| IVOD_ID |
17562 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17562 |
| 日期 |
2026-07-01 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-35-24 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第24次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
24 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第24次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2026-07-01T08:38:41+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-07-01T12:44:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
04:05:19 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/7a505bc1fba11f2de0f2bee81d4a52a77dd55a9dcdba35bd7149c28021a325204a6d3bfacfdb382e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-07-01T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第24次全體委員會議（變更議程）（事由：邀請國防部、外交部、海洋委員會海巡署、大陸委員會報告「中國船舶常態化巡弋我國海域之因應作為」，並備質詢。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:38:41 - 12:44:00 |
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SPEAKER_16 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1249.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
1250.098 |
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待會問 待會問 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1268.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1272.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
報告委員會出席委員12人以主法定人數 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1300.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1326.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第十一屆第五會期外交及國防委員會第二十三次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國一百一十五年六月二十四日星期三上午九十三分至十一時三十八分六月二十五日星期四上午九十至十一時九分地點紅樓三零一會議室出席委員王逸川等十二人請教委員黃仁陳冠廷列席人員鍾嘉斌等五人 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1327.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1349.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
列席人員6月24日國防部部長顧立雄及所屬人員6月25日僑務委員會委員長許家青及所屬人員行政院主計總處專門委員李培元6月24日星期三報告事項一宣讀上次會議意思錄決定確定二有請國防部部長顧立雄報告教昭制度公平性後備軍人實戰化 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1350.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1369.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
私訊成效與女性教召配套措施並被質詢國防部部長顧立雄 全民防衛動員署署長廖建新 報告委員王一川等10人質詢軍友國防部部長顧立雄 全民防衛動員署署長廖建新情報參謀次長是次長謝日昇空軍司令部參謀長李慶然及後備指揮部參謀長薛淵全等 提起答覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1376.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1398.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
決定一登記諮詢在場委員均已發言完畢報告及詢答結束二委員黃仁、林楚英、黃建斌、徐巧欣、陳冠廷、鍾嘉斌所提書面諮詢列入記錄刊登公報三委員所提書面及口頭諮詢未及答覆或要求提供資資訊請國防部與二周內已書面答覆本會全體委員並赴資本會委員令指定期限者從期鎖定 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1398.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1417.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
6月25日星期四討論事項依據去審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於僑務委員會主管收支公開及機密部分決議依公開部分審查結果稅務部分第二款罰款及賠償收入第210項僑務委員會無劣數第三款歸費收入第174項僑務委員會24000元照列第四款財產收入第222項僑務委員會8583000元照列第七款其他收入 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1427.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1443.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
第220項僑務委員會六十二萬五千元照列稅出部分第22款僑務委員會主管不含機密部分第一項僑務委員會原列二十五億八千六百九十六萬六千元簡列依第一目一般行政向下基本行政工作維持中設備及投資之運輸設備費二十萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1445.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1458.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
二 第二幕 綜合規劃業務向下研究發展及專案業務中業務費資運用人員籌金二十萬元三 第三幕 僑民僑團聯繫接待及僑教中心服務兩百零二萬元含加強僑社聯繫及輔助舉辦多元活動兩百萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1461.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1479.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
及舉辦僑社工作研討會及邀訪與培訓活動落實僑務工作中之獎補助費之對國內團體之捐助兩萬元第五目僑商經濟業務向下海外華人經濟資訊會收並促進海內外商機交流中業務費有關結合台灣辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1480.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1491.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
近零趟排專業與經驗及產業發展優勢,推介海外橋台商企業參考運用及配合國際ESG與永續發展趨勢,協助橋台商育為因應佈局,並提升未來國際競爭力,永續企業營運及發展10萬元。5.第7幕橋路新聞資訊及傳媒服務,250萬元含 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1503.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1513.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
海外華語文、學習深耕計畫業務費150萬元以上共計減煉502萬元科目均自行調整區域均造列改列為25億8194萬6千元本項通過決議44項 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1519.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1546.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
2.機密部分 審查結果密略3.115年度中央政府總預算案關於僑務委員會主管收支公開及機密部分審查完略 審查結果送財政委員會會呈後提報院會不須交由黨團協商院會討論時由馬州級委員文君出席說明是本次預算審查如有預算科目金額或文字物質授權議事人員調整繼續審查115年度中央政府總預算案 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1547.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1573.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
附屬單位預算關於僑務委員會主管信託基金依莊首根公益基金二受理捐贈僑生獎助學金及監控地區僑民學校私資輔助基金決議依僑務委員會主管信託基金審查結果依莊首根公益基金依基金應用依據收支與處撥補等項之審查結果隨同調整二總收入七萬七千元造列三總支出八萬元造列 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1574.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
1592.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
是本期短處三千元造列二受理捐贈僑生、講助學金及監控地區僑民學生失職輔助基金依基金運用計畫因依據收支餘處撥補等項之審查結果隨同調整二總收入八百零六萬兩千元造列三總支出八百零三萬兩千元造列 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
1593.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
1620.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
是本期剩餘三萬元 照列三一百一十五年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於僑務委員會主管信託基金、裝售跟公益基金及受理捐贈僑生獎助學金及監控地區僑民學校私資輔助基金均審查完均審查結果送財政委員會會長後提報院會不須交由黨團協商院會討論時由馬召集委員文均出席說明宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
1622.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
1640.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
請問在場委員對上次會議事錄有無遺漏或錯誤需要更正之處?請議事人員宣讀,議事錄確定,請議事人員宣讀報告事項報告事項,邀請國防部、外交部、海洋委員會、海巡署、大陸委員會報告中國船舶常態化巡弋我國海域之因應作為並被質詢,宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
1643.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
1671.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
現在介紹在場的委員以及與會的官員首先是陳永康委員陳俊穎委員那接下來是顧立雄部長那副總長執行官黃志偉上將常務次長陳文興中將全民防衛動員署署長廖建興中將總督察市總督察長盧建忠中將參事石文榮中將政務辦公室主任孫立芳中將政治作戰局副局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
1672.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
1679.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
胡瑞迅少將軍備局局長林文祥中將處紀局局長謝其賢中將軍醫局局長陳元浩中將戰略規劃師師長黃文綺中將資源規劃師師長郎敬廷女士法律師傅師師長吳義聖中將整合評估師傅師長齊良先生 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
1688.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
1706.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
國防部採購事主任趙雅萍中將、能事參謀次次長、次次長黃志輝中將、情報次次次長、次次次長蔡日昇中將、中等級計劃參謀次次長、次次次長侯佳倫中將、後勤參謀次次次長李鳳翔中將、通信電子資訊事參謀次次次長謝俊山中將、訓練參謀次次長郭俊德中將、陸軍司令部參謀長陳建義中將、海軍司令部參謀長 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
1715.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
1723.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
朱惠民中將 紅軍司令部參謀長 李慶南中將後備指揮部參謀長 薛育權少將憲兵指揮部參謀長 張存志少將陸軍後勤指揮部參謀長 梁永坤少將資通電軍指揮部參謀長 周文祥少將軍事情報局副局長 李友康少將 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
1744.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
1766.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
電視區發展室執行長林政委上校國防大學教育長林承忠少將國家中山科學院研究院院長林士強先生外交部有次長陳明吉次長亞東太平洋師副師長林鴻勛副師長西亞籍非洲師副師長陳永博副師長歐洲師師長黃軍耀 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
1773.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
1802.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
北美獅獅長王良玉獅長拉丁美洲籍加勒比海獅獅長韓志正獅長條約法律師獅長李憲章獅長研究設計會副主任林世新副主任公眾外交協調會副執行長陳怡君副執行長台北關係協會副秘書長林玉慧副秘書長海巡署副署長謝慶卿副署長巡防組組長洪博森 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
1804.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
1831.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
組長 情報組參議 黃勇章參議大陸委員會部主任委員 沈永松副組委 綜合國家署專門委員 何勝飛專委法政處副組長 董玉雲副組長本日會議邀請國防部 外交部 海委會 海巡署 大陸委員會報告中國船舶常態化巡弋我國海域之因應作為 並被執行先請國防部 顧部長上來報告 接著請外交部 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
1844.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
1868.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
主席各位委員先進,今天非常榮幸應邀到大院委員會進行專案報告,稱謀各位委員對於中國傳播常態化詢議我國海域之因應作為的關切與指導,再次表達誠摯的謝意面對中共不但擴張軍事威脅及灰色地帶壓迫的嚴峻環境,國軍竟然在 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
1869.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
1895.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
有管制的因應作為下以海巡署配合妥適應處確保國家安全與區域穩定那接續呢由作戰級計畫船舶市長侯佳倫中將實施中國船舶常態化巡弋海域之因應作為專案報告敬請各位委員先進指導與支持謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
1905.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
1926.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
主席 各位委員先進 大家好 接續實施專案報告一 前言 日前中共因日本及菲律賓啟動專屬經濟區劃界談判擴大操弄媒體新戰文宣公式 以法律戰 認知作戰 有趣事實並藉機派遣海警及海軍船舶赴我東部海域執行海上交通專項執法行動 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
1928.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
1956.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
且近年運用海洋科學調查船與我周邊海域宣稱在管轄海域內實施環境調查以下針對中共船舶常態化活動太陽分析國軍應處作為分數如後二中共船舶常態化巡弋威脅分析近年來中共對台海周邊海域進行常態化侵擾艦船活動數量大幅增加活動區域已呈現顯著的擴張的趨勢 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
1959.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
1979.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
泰漾分析如此一共建常态化战备警巡自110年8月起共建常态与我周边海域从事战备警巡活动数量从每日3至4周逐渐增加至每日6至7周并配合其所谓联合战备警巡时机更直接进抵我24里临街区 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
1981.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
1993.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
2.去年12月底對台針對性經驗期間,共艦進入我24野林街區,逼近12嶺海,企圖以脅迫、挑釁手段,加大對我軍事威懾力度。 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
1995.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2024.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
中共海巡船專項巡查擴權活動一 中共海巡船律屬中共交通運輸部海事局主司交通安全及搜救保障近年來多於交通專項執法行動海上搜救員練為名屢次於台灣海峽從事其所宣稱之執法巡查行動二 今年6月6日至10日中共借日飛經濟海域談判事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2025.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2040.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
派遣海巡船編隊赴我東部海域同時單方面擴大濫用海域管轄權以執法名義包裝侵擾行為使者運用灰色地帶洗澡手段對我施壓形塑長臂管轄假象 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2041.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2067.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
三 中共海警船灰色地帶洗澡行動一 中共海警船隸屬中共武警部隊組織海上維權與治安執法自113年2月起假借維權巡邏名義進入我金門、馬祖等限制水域洗澡並陸續擴展巡邏區域至海峽中線、東沙及我西南海域此以成為灰色地帶洗澡的新常態 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2068.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2096.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
二 六月初中共更藉日非經濟海域談判事件後將海警船部署至我國東部海域外意圖形塑台海內海化四 科研海調船水文調查行動中共國家海洋局 科學院及相關院校所屬各類科研船以海洋科學研究為名航行於我周邊海域乃至跨越第一島鏈外長期進行水文蒐集及戰場經營等任務 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2098.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2127.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
中上 近年中共各式船舶與台海周邊常態化巡弋由早期軍事威嚇轉變為執法包裝軍警協同 海域蠶食模式應用共艦 海警 科研及執法船舶對我進行灰色地帶洗腦企圖以台海內海化 捍衛中國主權的假象混淆國際視聽然而事實上中國才是改變台海現狀及印太區域和平穩定的迫害者 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2129.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2136.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
3.國軍運儲作為,依國防安全政策指導,國軍秉持料敵從官、預敵從嚴的原則,結合聯合作戰及跨機關協調機制,並因中共公務船舶活動樣態及威脅程度,持續強化各項運儲作為,說明如此。 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2149.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2168.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
一、嚴密掌控海空動態一、應用聯合勤監政系統,整合海空兵力、安置雷達、電子徵收、衛星資訊及無人載具等監偵能量掌握我周邊海域的中共船舶活動動態,並建立完整預警及應變機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2170.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2186.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
二持續一既有國軍及海巡協調機制透過情報共享聯合監監控及時通報及指揮協調確保敵情早期發現及時研判迅速應處二國軍海巡聯合應處花屋一 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2187.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2202.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
涉及海上執法事項由海巡署依法執行查證監控及驅離國軍維持海空兵力警戒密切掌握中共傳播動態適切調整兵力部署防範藉機升高軍事威脅二 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2203.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2218.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
針對中共船舶洗腦類型本部已立定各項應處作為使各單位依照敵情發展威脅程度採取適切兵力部署並同步整合海巡署艦船共同應對洗腦三 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2218.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2235.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
如中共船舶結合其海空兵力遂行聯合行動國軍將依聯合作戰計畫及聯戰指揮機制迅速完成兵力部署提升戰備等級及指揮管制確保應變快速有效三建立常態化演訓一 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2237.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2247.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
將中共船舶常態化巡弋行動納入灰色地帶應署想定結合立即備案操演、聯合防禦操演、漢光演習、精實訓練、海岸操演等戰備任務時機實施狀況演練 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2251.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2269.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
演練著重快速反應及指揮協調機制運作除驗證國軍及海巡海域應變海上交通線防護及聯合作戰能力展現海上應變效能及嚇阻效果以提升整體應處效能四 即時戰略溝通 凝聚向心 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2270.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2295.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
運用威脅映處及備戰實況影像透過新聞媒體及國內外社群平台適時揭露共軍擾台威脅太陽及國軍映處作為爭取國內民眾支持與國際輿論重視彰顯我國捍衛主權的決心四、結語面對中共傳播常態化巡弋及灰色地帶襲擾國軍將秉持備戰不求戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2299.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2319.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
應戰不必戰原則密切掌握周邊海控動態運用聯合情監偵及跨機關協調機制並結合戰略溝通展現維護國家主權安全及區域和平穩定的決心與能力以上包敬請各位委員先進支持與指導謝謝接著請外交部陳次長上台報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2326.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2351.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
主席 各位委員 大家好那麼承蒙貴委員會邀請外交部就中國傳播常態化詢議我海域之因應作為進行專案報告並且被質詢以下提出本部的說明 敬請主席跟各位委員不吝指教前言本次委員會關切重點主要是中國在 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2352.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2381.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
日本跟菲律賓在今年5月28日舉行兩國領袖峰會發布聯合聲明提及雙方決定在遵守相關國際法前提下將啟動兩國專屬經濟海域及大陸礁層海洋化解談判後借題發揮以反制為名擴大侵擾我國東部海域相關情形為積極反制中方作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2382.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2401.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
本部已經四次發布新聞稿闡述我國立場,與陸委會及海巡署同聲譴責中國非法片面改變現狀的行徑,呼籲國際社會關注。以下就本部的應處作為以及國際社會的聲援情況向委員報告。 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2404.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2421.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
2.中國全面營造所謂對台管轄權的假象中國稱相關作為是為了要因應日非化解談判的必要行動實際上卻是首度公開宣稱台灣東部屬於其可持續行使管轄權的禁案水域 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2422.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2438.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
除了在我國東部海域非法騷擾外籍商船,甚至進一步非法侵擾我離外島的境縣制水域,中國是以日非化解案作為外衣包裝其擴全的野心。 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2441.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2454.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
在外交部運輸作為方面,我們分為下面幾項第一,我們針對中國籍日非重疊經濟海域化解案強化對我東部海域進行非法執法的事態 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2456.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2473.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
外交部已經向日非兩國表明我國立場,包括我國作為相關海域當事方,那麼兩國應充分顧及我的權益,並且獲日本內閣官房長官穆元仁公開確認華界無色第三方。 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2474.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2502.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
本部立場非常清楚那麼未來相關話界談判與結果均不對我國構成法律約束力不影響我國依國際法所享有的各項權利也不影響我國跟日非個別已經簽署的漁業協定以及執法合作的協定此外我們已經預請日非正視中國借本案分化第一島鏈團結的情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2504.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2531.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
第二,針對中國海警船舶在我國東部海域從事非法活動的駁震以及抗議本部跟陸委會以及海巡署通一合作發布新聞稿重申我國主權不容挑釁中國無權以任何的理由對我國的海域主張所謂的管制法權更無權以日非談判為藉口擴張它的管轄主張 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2533.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2550.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
中國的相關的作為已經違反國際法嚴重威脅區域安全跟國際秩序第三本部積極爭取國際聲援以正視聽為了使區域重要理念相近國家積極關注本案情勢發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2551.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2562.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
本部已經責請駐美、澳、韓、新加坡耿處欲請駐在國政府關切中方片面破壞區域和平穩定現狀的行徑 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2564.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2583.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
四,我們也看到了理念相近的國家聲援我國的具體作為。第一個,美國。美國在台協會6月24日發表聲明表示,中國相關作為嚴重破壞區域穩定,與中方宣稱要追求和平解決爭議的途徑相違背。 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2586.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2607.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
美方拒絕中國任何干涉航行與飛越自由、鋪設海底電纜自由以及其他合法海洋權利的主張敦促中方停止以軍事、外交及經濟等手段施壓台灣要與台灣的民選政府進行有意義的對話 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2608.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2635.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
第二,歐洲三國也發表了聯合聲明英國在台辦事處、法國在台協會以及德國在台協會於6月24日發表聯合聲明對中國在我國東部海域的新活動表達關切指出這些行動威脅區域穩定、航行自由以及國際航空安全重申反對任何片面改變現狀的一個行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
2636.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
2655.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
最後結尾,外交部將持續與各部會通力合作,捍衛我國主權,並依國際法所享有的各項權利,並持續欲請國際社會警惕中國破壞區域和平穩定,以及發動認知作戰的作為。 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
2660.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
2685.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
好 謝謝其他部會機關報告請參閱書面資料接下來我們開始詢答本會委員4加2分鐘非本會委員4分鐘10點半截止發言登記如果有提示提案請在10點半前提出11點左右來處理那以後如果各位報告的時候還是希望說不見得要全面的照稿念如果有什麼特別需要委員或者是民眾知道的可以來去加強那接下來請陳俊委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
2701.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
2718.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
好 謝謝召委 我們有請國安部的顧部長跟我們陸委會的省副主委我們請部長跟副主委 謝謝部長副主委早是 陳委員早 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
2719.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
2743.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
在那個川習會後,我們看到中共的各類船艦又開始頻繁的對我們台灣周邊海域來進行相關的活動那也在我們沿海部署超過上百艘的船艦在第一島鏈那6月初更派出海巡、海警船,聲稱在我們東部海域來進行所謂的海上交通專項執法行動 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
2746.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
2760.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
那同一時間中共的遼寧艦相關的編隊也在西太平洋參與遠海的訓練在海上待超過一個月,直到端午節前才返航 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
2763.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
2790.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
其中我想針對這個6月6號我們所啟動的這項海上交通專項的執法行動來進一步討論我們注意到這一次的這個由中國海事局所發布主導的這個行動不同於過去這個中共常以海軍或是海警進行這個施壓並且這個海事局跟海警局在組織的本質上武裝的這個配置也有所差異 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
2791.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
2816.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
那他這個海事局也等同我們的這個航港局也蠻奇怪的那對於這個海事局隸屬的交通運輸部還有海警局則是隸屬於中央軍委所指導的這個武警部隊在行動上他們混合使用了準軍事和非武裝的這個力量首先我想請教這個陸委會 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
2818.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
2842.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
在中共這一次的這個海事局所派出的四艘公務船並且首次以海上交通執法的名義到我東部這個海域來進行所謂的執法行為那這樣的這個政治或是戰略上的意涵有何轉變並且在這個中方的說法他們在6月6號到6月10號之間對於往返的這個外國船隻進行了198次的檢查並聲稱擁有這個管轄權 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
2847.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
2866.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
那類似的實施隔離的這種做法,未來是否會有可能再升級,或是這樣的這種公務船編組的侵擾我們東部海域的模式,是否會成為他們新型態的這種騷擾的方式,我們陸委會怎麼看待? |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
2866.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
2894.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
是非常謝謝委員的指教那首先剛剛委員提到確實這次六月份中共實施所謂的海上交通專項執法行動那不同於以往用這個所謂的這個共艦或者是海警船而是用所謂的公務船的這個形式那陸委會這邊的判斷大概是認為說過去一段時間那麼中共用軍機軍艦在第一島鏈這邊來進行軍事上的施壓已經受到不只第一島鏈國家甚至是全球民主國家共同的撻伐 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
2894.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
2907.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
所以大概這次有意特別降低改用公務的這個形式所以是用公務船似乎是想要包裝降低用這種軍事施壓的這個方式而是用公務然後來落實他所謂他自己單方面所謂的管轄權的這樣子的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
2909.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
2936.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
另外我們有觀察到一個特點也跟委員一併說明這次我們看到他的這個出來的這個船隻分別是在福建的還有廣東的還有東海航海保障中心和救助局所以這三個海事局的這個部分福建海事局負責的部分就是台海那廣東海事局負責的對象就是菲律賓那我們看到東海航海保障中心還有救助局其實他負責的對象就是日本劍指的對象 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
2937.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
2953.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
所以他這次特別由這三個單位這三個省份福建、廣東、東海其實就是表明了要針對日本跟菲律賓還有台灣這三個國家來進行在公務上面的一種進一步的這種施壓的這個情況這個部分我們可以跟委員來進一步的這個說明那另外您剛剛提到進行198次所謂的點驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
2956.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
2980.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
那陸友會這邊注意到的是說他比較多的這個方式是用廣播的方式然後來宣稱說這個是中國的水域那其他船隻要進來的時候都要去服從中國的這個法律的相關規定那有沒有可能進一步的升級確實有那我們現在密切的關注有沒有可能會升級成變成是登船臨檢因為現在大概就是說保持距離然後在旁邊做監測那適時的時候用廣播的方式來進行騷擾 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
2981.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
2998.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
那未來如果有登船臨檢的話他的這個騷擾的作為就會變得更加的具體那威脅也會變得更加的巨大以上跟委員說明好那謝謝副主委副主委您先請回那另外我想請教我們國防部在這一次的這個海上交通專項的這個執法行動的副主委先請回 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3000.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3027.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
這個期間除了有分屬不同的海事局派出的公務船隻同時也有海警編隊的相關船隻在我們東南海域並且在我們簡報上我們可以看到電腦螢幕上我們可以看到這是由專家所整理出的一個軌跡圖示在東南外海的一個折角他們的航行軌跡依我們國防部及國安單位透過 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3028.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3056.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
各式情間爭的相關手段的掌握我想請問部長中共在海警跟海巡在我們東南海域航行的時候是否有進行相關的聯合演訓的編隊那為什麼因為它一個逆向的行駛然後到我們東南側那邊有一個折角的部分那相關的這些船艦是不是在那邊有相關的演訓並且跟它在菲律賓的遼寧艦有沒有什麼樣一個聯合的 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3060.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3068.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
這個編隊,我想我們國防部是不是有掌握相關的情勢?各位好,我是情報次長徐宇森跟委員報告,我們所掌握到從 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3070.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3095.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
他們的編隊一進到我們的海域裡面我們就開始在嚴密的監控那您剛剛所說明的那些也是我們觀察的相同的情況我們並沒有具體的看到這一次的活動跟海軍之間有很明顯的這個聯繫但是我們仍然在注意他們彼此之間之間有沒有其他的動作但這個部分是我們列入一個長期觀察的重點以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3097.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3110.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
應該我補充一下就是說有關相應的這些有請您提到那個遼寧化編隊在西太平洋這個部分我想我們都有掌握但是我們可能要考量到那個禽獸的手段跟那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3111.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3130.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
情緒來源,我們可能這個部分不以對外多做說明那至於海警跟海巡,他試圖要在這個東部來形成一個常態性執法的這樣子的一個作為,我想我們透過相關的這些顯然是進行一個要形成一個長臂管轄的一個假象,那我們對這個我們要 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3134.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3158.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
應對那同時我們要破除我們要跟國際要發聲那同時我們一定要透過相關的這些反認知作戰的這個作為我們不斷的去說明這一個絕對不是他所能夠管轄的區域那我們的應處的相關的應處作為就會跟海巡一起協同那根據各種不同的狀況我有律定相關的應變作為這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3160.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3185.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
好謝謝部長那我們也請國防部跟相關單位對於我們國家的安全能夠持續就這個情勢方面能夠掌握並且滾動的檢討那也強化我們各部會之間相關跨國的協調跟應變的應處的相關應變能力那來確保我們國家領土主權不受這個侵擾的這個最基本的要件謝謝部長好謝謝謝謝陳俊宇委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3192.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3195.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
接下來我們請羅美瑩委員上台質詢謝謝主席 有請國防部顧部長是 羅美瑩 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3214.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3237.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
嗯部長早部長中共除了不斷的用這個軍機繞台之外我們確實看到近年來他們真的就是假借執法之名用各式的傳播呢在台海附近的進行這個灰色地帶的這個侵擾嚴重的影響到我們台海的安全那再來當然我們面對中國的這個軍事威脅我們是不得不儘早做這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3238.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3249.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
準備尤其是提升軍備的這個部分那之前呢我們也討論了很多所謂打造不對稱戰力更是刻不容緩那尤其是無人載具呢在這個無二戰爭當中我們可以發現說他是從過去這個傳統戰場上的這個輔助裝備呢要升為這個建構不對稱戰力的這個核心戰力 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3260.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3285.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
那尤其是這個烏克蘭在2022年我們也看到它戰爭爆發之初其實他們是沒有無人機產業可是到現在也是全球最大的戰場無人機生產國之一那我們也看到因為烏克蘭的這個經驗所以各國也紛紛投入無人機產業希望掌握這個國防科技發展的這個契機所以這也是為什麼行政院之前國防特別條例裡面會納入這個無人載 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3287.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3299.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
這個系統 可是很可惜的就是說那次呢被這個無人載具的部分全數被這個在野黨給刪除那本席之前曾經就有提過我們不能夠因為在野黨的這個惡意的刪除而我們就放棄所以對我們很樂見最近國防部 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3305.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3329.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
我們行政院這邊提出了國防自主無人採取採購特別條例那尤其是針對保衛國土跟海疆我們規劃就是規劃了這個濱海攻擊型跟濱海艦艇型無人艇還有小型自殺無人艇等等總共21架經費目前大概是2100億左右嘛那當然本席有看到行政院自從 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3331.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3357.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
這個進入 今天把這版本呢進入到這個立法院之後呢已經兩次在這個城市委員會被封殺那甚至在上個禮拜五的這個院會呢也被這個在野黨所擋下那當然在野黨有提說他們也要準備來提出他們自己的這個版本喔那我們所了解的就是說國民黨的版本呢他們是要把它納入到這個年度預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3358.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3382.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
所以這個部分的話,如果真的是納入年度預算的話我想請問國防部,這這樣子對於我們的這個年度預算會有什麼樣的影響嗎?有可能做得到嗎?那個跟委員報告齁我是看到他的第15條第15條就是講說他要求,立法機關要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3383.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3398.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
張政府要編這個年度的預算是你選年度預算程序來每年編列400億元那連續編列6年那總而為新台幣2400萬元那他在立法的理由說明裡面有提到他說 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3400.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3429.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
這個是作為推動無人載機產業發展及光建設穩定裁員總額為新台幣2400億元因為他有提到是說他是作為一個穩定的裁員其實大家都很清楚要作為一個穩定的裁員一定是要多年期的一個計劃也就是我們一直講的我們要支援集中規模穩定然後我們尋求大量長單跟迭代創新的原則我們來去做 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3430.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3451.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
那但是他說這個可以做一個穩定的產業,但是他又把他提到這個年度的預算裡面去那當然我們先講,先不去討論產生排擠的問題但是至少他放到年度預算裡面,我們可以看得出來在今年的年度預算事實上到現在還沒審完 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3451.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3475.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
是,已經過了大半年了那我們在外交國安委我們可以看得到我們提出來的一些相關的無人機的預算好像我的了解好像也不是只有本部的預算,好像其他的預算或者被保留或者被刪減等等所以我不太清楚就是說他這個答案是說他如果我們真的變了400億那他是不是就一口承諾他絕不刪減 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3477.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3489.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
不然的話,他立法在這裡的意義,我就不太清楚,這是第一點第二點,我們提出的相關預算,包括我們現在提出2100億的這個監偵型的也好,兵海攻擊型的 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3490.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3514.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
冰海健身型的或者攻擊型的或者是無人艇的部分都是根據我們的作戰需求所提出來那事實上我們也不只這些因為我們這些是屬於比較國防自主建造那我們其他還有相關的這些要包括垂直起降型的無人機啊我們六驗二型的無人機啊等等還有其他的一些相關可能未來會有的一些無人載具等等那 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3516.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3532.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
應該要編列多少的預算才合乎我們國防所需要的戰備的一個能力這是由國防部應該要來審慎的思考然後我們要根據我們的作戰需求也就是我們要先有一個作戰需求的文件 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3532.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3557.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
然後我們再根據相關的這些,不管是系統分析啊,不管是啟程工項,或者是獲得整體規劃書等等這些建案文件,我們把它齊全之後,我們才會提出這個案然後到立法院來,供立法委員審議那現在立法院國民黨辦人提一個,那他並沒有考慮到我們的作戰需求沒有考慮到我們這些相關的建案文件 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3558.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3587.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
他就直接說四百億那我也不曉得四百億這個金額他是如何去計算出來的合乎合乎我們的作戰的需求也許我們會高於這個也就是說不只是只是我們現在提的特別條例的這幾款無人機還有無人艇我們還有其他的無人載具而且這無人載具的發展也是日期業餘那他現在把它框住一個金額那這個金額是不是足夠應對我們所需要的作戰能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3587.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3600.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
這個也不清楚所以我覺得這樣子的一個作為他們反而是落入到一個相當不確定的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3602.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3621.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
是 部長講得非常的清楚在野黨屢屢反客為主那常常就是會提出一些不清楚定義的一些版本從上次的國防特別條例就已經有看得出來了那這次呢他們又重新操作這種模式所以當然他們除了在選區委員會黨 在院會黨那甚至提出了版本呢讓人家摸不著頭緒但這是我們說實在的之前就認為他們可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3630.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
3657.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
可能會這麼做那當然我覺得說他們要這麼做最大的原因其實就是拖嘛就是拖嘛利用這些方式拖嘛像我們他說他們要把這些應該屬於要用特別預算特別條例來支應的這些這些經費他們現在要納入這個年度預算那我們可以看得出來年度預算去年度到今年已經過了大半年了都還沒有三讀通過那以後他們又用這種方式來操作的話更於就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
3660.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
3674.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
我們無人機產業可能就是會卡在這些在野黨的手上他會變成一個我們必須要講他現在立法要求我們每年編列400億元的無人載具的預算會形成立法委員立法規範行政 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
3676.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
3703.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
團隊編列預算然後再由立法委員審查這是很奇怪的一個模式因為很明顯是違反行政立法分立的原則因為預算權的提出都是根據我們的作戰我們國防部立場我們都是根據我們的作戰需要來提出我們相關的這些預算那立法委員去業主代表說你要提出多少預算然後提出預算再送到立法院來進行審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
3704.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
3726.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
所以我剛剛才會有第一個疑惑說,那真的按照他這樣的要求提出這個預算,立法委員是不是按照他當時的立法的承諾他就不應該,是不應該刪減嗎?還是他還要進行審查?那如果還要進行審查,那這樣的立法委員自己提出版本自己審查? |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
3726.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
3744.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
自己版本,然後我不知道他如何進行審查,那如果他進行審查的時候,他再把他砍掉,那將來這個立法的意義在哪裡?說真的不是很,我不是很理解,我有相當的困惑啦,也許國民黨可以說明一下他們後續 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
3746.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
3767.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
對這樣的一個模式,要如何來構成一個財源穩定當然更重要就是說,我想所有預算需求都應該是有預算需求單位特別是我們國防的一個戰略需求,這是我們最基本的考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
3768.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
3791.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
OK 好 那當然對於這個在野黨的這個版本的矛盾還有這個執行上的困難我在想國防部這邊還是要對外界多加的這個說明那到底還有那再來會不會對於社福教育的預算有所謂的這個排擠我想這個都要跟外界說明好 以上謝謝好 謝謝謝謝羅委員 接下來我們請陳永康委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
3810.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
3816.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
主席有請國防部顧部長還有外交部陳次長請次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
3826.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
3845.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
部長早 次長早是陳委員早部長剛才上一個委員質詢對在野黨的意見我們聽懂了我私下到時候再給你們做解釋因為我們很快禮拜五就會討論這個議題所以在這邊不是政黨的辯論我們也支持那裡面有很多的不同的條件論 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
3846.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
3871.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
我們不應該去為國防部決定打什麼仗這是國防部規劃但是有關預算編呢我想在核定裡面我們內部應該會支持那並不會說框一個然後我再來整理冤枉把它砍掉所以剛才那個你稍微可以心情放鬆一點那個我們再做溝通那這樣的話那個立法院到時候我們提出政府總預算到大院來審查的時候就這一部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
3872.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
3889.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
委員就不用審查了是審查會溝通但是不是說拿這個來當作卡脖子的一個手段那這樣立法的本質的意義我有點不甚理解在這邊我們不在這個地方做細節討論了我特別講在今年的這個7月12號 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
3891.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
3907.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
就是南海仲裁庭十周年当年一公布出来的时候我们的蔡英文总统就完全反对支持就不支持他的论述这个是菲律宾去提出来的他的起因是从黄岩岛的因素去抬那么接着在公元2000年的时候 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
3915.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
3923.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
我們的外交部又重新提出了一個對於這個南海仲裁庭的這個結論我們是不接受的因為是 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
3924.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
3945.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
马上到这个月的十二号就是十周年了我想有些立场啊可能要外交部的同仁呢做个说明那我们现在先进行到这个因为今天主要谈的是中共灰色地带啊那么在国际现实中间呢各位看到很多的这个他的方法目的手段呢具体的行动如何用这个 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
3946.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
3971.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
海上民兵、海警船、科研船交货然后文攻武吓、经贸胁迫、反对外地介入这是他的目的方法手段这个过程中间我想我们不管是国防部、陆委会、海委会、外交部我们跨部会有一个很好的协商机制但是各位看这张图这个图这是我们内政部公布的我们的领海法 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
3972.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
3998.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
基线12里24里乃至于EEZ是由内政部公布但是今天现在谈的都是禁限制水域这是根据陆委会两岸人民关系条例定定外岛离岛的禁限制水域所以它的框架范围是一样但是解释的条款是不一样各位看这个中间台湾包括的这个图就是我们的EEZ |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4003.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4031.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
科研船向阳红22号走的行径走路线走过来我们用校准过的图片套叠这一次向阳红号的是在日本的EEZ所以理论上这一段我们不支持它的行动但是在法律上我们不去做批评指教但是在国际法上往往会有一个双标你看看到那个图的右下角那个圆框框那就是充值鸟交 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4033.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4046.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
但是你看看日本把它公布成EEZ了也就是說當我們的漁船在那邊的時候有被日本扣留罰款這個部分我希望我們的外交部在立場上就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4047.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4070.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
日本菲律賓談判的過程中間我們不介入他講說不影響第三方的權益這個權益不是影響不影響我覺得我們要向非日駐台的辦公室做個表達把我的圖畫出來因為如果單獨用這個表像這張圖你看不見我的EEZ所以你回過頭來 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4072.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4094.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
你看這個圖的EEZ就出來了那這是我的採選我的這個產權登記所以我要讓你日本菲律賓駐台的代表了解我至於你們兩個談的不涉及三章不涉及到第三方權益我沒意見但是我的權益啊我自己先要表述因為同樣的標準充值鳥交 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4096.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4118.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
日本把他划了200里 而且他还依法执行所以说我们的渔船过去还被扣留罚钱过所以这个我觉得外交部的立场要能够说明那这张图这个图我花了很多的功夫做过校正这个就是太平岛 因为这个南海仲裁庭把太平岛说它是 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4120.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4131.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
所以你有領海但是沒有EEZ可是因為我們跟旁邊的那些島礁距離很近所以我們太平島用的是近限制水域 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4132.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4161.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
那前一阵子有一个这个海巡呢有看到就中共的船进来但是他在三分钟内就从2000码冲到4000码所以说他是20节的速度冲他是打插边球非常危险的我们现在在外离岛啊海巡的同仁背负了很大的责任啊要执行这些任务当然他的讯号并不是岛上的雷达像在这个东沙岛啊他是 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4162.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4169.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
有领海基线12里24里以岛上的平面雷达看的话他是看不到是24里的所以他可能要用AIS |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4171.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4193.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
傳播追蹤系統 比對再派出船做有效的攔截這個圖裡面不只是太平島還有中洲礁 還有敦謙沙洲那都被越南佔領了所以我們要跟別人溝通的時候要拿一個圖涵蓋出比較大的範圍上面這個圖就是我們政府公布的圖每一個島礁離島都是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4197.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4204.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
雖然他講說用WGS84實際上這是示意圖他並不精準所以這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4205.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4231.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
这个我们国防部可能要请海军大海局配合把每一个公布的图的经纬度校正还有比例尺要量出来像这个图下面那个黄线5000公尺再去比照太平岛的长度如果你只是上上面这个白色的图你叫我们一般的国人或是其他部会的人做判断比较掌握不住那这个做个参考 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4233.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4256.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
我再提一下今天这个岛上还特别我标了两个今天早上是7点30分的就是在太平岛周遭还有在这个蹲迁还有这个蹲迁外面也有船像这些东西可以显示出来的他什么时候会转向这就是AIS关掉了但是他是个下毛的船不了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4258.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4283.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
这个是东沙群岛的环礁同样因为这个是有临海基线所以它有12里24里在这种情况下以岛上的雷达是无法24里外去看一个水面目标他一定要透过AIS船舶追踪系统比较到了不明的目标把AIS关掉的我们的船去临检这是早上这个7点10分的有三个在24里外的 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4284.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4299.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
所以有這些圖像啊經過校正比對以後我們政府各機關的判斷上會比較客觀那我們也希望在解釋的時候因為灰色地帶是一個名詞還有一個叫做灰都叫歸宗 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4300.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4315.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
可是在法律的界定裡面 那是灰色區塊就是說我們引述的條例跟案例 時間不同不管你是從國際法 海洋法 海洋法公爵甚至我們看在這個荷姆茲海峽裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4316.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4336.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
没有一方是遵守国际法因为他解释的定义通通挑一个对他有利的条款这个没有对错但是这个部分呢我觉得外交部调法师也好是外交学院以后在这地方我们提供一些参考的图资那在对国外沟通的时候你有一个利润的参考做一个依据 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4337.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4365.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
最後這個事我就不去敘述這只是一個建言不管我們政府也該採購的行政院該做的國防部要做的外交部陸委會國安單位海委會海巡署我們都有角色站在立法院我們是支持國家維護權益的論述但是有些部分就是因為沒有一個完整的圖像在解釋的時候有些是容易會偏差這個部分是不是請顧部長給予一些回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4366.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4377.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
可是那個我想有關於限制或禁止水域及限制區域有國安部公告,那剛剛委員所指教的那些公告的部分我們下去了解一下它那個詳細的經緯度的一個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4380.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4405.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
好 那外交部這邊你們就有點回應感謝委員這麼用心那麼我覺得這個是一個共識那麼就我們有法有據來維護我國的這個主權這是我們政府責無旁貸的一個責任我們會根據這個委員的這個指示相關的這個仔細的情資然後能夠跟我們的這個友盟理念相近的國家來做良好的溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4406.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4433.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
那麼同樣我們都有一個一樣的精神就是說對於中國不斷的這樣一個洗腦那麼侵犯我國的這個海洋的權利以及我們的這個主權那麼我們都非常的在乎那我們會採取一切必要的手段那麼跟立法院一起能夠維護我國的主權維護我國的這個海洋的權利我們在這事情上面全力的跟委員一起的來配合來進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4434.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4458.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
好 謝謝 維護國家權益啊 要大家共同努力 謝謝謝謝陳永康委員 接下來我們請王定寧委員好 謝謝主席 麻煩我們國防部長跟海巡署請部長跟海巡署 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4468.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4494.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
我看我們外交部也一併上來好了那你跟顧部長過去都在國安會嘛好我們現在看到很多數據跟現象其實大家都引述很多了比方說金門從2024年開始之後中國的海警每個月四次進入我們的限制水域那東沙水域也有侵擾我們台海周邊也有侵擾我相信三位應該都很了解中國在幹嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4494.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4512.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
中國企圖透過侵害他國的水域空域違反國際的規範來創立透過挑釁製造不安的方式然後大家容忍他要建立一個new norm他想要建立一個他自己的新秩序部長這個應該沒問題嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4514.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4538.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
那我們就要請教三位就是當中國持續性的用溫水煮青蛙的方式我常常出現一個月四次聯合戰備警巡一個月來個三到五次對澎湖周邊對於東沙對於相關的水域他要營造這一個新常態那我們的因應該什麼第一個要請教的就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4540.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4557.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
我們對於他在我們的東部外海他的海警的部署還有他要推動的台海內海化這對台灣以國防部來講這是影響我們的防禦非常嚴重的一件事情他把我們的壓縮住了對我們在國際的空間上來講讓國際 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4558.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4577.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
他想要讓國際看不見台灣看不見中華民國讓你被消失成為一個沒有主權的地方然後對於我們海巡的執法會面臨更高張力的衝突越來越多頻率越來越高所以第一個先請教法律戰的部分先請教我們外交部這裡有關中國這種濫用違反國際規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4583.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4608.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
進行長臂管轄或者是越境的 跨境的鎮壓灰色地帶的壓迫我們在國際上有沒有什麼樣進行國際法的訴求或者結合相關 欸 菲律賓也受害欸台灣不是唯一的受害者不是因為誰執政欸 是因為老共在那裡啊日本也面對同樣情形 甚至於澳洲有面對類似的情形我們國際法律戰打算怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4610.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4637.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
第一個我們就像這次委員也看到那麼這個相關的國家包括美國包括歐洲的這個三個主要的國家也發了聲明因罷得相關的這個事情我們會再繼續的努力那麼拿這個中國的這個侵擾行為尤其是說他這樣的一個侵擾行為第一個妨礙了我們的主權妨礙了我們的海洋權利第二個很重要的是妨礙了這個自由航行跟這個飛越的一個權利 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4638.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4657.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
所以以外交部來講我們可以詮釋英國、法國、德國駐台的代表聯合聲明除了譴責他的灰色地帶脅迫以外其實他做了一件事情承認中華民國台灣對這個水域的排他性的獨有的管轄權 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4659.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
4670.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
這個是那個三國那AIT後來隨後也有發類似這樣的聲明我要問的是你們接續下來有沒有更進一步的法律的作為國際法律的作為除了聲明以外 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
4671.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
4696.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
當然是說我們在國際處境上有些比較特殊的地方啦但是我們在這個處境上會跟我們的...要結合有盟國家啦那像尤其是我想委員剛才說的很正確尤其是說AIT的這個聲明非常清楚的那麼提到了我們在這個地方這麼有效的和平的行使我覺得今天時間很短你們未來有沒有計畫比方說結合相關的國家菲律賓被欺負得很慘啊對 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
4697.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
4721.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
日本也有啊那透過一個什麼樣聯合的作為在國際法律的舞台上把台灣聲音發出來陸委會也請上來我待會請聽一下意見那個次長繼續說所以我們在這個事情上面我們會按照這個委員的指示其實我們已經在進行了就是跟這些國家溝通然後希望有更多的國家發聲那在更多的國際場合上面發聲國際法的場域 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
4722.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
4729.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
除了法律的專業 事實的詮釋以外打群架很重要 陸委會對這事情有什麼看法對他想要建立新常態 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
4731.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
4758.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
謝謝委員那我們可能也會召集國內的相關的國際法的學者還有剛剛所提到有盟國家的一些國際法的學者比如說我們公開來舉辦座談會、公聽會等等然後發表相關的著作來去在國際法上面對於中華民國在這片這個海域上面的這個主權享有他的這個權利這個Foreign Seminar這個也不錯但那個要轉換成國際政治上的作為我只是舉例我們這樣在聯合國沒有席次美國有啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
4758.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
4782.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
日本有啊當他們在那邊提出點破中共對這個區域的脅迫的時候台灣能夠帶上就像英法德那個聲明一樣把台灣帶進去讓國際法跟國際舞台上看到台灣我們的水域空域我們的管轄權那我移動快一點我要請教國防部跟海巡署的部分是我今天其實準備很多題目但時間比較短 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
4783.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
4805.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
灰色地帶它這一個越鎖越緊越離越近32海里24海里越來越近那海巡面對的摩擦跟衝突會越來越大我們當然希望不要有摩擦我們國家是一個愛好和平的國家我們不會主動去挑釁任何人我們沒有欺負中國啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
4806.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
4819.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
我們國家沒有做錯任何事情我們沒有欺負任何國家是中國正在對周邊鄰國韓國也有日本也有台灣也有菲律賓也有他在欺負周邊鄰國 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
4821.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
4846.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
可是我們守土有責我不侵略你我不威脅你可是保護國家是做一個軍人做一個海巡署我們的水警該盡的責任所以當它越捆越近的時候這個摩擦會升高那我這要請教一個問題我看兩位怎麼社會回答就請讓我們國人知道並安心當摩擦升高的時候假設最差的狀況最差的狀況發生的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
4851.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
4870.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
我們國防部跟海巡有沒有協調好指管系統也就是所謂的我講的第一級不是開槍的意思就衝突發生的當下要用強制力強制力可能是碰撞強制力可能是用水砲打強制力可能是把他擠出去甚至於逮捕 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
4872.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
4893.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
這第一集的發生國防部跟海巡有沒有什麼樣的協調作為?請教部長我跟委員報告幾點第一點就是說中共海警也好海巡也好他們在進行在東部海域做的時候我看到我們跟海巡協同那海巡我想相對的非常的辛苦那麼比如說 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
4894.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
4921.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
中共的這個海巡他們或者海警他們在進行廣播那我們要進行反制那就是說我們一定要進行反制來彰顯我們的主權的維護的立場這是第一點嘛那第二點就是說我們避免升高衝突這個也是當然是我們應該進的但是我們就會保留我們的自衛權反擊的人力這個我已經一再說明那至於在什麼樣子的一個特定的情況之下我們在不升高衝突的情況之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
4922.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
4929.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
我們立定各項應變的作為來行使我們應該有各種狀況的應變計畫你們都有SOP都有那海軍跟海巡在某些狀況該由誰來主責也都有相關的作為我們立定有相關的資源因為他這樣一直升高上來 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
4944.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
4973.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
菲律賓發生了啊中國的動56跟他們的那個海警在那邊追那個菲律賓的海巡艇最後自己撞自己啊它也發生 他們那邊發生了我希望我們這裡不要發生所以剛才部長講的是相關的從初期的因為Dachui Go那個廣播來廣播去那個是第一集的一直到身高每一個劇本都有每一個身高的一個可能的一個一個 scenario我們都有相關的一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
4976.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
4996.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
一些計畫作為那我請教海巡署目前因為他們有一些進行的作為對於我們來講其實已經在空間上迫近在行為上騷擾到我們相關的船隻金門的那個觀光船他們曾經要攔檢嘛那我們做法是叫他們趕快跑跑到我們海巡艇到為止 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5000.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5021.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
在什麼樣的狀況下我們不排除用強制力排除他們這種侵害作為哪怕對方是水警海警保委員依照國際法規定公務船原則上是武力豁免原則但是呢我們保要維持我們的安全的話依照海巡器械使用條例我們有使用槍跟砲的規定這邊都有立定清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5022.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5047.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
那另外呢在剛才委員講的第一級時間的話這部分海巡跟國防部已經有協調在各種突發狀況我們應處作業規定另外海上資源任務協定書也好我們平常轉換的作業規定也好我們都有綠定也都有草原我今天想聽到的是什麼我還是強調我們國家不是一個挑釁的國家我們不會主動去升高局勢但是我希望聽到就是如果最差的狀況發生的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5049.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5053.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
我們國軍跟海巡並不畏懼動用一切方法守護自己的國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5055.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5083.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
我想我們會在那個聯合國憲章所允許的自衛權那個反接範圍之內行使我們應該有的自衛的固有權利好那因為今天時間關係齁我最後一個30秒一個建議就是海巡跟海軍齁其實你們的造艦計畫很多那我一直在研究你們標案你們是採財務標不是勞務標就有點像我們要買台車子買一個東西一樣可是造艦通常要花8年6年所以你用財務標的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5085.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5099.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
有三個缺點第一個勞務標有物條根據物價調整可是財務標你一標一次量很大八年造一批件到八年後造件的時候那個物價調整在財務標合約裡面是沒有物條的設計 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5100.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5118.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
所以會造成造船業者到那個時候要嘛就偷工減料要嘛就面對困難另外一個你八年一次弄一大批會產生什麼情形呢八年前還沒有AI現在有AI了也就是當時寫的規格我要按規格交貨當時寫42吋液晶電視螢幕顯示現在根本買不到42吋他給你65吋了還算違規我舉這個例子而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5124.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5137.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
所以我會建議海軍跟這個海巡的造艦計畫本席支持請參考國際有一個做法是比如說這一艘這一批十艘十二艘好某某廠某某造船廠得標 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5139.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5154.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
但是可以像我們海昆的想法一樣232也就是分批溢價簽約我雖然一次招標但是分批溢價簽約的時候第一個物價調整可以在分批次不同年度的時候得到反應 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5154.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5178.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
第二個我在不同年次有新的規格規範出來的時候我可以得到更新第三個可以節點盤點我這是一個建議給兩個部會做參考因為你們現在造艦計畫量大我看了一下我們國家的造艦的capacity快要我覺得快要跟不上來了所以這個部分的盤點可能要思考一下好不好給國防部跟海巡的建議謝謝是好謝謝委員謝謝好謝謝王定義委員接下來我們請林楚英委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5200.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5204.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
謝謝主席 主席先有請外交部陳次我們請外交部 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5208.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5228.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
好 次長首先我要問的就是有關於就是我們在昨天最後一刻得知了菲律賓就是給我們延長了這個所謂的免簽不過在這之前從這個禮拜一甚至於上週五本席就收到了許多的包括旅行社業者台商甚至於這個其他的這些想要出國的消費者的關注 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5231.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5236.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
那麼在這個部分呢我第一時間在詢問的時候當然外交部並沒有獲得肯定的答案我當然是肯定我們的護照可以再獲得這些這幾年來包括我過去關心的泰國免簽、汶萊免簽到現在菲律賓的免簽這是外交部的這個所謂積極的作為之一但是在這個部分呢到了最後一刻我們還始終無法得到答案我沒有要聊 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5253.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5283.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
去講這細節跟溝通的過程但是它確實也現在是暑假期間確實造成了一些包括旅外的這些不論是台商或者是要出國的要前往菲律賓的這種不便那在這個過程當中我們未來有沒有可能再及早因為我們現在知道它延後到了明年的七月那麼言下之意是我們有機會再往後再做延伸一年的情況底下那麼有沒有可能未來可以更快速的及早掌握 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5285.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5308.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
報告委員我們當然全力以赴跟菲律賓能夠進行相關的免簽的溝通希望能夠之後排除這樣的一個不確定性這次事實上我們在這個事前已經開始了過去幾個禮拜我們都持續的跟菲律賓政府能夠就免簽的事情進行溝通菲律賓得到通知 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5310.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5329.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
30號昨天得到通知才知道是說我們可以繼續的免簽讓別請他盡快的這個周知那麼這也是這一個這一次的整個事情上面真的很衝突那我們希望能夠利用這未來的一年時間跟菲律賓政府能夠加強外交溝通能夠確保國人的這個旅遊權利 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5331.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5343.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
這個也是給菲律賓的觀光業帶來一個很重要的收入能夠在這個基礎上面也基於兩國的理念相近的意義上面能夠進行良好的溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5345.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5362.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
好 因為這個時間上面真的都很擔心會有空窗期尤其是剛好暑假會是旅遊的旺季喔好 那麼接下來我要來主席我要請的是國防部的顧部長還有我們陸委會的沈副主委那麼也要請這個沈副先稍待一下那請 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5365.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5393.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
謝謝主席今天安排的這個題目我想其實剛剛前面的幾位委員都有問到但是我相信對於中國來說今天7月1號他實施了所謂民族團結進步促進法那麼他們其實就從今天這個報告當中可以看得出來海上的擴權跟法律的恫嚇是現在中國要進行所謂的對台灣的長臂管轄又或者是境外管制的更多的這個所謂延伸 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5393.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5402.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
那麼我們知道它的海上擴權被定義成是甲質法增擴權本席是非常贊同的因為海警船公務船或稍務船等等這種透過這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5405.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5434.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
所謂營造這個對台灣的這個所謂的管轄權但其實是虛假的方式來對外宣稱那麼其他的我們友邦其實也都為台灣發聲但是對於這樣的整體來說到底這個今天7月1號民族團結促進法除了對於台灣國人來講我想陸委會也曾經講過啦就是說這個法律存不存在其實對台灣人沒有影響因為他只要有什麼不滿他就直接發布一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5435.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5450.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
聲明然後就直接把你宣稱為台獨人士等等但是重點來了現在在場的包括不論是外交部或者是國防部我們對外的這些人員在第一線今天7月1號之後我們還要談軍購有論壇有智庫交流 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5454.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5474.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
這是國防部的部分那麼在外交部我們駐外的人員其實也不斷地在爭取台灣為台灣在國際發聲或是參與國際組織但是面對像現在這樣的一個不同層級我們的政府的官員或公務員到國外的時候首先我想先問一下陸委會好了 對 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5475.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5488.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
那麼面對這種不一樣的層級國人之外包括有可能是我們的公務員或是官員到國外甚至於是外國人士支持台灣就像剛剛我講的我們講到的海上擴權 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5491.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5518.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
這麼多包括AIT等等駐台的單位為台灣發聲甚至於菲律賓現在給我們這樣的所謂的免簽延長我們都知道VISA就是主權的延伸那麼像面對這種三種國人以及公務員恰公代表國家以及外國的NGO等等支持台灣這個部分它其實是不一樣的層次的陸委會除了給予國人提醒之外我們還有多做些什麼嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5519.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5547.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
是非常謝謝委員確實今天7月1號是中共這個所謂的民族團結進步促進法正式實施的第一天那之前也有多個國家包含像是德國歐盟都對這個法律它事實上也是全球第一步跨境鎮壓合法化的這樣子的一個法律所以我們會跟外交部一起努力協同跟所有國家的這個外管在台的外管來進行風險的這個評估那我們也會提醒我們的國人在出國旅遊的時候能夠注意我們也跟外交部來進行一下盤點 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5548.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5570.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
如果跟中共簽有這種法律互助甚至是比較親中的這些國家來講盡量也避免前往非必要的旅遊或者是轉機的行程所以會示警嗎?會有更多的公告或者是對外宣布嗎?包括說跟中國如果簽有外交引渡或者是在外交方面是比較親密的這個部分未來是會跟外交部一起來示警嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5571.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5599.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
對 我們第一步一定是先盤點那我們後續會再看適當的這個時機如果真的有需要公布的話進一步的把相關的風險比較高的這個國家再把它的這個旅遊風險做往上的這個提示那雖然時間到了我也想利用這個時間我在剛剛收到的這個資料那我們現在附錄的這個失聯盤查限制自由跟上個月又增加了13人所以我想在這個民族團結進步促進法實施之後未來這樣的這個人數會不會因為這個空洞的這個法律而繼續的往上攀升是值得注意的 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5600.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5617.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
那這個增加的13人裡面我也要再次的提醒我們的一貫道的人士又增加了三位所以中共對於一貫道的打壓現在看起來是非常的嚴重那非常謝謝委員這次的提醒那我也利用這個時間來跟國人做報告非必要請勿前往中國還有鹿港澳地區來進行旅遊 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5618.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
5637.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
好 所以說像這個數字就可以看得出來過去其實有沒有民族團結進步促進法它一樣想抓你就抓你想找理由就抓你這是中國但是有了這個法規它更有法律上面可以執行的部分好 所以說要問一下就是顧部長我們知道接下來我們在海外 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
5639.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
5667.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
包括剛剛談到的無人機條例或者是其他我們跟其他美國或其他民主國家的軍事上面的合作的時候我們第一線到海外去不論談軍購參加論壇或者是智庫交流這個部分國防部是不是也有因應做好一些第一線同仁或軍官的安全上面的準備或者是有什麼樣的SOP有些什麼精進跟陸委會或外交部有一些什麼樣的進一步的溝通或層級的安全上面的分析 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
5669.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
5692.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
本部派駐國外的人員,我們是都會在復任前的半年會實施職權的訓練那內容會包括他的駐外的工作特性,通訊保密的規定,還有還更監的情報的事務課程當然我想我們也會做一些風險評估,所以復任前都要通過一個合格的簽證 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
5693.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
5722.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
另外我們會要求所有的公務資訊的傳遞都是用保密的裝備來傳遞,然後又專人接收,來確保資訊的安全另外在出發之前,我們會再做一個任務提示確保這樣但是這個是本部的,現在剛有提到一些智庫的部分,我想智庫的部分我們會再跟他們,尤其跟國防部相關的,我們再跟他做一個這樣的一個交流 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
5723.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
5748.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
來要求所以說其實面對7月1號從今天開始中國的這個所謂民族團結促進法的實施過去一集來國防部就有一些準備那麼智庫的部分恐怕也要涵蓋進來因為他們可能用這樣的方式而且現在變成是不只是到中國危險到其他地方也一樣那不好意思主席最後請外交部這裡因為我們知道部長現在人就 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
5749.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
5775.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
是不是在國外他在台灣在台灣是不是好那麼其實但是我們知道很多時候我們都會到國外去那麼在第一線的同仁的這個部分我們到底怎麼樣來做安全上面的維護是不是有更進階的SOP好那麼之前的時候像類似的案件已經發生了不少了在國外跨境鎮壓那麼騷擾跟監等等的行為我想這個包括國防部包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
5776.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
5793.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
本部的人員都常常會遇到這樣的一個狀況那除了說必要的提醒之外那麼我們會跟這些相關的國家進行密切的溝通那麼是不是能夠在這個人員的安全上面能夠有更好的一個週延的一個保護那這個東西隨時是會進行的 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
5795.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
5815.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
那次長我就問以目前為止從今天開始您認為我們的整個安全的風險評估的係數是不是要提高那麼是不是進入其實更需要做加強安全防護的階段不過跟委員報告這個部分我們當然會加強喔不是只有我們的政府人員還包括我們的一般的民眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
5816.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
5840.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
那麼旅外的時候的相關的這個安全的提醒我們都會進行這第一個第二個是說其實這個更大的來說的話包括這個所謂的民族團結進步促進法以及相關的這個我們今天所關切的問題在海上的這些狀況其實都是在整個中國整體的法律戰的一部分那在這個部分的話我們會跟陸委會跟國防部密切的配合能夠能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
5843.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
5856.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
外交部負責跟理念相近的國家繼續的溝通,那麼我們也跨部會的繼續的合作,能夠做好維護國人的權利,也能夠保障國家安全。好,謝謝。謝謝。好,謝謝主席。是不是請國防部顧部長。請顧部長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
5880.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
5907.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
陳委員部長早本席從19歲開始跟國防部的關係你不知道我就在馬祖了所以我跟國防部也好,跟軍人也好我們跟一個大家庭一樣那麼我沒什麼事,我有砍過國防部預算嗎?一毛錢都沒砍過有責難過你們嗎?也沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
5910.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
5918.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
跟馬防部關係跟這好的不得了我也告訴我們的縣長、議長、議員所有的鄉親這種關係那麼好好,現在一個靶場部長我請問我從112年我這靶場109年開始提案的希望北竿的靶場要遷移 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
5936.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
5964.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
那麼112年的3月,113年的2月還有6月四次總諮詢都提北竿靶場大大小小會議11次那麼在行政院的總諮詢裡面跟院長、部長提過四次到現在為止的進度是多少?部長能告訴我嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
5968.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
5993.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
我要部長回答,我不要你回答你昨天回答過我了,沒什麼簡單部長你回答我我不要你回答,下去我的了解是,我們現在是就現有的靶場來做隔音牆的工作靶場進度是零,零蛋的零 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
5997.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6009.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
有這樣的事嗎?109到現在115年陸軍總部、國防部局長我跟你們的關係這麼的好,沒三過你們一毛錢靶場部應該是去年就絕標絕什麼標?部長回去請您多關心一下好不好我的總諮詢,日治總諮詢,越展也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6027.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6053.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
部長也好請你們拿你們的腦袋裡面好好裝點東西好不好,想一想好不好委員是停的是隔音場還是遷移的部分在我們的淡黃區把秀出來你看看,在淡黃區我們村莊在那裡,在正中央我停了幾次你這個靶場在中正經常打靶,你看怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6055.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6074.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
在台北市中心打板你看怎麼樣?旁邊有衛福大樓,有運動場,有中山國中,住宅在那裡打死人你還高興嗎?我提了很多次啦昨天最後一次請陸總參謀長來開會沒結果,做不了組我自己找部長來,我不要參謀長回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6083.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6109.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
下一次開始我們每一次國防委會我都要出席這一次是這樣,下一次拿看板再下去找民眾來抗爭沒有這樣的道理吧,對不對有這樣的道理嗎?陸總部你們在幹什麼?國防部你們在幹什麼?相關夜晚單位是沒有錢嗎?他編那個說多少?七億啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6110.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6114.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
兩百個阿兵哥要打靶的地方要輕易的靶場有這樣的笑話委員講的是指我們要遷移的部分對,要遷移,遷到豐山去豐山的土地是國產署的地,地都找好了遷移的部分現在應該我的了解是在做地質鑽探的工程鑽探什麼?你要有案子才能鑽探?你沒有案子你鑽探什麼啊? |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6141.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6169.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
立法院在哪裡要蓋個房子,你起碼有個案子吧有個案子才賺碳吧你不能莫名其妙跑到我家來賺碳什麼要有一個地址評估的報告要有一個地址評估的報告要完成報告部長,我公務員幹了四十幾年了現場也幹了八年,立法院待了十六年了我怎麼會不清楚行政程序咧我為什麼不懂採購法咧你不要寬我,不要汙辱我啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6172.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6176.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
所以地質鑽探工程應該是在之前就結標了地質鑽探已經在10月8號結標你地質鑽探了幾年了?5年了?8年了嗎?你要多久?你先回答我,這個靶場大概什麼時候可以完成? |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6194.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6219.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
我們現在完成了這個專案之後他們完成了專案之後應該是還要我當部長的話兩年之內給你完成我當部長的話你當部長多久能夠完成,我想你的效率比我好一年可以完成吧我想應該要再來做一個專家的環境評估吧沒關係,你什麼時候部長什麼時候能夠回答我 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6221.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6236.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
我沒有急著要你跟我三年五年,你起碼一年兩年你起碼回去回答我一下吧你今天能不能回答我,能不能在什麼時間具體的告訴我你這個靶場遷移的時限可以嗎?你說遷移完成啊?對 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6242.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6269.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
我現在可能還要再看他們後續的環境評估的結果我沒有意見,您回去起碼重視這個案子,你親自主持這樣的會議,什麼時候把它完成好,我再來追蹤你講話要當你的幕僚我再來追蹤相關的進度部長不要花一億啦,五千萬就夠了五千萬就夠了這個案子在別的地方弄一個靶場弄一個靶溝,一百公尺兩百公尺 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6271.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6294.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
200個人的阿兵哥要多大的靶場嘛,你說嘛我上次在總諮詢你也回答過我啊你說這個靶場在蕩黃區,院長也回答啦左院長說在蕩黃區確實不太合理嘛,要搬嘛對不對一直在糊弄我一直在糊弄我不然你回答我就下台,好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6295.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6323.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
你回答我,我馬上就下去,不至於我想關於有關遷移的部分,隔音牆的部分我想我們會沒有沒有,我先不講隔音牆那現在遷移的部分,遷移的部分完成地質評估報告以後再來做環境評估,那我會來盯緊這個進度,跟委員隨時再跟委員報告沒有環境評估的問題了啦,也沒有了啦那裡是一個山溝嘛有水土保持風山水土保持的問題都不是問題,部長你回答我 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6324.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6351.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
你回答我,您回去主持這個會議好不好?好,我回去會跟陸軍來我們開會來討論我希望下一次,國防委員會我再來質詢部長的時候,你能夠給我一個明確的答覆可以嗎?我一個月以後再回來,再回到這個地方來問我回去跟陸軍會做一個討論我希望我們國防部同仁不要讓部長為難 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6353.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6377.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
如果實在沒辦法,我就是院長了,院長沒辦法我就到總統府去了不要這樣嘛我跟妳講,我有刪你們預算嗎?我一毛錢沒刪過耶馬文君、趙偉在這邊,我還幫你們講話耶我還拜託他國防部的預算不要刪,妳問他?人家還說我什麼什麼藍皮綠骨的,誰藍皮綠骨啊?是不是? |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6382.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6404.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
那麼王帝雲、王逸川委員也在裡面啊他說我叫老公幹什麼幹什麼王逸川你說,你在電視上有沒有講我有啊,我有幫你講話啊我下次碰到許立民我就跟他講啊不然我見不到他啦,對不起啊好不好,部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6406.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6426.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
我早上講話語氣是不好,但是真的這個事情已經把我搞火了好不好我真的很生氣了好不好請您重視我的存在可以嗎我下去會跟陸軍做一個我不跟陸軍講了,我要跟你講話啦我要跟陸軍講話,再講已經11次了11次,來這資料給你 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6435.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6438.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
謝謝鄭學森委員接下來請沈博洋委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6463.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6467.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
謝謝主席有請這個先請海巡的副署長謝謝副署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6475.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6496.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
副組長好因為今天時間因素所以我先快一點問因為整個六月就已經又出現兩次進入到限制水域以及六月二十八也有一次疑似他們的科研船因為在之前我記得我們也是有用過水泡驅離 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6498.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6523.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
我一直都在想就是說我們現在的這個SOP是什麼就是如果他們是到什麼樣的程度我們才會使用什麼樣的手段然後來做驅離現在的狀況大概如何各位報告要分兩部分如果是漁船的話我們應用 比方說我們應用驅離 扣留 留置調查 墨入 划船等手段我們要叫兩岸條例來 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6525.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6542.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
來處罰如果我們在驅離過程他不聽的話我們勢必要我們會使用水砲來驅離廣播那是一定的對於中國的公務船依照國際法跟海洋法國際法公約規定原則上公務船是有豁免原則的我們不提高衝突我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6547.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6562.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
不挑釁也不退帳所以我們一定會運用聯合緊急針尖針阻斷我們全程便當監控然後廣播距離如果必要的話包括中國的調查船我們甚至像統計號我們甚至就是進破兆浪 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6563.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6586.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
照射強光來迫使他驅離目前的情況是照這樣做因為從大概24年25年開始他們就開始比如說看起來就是不承認你的不管是他們對於中線還是對於這個水域淨線制水域他們就開始不承認不承認的時候就會有這種灰色地帶的問題就是原本我們本來用這個當作是一個界線 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6586.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6603.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
但他現在就是不承認他會步步進逼這個會有灰色地帶的問題所以這邊就是還是請海巡注意一下就是說我們的標準當然不變但是我們絕對不能夠因為他們的進逼結果到最後標準改變這個是很危險的一件事因為標準一旦改變那就會變成他的法律戰的一環 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6605.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6621.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
我們海巡的話 堅定指望立場永遠不會變那我舉5月11號同季號科研船在東部海域作業一直到所謂東部專項他們活動結束這六月底一個半月時間海巡署發布了22次新聞稿 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6623.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6645.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
針對中國所謂的假執法增擴權或增騷擾我們嚴正駁斥它在國際法跟國際法公約裡面它是沒有管轄權跟任何海洋權利這部分我們是堅守立場絕對不會退讓這個假執法就在你們的新聞稿裡面提到說這個假執法增擴權這其實有很高的重要性因為有時候我們不要讓他們去定義是什麼狀況是我們去定義 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6646.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6664.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
我們的海域我們定義嘛所以當我們定義說比如說它這個是假的在執行那這個時候它就是那我們就用這個來當作事實然後以及我們的標準來執法這樣就比較不會被他們影響到那個邊界那謝謝那接下來我想請這個陸委會副主委謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6674.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6690.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
好 謝謝沈副主委這個因為就是剛剛提到就是再繼續往下一些就是法律戰的問題那一部分當然就是說我們現在海巡的掌握剛剛聽起來應該是沒有什麼太大的問題那但下一個就是呢這一個畢竟他們科研船現在闖入我們這個經濟海域 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6691.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6711.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
他們就宣稱這是什麼生態的保護啊什麼等等之類的那因為日非之前的事件現在中國就是故意用台灣是中國的一部分這樣的一個講法然後呢說他擁有這樣的一個介入的權利那這個對我來講就是2758號之後又是一次的法律戰這是第一層次那剛剛海巡他有他的標準這個比較沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6713.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6733.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
那接下來就是我們在反擊的時候我看到海委會其實也有講對不對就是說你今天如果真的要符合必須要是假設我們今天有人有消極的權利結果卻不發聲又或者說他是完全沒有人所主宰的海域那這樣的話才會有宣稱的空間嘛但我們都沒有所以我們這邊定義清楚我剛剛聽海巡講應該沒什麼問題但是下一個就是這個團結法 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6737.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
6755.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
民族團結這個進步促進法現在這件事情我覺得會是下一個戰場我剛剛聽到楚英委員有先問了一下就是說過往我們在2758的戰場是一個那現在因為本來有香港的國安法但這個民族團結進步促進法它所涵蓋的範圍它可以直接用刑法 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
6756.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
6777.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
就可以說反正你非統即獨嘛那這個對我們你不要說是台商啦就是任何的就算你是在台灣你只要你不主張統一他就說你是台獨了那這個時候民族團結進步促進法對他的這個法律權的擴張我認為會非常大那現在陸委會對這件事情的這個應對方案大概會是如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
6778.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
6806.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
對我們確實有高度關注這部法律事實上在今年年初兩會通過的時候我們就已經提出示警那今天正式實施那之前我們也看到說包含這個歐盟、德國、美國在內都有高度的對這部法律來提出警告那我們接下來大概就是說也是一樣一方面是呼籲就是說中共應該要停止使用這一種跨境鎮壓法律化或者是促統法律化的這樣的脅迫行為來破壞兩岸關係那另外來說的話我們也會提醒國人並且跟這個有盟國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
6807.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
6830.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
進一步的來去在進行這個法律上面的一個論述跟反制比如說像這個剛剛所提到的海域東部海域的部分我們有注意到像是德國英國法國包含像AIT都非常具體的提到台灣在這片海域有70年的一個和平的管轄權所以像民主團結進步促進法也可以用類似的方式我們跟其他的這個有盟國家共同來呼籲中國停止使用法律來進行跨境鎮壓這種殘暴的行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
6832.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
6853.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
對 因為我剛剛本來想問民旗市長但是我覺得這個應該就不用了 因為時間已經到了但是確實就是說剛剛講的我們跟友盟因為2758我們之所以能夠反擊是因為我們跟友盟共同宣稱那這一次他們對於這個海域的侵擾也是一個友盟的共同宣稱那再下一步就是跟2758跟這一個剛剛講海域侵擾一樣我們面對的是民族團結進步促進法它今天會影響的絕對也不是只有我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
6857.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
6883.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
所以在這一個方面就像剛剛副主委提到了如果今天能夠去跟友盟一起發聲明的時候因為就變成說我們自己有我們的標準嘛就是剛剛海巡提醒的就是說我們不要跟著他的定義走當然我們可以告訴民眾說中國的定義是什麼他非統極獨嘛所以我們有哪些人會受到影響但我們在國際的時候如果能夠用一樣的方式針對因為我覺得他是下一個戰場那我們針對這一個如果能夠有一些不管是共同的聲明 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
6884.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
6891.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
去反擊他的法律論述我覺得這個對我們來講應該是非常有利但我看到明其次長站起來那是不是還是就針對這個來做個結尾這樣是然後那個感謝委員的垂訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
6897.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
6924.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
從上次這個2758號其實是從智庫German Marshall Fund開始有一個長文來做那這一次我們會把這相關的中國近期的法律戰的作為第一個是說跟智庫第二跟國際法學者那提供必要的法律同時我們會在所有的這個理念相近的國家示警這個東西影響的並不是我這剛才這個委員講的還是比較這個後面我們的陸委會講的比較客氣這個東西不是一個觸同這是一個破同 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
6925.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
6947.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
對一個方式來進行那我相信對所有的國際上所有的人士的這個權益都受到這個損害那我們希望這個基礎上面能夠共同的努力能夠push back在中國這個上面的那也感謝委員的這個指導我覺得我們會全力的來進行對 真的非常感謝因為我覺得這兩點第一個就是台灣人其實大部分的人都說我們要維持現狀 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
6948.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
6964.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
但真正在破壞現狀的意思都不是我們破壞現狀的是中國所以他用各式各樣的方式不斷的在破壞現狀而且就像剛剛講的就是他們其實也會花資源找智庫找國外的政治人物擁抱熊貓派的勢力是會不斷壯大的所以在這方面就是還請外交部繼續這個對抗當然這個我們總預算也是要趕快審 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
6968.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
6992.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
但是無論如何就是說這個有預算才有辦法做事我覺得這是確實是重要的事但是在跟中國尤其在海外他們這個法律戰的對抗真的有賴各部會的協調跟合作是我們會跟陸委會通力的合作一起把這樣我方的訴求能夠推廣到國際上面去好謝謝感謝謝謝主席謝謝謝謝沈博洋委員接下來我們請馬文君委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7002.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7005.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
謝謝主席 麻煩請外交部林次長請次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7012.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7041.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
次長早次長就我們近期監察院對於外交部公文洩漏的部分其實這個因為他的調查報告很明確的指出就是在我們認定外交部有多項公文也就是有13件的公文文件被外流到暗網兜售的部分因為監察院也認為這個對於這樣公文的洩漏會損及國家的利益跟國際的威信 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7042.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7047.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
那就這個部分因為這個牽涉到因為那時候2024年發生的時候其實其實有很多人關注可是外交部第一時間他是認為這個是認知作戰而且有人刻意扭曲尤其是2024月公文外洩的部分那個那時候我們現在的副總統當時的駐美代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7069.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7070.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
我們現在這麼嚴重的資安漏洞 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7089.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7100.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
被證實以後外交部有什麼樣的看法嗎因為當時是說這個都是認知作戰那現在監察院認證以後我們的做法跟看法是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7101.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7114.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
報告委員那麼對於這個相關的這個狀況尤其在暗網上面兜售的相關的文件我們都進行了調查那麼釐清了相關的狀況並且按照這個政風機構維護公務機密作業的要點通報政風機關進行處理那我們當然會精進這個公文電子系統的這個治安防護這個部分跟吳釗燮當時的 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7130.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7134.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
部長他的失意和仁傑有沒有關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7135.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7161.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
這個部分我們連結性我們還是要再了解但就目前的了解是說並沒有這樣的一個連結那他到底洩漏了什麼因為他當時是有洩漏一些相關的文書資料有一些公文有一些機敏的文件當時是這麼說的尤其大家在關注這個案件那如果2024年有人提出來的時候外交部是用比較積極的態度我相信後續的 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7162.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7188.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
大概不會有這麼多件陸續的發生可是我們第一時間卻是認為這個是可能有人大概就是認為說本部洩密的這個機會其實是沒有那時候當時是很明確的排除這樣的一個理由可是後來發現其實應該是我們內部洩露出去的那這個部分後續會做什麼樣的一個應處 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7197.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7211.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
第一個是說這兩個就我們的理解按照現在法院的判決流出的管道有不同的地方一個是紙本流出另外一個是被電子入侵那麼這兩個是要性質上面的不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7212.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7229.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
那麼前面的這個狀況我們就不再多做的這個辯解因為有這個法院的判決那麼但是對於這個相關的我們這次被在案網上面兜售的相關的這個文件那我們當然會再強化我們內部的整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7230.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7235.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
治安的這個保護上面市長我們先提醒兩點因為今天已經確認這個部分是有公文流出去那他到底是被人洩漏出去的還是被害那有兩個問題第一個如果公文洩漏出去那當然有洩密的問題這牽涉到我們所有的治安的防護還有我們所有外交體系因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7252.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7267.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
我們外交部牽涉到的是所有國家包括我們不管是不是邦交國甚至美國甚至其他國家對我們的信任度這是一個第二個如果說被害而且持續的被害那外交部過去到現在花了這麼多錢在治安防護或者在做這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7272.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7296.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
可能治安的提升的部分顯然是沒有功效而且你花了那麼多錢那到底花到哪裡去這兩個部分都顯示我們外交部有嚴重的疏失跟瑕疵我們希望外交部第一個時間發現的時候包括像有很多因為近期我們還是接到很多的職場霸凌的案子或者還有其他相關我們希望外交部是用務實或者面對解決問題的態度去 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7299.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7323.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
面對這些問題不要等到爆發出來不然老實說像這麼嚴重都應該要有人受到嚴厲的懲處因為浪費國家的預算是一個或者我們把重要的國際關係跟這些外交途徑的這些資料把它洩露出去這個外交部都沒有辦法撇清責任那就這個部分我們希望外交部可以有更積極的應處作為好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7325.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7347.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
我們當然是說在不管是在人員的洩漏或者是在整個治安的防護上面我們都會精進作為持續的來進行我們在這方面我們內部有需要檢討改進的地方請給我們精進作為的一個做法所以剛開始說跟之前那個質疑到底有沒有關係現在還沒有辦法完全釐清就是了 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7349.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7377.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
之一的話說實在說以現在我們看到調查出來的法院調查出來的結果的話這兩件事情就是最近在暗網上面東售的文件我們可以看到調查結果嗎外交部可以看到調查結果嗎那個法院的 您是說何仁傑的這個事情何仁傑是事情那個法院不是已經做出相關的判決他是判決我是說內容這個不知道我們在請在這個過程中我們有調閱那個法院有來進行調閱相關的這個文件外交部可以調閱 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7379.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7396.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
我們也按照相關的規定能夠提供給法院以立他們的審判條件我們要知道他到底有沒有相關聯因為他有沒有相關聯牽涉到我們未來外交部在處理相關的事件因為外交部接觸到 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7397.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7413.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
相關的比如說間諜的行為或者像這些泄密的行為或者像有很多資安的漏洞等等其實外交部真的是非常前線的一個單位這個部分我們希望很快的可以得到外交部一個應處作為的一個具體做法的說明還有直面報告好 謝謝不好意思主席 借用一點時間請國防部顧部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7430.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7441.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
部長好部長我想請部長看一下我們現在這個照片上面的這個輪胎因為新聞也出來了現在這個輪胎現在可不可以用 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7443.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7462.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
它在109年的時候採購的,按照它使用的年限是10年所以我們現在來講,因為當時109年沒有限制說是品牌的部分,但是它不是在中國大陸製,所以它是在113年修改之前購買的 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7464.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7486.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
所以剛剛部長說明的是說他的什麼時候買的而不是他能不能用我們現在說我們為什麼訂出比較嚴的規格說要去紅供應鏈說只要是錄製的全部都不可以錄港澳全部都不可以用那我們訂這個的原因如果說他只是因為比較早買他就可以用那他現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7488.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7492.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
因為大家可能關注了輿論發酵了我們說全部要把它汰除掉它既然沒有風險也沒有治安的問題只因為你購買的年限那你現在就通通要把它丟掉是這樣的意思嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7502.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7517.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
這個部門還沒有做這樣的決定我們再檢討看要怎麼因為它畢竟剛剛講它是10年的嘛那它現在如果是備胎因為看到備胎那就表示它還沒使用所以它的使用的受限是10年所以還沒有到可是在我們的規範裡面訂出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7520.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7538.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
相關的規定裡面其實它就是不可以用嘛只要是錄製的沒有 它是113年之後我們新訂了以後它的採購的規範改變但是之前它所以如果按照部長這樣的說法如果我們是在109年之前114年之前採購就是我們訂出一張的標113年之前訂的那如果我們買到相關的比如說像一些監視器監視器這個可能是 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7548.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7554.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
沒有沒有 要看它有沒有有治安的危害因為它現在是一個輪胎所以你們現在還是把輪胎跟其他的又把它抽出來了這樣變成大家會沒有辦法我們有分五類我們在113已經有分五類你現在這個是戰術輪車它就已經是在第二類它並不是第三類 第二類也是不行的就是你是禁用錄製的這些相關的材料所以它是第二類 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7574.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7602.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
那接下來我再請教一下我們如果說像我們現在這些如果都不能用我們目前的一些車輛比如說納智捷跟中華德利卡像這樣子因為我們聽到很多基層的單位說現在甚至如果有個單位有9輛車只有剩下一輛可以用它的原因是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7604.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7628.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
您是說九輛車剩下一輛可以用對因為它簡單來說部長它這個就是在我們的第三類裡面因為我們當時買的時候您的意思是它採購在錢就對了不是不是我現在在講的另外一個就是這兩輛車它是我們一般的行政車輛它就是在我們的第三類裡面你只要買國產車那它採購的時候在什麼時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7630.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7637.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
先聽我講完問題我們是買國產車 它是第三類所以它只要是國產車 它都不用 它可以採購嘛那沒有問題 可是現在這些國產車包括我們納智捷 它是我們台灣產的嘛中華德力卡這個也是 都是國產車可是問題是它的零附件 所有相關的零件全部都是陸製的 那可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7660.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7688.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
現在委員就問了一個法律問題我必須要回去研究一下就是說它是在我們113年施行之前還是屬於合...按照我們當時的法規它是可以合法採購的那它如果沒有涉及到儲存運算跟網路通訊這些相關的沒有這些治安的風險的那它這些輪胎或者是其他的這些那它如果是涉及到還沒有超過使用年限但是因為我們現在法規改了我們已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7689.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7707.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
不能夠使用大陸的品牌了那這個部分要怎麼處理在法規上面是不是容許我們可以把它汰換掉我想這件事情我們可能要研究一下那採購室是不是要表示部長 這已經不是委員好 我是採購室主任向委員來說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
7708.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
7736.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
我想說這個剛剛委員講的這個行政車輛一般的行政車輛戰術車輛我們包含裝備品牌到零附件不能夠陸志平這沒有問題這第二類那第三類是剛剛委員講的是第三類行政車輛我們也知道行政車輛像納智捷中華汽車這些裡面的這些零附件確實是原廠都說它唯一的這個來源有些部分是唯一來源是中國大陸所以說我們請這個陸軍 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
7737.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
7752.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
要針對這些品項的這些錄製品一定要第一個再重新公開徵求確定市面上沒有第二個替代商員可以替代這個唯一的錄製品如果說真的是只有這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
7753.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
7783.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
大陸的商員我們就請陸軍要做風險評估也要說第一個廠商他要保證這個是原廠經過原廠認證使用的唯一的陸製品也就是說因為我們講這個禁止使用大陸製品這個這個作業指導無外乎三個原則嘛國安治安還有這個行安也就是品質安全所以我們要求他原廠一定要出具證明然後陸軍開具這個風險評估表然後專案簽合才可以使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
7783.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
7809.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
妳現在又把它全部放寬給大家去評估了我現在 那我請教一下 時間的關係如果說像這樣 妳說原來說入製的產品全部都不可以妳現在可能要開放動力系統 煞車系統底盤系統 轉向系統 還有車體的部分這些是沒有治安疑慮的部分妳就可以入製的這些相關的零附件產品嘛 對不對是 剛剛部長也說明了 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
7809.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
7812.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
如果可以那我現在要請教一下那如果說像我們國產車納日捷跟中華汽車我們現在可以這樣做那如果像因為我們軍中還有很多的車輛比如說日本製的比如說韓國製的比如說歐美製的 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
7828.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
7854.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
那他們現在有很多因為錄製的比較便宜很多他們的廠區他們的零件的一些工廠其實都設在中國大陸的時候那他們的可不可以他也沒有這些相關的餘率的時候你們可會不會同意他這些零附件是可以用大陸的這些相關的這些零附件如果他有其他的商員我們還是不同意他使用大陸的零附件 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
7854.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
7860.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
沒有 你如果商源就大家都會有啊因為我們現在 你先聽我講完我們當時採購會說它可以直接採購是因為它就是我們國產車你不可以是陸製品牌 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
7869.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
7896.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
所以如果說它相關的這些零附件會用到大陸的就不可以嘛我們原來規定是這樣那你現在如果要把它放寬陸置的只要它沒有安全疑慮就可以那我想要請問的就是一般的行政車輛我們有很多就是就是開來你可能有韓國的現代汽車啊有日本的TOYOTA我們買很多那像他們這些如果原廠證明可不可以你只要告訴我們這個就好了一個大原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
7898.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
7921.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
原則上不能使用錄製片如果有替代還是不能使用錄製片如果只有錄製的話必須要原廠認證這是大原則所以如果像這些相關的因為你如果說比如說像之前煞車系統好了那如果我們台灣有做可是我們貴很多那原廠不願意用所以你也可以同意他用錄製的是這樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
7923.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
7938.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
或者只要台灣有產你就不一定要用台灣的是這樣嗎只要有替代有越南製 台灣製 泰國製都沒有關係就是不能中國製好 我們現在希望我們國防部把這個律定清楚因為你們接下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
7938.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
7943.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
可能還要面臨很多的相關的問題因為原廠當時在維修的時候你就是送回原廠那原廠必須要買其他越南的或者什麼不是他們自己產出的這些零附件包括我剛剛講的五大系統那這些會不會造成它車子的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
7956.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
7978.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
這個也是你們要考慮的現在我們目前面臨到的困難就是你的規定通常沒有做通盤的考量結果碰到問題的時候你看我們一個單位小小一個單位九輛車只有一輛能用就是因為你一下子訂這個一下訂那個結果到最後又要把它放寬放寬以後你又沒有一個明確的對象這個才是我們最大的問題這個也會牽涉到我們整體國防武器安全設備等等相關的這些它的維護它的後勤維保 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
7986.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8000.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
這個部分請部長還有我們所有相關的後勤我們所有的入勤的單位我們希望你做一個比較統整以後的一個確切的一個說明報告好不好什麼時候可以提出來委員這個沒問題我們會向委員做一個說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8007.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8026.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
不是說明我們要明確的報告書面報告你不是用說明因為說明沒用啊你現在就發生了你在路上就被人家看到你就是用錄製的啊那你才來跟人家解釋說這以前買的規定還沒有訂之前買的那你如果以前買的全部不是要通通丟掉不然就是要都能用就是這樣啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8027.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8032.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
沒有 那個車子後續在使用提出書面報告時間的關係在兩週內提出比較具體的一個做法還有我們因應的一個我們未來要做的一個相關的規定或者你比如怎麼認定等等這個部分兩週內可不可以是 謝謝委員長好 謝謝謝謝 我們請王逸川委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8060.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8064.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
謝謝主席 我們請外交部請外交部委員長市長這個案子的緣起5月28日日非發表聯合聲明應該是屬於漁犬的問題請問外交部什麼時候知道這個訊息 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8087.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8114.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
我們持續都有跟兩國保持溝通至於日非因為峰會裡面討論到他們將要討論兩邊的EEZ的話界的問題他們只是一個意向說他們要去討論這樣的一個問題並不是已經開始討論外交部知道之後有找其他單位去討論他們要討論的東西嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8117.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8133.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
我們基本上面在這個事情上面我們當然是說政府內部大概都會了解啦我們跟像這個海委會相關的負責的這個單位我們會跟他們互動然後告知他們是說日告知了機制是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8134.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8160.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
跨部會的這個透過這樣一個機制來做吧什麼樣的機制他們有一個綠定的機制啦就是說我們會跟他們這一個有一個資訊共享的這個那他們你判斷這些其他單位什麼時候會知道你是說像海委會海委會大概跟我們外交部得到的訊息的時間差的不會太遠吧好那當時海委會有做什麼反應嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8162.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8163.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
我們是在6月1號6月1號事實上那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8177.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8195.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
6月1號所有的工船要準備要出港之前我們就掌握那5月28號日飛彈丸到6月1號這個過程中跟你們沒有關係嗎對 我們海軍署在海上直播我們從6月1號就開始好 那次長 外交部次長528到6月1號海委會知道什麼事 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8197.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8225.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
報告委員,日非談還只是一個意象,他還沒有具體的內容我知道啦,他的意象,他們要談什麼你們就是有一個機制要告訴我們國內單位,他們要開始談了嘛那這個機制是什麼啦?528,我們沒有一個法定的機制,我們大概都透過跨部會的溝通我問問其他部會,跟這件事情有關的部會,你528知道之後你們告訴這部會什麼啦? |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8225.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8249.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
就日費貸正在談這樣的一個問題然後呢?就沒了?那這些單位就沒有反應了?那個海委會有了解到這樣的一個狀況啊海委會說一定會一樣啊對啊啊529、530咧?531咧?我要看一下不,現在感覺起來感覺起來你們知道你們知道你們有機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8250.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8274.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
阿通知阿通知阿這些單位沒有反應到底是怎樣到底哪裡有理報告委員529是禮拜五禮拜六禮拜天阿那怎樣6日怎麼了那我還是有通過這個東西但是海委會他們要出港之前是6月1號不是啦他們是去執法的嘛我是說自治會要討論這件事情還不夠執法的啦如果要討論這個外國人不知道外國人做什麼事情啦那個那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8281.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8304.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
報告委員 我們知道了這個事情之後其實菲律賓代表處是有海巡秘書在菲律賓代表處所以他應該收到訊息的時候是有透過管道把這個相關訊息傳給他們的直屬機關也就是海巡署跟海委會那我們這邊知道訊息的狀況是我們拿到了日本跟菲律賓知道的最後一個是我們也去跟他們確認 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8305.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8333.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
那外交部知道這個訊息是我們知道這個訊息之後但是海巡署他們知道的訊息是透過他們的海巡的管道不是海巡署 你在說那大哥還不夠硬的啦日威在討論這件事的時候 他們是執法的啦國內的其他單位啦 你們知道了國內其他單位你們通知他們要準備什麼啦都沒通知那你告訴政府啊 今天說那個硬的 海巡署要出門 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8334.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8362.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
因為他們日非告訴我們的狀況都是說他們現在只是在探索這件事情那日非在針對這個話界出來的時候他們自己的執法單位也沒有任何的部署所以我們不可能說因為聽到他們要做什麼我們就直接趕快請海巡署趕快出來部署因為大家的執法部門對方的執法部門也沒有相關的因應反而是你知道你們有沒有機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8364.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8386.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
委員報告,就我的理解是國安會要綜合協調,而且國安會已經在第一時間就協調各部門,然後召開經營相關的會議來進行協助那將各個單位應該要進行協助的事項,有做過一個充分的討論,就我的理解是這樣好,很少看到部長自己出來解釋,部長請回國安會長官 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8389.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8392.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
也感謝部長出來支援有些內部的機制我們不便透露我們回報國安會透過駐菲的代表處 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8406.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8422.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
他們的這個海巡聯絡官那能夠這個這樣通知那這個也跟委員報告就是說從28號開始我們是掌握這個狀況就是說日非將要談這個化戒的這個事情好啦我知道啦是 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8423.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8448.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
你就說有機制就好了嘛有機制 國家有機制 你知道外交部得到訊息進到國家的機制 國家就召集相關的部會嘛這叫批評什麼 大家都有關係嘛所以這農業部會一定也有事情嘛就有一個機制一萬一萬都有掌握 都有在溝通一句說就不會後悔 又大講來講去又說拜六禮拜 你是對還是不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8451.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8466.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
加油啦,真的啦,不然外面一直在說什麼,你們都激怒,說他們在說,他們在說,跟我們無關的喔,還要跟我們說有關的喔,你們兩邊在說要注意一點我們喔,這樣不會通啦,加油啦,好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8487.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8496.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
好 我們接下來請陳冠廷委員主席麻煩請陸委會請陸委會 副主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8509.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8534.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
副主委好副主委我想請教一下剛才你們有提到說在這個東部海域的相關東部海域那中國有實施的不管是他們的這個海警船或者是現在最近的是公務船那未來可能會有我們的推測如果不斷的往上升的話就是這個狀況惡化的話甚至有可能登檢的狀況你們的評估有沒有這個可能性 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8534.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8545.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
有 確實是有這個可能性 因為之前在這個靜夏海域的時候就有發生這樣的情況所以我們當然非常擔心說如果在發生在東部海域也升高這樣局勢的話會對我們的威脅 甚至對國際的威脅更嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8547.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8571.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
那我們現在先走到淨縣制海域這個地方如果在金門媽祖這邊來進行登檢的話那是淨縣制海域對不對淨縣制海域跟我們過去提到的這個領海或者是這個國際的水域經濟的水域等等這種定位是不一樣的但是有特殊性的關係這個是屬於大陸委員會來管轄的部分那在東部海域的話是用這樣子同樣的方式嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8572.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8600.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
據我所知建限制水域的部分我們海巡署的弟兄是非常辛苦他只要進來的話我們就會靠近然後宣傳把它驅離那是在金門那邊或者是說我們有綠定的包含太平島是從這個低潮線的4000公尺以內就是這個限制的這個水域但是那是屬於我們陸委會跟中國的這個特殊的關係他們會用這樣子的方式去講東部海域可以用這樣的方式東部海域的話基本上對於中共來講是更沒有他的這個管轄權 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8601.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8620.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
所以現在他們他們現在如果來這邊用公務船的話那我們的海軍署的弟兄也是用並海航行的方式然後來進行驅離把他們驅逐出我們的那個專屬經濟海域以外就我們現在法制上面東西要講清楚因為這個12海里24海里這個臨近區這個這是屬於我們國際通用的說法禁限制的話是 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8621.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8640.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
特別是兩岸關係的條例上面來去做這個律定但是我現在要提到的是東部海域跟金門馬祖是完全不同的概念因為金門是整個太平洋往東過去就是整個太平洋的海域它就變成日本、菲律賓、台灣甚至是跟這個美國都會有相關的這個接觸也就是說它的影響很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8641.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8659.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
一旦有了這一個登船臨檢的這個狀況的話那是直接影響到國際那這是一個很明確的我們必須要向國際發聲的部分這就不是只是中國跟台灣的問題而已它是跟國際是相關的所以我們剛才提到說有哪一些這個我們的有我的國家來提出這樣的聲明我覺得是一個很好的一步但是我現在直接要很問 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8660.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8672.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
直接就來問一個問題那如果登船臨檢的話我們該怎麼做你們有跟這個海巡署有沒有跟這個國軍有直接的討論登船臨檢這件事情就是直接管轄囉那你們要怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
8673.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
8694.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
這個當然就是說第一時間海巡署會盡量的來避免這個事情的發生也就是說當中共的船隻如果因為他登船臨檢的話一定是要是海警船以上的這個等級如果是公務船科研船他可能沒有登船臨檢的能力那據我所知我們當我們現在跟海巡署這邊的一個聯繫的這個機制跟應對的做法就是如果他們的船隻靠近那如果是沒有這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
8696.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
8714.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
這個登船臨檢的這個能力的船隻的話那我們就是把它驅逐出去但如果它是有武裝能力的這個船隻的話那我們可能就是說提醒我們的船隻要注意風險並且進入到我們的這個海巡署的船隻可以應對到的這個範圍內來確保這些我們的這個漁船或者是商用船隻觀光船隻的一些安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
8714.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
8740.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
OK 所以你們沒有在我現在聽起來的話你們是要避免這件事情的發生嘛對所以就首先是監測嘛所以如果是這個一般的他們的科研船的話沒有登檢的能力但是如果是到海警相關的 噸位比較高的話就有那你們就要可能就是一對一等等的方式去做好 那我現在講的是說他已經要登檢進行登檢動作之前的最後一步的話有什麼推薦海巡或者是國軍要做的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
8741.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
8770.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
這個我們會進一步再跟海巡署也是應對上的那個SOP的這個部分已經開始演練了嗎因為開始要做這個兵棋推演的原因是因為我看這一個發展的速度是非常的快因為從過去這幾個月我們當然我們請海巡來簡單的回覆一下你們的有沒有跟陸委會有討論我們這邊是政策建議單位執行的部分請委員好我們那個事實上我們有建立一個跨部會平台像這一次東部專項活動我們應組的話我們有建立跨部會平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
8772.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
8787.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
包括送貨輪 包括漁船我們不僅利用航空局相關的廣播 包括夜電台如果有發生狀況的話 第一時間通報海巡不要理會中國所謂海警船他們的登艦往海巡的艦艇方向移動 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
8789.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
8804.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
海軍艦艇會航入在兩船中間來阻隔這第一個第二個海軍屬應用聯合勤艱爭手段我們會全程掌握中國海軍船等公務船的動態那第一時間齁如果攀重狀況我們第一時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
8809.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
8830.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
因為中國在我們東部海域沒有所謂的管轄群所以我們像這次我們就透過航港局的海岸電台等等我們廣播包括我們海軍艦艇廣播不要理會中國公務船的所謂他的詢問這部分我們會請商務船來配合辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
8831.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
8845.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
應該是這麼講如果說中國強制的來去登檢第三國的船隻的話那你們的因應作為有沒有包含一樣就是也登檢到那一個船隻上面來去協助因為其他國家因為這個依照國際法它屬於傳奇國 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
8850.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
8879.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
他那個船舶的話是由船級國來負責的不過在我們的海域的話因為他沒有管轄權我們為了要捍衛我們國家的主權跟維護海域秩序我們會介入我們會要求他們不要在我們海域自發這是侵犯我們主權這個當然是第一件事情要做的但是如果他已經登檢到我國的船隻的話你們第一時間也會派員進入我們的船隻我們第一時間會派一艘船艇到現場去處理到現場去處理那如果他們登檢的話你們也會派人 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
8880.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
8907.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
來登到我們的船上來製作必要時我們會登檢對 我覺得這是一個很重要的宣示要讓我們的不管是在就任何我國的這一個相關的船隻他們能夠有信心知道說假設最糟的狀況出現的話我們的海巡的弟兄會出現而且只要他們的人員在我們的船上的話我們的人也會在我們的船上我想這個都是這個沒有什麼機密就是一定要很 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
8908.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
8935.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
把這個訊息要給所有包含中國也要知道說我們會做出跟他們相應行動相應的作為就是一樣這個如果不做的話我相信會有會有會不斷的在不斷的在上升因為老實說他們的噸位等等都不斷的在往前走那我們能夠做的就算噸位比人家少但是我們主權的象徵還是該做那最後我想請教一下我們的這個國防部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
8943.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
8968.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
陳偉好部長好我簡單講一下就是我們的這個國防自主無人載具的特別條例那行政院的草案是被這個在野黨來去不受理啦或者是說否決也可以那我想請教一下現在國民黨跟這個民眾黨提出來的這個相關草案部長你已經有稍微看過了嗎看過看過了那 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
8970.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
8995.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
不管是國民黨或者是民眾黨的這個草案有沒有符合國防部的需求我想國民黨的這個版本裡面是有提到這個它的主管機關另外又提到一個叫主辦機關是經濟部跟國防部所以我對這一點其實已經不太能夠理解這個意思是什麼我就是要跟你講這件事情所以我也 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
8997.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9025.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
剛好我們看到同樣的部分就是說我認為這個直接屬於國防部的這個機關的話主管機關就是應該國防部那如果所屬經濟部的話那主管機關就是經濟部所以宗嘉斌委員就是我們共同提的版本裡面其實有講得很清楚那這邊裡面還有講說主管機關他說本條例的主管機關為經濟部涉及國防軍用採購事項為國防部這個是宗嘉斌委員就是我們共同提案的這一個版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9025.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9054.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
那在國民黨的版本裡面它提到的是直接寫說本條例的主管機關為經濟部主辦機關為經濟部或者是國防部在他們的第二條有這樣子的部分那除此之外它裡面的這個不管是採購的部分等等的我認為跟我們行政院自己的特別條例裡面很明定我們需要什麼樣的機型冰海型的攻擊型無人機艦程型無人機小型自殺無人艇等等它是有一段的差距那我們不是要說 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9055.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9072.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
他們的就是不正確的而是說國防部的需求在他們的版本裡面比較沒有直接的顯現出來是他沒有採購的部分他只有講說大概是6年2400億那是在公務預算裡面那我們的是特別條例所以是在不同的池子裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9073.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9089.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
一個是直接有多出來兩千一百億讓我們來去做長期的規劃另外一個是在每年度來去做審查那他是用六年來去編列他就在原本的我們的公務預算裡面再把它區分出來一部分經濟部在一部分相關的機構在一部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9089.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9109.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
所以這是兩個不同的概念一個是我們特別因應敵情的威脅要準備2100億的這個特別的這個預算來去處理一個是在原本的預算裡面可能是從某個地方抽出來說認為這個比例要作為無人載具的所以這個概念是不同的那這個不同的概念我想我們都有必要國防部都有必要去跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9111.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9137.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
就跟國民黨還有跟這個民眾黨來仔細討論一下說我們現在的最急迫的需求就是在我們特別條例提到那三項那可是這在國民黨的這個裡面是沒有那麼明確的把這些我們實際上迫切上的需求要講出來所以包含主管機關的部分因為國防部是主要的需求方嘛包含這一個我們民定的需要極端需要的無人載具的部分我想這兩個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9138.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9166.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
要跟他們的這個條例要仔細的來討論要怎麼樣來把它包進去或者是說我們也要有機會來跟這個他們的透過國防部林若仁也好還有這個部次長跟他們來講一下因為我相信還是有有很多可以改進的空間這個國民黨的版本那我希望說我們不要我們不放棄最後的努力來去跟他們來討論不然不是說不行只是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9168.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9191.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
假設我們因應的這個敵情威脅是明年是後年是大後年的話那確實只用一般預算來去涵蓋是不夠也不夠快那也沒有辦法來創造出額外額外的這個資源來去採購我們最急迫的裝置跟培養我們的供應鏈那這個部分是不是可以請部長來跟他們的這個黨團來溝通一下剛剛有沒有機會把我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9195.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9213.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
行政院版的概念跟核心把它納入對我想簡單回應三點第一點當然就剛剛講主管機關那我必須清楚什麼叫做主辦機關這個我還還還真的沒辦法理解這第一個第二個我們提出來的那個呃冰海這個健身型的無人機還有冰海攻擊型的無人機還有這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9214.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9242.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
至少無人艇的部分這是我們根據我們的建案的計畫認為符合我們的作戰需求我們才提出來那我們希望用大量長單跟迭代創意原則去編一個特別條例讓它的預算規模穩定那現在國民黨提的它是一個範圍寬得蠻大的那是所謂的無人載具那事實上我們有一些有需求的無人載具事實上我們接下來可能會接入追加預算或者辦入我們明年的公務預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9243.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9262.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
那現在有關他這個說指示說他在法律裡面指導說中央政府要編列400億那這個就是我們講的這個400億的預算由立法委員提案編列一議法委員要求中央政府要編列那中央政府編列之後再送到立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9263.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9272.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
其實我並不清楚立法院對這410要做什麼處理他是 他在立法理由說明說這樣子可以穩定裁員那他的意思是說這410他絕對不會刪嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9275.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9302.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
我不太清楚因為因為放到年度預算那就是按年度預算的這個流程然後會由這個立法委員來決定我們相關的所以他框一個400億但是沒有一個400億裡面的內容那這個400億的內容合不合我們的作戰需求那我們可能要提出來但是提出來以後他又說這個預算因此能夠穩定他似乎隱含著他不會去刪這個400億的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9305.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9326.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
還是不是這個答案我到現在為止沒有聽到他們這個起草的人的一個明確說法可是他在立法理由裡面說明這是一個穩定裁員這句話有點讓我納悶我不太清楚所以這個部分跟他們來討論一下這個400億的含義是什麼這個要跟他們來討論一下那再來就是他們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9326.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9348.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
主辦機關跟主管機關因為這樣子變得很難去審理到底哪個是主管這樣子的部分可能也要跟他們直接溝通就是說我們的特別條例還是有它的必要性因為它是創造出一個新的裁員來針對國防他們是在裡面的比例上面再去調整可是其實比例上面的調整就 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9349.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9377.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
不需要再額外立法本來就是由國防部來去應應他們的要求來去做比例的調整因為你說你要框400億或者是框300億其實某種程度行政權是可以決定說因應敵情的威脅我的這個一般的公務預算裡面的百分之多少要做無人載具百分之多少要做什麼樣傳統的武力這個是在國防部本身他就有他的專業在裡面的對 這是我們的國防部依據我們的專業然後來行使之後送到行政院行政院提出預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9378.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9407.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
就是一樣的一般的預算一般的公務預算那你再做出這個條例國防部本來就是會用這個預算裡面的百分之多少來去做無人載具這是主要我們的爭點那所以這個部分也是希望說能夠請這個在野黨針對你們的草案可以再說再調整一下來仔細的來討論一下是不是把行政院跟國防部的意見真的是完整納入因為他們才是需求方好 謝謝好 謝謝委員謝謝坤冠廷委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9417.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9432.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
接下來我們請劉起庭委員好 謝謝主席喔 這個國防部還有人會員有請好 謝謝陳勝林委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9442.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9454.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
部長辛苦了今天大家討論中國船舶常態化巡弋海運的因應作為這其實是老問題了各式各樣大小風波層出不窮大量體的艦艇騷擾讓海巡 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9460.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9483.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
這個必須出動四千噸等等的要共同出傾來處理形成消耗的問題這個也有這種軍民不分嘛民用科研的問題那甚至有小型目標嘛之前是小三板這個橡皮艇就直接長驅直入等等的問題這過去其實都有很多的討論那有沒有新的因應之道其實社會大眾比較關注的就分別針對這幾個問題先請教一下這個幾位的一個看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9485.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9510.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
第一個我要問的是最近我看我包含在你們報告裡面都寫嘛遇到這樣一個狀況的時候大體來講標準作業流程你當然就是靠近然後用廣播驅離的方式來做處理那你我看你的內容都寫不管是海巡也好國防也好都寫廣播驅離嘛這是標準作業流程這本學院尊重但是具體來講它的效果是怎麼樣這個我覺得社會大眾很關心啊比如說它來之後你廣播驅離它就走了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9511.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9529.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
還是他留在原地然後你必須要用更強硬的手段去處理才有辦法化解這一次又一次的一個風波所以具體來講有沒有這個你能不能舉幾個例子就哪一天哪一次什麼樣的狀況你廣播之後他驅離了或他不走然後你們採取了什麼樣的一個手段可不可以先簡單說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9531.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9546.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
我的理解應該是這樣,廣播區裡的話,他應該是要進入到我們的相關的臨界區的範圍之內才會做廣播區裡現在就是越來越近嘛,對不對,現在看起來趨勢上還說是這樣他這次在東部執法的話,他的現象反而是在東部的應變區內外,他不斷的進行來來回回這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9552.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9569.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
沒關係我講了嘛就是說你講比如說他到一定的範圍內我必須啟動這樣的一個程序我講這叫標準作業流程這大家都理解那我要問的是效果所以他有沒有進來有沒有去理效果怎麼樣舉幾個例子跟委員報告就是說他當他相關如果因為因為現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9571.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9592.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
我以我們軍艦來講,我們軍艦每天都有回到六七艘的軍艦,那它有可能會跨越,會逼近二十四海浬,那我們會逼近二十四海浬跟進來,有這個企圖,也就是以它的船的一個方向來的話,那我們根據不同的這個距離,二十四海浬然後再進來的話,我們會有不同的 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9593.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
9615.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
這個應處的一個我剛剛都講你有你的標準作業流程是沒有問題啊我要聽的是具體的案例你要兩個方向嘛一個是你舉幾個個案然後去說明這個方案有用或沒用我們應該要做什麼處理要嘛你用通案說明我也接受所謂通案說明就是說來了幾次你分別用什麼樣的方式成效如何你會後做個整理這樣可不可以因為要出動到國防部表示狀況比較嚴重海巡要不要說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
9620.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
9638.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
不管在金門也好在東沙也好海警船進來或者是這一次6月6號那所有公路船他有8艘有4艘海警船3艘那個海巡船1艘那個救援船8艘我們都全部一對一病堂監控 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
9639.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
9653.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
然後廣播區離其中在東部專案行動中其中有一度進到我們的限制水域沒錯我們就進破兆浪然後廣播區離一直到他離開我們的限制水域外沒有離開我們不會走 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
9654.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
9671.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
OK 所以你基本上是病行監控跟廣播劇是同步進行的嘛如果像調查船的話調查船比方同季號調查船那調查船他放儀器的時候我們甚至進破兆浪然後強迫他因為進破兆浪的話他就沒辦法研究他就沒辦法就不穩了嘛最後離開 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
9672.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
9698.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
好 這沒關係啦 我覺得這樣子我們用一個資料化的方式來處理啦就是進來的幾次 分別程度是什麼搭配你們的SOP 照常處理處於的成果怎麼樣因為大家其實比較擔心因為大家都知道要廣播距離大家都知道要並行監控但大家擔心的是 你監控他也不走啊你廣播距離他留在那個地方那有沒有這樣子的一個狀況 未來要怎麼處理這個要預作準備 這是第一個提醒第二個是有關於消耗的問題這海巡大的艦艇大概是4000噸級的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
9700.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
9719.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
四千噸級的各種艦艇其實在預算中心的一些報告等等都有示警就是說對方是無差別無時差的連續的進犯跟騷擾那你騷擾的時候你都要監控你不能不處理那就像我們的空軍一樣它其實就造成長時間的一個消耗那麼具體來講包含人力 邊線比不足包含 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
9722.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
9733.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
這個零件的維修保養的頻率可能會因為這樣做一個更新我現在給你機會說明現在遇到的狀況它的出行次數有沒有超額的狀況需要什麼樣的一些額外的政府部門的一些支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
9734.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
9752.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
當然面對中共日益嚴峻的灰色地帶威脅的話當然海巡承受無比的壓力但是職責所在我們當然不讓我們艦船艇我們從艦艦到報告這次海空一體精錐海巡還有我們國防熱線特別條例我們都有經費要建造新的艦船艇 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
9753.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
9767.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
另外呢 我們包括了維修保養 聽測還有我們勤精深系統也都有算進去那目前都在招標中我們會全力來推動用科技來扶勤讓我們能夠全程掌握然後第一時間部署我們計產體來妥適應存 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
9769.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
9787.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
這本席以前在內政委員會我們從來都不會去為難這些預算其實大家都非常非常的清楚就希望可以如期如止啊去避免消耗我要特別也要提醒一下這不管國防也好海巡也好這是人力啊人力缺口其實很重要你不能裝備都更新對不對人力都補不上來那就是個這個是老問題但今天因為時間的限制我們就不在這邊詳細闡述了 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
9788.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
9813.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
第三個本身要提醒的有關於這樣的侵擾的問題就是微型目標嘛這三板、橡皮艇、長驅直入那過去我們在內政委會在海巡討論的時候講目標小到我也沒辦法用雷達來做處理那這件事情當初就在事情發生的時候大家高度關注過了之後好像就傳過水無痕那現在過了這麼一段時間大半年了還有或者是接近一年的時間有沒有一些新型的方式去因應這種微型的 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
9814.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
9834.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
包委員我們一天都沒有卸貸我們全國海岸線1821公里我們是親自左遍我們哪些不夠的比方說在國安任期特別預算我們特地我們有規劃經費非常感謝大約的通過那目前都在招標中包括我們要增置我們的更新型的次世代的雷達系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
9835.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
9850.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
可以看得更精密更遠另外侯外縣這個寫像儀包括各式無人機比如說我們的無人機無人艇包括水下載具目前都在招標作業中那麼我們希望用科技埔形來提升海巡的傾見增能量 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
9850.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
9880.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
在這個中間的 因為我想海巡能夠掌握這本席的了解啦就是說海巡能夠掌握的武器也好 或者是相關的當然跟國防部是有落差 國防部一定掌握是完整的嘛在這中間的這個空窗期 我固定這麼說因為你現在都在招標 從頭走程序 掌握採購國防部可以提供什麼樣的一些資源 去避免這樣的事情再發生跟委員報告 其實齁 海巡的是跟我們是互補的應該是互補嘛 海巡是在小型的這個部分 他們按照他們現在所講的其實是在加強當中 也就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
9880.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
9902.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
比如說他們的應該要建設的各個紅外線的這個偵測的裝置如果能夠完整的話這些小型目標那坦白講我們海軍的部分是比較著重在這個大型的目標上面我們希望聯合因為之前有講過比如雷達系統的整合嘛國軍的跟海軍的要一起看等等這些就請再幫忙好這幾位請問不好意思主席我再借一點點時間這個外交部有請委員好市長好這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
9911.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
9929.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
這個我想詢問一下啦這個劃計案這剛剛連我們王逸川委員都看不下去了對不對這是重砲開轟對不對大家都很擔心啊這個處理跟後續的一個問題啊那當然我看你的報告嘛對不對這個到底我們內部的反應是怎麼樣這是一回事這不是本席要關心的我要問的是其他的報告因為你在報告裡有寫 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
9929.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
9956.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
就是說日非要談判跳過我方這在國內當然是群情激憤大家覺得這個有非常非常大的一個改進空間那問題是這樣嘛因為客觀上造成的結果就是中國大陸利用了這一次他們宣稱要談判的機會然後再一次的這個他片面的宣稱這個單邊的宣稱他可以來管轄這件事情那外交部當然我在你報告裡看到了你做努力你也要求日非針對這個事情要必須做清楚的說明不過我稍微查了一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
9957.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
9986.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
這個看起來日非沒有針對這個行為有進一步的說明你們要不要補充一下目前來說我們日非他們這個包括日本官方長官這些幕僚人也說明的是說他們的日非的談判不涉及第三方同時根據這個維也納合約的這個公約上面的規範其實兩國的談判也是不涉及第三方不涉及第三方是講給我們聽的嘛對不對因為他如果跳過大家就很生氣啦對不對所以他當然講要不涉及第三方嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
9987.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10000.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
你能不能主張是另外一回事但是我講你外交部的進一步的要求你報告裡寫的是針對中國大陸藉機這個宣稱執法這件事情這是另外一件事情他們針對這件事情有沒有更強烈的說法 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10001.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10022.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
目前來說日本跟菲律賓來說我們沒看到他們相應的回應那麼的確是說我們看到的是說那麼我也很了解的是說包括歐洲國家那麼德國法國跟英國有發表聯合聲明然後美國也有發表聲明這就是我要問的第二個問題就是這些國家發了聲明之後這些行為有緩解嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10023.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10046.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
行為有沒有緩解可能是那個在那個海委會在第一時間上面有掌握目前看起來並沒有在擴大的這個趨勢並沒有擴大這不愧是外交官對不對但是恐怕也很難緩解啦這所謂的聯合聲明這個次長也是專業人士對吧聯合聲明如果沒有涉及這個相關當事人恐怕他拘束力也好影響力也好他畢竟是有限的 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10046.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10071.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
我講啦,這東西是困難的,我也不想太為難外交部,但是我希望至少在話界等等會引發爭議的時候,我們至少針對我們的部分積極主張。你至少比如說我在第一時間我積極主張的時候,比如說是台灣、日本、菲律賓共同商議,對不對?那好歹大家還有一點說我們至少有些人,那個還算是可以商量的一個夥伴。如果我們自己被跳過的時候,那就大危機啦。我們在這個處境裡面是完全被動的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10072.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10101.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
所以我們也要求日本、菲律賓以後在討論因為這跟委員報告他們在高層Summit Meeting的時候其實主要的討論是他們將要討論這個事情那現在就是說我們主張說如果你們要討論這個事情的時候第一個不可以違反我們跟日菲之前都已經達成的愉悅的協定富有的協議你當然要尊重應該積極主張你要共同參與第二個也能夠讓我方的利益不能夠受到侵犯 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10101.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10116.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
如果是民主大聯盟的夥伴我們當然有資格也應該可以要到參與的實際的成果這件事情大家可以關注希望外交部反應要快一點不要讓這件事情陷入被動我們今天就不多為難了大家辛苦了 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10316.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10340.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
麻醉是有風險的有些在要先質詢是海巡署嗎還是海巡先海巡海巡的外交部海巡OK好 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10416.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10423.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
好,接下來我們請王安祥委員,謝謝好,感謝主席,有請外交部陳次長部次長長 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10430.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10445.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
剛剛其實很多前面的委員都在講這個事情我想今天這個專報基本上傳播詢問常態化是一個客觀的結果我覺得起因還是跟日非他們啟動的一個談判有很大的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10447.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10471.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
報告委員可能不是這樣子,我想中國會藉所有的機會來步步進逼,這個不需要任何的理由,他理由都是後面來找的。是,我知道,就是你們今天提的書面報告的第一頁開始,你們前言的部分,就在講到這個事情,就是5月28號這個事情,我想外交部也特別一直提到了很多次的聲明, |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10472.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10497.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
剛剛報告上跟其他前面很多委員都有在講第一時間其實我們外交部也表明我們的立場說他們的結果不會影響到第三國也會積極保障我們的漁業上的一些權益不會收拾不過我想剛剛其實王委員跟劉委員都有講到其實我們比較好奇的還是因為有這樣客觀的一個結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10499.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10528.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
你們這個報告上在第三頁到第四頁也提到嘛你們有跟他們這個日非都有講到就是說這個事情跟你們這個談判其實還是某些程度的關係我念一下嘛就是說同時欲請日非政府正式本案影響台灣權益及中國藉機分化第一島鏈團結的這個影響我說這一塊是不是可以請次長再衍生一下就是說日非這邊到底他們有做什麼樣的表達剛剛次長說好像沒有他們沒有什麼特別的聲明是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10528.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10552.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
目前為止他們還沒有任何就針對此事有聲明那麼唯一有的聲明是說那麼日非都分別的表示尤其日本會比較清楚的表述就是不涉及第三國對我覺得這是第一部分剛剛劉偉偉講過我覺得這個第二部分是很重要的這個外交部有沒有想要更進一步要用比較強烈的一個手段去請日非他們要針對這次這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10553.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10578.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
我們這個民主大聯盟這個應該是他們應該要考慮到這一點應該發一些比較嚴正的一些聲明吧不知道外交部有沒有什麼後續上的一些對策或者是你們想要怎麼去做我們就一直在這個跟日非分別的這個溝通那麼希望在這個事情上面那麼之後能夠加強 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10579.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10607.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
這個三邊的這個對話那麼能夠把這個相關的海事的這個安全喔市長我們對中方當然要表達嚴正的抗議剛剛市長說嘛我覺得對日非這個事情就這個我們台灣這個國民的這個情感我覺得應該要採取更嚴正的一些態度我們已經開始在進行積極的主張了那麼第一個是說幾個部分對於我們的這個相關的漁業潛力不能夠受到侵犯 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10608.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10628.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
這個我們跟日本跟菲律賓分別都有相關的這個跟日本有漁業的這個合作的協定跟菲律賓有海上執法相關的這個協定所以我剛剛指的這個都是就是我本來的權益或是商業上或漁業上的權益我覺得是基本上是他們導致這個中國因為藉這個你剛剛這樣說的嘛這個他們也要稍微講個話吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10630.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10652.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
我們會繼續跟日非來溝通我們當然希望他們還是要對這個事情如果大家屬於民主大革命大家應該要互相還是要做一些比較嚴正的表達我們希望外交部還是能夠針對這個問題做一些處理接下來請國防部長還有海巡的部份現在是副署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10658.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10680.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
因為這一次看起來船舶上好像他們巡弋有常態化的部分我們過去從水域上當然會進行一些監偵的工作不過現在看起來因為最近MQ-9B進來了我們就對空中上的監偵上是不是這樣子看起來會比較更完整一些些 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10681.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10690.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
我們本來就是都會搭配聯合前線系統,結合海空的偵巡兵力所以MQ-9B進來當然會能夠讓我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10695.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10717.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
更能夠長時間的來滯空來掌握各項的動態對 因為剛剛前面其實委員也一直在談這個事情就他船的類型可能會很多我們今天先不要談漁船了因為我們有一次談這個很麻煩那一般像他這個所謂的公路船啊 客人船這個部分這個剛剛這個不管是部長啊 跟這個副主長好像也提到一些這個我想再知道一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10718.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10742.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
基本上這個我們現在就空中的部分我們當然希望有空域的部分的徵收應該會比較好那這個它那個系統就我們看到的那些圖資是不是可以串聯目前的狀況?不然這個可以說嗎?您說哪?就是它徵收出來的一些圖像是不是可以即時的在這個不管是海巡或是國防這邊的一些系統上都可以看得到? |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10743.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
10761.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
我們會我們相關的這些相關的雷達還有我們這些相關的空中的偵訊到最後都會匯集然後到這個我們的共同的圖像裡面那我們跟海巡也會有一個協作的機制所以索水意義上現在從空中上看起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
10762.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
10785.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
我不曉得現在像P3C過去有一些半飛它的數量上我們去查了一下資料大概是12架左右我不曉得現在這個資料上現在我們以空中來說不曉得這個數量上因為它現在也有空域的也有飛機也有艦的這個燒不曉得這個數量上跟我們現在所需要做這個增監的部分這個功能性可不可以達到 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
10786.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
10812.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
P3在我們必要在有做要確認的時候會派P3上去來做一個確認跟委員講一下委員講的可能我覺得有兩塊的一個概念一個是我們對於水面艦水面艦包括中國的這個軍艦海警海巡的一個應處這是一件事我們對於中共的所有的水面艦的一個徵收這是一件事所以我們的徵收 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
10815.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
10834.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
會利用所有相關的海空跟我們的雷達的系統都會來增監那但是要對於水面上面的應儲那可能大家都會現在大家都要講很多方法包括無人艇但是現行的作為上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
10836.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
10865.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
海巡跟海軍還是要花相當大的心力來做一個並航的監控因為這樣才能夠長時間的應處所以基本上我想現在因為他們這個巡弋變得很常態化所以基本上的一些應處可能做一些調整所以徵收是有各種手段不只B3C無人載具然後我們的相關的雷達等等的所以海空的這些都有包括我們都可以對水面來進行相關的掌握 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
10866.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
10884.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
所以也就是在提醒啦 因為現在形態上可能有一些改變啦那我們也有抽過一些新的這個戰力的部分是是是 MQ-9B 當然也會有一定的價值好 了解 好 感謝謝謝王安祥委 接下來我們請許中信委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
10894.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
10898.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
我先跟您問好因為我在萬國律師事務所坐的位置就是您的位置 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
10924.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
10951.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
我在萬國律師事務所做的位置就是您做過的位置所以您是我的前輩所以我今天要來請教部長我在萬國做的位置萬國辦過家所以我們才聽到您講的位置在福隆大樓不管是在空中或是海面或是陸上對於中國船艦 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
10953.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
10975.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
巡台的常態化有沒有去記錄他們每一條船甲板到海面那個距離委員好我是海軍司令部常務長這位委員的這個提問我們關注的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
10977.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
10994.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
這個最主要我們關注的這個船我們這個最主要是關注他的盾位戰器跟他的武器系統我知道所以我要提醒你這一點這個部長對三國演義非常的精通周瑜打黃蓋一個願打一個願挨 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
10995.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11021.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
結果黃蓋的船來到曹操的陣營前當曹操的部將跟曹操報告說池水量不對船上不是糧而是軍人的時候已經來不及了所以各位我們在這一點我們怕中國船業半剋傷也就是說它常態化的巡弋以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11023.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11044.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
將來如果這條船載了武器彈藥載了軍人那個差距會不一樣所以我們現在必須要對中國船來到台灣沿海巡弋的記錄他現在來甲板到海平面的差距而這個從空中測不準各位台灣有很好的地力 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11051.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11064.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
所以我今天除了講三國的故事以外,我還跟各位講一個日本的故事。1905年日俄戰爭,智利因為很重視海軍,所以專程去研究日俄戰爭,為什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11079.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11105.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
龔鄉平八郎他能夠篤定二艦來到日本要到這個海參崴一定是走慈禧馬海峽也就是對馬海峽而不會講 而不會走這一個純阿魯純阿魯海峽就是我們京青海峽因為日艦 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11108.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11131.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
以及日本軍方,善用台灣的苗栗山區,已經測得二艦裡面有一艘缺煤,到中國去加煤其他的船,池水量不深,表示煤炭已經快要不足,不可能走慈安路海峽,所以一定是走慈水門海峽 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11133.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11161.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
對馬海峽,所以東鄉平八郎在對馬海峽全部日艦在那邊等待他,用一字型在全部撿回如果日艦分成兩邊,鎖兩個海峽日本就會戰敗所以各位,台灣有很好的地理位置所以中國船艦來巡台軍演,我不怕 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11164.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11189.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
環營來越多來越好每一條船記住他的差距我們國防部要記錄他的差距下次來如果是新船特別注意如果已經來過而他的差距縮小表示船上有彈藥有人員這是我們必須要善用從東鄉平八郎他打勝日俄戰爭 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11191.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11215.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
利用台灣的地理優勢所以你從空照圖測不出這個距離你必須要善用台灣的山區中央山脈去測得那個差距只要來過的知道他那個差距新來的記錄他第二次來的看他有沒有異狀台灣就可以保障我們的安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11217.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11246.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
部長您覺得我這樣一個粗淺的歷史上的經驗您贊同嗎謝謝委員指正有關委員的說法我們到時候會來看看怎麼研究但目前現行的做法因為現在我們大家關注的是他來之後他的補給船多久可以來做一次補給因為按照目前的模式來看我們注重的是他的狀態所以我今天來不是看我的老長官顧立雄律師 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11247.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11274.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
我因為看到你們有這一點沒有從歷史得到知識所以我特地來用這兩個歷史故事我所講的是真實的戰爭所發生的經驗而且是利用台灣的地理優勢苗栗的山區俄國軍電經過的時候日軍已經完全掌控東鄉平八郎已經得到電報知道怎麼對付所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11275.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11291.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
不用怕中國的艦艇來圍巡台灣只要我們有充分的準備部長非常的聰明我在律師界他真的比他聰明的律師不多所以賴總統能夠用部長來當國防部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11294.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11323.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
我長期當空軍權力保障委員我們看到空軍的建額包括沈一鳴還是少將的時候我看到他的名字沈一鳴這個人會一鳴衝天結果他真的衝天成為司令我只是沒有想到他會掉下來而已所以各位我們看到今天我們國軍國防部有這麼多英挺的將領所以我們不用怕所以部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11324.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11328.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
是我可以接受我這樣一個粗淺的看法從歷史上得到一些知識 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11330.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11359.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
我們根據委員的指導我們來研究一下如何來進行這樣子的一個一個紀錄跟探你只要在中央山脈架設長距離的望遠鏡就可以測得每一條船它的甲板跟海平面的差距下次來如果比較淺比較深那就有異狀非常簡單我小時候就會 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11363.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11372.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
讓部長做一個參考謝謝各位謝謝徐中信委員接下來我們請鍾嘉斌委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11392.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11416.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
謝謝主席主席在場與會先進列總局官首長官員會長公路夥伴媒體之女士先生有請國防部顧部長還有我們的中科院的李院長好那先在這段時間先跟主席謝謝因為本來今天的專報但是我看主席剛剛有問了無人載具所以接下來呢我就用無人載具來說明一下部長好 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11419.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11432.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
目前無人宅局的相關法案有四個版本 行政院 國民黨 還有民眾黨已經本人的版本簡單來講幫你很快的做一個介紹國民黨版有23條 本席的有16條 行政院版的只有7條 民眾黨的17條 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11435.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11461.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
那大概呢它的一個主要的特色呢國民黨是用年度預算而且有刑責本席呢是主要在產業創建那至於呢你們行政院版本是純採購而民眾黨呢他是反對用特別預算那我現在來幫您帶一下我們的基本的核心基本上呢就核心的概念來講的話行政院版基本上就是建置大量的無人載具的一個建置那本席比較慘 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11462.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11476.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
歸重在軍民通用而國民黨我很訝異的它強的是民主供應鏈制的稱許那至於民眾黨團呢它是重在帶動無人機那至於主管機關行政院版是國防部那至於另外三個版本都是以經濟部為主導 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11477.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11503.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
那麼跨部位的機制呢本席跟民眾黨另外設有無人載具的產業推動協會在行政院之下然後呢無人載具的定義呢國防部就說我要買三種那麼國民黨呢只有說他不買太空載具而民眾黨呢只能買無人機那至於採購的項目呢也是國防部的最明確那發展的架構的部分呢跟測試大家很關注呢就是測試場域那在目前呢國民黨他的中長城的檢討機制呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11505.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11527.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
他跟民眾黨都是兩年檢討一次但是呢 國民黨比較特別 他還規定生產的場地分三個地方而我們除了國防部之外呢 三個版本都有強調測試場域的需求那麼至於民眾黨還很特別 他有一個電池頻譜跟電站的這樣的考量那麼 但是本席跟民眾黨也有討論到人才的培育 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11527.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11554.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
那在於產業福祉跟國產化的部分國民黨規定很清楚 國產化五十八十多少那麼本席的大概只有授權給行政院去定行政院版本根本沒有寫至於民眾黨團呢 他們有一定的比例那至於國產化怎麼去定定我的是授權給行政院那至於關鍵的零組件的部分我們怎麼去投資呢那麼國民黨是要求用國發基金民間共同投資那我是用產業福祉條例來涵蓋 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11557.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11572.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
那民眾黨呢是用既有的中小企業那麼租稅優惠本席有訂那現在黨團呢沒有特別值得一提的民眾黨特別強調的它的條例呢是要用共同供應契約來供應啊那本席的呢跟行政院的也比較接近就是不受採購法第19條 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11574.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11581.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
以便讓國防部可以迅速的快速的獲得那麼在資安跟供應鏈的部分大家都有提到飛鴻供應鏈可信賴的認證這個部分還有提到第三方檢證只是國防部反而自己行政院沒有提到只有提到說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11590.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11608.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
那麼怎麼樣去達成費用供應的付之缺乳那至於其他的版本都有談到國際的合作更重要的是國民黨的版本還有刑責所以嚴格來講這四個版本國民黨的版本其實某個程度上也相當的嚴厲啦那至於預算跟財政紀律的部分行政的版本是2100億國民黨很特別他用常態的 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11612.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11639.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
年度預算卻規定400億6年那總共2400億至於本席的部分呢是採用特別條例的部分由行政院自己來提而民主黨是絕對反對特別條例的特別預算的那至於其他的舉債限制我的跟行政院的都有受到不受公共債務法的限制而流用的限制還有社福支出的保障本席的都有明文也可以說本席的呢比較重視財政紀律的維持至於預算的用途的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11640.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11641.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
還是要強調一次民眾黨還是強調 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11643.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11670.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
共同採購全售期那至於年期的話呢行政院刷120年本期的接近五年民眾黨的沒有限制而國民黨的六年那最後呢我要提到一下報告跟監督機制行政院版的複製缺爐而另外三個黨的版本呢都有包括報告獨立評估審計跟相關的執法的授權那麼也讓部長知道一下行政院版有這些問題最後呢我這邊特別要提說一下民眾黨真的AI認為他有特定的亮點 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11673.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11687.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
那大概提升起來呢他是要發展先進交通不過呢如果從三個版本比較起來最前瞻最固產業的是民眾黨但是呢他完全對於國軍的迫切需求呢比較不能滿足 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11688.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11716.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
最後總體來講我們做一個分析行政院版是一個任務型的採購國民黨的它是常態化的法制本席的版本是希望創建產業而民眾黨它是希望政府有補助變成環境的建構者不是花錢比較大的分歧還是民眾黨它只用特別預算至於通用的範圍民眾黨的限定是在無人機至於國防監獄的急迫性大概本席的跟行政院版比較能夠呼應 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11718.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11725.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
那至於供應鏈的安全的部分呢其實行政院本的比較少提到好 那麼以上做了這樣的一個最後一句話的總結國民黨的版本就是最滿責 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
11729.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
11750.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
監督最嚴格法制最深入那本席的呢是兼顧國防跟產業行政院門的最精簡聚焦在快速的扶持建軍而民眾黨呢他是前瞻要跟國際接軌部長簡單來講今天如果這四個版本你能不能簡單的說你希望未來通過的版本的長相是什麼樣子簡單因為主席已經站起來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
11751.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
11769.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
我想我們從我們的作戰需求面來講我們還是希望就我們現在已經完成戰力需求的這個項目能夠盡快的來以一個資源集中規模穩定的方式來儘速獲得那至於其他的版本的部分的話我想特別 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
11770.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
11791.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
就國民黨版本的部分我已經有說明了,國民黨版本的部分因為他說要求行政部門要提出一年400億,那又晃入年度預算那其實我並不是很精確的知道,國民黨版本在提出這樣子的一個所謂年度的400億的預算的要求之下,那他是希望要怎麼進行審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
11792.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
11821.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
那這個裡面的作戰的這個需求是什麼然後所需要的相關要提出來的要供這個因為它涵蓋的那個三大面向也還蠻廣的不是只有我們國軍所需要的這個項目所以我並不清楚它放入年度預算裡面要如何來進行所謂的審議尤其特別是由立法機關自己說行政預算要怎麼編列這件事情我想還是蠻令人困惑的 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
11822.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
11838.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
了解這跟之前的軍購特別預算類似但是我最後一句話我是建議行政院王副回去思考一下未來在立法院審議的時候有可能三個版本是到經濟委員會那如果能夠國防委員會就行政院版來進行討論雙軌進行有可能在預算的額度會在這邊來討論而產業的發展所需要的法制規範跟環境會是在經濟委員會那我們希望透過這兩個委員的合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
11848.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
11860.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
一方面能夠兼顧我們國防建軍的快速獲得需求也兼顧到產業的發展那希望部長回去跟行政院反映希望這四個版本在未來列完審議的時候呢行政院要妥善的因應作為 謝謝謝謝 鍾嘉斌委員 接著是黃建斌委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
11878.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
11881.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
好 謝謝 之後我們有請外交部跟陸委會 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
11890.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
11908.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
市長胡主委好 首先我想要請教一下市長市長最近有媒體報導出我們外交部有13件公文流入案網這件事情那監察院也今天也證實這個外流的文件內容跟我們外交部的公文相符我想要請教一下市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
11910.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
11932.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
就是為什麼這樣的機密資料匯流到岸網去那這樣有誰要來負責未來要怎麼防堵其實這幾年立法院並沒有大幅刪減我們外交部的這些資安的預算那所以人民一定會懷疑說預算給了 設備也買了結果我們公園還是外洩那這樣的資安真的有沒有花在島口上是第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
11933.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
11951.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
第二更嚴重的就是說在當初外流的公文裡面涉及到當時的駐美大使蕭美琴返台的時候透過外交部函請官務署免於屍酒查驗一次那這件事情當時也引起社會高度的質疑那外交部第一時間是強調這文件的來源可疑 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
11952.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
11976.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
那甚至是指向是境外變造偽造的這個任職作戰那執政黨一直以這個任職作戰來回應外界的質疑那現在檢察院調查已經證實相關外流的公文確實存在內容也跟我們外交部公文相符市長外交部是不是欠國人一個交代那當時我們把所有的質疑都貼上任職作戰那現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
11978.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
11996.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
到底當時是在釐清事實還是在轉移焦點我想今天我們要指引的是說我們外交部面對外界爭議的態度你涉及到小米型的公文外流的時候外交部的第一時間選擇全面的否認貼標籤那現在你建財院證實這公文內容都相同這個已經不是單純的資安問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
11998.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12016.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
這個是政府的誠信問題我想今天我們被證實的是13件公文能夠保證之後還有沒有更多的文件會曝光外交部不能每次出事都敷衍了事我想這個是讓人民對政府的信心另外這部分我就讓市長了解就好不用回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12017.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12036.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
那個我要說明一下,那個公文所謂的切到這個校部總統的這個部分,真偽還是難辨。那麼我想這個東西直接來說,因為我們有,的確是有公文洩露在案文上面,直接推論到這個公文就是為真,我想這是一個過於快速的一個推論。 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12037.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12061.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
那麼第二個是說本部加強包括治安包括人員管制在這個整個防止未來的這個文件的外洩上面我們一定虛心的接受這個委員的指導以及監察院的調查的報告這個完全沒有疑慮我們希望我們未來做事讓民眾能夠安心跟相信我今天想要請教一下陸委或副主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12063.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12081.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
所以很難得我們在國防委員會能夠見面其實在擔任內政召委的時候其實我們的互動一直都不錯那不過最近的這個鳳梨世家事件其實讓很多國人對於我們立委會的做法有一些質疑那上個月台中縣長勞欽林錄製這個影片幫農民賣世家民間團體的農民團體去簽署這個採購備忘錄錄會第一時間大動作定調就是統戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12090.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12116.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
然後甚至喊請內政部去行政查處對付基層的農民跟災難的行政首長你們速度是快那反觀目前法院日前法院審理這個外交部部長這個助理涉嫌的這個共諜案的時候起訴的內容都涉及到總統行程等高度國家的機密面對這樣重大的國安漏洞跟用人的施查 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12117.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12127.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
陸委會就全體噤聲連一句要求行政察察的態度都沒有所以這個事情會讓大家覺得是不是有雙標政治雙標的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12128.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12153.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
那今天副主委你也來了我也讓副主委知道說這些事情你們還是要明確交代未來陸委會查處的標準到底是什麼是不是看顏色 民眾會懷疑這是人民對建物的信任啦那我覺得 本身認為國安不應該是這樣子那法律也不應該雙標那面對台灣國安的這個防線才會真的有效那也希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12154.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12174.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
未來我們陸委會在做這件事情能夠更明確的告訴大家哪些我們不會踩到陸委線這件事情那謝謝謝謝副主委謝謝是非常我需要說明嗎首先就是那個我們那個鳳梨世家今天早上已經寄到陸委會了我等一下中午回去會馬上品嘗 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12175.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12196.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
那在第二個就是說剛剛您提到的這個部分來講因為這個海峽論壇的部分事實上是在馬慶總統的時候就是定調那我們在海峽論壇舉辦以前的時候也已經有對的說明主委那天都來辦公室跟我報告過了我都能夠理解但我認為說這兩件事處理的態度不一樣會讓我們不禁懷疑是不是有政治雙標的方式也希望未來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12197.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12206.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
查處的標準能夠一致那也謝謝副主委今天的說明因為時間關係不好意思我就不再讓你回覆我們想要請回到今天我們今天討論的這個專題也請那個顧部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12220.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12235.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
全球規模最大的多國海上聯合軍演2026的環太平洋軍事演習2024在夏威夷舉辦總共有31個國家大概25000名的官兵參與演習堪稱是全世界最大的海上軍演 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12236.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12262.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
我想韓太軍演它最主要的核心的意義在於強化盟國之間跟夥伴國家的協同作戰的能力來維護印太地區的海上航行安全然後達到區域組合以及維持地緣平穩的這個戰略目的我們說的就是透過多國的海上操演讓各國的海軍透過軍演能夠了解彼此武器系統的配置提高戰時的作戰效率 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12263.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12288.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
這一次的環帶演習我國還是沒有辦法參加這個我們也覺得很可惜因為難得有這樣的機會可以跟多國一起參與這樣的演訓我們如果說可以透過這樣的演訓也可以了解到彼此作戰的系統未來真的暫時說我們要怎麼樣來協助然後也對我們在做我們台海的這個防衛的時候有很大的幫助未來如果這樣機會我們希望能夠多多參與 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12292.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12315.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
回到今天的主題就是我想要請教部長未來台灣一級專艦的規劃方向過去不管是自製或是外購我們一直希望能夠獲得神盾艦透過神盾艦優秀的雷達指揮系統能夠抵禦共軍龐大的飛彈攻擊可惜到現在我們一直沒有機會獲得這次環彈演習美軍來幫我們夢寐以求摸鼻彎耗 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12320.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12346.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
這個神盾級的巡洋艦拿來當作靶船這該沒菜啦那部長我們2014年的時候其實就有向美軍採購兩艘在服役的這個中派里級的這個巡防艦那面對面對中國這個龐大的飛彈以及這個無人機群我們現有海軍的這個戰艦是目前是幾乎無法來阻擋那國造的這個神盾艦仍然在未定的情況下國防部有沒有考慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12347.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12348.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
您是說向美方採購嗎?是 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12364.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12385.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
我想這個部分依慣例我們不會在這個公開場合予以評論好 謝謝部長那部長那在因為時間關係我在挑 直接在聊就是說因為無人機的出現在戰場會出現讓各國對於整個戰略分布重新有新的思考那像英國 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12386.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12410.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
他原本是要規劃有13要達到13艘傳統的主力戰艦也因為這樣他改變了他的整個計畫然後改採用平價這個通用戰鬥艦我想這也是因為無人機的這個威脅他英國規劃這個通用的戰鬥艦他不僅是肩負英國的海上安全同時他也會擔任無人系統的控制樞紐未來在控制空中 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12411.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12432.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
水面跟水下的無人載具來共同抵禦敵人因此可見未來在無人載具上的通貨方案下過去傳統的反潛為主的傳統戰艦會因為無人載具而改變目前各國因為面對無人載具的防禦開始思考新的船艦的規劃方向我們有沒有這樣的規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12434.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12442.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
現在我們本來就有運用這個監偵型的無人機來配合艦艇執行這個聯合勤監政的任務未來的話我們會籌貨多型的無人載具不管是機還是 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12450.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12466.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
就包括我們的軍艦的採購部分啦是不是 就未來的艦軍的部分艦軍的部分我們當然會將無人機 無人艦增型的無人艦增型的無人機跟無人艇會來結合來建構一個海域決志的一個 完整的海域決志 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12467.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12494.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
不過不是有意思是說未來我們的艦隊的部分是不是有考慮像英國這樣是採用這樣通用型的軍艦它用比較平價的方式它的作戰方式跟以前可能不太一樣我覺得你的意思應該是有人艦帶無人艦啦是不是你的意思是這樣這樣子的一個模式在台海的這個在威脅應處的情況之下要混成灰色地帶跟這一個全面入侵的狀況那這個部分細節如果我也想要知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12495.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12504.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
我覺得我們可能可以再私下討論一下好 謝謝部長部長這個整個國際因為真的無人機的出現之後整個戰爭的形態都改變了 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12506.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12523.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
那面對現在的無人機的戰場其實也會其實我們傳統戰機它也變成更大的一個目標我想這在未來建議上就要多多思考那也謝謝部長跟還有我們外交部次長還有我們陸委會副主委大家辛苦了那以上諮詢到此結束好 謝謝謝謝黃仲斌委員接下來我們請賴世保委員上台諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12539.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12548.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
謝謝主席以及各位先進有請這個陸委會的副主委請副主委陸委會省副主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12552.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12557.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
我簡單的問題啊 請你簡單回答按照現在的氛圍 你看對台東的世家將鳳梨喊打喊殺然後對兩岸的交流喊打喊殺是不是現在選舉到了有人告訴我 那你聽我講完 我的問題還沒講完在選舉期間 最好不要去大陸 這句話對嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12573.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
12599.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
在選舉期間最好不要不要去大陸不是只有選舉期間只要風險持續升高的時候最好都不要去都不要去非必要那你乾脆我們就行政命令行政命令下個令從此不接觸不就好了這個現在這個現在自愛難行啊這奇怪這兩個的矛盾叫大家都不要去你剛才用白話文章就是說最好都不要去因為老共的活動都是統戰對嗎 我你說對嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
12602.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
12609.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
不完全 對所以你剛才話前後矛盾啊你說沒有選舉的時候選舉的時候不是只有選舉的時候不要去選票都不要去不是只有選舉然後也非必要當然還是有必要的非必要都盡量不要去 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
12620.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
12640.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
對 非必要盡量不要去那這樣子喔 陸委會可以踩掉了啦陸委會你看你的宗旨就是促進兩岸交流 對不對你們現在陸委會就是跟對岸吵架委員會就是這樣 你看就笑得同意我們是因應 笑不是同意啦笑不是同意 委員我覺得還是要稍微說明一下不要說明 來 因為我時間有限啊這個 這個這個市長啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
12646.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
12664.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
我知道你政治正確啦只要大陸的活動就是統戰什麼統戰 最好不要去選舉行政的話這是陸委員的意見 不是陸委會的意見違反反滲透法這不是陸委會的意見這不是陸委會也不是本人的意見你剛才就這樣講並沒有 並沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
12666.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
12669.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
我覺得國會殿堂是一個公開的殿堂對我剛剛不是問你說選舉期間不要去嗎所有時間都是只要風險在只要風險在非必要什麼叫風險在國人賦入的風險什麼叫風險有可能隨時被關押或是說隨時被關押 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
12682.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
12707.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
比如說今天我們公布出來的案例到今天為止又比上個月增加了十幾例所以包含像是宗教特定宗教人士特定的這個背景的人士他如果非必要然後擅自前往這就不是什麼一貫到的團體有去啊對沒錯所以我們上個月又增加了三例有沒有人被抓有幾個到目前來講據陸委會已經掌握到的資料是23例總共他們幾個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
12709.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
12719.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
總共 一貫到嗎我們去的人多少這我不知道 因為現在我們這個是自由民主國家所以要賦入 尤其是他如果真的要去旅遊我們沒有辦法掌握我們國人去的人數 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
12721.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
12730.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
這個你請問矛盾啦所以這個你就是反正老公是活動就是統戰啦都忘記對自己都太沒信心這不是我講的這不是我講的那個副主委啊是他要統戰我們我們也可以統戰他們啦對不對讓他信奉台灣的民主自由我們沒有要統戰他們對不對我們要讓他知道台灣的民主自由多可貴好你請回你請回我們請那個外交部的陳執掌好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
12750.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
12762.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
現在台灣的GDP一直成長其實就經濟來講台灣是表現相當亮麗但是台灣人的Maturity大家最不滿意的最希望得到是國際空間那我現在就舉例來講這個Ikea |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
12768.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
12771.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
國家部沒幫什麼忙啊WHA也沒辦法去啊公規部林部長都說我贊就我贊實質不像韓院長講的喜歡跟台灣戀愛不該不要跟台灣結婚這不通啦 想辦法跟台灣結個婚嘛 對不對那你說我們正式綁架有困難最少國際組織IKEA有沒有辦法進去 有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
12795.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
12813.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
IQA我們也透過包括主席國加拿大包括其他的理念相信國家不斷的在努力但是都沒有結果啊沒有結果最重要的原因是因為老共聯合國會的他打壓這幾十年都在打壓了Interpol也沒機會這也都在努力之中在努力什麼時候會有成果 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
12821.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
12832.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
那個好消息一定會跟委員提早報告目前都沒有在今年底前也沒有什麼都沒有來來來我就問你一個讓你有機會發揮的是年底在中國大陸深圳舉辦的WTO我們可以進去嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
12838.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
12861.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
您是說APEC嗎?那現在我們當然都是以去會規劃那麼中國也承諾那麼他會讓我們這個按照這個APEC的成立的憲章來那個對我們的這個按照慣例按照他的相關的這個規定讓我們也是正向的期待我們是用APEC是用Chinese Taipei |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
12866.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
12892.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
我們用Chinese Taipei對這個他也講這是他的一中原則你要認真計較的話連這個都不應該去我想中國在全世界他在一中原則CMN他所希望推動的是China Taipei不是Chinese TaipeiChinese Taipei其實對中國來說那你講一個喔亞洲開發銀行用什麼名稱進去的 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
12893.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
12898.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
這個我要問一下我們的國主的這個...我告訴你 叫做台北康瑪恰納我們是創始國 我們是創始國我們的名稱被創改為台北康瑪恰納然後兩兩點點 繼續去不要懷疑啦 我跟你講事實啦 就是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
12914.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
12922.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
最後請今天的主角 請部長好不好 郭部長我時間已經到了 很快就把這問題講完 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
12940.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
12959.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
這個 現在的題目 今天的主席英明 排這個題目說中國傳播常態化對什麼什麼五國海域的因應作為等等的請問 他當然就先把台灣就變成內海化就你的了解 工農部掌握的資料 現況達到它的所謂內海化的百分之多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
12965.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
12990.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
我想中國的內海話是他的一個企圖嘛那我們針對這個內海話的這個企圖要加以對應那所以要進行反制那我們跟海巡合作就我們國軍的任務上面來進行反制那另外也要向世界來進行溝通那世界民主國家也會來進行自由航行 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
12991.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13015.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
海巡在那裡護的時候請問你什麼時候海軍可以現身您說哪一塊最近來東岸不是常常來東岸嗎海巡在處理但是萬一因為他們隊伍比我們大太多了什麼時候海軍要出動什麼時候海警的部分原則上是由海巡來應對但是海軍會根據支援協議來進行支援 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13018.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13042.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
什麼情況嘛 我們沒有聽懂我想這些情況的部分就是各種的應變的狀況的一個處置如果我們覺得它需要支援的我們根據支援的協議來進行有沒有可能今天的因為配合你們要推出一個無人機招待黨都支持無人機有沒有可能用無人機把它驅離讓它不要靠近我們的20海浬有沒有可能無人機的驅離無人機驅離他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13048.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13062.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
無人機驅離海上的艦艇這個方法我還沒想到委員可以指教一下怎麼樣用無人機來驅離海上的艦艇這個要不然我們發生無人機無人機會協助我們進行監控我們的眾生一直被減少台灣快要被內海化了 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13072.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13087.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
所以我們海巡海巡跟海軍都非常辛苦啊每一條船都要並航監控我們當然你發現其他武器都來啊現在來講的話你們提了一個這個兩千一百億啊國民黨團幫你加到兩千四民眾黨是沒有上線你有沒有money and happy啊蔡黑黨對你這麼好給你增加這麼多錢你沒有money and happy沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13102.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13119.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
沒有委員如果再問是問國民黨版本還是民眾黨版本沒有沒有沒有 我講金額不然講什麼就是金額 民眾黨版本好像沒有金額沒有 他就是沒有上線啊你要多少都給你啊沒有沒有喔 是是這樣我看半天他的他沒有他沒有上線他沒有這樣不是沒有上線他沒有這樣講 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13122.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13151.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
最少國民黨的版本是要拉到年度預算啊國民黨給你編成2400億多300億多17%你沒有more than happy嗎那個委員他說要行政院要編這400億的預算然後再送回到立法院按照年度預算進行審議當然要按照年度預算啊否則監督力道就解鎖了賴委員的意思是說就這400億的預算都不會把它刪減 照案通過什麼東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13154.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13169.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
因為國民黨的版本是說我們每年要提400億的無人載機的相關預算送到立法院來嘛那他說這樣子財源就會穩定嘛那我只是反問說那國民黨委員在碰到我們400億提出來的時候他是不是一毛不刪這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13171.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13173.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
不會一毛不刪啦 不會一毛不刪你不應該反執行啦你不應該反執行但是我願意跟你回答刪的不會很多啦刪的幾乎幾乎不會刪啦賴委員的這個意願應該會登錄在立法院公報上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13186.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13194.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
您為了支持這個預算刪的...刪的很少啦 都已經提這樣子的 刪的很少所以我才覺得說 部長啊 你不能胃口這麼大這個... 這麼... 這麼便宜還賣官 多了300億多了300億 你還不高興所以叫我們每年編400億啊 又不是我寫的 是國民黨的黨版寫的啊多了300億 我問你 你高不高興 結果你 不高興 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13211.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13214.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
不是 我是問說 那這個預算送進來賴委員會不會把他刪喔 我跟你講 刪你少一條毛 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13222.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13227.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
三很少的前提就是你做到巨石以邊你做到total transparency就透明化你沒有圖利特定的無人機的廠商這些你遵循政府採購法這些123123通通加進來我就算人少 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13251.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13277.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
如果我們看到的你這裡面怎麼搞的就是給那幾家就是給那幾家對不起那一定是大看特看這是絕對的所以我要跟你講的我要跟你講的其實我更在意的是我們的無人機的技術升級這一方面其實非常重要這個會到經濟部去審經濟委員會我提了個案子怎麼讓我們的無人機的技術 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13279.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13299.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
大幅提升目前來講我們在賣我們講得很好啊所以這個東西你這是頂面賽這個是井上天花我們去年五年級的產值一百二十九億喔是千年的澳大利亞股票還多然後我們政府也推出一個四百四十幾億補助啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13304.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13319.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
已經在補助了 結果你現在又來這個東西所以當然要回饋到年度預算年度預算跟特別預算最大區別在哪裡年度預算監督力道比較高它的法規規定非常嚴格特別預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13320.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13335.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
來講的話 老實講 那個監督力道 鬆的太多這個就是為什麼 我們堅持要你賭一算我們的特別條例通過要送特別預算每個案子也是要送進來給委員審議啊也要委員會通過才 然後還要大院通過啊好 接下來我們請問小林委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13353.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13367.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
好 謝謝主席 我在這邊首先先有請陸委會的省副主委老姊我先拿下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13374.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13377.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
其實我今天本來沒有準備質詢稿要質詢的題目要問這個省副主委可是因為剛剛前面聽了有委員在講到就是有關於區大陸的政治風險的部分然後就讓我想到就是說是好像從7月1號開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13392.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13420.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
今天對對今天開始然後赴大陸港澳地區的公教人員都必須要事先經過核准之後不是我誤會了我今天要說的是那個中共開始實施那個那個宗教我講的是說我們台灣就是現在好像是人事行政總書才剛發布一個新的一個命令就說從7月1號開始然後公教人員赴大陸港澳地區的都必須要事先經過核准是吧這是陸委會的意思嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13421.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13435.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
所以是現在總署有配合頒布這個類似一個行政的指導行政規則?據我了解應該不是全部的公務人員所以是指高階的嗎?特定職等以上這應該是一貫以來的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13438.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13464.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
沈副主委您今天這樣說我很支持您的看法按照我們現在來人民關係條例的規定基本上是實質等以上的文官才會受到相當程度的約束實質等以下的公教人員或者是警檢等等的他們基本上是不會受到約束的除非說有涉及到什麼國家機密等等這些問題可是你看人事行內總統他現在發布的規則是他不分職等的 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13467.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13492.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
不管是工友層級的警衛層級的或是一般的老師現在出國都要經過核准在那個實質等以下的話應該是要經過他的這個主管機關的請假之後的同意比如說剛剛您提到的像是在學校裡面對如果這個回歸到各個學校去辦理也就罷了但是現在不是是行政總處發布的命令那麼我認為說這個基本上已經違反法律保留原則了 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13493.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13515.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
因為如果說省府主委的意思是說實質等以上那才會受到約束或者是說我們剛講實質等以下他可能涉及到國家安全的業務或是可能會有涉及到機密業務的那受到管制那本行商予以贊同可是呢如果說是不分職等不分這個教師的他的這個工作的性質完全 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13516.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13534.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
都要受到這個行政命令這個辦法的高度約束的話我認為這是極不合理的所以這邊的話可能也請神父主委回去再去了解一下我可以跟委員報告一下嗎基本上實質等以下的話他只需要經過請假然後由主管機關不是由中央機關不是由陸委會開聯審會 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13536.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
13546.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
過去基本上是不需要了沒有說經過服務機會好沒關係因為這個議題我想我就反映給神父主委知道那神父主委可以先請回座那接下來我想請顧部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
13555.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
13580.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
對 副主委可以請回座沒問題我想請教顧部長今天兩個議題第一個就是說跟上個星期其實立法院有舉辦有關於女性教昭制度配套措施的這樣一個討論那麼當時因為本席擔任召委所以我來不及來提出我的問題但是我今天我想要進一步的跟部長這裡反映的說我們知道其實現在國防部已經在著手修正陸軍 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
13581.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
13607.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
陸海空軍軍事官服役條例以及志願士兵的服役條例未來準備將女性後備軍人納入後備役的管理以及教育召集制度那麼針對這個教召制度當然本席基本上是同意支持的可是呢本席在這裡要提醒的就是說為什麼當時會有為什麼會有女性的這個軍人他們會要提前退伍 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
13608.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
13630.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
的原因可能是因為結婚啊然後生育或是要照顧幼兒所以他們可能只能就提前退伍可是我們現在如果說按照國防部修法方向未來退伍12年內都有可能被教育召集的話而且整個教召時間拉成到14天這個可能會對於一些這個女性後備軍人來說可能會產生一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
13630.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
13648.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
不利的一些影响因为会影响到他的家庭照顾更何况在我们现在兵役法的第43条里面对于免除教育召集的情形是包括患病家庭重大事故学生民意代表的会期出国服刑等等这些原因 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
13649.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
13674.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
所以呢對於像是幼兒照顧產後育兒或是主要照顧者的身份基本上是沒有列入在可以排除或免除或者是延期召集的這個法定事由所以這裡華視部長應該是更重要的是說要去檢討現在的殯儀法或者是說未來有沒有可能也可以把這些事由排除在要去召召的這個範圍裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
13677.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
13693.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
跟委員報告他大概43條有兩款跟委員所講的可能也可以有關第一個是家庭發生重大事故必須本人處理這是一個狀況另外一個狀況是有那個第八款其他因特殊事由而無法應召者那這個包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
13694.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
13719.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
譬如說他分娩流產或者需要照顧重大的生病的血親那本席是提出來因為其實育兒並沒有名列在這個室友裡面需要照顧這個未成年的這個子女的部分屬於我們應該在和免的我們會考量的室友也就是範圍之內 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
13721.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
13743.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
我們希望就是未來能夠平衡化就是可以就是說真的讓這些有些後備軍人那麼如果說他們家裡面還有年幼的小孩可能12歲以下的話至少要讓他們有足夠的時間可以在家裡面照顧而不會因為月限較早一下14天這一定會影響到家庭作業就比如說如果配偶同時配偶當然不可能同時被教育特別還有未成年的子女 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
13743.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
13767.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
那如果配偶只有一邊有未成年子女的話那我們再看看這個狀況那我們會來考納這是一個法律沒有明定的情況之下希望能夠站在就是多考慮到女性後備軍人的家庭權益的問題特別是如果未滿4歲我還有第二個問題我很快再問一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
13768.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
13786.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
現在呢有關於這個提前退伍賠償的這件事情那麼根據國防部自己的統計現在110年到114年總共有6315位的官兵申請提前退伍其中有4267人依法要 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
13788.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
13791.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
應負這個賠償責任賠償的總金額是高達九億兩千多萬那麼到目前為止還有將近有五億九千多萬是還待管制也就是說是其實他要賠償提前隊伍的軍人他們要賠償 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
13804.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
13827.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
那賠償的這些金額目前有些都還沒有交完那沒有交完的最重要原因是因為我們現行的制度是竟然准許他們可以分期付款分期的去繳納這個賠償金然後高達60期這個部分其實已經造成就是食物上面這個軍隊的食物的管考的工作人員的一個負擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
13828.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
13845.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
因為他們不斷的要去盯到底誰有繳錢誰沒繳錢變成我們的相關的承辦人員有點像是一個軍隊一個討債單位不斷的要去催促哪些人可能沒有繳所以我認為說基本上這個分期繳納60期的規定應該要進行檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
13849.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
13858.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
如果說他提前退伍的軍人他本身就有財力為什麼要允許他可以分60期除非說他賠償的金額很高那麼如果說他賠償的金額並不是很高那為什麼要同意他賠償就分期繳納60期然後甚至還可以延長到70期 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
13866.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
13880.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
我本席辦公室這裡已經接到蠻多的軍中的同仁有反應這已經造成他們工作上面的負擔所以我本席希望部長這邊是不是可以去檢討這個制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
13882.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
13899.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
我們來研議這個有關這個這個基層上面在從事這樣的一個工作我們如何把它這個簡化或者是透過一些比較智慧化的一些協助讓它的基層的負擔比較簡潔 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
13901.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
13910.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
它的額度可以分期來定它的分期繳納期譬如說它如果只是要賠償20萬你也允許它60期這就造成大家負擔嘛20萬 譬如說40萬 50萬然後50萬以上或100萬以上它也許有不同的分期繳納制度但是呢 重要就是說是我們不希望變成讓軍隊基層的幹部變成是一個討債 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
13927.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
13943.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
討債人員 然後不斷地去吹 去盯到底哪個人有繳納 哪個人沒有繳納這已經造成實務上承辦單位的工作的負擔我們希望就這個部分的話 國防部能夠改善我想應該可以透過一些管理系統 將負擔減到最低吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
13947.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
13959.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
這個部分是不是可以請部長給我一份報告兩個禮拜之內給我一份報告有關於就是相關的提前退伍賠償的這個現在的案件數然後那個賠償的這個狀況然後追討的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
13962.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
13976.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
好兩個禮拜之內給我一份報告好我了解一下好謝謝翁曉琳委員現在我們請鄭振淺委員鄭振淺委員鄭振淺委員不在現在我們請林倩琴委員林倩琴委員不在接下來我們請郭宇晴委員好謝謝主席呃有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14001.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14026.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
市長國務委員好部長午安我想最近大家都在討論就是無人戰機或者是無人艇這樣子的一個議題那當然這個烏鶴戰爭跟疑義的衝突其實再次的證明就是未來的這個戰場的形態其實有一點改變了那不管是無人機無人艇或者是無人載具其實已經成為這個就是不對稱的作戰的一個戰力的核心 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14027.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14049.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
那當然我們行政院其實也提出了這樣子的一個條例但只是說要來補足就是要來補足這個7800億的不足的一個部分那當然其實這個部分很遺憾就是在6月26號我們看到這個2100億的這個行政院的版本其實已經遭到了杯葛是連副委的機會討論的機會審查的機會其實都沒有給那當然這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14054.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14072.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
國民黨民眾黨他們又提出了自己的版本那到底哪一個版本才是真正能夠符合我們國軍快速建軍的一個需求今天我想要就這一幾點來請教一下我們的部長那我想行政院我們的版本其實採購的項目非常明確那麼包含這個濱海 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14074.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14077.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
這三項是不是依照國軍建軍就是快速建軍的需求來提出那是不是已經經過了這個完整的作戰的需求的一個評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14093.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14106.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
跟委員報告就是說這是依據敵情威脅聯合作案需求的規劃那已經完成了技術調查跟產能分析那確認是可以在期限期程之內按照我們現在所講的這個迭代創新的原則來 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14107.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14126.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
持續獲得我們最新的科技然後提升那事實上跟委員報告我們並不是將所有的這些無人機的獲得都放入我們這一次的再次提出的特別條例我們其他還有一些像垂直起降的還有這個那個二型的等等那我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14127.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14144.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
這一次比較會放入特別條例的部分比較著重在於就是說我們希望可以透過那個大量長單這種迭代創新採購策略然後在國內產生一個自主能量我們作為一個最大的需求者那希望透過這個方式來清整一個比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14147.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14171.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
比較一個規模穩定的一個讓業者能夠願意去同時產線的投資然後跟各國從事技術的合作但是其實我們也注意到其他的這個在野黨他們的版本包含這個民眾黨其實他們並沒有納入所謂的這個無人艇跟水下的一個載具那就在這個六月的下旬其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14173.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14192.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
英國法國以及德國的在台協會其實他們是罕見的發表了一個聯合的聲明啊都注意到連國際其實都已經注意到就是中國在近期在台灣周邊的一個海域的一個活動那麼他在這樣子一個情況之下其實海上的這個無人載具無人艇其實也是我們要發展這個不對稱戰力非常 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14194.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14214.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
不可或缺的一環那我想如果這個法律只支持空中的無人機卻把這個所謂的海上的無人艇排除在外其實這完全沒有符合我們的國軍建軍的一個需求是嗎對這個民進黨的版本因為他沒有提出特定的這個所要採購的一個項目他只提出一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14215.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14227.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
似乎看起來說要成立一個委員會然後要提出一些綱領等等那也沒有預算提供然後然後又限於無人機等等的我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14229.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14250.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
我的看法是民眾黨版本比較沒有實質的就我們的建基作戰需求我們是比較傾向於我們現在已經符合我們作戰需求規劃的部分盡快來籌購取得第二個我想請教一下部長行政院我們的版本是用在所謂的特別預算國民黨的版本他們是改六年每年要四百億 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14251.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14278.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
那總共是2400億然後剛剛其實賴氏寶委員有特別提到說這個金額比較高啊然後有沒有more than happy但是我真的要說實話因為這個是編載所謂的年度預算但其實大家都知道這個去年我們光是今年度的這個年度的總預算從去年的8月29號送進到立法院到現在還有很多個委員會當中其實我們有很多的部會的預算是還沒有審完的是還沒有審完的 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14279.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14300.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
那也就是說它是會被延宕的如果真的就照所謂的民眾黨或者國民黨他們這個版本全部要放在所謂的年度預算當中如果這一延宕我們是不是又要在立法院當中又要每年的重新排列每年的重新的審查那如果又再次的延宕那我請教一下部長會不會採購生產膠裝連快速成軍的狀態 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14305.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14331.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
都有可能被延後那未來如果每年都要來等待這個年度預算我們要怎麼樣才能夠符合真正的國軍的需求年度預算最大難就不確定性會會升高嗎那不確定性增高的情況之下我們可能那可能就是說廠商在面對不確定的情況之下有沒有辦法能夠達到我們認為國防自主也就是說產業鏈 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
14332.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
14349.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
能夠建立然後飛鴻供應鏈能夠建立這個部分我們如果不加以扶植的話按照現在的一個產能是不足以支應我們國防的需求所以才需要有這樣子的一個那現在就是說那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
14350.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
14377.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
特別預算大家一直覺得說特別預算就有點空白授權我一直不是很理解因為特別預算特別條例通過還是要把每個建案衝進來做預算的審查也是要立法院就那個每一個案項的特別那個案項通過以後才有可能去執行沒有什麼缺少監督的問題那年度預算他現在說框400億所以我剛才問賴委員說那你放 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
14379.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
14395.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
那400億是不是進來他的意思就是說他都不會散我希望賴委員的意思是代表整個國民黨團的意見還是如何最後其實我請教一下這個部長其實我們的行政院的版本其實是聚焦在國軍採購的真正的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
14396.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
14421.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
那當然這個行政院其實早就已經有了無人載具產業發展統籌的一個計畫那其實產業政策是同步的在推動啦那我們可以看到就是不管是國民黨的版本或者民眾黨的版本他們其實都加入很多所謂的產業的扶植然後希望這個產業的發展的一個架構但是其實他們沒有特別載明所謂的我們要完整的 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
14421.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
14436.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
一個快速建軍的一個騎乘在這裡我要請教一下部長目前我們國防部最急迫的會是什麼那是不是應該先讓部隊能夠取得裝備然後接著下來我們再來建立所謂的戰力再來帶動產業還是應該要反過來 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
14440.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
14456.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
所以產業發展的這部分跟我們現在急需的採購這兩件事情並不衝突但是我們國防部的立場會希望我們儘速需要的我們依照我們作戰能力需求盡快能夠達到的這些特別是這些攻擊型的無人機、冰海潛艇型無人機還有自殺的文艇 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
14457.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
14477.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
那我們這些希望快速能夠結果因為我們現在無人機大隊也要成立我們的海軍陸戰隊等等我們這些相關兩棲的部隊進行防衛的部隊等等都需要這些那個這些艦隊型的無人機跟攻擊無人機還有無人艇所以我想這個部分在作為我們現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
14479.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
14494.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
所以各方的無人機大隊還有部隊的無人機中隊成立那我們7月1號也要成立兵海作戰指揮部那這些都希望我們有一定的無人機的數量來進行不只是我們要做一個訓練然後戰術的規劃然後來進行驗證 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
14498.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
14518.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
所以支持這個產業的發展另外還要補足國軍戰力的一個條例其實這其實沒有特別的像衝突那最後其實我請教三個問題您簡單回答是或不是就好了就是行政院版本所列的這個三項的採購的內容是不是最符合目前我們國軍快速建軍的一個需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
14518.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
14541.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
我們還是希望支持行政院版本能夠快速的能夠來儘管讓我們籌付我們所需要的作戰能力那第二個就是如果想要就是相較於所謂的逐年編列的年度預算其實特別預算是不是比較容易能夠如期的完成採購然後建立產線跟程序比較能夠願意讓廠商投入願意產生一個自主的供應鏈並且是非紅的 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
14542.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
14558.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
再來第三個就是如果把無人艇排除在外那是不是就比較沒有辦法來滿足國軍不對稱戰力的一個艦軍需求在台海的作戰上面無人艇是非常非常重要的一個不對稱戰力之一好那我想呢這個其實三個答案都非常的 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
14560.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
14586.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
我相信這個行政院的版本上個就是在上個禮拜六月二十六號其實在藍白他們的杯葛之下其實真的再度的表達不是只有我在美國華府表達的這個高度遺憾我相信其實我們的這個主席跟我們都同在現場對於這樣子的一個結果表達遺憾那接著下來其實我們就要看他們的版本要如何能夠來補足這一塊那我們也持續的希望大家一起加油好嗎好謝謝謝謝部長謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
14589.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
14595.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
謝謝,謝謝郭宇銓委員接下來請楊從英委員,楊從英委員,楊從英委員不在接下來請邱志偉委員,邱志偉委員,邱志偉委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
14597.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
14622.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
已登記委員逐步在場外均已發言完畢報告及詢答結束本日會議有黃人委員邱志偉委員提出書面質詢請列入記錄並刊登公報委員書面及口頭質詢未答覆或要求補充資料整形相關機關兩週內以書面答覆委員由指定期限者從其鎖定然後先看我們從大陸委員會外交部到國防部 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
14622.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
14645.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
到我們的海巡署所有的報告裡面其實根本都沒有附出相關的地圖圖資也就是說我們根本看完這個報告之後全部都是純文字檔你們在推特上面你們在X上面可以把哪些空海的這些青老都可以標誌出來但是在給立法院的報告裡面都是純文字的這個做法我是覺得蠻可惜的可以藉由這樣的質詢的機會讓民眾知道說離我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
14648.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
14665.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
這個海岸有多近我覺得還是有它的必要性所以未來報告的話可以考慮一下是不是把一些相關的這些地圖在不適機敏的狀況之下把它放進去然後以後報告的時候其實我們也可以考慮一下是不是就不用全文照念就是把你們覺得重要的東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
14666.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
14682.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
直接具象化的跟我們來對話那如果照念的話我們以後就是直接請大家參考書面你們也不用報告了不是嗎所以這個部分請各部會來想一下怎麼樣更有效的跟民眾跟國會議員來去對話本期會議到此結束散會 |