| IVOD_ID |
152216 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152216 |
| 日期 |
2024-05-06 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
聯席會議-11-1-20,15-1 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期財政、內政委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[1] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[1] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
立法院第11屆第1會期財政、內政委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-05-06T11:39:32+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-05-06T11:50:20+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:48 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6319d5f220c85a68b799b9647fb521bd84bf63cf92ad2af6801aa916026d4d429be7746c6163105b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
王世堅 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:39:32 - 11:50:20 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-05-06T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期財政、內政委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查本院委員賴士葆等22人、委員傅崐萁等20人分別擬具「地方稅法通則第四條條文修正草案」等2案。
【5月6日及8日二天一次會】） |
| gazette.lineno |
846 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
王委員世堅：（11時39分）謝謝主席，我請財政部李次長還有賦稅署宋署長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請李次長跟宋署長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
李次長慶華：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
王委員世堅：次長、署長，三個問題，第一個問題是本席在前兩次會議有提一個臨時提案，希望我們對於免稅額、寬減額的提高，應該把消費者物價指數上漲累計3%這一個限制降低，我們把CPI累計上漲3%降低啦！降低這個門檻，結果你的答復我看不懂，你講了一大堆，你的意思就是我們這些免稅額、寬減額已經太多項目啦！包括什麼租金的寬減、長照的寬減等等，你寫了一堆，那些本來就有寬減啊！所以我想不懂為什麼必須要達到消費者物價指數（CPI）漲3%以上的這一個門檻不能降低，降低到2%、降低到1%都不行？ |
| gazette.blocks[3][1] |
事實上，我們全民社會的感覺，都覺得這個CPI的調查、這些指數都沒辦法全面真實的反映我們事實上生活物價的高漲、調整，沒辦法嘛！所以我跟其他好幾位財委會同仁才會提這個臨時提案，希望你們去降低啦！所以我不曉得你能不能重新再考慮收回你那一次的答復，好不好？因為那個答復，我很簡單，講三個字——看不懂！ |
| gazette.blocks[3][2] |
我不懂的另外一件事情就是，奇怪！你們107年的時候刪除了富人稅，這富人稅一年將近100億，這6年下來你們刪除、少徵了600億的富人稅，那時候你們很慷慨，大筆一揮，也沒有這麼多其他的林林總總什麼，講一大堆理由，沒有！沒有！那這600億你有找到替代財源嗎？你有說我少掉富人稅，那我去徵什麼來做替代財源，找到了我們再來刪，沒有！你們也沒這麼做，我認為現在民眾對於物價高漲已經感受很深，而且4月份我們調漲電價以後，可能後續物價的波動還會再來一波也說不定，所以我希望次長你們回去重新把你這個答復收回，你重新再考慮，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
李次長慶華：委員，我說明一下，因為目前那個3%是一個累計數，等於就是從上次調整到現在已經超過3%。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
王委員世堅：是啦！這個又是你的理由一堆啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
李次長慶華：但是因為現在一般來講，行政院主計總處認定是不是通膨是看一年的CPI有沒有超過2%。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
王委員世堅：這些我們都知道…… |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
李次長慶華：是，所以我們是覺得…… |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
王委員世堅：要論這個論不完啦！這個，我就是要告訴你，不只我，我們提案的幾位委員，我們很坦白跟你講，我就是簡單跟你說三個字──看不懂！那再外加三個字，你現在說明了，我再加三個字──聽不懂啦！我就跟你講嘛！你當時你要刪除富人稅的時候，你可曾講那麼多「落落長」，沒有嘛？不是嗎？這6年來那600億大筆一揮就沒啦，不是嗎？你為了那一千人、為了那一千多個有錢人、最頂端的有錢人，你可以大筆一揮，不用任何解釋，你只有簡單幾個字，我上次跟你講過，我也懶得再跟你講，意思就是說你要留財、攬財就對啦！那個「財」不是才能的「才」，你是幫這些富人留財，是財富的「財」！留給他們，是這樣嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[9][1] |
另外，對於加薪減稅，你們的答復我也是覺得……你說照院版加薪金額150%內，這個我們可以再討論啦！但是我認為這麼多年來，中段班薪資的加薪最少啦！在我們統計之內，薪資對象裡的中段班幾乎都低於平均薪資，所以我的提案才會說我們加碼到200%限度內免稅，來讓企業對中階段薪資者加薪。因為根據我們的調查，我們現在中位數有三分之二以上的勞工領不到平均數，領不到平均數！所以我希望你們能夠再次看清楚一點我這個提案，對於沒有達到平均薪資的員工加薪，應該給他們更高的薪資費用加成率，才能鼓勵企業對他們加薪嘛，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
李次長慶華：委員，這提案我們上禮拜四在經濟委員會已經審查了…… |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
王委員世堅：你那個說明我一樣再送你三個字──看不懂！我覺得你們很奇怪，對全體多數百姓有利的、對大多數受薪階級有利的，你們就是錙銖必較，寫到整篇「落落長」，對大金額、高金額的你們就很慷慨，我不懂啦！我不懂你們的看法是什麼啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
李次長慶華：不過委員這個部分我們會再討論，因為這個部分已經要交付朝野協商，經濟部也在參考各位委員的意見，我們會跟他們一起來決定，看要不要把這個門檻再大幅的調高。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
王委員世堅：我再送你六個字啦！希望你在處理、調整這些稅率的時候，你考慮到這六個字，這六個字叫「見富者而藐之」！你不要看到有錢人就像看到天一樣，可不可以？「見富者而藐之」！ |
| gazette.blocks[13][1] |
好啦！我在最後幾分鐘跟你談一下機車，我搞不懂財政部這麼多年以來就是對機車族，我如果用五個字形容叫「千刀萬里追」，說機車是空氣污染的元兇，每次都用這個理由說，所以我們要加徵機車的貨物稅，結果次長你知道這多離譜嗎？機車的貨物稅現在是17%，竟然比大客車15%還高，大家人盡皆知啊！機車排放廢氣絕對是遠低於大客車，不是嗎？結果你們竟然這麼……你們還是一樣推給空污，我就跟環保署調，我說機車真的是這麼可惡嗎？現在新的七期排放標準，現在的機車……電動的不講，電動幾乎無污染，我們就講新的燃油機車，都已經是七期排放標準，它在PM2.5的排放裡面，它不是我們整體環境有PM2.5的元兇，機車在整體環境裡面，只占PM2.5來源4.9%，4.9到5.6中間，我就舉一項就好，餐飲業10%，餐廳占10%！你如果說要追PM2.5的元兇，那應該通令各級縣市政府衛生局、環保局對這一部分來追，更何況如果要對空污來懲罰，必也正名乎！你就讓環保署去課空污費等等，這才對嘛，不是嗎？結果你說因為空污，所以我要跟你課貨物稅，這很奇怪嘛，不是嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[13][2] |
因為我時間已經到了，次長，好不容易，你跟署長你們應該都會留任，應該是可以為國家做更多的事，我希望你們能夠把握，既然留下來了，可以好好處理你們對我們委員會的一些很粗糙的答復，其實因為我們惜才愛才，我們的憤怒遠高於剛才這些言詞，好不好？你們的答復太輕率了。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
李次長慶華：謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
王委員世堅：好，你請回。謝謝主席。 |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
主席：謝謝，接著請黃國昌委員質詢。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
58 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
聯席會議-11-1-20,15-1 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
羅明才 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
林德福 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
吳秉叡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
郭國文 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
賴惠員 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
顏寬恒 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
牛煦庭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
蘇巧慧 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
李彥秀 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
李坤城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
張宏陸 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
陳玉珍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
張智倫 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
王世堅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
鍾佳濱 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
王美惠 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
許宇甄 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[21] |
李柏毅 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
1 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-05-06 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1134101 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1134101_00002 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期財政、內政委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
審查本院委員賴士葆等22人、委員傅崐萁等20人分別擬具「地方稅法通則第四條條文修正草案」
等2案 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
6.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
7.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
謝謝主席我請財政部理事長還有這個復稅署 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
36.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
38.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
次長、署長三個問題第一個問題是本席在 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
50.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
64.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
前兩次會議有提一個臨時提案那就是希望說我們對於免稅額寬減額的提高那應該把消費者物價指數這個上漲累計3%這個限制啊我們把3%CPI的上漲降低啦降低這個門檻結果你的答覆齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
79.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
101.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
我看不懂就對,你講一大堆啦,你的意思就是說我們這些免稅寬檢的已經太多項目啦吼,那包括什麼租金的寬檢啦,長照寬檢等等你寫一堆,那些本來就寬檢啊。所以我想不懂為什麼必須要達到CPI消費者物價指數漲3%以上,這一個門檻。 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
106.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
132.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
不能降低降低到2%降低到1%都不行事實上我們全民社會的感覺啊都覺得這個CPI的調查這些指數都沒辦法全面真實的反應我們事實上生活物價的高漲調整沒辦法嘛所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
134.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
160.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
我跟其他我們好幾位財委會同仁才會提這個臨時提案希望你們去降低啦所以我不曉得你能不能重新再考慮你收回你那一次的答覆好不好因為那個答覆我很簡單講三個字看不懂我不懂的另外一件事情就是說奇怪你們107年的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
163.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
186.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
你們刪除了復仁稅刪除這復仁稅一年將近一百億這六年下來你們刪除少增了六百億的復仁稅那時候你們很慷慨啊大筆一揮也沒有這麼多其他的林林總統什麼講一大堆理由沒有沒有那這六百億 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
190.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
192.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
欸 你有找到替代財源嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
192.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
200.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
你有說 我少掉富人稅 那我去爭什麼來做替代財源 找到了我們再來刪 沒有 你們也沒這麼做 所以我認為啦 現在民眾對於物價高漲已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
211.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
231.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
感受很深而且4月份我們調漲電價以後可能後續物價的波動還會再來一波也說不定所以我希望那個次長你們回去重新把你這個答覆收回你重新再考慮好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
232.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
260.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
我説明一下就是目前因為我們那個3%他是一個累計數啦他等於就是從上次調整到現在已經超過3%這個又是你的理由一堆啦但是因為現在一般來講從行政院主義總署認定是不是通膨他是看說一年的這個CPI有沒有超過2%這些我們都知道所以我們是覺得要論這個論不完啦這個我就是告訴你不只我 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
260.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
288.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我們提案的幾位委員我們很坦白跟你講我就是簡單跟你說三個字看不懂那再外加三個字你現在說明我再加三個字聽不懂啊就我跟你講嘛當時你要把富人稅刪除的時候你可曾講那麼多漏漏等沒有嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
289.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
311.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
不是嗎?那600億這6年來那600億大筆一揮就沒了啊不是嗎?你為了那1000人為了那1000多個有錢人最頂端的有錢人你可以大筆一揮不用任何解釋你只有簡單幾個字我上次跟你講過我也懶得再跟你講意思就是說你要流財攬財就對啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
320.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
323.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
另外加薪減稅你們的答覆我也是覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
337.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
354.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
這個你說照院版好照院版你只要你說這個加薪進了150%內這個我們可以再討論啦但是我認為這麼多年來中段班薪資的加薪最少啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
355.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
364.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
在我們統計室內薪資對象中段班幾乎都低於平均薪資所以我的提案才會說我們加碼到200%限度內免稅來 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
372.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
399.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
讓企業會對中階段薪資來加稅因為根據我們的調查我們現在中位數據這個有三分之二以上的勞工領不到平均數領不到平均數所以我這個提案我希望你們能夠再次看清楚一點沒有達到平均薪資的員工加薪應該給他們更高的 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
400.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
405.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
新資費用加成率才能鼓勵企業對他們加薪嗎?好不好?看不懂! |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
417.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
443.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我覺得齁,你們奇怪,對全體多數百姓有利的,對大多數壽星階級有利的,阿你們就是,齁齁,知珠必較啦,講到瘦到整片露露凍。阿對那個大金額、高金額的,你們就很慷慨就對了。我不懂的啦,我不懂你們是怎麼看法啦齁。 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
444.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
445.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我再創你6個字啦希望你在處理這些稅率調整的時候你考慮到這6個字 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
465.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
476.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
這六個字叫見負責而秒知你們如果看到有幾人你就好像看到天一樣可不可以見負責而秒知好啦我在最後幾分鐘跟你談一下機車啦齁我搞不懂財政部這麼多年以來就是對機車族啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
491.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
518.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我如果用6個字形容叫做千刀萬里追就說啊機車啊是空氣汙染的元兇每次都用這個理由說啊所以我們要加徵這個機車的貨物稅結果次長你知道這多離譜嗎機車的貨物稅現在是17%竟然比大客車15%還高那大家人盡皆知啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
520.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
544.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
機車排放這個廢棄絕對是遠低於大客車嘛不是嗎那結果欸你們竟然這麼那你們還是一樣推給空污我就跟環保署吊啦我說那機車真的是這麼可惡嗎欸現在新的七期排放標準現在的機車啊電動都不講電動幾乎無污染我們就講 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
545.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
569.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
新的一樣是燃油機車來講都已經是七期排放標準他在PM2.5的排放裡面他不是我們整體環境PM2.5的元兇耶機車在整體環境裡面PM2.5只佔百分之4.94.9到5.6中間我就舉一項就好 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
572.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
591.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
餐飲業10%餐廳占10%你若說要追PM2.5的元兇那應該通令我們各級縣市政府、衛生局、環保局對這一部分來追更何況如果要對空屋來懲罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
593.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
617.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
幣也正名乎你就跟他磕人家環保署去磕這個空屋費等等這才對嘛不是嗎那你弄一個你說啊這個空屋啊所以我要跟你磕貨物稅這很奇怪嘛不是嗎你這天因為我時間已經到了所以次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
618.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
642.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
好不容易你跟署長你們都應該是留任的啦那應該是可以為國家做更多的事啦我希望你們能夠把握既然留下來了可以把好好的把你對我們委員會的一些很粗糙的答覆我們其實因為習財愛財啦其實我們的憤怒遠高於剛才這些言辭好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
643.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
646.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
因為你們那個答覆太輕率了 |