| IVOD_ID |
149834 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149834 |
| 日期 |
2024-03-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-19-3 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-03-14T09:26:44+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-03-14T09:36:23+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:09:39 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/38af2da376d23135c7de8efbd043ce9c51d5fa63d75d4c3df8ba9b0039caa7a6ba0ce5b3b925cb395ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
陳亭妃 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:26:44 - 09:36:23 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-03-14T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於經濟部主管：台灣中油股份有限公司。(詢答)【3月11日、13日及14日三天一次會】） |
| gazette.lineno |
130 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
陳委員亭妃：（9時26分）謝謝主席，我們請部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請王部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
王部長美花：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
陳委員亭妃：部長，我們一直強調台電的部分是非戰之罪，這是俄烏戰爭後整個國際情勢造成的狀況，因為所有的天然氣等等的原物料整個上漲，所以導致台電在電價的部分有虧損，而且虧損的比例增加。我們認為這部分不應該由我們人民全面買單，我們才認為應該要編列預算去做所謂的撥補，可是好像我們的主計長跟你的態度有點不一樣，主計長的態度是，現在可運用的才1,500億，如果全部都給你來做台電的虧損補貼的話，那麼政府手上可以用的餘額幾乎沒有，這是很危險的，那這怎麼辦？這怎麼辦？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
王部長美花：謝謝委員。這部分我們還在跟主計總處試算，我們也謝謝院裡面也願意支持，至於具體的金額，這個部分確實還在試算當中，還沒有給我們最後的答案，我們在第一個有這樣撥補以後…… |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
陳委員亭妃：那1,500億當時是誰定出來的？1,500億…… |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
王部長美花：不是定的問題，而是說我們希望爭取，跟院裡面爭取…… |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
陳委員亭妃：是啊！這個金額應該也是你們有計算過的嘛，大概要有這樣的金額嘛，是不是？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
王部長美花：關於金額的部分，其實我們只能表達說希望院裡面可以怎麼樣來…… |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
陳委員亭妃：當然，我說部長，這個1,500億也是當時候台電經過計算，然後找出民眾整個漲電價的壓力最小的一個數字，應該是這個樣子嘛，所以才會有1,500億這樣的數字，這個應該也是你們已經有估算過的，你們也因為估算過才用這樣去跟行政院提出我們的訴求。當然行政院還沒核定，但是我們看到主計總處主計長的態度就不一樣，如果今天沒有到達1,500億，那是不是有可能我們漲的電費會更高？ |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
王部長美花：相關的細節，坦白講那有很多的數據，我們會來精算。另外一個就是在過往電價審議會這邊其實也都有考慮到，確實包括通膨的問題怎麼樣做細緻的安排，確實前兩次也有這樣的例子，所以他們會去考慮。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
陳委員亭妃：不是，部長，今天這個新聞一出來大家開始擔心，因為1,500億當時候經濟部一定是經由我們國營會、台電大家估算過，大概有1,500億對於整個電價的虧損跟我們漲電價的壓力會減到最輕，所以才有這個數字。可是現在主計總處的意思是，我們如果要用1,500億，可能未來政府的運用餘額就會不夠、會有危險，所以這會產生什麼樣的狀況？是不是如果萬一沒有1,500億，電價會漲得更高？部長，我今天在這裡慎重拜託，我們不能讓人民有太多壓力，在電價的部分我們一直講，既然有撥補或是有虧損的補貼，我們就要從民生，不論多少就是從民生，不要讓民生漲得太高，你一漲的話會轉嫁到物價，物價一上去就回不來了，現在的狀況是承受不了的。部長，可不可以？ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
王部長美花：是，委員提到的這部分確實也是電價審議會裡面最關切的其中一個議題，這部分我們會細緻地來安排。是。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
陳委員亭妃：就是不論今天最後院版拍板定案跟主計總處協調到哪一個金額，不管多少金額都要先從民生方面去做撥補、補貼，絕對不能讓整個民生的壓力造成炸鍋。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
王部長美花：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
陳委員亭妃：這部分我們再三拜託，否則今天我相信這一個新聞出來，大家就開始議論紛紛了，哇！是不是會一飛沖天，一次漲到夠、一次漲到足？很多這些問號就出來了，對於現在整體民生經濟的發展絕對是不利的。 |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
王部長美花：是，我們都會很仔細的來考慮委員提的這些問題。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
陳委員亭妃：這個要麻煩一下部長極力爭取、回歸民生。 |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
王部長美花：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
陳委員亭妃：讓民生物價能夠穩定住，這才是我們在經濟發展當中非常重要的依據。還有，我之前非常關心的就是我們的管線問題，部長，我們國營事業地下管線的圖資是由國營司在負責，但是你知道嗎？之前其實就發生了臺南山上淨水場下游送水管線的工程被挖斷管路，在上個禮拜臺南仁德又發生了天然氣管線遭挖斷，在緊急處置後還有待修復，雖然馬上去做了緊急處理，可是這表示是有危機的，我們地下管線的圖資根本沒有辦法監控，挖下去發生問題了，才看要怎麼彌補，可是如果沒有挖到，大家就覺得「好加在」，是這樣嗎？我們對在地底下管線的圖資要怎麼辦呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
王部長美花：關於地下管線的圖資，這個我確實有責成相關的單位，包括我們經濟部的中油、台電、台水，甚至其實有一些是別的部會的管線，這個部分會有幾個情形，一個就是當時蓋的時候跟後來相比，地形有一點點變動，這是第一個。第二個，早期…… |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
陳委員亭妃：可是變動也不可能變動到這樣，因為他在施工一定有一個所謂的「餘裕」空間，他不可能說今天就從它旁邊硬是要挖進去，不可能嘛！他一定有一個緩衝，那這個緩衝怎麼可能會因為整個地質變動然後差了那麼遠、差了那麼大，不可能啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
王部長美花：現在對這一些我有責成大家，第一個有新的科技，第二個有一些比較好的工法，可以來預防發生再挖斷的問題。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
陳委員亭妃：是啊！現在就是可以在施工前使用探測儀器進行探測，重點是我們有沒有落實嘛！大家就便宜行事嘛！挖到了再說嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
王部長美花：我有責成他們，這個確實要去做。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
陳委員亭妃：挖到了算倒楣，現在好像大家的共識是這樣，挖到了算倒楣喔？幾次都這樣啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
王部長美花：沒有、沒有，就像委員講的，這個確實是一個要重視的議題沒有錯。 |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
陳委員亭妃：部長，請在1個月內說明國營司對於我們油、電、水這三項國營事業的地下管線到底怎麼處理，對圖資怎麼辦，之前我就要求過了，可是到現在還沒開始看到半點文字，麻煩在1個月內給我們。 |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
王部長美花：他們前幾天有送一份報告，剛送。 |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
陳委員亭妃：那個不是很清楚，我要清楚你們未來SOP要怎麼做，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
主席：好，國營司可以嗎？1個月內可以把清楚的資料送給委員嗎？然後也送給經濟委員會的每一位委員，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
胡司長文中：是，遵照辦理。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
主席：謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
主席（陳委員亭妃代）：我們請邱議瑩召委質詢，謝謝。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
218 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-1-19-3 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
邱議瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
陳亭妃 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
張啓楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
張嘉郡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
鄭正鈐 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
陳超明 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
賴瑞隆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
蔡易餘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
邱志偉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
黃珊珊 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
徐欣瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
牛煦庭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
謝衣鳯 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
169 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-03-14 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1131201 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1131201_00005 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於經濟部主管：台灣中油股份有限公司
（詢答） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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謝謝主席,我們請部長。來,請王部長。是,委員好。是,部長。我們一直強調就是說在台電的部分因為非戰之罪,這是整個國際情勢,然後二五戰爭而造成的一個狀況。那所有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
33.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
57.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
這一個天然氣等等的一些原物料整個上漲所以導致台電這個店家的部分有虧損而且虧損的比例是增加那我們認為這個部分不應該由我們人民來買單全面買單我們才認為說應該要來編列預算去做這樣的一個所謂的撥補 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
60.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
84.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
可是好像我們的主計長跟你的態度有點不一樣主計長的態度是說現在可運用的才1500億那如果全部都給你台電來做這樣的一個虧損補貼的話那麼政府手上可以用的餘額幾乎沒有這是很危險的那這怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
86.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
86.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
1500億當時候是誰訂出來的? |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
113.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
141.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
一千五百億不是定的問題而是說我們希望爭取跟院裡面爭取是啊就是說你這個應該也是你們有計算過的嘛大概是要有這樣的金額嘛是不是是怎麼樣的金額其實是我們只能表達說希望院裡面可以怎麼樣來支持當然我說部長這個一千五百億也是你當時候台電經過計算然後最小的 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
142.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
146.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
一個對於民眾整個漲電價壓力的一個數字嘛應該是這個樣子嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
152.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
173.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
那所以才會有1500億這樣的數字 這個應該也是你們已經有估算過的你們也因為估算過才用這樣去跟行政院提出我們的訴求那當然行政院還沒核定但是我們看到主計長、主計總署他的態度就不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
175.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
183.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
那如果今天沒有到達1500億那是不是有可能我們漲的電費會更高? |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
185.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
190.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
關於這個細節坦白講那個很多的數據然後我們會很來精算那另外一個就是說在過往電價審議會這邊也其實都有考慮到確實包括通膨的問題怎麼樣怎麼樣做細緻的安排那也確實前兩次也有這樣的例子不是部長因為今天這個新聞一出來大家開始擔心啊因為1500億是當時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
215.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
235.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
經濟部一定是經由我們國營會台電大家估算過大概有1500億會對於整個電價的虧損跟我們漲電價的壓力會減到最輕所以才有這個數字可是現在主計總署的意思是我們如果要用1500億 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
237.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
257.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
可能未來政府的一個運用餘額就會不夠會有危險所以這個會產生什麼樣的狀況那是不是如果萬一沒有1500億會漲得更高部長我今天在這裡慎重拜託 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
259.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
287.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
今天我們不能讓人民有太多壓力在電價部分我們一直講既然有撥補或是有虧損的一個補貼我們要從民生不論多少就是從民生不要讓民生漲得太高你一漲的話會轉嫁到物價物價一上去就回不來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
289.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
317.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
現在承受不了現在的狀況是承受不了的部長可不可以是是委員提到的這個部分確實也是店家審議會裡面而最關切的其中一個議題那這個我們會細緻的安排是就是不論你今天最後院版拍板定案跟主計總處協調到哪一個金額不管多少金額都是要由民生 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
318.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
337.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
先去做這樣的一個撥補補貼絕對不能讓整個民生壓力造成炸鍋這個是我們再三拜託否則今天我相信這樣的一個新聞出來大家就開始議論紛紛了是不是會一飛從天 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
344.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
370.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
一次漲到夠、一次漲到足這些很多的問號就出來了對現在整個民生經濟的發展絕對是不利的我們都會很仔細的來考慮委員提的這些問題這個部長要麻煩一下齁極力爭取回歸民生讓民生能夠穩定住物價 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
372.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
400.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
這才是我們在經濟發展當中非常重要的依據還有我之前非常關心的就是我們的管線問題部長我們地下管線的圖資國營事業地下管線圖資是由國營司在負責的但是你知道當時候其實臺南就發生了臺南山上淨水廠下游送水管線 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
402.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
431.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
的工程被挖斷管路好上個禮拜台南仁德又發生了天然氣管線遭挖斷雖然緊急處置後還有待修復可是雖然馬上去做了緊急處理可是表示這是有危機的我們地下管線的圖資根本沒有辦法監控 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
432.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
445.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
挖下去發生問題了才知道怎麼彌補可是如果沒有挖到大家就覺得是這樣嗎我們的土地在地底下 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
448.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
475.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
在這個地下管線的投資這個我確實有責成相關的單位包括我們經濟部的中油、台電、台水那甚至其實有一些是別的部會的管線那這個部分第一個會有幾個情形一個就是當時蓋的時候跟後來其實地形有一點點變動這是第一個可是變動也不可能變動到說因為它在施工一定有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
477.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
487.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
所謂的阿蘇比的空間他不可能說我今天就從他旁邊硬是要把它挖進去不可能嘛他一定有一個緩衝那這個緩衝請問怎麼可能會因為整個地質變動然後差了那麼遠差了那麼大 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
498.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
501.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
現在這些我有責成大家第一個有新的科技第二個有一些比較好的工法來預防這些再挖斷的問題現在就是有可以在施工前使用探測儀器進行探測現在是重點我們有沒有落實大家就便宜行事挖了我們再說我有責成他們這個確實要去做現在好像大家的 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
526.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
529.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
共識是這樣欸,挖刀算倒霉喔?沒有沒有,這個確實委員講這是一個很重、要重視的議題沒有,部長,一個月請把到底我們國營師對於我們國營事業的這三項油、電、水我們的管線到底怎麼處理,地下投資怎麼辦? |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
551.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
577.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
之前我就要求過了,現在還沒看到半點文字麻煩一下,一個月馬上給我們。他們前幾天有送一份報告,剛送。那個不很清楚,我要清楚你們未來SOP要怎麼做。謝謝。國營司可以嗎?一個月內可以把清楚的資料都送,然後也送給經濟委員會的每一位委員,好不好? |