| IVOD_ID |
17592 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17592 |
| 日期 |
2026-07-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-26-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第19次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
19 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第19次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2026-07-15T08:35:12+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-07-15T15:25:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
06:49:48 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/bfaf9b39ac01a685b98241217e75b9f39fbcdaa0ed0e44106d94474d9c748abc0d5660158803e5705ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-07-15T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第19次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查行政院函請審議「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案。
二、繼續審查委員徐巧芯等19人擬具「菸害防制法第二十六條條文修正草案」案。
三、繼續審查委員黃健豪等17人擬具「菸害防制法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。
四、繼續審查委員羅智強等17人擬具「菸害防制法第二十六條條文修正草案」案。
五、繼續審查委員羅智強等17人擬具「菸害防制法第四十條條文修正草案」案。
六、繼續審查委員陳秀寳等20人擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案。
七、繼續審查委員林月琴等22人擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案。
八、繼續審查委員王育敏等20人擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案。
九、繼續審查委員邱若華等17人擬具「菸害防制法第三條及第十五條條文修正草案」案。
十、繼續審查委員陳超明等31人擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案。
十一、繼續審查委員王義川等17人擬具「菸害防制法第三十二條及第四十條條文修正草案」案。
十二、繼續審查委員林倩綺等22人擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案。
十三、繼續審查委員陳菁徽等21人擬具「菸害防制法第十五條條文修正草案」案。
十四、繼續審查委員林思銘等20人擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案。
十五、繼續審查委員邱鎮軍等24人擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案。
十六、繼續審查委員賴瑞隆等17人擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案。
十七、審查委員王美惠等18人擬具「菸害防制法第十五條及第四十條條文修正草案」案。
十八、審查委員李彥秀等16人擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案。
十九、審查委員顏寬恒等17人擬具「菸害防制法第十五條條文修正草案」案。
二十、審查委員徐巧芯等16人擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案。
二十一、審查委員李坤城等19人擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案。
二十二、審查委員王育敏等16人擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案。
二十三、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案。
二十四、審查委員黃捷等17人擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案。
二十五、審查委員黃健豪等16人擬具「菸害防制法第三條及第八條條文修正草案」案。
二十六、審查委員林淑芬等19人擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案。
二十七、審查委員黃秀芳等24人擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案。
二十八、審查委員陳培瑜等18人擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案。
二十九、審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案。
....(完整內容，詳見議事日程)
【逐條討論，不詢答】
【第一案及第二十二至三十案，如經復議則不予審查；第三十一至三十五案，如未經院會交付本會審查或未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:35:12 - 15:25:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
114.329 |
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115.131 |
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感谢观看,下次见! |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
157.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
157.353 |
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謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1639.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1666.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
現在開會請主命報告出席人數報告委員會出席委員人數5人已足法定人數請議事人員宣讀上次會議事錄立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次群體委員會議事錄時間115年7月8日9時1分至16時30分地點群行老巴林議會議事出席委員盧憲一等15人列席委員陳昭芝等28人列席官員衛生福利部部長時從兩級各相關部會主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1668.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1696.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
主席卢钊及委员现已报告事项宣读上次会议事录决定确定邀请卫生福利部部长教育部及经济部就食安问题报布挺如何构建使国人安心生活就学与食品厂安全管理精进作为进行专题报告并被质询本次会议专题报告及讨论事项才综合询答经委员张家俊及苏清泉说明提案直去由卫生福利部部长石中良报告及说明后委员陈金辉等23人提出质询 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1698.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1713.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
均经卫生福利部部长石冲亮行政院食品安全办公室主任徐福吉消费者保护处副处长陈兴宏农业部动植物防疫检验署署组长于俊明与迅穆斯副市长周志勋财政部官务署副组长陈美智教育部国民 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1713.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1742.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
及学前健康署副署长代署分级保护参事王南军及各相关主管等即席答复文徐新营等六人所提书面质询列入记录刊登公报决定报告质询答完毕文质询未及答复或请补充资料者请相关机关于二周内以书面答复为另要求期限者从期锁定讨论事项审查及继续审查委员调委想的18人拟据食品安全卫生管理法第24条及第25条条文修正常案等17案 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1744.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1772.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
決議說明及詢問完畢而食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案等17案另擇期繼續審查本次會議通過臨時提案二項宣讀完畢請問委員會上次議事錄有無錯誤或遺漏之處好 議事錄確定本日議程為審查及繼續審查行政院含情審議陰害防治法部分條文修正草案等35案 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1773.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1788.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
各位同仁今天我擔任召委排審我們的煙害防治法的修正案最重要的目的就是要守護國人的健康及公共安全我想近年來我們的電子煙及我們的新興毒品的載具層出不窮 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1791.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1816.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
不僅成為我們年輕人的接觸毒品的管道那當然也更延伸我們的毒價的重大的公共危害所以我們希望透過今天完善的一個法制加強管理跟我們的嚴格執法從源頭防堵我們的有害電子菸流入到市面來維護我們的危害到我們的下一代所以我們希望保護我們的下一代 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1816.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1844.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
也維護所有用戶人的安全 我覺得今天期盼我們的朝夜能夠理性的討論來共同完成符合社會期待的修法接著介紹我們的在場的委員 王振旭委員吳憲義昭委圖前級委員王健豪委員抱歉 邱慧玉委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1847.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1871.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
接下來我們介紹列席的官員衛生福利部石崇良部長國民健康署沈敬芬署長法規會陳信成參事內政部警政署行政組的朱信憲署長刑事警察局經濟科沈梅君股長 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1874.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1890.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
毒品查緝中心薛生旭研究員財政部官務署郭寬淵組長國庫署袁旭傑副組長負稅署王俊榮專門委員教育部綜合規劃師張金淑副司長 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1901.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1929.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
學生事務及特殊教育師鄭文堯專門委員國民及學前教育署林如榮專門委員法務部汪南軍參事經濟部商業發展署莊文林副組長交通部公共運輸及監理師趙敬偉專門委員數位發展部法制處吳怡綸副處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1933.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1946.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
資源管理師鄭秀琳專門委員數位產業署陳惠敏副署長數位產業署平台經濟組鍾嘉榮副組長大陸委員會法政處李佩如專門委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1958.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
1986.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
金融監督管理委員會銀行局嚴嘉瑩專門委員海洋委員會海巡署情報組黃永章參議員國家通訊傳播委員會網際網路傳播辦公室陳昭如檢任視察環境部徐旭成參事環境管理署陳敬利記政 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
1991.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2016.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
提案委員說明提案要之前先做以下說明一本會在115年7月2日第17次會議已就委員徐曉清等19人凝聚陰害防治法第26條條文修正草案等17案詢答完畢二本日就新增之行政院函勤審議陰害防治法部分條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2017.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2035.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
提案等二十案與上述部分提案一併審查三本日緊究提案進行提案說明不另作詢答現在請提案委員說明提案要旨 每位委員兩分鐘首先請王健豪委員說明我問一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2045.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2063.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
主席部長各位同仁大家早安首先感謝主席排這個煙害防治法的修法相關的審查我想近年來這煙害的問題非常嚴重那現在社會上當然最關注的是上屍煙但電子煙的問題那電子煙為什麼難防呢因為電子煙它是很多個組合元件組合進來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2064.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2089.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
所以他進口的時候他不會想要電子煙他是不同的不同的配件分批的進到台灣來然後在台灣組裝變成電子煙在市面上販賣那我今天提案的部分是針對水煙其實水煙也是一樣的概念水煙有煙草所以它是煙瓶但是水煙的濾嘴水煙的管子水煙裡面這個容器它到底是不是屬於煙害防治法裡面管制的東西呢因為在現行的法律裡面我舉個例子這個東西在我選區的學校的對面 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2091.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2112.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
他賣的是水煙的濾嘴那廠商也很公然的在IG上在網路行調上面跟學童上還有跟警察跟地方的所有校長跟里長講說他賣的東西絕對合法因為這個東西這樣的原件他絕對不屬於他認為他不屬於煙害防治法裡面規範的所謂的必要原件那我就問嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2113.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2126.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
今天我們也發函請教衛福部我們也發函請教台中市衛生局但是大家回憶給我們的說法都是說這個濾嘴它不屬於菸品的主要元件那請問一下這個擺明的就是水菸的 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2128.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2144.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
綠嘴他只會用在抽水煙的這件事情上面那他除了抽水煙他沒有其他用途了可是他確認過在學校的周邊合法販賣而且提供QR code然後在網路上行銷宣傳他就是鼓勵大家去做相關的這個販售去做相關的買賣 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2145.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2161.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
所以這樣子的商品這樣子的一個組合元件在現在各種新興煙品裡面都會發生這樣相關的問題傳統的紫煙或是現在的加熱煙它的組成它的藥性都非常明確但是在電子煙或水煙它可以添加各種煙草各種化合物進去的這種東西裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2164.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2182.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
到底他的整個組合的這個原件裡面哪些屬於液態防治法規範的範圍這個是我這一次提案的最主要的要旨也希望衛福部跟相關單位能夠支持 以上謝謝好 謝謝我們的王建豪委員說明那接下來請邱惠祿委員代表台灣民眾黨說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2191.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2218.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
主席還有各位委員同仁大家好我想電子菸呢就是在校園盛行那盛行的情形呢除了吸電子菸之外還有用它的載體來吸食依托米子那造成這個毒品很嚴重的氾濫那本次台灣民眾長提出了五項修法那第一項修法呢就是本來任何人對電子菸的使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2218.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2238.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
有處罰但是沒有處罰到持有所以我們這次把電子煙的持有也納入處罰範圍這是第一個修法重點那第二個修法重點是根據煙害防治法第15條任何人不能夠做八個動作第一個動作就是輸入製造供應販賣廣告展示 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2241.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2266.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
持有使用電子煙那如果使用電子煙我們對這八個行為太樣了我們的提案就是把這些違禁品加以沒收跟銷毀這是第二個重點那第三個重點就是如果有意圖盈利而做製造輸入販賣供應的話那處罰可能已經不是行政責任我們把它提升到刑事責任的位階 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2267.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2292.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那接著另外的重點呢就是網路平台的一個管制如果有人在網路平台刊登這些違法的訊息那麼我們規範呢網路平台就有一個下架停刊移除的義務如果沒有移除的話就會被可以行政法的處罰那除此之外呢就是網路平台業者他要保留這些違法行為人的個資 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2293.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2311.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
主管機關如果來做查緝的時候應該要提供這些個資給主管機關如果沒有提供的話也會科與行政法那我們提出這個電子菸的一個相關修法也希望能夠處理少年使用依托米子毒品氾濫的情形以上說明謝謝好謝謝邱惠祿委員好說明那接下來請盧縣議召委說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2329.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2347.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
謝謝主席 針對修正條文第9條我的本席的意見是菸材業者可能透過資助研究與減害的論述包裝其商業利益以削弱國家陰害防治政策的成效尤其是原鄉地區資訊管道單一預售池內非燃燒風險較低的行銷劃數來誤導 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2350.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2365.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
為了保護青少年免於新型態的尼古丁成癮 必須以法國之名定來防堵 醫院商利用減害文字來進行政策干預與行銷行銷的空間另外在 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2365.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2386.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
行政院版與本次修法加菸品的製造輸入販賣予以刑法化並對持有以使用科以高額的罰款但3D原住民部落可能對於電子菸等同犯罪甚至可能含有毒品這些新的資訊存在有嚴重的數位落差與嚴格合 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2387.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2415.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
政府不能一邊修法可以重法一邊卻只用傳統的網路宣導的方式應該明定主管機關需提供各族族語在地化的宣導方能落實原鄉的資訊平權因為在部落的雜貨店上都是老人在這經營如果說不小心觸法的話可能就會受到牢獄之災所以我覺得在原鄉地區應該另外再予以寬戴謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2418.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2423.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
好 謝謝我們盧先生召委說明 接下來請衛生福利部時事部長並按說明時間4分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2432.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2451.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
主席 各位委員今天大院審查有關陰害防治法部分修正條文共35案本部先就行政院的版本向各位委員說明立法的重點首先是全面落實源頭嚇阻 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2453.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2474.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
阻絕非法的供應鏈那麼針對製造輸入販賣還有展示或者是供應電子煙及其組合元件的都刻意刑事處罰並徵定未遂犯及法人或者自然人的併罰規定那麼期待從源頭徹底的瓦解這個違法的整個產業鏈 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2476.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2491.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
那麼其次是強化行政的管制作為消明違法的持有那麼除了刑責之外那麼本次行政院版本的修法重點裡面還特別新增禁止持有類菸品 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2492.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2516.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
也就是電子菸還有它的組合元件以及持有未經核定通過健康風險評估的指定菸品也就是加熱菸及其組合元件除了納入行政處罰也有末路的條款那麼讓執行機關能夠在第一個時間就阻絕違法物品的流通 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2517.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2542.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
那麼最後呢是要斷絕網路的不法傳播那麼遏止廣告的氾濫那麼針對網際網路的違法資訊的傳播迅速的特性那麼本次的修法也明確化了網際網路的業者的管理義務及資料的保留責任並且呢導入限制接取或者是停止解析等等的 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2543.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2558.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
屏蔽措施 務必從源頭來加強管理以上報告是行政院版本的修法重點以下在就各位委員所提的修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2559.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2575.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
那麼綜合意見說明如下再請各位委員參考那麼首先是在這個全面的落實源頭嚇阻阻絕非法供應鏈的部分那麼部分委員也就修正了26條32條或37條也都是希望透過調升罰緩以期達到嚇阻的效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2585.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2599.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
那麼當然這個從112年3月22號那麼施行禁止這個電子菸之後那麼雖然有罰還但是能量未能夠完全阻絕其在本土的 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2600.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2614.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
市場流通的現象那麼顯然呢單單以罰還等行政法是沒有辦法達到充分嚇阻的效果那麼因此呢本次在就加電子煙的製造製造 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2618.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2636.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
輸入販賣展示以及供應的行為那麼都提升有刑罰那麼與委員要強化這個處罰的修法方向是一致的那麼至於針對已經通過核定有健康風險評估這個審查的指定菸品 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2641.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2659.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
沒有經過這個審查通過的這個指定煙品也就是加熱煙以及組合元件那麼能夠維持現行的行政法那麼沒有那麼提高嚇阻這個用這個刑法的方式那麼其次呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2661.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2676.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
在強化這個行政管制作為消米違法持有的部分那麼多數的委員也有新增禁止持有這個電子煙及其組合元件還有持有未經許可的 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2677.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2693.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
這個指定煙品也就是加熱煙及其組合元件也訂定相關的罰則讓第一線的執法人員能夠及時的去阻絕違法的物品那麼跟委員的修法版本裡面有修訂到第15條第26條第32條37條或40條那麼是一致的 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2700.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2722.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
但是有部分委員的版本提出需要在預期30日內統一銷毀或者將沒入的物品都要全面送檢的規範考量到修法的版本涉及刑事法所以司法機關可能有保全證物的需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2723.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2750.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
同時是否送檢也依其全責所以建請委員再行審酌最後是對於杜絕網路的不法傳播來防止廣告氾濫的部分那麼考量到網際網路的特性那麼部分的委員跟黨團的版本草案增訂15條之一15條之二15條之三15條之四 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2753.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2783.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
第30條之一32條之一或者是修訂第30條跟第31條來規範網際網路業者的責任並且要求採取移除違法的資訊限制接取等手段及訂定相應罰則那麼這些規範都跟行政院版本的修法方向一致我們敬表支持那麼最後呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2784.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2799.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
那麼另外有委員對於這個部分委員修訂15條之一15條之二的網路業者的管理機制以及對於未滿20歲之人的使用或持有 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2800.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2819.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
這個電子菸要接受戒菸教育等規定等等那麼因為這個涉及到它實務上的執行的可行性我們建議呢那也許可以授權執法那麼再來進行一些規範跟執行那麼以上說明了再請各位委員那麼指教謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2823.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2841.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
好 謝謝我們的市部長先做以上宣告一 循例本日不處理臨時提案二 有關本市會議各項書面資料均列入記錄刊登公報下面請議事人員宣讀法案提案條文內容若有修正動議請一併宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2845.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2871.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
沿海防治法部分條文修正草案,行政院提案,委員徐巧欣等19人提案,委員黃建豪等17人提案,委員羅志強等17人提案,1007307委員羅志強等17人提案,10220200委員陳秀寶等20人提案,委員林月琴等22人提案,委員王玉敏等22人提案,委員邱若驊等17人提案,委員陳超敏等31人提案,委員王逸川等17人提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2872.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2875.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
请不吝点赞 订阅 转发 打赏支持明镜与点点栏目 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2898.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2916.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
委員林淑芬等19人提案委員黃秀芳等24人提案委員陳佩玉等18人提案談民眾黨黨團提案委員王美惠等19人提案委員林月琴等20人提案委員李柏毅等16人提案委員盧新義等18人提案委員郭毅琴等16人提案委員鍾嘉斌等18人提案現行法條文對照表 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2920.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2936.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
韓民眾黨黨團提案第二條增列第二項主管機關與目的事業主管機關應就本法規定事項相互配合辦理下列事項一中主管機關本法政策法規與方案之研究規劃訂定解釋與網際網路業者違規行為之調查及處罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2941.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2963.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
二 数位经济相关产业主管机关网机网路业者涉及本法事项之数位技术协助限制接取处置与跨部会协调之规划推动执行及监督三 其他相关防治工作由目的事业主管机关依职权办理文秋若华等17人提案第三条 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2970.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2985.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
3.水煙只利用碳火、電子或其他加熱方式使煙草含有泥骨丁或非泥骨丁之物料產生煙霧並經由沉水容器或液體過濾後,以吸管吸用及其他相類產品。 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
2987.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3013.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
第二項第二行修正視為前項第四款之吸菸其餘同現行法文黃建豪等16人提案與委員邱若驊等17人提案同文成超敏等31人提案第7條第一項據莫增列專攻出口之菸品不在此限但應符合相關應符合輸入國法規其餘同現行法 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3015.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3032.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
委員黃建豪等16人提案第8條第一項據莫增列指定煙品及水煙或其必要之組合元件同時第一項第三款第三行增列頓耗水煙或其組合元件 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3033.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3052.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
增列第二項任何人不得於各高級中等以下學校基地境界線五十公尺以下區域內販賣供應展示或廣告水煙或其組合元件其餘同線刑法行政院提案第九條第一項第一行修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3054.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3079.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
菸品頓耗指定菸品必要之組合原件第二項第一行修正菸品或指定菸品必要之組合原件之容器其予通現行法委員林淑芬等19人提案委員黃婕等17人提案委員林月琴等20人提案委員盧憲一等18人提案委員黃秀芳等24人提案委員陳佩玉等18人提案委員郭怡琴等16人提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3079.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3108.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
文王美惠等19人提案委员钟嘉斌等18人提案与行政院提案同文成超明等30人提案第10条第一项第二行巨莫增列专攻出口者不在此县但应符合输入国法规其余同现行法行政院提案第13条第二项第一行修正贩卖烟品之场所展示烟品顿号 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3109.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3130.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
煙品容器頓號指定煙品必要之組合元件或其容器其餘同線刑法為林淑芬等19人提案為黃婕等17人提案為林月琴等20人提案為盧憲一等18人提案為黃秀芳等24人提案為陳佩玉等18人提案為郭益勤等16人提案為 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3132.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3155.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
中嘉賓等18人提案與行政院提案同為王美惠等19人提案第二項第一行修正販賣菸品之場所展示菸品或菸品容器頓號其餘行政院提案同行政院提案第13條之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3162.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3189.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
第13條之一指定煙品必要之組合原件不得於販賣煙品場所以外之場所販賣為您數分等19人提案為黃捷等17人提案為您月請等20人提案為盧仙怡等18人提案為黃秀芳等24人提案為陳佩玉等18人提案為郭玉琴等16人提案為王美惠等19人提案為鍾嘉斌等18人提案於行政院提案同行政院提案第15條 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3191.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3214.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
第二項修正任何人不得使用或持有類煙品其組合元件遁號未經核定通過健康風險評估審查之指定煙品或其必要之組合元件第三項第三行修正提供各該有關物品之製造第三項第二第三項第五行修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3215.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3243.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
该事项之文件资料分号被要求者不得规避其余现行法同文林书芬等19人提案第15条文皇杰等17人提案文林月寝等20人提案文卢宪一等18人提案文皇秀芳等24人提案文陈佩玉等18人提案文郭玉琴等16人提案文王美惠等19人提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3246.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3273.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
文中嘉賓等18人提案 均與行政院提案同文林倩琦等20人提案第15條第一項第二行修正供應頓號持有第三項第四行修正輸入販賣供應頓號持有 頓號展示其餘現行法同文林思明等20人提案第15條 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3275.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3287.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
第一項第二行修正供應頓號持有第三項第四行修正為輸入販賣供應頓號持有第五行修正為 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3289.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3314.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
有關事項至文件資料與器具物品其餘現行法通委員邱正軍等24人提案第15條第一項第二行修正為供應遁號展示遁號廣告或持有下列物品第二項第一行修正為任何人不得持有使用類菸品及前項第三款則指定菸品其餘現行法通臺灣民眾黨黨團提案第15條 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3318.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3341.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
第二項修正任何人不得持有或使用前項第二款或第三款之物品第三項第四行修正為盾號廣告盾號持有使用及其他有關事項之文件資料或其他相關證據其餘現行法同文理昆城等19人提案第15條第一項第一行修正為任何人不得持有盾號 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3344.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3362.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
第一項第二款修正電子菸含乙酮米脂類毒品等新型載具及類菸品或其組合原件第二項第一項修正為任何人不得使用前項第二款與第三款之指定菸品其餘現行法通 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3365.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3380.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
為李燕秀等16人提案第15條第二項修正為任何人不得持有使用類煙品其組合原件及前項第三款之指定煙品或其必要之組合原件其餘現行法同為王玉敏等16人提案第15條 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3382.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3408.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
第二项修正为任何人不得使用类烟品或前项第三款之指定烟品不得持有类烟品其组合原件前项第三款之指定烟品或其必要之组合原件第三项第四行修正为广告顿号使用顿号持有其余现行法同委诺志强等18人提案第15条第二项修正为任何人不得持有或使用前项 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3409.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3432.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
第二款及第三款之物品第三項第四行修正為廣告頓耗持有頓耗使用及其他有關事項之文件資料與器具物品其餘現行法同文成經會等二十一人提案第十五條第二項修正為任何人不得使用或持有類鹽品 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3434.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3457.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
其餘現行法通為嚴寬恆等17人提案第15條第二項修正為任何人不得使用或持有類菸品及前項第三款之指定菸品其餘現行法通為王玉明等20人提案第三章之一章名網際網路之管理接著宣讀第15條之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3462.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3481.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
行政院提案 委員林淑芬等19人提案 委員黃潔等17人提案 委員林月琴等20人提案 委員黃秀芳德4人提案 委員陳佩玉等18人提案 委員郭玉琴等16人提案 委員王美惠等19人提案第15條之一 網際網路平台提供者 網際網路應用服務提供者及網際網路內容提供者 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3482.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3507.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
官府以下並稱網際網路業者與網際網路資料有下列第十二條及第十五條第一項鎖定違法情勢官府以下簡稱違法諮詢時應盡善良管理人注意義務為適當管理措施網際網路業者應建立違法諮詢風險管控機制網際網路業者應實施第一項管理措施或依前項風險管理機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3508.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3525.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
限制瀏覽或移除違法資訊自身損害於用戶或第三人者免負賠償責任第一項王靖龍預約者之善良管理人注意義務之認定要檢注意事項管理措施及其他相關事項之準則由中央主管機關定之 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3526.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3552.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
網際網路業者經主管機關通知有違法資訊時應收受通知之次日起二個工作日內限制瀏覽或移除該違法資訊網際網路業者就其業務上貨系統中流程之前向違法資訊網頁資料、行為人資、個人資料及網路使用記錄資料應自收受前向主管機關通知之日起保存180日 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3554.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3580.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
主管機關通知提供該等資訊資料時應予提供為盧縣一等18人提案第15條GD二項第二句文字如下主管機關應依網信網路業者之規模資本額及管理能力分級地定善良管理人住意事義務之定地準則屬於個人或微型文創業者以旅行通知及 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3581.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3599.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
通知後及時移除異物為已逐第七項文字如下中央主管機關依第一項及第四項規定定定管理措施與準則時應會同中央援助民主主管機關針對三地援助民主地區製作並提供符合在地 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3601.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3618.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
族群語言包括包含原住民民族族語之新興菸品或極毒品危害防治宣導資訊以保障偏鄉資訊獲取權益與同行政院提案維毛移民等二審提案第15條之一網際網路資料有本法所定 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3619.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3633.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
違法情勢 括弧以下稱違法資訊時 主管機關應限制接取或領平台提供者應用服務提供者 網際網路接取服務提供者及其他業者 括弧以下並稱網際網路業者 瀏覽 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3636.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3660.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
限制瀏覽或移除與違法資訊有關之網頁資料前項處分內容應記載下列事項一、主以識別違法資訊情勢之網站名稱與網址二、行為人網際網路平台帳號或網際網路協定位置三、主指事實、理由及其法令依據 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3661.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3684.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
四 有付款者付款之內容五 主管機關及其首長署名蓋章該機關有代理人或受任人者須同時與其下簽名但以自動機器作為之大量行政主份得不經署名以蓋章為之六 發文字號及年月日 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3685.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3698.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
7.表明其為行政處分之意旨及不服從行政處分之救濟方式期間及其受理機關主管機關為以執行第一項之限制接取數位發展主管機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3700.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3726.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
教育主管機關通訊傳播主管機關法務主管機關警政主管機關網際網路接取服務提供者應依法協助執行台灣民眾黨黨團罹案第15條之一網際網路業者知悉或經主管機關司法警察機關通知其網站有違反前條第一項規定之商品服務廣告網頁資訊用戶賬號時應及移除下架停止 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3727.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3753.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
登載或採取其他限制接取之必要處置網際網路業者應保存足之辨識違反前項行為人身份之相關資料主管機關或司法警察機關依法要求提供時不得規避妨礙或拒絕為虧成等19人提案第15條之一第二句文字修正為主管機關應通知平台提供者 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3755.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3780.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
第二項詢問文字為前項通知應記載下列事項並刪除第三項文字于同委員王玉明委員等提案文聰嘉賓等十八案提案第十五條之一第五項第二具文字五項應於二十四小時內第六項第三具文字五項發生輸送時應延長保存至裁判確定後三個月于同行政院提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3784.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3802.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
行政院提案委員林淑芬等19人 委員黃婕等17人 委員林月琴等20人 委員黃秀芳等24人 委員陳培語等18人 委員郭玉琴等16人 委員王美惠等19人第15條則有下列情形之一者 主管機關得令網際網路接取服務提供者 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3803.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3824.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
於收受通知次日起二個工作日內完成限制接取或停止解析違法資訊一無從知悉違法資訊之網際網路業者聯絡資訊至無法為前條第五項通知二違法資訊所涉違規情節重大未避免 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3825.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3841.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
犯罪危害擴大或急迫危險而有及時處理之必要三王監獄業者為依前條第五項規定於收受主管機關次日通知次日起二個工作日內限制瀏覽或依出違法資訊違法資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3845.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3873.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
經依前項規定限制接取或停止解析後以更換網域名稱網址或其他技術上逐聲相同規避效果之方法再次出現者主管機關得在通知網際網路接取服務提供者於收受通知次日起二個工作日內完成限制接取或停止解析該違法資訊網際網路接取服務提供者 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3875.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3894.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
就其業務上或系統中流傳之前二項違法資訊、網頁資料或行為人之個人資料及網路使用記錄資料因自收受主管機關通知之日起保存180日主管機關通知 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3895.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3922.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
提供該等資訊資料時應予提供但其他法律另有規定或網際網路接取服務提供者能證明技術上無期待可能性者不在此限主管機關未執行第一項或第二項之限制接取或停止解析數位發展主管機關教育主管機關通訊傳播主管機關科學技術發展主管機關因依法 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3923.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3944.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
協助執行 委員陸先一等十八人提案 第十五條之二第一項 續文第四 舉文字如下 逗號待限制接取或停止解析之手段 應符合比例原則 於同行政院提案委員王玉敏等二十人提案 第十五條之二 網際網路業者經主管機關依前條第一項規定通知後 應於二十四小時內限制瀏覽 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3948.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3960.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
移除違法資訊或有關之網頁資料就如業者對於違反本法第30條第31條第33條及第34條規定者應建立陰害防治違法資訊監測機制並自主辦理限制瀏覽移除違法資訊或有關之網頁資料請要向違法 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3971.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3979.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
資訊網頁資料及與行為人士個人資料及網路使用資料應保留180日以提供主管機關調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3984.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
3994.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
第二項手續前二項修正為前項第三項文字如下網際網路業者應檢理應害防制違法資訊監測機制對涉有違法資訊之餘之網頁資料自主辦理限制瀏覽 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4002.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4023.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
移除違法資訊或有關之網頁資料與同委員王玉敏等提案文中嘉賓本十八人提案第十五條之二第一項序文第二句中得改為因第三句第三款及第二項收受通知之次日起二個工作日內改成二十四小時內第三項 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4024.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4038.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
第三句文字如下分號發生輸送時應延長保存至裁判確定後三個月主管機關通知提供該等資訊資料時應予提供如同行政院提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4040.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4059.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
委員王玉敏等二十人提案第十五條之三網際網路業者及其代表人與中華民國無營業所或居住所且未設立分公司者網際網路業者應以書面指定中華民國境內我國國民依法登記之法人或設有代表人或管理之非法 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4060.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4074.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
人團體為其法律代表並向中央數位主管機關提供法律代表之姓名名稱居住所事務所或營業所電話及電子郵件信箱前向黃金網絡 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4076.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4101.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
業者之業務活動營業或投資行為依其他法律規定需經許可者並應於提報法律代表前取得許可網際網路業者應授予第一項法律代表必須之權限及資源執行下列事項一為網際網路業者指定之送達代收人二告知及協助網際網路業者執行陰害防止措施之法令 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4103.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4123.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
3.其他受網際網路業者委託辦理本法及其相關法令之遵循。網際網路業者有下列情形之一者,中央數位主管機關得以適當方式公告其名稱。1.為第一項規定指定及提報法律代表。2.法律代表待於執行前項第二款告知及協助業義務。 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4125.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4147.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
王俊榮業者為依第一項規定指定及提報法律代表者中央數位主管機關應通知其與其縣內補證委員李坤誠等事就任提案第十五條之三第三項及第四項第二句中央數位主管機關均修正為數位經濟相關產業主管機關予通委員王玉敏等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4148.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4172.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
為王玉明等二十人提案第十五條之四網路業者若為依第十五條之三規定提報法律代表優惠機關對其依第十五條之一做成之行政處分得以電子文件利用網際網路之方式傳送至網路業者以公開揭示指定或網域註冊之電子郵件 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4174.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4202.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
電子表單已為送達前項電子文件由主管機關傳送至網路業者公開揭示指定或網域註冊之電子郵件電子表單後一日發生依法送達通知或使其知悉之效力但有下列情形之一則不再實現一電子文件已傳送而未進入網路業者公開揭示指定或網域註冊之電子郵件電子表單二電子文件已進入 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4203.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4212.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
網路業者公開揭示指定或網域註冊之電子郵件電子表單後一工作日網路業者採明其無 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4213.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4237.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
才明其無法閱讀三 網際網路業者證明電子文件於較早或較晚之時點進入其公開揭示指定或網域註冊之電子郵件電子表單前項代書第一款情形有爭議時由主管機關證明主管機關不能證明者應以適當方式重新送達通知或使其知悉 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4238.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4245.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
第二項代書第二款情形主管機關應另以適當之方式重新送達通知或使其知悉 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4247.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4276.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
第二項代書第三款情形一網路業者證明較早或較晚之時點發生依法送達通知或使其知悉之效力委員李燕秀等十六人提案第十六條第一項第三句文字如下分號未滿二十歲之人不得持有煙品類煙品或其組合原件指定煙品或其必要之組合原件第二項莫句文字為即持有前項物品與同現行法 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4278.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4307.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
行政提案 委員林淑芬等19人提案 委員黃潔等17人提案 委員林月琴等20人提案 委員黃秀芳等24人提案 委員陳佩玉等18人提案 委員郭益勤等16人提案 委員王美惠等19人提案第二十五條之一違反第一十五條第一項第二款規定 製造或輸出類煙品或其組合 原件者處一年以上七年以下有期徒刑 得併科新台幣五百萬以下罰金 但其查獲 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4308.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4329.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
物品數一千件以下且競證未遇一百公斤者處三年以下有期徒刑得併科新台幣三百萬元以下罰金違反第十五條第一項第二款規定販賣展示或供應內菸品或其主和原件者處三年以下有期徒刑得併科新台幣三百萬元以下罰金欺查貨物件數 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4331.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4343.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
100件以下且競證未遇10公斤者處一年以下有期徒刑拘獄或科或病科新台幣100萬元以下罰金前二項之未稅犯罰之 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4345.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4363.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
法人之代表法人或自然人之代理人受雇人或其他從業人員應執行業務犯第一項前項之罪處以各該規定處罰其行為人外對該法人或自然人亦可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4364.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4365.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
第25條之一 第二項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4381.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4406.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
莫三具文之如下但屬供應販賣與他人之行為若行為人能證明其產品來源主動供出上游製造或販賣線索因而查獲者得減輕或免除其刑第三項文之如下前二項之未遂犯罰之且違反第一項或第二項規定於幼兒園國民中小學高中直校周邊兩百公尺內 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4407.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4421.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
製造 輸入 販賣 展示或供應類菸品或其組合原件加重其刑至二分之一 於同行政院提案台灣民眾黨黨團提案第二十六條之一意圖營利 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4424.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4447.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
而製造輸入第15條第1項第2款所定類菸品或其組合原件處1年以上7年以下有期徒刑得併科新台幣500萬元以下罰金欲圖販賣而持有供應第15條第1項第2款所定類菸品或其組合原件者處3年以下有期徒刑拘獄或科活併科新台幣500萬元以下罰金 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4451.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4479.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
犯前兩項之罪有下列情形之一者加重其刑二分之一一販賣或供應與未滿二十歲之人以網際網路軟體通訊軟體社群媒體電子商務或其他主使不特定多數人得以接觸之方式為之三以組織方式反覆經營或跨境運輸方式為之法院之代表人法人或法人自然人之代理人受雇或其他從業人員應執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4481.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4508.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
業務犯本條之罪者除處罰其行為人外對該法人或自然人亦可各該項所定之罰金文中嘉賓等十八人提案第二十五條之一第一項第二句末逗號改為句號第二項文字如下違反第十五條第一項第三款規定製造輸入指定菸品或其必要之主和原件者句號予通行政院提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4509.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4529.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
委員王一鳴等16人提案第26條之一意圖盈利而製造或輸製造或輸入之第15條之一第一項第二款或第三款之物品者處一年以上五年以下有期徒刑得併科新台幣五千萬元以下罰金意圖盈利而販賣或供應第15條之 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4531.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4558.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
第15條第一項第二款或第三款置物品處三年以下有期徒刑居易或科或併科薪台幣1000萬元以下罰金依讀方案而持有第15條第一項第二款第三款置物品其數量包裝分裝價格標示交易紀錄或其他形狀主任非公自用者處兩年以下有期徒刑居易或科或併科薪台幣500萬元以下罰金 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4560.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4577.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
犯前三項之罪有下列情形之一者加重其刑至二分之一一販賣或供應於未滿二十歲之人二以網際網路通訊軟體社群媒體電子商務或其他可使不特定多數人接觸之方式為之 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4578.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4594.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
三 以組織分工反覆繼續或跨境運送方式為之 法人之代表人代理人 受僱人或其他從業人員因執行業務犯第一項至第三項之罪者處罰其行為人外對該法人 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4595.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4623.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
議科以該 各該項鎖定之罰金有前項各款情形之一者得其罰金得加重至二分之一行政人員提案 文林淑芬等19人提案文黃婕等17人提案文林月清等20人提案文盧仙音等18人提案文黃秀芳等24人提案文陳培鈺等18人提案文郭玉琴等16人提案文王美惠等19人提案文鍾嘉斌等18人提案第25條這 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4625.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4639.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
入境旅客違反第15條第一項第二款規定隨身攜帶類菸皮或其組合原件其查獲件數5件以下且進中位逾500公克者處新台幣20萬元以上100萬元以下罰還 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4642.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4661.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
經前項規定處罰一年內再違反者處一年以下有期徒刑拘役或客戶併科薪台幣一百萬元以下罰金刑人提案委員林淑芬等19人提案委員黃婕等17人提案委員林月琴等20人提案委員盧憲一等18人提案委員黃秀芳等24人提案委員陳佩玉等18人提案委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4662.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4686.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
郭益勤等16人提案委員 王美惠等19人提案委員 鍾嘉斌等18案提案第26條製造或輸入業者違反第15條第一項第三款規定製造輸入未經核定通過健康風險評估審查之指定菸品或其必要之組合原件者處新台幣1000萬元以上 5000萬元以下罰還製造或輸入業者以外之人有前項規定情形者 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4687.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4702.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
處清台幣五萬元以上 五百萬元以上罰還文運慶的二十二人提案 文王運命的二十人提案 文陳昌明等三十人提案第二十六條第一項與第二項 第四具文字均修正為銷毀頓耗 退運或沒入 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4704.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4729.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
銷毀其物品業者未借其未改善與同現行法 文成修法等二十人提案第二十六條第一項與第二項第四句文字均修正為銷毀燈號退運或沒入銷毀其物品與同現行法 文一千集等二十二人提案第二十六條第一項第三句文字修正為新台幣兩千萬元以上六千萬以下罰款 第三項 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4731.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4758.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
第三句為儲新台幣十萬元以上一千萬元以下罰還於同線刑法 文許曉清等十九人提案第二十六條第二項文字墨句文字如下 便由中央除外機關將違規之或品墨入與預期三十內統一銷毀之與同線刑法 文羅志強等十件提案第二十六條第一項與第二項第四句文字均修正為回收頓耗墨入頓耗銷毀或退役 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4760.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4784.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
與同現行法為林思敏的二審提案第26條第一項第三句文字為處信台幣2000萬元以上5000萬元以下罰還第二項文字為處信台幣50萬元以上500萬元以下罰還與同現行法為邱正軍的二審提案第26條第一項及第一項第一款及第二款莫句文字為其意圖販賣輸入而持有 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4785.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4799.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
或持有達一定規模以上者一同並增列第三項文字如下第一項所稱持有達一定規模這數量由中央主管機關公告之與同現行法台灣民眾黨黨團第26條第一項與第二項 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4802.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4823.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
第四具文字均修正為違規之物品 沒入並銷毀之 與同現行法 為李坤誠等十九人提案第一項與第二項 第四具文字均修正為銷毀頓耗 推銷或沒入銷毀其物品業者借其為改善 與同現行法 為李岳秀等十六人提案第二十六條 增訂第三項文字如下 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4824.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4851.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
前二項所查獲之類菸品其組合原件或指定菸品其必要之組合原件不會屬於行為人所有與否 沒入並銷毀之 與同現行法委員羅志強等18案提案 第一項與第二項第四句文字修正為銷毀頓耗 退運頓耗 沒入銷毀其物品第二項第三句文字修正為新台幣10萬元以上 500萬元以上罰款 與同現行法 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4855.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4868.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
行政人提案委員 林淑芬等19人提案委員黃潔等17人提案委員 林月琴等20人提案委員盧憲一等18人提案委員 黃秀芳等20人提案委員龔玉琴等16人提案委員 鍾嘉斌等18人提案第30條廣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4870.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4899.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
廣告業傳播媒體業或網際網路業者有下列情形之一處心台幣四十萬元以上兩百萬元以下罰還並利其限期改善藉其為改善者按次處罰但網際網路業者以依第十五條之一第四項所定準則僅善良管理人注意義務為適當管理措施者不予處罰依違反第十五條第一項第二款規定製作廣告接受傳播 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4900.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4923.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
或刊載類菸品或其組合原件二違反第15條第1項第3款規定製作廣告接受傳播或刊載未經核定通過健康風險評估審查之指定菸品或其必要之組合原件委託製作傳播或刊載前項各款廣告之一者並處罰廣告委託人 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4926.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4945.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
文陳培語等十八案提案第30條第一項虛文廣告業者傳播媒體傳播業者或網際網路業者之後增加逗號與同行政院提案文賴日榮等十七案提案第30條第一項虛文手續廣告業傳播媒體業或 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4948.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4950.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
第二款文字第二句如下製作廣告接受傳播或刊載 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4965.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4987.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
指定菸品或其必要之主或原件與同行政院提案委員李博義等16人提案第30條第一項廣告業者或傳播媒體業者有下列執行之意者處信台幣100萬以上500萬以下罰還與同行政院提案委員王美惠等19人提案第30條第一項手續文字如下廣告業東號或傳播媒體業或 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4991.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5016.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
往期網絡業者都好 另第五句 按次處罰並刪除句號 於同行政院提案行政院提案 委員林淑芬等十九人提案 委員黃潔等十七人提案 委員林月琴等二十人提案 委員盧憲一等十八人提案 委員黃秀芳等二十人提案 委員陳飛雲等十八人提案 委員郭玉清等十六人提案 委員王美惠等十九人提案 委員鍾嘉斌等十八人提案第三十一條 製造業 書業 廣告業 傳播媒體業 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5020.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5044.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
網際網路業者或廣告推播委託人以外之人有下列情形之一者處心台幣二十萬元以上一百萬元以下罰還並利其限期改善皆其為改善者按次處罰一違反第十五條第一項第二款規定製作廣告接受傳播或刊載類言品或其組合元件二違反第十五條第一項第三款規定製作廣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5045.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5055.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
接受傳播或刊載未經核定通過健康風險評估審查之指定菸品或其必要之組合原件委內瑞隆等17人提案第31條第1項 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5058.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5081.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
訓練手續如下 傳播媒體業網路廣告平台業者與同線刑法行政提案 委員林淑芬等19人提案 委員黃潔等17人提案 委員林月琴等20人提案 委員盧仙怡等18人提案 委員黃秀芳等24人提案 委員陳佩玉等18人提案 委員郭益勤等16人提案 委員王美惠等19人提案 委員鍾嘉斌等18人提案第32條違反第15條第一項第三款規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5086.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5100.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
販賣展示未經核定通過健康風險評估審查之指定菸品或其必要之主和原件者儲新台幣二十萬元以上一百萬元以下罰還委員請等二十二人提案委員王玉明等二十人提案委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5101.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5116.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
陳超明等30人提案為李昆成等19人提案第32條虛文利益三句文字如下銷毀東號退運豆號或沒入銷毀其物品分號業者借其為改善於同現行法 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5117.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5143.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
文成修法等二十人提案 第三十二條 續文第三句文字如下 銷毀 頓耗 退運或沒入銷毀期物品分號 與同現行法 文零千情的二十二人提案 第三十二條 續文第二句為處新台幣六十萬元以上 三百萬元以下罰款 第一款及第二款第二句均增加持有二字 與同現行法 文零四名等二十人提案 第三十二條 續文第三句如下 回收銷毀或退運 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5145.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5149.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
第一款 第二款 第二具 具首增加 持有二致 於同現行法 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5151.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5178.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
委員王耀明等二十人提案 委員邱正軍等二十四人提案 第三十二條第一款及第二款第二句文字均修正為燈號或意圖販售而持有內燕品或其組合原件 於同現行法委員徐曹欽等十六人提案 第三十二條續文第二句修正為儲新台幣二十萬元上一百五十萬元以下罰款於同現行法 委員李博義等十六人提案 第三十二條續文第二句文字如下儲新台幣四十萬元以 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5179.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5205.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
上 兩百萬元以下罰還 第五句修正委並沒入之 於同現行法 委員王逸川等十七人提案第三十二條 續文第二句如下 處刑台第一百萬元以上 五百萬元以下罰還 於同現行法 委員台灣民眾黨黨團提案第三十二條 續文第三句 文之如下違規之物品沒入並銷毀之 於同現行法 委員王耀明等十六人提案第三十二條 正列第二項文之如下 查獲之 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5206.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5226.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
前項違規物品不問屬於何人沒入並銷毀之 與同先行法委員羅志強等18案提案第32條虛文第二句文字如下處清台幣50萬元以上250萬以下罰還第三句文字為銷毀頓耗退運或沒入銷毀其物品 與同先行法 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5228.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5249.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
刑罪人提案 委員林淑芬等19人提案 委員黃潔等17人提案 委員林玉琴等20人提案 委員盧信義等18人提案 委員黃秀芳等24人提案 委員陳培宇等18人提案 委員郭玉琴等16人提案 委員王美惠等19人提案 委員鍾嘉斌等18人提案第35條之一 有下列情形之一者 而無正當理由者 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5251.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5277.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
儲新台幣十萬元以上五十萬元以下罰還並另期限期改善藉其為改善者按次處罰一網際網路業者違反第五條之一第五項規定位於期間內限制瀏覽或移除違法資訊二網際網路業者違反第五條之一第六項規定為依限期保存資訊資料或為依主管機關通知提供資訊資料三網際網路提供 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5278.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5299.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
往期網路接取服務提供者違反第15條之二第一項或第二項規定未於期間內完成限制接取或停止解析四 往期網路接取服務提供者違反第15條之二第三項本文規定未依現保存資訊資料或未依主管機關通知提供資訊資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5301.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5320.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
委員王一鳴等二十人提案第三十條之一有相應情形者處新台幣四十萬元以上兩百元以下罰還並立即限期改善及其未改善者得按次處罰並得立即連續接取依違反第一十五條之二第一項規定位於期限內限制瀏覽依出違法資訊或有關之 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5322.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5346.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
網頁資料 二 違反第15條則 第三項規定未保留資訊180日或未將資料提供主管機關調查 台灣民眾黨團第32條之一 網際網路業者違反第15條之一 第一項規定未及時移除下架停止刊登或採取其他限制 接取支票處置處心台幣40萬元以上200萬元以下罰還 文理昆城等19案第30條之一 第二款 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5350.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5376.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
違反第15條之二 第二項規定與同文王運民等提案 繼續宣讀第36條文虛巧心等16人提案第36條第一項第三行修正罰還金額處新台幣10萬元以上50萬元以下罰還第一項第五行修正為罰還數字新台幣1萬元以上10萬元以下罰還予以現行法通行政院提案第37條 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5378.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5406.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
違反第15條第一項第三款規定供應未經核定通過健康風險評估審查之指定菸品或其必要之組合原件處新台幣1萬元以上20萬元以下罰還違反第17條第一項規定供應菸品指定菸品必要之組合原件與未滿20歲之人會強迫營誘或其他方式使孕婦或未滿20歲之人吸菸處新台幣1萬元以上20萬元以下罰還原第二項第一為第三項予以現行法同 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5408.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5433.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
委員林淑芬等19人提案第37條 委員黃婕等17人提案第37條 委員林月琴等20人提案第37條 委員盧憲一等18人提案第37條委員黃秀芳等20人提案第37條 委員陳柏宇等18人提案第37條 委員郭怡卿等16人提案第37條 委員王美惠等19人提案第37條委員鍾嘉斌等18人提案第37條 均與行政院提案同 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5436.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5448.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
文成修保等二十人提案第三七條增列第三項依第一項第一款或第二款規定處罰患者其物品沒入銷毀之與現行法同 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5451.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5470.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
為寧願請等二十二人提案第三七條增列第一項第三款三對未滿二十歲之人或孕婦供應第十五條第一項第二款或第三款所規定之物品者應加重處以新台幣二萬元以上二十五萬元以下罰還原第三項第一為第四項並修正為 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5471.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5486.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
据莫增加因加重处以新台币二万元以上二十万元以下罚还同时增列第三项依第一项第一款或第二款规定处罚还者其物品没入销毁之余现行法同为王玉明等二十人提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5488.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5506.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
第三七条,增列第三项,依第一项第一款或第二款规定处罚还者其物品没入销毁之。文成超明等31人提案第三七条与王玉明等20人提案,同文林倩琪等22人提案第三七条第一项第二行,修正罚还金额为10万元以上200万元以下罚还。 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5509.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5532.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
第二項據莫增列處罰其負責人及供應人予以現行法同為黃建豪等17人提案第三七條增列第三項前項前行於一年內在犯者處一第一項規定處罰外主管機關並因命期於三至六個月內不得販賣供應或陳列菸品指定菸品必要之組合原件第四項違反前項規定繼續販賣供應陳列菸品指定菸品必要 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5535.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5561.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
之组合原件者应处新台币十万元以上三十万元以下罚还予以现行法同文明思明等二十人提案第三七条第一项第二行修正罚还金额为十万元以上五十万元以下罚还第二项第三行聚墨增列及现场供应人予以现行法同文明修正军等二十四人提案第三七条 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5562.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5568.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
第一项第二行增列顿号分装煤介运送货代为持有指定原品。 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5570.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5596.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
第二项据莫增列明知为类言品其组合原件或其载具而为未满20岁之人分装媒介运送或代为持有者一同于现行罚同文区巧心等16人提案第37条第一项第二行修正罚还金额为3万元以上50万元以下罚还于现行罚同问李博弈等16人提案第37条第一项第二行修正罚还金额为10万元以上50万元以下罚还 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5598.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5618.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
同時增列第三項違反第一項規定者其所供應之類菸品指定菸品或其組合元件因沒入之予以現行法通談民眾黨黨團提案第三七條第一項第二行修正罰還金額為五萬元以上二十五萬元以下罰還違規之物品沒入並銷毀之予以現行法通 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5621.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5630.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
文理坤城等19人提案第三七條增列第三項一第一項第一款或第二款規定處罰患者其物品沒入銷毀之餘現行法同 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5633.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5655.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
為王玉明等16人提案第三七條增列第三項查獲之第一項第一款第二款違規物品不問屬於何人沒入並銷毀之予以現行法通為羅志強等18人提案第三七條第一項第二行修正罰款金額為五萬元以上同時據莫增列並沒入銷毀予以現行法通 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5662.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5685.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
行政院提案第37條之一違反第15條第二項規定使用持有類鹽品或其組合原件者處心台幣3萬元以上10萬元以下罰還違反第15條第二項規定使用持有味精核定通過健康風險評估審查之指定鹽品或其必要之組合原件者處心台幣2000元以上1萬元以下罰還 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5690.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5714.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
所有委員提案均與行政院提案同行政院提案第38條增列第4款4違反第3條之1規定於販賣菸品場所以外之場所販賣菸品必要之組合原件其與現行法同所有委員提案均與行政院提案同 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5718.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5733.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
行政院提案第40條刪除現行法第三項與現行法同為林淑芬等19人提案第40條為黃婕等17人提案第4條為林月琴等20人提案第40條為盧憲一委員等18人提案第40條為黃秀芳等24人提案第4條為郭玉琴等16人提案第40條 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5746.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5768.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
文王美惠等19人提案第40條文中嘉賓等18人提案第40條 均與行政院提案同文承秀堡等20人提案第40條修正第三項據莫修正為逗號 其物品沒入銷毀之 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5771.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5785.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
文林月琴等22人提案,文王玉明等20人提案,文成超明等31人提案,军运委员陈秀宝等20人提案同。文成培宇等18人提案第40条与现行法同。 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5789.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5808.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
文秋正均等二四人提案第四十條增列第四項違反前項規定持有類菸品其組合原件或其載具者其物品不問屬於何人所有沒入之予以現行法通文奈瑞榮等十七人提案第四十條第三項第一行修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5811.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5827.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
違反第15條第二項規定動號持有或使用同時增列第四項前項類菸品或同條第一項第三款之指定菸品不問屬於何人所有或持有沒入並銷毀之予以現行法通文許巧心等16人提案第40條 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5829.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5848.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
第三项第三行修正罚还金额为新台币1万元以上5万元以下罚还同时增列第四项违反第15条第二项规定持有同条第一项第二款或第三款锁定物品者其物品没入之欲现行法同文理博弈等16人提案第40条修正第三项 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5849.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5870.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
第三行罚还金额为新台币1万元以上5万元以下罚还并没入资同时增列第四项持有第15条第一项第二款类烟瓶及第三款之指定烟瓶者处1万元以下罚还并没入资于现行法同为罗志强等17人提案第40条修正第三项第二行起 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5871.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5892.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
使用類菸品者處新台幣二千元以上一萬元以下罰款沒入類菸品或其組合原件得送主管機關檢查驗之同時增列第四項違反第十五條第一項第三款之指定菸品者處新台幣二千元以上一萬元以下罰款予以現行法同為王毅川等17人提案第四十條 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5894.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5913.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
修正第三項違反第十五條第二項規定持有使用類菸品或同條第一項第三款之指定菸品者處新台幣一萬元以上五萬元以下罰款並沒入之沒入之類菸品或其組合原件得送主管機關或其指定機關購檢查驗之予以現行法同 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5919.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5937.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
談民眾黨黨團提案第四十條修正第三項違反第十五條第二項規定持有或使用類菸品或同條第一項第三款制止零菸品者處心台幣三萬元以上十萬元以下罰款並沒入並銷毀之餘現行法同文理昆城的十九人提案第四十條 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5939.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5961.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
修正第三項莫具為逗號其物品沒入銷毀之欲現行法同文李燕秀等16人提案第40條修正第三項第一行持有遁號使用類鹽品其組合原件或同條第一項第三款之指定鹽品或其必要之組合原件者 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5962.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
5977.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
同時增列第四項前項所查獲之類菸品其組合原件指定菸品或其必要之組合原件不溫屬於行為人所有與否沒入並銷毀之予以先行法通為王玉明等16人提案第40條修正第三項滿20歲之人 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
5981.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
5995.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
第三行逗號或持有類鹽品其組合原件同條第一項第三款之指定鹽品或其必要之組合原件者處心台幣三萬元以上十萬元以下罰款查獲之物品不問屬於何人沒入並銷毀之予以現行法同 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
5996.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6014.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
文羅志強等18人提案第40條修正第三項第一行據莫修正為使用或持有類菸品第三行修正罰款金額處新台幣3萬元以上15萬元以下罰款並沒入銷毀其物品予以現行法通文王美惠等18人提案第40條 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6017.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6039.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
修正第三項違反第十五條第二項規定逗號持有或使用類煙品或其組合原件或使用同條第一項第三款之指定煙品或其必要之組合原件者處心台幣一萬元以上三萬元以下罰還增列第四項前項之類煙品或其組合原件不問屬於何人所有沒入之予以現行法同 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6040.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6063.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
徐巧欣等16人提案第41條修正第一項第三行罰還金額為儲新台幣3萬元以上15萬元以下罰還予以現行法通台灣民眾黨黨團提案第41條增列第三項網際網路業者違反第15條之一第二項規定規避妨礙或拒絕主管機關或司法警察機關要求提供資料者 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6064.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6086.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
處心臺幣五萬元以上二十萬元以下罰還並得獻其令其改善借其為改善者得按次處罰之欲現行法同臺灣民眾黨黨團提案第四十二條第一項第一行據莫修正委違反第十五條第二項或第十六條第一項規定者欲現行法同 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6088.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6117.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
為李燕秀等16人提案第42條增列第4項因第1項情形所查獲之菸品指定菸品或其必要之組合元件沒入並銷毀之予以現行法通為王玉敏等16人提案第42條修正第1項第2行為或違反第15條第2項規定使用類菸品或同條第1項第3款之指定菸品或持有類菸品其組合元件同條第1項第3款之指定菸品或其必要之組合元件者 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6118.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6136.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
同時增列第二項查獲之前項類鹽品其組合原件第15條第一項第三款之指定鹽品或其必要之組合原件不問屬於何人沒入並銷毀之同時第一原第二項第三項為第三項第四項並修正第三項第一行 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6137.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6159.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
未滿二十歲之人無正當理由未依第一項通知接受兼教育者欲現行法同行政院提案第四十二條之一依本法查獲之類煙品其組合原件未經核定通過健康風險評估審查之指定煙品或其必要之組合原件不會屬於何人所有沒入或沒入之 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6160.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6184.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
所有人提案經與行政院提案通行政院提案第42條之二依本法裁處沒入之物品須為適當處理而其費用予中央主管機關公告之以一定金額者由主管機關另受處分人負擔全額費用依前項規定令負擔全額費用之處分應於支付處理費用之日期五年內為之 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6186.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6211.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
但于没入处分确定前已支付物品处理费用者,自没入处分确定之日起算。为年处分等19人提案第42条之二,为黄节等17人提案第42条之二,为宁月请等20人提案第42条之二,为黄秀芳等24人提案第42条之二,为陈培宇等18人提案第42条之二,为郭益勤等16人提案第42条之二。 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6212.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6218.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
委員中嘉賓等18人提案第42條之二與行政院提案同文盧先一等18人提案第42條之二增列第三項 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6227.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6256.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
依本法規定由受處分人負擔之處理費用或因查獲違法物品犯罪所得沒收變價之收入因提撥固定比例專款用於撥充於偏遠地區之校園防毒宣導新興煙品危害衛教及基層醫療巡迴服務與行政院提案同為王玉明等16人提案第43條第一項第二行修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6258.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6286.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
經依第26條或第27條之規定予以行政院提案予以現行法同行政院提案第44條修正第一項第一行本法鎖定行政法予以現行法同為林淑芬等19人提案第44條為林月琴等20人提案第44條為盧鑫等18人提案第44條為黃秀芳等24人提案第44條為陳佩玉等18人提案第44條 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6287.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6296.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
文王美惠等19人提案第44條文中嘉賓等18人提案第44條與行政院提案通團民眾黨黨團提案第44條 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6299.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6324.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
增列第二項主管機關之有違反第26條之一規定之情勢者因移送司法機關偵辦予以現行法通王玉明等16人提案第44條第一項第一項修正本法所定行政法處第35條規定同時增列第二項主管機關之有違反第26條之一規定之情勢者因移送司法機關偵辦予以現行法通 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6326.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6343.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
行政院提案第45条之一,主管机关对于检举查获违反第15条第一项第二款或第三款规定制造输入类烟品其组合原件,未经核定通过健康风险评估审查之指定烟品或其必要之组合原件者。 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6344.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6371.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
得足以獎勵查獲該等違法情勢之查緝機關一同主管機關應對檢舉人身份資料嚴守秘密與訴訟程序一同公務員有洩密情勢因依法追究刑事及行政責任前二項主管機關受理檢舉案件之管轄處理其間保密檢舉人與查緝機關獎勵及其他應遵行事項之辦法由中央主管機關定之 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6373.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6394.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
所有人提案金與行政院提案同行政院提案第45條之二本法中華民國全年全月全日修正之第15條第二項規定實行前非供他人使用而持有類菸品其組合原件未經核定通過健康風險評估審查之指定菸品 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6395.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6412.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
或其必要之组合原件于修正施行之日起一个月内经查获人持有者经依第42条之一规定没入之不适用第37条之一规定处罚本法中华民国全年全月全日修正之 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6413.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6441.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
第25條之一規定施行前製造輸入販賣展示或供應類菸品或其組合元件於修正施行後裁罰者適用修正施行前之規定所有人提案均與行政院提案同行政院提案第47條增列第二項本法修正條文自公佈日施行所有人提案均與行政院提案同 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6446.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6454.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
宣讀完畢先休息到10點半我們再開始審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6500.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6501.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
那個聖基堂的那個玻璃燈 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
7013.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
7038.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
好 現在進行討論事項審查及具體審查行政院函請審議厭害防治法部分條文修正草案等35案之主條審查每條條文先請行政單位說明接著請委員表示意見現在進行本案主條討論先討論第二條 請行政部門做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
7043.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
7058.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
各位委員大家早安那在陰害防治法第二條的大聲一點各位委員早安今天在那個陰害防治法第二條的部分民眾黨黨團有要求在第二條增加數位經濟產業主管機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
7061.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
7080.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
及其他機關之應配合事項那事實上在行政院的院版第15條之二已經明定淹害防治及網際網路管理事項各主管機關應依職長依法配合辦理所以這邊建議維持原條文委員有沒有意見沒有就維持現行條文接下來續審 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
7090.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
7090.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
第三條 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
7091.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
7119.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
請行政機關說明在第三條的部分邱若驊委員版本及黃建豪委員建議在第三條第一項第三款增訂水煙的定義那因為目前水煙是屬於一般的煙品那水煙它的吸嘴過濾器或耗材這些其實供吸煙的行為雖然不是非煙品來說但是依據本法第12條規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
7120.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
7144.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
依然不可以促銷廣告或者是宣傳所以在現行法規裡頭其實已經有規範那此修正條文的版本會跟現行的分類架構重疊或競合所以我們建議還是維持原條文委員們有沒有意見沒有就是維持現行條文接下來續審第七條 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
7147.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
7151.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
在第7條部分 陳昌明委員建議就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
7164.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
7176.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
關於醫療防治法部分條文的修正第七條我們主要要落實內外小婚女及提升產業競爭力 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
7179.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
7206.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
那大家也都了解現在的加熱煙一家廠商是美國一家是日本那我們只有全世界只有兩個國家有健康風險評估就是在美國另外一個就是在台灣但是日本他在日本的時候他沒有健康風險評估那我們如果做這個外銷的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
7207.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
7224.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
第一个台湾的烟草机制造非常高明第二个台湾是电子制造业所以加热烟我一直强调加热烟这一个部分台湾是实在非常有竞争力所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
7225.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
7247.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
列銷的時候在台灣三千五百萬人口依照他們在講這個量不大那外面的鴻海市場很大如果這個加熱因跟加味因要外銷的話只要適合當地國法令的要求應該要像 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7248.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7265.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
藥瓶一樣你在台灣使用的話一定要藥證但是外銷不在此限只要符合當地國的要求也可以所以現在台灣只有幾家煙廠有一家大煙廠已經關掉了 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7265.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7289.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
他覺得在台灣做這樣太沒有競爭力了以前把工廠關掉所以我們要培養台灣的一個競爭力跟那個菸的產業去別人能做我們台灣也能做外銷加強他的競爭力也可以說我們自己要消除我們自己國內不公平的貿易不然實在講 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7290.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7302.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
未來台灣在菸廠的市場尤其台酒公司啊台灣以前講的公案是台灣已酒公司啊他也被受困在這個地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7303.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7328.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
所以他們也期盼能開放外銷這一點我特別跟在場的委員報告我也請我們衛福部你有發表意見要有擔當一點不要說我們的加熱菸、加味菸不以家樸,能以外人我再講嚴重一點如果你這個政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7329.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7357.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
不依家農好不好台灣人是做牛做馬的是很病的才有今天的成果你全部給外人只有美國日本可以進來台灣人自己發揮都沒有力量我覺得這種不對的一種現象請你表達意見一下還有我們的國庫使延平也是你們在管理的也希望能表達一下這是我個人的意見謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7360.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7363.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
您所認為這個我個人表示反對第一個台灣沒有菸農種菸草這種農業和產業所以我們沒有必要壯大 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7379.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7406.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
第二个目前主流都还是外商在经营烟商加热烟的制造商都是外资外商没有必要做到什么多大的规模产业规模要做多大让日本让美国的烟商去做大也没有意义第三个我们自己本土的烟草公司他要做到多大这种烟草烟 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7407.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7412.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
它本身就不是好東西所以我們根本就不需要鼓勵這種產業所以這種產業壯大對台灣 雖然你說是外銷 內銷 外銷分流難道我們不是在期待我們的所有的這種產業大家如果可以產業大家都期待這種產業不要擴大我不是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7434.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7448.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
這個不使人煎煙火說沒有但是我們希望產業不要擴大台灣沒有必要沒有煙草的生產煙商也大多數都是外資全部都是外資目前為止加熱煙都是外資沒必要去把這種產業 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7452.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7455.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
這種傷害健康的產業做成多大規模世界競爭力讓他們可以在台灣製造外商可是不要忘了當有一天這個產業規模大到一種程度的時候會不會反過來 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7468.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7471.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
反過來到10年20年之後有一天會回過頭來要求我們放寬加熱菸的管制標準比如說警語要縮小一點比如說健康那個評估要做簡單一點也有可能啊當一個產業大到一種規模的時候他會回過頭來重修法律也有可能啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7492.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7503.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
所以我只是覺得沒有必要啦我們沒有必要呵抗到這些外資也沒有必要煙草都親口的給這些外國人賣來台灣親口的賣得多也沒必要這種不是好事也不是好東西簡單來說這些都不是好東西跟來破壞健康而已沒必要啦要先讓衛福部說明還是好 那個邱正俊委 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7520.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7545.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
好我在這邊還是要補充一點就是說目前我們台灣的公司我們的台酒公司還有其他的菸廠那在台灣當然不能賣我們現在的目的是說因為這些產業他都有生存的必要也有這個提高工作機會的這個現象就是說如果這個東西萬一沒落了那這些人以後要做什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7546.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7574.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
我想这也养了很多的家庭那今天我们的诉求是你今天我们只是依照他们当地国家的一个标准来生产今天你生产的东西如果卖不出去人家都不要的话那当然就这个就没有意义那当然他要符合当地国家的一个标准那他们当地国家他们都没进我们为什么不做那就像台湾一样你现在开放别人进来你当时为什么不挡呢为什么通风烟为什么还要卖烟呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7575.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7593.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
對不對 你乾脆就把這個整個菸都廢掉嘛如果是這樣的話啦那我們認為是說為了提高我們這個產業的競爭力我們本來就有必要讓我們的產業在地的產業能夠繼續生存以上報告 謝謝好 那請衛福部做說明請林淑芬委員先發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7606.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7610.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
產業沒有什麼就業和生存的問題因為就維持原狀我們不希望它再擴大規模擴大生產我們知道菸商很有力量菸商在立法院的遊說很有力量但是不講話的國人更有力量我們就維持目前的規模就目前台灣有稀的維持住了就已經是很難接受了 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7630.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7645.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
我們不是在希望抽菸的人口下降嗎國健所安政府不是每天在講抽菸有害嗎我們的目標整體國民健康的提升不就是要希望抽菸的人越來越少嗎今天你在拿就業機會這個產業規模變小了失去了就業機會是多少人在就業啊是多少人在就業而且整個國家不就是要往 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7658.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7679.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
抽菸的人口越少的方向前進嗎所以我們現在講現在加熱菸就只有每日兩國現在取得許可就只有這樣子沒必要喝抗這個外商啊煮古早這個外商 菸商在立法院開下去一天有稅大家心知肚明啦煮古早 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7680.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7683.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
所以今天在這裡我們是希望沒有就業衝擊也沒有所謂的產業擴大規模的必要如果維持原狀就是維持原狀我們的終極目標是產業要縮小希望大家都不要抽菸終極目標是促進國民健康是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7703.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7720.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
我感謝林委員非常關心國人的健康如果照你這麼所講的那當時美商的加熱塩、日商的加熱塩、美商的加微塩日商的加微塩就不要擋了 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7721.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7744.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
我們請他們來毒害我們台灣人好我沒有說什麼清高這麼偉大但是最起碼你讓台灣的產業能到外面去競爭怎麼容許外國的企業來台灣來這邊競爭我們自說我們的一個我們可以發展的產業 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7745.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7771.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
我相信全世界很多人在做,只有台灣這樣做體諒,體諒一下那些仍然有工廠生計要養的人我們要衡量自己,我們沒辦法成功我們台灣,你把這個產業發揮出去我相信只有當地的政府不反對,我們為什麼要自己再反對這一些不是要跟你辯論 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7772.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7796.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
我們是要以實際的情形來講如果可以的話那明天全部把那些全部擋下來最起碼給台灣人有一個公平的機會在世界競爭啊台灣還沒成煙草啊啦台灣加熱煙也沒有台灣的公司全部都好康到外國而已啦那你曉得台酒已經做好了在等了多久看不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7797.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7808.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
還有一家他的名字已經叫台酒了不是台灣煙酒他把工廠賣了我只是跟你講實際的情形我們為了一個老闆開放全部報告異議沒有啊我們是外面沒有要吃人沒有要在台灣賣 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7814.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7842.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
不在台灣賣捏只有給我們外銷就不肯這樣沒什麼天良沒什麼道理啦也沒什麼公平沒必要好啦我們尊重你的意見但是我是整個我們國際情勢台灣永遠要在追求進步之中啦當然大家講因為不是好東西所以我講話不是很理直氣壯但是外銷的話我就理直氣壯啦好 今天楊耀維 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7848.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7875.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
我想要請問一下財政部有沒有人來就是說我們國家對於同一樣的東西譬如說商品 菸品那國內的健康風險審查標準跟專攻輸出的商品不同這個會不會在貿易上產生相關的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7877.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7878.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
我想應該先確認這一點懂我問題的意思嗎財政部 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7888.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7913.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
紫菸的話是不是這樣子的情境紫菸也好加24菸米也好就是說他現在的提案是這樣子嘛就是主管中央主管機關公告之指定菸品業者應該要在製造或輸入前向中央主管機關也就是瑞福部申請健康風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7916.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7931.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
評估審查經過核定通過後才可以輸入現在是這樣子現在修法的版本是在後半段加說專攻出口 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7931.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7945.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
也就是說前半 原本的原文看起來是在國內製造或者是國外輸入是必須要經過風險評估的那現在假如說專攻出口的菸品 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7947.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7961.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
就不用這個在可是他還是必須要符合輸入國的標準這個在貿易上有沒有相關的問題對 懂我的意思嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7964.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7979.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
這個部分的話我們可能還要去評估看看就是說因為你如果說以貿易的角度來講的話當然我們在財政部還是有相關的稅制的部分我這個請我們的國庫署來補充一下國庫署 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7985.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
8001.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
呃委員呃國共署補充一下就是說因為這個這個現在這個所謂專攻出口的這一塊不再此現的齁這個涉及到淹害防治政策啦齁所以我們還是尊重衛生福利部的那個權責沒有我我現在問的是那至於說這個這樣的一個例外規定呃會跟這個貿易WTO或者是WHO有沒有什麼相 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
8011.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
8025.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
就是像漢格的部分因為這可能涉及到因為WHO可能衛福部也是比較清楚那WTO的話可能跟經濟部比較相關所以這部分我們這邊可能比較沒有辦法回應經濟部今天有人來嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
8031.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
8056.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
經濟部有沒有辦法我是商業署的代表那個你講那個貿易的部分我比較沒有辦法回覆你那那是不是先保留啊不過我先衛福部到現在針對因為不同的意見衛福部到現在都還沒再做那個回應來衛福部 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
8060.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
8085.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
主席要跟各委員報告那麼關於委員的提案讓這個出口跟國內製造分流管理這樣的這個規範那麼其實確實在國際上也有先例那麼把內銷跟這個輸出那麼做分流的管理這個是有先例確實 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
8087.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
8113.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
但是因為在國內的部分那麼如何去確保輸出的不會流入到國內的市場因為這涉及到兩個不同的主管機關因為輸出這邊是由財政部這邊來主導那麼國內的部分當然由我們來主導所以我是建議我們再討論一下先保留這個條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
8116.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
8132.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
那第七條的話我們就先行保留郭富士他管理的意見出來其實這邊現在銷售是屬於衛福部管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
8133.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
8160.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
製造生產倉儲物流報關事實與查證已經控制得很好了所謂的保留是怎樣的保留你到底是採取諸主的意見還是模糊態度的意見我告訴你講得清楚這個是只有外銷而已只有外銷而已要考量清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
8162.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
8182.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
我希望這個要表達得很清楚但今天的表達我是覺得有一點模擬兩可所以我消耗到什麼不可以你們藥也是兩種啊你在台灣的藥一定要有藥證啊他要外銷的時候你有沒有管理如何管理就是跟菸的一樣啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8188.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8196.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
如果不同意要保留我們也可以再持續溝通沒有問題來接下來請我們林書文委員看這個狀況會產生一種狀況就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8200.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8225.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
國內的要做健康風險評估外銷的不用做健康風險評估到時候菸草是不一樣的菸草因為你同一種菸草或是同一種製造他就做過健康評估了他就繼續做就好了他外銷也繼續做就也可以外銷了那為什麼需要切割需要做跟不需要做顯然這個菸草的風險是不一樣的內含物的風險是不一樣的所以這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8230.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8249.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
如果是同一種同一種東西都做過評估了那就是同一規格就出去了所以如果萬一外銷的又流回台灣國內這個傷害是很大的因為破壞整體我們整個開放加熱菸最核心的把關的機制就是健康風險評估從外銷變回流到內銷來 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8254.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8271.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
這有沒有可能 不管是地下的 水貨的 或是怎麼樣的管道跑出來那徒增一種治安上的困擾啊那你增加了未來取締上的業務啊所以這個沒問題 只要一堂娘自己的課程嘛幫台灣這個社會製造一個可能存在的風險嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8278.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8282.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
所以這個外銷不用做,為什麼要做?因為他用比較賣的鹽炒,比較長期、比較長期、比較熟的,就是這樣啊。啊,比較熟的,放一個品牌還不可以倒回來,招數倒回來,那台灣政府不就還要抓招數,還要抓那些未發的沒的? |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8295.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8305.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
然後輸的人,是說港拼白,健康風險危害不一樣耶所以這個東西是沒必要,因為種菸草,我們菸草也被外國賣我們的菸商家的菸木精也是外商啊未來開放下去,然後又途徑幫台灣社會製造這個困擾本來沒一事嘛,本來無一事,何必惹成哀呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8324.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8342.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
我覺得這個有偏見我一直強調一件事情這件事情台酒公司也一直拜託各位委員但是他公家的關係他不好意思來台酒公司有沒有人來下次叫台酒公司來來表示意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8344.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8350.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
現在這個問題產生在哪裡我也覺得莫名其妙看起來是非常的照顧台灣人的健康那有為了政府就應該擋掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8365.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8387.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
全世界只有美國跟台灣設立一個健康風險評估我一直在強調這一點這個怎麼來做怎麼有這樣的一個東西出來日本在他的國內也沒有健康風險評估台灣人怎麼很多人都去跑到日本去買帶了水後回來 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8388.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8411.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
好不好不要說台灣人不行台灣人現在也已經守道了煙的品質大家也要競爭才有人要去吸去抽煙就對了你不要說這樣就是危害美國人跟日本人就不是危害我們台灣那這個理不通嘛總要給人家一個競爭跟生存的機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8414.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8420.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
雖然我不是委員會的但是大家在處理這件事情要有公平公正之心 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8421.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8445.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
如果這樣子講我也很難講反對當然每一個都有理由是不是互換他們所有這個過程裡面已經通過了就讓他通過我們也不反對但是最起碼留給台灣一個外銷的機會那些公司都很大台灣只剩下那一口飯人是在吃 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8447.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8465.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
吃魚吃肉,我們是在喝湯而已,這樣就沒有這個機會了為什麼我有時候我們一個菸草商會的一個喪心啊別的國家怎麼不進,只有台灣要這樣子做法我相信別的國家有可能,他們也是要打外銷啦好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8465.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8471.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
對 你講的沒有錯 所以要搞外銷當產業大到是外銷去賺錢的時候那個國家本地對菸廠的管制就會重清所以日本為什麼不需要做健康風險評估因為他們是做好了菸再外銷的所以產業做到大到是可以外銷的時候呢他們本地的法律法規自動會重清管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8492.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8494.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
如果有一天台灣的煙草台灣的加熱煙大到規模以上的時候我相信他們會回頭改台灣的法律要重清因為這就是事實啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8506.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8525.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
保護外國的大企業我們不必要台灣研究發展我們也不要我們不要讓美日煙傷擴大所以我們也不要讓美日的煙傷拿到好處所以我們不要讓美國日本的煙傷拿到好處什麼人都一樣我們要以消滅煙草產業為目標我們希望大家都戒煙為目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8535.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8545.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
把每日整個全部取消掉台灣的煙草全部取消掉可以啊來啊我也贊成來可以來提案我馬上給你連署禁止加熱煙最好連所有的煙瓶都禁掉你叫圖利煙商啦你就在圖利煙商啦明明就是圖利煙商啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8562.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8565.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
煙傷拿的錢來遊說立法院很多啦有沒有拿煙傷的錢自己心知肚明啦對 所以我們就沒必要喝抗價煙傷啦我們沒必要喝抗價煙傷啦沒有必要喝抗價煙傷啦好 那個楊耀偉 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8593.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8610.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
法律本身不是真理是價值的判斷所以我看是這樣子我剛剛好像聽到說我們只要專攻輸出國外的藥品的審查機制跟在國內的是不一樣的是不是有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8614.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8640.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
因為在我們的藥事法裡面有這個規定所以不論因為藥廠都是有主管都是衛福部、食藥署在主管所以不論是專攻輸出或者是規定都是有衛福部管那這個呢是比較麻煩他就變成是跟菸酒管理法那邊所以我們要再跟產生部對一下對所以我剛才才提議說保留那執照品委員可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8642.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8665.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
誤解我的意思所謂的保留就是把這一條條文呢輪到下一輪然後也讓這個有跨部會的問題嘛也讓跨部會先先把相關的問題擬情再繼續審我所謂的保留是這樣子保留到下一輪因為未完大概在審法案的時候會有兩輪以上的討論的機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8670.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8677.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
這是我的建議不過我覺得衛福部也先回應因為剛剛有兩個層次第一個層次是到底菸 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8679.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8702.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
對人的健康有影響那到底要不要再有擴大這第二個是如果說今天國內國外出口跟國內的都有依照我們自己的風險評估的那樣子到底又可行與否所以這兩個層次我覺得至少第二個層次是不是可以先你們先回應一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8706.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8733.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
因為各國他對於這個這個談的是加熱菸那各國對加熱菸的管理原則是不一樣有的是全面的開放有的是全面的禁止也有一些是向我們國家採取經評估後許可就是用健康風險評估來做管理所以各國的規範是不一樣所以才會有其他的國家會採取在這個菸品上的這個分流的 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8734.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8744.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
措施就是出口跟國內使用的這個不同規範那因為在這一個如果這裡專攻出口不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8745.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8766.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
陰害防治法的規範那就會回到菸酒管理法的規範那我們只是從國人的健康把關這裡要避免的就是這個菸不能夠流入到這個國內的市場所以我們需要再跟這個財政部這邊稍微再對一下相關的後續的這個流向管理這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8768.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8794.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
那如果說因為陳昌明委員提的是假設是出口的菸瓶就不在此限要符合輸入國的那個法規可是如果說假設專攻出口的那個菸也是要經過我們的菸酒管理法的中央主管機關去核准也是要去做風險評估的話那這兩個的你們的看法是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8796.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8810.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
一種還是要經過一個事實上是不用那還是可以去因為如果不在此限的話呢那就是回到菸酒管理法去因為他還是菸品的 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8811.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8838.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
就是我們在這個法裡面有菸品跟類菸品那菸品裡面有指定菸品那類菸品就是電子菸全面是禁止的那菸品裡面有傳統的菸品跟指定菸品指定菸品在我們這邊就是需要做做這個風險評估那麼但是它還是屬於菸品好那所以我們這裡不在此現在會回到這個菸品的管理就是菸酒管理法好來署分委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8843.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8849.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
抱歉 我講很久我只要講一句話就好了就現行的法律它也可以出口它不是不能出口 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8852.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8864.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
他現在做健康風險評估以後的菸不能出口嗎當然可以出口啊只是成本比較貴吧成本比較貴吧沒有競爭力那我現在講大家講本篇筆大家講得如火如荼不要忘了國際癌症研究機構IARC他們已經將菸草列為人類確定致癌物是第一級致癌物跟本篇筆是一樣的東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8884.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8895.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
所以大家要記住它是一級致癌物再來就現行它做好就可以出口了又沒有說它不能出口它現在就可以出口了只是它要做健康風險評估這樣就差在哪裡成本啦那煙草品質不一樣成本不一樣所以重點是在這裡本來就可以出口產業本來就是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8920.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8930.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
我們對問題要了解就是生產加熱塩跟煙瓶以前是沒有健康風險評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8932.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8959.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
為了美國貨要進來為了日本貨要進來為了要獨佔這市場再加一個健康風險評估然後我只問一個問題這個問題我回答林委員它現在煙瓶的製造裡面你要做加熱煙做加味煙一定是要 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8960.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8987.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
通過健康風險的一個評估但是日本自己本身就沒有那個健康風險的評估在別的地區都沒有健康風險的評估這個是我們自我的奢選我需要能了解一點因為這樣子有了一個健康風險的評估所以沒有辦法外銷那我的東西很好 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8992.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9008.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
這個今天也不能再講誰的對跟錯啦反正政府的政策這樣我們就不要去惹這個政策啦讓給台灣真正努力在工作的人啦能去外銷啦我只能暗示到這一點啦不想把以前的帳翻出來了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9013.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9024.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
那個部長再講一下部長我剛剛楊藥委員講的就是我們的藥品在這個國內使用跟國外的標準有沒有一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9025.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9046.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
有的不一樣有的還是不一樣有國外專用為什麼要分國外專用跟國外專用因為有些各國的管理不一樣譬如說我們很多的中藥就是一個例子在台灣有中藥在國外他沒有中藥他就是食品那有些藥呢他是專攻輸出他沒有國內藥證 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9049.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9073.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
也就是說他在國內不能賣嘛不能賣他沒有藥證那他就可以賣國外嘛那我們現在提的是說這個產業我們今天沒有這個不是說當然在國內我們當然要符合我們國內的規定那如果他符合他國外的規定的時候為什麼不讓他做連生產都不讓他生產我就覺得很奇怪啊對不對這個是什麼原因不讓他生產 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9075.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9080.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
沒有什麼不讓他在我就是說因為我們在陰害防治法裡面主要呢是 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9082.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9110.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
煙品 傳統的煙品對 我們的規定是國內的嘛 對不對你要進來或者在國內販賣當然就要經過這個健康風險評估這個我們都贊成我們都沒有反對的意思但是我只是想問為什麼他要這個製造出口出口啊 到他那個指定國家他為什麼我們不允許他生產就不行啊 可以嗎我現在講的就是可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9111.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9135.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
就是說因為出口的部分它是回到那個菸酒管理法去的不是在我們菸害防治法去處理出口啦出口是那個菸酒管理法去處理所以它可以嗎它現在就是不讓它生產嘛現在就是這個問題啦我們現在講的其實我們希望說大家坐下來談 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9136.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9157.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
就是說我們不是要讓他在國內賣只是讓他這個企業能夠繼續生存就這樣而已嘛應該現在談的是製造啦對啊就是這個因為第七條談的就是製造啦對因為這個是要出口所以沒有這個輸入的問題嘛為什麼你在製造的時候你可以出口呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9158.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9187.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
國內的話以國內藥事法的管理就是他的也是從製造端去看所以如果你是專攻這個國外的那要取得主管機關許可之後那麼他就可以製造主管機關是誰那個是食藥署那煙呢煙這個沒有因為煙品的部分是這樣煙品傳統的煙品我們沒有許可都是直接回到 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9188.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9204.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
菸酒管理法在本法裡面沒有這個許可制那麼只有在指定菸品沒有沒有沒有製造我們不管的我們是只有在指定菸品的部分在上次修法的時候才有這個製造前的風險評估審查後 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9205.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9231.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
通過才能夠製造可以參考我們的醫藥的部分他可以這樣處理為什麼菸不能處理我們今天是當然你要進入台灣市場當然要符合台灣目前的規定這個我們都贊成都沒有問題只是說我們要出口的東西是不是就符合他當地的規定就可以了 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9231.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9255.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
那當然這個你剛剛講的是不是有回流的問題這個回流的問題本來海關平常都在稽查本來就只是稽查那當然他如果有發現這種狀況是不是又有另外一個方式處理可以重罰或者是停止生產怎麼樣這個東西我們都可以討論我覺得是這樣子其實我剛剛表達的也是這樣因為他的菸廠一樣是在國內 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9257.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9281.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
他不是境外菸廠這個是國內的菸廠那他可能會製造的時候如何杜絕不要流入國內他一定是要出口的這個是我們要再跟這個菸酒管理法的主管機關我們再核對一下我們相對應的這個規範跟他的法則這樣財政部今天來的與會的能不能回應這一題財政部 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9293.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9307.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
報告委員就是說目前我們有關於健康風險評估要通過了才可以產制加熱菸這是定在那個菸害防治法裡面那我們的菸酒管理法呢還有菸酒稅法是沒有這樣的規定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9309.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9335.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
那如果說今天這個法如果是有通過的話那我們後續就會配合去修正我們的菸酒製造業許可的一個申請書表來以利業者申請然後業者要取得我們合法的許可執照才可以產製專供外銷的指定菸品這個是現行的管理機制去運作以上先這樣說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9343.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9365.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
來 我們的書偉我兩個問題請教部長第一就是我們的韌性醫療那我們的藥品台灣做的藥品如果要外銷那一定是FDA approve是要台灣都評估過了所以台灣都要拿到license才能外銷是不是沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9369.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9384.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
他有的是這樣這個他已經在某一個國家拿到藥證但是他的這個在國內沒有申請這個藥證他還是可以經過許可之後可以製造外銷所以就是說連外銷專用 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9386.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9396.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
藥品那麼嚴格他在台灣如果沒有去申請藥證但是在譬如在比利時在哪一個上市就很多藥是這樣來的所以我要問你這個問題就是在台灣沒生產但是他在國外有種那這個他就可以製造就直接銷出去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9402.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9418.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
那另外一個就是顏料藥我們現在在鼓勵顏料藥嘛顏料藥那更是連批要都沒有顏料要做出來現在我們很多像中華什麼他們的顏料都是銷美國因為在台灣成本太高嘛所以要顏料藥的部分怎麼樣也是這樣嘛所以大家了解一下那第二個問題就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9426.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9433.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
也聽到台灣菸酒他們的抱怨台灣的菸商的抱怨在醫生的立場是大家不要吃分啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9436.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9445.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
但是這14個問題在這他們說他們今天沒有機會參加健康風險評估因為他們沒辦法做所以沒選票沒辦法做實驗的對照組等等那這個是不是也是事實不一定他們完全沒機會做健康風險評估有這個事情嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9461.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9489.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
報告委員事實上他們已經有把資料送進來送審只是他的資料相對不完整所以他目前還在進行相關的就是分析跟實驗那我們當然希望他近期可以把資料再送進來委員會讓我們的專家委員送審所以事實上是有資料的所以資料不完整資料不完整 資料太少之前的資料有一些有異議所以委員認為那個需要再釐清好 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9491.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9497.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
好 林淑芬委員 等一下再陳昌明委員不好意思喔 我本來是不想再講的 講都一樣嘛但是你一直提原料藥啦 台灣的藥品 台灣沒藥證 然後單純做外銷藥是什麼 藥是救命的 是治療疾病的菸草是什麼 菸草是傷害健康的 是殺人的 一級致癌物的 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9515.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9516.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
這兩種東西怎麼可以直接拿起來說你看藥可以這樣子分流然後不管是就出口 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9523.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9528.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
現在我是說因為菸這個東西你雖然是要分流理論上是分流但是它未來這個未來它還是有可能會回銷到台灣那我們本來沒有這一種問題嘛那你現在弄了會有這種問題產生我們不必要替台灣社會增加這一個冒險嘛第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9548.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9555.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
第二個 現在你就可以出口了 你是不能 沒有經過健康風險評估是不能製造 而不是不能出口那你就用一個高品質的啊 世界競爭力的 你既然要出口你就一樣的風險評估過後 你本來就可以出口的 你現在去出口嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9571.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9583.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
對不對 是這樣啊 你現在不是可以出口的你現在如果做出來 就可以出口但是你現在是不能做 不能做不能做的原因是因為你沒有經過健康風險評估而剛才署長有講 他們有送健康風險評估到 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9590.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9596.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
這個國建署是沒有通過沒有通過嘛所以你照這個法律來講大家都沒話說就不要製造風險但是你不要說我要法律上的差別待遇然後就要開放 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9607.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9612.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
不然我也同意全面禁止加熱菸你提案我共同提案我們一起共同提案來我也可以支持最好是這樣子我們是要健康促進重點是要健康促進蘇清泉剛才說從醫生的角度是希望大家都不要抽菸從國家政府的角度也是希望大家都不要抽菸從一個母親的角度我也希望大家都不要抽菸 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9636.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9664.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
好 陳昌明委抱歉 給我再講最後一次抽菸你講的壞事很多但是我根據資料裡面它不是最重要的因為我這個話我不能講真正的致癌物是我不能講的並不是抽菸是主要致癌物那現在這些菸廠要外銷它如果在當地的取得核准函 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9665.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9689.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
那我們能不能外銷跟藥一樣嘛比如說顏料,顏料藥也是一樣全世界的大外商,大菸商都沒有自己種草籽菸葉都在國外種,它本國都沒有種因為菸葉它的生產地區會不一樣那今天當然講到抽菸是不好你看我講話比較吞吞吐吐 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9692.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9694.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
為什麼選票會流失啊但是我要老實講啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9696.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9723.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
我們要給台灣的產業一個奮鬥的機會啊別人能做我們不能做台灣也不過三家你到印尼看了幾十家到美國也是幾十家你到中東看了也是幾十家那你們為什麼限制台灣給它去一個外銷的機會我們為什麼要制服手腳讓產業不能出去外面的競爭別人的產業可以毒害我們台灣的人民 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9724.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9751.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
我們自己以下台灣的水準很高啊怎麼叫做我們會去危害到別人別人還可以危害到台灣百姓台灣的人民那我們外交你又把它扣到說危害了那不忍 我跟你提如果加熱煙 共體全部禁止 我支持啊你不等 你停我一定簽 我幫你連市完成我跟妳講喔 講話順話喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9753.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9771.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
好不好我加熱煙全部在台灣租屬我租屬我這個地方不能生產還有別的地方可以生產不怕共體全部加熱煙不要進來我明天就提案你一定要共體在前面 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9773.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9780.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
好不好我沒有給你全面禁止加熱菸我沒有給你供體我就是小狗我一定提案出來全面禁止討論這個沒有意思啦我們是產業交通給台灣人你說的一定要拿來給我供體 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9796.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9815.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
那如果要全面禁止就沒有必要在這裡討論要開辦明天大體共同要提案全面禁止加熱煙了那今天在這裡你這一條就沒有必要修正了林委員如果我們要禁止加熱煙啊今天在這裡沒有在說加熱煙會擴散會增產沒有必要嘛你要能受得了 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9823.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9830.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
我明天我就提案出來你今天明天提案今天就不要審這一條這一條應該不要審了好那今天這一條不要審了對啊全面禁止了這一條不要再審了對啦今天這一條不要再審了 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9846.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9863.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
來 今天這一條你沒有立即調修證不要審了你應該撤案 你不撤案你就小狗 你騙人你今天堅持這個 明天用那個騙兩位委員 我想 我要先請你們兩個發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9868.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9873.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
你這樣說假的嘛我是真的反對加熱源你是假的你是假的你是假反對你如果真的反對今天這條你就要撤案今天這一條你要撤案 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9884.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9891.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
今天這喝糖煙場的你要撤案今天這一條就不要再審了今天這一條就應該要撤案第七條不要審第七條不要審 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10265.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10287.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
好 現在繼續審查那第7條我想剛剛因為牽扯到兩個部會衛福部跟我們的財政部還有各方意見都沒有取得共識所以本期裁定本條保留請相關部會持續溝通協調那接下來我們續審第8條請行政部門說明來第8條行政部門 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10300.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10321.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
好那個跟委員會報告因為第8條因為在第3條的名詞定義並沒有新增水淹這一項所以建議這個第8條就這個不修正好第8條委員有沒有要表示意見沒有的話我們就維持現行條文接下來續審第9條請行政部門說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10323.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10346.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
第九条在卢献英委员的版本有加注就是不得使用或加注建议的部分纳入任何宣称减害非燃烧较低风险替代止烟等文字那因为现行的条文已经有规范不得加注其他有误吸烟无害健康或危害轻微致余力的文字哦 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10347.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10355.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
那我們認為這樣已經可以含括委員他提到的容易誤解的這些文字所以我們建議用行政院的版本通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10359.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10377.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
委員會補充 這一條主要行政院的版本跟很多的委員有一致性的就是我們過去原來只對菸品它的名稱還有它的外包裝也就是它的容器那麼有要求在標示上有一些要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10378.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10397.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
那麼但是呢對於上次修法的時候呢漏了這個指定菸品它的組合原件的外包裝它沒有這些標示的規範所以這一次主要是針對指定菸品也就是加熱菸的外包裝這個容器組合原件的容器 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10398.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10423.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
上次只有到煙瓶 煙瓶就是包含加熱煙也是一個煙瓶的外包裝但是它的組合元件這個加熱器的部分呢它的外包裝沒有規範到標示上的要求所以這一次的修法主要是針對煙瓶指定煙瓶必要之組合元件把這個組合元件也納入規範那麼很多的委員的版本都有 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10424.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10453.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
一樣的這個提案這也是一致性的至於另外呢這個盧委員這邊新增的這一些要求說明的那麼如同剛剛署長的說明所以這個條文我們建議按行政院版本通過部長等一下請你說明因為這邊寫的是指定菸瓶的必要的組合要件究竟必要是如何認定哪些屬於必要那個組合原件哪些是一般 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10454.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10480.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
可以簡單一併說明我們先請黃正旭委員發言完之後陳金輝委員發言好謝謝謝謝主席針對這一條我們原則上會支持有關於指定菸品的組合原件那什麼是必要等一下也麻煩在部長這邊再說明不過我們是希望有一個修正動議這修正動議就是在第二項的最後有關於這些圖示的面積 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10482.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10502.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
這次是為此50%不過我們認為這個50%相對來講應該是不夠不夠的理由希望把它改成85是因為其實全球已經有140個國家還有地區通過並執行鴛鴬容器印製警示圖文的政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10502.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10517.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
那這些國家包括在這個相對對於國際防菸食物紐西蘭泰國香港印度等等都將這個圖文的這個警示面積呢超過85%的門檻 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10519.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10544.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
那東帝文跟土耳其甚至高達92.5%並且還全面採用寫實具有禁汗液的煙害圖片剛剛林書文一直在強調我們希望台灣的民眾如果有更多可以被告知也能夠得到警告的話希望能夠讓這樣的這個對煙品的需求可以持續的減少來保護國民的健康 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10545.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10571.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
那目前雖然我們是實施50%的這個警示圖的面積在127個國家裡面算是中後段班那如果我們能夠把它調到85%的話我們就有機會進到這個前段班所以我們很希望透過這些警示圖的提升的這個面積讓國際也讓民眾知道台灣對於這個煙害的防治是 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10572.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10599.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
非常有积极的所以这部分我们也希望能够得到大家的考量把它改成85%以上好 因为委员发言完之后有好委员发言谢谢主席这边要呼应一下王正旭委员所提出那我也有提一个第九条的修正动议根据这个世界卫生组织指出这个烟瓶的容器如果硬质大幅健康警示图文畏惧经济性 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10599.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10621.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
高曝光率而且可以直接接触吸烟者是一个好的宣导方式那也是有效的防治烟害的策略之一我们去看了之前行政院曾经提出来的修正草案是111年的时候当时行政院提出来的修正草案就有明定 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10622.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10647.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
煙品容器的警示圖面積為85%但是在112年1月12三讀的時候又調整回50%想詢問一下當時是因為什麼把你們原本自己提出來的草案做了修改另外也想請問官員未來有沒有要對你們以前曾經有的這個草案來進行調整對謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10651.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10673.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
好接下來請有號委員發言後就我們的林淑恩委員發言來麻煩有號委員好謝謝昭偉那當然今天來這邊就是審查這個原本當初是想說是針對之前大家一直都會關注這個毒價跟毒品入侵效應這個電子菸的部分大家今天做這個延安防治法的一個修正草案那只是說當然相關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10675.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10700.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
條文應該要儘速通過就是有關於電子菸這個獨駕的部分包括陸星校園但是就是感覺這個過程中像這一條啊所以也跟這個獨駕跟陸星校園其實也沒有相關啊那其實這個部分在過去也已經其實在兩年多前曾經李克森委員在的時候也被討論過了那當然說那時候吳釗金署長那時候有提到說這個圖示其實並沒有直接的關係啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10702.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10720.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
但是回頭來講我還是建議我們今天是不是可以盡可能聚焦在因為像交通委員會獨駕的部分也都剩完了今天在厭害防治法的部分是不是還是聚焦在獨駕跟毒品入侵校園跟電子菸的部分才是符合民眾期待還讓他競速通過其他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10721.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10735.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
不是直接相關的部分是不是就不一定要在這次的會議中還要有那麼多的一個交鋒爭執那當然說是希望能夠盡快回歸到獨家跟獨品獨銷校園的這個電子驗的部分那這個建議謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10736.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10763.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
你認為這個沒有相關我認為其實主要還是回歸在獨家跟電子菸的部分那其實像今天這些加熱菸的部分其實當然是有相關的是因為它是菸品但是並不是當初原本要排在獨家跟陸行校園的這一塊我覺得這塊應該是要優先被解決的那如果說行政院院板其實也有官員剛才也直接也點頭了就是說如果說把這些部分全部都全部都在這裡面去做討論當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10764.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10778.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
法案法條都值得被討論啦但是問題是這個毒價跟那個毒品入境效應是大家現在優先要解決的那所以如果說把這個部分都在裡面一次討論的話他重要的事情反而因為這樣子的拖到不過這一個我認為還是很重要為什麼因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10783.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10801.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
還是要多加宣找減少到抽菸事實上甚至當初這些菸品有加一坨米子的問題也是跟菸有關係嘛所以才會希望說它的指令就是所有的必要的那個組合元件事實上也一併能夠去標示好那接下來請林淑芬委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10802.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10812.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
好我們雖然這次大家都聚焦在這個電子菸的部分但是因為加熱菸它本身也是致癌風險物致癌的風險物質所以我想也是不能忽略的那這個東西有共識我覺得我們跟王振旭委員還有陳金輝委員剛才的發言大家都有共識所以這個不會爭執我們全面的支持把這個警示的面積提高到85%我們全部都支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10827.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10840.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
這很重要因為現在加熱菸經常販賣一種好像很優雅的形象不論是在日本的菸商或是美國的菸商然後看起來讓年輕人覺得說抽菸是一件很優雅的樣子絕對不可以我們希望在這個所有的包裝組合裡面都讓人家看到抽菸會生病會致癌 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10849.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10877.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
所以我們這個不會浪費時間因為全面有共識大家不會再爭執了全面提高圖示警示提高到85%好請衛福部說明因為我剛剛提的那個必要的是如何認定哪些是必要的組合原件還有一個是王振旭委員提的那個85可信與否好跟委員會說明那麼我們這邊的文字所稱的必要之組合原件指的就是核准因為指 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10878.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10906.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
在我們審查這個指定煙品的時候他必須把他的煙柱跟他的所謂的這個加熱器這個組合元件我們稱為必要組合元件我們是一起核准的所以他有直接的對應關係啦所以這個定義上是很明確那我們這次只是增加這個組合元件本身的外包裝跟傳統煙品一樣必須要有警示的圖文至於這個增加這個警示圖文 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10907.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10926.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
面積的部分我們尊重這個委員會最後的決定支持好來各位人針對王振旭委員提的有沒有大家先確定一下那個王委員的修正動議 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10934.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10943.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
沒有的話我們就照行政院提案及委員王振旭修正動議修正通過那接下來續審第10條部門說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10955.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10966.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
這個條文呢主要是這個陳昌明委員的提案那也是一樣就是採分流的管理那因為之前第7條已經保留了建議這個條文先行保留如果第10條因為跟第7條事實上是有聯繫剛剛第7條已經保留的話那第10條我們也先行保留那接下來續審第13條 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10985.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
11011.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
請行政部門說明第13條的部分只有王美惠委員的文字的部分有一個逗號我們建議維持是或那我們建議用行政院版本通過就好了13條各位有沒有意見因為只有一個王美惠委員提案沒有的話我們就照行政院提案通過接下來去審我們的13條之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
11014.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
11041.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
行政部門請說明13條之一委員的提案均支持行政院的版本所以建議以行政院版本通過13條之一各位委員有沒有要表達意見各位沒有的話我們就13條之一照行政院提案通過接下來續審第15條 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
11044.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
11067.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
第15条的部分修法的重点主要是在于就是持有的部分不得持有那在委员的版本里面邱乐华委员有增订一个水烟的部分那因为刚刚已经就是在水烟是一般性的烟品做管理所以建议这个部分也是维持行政任版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
11068.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
11091.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
那另外在許多的委員他在持有的部分他增列像是林倩琦委員他增列在第一項跟第三項那林思明委員也是增列在第一項跟第三項那在這裡我們認為在這邊增列持有可能會將一些類似菸品容器像是糖果玩具這些等等擴張解釋 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
11093.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
11122.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
那邱振均委員版本在第一項甄列詞有也會有類似的一個問題所以我們會建議就是照行政院的版本去通過那另外就是李昆城委員他也有增加就是在第一項第二款就是電子菸含依托米子毒品等新興載具那因為電子菸不管是不是含毒品目前都是屬於類菸品已經涵蓋在現行條文我們也建議以行政院版本通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
11123.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
11139.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
那此外就是陈金辉委员其他的关于持有的部分都有类似目前就是避免就是是或管制会扩张到近似烟瓶形状的这些物品所以我们都是建议以行政院的版本通过 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
11141.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
11158.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
這一條還是要因為上次沒有很清楚答覆我這邊也就是說如果整個的有沒有建立完整的未來證據採證標準跟舉發流程比如民眾如果檢舉的時候衛生局如果到場前 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
11159.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
11186.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
違規的人已經離開的話或只有照片影片如果沒有辦法確定身份的話那你主管機關怎麼去認定這件事情所以你們已經有未來會去建置這些很清楚的東西嗎這是第一個第二個是因為這個體積非常小如果放在包包裡面那你也不可能隨時去做收身的東西因為不管是衛生局的人員或警察都沒有一般性的收身的一些權限的話那民眾如果拒絕或者事實上是他也否認 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
11187.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
11204.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
那你第一線人員怎麼去認定這些那你們有沒有已經想好這些事情未來你的執法權能不能足夠那是不是會去跟內政部去共同確定明確的那個執法的那個方式要 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
11207.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
11234.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
也是跟我有相同嗎好 那來王玉琳委員好 有關於第15條的修正我想這個不分朝野的委員大家跟主管機關都有共同的修法立場就是嚴禁這樣持有類菸品那重點是你未來法令通過之後就是你的落實你到底要怎麼實施那這個將來你們是不是會訂定這個跨部會的施行細則因為這方面 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
11236.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
11251.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
其實我最關注的是校園裡面這個孩子如果持有這個電子菸然後相關的組合元件等等那在校園裡面要怎麼樣去執行跟落實那今天其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11252.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11256.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
交易部應該也有人來就是說對於這樣的一個修法方向我不知道之前你們跨部會討論這個的時候有沒有去討論該如何執行然後讓它真正可以落實因為如果我們只是說我們訂了大家都朝野支持通過但通過之後其實在執行面可能沒有落實那就失去立法的美意 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11275.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11291.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
所以有關這方面的執行的細則我認為衛福部應該要有一個施行的細則而且各部會都會涉及到就是到底該怎麼執行跟落實那我是不是可以先請待會可以請那個教育部講一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11292.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11312.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
這部分你們有開始在研議嗎在校園裡面我們其實是讓電子菸最優先是希望這些未成年人不要去吸食嗎因為現在已經有一定的比例了那這一塊到底要怎麼做我覺得那個配套要同時想好這個我在前次諮詢也有諮詢過也就是說在校園裡面如果老師 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11313.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11331.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
拿就是老師先去處理嗎那老師不是又變成是持有這些相關的配套甚至他又如果回來還交付給學生然後後來又重複再去陌路這些的程序上次也質詢過所以等下也教育部跟衛福部我不知道你們有沒有討論過等下一併來做說明來接下來我們請陳金輝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11335.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11350.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
等一下就黃秀芳委員發言我想請問衛福部的是可不可以等一下再解釋一次你們現在的版本跟我們各委員的版本在試用上有沒有什麼不一樣的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11351.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11379.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
那現在看得出來各委員都非常重視持有這件事這個是非常重要的修正因為兩年前就禁了電子菸可是只罰使用沒有罰持有那最近我們接到一些對這個議題非常在意的比如說執法人員或者是學校校園的工作人員他們有反映一件事情就是對於不抽菸的人其實他要去 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11381.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11409.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
分辨合法的加热烟跟违法的电子烟外观上有时候很像所以刚讲到的老师要怎么判老师其实他对这两个东西的了解也甚少他怎么样可以当场的分辨然后什么情况他是可以抓那缓冲期大概多长这些如果没有讲清楚第一线直接会面对到这些青少年的人也是会很头痛所以刚王月明们有说 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11411.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11425.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
請衛福部說明我也希望可以衛福部說明衛福部內政部還有教育部都應該一起來想一個好的配套措施我們才可以協助這些小朋友黃秀芳委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11428.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11450.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
謝謝我也是針對好就是說這個持有這個類菸品好因為其實我們現在在地方好有很多的這個這個分局然後派出所分局他們在各個社區會針對毒品然後這個電子菸他們會有那個宣導好就是說宣導 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11451.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11452.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
行政部門說明回 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11482.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11507.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
謝謝委員的問題關於就是說如果已經有人檢舉了那到現場去如果人已經離開了我們怎麼去採證那確實這個東西就會看當時有沒有些錄影現場的一些狀況還有沒有有一些拍照的一些資訊去做判斷所以這個還是要實務上回歸去判斷但是如果有這樣子的情形式的時候那這邊就會列入是列入稽查的重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11508.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11530.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
事实上我们在接下也会补助县市更多的经费在稽查人力的部分也会去补强稽查的人力扩充我们稽查的人力确实在后续我们也会进行跨部会讨论尤其是在协助教育部在校园的部分怎么去协助老师们去辅导这些学生然后跟这些电子烟的没入 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11531.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11546.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
那待會教育部可能可以補充一下他現在其實就有裡面的一個廚藥的一個流程那在廚藥流程裡面如果查獲相關的違禁品的話也會通知衛生局來做後續的這些違法物品的沒入以及銷毀那我剛剛問的你們還沒回答要跟內政部配合的那個再緊張 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11555.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11576.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
感謝委員關心這個校園學生攜帶這個電子菸的部分其實我們去年就發現了因為你有沒有使用孩子還是沒有辦法去處理的那因為以現在菸害防治法使用菸品的部分一定要滿20歲所以不管是菸品或者是電子菸其實在校園都是違禁品 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11577.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11596.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
對 那所以我們在去年 就是透過這個我們電子菸的這個查緝平台衛福部成立的這個平台我們已經通過了這個電子菸的一個儲育流程並且也發函給學校就是有關學生如果攜帶或者是使用電子菸的時候就進行校安通報然後並且 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11597.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11626.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
因為一線型規範的話他是必須要先給保管然後通知他的監護人或者是他的家長到學校來然後簽署了一個就是類菸品處理的同意書我們就會移送給這個衛生主管單位就是地方的衛生主管單位那未來後續的部分因為這次修法以後後面的一個廚藝的部分我們會一併來配合這個衛福部來修正以上報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11627.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11651.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
你只是通知家長你的電子菸你到底有沒有直接因為我們現在你之前是沒有母法的現在這個是已經持有也不行然後將來要通過煙害防治法所以你的做法上面會有不一樣嗎因為現在你是很明確的有一個法源的依據那你這些收到電子菸它既然是違法 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11652.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11672.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
你沒有沒入沒有銷毀然後就回給回給家長發回給家長我們是就是他簽署了這個同意書之後就移請這個地方的那個衛生單位然後來查追查這個來源然後或者是來辦理銷毀因為這都整個就是所以整個就沒收了嗎學校方就是沒收然後送給衛生單位然後你們再向上追查那個來源嗎對不對不會不會再歸還給學生嗎直接就沒入了嗎那這個有很清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11682.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11708.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
的執行而且也讓家長都知道嘛對不對因為現在是修法就是目前的部分是因為法源還沒有移去所以我們是一定要請家長簽署了這個同意書之後就那法通過之後其實就不需要了因為這是有法源的所以你們行政流程會加快反正就是直接沒入了也不用家長什麼同意不同意就直接交給衛生局嘛那這個你們要修正好不好而且那個流程要順暢 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11711.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11713.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
黃秀芳委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
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我可以問一下就是說譬如說在研究單位或者是那個教育單位或者是那個警察單位就是說他們在做宣導的時候那他們持有這樣的一個類菸品的話那這樣算違法嗎或者是說他們持有這樣的這些菸品那是不是要做申請 |
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就因為我們現在的規定就是說任何人不得使用或持有類菸品還有組合原件那如果如果老師或者是說一些警察單位他們在地方都會做宣導好都會做宣導那每個單位可能至少都會有一兩一兩樣這樣的東西那這樣會不會因為我們這個立法之後那造成他們的違法 |
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來先請行政部門說明我剛剛講的到現在還沒有說明然後又跳到教育部去了先回答委員的問題就是說在目前現行來說如果是執行業務有需要去做一些繼續教育或者是宣導那持有的話這個目前其實是不會有罰則的所以其實現行來說就有這樣子的一個規範了 |
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那另外回答召委的问题就是其实我们在新兴烟瓶有一个测镜会这个本身就是一个跨部会的平台包含教育部包含抒发部包含内政部所以定期其实也会开会讨论烟害防治相关的一些议题所以不管是这个电子烟或者是网际网路的部分其实也会定期那后续我们也会针对修法之后相关的配套去做讨论 |
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建立完整的那個 所謂證據採證的標準跟舉發的流程是 會在那邊那剛剛教育部也在做確認也就是說未來也是只要事實上是老師沒入的話直接交給衛生單位不會又還給學生然後呢又隔天又再帶去那就一直在重複那個程序 |
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已經確認後面會整個搭配來做那陳靜蕙委員謝謝在這邊也是有一些小朋友跟家長還有老師會問我的因為你們現在修法之後他們其實也蠻關心在沒收的同時是 |
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誰來裁罰這個三萬元嗎你們好像把它提高了這個是第一個問題那第二個是因為署長上次有講到說你們要訪校國外去做這個回收桶所以您未來是會把這個回收桶設置在校園或者是說你要統一一些學校他沒入了以後然後再集中拿到哪邊去 |
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去投入你們所要設置的這個回收桶林書恩委員 |
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這個我們或許大家覺得在這裡講持有的狀態好像講得很清楚可是事實上的確在執法上應該會有執行上細節上的模糊狀況這個的確會有所以我們是不是在立法說明欄裡面應該要講清楚這個持有指涉的是什麼東西否則當然這只有行政法行政法要不然就是 |
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對啊 3萬以上我覺得我們負責任立法應該是把持有的狀態應該要稍微講清楚在立法說明欄要講清楚好 邱惠瑋 |
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我想請教部長一件事就是我在上次的質詢有跟您提到說有一個人給我一個禮物讓我打開來是合法的加熱菸那但是呢因為他的辨識上其實有困難的結果其實我是誤判他是一個電子菸 |
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那我不知道因為我判斷它是一個合法的加熱菸那我就放進去包包感謝他送我禮物那背了一天之後結果就被破獲說它是一個電子菸那請問一下這個情形如何處理那我要反映的問題就是說因為它外觀上不好辨識所以可能會有這種誤拿的情形那如果就可以三萬塊我覺得好像有點冤枉那這是我想要提出來請教部長的這個是在這一個 |
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這邊嗎否則的話因為你要講罰則罰則好這個我一併跟各位委員說你剛剛各位委員都提到好幾種狀況像邱委員提的是說人家送我就放在包包剛好遇到臨檢 |
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然後拿出來這個是類煙瓶或者是說要去做老師沒收了這個主管機關還沒有來變成他的手上主管機關來了之後說在老師手上罰老師這個很荒謬嘛或者是我要去這個宣導反毒宣導那我也是持有嘛 |
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所以這個都回到行政法法上面我們行政法法上面都有不罰的規定你是依法執行業務之行職務之行為是不罰的廢除與故意是不罰的所以這個都有在行政法法上在執行我們這個第一線執法人員在執行上他必須去遵守的免罰的規定所以應該是回到那個行政法法上的一些相對應的 |
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你講的是說已經被送出去了然後才說我免罰你那不真困擾嗎我的意思是說這個在法務部的持有毒品裡面他們應該都有相同的概念法務部裡面的持有毒品的持有是指什麼狀況可不可以請法務部表示意見或司法院那請那個汪參事 |
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是跟主席跟委員報告依照我們通常認定的持有我們會有一個客觀要素跟主觀的要素就是如果客觀上是事實上有管理力然後主觀上他有管理的意思的時候這個時候就所謂的主觀的管理意思就是他內心具有對這個物進行事實上管理支配的意向 |
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那其實這種意思不需要達到想要具為己有的程度只要他自己覺得他的同意這個東西是在自己的支配之下就可以所以我們的基本上我們的持有會是這樣的認定以上那如果這種狀況回到邱委員剛才講的問題那它是什麼狀況那回到黃秀芳委員局的例子那它是什麼狀況可以再講清楚一點嗎 |
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那個郵件國委員先請行政部門回應因為現在我剛剛說的那個持有是在刑法上的一個我們的認定現在因為我們在這個陰害防治法持有是屬於行政法的部分所以要怎麼認定這個持有我們是尊重主管機關的權責跟解釋那是不是這個部分需要做一個什麼比較 |
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比較明確的規範那我們可能就尊重主管機關沒有你這樣子沒有回答因為刑事責任是很嚴謹的如果刑事責任的嚴謹度然後在這裡幫我們釐清我們在行 |
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刑事責任之外行政法要怎麼處理這是有幫助的所以從刑事上的這個刑事責任的確認來回應邱委員剛剛講人家送我一個禮物我不小心放進去了然後被林檢找出來了 |
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那這種算不算持有或者是黃秀芳我們先談從刑事責任要件上的構成再來講我們行政處罰要不要再從更寬因為像剛剛邱委員講的這種狀況其實真的就是要看檢察官到時候的收證跟認定那就要他要 |
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因為剛剛邱委員 剛剛那個林委員講的說從刑事責任來看那我們檢察官來看的話就是以具體個案然後就他所提出的抗辯我們會一一做查證所以會有一個具體的個案不是啊 你要先講持有你剛剛講持有的兩個要件啊對 剛剛就是主觀上有管理的意思客觀上有管理的事實那什麼叫主觀上有管理的意思客觀上有管理的事實那這個兩個是什麼意思 |
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跟委員報告剛剛也有提一下就是說這個核心的要素就是他內心裡面他對這個物品他是有事實上管理而且支配的意向那雖然他不需要達到想具為己有的程度的可是他自己知道說而且他同意這個東西在自己支配之下這個就是主觀上有管理的意思那客觀上管理的事實就是 |
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你可不可以講成白話文比如說人家送送他一個禮物那你主觀上知道說這個是電子菸而且你就覺得想要把它留下來這是主觀上主觀上的意思嘛那客觀上的而持有的事實他的確被查獲的時候也在他皮包裡面是不是這樣子是 |
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所以這個就是要每一個個案對但我們這個是刑事責任才這樣處理嘛那如果我們不是刑事責任我們講的是行政處分那這個行政處分我們是不是要更寬鬆來處理是應該要這樣子我現在署分委員幫我補充但我要 |
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他講的也對但是我更要反反應的是說他送給我一個禮物然後我辨識我覺得是合法的加熱菸因為上次我們一直不斷在提到說加熱菸跟電子菸長得很像我辨識之後我覺得那是一個加熱菸可是實際上它是一個電子菸那我以為它是加熱菸我就把它放進去我包包結果後來 |
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我以為加熱菸然後結果人家破貨說說你這是電子菸那最後也是電子菸那我這邊當然淑芬委員講的也是一個問題那我更想要凸顯說因為他長相辨識很像辨識很像所以是不是也要那個看要怎麼樣去宣導民眾怎麼樣辨識因為有可能你會把這個根本不是你根本不是在持有電子菸可是你卻以你持有電子菸的方式被 |
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行政法 繩之以法這樣子 以上說明請行政部門說明 因為這題我們也花了非常久時間而且是後段要處理的 並不是法條上有什麼特別的所以我的意思是說 等一下請行政部門說明之後我們可能這一條就要來決定沒了 不然我都不會說了 |
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你要先說還是他要先回答你如果要先回答我再說好 那劉建國委員長我用這一張來請一下部長國健署署長 法務部 王燦還有警政署 教育部這是什麼東西誰說的電子煙喔電子煙電子煙那個是飲料啦對嘛 |
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他或許是一個車上的擺飾或許也是一個吊飾 |
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你覺得看部長就要政務艦才看得清楚那職法單位還是老師還是衛生單位那可能還要看很久那剛才請問你所講的當成禮品都放在袋子他或許要把它當成一個吊飾也不一定他也不曉得到底是什麼東西 |
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但是我要去強調因為我們這一條會連動37條之一啦我那天職學的時候我特別跟部長講說這個電子菸現在已經跟一坨米子綁定了綁定了我們是要處理我要處理這個法律的修正我是要從這一個角度去處理當學校把學生的這些電子菸不管它任何形狀 |
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第一個 任何形狀 任何造型老師有沒有辦法去判定警察有沒有辦法去判定衛生單位有沒有辦法去判定因為他出城就是反正那個變化萬千連部長都要這麼近距離才看得清楚接受者 購買者 送人的對象他到底是什麼樣的心情 |
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對那天我特別用兩個例子嘛那個報導者的一個說法有的故意就送你很漂亮的這些吸食的這些工具然後說他吸不習慣你試看看結果一吸哇他就上癮了然後還過頭來要跟他買然後就開始講價格然後越講越高然後那個人也上癮了 |
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這是一個樣態嘛 狀況嘛對不對那天我特別跟部長提起這個事情因為他們是真的是深度綁定那我在思考說我們是要處理這一塊還是只單純處理電子菸當老師把它沒入沒入完之後我們把它移送衛生局來做告發動作嘛對不對那有菸嗎 |
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如果在實踐裡面學校某個學校沒入實踐電子菸有九件其實都有一坨米子那我們只是針對電子菸他只有電子菸去沒入處罰哇 |
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我們今天不是在解決這個事情啊那個獨駕還是持續發生那學生因為吸取這個吸食這個電子菸然後裡面的內容物有一坨米食然後上癮了我們反而都沒有解決 |
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我是要從這個角度來處理啦所以今天檢診所有在一般是檢診所他遇到臨檢機器在應付這個取締這個事情的情況之下他看到了他也會幫我當機立斷然後馬上 |
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驗她的內容物就像那天我講的一個案例嘛有一個女生她被臨檢下來然後車上換了一個就是一看就知道她是電子煙的吸食器那警察問她說這敢妳的那個女孩子跟她很大聲坐在庫駕的女生跟她講說對啊就是我的 |
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然後那個警察馬上把他剪開然後就驗了 呈陽性那個你做護駕的女生就驚慌失措他不知道 他不知道是這樣 |
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這種事情我們要不要處理我們在法律要如何去修修到可以讓警察有這樣的一個警察質詢心事法裡面是不是直接現在面對這樣的一個一個徵出不窮的一個電子煙裡面人力濃霧 |
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造成這麼多的獨駕這麼多的學生可能會因而這樣上癮的情況之下在第15條跟37條之一我們要怎麼處理警察單位要不要做一個宣示法務部這個單位要不要做一個做一個積極的一個說明不然你們這個怕 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12724.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12737.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
怎麼講第一個處理完之後案件會持續往上拉第二個如果你不去處理的話我覺得今天這個修法的實質意義好像是在處理末路電子煙的 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12738.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12760.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
的一個一個一個一個作為這個作為沒有辦法去抑制到這個獨家這個一坨米子跟電子鐵綁定的我們要去打擊這樣的一個一個一個一個作為可以達到實質的上的一個進展跟效益以上說明那你不知道清楚嗎我們還有很多款類我是項目沒找來不然你如果要了解可以幫我寫門前方給你看師傅請回應一下謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12767.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12791.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
好我们先请王健好委员之后再请我们行政部门说明好谢谢主席哦那个我这个讲的是也是第十五条大致秋洛好原体验这部分我是签的但是我在前面第三条刚刚有有事情没有过来不好意思今天我的主题是水烟的部分那当然也是跟其他委员一样概念今天我们是水修烟害防治法针对电子烟的部分是因为依托明智这些新兴化学物品 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12792.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12813.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
他会放进去,以前我们对电子烟没有这么严格的去立法去管制今天主要管制就是因为乙酮铭子这样子的新型化学物品他会用各种形式放在电子里面那同样的水烟也是有一样的问题说其实我觉得卫福部这个要去严肃面对水烟这件事情的存在的可能就他造成的自然上跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12814.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12833.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
稀释毒品的影响现在确实在警戒应该待会如果有机会,请谨慎单位补充食物上在临检这些水烟管或在抽水的人里面他们确实会把相关的烟草或是混合一些油这个所谓的这种化学化合物的油放进去他的水的稀释的管的管径的管道里面 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12834.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12848.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
所以他的宣传效果说什么更放松更轻松等等这样东西他其实就在吸毒所以我们为什么坚持在这次在修法希望能够把水淹也纳管因为水淹现在在你们的定义里面看起来好像是 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12849.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12866.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
煙瓶或一般商品他其他有的沒有算一般商品然後煙草算煙瓶嗎可是他實際上他現在其實今天我們不能說抽中一桶腳痛一腳今天因為抓到很多電子煙的人但他因為隨身攜帶方便所以他抽一坨米子在車上隨抽隨時在開車所以我們現在來管制電子煙但其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12867.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12890.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
这个水烟他本身他也可以做这样的事情他只是他不会在车上收他不会车上抽他可能在各个夜店或者水烟馆或者什么奇怪地方去抽这个事情所以我认为说在修法的过程应该也要把水烟这件事情列入考虑而不是把他视为烟瓶来管制而已因为他不是单纯的烟草他里面有油跟水然后透过这个水蒸气抽进你的身体里面嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12891.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12907.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
所以他有各種香味去掩蓋毒品的這個味道所以反而有可能讓所以所謂年輕朋友或者是有意要去行銷毒品的業者他更有機會去讓這毒品看起來那麼無害所以我覺得這部分我覺得不服不服還是要去思考這個問題以上謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12911.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12926.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
蘇恩委員有跟這有關嗎對就是說任何人不得製造輸入剛才講的那一種稀釋趣那如果有廠商他那個零件是分開的我請你今天給我塑膠射出上面我請另外一家給我塑膠射出下面然後我再自行組裝那一個人就在製造了可是他不知道他幫人家塑膠開這個模式 寫這個東西是要幹什麼的 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12939.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12967.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
然後他也違反了我們的法令這個也是有可能就是說其實如果加上一多米子加上毒品當然就是不是只有陰害防治法管制還有這個還有毒關於毒品的管制但是因為這樣子太容易結合了所以那個液體的跟那個毒很容易結合在一起所以我們在這裡把陰害防治法裡面跟水液體狀態的電子菸的狀態我們就一併重演從最嚴全部都禁止掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12968.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12970.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
是這樣子 可是就是說這個執法 徒法不足以執行但法的執行面會有很多我們想像不到的社會上的可能我們想像不到不代表不可能我剛剛講了說他就叫我來開一個幕後寫一個塑膠的東西這樣而已 我就幫他寫出一個塑膠的東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12991.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
13020.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
的確也是但重點劉建國委員剛剛講就重點不是這些零件啦但我們只有行政法好像也還可以啦只有行政法但是就是說即便是行政法對那個很小的小的塑膠射出業者可能就是說蛤我沒去等到錢結果我馬上被處罰有可能啦所以這個真的是對我們立法者來講修法者來講是一件非常很難以判斷的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
13021.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
13028.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
不過重點都還是在法務部那一邊啦 就毒品防治那一邊啦其實最源頭都要從管理 從源頭管理的啦還要這樣 大家都在最下游 當然最下游要管但是你最上游不斷的製造 上游沒有斷 下游就不會斷啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
13043.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
13056.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
抓了一個他可以再賣20個所以上游但是上游又不是我們這個委員會能夠去智慧的所以這個事情真的是不是那麼容易不過我們還是繼續審吧好來請行政部門 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
13063.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
13084.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
第一個就是剛剛對於持有這個執行上的認定那麼我們重整起來大概未來也會跟這個第一線的執行單位會有一些需要有一些共識執法的共識不過概念上是這樣第一個要件就是知悉其存在第二有支配之意圖 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
13086.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
13105.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
所以換言之剛剛邱委員在講說他被送了一個禮物我怎麼知道它是電子煙所以他無法知悉它是這個什麼東西那他也沒有使用的意圖支配之意圖那當然他這個就會落入不法 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
13106.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
13124.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
同理嘛 那個老師拿到的時候他先給他沒收嘛所以他只是在執行說我等一下要交給衛生局的人員所以他沒有支配的意圖他只是代為保管之後他就會移交給執法人員所以他也沒有支配的意圖 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
13125.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
13148.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
他當然知道這個是電子業那不知道他電子業他怎麼會沒收他所以他知悉其存在但是他沒有支配之意圖所以他是兩個要件要同時存在的時候我們才會去按照這個叫做持有之處罰是這樣至於說因為我們現在修法我剛仔細聆聽各位委員的指教也覺得有一個地方確實是比較麻煩就是這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
13151.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
13176.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
指定煙品也就是加熱煙未經核定通過這個當然在判斷上會比較困難因為電子煙絕對都是違法的那電子煙跟加熱煙確實是不同這個也容易判斷但是加熱煙裡面什麼是通過跟沒有通過這個執行這個判斷上它會有它的難處是沒有錯那它就變成需要交由這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
13181.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
13202.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
這個這個稽查人員去判斷了啦所以這個在執行起來會有他的困擾但是他的危害性其實也沒有那麼高到那個程度跟電子菸因為電子菸他可能裡面有各種不同的毒品你光是驗這個依託名詞據我的了解現在已經大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
13203.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
13231.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
已經有那些不法業者開始在研究新的因為這毒品不斷的新所以你不能按照去驗出什麼之後才去沒入或處分所以必須是按照它是電子菸就絕對不行不然的話我們未來這個道高一尺魔高一丈我們永遠沒有辦法去處理裡面到底是什麼所以不會按照這個檢驗的結果來判定而是按照說你這個就是電子菸那麼至於這個就會涉及到剛剛 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
13233.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
13260.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
林委員先離開了這個製造的部分那我們當然現在我們對於這個製造當然是對應這個電子煙本身它的特殊性就是剛剛劉委員講的那些都綁定的所以它有這個對應的關係那當然如果你製造的只是部分的零件部分的零件它不是直接的對應它可能是用很多種不同譬如說 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
13263.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
13279.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
委託我做KR 我知道這KR你還要做什麼那當然他就不會是完全就會處分到他但是如果你是知道這個就是只適合電子驗譬如說最後做的就是那個樣子最後那個組合的 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
13280.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
13299.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
那個廠商成品的那個廠商當然他就會這個違法那麼受罰所以大概我簡單的跟大家做這些補充所以後面到底這個第二項我們修訂的部分要不要也含入了未經核定通過的 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
13300.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
13316.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
指定煙品那可以再考量那但是這個類煙品跟其組合源就是電子煙的部分我們是建議這個維持這個行政院的版本那麼把它持有能納入這個處罰處分的對象至於水煙 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
13320.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
13335.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
水煙的特性又黃偉源指教的說實在話這水煙我就比較不懂但是從一般而言它是有一定的道具不像現在的電子煙的樣態像剛剛 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
13337.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
13356.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
像剛剛劉爾元就考我那個是不是電子煙那個型態會很多啦確實是這樣但是水煙好像是設計上是比較固定他就是有幾個必要的元件他有水然後有加熱的的那個炭火然後跟煙草所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
13357.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13372.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
我們過去是把它都納入在菸品裡面一起管因為它的屬性沒有改變不像電子菸它的本質物理化學特性改變了它還是屬於菸草所以我們是按照這個菸草就是菸品 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13376.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13399.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
來做管理所有的規範都是比照菸的管理所以換句話說除了製造的部分我們沒有去特別要求之外其他的販賣廣告的要求都是跟菸品的還有吸食空間的限制進菸的地方它也一樣不過它比較不可能帶著 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13402.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13423.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
都是在固定的地點就是像水煙管等等這些所以它的管理上的這個難度基本上沒有像現在我們談的電子煙這個管理的難度高所以我們還是把它這個納入在這個這個一般煙品的管理範疇大概是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13431.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13434.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
跟主席跟委員報告 剛剛邱會務委員有提到說 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13435.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13453.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
當他以為是禮物他收下然後我們實務上要怎麼判斷他實際上是不知情那當然像這種狀況我們如果真的有案件到了檢調的時候我們其實也沒辦法光憑當事人一句說我不知道就免責所以我們通常在實務個案上我們的判斷會依據這個社會的通念跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13456.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13470.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
客觀的證據來判斷是不是真的是這樣的一個狀況那我們給委員幾個參考的我們大概過去的十五我們的判斷的幾個情境就是第一個就是看他那個外觀的偽裝的程度 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13471.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13499.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
比如說這個那個東西的外觀是不是跟一般電子菸是大相徑庭的比如說他包裝完全的就是巧克力盒啦原子筆啊而且沒有任何電子菸的吸嘴或開關的標示那還有就是說在他爭執的就是他答辯說他的交付的背景跟情境我們也會判斷比如說是誰送給他的是什麼場合送的如果是比如說夜店啊數位謀面的陌生人突然塞給他其實依照社會經驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13500.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13525.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
我其實這種應該要警覺可是如果是在正常的社交場合朋友當作普通文具贈送那這種誤認的合理性我們相信就提出來判斷的可能性合理的可能性就比較高那還有就是他的事後反應比如說如果發現他是電子菸以後他有沒有立刻丟掉退還或者是報警還是他發現以後就繼續擺在身上甚至拿起來把玩這些都是每一個情境不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13526.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13550.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
我們可以按照具體個案來判斷那所以基本上我們要判斷他是不是持有不管是行政罰還是刑罰其實我們基本上還是要有持有的主觀的意思就是有沒有故意那如果我們法條有定過失當然還有刊登過失那法條基本上都是還是有處以這個故意來判斷以上就做個簡單的說明好 我們先請警政署針對剛剛劉建國委員提的做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13560.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13566.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
在我們警政署那個製作那個毒品 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13579.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13599.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
快篩的部分毒品檢測的部分都在目前在檢測方面都有在配合只是說在法院的依據的部分可能我們還必須要再跟法務部再進行後續的研議六位 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13607.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13628.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
他這樣講你們如果聽懂我如果沒有聽懂那就是我的問題如果依照現在啦我們要提起查緝這個伊多米子跟這個電子煙的綁定盛行到這種程度的情況之下那警察本與警察職權刑事法過程裡面能不能有個宣誓性的 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13629.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13651.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
現在只要看到儀式、類似剛剛給大家看的那個是一個這麼漂亮的裝飾品或許你乍看之下它就是可能車上擺飾還是那個吊飾嘛對不對那有未來剛剛有特別提到我現在講說這個變體啦會出塵不清嘛對不對會一直改變好現在我們講說加熱菸可以未來這種電子菸的整個變體會不會像類似加熱菸你也會錯失判斷喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13659.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13674.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
那措施判斷的時候你們查緝盜的情況之下你們又不當場做去做這個篩檢去做檢驗那可能你就縱放了這個吸食的吸食毒品的對象那剛剛部長講說現在是一坨米子那未來 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13676.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13694.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
未來又不一樣的毒品的內容物裝在這裡面那我們人民保母面對這樣的事情我們到底要怎麼樣來積極的加以的防範跟做出應有的這樣的一個作為嘛我只是想聽到警政署這邊還有法務部這邊應該怎麼做警政署之後法務部然後等一下署分委員要發言警政署 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13706.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13732.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
因為在這個毒品的部分我們在檢驗的部分是從煙彈裡面去檢驗出它的成分的部分是目前的我們的量能是沒有問題的所以假如說它有更新的毒品的部分我們也是有辦法再繼續的那個做一個管制跟查緝這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13741.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13744.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
好 我先請法務部然後警政署等一下是不是針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13745.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13766.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
那個劉委員的來法務部是那個劉委員的意思是不是說將來對於那個篩檢的一個流程是不是可以再精進如果是這個部分的話那跟委員報告因為行政院院會6月18號已經有通過毒品危害防治條例第33條跟第36條修正草案甄列唾液採驗的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13770.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13786.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
一個決定那這個內容就是說在毒A條例的33條本來我們現在就有規定是各主管機關對於所屬或監督之特定人員於必要時得要求其接受毒品檢驗但是現行的規定採驗方式就只有限於尿液檢驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13787.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13809.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
但是最近這個近年的毒品檢驗技術持續的發展那不同類別的特定人員的列管的考量也不一樣所以我們現行只能採驗藥液的這個規定已經沒有辦法符合實務的需求就像剛剛委員說的所以院會這次通過就是說有為了要提升這個效能我們這次修正要增列唾液 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13810.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13837.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
為毒品採驗的方式那這次修正後我們其實本部也會配合調整就是特定人員尿液採驗辦法讓各主管機關可以依照業務特性規劃適當的檢驗程序跟配套措施來強化特定人員的毒品防治工作維護社會秩序跟公共安全那包括校園裡面的應該也都是可以列入這樣的一個修正內容以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13841.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13850.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
我先從小的就是說剛才部長講說知悉其存在具有支配之意圖如果是這樣子的話我們是不是要到立法說明欄裡面要不要寫進去第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13851.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13859.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
第二個相同的誰可載舟也可覆舟持有人真正持有的人他也有可能從這兩方面去辯解說我沒有這個也要想一下但我要講這個是小事我覺得剛剛從劉建國委員去問警政署 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13869.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13881.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
然後問這個法務部然後再到衛福部裡面我看到最後一個很矛盾我們討論到現在都沒有去想到然後這也是劉委員覺得很不滿意的地方這個問題就是國內的法律的執法面的問題我們對於毒品的執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13891.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13901.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
取締毒品跟取締違反煙害防治法的毒品管治法條例跟煙害防治法這兩個法的執行面的執行機關業務執掌的機關不一樣所以本來我們想像的就是你違反了煙害防治法那警察是不是要去管警察要不要管 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13916.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13919.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
警察說我管的是吸毒的人我才要管啊依賴防治法除非是製造的或者是說製造輸入的或是販賣的否則我不管啊因為沒有刑責嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13931.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13952.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
那持有的可是一般人執法的人員一般最常遇到的你不會隨隨便便就遇到一個賣毒品或是賣煙電子煙的你也不會遇到一個製造電子煙那個油品的你也不會遇到啊但你會經常遇到吸毒的持有的所以你就問一個警察說警政機關說 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13958.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13975.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
現在大家都知道做成可愛的吊飾的電子煙的全變都不能製造也不能持有了那現在唯一看起來跟吸食有關的合法的最可能是加熱煙的是合法的所以我現在一律把電子煙都改成長得像加熱煙 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13976.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13982.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
讓你真假難辨好 那吃法騙會遇到什麼問題警察機關說毒品才歸我管加熱菸雖然是電子菸雖然是違法但我不管啊我看到一個他就長得像加熱菸這種東西不歸我管我不管啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13992.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13995.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
那衛福部我現在講整個問題都在衛福部衛福部衛生局有誰會真的去大量的取締持有的當然是檢舉案沒有檢舉案衛生局會主動去校園裡面嗎會去搜尋嗎會像警察一樣在路上攔檢嗎都不可能只有剩下老師老師看到一個就一個看到一個檢舉一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
14021.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
14040.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
所以我在講說法律再怎麼嚴格執行面出問題啊就是警政系統法務系統我只管讀然後我不管菸那管菸的人不會天天出去外面執法不會啊所以這個法律定了以後執行面會出問題就是其實你有沒有發現 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
14046.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
14060.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
還是沒有改變所以這個狀況這個要回歸到最原始的我們的毒跟菸是兩條管理的體系執法層次也是兩個管理的體系然後大家你要不然你問 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
14062.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
14083.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
你問警察人員他要不要去主動查看非法持有電子菸的警察沒多少時間啦因為他是毒品啦所以這個是最核心的為什麼從問警政署警政署說我只管毒品所以他回答的毒品檢驗我們量能夠啊問題就不是在講毒品檢驗而已你怎麼去取締這一個電子菸跟這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
14088.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
14113.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
跟毒品結合在一起 它就長得像電子菸經常也沒有去抓電子菸啦持有一個電子菸 那持有電子菸的還不直接等於毒品咧對嗎好 針對剛剛委員的建議 請衛福部先釐清等一下再做說明 或者是文字狀做修正因為我們現在先休息30分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
14114.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
14119.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
請大家吃飯 甚至確認文字這一條等一下我們再做後續討論那一點我們持續再繼續開會 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
14123.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
14151.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
主席我補一句話就好了請休息30分鐘的時候也請檢證署 法務部再思考一件問題啦就是查緝到要不要馬上檢驗要不要強制馬上檢驗我想這個是今天我們面對到這一個伊多米子綁定電子煙很重要的一個宣示跟積極的作為不然抓到 不驗 沒路 花錢那個沒路的東西就是一個毒品 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
14152.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
14176.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
那我們視而不見那今天行政院召開從毒品防治、從業態防治、從盜交我們是整個動起來的情況之下那會在這邊就是漏掉了然後未來的毒品就推成初心的情況之下我們會防不勝防所以現在看著你就是你就是你吃這個東西反正抓到我就馬上就是檢驗我抓到就馬上檢驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
14178.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
14194.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
陳陽信就是依照毒品這個維護防治就一算法辦這樣才會真正的達到嚇阻啦是這樣在於那個快驗的部分我們會在後續會再跟法務部再做一個那個研議 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
14196.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
14204.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
然後再做現在問題就是以前煙跟毒長得都不一樣使用的工具也不一樣現在這個時代是煙跟毒都長得一樣了啦那現在的加熱煙又合法它現在長得又跟它長得吸食器具又給它長得像加熱煙警察也沒有取締的意願 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
14215.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
14241.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
劉建國一直在問你 你要去家中處理 看著加熱菸的形狀把它當成電子菸 然後馬上去驗毒然後他一直回答說 我會加強毒品的檢驗他講的就雞同鴨講嘛下午還是請警政署對這個還是要因為委員會有這個意見就是希望後端不是只有修法在前端後端沒有辦法執行的話 今天修法也是沒有意義好 那我們現在就到這邊 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
16540.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
16562.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
好我們繼續審查第15條那15條各位委員因為我認為剛剛法條上大家沒有意見比較是對後端的整個執行比較都提出相關的問題所以是否同意是先針對行政院的提案通過委員有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
16563.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
16589.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
沒有的話我們第15條就照行政院提案通過可是要請衛福部加強提供相關委員提出來問題的立法說明尤其剛剛講我覺得今天衛福部跟我們的教育部也好還有我們的警政署甚至法務部剛剛的解釋你們都要先釐清然後是不是要就像剛剛 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
16591.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
16608.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
部長 部長提的 所謂也在再度的提醒就是你說認定持有叫知悉其存在和支配之意圖這兩個概念你們應該把法裡面並讀然後說明清楚好我們接下來續審第15條之一第三章之一的章名各位有沒有意見好 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
16619.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
16643.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
沒有的話我們就照行政院行政院15條之一第三章之一有張明照行政院的版本網際網路管理不新增好那有沒有意見沒有的話我們就不予增訂那在 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
16644.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
16667.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
我們去審15條之一請行政部門說明報告委員第15條之一主要是針對網際網路業者的一個管理那在這裡面去增訂了這個管理人的這個義務那另外針對這個管理人應該要配合的這些注意事項在模範裡頭授權由中央主管機關定之 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
16668.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
16692.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
那再來就是說這些網際網路業者如果在主管機關通知有違法事情的時候呢應該在收到通知次日後兩日兩個工作日之內移除或者是限制瀏覽這個違法資訊那相關的違法資訊必須保存180天供主管機關通知這個資料是不是予以提供 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
16692.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
16710.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
那对应相对应委员的这个版本里面主要是在王宇明委员李昆城委员有在这个处理期限我们建议是通知后次日两个工作日他们是建议改为处理期限24小时之内 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
16710.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
16732.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
那我们是评估认为就是说因为这个业者有一些通知的一些处理的一些时程那有些公司又在国外所以也会有一些时差的一些问题所以这部分我们建议有行政院的版本通过那另外就是罗宪一委员也有 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
16733.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
16760.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
就是建议就是定定这个会同中央原住民主管机关针对原住民地区制定原住民与宣导那这类的这类的建议我们建议就是说后续的子办法我们会参考委员建议的事项来去评估业者的规模定制所以这部分我们也会配合原民的主管机关共同推动 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
16760.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
16778.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
所以相關的條文就不建議增列在執法案的草案裡面那再來就是中嘉賓委員他有建議就是相關的這些資料除了保存就是180天之外如果有一些訴訟的案件的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
16779.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
16802.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
那要保存到就是訴訟裁判確定後三個月那這個部分同樣因為這個在網際網路的這個陰害防治法違法的情勢跟過去以往的一些案件可能不太一樣通常都是一些網際網路業者那不太會有一些受害人提起訴訟的跟詐欺犯罪有點不太一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
16803.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
16832.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
那再來就是說這一些網際網路的資訊也會已經要求他保留180天了所以在這邊不建議再額外增加就是三個月的這個保存好 這一題因為現在網路平台已經成為違法菸品的流通的重要管道如果平台完全沒有管理責任的話那當然我覺得違法資訊就很快就扣算出去可是條文要求業者 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
16833.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
16847.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
要負善良管理人注意義務或是適當管理措施部長在法律上我覺得注意義務不是一個抽象名詞不同的注意義務代表不同的法律責任民法上有無過失或是善良管理人 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
16848.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
16863.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
那還是具體輕過失以及抽象的輕過失因為如果說抽象輕過失就是我們俗稱的善良管理人注意義務那這就是注意義務算是很高的那個注意義務的責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
16864.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
16890.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
是不是平台主動建立規範檢舉的機制違規會員停權制度才算足夠還是必須要主動用AI關鍵字或是人工全天候的監控所有使用者內容我覺得每個注意義務的標準都不同可是這次草案要求我們網路平台業者要負善良管理人的注意義務可是到底要做到什麼程度當初在立法的時候考慮是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
16891.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
16919.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
為何不是有其他注意義務的一個標準在加上應該能夠去理解到是說這是你統稱的網路網際網路的業者是包含我們的網路內容服務跟網路平臺服務跟網路應用服務這三塊那這三塊本身本來不同類型的平臺實際上就管理功能差很多像譬如說D卡Facebook |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
16920.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
16935.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
他們一定有數十萬使用者的貼文不可能每一個都先做人工審查那Google它只是一個搜尋的提供搜尋結果沒有建立內容那也無法管理每個網站反而電商平臺因為有商業面頁面還有賣家資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
16937.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
16961.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
及下架機制他管理能力相對就比較高一點所以新聞網站就是自行撰寫的內容對內容的控制程度也比較高可是如果所有的網站的業者都要是用同一套的那個注意義務的話是不是反而會不符合實際上的所以是不是這邊是不是你們也可以加以說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
16963.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
16973.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
就你們剛剛因為署長是說要按照行政院版本提案通過嗎可是問題是你們有寫的事實上是善良管理人責任這部分好 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
16979.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
16998.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
我想這個讓他能夠有這個法律明確性所以我們會建議這個稍作一些文字的修正這過去是因為我們有發布了一個叫做執行陰害防治法監測網際網路案件應注意事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
16999.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
17025.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
那裡面呢當然就是這個要求業者要遵循包含他的這個要施行這個他所經營的網路平台的這個搜尋那麼及時的管控風險的管控或者是配合主管機關的下架等等的這個事情所以我們是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
17027.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
17035.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
你一下文字把這個我們本來的行政院版本依照剛剛委員指示的方式把它應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
17037.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
17059.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
這個寫在第四項這個我們在第四項有一個授權規定我們把它明定包含這個這個應實施的管理措施那麼配合主管機關的事項還有其他的注意事項跟其他的應遵行事項的 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
17060.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
17081.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
辦法讓主管機關來訂那就可以這個因應剛剛這個委員所提到的依照這個業者所服務的樣態跟內容的不同而有不同的這個因執行執管理措施或者是配合事項是不是可以我們再你一下一個建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
17082.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
17093.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
因為我有修正動議 因為本來你是要善盡管理人的那個應助義務 那我這邊事實上是應盡管理的義務把那個所謂善良管理人這一塊那其他委員有沒有意見 我們的邱惠瑞 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
17113.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
17130.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
謝謝主席那我們台灣民眾黨對食物條之一有提出我們自己的版本我想就我們提案的版本來請教衛福部幾個問題我們的版本是衛福部的版本是網際網路業者金主管機關通知 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
17131.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
17159.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
的時候發現有違法的訊息他們要做一些移除的動作但是我們的版本呢就是我們有一個除了主管機關通知之外我們有一個網際網路業者自己本身自己自息的一個情形所以我在這邊想請教衛福部就是說如果網際網路業者他自己自息是不是他自己這時候也應該有一個義務去把他下架而不是說等這個主管機關通知他們才做下架的動作這是第一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
17159.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
17184.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
那第二件事情呢就是關於呢因為我們的就是發現有一些違法的資訊的時候應該要移除下架停刊然後限制接取那你們這邊的動詞是只有移除我想把那個違法資訊移除掉並沒有問題那就是說那個行為太陽有沒有需要多一點就是下架停刊這幾個動詞需不需要進去那我當然知道移除 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
17185.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
17207.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
移除其實就是把那個違法內容那再來第三個問題就是因為你們這邊有限制瀏覽那我對於那個限制瀏覽就是移除很明顯可以了解嘛例如說蝦皮有個賣家在那邊PO電子煙的買賣那我們就是把這個移除那這個限制瀏覽是什麼概念這是第三個問題那再來第四個問題就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
17211.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
17236.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
這邊就是資料的保存那資料保存這邊當然剛剛衛福部這邊有說明過就是要保存180天那有提到中嘉賓委員的版本就是訴訟確定結束之後等等的那我們這邊當時在寫這個草案的時候我們也考量到說那個保存期限是多久但我們是覺得衛福部的180天有點過短然後我們所以我們自己的版本我們就 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
17237.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
17260.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
先保留一個模糊的一個空間就是不設時間因為最主要是覺得衛福部的版本有一點過短這樣子那除此之外呢就是我們這邊還多加了一個當主管機關跟司法機關來要求業者提供資料的時候科與業者一個不得規避妨礙或拒絕提供資料的一個義務這樣子以上說明那再就交衛福部謝謝黃志旭委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
17263.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
17288.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
好謝謝主席那剛剛邱委員所提到的內容其實在第六項的部分也有一些意見所以我們也提了修正動力也希望能夠一起來討論那第六項的部分呢是有在後段的地方有針對行為人的個人資料的部分要希望在處理好以後同時保存要180天 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
17290.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
17311.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
那剛剛也提到主管機關要通知提供該等資訊資料應該英語提供那這個資訊資料的內容要到多大的範圍要怎麼樣才能夠得到適當的處理方法所以我們就希望跟大家討論用修正動力的內容跟大家來就教一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
17311.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
17332.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
那針對於這個主管機關通知提供該等資訊資料的部分目前行政院的這個第六項的這個通知既得既得調取行為人是個人資料及網路使用的記錄資料可是這是看起來是 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
17334.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
17360.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
兒童跟少年性剝削的防治條例第8條第二項保存資料系提供司法跟警察機關的調查為這個主要那個受領的主題是偵查機關那本項如果將受領的主題改為行政機關並在網路使用紀錄這個網路使用紀錄的時候在這個立法原則上可能還要再考量會不會說一個主體是這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
17363.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
17389.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
偵查調查機關那現在我們改成行政機關在立法原則上可能還有上去的地方那另外就是有關於個人資料如何能夠去借電個人的資料那我們是希望把個人的資料因為他可能範圍太大可以又改成行為人的用戶註冊的方式那這部分主要的原因是因為目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
17390.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
17414.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
行政院版本這個行為人的個人資料的用語是依個人資料保護法的第二條第一款的定義涵蓋一切以直接或間接能夠識別到個人的資料還有特種個人資料那範圍非常非常的廣所以如果說根據這個需求來看的話如果用要用戶的註冊來取代個人資料這麼廣的範圍的話希望能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
17417.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
17443.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
用後面能夠限縮用後面能夠明確他的這個一些該取得的個人資料的內容所以循著這兩個需求之下我們是建議把這個主管機關能夠通知提供該等資訊資料時的英語提供這部分做一些適當的處理就先把它移除然後再追加第七跟第八項的內容那第七第八項的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
17444.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
17453.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
主要就是希望能夠針對個人資料還有提取的內容有所更完整的規範那以上的內容也請大家做參考謝謝林淑香委員這個從實務面來看就是說除了校園裡面的人員的傳播之外就是在網路平台上販賣居多這種電子煙或者是它的其實的器具這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
17474.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
17491.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
那我們要檢視過去執法面的問題才知道我們現在的法律要怎麼定那過去對於違法或違規的商品在執法面都是平台業者大概都不管理啦都是由我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
17493.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
17504.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
大概立法院要求那行政部門就去跟網路平台溝通或者是衛生局去通知他們或者是衛福部去通知他們請他們下架這樣子太被動了所以我們在這裡需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
17511.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
17531.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
非常的堅定的堅持的一定就是網路平台業者自己一定要克與這些業者自己要有合理的注意義務主動管理的責任合理的注意義務所以我們現在在這裡一定要放進去的就是平台業者你要賺錢但是你也要為這個社會負債 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
17535.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
17564.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
所以在这个里面违法的你本身你要上架的商品你都必须要有注意的义务然后你要管理的责任你不能随随便便就让他上架每一个上架架上的你的平台业者都要负责我的意思是这样子所以我们绝对不能够再像过去一样等着政府来通知等着人家来检举然后我的业者才要下架永远通知不完 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
17565.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
17571.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
這樣子怎麼永遠都通知不完只有客平台業者你要上架的所有的產品通通你要負責你要負責把關一下吧這樣才可以那如果是這樣子的話邱委員請你原諒我我覺得我沒有辦法支持民眾黨團的版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
17584.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
17588.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
民眾黨團的版本一開始就說如果我知道了或者是經主管機關反映了我才要來下架這是不行的你拉得更前面嘛你的義務拉得更高不是你的這個狀況你們的版本的狀況就是被動的等人家告訴你他就會說我不知悉啊我沒有審查但我們的狀況是必須要主動的克責他要負責主動管理的責任合理的注意義務好那現在來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
17612.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
17630.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
業者會說這種這麼多樣態我到底要怎麼管理所以我們才會有行政院版的第四項嘛他的管理人的注意的義務是什麼認定的要件注意的事項是什麼管理的措施和其他事項的準則你也不能讓業者說罵無天氣我是罵是要怎麼心渣嘛所以行政部門也要有責任要拉進來你們行政部門要訂一個讓業者可以遵循的我要注意什麼的東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
17641.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
17645.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
他才可以遵循所以這樣子是一個層次搭著一個層次下去的總的言之來講就是不能再像過去一樣被動的在那裡接受人家反應永遠也反應不完所以我是希望說我們是不是其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
17659.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
17681.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
行政院版是稍微好一點的但是就是說善良管理人的注意義務如果不要用善良管理人民法的概念的話那我們在講的是管理義務只有管理義務這樣子夠不夠看法務部或司法院有沒有人請司法院有沒有給一個有沒有更高強度但是又不是到善良管理人的那一個強度的 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
17682.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
17691.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
的字眼會是什麼 有沒有建議修正動議是我提的嘛 就是管理那是不是請我們的法務部這邊可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
17702.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
17724.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
原則上這個這個管理義務要達到什麼程度其實是不是速發部還是那個他們有但是那個如果請他們先說明好了因為這他們的主管權責那如果待會需要法治上的定義要說明我們先請衛福部然後再來就是速發部 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
17732.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
17748.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
我想這個基於法律的明確性所以也不要去用這個注意義務這樣的字眼我們的最重要的就是剛剛委員所提到的他應該要有的管理作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
17749.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
17764.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
然後我們再由主管機關來這個訂定了他必要的管理作為至少要有哪些啦所以我們就是具體建議在第一項的文字上呢就是要把它寫說這些這個這個網際網路的業者那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
17773.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
17783.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
對於也不是說有這個違法情勢的因為我們本來這裡所謂的所定的違法情勢時這個就已經在後面了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
17784.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
17802.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
已經是已經是在後面第12條或第15條第一項鎖定違法情勢時這個就已經是後端了就會像像對所以不是是有這些use是要對於第12項或第15第12條或第15條第一項鎖定違法情勢應有 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
17811.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
17817.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
適當的管理作為不是發生時那個時不要是對於網際網路資料有 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
17822.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
17846.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
網際網路資料有第12條或第15條第一項鎖定違法情勢應有適當管理作為然後在第四項的部分再來定第一項網際網路業者他的這個管理作為之適用對象 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
17848.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
17875.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
然後管理措施注意事項及其他應遵行事項這辦法由中央主管機關定制那這樣就會會含納剛剛幾位委員的他包含事前的防堵跟事後的配合還包含配合事項配合主管機關的事項這個我們把它整個整個做一個修訂我們的文字整個第15條之一我們重新 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
17877.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
17904.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
這個是不是這樣子啊因為你剛才念的你們先整理我的意思是說有12條或15條所規定的所規定然後這個網際網路業者應盡管理注意義務我覺得這個字不能拿掉他就是要盡管理的注意的義務然後為適當的管理措施他就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
17906.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
17928.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
你就是一定要有管理注意的義務而且一定要有適當反映出來的管理措施我覺得這兩個東西要件不能拿掉你就是由我們12條15條所規定的是你就有管理的義務而且你必須要有管理的措施這兩個東西一定要連結在一起這樣苛責 苛責於他們必須要這麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
17935.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
17942.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
法律的課則必須要非常明確的法律保留原則所以你講法律的明確性這個東西要放上去 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
17946.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
17964.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
那你們目前是用第四項這種執法的方式在規範嗎細節的部分淑芬委員您的意思是要在母法規範嗎沒有我們在講的是第15條之一的第一項第一項的文字就是說這些業者跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
17966.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
17978.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
於往繼就是跟這個第12條15條第一項所定有關的這些這個規定的時候你必須要有管理注意的義務要為需為適當管理措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
17984.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
17999.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
這兩個通通都要在那個管理注意義務我不要叫他叫做善良管理人責任因為善良管理責任可能是很嚴謹的民法上但是他必須克著他要管理的義務而且有義務他就要有移除的作為12條所禁的為12條所禁15條所不所禁止的通通都要注意他克著他要主動管理的責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
18013.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
18033.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
合理的管理注意義務第四項就有搭配配套了第四項這一定要立法要在法律裡面法律保留原則一定要放上去否則的話沒有辦法有他的克責沒辦法對他克責 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
18045.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
18065.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
我們現在講第一項第一項 要先從前面那邊我們在講第一項第一項有第22條或第15條第一項所規定所定的違法情勢 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
18069.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
18091.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
應有管理注意義務啊我覺得要加注意嗎 像管理義務管理義務也可以啊 要有管理義務 要適當管理的措施啊所以第一項是不是按照我當初的修正動議 只是把時拿掉而已就等於是 應該要 不能等到發生後才做 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
18098.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
18118.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
因為實在是用管理義務這個是一個抽象的概念通常我們是說他所採行的這個管理措施是符合主管機關的要求這個就是他善盡他的義務管理義務法定義務的概念 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
18119.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
18140.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
所以我們用管理義務這個概念是很模糊所以不能說是管理義務的要件認定這個很奇怪其實就是在看你有沒有符合主管機關的要求那麼你的部分是管理措施或配合事項等等這些那這個就是你的管理義務啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
18141.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
18163.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
但是我想就是說我們不要這個管理義務的話在法律上一般講都是合理的注意義務那他的注意義務就是要配合行政部門第四項所定的注意義務的認定要件因為第四項行政部門有訂定出這個注意義務的認定要件 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
18164.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
18185.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
那他要採取適當的管理措施啊注意是不是又更更更更廣了沒有 因為要扣合到第四項啊有時候第一項要去扣合到第四項又變成是要用注意義務那又更廣到一個是我管理上要做到的事情還有一個是我要隨時 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
18186.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
18205.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
去注意這個我覺得他的他的他的因注意事項就是行政部門所判定的注意原則嘛好注意的這一個事項嘛那看到了你應該要要進這個注意義務這是義務哦那你就要採取適當的管理措施啊來來來來 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
18219.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
18235.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
因為這個部分涉及到行政管理到底要達到什麼樣的注意義務的程度這個我們就尊重主管機關的意見但是我就那個一般來講我們認為應盡善良管理人注意義務跟應盡一般管理義務有什麼不同我稍微 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
18236.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
18259.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
說明一下就是如果是善良管理人做義務的話基本上是這種就是跟社會上同類職業或地位的最高要求的這種客觀標準這個是比較高的好那只要有稍微不注意就抽象輕臥式就要負責就要負責那如果是一般的管理義務就是他基本上的意思就是說跟處理自己事務是同一的一個義務這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
18261.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
18285.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
義務是比較中等不像剛剛的善良管理人義務這麼高而且他這個是因人而異以個人平時的習慣為準那這個是主觀標準就是說他自己對待自己的事務的態度這是一個主觀標準而且我如果說要論過失的話就是要具體的清過失就是比對待自己還不注意的時候他才需要負責那所以這個部分就看我們委員的 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
18287.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
18306.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
決定決議就是說對於這樣的網際網路的要求我們要達到什麼樣的程度那通常我們會就說就是在法律關係或契約關係中如果是有專業性或者是對價關係的時候這種時候法院通常會要求善良管理人的注意義務那如果是一般 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
18306.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
18328.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
免費幫忙的那種友情贊助那通常我們這一般管理義務就是對待自己的事情一樣的處理盡力這樣子就可以那我是就那個法制面我們來區分這兩種義務那以上所以參事你的意見就是等於是用具體清過是那種概念就是平常怎麼對待自己的東西就要用同樣的態度對待別人東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
18329.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
18346.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
而且比較是適中的注意義務的這樣的一個角度來看如果是這樣的話我認為要維持原狀善良管理人責任因為每一個上架的你都有收費上架費他在賣東西耶在網路平台上賣東西的人不是要收上架費嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
18348.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
18376.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
那你是商業在獲取利益的你商業謀利的呢不過我也請訴法部法制處這邊因為網際網路你們在管理上在這個你們的看法是什麼跟委員報告其實應該15條之一其實平台提供者應用服務者跟內容提供者當時我們在立法的時候因為這三種業者其實有大有小但是同樣我們在強調所謂的善良管理人做義務的時候也就是說根據你的 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
18377.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
18404.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
在那個職業一般的水準你必須要附有的規定那這個部分同時在認定要件會在第四項有做這樣的規定那這個部分其實通常我們都是放在判斷他有故意過失要件的時候去判斷注意責任那剛剛委員所說也就是說要採管理的措施那個部分其實就是法定的義務也就是說你只要你就是我法律就會明定說你應該要做到這件事情那這個東西就會跟我們在判斷故意過失那個其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
18405.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
18434.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
就是不同層次 因為他的一個是事實的構成要件 他沒有做他就已經簽違法了那這個不太 這個我們通常就是我們會就是如果要只就適當管理措施明定我們就不會再加管理義務了蘇發部我剛也在有提出來就是說今天講的這三個就是平台提供者跟應用服務提供者跟內容提供者這個三個本來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
18435.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
18449.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
管理能力上本來就是不對等的那你現在如果說你都要適用一套的那個注意義務的話是否會反而不符合實務這也要 剛才也要請你們回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
18451.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
18480.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
跟教育報告所以其實應該說注意義務我們當然是說已經告訴他說你必須是要在你的專業職能上進到你專業知識應該要有的那也因此在院版的第四項其實我們已經有做一個善良管理人注意義務的認定要件所以在這個部分授權辦法裡面會根據業者的規模還有他的營業的就是營運行為的類型可能就有不同的認定標準那這個是當時院版的考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
18480.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
18501.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
但現在那個主管機關所提出的條文裡面是說他其實會把條文改成就是直接就說業者必須要付管理措施那根據他的類別該採的管理措施他在授權辦法裡面明定那反而就是有一個比較明確化規範那這個立法方向我們也是予以尊重也是支持的前面是不許 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
18509.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
18529.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
謝謝主席那個不好意思因為剛剛那個林淑芬委員好像說我們民眾黨提出來的版本比較被動那我覺得最被動的是衛福部的版本因為衛福部的版本是業者的移除是建立在主管機關的同職那當然我們也有建立這個前提但是我們又加了一個前提叫做業者自己 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
18530.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
18555.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
自吸的情境所以我們沒那麼被動啦我們還是有主動的層次就是業者自吸的時候自己要移除他們在法律上第一個就會說我不自吸了啊但是淑芬委員是淑芬委員的又再更主動就是說我們不是等事情發生然後自吸之後才做這些動作我們應該把注意義務拉得更高就是產品在上架的時候業者本身就有一個把關的責任了所以我剛講贊同贊同是贊同淑芬委員把 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
18556.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
18584.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
業者的注意義務拉高到這種程度我非常贊同啦不是贊同說他說我們被動民眾黨被動然後我贊同贊同這個要予以澄清一下要不然就是誤會有點大那我當然非常贊同淑芬委員不是事發之後才在亡羊補牢就是等於是東西要上架的時候業者的把關義務就要出現這是第一件事那好像那個主席剛剛我有請教衛福部幾個事資料保存期限的問題還有就是那個業者被要求提供 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
18584.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
18589.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
資料不能夠規避的事情然後可不可以請那個衛福部這邊回應一下謝謝來衛福部是我答委員那其實在資料保存的部分現行來說我們認為180天夠啦當然就是說如果委員認為就是說還要再延長保存就是到判決確定三個月的部分我們也予以尊重那或許也可以討論就是說是不是要這樣子做調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
18614.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
18629.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
那當然就是剛剛跟委員在澄清就是其實在院版裡面我們在第二項的部分其實就有界定網際網路業者應該要建立違法資訊風險管控機制啦所以並沒有真的那麼被動啦對所以大概是以上補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
18634.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
18644.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
網際網路平台提供者、網際網路應用服務者提供者及網際網路內容提供者與網際網路資料涉及第12條及第15條第一項之規定者 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
18656.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
18667.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
應盡這個注意義務而為適當之管理措施類似這樣子我就說前半段我現在講前半段應該是這樣修正這些人在網際網路有涉及到第12條或第15條第一項之規定者應做什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
18675.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
18691.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
這就沒有時 也沒有前 也沒有後反正你就有涉及到第12條第15條的規定的時候你就必須要啟動你的管理注意義務還有管理措施都要出來因為剛才在前面的第一段第一項的前半段它只要涉及第12條或第15條第一項之規定你就必須要有責任了 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
18710.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
18728.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
不要講這個違法違法不違法啦反正就有涉及到這個你就必須要開始注意了啦你涉及到第12條的規定第15條第一項的規定你就全部你就必須要亮紅燈了你就開始警示你就開始要審查你就要管理了善良管理人或者是要什麼意見你想一下吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
18741.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
18768.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
對於這個義務要怎麼寫我想就看大家要不要再思考一下先放著就保留一下如果這樣的話大家比較有意見的會是在於要在更前端去做那個不是等到違法刑事發現時才去做對啊就是涉及到這裡就要註解那看起來大家對善盡就應盡善良管理人注意義務 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
18769.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
18794.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
似乎好像對於還是維持院版的這樣概念那是不是今天如果沒有其他還有你們文字要斟酌依照委員等一下我們可以再做討論那我們這一條是不是先行先行保留然後等等一下對不起主席我剛剛提到第六項的部分是不是也同時第六項 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
18795.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
18813.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
就是有關於這個個人資料他的範圍非常的廣泛而且如果說用用戶的註冊基本內容就能夠含括他的需求的話但是部分是不是可以不要用個人資料因為個人資料的確在個人資料保護法裡面所定義的 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
18813.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
18831.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
非常非常的廣泛而且他在這個過程裡面可能要把所有的內容都要提供的話事實上並不見得是這個本身所需要的所以才會希望能夠從這個個人的資料做一些修正變成用戶註冊的基本資料即可 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
18832.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
18858.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
那後面有關於這個主管機關通知這個通知本身那個過程還有他需要去注意到不希望能夠去影響到我們這些相關的最小原則等等的話也希望能夠在這邊先稍微說明一下好 剛剛因為第六項王正旭委員你們沒有說明說明完之後我們這一項既然等一下再要保留那你們說明完看王委員有沒有什麼意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
18859.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
18874.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
謝謝王委員關於王委員提的這個修正動議的文字內容我們予以尊重那只是這邊要跟王委員討論是有沒有辦法可以訂定在此辦法還是王委員會堅持在募發列入這些文字的項目王委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
18875.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
18894.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
如果你要訂購紙辦法的話那就是也需要有一些文字修正我們再參考一下所以等下一併是不是文字上對再調整包含我們剛剛邱委員有沒有要有那個沒有的話我們剛剛本來就要保留很重要這一題真的很重要我真的要知道等一下要不要讓他們有文字 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
18895.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
18919.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
但是這個真的要修進去為什麼那個死線真的很重要180天我們想小明如果在蝦皮上賣了一個違法的電子煙然後呢主管機關要去裁罰結果過了180天東西都不存在了請問如何裁罰所以我覺得這個保存期限一定要跟主管機關他去行使行政裁罰權那個時間是對應的起來的我的意思就是保存期限真的要斟酌一下以上也請他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
18922.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
18929.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
180天也半年的時間如果都還沒所以我覺得要跟那個新發權可以啟動的長度來做一個應對其實我有另一種想法就是說你給他規定了這麼麻煩這麼嚴格搞不好業者就會覺得類似的產品我通通都不要上架比較省麻煩也有可能你就給他規定了麻煩嚴格然後業者說我讓你上架我每次都找我自己麻煩他都找我上架這不是也很好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
18955.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
18967.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
製造業者的麻煩也不見得是不好的啦好來我們接下來續審第15條之二15 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
18981.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
18996.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
15條之二跟我原報告剛剛提到的15條之一主要是針對這些網際網路業者的部分那15條之二的話是有些特殊狀況他沒有辦法透過網際網路業者自行移除的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
18997.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
19026.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
這個主管機關他可以命這個網際網路接取服務提供者配合停職解析那所以這個部分跟15條之一的差別在這邊那相關的這些在通知後次日兩個工作日之內移除還有資料保存180天這個是跟15條之一的內容是類似的那部分委員提出的這個修正的草案包含王玉明委員李坤城委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
19026.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
19046.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
他是建議業者處理的時間改為24小時之內那同樣因為這個有時候在業者處理的時候也會有一些時效性的一些問題那我們還是建議維持願板在通知之後次日兩個工作日之內完成停止限制接取或停止解析會比較合適 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
19047.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
19074.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
那吳憲英委員的版本他在他有增訂了就是限制接取或停止解析的手段要符合比例原則那事實上在我們進行相關的這個動作之前其實我們也都會去確認這個違法的這個資料是確定是違反煙災防治法才會通知相關的網際網路服務提供者去移除所以這部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
19075.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
19103.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
另外有一些在技術不可期待也不在此限所以我們認為在這個樣子已經是可以符合兼顧比例原則所以建議還是依照行政院的院版通過那另外就是莊嘉斌委員也是提到資料保存要不要超過180天就是有相關訴訟的時候要延長保存三個月那這個部分就是跟剛剛那一題一樣是大家看有沒有需要再延長180天這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
19104.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
19128.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
以上主席15-2其實跟15-1是有些連動所以剛剛15-1先保留的話那15-2也是順勢保留因為我們包括把剛剛的個人資料也資商在15-2也做一些在修正動員裡面也提案做修正有連動嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
19136.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
19166.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
最後部分在第15條之二的第三項第三項中間的部分有個人資料我們剛好希望能夠把個人資料改成為用戶的註冊那另外在往後的後半段的地方在180天以後針對於違反這個相關的這個資訊網頁資料還有很多的需要提供的部分呢是要做一些文字上的調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
19168.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
19182.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
這樣的話才能夠比較符合前面的一些相關的規定所以大家可以參考我們提供的這個修正同意裡面有關於第15條之二會連動到15之一的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
19186.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
19212.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
我們行政部門對跟委員補充說明一下就是15條之一跟15條之二最大的差別就是15條之一比較直接面對網際網路業者就是這些社群媒體啊等等的或者是有一些網路上在拍賣的這些網際網路業者那15條之二主要是針對這些自家網站他就是在境外設置一些非法的網站然後他可能會透過google啊去搜尋出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
19212.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
19234.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
那因為我們沒有辦法去解析沒有辦法通知他去移除所以會透過一些就是停止解析的一個手段讓國內的民眾沒有辦法去聯繫到這個境外的網站所以他的性質其實還是不太一樣的跟15條之一的業者對應的是不太一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
19236.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
19258.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
這個是不是叫速發布表示一下意見這個時間上到底是需要怎麼樣速發布應該是比我們還清楚吧來 速發布是 朝偉這個部分我們其實之前在院版都有討論過那我們也希望就是說維持是兩個工作日內因為在24小時部分其實確實在實務上在境外的網站的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
19261.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
19280.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
對比較就是時效上會比較沒有辦法抓其實我們在打架也有面臨類似上的問題啦那當然業者在我們當然能夠在用最快的速度去處理技術上協助是絕對沒有問題的對那只是說兩個工作日有時候對我們在其他相關情況在聯繫上其實會比較予以一點對 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
19283.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
19312.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
那另外在資料保存180天的部分因為在180天是半年但委員經驗條文是說如果有訴訟上判決確定後這個部分其實可能在業者實務執行上會有一個難度是他不知道哪些資料是有發生訴訟然後到底是不是什麼時候會判決確定那業者都不會被通知那他不知道哪些資料他要怎麼保存這可能在實務執行面上可能要再請委員考量一下 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
19313.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
19335.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
是然後再跟大家報告就是有關於這個15-2中間剛剛所提到的個人資料的部分個人資料如果依照個人資料保護法第二條第一款的定義要涵蓋一切得以直接或間接能夠識別個人資料含有特種個人資料業者所持 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
19336.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
19358.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
有的舉凡交友關係消費記錄興趣輪廓都可能會落入到所謂的個人資料那事實上如果說他是違反這邊的規定的話這些內容事實上是非常非常的廣泛而且不確定所以這個會違反到我們這個法律的明確性原則跟最小侵害原則所以才會想 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
19359.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
19378.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
如果用戶註冊本身就已經針對他違法的部分提供必要可以做搜尋或做處理的這個內容的話那就不要用個人資料這個四個字來喊刮必須要提供的所有的內容所以才會建議把個人資料改成用戶註冊這四個字 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
19381.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
19409.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
那如果有需要提供的話呢那個內容的部分呢就會希望主管機關在中間的地方就通知提供該有哪些違法資訊網頁資料跟足以識別行為人的用戶註冊資料的時候呢就要提供所以其實是這樣的修正動議的內容是基本上是要涵括到這些該注意的法律的內容以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
19412.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
19439.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
好 這一條 因為剛剛證據委員是講是說跟15條之一有一個關聯性是在於講個資那因為若15條之一保留是因為也是因為同樣的見解是15條之一也有講個資 等一下要不要通題你們針對這一塊這個事實上有其他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
19442.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
19442.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
稍微還有委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
19461.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
19476.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
其實就現在的條文我們其實在法條上設計是業者這就因為他的業務或系統上所留存的資料那包含的就是行為人的個人資料那這個個人資料也是必須他在使用他的服務或系統的時候也就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
19477.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
19505.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
登錄的時候或者是當成用戶註冊這樣其實內容在條文上已經是限縮了那如果說委員對於這個用字可能覺得還是有疑慮我們等一下再跟主管集團討論看看說要不要再比較明確一點這樣子 對事務條之一跟事務條之二本來就還是有這個有關個人資料的這幾個字眼的那是不是兩部討論一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
19506.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
19520.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
一樣 我們先行保留那其他的沒有特別 等於就是針對 如果回來只針對這個再做討論 你們先做研擬那接下來15條之3 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
19524.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
19551.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
接下来15条资三这次在院版是没有修正但是王玉明委员跟李坤成委员有修正的草案提案在这部分他是要求这些网络业者如果没有营业所或居住所然后没有设立分公司的话应该要设置法律代表事实上这个部分其实在当初院版的时候也有讨论过但是实务面执行上确实有一些困难度尤其这些是一些跨境的公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
19552.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
19576.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
那我們認為目前的院版已經在15條之一跟15條之二有相關配套的一些規定那所以這樣子應該就可以要求業者完成相關的管理跟在通知之後下架我們認為目前是不需要是設計這個網際網路的代表人的必要以上補充委員有沒有意見沒有的話我們這一條就不予以增訂接下來續審15條之四 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
19580.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
19594.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
15條之4這次在院版也沒有提修正那不過也是王玉明委員他有提了就是在這個15條之4裡頭增加電子送達的相關規定那這個部分其實在院版在討論的時候也有討論過那但於 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
19597.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
19620.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
關對於這個電子送達目前其實還是有一些通則性的一些問題喔那我們認為這些應該回歸到行政程序法做整體的規劃那不需要在這個本法單獨的去制定所以建議不予增訂喔委員有沒有意見因為當然第15條之4不予增訂那接下來去審16 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
19624.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
19642.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
呃16條的部分喔那這個部分其實呃呃原版沒有提喔是李秀燕委員有增訂呃李燕秀委員有去增訂未滿20歲的這個不得持有之外也呃禁止就是也規定他的監護人禁止的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
19644.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
19670.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
因為它其實跟院版禁止的方向是一致的那另外它增訂的部分就是這個父母監護人及其他照顧人應該禁止未成年吸菸及持有潛向物品那因為這個未成年人吸菸跟持有潛力物品本來就是違法我們認為其實不需要在這邊再重複所以維持現行的條文就可以了 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
19671.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].end |
19677.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].text |
委員有沒有意見沒有的話第16條維持現行條文接下來續審25條之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
19683.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].end |
19702.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].text |
在25條之一的部分主要是針對這個製造輸入類驗品跟組合原件的部分有相關的這個法則的部分尤其是納入刑法的部分那在相關委員的這個提案的部分呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
19703.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].end |
19729.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].text |
主要就是在王詠敏委員提案有列入了這個意圖盈利的部分那我們在因為意圖的這個字眼其實是比較客觀上的一個判斷主觀上的一個判斷那我們認為增加這個意圖可能會導致後續執法認定的一些困難所以我們建議還是按照本部院版的版本去通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
19730.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].end |
19748.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].text |
那民眾黨團的部分也是有增加這個意圖營利意圖販賣意圖的這個部分那再來就是盧憲英委員的版本在裡面他其實有增加了就是如果說如果是有公出上游的話可以免除其刑責 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
19749.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].end |
19770.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].text |
那这部分其实我们考量就是说这是修法的这个后续的这个溯源手段很多如果再减刑的话会让刑责过轻那所以这个部分我们建议不采纳那另外卢仙音委员又有考虑在学校周边的这个执法 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].start |
19770.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].end |
19788.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].text |
然後處罰的部分加重那但是這個我們也會考量就是在執法材料的部分可能會造成一些困擾所以其實也建議是按照我們的版本去通過那至於就是說這個草案的部分在院版這邊我們會建議在 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].start |
19790.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].end |
19812.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].text |
第一項提及違反第15條之一項第二款規定製造輸入類菸品及其組合原件者建議後面要增訂除書就是除有第25條之二所定形式之外那這個主要是因為25條之二定的是一個特別的一個例外的規定就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].start |
19814.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].end |
19824.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].text |
就是境外的這些旅客少量的吸入的部分那我們這個是希望增加了之後可以避免產生在試用上的一些異議以上說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
19829.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].end |
19848.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].text |
好謝謝主席我們台灣民眾黨對於25條之一有提案那如同剛剛衛福部所報告我們有一個意圖盈利的一個要件但是對於衛福部的說明就是說它會增加因為它是一個主觀的判斷因素 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
19852.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].end |
19881.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].text |
有了這個主觀判斷因素對於業者成罪的可能性可能就會比較難以成罪所以我們對於這個意圖盈利這個要件拿掉我們是可以接受的那現在第二個問題是因為我們有一個加重情形至二分之一的一個設計那有三種情形會加重情形至二分之一一個叫做販賣或供應與未滿20歲之人再來就是你用一些網際網路通訊軟體反正就是不特定多數人可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].start |
19882.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].end |
19904.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].text |
參與的地方因為他可能就會讓這個違法的商品他的散佈比較快然後影響比較多人那希望這種情形也能夠加重二分之一那再來就是用組織分工反覆經營或跨境運送的方式來處理這些事那不知道衛福部這邊可不可以考量有這個加重期刑二分之一的一個相關規定以上說明謝謝張阿玲委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].start |
19912.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].end |
19935.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].text |
好那针对于这个类烟品及其组合原件的一个制造输入贩卖展示与供应主要是目前是以行政法来处理的但是违法的产品仍然持续透过地下通路跟网路流入市场那我会认为说现在靠罚款是无法阻断这个供应链特别是说制造输入位于违法流通的这个源头贩卖展示跟供应都会直接促使产品进入消费端 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].start |
19936.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].end |
19956.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].text |
加上類菸品可能會成為私用毒品的載具它已經不是一般的菸害問題特別是這幾年我們可以看到非常多的已經涉及公共安全的一個問題所以我是支持要採取這個刑事處罰那現在這個條文裡面呢是依據這個查獲的物件書跟總淨重區分刑度那我其實是想要 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
19957.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].end |
19973.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].text |
来请教一下就是说我们对于这个公斤数因为以我们现在在这个毒品上我们如果用到100公斤其实已经是一个非常大的一个案件可是这样的行动来说是合宜的吗这是我想要请魏福布再来做说明的 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
19974.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].end |
19990.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].text |
那再來就是說我們接下來會不會明訂相關的件數總競送展示以及供應的認定方式來說明這些不同的組合原件要如何的來去計算避免同樣的查獲情形卻會有不同的刑度謝謝民俗分委 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].start |
19997.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].end |
20020.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].text |
在刑法一級裡面查獲超過一千件的製造輸入是一年到七年的有期徒刑販賣供應整市查獲超過一百件那是三年以下有可能是這樣子就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].start |
20023.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].end |
20045.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].text |
販賣供應展示是100件可是我們知道罪在這個罪行上製造輸入他的罪職罪職上他是罪惡性的他是要1000件以上才構成刑法上的一級那也有可能他是一年到七年他也有可能判一年也有可能判兩年也有可能判三年當然有可能判一年 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].start |
20046.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].end |
20062.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].text |
如果製造輸入一千件判一年跟你去販賣供應整市一百件你可能也判三年或是兩年這樣子在設計上那個比例上好像不太對 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].start |
20063.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].end |
20072.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].text |
所以這樣子好了就是說我有一個修正東西是希望把製造輸入超過1000件的刑期提高到從三年以上三年以上這個七年以下就是為了這個比例原則啦那另外就是說行政法這個刑法的第二級製造輸入剛才雅琳委員講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].start |
20089.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].end |
20093.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].text |
總淨重位於100公斤這個100公斤是100萬顆煙彈了100萬顆煙彈的製造輸入你才刑法二級這個100公斤這條線是不是畫錯了這條線是不是不是應該少一個零 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].start |
20115.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].end |
20127.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].text |
10公斤就可以做10萬顆了100公斤做100萬顆所以這個事情是不是要想一下這個比例上好像可以調整一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].start |
20132.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].end |
20158.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].text |
來衛福部謝謝委員的提問確實在那個電子煙的部分有各種不同的樣態那可能會是查獲就是原煙油一桶的或者是查獲煙彈2CC的或者是煙油30公升30CC或54CC的所以它的各種樣態會很不一樣那所以說大概100公斤的話換算如果只是單純煙油大概是85公升 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].start |
20160.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].end |
20187.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].text |
那如果是2CC的煙蛋大概是4萬顆如果是30CC的煙油大概是2800瓶然後54CC的電子煙的話如果加那個的話大概是1580支所以因為烤量就是有各種不同的型態那所以當初是用煎那那個煎的部分不管是一個煙油或者是一盒 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].start |
20187.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].end |
20207.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].text |
一個電子煙或者是說它是一個載具反正每一個都是算一件那所以我們當初設立100公斤就是把這所有籠籠種種就是電子煙啊吸食器啊然後2CC的煙彈啊30CC的煙油啊這些全部都算進去用重量去框它那所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].start |
20208.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].end |
20235.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].text |
這個部分就會變得說因為實務上在查的時候確實有可能都會查到這些東西所以其實我們盡量是一個以最實務面的部分去考慮就是有考慮件數我們這樣子聽不懂了因為你把吸食的器具跟真正的有成分的煙油你重量都給它放在一起去計算這樣子我們怎麼聽得下去呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].start |
20237.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].end |
20241.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].text |
一百公斤不是在講煙油純粹煙油或原料嗎阿尼的劍講的是吸食的種種東西包括這個煙油我天啊這樣子這個這樣子太複雜了 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].start |
20259.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].end |
20270.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].text |
我想釐清一下就是說因為你現在是吸食器煙彈煙油全部都分開計算嘛對不對就是你的這個件數我想問一下齁這個總重數如果沒有到100公斤但是如果拆開的零件到1000件因為吸食算一件嘛對不對吸食器就會算一件嘛煙油煙彈算一件嘛對不對他就會分開計算那如果說他沒有到總重沒有到100公斤但是件數超過1000件那就算二級 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].start |
20290.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].end |
20293.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].text |
就算第一集就會過第一集但實務上到底我們現在來查氣的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].start |
20296.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].end |
20320.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].text |
到底查緝到多少的數這個數量其實是就因為你剛剛講說2CC就已經做蠻多的這個已經做蠻多了欸那這樣子的這一條線這樣到底是合理嗎你們的依據是依據參考哪一個部分來去做依據可不可以再多做一點說明這樣好我再補充一下危害程度不一樣啦你純粹的那個液體狀的煙油100公斤那是不得了的事欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].start |
20321.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].end |
20334.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].text |
那你如果是吸食器100公斤那個是跟那個陰油100公斤這天差地別啊所以你把它通通混在一起也不行的 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].start |
20335.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].end |
20351.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].text |
100公斤的煙油純粹他不要150公斤的煙油是刑法第二個第二等級的可是他有可能在製造輸入上面比刑法第一等級的那個1000件的吸食器的還更危害社會的程度 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].start |
20352.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].end |
20364.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].text |
不可比擬的啦所以不能放在一起比啦我們先說明一下 等一下不好意思喔 發言可能先 因為有些我也先舉手 結果你會自己拿麥克風拿起來就講話了喔 來 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].start |
20367.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].end |
20389.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].text |
谢谢委员的提问当然考量就是说单纯只有那个电子烟吸食的载具或许它可能危害没有烟油那么高可是有的是一体成型的有些是分开来的所以在实物面上确实很难这样分开去做计算那其实你有那个载具就有可能有那个油所以我们认为其实应该要一视同仁都视为是违法的一起去处理 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].start |
20395.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].end |
20421.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].text |
我們這裡講的是製造輸入製造吸食器載具是一種製造那個原料那個煙油那個是另一種那你說執行面通通都混在但是我覺得應該是有一些是要從重的譬如說製造原料吸食的那個原料的煙油的煙蛋的那個應該是要從更重吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].start |
20422.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].end |
20428.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].text |
如果你查獲了50公斤的煙油 煙彈你認為還是刑法第二級嗎它影響危害程度沒有比1000件的吸食的載具還更難以計算它的傷害嗎行政部門製造輸入 保電你也說一下純粹你全部都吸食了那個煙油 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].start |
20453.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].end |
20465.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].text |
50公斤你行則是用那個比較次等的第二等級的可是50公斤的這一個傷害它可以做成多少多少的吸食的量出來啊你現在用清凍的這個概念和那個吸食的材質跟跟煙油的原料都把它混在一起 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].start |
20482.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].end |
20499.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].text |
好我可能腦筋急轉彎一下剛剛蘇委員其實在講跟那個我們署長講其實有三種狀況一個就是只有載具裡面沒有含任何的這些內含物 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].start |
20500.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].end |
20514.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].text |
另外一種就是A加B就是有載具又有內含物第三種就是單純的內含物含在載具裡面所以這三個之間如何能夠讓他做比較好的這些處罰上的規定可能就是剛剛在討論的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].start |
20518.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].end |
20541.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].text |
所以國建署或是衛福部署部長這邊可不可以理解一下因為剛剛我想證據委員也講得很清楚這也是我一直有的疑問是說你這個載具裡邊假設沒煙油然後你現在重量什麼東西尤其這邊事實上是製造輸入你都要把它算成件然後又是用那個公斤數去算 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].start |
20542.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].end |
20568.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].text |
那如果是載具的話 秤重量實際上是更重 感覺很嚴可是到底有沒有查緝到我們想要去做 要針對的對象否則我們休息五分鐘 讓你們因為部長剛剛都在去處理前一條所以是不是先讓你們先去釐清 然後也跟我們的委員說明 否則練握都非常的混淆 你們這樣子來計算 以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].start |
21255.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].end |
21257.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].text |
剛剛委員提到的就在第一項分號之後 那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].start |
21285.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].end |
21288.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].text |
在25條的第一項從分號之後其查獲物件1000件以下且淨重未遇10公斤我們把100公斤改成10公斤 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].start |
21311.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].end |
21316.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].text |
那這樣這樣應該就就這個就會相稱了委員有沒有意見沒有意見的話就行政院依照行政院提案委員林淑芬 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].start |
21335.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].end |
21363.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].text |
我剛才的我的修正同意要三年以上七年以下就是刑責第一級要三年以上七年以下因為第一級的處分來法務部像那個主席報告可是我們這個刑法的體力上面一般都是三年到十年或者是一年到七年這樣子那三年到十年吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].start |
21364.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].end |
21390.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].text |
不是因為你要對照這個東西的比例要對照製造輸入3年到10年販賣供應100件3年以下這樣才不會有失衡的問題吧否則你的教唆者在上面一直在做的人那你叫那些小弟去幫你賣小弟去賣的判的刑比你製造教唆的人還要重那不太行吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].start |
21391.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].end |
21397.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].text |
應該製造的教說的應該要判的比被叫去賣的小弟還要重吧我的意思是這樣子啊所以製造輸入的一定要比販賣供應展示的還要重 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].start |
21414.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].end |
21432.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].text |
當時這個一年到七年好像是我們對照這個毒品危害防治條例的這個行度來定的那想說現在變成三到十的話反而會可能有輕重失衡的這個情況在這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].start |
21436.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].end |
21448.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].text |
好那我問你製造輸入的要1000件他可能判一年那販賣的供應展示的100件他可能判兩年這樣子有沒有適合製造的要1000件以上然後可能判一年然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].start |
21461.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].end |
21476.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].text |
展示的100件可能判兩年這樣沒有失衡嗎這個在法官在認定的個案上面應該會去整體的來判斷但是你的法律就是像設計啊你製造出來1000件那現在問你製造輸入的構成要件是1000件 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].start |
21483.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].end |
21496.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].text |
那他就是刑法的第一級了那供應展示的100件就他的刑法處分裡面的第一級他當然他是不同的刑期啊好吧這個等一下再說好了保留保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].start |
21511.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].end |
21537.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].text |
我沒關係我問一下這個先保留一下我去問一下我再問一下專家那個我可以問一個問題嗎因為我剛有丟出來問題還沒被回覆加重啟行至二分之一那三款加重啟行例如說賣給未滿20歲的加重啟行然後用網際網路那種大量散佈時間又快的方式加重啟行至二分之一有考慮嗎好請我們的衛福部 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].start |
21539.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].end |
21554.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].text |
衛福部會長以前主席我可不可以先再補充基本上這個都是賣給小孩子都是未成年的小孩子而且都國小 國中 高中所以它本來就有這個但是就是說理論上這個不是毒品啦理論上是電子菸 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].start |
21555.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].end |
21571.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].text |
所以理論上你會覺得說它不應該比毒品還更重我是要回應法務部可是事實上不是這樣子事實上大家都知道現在這個電子菸現在就是我們上半場今天早上討論的那一個重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].start |
21572.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].end |
21590.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].text |
古時候 以前 煙就是煙的樣子毒品就是毒品 吸食的器具也都不一樣可是現在 現在它最大的危害就是不是健康上的那個電子這個煙油不是 它已經跟毒品綁在一起了當煙跟毒都混在一起的時候我們才需要加得這麼重 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].start |
21597.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].end |
21625.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].text |
那所以基本上為什麼我們會蟲這麼重因為它殘害的本來就是未成年的小孩而且從國小就開始當然對我們來講當然是加重再加重對我們而言我們當然是這樣那你們想的是立法的那個比例原則上你們去對照毒品可是大多數的毒品大多數都是成年人 吸食居多可是這個東西毒害的都是小孩子小學生就開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].start |
21626.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].end |
21655.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].text |
是這樣子我們才在這裡語重心長的一切都想要我們都想要加重再加重來遏止當然早上也是講很多啦土法不足以自行啦執行面的問題也是很嚴重的問題所以我認識法務部你們都停留在你們都還是停留在煙是煙毒是毒這只是一個電子煙類煙品不是類煙品現在幾乎就快要等於毒品啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].start |
21657.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].end |
21661.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].text |
好 衛福部先針對邱惠如委員的剛剛提的加裝分之一的 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].start |
21663.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].end |
21687.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].text |
如果還是沒有辦法去交話我們反正這個剛剛反正就要保留的那就保留下去這個剛剛邱委員所提到的是對於部分的保護對象他的販售行為給他加重處分啦這個我們是可以認同但是我們要跟其他的因為有一樣的情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].start |
21688.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].end |
21702.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].text |
因為我們有菸品還有指定菸品那它都有這樣的違法販售與保護對象那這個我們要橫評大家一起來看那因為我們現在已經落入了一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].start |
21703.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].end |
21728.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].text |
也不能說是迷思啦這未來會有法律禁核的關係就是說我們都落入說我們現在在定的是把電子煙就當成是毒品在處理的這也是現事實啦那但是呢到時候呢一定會出現的狀況就是他跟毒品危害條例之間他的採取方式因為他最後被發現是毒跟不是毒 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].start |
21730.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].end |
21758.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].text |
會變成兩個不同的禁核關係就是它單純的電子菸沒有含毒品的那它是適用這個菸害防治條例但是如果它是毒品的那這兩邊就會產生法規的禁核啦所以我們先保留我們再找法務部也再討論一下好了好 25條之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].start |
21759.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].end |
21781.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].text |
先行保留接下來續審二十五條之二請行政部門說明第二十五條之二主要是針對入境旅客違反第十五條第一項第二款規定那在這邊的話其實有去因為電子菸在某些國家是合法的那我們也擔心說有些違法旅客帶進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].start |
21783.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].end |
21805.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].text |
就被處以就是因為輸入的關係被處以刑罰所以在這裡的部分其實如果是5件以下總重沒有逾500克的話基本上是維持行政法的部分那這個部分呢其實委員的提案版本都是支持行政院版本的所以建議以行政院版本通過我有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].start |
21810.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].end |
21814.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].text |
沒有的話就照行政院提案通過 接下來續審26 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].start |
21818.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].end |
21847.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].text |
那個不好意思不好意思不是主席真的我我因為我不好意思真的很重要因為我質詢的時候我質詢部長他說是一個好問題我讓我查一下你現在是針對25條就是25條25條之二對對對對對對讓我讓我部長你只要講還是說要反駁剛剛的沒有反駁是他上次跟我說是一個好問題他會處理可是我看好像在這邊沒有處理那有沒有關乎到25條之二我剛剛已經按照行政院版本通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].start |
21848.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].end |
21849.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].text |
有影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].start |
21851.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].end |
21878.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].text |
以後麻煩快一點好好好OK那個部長我那時候有質詢你嘛就是說其實初犯的時候如果是少量的是行政法但是你的第二項有提到說如果一年內再犯就是等於是他已經是知錯不改嘛然後再犯就是刑事責任嘛然後當時我問你說那如果是兩年呢如果是兩年再犯呢那你回答我說因為不是第二項一年之內你回答我說還是回到一項的行政法 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].start |
21879.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].end |
21908.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].text |
那我就說可是這跟你們立法理由不合嗎你們立法理由是說第一次因為他是出犯然後所以再犯才是行政責任這樣子那我的意思就是說你不應該是區分一年內是刑事責任然後一年後就是我舉的例子是一兩年然後你說答案是行政責任所以我的意思說你要不要把那一年內三個字刪掉因為我質詢你其實你有說這是一個好問題你要帶回去思考但我看你的條文還是沒改 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].start |
21909.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].end |
21916.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].text |
就是如果是兩年再犯你兩年再犯你當時回答我說回到第一項的行政責任一年內三個字拿掉就沒問題不是因為我上次回答你說那他兩年再犯呢法律效果是什麼你說第一項的行政責任但我覺得輕重失衡啊也跟你們立法理由不符 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].start |
21942.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].end |
21968.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].text |
這個待會也可以請法務部提供意見就是說對於再犯他一定有一個時間的概念才有所謂的再犯意思就是說沒有終身再犯的概念就是你終其一生只要再發生第二次就叫做再犯了他一定有個期間這個期間要多久可以討論如果邱委員認為一年內太短你要把它變成三年內 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].start |
21969.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].end |
21987.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].text |
把它延長三年內再犯那也是OK但是好像沒有說把一年拿掉的這種這個可以請法務部表示一下對法務部可不可以解散否則這樣的話我們法律都有追溯期那如果說那25年以後也都要這樣那不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].start |
21988.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].end |
22006.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].text |
嚴格到一個非常嚴重的那個行政法會很嚴重那是法部先說明一下的確其他蠻多法律都有這種幾年內再犯處以刑罰的不好意思大聲一點像其他毒品管理防治條例啊或是有一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].start |
22007.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].end |
22033.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].text |
行政法裡面附的法則也都是說像我現在想的到就業服務法啦或是像奪品外防制條例裡面都有類似說出犯是行政法那比如說五年內再犯或是幾年內再犯的話就處以刑罰的規定但的確沒有現在目前沒有想到說是就是終身再犯的這種概念那這個幾年的確是大家可以討論那就是尊重這主管機關的政策決定跟大院審議結果啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].start |
22035.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].end |
22053.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].text |
因為你一年內再犯你是刑事責任然後呢一年一個月再犯你就回到行政責任那這就很奇怪因為你的立法理由寫說因為他第一次不知道所以你給他一個比較寬容的對待就是行政法而已但是他已經知道了他觸犯電子 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].start |
22054.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].end |
22082.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].text |
他那個攜帶電子菸那就回到刑事責任的處罰我覺得這個是因為你們的立法理由是為什麼要給他一個比較寬厚的空間是因為知情跟不知情跟幾年再犯無關我覺得這一題是跟幾年再犯一點關係都沒有你們立法理由已經寫說他第一次不知道給他比較寬厚的待遇那你第二次再犯已經不能所謂的不知情你算是知情的人你就要回到原始的規定去對待 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].start |
22084.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].end |
22099.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].text |
這當然還是有關係啊 如果說5年或10年後或20年後都還是叫做要用那個還是會有 還是要有一個年限在啊 直到底要多少年我覺得是可以討論 不能說那眾生都只要進來 那假設 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].start |
22100.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].end |
22128.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].text |
就會變成是要有刑期本來是行政法而已那現在變成說你要有刑期那就真的是對於他是判決是讓他終身的因為你們我印象中你們本文就是刑期嘛只是少量的例外變成行政法嘛那為什麼對於國外那些因為他們有可能在國外美國不知道台灣的規定所以他們在不知情的情況之下就攜帶了少量的所以你們給他行政法所以原則是刑法 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].start |
22129.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].end |
22152.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].text |
他不知道但他犯過一次他應該已經知道了已經知道就是已經知情了已經知情就應該回到本文的規定刑事處罰去而不是說什麼我覺得這個跟幾年後再犯無關這關乎於你們的立法理由因為你們立法理由就是以知情跟不知情做區分你一年後再犯你也是知情了你20年後再犯你也是知情了 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].start |
22153.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].end |
22167.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].text |
所以我覺得這好像是你要看你的立法理由是你是要用知情跟不知情來設計法律還是要用什麼行為什麼經過幾年然後什麼給他一個再犯的空間我覺得那是不一樣的思考如果你們的立法理由是以知情跟不知情作為依據這個應該是從眾的話的確是這樣子沒有錯衛福部 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].start |
22182.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].end |
22196.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].text |
我的建議還是可以把這個幾年因為這個就是累犯的概念那我們回珠其他法律大概累犯的話普通你三年或五年比較長的是用五年的話我們是可以把一年改成五年這時間是比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].start |
22199.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].end |
22225.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].text |
等於是你這個五年內再違反的那我們就把它當作刑事法了但是如果說都不寫這個未來在執行上也有它的問題因為你的邏輯會變成你只要從國外回來都是你只要從國外回來的第二次都是還是行政法 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].start |
22226.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].end |
22243.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].text |
在某一個年限之內是行政法在某一個年限之外是在某對啊那我的意思是說可是你在國內的人他知情的情況之下他就是刑事責任就輸入啦輸入他就是刑事責任了你們不是括合著21條之一嗎主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].start |
22247.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].end |
22274.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].text |
邱委員不好意思 因為剛剛是王生許委員先舉手我只是在想說剛剛邱委員一直在強調如果立法說明裡面跟這個法條是有判決的話那如果我們希望不管是一年兩年或幾年定下來以後立法說明這邊能不能夠把邱委員所擔心的事情在那邊講清楚這樣的話就能夠解決目前的困境25條 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].start |
22277.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].end |
22288.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].text |
二要保留還是因為如果講立法說明還是要用這個剛提的就是五年那還是五年有沒有有 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].start |
22290.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].end |
22308.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].text |
這個就是說五年內他就在違法一次的話我們就就就就有刑責了但是呢超過五年以後我們就讓他重來重新來過重新計算就是這樣子啦這個意思是這樣子但就是牽扯到立法者說我們要怎麼樣而已啊這個東西沒有什麼對錯的是我們在這裡立法的人我們想要把他立成什麼關係啊然後這個是要五件以下五件以上會怎樣啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].start |
22322.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].end |
22338.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].text |
五件以下五件五件是什麼意思就一件也來 且總淨重位於500克500克 500克可以做多少蛋這跟剛才一樣啊應該是要看它可以做成多少量的煙油啦搞不好500必須要變成10克喔而不是500喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].start |
22352.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].end |
22372.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].text |
我們剛才那個都10公斤了 這個500克可以做成多少東西衛福部 煙彈可以做成幾個 煙油可以裝成幾瓶 500克30冒1瓶喔30冒1瓶喔 500克可以做成10幾瓶了那煙彈的話2冒1個 500克可以做成250個了 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].start |
22383.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].end |
22396.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].text |
好25條這個500克我想25條就先行保留了那我要講等一下拜託我覺得不要已經又已經是通過之後又再回頭好那接下來續審26 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].start |
22407.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].end |
22425.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].text |
報告委員第26條主要是針對製造輸入違反的這個未經核定健康風險評估審定的指定菸品格紀要組合原件的一些罰款那相關委員的提案在條文草案裡面是有徵定在26條裡頭徵定沒入 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].start |
22428.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].end |
22445.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].text |
但是因为我们行政院版已经在第12条有一些末路跟销毁的规定所以避免这些规定散在各条文当中建议从院版的部分通过就可以了那徐晓清委员他其实在26条里头有增订一个 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].start |
22445.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].end |
22469.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].text |
超過30天內統一銷毀因為不管是在刑事或行政調查有的時候會需要有保存這些物品的物證的需要所以有的時候沒有辦法在調查期間銷毀所以超過30天就要銷毀可能在執行上會有一些問題所以我們建議還是以維持院版 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].start |
22470.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].end |
22488.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].text |
那再來部分委員有提高就是這個製造輸入的一些相關的一些罰款那我們其實是希望就是說維持院版的這樣子的一個罰款的比例不要再調得過高免得不符合比例的原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].start |
22490.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].end |
22515.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].text |
那另外的部分就是邱政軍委員有將26條裡頭有意圖製造跟輸入而持有這個字眼納進去那因為我們還是認為這個意圖在實務上認定不容易所以其實也避免這樣子不能過度擴張我們的行政材料權所以我們建議按照行政院的版本通過以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].start |
22520.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].end |
22547.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].text |
問一個很快的問題齁就是double check而已就是說剛剛那個衛福部的那個說法嘛就是那個42條之一嘛齁等一下我們會討論到就是所有沒入就是不問何人嘛就是一律就是沒入跟銷毀嘛所以其實跟我們這裡26條提的是一樣的只是你們就是把集中寫在那一條嘛齁所以不影響啦法律效果不影響只是你們寫在不一樣的地方好謝謝沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].start |
22551.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].end |
22564.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].text |
那這一條有沒有其他委員有沒有意見沒有就照26條照行政院提案通過 接下來續審30條報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].start |
22575.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].end |
22600.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].text |
報告委員第30條的部分是針對這些廣告跟網際網路業者的相對應的這個罰款那依據的是第15條的部分去做相對應的配合的這些罰款的部分那所以剛剛第15條保留所以第30條的部分是不是也要一併保留15條之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].start |
22612.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].end |
22623.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].text |
有相關嗎那這一條就先行 第三條就先行保留那續審三十一 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].start |
22629.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].end |
22647.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].text |
第31條也是針對這些製造輸入廣告傳播媒體還有網路業者那針對他有違反的形式15條之一的第二款的規定跟15條之一15條第一項第三款的規定有相對應的罰款 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].start |
22649.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].end |
22675.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].text |
那在委员相对应提案的版本就是赖瑞龙委员他有建议将网路广告平台业者纳入那我们认为这个网路广告平台业者他范围比较窄那我们其实在院版的部分有已经用网际网路业者更全面所以我们建议用行政院的版本通过 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].start |
22678.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].end |
22687.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].text |
委員有沒有意見沒有第31條照行政院版本通過接下去審32 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].start |
22692.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].end |
22720.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].text |
第32條是針對違反第15條第一項第三款規定就是販賣展示未經核定通過健康風險評估審查指定菸品相對應的這些罰則那在委員的部分是在第32條增訂末路銷毀那同樣在末路銷毀我們有42條有規定了所以這部分建議就是違照維持行政院版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].start |
22721.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].end |
22744.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].text |
通过那再来就是说部分委员有把这个就是第32条第一项第一款第二款的持有的纳入行政法的调高罚缓那我们建议其实罚缓的部分我们就是维持行政院版就是通过那这个部分就是不要再具体高相对应的罚缓了 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].start |
22745.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].end |
22766.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].text |
那再來就是在王逸川委員跟徐曉新委員的部分他是將32條販賣的及展示提高罰則那因為我們已經在這個製造輸入展示的部分已經身為行者已經加重了所以這個部分我們建議依照行政院版通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].start |
22767.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].end |
22780.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].text |
那邱正均委員的部分就是將意圖販賣而持有視為意圖販賣那這個因為意圖的部分認定不容易我們也建議用行政院的版本通過 以上還有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].start |
22784.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].end |
22787.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].text |
沒有第3條 因為第3條事實上是違反第15條之一對不起我看錯15條之一抱歉這是第15條不是第15之一沒問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].start |
22814.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].end |
22821.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].text |
黃正規委有沒有意見那第32條照行政院提案通過那接下來續審35之1 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].start |
22836.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].end |
22853.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].text |
35條之一是在違反前面第15條之一的這個相對應的法則那因為第15條之一保留所以第35條之一建議目前保留35條之一先行保留接下來36 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].start |
22858.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].end |
22881.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].text |
36條目前在院版是沒有修正那徐曉新委員針對36條的部分在這個製造輸入第15條第一項第一款與菸品跟菸品容器相近物品有這個相對應的這個法則那這個部分因為是提高跟菸品跟菸品容器形狀相近的物品 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].start |
22882.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].end |
22910.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].text |
那所以這個同樣在前面我們有提到過因為裁量的時候如果有一些小型的物件像是糖果點心這些物件很像的時候認定會有一些判定上的疑慮所以如果是提高至原法則兩倍會不符合比例原則所以那我們建議維持原條文委員有沒有意見沒有就是維持現行條文接下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].start |
22918.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].end |
22937.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].text |
第三十七條是違反第十五條第一項第三款就是在那個沒有經過健康風險評估審查的指定菸品相對應的這個法則那委員的版本就是有在這一條裡面增訂末路那同樣我們不建議在這裡增訂末路的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].start |
22938.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].end |
22954.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].text |
那呃也有黃建華委員也有增訂一個在營業場所放菸給未成年的少少年呃一年再放就是可以停止就是這個營業場所三到六個月不得販售那呃 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].start |
22956.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].end |
22976.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].text |
基本上目前的业害防治法已经其实是按照处罚可以连续罚而且可以依他的所得利益加重就是依行政法法来加重处罚所以因为我们考量限制营业权影响比较大所以建议还是维持行政院的版本通过那 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].start |
22976.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].end |
22996.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].text |
另外召委的草案的版本有針對就是說如果有引誘這個使未成年人還有孕婦吸菸的話要加重處罰那因為考量就是菸品跟類菸品不同加重處罰就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].start |
22998.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].end |
23012.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].text |
並不是不行但是因為這個還是會有一些同學分享的一些行為就是一些一般的出現的一些行為所以我們還是會考量說要以比例原則還是依照行政院版的版本去通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].start |
23013.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].end |
23033.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].text |
那另外在林倩琦委員跟林思明委員徐曉欣委員民眾黨的版本一樣是有通過這個也有增加這個未滿20歲要提高罰款的這個部分那這個部分我們也是建議要考量比例原則維持行政院版本的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].start |
23035.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].end |
23057.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].text |
邱振均委员版本其实有把一些分装媒介或代为持有视为供应但是因为这个行为上其实是很难跟输入做区分所以我们认为其实条文里头暂时不适合放入这类似的一个文字建议还是用行政院版 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].start |
23058.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].end |
23076.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].text |
那李博裕委員在持有的部分罰款定為一萬元以下那委員持的這個罰款叫我們原條文的使用罰款更低所以其實很難有抑止的效果所以我們也是建議維持行政院的版本以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].start |
23079.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].end |
23080.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].text |
委員有沒有意見沒有就 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].start |
23107.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].end |
23112.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].text |
第三案 七條 照行政院提案通過 接下去審三十七之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].start |
23122.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].end |
23149.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].text |
三十七之一是針對違反第十五條之二是針對類言品的部分的相對應持有使用的相對應的罰則那原則上目前委員的版本都是支持行政院版的所以建議以行政院版本通過委員有沒有意見沒有三十七條之一照行政院版本通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].start |
23150.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].end |
23151.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].text |
接下去省38 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].start |
23153.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].end |
23181.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].text |
那38條的部分是針對煙品指定煙品販售的部分喔那這個部分目前只有增定了就是要在違反13條之一一販煙場所以外販售指定煙品之必要組合元件這是增加的部分喔那委員的部分的提案都是支持行政院版的所以建議以行政院版本通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].start |
23184.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].end |
23191.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].text |
有沒有意見沒有 第38條造型政院提案通過 接下來續審事實 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].start |
23197.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].end |
23222.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].text |
40條是主要是禁煙場所相關負責人相關負責單位的這個違反的一些情勢的一些罰款那在委員的提案裡面就是在專委還有其他委員裡頭在40條增訂沒入那同樣在42條已經有沒入的條款建議用行政院版通過那另外網美會委員的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].start |
23224.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].end |
23249.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].text |
就是有針對相關納入行政法然後持有的提高罰款的部分因為目前的罰款已經提高了而且針對行政法法對於18下有減輕或免除刑法的一些規定所以建議還是按照行政院版的條文去通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].start |
23250.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].end |
23279.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].text |
那相對應羅志強委員跟王逸川委員也是有在這一條增訂沒錄還有相關送驗那當然在42條也有已經有相對應的這個條文那此外現行的這些類菸品如果在衛生主管機關查獲的時候也可以依照就是有懷疑的時候送送交司法檢驗機關去檢驗所以建議這個部分也不需要在這邊做增修以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].start |
23281.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].end |
23286.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].text |
沒有第40條照行政院提案通過 接下來41條 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].start |
23300.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].end |
23311.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].text |
41條的部分這一次行政院的版本並沒有修正那但是部分委員徐巧欣委員有提高就是這個規避妨礙跟拒絕的罰緩 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].start |
23314.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].end |
23334.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].text |
那我们其实在院版在第35条已经有定网际网路业者如果没有依照规定其实他的罚还是10万到50万其实已经比就是学院的版本的就是罚还还要高所以我们建议维持原条文就可以了 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].start |
23335.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].end |
23355.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].text |
那民眾黨團的那個版本有增訂網際網路業者如果規避妨礙或拒絕的法則那因為我們行政院版在35條之一已經有訂定相關的罰款是10萬到50萬也比這個版本更高所以我們也建議維持原條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].start |
23356.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].end |
23373.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].text |
我有沒有意見不好意思我確認一下齁您講的就是我們41條的第二第三項嘛您說那個是在三十幾條三十五條之一之一然後是就是網際網路業者如果規避妨礙的話就是你說是規避行為他一樣是規避妨礙嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].start |
23375.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].end |
23389.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].text |
規避妨礙提供資料嗎對行為太陽是規避妨礙提供資料嗎是然後您說是處罰多少錢10萬至50萬10萬至50萬嘛好那就是有比我們重有比我們重行為太陽是一樣那就沒有問題好謝謝那還有其他委員有意見嗎沒有41條維持現行條文接下來續審42 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].start |
23405.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].end |
23433.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].text |
42條這次院版並沒有提供就是並沒有修正那但是王育明委員他有增訂就是20歲的人他在使用持有類菸品應該接受戒菸教育那其實相關就是這些未成年使用持有這些類菸品我們後續也會修正我們的這個戒菸教育實施辦法將類菸品這些相關的繼續戒菸教育然後能夠落實 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].start |
23434.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].end |
23447.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].text |
所以這個會有後續的一個執辦法的一個修正所以我們建議維持原條文就可以了那此外王明明委員在這裡也有增訂末路銷毀的規定那同樣院版的42條已經有相對應的條文了第42第42條 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].start |
23466.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].end |
23494.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].text |
那維持現行條文現在續審四十二之一那四十二條之一主要是針對類菸品的部分去做沒入的部分那委員的提案都是支持行政院版本建議用行政院版本通過委員有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].start |
23497.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].end |
23518.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].text |
沒有四十二條之一照行政院提案通過現在續審四十二之二那四十二條之二是針對這個違法沒入的物品去處理所訂定的一些規範那在這個部分盧憲英委員的版本其實他是有增訂就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].start |
23519.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].end |
23545.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].text |
第三項的提撥費用給偏遠地區的這個防堵宣導跟新興菸品的衛教的部分還有巡迴醫療部分不過在這一條法條裡頭規定的這個相關費用主要是在這些違法物品的沒入跟銷毀的處理費用那所以這個部分其實可能很難做其他的用途使用所以建議以維持行政院版本通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].start |
23548.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].end |
23558.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].text |
各位有沒有意見沒有意見42條之2照行政院提案通過 先續審43 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].start |
23570.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].end |
23587.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].text |
第43條院版並沒有提案喔那是王玉明委員他有提案就是增訂了就是在違反27條的時候可以公佈這個受處分人違法的情形喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].start |
23588.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].end |
23613.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].text |
那其實院版已經有相對應的刑罰規定然後我們是建議因為委員修改的版本是因為委員在第27條之一增訂刑事罰則所以故同步修訂此條那如果原版本可以含納至行政院版的第25條之一的話我們就建議維持原條文就可以了委員有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].start |
23620.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].end |
23620.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].text |
第43條維持現行條文 其他續審44 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].start |
23628.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].end |
23647.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].text |
44條主要是相關的主管機關開罰還有相關主管機關的規定那在王玉明委員的提案的部分有去增加第二項只有刑事罰則是應移送司法機關偵辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].start |
23649.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].end |
23670.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].text |
那事實上主管機關有懷疑犯罪刑事的時候就可以以刑事訴訟法來程序移送司法機關不需要再另外去訂定所以在這部分我們也建議為此院版通過不好意思我們台灣民眾黨也有相同的提案就是一模一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].start |
23671.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].end |
23692.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].text |
我們是想要表達說既然那些主席既然就是說主管機關這邊回應說你們如果知道有犯罪情勢你們本來就會移送司法機關偵辦那其實我們就是把實務運作把它文字化所以我們是覺得如果無傷大雅而且也是反映實務運作是不是可以把這段文字補上去以上說明謝謝來請行政部門回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].start |
23700.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].end |
23705.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].text |
26條之一有保留嗎26條之一有保留嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].start |
23732.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].end |
23745.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].text |
我補充一下因為醫療法104條醫療暴力106有這樣處理的所以我們就想說把他落於文字然後呈現出一種慎重的態度謝謝張偉我們對一下我們對一下好那就先行保留來接下來續審45之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].start |
23765.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].end |
23784.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].text |
451是針對檢舉查獲違反的這些案件的時候對於一些查緝的機關相對應的一些獎勵的一些規定那這裡的委員的提案都是支持行政院版本的所以建議相對用院版通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].start |
23787.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].end |
23814.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].text |
委員有沒有意見沒有了45條之一照行政院提案通過接下來續審45-245-2是關於本法執行的一些日期那在這個部分委員的提案版本都是支持行政院版本建議用行政院的版本通過那45條之二照行政院提案通過接下來續審47 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].start |
23837.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].end |
23846.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].text |
47條我們現在休息五分鐘等一下來討論附帶決議五分鐘先也請剛才那個先溝通一下跟邱惠如委員溝通一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].start |
23854.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].end |
23854.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].text |
這裏有個大廈 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].start |
23870.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].end |
23885.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].text |
全部都整完了整完了啦不行了我們要等那一條肉絲好熱喔好啦不行了啦我們就再做個平行好了我們再煮一煮再煮煮一煮 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].start |
23893.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].end |
23897.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].text |
這裏有很多不同的餐廳,有很多不同的餐廳 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].start |
23918.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].end |
23941.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].text |
對 對 對 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].start |
23949.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].end |
23949.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].text |
好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].start |
23997.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].end |
23998.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].start |
24003.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].end |
24014.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].text |
但我的問題是在什麼事情你要經過?其實我一直跟你講,你會做一個月的配套,我覺得現在你這樣子過,你九月就開學了,你覺得怎麼辦? |
| transcript.whisperx[797].start |
24030.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].end |
24043.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].text |
剛剛那一條有過嗎?那一條有保留嗎?那一條有保留嗎?那一條有保留嗎?那一條有保留嗎?那一條有保留嗎?那一條有保留嗎?那一條有保留嗎?那一條有保留嗎?那一條有保留嗎?那一條有保留嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[798].start |
24056.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].end |
24062.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].text |
到底誰來做這件事情?就是學校跟衛生局的分工法在哪裡?這個我覺得你是不是擔心?我在 我在 我在對 對 對 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].start |
24086.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].end |
24086.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].text |
感谢观看 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].start |
24115.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].end |
24115.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].start |
24127.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].end |
24136.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].text |
現在是黃金正日 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].start |
24158.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].end |
24159.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].text |
謝謝大家。 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].start |
24193.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].end |
24204.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].text |
現在繼續開會現在繼續開會處理我們陰害防治法部分條文修正草案等三十五案的附帶決議既有四案請一併宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].start |
24208.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].end |
24235.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].text |
宣讀不来决议第一案卫生福利部定定第15条之一第四项准则时应以该部国民健康署115年1月13日未受国字第150760024号函班执行严害防治法监测网际网路案件应注意事项为基础邀集网际网路业者公共卫生团体及学者专家陈述意见并于发布后函送立法院提案委员王正旭联署委员林月琴黄秀芳 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].start |
24236.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].end |
24262.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].text |
二 衛生福利部因自本法修正施行之次年起每年就依第15條之一及第15條之二所為通知限制瀏覽移除限制接取停止解析之件數及依第15條之一通知提供資料之件數與資料類型彙整統計並公開之提案委員王振旭連署委員林月請黃秀芳三 請衛生福利部 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].start |
24263.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].end |
24283.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].text |
會同內政部警政署以及教育部共同嚴定電子煙及其組合元件之辨識認定及查緝標準作業程序並加強第一線執法人員及教師的教育訓練避免因辨識標準不一致而影響執法成效提案委員劉建國聯署委員王振旭林署分黃秀芳楊耀4 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].start |
24286.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].end |
24315.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].text |
一國民健康署青少年吸菸行為調查每10名吸菸青少年中約有4名使用加味菸國中生為40.2%高中職生為49.4%且女性使用比例高於男性加味菸對青少年之誘引效果明確又正面表列個別添加物成分之管制方式食物上製造者仍得自其餘成分調製相同風味管制時效恐有不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].start |
24316.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].end |
24342.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].text |
原要求衛生福利部儘速參酌歐盟以特徵風味為基準之管制方式研擬並完成公告菸瓶禁止使用之添加物規定提案委員陳金輝 王育敏 邱慧如宣讀完畢好 第二點也看完王正俊委員為什麼因為這個跟我們的第15條之因為被保留是不是我們這一個也是先行保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].start |
24344.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].end |
24367.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].text |
那一樣第二案也是一樣因為15條之一被保留那我們這也先行保留那第三案 那行政單位行政單位有沒有意見行政單位目前沒有意見 謝謝就遭案通過 是 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].start |
24368.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].end |
24385.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].text |
好那就照劉建國委員的提案通過那接下來第四案行政單位行政單位也沒有意見那第四第四案就照陳金輝委員提案通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].start |
24390.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].end |
24419.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].text |
來做以下決議以審查及繼續審查行政院函請審議厭害法防治法部分條文修正草案等35案審查完畢並按依據審查報告提報院會討論 院會討論本案時有林昭及委員請補充說明 請問本案是否需交由黨團協商好那我們就交由黨團協商那二本 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].start |
24421.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].end |
24435.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].text |
本法案條文中原引調適及法制用與調整授權議事人員調整 相關立法說明授權行政單位提供本次會議到此結束 現在散會 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].start |
24439.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].end |
24453.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].text |
你來幹嘛 抽尾對啊 我就想說這樣讓他出尾無悔啊這就不如拖啊他變成要拖那麼久每一條都有意見那不應該算是出尾無悔嗎應該算嘛他這樣 咦剛剛我才聽到一半 應該是出尾無悔這樣出尾無悔 出了好 |