| IVOD_ID |
152823 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152823 |
| 日期 |
2024-05-22 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-20-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期財政委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
13 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期財政委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-05-22T11:44:37+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-05-22T11:58:51+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:14:14 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ec526bb9f1bdce9d0bd4ef7f5a04d41c88b406ffa24a3d763b43bbf2d64d2017d538382fbf97c6c75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
王世堅 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:44:37 - 11:58:51 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-05-22T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆率所屬機關首長暨中央存款保險股份有限公司、監管相關機構有關之財團法人、臺灣證券交易所股份有限公司、臺灣期貨交易所股份有限公司、臺灣集中保管結算所股份有限公司等董事長、總經理列席業務報告，並備質詢。
【5月20日及22日二天一次會】） |
| gazette.lineno |
773 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
王委員世堅：（11時44分）謝謝主席，我請金管會鄭主委。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請彭主委。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
王委員世堅：抱歉、抱歉。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
主席：他是說正職的啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
王委員世堅：抱歉、抱歉、抱歉、抱歉，是彭主委、彭主委。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
彭主任委員金隆：王委員，你好。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
王委員世堅：沒想到我們第一次碰面，我就把你的姓氏稱呼錯誤。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][1] |
主委，其實我對你是滿有信心的，也滿了解的啦！我去看了你過去的一些著作還有你的主張，而我覺得你這些主張……比方說談到壽險業的狀況，你用了一個很好的形容，你說他們就如廬山煙雨啦！他們的複雜跟他們的多變就像廬山煙雨。而且你當時還批評過金管會，說他們圖利壽險業這些財團，因為他們發放了高股利，反而降低了壽險業的淨值──我覺得你那樣講是滿正確的喔！不能為了圖利壽險業的老闆們而綁架保戶的權益，當時你這麼說。當然，你現在上來這個位子了，可能會做一些修正，會比較實際地去了解。不過不管如何修正，我認為站在金管會的立場，本來就要嚴守這個看管的立場。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
彭主任委員金隆：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
王委員世堅：我就提比較傷腦筋的，今天跟你談兩件，一個就是租賃，也就是這些融資公司。我先前曾問你們，而且也要求金管會，針對融資公司是不是要有融資公司管理法？結果上禮拜、你上任前，金管會已經答復我說，現行規範對於融資公司已經有管理機制，所以他們拒絕定租賃專法就對啦！主委，我認為這個答復就是四個字：「胡說八道」！哪來的管理機制？沒有啊！金管會這個答復等於睜眼說瞎話。金管會明知道現在對融資公司的管理是推給經濟部，但主委你知道嗎？經濟部是依公司法管理這些融資公司，而公司法管理全國140萬家公司！ |
| gazette.blocks[8][1] |
我就講租賃業中最大的這三家好了：中租迪和、和潤、裕融，三家都上市啦！而且三家的經濟總規模占所有融資公司的比例超過95%。我姑且稱這三家公司叫薯條三兄弟啦！薯條三兄弟的惡劣，我想你應該時有所聞，那管理他們是對的啊！結果現在你轄下的金管會卻做這樣的答復。然後，在你今天的報告裡，你說現在針對這些融資公司、包括薯條三兄弟的BNPL─你只寫到BNPL─要加強管理，但是，彭主委，BNPL不是重點！為什麼？BNPL在薯條三兄弟6,800億年營業額裡面的占比連5%都不到！4.6%而已。最主要的是另外那95%，BNPL的總營業金額280億只佔4.6%，所以這個不是重點，另外那95%才是重點。但另外那95%就如我講的，都推給經濟部啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[8][2] |
現在我就舉例，有民眾權益受損、被薯條三兄弟剝削了，這樣的糾紛誰來協商呢？竟然是經濟部！而經濟部對於協商也推得滿乾淨的，表面上來協商，卻說經濟部的協商是針對自然人，對於法人，他們是不協商的。所以，這很荒唐。如果你查一下薯條三兄弟，如同我剛剛講的，在他們的放款額度裡面，法人融資金額最大、占比超過一半，金額超過3,560億！個人的呢？2,800億。所以經濟部一推，就超過一半他統統不管！而其他由他管的，也是管得一蹋糊塗。我是說債務協商的部分喔！此時此刻，融資放款這樣的金融公司本來就該由金管會來管，不是嗎？畢竟你下面有銀行局、下面有檢查局、有這麼多重要的專業金融人才可以管理！ |
| gazette.blocks[8][3] |
我再講下去。這兩、三個月，我一直問銀行局，到底包含九大行庫跟這些民營銀行在內，銀行業總計放款了多少金額給薯條三兄弟？欸！你們來個拒絕答復！你們說，根據銀行法第四十六條，這個問題你們不能答復。結果─彭主委，我在問你們的同時，另外私下到個別公股行庫去問，我連民營行庫都去問，現在查出了總金額，光是公股行庫放款給薯條三兄弟的總金額就有4,854億，而且你們還給予另外額度，總額是8,921億欸！他們沒有全拿滿啦！拿了大概五成五。然後，他們的借款利息是多少？1.748%。1.74%的利率！ |
| gazette.blocks[8][4] |
主委，你認為這有道理嗎？銀行業貸款給有房子擔保的新青安貸款，利率是1.77%，這已經算低的。軍公教信用貸款─也是有房屋抵押的喔！利率是2.53%！咦？貸款給薯條三兄弟的利率比這兩大政府重要政策要優惠的方向還要低！好，你借給他們1.7%，結果他們轉手借給需要的民眾，借18%！這樣對嗎？如果銀行體系，尤其公營行庫，有這四、五千億的資金借給薯條三兄弟，那這些金額乾脆直接借給需要的民眾就好啊！幹嘛借給租賃公司呢？不是這樣嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][5] |
租賃公司對於借款需求大眾們，吸他們的血，收他們的高利貸、高違約金、高手續費，吸他們的血欸！這是多可惡的事情！結果金管會一推四五六，統統不管，連問個金額都不能問，很奇怪欸！我覺得光是基於這一點，就應該好好整頓銀行局。這個局長是誰？你好好查一下啦！既然你上來了，你可以重新任命嘛！就是站在你後面那位嗎？啊！抱歉，我不知道他有來。 |
| gazette.blocks[8][6] |
主委，你看著辦。這等於變相地對薯條三兄弟……我用四個字形容，銀行局是變相地助紂為虐！不是嗎？你們默許銀行─尤其是公營行庫、九大公營行庫放5,000億的放款給薯條三兄弟，讓他們為惡，不是這樣嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][7] |
抱歉，主席，我再簡單問，因為是新主委，我再多用個兩分鐘，跟他講一下ETF的問題。你們有稍微注意到ETF，這點很好，但是對於ETF，我認為首先要糾正的是關於他們的名稱啦！他們在名稱上都自稱「高股息」、「高獲利」、「高收益」，甚至把「臺灣價值」加進去、把巴菲特這些名人都拿來當成他們的廣告用語。最主要的是他們現在竟然還大剌剌地透過主流的電視新聞播這些廣告、假借新聞來欺騙，用新聞報導的方式說靠ETF月賺20萬、秒進帳六位數，還買新聞報導聲稱買ETF大賺，說沒有工作、但一個月有11萬8,000元的股息。還特地說沒工作喔！那是為什麼？因為他買了ETF：00919。買00929的也不錯，每次配息，股息以0.13元計算，每個月可以領19萬5,000元！這些訊息公開、大剌剌地在主流電視媒體以新聞報導方式傳達，主委，你認為這些是不是該管？現在的管理只憑這些投信投顧公會、由他們公會自律，這種自律一點效果都沒有！自律完全沒有罰則。連你罰它，它都可能不怕了，更何況沒有罰則？不是嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
彭主任委員金隆：有罰則。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
王委員世堅：沒有罰則，那就是說一說、用勸導的就對啦？道德勸說就對了？天啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[10][1] |
主委，你簡單答復一下好嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
彭主任委員金隆：報告委員，他們的自律規範有罰則啦！至於有關融資公司的部分，有些地方我們會再跟委員報告，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
王委員世堅：啊？這麼短？ |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
彭主任委員金隆：因為時間不夠。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
王委員世堅：我們主席同意、多給了兩分鐘欸！ |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
彭主任委員金隆：剛剛提到網紅還有ETF名稱的部分，我們會注意啦！再來就是有關剛剛提到融資公司的一些訊息內容，我們再向委員報告。 |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
王委員世堅：這跟我看到你過去的著作、你的一些言論……當然你那時候是對壽險業講的啦！但奇怪，鬆緊度怎麼差這麼多？我希望你能夠用同一個標準。你對壽險業的看法很好，但請你先移轉你這個關注力以及你的專業─先移轉到融資公司、薯條三兄弟，跟這些投信投顧他們所發行的ETF，可不可以？ |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
彭主任委員金隆：我會關注，謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
主席：王委員，時間到。沒關係啦！新來的，稍微輕鬆一下。 |
| gazette.blocks[18][1] |
下一位發言請楊瓊瓔委員。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
332 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-1-20-13 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
羅明才 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
林德福 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
吳秉叡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
顏寬恒 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
賴惠員 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
郭國文 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
李彥秀 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
黃珊珊 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
李坤城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
王世堅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
葛如鈞 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
陳玉珍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
林楚茵 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
吳春城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
鍾佳濱 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
謝衣鳯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[21] |
張嘉郡 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
263 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-05-22 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1134901 |
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| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆率所屬機關首長暨中央存款保險股份有限公司、監管相
關機構有關之財團法人、臺灣證券交易所股份有限公司、臺灣期貨交易所股份有限公司、臺灣集
中保管結算所股份有限公司等董事長、總經理列席業務報告，並備質詢 |
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謝謝主席我請金管會的正主委彭主委抱歉抱歉抱歉抱歉抱歉彭主委彭主委王委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
23.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
46.638 |
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沒想到我們第一次碰面我就把你的姓氏稱呼錯誤喔那其實諸位我對你是蠻有信心的也蠻了解的啦就是說我去看了過去你的一些著作還有你的主張那我覺得你這些主張齁比方說你講到 |
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48.154 |
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68.966 |
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你說受險業啊他們的狀況你用一個很好的形容你說他們啊就如廬山煙雨啦他們的複雜跟他們的多變就像廬山煙雨而且你當時還批評過 |
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71.4 |
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90.354 |
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金管會說他們圖利了受險業這些財團因為他們發放了高股利反而降低了受險業的淨值我覺得你那樣講是蠻正確的喔不能說為了圖利受險業的老闆們然後去綁架了保護的權益那當時你這麼說 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
97.95 |
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126.241 |
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那麼當然啦你現在上來的這個位置可能你會做一些修正你會比較實際的去了解不過不管如何修正我認為站在金管會的立場本來就要嚴守這個看管的立場那麼我就提到說比較三老金的我今天跟你談兩件一個 |
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146.269 |
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就是租賃這些融資公司那當然這個我先前問你們而且我也要求金管委就是說是不是針對融資公司我們要有融資公司管理法結果上禮拜 |
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147.878 |
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148.118 |
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沒有啊! |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
178.424 |
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201.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
金管委這一個答覆等於睜眼說瞎話金管委明知道現在對融資公司的管理是推給經濟部欸 主委你知道嗎經濟部是依公司法管這一些融資公司公司法管理全國140萬家公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
204.312 |
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212.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
我就講租賃最大的這三家好了中租敵額、合潤、育融三家都上市啦三家經濟的總規模佔了所有融資公司超過95%我姑且稱這三家叫鼠條三兄弟啦齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
226.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
243.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
數條三兄弟的二列我相信你應該是有所聞那麼我們來管理他是對的啊結果你現在轄下的金管會他做這樣的答覆然後在你今天的報告你說這個報告你說啊這個現在要來針對這些融資公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
250.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
257.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
鼠條三兄弟BMPL你只寫掉BMPL要來加強管理但是彭主委BMPL不是重點為什麼BMPL在鼠條三兄弟年營額裡面6800億裡面占連5%都不到4.6%而已最主要的是他另外那95%占 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
281.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
288.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
他的總營業金額281億4.6%這個不是重點另外那95%才是重點而另外那些95%就我講的啊都推給經濟部啦現在我就舉這個我們民眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
305.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
328.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
全力受損啦!被屬條三兄弟剝削啦!那麼這樣子的糾紛誰來協商呢?竟然是經濟部那經濟部他的協商他也是推得蠻乾淨的他表面上來協商但是他說啊我 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
331.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
335.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
經濟部的協商是對自然人那對於法人啊他們他們是不協商的所以這很荒唐如果你去查一下這個薯條三兄弟他們的放款的我剛講的額度裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
358.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
365.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
法人融資占金額占最大占超過一半3560億個人的2800億然後經濟部一推欸 超過一半的貪汪他不管其他他管的也是管得一塌糊塗 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
379.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
395.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我是說債務協商的部分喔所以此時此刻本來融資放款這樣的金融公司本來就該我們金管會來管不是嗎你下面有銀行局你下面有檢察局你有這麼多的重要的這些專業金融人才可以來管理然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
407.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
425.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我再講一下說結果這兩三個月來我一直問銀行局說你們到底啊我們九大公民銀行戶跟這些民營銀行總計我們銀行業到底放款了多少金額給鼠條山兄弟 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
426.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
445.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
你們來個拒絕答覆你們說啊這個根據銀行法第46條這個你們不能答覆結果彭主委我在問你們的同時我另外私下個別公股行庫去問我連民營行庫都去問我現在查出了總經理光公股行庫啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
453.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
470.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
放款給屬遼山兄弟總金額4854億而且你們還另外額度總額是8921億欸他沒有錢拿滿啊他拿了大概5成路然後他的借款率是多少1.7481.74的利率 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
482.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
506.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那個主委你認為這有道理嗎我們銀行業貸款給有房子擔保的喔新青安貸款1.77這已經算低了然後軍公教信用貸款也是房屋有抵押的喔2.53貸款給鼠條山兄弟的逼 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
514.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
521.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
這兩大政府重要政策要優惠的方向還要踢還要你借給他1.7%結果他轉手借給需要的民眾他借18%這對嗎?如果我們銀行體系尤其供應行庫 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
537.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
561.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
有這四五千億的資金來借給薯條三兄弟那乾脆這些金額直接借給需要的民眾就好啦幹嘛這個注定公司呢?不是這樣嗎?注定公司吸我們借款需求大眾們吸他們的血收他們的高利貸、高額約金、高手續費 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
567.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
568.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
就在你後面那一位嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
596.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
597.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
啊抱歉我不知道他有那個主委你看著辦那麼這等於變相的對 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
610.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
628.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
鼠條三兄弟我用四個字形容銀行局變相的助纣為虐不是嗎你們默許銀行尤其是公營航庫九大公營航庫放五千億的放款給鼠條三兄弟讓他們去為惡不是這樣嗎那另外 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
637.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
663.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
抱歉喔主席我再簡單因為新主委這個齁我再多個兩分鐘我跟他講一下說ETF你們有稍微注意到ETF這個很好但是這個ETF齁我認為首先要糾正的就是關於他們的名稱啦他們名稱都自稱喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
665.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
681.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
高股息、高獲利、高收益甚至把臺灣價值加進去把巴菲特這些名人都拿來當他們廣告的用語最主要他們現在竟然還大剌剌的透過 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
683.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
710.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
主流的電視新聞播這些廣告這些假借新聞來欺騙用新聞報導新聞的報導的方式說靠ETF月賺20萬說秒進帳六位數然後買這個新聞報導ETF是買ETF大賺說啊沒有工作但是一個月有11萬8千元的股息 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
711.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
740.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
沒工作喔還特定說那這個為什麼說他買了ETF00919買00929的也不錯每次配息啊股息0.13元算每個月可領195,000元這公開大大大的債我們主流電視媒體以新聞報導的方式所以我認為主委你認為這些是不是該管現在的管理只憑他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
742.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
759.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
這些投信投顧工會他們工會去自律這個自律一點效果都沒有自律完全沒有罰則你罰他他都可能不怕了更何況沒有罰則不是嗎沒有罰則那說一說用勸導的就對了道德勸說就對天啊所以那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
767.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
779.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
是不是主委你簡單答覆一下好嗎報告委員剛剛的是他們治理規範是有罰則啦剛剛就是有關融資公司的部分有些地方我們再跟那個委員再報告謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
782.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
783.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
王世堅 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
803.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
825.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
這跟我看到你過去的著作你的一些言論當然你那時候是對壽險講的啦怎麼奇怪這個鬆緊度差這麼多齁我希望你能夠同一個標準很好你對壽險業的看法很好請你先移轉你這個關注力以及你的專業那麼先移轉到 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
828.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
840.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
董事公司、鼠條三兄弟跟這些投信投股他們所發行的ETF可不可以...會來關注,謝謝,謝謝委員謝謝王委員,時間到沒關係啦,那個新來的要謹慎一點謝謝現在的訪問是楊瓊英、楊委員 |