| IVOD_ID |
150246 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150246 |
| 日期 |
2024-03-21 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-19-4 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
4 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-03-21T11:42:20+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-03-21T11:49:19+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:06:59 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1be549810cdc3052a5804226dd25da51e8dac5750a339bf8f8ba9b0039caa7a6ed1ecc791caf098c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
賴士葆 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:42:20 - 11:49:19 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-03-21T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請經濟部部長就「當前供水情勢檢討及因應措施」進行報告，並備質詢。
二、審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於經濟部主管：台灣自來水股份有限公司。(詢答)） |
| gazette.lineno |
930 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
賴委員士葆：（11時42分）謝謝主席以及各位先進。有請經濟部王部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：我們請王部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
王部長美花：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
賴委員士葆：請教部長，你有參加去年10月跟12月的兵推吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
王部長美花：我沒有參加。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
賴委員士葆：沒有參加？10月、12月有兵推，行政院主持的。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
王部長美花：對，比較多是次長參加。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
賴委員士葆：財政部長親自去，央行總裁也親自去，你沒有參加？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
王部長美花：我好像有一次是剛好…… |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
賴委員士葆：你都沒有參加過一次？ |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
王部長美花：我好像剛好有一次是因為在國外的關係。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
賴委員士葆：一般大家講兵推都是打仗什麼的，其實維生系統是很重要的，我們的能源、電網的安全韌性、水資源都是非常重要的，萬一我們的電廠被炸掉、萬一我們的電網不通了，沒電就不用玩了，這部分你要不要講一下？就是萬一打仗要怎麼處理電網韌性的問題、水資源的問題等等。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
王部長美花：在兵推時確實針對這些都會做相關的演練。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
賴委員士葆：電網的部分要不要講一下？ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
王部長美花：因為它確實是比較專業的部分，那同仁包括…… |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
賴委員士葆：專業的幫忙一下，誰可以講一下？電網韌性怎麼預防被…… |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
王部長美花：電網韌性相關的兵推同仁沒有在現場。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
賴委員士葆：水資源的部分呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
賴署長建信：水資源的部分，我們透過區域的調度跟備援系統之外，包括臨時的用電措施，我們全國都盤點過了。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
賴委員士葆：沒有問題？ |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
賴署長建信：對，沒有問題。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
賴委員士葆：如果打仗也都不會有缺水的問題？ |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
賴署長建信：不是，那個要看情境，所以在兵推或是各種情境，我們都會來加強演練。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
賴委員士葆：王部長，電價是不是確定要漲了？ |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
王部長美花：審議會現在提出來的方案確實是要漲的。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
賴委員士葆：確定要漲？ |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
王部長美花：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
賴委員士葆：民生跟工業一起漲，是不是？ |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
王部長美花：相關細節電價審議會會做詳細的討論。 |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
賴委員士葆：你可以做到我們黨團提出來的330度以下的民生用電不漲，然後那些工業用電大戶給它漲足，可以嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
王部長美花：謝謝委員意見，我們都會轉達給審議委員會去做參考。 |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
賴委員士葆：部長，現在台電的資本額已經增加到5,800億，然後疫後經濟又給你500億，最近又要1,000億，所以弄一弄已經有6、7,000億在你們手上，並且老百姓的納稅錢給台電這麼多，結果現在又漲電價，等於一頭牛剝兩層皮啊！絕對會造成CPI物價指數持續上漲。央行總裁在立法院說了，他心裡能夠忍受的CPI就是2%，長期的結構2%，我們2月份CPI已經3%了，電價如果再漲，現在交通費率也要漲，萬物又要漲，這個不可不慎啦！部長，很嚴重的事情哦！ |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
王部長美花：就是因為這樣，所以台電在過去的兩、三年確實是吸收了非常多成本，才造成虧損。 |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
賴委員士葆：那也是納稅人的錢，台電怎麼吸收？ |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
王部長美花：因為光1年燃料成本就增加了3,000億，沒有足額去反映電價，所以讓台電確實虧損得比較嚴重。 |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
賴委員士葆：你看哦！股市20,000點大家好高興，可是你注意看，漲的大部分都是電子股啊，電子股剛剛好都是用電大戶，也是用水大戶。 |
| gazette.blocks[35][1] |
你看，石門水庫的水只剩下34.8%；嘉義仁義水庫24.4%，現在台積電說要去嘉義，所以會跟雲林搶水；臺南的白河水庫18.8%，這個看起來都很嚴重，今年又下雨下不多，怎麼辦？水不夠、水資源不夠。 |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
王部長美花：水的部分，事實上我們從去年的豐水期之後就非常慎重，讓留在水庫裡面的水越高越好，而最近水庫的水降得比較多是因為春耕，春耕用了2.6億噸的水。 |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
賴委員士葆：你能不能保證企業的水車載水現象不會發生？敢不敢這樣保證？上一次就因為沒水，企業為了用水，自己派車去載水，那個慘況啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
王部長美花：今年我們都會很謹慎，目前看起來大家注意就好了。 |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
賴委員士葆：你敢保證嗎？確定不會嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
王部長美花：今年的用水很謹慎，應該是可以，我們會很謹慎讓它安全度過。 |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
賴委員士葆：我告訴部長還有各位，國際的一些用電大戶跟用水大戶來臺灣，用電跟用水是一樣的，比如說International Data Centre（IDC），像是Google之類的計算中心放在臺灣，很好啊！大家都覺得很好，結果發現他們是看上臺灣低價的電跟低價的水。請問水價要不要漲？ |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
王部長美花：水價的部分目前還沒有規劃。 |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
賴委員士葆：所以水價不漲？ |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
王部長美花：目前還沒有規劃。 |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
賴委員士葆：只漲電價？水價也是超便宜啊！我們的水價幾乎是世界最便宜的，電價幾乎也是最便宜的，你就會發現之所以便宜都是用人民的納稅錢來補貼，然後水公司一直賠錢、台電一直虧本，就變成這個樣子啊！所以我們的主張就是民生用電、民生用水不能漲，你要漲就漲工業大戶，你可以想一想，股票破2萬點他們賺多少錢？都是電子廠在賺，這些都是用電大戶、用水大戶，這個要區分出來，老百姓才會服氣，否則老百姓不會服氣，好不好？部長，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
王部長美花：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
主席：謝謝，我們繼續請洪孟楷委員詢答。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
236 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-1-19-4 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
林岱樺 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
陳亭妃 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
謝衣鳯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
張啓楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
呂玉玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
張嘉郡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
賴瑞隆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
鄭正鈐 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
陳超明 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
邱志偉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
徐欣瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
鍾佳濱 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
黃珊珊 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
何欣純 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
陳冠廷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[21] |
蔡易餘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[22] |
邱議瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[23] |
劉建國 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
169 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-03-21 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1131801 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1131801_00008 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
一、邀請經濟部部長就「當前供水情勢檢討及因應措施」進行報告，並備質詢；二、審查113年
度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於經濟部主管：台灣自來水股份有限公司。（詢
答） |
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1131801_00013 |
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賴士葆委員請做詢答謝謝主席以及各位先進有請經濟部的王部長我們請王部長我請教部長你有參加去年的10月跟12月的 |
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我好像是剛好有一次在國外的關係 |
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70.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
經濟一般大家講兵隊都是打仗啊什麼的其實很重要一個維生系統是很重要的我們的人員電網的安全韌性水資源都是非常重要的就是萬一我們的電廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
72.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
74.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
在兵推裡面確實對這些都會做相關的演練。 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
94.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
95.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
電網認訊兵推的同仁沒有在現場。 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
119.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
144.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
水資源我們透過區域的調度跟備援的系統之外包括飲食的這個用電的這個措施我們全國都盤點過了沒有問題打造水都不會缺水的問題不是那個要看情境所以我們在兵推或是各種的情境我們會來加強演練那個文部長啊電價是不是確定要漲的 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
150.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
170.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
電價審議會確實現在提出來方案是要漲的確定要漲是民生跟工業一起漲是不是相關的細節他們電價審議會會做詳細的討論你可以做得到我們黨團提出來的330度以下的民生用電不漲然後那些工業用電大戶給他漲足可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
173.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
195.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
謝謝委員的意見我們都會轉達給審議委員會去做參考部長現在台電的資本額已經增加到5800億然後以後經濟又給你500億最近又要1000億所以弄不弄已經有6、7千億在你們手上然後你這個老百姓的納稅錢給台電這麼多結果現在又漲電價等於一頭牛剝兩層皮 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
200.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
203.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
絕對造成CPI物價持續上漲央行總裁在立法院說了他心裡能夠忍受的CPI就是2%長期的結構2%我們奧月份已經3%了CPI已經3%了這個來講電價如果再漲現在交通費率也要漲啊萬物又漲了這些東西是不可不慎啊部長啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
227.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
245.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
很嚴重的事情喔我們就是因為這樣所以台電在過去的兩三年確實是吸收了非常多成本才造成虧損那因為放一年那個燃料成本就增加了3000億所以沒有足爾的去反映電價所以讓台電確實虧損得比較嚴重股市3萬點大家好高興喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
252.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
271.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
可是你注意看長了大部分的電子股阿電子股剛剛好都是用電大戶也是用水大戶我們看下一張碗你看喔石面水庫的水只剩下34.8%嘉義人力水庫因為台積電很容易去嘉義所以產生跟雲林搶水24.4%台南的白鵝水庫18.8% |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
279.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
282.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
這個看起來都很嚴重捏 今天明天 今年又下雨下不多 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
283.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
283.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
每人不能保證啊! |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
311.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
324.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我們企業的水車載水的現象不會發生敢不敢這樣保證上上一次就因為沒水啊企業為了用水啊自己派車去載水啊那個慘況啊這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
326.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
327.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我告訴部長還有各位 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
342.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
363.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
比如說國際的一些的用電大戶啊來台灣跟用水大戶用電跟用水是一樣的比如說International Data Center IDC啊像Google啦什麼之類的計算中心放在台灣哇很好啊大家很好結果你發現他們是看上台灣的低價的電台灣低價的水請問水價要不要漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
368.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
394.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
水價的部分目前還沒有規劃所以不漲 水價不漲目前還沒有規劃市場電價目前水價還是超便宜啊我們的水價幾乎也是世界最便宜的電價幾乎也是最便宜的你就發現到這些便宜的都是用人民的納稅人來補貼然後水公司一直了結台電一直虧本變這個樣子啊所以我們的主張就是民生用電民生用水不能漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
396.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
396.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
好,謝謝。 |