| IVOD_ID |
151457 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151457 |
| 日期 |
2024-04-18 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
聯席會議-11-1-15,36-1 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[1] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[1] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-04-18T11:21:01+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-04-18T11:28:16+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:07:15 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b4453b035a476e2c179a8f066bc03aa2538ac5dab72e655c1c942b651861cc72ae2f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:21:01 - 11:28:16 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。 三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案」案。四、審查委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「地方制度法增訂第七條之四條文草案」案。） |
| gazette.lineno |
685 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：（11時21分）主席、各位委員，有請次長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：有請吳次長，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：還有鍾副主委。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
主席：還有鍾副主委。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
吳次長容輝：委員好！ |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
鍾副主任委員興華：委員好！ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：2位好！山地原住民和平地原住民的劃分已經行之有年，而且是憲法明定，所以當初本席在原民會擔任企劃處處長，草擬原住民身分法的時候，就是因為憲法還留著山地原住民和平地原住民的規定，所以在制定原住民身分法時，還是必須要有山地原住民和平地原住民，所以這個部分已經涉及到憲法的層次，這是第一個。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][1] |
第二個，今天我們談地方制度法第三十三條，本席要特別跟內政部和原民會講，尤其是原民會，原住民的參政權，包括其他原住民族的權益，原民會的公務人員都要主動。我們看一下民國98年的條文跟現行的條文，民國98年的條文是「直轄市有原住民人口在四千人以上者，於前項總額內應由原住民選出直轄市議員」，這裡沒有分山山、平山，而且是要在總額之內。在馬英九執政的時候，他為了要因應他所提出的五都政策，所以要修地方制度法，本席那個時候不是副主委，民國97年、98年的時候，本席已經降調為技監，但是本席還是親自的跟章仁香主任委員報告，是不是可以利用這樣的機會，因為都已經要成立直轄市了，這會涉及到臺中縣市、臺南縣市和高雄縣市的合併，所以以我們要怎麼樣因應才能讓原住民的參政權不要受到影響？所以本席有提出修正條文給章仁香主任委員，後來他指派我去參加內政部的會議。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][2] |
我在參加會議之前，我有先跟當時的內政部次長、林中森次長溝通、協調，他支持按照現在的條文，現在的條文就是有分山原和平原，這樣才能夠保障原住民的權利，因為臺南縣市、臺中縣市和高雄縣市本來有分，不去處理的話，名額絕對會減少，所以做了這樣一個決定，而且人數也從4,000人改為各2,000人，而且這個人數還比縣議員規定的人數高了一點，縣議員是1,500人，因為這也符合，所以當初內政部就接受了，而且為了避免影響到直轄市區域議員的名額，所以也不規定在總額之內，不會影響到區域議員。對這部分原民會有很大的責任，因為就內政部和內政部的官員來講，這件事情沒有那麼的重大，但是對原住民而言是很重大的，所以原民會要主動的去溝通和協調，然後把這個方向抓住、抓好。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][3] |
這個法案今天不是第一次審查，上一屆我們也有審查過，不過很可惜沒有通過，所以在這樣的情況下，像地方立法機關組織準則，對於直轄市的部分，只要不影響到區域的名額，其他區域議員或立委也不會反對，所以這個部分本席提出將縣市議員的總額拿掉，原來的條文有規定於縣市議員的總額內，我們把於總額內拿掉，然後針對山地原住民的部分看要怎麼保障，包括山地鄉以外的鄉鎮市，只要有山地原住民人口的鄉鎮市民代表就要有山地原住民的名額，要這樣因應。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][4] |
縣議員的部分，包括縣轄市的部分，像新竹市、彰化縣，目前有幾個超過1,500人？鍾副主委知道嗎？縣跟縣轄市？像新竹市就有超過嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
鍾副主任委員興華：新竹市有超過。 |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：還有呢？像彰化縣？ |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
鍾副主任委員興華：彰化縣。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：還有呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
鍾副主任委員興華：基隆。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：基隆嘛！對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
鍾副主任委員興華：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：我們不要影響到區域的名額，所以這個部分，你要用很具體的方向向所有的立法委員說明，這樣他們就會支持、不會產生疑慮，他們質詢的時候一直在談那個疑慮，對不對？所以要把它說清楚，何況本席的條文都有考量到這些，所以這個部分，原民會要加強和加油，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
鍾副主任委員興華：是，謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：以上，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
主席：非常謝謝鄭天財委員，我再特別強調，我們並沒有影響到現行一般區域議員的總額，而是外加的，所以並不會影響到目前區域議員的席次，這點要特別強調，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][1] |
繼續請張智倫委員質詢。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
338 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
聯席會議-11-1-15,36-1 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
高金素梅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
陳玉珍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
張宏陸 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
陳俊宇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
麥玉珍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
蘇巧慧 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
黃捷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
黃國昌 |
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王美惠 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
林思銘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
黃建賓 |
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李柏毅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
吳思瑤 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
牛煦庭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
許宇甄 |
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徐欣瑩 |
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張智倫 |
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吳宗憲 |
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吳琪銘 |
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王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[22] |
鍾佳濱 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[23] |
莊瑞雄 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[24] |
丁學忠 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[25] |
沈發惠 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
263 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-04-18 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1133101 |
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1133101_00010 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
一、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員鄭
天財 Sra Kacaw 等17人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員賴士葆等
20人擬具「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案」案；四、審查委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「地方制
度法增訂第七條之四條文草案」案 |
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1133101_00017 |
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主席、國務委員、有請次長、還有中副主委。兩位好。三地原住民、平地原住民的劃分已經行之有年,而且是憲法明定。所以當初, |
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39.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
51.186 |
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當初本席在擔任處長計劃處的嚴明會的企劃處處長草擬這個原住民身份法的時候就是因為憲法 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
53.238 |
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81.115 |
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還留著山地原住民跟平地原住民的規定所以在制定原住民身份法的時候必須還是有山地原住民跟平地原住民所以這個部分已經涉及到憲法的層次這是第一個第二個今天我們談地方制度法三十三條本期要特別跟這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
82.551 |
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105.789 |
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案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。四、審查委 |
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107.343 |
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134.889 |
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直轄市有原住民人口在四千人以上的一千項總額內應由原住民選出直轄市議員沒有分三三平三而且是要在總額之內在馬英九執政開始的時候因為為了因應他要提出五都五都的這個政策 |
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135.942 |
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163.784 |
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所以要修地方制度法本席那時候不是副主委民國97年98年的時候本席已經降掉紀監了降掉紀監但是本席親自跟張仁香主任委員報告是不是用這樣的機會直轄市要多成立了會涉及到臺中縣市的合併 |
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165.505 |
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193.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
台南縣市的合併、高雄縣市的合併怎麼樣因應原住民的參政權不受到影響。」所以本席提出了這個修正條文給張仁香主任委員。後來他指派我去參加內政部的會議。參加會議之前我跟這個內政部當時的次長林中生次長先溝通協調。 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
195.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
221.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
他支持按照現在的條文現在的條文就是分三言平言這樣才能夠保障因為沒辦法因為本來的台南縣市有啊有分啊包括台中縣市有分啊高雄縣市有分啊不去處理的話絕對會減少所以去做了這樣的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
222.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
250.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
而且人數本來是4000人,那就各2000,而且還比現議員的高一,現議員的是1500,所以也符合所以內政部當初就接受,而且為了避免影響總額,為了避免影響7億的議員,7億的直轄市議員的名額,所以也做了 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
251.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
280.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
不在總額之內,不影響區議的意願。」所以必須要去,嚴明會有很大的責任,因為政府也沒有那麼重大,對於政府的官員來講沒有那麼重大,但是對於原住民而言是很重大。所以原住民的,嚴明會要主動,要去溝通去協調,然後把這個方向要把它抓住,抓好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
281.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
309.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
所以今天也不是第一次審查我們上一屆審查很可惜沒有過所以這樣的一個情況之下地方立法機關組織準則對於直轄市的部分也是在不影響7億的名額不影響7億的名額其他的議員、7億的議員、立委也不會反對所以這個部分本席提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
311.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
340.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
340.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
367.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案： |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
368.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
397.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
相親族室有超過嗎?相親族室有超過還有呢?像彰化縣彰化縣還有呢?基隆基隆嘛對不對?對我們不影響不要去影響7億所以這個部分這樣的話就你用一個很具體的一個方向說明給所有的這個立法委員他們就會去支持就不會產生那個疑慮啊質詢的時候一直談那個疑慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
398.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
399.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
414.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
432.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
非常謝謝鄭天財委員在特別的強調我們並沒有在現行的一般區域的議員裡面的總額而是外加的所以並不會影響目前的區域立法議員的席次這是特別要強調的一點謝謝 |