| IVOD_ID |
151113 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151113 |
| 日期 |
2024-04-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-35-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
12 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-04-15T10:52:12+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-04-15T11:01:46+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:09:34 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3f8a1755e5400c0eaba2b52450f31f664a895f5f60d28b50f8ba9b0039caa7a6187439edd53ab6c15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
賴士葆 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:52:12 - 11:01:46 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-04-15T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長吳釗燮報告「我國國際合作發展具體成效暨未來目標」，並備質詢。） |
| gazette.lineno |
395 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
賴委員士葆：（10時52分）謝謝主席以及各位先進，有請外交部吳部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
吳部長釗燮：賴委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
賴委員士葆：部長你好，要先恭喜你嗎？你原來做國安會秘書長，然後來做外交部長，部長做完了，又做國安會秘書長，看起來民進黨執政離不開你，永遠需要你耶！十項全能，還是只有一項？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
吳部長釗燮：沒有評論。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
賴委員士葆：什麼？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
吳部長釗燮：關於人事的問題我沒有評論。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
賴委員士葆：但是你要接國安會秘書長啦！確定了，不是嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
吳部長釗燮：有關於這方面我沒有評論。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
賴委員士葆：但是確定要接吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
吳部長釗燮：沒有評論。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
賴委員士葆：好吧！我們來看一下，你今天談的是國際合作，你在當外交部長任內，大家都知道斷交7國，蔡政府全部斷交9國，你一直強調實質外交、實質外交，好，既然邦交國都這樣斷了，我們就希望實質的、有意義的參加國際組織。CPTPP到現在沒有，我統計了，蔡英文總統只要有機會就講，拜託日本啦！拜託加拿大啦！拜託美國啦！幫我們加入CPTPP，結果沒有；ICAO也沒有；WHA，除了第一年因為馬英九還在當總統到520卸任前，那時候林奏延有之外，通通沒有。請教吳部長，做了那麼久，你不會覺得挫折嗎？我很認真的看了你今天的報告，裡面之乎也者寫很多，但是就我來講，寫這些都不如真正的參加國際的組織，你要不要講一下，我們今年有機會參加WHA嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
吳部長釗燮：謝謝委員的垂詢，有關於WHA我們會儘量來努力，今年我們大致上這種活動的規劃已經規劃得差不多了，我們會持續的來努力爭取國際社會上面對我們的支持。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
賴委員士葆：外界這樣看，大家引用前外交部長、號稱外交才子的錢復說的，沒有穩定的兩岸關係，就沒有臺灣合理的國際空間。這句話你同意嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
吳部長釗燮：有關於國際組織的參與，委員如果執著在WHA這一件事情上…… |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
賴委員士葆：不只啊！還有CPTPP，還有ICAO。 |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
吳部長釗燮：可能會miss掉很多我們在過去這段時間所參與的國際組織…… |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
賴委員士葆：這是重要的…… |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
吳部長釗燮：過去這一段時間，我們有很多的國際組織，是有一些新的可以參與的狀況…… |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
賴委員士葆：你講一個重要的。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
吳部長釗燮：委員要不要聽一聽我們國組司來跟你說？ |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
賴委員士葆：沒有，我時間有限，你講一個重要的國際組織，哪一個？一個就好了。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
吳部長釗燮：很多啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
賴委員士葆：一個就好了。 |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
吳部長釗燮：很多。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
賴委員士葆：就講一個就好了。 |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
吳部長釗燮：就跟你講有很多。 |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
賴委員士葆：你講很多、很多，你也是留學美國，就知道name a few，我不要name a few，我name only one，如果沒有的話…… |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
吳部長釗燮：我如果講一個的話，委員就可以讓我們…… |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
賴委員士葆：你講一個，我就跳到其他題目了。 |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
吳部長釗燮：IPETCA。 |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
賴委員士葆：IPETCA是什麼？ |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
吳部長釗燮：原住民族經貿合作的國際組織。 |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
賴委員士葆：誰host？ |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
吳部長釗燮：我們臺灣跟其他的三個國家共同host。 |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
賴委員士葆：哪三個國家？ |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
吳部長釗燮：澳洲、加拿大、紐西蘭。 |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
賴委員士葆：一起host，參加的幾個？ |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
吳部長釗燮：這個是我們一起…… |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
賴委員士葆：全部加入的。 |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
吳部長釗燮：這個是我們一起組成的國際組織。 |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
賴委員士葆：只有三個而已？ |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
吳部長釗燮：就我剛剛講的四個國家，你怎麼會說三個？ |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
賴委員士葆：我剛才說你是host，你主持，還要加入其他的會員國啊！有嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
吳部長釗燮：就四個國家共同成立的。 |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
賴委員士葆：四個，這樣太少啦！好啦！你講這個東西，我是都聽不懂啦！沒關係，讓你這樣講，你就說多偉大、多偉大，但是老百姓看到的是斷交了9國，我們關心的CPTPP，美國萊豬也吃了、日本核食也吃了、加拿大有可能狂牛症的牛也吃了，結果什麼都沒有，英國跟我們同時申請加入，結果英國有，我們沒有。 |
| gazette.blocks[45][1] |
你今天的報告特別寫了一個，說要傳達以人為本的核心價值，你寫的你知道嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
吳部長釗燮：嗯。 |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
賴委員士葆：馬習二會習近平說了鼓勵大陸人民來臺灣走一走、看一看，這一句話你支持嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
吳部長釗燮：他如果能夠這樣子做的話當然很好啦！但是有關於中國的團客，他們都還沒有開放。 |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
賴委員士葆：說不定馬上開放了。 |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
吳部長釗燮：他講之後還要再看他做。 |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
賴委員士葆：所以我們6月起禁赴陸團，假如他真的開放了，我們要不要解禁？ |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
吳部長釗燮：這不是我們外交部的工作。 |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
賴委員士葆：你要接國安會秘書長，今天你沒有接國安會秘書長，我不會問你這個問題。 |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
吳部長釗燮：但是我現在還是外交部長的這個身分，我會做到最後一天，有關於中國還沒有解禁臺灣這邊…… |
| gazette.blocks[55][0] |
賴委員士葆：未來我們外交的最高戰略，你是親美、友日，這個都沒問題；和中，就是大陸，要不要？還是就是反中、抗中？ |
| gazette.blocks[56][0] |
吳部長釗燮：我們以整體的國家利益來衡量我們的外交政策。 |
| gazette.blocks[57][0] |
賴委員士葆：中國大陸呢？你未來接國安會秘書長，你要繼續過去的抗中，還是現在不太一樣呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[58][0] |
吳部長釗燮：委員不需要用這種標籤標在我的頭上，我在這邊工作一天…… |
| gazette.blocks[59][0] |
賴委員士葆：你不抗中？ |
| gazette.blocks[60][0] |
吳部長釗燮：我就是為了我們臺灣最高的外交利益來做我的政策。 |
| gazette.blocks[61][0] |
賴委員士葆：美國國務院跟外交有關係吧！美國國務院肯定馬習二會，請問你要不要肯定？ |
| gazette.blocks[62][0] |
吳部長釗燮：那個是錯誤的標題，你如果去看報導的內容…… |
| gazette.blocks[63][0] |
賴委員士葆：我認真看了。 |
| gazette.blocks[64][0] |
吳部長釗燮：國務院講的部分跟那個標題是不一樣的。 |
| gazette.blocks[65][0] |
賴委員士葆：它沒有肯定，是不是？那你同不同意馬習二會馬英九搭起了兩岸和平之橋？ |
| gazette.blocks[66][0] |
吳部長釗燮：我看到的是中國對我們的外交打壓、對我們的軍事壓力沒有絲毫的降低。 |
| gazette.blocks[67][0] |
賴委員士葆：好，外交打壓從盤古開天它就一直打壓，這是constant，沒有降低兩岸的緊張關係嗎？讓我把這個講完，很快。有沒有降低兩岸關係？ |
| gazette.blocks[68][0] |
吳部長釗燮：我沒有看到兩岸的緊張關係或者是中國對臺灣的威脅有降低。 |
| gazette.blocks[69][0] |
賴委員士葆：我跟你講一段，大陸的學者及美國的學者說了，這次馬習二會對於兩岸關係沒有改變，對於整個和平沒有改變，但是有效降低大陸內部武統的聲音，也就是短期打仗的機會大幅降低，這就是馬英九的貢獻，怎麼不是呢？難道你不要肯定一下嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[70][0] |
吳部長釗燮：有關委員的這個意見，我想應該要由社會大眾來看待…… |
| gazette.blocks[71][0] |
賴委員士葆：我引用美國的學者講的，所以你都不肯定馬英九這一趟？沒辦法肯定？ |
| gazette.blocks[72][0] |
吳部長釗燮：我想有關於外交部的部分還是必須要去努力處理外交的作為，涉及到兩岸的部分，這不是外交的工作。 |
| gazette.blocks[73][0] |
賴委員士葆：你要接國安會秘書長了，不然我就不會問你了。最後一句話，馬英九在習近平面前敢講中華民國、敢講一中各表，習近平在馬英九面前沒有講統一、沒有講一國兩制，這難道不是馬英九的貢獻嗎？你也要摸摸良心說心裡話。 |
| gazette.blocks[74][0] |
吳部長釗燮：多謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[75][0] |
主席：好，謝謝，因為部長等一下要先離開，還有…… |
| gazette.blocks[76][0] |
賴委員士葆：他要離開，是嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[77][0] |
主席：他待會要離開。 |
| gazette.blocks[78][0] |
賴委員士葆：好。重要的你都沒有回答我。 |
| gazette.blocks[79][0] |
吳部長釗燮：多謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[80][0] |
主席：改天再排。 |
| gazette.blocks[80][1] |
接下來請黃國昌委員上臺質詢。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
122 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-1-35-12 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
馬文君 |
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沈伯洋 |
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林楚茵 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
羅美玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
王定宇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
陳冠廷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
洪申翰 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
林憶君 |
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賴士葆 |
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黃國昌 |
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王鴻薇 |
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牛煦庭 |
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洪孟楷 |
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張啓楷 |
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徐巧芯 |
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陳永康 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
黃仁 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
73 |
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2024-04-15 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1132701 |
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立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
邀請外交部部長吳釗燮報告「我國國際合作發展具體成效暨未來目標」，並備質詢 |
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謝謝主席以及各位先進有請外交部的吳部長請部長賴委員好部長你好這個要先恭喜你嗎是不是你這個原來做國安會秘書長然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
25.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
34.306 |
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來 做外交部長 部長又做完了 呃 做 這個國安會秘書長 嘖 看起來 民進黨執政離不開你欸 永遠需要你欸十項全能的 對啊還是只有一項 外交 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
41.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
44.864 |
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你今天談的是國際合作你在當外交部長任內大家都知道斷交七國然後財政府的全部斷交九國 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
69.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
72.776 |
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你一直強調實質外交實質外交好我們就希望既然這個邦交國都這樣斷了吧我們希望實質的有意義的參加國際組織CPTPP我給他統計了蔡英文總統只要有機會就講拜託日本啦拜託加拿大啦拜託美國啦幫我們加入CPTPP結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
99.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
99.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
吳釗燮報告吳釗燮報告吳釗燮報告吳釗燮報告吳釗燮報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
128.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
129.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
賴士葆 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
147.069 |
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149.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
外界這樣看大家是回應大家引誘前外交部長號稱外交才子的前副說了沒有穩定的兩岸關係就沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
177.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
180.115 |
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臺灣合理的國際空間這句話你同意嗎我想有關於那個外交的國際組織的這個參與那我想委員如果說執著在WHA的這件事情可能會可能會miss掉很多我們在過去這段時間所參與的這個國際的這個組織 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
201.495 |
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227.061 |
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委員講一個很重要的好不好?你講一個重要的講一個重要的委員要不要聽一聽我們國土時代跟人家說?你講一個重要的國際組織哪一個?一個一個就好了一個就好了很多啦一個就好了很多阿就講一個就好了你就公佈出來阿就跟你講一個很多阿跟你講很多很多很多是人 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
228.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
250.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
你也是留學美國的知道Name a few我不要Name a few我Name only oneOK 如果我我如果講一個的話委員就可以讓我們那個說沒有你講一個我就跳到其他題目了好 IPECAIPECA是什麼援助民族經貿合作的這個國際組織SURHOST |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
253.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
266.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
我們台灣跟其他的三個國家共同共組澳洲加拿大紐西蘭一起host參加的幾個這個是我們一起組成的國際組織這個是我們一起組成的國際組織只有三個而已我剛剛講了四個國家你來講三個我講你是host你主持還有加入其他的會員國 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
279.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
284.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
阿就四個國家共同成立的四個阿太久了好啦好啦我提到第二個題目啦齁你講了齁這些東西這些我是都聽不到啦沒關係啦你就說你怎麼說你就說多會大多會大但是老百姓看到的是端交了九國我們很關心的CPTPP |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
299.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
302.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
美國萊豬也吃了日本和食也吃了加拿大的有可能狂牛症的牛也吃了結果什麼都沒有英國跟我們同時加入申請結果英國有我們沒有好你的報告特別寫一個今天報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
316.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
320.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
習近平說了鼓勵大陸人民來台灣走一走看一看這句話你支持嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
337.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
354.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
他如果能夠這樣子做的話當然很好啦但是他們那個有關於中國的這個團課他們都還沒有開放欸現在都說不定馬上開放了啊他講之後還要再看他再看他齁所以我們六月進入進赴日團要不要解禁假如他真的開放了我們要不要解禁請問你 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
363.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
363.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
吳釗燮報告:「我國國際合作發展具體成效暨未來目標．並備質詢。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
388.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
389.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
有日這個都沒問題合衝要不要對大陸要不要還是反衝抗衝我們以整體的國家利益來衡量我們的這個外交政策對中華大陸呢你要未來要解國安徽秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
405.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
422.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
你要繼續的過去抗中還是說現在不太一樣呢那個委員不需要用這種標籤標在我的頭上我在這邊工作一天我就是為了我們台灣的最高的外交的這個利益來做我的政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
423.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
443.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
好那你外交美國國務院跟外交有關係嗎肯定嗎是二會請問你要不要肯定那個是錯誤的標題喔錯誤的標題你如果去看報導的內容國務院講的部分跟那個標題是不一樣的還沒有肯定沒有肯定是不是那你站不站你同不同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
444.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
460.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
馬錫二輝馬英九搭行的兩岸和平之橋有沒有同意不同意我看到這是中國對我們的這個外交打壓對我們的軍事壓力沒有絲毫的降低外交打壓從盤古開的那顆去打壓啦這是本來這是constant沒有降低兩岸的緊張關係嗎那我把這個講完了很快沒有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
469.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
483.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
有沒有降低兩岸關係沒有看到那個我們兩岸的這個我跟妳講一段一段的學者大陸的學者以及大陸的學者以及美國的學者說了說了這一次馬希奧會對於兩岸關係沒有改變對於整個的和平沒有改變但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
498.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
510.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
有效降低大陸內部武統的聲音也就是短期打仗的機會大幅降低這就是馬英九的貢獻了怎麼不是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
511.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
539.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
這人道你不要肯定一下嗎那個有關委員的這個意見的話那我想應該要由社會大眾來看待啦我是說引用美國的學者講的咧所以你都不肯定馬英九這一趟沒辦法肯定有關於外交部的部分還是必須要去努力處理外交的這些作為涉及到兩岸的部分這個不是外交的這個工作你要借國安委秘書長的啦不然我就不用你啦最後一句話 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
541.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
549.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
馬英九在習近平面前敢講中華民國敢講一中各表習近平在馬英九面前沒有講統一沒有講一國兩制這難道不是馬英九的貢獻嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
555.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
558.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
你也要默默良心來講一個心裡話呢 |