| IVOD_ID |
150289 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150289 |
| 日期 |
2024-03-22 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-1-6 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期第6次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
6 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
立法院第11屆第1會期第6次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-03-22T11:33:35+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-03-22T12:04:23+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:30:48 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7c8e4f03b048d09e6a4fe2172b209db0fd9d093a04e30914f8ba9b0039caa7a6d3f33c3fb7abcba85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
廖先翔 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:33:35 - 12:04:23 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-03-22T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第1會期第6次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。
二、3月22日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。
三、3月26日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。） |
| gazette.lineno |
1231 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
廖委員先翔：（11時33分）謝謝院長、謝謝主席。麻煩邀請我們的陳院長，還有我們工程會主委。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請陳院長備詢、工程會備詢。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
陳院長建仁：廖委員午安。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
廖委員先翔：院長好。謝謝院長，其實在我來立法院第一次的委員會，算是質詢啦！在委員會的時候，第一天是工程委員會，我非常肯定我們的吳主委，他對於我的提問都是據實以告，當天的提問就是我們數位身分證的議題，吳主委跟我說明我們經過工程會的協調，是協調之後，內政部要賠給廠商2.8億元，後來也經過一些社會的討論，當天除了賠償給廠商的2.8億元，可能還有一些前面已經投入的資本，我想趁今天這個機會來跟院長確認一下，在我們的數位身分證上面，我不要講賠償，「賠償」這個字眼可能不太好，我們在數位身分證上面投資了多少資源？這些數字不包括我們行政人員的人事成本，就單純給廠商的錢，在經過社會的討論後，我們有沒有統計過到底花多少錢？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
陳院長建仁：這部分實際上除了剛才講的2.8億以外，還有一個四點多億的經費。 |
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廖委員先翔：所以總共加起來大概多少？因為有人說是14億…… |
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陳院長建仁：應該是七億多。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
廖委員先翔：七億多？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
陳院長建仁：但是我要跟你講，那個四億多的東西實際上它還是可以…… |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
廖委員先翔：有些是資本，我們可以把它當作投資。 |
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陳院長建仁：對，是資本門。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
廖委員先翔：沒問題，所以總共是七億多，每年大概還要再花6,300萬的經費做維護，所以就是每拖一天，我們每天平均大概還要花20萬的經費做設備的維護，但是實際上到目前為止還沒有任何的成效。當天我也有請吳主委幫忙做後續的追蹤，這樣的結果勢必是行政上有一些缺失，後續可能會有一些檢討，我想確認一下，工程會可能也不方便直接介入，今天院長在這邊，我直接請教院長有關數位身分證缺失的檢討報告，我們有沒有辦法提出？ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
陳院長建仁：當時數位身分證在規劃的過程中，因為接受各界的反映，所以我們就暫緩，我們對個資的保護要更強化以後才來進行，而且要取得民眾的共識。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
廖委員先翔：這些都尊重，社會有廣泛討論了，行政單位可能會有一些檢討，我們後續是不是會做相關的檢討跟課責？ |
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陳院長建仁：當然，我們會繼續檢討看看我們是不是什麼時候要再開始推動等等，但是這需要取得共識。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
廖委員先翔：相關的檢討大概多久以內可以做成一份報告？ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
陳院長建仁：我們需要取得大家的共識，剛才講到個資保護的部分，大法官釋憲的時候有說個資保護的部分，我們需要設立一個…… |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
廖委員先翔：沒關係，我都尊重你們後續的討論。 |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
陳院長建仁：我還沒有講完，要設立一個個資保護的相關機構，個資保護的委員會目前已有籌備處，我們對個資的保護很完整以後再討論怎麼推動，所以事有先後…… |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
廖委員先翔：對，這些很好。 |
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陳院長建仁：事有緩急，所以我們是這樣來進行。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
廖委員先翔：這都很好，我都尊重。至少在賠償的部分，我們行政院後續會不會做相關的檢討報告？會不會？ |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
陳院長建仁：這個部分我剛才已經講過，最重要的部分是因為我們全民還沒有得到共識…… |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
廖委員先翔：院長，會不會有檢討報告？講會或不會。 |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
陳院長建仁：還沒有達到共識…… |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
廖委員先翔：會或不會？ |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
陳院長建仁：我們最後要看看這個事情到底…… |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
廖委員先翔：你的檢討報告也可以提出來說你們做得很好、沒有錯啊！我們都尊重，我只是想要說能不能提供一份報告。 |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
陳院長建仁：剛才講我們是…… |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
廖委員先翔：後續要怎麼推動可以寫在裡面。 |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
陳院長建仁：但是要看看要不要繼續推動，如果要繼續推動，要怎麼檢討呢？對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
廖委員先翔：階段性的檢討可以嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
陳院長建仁：等到個資保護的機構出來，大家對個資保護有完整的瞭解，我們再來看數位身分證到底要不要推，如果還是要推，有什麼要檢討嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
廖委員先翔：沒關係，今天院長在這邊的回答就是目前數位身分證執行到這個階段，引發社會的一些討論，我們行政院不用做任何的檢討報告。 |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
陳院長建仁：因為大家對個資…… |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
廖委員先翔：我尊重、我尊重，這是院長的回答。 |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
陳院長建仁：大家對個資保護…… |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
廖委員先翔：行政院認為不用做任何的檢討報告，是吧？對不對？不用嘛？你們後續會再繼續推。 |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
陳院長建仁：這個個資保護委員會是一個獨立的機關…… |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
廖委員先翔：我尊重、我尊重，這個話題到這邊，謝謝我們的院長。 |
| gazette.blocks[39][1] |
接下來的問題，我就提一下地方的建設，跟院長報告、分享一下，我們汐止人非常熱愛大眾運輸工具，一些背景資料先跟院長報告。我們汐止有三個火車站，包括汐科火車站，每天的運量大概2萬，在臺鐵裡面排名第15名，汐止火車站也大概2萬，排名第17名，汐止跟汐科兩個加起來在臺鐵的貢獻大概4萬，兩站加起來在全國的排名大概會落在第7名，也就是在板橋站之後、在新竹站之前，也就是說我們汐止人非常願意響應國家政策來搭乘大眾運輸工具。這個圖片是板南線南港展覽館捷運站6號出口每天晚上排隊搭乘的民眾，這裡的民眾除了汐止，還有基隆的民眾都會在這邊接駁，所以我們汐止的民眾長期以來都有一個訴求，希望板南線是不是有機會延伸到汐止，過去在相關的討論中，因為臺鐵第三軌卡住軌道的關係，沒有辦法做延伸，這是一些背景資料先跟院長報告。後來基隆捷運推動了之後，決定把第三軌的路廊讓出來，把它廢掉給基隆捷運來使用，我們汐止人不禁就會想，現在既然臺鐵第三軌可以讓基隆捷運路廊使用，為何不能讓板南線來做延伸，這是我們汐止人的一個疑惑。所以在公布方案之後，舉辦地方說明會也有許多人都提出了相關建議，鐵道局在當天的地方說明會會後也承諾會把這個評估報告，就是板南線延伸汐止樟樹灣納入基隆捷運的規劃當中，代表這個案子是地方可能有更多的期待。我認為因為基隆捷運的案子是在今年1月31號核定，行政院核定，對不對？部長點頭嘛！其實在這麼有爭議的建設當中，我非常不解，其實大家都說在大選過後的內閣叫看守內閣，對不對？看守內閣適合去核定一個爭議度還相當高的地方建設嗎？這個是非常的…… |
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陳院長建仁：我覺得你的…… |
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廖委員先翔：好的，沒關係，您可以說明。 |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
陳院長建仁：問法很奇怪，沒有所謂「看守內閣」這樣的4個字，任何內閣都需要好好的做事，做到這個內閣下臺為止，所以任何時間都要做事，沒有看守內閣不做事的道理。第二個，這個捷運路線，你剛才講到板南線的部分，如果你要跟板南線接，要跟臺北市政府來提出評估可行性，因為捷運是由地方政府來規劃推動嘛！同樣的，基隆捷運也是同樣的情形，是基隆市政府提出來，我們這邊來核定…… |
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廖委員先翔：所以我們…… |
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陳院長建仁：中央、地方的權責要分清楚，你才能夠問政。 |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
廖委員先翔：所以你們持開放態度嗎？你們持開放態度嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
王部長國材：不是，委員…… |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
廖委員先翔：很遺憾的，立法院是2月1號新的任期，在新的民意進來立法院之前，地方民眾有許多意見希望透過新的立法委員來立法院表達意見，結果在我就任的前一天卻核定了地方有非常大分歧的地方建設。 |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
王部長國材：委員，你講地方有疑慮，你要不要問侯市長要不要做？要不要問蔣萬安市長要不要做？ |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
廖委員先翔：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
陳院長建仁：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
王部長國材：謝國樑市長要不要做？ |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
陳院長建仁：是啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
廖委員先翔：沒問題啊！我都會去問啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
王部長國材：三個市要做基隆捷運啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[55][0] |
廖委員先翔：沒有問題啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[56][0] |
王部長國材：對。現在你…… |
| gazette.blocks[57][0] |
廖委員先翔：沒問題，就行政院目前的態度，後續可不可以做一些討論？因為行政院當初做的一些報告很多都與實際的情況不符，可以說是先射箭再畫靶。 |
| gazette.blocks[58][0] |
王部長國材：不是，哪些不符？我不知道是哪些不符？這個是3縣市跟交通部討論出來的。 |
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廖委員先翔：我們原方案裡面提出，你們大概心裡有…… |
| gazette.blocks[60][0] |
陳院長建仁：委員，我剛才講過，捷運是由地方政府來規劃推動，所以在這個過程當中，三個市政府北北基都已經同意的方案，基隆捷運這樣送過來，所以中央來決定，如果你要改變，可以啊！那就跟臺北市政府、新北市政府，還要再去談啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[61][0] |
廖委員先翔：可以啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[62][0] |
陳院長建仁：那你談出來新的看法…… |
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廖委員先翔：所以院長，沒關係，院長現在是…… |
| gazette.blocks[64][0] |
陳院長建仁：基隆市政府去跟新北市跟臺北市去談你們的計畫是什麼，再來看啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[65][0] |
廖委員先翔：所以你們持開放態度，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[66][0] |
王部長國材：不是，我跟委員提一點，比如說你關心的汐止跟汐科，如果藍線到樟樹灣站，汐止跟汐科都要在樟樹灣轉乘，你知道嗎？但是現在搭基隆捷運是直接到南港站，瞭解嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[67][0] |
廖委員先翔：到南港站還不是要搭板南線轉乘？ |
| gazette.blocks[68][0] |
王部長國材：不是，可是你…… |
| gazette.blocks[69][0] |
廖委員先翔：我們的目的地又不是南港站。 |
| gazette.blocks[70][0] |
王部長國材：當然你看到汐科、汐止這麼多，他們全部擠在樟樹灣轉乘，所以這個應該是過去式的，以前就是不延嘛！ |
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陳院長建仁：對啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[72][0] |
王部長國材：最後我們用基隆捷運來cover板南線的延伸段。 |
| gazette.blocks[73][0] |
陳院長建仁：我覺得要整個基隆來考量，不要只為了一個區來考量，這樣委員你是代表整個基隆市長…… |
| gazette.blocks[74][0] |
廖委員先翔：我們當然可以為基隆來考量。 |
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陳院長建仁：代表整個基隆市…… |
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廖委員先翔：我從來沒有說反對延伸到基隆，我們是就部分中間路段爭議的路線還有沒有討論的空間嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[77][0] |
王部長國材：我是覺得是重疊了，真的重疊了。 |
| gazette.blocks[78][0] |
廖委員先翔：有沒有討論空間？ |
| gazette.blocks[79][0] |
王部長國材：我個人是覺得幾乎沒有討論空間。 |
| gazette.blocks[80][0] |
陳院長建仁：當時已經討論過了。 |
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王部長國材：因為現在基隆捷運已經走這個路線到南港站，你現在從南港要再把它延伸，那不是重疊了嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[82][0] |
廖委員先翔：所以說部分的路線，南港展覽館到樟樹灣站這個部分，我們地方的訴求，部長很清楚嘛！就是用板南線來延伸，基隆捷運過樟樹灣到基隆的部分就繼續推動嘛！因為它是跟汐東捷運結合嘛，沒錯吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[83][0] |
王部長國材：不是，這樣你又走回頭路了。 |
| gazette.blocks[84][0] |
陳院長建仁：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[85][0] |
王部長國材：以前臺北市不願意做這一段，後來在…… |
| gazette.blocks[86][0] |
廖委員先翔：以前不願意，我剛才一開始就跟你們說明過了，當初都是用第三軌當理由嘛，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[87][0] |
王部長國材：沒有，委員，我跟你報告，現在綜合規劃已經核定，現在新北市政府當主辦單位也要開始做了，你現在再重來，就變成再回到過去了。 |
| gazette.blocks[88][0] |
廖委員先翔：沒關係，我就是要跟院長跟部長確認，地方政府的態度由地方政府自己去承擔，中央單位對於這樣的核定計畫還有沒有討論空間去做調整？有或沒有？ |
| gazette.blocks[89][0] |
王部長國材：我覺得沒有了，因為我路線跟你重疊了，我現在是走輕軌到南港展覽館，現在你要從南港展覽館到樟樹灣，又變成藍線的延伸，我是覺得這個…… |
| gazette.blocks[90][0] |
廖委員先翔：所以汐止人真的很可憐啦！當初汐東捷運在規劃時，這個路線也拖了很久，部長也非常清楚，臺北市端對於要不要做有許多意見，案子擱置了，導致對於我們汐止人沒有意見的案子，因為臺北市的擱置，整個案子拖到現在才分段施工。 |
| gazette.blocks[91][0] |
王部長國材：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[92][0] |
廖委員先翔：結果今天一條捷運要經過汐止，完全不用尊重汐止人的意見，就為了當初某某人的一句話、講出來的政策要來達成…… |
| gazette.blocks[93][0] |
王部長國材：沒有、沒有，我們公聽會…… |
| gazette.blocks[94][0] |
廖委員先翔：地方的意見完全不採納，地方做的地方說明會、要你們做的報告，裡面錯誤也一堆，拿這錯誤的報告來給地方政府！ |
| gazette.blocks[95][0] |
王部長國材：不是，那你要舉例是哪些錯誤，我現在就回答你，你是指哪些錯誤？ |
| gazette.blocks[96][0] |
廖委員先翔：好，可以，原方案基隆捷運……我先請問基隆捷運當初設置的目的是什麼？是不是要銜接臺北市？ |
| gazette.blocks[97][0] |
王部長國材：現在我們可以搭到南港站。 |
| gazette.blocks[98][0] |
廖委員先翔：所以銜接臺北市是基隆捷運設置一個很大的目的，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[99][0] |
王部長國材：其中之一。 |
| gazette.blocks[100][0] |
廖委員先翔：一個很大的目的。 |
| gazette.blocks[101][0] |
王部長國材：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[102][0] |
廖委員先翔：然後你們在報告裡面寫基隆捷運轉板南線的人次比例只有6.74%，也就是多數基隆捷運搭乘的民眾都是在基隆捷運的範圍通勤，所以這個報告不就跟我們當初的訴求完全相違背了嗎？反駁板南線延伸的理由是因為基隆捷運搭乘的人不會去搭板南線，所以不會有需求做板南線的延伸，是吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[103][0] |
王部長國材：不是，不是這樣。 |
| gazette.blocks[104][0] |
廖委員先翔：不然您說。 |
| gazette.blocks[105][0] |
王部長國材：如果當時的市政府願意把板南線延伸，可是這件事情拖很久，你談到為什麼侯市長要做汐東線，最後沒辦法，他覺得這部分還是請交通部來協助，所以我們現在這一段也包括…… |
| gazette.blocks[106][0] |
廖委員先翔：一直以來都是臺鐵第三軌的原因嘛！一開始就已經先做背景說明了，臺鐵第三軌的原因拿掉之後，板南線延伸汐止的最大障礙就拿掉了嘛。 |
| gazette.blocks[107][0] |
王部長國材：不是這個原因，是當時的臺北市政府不想做民生汐止線，侯市長希望做尾端這一段，您瞭解嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[108][0] |
廖委員先翔：那是汐東啊。 |
| gazette.blocks[109][0] |
王部長國材：對，所以現在就是這樣，因為民生汐止線沒做，如果民生汐止線從頭做到尾的話，這當然是可行，現在是最後新北覺得這一段必須要跟中央的基隆捷運結合起來，才有汐東線跟基隆捷運兩個整合的案子。 |
| gazette.blocks[110][0] |
廖委員先翔：對啊。 |
| gazette.blocks[111][0] |
王部長國材：現在你再回到那邊，我覺得整個又回到過去了，現在已經要設計了，新北市政府要做設計了。 |
| gazette.blocks[112][0] |
廖委員先翔：不是，我們完全沒有動到汐東啊，哪裡動到汐東？ |
| gazette.blocks[113][0] |
王部長國材：現在已經在發包了。 |
| gazette.blocks[114][0] |
廖委員先翔：我們板南線延伸哪裡動到汐東了？ |
| gazette.blocks[115][0] |
王部長國材：不是，它有一段，您瞭解嗎？樟樹灣到汐止…… |
| gazette.blocks[116][0] |
廖委員先翔：報告裡面就寫沒有了啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[117][0] |
王部長國材：共段。 |
| gazette.blocks[118][0] |
廖委員先翔：共段在基隆輕軌啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[119][0] |
王部長國材：不是。 |
| gazette.blocks[120][0] |
廖委員先翔：所以我就說基隆輕軌當初要往基隆方向不動嘛，現在板南線就延伸到樟樹灣站而已啊。 |
| gazette.blocks[121][0] |
王部長國材：你這樣……我跟你講…… |
| gazette.blocks[122][0] |
廖委員先翔：這個圖可以看一下。 |
| gazette.blocks[123][0] |
王部長國材：我跟委員報告，你這樣會讓你汐止的選民……現在基隆捷運是搭到汐止站、汐科站就直接到南港展覽館，如果這樣做他們以後都要搭臺鐵到樟樹灣站再轉…… |
| gazette.blocks[124][0] |
陳院長建仁：不通啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[125][0] |
王部長國材：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[126][0] |
陳院長建仁：捷運有捷運的體系，然後臺北市…… |
| gazette.blocks[127][0] |
廖委員先翔：剛剛部長講是在樟樹灣站轉或南港展覽館站轉嘛，總是要轉一次，對不對？問題是樟樹灣站跟汐科站那麼大，以我們汐止人的通勤需求，我們很好去做公車調度轉接到樟樹灣站，樟樹灣站在汐止的核心地帶，很好用大眾運輸工具做接駁。 |
| gazette.blocks[128][0] |
王部長國材：當時到南港站是因為有高鐵，這個也跟委員報告。 |
| gazette.blocks[129][0] |
廖委員先翔：什麼東西到南港站？ |
| gazette.blocks[130][0] |
王部長國材：南港站有高鐵，樟樹灣不會有高鐵。 |
| gazette.blocks[131][0] |
陳院長建仁：大家方便啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[132][0] |
王部長國材：所以轉到南港站就是可以搭高鐵。 |
| gazette.blocks[133][0] |
陳院長建仁：汐止的人也方便…… |
| gazette.blocks[134][0] |
廖委員先翔：問題是你們的報告就寫說，基隆捷運到板南線的轉乘率只有6.74%、每天8,580人，這是你們寫的啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[135][0] |
王部長國材：不是，轉乘，比如說…… |
| gazette.blocks[136][0] |
廖委員先翔：所以我必須要回過來說，一份檢討報告如果能夠讓人家信服，我們都會尊重，但是當地方的民眾提出建議之後、鐵道局也答應要做了，結果後續的報告卻與我們地方民眾所瞭解的事實有很大的差異，你要拿這一份報告來塞我們汐止民眾的嘴，大家吞不下去啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[137][0] |
陳院長建仁：沒有人要塞民眾的嘴。 |
| gazette.blocks[138][0] |
王部長國材：公聽會都開過，大家就是這樣做。 |
| gazette.blocks[139][0] |
廖委員先翔：公聽會開過！你檢討報告做出來有跟大家討論過嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[140][0] |
王部長國材：不是，委員…… |
| gazette.blocks[141][0] |
廖委員先翔：網路上有那麼多的質疑，你們有回應過嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[142][0] |
王部長國材：不是，你現在回到過去，這一段根本沒有人要做，我們最後把這一段…… |
| gazette.blocks[143][0] |
廖委員先翔：哪一段沒有人要做？ |
| gazette.blocks[144][0] |
王部長國材：以前民生汐止線尾端，當時就是雙北在吵這一段，它最後不做我就先做尾端…… |
| gazette.blocks[145][0] |
廖委員先翔：做尾端沒錯呀！ |
| gazette.blocks[146][0] |
王部長國材：過去被稱為盲腸線啊。 |
| gazette.blocks[147][0] |
廖委員先翔：不好意思，字比較小一點，樟樹灣……我們的藍色，看左邊箭頭最下面的藍色是板南線，它只到樟樹灣；而汐東捷運跟基隆捷運就是從樟樹灣到汐科共構，也就是板南線的延伸完全不會影響到共構的部分，這應該是非常清楚的，不用拿共構這件事情出來講，板南線在報告裡面也完全沒有扯到會不會影響到共構的部分、會不會影響到基隆捷運延伸到基隆的部分，完全沒有提到嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[148][0] |
王部長國材：委員，現在已經進行到要施工了…… |
| gazette.blocks[149][0] |
廖委員先翔：汐東捷運要施工了，誰反對？沒有人反對啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[150][0] |
王部長國材：汐東捷運這一段是基隆捷運的一段，我再講一次，樟樹灣到汐止區公所是那一段，現在要發包了，現在你再回頭講這個N年前…… |
| gazette.blocks[151][0] |
廖委員先翔：所以我要講的是南港展覽館到樟樹灣站，這段跟汐東捷運完全沒有任何關係啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[152][0] |
王部長國材：我問你，如果你現在回來，那基隆捷運從樟樹灣到南港展覽館要不要做？如果不做…… |
| gazette.blocks[153][0] |
廖委員先翔：對！我建議再討論。 |
| gazette.blocks[154][0] |
王部長國材：那你要翻案啊，那你要跟雙北來談。 |
| gazette.blocks[155][0] |
廖委員先翔：可以啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[156][0] |
王部長國材：如果你要這樣的話，就是…… |
| gazette.blocks[157][0] |
廖委員先翔：當然可以啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[158][0] |
王部長國材：如果這樣的話，要從可行性開始做延伸。 |
| gazette.blocks[159][0] |
陳院長建仁：對，做可行性評估。 |
| gazette.blocks[160][0] |
王部長國材：這個意思是臺北市政府重新開始做延伸，這個要走很多年。 |
| gazette.blocks[161][0] |
廖委員先翔：是呀！ |
| gazette.blocks[162][0] |
王部長國材：效果差不多。 |
| gazette.blocks[163][0] |
陳院長建仁：所以委員，你如果堅持你這個想法，為了汐止區的想法…… |
| gazette.blocks[164][0] |
廖委員先翔：我是汐止的民意代表，我當然為汐止區人民講話。 |
| gazette.blocks[165][0] |
陳院長建仁：沒錯，如果你這樣的方式，那就從頭…… |
| gazette.blocks[166][0] |
王部長國材：要從頭來喔。 |
| gazette.blocks[167][0] |
陳院長建仁：從頭開始、從可行性開始嘛，我就講過，你要跟地方政府在推動這個捷運建設要好好去想。 |
| gazette.blocks[168][0] |
廖委員先翔：可以啊，誰反對誰就自己來面對汐止的民眾啊！對不對？我的訴求很簡單。 |
| gazette.blocks[169][0] |
陳院長建仁：委員，他們已經決定蓋囉，而且可以蓋下去囉，那你叫他不要蓋…… |
| gazette.blocks[170][0] |
廖委員先翔：哪裡已經蓋了，你才剛核定是蓋什麼啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[171][0] |
王部長國材：現在設計，準備要施工了。 |
| gazette.blocks[172][0] |
廖委員先翔：那是汐東捷運，你一直把汐東捷運跟板南線延伸這兩個混在一起！ |
| gazette.blocks[173][0] |
王部長國材：對，您知道基隆捷運綜合規劃核定、環評過了，你知道嗎？你知道接下來是什麼嗎？就是設計施工。 |
| gazette.blocks[174][0] |
廖委員先翔：是啊，所以還沒施工嘛。 |
| gazette.blocks[175][0] |
王部長國材：是啊，所以未來就是要進行啊。 |
| gazette.blocks[176][0] |
廖委員先翔：你一個數位身分證都可以隨便說喊卡，就喊卡！這個百年的建設不用考慮到地方的訴求？ |
| gazette.blocks[177][0] |
王部長國材：是啊。 |
| gazette.blocks[178][0] |
廖委員先翔：我的訴求很簡單，整條基隆捷運我不想去影響到基隆市民的權益，沒有爭議的路段我們沒有要擋它，從樟樹灣到基隆這一段已經核定了，我們就全力地來施作，因為它也可以跟現有的汐東線來做整合，就是剛剛兩位一直在提的共構、共軌段這邊完全沒有任何的爭議，我當然也希望全力地來推動。那現在要提的就是南港站到樟樹灣的部分，重啟板南線延伸的評估。 |
| gazette.blocks[179][0] |
王部長國材：委員，這個你上次已經有決議了，我們也請臺北市去做評估，但是做了以後這一段的基隆捷運就不做了，你要重新啟動是現在開始喔！現在開始是什麼意思？可行性、綜合規劃、環評…… |
| gazette.blocks[180][0] |
廖委員先翔：我知道，建設是百年大計，我們不能因為求快，設計了一個方案，然後被我們的後代罵死，一個方案這樣子做下去了，我們現在的民意代表沒有辦法面對以後汐止的後代啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[181][0] |
陳院長建仁：你現在如果要這樣做，那就啟動啊？ |
| gazette.blocks[182][0] |
王部長國材：重來啊！這樣重來啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[183][0] |
陳院長建仁：重來啊！你就啟動啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[184][0] |
王部長國材：所有臺北……就是重來嘛？ |
| gazette.blocks[185][0] |
廖委員先翔：沒關係…… |
| gazette.blocks[186][0] |
陳院長建仁：啟動以後，你影響的…… |
| gazette.blocks[187][0] |
廖委員先翔：我不是說要或不要，我只是要我們的行政院是不是能夠保持一個開放的態度去針對爭議的路段重新做一個詳細的報告。 |
| gazette.blocks[188][0] |
陳院長建仁：你現在如果要啟動樟樹灣到南港的板南線延伸，這個事情就是影響到基隆捷運，影響基隆捷運的時候，你就要讓地方政府來做評估…… |
| gazette.blocks[189][0] |
廖委員先翔：我說這沒問題、我說這沒問題，我們會去溝通…… |
| gazette.blocks[190][0] |
陳院長建仁：說沒問題是你講的嘛，不是市政府講的啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[191][0] |
廖委員先翔：那好啦！我去跟地方政府講的時候，地方政府說你要先去跟行政院講啊！每個人都推給別人，對不對？每一個行政單位要有自己的態度嘛，對不對？我現在是立法委員，我當然是問中央的態度啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[192][0] |
王部長國材：地方政府會這樣講就是它也不反對…… |
| gazette.blocks[193][0] |
陳院長建仁：地方政府會這樣講就是甩鍋給中央政府的意思啦！你再聽清楚地方政府的意見啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[194][0] |
廖委員先翔：我當初在當議員的時候，在總質詢的時候問，那時候劉和然代理市長他也是跟我說持開放態度啊！我只要確認各單位都是持開放的態度，我們就有進一步的討論嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[195][0] |
陳院長建仁：交通部把案子給市政府，市政府到現在都沒有表達意見，所以你要去問市政府的意見，這才是做事情的方式啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[196][0] |
廖委員先翔：如果市政府明確把民眾的意見傳達給行政院…… |
| gazette.blocks[197][0] |
陳院長建仁：市政府表達意見以後再說嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[198][0] |
王部長國材：再討論。 |
| gazette.blocks[199][0] |
陳院長建仁：對啊！市政府表達意見以後再說嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[200][0] |
廖委員先翔：有討論的空間嘛？ |
| gazette.blocks[201][0] |
王部長國材：這個案子要核定很不容易，已經核定，要給經費了喔！ |
| gazette.blocks[202][0] |
廖委員先翔：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[203][0] |
王部長國材：現在你要重來開始，這個是重新了啦！就是再回到…… |
| gazette.blocks[204][0] |
廖委員先翔：部分爭議的路段重來，相關的政治責任，我敢提，我當然敢擔啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[205][0] |
王部長國材：不是你的政治責任，你要問地方政府同不同意，如果三個市政府都同意…… |
| gazette.blocks[206][0] |
廖委員先翔：第一，我只問汐止的居民同不同意…… |
| gazette.blocks[207][0] |
王部長國材：那不行，那你要問基隆啊！基隆同不同意…… |
| gazette.blocks[208][0] |
廖委員先翔：汐止居民同意，當然基隆這邊、新北市政府這邊我們來做溝通嘛，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[209][0] |
王部長國材：基隆是這樣啊！他從八堵就是一車到南港站，現在你就是到…… |
| gazette.blocks[210][0] |
廖委員先翔：你這個路線到時候變成一個Y字型的路廊，你自己學交通的，你知道Y字型的路廊在運輸效率上面多差！ |
| gazette.blocks[211][0] |
陳院長建仁：你如果這樣說，你就跟基隆市政府說清楚、跟新北市政府說清楚嘛？ |
| gazette.blocks[212][0] |
廖委員先翔：我會啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[213][0] |
陳院長建仁：兩個市政府如果同意，你就…… |
| gazette.blocks[214][0] |
王部長國材：要說服他們。 |
| gazette.blocks[215][0] |
陳院長建仁：但是現在交通部就把案子給他們了，你就去問一下他們的意見啊！他們如果說這要中央來決定……就甩鍋嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[216][0] |
廖委員先翔：沒關係啦！好啦！我就不鬼打牆了啦！還有下面一個議題啦！不鬼打牆了！我們持開放態度嘛？沒關係，地方政府要來溝通，我來溝通嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[217][0] |
王部長國材：他們如果要做可行性就重新來喔！我是覺得看他要…… |
| gazette.blocks[218][0] |
廖委員先翔：好，不能因為這個東西來去卡樟樹灣到基隆的部分嘛，對不對？樟樹灣到基隆的部分沒有爭議的部分就繼續吧！ |
| gazette.blocks[219][0] |
王部長國材：基隆捷運也改了，樟樹灣這樣要變成轉運站，我要重新再……都動到了。 |
| gazette.blocks[220][0] |
陳院長建仁：都動到了。 |
| gazette.blocks[221][0] |
廖委員先翔：你們的評估報告裡面就是用不會動到的方案去評估嘛！部長你自己的評估報告都沒有看過，然後現在來跟我講這些！ |
| gazette.blocks[222][0] |
陳院長建仁：所有的建設案如果可以這樣子玩的話，玩不完啦！所以要的話，你就從頭開始可行性評估啊！然後重新環評啊！重新綜合規劃然後再來做…… |
| gazette.blocks[223][0] |
廖委員先翔：當然啊！這是程序啊！我有說不對嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[224][0] |
王部長國材：現在都核定也給經費了、也要做了，你這樣是回頭路、真的是回頭路了。 |
| gazette.blocks[225][0] |
廖委員先翔：好，沒關係，下一個議題，院長，我想跟你確認一下，我們旁邊的王國材部長有沒有被調包過？確認是本人嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[226][0] |
王部長國材：是我沒錯。 |
| gazette.blocks[227][0] |
廖委員先翔：去年的王國材是今年的王國材嘛？有一部漫畫叫獵人，裡面有一個角色叫兇狸狐，他變成人的形狀，然後模仿人的樣子，連講話的樣子都一樣，有一段話部長去年講了，我請部長確認一下這是不是您本人講的。 |
| gazette.blocks[227][1] |
（播放影片） |
| gazette.blocks[228][0] |
王部長國材：是啊！現在也是這樣。 |
| gazette.blocks[229][0] |
廖委員先翔：是部長講的嘛，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[230][0] |
王部長國材：現在也是這樣。 |
| gazette.blocks[231][0] |
廖委員先翔：好，可不可以部長再重複一遍？可以再重複講一遍嗎？還是我播一次你再講一遍？ |
| gazette.blocks[232][0] |
王部長國材：交通部現在以行人路權優先，包括我們4年400億的計畫、包括各個條例的修正，現在都朝這方面在進行。 |
| gazette.blocks[233][0] |
廖委員先翔：反正就是在任部長一天，以行人路權的改革跟交通安全當作最重要的一件事情。 |
| gazette.blocks[234][0] |
王部長國材：這是最重要的一個施政政策。 |
| gazette.blocks[235][0] |
廖委員先翔：最重要的事情？ |
| gazette.blocks[236][0] |
王部長國材：沒錯，是。 |
| gazette.blocks[237][0] |
廖委員先翔：你說你會跟路權團體並肩作戰，希望他們當你最強的後盾。當然現在路權團體，你也知道我現在要講什麼嘛！就是微罪不舉發、不記點這件事情，您認為符合您說行人路權的改革跟交通安全是您當作最重要的一件事情這句話嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[238][0] |
王部長國材：我跟委員報告，現在我的確在道安跟民怨中間要取個平衡點，事實上你們汐止也知道啊！路邊停車多困難…… |
| gazette.blocks[239][0] |
廖委員先翔：安全怎麼跟民怨取得一個平衡點？ |
| gazette.blocks[240][0] |
王部長國材：所以他不得不違規停車，這件事情是很多聲音都給我了，所以我們現在權宜的調整，但是我們相關的行人設施，包括穿越道、包括人行道都繼續在建設，因此我說這個是目前的一個權宜修法，不代表我們對行人的建設…… |
| gazette.blocks[241][0] |
廖委員先翔：微罪不記點，就是行政院送來立法院的版本，包括人行道對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[242][0] |
王部長國材：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[243][0] |
廖委員先翔：誰會逼不得已去停人行道？ |
| gazette.blocks[244][0] |
王部長國材：誰怎麼樣？ |
| gazette.blocks[245][0] |
廖委員先翔：誰會逼不得已去停人行道？ |
| gazette.blocks[246][0] |
王部長國材：不是，你…… |
| gazette.blocks[247][0] |
陳院長建仁：道路沒有改善以前就有可能啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[248][0] |
王部長國材：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[249][0] |
廖委員先翔：所以…… |
| gazette.blocks[250][0] |
陳院長建仁：所以我們送來的法案…… |
| gazette.blocks[251][0] |
廖委員先翔：所以停人行道這件事情在院長的眼裡看起來是稀鬆平常的事情，是不是？ |
| gazette.blocks[252][0] |
陳院長建仁：所以我們會送…… |
| gazette.blocks[253][0] |
廖委員先翔：其實說真的啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[254][0] |
陳院長建仁：兩個法案過來…… |
| gazette.blocks[255][0] |
廖委員先翔：大家都有壓力、大家都有壓力，駕駛團體有很多的訴求…… |
| gazette.blocks[256][0] |
陳院長建仁：一個是道路設施的條例，一個就是相關的記點條例，任何人在執政的時候都一定要考慮到全部所有用路人的權益，行人安全很重要，駕駛人也很重要。 |
| gazette.blocks[257][0] |
廖委員先翔：所以讓汽車去停人行道沒有關係？ |
| gazette.blocks[258][0] |
陳院長建仁：但是這一個是…… |
| gazette.blocks[259][0] |
廖委員先翔：不得已、我沒有地方停，我可以去停人行道？ |
| gazette.blocks[260][0] |
陳院長建仁：不，那個還是照罰喔！ |
| gazette.blocks[261][0] |
王部長國材：照罰。 |
| gazette.blocks[262][0] |
陳院長建仁：罰款照罰，只是不記點，你要搞清楚，就是照罰不記點。 |
| gazette.blocks[263][0] |
廖委員先翔：包括不能檢舉嘛，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[264][0] |
王部長國材：不是，我跟各位報告…… |
| gazette.blocks[265][0] |
廖委員先翔：不能舉發、不記點嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[266][0] |
陳院長建仁：而且民調結果有72%的人贊成這樣的講法喔！ |
| gazette.blocks[267][0] |
王部長國材：對，因為你…… |
| gazette.blocks[268][0] |
陳院長建仁：贊成我們現在的作法。 |
| gazette.blocks[269][0] |
王部長國材：事實上違規停車，你打電話，地方的拖吊車就拖走了，你知道嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[270][0] |
廖委員先翔：嗯。 |
| gazette.blocks[271][0] |
王部長國材：現在只是說民眾檢舉氾濫，我們是希望在微罪裡面讓民眾檢舉降低一點，可是並不是不罰喔！ |
| gazette.blocks[272][0] |
陳院長建仁：對啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[273][0] |
王部長國材：你看到車停人行道，你打給警察局就拖走了。 |
| gazette.blocks[274][0] |
廖委員先翔：執法強度降低就是變相鼓勵嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[275][0] |
王部長國材：沒有強度降低啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[276][0] |
廖委員先翔：沒有降低？ |
| gazette.blocks[277][0] |
王部長國材：沒有降低，你…… |
| gazette.blocks[278][0] |
廖委員先翔：還包括我們勸導…… |
| gazette.blocks[279][0] |
王部長國材：照罰、照罰，你打電話給警察局照罰。 |
| gazette.blocks[280][0] |
廖委員先翔：去年交通部給警政署可以勸導的原則，還包括我們現在停在人行道，民眾檢舉都沒辦法檢舉了。 |
| gazette.blocks[281][0] |
王部長國材：不是，不能檢舉不代表不罰，你可以打給警察局或是看專線是多少，1999還是其他，來就馬上拖掉了，可以…… |
| gazette.blocks[282][0] |
陳院長建仁：還是要處罰啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[283][0] |
王部長國材：警察都在啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[284][0] |
廖委員先翔：沒關係，剩下一點時間，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[285][0] |
陳院長建仁：委員…… |
| gazette.blocks[286][0] |
廖委員先翔：剩下一點時間，有些東西是行政權的問題啦！我要再拜託部長，可不可以跟我一起摸著良心把您上次說過的話再說一次？ |
| gazette.blocks[287][0] |
王部長國材：我不用說啊！我剛才已經說過了，就是…… |
| gazette.blocks[288][0] |
廖委員先翔：可不可以在這邊再宣示一次？ |
| gazette.blocks[289][0] |
王部長國材：行人路權…… |
| gazette.blocks[290][0] |
廖委員先翔：院長願不願意再把當天跟大眾承諾的話再宣示一次？ |
| gazette.blocks[291][0] |
王部長國材：我不用講，我現在就實際在做了，包括我們的經費、條例出來了。 |
| gazette.blocks[292][0] |
廖委員先翔：沒關係，宣示更容易，院長願不願意宣示上次在路權團體舉辦活動時所講的話？ |
| gazette.blocks[293][0] |
陳院長建仁：我們提出來的辦法…… |
| gazette.blocks[294][0] |
廖委員先翔：願不願意宣示？ |
| gazette.blocks[295][0] |
陳院長建仁：就是照著這樣做。 |
| gazette.blocks[296][0] |
廖委員先翔：很遺憾，院長去年講的話今年不願意再講一遍，真的非常遺憾。 |
| gazette.blocks[297][0] |
王部長國材：不是，去年講的話現在在做了。 |
| gazette.blocks[298][0] |
陳院長建仁：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[299][0] |
主席：謝謝廖委員先翔的質詢，也謝謝陳院長的備詢。 |
| gazette.blocks[299][1] |
報告院會，上午的質詢到此為止，下午2時30分繼續進行交通組之質詢。現在休息，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[299][2] |
休息（12時4分） |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
36 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
院會-11-1-6 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
韓國瑜 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
1 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-03-22 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1131401 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1131401_00002 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期第6次會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
報告事項 |
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1131401_00001 |
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謝謝院長謝謝主席麻煩邀請我們的陳院長還有我們工程會主委再請陳院長備詢工程會備詢工程會廖偉文 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
32.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
47.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
院長好,謝謝院長,那其實在我萊利法院第一次委員會的算是質詢啊,那在委員會的時候第一個當然第一天是工程委員會,那我非常的肯定我們的吳主委,他對於我的 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
48.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
67.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
一問,都是據時以告。當天的提問就是我們數位身分證的一個議題。吳主委跟我說明說我們經過工程會的協調,當天就是協調之後,內政部要賠給廠商2.8億元。後來經過一些社會的討論,除了當天賠償給廠商的2.8億元,可能還有一些前面已經投入的資本, |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
74.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
99.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
那我想趁今天這個機會來跟院長確認一下在我們的數位身份證上面我不要講賠償啦,賠償這個字眼可能不太好我們在數位身份證上面投資了多少的一個資源在上面呢?這些數字不包括我們的行政人員的資本的人事成本就單純給廠商的錢有沒有經過社會的討論我們有沒有統計過到底花了多少錢? |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
100.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
110.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
這個部分實際上剛才講的有2.8億以外還有一個4點多億的經費。所以總共加起來大概多少?因為有人說是7億。7億多。 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
113.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
137.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
7億多但是我要跟你講那個4億多的東西實際上它是還是可以我們可以把它當作投資所以總共是7億多那每年大概還要再花6300萬的經費來做維護嘛所以就是拖了一天那我們就大概每天平均大概花20萬的經費來做設備的維護但是實際上它到目前為止還沒有任何的一個成效嘛那當天我也有請我們的吳主委幫忙 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
138.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
159.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
做後續的追蹤那有這樣子的一個結果那行政上面勢必有一些缺失那後續可能會有一些檢討我想確認一下可能這個工程會也不方便我直接介入啦那今天院長在這邊我直接請教院長有關數位身分證缺失的檢討報告我們有沒有辦法來把它提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
159.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
182.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
我想這個數位身份證當時在規劃的過程當中因為接受各界的反應所以我們就暫緩然後我們現在也就是說各自的保護要能夠更強化以後才來進行而且呢這些都尊重這些都尊重那有關社會有廣泛討論的嘛那我們可能行政單位會有一些檢討嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
183.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
205.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
那我們是不是後續有會來做相關的檢討跟課程?當然啦,我們會繼續來檢討看看是不是我們什麼時候要開始再來推動等等。那相關的檢討大概多久以內可以做一份報告?需要取得大家的共識。那現在剛才講到個資保護的部分嘛,那大法官實現的時候也說在個資保護的部分我們需要有設立一個,我還沒有講完。 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
209.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
209.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
會不會做相關的檢討報告? |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
237.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
265.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
這個部分等到我剛才已經講過這個最重要的這個部分是因為我們還沒有達到共識嗎?講會或不會還沒有達到共識會或不會那我們最後要看看這個事情到底要你的檢討報告也可以出來說我覺得我們做得很好我們沒有錯啊我們都尊重就是我只是想要說我們能不能提供一份報告那我們要去要怎麼推動要繼續推動如果要繼續推動要什麼檢討呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
266.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
288.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
對不對?等到了各支保護的機構出來大家對各支保護有有那個完整的瞭解然後我們再來看看到底數位身份證要不要所以如果還是要跟有什麼要檢討嗎?針對目前數位身份證執行到這個階段那引發了社會的一些討論所以我們行政院不用做任何的檢討報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
290.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
306.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
我尊重。我尊重。這是院長的回答。我尊重。請政院認為不用做任何的檢討報告。是吧。對不對。不用嘛。你們會後續再繼續推嘛。我尊重。我尊重。好。謝謝我們的院長。謝謝院長。那接下來的問題我就來提一下地方的建設。那到下一頁。 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
314.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
341.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那跟院長報告一下分享一下我們汐止人是非常熱愛大眾運輸工具的那一些背景資料先跟院長報告我們汐止的有幾個火車站3個啦那包括汐克火車站每天的預量大概2萬那排名第15名在台鐵裡面排名第15名汐止火車站也大概2萬排名第17名兩個加起來就是我們汐止的在台鐵裡面就汐止跟汐科加起來的貢獻大概4萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
342.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
370.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那如果加起來的話大概在全國的排名大概會落到第7名也就是在板橋站之後那在新竹站之前也就是說我們汐止人非常的願意響應國家的政策來搭乘大眾運輸工具那包括這個圖片是這個南港展覽館捷運站板南線南港展覽館捷運站6號出口的一個每天晚上那邊排隊搭乘的民眾那這裡的民眾除了汐止還有基隆的民眾那都會在這邊接駁 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
370.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
397.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
所以說過去我們汐止的民眾長期以來都有一個訴求是希望說板南線是不是有機會延伸到汐止來那過去在相關的討論中因為台鐵第三軌卡住軌道的關係沒有辦法做延伸這是一些背景資料先跟院長報告那後來基隆捷運推動了之後決定把第三軌的路廊讓出來把它廢掉給基隆捷運來使用那我們汐止人就會不禁想 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
398.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
420.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
現在既然台鐵第三軌可以讓基隆捷運的路廊來使用了那為何不能讓板南線來做一個延伸這是我們汐止人的一個疑惑那所以說在我們公布方案之後舉辦地方的說明會也許多人都提出了相關的建議台鐵局這個鐵道局啦鐵道局在當天的地方說明會後 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
422.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
433.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
也這個承諾說我們會把這個評估報告就是板南縣延伸汐止的張書安納入到這個板南縣納入到基隆捷運的報告規劃當中那 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
435.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
436.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
﹚廖先翔﹚廖先翔 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
472.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
484.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
問話很奇怪沒有所謂看守內閣這樣的四個字任何的內閣都需要好好的做事做到這個內閣下台為止所以任何時間都要做事沒有看守內閣不做事的這個道理第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
485.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
487.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
所以我們這邊持開放態度嗎?我們這邊持開放態度嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
513.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
541.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
不是,那個委員我跟您說,我們立法院是2月1日任期,這個新的任期到嘛。我們在新的民意進來立法院之前,我們地方的民眾有許多的意見希望透過新的立法委員來立法院表達意見。結果在我就任的前一天,就核定了地方有非常大分歧的一個地方建設。那個委員,你講地方有餘力,那你要不要問侯市長要不要做?要不要問蔣萬次長要不要做?謝國昌市長要不要做?三個希望做基隆捷運啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
542.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
542.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
委員我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
566.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
586.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我剛才講過捷運是由地方政府來規劃來推動所以在這個過程當中三個市政府都已經北北基都同意的這個方案然後送過來基隆捷運這樣送過來所以中央來決定那如果是你要改變可以啊那就跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
587.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
612.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
臺北市政府、新北市政府還要再去談啊。那你談出來新的看法,你請現在的基隆市政府去跟新北市跟臺北市去談,談你們的計畫是什麼啊。你再來看啊。所以我們持開放態度嘛對不對。我跟委員提一點啦齁,比如說你關心了矽子跟矽科,如果藍線到張書安站,矽子跟矽科都要在張書安轉成你知道嗎。 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
612.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
631.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
但是現在大家基隆捷運是直接到南港站,了解嗎?到南港站還不是要大家把南線轉成?不是,可是你看到細顆細子這麼多,他們全部擠在張書安轉成,所以這個應該是過去式的,以前就是不演嘛,最後我們用基隆捷運來cover這個延伸段,南線的延伸段。 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
632.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
653.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
我覺得要整個基隆來考量不要只為了一個區來考量這樣委員你是代表整個基隆市我從來沒有說反對這個延伸到基隆我們就是部分中間路段的爭議的路線還有沒有討論的空間嗎我是覺得是重疊了真的重疊有沒有討論空間我個人是覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
654.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
677.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
幾乎沒有考論,因為現在基隆捷運已經走這個路線到南港站,你現在從南港要再把它延伸,那不是重疊了嗎?所以說部分的路線,南港達南港到張樹灣站這個部分,我們地方的訴求,部長很清楚嘛,就是用板南線來延伸嘛,那基隆捷運過張樹灣到基隆的部分, |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
677.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
679.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我剛剛一開始就跟你們說明過了第三軌嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
692.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
707.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
當初都是用第三個月當理由嗎?沒有,我跟你報告,現在已經中委會要合訂,現在新北市政府要當主辦當然也要做了喔,你現在再重來就是這個再回到過去了沒關係,我就是要跟我們院長跟部長來確認地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
711.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
736.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
的態度地方政府自己去承擔。我們中央單位對於這樣子的一個合定的計畫還有沒有討論的空間去做調整?有或沒有?我覺得沒有了。因為我路線跟你重疊了啊。我現在是走我的輕軌到南港展覽館。你現在南港展覽館到張刷又變成這個南線的延伸。我是覺得這個...所以汐止人真的很可憐啊。汐止人很可憐。當初西東捷運的時候在規劃的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
740.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
756.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
這個路線拖了很久部長也非常清楚臺北市端對於要不要做有許多的意見案子擱置了導致我們汐止了沒有意見的案子因為臺北市的擱置我們整個案子拖到現在才分段來施工結果今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
758.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
786.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
一條捷運要經過細子完全不用尊重細子人的意見然後就為了當初某某人的一句話講出來的政策要把它來達成地方的意見完全不採納地方做的地方說明會要你們做的報告裡面錯誤有一堆拿這錯誤的報告來給地方政府不是不是那你要捷運是哪些錯誤我現在就回答你你是指哪些錯誤可以好原方案我們基隆捷運我先請問我們基隆捷運當初設置的目的是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
787.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
788.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
基隆捷運轉板南線的人次比例 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
809.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
836.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
只有6.74%也就是多數基隆捷運搭乘的民眾都是在自己基隆捷運裡面的範圍裡面去通勤那這個做出來的報告不就跟我們當初的訴求完全相違背了嗎?我們做出來我們反駁板南線延伸的理由是因為說我們基隆捷運搭乘的人我們不會去搭板南線所以我們沒有這個需求來做板南線的延伸不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
840.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
849.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
如果當時在以前的市政府他願意把阪南縣延伸可是這件事情拖很久才你談到為什麼侯市長要做這個西東縣 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
851.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
872.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
但是最後沒辦法他覺得這部分還是請交通部來協助所以我們現在這一段一直以來都是台鐵第三軌的原因嘛就一開始先對背景的說明了嘛台鐵第三軌的原因拿掉了之後把南線延伸汐止的最大障礙拿掉了嘛不是這個原因是民生汐止線當時的台北市政府不想做 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
874.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
898.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
市長希望做這個尾段這一段,您了解嗎?那是西東嗎?對,所以現在就這樣,因為你民進行沒做,你如果民進行從頭做到尾,這當然是可行。現在是最後在新北覺得說這一段要必須跟中央基隆捷運結合起來,才有西東線跟基隆捷運兩個整合的這個案子。現在你再回到那邊去,我覺得這個整個都又回到過去了,現在已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
899.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
901.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
我現在板南縣就延伸到張樹灣站而已啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
929.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
944.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
我跟你講齁,老公沒辦法,你這樣會讓你的汐止的選民齁,現在基隆捷運是搭在汐止站、汐客站就直接到南港站。你現在以後他們這一些都要搭台鐵到張樹灣站再轉你的那個。 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
948.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
951.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
當時大南港站是因為有高鐵,我再跟各位報告。 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
977.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
982.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
問題是你們的報告就寫說基隆捷運到阪南縣的轉乘率只有6.74%每天8580人啊這是你們寫的啊我必須要回過來說一份檢討報告如果說他能夠讓人家幸福 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
1007.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
1024.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
我們都會尊重但是當地方的民眾提出建議之後我們鐵道局也答應要做了結果後續的報告卻是與我們地方的民眾所了解的事實有許多的很大的一個差異你要拿這一份報告來塞我們汐止民眾的嘴 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
1025.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1030.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
你現在回到過去,這一段根本沒有人要做,我們最後把這一段接上來。 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1047.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1051.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
張素安我們的藍色如果說看左邊的箭頭最下面藍色那是阪南線他指到張素安而西東捷運跟基隆捷運 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1077.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1079.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
那位,你現在已經進行施工了 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1107.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1131.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
西東捷運要施工了,誰反對?沒有人反對過啊?欸,西東捷運這一段是基隆捷運的一段。我再講一次,張樹灣到汐止驅工所是那一段。現在花包了,現在你再回頭講,這個只能二年前...所以我要講的是南港展覽館到張樹灣站。這段跟西東捷運完全沒有任何關係啊。我問你喔。 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1132.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1159.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
如果你現在回來就是那表示我的基隆捷運從張樹灣到南港產專要不要做?如果不做我建議再討論那你要跟雙北來談可以啊當然可以啊然後如果這樣的話要從可行性開始做延伸這個意思台北市政府要重新開始做延伸這個要走很多年 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1160.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1189.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
效果差不多阿所以委員你如果堅持你這個想法為了矽脂區的想法矽脂的民意代表當然為矽脂區人民共同講話阿沒錯阿那如果你這樣的方式那就從頭開始從可信心開始嘛那你我就講過你要跟地方政府在推動這個捷運建設的好好去想可以阿誰反對誰就來自己面對矽脂的民眾阿 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1193.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1218.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
委員他們已經決定蓋囉!他們已經決定蓋囉!而且可以蓋下去囉!那你叫他不要蓋嗎?現在設計準備要施工了那是西東捷運你一直把西東捷運跟阪南縣延伸兩個混在一起您知道那個基隆捷運中和國會合訂環兵過你知道嗎?你知道接下來是什麼嗎?就是設計施工 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1219.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1248.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
是啊是啊,所以接下來就是要進行啊那你一個數位身份證都可以喊,隨便說喊卡就喊卡這個百年的建設,不用考慮到地方的訴求是是是啊那個後面下一張下一張,沒關係這個圖我的訴求很簡單整條基隆捷運我不想去影響到基隆市民的權益沒有爭議的路段我們沒有要擋他從張樹灣到基隆這一段 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1250.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1276.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
我們已經合定了,我們就全力的來施作,因為他也可以跟現有的西東縣來做整合,就是剛剛兩位一直在提的共購共軌段這邊,完全沒有任何的爭議,完全沒有任何的爭議,我當然也希望全力的來推動。那現在要提的就是南港展覽館,就是南港站到張書翰的部分,重啟板南縣延伸的一個評估。 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1278.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1298.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
委員你上次已經有結議了我們也請台北市去做評估但是做了以後這一段的基隆結議就不做了那你這個重新啟動是現在開始喔現在開始是什麼意思可行性最後要還品現在設置百年大計我們不能因為球快然後設計了一個方案然後被我們的後代罵死 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
1299.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
1322.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
一個方案這樣子做下去了我們現在的民意代表沒有辦法面對以後矽脂的後代阿那你現在如果要這樣做那就就啟動阿重來阿這樣重來阿你就啟動阿所以台北就是重來阿沒關係我不是說要或不要我只是要我們的行政院是不是能夠保持開放的態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
1323.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
1351.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
去針對爭議的路段去重新做一個詳細的報告沒有你現在如果要啟動張樹灣到南港的板南線延伸這個事情就是就影響集統捷運那影響集統捷運的時候你就要讓地方政府要來做我說這沒問題我說這沒問題我們會去討論我們會去說服不是市政府講的那好啦我去跟地方政府講的時候地方政府說那你要先去跟行政院講啊每個人都推給別人 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
1355.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
1371.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
對不對?每一個行政單位要有自己的態度嘛對不對?那我現在是立法委員我當然是問中央的態度啊地方政府會這樣講就是甩鍋給中央政府的意思啦我當初在當議員的時候在董事群的時候問當初的那時候劉河蘭是代理市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
1372.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
1387.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
他也是跟我說持開放態度阿我只要確認各單位都是持各方態度都是持開放的態度那我們就有進步的討論吧交通部把案子給市政府了市政府到現在都沒有表達意見阿那所以你要去問市政府的意見阿 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
1388.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
1394.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
市政府表達意見以後再說嗎?市政府表達意見以後再說嗎?我們是這個案子要核定很不容易,因為核定要給經費了,現在你要重來開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
1404.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
1430.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
這是這是重新的就是再回到部分正義的路段從來相關的政治責任我敢提我當然敢擔啊不是不是你你的政策你要問說地方政府同不同意啊如果三個市政府都同意我我只問汐止的居民同不同意哦那不行哦那汐止居民同意那你要問基隆啊基隆同不同意基隆同不同意基隆這邊清美市政府這邊我們來做溝通嘛對不對基隆是這樣啊他從八度一票 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
1431.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
1437.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
就是一車到南港站現在你就是到你這個路線到時候變成一個Y字型的路廊 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
1439.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
1442.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
自己學交通也知道外資型的路廊在運輸效率上面多差。 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
1469.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
1472.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
我們持開放態度嘛那沒關係地方政府要來溝通我來溝通嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
1473.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
1499.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
你就是,他們如果要做可信心就重新來,我自己有看他...好,那不能因為這個東西來去卡張書安到基隆的部分嘛,對不對?張書安到基隆的部分沒有爭議的部分,就繼續吧。基隆今天也改了,張書安轉變成要轉應戰,我要重新...都動到了,都動到了。我們的評估報告裡面就是用不會動到的方案去評估嘛。部長你自己連評估報告都沒有看過,然後現在來跟我講這些... |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
1501.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
1502.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
好沒關係下一個議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
1531.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
1554.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
院長,這個我想跟你確認一下,我們的旁邊的王國才部長有沒有被調報過?確認本人嗎?去年的王國才是今年的王國才嗎?有一部漫畫叫獵人,裡面有一個角色叫熊狸狐,他變成人的形狀,然後模仿人的樣子,然後講話的樣子都一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
1556.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
1558.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
那可不可以部長再重複一遍 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
1587.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
1610.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
可以再重複講一遍嗎?還是我播一次你再講一遍?我交通部現在以行人路權優先,包括我們的四年四百億的計畫,包括各個條例的修正,現在都朝這方面在進行。好,這個反正就是在任部長那天以行人路權的改革跟交通安全當作最重要的一件事情。這是最重要的一個施政政策,沒錯。 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
1611.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
1638.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
那你說你會跟這個入權團體並肩作戰好希望他們當你最強的後盾但現在入權團體你也知道我現在要講什麼嗎?違罪不舉發不祭典這件事情您認為符合您說行人入權的改革跟交通安全是您當作最重要的一件事情這句話嗎?我跟你們報告現在我的確是我在這個道安跟民宴中間要起一個平衡點 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
1639.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
1668.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
市長你們細節也知道路邊停車都困難路邊停車都困難所以他不得不違規停車這件事情是很多聲音都給我了所以我們現在權宜的調整但是我們相關的行人設施包括穿越道包括人行道都繼續在建設所以我是說這個是目前的一個權宜的修法不代表我們行人的建設就是包括我們行政院送來立法院的版本包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
1670.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
1674.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
道路沒有改善以前就有可能啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
1685.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
1710.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
所以...所以...所以...所以...所以挺能行到這件事情在院長的眼裡看起來是稀鬆平常的事情是不是?所以我們會...兩個法案做...兩個法案的理由一個是道路設施的條例交通道設施的條例一個就是相關的這個祭典的條例這兩個任何人在執政的時候都一定要考慮到全... |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
1711.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
1718.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
所以,讓汽車去停人行道沒有關係?我沒有地方停,我可以去停人行道? |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
1728.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
1728.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
微規停車 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
1743.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
1763.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
實際上你打電話那個地方的偷掉車就偷走了你知道嗎?現在只是說民眾檢舉這個患難我們是希望說在違罪裡面讓這個民眾檢舉這個降低一點再到可是並不是不滑你看他你車連行到你打警察指法強度降低就是變相鼓勵沒有強度沒有強度降低啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
1764.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
1783.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
沒有降低?還包括去年交通部給警政署的這個可以勸導的原則還包括我們現在停在人行道民眾檢舉都沒辦法檢舉的。不能檢舉不代表不划你可以打給那個警察局或是你們那個看專線是多少1999還知道來就馬上拖掉了是 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
1785.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
1787.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
還是要處罰啊?還是要處罰啊?還是要處罰啊?還是要處罰啊?還是要處罰啊?還是要處罰啊? |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
1800.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
1818.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
可不可以一起跟我一起摸著良心,把您上次說過的話再說一次。我不用說話,我剛才已經說過了。可不可以在這邊再宣誓一次,院長願不願意再把當天跟大眾承諾的話再宣誓一次。沒關係宣誓更容易,院長願不願意宣誓上次在入權團體活動舉辦講的話。 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
1827.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
1828.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
謝謝廖委員先翔的質詢,也謝謝陳院長的備詢。辦委員會上午的質詢到此為止。 |