| IVOD_ID |
151394 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151394 |
| 日期 |
2024-04-18 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
聯席會議-11-1-15,36-1 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[1] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[1] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-04-18T10:13:49+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-04-18T10:22:06+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:08:17 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b44556f2ef4fb1b71c5d8f066bc03aa2538ac5dab72e655c1c940b16ca848615eb905ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
王美惠 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:13:49 - 10:22:06 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。 三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案」案。四、審查委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「地方制度法增訂第七條之四條文草案」案。） |
| gazette.lineno |
394 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
王委員美惠：（10時13分）主席，我們請次長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：好，有請吳次長，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
吳次長容輝：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
王委員美惠：次長早，今天討論地方制度法，因為剛才有說，不管什麼事情都是因為特定人要選舉，我覺得如果有這種想法的話，這個法就修不下去了。剛才我也有聽到，我們原住民要到平地服務，以我來說，我也有服務到我們的原住民，因為長久以來我覺得服務應該是不分你我，也不分什麼黨，不管你是外來的新住民也好、客家人也好、原住民也好，如果有需要，我們都要去服務，只是差別在於這個選舉，他們覺得不是選擇自己的人，所以沒這麼積極，才會這麼被動。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][1] |
本席要跟你們討論這件事情，你們把這個草案拿出來，你們有和當地會受到影響的縣市討論過嗎？次長。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
吳次長容輝：報告委員，我是不是請我們民政司先跟您補充說明？ |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
主席：請代理司長，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
王委員美惠：好，來。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
鄭代理司長英弘：關於這個部分，我們內部一直有在研議各個版本會影響的…… |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
王委員美惠：我現在是要問你們，會被影響到的縣市，不管是他們本身的議員，像剛才所討論的，如果你們要外加的部分，縣議會議員不會影響到譬如他一個人所有的付出，包含薪水也好、助理也好，外加的是中央要出，還是地方政府出？我現在是要問，你們這樣會影響到縣市，你們有跟他們討論過嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
鄭代理司長英弘：以往有議員相關費用要不要增加的部分，我們有跟地方討論過…… |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
王委員美惠：那他們的意思呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
鄭代理司長英弘：因為涉及到地方的財政，很多都希望中央能夠補助，不過這是地方應該支出的部分。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
王委員美惠：對，你們算是有去問會受到影響的縣市，他們大部分都反對，如果外加的經費是由中央支出時，他們就願意了嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
鄭代理司長英弘：對，基本上因為涉及到議員，縣市政府大概都不會直接表達反對，但對於增加支出的部分希望中央來補助地方，基本態度大概是這樣。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
王委員美惠：對啦！這就是跟我們民代要加助理費一樣…… |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
鄭代理司長英弘：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
王委員美惠：大家都不敢反對、不敢說出真心話，就是剛才你說的這樣，沒有人會反對。不過本席要跟你討論的是，我們族群融合有需要區分山地、平地？如果是這樣，我覺得未來你們要再審慎評估一下新住民的權利和選舉；你試想，平地原住民就不要給普通的民意代表服務了，換做新住民的想法，他可能覺得自己是外來的，自己是越南人、大陸人，還是哪裡人……他們也可能需要馬來西亞人過來，有這種可能嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
鄭代理司長英弘：是，有關要不要打破山地原住民跟平地原住民，民間也大概有過這種聲音，我們也請原民會評估這方面的意見，但是基本上原民會經過討論，目前還沒有共識。 |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
王委員美惠：目前沒有共識？ |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
鄭代理司長英弘：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
王委員美惠：我最主要是說，因為要修這個法，我相信今天主席也會覺得該給他們的福利，我們要去爭取，不過我們也要平等嘛，不然我們常常說轉型正義、族群融合，常常說這陣子比較有在關心，未來……你不要說沒有喔！新住民有可能有喔！如果新住民有，之後馬來西亞也說需要一個，看你們未來要怎麼處理？所以本席在這裡提供意見，你們研議時要把順便新住民研議下去。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
鄭代理司長英弘：相關的可能性我們大概都會列入考慮，謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
王委員美惠：對啦！因為我覺得這種很難去認定，像你說的，沒有人敢反對啦！不過好的、該說的、該支持的也要支持，所以今天本席在這裡，我也支持原住民，他們覺得自己的環境和屬性需要他們自己的人來支持他參選，這個大家都沒意見。因此，我要跟政次說，我們嘉義有23個議員，現在原住民有1,292個，剛好再有200個進來之後就有1,500個了，當有一席原住民名額時，是要內含，還是要外加？這是有可能的，政次，只針對我們嘉義就好了，這樣怎麼辦？ |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
吳次長容輝：報告委員，剛剛委員提的當然也有可能，不是不可能，不過我們要就先決條件先去討論，現在委員講山原跟平原是不是要打破，也就是把它合在一塊，我想這個都可以討論，就像剛剛…… |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
王委員美惠：因為我認為族群融合、時空背景不同，以前的原住民在山上討生活非常辛苦，你也知道為什會稱之為山地原住民及平地原住民的由來，我認為政府應該要把他們融入一個大家庭，區分得太清楚也不好。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
吳次長容輝：是，這個我們會納入研議，一起討論的時候我們會…… |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
王委員美惠：針對我剛才所講的，也希望你們能夠同意，針對嘉義的部分是不是有可能？到目前為止，你看是會外加還是23個會減1個？是不是有這樣的可能性？ |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
吳次長容輝：不管是內含或外加，現在顯然外加會是一個比較可行的方案，這是以現在來看，但是還沒確定，所以我們不曉得，我們這樣評估…… |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
王委員美惠：雖然還沒確定，但是大部分都支持不動現有的席次，然後增加平地原住民的席次，這樣才對啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
吳次長容輝：以現在的方案是這樣子。 |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
王委員美惠：好，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
吳次長容輝：謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
主席：謝謝王美惠委員，謝謝次長。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][1] |
繼續請林思銘委員質詢。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
338 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
聯席會議-11-1-15,36-1 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
高金素梅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
陳玉珍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
張宏陸 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
陳俊宇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
麥玉珍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
蘇巧慧 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
黃捷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
王美惠 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
林思銘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
黃建賓 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
李柏毅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
吳思瑤 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
牛煦庭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
許宇甄 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
徐欣瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
張智倫 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
吳宗憲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
吳琪銘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[21] |
王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[22] |
鍾佳濱 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[23] |
莊瑞雄 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[24] |
丁學忠 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[25] |
沈發惠 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
263 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-04-18 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1133101 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1133101_00010 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
一、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員鄭
天財 Sra Kacaw 等17人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員賴士葆等
20人擬具「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案」案；四、審查委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「地方制
度法增訂第七條之四條文草案」案 |
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1133101_00017 |
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SPEAKER_00 |
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SPEAKER_00 |
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SPEAKER_01 |
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SPEAKER_02 |
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SPEAKER_01 |
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494.97471875 |
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495.48096875 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
3.752 |
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主席,我們請次長。好,有請吳次長,謝謝。委員好。嗨,次長,早晨。次長,今天討論我們這個地方制度法裡面,因為,剛才我說,因為,不管什麼事情,都因為特定人要選。我認為,如果有這個想法,這個想法,想不下去了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
35.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
38.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
48.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
49.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
69.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
83.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
他的選舉,他覺得我不是選我自己的人,所以沒這麼積極、這麼被動。在這裡面,我們想要跟你參考這件事說,你們在這個草案揭出來,你們如果當地會應用到的官司去討論過嗎?來,市長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
97.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
99.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
報告委員我是不是請我們民政事務部長我再訪問 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
104.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
119.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
這個部分我們內部一直有在研議說各個版本會影響的...沒有啦!我現在是要問你們說會應用到、會貫徹、不管是一般性的議員像剛才所討論的說跟現有的議員不會應用到你們要外傭的嘛在外傭裡面這個譬如說一個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
129.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
157.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
他所有的付出的薪水也好、助力也好外債是中央要出還是地方政府要出我現在是在問你你這樣在這個官司的應用中你有去跟他們討論過嗎來啦以往有這個議員的一個相關的這個費用要不要增加的部分我們有跟地方討論過 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
160.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
179.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
因為涉及到地方的財政,很多是希望說中央能夠補助,不過因為這是因為地方應該支出的一個部分。對,那你算說有應用到的關係,你有去問臺北農團隊,主要如果外債的經費是中央來支出的時候,他們又買了嗎?來 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
187.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
199.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
對,基本上因為涉及到議員的部分,縣市政府大概都不會直接表達反對,但是要增加支出的部分是希望中央來補助的。對啦,這就是跟我們明代一屆的組理會一樣啦,大家都不敢反對啦,不敢說出真心話啦,就是剛才你說的這樣啦,沒有人會反對啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
212.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
232.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
但本席要跟你討論的是,在這個我們的族群融合裡面,有需要去分三個、八個,你如果這樣未來,我是覺得你要慎慎再去評估一個,新住民的權利、他的選舉, |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
236.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
243.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
260.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
273.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
有關要不要打破三地原住民跟平地原住民,大概民間也有過這種聲音,那我們也請那個原民會評估這方面的一個意見,但是原民會大概基本上是經過討論,目前還沒有共識。 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
276.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
282.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
三、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
296.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
304.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
不然我們常常說財政正義跟族群融合,常常跟這群人有關心跟在這邊的未來,你不跟我說嗎?這新住民有可能有喔! |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
314.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
329.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
344.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
345.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
案。三、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
348.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
374.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
377.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
394.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
現在有關主民有一千兩百九十二人,那鄉鄉剛好有兩百人進來的時候,還有一千五個人,有一個關主民的時候,是要加掛在裡面,還是要外掛?有這麼可能的,甚至我如果批論說我自己就好了,這樣勒? |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
403.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
409.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
報告委員,剛剛委員提到當然這個有可能不是不可能不過就是說我們先去調整一下先去討論現在委員講說這個三眼跟平眼一起是不是要打破就把它合在一塊我想這個都可以討論因為我感覺族群融合的時候我感覺時空背景不一樣以前的觀眾朋友說實在在三年討價的生活是非常辛苦你也知道是怎樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
431.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
436.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
會合作所定的官署名及本地的官署名的由來。所以我也希望說,你們做政府的人應該是要來融入一個大家庭啦。睡了太清晨這樣也不好啦。是,這個我們會拿出原意啦,一起討論的時候。因為我剛才說的嘛, |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
456.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
456.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
471.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
481.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
不然內涵或外加,現在顯然外加是會是一個比較可行的方案,所以以現在來看,但是還沒確定我們不曉得。對,還沒確定,還是台北都支持在無黨憲議會,再給這個關注民的平台的旗幟,這樣就對了。以現在的方案是這樣子。好,謝謝你們,會議員,謝謝。 |