| IVOD_ID |
149765 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149765 |
| 日期 |
2024-03-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-19-3 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-03-13T10:28:01+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-03-13T10:37:21+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:09:20 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7ed54bd69a3b690359e446cc9cc215c933e530803e447454f8ba9b0039caa7a6d6e9e66fec18c7355ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:28:01 - 10:37:21 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-03-13T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請經濟部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【3月11日、13日及14日三天一次會】） |
| gazette.lineno |
417 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：（10時28分）主席，有請部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席（陳委員亭妃代）：請部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：部長好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
王部長美花：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：水利法第七十八條河川區域內，沒有提到不得私有，沒有規定土地不得私有；第七十八條之一一樣沒有規定不得私有；水利法第七十八條之二也沒有規定不得私有；水利法第八十二條對於「水道治理計畫線或用地範圍線內之土地」，也沒有規定不得私有；水利法只有第八十三條有規定，「尋常洪水位行水區域之土地，……，其原為公有者，不得移轉為私有」，已為私有者可以徵收，只有水利法第八十三條規定，尋常洪水位不得私有，這個讓部長瞭解一下。最靠近河流的就是水利法第八十三條的尋常洪水位行水區域，然後未來要蓋堤防的地方要用水利法第八十二條的治理線及用地範圍線，然後最外面的就是河川區域線。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][1] |
土地法第十四條第一項第三款，過去一直到現在，水利法第八十二條跟第七十八條之二，都是依據土地法第十四條第一項的第三款。土地法第十四條第一項的第三款對於「可通運之水道」，戴秀雄教授認為引用這個是錯誤的，因為臺灣並沒有「可通運之水道」。「可通運之水道」要能夠讓輪船可以通運，但臺灣沒有。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][2] |
原住民族基本法第二十條規定，政府承認原住民族土地的權利，因為這條原基法的條文，內政部也就是土地法的主管機關，對土地法第十四條第一項各款規定，不得私有的劃定原則做了修正，在105年12月做了修正。土地法第十四條第一項各款規定不得私有土地，「但原住民申請經公產管理機關同意配合提供增、劃編原住民保留地者」可以，但是到目前為止，水利署都不願意，尤其是「已奉核定增、劃編為原住民保留地者」。讓部長瞭解增、劃編原住民保留地的核定者是誰，是行政院核定喔！行政院已經核定了，水利署依然不同意；然後「已設定耕作權、地上權或農育權之原住民保留地者」，會設定耕作權、地上權的也就是經過行政院核定的，核定之後，這塊土地核定為原住民保留地，然後才設定耕作權、地上權。都已經設定耕作權、地上權了水利署到現在都還是不願意，所以這個部分，這裡面已經「應排除劃入不得私有土地範圍」，這不是我規定的而是內政部，針對土地法第十四條所定的劃定原則，所以這個要請部長作決定，因為部長是學法律的，水利署不是學法律的，他們只考慮到工程啦！他們考量的是工程，想替人民省錢啦！為什麼呢？這個106年8月1號水利署的公文，我們看下面的最後那兩句話「依『未來治理所需之範圍』認定，並依原基法規定辦理」。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][3] |
我們就看到這條線，現在的狀況，治理線有的地方還沒有蓋堤防，所以水利署那張公文是說依未來治理所需之範圍，這個我們還可以稍微容忍一下，我跟署長講過了。但是堤防已經蓋好了，到河川區域線中間的，依法都應該增、劃編為原住民保留地，但是水利署我也不知道什麼原因，也講不出個所以然，堤防已經蓋很久了，甚至已經有耕作權了，行政院已經核定為增、劃編保留地了，部長可以嗎？依法行政啊！就依內政部，它是主管機關，可以嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
王部長美花：土地法是一般法，委員也知道相關水利法的部分有更細膩的規定，像委員講的第七十八條、第八十二條、第八十三條，哪一些有沒有什麼例外的可行性，我再跟水利署討論一下。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，很明確的，只有水利法第八十三條，法律明定不得私有，我們絕對遵守法律，第七十八條、第八十二條都沒有說不得私有，所以戴秀雄教授或者是內政部基於土地主管機關、土地法主管機關也都認為是這樣，所以這個部分請部長…… |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
王部長美花：我再跟他們詳細討論。 |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，謝謝。最後也讓部長瞭解一下這個堤防都已經蓋好了，但它還是一樣，這個部分有好多例子，所以這個部分給部長做參考，包括好幾個案例都是這樣。 |
| gazette.blocks[8][1] |
最後因為時間的關係，石油管理法第三十六條特別規定偏遠地區、原住民族地區及離島地區這些桶裝瓦斯的補貼，上次桶裝瓦斯的補貼已經有3、4年沒有調高了，所以這個部分也請經濟部還有能源署調高，可以嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
游署長振偉：跟委員報告，我們有根據整個成本的情況，今年會做檢討。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
主席：現在請鄭正鈐委員質詢，謝謝。等張嘉郡委員詢答完，休息10分鐘。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
168 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-1-19-3 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
邱議瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
林岱樺 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
謝衣鳯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
張啓楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
陳亭妃 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
鄭正鈐 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
張嘉郡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
邱志偉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
陳超明 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
賴瑞隆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
蔡易餘 |
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黃珊珊 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
洪孟楷 |
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黃國昌 |
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吳春城 |
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陳冠廷 |
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王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
葉元之 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
劉建國 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
115 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-03-13 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1131201 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
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立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
邀請經濟部部長報告業務概況，並備質詢 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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委員請部長請部長好部長好水利法第78條河川區域河川區域內只有沒有提到不得私有土地不得私沒有規定78條之一一樣沒有規定說不得私有 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
43.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
70.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
水利法第78條之二也沒有規定說不得私有水利法第82條對於水道治理計劃線或者是用地範圍線的土地也沒有規定不得私有水利法只有第83條有規定尋常洪水位行水7億之土地 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
73.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
94.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
其原為公有者：不得移轉為私有：以私有者：可以徵收這個是只有水利法第83條規定循床洪水不得私有這個讓部長瞭解一下河流最靠近河流的 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
95.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
123.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
就是水利法第83條尋常洪水位、行水區然後為了要蓋堤防的地方叫水利法第82條治理縣用地方為縣然後最外面的就是河川七一縣土地法第14條第三款第14條的第一項的第三款 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
125.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
154.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
過去一直到現在經濟部水利署都以這個第三款作為第78條這個看一下水利法82條跟78條之二都是用這個土地法第14條的第一項的第三款 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
156.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
179.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
好土地法第14條的第一項第三款可通用之水道戴秀雄教授認為這樣引用這個是錯誤的因為臺灣並沒有可通用之水道可通用水道要那個滑船啊輪船啊不是滑船啊要那個輪船可以的沒有臺灣沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
182.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
209.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
好,原住民族基本法第20條規定政府承認原住民族土地的權利所以因為這條原基法條文內政部內政部主管機關土地法的主管機關對第14條土地法第14條第一項各款規定不得私有的話定言者他做了修正105年12月做了修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
211.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
236.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
土地法第14條第一項各款規定不得私有土地但原住民申請經工廠管理機關同意配合提供增化邊緣住民保留地者可以所以這個部分但是到目前為止這個水利署都不願意都不願意好 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
237.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
264.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
尤其是以奉合定增化邊沿住林堡的立者讓部長瞭解哈增化邊沿住林堡的立的合定是誰合定的?是行政院合定哦行政院已經合定了水利署依然不同意依然不同意然後呢以設定耕作前、地上前或農業前之沿住林堡的立者 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
266.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
290.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
會設定耕作權、地上錢也就是經過行政院核定核定之後這塊土地核定為原住民保留地然後才設定耕作權、地上錢都已經設定耕作權、地上錢了都水利署到現在都還是不願意所以這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
291.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
315.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
這裏面已經因排除劃入不得失業土地範圍這不是我規定的是內政部針對土地法14條所定的劃定原則所以部長這個要請你這個要做決定因為部長是學法律的 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
317.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
343.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
水利署不是寫法律的,他們只考量到工程啊。他們考量到的是工程啊。想替人民省錢啊。為什麼呢?他特別,這個106年8月1號水利署的公文啊。我們看最後下面的兩句話。一,未來治理首席之範圍來認定。 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
347.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
370.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
以未來治理首席之範圍來認定,依原紀律法規定辦理。這個,我們就看到這條線。現在的狀況,治理線,有的地方還沒有蓋提防,所以這個水利署那張公文是說以未來治理的需要的範圍。 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
373.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
398.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
這個我們還可以稍微容忍一下我跟署長講過但是呢提防已經蓋好了提防已經蓋好了到河川七一線這中間的依法都應該要增加邊緣原住民保留地但是水利署我也不知道什麼原因 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
401.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
427.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
也講不出所依然提防已經蓋很久了提防都蓋很久了所以這個部分甚至已經有耕作權了行政已經核定為政話邊保留地了部長可以嗎依法行政就依內政部 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
428.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
429.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
只有水利法83條 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
457.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
458.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
另外最後這個我就要看 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
488.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
512.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
也讓部長瞭解看一下這個提防都已經蓋好了這個提防提防都已經蓋好了它還是一樣所以這個部分好多例子所以這個部分只給部長做參考包括好幾個案例都是這樣最後時間的關係石油管理法36條 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
515.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
524.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
特別規定偏遠地區、原住民族地區及離島地區的相關統裝瓦斯補貼上次的統裝瓦斯補貼大概已經有3、4年沒有調高了所以這個部分也請 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
541.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
541.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我們現在請 |