| IVOD_ID |
17543 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17543 |
| 日期 |
2026-06-24 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-36-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第20次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
20 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第20次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2026-06-24T08:33:51+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-06-24T11:29:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
02:55:09 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8d241381c4f8c7fc0f3d5f6e9ef4dbd4584155094b763405ed7231b3d2e2f92ab57a08c2eeb7b3905ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-06-24T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請考試院秘書長、銓敘部部長、行政院人事行政總處、教育部、勞動部針對「我國育嬰留職停薪實施成效與擴大育嬰津貼政策」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
二、併案審查
（一）委員羅智強等19人擬具「公教人員保險法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。
（二）委員黃健豪等18人擬具「公教人員保險法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。
（三）委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「公教人員保險法第十二條及第三十五條條文修正草案」案。
（四）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「公教人員保險法部分條文修正草案」案。
（五）委員翁曉玲等18人擬具「公教人員保險法第三十五條及第五十一條條文修正草案」案。
【第（五）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】
【開會事由二僅進行詢答】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:33:51 - 11:29:00 |
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報告委員會初席委員八人已足法定人數請主席宣布開會各位委員還有今天列席的官員們大家好我們就現在開會首先先進行報告事項請先宣讀上次的會議議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1597.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1618.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
立法院第十一屆第五會期司法及法治委員會第十九次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國一百一十五年六月十七日星期三上午九十三分至十二十三分地點本院紅樓三零二會議室出席委員陳昭資委員等十二人請教委員林沛翔委員一人列席委員鄭正琴委員等九人列席官員法務部 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1619.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1646.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
常務司長馮誠等人主席莊昭及委員瑞雄報告事項宣讀上次會議議事錄決定確定討論事項一 併刊審查委員賴世保等27人擬據律師法增訂第35條之一第35條之二及第35條之三條文草案等事案二 併刊審查行政院罕經審議律師法部分條文修正草案等罷案本次會議有委員陳昭之委員等二人提出質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1647.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1661.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
委員 蔡其昌等四人提出書面質詢決議一 報告及詢答完畢二 第一案及第二案均另定期繼續審查三 委員質詢時要求提供相關資料或以書面答覆者請相關機關盡速送交個別委員及本會宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1664.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1680.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
好請問在座兩位委員我們上次會議議事錄有沒有錯誤或遺漏沒有的話我們就議事錄確定那接著我就先介紹現在到場的委員以及應邀列席官員那首先是林沛翔委員然後還有這個陳昭芝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1681.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1687.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
接著我介紹應邀立席官員今天到場的有考試院的副秘書長吳副秘書長以及勞動部政務次長李建宏理政次 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1700.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1726.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
那麼其他的沒有介紹的列席代表那就請參閱名單然後本席不再逐一介紹並且列入公報記錄那本次議程的排定有兩個一個是專題報告我國育嬰留職停薪的實施成效與擴大育嬰津貼政策那以及討論事項就並按審查委員羅志強等19人所拟據的公教人員保險法第35條條文修正草案等5案 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1727.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1754.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
那麼我們今天討論事項就請進行詢答好那我們就先進行委員提案說明那每位委員有發言三分鐘的時間那麼我們接下來就是可能請那個潘翔委員可以先代替我當主席然後我先進行提案說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1769.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1793.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
好 請提案人翁曉琳委員進行提案說明謝謝主席 那麼在座的各位委員同仁以及所列席的各位官員 大家好那麼今天曉琳站在這裡呢 主要是要向各位說明有本席以及多位委員所共同提出的公教人員保險法第35條以及第51條條文修正案 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1794.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1815.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
還有就是公教人員保險法第12條及第35條條文修正草案那其實這項修法的出發點是希望在青年世代面臨巨大的職場以及經濟壓力的同時我們可以讓祖父母加入成為家庭育兒最強大的後盾之一能夠讓年輕人更勇於去承擔生養的責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1820.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1843.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那除此之外本席今天也要從社會保險法理以及人事法制的專業角度來論述這項修正案的必要性那麼首先是留職停薪的制度以及保險給付的斷裂因為在考試院與全序部其實在民國110年就修訂了公務人員留職停薪辦法那麼當時就已經規範了照顧三歲以下的 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1844.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1852.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
孫子女得基於一定的特別的條件可以申請留職停薪的預算價制度然而 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1853.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1857.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
因為當時可以遇孫的條件非常嚴格那麼同時現在的辦法沒有這個有一個缺失就是他給了假但是卻不給今天所以讓這個權利形同是真空的那當公教同仁因為協助子女照顧孫子女而辦理留職停薪的時候他的階段性的中斷工作投入照顧勞動的實質狀態與養育子女基本上是完全無益的 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1880.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1892.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
但是他卻不能夠去請領相關的津貼那第二個是從保險事故對等性與社會保險公平性的原則來看現在的公保法的第12條與第135條那麼將現金給付的法定保險事故僅局限於養育子女 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1900.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
1922.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
但是在高齡化與少子化並存的現在社會其實主父母已經成為實質的共同照顧者因此本席提案修正第12條與第35條能夠正式將遇孫留職停薪增訂為法定的保險事故以及給付的事故的項目那麼這才是真正落實社會保險的公平原則與風風險分擔的功能 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
1925.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
1952.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
最後是公務體系的穩定與人力資源的彈性調配那麼我們在第35條第三項裡面也特別增訂了房幣的配套措施明確規範如果有同時撫育子女或孫子女兩人以上者可仍然是以勤領一人的津貼為限以確保公保準備金的財務紀律不會造成財政的無限外溢所以各位同仁我們想友善職場的建立不能夠只是走半套 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
1952.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
1974.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
用健全的公保法制给予实际承担隔代教养的公教同仁们实质的支持才能够让公教人力在职场冲刺以及家庭照顾之间获得更弹性的制度安全感那么在此也恳请诸位委员能够支持本席所提的修法案以上谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
1987.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
1992.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那麼接下來我們請台灣民眾黨黨團代表王翔 王委員來提案說明主席 各位與會者 大家早安那我這邊要針對這個提案跟大家做一些報告那這次我們修的主要是公人保險法第三條 第十二條跟第三十五條 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2012.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2032.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
大家知道我們現在針對適用勞動法相關的從業人員我們正在針對性供法跟救保法的部分進行修法的動作我們也同步公務人員這個部分我們也在公務員保險法這邊來做修正修正的重點大概有幾個第一個就是第三條的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2033.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2051.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我們現在過去就叫育嬰留庭我們現在希望把它都證明為育兒留庭因為等一下會說到我們會把年紀由過去的三歲拉到六歲這是第一個那第二個就是有關於保險給付的比例的部分那其實在現在那個那邊舊保法的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2051.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2078.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
其實我們也在提那我們都希望過去這個六成能夠適度的提升那現在救保法那邊呢勞動部他另外兩成是用補助的方式來做處理這幾天我也跟勞動部今天次長也在我們有做了一些討論那當然勞動部希望說那兩成繼續用補助的方式來做處理不過本席在這邊我們還是希望依法能夠把它調升因為四月緊複跟這個育兒留庭這個功能性並不一致 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2079.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2105.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
並不一定要站在同樣的比例上面所以這次我們在12條的部分我們也希望今天的比例能夠拉高從過去的六成我們希望把它拉到八成能夠跟那邊適用救保的老公朋友的今天數目是一樣的另外就是我剛剛說的過去我們都稱為譽嬰留庭希望是在三歲以下不過現在以 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2105.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2133.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
台灣這個少子女化的狀況來說我們希望它能夠全面適用變成一個育兒流體所以在第35條的部分我們也把育嬰的字樣變成育兒從養育三年提升到六年以上報告 謝謝大家好 謝謝王委員那麼接下來我們就請機關代表來報告每位發言時間三分鐘首先我們先請考試院的吳副秘書長來進行報告 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2141.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2159.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
主席 各位委員 各位女士先生 大家早安那感謝龜委員長期以來對於考試院各項施政跟重大法案的支持那以下僅就今天的專題報告我國育嬰留職停薪實施成效跟擴大育嬰津貼政策的部分 簡要的做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2159.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2182.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
那首先在近年來公務人員育嬰留職停薪制度改革以及實施成效的部分那為因應我國少子女化的問題減輕公務人員育兒的負擔並鼓勵雙親共同擔任育兒的責任從民國110年起考試院已經陸續修正了公務人員留職停薪辦法等這邊有六大項的法規跟法律案 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2183.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2209.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那的相關規定允許配偶雙方可以同時辦理育嬰留職停薪而且可以同時請領同一子女的育嬰留職停薪的津貼也得延遲這個繳付退伏基金費用等等那除了養育子女之外呢為照顧三歲以下的孫子女呢也可以申請留職停薪那麼在回復回職復薪的時候呢只要能夠在升任當天任職呢也可以在留職停薪期間來 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2210.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2213.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
參加升遷 同時也優化因為育嬰回職復興後的休假及考資年資並計等等的相關規範那在統計的部分 在最近5年呢 從110年到114年呢申請這個育嬰 育孫的這樣子 包括收養兒童的 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2230.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2246.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
留職挺薪的人次呢這個數據的部分請各位委員參閱那如果進一步統計這個男女性育嬰育孫的留職挺薪的情形呢目前女性申請的比例呢雖然還是較高但是男性公務人員申請的 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2247.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2251.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
這個比例從110年的14.02%到114年已經提高到20.83%所以這個相關的改革措施對於提升男性公務人員申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2263.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2273.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
育嬰孫留職停薪的這個意願是有所注意的那另外我們在育孫留職停薪的這個申請案在110年、121年、112年是各有一人次申請結均為女性那114年呢這個留庭辦法又再修正放寬了育孫留職停薪的相關的限制等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2287.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2313.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
那這些的相關規定的修正呢對於這個營造更友善的這樣子的一個生養環境呢都有正面的一個功效那在擴大育嬰津貼政策的部分呢現行的規定請各位參與在擴大政策的面向當中主要是配合目前推動人口對策的一個新戰略然後基於各執域社會保險應該一致的原則那考試院已經拟據了公保法部分條文的修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2314.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2339.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
那這個相關的內容呢等下在全區部的報告裡面也會做更詳細的一個說明那這個法案的部分我們已經在6月15號喊請行政院來會嫌那行政院完成會嫌程序之後我們就會盡速的來送貴院審議那這個部分後面大概有一些我們另外也修正了公務人員的考試法還有公務人員的任用法的相關規定也都是配合這一次的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2342.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2351.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
這個我們推動人口對策的新戰略的部分那相關的內容也請各位委員來參閱那也謝謝各位委員的支持那以上報告進行各位委員指教好 謝謝吳副秘書長那接下來我們請市部長來進行報告群衆部市部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2361.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2389.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
主席各位委員長好我想考試院跟存居部就有關公務人員育嬰留庭的家庭支持部分其實過去在很多制度上做了很多變革長期以來做非常非常多支持性的一個改變包括我們本來都在育嬰但是我們把育嬰也它本來就是包括小孩子跟孫子大概往這邊一直都在走剛剛我們副部長已經大概就制度面做一些介紹那這裡面也包括說我們去年剛修正的考積法 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2389.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2414.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
也是把譬如說如果你是屬於育嬰留庭的一個部分本來你是年終 是另一考期是半年我們也把兩次可以算成一次的這個年終考期有利於他未來那個升遷的一個計算所以考試院跟全學院這部分是積極支持這整個育嬰留庭的一個制度家庭支持的部分那實際的成果呢大概剛剛我們副書長也報告過 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2416.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2444.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
目前還是以女性申請為主不過申請人數確實是逐年下降逐年下降應該是我們猜測原因一定是跟生的小孩子比較少有關因為你一定要生小孩子才能申請嘛那大概目前男性已經申請的比例已經增加到20%逐年在上升中這個我們也是樂於見到這樣一個狀況那換句話講女性的公務人員只要有生育幾乎都會申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2445.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2456.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
劉庭只是說我們劉庭不限次數他可能不是一次請足有各自各樣的一個方式至於未來繼續要做的也就剛我們副部長講的考試院是配合整個國家的人口 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2457.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2479.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
人口對策新戰略我們也修了公保法這公保法在今年的6月11號考試院會通過因為這公保必須要彙選我們叫公交保險必須要彙選行政院所以現在在彙選行政院中這裡面剛剛有委員提到這次委員提到一些不同的修正版本其實跟我們裡面談的一個部分幾乎都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2480.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2509.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
大致上都是雷同我簡單做一個說明譬如像說涉及到到底那個要用育兒還是育嬰這個字眼因為確實公教這部分稍微比較不一樣說我們修正方式就是保留原來的育嬰這個字眼那括號加一個兒大概就是能夠涵蓋不管是從育我們特性包括孫子也就可以進來所以相關的法律條文我們大概至於這一部分大概都是這樣修正那至於延長請問的時間我們可以請你到這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2510.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2538.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
子女滿七歲值那這個意思就是跟委的提案其實立法意思是一樣只是文字不一樣那我還是簡單做一個補充說明因為整個公保法的概念都是來自都是要跟性別工作平等法跟就業保險法做一致性的一個搭配所以很多文字其實兩邊大概都採用一致的一個文字我做這樣一個說明那至於那個給付月數呢我們也是搭配用6加3的一個方式做修正那另外一個我們比較這一次順道做修正的是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2539.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2567.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
因為我們確實有公務人員他的投保金額可能低於最低工資因為我們是用保風可能換上本風低所以我們這一次也修法就是說最少就是以最低工資作為投保的一個基準那這種這個差額的部分就通通是由這個主管機關編列預算來補充我想以上做這樣一個補充的說明至於那個委員們的一個提案如果有真正到審查提案的時候要我們部裡面再來表示一個意見 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2570.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2573.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
主席 各位委員以下勞動部就針對勞動部辦理運流止停薪的成效還有未來的經濟向各位委員說明我國創立運流停制度在勞工部分是從91年開始的 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2598.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2622.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
由於過去這幾年來受雇勞工對於要兼顧工作跟育兒的時間的彈性需求增加所以有經歷了兩個階段的變革第一就是在110年把它改成可以用月為單位來申請第二階段就從今年的1月1號開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2623.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2651.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
我們勞動部在修改相關的辦法可以把它改成用日為單位來申請運營流停可是天數為了兼顧不要讓僱主的調度能力影響他所以是30天那雙清總共60天這兩階段另外剛剛主席有提到所謂的兩層我們是用公務預算從110年開始兩層用公務預算來補助這是主要的變革那成效部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2654.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2667.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
從九十一年開始到現在今年的五月為止總共有領取受惠這個運流挺經貼的人數已經多達這個一百二十六萬七千多人那其中 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2669.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2691.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
當然多數都是女性女性大概有一百萬三千多人那合幅的總金額大概已經高達這個一千三百零七億那這是今天的部分那另外在一百一十一年七月開始因為有公務預算加給兩成的薪資補助那根據統計從那一年開始的四年後 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2692.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2710.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
也就到114年的6月申請暈流停津貼的人數是九萬兩千多人跟開辦的前一年增加了兩萬一千多人增加幅度兩成九那麼尤其男性增加了兩萬四千多人增加了96% |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2711.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2725.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
表示男性對這個薪資多兩成補助的需求是更明顯的那另外特別報今年1月開始的這個以日申請與留庭的彈性制度到今年5月為止總共人數的話有11950人佔所有申請比數的40.9% |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2732.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2751.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
而且是足院成長其中男性是48.4%女性51.6%代表這個已經符合我們原本期待達成的政策目標也就是說希望能夠透過讓男性跟女性都能夠來共同來分擔照顧小孩的這個責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2752.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2766.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
那另外我們也已經在未來經濟方面我們已經提出性別平等工作法的修正草案那麼就是希望能夠從三歲延長到六歲而且名稱改為育兒留庭津貼擴大這個協助的對象範圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2769.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2785.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
那麼而且在這個津貼方面我們也是希望能夠已經修法希望能夠朝向往6加3的方向來努力那最後有一個配套我們希望能夠避免中小企業僱主 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2786.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2805.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
人力調度的影響太大所以我們有一個200人以下企業可以來跟我們勞動部申請所謂職代津貼就請同事來幫忙或者是另外請臨時的外部替代人力的津貼那我們如果這個修法順利希望明年1月號開始實施以上說明 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2808.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2823.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
謝謝李政次的說明不過就是因為你們您今天這個貴部所提供的報告其實相對就是簡單很多裡面很多您剛提到的數據都沒有是不是可以麻煩會後請這個勞動部可以再提供剛剛次長所報告的這一份資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2824.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2843.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
就是您可以看一下你們經濟勞動部所提供的書面報告裡面內容相對簡單沒有您剛剛提到的那些數字對但是我覺得那些資料對我們來說都很重要也很寶貴因為可以和其他公務機關一起做一個對比好那是好沒關係好可以會後再 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2844.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2859.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
再給我們四委會的委員們那接下來就是說因為今天時間的關係所以其他的機關我們就可能不再進行報告不曉得在場的有沒有哪個機關想要再進行狗頭補充說明的 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2860.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2886.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
特別要進行口頭普通說明如果沒有的話那就其餘提出的書面報告我們就請各位參閱並且列入公報記錄現在就開始進行詢答原則上本會委員詢納時間為8分鐘必要時得延長2分鐘非本會委員詢納時間為5分鐘並不再延長上午10點30分截止發言登記我們接下來就請登記第一位的林沛翔委員來進行詢答 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2899.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2907.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
好謝謝主席有請我們吳副秘書長跟我們的施部長好有請吳副秘跟施部長委員長 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2914.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2932.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
主席 各位列席官員今天本席要談的是我國的育嬰留職停薪制度以及背後更深層的問題也就是我們國家的人才危機首先本席必須肯定政府願意推動相關的法規修正也願意增加軍工教育 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2933.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2949.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
叫育嬰留庭的保障畢竟軍人、警察、消防員、老師、公務員這些人都是站在第一線來維持我們國家的正常運作政府願意照顧他們的家庭那我們當然會支持但是我也想請問我們的副秘書長跟部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
2956.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
2979.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
你們真的有看見第一線軍工教人員的處境嗎因為今天台灣面臨的問題不是只有少子化而已更嚴重的是我們現在正面臨整個公共部門人才流失的危機現在公務機關缺人學校缺老師警消長期人力吃緊國軍招募一年比一年困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
2980.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3004.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
越來越多年輕人不願意投入軍公教體系更不敢進入體系之後生孩子原因其實大家都知道因為大家看到的是什麼高工時高責任高壓力但是相應對的福利跟待遇卻沒有同步提升所以本席認為少子化背後反映的其實還是待遇問題人才荒背後反映的更是待遇問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3005.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3026.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
所以這邊我們就要請教考試院跟程序部這一次所行政院跟考試院配合人口政策所提出的公保法、公認法、公考法與軍保法修正草案那如果津貼修法通過一位基層公務員申請育嬰留庭每個月到底能夠領多少津貼 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3030.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3043.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
能連接當然跟他是職務有關係譬如說他以他的奉典有關係取中衛術的話能不能直接在這邊跟全國軍公教家庭跟我們講一下一個月實際能領多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3044.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3071.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
中位數我現在真的沒有辦法回答委員這個會後的時候我們可以部裡面來嘗試算一下提供給委員好不好好因為你要我們如果是知道一個實際的數據的話對於政策的推動而且對於民眾民心的穩定是有絕對幫助的那如果今天我把他在這邊提出來就表示說我後面代表的軍公教體系他們很關心這一點那麻煩部長會後的時候我們來提供這個資料好不好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3074.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3082.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
那另外我想請問現在符合育嬰留庭資格的軍公教人員有多少人 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3084.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3105.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
符合他只要有那個要養三歲以下的這個子女他就符合可是有多少人你們有做過一個統計嗎因為我們只有說申請人數的統計那申請人數是多少我印象中我們的報告的後面大概三千多申請人數應該是三千到四千人這中間每年不一 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3106.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3122.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
老實說這樣子的話因為我想帶出來一個很實際的數據是申請率是多少假設說只有3000多人可是有6萬人符合這個資格那申請率不到5%吧所以說我們必須要知道實際的數據這點來講我覺得情緒部跟我們的考試院應該去把它查清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3129.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3143.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
為什麼會這樣講如果申請率不好的話如果我剛剛講三千人只有六萬人有資格只有三千人申請那只到百分之五的話那我們就要更進步做另外一個調查為什麼很多符合資格的人最後沒有申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3144.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3160.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
因為這樣我們才知道問題嘛我們不能只是給我們一個數字說這看起來有三千多人受益但是事實上來講符合資格的人如果只是四千人那有三千人那我們恭喜但是全國軍公教加起來應該不只是只有四千人有三歲以下的小孩吧這個我覺得這個數字數字會說話 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3163.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3175.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
那我覺得部長跟副秘書長這點我們還蠻重要的請你們真的要審慎面對好吧我是不是可以跟委員長解釋一下我們的報告的有兩張副表裡面因為我們大概現在只能推過是女性 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3176.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3198.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
就女性如果是生育她就可以申請那個那個那個育嬰給付嘛這個人數當分母那有多少女性申請留庭當分子這中間不完全正確啦不過我們的我們大致上的推估大部分只要是女性大概都會申請育嬰留庭但是因為有可能有男性 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3199.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3218.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
我會認為這個數字還是需要去查清楚因為我們要知道這個制度這個政策下去下去執行率多高是否真的有感而且是否真的有幫助還是說只是我們拿出一個政策出來有一點數字之後就拿出來跟大家講我們不希望看到這樣的事情我不是預設立場說你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3220.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3236.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
我知道但是我必須在這邊語重心長把這句話講出來因為我們希望是看到這個制度是對於現在的狀況是有幫助的因為我們說真的現在問題不是有沒有制度而是制度能不能用因為剛剛這數字沒有出來的話我有聽到一些軍公教基層人員在反應說 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3237.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3259.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
申請育嬰留庭不只是填一張表格這麼簡單他們要擔心的是什麼單位缺人擔心我的同儕的工作量增加擔心長官的觀感甚至擔心未來的考機擔心升遷擔心回來之後位子還在不在更現實的事情是什麼許很多人請了育嬰留庭之後他家庭的收入立刻大幅下降 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3259.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3289.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
那有些基層同仁領到的津貼甚至比基本工資還要低那我想請問我們的考試院跟全序部這些問題你們是否有掌握我跟委員剛剛提到問題我們都掌握所以這一次特別最後一個問題有人可能比最低工資低所以我們這次修的法裡面就明文規定未來的投保的一個金額不得低就是以如果你是低於最低工資就是以最低工資算那差額就是由那個我們那個政府來 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3289.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3292.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
就是這個基金來主管機關來編預算來補差額 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3295.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3319.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
那前面的一些議題大概我們的相關的制度大概都有做一些針對這一點本席給你肯定因為我們不希望說連公務人員都只能領到比公務人員當他做那個育嬰留庭的時候他們領到的薪資居然比基本工資還低的時候那就變成是說這是我們國家體制對公務人員對我們自己本身的對我們自己本身賴以為生的螺絲釘都是這麼的不友善 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3320.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3341.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
這是會投射一個印象出去說現在的政府對公務體系的每個同仁是不尊重的這個很危險這個是非常危險的事情所以因為我們也剛剛委員提到說我們是不是夠了解這個地方我們經常也有地方跟我一些意見所以我們就這一次修法一併把它放進去所以本席在剛開始的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3342.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3357.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
肯定的原因在這裡但是我們希望說我們會繼續如果只是到基本工資的話那其實滿國神路一雙也是一種羞辱啦老實講如果只是到基本工資我想這邊有很多公務人員在這邊如果只到基本工資其實那也算是另外一種如果與時俱進我們等一下會提到這個東西好 再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3361.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3389.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
如果這次規劃說如果雙清通勤滿六個月的育嬰留庭那可以再額外勤領三個月那這個方向本期是樂見的但是我也要問說這個政策評估做了嗎這個政策評估會不會對於說本身的業務就是剛剛江前面提到的雖然剛剛前面提到的是他們擔心的事情也是所有人擔心的事情像工作量之類的這個政策評估有做嗎如果說多請三個月我們有擲貸的一個制度啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3389.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3412.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
我們政府部門本來就有職貸的制度就是說如果有這樣一個狀況機關就可以請職貸那我們全區部門放寬請職貸了越來越放寬這樣機關也樂於支持這個事情下一個題目我希望考試院能夠給我們很確切的答案或是區部給我們很確切的答案目前軍公教御嬰留庭平均請領多久目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3415.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3434.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
平均因為我們玉英劉維廷應該這樣子我們他可以分次勤我們不是一次勤他可以分好幾次勤所以這個我們就需要統計去了解我們大概公部門很難有一個經驗我們目前正在有一個案子想要去了解這個事情因為我也想知道說到底有多少人勤滿六個月啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3436.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3451.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
對這有答案嗎目前我們要從資料庫裡面去撈用人去追這就是我覺得考試院應該要我們平均是領5.5個月的津貼因為又有多少家庭未來有能力符合夫妻雙方都請滿6個月的條件呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3453.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3478.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
這個其實我認為考試院真的應該答案因為我們政策不能看理想的情境而已我們必須面對現實現在一個年輕家庭要面對的是什麼其實蠻殘酷的我們要面對房貸 我們要面對房租我們要面對奶粉 我們要面對調布我們還要面對托育費還有持續上升的生活成本過去十年房價漲了 租金漲了物價也漲了 外食費也漲了那如果從組織總住今天再說根據組織總 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3479.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3497.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
根據主計總數的統計台灣近十年的消費者CPI指數累積超過15%那從民眾的主觀感受來看很多家庭其實他們實際上感受到的生活成本增加可能不止15%可能接近20%甚至30%以上在這種情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3499.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3519.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
真的有多少相對來講領的是死薪水的軍公教家庭真的有能力讓夫妻先後請滿六個月的育嬰留庭嗎我跟委員報 剛剛我同事給我一個數字說以公務人員平均是請了五點五個月的那個津貼 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3520.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3537.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
所以因為最多可以請6個月嘛所以他平均他請了5.5個月所以我在這邊要強調就是說我這邊強調我支持育兒家庭我自己有兩個小孩我當然支持像這樣做作風但是我要問的是這個政策是不是真的在解決問題還是只是在創造一個很漂亮的數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3538.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3551.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
因為如果一個年輕老師一個基層軍人一個基層的公務員面對房貸租金物價跟育兒成本的壓力不會因為說今天增加幾百塊幾千塊就忽然有勇氣多生一個孩子 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3552.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3581.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
核心的問題還是在於待遇不管是育嬰津貼公保給付退休保障甚至我們今天討論的各項福利本質上都跟本縫有連動如果本縫偏低所有福利自然跟著偏低育嬰津貼如此退休保障如此公保給付也是如此所以我記得上次質詢的時候我就一直大聲呼籲說軍公教待遇調整應該要法制化而且要隨著物價合理的調整制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3582.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3600.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
因為軍公教真正需要增加的是本縫不是只有補貼不是只有一次性的福利措施而是整體薪資結構的改善否則今天增加育嬰今天明天增加輔助後天增加獎勵結果所有的福利還是建立在相對比較偏低的本縫上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3601.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3629.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
最後面還是無法改善真正人才流失的問題更無法解決所謂的少子化最後我也想請問我們副秘書長跟部長如果政府真正重視人才荒為什麼立法院通過的軍人加薪法案請消退休金加急法案為何現在還是不願意附屬執行軍公教待遇法治化已經討論兩年了為什麼到現在行政院的院版還沒有出來到底卡在哪裡到底要研究多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3632.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3639.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
我跟委員報告因為這些法治的主管機關都是行政院行政院今天有主管來嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3644.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3668.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
好沒關係下次我下次院長質詢的時候我再問一次那我老實講政府一方面說要留產但是另外一方面卻遲遲不願意面對所謂的待遇問題我們現在在社會上看到的是什麼軍公教警消護駕護理師跟專業駕駛這個七個行業是我們每天都遇得到的而且是每天現在都在缺人的 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3668.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3694.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
但是如果說我們待遇不提升那又要留住人才這不是互製相矛盾嗎所以我要再次強調今天我們談的是育嬰留庭制度表面上談的是少子化但是本質上還是在談待遇在談國家的人才政策如果年輕人不願意進來進來之後不敢生生了之後不敢請育嬰留庭那麼問題絕對不是津貼不足而是整個待遇制度跟工作環境上出了問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3694.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3722.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
因此我要求在這邊要求考試院我們學習部行政院人士總處不是只要修福利制度更要重視我們軍公教待遇的改革盡速推動法制化建立合理的本縫成長機制讓待遇調整有制度有依據有預期因為人才留不住年輕人不敢生最後受影響的絕對不是軍公教體系而已是我們整個國家未來的治理能力跟競爭力以上 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3725.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3748.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
謝謝林委員部長跟副秘書可以先回座接下來我們有請陳昭之委員詢答謝謝主席有請勞動部次長然後情緒部部長還有考試院副秘書長有請三位 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3753.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3778.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
那我一邊說 因為剛剛聽 諸位的報告我是 就是想要了解 目前已經存在的所謂的育兒津貼我先請教勞動部的次長 請問你這個育兒津貼因為是育嘛 育的部分嘛 因為你們剛剛的口詞這個用詞都講到生育 但是上次我們現在在育兒就是養育的部分 才會有幾個月的部分請問你們這個發放的對象 有適用那個收養的家庭嗎有適用收養的家庭嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3782.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3798.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
收養孩子的人有沒有適用這個育兒津貼呢?有還是沒有?沒有就檢討你的精神是這樣嘛,要讓大家能夠去養小孩啊,願意養小孩啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3800.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3826.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
生當然是一個意願那生完很重要是養啊養到成年啊你講不出來都沒有齁我幾十年前收一個孩子我完全沒有受惠啦但是我OK的但是我要告訴你們沒有齁這段這麼長時間沒辦法回答主席這個時間好掉喔有沒有有沒有委員如果是法定的收養的話是可以的現在法定收養都有法定有沒有人要照顧孩子呢還要再辛苦養一輩子 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3828.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3854.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
你要納入喔 你要確定那不然再給我一個報告好嗎 次長那經過養 收養小孩那年紀還在規定範圍內的時候OK 有道理嗎是育兒嘛 育兒嘛OK 好 謝謝那將來我倡議的代孕法案過了也請你好好想好 準備這件事情我們再研究好不好 委託夫妻如果透過代孕有了小孩這個孩子他要養啊 養啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3857.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3870.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
你要不要放在裡面你要先去研議不要等我這個法已經過了然後你在那邊完全沒有公平的對待可以嗎那你先給我這個收養的部分然後再來是這個代孕部分好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3871.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
3895.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
我們來研究一定要啊那收養就立刻要有答案啊收養我想這幾天內就請你給我一個答案不給不公平啊不給不公平啊只要法定程序收養的是可以適用的現在都是兒童福利法都是收養都是非常嚴謹的都是有證照的啦能夠自己生育都沒有證照這個整個收養過程我們太清楚了這個面談不知道多少次在法官面前還要上課還要這個健康檢查證明良民證那個收入證明財產證明 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
3899.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
3913.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
太多過程了這個都是法定的程序好嗎你們漏掉的部分顯然你們是漏掉的但是我要跟委員補充說明就性別評論工作法它的立法精神是希望父母要親自照顧小孩是親自啊 收養小孩是親 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
3915.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
3937.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
是來就已經收養他就是法定他的孩子啊主席不好意思這個他們如果連定義都不清楚我這個時間都不算了因為我今天還是很重要幫公務員講話啊我只是要補充說明這個立法意志沒有啦 你就要想看看嘛收養孩子我以前就一直在講這件事情因為我收養孩子已經30年了以前我們完全沒有被顧慮到但事實上人家說好偉大好偉大我也不覺得偉大啦這個都是自己的意願 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
3938.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
3948.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
收養立刻補上去養孩子嘛 育兒嘛 育兒嘛很多人就是不敢養才不生嘛好嗎 次長可以這樣 我這樣講有道理吧就法定程序收養都是有這幾分鐘都好 一定是現在還有偷小孩嗎 那是犯法你不要跟我一直講法定好嗎兒童福利法 請我去查查看好 麻煩你 次長這樣可以嗎是然後請你準備 待遇法案通過以後再下來你怎麼處理我們來研究來研究好 謝謝 謝謝然後這個 情緒部部長也麻煩您跟我回答一樣的問題好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
3967.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
3985.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
沒有錯 我們的制度都是跟著那個現在新北公共平台跟就業保險法一樣的你意思是說沒有啊 收養都沒有啊收養有啊 有 旁邊那個那個我不要再講依法這個字眼 有人會覺得就是一樣的 一樣的制度啦市長聽到 就是一樣啊 要一樣啊 生的放一邊養的大如天啊待運回來你也請你準備好 好 謝謝 謝謝好 這個是 那 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
3993.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4007.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
我想 次長請回首先我要對考試院這次公保法、利用法還有考試法修法方向表示支持小子女的話講了這麼多年我們看到很具體的一步但是因為前進的一步我們就看得再深遠一點那剛剛我們也做了報告民眾黨黨團提出一個修法版本我們希望把這個育兒留職這個停薪津貼的基準從現在的百分之六十拉高到百分之八十那請問副秘書長還有全序部長你們基本上能夠支持這樣的一個版本嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4024.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4044.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
事實上就是另外20%就已經加到20%了我知道這個部分 事實上有但是我們希望保障法定保障是提高到80%我知道委員的意思是希望把它放法裡面去法裡面就有跟委員報告細節的東西因為我們公保是個保險那有可能定期就要重新算費率啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4046.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4065.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
事實上最好的方式是說把訂提到80%你們照樣補助就是百分之百直接補助啊你要生小孩就這樣才有成果啊這個事情因為我們都是跟著性別平等工作法來的啦所以法案要修應該從那邊開始但是你身為主管我想你也可以往前去思考嘛對我知道這個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4067.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4073.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
我們都知道公務人員的公保投保金額是用本縫計算有時候專業加級 職務加級但本縫往往很低有人剛開始在兩萬多 三萬多我們也必須知道你要鼓勵相對年輕人生小孩不是過了育齡年齡所以相對他們的本縫是一定在比較低的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4086.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4096.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
雖然這次修法有說如果保險本封低於這個最低工資會補差額但是如果超過呢因為有的很低嘛那如果超過的你要有這個決心鼓勵生育部長我覺得至少有兩個重點本封還是要調整嘛本封因為為什麼呢因為公保的給付育嬰留庭這個津貼退休金提撥都是根據本封啊剛剛林委員提到你都是根據本封你計算的基礎都是本封啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4114.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4121.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
我們要考慮啊本鳳無負啦我之前在質詢也有說明這十年來GDP的成長率超過大概94%但是公職人員他們的調薪才14%遠遠跟不上所以本鳳的部分我還是請部長能夠費心一下至於剛剛我提到60%保障法定的那個百分比提到80%也請你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4135.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4161.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
好好努力 因為我們現在重點是要鼓勵大家生養小孩嘛那公務員是沒有這個後顧之憂啦好嗎 那個這個部分60到80我可不可以在兩周內知道你們初步的研議結果呢好可以嗎可以 就是我們現在其實也是把差別只是說要不要要不要入法啦補助歸補助啊入法就是要入 付法才有保障啊入法就有可能會調費率啦安心養育我就跟委員報告說他有可能會調費率啦安心養育 好 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4163.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4186.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
那最近賴總統終於醒悟了推出育兒大禮包 包含同事職在有今天人力調度有配套 老闆補人有資源那所以我要請教這個副秘書長跟部長 勞動部正努力往這個方向走那公務員體系要對齊嘛 這個現在是政府最喜歡用的兩個字嘛那根據現行的公務員加急給予辦法 公務員請假留庭限職同事代理很重要 要連續十天 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4188.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4201.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
才能夠領取這個食物佳績但是很多家長他需要的後來有的時候是短期的零星的零傘的部分那個育兒減工時或短期請假那如果沒有滿10天的代理那你不是要同時做功德嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4203.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4225.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
這樣對嗎 所以請問全序部 十天以上才有今天的緊箍咒 要不要拿掉各位報告 我想這個事情 從另外角度來講應該政府部門永遠都走在前面了以前勞動部沒有休 我們就已經先有職責要連續十天現在就是說因為有這個制度的話 我們就來看看有沒有需要休我們事實上政府部門還有另外一個獎頁的制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4227.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4242.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
我們會繼續來研議這個事情叫人家做功德彼此幫忙好嗎就是給那因為勞動部有在研議在幫忙代理育兒工時可以按日取津貼大概例如每天800元所以我們是不是可以研議一下那個彈性津貼過績效這個獎勵所以秘書長這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4245.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4252.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
考試院這次踏出了第一步,但不能只做半套啦所以我們希望是針對公務人員,值待十天的門檻放寬以及對齊民間育兒值待津貼的機制我是不是想請人總,今天人總也出席了兩週內提出一份署名報告給我如果說機關認為我們請新人來幫忙那也可以啊,那看你的配套是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4273.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4277.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
這樣可以嗎我想兩周會議我們來提個書面報告跟委員報告說以前已經有這個制度了現在這個制度因為這個修正有沒有需要再做一點討論這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4288.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4317.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
那現在還是麻煩部長還有這個任總的陳樹之處長跟教育部林處長我一邊講好嗎這個時間全國退休人員在今年六月已經陸續收到這個補發停感年金的重新審定函全序部也表明最晚會在今年八月以前要完成補撥一百一十四年十二月底到到今年七月這個差額那這件事我本身要先給全序部一個肯定那當然我之前也問了要不要回溯到 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4318.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4341.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
但今天我聚焦在另外一個部分但是我看到行政院發言人李慧芝她在6月11日記者會竟然說莫名其妙她說行政院目前沒有刷到考試院的任何公文她兩手一攤啊還說希望等到憲法法庭釋憲結果出來再作為行政執法的依據那我現在就要請教了先請教刑事部請問這個部長公文到底發了沒6月幾號 6月8號 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4348.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4360.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
6月11號那法案人說假話了那你如果講老實話他就是說假話了6月11號他就說沒有啊我們沒有收到公文啊可以這樣嗎可以公然這樣嗎好我再請問一下任總任總有沒有收到公文 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4362.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4384.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
報告委員有給人事總署的公文有收到那為什麼6月11號李慧芝說沒收到是她推脫還是妳在推脫是她講老實話還是妳講老實話報告委員因為受問者是行政院人事總署並不是行政院可以這樣回答是不是那發言人可以不知道就隨便講話嗎我沒有收到他等憲法法庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4385.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4400.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
委員我跟您報告我們給所有的主管機關都發給各職主管所以也給各部會也給行政院應該是這樣子啦那所以他只是總署代表是總署收到這樣子啦總署收到這麼大的事不知道就可以發言嗎發言人要好好做功課啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4401.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4405.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
那個陳處長 請問人總就是說不管你收到 當然就是說你是收到了啦還是現在才看到那你會配合辦理嗎 通知各機關嗎還是扣著不辦 還是要等什麼釋憲呢你們會做嗎是 包含委員人事總處收到是副本嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4420.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4445.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
然後你要等釋憲嗎?還是要趕快辦?我們就是依照行政院的政策來執行政策是什麼?是要等釋憲還是現在辦?對,就是依照行政院的政策來依釋憲結果也尊重全區部診察的決定你有法律基礎嗎?立法院三讀通過的東西你不遵守?你要等著一個不做功課的發言人講說他要等釋憲? |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4449.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4467.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
這樣嗎我們就是針對這個相關的這個退伏法律的部分都是尊重依照行政院的政策執行好依照行政院好大家聽齁全國國民都在聽這個這個這個質詢齁好教育部林處長請問針對退休要教師部分教育部編列補發田凱年金的預算嗎發的夠發的出來嗎有編列嗎夠嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4471.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4498.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
跟委員報告這個不用預算原來就在裡面只是說我們節省原來節省下來的是預註回來所以他是沒有預算的問題好沒有預算表示發了出來對好發了出來好謝謝你好那全區部這個行政院當然你說要申請申請釋憲所以你們是贊成你是支持行政院用釋憲來拖延跟不買單立法院通過的法律作為嗎你是不是支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4499.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4520.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
我跟委員報告這不是自不自是這個釋憲案已經在進行了我們已經提出釋憲案但是我們還是依法行政我們這依法行政的過程就是說釋憲是一個程序我們現在把該做的事情審定的發出去然後8月1號以前就按照這個方式那當然這中間的過程還有釋憲還在進行中我想跟委員這樣報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4521.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4542.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
那你能不能承諾今年8月1號那個差額的部分可不可以百分之百如期發發因為我們審定案出去按理說機關就根據這個審定案來進行8月1號可以齁那就是說當然這裡面還是有視線的程序但是如果視線程序都沒有任何一個狀況當然就是按照這個程序來進行視線是行政院提的啊考試院也要跟著這個嗎我們考試院也有提視線你也提視線喔對 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4547.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4556.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
好 你今天好好跟所有公務員講 你們要提釋憲不是 我們已經提了 已經提了憲法法庭 大法官都不夠了 開什麼會好 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4562.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4587.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
本席還有在替18萬這個退休工作人員向程序部呈情台灣教育產業公會日前召開記者會他們說程序部發出了這個重新審定通知書敷衍了事失去通知書的意義我深同感受很多退休工作人員徒苦等了半年滿心期待打開這一份攸關自己年老生活的這個行政處分書結果戴上老花眼一看發現這樣只是把112年所得替代率的救贖值直接超過來了它不是實發的金額啦拜託你們這種事也做得出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4591.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4609.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
這個全區部附上的QA就是問答當中請退休人自己計算說要乘以1.02 1.04所以退校公教的人就告訴我說我都老花眼了你還叫我自己算部長為什麼會這樣呢為什麼發生這樣的事呢不是我們都是根據一向的狀況因為退休審定案是一個基礎它不會變動 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4610.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4629.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
所以我們一定要把它跟發出的這112年你實際上的省定額多少那因為退休是會調整的所以每一次調整就根據省定額的基數去乘以那個1.0幾1.0可是這個系統自動會帶出來也就是說另外一個發放系統的時候到時候他刷本子你在講處理過程思考過程但是對民眾跟公務員而言國家難道不是一體的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4633.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4639.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
政府就明明有全國國債人退休撫恤的整合平台資訊系統技術上你們已經把想要調整後的金額匯入平台了為什麼就不能再給當事人的那個處分書或通知書多加一個欄位呢就是115年實際發放金額為什麼這種變名措施從這個行政局只做半套呢為什麼把換算責任丟給那個曾經為國家勞心勞力的退休公務員呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4655.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4667.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
我真的不用判斷就是那個發放平台最後會自動算出來把就直接機關就根據這個下來就發放就直接到你幹嘛還讓人家一堆人看不懂啊真的一堆人看不懂啊因為我審定作業就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4671.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4695.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
好 那就我想本期要具體要求請全序部在一個月內研議針對這18名這個退休工作人員從今何發你從今何發會提供一個能明確查閱真實的退休經時發的額數的通知機制不要讓國家的一致性跟政府的公信力在一張羽翼模糊啦做半套在審定書上好嗎你可以答應嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4696.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4718.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
我想這個到8月1號8月1號就大家這樣刷本子的知道了啦你還是要刷本子喔下一次那個語意模糊的東西故意學問很大然後寫了三四頁我都看不懂的東西寫了一大堆法條一大堆你就把告訴他你要補你多少啊你們有資料啊就是告訴他啊不要讓他自己算算這樣可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4719.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4726.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
好 反正將來一定還要再補我們真正通過的部分還有兩年的部分要補好 謝謝 謝謝各位好 謝謝主席好 接下來我們請翁曉琳委員來進行詢答 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4744.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4757.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
好謝謝主席那麼在這邊首先先請群術部施部長然後人事行政總處還有教育部的代表施部長人總處教育部代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4762.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4786.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
市部長好那麼我想剛剛這個陳昭志委員其實已經幫我先問了我一開始要質詢的議題就是有關於最近很多的退休的公教人員陸陸續續都收到了退休金的新的審定函那麼但是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4787.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4806.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
已经很多的退休公教人员都说实在是看不懂那个退休审定书里面到底是写的这金额数字对不对而且看了看去就是跟112年当时的或是他们一开始拿那个退休审定函的原来的本封计算的是一模一样的 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4807.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4825.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
在這樣的情況之下為什麼還要拖了半年之久然後才又發了一個跟之前一模一樣的審定函這個其實已經引起了很多退休公教人員很不滿那再加上就是審定函書後面的一些提醒的一些注意的事項其實大家也是看得無撒撒就連 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4826.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4852.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
我自己看我都還解讀了半天實在是不知道全序部發了這個退休審定函你們當時在整個敘述的過程當在整個敘述的這段內容裡面有沒有讓別人看一看到底看不看得懂剛剛部長有講說這是法制作業這是法制的這個用語可是實際上對於我拿到這份退休從這個新版的這個退休審定函裡面我第一個要核對就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4853.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4877.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
我现在拿的这个退休金跟之前有没有差别而且应该是要更多因为113年12年都有调薪那这个数字有没有反映在这个审定函里面就算是你们的计算基础原来是根据当时每个退休人员退休时候的那个退休退休当年的那个本俸的这个基础你们也可以在旁边做一个 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4879.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4896.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
就是列兩欄然後同時把這個正確的數字提供出來這就像剛剛陳昭之委員講的是不是應該要將10發10領的金額也要做一個列表這樣的話才不會讓公教人員有所誤會說怎麼回事這次的這個年改這個停侃怎麼停侃之後還越改越少 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4901.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
4926.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
我這裡已經接到非常非常多這個退休公教人員打電話來澄清這個事情那當然本席其實在6月10號我也有請學術部這裡趕快緊急又發了一個新聞稿你們是在6月16號才用新聞稿來澄清稍微說得比較清楚一點但是仍然是讓很多的公教人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
4928.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
4954.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
花很多的這個時間還要去看還要理解所以本席建議說你們是不是可以再做一個更清楚的QA或是圖卡來給我們所有的退休公教人員解惑那現在是我們看到就是在教育人員的部分是蠻多的這個協會不管是全教產台教產或全教育總會他們那裡會自己做圖卡來做些說明但是我認為像教育部 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
4955.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
4967.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
人事行政總署還有權需部這邊是不是應該也要做一個更清楚的說明用一個比較簡單的方式告訴大家說接下來他們領的退休金到底實際上的金額是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
4968.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
4982.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
我跟委員報告其實我們在部裡面的臉書已經有這些圖卡那可能宣傳還不夠啦那這個事情我們在會後的時候呢也再來看看這怎麼樣給公教同仁我相信沒有什麼人去看這個學術部的臉書啦那我們這邊有很多的委員都有上百萬粉絲的也可以拜託他們幫忙宣傳或是民眾黨 國民黨的委員以及其他一些網紅或是各個機關部會 工會我覺得大家都可以來幫忙做這件事情盡可能的把 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
4998.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5024.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
正確的資訊要傳達給所有的這個退休公教人員讓大家安心這件事很重要而不是部長剛剛說的這個之後去刷本子刷了本子之後就知道說他使領的這個退休金額是多少這樣的說法坦白說不負責任而且如果說依法論法來講的話是不是要從刷本子的看到實際的金額那一刻起才叫做行政處分生效 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5024.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5041.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
我跟委員報告因為當初在年改的時候回到之前年改就先核定一個那個審定函就是以那個數字後來我們不管怎麼調整我們都不會再去更改那個審定函那個數字所以同樣的邏輯我是跟委員我們這次也是因為回到111重新做這個一個處分所以我們就112年這個作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5046.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5072.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
不過布朗坦白說當時107年那個時候是比較清楚因為那時候的本分各方面可能就是比較清楚的數字之後因為這些年來其實因為我們的退休金也有調整嘛隨著薪水有調整所以有調整那麼我還是要講就是很多你們做的這個一法行政所謂行政處分或是行政的事項你要回到就是說是不是夠接地氣 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5073.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5097.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
是不是退休的公教人員能夠理解你們所做的這個作為否則的話你們花了很多心思可是最後卻得來一陣罵我覺得這個部分的話並不是很好再加上如果說到時候真的有退休的公教人員他發現他刷的金額就是明顯有錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5098.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5124.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
那你是不是應該允許他還有一個多一個月的時間的救濟期間而不是以收到審定函的那個這個救濟期間開始起算好這部分我希望局局部回去要去研議喔因為我們現在是收到推出新審定函然後你們上面有給他們預知說是收到這個公文之後的一個月內若有任何問題的話要提起申訴或申付 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5125.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5151.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
可是對大家來講我不知道那個數字到底對不對要等到實際上刷本子之後才會知道嘛如果說按照部長的邏輯那麼如果說真的有發生這個狀況我認為說應該要給予當事人一個合理的一個法律就計期間好嗎好的那接下來呢就是回到剛剛講的那個行政院可能不買單不贊同權序部說8月1號就開始停止扣減這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5154.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5168.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
這個停止扣減退休金同時呢對於要補發1月到8月的這個退休金的預扣差額行政院看起來也不會買單那麼就這個部分來講考試院跟詮釋部有沒有跟行政院好好的去溝通這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5171.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5189.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
行政院是不是不會買單這個政策我真的不清楚但是就是布裡面的態度就是我們應該發出審定案把講清楚那這個就依法行政往前走那如果沒有就是我們也提了視線這個過程都沒有發生就是以8月1號我們一估現在大家8月1號每個服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5189.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5208.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
每個發放機關就根據你的 八一號以後去發放我知道現在考試院全序部在這個方面來講的話本身是給予你們肯定 至少是說你們還是依法行政那知道在釋憲程序 釋憲結果沒有出來之前該怎麼做就要怎麼做 對不對那人事行政總處麻煩 今天是處長嗎 還是是不是可以請你回去轉達給行政院要聽聽人家全序部考試院的這個法律見解 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5217.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5236.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
他們的做法 不是行政院自己瞞幹啊說不想發就不想發這行政院 卓榮泰已經有太多違憲亂政的事蹟不要在這件事情上又搞鬼現在已經是很多的退休公教人員看到卓榮泰 看到行政院的發言非常非常不滿 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5238.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5254.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
考試院全序部還有很多的這個教育部現在也都紛紛的發給了這個退休公教人員的新的審定函結果竟然可以說行政院說我可能不打算發可以這樣做嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5267.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5296.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
是 所以因為考試院詮釋部是這個法的主管機關他們都已經重新發了審定函所以呢 該停扣就停扣該退還至少今年一到八月的退休金的一扣金額就要跟著一起做而不是說行政院又有自己的另外一套做法報告委員 沒有啊 行政院沒有另外一套做法只是說我們就是尊重事先的結果來執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5297.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5320.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
那事件結果如果說到明後年這些大法官根本沒有補齊啊是怎麼樣你們已經知道說五位大法官會在8月1號之前就會做出違憲的判決嗎是嗎是有這樣子風聲嗎這我們不知道這五人大法官到現在為止做的每一號的判決都是違反正當法律程序的都是違憲的違憲判決都是違憲的判決啦應該這麼說 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5326.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5347.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
所以希望這個行政院不要和全國的退休軍公教的人員唱反調對你們來講一點好處都沒有好那接下來我要再談的就是有關於議員津貼的問題在這裡還想請教部長那麼我們知道其實這些年尤其從你們的報告裡面可以看到真正申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5349.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5358.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
育嬰跟育孫的這個數據其實坦白說也不是很多啦申請育嬰的人數雖然是有提升但是申請育孫的這數據竟然只有個位數112年只有申請一個人當然因為當時的辦法裡面所設定的條件是嚴格的 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5369.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5395.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
所以要申請遇孫假可能也不是很容易那現在我們因為大幅放寬了所以希望未來可能有更多的公教人員他們可以來申請遇孫假但是就回到我們今天為什麼會提出這個相關的修法因為以目前的狀況來講他提了申請了假但是他實際上他沒有辦法得到任何今天補助申請遇孫的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5396.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5423.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
遇孫假的人他不可能像是申請育嬰假或育兒假的這群公教人員他可以有像至少八個月的津貼所以呢就這個部分來講的話其實本席是認為說這個法應該要修那也看到群衆部基本上也支持這個法不過因為你們今天在寫的報告裡面有講說這公營事業跟私立學校等不同的族群的人士上會被排除在外 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5424.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5446.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
會嗎 為什麼會 我們所提的法案裡面當然是包含所有的公務人員的被保險人他們有另外的法源 他的規定沒有包括遇孫他的流停沒有遇孫 他不是適用我們這一套公務人員但是他們在公保要全部一起適用 等於他源頭沒有遇孫這個字 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5447.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5450.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
那這樣的話是不是應該要建議就是一併要配包裹式的修法要配套修法不能夠把公益事業跟私立學校等等這些不同族群的工作夥伴排除在外因為那個涉及到私校的涉及到公益 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5463.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5484.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
所以如果真的要做應該回到還有私校啊因為大量的是私校沒有公教保險包括私校所以也就是說他們要一併的修法嗎或者是說還是回去性供法因為這個制度本來都是從性供法做母法來的也可以從性供法裡面去處理應該是性別平等工作法是勞動部的主管法規是嗎是那所以就是說可以請正次 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5494.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5504.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
所以從這個角度來看的話是不是性別平等工作法應該要一併修法這個才會就是涵蓋到所有應該受保障的人受保障的族群 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5505.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5523.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
我也是說要擴大到哪一部分就是包含私立學校的老師以及公營事業的員工他們應該都要適用性別工作平等法然後同時在未來申請預算價的時候他們也可以得申請到足額的津貼 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5525.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5549.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
現在性供法的適用對象只要是受雇者都可以適用的可是受雇者是包含勞工吧但是對於就是說他是適用於公務人員保險法的這一群人來說有包含在內嗎所有只要是受雇者有雇用關係都是適用性供法的那軍公教的機關如果他是受雇者也算的 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5551.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5580.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
就這個部分說實在話 但是我們信封法勞動部這邊是不是應該開個會討論一下到底要修什麼法要把這套配套措施整個的要包裹式簡單來說是要進行包裹式的修法就像是我們上次本席一開始提出說可以放寬預生假的時候那時候全區部說不用修法結果後來又衍生說其實有好多的法其實要應該一併同時修才不會有 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5581.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5600.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
萬一漏案的狀況那現在今天自然就學習部有提出這個方案不要說我們修了公務人員保險法的相關條文之後最後呢讓私立學校還有公營事業的相關的族群的這些工作夥伴沒有辦法能夠申請到預算價 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5603.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5621.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
現在性供法 因為性供法是以希望父母親親自照顧小孩為立法意旨所以在育孫這塊確實現行性供法規定是還沒有含括所以要檢討嘛 是不是要檢討請問部長是不是之後修性別公平的法就好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5623.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5639.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
這個議題是我跟委員 我知道委員的意思長期以來委員說他欲申我們都往這邊走但是我跟委員真的報告這個事情我很坦白報告這個事情是複雜的議題因為勞動體系的性工法是適用絕大部分是勞動體系勞動體系現在並沒有欲申這個概念 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5639.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5660.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
他只有育兒但是我們剛剛講的公益事業跟私立學校的老師他們本身也是受到公務人員保薪法的我們有兩種模式嘛一種是修信工如果國家有這個政策一種就是個別去修譬如像說教育部要去修他的那個私校什麼請問教育部這邊要修嗎因為私校 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5662.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5685.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
就是教師請教規則 他就要在他的教師請教規則因為老師是教育部管的那國營事業那部分就要回到國營事業大概有就是公務人員請教規則嗎教育部是教師請教規則然後那公務人員呢 對不起 公營事業的各個公營事業主管 經濟部財政部他們就要自己去處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5686.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5695.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
所以我們法制是分開的啦就我們有一種方式是分開的法制處理好 這個部分坦白說比較複雜我想我們今天就不要佔用質詢時間那我想請學訓部這邊可不可以給我一份報告說明這個背景如果說是要把私立學校跟公營事業單位員工一併涵蓋在裡面因為他們都是受到公教人員保險法裡面所規範的對象但是我們現在修了這個法卻沒有辦法涵蓋去保護到這群人 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5712.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5726.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
那所以到底還要再修什麼法是請情緒部給我一份報告然後也請教育部還有人事行政總處吧是不是這裡一併提說未來要朝這個方向做的話要修什麼法才能夠避其功於一役好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5728.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5749.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
給委員這個報告也會提到說他的他可能碰到一些議題是什麼我想這是一個比較完整的報告好然後最後我還有一個議題想要請教這個勞動部次長就是說因為行政院現在已經有推動說未來有這個待薪減工時可以值待的補助政策但是呢對於這個部分其實現在是300人以下 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5750.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5766.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
你們未來是針對200人以下的企業輔助12歲以下子女的勞工每天可以提早一小時下班不減薪然後政府還可以加碼每天補助800元的職務代理人津貼但是因為洪森漢部長有說這項措施將採取不採法律強制而且是走勞資合議行政獎勵的計畫來辦理那現在本席就是困惑的就是說這個勞資合議未來會不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5779.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5805.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
流于变成是雇主口头拒绝的党键牌因为必须老板跟这个员工要达成合意然后才可以有这个职务代理而且呢你们现在规划每天800元的职务代理人的津贴是拨入到企业账户那你们怎么能够保证这个企业账户进了企业账户的钱之后这个钱可以真正的去给这个职务代理人 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5805.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5821.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
那委員現在還沒有給這個職務代理的這個同事勞工那個津貼我們未來如果順利的話明年一月還會開始給所以剛剛委員講的那個是一千塊那個確實給中小企業雇主那現在還沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5822.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5826.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
現在那個千塊是給雇主的市長我的意思是講說因為現在就靠勞資合意嘛但是你勞資合意未來會不會就成為老闆的一個藉口反正我跟我的員工已經講了今天事情很忙所以不能提前一小時下班同時現在說的要給800元的職務代理金 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5843.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5857.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
他不是直接發給那個被那個真正代理的人的身上我們未來會給那個代理的同事勞工會給他好那我希望能夠朝這個方向去辦理是是好那以上好就謝謝謝謝好謝謝翁委員謝謝各機關代表好接下來我們有請審發會委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5882.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5899.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
主席我們先請勞動部市長好請市長市委好市長齁這個我先就一個問題齁剛才在質詢的時候您的回答啦齁我來跟你探討一下這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5901.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5927.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
剛才我們陳昭智委員有提到,有關於我們今天所討論的公教人員保險法或者是這些相關的流停的規定他特別提到有關養子女的部分來收養子女的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5928.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
5953.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
那我請問市長有關於這個收養值我們現在目前的這些相關的規定法令有關於這個育嬰留職停薪跟這個跟這個這個相關的這個公教人保險法裡面有關於有特別關於養子女的特別的排除規定或者是有關於限縮這些規定只適用於婚生子女的相關規定有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
5955.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
5975.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
現在性別平等公共法並沒有排除這個沒有這個相關的特別規定沒有沒有沒有排除那如果沒有相關的特別規定的話按照民法第1077條的這個第一項的規定有關養子女與養父母之間親屬關係除法律另有規定之外與婚生子女同 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
5976.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
5995.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
也就是說我們剛剛講你講這個規定都沒有特別的特殊的排除這個這個收養子女也沒有特殊也沒有規定特別就只限說在規定在婚生子女如果沒有這樣的規定的話按照民法這一條他就是適用所有的婚生子女跟養殖跟收養的子女對不對是是就這麼簡單的問題剛剛為什麼回答的支支吾吾的 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6000.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6025.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
剛剛一開始沒有那麼聽清楚委員那個陳昭德委員的問題也就是你沒有這個相關排除的規定或是針對婚生子女的特殊限縮規定的話你按照民法你就是就是適用所有他的這些這些相關的法律關係除了法律另有規定之外與婚生子女同啊所以這些育嬰留職停薪這些當然包括收養的子女啊這個這個有什麼好難以回答的呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6026.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6053.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
對不對我這樣講對不對沒有錯沒有錯喔所以這個東西你要很你搞清楚這法律體系怎麼會來問這種問題除非我們認為說這個育嬰的留職停薪必須應該要排除收養子女那就有特別規定我們就來訂一個特別規定除非你想要排除不然的話你現在依照現行的規定一定包括收養子女的啦是對不對對好次長請回主席主席我們請這個我們前序部好請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6059.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6083.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
部長好我想我們在去年的九月我們有針對這個單日的育嬰流食停薪我們有做了政策的規定就是拍板那時候在九月四號宣布我們這個育嬰流停可以單日實施而且軍公教也適用而且從今年的元旦一月一號開始實施對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6085.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6112.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
麥克風開一下政府部門是這樣子也是去年9月宣布之後在今年1月1日開始實施有關於育嬰留庭可以單日申請那我要請問現在有關於公務人員跟教師他得按日申請且申請次數沒有限制這是我們現在政策嗎來我們具體的法律依據是哪一條 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6114.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6122.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
我們的這個育嬰留庭按照哪一個法令或者有沒有函式或者是行政規則我們有留庭辦法留庭辦法裡面有規定可以按日 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6129.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6151.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
應該這樣講我們的任用法28條是最上位的法源啦28條之一啦 第二項有一個上面的法源然後根據這個我們訂了一個留庭辦法那留庭辦法裡面就應該是比較大的空間我們來做一些留庭辦法第五條第一項啦第一項裡面的第一款啦 規定說養育三足歲以下的子女 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6152.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6172.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
就這樣文字就是這樣你如果養育刪除稅以下的子女你可以留職得申請留職停薪但是我剛剛的問題是你得按日你可以按日申請而且申請次數沒有限制這個是哪一個法定規定我沒有反對這個我贊成而且我覺得很棒但是我現在要問的是法定依據 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6173.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6192.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
因為我們辦法沒有限制所以我們就做出這樣一個一個彈性的空間啦這樣彈性處理是不對的 部長應該要有法律 你要提供法律依據為什麼我這樣子提呢你們至少要有一個作業的指引到底這個單日的申請我要在幾天之前提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6193.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6220.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
或者是我臨時的狀況我有什麼樣的條件我可以在臨時請這些我們目前都沒有任何的的辦法沒有任何的指引各個機關各行其事到底要在幾天之前提出你這個單日的育嬰假的申請而且你申請你臨時臨時說我今天小孩生病臨時請有什麼樣的條件什麼樣的程序我們都沒有統一的指引沒有規定部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6221.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6234.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
有關於軍職的部分其實軍人的軍職的部分反而國防部做得比你們好國防部就做得很清楚國防部他們在這個軍職他們就有明定而且他們就已經有甚至連專用的立稿都有了 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6235.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6254.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
但是我們其他的公務人員其他的教師我們其他各個機關規定因為我們沒有統一的指引我剛所講的按日申請而且可以不限制數完全都沒有任何的法令沒有任何的函式沒有任何的這個行政規則所以各個機關各行其事 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6256.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6267.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
我們注意到這個事情所以我們部裡面目前正在其實已經徵詢完了啦我們還要再修就是要再修這個原來的那個流停辦法就會把這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6268.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6295.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
操作的細則就在流聯辦法裡面有一致性的說明我們確實正在處理中現在已經1月實施 現在已經7月你們到現在這幾個月的時間我們來已經會過各機關來表示意見了這個部分我們還是要有應該要有這個一致性包括合理的通知因為你這個機關你若沒有一個統一的指引我這個機關每個機關他所遇到的行政狀況不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6296.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6314.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
你要有合理的通知原則還有什麼樣的突發狀況有例外的規定這些都應該要有相關的法律依據好不好這個部分就是我今天第一個要跟部長來談的要兼顧育兒需求跟機關的業務運作的情況我們一定應該要有法律依據的好不好這個是第一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6317.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6342.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
再來針對我們今天我們等一下我們要併案審查的有關於公教人員保險法的相關的條文這個部分請問這個部長我們現在有這個我們之前部有一個草案草案送到考試院考試院現在在會前行政院是不是對請問你們這個法案什麼時候公告的 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6342.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6360.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
我們6月11號院會通過什麼時候公告不是通過我是說什麼時候公告讓大家知道看到你們的條文內容什麼時候公告我們法律沒有預告因為慣例上修法沒有預告但是你們什麼時候公告公告把這個法令公告讓大家看了 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6361.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6381.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
我們確實沒有在網站上公告這件事有啦有啦昨天下午四點半公告的啦之前沒有啦我要講的是之前沒有有啦就是昨天下午四點半啦今天要審查了你們昨天下午四點半讓助理只有半個小時的時間可以準備啦如果要準備就一定要加班啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6383.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6405.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
我的意思是說我們在送到考試院之前沒有放在網上之前吼 之前我們辦公室跟你們索取說你們是不是有草案 你們說有 但是不方便提供布板不方便提供 我們跟考試院這個來索資 考試院說我現在在會前行政院不方便提供然後到昨天下午四點半你們才公告 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6408.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6433.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
你們這個是什麼考量 為什麼會這樣做我回去了解一下 真的很抱歉啦 這個事情那你們現在這樣會賢的話 大概預計什麼時候會賢完成那就要看行政院什麼時候回來我們人事行政總署能不能回答一下 預計什麼時候會完成會賢包法委員 那個公保法的修正案 明天提院會討論明天提院會討論是 我們就會即時會賢 送到立法院好 謝謝 謝謝那這個齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6437.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6463.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
這個我想我針對我們這次我後來我我們昨天確實加班的看了我們的法案看了我們考試院行政院的這個草案這個我們這個整個版本大概修正有幾個修正重點我看大概四個修正重點第一個就是把過去的育嬰後面加個瓜胡育兒讓這個育嬰跟育兒的爭議把它用這樣的方式來法律上統一育嬰瓜號育兒這是第一個修法重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6464.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6475.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
第二個就是我們延長育嬰的瘤子停薪的進貼從六歲延長到七歲對不對三歲啦 從本來的三歲延長到七歲子延長到六歲子嘛現在延長到七歲原來到三歲啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6486.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6503.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
現在的規定是3歲那配合性工法就會延長到未滿7歲是規定原本就是說草案修正草案在育兒留職停薪適用子女年齡延長至6歲以下期間是該子女7歲是規定留職停薪津貼到該子女7歲為止這是第二個重點第三個就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6512.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6523.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
這次討論一個很大的重點就是有關於這個津貼給付的月數我們原本六個月是我們原本的做法這個我們把這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6527.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6544.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
這個給付的月數我們用6加3的方式就是你如果雙親同時同時這個同時育嬰我們就讓你再加3個月用6加3的方式但是目前委員很多的提案草案是直接就加9個月直接加12個月或加到12個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6545.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6567.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
這個你們六加三是你們第三個重點第四個重點就是有關於這個留職聽信的這個這個低於最低法最低工資的部分做調整大概就這幾個所以比較大概會如果真的我們進行這個這個逐條討論的時候我想真正會遇到比較大的問題大概就會是剛剛我所講的這個有關於 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6571.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6593.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
大概有兩個問題一個就是有關於今天6加3到底我們委員提出來的草案大部分是直接把它變成9個月甚至有延長到12個月那我們為什麼要採取6加3這樣的方式而不做直接延長這部分一定要部長說明不然到時候我們委員的草案都是直接9個月我現在簡單說我們都是配合 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6595.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6611.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
跟那個性供法加上就業保險法一致性的寫法一致性的寫法這是因為是那一致性的寫法所以我們認為這一方面是一致性的寫法一方面是我們認為這個這個那時候當初這個一致性的寫法6加之所以6加3就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6612.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6635.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
有政策上面 法律政策上面鼓勵雙親共同雙親共同照顧這樣子的意涵在內背後的意涵是這樣的對 背後的意涵是這樣 鼓勵雙親所以我們還是 我也是認為說我們應該要支持我們的願板這個6加3的部分那另外還有一個部分就是現行的育嬰津貼我們目前現行是到 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6636.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6659.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
八成啦齁但是八成裡面事實上我們是薪資的六成那另外有二十趴的部分我們是由公務預算來支應用公務預算來補發這個育嬰留子金貼對不對有二十趴對沒錯那現在我們委員修法的版本直接在法律上面就直接把它規定成八十趴 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6660.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6680.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
為什麼我們願板我們不贊成直接調整為80%我們為什麼還是認為應該由60%來支付這個薪資然後另外20%用公務預算直接這個理由要請你說我們跟委員報告這主要是因為公保是一個必須要投保完以後我們要去計算費率的 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6680.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6701.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
那我們原來就是用費力的概念計算就60%是公保主管那20%由政府來補貼所以不會涉及費力的定期的精算跟變動如果涉及保險的準備金這些都不會涉及如果直接就是說通通是由保險準備金來負擔的話那就一定要定期 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6702.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6710.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
需要去精算他就會對公保的財務他的提撥費率還有這個全體保險人的權益整個都會受到影響主要是有不同的保險人可能不同的看法所以我們那時候之所以會採取說在疫情流行期間我們支付只支付六成的薪資但是我們認為六成不夠政府用公務預算再補20%最主要是希望我們不希望說因為我們調整到80%去影響到整體 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6729.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6745.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
這個保險的包括保險的準備金包括這個整個提撥率包括全體的這個被保險人的權益對不對所以我在這邊是是希望說這個我們要講清楚啦因為我們委員大部分的提案都是直接就是改成八成那如果這八成再加上我們公共預算二成那就百分之百了 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6747.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6765.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
對不對所以這部分我想在我們修法討論的時候我希望說我們這部裡面能夠把這樣子立場講清楚同時我們又要鼓勵用留職停薪的方式鼓勵育兒同時我們也要兼顧保險的整體財務上的衝擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6770.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6780.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
希望說我們未來如果有機會在主要審查的時候我們能夠把我們部的法案的立場精神說清楚而且我們希望說能夠朝這個方向來走好不好 好 知道謝謝 謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6783.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6807.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
謝謝沈委員不過看起來沈委員的處境跟我一樣就是我這個要求部會提供預購法案然後都一直遲遲的拖延那希望全序部不要考試院全序部不要向行政院看齊了他們的做法不好該什麼時候提供就趕快提供我們這個委員們大家都很認真希望能夠早點拜讀你們所提的法案 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6808.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6813.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
好不好 希望下次改進那接下來我們有請范雲委員發言謝謝朝委 有請施部長好 請施部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6825.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6846.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
部長早今天主要是針對公教人員的職場我覺得還可以做得更平等的育兒支持首先要肯定勞動部我們次長在這我想這一次的育兒環境的改善突破非常的大我想大家已經知道了就是育嬰假升級為育兒假另外一個就是6加3 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6847.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6867.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
鼓勵雙親一起育兒因為有很多國際的研究都看到爸爸一起加入其實對於女性回到職場這件事是有幫助的也對於能夠願意生養下一代這個經驗是非常正面的是有幫助的 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6868.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6895.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
那我也告訴大家一下從兩年前我就跟勞動部前部長時代當時就談到彈性育嬰假很重要可是勞動部的計畫做得不夠好那去年我也跟卓院長總質詢覺得以日請休很重要那非常的高興這次勞動部能夠提出跟我問政方向一致的修正草案但是今天呢我除了肯定勞動部之外 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6896.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6906.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
那因為剛剛那個部長都一直講到這次是對其性工法對其勞動部相關的改革嘛那你們的新聞稿也都是這樣寫可是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6907.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
6930.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
我們看一下這一次的部分這個是一致的部分這個部分做得很好但是我看到有幾個差異第一個就是留庭的津貼數額計算基準不同剛剛省委員也有提到就是所謂的加發的20%我們是依照這個補助要點這部分公保法也有對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
6931.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
6947.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
那但是呢因為公教人員十領縫級的部分是所謂的本縫加級以我自己也是公立大學的教授來看非常高的比例是放在加級那計算起來我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
6949.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
6976.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
會發現有很大的差異但是我也先肯定你們關於這個低於最低工資的部分就以最低工資算那但是高於最低工資的公教人員的計算方式那其實有很大的差異那我們辦公室用這個來算如果有一個人在公立學校的教師是二十五星級那他的薪額是兩萬九千多縫級是五萬五千多那他實際 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
6978.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
6996.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
領到的這個育兒津貼是17,700只佔他的月薪的31.7%那今天如果是用公務員來算因為剛剛是公立學校的老師那這個是低於最低工資的那如果高於最低工資的話你可以看到育兒津貼算起來是他實際月薪的32.4% |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7000.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7022.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
那一般勞工的話這裡要跟大家講一下這邊我注意這個育兒津貼這個數字是寫錯是27480算起來是實際月薪的48.8%所以一個接近零到一半我覺得勞動部也是可以改善這一塊因為他對越高薪的越不利雖然這次已經有突破了這次已經比過去好 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7022.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7040.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
所以對公務員來講如果不到實際月薪的三分之一那到底誰能夠請領其實也是要經濟環境比較寬裕的可能要雙薪家庭如果家裡只有一個人的薪水的話其實影響蠻大的所以我想這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7042.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7069.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
不知道就是我可以跟委員先說明一下嗎好第一個部分其實整體的話還是要回到公教保險是一個準備金來支付的是所以你用什麼分子那個母數是什麼去投保就用那個母數去領計算基準所以你如果要把母數擴大就像我們的退府是用本奉乘以二意思就是每個人就通通要多繳保費 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7070.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7096.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
那多繳保費的一個結果呢因為我們公教是他幾副項目非常非常多所以這個真的是跟剛剛問題是一樣這個是不是公教同仁大家都全體都贊成說為了只是因為為了這一個去提高然後大家都要多繳保費這我沒有個人的這個特別的一個意見我只是說他實際技術上操作會碰到這個問題所以這需要更多的討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7097.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7116.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
您的意思是財源的問題就是他要調保費他可能要增加保費一定增加那有可能費率還會再重新計算有可能再提高費率所以對全體的公務同仁公教同仁都可能因為這樣是需要增加他的負擔雖然 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7118.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7140.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
公務人員其實也並沒有表達反對過我說這個議題我只是把這樣從我們部裡面做制度面的設計我們因為有責任要去把這個可能情境你們有責任要提出這個可能的方向因為這樣子對公務人員來講的話他的育兒留庭的機會其實是比勞工的待遇差我理解 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7142.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7169.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
那當然還有另外一個部分我們辦公室也發現就收養子女先行共同生活期間院版的救保法有照顧到這個問題算是很體貼就是如果你想要收養小孩共同生活期間是可以領育兒留職停薪津貼的那可是考試院版的公保法就沒有類似的計畫這部分是你們漏掉了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7174.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7188.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
因為考試院會比較傾向在法律關係沒有確定以前可能採取比較保守的方式所以目前沒有加上去不過如果院版是這樣通過我想這可能就變成 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7189.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7214.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
你們可以考慮 因為他裡面都有提到法院裁決如果沒有認定的話 當事人就要返還所以其實國家並不會因此有損失可是如果就是我們鼓勵收養的角度來講的話既然院版的救保法連這個部分都考慮到了我覺得也不要讓公教人員相對權益不比勞工吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7216.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7240.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
好那可以謝謝那個部長願意演繹喔那這部分我剛剛已經全序部這個部分有提到那所以今天就兩題啦我覺得打造育兒友善的職場國家是公教人員的老闆那國家當然應該要讓公教人員當表率嘛你沒有比勞工就是好就算了不能比現在勞動部主管的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7241.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7260.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
勞工的育兒有限的環境差所以第一個我請考試院的全序部可不可以研究一下民主國家的公教人員育嬰留庭的津貼計算方式那希望評估不低於一般勞工的可行做法我的理想是應該要覺得要更好啦那但是我想我們先從不低於 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7261.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7274.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
目前勞動部改革的一般勞工的可行做法那另外就是嚴寧如何讓公教人員收養子女者也比照一般勞工有平等育兒的留庭津貼勤領的機會好不好就這兩樣可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7277.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7299.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
了解就來看看說我們知道勞工就是以他的薪資去投保我們是用本分這部分剛剛有算出那個差距我們來看看這部分還有沒有什麼可行的方式來減少就像我們把最低不可以低以最低工資已經先走一步然後這個我們再來看看有沒有以公立大學來講他那個加給幾乎佔薪資的一半我知道因為我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7300.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7320.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
不同公務人員那個加級跟薪資的比例大學是剛好超過1比1但是其他的部分都是本縫高於中高階公務人員我想期望你應該比我更了解狀況不一啦因為直領到三分之一那真的非常多人如果家裡靠一分薪水的話是沒有辦法請的我理解我理解我來跟同仁他們好好再來談一下那謝謝部長請問多久內可以給我相關的報告呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7325.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7347.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
這個題目蠻懶的因為它涉及到可能甚至涉及到還有財務面的一個東西是不是給我一點時間啊好不好講一個時間吧三個月好不好三個月喔兩個月不行嗎一定要三個月不行啊好啦那三個月啦希望有正面的答案好不好我們來努力看看有沒有什麼可能性啦國家應該要做表率好謝謝好謝謝范雲委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7352.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7356.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
那接下來請莊瑞雄委員莊昭偉發言謝謝昭偉 邀請我們考試院給全序部請事部長還有吳副秘副秘書長也來了 來 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7377.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7393.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
我想針對兩位就是說這一次我看行政院提出了人口的一個政策的一個新戰略跟育兒政策這個當然看起來我們立法院這個地方有 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7393.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7414.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
有其他委員的版本來提出但這個政策其實是值得來做一個支持尤其是我們這個考試院全序部修正公保法你放寬這個育嬰留庭的一個津貼甚至於子女的部分我看就年齡放寬到七歲然後雙親最長可以去勤領九個月這個方向其實都是正確的對於整個減輕家庭育兒的一個負擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7424.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7438.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
這當然一定會有幫助那到底會不會提升生育的一個意願這個可能就要數據事後再來做一個觀察但是方向大體上其實都是值得來做一個肯定但有幾個問題要來就教就是說像我們公務人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7444.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7467.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
育嬰的一個津貼那低於最低的工資保障的水準的部分我要來就教就是說有多少公務人員我們領不到最低的一個工資的一個水準我看連國防部去統計他說113年那這個七成的官兵育嬰的津貼低於勞工最低的一個投保的一個薪資標準那從 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7469.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7477.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
全序部的資料確實也是顯示就是說你全體的公保配保險人差不多你說50萬嘛你每一檔勤領的育嬰的津貼大概5000多人也就是說你20%的勤領者的 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7486.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7507.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
津貼低於最低的工資百分之八十的一個保障的一個標準那這個看起來喔這個就不是少數年輕新人的一個問題啦就是說這許多已經具備一定的年資甚至於擔任基層主管的公務人員他也落入了這個補貼的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7510.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7518.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
範圍所以說你的基本我們的本俸現在本俸只有29270你去換算育嬰津貼23416的話政府你還要再去補貼144元才可以達到最低的一個工資的一個保障那 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7528.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7553.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
也就是說這出現了一個問題政府我們這次的一個立法裡面反而也去等於間接去承認公務員的一個薪資的一個本縫的結構來看的話它其實是落後的為什麼提出這個問題就是說任何國家政策要去推動公務人員都有帶頭的作用 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7554.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7574.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
我們都有帶頭的作用所以你現在就是說我們現在這個修法你看你說這個補貼就政府一方面說公務人員的跟勞工的制度你們可能會講說公務人員跟勞工制度會不同待遇不能直接去做比較可是我們另外一方面又要用最低工資的作為育嬰津貼的一個保障的一個底線這個其實會碰到一些問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7579.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7608.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
就會反應 你看反應的問題就是我們前陣子大家在那邊炒說公務人員這個離職潮的問題啊那基層公務人員也會給你反應啊我本縫你都不調你只能給他調加級甚至於我這個加班費其實也是有限的那這種狀況的話 你現在育嬰的津貼你都必須要去靠補差額才可以維持這樣基本的一個保障這個我不知道 柏定或者考詮這個地方 副部長你們的看法是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7610.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7629.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
看數字啦我們現在大概五千多個嘛裡面大概有一千多位是確實低於那個最低工資的差不多二十趴啦差不多以他的縫點來講差不多相當於一個高考剛分發的那個六本以下的那一個縫點差不多就會低於 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7629.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7654.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
那個本縫就是最低工資大概是這樣一個數字啦那剛剛委員提到就是說那本縫因為我們的公共人員薪資結構你也知道比較複雜啦所以本縫以後還有專業家只要不同的東西那當然啊所有在一個保險制度裡面我們當初設計公保就是以本縫很多都是用本縫來做基準啦那本縫做基準它就會碰到 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7654.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7677.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
如果那個縫額太低就會換算起來真的是會有差但像退休的部分我們就改用本縫乘以2反過來就是不一樣所以部長其實你也承認這樣的狀況存在那這次立法以後會產生一個什麼問題呢就是說我因為本縫偏低我這個政策來講的話我要申請這個育嬰留庭的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7681.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7684.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
我最怕又因又變不足啦你們有沒有去預估 你知道多少公務人員會真正去受惠還是說你這個補差額以後會不會影響提高申請的一個意願難道你們不會發現這樣的一個問題嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7699.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7718.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
內部有討論跟委員剛剛講的一樣跟委員報告我們真的沒有科學數字來我們做很多對於那個意願有沒有辦法這個我們不用去管他我們只負責呢就認為我們應該多做這種支持性的工作要管嘛假定越高就越有可能有人就良性的 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7719.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7746.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
這個機率就越多人會申請嘛大概只能這樣去處理啦至於說本縫這個事情簡單講我們現在有些本縫大概譬如像說高考進來的本縫六本一以上的大概他大概就是他金額本來就比那個最低工資高啦那所以但是再怎麼算起來他就不是全新啦去投保啊就會出現那個落差但是如果要用全新的話就我剛剛講他會涉及到整個財務結構呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7748.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7761.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
你講這個財務結構我覺得很好啊你像譬如說你最低勞工最低薪資的話你那個最低的工資原則上我看這個是幾乎在逐年在調升對沒錯那你逐年在調升的話你如果本縫的一個結構你不去調整的話那你符合補差額的資格人數也會越來越多那本縫本來調薪的時候本縫也跟著會調啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7773.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7796.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
當然啦 所以你整個補貼的金額也會去增加所以你全區部也必須要去講說你評估說我未來預算的需求到底是多少你補差額的政策是不是可以長期去做一個擴大就是說其實重點是只有一個啦就是說那個薪資結構非常複雜啦非常複雜以後你可以去思考說根本檢討公務人員的本分的一個結構我們到最後就這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7798.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7821.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
本縫的結構那個本縫是幾點幾點的制度但實際上的金額這是行政院的慣例譬如說這樣講385點縫點到底要給他多少錢這行政院負責的不是我們負責我們只負責那個縫點是幾點差距是這樣子啦但是確實那個本縫每次在調薪的時候一定 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7824.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7846.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
4% 5% 本鳳就會跟著調4% 5%過去慣例都是這樣做那他會跟著往上走那委員剛剛問的是這一次我們如果把他最低工資還是在調啊也往上跑啊我們先講以現在 假設我們現在的制度去估算的話大概我們用這個差額大概不多啦政府需要補的差額真的很少啦不多是要多少不多 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7849.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7873.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
大概成幾萬跟兩千萬啦這樣也很少的生意啊但是這個事情就是說當我們把制度放寬以後就如果良性循環就會變成越來越多人會來使用嘛越來越多人使用差額就會補得越來越多嘛所以這個其實是一個情境我很難想像我現在可以去算得那麼精準只是說我們確實有想過這個問題啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7876.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7902.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
其實我對這一次的一個制度的參與育兒的一個新的制度的一個設計修法的一個方向其實我是表達肯定那你說是否採取雙薪都先領滿六個月以後才能再增加三個月或者說現在雙薪最長可能各六個月以現在來看你公務領完育嬰留庭人數現在有多少人 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
7905.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
7918.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
一年三千多 去年三千多人 現在四千多了你們給我的資料 公務人員 育嬰 留庭人數四千四百八十七啦現況 然後降五趴啦但重點是喔 我相信每一個委員的版本都會提到 大家討論會提到女性佔八成啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
7928.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
7946.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
男性要降低到兩成你這次修法當然就是說增加男性申請的一個誘因促進家庭裡面育兒男女大家一起來降低女性職場的生涯裡面跟家庭雙重的一個負擔其實對這樣的一個政策我認為是對的 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
7950.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
7956.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
這一個方向我認為才是最肯認的一個地方我每次一看到我們一看到那個整個留庭的部分都是女生我們男生好像就是好像照顧小孩子沒有男生的事當然一個家庭的一個組成裡面也許夫妻之間會去商量說不然我們不要兩個都大廚我們一個去一個繼續上班可是你怎麼挑挑到最後都是女性去上班 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
7980.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
7992.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
都是女性申請這也很奇怪就是說男生就把這個責任都共同對家庭的支持這個部分好像就是說把這個責任就稍微給拖免掉了這一次的修法男女大家一起來做一個參與 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
7997.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8008.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
這個對於這個育兒也向社會宣示這個不是媽媽一個人的責任這個也是爸爸共同的一個責任這個我們是表達支持啦我是眼淚啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8012.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8036.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
那個其實那個本縫那個部分雖然是複雜可是從這次修法裡面我們真的可以看得出來你如果到最後你是要比照勞工的基本薪資那看起來那個本縫的部分確實是有調整的一個必要啦委員你知道那是素人市長的責任好啦OK這個其實看到問題啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8038.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8051.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
你們最常互動跟行政院最常互動的就是你們看到這個問題其實大家應該是共同去推進因為畢竟任何政策要在國家裡面實施大家都 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8053.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8081.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
一定在看公家機關的一個方向是什麼你去看你去看這個這一次啊我們這個少子女化的問題喔台灣我們現在全世界都沒那麼多嘛你去看韓國你去看匈牙利他們那個多激進的一個財政的一個支持啊那確實是很可怕喔30歲以後你生孩子不用稅金你生三個一輩子全部都不用稅金甚至於你生了小孩 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8083.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8089.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
買房子投機款真的政府幫你出雖然是一百多萬但是有沒有達到效果是讓他停止繼續惡化而已到未必去達到生育率會產生多少全世界經濟發展以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8101.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8118.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
達到人口替代率2.1的只有一個國家就只有以色列以色列又是因為宗教問題不然你說歐洲國家美國他們也都出生率低於人口替代率所以很多人就認為說你不用我只要採移民政策讓更多人來為這個國家貢獻可是這個部分我們又 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8125.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8135.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
制度啊 其實跟別的國家做比較的話 我們又有太多太多的一個考量啊要不然喔 超過五六個喔 都是哪裡你知道嗎 都是非洲啦生小孩生五個六個的全部都是非洲啦那種GDP喔 你看都一千以下的啦那我們這個經濟 這個國民所得一提高以後 大家都不是啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8147.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8151.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
我辦公室的 年輕人的 只有一個孩子 其他全部都沒有所以我們不敢太苛求你們但問題是這個政策推行的方向 草野大家都看到問題但是政府唯一就不能去逼迫 強迫人家生小孩你不用 你也沒辦法但那個提供怎麼樣的誘因 支持 然後對減輕他們的一個負擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8173.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8198.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
這政府其實可以再加大力道來做啦 好不好 好 謝謝謝謝莊昭偉啊 您可能給辦公室同仁工作太多了給他們多放點假 這樣的話可以促進提高生育率 還結婚率這樣 那麼幸福 結果大家還是不婚不生好 那接下來我們有請張雅琳委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8210.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8218.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
好 謝謝 謝謝主席我們有請全旭部跟勞動部次長好 請部長跟次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8224.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8248.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
好 謝謝我想要那個幸福的辦公室助理要幸福辦公室我是建議說我們的這個不要言會言那麼長這樣子的助理才有辦法好好的去研究法案這才是幸福我們自己在講這些育嬰留庭友善企業職場我自己認為我們立法院也要開始做起首先我先請教一下勞動部次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8252.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8270.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
就是說之前這個大家一直有在關注有很多的勞工團體也都非常關注就是勞保投保薪資的級距要跟勞保過去都等於勞保級距嘛這件事情要打開他的天花板那在一個多月前呢部長是說會花一個月的時間去研議那我不曉得說我們目前有沒有相關的進度呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8271.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8286.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
各位朋友我們這次舊保法的修法已經把這個已經有納入了我們就有一個舊保法新增一個法源可以讓舊保法有自己的投保薪資集聚那授權在法律裡面授權保安部來訂這個投保薪資的分期表 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8287.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8310.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
好 了解 謝謝那次長可以請回了請全序部 謝謝那我想全序部可以聽見次長可以請回沒關係那全序部我想部長剛剛有聽到就是說我們勞動部是一直以來一直不停的在去改善我們的育兒友善職場那剛剛也把大家長期以來非常關注的一個集聚上線給打開了所以接下來我就想要請教今天其實也非常非常多的委員來關注的有關於這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8312.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8337.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
育嬰留庭的一個比例為什麼會產生這樣子的問題呢我們可以看到在公務機關的申請育嬰留庭的比例呢是從110年到現在長期以來我們可以看到他的男性的比例都是比較少的先不管男女比例我們光公務人員跟民間來比我們長期以來都是比較低的那為什麼今天有很多委員提出了他們認為是本縫的問題我認為這是其中的一個問題沒有錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8342.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8370.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
所以我想就是說不管是在民間或者是國際都有發現說其實應該要讓在照顧生養子女的時候男性女性都應該要同等的來負責嘛那我想問一下就是說今天這個本封剛剛其實我有聽到你回覆這個范雲委員是說我們其實如果本封要調整可能會有一些人持不同的態度跟意見那我想問的是說我們剛剛也有聽到說你會去做一些相關的調查嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8371.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8399.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
是嗎好像是不一定是調我們會多方再討論這樣一個一個徵詢意見啦應該這樣講好多方徵詢意見那三個月預計剛好是兩個月吧好像會提供那個報告三個月三個月好那這個報告是不是也可以一併的提供到我們辦公室好不好如果報告就一併一併好沒問題那再來就是說那我想問的是說當今天本縫的調整上如果大家的意見非常分歧的話那我們要如何來保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8400.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8406.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
越來越少的育嬰的就是整體人數越來越少的一個育嬰的家庭呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8408.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8430.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
委員老師說我現在沒有辦法很精確回答你這個問題我坦白說 對所以但是這也是我們在三個月你們好好去想想的事情我覺得這件事情就是希望你們一併來思考就是如果說大家對於本縫有些因為相對來說現在育嬰的人就是少嘛對不對因為生養子女的人少了嘛所以如果綜合來說最大的聲音可能是我反對調整這個本縫嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8432.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8457.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
因為他會造成一些人的投報薪資他就要投更多的錢進來嘛 對不對所以可能會收到是這樣子的一個結果那我想問的就是說在這樣子的結果收到之後我希望你們要進一步的去思考我們要如何去保障這些育嬰的家庭因為我們整體的目標還是希望可以去創造一個更平等的育兒育嬰的環境嘛育兒的環境 對不對所以這部分是可以承諾的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8459.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8476.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
我知道我們的目標就是怎麼樣讓育嬰流挺的簡單講他可能男性比例要提高啦最簡單來講就是這樣啦我不完全是從這個角度是說他的津貼本身的比例 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8477.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8495.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
是可以再往上提高這個才是我認為我們應該要來想想要努力的因為其實只有因為在從勞保的數字或是勞動部今年提的育嬰流程一日期之後我們可以看到男性的比例在增加男性女性這個如果從統計學上來講因為兩邊的母體人數本來就不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8500.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8520.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
就是男性跟女性這樣 問題不一樣再加上兩邊到底有多少人生小孩子的比例也不一樣對 但是你看我們現在看百分比嘛對不對我們不看那個母數嘛我們看百分比來說也是男性比較低嘛所以我才是說我們今天去調整這些育兒措施其實才有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8522.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8543.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
本鳳去調整才有可能讓男性願意來這是有可能這是有可能往這個方向走所以我才會說是不是可以請你們進一步的來去思考怎麼樣在本鳳如果大家收集的意見不支持調整的話那我們要如何來確保我們的育兒友善對於家庭來說是支持的再來下一個問題是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8546.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8566.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
目前也有一些 我們看到一些留言我們這邊有收到一些留言就是說他們會其實更擔心的是他如果請了育嬰留庭或是育兒減少工時或是彈性工時他的考積會不會受到影響那他會不會被認為說是因為請了減少工時就未達優良呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8570.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8588.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
這個部分是我們的公務員所擔心的部分那是應該要透過您的想法是說我們應該要來透過這個修法來保障還是說我們還可以做什麼事情讓他們不要有這個擔心呢因為現在看起來就是有很多的潛規則嘛即便你們做了很多的不達還是有很多的潛規則 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8590.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8607.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
不會列入那個烤雞的一個部分還有彈性減工時我們一些相關的新的新制之後我們來做一個了解好不好這個部分我覺得除了要做宣導之外我覺得宣導不能只有一個公文命令宣導我覺得可能還是要找一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8609.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8635.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
看用什麼樣子的方式讓誘人機關更了解這件事情對他們的好處是什麼為什麼我會這麼說呢其實就是在企業來說有很多的主管們一開始其實也不是那麼支持但是因為他們後來發現其實如果他可以對女性的員工或是對育兒家庭更友善的話是更能夠讓他們對於這個職場是更有相信力的所以我想這部分的好處還是要來做宣導好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8636.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8644.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
那再來另外一個部分就是說我們到底知不知道有多少人有育兒需求呢我們這份好像是沒有統計對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8645.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8674.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
我印象中有育兒需求人事總署以前曾經有調查過倒不是育兒需求是那個推動那個職場的那個領導那個托育的一個事情有調查過需求但是應該是以前有做過這個統計但是有沒有每年都做我不清楚沒有因為只有到因為我們對於105年我們現在只有在這個育有3歲以下子女是公務人員統計表好像只有到110年還是人總要 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8676.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8697.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
說明一下因為據我們所知啦好像是說因為救福法第五條的規定所以已經把這類資料的收集呢再從公務履歷表裡面刪除了我們不可以收集那個多少小孩子對齁但是問題是這樣子我們到這個你了解需求跟你有多少小孩子這應該是兩件事吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8698.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8724.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
對吧 這個就是需要調查嘛 對不對因為之前告訴我們就是涉及救福法可是應該救福法裡面沒有說你不能做這個調查嘛對不對 對吧所以說是不是說因為如果我們都沒有辦法掌握公務人體系裡面到底有多少人正在育兒有多少人可能有這樣子的需求的話我們在做一些友善家庭的規劃的時候我們可能就缺乏一個資料基礎 對不對是不是 部長您認同嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8725.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8749.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
有資料是絕對是有幫助啦那是不是可以在三個月內呢來研議一套合法去識別化以政策統計為目的的資料收集機制讓未來的公部門在育兒相關措施的話會有明確的需求盤點會有一個非常理性科學的資料基礎可以嗎跟委員報告因為即使我們要做任何需要的話我們也不能強迫性一定要回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8750.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8760.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
當然當然當然所以我才是說你是不是研議一套合法的嘛合法去識別化以政策統計的這部分三個月內可以這個部分我印象中 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8761.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8785.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
我來跟總書好好談一下這個事情我印象中以前總書為了要 行政院為了要推那個就是那個在辦公室裡面有開辦那個零到一歲那個空間然後就有調查說你這裡有多少人表示有這個需求曾經有做過這個調查但是有沒有持續做我就不是很清楚了 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8785.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8806.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
好那這部分是不是可以了解一下然後如果沒有的話這應該很快就可以了解出來啦那如果沒有的話是不是三個月內我們就來研議這一套制度呢這個機制好了啦機制研議這個機制並沒有表我們來看看啦好不好我會跟委員報告這件事情不好意思這跟委員可以再講清楚一點嗎部長你的concern是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8808.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8833.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
老實說我的考慮還是會涉及到強迫性雖然委員提到說在合法的一個情況但是這有很多的企業都在執行這樣子吧市長勞動部市長對吧有很多企業其實都有可以回覆一下嗎因為很多的企業或是他們可能也會去了解一下大型企業他也會去了解一下現在大家在育兒職場上面在職場上面可以怎麼樣的提供更好的育兒支持是不是有做一些相關的調查呢市長有掌握嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
8836.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
8859.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
是 高偉就我們了解其實我們最近這半年多來的宣導其實越來越多企業是表達他們是為了留住這更多的人才願意來提供育兒的一個友善環境的對 可是他們應該也會針對員工的一些需求來去改善他們企業的環境吧對 這個確實是一個我們了解的一個趨勢好 了解 謝謝好 那我想部長抱歉 |