| IVOD_ID |
17590 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17590 |
| 日期 |
2026-07-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-5-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期第17次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
17 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期第17次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2026-07-14T08:33:56+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-07-14T18:13:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
09:39:04 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8398b1826590a609c9b8c7bdf2ee460b0727f43dd4a521b76d94474d9c748abcbfa8b11368f3c2d85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-07-14T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第5會期第17次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員洪孟楷、楊瓊瓔、王鴻薇、蘇清泉、林德福、廖偉翔、黃健豪、陳玉珍等52人擬具公民投票提案主文為：「您是否同意政府制定法律，針對性侵害犯罪、凌虐幼童罪、以及高額詐欺罪、複合型態加重詐欺罪，增設由法院宣告並依法執行之特別刑法制度（鞭刑），以嚇阻犯罪持續發生？」請公決案等6案。二、行政院院長率同相關部會首長列席提出中聯油脂大豆沙拉油事件及食安監管機制缺失檢討專案報告並備質詢。（7月14日下午）三、7月14日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:33:56 - 18:13:00 |
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34738.73721875 |
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1584.358 |
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1611.232 |
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現在進行國事論壇每位委員發言時間三分鐘請紅委員孟凱發言主席各位同仁食安就是國安呼籲賴清德總統 |
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1612.188 |
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1615.445 |
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即刻召開重大全國食安會議 |
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1617.421 |
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1637.294 |
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今天已經是第14天了兩個禮拜過去兩個禮拜前6月30號爆發的致癌油問題但到目前為止國人想要了解的真相到底釐清了嗎還是問題一天一天的爆從一開始的1300噸到2600噸現在昨天衛福部次長還親口承認現在有問題的油品有5批高達5700多噸 |
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1647 |
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1662.507 |
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我們要問這就是最終結果了嗎還有5700多公噸的油到底去了哪裡其實說實在話很遺憾很可悲很殘酷的事實是可能都被你我全體國人吃下肚了 |
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1663.749 |
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1688.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
我們更要問在這個過程裡面有多少是孩童吃下肚的營養物參贊了多少有多少的數量哪一些縣市相對嚴重哪一些縣市學校使用的比較多昨天想要問教育部長一問三不知我想這是三大問題面向請賴清德總統不要再迴避一定要正面面對第一這是態度問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1689.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1707.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
中央是負責全國食安的最高主管機關從頭到尾卻都被媒體追著跑被民意代表追著跑被社會輿論追著跑20%本來說要保持後來取消第二層下架本來說不用後來又下架 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1707.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1736.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
到現在一個禮拜過去之後才說四月到六月中聯生產的油品要全面下降那我們想問報到哪裡才查到哪裡才防止到哪裡這是一個中央主管機關應有的態度嗎第二食安問題到底國人吃了多少到底每個人我們現在在會場其實幾乎每個人大家每天都是外食主我們吃了多少了有問題的有我們有人清楚嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1738.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1754.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
如果昨天都還有綠營委員提出來說未來要求中央部會要來做所謂的代位求償那我們更要問你要幫誰代位 替誰代位如果我們連自己都不知道我們吃了多少的有問題的油的話我們怎麼求償我看到業者有這兩天 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1755.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1773.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
有發票業者直接就研發了這個可以查詢有食用油的問題的APP那我們要問如果連一個民間業者都可以做出這樣的一個APP的話那我們的速發部在幹嘛能不能一起整合以及第三 這是國安問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1775.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1797.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
數據造假 上下交商賊讓自主管理變成了延遲通報讓食安武漢破工讓過去花了10億的食品雲徹底無效請賴清德總統正式立即召開重大國安會議並且...好 謝謝洪委員下一位請羅志強委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1813.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1828.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
難道是要護航業者食安如此重大議題民進黨卻選擇和業者站在一起而不是優先選擇保障民眾生命健康安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1829.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1840.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
這是台北市長蔣萬安對沉默至今漠視食安的賴清德總統的沉重質問他也同時呼籲賴清德總統針對食安召開國安會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1846.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1864.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
1300公噸含一級致癌物的本田皮沙拉油流向全國360家業者然後連學校營養午餐都淪陷至少165所學校曾使用問題油品查著查著從1300公噸現在變成27000公噸回顧這個食安風暴4月初 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1873.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1895.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
中聯油子產出該批問題油品到現在已經流入市面90天了多少民眾的健康受到威脅下油廠商南橋在6月11號就自主驗出油品不合格但是我們的主管單位衛福部在狀況外 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1897.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
1924.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
到6月30号接获通报还想大肆化小一度拒绝公布问题提油品的流向直到台北市台中市政府携手食安联防合作对这个问题的油品批号预防性下架食药署还说第二层产品不必下架只想大肆化小粉饰太平 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
1926.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
1953.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
而這種種的荒腔走板我們劉愛卿的總統完全不當一回事啊他還忙著開記者會宣布全面啟動選戰模式人心惶惶之際身為國家元首對獨遊隻字不提這是什麼樣冷漠的總統這是什麼樣不在乎我們今天食安的總統所以這邊我也要沉痛的說 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
1955.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
1972.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
民以食為天但是抱歉今天賴清德就是以民以食為地把人民的食安踩在地上踩蹂躪食安如果說中華民國歷任的政府誰最不重視食安就是賴清德總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
1973.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
1995.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
到現在為止請問賴總統以及他行政團隊你有好好的站出來對國人交代有好好的告訴我們今天行政疏失在哪裡好好告訴到底國人吃了多少油餅到肚子裡面通通沒有拜託賴清德總統亡羊補牢召開國安會議 謝謝好 謝謝羅委員接下來請林倩琦委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2015.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2018.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
正視原鄉食安別讓部落成為獨遊盲區 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2022.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2044.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
副院長、副會同仁、媒體朋友、全國民眾大家好本是要為獨有食安事件下最容易被忽略的原鄉來發聲近期中聯油脂大豆沙拉油檢驗出本評比不符合規定食藥署已經公佈受影響業者的名單並要求相關產品下架、回收以及資訊揭露 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2045.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2067.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
本席要在這邊提醒各部會,食安事件不能只有用商品下架的邏輯來處理尤其是本案涉及18公升業務用桶裝油那這類的油品早已經進入了餐廳、小吃攤、團善業者、中央廚房還有學校的午餐、文件站跟長照據點,人民可能已經吃下肚卻無從辨識 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2069.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2092.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
對都會的民眾而言飲食選擇眾多但是對原鄉跟偏鄉而言孩子高度仰賴學校的營養午餐長者高度仰賴文件站關懷據點這些集體公餐往往就是每天最主要的飲食來源因此政府應該要先確認問題有品有沒有流入原鄉偏鄉的團善餐飲跟供應鏈 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2093.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2105.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我國過去也曾經有多綠聯本米康油的中毒事件造成許多民眾長期受害其中包括了弱勢兒童與部分的原住民族人這段歷史提醒我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2106.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2132.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
製程的疏漏跟流向的控管不足往往都是最末端的消費者受害孩子長者與弱勢族群共同來承擔健康的代價本席呼籲原鄉食安不是全國食安的附帶項目而是應該優先掌握的高敏感場域尤其是調和油或加工食品一旦進入團散餐飲供應鏈消費者不可能從外觀來判斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2133.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2155.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
政府若只是公布名單要求地方衛生局自行掌握那麼原鄉就有可能因為資訊落差稽查能力不足供應鏈層層轉手而更難追溯問題有品本席在這邊呼籲衛福部教育部原民會應該立即建立重大食安事件的原鄉風險清查機制第一 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2156.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2178.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
3. |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2178.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2204.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
未來面對大宗食材、油品或調和食品的食安案件應建立更細緻的流向追蹤食安不只是城市貨架上的問題更是部落餐桌上的問題唯有把原鄉、偏鄉跟弱勢公餐場域納入食安治理核心才是真正守護全民健康好 謝謝林委員下一位請張志倫委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2217.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2235.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
副院長 各位同仁 各位媒體朋友大家早安 大家好近來一級致癌物質本田皮超標整整四倍的食用油風暴再度摧毀了人民對食安的信任更令人痛心的是面對如此嚴重的食安風暴 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2237.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2258.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
民進黨政府展現出來的不是危機處理能力而是政治操作優先的心態此次事件也暴露出中央對食安把關的機制已經徹底崩潰早在7月3號衛福部長就帶著官員向卓院長報告本次事件但令人無法接受的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2259.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2282.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
當時行政院居然拍板緩處理只要求下架第一層的油品試圖隱匿200多家受害加工業者的名單直到台北台中市的地方首長強硬地頂住政治壓力要求中央公開透明食藥署才在民怨下被迫應變 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2284.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2296.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
短短幾天政策三度轉彎從全面隱匿到問題由含量兩成以上下架最後眼看民怨四起才改盲改口 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2296.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2315.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
改口說全面下架本席想問遇到重大的食安問題只想著蓋牌想著卸責止血用政治考量放在專業科學之前的政府到底要把國人的健康置於何地從獨優豬狗到熱令停工 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2316.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2339.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
整整90天的工窗期等於讓全民被迫吃下了三個月的致癌油直到今天被污染需要預防性加價的油品更高達了27000公噸波及到的產品已經高達400多項多數都是民眾每天會接觸到的食品 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2340.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2365.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
甚至全台灣已經有881所的學校和幼兒園都用過相關的產品毒油問題直接燒進了孩子們的餐桌因此本席在這裡要代表人民發出最嚴重的抗議要求行政院必須立即公布完整事件的時間軸說明真相 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2366.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2380.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
同時全面查核並公開所有有問題的食品流向包含我們的校園的營養午餐等公共的公餐系統絕對不能再用擠牙膏的方式敷衍隱瞞 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2382.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2405.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
衛福部長在危機處理上荒腔左擺難辭急救重整各部會的行政院長正式蓋頭蓋牌放任毒油在市場流通嚴重堵值本席在這裡強烈要求賴清哲總統召開國安等級的食安會議還給人民一個食品安全好 謝謝張委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2407.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2419.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
登記國事論壇發言的委員均已發言完畢請各黨團幹部上午10點到議場後面主席辦公室進行本次會議議程式溝通現在休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
5180.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
5194.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
請祕書長報告出席人數報告院會出席委員50人已足法定人數現在開會報告院會先處理朝野黨團協商結論三件請議事人員宣讀第一件 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
5195.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
5219.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
依法院黨團協商結論時間115年7月9日星期四下午4時地點紅樓302會議室決定事項一請各黨團於7月16日星期四中午12時前將115年度中央政府總預算案之提案送至財政委員會會診預時不再收案二財政委員會收案後交各該委員會整理附印相關提案後於7月20日星期一中午12時前提供各黨團及相關行政部門參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
5220.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
5241.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
請行政部門先行向提案委員及黨團進行雙向說明落實溝通以利以後續進行密集協商主持人韓規江啟臣協商代表傅坤祺林佩祥徐宇貞蔡其昌莊惠雄范怡晨清榮王安祥邱慧路宣讀完畢請問院會對以上朝野黨團協商結論有異議沒有異議通過115年7月9日朝野黨團協商結論經決定如下 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
5246.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
5255.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
一 請各黨團一七月十六日星期四上午中午十二時前將一百一十五年度中央政府總運算案之提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
5255.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
5282.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
送至財政委員會會診,預時不再收案二,財政委員會收案後,交各該委員會整理、複印相關提案後於7月20日星期一中午12時前提供各黨團及相關行政部門參考請行政部門先向提案委員及黨團進行雙向說明、落實溝通以利後續進行密集協商請議事人員宣讀第二件 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
5284.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
5310.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
立法院黨團協商結論時間115年7月9日星期四下午4時地點紅龍302會議室決定事項一各黨團如有關於監察院院長副院長及監察委員被提名人之書面問題請於7月15日星期三中午12時前送至議事處會診並由本院函送提名機關轉資被提名人畢立後續審查之進行主持人韓國瑜江啟臣協商代表傅坤啟林培翔徐宇貞蔡啟昌莊熱熊范雲陳青龍王岩翔邱慧露宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
5311.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
5313.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
請問院會對以上朝野黨團協商結論有依 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
5316.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
5345.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
五一通過一百一十五年七月九日朝野黨團協商結論經決定如下一各黨團如有關於監察院院長副院長及監察委員被提名人之書面問題請於七月十五日星期三中午十二時前送至議事處會診並由本院函送提名機關轉至被提名人必利後續審查之進行請宣讀第三案 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
5346.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
5365.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
立法院黨團協商結論時間115年7月9日星期四下午4時地點紅樓302會議室決定事項一各黨團同意7月14日星期二下午邀請行政院院長率同相關部會首長列席提出中聯柚子大豆沙拉油事件及食安監管機制缺失檢討專案報告並被質詢質詢人數由國民黨黨團推派7人民進黨黨團推派7人台灣民眾黨黨團推派2人進行每位委員尋答時間10分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
5372.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
5395.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
質詢順序一例授權議事處辦理名單請於7月13日星期一中午12時前送交議事處會診預時視同放棄2.7月10日星期五如因颱風停止上班上課原定週五議程延至7月14日星期二上午舉行當次會議不處理臨時提案主持人韓國瑜江啟臣協商代表傅坤祺林沛翔徐宇貞蔡奇昌莊岳雄范雲陳清榮王安祥邱慧璐宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
5397.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
5417.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
請問議員會對以上朝野黨團協商結論有依依、無依依通過115年7月9日朝野黨團協商結論,經決定如下一、各黨團同意7月14日下午邀請行政院院長率同相關部會首長列席 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
5417.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
5429.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
提出中聯有指大豆沙奈爾事件及食安監管機制缺失檢討專案報告並被質詢質詢人數由國民黨黨團推派7人民進黨黨團推派7人 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
5431.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
5460.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
台灣民眾黨黨團推派兩人進行每位委員尋答時間10分鐘質詢順序依例授權議事處辦理名單起於7月13日星期一中午12時前送交議事處會者遇時適同放棄二7月10日星期五因颱風停止上班上課原定週五議程延至7月14日星期二上午舉行 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
5461.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
5475.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
當次會議不處理臨時提案包園會因本次會議議程有待溝通請各黨團幹部現在到議場後面主席辦公室進行溝通現在休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
8016.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
8038.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
八院會現在繼續開會因程旭委員會以本次會議議事日程草案送院會處理現有黨團依本院議事成立對本次議事日程草案提出異議現在進行處理並截止收案八院會現有黨團共事如下一 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
8039.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
8062.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
議程草案確認,循例依提案先後進行處理二、各黨團同意本次會議討論事項,僅列案如下第一案至第四案為依附議案二、安樂死公投案三、廢除非核政策公投案四、抵禦威權擴張案 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
8064.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
8091.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
三 副議案不發言進行處理四 討二至討四一般提案均不作提案說明大體討論於進行討二時由各黨團推派一人發言每人發言時間為三分鐘發言弊即不再進行發言討二及討三依提案進行表決討四不表決 盡負二賭交付協商發言會 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
8095.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
8107.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
本次院會後續依黨團共事進行先進行報告事項等部分請議事人員宣讀黨團之提議內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
8109.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
8128.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
本院民進黨黨團針對立法院第十一屆第五會期第十七次會議議事成報告事項諮詢事項禮請在內的報告事項五十五項如附表稍微遊蕩進行公決本院台灣民眾黨黨團針對第十一屆第五會期第十七次會議議權報告事項諮詢事項及行政院院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
8130.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
8148.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
提出中聯郵支大豆沙拉油事件及食安監管監制缺失檢討專案報告並被質詢7月14日下午提議僅限列議權草案所列及項標所列期13日是否有當進行公決本院國民黨黨團針對第11屆體育會期第17次會議議權報告事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
8152.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
8175.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
諮詢事項及協議院院長提出中聯郵政大豆沙拉郵事件及十案監管機制缺失檢討專案報告並辦諮詢7月13日下午提議請先列一宣草案所列及下秒所列73案是否有當進行公決宣讀完畢報告院會一先後處理各黨團提案報告院會先在案名7分鐘並分發表決卡 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
8186.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
8197.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
好 抱怨會現在在一場二樓旁聽喜的是台北市萬華區孝德里的鄉親朋友我們在這邊歡迎他們到立法院參訪 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
8623.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
8642.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
好,請問各位委員是不是都有拿到表決卡也請議事人員幫忙確認一下表決卡是不是每一位委員都有拿到好,如果都有拿到的話我們現在針對民進黨黨團提議進行表決現有民進黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團要求記名表決記名表決時間一分鐘現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
8660.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
8668.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
市長,你有沒有看過柯文哲議?我知道,我知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
8690.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
8691.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
嗯嗯 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
8725.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
8730.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
表決結果出席104人贊成48人反對56人棄權0人贊成則少數民進黨黨團提議不通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
8740.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
8752.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
報告院會現在處理台灣民眾黨黨團僅限列之提議因國民黨黨團之提議與該黨團提議相同所以就一併處理現在針對台灣民眾黨黨團國民黨黨團提議進行表決現有民進黨黨團台灣民眾黨黨團要求記名表決記名表決時間一分鐘現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
8770.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
8797.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
嗚 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
8800.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
8800.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
8839.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
8843.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
表決結果出席104人贊成56人反對48人棄權0人贊成者多數台灣民眾黨黨團國民黨黨團提議詐案通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
8855.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
8869.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
包園會本次會議議事日程報告事項質詢事項及專案報告照台灣民眾黨黨團國民黨黨團提議及協商結論通過包園會本次會議議事日程討論事項依黨團共識通過本次會議議事日程確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
8879.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
8906.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
現在進行報告事項請秘書長宣讀第五會期第十六次會議議事錄宣讀立法院第十一屆第五會期第十六次會議議事錄時間中華民國一百十五人七月三日七日到地點本院議場出席委員 紅委員 郁翔等一百十二人請教委員 林委員 怡謹主席 院長韓國瑜 副院長江啟臣報告事項第一頁宣讀本院 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
8906.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
8912.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
第11屆第5會及第15次會議事務決定確定第2至146案其中第4、5、7、3、7、4、9、3案均決定計劃圖與相關提案並按協商第70案為交通委員會所提出報告案第101、142案 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
8925.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
8954.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
均決定另第幾處理其一案均決定交互相關委員會審查或交互相關委員會諮詢事項行政院答覆部分五件同意全職行使事項決議一審視費未獲得超過全體立法委員歐元之一之同意票一法不同意為中央選舉委員會委員並為副主任委員二裁會者黃某信均未獲得超過全體立法委員歐元之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
8955.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
8967.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
之同意票 依法不同意為中央選舉委員會委員討論事項第一案決議交互黨團協商第二之四案均決議請院長召集協商協商後再行處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
8968.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
8995.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
第五六案決議通過其他事項依本次會議設置成報告事項等照台灣民眾黨黨團提議通過討論事項照國民黨黨團提議通過民進黨黨團提議出書建畫讀一案予以通過宣讀完畢法院會針對第五會期第十六次會議事錄並無委員或黨團提出錯誤或遺漏之處作為以下之決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
8996.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
9022.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
第五會期第十六次會議議事錄確定現在處理爭議的部分請宣讀第一案一 委員黃建豪的領區網際網絡媒合客運服務管理條例草案擬交交通委員會審查 宣讀完畢二 委員黃建豪的領區廣播電視法第五條審議及第四十四條之二條維修正常案擬交交通委員會審查 宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
9023.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
9036.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
3.委員羅志強的領據《尚言事件處理法》部分的維修正常案擬交司法及法律委員會審查 宣讀完畢4.委員羅志強的領據《刑事訴訟法》第16條解定134條之1條維修正常案擬交司法及法律委員會審查 宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
9044.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
9071.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
五 委員羅志祥的凝聚 中華民國新法第77.5 及第79.1 等維修院長案 擬交司法及法治委員會審查 宣讀完畢五 委員羅志祥的凝聚 教師第二條例部分等維修院長案 擬交司法及法治教育及文化兩務委員會審查 宣讀完畢五 委員翁曉琳的凝聚 中華民國新法第312 等維修院長案 擬交司法及法治委員會審查 宣讀完畢五 委員翁曉琳的凝聚 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
9072.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
9087.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
委員翁小林的凝聚 獨立武漢防治條例第33條 第33條之一及第36條兩委會審查 宣讀完畢委員郭臻安的凝聚 教師待遇條例部分兩委會審查 宣讀完畢委員盧仙怡的凝聚 陰害防治法部分兩委會審查 宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
9101.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
9103.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
委員委員委員委員委員委員委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
9120.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
9135.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
十三 委員馬文君難免去 土地稅法 三令第十七條 這一條文采案 擬交財政委員會審查 宣言完畢十四 委員馬文君難免去 房屋稅條例三令第五條 這一條文采案 擬交財政委員會審查 宣言完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
9139.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
9153.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
15.委員馬文君等你去勞運福利法3.25條之1條文草案你將身為福利機構上環境委員會審查宣讀完畢委員李倩琦等你去土地稅法第14條之1及第19條條文草案你將財政委員會審查宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
9156.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
9182.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
十七 委員林倩琦的領據 防護稅條例第五條 日議及第六條條文修正常案 擬交財政委員會審查 宣讀完畢十八 委員林倩琦的領據 毒病危害防治條例第三十三條及第三十六條條文修正常案 擬交司法及法治委員會審查 宣讀完畢十九 委員徐小新的領據 律師法第七條及第七十四條條文修正常案 擬交司法及法治委員會審查 宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
9184.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
9211.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
二十 委員薛曉信的理區律師法暫定第35條之一條文檢查案 擬交司法及法治委員會審查 宣讀完畢二十一 委員薛曉信的理區毒品危害防治條例第四條 第九條之一及第33條條文檢查案 擬交司法及法治委員會審查 宣讀完畢二十二 委員薛曉信的理區道學法第35條條文檢查案 擬交教育及文化委員會審查 宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
9212.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
9237.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
增列報告事項第22項現有國民黨黨團提議禁負二讀與相關提案併案協商請問院會有異議無異議本案禁負二讀與相關提案併案協商下一案23 委員許曉新的領域專業學校法第44條段文學院採訪院理教教育界文化委員會審查宣言完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
9240.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
9256.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
正列報告事項第二十三案 現有國民黨黨團提議 禁覆二讀與相關提案並且商 請問院會有異議不議本案禁覆二讀與相關提案並且商 下一案正列報告事項第二十四案 現有國民黨黨團提議 禁覆二讀與相關提案並且商 請問院會有異議 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
9270.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
9282.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
6.本案近乎二讀與相關提案,並且案下議案25.委員吳宗憲的領去刑事訴訟委員會審查,宣讀完畢26.委員賴世寶的領去,無方戰略無人載具文化採購及技術合作特別條例早案,也將問到及無方財政委員會審查,宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
9295.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
9310.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
增列報告事項第26項現有台灣民眾黨黨團提議改交經濟外交及國防財政三委員會審查請問院會有異議好有異議有異議進行表決 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
9315.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
9322.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
現在針對台灣民眾黨黨團提議改交審查進行表決現有民進黨黨團台灣民眾黨黨團要求記名表決記名表決時間一分鐘現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
9349.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
9370.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
國防預算就在國防審國防預算就在國防委員會審查到底是什麼意思啊國防委員 國防委員 國防委員 國防委員 國防委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
9380.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
9381.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
9401.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
9418.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
表決結果出席104人 贊成56人 反對48人 棄權0人 贊成者多數本案改交經濟外交及國防財政三委員會審查 下一案委員通告下一案 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
9426.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
9426.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
委員會議結束 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
9436.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
9461.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
委員 賴世寶的領據 無人載具產業升級方審條例草案 禮交經濟 外交及國防財政 三項擁護審查 宣讀完畢委員 董國鮮 三十 委員 張天才的領據 土地稅 法定 水系條 之一及第十九條條 無償的草案 禮交財政擁護審查 宣讀完畢委員 董國鮮 三十一 委員 張天才的領據 房屋稅條 第五條之一及第六條條 無償的草案 禮交財政擁護審查 宣讀完畢委員 董國鮮 三十一 委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
9464.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
9473.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
32.委員正編財的理據 所得稅法第十七條及第126條條文修正常案 擬交財經委員會審查 宣讀完畢33. |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
9473.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
9482.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
委員正編財的理據 公證人員保險法部分條文修正常案 擬交司法及法律委員會審查 宣讀完畢34. |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
9482.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
9489.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
委員盧廷偉的理據 中華民國新法第185條13條文修正常案 擬交司法及法律委員會審查 宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
9492.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
9502.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
35.委員羅廷偉擔理據陸海空軍行法第54條條文修正採案 擬交司法及法制公交警方 兩務有貴審查 宣讀完畢36. |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
9502.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
9511.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
委員羅廷偉擔理據 教師待遇條例部分 兩務修正採案 擬交司法及法制政務及文化 兩務有貴審查 宣讀完畢37. |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
9511.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
9519.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
委員張正文擔理據 甘蔡創造防治法部分 兩務修正採案 擬交秘訣社會福利及安全環境 兩務有貴審查 宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
9520.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
9520.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
9531.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
9557.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
三十九 委員陸委長的凝聚 道路交通管理處罰條例部分條文修正草案 擬交交通委員會審查 宣讀完畢四十 委員吳佩儀的凝聚 奪品外害防治條例第33條及第36條條文修正草案 擬交司法及法治委員會審查 宣讀完畢四十一 委員吳佩儀的凝聚 陸海工軍刑罰第54條條文修正草案 擬交司法及法治外交警罰 兩委員會審查 宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
9560.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
9580.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
四十二 委員吳佩儀的領據 登陸秋冬狗狸群伐條例部分條五修正草案 理交消沖勇會審查 宣布完畢四十三 委員陳俊宇的領據 陸海工軍軍官士官認識條例第九條之一及第二十二條條五修正草案 理交司法及法治外交機構法案的勿用會審查 宣布完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
9583.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
9602.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
44.委員陳俊宇的領據 駱海國軍軍官士官服役條例第29條及第61條的無償任責案 免交外交及國防委員會審查 宣布完畢45.委員陳俊宇的領據 軍運士兵服役條例第6條軍役第16條的無償任責案 免交外交及國防委員會審查 宣布完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
9603.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
9605.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
會議通告下案會議通告下案會議通告下案 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
9624.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
9650.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
四十八 委員劉建國的領據 食品安全衛生管理法第22條的維修應用草案 禮教生化福利及衛生環境維護審查 宣布完畢五十九 委員劉建國的領據 教育保險法部分的維修應用草案 禮教生化福利及衛生環境維護審查 宣布完畢五十 委員李光誠的領據 高級中美教育法第58條的維修應用草案 禮教教育前往化癌維護審查 宣布完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
9652.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
9674.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
正列報告事項第五十案 現有民進黨黨團提侵富二賭與相關提案並斷協商 請問院會有依 無依 仍按侵富二賭與相關提案並斷協商 下一案五十一 委員 李光誠的離去 專門學校法律事室在澳大利亞文學院 早安你將終於進完化委員會審查 宣告完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
9676.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
9697.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
整列報告事項第五十一案現有民進黨黨團提議禁服二讀與相關提案並難協商請問議員會有無異無異本案禁服二讀與相關提案並難協商下一案五十二 委員李貴昌的理據到宣法第三十五條兩五宣判採案李昌憲及王晃委員會審查 宣告完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
9699.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
9719.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
整列報告事項第五十二案現有民進黨黨團提議禁負二讀與相關提案並案協商請問議員會有異異本案禁負二讀與相關提案並案協商下案五十三委員李坤誠的女婿道路交通管理處罰調理部份的文書宣查案李江交通擁護審查宣讀完畢異動過下案 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
9722.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
9725.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
正列報告事項第五十四案現有台灣民眾黨黨團提議改交經濟外交及國防財政三委員會審查請問院會有異議有異議 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
9744.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
9751.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
有意進行表決現在針對台灣民眾黨黨團提議改交審查進行表決現有民進黨黨團台灣民眾黨黨團要求進行表決進行表決時間一分鐘現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
9787.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
9789.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
六十四啊 六十四啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
9831.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
9847.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
表決結果出席103人贊成55人反對48人棄權離人贊成者多數本案交經濟外交局國防財政三委員會審查下一案 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
9848.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
9877.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
五十五 委員禮官審法領據 中華民國刑法第七十七條及第七十九條之一條文修正常案 禮教司法執法支援或審查 宣讀完畢五十六 委員禮官審法領據 中華民國刑法執法部份的文修正常案 禮教司法執法支援或審查 宣讀完畢五十七 委員禮務請人領據 犯罪被案人權益保障法部份的文修正常案 禮教司法執法支援或審查 宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
9879.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
9906.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
五十八 委員林玉琴的理據 兒童及少年性剝削防汛條例部分的維修正常案 禮教生會福利及護生環境司法及法治兩位委員會審查 宣讀完畢五十九 委員郭玉琴的理據 工作人員保護身法部分的維修正常案 禮教司法及法治兩位委員會審查 宣讀完畢六十 委員郭玉琴的理據 依賴防汛法部分的維修正常案 禮教生會福利及護生環境委員會審查 宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
9907.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
9907.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
9916.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
9918.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
法定人數不足法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
9937.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
9941.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
正列報告事項第64案現有台灣民眾黨黨團提議改交經濟外交及國防財政三委會審查請問院會有異有異 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
9962.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
9971.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
有意進行表決現在針對台灣民眾黨黨團提議改交審查進行表決現有民進黨黨團台灣民眾黨黨團要求記名表決記名表決時間一分鐘現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
9989.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
9991.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
可以啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
10016.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
10017.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
現在唸,現在唸對啦,對啦修會入,莊家舊 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
10028.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
10042.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
有的要給國王審,有的要給經濟,不過兩個都提跟賴思寶一樣賴思寶負責,賴思寶負責我跟賴思寶沒比較經濟啊我跟賴思寶是負責連線啊賴思寶棄手 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
10048.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
10063.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
表決結果 出席105人 贊成57人 反對48人 棄權0人 贊成者多數 本案改交經濟外交及國防財政三委員會審查 下一案65. |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
10063.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
10069.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
主要出生地內部區遺害防治法規範點我宣認早日 年輕人身為不及物色環境委員會審查 宣言為逼 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
10072.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
10090.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
法院會 邱委員匯入聲明對剛才表決與台灣民眾黨黨團意見一致列入公報紀錄張委員嘉峻聲明對剛才表決與國民黨黨團意見一致列入公報紀錄 下一項如意通過 下一項 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
10091.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
10113.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
六十六 臺灣民眾黨黨團領據 安寧華國一樓條例第二條條文修正草案 擬交社會福利經貿上環境委員會審查 宣讀完畢六十七 臺灣民眾黨黨團領據 兒童青少年福利與權益保障法 第七條第五十四條 及第七十條之二條文修正草案 擬交社會福利經貿上環境委員會審查 宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
10116.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
10126.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
68.臺灣民眾腦囊囤凝聚 長期徵戶服務法部分條文修正草案 履交社會福利優先環境委員會審查 宣布完畢69. |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
10126.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
10135.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
臺灣民眾腦囊囤凝聚 依次日放射釋法第12條條文修正草案 履交社會福利優先環境委員會審查 宣布完畢70. |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
10135.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
10141.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
臺灣民眾腦囊囤凝聚 洗潔防治法第22條條文修正草案 履交410法支援會審查 宣布完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
10143.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
10155.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
七十一 臺灣民眾黨黨團領區電子競技運動促進保藏會 領教教育界亡亡委員會審查 宣讀完畢七十二 臺灣民眾黨黨團領區索德瑞馬地域水系調調務修正常任 領教財政委員會審查 宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
10160.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
10162.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
七十三 行政院函請示意議 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
10177.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
10177.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
10202.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
10226.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
本次會議報告事項記載於議事錄順序授權議事處調整現在繼續處理原列報告事項請宣讀第二案二 委員陣陣前的女婿相關碼第十五條條文修正草案擬交內政委員會審查 宣讀完畢五一通告下一案三 委員議員陣等女婿所得稅法第十七條條文修正草案擬交財政委員會審查 宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
10227.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
10254.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
五 委員認證的擬具中華民國新法第315條之二第319條之一及第319條之二條文宣告草案擬具司法及法律委員會審查宣讀完畢五 委員認證的擬具民法部份條文宣告草案擬具司法及法律委員會審查宣讀完畢報告四項第五案現有國民黨黨團體近乎二讀與相關提案併案協商請院會有異議 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
10256.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
10277.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
5.本案禁覆二讀與相關提案並按協商下案6.委員中消避難具道路交通管理處罰條例部分條文修正常案已交交通委員會審查宣布完畢5.委員中消避難具獨立武漢防治條例第43條及第46條條文修正常案已交司法執法支援會審查宣布完畢6.委員中消避難具獨立武漢防治條例第43條及第46條條文修正常案已交司法執法支援會審查宣布完畢7.委員中消避難具獨立武漢防治條例第43條及第46條條條文修正常案已交司法執法支援會審 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
10279.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
10300.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
8.委員 由後台委居 應為教育情商部發表第7號的午宵日早安 禮教教育局的網話是為福利及溫暖環境而來委員會審查 宣讀為逼報告事項第8案 現有國民黨黨團提議禁負二讀與相關提案併案協商請問願會有異 無異本案禁負二讀與相關提案併案協商 下一案 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
10301.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
10309.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
9.委員由浩南理據《兒童青少年福利與權益保障法》在內第25條之一及第26條之三條為責任也將社會福利優先環境委員會審查宣言完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
10312.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
10314.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
五一動過線十五一動過線五一動過線 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
10332.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
10360.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
十二委員張宏祿的凝聚全民健康保險法第八十五條條維修正常案擬交社會福利及文化環境委員會審查宣讀完畢委員王育敏的凝聚法院組織法部分條維修正常案擬交司法及法治委員會審查宣讀完畢委員王育敏的凝聚刑事訴訟法第一百零一條之二及第一百零一條十三條維修正常案擬交司法及法治委員會審查宣讀完畢委員王育敏的凝聚刑事訴訟法第一百零一條之二及第一百零一條十三條維修正常案擬 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
10361.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
10379.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
15.委員王玉敏來凝聚志願服務法部份條文修正常案李江社會福利金融上環境委員會審查 宣讀完畢16.委員李柏毅來凝聚大陸充當法律處罰條例第35條第35條之二及第35條之三條文修正常案李江交通委員會審查 宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
10381.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
10397.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
十七 委員李柏毅的領據 中華民國刑法第185條13條文修正草案 擬交司法及法治委員會審查 宣讀完畢十八 委員李柏毅的領據 應案方針法的部分條文修正草案 擬交社會福利經貨商環境委員會審查 宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
10399.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
10401.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
無異黨告下案無異黨告下案無異黨告下案無異黨告 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
10429.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
10435.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
報告事項第二十二案現有民進黨黨團提議禁覆二讀與相關提案併案協商請問願會有依依本案禁覆二讀與相關提案併案協商下一案 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
10453.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
10480.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
23.委員徐志傑讓你去東陸交通管理處把條例第九條條文書院的草案擬交交通委員會審查 宣告完畢委員通過下案24.委員讓委長讓你去專案學校法第四十四條條文書院的草案擬交交通委員會審查 宣告完畢報告事項第24案現有國民黨黨團提議淨富二讀與相關提案併案協商請議會有異異本案淨富二讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
10481.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
10488.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
與相關提案並案協商 下一案報告事項第二十五案現有國民黨黨團提議禁覆二讀與相關提案並案協商請問院會有無異無異本案禁覆二讀與相關提案並案協商 下一案 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
10504.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
10523.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
二十六 委員讓委員長等離去 中華民國新法第185條13條為修正長案 擬交司法及法徵委員會審查 宣讀完畢二十七 委員讓委員長等離去 毒品危害防治條例第33條及第36條等為修正長案 擬交司法及法徵委員會審查 宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
10524.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
10542.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
二十八 委員陳雪山的領據 高級中南教育法 增訂第四十五條之一條文草案 禮教教育及文化委員會審查 宣讀完畢二十九 委員陳雪山的領據 議員教育及社務法第十八條 條文修正草案 禮教教育及文化社會福利基金會審 環境委員會審查 宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
10544.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
10554.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
30.委員陳雪山的凝聚 氣象法第二條條文修正常案 禮教雙中委員會審查 宣讀完畢31. |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
10554.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
10561.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
委員陳雪山的凝聚 老人福利法第17條條文修正常案 禮教生衛福利金融上環境委員會審查 宣讀完畢32. |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
10561.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
10570.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
委員陳雪山的凝聚 老人福利法第17條條文修正常案 禮教生衛福利金融上環境委員會審查 宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
10573.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
10596.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
33.委員陳雪生的理據 緊急醫療中控法第五條條文修正常案 擬交社會福利金融環境委員會審查 宣讀完畢34.委員賴慧元的理據 所得稅法第十七條條文修正常案 擬交財政委員會審查 宣讀完畢35.委員賴慧元的理據 公司法第十三條條文修正常案 擬交司法及法治委員會審查 宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
10598.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
10606.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
36.委員陳蘇悅等人去國防自主無人採取採購特別條例草案你將外交及國防財政三委員會審查宣讀完畢報告四項第36案現有台灣民眾黨黨團提議改交經濟外交及國防財政三委員會審查請務院會有異有異 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
10621.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
10629.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
進行表決現在針對台灣民眾黨黨團提議改交審查進行表決現有民進黨團台灣民眾黨黨團要求記名表決記名表決時間一分鐘現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
10653.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
10654.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
為什麼為什麼為什麼為什麼為什麼為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
10681.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
10682.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
無事 無事 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
10709.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
10723.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
表決結果出席105人贊成57人反對48人棄權0人贊成者多數本案改交經濟外交及國防財政三委會審查下一案 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
10726.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
10753.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
三十七委員陳促若等領據道路交通管理署法條例部分條文修正常案擬交交通委員會審查宣讀完畢三十八委員吳立華等領據教育經費編列與管理法第三條第十條及第十三條條文修正常案擬交交務及文化委員會審查宣讀完畢三十九委員吳立華等領據文化藝術講述及促進條例第十五條條文修正常案擬交交務檢劃財產量委員會審查宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
10756.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
10763.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
40.委員 吳立華 等你據《陸海公聚情法》第54條條五修正掌案 擬交司法及法治外交及國防兩院會審查 宣讀完畢41. |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
10763.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
10769.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
委員 吳立華 等你據《脫貧武漢防治條例》第33條及第36條條五修正掌案 擬交司法及法治兩院會審查 宣讀完畢42. |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
10769.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
10774.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
委員 吳立華 等你據《中華民國刑法》第185條13條五修正掌案 擬交司法及法治兩院會審查 宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
10783.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
10809.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
五一通告下案四十三 委員復婚期以來領據法務稅條例第五條之一及第六條條文書認查案 擬交財經委員會審查 宣讀完畢五一通告下案四十四 委員復婚期以來領據土地稅法第十七條之一及第十九條條文書認查案 擬交財經委員會審查 宣讀完畢五一通告下案四十五 委員復婚期以來領據教育基本法第六條條文書認查案 擬交教育及文化委員會審查 宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
10810.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
10810.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
10829.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
10847.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
四十八 委員副官級的鄰居 職業災害勞工保護法第二條及第五條條文修正常案 聯交社會福利金融上環境委員會審查 宣布完畢四十九 委員副官級的鄰居 勞工福利法第二條及第五條條文修正常案 聯交社會福利金融上環境委員會審查 宣布完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
10850.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
10875.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
五十 委員謝鋒健的領據 獨併武漢防治條例第33條及第36條條文修正草案 擬交司法及法律委員會審查 宣讀完畢五十一 委員羅志強的領據 資控防治法修正草案 擬交司法及法律委員會審查 宣讀完畢五十二 委員蔡玉蘭的領據 國防自主無人採取採購特別條例草案 擬交務政及國防採取的聯絡委員會審查 宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
10877.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
10897.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
報告四項第五十二案現有台灣民眾黨黨團提議交經濟外交及國防財政三委會審查行務院會有依有依進行表決現在針對台灣民眾黨黨團提議改交審查進行表決現有民進黨黨團台灣民眾黨黨團要求記名表決記名表決時間一分鐘現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
10909.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
10909.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
好好好 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
10925.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
10927.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
请不吝点赞订阅订阅 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
10945.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
10948.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
我只是為代表時間幫他宣告一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
10980.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
10992.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
表決結果出席106人,贊成58人,反對48人,棄權0人,贊成者多數本案改交經濟外交局國防財政三委員會審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
10995.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
11017.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
發言會 閣委員如今聲明對剛才表決與國民黨黨團意見一致列入公報紀錄發言會 本日程序委員會輪值召集委員沈委員發會表示今日程序委員會開會時間延後至中午院會休息後再行召開下一案 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
11018.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
11032.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
五十四 委員蔡英文的理據 登錄交通法令處罰逃離部分條文 宣布完畢五十四 委員蔡英文的理據 中華民國新法第186 條文 宣布完畢五十四 委員蔡英文的理據 中華民國新法第186 條文 宣布完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
11040.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
11061.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
55.委員陳玉珊論點據 領導有簽證條例第10條 第10條之3及第17條條文修正常案 領教育基金委員會上場 宣讀完畢報告四項第55案 現有國民黨黨團提議 金富二賭與相關提案並且商 請問願會有異異本案金富二賭與相關提案並且商 下一案 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
11062.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
11089.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
五十六 委員陳佑珊的領據 國民體育法第五條 及第二十二條 追一條維修正常案 禮教教育及文化委員會審查 宣告完畢五十七 委員陳佑珊的領據 地性管理法第一條 及第九十三條 追一條維修正常案 禮教教育委員會審查 宣告完畢五十八 委員徐副委員的領據 偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第十五條 追一條維修正常案 禮教教育及文化委員會審查 宣告完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
11090.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
11109.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
響鐘響鐘響鐘響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
11110.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
11135.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
61.委員徐富偉的領據 獨併武漢防水條例第33條及第36條的五修正常案 擬交司法及法律委員會審查 宣布完畢62.委員徐富偉的領據 陸海工具刑法第54條的五修正常案 擬交司法及法律或交際股法的委員會審查 宣布完畢63.委員何欣淳的領據 道路中中管理處罰條例部門的五修正常案 擬交中中委員會審查 宣布完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
11138.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
11161.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
64.委員何欣璇的領據中華民國刑法第185條第3條無修正常案 擬交司法及法治委員會審查 宣讀完畢65.委員何欣璇的領據陸海空軍刑法第54條條無修正常案 擬交司法及法治外交機務防難委員會審查 宣讀完畢66.委員陳昌明的領據植物品種及種苗法第44條條無修正常案 擬交經紀委員會審查 宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
11166.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
11192.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
六十七 委員陳忠銘的領據 國一新英國立法第十四條條務修正草案 擬交經濟委員會審查 宣讀完畢六十八 委員陳忠銘的領據 教師待遇條例第二條第十六條均應及第十七條條務修正草案 擬交司法及法制正規解剖法兩委員會審查 宣讀完畢六十九 委員林益勤的領據 不妨自主無人採取採購特別條例草案 擬交招及不妨採取兩委員會審查 宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
11195.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
11207.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
報告事項第69案現有台灣民眾黨黨團提議改交經濟外交及國防財政三委會審查請議會有異議有異議進行表決現在針對台灣民眾黨黨團提議改交審查進行表決現有民進黨黨團台灣民眾黨黨團要求記名表決記名表決時間一分鐘現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
11231.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
11232.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
哦哦哦哦 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
11291.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
11302.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
表決結果出席106人,贊成58人,反對48人,棄權0人,贊成者多數本案改交經濟外交及國防財政三委員會審查下案 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
11303.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
11329.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
七十 委員 林益勤的領據 道路交通管理處罰條例部分條文修正常案 擬交交通委員會審查 宣讀完畢七十一 委員 林益勤的領據 中華民國新法第185條13條文修正常案 擬交司法及法律委員會審查 宣讀完畢七十二 委員 林益勤的領據 毒品武漢防治條例第33條解第36條條文修正常案 擬交司法及法律委員會審查 宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
11330.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
11337.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
七十四 委員吳思瑤的領據國防自主人採取採購特別條例責任報告四項第七四案現有台灣民眾黨黨團提議改交經濟外交及國防財政三委會審查請問願會有依 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
11360.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
11365.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
有異議進行表決現在針對台灣民眾黨黨團提議改交審查進行表決現有民進黨黨團台灣民眾黨黨團要求記名表決記名表決時間一分鐘現在開始反對 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
11393.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
11393.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
11448.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
11460.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
稿決結果出席104人贊成56人反對48人棄權0人贊成者多數本案改交經濟外交局國防財政三委員會審查下案 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
11461.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
11477.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
七十五 委員吳思瑤的領據 突變武漢防制條例第33條條文促進採案 擬交司法及法律委員會審查 宣布完畢七十六 委員邱建偉的領據 台灣地區與大陸地區人民關係條例第37條條文促進採案 擬交內政委員會審查 宣布完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
11482.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
11497.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
77 委員邱振偉的領據 能源管理法部分的維修正常案 離交基金委員會審查 宣讀完畢78 委員邱振偉的領據 廣播電視法第21條及第44條 維修正常案 離交交通委員會審查 宣讀完畢79 委員邱振偉的領據 勞工保險條例第31條條 維修正常案 離交社會福利優先環境委員會審查 宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
11508.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
11516.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
八十 委員賴玉龍的領據國防資助人員採取採購貼品條例草案領先呼召其國防財政聯委會審查宣告完畢報告事項第八十案現有台灣民眾黨黨團提議改交經濟外交及國防財政三委會審查請務院會有異議有異議進行表決現在針對台灣民眾黨黨團提議改交審查進行表決現有民進黨黨團台灣民眾黨黨團要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
11536.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
11537.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
記名表決時間一分鐘現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
11589.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
11589.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
好 走 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
11609.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
11628.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
表決結果初期106人贊成58人反對48人棄權0人贊成者多數本案改交經濟外交及國防財政三委員會審查包圓會謝委員榮介土委員全集聲明對剛才表決與國民黨黨團意見一致列入公報紀錄下一案 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
11629.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
11629.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
11642.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
11663.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
82.委員羅廷偉的《領區大學法》部分的委修正常案 李教授及文化委員會審查 宣讀完畢83.內政部函宋教育美學服務地形化基於應屆賽及不得其賽事項 李教內政委員會 宣讀完畢84.內政部修正營建事業再生利用者再生資源項目及規範 李教內政委員會 宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
11664.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
11667.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
覆通告下一案覆通告下一案覆通告下一案 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
11679.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
11704.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
八十七 經濟部修正擴展權利經濟會會計播放辦法第三條第七條的文集第四條付表 理交經濟委員會 宣讀完畢八十八 經濟部修正定業事務通報程序標準 理交經濟委員會 宣讀完畢本案國民黨黨團提議改交審查本案將交經濟委員會審查 下一案 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
11705.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
11716.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
89.農業部修正公告美國新墨西哥州肯塔集中為高病原性加潛入性性感冒肺炎群,已交經濟委員會,宣讀完畢90. |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
11716.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
11723.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
農業部修正寵物食品業者申報辦法第五條條文,已交經濟委員會,宣讀完畢91. |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
11723.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
11728.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
本案國民黨黨團提議改交審查,本案交經濟委員會審查,下案 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
11728.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
11749.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
九十一 農業部修正水稻收入保險實施及保險費補修辦法第十二條條文 您將接近委員會 宣讀完畢九十二 農業部修正委員沈跳雲選赴印度洋作業管理辦法部分條文即第二十二條附件十一 第四十八條附件十三 第五十六條附件十五 您將接近委員會 宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
11752.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
11761.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
93.金融金融管理委員會修正金融庫服務公司及行業內部控制及集合制度實施辦法禮教財政委員會 宣讀完畢94. |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
11761.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
11774.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
教育部修正國民小學與國民中學編輯班制及教職員擁有編輯準則第3條及第4條條文禮教教育及文化委員會 宣讀完畢95. |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
11774.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
11780.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
教育部修正教育業務正面服務條例辦法第二條條文禮教教育及文化委員會 宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
11782.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
11791.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
96.教育部修正《非正規教育學習成就認證辦法》第二條條文《離教教育及文化委員會》宣布完畢97. |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
11791.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
11804.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
司法局海外民國122年6月21日修正公佈之《加持實行法》第三條第96條及第185條條文定制109年8月日施行《離教司法及法治委員會》宣布完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
11805.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
11831.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
響鐘響鐘響鐘響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
11832.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
11847.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
100.交通部修正交通部高速公路局北區養護工程分局編制表交通部高速公路局中區養護工程分局編制表及交通部高速公路局南區養護工程分局編制表擬交司法及法制交通良務委員會宣言完畢101. |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
11847.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
11853.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
沃山福利部修正專科醫師分科及精神辦法擬交社會福利及優先環境委員會宣言完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
11854.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
11881.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
國民黨黨團提議改交審查本案交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查下一案102 衛生福利不修正食品中動物藥藥殘留量檢驗方法安基醣跟類抗生素再檢驗1你將社會福利及衛生環境委員會宣讀完畢衛生福利不修正食品中動物藥藥殘留量檢驗方法安基醣跟類抗生素再檢驗1你將社會福利及衛生環境委員會宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
11883.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
11910.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
福利通過 下一案104 衛生福利部函送醫療廢棄物在利用許可審查收費標準 擬交社會福利及環境委員會 宣布完畢國民黨黨團提議改交審查本案 交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查 下一案105 衛生福利部修正感染性生物材料管理辦法 擬交社會福利及環境委員會 宣布完畢國民黨黨團提議改交審查本案 交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查 下一案 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
11912.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
11940.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
106 環境務修正內管毒性化學物質及其運作管理事項公告事項部分付表你將社會福利及社會環境委員會宣讀完畢國民黨黨團提議改交審查本案交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查下一案107 環境務修正環境檢驗策定機構違反環保法規法環額度再發準則第一條第二條及第四條條文你將社會福利及社會環境委員會宣讀完畢本案通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
11942.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
11966.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
報告院會第108案至第137案提請依序宣讀其中第111案台灣民眾黨黨團提議改交審查宣讀後第111案改交財政委員會審查其餘議案均照議事處意見通過請問院會有違議不違議宣讀後通過請宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
11967.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
11967.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
好 委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
11997.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
12001.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
138案及質詢事項請一併宣讀宣讀後第138案准予被查請宣讀報告院會 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
12023.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
12050.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
報告事項均已處理完畢現在進行討論事項第一案本院台灣民眾黨黨團針對第十一屆第五會期第十六次會議增列報告事項第三十一案及第七十二案院會所作決定提出覆議請公決案本案經第五會期第十六次會議決議令定期處理現在進行處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
12055.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
12066.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
法院會一黨團共事本案不發言現在針對台灣民眾黨黨團所提復議案進行表決現有民進黨黨團台灣民眾黨黨團要求記名表決記名表決時間一分鐘現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
12096.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
12096.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
親愛的 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
12112.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
12133.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
12146.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
12168.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
表決結果出席106人贊成48人反對58人贊成者少數決議不通過本案報告事項照原作決定通過討論事項第二案本院台灣民眾黨黨團拟據公投提案主文為 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
12169.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
12198.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
您是否同意政府應將安樂死法制化以保障生命自主權為前提提供罹患難以治癒之疾病與承受難以忍受痛苦者在制度配套規範下可依其自主意志進行安樂死已達到尊嚴善終請公決案請議事人員宣讀提案內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
12199.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
12228.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
北約台灣民眾黨保團該回應社會對生命尊嚴的殷切需求並深化基本人權之保障原理局溝通提案主文為你是否同意政府應將安樂死法治化以保障生命自主權為前提提供罹患難以鎮癒之疾病與承受難以忍受痛苦者在制度配套規範下可依其自主意志進行安樂死以達到尊嚴山中是否有道進行全民公決 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
12228.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
12245.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
稅務委員第一依照立法院職權行使法第八條第三項之規定本案經提案人說明提案子去大提討論後即一決交付審查或禁付二讀或不予審議法院會依黨團共事 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
12247.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
12276.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
本案提案說明不發言報告院會現在進行大體討論依黨團共識討論事項第二案至第四案大體討論一併於進行本案時由各黨團各推派一人發言第三案及第四案均不再發言現在請各黨團推派之代表發言首先請莊委員瑞雄發言時間三分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
12284.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
12305.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
主席各位媒體朋友還有我們各位立法院的同仁今天民主進步黨針對這兩個公投案我們要表達我們不同的一個看法尤其是暗肋死涉及到法律涉及到倫理涉及到醫療甚至涉及到宗教我相信各黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
12306.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
12324.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
的委員可以感受到當安慰死那個真跡你一把它按下去的時候那個生命其實它是不可逆的這是不可逆的我覺得有人會認為最可怕的部分不是有人想死 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
12325.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
12344.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
而是到最後有人會覺得說他不該活這樣的一個制度我相信安樂死從20世紀討論到21世紀社會上 國際上有共識嗎其實他也沒有共識真正透過公投然後去完成整個安樂死的一個立法全世界只有一個國家叫做紐西蘭國會有辦法去做決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
12350.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
12374.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
涉及到複雜的公共政策我們把它丟給老百姓做決策表面上看起來是尊重民意讓人民來做最後的一個選擇但是大家想一想這樣對嗎這麼複雜的一個公共的一個政策只透過一張公投的一個選票同意或者不同意來做一個決定這個我們立法院叫做失職了 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
12375.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
12394.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
全世界的國家在決定到底要不要安樂死我看除了紐西蘭用公投以外其他的國家都是國會來同意那我們國會可以做的我們都自認為立法院除了生小孩沒有辦法以外我們什麼事都可以做的那我們立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
12394.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
12419.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
我們不敢去做決定丟鬼人民把他生命把他當成一種選舉動員的一個工具善施真的要善施另外一個公投案各位把它想一想能源政策到底要不要多元化這個在台灣我們也討論了很久你說非核家園大家想到的就是說台灣經濟要發展AI資料中心我們需要很多電 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
12421.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
12444.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
負責任的執政黨當然要對於經濟的一個發展提供足夠的能源讓他供電來做一個充足但是把它想想看你說政府供電的一個穩定責任但是核安的問題也是政府必須要去考慮到核廢料該怎麼樣放在什麼地方各黨難道不需要共同來想出辦法有一個出路嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
12445.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
12470.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
低階的核廢料我們以目前立法院通過的法治裡面需要地方來公投2012年國民黨執政的時候你說把台東達仁鄉或者金門的烏丘你說要把核廢料放在那個地方地方全部都反對不配合公投那高階核廢料怎麼辦我們一個公投下去核廢料真的找到解決的方式嗎善失啊好 謝謝莊委員下一位請羅志強委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
12489.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
12502.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
為什麼立法院要提出公投因為我們中華民國有一個政黨叫做選輸不認黨就是民進黨因為有一個政黨叫做著是今非黨就是民進黨啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
12503.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
12532.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
我告訴大家剛剛莊委員講得非常好他說我們立法政策形成立法院就可以決定法律啦那為什麼要公投講得太好了這叫正常民主國家但是不是啊今天立法院通過的法律我們親愛的執政黨偉大的賴清德會跟你講說這不服民意所以我不公佈不附屬不執行你立法院通過法律不算數啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
12533.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
12560.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
不算數怎麼辦賴清德發明一個最重要的賴清德式的民主帖則叫做更大的民主所以為什麼今天面對不管是邊形公投民進黨提出來的安樂死民眾黨提出來安樂死公投我們今天廢除非核的公投為什麼要提出這些公投因為我們遇到百年難得一見的著是經非黨跟選輸不認黨啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
12563.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
12587.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
我們就拿非核廢除的這件事來說抱歉啊我非常尊敬我們民進黨的委員們啊民進黨的委員們在大罷免的時候把我們今天國民黨反對非核這個錯誤能源政策的委員全部列成罷免理由啊誰敢反對非核家園就罷免他敢反對就罷免他 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
12589.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
12612.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
結果反了半天 怎麼了 發生什麼事啊 都忘了啊那記得總統出來跟大家講 謝謝我們國民黨 謝謝民眾黨因為核管法修正之後 我們可以重啟核電了了不起嘛 那我只問一件事情 真要還公道我想請問在座的民進黨立委 要不要自己發動報名自己 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
12614.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
12631.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
7.26下個禮拜罷免一周年要不要重啟罷免啊民進黨所有今天跟著賴清德總統把廢核家園廢除民進黨立委罷免你自己嘛沒有啦我沒那麼殘忍啦沒那麼殘忍啦所以今天我們為什麼提出公投 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
12633.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
12653.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
就是因為今天因應一個所謂的不正常的執政黨因應一個著是經費的執政黨我們只能用民進黨自己耐心的說的更大的民主來告訴大家我們今天民進黨一天每天反反覆覆半夜吃西瓜改變來變去的一些政策態度我們讓人民決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
12655.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
12675.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
邊行大家當然有意見有人贊成有人反對黃孟寡委員提出來就公投嘛公投以後如果人民要的話民進黨你不要再反覆了你不要再不公佈不附屬不執行了否則就跟人民作對謝謝大家謝謝好謝謝羅委員下一位請邱惠如委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
12687.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
12709.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
主席還有各位委員大家好各位媒體朋友大家好安樂死曾經是非常爭議非常具有話題性的一個議題但是隨著社會氛圍的改變安樂死突破了一個禁忌的防線越來越多人在討論也許是個人自主生命權的保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
12709.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
12725.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
也許是因為老人人口越來越多也許是因為失能者的失能困境我們這個政府沒有辦法加以解決也許是因為長照悲歌一首又一首的在我們眼前上演 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
12725.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
12743.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
所以氛圍不一樣了安樂死開始有人在大聲疾呼安樂死的倡議到安樂死的立法完成我想中間還有很多漫漫長路要走目前雖然有安寧緩和醫療條例雖然有病人自主權益保障法 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
12743.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
12757.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
但是安寧緩和醫療條例它所適用的對象是末期病人病人自主權利保障法它所適用的對象是末期病人植物人不可逆昏迷不可逆的病人還有嚴重的失智患者 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
12758.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
12783.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
所以有一群人也就是罹患疾病無法治癒而承受痛苦的人他沒有安寧緩和醫療條例也沒有病人自主權利法的一個適用空間在這種情況之下這群人的權益也應該要保障所以我們台灣民眾黨提出了一個叫做尊嚴善終法就是讓罹患疾病無法治癒而承受痛苦的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
12789.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
12815.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
達到尊嚴善終的目的這是生命的結束也是靈魂的重生也讓承受痛苦的人能夠看到人生的一絲希望我想生命的價值不是在於活得久而是在於活得有尊嚴有些人他並不是想要放棄生命而是想要有尊嚴的走完人生的最後一里路而不是被疾病所拖累所襲擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
12817.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
12837.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
關於尊嚴善終法我們希望能夠在自主權力的保障之下完全法規的配套之下讓罹患疾病承受痛苦的人有人生多一個選項但是因為安樂死的議題它其實涉及醫療倫理法律 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
12838.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
12862.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
價值判斷價值選擇的問題所以我們認為這不是少數的幾個政治人物可以左右的一個政策我們希望能夠把這個議題交付公投讓全民來做決定作為我們推行政策的依據所以我在這邊很慎重的跟大家說明我們公投的主文您是否同意政府應該將安樂死法治化保障生命自主權為前提提供離 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
12864.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
12866.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
發言會各黨團推派委員均與發言完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
12889.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
12898.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
現在台灣民眾黨黨團提議本案禁覆二讀依黨團共識進行表決現在針對台灣民眾黨黨團提議禁覆二讀進行表決現有民進黨黨團台灣民眾黨黨團要求記名表決記名表決時間一分鐘現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
12920.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
12922.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
啊 我知道了 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
12989.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
13017.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
表決結果出席105人贊成57人反對48人棄權0人贊成者多數台灣民眾黨黨團提議召喚通過決議本案禁負二讀法院會現有本院委員陳青龍等針對方才禁負二讀之決議提出覆議並請院會隨即表決處理法院會現在進行本件覆議案之處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
13017.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
13022.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
現在進行表決針對委員陳慶龍等所提復議案現有民進黨黨團台灣民眾黨黨團要求記名表決記名表決時間一分鐘現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
13102.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
13106.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
表決結果出席165人,贊成48人,反對57人,棄權0人,贊成者少數,不一樣,不通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
13115.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
13137.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
依據立法院職權行使法第74條之一規定交付黨團協商做以下之決議交付黨團協商並由台灣民眾黨黨團負責召集協商討論事項第三案本院國民黨黨團理據公投提案主文為 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
13138.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
13158.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
您是否同意政府廢除非核家園等能源政策以確保國民健康穩定供電便宜電價提升國防韌性及支持人工智慧AI產業發展請公決案請議事人員宣讀提案內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
13158.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
13176.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
本院國民黨黨團有介於賴慶的總統日前表示在人工智慧時代因應氣候變遷以及地緣政治變化等三因素使得台灣進入一個新的情勢政府對重啟核電保持開放態度並強調在114年5月17日核三廠二號機停轉之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
13180.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
13204.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
臺灣已經達到廢核疆原的目標故主張廢除廢核疆原作為我國能源政策目標將核能重新納入國家能源發展的重要選項適度提高核能發電占比建立安全穩定多元且低碳的能源結構降低對火力發電及進口燃料的依賴確保合理電價與穩定供電提升國家能源安全與國防韌性並 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
13207.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
13226.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
并为人工智慧AI半导体及高科技产业提供充足稳定的电力来源兼顾国民健康经济发展及国家永续为新一代打造更安全更具竞争力的台湾原依据公民投票法第12条第二项制规定也据公民投票提案主文文 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
13227.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
13255.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
您是否同意政府廢除非核膠原的能源政策以確保國民健康穩定供電便宜定價提升無防任性及支持人工智慧AI產業發展是否有道進行公決宣讀完畢依照立法院職權行使法第八條第三項規定本案經提案人說明提案子去大體討論後即議決交付審查或進付二讀或不予審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
13256.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
13273.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
包園會依黨團共事本案提案說明不發言大提討論不再發言包園會現有國民黨黨團提議本案金複二讀依黨團共事進行表決現在針對國民黨黨團提議金複二讀進行表決現有民進黨黨團要求記名表決記名表決時間一分鐘現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
13300.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
13315.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
13353.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
13356.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
表決結果出席106人,贊成58人,反對48人,棄權 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
13361.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
13378.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
林仁贊成者多數國民黨黨團提議詔案通過決議本案禁覆二讀報告院會現有本院委員傅坤祺等針對方才禁覆二讀之決議提出覆議並請院會隨即表決處理報告院會 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
13383.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
13395.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
現在進行處理本件復議案現在進行表決針對委員傅坤祺等所提復議案現有民進黨黨團要求記名表決記名表決時間一分鐘現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
13422.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
13442.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
台灣社會到底是不支持代理運動交給人民決定啊台灣社會到底是不支持代理運動提案來表決看看啊公投看看啊把代理運動提案來公投啦代理運動提案來公投啦看台灣社會支持不支持啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
13446.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
13466.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
東北 你自己沒關係啊我表現你自己不在於我我反對我有什麼樣的依賴當支持也有什麼樣的依賴呢在英國的社會主義總統拿出來的工作直接依賴直接依賴 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
13470.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
13492.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
結果出席106人,贊成48人,反對58人,棄權0人,贊成者少數,附議案不通過討論事項第四案,本院民進黨黨團更正依據立法院職權行使法第七四條之一規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
13493.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
13518.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
交付黨團協商做以下決議交付黨團協商並由國民黨黨團負責召集協商報院會討論事項第四案本院民進黨黨團為維護國人安全抵禦威權擴張建請院會做成決議請公決案請議事人宣讀提案內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
13519.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
13530.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
北約民進黨黨團針對中國政府於今 強行實施民族團結進步促進法企圖透過其國內法刑侵犯大陸主權人權知識將威權政治控制延伸至境外並擴大跨國征要引發理和國歐洲議會多國政府及國際人權團體之強烈譴責與高度關切 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
13544.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
13573.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
民族团结进一步促进法条文定义模糊执法标准任意更严重违反联合国宪章等国际规范未来举凡坚持中华民国是一个国家中华民国是神存在或主张与中国对等尊严反对北京威权之言行居可能遭迫害此举不仅对某个国民之身的安全构成重大威胁也严重侵害各国主权为了护国民安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
13573.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
13596.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
立法院代表中華民國選舉國民進行農會做成決議如下一 針對中國政府將立法罪名顯恐慌之時企圖在國際社會製造寒蟬效應威脅我國國民人身安全立法院不分黨派予以最嚴厲之譴責並將互相守護國人安全二 僅與該法道府提供我國人民赴海外旅行 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
13597.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
13613.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
輕鬆及學術交流致風險政府應積極採取應處措施包括研修相關法律規範嚴懲協力行為在內等部分競權複充與海外風險與其機制協助國人企業學術界及民間團體強化風險辨識與安全意識 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
13617.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
13640.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
3.該法賦予中國執法機關五線擴大及深深權力以共產不限國籍不分定義等全球性成備鎮壓外捍衛人權特此呼籲全球理念相近的國家深化合作共同抵禦威權擴張阻全日韓侵犯探獲主權之行徑維護普世人權價值是否有的僅供權案宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
13644.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
13665.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
依照立法院職權行使法第八條第三項之規定本案經提案人說明提案止去大提討論後及議決交付審查或禁負二讀或不予審議法院會依黨團共識本案提案說明不發言大提討論不再發言法院會現有民進黨黨團提議禁負二讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
13668.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
13691.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
依黨團共識本案就近乎二讀依據立法院職權行使法第74條之一規定交付黨團協商作以下之決議交付黨團協商並由民進黨黨團負責召集協商發言會討論事項均已處理完畢上午會議進行到此為止下午 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
13693.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
13701.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
2點30分繼續開會進行專案報告並備質詢另外本次會議不處理臨時提案現在休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
21437.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
21453.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
發言會現在繼續開會進行行政院院長提出中聯有指大豆沙有事件及食安監管機制缺失檢討專案報告並被質詢首先請行政院卓院長報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
21460.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
21482.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
我們先回座好不好先回座先回座先回座我們讓各位委員這是朝野學商的結論這是朝野學商的結論院長請先回座 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
21488.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
21514.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
請先回座我們讓各委員先回座各委員先回座各委員先回座各委員先回座我們各委員先回座各委員下台各委員請先回座 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
21517.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
21535.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
左翁退校牌民進黨獨裁左翁退校牌我們各位人都請先回座我們先聽完專案報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
21577.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
21603.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
各位委員請各位委員回座我們請各位委員先回座各位委員各位委員請先回座 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
21607.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
21615.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
好 各位委員請先回座好那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
21635.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
21664.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
我處理一下我處理一下各位委員各黨團的幹部和委員請回座今天是專案報告我們依據朝野協商當初大家的共識今天我們邀請卓院長來進行專案報告所以現在現在我請各委員各黨團的幹部回到你們的座位我們讓議事可以進行好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
21667.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
21682.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
好 先請回座我們讓專案報告可以繼續進行我相信大家都想要知道行政院的報告內容我們都請先回座好不好先請回座 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
21687.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
21706.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
各位委員各位幹部各黨團的幹部和委員都請先回座請委員先回座你們都先回座各位委員你們先都回座那我請各黨團的幹部委員都先回座 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
21708.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
21730.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
都先回座 因為我們今天就是依據上禮拜的黨團協商結論我們來進行今天的專案報告所以現在我們要請行政院左院長做報告等一下 我們各黨團 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
21733.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
21761.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
各黨團我們現在請清出我們的空間讓行政院院長可以做專案報告是不是 請各黨團的幹部都將委員帶回座位各黨團的幹部都先將委員帶回座位讓我們的報告得以進行都先帶回自己的座位 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
21775.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
21784.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
我們都先把人帶回座位把標語也帶回座位我們讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
21786.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
21808.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
我們讓講台可以清出來讓專案報告可以進行我們先讓委員回到座位然後我們各黨團都一樣我們把所有的標語都先拿回自己的座位請讓這個空間可以清出來做報告好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
21809.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
21817.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
那個各黨團都一樣我們把發言台前面的標語都先拿開 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
21825.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
21851.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
把發言台前面的標語都請拿回到各黨團自己的位置上面我們讓發言台可以有一個空間讓院長來做報告好不好來 各黨團幹部請配合好不好我們讓時間可以趕快挪出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
21853.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
21865.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
這個先拿走了好不好我們各黨團請冷靜我們理性冷靜跟理性好不好好 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
21866.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
21891.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
各位黨團幹部還有各位委員拜託你們先回到座位上拿標語不要在前面這邊我讓院長可以上台來做報告待會我們有時間可以來進行質詢那因為這個時間都會佔用到各位的質詢時間我請各位能夠保持理性跟冷靜因為畢竟 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
21896.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
21924.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
畢竟這個是朝野協商的結論我們今天就依照結論來進行我們都先回到座位都先回到座位都先回到座位都先回到座位都先回到座位我們請各黨團的幹部還有委員都先回到幹部都先回到座位 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
21927.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
21951.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
好OK各位委員我們請先回到座位好那個各黨團的幹部還有委員都請回到座位都請回到座位 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
21969.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
21991.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
我們依照朝野協商的結論來進行如果大家對朝野協商的結論有意見那也必須再來重談一次所以各位委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
21993.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
22010.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
各位啊,好,回座,來,都請回座,都請回座,都請回座各黨團都請回座我們好,現在這邊回座了沒來,好,那各黨團都回座了 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
22016.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
22033.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
八號院會現在我們繼續開會進行行政院院長提出中聯油脂大豆沙拉油事件及食安監管機制缺失檢討專案報告並備質詢首先請行政院左院長報告院長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
22048.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
22072.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
我們各位委員請到請到座位請會場保持宿敬我們讓院長可以報告院長請韓院長江副院長各位委員先進謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
22073.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
22084.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
今天行政院應邀致大院就中聯郵指大豆沙拉油事件及食安監管機制缺失檢討進行專案報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
22088.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
22115.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
經過剛剛大家的表達意見終於能按照朝野協商的結果讓我能夠站在這裡這也是我對立法院的尊重我希望這個報告大家能夠仔細的來推敲每一個內容因為會讓大家知道政府如何在因應面對這一次的油品的事件食安問題攸關國人健康產業發展以及消費者的權益 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
22116.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
22138.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
政府的責任責無旁貸行政院秉持健康優先以最嚴謹的態度來面對每一起食安的事件不會因為事件規模的大小而有所鬆懈更不會容許任何違法行為危害國人的健康 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
22141.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
22157.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
針對中聯油子股份有限公司大豆沙拉油事件行政院各部會都秉持著該查就查該罰就罰該公佈就公佈該下架就下架的原則跟依法行政秉持著五項 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
22158.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
22183.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
方向方面是一食安安全食安的優先徹查形式不法消費者權益的保障後市場供需的穩定以及啟動食安法的修法這五個面向分別來進行首先是我們採取了全面性預防性的下降因為食安不容妥協 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
22185.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
22208.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
中央與地方接獲通報之後 我們立即就展開了應變的措施本案衛福部食藥署是在6月30日接獲中聯通報4月4日所生產的大豆沙拉油檢出本扁比超出法定限量的超標標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
22211.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
22233.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
隔天7月1號就立刻協同台中市政府進行查核並要求中聯停止製造跟販售6月30接獲通報7月1號協同台中市政府要求中聯停止製造跟販售另外食藥署7月2號 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
22235.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
22253.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
立刻依照食品違規案件下架回收封存銷毀階層的處理原則這是在2017年訂定的原則立刻責成各地方政府要監督其所屬第一層下游廠商 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
22254.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
22278.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
就是福茂 福壽 泰山這三家應該在7月3號的中午12時完全的下架完全的下架 第一程廠商各位知道這是7月3號12時一定要下架7月3號下午5點鐘我把衛福部找過來再次跟他們確認 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
22280.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
22302.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
衛福部的立場是依照2017年的食品違規案件產品下架回收銷毀階層的處理原則只能處理到第一層而且7月3號的中午已經下架我們是在7月3號的5點鐘請衛福部食藥署來經過討論之後當時依照這個處理原則沒有辦法下架第二層 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
22310.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
22332.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
因此在當場我告訴衛福部再考慮一下第二層如何處理不能下架能不能公告因此衛福部提出隔天召開專家會議7月4號專家會議能不能擴大來適用或是擴大來修正這樣的處理原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
22333.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
22359.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
所以外界誤會了大家也誤會了委員我誤會了沒有人要輕放這個行為沒有人認為第一層下架是不對的沒有人要把它縮減反倒我們是要把它擴大加嚴去處理所以要再考慮是這個意思因此第二天7月4號專家會議召開訂出了20%的含油的比例成分 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
22361.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
22388.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
達到了標準以上就可以進行下架它是擴大了2017年的那個處理原則讓它加嚴處理所以這一部分我請委員要聽清楚聽清楚不聽清楚等一下可以再問我可以再講是要聽清楚那7月2號就包括了包括這個違規的處理原則就沒有辦法下架到第二層 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
22390.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
22406.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
7月4號專家會議開了定了20%的規定之後7月5號公布了360家的廠商第三層的廠商公布了360家而要求7月6號就401件的產品也要進行下架 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
22407.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
22429.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
所以是比原來的2017年的標準還要嚴格的處分也就是說因為這個專家會議提出了科學的根據衛福部改變了2017年原來的做法讓他屈原去做處理這是行政院的態度因此沒有任何所謂的蓋牌沒有任何所謂的放鬆我們只有屈原的來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
22431.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
22441.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
然而到了7月7日我們再度獲得泰山公司所查報的第二批5月12號的大豆沙拉油又超標了 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
22442.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
22471.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
至此我們認為這恐非單一事件恐非單一事件一個經過比對之後發現在送驗的中聯留存的這一整批所有的四五六月份的郵品當中它的樣本有出現驗出結果不一致的結果秉持了食安第一優先毫無妥協空間的原則面對食安問題我們寧可多做一份保險因此 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
22473.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
22489.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
7月9日行政院院會決定中年4月到6月生產的相關油品及其製成的產品必須在7月10日中午12時完成全面性的預防性下架 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
22490.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
22508.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
這是7月9號院會作出的決定這個預防性價價要等待檢驗合格或者他出具合格的證明文件之後再經主管機關同意方得考慮討論上架販售的可能性然而 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
22509.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
22521.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
7月9日的晚間食藥署再次接獲南橋公司來通報5月10日中聯的油品製造的大豆油又驗出超標 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
22523.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
22547.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
5月12日傍晚又收到福壽公司的通報有兩批分別是4月6號跟4月10號的兩批郵品又分別超標至此一共有5批中聯的郵品到現在一共有5批連續性的通報出來所以中聯所產生的共計5批的郵品都完全驗出超標 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
22549.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
22568.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
由這裡可判斷中聯公司自由過程是不是存在重大的瑕疵由以上通報的時間我們再做一個回溯的報告南橋是5月13日通報給中聯中聯一直到6月10日 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
22572.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
22597.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
南橋是在5月13日發現他的油品有問題他到6月10日才通報給他的上游福壽福壽是在6月11日才通報給中聯中聯竟然遲延到6月30日才通報給台中市政府地方主管機關這當中明顯出現了刻意延遲通報的重大瑕疵 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
22599.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
22621.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
所以不僅是惡意的隱匿而且數量虛報程序上有所延誤這是這個企業對社會責任的重大失職明顯違反了食安法當中第7條第15條的規定食藥署於是在7月7日處以中聯公司1億6520萬的罰款 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
22626.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
22650.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
根據中午所得到的消息 中聯已經繳清了這筆罰款那麼其餘通報持驗的責任也分別由台北市政府處以南橋三百萬元罰款台中市政府處以中聯三百萬元罰款福壽九百萬 福茂三百萬的罰款彰化縣政府也處以泰山六百萬元的罰款 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
22651.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
22678.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
這都是中央跟地方在這幾天當中依照食安法由中央地方各盡其責出於業者重大的滑反事件發生之後石耀寺秉持的新聞發布記者會以及官方網站的各項方式最外說明事件處理的態度產品流向下架回收的情形抽驗結果以及後續管理措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
22679.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
22706.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
回應社會關切的事項並且在食藥署官網首頁建置了中聯油脂專案專區更新受影響的廠商名單業者資訊下架回收的進度抽驗的結果以及退換獲得資訊等等一直到7月13日中聯5批的批次檢驗都分別的超標 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
22708.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
22717.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
至此為止已經回收的油品有1641噸左右1641噸總數大概有5700噸回收的有1641噸同時針對861所學校334所幼兒園也全數停止使用全面預防性下降 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
22736.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
22752.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
各位委員先進中年4月到6月所產生的29批的油品當中有5批驗出超標有3批經過核查驗目前沒有發現超標另外還有21批 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
22754.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
22783.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
還沒有辦法驗從昨天開始我已經要求食藥署一週內完成21批的檢驗必須確認中聯4月到6月除了那5批超標的油品之外還有沒有超標的油品還有沒有超標的油品我們希望驗出來的結果讓大家安心但是一旦驗出超標對中聯以及所屬相關的行為我們必須再施以更清楚的法則 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
22786.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
22807.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
我要感謝特別許多的中下游的廠商全面配合政府的政策我們採取了擴大的預防性下架而預防性下架的產品未來未來我們會分分源分項逐批確認上下游核對這三個原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
22809.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
22824.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
經過食藥署跟第三方認證 驗證機構來檢驗合格之後經主管機關同意來使得恢復上架這是未來的工作我們必須驗完之後才能來決定是不是全數合規 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
22826.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
22851.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
要不要經過主管機關的同意要不要再來恢復上架政府也會公布合格廠商的白名單讓他取得社會的信賴供消費者參考也建立他品牌及廠商的信心恢復我們整個消費市場的秩序行政責任必須追究行事責任也不能放過任何蓄意隱匿 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
22853.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
22882.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
規避監管危害食安的行為必須依法就辦絕不寬待行政院已經責成法務部並請台灣高等檢察署成立了啟動了查緝民生犯罪聯繫平台督導各地方檢察署與警調聯及衛生單位橫向聯席隨時的應處那台高檢也指揮台中地檢署 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
22884.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
22907.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
指揮法務部調查局台中市調處行業調查處台中市政府警察局刑事大隊內政部警政署保安警察第四總隊會同衛生福利部食品藥物管理署台中市食品藥物安全署及彰化縣衛生局在六個處所 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
22908.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
22931.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
全面展開搜索涉案的4家公司目前為止 傳喚被告11人 相關證人13人其中 中聯公司余姓總經理申請羈押進鑑雖法院命2000萬交保那麼台中地檢署也提起抗告另外11位實名被告分別50萬 1000萬到2000萬不同金額的拒保 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
22937.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
22962.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
全面防堵問題有品的追究不法的行者我現在也已經要求檢調單位積極調查釐清不法情勢找出他的原因並且做證據以及犯罪所得財產的保全對於危害民眾食安及公共利益的行為絕對依法來嚴查速辦消費者的權益如何來保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
22963.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
22979.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
政府更是責無旁貸為妥善解決消費爭議行政院也啟動重寬退貨團體訴訟雙軌並行的保障機制行政院消保處建立了中聯大豆沙拉油事件案的專區 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
22981.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
23008.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
整合政府公告退換貨的資訊線上申訴的管道等等協調各通路業者秉持從寬從優從速從簡的原則來辦理退換貨的作業消費者只要持發票購買證明刷卡記錄或其他足以證明購買的憑證或者是購買的商品或者使用後的空瓶都可以依規定辦理退貨 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
23010.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
23030.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
行政院消保處也協調各地方政府督促狹內業者建立明確的退換貨的窗口整合相關機關的官網資訊確保民眾能夠在最新的資訊得到的情況之下能夠方便退換貨的這個問題讓他能夠得到消費者權利的保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
23032.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
23057.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
另外行政院消保處也協助媒合消費者保護團體未來可以提起團體訴訟至於訴訟相關的費用依照食安法的規定由衛福部食品安全保護基金來支應同時行政院消保處也督導地方的消保官主動來協助民眾處理消費者爭議的申訴 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
23061.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
23085.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
然而為了降低整個案子對民生物資供應以及食品產業的影響行政院也責成經濟部跟農業部繼續清除掌握國內食用油及相關原物料供需情形密切注意市場供應及價格的變化全力來維持民生物質的穩定 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
23086.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
23113.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
油品部分感謝國內主要石油石用油脂精煉廠石油油脂的精煉廠國內的這個大廠都表示能夠來配合調整生產的數量來提供的整體規劃而且整體市場供應在短期內尚屬穩定我們會繼續的觀察來保障民生用油的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
23114.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
23137.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
而飼料的部分 農業部積極與飼料業者 畜牧業者來協調從調整原料到替代方案等等維持國內飼料的供應經濟部跟農業部會密切合作透過協調調度 供應調節以及找尋替代的方案等措施來降低整個案子對市場供應的影響確保國內市場的穩定 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
23141.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
23170.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
其次我們必須啟動食安法的修訂這次事件暴露出來我們在現行制度上源頭的原料管理製程的管理通報的異常品質的管控以及資訊的串聯等等都有相當大的一個死角行政院則無旁貸責成衛福部啟動食安法以及相關管理規範的修訂跟修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
23172.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
23192.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
全面檢視現行的制度並且在一週內提出相關執法的修訂也一週內提出食安法修法的草案在這裡我特別強調五個強化跟五個增訂第一個強化是我們要強化源頭的管理這次案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
23193.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
23209.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
或許它是發生在國外這個進口黃豆乾燥時候的管控不佳或許它是發生在中聯在自由經驗過程中欠缺嚴密的監控但無論如何同一批的黃豆 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
23210.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
23235.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
進來了中聯公司不同時間批次的製作其中五批有問題其他的目前印出一部分沒有問題其他還在驗如果同一批的黃豆解驗出來有一部分有問題有一部分沒問題那製造的過程應該列為我們重要未來行政跟司法調查的重要的一個關口 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
23236.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
23262.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
因此我們要強化源頭檢驗跟收售的這個標準對使用的原料 半成品 逐批要來進行檢驗這是未來要強化並且要要求業者完全必要留存樣本供主管機關來查核落實從根本來提升原物料品質的管理有效降低後續生產的一些任何風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
23264.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
23280.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
第二項強化是製程的管理我們要求高風險食品業者對原料的來源配方製程有所改變的時候要建立試製的程序要試著做做看你的原料的來源 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
23282.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
23308.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
配方以及你製程改變的時候必須試做必須試製的程序要全面的建立訂定自製管制方法的基準並且落實執行而且要留存相關作業的監測紀錄樣本要精確忠實的留存確保符合食安各項品質的要求第三個強化是強化異常通報的系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
23309.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
23319.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
的改進檢討我們要修正食品安全異常通報的制度明確規範食品安全事件的通報要件通報時程 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
23321.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
23343.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
要將業者食言通報、隱匿不通報或通報不確實的滑反要上限要提高以對大型企業產生實質的法律威懾的力量至於依法在期限內主動通報而且配合主管機關調查的這些業者 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
23344.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
23367.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
會將它列為未來行政處分的參考因素鼓勵業者落實自主通報及及時處理食安事件的標準行為第四個強化是強化品質管理這當中我們有三級評管第一級是廠商自主的檢驗第二級是透過第三方 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
23368.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
23396.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
第三方的認證機關的驗證第三級是後市場的稽查在一級品管的自主檢驗當中對高風險食品我們要採取更趨嚴的嚴謹的管理措施我要增訂業者自主檢驗頻率要增加自主檢驗的頻率要增加從上游廠商目前自主檢驗頻率每半年一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
23397.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
23412.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
每半年一次顯然不夠我們已經要求要逐批來做檢驗上游廠商就是這幾家精煉油的大廠上游廠商過去都是半年自主檢驗一次我們現在要求逐批來檢驗逐批檢驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
23415.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
23439.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
至於第一層的廠商就是泰山福壽福茂這些第一層的廠商他目前也是半年自主檢驗一次我們也認為不夠未來要求他每一季都要來檢驗一次半年提升到每一季最上面的半年提升到每一批進貨都要檢驗第一層的由半年提升到每一季都要進行檢驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
23440.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
23464.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
同時第二項增訂是增訂一定規模以上的製造業者要自己設置實驗室而且這個實驗室要經過主管機關的認證這是第二個增設那第三個增設是實驗室的管理跟他即時通報的義務要建立起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
23465.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
23483.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
一旦發現有異狀必須在最短的時間內24小時通報給主管機關不能像這次一樣只通報給他的上級上層的供應商或是油廠那麼他可以無限期來延誤所以未來這個都會被新增訂的制度來規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
23486.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
23498.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
至於第二級的評管就是建立第三方驗證機構的通報機制第三方驗證機構通報機制它未來不會只查核業者食品安全管制系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
23500.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
23523.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
去查核而已他會實際上來認定他是不是有實際執行的情形跟產生出有效的效果來具備穩定的風險控管的能力因此我們會增訂第三方驗證機關通報的機制強化要求他主動通報的法定義務必須在一定的時間通報給主管機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
23525.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
23547.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
而且第一級跟第二級的驗證結果與主管機關的後市場雜貨機制才能夠及時的來串接至於第三級品管就是後市場集合這個部分主管機關執行後市場稽查除以食品風險加強後市場抽驗我們要增訂的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
23549.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
23576.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
茶廠的頻率茶廠的頻率基本上茶廠都是在地方政府茶廠的頻率要增加而且要增加對原料的抽驗因此對高風高風險的業者要定期跟不定期的突襲性的稽查機制要建立起來化被動監管為主動的防禦才能夠杜絕不肖業者的隱密空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
23578.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
23596.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
另外一項我們要繼續強化的是數位管理現在我們已經有食品雲但食品雲的功能機制是否完整我們再度的檢討從自主檢驗 第三方驗證 政府抽驗異常通報 產品流向等等來做全面的查處 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
23597.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
23626.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
我要求從事後查處走向事前的防禦從事後的查處走向事前的防禦繼續精進資訊系統推動檢驗資料的電子化將異常資訊的勾結跟風險分析的機制全面的串接起來即將這麼做就是為了要完善產品流向追溯追蹤的制度以利於追查應變整個提升風險管理的能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
23627.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
23639.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
各位委員先進全體的國人同胞食安沒有妥協食安沒有終點政府的責任不會只停留在對單一事件的追究 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
23641.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
23665.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
行政院各部會要持續跟地方政府充分合作從守護食安到保障消費者從徹查不法到依法究責從穩定市場供應到恢復市場秩序從全面檢視食品安全管理制度逐項落實改革的措施來提升食品安全治理的能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
23666.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
23694.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
行政院會以最嚴謹的態度最積極的行動最公開的資訊最完整的制度改革守護每一位國人的餐桌安全讓制度一次一次的更完善讓人民的每一餐都能夠吃得安心每一天都更有信心食安事件造成國人的不安造成下游業者的焦慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
23695.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
23704.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
也造成社會秩序安全上的威脅中央地方各級政府必定會共同嚴謹積極的來因應 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
23707.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
23734.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
我也對這樣的事件的發生結果到今天雖然每一天我們都有實際的作為在因應它但到底讓大家不安讓產業焦慮我還是深感遺憾我們會深切的自我檢討跟反省讓這個機制早日完善的建立起來彌補過去的不足所以無論是源頭的管理製程的管理通報的系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
23736.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
23761.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
以及最後食安法的修訂讓它法治的完備我們會在最短的時間內提出完整的一個結果同時檢調單位會全力追究行政責任我們共同努力行政立法兩院共同努力中央地方政府共同努力來重新建立人民對食品安全的信心好 謝謝卓院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
23766.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
23780.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
法院會現在在議場二樓旁聽席的是台大政治營的同學我們歡迎他們到立法院來同時還有新竹縣政府教育局青少年職涯探索計畫的訪問團、參訪團在這邊歡迎他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
23790.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
23799.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
現在進行委員質詢每位委員詢答時間不超過十分鐘輪到質詢委員如果不在場是為棄權首先請陳委員召之質詢謝謝主席有請卓院長卓院長請備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
23828.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
23834.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
這位好院長午安院長我想請教您什麼叫做一級致癌物 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
23836.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
23860.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
這是我們在這次的郵事件當中本PAP所產生出來的吃到身體裡面當然對人體的健康產生致癌的可能性沒關係讓我告訴您根據國際癌症研究機構的致癌物的分類系統就是所謂的第一級致癌物它就是確定會在人體引起癌症而且這個證據是充分到可以證明致癌性 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
23861.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
23890.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
這一次我們油品爆發了本田皮它的超標這個成分正是一級致癌物很遺憾兩年前賴總統才剛上任的時候因為他談到健康台灣談到要把國人的癌症死亡率降低三分之一沒想到現在出現了大油廠大油商為全國人民為人民致癌油我想這真的是個大諷刺 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
23891.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
23911.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
院長中原油脂生產的沙拉油出現本田皮超標那我想剛剛您報告了很多但是我想再了解一次這一次這一回究竟是從巴西進口的這個大豆出了問題還是中原的製程出問題請問行政院這一回釐清了沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
23912.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
23926.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
一開始我們都認為原料跟製程都必須在經過行政調查以及未來的司法調查所以你要知道現在有品這個中聯的廠商他既然會刻意的延誤通報隱匿實行 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
23928.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
23944.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
但我們現在只有行政調查問當然不一定問得出來實情必須經過司法院司法調查我覺得行政調查真的是要加油院長請你看一下這個資料2024年1月到11月進口了基因改造大豆蔥巴西 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
23946.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
23958.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
150萬8公噸然後去年3月到9月進口了將近88萬公噸那今年2月到6月已經進口了70萬公噸我先請教院長您知道1公噸是幾公斤嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
23960.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
23985.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
一千公斤所以這三年來我們大概已經進了三十億公斤的這個大豆那這當然表示這個海關進出口的這個統計啦那中聯說他們是因為產季這個生產季節的關係真的嗎那我覺得這是推卸之詞啦反正簡單的說哪裡便宜哪裡買嘛根據這個季節第一季跟第四季都會從美國進口多 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
23987.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
24003.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
第二季跟第三季都會從八季進來的事實上我們計算了剛剛已經報告您了以這三年來進來了30億公斤那假如是進口原料有問題的話那我想請教廠商驗收的時候以及準備加工的時候需不需要做檢驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
24004.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
24027.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
這就是未來要強化的地方 只有都是廠商自主檢驗我覺得公權力應該要下放到這裡去那如果是製程出問題 一個是原料 一個是製程嘛那剛剛您報告很多 但是那之前沒有驗出來是事實嘛他第一次說他沒有問題嘛 那究竟是真的沒有問題呢還是他一次再驗 一次再驗驗到沒有問題為止才把那份報告交出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
24028.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
24052.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
根據7月7號左右中聯自己驗的那一批來看他認為自己都沒有問題是不是7號我們認為他的樣本有問題政審部長來說明一下我稍後會再談檢驗問題這個問題非常多跟委員簡單說明一下其實我們在7月6號就進入到這個中聯的油廠把他過去逐批留下來的這個樣本我們都拿去驗驗完之後才發現呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
24053.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
24080.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
他的報告都是正常但是下游的商品卻回報所以這個就是我們講的這個因為不一致的關係所以這一次環節在哪裡還是找不到嘛還沒有釐清嘛這是事實目前還沒有釐清因為他的資料我們懷疑有這個沒有辦法佐證所以就很難直接去point說是哪一個點出了問題不過也跟委員報告在這整個過程當中當然有委員有一些專家給我們一些意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
24081.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
24099.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
請教一下院長謝謝部長衛福部因為他從7月1號開始就我認為就違反了食安法第15條院長他只公布了1300公噸的內批油中米的內批油但是那時候不公布下游受影響廠商的再加工品跟混製油我跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
24100.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
24122.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
院長另一下什麼叫食安法它的核心法條第15條第15條這意思是說凡是食品或是食品添加物只要有以上死款情形他就不能再做往後的工作加工調製販賣包裝輸入等等都不能再做了那麼其中第三項就是含有毒物質或是含對人體健康有危害的物質 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
24122.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
24147.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
所以事實上一開始只公布上流第一層的時候就違反了食安法第15條那上週石部長也親口證實了剛剛您有做了一部分說明但是我還是要弄清楚他3號向院長報告那對於這個產品下架的時候院長您指示了再考慮看看那這個指示我覺得造成處理的延宕也導致衛福部做出了天下大亂的下架標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
24151.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
24175.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
7月3號下午5點鐘我們在開會那時候第一層已經下架了我要求的再檢討是第二層還是違反治安法因為一層一層都因為這次是當時衛福部的決定是第二層依照這個處理原則第二層不能下架我是要他再考慮如何處理第二層下架先公告再下架所以意思是說部長說你那天在諮詢會委員你們沒有面對我你們搞的什麼20%含量根本就胡來 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
24180.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
24197.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
這就是湖南天下大亂的一個你們自己找的標準事發時其實我立刻發出聲明而且我在委員會執行的時候我也強調說你處理第一層就是違反食安品第15條這個非常清楚那你們公布你看這個數字你們從公布你們慢慢很猶豫1300公噸到2600公噸 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
24200.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
24215.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
後來變成27萬公噸又改成2.7萬公噸反正數字一變再變那剛剛院長也報告了事實我們也知道了南橋再度另外一批這回不知道又是多少萬公噸所以我必須請問院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
24217.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
24233.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
當這個衛福部對下架產品他那個再考慮看看不管是您說您沒有指示還是說這個衛福部部長本來是只有專責專長他做這個決定是要考慮什麼大家在考慮什麼是考慮政府的收拾善後能力嗎在考慮什麼呢2017年食品 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
24237.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
24252.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
下架回收封存銷毀的處理原則處理原則這是有第一層第二層這是根據食安法定的處理原則第一層什麼樣的程度下架到第二層什麼樣的程度下架到第一層 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
24253.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
24279.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
這邊有幾個問題他們沒有完全的面對所以我要請教您那根據媒體報導剛剛您也稍微提到中聯郵局在4月8號到10號他三天出產了這個生產了出貨1300公噸那給他的大股東福茂、福壽跟泰山為什麼13日他才去做SGS檢驗請問食用有時屬於高風險的食品為什麼可以先出貨再檢驗您同意嗎?您假裝說您同意嗎?先出貨再檢驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
24280.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
24290.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
可以嗎?可以這樣做嗎?跟委員說明我們現在的要求上當然他要有近期的檢驗事實上他是先出國再檢驗他是不對的所以未來我們已經現在做改變4月22號他的檢驗值是1.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
24296.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
24319.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
但是這個在經過南橋提出這個事件以後他後來檢驗他先送到中年先送到這個IG位是兩倍超標後來他又回到原始的SGS是四倍超標那我現在問同樣一批你剛剛提到流樣我假設說你懂什麼叫流樣就原始的流樣為什麼同一批樣品你會沒有是合格的然後變成兩倍超標四倍超標發生了什麼事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
24319.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
24339.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
跟委員說明他們所使用的檢體不同第一個發現的是南橋那南橋是從他的戰略的量度裡面去檢測那是我的專長 同一批東西檢驗結果不合格檢驗都不合格 或是說OK的然後兩倍超標 四倍超標所以我想問 這個檢驗到底是取樣有問題還是檢測有問題 或是更嚴重的 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
24345.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
24371.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
SGS是不是一直配合廠商一直做檢驗一直做檢驗做到合格的時候才公布出來才把那個報告提出來他不斷的做啊不合格了他就隱瞞啊合格的時候才提告出來啊院長這個問題非常的嚴重我們這個實驗室有經過認證然後我們有做過比對那基本上他的檢驗是一致性是高的所以這兩個檢驗機構是OK部長你今天本來我是要請教院長的 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
24373.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
24396.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
因為這次的重點我覺得是檢驗檢驗出了什麼問題食用署所有三道把關他說有自行檢驗、自主檢驗、委外還有抽驗現在前兩道都破功了所以今天才會害我們所有國人包括你跟我我們整個都陷在這個癌食油的風暴裡面如果下游廠商自己做檢驗已經變成一個弊端了就是上下游 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
24397.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
24419.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
要介入啊 政府機關要介入啊請問我再強調一次我再問清楚您可不可以逐批檢驗逐批檢驗對不對對 就是出遊的時候上遊第一層的逐批你要到每一個廠房去包括它這個進口還有它加工的時候都要逐批檢驗可以嗎對 可以我們就是往這個方向去修改 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
24419.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
24434.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
反正毒蘋果,對不起這個馬鈴薯嘛,出來你也可以科科檢驗嘛這個油品不是叫你一滴一滴檢驗我們叫你一批一批檢驗,油品是非常均勻,沒有取樣的問題所以可以毒批檢驗好,謝謝謝謝陳委員,謝謝卓院長下一位請陳培餘委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
24455.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
24459.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
好 謝謝主席 有請卓院長好 請卓院長背景 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
24467.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
24493.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
陳委員好好 院長我這一題沒有要問你但是我要先跟主席抗議我也要跟國民黨團還有民眾黨團抗議我手上這一張是7月9號上個禮拜四下午4點立法院黨團協商的結論結論是說呢各黨團同意在7月14號禮拜二下午邀請行政院院長率同相關部會首長列席提出中聯油脂大豆沙拉油事件及食安監管機制的檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
24495.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
24514.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
專案報告並被質詢當時主持協商會議的是韓國瑜院長更可笑的是呢那一天在協商的時候禮拜四的下午其實大家就已經知道禮拜五會有颱風而且各地都在做防颱準備但可笑的民眾黨的委員陳青龍委員甚至還要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
24515.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
24544.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
做出非常無理荒謬可笑的要求說要叫行政院隔天禮拜五就來報告還好韓國瑜院長那天是清醒的他還提醒民眾黨團說人家要做防排所以看起來民眾黨是急著作秀所以剛剛卓院長要上台的時候國民黨團跟民眾黨團一起組黨不讓卓院長來報告我真的不知道口口聲聲喊著關心食安的是你們民眾黨跟國民黨但是來到了立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
24546.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
24573.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
議會現場組黨院長上台報告的也是你民眾黨跟國民黨我就問卓院長請問所有相關部會首長面對我手上這份專案報告大家是不是都秉持著要來解決問題要向國人報告要共同保障食安並且願意公開資訊所有的資訊都希望向國人報告我手上這份說得非常清清楚楚我相信各位媒體朋友手上也都會有電子檔 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
24573.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
24602.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
但很可惜我們看到的是在野黨的黨團不讓卓院長上台報告我還是要佔用我個人一點點質詢的時間對這件事情表達遺憾並且表達相當難過原來你們民眾黨急是急著要政治作秀急著想要收割急著想要羞辱卓院長還有相關行政團隊但民進黨團一向以來的態度跟行政院態度非常清楚我們希望的是來解決問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
24604.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
24622.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
我們希望的是釐清真相我們希望的是保障國人的食安我不知道國民黨跟民眾黨在袒護誰難道是要袒護盧秀燕市長嗎袒護那個中國的通緝犯嗎袒護相關業者嗎到底害怕多少資訊被公開透明所以決定要 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
24622.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
24634.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
炒作的方法 作秀的方法不讓卓院長上台的方法 杯葛的方法我要再次的公開譴責民眾黨的委員 還有國民黨的委員以上也要跟主席表達民進黨團的抗議 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
24640.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
24661.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
我來到這裡報告是要說明真相的但是無論如何剛剛能夠讓我有充分的時間把真相說明清楚我還是感謝大院這樣的安排其次上禮拜五我用文字感謝韓院長對疫事的安排讓我有時間能夠充分的去看看各地風災的狀況這樣的疫事安排我想是有助於人民對政府的信心的 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
24661.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
24685.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
所以院長你在忙完風災的勘察之後呢其實我相信週末所有的部會都在加班為了準備今天的專案報告除了準備今天的專案報告同時也在進行為國人食安把關這件事情所以我想我的時間所剩不多我就簡單就幾個議題跟院長討論也希望藉由院長的回覆向國人報告第一個我們現在看到目前其實中聯的總經理 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
24687.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
24708.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
呃余總經理他自己已經認罪了我要強調是他已經認罪為什麼要認罪呢因為他們其實在四月呃五月中的時候就已經驗出相關資料是有異常的可是他們卻拖到六月底或是七月初才進行通報目前我們看到台中地檢也已經進行抗告關於這個交保的部分可是我要說 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
24708.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
24719.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
也因為業者的隱匿這件事情導致於國人目前出現這個問題我現在不確定我們司法偵查這邊進度到哪邊可不可以請法務部向國人報告一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
24722.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
24744.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
這部分台中地檢署在7月2日就開專案的一個會議3日就直接到四岸的中聯等公司去調集資料並約談中聯的余董總經理及相關的一個證人9號是實行搜索有查扣了相關的一些的機具另外有約談 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
24746.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
24773.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
那個10個被告跟13位證人那當然這些約談的這些被告中有有10人是交保是50萬到2000萬不等的金額另外涉嫌最重大的就是餘總經理中年的餘總經理這一部分我們是申請羈押那當然是法院這次裁定是交保因為說他已經認罪了但是我們這邊是因為還有相關的事情還要調查我們認為還有郭篡證人之餘所以我們提起看告了 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
24773.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
24795.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
好,那我相信國人都非常期待看到抗告的結果,也拜託法務部這邊持續跟國人報告。對,但是我要說很遺憾的是,目前為止我們沒有看到任何一個廠商的代表出來向國人道歉,因為明明是他們自己也發現了自己的產品是有問題的,但是他們卻隱匿不報這件事情,我也覺得非常的遺憾。但是要先謝謝法務部的說明。 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
24795.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
24813.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
再來我要說在這一陣子非常多混亂的新聞當中院長我觀察到另外一個我覺得有點擔心的困境其實食安法裡面寫的相關的清楚規定包含中央該做哪些事情地方該做哪些事情也就是食安這件事情從來都不是只有中央的責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
24814.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
24827.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
地方主管機關在第一線的現場本來就有一些責任跟義務要承擔這個部分我可不可以請院長說明一下到底我們在食安法的規定如果以這一次為例到底中央跟地方職責的分工狀況應該會是什麼樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
24830.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
24856.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
根據食安法的種種規定其實是它有這樣的精神食安法第二條直轄市政府及縣政府是地方主管機關中央當然是衛福部是主管機關不過所謂地方主管機關主要的職責是站在第一線執行非法食品的稽查跟裁員法 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
24857.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
24882.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
這個就是很清楚他必須站在第一線他能夠做的事情去現場查核跟抽樣檢驗依食安法第41條他應該進到食品工廠餐廳通路賣場夜市攤販等等進行現場的查核那到底這個進到工廠的查核有沒有做到我認為未來也是行政跟司法在調查的一項重要的依據 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
24883.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
24902.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
太好了院長這就是我一直想問的目前我們看到非常多的媒體有惡意扭曲的報導都把所有的問題責任丟到中央但是我剛剛在看院長你的專案報告書面資料裡面就說7月1號呢食藥署接獲相關的報告之後立刻在7月1號就協同台中市政府進行查核 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
24903.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
24931.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
也就是說中央的食藥署已經做了該做的事情但是在那之前在平常每一個人的生活日常如果地方主管機關他不去做稽查他不去做抽查甚至明明在他所在縣市裡面這些大公司他也置之不理甚至他不認為這是他的責任我認為這是這一次最大的問題如果很多地方政府覺得他可以不負責任他可以丟包給行政院丟包給衛福部我覺得這是一個非常可怕的行政官僚的心態 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
24931.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
24953.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
那當然我覺得就院長剛剛你的說明非常清楚未來在修法的時候我們如何在中央跟地方的分工說得更清楚當然地方政府不論是哪一個政黨的縣市首長執政他都必須第一線在第一線照顧人民的食安我相信這才是更重要的但是如同剛剛陳昭斯委員也問了但是很可惜沒有讓院長說清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
24954.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
24975.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
有相關的媒體報導說在7月3號的時候呢院長找了相關部會開會而衛福部長石崇良坦承當時向院長報告醫院則僅下架第一層院用而有品而院長只是應該再考慮我當時在讀這個報導的時候我有我自己的解讀我可不可以請院長我們給時間讓院長好好說明一下當時到底發生了什麼事情到底是什麼意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
24977.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
24999.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
要不要由石部長先說好來石部長跟委員說明就陳儒張剛在院長的報告裡面提到我們在過去的油品事件之後就訂了一個違規食品事件那麼他的這些下架銷毀的階層的處理原則就是什麼樣的樣態一共分成十類那什麼樣的樣態呢是第一層要下架 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
24999.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
25016.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
第二層也要下架比如說你是外加了毒物不該參有像前一次它是把這個2014年的這個油品的事件呢它是把非食用油加入到油品裡面那這個呢就通通都要下架第一層第二層通通都要下架 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
25016.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
25029.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
那麼另外有的是違反這個食品安全標準這個是歸類在第八類第八類的話是第一層下架第二層沒有下架所以當時候是訂出了在那個油品事件之後訂出了這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
25032.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
25047.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
這個階層的下架原則所以我們在事件發生的第一刻7月1號確認7月2號就發布7月3號呢中午之前就要把第一層依照這個處置原則第一層就已經下架完那之後呢那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
25048.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
25072.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
院長召見我們來跟他報告這整個的處理情形之後院長也提到是不是應該要再考慮這樣的下架是不是民眾能夠安心需不需要再考慮什麼當然我們就回去再研究包含說要不要修訂原本的下架原則召集專家會議才有後續的 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
25092.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
25095.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
好 好 謝謝 謝謝陳委員謝謝卓院長 下一位請謝龍介委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
25133.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
25137.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
謝謝,我要請到議長好,請左院長備詢謝偉豪議長你好,勇敢面對,勇敢面對屬實的,我屬實給大家報告事情發生,總統兩派太多情策,你都沒法應 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
25162.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
25191.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
你的團隊 卡車萬噸到今天你來報告 要給三五地方總之是離空一四年 槍冠鼠驚在屏東發生的 破了我們做館長大家也要求 行政委員會要負責要求部長要負責現在要求什麼地方 你要查不查 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
25192.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
25198.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
專攻的人民就是看著你們這種態度我沒有信心你剛才報告肅平百運但是怎樣我再正式請教你一遍你說中聯有出發錢6520萬你說他已經交了對不對剛才我聽到消息說他交清 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
25221.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
25231.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
你實在是真正你說不算比較標榮?矯情不是標榮做不到事情法治矯情應該怎麼講?應該矯情啊但是這樣我怎麼有這個意思公權力公權力要他講他就是一定要講 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
25241.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
25251.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
這個人不知道一定要繳啊就是繳了啊跑得了和尚跑不了廟啊後續還有司法的調查我當時就給他淘汰了我說他刻意隱匿延遲報告我當時就給他淘汰了 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
25258.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
25285.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
你不給我 我說你等你到處看你的報告啦 我在這裡 我不想跟你爭我講的矯正代表公權力有執行下去你拿起來看你對我的報告是怎麼說的公權力有執行 聽聽我看你的阿哥在那邊碰到 好喔 他一年六千幾萬交了啦這是公權力執行的結果 我的公權力表彰 真是大驕傲 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
25288.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
25294.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
這招不輕的啦已經在處理啊什麼 你給阿伯就是給阿伯他們交親啊所以現在是怎樣給阿伯他們交親啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
25301.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
25311.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
啊如果虛晃一招他就要交親 虛晃一招你現在想什麼 你們蘇貞昂叫他成立就對了不蘇貞昂 公開說的 我在這裡說的 刻意延遲通報 刻意隱匿這件事 到今天你會抵押獨有給全國大家吃到人心惶惶你沒道歉我剛才有說啊你剛才有說 我有跟你聽嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
25330.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
25347.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
你說你深感遺憾 剛才說到深感遺憾我告訴你 全國的年齡單人一套 到今天你沒有一個官員把台灣人毀屍的我告訴你 深感遺憾之外 我們要深刻的檢討跟反省 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
25348.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
25372.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
你有要投票嗎?這不是什麼意思?很簡單啦因為我們要說一些有的沒的我正式在這裡你認為你有需要把台灣人為了這件事來發洩嗎?我已經將所有處理的時間給大家報告沒有啦 你有要發洩嗎?所以你到今天還沒有要投票就對了我剛才說要深入的選法跟反省你是要我現在怎麼投票? |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
25375.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
25395.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
深刻的遺憾檢討跟反省你今天是專案報告還是專案道歉我告訴你 沒關係 我沒關係報告 應該報告 報告之後是你太多 道歉的太多不出來是你太多 你一開始說我暗欠夾吃你一開始說我暗欠夾吃 你對夾吃吃好你要道歉什麼跟你說的啦你說我暗欠夾吃 你對夾吃吃好 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
25401.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
25403.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
所以你對中文的解釋有問題啦我沒有說你聽不懂 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
25417.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
25437.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
這樣好啊 我們兩個可以來一個專門比賽啊 不用 不用你今天不道歉 如果這樣 老總統兩處 該查辦就查辦 該下架就下架你們都不說 你把對比說完後 阿伯第三天才直接查辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
25438.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
25459.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
董事人已經認罪 讓台灣人吃這麼認罪 無心由甩落因為要顧及公司的經營款基金 所以把他暗欺騙起來你為了你經營款基金 你還要暗欺騙?你還要暗欺騙?市長找他 找你找三幾天 你是要我每天在他面前講話 還是去查這個事情? |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
25464.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
25480.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
你查出來 表現在外面的態度就是讓台灣人沒信心所以他一直在宅立室找他 騙你來這裡報告查出來 甘不查出來甘不查出來你們喔 如果要做認證喔我沒需要做認證我沒需要做什麼樣的認證我沒需要做什麼樣的認證慢吞吞 讓他們有機可行 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
25494.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
25495.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
阿弟弟們別這麼大聲 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
25497.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
25523.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
先打回頭 喔可以重新上架喔 哇夭壽欸這油這麼嚴重 啊現在是怎樣 夾這裡夾可以就可以上架嗎什麼要說可以啊 不可以 蛤你給我賣錢賣了在天坡白 叫他們安心的在空中串供委員 什麼有說預防性下架 你知道嗎預防性下架 我知道啊 什麼有說強制下架 你知道嗎什麼啊 你為什麼賣錢賣了 要叫他們說準備可以回家 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
25527.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
25537.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
我有說不會請賠嗎你要再看一遍嗎第二頁最下面這一行你再念一次好嗎原來委員對文字的造詣是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
25541.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
25563.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
你只會斷端取義啊所以我直接跟你解說 你也聽不下去啊我才讓你解說咧你還叫台灣人民解說啊自以為是 不用聽人解釋你現在暗股爆倒啊 空調調你就是暗股你蓋牌 不是沒原因的全面性預防下架 要等待檢驗合格 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
25564.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
25570.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
具備核對證書 主管機關統一所有的孩子吃多少下去 你知道嗎你不知道嗎 來 這個油發生的時候是美國來的 為什麼你們要在市委份放這個佔油量的標準 你知道嗎你也不知道嘛 因為那是任務部門的事情蘋果的喔 你現在黃豆說到蘋果去了嗎你也說一個蘋果 我以為你在說黃豆 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
25597.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
25603.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
你講黃豆怎麼講到四月份四月份跟黃豆無關的既然態度出來了大家 各位說過嗎我剛才報告很清楚啊你 內閣一人要改組 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
25620.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
25629.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
今天你是在問內閣改造的問題嗎?因為獨立的問題,所以你必須內閣改造!現在內閣最重要,跟這個獨立的事情改過頭啊!都讓他就對了,我還沒啦,我想說沒有啊,我們都會負責,我先負責把這個善後處理好我們是解決問題,不是在製造問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
25643.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
25658.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
所以你這一桌就對了 都沒有經過頭沒聖誕 沒冬燈 四天頂點 每天要做瓜 煉鴨子 煉鴨子燉蝦子 煮的台式 鐵 鐵粉 鐵粉 鐵粉 農村鐵粉我剛才說鐵粉你沒說鐵粉喔我剛才說鐵粉 協同台中市政府叫鐵粉嗎你們剛才兩個在對話我就很像 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
25668.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
25694.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
觀眾都有聽到啦這是法律的規定耶我再請問你一下這是法律的規定耶你對我都不懂你中文看不懂我都看不懂完全就是都在你的中庸啦你不想坐牢不想坐牢你如果不用拿到食品工廠查查就是地方的責任你如果認為你處理得很好可以對兩千三百萬人很有膽量如果這樣太多我不會反對我最後的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
25695.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
25719.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
我沒有反對我沒有反對你的態度你以為你這種態度你認為台灣人能接受啊接受你這種麻痺騙貓的說話我最後的報告你要再聽一次嗎你自己聽到深感你自己聽到深感遺憾後面你又不理我媽啦深感遺憾我後面說我們會深切的檢討跟反省為什麼你不唸出來你就是要斷章取義亂戴帽子我問你有要逃跑嗎有這麼困難嗎我深感遺憾 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
25725.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
25725.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
臣感遺憾會進行檢討跟反省好 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
25754.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
25759.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
好 我們時間到謝謝謝榮介委員 謝謝卓院長下一位請邱惠祿委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
25781.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
25787.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
有請行政院長有請石崇良部長左院長還有石部長請備詢好院長好部長好我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
25799.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
25825.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
我的簡報有個標題叫做政府失能 死安死守我還要再補一句話 人民失望為什麼人民會失望呢因為政府處理毒油的過程荒腔走板讓我們人民失望失望再失望剛剛的報告沒有改變你的問題嗎政府的失能沒有政府的失能在等一下的質詢當中我們就一一的讓它曝露出來先問第一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
25827.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
25853.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
請問應在考慮是考慮什麼你今天會不斷的被問在問之前我先鋪陳一下7月3號的時候時部長拿著一個106年的食安會議所定的下架標準去跟您請示然後你拋出了一句話叫做應在考慮請問應在考慮是考慮廠商的利益還是人民的健康剛剛我們答覆你都沒有聽 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
25853.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
25882.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
我不認同因為我聽不到我再說明一次我請石部長來是7月3號下午的5點那7月2號石部長已經按照這個處理原則7月3號中午12點下架了這個下架的原則呢網路上騙尋不到只有你們的手中有人民手中沒有下架原則立法委員手中也沒有下架原則網路上騙尋不到那沒有關係因為今天時間真的非常有限請問卓院長您所指的應在考慮是在考慮什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
25883.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
25898.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
7月3號中午12點上游廠商已經下架了所以7月3號下午的5點他已經下架了我要考慮的是第二層的這些廠商他要不要下架 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
25898.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
25912.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
那為什麼應要再考慮呢?那些不是就有獨有的風險嗎?你重視人民的健康,你連考慮就不考慮,完全全面的下降因為沒有一件事是比人民的健康還重要政府要不要依法行政? |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
25916.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
25944.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
依法行政,那你拿的下架原則只有你手上有啊我們每個人沒有拿到那份原則啊你要不要看到一百零四年我們講了那麼多天了一百零四年使用蜀座的函是只要有為安全的疑慮縱使採樣的結果沒有出來也可以下架我跟你講一百零六年的事情你跟我談一百零四年的規定當然是要只是一百零六年的就是只有你手上有我們手上完全沒有,網路上騙尋不著 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
25945.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
25971.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
一個認真的委員我們講了這麼多天了你也在查得到你查不到也要得到如果這個東西只有你手上有的話那你自己愛怎麼樣詮釋愛怎麼樣解釋都可以所以如果第二層的商品沒有如果應再考慮沒有很奇怪的話為什麼7月5號石崇良部長接受媒體的採訪會說第二層的商品沒下架我第一時間也覺得怪怪的請問一下石部長你是哪裡覺得怪怪的 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
25971.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
25986.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
跟委員說明當然當時候在經過我們的這個食品風險評估諮議會這個是很多的專家委員大家共同訂出這個處理原則為什麼第二層的商品沒有下架你說當時你的心理也覺得怪怪的這是7月5號各大媒體都有接這個標語 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
25995.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
26011.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
當時我認為啦我認為第二層的食品的樣態還是很多當然有一些他用的很少但是還是有一些部分呢他的含流量是比較高的好沒有關係因為你們如果存心狡辯我是問不到的事項的你106年的這個婚姻鎖定的下下原則真的是騙尋不早 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
26015.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
26035.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
完全騙尋不著終於呢終於呢我們在7月13有看到這個會議記錄然後我們往下去找這個會議記錄的時候想說傳說中的下架原則到底在哪裡記錄呢一下子出現一下子消失最後7月13終於在你們的平台上上架了有這個106年的食安安全會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
26036.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
26058.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
上架了但是沒有看到下架原則這個傳說中神秘的下架原則我們感到非常的想要拜讀那結果這個會議打開沒有下架原則只看到說會議紀錄寫要及時採樣以利舉證請問一下說好的下架原則到底在哪裡至今還沒有看到那明明有一個可以救援的神函是為什麼不使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
26059.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
26072.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
為什麼不使用如果這個韓式不好早就應該在你們說的106年下架原則出來的時候就把它廢止掉了嘛106年的神韓式不使用請問一下他是被卓院長口中那一句應在考慮所耽誤的一個神韓式嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
26073.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
26082.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
跟委員說明因為當時候只是一個食藥署的含釋所以後面為了要正式的所以呢才會召開食品風險的評估執議會那麼根據所有的專家的共識之後才訂出一個原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
26091.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
26119.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
永遠都是各案式的判定定出一個共同性原則你問他會議幾乎跟行政還是哪個效率比較高你就請教你旁邊法學素養也是很豐厚的行政院長那我們接著來看一下食安辦到底督導了什麼食安辦的一個角色功能之一他是要督導業者他有沒有在推行食品安全的時候展現自律的精神請問一下食安辦友好的督導業者有沒有展現自律的精神嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
26119.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
26136.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
石崇良部長說沒有林淑芬也說沒有為什麼沒有呢我們來看一下新聞報導因為石崇良部長在接受新聞記者採訪的時候提到說業者所提供的樣本是造假的 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
26137.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
26151.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
那問這個食安法的作用在哪裡林淑芬表示食安法已經遭到業者的架空了所以請問一下業者滿滿呈現在我們眼前就是不自律不自律不自律請問一下食安辦督導了什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
26153.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
26175.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
根據食安法的話 那麼主管機關有兩個在地方的話就是地方縣市政府 在中央的話就是我們衛福部所以兩個的主管機關 那麼食安辦最主要是在跨部會的協調院長不就召集人 召集人請問一下食安辦督導了什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
26176.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
26196.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
他不是要督導業者有沒有自律嗎結果我們的時務部長說業者所提供的樣本造假然後林淑芬立委說食安法遭業者架空業者呈現在我們眼前完全不自律我們為什麼會說業者的樣本有問題因為業者提供來的這張數據全部都是合格的都是沒有超標的 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
26197.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
26217.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
相同時間算出來的是假鈔標的所以我們認為這個樣本有問題那造假也是石部長說的嘛所以無論是衛福部或是食安辦沒有去了解沒有經過這樣的調查怎麼會發現這樣不同的數據呢食安辦還有另外一個角色功能他要先辦理食品事件的演練迅速回燒問題的產品米品 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
26219.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
26244.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
那個民眾的疑慮那請問一下整件事6月30爆發7月7號4點才宣布全面性的預防下架我剛有好好的拜託您的專報所有4到6月中年有問題的郵品是在7月10號中午12點才全面性的下架所以已經delay delay再delay了啦請問這裡有發生所謂的迅速回收產品迷平民眾疑慮的一個表現出來嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
26247.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
26273.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
有品7月3號中午12點就下架了主要成加工品 第二成加工品 第三成加工品 第二成一樣啊 食品人民也是吃進去就是因為7月3號的下午5點鐘我們重新討論才有7月4號的專家會議專家會議那個天兵政策早就被人民笑死了委員你還沒來這裡之前你也是專家你怎麼可以說專家是天兵沒有啦 不是你們專家的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
26275.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
26295.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
也許有他參考的價值,你們是最後的把關者那在人民的感受就是一個天兵政策,怎麼會不就換樣子專政的再加上這完全是一個天兵的政策,我是說天兵政策不是專家政策請問一下,食安辦有沒有及格?食安辦的表現有沒有及格?在卓院長的眼中 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
26295.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
26324.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
出國考察的錢有沒有浪費民脂民膏啦出國考察去學習有沒有浪費民脂民膏食安辦有沒有及格食安辦現在我們在討論的過程中提供這種機會我們才能夠透過衛福部找到這兩個不一樣的檢驗的數據食安的政府就是不及格所以食安辦不及格蔡英文總統聽到我們回答了接著做不好就換人做這也是蔡總統說的請問一下院長你認同嗎做不好就換人做 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
26326.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
26348.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
對我們應該把這件事情好好的做好好好的做好那什麼時候要換人做等做好的時候什麼時候要換人做我們會在一個禮拜之內會把該修的執法修好該修的草案實案法草案送出來我們看一下十年前民進黨立法院黨堂法會自己把食品安全管理好嗎法不會自己把食品安全管理好 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
26349.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
26365.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
現在呢 我們的政府好像也不會把食品安全管理好嘛所以我們看後面的標題江一彎要下台 馬一九要道歉對照今天的時空背景 請問誰要下台卓榮泰要下台賴清德要道歉 請問有嗎這兩件事情有發生在人民的眼前嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
26365.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
26381.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
我們剛剛跟委員報告就是從6月30號7月1號到現在每一天的作為請問一下有人要下台嗎上台靠機會下台靠智慧請問我們現在的國內閣有這樣的智慧嗎請問誰要下台請問這件事有人要負起責任請問誰要下台 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
26381.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
26392.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
今天來這裡做專案報告是對於中聯遊行的事情我們不是來討論內閣的問題內閣的閣員有內閣閣員有事任不事任有行政責任在追究我自然會處理內閣閣員有事任不事任有行政責任好好 謝謝邱委員 謝謝卓院長下一位請張雅玲委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
26436.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
26438.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
現在主席有請院長跟石部長請卓院長跟石部長備選張委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
26455.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
26474.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
院長想請教一下因為我今天主要是想要請教院長就是對於我們地方因為這個其實根據食安法的規定我們其實中央跟地方都要一起來努力但是因為我現在看到比較多是中央的一些相關進度我對於台北中市政府這次事發之地有一些細節 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
26475.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
26492.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
我不是那麼清楚所以我想要了解院長有沒有掌握部長有沒有掌握因為剛剛我們的這個邱委員有提到做不好就下台那我認為我們也必須更清楚的知道到底是誰沒做好誰應該要下台負責如果真的要討論這個問題的話好 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
26495.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
26509.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
所以呢針對我們的食安法的一個責任分工呢我們其實在第二條中央主管機關是衛福部地方就是由各縣市政府來處理稽查抽驗和業者管理那第41條也有明訂我們的直轄市縣市主管機關呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
26510.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
26535.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
可以是進場抽查查驗調閱相關的流向對於有違反標準的人的廠商可以命令他暫停作業停止販賣並封存產品第52條則要求地方政府依查驗結果命令回收銷毀必要時可以代為執行那食安法所定的處罰原則上是由地方政府來執行的這是我的理解對嗎院長是的好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
26536.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
26558.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
所以這一次對於台中市政府這次事發的地點我現在看到的是說到底他是何時第一次進入工廠來執行正式的稽查我在新聞上面好像並不是那麼確定6月30號台中市政府獲報啟動流向調查7月1號要求業者停用下架7月5號是到7月5號 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
26561.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
26583.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
他有這個衛生局長帶隊赴中聯工廠檢視製程這邊要釐清喔如果41條他是不是應該要儘快而不是等到7月5號呢因為我看了我們這個行政院跟衛福部的相關單位是每一天我們都有進度嘛對不對那到底我們台中市政府是何時第一次呢這個不知道院長或部長有沒有掌握 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
26584.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
26598.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
跟委員說明我們是在6月30號接獲通報所以因為有中聯的沙拉油超標的問題所以我們食藥署是在7月1號協同台中市 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
26599.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
26625.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
史安處到中聯另外也到福壽跟福茂去做實地的了解同日就要求中聯先停止製造跟販售所以這個是大概我們是第一次的協同台中市衛生局的史安處進入到這個事件的主要業者 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
26626.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
26650.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
了解 那我想問就是說因為其實這次似乎我們在5月12號5月12號以及4月的批次都有超標所以我們中央因此幫中聯4月到6月生產的29批的油品全面納入預防性下降那表示說我們的源頭的原料驗收製程管理可能都出現了一個系統性的問題那地方政府就必須要去說明他到底如何稽查 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
26652.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
26668.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
如何去檢驗這個本品品對不對所以我想要了解就是說針對這個部分現在是衛福部有沒有了解為什麼這個風險會不斷的擴大跟委員說明那麼我們一開始是獲報的是幾批的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
26671.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
26685.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
這個檢體呢這個樣品被驗出那麼通報給我們那但是因為我們在7月6號呢就已經把這個中聯所出貨的這些有品留存的樣本我們一併一起送驗所以到了7月7號 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
26687.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
26704.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
他再有一批通報那我們7月8號拿到了留存在中聯的原本的這個樣本一比對之下發現報告不一致所以我們警覺到說那整批啊他所有的這個批次的樣本的檢驗是有問題的 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
26705.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
26730.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
所以是衛福部這邊掌握到嗎對 我們掌握到這個情形所以才會跟院長報告這個事情由院長在7月9號在院會裡面宣布全面性的預防下架不再等到還有業者這個終端的產品驗出那麼再來處理先做一個最大範圍的止損不要讓這個民眾的健康那麼受到任何的疑慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
26730.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
26746.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
但是因為國民黨也有批評說我們這些宣布其實好像有點像擠牙膏式好像是一次一次一點點的這樣子的宣布那我不曉得說院長或是對衛福部對這樣子的說法這個我們本來判斷6月30號的通報雖然是以前的案子從7月1號開始處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
26749.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
26775.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
當時想如果是單一的事件那就單一趕快查他來源往上追往下追來源可是到了7月7號第二批出現我們就那時候察覺或許這不是單一的案件因為不同的批號出現了一樣的達標後來到7月9號7月12號又同樣出現了這個狀況所以這就全然不是一個單純的單一事件所以7月7號第二批出現的時候我們在7月9號馬上決定全部預防性下降 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
26777.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
26801.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
那我想問一下就是說因為這個我不太確定問題的這個歸屬上面我們應該如何來精進就是說在於地方政府平時稽查以及風險監測制度是不是過於依賴業者自主管理的呢而導致了這一次的食安風暴所以我們現在強化的就是這個自主檢驗的頻率以及 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
26801.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
26823.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
我們要透過第三方認證的機構能夠去進行更有效的一個驗證來查驗他檢驗出來的數據是否為正確可用這個是要做的另外要建立一個業者以及第三方機構都要有及時通報的責任才不會像這次一樣延路四十幾天造成這麼大的一個傷害 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
26824.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
26849.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
那我想請教一下這個院長就是說因為我們一直在講這個因為食安就是國安嘛我們其實大家都非常在乎這個食用的安全那這個所謂的即時通報到底是多久是24小時還是48小時還是由業者自行來判斷因為我想這個可能也要並得非常的明確如果檢驗器官只有通知委託業者也就是我們現在講的這個第三方也有這個通報的責任那這個如果我們的業者延遲數日 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
26851.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
26873.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
如果這個時間沒有定的很精確的話我們可能就還是會讓這些問題的產品持續的在這個市面上面流通所以我們是不是可以把相關的這個時間以及他一旦超過法定限量我們的實驗室以及業者都要在同一個同一個時間段裡面去通知我們的中央的地方主管機關這為了草案 施平業者應該知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
26874.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
26888.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
知悉有超標違規情形24小時內就必須通報這是草案的內容文字我們還要請衛部做最後的修 審慎的來訂定那這個就是未來食安法的修法的草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
26889.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
26906.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
好那我想在最後我想請教一下那個教育部就是說因為我們在這一次呢其實我非常擔心就是我們營養午餐的部分就是說我們是不是有掌握這個團善業者公餐中心以及食材供應商使用的原料癖好呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
26906.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
26935.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
還是我們現在只能夠去查到產品的名稱和廠商的名稱呢這是不是可以請部長來告訴我們因為我會認為說這跟我們校園安全現在是因為剛好是暑假但是接下來萬一它放在上課時間的話學校就必須要及時的第一時間知道衛福部也應該要跟教育部一起來合作來讓我們學校都可以窒息而不是只有透過網路上面公告不曉得說部長可不可以先回應到底我們有沒有掌握確實在7月1號的時候我們已經掌握到這個食安署這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
26937.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
26965.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
的這個這個訊息我們已經在我們這個校園的食材登錄的平台裡面就全部把這一些Keyword中聯還有這個福茂福壽跟這個泰山沙拉有Keyword進去以後我們就收到有1385的學校有用這一個然後我們就馬上知會這一個22個地方縣市教育局 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
26966.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
26986.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
很快的在針對這些學校裡面我們的團善業者以及這個食材的公餐中心都有被通知到嗎?都有都有全面只要這個每一梯是這個食安署所公布的這些不良的這些油品跟批號我們事實上就隨著每一次的公布然後就全面清查然後就下架 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
26987.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
26988.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
我想在這一個裡邊我們這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
27006.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
27022.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
供應企業裡面都會把他這個看怎樣因應這一次的一個實案因為過去本來這一個團善業者如果因為違反了使用的這些不合法的或者這個劣質的一些產品他本來都應該要負法律責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
27023.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
27037.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
最後請教院長 因為大家一直在謠傳我覺得現在是一種抹黑 說我們現在已經要讓他重新上架了院長是不是可以針對這件事情做一個澄清好嗎因為我們叫預防性下架 但必須要有後續 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
27037.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
27058.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
那後續一定要他檢驗合格或提出任何可以證明的合格證書經過主管機關同意之後那現在都還不到這個程度現在我們是針對這29批當中的21批逐批的來驗一定要驗到他完全都沒有問題了我們才會考慮到那個時候如何下一步這個上架的問題現在還不到考慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
27064.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
27090.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
好 謝謝張委員 謝謝卓院長下一位請吳宗憲委員質詢謝謝主席 那我們麻煩院長上台好 請卓院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
27100.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
27111.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
吳維好 院長你好第一個我先說明一件事情其實我國的國家制度國會立委他是監督中央政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
27111.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
27139.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
那台中市議員是監督台中市政府但是現在變得很奇怪很多立委在監督台中市政府自己變成台中市議員我雖然我還是這樣啦尊重啦但是我心中是滿滿的不解國會議員什麼時候變成是變成台中市議員其實功能是設計不同這邊先說明那我想這次中聯自來油的事件整個國家的食安政策其實有出了一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
27141.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
27162.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
那到目前為止上週五這個衛福部公布的那個數據是2.75萬噸那當然是這樣平均下來當然不是說吃完了啦就是說平均下來跟每個人可能有關的平均是1.25公升就大概1.15公斤左右其實這些可能會接觸到可能會食用到的這些人裡面有孩子 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
27163.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
27184.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
有老人也有托嬰中心的那也有長照機構的也有軍隊吃飯的所以這個人是非常的廣所以其實我很在意的一個點就是到底我們回收了多少因為我現在知道回收量非常非常的低那還有多少在市面那當然這個跟第一層第二層第三層各種還到調理包調理油等等都有很大的關聯性 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
27185.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
27213.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
我想這個是跟民生有非常重大而且我又看到當年民進黨在野的時候在處理我們的鼎新油的時候是如何的捍衛我們國人的安全我們的健康是多麼用力在捍衛但是到今天我就看不到這個尤其是我想7月3號衛福部跟院長您報告一級致癌物驗出這個問題的時候當時我知道當天你很忙你還去宜蘭去輔選 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
27214.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
27239.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
但是你當時跟我們的部長您說的是說應再考慮當然這個應再考慮你剛說法我有聽到但是這個說法其實目前很多國人沒有辦法接受這個可能要麻煩院長您日後再多加解釋能夠讓我們理解為什麼是應再考慮尤其是這個問題的由其實11月就出來了6月通報那7月3號還沒有做出一個明確的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
27245.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
27269.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
這個那個下架的這個決定那這個我就不太理解還有就是說我們7月1號宣布下架第一層然後7月4號一個20%的幽靈標準這個標準以上才有問題然後7月7號又說不到20要下架7月9號又說中年4到6月所有的油品下架前前後後政府修正好幾次其實一個SOP一個科學的數據不應該是這樣變來變去 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
27272.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
27286.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
而且是這段時間到底有多少油跟加工油品油在市面上請問你們有掌握嗎這個空窗期有多少委員剛剛你那個圖卡說僅下架第一層那我說應再考慮這意思就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
27287.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
27312.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
不能自己下架第一層為什麼這麼簡單的事情已經講了三四次了這個您在日後跟國人溝通這句話非常多人不懂你的意思而且也麻煩您看一下當天質詢的時候我們的部長是在什麼樣的問句下面回答同仁的好 沒有 不用這個東西我現在沒有在問部長請尊重我的質詢 謝謝院長你也當過立委請尊重我的質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
27317.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
27342.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
所以我沒有辦法就是說了解行政院為什麼用一個更寬鬆的態度在面對這次沒有更寬鬆的嚴謹鼎心有更嚴重的這個問題啦那沒關係 院長這樣好了啦因為我們都是法律人但是我有另外一個專業是公共衛生嘛我自己現在是台大公共衛生的國事候選人那我是麻煩一件事麻煩院長幫忙一件事可不可以請國會院還有國建署用公衛的角度 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
27343.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
27364.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
去做一個長期健康風險的評估那我們看一下這次的曝露量對人體實際可能他致癌的機率會增加多少那是不是可以在我們一些宣傳上面告訴我們的民眾可以多飲用多吃什麼樣的食物啊一些那個抗氧化的食物啊可以去加速代謝可不可以麻煩這件事能夠做到 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
27366.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
27389.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
可以嗎?我們來研究好 謝謝 這個部分想麻煩一下那再來這次我還有一個疑問點就是說很奇怪的一個就是部長您說你質疑這個檢體造假所以這個全案要送到檢調去當然這個我也是尊重啦但是既然我們一下又覺得這個廠商可能會造假但是呢我們對於這個4到6月的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
27392.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
27406.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
中聯郵的部分還有大統一台灣糖業跟長輝我沒有要求是由他們驗然後自主檢驗所以這個部分我就不了解你既不相信他們但是你又要他們自己驗那這個原因是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
27407.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
27428.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
跟委員說明其實自主檢驗這個是在法明訂這個是在食安法明訂的那這個事件之後其實我們也對另外三個主要的上游的提供的業者大統益啦台糖啦長輝我們也去採樣了也在驗那初步的驗體我們採了三十個樣本初步有三個檢體出來那麻煩增加自主檢驗好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
27429.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
27449.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
因為我們民眾已經開始不知道該相信誰的話我希望不要說不敢再往四月以前驗甚至往四月以前我們還要驗因為民眾可能吃下肚了也不要不敢擴大驗看看還有沒有其他的廠商的必須驗我們不能說讓那個人民的常委來幫我們一起 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
27451.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
27473.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
湮滅證據啦把這些有害的油吃光了驗不到就沒事所以麻煩可以的話我們主動擴大驗往前去驗7月10號、12號四家廠商的驗單就在這裡我們有獨家去驗所做的五大裁試我在想有漏掉一個部分拖音中心跟長照機構這個部分好像沒有在你們論述裡面講到 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
27475.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
27500.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
但是0到2歲的嬰兒他們的發育代謝發育還沒有完全那長照機構的長者他們的肝腎功能可能也常常都有一些狀況那這些風險越高的人本來我們防線應該擺在最前面因為他們要嘛就是還不會用筷子的小朋友要嘛就是用筷子都有困難的長者這些人是我們更該保護的是不是可以麻煩你們要專案的清查然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
27501.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
27517.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
院長部長一個月內可不可以給我一個就是托嬰中心還有長照機構的這個你們要怎麼處理可以告訴我們一下你們SOP是什麼好不好因為你們這次沒有講到這兩個族群這兩個族群是最沒有辦法替自己講話的族群拜託一定要做到 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
27520.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
27544.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
我想一個成熟的治理團隊不是說事情爆了我們才來做才在那邊要怎麼樣擠牙膏試著公布啦很多時候我要有能力把風險越高的這個族群我們要優先來協助他們聲音越小的優先來幫助他們這個才是治理嘛不是一個危機處理啦這部分麻煩兩位最後我想一個東西啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
27546.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
27573.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
院長報告因為最近有一個媒體他做了一個這個調查他說有這個10萬人的投票他認為你應該下台的是有92.9這麼多那我想當年我就說民進黨在野的時候非常用心捍衛我們人民的食安那當時呢在鼎新遊的時候真的喊出出事就要有人負責要有人下台總統要道歉然後那個院長要下台部長要負責 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
27574.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
27592.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
等等的但是在這一次我們其實沒有看到類似當年捍衛我們安全的這個態度出來所以我一直覺得說我想跟院長報告一下就是因為這一次的民調是這樣那 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
27594.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
27610.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
請院長您也要參考一下院長我之前跟你提過你在當立委的時候你的質詢以及你的專業是我們都非常崇拜的但是今天我很希望說你也能夠像當年我崇拜的那個那個人一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
27611.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
27638.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
在面對每一件事情那我也不想不理性的來跟各位做質詢那我也想跟院長報告中央政府不能只剩下選舉跟輔選的功能一治國一團亂這樣是不行的譬如說三讀通過的法律可以不執行四憲中也可以當作藉口不執行這全世界民主國家沒有人這樣做啦你這已經創了先例別的民主國家連想都不敢想就我們這邊直接幹 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
27639.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
27660.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
最後一分鐘我想我還是我沒有請院長這次我沒請院長回去但是我很希望跟全國同胞講幾句話我自己是一個五歲小孩兒子不到三個月女兒的爸爸那我也是一個爸爸媽媽都八十幾歲的小孩的兒子 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
27661.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
27684.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
我買個食物你看我怕蘋果有農藥殘留馬鈴薯遇到發芽醬料有蘇丹紅雞蛋有分譜尼我不知道該怎麼辦我很害怕我很害怕我的小孩沒有辦法健康長大我很害怕我的爸媽身體健康受到傷害所以全國各位爸爸媽媽我想告訴全國的這些同胞 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
27685.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
27713.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
你們還有這些同時養老養小的三明治世代你們不害怕不憤怒嗎如果你們也會覺得不甘心喔其實真的要跟我們一樣站起來去面對我們的現在賴清德政府台灣人要憤怒啦台灣人要吶喊啦台灣人要奮鬥啊要告訴國家你做錯了你做錯了好 謝謝吳委員 謝謝卓院長接下來請鍾嘉斌委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
27728.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
27738.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
主席 在場的委員先進列席的政府經貿上的官員會場的工作夥伴台上的媒體記者女士先生有請卓院長請卓院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
27747.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
27768.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
總委好院長辛苦了今天要談食安所有的題目由穩定加工產銷來設立食品風管基金同時也關心另外一個議題股市接軌國際不以台北市停搬為據好我們來看一下剛剛院長答詢說財閥中聯而且下游的加工品下架請問院長誰受害最大 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
27769.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
27794.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
我們看到了中聯罰了1.65億嘛對不對但是他是始作俑者該罰對不對是罰得再重大家都覺得應該對是但是源頭是中聯那裁罰源頭大家認為合理那請問這樣的划環的用途是要用在哪裡是誰受害消費者受害還有受害者有哪些可以用來補償受害者嗎這個受害者的補償我們現在會 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
27799.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
27823.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
協助來提起團體訴訟所以我們對於這些廠商的財產的保全我們也請法務部再積極的來設法證據保全財產保全希望未來團體訴訟之後如果能夠順利達到的話求償有門受害者要跟犯錯的人求償沒有錯好我們往下看其實食安供應鏈這個受害者有很多我們看一下首先 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
27823.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
27850.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
中聯油脂它是上游的原料但是我們看到這些不同層次有B to B對業者也有B to C的到了第二層有福壽石業有福馬油脂有泰山企業這都是用原料來生產的他們本身也是中聯的大股東但是在往中游的油品加工往下走看到下游的食品加工有包括南橋油脂包括連鎖餐飲包括食品廠商做泡麵的還有小吃業者 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
27851.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
27871.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
這些受到B2B波及的中下業者產品下要重新檢驗他有營業損失我們現在保護了通路末端的消費者一般大眾就是B2C的CB2C的C的消費者可以退貨可以退款但是政府提供了B2C消費者的保障那中下有無辜的業者的損失要找誰賠 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
27873.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
27899.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
所以我剛剛說過其實是要感謝這些忠孝友的廠商第一時間能夠配合政府的政策擴大預防性下降那我們在經過一定嚴謹的程序他合格檢驗之後我們才會來考慮如何來開始執行這個恢復上架行政院這樣的做法是讓他們損失減輕啊一旦證明他們的產品實在是要優先他們無錯就應該好但是我們看到食品衛生 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
27900.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
27927.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
安全衛生管理法第56條之一這個食品安全保護基金啊它是從法環來的但是它只能用來補助消費者提起訴訟最後賠償的還是敗訴的業者要賠那我們看到了食藥署開罰這樣的一個消費者求償官司但是無辜的中下游上流原料出問題那麼他配合下架那如果一旦確認法律他沒有責任那麼中下游下架這是個損失 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
27928.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
27936.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
他要找源頭犯錯的人來賠償嗎來求償嗎是這樣嗎理論上也不可能可以這個樣子做 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
27937.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
27959.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
是但是呢我們想到其實在我們社會當中呢有很多的產業大家彼此的息息相關所以我這裡大膽的提出請院長指示我們行政院去研擬一下有一個叫做食品加工產銷秩序的風險管理基金怎麼說呢我講兩個例子你就理解過去國人參加旅行社常常因為單一的旅行社跳票 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
27960.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
27979.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
因此團客在國外回不來沒有錢付旅館錢沒有錢付機票但是後來我們成立了政府協助之下成立一個旅行平保協會業者分攤平保基金政府沒有出錢他們業者成立的但是政府促成其中一個旅行業違約用這筆錢把消費者安全的送回國來 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
27980.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
28007.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
這是一個例子叫集體的保障另外一個叫聯防什麼意思呢我們過去做過禽流感的清洗農政部門要求每個續禽場只要有禽流感一定要通報可是通報的結果是什麼是撲殺那撲殺的損失很大因此政府根據我們的動物傳染病防治條例40條中央跟地方會適度的給這些配合政府預防禽流感配合撲殺的這些養殖業者一些補償 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
28009.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
28033.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
所以我這裡請院長思考一下我們有上流的原料業者有中流的加工者有下流的通路商這是我們國人的食品通路鏈如果我們設立一個食品加工產銷風管基金只要你是主動通報配合下架的未來用這個基金對這些無辜的配合的中下業的業者來進行補償院長可不可以指示經濟部來研擬一下原來 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
28035.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
28056.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
我聽到這樣的一個建議的時候我想說我們是有一個食品安全保護基金但用途是不一樣它是在協助訴訟的費用地方政府的這些食安的計畫等等補助對於委員所說對於中層業者或是下游業者營業上的損失商運上的損失這個食安基金是沒有辦法用到的所以我請 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
28059.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
28077.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
10億元的規模也不足於社會最大的需求可以透過保險的機制我們經濟部有一個食品工業發展研究所當年為了發展我們國內的食品工業經濟部出面請業者共同出資成立一個海產法人這幾年帶動我們的食品技術的進步現在我們未來的產銷風險建議行政院可以考慮由經濟部來衡量 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
28084.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
28108.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
協助業者成立這樣一個風管基金幫助他們面對這些不是自己的責任不是自己錯誤造成的風險減輕他們的負擔可以考慮一下嗎好 謝謝委員每次我們遇到一個大的事件之後都會對這本身事件將來如何處理讓它更優化也會擴張整個安全的機制那委員所建議的就是一個社會安全機制的一個考量好 我認為我們可以從專業上來做一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
28110.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
28128.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
謝謝卓院長願意考量那本來要請教你食安法的修法的時程跟方向因為你提說食安及國安那有包括四個方向但是剛剛在聽您的其他答詢大概都已經講了那麼請問院長對於這個部分還有沒有補充的食安法會在一個禮拜之內完成這個包括第七條第41條有幾個條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
28131.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
28153.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
條文的這個修正的草案那會經過行政院的程序即快送請立法院那另外關於食安法相關的一些管理上的執法法規的命令等等我們也會在一個禮拜把它修訂完成讓它更完善另外大家關心的議題啊其實跟衛福部有點關係但是什麼不是衛福部造成的無謂停班造成的迫切醫療排程大亂病友受害要找誰負責啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
28154.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
28175.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
這次有地方政府無謂的宣布停班結果造成很多排程不能進行那這個情況呢不保證未來不會再發生院長再往下看你來看一看獨佔型的服務系統啊它的營運呢它不會以天后停班為判準舉例來講台北捷運台北市停班了台北捷運有停死嗎沒有啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
28176.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
28199.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
我們看到說如果桃園市政府宣布停班了桃園機場會停止起降嗎沒有不管桃園市有沒有正常上班下班機場的起降另外判斷包括高鐵高鐵是全台的網路高鐵有沒有停止營運是風雨狀況跟路段來調整跟他沿線的地方政府有沒有停班沒有關聯吧院長是不是覺得說類似這樣獨佔型的服務系統他視為要維持營運應有獨特的考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
28205.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
28225.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
在決定因為風災停班停課之後因為考慮到通行上交通的安全所以對這些有通勤的這些人員盡量減少輸入所以都才全部的停班那是上班的慣例但是系統的服務醫院要服務病人醫院不會因為說你停班了我就不接受急診的患人 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
28226.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
28248.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
病患嘛 最後我們來看一下包括北榮陳院長他說到延誤了很多還好的開刀檢驗那這些都排很久 等很久我們來看一下 股市是大家最關切的你認為股市停修根據台北的天災決定有個依據呢我查出來了30年前訂了一個辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
28250.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
28265.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
證交所他有沒有休市要看台北市有沒有停班可是我們想想看這個合理嗎我們來看一下如果說今天台北市是正常上班其他縣市因風雨停班你覺得證券交易所會不會繼續營業會 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
28267.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
28291.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
會啊 那其他停班的地方銀行沒有開 券商沒有開投資大眾的損失怎麼處理 你知道嗎我告訴你怎麼處理其實呢 目前啊我們目前已經高度化我們是跟國際接軌其實台北市如果停班股市要休市 券商放假但是證交所的人員繼續上班結果停止交易但是如果是其他縣市 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
28292.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
28320.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
有停班呢股市照常開市券商自行決定要不要工作證交所人員一樣上班但是呢票券的就是順延所以目前對於因為銀行、券商不能夠上班但是股市交易持續進行都有補償的機制所以院長我直接講我主張台北釋放颱風架股市照常交易只需要幾個地方要有第一中央銀行的通知系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
28320.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
28343.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
第二券商的總公司銀行的總公司還有證交所不受台北市停班的影響可以維持全國其他縣市還有全國的投資大眾的金融交易跟世界接軌你同意嗎你願不願意考慮一下未來的方向可以研議不過我還是認為停班停課第一要依照中央氣象署正確的答案第二 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
28343.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
28355.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
北北激逃或是區域性的中部南部的不應該影響全國獨佔性的服務系統的影響好不好區域性的生活秩序要讓它一致好 謝謝鍾委員 謝謝卓院長下一位請楊瓊瑩委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
28373.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
28381.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
謝謝院會主席 江副院長卓院長所領軍的行政院團隊各位同仁 新聞界的朋友 楊瓊一發言首先邀請院長請卓院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
28391.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
28417.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
我也請部長一起,我們好好討論一下市部長請背書謝謝院長好我想我們今天針對於食品安全標準的調整跟政策如何透明制度但是我們看到每一次的調整標準通常最後就只有一個公告這個數字這樣子的一個資訊公開真的能夠符合我們食安第四條所規定的科學 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
28418.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
28423.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
這個證據風險評估跟資訊的透明原則嗎請教院長公告數據因為到最後就是只有公告數字告訴我們也就很食安無慮那部長在點頭所以如果只有公告這樣子我們可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
28440.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
28453.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
這個科學依據科學證據風險的評估跟資訊的透明化我認為是非常重要所以我們接下來討論在近十年當中呢我們從食安的這個標準多次的來調整多次調整從茶葉從萵苣從進口的 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
28456.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
28478.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
這個豬肉呢還有最近多項的水果農藥殘留的這個標準呢都一直在修正那也引發了社會的一個疑慮也就是好像是標準是否越趕越寬的這樣的一個疑慮就像最近的蘋果那麼這個芬普尼的這個殘留呢從原本的0.5ppm調升到3ppm |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
28480.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
28506.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
那等於社會大眾認為他調高的是6倍那政府可以告訴我們說是因為科學依據所定的標準但是我要告訴院長的就是說人民真正想要知道的是什麼是誰提出申請採用哪些的一個試驗為什麼要定在3個PPM尤其在兒童跟高攝取族群他的風險又是多少請做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
28507.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
28533.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
跟委員說明其實委員所提到的我們近期在115年4月21號公告調整的農藥ML標準一共有174項其實它並不是只單一個項目那麼如果以蘋果為例的話它其實在111年就已經有人提出來要修了所以這中間為什麼會拖這麼久就是我們必須要經過科學的評估就如同您講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
28534.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
28560.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
那麼過去我們是把蘋果類直接沒有單獨定的MRL直接定在其他離果類就是混在一個大箱子裡面那其實這裡面的每一種的水果它的施種方式在田野的這個施藥情形是不一樣的再加上近期的有一些新的農藥也會出現所以我們必須與時俱進的去檢討那麼哪一些農藥 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
28561.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
28572.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
目前是在市面上使用需要訂出它的農藥的MRL的殘留標準那麼根據科學的證據跟我們的這個栽種的這個行為跟這個對人體的影響來訂出來所以這個都有嚴謹的評估過程 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
28579.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
28606.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
所以本席具體要求如果只有告訴我們一個數字就告訴我們安全無虞民眾是不安心的所以本席來具體建議就是未來在食品跟農業產業的標準調高的時候你必須要同步的來公布完整的風險評估的一個報告讓人民能夠清楚包括你修正前後的差異你試驗的這個資料不同年齡暴露的風險以及 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
28608.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
28634.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
國際上因為我們必須要跟國際接軌國際的一個比較還有在專家會議的名單利益的披露以及會議記錄跟不同意見也應該要同步的這個公布換句話說不是公布的一個數字告訴我們只有一句話安全無虞但是民眾是有疑慮的所以標準改變你必須要讓人民他是看得懂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
28635.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
28659.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
他是查得到的他也是能夠監督的院長你同意本席所建議的建議來強制公開制度納入到我們的食安法的修正你同意嗎委員所說的有幾項是比我們現在還要再精細那這個我覺得我們應該要學習我覺得我們現在他的安全的容許量是按照國內外的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
28661.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
28683.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
讀物的資料還有就是我們食用的習慣量 攝取的量所以我們一個結果論也就是說你公佈一個數字 民眾不了解所以我希望建立一個公開的訊息都有研究 但是要不要公佈到這麼近都有研究 都有數據 要不要全部公佈出來你同意納入在你的食安修法的內容嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
28685.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
28708.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
目前這個部分沒有我們會來考量接下來本席要請教針對我們今天的專報我不只要問的是到底政府下架了多少產品你罰了多少錢而是我要追問一個更根本的一個問題也就是石棺法裡頭他明明裡面就已經有業者 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
28709.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
28736.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
有規定了業者你必須要自主檢驗主動通報食品的一個追溯以及政府你必須要檢驗那如果有問題的你要抽驗要停工封存下架的這些制度那本席要請問院長為什麼這麼多的防線沒有一道能在問題有流入市場前把它攔下來為什麼就是中央跟地方政府都碰到一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
28738.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
28745.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
遲延通報 刻意引力的一個業者那怎麼辦呢 本家請教我們討論這件事件這案我們用司法調查 科與重法另外我們針對這個缺失加強檢驗的頻率 加強通報的機制限時通報 即時通報 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
28755.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
28776.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
因為問題就在你們說6月30日通報但是在6月11號就已經知道是有問題是啊所以這19天那我們該當要怎麼樣調整修法我們的政策以及檢驗就是未來業者發現這個事情的時候他不能只通報他的上游的廠商他必須通報主管機關可以他這樣的責任跟意義所以院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
28777.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
28799.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
他必須要因為業者送到實驗室裡而去實驗室只通報給復會的業者所以我們政府這一段你們根本不知道所以未來我們在修法的當中必須必須要將實驗室如果檢驗到出院有問題的時候必須要同步來通報給復會的業者以及給 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
28803.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
28824.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
這個主管機關單位同步去進行你才不會有這19天的一個漏洞嘛因為這19天的漏洞到底還流出了多少部長有答覆我未來修法的這個20小時內要通報在這19天當中部長查了這麼久我們到底在這19天當中我們到底流出了多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
28825.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
28843.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
進了人民的肚子有多少影響的下游產業有多少跟委員報告因為我們從6月30號獲知就積極的在逐步逐步一直釐清隨著我們的資料越來越充足之後我們才能夠把這個範圍現在你所說的院長都是被動式的 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
28848.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
28871.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
所以包括了校園他必須依照你食藥署公佈然後教育部在平台上面實材平台上去核對到目前為止我們已經核對了多少呢已經核對了包括幼兒園跟學校有881家 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
28873.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
28894.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
你們用一個疑似疑似喔 院長用了一個疑似 我要請問你這個疑似到底到目前為止這881家的學校疑似到底是有還是沒有你政府需不需要立即做分類告訴社會大眾你這個疑似到底是有還沒有你讓民眾心驚驚 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
28895.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
28921.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
跟委員說明也就是因為我們在7月9號宣布全面性的預防下架才後面呢陸陸續續在7月9號7月12號陸陸續續又有案子檢查出來所以這個全面性的預防性下架是對的他提早去防範國人繼續暴露那現在我們要做的事情就是如何透過我們的完整的檢驗分源分項 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
28922.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
28945.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
逐批的確認然後上下游在這個過程當中請教院長如果沒有立即行動我們還有多少會流入出來我自己請教881所學校包括幼兒園到底你的分類還要多久到底什麼時候可以告訴社會大眾這881家你認為疑似到底是有還是沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
28947.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
28976.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
請告訴我們一個時間點好嗎跟委員說明現在大概這個我們的有品的項目是大概321項現在是逐項逐項分批的請回答881家學校到底什麼時候可以告訴社會大眾一個禮拜內會把它檢驗完畢之後一個禮拜大數社會大眾881家有沒有所以本席院長現在回收含全部院長現在回收的有品 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
28977.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
28999.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
誰負責 流向到哪裡去很多人質疑喔 會不會換了一個包裝他又上市會不會 不會不會不會你怎麼監督 不會怎麼監督 誰負責回收的油品誰負責 現在去向在哪裡我們都是中央跟地方共同合作在做這個回收 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
29006.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
29014.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
好 謝謝楊委員 謝謝左院長發言會休息五分鐘 休息之後繼續進行質詢 現在休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
29374.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
29396.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
發言人現在繼續開會,請王委員正續質詢好,謝謝主席有請卓院長好,請卓院長備詢還有請委務部司部長好,司部長請備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
29407.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
29414.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
黃委員好 院長好我有聽到了您所提供的專案報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
29416.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
29440.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
我個人認為非常的詳實而且也把未來需要注意的事情都交代的非常的清楚當然我們希望未來還是有更多需要跟國人還有跟相關的委員持續來做互動持續來做精進的地方未來的溝通還要麻煩院長跟部長持續來進行是 請委員多多指教好 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
29441.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
29464.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
那針對這個報告的部分還有幾點還要再跟院長來討論一下包括第一點就是健全這個國家食安防護體系的過程裡面我們如何能夠針對這個食品雲的追溯系統能夠建構的更為完整我們也知道這一次的這個沙拉友的這個含品評比的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
29465.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
29482.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
超標的事件其實看到中央跟地方政府在接貨通報以後呢第一時間就已經展開了非常進擊的查查並且要求相關的業者做後續的停止出售下等這個整個流程可是我們也看到這個廠商的這個延遲通報 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
29483.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
29501.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
導致大量的問題產品流入了市面裡面被不知情的這個民眾吃下了肚子以後造成社會的恐慌讓這個中央跟地方政府拼命的來做這個追查一直到今天還是有在耗費很多的心力來公佈受影響的產品的這個名單 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
29503.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
29527.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
院長我們都認為台灣是一個科技大國過去在多次的食安危機裡面政府早已經建立了而且部署了食品雲的資訊系統可是在這個事件當中我們好像還是需要依賴大量的基層人員來進行人工的追查而無法透過資訊系統第一時間就能夠掌握所有受影響的產品 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
29527.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
29545.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
跟他的流向那院長其實已經要求部長要趕快提出相關的修法來做精進那其中很關鍵的就是要將食品雲的監測範疇延伸到最末端的產品包括受影響非常明顯 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
29546.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
29564.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
所以後續的飯糰、沙拉醬等等那政府在研議將部分的這個高風險的食品從原料一直到最終的產品都全程要納入建設的過程裡面希望能夠達到即時的最終溯源所以這邊有三個問題想要請教第一個就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
29565.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
29590.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
所謂的高風險的食品或原料未來的界定標準跟它的範圍包括哪一些第二個部分那預計要納入完整溯源系統的項目具體會有多少第三個就是現在規定中總共有26類的應建立食品的追溯系統的食品業者都適用嗎這個三個部分麻煩院長來幫忙說明請部長來說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
29592.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
29596.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
跟委員報告那個委員的指教非常精準那這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
29598.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
29627.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
您提到的這個納入我們的這個食品雲非燈不可追蹤溯源的部分主要呢就是依據食安法第九條我們去公告目前一共公告26類那麼這個所謂的高風險的食品或原料我們主要有幾個考量第一個考量就是過去的食安事件的關聯性所以過去如果有發生重大食安事件的幾乎都會放在這裡面所以油品就是在這26個裡面的第一類油脂 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
29628.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
29648.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
那麼也有黃豆也放在這裡面所以第二個就是對於民生的影響我們也有考量這個產業規模第三個是這個產業本身的規模大小所以像我們有的會規定在3000萬以上就是要登錄的是3000萬資本額以上的才進入登錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
29649.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
29660.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
我們有26個類別然後再根據它的產業規模去訂出來那未來剛剛您提到的民生原料啦或者是產品呢那麼我們也都會一併來考慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
29661.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
29690.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
好所以預期在這個具體執行細則在訂立的時候務必要將影響民眾最深使用頻繁的這些大宗民生的原料跟產品必須要能夠把它當作一個很重要的監測的範疇來守護國人時的安全這是第一個部分跟委員補充如果一旦納入我們這個追蹤溯源系統它是從原料到它的產品的流向它是需要登錄清楚的但是不會登錄到個人就是主要是在這個流動 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
29691.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
29711.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
了解那第二部分就是要強化這個社福醫療相關食品的溯源的部分其實在這個過程裡面教育部主管的這個校園營養午餐因為有建制的這個校園食材登錄的平台他會每天的去將食材的資訊全部公開透明所以在這次的事件當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
29713.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
29733.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
政府跟學校在一天之內就能夠完成全面的清查跟通知下架讓大家都覺得非常的安心所以也請教院長這次除了校園之外以後同樣屬於健康敏感的這些族群包括對像有醫院團散、長照機構還有產後護理之家、生後 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
29733.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
29762.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
還有身障福利機構等等的能不能比照校園食材登例制度來要求相關的這些跟健康敏感相關的族群也有同樣的這個作為好 謝謝委員的指教跟提醒您說的這些更屬於弱勢的這些族群更應該受到政府力量的保障所以未來在這個部分我們會請衛福部跟其他的部會跟地方機關能夠來做地方政府來做更多的連結將它納進到我們整個安全保障的體系當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
29763.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
29780.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
是因為我自己在醫療院手很知道針對這些族群我們如何能夠有給他更好的保障那第三個部分就是要嚴懲這個重罰有相關的違反違法的廠商那我們看到公布出來有這麼重的這些划環 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
29781.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
29807.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
那可是呢還有一部分也希望院長這邊來了解那其實我國的這個稅捐激增法跟產業創新的條例都有明確的規定業者如果違反了食安法而且情節重大那政府應該要停止並追回其租稅優惠獎勵或者是補助那針對這次的事件我們所理解目前有中年泰山福壽福茂 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
29808.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
29826.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
南橋這五家業者那過去是否享有政府相關的優惠或者是補助那過去補助或抵扣的金額規模有沒有盤點過了那經濟部跟財政部是否已經啟動追回的行政程序這部分我們希望能夠也讓社會多了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
29827.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
29845.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
院長 我們有這樣的機制 請次長來說明報告委員 我們這邊有清查過這五家業者過去他們是沒有跟經濟部這邊申請相關的補助但是過去我們也了解11年到114年 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
29849.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
29865.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
中聯跟福茂曾經申請智慧機械還有智通訊安全的投資體檢另外福壽也在110年到111年也曾經向經濟部申請研究發展跟智慧機械的投資體檢 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
29866.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
29895.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
那另外那兩家就最近這五年都沒有申請那跟我們說明一下就是申請投資抵檢的部分我們會去看說他前三年有沒有違反重要的這些食安或是這個環安或勞安事件那因為他們過去申請的這個申請的日期是在今年的五月底就是營業失業所得稅結算申報日之前他們就已經申請完了 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
29896.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
29912.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
所以顯然就是說過去他們申請的這個部分目前依照產創條例是沒有辦法追回但是他們未來未來15 16 17年這三年的部分恐怕就是沒有辦法來再來申請這個產創條例的這個相關的這個投資遞減的一個優惠 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
29916.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
29940.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
所以目前看起來都有盤點過而且做了相當的處置那可以把這個書面報告也可以讓我們來做更進一步的了解那就麻煩相關的部會可以持續來追蹤這個部分依照市長剛剛的解釋這個中聯公司他是有一些那我們可以依照法律來做必要的處理我想認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
29941.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
29956.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
一旦接受這樣的租稅的優惠但是做出來的行為卻對社會這麼大的危害而且有刻意隱匿遲延通報的這個行為除了法律司法的調查之外情形上這種租稅的優惠我們會依照現行的制度來予以處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
29956.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
29973.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
好因為我們覺得這樣的話才能展現我們這個政府要捍衛食安的決心好那最後一個問題就是希望公司協議來提升食安的環境來建構永續的食安體系我們了解這個食安法很快要做修訂可是在修法裡面也要必須要正式專業人口的 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
29975.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
29995.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
人力的缺口跟過勞的問題因為我們這次真的是花了很大的人力跟精神在做這些處理那人力的補充未來在相關修法的時候也希望把它能夠納為一個重點包括專業的力量工位師、食品技術等等專業人力能不能夠充分的參與那這部分也請院長來多費心 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
29997.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
30018.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
感謝委員的體貼我們不會因為要解決一個問題又產生另外一個人力上不足造成這種在行政效率上低落的問題我們會全盤考量,謝謝委員好,大家一起努力謝謝謝謝王委員謝謝卓院長,接下來請洪孟愷委員質詢主席謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
30037.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
30039.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
好 主席謝謝 麻煩請卓榮泰院長請卓院長備選 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
30050.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
30077.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
好 院長好食安重於一切 食安就是國安所以我想先在開宗明義來先強調這一次那衛福部長也可以請上來這一次四月到六月的一個郵品中聯的一個郵品其實確實啊在六月三十號中央才接獲到通報但是在這段時間裡面我們的主動查核機制到底在哪邊因為本席先說部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
30078.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
30091.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
通篇你的報告這次現在我們確認是說29批4月到6月29批的有問題的有品全部5批是有問題的那都是由業者通報 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
30093.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
30111.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
你的報告裡面全都是業者通報不是我們主動稽查丟出來這五批有問題的油品那當然最重要的部分中聯在一開始他第一次講是說他有問題的油品之後他們自己的態度是什麼中聯的態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
30112.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
30140.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
中聯最早他應該接受到這個因為你現在有講說他的數值有超過是6月11號他的數值有造假那造假的範圍到底有多廣應該是這麼講就是說我們到他的這個工廠場區呢把他過去每一批出貨都會有一個存留樣本對我們把他的存留樣本那些樣本有沒有問題那些樣本有沒有問題就是因為我們驗出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
30142.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
30162.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
是符合標準可是下游的產品驗出來我們也有驗是超標所以我們才會高度的懷疑要嘛就是它的抽樣過程有問題不然就是樣本本身是一個問題但部長你現在講是我們驗出來它的樣本有下游驗出來有問題是什麼時候的事就是我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
30163.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
30184.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
一方面我們是去把他這個廠區裡面有的一方面呢我們也去收了下游的他出貨之後他給了胡瑪你的報告裡面完全沒有寫到這一段因為我們陸陸續續的檢驗才回來像今天不是今天已經是行政院長食安報告照理講你的報告裡面這一段是沒有寫到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
30184.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
30211.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
因為他散出去52批的中油還有下游300多件我們先focus啦我第一開宗明義我還是先譴責啦我覺得中聯的問題真的是非常嚴重非常惡劣為什麼看一下他6月30號被爆出第一批的時候他的一個致歉公開信他的聲明稿怎麼寫本席再回去看兩個禮拜前他的聲明稿的時候我發覺這家公司是大有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
30212.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
30223.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
他居然講是說除了上次異常批次也就是所謂的4月4號這一批1300噸以外你看他怎麼寫其他批次檢驗數據皆符合法規規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
30226.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
30244.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
其他批次皆符合法律規範但我們現在查出來至少有異常的有幾批五批除了這一批所以他已經被爆出來四月四號的時候他的聲明稿都還可以講說其他批次是符合法律規範是不是更加最大惡極已經被倆包了 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
30246.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
30269.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
還大言不慚講說發政社聲明稿我想這個聲明稿好像大家已經忘記了但是沒有啊今天我們要追責就要追究責任也因此我想先確認一下既然我們現在已經確認了數據有造假不是一批是五批二十九批裡面還會不會有其他批不知道院長已經指示了一個禮拜內要全部都查清嘛我剛剛在口頭報告書面沒有我有加上這一段來 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
30270.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
30294.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
那請教為什麼現在我們確定的是菁英者造假金手者造假研究人造假還是上下交傷賊這個有確定嗎這個只能由檢調去介入我們現在先確保那為什麼我們現在看到檢調這當然沒有要干預個案可是我們看到檢調是這些人全部都交保請回那不會有篡證的嫌疑嗎那是法院交保 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
30296.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
30324.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
而且法院交保的時候是不是還不知道有5批法院交保的時候是不是部長也講說還不知道說有數據造假不符合那過去這幾天又過去了我們檢調的動作在哪裡在跟委員報告齁 那個這部分是那個中聯的中聯的那個總經理他是有生壓的喔喔 他是用串證不是兩千萬交保了嗎那是法院交保的所以這部分我們抗告了 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
30325.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
30353.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
要抗告 所以他現在人呢現在當然是交保出去 現在抗告那是法院交保 不是檢察官交保不是嗎 是申請 沒錯所以我現在我們認為我們部長 部長那個時候是不是還不知道說食藥署還不知道衛福部有告訴我們說是數據造假的部分那現在有沒有篡證 現在有沒有勾結起來讓檢調有新疑的資訊 趕快再去提我們要抗告嘛 那時候我們希望法院能夠支持嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
30353.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
30379.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
支持能夠能夠那個撤銷原財電不要這時候還讓不要這時候還讓國人認為是說我們是讓他們上下交相罪尤其是尤其是為什麼這個問題相對重要是因為過去大家不知道是說有可能有數據造假的疑問是在這個禮拜你才親口講出來的而且過去只有一批五批這個不知道那這部分因為那個所以以你來國際的請教會都可以問一些的大家來調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
30383.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
30399.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
隱匿的部分後續有相關刑責如果說罪重的話他可以判到多重?除了罰環還有沒有刑責?他那個這部分那個溯息調查就是違照文書嘛違照文書那個是五年以下沒有重大食安相關的嗎?重大食安是七年以下嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
30400.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
30404.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
所以我們先來簡報是用什麼樣的罪來去做起訴還是說什麼樣罪來去做這個偵辦這是一個違照數據 這是違照文書的一個問題所以現在還只是違照文書嗎那還有那個違反食安法的一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
30418.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
30445.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
所以其實本席今天提出來本席今天提出來是想要提醒我們法務部所以本席今天提出來是想要提醒我們法務部這是一個蠢打、假假的事件部長現在源頭有沒有查出來到底致癌物是什麼怎麼會產生這批致癌物超標的就是本便皮就是BAP這個東西啦那這個東西呢它可能在原料或者製成因為現在確認了沒那因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
30447.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
30471.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
他的黃豆的部分沒有全部我們都他都存留這個樣本但是我們抽的他還存留的黃豆黃豆我們現在驗出來是符合標準就是原料可是有些原料已經用完了我剛剛有兩句話說原料黃豆是一樣的每一批號有的超標有的不超標是不是製程上面有問題這個當然要檢調到兩個禮拜後還沒有辦法確認我來確認一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
30476.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
30489.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
這個是第二張他都可以刻意隱匿的他當然不會講實話他不會講實話所以我們要有科學方法去找出源頭嘛現在已經兩個禮拜過去了還沒有辦法找出源頭那我們更想問的是只有四月到六月嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
30491.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].end |
30518.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].text |
1月到3月有沒有可能也有債務只是我們不知道有沒有這個可能性我們把他的樣本也都留下來了就是更往前所以有這個可能性所以我們也會驗但是就是說如果他4到6月的樣本是有問題那前面的樣本有沒有問題我們也是打一個問號打一個問號也都把它扣起來再驗所以這一個風波可能更大來 那再請教部長 院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
30519.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].end |
30542.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].text |
你的簡報裡面有提到說要集體訴訟我們要針對這個部分要來提說相關的團體訴訟跟重寬退貨好那我想確認一下因為這本席昨天也很關心就是說全國國人可能都已經知道這有毒的毒油那還有另外一點更重要的是國小國中幼兒園的相關學童他們有可能也知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
30542.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].end |
30562.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].text |
那這可能會更好追查 為什麼因為你已經預防性下架但本席現在更要問的是我們已經確定了5000多公噸的有毒油有多少被學童吃下肚因為回收的只有1641公噸那其他可能都做成製品不對 院長你沒有回答到本席的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
30563.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].end |
30580.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].text |
回收1000多公噸是29批裡面的27000公噸但是有問題也是5000多公噸那我想問的是你現在預防性下架但是過去這三個月至少四月到六月有多少被學童吃下肚到目前有沒有掌握 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
30580.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].end |
30605.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].text |
可能流入市面的部分流入市面跟流入市面你的營養午餐跟營養午餐我們營養午餐都有營養午餐的這個登錄所以說其實你要查很好查哪一批號有問題有進入到校園裡面這絕對可以查出來啊你的學校都有資料來多少謝謝委員關心喔確實這是應該要譴責的來多少基隆市為例基隆市 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].start |
30606.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].end |
30629.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].text |
調查有11所學校讓委員讓我有一點時間講因為部長我只有剩40秒我只想問說現在有多少多少毒油被學童吃下肚有沒有這個數字我以基隆市為例因為全台22縣市你還在以基隆為例是什麼意思我要跟委員報告就是因為基隆市團上11所學校裡邊它有4所是屬於團上同時這個團上報院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].start |
30633.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].end |
30653.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].text |
兩個禮拜了你的食安報告你可以接受這樣的一個數字嗎到目前為止還不知道全台灣到底有多少學童吃到毒油完善有的是學校自己辦院長你會不會跟我一樣我們實在話講我這個真的撇開黨派你會不會跟我一樣也希望了解這樣的真相進一步未來可以代位求償861所學校 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].start |
30671.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].end |
30689.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].text |
好謝謝再請行政院議書面答覆請書面答覆好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
30698.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].end |
30717.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].text |
謝謝洪委員,謝謝卓院長,下一位請范雲委員質詢好,有請那個院長跟我們衛福部長,石部長請卓院長還有石部長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
30731.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].end |
30753.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].text |
院長好部長好我第一題想先請問部長那院長您就先坐著待會我在第二題再請您好請問您那我想請問部長因為院長都已經提到說這一次我們絕對是食安問題我們絕對不妥協那我們黨團其實每次在問到食安的時候都說食安不分黨派 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].start |
30753.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].end |
30768.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].text |
因為賴總統也有指示說這次一定要修法那希望就是我們跨黨派一起合作所以我想第一線一定是衛福部要有很明確的修法意見雖然院長在報告中已經講得蠻清楚幾個方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].start |
30771.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].end |
30787.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].text |
針對這個議題我其實是稍微去查了一下我認為在亞洲我們對日本的食安都是覺得做的相對是比我們更好所以希望能施法日本那我看到日本的部分跟我們台灣蠻不一樣的地方是我們台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].start |
30788.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].end |
30815.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].text |
似乎管制的是后来的产品可是日本是在前端对制造过程的管理是更清楚的包含它强制纳管所谓的HACCP危害分析重要管制点所以它对原料生产精炼到流通的全程追溯还有油脂制造商必须建立完整的品质管理系统透过业界的规范跟稽查要求业者 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
30816.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].end |
30832.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].text |
證明製程是安全的那臺灣我們雖然有把這個HACCP的字眼寫進去可是看起來這個外部的一個強制的力量比較弱那另外就是外部監管機制我發現日本有一個龐大 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
30833.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].end |
30855.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].text |
而且是地方分權的食品衛生監視員的體制甚至工廠會派駐專職的食品衛生管理者我看到派駐的時候我還沒有辦法查到到底是中央派駐還是地方政府派駐我們台灣我看到我們在第11條有衛生管理人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].start |
30855.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].end |
30877.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].text |
那看起來是就是等於是廠商或者生產者自己派所以我想請問我們部長我看到你的修法方向有這幾個從強化源頭管理強化製程管理還有強化三級食品安全管理機制包含增訂業者自主檢驗的頻率對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].start |
30879.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].end |
30903.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].text |
目前我們依法是上市上櫃才需要自設實驗室嘛那你增強到一定規模以上製造業要自設實驗室而且要經主管機關認證更強了一層然後實驗室要有及時通報義務否則實驗室等於就是也犯法對不對那還有一個第三方驗證機制針對異常的案件主動等等還有查場的頻率針對高風險業者擴大抽驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].start |
30908.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].end |
30926.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].text |
那我覺得這個修法方向看起來是不錯當然比現在強更多可是我想問兩個問題第一個像這個查場頻率中央跟地方的分工是什麼是地方的衛生局處要去查嗎那部長可不可以先回答我這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].start |
30926.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].end |
30945.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].text |
那另外就是跟日本的制度比起來你覺得跟日本的比起來我們這樣做能更嚴密嗎那不一樣的地方在哪裡謝謝委員給我們這麼多指教那第一個先回答委員的問題就是說茶廠的部分這個是屬於我們在三級品管裡面的第三級 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].start |
30946.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].end |
30971.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].text |
也就是在主管機關的實地集合那過去這個是由地方來執行那必要的時候才由中央跟地方來辦理聯合集合所以這個大概過去是由地方執行為主只不過我們對於這個頻率還有在這個集合的過程當中必須要執行的一些項目部分我們未來會把它訂得更清楚這是第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].start |
30972.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].end |
30994.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].text |
第二個跟日本的差異確實在這次食安事件發生之後我們也去查了才發現說日本並沒有訂出食用油的BAP標準它並沒有規範所以我們才會去深究說它到底是怎麼來處理所以它是著重在製程的部分的 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].start |
30995.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].end |
31021.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].text |
這個要求所以有他們也一樣有這個HACCP那麼台灣也有HACCP的要求只不過說我們比較重視的他的這個程序的控管但是呢對於確效就是他的有效性要強化然後也要授予的他這個在這個做確認證認證他HACCP的程序過程當中也要有檢驗報告的 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].start |
31024.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].end |
31047.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].text |
這個確認以及檢驗的要求那麼如果有異常也要直接通報給主管機關而不是只是給他改善建議打斷您因為我的時間有限我比較想了解的是譬如說以這次來講衣食安法如果地方就是沒有去查驗因為我們有看到它裡面的法條譬如說第五條是各級主管機關要主動查驗如果地方都沒有做的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].start |
31049.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].end |
31064.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].text |
新的您要修的法中央有可以懲處或者用什麼方式去要求地方都能夠去做查驗因為你中央跟地方依照日本的制度他就是要分工在未來的修法中怎麼處理這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].start |
31065.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].end |
31090.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].text |
我們有授權的法規我們透過授權的法規來把它理得更清楚我認為這個分工它既是分工合作也是要能夠全責分明我想對我們來講我看到個案但是我更關心的是制度的問題因為制度如果沒有辦法讓它修得更好我想我們經歷這麼多其實是一波又一波是更好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].start |
31090.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].end |
31107.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].text |
那這一次大家更關心的是就是上游的這個游的部分所以我希望部長可以針對中央跟地方的權責分工外部的監督機制茶廠的頻率這個部分能夠有明確的規範在新的食安法中 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].start |
31108.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].end |
31130.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].text |
另外一題因為時間的緣故我想剛剛鍾嘉賓委員也有提到如何協助中下游無辜廠商通路也希望院長可以提早考慮這個部分因為如果他們在這個過程中無辜受害其實未來也有可能有隱匿的動機所以應該要讓他無辜受害會得到 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].start |
31131.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].end |
31147.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].text |
譬如說罰款是不是能夠拿去賠償他們我希望這個部分衛福部也可以考慮能夠一併修在相關的法規中院長也可以考慮這一次通路其實做了協助退貨的這些事情這些部分能夠協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].start |
31149.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].end |
31178.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].text |
那最後那個部長可以請回那我想再跟院長問的就是不知道院長有沒有看到今天早上有媒體主要是我看到的是靖州刊他有調查報告那您應該也知道中聯郵址總經理他這邊做了一個蠻清楚的時間軸他是隱匿15天的背後黑手那我想跟院長提到的是我們民間團體也特別提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].start |
31179.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].end |
31201.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].text |
食安就是國安因為台灣有一半的民生用油跟軍方用油都是由中聯油脂那它背後是泰山福壽跟福茂那中聯油脂的最大股東是泰山企業泰山企業的最大股東是龍邦集團龍邦的大股東朱國榮不知道院長知不知道這個朱國榮的背景 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].start |
31203.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].end |
31218.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].text |
知道他其實是中共的先鋒隊在澳門殺人搶銀行後偷渡到台灣違反政交法還被通緝中那靖州刊的調查報告中聯的總經理就是朱國榮的人馬 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].start |
31219.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].end |
31243.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].text |
那當然這是媒體報導我不知道實情是如何那我想掌握台灣一半居民用油背後居然是這樣背景一個人物真的是非常令人憂心民間團體主要就是經濟民主聯合他有一個建議我在這邊也讓院長知道他認為財經部會未來處理企業併購議題也需要有國安意識 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].start |
31245.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].end |
31270.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].text |
請以三年前朱國榮入主泰山及中聯郵紙案為例審慎處理現在及將來所有涉及國安企業的併購案不知道院長有沒有可能針對我們經濟民主聯合他非常的關心各種涉及到主權跟國安的議題通常他們的發言都有做過一些基本的研究相關單位能不能夠研議評估檢討一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].start |
31273.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].end |
31299.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].text |
有沒有什麼規定我們是可以把這個疫情納入的呢中聯公司他這件事情發生他的原因追究的責任司法單位現在檢調單位正在做強力的這個追究當中那我一直認為這件事情是中央跟地方政府碰到一個遲言通報刻意隱匿不顧企業責任的一個企業所以我們是要 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].start |
31300.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].end |
31312.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].text |
共同來面對他所以這個報告裡面我從來沒有要把責任推給地方政府也推不得地方政府的權限能量還是有限中央一定是全力的跟地方來配合 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].start |
31313.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].end |
31335.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].text |
所以現在已經目前這個案子造成國人這麼大的不安我想我們就只有自己的面對但是我還是要表示對國人造成的這個不安產業界 業界 廠商這樣的焦慮我們當然是要心存非常大的自我的反省跟檢討這是我一向的態度所以剛剛很多的委員在詢問他們要把過去我們在認為應該加嚴的一個建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].start |
31352.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].end |
31362.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].text |
時間到,謝謝范委員,謝謝卓院長,下一位請盧憲毅委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].start |
31379.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].end |
31380.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].text |
主席有請院長請卓院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].start |
31396.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].end |
31420.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].text |
陸委員好本市先肯定第一線的食安人員在地方政府學校通路及相關部會在接貨通報後進行稽查下架及流向的追查可是大眾真正要的不是在每一次出事以後看政府每天公布多少項的產品多少家的業者多少工盾被回收民眾真正要的是有問題的產品能不能在離開工廠以前就被攔住 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].start |
31421.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].end |
31436.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].text |
這個重大缺失也就是從4月4號一直到7月7號全面下架這三個月期間呢我看到了幾項缺失啦比如說我們的檢驗的頻率太弱然後我們的追溯的流程或者說那個項目太 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].start |
31436.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].end |
31465.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].text |
太分散了然後通報的一個曖昧不明就是說可能不是定義的很清楚還有一些流樣的一個證據太薄弱所以就幾個可以改革的方向我跟院長來請教就是說衛福部能不能來以後可不可以來研究我們的產品放行的機制能不能在出貨前就能夠攔住我們有問題的批次而不是像現在這樣子一直在後面追著 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].start |
31465.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].end |
31481.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].text |
那為什麼這些標準只能在事件發生後才加嚴為什麼不能依照它的供應量製程及風險平時就做明確的分級所以我是覺得我們上次有在委員會討論過現在如果按照現在的那個量可能就已經超過120萬的 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].start |
31483.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].end |
31506.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].text |
桶的那個沙拉油的這個量那天天使用的包括學校我們軍隊的這些團散還有外食族我覺得他們的暴露量我覺得我剛才算了一下如果按照衛福部的這個油品的建議量而且國人常常超標的話我大概算三個月的話可能已經使用到5.7微克啦那我剛才算了5.7mg |
| transcript.whisperx[684].start |
31508.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].end |
31526.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].text |
那我覺得這個量雖然看起來是不多,可是就這個安全值是2的話,還是有明顯的超標,而且它是一個累積性的存在。那第二個就是,我們常常在講實案法其實已經很完備,可是常常我們都是在模糊地帶,所以我們說什麼叫業者發現,或者說應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].start |
31529.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].end |
31549.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].text |
因此停止製造加工販賣辦理回收這些我覺得應該要建立雙軌的制度比如說剛才我們說的24小時內先向主管機關通報之外呢來同步暫停相關批次的出貨保全留樣並通知直接的下游然後繼續負面或者是責任的認定然後來再繼續繼續進行以下的 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].start |
31552.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].end |
31565.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].text |
所謂的追究的責任第三個就是我們食藥署要建立可信的流樣制度來確保我們的樣品有具代表性常常我們看到了7月12號公開的說明說第三方檢驗獲得中聯 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].start |
31569.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].end |
31595.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].text |
檢體跟下游業者的自行檢驗結果不一致我想說民眾一定會想說這到底中間發生了什麼問題所以本市要求衛福部能夠建立大型食品製造業的一個獨立流量及證據鏈的制度第四個就是我們的追溯系統不能只讓政府看到卻讓消費者看不懂因為我們看到就是說有食藥署的有地方衛生局的有品牌公司的 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].start |
31595.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].end |
31619.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].text |
有各通路公告的可是我們要查的時候老人家根本就不知道怎麼查所以我是覺得說政府應該要知道對民眾來說這些資料的分散是多麼困擾所以應該是要來食安辦來統籌建立重大食安事件的單一資訊的界面至少應該統合這些批號啊成品的批號下游客戶下架跟回收的狀態 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].start |
31620.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].end |
31645.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].text |
讓民眾知道最後一個就是行政院應該把這些我們這次發生這個事件可以有一些可以廣告的改革看誰哪個單位或者說需要多少資源來完成這些步驟那我是覺得當然我們希望能夠提高檢驗力加快追溯擴大查緝另一方面可是也要交代第一線到底有沒有足夠的人力實驗室來複合這些資訊系統是否能夠及時的串聯 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].start |
31651.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].end |
31672.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].text |
謝謝委員 委員提出的這些建議也就是我們現在一方面在查清這個事情的原因之外最深刻的檢討檢討是整個行政作業上有沒有更完整的地方需要去補強另外就是法制的部分要如何讓它更完備所以我一直開始從源頭的管理 製程的管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].start |
31673.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].end |
31698.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].text |
查報的系統以及到所有的修法制度我們要全部做全面的盤整這是我們現在要檢討跟反省的地方過去當然有一些沒有注意到的地方是有但是那就是現行的機制所有的上中下游的廠商都照這個現有的機制在做事情發生了大家都會發現現有的機制不足以來維護現在整個食品的安全所以我們就全面來做檢討 謝謝委員的建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].start |
31699.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].end |
31712.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].text |
那我想追問一下96%的問題有的流向就是我們現在可能知道說大概是1000多噸的回收那些沒有回收的流向可以查得出來嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].start |
31714.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].end |
31736.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].text |
跟委員說我們分成兩塊一個就是那個5P已經有問題的油品的話那總計是5756.7公噸那目前回收的是1641.4公噸那麼至於其他的預防性下架的都已經預防性先下架了當我們逐批的去檢驗之後那麼再來做後續的這個處理這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].start |
31738.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].end |
31759.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].text |
還有就是學校的這個名單就是881所你們是用疑似的這個字眼那到底是有沒有確定這個部分能不能在短期之內讓國人知道會等我們這個一個禮拜內把這些檢驗都完成之後那麼就可以確定哪一些是合格的產品哪一些是這個不能夠再上架 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].start |
31760.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].end |
31781.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].text |
那根據監察院在109年7月29號的報告他是針對106年審計部的一個總預算報告去查施品雲的一個缺失那我看施品雲那時候監察院的報告就已經很詳實甚至很像已經預告這件事情會發生我念一下就是他說 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].start |
31782.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].end |
31802.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].text |
經過一年多的調查發現食品雲欠缺絕大多數食品業者的資訊且該系統無法發揮預警的效能等諸多缺失監察院的建議就是說希望能夠有衛福部那時候的環保署經濟部及教育部來共同檢討改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].start |
31802.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].end |
31811.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].text |
也就是說這個報告可能靜靜躺在那邊六年了可是各個相關部會其實沒有做相對的因應才會造成今天有這樣的結果你覺得呢部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].start |
31813.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].end |
31841.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].text |
跟委員說明其實在這段期間我們有在持續的精進包含逐步的去公告哪些業者需要用電子發票上傳這樣會讓我們登錄的時候不需要靠人工登錄只要透過電子發票就可以讓我們的追蹤溯源系統更完整那我們是逐步逐步在擴大這個產業類別跟它的規模所以這個我們會持續的去強化讓這個整個追蹤溯源會更詳實跟及時 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].start |
31844.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].end |
31869.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].text |
剛剛提到HACCP的部分當然這是一個日本比較優秀的經驗你說台灣也有類似這樣子的一個制度不過我們有些比較可以要制度化的一個建議就是說我們要逐批驗收批次個可試化流氧機和一場升級的一個實現我是覺得說在這個HACCP的這個部分我們這方面做得不夠甚至在美國做得比我們更好的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].start |
31870.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].end |
31885.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].text |
比如說像書面的食品安全計畫還有他一些一定要要求一些數據化的一個資料的呈現跟留存我是覺得這個部分我們是沒有跟上所以希望部長能夠朝這個方向來前進 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].start |
31886.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].end |
31899.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].text |
我們HACCP的外部認證的集合要求是寫在我們食安法第8條那這一次我們在修法的時候呢也會去修訂這個食安法第8條去強化這個外部第三方驗證機構 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].start |
31901.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].end |
31921.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].text |
它的這個法律地位那剛剛這個委員提到的HACCP的查核的過程當中包含這些樣本的採樣我們有規範的就是原料半成品跟成品其實都有一些要求流樣的部分搭配HACCP要去做確效 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].start |
31922.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].end |
31938.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].text |
提到那個油品業者都是類似財團上次有講到他們的規模大概都是幾百億以上所以可能是不是就造成他們沒有辦法接受政府的監督或者說規避政府的監督有意規避政府的監督所以他們在6月15號其實就已經有評管會議去 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].start |
31940.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].end |
31968.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].text |
去顯示說他們確實都有異常可是一直要延後再兩週再告訴大家我是覺得說這個部分不要因為他們是財團政府就沒有辦法去介入他們這個檢驗的所謂的異常的那個因為這個事件我們一定要加強對這些業者的監督包括罰款的這個提升另外就是在這個檢調方面的調查未來如果這個食安的問題國人這樣被受害這麼深 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].start |
31969.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].end |
31995.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].text |
行者是不是夠我們以後都要做全面的修法今天有一個觀光的雜誌報導台灣是美食之都他說甚至是24小時都在吃這樣的一個字句在讚美台灣可是就相對於今天這樣的一個質詢或是狀態報告我是覺得政府還是需要跟國人道歉我們至少吃了三個月的食用毒油 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].start |
31996.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].end |
32009.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].text |
可以嗎院長就過去我們在這個法治上的不完備這點我們一定要深切的好謝謝盧委員謝謝卓院長接下來請李坤成委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].start |
32029.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].end |
32037.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].text |
好 謝謝主席我們請行政院左院長好 請左院長備詢然後這個石部長也一起陪同石部長請備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].start |
32052.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].end |
32065.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].text |
6月30號衛福部是接到中聯郵的這個通報那粉餅餅有出現超標的問題那7月1號之後呢我們就開始跟台中市的衛生局展開調查那其實最早時間在5月13號啦5月13號如果南橋他檢驗出來確定有問題馬上通報的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].start |
32071.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].end |
32091.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].text |
我們就可以減少很多的時間至少提早一個半月的時間來做這個調查問題也不會這麼多的出去所以5月13號是一個關鍵點另外一個關鍵點是在6月15號6月15號是中聯找了這三家福壽、福茂、泰山這三家一起開的所謂的一個平保的會議這個平保會議後來調查出來是所謂的蓋牌會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].start |
32095.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].end |
32114.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].text |
他把所有有問題的應該要停止製造的這個有問題的結果呢他們是不是這個下了一個所謂的不公開不停線繼續復檢直到真的確定只爆不出火之後然後呢才往上通報報給這個衛福部這兩個時間點能不能請這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].start |
32119.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].end |
32141.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].text |
院長來說明一下我們當時當然知道就是七月之後我們當然知道六月十五號這三家開了這麼一個會議那這個部分應該先檢調再做內容的調查我們沒有辦法去問到他但我認為我問到他就是有人問到行政上去調查依照他們現在既然會延遲通報刻意隱匿大概也不會跟我們講實話 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].start |
32142.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].end |
32167.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].text |
但是我們希望他跟檢調的調查當中一定要據實來說所以我剛剛說我們要求他1億6520萬的罰款他繳了並不是說我認為他很好是我們今天他如果不繳很多的委員又認為行政院你看公權力沒有辦法張揚沒有辦法把公權力執行下來所以我們說他繳了至少這個部分他先履行他的責任義務 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].start |
32169.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].end |
32197.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].text |
至於檢調調查的方面包括6月15號這個會議是不是真如同今天媒體所說的這麼惡劣真的是在蓋牌甚至在擴大它把這個它的產品銷售出去這檢調調查會一定會調查的水落石出因為時間點太過巧合了嘛在6月24號的時候中聯郵要舉行這一個股東會然後呢5、6月也剛好是這三家泰山福壽福茂在舉行這一個股東會議那剛好這段時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].start |
32198.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].end |
32218.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].text |
他們都隱匿不報結果讓不論是中央或是地方大概少了一個半月的時間來做這個準備也讓有這個問題的油繼續流入市面我再請教一下我們是從7月1號之後開始去追查但是這幾天我自己的感覺 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].start |
32218.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].end |
32240.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].text |
就是媒體上面一直會在報說哪一天這個哪一天的油又出現問題了哪一天哪一個批號又出現問題了我簡單來講光是這幾天啊7月7號泰山有通報有問題7月9號呢南峽通報又有一批有問題7月12號呢福碩又通報又有一個批號有問題現在總共有五個批號有問題那請教一下院長啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].start |
32241.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].end |
32262.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].text |
因為這個連環報會讓大家覺得說那到底哪一天才能這個有問題的油才能夠全部檢查出來到底哪時候我們才能確定說所有的這個4月到6號的這個4月到6月所生產的油確定是沒有問題了不然是一報再報的話對於大家的這一個對於食安會影響是非常的大 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].start |
32263.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].end |
32270.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].text |
所以我們在7月1號剛剛委員說過了就要協同台中市政府去查了之後要求7月3號的中午12點 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].start |
32272.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].end |
32294.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].text |
上游這個全部要下架了 全部要下架 第一層就下架了可是現在也是七月中旬 不停地又有這樣爆出來到七月六號的時候 我們又要求下一層的還有這個當時是401 後來444的產品也要預防性下架但到七月七號 它爆發第二批有問題的我們認為這應該不是單一的事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].start |
32297.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].end |
32315.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].text |
就是一個極惡性的案件所以我們在7月7號爆發之後7月9號立即在行政院院會通令就全部要做更強硬的行動7月12號又有扶送又再通報那個時候已經都要下架了那所以說現在有通報的都已經沒有在市面上了嗎對 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].start |
32316.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].end |
32340.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].text |
確定嗎4到6月但是他的所有下游的產品咧比如說7月7號通報的是5月12號製造的7月9號通報的是5月10號所以跨了4、5、2月嘛所以我們當時候院長才會宣布4到6月都全面下架所以我們現在是逐一去檢驗那所有有問題的你們說一週內可以全部檢驗出來嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].start |
32343.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].end |
32367.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].text |
現在我們有的就還有21P的油然後有52個 整體加上321個這個下油的產品我們會一起驗那我是說我剛剛看報告是一個禮拜四內全部的油有沒有問題都知道了就等於剩下的另外21P號是不是所以有一個確定的時間點嘛下週四在哪的時候 下禮拜幾今天禮拜二 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].start |
32369.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].end |
32391.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].text |
我們是昨天宣布的所以下禮拜一是幾時間下禮拜一之前所以就不要再發生就是說這個市面上又有什麼未爆彈出來又有說哪個票有問題哪個票有問題就不會下禮拜一之後就不會有這種新聞了嗎如果再有業者驗出的話其實我們都已經下架了因為四到六月都下架了都預防性下架了 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].start |
32392.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].end |
32406.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].text |
對啊 不然這樣子會有一種民眾會覺得說怎麼好像這個使用油問題連環報那實際上都是4月到6月這些油問題的油但是呢 因為你們還沒有完全檢驗出來所以這幾天可能還會陸續有這些新聞出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].start |
32407.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].end |
32414.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].text |
但是都已經下架了4到6月份都下架了好 那現在就是說這一個問一下有關這個消費者權益的問題那現在有關消費者他有消費者啟動團體訴訟了嗎或是說消費者就這個問題由的這一個提起這個訴訟的一個數量有多少你們有掌握嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].start |
32428.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].end |
32449.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].text |
行政院的消保處會委託民間的消費者的團體比方說消基會等等現在有兩個團體正在接下當中他們也要透過內部的程序消基會跟台消會消費者保護協會台灣消費者保護協會他們也有這個意願大家經過內部他們的程序他們有這樣的意願那如果這樣他們就能夠承接委託給他們來進行團體訴訟 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].start |
32451.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].end |
32462.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].text |
但是目前我們接受到一些爭議的事件到昨天看是有三十幾件三十幾件民眾就是說要打這個問題有訴訟有三十幾件申訴有三十幾件現在還沒有到整理訴訟的事件可能數字會持續的變化我這個是昨天在開會之後的一個數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].start |
32476.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].end |
32488.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].text |
那請問一下這個除了這個消費者之外還有另外一群是這個他們算是因為上游違法問題而受害的這些廠商那他們權益怎麼受到保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].start |
32491.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].end |
32517.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].text |
這剛剛有委員提到我們是不是要有一個風險管理的基金的方式但是現在我們是沒有這樣的一個機制來處理這些問題現在的食安基金只能墮銷團體訴訟的費用他跟這些廠商是沒有關聯性的那這些廠商他只能再去跟這些他的上游不管是中聯或是三家再去跟他們在做球場目前的機制是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].start |
32518.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].end |
32546.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].text |
目前其實是這樣 但是廠商如果像這幾家福壽他們這個也有隱匿通報的這個行為 遲延通報的行為他們也要負起責任 所以地方政府也都可以罰款有一些是比如說像南橋他自己也延誤了通報但是在下面的還有一些廠商 更下游的還有一些廠商所以他們就是只能目前就是他們向他們的上游提起申訴就對了 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].start |
32547.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].end |
32561.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].text |
因為他們也不是個人他們是一個法人或是公司團體他們應該循其他的法律途徑就不適合用團體訴訟但是我們會我們可以從法律請律師的團體來協助他們做這樣的權力的救濟 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].start |
32563.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].end |
32584.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].text |
剛剛我有聽到有委員在問我們這個食品雲在這次的問題的事件當中看起來是沒有發揮一個功效的就是說系統它沒有辦法及時聯動然後產品的流向跟下架的清點還是要依賴業者自主通報還有我們的衛生局人工追查 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].start |
32584.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].end |
32602.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].text |
那你說要這個業者自主通報那現在業者就跟你延遲通報啦然後你說要依照人工稽查哇 那這個系統沒辦法去連線沒辦法及時連線我們有數百家的下游業者還有這麼多的產品受到影響那請問一下我們這十坪在這一次的問題當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].start |
32603.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].end |
32631.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].text |
一點作用都沒有嗎這也是我們現在必須深陷檢討一個數位的治理是建立在理性的機制上面我們花了十幾億耶對 是建立在理性的機制但如果真的碰到這套廠商世俗引力我們也真的沒有辦法發現所以未來如何將它把它串接得更嚴密讓它必須盡它的義務盡它的責任在這個數位裡面所以我們在所以它如果不報上去你拿它也沒辦法啊對 我們強化就強化我們的數位治理 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].start |
32631.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].end |
32653.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].text |
這方面一定要用制度來改變我有看到院長有提到這一塊但是我想要問院長就是說你的強化數位之餘在這個食品雲這個項目當中要怎麼去做處理跟委員說明我們過去的食品雲是著重在產品的流向的追蹤原料從哪裡來然後下游廠商 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].start |
32667.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].end |
32674.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].text |
時間到,我們謝謝李委員謝謝李委員,謝謝左院長接下來請林德福委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].start |
32710.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].end |
32720.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].text |
謝謝大會主席江副院長還有卓院長議會各部會首長是不是請卓院長跟石部長請卓院長石部長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].start |
32731.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].end |
32757.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].text |
評委長你好我想因為民進黨執政10年這個食安危機不斷那食安五環屢屢破功像分埔泥毒雞蛋開放萊豬還有核災區的食品解禁包括豬肉丹羊肉麥過期的這些雞蛋蘇丹紅辣椒粉放寬 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].start |
32758.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].end |
32777.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].text |
花芽的這些馬鈴薯檢查到現在的整個致癌遊那過去民進黨在野的時候面對食安的議題這個往往要求這個零檢出做不好就下台取得政權賀物 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].start |
32778.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].end |
32800.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].text |
那民進黨標準一直在改法甲灣就是民進黨的標籤那為何不說中聯郵址疑似在檢體上造假要求新批號下架那這個行政院應先完整交代事件的整個來龍去脈 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].start |
32802.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].end |
32812.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].text |
在討論重新上架的原則避免政策反顧來影響民眾對食品安全的信任院長你有什麼看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].start |
32812.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].end |
32839.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].text |
沒有錯我們剛剛在報告裡面就提到了現在是預防性下架所謂預防性下架就是他將來一定的條件之後他可以恢復上架但這個條件他必須要檢驗合格提出合格的證明經過第三方的驗證還要經過主管機關的同意那現在都還不到那個程度現在我們要做的是把他21批的油品全部檢驗證明4到6月的油品除了那5批之外 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].start |
32840.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].end |
32853.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].text |
不會再衍生其他的問題同時下游的這些產品我們也要做一些全面的盤點現在有321項也要做全面的盤點這個全部建立下來沒有問題了那主管機關才會進到要不要考慮的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].start |
32854.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].end |
32871.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].text |
因為食品安全沒有意識形態也不分草野都希望國人吃得健康那全國民眾也期待中央與地方的政府來共同合作替民眾好好的把關整個食品的安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].start |
32871.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].end |
32887.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].text |
那此次這個中聯油脂的問題有影響全國各縣市究竟是原料出的問題還是整個製程出的問題還是廠商整個自主檢驗報告造假這麼多 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].start |
32889.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].end |
32916.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].text |
多天了已經過去了那國人始終無法得到真相此外這個問題產品下架政策反覆衛福部原本還只打算讓問題由這個含量百分之二十以上的這些產品下架結果外界大家砲轟以後才改為全面下架因為食品安全真的是不分黨派食安漏洞這個檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].start |
32919.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].end |
32939.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].text |
這是衛福部的責任不要甩鍋給地方究竟該救責的還是要救責那個石副長你有什麼看法跟委員說明我們在第一課就讓油品直接就先下架問題油品其實已經下架談的是這個油的下一層的加工食品 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].start |
32939.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].end |
32954.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].text |
所以加工食品其實它的樣態是非常非常多有的用的量是很少所以按照我們原先的下架階層原則就是第一層的油品下架那麼加工食品並沒有所以才會在下架完之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].start |
32955.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].end |
32977.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].text |
那麼在7月4號再召開了專家會議去討論到這個民眾對民眾的健康風險之後才做出那個您所謂的20%這個下架的這個這個新的修正的這個下架原則的修訂所以是這樣一步一步來但是後面我們有新的市政發現說這個已經不是單批的問題可能是整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].start |
32979.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].end |
32998.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].text |
這個製程上的不穩定可能是多批系統性的問題才會又進步到全面性的預防性下降所以他都是我們不斷的在快速的積極的去了解這個背後的問題然後趕快的做出回應來保障國人的這個健康因為過去 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].start |
33001.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].end |
33026.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].text |
為強化整個食安財政部跟衛福部都有跨部會的合作然後透過電子花票與營業稅競銷的這些項的明細來落實商品溯源追蹤的一個管理那除了可以這個黃鍍、桃肉稅也能掌握整個食品供應鏈的流向以確保整個民眾消費的權益 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].start |
33027.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].end |
33049.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].text |
因為外界質疑次之十億建立的食品雲包括食品原料追溯系統非追不可 未發揮它的功能不僅累翻了公務員 也恐導致整個餘地的食品無法及時攔截 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].start |
33052.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].end |
33066.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].text |
針對中年油脂問題油的事件上中下游產品的流向本席我是希望說這個行政院藉此事件重新來審視將政府的大數據透過 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].start |
33068.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].end |
33083.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].text |
AI的技術來整合透過AI進行整個資料標準化資料整合異常分析那預警查詢達到食品安全溯源的政策目的院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].start |
33085.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].end |
33109.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].text |
你有沒有想法?就未來我們會強化數位的治理因為過去過去確實財政部的電子花票有跟衛福部有連結而且溯源追溯每一個環節都清清楚楚的而且擺在眼前就是你們一定要合作才有辦法把那些上下游 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].start |
33110.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].end |
33138.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].text |
把它整理得清清楚楚我們會馬上進行因為電子花票是一個很好可以追溯給國內民的交代院長你這樣講就對了為什麼一定要馬上進行而且刻不容緩因為上下游啊你要是說沒有用電子花票去追溯你任何它只要有進貨它就是有電子花票嘛那溯源就是這樣追因為我親眼看到啊兩位那個院長跟部長我跟你們講 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].start |
33139.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].end |
33157.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].text |
我親眼看到昨天就是前面有一部車子結果我看他停在一個賣肉丸跟賣藕粿的前面結果我看他搬了三箱我看那個就是油結果整個所有桶子三桶都沒有貼標籤 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].start |
33160.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].end |
33181.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].text |
三桶喔 因為那個裡面他賣肉丸就是要整桶的油進去然後在裡面燒那包括芋頭都一樣結果三桶我看都連外面的標籤什麼都沒有我認為那個就是有問題的油但是他一樣照送那個店家照拿 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].start |
33183.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].end |
33204.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].text |
像這個問題我認為還是要追溯委員會後告訴我們是在哪裡我們督導地方政府,責任地方政府加強採取我認為這個很重要你們也要通知所有這些因為全國有很多的警察同仁只要出去有在路上巡看到他這個車子裡面一桶一桶的 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].start |
33205.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].end |
33219.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].text |
那個就是油那甚至於他走的店家就是賣食品的嘛你叫他夜市太多了然後他一桶一桶進去都沒有貼標籤啦我就直接打個問號說這個一定啊就是那些有問題的油 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].start |
33221.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].end |
33239.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].text |
不能讓他再這樣留下去因為食安問題每個人你只要家裡大大小小吃學校的小朋友都會知道我是希望說這個一定要去重視因為此次的中年問題影響到全國許多學校營養午餐 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].start |
33240.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].end |
33268.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].text |
當然我們這個地區像永和也有很多學校受到影響尤其這些學童還沒有成年身體處於發育的階段那家長也擔心學童健康會有後遺症為了維護學童健康請問衛福部與教育部溯源追溯處理告一段落後後續會有哪些措施讓家長能夠安心有沒有想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].start |
33270.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].end |
33291.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].text |
跟委員說明因為教育部已經有建立它的那個實材追蹤系統了所以我們一旦有發現任何的疑慮我們就會有跨部會的合作那麼像這一次也是一樣我們第一時間就把這個資訊提供給教育部讓教育部可以馬上去清查了解有哪一些學校那麼受到影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].start |
33291.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].end |
33314.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].text |
本席是希望說此次的主管機關對廠商的罰款跟廠商未來提出的補償方案要有一定比例用在受到此次中年問題由影響的學生的身上對於此次中年油自然油罰款跟補償的方案莊院長您有沒有想法對不起 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].start |
33317.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].end |
33336.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].text |
就是這一次啊這些問題由你給學生吃到了最起碼你未來這些學生身上怎麼去補償他們怎麼這個剛剛我們我說過因為現在在暑假期間並沒有學生學生的營養午餐現在都吃了啦對但我要求教育部通靈各學好 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].start |
33346.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].end |
33370.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].text |
謝謝林委員,謝謝卓院長,接下來請莊銳雄委員質詢謝謝主席,有請我們行政院卓院長,還有衛福部石崇良市部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].start |
33379.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].end |
33406.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].text |
莊委員好院長還有部長我看今天的整個食安的一個專報這樣聽院長跟部長其實對這一次的食安的一個事件態度非常誠懇把所有的來龍的一個去脈像立法院這邊在這一次的報告還有在巡打的過程裡面一一的去把它說明的一個清楚但我在這個地方要請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].start |
33408.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].end |
33411.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].text |
跟委員報告,我們現在就是在做 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].start |
33429.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].end |
33457.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].text |
因為本身最末端的加工食品是沒有檢驗標準的所以要回到它的上游就是用的油品的安全所以我們現在就是針對它上游的所有用的油品321項跟21批我們都會逐批檢驗確認之後那我們就三個原則分源分項一項一項來逐批去確認完之後上下游比對我的意思就是說要多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].start |
33459.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].end |
33487.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].text |
我跟院長我為什麼特別提醒還跟部長我為什麼要來問這個問題這一次其實我們在短短的一個禮拜以內我們政府機關對於這些下架我們標準我們也更動了好幾次膝蓋嘛那當然對於這些下游廠商來講的話他產生了也很大的不方便政府站在政府保障國人食品的健康安全我相信你這些下游甚至這些通路商大家都要去遵守 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].start |
33488.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].end |
33517.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].text |
那這個食安那當然是最重大的保障國人健康最重大的事情但是你說這這麼下游的廠商要求為無辜的人或是說一些在通路上的下架清點完了一批一批要下來了我們規則把它變來變去確實也搞得他們人仰馬翻但是呢我們政府或者立法會在這個地方在質詢要求政府為人民的健康把關的時候我們也必須要 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].start |
33518.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].end |
33533.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].text |
注意到一點就是說整個經濟的秩序這個部分過度的一個衝擊政府的應變的角度其實還要再加快你東西什麼時候讓它再上架 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].start |
33534.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].end |
33563.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].text |
讓這些下游廠商可以恢復他原來的經濟的一個交易的一個秩序啊我不知道我們現在原則說完了你是不是可以簡單整個給小的大眾知道說差不多很快會有多快或者說等一下過一陣子又講說又爆發的很多了爆發了沒話講啊你還是要去緊急做應變啊但是對於這一些這一陣子造成整個經濟的交易秩序產生重大影響的人你要怎麼處理要怎麼趕快讓他恢復秩序 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].start |
33563.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].end |
33588.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].text |
我們的檢驗會加快啦雖然是說一星期 但是可能會比較快完成所以如果能夠快速完成 確認這個產品是合格合規我們就會逐批來把它公佈好 我希望院長我們這個要盡快我請我們法務部 政務部長也一起上來一下啦在這一次 法務部長所說的現在有問題的產品下架了 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].start |
33589.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].end |
33616.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].text |
將來如果恢復到一個程序都完備了檢驗都完備了 主管居然同意了再上來的這個產品一定是安全的我們必須要把握到這個原則我們這很快啦院長你聽到沒有 部長我在上禮拜的時候我就給你們示警我說其實碰到假日的時候政府有時候會等到禮拜一再來做處理嘛我第一個時間我看這一批致癌的 疑慮的這個油 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].start |
33618.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].end |
33638.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].text |
因為中聯折出來 這盤 西圍折出來了8號到10號開始出貨了那你現在藍橋 現在台北市政府給你發三百萬就說你沒通報嘛那你在5月10號知道 泰山5月12號知道部長要特別留意啊我都對這些時間序 我都畫上很多的問號啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].start |
33640.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].end |
33665.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].text |
蘭蕎你知道嗎 你檢查算 理論上來講如果我是蘭蕎的話 我第一個知道 我一定打電話給福壽我一定去痛罵他 你給我的東西 為什麼有自來的食品對不對 這樣不知道合理那個福壽知道以後 他第一個想法一定是什麼一定打電話給他幹掉中聯的啊你是給我營利 你為什麼生產出這種東西 這樣才合理嘛同樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].start |
33667.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].end |
33695.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].text |
中聯的三大股東你福壽知道以後你泰山哪有可能不知道你福茂哪有可能不知道所以我第一時間就跟你講說把中聯的手柄交來 品管的交來藍橋的交來 你就知道人家在拼什麼了所以這些時間序我都認為未必是真的啦這件事情可惡在什麼地方可惡在我們這三級品管裡面第一級的品管我們第一級說要自主來做一個管理管理出來之後 好好都知道 把你隱匿 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].start |
33697.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].end |
33714.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].text |
你看說到6月10號 我不曉得報宅披露了6月10號召開的一個會議裡面知道了 6月15號 這個屬實啊嘛這個如果去由法院或者檢方去公開 這也不會違反偵查不公開啊適度的對外說明本來就是應該啊 但重點本席就認為說這個可惡啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].start |
33717.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].end |
33740.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].text |
他知道以後他第一個時間不是說趕快下架趕快回收啊他知道以後第一件事情就是說先蓋起來繼續賣繼續出貨把倉庫的全部賣掉然後繼續再生產 天啊 敢到這樣啊所以 我覺得以後這樣這一種速度可以再更快那第二 我不知道伯父你的看法如何伯父 你不覺得嗎的確是那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].start |
33743.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].end |
33749.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].text |
我們是在檢方是在6月30號是一個通報嘛通報7月1號監報那7月2號是有起開那個專案的一個會議那這個7月6號是直接約談的跟調資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].start |
33758.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].end |
33773.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].text |
因為我們要調資料跟約談這部分因為必須要衛福部來協助我們因為這個牽扯到很專業的一個食安的一個知識的一個問題所以你不覺得第一個地方衛生局給他種法剛好而已嗎你不覺得衛福部給他種法一一多剛好而已嗎沒錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].start |
33774.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].end |
33803.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].text |
那這個可惡啊人家這樣的確是它是有蓋牌因為它那個有製造是要不通報不下架還出貨如果有出貨的行為那的確是一個蓋牌的行為因為到6月15號這部分可以整個一個顯示是都是知道的所以才開一個品管的會議這個涉嫌隱匿還是陰媚證據就像這種第二個我也認為院長你再考慮看看比如說我們到了第二級品管我們現在就是業者他知道了以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].start |
33804.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].end |
33822.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].text |
他不告訴你 不告訴你 到最後也只是罰錢而已那第二集是說 我第三方公正機關他也委託了 你像南橋也好 泰山也好我們去委託第三方公正機構出來以後出來 出來也是一樣 他去統治他去統治泰山 統治福壽 統治南橋他就是沒有通知你主管機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].start |
33828.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].end |
33836.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].text |
那我們是不是整個食安法的修訂裡面這個部分也要強制科與連第三方機構他都應該有強化通知的一個義務 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].start |
33838.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].end |
33861.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].text |
對,委員說了很多,我們現在的草案就是朝這個方向第三方的檢驗機構跟認證機構要主動通報他有強制性通報第三項又來了,政府黨請回第三項又來了第三項就是說,我們政府第一級通報產生問題,第二個產生問題那你說好,那我們強制他通報那第三個,政府是有人來通報我才會知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].start |
33863.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].end |
33883.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].text |
我才會知道 沒有人告訴你 完全不知道啊那有沒有可能我們整個食安法政府在制定一個機制連第三方的公正機構你有驗出來的時候你強制通報地方衛生局的時候或者你本來你平常這些檢驗的上傳嘛 有一個平台嘛 給你食藥署嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].start |
33884.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].end |
33909.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].text |
英國是他們設計的一個食品安全局嘛或者食品安全委員會嘛我們現在叫食藥署我們還沒有獨立一個機關出來假設有辦法去成立一個獨立的食品安全局也很好但是至少建物沒蛋嘛那賣蛋嘛平常他只要有檢驗的強制全部都上傳至少你說我可能沒有那麼多人力但至少有一個威嚇作用誰亂傳你 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].start |
33912.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].end |
33940.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].text |
有可能你這個東西是有受到污染的影響整個食品安全的老百姓的健康吃下去不行的至少他不敢偽造他會有一個威嚇的一個作用萬福達部長你的看法在這一次我們的精進作為也包含這一段就是把第一二級的檢驗資料也串接起來讓第三級的就是後市場集合的部分主管機關 地方主管機關可以提早有預警可以強化 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].start |
33940.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].end |
33948.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].text |
或增加這個抽茶的或者是茶廠的頻率所以這個我們在這一次這個要再想一下我存30秒 請停一下我請農業部長開來 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].start |
33962.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].end |
33983.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].text |
結果沒有,我們從部長表演一下就不行了,我也是很歡樂的就是說,你這個現在喔,肚脯、肚渣,肚渣你就知道做治療了嗎?做治療應用到了,你們現在會增加供給嘛,但本身很擔心啦,治療棄給的問題啦,或者說這些肚脯裡面,它也有這些殘留物,我們的滴、雞... |
| transcript.whisperx[791].start |
34018.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].end |
34021.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].text |
好,謝謝莊委員、謝謝卓院長接下來請林倩琦委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].start |
34045.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].end |
34048.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].text |
好謝謝主席我這邊先請我們衛福部時務長請時務長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].start |
34064.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].end |
34084.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].text |
我想這一次中聯的致癌遊引發這麼大的震盪我們對於過去整個流程跟它的現狀的討論也蠻多的但是本席今天要先針對目前的現狀跟未來我們該如何因應還有對原鄉的一個關心 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].start |
34085.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].end |
34102.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].text |
這邊來跟你們就教所以依照我們目前是要數目前公布的資訊那本案的受影響的業者大概達到257家那你們要求第一層的產品下架那麼也針對使用影響大豆沙拉油製成的原型油品 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].start |
34103.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].end |
34125.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].text |
還有調和油還有使用比例達一定程度的加工產品就擴大的預防性下降目前為止回收量大概有144公噸據本席這邊了解這樣子的回收率還沒有到4%也就是說是不是大部分的油品究竟流向何處至少我這邊的資訊好像並不是太清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].start |
34126.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].end |
34148.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].text |
但是就在昨天衛福部已經開始在研議來針對受影響產品重新上架的可能性本席剛才也聽到莊委員有在關心經濟秩序上的問題可是本席這邊還是對健康的議題相對很關注所以我不能理解的是衛福部你們沒有公布第三方認證實驗室檢驗中聯 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].start |
34153.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].end |
34167.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].text |
這個29批存留的有品樣本的報告那您對外說是因為中聯跟泰山南橋等下游檢驗的這個結果不一樣那麼抽樣的過程可能會造假那麼但是這樣子問題由的這個完整流向還沒有公佈 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].start |
34168.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].end |
34185.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].text |
那麼回收的比例也偏低所以究竟還有多少產品還在市場那第二個部分是那麼有多少民眾已經在使用了那這些問題都還沒有答案那你們就在思考要恢復上架除了剛才有委員關心的這邊的經濟秩序的問題你們是不是應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].start |
34188.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].end |
34203.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].text |
要針對我們國民的健康把它當成第一要務那沒有國民的健康我想其他的一些經濟的運作可能都還是會受到很大的衝擊所以本席這邊請教兩個問題也就是說你們是不是目前已經掌握本案 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].start |
34204.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].end |
34220.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].text |
污染的原因還有完整的流向跟市場回收的一個情形那你們昨天在討論重新上架的依據是什麼那有符合食品安全的風險管理的這個原則嗎那第二個部分是那麼任何恢復上架的決定應該要在四個前提下 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].start |
34221.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].end |
34249.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].text |
第一個是污染原因應該要完全查明第二個部分是產品的流向你們要完整的掌握第三是市場的風險應該要充分的排除最後檢驗的結果要證明安全無虞您在上面本席所關心的四項條件如果還沒有完成全本席對於你們向社會大眾來釋放可以恢復上架的訊號這個部分是不是會影響到把關人民的健康 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].start |
34250.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].end |
34267.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].text |
那這個部分是不是可以請您這邊說明一下跟委員更新一下最新的資訊我們在7月10號已經完成所有那麼中聯在4到6月之間那麼所出貨的26批所有的這個郵品那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].start |
34268.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].end |
34277.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].text |
第一層跟第二層的相關製品也都預防性下架了這是第一個而至於目前有確認5批有問題的中聯的油品那麼據統計是5750 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].start |
34285.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].end |
34301.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].text |
對 這個是你目前已經有的資訊嘛那可是本行這邊關心的是那汙染源的原因呢還有產品的流向本行關心的是你們已經有掌握的當然你們就掌握了可是你沒有掌握的跟民眾的健康的相對關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].start |
34303.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].end |
34317.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].text |
所以現在在討論的就是剩下的因為有5批已經確認是有問題所以他就是下架了也早就下架了對 這個是下架的那你們沒有掌握的另外有21批是被預防性下架那我們現在在處理的是要去確認這21批 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].start |
34320.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].end |
34331.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].text |
之前沒有任何通報有問題的油品我們要逐一逐批分項它涉及到321項產品這個應該基本上是衛福部部長你們在這邊掌握所有的資訊要去做相關的處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].start |
34336.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].end |
34365.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].text |
但是本席還是提醒因為時間有限那麼你們那個污染源究竟有沒有查明因為我相信你這中間在講說你原先釋放的這個訊息其實還有一些檢驗上不合的這個地方你們也還在釐清所以對於產品流向的掌握還有本席剛才所講的市場的風險的一個排除最後檢驗要無虞這四項本席在這邊強烈的建議你這四項要先釐清有很清楚的掌握之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].start |
34366.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].end |
34393.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].text |
再去處理所謂要重新上架的這個問題也就是說本席希望真相能夠很清楚的釐清之後才有產品在上架的一個問題好不好跟委員說明我們一定非常嚴謹的去確認產品的安全才有可能上架所以只要有疑慮的產品絕對不會上架好 謝謝部長那接下來因為我關心教育的這個部分那我們就請鄭部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].start |
34397.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].end |
34400.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].text |
我想大家也都非常關心營養午餐的問題部長好委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].start |
34410.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].end |
34428.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].text |
那當然這個還是跟食藥署有點關係只是說那個大家對於營養午餐的這個關心那其實雖然剛才院長這邊有提到那目前因為放假期間那營養午餐可能在這個部分的考量是針對先前的一個資訊跟派選以後的一個把關 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].start |
34429.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].end |
34445.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].text |
但是很重要一點這次影響的業者很多包括問題油品大量都是用18公升業務用桶的形式來流通這就是團善中央廚房跟餐飲業者用的油品型態它可能已經進入了營養午餐的供應鏈 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].start |
34446.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].end |
34462.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].text |
那本席針對原鄉及偏鄉相對蠻關心的所以其實原鄉偏鄉可以選擇的供應商也比較少但是一旦這些食材進入了公餐系統它影響的可能不是少數的學生會是整個學校所以請教兩個問題你們目前有沒有針對食藥署公佈的受影響的業者 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].start |
34467.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].end |
34485.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].text |
跟各縣市學校營養午餐的食材供應商團餐業者跟中央廚房採購的資料進行比對那是不是能夠確認那個受影響的油品是不是有流入原住民族地區及偏鄉的學校如果不能確認你們何時能夠完成全國的清查 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].start |
34486.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].end |
34508.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].text |
那本席這樣要求只是不希望你們只是要求地方政府自行了解是應該由中央這邊來擔負起這樣一個責任我們已經全部都下架這個是跟委員保證的是肯定的我知道你們都下架了但是本席關心的是是不是應該有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].start |
34511.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].end |
34527.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].text |
包含這個原住民地區的營養午餐他一定都在這個食材這個平台裡面都要揭露的所以我們事實上是全部的所以這個沙拉油裡面第一批我們看到的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].start |
34529.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].end |
34553.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].text |
這五個現實您在講的剛才的資訊本席這邊提醒也就是說本席關心的原鄉目前不是只有營養午餐的問題像長者其實他們文件一算也都還在運行這邊本席也要再提醒衛福部長本席在委員會也一直關心原住民族的平均餘命其實相對比較低的 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].start |
34554.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].end |
34570.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].text |
所以在一個健康平權的這個部分為什麼本席要特別提出來也就是說是不是可以請教育部還有衛福部可不可以將原住民地區的流向做一個優先的清查優先的集合 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].start |
34571.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].end |
34587.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].text |
然後還有優先的風險溝通是不是可以把這個部分也列為一個重點而不是在這樣一個全面清查當中在時間上在注意專注力上其實都比較尾端這個部分是不是也可以請你們考量一下那第二個部分是不好意思衛福部 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].start |
34588.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].end |
34607.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].text |
那目前食藥署沒有建立原鄉專案清查的一個機制那也就是部落集體公餐的系統還有偏鄉公共公餐的系統因為像本席最近那個整個東海岸的豐年祭已經集體在開始了那本席就關心那這一批有問題的有 |
| transcript.whisperx[820].start |
34609.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[820].end |
34636.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[820].text |
有沒有可能在這個狀況下其實在流通所以是不是本席這邊要提醒這部分可不可以專案來關心就是在速度上還有在這個比較分散的區域可能尾端它要等到你們的整個關注到尾端的時候可能速度上會比較慢然後在等到你們說地方來自主去做處理的時候速度上都慢了一點那很多東西已經在進行所以本席這邊為原住民跟偏鄉來做一個請命 |
| transcript.whisperx[821].start |
34637.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[821].end |
34658.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[821].text |
你們應該可能在這個部分可以做一些專案的處理好不好就是多加一些關注可以嗎跟委員說明我們都是第一刻時間就跟所有的地方衛生局都會把這個訊息通常原鄉跟偏鄉很容易被忽略掉速度也會比較慢本席這邊提醒可不可以在速度上還有專案上做一些處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[822].start |
34660.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[822].end |
34663.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[822].text |
時間已經到了這部分請用書面答覆給質詢的委員時間已到 |
| transcript.whisperx[823].start |
34703.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[823].end |
34704.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[823].text |
好,謝謝林委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[824].start |
34707.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[824].end |
34726.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[824].text |
法院會本日排定質詢的委員均與質詢完畢謝謝卓院長及相關部會首長列席答詢作以下之決定一 將各委員發言紀錄及書面質詢函送行政院請就位答覆部分予以書面答覆二 |
| transcript.whisperx[825].start |
34727.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[825].end |
34738.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[825].text |
已提出之事面質詢尚未登載公報者,於律補刊報告院會本次會議進行到此為止,現在散會 |