| IVOD_ID |
17542 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17542 |
| 日期 |
2026-06-24 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-35-23 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第23次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
23 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第23次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2026-06-24T08:35:11+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-06-24T11:39:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:03:49 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/7a505bc1fba11f2d0f3d5f6e9ef4dbd4677c2502574f3b5eed7231b3d2e2f92a5a2ad7600a4150c75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-06-24T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第23次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告「教召制度公平性、後備軍人實戰化施訓成效與女性召訓配套措施」，並備質詢。
（6月24日及25日二天一次會）） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:35:11 - 11:39:00 |
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1696.179 |
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報告委員會出席委員9人已足法定人數 |
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1701.223 |
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1729.198 |
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我們現在開始開會請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第十一屆第五會期外交及國防委員會第二十二次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國一百一十五年六月十七日星期三上午九十八分至十十五分地點紅樓三零一會議室出席委員陳永康等十三人列席委員鄭振淺等五人請教委員黃仁列席人員國防部副部長許思簡及所屬人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1729.838 |
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1756.404 |
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行政院主席總署基金預算處專門委員戴群芳主席陳昭吉委員冠廷報告事項宣讀上次會議議事錄決定確定討論事項繼續審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於國防部主管非營業基金一作業基金一國軍生產及服務作業基金二國軍老舊眷村改建基金三國防醫學大學軍事教育基金二資本計劃基金國軍營設及設施改建基金 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1761.196 |
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1787.957 |
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決議審查結果國防部主管依作業基金國軍生產及服務作業基金依業務計劃因依據業務收支轉投資固定資產建設改良擴充及資金運用等向之審查結果隨同調整二業務收支依業務總收入原列434億6899萬7千元增列依服務事業業務收入向下勞務收入之服務收入100萬元二福利及文教事業業務收入向下勞務收入之服務收入100萬元 |
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1790.038 |
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1802.182 |
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以上共計增列200萬元其餘均造列改列為434億7099萬7千元二業務總支出原列420億1588萬1千元減列生產事業生產事業業務成本與費用3600萬元含消耗成本500萬元管理及總務費用2500萬元及研究發展及訓練費用研究發展費用600萬元其餘均造列改列為419億7988萬1千元 |
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1820.03 |
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1824.691 |
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3.本期剩餘原列14億5,311萬6千元增列3,800萬元改列為14億9,111萬6千元3.結繳公共金額無列數4.轉投資計劃無列數5.固定資產建設改良擴充45億2,122萬1千元造列6.國庫撐撥基金額無列數7.通過決議7項 |
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1844.37 |
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1859.92 |
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2 作業基金 國軍老舊眷村改建基金 業務計劃依據業務收支轉投資 固定資產建設改良 擴充及資金運用等向之審查結果隨同調整2 業務收支 1 業務總收入11億8162萬8千元造列2 業務總支出8億4552萬6千元造列 本期剩餘3億3610萬2千元造列 |
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1868.55 |
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1878.123 |
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深結繳公庫金額無劣數市轉投資計畫無劣數無固定資產建設改良擴充無劣數六國庫增波基金額無劣數七通過決議八項 |
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1880.648 |
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1894.413 |
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3.作業基金國防醫學大學軍事教育基金1.業務計劃因依據業務收支轉投資固定資產建設改良或衝擊資金應用等向之審查結果水統調整2.業務收支1.業務總收入9億5,653萬元造列2.業務總支出9億6,139萬9千元造列3.本期短促 |
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1901.383 |
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1922.945 |
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四百八十六万九千元造列升级小公库金额无列数市转投资计划无列数五固定自然建设改良扩充一亿六千四百三十万三千元造列六国库增拨基金额一亿五千七百四十三万八千元造列四资本计划基金国均营设及设施改建基金一业务计划应依据基金来源及 |
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1924.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1939.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
與用途審查結果隨同調整二 基金來源用途及餘處一 基金來源原列178億71萬6千元增列收入向下基金來源之財產收入5千萬元其餘均照列改列為178億5000年71萬6千元二 基金用途原列215億8111萬8千元減列老舊顏色整建8千萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1947.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1957.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
工程及設施整建計畫2000萬元工具減列1億元其餘均造列改列為214億8111萬8千元生本期短促延列37億8040萬2千元減列1億5000萬元改列為36億3040萬2千元生結繳供戶無劣數市補辦預算固定資產建設改良擴充58億7265萬5千元造列 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1974.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1999.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
5.115年度中央政府總預算案國防部主管國軍生產及服務作業基金國軍老舊眷村改建基金國防醫學大學軍事教育基金及國軍營舍及設施改建基金附屬單位預算均審查完略審查結果送財政委員會會診後提報院會不需交由黨團協商院會討論時由陳召集委員冠廷出席說明六本次預算審查如有預算科目金額或 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2000.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2003.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
文字物質授權議事人員調整宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2008.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2030.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
請問在場委員對於上次會議議事錄有遺漏或錯誤需要更正之處沒有我們議事錄確定請議事人員宣讀報告事項報告事項 邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告教昭制度公平性後備軍人實戰化私訊成效與女性教昭訓配套措施並被質詢 宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2034.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2049.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我們現在介紹在場委員以及與會的官員首先介紹陳永康陳委員王逸川王委員以及今天國防部列席所有官員顧立雄顧部長陳文新陳常務次長全民防衛動員署廖建新廖署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2061.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2081.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
總督察長是盧建忠總督察長石文榮是參事政府辦公室孫立芳孫主任政治作戰局史順文史局長軍備局林文祥林局長主計局謝祺賢謝局長軍醫局陳元浩陳局長戰略規劃司黃文綺黃司長 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2090.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2114.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
資源規劃司藍靜婷藍司長法律事務司吳義勝吳司長整合評估司史其良史副司長國防採購司趙雅萍趙主任人事參謀次長是王志輝王次長情報參謀次長是謝日升謝次長作戰及計劃參謀次長是侯嘉倫侯次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2120.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2136.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
後勤參謀次長是李鳳翔理事長通信電子資訊參謀次長是謝俊山謝次長訓練參謀次長是郭俊德郭次長陸軍司令部陳建義參謀長海軍司令部朱惠民參謀長空軍司令部李慶然參謀長 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2146.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2173.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
後備指揮部薛淵泉薛參謀長憲兵指揮部張純志張參謀長陸軍後勤指揮部梁永坤梁參謀長資通電軍指揮部周文祥周參謀長軍事情報局李永康李執行長電訊發展事林振維林執行長國防大學李承忠李教育長 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2175.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2194.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
國家中山科學研究院李士強理院長本日會議邀請國防部顧立雄部長報告教招制度公平性後備軍人實戰化師訓成效與女性教招訓配套措施並被質詢現在請顧部長上台報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2208.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2223.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
主席 各位委員先進今天非常榮幸應邀到大院委員會進行專案報告承蒙各位委員對國安安全及提升後備戰力政策規劃的關切與指導再次表達誠摯的謝意 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2225.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2244.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
因應中共對我軍事威懾與日俱增,我動員預警準備時間壓縮為達成後備軍人暫時快速恢復戰力目的,擬定教育召集訓練政策藉由增加訓練頻次、延長失訓時間及強化訓練課程等 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2251.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2276.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
精進做法,有效提升後備戰力,達成動員及備戰之目標接續由全民防衛動員署署長廖建興中將就國軍教召制度公平性、後備軍人實戰化私訊成效與女性招訓配套措施向各位委員實施報告,敬請各位委員先進指導與支持,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2289.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2312.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
國軍教召制度公平性 後備軍人實戰化私訊成效與女性招訓配套措施專案報告 報告人 權重署署長廖建興一 前言 近年中共持續積極擴張軍事能力加強灰色地帶襲擾 實施針對性軍演等軍事威脅作為造成台海安全情勢日益嚴峻 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2313.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2338.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
而面对敌军军事行动快速的威胁影响我动员预警准备时间所以自110年起逐年检讨精进后备军人教育召集政策规划以有效提升后备战力达成动员及备战的目标现警救国军教召制度实战化私训成效及女性招训的配套说明如后二 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2338.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2356.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
国军教召制度有关教育召集资格年限及人员选冲的方式需依兵役法兵役法施行法及召集规则等规范来办理相关政策执行说明如下一教育召集资格及年限 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2357.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2371.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
依兵役法施行法第27條規定教育召集在退伍後8年內以4次為限每次不得超過20天但本部得視軍事需要著徵年限、次數及時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2372.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2389.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
本部在110年因為軍事需要公告將軍事官交易召集邊管的年限著徵至退伍後12年內士兵能維持8年內因此後備軍人在邊管的年限內且交易召集次數未滿4次者 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2391.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2407.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
均纳入年度的教育召集训练并超过教育召集边管年限的后备军人依军师需要纳入暂时动员召集的对象平时不实施教育召集动员令发布时仍应依令来报到 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2409.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2417.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
第二 人員選充方式 教育召集對象依招訓部隊缺員所需的編制階級及專長選定編管年限內及在營時具有相關專長者納入選充 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2424.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2449.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
第三 教召次数的计算一 14天教育召集至111年起实行当时仍以5至7天教育召集的制度来并行所以给予参训14天的后备军人适当的折抵与鼓励以两次劣迹随着5至7天教育召集梯次逐年减少至115年起教育召集全面改为14天的训期 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2450.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2474.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
原統一調整14天教育召集列計為一次第二教育召集次數的計算系以接獲召集令並實際報到入營參訊為原則若符合兵役法第43條比如說患病不堪行動本人家庭發生重大事故中等以上學校的在校生民意代表正值會期中 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2475.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2499.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
因故赴国外、正在航行于国外的船员、拘押或徒刑在职行中者以及其他特殊因素有名定者,都可以申请免除本次召集前述申请免除本次召集者,经全职机关核准,为实际入营授训,则该次不列计较招次数的计算 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2501.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2522.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
3.實戰化師訓成效為達成後備軍人暫時快速恢復戰力的目的藉由提高動員人力專長相輔率增加招訓評測延長訓練時間及強化訓練課程等精進做法其能有效提升後備戰力達成動員及備戰的目標相關做法說明如下 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2524.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2528.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
提升貨幣部隊戰力逐年擴增14天教招訓練員額同步檢討訓練課程 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2533.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2553.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
在114年實施14天課程以及訓練方式的驗證證明14天教召可以縮短恢復戰力時程所以自115年起不再實施5到7天的教召採全面實施14天教召將人員選衝的順序調整為優先編時動員其次為擴編動員並服役常備主戰及步兵守備部隊採援兵歸援衛的選衝做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2561.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2578.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
提高動員人力專長相輔力以確保貨輩部隊具備立即可用的戰力二為了提升訓練強度115年教召訓練配合作戰概念調整及削弱戰略指導一作戰計劃在迎年戰術地區實施報到、溯營以及師訓 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2583.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2608.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
課程依應現代戰場可能面臨的景況實施專長附訓使後備軍人維持戰鬥技能熟悉戰營時的專長並依各軍種兵科專長結合部隊現行編制武器訓練至重點在可提升後備軍人實戰射擊能力的步槍快速反應射擊機槍及各式破砲等編制武器射擊訓練並結合聯合作戰計畫在作戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2613.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2637.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
作战计划演练课程中新增机动部署接敌运动及战力整补等战绩训练同时纳入无人机的基础训练及战伤救护以提升后备部队对新形态的作战适应力强化后备军人战斗技能达到后备部队实战化的训练目标三至115年起采原兵归原位的选冲作法 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2638.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2644.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
動員人力專長相扶力可以達到93%使後備軍人形成固定編組並藉實戰化訓練維持後備軍人的戰績以快速恢復戰力 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2650.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2671.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
是女性招训的配套现行女性志愿役军官士官与士兵退伍后碍于纳入后备役边管的法源存有落差为了使女性后备军人边管政策一致性目前已着手研修入海空军军官士官服役条例以及志愿役士兵服役条例 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2673.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2682.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
是法案審議通過並修正公佈後配合依修正的內容規範將女性後備軍人納入後備役管理及召集 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2683.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2712.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
考量女性後輩軍人目前仍有參訓教育召集的意願為了鼓勵積極參訓本部在111年制定公佈後輩軍人召集優待條例並配合該條例第四條的授權訂定後輩軍人召集獎金核發及志願參加召集辦法規範男女性後輩軍人志願參加召集的程序自112年起辦理女性志願參加教育 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2712.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2729.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
教育召集訓練第一女性後備軍人參訓的資格對象為退伍12年內的女性官士兵後備軍人符合常備一體位並審查沒有犯內亂外患讀酒駕賭博妨礙風化詐欺中立貪污經有罪判決 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2736.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2763.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
還起訴處分確定或通緝在案尚未結案或違反《毒品危害防治條例》受觀察、勒戒、強制戒制的裁定或受行政裁罰確定處分者等情形二、訓練規範女訓後備軍人自願參訓軍醫單位課程與男訓後備軍人共同訓練為宿營及牧役等比照現役國軍內部管理工作教範規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2764.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2786.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
以安全為主 源於規劃 必利管制五 感謝大院委員指導面對嚴峻的敵情威脅為確保後備部隊具備立即可用的戰力教育召集制度的轉型以精進有其迫切性及必要性制度的調整的確需要社會的理解支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2788.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2806.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
對近期教召政策調整所引發的討論本部後續將加大政策溝通的力道落實資訊透明公開向大眾妥善說明制度變革的考量讓全民國防在既有的基礎上穩健推動敬請各位委員先進予以指導支持謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2810.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2825.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
好我們現在開始詢答本會委員8加2分鐘非本會委員5分鐘10點30分截止發言登記如果臨時提案請於10點30分之前提出11點左右處理現在請王逸川委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2835.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2861.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
好 謝謝主席 我們請顧部長跟我們權東署的署長請顧部長還有權東署署長是 王偉永部長請問這個叫招的名冊是機密嗎叫招的名冊我想這涉及那個各自的要保護就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2863.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2884.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
現在有多少,有誰在被叫招這個是不是機密?這應該是屬於公務機密的一部分公務機密嘛,就是事先不會知道寄出去之前不會有人知道嗎?我們是在每一年的這12月之後,大概12月25到1月1號會在網上公開 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2890.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2916.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
下一年的那個流入,那時候就會有,只能查自己的只能查自己有沒有被叫招在哪一個時段會被叫招第二個叫招過程中,過去有沒有發生裡面有人去試探軍情?或者是因為一般人不能去旁邊,大陸就叫招 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2919.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2929.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
阿我大一百阿,我去測會阿,我去吃探軍情阿,我去看這些文件,有沒有發現過阿? |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2935.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2956.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
我們當然要緩緩滲透的工作,要做好環境保護,不過在叫召的期間,手機應該是要納入收腳的範圍所以在叫召的期間,我想我們會盡量來防堵這樣的狀況發生就是有防堵,但是目前還沒有發現 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2958.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2980.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
校招的期間,我的印象所及似乎沒有這樣的案例,就我的印象所及有這樣的機制就好了第三個我們過去校招歷史上的士兵,最老的是幾歲被校招?就是士兵退伍八年內會被 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2982.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3002.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
列入教召選稱,那他廚藝就是36歲我那譬如說他博士班念完嘛,30幾歲,那就去做兵,做兵以後沒辦法去用教召他在做廚藝對,我就說他去教召嘛,教召你現在統計起來最老的是幾歲啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3004.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3032.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
因為跟委員報告就是說士兵除役的年紀是36的話那麼他在服役不管他在哪個時節點服役服役如果過了36歲他就不會納入教召的範圍所以就是跟大家說你如果超過36歲在士兵你就不可能接到教召嘛這個是確定啦那如果是官呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3037.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3050.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
他一階級不一樣除役那軍官、士官他邊管年限剛剛有報告就是12年退伍後12年內除役就是按階級50到58歲都有 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3053.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3079.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
50到58歲,看他退伍的階級所以有可能50幾歲,也有可能叫人照召就對了市館長是58歲,校級也是58我想這些資訊因為網路都會傳應該是結合12年加除役這兩件事情要我知道啦,我想說你們在蘇雄啦,你們在蘇雄一定有 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3080.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3081.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
我年紀這麼大了還來背教召啦 我不知道他幾歲啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3097.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3111.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
但是他覺得他年紀大為什麼會被叫招,他有可能在博士班年紀大他也有可能做兵了不過我們現在的政策上還是採後退先招啦,就是說原則上還是現在最 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3113.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3137.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
要後退的我們來先因為我們要恢復集戰力這是我們的政策目標嘛那政策目標的話採原併歸原位的話還是希望他後退的先遭這樣的原則在做現在我們各級學校啦各校各中各中台下的老師會不會被遭遭老師是在納入緬他是緩除禁招的對象 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3143.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3154.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
什麼意思就是緩就是緩招然後他學校的人事部門就必須要幫他辦理在他在校的時候他要幫他辦理然後專科三年級以前 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3155.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3181.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
專科三年級前還有所有國中國小以及高中老師都會列入這個緩招的範圍就是學校幫忙申請對學校要幫忙所以他就不會在你們要叫招的名冊裡頭那你們有提出一個原則叫原兵歸原位嘛一本隊做什麼兵種的就去原位請問無人機這件事情是幾乎所有兵種回去去用叫招回去的都會蒙到無人機嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3183.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3197.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
現在新式的教召的14天都會有無人機的基礎訓練差不多上幾個小時的課?兩個小時兩個小時兩個小時跟他介紹無人機、遙控飛機差不多他們有沒有操作?有兩個小時他就有辦法操作? |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3212.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3235.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
基礎訓練我覺得這個要分成兩個概念一個是它本身的部隊的編制武器有沒有比如說它是無人機大隊那它這個回去它要做專長護訓的話那麼它在叫召的時候做專長護訓它要驗證它的無人機的功能 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3235.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3264.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
那如果他的這個編制的部隊裡面他沒有相關的無人機但是我們為了要讓每一個人都能夠認識無人機所以還是會有安排無人機的一個課程那詳細的這個講各軍種可能編的時間是不一致的那網路說如果有被叫招過了就會再被抽到沒被叫招過了就不會被抽到這個傳言是真的假的 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3266.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3280.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
應該不是,因為我們招訓的這個目的還是要依照我們所要動員的相關的一個專長然後編制的他所需要的相關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3281.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3295.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
朋友、同學會問說要被召召,奇怪你去年召召、今年召召,你想我都沒有召召大家會討論這個,就一個傳言說有被召召過的人,就在被召召的機會比較大如果不去召召,基本上機會比較小,這個是你們設定的原則還是怎樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3304.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3313.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
第一個後退先用後退先補這是一個原則第二個就是原兵歸原位比如說我是戰車駕駛或是戰車車長這個是比較屬於中高專長的 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3320.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3334.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
那這種專長的資料水庫裡面可能人比較少所以說他在邊管連線內他可能就會被招到4次但如果說一般步槍兵什麼這種專長很多的那聽起來就是說你如果專長喔 叫別人比較沒工會讓這個人比較少 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3338.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3364.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
你希望藉著機會大一點?委員就是說因為我們的目的是要使納入後備的後備軍人恢復他的軍事專長跟部隊協同作戰所以他必須還是要考量他的部隊任務階級他的軍事專長然後跟鞭使的一個需求那作為一個主要的考量我大概理解你們的意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3365.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3390.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
現在去用教召的人他可以申請當次的教召嘛現在這種申請的比例啊高還是低啊在你們整體教召有到5%嗎?志願申請對,就是說他現在去用教召的時候,哇!我就要出國你教召拜祂,通常我拜祂去報道,我拜祂的基票才要好了,就是說這一種 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3393.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3398.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
申請和免的任務我看了近三年大概2萬出頭平均高達20%左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3405.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3419.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
你叫100個有20個申請說他有那個原因,就是兵役法的相關規定他可以申請的,有20%的人申請啊?合免他有一個兵役法第43條他有規定,有一個標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3422.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3432.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
應該是說他那個講和免的比例他按照殯儀法43條他不是只有出國啦他就必須要有幾多原因包括家庭的啦還有相關因 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3438.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3459.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
因事出國外那因事出國外的部門的了解是說他必須要在前一年公告的前之前他就有安排出國的這個狀況他不能夠等到說接到這個教育召集之前的令之前那他臨時再安排出國那這個可能會被 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3460.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3467.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
會屬於被管制的事項我說現在申請和免的你剛才20%是什麼意思20%被准還是你們名冊有100人有20%他就申請過了還是怎麼樣他 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3476.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3503.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
那個核免的你要不要直接那個20%是什麼概念它是以核免比像說今年度總共有100人被核免其中只有20個人是屬於出國的因素不是說所有的100個人好那申請核免的佔你要徵集的要叫召的大概多少就是統計啊每年就近3年全部核免的總人數大概每年都是2萬出頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3505.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3512.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
那你們每年徵交召多少人我們下令是11到12萬12萬分之2萬6分之1對啦大概 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3521.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3546.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
好沒有關係,這個事後你們再釐清,我只是想要了解說被叫招的人,他申請說這一次可不可以不要去嘛這個比例現在看起來超過百分之十,這樣的一個數字他這裡有一個統計數字,就是說河緬東化重大事故是七千多個那出國大概是五千多個這樣,大概是有一個這樣的一個數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3547.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3556.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
其他的部分,還有其他各款的情況,有一個詳細的數字統計,如果委員有需要我們再提供接下來請羅美玲委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3576.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3579.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
謝謝主席 有請顧部長還有權東署廖署長請顧部長還有權東署署長羅遠 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3591.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3619.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
部長好 部長就如剛剛我們國防部的報告裡面所提到了我們為了要讓女性後備軍人納入這個後備役管理跟這個召集所以國防部正在著手研修這個陸海空軍軍官士官服役條例跟志願士兵的服役條例其實在現行的這個法令裡面其實女士志願士兵其實她退伍以後其實是有納入預備役的嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3620.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3647.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
只有女性志願軍事官她退伍之後她是依她的志願來扶植嘛對不對 署長一直在點頭嘛所以其實現行的法令我們女性志願士兵其實呢她就已經納入了這個後備的這個體系裡面可是呢教招的部分呢雖然法令是納入了教招呢這麼多年以來對女性的這個士兵我們有進行所謂的教招嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3649.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3667.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
除了我們曾經辦過一個叫做志願參加召集之外,沒有類似像對男性退伍後的後備軍人的部分來進行教召 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3668.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3694.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
是所以過去的話只有男性的志願士兵或是軍士官才有所謂的教召可是女性志願士兵雖然法令有規範可是卻是按照他的而且是112年才開始女性志願參加教召訓練嘛對不對112年辦理那個女性的就是說她服過役以後然後她是可以志願參加教召訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3696.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3723.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
是的那我們現在來修這個法令單我們有看到就是說因為這個女性後備役的這個邊管法源存有落差志願士兵已經有納入了可是軍事官卻是志願所以基於這個性別平權所以現在考慮要來做這個做調整好那之前我在看到一篇這個女性退伍軍人的投書2024年的投書 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3725.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3746.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
那她說過往呢她是被豁免在叫招之外這樣的豁免對她來說卻是一種排除因為無法叫招所以呢這位女性脫武軍人認為她的後備軍人身份並沒有被重視而且也不會有其他針對軍事專長的訓練更不會有近身的管道 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3747.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3760.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
這是一個身為一個女性脫武軍人她的投書她有提到這個部分那我想請教一下好 112年我們開始辦理女性志願參加教招訓練那這個志願報名的人數都不多 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3761.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3764.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
坦白講不多,從112年到140年大概完訓的是79人,那今年的話合定是10個,要完訓3個 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3780.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3797.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
完全三個所以從112年開始實施這個自願參加以來其實還是不是很多的那未來法令修了之後呢我們這些女性的退伍軍人全部都是要納入這個教召的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3799.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3826.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
就是如同委員所說的因為會納入交叉當然一定要先服過役嘛那女性現在沒有要服役務役嘛所以女性會納入後備的一定是先服志願役她從志願役不管是從軍官士官或士兵退伍之後那才會納入後備軍人來邊關那我們現在只是修法讓她更明確就是說我們也可以對志願役 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3827.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3843.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
退伍下來的這些女性的軍官士官士兵來進行這個教召那很多女性我想在單位也都表現得非常好那麼從我們現在原兵歸原位的政策上來看的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3843.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3863.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
他其實是還是可以貢獻那我們希望來這個納入後備軍人然後來納入教召那當然這一點也希望國人能夠支持也就是說對於從事志願役的女性的軍官士官士兵都能夠跟就一樣可以接受教召這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3864.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3891.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
那再來就是我們國防部呢其實在2023年的時候就有預告修正陸海空軍軍事事關服役條例那時候我所看到的就是說它其實還是有一個分水嶺因為基於這個信賴保護原則其實它是要不要全數納入其實是有一個分水嶺的是不是在這個法修訂之前跟之後其實它有分自願跟強制納入對不對這是有一個分水嶺的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3892.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3905.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
這個就是我們正在審議的一個部分也就是說從什麼時候要將它納入當然這涉及到委員所講的信賴保護原則我們會再跟行政院好好來審議這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3910.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3930.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
針對這個議題 剛剛部長一直強調說那是要服過疫的 自願疫的女性才會列入這個教召可是最近我們就看到有一些媒體就是用片段的訊息來造謠說國防部修法強制女性來做教召當然讓民眾誤以為說全國所有女性都要納入教召的對象實際上並沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3931.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3940.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
並沒有嘛就自願意的女性才有義務接受教召教召的概念是對後備軍人後備軍人的意思就是他之前曾經服過役 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3942.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3963.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
我們現在又沒有對女性要服役所以女性會變納婦,後備軍人一定是她自願的那我們現在自願役的女性軍官士官士兵應該有占到百分之十六他們表現都很傑出 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3964.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3980.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
是 是所以像這對這種謠言啊 造謠的話其實我們應該也要遞時間出來就是做澄清用比較白話的這個言語去做這個澄清不然的話我發現最近真的有人在帶風向耶好 這部分的話請我們這個國防部要來注意對 我們來努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3984.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4001.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
是 除此之外那還有本席也有注意到就是對於這個青年動員的這個部分現在在這個我們國防部之前呢教育部之前有配合我們群動署呢他有訂定了這個青年扶勤動員準備分類計劃嘛從114年就已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4005.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4016.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
來做推行了嘛那現在已經116年了我想請問一下像這一個分類計畫的話前凍署跟學校這邊做配合都是針對高中生嘛對不對 是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4017.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4038.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
我想現在講的那個青年扶勤的學校青年扶勤這個是教育部所規劃的所以第一個不可能讓學校的青年上站船這是第一點第二點教育部所規劃的也沒有涉及到說要讓他涉及做民房的工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4038.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4057.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
所以它純粹就是說在讓它能夠發生不管是災難的時候或者不管是任何發生緊急狀況的時候它能夠有這個避難、急救、護救、護住的這個基本的智能這樣子那這個純粹就是這樣子的一個目的 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4058.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4080.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
因為我有看到這個是因為權動法裡面第15條有提到是為確保動員實施階段獲得所需人力然後其中對學校青年動員服勤等事業進行規劃所以基本上來講學校也是因為這個權動法的關係所以也有來做實施這一點也很抱歉因為是大家會看到權動法會覺得說這是我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4083.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4091.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
國防部有在要進行動員我想這個要特別特別的澄清這跟我們國防部的這個動員是一點關係都沒有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4093.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4099.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
是 因為我有看到這個116年度學校青年服刑動員準備分類計畫它裡面有講到這個執行構想它的目的是在國家面臨災難或緊急狀況的時候應落實青年服刑這個規劃它其實這個計畫其實很多都是一些課程嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4113.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4143.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
他就是協助做一些避難的引導甚至說一些社區的關懷公共服務跟行政資源這些樣子的一個知識所以我是在覺得說像這個計畫雖然是教育部在推行可是在面臨這種錯誤的訊息的時候其實國防部應該也要同時間出來去做說明因為他這個誤導的方向就是說你就是讓這些孩子上戰場所以像國防不是單單只有 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4144.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4162.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
這個教育部出來我看到教育部是有出來澄清他說這主要是因為為了應付這個讓孩子能夠在面臨當這個學生在國家面臨災難跟緊急狀況的時候可以呢來知道怎麼來救災我有看到這個部分可是呢當大家把他跟這個學生上戰場這個部分來做這個結合然後再做流傳的時候就國防部應該也應該要跟這個教育部起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4169.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4171.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
我們要明確排除有任何有關資源 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4176.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4199.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
不管是軍或警或民防的這些勤務人物他主要目的就是在強化消防安全跟災害應變的能力這一點我想我們會再持續來宣導OK 好 謝謝 謝謝部長那再來還有一點就是說像新制的這個教章已經上路了當然還有一些人他們就提到就是說可能還有武器裝備不足 人員訓練不到位 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4199.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4220.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
居民可能還有一些不信任 尤其是去參加教召的可能就是一般的民眾所以可能他們還是覺得說指揮體系跟民間是有一些脫節的那再來還有一點還蠻嚴重的就是我們認知作戰的這部分在課程上面認知作戰這部分好像在課程上面是比較缺乏的這部分能說明一下嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4221.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4249.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
首先第一點就是跟委員報告就是說這個十四天的教育召集訓練我們事實上每一個相關的這些要有的課程各軍總會來有一個模式化的一個課表那我們這些有先在彰化先驗證過那後來覺得這樣子才能夠比較快速的恢復他的實戰的能力所以我們後來才推行這個制度這個是經過相當的驗證的那有關相關的這些課程都 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4250.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4277.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
譬如說很強調他回到援兵國永遠以他專長的護訓跟建設也就是他要回去以後馬上去熟忍他相關的原來他的能力那當然另外有一些實戰射擊的部分也包括了步槍快速的反應射擊那最重要另外還有一個作戰計畫演練因為這些作戰計畫包括不管是機動部署或者是接敵的運動或者戰力的整補等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4277.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4282.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
那這些都要納入我們這14天來做那另外 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4284.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4308.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
你講的這個認知作戰我們是利用在夜間的夜教的時候來實施這樣子所以這個是補強是不是當然我有看到就是說心智教召我有看到一連串的大家的一些對於心智教召的一些投書也好或是說提出意見也好當然是說有從一開始到現在我們國防部我們權動署一直有在做調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4309.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4329.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
針對一開始可能有些譬如說裝備不足的部分有做調整可是他們一直認為說任職作戰的部分一直都是不足的這個課程的話是不是也要做加強我們現在任職作戰的這個部分在十字夜教的部分到底是不是足夠這一件事情我想我會請他們各軍種在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4333.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4347.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
這個設計這個課表的時候再來加強注意因為他本身在就會有包括通識課程愛國教育還有認知作戰等等那有關現在要特別要強調的一些對於認知的作戰的一個理解我們可以來再檢討一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4349.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4368.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
OK 好那當然為了這個全民國防的這個韌性對於這一次這個不管教召也好或是女性士兵或是軍官納入這個後備的這個納管的體系我們覺得國人都會支持啦這部分呢國防部在努力好 以上謝謝好 謝謝委員好 謝謝接下來請陳永康委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4388.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4409.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
好 主席有請顧部長請顧部長以及權動署署長權動署署長是 陳偉陽部長好我把權動署做的這份非常詳細的報告把它做了一個邏輯性的架構分析 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4410.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4437.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
那麼從他的前提到他的依據到他的核心目標方法手段挑戰那我特別在挑戰部分請全董署您做幾個回答因為你強調的這個補登錄退伍後取得民間專長的證照那軍方如何主動及時借鑒民間人才庫這部分請署長做個回答我先請說因為這個部分我們一直在 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4440.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4467.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
會非常多的努力跟討論是委員好第一個就是有關於特殊專長的這一部分那我們有幾類型的部隊比如說通知電軍訪這些特殊專長的我們是可以用指名來申請也就是說這些人即便退伍了但是我們都有掌握他具備這樣的專長 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4469.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4487.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
然後我們在叫召的時候我們就直接指定指定這個人來佔這個位置來做這個事情這是一種另外就是對於我們有一些專長很重要但是目前資料我們的水庫動員水庫並不足比如說我們現在有一些領導幹部不夠的 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4490.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4506.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
或者是一些特殊的專長那我們現在正在研究怎麼樣結合民間專長來沖淡這個君子專長我們叫做精準選員來補充現在我們也是在做這方面的作業 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4509.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4529.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
那有關這個醫務室啊那這個部分怎麼樣補充因為到動員不只是動員到了戰時啊戰傷是一個很嚴肅的問題在醫務室關的這部分醫務室剛剛這樣提到那個在特殊專長的裡面那個那個有關 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4533.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4558.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
醫護的這一個部分是屬於我們會依照我們的需求然後對這個把它納入所以我們會將他的這個醫事能力把它放入在一個欄位裡面那有關各部隊或者是我們在納入這個年度動員的時候我們就把它做一個能力的選中來運用這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4560.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4584.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
因為醫護是一個特別的專長那我在想請軍醫局跟全動數在平常橫向聯繫上面這個人員的納管到底到時候是歸軍醫院呢還是歸到部隊呢這個部分要進一步的協商因為人才非常有限我們跟委員長就是說各專長的這些能力有些各部會有掌握我們是需要做跨部會的一個協調讓他 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4585.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4607.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
我們的這個資料庫裡面有這樣的資訊存在好 謝謝那第二項挑戰是充實動員人力母體庫存的量那麼也是還請權重署回答這個紅色的如何解決特殊專長失真或是部隊專長空缺閒置這裡面因為剛才講的是以陸軍部兵陸軍部隊表為主 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4609.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4623.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
这里面海空军的动员他要回到原单位尤其是原单位不见得在原位置船是机动的甚至船在修船这个状况下请教一下全动数您在这边看法怎么样 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4625.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4642.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
包委員您的問題我剛剛一開始沒有聽得很清楚可不可以請問一下就是說海空軍的因為你剛剛軍種嘛希望援兵回援單位嘛另外海空軍的狀況不太一樣他有機動性他有部隊在調動那還有裝備太裝太換了以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4645.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4661.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
你現在回去是一個新裝備那尤其是船上的艦艇兵啊他船不見得在位置可能在大休了那回援單位等於說沒有幫助那只是去排踢口跟了這個部分您是不是能夠幫忙說明一下先跟委員說一下第一個海空軍 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4664.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4672.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
就現有的這些常備部隊基本上它的這些主要專長邊線比是比較高就是說它是充實的也就是說這個將來要動員缺員的這個缺 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4676.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4698.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
可能不會很多這是第一個第二個就是就我理解空軍他的動員大部分都是軍群隊做機場跑滑道的搶修那今年我們在軍群隊的這個招訓方式私訊的課程內容以及私訊的地點也都做了一些調整就是結合暫時可以運用的這種方式來私訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4701.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4726.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
因為那個空軍空軍的那個機場搶修的Triple R那個東西還要結合他的比方講的石材砂料再加上鋼板這個東西如果你原先的部隊他沒有參與過你現在回去會不會動員會員單位這個可能變成員單位的另外一種複合只是多了幾個人他就是屬於高專長的這個部分那高專長的部分的話在空軍的話來講的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4728.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4748.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
那他這些高專長的部分在退伍之後我們就要納入邊管那邊管如果他能夠回來的話他就要回復這個專長的護訓然後讓他能夠馬上能夠接上這樣子所以陸海空在每一個狀況都會有不一樣的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4749.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4765.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
所以呃強調這個高專長的一個一個控管然後呃原兵歸原位那如果原來的單位他被裁撤掉了那當然要看這個呃他呃原來新的 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4766.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4790.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
就進專場所以我們現在要在服役的時候如果預知這個單位要被裁撤在服役的時候就要並行做第二專場的一個訓練讓他在退伍之後他仍然有這個專場能夠來銜接上他的這個新單位那也有的是單位還在但是武器已經更新了 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4792.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4815.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
那這樣的話那就會變成說我們也要讓他回來然後去接受這個主要著重在他這個新式武器的一個接裝的那個首裝他這個新式武器的能力這樣子好最後一個問題因為在挑戰的第三檢討動員訓練訓彈的這個消耗比是不是能夠回答一下如何滿足實彈射擊訓練步槍機槍破爆這個彈藥數量 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4819.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4847.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
那在14天過程中間假如說以步兵來講他的步槍射擊有多少發子彈機槍有多少機會機槍手的話甚至破砲有沒有機會實彈射擊這個請後製室您報告委員相關的規劃我們都有做那現在有關於這個輕武器彈藥是沒有缺的問題那破砲彈藥也沒有缺的問題至於有沒有排武訓練課程我會後再跟您報告那個一年就是回去一次14天打幾發 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4850.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4871.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
按照現在的一個課程來講它這個相關的編制武器的射擊的訓練我們除了步槍會增加不但是射擊的訓練之外還有一個快速反應射擊之外破砲的這個部分按照現在相關的這些我們把它召回來的這個模式化的課表裡面也會有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4871.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4891.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
破砲的一個鑑定射擊 野戰的鑑定射擊的課程我個人感覺就是步槍射擊訓練的彈藥這是一個可以公開透明的對於步兵叫招回來那麼一年14天裡面步槍能夠射擊幾次打幾發 這個我覺得是可以讓大家了解一下步槍的發速 這個詳細 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4894.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4915.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
步槍射擊就是剛剛的這個快反射擊還有這個基礎射擊總共打145發145是那比多年前只有打38發這個進步很多了是好謝謝那今天的問題就到這邊那麼也謝謝大家部長你還有什麼指教沒有謝謝委員長好大家共同努力好謝謝謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4922.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4949.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
謝謝陳永康委員,接下來請陳俊宇委員上台質詢好,謝謝昭緯,我們有請顧部長及權動署的廖署長請顧部長還有權動署廖署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4951.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4969.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
部長早我們近幾年來我們國防部對於這個後備動員的制度不斷的在進行變革包括精進教召的頻率還有時間訓練的內容等等政策那也是希望讓後備的軍人將他所具備的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4970.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4987.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
軍事專業還有戰鬥技能能夠持續運用在部隊打造更堅實的我們國軍的後備戰力那去年我也和部長您討論過幾次有關這個教招的相關議題那也了解到延長實施的這個14天的教招 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4987.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5002.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
對於我們快速恢復後備軍人的這個戰力來說有正面的效果但相對的也隨著這個失訓時間的延長那招訓的頻率提升對於這個招援的影響也比 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5002.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5030.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
以前更大而在這個政策變動之下我想大家更加關心的是公平性的問題特別在去年我們群眾署的解凍報告有提到截至2024年這個年底的統計我們退伍8年後8年內的這個後備軍人有大約43%完訓那相對來說有超過一半的待招人數還是沒有接受到叫招 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5030.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5046.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
我們不確定這個問題到今天為止我們改善了多少那我們現今全面實施14天的這個教招對於提升我們後備軍人招訓的這個比例我們國防部目前有什麼樣的一個做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5047.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5071.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
能否有可能提升到這個五成以上又如何要讓我們這個選員的機制能夠公平性不會因為這個機率的問題,有一些人會比較常被叫召那這部分部長或是署長有什麼回覆?我們現在因為要全面實施十天叫召,那十成是拉長,但是我們維持那個叫召的人數還是在 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5073.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5096.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
11到12萬人這個並沒有減少,那我想我們就是最主要要符合部隊的作戰編制跟專長需求這個前提之下我們會優先來選從8年內沒有曾經參與過教召的這些後備軍人當然剛剛也提到因為我們要採原兵歸原位,然後後退先選的原則來辦這個就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5100.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5123.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
兼顧啦,兼顧一個是部隊的一個戰備的需求,因為我們希望立即恢復戰力,同時我們也要兼顧選員的公平性這樣子部長您剛剛回覆是說,我們會有一個汰選的機制,就是八年內如果沒有教召的人員,會優先教召嗎?是這樣子嗎?對,退伍八年內沒有曾經參與過教召的,也會納入我們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5126.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5142.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
優先的選充的這個部分的範圍之內這樣好那另外在我們去年國防部的這個專報當中有提到我們今年將採取這個特殊專長指名的申請的方式來滿足我們高階專長需求並以這個原兵歸原位的這個原則讓這些擁有高階專長的招員優先補充原單位原職務的這個專長進而形成我們固定的一個編組 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5156.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5177.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
但是有關這個特殊專長指名申請的這個機制目前實施上執行的情況是怎麼樣是否能夠滿足我們需求部隊對於特殊專長人力的一個需求這個就是我們必須要把這些有特殊專長的人要首先能夠掌握住那譬如說我們可能有衛報單處理小組我們有自動電軍 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5181.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5194.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
我們可能有這個電展室這些可能比較具有相當的特殊專長那我們必須要掌握住以後那這個是由部隊他照 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5194.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5208.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
依照他動員的這個任務的需要,他會針對這些具有高級、特殊或專業技術這些人,他提出一個需求那這個需求經過資格跟專長的審查,就會納入選中了 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5213.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5227.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
這個名單內,那這個不是由後備軍人執行向國防部申請,是由國防部根據他的掌握那各軍種還會去掌握相關的這些具有高專長高級跟特殊專長的人好 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5230.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5247.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
那在這一次的這個報告當中也有提到如果我們符合兵役法第43條所訂定的這個情況包括本人家庭發生重大事故或是學校的這個在校學生還是說有事情要出國等等那可以申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5247.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5275.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
免除本次的召集而這些免召條件的這個認定標準是由我們國防部另外訂定相關的這個管理辦法那這部分我想了解的是我們在全面實施14天的這個叫召之後對於生活上的一個安排來說影響更大那國防部對於現行的這個免召條件的這個妥適性除了要確保我們避免有人試圖這個規避叫召也要同時考量到14天 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5276.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5297.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
汛期可能會造成相關的這個困難那這部分我想請教部長國防部近期有沒有在對於免遭的條件的基準以及相關檢附的資料的認定進行過這個檢討跟委員報告就是說兵役法43條它有兩款一款是家庭發生重大事故 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5298.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5326.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
必須本人處理,這是一款嘛那另外一款是有其他因特殊事由無法應召那我們現在的一個認定當然最主要就是說譬如說配偶昏眠流產或者需要照顧重大生病的血親那昏喪等等這些重大事由那或者遭遇到天然災害沒有辦法應召我們就把它列入一個特殊的事由這樣來納入一個和免的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5327.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5348.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
可以申請的範圍另外有一個問題,這分成兩部分一部分是我們招員跟我反映的,另外一部分是場地借用的相關單位跟我反映的情形目前我們教招可能會使用學校或是宮廟的民間機構的限制空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5350.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5373.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
那場地雖然這個相關的空調設備設施都一應俱全但是可能受限於經費的問題我們有付租金的部分有付租金的部分可能經費的部分不足還是怎樣他沒辦法去開空調那還有一種情形是借用我們場地的單位在反映是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5374.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5402.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
一整年365天超過100天他們這個空間提供給我們國軍使用可是完全都沒有收到任何的這個租金那到底我們是有編列租金還是相關的費用有沒有有沒有一致性的一個規範或是標準那我們遭遠在使用這個空間的時候我們相關的設備的這個管理是不是有一致性跟委員報告第一個就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5403.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5425.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
現在的教召都是在戰術位置 戰術位置就是他打仗在哪裡 他就在哪裡教召那利用周邊的那些公共場域來做教召的場地那我們每個教召接訓單位 他也會提供這些帳棚 氣墊床或是流動廁所 或是開設沐浴站 這些基本的生活需求都可以滿足 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5427.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5443.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
那如果說是有借用場地那牽涉到那些什麼水電費啊那這個我們在預算裡面是有編列這個有編列對對對那委員講的這些問題我們下去再去掌握看看是哪裡我們再去協助一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5443.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5471.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
好 那就一致性就好了是好 那我們去年這個漢光41號演習期間我們國防部實施了第一次規模達到3000人的這個全員全旅的動員那驗證我們人力動員和後備這個部隊作戰的一個能力而在去年的這個專報當中也有提到今年度同心36的演習將會持續提升較早的規模同步執行我們首備旅 縣市後備旅 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5473.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5496.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
全旅的這個動員的效能驗證那這部分我想了解的是在今年8月實施的漢光演習我們預計後備軍人的參與規模為何並且在這個任務核驗證的目標上和去年有什麼不同的一個規劃第一個就是說我們現在會驗證兩個旅的全旅的後備動員 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5499.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5519.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
就是有台北市的後備旅跟步兵的腰戰怪旅,這個都是屬於擴兵的部分,就是原來只有機幹我們做一個全旅的動員另外全軍的部分,相關我的現在看到的數字是全部2.8萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5525.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5542.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
做一個目標這樣子,那再看報導率我想在追蹤有關我們教昭的無人機訓練的議題先前諮詢的時候我們也知道在去年10月開始有納入教昭的相關課程當中但後續我們對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5547.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5561.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
練習的時數只有短短的兩小時或是訓練的內容不夠紮實難以讓這個飛手能夠熟悉使用那以後我們後備部隊現有這個訓練或是微型無人機的相對應的 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5562.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5576.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
情況我想請教部長就是對於14天的這個教召當中規劃的無人機課程我們執行的成效是怎麼樣那對於課程的這個時數內容或是驗測的標準是否能夠有所調整以達到 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5578.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5595.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
這個長後一提的目標,有沒有可能?跟委員報告,我們先強調,就是說這個較早14天的話,我們現在的目標不是只有說恢復個人的基本技能,而是說要以部隊任務為核心的一個完整訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5596.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5624.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
所以我們非常著重在說依照他的兵各軍種他的專長要實施互訓比如說我們現在的M1A2海馬4等等那無人機的部分我們現在有成立無人機大隊那無人機中隊那這個部分也是屬於他的部隊的那個等於算是編制武器那所以對這個編制武器的這個首裝的訓練那這個部分也是我們要加強 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5625.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5643.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
至於如果不是在他編制的範圍之內我們還是會實施無人機的基礎訓練無人機的基礎訓練的時數有沒有辦法再增加我們會下去再檢討一下也就是說如果他本身無人機就是他的編制的裝備那他本來就應該要收裝這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5644.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5668.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
那這個就不是單純的說是基礎的訓練但是如果不是它的這個編制的裝備那麼我們基礎這個訓練的部分要是不是能夠再增加我們在就我們整個整個因為我們現在14天的話有不同的階段包括專長附近實戰設計還有作戰計畫演練然後我們看能夠再排出多少做無人機的這個訓練再去檢討一下好 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5672.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5695.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
那我們今天所討論的相關重點都是要如何提升後備戰力的相關這個建議跟這個內容那我們也期待國防部能夠持續精進我們後備動員的相關制度來提升招訓率和部隊整體的一個戰力共同打造我們堅持可靠的這個防衛能力以上 謝謝部長好 謝謝委員好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5702.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5716.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
接下來請王定宇委員上台質詢好 麻煩主席邀請我們顧方部長 請顧部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5724.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5751.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
是 黃委員部長早 我們幾個問題就交於您第一個我們MQ-9B兩架已經回到台灣來那已經在進行組裝當然這是以目前像伊朗的戰事來看雖然它被耗損率高但它解決了很多以前空軍要冒著危險前進到戰場核心區域進行相關情監偵的工作是一個我看這次美軍司令部講 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5752.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5773.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
這次要選伊朗戰爭的MVP他選的就是MQ-9那我現在要請教就是一些實質的問題我們MQ-9B高高空無人機本席之前在質詢的時候就已經提到在3月份提到第一個它的待遇操作它的人有沒有飛行佳績 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5775.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5795.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
目前的規劃目前空軍的規劃他有沒有飛行加擠報告委員跟分兩個部分來跟您報告第一個就是我們目前就是最快速讓他們不要產不要讓他們造成這個權益上的損失我們目前是用三軍一致的方式用戰鬥勤務加擠那我們在四月份已經報國防部所以沒有飛行加擠 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5796.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5817.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
目前是戰鬥輕無佳績那跟您報告就我們也去參酌了這個亞洲地區跟美洲地區幾個主流國家的這個無人機操作的領佳績的這個狀況那其實很多國家他雖然說叫飛行佳績但是他的實質上是遠遠低於他實際的飛行佳績我還是要建議這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5818.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5842.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
像美軍的話他們會rotate他們會一些飛行員去飛這個高高空的無人機因為有些飛行的概念還是屬於飛行員的概念那我可以接受就是說我們在飛行家級現在分兩級嘛可以增加一級就是說它畢竟危險性不一樣但是這是一個有關待遇跟尊嚴跟專業的問題我聽說我們現在禁止他們穿飛行衣喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5842.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5859.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
沒有 我們現在在研議他們要穿可能 這個還沒有確定目前作戰區要求穿的是一般軍服啊他們還沒有開始呈編第一個 是它的名稱叫飛行家旗那我們現在本來就針對不同的機型飛行家旗是有分級制 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5860.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5888.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
那適度的分級就像某些國家它的飛行加級但它的待遇跟真正飛F35的飛電增機的會不一樣我們現在慢速機跟戰鬥機的飛行加級金額上有一些差異那個不同是可以接受因為危險係數不一樣但它叫飛行加級是一個飛行員的專業的尊重跟尊嚴所以既然你們要付它的加級 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5890.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5917.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
為什麼不讓他符合他在操作飛行器的這個部分我真的建議參謀長思考一下你可以給他叫飛行家級那你可以加一餅嗎報委員我們領飛行家級這還涉及到法的問題因為飛行家級他要符合空勤體位他每年要去做空勤體檢但是他實際上是沒有從事飛行的任務跟工作那您剛剛提到的我們也去查過國外他確實是領飛行家級他是要符合空勤體位他也必須每個月去同乘的也有 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5918.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5935.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
所以說這會造成我們很大的資源上的浪費我建議你去思考法規該改就改因為它必須有飛行的概念我們現在戰鬥機出去載空一個時間就要回來MQ-9上去一天不用回來是地面上那個飛行員換三班 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5936.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5951.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
所以他的體力啊專業的要求也會有我的意思是說這是軍中同仁的心聲既然有這個佳績叫飛行這兩個字是一個對有翅膀的飛行員來講這是有意義的然後他的飛行衣 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5953.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5974.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
希望能夠保留讓他可以穿飛行衣那這個是未來必要的趨勢這是一個先進的作戰方式我們無人機從手持的從單排用的一直到高高空的其他要求的操作員陸軍可能叫飛手可是在高高空的這個是飛行員那這飛行員名稱你把它拿掉了 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5975.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
5999.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
那這個其實是我認為在心理上是有些打擊的再跟委員補充一個就是我們查了大概在韓國他們的無人機飛行他們也領飛行加急但是他只能領飛行加急的六分之一如果說這個比例相較於我們現在的這個戰鬥勤務加急的話空加的六分之一比戰鬥勤務加急還低啊所以說我們要維護我們的權益金額上因為危險的係數不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6002.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6031.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
本席尊重你們專業的判斷但對一個飛行員操作高高空無人機甚至有些是飛行員退下來移到那邊去的飛行家級這個名詞如果能夠保留給予適度的尊重對國家沒有損失嘛對國家哪有損失呢然後穿著飛行衣他操作的是飛行器但畢竟他人沒有在天上這個是有一些不同那個不同產生待遇的不同本席尊重你們的判斷我現在只是建議在這個部分不要讓他覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6032.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6054.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
他就已經不是飛行員了我真的建議你們在研議的時候去思考這麼做對飛行員的尊重有國家也沒有損失啊他叫飛行加擠跟戰鬥加擠的金額差不多國家沒有損失啊但他得到的是一份尊重就是我畢竟還是我們常講有翅膀的人不要把那個翅膀拔掉好不好這是一個建議另外我要請教部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6056.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6083.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
這一次在美國的環太平洋軍演31個國家這次有蠻多新的部分像首次讓韓國的海軍將領擔任指揮官來進行那它裡面這一次的環太平洋軍演它有操作實探的集成演練無人系統前沿科技最先進科技的操演對接傳統核心海戰那它有三個目標就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6084.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6111.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
反制印太區域的灰色地帶的威脅跟封鎖那另外呢去壓制潛在的對手驗證跨國一體化指揮鏈就是這個還沒有到單一作戰區但是跨國的一體化的指揮鏈以及嚇阻威權擴張大概這個我是從這一次環太平洋軍演的文件看到這些東西第一個我請教我們這次也沒有被邀請 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6112.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6122.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
美國參眾兩院也通過多次希望邀請台灣參加我請教部長台灣有沒有以任何我們不知道的形式參與其中 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6124.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6144.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
還是你不能講本部並沒有參演那我要請教就是以他這一次裡面提到的灰色地帶的威脅啦潛在的對手啦威權的擴張環太軍演的目標你覺得他這個潛在對手威權擴張在印太地區指的是誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6145.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6168.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
我想第一島鏈所要防衛的集體嚇阻的這個在第一島鏈或者甚至第二島鏈形成集體嚇阻這個對象當然都很清楚就是中國就是中國嘛我覺得這個就是很明顯的目標嘛這個所謂潛在對手威權擴張嚇阻對象就是中國而中國在第一島鏈威脅的重中之重就是台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6170.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6193.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
那台灣在環太平洋軍演沒有參演可是他們演習的內容都跟台灣安全有關我聽起來很荒謬很不切實際所以我接下來要請教的是環太軍演是從6月26吧開始到7月嘛到7月22的樣子這是環太我們台灣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6195.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6217.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
立即備戰的操演是622到626我們漢光的實兵演習是在8月初我請教部長我們的操演跟環太其實環太之後還有很多在印太地區澳洲跟美國 美國跟日本 日本菲律賓 美國跟韓國 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6218.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6243.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
會有一連串的操演都在六月底到八月初那當然這個時候也是印太地區氣候比較適合操演的適合軍事行動的我們的操演的計畫從現在正在進行中的立即備戰的操演以及接下來的漢光跟盟友之間這些操演的科目是有關聯還是沒有關聯 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6249.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6277.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
我想我只能夠說我們的立即備戰操演跟聯合防禦操演是在我們的演練的目的當然是在不同的階段我剛才的問題就是我現在看到題目都跟台海周邊局勢有關然後台灣好像沒有被邀請參加可是同一時間我們這裡也在操演他們也在操演那我們的科目跟盟友的科目之間有沒有關聯性 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6280.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6306.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
委員問的是環太平洋的軍演我覺得現在更值得關注應該是現在在進行的堅毅之龍跟勇敢之盾這兩個才更值得我們再關注他裡面的科目跟我們的科目有關聯性嗎因為堅毅之龍他是聚焦在九州跟南溪諸島西南諸島 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6308.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6330.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
我們有時候叫南西諸島,有時候叫西岸諸島。但是不管是怎麼叫,就是說這個部分當然涉及到有關島嶼的聯合作戰,特別是用遠征軍的這種概念。以美國來講,是前沿部署遠征軍的概念。 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6330.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6347.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
那結合日本的自衛隊來進行這個相關的操演,我想這個人目標說的對象是非常非常清楚的。那另外勇敢之盾的話,它的規模更大,有美軍的航母跟相關的艦,還有先進的這些飛機。 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6348.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6367.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
蔡英的國家,另外我們了解多了澳洲,還有其他的一些觀察。就第一島鏈、第二島鏈的聯合的影響?他跨,他更大,他會比這個還要跨大一點,他包括了關島,甚至夏威夷,當然還有從日本的工程一直往下,到鹿兒島。 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6371.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6382.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
所以部長你用這個來回答我的提問就是台灣不管哪一個操演跟這些盟友相關的操演科目的關聯性你用這個來回答嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6384.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6401.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
我想我只能回答到這裡。對,我知道。所以你用這個回答是好的回答。確實,我們是當事人,我們是局內人,我們不是局外人,不可能別人在那邊搔癢,我們在那邊化歇嘛。所以應該提到那兩個。事實上,環太軍事專業的部分比較低啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6402.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6420.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
他比較像大拜拜你後面講金一之龍後面這幾個其實跟台灣的直接相關性更有關我本來想多問一個現在改回太平洋司令部這幾個軍演的J5有沒有串在一起 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6422.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6442.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
我們的軍演 太平洋司令部的改名他們已經說明了他們的任務沒有沒有 我跟改名無關 我說我們的軍演他們的J-5有沒有派人來上一次是巴杰龍有來嘛那個名牌是你們秀出來不是我秀的沒有沒有 相關的這些部分我講J-5來台灣 J-5也會去到日本 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6448.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6460.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
西南豬島那邊J-5也會在後面這個軍演也就是說太平洋司令部的J-5有沒有在這不同的軍演裡面去串請示範你可以講多少你講我不勉強啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6462.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6485.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
也讓國人知道台灣在這個安全網絡體系裡面並不孤單啊台灣在這個安全體系裡面世界民主盟友很重視我們家的安全我們應該最重視看到朋友還挺關心的好事啊所以我的意思說在不破壞默契不涉及機敏的情形下讓國人清楚知道其實是重要的所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6485.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6498.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
太平洋司令部的J5負責政策跟聯合的一些行動的部分我們的他上次有來那現在剛才部長用那幾個軍演展現我們跟這些部分的關聯性有沒有串在一起 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6500.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6525.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
我想我只能跟委員報告就是說我們的立即備戰操演聯合防疫操演跟漢光實兵演習都是一個一連串的一個演訓那所搭配的當然都是我們的結合我們的聯合作案計畫來驗證我們的聯合作案能力那只是不同的階段那漢光是全程不是我想聽請示因為你回答太標準我就講到這裡標準到跟沒有回答一樣其他的部分我想我們沒有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6526.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6541.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
不方便回答那秦施事你上來要講什麼包委員謝謝您剛剛的補充很多東西我問你簡單一點我們孤不孤單嗎台灣在印太的局勢裡面絕對不孤單 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6543.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6562.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
好啦我不為難你們啦我其實還有兩個題目但因為時間關係我提醒一下今天我們的題目在教召這個事情上你們有93%嘛都能夠援兵援專長援援單位我比較focus那7%啦那7%不能的原因在哪裡然後另外呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6565.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6588.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
女性現在自願役的女性官士兵她參加教召是採自願制我們要將來變強制這個當然要修法而且我看到是不分朝野很多女性的委員認為男女應該平等所以這個不是國防部單獨想出來的是立法院我在那邊看那麼多年一直在要求的所以這要修法而且不是所有女性都要來而是自願役的女性官士兵 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6589.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6615.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
從原來自願參加教召到現在納入教召的人力規劃所以你們修法案要提出來嘛那這裡面就牽涉到很多後勤補給我到野戰的戰場總是男女性有差別這裡面是一個大的工程所以第一個7%的沒辦法原能力回到原專長原因在哪裡第二個我們未來女性強制教召之後在後勤在相關作業上如何把這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6617.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6632.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
變成單位的負擔變成不是負擔這裡面不只是性平的東西這裡面很多裝備要跟上然後第三個我要問的問題是我們現在很多單位原兵原專長回原單位可是原單位的東西已經不見了 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6633.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6650.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
比方說我回到原單位260戰車不見現在是M1A2那M1A2在換專訓練的時候訓練能量都已經吃緊了我怎麼再去訓練這個短期的14天的或者將來自走砲都變A7的我原單位回來回訓專長已經不見就那個東西已經不見了這三個問題光復怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6654.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6682.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
第一個這樣就是剛剛提到那個沒有辦法百分之百的那個部分我想這個跟過去我們必須坦白講跟過去因為我們長期有十四多年的四個月的軍事訓練役那因此那自願役的部分退下來那要全部要擋到原兵歸原位要能夠滿足百分之百確實還沒有辦法完全能夠打到那義務役的部分因為過去是軍事訓練役四個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6683.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6711.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
那全部都是沒有士官跟衛官的這個部分當然也造成我們在這個專長他的專長也沒有細分了啦全部都步槍兵所以我們援兵歸文員要恢復立即戰力的這個情況之下確實有那所以我們會做一些算是一些補充吧就是說有相類似的全動署那邊可能要費心一點因為前四個月的連醫學院出來都步槍兵可惜了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6712.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6716.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
變成要回頭去撈他的專長那又是另外一個問題民間的專長回過頭來他就會變成說他要符合他的民間專長那個變成是專長編碼的重新編訂所以其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6729.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6748.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
教召的動員或者是教授這些事情涉及到是滿戶長包括要掌握他的民間的專長要掌握他在部隊的一個專長然後要讓他互訓那麼剛剛提到的那個部隊如果已經是準備要裁撤的我們剛剛也提到的或者他單位的裝備已經換新了 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6749.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6760.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
換新了那第一個當然就是我們如果已經有預期是這樣子的話我們會盡量來納入他的第二專長那然後讓他退伍之後還是有第二專長我最後提就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6762.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6783.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
群眾署跟我們後備這裡會辛苦一點我們的兵資資料如果那四個月的其實那個兵資資料全部都專長都不符合他真正的專長可能要花點時間去撈一下他在民間的或者他的我們建立所謂第二專長這時候他回訊的時候還要不要堅持原專長原單位就未必了因為那就可惜了 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6783.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6799.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
第二個我現在以前自走砲要幾個人要好多人嘛或者一個砲兵部隊要滿編八個我現在A7三個就好四個就好了那我多餘的榮譽的人力它是變無人機單位它就要變成要有新的第二專長 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6800.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6826.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
這個部分我倒不用堅持你一定要原專長99% 100%回原單位那落伍了啦以前一個單位我一個8吋流要8個10個那我未來三個人就能操作了那我多出來的人我不能閒置在那邊等那個鞭石動員啊我可能讓他有新的專長去補充其他兵力不足的地方這是一個很精細要細緻化處理的部分也是我對群眾署跟後備單位的期許啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6827.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6841.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
然後另外最重要的一件事情是我一直在講我們人事單位那個最小域值也就是一個部隊能動起來到底是65% 70% 85%每個單位不一樣那個數據要出來我才能把這個榮譽的人力挪到那個地方去做使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6842.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6859.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
我將來要增加加擠才知道哪邊缺人我給他薪水多一點 多一點人過去才有個科學依據 我還在等那個數據啦那我今天沒有問到包含我們的抗彈部啦 這些有一些弊端重生我找時間再跟國防部就教你們啦好 謝謝部長的時間 謝謝好 薛薇好 謝謝接下來請沈博洋委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6890.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6891.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
謝謝主席 有請部長請顧部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6899.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6926.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
是 沈委員部長好那因為今天這一個題目是要問教召那其實跟教召有關的一些陳情啊什麼等等之類的我覺得在這幾年以來我們也是收到不少那但我不太想針對個案來問所以我都問一些比較大原則的部分那至於細部可能是哪一些要改進或者發生在哪裡這個我們在這個私底下的時候再來講就好因為我覺得在諮詢上面我們問的是大原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6927.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6956.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
那第一個我先想問一下就是說因為國防部六月十一預告這個修正這個妨礙兵役治罪條例嘛對不對啊這個是喔這個有他的理由啦齁那但是我看新聞報導的時候因為你看這個條文他是說針對逃避動員齁臨時召集齁等等等等的齁那但是我可以看到這邊我放了兩個媒體的報導他都提到說喔不給罰錢了是國防部擬修法逃兵役教召最少關一年齁那 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6956.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6971.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
這一個修法本身有沒有包含教召教召的部分在原來的條列第六條那這次修改是修改那個第五條所以教召跟請勿著急B就故意來 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6972.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
6994.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
避免這個教育遭遇或勤務遭遇的部分還是在第六條還是三年以下有期徒刑所以因為這一次呢他講說修法的時候看起來修法修的不是第六條但是新聞報導的時候好像有點把它放在一起講所以我覺得這個是不是也可以跟媒體可能要跟他們說可能不管是他的報導的這個標題或者說他的內容可能要稍微更正一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
6995.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7020.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
那不然的話就會變成說那個會誤會說我們這一次修法就是要針對教召那我就覺得這可能會有一些誤會所以這可能再請國防部跟這個媒體溝通一下因為我就看到有媒體這樣的一個標題但是我們所知道的修法並不是第六條好這第一個那第二個就是呢就是目前來講就是說我們呢有聽到好幾個例子就是說在通知教召這件事情結果後來他說他 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7022.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7049.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
他不知道或者說他知道的時候時間已經太晚了那目前我有稍微盤點一下就是會通知的時間點其實有好幾個第一個就是在一退伍的時候呢就會告訴你說八年內可能會有幾次那是第一個嘛對不對然後第二個呢在我之前就有詢問過國防部就是在講每年度十二月的時候他可以上網去查詢對不對這是第二次那第三次就是我們理解的最長的就是四十天以前他會去這個送達 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7050.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7075.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
那我就一直在想就是說因為以往也發生過案例就是大家也知道台灣收信的這個習慣之前也發生過案例不是是那個爸爸不在結果是十歲的女兒拿著印章就下去收信收信之後就把它放在電視機旁邊滑到電視櫃下面結果沒有收到就是說我們收信的習慣上面它的確可能會有這一個疏失那現在我在想的就是第二就第二步那一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7076.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7105.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
就是那一個12月的時候可以上網查詢這一個就是因為上網查詢這件事情因為畢竟就不是每個人會那麼固定的會去上網做查詢所以有沒有可能就是因為像我們像網營為了要防詐等等之類的有各式各樣比較多元的通知方式嘛如果他有留手機又或者說呢他有別的假設以簡訊的方式有沒有可能有一些盤點一些其他的方式確實的讓這個消息能夠比較早因為畢竟以教招而言很多人他在安排他的一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7105.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7131.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
生活的時候他可能是半年前一年前他已經安排了暑假他可能要做什麼做什麼那如果我們能夠越早因為我反而40天那一個我覺得那是另外一件事因為那本來就是我們台灣目前收信的習慣這個我覺得也不是國防部的問題而是說每年那一個12月要公佈的時候可不能夠更讓大家知道說要記得上去查詢用簡訊的單純的一些通知等等之類的那這樣的話呢讓大家可以做一些預先的規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7135.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7158.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
這個我們可以研究一下就是說我們現在是有跟中華遠傳台灣大哥大有一個簡訊的通知但是那個簡訊通知是在那個四十天前第三個階段還沒有送檔的時候才用那個簡訊因為我們會把這個我們不一定會照他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7159.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7180.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
沒有不一定知道他的手機號碼但是我們會知道他的身份證號碼他如果他在他的這個身份證號碼底下還有他的手機號碼那就由這三家這個來做一個簡訊通知那剛剛委員提到的是這個簡訊通知能夠提早的話那我們可以來考慮這個研究看看啦12月 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7182.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7194.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
我也在想我們12月發放這個預告書的時候這個預告書應該也是比較著重在該年度要叫召因為我們現在那個每年 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7194.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7215.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
那如果該年度,那如果簡訊這個部分我們來演繹看看,這個還要跟電信業者再來,因為有相關個資的一些,我們會再不損及個資,我的瞭解是我們沒有要知道他的電話號碼,因為我們只知道我們提供這個身份證字號, |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7216.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7235.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
那他的電話號碼我們不知道但是那個電信業者會知道那電信業者就按照這個去去通知這樣子那我們並不收集他的電話號碼但是我們本身有那個兵棋資料所以我們會有他的身份證字號因為我覺得這是值得研擬看看不管到最後結果如何再讓我知道因為我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7235.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7257.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
第一個步驟的那一個是很確實因為你在退伍前這個大家都會聽到然後40天這一個就牽涉到我們本來大家收信的習慣那剛剛有講到如果沒有收到又有在簡訊的不足所以最主要就是第二個這個上網因為上網公告這件事情通常就是大家最不注意的事情那如何讓大家注意到這件事情事先先做好規劃我覺得重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7257.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7284.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
那另外一個比較小的問題就是說也是跟這個有關就是因為現在我們的教照這個內容也是越來越豐富然後我們也是很專注在這一塊那當然很多企業他就會去想說那這個會影響到他們企業或什麼之類的但是我相信其實不管是我們對於企業的一些不管是要補助啦還是說事先的一個說明啦這個應該會有很多就是值得跨部會協調的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7284.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7299.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
這個我就暫時先不問這個我等到之後再來因為我覺得如果國防部去主導一些跨部會的協調的話可能會讓這些方案會變得比較會比較快速啦比較快速那接下來我想問就是說這個就牽扯到這個教召的內容內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7300.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7327.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
那目前來講我就是蒐集了這些各方的一些陳情啊意見然後有提到一些那我相信呢有些可能就是少數的個案但是不管它今天是少數還是它是一個普遍的問題反正我們就是盡量讓讓這些事情不要發生我覺得這是重要的那第一個呢就是這一個槍枝妥善率的這個問題就是我們有遇到就是說呢這比如說它是45名兆元對不對那每一個人都配一個T65K2嘛那但是呢就是它 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7328.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7351.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
像其他單位掉了40把的把槍然後還出現了比如說一發還幾發兩發的這樣的一個事故所以他只能用堪用的槍枝然後輪流用那就表示呢就是他本來準備的這一個把槍妥善率不足而臨時可能要去掉然後呢剩下的就是妥善的大家輪流使用那其實我們當然理論上是希望大家一人一把 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7352.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7364.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
所以這一個可能會有一個槍枝妥善率的問題這個可能再去這其實我們有回報過所以就拜託去了解一下但另外一個我覺得牽扯到這個內容就是比如說這個快反射 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7365.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7388.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
就是現在快板射擊呢目前來講呢我看到是全程是維持單發射擊單發射擊我就有人說那這個三發點放啊或全自動射擊的訓練啊這個是在戰場上比較可能會遇到的問題那他們就說他現在他過去他遇到的狀況他就只有遇到這個單發的射擊模式那這個是不是也可以是不是可以稍微說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7394.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7401.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
我們現在採快速環境稅採利益或貴剛剛委員提到的是可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7404.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7422.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
3.8%這一件對我是聽到他們的這樣的一個反應就是更模擬現代的一個狀況這樣子但我知道就是我們到底我們彈藥的儲備啦什麼等等之類我們其實為了這件事情這就是為什麼我們之前在特別預算等等之類一直在講但是就是說已經增加到145那如果要3.8% |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7426.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7446.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
我們再研議一下另外這個也是跟重武器相關就是說81砲跟120砲牌就是說他們遇到的都是進行模擬的訓練比較沒有實彈的射擊那我覺得他們就會反應說如果在這樣的一個狀況之下是不是除了模擬之外能不能有實彈這個是砲的部分這個我覺得跟剛剛是一樣的問題這個就是我覺得研擬就可以了 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7450.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7462.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
那接下來就是第二大點就是跟無人機應變的作為跟城鎮戰的訓練那我雖然有收到這一個但是我知道其實國防部針對這一個部分應該是有在準備的所以是不是可以稍微說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7464.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7485.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
就是跟無人機有關跟城鎮戰有關跟委員報告第一個剛剛部長已經跟幾位委員都做說明就無人機的訓練他區分兩部分就是無人機專業部隊他本身的編制武器就是無人機那這個當然就是按照他的編制然後他的這個無人機的操作什麼這個當然是比較高階的 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7487.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7513.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
至於他本身可能編制武器可能是破砲或者是什麼這個機槍兵他就是做現在的課程裡面就是有兩小時的無人機的基礎訓練那這兩小時是不是都足夠我們部長剛才有指示就是我們還會再做研議這第一部分第二個就城鎮戰那現在我們按照我們的這個作戰概念調整我們都已經有修正了 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7514.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7531.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
在作戰計畫演練裡面他自然而然就會結合城鎮來做演練這樣因為我覺得這有時候是牽扯到一些大家因為教召是這種很容易大家一回來之後然後就開始講說啊這個這個我覺得現在我對這個沒有信心啊該有的什麼東西這些很容易發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7531.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7552.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
但我覺得其實國防部稍微在有些場合我們不用透露我們訓練的全部嘛但是就像剛剛講的我們有這樣的一個精神我們有納入到這個計畫我們有逐步在調整我覺得這個都是給社會多一點信心我覺得這個信心其實蠻重要的那接下來那個也會有他們有提到就是說現在還是很常見比如說今天營長說要來結果大家又開始要整理內務有沒有這個乾杯什麼又要 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7555.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7571.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
把手要朝外啦什麼等等之類的就是大家可能也都很常聽到這樣的事情又或者說呢明明是在訓練的過程有一些在戴的話在那邊滑手機等等之類的那我就想我相信這可能都是極少數的個案但是我們不希望說因為個案很容易被講出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7571.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7600.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
然後你紮實的訓練反而很少人分享那我們反而多一點讓國防部分享就是紮實的訓練是什麼樣子適時的釋出一些訊息那少數的我們去注意說這種事情以後不要再發生那我覺得這樣稍微平衡一下國人對於現在交仗的信心一定會變得更好那因為時間的因素我就先問到這邊謝謝我們會注意一下謝謝主席好 謝謝接下來請王安祥委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7611.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7616.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
謝謝主席 有請部長跟全東署署長請顧部長還有全東署署長部長早 署長早我想今天這個主題其實非常重要因為涉及到我們這個後備軍人他這個我們要回訓 回訓的概念基本上這個教昭當然非常非常重要我們這種115年我們開始變成那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7640.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7654.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
14天以後其實基本上我們當然很重視他這個招訓的一個狀況不過我們看到現在好像這幾年發現這個未到跟這個未招訓的人數都有逐漸的這個提升 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7655.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7673.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
那也有他們這個未招訓的部分有很多這個利用一些他的這個未招訓的這個理由啦這些事故的這個方式來做處理不曉得署長覺得這個有沒有辦法再把它再調降下來就是能夠真正招訓的那個狀況能夠更好一些些 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7675.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7698.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
跟委員報告 就是說一旦下令然後 和免這個都是依法來辦的那法裡面都是明文規定比如說 個人 遭遇個人自己身體有重大疾病他沒辦法來 或來了也沒辦法操作類似這樣子的 我們依照這樣子的規定跟標準來做審核 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7699.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7716.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
是 剛剛其他人也有提到其實我們這個擔任民意代表其實都有接到很多這類的這個案件當然我們現在不是跟對個案那我們可以看到很多這個出國的部分就很多甚至在退上其實就很多人在那裡留言說我想現在出國的標準不曉得這個絕對不是這邊的具體的這個認定的標準是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7720.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7735.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
跟委員報告出國是他在這個公告流入之前他個人的出國或是公務出國這個部分是可以來辦理那如果是在公告之後就是當年的12月之後那這個部分我們就不允許 以上報告好 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7736.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7755.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
前一年的12月25日以後公告之後他如果再安排就不准和免因為現在大家出國的頻率是蠻高的那他必須要在公告之前那這個部分的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7760.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7778.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
我們再來研議一下好 OK那另外就是我們看到有些像那個在學的學生或者是這個在間服刑的部分這個應該是本質上就是應該要挑掉的 是嗎就他不會是在我們教訓的這個名單裡面對不對就我們那個破人應該是直接都可以把他們挑掉還是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7781.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7806.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
就是下令的時候他還沒有入監服刑下令之後他忽然陰暗這樣子所以否則如果是學生這種他就會直接踢掉了就不會在我們的名單裡面另外這個因為我常常是從事勞動的工作然後研究因為現在很多我們叫做非典型的勞動當然我們知道現在教召大部分我們希望這個事業單位的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7808.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7820.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
這個貨主都能夠提供這個工價的部分不過還是有很多用日新啊或者是這個非典型的這個這個我不曉得這個教招有沒有評估過就會影響到他們的一個生計的部分這個有沒有考慮過 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7824.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7842.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
這個跟委員報告分兩部分就是說第一個如果你是志願役的教召那就是按照他的信奉的日薪來發給他那如果是義務役的義務役的官士兵他的日薪就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7844.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7868.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
官士兵就是900、800、700但是還要再乘以1.5倍就是他每天的日薪我知道因為後來跟很多人實際上他的薪水其實有一些差距或是他的一些工作可能必須要有一些中斷這個不曉得有沒有更好的配套的方法可以讓大家更有意願來因為那個僱主應該還是要給他公價然後還要給他其實我剛剛講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7870.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7888.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
並不是一些比較長期性的工作有一些像這個非典型的啦他們可能是領日型的因為現在年輕人很多啦他們希望這個生活尤其退伍之後希望有一些比較彈性的工作啦我建議啦 這個署長還是把它列入在一些考慮上面這我們碰到一些大家跟我們有講到這些事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7889.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7909.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
那另外就是我想這個就我說的就是這個選沖利的部分其實前面很多委員也都在講這個事情就是專長的部分因為現在我們在推這個援兵歸援衛那我想可能會到九成多我覺得這個是一個好基礎不過我想最近我們前一陣子都在討論一些這個軍購的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
7910.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
7935.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
現在真的科技變化非常非常快了其實剛剛前面我也有提到不管是裝備啦或是他過去從事的工作或是他本身退伍以後他從事的工作可能都會有一些改變不曉得這個部分有沒有剛剛署長這邊有沒有什麼更好的方法不管是他跟過去的匹配或是他現在專程的匹配剛剛部長有說了一些些啦有沒有更好的方法從他的一些confidence來說他是能力上可以做一些更好的適配的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
7937.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
7946.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
第一個就是說預期裁撤培養第二專長另外還有一個他這個部隊他縱使是有新式武器他可能會有類似專長所以他還是可以來補 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
7947.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
7974.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
那另外當然就是說我們對於他這種新式的裝備到現在為止現在就新接裝的這個部分我們一般的那個邊線比會高所以我們要維持住這個高線便比的情況之下那可能要退下來的這些人我們要維持他的首裝我們必須要把他照回來維持他的專長護訓 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
7975.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
7991.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
是 是 是而且有一些新的武器像剛剛我們一些新的武器對人力的需求不管是數量或者是它的專長可能都有一些改變我後面等下也會問到一些有關於直通通知這一類的人員這個狀況再跟大家就教 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
7993.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8014.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
另外就是,其實我那時候在講預算的時候,其實我就有提到,就是這個合格率的部分。我想我所知的部分,有拿到一些,徐總署這邊有一些合格率的部分,看起來大概是八成多,大家都是合格。不合格的部分,就會做一些輔導,希望他能夠合格。 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8016.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8045.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
後來這個厚子部他們的講法是說我想這個他們的意見是說那個演練的課程是以這個熟悉戰術位置啦跟戰鬥程序啦他不是以評分或評比為目的啦那因為都是後備軍人啦所以我那時候在預算的時候我就是希望說也許不是用棒子啦是用紅蘿蔔的方式啦所以有一些獎勵不曉得拳鬥組這邊他們有沒有什麼想法就他們的表現還不錯他的這個考評最後評鑑的那個效果不錯有沒有什麼可以有一些獎勵的機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8047.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8058.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
跟委員包括就我了解現在就是不管在私訊期間或者是或者是他在測驗的過程當中表現優異的都會由部隊長親自發一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8065.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8090.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
當然各個部隊的獎勵措施可能有一些不太一樣的差異但是基本上都是在鼓勵他們要認真落實的去訓練是是是 所以我覺得啦 這個蠻重要的啦所以我那時候在省預算的時候我也有特別講到這件事希望有一些獎勵的機制啦畢竟這個教招我想對我們維繫我們國防的戰力是非常非常重要啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8091.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8118.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
那另外其實一個我想大家都非常重視的就是那個專長賓科的部分這我剛才也特別提到了那我所知的時候我有看到一些賓科其實那個數量有明顯的下降那當然跟我們現在這個人口數的下降也有關係不過有一些比較重要的啦像這個我說的好像這個通知指通這類的東西它其實都有下降的趨勢我想現在這個對於因為外面其實我們現在在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8119.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8130.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
在外面工作的時候其實也很缺這類的專長的人我們不曉得有沒有什麼好的方法可以讓我們各種的專長尤其像這種資通的專長可以保持在一個好的戰力或一個人數的狀況之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8133.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8158.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
我覺得這分兩方面,一方面是權動署要跟跨部會做一些協調來了解專長,可能在民間取得專長第二個就是各軍種,剛剛您提到的自動電軍,他就必須要跟民間這些做結合也就是說他要常常了解這些他們特殊的這些能力的人在什麼地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8159.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8186.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
他們在這個領域的話 他們也會清楚所以我覺得這兩個要搭配起來因為這時候在講人才的資料庫要要跟跨部會做一些訊號因為我們現在在審一些軍購我們現在的武器都越來越先進了那當然我們知道我們的少子女化其實人數都越來越下降了所以我覺得在我們那時候寫那個特別條例我們也特別講到這件事情就是對這個武器的這個投購的部分基本上除了 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8187.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8204.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
裝備本身之外我想相對的操作能力也非常重要啦而且我想可能這個後備軍人也是一個非常重要的指標啦所以我想這個希望軍控署這個部分也許某些特殊專長一定要特別看看指標用的方法能夠把它拉到一個還不錯的一個標準上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8205.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8226.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
我們一直在努力好 感謝部長最後就是這次我想這個女性的部分強制交代我想剛剛也有委員說其實我們看起來不同黨派甚至很多女性的委員其實都蠻贊成的從性別的概念來說大家都覺得OK我也希望這樣的方法基本上可以提升很多國軍人力的戰力 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8227.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8255.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
不過基本上因為其實我們這個女性的部分因為有這個後備軍人嘛我們過去都是用這個志願的方式 剛剛部長也說數段不高那所以有一些相關的配套啦跟他必須要考慮的一些事情還請這個協同署這邊再研議一下好 感謝有有 一定會研議這個好 謝謝謝謝部長跟署長好謝謝王委員接下來請牛許廷委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8262.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8264.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
謝謝主席 國防部長有請請郭部長是 林委員好部長 午安 辛苦了這個我們我國兵役的這個召集制度法原依據是兵役法37條第三款基本上是用行政命令27條的方式來處理就是教育召集的範圍人數時間基本上會相信國防部的判斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8288.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8303.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
也會尊重國防部依據時事的需求來做快速的調整所以這段時間一直有討論比如說教召的革新等等前面2022的時候有一次所謂的教召改革那最近又要有一次新的教召的一些調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8304.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8330.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
那當然嘛這個既然是有需要大家在方向大方向上面大家都沒有人會反對這個事情但是這個過去的時候曾經有這個最早在也許成平時代吧姑且這麼說吧這以前教招時間短那相對來講這個課表也比較輕鬆很多人講的形容虛設或者是所謂的形式主義所以2022年的時候有大幅的提升的這個訓練的強度做了第一次的這個改變那麼115年就是今年大家要再做這個調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8332.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8353.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
說比如說要增加無人機的基礎訓練啊戰傷救護啊等等一些實用性的技能那你們我現在想要請教一下我再請國防部說明一下因為既然是行政命令這本來就是你們的權限但既然是你們的權限做調整的時候我們透過質詢的場合跟國人大眾做清楚的說明我想還是很有必要的這一次我們在報告裡面你看到你說我們國防部的教召要再做調整訓練的強度不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8356.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8368.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
強度不夠跟內容不同我覺得是有點不一樣的概念我希望在第一個問題裡面得到國防部的回答現在的強度到底是強度的問題還是內容的問題我舉個例子來看因為強度不夠表示我在同樣時間裡面我訓練的項目太少了 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8372.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8400.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
或者是比如說我打靶的數量舊式教召這個射擊訓練12小時新式教召改28小時強度提升了同樣的訓練的菜單但是我增加了訓練的量強度提升那你的報告裡寫說因為強度不夠所以我們的教召要再做調整可是你在對外的新聞發布跟他討論的時候你又講說是內容調整比如說我要增加無人機這兩個其實是不太一樣的一個方向在教召的時間現在還是14天嘛對不對在同樣的時間然後到底是強度的問題還是內容的問題是不是請國防部清楚的說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8401.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8428.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
我想強度本身是一件事當然強度剛剛委員提到的是涉及的這些那但是強度本身也要涉及到他的實戰性那這就是內容那所以涉及的訓練不是只有在做那個一般的涉及的訓練就是那還要踩這個立跪臥的這種的姿勢來做快速行動這個就是內容那另外最重要的當然就是說他要這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8430.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8458.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
譬如說我們過去有一些行軍的訓練那這個可能不符合事實上這個作戰的時序我們就把它刪除但是我們會演練這個機動部署、接敵運動、戰力整備等等這些比較在這些戰鬥教練裡面符合我們實戰化訓練的這些要求那這些內容會做得比較多那時間也會比較多讓他整個再熟悉回復到他在做這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8461.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8485.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
這個面對到敵情的狀況的時候他比較能夠有具有這個等於是一個實戰化訓練的內容所以這一次其實大體上是內容上的一些調整就是我太足一些可能已經不是很合用不是很符合現代戰爭需求的一些項目我增加一些新的項目是這樣子的概念嗎對對對因為我們比如說跟委員報告我們之前對整個驗證是在彰化有做過一個驗證之後才有這個模式化的一個課表 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8486.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8498.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
那最後大概可以三步一個就是說他單位的專長互訓跟建設因為他要回到原兵原位之後他要對於他這個原來他的相關的這些武器他要進行一個手裝的訓練然後要進行互訓以後進行建設 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8501.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8517.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
那另外一個最基本的這個鋪槍的這個部分我們希望還有快速的反應那另外一個剛剛有講的作戰計畫的演練整個作戰計畫來這樣子啊因為就講細節可能時間不夠用是這些資料有沒有什麼機敏性然後以至於不能跟社會大眾做說明的 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8520.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8539.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
我們可以私底下跟委員做一個報告那你就會後提供一個報告嘛比如說我總要知道嘛如果萬一比如選民問起來或是很關心的問起來說我如果新的課表我要做哪些心理準備我的意思是說讓有可能被教召的人有提早的心理準備不是一件壞事嘛讓大家充分的狀態調整好再來去參加這個教召整個效果也會比較好 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8539.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8564.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
所以我想不管是強度你要調整也好內容要調整都是你國防部的權限但你要怎麼調整可以跟大家清楚說明的就說明那現在我們又採取會後提供相關資料的方式讓我們了解一下新制教召的改進方式這是第一個請部長提供相關的資料這第二個問題就是這其實是老生常談你要講它是都市傳說也可以你要講它是軍旅的鬼故事也可以就是好像永遠都是有一些人一直被教召有一些人從來沒有被教召過這各式各樣的傳聞不斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8565.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8593.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
那當然嘛這是國防部的官方說法是我們可能有這個電腦抽籤啊現在就全面採取這個抽籤的一個方式啊那同樣網路上也有人爆料說我以前在軍營裡面擔任什麼文職官啊就好像其實還是有名冊啊等等那這件事情一時半刻也講不清楚但我希望從更大更宏觀的角度來看待這件事情在大家在討論教召的時候講說比如說我現在要比如說我要回到原單位來做訓練對不對然後我現在講說我全部都是抽籤第一個我們現在大家講的是如果大家真的要面對一場戰爭準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8594.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8613.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
做心理準備我覺得不應該有區分嘛就是你大家都要訓練到恐怕才是一個教招能夠完成完整意義的一個狀態但是你每次都亂速抽籤的時候那真的有辦法達成這件事嗎就說一比如阿兵哥一號到十號今天一號二號被抽到教招了啊下次他還是有可能被抽到教招對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8614.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8625.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
有沒有可能是比如我精進一下比如我這次被抽到我下一次我排除嘛我抽其他人有沒有機會做到這樣的事情讓整個這個選招的這個抽籤的程序可以更加公平啊這不請國防部說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8626.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8648.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
跟委員報告,我想這個兩部分,一部分當然就是說我們八年內那麼沒有受過教召的當然會納入優先的一個範圍之內這是第一個,第二個但是另外還要考量到他的專長跟他的這個職務的相符性因為畢竟我們教召的目的是我們剛剛講原坪關原位的目標就是讓於 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8649.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8665.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
我們立即能夠優先補充這個常備的主戰部隊讓他能夠及時的恢復戰力那還有包括我們守備旅的部分那這些都是可能又涉及到我們的一個快速恢復戰力的一個目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8666.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8685.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
所以我們會在這兩個目標之下我們盡量的來努力求取一個這是我第二個剛好想要也要請教一下國防部的問題就是你要回援兵員單位的時候那他大家抽到教召的機率啦這我們站在從一般公民的角度嘛就是大家本來日常生活節奏過得好好的突然之間接到 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8685.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8704.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
接到這個叫召通知 當然要去啊 這是國家賦予公民的義務嘛 對不對但是說 我特別倒楣啊 比如我的單位相對來講我就比較多空間資源 那我就常常被叫召有些比較沒有空間資源 或是你沒有特殊需求的這些人就變成不會被叫召這有沒有一個具體的標準 更公平的標準嘛有沒有這樣子的一些配套的一些安排 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8708.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8733.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
我們跟委員報告一下第一個剛剛部長已經講了我們就是後退先用這是保持我們後退戰力的精壯第二個就是八年內這是士兵或者是十二年內軍士官他沒有叫招的一次都沒有叫招的優先這逐次擴大未滿四次的這樣子逐次來選 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8736.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8761.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
這是他選的一個順序那我們補充我們選充的順序也有區分主戰部隊好像269旅、54兩旅、2號炮這種主戰常備部隊還有我們的這個四個守備旅這個都是用援兵歸援衛然後就是他這個專長我們就選這樣子的人來那其次補充的順序就是擴編 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8763.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8764.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
然後最後才是那個戰號梯隊所以說 額 額 額 額額額額額額額額額額額額額額額額額額額額額額額額額額額額額額額額額額額額額額額額額額額額額額額額額額額額額額額額額 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8793.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8805.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
你目標的招訊人數其實是13萬人多嘛13萬6901人對不對然後你實際招訊的人數其實是8萬多人嘛就是它有一個落差真正實際招訊的人數佔你可以招訊的人數大概是佔11%到12%這樣的一個區間那我的意思是講你剛剛有講有順序對不對比如說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8811.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8841.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
這個最近退伍了你可能優先招訓然後有戰備需求的我可能優先招訓但是以你實際上你大概都只能完成全部這個池子裡面的11%左右那我是不是能夠做到至少能夠避免重複的問題因為他已經練過啦你已經練過了再來講這下一次你應該讓更多人有第一次訓練這樣的機會這樣總體戰力才會提升嘛那現在大家常常詬病教召這件事情還去抱怨不公平的時候我重複被抽到這樣的狀況有沒有可能比較比較明確化的有明確的標準可以來做避免然後讓他更公平的 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8842.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8848.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
這個就是剛剛署長有提到的就是說我們一方面要考慮到這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
8850.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
8874.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
補充這個主戰部隊跟守備旅部隊那另外一方面我們也會優先考慮到沒有被招訓過的這些人那我們也會納入這個優先的部那我們每年的招訓的這個目標差不多都為止在11萬到12萬那我們會依照這個大家的檢討然後我們會將這個沒有施訓過的這個部分再符合我們的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
8876.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
8899.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
招訊的這個目標的情況之下我們會來把他納入優先的名冊裡面這個從本席的角度來講我們不能反對教招制度對不對所有接到教招的選民難免都會抱怨對不對但我是講我不能我也不能講因為因為大家都抱怨所以我們講把教招制度給廢掉這是不對的對不對但我至少希望他公平那我的公平意思是你不要讓老大沒特別你說有一些人 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
8899.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
8915.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
真的軍種狀況比較偏後備的比較不是那麼優先那他真的算他運氣好這也沒辦法對不對但我們至少要確定不要重複啦我想這個既不背離戰力最大化的原則也可以兼顧公平性詳細要怎麼來做處理我一樣會後提供一份比較詳細的報告跟說明好不好這有勞國防部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
8917.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
8939.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
最後一點時間我想請教一下以新加坡來講 新加坡也叫招而且他們還非常的隨機廣播到賓號幾號突然之間就要報到等等他們也做得非常非常扎實那他們在叫招的時候所謂的薪資當然就是由企業來負擔但他們的政府會補償企業的損失因為新加坡整個整體薪水品質很高台灣最近經濟發展不是蠻好嘛台積電工程師被抽到叫招半個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
8941.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
8959.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
企業要負擔的薪資總有可能數十萬甚至更高等等我們的政府對企業有沒有反映有相關的一些衝擊的一個狀況我們政府有沒有預作相關的準備因為你現在要逐步的提升教召的頻率跟強度嘛那當然社會要付出一定的代價我想政府也要負擔一定的責任啊在跟企業對接的這一段的時候有沒有聽到什麼樣的意見或什麼樣的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
8961.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
8976.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
僱主就是說他還是要負擔這個薪資的義務,但是他可以按百分之一百五十從他的這個來免除他的所得,就是按他付的薪資按百分之一百五十減稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
8978.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9002.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
減稅這樣足夠嗎目前為止有沒有因為你現在的強我現在講我是預期啦就是說你的教招的強度跟密度跟頻率都會增加嘛那以前大家只是要偶一為之其實鼻子一摸他可能就算了啊但你的頻率增加我們講到大家都要訓練到對不對他可能變成一個慢慢的常態佔人數的比例也可能會增加嘛那未來有沒有可能會有衝擊這個博文會不會有沒有預先評估比如說跟經濟部交換一下意見或什麼的這可能要跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9007.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9020.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
我現在講說譬如說我稅率減免那是從財稅減免的角度那只是一部分嘛對不對我舉幾個例子啦譬如說以色列這個是徵召啦因為他們是真的會在打仗的地方他的僱主要付薪資的80% |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9021.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9046.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
然後政府運用社會保險的經費補足剩下20%就大概是用這樣一個方式那新加坡是負全心國家將雇主因為員工被教召的損失補償直接補償給雇主這大家做法不一樣當然國家量體有大有小狀況也不見得一樣這本席願意理解但是我覺得如果未來這整個的強度跟頻率是提升的要早做準備所以我建議啊良心建議國防部可能經濟部也好財政部也好好好開一個會預先為這樣的衝擊來預作超前部署可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9049.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9059.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
我們來跟相關單位來研議一下現在是按他的所得的百分之一百五十來減稅嘛你現在等於是減稅來加減稅嘛現在是不是有其他進一步可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9060.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9079.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
說由政府來補償 這個可能不是國防部可以對 它是華部的所以我先講 你總要開始對話 要預先掌握你不要等到強度拉起來了然後開始很多抱怨的時候 我再補破網我覺得可能就來不及了好 預作準備 這樣可以嗎好 這三個問題就麻煩國防部會後這個稍微做一下研究 好嗎好 辛苦了 謝謝謝謝 好 謝謝 謝謝牛委員接下來請王紅薇委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9094.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9106.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
好 謝謝主席請我們郭麗熊部長還有今天是這個電展室是執行長請電展室執行長是 王維好 部長我們電展室這個單位它主要有徵收中共的訊號情報跟無線通訊的功能 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9125.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9152.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
我想電展室它有它的一些特殊的任務有些特殊任務嘛那所以這個被外界稱為說這個是共軍最想摸底的單位因為它是一個包含情資還有收集中共的這些通訊的資料那我想請問一下部長或者執行長來回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9153.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9175.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
知不知道最近在網路上有一個是號稱是我們電展市國防部的外派人員他基本上是在一個靠北長官的網站上他所提出來的寫了一篇文章他的文章的標題叫做在泰國鄉下角落當老鼠的日子 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9178.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9200.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
然後這個文章基本上是抱怨就說他在外派的時間他就非常賭爛了就說包含他的待遇啦他的工作等等之類包含他覺得這個經費有被這個中間有被黑掉等等但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9203.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9229.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
他這整篇文章本來是有人讓我要特別去照顧國軍弟兄讓我特別照顧國軍弟兄然後提供這個資料他說要讓國防部照顧國軍弟兄即便他們是在海外派駐也要看一下他們到底是過什麼樣的日子可是呢我一看之後其實我是大吃一驚因為在裡面的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9233.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9255.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
第一個如果他今天因為他主要的任務就是去攔截中共相關的情報還有他的無線通訊但是相關的內容其實有很多的外洩資料我相信這都是極機密的事情應該都是極機密的內容包含所處的地點所處的地點 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9259.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9287.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
還有裡面還有我們地點的照片裡面外面的照片通通都有還有它的location的資料另外包含一些它的外國無線電高頻的這些頻段的訊號也都在文章裡面第三個一些人員的資訊就是用英文的名單也通通在裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9289.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9304.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
我一看之後我其實有點嚇到啊這些資料第一個所以我想我相信到現在國防部不可能不知道因為事實上我們的辦公室也有跟國防部來做了解第一個有可能的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9305.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9322.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
他是不是完全的假訊息假造的這個你們應該現在了解了到底這是不是完全的假訊息第二這裡面是不是中間確實有我們外派的國防部的同仁 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9323.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9344.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
他可能心裡真的是覺得只是想靠北但是卻把一些機密性的資料外洩出去第三個 這些裡面所提的相關的資料有部分是正確 但是有部分是假造我為什麼要特別提出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9344.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9364.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
因為在泰國的媒體已經有報導我們台灣媒體可能沒有人注意到泰國的媒體已經有人有報導最重要的是它裡面還揭露了說我們電展室的泰國的這個單位還有蒐集其他東盟國家的資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9366.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9393.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
所以這裡面的資料我覺得實在是太勁爆了國防部現在了解的狀況到底是什麼是不是可以做一個說明或者你們還沒有調查清楚是不是應該去做調查我意思說這裡面如果有假訊息有假訊息也要交接假訊息的來源因為這裡面其實如果把它弄出來真的會有外交的危機的對不起上來的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9396.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9418.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
委員好 包委員我是簽報次長好 次長好是 包委員您剛剛提的這件事情第一時間我們國防部也有掌握那因為剛剛竹東委員剛剛所在質詢的過程當中提示到的這個牽涉到的不僅僅是單單這件事件所以我們建議不要在這個公開的場合跟委員做太詳細的說明 謝謝好 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9421.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9444.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
所以按照你的回答我大概知道你的意思所以我覺得這一定要徹查這絕對不是我們任何有關住宅單位所洩漏的這個部分而且這個訊息的內容有不實的所以部長現在立刻說就是這個內容不實嘛因為部長我不曉得你有沒有看到這個相關的資料你有沒有看到這篇文章 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9445.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9466.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
是 我有 他們有第一時間就跟我報告那你 就是我們很正式的說 這裡面是假訊息 是嗎我們認為這個 第一個 我想說明 因為您提到說這個是不是我們駐外的單位的人員去這個 我在這邊表示是沒有這樣的一件事情那裡面的這個內容也有諸多不實的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9467.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9476.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
好 這個可能 那如果你們覺得不宜公開講的話因為至少我提出來 因為連國外的媒體都有在報導好 另外一件事 時間給我一點點就是那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9481.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9484.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
星光部隊因為在今年的年初我們有媒體曝光了星光部隊訓練的資訊可是在川習會之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9498.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9518.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
結果呢 日經新聞認為說 這個是我們的一個 等於說對中的一個威嚇可是日經新聞的評論是說 這樣的訊息的外洩可能加重了新加坡的外交壓力最主要是今年年初 今年年初 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9520.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9543.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
Asia Times 亞洲時報有說來自於新加坡軍方人士的投書說如果兩岸情勢升高 那麼新加坡不排除將星光部隊撤離台灣所以我想請問部長 這是今年初的消息然後呢 我們在專席會前 星光部隊恆春受訓的影片又外流 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9543.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9559.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
而日經新聞他的這個評論是說這樣的一個影片外流反而加重了新加坡的外交壓力我想知道一下到目前為止星光部隊有可能從台灣撤離嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9561.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9586.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
跟委員報告 我想我們跟新加坡之間的軍事交流一直維持正常的一個運作沒有聽過有任何其他您所提到的相關的訊息也沒有這樣的事實存在好 所以到目前為止雖然有這個聯署有這樣的投書到目前為止 星光我們長達應該是超過50年的一個這樣子的一個合作一個受訓的合作還是會繼續的持續 是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9590.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9596.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
我們跟新加坡之間的軍事交流一直會維持正常的一個按照我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9597.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9627.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
規定的方向來持續來交流運作但是另外一方面我剛剛在特別講到我不管是前面那個訊息是基於什麼樣原因是抱怨還靠北還是怎麼樣還是有特別的因素他的這樣的一個訊息的流出或者是新光部隊授訊影片的外流其實我覺得都會加重我們處理一些事務的壓力所以我覺得保密是非常非常重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9640.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9653.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
接下來我們請蘇星泉委員蘇星泉委員蘇星泉委員不在接下來請鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員不在接下來有請馬文君委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9661.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9664.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
謝謝主席 麻煩請顧部長我請部長部長午安部長我們今天特別訂這個專報最重要的當然是雖然有一些個案不斷的在澄清那另外就是因為我們的教昭制度事實上它也做了一些變動 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9689.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9703.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
還有就是我們過去因為有牽涉到我們志願役還有義務役還有我們在募賓的這個過程當中其實也造成我們可能有一些來源會有就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9705.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9712.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
偏少的這樣的狀況所以已經形成了一些問題存在我們也希望藉由這一次的專報可以徹底的去把所有的問題全部再檢視一次因為我們在很倉促的情況之下在比如說111年我們成立權動數的時候事實上那時候有很多的政策還有包括跟後備的後備指揮部相關的這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9734.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
9742.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
就是我們在很多的業務上面或者我們應該執行的部分其實現在也都造成了一些後續的影響那我們現在看到的是大家都覺得說我們這個在成立的時候那時候我們所訓練總能量可以增加到29萬人 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
9754.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
9782.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
而且一年以內可以邊管26萬8千餘人可以實訓完畢可是到目前為止這個訓量並沒有達成那到底是什麼原因我們經過了這幾年我們有把原因找出來嗎就這一些部分簡單的說明好不好委員好 我跟委員報告委員剛才提到的就是應該是說在109年我們有一個專案報告裡面提到就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
9783.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
9795.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
一年的邊管有26.8萬人這件事嘛我先跟委員報告所謂邊管它是包含三部分就是我們要邊時動員、擴邊動員、軍情隊跟戰號戰號補充這四種那我們平常教育召集就是做邊時擴邊跟軍情隊這三部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
9806.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
9822.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
那當時是怎麼樣說他就是說算出來可以達到一年可以訓26.8萬這個我不太清楚就是他怎麼計算的但是以目前的招訓的政策跟流入的規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
9824.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
9830.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
今年之前都是兩年一訓兩年一訓都是12.5萬人左右我們舉一個例子來說好了因為這中間已經有發生我們自己定的目標數或者我們實際的施訓的這樣子的一個數量其實是跟我們現在實際達到 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
9847.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
9851.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
就實際到訊數其實是差距很大的以113年為例好了我們實際的到訊數是82000餘人只佔較早目標數12萬餘人的67%而且跟當初提出來的失訊目標268000人差異更大所以我們必須要去找出這些相關的原因那剛剛也提到我們聽到有很多就是你可以在這個在可能有特殊情況的時候可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
9878.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
9892.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
可以不用來包括出國還有很多其他的狀況可是現在像這種和免的條件因為我們現在的樣態也非常多所以其實沒有來的事實上也很多我們現在看到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
9892.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
9895.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
除了剛剛的以外他到底是什麼原因我們希望你們再有一個具體的一個說明到底為什麼我們道訓宿還有跟我們這些人數差這麼多包括我們的訓練的設施訓練的場地或者我們的裝備到底夠了沒這個部分我們在這個報告裡面沒有沒有完整的看到這個部分後續我們希望提供詳細的書面資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
9917.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
9939.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
可是我們還要再提到的雖然說今天不提個案可是也因為個案讓大家去看到這個問題因為我們過去教召你說因為一般常態的認知他大概覺得就是8年大概4次可是你現在把它延到12年或者從7天5天到7天從今年開始變成都是14天這個我們有正式公告嗎這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
9942.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
9961.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
第一個就是有正式公告嗎這個都有公告什麼時候公告正式的公告我們說正式的公告讓所有的因為這個關乎所有藝男的權益國防部有義務要公告或明確的告知讓所有的國人知道他們才會有準備我們有正式的公告嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
9962.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
9981.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
這就是要全面實施14天在今年的這個2月多的這個春節應該是說記者的參緒裡面已經有都對外公佈說明了另外就是說在今年5月多的時候也是這個委員會的我們國防部的這個這個業務報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
9982.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10002.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
這個部分都不是正式的公告我們所謂的正式公告是你從過去他可能可以算兩次叫招到你變成一次而且今年全面的就是14天其實並沒有正式公告我們看到的媒體的大概這個只有內部的自己講說算一次只有內部講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10003.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10008.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
一直到我們排了這個專報以後才有正式的對外在我們的網站上面有這樣的出現所以這個部分我們希望我們國家政策尤其像這個會關乎到大家生涯的規劃或者你在就業或者在家庭或者在經濟生活上面都會造成影響因為你過去五天七天其實也是有影響包括像農業它也有影響你已經在要豐收的一個階段你如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10030.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10036.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
五天七天不收那就已經很難了現在甚至要找人都很難那你現在一次十四天那更難所以就這些你都應該要很清楚的讓國人知道你可以有變動我們為了國家的需求要提升戰力要提升這個訓練的量能可是你必須把國人的權益放在上位這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10051.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10065.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
我們要求正式要求這個部分我們希望在後續可以有更妥善的一個方式那另外在今天的報告裡面還有一個重要的部分大概就是女性後備軍人正式要納入後備役的管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10067.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10085.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
那在過去我們其實為什麼會特別規劃女性在除了獎勵措施以外歷年女性志願參加教招訓練的有多少人從開始對從開始112年到現在總共有79位完訓那我們下令大概是98位 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10095.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10108.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
其實他人數很少 今年大概12人而已今年目前已合訂下令的是10個 完訓的是3位所以他的人數都非常少 而且你本來其實之前相關的資料大概是百餘人剛剛說90幾位 可是人員越來越少 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10111.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10136.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
我們在這裡要特別提醒國防部部長也在今天基於以上參與的人數國軍是基於什麼迫切原因因為過去你們沒有把女性的志願役的這個納入那你現在要修法把它納入它的原因是什麼它的迫切性還有必要性還有要積極的修法我們剛剛聽到的是說公平可是我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10138.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10142.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
這種鼓勵的措施都還不夠補充國軍常備或守備部隊的人數嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10146.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10168.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
我想女性的因為我們是就她已經從事志願役嘛我知道因為我們過去沒有把女性志願役納入嘛為什麼那有一個考量就是因為女性可能她在別隊伍以後或者她在家庭扮演的角色那她的小孩可能很小所以其實我們那時候沒有特別把她納入 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10169.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10187.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
而是用那種獎勵性質的可是現在我們要修法把它納入我們現在的說法是說公平性那我們現在也要特別提到也要提醒因為我們現在如果說他可以不來大概有幾我舉例就是說假設你只有一個小孩他是兩歲以下你就可以不用來可是他如果三歲他還是要他超過兩歲還是要來 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10195.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10214.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
你如果有兩個小孩兩個都要在七歲以下如果剛好一個五歲或一個八歲那他的整個家庭都會受到很大的影響我們現在要說的不是他們不可以做這樣的修改可是你過去在招募他們的時候你是說他們並沒有納入的所以我們要明確的想要知道就是說這個規劃的這個草案會不會溯及既往 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10224.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10238.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
有關那個施行的這個時間涉及到的這個有一些相關性愛保護原則的部分我們現在還在審議當中所以要怎麼樣子來界定一個施行 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10239.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10247.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
在什麼時候之前然後在什麼時候這我們還要再研究一下這個我們先提醒因為女性官士兵其實他們當時要進來服役的時候這個條件可能也是他們納入考量的那他通常在家庭裡面他有要負擔照顧小孩或者 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10255.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10276.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
他的運期啊各方面所以基於這樣的考量我們當時是沒有把它納入你現在要納入應該要考量剛剛部長已經有提到了是不是有說集計網他規劃由哪一年入營的官兵開始執行然後目前已經在營的女性軍事官兵她在入營前是否已經善盡告知的義務這些都要必須要有具體的一個考量好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10280.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10282.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
我們會跟行政院做一個詳細的演繹這個部分因為我們不希望每次對於軍公教因為他們在過去其實已經受到年金改革的時候已經認為說對他們在政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10298.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10299.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
這個部分再請部長多費心那另外跟主席接一點時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10328.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10350.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
我們看到 速發部 資安署它有發布 有接獲FortiBridge 情資就是指出Fortinet 防火牆或VPN的憑證 可能已經遭到竊取那這個情資已經列出受害網站 請各單位要注意配合 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10350.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10366.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
那在今天下班之前可能針對Fortinet的設備升級或者最新版本無法升級的應該暫停使用升級以後管理的應該要重新登入以改用高強度雜湊演算法 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10367.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10372.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
為什麼要特別提到這個部分我們去年在11月12號有招標一個6點多億的資安建設案這個國防部對我們來說其實是非常重要因為它甚至整合BNS是國軍營區網路管理核心系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10386.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10398.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
一旦整個設備遭到入侵等同於讓駭客可以取得整個軍區網路的監控以及控制權這個三月份的時候我們在委員會有委員我們都有特別提出來那在質詢的時候陸軍有說在服務計畫書裡面的階段有疑慮還可以再審 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10408.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10419.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
現在才六月份 治安署已經正式要求所有Fortinet這個使用單位都要立即更改密碼而且現管介面升級設備 這證明當時並不是多慮 而是 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10423.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10425.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
陸軍還有國防部把這個國防邊界的防火牆的真實風險其實把它當成得標以後的行政的問題因為在決標的過程當中我們當時提出來還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10439.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10442.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
徐委員也有提出在決標的邏輯設備選行到資格審查幾乎每一個關鍵環節都有疑點一個關係國軍機民網路跟安全的系統最終由治安經驗最少 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10454.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10457.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
的廠商而且在不降價的這個情況下得標當時參與投標的甚至還有中華電信可是我們選的廠商卻是經驗最少的而且沒有做過大型資安的這樣的經驗的廠商他去得標 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10472.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10478.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
而且他的設備又選用近年被多國情報機構示警高風險設備甚至國安認證也都不具備的情況之下他卻得標了我們當時一再的強調當時3月才在質詢現在才6月我們自己的訴發部已經提出這樣的警訊這個部分我們當時的作為跟現在有採取什麼樣的作為嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10499.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10527.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
跟委員報告 委員我是通知室次長有關Fortinet這家公司在當時的時候我們已經做過一個全面性的調查它是在歐洲一個是非常使用廣泛的一個一個資安管控的一個公司那它在速發部在各家的廠商它也都有相關的防火牆漏洞要修補的一個公告各家的公告 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10529.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10546.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
我們都會從速發部的網站那邊獲得了之後我們會同步的告訴我們全國軍的人所有的系統都要做同樣的設備的更新我們剛剛講得非常清楚因為你有三家廠商 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10547.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10574.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
有很多都有比較大的這樣資安管理系統建置的經驗可是我們卻沒有選擇我們選擇最沒有經驗的而且最貴然後他的設備已經受到警示當時也有提出來那時候的說明是說還在服務計劃書的階段照理說服務計劃書就是他得標的結果可是我們那時候卻還用服務計劃書讓他有機會去做調整這個部分我想現在先 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10576.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
10601.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
你要回答嗎包委員有關於您剛才講包含到徐委員和您所指導的提醒的這個案子事實上我們陸軍非常重視那有關於我就兩點說明第一個這個得標廠商我們除了他的資本額之外我們也是著重他的一個履約時機他事實上是在國內有實際上在資安方面的履約的 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
10601.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
10629.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
那第二個有關這個Fortinet的疑慮我們目前是要求要經過我們國家的資安認證也就是如果確實有疑慮他是不會安裝這個防火牆我剛剛已經講得很清楚我們3月的時候質詢速發部在6月也在幾天前就已經通報所有的相關單位這個部分部長我想請部長也要慎重的去了解這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
10630.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
10642.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
它本來就會定時對各項這個防火牆的這些漏洞它會定時公佈不是只有Fortinet或其他相關的不是 這一個已經造成七萬多台受到影響而且全國有一百多個國家都受到影響這是一個情資 這是速發部獲得Fortinet |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
10654.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
10674.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
受到他可能已經遭受竊取的情資才警示的這個部分我們要求我確定這個委員的講話我只是在說明數碼部都會定時的對不同的這個設備的這種防火牆的設備都會定時的去公佈它哪些有一些漏洞的狀況所以不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
10675.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
10701.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
不是單純只針對Fortinet它對其他的各項的資安的防火牆都會有一些定時的發布部長我知道那個部分速發布它會有它的全責在可是我們現在說的是這一個是因為我們國軍營區網路管理核心系統這個不是普通的防火牆是整個軍網的中樞我們每年編了大筆的預算我們一直要做很嚴密的這樣的一個資安的管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
10703.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
10727.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
我們也編了這麼高的預算去做這樣的服務可是我們現在才多久的時間已經發生這樣的問題這個部分大家請國防部還有我們相關的單位要正視這個問題而且可能在很快的時間提出說明好不好那就這個部分我們也希望說因為這個部分也必須 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
10728.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
10735.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
可能我們沒有辦法要求政府公開受害的IP或帳號因為避免造成二次風險可是國防部不能迴避責任因為這個部分牽涉到我們所有國軍整個軍區網路還有監控還有它的控制權所以就這個部分我們要求國防部應該對立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
10749.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
10755.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
要有一個機密的說明比如說像陸軍國防部軍網維運商還有得標廠商還有關鍵基礎設施是否出現在這個Fort Blay的這個情資清單當中要怎麼樣完成逐項的建設跟補救這個部分是否在一定的期限內可以提出具體的說明跟補救的措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
10778.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
10804.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
委員是希望我們提一個書面報告我們這些剛剛提到的這些單位有沒有在這個清單裡面有沒有你們現在掌握的因為已經很多天了所以委員是希望我們事後提一個報告嗎還是看部長應該要提報告還是你要做一個機密的一個說明還是我們去跟委員做說明就好了還是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
10805.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
10814.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
那你們也要說明說這個後續因為這個廠商剛剛你們說他有時機其實並不對因為不是沒有時機了那委員如果想要知道一些狀況我們再跟您在這邊做一個溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
10824.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
10850.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
我們並不希望我們每次提到問題而且它已經發生了而且是全世界都受到影響速發部也提出警示我們國防部的立場應該要立即去補救而且甚至不可以造成傷害不是幫廠商講說它是合規的我們每次提出來我們聽到的國防部都是幫廠商講話這是讓我們覺得最不能接受的因為我們用的是納綴機 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
10850.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
10860.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
因為漏洞的這個示警預警本來就是樹花部定時在做的我們根據這個預警都會就就這些相關的這些設備要完成這個漏洞的修改定期的示警跟獲得情資是不一樣的他這一次是獲得情資是已經被害而且他的VPN跟所有的這個防火牆其實他是有被竊已經有可能被竊這個才是我們擔心的如果我們連這個都做不到那以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
10877.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
10895.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
不要說你們還可以做多好的資安防護因為你編再多的錢都沒用你買的設備其實已經被害或者被竊取或者你防堵的措施沒有辦法去做有效的因應我們沒有辦法相信我們編再多的預算給國防部這樣是有用的好不好請部長在幾天內可以提出這樣的一個具體的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
10903.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
10915.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
我們再找是不是請那個我們再跟委員做一個說明你們現在有掌握了嗎因為發生很多天了是我們我們就跟委員做找時間就跟委員做個說明好不好謝謝好的感謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
10932.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
10955.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
接下來請黃建斌委員黃建斌黃建斌委員不在請侯孟楷侯孟楷侯孟楷委員不在我們今天已登記質詢委員除不在場外均已發言完畢報告及詢答結束本日會議有黃仁委員林楚英委員黃建斌委員徐巧欣委員以及陳冠廷委員鍾嘉斌委員提出書面質詢請列入記錄刊登公報 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
10956.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
10972.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
委員書面及口頭質詢未及答覆的部分會要求補充資料者請國防部兩週內以書面答覆委員有約定期限者從期鎖定6月24、25日為兩天一次會現在休息謝謝 |