| IVOD_ID |
17571 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17571 |
| 日期 |
2026-07-06 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
聯席會議-11-5-15,26-1 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期內政、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[1] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[1] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期內政、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2026-07-06T08:31:06+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-07-06T11:27:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
02:55:54 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/eeffa975d6a1e3ead15d887be50965a6ea093030673645f97149c28021a32520aca18eb0c6b9c2c65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-07-06T08:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期內政、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、審查委員林月琴等21人擬具「跟蹤騷擾防制法部分條文修正草案」案。二、審查委員王育敏等16人擬具「跟蹤騷擾防制法部分條文修正草案」案。三、審查委員莊瑞雄等16人擬具「跟蹤騷擾防制法第二條及第四條條文修正草案」案。四、審查委員羅明才等18人擬具「跟蹤騷擾防制法第十二條條文修正草案」案。五、審查委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「跟蹤騷擾防制法第十二條條文修正草案」案。六、審查委員翁曉玲等23人擬具「跟蹤騷擾防制法第十二條條文修正草案」案。七、審查委員蘇清泉等29人擬具「跟蹤騷擾防制法第十二條條文修正草案」案。八、審查委員廖先翔等22人擬具「跟蹤騷擾防制法第三條、第四條及第九條條文修正草案」案。九、審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「跟蹤騷擾防制法第二條、第五條及第十二條條文修正草案」案。十、審查委員林宜瑾等18人擬具「跟蹤騷擾防制法第五條條文修正草案」案。十一、審查委員陳瑩等19人擬具「跟蹤騷擾防制法第五條條文修正草案」案。【僅詢答】
【7月6日、7月8日、兩天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:06 - 11:27:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
93.134 |
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93.781 |
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嗯嗯 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1031.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1032.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
谢谢大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1183.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1186.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
谢谢观看 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1282.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1285.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
谢谢观看下集再见 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1329.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1333.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
谢谢观看 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1631.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1632.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
谢谢大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1814.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1821.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
請主任秘書報告出席人數報告聯席委員會出席委員13人,已足法定人數好,現在開會進行討論事項,請宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1825.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1847.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
討論事項審查委員林月晴等21人及委員王玉明等16人分別擬據跟蹤騷擾防治法部分條文修正草案案審查委員鍾瑞雄等16人擬據跟蹤騷擾防治法第二條及第四條條文修正草案案審查委員羅明才等18人委員羅廷蔚等16人委員翁曉琳等23人及委員蘇清泉的29人分別擬據跟蹤騷擾防治法第二十 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1851.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1876.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
第十二條條文修正草案案審查委員廖先祥等二十二人拟據跟蹤騷擾防治法第三條第四條及第九條條文修正草案案審查台灣民眾黨黨團拟據跟蹤騷擾防治法第二條第五條及第十二條條文修正草案案審查委員林怡菁等十八人及委員陳瑩等十九人分別拟據跟蹤騷擾防治法第五條條文修正草案案宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1882.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1909.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
好本日議程所列討論事項合併詢答首先介紹在場委員及列席官員介紹王玉明委員王振旭委員林月琴委員王美惠委員我們今天是聯席這個未還委員會然後來介紹介紹我們內政部劉世芳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1912.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1934.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
警政署張榮鑫署長衛福部保護服務司副司長張靖倫副司長司法院民事廳法官楊法官謝謝法務部參事謝志明速發部數位平台組組長施偉仁 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1938.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1962.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
國家通訊傳播委員會法務處蔡莊委教育部特教司許莊委勞動部職安署葉氏察好 謝謝接下來請提案委員說明提案要旨我們按照順序請林月琴委員 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1978.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2002.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
部長還有各位同仁我們今天討論如何更精進來現行的跟騷法我理解當初主管機關在制定這部法律的時候是考量到眾多的跟騷行為當中針對於具有高危險性的也就是性與性別相關的跟騷行為先建立基本的防護網可是上路四年以來 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2003.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2022.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
第一線的實務顯示現行制度已經出現了保護落差首先跟騷的樣態行為已經高度數位化跟多元化包括匿名帳號持續訊息騷擾無聲的電話定位追蹤等行為這些行為已經構成了長期壓迫跟心理危險 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2023.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2039.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
可是卻常以困難證明與或性別相關導致無法進入保護機制那監察院的報告也指出第一線的執法人員在面對此類案件時往往要自行判斷看案件是否成立 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2040.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2068.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
造成警察跟司法機關認定不一致甚至出現同一行為在不同程序當中評價完全不同的狀況這不僅提高執法成本也讓被害人陷入法律保護的落差多數國家在處理跟騷行為的時候也都強調行為跟結果的導向美國跟澳洲的相關法制重點都在行為是否被害人產生合理的恐懼是否造成生活重大的干擾跟精神壓迫 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2068.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2084.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
而非要求證明特定性別跟性動機所以第二個核心問題在於相對人的處遇不足現在的處遇計畫局限在醫療性的一個治療導致適用門檻過高執行案件數非常的低 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2085.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2101.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
雖然有將近34.8%的被害人在申請保護令時同時勾選了我們的處遇需求但法院最終核發處遇令的竟然只有六件真正執行的完成的目前也只有一件而已因此 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2102.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2118.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我們在這次提出的修法重點有三項第一刪除與性或性別相關的構成要件並明確豁免條款在擴大保護的同時也讓第一線的人員有明確的判斷的標準第二強化相對人的處遇機制將認知教育跟心理輔導納入法律的框架讓適用的門檻降低 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2126.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2153.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
提升行為矯正跟再犯的預防的效果此外也因應數位跟跟騷的氾濫以及各自保護的需求我覺得應該將濫用跟冒用特定人的資料納入跟騷法的保護當中並要求保護令不得記載被害人的住所跟聯絡資訊由法院來主動保密避免被害人承受二次傷害風險因最後我要強調跟騷行為具有高度的危險性 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2155.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2179.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
約25%到35%的根燒案件最後最終都發展成身體暴力遭到我們的親密關係殺害的女性當中更有高達76%的在他被害前曾遭受根燒的狀況這個是的修法核心我覺得是讓根燒法做到可及時預防介入並且確實發揮保護的功能以上謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2181.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2185.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
謝謝林月琴委員 謝謝接下來我們請王一鳴委員提案說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2192.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2213.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
謝謝主席各位官員今天我們來啟動跟蹤騷擾防治法再一次修法其實是一件非常重要的工程本席在2016年的時候就跟民間團體推動了跟蹤騷擾防治法的修法歷經了多年一直到2022年立法院才 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2214.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2230.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
正式通過然後又過了四年這四年來我們看到實務上有非常多的問題所以今天必須提出來重新再修法更精進但是我要講非常遺憾的是目前我看到的書面報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2231.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2250.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
從警政署到司法院對於這次重大的修法立場都是反對的都是保守的都不想再更進一步提供我們婦女朋友更安全的保障頒了非常多的理由這些理由就是我在第一次2016年開始啟動修法的時候看到的官方的態度一樣非常的保守認為跟燒法沒有修法的必要 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2257.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2285.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
是在強大的輿論壓力跟發生了重大治安事件之後才逼得內政部退讓然後完成了立法院的修法我們不希望所有的修法都靠悲劇的堆疊然後才能讓政府官員認為這個是重要的再次修法我要講前陣子中信兄弟啦啦隊文文的事件他就是遭到這一個粉絲長期的跟蹤 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2286.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2301.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
一開始跟性跟性別不見得有完全的關係但是因為這樣的一個長期的跟蹤跟騷擾你可以看到他變成了一個受害者那今天我們要啟動的修法理念我們就是希望可以擴大去認定 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2302.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2317.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
要受理的要件但是我們現在看到官方的態度是反對的我要告訴這個內政部跟司法院我們現在在保護我們這一些跟蹤騷擾的女性朋友有很多不足之處 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2317.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2336.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
包括我們現在核發的這個書面告誡要長達11.9日我們的根栓的保護令核發下來平均的天數要超過一個月要34.98天這一些保護的空窗期請問怎麼辦所以本席這次提出來的包括有這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2337.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2352.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
緊急保護令應該是要去增訂的但是很遺憾我們看到現在司法院非常的保守他是反對的但是他的確有他的必要性第二個就是針對書面告誡警方應該要加強你的效率要在72小時之內去核發否則這個空窗體出的事情誰又該負責 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2358.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2371.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
另外針對完備保護令的種類跟數位的防護現在數位科技非常發達有一些會去散佈被害人的個資那像這些的情況也應該移除銷毀就是強化被害人的保護這個是必要的最後是去刪除與性與性別有關的要件並設豁免條款這個條款事實上是讓更多的婦女朋友他不用擔心他去報案的時候就被 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2388.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2409.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
警方主動篩案因為到目前為止 食物上面還是有的員警是直接認為說你這個不算 你這個不是就打回票了但是我們認為對於婦女安全的保障應該只有更精進更要求所以我反對現在這個司法院跟內政部在書面報告所表達的各項的反對意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2411.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2429.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
等到進入質詢的時候我們要好好的深深度的來探討我們希望大家朝野不分黨派那這個中央政府也可以鬆綁我們進一步在根稍法的第二次的修法裡面真正給我們全台灣的婦女朋友更安全的保護以上謝謝好謝謝王玉明委員的提案說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2435.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2441.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
其餘的提案委員均不在場,那我們就接著請內政部劉世芳部長報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2450.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2468.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
主席各位委員女士先生大家早今天非常榮幸代表內政部就跟蹤騷擾防治法部分條文修正草案向大院進行報告首先感謝各位委員長期以來對於防治性別暴力工作以及對內政部業務的支持跟關心 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2469.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2487.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
因為今天審查的11項修正草案裡面都是委員個別的提案所以我們在此提出一個綜合的說明提供各黨團及委員來參考第一個有關執行成效的部分本法從111年6月施行到今年5月 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2487.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2505.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
全國警察機關已經受理11703件的跟騷案件那數據顯示有高達九成以上的案件在警察機關介入或者是核發書面告誡以後行為人即停止了再犯的行為有效發揮保護被害人功能 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2507.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2533.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
針對各位委員所關心的書面告誡核發的時效其中有接近四分之一以上的案件在受理當日給予核發但是因為必須遵守通知行為人道案說明的法定送達期間或者是因為網路上面的必須要經過一定的行政程序的修正所以目前平均的時間大約是11.9天此外依據大院所制定本法的附帶決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2535.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2552.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
內政部已經啟動相關的檢討改善機制包含委託學者進行學理的研究辦理各警察機關實務的訪視那在今年呢針對桃園高雄彰化以及花蓮等四縣市已經試辦了重大根梢案件檢討以及諮詢的機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2554.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2578.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
期望透過跨專業的網絡合作持續強化再犯風險的評估跟被害人的保護量能那對於修法草案的核心立場的部分各位委員的提案強化被害人保護以及明確部會分工等良法美意深感敬佩但是對於委員擔憂第一線員警就與性或性別有關的要件判斷困難的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2579.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2602.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
內政部有透過教育訓練要求同仁以保護被害人為優先的原則來處理凡有初始懷疑即可核發書面告誡以確保民眾權益但是有關於刪除跟性或性別有關的要件恐怕對於第一線食物會造成非常重大的影響主要考量如下第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2602.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2624.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
跟蹤騷擾行為源自於迷戀、權力與控制或性別歧視等因素具備有發生率跟恐懼性、危險性跟傷害性有四個高的特徵那跟騷法是我國性別暴力防治重要的一環但並不是表示只有跟騷法在處理性別暴力的防治 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2624.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2639.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
所以除了治安維護立法議址及聚焦於性別暴力如果刪除所謂的性跟性別有關的要件的話會增列非常多的概括條款將使校園霸凌 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2639.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2658.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
市場排擠或者是鄰居糾紛等各類的人際衝突全部納入本法的範疇反而破壞了原來跟蹤騷擾防治法當時在制定的一個核心要旨那這個將導致因循各專業領域的調處的案件包括民政、社政 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2658.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2686.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
以及各地方政府還有包括司法 法務 未還等等這些全部由警察機關來以書面告誡取代的話那這些案件呢會依各該所所設的法令解決為比較好的發展方向如果全部把它放到根梢法的話反而會破壞原來的不管是在行政懲處或者是司法處理上面的一個網絡系統此外 現行對於未設性別暴力的人際衝突 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2687.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2709.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
警方已依照積極偵辦的原則 試案佔用社會秩序維護法刑法或組織犯罪防制條例等規範來嚴正持法其次本法分工跟資源配置均建立與性別有關的前提如果刪除這個要件會嚴重排擠現行性別暴力防制的法 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2711.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2730.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
的網絡資源跟跟騷法裡面所急需高度隱私防護的案件被害人有違依法設有叫一般案件更嚴密的保密規範如果將一般人際衝突混合處理有違比例原則會造成實務運用上面非常大的罕格最後 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2731.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2749.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
委員有提案新增依社會通念可容許的除外條款因為屬不確定的法律概念入於執法列舉恐有掛一漏萬之餘而且一聲爭議法官依法律來獨立審判授權法令僅能做參考恐難達成減輕基層認定負擔的美意請委員再與斟酌 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2754.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2770.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
在捷宇的部分 跟騷法這個施行到現在其實有相當多的部會跟地方政府都通力合作已經具備有防制性別暴力的實質效果像剛剛有跟委員報告的從111年6月1號開始施行到今年的5月30日為止 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2774.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2781.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
各警察機關共受理11703件他的案件類型如果是屬於一般關係的話大概佔63.6%家庭成員或親密關係家庭暴力的話佔36.4%在行為太樣上面共有29730次是跟蹤騷擾行為其中與通訊騷擾24.1最多盯梢尾隨21.1次之那在核發書面告誡方面有23.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2804.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2818.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
是在於一日內核發共計有7465件違反書面告誡案件有735件九成的行為人在警察機關積極介入之後已經停止再辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2820.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2840.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
所以從跟稍法施行迄今各部會都有通力合作那內政部會持續精進各項防治措施跟加強相關部會的合作也請各位委員支持讓第一線執法更具效能也能夠更周全的保障民眾的權益報告完畢好謝謝謝謝柳氏班部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2841.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2865.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
其他單位的報告請委員自行參閱並刊登公報現在進行詢答原例做幾點宣告本聯席委員會委員諮詢時間5分鐘必要時得延長2分鐘非本會委員諮詢時間5分鐘上午10點30分截止諮詢登記我們今天處理法案本次會議就不處理臨時提案請問各位委員有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2868.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2887.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
好那我們就進行詢問請登記第一位的林月琴委員主席麻煩有請我們的部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2896.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2925.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
委員早部長早我們先來看一個具體的例子有一名夜線的男子多次挑A女下班時間到他工作的地方等他甚至一路尾隨回家他還把機車放在A的旁邊然後多次撫摸他的機車坐墊部長我認為等他下班尾隨回家及撫摸機車的坐墊就是跟騷而且這是社會通念可是一審法官判定無罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2925.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2953.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
然後雖然檢察官跟二審法官都認定是符合跟騷法那這也代表呢符合社會通虐的案件可是在司法的見解上差異極大現在第一線的困難就是或性別相關到底怎麼認定標準不清楚所以部長在跟騷案件當中類似上訴的案件就您能掌握的因為性跟性別相關的認定標準不一導致法律見解跟被 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2954.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2968.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
受害者感受的落差這種狀況你知道嗎報告委員我想我們不宜針對個案來做處理我把它通案化所以我是不是請警政署還有請委員是不是可以請司法院的代表機關的人來回應剛剛委員的提問好 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2969.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2992.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
包委員現在這個顯然看起來就是說這個行為人也就是要跟著這個行為人第一個就是他有重複多次的這個狀況那這個今天如果這個被跟制的被害人他今天就是說他迴反他的意願那這個行為人有多次這個行為他心裡又感情畏懼這個就是跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2993.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2999.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
因為我去年底召開更燒法的修法的公聽會的時候就已經要求警政署要召集法務部司法院針對性與性別相關要件提出一致的解釋 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3018.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3033.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
也要透過教育訓練跟委外研究全面盤點實務問題可是我要先問清楚因為那時候你們也承諾事實上是要做研究第一個我也要問研究到底現在執行的狀況是什麼到哪裡了是不是本來是六月底 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3033.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3058.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
要結案的那現研究案到底那個時間點是什麼還有研究案完成之前要修法落實的話可是現在正在發生的案件第一線警員到底要依什麼標準來受理判斷跟處理內政部有沒有一個先提出來暫行指引案例說明或教育訓練的更新有沒有跟法務部司法院先做討論一致性的那樣子的標準到底在哪邊署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3065.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3084.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
除了說我們15單位以外就是包括學術單位中正大學跟那個警察大學我們大概7月份左右就這個整個的資料都會出來那現行如果還沒研究還沒出來的時候到底要依什麼標準啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3085.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3099.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
那這個現在的標準是更燒的這些過程要件嗎剛剛我所提的第一個當事人報案圍繞他的醫院我們發現大概有兩次以上的這種情形反覆那心理有畏懼那這個的狀況大概就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3101.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3122.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
所以員警都知道嗎?應該都會知道所以這個部分我們在教育訓練大概都是對於這個初判的過程要見我們不會讓他落結我介紹一個對於未來研究案能夠落實的要求就是我認為關鍵事實上是保護的缺口跟騷行為不是小事 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3123.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3146.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
你看研究也指出25%到35%跟騷案件最終發展成身體暴力然後76%呢遭親密伴侶呢殺害的女性呢生前事實上是遭受過跟騷的那所以我想問一下就是說這四年來明明有跟蹤守候尾隨連續那個騷擾可是最後就是不符合性與性別相關要件的案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3146.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3165.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
所以這些到底有哪些樣態我想這個樣態應該是非常多這個應該是要從實務不管是在我們警察機關移送到地檢署甚至到法院這個結果所以我們不會讓他落街就是我們的案件來之後我們判斷這個就是跟性與性別有關我們就是會做這個核發書面的這個告誡 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3168.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3194.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
可是現在你在實務上這些案件都是用社會法第89條還是刑法的強制跟防害自己的處理如果社會法第89條這個部分應該是只有第一次啦第一次 就是說他的跟騷沒有跟性與性賠沒有關係所以這比例有多少 所以是不是麻煩會後是不是可以提供相關的因為我認為跟騷法最重要的發揮是預防介入的功能盡可能讓大部分跟騷受害人都可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3194.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3214.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
及時啟動書面告誡保護令的措施避免釀成更嚴重的傷害國外的做法也是這樣子所以我希望這邊是不是具體的承諾部長這邊能不能7月份產出的研究案不是只有文獻整理更不能完成後放在抽屜我覺得研究完成之後請 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3216.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3243.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
內政部立刻提供給我們本辦還有在一個月內要求邀集我們的婦女團體被害人保護團體第一線員警共同研議能不能做到部長這邊好那跟委員報告就是說我們是對於食物機關的相關聯繫跟委外的這個我們7月份那把這樣的這個指引把它把它做一個更明確的一個這樣的一個指引好再麻煩因為我覺得除了根梢案件以外最近 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3244.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3272.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
那個連鎖醫美診所的整間的偷拍事件呢也引起社會非常大的一個震撼所以如果今天事實上是性影像的受害人我要先向警方報案然後配合偵查影像流通到網路我要向衛福部申請協助下架然後我需要心理支持呢我要找不同的單位那想問明明同一個案件為什麼要重複一直不斷的說明委員如果說有類似這一個我們大概都站立從我會跟其他部會會去做 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3273.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3288.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
是不是可以跟其他部委因為韓國的數位性比較像性侮辱犯罪我們這些警察知道了他要下架我們大概就會給衛生部對性侮辱犯罪會去做下架不用他再要到跟衛生部去報案了 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3289.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3304.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
韓國的數位性犯罪被害人資源中心他除了協助性影像下架他把案件的管理平台的聯繫法律的協助跟心理支持的都整合起來所以未來是不是可以朝向這樣子走 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3312.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3334.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
對 那牽涉到如果當事人對於性影像部我們知道了要對於這個當事人說要求下架我們馬上會聯繫六個部會做下架的這樣的一個不好意思 最後一個就是說我們的兒少的性影像我們也一直很關心是你們已經有數位監視資料庫了那也透過轉為雜咒值以匿名方式來比對同一個影像 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3335.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3357.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
那我們也覺得這事實上是當初也是我在法裡面有要求的所以我不知道內政部有沒有評估過將那個性影像的數位監視資料擴及到成人因為有些成人也是被迫不得已去委員這個部分因為是在衛福部這個已經衛福部依據這個性侵害防治法裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3358.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3373.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
就有已經在 姓李張士在衛福部已經有成立了這個可能會製作重點 怎麼來做精進啊這個在衛福部這邊已經有成立的這個東西了是不是可以去做 考慮跟衛福部去做溝通不好意思 主席再給我一點時間 因為這個很重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3373.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3393.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
部長我也聽過第一線員警反應因為擔心證據遺失有時候會先把性影像存在自己辦案的電腦裡邊這樣做恐怕有那個資安的疑慮也可能增加性影像外流的一個風險會不會現在就有性影像處理中心會協助被害人保全證據下架移除那法律 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3393.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3421.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
法院的卷宗也有保存的年限期限內也會去銷毀有法定的程序想問一下為什麼第一線還是會把新影像存在個人的電腦的這種狀況是警政署對於新影像那個證物呢還沒有整個明確的流程嗎還是流程有了沒有落實到第一線我們有流程了就是依照兒少信報的這個處理中心大概刑事局有這個那我們的同仁承辦就會上傳到 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3421.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3449.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
你們有把明確的規定說不能夠存在個人電腦如果可以的話 條例說不實的話 那不可以的話那當然啦 你的證據上傳之後 你的頭顱那邊就不能保存你的那個東西啦因為我們很怕這個東西是透過某一個法定的人士他拿到 他好像目前看起來合法最後是傳出去那是違法的 這頭顱這樣就違法了是啊 可是如果拿到 你最後查所以我們有一定的SOP 他上傳之後 他自己不能留底啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3450.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3471.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
那邊就不能留了所以另外一個我就要問有沒有定期查核確認性影像不會留存在遠景個人電腦隨身碟外接硬碟或其他設備當中查核頻率查核方式是什麼委員我們每個月都會查核每個月都會查核好再麻煩我們多加來保護我們的受害人謝謝謝謝林耀勤委員謝謝接下來我們請張志倫委員詢答謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3484.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3489.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
好 謝謝主席 各位委員 各位官員好有請劉思芳部長 警政署張署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3492.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3518.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
部長今天討論的是非常重要有關於跟蹤騷擾防治法的修法我們都知道跟蹤騷擾防治法已經上路4年了當然我們當然當時希望它成為被害者的保護傘可是從我們現在現行的數據跟各界的檢討我們擔心因為制度上還是有很多的缺陷如果看得到吃不到用不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3519.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3531.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
相關的法令現行的根招法的方案動機必須要限縮在性跟性別有關所以現在非常多沒有辦法使用到的地方而且他的危險評估表只有針對親密關係的暴力 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3535.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3557.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
來設計所以許多動機的不明我們最近可以看到許多單純這個狂粉追星財產糾紛淋漓騷擾甚至仇恨尾隨的案件其實都沒有辦法在第一時間證明這樣的行為那麼來看一下今天你們專案報告統計的一些數據我們看到警察同仁非常辛苦可是 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3558.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3586.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
第一步我們要跟騷使用跟騷要警察先書面告誡加害人的時候我們看到大概要11天的時間才可以核發我們的書面告誡書這個時間非常長那是否有機會改善第二個我們受害人要申請跟騷的保護令平均要34天才能申請到所以如果是一位加害人 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3586.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3606.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
他如果受到騷擾要達到保護令的時候加上我們的書面告誡要長達45天的時間才能拿到所以就是我剛剛提到我們以數據來看的話時間是不是過久是不是可以請署長這邊可以來解釋是不是書面告誡跟騷擾保護令的時間是不是可以縮短 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3607.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3630.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
那剛剛委員所說的現在目前看起來就是說現在的更傷案件我們大概百分之九十就是順便告進來之後就會二者嘛那現在就是說這個時間順便告知是什麼時候順便告知那我們當然要有點那個調查的這個程序第一個就是備案人的意願第二個就是他會新增衛部再來就是一些這個反覆的這些行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3631.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3659.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
那這裡面會拖的這個時間比較長的就是在網路上的這些的這個你要知道他的IP要跟這一些的這個網路業者調了這個時間時間大概就是在這個部分那只要是確定其實如果是實體上的這個人如果說是有實體的人不是透過網路上的實體人速度都非常快我們調查完之後我們甚至很快就可以這個核發這個書面告誡那書面告誡完之後進入到 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3660.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3674.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
到DN法院去 到法院去那如果說這個跟召人就還有這樣的行為那當然就是 好 謝謝署長有沒有時間時間來說的因為你剛剛特別講到4月更燒應該是會 會 會我們今天NCC有來嘛我們會跟進大家請是可以像我們剛剛委員講的72小時內可以把這個書面告誡書如果說72個小時內要發告誡我們這次發見行為確定完這4個小時是沒問題的 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3688.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3698.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
所以你未來有機會發生事實後發生事實後之後在70個小時內可以可以可以可以可以可以可以可以可以可以可以可以可以可以可以可以可以可以可以可以可以可以可以可以可以可以可以可以可以可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3717.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3727.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
報告委員跟委員報告一下我們這邊的數據是這樣114年核發的書面告誡是一般根梢是1183那家暴根梢是576那違反書面告誡的話一般根梢是159 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3741.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3764.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
家暴跟騷是38那保護令的申請的時候家暴保護令是477職權申請保護令是21協助申請是134那大家都知道說書面告誡或者是這個保護令的申請單位各不相同譬如說警政署在第一時間內就是把這個書面告誡很快就完成但是保護令的申請透過的司法程序比較多一點663件 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3768.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3778.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
663件是一年的還是統計到現在所以我要跟署長跟部長報告你們在第二頁的裡面有提到說總共統計這幾年統計是29730次 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3783.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3808.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
這是他實施的次數那這次是11753我用最多的數據來算嘛如果這麼多的發生次數當然我知道不一定每個都會有書面告結婚甚至有申請保護令可是這個申請保護令的數量我認為還是太過就是以整體的整個案件來講的話他的比例大概是百分之百分之二我給你告這碗之後他又來跟嘛那就 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3812.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3829.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
會申請到法院去申請保護令也就是說他如果有百分之九十的案件我順便告誡他就停了嘛所以原來是要跟署長跟部長報告喔要跟sponsoring的人就是說我給他告誡了他還是再來犯了大概就這樣就是跑到法院去那邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3829.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3850.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
啊這個申請包括被害人包括警察包括警察官都可以申請保護令那甚至急迫的其實也不用說他順便告也可以跳過順便告誡我就可以直接跟法院申請保護令緊急的比方像那個現在看到那個文文案啊我們一知道之後我們馬上就連連繫 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3854.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3870.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
為什麼我特別要跟你報告這件事情我把這個比例算給您看的原因就是因為現在跟沙發只有對性跟性別剛剛我講了這麼多其他的動機的部分都不包含在內所以我們才希望說是不是可以因為現在我們都知道只有家暴 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3870.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3882.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
加暴防治法或者是剛剛講的跟騷法才能發保護令出來啊跟騷也可以啊跟騷加暴性其實我們現在這樣子跟騷是補足加暴性侵跟性騷這三法的補足 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3890.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3906.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
這個就是保護性別暴力的這個法律就對我們這次的修法我們還特別引進了類似家暴防治法的緊急保護令希望說如果未來有緊急急迫的時候就是我們可以跳過 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3909.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3926.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
這個警方發的書面告誡在四個小時內就比照家暴防治法在四個小時內請法院必須來核發緊急保護令的這個方式請問署長你支持這樣的方式嗎這個司法院是不是可以司法院表示一下這個我不能越前司法院有沒有在現場這個我不要越前好 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3933.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3957.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
好 謝謝 請司法院好 感謝委員垂詢那跟委員報告那因為我們的根梢法它的立法的體力其實和家暴法不一樣那其實我們在根梢法裡面那書面告誡它這個制度其實就已經跟這個家暴法裡面的緊急保護令已經有高度的功能重疊這個部分其實警政署它的研究報告裡面也有指出這一點不好意思 長官 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3957.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3985.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
那個保護令跟書面告誡的功能差異非常大如果拿到保護令我拿到書面告誡只能通知加害人說請你停止這樣的行為可是我拿到保護令是對我來講是對被害人有一個非常強大的保護作用這兩個怎麼會一模一樣勒你們在報告裡面就特別寫說你們要34天才能發保護令我們現在是希望說可以加速這樣的讓被害人可以保障自己的行為怎麼會這樣怎麼會一樣勒 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3986.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4001.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
三十四天的部分其實是這個那個跟騷法它的一般的保護令那依照跟騷法的規定我們必須要先通知加害人來提出對那個被害人他的申請書來提出意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4001.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4029.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
那我們當然就是需要一個通知還有等待他回應的這一段時間所以當然沒有辦法在這麼短的時間內來這個做出那我來請教如果未來我們修法就是說針對緊急危險者法院可不可以在4個小時收到警方的資料類似他把這個我們所說的書面告誡資料沒有給加害人直接給法院用4個小時的時間讓法院在4個小時來核發緊急保護令這點你們同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4031.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4043.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
這部分可能就是涉及跟SOFA整體制度的規範因為現行的實習紀錄表就已經規定說在緊急的狀況之下檢警可以不經書面告誡先請程序直接來申請保護令 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4044.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4061.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
這也是OK的可以的嗎好這個可能至於這個是看要整體制度怎麼樣設計現在可能沒有辦法回應說一定可以在這個時間之內來核發問題點在哪裡我們要看整體的制度設計是怎麼樣不是我們今天就是要來幫被害人 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4062.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4083.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
大家看到那麼多的問題所以我們希望說可以來幫被害人來解決一些問題所以拜託會後是不是各單位可以討論一下那用書面回覆我們你們到底可以的原因不行的原因來對我們書面要多久時間可以回覆這部分可能要跟執政署這邊看看 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4086.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4099.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
可以嗎?一個月可不可以?還是三個月?三個月看整體的制度設計我們再來做回應所以現在沒辦法回答要看主管機關這邊對於整體制度設計主管機關是內政部好不好?部長是不是有沒有機會針對我剛提的這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4102.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4117.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
那這個部分我們再跟那個司法人員再來做一個互相協調因為這裡面有個牽涉他們的權責啦他們能不能再跟委員所講的事實上能不能達成這個這個在這裡我也沒有辦法替他答應這種事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4118.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4138.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
我要拜託署長部長跟我們司法院今天很多委員十幾個委員都有提出相關的版本希望說各部會再統整一下讓我們的這個受害人可以提早得到應該的保護再拜託好謝謝好謝謝張志榮委員接下來我們請王美惠委員詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4150.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4150.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
主席,我們請署長請報庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4160.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4181.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
委員好市長早早 部長早早剛才我們有董事會說 更修AutoBike這樣綁著綁著在這個規定當中第一心的事 判沒罪未來再判 它的更修法成立在這個規定當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4183.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4205.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
補充你認為跟消化 到現在已經四年了 像這個問題也出現的時候你認為要怎麼做 能夠好好來 署長你要回答嗎 補充要回答我們警察單位受理任何被害人 他的報案 收案件都會受理 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4206.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4229.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
所有的案件都是你不管是一般案件或者是怎樣的人會根據裡面的這個被害人描述的內容不用像剛才那個某個地方某個地方傳入這個被害人因為這個就是去跟他姓可能要跟他追蹤跟他有這個關係只要提出他的意願他心裡有畏懼我們出辦就是更少的 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4230.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4238.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
就是被他這麼說嘛 我就是 我去問他就是他就是對我什麼樣的想法要一定是對還是不對要修例 要修例 他就說這可能對我愛慕 對我什麼樣的這個這個就是出判我們就用根殺法 就第一時間確定身份之後就會順便告誡嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4251.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4257.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
掛這個完之後,這個繼續加盟嘛對不對?繼續加盟,我們就用保護令,就到法官那邊就會申請保護令了那署長,在裡面的政府報告裡面,說我們的署名到這個時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4272.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4293.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
整個的董事也跟你說說我給你丟了丟了丟了很久沒有啦要重慶要給你委員那第一時間知道的第一時間當天如果知道當天就可以發了第一天都抽過誰第一天就有但是有一些就是身份查不到他抽過網路的啊那有IP就是匿名的啊所以說你說的就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4295.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4301.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
不然之後 知道什麼人 接婚禮時 我們才有確定的資料有時候冬天還會發書面告罪對 冬天 差不多有25% 這裡滿幾家裡面有25%是當天就發了喔 當天就發了 是怎麼樣呢 說實在的 這種建設法 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4318.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4324.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
被迫在這裡,會很煩惱、很害怕他有時候要出去,他也不敢出去因為他想說,他不知道是什麼人他在暗中,被軍中的人殺死所以在這個過程當中,很害怕 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4340.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4343.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
委員我要報告,我們這樣判斷就是那個人被抓的比例,他的敘述還有他的這些相關的我們會去第一時間去證明,就是他對他講出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4352.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4375.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
我們第一時間就能夠判別他會不會跟姓李姓北有關係那對的就是可能就是暗戀迷戀這樣的一個狀況我們查證查證只要確定跟的人的身份只要是有反覆所謂反覆我的任務是要兩次啦兩次以上啦 還要兩次以上一次對不對 兩次 第二次我們就會做這樣的書面告知 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4376.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4393.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
第一遍的訊息第一遍可能被公職友第一次看到第一遍搞不好之前跟他不知道但是比方說我們問他說這已經跟你幾次說這就是第一遍了第一遍可能就是要再查證一下是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4394.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4410.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
如果第一次查證,如果是他的位子,你覺得是修例?修例啊,也是修例啊,我們會做掃理啊因為市長,本身要跟你探討的就是說,剛才你說的說如果知道比較正常的什麼人,還可以過程去正式告解的資料出來不知道在網路的時間賠罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4422.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4423.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
在這裏面 我覺得中間要12天11天的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4439.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4446.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
我自己要經過我們的網路經過我們的客廳我們可以通知嘛在這個過程當中我要跟市長說市長我們的董事很認真所以在查案的時候我們也要鼓勵因為像你說的說不是每天都很忙的12天 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4462.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4469.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
沒有沒有,我剛才有說過,不是這樣所以說,如果知道比較正,什麼人的新聞,比較正的事情之後,有時候當天就會發出來,是不是這樣好,這樣,讚,要記得,還有我們的董事 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4482.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4491.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
鼓勵一下因為我們的董事公司在剛才署長說的網路真的不好找每次發生在網路的時候說實在我們要找的事不簡單啊很辛苦的啦來那個我們洋華館來 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4509.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4536.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
在這裡剛才有董事問過說我們的被害人可以去到保護鏈最緊要三十五天啦在這個過程你也有說要再去查 要再去做啦但是我先要跟你說一件事人如果抓狂啦你知道抓狂的意思嗎抓狂的意思你知道啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4537.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4540.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
所以這35天,對被害者來說,真的很害怕 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4553.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4559.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
楊法官你要說的,我們要再查、要再做,還有很多單位我相信會更改善,還要多的時間因為他真的知道,他都在他家裡守護、守護,等被害人出來的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4574.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4581.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
處理不應該的工序所以我再次請教,可以再縮短嗎?35天說實在的,35天就變化很多了 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4590.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4601.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
要如何看待這35天當然你們辦公室你們說我又要什麼人做我又要什麼人做因為這個保護鏈不能亂發就是要面面之道都要有它的資料有它的經濟才可以有這個保護鏈是嗎 來 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4614.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4638.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
理會大姐感謝委員垂詢那我們對於委員對於保護被害人的這個理念真的是非常的感佩那這邊也要跟委員報告我們的跟騷法其實除了保護令之外還有其他的可以保護被害人的機制可以達到更有效而且強力的保護機制那我們本法跟家暴法不一樣的是本法是直接規定說跟蹤騷擾行為他直接已經入罪了 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4639.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4668.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
所以如果類似剛才委員所說的這一種有急迫危險的情況它其實就是一種犯罪行為那如果是犯罪行為警察機關檢查機關得知了這種行為之後其實可以立即採取刑事訴訟法上面規定的強制處分的那些作為比如說現行犯的逮捕啊那或者是本法也有規定預防性羈押這種方式其實可以非常立即而且有效的把加害人和被害人加以隔離它的效果可能比保護令更加的強大 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4669.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4684.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
那由於本法的這個跟騷的行為他要入罪是採取告訴乃論所以這個部分如果被害人他一旦到警局有提起這個跟騷跟騷罪的告訴的話相信檢警機關應該會立即採取這種強力的強制處分的作為因為我們自己探討就是說有的公司的被害人很怕的 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4693.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4698.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
在這個過程當中有時候他會覺得他要去申請保護令的時候,那個時間會覺得太久了因為有時候沒有明顯的時候,你還要查檔查曬 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4710.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4720.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
本學是要跟你們說,如果有時間要收修的時間,要收修不可以發生事情,然後來爆發,說這裡要怎麼處理,這裡要怎麼處理這樣說不好,本學是跟你們的意見發生事情說實在的,大家都不愛 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4732.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4740.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
但如我本事所說,一定是暗的,比海淋濕的所以這個過程當中,我也希望洋華觀念學院可以提供一些探討讓這個時間縮小,如何能夠保護這些受害者 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4756.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4777.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
謝謝委員 這個部分其實我們已經有發函提醒各個法院 如果處理這類的保護令事件的時候 一定要投訴審理對啦 我們覺得看到更三法部 我們的政府在這也是希望說做好好的 做好好的事情就是每一個單位 要提出法律才可以趕快去保護被害者 以上謝謝 謝謝王美惠委員 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4787.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4804.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
接下來我們請王育民委員詢答好 謝謝主席 我們有請這個劉部長還有張署長還有這個司法院楊法官委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4805.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4832.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
好 署長好我想這一次的有關於《耕燒法》的修法當時在2016年開始啟動修法的時候在座的部長跟署長都不在任那當時 我記得當時修法的時候事實上內政部是一直抗拒到最後了 逼不得已因為我記得出了委員會之後 在第九屆的時候出了委員會已經送到院會了然後是這個當時民進黨的總召 柯建民總召 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4832.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4855.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
他就要把他拉下來就是不讓這個法案三讀通過所以從第九屆又延到第十屆好不容易2022年真的正式通過了當時通過的時候的內政部部長叫徐國勇那內政部發出的新聞稿呢告訴大家說這個很高興跟中消防治法通過了我們會持續的精進檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4857.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4880.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
也就是說這個法已經上路四年了這四年來我們出現的任何的問題應該是要持續的精進檢討但是很遺憾你們的書面報告都覺得現在做得很好所以第一個我要講的就是現在的這些破口你們如果說都不修法到底要怎麼去改善第一個我們就用個案來看這個文案 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4882.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4908.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
他在攝影棚被磁刀攻擊那這個人就是長期在追蹤他的人現在都不修法請問用現在的性騷擾防治法我們有辦法處理嗎來署長回答所有的案件一定是要讓警察知悉嘛知道嘛那這個案委員這個案我們也是在這個報章雜誌之後第一時間就介入 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4909.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4933.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
介入就即時就是去做處理包括這個這個這個當事人也也也有做生壓包括也不是只有不是只有跟燒只有傷害殺人未遂生壓對這已經很嚴重了這是後面了我的意思是說像這樣的一個案件所有案件就是要鼓勵所有的這些的相關的就是被跟燒的人被跟在第一時間一定要來報案啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4934.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4952.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
一定要報我們 你要報我們警察機構我也不知道那報案的要件署長你知道嗎我們都會受理啊你不是要認定跟性有關的人來受理嗎第一個就是被跟騷的人他在描述他被跟騷的情形第二片就是說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4954.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4971.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
有沒有這樣的反覆的這個狀況啊心裡會產生這個畏懼那比喻講像他是一個他是一個一個比喻叫做一個一個就是一個女性的男性的這樣的一個行為這個女這個女性的被跟著就 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4972.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
4992.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
我沒有問他說這個是對你有什麼狀況他一定是這個案內嗎或怎麼樣這些被騙人的牢數我們當然就是會去做這樣的一個受理那如果說你現在是從寬可以我們就回到本次的修法那刪除性與性別的要件為什麼不可以我覺得這個範圍就很大因為其他跟照在設置在 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
4995.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5002.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
在刑法或其他法律都有做規範就是根梢的一般的這個根梢在設置法也有做規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5004.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5021.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
所以我們就回來檢討應該要修法民間團體也覺得你現在的做法就是去限縮我跟你說啦你地方有一些員警就會以這個為由他就會先問說是不是跟性跟性別有關如果不是他會主動排除委員我做個建議啦這個我實務上的這個問題今天如果在這個因為這個跟沙發是 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5028.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5039.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
對於女性性別暴力的其中的一個法包括家暴性侵還有這個性騷擾整體的這個主軸就是在這個那至於一般的這個根沙我建議來修設置法一般的就跑到設置法那邊去有包括相關的責任因為因為那邊的根沙我們也也有提議要去做怎樣比如講像有一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5055.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5080.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
講比較簡單現在的拖拍啦什麼這一類這些那個都跑到那個設置法那邊去啊那但是他的處罰沒那麼重可以可以來修可以來修設置法那你們提出來啊提出來配套來說服我們啊你現在那個也沒有啊你這個也不要那邊也沒有就是沒有配套現在有的現在所有案件裡面要符合姓李姓北的會跑到設置法刑法甚至 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5080.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5086.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
甚至那個組織犯罪或者是這一些的那個那個那個組長你如果要說你現在是很完整民間團體就不會倡議修法了啦就是現在你有漏洞嘛民間團體才會倡議說應該是要重寬 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5096.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5124.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
委員我來一起回應您剛所提議的這些爭議點當時要送跟騷法的時候我是立法委員我是同意的因為我們同樣在婦女裡面都知道說其實在跟騷法裡面的被害者大部分都是女性但是跟騷法也好或是設置法或是跟性有關的性侵害防治法或家暴法它裡面很大的一個點就是要告知社會大眾你必須要讓警方來接受受理 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5125.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5137.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
那警方接受受理之後他再判斷是否用跟騷法或是社違法或者是性侵害防治法他們會跟這個受害者或是被害者會做一個解釋然後通常是警方有不受理的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5140.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5154.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
如果警方不受理那我們就要加強教育我先跟委員報告那所以如果他們判斷出來是根梢法的時候警方的第一次的提醒大概有90%會抑止這樣的加害的行為那10%左右才會送到向法院申請保護令所以這個數據會有差距這是一個再來就是我們另外一個需要處理的部分就在於說網路的犯罪網路的犯罪會讓被害者心生恐懼 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5169.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5189.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
但是網路的部分就像大家都知道網路你要找到真正的加害人在哪裡確實需要時間但是如果我們在警方所有的資源上面能夠馬上處理我們一定馬上處理所以這個部分第一個我們現在已經跟書面報告跟大家報告九成如果是警方受理跟騷法的 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5190.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5209.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
核發這個所謂的書面告誡的話呢它其實可以達到第一次的這個遏止效果而且日本他們的這個研究是八成左右可以達到那再來就是大家會比較擔心如果它是比較嚴重比較嚴重的話你是適合性侵或是其他家庭暴力是整個的法律的系統它是完備的 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5210.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5238.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
但是可能我們第一線的員警會先問說這個跟姓跟性別有關那所以呢一定要一定要這個跟燒法的話跟姓跟性別有關但是他忘了提醒說也許用社會安全這個設置法是可以處理的比如說可能是男男或者是想要討債甚至我們這個公寓大廈管理條例鄰居跟鄰居之間都有處理的方案那如果這些方案有不足的地方的話我們在第一線的警員在法律上如何處理更好的話我們會來加強 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5240.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5266.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
部長我要告訴你就是你現在實務上就是處理不好沒有周全也沒有配套所以民間團體才會倡議希望是直接從跟騷法裡面我們修法我們怎麼樣去縮短你的核發的這個時間包括保護令還有就是這個禁制令的時間還有就是希望你可以在網路上剛剛你特別提到網路上面有一些被害人的個資他也被傳播 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5268.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5290.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
或者是他在網路上面被騷擾這個都是當時四年前修法的時候我們沒有看到的漏洞那我覺得這個修法就像剛剛部長你講你當時也是立法委員你也是贊成的那當時內政部的態度就是四年以後當然是可以檢討啊那我們現在就是要檢討但是你們剛剛講的那些配套你們根本沒有提出方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5291.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5316.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
也沒有包括署長你講的你說可以在其他法令修你也沒有提出相對的一個配套的修法所以我是不是可以要求你們在一個月內你們把要配套的相關的修法還有剛剛部長你說就是怎麼樣讓基層的員警每一個個案都不漏接而不是直接用擋的說你這個不符合性跟性別然後直接就擋掉了然後他也不知道下文是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5317.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5330.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
因為基層的員警可能也沒有告訴他還有哪一些路可以走那你們可不可以一個月之內提出你們的相關配套的更完整的一個修法或者是相關配套機制的報告 可以嗎 署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5334.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5349.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
我們這個報告大概7月份會有一些資源出來那是不是因為這些的包括中正還有警大的這些資料還有食物單位7月份再出來我們是不是再給我們一點時間就一個月一個月可能7月才會出來現在已經7月了現在要多久你要多久我要完整的你們檢討報告因為民間團體對這個是很期待的 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5357.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5384.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
我們是不是可以把那個警告跟那個兩個月 就兩個月可以喔 對不對因為這件事情是涉及到保護我們的婦女的安全的問題你們應該要予以重視我們在九月以前好不好 九月以前就八月底啊 八月底啊 好不好八月底提出來喔 九月啦九月的什麼時候 九月以前對啊 九月 部長數學不好九月底不是兩個月 就兩個月嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5387.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5399.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
現在七月初啊,就兩個月啦,不要再握手了啦,主席,趙偉,就兩個月就兩個月啦,好不好,好啦,就兩個月要提出來,從今天開始期算,謝謝好,謝謝,謝謝為民委員,接下來我們請張宏祿委員詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5417.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5443.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
部長跟署長已經在那其實部長署長這個跟燒法其實也是一個新的立法那我記得當初在立法的時候我們有附帶決議就有說三年後應該啟動檢討跟改善因為這一個其實我們必須要說 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5445.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5464.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
目前的根梢堡我們那時候在立法的時候大家也會覺得說這個範圍是不是夠廣或太窄然後現在實務上發現有一些時間太長比如說書面告誡或禁制令有些大家會覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5467.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5492.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
這個時間過長所以我們那時候其實在修法的時候也有考量到這些我不知道部長跟署長我們我們那時候有說三年後應該啟動檢討與改善那我剛也聽了有兩個大學有在做這些檢討跟改善的一些資料不知道現在做得如何了 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5493.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5516.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
OK 那大概就在七月會出來了七月七月會出來了但我覺得其實現在在基層的員警其實也有一個我覺得我們如果沒有把它釐清清楚第一線工作基層員警真的我覺得替他們感到很難過 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5517.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5532.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
到底是要用更燒法還是要用社會秩序維護法還是要用其他的法律其實很難去界定這個其實如果第一時間被害人來報案他被更他第一時間講 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5534.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5549.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
他就是他的這個他的意願就是說他被迷戀啦被愛慕啦被這一些的被愛人講出來第一聲是我們出辦我們就跑到這個姓李姓培的關係這個被愛人是非常重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5549.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5572.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
被害人的這個論述中但根據被害人的論述再來做長者我知道你說的這個啦但你確定每個被害人都我們問他不是啦你確定每個被害人都說得很清楚這個是一個重點這是一個重點你說的是那個我知道這是一個重點那再來我們那時候授權執法 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5578.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5602.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
結果呢在更燒法施行細則裡面第15條我們讓檢警單位得以依職權直接向法院申請保護令免受無法書面告解這個到底做的成效如何急迫性的這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5608.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5612.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
這個法院那邊不知道有沒有這樣的一個狀況就是那個擊破的這個部分保護令 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5623.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5649.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
這個案件應該不多啦我知道啊所以我要問說這個成效如何因為執法授權你們定案你們有這個權利啊有這個權限啊我不知道執行的效果如何啊這個可能很多人都沒有注意到啊沒有這個目前從這個法過到現在依照之前申請保護令有80件好啊成立的有多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5653.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5667.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
就是有80件他有核發保護令的啊就是法官跟申請啊那個法官有準我知道啦我知道啦你現在準的是80件你申請幾件你現在手頭上沒有資料啦齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5669.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5690.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
好啦沒有關係啦我只是因為母法裡面是有規定很清楚但施行細則裡面也授權給你們這個我只是要知道說那你們的去執行的如何我覺得這個很多人也沒有注意到啊但有這個啊對不對這等於母法 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5692.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5708.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
裡面是一定要有書面告誡啊但我們已經授權你有很多緊急的事情可以直接處理喔這個是你們的上方保健啊我就要問問你們用的如何啊這沒關係你會後再給我資料就好了你會後再給我資料就好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5708.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5729.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
你這個可以去讓很多人知道說什麼這個平均什麼三十幾天什麼的我要了解的就是有這個好你會後再給我那再來現在數位跟監或什麼也很多我不知道這個署長我們這邊你們現在有什麼方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5729.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5758.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
那數位的這個部分當然就要知道是誰要去做跟監所以一定要調資料嘛就最主要要跟這個網路平台直接調他的那個他的使用者帳號的這個資料那這部分可能要配合數碼部的這些相關資料來做一個執行那確實現在這部分的時間大概要有一點時間剛剛很多人在問的就是我要了解他是不是在透過數位的這樣的一個跟監那調的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5759.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5787.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
所以要核發書面的時間可能會稍微長一點那如果說受理事業確定是一個根操製造身份有時候我們製造確定之後我們當面就可以核發了核發的這個比例大概有25%這一個就是要現在科技的進步很多也不是像我們以前這樣想的那麼簡單的事情那你們就是要去注意這一個另外 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5790.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5812.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
署長我們如果不管什麼社會秩序違法不管什麼什麼的我們就跟騷法我跟騷法如果你有給我書面啊告誡有給我什麼的話但我請徵信社區的話有沒有違法 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5813.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5835.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
徵信社的部分就是除非能夠連結調查這個跟騷人連結有連結的話那這個部分是他的應該幫助這個應該是也可以共同去做這件事情共犯的罪犯所以我現在問你啊如果以我們現行的法令來講啊對不對有沒有違法其實他有個斷點喔對啊就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5842.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5843.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
跟的人如果跟他共同意識的話應該也會過程 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5860.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5872.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
不是如果共同意識的聯絡我署長我提出這個並不是你有沒有承認如果我只限在耕燒法裡面這裡是不是一個漏洞 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5875.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5890.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
這個不一定有不同的應該有其他法律的適用啦我剛剛已經一直講了如果只限耕燒法對不對我的前提已經是這樣了我的意思就是說啦齁這個耕燒法到現在你看署長你如果他跟這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5892.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5910.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
教說這個教說者同樣的這個意思那當然是有分裂人應該是算了不是啦署長我為什麼要提出這一個不是要考你啦但是就是啊發現耕燒法裡面還有一些漏洞私情的你 我跟你講署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5911.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5914.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
再給我30秒署長你在這邊你都會猶豫了我們基層的員警他怎麼處理那我跟你講我如果說真心社他跟我講說這是商業糾紛什麼債務糾紛或什麼他講一堆沒有其他的意圖對不對沒有啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5928.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5947.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
這屌渣,你現在屌渣,基層的員警怎麼辦呢,太恨了我的意思就是說,這個啊齁,他就會有可能會閃過所以啊,今天跟燒法這個大家有說要來要來啊齁,要來修法,我的重點是在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5949.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
5977.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
我覺得啦我們今天開始這個那我剛剛聽到有很多委員說叫你幾個月叫你怎麼樣其實有很多事情還要去釐清我是希望說啊我們今天已經有這個了我們內政部警政署或是行政院也要去看然後我們提出更全方面的那我們不急著這一個月兩個月把這個處理好我覺得應該要更全面的去解決啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
5978.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
5983.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
希望你們也能夠提出你們的版本來這樣你們覺得如何?可不可以? |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
5987.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6015.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
報告委員那個我們需要比較多的時間來處理對啊對啊我說時間要多一點啦事涉多元啦剛委員的提案的部分呢我想要那個跟委員報告一下我們目前警政機關在處理所謂的書面告誡因為它門檻比較低其實是很快就出去但是相對的也會出現困擾已經有行為人就是加害人就書面告誡的性質提出憲法訴訟案 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6016.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6039.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
要求我們要設計法院的救濟程序否則也會影響他的權益也就是說我們提書面告誡很快大部分人希望說趕快解決問題可是加拿大人覺得說我就不是啊但是我們這樣子的一個提書面告誡的時候沒有其他的處罰規定已經可以降低九成那如果我們再把他所說的要提這個憲法訴訟的部分再加進去的話這個九成會繼續下降 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6040.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6066.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
所以這就是我們為難的地方那目前為止呢當然有修法的空間譬如說我們警員的教育他是什麼法律適用要再加強或者是其他的我們跟法務部跟衛福部跟司法院要怎麼做連結跟數位部做連結快速可以處理這一塊我們會來做其他的精進措施但是很匆忙上路只修短暫的一個部分把性跟性別刪掉的話整部跟騷法大概就沒有辦法完全處理這一塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6068.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6085.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
政府也能夠多多考量所以我的意思是說給你們多一點時間然後去全面去我們不急著一兩個月之內把它修給你們多一點時間讓你們提出你們的版本那我最後一個不能講說基層的遠景怎麼樣我跟你講 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6089.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6102.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
我們如果把他範例我們立法立好的話人家就好執行了啦這個日新月異的東西不能所有的東西都是基層員警扛這一點我要替他們講話謝謝好謝謝張宏祿委員謝謝接下來我們請黃婕委員訓大好謝主席您請署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6118.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6126.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
部長可以先休息 謝謝好 我贏了好 所長好 今天這個跟騷髮的修法我想問你 你覺得有必要嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6128.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6155.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
可以精進啊可以精進沒錯因為在四年前這個修法的利益非常良善可是在執行的過程當中當初啊其實我看了一下當初修法的這個過程很多人說這個與性和性別有關的這個要件不能加是因為說刑事局覺得說跟騷案一年可能會上達八千件覺得說這個量能可能處理不來但是這四年下來實際的數字是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6157.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6183.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
2025年去年全年只有2900件跟你們預估的不到4成那所以看起來其實是有能力能夠應付的那我也看一下說這個其實很多人跟我反映尤其是我自己也接過很多類似的案件啦就是甚至是我本人自己也有遇到這種騷擾型的事情就是可能以我接到的陳情人可能他就是一直給你打無聲電話 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6184.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6211.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
那或者說他持續的每天私訊你但是他換了一個帳號再繼續私訊你然後內容都是這種雖然是騷擾但是他就是避開那些性別有關的字眼那這種時候能用跟騷髮處理嗎不行所以這就是現在很多陳情人覺得最困擾的地方這個可能委員自己也看啦你這個當事人認為他是對你性別的這樣的概念我們大概就會認定 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6213.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6233.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
但事實上很多就是沒有辦法依照現行的跟騷法來處理所以我們才希望更精進把這些更明確的要件寫進去這個其實對基層員警來說他們只要要件更明確他們也更能夠方便執行因為其實基層員警他們說他們需要的是很明確的執法標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6234.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6250.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
所以我覺得我們接下來如果跟沙發能夠把他收的例如說用排除的其實很多民團都給意見例如說他們是在有一些什麼像是說他們有自己的可能債務的糾紛或者是說他們有之間有一些他們之間職務上的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6252.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6265.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
或者是他們是同事那必須要進行一些他是必須要跟他有一些接觸的所以不得不來進行這樣的接觸那這個其實你可以進行這些豁免條款啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6265.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6289.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
委員 這個部分應該也會掛一樓其實這個跟騷的核心價值就是對於姓北暴力這個區塊的補這些我剛才講就是跟家暴性侵跟性騷擾的這些的不足就是因為不足所以必須要補足啊這個跟騷的核心價值就是姓與姓北那其他的這些還有其他法律規矩做適用那被害人就是被跟騷人 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6290.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6305.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
他來他的主觀意識是很重要的他我們一定會問他說這個是跟你被跟或者是被無聲的被跟性有性別有沒有關係個人的主觀意識是非常重要的我們會根據根據主觀意識來做一個調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6306.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6333.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
這個主觀意識最重要嘛任何案件都是被案人來的主觀意識是那主觀意識在根據客觀的這些證據來調查那調查除了這個主觀的意識之外還有他的這個的是不是有沒有反覆比方像我一時候講的其實目前的要件基本要件都有啦就是說有沒有反覆持續有沒有違反意願有沒有新生未婦沒錯會影響他的日常生活現在這三點 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6335.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6356.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
夠了但是還是有很多沒有辦法被含納進去的被跟的人你第一時間你心裡的那個意願我們就會問嘛那這個就會確定會不會確定跟你姓北的關係就是會確定了那其他案件也是一樣我們這個案件都是案件的過程都一定是第一個你的這個來的這個狀況的意願是怎樣才來做其他證據的調查嘛所以這也不會漏接 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6365.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6383.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
什麼叫做不會漏接我現在就是有接到類似這樣子的陳情案尤其是很多是年輕女生他們就是有來跟我說那像是他們的情境是不是用跟騷法因為在第一線可能一線員警會覺得說就沒有跟性和性別有關呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6384.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6406.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
那個女性可能沒有描述清楚你怎麼會怪罪被害人啊不是啊 我的意思就是說女性沒有描述清楚他就是在當下已經非常恐懼了所以他把他遇到的情境講出來你現在說他自己沒有描述清楚所以不適用跟搜法我們現在搜法不就是想要保障這群人嗎要保障 當然要保障女性啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6407.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6423.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
報告委員那個我想我們都知道說跟騷法裡面的這個被害人大概九成以上都女性是的那所以我們跟騷法怎麼樣讓他更完善是我們今天討論的重點是的但是有兩點我一定要澄清第一個我們警察到現在沒有人在吃案 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6424.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6450.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
但是他所引用的法條是不是適用跟騷法或者是其他的設置法或是家暴法或是等等這些我想我們內部還會有比較多回訊的時候呢或在情務上面會再多加清楚這一點我們要確定但是呢我也要強調那個不是說被害人說是用跟騷法然後加害人說不是跟騷法那這個部分就涉及到警方他們在確認的時候用哪一個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6451.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6475.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
我們就是希望基層的員警能夠有更明確的執法的依據這個部分我們會更明確的告訴他但是您所說的要用排除法或是用正面表列這個部分恐怕會掛一漏萬但是我有一點可以確定我們基層警員非常辛苦而且一定不會持案只不過是用什麼樣的法律來處理報案者他自己本身是遭受到的高案 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6477.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6491.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
我們今天在這邊討論跟騷髮的修法就是希望可以支持基層的員警讓他們有更明確的執法依據所以我們在今天不是說什麼警察治安的問題我是希望我們的法律要讓基層員警能夠執行啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6492.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6509.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
對不對所以我們如果有這些更明確的要件列出來員警一看就知道你這個是或不是他不需要很多時候必須要進行自己的判斷然後承擔這麼大的壓力我們今天說法的目的是這樣希望給他們更有用更實在的工具 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6510.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6534.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
那我還有兩點 因為時間的關係一個是這個處遇的計畫 必須要講說現在我們的這個處遇計畫是一個很大的漏洞因為很多時候法官判下來呢他們要核發處遇必須要先鑑定行為人有沒有處遇的必要結果現在這個鑑定費署長你知道誰要出嗎誰要先鑑定嗎 沒錯被害人他必須要自己先出可能這個幾萬塊的鑑定費 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6537.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6561.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
這樣合理嗎這部分可以修法啦這個部分要拜託署長這部分我們希望這一次如果這個精進的方案進去也一併的納入怎麼會讓被害人自己要幫那個加害人出這個鑑定費啊你講得很有道理這個同意要修法是的這個拜託署長最後一點這個頒發緊急保護令的時間因為其實家暴裡面他們緊急保護令兩個小時就可以下來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6562.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6588.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
但是在這個根梢法裡面 平均還是要34到36天這個是不是司法院今天有 是對 所以我這邊是希望 好 請司法院這邊我想要建議喔 明確的建議這個34到36天的這個時間很容易變成被害人再一次遭遇騷擾甚至是更嚴重的威脅的空窗期 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6589.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6600.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
所以我這邊是希望說我們是不是也能夠再加快這個頒發保護令的時間那甚至是可以跟比照加報他們緊急保護令兩個小時就下來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6602.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6631.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
謝謝委員吹詢那這部分先跟委員報告這個部分本院已經有通函提醒各個法院在處理跟騷保護令的事件必須要託訴審理那第二點就是因為跟騷法目前並沒有緊急保護令的制度但是因為跟騷行為他本身已經入罪剛剛有跟委員報告過了就是如果被害人個人有急迫危險的狀況其實可以趕快提出跟騷罪的告訴那檢警機關這邊一定會針對急迫的行為來急速的處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6631.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6652.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
對好謝謝那我希望是我們接下來如果要討論跟燒法的修法一併把這個緊急保護令放進去那未來也拜託司法院這邊可以再通令下去說這個核發的速度一定要快好嗎這個部分如果後續法治建立了之後法院會配合辦理謝謝謝謝黃婕委員接下來我們請廖先祥召委請選擇 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6665.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6669.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
謝謝主席啊 署長不會去喔 哈哈哈 留著留著那部長 部長署長 還有我們司法院喔 幾個這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6673.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6701.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
客觀的統計數據先請教一下我其實首先啦這還是覺得警察辛苦了啦這個其實在更殺法後來這個都是對警察同仁都是新的業務要去熟悉那每個同仁可能在執法上面的認知有時候有時候每個人也都不一樣那就可能造成執法上面的一些落差那有時候會跟大家所期待的會不一樣啦但法定處理大家就一起精進讓他變得更好啦第一個就是我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6702.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6723.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
民眾報案跟警方發出告誡函的這個比例我們有沒有大家統計過有 我們就是說這個順便告誡我們大概90%順便告誡完之後他就會停止這些的跟騷了我是說報案 就是剛剛有講到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6724.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6749.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
是不是用這個跟騷法不是這個檢舉人說了算那也不是這個被檢舉人說了算嘛對不對沒有 這個問答沒有這樣我們現在就是從開始這個法之後到現在的這個跟騷法到11703件對 我的意思是說就是會有一個總數的一個報案總數嘛報案的總數那裡面有多少對我們警方來說是成案的有沒有類似的 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6751.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6779.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
這個部分我們可能就是可能很難會做這樣的一個所以沒有辦法統計說成案的比例是多少好那沒關係那我們成案了之後譬如說告誡了之後那還有相關的行為那就是疑情的委婉這個告誡書會進入到保護鏈的狀況司法這邊嘛那我想確認一下你們這邊或司法院有沒有統計我們移送的這個根梢的保護鏈成案的一個比例這應該就會有那個確切的數字比例了吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6779.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6789.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
有這個就是那個違反那個保護令有663件這是順便告知之後違反保護令有663件那依照職權申請有80件就是緊急的這個就是保護令的部分所以我們移送了600多件663件 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6802.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6817.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
663遺送然後這663司法院都或是說法官這邊都有發出保護令都有發嗎全書都有發嗎這個有保護令的部分我想跟司法院確認一下不是現在就是說我有保護令有400 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6819.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6836.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
有四百四十八件啦四百四十八是違反的?對 違反的然後我們的投訴都移送了嗎?移送就是跟抄的行為罪有六千兩百六十一件就是違反跟抄的行為的我們就是發這個書費告誡 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6839.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6849.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
發誓命告誡有11703件有6261件他再度在違反了就是有跟抄行為有6261件是然後我們違反了之後不就是應該要移送到司法機關嗎對 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6859.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6881.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
如果跟燒罪的移送司法機關要申請保護令直接跟法官申請就不用跟地檢署了跟法官申請的保護令有多少成案的比例這部分有沒有統計司法院有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6883.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6894.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
就是民眾告誡了發了嘛那有在違反了那有警方這邊在送給法官那法官裁定這個更燒保護令的比例不曉得司法院有沒有統計 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6898.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6915.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
因為過去啊我先說一下因為過去有很長一段就大家討論獨駕這件事情啊很常常我們警方函送了之後法院的一個裁判常常不符合民眾的一個期待啦那我不確定在跟上保護令這上面的一個發放的一個情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6916.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6943.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
這個部分我們逐年逐月都有統計的數據然後相關的裁判可以公開的也有公開在那你手邊有資料嗎目前沒有沒有那可不可以那就會後提供會後提供好不好好那我想這一些客觀的數據就分階段嘛一部分是警方一部分是法官這一邊那大家就是希望說看到一些背景的統計數據才會認為說這個法他有沒有一些調整工序或者需要再加強的一個地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6943.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
6971.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
那另外回到法的本身我想確認一下因為今天有一個包括我本人有一個提案的修法就是說要不要限定在姓或姓上面這件事情那當然目前部這一邊是認為維持原條文那有一種特殊的情況如果說是委託徵信社這樣子的一個行為委託徵信社然後他來進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
6972.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
6995.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
我可能是對他有不良的一個目的但是我不是本人來做這樣的行為而是委託徵信社但是徵信社並不會知道我的目的是什麼嘛對不對或許我只要跟徵信社說我只要他的一些那個行蹤或一些身為坐騎等等的那這部分如果我們的陳情人要對這個徵信社來進行剛剛說的書面告誡的一個申請的話報案的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7001.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7022.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
我們這邊大概會怎麼判定?第一個判定當然是被跟蹤人的情境意願他的感知狀況是怎麼樣他可能認為被跟的狀況是被暧昧跟性有關係我們也是會用這案件來做調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7022.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7037.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
對 那調查了之後 證信社說不是啊 我只是單純送禮那我們會追啊 我們會追他的這個他的上尉是不是那個真正的教授他的要去做這樣的行為啊這個要根據要做來做調查啊那這個問得大嘛 這又多了一層 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7038.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7057.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
那當然就很多其實警察要調查的這個工作當然是都出眾複雜一定會釐清他所有的涉案的過程內進所以說我們常常要認定是不是在性上面有關的當然職官上面會認定說所以我們第一個第一時間出辦被害人來講的這個是跟他的性與性別有關係我們大概出辦就會認定啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7058.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7079.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
只要是這個被跟的人主觀的對於性與性別我們都會做這樣的一個出判然後呢再加上他是不是會是不是這個行為是反覆的狀況再來就是他的心聲是不是有未撲的所以我們原則上在行政作業上面最主要的還是依據 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7081.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7100.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
這個報案人他的心理的感受當然心理的感受是最重要啊他的確定不然這個性與性賠沒辦法去做確定也不能我們跟他說你這個就是性與性賠一定是被案人心理的這個感受他心理的來報案的這個意向最重要啊這個才能是一個出版嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7101.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7113.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
當然如果是以這個申報人來當作這個員警判斷的依據的話那當然條文上面要不要有性或者是要不要擴大範圍那我就認為維持原條文大概可以現在是已經有八大類的樣態未來如果說是不是有 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7120.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7148.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
更嚴密的方式那未來還可以再做解決為什麼當初會有這樣的一個其他或者是其他委員有這樣子的一個草案的一個修法草案那就是怕當然啦我們直觀上認為那只要跟性有關就好因為它法的一個精神就在這邊嘛但是就像我剛剛講的可能在加害人上面他或許會用一些其他方式來規避這樣子的法律那就涉及到個案的一個判斷那如果說涉及個案判斷的方面我們如果說在行政指導上面都是支持同仁來 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7150.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7168.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
協助報案人的話而不是單純就法令面的逐字逐字去探討的話那我覺得這樣子的一個方式是我目前還可以接受的啦是 好不好那以上 好 謝謝謝謝 謝謝廖先祥召委 謝謝接下來我們請王宏威委員詢答 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7175.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7194.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
謝謝主席 部長和署長都還在台上其實署長部長今天看起來變成大家聚焦說你們同不同意在修法過程裡面把性或性別有關的這樣一個描述取消掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7195.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7198.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
那剛才也提到因為其實這種跟騷的態樣非常非常多那為什麼很多委員都提到就說應該把姓或性別把它取消那我覺得從今天早上部長啊署長談到現在我都感覺說是有點就是警察機關嫌麻煩 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7218.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7237.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
因為說這種跟騷的這個特讓賽太多啦那如果你把性或性別拿掉了之後那可能有各式各樣的跟騷你們通通要處理那沒有錯啦其實我們了解基層緣起現在人力不足那其實他的勤務也非常的繁忙 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7237.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7254.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
但是呢像剛才特別提到的在監察院他在調查其中有一個案例是什麼呢就是他的同事原來熱烈的追求他那他就拒絕拒絕之後這個同事呢以所謂他欠錢說他欠錢去就是跟騷他當他去跟警局報案的時候這個案例呢警方是不受理 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7267.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7282.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
警方為什麼不受理呢他說這跟性或性別無關呢這是欠錢的問題啊可是他沒有他等於說只採信了下半段而前半段是這個同事曾經熱烈的追求他 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7283.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7305.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
所以從熱烈追求他然後轉換成說以他欠錢然後這樣繼續的跟騷他而我們警方卻不受理所以這也就是說為什麼我今天有這麼多委員提出這樣的修法我還是希望當然內政部跟警政署能夠多多在就是可以研究啦因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7306.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7320.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
以現在來說 譬如講有一陣子大家會比較關心的就是狗仔的跟蹤狗仔跟蹤那當然也是也是構成跟騷啊但它無關於性或性別嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7322.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7337.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
那你就說這個有社會秩序維護法來規範就有其他法來規範好那譬如講說討債也是討債也是那或者是說剛才廖軒翔委員講到的可能徵信社也是 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7338.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7356.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
那你都說有其他的法律去規範但是呢因為我們今天為什麼要有跟騷這個防治法那也就是讓一些民眾可以讓他覺得他可以來得到來自於警方跟法院的支持跟協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7357.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7373.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
所以我們今天如果把性或性別有關拿掉我承認可能會造成警發更多的情惡問題他可能受理那可能受理的件數更多非常有可能可是剛才我舉的那個例子 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7374.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7392.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
你說他是跟性或性別無關嗎而且我也要提醒其實這種被跟騷的不單純只是女性而已我就知道有一位廣播節目主持人他是男性他每天就是因為這個廣播節目都是有固定這個節目 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7394.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7415.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
反正就有人在那個他們的公司固定在等他等他下節目這是男性啊這也有這樣的狀況所以我希望說能夠就這個性或性別有關的部分你們能夠再做一些研究不要一下子就認為NO NO NO反正說有其他的這個法令相關可是 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7416.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7433.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
有一些的這個跟騷啊他其實名為是其他的理由或藉口但是他恐怕還是跟性或性別有關好另外一個啊剛才為什麼黃婕委員對剛才對那個署長的這個回答會有一些不高興 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7435.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7459.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
在整個的跟搜的報案當中很多的女性認為受到歧視認為受到歧視就像如果講說你案情講得不清楚嘛而且不可避免的我們在現在呢還是以男性的遠景居多男性的遠景居多所以當他去報案的時候他恐怕就會面臨到 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7460.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7483.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
你這樣講的是對的嗎這也是在監察院她在訪談的過程裡面有很多的女性報案 還有報案但是她有非常不舒服的感覺 甚至她去告警察她就是認為說她被歧視第一個她可能覺得這個恐怕就是我們可以改進的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7484.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7507.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
他認為他沒有一個私密的空間讓他去敘述這個事情因為就可能我覺得在說啊你來報案我來報案反正一堆人啊那他可能要講的一個就是他覺得可能難以啟齒或他非常擔心他甚至怕被報復他甚至怕被報復尤其地方上搞不好警察就已經很認識那個常常去跟監他的人啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7508.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7534.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
那他就已經很緊張了可是他沒有一些私密的空階這是其一第二個就是可能男性遠景比較多一點男性遠景可能講話大剌剌的真的嗎真的有這種事嗎會讓他有被歧視的感覺甚至他因此而不敢就乾脆算了或者他覺得他沒有辦法很清楚的 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7535.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7559.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
去詳述他所受到的待遇所以我想這一個部分是不是也可以就是這個在我們第一線這不需要修法啦對不對這可能在員警的訓練的時候教育的時候碰到這種跟騷案件第一個能夠給這個當事人多一點隱密性的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7561.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7562.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
我們今天有司法院的專委法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7588.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7610.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
委員好這個部分就是說你們在核發這個保護令保護令其實你的內容其實是很多的比如說你核發保護令大半就是說絕大多數就是禁止監視行為這是大概是最多禁止監視 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7611.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7631.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
禁止你跟他打電話對不對然後你不要去盯梢他住的場所或辦公的場所這個都很正常所以這個你一旦發保護令的時候你這些都很多但是喔老實講啊我個人認為很多一直去跟殺人家的我覺得他應該受到輔導啊他的心理應該受到輔導啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7635.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7655.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
是不是同意吧一直去跟著人家追求不成或者你明明已經離婚了當然你說有那種暴力行為我們之前發生的明明就已經那個保護令下去然後還當街殺了他的這個前妻跟他的小姨子這個是很嚴重的暴力犯罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7656.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7679.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
但是很多跑去跟騷的跑去破壞的跑去一直什麼打電話的人家發一個限動你就要跑去說我馬上來什麼等等之類我都覺得他的心理問題應該是要被輔導的可是在我們法院合法的這些跟騷保護令裡面我剛才講 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7680.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7696.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
禁止監視 禁止打電話什麼禁止你到人家的住所什麼 這些比較多但是 要求他去做治療性處遇的非常非常非常的少那我們法院其實有工具這他們 要去進行一下輔導啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7706.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7713.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
讓他們要去上課或者是那個什麼接受心理輔導怎麼會一直不停的去騷擾人家 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7714.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7737.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
對不對我覺得我們法院其實是有很多的工具我們今天大部分討論就是說希望法院能夠加快這個保護令我們警察單位能夠加快這個強制的這個警戒的處分但是我覺得另外一方面對於這些一直去跟騷騷擾人家的人我覺得也要讓他 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7739.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7747.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
我覺得他是不是時間就太多了閒著沒事做 一直去跟騷人家是幹嘛讓他去上課啊 讓他去看一下醫生啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7748.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7778.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
可不可以像這一部分也可以做一些加強好 感謝委員垂詢那委員這部分的意見其實我們非常認同那但是 誠如剛才警政署也有跟那個其他委員報告過就是目前我們的治療性處於計畫它有一些困難就是在於這個部分首先必須要加害人配合前往鑑定再來就是鑑定的費用依照現行法制的話是被害人必須要負擔那所以這個部分警政署剛剛也有回應說這邊他們會做修法的行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7778.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7803.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
那至於這個認知教育輔導的部分這個部分其實也已經由法院裁定合法這一類的保護令了那這一部分是因為他在執行的層面這個部分到底是屬於警政署或者是衛福部的職權他們可能彼此之間有一些稍微不同的想法可能必須要在這部分可能就是要讓主管機關這邊再來處理那如果這一個部分的問題得到解決之後相信法院這邊是樂於配合的 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7805.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7822.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
對我認為就讓他們要去上上課看看他的這個心理啊那個這樣子的話才會慢慢慢慢可不可以就是不是只是只是就是應該從根本去解決他的問題好不好好謝謝謝謝王宏威委員接下來我們請黃秀芳委員詢答謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7836.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7862.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
謝謝主席 署長針對今天所有我們的委員都非常關心的這個耕燒的防治法的這個修正那當然就是說這個樣態真的非常的多那我也看到就是說我們這個耕燒法的防治這個防治法從上路到現在四年左右那我們看到就是說高達88%大部分都是女性 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7863.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7886.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
那其實也有這個百分之十幾的那個樣態真的都非常的多那我想請教就是說其實在這個制度上今天很多委員講其實還有很多需要精進的地方那我想請教就是說在這個四年當中其實我們警政署也好或者是內政部甚至今天的這個司法機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
7887.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
7904.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
就是說我們還有什麼地方可以再做得更好另外就是說我們剛剛很多委員也有特別提到就是說家暴的這個保護令就是說平均超過這個兩個小時左右就可以核發那這個根梢的這個保護令可能要 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
7905.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
7920.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
高達一個多月的這個時間那當然剛剛有特別提到就是說我們這個可以時間可能也可以再縮短我想請教一下就是說署長針對這一部分未來我們要怎麼去精進或者是你要再跟其他的部會怎麼去做協調 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
7922.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
7933.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
跟委員報告當然第一時間就是能夠制止我們90%宿命告捷之後他就會停止更燒嘛那另外剛剛委員所提的就是說那個保護令的那個時間那保護令時間當然是 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
7936.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
7959.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
我們司法院的這個這樣的一個狀況那對於這個緊急的部分當然還是可以配合就是說因為法院那邊的這個時間現在大家大概對這方面有所說能夠加快一點那對於如果說是緊急的部分在警方那邊因為跟沙發這個也是有入罪的 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
7960.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
7980.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
也可以做這個刑案的一些相關的偵查不管是在居體或者是在做生壓都可以如果緊急的話是可以做這樣的處理那未來我想就是說我們還會跟市辦來做這樣的協調聯繫是不是在保護令的這個核發的時間能夠儘速加快來做一個核發 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
7981.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
7999.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
那有時候在這個我們算是空窗期就是說這個被害人他有報案然後到核發這個保護令可能這中間就是說在這個我們司法單位也好或者是我們警察局這邊可以做什麼樣的來彌補這個可能制度上面的一個缺漏 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8000.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8021.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
因為這個有一些時間性啦那當然我們大概會聯繫這個被跟蹤者的這個相關的這個相關的這些資料做這些聯繫我們警察機關的一個管道比如講說這個因為如果保護令如果說這個是其實這樣子我順便告誡已經已經已經下去了他會來跟來報那就是會違反那個順便告誡就會申請保護令嘛那如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8027.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8042.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
這段的期間我們會做這樣的一個被跟燒者的聯繫的管道給在地的我們警察機關可以隨時聯繫這些相關保護的這個事宜其實我們看到這個六月份那個職棒啦啦隊的那個成員 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8044.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8065.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
這個耕燒然後就被傷害的這個狀況其實在目前有很多是狂粉他可能就是喜歡這個歌星也好這是這個啦啦隊的這個成員他就非常喜歡然後就變成是從這個崇拜然後可能就喜歡然後進而有可能就變成一個傷害 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8066.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8094.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
那有時候我們看到就是說目前的這個狀況就是說如果這個歌星也好或者是任何一個人啊你只要可能被跟蹤或者是被騷擾其實有時候會覺得說心裡面不舒服但是不舒服可能又還沒有達到很嚴重的一個程度那像這樣子的話怎麼辦各位報告這個如果被跟著不管是影星、歌星或者是這個拉布的這個狀況他 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8096.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8102.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
如果說心裡面就是被跟姓李姓北的這樣的一個狀況那有這樣彷彿心裡會未卜 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8108.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8126.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
來報案我們就會朝更殺法來做處理那因為剛才那個案例我們進來警察不知道他的這個狀況那我們看到這個血洗之後馬上就跟聯繫那就這個案子已經有做不管是在傷害或者是三五一歲也有做羈押那我的意思就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8128.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8148.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
要鼓勵鼓勵這些被跟著要來報案要來報案只要他覺得不舒服不舒服覺得這不如要做反覆我們會做這個如果說是現在當然這步伐最主要當然是針對你男性也有大概百分之八十八以上都是女性那女性的這樣床褥被跟她的心裡的感覺是 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8149.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8158.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
他感覺跟性與性別有關那又他心裡又覺得會有一點畏怖那又有一點反覆那我們就會出辦就是過程 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8161.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8184.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
我們就會知道身份跟的人的身份之後我們就會第一時間就會知道這個事就會核發書門的告誡那通常都是在第一個可能就是在派出所這樣子有任何警察單位都可以在派出所在偵查到分局的偵察隊都可以所以剛剛有很多委員有特別提到就是說我們所有第一線警察同仁的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8185.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8201.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
教育訓練其實也非常重要有的警察他可能覺得說這個好像也沒有那麼嚴重不會啊 這個其實警察是依法來做執法所有的法律都是要依法 要有它的過程要見每個人的感受程度是不一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8202.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8222.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
所以我會覺得說可能就是說第一線的警察同仁的教育訓練其實是非常重要的接下來我想請教很多委員有特別提到就是說我們在這四年當中法院只有核發四件的治療性的五件也有五件 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8223.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8248.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
目前是五件嘛那五件的治療性的處遇保護令嘛那其實只有一件是目前是只有一件是完成是只有完成這樣的一個治療性的保護令所以我想請教就是說剛剛你們也特別提到就是未來可能就是警政署或者是衛福部這邊可能一個認定的方式是不是也要一個跨部會的去做一個協調 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8250.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8271.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
這個部分就是剛剛委員有提的就是牽涉到這些性處遇的這些的計畫那要去做鑑定前期法官會叫你先做鑑定那鑑定的申請的這個費用現在是申請人也就是被跟蹤者啦我覺得這個部分好像應該可以盡進應該可以再做修法那現在認定了這個狀況大概當然這個件數少 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8276.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8292.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
應該是這樣子啦 如果說這個建立這個費用應該是不多啦對 這個部分如果說 因為我們大概衛生部這邊如果說這個建立完衛生部大概可以做補助啦可以做補助 未來可能修法這樣就未來修法 你們就朝這個方向來處理吧對 這個部分我們會把它修進去 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8296.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8323.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
好我們希望就是說真的這個有時候就跨部會要去做一個協調這個確實是要把它修進去好我們希望就是說透過今天的這樣的一個詢問之後然後各部會的一個協調工作應該要更完善然後讓這部法能夠更完全能夠真正的能夠保護我們所有的這個被害人是的好謝謝委員好謝謝黃秀芳委員謝謝接下來我們請劉建國委員詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8326.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8331.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
我第一題先請部長,今天主席特別排這個跟沙發這樣的一個法案,我想我們必須要重新快速來做檢視 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8347.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8350.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
所以部長根據民間團體指出目前台灣違反根梢華對於書面告誡然後罰者輕微同時根梢華的起訴率僅有31.5%那其一審判決對華清或是居宇為主 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8369.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8396.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
對加害人的行程有下的威懾我想是效果有限那另外加害人一旦得知受害人有具體法律的行動的時候能自然而退是最好但是加害人若自己的這個行為已經出現的偏執妄想或是情緒失控的情況之下就可能會變成更激進的行為這也是讓很多受害人在面對跟少的時候甚至無法尋求協助的一個原因那同樣的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8398.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8424.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
南韓在這樣的一個過程內也都有遭遇到所以南韓跟我們一樣也在2021年通過這個跟騷法然後南韓承認南韓政府承認他們整體的執行率的狀況是不佳然後在南韓有這樣的案例跟部長做一個分享一名知名網紅長期遭狂熱粉絲的跟蹤騷擾原有家人入獄之後就可能重獲瓶頸 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8425.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8448.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
那未料對方還在獄中再度記性恐嚇還給他寫說很快就見面我會去找你等等的字眼讓被案人與家屬再度陷入這個恐懼因此南韓政府在6月24號正式推出一款反跟蹤的APP然後允許受害者及時查看佩戴電子腳印的跟蹤者的及時位置 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8449.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8478.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
若跟蹤者過於接近受害者APP會向監控中心發出警報然後再由監控中心向警方進行通報這個是藍藍在2021年的時候跟沙發生物然後他們在2026推出這個反跟蹤APP時間跟台灣是一樣但是我們看到藍藍政府有這樣的一個決心要保護他們人民台灣政府能不能接近不然怎麼看這個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8479.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8501.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
謝謝委員的關心我想委員一定非常清楚我想跟性跟性別有關的部分其實在我們的法律裡面除了一般的設置法之外跟騷法是其中之一但是還有性騷擾防治法或者是其他的交報的法案所以如果有報案的人到警察局尋求協助這個部分就是有討論的空間譬如說大家知道現在這個網紅 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8503.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8521.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
或者說這個這個職棒的這個這個啦啦隊的明星受到這個騷擾的時候呢是警方從這個媒體上面才知道就表示說長久以來我們並沒有接到報案的部分這個是一個我們必須要突破的一個盲點那這個呢很不太可能在法律上做修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8521.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8543.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
那再來就是說跟抄法的樣態裡面的他其實是補足我剛剛所說的更性相關的這個騷擾防治的三法裡面的其中的要項那我們是參考日本的法例來做這個所謂的處置所以我們在提告提供這個輸滅的告誡的時候呢其實有90%啊已經有達到提醒的效果當然沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8543.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8565.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
沒有法子我們參考日本的法律我知道啦對不起我不是要插你的話因為我的時間有限但是我現在講的說因為在定法之前我們只能一個討論這個清楚那我們執行一段時間是五年的那韓國執行五年了四年了那韓國立法的時間有跟我們一樣嘛但是他2026他就做這樣的一個修正我非常非常怎麼看待這個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8566.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8571.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
但是我認為我們在處理的過程當中比較有可能是在處理它的執行面的問題那執行面的問題裡面當然我們有參考一些空間譬如說剛剛所提到這個樣態裡面要不要再做比較明確的規範讓我們基層的警員在明確的規範的時候可以適用這是一個那另外一個就是我們跟包括衛福部或是包括數位部或是包括法務部之間的借接可不可以再快一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8592.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8618.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
讓那個如果要申請這個保護令的呢可以再快一點然後減少這個被害者他受到這個被害的這個畏怖的這個感覺所以呢我們很希望在執行面上做加強但是呢千萬不要把跟騷法裡面跟性跟性別有關完全去除掉因為完全去除掉的話就是撕掉我們原來所說的跟這個性的這個性別有關的相關的這樣的騷擾防治或是暴力防治是有關的講開了齁講開了方向不對對了齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8622.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8637.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
藍網的部分是針對有電子交流我要強調是這些事情但我們跟騷的罪犯基本上我們沒有跟他有執行電子交流的這樣的一個做法所以這個顯然是有很大的落差我是說這個要不要做這樣一個借鑒就這樣而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8640.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8654.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
目前就是跟婦女救援基金會的一個相關的調查訪問被害人的這個結果科技監控看似保護被害人但是實則將危險壓力跟責任轉嫁到被害人目前這個區塊現在持保守的態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8655.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8678.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
你們是只跑走態度嗎?我還是請部長跟署長來做一個思考可能國情也不一啦,那相關的法律基本上依序也不太一樣這個是不是可以讓我們接近?雖然你現在回答我,這樣我能夠理解但是我們可能還要有更好的一個因應作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8680.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8704.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
我想這樣才是可以讓這個被燒跟蹤的人得以得到我們政府更加以這樣的一個幫助跟協助免於恐懼應該是這樣反正是一個自由民主的國家針對這種慣性的犯罪行為我們到底可以怎樣可以更進一步一些是不是有所可以在座以這樣一個盤整 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8705.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8722.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
我們可以來檢討啦但是我剛剛也跟其他的委員報告過也有這個加害者啊他已經去提憲法訴訟他的意思是說我們這樣規範裡面呢其實在法律的明確性不夠所以他提出憲法訴訟的部分那這個也是我們必須要考量的其中之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8722.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8748.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
所以今天早上才排這個案要趕快來針對我們但是有關科技監控的部分也會造成困擾因為跟性的騷擾有關的有的時候是互相認識的人他們會有家屬或其他的親友也會有各種不同的情緒勒索那這個可能跟南韓的國情不一定完全相似但是我們願意來研究好 謝謝一個月可以研究出來可以把相關的一些報告給我們做參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8748.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8753.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
是不是兩個月兩個月兩個月好謝謝謝謝部長謝謝署長謝謝主席好謝謝謝謝劉建國委員接下來我們請吳祁銘委員詢答好召委一位同仁請部長跟署長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8778.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8802.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
市長 部長 針對根梢法 根梢法在過去四年的實施針對有很多需要來改善的 需要再來做修改本身是非常靈動但是過去我們的根梢法都是注重在性別的方面希望這次我們可以來做整個來做修改 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
8803.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
8805.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
是不是說幅度可以放寬,這是應該會符合說被害者大家的訴求,是不是請市長來做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
8813.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
8835.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
好那這部分我想就是很多委員都提到這些的跟沙法的要去做一個修正啦那目前我們是針對姓與姓北的部分最主要就是這部跟沙法的核心價值那其他的這些可能認為要一起來做報案的其他法律已經都會有做規範包括市政法 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
8836.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
8862.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
或者刑法或者是組織犯罪其他法律也都有做規範那你如果全部把它跑到這個根操法來那對於其他的法制是有一些一些不同的這個地方那第二部分就是說能夠能夠再做更精進的就是剛剛有提的就是對於這一些的一個性處意的這一些的這一些的一個相關的一個核定需要那個鑑定 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
8863.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
8874.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
那鎮定費現在的一個更加有規範是升錢的也就是被更加人要付錢要付這個金額這個可能不太符合這個道理阿文未來我們這邊會朝這個修法來做一個修正因為我們過去已經是4年了在這4年中間我們可以找出很多問題來做改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
8881.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
8899.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
這就是說 大家說一波 我們會用的一波法我們就要說 讓全民大家可以來接受尤其對保護這方面的被害者有更加的作用再來就是我前面說的保護令尤其我們的保護令 它的申請的時間要到35天因為在我的選區裡面 也發生有申請保護令 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
8905.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
8916.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
但是這個支援一隊都去給他們安抬勢因為我以前也聽美輝說我們可以去申請一個保護令這對方都是為了那些極端嘛對社會都申請社會的不滿對他們家庭一定有極大的不滿 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
8926.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
8941.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
所以說這會造成一種秘局這就是說在這保護令的部分我們是不是說可以說來做修改有申請保護令我們在京豐一定要這裡派我們的警力下去維護不要說讓這個北市可以說重蹈覆轍尤其那天他們就是在法院在開庭所以說這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
8950.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
8977.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
等於說在這個部分是不是說我們的執法單位需要再加強的部分是 有人報告一下這位不是在跟少爺有可能在這裡報告那一天保一令的時間因為這是他要合法的時間是使用司法院把關的這個時間那當然都委員大概有提到過了這部分應該是可能要請教司法院的這個部分能不能有再做精進的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
8978.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
8995.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
因為我們既然說要做修改,不管說過去我們的保護令也好,包含我們的渡假,我們在大市長有來,以及我們的渡假,也是非常嚴重所以你看我們過去,不管說在我們的經營的思想、三點步,跟我們土層,這都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9001.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9008.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
可以發生這種秘局是大家都不願意看到所以說我們要如何來好治這個獨家的部分甚至說在我們的行政方面再加重尤其我們全民大家都能夠透氣這個獨家、這個獨品的氾濫這是這個部分應該是我們要著重的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9023.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9040.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
有三個部份,第一部份就是案頭,第二就是查詞,第三就是訟詢,行政院已經有14項措施,法律維修處罰刑法的部分有加重,另外就是大家條例,人的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9041.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9059.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
會有做預防性的擠壓再來就是車輛會做沒入源頭的那個電子菸也會做處罰沒入都採重刑我們現在警察在做的委員大概每天看電視我們全力警察大概就是外馬中央單位的警力機支援地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9060.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9087.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
去做加強這一些的一個對於獨駕的一個相關見景率的這個期目讓人民心安那目前現在看起來現在目前看來因為剛開始大概是5月23、24那一天5月到6月中大概一天大概有七八十件那目前看起來應該現在看起來就是有往下降的這個趨勢應該現在看起來就是從源頭的法治的一個相關的修訂採重法重法重刑 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9089.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9098.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
我們家常在用攔截的這個勤務還有這些毒品的取締源頭我想這個毒價可以可以可以應該是可以遏止了 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9100.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9121.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
好 因為我們台灣的毒品這個部分 也要拜託警政署和內政部多宣傳讓我們很多 因為現在的校園入侵 尤其很多家庭都在擔憂所以可以說暗訪的教育來著手 讓大家簽名 大家有共識毒品的危害程度 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9121.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9138.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
我們的政府跟我們的執法單位我們也很用心來做但是這個部分也希望可以做選團讓我們的社會大眾大家對我們政府更加有信心這本身是我們的戰略戰略來做選團跟地方我們也是有泡鴨餅有泡鴨餅就在選團這都很好感謝謝謝謝謝謝謝吳啟明委員謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9163.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9165.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
好 下一位我們換李柏益在位 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9169.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9191.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
謝謝,部長請回座,我先跟署長來講一些精進的方式其實署長剛剛有一些沒有表達得很好,沒有表達得很清楚我會給你機會讓你再表達清楚一點第一就是為什麼我今天會來安排這個跟燒法的先安排詢答 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9192.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9194.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
的原因,那我希望經過這個詢答讓在修法討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9199.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9228.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
完成前那警政署這邊可以精進的部分那做一下精進的措施包含剛很多委員講到的這個受理的部分或者是員警受理的時候怎麼樣依據的部分可以做一個更明確更清楚的一個保護可能的被害人那所以包含剛剛署長講到的我相信這個是跟燒法的精神精神就是說當 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9230.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9244.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
有人去報案那警察局這邊警政署這邊讓當事人感受到這個可能加害人或者是這個行為人他可能已經受到警告那 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9245.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9262.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
你剛講的要第二次才會收到書面告誡嗎第一次來報案如果說符合跟騷的要件第一次就可以順便告誡好 這個很重要不是說報兩次案才有第一次報案我們認為符合跟騷要件就會合法書面告誡好 署長這個我要請你 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9270.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9299.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
再加強做這個教育訓練不是第二次才做書面告解第一次就可以做書面告解當然部長剛剛有講到也有這個邢回仁他對於書面告解有提出釋憲但我覺得這個不影響警政署執法上對於保護被害人的這些相關的措施這個是第一時間所以我們書面告解有90%就制止 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9300.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9312.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
這個我們支持第二個很關鍵的要點就是說為什麼我其實對於這個個案其實我看了有一點生氣的原因就是因為其實這個個案裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9314.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9343.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
當事人的經紀公司已經明定禁止加害人參與他們的活動但是這個經紀公司卻沒有報案關鍵我剛有講就是沒報案反而還發出聲明說要求被害人不是要求被害人反而還發出聲明說被害人私接其他的工作所以才遭受這個行為我覺得非常不合理 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9344.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9373.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
那所以警政署這邊我想要跟警政署這邊討論的就是說針對這些所有的經紀公司我們要不要跟他們把請他們來跟他們做一下教育訓練可以啊這個沒問題這可以做嗎可以可以做啊可以做應該要啦可以做因為我們不知道除了這些藝人之外那我們其實第二個我們也希望所有的人不是只有藝人不是只有有經紀公司的這些藝人或者是拉拉隊 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9374.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9392.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
我們希望有可能接收到受到跟騷行為的人都很清楚明白了解他的權益在哪裡他怎麼樣會被受到保護這個是我們必須要加強的所以針對警政署的這個宣傳費用我想要請問署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9393.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9418.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
我們90%我想應該都著重在反詐的部分所以針對根梢我們其實我想很多社會也不知道它的相關的權益這個警政署是不是可以針對這一方面也加強做一些宣導這個宣導的部分我們也會加強這方面的一個宣導好那至於最後有沒有修法我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9419.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9440.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
我們必須要在這個包含我們現在做的這個研究報告裡面包含這個如果在修法之前應該要精進的這些措施剛剛有幾個委員提出來的這個方向也非常好其實我們針對性侵性騷等等的我們現在有規定是不是一定要有女性警員在場 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9442.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9464.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
如果是女性報案對就是性侵的這個部分大概就由女性來做受理如果被案人是女性對那跟騷的部分有沒有跟騷的部分現在目前沒辦法沒有明確規範沒有明確因為他的跟騷的部分用你的被跟騷如果是女性的話我們盡量就安排女性來做受理 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9465.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9483.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
對啦這樣才會比較有這個同理心啦才不會說去報案的時候到底他是適用跟騷還是說可能這個我們會認為可能不是跟騷可能是家暴或有可能是其他設置等等的相關的行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9483.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9483.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
所以綜合來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9498.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9523.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
我今天排審這個跟騷法我們有沒有要進一步來做修法以及修法以前那這個警政署有這些相關的精進的作為那我希望警政署不要說什麼限時一個月內那我希望署長可以馬上來做這個事情第一個針對這個經濟公司先找來教育訓練一下先告訴他們遇到相關的事情的時候要怎麼樣保護當事人第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9524.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9552.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
那要怎麼樣跟警方這邊做一個聯繫那警方至少也可以教他們至少可以預防這些案件的發生嘛那第二個針對剛才有一些大家可以來提出修法的部分我也希望警政署跟內政部提早做一個準備那我們下一次的時候那也希望有警政署這邊針對相關可以精進的部分需要修法的部分我們一併來做跟社會大眾做一個報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9553.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9575.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
沒問題好謝謝謝謝署長謝謝好謝謝李博弈各位我們先下一位徐欣穎委員好謝謝主席本席有請我們劉部長跟張署長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9582.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9603.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
好 部長 署長我們今天是在審查跟蹤騷擾防治法修正案那內政部的報告寫得很清楚我們跟騷法從111年6月一直施行到115年的5月全國的警察機關已經受理了11703件 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9606.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9635.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
其中有29730次的跟蹤騷擾行為最多的是通訊騷擾其次第二個是丁少尾隨我想這個不是少數的個案這個是人民每天面對真實的恐懼那我們今天要問一個最核心的事情就是內政部自己也講全國警察核發書面告誡 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9636.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9664.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
平均要12天那只有23.4%的案件可以在受理當天來核發那部長還有署長對政府來說這12天是行政流程但是對被害人來說這12天每天被跟 每天被堵 每天被訊息轟炸每天出門都要回頭看看有沒有危險的空窗那署長要補充一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9666.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
9683.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
這個委員的這個狀況就是說我們知道這個跟了這個這個身份之後我們當天核發的大概有25%就是當天就核發23.4%那至於這個11點就是對於這些身份不知道是在數位的空間就是網路的空間他不知道是誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
9684.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
9695.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
要知道這些的一個相關的這些的這個他的網址的他的那個帳號要知道這些跟蹤者是誰是這個時間是在查這個人所以如果我很明確的告訴這個警察說是誰有很明確的當天就會回報 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
9705.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
9730.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
所以這個是平均下來是平均不是說一個哨理案件就是要11點92點那就差太多了這個是因為在調查身份的不知道是誰那身份是在空中的是在網路的這一個時間要跟平台來調的所以即便當事人都不知道實體的他是誰不知道啊他不知道啊家人他不知道是誰啊如果知道的話那當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
9732.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
9749.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
一定很快一定馬上就很快那如果署長這樣講我們就接著續問那這個網路的不能加快嗎要十幾天那這照道理我們看之前有一些政府官員甚至總統副總統受到這種無形的這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
9751.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
9758.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
騷擾的話好像都很快啊還有沒有啦網路網路不能這麼快嗎沒有真的沒辦法這個其實這個有些同性戀大主管機關網路一定有可以在 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
9768.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
9788.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
這個看怎麼樣快這是不是你們跟這個網路的書發部所以是你們跟書發部這個之間的溝通還有他們協助的書發部跟平台的這個相關的這些的溝通今天書發部有沒有人來沒有書發有有有有好組長有一位施組長來書發部這個速度應該可以更快 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
9796.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
9815.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
以我們現在的這種科技還有我們國家這個監控各方面我們這個預算也很多啊這個我們會跟平台跟IDC業者來盡量溝通請他們加快調取的速度不要用盡量嘛以你們的經驗現在我們受理然後我們要去查到這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
9818.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
9844.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
這個你覺得最快速可以多短的時間嗎包委如果是依照我們本部主管的炸防條例的話一般來講大概是三天左右對嘛好啊那所以這個12天跟三天我們怎麼縮短那署長還有部長這邊書發布三天啊那難道是公文這個過程是公文嗎公文要公文那這樣我覺得國人的期待應該要更短 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
9845.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
9873.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
因為署長我相信您也有這個同理心嘛今天我可能因為如果我更不知道他是誰然後他透過網路我會開始想說那他是不是出現在我的生活中他只是用網路來跟騷嘛那可是他會不會出現在我生活中他在監控我我不知道所以這一塊我們這個希望來說只要是說這些的平台業者 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
9874.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
9883.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
多久時間可以讓我們我們就可以來做這件事原則上三天所以這一塊我們想要求啦我們是不是可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
9885.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
9905.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
把這12天再縮短這12天絕對不符合國人期待那再來本席也想請教我們是就這樣子就是說我們知道它這是一個根梢的一個行為知道這個行為之後永遠我們在72小時以內就可以合法順便告結書72小時以內就是說知道這些根梢的行為我們在72小時以內我們就可以合法順便告結書 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
9913.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
9925.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
所以好那太好了我們就能夠加速我們希望加速這個12希望下次看到數字的時候我們希望就這其實三天對當事人來說他都很痛苦 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
9926.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
9946.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
所以我們要特別強調的就是 我們這個跟騷最怕的不是沒有法 而是法在跑的流程 人卻已經進入危險所以我們希望這個時間 我們要再縮短好不好那這第一題 請那個訴發部可以回座 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
9947.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
9974.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
第二個就是我們看到內政部的報告說九成以上的跟騷案件警察介入或核發書面告誡後就停止再犯衛福部也引用了這個說法這個九成的嚇阻效果但是很多民眾跟我們反映所以我們現在要問你這個九成有效你們的有效是什麼意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
9974.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
9980.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
有效就是不會再跟他被案人被案人被案人不會再來報案了就是這個已經已經沒有停止跟騷了被案人有來再報案我們有核發順便告誡就會進入到申請保護令了 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
9989.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10013.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
所以這一塊我們想要請警政組就緊接來的今天如果說我給你核發順利告誡被害人又來報案的時候又跟了就進入到緊急保護令就進入到保護令了對對對這樣很直觀沒有錯但是這中間實際的情況很可能是我是被害人我因為害怕報復我不敢再報案這一個怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10015.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10018.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
我們要宣告所有的民眾一定要來報案 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10021.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10048.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
好然後加害人他就改用假帳號匿名訊息境外平台騷擾他沒有被抓到那這算不算也是也是所以要調查這個要調查對所以要調查所以是不是我們警政署這裡我們內政部可以把這個成效指標從沒有在受理改成被害人安全的追蹤理有沒有去確認比如說 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10050.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10060.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
至少確認一下你報案之後我們也核發了告誡書那你的情況是不是OK |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10061.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10077.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
這一塊有沒有可能做你說對回復的訪視就對了被害人的安全我們再去做追蹤這個可能就是我們來研究看看研究一下給我們書面報告兩個月內提供一下我們請 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10085.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10090.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
署長回座,我們請部長還有衛福部的代表,今天是副司長,張副司長 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10096.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10125.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
署長可以回座部長還有我們的副司長我們看到衛福部的報告說有委員提案要把認知的教育心理輔導相對人的儲育計畫納入耕燒防治但是衛福部認為這些儲育項目對改善耕燒行為的效果要累積更多的實證基礎這一塊你們的意思是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10127.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10142.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
是不是請我們興建室來做說明好啊也可以我看興建室好專委 洪專委感謝委員的垂詢那因為這一塊我們就是因為過去在訂這個法的時候其實我們根據日本的研究大概是有2%是屬於這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10144.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10170.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
精神疾病的這個病態的那當然它有治療的效果但是對於就是非病態的其實要用醫療的角度去介入我們其實是比較保留希望可以有更多的實證去檢視好對當你需要更多實證的時候你沒有積極的去收集或是你積極主動的你去得到這些案例啊不是被動的等待啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10172.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10183.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
所以我們想問說行為人如果被告誡後仍然反覆的騷擾衛福部現在有沒有標準化的相對人的處遇課程有沒有這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10185.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10205.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
各位報告因為目前的這個法令上面就是可以處精神治療或者是戒癮治療所以如果不是精神治療或者是戒癮治療目前其實我們在實務上我們是沒有相關案例但是所以你們避免一個標準化對於加害人他應該怎麼處癒你們沒有去做 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10206.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10229.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
做這個追蹤跟判定我們之前也有詢問台灣司法精神醫學會在實證上面目前是沒有相關的充分資料但是我們也建議就是主管機關可以針對我們過去已經發生的這些案例太陽的類型其實做一些研究以上那剛好啦我們對於這個被害人 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10231.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10254.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
一個是加害人我們這邊當然希望就是說你不是只有你說沒有但是你應該積極去收集更多去了解而不是目前沒有這第一個那這是針對相對人那但是對被害人我們這邊也要提就是說針對被害人我們的心理輔導與支持現在我們這一塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10258.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10284.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
做的情況對目前就是有關跟蹤騷擾的被害人如果經由警政署轉介到我們各縣市政府我們各縣政府的社政單位是會提供被害人的相關服務包括心理支持服務所以這個以各縣市政府來說的話他們有提出的然後都會進行就對會會我們有相關的服務可以提供所以這個的判定是由各縣市政府對的 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10287.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10299.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
社政單位所以這個心理輔導跟支持等於讓這個受害人他需要受到輔導的時候我們政府可以有支持的這個部分是可以的謝謝許新英委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10307.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10334.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
好,接下來我們請張雅玲委員,張雅玲委員,張雅玲委員不在林倩琦委員,林倩琦委員,林倩琦委員不在蘇巧惠委員,蘇巧惠委員,蘇巧惠委員不在葉元之委員,葉元之委員,葉元之委員不在鄭天才委員,鄭天才委員,鄭天才委員不在王振旭委員,王振旭委員,王振旭委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10337.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10337.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
唉 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10340.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10366.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
登記諮詢的委員除不在場者外其餘經緯諮詢完畢 詢答結束委員蘇巧慧 高金素美 許宗信 陳金輝 張雅蓮 王振旭徐欣盈 廖偉祥 林淑芬所提書面諮詢列入記錄刊登公報書面諮詢和未及答覆部分請相關單位於一週內以書面答覆並複製本會 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10368.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10387.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
討論事項所列議案均另定期繼續審查也跟委員會報告內政委員會的預算全部已經送出送到財政委員會今天送出本次會議到此結束,現在上會,謝謝 |