| IVOD_ID |
149204 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149204 |
| 日期 |
2024-03-04 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-36-2 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
2 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-03-04T10:12:31+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-03-04T10:25:40+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:09 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ad9f873b941d2dddd1390f640d9c714a2dd7be9832461c05f8ba9b0039caa7a60e7e88b7d6e8a5905ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
羅智強 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:12:31 - 10:25:40 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-03-04T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請司法院秘書長列席說明立法計畫，並備質詢。） |
| gazette.lineno |
319 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
羅委員智強：（10時12分）主席、吳秘書長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
吳秘書長三龍：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
羅委員智強：我想要賡續黃國昌委員剛才的質詢內容，我要再度確認一件事情。請問司法院支持制定妨害司法公正罪、懲治關說司法嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
吳秘書長三龍：因為時代的變遷，有需要的話…… |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
羅委員智強：你不用重複你剛剛對黃國昌的回答了，吳秘書長你只要告訴我，司法院支持懲治關說司法的行為嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
吳秘書長三龍：我是傾向應該是可以往這個方向來…… |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
羅委員智強：你傾向？你今天代表誰出來答詢的？ |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
吳秘書長三龍：就是傾向可以往這個方向來…… |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
羅委員智強：你就是司法院的代表坐在這個地方，你沒有個人立場，你只有司法院的立場。我再問你一次，你認為關說司法是不是應該要懲治？ |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
吳秘書長三龍：這個是不容許嘛，所以有需要…… |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
羅委員智強：不容許，那麼需要立法來懲治？ |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
吳秘書長三龍：有需要立法來科以刑事責任，那就要科了嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
羅委員智強：所以你支持立法科以刑事責任嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
吳秘書長三龍：就…… |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
羅委員智強：我想請問你，其實不管是剛剛黃國昌委員舉例的蕭仰歸的司法關說案，目前法官關說法官有沒有罪？有沒有刑事責任？ |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
吳秘書長三龍：有些是涉及個案這個事實…… |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
羅委員智強：不要再拿個案推託。我再問你，陸委會主委邱太三在擔任國安會諮詢委員期間也涉及關說司法，為什麼他可以全身而退？我告訴你為什麼，因為我們現在沒有關說司法罪，關說司法無罪啊！不是嗎？請問你，關說司法到底該不該成為一個法律，構成刑事責任？ |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
吳秘書長三龍：社會在變遷，有需要當然就要構成了嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
羅委員智強：這跟社會變遷什麼關係？你什麼時候當法官的？你哪一年開始當法官的？ |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
吳秘書長三龍：我在民國72年。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
羅委員智強：請問民國72年的時候，你就認同當時的社會狀態是容許關說司法嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
吳秘書長三龍：社會一直在變遷，以目前的時空環境…… |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
羅委員智強：好，我再問你，去年你跟行政院、法務部一起召開司法改革重點成效記者會，當時許宗力院長說民眾對於司法改革已經由不信任轉為信任，由不滿意轉為滿意，司法改革已經獲得多數民眾的認同。你認同許院長說的這句話嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
吳秘書長三龍：就是說這個…… |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
羅委員智強：司法改革已經獲得多數民眾的認同了嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
吳秘書長三龍：因為各種民意調查不同的取樣…… |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
羅委員智強：你也知道民意調查站在這句話的對立面嘛！同年度民間團體「台灣公民人權聯盟」所做的調查，四成八的民眾不滿意司法改革，五成五認為臺灣司法不公正，五成二不滿意法官的表現；去年中正大學犯罪研究中心做的民調，對於法官可公正公平審理與判決之刑事案件，只有三成二的民眾正面肯定，而今年中正大學的民調也只有三成三的正面肯定。看起來人民的意見跟許宗力院長的自我感覺良好差別蠻大的吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
吳秘書長三龍：所以不同的民調…… |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
羅委員智強：所以這些民調都不準啦！因為不同的民調、不同調查方式，都不準啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
吳秘書長三龍：不同的問題…… |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
羅委員智強：沒有關係，我就跟你講一個根本的問題。現在我們司法院可以自我感覺良好，覺得司法改革有成績，人民對於司法改革已經很認同，可是事實上法官的信任度在歷次這些民間的調查當中，都遠遠落後檢察官跟警察，你不覺得司法院有責任去讓人民更加認同司法嗎？有沒有這個責任？ |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
吳秘書長三龍：有責任。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
羅委員智強：那我告訴你，為什麼大家對司法這麼不滿意，司改會議提出了哪些司法改革？「制定公益揭弊者保護法」、「堅實並提升第一審審判品質」、「設立司法科學委員會」、「提升鑑定品質」、「制定調解基本法」、「建立獨立之刑事冤案特別救濟制度」及「強化冤案受害人之名譽回復及社會復歸」，請問這些改革法案進展如何？ |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
吳秘書長三龍：因為有些是屬於……因為在司法院跟法務部之間有一個分工。 |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
羅委員智強：又要推給法務部了？又要推給法務部了嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
吳秘書長三龍：就是一些修法方面…… |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
羅委員智強：我告訴你最關鍵的原因是，請問到現在關說司法都無罪，人民憑什麼相信司法？今天我只問，秘書長你也當過法官，你有聽過一句話，以前叫「有錢判生，無錢判死」嗎？有沒有聽過？有沒有聽過這句話？ |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
吳秘書長三龍：現在對於風紀、操守這一部分我們是…… |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
羅委員智強：我告訴你，如果涉及金錢，就是所謂收受不正利益跟賄賂的問題，這部分是有罪啦！所以我告訴你現在不是「有錢判生，無錢判死」，現在叫「有權判生，無權判死」，為什麼？我想請問你，一般升斗小民有能力關說司法嗎？請問有能力關說司法都是哪些人？你告訴我過去的例子！蕭仰歸的案子是誰去關說司法？是法官去關說司法。今天我們看到行政首長邱太三當過法務部長，他卸任之後也去關說司法，包括本院我們柯建銘委員也有能力關說司法，請問這三個關說司法的態樣現在有沒有罪？ |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
吳秘書長三龍：有些涉及個案的問題…… |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
羅委員智強：報告，我拜託秘書長，有罪沒罪就是「有」跟「沒有」啦！沒有個案問題啦！現在有沒有妨害司法公正罪？連這個都答不出來，司法院連這個都答不出來嗎？不至於吧？有沒有嘛？ |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
吳秘書長三龍：該修法就要修法。 |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
羅委員智強：現在就是沒有啊！該修法就修法，你喊多少年？請問妨害司法公正罪有沒有列入你們自己講的司法改革國是會議的決議？有沒有？有沒有？我告訴你，有啦！有啦！八年了啦！七年了啦！說不改就是不改，你還要牽拖說這些民意調查因為調查方法，所以不準嗎？光這一項，我就沒辦法相信司法，你不是鼓勵有權的人去關說司法嗎？你推給法務部，這是不是法務部的業務啊？是不是？ |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
吳秘書長三龍：因為這個…… |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
羅委員智強：我知道你要推給法務部啦！我跟秘書長報告，關說司法被關說的主體是誰？被關說者是誰？ |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
吳秘書長三龍：因為這個…… |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
羅委員智強：被關說者是法官，法官是誰的院下？是法務部院下嗎？還是司法院院下？ |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
吳秘書長三龍：總是犯罪率…… |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
羅委員智強：捍衛法規法官公平公正審判，請問是法務部的責任，還是你司法院的責任？還是兩個都有責任啊？ |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
吳秘書長三龍：這個在於制定法規及修法面，法務部跟司法院之間有一個分工…… |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
羅委員智強：我告訴你，法務部要做，司法院也要做啦！你認不認同？ |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
吳秘書長三龍：我們當然…… |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
羅委員智強：法官耶！奇怪，法官是法務部管的啊？ |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
吳秘書長三龍：有提出這個…… |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
羅委員智強：今天法官是員額編制在法務部嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[55][0] |
吳秘書長三龍：我們會支持，法務部有提出來，我們會…… |
| gazette.blocks[56][0] |
羅委員智強：我跟秘書長報告，你真的不能怪人民不相信司法，光是從整個答詢過程當中，我就沒有看到司法院積極捍衛法官獨立審案、拒絕關說、創造公平審判法制的決志。 |
| gazette.blocks[56][1] |
我再講一個簡單的事情，你們今天提的立法計畫表裡面有妨害司法公正罪嗎？沒有，因為是法務部的事，對不對？因為是法務部的事，不是你司法院的事，不是嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[57][0] |
吳秘書長三龍：因為這個是法務部，因為總是…… |
| gazette.blocks[58][0] |
羅委員智強：人民聽不懂啦！聽不懂啦！為什麼叫法務部的事？ |
| gazette.blocks[59][0] |
吳秘書長三龍：因為法案是…… |
| gazette.blocks[60][0] |
羅委員智強：所以你在指責法務部修法怠惰，你曾經當過法官，你都認為今天關說司法應該要有刑事責任，你剛剛的答詢是這個意思，沒錯吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[61][0] |
吳秘書長三龍：是這樣。 |
| gazette.blocks[62][0] |
羅委員智強：謝謝！你在這邊也是公然告訴大家法務部怠職無能，到現在為止多少年了？關說司法無罪，在臺灣不是一個天大的笑話？ |
| gazette.blocks[62][1] |
我再請教一下秘書長，請問從你法院的實務來看，沒有密錄器這件事情在證據上會產生什麼結果？警察執法沒有開密錄器會產生什麼結果？ |
| gazette.blocks[63][0] |
吳秘書長三龍：關於這些證據能力的問題，個案會…… |
| gazette.blocks[64][0] |
羅委員智強：又在個案，我來跟你講，去年臺北市萬華分局移送1位鄧姓女子，說她違反社會秩序維護法，無故持有電擊棒，最後法院裁定不罰，你知道臺北地方法院裁定不罰的理由是什麼嗎？你當然不知道，我告訴你，因為地方法院兩度要求警方拿出密錄器，警方都交不出來，於是地方法院重批其蒐證不力，不注意自身執行職務安全的「粗糙移送」，不是文明法治社會的執法機關應有的態度，所以基於憲法的法治國原則，法院難以認同，所以判決不罰。你覺得我們地方法院這樣一個判決有沒有理據？ |
| gazette.blocks[65][0] |
吳秘書長三龍：因為他個案認定…… |
| gazette.blocks[66][0] |
羅委員智強：你從頭到尾都個案啦！你也不關心怎麼健全法治環境，所有的法治環境都是個案堆積起來的，當你每個個案今天該辦不辦、該規範不規範，就變成今天所有民調顯示不相信司法的原因。 |
| gazette.blocks[66][1] |
我做一個很簡單的結論，連地方法院都知道沒開密錄器對證據力的影響是什麼，這當然跟你沒關係，我先強調，海委會管碧玲主委她竟然可以讓海巡在執法的時候沒有錄影，這叫陷執法人員於不義，如果在法院的實務裁判上，今天你不但會讓我們警方人員的執法無效化，甚至前面黃國昌委員不是有講到用GPS蒐證，最後還變成妨害秘密罪，這叫陷執法人員不義。 |
| gazette.blocks[66][2] |
所以最後我的結論很簡單，我真的拜託我們司法院可以積極一點，不要都推給法務部了，尤其關說司法罪明明就是兩個單位都有責任的事情，你推我、我推你，一推幾十年，才會造成今天對司法信任度低落的一個最重要的元兇，就是執法單位、相關主管機關的怠惰跟不負責任，以上。 |
| gazette.blocks[67][0] |
吳秘書長三龍：謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[68][0] |
主席：謝謝羅委員。我們現在請登記第5位的林委員發言。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
384 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-1-36-2 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
吳宗憲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
翁曉玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
沈發惠 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
鍾佳濱 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
柯建銘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
羅智強 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
莊瑞雄 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
林思銘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
吳思瑤 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
傅崐萁 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
謝龍介 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
陳俊宇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
黃珊珊 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
329 |
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2024-03-04 |
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1130501 |
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1130501_00011 |
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立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
邀請司法院秘書長列席說明立法計畫，並備質詢 |
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1130501_00019 |
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主席還有我們吳秘書長我想要根據那個黃國昌委員他剛剛的質詢的內容我要再度確認一件事情請問司法院支持制定防害司法公正罪懲治關說司法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
27.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
30.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
吳秘書長,司法院支持懲治關說司法的行為嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
47.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
49.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
你就是司法院的代表坐在這個地方你沒有個人立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
61.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
82.78 |
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你只有司法院的立場我再問你一次你認為關說司法是不是應該要懲治那這個是不容許嘛所以有需要不容許那需要立法來懲治那有需要立法來可以行事責任那就要科了所以你支持立法可以行事責任嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
83.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
85.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
法官關說法官有沒有罪?有沒有刑事責任? |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
107.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
127.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
不要再拿個案推脫我再問你齁邱泰山我們陸委會主委在擔任國安會諮詢委員期間也涉及關說司法為什麼他可以全身而退為什麼我告訴你為什麼因為我們現在沒有關說司法罪啊關說司法無罪啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
130.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
138.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
請問你 關說司法到底該不該成為一個刑事責任的法律 構成刑事責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
140.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
161.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
社會在變遷有需要當然就要過程這跟社會變遷什麼關係?你什麼時候當法官的?你哪一年開始當法官的?在民國72年那請問民國72年的時候你就認同當時的社會狀態是容許關說司法嗎?社會一直在變遷以目前的屬空環境好我再問您您知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
163.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
192.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
昨年您跟行政院法務部一起召開司法改革重點成效記者會當時許中立院長說民眾對於司法改革已經由不信任轉為信任不滿意轉為滿意司法改革已經獲得多數民眾的認同你認同我們許院長說這句話嗎司法改革已經獲得多數民眾的認同了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
195.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
219.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
你也知道民意調查站在這句話的對立面嘛同年度民間團體台灣公民人權聯盟所做的調查四成八的民眾不滿意司法改革五成五認為台灣司法不公正五成二不滿意法官的表現去年中正大學犯罪研究中心做的民調 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
220.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
239.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
對於法官可公正公平審理與判決時事案件只有3乘2的民眾正面肯定而今年中正大學民調也只有3乘3的正面肯定看起來人民的意見跟許中立院長的是我感覺良好差別蠻大的吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
240.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
269.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
所以這些民調都不準啦因為不同的民調不同的調查方式都不準啦沒有關係我就跟你講一個根本的問題嘛現在我們司法院你可以自我感覺良好覺得司法改革有成績人民對於司法改革已經很認同可是呢事實上法官的信任度在歷次這些民間的調查當中都遠遠落後檢察官跟警察你不覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
270.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
288.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
司法院有責任去讓人民更加認同司法嗎?有沒有這個責任?那我告訴你為什麼大家對司法這麼的不滿意?司改會議提出了哪些司法改革? |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
289.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
314.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
制定公義階幣者保護法堅實並提升第一審審判品質設立司法科學委員會提升鑑定品質制定調解基本法建立獨立之刑事冤案特別救濟制度強化冤案受害人之名譽回復及社會復歸請問這些改革法案進展如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
315.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
344.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
因為有些是屬於因為在司法院跟法務部之間有一個分工又要推給法務部了嗎我告訴你最關鍵的原因就是請問到現在關說司法都無罪人民憑什麼相信司法我只問今天我們秘書長你也當過法官你有聽過一句話以前叫有錢判生無錢判死嗎有沒有聽過 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
346.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
373.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
有沒有聽過這句話我告訴你如果涉及金錢就有所謂的收受不正利跟賄賂的問題啦所以這部分是有罪啦所以我告訴你現在不是有錢判生無錢判死現在叫有權判生無權判死為什麼我想請問你一般生走小民 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
374.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
397.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
有能力關說司法嗎?請問有能力關說司法都是哪些人?你告訴我過去的例子相規的案子是誰去關說司法?是法官去關說司法今天我們看到的行政首長邱泰山當過法務部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
399.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
410.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
他卸任之後也去關說司法．包括本院的我們柯建民委員．也能夠有能力關說司法．請問這三個關說司法的拍樣．現在有沒有罪?報告我拜託喔秘書長．有罪沒罪齁．就是有跟沒有啦沒有個案問題啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
424.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
446.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
現在有沒有妨礙司法公正罪嗎?連這個都答不出來司法院連這個都答不出來嗎?不至於吧?有沒有嘛?那該修法就要修法現在就是沒有啊!該修法就要修法你喊多少年?請問,妨礙司法公正罪有沒有列入你們自己講的司法改革國事會議的決議有沒有?有沒有?我告訴你有啦!有啦! |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
454.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
470.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
八年了啦 七年了啦 說不改就是不改啦那你還要牽托說 這些民意調查 因為調查方法 所以不準嗎你過這一下 我就沒辦法相信司法啊你不是鼓勵有權的人 去關說司法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
478.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
489.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那你推給法務部是不是法務部的業務啊?是不是?我知道你要推給法務部啦那我就跟秘書長報告關說司法被關說的主體是誰?被關說的關說者是誰?被關說者是誰?被關說者是法官欸法官是誰的院下?是法務部院下嗎?還是司法院院下? |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
508.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
533.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
捍衛法官公平公正審判請問是法務部的責任還是你司法院的責任啊還是兩個都有責任啊我告訴你法務部要做司法院也要做啦你認不認同法官欸請問法官是法務部管的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
536.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
559.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
法官是今天是緣而編制在法務部嗎我跟秘書長報告你真的不能怪人民不相信司法你光從整個答詢過程當中我就沒有看到司法院積極捍衛法官獨立審案拒絕關說創造公平審判法制的決制阿我再講一個簡單的事情阿 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
560.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
577.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
你們今天提的立法計畫表裡面有妨礙司法公正罪嗎?沒有啊 因為是法務部的事嘛 對不對因為是法務部的事嘛 不是你司法院的事嘛不是嗎人民聽不懂啦 聽不懂啦 為什麼叫法務部的事 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
585.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
611.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
那所以你在指責法務部修法太多你都認為要制定你都認為你曾經當過法官你都認為今天關說司法應該有刑事責任你剛剛答詢是這個意思吧沒錯吧謝謝嘛那你就是在這邊你也是公然告訴大家法務部待職無能啊到現在為止多少年了沒有關說司法無罪在台灣不是一個天大的笑話 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
613.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
616.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我再請教一下我們的秘書長請問從你法院的實務來看沒有密錄器這件事情在證據上會產生什麼結果?警察執法沒有開密錄器會產生什麼結果? |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
634.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
654.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
關於這些政績能力的問題他個案會...又在個案嘛我來跟你講啦去年臺北市萬華分局移送一位鄧姓女子說她違反社會秩序維護法無故持有電擊棒最後法院裁定不罰你知道法院的理由是什麼嗎地方法院臺北地方法院裁定不罰理由是什麼嗎你當然不知道我告訴你 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
659.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
687.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
因為地方法院兩度要求警方拿出秘錄器警方都交不出來於是地方法院重批這個收證不力不注意自身執行職務安全的粗糙移送不是文明法治社會執法機關應有的態度所以介於憲法的法治國原則法院難以認同所以判決不法你覺得我們地方法院這樣的一個判決有沒有理據 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
692.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
718.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
你從頭到尾都個案啊你也不關心法治環境怎麼健全啊所有的法治環境都是個案堆積起來的啊當你每個個案今天該辦不辦該規範不規範就變成今天所有民調顯示不相信司法的原因啊我做一個很簡單的結論連地方法院都知道沒開密錄器對證據力的影響是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
719.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
737.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
這當然跟你沒關係我先強調海巡署管碧玲委員海巡海委會管碧玲主委他竟然可以讓海巡在執法的時候沒有錄影這叫限執法人人於不義 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
739.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
756.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
如果在法院的實務裁判上你會讓今天不但我們的警方執法人員的執法無效化你甚至前面黃國昌委員不是有講到用GPS修正罪還變成法案秘密罪這叫限執法人員不義啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
760.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
786.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
所以最後我的結論很簡單我真的拜託我們司法院可以積極一點不要都推給法務部啦尤其關說司法罪明明就是兩個單位都有責任的事情你推我推你一推幾十年才會造成今天對司法信任度低落的一個最重要的元兇就是執法單位就是相關主管機關的怠惰跟不負責任以上 |