| IVOD_ID |
152607 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152607 |
| 日期 |
2024-05-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-20-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期財政委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
12 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期財政委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-05-16T10:38:43+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-05-16T10:47:58+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:09:15 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/069b0cf7e017bc30cb5bad457d2a1302be5ec193467b1025e01ba30ddb4afe0fc7ebe4e63c7622145ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
李坤城 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:38:43 - 10:47:58 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-05-16T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：審查行政院函請審議「海關進口稅則部分稅則修正草案」案。
【5月15日及16日二天一次會】） |
| gazette.lineno |
610 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
李委員坤城：（10時38分）謝謝主席，我們請次長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：有請阮次長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
阮次長清華：委員早。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
李委員坤城：次長好。部長呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
阮次長清華：因為今天是陳院長的最後一次院會，所以部長去參加院會。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
李委員坤城：本來有很多問題要請教部長…… |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
阮次長清華：他等一下會過來。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
李委員坤城：部長和次長都留任了啊？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
阮次長清華：部長等一下就會回來，那邊結束以後，他就會過來。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
李委員坤城：好，那我先請教一下有關稅收的問題。有一則報導的標題是「證交稅收寫同期新高」，根據蔡英文總統任內最後一個賦稅收入月報，不只是證交稅，包含綜所稅、證交稅、貨物稅、土增稅等等，都創下同期新高，反映蔡總統執政8年來經濟成長的結果，我覺得是一個非常完美的ending。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][1] |
我們的部長和次長也都會繼續留下來，請教一下，其實本席剛上任的時候，你們也有來跟我做過說明，就是我們的賦稅都超收，財政部在113年的賦稅收入編列有特別修正參考的因素，把以往的經濟成長率改成其他指數，希望能讓預算數和實際徵收數相吻合，以不超過5%為目標。我們每年賦稅都超收，這當然是好事，代表臺灣的經濟成長，所以稅收增加，但是對財政單位來講，我們認為你們的預估應該還要再更準確一點，因為如果預估再準確一點的話，我們在編預算的時候就可以掌握大概收多少錢、做多少事情。這幾年看起來的結果是你們都比預估的還要再少一點、你們的心態都比較偏保守，當然，最後稅收是增加了，但是相對應的，我們希望如果你們能預估得比較準，那麼多出來的那些預算其實還可以用來做更多的事情。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
阮次長清華：謝謝委員指教。我完全贊同委員的意見，就是希望我們的預算編列能夠更精準。當然，現在從1月到4月看起來，像我們的營業稅、證交稅或者是綜所稅的確是比原來的預算數要多，但是大家也知道，5月份是結算申報期，我們通常在估稅收的成長情形就是看5月份的結算申報，另外一個是9月份的暫繳申報，所以大概5月份結束以後，我們就知道那個方向和趨勢。當然，如果可以的話，我們當然是希望稅收能夠增加，但是也要合理。因為上次很多委員都有關切這個問題，所以我們就成立了一個稅收估測小組，也委外研究，希望能夠做出一個估測模型，希望未來在預算編列上能夠更加精準。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
李委員坤城：對呀！你們上次有跟我提到你們會重做一個模型出來，你們那時的稅收預估指標，在綜合所得稅的部分是把本來的經濟成長率改成基本工資調整、政策利率調升；營業稅的部分是把經濟成長率改成民間消費成長率；證券交易稅方面雖然維持日均成交值，但是選擇區間不同；營利事業所得稅則是把經濟成長率改成出口、工業生產指數。你們提供的資料大概是這樣。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
阮次長清華：這是其中一部分。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
李委員坤城：過去都是從經濟成長率這個比較粗略的數字來估。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
阮次長清華：對、對。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
李委員坤城：現在改成這樣子。這是去年改，還是今年改？ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
阮次長清華：是去年的時候，因為那時的實徵數比預算數多很多，所以我們就開始認真在檢討這個問題。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
李委員坤城：所以理論上去年就改成這個模型？ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
阮次長清華：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
李委員坤城：所以今年在估的時候應該會比較準一點嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
阮次長清華：這個有時候老實講，我跟委員報告，其實我們的政經變動真的很快，比如說像去年，我們營所稅和綜合所得稅其實稅基是去年的，去年上市（櫃）的獲利其實是衰退27%，所以我們那時候想說今年的稅收可能會稍微少一點，綜所稅也會有類似的狀況，因為受配的股利也少了，所以可能會減少，但問題是今年經濟成長率目前的預估是3.43%，還可能再往上修，所以變成今年像營業稅或者是證交稅，現在股市好到不行，還有像剛才提到的…… |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
李委員坤城：這個你們都沒有預期到嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
阮次長清華：有預期，但是沒想到那麼好，好到…… |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
李委員坤城：所以你們也沒預期到今年第1季的經濟成長率會這麼高？ |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
阮次長清華：好到會超過2萬1,000點。我是覺得我們以前最高也不過1萬8,000點，那個時候能夠回到1萬8,000點已經非常不錯了，但是它繼續往上…… |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
李委員坤城：這就是民進黨執政的成績啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
阮次長清華：這個很好，但我們希望估得更準。 |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
李委員坤城：對啦！執政好、經濟成長率高、稅收增加，這當然是我們執政的成績，但是另外一部分，你們預估的指標要算得準一點。 |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
阮次長清華：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
李委員坤城：你剛剛有提到5、6月，我們現在在報稅嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
阮次長清華：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
李委員坤城：報稅之後，申報的結果大概會決定今年收入大概的情況，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
阮次長清華：大致的趨勢可以掌握。 |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
李委員坤城：現在是5月中，現在報稅的情況怎樣？ |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
阮次長清華：目前報稅的狀況，到上禮拜五的資料，大概280萬戶。 |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
李委員坤城：占多少？ |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
阮次長清華：大概一半。 |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
李委員坤城：一半也是差不多啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
阮次長清華：跟委員報告，依照我們的習慣，高所得的都擠在最後幾天，所以前面申報的有很多是退稅的，當然也有繳稅的，但是高所得大部分都集中在後面，所以我們要看到最後面才會比較清楚。 |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
李委員坤城：5月報稅，數字哪時候會出來？ |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
阮次長清華：最慢大概6月，因為有一個整理期，例如5月31日申報，稅收不會那麼快進來，大概六月十幾號，上旬、中旬那時候就會確定了。 |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
李委員坤城：你看前4個月有關營業稅、證所稅、土增稅都增加，預期稅收也會增加才對啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
阮次長清華：希望啦，我沒辦法肯定，因為最大宗的還沒出來，現在這邊講的都是比較小型的。 |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
李委員坤城：按照前4個月的年增率，次長有沒有信心今年的賦稅收入超過10%？ |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
阮次長清華：我通常不太講這個，因為會增加自然就會增加，不是用信心就會增加，它有那些…… |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
李委員坤城：次長，我的意思是我們看數字，也不是說有沒有信心，我是說按照1至4月的稅收來看，因為當初你跟我們講稅收的估算不要超過5%的上限。 |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
阮次長清華：是，委員的指教真的非常好，我們希望朝這個方向走。 |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
李委員坤城：今年的稅收又增加了，可能最後又會超收10%以上。 |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
阮次長清華：現在真的不確定，但是我們再觀察。 |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
李委員坤城：稅收增加是好事，我認為對國家整體來講是好事，但是對財政部來講，估算預算數準確也很重要，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
阮次長清華：是，我們來努力，謝謝委員指教。 |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
李委員坤城：謝謝次長，謝謝主席。 |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
主席：謝謝李坤城委員質詢。 |
| gazette.blocks[52][1] |
接著請伍麗華委員質詢。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
350 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-1-20-12 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
郭國文 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
林德福 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
顏寬恒 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
吳秉叡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
賴惠員 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
陳玉珍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
黃珊珊 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
王世堅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
李坤城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
李彥秀 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
羅明才 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
1 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-05-16 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1134602 |
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1134602_00002 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
審查行政院函請審議「海關進口稅則部分稅則修正草案」案（後接第三冊） |
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SPEAKER_01 |
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549.39659375 |
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550.96596875 |
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SPEAKER_00 |
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550.42596875 |
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550.51034375 |
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SPEAKER_00 |
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550.96596875 |
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SPEAKER_01 |
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SPEAKER_00 |
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554.62784375 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
5.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
5.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
有請董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
12.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
35.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
委員長市長好部長呢部長因為今天是這樣因為最後陳院長最後一次院會所以他就參加那個院會很多問題想要請教這個部長可是因為部長跟市長都留任部長等一下就會回來他結束以後他就會過來那我先請教一下這個有關這個稅收的問題先看一個報導 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
43.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
60.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
政交稅寫同期的新高這個是蔡英文總統任內最後一個負稅收入的一個月報然後呢不只是只有這一個政交稅啦你包含這個眾所稅、政交稅、戶務稅、土增稅等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
61.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
87.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
都創下同期的新高反映蔡總統執政8年來經濟成長的結果我覺得是一個非常完美的結尾我們的部長還有次長也都會繼續留下來請教一下這個其實在我剛上任的時候你們也有來跟本席做過說明就是我們付稅都超收然後財政部在113年的付稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
90.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
90.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
李坤城議員．李坤城議員． |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
118.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
144.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
但是對於財政單位來講我們認為說你們的預估應該還要再更準確一點因為如果預估再準確一點的話我們在編預算的時候其實掌握說大概可以收多少錢我們可以做多少事情後來這幾年看起來的結果就是說你們比預估的都還要再少一點你們的心態都比較偏保守當然最後這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
146.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
148.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
謝謝委員指教 完全贊同委員的意見 希望我們的預算的編列能夠更精準 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
167.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
181.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
當然現在從1月到4月看起來就是說像我們的營業稅或者是證交稅或者是綜合稅的確是比原來的預算稅要多但是現在大家知道現在5月份是這個結算申報期 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
182.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
211.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
我們通常在估預算就稅收的這個成長的情形大概就看5月份的結算申報還有另外一個是9月份的站腳申報所以我們在5月份看結束結束以後大概知道那個方向那個趨勢當然我們當然希望稅稅收當然就是說如果可以的話當然就能夠增加但是也要也要也要合理所以我們也上一次很多委員都有關切這個問題所以我們就成立一個稅收估測小組 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
212.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
213.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
﹑李坤城委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
230.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
246.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
除了這個本來的經濟成長率把它改成這個基本工資調整還有政策利率調升嘛然後營業稅這部分呢這個經濟成長率呢也這個改成這個民間消費成長率然後在證券交易稅這方面呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
247.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
248.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
昨年改還是今年改? |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
269.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
270.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
昨年改成這個模型﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
287.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
306.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
所以說你今年再估的時候應該會比較準一點嗎?這個有時候老實講我跟委員報告齁其實我們的政經的變動真的很快我們本來預期是比如說像去年我們銀索稅跟中央索稅其實是用去年的稅基是去年的 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
306.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
322.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那去年的上市櫃其實它的獲利其實是衰退27%的所以我們那時候想說可能今年的稅收就可能會稍微有一點稍微小一點稍微少一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
322.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
346.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那中手稅有類似的狀況因為它受配的股列少了所以可能會減少但是問題是今年的經濟成長率目前的預估是3.43還可能再往上修所以變成就是說今年的像營業稅或者是證交稅像股市好的不行還有像剛才提到的這個你們都沒有預期到嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
348.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
351.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
所以你們也沒預期到說今年第一屆經濟成長會這麼高?這就是民進黨執政的成績啊? |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
372.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
388.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
對啦就是說執政好那我們經濟成長率高稅收增加這當然是我們執政成績但是另外一部分就是說你們估啦你們這個預估的指標齁這個要算得準一點那所以說齁你剛有提到說齁這個五六月的我們現在是在報稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
390.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
392.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
大致的趨勢可以掌握了目前報稅大概是到上禮拜五了,我沒有最新的,大概280萬戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
415.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
417.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
五月份申報報稅數字哪時候會出來? |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
446.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
473.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
最慢大概6月因為他還有一個整理期整理期比如5月底我5月31日申報那稅稅不會那麼快進來所以他會到6月大概6月10幾號6月上旬中旬那時候就會確定了那所以你看我們剛才所有的這一個這個前4個月齁這個有關於說營業稅啦鎮守稅啦這個土增稅什麼都增加啦那預期啦預期稅收也會增加才對啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
474.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
477.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
按照前四個月的年增率,那次長有沒有信心今年的賦稅會 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
492.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
517.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
這個收入要超過這個百分之十我覺得 通常我不太講這個啦 因為為什麼 因為會增加他就自然會增加不是用信心就他會增加他自然 他有那個 我的意思是說我們是看數字啦 當然也不是說有沒有信心啦 我的意思是說你按照這個前一季 這個一到四個月的這個稅收來看 那我們是希望說因為你當初跟我們講就是說 你們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
519.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
536.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
稅收的估算也不要超過百分之五為一個上限我來講說今年稅收又增加了可能最後又會超收百分之十以上真的現在不確定但是我們在觀察稅收增加是好事我認為對國家整體來講是好事但是對財政部來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
546.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
552.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
姑算運輸,這個運算數齁,準確也很重要啦好不好是我們來努力,謝謝委員指導 |