| IVOD_ID |
149024 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149024 |
| 日期 |
2023-12-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-10-8-26-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第10屆第8會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
10 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
8 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
15 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第10屆第8會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2023-12-14T09:58:00+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2023-12-14T10:08:22+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:22 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/60e87dad815fd5c3a1b927e31281aa13a8fa0c68b4c214c5c986728e607a03224afb211783feff0a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
林為洲 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:58:00 - 10:08:22 |
| 會議時間 |
2023-12-14T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第10屆第8會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長、外交部、經濟部、衛生福利部、農業部、內政部、交通部、國家科學及技術委員會、財政部、金融監督管理委員會及財團法人國際合作發展基金會就「第二十八屆聯合國氣候變遷大會(COP28)返國報告與後續因應情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
| gazette.lineno |
583 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
林委員為洲：（9時58分）謝謝召委，我們請薛部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：有請薛部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
薛部長富盛：林委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
林委員為洲：薛部長，這一次你有去參加這個COP會議嗎？有嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
薛部長富盛：是，有。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
林委員為洲：你是坐什麼艙，經濟艙還是商務艙？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
薛部長富盛：商務艙。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
林委員為洲：OK，你知道規定嘛！部長級的可以坐商務艙，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
薛部長富盛：按照……是。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
林委員為洲：有沒有被升等升成頭等艙？ |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
薛部長富盛：應該有吧！ |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
林委員為洲：你有升等成頭等艙？ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
薛部長富盛：因為這個都是幕僚安排，我…… |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
林委員為洲：所以你是坐頭等艙去的，誰幫你升等的你知道嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
薛部長富盛：我整個行程這些事務性的…… |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
林委員為洲：說明一下，請你們的幕僚幫忙說明，誰幫部長升等頭等艙的？ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
蔡署長玲儀：跟委員報告，這個是按照行政院的規定。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
林委員為洲：行政院規定只能坐商務艙喔！ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
蔡署長玲儀：部會首長如果是有提供頭等艙的話，是可以的。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
林委員為洲：你們是買頭等艙，還是買商務艙啦？ |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
蔡署長玲儀：我們是買頭等艙。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
林委員為洲：喔！買的時候就買頭等艙？ |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
蔡署長玲儀：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
林委員為洲：這是符合規定嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
蔡署長玲儀：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
林委員為洲：你要確定呢！ |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
蔡署長玲儀：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
林委員為洲：還是被升等的？ |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
蔡署長玲儀：是，按照就是…… |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
林委員為洲：原來就買頭等艙？ |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
蔡署長玲儀：按照規定來的。 |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
林委員為洲：不過這個以後我們還是可以檢討，有必要一定要坐頭等艙嗎？因為我從來沒有坐過頭等艙，我不知道頭等艙會是什麼樣的滋味，商務艙已經很好了，我坐過商務艙，所以將來預算上我們再來檢討。好，你請回，部長留著。 |
| gazette.blocks[31][1] |
我們先看一下你們在FB的粉專，最近你們一個禮拜貼好幾篇跟本業無關的內容，幫行政院大內宣，像是長照2.0溫暖照顧。你們是環境部，不是衛福部。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
薛部長富盛：跟委員報告…… |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
林委員為洲：還有打造溫暖而堅韌的臺灣，講疫情特別條例照顧臺灣，這跟你有什麼關係？跟環境部有什麼關係？ |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
薛部長富盛：給林委員報告…… |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
林委員為洲：要你們貼文大內宣？ |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
薛部長富盛：行政院的部會是一體的。 |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
林委員為洲：幫忙大內宣？ |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
薛部長富盛：這個跟大內宣沒有關係。給林委員報告，行政院底下的各部會是一體的，這個部分已經有40…… |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
林委員為洲：難怪按讚數是30、40，沒有人看，所以也沒有得到什麼大內宣的效果。我建議你們還是回歸自己的本業，對不對？這幾天大家都在討論COP會議到底在談哪一些內容？臺灣還有哪一些可以做得更好，對不對？要專注在本業，貼這個也沒人看，你們的FB評價兩顆星，加油，請注重本業。 |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
薛部長富盛：是…… |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
林委員為洲：這才是你的專業。 |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
薛部長富盛：謝謝林委員，我們當然也注重本業，整個行政團隊…… |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
林委員為洲：比例是一個禮拜貼三篇，全部是大內宣，是跟貴部毫無關係的貼文，行政院有行政院的網站或是FB粉絲專業社團，它去貼嘛！你們要注重本業。 |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
薛部長富盛：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
林委員為洲：好，你去參加COP 28會議，當然大家在講從27屆到現在28屆，我們到底有沒有進步？但是因為指標的關係，有的NGO評論我們是退步，但是你們一直說我們是進步的，好吧！各有各的指標，採樣的指標不同，不過這個是叫做德國看守的NGO…… |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
薛部長富盛：它是一個民間組織。 |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
林委員為洲：我知道它是一個NGO，它的CCPI每年都會評，大家也都會參考，所以還是注意一下。 |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
薛部長富盛：是，我們來當做參考。 |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
林委員為洲：看它他怎麼樣評。你剛剛有做一部分解釋，不過這幾項我們拿出來看，整體表現就不講，因為整體表現到底用哪一些指標加總起來……。我們看它的內容，臺灣在溫室氣體排放及能源使用中的成績非常差，在再生能源和氣候政策方面則是比較差的差評，非常差的是能源使用，所以這一部分值得我們檢討。你知道我們現在發電的組合，火力發電占多少嗎？火力發電裡面當然有燃煤、燃氣…… |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
薛部長富盛：燃煤跟天然氣大概都各自將近40%左右。 |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
林委員為洲：所以占八成。 |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
薛部長富盛：是，可是我們的再生能源大概已經從1、2%到現在10%了，這個成長速率在國際上的排名應該是前段班。 |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
林委員為洲：降低火力發電的比例做得不好，所以這個部分…… |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
薛部長富盛：我們先用天然氣取代煤…… |
| gazette.blocks[55][0] |
林委員為洲：天然氣還是會排放氣體。 |
| gazette.blocks[56][0] |
薛部長富盛：能源都是以進口為主，所以各位應該也都知道，我們不可能一時之間馬上…… |
| gazette.blocks[57][0] |
林委員為洲：天然氣不是代表乾淨的能源。 |
| gazette.blocks[58][0] |
薛部長富盛：它的排碳量比煤…… |
| gazette.blocks[59][0] |
林委員為洲：它會排哪一些氣體？ |
| gazette.blocks[60][0] |
薛部長富盛：會排二氧化碳溫室氣體…… |
| gazette.blocks[61][0] |
林委員為洲：也是會排嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[62][0] |
薛部長富盛：但是它排…… |
| gazette.blocks[63][0] |
林委員為洲：它也是化石原料嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[64][0] |
薛部長富盛：是，沒錯，但是它的量比生煤少很多。 |
| gazette.blocks[65][0] |
林委員為洲：大家都要減少化石原料的使用，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[66][0] |
薛部長富盛：所以這次的COP為什麼不敢直接說phase-out of fossil fuels，最後也是必須妥協。 |
| gazette.blocks[67][0] |
林委員為洲：因為有人反對啊！阿拉伯國家反對。 |
| gazette.blocks[68][0] |
薛部長富盛：為什麼會反對？就是因為它不實際。 |
| gazette.blocks[69][0] |
林委員為洲：因為他們生產石油啊！為什麼反對？難道你要幫他講話嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[70][0] |
薛部長富盛：不是，林委員，因為我們沒有生產石油…… |
| gazette.blocks[71][0] |
林委員為洲：人家要phase-out of fossil fuels，這是趨勢嘛！你要幫他們講話，是嗎？說這個大家沒有達成共識。 |
| gazette.blocks[72][0] |
薛部長富盛：不是幫他們講話啦，因為我們也沒有生產石油。 |
| gazette.blocks[73][0] |
林委員為洲：對啊！我們要有自己的…… |
| gazette.blocks[74][0] |
薛部長富盛：是，沒錯。 |
| gazette.blocks[75][0] |
林委員為洲：2050能夠達到淨零碳排。 |
| gazette.blocks[76][0] |
薛部長富盛：我們要對自己有信心。 |
| gazette.blocks[77][0] |
林委員為洲：你的能源那一塊是最主要的，我提供幾個資料，COP27的時候，他們特別提到臺灣的中火、麥寮電、興達電，就是火力發電，還有中鋼、林口火力發電被點名是全球最髒的500大碳排放源，我們就占了幾個？中火、麥寮電、興達電、中鋼、林口電；今年COP28，我們臺灣政府又被點名說減碳不僅沒有改善，還更退步。所以能源政策其實是關係到我們2050要達到淨零碳排最大的關鍵點，如果我們的火力發電不管是煤或天然氣，一直沒有辦法減少，我們要達到那樣的目標叫做緣木求魚。這些都是全球500大碳排最多的，全球500大在我們臺灣，然後你說我們做得多好，這個我們慢慢來討論，有必要整體檢討我們的能源政策，尤其是電，因為電是源頭，你產生電才能讓企業運轉，你即使把汽車全部改成電動汽車，不直接排二氧化碳，但是如果你用的電是火力發電，這些在路上跑的汽車、電車用的還是火力產生的能源，那個源頭我們要好好來探討。今天因為時間的關係，以後我們再找時間探討，等一下我們要去朝野協商。 |
| gazette.blocks[78][0] |
薛部長富盛：謝謝林委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[79][0] |
主席：謝謝林委員，有請邱泰源委員。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
466 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-10-8-26-15 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
吳欣盈 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
洪申翰 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
蘇巧慧 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
吳玉琴 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
林為洲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
邱泰源 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
黃秀芳 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
陳椒華 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
徐志榮 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
張育美 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
陳瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
王婉諭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
賴惠員 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
楊曜 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
莊競程 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
393 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2023-12-14 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1130201 |
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1130201_00007 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第10屆第8會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
邀請環境部部長、外交部、經濟部、衛生福利部、農業部、內政部、交通部、國家科學及技術委
員會、財政部、金融監督管理委員會及財團法人國際合作發展基金會就「第二十八屆聯合國氣候
變遷大會(COP28)返國報告與後續因應情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢 |
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謝謝昭緯我們請薛部長有請薛部長林委好薛部長這一次你有去參加這個COP是會議嗎是有嗎有你是做什麼艙 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
24.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
48.888 |
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經濟艙還是商務艙商務艙OK你只要規定嘛部長級的按照可以做商務艙是對不對啊有沒有被升等升成頭等艙有沒有應該有吧你有你有升等成頭等艙沒有因為這個都是幕僚安排所以你是做頭等艙去的誰幫你升等的你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
51.495 |
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60.738 |
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整個形成這些說明一下請你們的幕僚幫忙說明誰幫部長升等頭等艙的跟委員報告這個是按照那個行政院的規定行政院規定只能做商務艙喔部會首長是如果有提供這個頭等艙的話是可以的 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
77.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
102.194 |
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你們是買頭等艙還是買商務艙我們是買頭等艙買的時候就買頭等艙這是符合規定嗎你要確定還是被升等的原來就是買頭等艙按照規定來的不過這個以後我們還是可以檢討有必要一定要做頭等艙嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
104.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
121.177 |
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商務艙因為我從來沒有做過頭等艙我不知道頭等艙會是什麼什麼樣的滋味商務艙已經很好了我做過商務艙所以這個將來預算上我們再來檢討好來我們談期的你請回部長留著 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
126.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
134.147 |
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這個 我們先看一下你們的這個網站不是啦 FB的這個粉專最近你們貼了好幾篇 這一個禮拜貼好幾篇跟本頁無關的這個內容幫行政院在大內宣長照2.0溫暖照顧 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
153.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
155.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
環境部你不是衛福部啊打造溫暖而堅韌的台灣講疫情 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
166.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
189.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
特別條例照顧台灣這跟你有什麼關係?跟環境部有什麼關係?給林委員報告行政院的部位是一體的啦大內宣這個跟大內宣沒有關係啦給林委員報告行政院底下的各部位是一體的那這個部分已經有難怪那個按讚數30啦40啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
191.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
215.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
沒有人在看所以也沒有得到什麼大內宣的效果我建議你們還是回歸自己的本業 對不對這幾天大家都在討論這個COP會議到底在談哪一些內容臺灣還有哪一些可以做得更好的 對不對要專注在本業 貼這個也沒人看你們那個評價兩顆星 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
218.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
222.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
你們那個FB的這個評價兩顆星加油啦注重本頁啦這才是你的專業嘛謝謝林委員這個本頁當然也注重啦那個比例啊你那一個禮拜貼三篇就貼的全部是大內宣跟貴部毫無關係的貼文 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
242.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
257.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
這個行政院有行政院他的這個網站嘛或是他的FB粉絲專頁社團他去貼嘛你們要注重本頁好我們來問一下就是說你去參加了這個COP28這個會議啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
262.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
282.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
當然大家在講說我們到底有沒有進步從27屆到現在27屆到28屆有沒有進步但是因為指標的關係有的NGO評論我們是退步那你們一直講說我們是進步進步的好吧 這個就各有各的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
284.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
292.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
指標它採樣的指標的不同不過還是因為這個是叫做德國看守 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
294.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
314.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
的一個NGO每年我知道一個NGO他CCPI每年都會評但是大家也都會參考所以還是注意一下看他用什麼樣的評你剛剛有做了一部分的解釋不過針對這幾項我們把它拿出來看就是針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
321.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
343.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
整體表現 這個我們就不講因為整體表現到底用哪一些指標加總起來的然後我們看它的內容臺灣在溫室氣體排放及能源使用中的成績非常差在再生能源和氣候政策方面則是比較差的差評非常差的是能源使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
352.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
371.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
這部分我覺得啊是有值得我們檢討的你知道我們現在的能源的發電的組合火力發電佔多少火力發電裡面當然有燃煤、燃氣大概各自相近40%左右嘛所以佔八成啊是 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
372.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
390.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
可是我們在再生能源已經從幾乎大概1、2%到現在已經10%了我想這個成長速率大概在國際上排名應該是前段班啦火力發電的降低比例做得不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
391.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
405.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我們先從用天然氣來期待煤我們能源都是以進口為主所以各位應該也都知道天然氣不是代表乾淨的能源 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
406.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
427.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
他會排什麼?他會排哪一些?氣體?二氧化碳也是氣體會,但是他的排...他也是化石原料嘛!是!沒錯!但是他的量...大家都要減少化石原料的使用嘛!所以這一次的COP他為什麼不敢直接講說Face out fossil fuel? |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
428.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
447.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
你看他也是自己最後必須因為有人反對阿阿拉伯國家反對阿為什麼會反對就是因為他不實際因為他生產石油阿為什麼反對難道你要幫他講話嗎因為我們沒有生產石油這是趨勢嘛這是趨勢嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
458.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
466.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
阿你要幫他們講話說 因為這個沒有通過大家的共識不是幫他們講話啦 因為我們也沒有生產食用 對啊我們要有自己的 是 沒錯 達到2050我們要對自己有信心啦 能夠淨零碳排阿你的 欸 能源那一塊是最主要的啦好啦 我提供幾個 好 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
482.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
507.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
這個二十七的時候他們特別提到臺灣的中火、麥寮電、興達電就火力發電火力發電還有中鋼林口火力發電被點名是全球最髒的五百個碳排放源全球最髒的五百大 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
508.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
524.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我們就佔了幾個中火、麥寮電、興達電、中鋼、林口電今年COP28我們台灣政府又被點名說減碳不僅沒有改善還更退步所以這個齁這個這個能源政策齁其實關係到我們整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
537.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
562.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
這個2050要達到淨零碳排最大的關鍵點就在能源政策了如果我們的火力發電不管是煤或是天然氣一直沒有辦法減少我們要達到那樣的目標叫做緣木求魚啦那個都是全球500大排碳排最多的500大在我們台灣你說我們做得多好 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
568.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
580.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
有必要 這個我們慢慢來討論有必要整體檢討我們的能源尤其是電因為電是源頭啦你產生電才能讓企業 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
585.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
606.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
運轉讓汽車你即使全部改把它改成電動汽車不直接排碳二氧化碳但是你用的電如果是火力發電這些在路上跑的汽車電車用的還是火力的東西火力的能源所以那個源頭我們要好好的來探討 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
607.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
618.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
好今天時間的關係以後我們再找時間探討等一下我們要去草野協商了好謝謝林委員好謝謝謝謝林委員有請邱太元邱委員 |