| IVOD_ID |
149805 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149805 |
| 日期 |
2024-03-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-19-3 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-03-13T11:57:29+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-03-13T12:04:39+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:07:10 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7ed54bd69a3b6903e830934b8f36306733e530803e447454f8ba9b0039caa7a6a2be613e28a423535ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
黃國昌 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:57:29 - 12:04:39 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-03-13T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請經濟部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【3月11日、13日及14日三天一次會】） |
| gazette.lineno |
889 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
黃委員國昌：（11時57分）謝謝主席，麻煩有請經濟部部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：來，請王部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
王部長美花：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
黃委員國昌：部長好。其實國家發展綠能我們都很支持，如果說在特定的任務下面，從我們經濟部有實質控制的公司去成立子公司，協助推動國家的政策，這個方向我其實公開說過很多次，我是支持的。但在國營事業用這些人的時候有一個重點，那個重點是用人唯才，我們用專業的、可以做事的，而不是拿國營事業來進行政治酬庸，這樣子的觀念部長你認同吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
王部長美花：我贊成。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
黃委員國昌：你認同嘛！好，那我就看不懂，臺鹽綠能這家公司成立了以後，本來百分之百是臺鹽的吧？接下來用人實際上面的狀況，包括了第一任的董事長陳啟昱，您在上一屆國會說相關的案件你們已經移給檢調了嘛？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
王部長美花：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
黃委員國昌：接下來任用了吳容輝，嘉義縣的前副縣長，這個到底是用人唯才還是在酬庸？我相信社會有一把尺，但我現在更關心的是什麼？我更關心的事情是我們為了推動公共政策、為了執行國家的政策，好不容易成立了一家公司，有沒有被特定的派系或是權貴把持的現象？ |
| gazette.blocks[7][1] |
我接下來show這張圖給部長看，去年部長在回答台灣民眾黨陳琬惠委員質詢的時候，您說到您幫現任臺鹽的總經理吳博鑫澄清，說他沒有在力暘下面任職過，相關的新聞跟新聞稿我全部都看過，你說的沒有錯，但大家在質疑的是什麼？大家在質疑的是他是憑什麼對這個業務既不懂也不熟，可以做到臺鹽綠能的總經理？大家找了半天，發現原來他是英系的力暘集團，包括了小古古盛煇、陳文宏他們所把持集團的下包商，現在做到了臺鹽綠能的總經理。結果他當總經理以後，總經理裡面的特助任用的是誰啊？任用的就是陳文宏的兄弟陳文龍，他們陳家力暘集團已經正式入駐了臺鹽綠能啊！這件事情部長您清楚嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
王部長美花：過往委員要我們去查相關臺鹽綠能的民股的時候，有做一些的調查。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
黃委員國昌：那這樣的狀況你瞭解了嗎？你覺得應該要繼續容忍下去嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
王部長美花：委員，這一張圖提到吳國卿跟可威…… |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
黃委員國昌：我們先不講吳國卿的部分啦！剛剛我還沒有提到吳國卿，現在我要跟你focus是力暘集團的小古跟陳文宏還有吳博鑫的關係，我還沒有提到吳國卿，力暘集團的小古、陳文宏、吳博鑫，結果吳博鑫進去了以後，總經理帶的是誰？帶著的是陳文宏的兄弟，我只請教你說這樣的狀況你瞭解不瞭解？ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
王部長美花：我就是看到委員這個圖，因為這個的可威跟那個可威不一樣，委員，這兩個是不同的可威。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
黃委員國昌：我知道啦！我知道！我現在就沒有提到吳國卿嘛！我從頭到尾剛剛有跟你提到吳國卿三個字嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
王部長美花：至於委員在講之前相關股東的部分，委員也知道，我們已經送檢調了解狀況了。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
黃委員國昌：本席剛才也說了嘛！你們把陳啟昱的部分送檢調調查，這些本席都OK啦！現在只是希望你針對問題回答。本席現在問最具體的一件事情，你知不知道臺鹽綠能去年虧損多少錢？ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
王部長美花：是有虧損。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
黃委員國昌：你知不知道虧損多少錢？ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
王部長美花：他們虧損是因為之前的工程費用還沒有拿到，他們現正…… |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
黃委員國昌：我們一樣、一樣地來。您知不知道他們虧損多少錢？ |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
王部長美花：因為它是臺鹽的子公司，所以我不知道。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
黃委員國昌：沒有關係啦！本席會提問，一定是把資料找好了，到今年2月底，它的股東權益只剩下一億六千多萬元，本來是增資到三億多元，為什麼前兩天發布重訊？因為虧損已經達到實收資本額的二分之一。為什麼虧損會達到實收資本額的二分之一？因為去年一年就虧損2.7億元，那時候的總經理是誰？就是不願意用專業的人，搞權貴、派系、酬庸，還搞出力暘集團的下下包商，也就是吳博鑫，所以虧了2.7億元。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][1] |
再請教部長，您不熟悉沒有關係，本席接受旁邊的國營事業司司長可以代答。你知不知道去年一年走了多少人？請司長回答，因為部長說他不熟悉，而且問部長這麼細的問題，可能對部長也不公平。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
胡司長文中：應該是走了六十幾位。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
黃委員國昌：編制是多少人？ |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
胡司長文中：編制大概是一百多位。不過他們有些是換人，因為他們承包台泥嘉新的案子以後，暫時還沒有新的案子進來，所以他們…… |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
黃委員國昌：關於台泥嘉新的案子，本席已經有所掌握，呆帳提列多少？人家為什麼不付錢？這些等下次質詢的時候，本席會繼續問，因為主席站起來了，本席要尊重主席的裁示。請部長拜託司長回去之後幫忙了解，希望我們下次詢答時，回答的內容可以更實質一點，這樣可以嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
王部長美花：不過我真的要和委員說，吳國卿和委員說的可威完全無關，是另外一個可威，這樣對他太不公平了，這完全是錯誤的資訊。 |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
黃委員國昌：本席已經告訴你，我們還沒有提到吳國卿這個人。 |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
王部長美花：我是要告訴委員，你可能要先回去釐清一下。 |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
黃委員國昌：沒有關係啦！我們繼續針對實質問題答詢的時候再討論，麻煩部長先回去準備好，這樣可以嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
王部長美花：好，可以。 |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
主席：謝謝黃國昌委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[31][1] |
接下來請吳春城委員發言。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
168 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-1-19-3 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
邱議瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
林岱樺 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
謝衣鳯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
張啓楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
陳亭妃 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
鄭正鈐 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
張嘉郡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
邱志偉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
陳超明 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
賴瑞隆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
蔡易餘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
黃珊珊 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
吳春城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
陳冠廷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
葉元之 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
劉建國 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
115 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-03-13 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1131201 |
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| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
邀請經濟部部長報告業務概況，並備質詢 |
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1131201_00003 |
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委員發言謝謝主席麻煩有請經濟部部長來請問部長好 委員好 |
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部長好其實國家發展綠能我們都很支持那如果說在特定的任務下面從我們經濟部有實質控制的公司去成立一支公司協助推動國家的政策這個方向我其實公開說過很多次我是支持的但在國營事業用這些人的時候有一個重點那個重點是用人為財我們用專業的可以做事的 |
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而不是拿國營事業來進行政治酬庸。這樣子的觀念,部長你認同吧?我贊成,是。你認同吧?是。好。但我就看不懂,台研立了這家公司成立了以後本來百分之百是台研的吧?接下來用人實際上面的狀況包括了第一任的董事長陳啟運 |
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您在上一屆國會的說相關的案件你們已經已給剪掉了是到接下來任用了吳永輝、嘉義縣的前副縣長那這個到底是用人為財還是在醜用我相信社會有一把尺但我現在更關心的是什麼我更關心的事情是我們為了推動公共政策 |
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為執行國家的政策好不容易成立了一家公司有沒有被特定的派系或是權貴把持的現象我接下來秀這張圖給部長看 |
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去年部長在回答臺灣民眾黨陳婉蕙委員的質詢的時候您說到您幫現任臺研的總經理吳博新你幫他說我幫他澄清說他沒有在立洋下面任職過我相關的新聞跟新聞稿我全部都看過你說的沒有錯但大家在質疑的是什麼大家在質疑的是他是憑什麼憑什麼對這個業務 |
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這不懂：也不熟：可以做到台研綠能的總經理大家找了半天：原來發現他是我們綠洋集團英企的綠洋集團包括了小谷、谷聖輝包括了陳文宏他們所把持集團的下包商現在做到了台研綠能的總經理 |
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197.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
結果他當總經理以後啊總經理裡面的特助任用的是誰啊任用的就是陳文宏的兄弟啊陳文榮啊他的陳家麗陽集團的啊已經正式入駐了台言綠能啊這件事情部長您清楚嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
200.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
205.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
那這樣的狀況您了解了嗎?您覺得應該要繼續容忍下去嗎?我們先不講吳國欽的部分啦剛剛我還沒有提到吳國欽現在我要跟你focus |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
225.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
243.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
是立洋集團的小谷跟陳文宏還有吳國興的關係我還沒有提到吳國興立洋集團的小谷陳文宏吳國興結果吳國興進去了以後總經理是帶的是誰帶的是陳文宏的兄弟我只請教你說這樣的狀況您了解不了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
244.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
251.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
因為我就是看到委員這個圖因為這個的可危跟那個可危不一樣委員這兩個是不同的可危我知道我現在就沒有提到吳國欽嘛我從頭到尾剛好跟你提到吳國欽三個字嘛至於委員在講之前的這個相關的這個股東的部分那委員也知道我們也送檢調來瞭解這個狀況了 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
267.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
278.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我剛也說了嘛你把陳秦日壽剪掉這個我都OK啦但我只希望你針對問題回答我現在最具體的一件事情你知不知道台研綠能去年虧了多少錢是有虧損你知不知道虧了多少錢因為他的虧損是因為他的工程費還沒有拿到這個我們一樣一樣來嘛你知不知道他虧了多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
293.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
322.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
因為他是下面的下面沒有關係啦我會問問題的話我資料一定都找好了到今年2月底到今年2月底他的股東權益只剩下1億6千多萬本來是3億多嘛真知道3億多嘛所以為什麼前兩天發重訊虧損已經達到10收資本額的二分之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
324.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
344.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
為什麼虧損會達到10週資本額的二分之一因為去年一年虧了2.7億那時候的總經理是誰就是不願用專業的人搞權貴派系酬庸搞出來立洋集團的下下包商吳柏鑫 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
345.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
346.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
應該是走了將近有60幾位 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
368.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
391.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
編制了多少人?編制大概一百多位,不過他就有些壞,因為他的工程在承包完那個台尼嘉慶的案子以後,暫時還沒有新的案子進來。台尼嘉慶的案子齁,我已經都掌握。呆帳提列多少?人家為什麼不付錢?我們下次質詢的時候,我會繼續問。因為主席站起來啊,我要尊重主席的才智。請部長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
392.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
415.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
拜託市長回去幫忙了解以後我們下一次在詢答的時候內容可以更實質一點這樣可以嗎不過我真的要跟委員講吳國欽跟委員講的那個可危完全沒關是另外一個可危這個完全對他太不公平了我就跟你說我還沒有提到吳國欽這個人嘛我是要跟委員說委員你可能要先回去澄清一下沒有關係啦我們繼續講繼續針對實質的問題回答的時候再麻煩部長先回去準備好 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
421.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
425.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
這樣可以嗎?好,謝謝黃國昌委員 |