| IVOD_ID |
150740 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150740 |
| 日期 |
2024-04-01 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
聯席會議-11-1-19,23-1 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期經濟、交通兩委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[1] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[1] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
立法院第11屆第1會期經濟、交通兩委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-04-01T10:59:02+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-04-01T11:06:03+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:07:01 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01d093d00f1a07c00bc77fe72f062cb40ac6c5f5acaf79d9f8ba9b0039caa7a686cf5dcbc0b7422b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
林俊憲 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:59:02 - 11:06:03 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-04-01T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期經濟、交通兩委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查本院委員傅崐萁等53人擬具「環島高速鐵路建設特別條例草案」案。(詢答及處理)） |
| gazette.lineno |
467 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
林委員俊憲：（10時59分）好，謝謝主席。本席邀請國發會龔主委、交通部胡次長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：我們請兩位，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：林委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
林委員俊憲：主委好，我們今天一起來關心，其實主要是臺灣整個環島的交通，尤其是花東地區跟西部的交通連結，政府目前為了要達到這樣的交通改善，我們過去是做西部高鐵、東部快鐵。我先請教交通部，東部快鐵就是所謂的花蓮、臺東之間的路廊提升，更換軌距，主要是臺鐵啦！包括很多地方要立體化，搭配電氣化和雙軌工程，目標就是希望東部的鐵路時速可以達到160公里，目標的旅程時間就是臺北到花蓮90分鐘、高雄到臺東90分鐘，目前這個工程進行如何？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
胡次長湘麟：目前我們正在做相關的作業，包括臺北到花蓮這一段，其實未來要靠臺北到宜蘭的高鐵，然後後面再去做花蓮到臺東，或者臺東到屏東的部分，分別要靠其他的幾個鐵路改善計畫…… |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
林委員俊憲：因為你們東部的快鐵做好，再加上我們的高鐵延伸到宜蘭、延伸到屏東，這樣的一個交通大概就會看到很明顯的改善，是不是這樣子？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
胡次長湘麟：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
林委員俊憲：好，那我請問你目前的核定，我剛聽龔主委講，這兩個高鐵的延伸線，南北大概都進入到中規的時候，就是中程的規劃報告了嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
胡次長湘麟：目前我們正在辦理綜合規劃跟環境影響評估。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
林委員俊憲：延伸到屏東要花多少錢？我看交通部報告大概要620億，延伸到宜蘭要1,880億，這兩條延伸線要花多少錢？2,500億啊！我們不反對交通改善，其實我的重點在於不能隨便製造錢坑法案啊！高鐵的財務有沒有自主，還是靠政府補貼？ |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
胡次長湘麟：目前來講並沒有補貼。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
林委員俊憲：高鐵的財務是自主，新的南北延長線要2,500億，要不要回收、要不要收支平衡？高鐵的財務是個負擔，我都怕高鐵漲價啊！再蓋一個花東高鐵大概有兩個因素，第一個，我認為要優先考慮的是財政問題，高鐵能不能負擔財政？第二個，蓋那個是很複雜的，地質調查要不要？另外還有我講的財政、環評，甚至通過原民部落。最後，我看傅崐萁提的這個法案說要10年，10年可以完成嗎？他根本在昧於事實嘛！這有可能嗎？綁一個10年，怎麼可能10年做得起來？而且還要土地徵收，土地徵收是最困難的，縣市政府還要配合的，你們做得起來嗎？10年給它綁在那裡。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][1] |
還有錢坑法案的問題，你剛剛講臺鐵正在蓋東部快鐵，對不對？我給你看一下，你知道臺鐵靠什麼活下去嗎？臺鐵現在還能賺錢啊！它最賺錢的前幾個單位就是在花蓮、玉里、臺東，這些都賺錢，花蓮賺的錢還比直轄市六都裡面的高雄賺得多啊！臺鐵什麼時候開始幾乎快倒閉，你知道嗎？以時間差距來看，臺鐵的財政急速惡化，2007年1月5號高鐵通車，臺鐵財政就很不好了、很吃力，因為競爭不了、贏不了高鐵嘛！現在再蓋下去的話，我看臺鐵會不會倒閉啊？臺鐵會倒閉嗎？高鐵本身就有財政的問題喔！高鐵如果真的去蓋，就是傅崐萁提的，10年去蓋一個東部高鐵，加上現在南北延伸線的2,500億，蓋東部我也不知道多少錢。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][2] |
然後我跟你講，臺鐵怎麼辦？臺鐵現在東部快鐵正在投資，是不是？你剛才說那邊正在蓋嘛！蓋完之後，我剛才說臺鐵會倒閉嗎？普悠瑪、太魯閣那些都收起來。兩位的看法是怎樣？臺鐵遇到高鐵就穩死的嘛！要不然你就做一個，現在東部快鐵也是立法院通過的啊！那個時候也是因為要改善東部交通，國民黨也沒有反對啊！藍綠都同意啊！大家去蓋東部快鐵，目前才正要蓋，現在卻又要蓋一個高鐵，那怎麼辦？財政沒有負擔嗎？你現在什麼都搞不清楚，就要編一個10年，請問龔主委的看法？ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：報告委員，所以我們為什麼講所有的交通建設都要循序漸進，現在高鐵的部分，就是把延伸線到屏東跟宜蘭的部分先做好，同時間快鐵也在改善，如果說大家認為這樣的情況已經可以滿足一日生活圈了，但當然也可能有更大的夢想，那就可以啟動可行性來評估看看。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
林委員俊憲：我認為財政要循序漸進啦！錢坑法案一定會害死臺灣的，你不要以為高鐵現在經營得不錯，高鐵在2008年差點倒閉耶！你記得嗎？高鐵如果沒有那次的財政改善計畫，高鐵也倒了，2008年高鐵也陷入很危險的狀況。現在高鐵再投資2,500億在宜蘭跟屏東的延伸線，現在10年內要再搞一個環島高鐵，我擔心的是錢坑法案啦！甚至南北延伸線以後，高鐵若不漲價，我看它的財政會受不了啦！我不曉得到時候傅崐萁會不會再提一個高鐵凍漲案，那錢要從哪來？大家都喊爽的，都不用考慮財政的問題。我們主席站起來了，謝謝主席啦！我時間到了，謝謝兩位。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
主席：謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][1] |
接下來請何欣純委員做詢答。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
62 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
聯席會議-11-1-19,23-1 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
傅崐萁 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
邱議瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
呂玉玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
張嘉郡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
張啓楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
鄭正鈐 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
林國成 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
林沛祥 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
蔡其昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
徐富癸 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
賴瑞隆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
林俊憲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
何欣純 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
邱若華 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
陳超明 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
陳素月 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
蔡易餘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
陳亭妃 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[21] |
邱志偉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[22] |
李昆澤 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[23] |
游顥 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[24] |
廖先翔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[25] |
鍾佳濱 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[26] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[27] |
林岱樺 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[28] |
魯明哲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[29] |
黃仁 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[30] |
黃健豪 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[31] |
黃建賓 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[32] |
謝衣鳯 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
1 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-04-01 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1132301 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1132301_00002 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期經濟、交通兩委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
審查本院委員傅崐萁等53人擬具「環島高速鐵路建設特別條例草案」案（詢答及處理） |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
1132301_00001 |
| transcript.pyannote[0].speaker |
SPEAKER_01 |
| transcript.pyannote[0].start |
0.03096875 |
| transcript.pyannote[0].end |
2.08971875 |
| transcript.pyannote[1].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[1].start |
6.02159375 |
| transcript.pyannote[1].end |
9.48096875 |
| transcript.pyannote[2].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[2].start |
9.85221875 |
| transcript.pyannote[2].end |
11.20221875 |
| transcript.pyannote[3].speaker |
SPEAKER_01 |
| transcript.pyannote[3].start |
11.75909375 |
| transcript.pyannote[3].end |
12.90659375 |
| transcript.pyannote[4].speaker |
SPEAKER_02 |
| transcript.pyannote[4].start |
18.45846875 |
| transcript.pyannote[4].end |
19.08284375 |
| transcript.pyannote[5].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[5].start |
19.33596875 |
| transcript.pyannote[5].end |
19.84221875 |
| transcript.pyannote[6].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[6].start |
20.36534375 |
| transcript.pyannote[6].end |
22.12034375 |
| transcript.pyannote[7].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[7].start |
22.35659375 |
| transcript.pyannote[7].end |
23.45346875 |
| transcript.pyannote[8].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[8].start |
23.84159375 |
| transcript.pyannote[8].end |
30.08534375 |
| transcript.pyannote[9].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[9].start |
30.57471875 |
| transcript.pyannote[9].end |
32.29596875 |
| transcript.pyannote[10].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[10].start |
33.30846875 |
| transcript.pyannote[10].end |
33.91596875 |
| transcript.pyannote[11].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[11].start |
34.33784375 |
| transcript.pyannote[11].end |
39.46784375 |
| transcript.pyannote[12].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[12].start |
39.68721875 |
| transcript.pyannote[12].end |
41.07096875 |
| transcript.pyannote[13].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[13].start |
41.22284375 |
| transcript.pyannote[13].end |
44.80034375 |
| transcript.pyannote[14].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[14].start |
44.96909375 |
| transcript.pyannote[14].end |
46.01534375 |
| transcript.pyannote[15].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[15].start |
46.26846875 |
| transcript.pyannote[15].end |
51.70221875 |
| transcript.pyannote[16].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[16].start |
52.05659375 |
| transcript.pyannote[16].end |
53.94659375 |
| transcript.pyannote[17].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[17].start |
54.28409375 |
| transcript.pyannote[17].end |
56.32596875 |
| transcript.pyannote[18].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[18].start |
56.61284375 |
| transcript.pyannote[18].end |
58.03034375 |
| transcript.pyannote[19].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[19].start |
58.33409375 |
| transcript.pyannote[19].end |
61.35471875 |
| transcript.pyannote[20].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[20].start |
62.11409375 |
| transcript.pyannote[20].end |
70.07909375 |
| transcript.pyannote[21].speaker |
SPEAKER_01 |
| transcript.pyannote[21].start |
70.77096875 |
| transcript.pyannote[21].end |
75.07409375 |
| transcript.pyannote[22].speaker |
SPEAKER_01 |
| transcript.pyannote[22].start |
75.54659375 |
| transcript.pyannote[22].end |
80.35596875 |
| transcript.pyannote[23].speaker |
SPEAKER_01 |
| transcript.pyannote[23].start |
80.72721875 |
| transcript.pyannote[23].end |
90.04221875 |
| transcript.pyannote[24].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[24].start |
88.28721875 |
| transcript.pyannote[24].end |
93.33284375 |
| transcript.pyannote[25].speaker |
SPEAKER_01 |
| transcript.pyannote[25].start |
90.97034375 |
| transcript.pyannote[25].end |
91.00409375 |
| transcript.pyannote[26].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[26].start |
93.55221875 |
| transcript.pyannote[26].end |
95.13846875 |
| transcript.pyannote[27].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[27].start |
96.23534375 |
| transcript.pyannote[27].end |
97.39971875 |
| transcript.pyannote[28].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[28].start |
97.60221875 |
| transcript.pyannote[28].end |
99.89721875 |
| transcript.pyannote[29].speaker |
SPEAKER_01 |
| transcript.pyannote[29].start |
99.89721875 |
| transcript.pyannote[29].end |
100.04909375 |
| transcript.pyannote[30].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[30].start |
100.04909375 |
| transcript.pyannote[30].end |
100.70721875 |
| transcript.pyannote[31].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[31].start |
100.72409375 |
| transcript.pyannote[31].end |
100.75784375 |
| transcript.pyannote[32].speaker |
SPEAKER_01 |
| transcript.pyannote[32].start |
100.75784375 |
| transcript.pyannote[32].end |
101.11221875 |
| transcript.pyannote[33].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[33].start |
101.11221875 |
| transcript.pyannote[33].end |
106.34346875 |
| transcript.pyannote[34].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[34].start |
106.56284375 |
| transcript.pyannote[34].end |
112.63784375 |
| transcript.pyannote[35].speaker |
SPEAKER_01 |
| transcript.pyannote[35].start |
112.77284375 |
| transcript.pyannote[35].end |
116.29971875 |
| transcript.pyannote[36].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[36].start |
116.50221875 |
| transcript.pyannote[36].end |
117.97034375 |
| transcript.pyannote[37].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[37].start |
118.30784375 |
| transcript.pyannote[37].end |
120.68721875 |
| transcript.pyannote[38].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[38].start |
121.41284375 |
| transcript.pyannote[38].end |
124.18034375 |
| transcript.pyannote[39].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[39].start |
124.75409375 |
| transcript.pyannote[39].end |
126.61034375 |
| transcript.pyannote[40].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[40].start |
126.91409375 |
| transcript.pyannote[40].end |
128.09534375 |
| transcript.pyannote[41].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[41].start |
128.73659375 |
| transcript.pyannote[41].end |
130.18784375 |
| transcript.pyannote[42].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[42].start |
131.14971875 |
| transcript.pyannote[42].end |
133.12409375 |
| transcript.pyannote[43].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[43].start |
133.32659375 |
| transcript.pyannote[43].end |
135.67221875 |
| transcript.pyannote[44].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[44].start |
136.76909375 |
| transcript.pyannote[44].end |
137.73096875 |
| transcript.pyannote[45].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[45].start |
138.43971875 |
| transcript.pyannote[45].end |
139.08096875 |
| transcript.pyannote[46].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[46].start |
139.36784375 |
| transcript.pyannote[46].end |
140.36346875 |
| transcript.pyannote[47].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[47].start |
142.03409375 |
| transcript.pyannote[47].end |
142.05096875 |
| transcript.pyannote[48].speaker |
SPEAKER_01 |
| transcript.pyannote[48].start |
142.05096875 |
| transcript.pyannote[48].end |
142.06784375 |
| transcript.pyannote[49].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[49].start |
142.06784375 |
| transcript.pyannote[49].end |
143.18159375 |
| transcript.pyannote[50].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[50].start |
143.89034375 |
| transcript.pyannote[50].end |
144.56534375 |
| transcript.pyannote[51].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[51].start |
145.12221875 |
| transcript.pyannote[51].end |
146.45534375 |
| transcript.pyannote[52].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[52].start |
147.55221875 |
| transcript.pyannote[52].end |
147.85596875 |
| transcript.pyannote[53].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[53].start |
148.49721875 |
| transcript.pyannote[53].end |
151.29846875 |
| transcript.pyannote[54].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[54].start |
152.47971875 |
| transcript.pyannote[54].end |
153.25596875 |
| transcript.pyannote[55].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[55].start |
153.99846875 |
| transcript.pyannote[55].end |
154.99409375 |
| transcript.pyannote[56].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[56].start |
155.65221875 |
| transcript.pyannote[56].end |
157.40721875 |
| transcript.pyannote[57].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[57].start |
158.13284375 |
| transcript.pyannote[57].end |
159.63471875 |
| transcript.pyannote[58].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[58].start |
160.83284375 |
| transcript.pyannote[58].end |
161.79471875 |
| transcript.pyannote[59].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[59].start |
162.06471875 |
| transcript.pyannote[59].end |
162.95909375 |
| transcript.pyannote[60].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[60].start |
164.19096875 |
| transcript.pyannote[60].end |
167.51534375 |
| transcript.pyannote[61].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[61].start |
168.78096875 |
| transcript.pyannote[61].end |
170.48534375 |
| transcript.pyannote[62].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[62].start |
171.75096875 |
| transcript.pyannote[62].end |
172.22346875 |
| transcript.pyannote[63].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[63].start |
172.74659375 |
| transcript.pyannote[63].end |
175.83471875 |
| transcript.pyannote[64].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[64].start |
176.32409375 |
| transcript.pyannote[64].end |
178.34909375 |
| transcript.pyannote[65].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[65].start |
178.38284375 |
| transcript.pyannote[65].end |
179.39534375 |
| transcript.pyannote[66].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[66].start |
179.74971875 |
| transcript.pyannote[66].end |
181.31909375 |
| transcript.pyannote[67].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[67].start |
182.14596875 |
| transcript.pyannote[67].end |
182.71971875 |
| transcript.pyannote[68].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[68].start |
183.00659375 |
| transcript.pyannote[68].end |
183.31034375 |
| transcript.pyannote[69].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[69].start |
184.22159375 |
| transcript.pyannote[69].end |
184.81221875 |
| transcript.pyannote[70].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[70].start |
185.63909375 |
| transcript.pyannote[70].end |
188.54159375 |
| transcript.pyannote[71].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[71].start |
189.11534375 |
| transcript.pyannote[71].end |
190.56659375 |
| transcript.pyannote[72].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[72].start |
191.37659375 |
| transcript.pyannote[72].end |
192.45659375 |
| transcript.pyannote[73].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[73].start |
192.99659375 |
| transcript.pyannote[73].end |
195.96659375 |
| transcript.pyannote[74].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[74].start |
196.30409375 |
| transcript.pyannote[74].end |
197.16471875 |
| transcript.pyannote[75].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[75].start |
197.75534375 |
| transcript.pyannote[75].end |
198.04221875 |
| transcript.pyannote[76].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[76].start |
198.19409375 |
| transcript.pyannote[76].end |
199.51034375 |
| transcript.pyannote[77].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[77].start |
200.94471875 |
| transcript.pyannote[77].end |
201.58596875 |
| transcript.pyannote[78].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[78].start |
202.90221875 |
| transcript.pyannote[78].end |
203.94846875 |
| transcript.pyannote[79].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[79].start |
204.74159375 |
| transcript.pyannote[79].end |
205.56846875 |
| transcript.pyannote[80].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[80].start |
205.87221875 |
| transcript.pyannote[80].end |
206.61471875 |
| transcript.pyannote[81].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[81].start |
207.12096875 |
| transcript.pyannote[81].end |
208.94346875 |
| transcript.pyannote[82].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[82].start |
209.70284375 |
| transcript.pyannote[82].end |
211.60971875 |
| transcript.pyannote[83].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[83].start |
213.16221875 |
| transcript.pyannote[83].end |
215.84534375 |
| transcript.pyannote[84].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[84].start |
216.89159375 |
| transcript.pyannote[84].end |
217.26284375 |
| transcript.pyannote[85].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[85].start |
217.60034375 |
| transcript.pyannote[85].end |
218.76471875 |
| transcript.pyannote[86].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[86].start |
219.49034375 |
| transcript.pyannote[86].end |
221.11034375 |
| transcript.pyannote[87].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[87].start |
221.97096875 |
| transcript.pyannote[87].end |
223.50659375 |
| transcript.pyannote[88].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[88].start |
223.82721875 |
| transcript.pyannote[88].end |
224.78909375 |
| transcript.pyannote[89].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[89].start |
224.99159375 |
| transcript.pyannote[89].end |
226.00409375 |
| transcript.pyannote[90].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[90].start |
226.45971875 |
| transcript.pyannote[90].end |
227.47221875 |
| transcript.pyannote[91].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[91].start |
228.02909375 |
| transcript.pyannote[91].end |
229.12596875 |
| transcript.pyannote[92].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[92].start |
229.81784375 |
| transcript.pyannote[92].end |
230.54346875 |
| transcript.pyannote[93].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[93].start |
230.89784375 |
| transcript.pyannote[93].end |
234.23909375 |
| transcript.pyannote[94].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[94].start |
234.34034375 |
| transcript.pyannote[94].end |
236.34846875 |
| transcript.pyannote[95].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[95].start |
238.50846875 |
| transcript.pyannote[95].end |
240.12846875 |
| transcript.pyannote[96].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[96].start |
240.19596875 |
| transcript.pyannote[96].end |
241.27596875 |
| transcript.pyannote[97].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[97].start |
241.73159375 |
| transcript.pyannote[97].end |
242.18721875 |
| transcript.pyannote[98].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[98].start |
242.91284375 |
| transcript.pyannote[98].end |
248.14409375 |
| transcript.pyannote[99].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[99].start |
248.46471875 |
| transcript.pyannote[99].end |
250.05096875 |
| transcript.pyannote[100].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[100].start |
250.79346875 |
| transcript.pyannote[100].end |
251.41784375 |
| transcript.pyannote[101].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[101].start |
251.55284375 |
| transcript.pyannote[101].end |
252.12659375 |
| transcript.pyannote[102].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[102].start |
252.98721875 |
| transcript.pyannote[102].end |
254.52284375 |
| transcript.pyannote[103].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[103].start |
255.50159375 |
| transcript.pyannote[103].end |
257.52659375 |
| transcript.pyannote[104].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[104].start |
258.89346875 |
| transcript.pyannote[104].end |
260.32784375 |
| transcript.pyannote[105].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[105].start |
261.84659375 |
| transcript.pyannote[105].end |
263.02784375 |
| transcript.pyannote[106].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[106].start |
264.17534375 |
| transcript.pyannote[106].end |
264.95159375 |
| transcript.pyannote[107].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[107].start |
266.26784375 |
| transcript.pyannote[107].end |
268.02284375 |
| transcript.pyannote[108].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[108].start |
268.36034375 |
| transcript.pyannote[108].end |
269.47409375 |
| transcript.pyannote[109].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[109].start |
270.23346875 |
| transcript.pyannote[109].end |
272.74784375 |
| transcript.pyannote[110].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[110].start |
273.20346875 |
| transcript.pyannote[110].end |
277.99596875 |
| transcript.pyannote[111].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[111].start |
280.22346875 |
| transcript.pyannote[111].end |
280.69596875 |
| transcript.pyannote[112].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[112].start |
280.94909375 |
| transcript.pyannote[112].end |
281.59034375 |
| transcript.pyannote[113].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[113].start |
281.67471875 |
| transcript.pyannote[113].end |
282.60284375 |
| transcript.pyannote[114].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[114].start |
283.39596875 |
| transcript.pyannote[114].end |
284.00346875 |
| transcript.pyannote[115].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[115].start |
284.22284375 |
| transcript.pyannote[115].end |
285.99471875 |
| transcript.pyannote[116].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[116].start |
286.34909375 |
| transcript.pyannote[116].end |
286.77096875 |
| transcript.pyannote[117].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[117].start |
287.27721875 |
| transcript.pyannote[117].end |
288.47534375 |
| transcript.pyannote[118].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[118].start |
289.09971875 |
| transcript.pyannote[118].end |
291.00659375 |
| transcript.pyannote[119].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[119].start |
291.66471875 |
| transcript.pyannote[119].end |
293.99346875 |
| transcript.pyannote[120].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[120].start |
295.59659375 |
| transcript.pyannote[120].end |
296.84534375 |
| transcript.pyannote[121].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[121].start |
298.31346875 |
| transcript.pyannote[121].end |
299.02221875 |
| transcript.pyannote[122].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[122].start |
299.64659375 |
| transcript.pyannote[122].end |
301.01346875 |
| transcript.pyannote[123].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[123].start |
302.44784375 |
| transcript.pyannote[123].end |
303.27471875 |
| transcript.pyannote[124].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[124].start |
304.45596875 |
| transcript.pyannote[124].end |
304.97909375 |
| transcript.pyannote[125].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[125].start |
305.53596875 |
| transcript.pyannote[125].end |
307.27409375 |
| transcript.pyannote[126].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[126].start |
308.38784375 |
| transcript.pyannote[126].end |
310.49721875 |
| transcript.pyannote[127].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[127].start |
311.15534375 |
| transcript.pyannote[127].end |
312.20159375 |
| transcript.pyannote[128].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[128].start |
313.07909375 |
| transcript.pyannote[128].end |
314.02409375 |
| transcript.pyannote[129].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[129].start |
314.71596875 |
| transcript.pyannote[129].end |
315.50909375 |
| transcript.pyannote[130].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[130].start |
315.74534375 |
| transcript.pyannote[130].end |
318.31034375 |
| transcript.pyannote[131].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[131].start |
320.28471875 |
| transcript.pyannote[131].end |
320.79096875 |
| transcript.pyannote[132].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[132].start |
321.19596875 |
| transcript.pyannote[132].end |
322.44471875 |
| transcript.pyannote[133].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[133].start |
324.40221875 |
| transcript.pyannote[133].end |
325.00971875 |
| transcript.pyannote[134].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[134].start |
325.92096875 |
| transcript.pyannote[134].end |
326.15721875 |
| transcript.pyannote[135].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[135].start |
326.81534375 |
| transcript.pyannote[135].end |
328.35096875 |
| transcript.pyannote[136].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[136].start |
328.43534375 |
| transcript.pyannote[136].end |
329.48159375 |
| transcript.pyannote[137].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[137].start |
330.40971875 |
| transcript.pyannote[137].end |
331.47284375 |
| transcript.pyannote[138].speaker |
SPEAKER_02 |
| transcript.pyannote[138].start |
332.01284375 |
| transcript.pyannote[138].end |
332.11409375 |
| transcript.pyannote[139].speaker |
SPEAKER_02 |
| transcript.pyannote[139].start |
332.13096875 |
| transcript.pyannote[139].end |
332.14784375 |
| transcript.pyannote[140].speaker |
SPEAKER_02 |
| transcript.pyannote[140].start |
332.62034375 |
| transcript.pyannote[140].end |
342.91409375 |
| transcript.pyannote[141].speaker |
SPEAKER_02 |
| transcript.pyannote[141].start |
343.31909375 |
| transcript.pyannote[141].end |
346.99784375 |
| transcript.pyannote[142].speaker |
SPEAKER_02 |
| transcript.pyannote[142].start |
347.47034375 |
| transcript.pyannote[142].end |
350.99721875 |
| transcript.pyannote[143].speaker |
SPEAKER_02 |
| transcript.pyannote[143].start |
351.33471875 |
| transcript.pyannote[143].end |
352.80284375 |
| transcript.pyannote[144].speaker |
SPEAKER_02 |
| transcript.pyannote[144].start |
353.20784375 |
| transcript.pyannote[144].end |
357.74721875 |
| transcript.pyannote[145].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[145].start |
357.81471875 |
| transcript.pyannote[145].end |
360.19409375 |
| transcript.pyannote[146].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[146].start |
360.36284375 |
| transcript.pyannote[146].end |
361.64534375 |
| transcript.pyannote[147].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[147].start |
362.05034375 |
| transcript.pyannote[147].end |
363.48471875 |
| transcript.pyannote[148].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[148].start |
363.80534375 |
| transcript.pyannote[148].end |
365.69534375 |
| transcript.pyannote[149].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[149].start |
366.10034375 |
| transcript.pyannote[149].end |
368.24346875 |
| transcript.pyannote[150].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[150].start |
368.69909375 |
| transcript.pyannote[150].end |
369.22221875 |
| transcript.pyannote[151].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[151].start |
369.82971875 |
| transcript.pyannote[151].end |
371.55096875 |
| transcript.pyannote[152].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[152].start |
371.95596875 |
| transcript.pyannote[152].end |
374.48721875 |
| transcript.pyannote[153].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[153].start |
375.22971875 |
| transcript.pyannote[153].end |
376.54596875 |
| transcript.pyannote[154].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[154].start |
376.59659375 |
| transcript.pyannote[154].end |
378.03096875 |
| transcript.pyannote[155].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[155].start |
378.63846875 |
| transcript.pyannote[155].end |
380.61284375 |
| transcript.pyannote[156].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[156].start |
380.88284375 |
| transcript.pyannote[156].end |
382.53659375 |
| transcript.pyannote[157].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[157].start |
383.29596875 |
| transcript.pyannote[157].end |
383.90346875 |
| transcript.pyannote[158].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[158].start |
384.29159375 |
| transcript.pyannote[158].end |
385.79346875 |
| transcript.pyannote[159].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[159].start |
387.09284375 |
| transcript.pyannote[159].end |
388.24034375 |
| transcript.pyannote[160].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[160].start |
389.05034375 |
| transcript.pyannote[160].end |
390.48471875 |
| transcript.pyannote[161].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[161].start |
391.73346875 |
| transcript.pyannote[161].end |
393.84284375 |
| transcript.pyannote[162].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[162].start |
394.26471875 |
| transcript.pyannote[162].end |
394.82159375 |
| transcript.pyannote[163].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[163].start |
395.10846875 |
| transcript.pyannote[163].end |
397.25159375 |
| transcript.pyannote[164].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[164].start |
398.01096875 |
| transcript.pyannote[164].end |
398.97284375 |
| transcript.pyannote[165].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[165].start |
399.22596875 |
| transcript.pyannote[165].end |
401.62221875 |
| transcript.pyannote[166].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[166].start |
403.49534375 |
| transcript.pyannote[166].end |
405.19971875 |
| transcript.pyannote[167].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[167].start |
405.55409375 |
| transcript.pyannote[167].end |
408.20346875 |
| transcript.pyannote[168].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[168].start |
408.99659375 |
| transcript.pyannote[168].end |
409.35096875 |
| transcript.pyannote[169].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[169].start |
409.77284375 |
| transcript.pyannote[169].end |
413.14784375 |
| transcript.pyannote[170].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[170].start |
413.43471875 |
| transcript.pyannote[170].end |
414.66659375 |
| transcript.pyannote[171].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[171].start |
415.15596875 |
| transcript.pyannote[171].end |
416.18534375 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
0.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
11.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
請林俊憲委員請做巡檔。好,謝謝主席。本席邀請我們國外委員、國際委員、我們交通部副市長。好,我們請兩位,謝謝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
19.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
31.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
主委好我們今天一起來關心其實主要是臺灣整個環島的交通尤其是花東地區跟西部的一個交通連結政府目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
33.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
60.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
為了要達到這樣的交通改善我們過去是做西部高鐵、東部快鐵我先請教交通部東部快鐵就是所謂的花蓮、台東之間的大概路廊的提升更換軌距,主要是台鐵包括立體化,很多地方要立體化搭配電氣化岸、雙軌工程目標就是希望東部的鐵路時速可以達到160公里 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
62.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
67.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
目前我們正在做相關的這些作業,包括台北到花蓮這一段,其實未來要靠這個台北到宜蘭的這個高鐵。 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
80.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
94.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
然後後面再去做花蓮到台東或者台東到屏東的這部分分別要靠其他的幾個鐵路改善因為你東部的快鐵做好再加上我們的高鐵延伸到宜蘭延伸到屏東 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
96.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
96.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
綜合規劃及環境影響評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
121.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
140.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
延伸到宜蘭要1880億這兩條延伸線 開發這個2500億我們不反對交通改善但是其實我的重點在於不能隨便製造錢坑法案高鐵的財務有沒有自主還要靠政府補貼目前來講並沒有補貼高鐵的財務是自主 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
147.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
159.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
你這個新的南北延長線2500億要不要回收要不要收支平衡高鐵的財務是個負擔我都怕高鐵漲價了那你再蓋一個花東高鐵大概有兩個因素第一個我認為要優先考慮的是財政問題財政高鐵能不能負擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
171.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
199.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
第2個,蓋那個需要很複雜的,第10調查要不要?第2個就是我講的財政嘛,環評嘛,還有甚至通過原民部落嘛。最後啊,10年,我看傅坤啟蒂這個法案10年,10年可以完成嗎?我看這昧於事實嘛,這好可憐啊,10年,你綁一個10年怎麼可能會做得十當做得開?而且他要土地徵收,土地徵收! |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
203.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
211.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
這個是最困難的,縣市政府還要配合的,你做得開嗎?10年要拼了,還有就是錢跟法案的問題。你剛講台鐵正在蓋東部快鐵,對不對?我給你看一下,你知道台鐵靠什麼活下去嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
222.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
248.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
台鐵現在還能賺錢,它最賺錢的前幾個單位就在花蓮、玉里、台東、中探警。它的花蓮賺的錢,大花蓮賺的錢還比直轄市的六都裡面的高雄賺得多。台鐵什麼時候開始幾乎快倒閉,你知道嗎?以時間差距來看,台鐵的財政急速惡化,大概2017年高鐵165號通車, |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
250.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
277.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
台鐵差不多災情就做壞了,很吃爛了因為競爭不了,贏不了高鐵嘛那你現在再蓋下去的話我看台鐵會不會倒閉啊?台鐵會不會倒閉啊?高鐵本身就財政的問題喔高鐵如果真的去蓋像富坤寺提的10年就蓋一個東部高鐵加上現在南北延伸線2500億蓋東部我也不知道要多少錢啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
280.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
293.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
然後 我跟你講 那台鐵怎麼辦 台鐵現在東部快鐵正在投資嘛 對不對你剛才講的要回去嘛 啊去之後台鐵 我剛才說台鐵會倒賣 你要什麼普悠瑪啦 太魯閣 那不能修改 啊 兩位的看法是怎樣台鐵啊 遇到高鐵就溫馨了嘛 要不然你就做一個 啊你現在東部快鐵也在萬一通過啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
308.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
318.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那時候也是因為要改善東部交通啊,國民黨也沒有反對啊,藍綠都同意啊,大家去騎東部快鐵,現在大家要騎,你現在又騎一台高鐵,那怎麼辦?財政可以負擔嗎?啊你現在,什麼都搞不清楚,就要編一個10年,孔主委你要幹嘛? |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
332.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
357.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
包委員所以我們為什麼講所有的交通建設就要循序漸進那我們現在高鐵的部分就是把延伸線這個部分到屏東跟宜蘭這個部分先做好然後同時間呢那個快鐵也在改善嘛如果說大家認為這樣的情況已經可以滿足一日生活圈了當然也有可能有更大的夢想那就可以啟動可行性來評估看看 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
357.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
385.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我認為財政要循序漸進錢坑法案這個一定害死台灣你不要以為高鐵現在經營得不錯高鐵在2008年差點倒閉你會怕嗎?高鐵如果沒有那次的採改財政改善計劃各地也倒了理工控辦公室高鐵也陷入很危險的狀況現在高鐵在投資2500億在宜蘭跟屏東延伸線現在再去什麼10年內再搞一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
387.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
387.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
主席 |