| IVOD_ID |
150510 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150510 |
| 日期 |
2024-03-27 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-20-5 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期財政委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
5 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期財政委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-03-27T11:54:41+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-03-27T12:09:08+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:14:27 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9baf490faf5eb4d57f394f416b8b091aedc5a8dea5ca6478f8ba9b0039caa7a61a6072d9306be1cd5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
羅明才 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:54:41 - 12:09:08 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-03-27T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院主計總處朱主計長澤民、中央銀行楊總裁金龍、經濟部率台灣電力股份有限公司就電價大漲及央行升息對物價波動的影響進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【3月25日及27日二天一次會】） |
| gazette.lineno |
970 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
羅委員明才：（11時54分）主席、各位出列席官員大家好。主席可不可以請主計長還有央行總裁、曾次長？ |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：來，朱主計長、楊總裁、曾次長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
羅委員明才：台電有來的請準備。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
朱主計長澤民：羅委員早。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
楊總裁金龍：委員早。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
羅委員明才：各位首長好。請問朱主計長，今天這個題目是寫電價大漲及央行升息對物價波動的影響，請問這裡寫電價大漲，這個標題下的好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
朱主計長澤民：我尊重委員、立法院給我們的題目，我們尊重，我們不能表示意見，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
羅委員明才：好，謝謝。請問曾次長，這個題目寫說電價大漲，這個標題下的怎麼樣？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
曾次長文生：這是召委提的，召委你問我，我怎麼……我們就是尊重召委的決定。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
羅委員明才：是，這個標題下去是對還是不對？是算大漲還是小漲？ |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
曾次長文生：我來回答好不好？跟委員報告，就是說臺灣的電價有一段時間都沒有漲，當然漲了以後，大家覺得對漲價會有討論，2022、2023、2024才開始漲，但是國際上的漲幅，到目前為止，幾乎其他國家漲幅都比臺灣高，所以應該是電價全球大漲，不會是只有臺灣漲，我想說這個跟委員做報告，但是我就是如果用一致的標準來講的話，大概是這樣的狀況，跟委員報告。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
羅委員明才：其實我每次看到你，不是漲，就是來跟立法院要錢，你能不能換一點別的生態？你換一個方式，比如你來告訴我台電不要倒，怎麼樣開源節流，不是在這裡每次都用台電要倒了、台電要倒了，然後用這樣的一個方式來要脅全民，然後說不得不漲。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
曾次長文生：跟委員報告，我想說這個是我們整個電價調整路徑選擇的問題，我們如果要讓它再這一段時間裡面，對整個民生經濟衝擊不要是非常快。像有些國家其實是，尤其在疫情期間還暴漲，其實對民生的影響會更大，我想我們是考慮這整個調節，能夠比較和緩的狀況來做，我也跟委員報告今年的整個情形，調整了以後可能的狀況是如何，也感謝院裡面的支持。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
羅委員明才：所以你們現在是非漲不可是不是？ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
曾次長文生：您是說哪一個年度？ |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
羅委員明才：電價。 |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
曾次長文生：我們根據審議會的決議，我跟委員報告，104年就已經決定了，這個是4月1日來處理1次。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
羅委員明才：這個決議是誰來做決議的？ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
曾次長文生：審議會會審出一個結果。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
羅委員明才：審議會是誰？ |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
曾次長文生：電價審議委員會。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
羅委員明才：我知道，裡面有幾個人？ |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
曾次長文生：15到17個，有學者專家、部會代表，還有工商團體跟消費者團體。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
羅委員明才：現在問題就是這些代表的人，他們所審議出來的東西一定是對的嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
曾次長文生：跟委員報告…… |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
羅委員明才：如果他審議的結果是錯誤的，這些惡果又要全民來承擔。你認識不認識韓國瑜？ |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
曾次長文生：立法院院長，你說的是立法院院長。 |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
羅委員明才：他每次都講一句話，你記不記得他講什麼話？7個字，我給你一點提示──莫忘，每個人都會唸──莫忘世上苦人多。 |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
曾次長文生：報告委員…… |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
羅委員明才：然後你們經濟部每一次都是莫忘電價要一直漲，你們這樣的調整，我跟你打賭啦！你調漲完了以後，以後…… |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
曾次長文生：委員，我想這樣子，我們也跟委員報告，我們這次調整漲幅漲多的反而是企業界，用電度數少的，我們漲得反而是幅度非常微小的。 |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
羅委員明才：你說微小，我就跟你講說電價大漲。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
曾次長文生：我是說300度以下，像類似這樣子的狀態。 |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
羅委員明才：肝跟胃有連帶關係，後面的情況才是會失控。我再快速跟你結束一下，其實台電站在公司的立場，你應該要開源節流，你要想辦法，本席的選區有個地方叫做深美超高壓變電廠，深坑嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
曾次長文生：深美。 |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
羅委員明才：深美，對，你知道那邊有多大的土地？ |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
曾次長文生：跟委員報告，你講的是在深坑裡面，現在目前為止還是露天的那個超高壓變電站嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
羅委員明才：對，那一整片十幾公頃。 |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
曾次長文生：我這樣說，它那個是電業用地，電業用地其實如果要做開發，要解編，它有一些一定的行政程序。 |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
羅委員明才：當然。 |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
曾次長文生：導致我們在臺北…… |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
羅委員明才：而且你還要拿白紙黑字慢慢寫，要完成一個行政流程。 |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
曾次長文生：那個要做土地審議，都要地方政府一起來合作。 |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
羅委員明才：當然、當然，所有的事情都要人做。 |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
曾次長文生：我們都陸續在做。 |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
羅委員明才：你知道那個地方我講很久了，現在深坑輕軌也都定案了，差不多七七八八了，那個做了以後，那邊有捷運站的地方，你還搞一個什麼超高壓變電所，現在科技那麼進步，你可以怎麼樣開源節流的方式，土地開發也可以，民眾不能接受的時候，你們每次都要死要錢，你能不能想一點健康一點的做法？ |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
曾次長文生：委員，不是我們死要錢啦！我想說這件事情，因為全世界電價不是只有臺灣在漲，如果今天只有臺灣在漲，我們或許臺灣還要被檢討。 |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
羅委員明才：好，那我問你，這一次你漲了以後，你能不能保證說以後不要漲？ |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
曾次長文生：委員…… |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
羅委員明才：你又不敢保證，又來立法院要脅說不漲……同樣的場景、同樣的故事一直在做。 |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
曾次長文生：這沒有要脅，我跟委員報告，我們已經把所有的訊息做一個比較全面的公開。 |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
羅委員明才：我再問你一個問題，面對這樣子很困難的情景，你會不會重啟核能電廠？ |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
曾次長文生：跟委員報告，核能電廠能不能重啟的問題不是成本問題。 |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
羅委員明才：那是什麼問題？ |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
曾次長文生：最核心的問題是安全問題。 |
| gazette.blocks[55][0] |
羅委員明才：好，安全問題，如果第五代的核能是安全的，你會不會考慮要重啟？ |
| gazette.blocks[56][0] |
曾次長文生：那個還沒建啊！重啟？您的意思是？ |
| gazette.blocks[57][0] |
羅委員明才：還沒建，可是全世界現在有35個國家又開始要做核能。 |
| gazette.blocks[58][0] |
曾次長文生：我知道，委員，你的意思應該是他們在重啟…… |
| gazette.blocks[59][0] |
羅委員明才：你們會不會去研究、去討論？當然是要安全，不安全，怎麼做？ |
| gazette.blocks[60][0] |
曾次長文生：跟委員報告，我們對於全世界現在能源的走向、各種能源形式，都有在觀察。 |
| gazette.blocks[61][0] |
羅委員明才：所以核能是一個選項。 |
| gazette.blocks[62][0] |
曾次長文生：應該要這樣講，就是核能現在也是大家在討論的方案之一，在國際上都有在討論。 |
| gazette.blocks[63][0] |
羅委員明才：所以已經開始要討論了就對了。 |
| gazette.blocks[64][0] |
曾次長文生：國際上都有在討論。 |
| gazette.blocks[65][0] |
羅委員明才：我覺得你們要面對整個困境，要想出方法，因為臺灣是一個島國，我們沒有想到一個方法，以後你統統會遇到這個電的問題，都是無解。 |
| gazette.blocks[66][0] |
曾次長文生：委員，我跟您報告一下…… |
| gazette.blocks[67][0] |
羅委員明才：請朱主計長。 |
| gazette.blocks[68][0] |
曾次長文生：簡單來講就是…… |
| gazette.blocks[69][0] |
羅委員明才：不要，因為時間沒有了。 |
| gazette.blocks[70][0] |
曾次長文生：OK。 |
| gazette.blocks[71][0] |
羅委員明才：你再用書面就可以了。 |
| gazette.blocks[71][1] |
主計長。 |
| gazette.blocks[72][0] |
朱主計長澤民：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[73][0] |
羅委員明才：剛剛提到的韓國瑜院長，他講的那句話是什麼？ |
| gazette.blocks[74][0] |
朱主計長澤民：是，莫忘世上苦人多。 |
| gazette.blocks[75][0] |
羅委員明才：100分，不容易，你這個回答，我覺得很滿意，我就要提醒你，就是這一次電價如果漲的話，飆漲，很多人都很辛苦。主計長，我請問你，你有沒有考慮過這些年輕人，這些還在念書的年輕人，他本來可能早上吃一個荷包蛋，現在不敢吃了，吃半顆，節衣縮食，沒有人給他錢，主計長，這些年輕人怎麼辦？ |
| gazette.blocks[76][0] |
朱主計長澤民：跟委員報告一下，像賴副總統，他未來當總統的時候，有說0到22歲都有一些政策，希望政府…… |
| gazette.blocks[77][0] |
羅委員明才：所以這次因為電價調漲，這些最辛苦的學生族群，你有沒有給他們補助？ |
| gazette.blocks[78][0] |
朱主計長澤民：目前我們是對一個族群補助，並沒有對某些，像青安貸款，我們還得…… |
| gazette.blocks[79][0] |
羅委員明才：不是，我剛剛講念書的。 |
| gazette.blocks[80][0] |
朱主計長澤民：念書的話，我們…… |
| gazette.blocks[81][0] |
羅委員明才：國中生到念大學、研究所，因為他沒有收入，然後家裡可能這些爸爸媽媽薪水沒有漲，給的零用錢少了又少了。 |
| gazette.blocks[82][0] |
朱主計長澤民：目前的制度裡面，對像是什麼貸款的話，我們有一些措施，然後政府也給他每年…… |
| gazette.blocks[83][0] |
羅委員明才：那是貸款嘛！可是小朋友如果念書，要買早餐、午餐、晚餐還有日用品，主計長，這些人怎麼辦？ |
| gazette.blocks[84][0] |
朱主計長澤民：每一個人的生活習慣不一樣，我不能夠用配給的方式給他們。 |
| gazette.blocks[85][0] |
羅委員明才：是，他要跟誰求助呢？他們其實是最弱勢的一群。 |
| gazette.blocks[86][0] |
朱主計長澤民：如果生活有困難的話，我們有一個低收入戶的補助，而且低收入戶的學生另外也有補助，都有一定的金額。 |
| gazette.blocks[87][0] |
羅委員明才：單親家庭怎麼辦呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[88][0] |
朱主計長澤民：我們的社會福利制度都有一定的…… |
| gazette.blocks[89][0] |
羅委員明才：弱勢族群怎麼辦呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[90][0] |
朱主計長澤民：就是我剛才講的現行的社會制度已有這個…… |
| gazette.blocks[91][0] |
羅委員明才：因為電價一飆漲了以後，所以今天這個題目叫電價大漲，生活周邊全部都漲，萬物齊漲，主計長，真的大家活不下去了，你們有沒有什麼急救的專線？如果缺錢可以貸款或者可以紓困？ |
| gazette.blocks[92][0] |
朱主計長澤民：社會福利制度有所謂萬一生活…… |
| gazette.blocks[93][0] |
羅委員明才：好啦！我最在意的就是年輕人，這些念書的同學其實是很辛苦的，苦哈哈，接下來公車票、什麼東西統統要漲，口袋的錢都沒有增加，希望你們在制定政策的時候，莫忘世上苦人多。 |
| gazette.blocks[94][0] |
朱主計長澤民：我們社會福利制度去解決，社會福利制度就有一些…… |
| gazette.blocks[95][0] |
羅委員明才：還有一點時間，對不起，總裁，你現在升息啊！調升1碼，其實很多…… |
| gazette.blocks[96][0] |
楊總裁金龍：半碼啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[97][0] |
羅委員明才：半碼，0.25嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[98][0] |
楊總裁金龍：是，0.125。 |
| gazette.blocks[99][0] |
羅委員明才：0.125喔！那升息了以後，央行有沒有賺錢？ |
| gazette.blocks[100][0] |
楊總裁金龍：不會吧！我們也不會就是為了賺錢然後來升息，不會啦！不會這樣子啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[101][0] |
羅委員明才：你升息，一些房貸族不是都多繳了錢嗎？一定有人得利啊！最後賺錢的是誰？ |
| gazette.blocks[102][0] |
楊總裁金龍：不會啦！中央銀行不會來計算我們是賺錢或是賠錢，然後我們來做升息，不是這樣子的啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[103][0] |
羅委員明才：比如你升1碼、升2碼的話，央行可以多賺多少錢？ |
| gazette.blocks[104][0] |
楊總裁金龍：不會，0.125都不會去考慮這個，0.25也不會。 |
| gazette.blocks[105][0] |
羅委員明才：你不用考慮啦！結果的話，你們有沒有賺到錢啊？都沒有，假設升5碼的話，你們有沒有賺到錢？ |
| gazette.blocks[106][0] |
楊總裁金龍：不會啦！報告委員…… |
| gazette.blocks[107][0] |
羅委員明才：問題那個錢跑去哪裡啊？因為房貸族都要繳錢啊！錢繳的多啊！這個錢最後要流到哪裡去？ |
| gazette.blocks[108][0] |
楊總裁金龍：委員，你的意思，我也知道啦！就是說我們升息的話，貸款人就會犧牲啦！不過存款人他會增加收入啦！所以也就是說就資產負債表來講的話，兩個都是互相抵銷啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[109][0] |
羅委員明才：央行有沒有賺到？ |
| gazette.blocks[110][0] |
楊總裁金龍：不會啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[111][0] |
羅委員明才：一點都沒賺嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[112][0] |
楊總裁金龍：不會。 |
| gazette.blocks[113][0] |
羅委員明才：真的嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[114][0] |
楊總裁金龍：對，不會。 |
| gazette.blocks[115][0] |
羅委員明才：好，那你去年繳庫大概1,800億啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[116][0] |
楊總裁金龍：是，沒有錯。 |
| gazette.blocks[117][0] |
羅委員明才：其實你們都一直在跟民眾找錢，為什麼你央行不多賺一點？你就撥補過去就好了啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[118][0] |
楊總裁金龍：不會啦！中央銀行不會就是說…… |
| gazette.blocks[119][0] |
羅委員明才：國營事業機構裡面啊！最會賺錢的就是央行。 |
| gazette.blocks[120][0] |
楊總裁金龍：中央銀行的職責就是說要維持金融的穩定、物價的穩定、匯率的穩定，然後在這種前提之下，來協助…… |
| gazette.blocks[121][0] |
羅委員明才：對，那你幹麻繳庫1,800億？ |
| gazette.blocks[122][0] |
楊總裁金龍：這個就是我們的職責。 |
| gazette.blocks[123][0] |
羅委員明才：你就不要繳庫1,800億啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[124][0] |
楊總裁金龍：不，1,800億外匯存底是我們在管理的，中央銀行基於一個善良管理人的立場，我們來manage我們的外匯存底，然後外匯存底我們如果能夠賺錢的話，我們就繳庫，沒有賺錢的時候，我們就不會。 |
| gazette.blocks[125][0] |
羅委員明才：好，總裁，因為時間的關係啊！我還是想說請各單位想個辦法，不要叫人民出錢啊！你看財政部從善如流，我跟它講提案紅標米酒凍漲，莊部長馬上就答應說好，就凍漲，所以我們也希望說經濟部啊！我們委員要求你們凍漲，你們也從善如流，多多站在小老百姓的立場來思考，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[126][0] |
楊總裁金龍：謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[127][0] |
主席：好，羅明才委員質詢結束。 |
| gazette.blocks[127][1] |
我們現在請吳春城委員、吳春城委員、吳春城委員，吳春城委員不在現場。 |
| gazette.blocks[127][2] |
再來請鄭天財委員。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
370 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-1-20-5 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
羅明才 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
吳秉叡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
林德福 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
李彥秀 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
郭國文 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
賴惠員 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
李坤城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
黃珊珊 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
王世堅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
羅智強 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
牛煦庭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
顏寬恒 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
陳玉珍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
徐巧芯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
吳春城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[21] |
葉元之 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
299 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-03-27 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1132001 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1132001_00010 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
邀請行政院主計總處朱主計長澤民、中央銀行楊總裁金龍、經濟部率台灣電力股份有限公司就電
價大漲及央行升息對物價波動的影響進行專題報告，並備質詢 |
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請問朱主計長今天這個題目是寫 |
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電價大漲及央行升息對物價波動的影響請問這裡寫電價大漲那這個標題下的好不好我尊重委員的一個立法院的給我們的題目的我們尊重我們不能表示意見謝謝好謝謝那請問曾次長他這個題目寫說電價大漲 |
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60.319 |
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| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
那你這個標題下的怎麼樣?這趙偉提的啦,趙偉你問我,我怎麼...我們就是尊重趙偉的決定啊那這個標題下去喔,是對還是不對?就是是算大漲還是小漲?那個...我來回答好不好?那個跟委員報告喔齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
84.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
102.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
就是說台灣的電價有一段時間都沒有漲那當然漲了以後大家覺得說對漲價會有討論那這2022、23、24才開始漲但是國際上的漲幅到目前為止幾乎其他國家漲幅都比台灣高所以應該是電價全球大漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
108.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
133.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
不會是只有台灣漲啦我想說這跟委員做報告但是就是用我就是如果一致的標準來講的話大概是這樣的狀況跟委員報告其實我每次看到你不是漲就是來跟立法院要錢你能不能換一點別的生態你換一個方式比如說你來告訴我是說台電不要倒那怎麼樣開源節流 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
134.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
160.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
不是每次在這裡你每次都用台電要倒了台電要倒了然後用這樣的一個方式來要挾全民然後說不得不漲跟委員報告我想說這個是我們整個電價調整路徑選擇的問題我們如果要讓他在過這一段時間裡面對整個民生經濟衝擊不要是非常快那像有些國家其實是尤其在疫情期間還暴漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
162.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
189.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
那其實對民生的影響會更大那我想說我們是考慮這整個調節能夠比較和緩的狀況來做那我也跟委員報告今年的整個情形調整了以後可能的狀況是如何也感謝院裡面的支持您是說哪一個年度您是說我們根據那個審議會的決議我跟委員報告104年就已經決定了這個決議是誰來做決議的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
193.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
221.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
審議會會審出一個結果審議會是誰啊那個電價審議委員會我知道裡面有幾個人啊15到17個有學者專家部會代表還有工商團體跟消費者團體那現在問題就是說這些代表的人他們所審議出來的東西一定是對的嗎跟委員講跟委員報告如果他審議的結果是錯誤的這些惡果又要全民來承擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
223.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
244.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
你認識不認識韓國瑜立法院院長他每次都講一句話你記不記得他講什麼話七個字我給你一點提示莫忘每個人都會念莫忘世上苦人多 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
246.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
267.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
報告委員,然後你們經濟部每一次都是莫忘電價要一直漲那個委員我想這樣子齁我看我們這次調整我跟委員報告那你們這樣的調整齁我們這次調整漲幅漲多的我跟您打賭啦反而是是切件你調漲完了以後用電度數少的我們漲以後少的是幅度非常微小以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
268.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
291.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
你說微小我就跟你講說電價大漲我是說300度以下像類似這樣子的狀況後面的情況才是會失控我再快速跟你結束一下其實台電正在公司的立場你應該要開源節流你要想辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
293.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
305.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
本期的這個選區有個地方叫做深美超高壓變電廠深坑嗎?深美你知道那邊有多大的土地? |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
306.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
330.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
跟委員報告你講的是在深坑裡面那一個現在目前為止還是露天那個超高壓變電站嗎對那一整片十幾公頃我這樣說他那個是電液用地喔電液用地其實如果要做開發要解編他有些一定的行政程序當然有而且你要拿白紙黑字要慢慢寫要完成一個行政流程 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
330.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
336.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那個要做土地審議都要地方政府一起來合法當然所有的事情都要人做我們都陸續在做你知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
339.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
366.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那個地方我講很久了現在深坑清軌也都定案了差不多七七八八了那個做了以後你那邊有捷運站的地方你還搞一個什麼超高壓便電所現在科技那麼進步你可以怎麼樣開源節流的方式土地開發也可以民眾不能接受的時候你們每次都要死要錢你能不能想一點健康一點的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
366.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
383.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那個委員不是我們誰要錢啦我想說這件事情因為全世界電價不是只有台灣在漲如果今天只有台灣在漲那個我們過去台灣應該要被我們打那這一次你漲了以後你能不能保證說以後不要漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
384.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
397.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
委員你又不敢保證那又來立法院又是要挾說部長這沒有要挾我這跟委員報告同樣的故事一直在做那我在問你那我在問你一個問題面對這樣子很困難的情景那你會不會重啟核能電廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
409.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
434.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
這個跟委員報告喔就是核能電廠他能不能重啟的問題不是成本問題最核心的問題是安全問題好安全問題如果第5代的核能是安全的你會不會考慮要重啟那個還沒建啊就是還沒建可是全世界現在有35個國家又開始要做核能啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
436.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
452.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
你們會不會去研究去討論當然是要安全啊 不安全怎麼做我們對於全世界現在能源的走向各種能源形式都有在觀察所以核能是一個選項 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
454.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
478.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
應該要這樣講就是核能現在也是大家在討論的一個方案之一所以已經開始要討論了就對了國際上都有在討論我覺得你們要面對整個困境喔要想出方法因為台灣是一個島國啊我們沒有想到一個方法以後你通通會遇到這個電的問題啊都是無解那請朱主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
487.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
504.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
主計長剛剛提到了韓國瑜院長他講的那句話是什麼是莫忘世上苦人多一百分欸不容易欸你這個回答我覺得很滿意那我就要提醒你就是說這一次電價如果漲的話標漲啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
510.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
535.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
很多人都很辛苦啊主計長我請問你喔你有沒有考慮過這些年輕人這些還在念書的年輕人那他本來可能早上吃一個荷包蛋現在不敢吃啦吃半顆結衣縮食沒有人給他錢啊主計長這些年輕人怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
537.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
542.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
所以這次因為電價調漲那這些最辛苦的學生族群的話你有沒有給他們補助? |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
559.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
575.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
欸那個目前我們是對那個一個族群補助並沒有說對對某些像青藍貸款那一個是我剛講念書的比如說國中生到念大學研究所因為他沒有收入啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
576.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
603.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
然後家裡可能這些爸爸媽媽薪水沒有漲給的零用錢又少了又少了目前的制度裡面對像那個什麼貸款的話我們有一些錯誤是然後政府也給他每年那是貸款嘛可是小朋友如果說念書要買早餐啊要買午餐啊晚餐啊日用品啊主計長這些人怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
606.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
627.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
每一個人的生活習慣不一樣,我不能夠用配給的方式給他們是,那他要跟誰求助呢?他們其實是最弱勢的一群真的生活有困難的話,我們的有一個低收入戶的補助,而且低收入戶的學生另外也有補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
629.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
654.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那單親家庭怎麼辦呢?那個我們的社會福利制度都有一定弱勢族群怎麼辦呢?因為你這個電價一飆漲了以後所以今天這個題目說電價大漲生活周邊全部都漲萬物齊漲主計長真的大家活不下去了你們有沒有什麼急救的專線? |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
655.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
676.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
如果缺錢可以貸款或者可以紓困社會福利制度有那個是有所謂的那個萬一生活不可能好啦剛剛我最在意的就是年輕人這些念書的同學其實是很辛苦的哭哈哈接下來公車票什麼東西通通要漲口袋的錢都沒有增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
678.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
686.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
希望你們在制定政策的時候莫忘世上苦人多一點時間對不起總裁你現在那個升息調升一碼其實很多的半碼半碼0.125那升息了以後那央行有沒有賺錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
708.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
731.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
不會吧,我們也不會就是說為了升息然後為了賺錢然後來升息你升息一些房貸主不是都交了錢嗎?那一定有人得利啊最後賺錢的是誰?不會啊,中央銀行不會就是說我們也不會就是說我們來計算說我們是賺錢或是賠錢然後我們來做升息不是這樣子的那你比如說你升一碼升兩碼的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
732.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
760.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
央行可以多賺多少錢?不會0.125都不會去考慮這個0.25你不用考慮啦那結果的話你們有沒有賺到錢啊?都沒有?那假設升五碼的話你們有沒有賺到錢?不會啦問題那個錢跑去哪裡啊?因為房貸主都要繳錢啊錢繳的多啊這個錢就要流到哪裡去?委員問你的意思我也知道啦就是說我們升息的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
761.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
764.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
那央行有沒有賺到?不會啊。一點都沒賺嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
778.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
793.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
真的嗎?對,不會好,那你去年繳酷大概1800億喔?是,沒有錯其實你們都一直在跟民眾找錢那為什麼你央行不多賺一點你就撥補過去就好了啊?不會啦,中央銀行不會就是說國營事業機構裡面啊,最會賺錢的就是央行中央銀行的職責就是說要維持金融的穩定 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
800.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
808.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
無價的穩定匯率的穩定然後在這種前提之下呢然後來協助對阿那你幹嘛繳扣1800億那你就不要繳扣1800億阿阿1800億是我們我們阿我們阿外匯存底是我們在管理的總裁 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
817.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
844.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
中央銀行基於就是說是一個善良管理人的一個立場我們來manage我們的這個外存體然後呢外存體我們如果說能夠賺錢的話呢我們就腳褲沒有賺錢的時候呢時間的關係啊我還是想說請各單位想個辦法不要叫人民出錢啊你看財政部他從善如流我跟他講說提案紅標民主有動漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
846.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
848.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
羅明才委員質詢結束我們現在請吳春成委員 |