| IVOD_ID |
150712 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150712 |
| 日期 |
2024-04-01 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
聯席會議-11-1-19,23-1 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期經濟、交通兩委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[1] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[1] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
立法院第11屆第1會期經濟、交通兩委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-04-01T10:00:20+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-04-01T10:08:13+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:07:53 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01d093d00f1a07c0278d87fd72f650320ac6c5f5acaf79d9f8ba9b0039caa7a6730f4a040805aad55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:00:20 - 10:08:13 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-04-01T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期經濟、交通兩委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查本院委員傅崐萁等53人擬具「環島高速鐵路建設特別條例草案」案。(詢答及處理)） |
| gazette.lineno |
261 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：（10時）主席、各位委員。有請主委。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：我們再請龔主委。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：鄭委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：主委好。今天特別針對環島高速鐵路建設特別條例草案的審查會，交通部現任部長王國材部長曾經對媒體說環島高鐵不是夢，他真的很想做，但是礙於很多很多的因素，當然就是沒有錢，所以只要是往這個方向努力的，我們要共同設法去往那個方向努力，而不是整個把它否決掉。國發會書面報告也提到「花東地區地形狹長，受中央山脈及海岸山脈阻隔，致交通發展常遇瓶頸。」也特別提到「為使東部地區的交通發展更為迅速，建構可靠安全的交通運輸環境，達到均衡臺灣東西部發展的目的，是行政部門共同努力的方向。」我們就是要往這方向去努力，所以立法院的立法委員基於民意，也希望跟行政機關共同的努力來推動。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][1] |
我們看西部高速鐵路的建設，你的報告裡面說採徵求民間參與興建暨營運方式辦理，然後交通部與台灣高鐵公司簽訂「台灣南北高速鐵路興建營運合約」後，由該公司負責路線土建、車站、機電、軌道及後續營運等工作。你的報告很簡要的寫，事實上它有很多的轉折。1990年行政院核定台灣南北高速鐵路計畫，當初希望規劃6年內完成，但是由於經費來源及採用的系統規格等前置作業的時間過長，使得興建過程工程遲至1999年。1990年核定，1999年才正式啟動，本來是希望政府編列，後來又改為民間投資參與，所以一定要往前走，往前走之後，怎麼樣去做因應，不是這樣就結束，對不對？你看看，台灣高鐵BOT案，對不對？我們就講2000年，我們不講總統是誰了，我們就講2,000年台糖與行政院開發基金投入80億，本來一開始都BOT，但是不得不啊！還是要推動。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：是，還是要往前走。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：再怎麼違法，還是要做，那時候是這樣，其實是違法了，還是要做，要做！台糖與行政院開發基金投入80億；2002年8家公股銀行及中央信託局認購173億元特別股；2005年航發基金，連被人詬病的中技社也投入認購75億特別股。這個就是政府要去協調、去協助，原來希望是這樣，但是顯然出了問題，還是不能停，要往前。作為一個30年的公務員當立法委員之後，我們怎麼樣共同去推動，我們想出方法，所以這個部分是這樣。今天要審查的條例草案第六條，也提出了很多建設經費來源，得依下列方式，怎麼樣把過去的經驗、把過去的這些納入在這裡面，才能夠往前走，不然的話就一直停擺。環島高鐵不是夢，就變成會夢啊！一直夢、一直做夢不行啊！所以我們要繼續的努力，看條文怎麼改都可以，大家可以討論，法律常修嘛！通過了之後還可以修啊！所以這個部分，你的書面報告裡面提到跟你們的組織法、財政紀律法什麼很多，這是一般的公務人員可以這樣寫，寫了我們也可以討論，是不是怎麼去因應。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][1] |
好，回到你的國家發展委員會組織法第二條，國家政策之規劃，還有「規劃」喔！規劃沒有打到紅字，還有規劃，不是只有審議、資源分配；國家發展計劃之規劃，規劃是主動規劃，審議、資源分配；經濟發展政策之規劃、審議及資源分配；產業發展政策，涉及到產業，花東的產業、花東的經濟，都包含；國土、區域及離島發展與永續發展政策之規劃、審議及資源分配；其他國家發展政策之規劃、審議及資源分配。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][2] |
所以沒有說一定不行啦！事實上從你的組織職掌裡面也是可以啊！這個條例寫主管機關為國家發展委員會，你認為層級太低，改為行政院也可以啊！對不對？不要說我不行，因為花東地區發展條例的主管機關是誰？行政院嘛！也可以，大家可以討論，何況中央執行機關就是誰？交通部，OK啊！所以法制上大家可以討論，往前邁進，好不好？主委，可以嗎？因為很多案例啦！有針對石門水庫的特別條例，我們現在針對花東高鐵。還有針對基隆河流域特別條例，還有曾文水庫、南化水庫，都有案例在前面，何況現在是在立法，好不好？謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
主席：好，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][1] |
接下來我們請林國成委員做詢答。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
62 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
聯席會議-11-1-19,23-1 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
傅崐萁 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
邱議瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
呂玉玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
張嘉郡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
張啓楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
鄭正鈐 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
林國成 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
林沛祥 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
蔡其昌 |
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徐富癸 |
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賴瑞隆 |
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林俊憲 |
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何欣純 |
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邱若華 |
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陳超明 |
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賴士葆 |
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陳素月 |
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蔡易餘 |
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陳亭妃 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[21] |
邱志偉 |
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李昆澤 |
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游顥 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[24] |
廖先翔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[25] |
鍾佳濱 |
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黃國昌 |
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林岱樺 |
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魯明哲 |
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黃仁 |
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黃健豪 |
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黃建賓 |
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謝衣鳯 |
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1 |
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| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
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立法院第11屆第1會期經濟、交通兩委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
審查本院委員傅崐萁等53人擬具「環島高速鐵路建設特別條例草案」案（詢答及處理） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
0.143 |
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27.618 |
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委員請做詢答主席、貴委員有請主委我們再請公主委政委好主委好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
29.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
57.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
今天特別針對環島高速鐵路建設特別條例草案的一個審查會我們看交通部現任的部長王國才部長他曾經對媒體說環島高鐵不是夢他真的很想做但是愛很多很多的當然就是沒有錢沒有錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
58.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
83.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
所以這個只要是要往這方向去努力的我們要共同的設法去往那個方向去努力而不是整個把它否決掉好 這個國安會也提到你的書面包括花東地區地形狹長受中央山脈及海岸山脈阻隔至交通發展長逸瓶頸也特別提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
85.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
112.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
為了使東部地區的交通發展更為迅速以建構可靠安全的交通運輸環境達到均衡台灣東西部發展的目的是行政部門共同努力的方向我們就是要往這方向去努力所以立法院的立法委員基於民意也希望跟行政機關共同的努力來推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
114.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
143.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
我們看這個我們就看西部西部高速鐵路的建設你的報告裡面說采徵求民間參與新建及營運方式辦理然後將會以臺灣高鐵公司簽訂臺灣南北高速鐵路新建營運合約由該公司負責路線、土建、車站、機電、軌道及後期營運等工作你的報告很簡要的寫了這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
144.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
172.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
事實上,它有很多的轉折,其實有很多的轉折。1990年行政院合訂台灣南北高速鐵路的計劃。當初的希望規劃6年內完成,但是由於經費來源及採用的系統規格等閒置作業的時間過長,使得興建過程工程遲至1999年。 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
175.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
200.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
1990合定1999年才正式啟動所以原來的本來是希望政府編列後來又改為民間投資參與所以一定要往前走啦往前走之後怎麼樣去做因應不是這樣就結束囉對不對你看看 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
201.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
230.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
台灣高鐵BOT案這個我們就講2000年我們不講總統是誰了我們就講2000年台糖與行政院開發基金投入了80億本來一開始都沒有BOT啊但是不得不啊還是要還是要推動是還是要往前走再怎麼違法還是要做這樣啊那時候其實是違法了還是要做要做 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
232.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
257.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
台糖與行政研發基金投入80億2002年八家公股銀行及中央信託及認購173億元特別股2005年航發基金連中濟社被人過病的中濟社也投入認購75億特別股這個就是政府要去協調去協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
260.39 |
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283.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
原來希望這樣,但是顯然出了問題,但是不能停了,要往前。所以這個部分,作為一個30年的公務員,當立法委員之後,我們怎麼樣共同的去推動,我們要想出方法。所以這個部分是這樣。所以這個環島,今天要審查的條例, |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
285.188 |
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303.316 |
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草案第6條,他也提出了很多建設經費來源的一下列方式,把過去的經驗,把過去的這些怎麼樣去把它納入在這裡面,才能夠往前走,不然的話就一直停擺。 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
307.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
320.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
環島高鐵不是夢就變成會夢了一直夢一直做夢不行了所以我們要繼續的努力這條文怎麼改都可以大家可以討論法律暢修嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
321.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
322.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
國際發展委員會組織法第2條 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
351.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
362.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
國家政策之規劃規劃規劃沒有打到紅字規劃不是只有審議資源分配規劃國家發展計畫之規劃規劃主動規劃規劃是主動規劃審議資源分配經濟發展政策之規劃審議及資源分配 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
380.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
400.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
產業發展政策涉及到產業、發動的產業、發動的經濟都包含國土、區域及力道發展及永續發展政策制規劃、審議及資源分配其他國家發展政策制規劃、審議及資源分配 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
404.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
429.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
沒有說一定不行啦實際上從你的組織執掌裏面也是可以啊這個條例這邊寫主管機關為國家發展委會你認為成績太低改為行政院也可以啊對不對 第二說不行因為發動地區發展條例的主管機關是誰行政院嘛可以 也可以改 大家可以討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
431.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
436.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
發言委員．鄭天財Sra Kacaw發言委員．鄭天財Sra Kacaw發言委員．鄭天財 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
455.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
455.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
好 謝謝 |