| IVOD_ID |
152558 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152558 |
| 日期 |
2024-05-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-35-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第20次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
20 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第20次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-05-15T12:47:06+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-05-15T12:57:33+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:27 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7786a6f84a6532c0b5f677e927b663f0ad847f93a84224fadc2a0f44cf1b72c566a45ae5360df2805ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
邱志偉 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:47:06 - 12:57:33 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-05-15T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長吳釗燮報告「推動國際社會聲援我國參與世界衛生大會（WHA）執行現況」，併請衛生福利部列席，並備質詢。） |
| gazette.lineno |
994 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
邱委員志偉：（12時47分）好，謝謝召委，有請敬愛的外交部吳釗燮吳部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請吳部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
吳部長釗燮：邱委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
邱委員志偉：吳部長，我們認識很久了，是不是？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
吳部長釗燮：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
邱委員志偉：我們是老朋友嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
吳部長釗燮：多謝你！ |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
邱委員志偉：「林北」就不可能在這個地方討論「林北」的語言學定義是什麼，「林北」是外交政策嗎？「林北」14年來就不可能在外交委員會討論「林北」對外交政策的影響，那是語言學的問題。日語裡也有「おれ」，你知道「おれ」是什麼意思嗎？「おれ」是跟好朋友講說「我」的意思，每一個國家都有它的語言，不同的場合有不同表達方式，「わたし」也是，「ぼく」也是，「おれ」也是，不同的場合嘛！在鄉下，我高中開始就「林北」、「林北」，這是拉近距離感、兄弟間的感情，我們是不是兄弟？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
吳部長釗燮：嗯！ |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
邱委員志偉：我說「林北」，你會生氣嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
吳部長釗燮：不會。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
邱委員志偉：對啊！你當外交部長多久了？ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
吳部長釗燮：6年多了。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
邱委員志偉：6年多了，我在立法院將近14年，13年多了，我第1屆當委員的時候，還是在野黨，差不多是12年前，我也是站在這裡，當外交及國防委員會召委，雖然是反對黨，不是執政黨，但是對國家的政策、國防、外交，大家都有高度的共識，大家都會尊重主席，譬如我對馬文君召委的一些作法無法認同，但是我剛剛上台質詢的時候，我也向他行禮，這是一種禮貌、一種倫理。我以前當召委的時候，現在很多年輕的委員，他們都很專業，但是那時候他們可能還是高中生或大學生，基本的禮貌、禮數都要有，對官員的尊重、質詢，行政、立法都是對等的，針對你的施政我提出質詢，質詢要有道理，不能無厘頭、不能謾罵、不能情緒性、不能咆哮。我過去十幾年跟你互動，有咆哮過嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
吳部長釗燮：沒有。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
邱委員志偉：我秉持一個原則，「林北」秉持一個溫良恭儉讓的原則，歷屆部長裡面，我最尊重的是陳唐山部長和吳釗燮部長，雖然過去一段時間，6年多了，幾年？ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
吳部長釗燮：6年2個月。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
邱委員志偉：很辛苦啦！做外交部長很辛苦啦！壓力隨時都會來，可能半夜都睡不好，所以我認為你是一個稱職、有為有守的部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
吳部長釗燮：謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
邱委員志偉：你有你的專業，你有你的堅持，所以我要送你一個……不要說是我的墨寶，我寫的字啦！你參考一下！心正，邪魔就不入，所以心要正，邪魔就怕你怕得要死。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
吳部長釗燮：真的謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
邱委員志偉：不會！應該的，其實你也非常辛苦，任何外交的工作都非常辛苦，但是為了國家、為了人民，欸！賢者啊！賢者求實事、做實事，這個弱者啊，博聲量。很可惜，立法院賢者愈來愈少，所以我覺得在國會應該要很認真，針對各項政策好好來討論。你今天的報告裡面具體的推案作為，包括所有可以做的事情，如爭取國際友邦認同、籌組「世衛行動團」赴日內瓦，還有讓立法部門以多元方式表達支持、國際輿論等等，每一年、每一年的成果都還不錯，都逐漸累積，對吧？那為什麼我們還是沒辦法加入WHA？當然，一般常識會認為一定是一國一人在擋，一國就是中華人民共和國，對不對？一人就是那個幹事長，幹事長的任期到什麼時候？ |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
吳部長釗燮：到2027年。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
邱委員志偉：還那麼久喔？ |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
吳部長釗燮：嗯！ |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
邱委員志偉：但是我們還是要持續不斷努力，在努力的過程中，我們可以建立更多友我力量，培養更多年輕人對這個問題的關注，譬如我們在世界各國的校園有很多留學生，我們可以透過留學生的力量去影響他們國家，因為年輕人的聲音很大，所以要加強年輕人對這個問題的問題意識，以及投入臺灣加入WHA的相關作為，不然我看很多我們可操之在我的部分應該全部都做了，而非操之在己的部分，就是我剛剛說的中國及譚德塞，這個部分你怎麼努力就是沒辦法突破，不是這樣嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
吳部長釗燮：我想委員說得非常對，就是完全操之在我們的部分，我們要再回頭檢視還有什麼沒有做好、沒有做周全的地方，剛才委員提到的海外留學生及海外僑民部分，我們有在努力，但可能還可以再加強。有關於動員國際友人的部分，在過去這幾年，我們有看到一些具體成果，譬如聯合進洽的官員層級以及人數都在增加當中，幫我們寫推薦函的這些人也在增加當中，幫我們公開講話或者間接講話的，也都在增加當中，這是具體方向，所以雖然這一條路有比較辛苦，但是…… |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
邱委員志偉：但也是要做。 |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
吳部長釗燮：也是要繼續拚下去。 |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
邱委員志偉：但是你所做的都會留下痕跡，你所做的都會成為一個累積，慢慢累積到一個程度，效果就會出現，而且中國也不是不能改變，中國隨時在改變，他們內政的問題、經濟的問題、權力鬥爭的問題、美中鬥爭的問題，隨時都會發生變動，所以在國際的影響力也隨時會降低，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
吳部長釗燮：對，尤其是他們經濟能力下滑的過程。 |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
邱委員志偉：我們把操之在己的部分做到極致、做到滿，待適當時機，就可以達陣。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
吳部長釗燮：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
邱委員志偉：要有耐心，還要有信心，結合海內外所有力量，結合所有年齡層的力量，尤其是年輕人，年輕人在海外對國家的認同讓人很感動，中國大使在哈佛演講，我們臺灣人就在那邊嗆聲，這個很讓人敬佩，所以你要鼓舞我們的年輕人，他們的DNA就是愛臺灣這塊土地，捨不得臺灣在國際社會受到中國的欺負。如果我要說，可能還要再說個2小時，但2小時可能會耽誤時間，因為今天是你最後一天嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
吳部長釗燮：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
邱委員志偉：你雖然轉換跑道，但一樣是在國安體系，而且擔任的位子越重要，你還要整合，以你的經驗，我相信會做得很好。 |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
吳部長釗燮：謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
邱委員志偉：我肯定你過去6年對國家、人民的付出，我再強調一次，做任何工作，心若正，邪魔不入；心若正，妖魔鬼怪看到你，都會閃一邊去！ |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
吳部長釗燮：多謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
邱委員志偉：所以語重心長啦！國家安全跟國防、外交，臺灣是個特殊的處境…… |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
吳部長釗燮：不管在什麼位子上，我都會努力。 |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
邱委員志偉：不管任何黨派，要以國家為念、要以人民為念、要以子子孫孫為念，不能因一己之私、一黨之利…… |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
吳部長釗燮：沒有錯。 |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
邱委員志偉：在那邊博聲量。 |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
主席：好，謝謝喔！ |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
邱委員志偉：再半分鐘啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
莊委員瑞雄：好啦！換我了啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
邱委員志偉：最後一天了。部長，我相信所有你們的司、處長都很認真，說實在，外交人員真的很辛苦，有時候要面臨新的環境、新的變局，而且有時候又離鄉背井，對於外交官的福利要增加…… |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
吳部長釗燮：我會力挺他們。 |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
邱委員志偉：要鼓舞他們的士氣…… |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
吳部長釗燮：會。 |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
邱委員志偉：要瞭解他們隨時在外館的每一個狀況，讓所有外交部同仁以作為中華民國外交官為榮。 |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
吳部長釗燮：是，一定，一定，謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
主席：好，謝謝邱委員。接下來請莊瑞雄委員上臺質詢。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
146 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-1-35-20 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
馬文君 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
邱志偉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
徐巧芯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
羅廷瑋 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
林楚茵 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
羅智強 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
羅美玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
王定宇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
陳永康 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
蘇巧慧 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
陳冠廷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
黃仁 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
洪申翰 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
林憶君 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
沈伯洋 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
黃秀芳 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
陳菁徽 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
莊瑞雄 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
李坤城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[21] |
吳思瑤 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[22] |
郭昱晴 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[23] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[24] |
范雲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[25] |
陳培瑜 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[26] |
王正旭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[27] |
林月琴 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[28] |
牛煦庭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[29] |
翁曉玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[30] |
葉元之 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[31] |
張雅琳 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[32] |
林思銘 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
59 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-05-15 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1134501 |
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1134501_00003 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
邀請外交部部長吳釗燮報告「推動國際社會聲援我國參與世界衛生大會（ WHA）執行現況」，併
請衛生福利部列席，並備質詢 |
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好,謝謝趙薇,有請親愛的外交部吳釗燮吳部長請吳部長邱委員好我們實在很久了,我們老朋友謝謝你臨北就不可能在這個地方討論臨北語言學的定義在什麼地方臨北有外交政策嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
40.047 |
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66.437 |
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臨北就不可能在14年來,臨北就不可能在外交委員會討論臨北對外交政策的影響,那是語言學問題。領域來,裡面也有阿蕾,阿蕾是什麼意思?阿蕾是後面那些人說我阿蕾阿蕾,每一個國家都有他的語言,看不同場合有不同表達方式,我阿蕾也是,我也是,阿蕾也是。 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
67.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
71.696 |
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所以說,你做多久不做多久?兩年多兩年多,我在中間要十四年,十三年多我做第一屆是在伊朗 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
95.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
123.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
在第一屆的時候差不多十二年前我又是站在這裡我又要做教育雖然說是那個反對洞不是這個洞我們對國家的建設國防外交大家都有高度的共識是到尊重主席所以譬如說我對馬文君教育他的一些做法我沒有認同但是我從來起 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
125.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
127.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
對我國的尊重基準憲政立法都是對的 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
156.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
165.582 |
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好不好 針對你的施政 我提出質詢 質詢有道理不能無厘頭 不能謾罵 不能情緒訓 不能咆哮我過去十幾年跟你互動 我有咆哮過嗎我秉持一個原則 您要秉持一個溫良公檢當所以我尊重你自己的保證 我尊重東東山保證 參與吳釗燮保證 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
186.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
186.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
216.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
229.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
先來講 先來證 邪魔就不入先來講 邪魔就不入所以先來講 邪魔就不入 怕你怕到不行聽不順聽不順 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
253.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
265.934 |
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邱志偉委員你也很辛苦連你這個外交部的工作都非常辛苦但是為了國家為了人民選擇選擇求實事做實事這個弱者 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
273.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
278.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
博聲亮進口秀你歡迎行者入圍入就 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
280.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
302.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
所以外交部現在很認真針對各行政策要好好討論你今天的報告裡面具體的推案作為包括所有的可以做的爭取國際與國幫認同大概到四位行動團包括用立法部門多元方式國際輿論 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
304.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
327.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
每一年每一年的成果都還不錯都逐漸累積有什麼我們沒辦法還是沒辦法叫做WHA當然一般的常識我會認為一定是一國一人在動嘛一國就是中華人民共和國對不對一個人就是那個幹事長幹事長的任期到什麼時候2027年阿拉庫喔嗯 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
330.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
351.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
但是我們還是要持續不斷的努力在努力的過程中我們可以建立更多有我的力量培養更多的年輕人對這個問題的關注因為我們在世界各國的校園有很多留學生我們透過留學生的力量去影響他們的國家因為年輕人的聲音很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
354.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
380.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
所以這部分要加強這個對年輕人對這個問題的問題意識以及投入這個台灣WHA相關的這個作為沒有我看很多都你們可操之在我的部分應該全部都做了全部都做啊非操之在己的部分就是我講中國跟藤賽德這個部分你怎麼努力你就沒辦法突破嘛是不是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
381.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
399.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我想委員說得非常對,就是完全超視在我們的這個部分,我們要再回頭過去檢視說還有什麼沒有做好,還是沒有做前。剛才你提到說我們在海外的這些留學生,我們海外的僑民的這個部分,我們有在努力,但是可能還可以再加強。 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
400.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
416.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那有關於這種動員國際的這個友人的部分在過去這幾年我們有看到一些具體的成果比如說聯合進洽的這個官員的成績以及人數都在增加當中有幫我們寫推薦函的這些人也增加當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
417.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
440.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那幫我們去公開講話的或者是說間接來講話的這個也都在增加當中所以這個是具體的方向所以說雖然這一條路有比較艱苦有比較辛苦但是你所做的都留下痕跡你所做的都會成為一個累積慢慢來你也累積到一個程度你的效果就會出現 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
442.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
452.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
而且中國不是說不能改變 中國隨時都會改變的它內政的問題 經濟的問題 這權力鬥爭的問題 美中這個鬥爭的問題它隨時都會發生變動的所以在國際上 英雄人隨時會抗擊對不對對 尤其是他們的經濟能力下滑的過程我們做超市賽制 做到緊繃 是做到滿 待以時機 適當的時機 我們就可以達陣 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
472.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
486.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
要有耐心不然還有信心然後結合所有年齡層的力量比如說尤其是年輕人像在海外那種對國家的領導我非常感動中國大賽在哈佛在那邊演講台灣女生在那邊唱什麼這是黃金培 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
498.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
508.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
所以你要公布我們的校園長他們是他們DNN就是愛台灣人的土地不敢台灣在國際社會上收到中國給予所以我就說齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
514.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
534.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我要講可能還要講兩小時兩小時可能會浪費時間因為今天是你最晚嘛是那你雖然轉換寶刀一樣是在這個國安體系你現在你擔任委員會的主席你還要整合以你的經驗我相信你會做得很好 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
535.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
535.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
557.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
579.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
與眾欣賞國家安全跟國防跟外交台灣是個特殊的處境不管在什麼位置上我都會努力要與國家為念要與人民為念要與子子孫孫為念不能一己一師一黨之力你要博聲量 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
582.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
584.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
592.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
612.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
這個我相信所有的這些你們的司處長都很認真有時候這個要變成新的環境、新的變局有時候有理想背景所以你要對我們這個外交、國安、福利都要很認真我會力挺他們那你了解隨時在外管的每一個狀況都要給 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
616.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
620.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
讓所有的外交部同仁以作為中華民國外交官為榮 |