| IVOD_ID |
150365 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150365 |
| 日期 |
2024-03-25 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-23-5 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期交通委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
5 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期交通委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-03-25T11:35:00+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-03-25T11:40:48+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:05:48 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3b2b855ee35a005b0e11834690640f3dcabe2e38d5d7efe9f8ba9b0039caa7a6d40fe60eab7abe335ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:35:00 - 11:40:48 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-03-25T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：審查委員傅崐萁等33人擬具「花東快速公路建設特別條例草案」案。【詢答及處理】【3月25日及27日二天一次會】） |
| gazette.lineno |
678 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：（11時35分）主席、各位委員。有請部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：好，請部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：部長好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
王部長國材：鄭委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：部長你看2020年的資料，臺灣的快速公路總共有17條，全部都在西部。這是三年多前的資料，這三年多來應該還有繼續做，我每一次經過都在繼續做，還在增加，所以就花蓮臺東而言，真的是不知道怎麼形容。我們看今天交通部的報告，你們希望放在花東地區發展條例的花東基金，你們有去跟主計總處或國發會溝通嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
王部長國材：後來有溝通，因為它的經費規模好像只有400億，所以放不進去。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：就不要放這裡啦，我告訴…… |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
王部長國材：這個應該是…… |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：我早上也去問了國發會，國發會主委說不太可能。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
王部長國材：我是覺得這個部分應該還是走它自己的。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，你的報告裡面還特別提到憲法第七十條「立法院對於行政院所提預算案，不得為增加支出之提議，本特別條例之立法，恐產生立法權干預行政權之憲政爭議。」你還特別提到「本條例確有窒礙難行之處，致無法推動」，也是提到行政權、憲政的分際。今天我們不是直接在審查預算的時間去增加預算，現在是在立法，立法院有立法的權力，立法委員有提法律案的權力，這是非常非常的明確。所以這樣子寫，尤其由交通部來寫這個，你們有去跟法務部溝通過嗎？有嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
王部長國材：有，有溝通過。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：有？花東地區發展條例當初沒有行政院提案？法務部要看清楚，當初民進黨團提案、國民黨團提案、王廷升等20人提案「東部區域發展條例」的草案，就是後來王金平院長主持協商4次，名稱改為「花東地區發展條例」，當時沒有行政院版本，怎麼沒有說憲政分際？怎麼沒有說違憲？這個也不能怪你，因為你不是學法律的。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][1] |
如果是這樣，前瞻基礎建設條例我有提案啊，很多立委都有提案啊，行政院固然有版本，但我們都有提案，立法委員都有提案，從來就沒有人講，因為這是法律提案，很多法律的提案都會涉及到經費。所以這個不要輕易的講，尤其是由交通部來講，要講就請法務部勇敢的講，我就不相信他敢講。這裡面很多的特別條例，特別條例也有針對單一的像石門水庫、像南化水庫，很多單一特別條例裡面也都有特別的預算。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
王部長國材：跟委員報告，就我了解的，單一比如基隆河整治或是石門水庫，是當時的狀況很緊急，包括淹水相關的一些課題。可是在全國的個別計畫，每個縣市的計畫都很重要，個案計畫過去都是透過剛才談到的可行性，還有綜合規劃、環評，我想委員也非常清楚。我再提一次，事實上整個花東快速道路我們沒有反對，甚至如果它評估可行，我們會支持也加速，只是現在已經進行到8月就提出可行性報告，事實上臺東也剛辦完公聽會而已，我是覺得就讓這個程序去走是最符合的。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：部長，你要謝謝立法院幫你找財源，我們幫你找財源，你可行性評估、環評通過正好有財源，不是很好嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
王部長國材：不是，如果通過，當然請委員支持我們的財源。 |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：當然我們絕對支持。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
王部長國材：因為現在還沒有審查通過，我覺得順序有一點顛倒。 |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：以交通部的立場真的不要輕易講憲政分際，以上謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
主席（廖委員先翔代）：謝謝鄭天財委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][1] |
接下來請吳宗憲委員。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
472 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-1-23-5 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
陳雪生 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
傅崐萁 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
李昆澤 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
廖先翔 |
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黃健豪 |
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游顥 |
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徐富癸 |
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林國成 |
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魯明哲 |
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蔡其昌 |
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陳素月 |
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何欣純 |
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林俊憲 |
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邱若華 |
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許智傑 |
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鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
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吳宗憲 |
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王鴻薇 |
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高金素梅 |
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羅智強 |
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洪孟楷 |
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黃建賓 |
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吳思瑤 |
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張啓楷 |
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林沛祥 |
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陳冠廷 |
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黃仁 |
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劉建國 |
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陳俊宇 |
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| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
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立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
審查委員傅崐萁等33人擬具「花東快速公路建設特別條例草案」案 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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主席,各位委員,有請部長。好,請部長。部長好。政委好。抱歉。好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
31.721 |
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60.206 |
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部長你看我們這個是2020年的一個資料台灣的快速公路總共有17條全部都在西部全部都在西部這是三年多前的資料這三年多來應該還有繼續我看每一次經過都有在繼續做還有在增加所以這個部分就花蓮台東而言 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
61.294 |
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76.727 |
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真的是不知道怎麼形容啦我們看這個今天交通部的報告這個你們希望放在花東第7發展條例的花東基金你們有去跟主計總書或國發會有溝通嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
79.434 |
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82.556 |
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這裡面你的報告提到憲法第70條立法院對於行政所提議算不得為增加自出這提議 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
109.517 |
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134.762 |
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本特別條例之立法恐產生立法前綱立行政前之憲政爭議你這邊還特別提到本條例竊有自愛拿行無法推動也是提到這個行政前憲政的分際今天我們不是直接在審查預算的時候去增加預算我們現在是在立法 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
136.673 |
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164.509 |
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律法院有律法的權利律法院有提案法律案的權利這個是非常非常的明確所以這個事要這樣的這樣去寫喔尤其是一個交通部來去寫這個齁你們有去跟法務部溝通過嗎 有嗎 有 有溝通過 那花東第7發展條例當初沒有行政院提案喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
166.155 |
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169.097 |
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當時沒有行政院版本呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
196.533 |
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223.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
怎麼沒有說憲政分際怎麼沒有說違憲所以部分這個也不能怪你了因為你不是寫法律的啦如果是這樣前章基礎建設條例我有提案啊很多立委都有提案啊行政院固然有版本我們都有提案啊立法院都有提案啊從來就沒有人講說 |
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224.946 |
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247.462 |
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因為這是法律的提案啊 法律的提案哪一條 很多法律的提案都會涉及到經費啊 都會涉及到經費 所以這個不要輕易的 尤其是由交通部來講 要講的就請法務部來講 他勇敢的講 我就不相信他敢講 所以這個部分啊 這裡面很多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
248.959 |
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263.815 |
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建特別條例特別條例以後針對單一的像石門水庫的像南華水庫的很多的單一的特別條例這裡面也都有特別的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
264.206 |
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280.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
﹏﹏ |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
280.214 |
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297.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
全國的個別計劃每個縣市的計劃都很重要喔那這個部分都是過去都是個案計劃都是透過剛才談到可行性還有綜合規劃環評我想委員也非常清楚我在這邊再提一次就是說整個花東快速大陸事實上我們沒有反對 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
298.88 |
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319.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
甚至如果他評估可行我們會支持加速只是現在我已經進行到8月就提出可行性報告8月事實上台東也剛辦完公聽會而已我是覺得就讓這個程序去走是最符合的部長你要謝謝我們立法院幫你找財源 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
321.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
342.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我們幫你找財源啊你可行性評估然後環評通過正好有財源不是很好嗎不是我們如果通過我們通過當然請委員支持我們的財源這個我們當然因為現在還沒有審查通過我是覺得順序有一點顛倒以交通部的立場真的不要輕易的去講這個憲政的分際以上謝謝 |