| IVOD_ID |
151524 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151524 |
| 日期 |
2024-04-22 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-26-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
13 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-04-22T10:10:50+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-04-22T10:21:29+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:39 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5754819b6179c336087834199dac635dcff82116bdf94ca8dcb4691eb09bf4e2143847ea1a8270d35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
蘇清泉 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:10:50 - 10:21:29 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-04-22T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長、交通部、經濟部、內政部警政署就「噪音管制與加速推動排氣管噪音認證」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【4月22日、24日及25日三天一次會】） |
| gazette.lineno |
532 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
蘇委員清泉：（10時10分）謝謝主席，我請部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請薛部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
薛部長富盛：蘇委員早。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
蘇委員清泉：部長，恭喜喔！脫離苦海。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
薛部長富盛：感謝，不會啦！別這樣說，我學習了很多。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
蘇委員清泉：立法院是牛肉場，立法院也是大染缸，來這邊正常人都會變得不正常。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
薛部長富盛：不會、不會，蘇委員太客氣了。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
蘇委員清泉：回去學校好好再修練一下，現在教授可以幹到70歲嘛？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
薛部長富盛：對，可以從65歲延退到70歲，但是延退就不能借調，所以我必須回去。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
蘇委員清泉：好，今天大家都一直圍著噪音在走，讓部長見識見識。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][1] |
（播放影片） |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
蘇委員清泉：137分貝，這第一名啦！這個在臺灣是一個很夯的行業，137.4分貝，不錯喔！聽了很爽！接下來看車子，這個沒有掛牌，還會噴火。部長，你看到這個覺得怎麼樣？我看了是很興奮耶！ |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
薛部長富盛：我看了是很難過。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
蘇委員清泉：你看這個排氣管，一支排氣管都要十幾萬，我在這裡有另類的看法，臺灣的改裝行業非常的…… |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
薛部長富盛：盛行。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
蘇委員清泉：很棒喔！我們做的材料還有外銷喔！還賺了不少錢，所以年輕人他沒掛牌，你要怎麼罰他？但是唯一不好就是他在室內測速，空氣不好，你看都是在室內，車子也是，車子最多就掛臨時牌，一年繳個二、三十萬，他也爽，臨時牌你也沒辦法開單啊！對不對？部長，這樣對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
薛部長富盛：對，這群人大概都在玩車的，在他們自己的場域嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
蘇委員清泉：所以這個要怎麼引導？不要像剛剛在講的一直禁，我這裡有一個建議，大鵬灣國際賽車場現在生意很差，你可以引導讓他去那邊拼、去那邊比，為什麼呢？這個大鵬灣國際賽車場是我在第8屆立委的時候，我是促成之一啦！主力之一，那個時候是希望F1去那邊，後來因為長度不夠，所以變成F2而已，現在因為大鵬灣標出去，東方集團解約了，也仲裁了，現在要再找新的合約，但是這個賽車場就丟在那邊是蠻可惜的，我們是不是把這個產業…… |
| gazette.blocks[16][1] |
你看年輕人看到那個就爽啊！他們就是要玩這個，為什麼不把他引導到這裡？第二，我們稅收也增加，讓他們有地方去發揚一下，然後車子也可以，都可以，摩托車也可以，也讓這個產業能蓬勃發展，這個是另一方面。這種東西放在我們的街頭，在原住民那邊這樣玩，沒有人受得了嘛！對不對？部長，你看…… |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
薛部長富盛：對，其實蘇委員的觀念很好，我覺得這種才是……既然我們禁止不了，那就應該是引導在特定的場域，讓這群人可以去發揮，也符合他的興趣，應該是這樣，又不會影響到別人，應該是用引導來取代禁止，這個是可以思考的方式。 |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
蘇委員清泉：彰濱那個賽車場也是，也沒有達到F1嘛！這個都是F1以下的，所以我們要把它弄…… |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
薛部長富盛：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
蘇委員清泉：因為這個長度不夠啦！所以說如果能夠達到F1的話，當然是要把它弄成F1嘛！剛剛看到這個是另外一個角度，這是一個產業，不要把它當作…… |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
薛部長富盛：對，從另外一個角度來思考。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
蘇委員清泉：不是妖魔鬼怪，沒有那麼嚴重啦！但是他們到路上去飆車，就是不對。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
薛部長富盛：對，沒錯。 |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
蘇委員清泉：會在路上飆車就因為他沒有場地嘛！所以你就要把他引導，部長應該可以同意我說的…… |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
薛部長富盛：可以，我認同蘇委員正面的看法，把他引導，而不是把他變妖魔化，但是在正常的地方、我們一般的地方就不允許這樣做。 |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
蘇委員清泉：對、對、對。 |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
薛部長富盛：就要去特定的地方，我們提供場域。 |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
蘇委員清泉：對，就是要這樣子，大家看一下，在大鵬灣，你要飆就來這邊飆，歡迎喔！ |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
薛部長富盛：幫屏東行銷就對了。 |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
蘇委員清泉：對，行銷。 |
| gazette.blocks[30][1] |
好，再來，我們現在的聯合稽查，你剛剛講了有警察跟環保的，因為警察不能去取締噪音嘛！所以一定要警察跟環保，就發生一個事情，你看你們噪音給人家罰了三千、六千，這沒多少，他還喊殺、喊打，最好罰一萬、兩萬我沒意見。但是交通隊這邊用交通條例第四十三條，那前面是用噪音的第十一條，警察開一張單、環保開一張單，行政罰則可以一事二罰嗎？它只是一個噪音而已耶！部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
薛部長富盛：我想一罪大概不能二罰啦！就看他那個行為是屬於哪一個，當然站在人民的權利，就讓他選擇他要接受兩個裡面的哪一個，我個人的看法啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
蘇委員清泉：這個還給人家吊照吊6個月耶！你知道嗎？有這樣幹的嗎？我今天講的都是用另外一個角度在看事情，當部長就要講官話，回到學校當教授就要講實話。 |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
薛部長富盛：沒有啦！我都講實話，我沒有在講官話。 |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
蘇委員清泉：核三廠的廠長退休前3天、5天還在跟我吵架，他說沒有缺電、沒有缺電；結果他退休之後2天，我去拜訪他，我請他當我的核能顧問，他說缺電缺得一塌糊塗，我說你神經病啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
薛部長富盛：沒有啦！我表裡一致的啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
蘇委員清泉：部長，你不會這樣吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
薛部長富盛：不分場合都一樣，做人就是要這樣啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
蘇委員清泉：做人要比較有堅持啦！所以這個是我一再要講的，就是你現在總共有一百多套嘛！全臺灣。 |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
薛部長富盛：210套。 |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
蘇委員清泉：都是科技執法的嘛？ |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
薛部長富盛：對，科技執法210。 |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
蘇委員清泉：最近要增加到三百多套？ |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
薛部長富盛：對，306套，會再增加306套。 |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
蘇委員清泉：我們屏東有設很多臺嗎？這樣隨便設，我們屏東會死耶！ |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
薛部長富盛：我回去再瞭解我們分配的原則，有時候各縣市也不要互相比較來比較去啦！當然假如說真的落差很大，可以稍微反映一下，我相信環境部在做這個分配，應該也有一定的原則，包括縣市政府的配合度，願不願意來配合款，這個也相關，因為現在數量都還很少，所以數量很少的時候在那邊比較說哪裡多、哪裡少，可能我們來爭取更多的設備…… |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
蘇委員清泉：我還有30秒，最後一個問題就是電動車現在都沒有聲音，電動車我看沒什麼噪音，那會不會太安靜了，容易發生車禍？ |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
薛部長富盛：有的人也是這樣感覺，都沒聲音。 |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
蘇委員清泉：有點吵吵的，你才知道車子來了。 |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
薛部長富盛：反而不習慣。 |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
蘇委員清泉：不習慣耶！車子來都沒感覺，真的要撞下去了，你也不知道，那要怎麼辦？ |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
薛部長富盛：你看這個又是另外一種，所以搭配電動車…… |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
蘇委員清泉：要講實話喔。 |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
薛部長富盛：事實上現在的電動車有很多感測器，你看包括Tesla，你在高速公路跑，旁邊有車子來，它會有聲音跟反應，所以我覺得車商他會設計…… |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
蘇委員清泉：沒有，這是針對開車的人，他的車上四周有一大堆sensor，這個我們同意，但是外面的人，譬如說騎摩托車的人，電動車從你旁邊經過，如果沒聲音你也不知道，那會很容易發生擦撞，所以我們談到噪音，你說70以上不行，還是80以上不行…… |
| gazette.blocks[55][0] |
薛部長富盛：對，剛剛盧委員有講大概7、80那個範圍嘛。 |
| gazette.blocks[56][0] |
蘇委員清泉：對，如果電動車的噪音是0，那還得了，至少要有1、20的噪音…… |
| gazette.blocks[57][0] |
薛部長富盛：沒有，不可能啦，那輪子在路上跑都一定有聲音啦…… |
| gazette.blocks[58][0] |
蘇委員清泉：不然不曉得車子來。會喔，都有聲音喔？ |
| gazette.blocks[59][0] |
薛部長富盛：都有，不可能0啦，要是0的話就…… |
| gazette.blocks[60][0] |
蘇委員清泉：電動車這一塊可能要用點心喔，好不好？不然的話，我很怕另類的問題。 |
| gazette.blocks[61][0] |
林司長福山：這個部分我跟委員報告一下，電動車的部分，在國際安全法規裡面有要求它具備最基本的警示音，國內的法規跟聯合國以及歐盟的法規都一樣。 |
| gazette.blocks[62][0] |
蘇委員清泉：多少？ |
| gazette.blocks[63][0] |
林司長福山：我再提供細部資料給委員，但是有要求一個警示音。 |
| gazette.blocks[64][0] |
蘇委員清泉：警示的音量，好，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[65][0] |
薛部長富盛：謝謝蘇委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[66][0] |
主席（王委員正旭代）：謝謝蘇清泉委員的發言。下一位請黃秀芳委員發言。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
252 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-1-26-13 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
黃秀芳 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
陳昭姿 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
陳菁徽 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
林月琴 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
廖偉翔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
王育敏 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
盧縣一 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
蘇清泉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
涂權吉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
王正旭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
李坤城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
林德福 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
林淑芬 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
牛煦庭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
何欣純 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
劉建國 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
羅智強 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
陳瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[21] |
楊曜 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[22] |
黃仁 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[23] |
邱鎮軍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[24] |
廖先翔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[25] |
陳冠廷 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
161 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-04-22 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1133401 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1133401_00003 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
邀請環境部部長、交通部、經濟部、內政部警政署就「噪音管制與加速推動排氣管噪音認證」進
行專題報告，並備質詢 |
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1133401_00002 |
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謝謝主席,我請部長請薛部長好,蘇委員早部長,經濟喔?脫離苦海啦感謝,不會啦,別說這樣,我學習很多這個立法院是那個牛肉場,立法院也是大展崗來這邊,正常人都會變得不正常不會不會,蘇委員太客氣了 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
33.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
36.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
今天大家都一直在 圍著噪音在走 讓部長見識見識 來 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
75.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
75.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
三、二、一。 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
98.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
105.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
台灣這個是一個很棒的行業。137點是福利。你看車子。這個都沒掛牌,沒有掛牌。 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
128.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
133.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
還在噴火 還在噴火 還在烤 烤製部長 你看了這個 你覺得怎麼樣我看了是很興奮欸你看 這個這個排氣管 一支排氣管都要十幾萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
151.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
179.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
我要這裡另列的看法台灣這個改裝的行業非常的很棒喔我們做的材料還有外銷還賺了不少錢所以年輕人他沒掛牌啊 你要怎麼換但是唯一不好就是他在室內在室內測試空氣不好你看都是在室內車子也是那車子最多他就掛臨時牌一年繳個二三十萬他還爽 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
182.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
202.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
林氏牌你如果沒有就開斷了,對不對?不對?這樣對不對?對,他這可能是這群人大概都在玩車的,在他們自己的場域嘛所以這個要怎麼引導啦,不要,你剛剛在講一直進那我這裡有一個建議齁,這個大鵬灣國際賽車場,現在線密很大,你能不能引導讓他去那邊,去那邊齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
207.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
230.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
為什麼呢?這個大鵬灣國際賽車場是我在第8屆立委的時候我是促成之一的主力之一那那個時候是希望F1去那邊後來因為長度不夠所以變成F2而已那現在因為大鵬灣飆出去東方集團解約了重財了現在要再找新的合約但是這個賽車場就 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
233.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
254.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
丟在那邊是蠻可惜的我們是不是把這個產業你看那年輕人看到那個就爽啊他們就是要玩這個那為什麼不把他引導到這裡因為我們稅收也增加然後讓他們有地方去去去花樣一下然後車子也可以都可以摩托車也可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
255.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
256.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
所以蘇文 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
271.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
295.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
其實你的觀念很好,我覺得這種才是既然我們禁止不了那就應該是引導在特定的場域讓這群人可以去發揮也符合他的興趣應該是這樣,又不會影響到別人應該是用引導來取代這個禁止的這個是可以思考的方式張斌那一刻賽車長也是沒有達到F1 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
297 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
306.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
所以這個都是F1以下的所以我們要把它弄因為這個長度不夠啦所以如果能夠達到F1的話當然是要把它弄成F1 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
307.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
314.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
所以剛剛看到這個是另外一個角度這是一個產業從另外一個角度來思考不是妖魔鬼怪沒那麼嚴重啦但是他們到路上去那飆車就是不對那會在路上飆車就因為他沒有場地嘛所以你不要給他引導 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
328.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
345.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我認同蘇文正面的看法﹖把他引導而不是把他妖魔化﹖但是他在正常的地方﹖我們一般的地方就不允許做﹖你就要去特定的地方﹖我們提供場域﹖好 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
356.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
375.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我們現在的聯合機場你剛剛講了什麼什麼要警察跟環保的因為警察不能去取締噪音嘛所以一定要跟警察跟環保就發生一個事情啊你看你們噪音給人家花了三千、六千這麼多少當然還是喊殺喊打最好花到一萬、兩萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
377.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
395.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我沒見但是呢你交通對這邊用交通條例43條那前面是用第8條噪音的11條噪音的警察開一張單環保開一張單行政罰則可以一試二罰嗎他只是一個噪音而已捏部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
397.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
418.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我想假如一墜大概不能二滑啦就看他那個行為是屬於哪一個當然站在這個人民的權利就讓他選擇他要接受兩個裡面哪一個我個人的看法這感覺給人家吊罩吊六個月捏你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
419.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
420.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
有這樣幹的嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
420.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
431.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
所以我今天講的都是用另外一個角度在看事情。我們當部長就要講官話,回到學校當教授就要講實話。 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
434.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
454.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我都講實話我沒有在講官話河山場的廠長退休前三天五天還在跟我吵架他說你有缺電沒有缺電結果他退休之後兩天我去拜訪他我請他當我的核能顧問他說缺電缺得一塌糊塗我說你神經病啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
454.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
462.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
沒有啦,我表裏一致的啦,不分場合都一樣啦,我們做人就是這樣啦做人比較有根本的啦,所以這個是我一再要講的就是說你現在總共有100多套嘛,全台灣201套,210套,210啦都是科技執法的嘛對,科技執法210 那個最近要增加到300多套 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
484.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
485.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
對。306套會再增加。 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
494.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
521.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
可能我回去再了解我們分配的一個原則因為有時候大家各縣市也比較互相比較來比較去當然假如說真的落差很大可以稍微反映一下我相信環境部在做這個分配應該也有它一定的原則包括縣市政府的配合度願意不願意來配合款這個也相關因為現在數量都還很少所以數量很少的時候在那裡比較說哪裡多哪裡少可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
524.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
529.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我們來爭取更多的設備最後一個問題就是電動車現在都沒有聲音了電動車我看沒什麼噪音會不會太安靜了會不會發生車禍有的人也會這樣覺得有點吵吵的不習慣 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
547.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
555.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
市長現在這電動車它很多感測器啦你再告訴公路跑它旁邊有車載它會有聲音跟反應啦所以也是有這個我覺得車這個車上它會設置沒有這是它開車的人它旁邊一大堆sensor |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
574.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
580.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
但是外面的人：比如說騎車的人騎電動車一直騎過去：你也不知道會不會發生騎到：所以我們的噪音你說70以上不行：80以上不行：那如果電動車的噪音是0還得了： |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
596.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
600.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
電動車的部分在這個國際安全法規裡面有要求他最基本的一個這個警示音啊國內的法規跟聯合國跟歐盟的法規都一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
626.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
627.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
蘇清泉委員的發言 |