| IVOD_ID |
17536 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17536 |
| 日期 |
2026-06-18 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-23-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期交通委員會第19次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
19 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期交通委員會第19次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2026-06-18T08:33:02+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-06-18T10:54:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
02:20:58 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/f826c2e4afc302dd102c86100c6a69f365a7fab23d1a78cb6dbd1a1f1ae502163624d7ca21d2846c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-06-18T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期交通委員會第19次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於交通部主管交通作業基金－鐵道發展基金分預算。
二、審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於交通部主管交通作業基金－臺鐵局撥入資產及債務管理基金分預算。【一、本日會議僅進行詢答；二、兩基金預算提案截止收件時間為6月18日下午4時】
【6月17日及18日二天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:33:02 - 10:54:00 |
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好我們今天繼續開會我們先介紹在場委員侯孟楷委員李坤澤委員那麼介紹今天列席人員交通部政務次長武聖元次長交通部快遞處處長黃洪文處長鐵道局楊振軍局長鐵道局主計是陳康廷主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1685.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1699.876 |
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行政院主計總署基金預算處李鎮道科長我們今天進行審查鐵道發展基金台鐵債務管理基金非營業預算現在先進行報告請交通部武次長進行報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1710.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1737.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
好 謝謝主席主席 各位委員 各位女士 先生今天應邀列席貴園會就本部鐵道局115年度鐵道發展基金還有台鐵波路資產以及債務管理基金的業務計畫還有這個分預算編列的情形提出報告請表感謝之意鐵道發展基金辦理鐵道發展還有監理相關作業和高速鐵路站區的聯外道路系統改善計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1738.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1760.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
高鐵永續經營投資計畫高速鐵路屏東車站特定區區段徵收開發計畫等三項市場性的計畫115年度將持續就鐵道入網的一個規劃鐵道營運監理 廠站開發以及鐵道產業四個面向的業務來推動多項的重要工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1760.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1788.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
能夠促進鐵路運輸以及相關廠站產業的一個發展另外台鐵步入資產的以及債務的管理基金110年度將跟續辦理資產活化作業來參與台北車站特定專用區E1 E2街坡都市更新案還有高雄車站周邊大都更的一個綱要計畫並積極和國家鐵道博物館籌備處來延伸成立行政法人以及後續的 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1790.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1817.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
營運營餘的一個分論定期來滾動檢討債務的長緩情形適時調整資產開發策略以及財務的一個規劃達成清償債務的一個目標有關鐵道局115年度的一個鐵道發展基金還有台鐵撥入資產以及債務管理基金分預算案的一個編列內容等一下我們請楊局長來向各位委員提出報告以及說明敬請各位委員予以支持謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1821.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1823.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
好 謝謝吳市長接下來我們請鐵道局楊振興局長報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1835.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1851.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
主席各位委員今天應邀到貴遠會舊鐵道局所管理115年度鐵道發展基金及台鐵債務管理基金提出報告 敬請各位委員指教首先報告鐵道發展基金的部分114年度的預算執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1852.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1881.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
的情形111年度鐵道發展基金的總預算收入數決算數是125.4億元那主要是因為收取高鐵公司的回饋金及批文專戶的收入增加第二個部分總支出的部分決算數是12億元那主要的這個減少是因為我們補助這個雲林地層下限的節水獎勵金實際的發放情形較低所致 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1882.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1898.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
那115年度的重點業務主要可以分成兩個大部分來跟大家做報告第一個部分是鐵道發展及監理的相關業務這個部分有四項主要的業務主軸首先是鐵道路網的規劃那這個部分我們補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1899.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1918.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
或者是自行辦理這個地方的捷運系統跟環島鐵路的相關路網的規劃工作在鐵路系統的部分115年度持續辦理高鐵延伸的兩個計畫以及台鐵海線雙軌跟彰化鐵路高架南回鐵路線型改善的綜合規劃作業 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1920.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1947.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
同時補助地方政府辦理南投線軌道整體路網評估左營道橋頭鐵路立體化台南善化鐵路立體化台南隆田車站佔房改建的這樣的一個評估等可行性研究作業在捷運系統路網方面補助相關的地方政府辦理捷運路網優先路線的可行性研究先期作業或綜合規劃包含了115年度的基隆捷運 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1948.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1977.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
桃園捷運青線及橘線台中捷運崇德豐原線與橘線台南黃線等等的相關規劃作業第二個主要工作是鐵道營運監理那鐵道營運監理以安全為首要的一個重點在制度面將持續檢討鐵路法規相關的一些規定跟必要的一些制度變革作業在實際執行面將加強鐵路監理檢察員的檢查深度以及廣度 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1978.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2000.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
調查及檢討鐵路行車事故的發生原因並追蹤鐵路機構的改進作業同時115年度也將繼續補助相關的鐵道營運機構遵循智慧鐵道的架構跟標準通訊協定發展智慧鐵道雲平台跟數位基礎建設期望能夠透過數據的整合 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2000.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2023.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
進一步提升鐵道的安全跟營運效能第三個主要工作是廠站開發我想大家都清楚高鐵相關的戰區開發作業目前已經有相當的一個成效但是115年度我們將持續辦理台南站的產業專用區的招商作業期望持續來發展TOD跟綠色能源、綠建築等 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2023.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2042.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
永續的這樣的一個戰區發展第四個部分是鐵道產業那主要的工作呢將持續推動鐵路營運機構的維修備品在地化同時呢推動車輛設計及整合列車監控及監視系統等等的自主在地化的研發第二個部分呢將補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2044.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2062.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
相關的大專院校進行鐵道產業所需的專業人才的培育工作第三是完善鐵道檢測相關配套的一個技術法規跟實質的檢測驗證的作業能量鐵道發展基金的第二項主要的大工作是市場性的計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2063.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2091.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那首先是高鐵站區領外道路系統改善計畫這個計畫是在高鐵通車初期也就是民國90年到96年左右相關的一些領外道路建設計畫目前已經全數完成現階段是在進行當初的這個投入400億左右的資金的一個償還工作那這些相關的償還是利用高鐵相關的沿線租金跟部分的這個場站開發的效益來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2092.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2118.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
後續的償還工作那目前我們的估計是可以達到百分之百的這樣的一個市場那第二個主要工作是高鐵永續投資計畫那主要是在高鐵採改的時候交通部投資高鐵的相關的這個股本的部分115年度將根據辦理加以事業發展用地的招商同時完成了台灣高鐵公司股權投資資本的回收的財務市場 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2119.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2137.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那第三個工作是高鐵屏東車站特定區的區段徵收作業開發企劃115年度將根據辦理區段徵收相關的土地查估安置研擬部分的先期作業115年度鐵道發展基金的預算編列情形業務總收入編列預算114億114.7億左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2142.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2160.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那主要的是預估可以持續收取高鐵公司的平穩專戶的收入那在總支出的部分目前預估數是15.7億元那較上年度略有增加主要是補助台南市政府辦理高鐵站區也就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2161.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2174.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我們高鐵台南站跟山景的這個事業用地之間的一個人形空橋的這個建設工作那同時將偵編鐵道路網的規劃作業所需要的一些費用 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2176.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2201.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
其他的預算額度相對較小我就略過第二個部分是跟大家報告台鐵常債基金114年度的預算執行情形114年度預算總收入決算數是35.4億元總支出決算數是33.2億元主要的部分是在償還利息這樣的一個部分以及部分的本金的償還 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2202.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2228.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那115年度的業務重點計畫呢第一點是希望能夠持續來救這個資產的相關的債務來做償還那麼這個基金是在113年度成立到目前為止非常感謝貴人會跟大院的支持我們已經完成台北機場容積移轉所需要的這個基本的這個法令規範現在正在制定細部的作業原則當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2229.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2245.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
那後續可以持續來辦理這個相關的這些容積的儲分那讓我們的這個償還的能力可以持續來加強第二個主要工作是靈活運用各項的這個工具來降低債務的這個成本包括發行公債 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2246.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2268.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那115年度的預算編列情形在總收入的部分編列預算47億元那主要還是因應市場利息的這樣的一個變動第二個在總支出的部分將編列34.4億元左右那這個部分是剛剛的這個利息的收入來支付利息的支出 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2269.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2289.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那長期債務的償還計畫預估115年度可以償還16.2億元左右那以上兩個基金的這個施政績效鐵道發展基金將持續就三項的自償性計畫如期來進行這個執行目前看到的是都可以達成百分之百的自償目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2290.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2313.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
同時持續就鐵道路網的發展跟監理相關的作業來推動多項的重要工作台鐵常在基金的部分115年度的工作重點將在112也就是台北車站特定區的都市更新的開發案同時在高雄的部分我們已經完成高雄港站土地容積的這個調派到台鐵的相關開發基地後續也會參與台鐵公司的這個開發作業 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2318.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2347.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那鐵道局將持續就鐵道路網的規劃鐵道監理、廠站開發以及鐵道產業等四項施政主軸來持續進行以完善相關的配套措施以及達成軌道是台灣最重要的一個基礎建設的這樣的一個工作以上是鐵道局就115年度鐵道發展基金跟台鐵債務基金的預算案的一個報告敬請各位委員指教予以支持謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2350.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2373.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
好 我們謝謝鐵道局楊潤英局長現在進行詢答先宣告以下事項詢答時間出席委員6加2分鐘列席委員4加1分鐘委員發言登記於10點30分截止各委員如有提案請於9點半前提出以便議事人員會診我們暫定10點30分休息10分鐘現在請登記第一位李昆哲委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2384.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2388.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
謝謝召委 請一下伍聖遠次長 楊振軍局長來 請伍次長跟楊局長次長 我記得在2021年北迴縣的清水斷崖前 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2402.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2418.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
北圍縣的清水隧道之前這個太魯閣至強號因為施工的工程車翻覆造成重大的一個傷亡那2022年高雄的東南水泥在施工造成他們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2420.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2434.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
倒塌造成重大的延誤電塔的倒塌造成重大的延誤其實這兩樣零軌工程所造成的重大傷亡或者是車輛延誤都讓國人記憶猶新 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2437.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2452.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
那今天的凌晨五點多到苗栗到竹南之間的西振縣也發生了怪手在鐵道橋樑的上面因為修剪樹木造成翻覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2454.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2482.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
目前是整個以東鎮線來作為雙向的通車那什麼時候會恢復通車呢 來說明一下是 各位委員報告我想這個原因主要是大概是算是疫情的工作跟之前所提到的那些不太一樣在疫情工作那因為要修剪樹木所以因為在林軌所以必須怪手有去改善有去改裝一些那個上面的一個剪頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2483.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2502.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
那我們在操作的時候他的手臂伸得太過去了所以重心不穩就這樣偏下去那我想這部分目前是剛提到的西正線是暫停東京線雙向通車目前大概在中午以前可以來完成這中午以前可以完成通車預計會影響多少班次 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2504.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2526.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
到目前他現在統計目前大概影響大概有6個班次是停止那影響大概目前有30個班次我想後續我們會再把相關的這個影響運轉的部分把它降到最低包括我們的一些階段期那個階段期期短的部分來去做一些運轉 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2526.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2539.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
好 這是誰的怪手 誰的工程是外包商在處理的嗎對 是台鐵工程他委託外包商來操作因為樹木有時候會侵入這個軌道所以他去做這個樹木上的一個修剪 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2539.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2558.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
那樹木上修剪我看這個怪手是開到鐵道的橋樑上面去做修剪當然這個怪手他的這個前緣啦也可以裝置修剪樹木的相關的器具那這個軌道他也可以上到這個軌道的橋樑上面但這樣一個工法不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2559.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2581.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
覺得非常的奇特嗎確實災林軌工程因為它有一些地形上的限制所以它不得不所以就剛提到的我們那個怪手裡面的那個那本來履帶要變成所謂的膠輪去做就是這樣的話保護那個軌道然後一邊因為只有那個軌道裡面可以進去旁邊也進不了 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2581.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2598.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
所以那為了把那個樹木把它修剪掉只能從軌道進去然後用怪手裡面改裝的那個頭去把那個樹木把它做一個修剪這是不得不的好我們在軌道啊在整個修復的過程裡面通常都會 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2599.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2616.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
封閉相關的軌道那它是在清晨5點多相關的列車還沒有行駛之前對所造成的一個翻覆是那我們在施工期間如果是列車通行的時間也是會封鎖相關的軌道嗎應該是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2618.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2646.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
對 如果是我們在軌道上有侵入軌道之餘一定要施工我就一定會做辦理封鎖甚至如果會有感電之餘我也會斷電這是我們的標準作業程序那相關的作業措施就是說我們現在在平時的軌道的車輛的一個運行正常運行之間如果臨時有義務入侵我們相關的義務入侵系統的裝置以及相關的這樣的一個處理程序是如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2648.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2662.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
因為在幾個比較重要的 譬如說我們過去在剛才提到那個大清水之前的那個斷崖那個地方我們在花東比較地質比較差的地方我們現在都有做一些所謂的告警也是一日入侵的時候會有一些告警 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2662.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2678.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
那這部分我想我們會依照 那個部會連到我們的行控中心我們一次到以後 當地的 我們就立即會通知這個車輛停駛然後由當地的那個公務段去做一個確認那如果確認沒問題以後 才可以繼續開放這個行車 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2681.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2702.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
市長我們對於鐵道相關的工程尤其是零軌工程相關的安全的維護是要百分之百不能打折扣的我剛才已經提醒過你2021年的太魯閣自強號在清水隧道之前所造成的重大傷亡以及2022年 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2705.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2715.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
東南水泥電塔倒塌造成台鐵高鐵的重大的延誤這都是讓國人對於安全對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2717.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2745.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
營運的效率啊都產生重大的信心動搖那今天早上凌晨五點的這樣的一個怪手翻覆啊其實也對國人的日常的上班上課啊造成重大的一個影響那目前東正線雙向通車這個部分目前的運行都還算正常嗎是目前都還正常好那相關的我們對於啊這樣的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2746.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2766.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
重大的延誤更重要的是我們要及時的通知我們的旅客不管是車站的告示牌不管是我們的官方網站以及相關的訊息像現在目前台鐵這樣造成重大的延誤我們通知旅客的訊息管道有哪幾樣來簡單說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2767.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2782.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
感恩委員包括像以今天來講大概我們在群組我們有個群組不管是布尼妹也好或是台鐵公司本身我也有參加這個是官方的一個通知的管道我現在講的是一般旅客受到影響食指受到影響的旅客 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2783.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2811.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
是 我跟委員報告剛剛講的我們這邊就會第一個會先成立一級應變小組像今天成立一級應變小組第二個把這些相關資訊會在各車站裡面去做一個告示多宣導跟旅客宣導那我們的採取應變措施是什麼那中間可能有一些比較期間的部分可能會因為這樣的為了讓長途可以走的話會取消這部分我想我們在的公告還有包括我們官網上都會做這樣一個公告的一個資訊的一個公告 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2812.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2829.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
這個是在橋樑上面那如果方副掉到河裡或是在整個重型機具要去把這一台方副的怪獸做處理的時候也是相當的困難這個都必須要緊急的一個快速處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2831.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2841.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
我接下來要問在五月底的時候我們鐵道局北部工程分局在處理集結A14車站的工程那 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2843.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2860.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
相關的分包商有傳出說以商務履約服務的這樣一個名義邀請八名中國的技術人員短期入境那他們進入工區進行特殊的造型天花吸引內襯的技術指導來這個鐵道局楊局長你說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2865.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2892.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
跟委員報告我想這一個事件那就我們現在的這個查處的情況第一個這個是我們的一個下包商他對中國大陸所下的這樣的一個定料那這個採購行為目前我們的這個查明是符合採購法的相關規範因為他不是屬於機敏的這樣的一個設施設備按照採購法規定是可以做採購 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2892.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2921.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
好 雖然它是經過內政部移民署所通過審核的一個合法入境那它活動的範圍也在我們相關規範的特定工區裡面雖然您也說它不涉及基民以及相關的資安所造成的疑慮但是它終究是國家基礎建設的重要的採購跟施工的一個管理這不是一般的民間的商業行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2922.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2946.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
還是要提高警覺來做處理那尤其是中共他持續強化他們的黨組織對於他們企業的實質控制這個你也應該清楚其實他內涵的國安隱憂應該要受到更嚴格的一個檢視那其實我們看2021年中國48.3%的民間企業 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2952.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2954.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
都設有中國共產黨的 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2957.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2985.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
黨組織那他們前500大的企業有92%都設有黨組織這樣的一個嚴密的一個管制那中國的網路安全法跟國家情報法都明確的規定中國的企業跟公民都有為他們國家情報工作提供協助以及數據的收集的這樣的一個義務 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
2986.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3000.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
那鐵道局認為說這只是一般的工程技術交流的定力來處理這一次的事件我是不能接受因為你們嚴重的低估了新型態的國安風險來讓市長說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3003.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3031.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
跟委員報告這個確實剛剛提到他是依照程序去做一個申請那他活動會大概就在A14的那個天花那個工區不過剛剛委員所提到沒有錯現在目前中國大陸對我們的這些的一些算是滲透之類的我想我們不能輕誤以後這個部分我想我們會更用更嚴謹的態度來面對這個我想我們後續會來再要求鐵道局在工地上要再做一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3032.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3052.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
市長跟局長我再次的提醒交通部對於相關鐵道工程尤其是林軌工程的安全管理跟督導是最重要的責任我們已經發生過很嚴重造成重大傷亡社會永久傷痛的這樣的一個軌道事件那這一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3053.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3074.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
在苗栗竹蘭之間的這樣的一個橋樑上面所造成的怪手番戶這不是小事這除了對國人的上班上學日常生活造成重大的延誤之外也顯示我們的軌道安全真的是還有很大改進的空間這個不能再出狀況好 謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3078.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3087.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
好謝謝李昆哲委員謝謝我們次長謝謝局長我們稍後在侯孟凱委員資訊完結之後我們來處理臨時提案我們接下來請侯孟凱委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3099.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3128.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
好 主席謝謝不過主席我先這個程序發言建議因為主席這個腳真的有點受傷我們是不是請示也讓大家知道主席是不是今天就不要再站了啦你就坐下來啦那也讓大家知道是說他不是不尊重各位而是因為確實主席他這個右腳腳有受傷啦所以我想說心疼也這個尊重好 請坐啦請坐好 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3130.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3132.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
來 我們再請武次長好 請武次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3140.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3162.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
好 來 市長剛剛那個昆城委員關心也是本席所重視就是說今天早上台鐵苗栗到竹南現在有延誤單線通車我想兩個部分因為現在新聞看到還是有點混亂您剛剛講是說12點以前會恢復通車像我剛剛看到有新聞以及台鐵這邊講是說預計上午9點就恢復正常通車9點跟12點還差3個小時啊到底 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3168.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3189.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
哪一個比較準我跟委員報告應該還沒有因為他那個繼續要去釣沒那麼容易他正好就在西征線上西征要釣對這個整個要釣離因為他不是在車站區他在站間所以釣離沒那麼容易旁邊沒有道路沒錯所以這部分應該我理解因為現場畫面也出來了這個因為我沒有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3190.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3214.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
同時間秀在上面但是大家應該也都看到現場畫面他其實在橋上的這個怪手翻覆而且翻覆的有點嚴重啊他是整個這樣子傾斜好那另外還有講到也是新聞報導馬上寫說連桃園站都貼出公告列車也受影響所以其實這個影響範圍不是只有竹南苗栗到竹南喔可能是更往 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3215.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3229.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
北上南下都有受到影響會有一些低沿的效應剛講會低沿的效應越遠當然到後面影響會越小那主要是在苗栗竹蘭間這個部分是西正線不能通再過去當然就通但是因為這邊的影響會往那邊一直擴散掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3231.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3253.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
所以本席再一次具體建議因為我們一個月前也才發生高鐵延誤的事件當時我就有說不管高鐵台鐵都是我們很重要的大眾運輸那最重要的是即時的資訊清楚確認影響的範圍有多廣以及到底什麼時間點可以完成一定要讓民眾有最清楚的了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3254.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3276.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
我們寧可料敵從寬因為如果說像剛剛我看到的上午9點就恢復正常通車那很顯然的這是過於樂觀的講法那可能對於譬如說早上11點12點他買對號座的車輛的民眾他也許覺得說早上9點就會恢復通車了沒想到他到了現場之後才發覺不是這麼一回事延誤的更久 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3277.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3301.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
所以未來這個資訊的掌握統一的發布以及拜託媒體朋友傳遞最正確的訊息讓民眾知道這一點應該要更加強是 謝偉的提示我想剛剛提到資訊的正確及時我想這是我們後面會努力好 那等一下是不是也請次長要責成我們相關單位趕快跟台鐵公司再聯繫一下到底什麼時間點修復完畢 搶售完畢那還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3303.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3322.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
這件事情完了之後我也拜託次長是不是能夠做一個專案的檢討很顯然的您剛講是說這是一個例行的修繕的一個工程但用怪手然後怪手到時候重心不穩而導致翻覆那就代表說施工有問題啊代表說這個工法是有問題的 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3325.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3341.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
來我跟委員報告因為他剛講旁邊沒有道路所以變成他只能在軌道上去做那因為他用樹木樹木一定要做修剪不然那個樹木未來哪一天他的長得太大影響到電車線其實就影響到路線市長我覺得這個部分就請 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3342.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3362.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
交通部這邊是不是針對這個事件來做一個檢討看有沒有其他更好妥善的方式因為這個是凌晨發生的事影響比較少然後也沒有車安問題沒有人員傷亡但我們不希望這樣的事情再發生好不好那這樣子一個月內你們做個檢討針對這個事件那看有沒有更好的一個改善方法好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3363.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3389.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
好來再來也是我們這個鐵道基金相關因為有跟台鐵有跟高鐵都有相關那台鐵公司的金雞母台北車站一個月過去了我們一個多月前就在討論是說那個招標那到底是誰得標誰什麼我再一次強調台鐵公司今天有九家公司願意來招標來營運這個商場我是樂觀其成因為代表說大家對於台鐵 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3390.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3406.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
台北車站這個門面是有信心的大家也想經營更好但是美中部族就是發生了一個憾事就是有提前洩露然後台鐵給我們的回覆現在我看到一個月前跟我們回覆說內部調查完畢找不到內鬼是誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3407.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3428.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
所以報法務部廉政署請外部力量來調查那我請教一個月過去了到底找到這個洩密的管道了嗎目前還在 據我了解應該目前還在還在了解這個洩密的相當相關的管道啦是 還在了解還是找不到現在目前還沒有找到 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3429.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3453.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
這看起來已經一個月過去了其實應該嚴格講起來算兩個月那台鐵公司也跟我們講是說持續要運作那台北車站的服務不能中斷這也是我們大家都共同關心的不要因為你的到底是接下來的房客是誰誰來經營而造成說旅客消費者的權益受損但到目前為止是沒有辦法找到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3454.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3477.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
那這就變羅生門啦這下面的問題目前還在查啦那剛剛提到整個台北車站目前因為還沒有一個施政嘛所以當然依照程序繼續往下走我想這個服務台鐵公司在台北車站的這樣的服務我想不會中斷都不會中斷不會中斷是我們共同的要求嘛對不對交通部也要要求台鐵公司絕對不能 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3478.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3484.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
中斷服務而讓旅客的權益受損但是市長您認為有信心找得到這個洩密的來源嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3485.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3512.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
還是就無疾而終了再過一個月沒有人關心了那這件事情就穿過水無痕了因為台北公司內部其實花了很多時間去查是確實是目前是沒查到所以才想說會藉由外力聯證署那邊來協助看看那這個我們就看一下我們就等著看那個聯證署那邊的他們查的情況是怎麼樣有沒有做啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3514.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3538.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
我是很希望是我們每一件事情都是做真的不是說敷衍了事不是 這剛剛跟次長您比較沒有那麼直接關係因為畢竟是台鐵公司內部的一個狀況但是我們身為上級主管機關 督導機關我們還是要善盡督導主管之責啦是我只是真的很希望是說不要每一次事情都是風頭上大家關心那風頭過了好像現在普遍蔓延一個氣氛 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3539.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3560.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
撐一撐嘛 風頭過了沒有人關心了 啊這件事情也就這樣了我覺得這樣不好啦來最後 市長那個鐵道局局長也一起上來好不好 來我們淡江大橋5月12號通車大家也都很歡迎 期待那也就講到了 現在淡海 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3561.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3587.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
交通三建淡江大橋我們現在已經在中央地方共同努力完成了淡北聯外道路現在也在興建了還有最重要一個拼圖就是淡海輕軌藍海線二期那這已經呈報了十多次了我就不再贅述之前的狀況那最新新北市政府也已經在回呈報給我們鐵道局鐵道局目前是說都已經審核完畢對不對來說明一下我們現在進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3590.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3597.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
跟我們報告那目前我們已經最新就是協助完成這個初餐的這個相關審查的程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3598.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3627.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
好 那現在進度是什麼報行政院了還沒有還沒有報行政院因為行政院當初的這個退回來的要求是希望能夠就淡海二期的這個修正計畫先行核定之後再來報巴黎的這樣的一個輕軌不是 我現在講的是淡海輕軌 藍海先二期你講的是巴黎輕軌巴黎輕軌行政院的要求是希望我現在在問的是淡海輕軌 藍海先二期報行政院了沒已經報行政院了是嗎6月1號 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3629.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3642.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
我還想說兩天前跟我講說報行政院的人不也是你嗎你怎麼會現在跟我講說還沒報行政院報了嘛6月1號已經報行政院了嘛那淡海青鬼 南海縣二期你們的審查意見是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3643.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3672.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
你們報行政院你們的審查一定有你們的主觀認定嘛你們認定這個大海清鬼、賴海仙惡棋這一次新北市政府報過來成不成熟完不完整了解我們的審查就是經過沒有意見才會送到院裡面是沒有意見就代表說新北市政府這一次報出來的計畫是完整的確實的有回答過去我們所提出來的問題並且也已經補齊了問題解方所以認為是如果說現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3674.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3683.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
通過的話馬上可以實行而且他是確實可行的對不對是的 當然等待行政院最後的審議好 那行政院這個就要拜託次長了 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3685.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3703.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
市長淡水輪已經期待太久了那南海線二旗其實距離不長我簡單科普一下大家也都最近都去這個淡水然後淡江大橋看嘛南海線二旗最重要就是補足最後一里路因為現在輕軌也已經綠山線南海線都已經在營運綠山線整個繞這個山區南海線現在是 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3708.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3724.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
只有三站但我們最重要的南海線二期是從淡水捷運站連接沿著金色水岸連接到漁人碼頭如果說未來這一段補期的話整個淡海輕軌它就變成是一個circle |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3724.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3750.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
它就變是一個可以這個循環的那到時候民眾就可以從淡水紅樹林捷運站坐綠山線繞到漁人碼頭再坐南海線二旗再回來淡水捷運站這樣整個也跟淡水線的捷運都做一個完整的串聯我想這也對於整個捷運路網是最好的不管是運輸經濟以及整個規模都是最好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3751.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3774.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
好 那現在既然鐵道局專業的意見都認為說新北市政府補齊了次長能不能也幫幫忙 也跟行政院這邊再督促一下不要再卡了 趕快核定吧我跟委員報告 其實當海輕軌當時大概有一個問題就是他那個路線跟當地的商家有一些不一樣的看法那個早就解決了 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3775.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3788.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
所以這一次是因為他們已經有補期補充說他們跟當地的溝通的結果所以我們看看既然他已經溝通了其實溝通了5年然後這個也本來都已經溝通完畢但是少數人的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3789.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3806.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
有意見尊重都好事但現在新北市府都已經完成了所以送鐵道局鐵道局才會核備也認為說可以了才往行政院送嘛那現在其實就是等行政院要不要趕快核定因為最專業的鐵道局都已經認為說沒有問題了那就已經不是專業的問題了 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3808.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3822.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
那就不要有政治因素在裡面 競訴核定趕快來催促一下看行政院這邊能不能趕快來加速 簽核公文這樣可以嗎好 這我們來努力好 我們一起努力 謝謝謝謝黃孟凱委員 謝謝楊局長 議事長好 現在先處理一下臨時提案 請議事人員一併宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3830.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3837.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
臨時提案一鑒於我國擁有高達1440萬輛機車但機車與道路設計上之定位卻長期不明近期諸多道路工程屢屢引發實體分隔機車道過窄之爭議凸顯出現行機車安全規範長期被忽視的結構性問題原此要求交通部應責成相關單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3852.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3854.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
好請問各位委員及行政單位有沒有補充意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3882.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3909.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
好 新單位感謝趙偉的提案 本案可不可以容許我們稍微做一點文字修改那就是在倒數第二行 實證研究這邊可以改成評估報告然後再傾於三個月 傾於一個月內改成三個月那最後在專案報告這邊改成書面報告好 就修正通過謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3915.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
3935.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
民事提案已經處理完畢那如果委員對上述提案補簽可以列入紀錄並刊登公報我們現在繼續請陳雪生委員發言好謝謝周委是不是請伍次長好我們請伍次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
3941.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
3945.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
市長,鐵路產業研發檢測發展計畫,有補助督促產業、學界、研究機構去研發,目前進度落後有什麼原因? |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
3961.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
3987.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
目前進度上應該執行還好剛剛主要是幾個包括我們的技術一些的研發這些我們都持續在推動我想這部分應該沒有什麼大問題你是不是國內因為鐵道檢測環境跟法規他在初創的階段所以有很多必須要去那你現在執行進度是零 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
3990.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4016.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
其實事實上有在執行,應該是我們計價的問題我們合約的計價的問題,但是這個工作現在進行是順利的進行順利?進度是零,你怎麼順利?應該是預算執行你沒有進度啊?你說明一下進度是零啊?沒有進度啊?你怎麼說工作順利?非常不順利啊?拿麥克風來 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4020.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4031.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
因為之前上一年度還沒有執行完,我們先用上一年度的先把它處理上一年度的喔?那你今年度預算是不要變啦? |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4032.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4060.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
是有變啦你上年度還沒執行完啊你前年度執行完畢了吧那個各位報告齁因為去年度的預算沒有完全執行完所以我們今年先執行上一年度的剩餘預算但是這個工作目前已經全面展開所以這個今年度的預算還是甘請委員給我們支持好好你請回高雄高雄屏東站區段徵收 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4062.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4082.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
他配合高鐵延伸屏東的計畫他採用高雄的模式,高雄什麼模式?所謂高雄方案是指說高鐵未來延伸到屏東的路線經由高雄車站,也就是現在的台鐵高雄火車站之後再延伸到屏東 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4084.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4111.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
這個計畫還在持續的進行嗎現在在進行綜合規劃跟環評作業當中屏東吼是的不是叫停了沒有沒有叫停沒有好好好那楊局長你請回沒關係是縣委市長今天我問你兩個問題是因為部長沒有來剛才早上那個誰孟凱偉講到淡江大橋我上次在總質詢提到馬祖大橋 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4114.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4137.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
你們交通部很奇怪,一直來文啊說縣政府要負擔比例多少你看縣政府能夠負擔比例多少前面的方案沒有這個問題啊綜合規劃裡面一直沒有這個問題啊那最近呢反正踢皮球推來推去推來推去推得差不多了來講錢的問題了現在跟錢什麼關係啊我跟你講個笑話 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4143.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4168.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
財化法修了以後金門多了一百多億澎湖多了四五十億我們離島有三個金門、馬祖、澎湖金門多一百多億我還跟陳玉珍委員講你馬上當縣長了你這樣吵吵鬧鬧你將來沒錢用他說我多了一百多億我酒廠再加油一下我錢夠用了所以他也不怕你誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4172.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4190.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
那澎湖養委員是尊稱我為大哥啦所以馬祖雄錢就多一點也沒關係問題他這次分了不少錢所以他們也沒吵那我們是什麼財化法少了一千萬少了一千萬財政部 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4192.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4217.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
這部長還蠻佛心的補了一千萬給我那就大平嘛對不對大平那我沒有多一個錢啊好現在中央來一個怪招這什麼招勒所有的一般補助款我不給你了你從那個財務法新的財務法多出來的錢你去自己模補去運用啦那我沒有多出來的錢啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4220.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4247.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
那我那邊主要靠的是交通部所以我一直在交通委員會也就是這個原因那你交通部所有的錢都你們自己去檢討財化法裡面錢給你們了財化法沒有給我錢啊那所以這怎麼辦呢我也跟部長也在那邊講了很多次那你這個馬祖大橋講了差不多八九年七八年了你預算到底是編還是不編啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4248.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4254.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
是不是,我刪減你們交通部預算,48億多啦我們就號稱50億好了那你說我這個錢要把你們刪50億還是不刪50億你現在一點誠意都沒有啊然後那個陳次長說他主持一個會議一推就推來了一推256說縣政府綜合計畫裡面沒有講清楚,沒有寫清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4278.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4303.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
那我就提議啦,把縣長、議長這些相關人員通通抓到你交通部來好不好你說什麼就什麼,你說怎樣就怎樣,可以了吧我們也是待執行而已,這個大橋主要的單位還是你們現在我們是待執行,因為比較偏遠那你現在離島偏鄉也照顧了,離島也照顧了 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4306.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4321.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
馬祖還少了一千萬,你這樣撥不進去,這個公平嗎?這個錢到底,我今年不講了,明年你們預算,你們什麼態度? |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4323.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4348.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
我想跟委員報告一個計畫當然要從可行性中規然後才有建設計畫大概這整個程序來走那我理解的這應該是公路局公路局他陳局長林副山林局長林局長他也很積極我記得上次委員要求說由他親自來主持我記得啦他是無奈不是積極他很無奈 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4351.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4378.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
我想應該不會無奈啦,我想這部分他應該是他也沒有獲得授權啦他也積極在處理啦,我想這部分我回去再跟那個林區長請他再部長也沒有獲得授權部長也跟我講得很清楚他說委員你看我像是不給你錢的人嗎是不是這個層次應該是在總統跟院長那我說你們要提啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4379.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4403.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
你不提醒他,他們事情那麼多,怎麼會記得我們?馬祖就鳥蛋一顆,在總執行前夕,周院長好不容易跑到馬祖去了一趟,沒人去沒人管所以次長回去跟部長再轉告一下,不是你的問題趕快開會啊,陳次長、彥博次長你要開會啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4408.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4432.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
到現在你看總資訊下來已經又一個月了這件事有關民航局的IMASIMAS就是攔阻的那個那個一個蠻貴的預算有了錢也有了計畫也有了飆不出去沒有人來飆 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4434.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4459.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
這個再加油一下好不好我們再檢討一下預算看了解真正原因是什麼流標因為我們的跑道很短然後側風很強這個不怕遺忘我們只怕萬一有個攔截網對我們整個非常的安全因為我們的飛機不是我們的機場不是一個非常標準安全的機場所以這個對我們來講非常重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4460.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4471.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
好不好,以上兩點,雖然不是你的業務啊不是理業館的,但是幫我轉一下好不好,謝謝,好,謝謝趙偉,謝謝好,謝謝陳以生委員,謝謝我們次長接下來請林俊憲、趙偉發言好,感謝主席,本身邀請我們交通部五次長好,請五次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4494.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4497.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
委員好市長我今天跟你討論這個交通的標線問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4502.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4525.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
這個其實跟民眾都很相關其實你們交通部管的大建設以外最重要的民生議題民眾每一天都會遇到行的問題交通部如果把相關的行的事情尤其是行人也好車輛也好這個事情其實都是大事你看一個新聞這我們台南仁德的太子路還有花那個曹劃線 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4527.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4554.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
結果一天檢舉一百多件原來我才知道這個潮化線連壓過去都不行潮化線你看得到齁市長我這個照片前面是網狀線後面那個斜線就是潮化線潮化線竟然你如果只要一個輪子壓過去都不行它定義是不是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4556.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4575.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
你不知道嗎我理解也是這樣子剛講曹阿憲主要是剛講你車輛的一個地方他那個檢舉這一天一百多件檢舉你只要輪子壓上去他就檢舉你檢查就馬上開單那到底曹阿憲對車輛是完全禁止連壓到都不行嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4577.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4601.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
現在是這樣 警方單位是這樣處理我舉這個案子當例子 我們交通號誌標籤有規定法律規定是這樣 我們交通標誌號誌的設置規則曹劃線是禁止跨越那跨越算什麼 跨越的動作什麼叫跨越 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4602.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4609.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
四樓怎麼都高過叫跨越那如果只有一個輪子插邊壓過去算跨越嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4610.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4634.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
壓到線應該就算跨越市長這麼講那我們的如果處理它壓到像你講的一路連絡會告到這個潮汗線它就開單它開單就是按照道路交通管理處罰條例它開的都是用這一條60條的第二項第三款不遵守道路交通標誌標線號誌這一條最廣泛它開端都開這條 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4637.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4648.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
後來有民眾不服啦既然是跨越應該是車輛都壓過去才叫跨越嘛你們現在都照這樣法一個輪子壓到都不行 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4661.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4683.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
我舉一個案例 花蓮的幻影棚花蓮地方法院在2016年有一個行政訴訟的這個民眾不服他說我草化縣我只有一個輪子壓過去而已結果就給我開單後來法院怎麼判斷 你看法官的意見法官說雖然這台車的左側的車輛都有壓到 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4688.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4713.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
但是車輛有四分之三都留在原車道所以沒有 如果你要達到什麼叫跨越你看你這個交通號誌啊定到好像我們在討論中文啊像你上國文課一樣那法官認為說啊他四分之三的車輛還在原車道他只有兩個輪子稍微壓到這樣不算跨越所以判決啦 這個原處問裁測啦 不能改變啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4716.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4745.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
這跟你們認知又不一樣來 照說潮汗線要怎麼處理啊到底輪子能不能壓到啊我來舉個例子啦我們來再探討一下啦為什麼要設潮汗線根據我們的交通號誌設計的規則說我們現在要為潮汗線就是希望啊引導車輛遵循就它行駛在正確的地方正確的方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4748.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4773.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
我們來看日本我給你舉一個例子日本的潮汗線它叫導流帶日本的車子一般是可以行駛在潮汗線上面除非明定禁止像我給你看那三個小圖的中間綠路禁止你不可以進去而且它潮汗線它用黃線給它標起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4776.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4778.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
這樣這種的潮汗線 車輛不可以進入否則其他的潮汗線是導流帶那我們台灣 因為我們的號誌 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4792.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4815.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
沒有很一定的標準啦所以地方政府劃的有些路況又不一樣像台南仁德那個為什麼一天可以撿起百幾個因為潮汗縣那麼寬那麼肥 你有沒有看到潮汗縣尾巴範圍那麼廣泛開車一不小心就會壓到 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4817.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4822.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
剛好有位我們熱心的檢舉達人,一天在那裡檢舉百個,搞到上了新聞 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4829.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4855.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
市長跟委員報告我想剛以這個案例來講台南太子路這部分剛才也提到桃花卸是為引導車輛往正確的方向走那這個部分我想我們再請我們的那個路安司再跟地方政府再協調一下他這個劃的範圍是不是可以再稍微做一點修正因為確實這樣看起來這邊還是很大不一定要劃到 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4856.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4879.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
不一定要畫到那個範圍畫那麼廣 也許這可以有我們再找他們再討論一下重點就是說 那你所謂的跨越的定義啦這個我希望我們交通部要跟警政單位你們大家要協調好了剛剛人頭那個案子一天一百多件是搞到民怨到後來市政府下令警方暫停開罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4882.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4907.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
實際上大多數都不用法如果按照法院的判例你所謂的跨越你大概基本上到底要多少車身進去才算跨越我這個你要跟警方單位大家做一個討論要不然一直檢舉檢舉 交通委員會當然可以檢舉但是這個檢舉也是要有一定的界限 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4909.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4921.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
否則你造成很多民眾不滿嘛一個輪子壓到你也開罰 欸一罰就高八塊耶 對不對那你一天就罰一百多個 哇 建屋又沒戲啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4923.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4944.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
這是跟我們報告這部分跨越潮汗腺所謂的跨越的標準我們再找那個地方還有檢診單位我們再來做一個檢討還有潮汗腺我們是不是也考量有些地方確實不能開上去但有些地方你可以作為一個導流帶像日本日本的潮汗腺它就有分 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4947.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4973.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
除非他很明定 規定你車輛不能開進去你像隔鎖公路的潮發線就不能進去還是說有設立禁止進入的那個標誌那你地上用顏色可以區分啊否則潮發線只是提醒用路人開車的 通常是開車 騎車的人你每次給他封用 車道有一些變寬變窄有一些你要注意的用意不是在處罰他啦你也用嘻嘻啦 吃下去怎麼過就不行 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4975.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5003.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
好不好你除非是很很很很危險像高速公路像會影響其他車輛譬如說左右兩側車道會有可能你開下去會造成的危險那不然應該像日本一樣把它定定為一種像導流帶的這種概念你只是希望車輛要注意要往前進去的方向開基本上通常都車道寬窄會有變化的地方那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5005.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5026.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
有必要搞到民怨沸騰我們定這樣只是目的在行車安全不在於處罰所以你不要讓民眾誤被一不小心被罰這個通常就會民眾當然就會不服氣好不好好謝謝市長謝謝主席好謝謝局長趙偉謝謝市長跟謝謝市長接下來我們請徐富奎委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5044.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5069.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
謝主席 有請我們交通部五次長請到局長 楊局長市長早 局長早市長 第一張的照片您看一下您知道這個地方是哪裡嗎我們屏東火車站有沒有看到我們的鄉親為什麼在火車站裡面還要撐傘 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5072.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5086.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
我想這個是過去十幾年我們一直在反映的一個問題這個最近這個外面下大雨火車站裡面也在下小雨那包含我自己這兩天在坐火車我都發現這個當然我們的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5089.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5117.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
過去這個我們火車站的這個結構上面因為已經也使用了很多年那當然有一些的狀況那造成一個車站漏水的一個嚴重的一個現象那這幾天我們在這個不管是新聞也好或是媒體也好也有許多的鄉親他們不是責怪啦他們是覺得說為什麼我們這個一座那麼美輪美化的一個車站竟然到目前為止還會出現這樣的一個狀況那我想包含楊局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5118.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5142.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
我也多次在委員會還有諮詢我們台鐵的董事長總經理我想這個案子我們當然我們已經編列4000多萬要來重新發報來做整理但是市長你看一下他們的時程我們目前掌握到的這個案子在今年6月1號完成基本設計審查先進行細部設計的作業要到明年的3月完成工程決標 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5143.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5168.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
那因為又考量到夜間的一個施工的方式進行有考量到列車的營運這些相關的狀況要到117年底完工市長我們2028年之前我們屏東人還要忍受這個有漏水的車站嗎市長這個要怎麼解決市長我想跟委員報告我想這個部分剛剛提到預算應該是大概7300萬有台鐵公司現在在辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5171.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5186.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
那現在基本設計已經完成了那來年底要設計可以完成明年應該可以來進行招標那就中間比較困難是因為它是一個營運站所以變成白天的時候沒辦法去做一定要晚上才能做所以相對會比較時間比較耗時一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5188.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5207.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
我想這部分我會再找台鐵再談一下有沒有辦法把這個時間這樣再縮短包括譬如說我們增加一些工班這種方式來把這個工時把這個工期把它縮短這我想我再找台鐵來說至少我還是要提醒一下依目前屏東火車站的運量 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5208.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5232.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
比高雄市火車站還多一年一天有兩萬多人次進出這麼多人在進出那我們現在既然碰到這個問題我想這兩年多我都在委員會在追蹤這個問題也期盼我們台鐵公司加快速度所以我想當然行政程序有行政程序的一些問題但是我想這個時程拖到117年我想真的屏東人很心酸啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5233.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5249.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
那尤其過去我們這個這麼相信我們這個大眾運輸的一個處理的一個能力但是我們面對這樣的一個狀況甚至我自己我也是常常在坐火車這兩天看到的我們不是用水桶在截水就是把一些警示 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5250.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5264.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
警示牌放在那裡我想這樣子的狀況真的沒有辦法這也不是一個我們大有為的政府應該要做的一個事情是不是你交通部可以督促一下加快速度好這個我再找那個台鐵公司再希望能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5266.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5286.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
把這工期縮短,剛提到我們加派一些工班的方式來進行因為真的是只能晚上,白天大概沒辦法去做但是我想只要有漏水的狀況的時候,應該要有安全因為很多長輩、老人家、很多小孩子,我們怕滑倒、怕摔倒怎麼樣加強這個安全維護的部分應該要再努力一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5288.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5302.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
那第二個問題我想針對我們前幾天我們看到交通部有提到未來這個要預告修法未來考量到評價到事故是台鐵營運的高危險因子所以未來不會再興建鐵路評價到楊局長這個是OK的新聞嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5307.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5318.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
這個是我們現在在預告中的一個法令修正案好 那所以我們未來也要赤字市議員在全台313個地方評價到設置這個障礙物的偵測系統後續還有84個要安裝預計在2031年那我想目前我們台灣有總共有415處的評價到那其中屏東就有22座那我想這個議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5330.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5356.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
我想我從當立委到現在我也一直有在跟我們鐵道局來反映當然感謝我們交通部跟鐵道局我想我們未來我們當然是努力這個訪流大平台這個計畫但是從訪流大平台的計畫之後我們屏東縣還是有許多的這個平交道那這個平交道不是只有發生交通事故甚至很多淹水的問題都是因為由這個平交道造成所以我想怎麼樣去 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5357.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5372.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
逐步的怎麼樣去解決這樣的一個平交道的一個退場的一個機制甚至針對這個高風險的一個平交道是不是應該要有做怎麼樣一個防範一個移除的一個計畫次長能不能做一個比較正面的一個答覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5373.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5399.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
我想我跟委員報告剛提到的預告主要是因為平沙道當然畢竟就是算是一個比較危險的一個地方嘛那其實改善平沙道大概有幾種手法一種就是從號誌裡面連鎖裡面去做處理第二個就是從公路立體化就是他誇言說用公路立體化這當然是一種手段之一它成本相較起來會比剛講我們的鐵路立體化還要再便宜一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5400.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5427.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
那鐵路醫療是最後的因為他剛剛除了貧道道路的問題以外另外其實他還針對於都市的一個發展是有比較大的一個幫助所以這部分後續我們剛剛講剛剛提到那個訪寮那個地方容易淹水這些我想我們在我們現在會提的一個那個計劃應該是屏東縣政府有提這部分我想我們會再全力來協助屏東縣政府來做這部分的一個搞定 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5428.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5446.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
因為反而剛好有兩個一個龍山一個中山兩個拼交道對就是我們的淹水熱點對那也是交通事故最危險的地方也是造成這個這個通行特別為了單輝車要等很久的時間我想這有很多的問題都會發生啦所以次長跟部長我們一起要來努力啦就這樣好 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5448.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5463.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
那第三個這個我想這幾天的一個新聞台鐵有統計一個這個最熱冷門車站的排行榜那其中這個全台灣的這個最荒涼的車站由我們屏東縣仿山的這個內施站參念冠軍這個站 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5465.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5487.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
平均這個一天四個班次到站有一名的旅客當然我想這個交通運輸大眾運輸我想這個必須有他存在的一個價值但是我想市長我們在日本我們也看到這個日本他改造了這個無人車站跟這個閒置的民宅他可以發展一個深度的旅遊活化一個地方那 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5488.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5503.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
這個螢幕上面你看到這個就是我們有從網路上看到youtuber一位叫做孫女她拍過很多台鐵冷門車站的一個旅遊影片這個站就是我們林邊的政安站我想非常非常的漂亮 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5506.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5532.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
觀看的人次也高達67萬次那在還沒有這個我們整個高價化之前未來針對這樣的冷門車站我們是不是應該要有火化的一個策略甚至結合我們地方政府跟我們這個有想要創業的年輕人或是一些地方創生的團隊應該能不能有一戰一特色的一個規劃變成一個觀光文化旅遊的一個熱點交通部能不能來協助這個案子所以我想跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5534.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5551.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
剛提到台北幾個車站有當然比較熱門就像剛剛講的屏東車站一天兩萬多人像地方大概一天大概幾個個位數但是我想比較偏遠的地方我想它還是有它的運輸的基本功能所以這部分我們還是一定要維持 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5552.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5568.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
那至於剛剛講這是一個交通的部分另外一個我覺得針對比較剛剛所謂的冷門的車站的部分我想我們也會提到跟觀光結合包括地方創生也許辦一些活動讓這邊成為一個特色其實那幾個地方啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5568.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5598.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
在當地都非常有它的特色在比如說仿山也好或是內施過去其實也很多人過去在那邊去打卡我們結合當地的地方政府的不管是它的公路的觀光的一個接駁之類的我想這部分是我們未來會再請台鐵公司來進行跟地方政府來做一個研議讓它成為是一個觀光的景點也是一個地方文創的一個地方我想這是我們來努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5598.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5614.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
因為我知道台鐵公司化之後他們有在努力做一些資產的處分甚至一些火化但是他們不能只挑熱門的地方老的地方去開發弄得漂漂亮亮卻忽略了整個軌道的經濟發展的均衡性 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5617.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5636.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
我想這個地方應該局長有很清楚這個包含這個我們的這個內施也好仿生車站站在上面看到我們這個海岸線非常非常漂亮我覺得怎麼樣去行銷怎麼樣去包裝怎麼樣去結合地方的一個特色把地方的部落經濟帶進來我覺得這個才能夠讓這個永續發展才能夠落實啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5641.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5661.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
這年輕人在那裡做什麼 結果一天沒幾個人來他也賺不了錢 他也太做不下去啦所以怎麼樣這個到時候怎麼樣這個結合我們的縣政府或是我們的一些地方創生團隊最重要就是交通部跟台鐵公司一定要有相關的行銷配套的一個措施大家一起來收驚這個才能夠讓這個冷門的車站變成火化熱門的這個景點啦我想這應該要來努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5668.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5687.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
這個謝謝委員的提示,我想我們會後續操作方面來進行,剛剛講車站的觀光的功能,文創的這些特色,地方特色部分把它放進來。因為我想我們都有去過日本,它的軌道經濟周邊也是有的沒人,但是它怎麼樣去帶動把地方文化、地方特色結合進來,讓人家看得到經營,大家看得到永續經營。 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5688.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5703.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
真的像仿生跟那個內事務都去過那個景真的是很漂亮確實啊所以應該是有可以發展深入旅遊的一個條件是好一起來努力謝謝是好謝謝委員好謝謝徐務奎委員謝謝次長謝謝局長我們現在請陳清榮委員發言陳清榮陳兄委員不在現在請許智傑委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5727.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5754.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
主席 大家好 我們請那個鐵道局長好 我們請楊振軍局長委員好那個 次長你坐著聽就好了我那個剛剛徐富奎提到的那今天台鐵沒來我在想到其實台鐵有一個那個鐵道祕境 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5755.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5772.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
跟六都風法可以去思考啦那鐵道秘境之後其實很多的邊緣的地方那個其實可以結合觀光用秘境觀光的方式去思考所以這個再請次長也跟台鐵再討論一下好 謝謝好 那我們針對這個台鐵還有一件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5782.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5803.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
台鐵楠梓市長還是請你看好不好不好意思不好意思本來想讓你休息一下委員你好這個我們一直在要求台鐵台積電站那現在就是台鐵楠梓園區站 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5805.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5828.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
那現在的進度市長了解嗎?現在是 剛好市政府現在在辦理啦 可能性那剛之前大概有上次去考察的時候我們特別提到說這個站是一定要設啦當然這個站名到時候我們會再跟那個地方政府大家再協調一下用什麼樣的站名會比較適合啦但是這個站我想我們是一定會設啦這個方向是一定會設沒問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5830.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5837.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
那現在進度到哪裡先是高雄市政府現在辦理它的可行性市政府在辦可行性評估是 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5839.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5866.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
好這個我們一再要求希望交通部能夠格外重視啦就是這個將來是科技經濟魅力華裔的城市嘛那科技經濟我們台積電這個這麼重要的一個產業跟相對的供應鏈所以這個我想重要性不在言下啦所以希望說交通部跟鐵道局這個都會把它仔細的來守住那另外那個男子百慕達 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5868.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5890.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
那邊的規劃現在進度怎麼樣蘭子百慕塔那邊包括公路啦包括那個機車道啦如果是講的是鐵路立體化的鐵路立體化都在那一個區塊那應該是目前應該是地方政府他在提可行性 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5891.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5919.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
可能性對 可能性那個鐵路理由的話大概是由地方提上來然後後面審查沒問題以後進到中規的階段才會由鐵道局來進行規劃那現在這幾個應該都是還在所了解對都還沒提出來應該是在那個高雄市政府那邊在做可能性的我想市政府評估這個當然就是我們也希望說鐵道局這邊可以一起來思考嘛因為這個整體的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5921.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5944.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
有時候地方跟中央的觀念如果沒有先溝通好有時候只是一方在做恐怕不見得會相當的配合所以也希望說鐵道局都可以多跟市政府溝通輔導看怎麼做最好另外就是我們鳳山的鐵路地下化 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5947.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5963.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
跟高鐵在延伸高雄車站到屏東車站那中間那一個就是未來的高鐵跟台鐵車站有共構的可能這個部分鐵道局規劃現在狀況如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5967.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5995.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
跟委員報告現在是高雄市政府也在同步進行這個路段的鐵路地下化的可行性研究評估當中那我們現在正在進行高鐵的綜合規劃那我們雙方有開過工作會議就這個可能的這些結構形式跟未來的規劃做進一步的討論我想可能也要次長跟交通部多支持我們現在台鐵地下化 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5997.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6026.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
本來在京武路就上來了那其實是10年前本來那個時候可能就封鎖了但是我那10年前就要求說他那個地方要保留未來可以出來的可能預留機制對所以10年前他就預留一個轉接頭所以今天可以得以延伸也是我們10年前的要求所以才有辦法達成今天想要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6027.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6048.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
目標那同樣的道理其實我就在講說我們的高鐵站跟鳳山站本來我是希望能夠在同一個地方共購當然就是說以前設計的月台也不符合然後又要鑽過捷運黃線的地下上來要40公尺 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6049.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6078.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
然後呢又會拆到大樓所以有諸多的考量所以其實風山車站沒有上來我是覺得心裡是很痛啦但是呢就很務實的工程觀點沒有辦法達到但是我們也要想說以後有這個機會跟可能嘛所以就是再往東再延伸是不是就在做鐵路地下化台鐵地下化的時候跟我們高鐵要往 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6079.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6097.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
屏東的方向的時候可以有一個共構的機會這個部分交通部支持嗎我想我們這個後面啦鐵道局這部分會再持續來評估啦我想有他的需求性我想我們交通部一定會全力來支持我想未來我們大寮到 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6099.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6125.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
林園的捷運我們應該也會做所以整個路網其實我一直看到台北新北的捷運的路網事實上我就覺得說我們高雄一樣要想很遠嘛那當然交通部跟鐵道局都很幫忙我們現在岡山路竹延伸線也在做然後呢林園小港林園延伸線也在做那未來有機會接到 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6126.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6141.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
台南跟屏東的機會我們當然也會盡量去做那樣子的努力嘛然後到臨遠的時候 臨遠要接到大寮未來也是個可行的方案因為高雄關 特別說 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6142.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6159.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
在以前當然一定是先重視舊高雄市嘛我們舊高雄縣的建設需要比較遠當然也比較沒有像現在高雄市那麼熱絡但是未來我想這個一定是下期在進步慢慢的會倒過啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6159.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6177.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
所以你看先是合併之後從我們高雄市本來的人口密集到目前其實原高雄縣人口增加最多的是仁武跟鳳山那鳳山的西區他們說現在已經飽和了所以就往鳳山的東區在發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6178.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6207.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
那將來鳳山東區發展再飽和會再往大寮去發展所以這個眼光我覺得我們必須要去考慮到所以這個未來高鐵跟台鐵的共構未來保留未來的機會我是希望說鐵道局把它規劃進來啊交通部也能夠支持這樣OK嗎好這個我想我們請鐵道局我們自己來評估啦我想有很多的建設我今天講不完包括捷運紫瀉我先講一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6209.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6230.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
其實你只限現在目前高雄市政府的規劃是到樹德科大但是其實我也曾經要求過就是佛光山是世界的宗教聖地啦你今天只要國外人士到高雄來很多人都希望說能夠到這個佛教聖地去走一趟 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6231.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6259.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
那現在捷運只限到樹德科大那我也跟高雄市政府要求捷運局那邊我也保持聯繫我說你今天在樹德科大沒有到佛光山其實我們都覺得很可惜啦那現在可能經費的問題也好或者是人口數也好現在不到但是我們要保留到佛光山甚至到東高雄的機會那也許不見得是做捷運也許做輕軌 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6261.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6281.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
但是呢我這個路線不能到現在決定之後就把它斷掉我要保留未來再發展再延長再銜接的可能所以這個紫線的部分鐵道局跟交通部有沒有什麼想法未來有機會可以接到佛光山 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6283.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6294.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
跟委員報告這個案子現在是鐵道局在審查當中那剛剛委員所提示的這個保留未來的延伸機制我想我們可以在這個審查過程中跟高雄市政府來做討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6295.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6321.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
我是覺得要拜託鐵路局因為你們比較專業嘛那就說這延伸因為我們現在市府在規劃一定是現行的裁員跟現行的狀況去做可行性評估嘛但是我想到了就是我要想到10年後20年後的狀況所以我剛舉的例子我們鐵路地下化金五路橋那個就是10年後的10年前的思考今天完成那 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6323.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6350.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
高鐵台鐵在鳳山大寮邊界共構那個是未來有機會包括捷運子現在也接到鳳光山我希望說鐵道局根據你們的專業那跟市府討論就是說我不能把這個點未來延伸的機會的希望就把它斷掉我一定要保留未來延伸的機會這樣子你將來整個發展到那個程度的時候才有機會再把它蓋上去這樣好嗎好 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6351.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6371.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
那就拜託交通部跟鐵道局就多協助這個部分跟我們市政府一起努力啦我希望說我會再繼續要求這個將來我們有機會可以完成是好 謝謝好 謝謝委員好 謝謝許志杰委員 謝謝次長 謝謝局長接下來我們請魯明哲委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6384.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6389.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
謝謝主席有請我們交通部武次長跟鐵道局楊局長好 請武次長跟楊局長好 謝謝兩位今天我們來複習一下功課追一下進度我們考驗鐵路地下化這真的是從我在這個市議員從市議員然後一路有緣來到我們立法院也是交通委員會等於每一年都在 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6413.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6427.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
監督這個進度當時我們在議員的時候其實最早聽到的大概是115年就今年今年我們桃園的鄉親就鐵路地下化享受了這樣的一個新的一個戰區 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6429.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6447.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
那本來是15 16年當然來到立法院鐵道局之後你們原本的計畫那時候是18年到19年那當然這整個的過程我們都在我知道你們在新的一個修正計畫變成第一階段有五站在1122年 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6450.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6474.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
預計通車然後第二階段另外三站在123年9月通車首先我再問一下這個看是次長還是局長那目前的時間的計畫有沒有什麼樣的調整麻煩說明一下跟委員報告目前還沒有調整還沒有是不是目前沒有還有有沒有信心啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6476.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6486.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
我想因為修正計畫的核定會影響到這個122年的目標那我們希望修正計畫能夠盡快來核定 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6488.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6510.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
好的 請問一下我們現在桃園在桃園站文資的問題因為我們現在檢查所有的節點因為鐵路地下化一個地下軌道的工程其實只要有其中一站一站尤其主要軌道根本沒有做的話其實其他站你再好車也沒辦法通車啦那現在文資問題因為它正好是在地下嘛文資問題解決進度如何說明一下好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6511.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6518.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
因為我覺得這整線通車一個非常重要的可能的延誤點我們也討論很多次有沒有最新的進度說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6519.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6543.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
跟委員報告因為我們CJ12標就是桃園站的文資處理那挖掘計畫是已經得到通過就桃園市政文化局那所以我們現在在進行當中但是最重要的一個是移植計畫也就是要把這個相關挖掘出來的文資要做一個移植那這一部分文化局還沒有給我們審核通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6544.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6559.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
那你們這樣去估算你們總是要去判斷啦 好不好就是說你們因為在桃園站這樣的一個文字問題在整個桃園站區你們預估會造成多少天的延誤或者目前還在控制當中在控制當中啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6560.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6587.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
我覺得要控制好我覺得這個的部分不管跟台灣市政府也好相關因為有些文資他是要外面的委員其實也不是說完全政府可以控制但是你這個進度真的真的要非常非常注意會那再來就是我們看到了你現在新的計畫沒有變預計122年1月我們有五站通車可是這五站我們來看一下包含了 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6589.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6607.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
下面有1的就是你們第一期預計第一期120年要完工的站我們看到了內地站有那框框的還沒發包的內地站還沒發包還有鳳鳴站所以第一階段我們先檢查第一階段有兩個人列為第一期要完工的但他現在坦白講經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6609.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6628.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
經費到底行政院長核定沒有啊還沒有現在遇到什麼困難好像送去很久了嘛之前模範委員在總諮詢的時候那時候已經是一個多月前了現在卡在哪裡還是我們這個院裡面有跟次長你們在討論什麼還是就是放在桌上 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6629.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6651.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
沒有 結果我想這部分我們會後我們再來跟行政院面再來大家請教一下看有哪些還要再做修正這其實是已經送到那個院裡面去申核了不是 送到院裡面已經好一段時間了是不是你們今天會後你去了解一下嘛總是有一個原因嘛 對不對你不能放在那邊一個月 兩個月 三個月都沒有原因 都不知道那到時候大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6651.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6662.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
一定是會去怪行政院嘛那行政院他是有什麼樣的因素對不對合理的部分我覺得這個部分我們需要知道那這個部分在會後能不能幫我們去了解一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6665.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6690.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
好那再來因為你要整個通車我們滿擔心的因為這幾站因為整個軌道你們預計第一階段通車那有一些站是第二階段通車那可想而知這些站是夾在中間的所以他那些站你們預估他第二階段通車但是他主結構跟軌道是必須要可以通的不然你的車根本鑽不過去嘛也因為他的站體 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6691.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6706.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
後續有一些上面的工程在第二階段慢慢需要多一年但是你組結構這個的部分是肯定要搶先在第一階段的時候是要全線組結構是要通車這個局長你來說明一下是不是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6707.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6725.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
沒有錯因為我們鐵路地下化下地之後就全部通都要走到地下的隧道所以不管是第一階段還是第二階段的這個標案或者是車站那基本上路線上的結構跟隧道跟相關的機電耗資系統全部都要完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6725.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6747.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
那你說明一下好不好因為之前我們有討論過因為你個人當時兩年前的時候覺得我們內地站甚至鳳鳴站還有桃園醫院站這三個還沒發包的你們說有特別說因為他可能要的工期會比較稍微短一點他這個站比較簡單所以後面趕得上來你可不可以給我一個至少的時間點 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6749.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6767.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
譬如說今年年底我都沒有發包你到底因為這時間表不能騙人啊你說三點之後還沒發包還趕得上來我不相信啦你覺得這個極限發包的極限你們就專業的角度好不好這三站最晚最晚什麼時候發包才趕得上這個整線你們目前的計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6771.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6788.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
我們內地站已經做完零食鬼的切換那按照工程的順序的話零食鬼切換完當然原來的這個舊的軌道地方要做拆除拆除完之後就要執行永久軌跟地下隧道的工程 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6788.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6816.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
所以希望在下半年要能夠繼續的希望這半年能夠發包嘛 對不對是的我們拭目以待啦真的是要期待因為你要拖的話整個工程你即使不說我們最終目標沒有改變但你這個山寨沒有如果到一定節點沒有發包的時候就算你說這個我們目標還是這樣那坦白講那也是騙人的那再來你剛剛特別提到我們在零食鬼切換的整個過程4月28號 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6819.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6836.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
造成大堵車啦不過我也要謝謝你們在你們在反應的過程中我們看到台鐵公司 鐵道局 桃園市政府大概在三四天以內就想出了很多的計畫讓這個事情慢慢的緩解但我要拜託因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6838.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6865.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
畢竟大家要解決啦我知道交通的黑暗期市民的朋友其實都有心理準備可是我覺得有些東西你要事先溝通因為在4月28號零食鬼切換後面你們說因為你們切換主要是軌道內的事情所以在道安跟地方政府沒有經過一般的程序結果沒想到周邊的交通影響這麼大那在接下來你們施工的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6866.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6892.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
看到我們在116年到123年完工總共有九個平交道 九個地下道都會陸續的封閉其中有三個會一年以上六個月到一年的有九個那我這個的部分請務必鐵道局你不管這個跟桃園市政府相關的大安匯報這個應該會要去大安匯報吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6895.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6921.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
跟委員報告要按照看他的交通維持的計畫不過我們會非常嚴謹的記取這次內地戰的這個教訓所以我們一定會把這個我要特別請你注意要跟你拜託你們在封的過程中你不要臨近的要特別避免你知道嗎你封了這個他要繞旁邊的你不要一次封兩個這種臨近的沒有這樣的的不會有這樣的事吧是 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6922.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6933.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
稍微分開一點尤其有些主要像我們中壢浦中路地下道聽說今年要封大概要封多久你知道嗎他是半半施工他不會整個把它封掉對啊但是車道兩道可能變成單線怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6937.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6961.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
這個交通維持計畫如何繞道這個部分一定要提前兩三個月就來跟地方政府其實我們現在就在跟地方政府在討論要公告周知什麼時候開始好不好我們希望在減少一定不方便沒辦法交通黑暗級但是我們讓民眾先知道然後繞道怎麼樣一個維持的方式也事先規劃好拜託你好不好我們一定努力來做謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6964.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6988.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
好 謝謝魯明哲委員 謝謝次長 局長接下來我們請邱若驊委員發言好 謝謝主席 請主席邀請鐵道局楊局長好 請楊局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6998.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7017.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
局長好 同樣是桃園鐵路地下化的問題那這是我們地方期盼已久的重大工程但在這個工程推動的同時沿線的居民也受到影響尤其是噪音還有震動那我們也要同步來處理並且重視那在我的選區桃園8的局長您可以看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7017.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7042.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
高層市區它僅零鐵道而且它是在縱貫鐵路上那尤其是高層二街的10巷 22巷然後還有34巷這幾排住宅就在鐵道的第一排那居民長期受到影響其中有評價到的警示音然後還有列車行駛的噪音 軌道的震動那現在因為這個桃園鐵路地下化的工程鐵道局設置了臨時軌道 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7044.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7064.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
局長您也清楚嗎這個臨時的軌道的位置它又比原本的軌道的位置更鄰近住宅那居民也向我澄清反應那列車經過時候的噪音還有震動比過去更加明顯局長您知道這個問題嗎跟委員報告這個我們北宮分局已經有接到相關的反應 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7065.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7083.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
你們也有接到陳情那我這邊也有邀集鐵道局台鐵然後還有桃園市政府環保局到現場進行會刊那會刊後這邊鐵道局你們當時會刊的決議是由桃園市政府環保局先進行噪音的檢測那你們有收到檢測報告了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7086.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7105.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
這個我可能要再進一步確認一下那也這邊再請局長回去瞭解那後續也會將這個檢測報告然後交給鐵道局作為評估那這邊評判來偵測隔音牆那這邊先請教局長這個隔音牆然後還有吸音的就是吸音的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7108.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7130.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
然後你們有沒有在這個歷史軌道切換之前然後先去做現場的評估說這個歷史軌道切換之後它的震動然後還有噪音會比過去更大跟委員報告就兩個方向第一個我想我們會來降低施工的噪音因為施工過程其實會因為機具而產生一些噪音 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7131.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7151.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
那第二個就是說未來如果我們切換到臨時軌之後那麼列車的行駛因為相對更靠近民展那這一部分的話呢可能要根據剛剛講的台灣市政府環保局的這個噪音監測的數據那我們來評估是不是有設置達到設置隔音牆的這樣的一個標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7152.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7176.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
所以這個環保檢測照應他有時候像不管是鐵道局還是其他單位做有時候可能因為數據差一點點他就沒有辦法偵測這個隔音牆那現在因為他比過去還要更鄰近住宅那我這邊是希望因為這個局長您這邊的了解這個隔音牆有多久沒有做更換這個現在應該是沒有隔音牆吧這個地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7177.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7200.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
現在現場應該是沒有隔音牆現場是沒有隔音牆所以你們有沒有做其他降噪的措施降噪的話部分現在我們就是就施工的部分來做降噪因為原來鐵路就是這樣在做營運這邊他說他們也有反映這個平交道的提示音這個台鐵他們可以再去做調整嗎那像這樣噪音的部分你們如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7201.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7214.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
有沒有其他的相關的像是降噪然後還有減緩這個震動你們可以如何協助居民就現在台鐵營運中的軌道系統來看的話應該只有偵測隔音牆一途 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7215.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7243.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
只有偵測隔音牆到時候等環保局的資料交給你們之後我們一定會用最大的善意來做評估除了這個數據之外我也希望我們可以再次到現場實際的去了解這個噪音和震動對當地的居民造成多大的影響另外再請教局長這個是有關軌道建設的淨零碳排還有預算的執行率我有看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7244.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7258.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
2025淨零碳排油加強軌道建設它列為綠色的運輸的核心骨幹那根據交通部過往的統計在第二期的運輸部門減碳投入了高達2700億的預算那第三期2026到2030年會預計再投入1300億可是目前在全國的 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7262.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7266.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
公共運輸市佔率卻創新低 僅約14.3%除了雙北跟基隆之外 很多縣市的公共運輸建設市佔率低於10%運輸部門每年排放高達3629萬噸的攤牌其中的公路運輸佔96% |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7285.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7314.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
那這代表高額的軌道基金跟綠色運輸的預算砸下去可是目前因為工程的延宕像是多項鐵路地下化的標案剛剛魯明哲委員也有提到嘛目前都還沒有發包那也導致民眾沒有辦法享受就是公共運輸帶來的便利那目前也是高度仰賴私人的運具那減碳的效果完全沒有辦法呈現出來那局長鐵道局有訂定了鐵道工程減碳的作業指引那目前我們看到工程流標然後還有修改計畫工程延宕嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7315.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7331.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
那也在原地反覆的開挖那造成了巨大的碳排那鐵道局你們有沒有將實際實際這個在運輸的預算然後還有他就是在轉試的運具他產生的碳量然後納入評測的納入決策的評估呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7332.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7358.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
有 各位報告這一個碳盤廠 這個我們是有做相關的這些工作那未來的這一些我們的鐵道工程裡面我們都會設定減碳的基準其實最主要是材料也就是我們所選擇的材料那它的這個碳排量的一個改變的話就能夠降低我們的這個施工之間造成的碳排 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7359.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7384.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
就了解到你們都會不定期的去做評估嗎那也再加上評估評估這個報告提供一份給本席那明澤剛剛委員也有提到說像是鳳鳴站還有內地站那先前這邊也請教過局長包括桃園醫院站目前都還沒有發包那這個您剛剛有提到在半年內你們會再去做如果半年內不能夠繼續做的話恐怕會對目標會有點影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7386.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7412.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
那我們是希望半年內啦因為這個工程已經高達數十年之久了那另外盧委員也提到這個臨時軌道的切換那造成造成地方的不便那這邊也要特別提醒還有評測車站那平鎮地區也是人口密度非常高那也希望鐵道局這邊和地方也保持暢通的溝通有我們跟桃園市政府有非常密切的合作跟溝通OK好以上謝謝局長謝謝委員謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7415.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7431.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
好謝謝邱若驊委員謝謝我們蔣局長好接下來我們請萬美玲委員發言好謝謝張偉我們有請一下次長好我們請吳次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7440.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7461.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
市長好 在上個禮拜本市好像有看到你有針對一個我們現在不再興建鐵路平交道的一個訪問當中那有提到說不管是鐵路定下化啦或者是高下化啦您都希望說都市發展不要去被鐵路切斷也就是說我們所有的馬路不要有因為鐵路而造成有這些零碎破碎的狀態 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7462.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7488.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
那麼你希望用這個方式讓我們的這個市區交通更順暢那但是呢我們的桃園鐵路地下化其實當時會從高架到地下也就是我們經過評估以後希望地下化更能夠讓我們整個縱貫道跟我們後站之間的馬路中間不要有這樣零碎被這個鐵路平道切斷那麼同時這個安全還有交通的順暢 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7489.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7511.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
都是現在您所說的目標所以我們鐵路地下化跟交通部次長您現在的表達其實是一致的但是既然我們是一致的想往這個目標去前進那我就不理解了今天不管是魯明哲委員邱若驊委員到本席陸陸續續總諮詢交通委員會的質詢我們都在講我們的鐵路地下化真的是一言再言我們桃園人有一句話常常在講說 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7512.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7531.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
如果活得不夠久的話 我根本沒有辦法等到鐵路地下化能來一天我覺得怎麼會讓我們桃園市的市民如此失望那當然我們的鐵路地下化的相關的變更計畫本席也提了非常多次 您以及這個部長都知道在去年的8月我們就送這個行政院去簽程了但是到現在超過10個月了那問了這個部長 部長有時候要去溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7537.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7550.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
溝通完以後有沒有下文那今天特別問一下次長為什麼到底為什麼我們行政院遲遲都沒有辦法來核定理由是什麼那麼我們在幾次去反映之後你們到底有沒有去問過行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7551.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7571.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
跟委員報告 其實這個案子我們也很急你們也很急嗎謝謝 代表桃園市民謝謝交通部也很急但是除了急之外 具體的作為是什麼是 跟委員報告 因為這個案子剛提到的整個由高架改為地下確實是對整個都市的縫合真的是比較好 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7572.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7579.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
那這個案子本來大概那個我也知道這中間有一些修正計劃修正計劃的部分自然我時間有限啦我就在問你嘛這個修正計劃我們已經送上去這麼久了十個月為什麼遲遲都不簽合為什麼你這麼急那你有沒有去了解呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7591.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7607.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
我們已經送到行政院之前我們也一直在推進度那我想我們會後再跟那個國安會那邊再了解現在目前還有什麼其他問題那之前這十個月當中我們中間都有跟他溝通這十個月當中你有沒有去了解有急就會了解嘛那了解會得到的答案是什麼呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7608.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7625.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
大概幾個他問我們了解說這幾個修正計畫包括南眼增加的或是一些都市計畫增加100多億這個文字部這個交通部其實已經跟他們報告過很多次了對我們這中間因為他們還是有一些意見所以他們一直聽不明白對我們還是有去這多年前我們還是有跟他說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7626.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7634.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
還是聽不明白不是剛講因為這部分他也還是有這個疑義啦我們也跟他說明過了我認為啦交通不完我們立場目標一致希望鐵路地化早日做完然後呢我們也同意了我們也簽成了那這麼久你也急那是不是應該要再加速去催促啊那再來喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7648.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7652.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
我們現在這個計畫當中 當時我們的計畫寫的是769億那我們也要知道 這當中不管是美伊戰爭 或者是物價飆漲等等只會越來越嚴重那769億現在還夠嗎現在應該是到1400多億什麼我們現在769億要增加到1400多億 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7677.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7685.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
市長我們本來追加769億嘛那現在追加的這769億還有沒有要再增加 還夠嗎目前沒有 目前沒有 剛剛幾個大因素剛剛提到了嘛市長我認為啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7699.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7725.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
你恐怕還是要再重新盤點一次因為這是一年前的數字769億一年後的今天769億還夠不夠北京市一直在提醒大家如果我們一直延宕一直延宕原物料一直上漲這個結果會造成什麼就是惡性循環我們就是會一直惡性循環我們過去為什麼會有這個追加計畫就是因為我們前面延宕延宕了以後呢結果呢各戰爭世界的因素等等缺工缺料所以我們才會提出這個計畫然後去追加 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7727.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7746.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
那現在追加的計畫你再延宕的一年這個追加計畫會不會要再追加一次?您了解我在講什麼嗎?我知道您都知道嘛,所以急啊再幫我們去詢問一下好不好?去催促一下好不好?好那一個禮拜之內可不可以讓我知道一下這個進度到哪裡?好,我們可以一周好嗎?好 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7748.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7771.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
接下來我看到您還有一個報告說為了要降低這個平交道的事故台鐵現在有規劃針對全台397處的平交道我們設置了障礙物偵測系統我覺得這個利益很好我覺得很棒目前已經完成了313處可是我看到全台其實有415處的平交道為什麼我們寫的是397 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7773.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7791.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
不是 因為他有一些優先順序 我想這部分我們優先順序不是 剛講的就是幾個比較擠的 我們要先做啦沒有 你總數量到底是多少啊全部都已經做起來總數量是多少有些總共415嘛那總共415 那為什麼你是只針對397來做 剩下的不重要嗎有些是因為剛講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7799.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7824.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
那個地理條件沒辦法去增設所以才這部分必須要另外一個配套措施就是這一次的這一次的那個修法市長你要不要換人答你這樣子我替你感到好辛苦喔都要這個旁邊的人給你一些小抄啊給你提醒啊這個真的就是這樣剛講的這個415有些剩下的沒辦法做就是因為有些地理環境沒辦法去增設所以有扣除掉一些是地理環境不能做的就是扣除這些的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7824.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7854.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
那我再請教一下那這313處啊我們有沒有去驗收過說我們做完以後這個效果好不好使用上有沒有問題我們有驗收過嗎目前在做都目前是驗收是ok的沒有問題好那我們現在還剩多少要完成84我好痛苦喔你要不要叫看誰比較了解來回答市長加油啊好不好這個我們督導業務啊我們也要了解一下啦好不好好那我們現在有84喔那84預計要到什麼時候可以全部完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7855.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7856.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
台鐵部分是預估120年完成120年?為什麼?因為有經費的問題有經費的問題?所以你預算不夠? |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7876.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7889.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
好我這麼講喔市長如果說現在平交道還必須存在無法消失的我們當然要優化強化他的這些安全相關的配備那這是很急的事情我認為這麼急的事情攸關安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7892.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7912.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
沒有委員會反對這樣的預算啊那你們自己要好好去編預算我們一定同意的啊所以你執行就要快啊你來跟我講一個沒有錢這太奇怪了沒有預算這太奇怪了我想莊委在這裡大概也聽不下去啊對不對而且這也不是一個很大的經費這絕對不是很大筆的經費而且是必要的經費那為什麼不好好編預算把它送上來我們趕快來做呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7913.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7922.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
對不對你們一天到晚針對不痛不癢的東西都在編什麼特別預算了那這個既然是很有效果也很有用的你今天跟我說要到120年因為沒有預算這在說什麼呢次長次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7925.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7943.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
有這個預算因為是台鐵公司這邊編列的那他我這邊就沒有掌握他的市長這個會後下去能不能今天下班之前把這個預算到底怎麼回事那怎麼執行的編多少缺多少那到底送了多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7944.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7971.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
我覺得是不是要跟交通委員會的委員來交代一下喔因為你這樣說的好像是關於我們鐵路平教道的安全的相關的這個計畫你說預算不夠難道是我們交通委員會的委員過去都不支持你們嗎我覺得帽子又扣太大了喔所以我想能不能今天下班前喔今天下班前把這個預算到底是怎麼回事要到120年如果是因為預算的關係我想沒有這個問題我們委員會全力支持好不好你們加油一點好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7974.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7983.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
好謝謝萬美玲委員謝謝次長跟局長接下來請羅明財委員發言羅明財羅明財不在接下來請蔡易瑜委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
7998.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8006.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
好謝謝主席那我們是不是有請這個交通部我們武次長跟鐵道局楊局長我們請武次長跟楊局長委員好次長好次長我想你們對於整個水上的高價化這件事你們都很熟了因為我們這個水上高價化事實上是討論了很久了 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8027.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8053.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
那現在高加化縣政府正在規劃中但是從整個規劃到爭取到執行我看那個要足夠 反正要10天的時間比較勇敢會好啦那要足夠的時間但是你們知道現在在水上車站前面的那一個交流道的一個車輛的一個瓶頸尤其遇到紅綠燈的時候就正好火車過的時候那個會塌在那這個要馬上解決啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8056.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8078.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
這個我覺得事實上就有一個措施就是說在於那一個水上的那一個平礁道它旁邊就有一條路嘛那條路你如果開下去開到大水我就去解決曬在那邊然後又離紅綠燈太近然後造成了回堵產生的一個危險的這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8081.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8104.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
所以我會覺得說 這一個站在鐵道局 我們交通部的立場能不能直接解決啊你們知道我指的這個平交道他就在鐵路邊 那條路就給他做一個現在就讓他可以通行啦主席 你說是中心路平交道嗎中心路平交道我印象中旁邊這個路 我們應該是有跟縣政府做過討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8105.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8133.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
對 但是還沒有執行 我意思是說這條你若屬於執行 你就屬於改革影響的溝通問題那高價化當然是未來在我們現在 縣政府正在做可行性評估然後這個評估一直到縱使未來爭取到預算到做 那是耗時間但是我們不能在我們現在整個水上事實上也是在發展中在發展中的時候 它的溝通問題在那裡已經不是回堵那裡甚至還有一些安全性的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8136.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8160.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
剛講水上基地跟這個中心路拼交道旁邊這一條聯絡道我印象中是有跟縣政府做過你指的是聯絡道是車輛基地我現在指的是指這個水上車站然後往水上農會倉庫的這一個方向那這條路可能有涉及到這個到底應該是從哪個主辦單位來做處理的問題沒關係因為都是交通部啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8161.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8172.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
事實上都是交通部所以鐵道局局長 楊局長你一定知道那裡整個對不對事實上交通部你們願意把這一條路打走出來他定義說我為中心路過我的車輛到那裡剛好紅燈還是剛好明朝道落下的時候我就往右轉 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8177.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8195.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
往農會倉庫那一個地方挖地皮然後挖地皮之後再到另外一側再彎進去所以等於它會讓車輛保持移動的狀態那這樣一個車輛的移動的狀態就不會產生回堵因為回堵是會造成那裡的交通一旦車輛車的時候會有安全性問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8196.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8224.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
委員講的旁邊那就是應該應該就台一線啊台一線跟平交道中間是有一個距離的對因為台一線跟平交道距離過近過近才會產生回堵的安全性問題這件事情因為我們現在高價化的爭取還需要時間所以我們必須在這個兩年內利用這個交通的工程馬上解決安全性問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8225.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8234.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
那就是我現在說的,我們如果有中心路入路,你跟那個鐵路,拼在那條路,你剛好車輛可以通行我們不用做很大條的,你只要差不多有多少到六米路 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8239.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8265.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
所以我是不是要了解一下那個那個地就是剛講那個全管的問題應該是到底是哪個地方政府還是我們這邊公務局可以來處理的好啊好啊 我是幹嘛局長有機會來了解我覺得楊局長事實上腦袋是有概念以那個空間因為你來那麼多次了嘛那所以這個是高加化問題然後水上高加化我希望你們在高加化的時候如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8266.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8282.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
這個高架化是一個方向 事實上你們要想辦法 為什麼現在最新的高架化會變得很重要因為現在也要說這個車輛車輛多 事實上你們能不能這個高架化甚至仿造台南的沙崙支線 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8284.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8296.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
然後你在水上,以車站,然後他就從水上的初K初K前面的水上基點那條,然後把它高架,做一個支線為水上初K支線進去,支線進去到168就到高鐵了 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8301.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8313.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
現在很多人在講一些概念 可是這樣最快我們爭取水深高架化 順便從水上 它就到水上車頭車頭對面就是車車 主要由車車到那條彎進去然後經過我們現在的空軍第四連隊 那條路主要就拆進去 主要直接拆到高鐵站 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8321.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8350.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
那整個交通就會整個順暢起來那我是覺得說這件事情我們交通部整體的去評估那水上的高價化在過去的時候因為民雄先行水上說是第二期嘛那現在已經到了時機成熟我覺得次長這整體的評估我還是強力的認為水上高價化勢在必行但是在高價化的這段空窗期我們要先解決那裡的交通安全問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8351.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8366.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
好 這部分我再請鐵道局這邊再整理做一個評估啦好 謝謝次長 謝謝感謝好 謝謝蔡依依委員 謝謝次長 謝謝局長接下來請游皓委員發言 游皓游皓不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8368.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8379.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
登記諮詢委員均已發言完畢我們做以下決定報告及訊號完畢委員黃建豪 陳慶隆 何欣淳 陳素悅 游皓 傅坤祺等委員所提書片諮詢列入紀錄並刊登公報 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8381.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8403.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
委員於諮詢中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答覆部分請交通部及相關單位盡速與書面答覆針對今日會議作以下決議115年度鐵道發展基金台鐵局撥入資產及債務管理基金非營業預算審查報告及詢問完畢令定期進行處理委員提案於本日下午4點截止收件散會 |