| IVOD_ID |
149818 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149818 |
| 日期 |
2024-03-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-20-3 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期財政委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期財政委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-03-13T12:18:11+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-03-13T12:34:01+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:50 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7ed54bd69a3b6903f49f88528c8f67bbb77cff0621b76d91f8ba9b0039caa7a6739038d26760b9c95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
張啓楷 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:18:11 - 12:34:01 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-03-13T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院主計總處朱主計長澤民、審計部陳審計長瑞敏率所屬單位主管列席業務報告，並備質詢。
【3月13日及14日二天一次會】） |
| gazette.lineno |
1355 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
張委員啓楷：（12時18分）主席，請主計長和審計長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請主計長和審計長。 |
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朱主計長澤民：委員好。 |
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張委員啓楷：主計長跟審計長好。今天很高興，看到這麼多資深的審計人員跟主計人員，要跟你們致敬，你們為人民看緊荷包，對國家的貢獻是很大的。啓楷今天要先給大家看一個畫面，這個畫面，我相信有很多資深的主計跟審計人員的印象應該很深刻，就是三十年前，同樣在這個地方，在財政委員會，那時的審計長叫做蘇振平，當過財政部長的立法委員王建煊質詢蘇振平時說，有部分機關以遠超過市價的價格去承租辦公室，浪費了民脂民膏。當時的審計長蘇振平很有風骨，他說他已經開始注意這個問題了，已經把最近幾年高價承租的單位列為清查重點，王建煊問他要多久才可以處理好，蘇振平說這件事情半年做不好就切腹自殺，媒體的評價說他是一個有風骨的審計長，我很期待我今天要質詢的主計長跟審計長一樣是有風骨的，好不好？我們肯定主計人員跟審計人員的貢獻，所以我今天把大家懷念的這個畫面調出來給大家看，可是呢？關於數位發展部，我先問一件事情，它為什麼一定要在市中心？租金為什麼一年半要花掉7,000萬？更離譜的是，為什麼裝潢費就用掉3,000萬？主計長，你當初為什麼會批准這筆預算？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
朱主計長澤民：那個租金是整筆的，它到底要花多少在上面，我不能夠說……因為它有去找國有財產署，希望國有財產署幫忙找，結果都沒有適當的空間。 |
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張委員啓楷：不好意思，主計長，我打岔你的話，你剛才說它一定要在市中心，大家看一下唐鳳怎麼說，他說：「我在哪裡上班，我在哪裡都沒關係。」數位部為什麼一定要在市中心？要在蛋黃區？他說他直接拿筆點下去就可以批改了，指紋按上去就可以簽公文了，他特別說：「我在哪裡上班都不是很重要。」主計長，行政院對於所有的部會、所有的機關在外面租辦公室，是有要點、有明確規範的。數位部現在分兩個部分，在新光大樓的辦公室有354個人，對不對？才354個人，為什麼一定要在市中心？為什麼354個人在一年半要用到7,000萬？這不是民脂民膏嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
朱主計長澤民：跟委員報告，這個是過渡時期，行政院曾經在今年1月的時候…… |
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張委員啓楷：主計長，你是老實人，我請問一下，你能不能從今天回去檢討，這筆錢不要再編了？我再問你更重要的事情，好不好？它為什麼用掉3,000萬的裝潢費用？今天最新的新聞是，立法院院長韓國瑜把總務處長換掉了，為什麼？一個立法委員辦公室的裝潢費用30萬，數位部一個辦公室用掉3,000萬的裝潢費用，而且還是半個而已，他有兩個地方，對不對？一個新光大樓的辦公室用掉3,000萬，跟我們115個立法委員全部的裝潢費用差不多，主計長，我們兩個和審計長找時間去看看是不是鑲金的。第二個，這個有沒有責任？當初招標、決標的公文、契約，在一個禮拜內送到本席辦公室，可不可以？ |
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朱主計長澤民：這個可能要跟數位發展部調，我不能調…… |
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張委員啓楷：他花你的錢，花國家的錢，為什麼我要問你？我當然是對你啊。 |
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朱主計長澤民：我不能調，我沒有那個權力。 |
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張委員啓楷：你的錢被花掉了，這個責任是在你，我現在要追一個責任，第一個，當初主計單位裡面是誰批准了這7千萬？這是一個責任，對不對？誰把這3,000萬給他？主計處都沒有責任？沒有責任嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
朱主計長澤民：對。數位部有他們的主計人員，有他們的業務需求…… |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
張委員啓楷：那不是你管的，你是一條鞭耶！ |
| gazette.blocks[13][1] |
不好意思，我請問審計長，你應該也是有風骨的審計長，老實講，這段時間我們看你們的決算報告，都覺得寫得不錯。可以嗎？審計部，可以這樣花錢嗎？ |
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陳審計長瑞敏：我們今年會查。 |
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張委員啓楷：今年會查？ |
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陳審計長瑞敏：會。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
張委員啓楷：主計長，你請在數位部的主計人員把當初裝潢費用怎麼決標的、怎麼招標的公文在一個禮拜內送到我辦公室，可以的話，我們三個人一起去數位部看，來開箱，數位部是鑲金塊的嗎？是不是？為什麼用3,000萬的裝修費用？裝潢費用為什麼那麼貴？ |
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朱主計長澤民：可以請他們說明，但是去調查他們是不是要透過立法院，詳細情形我不曉得…… |
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張委員啓楷：本席要求還不行嗎？你要什麼程序？ |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
主席：我們等一下做一個…… |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
張委員啓楷：立委的權限不能調這個資料嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
朱主計長澤民：要院會通過才行。 |
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張委員啓楷：主席，玉珍啊，本席要這個資料有過分嗎？這是不是立委明定的權限？ |
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主席：政府資訊公開是應該的。這個也沒有弊端的話，何懼之有？看多久提供。 |
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朱主計長澤民：要去調閱的話，是不是有一定的法律程序？ |
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主席：招標資訊這些都很公開啊。 |
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張委員啓楷：主計長，我去質詢所有的單位，第一次遇到你這樣說你沒有權限，不能把這個資料送來的，你是第一個。 |
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朱主計長澤民：我沒有說不能送來，因為我不是…… |
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張委員啓楷：這不是立委明定的權限嗎？而且幫人民看緊荷包，不是只有我，還有你，那麼多的審計人員、主計人員在這裡…… |
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朱主計長澤民：是各部會的權責。您可以要求數位部…… |
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張委員啓楷：我當然會去跟數位部要，可是我對著你嘛，你管錢的啊，你叫你的主計人員去。數位部有你的主計人員在那裡嗎？ |
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朱主計長澤民：當然有啊。 |
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張委員啓楷：有，你去跟他拿啊。 |
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朱主計長澤民：這個能不能這樣子，我必須…… |
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張委員啓楷：你不知道？以前所有立法委員要跟你拿資料，你會說可能有弊端、可能浪費了，你都這樣回答嗎？ |
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朱主計長澤民：不是這樣子，委員如果有必要的話，可以請求他們提供。 |
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張委員啓楷：好，我就是有必要，不是請求他們，是請求你。 |
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主席：主計長，你們是一條鞭的，有派人在數位發展部裡頭嘛？那你們主計的人當初應該也會提出相關意見，如果沒有，是不是也有相關的責任？這也是張委員要追究的，所以你們如果覺得沒有問題，就提供資料，這沒有涉及到什麼政府資訊公開或招標的。 |
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朱主計長澤民：沒有，我要去看法律的程序到底怎麼走。謝謝。 |
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張委員啓楷：主計長，你到底有什麼為難的地方？立法委員依職權跟你要東西，你怎麼可以這樣答？你這不是藐視國會嗎？不是藐視我一個立法委員，是藐視國會，哪位同仁可以跟主計長講？ |
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朱主計長澤民：可以請數位部說明，但調帳是不可以的。 |
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主席：招標不是公開的嗎？ |
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張委員啓楷：這個招標的公開文件為什麼不行？他要裝潢，是不是要去你那邊說明招標的過程，說明為什麼拿多少錢？招標、決標都是公開的啊！ |
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主席：這個應該都有公開資訊，你們統整一下，送給張委員。 |
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張委員啓楷：主計長，你要怎麼知道他的錢花去哪裡？ |
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黃處長叔娟：跟張委員說明一下，依照預算法，我們是針對預算執行情形，可以請他說明。至於委員你提到的是涉及到合約的部分，合約的部分就要由數位部來提供。 |
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張委員啓楷：你很專業，就是要提供說明，你如果叫他來，要說明什麼？當然是合約書和招標、決標的公文，不然他要說什麼？他跟你講什麼？當然是帶這兩個最關鍵的文件啊。 |
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主席：你們就請數位發展部的主計單位提供給你們總處，總處再送來立法院就好了。 |
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張委員啓楷：你叫他來說明，然後你就叫他把我剛剛講的這個東西拿來，包含招標、決標的合約書。 |
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朱主計長澤民：招標、決標的合約書可以不可以叫他們拿來，這個我必須…… |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
張委員啓楷：主計長，這有什麼秘密？ |
| gazette.blocks[51][1] |
審計長，這個有秘密嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：關於招標、決標，有一個網站上…… |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
主席：對啊。合約書也是都上網公告的。 |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
張委員啓楷：可能網上都已經有了，你都還不給我，你是在…… |
| gazette.blocks[55][0] |
主席：請主計總處整理出來就好了。 |
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張委員啓楷：好不好？好啦，主計長，一個禮拜啦。 |
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朱主計長澤民：我把網站上的資料拿來。 |
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張委員啓楷：不只網站，網站看了以後，裡面還有東西。 |
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朱主計長澤民：如果叫他把帳拿出來，我必須研究…… |
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張委員啓楷：你如果給我的東西不夠齊全，我們再來一起討論，好不好？好，一個禮拜內把你認為可以給我的資料，包含我剛剛要求的公開招標的文件、決標的文件和合約書送過來，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[60][1] |
另外，我還要問你一個也是很扯的事情，比扯鈴還扯，你看看，我剛剛講的這個，有沒有行政責任的問題？這個問題牽扯到行政院，搞不好都要糾正，要彈劾。數位部本來要去什麼地方？要去南門市場的中繼站，臺北市政府幫忙租地，蓋了一間美侖美奐的辦公室，花了1億8,000萬，結果數位部要那個地方，那麼好的地方，花1億8,000萬，四年就拆掉，這有沒有浪費民脂民膏？ |
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朱主計長澤民：這個中繼市場，如果我沒記錯，是臺北市政府的。 |
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張委員啓楷：是臺北市政府蓋的，但是是國家的土地啊。我先告訴你，你做這個決策，蓋好四年就拆掉，已經很離譜了，我相信一般人民看了都心疼，更離譜的是數位部，大家都看到房子被拆掉了，這個本來可以繼續用的，南門市場搬出去之後，臺北市政府認為東門市場要用，結果數位部說他們要在這個地方蓋大樓，現在說不要，比扯鈴還扯。 |
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朱主計長澤民：我所瞭解的是，唐部長跟我講過，給他什麼地方的房子他就去住，國有財產署給他什麼地方，他就去住，他沒有說要或不要，他有跟我講，而是國有財產署給他什麼地方，他就去住。現在是國有財產署拿不出來。 |
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張委員啓楷：所以他還是可能去，是不是？ |
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朱主計長澤民：沒有說不准去，那個地方…… |
| gazette.blocks[66][0] |
張委員啓楷：他現在說沒有要去，你們連要讓他去的地方都找出來了。 |
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朱主計長澤民：那個地方將來又要做其他的用途，他去了以後又要再搬，所以會增加更多的裝潢費。詳細的細節，我不知道。 |
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張委員啓楷：主計長，現在有兩個問題，第一個，為什麼一間耗資一億八的房子蓋好四年就要拆掉？對得起人民嗎？這是第一點。第二個，為了數位部跟NCC要去，那邊已經拆了，你去那邊看，已經夷為平地了，已經拆了，他現在說不去！ |
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朱主計長澤民：我剛才講，那個房子是臺北市政府的。 |
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張委員啓楷：對啊，臺北市政府的錢也是人民的錢，是人民的納稅錢。 |
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朱主計長澤民：我們尊重地方自治，唐部長是跟我講，政府要他去哪裡，他就去哪裡。 |
| gazette.blocks[72][0] |
張委員啓楷：主計長，我先請教你，我們從人民的角度去看，第一個，一億八不應該花下去蓋好四年就拆掉，這是第一個。第二個，你站在主計長的立場，幫人民看緊荷包，你收他的租金，對不對？他現在不去，房子已經拆了，你的租金也沒有了，臺北市政府本來要給你錢，也沒有了，對你是損失，對我們國家也是損失。那我要問，那個租金沒有了，那個錢要找誰要？這件事情本來很好解決，南門市場搬出去以後，東門市場要那個地方，你現在拆了，租金也不要。 |
| gazette.blocks[73][0] |
朱主計長澤民：可能要問國有財產署，我不能夠因為有某一個步驟，就全盤…… |
| gazette.blocks[74][0] |
張委員啓楷：主計長，你平常是很有擔當的人，你今天回答，一下子說是數位部的事情，一下子說是國有財產署的事情。你是有擔當的人。 |
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朱主計長澤民：我只管錢有沒有適當…… |
| gazette.blocks[76][0] |
張委員啓楷：你是我優秀的嘉中學長，你評價是高的，你為什麼今天都推給別的單位？ |
| gazette.blocks[77][0] |
主席：張委員，我看這樣子，第一個，主計總處提供…… |
| gazette.blocks[78][0] |
張委員啓楷：我做個ending，今天審計長剛好在，有風骨的審計長，這個案子查清楚，好不好？這個案子送去監察院，不只是糾正案，搞不好有好幾個人要被彈劾。審計長，你可以很清楚地表達這個案子會查清楚嗎？除了我剛才說的租金以外。 |
| gazette.blocks[79][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：委員關心，就是我們的事情，我們會就這個案子來處理。 |
| gazette.blocks[80][0] |
張委員啓楷：好。主計長、審計長，當著這麼多優秀的主計人員跟審計人員的面，我一開始都放了那麼多令人懷念的畫面，這段時間主計人員和審計人員那麼辛苦，對國家有貢獻嘛，要看緊人民的荷包。你大部分的地方有守住了，可是為什麼數位發展部這樣？一個辦公室要怎麼租，行政院的要點是清清楚楚的，342個人可以租多大的辦公室，每一個人的空間多大，這都是有要點規範的。我們回歸法律面，幫人民看緊荷包。 |
| gazette.blocks[81][0] |
朱主計長澤民：主計總處有權力去調的，我們都會去調。 |
| gazette.blocks[82][0] |
張委員啓楷：好，你去調。 |
| gazette.blocks[83][0] |
主席：一個禮拜內提供給委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[84][0] |
張委員啓楷：早點調好，早點拿給我。學長，早點調好，早日拿給我。 |
| gazette.blocks[85][0] |
朱主計長澤民：三個都是嘉中的啦。 |
| gazette.blocks[86][0] |
張委員啓楷：好。謝謝。希望我們都是嘉中之光，幫人民看緊荷包。謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[87][0] |
主席：謝謝張委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[87][1] |
接著請蔡易餘委員。蔡易餘、蔡易餘、蔡易餘不在。 |
| gazette.blocks[87][2] |
請鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
128 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-1-20-3 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
羅明才 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
林德福 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
吳秉叡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
郭國文 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
賴惠員 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
李彥秀 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
黃珊珊 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
顏寬恒 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
李坤城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
陳玉珍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
王世堅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
謝衣鳯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
張啓楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
羅智強 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
33 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-03-13 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1131301 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1131301_00003 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
邀請行政院主計總處朱主計長澤民、審計部陳審計長瑞敏率所屬單位主管列席業務報告，並備質
詢 |
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主席、主席、主席、主席、主席、主席、主席、主席、主席、主席、主席、 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
26.384 |
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50.789 |
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資深的審計人員跟主計人員要跟你們致敬你們為人民勘緊的荷包對國家貢獻是很大的啓楷今天要先給大家看一個畫面這個委員我相信很多資深的主計跟審計人員印象應該很深刻這是30年前同樣在這個地方財政委員會那陣的審計一定有跟蘇政平 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
53.783 |
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74.215 |
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立法委員王建宣當過財政部長的王建宣他質詢蘇政平他這樣說他說有部分的機關以遠超過市價的價格去承租辦公室浪費了民脂民膏他整個審計中有風骨的蘇政平一講 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
75.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
97.528 |
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他已經開始注意這問題了：已經把最近幾年：高價成豬的單位列為清查重點王健先阿安盟：說你這老骨看能處理好誰：孫生平怎麼說：孫生平說這事我半年做不好我就切腹自殺媒體的評價是說：是一個有風骨的審計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
101.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
127.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
審計長很期待今天我執行的主計長叫審計長一樣是有風骨的好不好我們肯定主計人員跟審計人員的貢獻所以我今天把大家懷念的這個畫面調出來給大家看了可是呢我們來看下一張數位發展部我先問一件事情他為什麼一定要在市中心他租金為什麼一年半要花掉7000萬更離譜的 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
130.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
159.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
他為什麼要用掉裝潢費就三千萬朱啓定、主計長你當初為什麼批准這筆預算那個我們是那個朱軍是一個整筆他他到底要要在發在多少上面那個是我不能夠說因為他有去找國有財產署希望國有財產署幫忙他找結果都沒有適當的方式 朱啓定不好意思我打岔你的話你剛才說他一定要在市中心 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
160.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
184.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
大家看一下唐鳳怎麼說我在大上班我在大都沒關係數位服務本來為什麼一定要在市中心阿要在淡房區阿他說直接拿這個筆點下去就可以批改阿指紋上去就可以簽公文阿他就不跟你講我在哪裡上班都不是很重要欸主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
188.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
213.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
主計長行政院對於所有的部會所有的機關在外面出辦公室是有要點有明確規範的他現在兩個部門他在新光大樓354人對不對才354個人喔他為什麼一定要在市中心為什麼354個人要用到一年半用到七千萬這不是民主民高嗎跟大家委員報告一下他們是 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
218.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
240.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
他這個是過渡時期：他未來是行政院的曾經在今年1月的時候：朱主計長你故意人喔我是請問一下你能不能從今天回去檢討這筆錢不要再編了我再問你一個重要的事情好不好他為什麼用掉3000萬的裝潢費用今天最新的新聞立法院院長韓國瑜把總務處長換掉了為什麼一間立法院的裝潢費用30萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
249.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
264.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
數位部一間辦公室用掉三千萬的裝潢而且還是半個而已啊他有兩個地方對不對他一個清光大樓用掉三千萬差不多跟我們一百一十五個立法委員的裝潢費用差不多主計長我們兩個找時間把我審計中我們看一空間八角是不是第二個這個有沒有責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
277.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
289.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
這樣好不好 把他當初 招標、絕標、公文、契約一個禮拜送到本席辦公室 這個是可能要跟數位發展不一樣 因為我這邊不能調他的我這邊不能調我沒有那個權利 第一個 當初主計單位裡面是誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
306.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
327.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
把這個批准的7千萬這是一個責任對不對?誰把這個3千萬給他了?主計處都沒有責任?沒有責任嗎?對,他有他們的主計人員,他有他們的業務選擇那不是你管欸,你派到主計,你是一條鞭欸來來,抱歉抱歉,我今天時間我請問什麼選舉對不起 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
330.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
347.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
你應該是有豐古的審計長啦老蔣你這段時間我們看你的結算報告都老蔣寫得不錯可以嗎?審計部可以這樣發錢嗎?我們今年會查今年會查今年會查齁然後 主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
348.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
362.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
你請你的在世衛部的主計人員把他的當初這個裝潢費用怎麼結標的、怎麼招標的公文一頁來上來幫我審。可以的話我們三個人一起去世衛部來看他開箱。世衛部是空經過的是不是?為什麼要用3000萬的這個裝修費用? |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
364.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
376.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
可以請他們說明但是去調查他們的那個是不是要立法院我詳細前線不曉得本席要求還不行嗎?你要什麼程序?立委的前線不能調這個資料嗎?朱先生 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
385.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
412.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
本席要這個資料過分嗎政府資訊公開是應該的這個也沒有弊端的話何懼之有看多久提供招標資訊這些都很公開啊主計長我去執行所有的單位你第一次回到說你沒有前線不能把這個資料送來你是第一個欸我沒有時候不能送來因為我不是這不是立委明定的前線嗎而且幫人民勘檢荷包不是只有我 是你 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
413.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
416.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那麼多的審計人員、主計人員在這裡?我當然會去跟數位部要可是我對著你嘛你關錢的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
427.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
449.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我不能...你叫你的主計人員...欸!市委部有你的審計人員在嗎?有你的主計人員在嗎?當然有啊!有啊!你去拿啊!我...我...這個能不能這樣子...我必須...你不知道啊!以前所有的立法委員跟你說要跟你拿資料可能有弊端可能浪費的你都這樣回答嗎?不是這樣子啦就是說... |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
450.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
475.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
委員如果有必要的話可以請求他們提供好我就是有必要不是請求他們請求你這個主計長你們有派人在這個一條邊嘛齁有在數位發展部裡頭嘛那你們主計的人如果當初應該也會提出相關意見如果沒有是不是有相關責任這也是我們張委員下去要追究的所以你們如果覺得沒有問題就提供資料這沒什麼政府資訊公開又是沒有我要去看法律的程序到底怎麼走謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
477.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
495.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
朱國林你到底有什麼危難的地方?你現在你現在完全違反整立法院的職權要跟你要東西你怎麼可以這樣打?你這不是藐視國會嗎?不是藐視我一個立法院喔?是不是藐視國會?哪位同仁可以跟主席長講? |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
502.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
516.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
可以請那個數位說明但是調帳是不可以的來說明招標不是公開的嗎你這個招標的公開文件為什麼不行啊總統他他要上去你說他的招標的過程怎麼拿多少錢招標、絕標 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
525.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
527.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
這個應該都有公開資訊阿齁你們統整一下送給張委員阿政府的工廠勒 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
542.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
564.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
是跟專委員說明一下喔因為依照我們預算法的部分我們是針對他的預算執行情形可以來請他這個地方來提供這個說明預算執行情形至於委員你提到的是涉及到合約的這個部分那合約的部分交由數位部他來提供說明你如果叫他來要說明什麼當然是合約書招標決標的問題他要說什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
568.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
593.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
主計處就請他跟你講什麼當然是帶這兩個最關鍵的文件啊你們就請社會發展部的主計單位提供給你們總這個總處這裡總處再送來立法院就好了嗎然後你就叫他把我剛講的這個東西招標絕標的合約書招標絕標的合約書可以不可以那個那個跟他們拿來這個我必須祝賀定武祝賀定武接吾山必拚那個審計長審計長接吾山必拚 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
597.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
620.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
這個有秘密嗎?這招標、結標阿大概在那個網站上阿對阿有一個網站上可能網站都已經有了你都還不給我請主計總處整理出來就好了好不好?好啦主計長一個禮拜啦一禮拜我把網站上的資料拿不只網站啦網站看了以後裡面還有東西啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
622.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
646.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
你如果給我東西不夠齊全我們再來一起討論好不好好一個禮拜內一個禮拜內把你認為可以給我的資料我剛要求的公開招標的文件結標的文件還有合約書上個案好不好另外問一個也是很扯的事情比扯零還扯的看看勒剛講的這個有沒有行政責任的問題這是不是牽扯到行政院搞不好都要糾正要談的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
649.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
666.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
市委部本來要去什麼地方?要去南門市場的中繼站。代表省政府幫你租地。幫你租地。蓋了一個大家看那個畫面,美輪美奐。有八千萬的錢。結果你叫市委部要那個地方? |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
668.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
690.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那麼好的地方還被懲罰四年就把它拆掉這有沒有讓慧敏指名高這個中具市長如果我沒記錯是臺北市政府的他去的啊你的土地啊那個國家的土地啊你做這個決策四年拆掉已經很離譜了我相信一般人民看了都心疼啦更離譜的你社會不公上 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
692.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
711.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
﹗ |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
713.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
727.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我所了解的是那個唐部長跟我講過他給他什麼地方的房子他就去住所以國有財產署給他什麼地方就去住現在因為他沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
729.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
742.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
他沒有說是要或不要他有跟我講是國有財產署給他什麼地方房子他就去住所以他還是可能要去是不是沒有說不准去那一個地方將來又要做其他的一個用途他去了又要再搬 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
750.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
765.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
登加更多的裝潢會 為什麼一個1億8的房子4年要拆掉對得起人民嗎這是第一個點第二個為了你數位部跟NCC要去已經拆了 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
766.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
794.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
你去那邊已經一圍平地了喔已經拆了你現在說不想去對我就跟他講那個房子是臺北市政府的對啊臺北市政府也是人民的錢啊人民納稅錢臺北市政府我們尊重那個地方自治堂部長是跟我講政府要他去哪裡他就去哪裡朱國立我先請教你啦我們從人民的角度去看第一個一億八不應該花下去四年被拆掉這是第一個第二你站在主計長的 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
796.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
813.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
幫人民勘請荷包你是收的租金欸對不對你現在要蓋不蓋 已經跳映了啦 你租金也沒有這樣每次政府本來要給你錢 你也沒有這樣你不是對你也是損失啊 對我們國家也是損失啊你為什麼那個租金 那我要問啊 那個租金沒有那個錢要找誰要 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
816.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
821.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
你平常是很有擔當的人,你今天在回答事情都是一些社會部的事情你是有擔當的人的,你是我優秀的家中學長,你評價是高的,你現在都收到百位了 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
844.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
872.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
那個章委員齁我看這樣子齁第一個這個主計總處這邊麻煩提供我們做個ending好不好你幫等一下等一下做個Ending今天審計長剛好在有風骨的審計長這個案子跟剛剛一樣查清楚好不好這個幾次台我講這個案上去上去檢查你不只是糾正案我講搞不好有好幾個人要被彈劾那個主計長你可以很清楚的表達這個案子你會查清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
873.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
888.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
審計長審計長審計長審計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
889.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
893.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
對國家有貢言嗎?看見人民而報嗎?你大部分的地方有守住了可是為什麼一個數位發展部 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
908.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
929.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
你一個辦公室你要怎麼租 要點是清清楚楚的三萬四十二個人可以租大大辦公室每一個人空間多大 這都是有要點的喔 有法規法律面幫人民看緊荷包主計總是有權利去調整我們都會去調整學長 比較早調好 稍後拿給我 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
934.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
947.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
希望我們都是交通之光幫人民看緊荷包謝謝張委員接著我們請蔡宜宜委員蔡宜宜不在請我們鄭天才鄭委員 |