| IVOD_ID |
152865 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152865 |
| 日期 |
2024-05-23 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-19-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
13 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-05-23T09:21:03+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-05-23T09:29:53+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:08:50 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d339c8d1909fa4532ba5c4950be88b6cf1f99622ceb699a780469f81d0044283274b52413cc438d05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
陳亭妃 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:21:03 - 09:29:53 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-05-23T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請公平交易委員會主任委員就「外送平台併購是否涉及限制競爭之調查程序、認定原則及對消費者權益影響之配套措施」進行報告，並備質詢。
二、審查：
（一）本院委員邱志偉等16人擬具「多層次傳銷管理法第十三條條文修正草案」案。
（二）本院委員楊瓊瓔等24人擬具「多層次傳銷管理法第十三條條文修正草案」案。） |
| gazette.lineno |
181 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
陳委員亭妃：（9時21分）謝謝召委，是不是請主委？ |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請李主委。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
李主任委員鎂：委員早。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
陳委員亭妃：主委，其實我們需要的是公平會的態度，我們沒有辦法對你們未來的審查結果如何做任何定調，但是現在它已經變成大家擔心的焦點，你也知道這個市場之大，對不對？當這兩家平台業者結合的時候，它變成一個超級大怪獸，這個超級大怪獸到底要去捍衛誰的權利、影響到誰的權利？這個部分，公平會如果沒有態度出來，大家現在非常擔心。你知道公平會的態度應該做到什麼嗎？你要保障到三方權益，哪三方的權益？第一，餐飲業者，為什麼要保障餐飲業者？他有可能選擇犧牲原有的客群、外送平台，然後解約，將成本轉嫁給消費者，然後調漲價格；消費者也會因為平台合併之後，外送平台會不會增加抽成，然後調漲，這樣他的消費成本就會增加；因為外送平台變成只有一家，所以當有人想要去做外送員時，只能為一家服務，沒有比較，那麼他的工作權、基本薪資及保障部分，要怎麼處理？這些都是公平會在審查這個併購案時要有的態度。我想請教一下主委，現在針對這三方，當你們在審這個併購案的時候，態度在哪裡？未來針對餐飲業者、針對消費者、針對外送員的權益，什麼是你們在審這個併購案之前應該有的態度？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
李主任委員鎂：謝謝委員提問，我剛才也提到這個案子我們審查的面向，剛才委員所關切的議題都會在我們的審查裡面…… |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
陳委員亭妃：可是你們沒有態度出來啊！你只有說這些面向會在你們審查裡面，可是你們的態度在哪裡？看不到態度，看不到態度，大家就會擔心啊！你說：會啊！委員你講的我們會審。但審查的標準、要審哪一個部分，以及你們的基底要抓在哪裡，我們看不到態度，看不到公平會的態度！你們現在的方向…… |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
李主任委員鎂：我想公平會…… |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
陳委員亭妃：我一樣一樣來，餐飲業者的權益呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
李主任委員鎂：餐飲業者的權益、消費者權益，還有外送員的權益，都是併購方將來的交易相對人，所以這些權益我們都會通盤來考量。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
陳委員亭妃：你就只有說考量，沒有把你的態度說出來，你的態度要放在哪裡？就像我剛才說的，今天萬一併購之後，他們在抽成上隨意調漲、隨意增加，沒有一個標準，如果他變成這樣一個模式，很多店家都說，有了外送平台之後，他們變成被逼加入，如果沒有加入一個平台，就沒有辦法有客戶，所以他們被逼加入平台，當併購之後，又只有一家，那就只能任他宰割，如果是這樣子，我們公平會的態度又在哪裡？ |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
李主任委員鎂：跟委員說明，因為現在是第一大跟第二大併在一起，整個市場結構很明顯改變了，國際上，包括本會，向來對於這樣的結合案一定是嚴格審查、嚴格把關。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
陳委員亭妃：對啊！主委，你一直都講很空洞，嚴格審查、嚴格把關，那到底要怎麼嚴格？你的嚴格標準在哪裡？我看不出來、聽不到你的嚴格在哪裡？主委，你跟我講嚴格在哪裡？你的標準在哪裡？針對這三方──餐飲業者、消費者、外送員未來要怎麼保障他們？對於第一跟第二大平台的併購，你的嚴格要在哪裡？你的嚴格審查的標準制定要抓在哪裡？ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
李主任委員鎂：我想審查部分，我們有一個審查原則跟準則，將來審查時，就是照這樣的一個…… |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
陳委員亭妃：原則跟準則在哪裡？是誰訂的？原則跟準則誰訂？公平會誰訂？ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
李主任委員鎂：公平會有…… |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
陳委員亭妃：誰訂？你們自己訂嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
李主任委員鎂：公平會有訂一些審查原則。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
陳委員亭妃：對啊！原則跟審查標準是你們訂嘛，對不對？那你要不要把原則跟標準跟大家報告一下，你會多嚴格，會多麼站在這三方──餐飲業者、消費者、外送員的權益上非常非常嚴格的把關？請問你們的標準在哪裡？你現在講不出來，完全都這麼地空洞，我們今天已經排了這樣一個希望你們來做說明的報告，結果卻是如此的空洞，難怪現在大家很擔心欸！我連在這裡都聽不到我想要聽的，我都沒有辦法安心的認為公平會會好好的審、嚴格的審這所謂的第一大跟第二大平台的併購案，你知道這多嚴重嗎？受影響的這三方會變成任人宰割欸！只要要進到這個行業，就必須符合他們的需要跟他們的要求，你如果讓他併購完之後，你就要求不了他，現在你自己的標準在哪裡你講不出來，而這個標準又是你們公平會自己訂的，你還講不出來，難怪大家會擔心啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
李主任委員鎂：我們審查的面向…… |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
陳委員亭妃：你們是不是會放水？ |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
李主任委員鎂：剛才我已經在報告裡說明了，有幾個面向都會一起綜合判斷，最後會評估整個整體經濟利益是不是大於限制競爭的不利益，這個都會逐項去審查。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
陳委員亭妃：主委，我真的不好意思說啦！看了你的報告，我只有覺得擔心、擔憂，因為要怎麼把關看不到，就只是空洞，而且不要忘了，這是第一大平台跟第二大平台，如果併購之後，等於是一個超級大怪獸，將來要怎麼做，如果沒有事先做好審慎的要求，我相信通過了之後，誰都奈何不了他，最後就是餐飲業者受害、消費者受害、外送員受害，這絕對不是我們要看到的，而且也應該不是你們公平會在這個把關當中，最後給大家失望的感覺。謝謝！ |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
主席：謝謝陳亭妃委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][1] |
接下來請鄭正鈐委員發言。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
202 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-1-19-13 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
邱議瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
陳亭妃 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
鄭正鈐 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
張嘉郡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
張啓楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
呂玉玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
謝衣鳯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
賴瑞隆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
邱志偉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
李坤城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
羅智強 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
黃珊珊 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
黃捷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
蔡易餘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
林岱樺 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
陳冠廷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
陳超明 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
153 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-05-23 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1134901 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1134901_00004 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
一、邀請公平交易委員會主任委員就「外送平台併購是否涉及限制競爭之調查程序、認定原則及
對消費者權益影響之配套措施」進行報告，並備質詢；二、審查：(一)本院委員邱志偉等16人擬
具「多層次傳銷管理法第十三條條文修正草案」案、(二)本院委員楊瓊瓔等24人擬具「多層次傳
銷管理法第十三條條文修正草案」案 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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陳亭妃主委 |
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18.519 |
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37.805 |
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其實我們需要的是公平會的態度我們沒有辦法去對於你們未來的審查結果如何去做任何的定調但是現在已經變成大家所擔心的一個焦點你也知道這個市場之大 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
39.786 |
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當這兩家平台業者做結合的時候他變成是一個超級大怪獸了這個超級大怪獸到底他要去捍衛到誰的權利然後會影響到誰的權利這個部分我們公平會如果沒有態度出來大家現在非常擔心 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
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你知道公平會的態度應該做到什麼?你要保障到三方的權益哪三方的權益?第一,餐飲業者為什麼要保障餐飲業者?他有可能啊選擇犧牲原有的客群然後外送平台然後解約然後加成本轉嫁給消費者然後去調漲價格 |
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然後呢消費者他也會因為他合併之後是不是外送平台會增加抽成然後調漲他的消費成本增加然後呢外送員他變成只有一家所以當他要去做外送員也只能為一家服務沒有比較那他的一個 |
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工作權的部分還有他的基本薪資的部分還有他的保障的部分要怎麼去處理這些都是我們公平會在審查這個併購案你要有一個態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
144.039 |
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164.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
那我想請教一下現在針對這三方當你在審這個併購案的時候我們的態度在哪裡未來我們針對餐飲業者針對消費者針對外送員他們的權益我們要怎麼在這個審併購案之前應該有態度主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
169.399 |
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194.734 |
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謝謝委員提問我剛才也提到說這個案子我們在審查的面向剛才委員所關切的這個意義都會在我們這個審查裡面可是你們沒有態度出來啊你們只有說這些面向會在你們裡面可是你們的態度在哪裡看不到態度看不到態度大家就會擔心你說會啊委員你講的我們會審 |
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196.465 |
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196.745 |
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陳亭妃 |
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219.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
244.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
參與業者的權益消費者權益還有外送員這些權益都是併購方將來的交易相對人所以這些權益我們都會通盤來考量不是你就只有說考量嗎你沒有把你的態度你的態度要放在哪裡就像我說的今天萬一併購之後然後他再抽成隨意 |
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條長隨意增加沒有一個標準那如果說今天他變成是一個模式很多店家都說因為有外送平台之後他們變成被逼沒有加入這個平台沒有辦法有客戶所以他們被逼如果加入這個平台當併購之後又只有一家就可以任他宰割 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
275.134 |
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299.569 |
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那如果這樣子的話我們公平會的態度又在哪裡跟委員說明因為現在是第一大跟第二大併在一起這整個市場結構很明顯是改變了那國際上包括本會向來對於這樣的一種結合案一定是嚴格審查嚴格把關對啊主委你一直都講很空洞嚴格審查嚴格把關那到底要怎麼嚴格 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
301.533 |
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323.482 |
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你的嚴格的標準在哪裡看不出來聽不到你的嚴格在哪裡主委你跟我講嚴格在哪裡你的標準在哪裡針對這三方餐飲業者消費者外送員未來要怎麼保障他們對於第一跟第二大平台的併購 |
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你的嚴格要在哪裡?你的嚴格審查要在標準制定抓在哪裡?我想這個審查我們有一個這個審查原則跟準則那將來在審查就是照這樣的一個好,原則跟準則在哪裡?誰定?原則跟準則誰定? |
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誰定?你們自己定嗎?對啊,原則跟審查的標準是你們定嘛,對不對? |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
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是啊那你要不要把這個原則跟標準跟大家報告一下你會多嚴格你會多麼的站在這三方餐飲業者消費者外送員的這樣的一個權益你們會非常非常非常嚴格的把關請問你們的標準在哪裡你現在講不出來完全都這麼的空洞 |
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385.2 |
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我們今天已經做了這樣的所謂希望你來做這樣的一個報告結果是如此的空洞難怪現在大家很擔心欸 |
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400.54 |
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416.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我連在這裡我都聽不到我想要聽的我都沒有辦法安心去認為我們公平會會好好的審嚴格的審這所謂第一大跟第二大平台的併購案你知道這多嚴重嗎這影響著這三方會變成任人宰割欸 |
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424.892 |
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444.648 |
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我只要要進到這個行業我就必須要符合他們的需要跟他們的要求你如果讓他併購完之後你要求不了他所以你自己的標準在哪裡嗎?你講不出來嗎?而且這個標準又是你們公民會自己定的啊你還講不出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
447.073 |
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450.775 |
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我真的不好意思說啦看了你的報告我只有覺得擔心擔憂因為怎麼把關看不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
476.707 |
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498.994 |
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就是空洞而且不要忘了這是我們的第一大平台跟第二大平台他如果併購之後等於是一個超級大怪獸他要怎麼做你如果沒有事先去做好一個審慎的要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
500.643 |
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523.689 |
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我相信過了之後誰都奈何不了他最後就是餐飲業者受害、消費者受害、外送員受害這絕對不是我們要看到的而且也應該不是你們公平會在這個把關當中最後給大家失望的感覺謝謝好 謝謝 |