| IVOD_ID |
150170 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150170 |
| 日期 |
2024-03-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-20-4 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期財政委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
4 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期財政委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-03-20T12:23:22+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-03-20T12:34:02+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:40 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/b8deaa01a2e7f1923dbc464c9540eabfed861a3b97380652f8ba9b0039caa7a68f4122116dc310355ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
羅明才 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:23:22 - 12:34:02 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-03-20T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：處理或審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關財政部主管預算凍結書面報告案45案。[如經院會復議，則不予處理或審查]
【3月18日及20日二天一次會】） |
| gazette.lineno |
1134 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
羅委員明才：（12時23分）主席、各位委員、出列席官員大家好。請財政部部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請莊部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
莊部長翠雲：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
羅委員明才：莊部長你好。我們看到整個國內的財政情況，這幾年的稅收一直都是超徵，去年的稅收超徵多少？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
莊部長翠雲：去年我們實收數超過預算數的部分、在全國的部分是3,861億，但是這筆3,861億要給地方496億，因為是屬於中央統籌分配稅款，進入中央特種基金的有430億，所以真正歸到中央的是2,934億。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
羅委員明才：2,934億，所以國庫與以前比起來是還蠻充裕的，因為去年超徵、前年的稅收也超徵，前年的稅收大概是超徵多少？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
莊部長翠雲：111年的部分，我們的稅收在全國是五千多億吧！中央的部分是四千多億，111年。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
羅委員明才：看起來國庫的錢是非常的充裕，但是部長，你知道國內的貧富懸殊一直持續在擴大，現在貧富懸殊的比例是多少？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
莊部長翠雲：貧富懸殊的差距是要看所得分配的一個係數。另外跟委員報告，剛才你提到財政充裕的部分，雖然我們的稅收有超過預算數，但是我們這個錢必須要先減少舉債以及多還債，再加上特別預算也要舉借，所以這個部分其實都有做一個很好的配置。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
羅委員明才：本席要強調、要討論的，因為貧富懸殊的擴大，你還沒把這個數字給我，幾倍？六點幾倍？ |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
莊部長翠雲：主計總處的數據，我們再了解一下。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
羅委員明才：部長，在臺灣的年輕人其實是很辛苦的，國家不是沒錢，國庫是非常飽滿的，包括證交稅，別的不說，國安基金也賺了很多錢。希望部長面對現在這個事實，你有沒有準備幫國內的年輕人，你能幫忙什麼？ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
莊部長翠雲：報告委員，在稅的部分，其實你也知道我們大幅調高免稅額與標準扣除額，幼兒學前特別扣除額也調整，租金支出也從列舉改成特別扣除額。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
羅委員明才：不夠。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
莊部長翠雲：我想這個部分就是要協助中低收入者減輕租稅的負擔，這是一直都在做的。其實我們有44%的民眾，也就是有293萬戶的申報稅率是0，因為我們提高了相關的扣除額之後，需要繳稅的民眾就減少了。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
羅委員明才：現在有一個問題，你說有百分之四十幾的人不需要申報，也就是申報後不需要繳稅，是這個意思吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
莊部長翠雲：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
羅委員明才：可是貧富懸殊還是持續在擴大，本席在這裡建議，部長，你們收了那麼多的錢，能不能想一個好的方式，幫助40歲以下的年輕人──你能給他什麼？你能再大幅度的幫助什麼？這整個會期我在等的就是財政部可以拿出什麼具體的方案？ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
莊部長翠雲：財政部就是財源的籌措…… |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
羅委員明才：譬如鼓勵年輕人要生小孩，但現在是不敢結婚、不敢生小孩，針對這個問題，我覺得財政部應該多做一點事。譬如結婚，我是隨便提提，至於詳細、實際的行動就要由你們提出方案，如果是我來提的話，為了鼓勵年輕人結婚，但是要兩個相愛的人，不是結了一下就離婚的那種，對於真心要結婚的，國家可不可以給他們每個人200萬，生一個小孩就立刻補助100萬，上次就有總統候選人說生第三胎要給100萬。我是覺得生第一胎需要幫助，我們要馬上給他100萬，因為國家不是沒錢啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[19][1] |
我所提的這個在現階段大家都不認真去思考，其實有很多國家的福利政策就是那麼好啊！類似的福利政策，像是歐洲國家、沙烏地阿拉伯以及很多其他財源富足的國家，他們是整體性的、配套性的支持年輕人。臺灣不是啊！臺灣有錢就趕快花，編什麼前瞻啊！或是做一些大家覺得浪費的事，沒有實際用在刀口上，所以產生了很多的蚊子館，對不對？或是武器一次買了幾千億、幾千億。在這個會期，是不是可以請部長想一下，你當部長也很久了，是否能提出一個可以具體幫助年輕人的法案，我就趕快來排？ |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
莊部長翠雲：是，委員，我非常認同委員的看法，也就是要幫助年輕人，而且要有一個配套的措施。至於這個配套措施，剛剛我講的都是租稅面，另外就是給予補貼面，譬如剛才提到的幼兒學前特別扣除額可以增加扣除。事實上，在育兒也好、托兒也好，衛福部及教育部都有相關的補貼，這就是從支出面給他們一些支援，譬如公立學校或私立學校的高中職學生免學費等等，我想政府都是在各方面給予補助。另外譬如青安貸款…… |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
羅委員明才：那些都是杯水車薪啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
莊部長翠雲：對，這個就是支出面要達到多少的問題。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
羅委員明才：那個都是於事無補啊！大家也無感啊！如果就以上所講的，很棒，我給你拍拍手，但貧富懸殊還是那麼大、還是持續在擴增中，表示提出的這些政策是不夠的。我舉個例子，目前彩券發行的經銷點總共有幾個點？5萬個點。部長，我們這些條例大概是十幾年前的，只有老弱婦孺及身障者才有資格當彩券經銷商，你知道這幾年物價飆漲，工資從120元到現在的一百八十幾元，其實他們的成本也是一直高漲，過去你們是給他們多少的服務費？ |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
莊部長翠雲：請國庫署來說明，好嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
羅委員明才：簡短，好嗎？趕快。 |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
陳署長柏誠：電腦型的佣金比例是8%，立即型的刮刮樂是10%。 |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
羅委員明才：8%的部分夠不夠？ |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
陳署長柏誠：這是在公告事項裡，從過去到現在這樣的比例應該是穩定的。 |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
羅委員明才：這些弱勢團體開的彩券行，現在面臨電價要飆漲、人事成本也增加、租金也增加，可以說是相對的剝削啊！事實上，他現在賺不到8%，相較之下可能只剩下5%，對於這些弱勢族群、單親家庭的經銷商、彩券商，你們給予的服務費要不要增加？ |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
陳署長柏誠：我想透過這樣的固定比例，如果在一些產品的設計上能讓大家更願意參與公彩的話，當餅做大了，銷售額變大了，其實乘上8%或10%的金額也就會變多了。 |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
羅委員明才：問題是量有增加嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
陳署長柏誠：這個是大家要努力的目標。 |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
羅委員明才：沒有啊！去年與前年比起來是節節衰退。 |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
陳署長柏誠：沒有，不會。 |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
羅委員明才：你們有實際的數據再提供給我。 |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
陳署長柏誠：是，我們再提供給委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
羅委員明才：部長，現在可以說是百物齊漲、民生凋敝，很多民眾的生活是很困難的，所以本席在這裡提了一個案，紅標米酒凍漲，不知道部長能不能體恤民意，在萬物飆漲的此時，拜託！拜託！紅標米酒是最基本的民生物資，這個部分不要漲，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
莊部長翠雲：好的，委員這邊的提案，我們就遵照辦理，暫時凍漲。 |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
羅委員明才：可以？ |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
莊部長翠雲：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
羅委員明才：感謝，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
莊部長翠雲：謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
主席：羅委員，待會要處理臨提，你要留下來。 |
| gazette.blocks[43][1] |
今日登記發言的委員均已詢答完畢，現在要處理中央政府總預算財政主管預算的解凍報告案，共計9案，因為法定人數不足，我們就先宣讀臨時提案，共計2案，請議事人員宣讀。 |
| gazette.blocks[43][2] |
一、 |
| gazette.blocks[43][3] |
有鑑於我國租屋市場課稅難題存在已久，不僅影響賦稅公平，且在擔心房東超額轉嫁給房客情形下，政府相關租屋政策動輒得咎，導致對於租屋市場管理能力不佳，儘管不斷推出公益出租人等政策，然成效不佳。近年台灣社會對居住正義議題日益重視，政府除廣建社宅，陸續通過房地合一稅、租賃專法、囤房稅2.0等法案，應趁此機會澈底檢視解決房東逃漏稅問題。爰此，要求財政部應於1個月內提出免追溯租金所得税等誘因之租稅特赦可行性評估，以強化房東納管比例之作法。 |
| gazette.blocks[43][4] |
提案人：郭國文 |
| gazette.blocks[43][5] |
連署人：伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe 王世堅 |
| gazette.blocks[43][6] |
二、 |
| gazette.blocks[43][7] |
鑒於近期物價飆漲，2月CPI年增率衝破3%，其中以食物類漲幅最驚人。為照顧民眾生活，爰要求財政部旗下台灣菸酒公司將屬民生物資之紅標米酒暫時凍漲。 |
| gazette.blocks[43][8] |
提案人：羅明才 李彥秀 陳玉珍 王鴻薇 謝衣鳯 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
278 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-1-20-4 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
郭國文 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
林德福 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
賴惠員 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
王世堅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
顏寬恒 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
李坤城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
黃珊珊 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
吳秉叡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
陳玉珍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
李彥秀 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
鍾佳濱 |
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黃國昌 |
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王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
謝衣鳯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
羅明才 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
215 |
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2024-03-20 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1131601 |
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立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
處理或審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關財政部主管預算凍結書面報告案45案 |
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主席、各委員、處列席、官員大家好。主席、各部請財政部部長。請莊部長。委員好。莊部長你好。我們看到整個國內的財政情況,這幾年稅收一直都超增。那去年的稅收超增多少? |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
24.42 |
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去年的部分我們的實收數超過預算數的部分在全國的部分是3861億但是呢這3861億要給地方要496億因為屬於中央統籌分配稅款然後進入中央特種基金的有430億所以真正歸到中央的是2934億 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
47.123 |
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是2934億所以國庫是跟以前比起來是還蠻充裕的啦齁那因為去年超徵前年稅收也超徵前年大概稅收是超徵多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
64.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
81.369 |
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111年的部分我們的稅收是超過了中央的部分是超過300總共全國是3000不對5000多億吧然後中央部分是4000多億1111年對 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
84.652 |
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104.219 |
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對,所以看起來是國庫的錢是非常的充裕但是部長你知道現在整個國內的貧富懸殊一直持續在擴大現在這個貧富懸殊的比是多少比例 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
107.051 |
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130.655 |
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平復懸殊才那是看那個所得分配的一個係數那另外委員跟委員報告您說財政的一個充裕的部分其實我們雖然稅收有超過預算數但是我們這個錢必須要先減少舉債跟多還債所以再加上特別預算也要舉借所以這個部分其實都有做一個很好的配置 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
131.795 |
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158.232 |
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本席要強調要討論的就是因為貧富懸殊的擴大所以你這個數字還沒給我那幾倍?六點幾倍?主計總署的數據我們再瞭解一下上面有啊其實部長我跟你討論的就是說在臺灣的年輕人其實是很辛苦的 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
160.146 |
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185.018 |
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國家不是沒錢國家國庫是非常的飽滿的你們包括徵交稅別的不說國安基金也賺了很多錢希望部長面對現在的這個事實你有沒有準備幫國內的年輕人你能幫助什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
187.601 |
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191.563 |
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報告在稅的部分其實您也知道我們大幅的調高免稅額跟標準扣除額然後幼兒學錢特別扣除額也調整然後租金支出也從列舉改到特別扣除額我想這個部分一直協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
204.187 |
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230.715 |
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就是說總計收入者他可以減輕租稅的負擔這個是一直都在做的然後其實我們有百分之44的民眾事實上是每就有293萬戶他的申報的稅率是0因為我們提高了這相關的扣除額以後那需要繳稅的民眾就變得減少的對所以部長現在一個問題喔你說百分之四十幾的部分他其實可以不用申報的 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
231.943 |
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259.634 |
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就是申報也不用繳稅是這個意思可是貧富懸殊還是持續在擴大本席在這裡建議部長您收了那麼多的錢能不能想一個好的方式幫助40歲以下的年輕人你能給他什麼你能在大幅度能幫助什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
260.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
282.896 |
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其實我這一整個會期喔我在等的就是財政部你可以拿出什麼具體的方案報告齁比如說能不能鼓勵年輕人他以後要生小孩現在是生結婚都不敢結婚生也不敢生齁這個問題齁其實我覺得財政部應該多做一點事啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
284.398 |
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311.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
比如說結婚我是隨便提提啦詳細的這個實際的行動你們要提出方案比如說我來提的話我大概想說年輕人他比如說鼓勵他結婚啦但是要真的是兩個相愛的啦不是結了又一下要離婚那一種真心要結婚的比如說我本人來講我就覺得那可不可以國家每個人就給他兩百萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
313.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
341.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
生一個小孩馬上就補助他一百萬因為上次總統有人在講啊就是第三胎給一百萬我是覺得第一胎他就是需要幫助我們馬上給他一百萬因為國家不是沒錢啊那我所提這個現階段大家都不認真去思考有很多好的國家他們就福利政策就是那麼好的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
342.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
371.186 |
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類似的福利政策對不對歐洲國家還有像沙烏地阿拉伯還有很多其他國家財源是富足的他們是整體性的是配套性的來支持年輕人台灣不是啊台灣有錢就趕快花什麼編什麼錢簪啊或者是做一些大家覺得是浪費的 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
372.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
388.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
沒有實際用在刀口上的所以是產生了很多很多的文字館對不對或者是武器一次買了幾千億幾千億是不是可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
389.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
406.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
請部長想一下這個會期你當部長也當很久了你能不能提出一個比較具體可以幫助年輕人的的方案我非常認同委員的一個看法也就是說幫助年輕人 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
406.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
411.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
然後有一個配套的一個措施那這個配套措施我剛剛講的都是租稅面那另外就是給予補貼面我想剛剛我們講說學錢又學錢特別扣除而可以增加扣除事實上在育兒也好托兒也好在我們的衛福部也有相關或者是教育部都有相關的一些補貼這就是說從 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
425.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
450.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
支出面給他們一些資源比如說公立學校或者私立學校的那高中值以上的高中值的學生免學費等等我想這個部分都政府都是在各個方面來做補助那另外比如說像我們親安貸款那個都是杯水車薪那這個就是說支出面要達到多少的問題那個都是於事無補啊大家也無感啊如果以上剛剛所講的很棒 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
455.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
470.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我給你拍拍手可是貧富懸殊還是那麼大還是持續在擴增當中表示這些政策提出是不夠的我舉個例子現在財政的發行我們全部的這個經銷點有幾個點五萬個點那部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
479.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
505.734 |
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這個我們以前的這條例大概十幾年前對於這些經銷商都是老弱婦孺殘障他們才可以有這個資格去做彩券商那你知道這幾年物價飆漲工資從120現在180幾他的一些成本其實一直高漲你過去給他們是多少的服務費 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
512.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
530.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
電腦型的用金率是8%然後立即型的呱呱樂是10%好那8%的部分夠不夠這個是在公告的事項裡面所以這目前資料而且過去那你面對這些若是團體他們現在開的這些彩券行現在電價要飆漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
538.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
563.888 |
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人事成本也增加租金也增加所以相對的剝削你的8%事實上他現在賺不到8%了相較之下可能只有剩下5%那這個部分對這些弱勢族群單親家庭這些經銷商財政商的服務費要不要給予這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
566.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
593.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
曾加我想透過這樣的一個固定比例如果說大家在一些產品的設計上能夠讓大家更多來參與那個公才的話他透過這個餅做大了以後銷售額變大其實層上那個8%或10%的那個金額也就會變多了那問題你這量有增加嗎這個是大家要努力的目標沒有啊去年跟前年比起來是節節衰退啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
598.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
616.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
現在可以說是百物齊掌啊民生凋敝很多民眾的生活啊他是很困難的啊所以本席在這裡有提了一個案啊就是紅標米酒啊現在要凍漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
618.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
638.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
不曉得部長能不能體恤民意啊在萬物飆漲的時候拜託拜託紅標米酒最基本的民生物資啊這個部分不要漲好不好好的委員這邊的一個提案我們就中暫時動長嗎我們遵照辦理是可以好感謝謝謝 |