| IVOD_ID |
149116 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149116 |
| 日期 |
2024-02-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-1-1 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期第1次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
立法院第11屆第1會期第1次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-02-20T15:34:09+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-02-20T16:05:16+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:31:07 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1642863e6d7b33d4dfd67cbdeadd65e3d783c41c18e7293cf8ba9b0039caa7a69a2301c5895557e05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
洪孟楷 |
| 委員發言時間 |
15:34:09 - 16:05:16 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-02-20T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第1會期第1次會議（事由：行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告並備質詢） |
| gazette.lineno |
336 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
洪委員孟楷：（15時34分）院長好，麻煩請陳建仁院長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請陳院長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
陳院長建仁：洪委員恭喜。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
洪委員孟楷：是，恭喜我連任，本席也恭喜院長續任。院長，您在2月1號總辭時，因為蔡英文總統說，還是希望您能夠續留下來，所以內閣閣員也都沒有變動。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
陳院長建仁：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
洪委員孟楷：那我想請教，蔡英文總統有講您要留到什麼時候嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
陳院長建仁：我有跟她表達說，520以後我想回中央研究院去繼續我最愛的…… |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
洪委員孟楷：5月20號，因為剛好也是蔡英文總統的任期嘛！在這一個多月的時間，請教新當選的賴清德總統當選人有沒有找你聊過續留行政院長的問題？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
陳院長建仁：沒有。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
洪委員孟楷：有沒有跟您請教、有沒有建議新內閣閣揆的問題？ |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
陳院長建仁：也沒有。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
洪委員孟楷：賴清德總統當選人跟您都不會請教這些事情？ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
陳院長建仁：我不曉得欸！目前沒有！ |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
洪委員孟楷：都沒有找你聊過？ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
陳院長建仁：沒有。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
洪委員孟楷：所以您認為賴清德他現在就閣揆是心有定見了，不會找您？還是說你自己沒有意願？還是說他覺得您的意見不重要？ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
陳院長建仁：我想我不是賴副總統、我不是總統，所以我沒有辦法回答。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
洪委員孟楷：很奇怪，媒體報導都有講，民進黨政府算是、等於是第一個民選總統之後，在8年任期之後，又再持續執政的政府。 |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
陳院長建仁：對，就是在中華民國…… |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
洪委員孟楷：您是行政院院長，也算是我們中華民國最高的行政首長，結果新任的總統當選人在這一個多月都完全不重視您的意見？ |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
陳院長建仁：我們有討論很多政務的事情，但是沒有討論到你剛才問的這些事。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
洪委員孟楷：都沒有討論到人事，是不是？ |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
陳院長建仁：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
洪委員孟楷：好。既然如此，我想您剛剛也提到，就是520可能您就有意要離開，可是現在到520還有三個多月，要做事一定也可以做非常多的事情。 |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
陳院長建仁：當然，我們戰戰兢兢、全力以赴。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
洪委員孟楷：而且我相信您也一定是在位一天，就是要認真工作一天。 |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
陳院長建仁：沒有錯，這是我的原則。 |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
洪委員孟楷：2016年，當時的張善政院長，在一百多天的時間，臨危受命，但是卻讓國人也看到了，確實是有為有守，也通過了非常多福國利民的政策，所以本席當然也期待無論你任期多久，我們都一定兢兢業業地為臺灣、為中華民國來打拼。 |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
陳院長建仁：這是我現在做的事。 |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
洪委員孟楷：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[29][1] |
接下來，本席就會針對時事、人事跟法條的部分來跟您請教，也請您可以直接地跟本席來做回答。院長，請教一下食安的部分，這一次的瘦肉精事件為什麼會沸沸揚揚，最主要的原因是因為當初地方政府在查出有這樣一個瘦肉精，並且也認為這個非常重要，可是我們看到衛福部次長居然質疑地方為什麼急於公布，後來地方實驗室、中央實驗室也都查到確實有殘留瘦肉精，這點是事實嘛，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
陳院長建仁：同一塊豬肉，對！ |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
洪委員孟楷：我們要請教，地方政府依食安法發布、來去做一個告知，到底何錯之有？ |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
陳院長建仁：我想很重要的是，在食品安全…… |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
洪委員孟楷：地方政府有沒有錯？ |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
陳院長建仁：我就講科學上的部分，科學上如果我們發現一個肉品含有很低很低量的西布特羅，而且我們也瞭解西布特羅就只有在少數實驗室才有，也沒有進入到食物鏈…… |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
洪委員孟楷：但是院長，我是想請教地方政府在這件事情上面，地方政府有沒有錯？ |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
陳院長建仁：我就是接著要講…… |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
洪委員孟楷：為國人把關食安…… |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
陳院長建仁：在這麼低量的時候，應該要對於他所採取的檢體再多找一些來double check這樣一個情況，因為當我們發布一個消息並不是很百分之百sure的時候，也會引起民眾的恐慌，所以在標準作業的流程當中，如果我…… |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
洪委員孟楷：要驗出幾次、要查多少、多廣、多寬才能夠發布？請教院長，現在有沒有一個明確的指示跟標準？ |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
陳院長建仁：最起碼那一塊肉、那個樣本以外，應該還有其他的樣本，但是他一直檢驗的都是同一包豬肉的情形。 |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
洪委員孟楷：但是食安法現在是怎麼規定的？院長，我想這個是就事論事、依法論法，不管是基層的公務人員或是高階的公務人員，應該都是依法行政。本席現在只想就教您，食安法現在有沒有規範？ |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
陳院長建仁：這就是所謂的標準作業流程，這是標準作業流程，並沒有規範那麼細。 |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
洪委員孟楷：沒有規範那麼細，沒關係。院長，本席只想請教您，所以在這個事件裡面，依法公布的地方政府，他們依法公布；中央政府也做後續的一個檢視，也確實有驗出瘦肉精。 |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
陳院長建仁：那一塊豬肉。 |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
洪委員孟楷：是，所以地方政府到底有沒有錯？ |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
陳院長建仁：我想地方政府應該在這一件事情上，進一步去瞭解，在其他的檢驗、877個樣本都沒有的情況下…… |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
洪委員孟楷：所以現在院長您是在下行政指導，未來地方政府除了依法以外，還要再如同你這邊的行政指導嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
陳院長建仁：不是我講的行政指導，而是這是科學的證據，要拿出來確實在食物鏈裡面…… |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
洪委員孟楷：科學的證據就是地方政府跟中央政府都有驗出瘦肉精，不是嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
陳院長建仁：但只有一個樣品有瘦肉精…… |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
洪委員孟楷：院長，雖然你一直強調，但本席現在要告訴您的是，事實就是事實…… |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
陳院長建仁：但是還有更重要的事實…… |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
洪委員孟楷：到底地方政府乃至中央政府需不需要依法行政？ |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
陳院長建仁：還有更重要的事實，還有更重要的事實……任何食品受污染的時候，很重要的就是溯源管理，對不對？我們就溯源，到底…… |
| gazette.blocks[55][0] |
洪委員孟楷：如果沒有公布，我們怎麼有辦法再繼續？不管是中央或是地方…… |
| gazette.blocks[56][0] |
陳院長建仁：在臺灣789毫克的西布特羅，就像1CC的水一樣的西布特羅，怎麼會去污染到這塊豬肉？這當然就需要去瞭解、需要溯源。如果有這樣的科學證據時，我們就需要瞭解會不會是在檢驗過程當中…… |
| gazette.blocks[57][0] |
洪委員孟楷：院長，本席想要提醒您，到目前為止國內都禁止使用瘦肉精！ |
| gazette.blocks[58][0] |
陳院長建仁：當然！而且西布特羅…… |
| gazette.blocks[59][0] |
洪委員孟楷：是，也因此地方政府依則來做、依法公布。我還是要再次強調，食安法在那邊，不管地方政府或中央政府都用最高標準來做檢驗，到底有沒有錯？ |
| gazette.blocks[60][0] |
陳院長建仁：現在問題是，很微量的時候…… |
| gazette.blocks[61][0] |
洪委員孟楷：微量就不算數嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[62][0] |
陳院長建仁：當然！微量就很可能是在操作檢驗的過程當中……需要再double check，這是所有科學家、所有檢驗者……我是做科學實驗的，我很清楚…… |
| gazette.blocks[63][0] |
洪委員孟楷：院長，這樣很難自圓其說！ |
| gazette.blocks[64][0] |
陳院長建仁：這微量的0.002 ppm是多少呢？0.002ppm是十億分之一…… |
| gazette.blocks[65][0] |
洪委員孟楷：是不是有反覆查驗？ |
| gazette.blocks[66][0] |
陳院長建仁：對，除反覆查驗以外，也要反覆對不同樣本做檢驗，這就是科學！ |
| gazette.blocks[67][0] |
洪委員孟楷：院長，要有一樣的標準，所以不應該對不同事情有不同的標準。法在那邊，不管地方政府或中央政府都應該依法行政！ |
| gazette.blocks[68][0] |
陳院長建仁：沒有錯。 |
| gazette.blocks[69][0] |
洪委員孟楷：依法行政是不是我們最高的普世價值？ |
| gazette.blocks[70][0] |
陳院長建仁：當然是，但依法行政要有科學證據…… |
| gazette.blocks[71][0] |
洪委員孟楷：好，院長，我再請教你…… |
| gazette.blocks[72][0] |
陳院長建仁：要有確實的科學證據。 |
| gazette.blocks[73][0] |
洪委員孟楷：剛剛也有一些委員…… |
| gazette.blocks[74][0] |
陳院長建仁：盧市長也認為這是單一事件…… |
| gazette.blocks[75][0] |
洪委員孟楷：院長，剛剛也有委員請教您有關6月開始中央政府又要頒布所謂的赴陸禁團令…… |
| gazette.blocks[76][0] |
陳院長建仁：沒有所謂的禁團令，禁團令是你講的！ |
| gazette.blocks[77][0] |
洪委員孟楷：是媒體報導，也是行政院都已經有講到的，觀光署也跳出來講適用發展觀光條例第五十三條…… |
| gazette.blocks[78][0] |
陳院長建仁：在COVID-19這一段期間禁止我們的旅行業者組團赴大陸旅遊，但在去年8月時已經降級了，我們就沒有這樣的……我們那時候也開始規劃，讓兩岸之間可以有旅遊團的交流，所以當時有這樣一個規劃計劃。我們也一直盼望著兩岸之間能夠有健康有序的雙向交流，因此當時也讓旅行業者可以開始招募團客，而他們也確實開始招募。可是我們發現到現在為止，一直沒有得到善意的回應，再加上M503航線…… |
| gazette.blocks[79][0] |
洪委員孟楷：這些您剛剛都已經提過，本席是想請教，為何現在又講6月要限制旅遊業者組團到中國大陸？ |
| gazette.blocks[80][0] |
陳院長建仁：現在我們是暫停這項規劃計劃，但很重要的就是，如果我們有得到善意的回應，那我們…… |
| gazette.blocks[81][0] |
洪委員孟楷：院長，你是說如果在這段期間有善意回應的話，可能又會考慮再鬆綁，是不是這樣？ |
| gazette.blocks[82][0] |
陳院長建仁：我們是暫緩計劃……當然這個計畫就繼續執行…… |
| gazette.blocks[83][0] |
洪委員孟楷：我先請教，第一，暫緩這個計劃是誰的指示？ |
| gazette.blocks[84][0] |
陳院長建仁：這是我們大家討論出來的結果。 |
| gazette.blocks[85][0] |
洪委員孟楷：是院長？部長？還是觀光署署長？ |
| gazette.blocks[86][0] |
陳院長建仁：是整個執行團隊、執政團隊…… |
| gazette.blocks[87][0] |
洪委員孟楷：所用的法令依據……也就是當時講出暫緩計劃的法源依據在哪裡？ |
| gazette.blocks[88][0] |
陳院長建仁：發展觀光條例第六十六條與第五十三條。 |
| gazette.blocks[89][0] |
洪委員孟楷：第五十三條規定的是什麼？ |
| gazette.blocks[90][0] |
陳院長建仁：我請…… |
| gazette.blocks[91][0] |
洪委員孟楷：觀光業損害國家利益？ |
| gazette.blocks[92][0] |
王部長國材：損害國家利益。 |
| gazette.blocks[93][0] |
洪委員孟楷：是不是？ |
| gazette.blocks[94][0] |
王部長國材：跟委員報告，第一，觀光署是一個旅遊業的主管機關，按照旅行業管理規則可以做管理監督。至於管理監督就配合整個……就是沒有善意往來的政策，就用發展觀光條例第五十三條來處理…… |
| gazette.blocks[95][0] |
洪委員孟楷：部長，我非常理解，畢竟過去四年我在交通委員會跟您有非常多的共事。現在拉回來我要請教院長的是，很多人形容……即便是您剛剛所提，陸方沒有足夠的善意，但很多觀光、旅遊、住宿、餐飲、運輸業者大家都覺得這是民進黨政府打小孩給別人看！明明是對方對我們沒有善意，結果我們居然是拿自己的旅遊業者來開刀，我們要求自己的旅遊業者不能有組團的行為，而且用一個非常大的帽子，第五十三條規範的是傷害國家利益以及玷辱國家榮譽…… |
| gazette.blocks[96][0] |
陳院長建仁：委員，我覺得…… |
| gazette.blocks[97][0] |
洪委員孟楷：所以這一點你不會覺得是會讓觀光旅遊業者…… |
| gazette.blocks[98][0] |
陳院長建仁：我覺得雙方沒有互動的交流是傷害了國家利益很重大喔，我們一年，我們疫前到大陸去是八百多億，疫後是七百七十幾億…… |
| gazette.blocks[99][0] |
洪委員孟楷：所以3月開始到5月過去就不會傷害國家利益嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[100][0] |
陳院長建仁：但是因為當時我們也跟業者，請他開始組團，我們為了他們已經組團的部分，所以我們讓他從現在到5月底以前都能夠出團啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[101][0] |
洪委員孟楷：是，所以…… |
| gazette.blocks[102][0] |
陳院長建仁：但是最重要的就是800億的來臺觀光…… |
| gazette.blocks[103][0] |
洪委員孟楷：這就是邏輯問題！院長，我只想請教，到底組團前往中國大陸有沒有傷及國家利益？ |
| gazette.blocks[104][0] |
陳院長建仁：最主要的國家利益……他沒有來的關係嘛！如果像我剛才講的，包含…… |
| gazette.blocks[105][0] |
洪委員孟楷：我們組團如果有傷害國家利益，那麼3月到5月開放的原因在哪裡？ |
| gazette.blocks[106][0] |
陳院長建仁：我們開放到大陸去有800億，疫後是七百七十幾億，那我們會…… |
| gazette.blocks[107][0] |
洪委員孟楷：如果沒有傷害國家利益，6月要禁止的理由在哪裡？院長你沒辦法自圓其說。 |
| gazette.blocks[108][0] |
邱主任委員太三：報告委員，我想8月23號…… |
| gazette.blocks[109][0] |
洪委員孟楷：主委，我沒有請你講話，我現在質詢的是陳院長。 |
| gazette.blocks[110][0] |
邱主任委員太三：對，我就是要回答…… |
| gazette.blocks[111][0] |
洪委員孟楷：我現在質詢的是陳院長，除非你想要520的時候來……負責，不然現在就讓陳院長回答。 |
| gazette.blocks[112][0] |
邱主任委員太三：8月23號是我們開的會議，所以我可以來完整地敘述給委員瞭解。 |
| gazette.blocks[113][0] |
洪委員孟楷：主委，抱歉，剛剛院長沒有辦法清楚的回答這個問題。 |
| gazette.blocks[114][0] |
邱主任委員太三：因為…… |
| gazette.blocks[115][0] |
洪委員孟楷：本席時間有限，要進行下一題，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[115][1] |
再來，院長，我想請教…… |
| gazette.blocks[116][0] |
陳院長建仁：你沒有給他回答，那…… |
| gazette.blocks[117][0] |
洪委員孟楷：這不是本席沒有給他回答的空間，而是本席現在請教的是行政首長，因為您剛剛有提到，您剛剛有提到這個命令也不是觀光署一個說了算，而是你們全體的共識…… |
| gazette.blocks[118][0] |
陳院長建仁：對啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[119][0] |
洪委員孟楷：但是現在本席請教…… |
| gazette.blocks[120][0] |
邱主任委員太三：對啊，所以8月23號是我們…… |
| gazette.blocks[121][0] |
洪委員孟楷：本席請教，現在很多觀光業者說520可能要上街抗議，請教觀光業者上街抗議要找誰？ |
| gazette.blocks[122][0] |
陳院長建仁：委員，我覺得這件事情業者應該要瞭解，雙方之所以沒有辦法很健康有序的組團進行互相的觀光交流，主要問題就是因為中國並沒有開放…… |
| gazette.blocks[123][0] |
洪委員孟楷：部長，誰下的命令說6月要暫緩？誰下的命令說6月要暫緩？ |
| gazette.blocks[124][0] |
陳院長建仁：這是我們討論的結果。 |
| gazette.blocks[125][0] |
洪委員孟楷：誰下的命令用發展觀光條例第五十三條要求業者不能在6月之後再組團去中國大陸？ |
| gazette.blocks[126][0] |
邱主任委員太三：委員，我想剛剛…… |
| gazette.blocks[127][0] |
洪委員孟楷：誰下的命令？ |
| gazette.blocks[128][0] |
邱主任委員太三：8月23號所做的公布…… |
| gazette.blocks[129][0] |
洪委員孟楷：主委，你沒有回答是誰下的命令？ |
| gazette.blocks[130][0] |
邱主任委員太三：就是雙方對等開放，我們開放的時間點就是它開放的那一天。 |
| gazette.blocks[131][0] |
洪委員孟楷：主委，您可以回答本席，不要再回顧歷史了，你一直講去年8月的事情…… |
| gazette.blocks[132][0] |
邱主任委員太三：好，這是第一個。第二個，如果只有我們單向的去…… |
| gazette.blocks[133][0] |
洪委員孟楷：本席現在請教您的是，今年6月的事情！ |
| gazette.blocks[134][0] |
邱主任委員太三：我們每年讓它賺了八百多億，但我們國內的業者沒有辦法賺八百多億！ |
| gazette.blocks[135][0] |
洪委員孟楷：院長，能不能制止一下！現在行政官員是完全聽不懂本席的問題嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[136][0] |
邱主任委員太三：有，所以我在回答你的問題啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[137][0] |
洪委員孟楷：本席現在請教的是陳建仁院長。 |
| gazette.blocks[138][0] |
邱主任委員太三：但是因為我剛剛講，那個開會是我去的啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[139][0] |
洪委員孟楷：院長，我要再請教，您剛剛有提到您的任期有可能就到5月20號，只到5月20號任期的行政首長可以決定6月之後的命令嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[140][0] |
陳院長建仁：我想當然可以啊！因為這個決議是我們行政團隊的決議…… |
| gazette.blocks[141][0] |
洪委員孟楷：可是您剛剛也提到，您沒有跟賴清德總統當選人有討論過這樣的命令，所以…… |
| gazette.blocks[142][0] |
陳院長建仁：但是我做到什麼時候…… |
| gazette.blocks[143][0] |
洪委員孟楷：對於這樣的命令，賴清德總統當選人也同意接受嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[144][0] |
陳院長建仁：我做到什麼時候，就由我負責到什麼時候。 |
| gazette.blocks[145][0] |
洪委員孟楷：所以如果你只做到520，你就只能負責到520？ |
| gazette.blocks[146][0] |
陳院長建仁：那當然…… |
| gazette.blocks[147][0] |
洪委員孟楷：那521新任閣揆上任後把你推翻，你也覺得無所謂？ |
| gazette.blocks[148][0] |
陳院長建仁：我想我不能回答假設性的問題，但是很重要的，剛才你問這個決策是我們行政團隊討論出來的結果…… |
| gazette.blocks[149][0] |
洪委員孟楷：那本席要請教你怎麼可以在520任期之後就決定6月臺灣觀光旅遊業的發展呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[150][0] |
陳院長建仁：所以我剛才講過，如果大陸釋出善意，這樣一個暫停的計畫是可以提前…… |
| gazette.blocks[151][0] |
洪委員孟楷：院長，國人都在看！ |
| gazette.blocks[152][0] |
陳院長建仁：對啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[153][0] |
洪委員孟楷：國人想強調的是……我還是再次回來，今天早上我的國是論壇特別提到，希望我們是拚民生、拚民生、拚民生，降低政治意識形態，好好地拚經濟、拚民生。 |
| gazette.blocks[154][0] |
陳院長建仁：我們沒有意識形態，我們就是在拚民生，七百億的觀光…… |
| gazette.blocks[155][0] |
洪委員孟楷：飯店、旅遊、住宿、觀光、餐飲及運輸業者能不能在今年7月的時候也能盼到春暖花開…… |
| gazette.blocks[156][0] |
陳院長建仁：我們也希望，我們盼望…… |
| gazette.blocks[157][0] |
洪委員孟楷：有更多的市場，這個在你的一念之間。 |
| gazette.blocks[158][0] |
陳院長建仁：我們盼望啊！我們盼望春暖花開，兩岸有很好的交流。 |
| gazette.blocks[159][0] |
洪委員孟楷：院長，可是您剛剛講的真的不是這樣！院長，我請教…… |
| gazette.blocks[160][0] |
陳院長建仁：只要對方釋出善意，我們很希望春暖花開有很好的雙向交流啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[161][0] |
洪委員孟楷：院長，我現在要進入下一題，因為您這個問題沒辦法回答。 |
| gazette.blocks[161][1] |
院長，請教一下，內閣官員的言行也都是您這邊必須認同或是您要負責的，對吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[162][0] |
陳院長建仁：對，他們如果有做對的地方我稱讚，做錯的地方我會請他們改進。 |
| gazette.blocks[163][0] |
洪委員孟楷：那我請教，有部長直接跟地方首長來，我覺得是隔空對嗆，講地方首長說他不知道是醉了、瘋了還是嗑藥，你認同這樣的講法嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[164][0] |
陳院長建仁：我想這一件事情可能在所有的事情、事證上…… |
| gazette.blocks[165][0] |
洪委員孟楷：您認同部會首長，你的部會首長跟我們22縣市的縣市首長，無論他們有沒有私人恩怨…… |
| gazette.blocks[166][0] |
陳院長建仁：我當然希望中央跟地方有更和諧的…… |
| gazette.blocks[167][0] |
洪委員孟楷：無論他們過去有沒有選戰交手，但重點是您認同你的部會首長直接在媒體上公開說那個地方首長可能是瘋了、醉了還是嗑藥？ |
| gazette.blocks[168][0] |
陳院長建仁：這可能是氣話啦。 |
| gazette.blocks[169][0] |
洪委員孟楷：可能是氣話？所以你不認同這樣的話？ |
| gazette.blocks[170][0] |
陳院長建仁：我覺得應該要更加和諧是更好。 |
| gazette.blocks[171][0] |
洪委員孟楷：確實啊！而且本席也認為說如果真的有這樣的話，除非你有…… |
| gazette.blocks[172][0] |
陳院長建仁：但是對方也要和諧。 |
| gazette.blocks[173][0] |
洪委員孟楷：除非你有什麼真憑實據，否則這樣子根本就是人身攻擊跟侮辱嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[174][0] |
陳院長建仁：但是我相信這是有真憑實據啦…… |
| gazette.blocks[175][0] |
洪委員孟楷：來，這樣子我也想…… |
| gazette.blocks[176][0] |
陳院長建仁：這是有真憑實據啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[177][0] |
洪委員孟楷：你相信有證據？ |
| gazette.blocks[178][0] |
陳院長建仁：這個事實的來龍去脈…… |
| gazette.blocks[179][0] |
洪委員孟楷：來、來、來、來、來，院長，部長有沒有跟您講說他有任何的真憑實據？ |
| gazette.blocks[180][0] |
陳院長建仁：這件事情的來龍去脈我想大家都很清楚，我講的是這件事情…… |
| gazette.blocks[181][0] |
洪委員孟楷：大家都很清楚，所以我才會覺得更加訝異的是怎麼會您的部會首長居然公開講有地方首長是醉了、瘋了還是嗑藥！ |
| gazette.blocks[182][0] |
陳院長建仁：我說這句話是應該要…… |
| gazette.blocks[183][0] |
洪委員孟楷：所以是不是應該收回？ |
| gazette.blocks[184][0] |
陳院長建仁：我覺得，我剛才講嘛，那是在講氣話，但是我剛才講的有真憑實據的是在辯論那個NET的情況…… |
| gazette.blocks[185][0] |
洪委員孟楷：院長，中華民國政府或是中華民國的政府官員可以這樣隨便對媒體講氣話嗎？尤其是對地方首長。您剛才講說大家要做事，您剛才講說希望我們一齊努力來打拚，結果放任你的部會首長跟地方政府……是因為不同黨派、是因為有私人恩怨，就可以這樣對立…… |
| gazette.blocks[186][0] |
陳院長建仁：我想不是黨派的關係，是那一個NET事件的關係，我覺得是…… |
| gazette.blocks[187][0] |
洪委員孟楷：院長，我奉勸您，因為現在進入的是基隆市政府跟民間企業的官司，我奉勸您不用在這個時候跳入或是加諸自己的判斷，因為司法程序有司法程序要走…… |
| gazette.blocks[188][0] |
陳院長建仁：對，我同意。 |
| gazette.blocks[189][0] |
洪委員孟楷：院長，今天本席有看到另外一個部分是媒體報導有提到的緊急應變隊，就是我們全臺會成立每隊約25人的自主緊急應變隊，本席馬上看到之後覺得很訝異，請教這跟現在的民防組織有什麼關係？ |
| gazette.blocks[190][0] |
陳院長建仁：我想…… |
| gazette.blocks[191][0] |
洪委員孟楷：它是不是一樣的？ |
| gazette.blocks[192][0] |
陳院長建仁：我想緊急應變隊這個很重要，我們臺灣…… |
| gazette.blocks[193][0] |
洪委員孟楷：我先請教確認一下，它跟現在我們現有的民防組織有沒有相關、重疊？ |
| gazette.blocks[194][0] |
林部長右昌：它不太一樣，我在這邊跟委員報告一下…… |
| gazette.blocks[195][0] |
洪委員孟楷：院長，您的團隊我尊重，他們上來是您的幕僚單位，可以給您做提點，但是不是本席在請教院長結果是他們在回答，這樣好像是每個人都想要篡您的位，我覺得這樣不好。 |
| gazette.blocks[196][0] |
陳院長建仁：我想我們團隊一向合作無間…… |
| gazette.blocks[197][0] |
洪委員孟楷：這樣不好！ |
| gazette.blocks[198][0] |
陳院長建仁：我們的團隊一向合作無間。 |
| gazette.blocks[199][0] |
洪委員孟楷：如同我們在委員會的時候，部會首長在接受備詢的時候，這些幕僚單位上來是可以咬耳朵，但是絕對不是代替你發言，甚至沒有經過主席同意就直接站上備詢台。院長，你可以同意嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[200][0] |
陳院長建仁：我想是這樣子啦！剛才講的這個緊急應變隊，這樣的一個計畫我們是參考美國跟新加坡的經驗，主要是以火災搶救、緊急救護跟輕型救援為主，為什麼這個很重要？因為我們大家都知道，現在在氣候變遷的情況下，各種災難會比較多的發生，所以我們需要讓民間能夠組織這樣的緊急應變隊，你看日本發生震災的時候，是不是緊急應變隊的反應也很好…… |
| gazette.blocks[201][0] |
洪委員孟楷：院長，本席不反對說因為現在有氣候變遷、極端氣候…… |
| gazette.blocks[202][0] |
陳院長建仁：地震、水災…… |
| gazette.blocks[203][0] |
洪委員孟楷：也因此我們需要投入更多，但是問題來了，第一，本席剛剛請教這個緊急應變隊跟我們現在的民防組織有沒有不同，您講的是不同嘛，對不對？不同？好。民防組織現在成立的法源依據是什麼？是民防法。 |
| gazette.blocks[204][0] |
陳院長建仁：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[205][0] |
洪委員孟楷：民防法裡面有相關的規定，包括組訓、中央主管機關、地方主管機關，以及如果隊員在執勤中受災、受傷還有所謂的撫卹，還有規定如果執勤時不到的話可以有罰則等等相關，那緊急應變隊呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[206][0] |
陳院長建仁：對，這跟民防沒有關係，這是根據…… |
| gazette.blocks[207][0] |
洪委員孟楷：緊急應變隊的法源依據在哪裡？ |
| gazette.blocks[208][0] |
陳院長建仁：因為它最主要的目的是消防法…… |
| gazette.blocks[209][0] |
洪委員孟楷：請你先直接回答問題，緊急應變隊的法源依據在哪裡？ |
| gazette.blocks[210][0] |
陳院長建仁：消防…… |
| gazette.blocks[211][0] |
洪委員孟楷：消防法？ |
| gazette.blocks[212][0] |
陳院長建仁：這是一個民間的組織，這個民間…… |
| gazette.blocks[213][0] |
洪委員孟楷：緊急應變隊的法源依據是消防法？ |
| gazette.blocks[214][0] |
陳院長建仁：民間企業要有這樣的防災能力嘛，所以我們…… |
| gazette.blocks[215][0] |
洪委員孟楷：院長，回答問題，緊急應變隊的法源依據是什麼？ |
| gazette.blocks[216][0] |
陳院長建仁：那我們請部長說明，可以嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[217][0] |
洪委員孟楷：不是，緊急應變隊的法源依據您回答不出來？ |
| gazette.blocks[218][0] |
林部長右昌：委員，是不是讓我來說明好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[219][0] |
洪委員孟楷：緊急應變隊的中央主管機關是誰？緊急應變隊的中央主管機關是誰？ |
| gazette.blocks[220][0] |
陳院長建仁：內政部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[221][0] |
洪委員孟楷：那緊急應變隊的地方主管機關是誰？ |
| gazette.blocks[222][0] |
林部長右昌：這個，委員，你可能搞錯了…… |
| gazette.blocks[223][0] |
洪委員孟楷：搞錯？抱歉，部長，我糾正你，不要隨便在備詢臺上講說委員搞錯，因為委員的質詢都是依法有據…… |
| gazette.blocks[224][0] |
林部長右昌：那是不是…… |
| gazette.blocks[225][0] |
洪委員孟楷：本席現在在講的是民防組織是有三讀通過的民防法為依據，民防法裡面講得非常清楚，中央主管機關是內政部，地方主管機關是各縣市政府。但是本席剛剛詢問了，你的緊急應變隊到現在定義不明，你的法源依據在哪裡？不知道。你的中央主管機關是誰？不知道。地方主管機關是誰？不知道。甚至如果緊急應變隊有因為參與緊急應變而造成天災人禍受傷傷亡的話，你的撫卹機制是什麼？民防組織有民防法，所以是可以依法來賠償或是撫卹，但是你的緊急應變隊沒有，院長。 |
| gazette.blocks[226][0] |
陳院長建仁：這個就是…… |
| gazette.blocks[227][0] |
洪委員孟楷：是不是應該先把緊急應變的條文送進立法院，讓立法院這邊來訂立，三讀通過之後再去組織，還是說這是一個黑機關？還是你們用哪裡的預算、哪裡的資源去做緊急應變隊？ |
| gazette.blocks[228][0] |
陳院長建仁：政府在施政時、需要有法律規範的時候，我們當然會把法律送到立法院來，但是如果對於這一些防災的緊急應變的時候…… |
| gazette.blocks[229][0] |
洪委員孟楷：那這些緊急應變隊的中央主管機關是誰？ |
| gazette.blocks[230][0] |
陳院長建仁：可以利用計畫方案的方式來做施政的依據，不…… |
| gazette.blocks[231][0] |
洪委員孟楷：緊急應變隊的預算預計會花多少？ |
| gazette.blocks[232][0] |
陳院長建仁：緊急應變隊的預算，我…… |
| gazette.blocks[233][0] |
洪委員孟楷：1年會編列多少？ |
| gazette.blocks[234][0] |
陳院長建仁：我現在不是很清楚，我再跟…… |
| gazette.blocks[235][0] |
洪委員孟楷：沒有規劃？ |
| gazette.blocks[236][0] |
陳院長建仁：我們現在有報行政院來。 |
| gazette.blocks[237][0] |
洪委員孟楷：你的緊急應變隊將來會有320隊、8,000人，5年後全臺灣遍布25人的緊急應變隊，結果現在你不知道你的預算要花多少？ |
| gazette.blocks[238][0] |
陳院長建仁：對，這個是在中程計畫裡面。 |
| gazette.blocks[239][0] |
洪委員孟楷：那預算要花多少？ |
| gazette.blocks[240][0] |
陳院長建仁：預算我們還要審議啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[241][0] |
洪委員孟楷：不是，你自己心目中預算要花多少？ |
| gazette.blocks[242][0] |
陳院長建仁：這個我因為不是主管的單位，我們是不是讓部長來回復？ |
| gazette.blocks[243][0] |
洪委員孟楷：院長，我想這就是我為什麼要請教你「緊急應變隊」這一個名詞以及為什麼媒體那麼關注，因為是寫在你的施政報告欸。換言之，你的施政報告2月1號送來立法院，裡面寫的東西都是你想做的，結果本席現在問你那麼多，法源依據在哪裡？預算在哪裡？員額在哪裡？主管機關在哪裡？結果你全都不知道。 |
| gazette.blocks[244][0] |
陳院長建仁：那個是很細的內容、那是很細的內容。 |
| gazette.blocks[245][0] |
洪委員孟楷：那你的施政報告是別人幫你寫的，是不是？ |
| gazette.blocks[246][0] |
陳院長建仁：當然不是，都我自己看過。 |
| gazette.blocks[247][0] |
洪委員孟楷：還是你矇著頭過的？還是說你說比較細節的部分你沒有看，反正你只抓大方向？ |
| gazette.blocks[248][0] |
陳院長建仁：對，有些原則上我是這樣抓。 |
| gazette.blocks[249][0] |
洪委員孟楷：院長，本席真的希望好好地拴緊螺絲。 |
| gazette.blocks[249][1] |
再來，想跟你請教人事的部分，NCC委員依法7月31號會有4位委員的任期到期，依法3個月前會請行政院長提名，對不對？因為520你才會卸任嘛，那請教4月30號以前你會提名4位委員？ |
| gazette.blocks[250][0] |
陳院長建仁：當然，依法我一定會提來。 |
| gazette.blocks[251][0] |
洪委員孟楷：好。那現在有沒有心目中的理想名單了？ |
| gazette.blocks[252][0] |
陳院長建仁：我們會好好地來研議怎麼樣從一個具有電信、資訊、傳播、法律或者…… |
| gazette.blocks[253][0] |
洪委員孟楷：因為本席看到新聞是說……，好，院長…… |
| gazette.blocks[254][0] |
陳院長建仁：這些專業學識或者實務經驗的人裡面，你聽我回答完，然後由同一的這些人組織一個委員會，我們來選出適當的人來推薦給大院。 |
| gazette.blocks[255][0] |
洪委員孟楷：你說跟誰組織委員會？ |
| gazette.blocks[256][0] |
陳院長建仁：我們內部會來看什麼樣的…… |
| gazette.blocks[257][0] |
洪委員孟楷：內部會有一個NCC委員的組織…… |
| gazette.blocks[258][0] |
陳院長建仁：不是。 |
| gazette.blocks[259][0] |
洪委員孟楷：審議委員會？ |
| gazette.blocks[260][0] |
陳院長建仁：我們內部會提名嘛，我們要提名給大院，所以我們在提名的過程當中會有一些…… |
| gazette.blocks[261][0] |
洪委員孟楷：你自己會先組一個委員會，來討論說哪4位是合格的再送出來？ |
| gazette.blocks[262][0] |
陳院長建仁：是適合的人選，對。 |
| gazette.blocks[263][0] |
洪委員孟楷：好。本席看到過年期間有個新聞是，蔡英文總統跟賴清德副總統說要討論NCC的人事，避免再一片綠油油，然後期待說送來立法院的時候能夠比較順利通過…… |
| gazette.blocks[264][0] |
陳院長建仁：這個是…… |
| gazette.blocks[265][0] |
洪委員孟楷：請教你有沒有參加這個會議？ |
| gazette.blocks[266][0] |
陳院長建仁：沒有。 |
| gazette.blocks[267][0] |
洪委員孟楷：你是提名人欸！NCC的委員是行政院長提名送立法院…… |
| gazette.blocks[268][0] |
陳院長建仁：對，但是這一個新聞的正確性我不知道，這個新聞的正確性我不知道…… |
| gazette.blocks[269][0] |
洪委員孟楷：然後結果你沒有參加這樣的會議？ |
| gazette.blocks[270][0] |
陳院長建仁：這是新聞嘛！對不對？你說這是新聞。 |
| gazette.blocks[271][0] |
洪委員孟楷：所以這個新聞存不存在？這個是不是事實？ |
| gazette.blocks[272][0] |
陳院長建仁：這個要新聞查證啊，這個要問新聞單位。 |
| gazette.blocks[273][0] |
洪委員孟楷：那您看到你沒有很好奇嗎？這個明明是行政院長的權限，但是總統跟總統當選人二個人在討論，然後結果沒有跳過你，那現在你講說你的提名會是你院內自己組一個委員會，那照理講你也不用報蔡英文總統或是賴清德副總統？ |
| gazette.blocks[274][0] |
陳院長建仁：所有的部會首長的任命，我們都會跟總統來討論、請示。 |
| gazette.blocks[275][0] |
洪委員孟楷：那請教院長，在4月30日以前你會送出的4位NCC委員，您是要跟蔡總統來請教還是要跟賴清德總統當選人來請教？還是二個都請教？ |
| gazette.blocks[276][0] |
陳院長建仁：目前的情況當然是跟蔡總統請教。 |
| gazette.blocks[277][0] |
洪委員孟楷：所以你不會理賴清德總統當選人？ |
| gazette.blocks[278][0] |
陳院長建仁：蔡總統有他的政治智慧，我相信賴副總統他也應該會有所瞭解。 |
| gazette.blocks[279][0] |
洪委員孟楷：所以是院長你不願意面對賴清德總統當選人？不是，抱歉！本席並不是要見縫插針…… |
| gazette.blocks[280][0] |
陳院長建仁：我覺得你這樣講是不正確的，我覺得不需要這樣子講話。 |
| gazette.blocks[281][0] |
洪委員孟楷：院長，本席並不是要見縫插針，但是本席想知道……這是一個很嚴肅的問題，院長，這是一個很嚴肅的問題，因為國家在這3個月內不能突然間不清楚說到底誰是實權的總統或者誰是要負責任的部會首長，所以本席才會想要請教你現在的憲政體制我們到底是怎麼運行。 |
| gazette.blocks[282][0] |
陳院長建仁：實際上，我們在4月30號會提出NCC的人選。 |
| gazette.blocks[283][0] |
洪委員孟楷：在4月30號以前對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[284][0] |
陳院長建仁：對，那NCC的人選我們會尊重、會跟總統來討論，也會跟下一任的總統來一起討論適當的人選，因為畢竟NCC的人選等到了他們被任命的時候是在7月份。 |
| gazette.blocks[285][0] |
洪委員孟楷：所以提出來的人選會有蔡英文總統的認可跟賴清德總統當選人的認可？ |
| gazette.blocks[286][0] |
陳院長建仁：我會向他們報告、討論。 |
| gazette.blocks[287][0] |
洪委員孟楷：另外，我想請教，現在我們也看到很奇怪，就是在過完年之後突然間有比較偏綠的平面媒體連兩天的時間大篇幅都在攻擊、修理、批評數位發展部，您早上也有接受媒體訪問，你也有看到。 |
| gazette.blocks[288][0] |
陳院長建仁：對，數位發展部在過去的一年半…… |
| gazette.blocks[289][0] |
洪委員孟楷：您覺得在過去這一年半數位發展部表現如何？ |
| gazette.blocks[290][0] |
陳院長建仁：我覺得他們做了很多重要的工作，對於資通安全也好，或者對於智慧產業…… |
| gazette.blocks[291][0] |
洪委員孟楷：那你覺得有符合國人的期待嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[292][0] |
陳院長建仁：我想最重要的就是說在整個數位科技的發展、耕耘…… |
| gazette.blocks[293][0] |
洪委員孟楷：媒體的報導是公允還是有失公允？ |
| gazette.blocks[294][0] |
陳院長建仁：我想這個報導裡面有很多我不知道詳細的情況，但是我覺得對於…… |
| gazette.blocks[295][0] |
洪委員孟楷：那您身為院長，您不好奇在看到平面媒體針對一個部會首長這樣的時候沒有找唐部長來問一下嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[296][0] |
陳院長建仁：對這一件事情，我想是這樣講，對於數位部在過去這一年半來的努力，我確實是要表示對他們的感謝，但是因為數位科技不斷的發展，而且各個部會都和數位的發展有關係，所以…… |
| gazette.blocks[297][0] |
洪委員孟楷：院長，本席的時間有限，但是我只想提醒，為什麼國人或媒體會對數位發展部有很重要的期待，其中有一個很大的原因就是因為詐騙嘛！對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[298][0] |
陳院長建仁：對，它在詐騙方面也做了滿多的工作和貢獻，像111的識別簡訊。 |
| gazette.blocks[299][0] |
洪委員孟楷：打詐1.5從去年5月5日成立到現在，沒想到詐騙越打越詐。 |
| gazette.blocks[300][0] |
陳院長建仁：如果照全世界的趨勢來看的話…… |
| gazette.blocks[301][0] |
洪委員孟楷：去年2023年三萬七千多件的詐騙量、88億的詐騙金額又創新高，不管是案件數或是金額都創新高，你怎麼解釋？ |
| gazette.blocks[302][0] |
陳院長建仁：如果你去比較世界上其他的國家，他們詐騙的金額…… |
| gazette.blocks[303][0] |
洪委員孟楷：我們能不能自己跟自己比較？ |
| gazette.blocks[304][0] |
陳院長建仁：當然可以，照全世界的趨勢…… |
| gazette.blocks[305][0] |
洪委員孟楷：我們過去5年的案件數是節節上升、詐騙金額節節上升，我們自己跟自己比較可以嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[306][0] |
陳院長建仁：如果按照全世界的趨勢的話，它是呈倍數的增加。 |
| gazette.blocks[307][0] |
洪委員孟楷：我們能不能……要人給人、要錢給錢，就是要反詐騙，國人就是討厭詐騙，國人就是希望源頭管理，能不能有效的打詐？ |
| gazette.blocks[308][0] |
陳院長建仁：但是我今天已經講過了，有1,400個詐騙集團被發現，然後有4.7億的…… |
| gazette.blocks[309][0] |
洪委員孟楷：院長，在這3個月能不能有效的打詐？ |
| gazette.blocks[310][0] |
陳院長建仁：當然可以啊！我們全力以赴。 |
| gazette.blocks[311][0] |
洪委員孟楷：院長，您怎麼解釋去年詐騙案件屢創新高、金額屢創新高？ |
| gazette.blocks[312][0] |
陳院長建仁：我今天早上已經有解釋過。 |
| gazette.blocks[313][0] |
洪委員孟楷：這樣子算是當然可以嗎？您過去有完整的1年任期欸！ |
| gazette.blocks[314][0] |
陳院長建仁：以前的詐騙案件一定要好好的來通報，但是今天早上有委員問起有黑數的問題，當我們把黑數挖出來的時候、你成立了一個反詐騙集團的時候…… |
| gazette.blocks[315][0] |
洪委員孟楷：院長，在最後20秒我還是要利用我的時間，因為我也是非常關心體育的，剛剛莊瑞雄委員有提到，我們看到了中華男籃他們這禮拜五居然是沒有集體保險，而身為國家代表隊的運動球員，其實都應該要有合格的保險。 |
| gazette.blocks[316][0] |
陳院長建仁：這我們會推動立法。 |
| gazette.blocks[317][0] |
洪委員孟楷：我未來會提案，但是我希望我們未來代表國家隊出隊的運動員都應該要有保險，你認同嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[318][0] |
陳院長建仁：我認同啊！我們全力以赴。 |
| gazette.blocks[319][0] |
洪委員孟楷：全力以赴，那我們一起來合作，希望在這個會期裡面我們真的能夠修訂相關的法令，要求我們國家來處理，只要是代表國家出隊的國家隊的選手，都應該要有選手保險，這樣可以嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[320][0] |
陳院長建仁：我們好好研議。 |
| gazette.blocks[321][0] |
洪委員孟楷：謝謝院長。 |
| gazette.blocks[322][0] |
主席：謝謝洪委員孟楷的質詢。接下來跟院會報告，休息10分鐘。 |
| gazette.blocks[322][1] |
休息（16時5分） |
| gazette.blocks[322][2] |
繼續開會（16時15分） |
| gazette.blocks[323][0] |
主席：報告院會，現在繼續開會。 |
| gazette.blocks[323][1] |
接下來請許委員智傑質詢。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
236 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
院會-11-1-1 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
韓國瑜 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
吳思瑤 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
傅崐萁 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
莊瑞雄 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
許智傑 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
林思銘 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
22 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-02-20 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1130401 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1130401_00003 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[1] |
1130401_00004 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第 11 屆第 1 會期第 1 次會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
施政質詢
行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告並備質詢─ 進行質詢─ |
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1130401_00006 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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委員長麻煩請陳建仁院長請陳院長恭喜我連任本席也恭喜院長續任 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
30.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
49.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
院長您續留在2月1號總辭的時候蔡英文總統說因為還是希望您能夠續留下來所以內閣閣員也都沒有變動那我請教蔡英文總統有講說您要留到什麼時候嗎我有跟她表達說520以後我想回中央研究院去 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
51.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
69.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
5月20號 因為剛好也是蔡英文總統的任期那在這一個多月的時間請教新當選的賴清德總統當選人有沒有找你聊過續留行政院長的問題沒有那有沒有跟您請教過說有沒有建議新內閣閣揆的問題也沒有賴清德總統當選人跟您 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
74.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
98.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
都不會請教這些事情?我不曉得目前沒有都沒有找你聊過?沒有那所以您認為是賴清德他現在葛魁是心有定見了不會找您還是說你自己沒有意願還是說他覺得說你的意見不重要?我想這一個我不是在...很奇怪啊民進黨政府是...我不是大陸總統所以我沒有辦法回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
99.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
102.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
我們有討論很多政務的事情但是沒有討論到你剛才問的這件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
126.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
145.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
不過既然如此我想您剛也提到就是520有可能您就有意要離開可是3個多月的時間現在到520還有3個多月要做事一定也可以做非常多的事情而且我相信您也一定是在位一天就是要認真工作一天2016年當時的 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
150.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
178.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
張善政院長一百多天的時間臨為壽命但是卻讓國人也看到了確實有為有守也通過了非常多福國利民的政策所以本席當然也期待無論你任期多久我們都一定兢兢業業的為台灣為中華民國來打拼這是我現在做的事接下來本席就會針對時事人事跟法條的部分來跟您請教也請您可以直接的來跟本席來做回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
179.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
201.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
院長請教一下施安的部分這一次瘦肉精事件其實為什麼會沸沸揚揚最主要原因是因為當初地方政府在查出說有這樣的一個瘦肉精並且也認為說這個是非常重要可是我們看到衛福部次長居然講說質疑地方為什麼急於公佈 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
202.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
219.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
那後來地方實驗室 中央實驗室也都有查到確實殘留瘦肉精這一點是事實嘛 對不對那也就是我們要請教到底地方政府依食安法發布來去做一個告知合作之友 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
221.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
244.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
我想很重要的就是說在這一個施平我就講這個科學上的科學上如果我們發現一個弱品含有很低很低量的這個西部特羅的時候而且我們也了解西部特羅就只有在少數實驗室才有也沒有進入到食物鏈的食物的時候在這件事情上面地方政府有沒有錯我就是接著要講 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
244.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
245.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那要驗出幾次 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
264.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
282.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
要查多少﹑多廣﹑多寬才能夠發布請教院長現在有沒有一個明確的指示跟標準那一塊肉以那個樣本以外應該還有其他的樣本但是他一直檢驗的都是同一包的這一個豬肉的情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
282.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
303.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
實案法現在怎麼規定院長我想這個是舊式論是依法論法不管是基層的公務人員或是高階公務人員應該都是依法行政本席現在只想就教您說現在實案法現在有沒有規範這是標準作業流程沒有規範那麼細沒有規範那麼細沒關係院長本席只想請教您所以在這個事件裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
304.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
331.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
依法公佈的中央地方政府他們依法公佈中央政府也做後續的一個檢視那也確實有驗出瘦肉精那一塊豬肉是所以地方政府到底有沒有錯我想地方政府呢應該在這一件事情上進一步去了解說其他的檢驗877個樣本都沒有的情況下所以現在院長您是在向行政指導未來地方政府都要 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
332.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
356.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
除了依法以外還要在盧統領這邊行政指導嗎不是我講的行政指導而是這是科學的證據要拿出說確實在實務鏈裡面科學證據就是地方政府跟中央政府都有驗出瘦肉精不是嗎但是是只有一個樣品有瘦肉精院長您一直強調但是本席現在是要告訴您的是確實事實就是事實嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
356.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
362.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
所以我想請教依法行政到底地方政府或是中央政府需不需要依法行政 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
371.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
372.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
徐議員想要提醒您﹖到目前為止﹖我們國內 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
398.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
399.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
現在的問題就是說很微量的時候微量就不算數嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
419.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
420.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
是不是有反覆查驗? |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
440.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
457.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
對那防護查驗以外就是要有防護防護的去有不同的樣本來做檢驗啊這就是科學嘛一樣的標準不應該不同的事情有不同的標準我想法在那邊任何地方政府或中央政府都應該要依法行政 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
457.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
485.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
一法行政是不是我們最高的一個普世價值當然是但是一法行政只有科學的證據好 院長那再請教您確實的科學證據很重要剛剛也有一些委員在盧市長他也認為這是單一事件嘛院長來剛剛也有一位委員在請教您有關於說我們討論到6月開始我們中央政府又要頒布所謂的一個復路的淨團令沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
486.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
510.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
沒有所謂的進團令進團令是你講的啦是媒體報導也是我們行政院這邊都已經有講到的而且也是觀光署有跳出來講說是用觀光發展條例第53條COVID-19的這一段期間我們禁止這個我們的旅行業者組團赴大陸旅遊但是到了去年的這一個8月的時候我們就 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
511.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
511.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
521.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
546.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
團隊的旅遊團的這個交流所以當時有這樣的一個規劃計劃而這個規劃計劃我們也一直盼望著兩岸之間能夠有健康有序的這個雙向的交流所以當時也讓旅行業者來開始招募這個團客那他們確實也開始招募可是我們發現呢到現在為止到一直沒有得到上億的這樣的一個回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
547.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
573.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
再加上M503的這個韓線的這樣的一個是這些您剛都已經提過那本席只想請教到6月突然現在又講是說要限制旅遊業者去做這個組團到中國大陸那現在我們是暫停這個規劃的計畫但是很重要的就是如果我們有善意的回應那我們院長你說如果說在這段期間有善意的回應的話可能又會考慮再鬆綁是不是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
574.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
593.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我們是暫緩這個計畫那我先請教第一暫緩這個計畫是誰的指示是我們大家討論出來的結果院長部長還是觀光署署長這是整個執行團隊執政團隊那我們用的法令依據因為我們當時一講出來說暫緩這個計畫我們強調是所謂的法源依據在哪裡發展公關條例的第66條跟53條第53條他規定的是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
601.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
618.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
是觀光業損害國家利益我跟委員報告就是說第一個觀光署是一個旅遊業的主管機關所以按照旅行業的管理規則他可以做管理監督那管理監督就配合整個就是沒有善意往來的這個政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
619.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
641.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
就用發展觀光條例53條來處理部長我都非常理解過去4年我在交通委員會跟您有非常多的共識現在拉回來院長這邊要請教的是很多人就形容啦即便是如同您剛所提到是路方這邊沒有有足夠善意但是很多觀光旅遊住宿餐飲運輸業者大家會覺得是說這感覺是民進黨政府打小孩給別人看 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
642.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
644.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
所以3月開始到5月過去就不會傷害國家利益嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
672.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
673.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
最主要的國家利益 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
697.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
700.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
所以我可以來把那個完整的係數給委員瞭解嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
726.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
742.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
抱歉剛剛院長沒有辦法清楚回答這個問題本席時間有限要進行下一題謝謝來再來院長我想請教這不是本席沒有給他回答空間而是本席現在請教的是行政首長因為您剛剛有提到您剛剛有提到是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
743.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
750.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
這個命令也不是觀光署一個人說的算是你們全體的構思那本席請教啊520現在很多的觀光業者講說他們要上街抗議 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
758.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
781.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
那請教觀光業者他們上街抗議是要找誰我覺得業者應該要了解雙方之所以沒有辦法很健康有序的這樣的組團互相的觀光交流呢主要的一個問題就是因為誰下的命令6月要暫緩誰下的命令用觀光發展條例第53條要求業者不能在6月之後再組團去中國大陸 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
788.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
794.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
主委您可以回答本席不要再回顧歷史了你一直講去年8月的事情本席現在請教您今年6月的事情我們國內的業者沒有辦法賺800多億所以我再回答你的問題啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
816.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
817.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
本席在請教的是陳建仁院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
821.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
847.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
我再請教您剛剛有提到說您的任期有可能就要5月20號那5月20號的任期的行政首長可以決定6月之後的命令嗎我想當然當然可以啊因為這一個決議是我們這個行政團隊的這個決議可是您剛剛也提到是說您沒有跟賴清德總統當選人有討論過這樣的一個命令所以這樣的一個命令賴清德總統當選人也同意接受嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
850.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
854.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
本席要請教你怎麼可以在520的任期之後你就決定了6月台灣的觀光旅遊發展呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
874.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
893.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
所以我剛才講過如果大陸釋出3億這樣一個暫停的這個計畫是可以提前...院長國人都在看國人想強調的是我還是再次回來今天早上我的國事論壇特別提到希望我們是拼民生拼民生拼民生 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
894.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
909.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
降低政治意識形態好好的拼經濟拼民生飯店、旅遊、住宿、觀光、搬運、運輸業者能不能在今年7月的時候也希望盼到春暖花開有更多的市場這個在你一念之間 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
910.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
934.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
我們盼望啊我們盼望春暖花開兩岸有很好的交流可是您剛講的真的不是這樣來 院長我請教我現在要再進入下一題因為你這個問題沒有辦法回答院長 請教一下內閣官員他們的言行也都是您這邊必須認同或是您要負責對吧對 他們如果有做對的地方或宣戰最初的地方我會請他改進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
939.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
942.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
你認同這樣的講法嗎?你認同部會首長你的部會首長 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
958.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
959.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
這可能是企劃啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
975.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
995.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
可能是企劃,所以你不認同這樣的話我覺得應該要更加和諧,是更好確實啊,而且本席也認為說如果說真的有這樣的話除非你有什麼真憑實據否則的話這樣子根本就是人身攻擊跟侮辱嘛但是我相信這是有真憑實據來,那這樣子我也想,你相信有證據來來來,院長,部長有沒有跟您講說他有任何的真憑實據 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1003.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1014.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
這一件事情的來龍去脈我想大家都很清楚所以我才會覺得更加訝異的是說怎麼會您的部會首長居然在公開裡面講說有地方首長是醉了瘋了還是嗑藥所以是不是應該收回 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1021.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1023.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
中華民國政府或是中華民國的政府官員可以這樣子隨便對媒體講氣話嗎尤其是對地方首長 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1035.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1035.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1054.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1074.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
我奉勸您因為現在進入的是基隆市政府跟民間企業的官司我奉勸您不用在這個時候跳路或是加諸自己的判斷因為司法程序有司法程序要走對我同意院長今天本時有看到另外一個部分是媒體報導有講緊急應變隊 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1078.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1080.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
我先請教確認一下他跟現在我們現有的民防組織有沒有相關重疊他不太一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1105.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1129.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
委員長您的團隊我尊重他們上來是您的幕僚單位可以給你做一個提點但是不是本席在請教院長結果他們回答那這樣好像是每一個人都想要喘你的胃我覺得這樣不好這樣子不好對如同我們在委員會的時候部會首長在接受備選的時候這一些幕僚單位上來是可以搖耳朵 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1130.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1153.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
但是絕對不是代替你發言甚至沒有經過主席同意的就直接站上備詢台市長你可以同意嗎我想是這樣子啦剛才講的這個緊急應變隊這樣的一個計畫我們是參考美國跟新加坡的經驗主要是以火災的搶救緊急救護還有輕型的救援為主為什麼這個很重要因為我們大家都知道現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1154.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1158.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
議長本席不反對說因為現在的氣候變遷的這個極端氣候也因此我們需要投入更多但是來了問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1186.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1199.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
民防組織現在成立的法源依據是什麼是民防法對民防法裡面有相關的規定包括說他的組織他的中央主管機關地方主管機關以及如果說隊員在 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
1202.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
1211.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
執勤當中受災受傷還有所謂的撫恤還有你有規定如果說執勤的時候不到的話可以有罰則等等相關那緊急應變隊勒緊急應變隊的法源去在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
1216.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
1224.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
因為他最主要的目的請你先持續回答問題緊急應變隊的法源依據在哪裡消防法這是一個民間的組織緊急應變隊的法源依據是消防法民間企業要有防災的能力回答問題緊急應變隊的法源依據是什麼緊急應變隊法源依據您回答不出來緊急應變隊的中央儲管機關是誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
1246.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
1247.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
委員你可能搞錯了齁 錯 抱歉 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
1258.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
1277.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
部長我糾正您不用隨便在備詢台上講說委員搞錯因為委員的諮詢都是依法有據本席現在在講的是民防組織是有民防法三讀通過所以民防法裡面講得非常清楚中央主管機關是內政部地方主管機關是各縣市政府但是本席剛剛詢問了 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
1278.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
1308.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
這個這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
1309.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
1314.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
政府在施政的時候需要有法律規範的時候我們當然會把法律送到立法院來 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
1330.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
1331.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
緊急應變隊的預算會花多少? |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
1343.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
1351.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
緊急應變隊的預算我現在不是很清楚沒有規劃緊急應變隊將來會有320對8000人5年後全台灣遍佈25人的緊急應變結果你現在不知道你的預算要花多少那預算要花多少預算我們還要審議啊你自己心目中預算要花多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
1372.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
1374.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
我為什麼要請教你?因為緊急應變對這一個名詞以及為什麼媒體那麼關注是在你的施政報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
1393.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
1394.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
對 有些原則上我是這樣做院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
1422.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
1450.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
本席真的希望好好的算盡螺絲再來想跟你請教人事的部分NCC委員依法7月31號他的任期會有4位委員到期那依法3個月前會請行政院長提名對不對那請教因為520你才會卸任嘛那請教4月31號以前你會提名4位委員當然啦依法我一定會提來好 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
1452.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
1453.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
現在有沒有心目中的理想名單 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
1470.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
1472.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
你自己會先組一個委員會來討論說哪四位是合格的再送出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
1496.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
1510.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
本時有看到過年期間有個新聞是蔡英文總統跟賴清德副總統就說要討論NCC的人士避免在一片綠油油然後期待是說送來立法院的時候能夠比較順利通過主教你有沒有參加這個會議沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
1512.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
1518.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
你是提名人欸對 但是CC的委員是行政院長提名用立法院然後覺得你沒有參加這樣的會議這是新聞嘛 對不對所以這新聞存不存在這是不是事實這要新聞查證啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
1528.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
1529.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
所有的部會所長的任命我們都會跟總統來討論請示那請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
1555.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
1559.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
目前的情況當然是跟蔡總統請教蔡總統有他的政治智慧我相信賴副總統他也應該會有所瞭解 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
1580.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
1609.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
所以是 院長你不願意面對賴清德總統當選人不 抱歉 本席並不是要建功 院長本席並沒有要建功但是本席想知道說 本席想知道 不這是一個很嚴肅的問題 院長這是一個很嚴肅的問題因為國家在這三個月內不能有突然間不清楚說到底是誰是實權的總統或是誰是負責任任的部會首長所以本席才會想要知道說你現在的一個憲政體制我們到底是怎麼運行 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
1610.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
1614.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
所以提出來的人選會有蔡英文總統的認可跟賴清德總統當選人的認可 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
1640.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
1659.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
我會向他們報告討論那另外我想請教現在我們也看到說很奇怪就是過完年之後突然間有這個比較偏綠的這個平面媒體連兩天的時間大篇幅都在攻擊修理批評數位發展部 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
1660.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
1663.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
你覺得過去這一年半數位發展部表現如何那你覺得有符合國人的期待嗎媒體的報導公允還是有失公允 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
1685.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
1688.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
您身為院長您不好奇說剛看到平面媒體針對一個部會首長的時候沒有找唐部長來問一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
1700.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
1709.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
部長本席的時間有限但是我只想提醒為什麼國人或說媒體會對於數位發展部很重要的期待其中一個很大的原因就是因為詐騙嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
1728.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
1735.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
他在詐騙方面也做了蠻多的放縮 供奉宣 現在111的局勢 如果到全世界的局勢來看的話 那如果你去比較世界上其他的國家 他的這個詐騙的金額 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
1755.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
1771.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
我們過去5年的案件數是節節上升 詐騙金額節節上升我們自己跟自己比較可以嗎我們能不能要錢給人 要錢給錢就是要反詐騙國人就是討厭詐騙 國人就是希望人頭管理能不能有效的打詐 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
1776.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
1802.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
的這個當然可以阿你怎麼解釋去年詐騙案件屢創新高金額屢創新高我今天早上已經有解釋這樣子算是當然可以嗎您過去完整的一年的任期以前的詐騙的案件一定要好好的來通報但是今天早上有委員問起有黑素的問題當我們黑素挖出來的時候你成立了一個反詐騙集團的時候最後20秒 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
1805.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
1825.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
我還是要利用我的時間因為我也是非常關心體育的剛剛莊瑞雄委員有提到我們看到了中華南藍他們這禮拜五居然是沒有集體保險而身為國家代表隊的運動球員其實都應該要有合格保險能不能我未來會提案但我希望能不能我們未來國家代表國家隊出隊的運動員都 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
1853.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
1858.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
謝謝洪委員孟楷的質詢接下來我們跟院會報告休息10分鐘好 謝謝 |