| IVOD_ID |
149644 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149644 |
| 日期 |
2024-03-11 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-23-3 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-03-11T10:10:41+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-03-11T10:20:03+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:09:22 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9ce5e25ef4cf4300e37dbb79de07f4c37e24220554cbe99af8ba9b0039caa7a6b14477705634b9fb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
林俊憲 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:10:41 - 10:20:03 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-03-11T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請國家通訊傳播委員會主任委員陳耀祥列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。
二、邀請國家通訊傳播委員會主任委員陳耀祥就「廣電事業申設換照審查程序暨執行狀況」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
| gazette.lineno |
571 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
林委員俊憲：（10時10分）謝謝主席。本席邀請NCC陳主委。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：好，陳主委。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
陳主任委員耀祥：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
林委員俊憲：主委好。詐騙實在是讓很多人民深惡痛絕，很多方面其實需要團隊合作，需要NCC，也需要數發部。這是前幾天發生的一個案件。你知道現在科技進步有AI的語音科技公司嘛？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
陳主任委員耀祥：當然，有。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
林委員俊憲：有個嫌犯就下單，他用5萬元客製化詐騙電話AI機器模組，這個AI機器模組可以自動打100萬通電話，根據民眾在電話裡面答復的內容，AI會自動把有興趣的民眾抓出來，然後再發簡訊去釣魚。有個民眾就因為這樣，誤以為可以投資股票賺錢，匯了2,700萬，可說是畢生積蓄都沒有了。面對未來新的科技，我們希望NCC能夠有相關的對策，尤其像這種AI電話詐騙。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][1] |
我給主委看一下，詐騙案件件數及金額節節升高，現在一年大概都有3萬5,000件以上，受害的金額也逐年升高，你看2022年70億，去年就突破80億了。你知道現在什麼詐騙案最多嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
陳主任委員耀祥：應該是網路的投資詐欺。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
林委員俊憲：第一個、投資詐欺，不一定在網路，網路就不是你管的了。 |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
陳主任委員耀祥：現在其實投資詐欺…… |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
林委員俊憲：第一個，現在詐騙案最多的就是投資詐欺案，占了快30%，連財訊的謝金河都自己自力救濟在財訊的內頁寫，他沒有用名義叫人家投資、買賣股票，沒有辦法！他已經投訴到只好自力救濟了，所以現在詐欺案比率最多的是騙投資，占了快30%。第二個，是分期付款，ATM可以幫你解除，大概19%；再來是網路購物大概12.6%，表列的是前十大的詐騙犯罪模式。主委知不知道是誰在從事詐騙？國家很可憐，都是一些年輕人。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
陳主任委員耀祥：現在很多……對，年輕人。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
林委員俊憲：我們來看一下，詐騙犯30歲以內，即18歲到30歲就占了44%，快要一半；如果是18到39歲，大概快要66%，即三分之二詐欺犯都是年輕人。現在年輕人最慘，很多年輕人都去從事詐騙賺錢比較快，看到人家買新車、走路都有風，大家都來學詐騙，相對的，你知道誰最容易受騙嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
陳主任委員耀祥：退休或是高齡族。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
林委員俊憲：你錯啦！現在受害者最多也是年輕人，因為重度使用網路、都在網路上，我們以前覺得老人笨笨的好騙，不是真的，年輕人也很好騙。現在受害者一樣也是集中在年輕人，被害人在40歲以內大概七成，即七成受害者是40歲以內年輕人，為什麼數發部很重要？為什麼NCC很重要？你看現在這種AI語音生成器可以自動打幾百萬通電話，然後可以根據你怎麼回答就知道你有沒有興趣。你聽幾秒、你聽很久、講很久，表示你有興趣，事後再用簡訊丟回去給你，像那天那個被害人就因為這樣，一次、兩次，總共匯了2,700萬。像這樣的詐騙案，未來因為科技的進步會越來越可怕，像這種AI語音電信詐騙，NCC有什麼辦法處理？ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
陳主任委員耀祥：這個也是要配合其他部會，大家一起處理，因為AI這個層面，比如生成式AI，現在犯罪集團用AI來詐欺，政府在防制過程則要用AI來防禦，這個部分需要國科會還有刑事警察局，大家一起共同來配合，當然最重要的還有數位部、金管會也要一起來處理這個問題。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
林委員俊憲：既然已經有這樣的案例發生了，我希望政府的腳步要快一點。 |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
陳主任委員耀祥：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
林委員俊憲：另外，OTT專法還有廣電三法什麼時候修好？ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
陳主任委員耀祥：我們現在在討論當中，因為OTT這個法律涉及到所謂網際網路的使用，這個部分跟國內的業者的確比較難處理。至於廣電三法目前在修改當中，未來要請委員多多支持。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
林委員俊憲：沒有，主委我跟你說，照理講，修這個法是你任內很重要的一個工作，很可惜！你看你自己寫的報告，你說今年年底、2024年12月才報行政院。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
陳主任委員耀祥：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
林委員俊憲：OTT部分，你寫2025年6月才要報行政院，我不知道你是怎麼估算的，以目前來看，你寫這個日期實在是有點不大負責任。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
陳主任委員耀祥：跟委員報告，最主要是因為OTT涉及到網路平臺業者的責任問題，而這個部分不是只有OTT TV，還包括整個平臺下面…… |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
林委員俊憲：OTT現在的市占率越來越高，你應該知道吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
陳主任委員耀祥：是，我知道。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
林委員俊憲：OTT現在的占有率大概是13%，跟中華電信的MOD幾乎一樣，所以任何的消費糾紛或者內容有什麼樣的狀況，我們根本沒有辦法管理…… |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
陳主任委員耀祥：所以消費者保護就是我們要立法的最重要…… |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
林委員俊憲：所以你要趕快立法啊！照你所講的，是明年底欸！2025年12月OTT專法才要送行政院！ |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
陳主任委員耀祥：跟委員報告，我們加快腳步啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
林委員俊憲：我不知道你怎麼排這個期程的，這應該是給下一屆的NCC委員或者主委來弄…… |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
陳主任委員耀祥：所以我們現在…… |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
林委員俊憲：你怎麼會訂這個日期，我不清楚啦，但這個法律確實是勢在必行，你看OTT現在越來越多，對不對？有線電視收看率一直下降。還有，現在民眾對於媒體接受的訊息信任度非常低，難怪瑞典有個專業機構在評估全世界的假訊息時，臺灣連續10年蟬聯世界第一名，受假訊息、境外假訊息的影響，臺灣是全世界最嚴重的國家，而且蟬聯10年第一名。大家都很清楚，大部分的假訊息來自中國，這部分我認為數發部和NCC要負最大的責任。就以NCC所主管的電視和廣播，根據臺灣事實查核中心的民調，認為經常性，甚至每天都有散播假消息的，有過半民眾，亦即有一半以上的民眾認為電視、廣播經常都是胡說八道，說得都是假的訊息，但網路更嚴重！臺灣好像活在一個什麼都是假的社會裡面，這樣人跟人之間，或是人跟政府之間，信賴度變得非常低，造成在國際上的評比那麼難看，連續10年都是最嚴重喔！ |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
陳主任委員耀祥：是啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
林委員俊憲：我們希望相關部會要趕快加油，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
陳主任委員耀祥：是，是，落實事實查證一直是我們努力的方向，謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
林委員俊憲：好，謝謝主委，謝謝主席。 |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
陳主任委員耀祥：好，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
主席：謝謝林俊憲委員的發言。 |
| gazette.blocks[37][1] |
下一位請許智傑委員發言。報告，許智傑委員發言完畢以後，休息10分鐘。休息10分鐘完畢以後，處理臨時提案。 |
| gazette.blocks[37][2] |
請許智傑委員發言。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
142 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-1-23-3 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
陳雪生 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
林國成 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
李昆澤 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
黃健豪 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
許智傑 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
林沛祥 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
翁曉玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
葉元之 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
邱若華 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
林俊憲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
傅崐萁 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
徐富癸 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
徐巧芯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
羅智強 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
蔡其昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
林德福 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
魯明哲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
鍾佳濱 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
陳俊宇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[21] |
陳培瑜 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[22] |
鄭正鈐 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[23] |
張啓楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[24] |
吳春城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[25] |
陳昭姿 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[26] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[27] |
麥玉珍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[28] |
游顥 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[29] |
王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[30] |
何欣純 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[31] |
廖先翔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[32] |
陳素月 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
1 |
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2024-03-11 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1131101 |
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1131101_00002 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
一、邀請國家通訊傳播委員會主任委員陳耀祥列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、邀請國家通訊
傳播委員會主任委員陳耀祥就「廣電事業申設換照審查程序暨執行狀況」進行專題報告，並備質
詢 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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謝謝主席,本席邀請我們NCC陳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
24.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
48.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
委員好委員好各位這個詐騙喔詐騙這個時代是讓很多人民生物痛絕那其實很多方面啦其實需要團隊合作啦也需要NCC也需要速發部啦這是前幾天發生的一個案例啦你知道現在科技的進步有那個AI的語音科技公司嘛當然有有個嫌犯啦他就下單啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
49.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
72.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
他用五萬元去客製化一個詐騙電話AI機器模組那這個AI機器模組他都可以自動打了一百萬通電話然後呢他根據民眾在電話裡面答覆的那個內容AI會自動把有興趣的民眾抓出來然後他再發簡訊去釣魚有個民眾就因為這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
76.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
98.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
他誤信以為可以投資股票賺錢匯了2700萬可以說是一畢生積蓄都沒有了所以面對未來的新的科技我們希望NCC能夠有相關的對策尤其像這種AI電話照片你知道現在照片案案件我給主委看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
100.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
125.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
詐騙案件節節升高啦回到上一頁就是詐騙的件數啦詐騙的金額啦現在一年啦大概都有三萬五千件以上啦那受害的金額啊也逐年升高啦對不對你看2022年七十億啊去年啊就會突破八十億了 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
127.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
151.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
知不知道現在什麼詐騙案啊?最多嗎?那個應該是網路的投資詐欺第一個投資詐欺啊投資他不一定在網路啦網路就不是你管而已現在其實投資詐欺第一個現在詐騙案最多的就投資詐欺案啦佔了快30%啦我看那個財訊連謝金華都自己登廣告啊自律救濟啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
152.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
152.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
李卓人議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
173.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
174.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
主委知道誰在從事詐騙嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
194.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
194.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
林俊憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
224.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
225.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
現在最容易受害者最多也是年輕人 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
249.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
277.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
因為網路重度使用啦 都在網路裡贏啦我們以前覺得老人黃黃好騙 不一樣啦年輕人也很好騙 你來看啦現在受害者啊 一樣啊 也是集中在年輕人啦這被害人喔 被害人被害人在40歲以內啊 大概7成在7成受害者是40歲以內年輕人所以在這網路上 為什麼速發部很重要 為什麼ACC很重要你看現在這種AI語音生成器啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
278.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
294.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
他可以自動打幾百萬通電話然後他可以根據你怎麼回答他就知道你有沒有興趣你聽幾秒你聽很久講很久就表示你有興趣然後他事後再用簡訊丟回去給你像那邊那個被害人就因為這樣一次兩次費了2700萬像這樣的詐騙案 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
300.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
307.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
未來啊 因為科技的進步啊 現在越來越可怕了我們希望NCC啊 像這種AI語音電競照片 你們有什麼辦法處理啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
309.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
310.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那另外齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
340.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
340.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我告訴你喔 主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
364.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
384.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
你每一次在你任內啦基本上照理講修這個法是你任內很重要的一個工作是是是很可惜啦你看你自己寫的報告裡面啊廣電三法你說要今年年底啦2024年12月才報行政院是OTT啊你寫2025年啊6月才要報行政院啊我不知道你怎麼估算了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
391.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
414.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
目前來看你寫這個錄取實在是有點不大負責任最主要是ODTT是因為涉及到網路平台業者的這種責任的問題那這個部分來講的話不是只有我們ODTT包括整個平台因為ODTT現在的市佔率越來越高啦你應該知道啦ODTT現在佔有率大概13%跟中華電信的MOD幾乎一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
415.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
415.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
林俊憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
435.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
452.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那應該是給下一屆的NCC的那個委員或者是他們主委來弄嘛那你怎麼會定這個日期我不清楚啦但這個法律確實是在避刑嘛你這樣OT現在越來越多啊對不對有間電視收看率一直下降啊還有現在民眾對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
460.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
468.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
483.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
505.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
臺灣的假訊息受境外的有境外的假訊息來影響臺灣是全世界最嚴重的國家而且纏連10年了當然這大部分為了假訊息大家都很清楚就是來自中國嘛那這部分我認為啊事務部跟UCC要負最大的責任所以你看現在民眾啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
506.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
516.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
通訊傳播委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
536.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
536.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
主席 |