| IVOD_ID |
151464 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151464 |
| 日期 |
2024-04-18 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-36-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
14 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-04-18T12:11:48+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-04-18T12:20:47+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:08:59 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b4453e9ade5aad49fc9ff81d0e85270258c9c5dab72e655c1c94a00f58aa63e905615ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
謝龍介 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:11:48 - 12:20:47 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：審查
一、民進黨黨團擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。
二、委員呂玉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行使法第十五條之一條文修正草案」案。
三、委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「立法院職權行使法增訂第二十八條之三及第二十八條之四條文草案」案。
四、委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。
五、委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。） |
| gazette.lineno |
467 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
謝委員龍介：（12時12分）主席，我請秘書長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請周秘書長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
周秘書長萬來：謝委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
謝委員龍介：秘書長你好。改革是大家都很喜歡，大家都很想要做的一件事情。合理說，改革就是要說自己好的，賣花要說花紅，賣茶要說茶香，對不對？現在卻不是這樣，都是互相漏氣，看藍綠白互相漏氣，也不一定會進步。藍的說綠的1990年說什麼、誰說了什麼，綠的說藍的1991年說什麼、誰說了什麼，本來就要審時度勢，事情本來就是時間不同，結果現在在這裡龜笑鱉無尾，鱉笑龜粗皮，你們坐在那裡看兩邊互罵，你們都微微笑。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][1] |
我個人覺得，為什麼大家會提出改革方案？就是要滿足社會期待嘛。對不對？過去七、八年來，就是立法院自我閹割，民間說立法院幾乎就是行政院的立法局，處處只有背書嚒。現在要來面對，今天不是民進黨可以萬年執政，任何政黨都有可能執政，因為行政權的傲慢，才會造成他們有恃無恐，有人在背書，有人在扛，有人在護航嘛。這次剛好國會三黨不過半，不管誰執政，這就是一個改革最好的契機，結果不是，民進黨要趕，國民黨也要趕，大家本來可以好好坐下來談，一味杯葛是沒有辦法的，你要去思考為什麼今天國民黨要這麼緊急，就是因為行政權的傲慢！ |
| gazette.blocks[3][2] |
我們就講我們的質詢好了，主席唱名三次沒有來，讓官員在那邊等，這種畫面出去，社會能夠容忍嗎？你們立法委員今日是沒有人對你們管考，所以比官員更沒有壓力，但是所有的官員壓力都很大，大家上班壓力都很大，法官壓力很大，檢察官壓力也很大，大家都有壓力，結果來這裡備詢，主席唱名立委不到，就叫官員坐在那邊等，這樣的畫面放出去，社會能夠諒解嗎？這本來就是大家要共同面對的。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][3] |
再來是行政權的傲慢，國民黨今天在立法院要爭的不是擴權，而是復權，過去七、八年自我閹割，立法委員做得沒有尊嚴，部長沒有在跟你神經，乾脆就不說實話。詐騙集團為何會跟民進黨那些人合照？這和民進黨本身沒有關係，因為剛好是民進黨執政，今天若是國民黨執政，這些詐騙集團就會來和國民黨合照，為什麼？就是因為想要藉這個場面取得社會一般人民的信賴，行詐騙之實，所以詐欺案件會那麼多，就是因為行政權沒有得到適度的監督，他們可以來這邊「黑白講」，甚至可以對立委反質詢，覺得可以不用接受立委的質問，覺得自己沒說實話也不要緊，這些詐騙集團，和他們合照過的這些人就會覺得不要緊，越騙越多，也抓不到我們。你看臺版的柬埔寨案判決判那麼輕，那麼多檢察官抓那麼多人，移送那麼多，起訴那麼多，法官壓力那麼大，弄到最後詐騙的一枝獨大。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][4] |
所以有關改革，我們也不用你笑我，我笑你，要務實來面對。過去若不是這樣的形體，就沒有臭雞蛋的案子，一個臭雞蛋案，就是不跟你說實話，問他雞蛋從哪裡來的，叫你不用問，問他買多少錢，也叫你不用問，對不對？一個高端疫苗，買多少也叫你不用問，跟誰買的合約書也叫你不用看。說立法權有多大，哪有多大？答應給你看，在秘密會議中的資料全部都塗黑，就像黑矸仔裝醬油，讓你看不出來、無處可看！要看什麼？這都是行政權傲慢之下衍生出來的產物，所以國民黨的提案怎麼會是叫做擴權？調閱權、調查權都可以討論，因為這些權是被限制的嘛。不可以形塑成拿到調查權以後立法委員就大到連衣服都穿不下，沒有那麼大啦！沒有那麼大啦！有很多方法可以規範我們，就算不接受規範或規範不到，最後人民也可以用選票來制裁，所以沒有那種沒有壓力的啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[3][5] |
我在這裡是要求行政、立法、司法院際之間多一點平等而已，三黨不過半才有這個機會，總統當選人也很客氣，他也表達他願意來立法院報告，這就是可以建立憲政慣例的好時機。至於一問一答、即問即答、統問統答，或者是不予質詢，可以黨團協商、政黨協商嘛，政黨協商、自然而然我個人的看法，對元首給予適度的禮遇是合理的，賴清德今天如果是做市長，我是不能讓他這樣，他有特權，他可以問我，我是想讓他來問我，這樣比較精彩，他當行政院長也是這樣，但是他今天當選總統，我們要建立憲政慣例的時候，就針對這個部分來做政黨協商，大家可以來談要給總統禮遇到什麼程度。既然來到立法院，就沒有道理說，立法院開會時，行政院來報告，如果再要求總統來就沒有辦法，你身為秘書長，我問你，立法院有辦法接受這個業務嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
周秘書長萬來：沒有問題啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
謝委員龍介：對不對？這很簡單的事情。行政作為都可以承受，總統當選人他也願意來報告，這有什麼好爭議的？所以三黨這個時候應該是建立憲政慣例最好的時機，如果失去這個機會，將變成這屆立法院最大的遺憾。我們應該在這次掌握三黨不過半的時機，總統當選人也表達願意來，立法院的行政程序也可以滿足這個會議的進行、國是報告的進行，所以應該要接受國民黨所提出來的建議。民進黨如果有意見，沒關係，我們在政黨協商的時候，大家充分溝通。謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
周秘書長萬來：謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
主席：好，謝謝謝委員，謝謝秘書長。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][1] |
接下來有請吳召委宗憲委員詢答。 |
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532 |
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委員會-11-1-36-14 |
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鍾佳濱 |
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林思銘 |
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吳思瑤 |
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柯建銘 |
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謝衣鳯 |
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羅智強 |
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莊瑞雄 |
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沈發惠 |
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謝龍介 |
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479 |
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立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
審查一、民進黨黨團擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案；二、委員呂玉玲等17人擬
具「立法院職權行使法第十五條之一條文修正草案」案；三、委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「立法院職
權行使法增訂第二十八條之三及第二十八條之四條文草案」案；四、委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等19
人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案；五、委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行
使法部分條文修正草案」案 |
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尋答主席我請秘書長秘書長你好這改革啊是大家都吃 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
32.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
53.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
該議,大家都很想要做的一件事。合理講,改革就是要講自己好的嘛。賣花要講花樣,賣茶要講茶香啊,對不對?不是啊,讓你們在這漏氣啊,看啊,被這樣互相漏氣,不一定會進步啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
56.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
64.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
86.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
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為什麼大家會提出這個改革的方案?要滿足社會的期待嘛。對不對?過去的七八黨來,就是立法院主謀嚴格。民間說,那立法院就不會屬於是行政院的立法局啊。處處只有白書嘛。那麼, |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
113.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
120.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
要來面對,今天不是民進黨可以萬年執政,任何政黨都有可能可以執政。行政權會五萬。今天你比較會做生意最好是有事無窮嘛,因為有人在賠書、有人在挨、有人在護航嘛。這次剛好國會三檔沒過半。 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
142.48 |
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這就是一個改革最好的契機啊!結果不是啊!民進黨也要看!國民黨也要看!大家本來可以好多少就要講啊!他們的皮革沒辦法!你要去思考說,為什麼今天國民黨要吃緊急? |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
165.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
175.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
因為行政權的五萬,咱說咱的這寸就好啦。主席講三百,叫三百沒來叫官員在那邊。這個衛民處在社會可以容忍嗎?你立法委員今天是沒人在跟你關課捏。所以會逼官員比較沒壓力。但是所有的官員嘛,會上班大家也壓力很大捏。法官也很大捏。檢察官也很大捏。大家都壓力啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
193.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
200.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
結果來到這裡,你說你點點的、命點點的,你沒資訊,還要叫官員坐檔嗎?這個委員處理社會可以了解嗎?這本來就是大家要共同面對嘛。再來,行政權的五萬。今天,立法院今天在國民黨要選的,不是要扣款的,是要補款!過去的七百年,主謀嚴格! |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
224.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
225.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
違反委員做到不尊嚴﹑違反委員做到不尊嚴﹑違反委員做到不尊嚴 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
243.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
254.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
今天國民黨執政這個詐騙集團就來看國民黨協助會為什麼?我想要做這個中民出於社會一般人民的信賴行詐騙執行嘛所以這個詐欺的這麼多就是因為行政權沒得到適度的監督他可以來這裡亂講啊甚至可以把你委婚這順啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
271.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
280.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
我不用接受你的質問啦!我沒說實話啦!沒關係啦!這個詐騙集團怎麼去最多人說很好啊!沒關係啦!這越騙越多啊!也抓我們不中啊!你看看,台版的檢普案判罪又判那麼輕啦!那麼多檢測官抓那麼多人!以上那麼多、起訴那麼多!啊!發掘壓力比較大!啊!用到沒那麼大就詐騙了!一雞獨待啊! |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
301.115 |
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| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
所以這個改革啊,就是說,要不然你扯我,我扯你。政府是來面對嘛。過去,若不是這種的形態,就沒有這個操機能的案嘛。這個操機能,沒有要跟你講事的,機能對賭賣你也不用問,一顆玫瑰褲你也不用問。對不對?一個過端的疫苗, |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
329.48 |
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339.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
此外,若你不想問,你不想看三、委員會的合約書嗎?說得對,立法院有多大?它有多大?讓你看筆密會議全部都給你圍毆筆!你只顧看導遊,你就看不了啦,不顧看啦,要看什麼?所以,這都是行政權五萬之下延伸出來的三分吧! |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
356.215 |
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365.457 |
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何謂立法院?這還是叫做扣款?條款、條紮款都可以討論,它是有批判罪的嘛。不能輕鬆說今天提到條紮款,不然立法院、立法委員大家大到三都穿不下,沒那麼大啦!沒那麼大啦!有很多可以給我們規範的啦! |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
383.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
389.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
你沒有要接受規範規範你不會到最好人民也可以用選票給你借財的所以沒有那個就沒有壓力了啦在這裡是要要求行政、立法、司法、議席之間大家盡量平靜而已啦三都沒有過半個月這個機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
407.847 |
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410.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
總統也已經表達,總統當選人如果剛好很客氣,他也表達他願意來立法院報告。這就是可以建立憲政慣例的很好的時間。 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
424.94 |
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438.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
一文一答、接文接答、同文同答﹐那才是規矩順。黨團協商、政黨協商、政黨協商主連、理連。當然我個人的看法,對元首、解釋度的內務,這合理,若清廷今天做市長我是不會當法院的,我問你,你問我。 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
450.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
454.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
議員呂玲等17人擬具:「立法院職權行使法第十五條之三及第二十八條之四條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
472.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
477.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
立法院：沒有那個說法規範：鄉長他若來報告還要求總統來報告：立法院若報告接受這個業務嗎?沒有問題啦。這很簡單的事情,鄉長作為都可以承受,總統鄧酸林若願意來報告, |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
495.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
501.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
這有什麼可以爭取的?所以三黨這個時候就是應該在建立憲政管理最好的時機,失去這個機會了,對啦。是這次在法院會變成最大的危險。 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
509.963 |
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520.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我們應該在今晚的將合這個三黨無過半,總統好選人若願意表達安捏,立法院的行政庭是可以滿足這個會議的進行,各司法局的進行。所以應該要接受國民黨所提出來這。那麼民進黨有意見,沒關係,我們來政黨合相的時候,大家充分的溝通。 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
538.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
538.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
謝謝我們謝委員、謝謝祕書長 |