| IVOD_ID |
149136 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149136 |
| 日期 |
2024-02-23 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-1-2 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期第2次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
2 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
立法院第11屆第1會期第2次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-02-23T15:20:07+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-02-23T15:36:06+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:59 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/61d28f3f53a2feb66b8e85496077213db347916f9bc661eaf8ba9b0039caa7a62cf261293753083b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
謝龍介 |
| 委員發言時間 |
15:20:07 - 15:36:06 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-02-23T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第1會期第2次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。
二、2月23日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。
三、2月27日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。） |
| gazette.lineno |
452 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
謝委員龍介：（15時20分）陳院長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：有請陳院長備詢。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
陳院長建仁：謝委員，恭喜喔！ |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
謝委員龍介：感謝你，你要聽台語還是國語？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
陳院長建仁：都可以，你台語講得比較好，我沒有你那麼好。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
謝委員龍介：沒有啦！你科學做得比較好。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][1] |
我覺得稍微有一點歪樓了！一個這麼嚴肅的課題，全國的同胞都在看食安啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
陳院長建仁：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
謝委員龍介：包括你和我，我們大家都很重視食安。 |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
陳院長建仁：對，我知道委員你很重視。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
謝委員龍介：結果我看你回答民進黨委員時都「嘴笑目笑」，如果是國民黨的委員上來問你兩句，你就講得咬牙切齒。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
陳院長建仁：沒有，不是這樣，要看問得有道理還是沒有道理嘛！要講道理，我是講道理，要講道理嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
謝委員龍介：你不要這樣想，像徐巧芯委員一上來，你一開始就說他外行。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
陳院長建仁：但是他講的確確實實是外行。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
謝委員龍介：來，我問你，有豬肉被驗到出問題嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
陳院長建仁：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
謝委員龍介：你知道豬仔養到成豬拍賣要養幾天？ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
陳院長建仁：我不是養豬的人，所以我不知道。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
謝委員龍介：所以你也外行。 |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
陳院長建仁：對，這方面我外行，但是如果要講在養豬場裡面用哪一種飼料、採什麼樣的檢驗、養到什麼程度，這些我知道…… |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
謝委員龍介：這你內行。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
陳院長建仁：這些都有檢查。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
謝委員龍介：你跟我說是怎麼檢查的。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
陳院長建仁：飼料有檢查，豬隻也有檢查。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
謝委員龍介：豬吃什麼飼料？ |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
陳代理部長駿季：委員，我可以回答嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
謝委員龍介：你可以講。 |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
陳代理部長駿季：我們豬的飼料分兩種，一種是大廠配方的部分，包括一些大豆跟玉米混合的飼料，然後加一些所謂的飼料添加物。 |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
謝委員龍介：好，添加物是什麼？ |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
陳代理部長駿季：飼料的添加物包括一些促進生長的合法使用添加物，包括一些微量元素。 |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
陳院長建仁：就是骨粉、魚粉這種。 |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
謝委員龍介：我講給你聽，在那裡面有魚粉、骨粉。 |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
陳代理部長駿季：有，那是另外的添加物。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
陳院長建仁：魚粉。 |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
謝委員龍介：豬用了乙型受體素，是在什麼時候吃？ |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
陳院長建仁：豬沒有…… |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
謝委員龍介：他比較內行，請問豬要養幾天？ |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
陳代理部長駿季：豬平均要6個月左右。 |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
謝委員龍介：從出生到拍賣要6個月？ |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
陳代理部長駿季：就是到6個月，大概平均100到120公斤可以出豬。 |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
謝委員龍介：那你也外行，從出生到拍賣要7個月。 |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
陳代理部長駿季：差不多半年、6個月。 |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
謝委員龍介：在斷奶後抓回來養要6個月，這樣你聽得懂嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
陳代理部長駿季：對，我知道。 |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
謝委員龍介：在出生以後要打預防針，乙型受體素是在什麼時候添加？ |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
陳代理部長駿季：乙型受體素是豬已經到了快速成長期以後，在換肉率最高的時候，根據我們所得到過去在美國使用的資訊，因為臺灣本身沒有在使用乙型受體素，但是在國外都是在換肉率最高的時候。 |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
謝委員龍介：所以有萊克多巴胺、有瘦肉精的豬肉基本上是不是成本比較便宜？ |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
陳代理部長駿季：以現在美國的資料來說，並沒有比較便宜，以前是有比較便宜，但是現在沒有比較便宜，所以現在美國也越來越少用。 |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
謝委員龍介：有比較便宜，但是為什麼會比較便宜？ |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
陳代理部長駿季：因為豬本身瘦肉跟肥肉的比例會造成在被屠宰以後肉的價格。 |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
謝委員龍介：我跟你說，大概是在最後1個月到40天啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
陳代理部長駿季：就是在換肉率最高的時候。 |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
謝委員龍介：那也沒有換肉啦！吃了以後肉會很漂亮，添加大豆、添加乙型受體素，就不用再添加成本高的魚粉跟骨粉，所以成本就降低了，所以有瘦肉精、含萊克多巴胺的豬肉會比較便宜一點。 |
| gazette.blocks[51][1] |
好，請你們看看，院長，你說排除法，所以不排除這個實驗室受污染，你不要說得太武斷，我覺得你是學科學的人。 |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
陳院長建仁：是啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
謝委員龍介：當天臺中市政府去採取了40件，有40件。 |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
陳院長建仁：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[55][0] |
謝委員龍介：準備好以後開始驗下去，剛好最後這件中了，所以按照排除法，這39件都沒有，那按照排除法，臺中市這個檢驗實驗室沒有受到污染，我這樣說會不會成立？ |
| gazette.blocks[56][0] |
陳院長建仁：我覺得這是你自己的說法啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[57][0] |
謝委員龍介：你說的啊…… |
| gazette.blocks[58][0] |
陳院長建仁：這很簡單啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[59][0] |
謝委員龍介：你們在說的過程就是豬肉的飼料不會污染，市場不會污染，屠宰沒污染，所以應該就是實驗室污染。 |
| gazette.blocks[60][0] |
陳院長建仁：那40件…… |
| gazette.blocks[61][0] |
陳代理部長駿季：我跟委員報告…… |
| gazette.blocks[62][0] |
謝委員龍介：你用這樣來排除，我跟你說，臺中的實驗室它就同時採集了40包嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[63][0] |
陳院長建仁：不是同一批檢驗，但是不是同一個時間…… |
| gazette.blocks[64][0] |
謝委員龍介：同天啦！不是在那間的40件，是全臺中市那天拿回來的有40個肉品就對了。 |
| gazette.blocks[65][0] |
陳院長建仁：是啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[66][0] |
謝委員龍介：剛好台糖這包出事，而剩下的，如果是實驗室有污染，照理說在那裡的39包都會污染到啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[67][0] |
陳院長建仁：實驗室的污染不是像你說的這樣。 |
| gazette.blocks[68][0] |
謝委員龍介：完全沒有啊！你說單一污染，你現在又說什麼，拿不出科學，我現在也不能斷定就是它污染，你這樣就叫做影射啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[69][0] |
陳院長建仁：我請問委員，西布特羅是在哪一處發現的？西布特羅就是只有實驗室有，剩下的實驗室都沒有發現…… |
| gazette.blocks[70][0] |
謝委員龍介：我告訴你，你只說實驗室進入…… |
| gazette.blocks[71][0] |
陳院長建仁：所有的肉品都沒發現。 |
| gazette.blocks[72][0] |
謝委員龍介：你是經過海關、財政部進來說實驗室有採購喔！ |
| gazette.blocks[73][0] |
陳院長建仁：對啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[74][0] |
謝委員龍介：走私的你有沒有問過？我跟你說，臺灣走私的東西奇奇怪怪，什麼都有。 |
| gazette.blocks[75][0] |
陳院長建仁：沒有人走私西布特羅啦！你知道西布特羅進口多少？西布特羅才進口789milligram，milligram是多少？連1公克都沒有喔！1公克都沒有！分到24個實驗室，請問每一個實驗室有多少？ |
| gazette.blocks[76][0] |
謝委員龍介：西布特羅可否合成？ |
| gazette.blocks[77][0] |
陳院長建仁：可以合成，但是不准合成、不准販賣、不准使用，也沒有人在買。 |
| gazette.blocks[78][0] |
謝委員龍介：你不准合成不表示沒有人合成嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[79][0] |
陳代理部長駿季：我跟委員報告，因為西布特羅在其他的國家也是沒有人在用的，沒有人在用的話就不可能去做走私，我們自己來用。 |
| gazette.blocks[80][0] |
謝委員龍介：沒有人在用，現在驗出來，你整個都要拿去亂說話，不要這樣啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[81][0] |
陳代理部長駿季：沒有，真的是國外沒在用。 |
| gazette.blocks[82][0] |
謝委員龍介：我也是用科學跟你討論啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[83][0] |
陳院長建仁：是啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[84][0] |
謝委員龍介：所以不要一句話就咬死。我跟你講，從頭到尾，今天沒有人要任何人負責，第一個，臺中市驗出，包括本黨所有的委員，沒有一個人叫什麼人要下臺，沒有！ |
| gazette.blocks[85][0] |
陳院長建仁：我們也沒有要叫人下臺。 |
| gazette.blocks[86][0] |
謝委員龍介：你們怎麼說的？整日都說台糖好棒棒。 |
| gazette.blocks[87][0] |
陳院長建仁：確實啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[88][0] |
謝委員龍介：為什麼台糖好棒棒？ |
| gazette.blocks[89][0] |
陳院長建仁：確實啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[90][0] |
謝委員龍介：確實？你們早上說什麼？你們早上說因為民眾對台糖信賴，所以豬價拍賣還有92塊、93塊對不對？可以這樣說嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[91][0] |
陳代理部長駿季：我早上是說本身的豬肉在過年前是90塊、90.8。 |
| gazette.blocks[92][0] |
謝委員龍介：好，你們就說，部長有說，因為鄉親對台糖信賴嘛！好，來，現在掉到幾塊你知道嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[93][0] |
陳代理部長駿季：86.4，這幾天平均、過年之後。 |
| gazette.blocks[94][0] |
謝委員龍介：這兩天有到82，你知道嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[95][0] |
陳代理部長駿季：有到83。 |
| gazette.blocks[96][0] |
謝委員龍介：那這兩天突然對台糖不信賴就對了？ |
| gazette.blocks[97][0] |
陳代理部長駿季：這兩天掉下來是年節之後的買氣下降。 |
| gazette.blocks[98][0] |
謝委員龍介：在答詢的時候，當然每個委員講的不一樣，你對他們這樣回應沒關係，但是…… |
| gazette.blocks[99][0] |
陳代理部長駿季：我剛剛也是這樣講哦！ |
| gazette.blocks[100][0] |
謝委員龍介：我剛剛有在聽啦！你看，右上角這個部分請放大，這隻豬養7個月後，在2023年6月7日屠宰，去年6月7日殺的。 |
| gazette.blocks[101][0] |
陳代理部長駿季：大分切。 |
| gazette.blocks[102][0] |
謝委員龍介：因為這個屠宰方式跟我們菜市場的溫體豬不一樣。 |
| gazette.blocks[103][0] |
陳院長建仁：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[104][0] |
謝委員龍介：溫體豬的價格比較好，溫體豬的價格比較漂亮，所以我們拍賣的話，一般豬農就是說，豬皮還是體型沒那麼漂亮的豬，他就選擇不進到拍賣市場，因為進到拍賣市場，假如今天是拍90塊，可是體型差一點，就被拍75塊，他很無奈，他也不能再載回來了，他一載回來就血本無歸嘛！所以他75塊也認了，也要被拍嘛！所以一般冷凍屠宰場大概會比牌價低個2塊錢。體型差一點，皮啦！我們在吃的「三層肉」…… |
| gazette.blocks[105][0] |
陳院長建仁：我知道。 |
| gazette.blocks[106][0] |
謝委員龍介：皮差一點，我都收了，因為它可以加工嘛！這一塊是梅花肉，照理說是滿不錯吃的啦！可是6月7號屠宰，6月8號大分切，就是比較好切啦！因為是機械切的，不是人工切的，把它凍到快要結冰，大概凍到1度或零度再分切，大塊的，結果它出品是在去年12月，就是在半年後出品的，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[107][0] |
陳代理部長駿季：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[108][0] |
謝委員龍介：是不是這樣？ |
| gazette.blocks[109][0] |
陳代理部長駿季：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[110][0] |
謝委員龍介：那你怎麼能保證在這6個月裡面沒有被污染？ |
| gazette.blocks[111][0] |
陳院長建仁：委員，請問西布特羅在什麼地方？就是在實驗室啊！實驗室以外就沒有西布特羅，那要怎麼去污染？這是很簡單的理論嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[112][0] |
謝委員龍介：院長，做事情喔…… |
| gazette.blocks[113][0] |
陳院長建仁：所謂污染物，就是說污染物在哪裡，污染才有可能。 |
| gazette.blocks[114][0] |
謝委員龍介：不要太武斷，如果檢察官像你這樣，一年破案破不到兩件。 |
| gazette.blocks[115][0] |
陳院長建仁：不會啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[116][0] |
謝委員龍介：假如今天是出了人命，檢察官承辦以後就不是這種態度。 |
| gazette.blocks[116][1] |
院長，我請問你，臺中市檢驗這個賣場，從檢驗那一天推算到上架這幾天，我請問你們的單位有沒有任何一個單位去調錄影帶，調那個賣場的錄影帶，去審視這一批肉過程這幾天上架以後都沒有被人家污染到？ |
| gazette.blocks[117][0] |
陳院長建仁：我就說這整批肉都是同一個飼養場、同一個飼料養的同一群豬，所以我們叫做同批嘛！所以同批我們有回收檢驗啊！檢驗都沒有啊！你說如果有…… |
| gazette.blocks[118][0] |
謝委員龍介：在臺中驗到啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[119][0] |
陳院長建仁：你如果說有，所有這一批東西都一定會是陽性。 |
| gazette.blocks[120][0] |
謝委員龍介：被驗到的，就是說在這個冰櫃拿出來檢驗的嘛，它是抽檢嘛，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[121][0] |
陳院長建仁：它就只有一盒。 |
| gazette.blocks[122][0] |
謝委員龍介：抽檢一盒嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[123][0] |
陳院長建仁：一盒而已，那一盒有好多塊，有好幾盒。 |
| gazette.blocks[124][0] |
謝委員龍介：我現在跟你講，就是說你是不是應該去審視這個過程，它上架第三天被抽檢，這三天裡面你們有去調那間的錄影帶，看這個冰箱有沒有被污染到嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[125][0] |
陳院長建仁：有啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[126][0] |
謝委員龍介：你有去調嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[127][0] |
陳院長建仁：有啦！有調啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[128][0] |
謝委員龍介：有人動手嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[129][0] |
薛部長瑞元：沒看到。 |
| gazette.blocks[130][0] |
陳院長建仁：沒看到啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[131][0] |
謝委員龍介：基本上沒有嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[132][0] |
陳代理部長駿季：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[133][0] |
陳院長建仁：是啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[134][0] |
謝委員龍介：所以就因為這樣，你大膽斷定是實驗室污染。 |
| gazette.blocks[135][0] |
陳院長建仁：所以說，委員…… |
| gazette.blocks[136][0] |
謝委員龍介：來…… |
| gazette.blocks[137][0] |
陳院長建仁：我說一下可以嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[138][0] |
謝委員龍介：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[139][0] |
陳院長建仁：現在切下來同一批是二千九百多嘛，你講的嘛，裡面每一塊都沒有喔，就只剩一個有，那一個去買的時候也沒什麼問題喔，進到實驗室以後卻變成有，我說的這是事實！ |
| gazette.blocks[140][0] |
謝委員龍介：所有公務人員是這樣…… |
| gazette.blocks[141][0] |
陳院長建仁：這是事實。 |
| gazette.blocks[142][0] |
謝委員龍介：臺灣規定零檢出嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[143][0] |
陳院長建仁：是啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[144][0] |
謝委員龍介：我驗到的時候我可以不要發布嗎？你跟我講。 |
| gazette.blocks[145][0] |
陳院長建仁：當然不行，但是…… |
| gazette.blocks[146][0] |
謝委員龍介：不行嘛！所以我發布嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[147][0] |
陳院長建仁：不、不、不…… |
| gazette.blocks[148][0] |
謝委員龍介：那現在一樣嘛…… |
| gazette.blocks[149][0] |
陳院長建仁：但是剛剛講的…… |
| gazette.blocks[150][0] |
謝委員龍介：辣椒現在驗出蘇丹紅，這幾個縣市發布不就都有事情？ |
| gazette.blocks[151][0] |
陳院長建仁：你的檢驗要正確嘛！我剛才講過，就是當我們檢驗值在極低量的時候，你要重複檢驗嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[152][0] |
謝委員龍介：來、來、來，你說檢驗要正確，這幾年，你們總共花了26億。 |
| gazette.blocks[153][0] |
陳院長建仁：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[154][0] |
謝委員龍介：你花26億補助各縣市對於食安包括設備、包括器材、包括人員的提升。 |
| gazette.blocks[155][0] |
陳院長建仁：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[156][0] |
謝委員龍介：所以你應該對他們有信心啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[157][0] |
陳院長建仁：有啊，有信心啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[158][0] |
謝委員龍介：而且各縣市是你的下屬單位，也是你的夥伴，是跟你一起要打拚食品安全的嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[159][0] |
陳院長建仁：沒有錯，所以說每一個縣市他們驗出來的，我都很信任他們，但是每一個縣市驗出來的都是零檢出，都沒有檢出喔！就只有那一間有而已啦！我要跟你講的就是這樣！ |
| gazette.blocks[160][0] |
謝委員龍介：本席給你建議啦，就算只有那一間有，你、我，我們都嚴肅面對嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[161][0] |
陳院長建仁：對啊！我們都很嚴肅面對。 |
| gazette.blocks[162][0] |
謝委員龍介：好幾天了，豬農每天都打電話來說拍賣的價錢，我跟你說，今天剩下80.23啦，他們的成本差不多要80塊，成本啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[163][0] |
陳代理部長駿季：78到80元左右。 |
| gazette.blocks[164][0] |
謝委員龍介：如果稍微差池，就要虧錢了。 |
| gazette.blocks[165][0] |
陳代理部長駿季：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[166][0] |
陳院長建仁：所以那個消息是不是要更加…… |
| gazette.blocks[167][0] |
謝委員龍介：不要再說那則消息。 |
| gazette.blocks[168][0] |
陳院長建仁：謹慎檢查確實之後再來公布？不要讓它…… |
| gazette.blocks[169][0] |
謝委員龍介：變成沒有必要的指控嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[170][0] |
陳院長建仁：對啊，但是…… |
| gazette.blocks[171][0] |
謝委員龍介：很簡單。 |
| gazette.blocks[172][0] |
陳院長建仁：很簡單，就是這樣才不會造成不必要的恐慌，不會使豬價下降啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[173][0] |
謝委員龍介：衛福部和行政院大家共同要面對…… |
| gazette.blocks[174][0] |
陳院長建仁：所以檢驗正確很重要、檢驗正確很重要…… |
| gazette.blocks[175][0] |
謝委員龍介：就是說，向國人宣布，在我們所有驗過的肉品裡面，目前都沒有含有乙型受體素…… |
| gazette.blocks[176][0] |
陳院長建仁：大家安心去吃。 |
| gazette.blocks[177][0] |
謝委員龍介：現在開始請大家安心去吃。 |
| gazette.blocks[178][0] |
陳院長建仁：我講過很多次了。 |
| gazette.blocks[179][0] |
謝委員龍介：至於過程裡面哪裡的污染？是我們要積極料敵從嚴去查的嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[180][0] |
陳院長建仁：對啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[181][0] |
謝委員龍介：若要再用政治影射去做政治攻防，後面我就陪伴你了，不要這樣嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[182][0] |
陳院長建仁：我沒有，我都是用科學，所以才會有專家委員會，不是嗎？你如果說豬肉的價格會下降，是什麼人引起下降？ |
| gazette.blocks[183][0] |
主席：謝謝謝委員龍介。 |
| gazette.blocks[183][1] |
接下來請登記第10位吳委員沛憶質詢。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
370 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
院會-11-1-2 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
韓國瑜 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
陳昭姿 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
李坤城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
洪申翰 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
廖偉翔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
吳思瑤 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
徐巧芯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
鍾佳濱 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
謝龍介 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
吳沛憶 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
王育敏 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
何欣純 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
李彥秀 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
王定宇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
羅智強 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
277 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-02-23 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1130401 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1130401_00009 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[1] |
1130401_00010 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期第2次會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
行政院院長提出「民進黨政府執政八年臺灣食安問題總檢討」專案報告並備質詢─ 詢答完畢─ |
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1130401_00012 |
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陳議長陳議長陳院長有請陳院長備詢。小議員,請起。感謝你。你要聽台語還是國語?都可以。你台語講得比較好,我沒理你比較好。沒有,你課他做得比較好。我覺得稍微有這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
41.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
45.389 |
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對,我知道你委員你很重視。 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
60.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
79.919 |
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我看你如果跟民進黨的議員這樣一拳一拳,國民黨的委員會把你摸兩拳,你就把他拆掉。就要看問你有道理沒道理,我講道理啦,我講道理,要講道理。小心點,不然你就要說你外行。但是他講的確確實實是外行啦。來,我問你,這地霸嚴重出問題嘛。 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
88.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
89.453 |
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第一吃什麼治療第一吃什麼治療 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
119.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
119.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
天家屋是什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
137.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
160.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
施料的添加物包括它的一些促進生長的合法的這些使用的這些添加物包括一些微量元素?穀粉啦、魚粉啦這種啦。你裡面有魚粉、有骨粉嗎?有,那個另外,對。添加物?豬用了乙型受體素是什麼時候吃?豬沒有...你還在內行喔?對。豬要吃幾天啊? |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
164.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
186.562 |
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第一大家平均六個月左右啦六個月左右就是到六個月大概平均大概100到120公斤的輪圓的出租然後出席到六個月要七個月差不多要六個月要六個月對我知道出席之後要做有往事 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
194.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
218.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
以行授體數是什麼時候添加?以行授體數的時候是豬已經到了快速成長期以後他在換肉率最高的時候,過去在美國我們得到的資訊因為台灣本身沒在用以行授體數,但是在國外的時候都是在換肉率最快的時候。所以有萊克多巴胺有授肉精的豬肉基本上是不是身分比較小? |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
220.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
223.487 |
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我跟您說齁大概在最後一個月到40天就是換肉率最高的時候那也沒有換肉 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
250.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
253.872 |
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委員長你說排除法所以不排除 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
282.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
283.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
臺中市檢驗實驗室 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
312.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
324.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
沒有受到汙染。我這樣說會不會受到汙染?我認為這是你自己的說法。這很簡單。你們說的規定就是說什麼?治療不會有汙染,市場不會有汙染,所以都在有汙染,所以應該就是實驗室汙染。那去40間?我給委員報告。你用這樣擺脫,我告訴你嘛。 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
340.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
351.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
埃中的實驗室他就同時採集了40張碼﹖不是同一批檢驗﹖不是同一批﹖但是不是單一的試鋼﹖一鋼為你同鋼﹖同鋼﹖不是你那間40間的專台中心那一鋼騙下來﹖有40的罵聘就對了﹖大台上這包出事 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
363.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
365.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
不然我問委員請問師傅特魯是對一大塊應對師傅特魯就是只有在實驗室有 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
389.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
392.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
你講實驗室進入你是講經過海關、財政部入來講實驗室有採購?對阿找書的你有沒有人? |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
403.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
421.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我告訴你,臺灣遭受的東西奇奇怪怪的,大家也有?沒有人遭受西部特樓啦。你知道西部特樓進口多少?西部特樓進口789迷你咕咾,迷你咕咾是多少?連一公克都沒有喔。一公克都沒有。阿均去24個時間尺,請問每一個時間尺有多少?西部特樓可以合成嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
425.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
425.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
所以﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
457.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
479.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我跟您講今天沒有人要任何人負責,討告未了。第一個,臺中室宴出包括本黨所有的委員,沒有一個人叫什麼人要下台,沒有。我沒有要叫人下台,我沒有要叫人下台。幾年臺黨好棒棒,現在臺黨好棒棒。 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
485.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
500.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
其實你們可以說什麼?你們可以說因為民眾對台糖信賴所以租價拍賣還有92塊、93塊對不對?可以這樣說的嗎?我知道你意思是本身的地貿在幾年前的年齡是90點多好來 你就說因為 你們還有補充說因為鄉親對台糖信賴嘛 好來現在落到幾塊你知不知道? |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
513.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
533.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
八十六點四平均這幾天幾年多?這兩天有到八十二月你知不知道?有到八十三這樣現在算這兩天總要兇庸對台湯不信賴就對了沒有這兩天下去是年節之後的買氣下降在打水的時候當然有時候每次委員講都沒講你對他們對他們沒關係我剛才也是這樣講喔?我剛才有在跟你們聽啦你看看 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
542.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
567.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
阿放大一點,右上角這個齁,這間地下是這樣齁,這間地下起起落落後,在2023年的6月7日屠宰。幾年齁,幾年的落後才一台。大分缺。因為這台齁,跟我們蔡奇亞的溫體珠不一樣。對。那溫體珠呢,它的價格比較好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
569.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
570.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我一再回來我血本無歸嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
599.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
606.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
所以一般這兩棟屠宰場大概會比這個牌價低個兩塊錢你體型差一點皮差一點我都收了因為他可以加工這塊是梅花肉照你講是蠻不錯吃的 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
629.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
658.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
可是6月7號屠宰他6月8號大分切就是說比較好切啦因為機械切的不是人工切的他把它動到要結冰大概動到一度或零度啦再分切大塊結果他出品了出品了出品 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
659.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
662.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
那你怎麼能保證這6個月裡面沒有被汙染? |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
674.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
701.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
委員請問西部特樓在什麼地方?就是在實驗室啊。實驗室以外就沒有西部特樓,那要怎麼去污染?這是很簡單的理論嘛。污染物就是說污染物在哪裡?污染才有可能。如果檢察官像你這樣,破案一天破沒兩天。假如今天是出了人命,檢察官成辦以後就不是這種態度。我請問你,你認為我請問你? |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
704.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
724.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
台中市檢驗這個賣場他從檢驗那一天推算到上架這幾天我請問你們的單位有沒有任何一個單位去調錄影帶調那個賣場的錄影帶去審視說這一批肉過程這幾天上架以後都沒有被人家污染到 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
725.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
744.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我說這個整批肉都是同一個飼養場同一個飼料養的同一群的豬所以我們就會有叫做同批嘛所以同批我們有回收檢驗啊我檢驗都沒有啊你說如果有你如果說有所有吃一倍的東西都一定一起養性啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
750.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
757.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
在這個冰櫃拿出來檢驗的嘛齁?他抽檢嘛對不對?他好像一二抽檢一二嘛齁?一二而已啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
760.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
773.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我現在要跟你講就是說,你是不是應該去審視這個過程,他上架第三天被抽檢,這三天裡面,你有去找那間錄影館,看這個冰箱有用污染到嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
773.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
775.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
有啦你有去找嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
775.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
777.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
有啦,有抓啊。 有人扔手嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
777.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
782.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
沒有看到啊。基本上沒有嘛,這樣為什麼,你,所以因為這樣你大膽斷定, |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
786.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
786.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
實驗室汙染 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
814.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
820.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
臺灣規定臨檢出嘛是啊我選到的時候我敢可以不要發布你告訴我 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
821.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
828.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
當然不行,但是我發佈嘛,那現在一樣嘛,那辣椒現在蘇東風撿到這幾個縣市發佈什麼都有事。你的檢驗要有正確嘛,我剛才講過就是說當我們檢驗實在極低量的時候,要重複檢驗嘛。幾年了齁,你都算開26年。 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
843.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
859.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
對。對。對。對。 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
859.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
874.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
所以說每一個官司人體檢出來,我都很信任他,但是每一個官司檢出來,都請檢出,都沒有檢出喔,只有自己檢出而已啦,我要跟你講的就是這樣。本來自己檢去啦,現在只有自己檢出啦。你以為我們都嚴肅面對嗎?對喔,我們都很嚴肅面對。因為你第一次,你每次打電話說什麼,打不來,我跟你說今天全八十二三啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
891.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
916.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
他們的身分要差不多八十塊。成本啦齁。這個稍微、稍微處理就要得了解了。所以說那消息是不是要很緊張的來檢查有消息,比較來公佈。不必做沒有必要的指控嘛。但是,很簡單,就是這樣會不會造成不必要的恐慌,不會使得租價下降啊。所以檢驗正確很重要,檢驗正確很重要。 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
920.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
927.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
國民宣佈,在我們所有檢過的罷聘裡面都沒有,目前沒有刊入這個議刑授體數碼。 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
957.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
957.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
謝謝謝委員龍介 |