| IVOD_ID |
17544 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17544 |
| 日期 |
2026-06-25 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-26-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第16次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
16 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第16次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2026-06-25T08:37:02+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-06-25T12:10:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:32:58 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/bfaf9b39ac01a685185f057c3f35196fe2f01481b0ef7533ed7231b3d2e2f92a27b35dc3c0568fe65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-06-25T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第16次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查及繼續審查「性別平等工作法部分條文修正草案」等117案。(一)審查行政院函請審議「性別平等工作法部分條文修正草案」案。(二)繼續審查委員范雲等17人擬具「性別平等工作法部分條文修正草案」案。(三)繼續審查委員郭昱晴等17人擬具「性別平等工作法第十五條條文修正草案」案。(四)繼續審查委員萬美玲等35人擬具「性別平等工作法第十五條條文修正草案」案。(五)繼續審查委員黃秀芳等18人擬具「性別平等工作法第十五條條文修正草案」案。(六)繼續審查委員黃健豪等21人擬具「性別平等工作法第二十條條文修正草案」案。(七)繼續審查委員黃健豪等21人擬具「性別平等工作法第十九條之一及第二十一條條文修正草案」案。(八)繼續審查委員李彥秀等22人擬具「性別平等工作法第十五條條文修正草案」案。(九)繼續審查委員許智傑等25人擬具「性別平等工作法第二十條條文修正草案」案。(十)繼續審查委員吳宗憲等17人擬具「性別平等工作法第十五條條文修正草案」案。(十一)繼續審查委員吳宗憲等17人擬具「性別平等工作法第十九條之一及第二十一條條文修正草案」案。(十二)繼續審查委員吳宗憲等17人擬具「性別平等工作法第二十條條文修正草案」案。(十三)繼續審查委員吳宗憲等17人擬具「性別平等工作法增訂第二十條之一條文草案」案。(十四)繼續審查委員莊瑞雄等17人擬具「性別平等工作法第十五條條文修正草案」案。(十五)繼續審查委員李昆澤等24人擬具「性別平等工作法第十五條條文修正草案」案。(十六)繼續審查委員李昆澤等23人擬具「性別平等工作法第二十條條文修正草案」案。(十七)繼續審查委員林淑芬等22人擬具「性別平等工作法第二條、第十六條之一及第二十一條條文修正草案」案。(十八)繼續審查委員謝衣鳯等17人擬具「性別平等工作法第十五條條文修正草案」案。(十九)繼續審查委員馬文君等17人擬具「性別平等工作法第二十條條文修正草案」案。(二十)繼續審查委員陳俊宇等20人擬具「性別平等工作法第十九條條文修正草案」案。(二十一)繼續審查委員陳菁徽等18人擬具「性別平等工作法第十五條條文修正草案」案。(二十二)繼續審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「性別平等工作法部分條文修正草案」案。(二十三)繼續審查委員羅智強等21人擬具「性別平等工作法第十六條條文修正草案」案。(二十四)繼續審查委員洪孟楷等18人擬具「性別平等工作法部分條文修正草案」案。(二十五)繼續審查委員郭昱晴等18人擬具「性別平等工作法部分條文修正草案」案。(二十六)繼續審查委員范雲等18人擬具「性別平等工作法第二條、第十六條之一及第二十一條條文修正草案」案。(二十七)繼續審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「性別平等工作法第三條、第十六條及第十七條條文修正草案」案。(二十八)繼續審查委員萬美玲等32人擬具「性別平等工作法第二十條條文修正草案」案。(二十九)繼續審查委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「性別平等工作法第九條及第十五條條文） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:37:02 - 12:10:00 |
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1692.11 |
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好 現在繼續開會本日議程為 一 繼續審查性別平等工作法部分條文修正草案等117案二 審查及繼續審查就業保險法部分條文修正草案等90案先介紹在場委員邱輝祿委員盧憲義委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1698.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1724.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
還有王衛銘委員介紹列席官員勞動部部長 洪森漢部長陳士昌副署長 勞動力發展署勞工保險局 白立貞局長勞動基金運用局 蘇玉清局長勞動保險司 陳美女司長 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1727.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1729.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
勞動扶植退休師 黃惠琛市長市長還沒到OK 好勞動條件及就業平等是黃齊亞市長勞動法務師 傅惠芝市長權序部退輔師 高義燕副市長法規師張婉寧專門委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1756.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1784.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
全省市林戴凡專門委員國防部資源規劃師人力資源處 呂正芳處長負稅署 吳秀琳專門委員教育部人事處 姚佩芬專門委員國民及學前教育署 林淑敏副組長法務部 方蘭君參事 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1786.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1810.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
經濟部產業發展署李純孝主任秘書人事處吳靜瑜專門委員國營事業管理師林漢隆科長商業發展署孫大維科長中小級新創企業署林育齊副組長衛務部社家署簡信榮組長 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1813.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1840.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
國民健康署林雨璇組長長期照顧師白珊琪檢驗器政國家發展委員會社會發展處莊敬敏專門委員人力發展處徐曉明科長金融監督管理委員會法律事務處林嘉倩專門委員行政院主計總處公務預算處張正輝專門委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1843.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1871.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
基金預算處黃厚吉專門委員最後一位是行政院人事行政總處培訓考用處的蔡培榮專門委員那為了議事的順暢請問與會委員我們是否先進行就業保險第一輪的審查回頭再來審查性別平等工作法的第二輪審查請問大家有異議 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1873.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1891.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
好那我們就依照程序來現在進行討論事項二審查及繼續審查就業保險法部分條文修正草案等90案之主條審查那條條文先請行政單位說明接著請委員表示意見在這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1912.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1936.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
我們就審查這個就業保險法的第3條請我們行政官員先做說明市主席各位委員大家早安那第3條的部分是委員的提案那他是配合實務的運作來修正就業保險業務的監理跟申請審議的機關的名稱那定名申請審議相關的規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1939.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1959.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
又增訂了審議結果視同訴願的決定如果有不符得進行提起行政訴訟的規定那這個樣子可以簡化行政救濟的層級縮短民眾提起行政救濟的等待時間那建議依委員賴瑞龍等18人委員鄭天才等16人提案通過以上報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1959.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1974.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
好 謝謝官員說明那針對第三條目前有郭宇賢 賴世保 邱正偉 賴正榮今天在等委員的一些修正案那不知道現場委員有沒有意見要提出來討論或就教 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1994.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2007.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
如果現場沒有委員有問題 我們就建議依委員賴銳榮等18人 委員鄭天才等16人提案通過我們續審第4條 請官員說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2013.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2042.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
各位報告那第四條的部分是委員提案是配合行政院組織改造修正保險人的名稱跟地名本保險的投資應用管理業務是由勞動部勞動基金應用局來統籌辦理那建議委員賴慧龍等18人委員鄭天才等16人提案通過那請問在場委員有沒有意見OK是 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2056.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2062.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
好 那如果沒有相關意見就依委員賴日榮等18人 委員鄭天才等12人提案通過續審第5條 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2066.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2084.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
第五條是委員提案修正第一項序文刪除就業保險65歲加保年齡的上限規定那這樣子可以保障高齡者非自願離職一定期間的基本生活保障那另外將私營細則第八條之二的規定一列到本法可以明確的保障對象 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2086.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2108.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那另外就是委員提案修正第二項的第二款刪除移民勞保老年幾戶的人不得參加就業保險的部分那考量這些人失業期間已經有老年幾戶的保障又為免同時提供失業幾戶加計老年幾戶以後反高於嚴厲的薪水是影響他工作願意 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2108.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2122.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那我們建議維持第二項的規定那中上這個條文我們建議依委員林詩敏等21人委員賴岳勇等18人委員劉許廷等16人提案通過好有關第五條來 應務委員請 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2125.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2152.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
好我想這個第五條這次的修正其實蠻重要的因為我們現在已經正式完全邁向這個超高齡社會所以這一些中高齡高齡者的就業權其實非常的重要那因為在原來的舊的法令裡面是規範到65歲那這一次呢包括我提出來的版本也是直接取消這個上限就是我們鼓勵 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2153.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2164.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
這個高齡者就是繼續就業我想這個是台灣未來社會我們非常需要的那因為之前呢其實我也有修法就是這種超過65歲他其實有繼續工作權只要透過協商他可以繼續留在職場我想我們的這一個修法就是要與時俱進 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2176.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2193.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
所以我想這個就業保險法第五條今天如果大家都同意這樣的修正通過之後對於鼓勵這些高齡者持續就業健康高齡者持續就業我想是更有保障的 以上謝謝好 謝謝玉敏委員那我自己的提案裡面也把65歲這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2196.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2222.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
規定作為一個調整因應我國人口快速的老化為了要強化鼓勵高齡者的持續就業並在就業跟或在失業期間提供相關的保障所以為了要配合這個中高齡跟高齡者就業促進法第七條月經在113年的7月31日修正所以定名勞動部應該致力推動中高齡者及高齡者的延緩退休 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2223.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2248.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
在考量高齡者如果尚未領取這些相關的給付他的工作或非自願離職之間就應該有就業保險保障他的基本生活所以也會希望把第一項有管理頭髮年齡上限的限制做一些處理那不知道委員還沒有其他問題如果沒有的話就議委員林思明等21人委員賴慧榮等18人委員牛許廷等16人提案通過我們續審第6條 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2253.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2277.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
第六條是委員提案將就業保險的保險效率由現行的申報或者是申報制度改採至勞工到職的當日或僱傭當日來起算的這個部分那就業保險是一個納費互助風險分攤的社會保險那著重保險費跟給付間的權利又對等那保險費的收入是給付的主要的來源如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2278.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2296.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
沒有依規定加保的保險效率是以僱用當日或者是到職當日來生效但是沒有搭配提高划緩的金額以及增訂發給幾戶以後要命投保單位限期繳納的這樣的一個機制那可能會衍生部分投保單位或勞工平常不加 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2297.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2319.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
保費是發生事故的時候才會要求追溯保險效率請您給付那把沒有依規定加保到的風險轉嫁油按規定加保者承擔那會影響整個制度的健全跟財務的運作所以建議維持現行法以上好請問在場委員有沒有要提出來討論如果沒有的話就維持現行條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2327.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2352.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
續審第八字一條八字一條是有歡迎委員提出條文的修正案請說明那這個條文我們行政院版本是放在九字一所以這一條我們建議不予增訂現場委員有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2353.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2355.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
沒有的話就不予爭辯我們敘審九之一條 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2363.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2388.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
是九之一是這個是我們院版那這個條文是把現行的就業保險的投保薪資分級表跟勞保的投保薪資分級表來脫鉤處理那我們會訂定一個就業保險的投保薪資分級表那委員的提案都跟行政院版的內容相同所以建議依照行政院版提案通過以上請問在場委員的意見九是一條九條是一 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2399.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2427.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
沒有的話就照行政院提案通過我們續審第10條請委員說明 請官員說明是第10條的部分第10條這個是院版那修正我們第一項第4款的保險幾戶總類的名稱為配合性供房的規定為育兒留職停薪津貼那另外就是委員有提案增訂保險幾戶項目的部分那建議不予增訂 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2428.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2450.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
那理由說明,那有關於親子嫁津貼、親子教育嫁津貼、家庭照顧嫁津貼的這個部分那我們在115年5月28號送到立法院審查的這個性別平衡工作法部分修正草案已經增訂了16條旨意,那針對受僱者欲有6歲以下的子女因為生病 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2451.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2476.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
或者其他室友必須要親自照顧的話都可以請育兒假那可以因應雙親因為照顧子女去請假的需求而且育兒假也可以依照各該社會保險主管機關所定的保險年資跟子女的條件來請育兒留職停薪津貼而且併入津貼的期間來計算那委員提案都跟這個意思相符那所以我們已經把這個育兒津貼 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2477.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2493.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
已經放在了改成就是親子嫁津貼改放在育兒津貼裡面那另外針對照顧子女或家庭成員等等定義相關的這個津貼的部分那考量我們舊保是提供失業勞工一定期間的生活照顧並且促進 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2495.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2524.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
就業的一個立法目的那如果增訂了剛剛講的這些津貼會增加了就業保險財務的負擔延伸需調整費率增加勞資負擔的問題所以建議不在我們就保法增訂親子假津貼親子教育假津貼或者是家庭照顧假的津貼另外有關於照護或是照顧津貼這個部分那就業保險它是一個社會保險它目的是為了保障失業勞工無一定 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2524.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2552.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
無工作一定期間的基本生活而且要促進他就業那如果委員提案是真定因為照顧直系尊親屬或者是同住家人而有申請長期照顧假需求的人如果能夠持續到班可以檢記證明來申請家事服務替代人力津貼或者是照護替代津貼的這項規定那考量勞工他仍然持續到班就會領有薪水會跟就業保險具有所得 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2553.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2571.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
損失填補的功能原則不符那另外為了減輕家庭照顧的負荷並降低離職的風險那衛福部的長照的10年3.0都根系推動了很多的支持計畫包括普及的照顧或者是提供家庭照顧等等喘息 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2572.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2588.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
那這個部分我們建議由衛福部來持續的來研議那放在他的長期照護法裡面統一的規範比較適當那有關於照顧留職挺親今天的這個部分或者是長期照顧假的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2589.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2615.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
那我們也認為是應該由衛生福利部就現在照顧者需求以及現行的長期照顧制度各項的措施跟服務銜接等通盤來檢視那是不是要發給津貼或者是津貼的來源的部分呢也依舊整體的研議結果來再行評估那以上好謝謝這第四條那很多委員都有一線那我們請議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2617.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2621.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
好 謝謝主席我想第10條的這一個幾副內容涉及到我們將來救保法我們是不是是一個更往前進的救保法就像我們剛剛前面第5條處理的是因應高齡社會我們已經把那個65歲的這一個天花板打開了就是你可以持續加保 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2639.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2667.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
那第十条这边讲的是就业保险法它是不是应该要扩充它的保险给付的范围跟内容是不是应该要增加的问题那第一个我要回应的是昨天我们在讨论这个新公法的时候事实上第十六条之一并没有做成决议跟共识所以你刚刚说轻职假已经轻职今天已经有还未必因为委员希望到八岁那现在 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2669.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2679.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
這個勞動部的版本只有到6歲這個都還沒有形成共識所以這個當然昨天的討論其實沒有定案這一條本來就應該保留第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2680.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2699.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
应该要保留的就是照顾津贴所谓照顾不离职这个议题那刚刚司长是说这个跟旧保法有关照顾不离职你怎么样有力的支撑让在职场的劳工不会因为家属他的生病照顾 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2699.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2702.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
問題而離開職場那這個是民間團體提出很多的訴求就是希望這個救保法這邊我們可以有一些重新的思考我們來因應現在在高齡社會底下有很多家庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2716.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2742.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
這個的確有長照的需求有長輩生病他有這個壓力經濟壓力的需求所以這樣的照顧津貼的發放已經到了應該要勞動部跟衛福部重新來思考的時候我想前陣子民間團體已經開過非常多次的記者會那在這一點的訴求上面我覺得政府不能完全是沒有回應的所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2742.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2757.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
这个在国民党的版本里面呢我们是很务实的提出来了我们希望有这个增色照顾津贴那因着照顾不离子这个议题呢我们除了在第十条提出来之外 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2758.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2782.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
我们在第11条第19条之3还有第32条我们都针对了这个照顾津贴的这个请领资格要件照顾津贴的适用对象范围与限制还有怎么样这个证明文件办理程序我们国民党党团是很负责任的提出了一个完整的配套的修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2782.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2785.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
所以這件事情我認為既然我們啟動了舊保法這一次的修法要修得有意義也要回應社會的期待那國民黨團我們提出來的這些相關配套的條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2796.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2815.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
我覺得這個勞動部都跟衛福部都應該要慎重的思考所以呢這些條文從第10條第11條第19條之3還有第32條那我們都要保留就是那個衛福部不是勞動部如果不同意的話我們是通通都要保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2815.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2831.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
但是我個人認為這是一個重大的議題也是回應社會需求的議題不是說我們都有沒有啊你們現在都沒有你們現在沒有而且舊保法的精神就是照顧不離子其實是完全符合舊保法的精神我們怎麼樣讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2833.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2859.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
這個勞工朋友他可以得到支撐而且他不用因為要回去照顧家人而離開職場我覺得這件事情是應該被認真的來討論的所以我想這一點我要特別代表國民黨黨團提出來說明這個是一件很重要的事情這涉及到13萬人未來有十幾萬人可以免於就是不用因為照顧離職 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2861.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2889.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
而導致他離開職場所以我覺得我們應該要慎重的討論好謝謝議員委員來請會員請我也要呼應王永明委員因為比如說11條我們昨天的育兒假也都還沒有形成共識所以我覺得我們就是全部保留是好那有沒有其他委員有意見那我是不是先請我們衛福部 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2891.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2898.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
因為剛剛有提到一些衛護部的問題我們是不是先請衛護部 社家署的信榮組長先做長照師的三級檢驗劑 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2910.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2926.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
針對剛剛所說的兩位委員的問題先做說明是主席還有各位委員那有關於就是對於長照家庭的這個照顧支持的這個部分當然在照顧不離者這個議題之下在3.0有很多的一些計畫也都持續的在進行當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2926.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2939.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
那對於這個內容的部分當然包括昨天性供法所提到是不是要有這個長照安排下的部分我們會持續跟勞動部這邊來做相關的一些資料的一個彙整跟整理跟討論那也會併著這一塊一起來做一些處理以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2940.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2959.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
好謝謝不好意思我追問如果說這個衛福部要說你們有很多措施那我就直接問你了你的措施有因為有長家庭照顧需求的人他如果可以持續上班他可以去申請你的家事服務替代人力的津貼嗎有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2961.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2984.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
目前確實像我們所提的這個照顧的今天目前是強照的部分是還沒有就是沒有啊所以講那個跟這一個的修法是完全一點關係都沒有在衛福部的部分就是針對說如果今天這個如果你要增加勞動部就不需要在這邊修法要嗎衛福部要增加嗎我們還是會以針對所有照顧的服務的這個建立的支持為優先來去做所以你就是沒有嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2984.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3001.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
所以這個主席我要跟你講的就是請他說明也沒有用就是因為衛福部他現在長照三年完全沒有這一塊他就是沒有你持續上班然後他還有一個津貼可以讓你去一些家事服務替代人裡的津貼所以我們才需要勞動部進來一起幫忙而且勞動部這邊是就業保險因為也是勞工他有繳著保險費所以從這邊來支出是合理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3009.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3027.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
衛福部要負責的其實是其他照顧體系的問題跟這個津貼勞工持續工作發津貼一點關係都沒有這個要分得很清楚他們沒有辦法還替代勞動部的功能的啦現在也沒有做是零啦是好這個除了會持續處理以外那我們先請勞動部部長先來回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3031.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3052.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
跟委員說沒有第一個因為救保法是救保法是社會保險那他比較他跟社會福利其實不太一樣那尤其是救保法他其實一個很重要的很重要的目的比方說他在處理的大部分覺得大部分是跟這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3054.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3069.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
這個勞工本身他自己的這個就業或者是訓練或者是薪資他圍繞著他這個就業的目的那或者是他自己本身的薪資替代就是比方說當你今天如果要暫時從職場離開 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3072.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3092.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
因而没有办法有一份收入的时候那由就业保险来给你相对应的薪资的替代基本上他一个很核心的逻辑是在你自己原本的收入可是你现在没有办法在工作然后企业没有办法付你薪资的时候你还是需要一份收入来去 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3093.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3116.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
處理你的需求說那個薪資替代的部分他主要是在處理這個部分所以不管是失業的給付不管是暈流停的等等所以要跟我們說其實我們不那麼覺得他很適合拿來說我今天我家裡面可能我需要請一個看護那這個我拿就業保險的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3118.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3139.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
的錢來付我請看護的相關的薪資的服務我我我自己認為這不一定是很適合放在這就寶因為那比較可能是在一個社會福利的概念之下那如果是要做這件事情的話我我認為他可能會不會是比較是需要從衛福部這邊的社會福利相關的支出大家在這邊去思考 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3140.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3163.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
不然其實這樣這個依照這樣子的邏輯下去變成是勞工任何的生活支出或者是各種相關的支出他都會可以從就業保險這邊來做去做勤領的時候甚至這個教育津貼各種的時候其實他有點去影響了他原本跟就業或者是薪資替代 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3163.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3176.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
有关的这样子的概念然后所以当然我知道这条我们应该就是保留所以我是认为可能就像刚刚王远说的刚下面有几条势必是要保留了那我就那就绝保留对 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3181.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3186.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
好那再過來請邱惠如我們台灣民眾黨就是因為昨天我們討論的很熱熱烈烈的16條之一有親子假16條之二有親子教育假還有20條有家庭照顧假我想這些假當然相對應要給予誘因今天才會有誘因那當然我們就把這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3203.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3225.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
駕的津貼的法源放在這個救保法這樣子那當然在第10條就會提到說保險給付的項目就有這些親職駕親職教育駕還有家庭教育駕那我想因為昨天這幾條也還沒有共識所以當然可能就如同敬明跟那個金輝的還有部長所言可能就是我們對第10條也是主張保留這樣子以上說明謝謝謝謝金輝員需要再次發言嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3231.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3259.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
剛剛看了沒有好謝謝其實剛剛部長有提到如果根據就業保險法的第一條是說是為了要提升這個勞工就業技術促進就業保障勞工執訓訓練及失業一定期間的基本生活來制定本法所以其實它基本上是有不同的功能因為大家對於這個第四條目前希望能夠持續再討論所以我們先保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3260.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3275.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
還是OK來市長先說明市主席各位大家好那我們就是有關於財務的這個部分我們依照王委員的提案就是說家事服務替代人力津貼或帳戶替代津貼的這個部分如果有舊把來支付的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3276.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3304.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
那我們用今年115年3月的家事移工參加實災的人數大概23萬人來當基礎那雇主他是一個救保的備保險每月要補助一萬塊錢這樣一估一年就會增加財務支出是544億這個數字不是現行就業保險可以支付的那國家在處理這個照顧津貼的照顧的這一件事情上有關的財源可能有不同的一個想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3305.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3333.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
那是不是由舊保來支出的這個部分因為會大幅增加這個財務我覺得這個有關增訂津貼的幾副項目的這個部分應該要取得勞資的共識以後我們再來演繹那以上謝謝如果沒有新的其他委員想要發言的話我們第四條先保留續審第十一條請官員說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3344.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3359.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
這樣不討論是不是我瞭解我是說需不需要先有一些討論還是就先保留我們再做第二輪是勞動部有需要先說明讓大家也先瞭解一下嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3366.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3388.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
跟主席跟委員報告那11條的部分是我們的保險給付的請領的條件那除了剛剛講的增列的請領的保險給付種類之外其實還有其他的東西那包括說事業給付的等待期縮短為7天的部分那我們覺得是委員提案我們都競表支持那當然還有一個育嬰六指挺心名稱改為 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3389.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3403.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
育兒留職挺薪 以及他的條件我們參照性供法的規定把職年連年延長到六歲以下到七歲為止 這個部分我們都希望能夠依照我們院版的 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3404.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3429.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
來通過喔那還有就是運營留職停薪今天現在的年資條件縮短為就是他現在是一年喔那我也有提案縮短為六個月的這個部分喔那我們覺得這個可以增進出入職場勞工的一個權益保障喔那這個部分我們也都是同意的喔那以上說明好那10條先行保留我們續審第12條請官員說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3433.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3456.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
是第12條的部分是委員提高第3項第12條第3項鎖定的就業促進津貼的提撥比例那委員有提高到提案有提高到20%有限型的10%提高到20或25的這個部分那我們建議考量整體的就保的資源配置我們建議是提高到20% |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3458.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3483.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
那另外就是業委員提案徵訂專款用於辦理人工智慧就業技能的職業訓練等等措施的這個部分那有建議這個AI快速的發展那本部已經積極調整執訓的措施跟推動的做法並且編列預算來協助勞工提升AI的相關的智能那目前這個部分我們都已經在做了 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3483.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3507.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
那希望能夠維持現行的規定讓我們能夠比較有彈性那再來就是有關於徵訂專款用於延民地區在地的就業促進方案跟傳統記憶轉型的培訓的這個部分那現行的條文所定的經費用途都已經含括提撥經費辦理失業備保險相關資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3510.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3533.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
或者是就業創業的協助喔 那具有原名身份的被保險也都會適用喔那如果修法設定提供一定的比例專款喔那我們覺得會影響了因應不同就業情勢各項措施經費的調度的一個彈性喔那我們建議不予申訂喔 那以上好 謝謝說明 那縣議委員請 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3534.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3560.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
好 謝謝因為我們常常看到現行的就業促進經費多用一般性的課程要考量原住民地區的部落產業特殊性 民定專管專用因為光靠原住民委員會的經費我覺得真的是不夠所以因為這邊已經有一定的比例就是保險費的10%現在要提高到20%歷年經費的執行剩餘額度的範圍內提撥我覺得如果有一定比例給原住民地區我覺得真的可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3561.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3575.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
促进我们就业的方案及原住民传统技能的转型培训我觉得这个是增加原住民的竞争力的一个方法所以我觉得希望网络部这边能够考量谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3579.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3593.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
謝謝盧委員的這個指教事實上我們對於在這個原住民朋友的一個職業訓練跟就業服務的相關的工作其實一直不遺餘力而且是跟原民會 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3594.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3617.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
一直在做跨部會的協調來一起統合來做這樣一個工作所以相關的措施跟它的經費的支用基本上我們就是適原住民朋友的需求來積極推動辦理另外我們為了加強我們的救福據點它對於原住民朋友的文化主體性的認同跟理解所以我們在原住民地區的救福據點我們除了優先禁用 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3617.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3646.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
具有原住民身份的救福員之外我們還對於相關人員做持續的這個教育訓練來讓他們更加的尊重跟理解原住民朋友的一個文化的特質以及他的一個需求那所以我們這邊的指教都在我們既有的一個行政的一個軌道上在運作當中是不是可以允許我們用這個附帶決議的部分來讓我們的各個執行單位都能夠清楚的理解要用救保基金來積極辦理原住民被保險人相關的職業訓練跟就業服務的相關的工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3646.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3659.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
然後來督導我們的一個相關的一個所屬能夠來持續來積極推動 不曉得可不可以接受好 那我們先請洪部長再先說明那個其實第一個謝謝盧委員 因為盧委員其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3661.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3679.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
很多次在委員會的質詢裡面都針對原住民的就業的問題包括訓練包括就業媒合希望勞動部這邊多做其實我們最近其實我也請發案所的同仁在這方面其實應該來做一些檢討那尤其這個檢討怎麼把這工作能夠做得更到位 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3680.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3705.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
那但是因為我是想說有沒有可能跟委員討論我們可以用比方說附帶決議的方式甚至這個附帶決議的寫法那來跟委員這邊做一些討論那這個寫法上面怎麼把原住民的就這個就業能夠做得更到位更符合現在原住民當下就業的情境產業的各種情境的現實 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3706.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3720.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
是希望能夠跟委員這邊來做討論這樣但是這裡面可能就不一定是針對特定的身份別這樣子那這個部分是這樣那第二個是針對因為現在也有一些委員提到這裡面提到AI |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3721.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3738.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
那事實上在這個AI的部分我們其實現在也正在整體性的檢討在AI的這個賦能的在職訓練等等等的部分那可是這個在職訓練其實可能AI的在職訓練是其中的就是在職訓練或職業訓練其中的一部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3742.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3758.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
那這部分絕對會是接下來勞動部跟發言署推動工作的重點那我們是建議說是不是可以不用在這個條文裡面直接把AI不然如果這個AI要寫的話可能也會其他的部分也都會要寫進來就是說你說 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3761.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3780.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
台湾现在也许像水电也很缺啊那是不是变成水电也要写进来那各种大大小小的训练的都会必须要写进来才能表达重视那我们的想法是说只要是现在对于劳工的技能有关的赋能有关的部分我们都希望能够把进来 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3782.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3804.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
那所以是希望說可以給我們一點空間那如果今天大家特別重視AI的話我們也覺得這是好可是我們用附帶決議的方式來跟委員討論這個部分的文字我們可以怎麼落可以把這工作做得更到位不然確實未來接下來可能各種大大小小的類型的訓練都會要寫進來那就會比較比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3809.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3831.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
難以顧及或者是難以掛一樓五萬這樣子好謝謝部長說明來謝謝部長也謝謝部長勞動部這邊由先行到辦公室來跟本席溝通那我覺得這個附帶決定部分是可以接受那我還是會持續的關注民族民視事業的部分的一些資訊或者是以後的相關的課程謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3832.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3848.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
好那第12條就請勞動部提出附帶決議文字那本條就依委員林思明等21人委員蕾若榮等18人委員鄭天才等16人提案通過我們續審第13條 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3851.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3871.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
那第13條是我們范雲委員對於我們的這個申請失業給付的民眾在對於公立就業服務機構所推介的工作如果有推介這個工作是跟申請人原任的技術及專長不符的話希望也能夠有一個不接受的一個空間而得以繼續來申請失業給付 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3873.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3897.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
那我們對於這樣子的一個條文的建議是傾向是不是可以維持原條文主要的考量是因為這樣子一個想法其實是非常好但是我們從就業保險法這邊積極促進就業意志來說以現在的產業結構的變遷的快速這些工作的技能它的一個疊替跟調整其實是非常快速的所以如果因為申請人的原任技術跟專長 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3898.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3921.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
不符而讓他就可以拒絕的話反而會造成這些失業的被保險未來轉換跨域去其他就職機會的一個彈性會減少也會導致他有可能造成持續性的這種結構性的失業所以我們建議這個部分要納進來必須審慎所以我們建議維持原條文好那對第13條比較現場委員有沒有意見要再提出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3924.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3945.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
如果沒有的話我們就第13條維持現行條文我們續審第16條請問官員說明是跟主席各位報告第16條是我們就業保險的核心的條文那第16條是規定我們失業幾戶是依照我們被保險平均薪資的60% |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3947.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3965.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
來發給最長發給6個月那但是如果他已經連滿45歲的中高齡或者是零有身障證明的人最長發給9個月那再來就是如果有大量失業的一個狀況那符合我們的規定的話最長全面最長到9個月那最長不得超過12個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3966.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3974.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
那委員提案大概包括兩個部分第一個是針對原住民身份者他的失業給付最常要發給到全面到9個月的這個部分那剛剛已經說過我們是針對45歲以上跟身障者 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3982.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3997.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
來發給到9個月主要是考量他他的在就院比較困難失業週期比較長那就有原住民身份的這些人的失業期間是不是比較長要不要做不同的處理我們看可能要看我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3998.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4003.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
原名他的實際就業的狀況來擬定避免因為給付的延長影響他的再就業的一個意願所以我們建議不以爭定這個部分那有關前面要延長失業幾乎到9個月或者是到12個月的這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4015.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4030.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
那主要是就保險他的立法目的是在促進就業協助受雇的老公在遭遇到非自願離職的時候他儘速來重還職場所以事業給予他的幾乎標準跟幾乎的期間必須要來兼顧求職意願避免勞工 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4031.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4060.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
消極的勤勞的給付那我們來參考其他國家的經驗那這些失業給付的期間都會可能是依照年齡或者是年資的長短做不同的一個處理那現在剛跟大家報告我們已經針對中高齡或者身障者來延長到九個月所以我們怕全面的延長了以後可能會延伸給付依賴影響勞工就業的意願那進而衝擊到整個勞動市場的供需所以這個部分我們建議維持現行法 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4062.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4085.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
那另外還有一個部分因為委員又提到說職災這個非自願離職的這個部分不好意思這是第17條職災是等一下好那剛剛看到菅委員有舉手來菅委員請不是是因為盧新委員他現在去質詢所以他請我先幫他保留第16條 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4087.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4112.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
OK 好那會務委員請謝謝主席好那關於第16條我們台灣民眾黨有提出修正的一個內容那我們對於那個失業給付的這個津貼我們是提議從目前的這個給予6個月延長為9個月那但書的情形一樣也是 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4114.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4134.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
做了三個月的延長就是申請人離職的時候他辦理退保已經年滿45歲或領有這個社政主管機關核發的身障證明的話原本現行法是9個月然後我們也把它延長為12個月就是對於原現行的這個月數都各在延長9個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4135.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4157.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
那對不起 延長為三個月那關於第二項就是關於遇到一些如果經濟不景氣然後導致大量失業或者是有緊急情勢的時候那我們這時候給付也從現行法的九月提升到十二個月因為我想說希望透過這些津貼的延長然後足夠的津貼能夠幫助這些失業者度過人生的難關以上說明 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4160.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4179.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
請部長說明有兩個點想要再說明第一個事情是因為就業保險其實最重要最重要的目的其實是要促進就業或者是協助失業者重返職場 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4181.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4205.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
所以其实就就保险的概念来说包括我们也跟很多的学者就并不是让他的给付领越长越好其实并不是让他给付领越长越好因为有的时候他给付领越长的时候反而会降低他回来就业的意愿这其实从这个就保险法一开始在立法的时候的宗旨跟目的这个目的其实非常清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4206.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4223.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
所以這個把給付的時間拉長不一定是一件對失業者來說是一件好的事情但就像剛才講到可能有些特定的弱勢或者是什麼我們會考慮到他其實尋職的狀況可能跟一般的勞工會不太一樣所以可能要比他讓他比較延長 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4224.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4248.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
可是并不是整体都延长这是一件好的事尤其大家可以想像现在我们的就业市场的状况那第二点是说其实我知道当然我们都会希望从这个给付给付越多越好可是这里面也要想到费率的问题因为这是社会保险这是社会保险我还是想要说明说这是社会保险他不是社会福利然后 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4249.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4272.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
所以当他的给付的项目或者是给付的乘数要再做增加的时候那就会遇到那是不是这个费率要调整的问题所以在这几个形象上我们当然还是比较是希望维持原本的目前的条文以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4274.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4276.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
謝謝部長的回應與說明那我們16條先行保留我們續審第17條請官員說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4283.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4307.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
第17條是委員的提案那委員是配合最低工資法跟勞工職業災害保險及保護法的施行修正援引的法律名稱跟把我救保法的施行細則第18條之一把它一列到這個本法的規定那我們建議依照委員賴瑞龍等18人委員鄭天才等16人的提案通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4309.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4321.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
好那第17條不知道委員現場有沒有意見要再提出來如果沒有的話就依委員賴瑞榮等18人委員鄭天才等16人提案通過我們續審第18條 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4328.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4354.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
第18條的這個部分那委員盧先生委員是提案有關於符合就業保險符合失業給付勤領條件的人他在失業給付期限屆滿前他又再受雇工作那依規定要參加被保險人參加就業保險被保險滿三個月以上的話可以跟保險申請就業講出津貼的這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4355.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4382.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
那委員提案說延明的部分是不是只要參加本保險滿一個月也可以申請的這個部分那這個部分是我們考量提早就會講出津貼的目的是要鼓勵勞工在就業那穩定工作並給津貼的講注那委員提案把年資的門檻從三個月修正為一個月的這個部分我們擔心會延伸短暫就業來引起津貼的道德風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4383.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4394.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
那不利他穩定就業而且相較其他弱勢的勞工也會要求來比照原意所以這個條文我們是建議維持的現行法來 菅委員這邊我也先幫盧縣委員保留等一下他會回來說明他的提案好 了解我們18條就先保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4411.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4436.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
那我們再去審19-2來請管理人說明是19條是 之二是我們有院版喔那我們是配合第10條修正育嬰留職停薪今天修正為育兒留職停薪今天以及增訂了19條之三的規定喔修正這個名稱喔那也在第三項定名1加4 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4437.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4455.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
事件法跟兒童及少年福利跟權益保障法相關的規定跟收養的兒童先行共同生活的被保險人那也可以依照我們待會會討論到的修正條文第十九條之三第一項跟第二項的規定雙性都領滿六個月他也可以再多領三個月等等的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4458.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4472.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
這個部分我們都競表支持那委員有提案是增訂雙清零滿六個月再加發一個月把它放在這個部分的這個部分那我們都建議就一列到第十九條之三來規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4474.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4492.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
那另外就是右委員提案到配合第11條剛剛講的請你給付的條件這個部分那有關照顧孫子你可以請你運營流停薪津貼來修正一些相關的規定我們也建議都不予修正那以上說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4499.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4505.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
我們不只對象的問題我們還有那個喻音留庭的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4518.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4535.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
勤領的金額本來是60%我們想要提升到90%然後6個月的勤領月數提升到9個月然後把就是跟大家所說的把育嬰改成育兒但我們主要是金額的提升然後長度的延長這樣子以上說明謝謝好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4537.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4556.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
來部長是不是先回應在這條因為當然這條是保留可是有幾個部分我們還是想做點說明我們還是要強調一下說因為其實救保其實它最主要的就是它在一開始定義的它是以這個就業保險促進就業跟處理失業的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4558.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4580.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
所以这是为什么我们一直希望是说在给付方面,运营留停的部分不要去超过事业给付的部分那如果要这次现在是运流停的那两层的部分就是6加22的那两层的部分现在是政府都是持续用公务预算来做编列 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4581.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4608.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
但是在给付的部分还是维持运流亭跟事业给付都是六成都是六成的状况那如果大家是希望是说也许对有些劳工那他的这个薪资的替代会希望能够再提高所以这一次为什么我们在前面之前的条文其实已经有有应该是第九条九之一就把这个托宝薪资的上限再把他跟劳保给脱钩 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4609.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4628.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
那让其实一些可能四万块四万多块以上是原本四万五千块以上的劳工派了薪资替代可以比较出来所以因为这一条里面当然我说还是保留可是还是想跟大家说明一下是说其实还是我们还基本上还是希望运流亭的给付就是社会保险的给付的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4629.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4641.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
給付的部分應該要對其失業保險目前是一個六成的狀況謝謝主席我這邊的問題要請教部長就是說那個六個月的平均月頭薪資現在是80%計算但是事實上 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4646.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4674.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
對你原來的你這邊不修法你還是寫六成然後你兩成其實是從公務預算但是現在委員的版本包括我個人的版本我們是直接就明文規定了就在這邊寫80%那你們為什麼不要直接就是從救保這邊就穩定下來這邊直接就講八成而且從救保支出但你說你們兩成你們現在是六成救保兩成是公務預算但是公務預算的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4675.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4692.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
我不知道今天主計在不在這一種不入法然後說我公務預算一定會貼兩成那會不會在主計單位當我們稅收不好的時候受影響的時候這兩成因為你沒有法源依據也不是會不會的問題就是說這兩成因為你沒有任何一個把 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4692.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4713.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
明定說我就是到八成那如果我們今天的修法是直接在舊保裡面就寫清楚了就是八成我覺得這樣子是對於它的穩定性比較高而且也有清楚的法源依據那你公務預算公務預算大家都知道就是每一年它的編列主計它會根據它的財政收支狀況它其實是會浮動那這邊是保險反而是比較穩定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4718.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4744.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
所以我個人是比較傾向主張是應該是直接修舊保法就是直接明定是80%從保險裡面支付是最穩定的那公務預算如果多的你勞動部有其他的你再從公務預算那邊支出我覺得這樣子的方式應該是會對我們的所有的家長跟勞工朋友是最有保障的因為任何事情你入法這是法明定 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4745.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4773.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
而且從保險裡面直接支出這個就是保險金直接支出我覺得這個是一個最穩定的做法那至於要不要加長那個可以再計但我比較堅持的是我認為你所有給這些如果我們建立是一套穩定的長久的機制那應該就是要入法明文寫清楚這是我的意見而且我也有提出修法版本直接改成是平均月頭保薪資的80%計算 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4776.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4802.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
那個我們普及總署張振輝專委可以來說明回應一下我想回應一下委員剛剛的說明就是說這個雖然沒有入法那公共預算撥補兩成這一塊呢其實在我們編制的預算編制的實務上呢通常這一塊呢我們還是會把它當作這個依法例U這一塊就是呢都還是會沒有我們還是因為就是他還是就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4803.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4813.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
雖然他沒有入法可是我們還是會覺得他的性質是比較傾向於說依法要編的所以我們通常會還是會在每年編率算的時候原則都會盡量讓他編組這一塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4816.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4843.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
不是我要請教主計就是說我們的法現在舊保法寫的是六成那請問你那兩成的一定要主計處要編列預算你的依據是什麼你的法源依據就是主計處不會去變動的依據是什麼是行政院院長的一句話還是總統的一句話還是是部長的一句話就是你總要有一個依據吧那我剛剛的意思是說如果我們在舊保法裡面明文規定了 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4845.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4874.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
你的依據就很明確啊因為我可以告訴各位台灣政黨輪替是正常普遍的現象那這一任政府做的我不知道以後政黨輪替會不會繼續是這樣的主張他可能又換了一個主張 換了一個做法所以你這個你的安定性你應該就是要透過入法如果這個是大家的共識現在的政府也覺得 主席也覺得這是沒有問題那沒有問題就寫清楚啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4875.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4879.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
對不對有困難嗎這邊改八成有什麼困難我個人不認為有困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4881.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4904.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
那個美女市長先來回應一下跟主席跟委員報告有關這個部分育嬰流子停運津貼從60提到80以及20入法明定的這個部分育嬰流子停運津貼其實跟失業勞工不一樣失業勞工他已經離開職場那是我們就業保險是主要的幫助的對象 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4906.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4933.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
那育嬰留職挺薪他其實是勞動關係還在他只是暫時的中止中間的中止那當時候他其實跟失業勞工不一樣但是可以讓他來領的這個關鍵點主要是因為他跟失業勞工一樣有一定期間他沒有提供勞務沒有獲取報酬這樣的一個狀況所以我們讓他可以比照失業的給付來領六成的津貼那期限也到六個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4933.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4962.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
希望能夠他不是一直在育嬰而是趕快回到職場這是我就業保險的一個目的你覺得不可以在這邊寫成八成比他多第一個是這樣然後再來就是我們覺得育嬰留職停薪的這個被保險確實需要強化他的經濟支持所以在110年的時候在行政院認為說在不影響就業保險的制度底下我們在各社會保險的主管機關都各訂定了一個補助要點 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4963.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4992.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
來作為發放的預據所以我現在是有補助要點來做發放的預據的不是沒有這個是不影響在我的就業保險的這個制度的裡面我們希望強化我們的被保險的薪資保障因為我們剛剛也有我懂你的邏輯就是你要寫在就保裡面的你一定是跟失業的對齊失業如果是六個月你這邊就不可能超過六個月你完全是這樣一個概念但你現在實質的政策你事實上是到八個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4994.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5015.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
對對因為我們要落實國家跟你一起養的這個政策所以有國家也編列預算來所以那個是補充的補充進來的所以你們就是不可以放在這裡就對我們希望不要放在這裡對因為這個是跟就業保險其實是另外一個財源也跟我其實是沒有關係的那如果讓他穩定性下來是不是可以你的要點的來源是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5017.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5030.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
你的要點更上位的法律依據是什麼因為它是給付行政所以我們是可以訂要點譬如說育兒津貼我們訂要點那你也一樣可以取消要點就這樣我們是不是可以提個附帶決議要求勞動部持續 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5034.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5057.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
我要的是一個穩定性那我們本來認為直接就保法直接修訂這個就是一個最穩定性的做法那你們現在是堅持說因為失業那邊沒有動不可能這邊領的比失業還多你就是以那個為最低的體現但是因為很多委員也提失業要增加如果那邊增加就這邊可以動失業真的是因為民眾黨那是九個月六個月變九個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5060.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5076.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
不能影響到失業勞工他要重返職場的意願好那至少我們要有一個現在有一個你們現在你的這個附帶決議嘛對不對這個一定要進去但是這一條還是先保留這個我可以先保留是好來那個危險委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5077.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5105.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
是對那個剛剛我就是想要講這個因為我有查到你們有這個在民國110年的6月4號的訂定還有發布日期也是6月4號就是育嬰留職停薪的薪資補助要點對不對你剛剛提的是這個嗎好就是說有20%但是我還是不太了解你為什麼就是我可不可以你可不可以再解釋一下為什麼你不想要把這個入法你說要這個對齊的根本的理由是什麼那另外一個就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5107.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5123.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
對 那另外一個就是說因為本席也是提就是說是不是延長到育嬰留庭這個延長到8個月那這個是不是也可以入法還是你覺得不可以入法的原因是不是可以在前提再敘述一次跟主席跟委員報告剛剛跟大家報告說 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5124.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5140.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
育嬰留職停薪今天他跟事業勞工是不一樣的他沒有離開職場這個本來不是我就業保險法應該要保障的對象不過在98年的時候我們建議育嬰留職停薪的人確實沒有裁員所以我們把他勞工的部分我們放到救保法來處理他 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5141.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5170.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
不過這個主要是因為他跟失業勞工一樣他有一段的期間是沒有提供勞務沒有獲取報酬的狀況跟失業勞工是一樣的所以我們參照就業保險的條件包括條件包括標準期間我們都參照這個標準來處理的所以一旦如果他現在為了強化他的經濟保障我們從110年的時候我們訂立了個要點另外再加給20%所以現在他已經到了80%了如果再加上去 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5171.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5199.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
他可能有的提高到百分之八十或者是九十的部分他就會變成百分之百這個在社會保險上其實沒有說可以給他百分之百的一般社會保險都是所得的替代沒有到百分之百我們希望他趕快回到職場這個是我就業保險的目的所以在不影響到原來失業因為你你提高到八十失業幾戶就會要求那失業幾戶現在他六成了但是他對沒有沒有工作的父母配偶跟未成年子女 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5199.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5227.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
他可以提高百分之二十十到二十所以他最高可以提高到二十所以原來的六十再加上百分之二十其實大概目前有七成的人他已經領到八成了那領到八成的人如果你再加上去他就會領到再值的就是跟薪水一樣那這對他償還職場是非常不利的所以我們不希望對事業勞工是這樣的一個影響以及未來會影響到整個勞動市場的供需所以我們希望維持有關事業給付的標準跟期限 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5227.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5250.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
但是對於強化育嬰留職停薪的這樣的一個被保險人我們希望強化他的經濟支持包括20%的部分我們也會持續的編列那以第九條之一我們讓投保薪資跟勞保脫鉤未來我們會提高他的上限這樣子可以保障我們這些這些父母他在經濟上的一個支持那以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5251.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5268.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
好 謝謝市長對 那我想我們剛剛 對不起我是不是先請那個離婚省委員先發言好 謝謝主席 我想請問一下這個我們有關這個幾戶行政的這個性質的這些補貼是不是都是用要點來做處理有的有 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5272.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5283.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
不過對於剛剛講的這個部分是基於事實上的需要或者是我們覺得在這個情況我們用幾戶行政的方式也比較有彈性那我們這個要點實行多久了 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5284.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5284.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
從110年的711號到現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5314.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5316.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
如果能夠用負債決業方式來處理就用負債決業方式來做處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5322.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5345.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
主席我們現在還在討論19-2不過因為我看真的是太多委員有提案那大家其實都是以鼓勵聲譽的方向在做這樣子的考量那剛劉永雪庭委員打電話過來他說他希望保留謝謝好那19-2就先行保留不過也請勞動部這邊提附帶決議的文字 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5352.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5375.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
我們去審19條之3的行政院版還有相關的一些委員版的宣案19條之3就是我們在原來的育嬰留庭今天的六個月的期限之外我們希望能夠促進家庭性別分工的平等並且兼顧 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5376.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5394.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
就業保險的一個橫頻跟勞工重返職場的可能性等等的面向做有條件的延長願意留職提前的一個期間那就是雙親都領滿六個月的時候他各雙親都可以各再領三個月一共是九個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5395.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5415.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
那這種狀況呢在我們的第一項我們給他定明清楚說除了我們雙方都是我們就業保險的被保險人之外他一方可能是軍公教的人也可以這種狀況也可以那另外一種非常特殊的一個狀況就是服役同一子女的雙親其中有一個人死亡那這種情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5416.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5433.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
他沒有辦法共同服役的時候那這個時候這個人我們也同意讓他由六個月允長為九個月那這個是我們在第一項的一個處理那在第二項的部分就是說如果法案生效的時候他剛好在領第七個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5434.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5448.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
過去就現行只有領六個月嘛第七個月是不給的但是如果剛好法律修正的時候他剛好在領第七個月的時候我們從法律生效開始第七個月的以後的期間我們就按比例發給但是當然沒有領滿的人沒有假設 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5450.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5471.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
他符合雙清都領滿六個月再給三個月的部分都可以再來申請再給然後最後一項是我們看到可能育兒留職停薪今天我們有因此因為19條之三可能會增加我們給付的支出那也有可能會依照我們第九條第二項的規定來調整我們保險費率的情形那這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5476.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5502.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
我想要做點說明其實我們都很關心因爲留職期間的問題按照現在目前看到的一些國際的各個各國因爲最近其實都有一些相關的立法的狀況其實都非常非常在意一件事情是怎麼樣促成雙親之間的平衡就是都在鼓勵爸爸爸爸參與 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5504.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5523.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
所以其实过去有过几轮讨论但是其实比方说像一些民间团体民间团体他尤其是几个妇女团体他其实不太赞成只是单纯的把孕流值的期间直接拉长因为他可能造成的效果是反而变成是更大的 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5524.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5548.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
照顾的压力是在妈妈身上就说双亲因为现在的确在请婴留庭的性别比例上面就是爸爸跟妈妈之间的比例上面就是妈妈比较多确实是这样所以当如果把这个时间直接拉长的时候最有可能的反而是妈妈必须要照顾的时间就更长他的负担的压力更重好 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5549.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5575.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
所以这一次我们的修法是参考了现在几个国家他们的做法都是要尽力的鼓励爸爸出来参与所以我们才定了一个是如果双亲都请满6个月的话可以再多一些清零的期间但是最重要的前提是双亲要请满6个月以这个前提来鼓励延长 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5576.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5601.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
那所以我们有看到委员有一些委员把想把这个时间给延长可是这样子直接延长的效果可能最后的效果会是更多的妈妈他在这里的负担更多他请更长他离开职场时间更长那我也想跟委员讲一个数字其实就我们看到的数字来说请越长的时间返回职场的几率越低 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5603.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5617.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
这是在我们的这这么多年来统计数字很清楚请越长返回资产的数月低好大概请六个月的话可能会会是一做一半做一半 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5619.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5648.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
对所以并不是把这个期间尽量的延长就是一件对就业者来说对劳工来说就是一件好的事情那我们这次的确是有延长可是他是一个有前提性的是希望以鼓励爸爸来参加为前提的延长那这个做法其实也是符合目前国际上面几个国家最近在谈运营运营会有留停的政策的时候都是希望设一个条件让爸爸做到的时候我再给你一点 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5650.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5654.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
大概是在這個概念所以我們才做這樣子概念的整體的設計這樣以上謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5660.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5685.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
好首先我當然是覺得部長講的這個國際趨勢是正確的因為我們也有去採訪了很多尤其是像北歐這樣子的國家他爸爸跟媽媽雙親請的育嬰的天數的比例是很接近然後這個人次也是很接近的這樣子的國家那他們給我們的反饋就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5686.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5713.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
爸爸通常会比较容易请在小朋友比较稳定的时期就是可能六个月九个月然后一岁他比较没有这么多的那个哺乳像小的时候那样子的时候会有比较多爸爸请所以我觉得鼓励爸爸是正确的但是我看了一下劳动部自己的统计数据你是2021年的两成就是男性的比例但是女生一直在五成 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5713.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5733.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
或六成2025年是27.8%然后第一季有到32他的成长是很小的那你认为你这个从2021年到2025年这么小的成长你是有哪一个地方需要检讨那再来 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5733.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5759.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
如果你认为6加3这个版本对于双亲都有请参与率会变高你认为的原因在哪里这个我是想请您回答的因为根据就是一些调查或者是民团的反应当然你们刚有说你们会希望再去修可是你想象因为我们现在本来性别的薪资就有一个差异 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5760.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5781.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
所以这个双清里面其中一方不管月薪是五万六万八万计算这个津贴的时候还是只能用45800去算那这样子当然对于所以你说什么请六个月他有可能不太会再重返职场对于这群人你希望他参与双清都可以去预额 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5783.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5806.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
他怎么可能不会回来职场对他来说他的落差太大他的请假成本太高了所以我想知道你具体因为你从2021的两成到2025的27%其实这个成长率还是非常少的那你到底要怎么检讨这并不是说6加3就可以解决双清参与度变高的问题 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5808.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5833.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
我先讓部長先回應,等一下請王振旭委員發言其實在希望爸爸多請的這件事情應該說希望爸爸多分擔這件事情上面我們其實會這也當然是跟民間團體討論的幾個做法我跟委員報告第一個做法就是我們其實現在從過去剛剛委員講到的是原本過去運營留庭是一次只能請六個月後來變一個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5835.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5860.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
这个从六个月变一个月的这件事情其实爸爸有提升了一点但是比方说从今年开始从今年1月1号开始我们让运流亭其实有30天可以以日来请就是去年我们其实发布政策今天1月1号开始从可以以日来请的部分来看的话再到5月的数字目前5月数字 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5861.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5879.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
爸爸请的比例跟妈妈请的比例是1比1了是1比1了所以让育婴留庭过去是快壮的可以变成有部分可以变成是以日来请更加弹性的情况非常明显的看出 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5880.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5903.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
爸爸请的比例是大幅的提高的这是数字上是很清楚的从从一月的时候大概是40出头到五月的时候几乎几乎是已经一半一半甚至爸爸还有还有中间一个月是超过的五月的时候爸爸请的数字是超过妈妈的好所以我们会有几个做法是希望来去处理这件事情第一件事情是让请领的 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5904.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5927.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
时间更加弹性以日来请所以这个其实就对应我们现在在规划的育儿假其实是这个事情第二个做法就是我们把投保薪资上限从原本的45800现在跟老保脱钩未来会提高把这个薪资投保上限提高其实也会有助于爸爸来多请这也是你说哪个事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5929.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5935.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
我们预估会这个目前预估的投保新上线预估会提高到至少5万好 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5942.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5970.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
我跟其实应该是八成他会拿到八成就6加26加2至少4万好那第三个做法就会是我们用这个两双亲都请满六个月的方式可以再加所以并不是只是一个做法所以我们在这三个的做法的设计上面都是希望爸爸要来多请跟多分担所以并不是只压在一个做法上面而已但我们相信在这三个做法下 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5971.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5992.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
爸爸来请领的比例一定会提高很多一定会提高很多就是请就育儿家包括育儿家其实也是跟月那个一样育儿家有津贴 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5997.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6023.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
我要跟委員說的是說從流停其實育兒假的概念是從流停分出來的他是把育兒流停做成比較單日的切分出來讓大家更靈活的事我想這是陳先生或幾位委員大家過去大家共同在倡議的事情那現在把它做成制度一樣是倚天不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6030.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6043.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
對啊但是都在津貼這個裡面你現在把他混為一談了育兒假你這60天你可以就是一天一天請對不對我問你你的育嬰留子津貼你可以按天生嗎可以啊現在都可以一天一天請累積了嗎未來吼津貼就是開始啊30天以上育兒假就是一天一天的可以啊都可以給錢不是我說你的津貼你現在津貼也已經放寬到這半年 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6057.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6087.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
是可以按日就是说我混着我我我爸爸我他是可以分拆的吗他不用一段完整时间不用了吗你已经取消了吗不是不是不是跟完整时间就是文就说像从今年开始对文耳根文说明第一个从今年1月1号开始因为我们开放让大家单日请所以单日请领的津贴就是单日算啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6091.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6116.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
对对对对对就是这是可以单日算的对是是是是是这是确定的这是确定的就是这不是不是不是我要说的是说我把我们把这东西整个制度在在说明的比较请 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6117.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6142.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
我先说我先讲现在的我先我先讲现在现在是总共六今天有60天六个月我们用其中30天让人家分天请这个分天请的30天的分天请这30天的每一个天就是可以用单日来算他的津贴的当然对 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6143.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6160.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
好所以我的意思是说我们在这几个做法下我刚才讲这三个做法下让接下来的流停波60天变成是假的方式也就是你可以请的假的这个运用的弹性可以更大 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6161.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6182.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
然后再加现在的双清的6加6可以再加三个月再加上把老保的投保薪资跟旧保脱钩让旧保可以再拉上来这几个做法下我们都认为是可以让爸爸来参与跟分担的机会会提高很多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6182.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6200.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
好 這個部長我剛剛在問的問題就是原本我們的育嬰留職津貼的半年六個月那你現在就是只開放其中一個月三十天是可以一天一天請對不對我要問你的是這五個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6201.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6227.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
他不可能是按天請對不對就等於是如果一個爸爸他離開職場他整整是5個月的時間離開這個職場對不對他說要領這個津貼那實務上我要問你的事就是說任何事情要考量一下國情鼓勵男性多請假這個我完全同意所以你按日請的我覺得他的可能性比較高但是在你必須是按月 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6228.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6250.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
連續五個月的這一塊我覺得可能性很低你可不可以告訴我們現在按月連續五個月男性來勤領你這個津貼育嬰留職津貼的比例有多少因為你的利益很好但是我很擔心的是你因為你拉了一個高門檻之後事實上真的會這樣做的比例還是低因為我不可諱言就是說在台灣的這個薪資結構底下 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6252.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6268.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
就一個家庭來講可能男性他還是佔比較高薪那在高薪的情況底下夫妻會算啦這不是也不是說照顧壓力要完全給女性的問題就是說我們一定是薪水比較比較低的人可能會以他留在家裡比較高的還是要支撐家裡的房貸啊車貸什麼這也不是什麼照顧義務的問題他有很實質的經濟考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6273.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6293.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
所以在這樣的情況底下才會是為什麼看到的現況是女性那個是她有家裡經濟收入的考慮問題因為你現在又只給八成薪而且你還有一個門檻的情況底下很多男性朋友即使他願意但夫妻商量之後老婆可能跟他說不行啊你還是繼續工作因為你薪水比較高你來養家 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6294.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6316.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
然後我來請你這個津貼會是這樣的情況所以我覺得你的制度設計你的利益雖然良善但是你必須考量這樣的情況這個也是為什麼有很多委員他講的是直接的延長而不是一定就是說你利益良好要男性進來參與這個大家沒意見但是實情上面會有整個家庭的經濟狀況的考量之後的結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6320.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6332.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
你要回應啊因為剛剛本來是要王振旭委員發言王玉敏委員要先發言所以你要是要回應他之後嗎講完之後我們等一下請王振旭委員發言我要說一說其實因為這個事情我們其實也跟蠻多的民間團體 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6333.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6340.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
包括婦女團體包括婦女婦女團體討論這個問題也不只是婦女薪資其實幾個婦女團體都跟他們討論這個問題其實確實現在婦女團體他們並不贊成直接把六個月變成九個月或12個月他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6352.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6365.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
对所以这个所以这个6加6就是双亲都请满才能够bonus才能够增加这件事情其实这个概念是跟妇女团体讨论的 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6367.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6389.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
這個概念是跟婦女團體好那他們的主張的對他們他們最大的我這是很實很實很實際的跟委員說明就是說他們最擔心的事情就是當只有一方面延長的時候就是變成最後請領的壓那個去請暈流停的壓力更大的壓在 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6390.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6414.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
某一個單性性別身上然後反而會成為某些性別在就業上面會遇到就業歧視的問題那那對所以所以也因為有經濟的考量所以我們才考慮把這個投保薪資上限再打開就是這裡面大概會有很多層面的配套的打開就是希望讓爸爸 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6421.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6434.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
我先讓我說完就是說為什麼五萬我也可以說明了因為今天如果是一個投保薪資五萬的話他的失業給付六成是拿三萬好他是拿三萬那 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6441.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6462.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
不是因为我因为这个是就业保险就业保险他是我我今天假设我用五五万来投保就业给付的时候我我的我失业的时候我算六成是拿三万今天如果今天一定会遇到假设我让失业给付人拿的太高甚至超过在工作的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6467.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6493.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
如果对工作的人他会想说为什么我在工作拿的比你没有在工作的人还来的少这其实会有一个观感上面的状况所以那个上限这件事情并不是我们想拉多高就多高的事情就是说我今天我们其实是想过的五万因为那是几乎六成所以是三万几乎现在是跟我们的最低工资是比较是差不多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6495.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6521.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
比较是差不多的可是可是我要说的事情说我们现在提的这几点我们在现在在提的这几点都是我们跟很多的性别团体包括托育团体性别团体跟托育团体包括托盟在讨论怎么样提高爸爸的参与率的时候他们很具体给我们的建议是这样做 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6527.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6542.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
好來來王振旭委員之後就李坤城委員發言王振旭委員謝謝那我們現在正在討論的是第493行政人板跟其他委員的版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6543.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6560.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
那行政院版其實想要透過延長津貼到9個月來鼓勵雙親共同育兒或在配偶不幸死亡的時候給予協助那這一點我們非常非常的支持可是在現行的規劃裡面呢卻漏掉了一個非常重要的弱勢團體 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6562.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6583.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
那如果家長是離婚未婚或者是遭遇家暴分居配偶失聯必須一樣一個人辛苦的獨自來撫養這些小孩子那這個狀況如果不能比照的話事實上對這一群非常弱勢的團體是非常非常的不公平所以我們在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6585.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6600.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
這部分呢其實在修正動議我們是希望在第一項增加第四款就是撫育子女是被保險人單獨行使或負擔對於該子女的權利義務或其他單獨撫育之事實且依前 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6602.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6619.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
且依前條的規定你滿六個月育兒金留子停薪的津貼的話那可以比照類似的做法那我跟老人部這邊經過討論以後我們也是同意說那在這個原來的第三款 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6620.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6646.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
部分扶育同一子女是雙親其中一人死亡再追加一段話就是或其他或有其他特殊事由自無法共同扶育子女者那後面就延續原來的另一人為被保險人且依前條規定領滿六個月育兒留職停薪津貼這樣的文字的部分做一個修正那期待大家共同來支持謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6647.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6670.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
這條我想在崑禎委員講之前我本來也要問就是說大五十九條之三我們大家支持因為要讓爸媽一起來請育嬰假可是你的第三款 包括基金會他也提出一個建議我覺得真的要值得認真討論你現在第三款只有上偶可以使用可是離婚的單親或者單身生育的一個家長 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6671.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6699.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
一樣是一個人去扛所有育兒責任的話壓力不見得比較小所以勞動部有沒有考慮把這些勤賢納進來你好像單納入的話事實上好像我覺得不太反而是我覺得離婚或者說我今天單身生育我是被懲罰嗎所以當然納入的話到底財務影響大概會是多少你們可以去考慮可是我覺得應該要中整去並做 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6700.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6709.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
因為剛剛跟我覺得證據委員的意見事實上是差不多的那我也補充一下還有一個同性的雙親一併回答等一下我先問完再一併回答因為我剛剛才跟王醫師討論到說那如果是單親的家庭怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6723.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6744.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
那單親家庭有很多的因素造成的那因為我們這邊是寫說雙親要雙親均離滿六個月的警帖那所以王醫師這邊有一個修正的動議我是覺得等一下部長這邊可以回應一下那第二個就是說那這其實用意是良善的我們是希望說其實就是增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6745.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6770.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
爸爸啦 這個在這個照顧這個小孩的這個誘因所以才會有6加3嘛那其實剛剛也提到說那有可能在目前的這一個台灣的社會制度之下男性的薪資有可能應該大部分都是比女性都還要高啦那所以其實所以我剛剛也注意到說部長有提到說這一個投保薪資的上限可以打開啦那我說那這個東西是要修法嗎還是說你們這邊可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6772.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6777.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
前面有通過了所以五萬塊嗎 確定嗎好 那一併回答好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6779.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6802.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
還有包含剛剛陳經緯委員問的就同性的這一併在因為我的問題也是李昆城委員的延伸所以我也問一下因為剛剛部長有講到說要把他提高到五萬所以我們當然馬上也會有就是在看直播的他會很關心說預計什麼時候會開始那另外最後我們是確認說是不是零八成這樣謝謝部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6806.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6830.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
剛才講的幾個問題第一個問題就是那個同性的部分同性部分也包括在這裡面同一部分包括在這裡面第二個就是說我們把投保薪資上限其實跟勞保脫鉤這事情在前面的條文應該第九條其實我們已經通過了那接下來我們會另訂一個這個分級表這個在分級表裡面就會來處理這件事情所以只要法律通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6832.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6860.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
这个修法通过就会来处理这件事就把分级表给定出来就定出来那所以刚刚那刚才秦桧呃陈伟仁在问的后面一个问题就是说是不是有八成没错就是八成就是一样是六成加两成所以如果未来拉到五万的话假设拉到五万投保薪资上限拉到五万的话那八成的话就是会有四万块好那是会会比现在再多所以我意思说我们 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6861.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6870.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
因为我们也去看了几个国家目前最近在修订跟育儿相关的法律里面都非常非常强调要让爸爸多参与 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6891.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6906.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
所以我們其實也是參考參考這個做法那這個做法不是我們發明的這也是很多民間團體來跟我們講那我們來採行這個做法的以上我們先休息十分鐘拜託互相溝通一下休息後我們繼續開會 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6922.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6924.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6941.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6969.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
因為原本就是 譬如說就會讓女性反而就比較可能遇到 直接照顧自己的女孩然後離開族長階層 甚至在職業在面試的時候他又可能覺得 哇 體驗要提升長期的長期的距離 這種的話可能一段時間 九個月 十二個月再離開族長的時候我可能再做一個比較實際的 比較更服務的他們是在講這件事所以他們這時候跟我講 如果單單的 他們真的說要發洩到別人 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6970.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6989.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
其實你現在的重點就是要增加男性照顧的對 因為我還有其他人增加比較好評價的男性但是他請假可以得到這個薪水是比較高的至少跟他實際的落差不太大我們是把這個降幅 雖然說全部完全取消了但我覺得多測兩個幾點 這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6992.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7005.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
那如果你把那個零星在拿大陸,我也有想問,如果體育在往大陸,可是體育在往大陸,他會超過這個嗎?是的,我覺得他們一定可以,但是我要問一下,他在工作是不是?那這個做一關感覺如何? |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7013.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7014.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
綁在老闆裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7027.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7034.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
對阿 月的我覺得是最早啦對啦 多早是應該把你這個拉掉嗎如果把這個開開的話 那是誰的大公司啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7047.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7058.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
對,我要照片,因為在我畢業的過程中,沒有,那我就覺得事實在是,他恐怕就在這裡待會兒,所以我自己逼一兩天,就說恐怕你在日本,那我怕他還住在日本。 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7065.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7069.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
在這裏面,我們可以看到有很多不同的藝術藝術和藝術藝術 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7085.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7097.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
這個就是王浩鋪就是說在街頭上面你在什麼第一兩三角一個門他恐怕就在這個單層那如果是單層稍微移動他會稍微稍微移動所以就沒有辦法移動 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7115.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7118.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7145.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7149.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
所以有另外一個點,暗日的,我可能會希望暗日的 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7161.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7169.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
但是當時他們兩個人比較好他就精神比較高的那一方你就會看得到 因為郭主任不會濫用但你要緊張 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7183.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7185.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
我跟妳談戀愛 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7202.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7226.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
我就說你只要自家裏面考量完之後我就會看到 因為我們家裏面就叫另外一半也請滿我要考量我們所有的職員怎麼樣職員一定是個薪水比較高的我薪水比較高的我這樣家裏面還能維持我家族中央所以有一些部分我覺得蠻值得意見的因為他們一旦公開就完全是這個意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7231.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7242.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
那個是可能太太一路就可以了那我現在還沒有辦法我工作我才三萬多富 怎麼可能把我拔退你問一下 你們共同商議為了這個家的最好的經濟好處 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7247.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7249.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
每天每天吃 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7270.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7275.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
但是一天一天其實對爸爸所以我覺得他沒有損失太多 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7287.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7310.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
反正你如果只有25天就是零25天反正你如果只有25天就是零25天反正你如果只有25天就是零25天反正你如果只有25天就是零25天反正你如果只有25天就是零25天反正你如果只有25天就是零25天反正你如果只有25天就是零25天反正你如果只有25天就是零25天 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7314.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7323.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
如果運營一家旗艦,要不要印鈔啊?他就是把它插進去,然後太太就是會把正常的東西放在帳篷裡面。 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7329.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7330.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
所以不需要也不需要美金 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7346.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7364.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
我們跟一般的企鋪一樣他可以比較深情可是我還是要得到他那一面因為我們家可以累積深情可以累積我還是要得到他那一面他累積深情我們從來都不在乎他每天一天一天弄這個他缺錢他缺錢反正作業名單比較長不好包含銀行的資源 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7369.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7380.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
就會比你更高 覺得比這個名利更高因為他的談心加大了男生情緻的比較一般你要求一個高興的男性就是年齡的媽咪 到家裡那時候可以去認識的談心 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7385.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7388.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
然後就要離開很久這樣子就一天而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7408.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7423.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
那你明明是過來支撐 也許早就發生了我好 等一下 粉飾我如果今天中午一樣那我要明天中午還因為今天中午不用給外國人 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7426.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7445.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
你怕就太勞動夫了所以因為你們剛講的我主張這個所以有一個目的就是說全男性然後還另外兩層的去製作你可以鼓勵男性參與但是在製作上不一定是那一種但是你才能達到你的目標因為男生你讓他一個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7449.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7454.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
請頂天加男女同胞這個叫做家庭婚後不是單純家庭婚後 而是家庭婚後我知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7476.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7490.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
其實委員的提案就是想要放生的家庭就是要讓他們回來今天如果提案延長都是絕對的但你會不會給他一些成績但是你們剛剛也在說我們一直用性別的概念在這邊算是沒有完結的 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7495.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7514.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
當然啦,你要男生出來,我跟你說,你就是排放女生,就是你看到現在的女生沒有,你在原來的體驗啊因為他沒有增加,你也沒有增加,你也沒有增加性數但是我只能告訴你,這些女男生可以守住性命哦,太平凡了 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7522.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7543.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
我知道你們的意思啦我知道你們的意思啦 但是就是說這樣如果不是以開發的方式為基礎的話就是沒關系啦 因為他還是有一個單特的天花板鼓勵男性真的是他會比較容易但是跟完整齊合一整天就不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7549.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7567.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
我剛已經看到數據晴月的還是在暫時期間我再跟你講日的我覺得暫時期間日一定可以所以我說比如說日的才去再採訪南線才去但是我們其實有問的一些科學的疑問還有就是加上那一個原因因為你知道你上面的行業有加薪 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7578.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7584.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
你開放日會增加資金?開放日已經增加資金那日的贊助贊助就增加責任責任責任責任責任責任責任責任責任責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7608.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7622.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
把育嬰這件事情放在舊寶裡面我知道啦你們一直過不去就是舊寶本來是失業的就一直用失業的回過來看人家然後就會打架過年來過去這件事情所以我們盡量在裡面討論是可以的 知道可以的 請問一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7639.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7643.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
這裏面有個大廈,這裏面有個大廈,這裏面有個大廈 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7656.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7658.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
因為最近被罵的那個是外籍人 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7684.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7692.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
有一點問題因為加入勞保所以說我知道你現在法人就會知道你的那個就是外國人剛才 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7713.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7739.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
所以不用常常說就像你剛才說的很短暫而且它還有報導它軌道是真正的因為根本不認可我們畢竟說上次我們的一個辦公室的名字是忠實的忠實的我們就是忠實的忠實的忠實的 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7750.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7752.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
好 現在繼續開會 我們現在繼續審查19條之3邱惠璐委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7762.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7775.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
還有各位委員還有各位同仁大家好那我想19條之三因為昨天我們在新公法的修正草案當中有提到本黨有幾個價別是創設出來的一個就是16條之一的親職價一個就是16條之二的親職教育價那再來就是20條的家庭照顧價我們想要把它從無薪變有薪那當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7787.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7795.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
這些價相對應就要給予津貼才能夠提升父母他們去請這些價的誘因也才能夠達到最終照顧小孩的一個目的那至於這三種價裁員從哪邊來呢那我們就把它設計在救保法第19條之3的規定那關於輕職價的這個裁員我們就是讓他跟育嬰留庭的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7813.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7817.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
每個可以請領80%然後可以請領到9個月這個是合併計算的好這個是合併計算的好那剛剛當然我們在第19條之後有提到這邊也就叫勞動部嘛就是說育民委員有提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7829.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7856.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
如果我们的勤领的金额是80%的薪水那为什么不能够让他入法那其实劳动部这边的一个说法就是说希望能够对其失业给付的规定那还有就是希望能够不要去吃到旧保的一些经费那我们是在想说如果劳动部的他的concern是这样那是不是关于那个20%我们可以用修正动力的方式去处理关于这额外的20%就是另定 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7858.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7866.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
法源那宰民說政府可以另外用補助的方式來為之那如此的一個做法也能夠讓這個裁員的來源有明確的法源依據而且也能夠讓裁員穩定這是第一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7874.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7904.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
第二件事情當然我們提到16條之二的親子教育假還有提到20條的家庭照顧假也都是有形的這個費用當然我們這邊也提到就是要由救保的這些相關的費用來支付我們還有在第19條第三條也關照到因為也是相對於新公法的一些相關規定就是說如果是依兒少法或者是依家庭事件處理法正在申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7905.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7931.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
收養子女那可能在那之前會有一個先行共同生活的期間那在這期間的人也同樣是可以請領這樣的一個金額以上說明謝謝部長因為剛剛其實我們有很多的說明剛才有跟委員不管朝野的委員有說明所以當然我知道委員會要這條會要保留那我想我們就當然也是保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7933.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7950.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
好 那19條之三就保留接下來19條一樣是寫一封版的就很多好幾個委員版的那一樣19條之三那請行政部門說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7953.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7978.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
要說明到在11條的時候有說明增加這個所有的幾戶的項目的這個部分都會影響到整個保險的財務所以這個部分還是要有勞資達到共識因為未來可能要調費力來因應的這個部分所以我們都建議都不予增訂是那委員沒有的話我們就這一條就不予增訂那接下來續審 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7980.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8005.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
二十二十條是委員的提案他是配合第十一條的失業給付等待期的條件有十四天縮短為七天那修正失業給付的起算從第八天開始提算那剛剛因為第十一條的部分是保留那所以這個部分是不是也是保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8007.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8013.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
好這一條這個我有提案那我提這一條失業給付原來我們的時間是15天現在就是縮短到第8天起算 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8020.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8048.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
那這一條我不知道跟11條有什麼連動關係這完全是給付的起算時間而已應該是可以獨立脫鉤的那我的用意就是因為現在每一個家庭的狀況真的很不一樣當他遇到失業困難的時候有的可能是有子女要撫養有的可能他有房貸車貸還等著要繳那因為這個也沒有涉及到延長他的時間只是這個起算提早 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8049.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8072.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
讓他可以去度過這個生活的難關那你們原來的提案就是要按照我們的提案通過嗎你們的建議就是要提案通過那不用綁在一起 這有什麼需要綁在一起要綁在一起是因為我們的第11條的事業己戶的勤領條件事業己戶的勤領條件是說要從他向救福站辦理求職登記 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8073.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8091.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
那自求職登記之日起14天內沒有辦法推介就業或者是安排詞訊的時候才給他失業給付從第15天開始給因為那邊保留所以你們這邊暫時保留但是你們是同意從第8天嗎7天 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8094.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8112.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
那是因為11條他那邊保留了的關係嗎所以這一條我們從第8天起算是沒有問題的嗎終於有一條你們同意了謝謝我們很多條都同意很多人的版本你都不同意你就只有同意這一條那第20條還是保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8119.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8137.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
因為原本的14天我們原本也同意是14天改成7天可是14天改成7天在11條裡面那因為11條被保留了所以我們所以我們還沒確認14天變7天這件事情確認了以後我們在第20條這邊我們也會同意因為他的設計要照顧精神 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8145.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8165.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
那第25條也是配合剛剛第11條的等待期14天變成7天喔那所以這個可能也必須要保留這個就在算在計算那個求職登記第7天內要怎麼安排資訊的時候啊怎麼合法失業期或者程序沒有人要表示意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8185.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8207.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
可以 因為我也有修正動議這一條是配合我們剛剛11條的那個失業幾戶等待期本來從秋實辦理登記開始14天內要去做就業就業推薦或安排職業訓練那現在從14天改成第7天所以有關於25條我們就規範說 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8211.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8241.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
他來申請失業認定的時候公立就業服務站要在14天內推介就業那這邊就要改成7天那就沒有辦法在7天內推介就業的時候要在隔天就完成失業認定來發給失業給付這個是這樣子所以前面的保留14天變7天的這個部分保留那這個部分就是也是修正從14天修正為7天的這個部分變成也是要保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8243.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8243.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
那接下來續審第30 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8264.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8280.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
第三十條我們有李玉玲委員徐巧欣委員跟范雲委員三位有提案針對第三十條而觀如果他是符合救福法第24條的特定對象失業者他在申領失業給付的過程當中辦理失業債認定的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8282.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8310.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
我們那個修法是建議把至少提供兩次以上的求職紀錄改成調降提供次數為一次以上或者是客與中央主管機關訂相關的規範來減免他提供的一個次數那這樣子的一個提案在這個部裡面的評估是第一個目前依照救保法的一個制度仍然以優先促進就業而不是一發生失業就馬上直接提供失業給付所以才有第30條有關 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8312.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8333.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
他在辦理失業再認定的時候至少提供兩次紀錄的這樣子的一個規範而目前實務上來說請求職者提供一個月兩次的求職紀錄的部分並不會有太大的一個為難而且我們的採認的方式也已經有多元化的方式可以來做採認那所以在基於考量弱勢的勞工更需要協助的情況之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8334.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8348.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
一個月兩次的求職行為這樣子的一個規範應該屬可行如果再做減少為一個月一次的話那這個可能會延後他重返回歸職場的一個時間更不利他的再就業所以我們建議這個提案是不是可以維持有沒有意見沒有就維持現行條文接下來續審第32條 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8362.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8384.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
跟委員報告三十二條是規範失業給付他是要從在就業資質起三日內要通知公立就業服務站那委員或者是國民黨團有提案的是配合第十條來增訂照顧津貼那訂名申請津貼的應備文件跟程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8384.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8399.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
那因為剛剛第十條的部分是保留所以本來我們是希望能夠維持現行法啦但是是對我想那個照顧津貼的部分我剛剛前面講過照顧不離職這個是很多民間團體的訴求也是國民黨黨團我們覺得很重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8405.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8421.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
面對現在的這個高齡還有很多長照需求的家庭所以我們剛剛前面已經講過就是第10條第11條第19條之3還有現在的第32條都涉及到照顧津貼的發放所以都一併保留謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8422.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8437.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
主席王志俊委員他剛才第三支條說要維持現行條文不過范議員他是很期待能夠先保留到第二輪的時候再來討論一次好不好謝謝第三支條謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8438.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8464.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
那第32條就先行保留接下來續審我們剛剛想是30條30條剛已經說保留保留嗎沒有喔已經對所以才說30條是不是可以請求主席在先保留對謝謝所以是幫發言委員請的嗎對對對好好好 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8466.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8494.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
好那30條就保留那32條也是保留那32之一32條之一是我們行政院有版本那主要是為了因應辦理救保的實務運作那增訂主管機關保險人跟公立救護站可以洽請相關機關來協助提供必要的資料跟系統連結等等規定那建議依行政院的提案來通過 以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8496.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8523.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
有關意見沒有的話就三十二之一按照行政院版本通過接下來去審三十三之一三十三之一也是委員提案我這個三十三小之一是涉及到照顧津貼以並跟黨團的保留那三十三之一保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8524.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8553.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
那接下去審三四三四條是委員的提案是配合行政院的主改根據提升基金投資應用範圍的多元性來增進基金的收益刪除第二項不得為權益證券跟衍生性金融商品的投資的規定那建議依委員鄭天才等16人的提案通過那委員有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8564.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8568.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
那按照正天才委員的版本通過那接下來續審38 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8572.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8598.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
38條是委員 呂委員提案是他配合他所提的修正條文第6條的規定從到職當日生效的那個條文然後這一個38條來著作文字修正那因為第6條是決議是維持現行法所以這邊第38條也是決議是建議維持現行法以上委員有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8601.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8606.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
沒有的話就是按照現行法律那接下來38-1 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8609.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8632.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
38-1是委員提案是增訂處罰環經過本法經處於罰環的人那要訂定名義的處分那這樣子可以督促投保單位遵循本法的規定那我們建議依照委員王玉敏等19人委員賴慧龍等18人委員鄭天才等16人的提案通過以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8636.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8660.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
好謝謝勞動部終於這個通過這一條了38條之一那我想當時我提案的用意呢就是希望比照我們的職災保險法第100條的規定那像這種我們應該是要督促就是大家應該就是就會保險應該都要依法去投報那如果有違反的就應該要做出名譽處分這樣子對 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8662.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8688.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
好謝謝支持這一條通過其他委員有沒有意見沒有的話就是依委員王玉敏等19人委員賴若隆等18人委員鄭天才16人提案通過接著繼續進行討論事項繼續審查性別平等工作法部分修正條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8689.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8699.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
等117案的第二輪審查每條條會先請行政單位說明接著來請那個委員表示意見所以我們現在回到信工 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8741.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8742.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
好那我們現在休息五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8754.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8764.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
昨天保留的那幾條啊?第二條現在是新的?對如果大家都沒意見就說還是沒共識就繼續保留因為我現在是12週到14週 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8777.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8784.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
然后...对,八岁,讲出来做点工资,一个人做三个东西。那是什么?自首造型啊?他和朋友。 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8807.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8812.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
因為我們今天是沒有接到任何問題地方是很危險,所以他們又用這個威脅叫我們不要 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8825.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8827.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
希望政府不會得罪企業 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8856.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8857.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
这边有个厨房 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8869.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8877.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
是吧,那是二十幾嗎?二十二十二十二十二十二十二十二十二十 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8891.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8892.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
昨天前的那一份 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8907.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8935.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
所以我的意思是 因為跟我們亂說亂看是那一種 反而關心的才是精彩的對呀 是的不能夠因為說你自己的考慮對呀要到時候說你自己不收第二次的考慮喔喔喔 因為到了我們要修辭提醒 要修辭提醒因為那個時候的病境我是拿掉如果我不拿掉 我會影響到我們就把我們彼此看彼此看他們的所有的東西 因為它就是不允許 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8936.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8937.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
严重的 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8952.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8960.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
家庭照顧叫我們知道,但是我以為我們沒有跟他們講話所以我簽那個是很意思的,之後我才知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8972.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8973.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
我以為那個長照家是熱死的我們沒有21個,只有20條 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8995.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8998.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
這間餐廳的餐廳有很多不同的食物 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9016.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9018.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
嗯嗯嗯 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9033.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9033.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9061.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9061.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9082.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9084.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
中文字幕——YK |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9113.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9114.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
谢谢观看 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9146.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9146.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
嗯。 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9171.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9172.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
嗯嗯嗯嗯嗯嗯嗯 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9192.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9214.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
謝謝觀賞 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9214.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9214.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
韓國瑜議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9237.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9237.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9252.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9253.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9289.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9295.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
我們現在繼續改為現在進行本案的第二輪就是性供法第二輪的逐條討論那現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9298.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9318.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
討論第二條 調溫主席來 我們楊耀偉我想你們就建教生的部分是不是再向各位委員做個說明 好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9318.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9332.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
是 謝謝委員看他的特殊性在哪裡為什麼被排除在外 好不好是 現在昨天委員有關心的是尖叫聲的部分在性供法上面的適用特別是排除暈流停相關的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9333.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9358.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
那這個部分跟我們說明現在建教生因為主要他的身份他是學生的身份但是呢為了他增長他的技能所以基本上在特定教育部有規劃在他特定的學程的期間會到職場上面去做一個學習技能在這樣的狀況之下其實建教生專法針對學生要去做建教生在建教機構 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9359.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9382.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
跟監教機構跟學生之間簽書面契訓練契約學校跟機構之間簽那個合作契約基本上會有很嚴謹的規範去保護學生的相關權益那比如說我們昨天討論到說那監教生為什麼他的這個孕孕留庭要排除目前教育部有定一個學生懷孕受教權維護及輔導協助要點 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9385.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9410.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
針對學生不論他是不是建教生他如果懷孕了其實相關的假或者是相關他需要長一點的時間要休學那但是呢他復學跟不影響他權益的部分在教育部的這個相關的規規劃都有這個在要點裡面都有提及那如果他是建教生在企業做相關的建教或實習那他如果請假或休學 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9411.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9437.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
如果再复学的时候学校其实会有义务在协助学生找到相关的企业的这个这个这个实习或者是建教的机会那这一块在教育环境上面基本上保障他的学籍会是最核心的部分所以我们跟教育部有沟通过这一块可能他因为他没有办法课一学年签这个合作的训练机构 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9438.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9458.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
去運行比較長的運流亭等等的相關機制所以這一塊在當時在法治上面建立的時候才會走向建教生專法那邊去走而不是走在性供法我能不能這樣子理解就是建教生因為他有學生身份所以他假如懷孕了他就要休學 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9460.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9472.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
所以他如果懷孕還是可以繼續上課是沒有問題但是他如果需要休養的話他可以請假或休學或休學那他一旦休學其實建教的關係就會結束對不對所以才會被排除在 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9483.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9507.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
對 像這樣子講像昨天你剛剛講的那個要點你們在討論的時候也沒有提出來嘛所以就是說必須要把一些相關的規定跟為什麼把競選生排除在外的理由說清楚那這樣子大家都可以接受好不好好 謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9510.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9522.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
這條我們就照行政院提案通過那接下來去審被保留的第15條請行政部門說明一下第15條 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9525.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9533.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
委員還是容我們可以再補充一些資訊15條其實當然現在昨天討論到國際比較的部分那這邊想要再說明一點資訊就是說現在ILO的確是產假14週但是呢它ILO同時有規定說其實對於產假14週但是對於女性勞工的這個意願的部分它有規範說 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9549.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9574.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
生产后一定要强制休息六周的部分那回到我们这一次然后再加上他其实没有那么细致化的昨天有跟各位报告我们台湾走的路是我们是属于分项规范包含在怀孕期间的母体跟胎儿我们有产检价生产的时候开始到这个那个母体的相关的健康的 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9575.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9588.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
恢復我們有產假然後包含照顧小朋友的部分我們有育兒留庭或育兒假但是歐洲整個的規範它其實是希望產後恢復跟照顧是融為一體 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9589.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9611.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
去做一些整個親子從那個母體到嬰兒那所以如果從我們這一次院版的這個規範12週的產假那包含概念上從生之前的產檢假這7天加進去其實我們總共就會有13週然後如果昨天跟我們報告再加上兩年的孕流停 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9612.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9627.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
其實我們的整套的規範在整個國際比較上面來看起來是不會落後太多那這一次其實兼顧了我們其實希望把增加產價的經費把它公共化所以我們會希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9628.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9651.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
這也是由政府編列預算那這個部分如果還要再增加那個14週的話然後再加上產檢價等等如果相關的經費其實我們會希望說是不是能夠綜合整體的考量對於母體跟嬰兒其實我們這一次都有並同有增加的方向可以綜合一下讓我們產價這邊可以有12週是 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9657.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9671.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
因為昨天已經討論蠻多的不過我也是稍微補充說明一下我再去查了一些資料對剛剛官員有舉比如說歐洲的例子那像北歐等等當然他們會把這個產價跟後面的育嬰會一起把它 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9675.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9694.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
串連在一起但是其實他跟我們有個很大的差別就他們許多這個因為保險制度的不同所以不管他們育兒或者是他們的產價是全新的這個跟我們台灣目前的現況是不太一樣所以我們當然是有很多人他是必須要回到職場這個是現實面的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9696.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9722.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
所以當然如果說我們最終有機會可以走到像歐洲那樣全新我覺得我們就不用去糾結這個天數或者是週數但今天我們在講的是讓母體身心還有寶寶這個昨天都已經說過了就是母嬰健康充分休息的時間所以雖然說每個委員的版本可能略略不同但我希望可以先保留我們之後再來細聊 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9726.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9749.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
12 13 14中间也许可以有一些调整好不好谢谢这个议题呢其实这个产假的问题已经讨论很久了我昨天已经讲过了好不容易劳动部现在愿意跨出这一步以前讨论这个议题你们是铁板一块了都不用讲免谈了就是维持原来的现行条文那现在好不容易你们自己也愿意跨出来了 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9750.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9767.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
應該也是有看到這一個實際上的需求那另外我要特別強調現在少子化的問題真的是國安這個已經到國安層級了這個是要我們用盡最大的力氣我們去展現整個國家政府的力量 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9768.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9770.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
我們可以支撐到這些年輕父母到什麼程度我們就盡量提供因為國家跟你一起養已經變成是政府必須去扛起的責任如果我們不跨更大步一點我覺得真的很難激勵這些年輕的父母親他們在 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9786.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9805.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
這個生小孩這件事情上就是他願意再更進一步所以我昨天已經講過既然國際勞動組織他就是14星期我覺得勞動部真的也不需要太糾結我們直接把它調整我們就是跟國際就是標準一致我們回給國際勞動組織說台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9807.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9810.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
14週沒問題我們已經做到了透過這次的修法那你剛提到的很多其他的配套等等我們沒有比較差我們現在不是在講說我們沒有比較差台灣應該可以更好以台灣現在的經濟實力我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9825.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9842.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
股市这么的风风火火我们的半导体我们的经济成长率我们整体政府的税收以我们的经济实力我觉得我们值得给我们的这些怀孕的妇女在产假给到14天只是跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9844.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9870.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
國際標準對齊而已沒有超出因為國際勞工組織他們希望下一個階段是邁向18週我們現在連14週都沒有所以其實我覺得在這個部分勞動部再回去想想但是我們不是說我們沒有比較差我們其實是可以更好我希望這個部分你們回去也可以重新再做思考那我們就是先保留我先請范委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9874.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9899.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
我了解喔就是那個ILO的這個部分是14週喔那可是就是說很多時候我們制度改革沒有辦法單點只看一項喔那也要跟大家講一下就是說這次賠產減價跟賠產價增加我是很支持的喔因為上一波勞動部改革的時候只有片面增加女性的產檢加兩天當時我就跟許民村部長爭取然後有爭取到 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9900.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
9923.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
就是爸爸的部分就另外一位家長的部分也很重要因為要不然女性好像這個變成她一個人的事那其實會做產檢或是各方面反而增加就是這都是媽媽一個人的責任那所以關於這一題就是當然肯定就是勞動部這一次會提升就是關於這個產價那可是我也要告訴大家就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
9924.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
9939.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
一直長期推動相關性別工作平等法的法案跟改革的婦女薪資跟托盟他們其實是反對單方面延長產價他不是不支持他是擔心說你只有處理這個部分可是 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
9939.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
9966.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
其他的批陪產檢架還是差距很大那會強調新生兒照料就是母親的責任那應該要改革的更重要優先做的應該是公托服務彈性育嬰架的機制跟配偶使用育嬰架的比例那他們擔心這個可能也會對女性的職場造成的影響那我想這部分我就是表達有這些不同的考慮讓大家一起參考以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
9967.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
9991.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
我覺得的確 勞動部可以 如果等一下要保留的話我就回去好好思考因為今天一直在 因為本來8週然後延長到12週已經往前進 這個我們予以肯認可是如果說要再延長像ILO的這樣的一個制度到底我們台灣的整個的產業發展結構並不是跟歐洲一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
9992.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10014.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
這樣的情況的時候我們幾乎都是小型企業那到底有沒有去精算過或者是以再往延長的時候那對產業的狀況有什麼還有一個我昨天就談過的我非常擔心的尤其是一個蘿蔔一個坑的就是幼教的現場跟拖鷹中心現場 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10016.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10034.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
最後會不會因為這樣因為過往就很常是當天就是沒有人而有人請了假了那就是會變成是政府也不可能這樣子天天去查核那最後就是一個老師承擔一個班可是基本上應該是兩個老師承擔一個班去看到家長說他為什麼不願意生育他還有一個很重要的因素 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10041.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10049.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
因為他說如果事實上是送出去假設很多不安全的話對他來講他不要每天驚心膽跳的去 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10050.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10075.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
負擔所以要去做制度的調整往12週你們有去按照委員講的要再往14週調整之後那到底又會是增加是什麼是增加我相信一定是多休息讓我們的孕產婦多休息是好事而從8週也增長到12週那要再往上的時候有沒有要去考量更多這個我也覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10076.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10104.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
保安部要去考量尤其是教育部跟社家屬都要一併來做討論我不希望說最後影響的還是我們的下一代在講制度的時候還是要去思考多個面向看起來是好事最後影響到另外一群人的權益我也不樂見所以這一個我們就持續繼續保留那接下來16 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10119.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10119.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
嗯 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10121.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10145.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
跟委員報告因為現在的確剛剛就像剛剛召委提到的其實這一件事情我們有經過徵詢很多產業面然後包含那個相關的團體其實我們會希望階段性的可以讓我們這一次就像日本韓國他們也是階段性的雖然現在他們是八歲但是他們之前也先階段性的先六歲 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10146.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10171.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
在6歲然後在幾年前才修正往8歲讓企業都有一個可以適應的一個階段性那我們也會希望說現在其實我們會鎖定6歲學齡前因為同時我們要看教育部其實針對小朋友進到國小的確委員昨天有提到的是國小階段他的上課時間是不一樣但是我們同時教育部針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10172.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10189.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
低年級課後輔導部分也有一些的相關的配套所以我們其實部會之間也有共同研議過在我們會希望身為爸爸媽媽不要什麼什麼都是由爸爸媽媽離開職場平於本命所以在教育部那邊相關的配套 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10191.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10217.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
在課後輔導或課後的小朋友可以留在學校有老師可以幫忙這個教導學習的這樣的一個配套的狀況之下我們會希望說階段性的讓我們先延到6歲因為畢竟受僱者其實會增加一倍以上那對於產業整個的衝擊其實是大的那所以這個部分是不是如果委員可以的話我們可以請教育部針對低年級其實相關現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10219.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10225.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
有的一些相關的制度可以讓委員可以知道來 下一步下一步那個林淑敏副組長在嗎 可不可以說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10247.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10257.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
跟主席跟委員報告那在教育部國教署這邊針對學生他如果就是在課後的時間因為現在就是依照課綱的規範那不同年級他的上課時數是不一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10262.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10284.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
那至於就是如果課後有需要的話學生他可以就是學校可以依照學生的需求辦理課後照顧的相關的一些服務那這些課後照顧其實可以由學校自行辦理或者是學校他委託相關的單位共同合作來辦理那都可以有一些相關的經費來做補助以上說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10289.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10314.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
那教育部請說明一下就是有參加你的那個課後安親班的比例有多少有多少是到校外的這個安親班另外一個就是說教育部現在對於我們這個低年級孩子的服務如果他突然感染了這個流感生病突然在上課過程中生病教育部老師會直接帶他去看醫生嗎還是你是打電話叫家長過來 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10316.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10326.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
打電話叫家長過來還有補充詢問一下您說提供的這些課後輔導他收費的比例有多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10329.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10358.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
好 委員說的那個數據的部分不好意思因為我手邊現在沒有是不是可以我們查詢之後再跟委員做報告那確實就是說學生如果說在學校真的是發生學校身體有一些狀況的時候那學校會有一個就是校務的部分會優先來做一些協助那當然就是說如果有需要去看醫生或是有狀況的話可能就會是會跟家長去做聯繫的 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10360.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10379.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
好 谢谢说明这个劳动部请听一下你说有教育部的机制但是孩子有状况的时候还是找家长过来家长还是要请假这个就是重点所以不是说你教育部有课后辅导好像就一切OK今天我们在讲的 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10380.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10394.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
這個育兒假為什麼希望有彈性為什麼希望可以到8歲事實上是讓父母親的角色因為這一個階段的孩子真的需要父母親親力親為的部分就是比較多所以就是要給父母親 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10395.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10410.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
可以来协助给他方便谈性然后让他来处理这些孩子的事务所以跟你刚刚讲说他有课后的这个机制这是两件事情刚刚教育部回答也非常明确了孩子一旦有状况生病 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10410.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10428.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
就是打电话叫家长来那请问这个时候你现在的育儿假的机制你只到六岁这种低年级的孩子你刚刚的说法是说因为有课后辅导所以没有问题那孩子有状况的时候还不是一样打电话叫家长来请问他请什么假 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10429.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10446.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
他有假可以請嘛你的預約假他就用不到啊這個是為什麼從昨天我覺得昨天是跨黨派的共識吧包括召委也支持啊林淑芬委員她今天沒有來她昨天也發言力挺啊那我們國民黨這邊也是全部支持啊那民間團體當時的訴求 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10449.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10465.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
也是希望至少到8岁如果你说12岁太多我觉得到8岁真的是相对合理的就是以孩子身心发展的阶段而言这个时候他还是需要爸爸妈妈另外一个重点完全没有增加天数在你原来的天数范围之内 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10466.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10485.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
沒有增加多一天只是希望你們給家長的彈性再放寬那這樣子才是我們這樣的修法才有意義你讓真的孩子有狀況的時候需要用得到的家長孩子還小在低年級的這些家長真的是因為這一次的修法通過因為我們改了很多名稱叫育兒假 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10486.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10496.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
那真的让家长有受惠我觉得这个是我们想要极力去帮家长争取的啦希望你们还是要慎重去考量谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10498.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10518.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
好謝謝主席在部長回應之前其實我們針對這一條也希望能夠把任職六個月改成三個月的部分當然我相信昨天部長也清楚的說明六個月跟三個月之間帶來的衝擊跟影響如果說真的希望不去變動這個六個月的話那是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10519.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10546.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
有其他的方式方式來加強對於這項業界能夠更好的一些可以來允許的部分所以這部分可不可以就用附帶決議的方式來處理好不好以上謝謝我認為這條應該就是保留然後當然回應那個王振興委員的部分我們可以用附帶決議的方式來處理但我們這條就是先保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10548.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10559.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
好 那也要麻煩勞動部去後續再算一下說到底這影響的那個層面多廣因為我覺得這一條跟前面那一條比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10561.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10582.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
不一樣 如果事實上針對到8歲的確有些需求在的話是不是可以去滿足 為什麼 因為畢竟還是年幼的小孩 因為8歲以下 尤其進入到小學階段的時候他那我覺得如果剛剛講客戶照顧 客戶照顧並不是家長會一定 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10583.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10591.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
選擇外邊教育部辦的通常不是都會選擇外部的比較多因為那時候已經是在刻意的追求 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10592.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10617.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
成績的時候所以不會選擇教育部內部的所以我覺得這個不是一個影響的只是我覺得說如果在能接受的範圍因為通常不增加量的話那是不是可以考慮讓他時間上可以有往後有一個彈性因為畢竟60天30天固定的只是說他可以到8歲的時候還可以8歲前還是可以使用這去考慮跟我覺得那個15條我真的覺得應該後邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10622.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10651 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
不管國民黨或者是民眾黨也可能要去考慮的產業和各方面我剛剛提的安全這一塊真的要去中整考量然後不能每次對在爭取的時候都覺得為了這一方可是有一天有一方權益受損的時候相信又有人會跳出來嗎可能要去考慮這一個我覺得還是回來我們的主體是為了產婦我們主體還是有一個東西是為了小孩來我們16條就保留那 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10652.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10659.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
接下來16條之1一樣嗎 那我們就保留那19條16條之2保留19條 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10677.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10700.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
那个19条部分其实因为其实昨天讨论很多那我们还是希望说是不是可以用一个附带决议来督促但就是督促说我们这个阶段我们先用奖励的方式来往前那我们尽量把奖励的这个幅度给扩大我就我们尽量把奖励 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10701.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10719.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
相關的或設限的部分盡量減少那把獎勵可以有的給大家的待遇跟福利盡量可以給提高讓企業願意同意的門檻降低那我們在做獎勵一段時間以後再來檢討有更多在業界的data或更多勞動現場樣態 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10722.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10737.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
的條件的Data的時候那再來看會不會需要再做下一階段的制度化的處理所以我們還是希望爭取說讓我們可以先用獎勵的方式如果委員要用這個附帶決的方式的話我們也是同意的委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10747.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
10766.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
這條跟前面16條16條之一是連動的昨天的討論其實蠻深入的大家都認為應該要給家長彈性事實上如果前面你放寬到8歲的時候昨天有共識有放寬到8歲這一條就可以附帶決議好不好那就合併你們回去再思考看看因為重點是給家長彈性好我們也希望等一下等一下范雲委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
10772.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
10787.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
我是不希望這個保留啦因為我覺得部長剛講的很清楚他現在其實做的比原來這個法條好很多他是獎勵12歲以下的讓企業可以有兩種錢一個是減工時是有薪的這是一筆錢嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
10788.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
10814.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
另外還有替代人力那這明明是很好的獎勵制度那我們在這邊一定要保留這條然後我昨天也提醒大家第19條沒有罰則如果大家真的的話那你就把罰則加進去要不然這個其實是象徵意義的條文那我們是不是讓就是勞動部把這個獎勵做好那不要用這個方式去交換16-2這16-2好好談就好好談為什麼要用這種交換的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
10823.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
10830.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
有罰則是不是好那沒關係那我還是覺得這個獎勵先行啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
10832.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
10850.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
沒有 所以我說獎勵先行不需要現在入法我說法則各位可以去查一下譬如說嘉義市各地方目前有開罰多少現工法因為地方的政府現在幾乎不敢開罰這個部分所以我們應該要做實質真的能夠做到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
10851.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
10877.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
很少我上次講了MeToo你可以去查性別工作平等法地方政府勞工局處有開罰多少MeToo算是我們的性別工作法的原年那這部分所以我覺得勞動部現在這個獎勵的機制其實是做得更務實的做法那這一我剛剛在講的部分就是大家可以去查各地方政府就說有多關心性工法的落實狀況啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
10879.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
10893.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
好那我的意思是說獎勵這個部分我很支持勞動部現在做法他才能真正的可以領到啦那這個部分我是希望說19條是不是就不要再保留了好那到時候我們討論16條的時候就聚焦16條曾經會委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
10897.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
10919.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
好谢谢因为刚刚教育部也说还会再补充一些资料让我们去理解说六岁以下或六岁以上大概家长他需要的一些协助那这个的部分我们也希望劳动部再收集一下各方的资料然后之后再跟我们持续的讨论然后所以我也希望就保留就可以了谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
10921.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
10944.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
我覺得各黨團的版本差異非常的大像明明上限 申請資格企業規模的限制每個版本都不一樣而且這種擴張設計對財政跟行政成本的衝擊大概就甚可觀可是沒有任何我們預算推估作為基礎而且這條文是強制性規定所有的方案要執行牽扯到產業這麼大規模應該我認為應該還是要先做 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
10949.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
10959.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
階段性的甚至應該要做像剛剛部長提的用獎勵然後等到OK之後再水到渠成 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
10959.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
10988.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
否則如果這個真的讓大家承受不了的話我覺得逼著我們有些企業因為如果前面開放產價 別產價各方面都上來之後那現在馬上要馬上去執行這一條到底能不能承擔甚至最後真的看到用得到嗎也不見得可是如果是鼓勵性質然後而且我覺得各行各業在工作安排差異很大所以我覺得現場到底有沒有辦法說說收 說就說 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
10989.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11012.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
然後呢而且因為你要強制執行最後會不會造成更混亂對勞工到底有沒有有利我覺得應該要去考慮我想減工時育兒的方向我非常支持可是先做事半獎勵之後然後我們逐步去討論才有可能不是每次要討論就是單一的看一個東西都沒有全面去看所以我們還是希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11012.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11032.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
如果但最好當然就是是不是讓勞動部先去做我們的階段性的先做獎勵然後執行之後再回過頭來如果制度OK去修法所以不要希望是這樣的版本不是說我們現在每一個都要全部要到位那到底我們今天討論這一方可是另外一方呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11034.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11051.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
社會整個在進步應該都是要能夠去平衡大家一起往前走而是如果單一考慮一方的時候有沒有可能是傷害到另外一方都要去思考就是看起來說應該是19條20條應該都是保留的好那我們19 20就是保留還有19之1還有19之1 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11062.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11083.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
那接下來就是23-1有沒有意見沒有就保留23-1不是23-1是那個托爾設施那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11094.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11120.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
好那個我可不可以請23之一是不是請我們福祉司先做一個財務部做一個說明好不好好我跟各位委員報告那23條之一的部分在院版的那個條文裡面是有多一個限度內那這三個字的話有是有考慮到有一些狀況是我們的那個支出的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11122.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11150.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
即使讓他有因為支出的減除不要減除到負數那因為在我們在所得稅的那個計算上面來講會考慮到說這個減除加成減除以後不要減除到一個整個是負數的情況所以才有列這個限度那三個字那但是呢他對於這個我們的事業單位減除做企託的這個部分的努力是肯定的也就是說原則上都是200 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11151.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11167.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
200的這樣加乘減除只有差別在說因為擔心有負數的這個情況減到變成負了變成那個公司的整個收入變成負的那個情況所以才會加了限度內這是跟財政部這邊在做請教他們有提醒說這樣的一個情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11171.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11192.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
那個如果是剛剛這個師長這樣子解釋就是限度內是這個意思我在想你們是不是應該可以在立法說明或是文字上面怎麼樣讓他更清楚因為現在鼓勵企業托兒給他最大的支持我想這個應該是政府一致的方向就是我們希望如果企業托兒做得好我相信這個對於這個鼓勵 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11194.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11219.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
年輕朋友因為他很方便他就近他孩子跟著他上下班這個其實是一個很好的措施那如果只是擔心那個複數的問題這個有這個在你們的計算上本來複數這樣好了我建議我覺得條文還是有限度內但是在立法說明上我們把剛才的這個情境給講明清楚比方說我們還是講明說我們會以200 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11222.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11237.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
200%为原则但是因为什么什么原因所以有限度我们把刚刚讲的这个东西在立法说明里面讲清楚可是因为这里面还是会涉及到就是说避免刚才在扣除的时候的那个技术面的问题 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11238.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11261.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
如果是刚才是这个问题因为我们也是请教财政部才比较清楚那如果这个问题我建议还是要把限度内这三个字放在条文里面只是刚刚考虑的那些情境包括比方说我们会以200%为原则来扣除像这样的文字清楚的放在立法说明里面这样好不好用这个方式来做一个互相的说明跟折衷 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11261.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11287.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
好那個我在想就是因為勞動部這邊一直再三的跟我們說明說其實200%就是200只是那限度內三個字就讓人家覺得有一點疑慮那當然勞動部這邊有提到說限度內三個字是為了預防扣減之後有負數的問題但我覺得是不是就像玉敏委員說的可以用一些文字來表達就是說當你 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11288.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11316.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
沒有意思就是當你沒有負數的就是說當你扣減的當你扣就是說你扣減的結正常來說就是你不要有限度那三個字我們在立法說明裡面來處理這個事情好不好我覺得因為其實就條文的體力不可能不適合在裡面像這種抵稅的條款裡面不適合因為像相關其實有蠻多抵稅的條款恐怕不是去做這種非常情境的說明我就我覺得就比較適合在立法說明裡面我們把他話講清楚然後再給委員看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11316.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11337.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
大家覺得OK有沒有清楚的表達我們的意思或大家期待的意思這樣子好OK好我們對然後我們也保留我們拿回去再進一步討論謝謝就是根據你們拿出來的版本再進一步討論謝謝好23條之一保留好 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11341.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11368.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
那性別平等工作法部分條文修正草案等117案另擇期繼續審查現在進行就業保險法部分條文修正草案等90案第二輪審查每條條文先請行政單位說明接著請委員表示意見好 我們休息五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11371.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11372.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
因為沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11397.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11402.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
那個焦點核心的美感對啊所以其實你性工法你這裏我全部都保留嗯 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11411.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11412.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
对啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11427.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11444.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
我覺得我們好像應該還是先不這樣但是我們就是人在面前所以你們都可以補充一下因為我覺得只有我們兩個人都可以補充一下因為這邊源頭沒感應所以我們都可以補充一下你接受吧可是我覺得他今天節目結束了他也補充一下對啊 補充一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11455.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11462.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
因為我等一下可能就放了對啊對啊,再留下來對啊,我覺得應該有應該有因為他們很堅持啊其實對啊好 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11478.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11479.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
這裏有個大廈。這裏是大廈。 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11493.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11512.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
然後我們希望比較可能在這個時候還要運出一些健康的這兩個建築,對,那進化的都會划得很快,然後這兩個建築也都會划得很快,然後這兩個建築也都會划得很快,然後這兩個建築也都會划得很快,然後這兩個建築也都會划得很快, |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11520.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11522.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
中文字幕志愿者 李宗盛 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11534.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11536.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
好,那我們再等一下一下。 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11556.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11556.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
參議院主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11573.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11574.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
對呀比較知道現場的那個狀況對呀 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11602.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11602.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
好啊 好啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11620.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11620.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
民眾黨其實都 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11644.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11656.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
他們的委員都是防備 就是你跟他說是防備 他們是不可以的你看他自己的表文 他就主動講說要剪掉那個補償金我的理由他們現在的感受 運動起來是這樣然後他們兩個的委員比較不會在什麼產創啊 平均體育委員會比較不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11667.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11670.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
他們未服的可能一就是一 二就是二 規定多好多 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
11697.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
11699.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
有些文字留著 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
11725.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
11725.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
11766.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
11769.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
現在繼續開會 現在就舊寶法第二輪做討論剛剛舊寶法保留的第十條 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
11785.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
11812.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
來 行政部門第10條就報法那個第10條是包括失業給付的等待期由14天縮短為7天的部分勞動部是同意的然後再來就是我們的第4款 第一項第4款有關育嬰留職停薪今天配合性供法的規定委員有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
11814.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
11819.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
就是我們剛才第一輪就已經討論過就是我們第10條第11條第19條之3跟第32條都是連帶的所以還是保留謝謝第10條跟第11條19之3跟32還有呢32我有沒有意見沒有的話這4條就保留那 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
11844.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
11867.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
接下來是6條好 謝謝就是本行認為原住民除了受雇者 才面臨非典型就業比例高且失業或尋職期間駕場的困境那如果說將原住民納入與中高齡身心障礙者相同的特殊對象的話 我覺得可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
11868.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
11869.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
那行政部門要不要再說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
11883.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
11902.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
是那就是針對原民的部分事業給付要延長到9個月的部分那我們對於事業給付目前是6個月那對於45歲以上或身障的人因為他的在就業困難或者是事業奏取比較長所以我們就延長到 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
11904.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
11930.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
9個月喔那對於原民身份的失業級是不是要延長這個部分喔還是要看他在就業有沒有比較困難喔不過依照我們原民會在113年原住民族就業狀況調查顯示喔那原住民的平均失業週期是16.61週喔那甚至比較起113年整體的就業平均失業週期是20.77還是要低喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
11933.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
11958.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
所以對於原住民族說要延長失業給付期間的這個部分我們還是希望能夠維持現行的規定尤其是我們擔心的是失業給付的目的是要讓勞工趕快回到職場如果延長了失業給付的期間我們擔心他會有給付依賴的問題所以以上說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
11967.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
11977.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
維持原條文維持原條文好那我們的16條就維持現行條文那接下來18也是如昭偉 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
11980.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
11993.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
為了鼓勵原住民失業者能夠積極重返職場應該縮短及提早就業津貼的一個門檻所以我們想說它的加本門檻能不能從三個月降到一個月來穩定它的就業經濟誘因 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
11998.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12019.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
來行政部的說明是我們替我直接講出津貼的目的是要鼓勵勞工他在就業穩定工作並且給他津貼那對原民的從三個月降到一個月的家保年資的部分我們也擔心會衍生短暫就業來領取津貼的到的危險 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12020.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12034.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
那所以不令他不利他的穩定就業而且比較其他弱勢的勞工也都會要求比照原因喔那所以我們建議維持這個部分不以爭定喔那就是王志勛我也有一個提案喔說 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12036.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12061.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
希望把提早就業講座今天由現行的50%提高到60%的這個部分那這個部分我們考量它是可以鼓勵失業的被保險人積極來求職重新來重返職場穩定他就業所以這個部分是我們是同意的支持希望依照王振旭委員這個提案修正動議來通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12063.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12084.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
范委員我跟黃秀芳委員有一個修正動議那這其實也是有跟勞工團體討論因為原本我最早是想修十三條就是勞工團體希望能夠降低一些就是完全不適合的工作的尋職業務的壓力但是跟勞動部溝通之後了解勞動部覺得這一次不要修正那個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12085.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12112.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
那所以我就改修正這個就是讓提早就業獎助津貼提高等於就是鼓勵他就是那個有這樣子的一個提早就業獎助那原本是50%那增加10%到10%那希望能夠適度提升給付水準一方面也保障失業勞工的權益另一方面就維持現行的尋職義務的前提以上行政部門 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12115.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12127.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
修正那個不是王振興委員而是范瑩委員照范瑩委員的提案來通過那我們就按照黃秀芳委員提案的修正動議通過接下來我們劇情19-2 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12140.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12157.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
為了鼓勵我們就是現在的一個新生兒的狀況就是來減輕我們原住民勞工對月的那個負擔因為我們的平均薪資所長期給予全體國民所以如果透過這個加緊運營流停的津貼可以減輕原住民父母在 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12158.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12171.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
因為其間的經濟壓力若是賴總統原住民政策中有關零到六歲國家一起養2.0那個承諾所以我提了這個原住民錢上津貼加給百分之十有政府負擔的這樣一個徵休請行政部門來回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12179.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12195.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
來請說明是我們的育嬰流子停運津貼是比照事業給付的60%最長六個月來發給那為了就是在強化他們的經濟支持我們從政府公務預算裡面加加給20%那我們對於鼓勵 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12198.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12218.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
就是勞工來育嬰或者是說強化他們的經濟支持這個部分尤其是社會保險沒有針對族群做不同的處理所以有關提案說要針對包括原民包括低收入戶或是單親的或者是身障者 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12220.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12243.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
從百分之八十要變成再加給到百分之二十或者是九十的這個部分這個會涉及到政府的財政負擔或者是涉及到有關條件包括排戶的等等的這個規定而且這一個部分也跟就是就是就業保險的主管機關跟勞動部的就業保險的部分是沒有關係的所以我們希望這個部分就是不以爭定 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12246.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12269.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
不好意思因為第一名我不在那剛才我們黨黨的那個建議就是說我們19-2跟剛才我所說的4條一起保留不好意思對對對對好謝謝小委員有沒有意見沒有就是我們19-2也是保留那接下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12275.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12288.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
接下來是十九十三 剛有講要保留那接下來二十二十條喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12293.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12322.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
是配合剛剛講第11條失業給付的等待期有14天要縮短為7天的部分那在11條的部分其實勞動部是同意的那雖然會涉及到其他的款項因為這樣子保留那所以在20條的部分既然那個14變7天沒有意見是這個部分20條包括待會的25條可不可以就這樣讓他就是通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12323.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12335.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
通過嗎招委是因為就是20、25跟11是連動的嘛所以這三條就一起保留11、20跟25不是 11、20跟25是對嘛那個然後20、25都保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12353.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12374.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
好一個20條那個8日如果沒有意見我們就單條20條就先過吧就不用保留20條好不好就少保留一點我們在這邊做這麼久應該要有一些共識如果沒有影響的話沒有影響那只有一個8而已15日改成8日這個很好啊就少保留一條啦其他你保留我們沒意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12385.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12408.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
不好意思他們還是交代說要保留所以20那25呢也是保留嗎來30代議委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12415.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12431.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
30條這個部分因為現行的制度要求勞工在失業在認定期間必須要提出要持續提出求職證明那當然我們知道這個制度是希望勞工持續求職那能夠達到一個促進就業的效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12432.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12457.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
那但是以就業服務法24條所指的弱勢的失業者已經有些是中高齡身心障礙等那實務上反而會形成就是比較高的負擔那這些弱勢的夥伴他在就業市場中其實就已經面臨這個結構性的不利那可是如果這個制度就一再的要求他頻繁求職然後一再的要求他提出證明 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12457.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12474.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
那事實上就是我們跟勞工團裡討論的結果那他們的經驗看到就是他會在這個挫折中就不斷地累積失敗跟挫折那對他的心理壓力其實是越來越大那促進就業的效果很有限 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12475.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12502.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
所以這個修法我們並不是要全面放寬我們是希望維持目前的架構那只是說針對很弱勢原本就已經是身心障礙中高齡等這個弱勢的求職者失業再認定的部分是不是可以適度的降低門檻譬如他提出至少一次的求職證明那就能夠維持這個給付的資格那實質提供穩定他們的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12503.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12529.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
就是狀態那這個部分因為有些人可能就會屬於長期就是失業的狀態那你這邊這個部分就是看看勞動部的那個態度覺得怎麼樣勞動部是那謝謝我們范委員的這個指教我想這個部分的提案利益是非常良善的那只是說我們回到就業保險法他的一個制度的設計仍然以促進就業為優先 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12530.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12553.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
而不是讓他一旦失業就立即離職失業給付而就我們目前實務在操作過程當中我們認定這一些不管是24救福法24條的特定對象或者一般的失業民眾他的所謂的這個求職紀錄呢舉凡他用郵遞的方式去遞送出他的一個履歷表去應徵工作或者是線上投遞履歷或者是實際的到 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12555.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12573.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
這個求職單位去做這個應徵等等這些都是我們目前可以多元認列作為求職紀錄的一環所以實務上來說一個月兩次的求職行為的這樣子的一個規範實務上並沒有什麼樣子的一個疑慮或者是爭議性是不是還是請委員可以同意支持維持目前的一個條文謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12575.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12590.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
蔡英文我是知道你們這次並沒有打算要修這個部分根據我們現在講的是弱勢特別包含家庭暴力被害人等等所以我想如果您不想 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12591.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12619.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
休這條的話還沒有準備好是不是可以有一個附帶決議你針對這些人的身心壓力還有我們這邊所講的這個是辦理失業在認定時就是有一些比較精確的資料好不好覺得這樣是有效的可以促進他們就業因為如果根本無效你其實就是塗增他的身心的狀況的一個不良的狀況要不然就是形式主義就是叫他要去哪裡求職 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12621.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
12640.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
好不好是不是可以寫一個附帶決議好不好用附帶決議來達成剛剛委員剛才講的這樣子的目的有一些進展吼那就維持第三條就維持先行條文附帶決議那接下來三十二是保留嘛三十三之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
12647.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
12674.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
33-1是委員提案是為了增訂第10條的修正條文是照顧津貼為幾戶項目的申請津貼應備的文件跟程序那因為第10條保留所以第10條保留這條是保留好那就33-1也是保留那就業保險法部分條文修正草案等90案另擇期繼續審查本次會議到此結束現在散會 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
12680.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
12681.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
精神肯定 |