| IVOD_ID |
149631 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149631 |
| 日期 |
2024-03-11 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-15-5 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期內政委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
5 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期內政委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-03-11T09:57:11+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-03-11T10:06:41+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:09:30 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9ce5e25ef4cf430020fb95a2f6ac1cb043c6dab19d9f116df8ba9b0039caa7a6ec2d40718126b8875ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
王美惠 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:57:11 - 10:06:41 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-03-11T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請中央選舉委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。） |
| gazette.lineno |
314 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
王委員美惠：（9時57分）主席，我們請主委。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：好，請中選會主委。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
李主任委員進勇：委員您好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
王委員美惠：主委早安！因為今天有很多人說到不在籍投票，本席認為你們所擔心的事你們不敢說，我來替你們發聲，最主要就是如果實施不在籍投票，對臺商的投票而言是非常吃力的，因為他們是身在一個沒民主、沒自由的國家，在那邊申請投票的時候，他會不會想到自己想投給誰就能投給誰？主委，對本席所說的這個問題，是不是你有這個煩惱？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
李主任委員進勇：我們民主的選舉其實遇到很大的挑戰，這個挑戰從哪裡來？ |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
王委員美惠：都有。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
李主任委員進勇：其實不限定在特定的地區。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
王委員美惠：對啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
李主任委員進勇：像是2020年到2024年這兩次的大選，國內、外的報導，國內的情治單位所提供的警訊，國內司法單位所處理的個案在在證明什麼事情，一個對民主選舉最大的威脅，就是境外勢力的介選，這是很清楚的事情。所以當我們在考慮選制改革的時候，不能夠不把這種風險考慮在裡面，這就是選務機關所擔心的東西，不能因為境外勢力的介選，我們反而是提供給它一個管道，所以我們要守得很好，要怎麼守得很好呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
王委員美惠：主委所講的就是海外通訊的投票。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
李主任委員進勇：不只是這樣，無所不在。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
王委員美惠：喔，無所不在？ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
李主任委員進勇：無所不在。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
王委員美惠：這樣就很嚴重了！ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
李主任委員進勇：很嚴重沒有錯。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
王委員美惠：這樣我們的不在籍投票就遙遙無期了。 |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
李主任委員進勇：不是只有我們臺灣面臨到這種的挑戰，在美國的選舉不是也…… |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
王委員美惠：我知道啦！有很多國家都在實施之後覺得這樣會不公平，不行！趕快再停止，有很多國家也是這樣啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
李主任委員進勇：不在籍投票不是不能做，但是在特殊的一個環境之下，我們要…… |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
王委員美惠：最主要你要實施在人民信任的地方嘛！如果沒有信任的基礎，說實在的，你們所擔心的我也會擔心耶！不是主委會怕而已，本席也怕。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
李主任委員進勇：當然，這是大家共同面對的問題。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
王委員美惠：我相信大家要共同面對不在籍投票，像你剛剛所講的，我們說實在的談到不在籍投票的時候，總統都是一樣嘛，副總統也都一樣，有幾組就是幾組了；不過在立委的選舉當中，不同的地方就投給76個不同的立法委員候選人。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
李主任委員進勇：不同的選舉票。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
王委員美惠：這也是很嚴重的，你不能出差錯啦！所以在這裡本席要告訴你們，你們一直覺得擔憂及煩惱的是剛才你所講的，可以有什麼克服的方法嗎？請主委說明。 |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
李主任委員進勇：跟委員報告，其實這個不在籍投票對於選務的衝擊，這還是基礎喔！不是沒問題，這是有問題的，像是在立法委員的選舉，如果要用不在籍投票的時候，有76種選票。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
王委員美惠：對！ |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
李主任委員進勇：地方的選舉，例如九合一、五合一、三合一如果要實施的時候，不同的票聽說有八千多張，我沒有去做詳細的…… |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
王委員美惠：對啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
李主任委員進勇：所以這個選務是有問題的，但是這一點不能夠作為理由說我們就不要實施，不是！選務也許可以克服的，但是…… |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
王委員美惠：我們要去克服、要去找出問題嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
李主任委員進勇：基本的問題最重要的是什麼？就是選舉競爭的公平性很重要。第二點…… |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
王委員美惠：這是最重要的，所以本席要告訴你，不在籍投票如果是在沒有民主自由的國家進行投票，這對候選人是很不公平的。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
李主任委員進勇：第二個問題，就是用不同的不在籍投票方式，總有一些風險的存在，如果實施的話，能不能夠得到社會各界的信賴，這是很重要的。在選舉的過程中，如果老百姓對此不相信的時候，這樣會亂的、會翻盤的。 |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
王委員美惠：對！ |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
李主任委員進勇：所以我們考慮的是這些因素，這些因素不是說都不能做，而是我們必須要有很完整的規劃、有累積實務的實施經驗，穩健的跨出，我們不拒絕、我們不排斥，但是選務的穩定性一定要考量。 |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
王委員美惠：主委，如剛才你所解釋的，本席想要告訴你，如果你們已經在4月10日要進行試用。 |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
李主任委員進勇：公投連署。 |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
王委員美惠：對！這個連署沒有人知道，是你說試用的，大家都想說現在開始不簡單了，中選會要開始讓大家電子連署了，但是你們的資訊真的會讓人家覺得不行，那個試用真的沒有人知道，所以本席希望你們要再開記者會說明清楚。 |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
李主任委員進勇：我們有安排開記者會。 |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
王委員美惠：還要再安排。剛才你說選務的滿意度達到93%。 |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
李主任委員進勇：對選務工作人員的服務態度達到93%、94%。 |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
王委員美惠：對啦！主委，在上屆會期要結束的時候，本席也有跟你探討過很多地方為了身心障礙者要去投票，絕對要想到他們的權利。主委，你有沒有看到這唯一一位身心障礙的候選人陳俊翰說了什麼？他說看到樓梯在那裡可以爬上去，結果他無法爬上去，他跟媽媽要去繞一圈之後才有辦法爬上去。主委，你們真的做得很不到位，本席在這裡質詢時就跟你們說過了，一定要便民，像地方上你們是否曾有去統計目前有多少不方便的地方，這次你們要檢討多少，我相信你們都沒有做到。 |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
李主任委員進勇：都有、都有。 |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
王委員美惠：都有怎麼會變成這樣？這個問題是怎麼樣？主委，我們不要說別的，請討論這個問題就好了。 |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
李主任委員進勇：有些是…… |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
王委員美惠：我不想跟你談有些的問題，主委，我說這個…… |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
李主任委員進勇：98%都有，不是檢核合格就是有輔助的設施。 |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
王委員美惠：主委，我質詢的時間也剩十幾秒…… |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
李主任委員進勇：我們也很重視啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
王委員美惠：我覺得說我們一定要做好…… |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
李主任委員進勇：好，再加強。 |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
王委員美惠：你不要說我就做到98%、97%，是不是那2%、3%可以再做好一點？ |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
李主任委員進勇：那有兩種可能，一種就是你下次就換別地方，不要在那個地方；一種就是你用人力來輔助。 |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
王委員美惠：下次要怎麼換別的地方？主席，給我1分鐘，他在那邊投票要怎麼換別的地方去投票？ |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
李主任委員進勇：它如果真的沒辦法改善這個無障礙設施的話，那就要換地方。 |
| gazette.blocks[55][0] |
王委員美惠：我說給你聽，主委，什麼都有辦法改善，你看人家餐廳的樓梯怎麼做？它還會想辦法去做一個臨時的器械可以讓身心障礙的消費者爬上去，我們要不要做而已。 |
| gazette.blocks[56][0] |
李主任委員進勇：所以臨時簡易性的設施都有做啦！能夠做的我們都有做。 |
| gazette.blocks[57][0] |
王委員美惠：我跟你說，主委，針對這個麻煩報告給我。 |
| gazette.blocks[58][0] |
李主任委員進勇：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[59][0] |
王委員美惠：因為我覺得每一個我們都要公平，不是只有我們身心不便的候選人而已，我相信每一個地方都有這個問題，本席跟你說過了，我們要便民，有的他真的坐輪椅去的時候，看了真的不方便他又回來，主委，真的這個問題要慎重處理，你還有進步的空間，以上。 |
| gazette.blocks[60][0] |
李主任委員進勇：是，也要拜託如果有遇到這個問題的時候要跟我們的工作人員反映。 |
| gazette.blocks[61][0] |
王委員美惠：好，你先…… |
| gazette.blocks[62][0] |
主席：謝謝王美惠委員的質詢，主委，王美惠委員提出我們的場地勘查一定要落實，好，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[62][1] |
我們下一位委員，我們徐欣瑩徐委員。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
270 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-1-15-5 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
吳琪銘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
張宏陸 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
牛煦庭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
許宇甄 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
黃建賓 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
王美惠 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
徐欣瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
黃捷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
高金素梅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
丁學忠 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
蘇清泉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
李坤城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
黃珊珊 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
羅智強 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
陳培瑜 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
陳冠廷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
張啓楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[21] |
麥玉珍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[22] |
蘇巧慧 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[23] |
王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[24] |
林俊憲 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
193 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-03-11 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1131001 |
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| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
邀請中央選舉委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢 |
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1131001_00011 |
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1.213 |
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中央選舉委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
6.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
14.534 |
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委員你好主委早 主委本席因為今天有很多人說到不在即投票 是在本席的領委 覺得說你們走走 你不敢說 我替你們說因為最主要就是 你們不在即投票那在台上的投票是誰最會吃我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
35.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
48.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
因為是一個國家沒民主沒自由的國家你在那申請投票的時候他甘會想到他自己想要投什麼人可以投主委是不是你有這個歡樂來本市所講的這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
58.431 |
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61.634 |
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民主選舉有很多條件,這個條件對大陸來,其實不限定在特定的地區,像2020年到2024年這兩次大選,國內外的報導 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
78.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
93.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
國內的情治單位所提供的警訊國內事務單位所處理的個案在在的證明什麼事情一個對民主選舉最大的威脅就是境外勢力的竊選這是很清楚的事情所以當我們在考慮這個選制的改革的時候不能夠不把這種風險要考慮在裡面這就是全部機關所擔心的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
106.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
118.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
因為不能因為境外勢力的一個借權,我們反而是提供給他一個管道,所以我們要守得很好,要怎麼守得很好呢?這樣主委你所說的就是海外通訊的投票啊?不只是這樣,無所不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
125.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
131.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
這就很嚴重了,我們的遙遙無盡要用不在一起投票的時候。這不是跟我們台灣面臨的這種挑戰,美國的選舉不想讓大家站起來。我知道啦,有很多國家都實施下去覺得說,哇,這不公平不行,趕快再做一次,是有很多國家也是這樣啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
146.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
158.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
這個不在籍投票不是不能做,但是特殊的一個最主要你要做在人民信任的所在嘛,你沒有信任那個說實在的,你會怕怕,我也會怕 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
164.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
177.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
我相信大家要共同民對不在即投票像你剛才所說的,我們說實在的,你說不在即投票的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
178.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
181.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
總統都一樣,副總統都一樣,整座就是整座,但在選舉當中不一樣的地方,有76個投票不一樣的候選人這也是很嚴重的分析,你不能出客車 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
203.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
205.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
所以在這裏面本身要跟你說,你一直覺得說,大廟的時候是歡樂剛才你所說的,可以有什麼好克服的地方嗎?來,主委來 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
218.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
220.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我要報告的就是 其實這個不在籍投票對於選務的衝擊這是要再基礎喔不是沒問題有問題 你想想說 立法院選舉如果說要用不在籍投票的時間 76張票 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
234.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
235.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
選舉委員：王美惠 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
259.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
267.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
基本的問題最重要的是什麼?就是說你選舉競爭的公平性很重要啦!公平性!這最重要!所以本事要跟你說你不在於投票,在沒有民主主義的國家投票出來,會對一個好選人 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
277.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
278.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
293.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
293.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
選舉委員會主任委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
319.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
331.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
主委,你剛才所解釋的,在本席所要說的就是說,你要說已經要契用在4月70要契用嘛,對,這個連署當中,沒有人知道,沒有人是你說要契用的,大家都想說,現在開始了,不簡單,你們的總選委要開始讓人整個電子連署了啦, |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
349.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
360.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
但是你們的資訊讓人覺得那個氣氊真的沒有人知道主委你知道這個氣氊真的所以本市在這裡希望你們要再開記者會再說明我們有安排對 要再安排再來在剛才你說選委員會時的滿意度93% |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
379.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
406.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
對選務工作人員服務態度高達3﹑高達4﹑主委,在電台的選,要選的選本選後,跟你談到說,很多地方遇到身心障礙,的人要去投票,絕對要想到他們的權利。是。主委,你有看到,你看,唯一一個身心的好選人, |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
407.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
419.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
陳靜安他說什麼?他說他看到老闆在那裡還可以回去,結果他沒辦法回去,他跟媽媽就要再去死一年以後,才有辦法回去。主委,我們做這個真的不到位啦,在本社在這個季順的時候,就跟你們說,一定要變民,像電影的, |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
437.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
451.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
您敢不去統計說,目前有我們的不方便的有多少,這次我們要檢討多少,我相信他們都沒有做到,都有哪會變成這樣,那這個問題是怎樣來,主委我們不要講白話,來講這個問題就好了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
458.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
471.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我不是跟你講一半的事主委我說這個...如果高...百分之九十八以上都有...你不是檢核合格就是有輔助的設施有輔助的設施主委我的精選的時間也剩十幾秒以後我覺得我們已經要做了你不要說我做到九十八%九十千% |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
482.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
490.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
是不是那2、3%可以說做得那麼好?那有兩種可能,一種就是說你老闆有多寶貴不要在那個地方一種就是說你用人力來輔助他在那裡投票要怎麼多寶貴去投他如果說正經就沒辦法改善這個無障礙設施的話那就要換地方了什麼種都沒辦法改善你看人家餐廳怎麼會到處怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
511.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
514.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
所以臨時檢疫的設施都有做啦 能夠做的我們都有做主委 針對這個麻煩報告給我 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
529.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
538.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
因為我覺得每一個我們都要講白,不是跟我們的好選人、紳士、好選人而已我相信每一個地方都有這個問題本身跟你講過了,我們要方便民有的他真的在輪椅上的時候,看真的不方便,他還回來了,主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
555.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
565.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
真的,我們這個問題,要深入去用,你還要有進步的空間,以上是,我也拜託啦,就是說如果有遇到這個問題時,要把我們的工作人員歡迎 |