| IVOD_ID |
17534 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17534 |
| 日期 |
2026-06-18 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
聯席會議-11-5-22,26-1 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
22 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[1] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
教育及文化委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[1] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2026-06-18T08:34:21+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-06-18T15:54:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
07:19:39 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/3832c314c43c373d102c86100c6a69f300fcc21bbbb1cb316dbd1a1f1ae502167049b7d1d7be8b875ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-06-18T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、審查
(一)委員蘇清泉等20人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。
(二)委員徐欣瑩等20人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案。
(三)委員林月琴等16人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第三十條條文修正草案」案。
(四)委員王育敏等21人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法部分條文修正草案」案。
(五)委員陳培瑜等18人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第十一條、第十二條及第三十二條之一條文修正草案」案。
(六)委員徐巧芯等21人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案。
(七)委員葉元之等17人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案。
(八)委員黃仁等19人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案。
(九)委員張嘉郡等19人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案。
(十)委員羅廷瑋等22人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案。
(十一)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案。
(十二)委員羅智強等17人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案。
(十三)委員鄭正鈐等17人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案。
(十四)委員林倩綺等23人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案。
(十五)委員廖先翔等16人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案。
(十六)委員王育敏等23人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案。
(十七)委員王育敏等21人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第四十三條及第五十二條條文修正 草案」案。
(十八)委員廖偉翔等23人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案。
(十九)委員葛如鈞等18人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案。
(二十)委員李彥秀等19人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案。
【進行詢答及逐條審查】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:34:21 - 15:54:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1187.118 |
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1187.321 |
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嗯嗯嗯 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1625.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1654.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
好現在報告委員會現在出席委員已足法定人數現在開會本次會議議程審查委員蘇清純等二十人擬具幼兒教育照顧法第三十七條條文修正草案等二十案首先介紹在場委員張家俊委員王韻明委員陳培宇委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1657.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1680.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
林月琴委員接著介紹與會的官員沒關係教育部國民及學生教育署署長彭富源沒關係好教育部青年發展署署長陳雪玉國家發展委員會社會發展處專務委員蘇艾娟 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1684.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1708.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
衛生福利部社會及家庭署組長王靈慧法務部參事王南軍行政院主計總處公務計算處專門委員王淺凱待會與會官員再另外介紹其餘列席的機關代表請參閱名單並列入公報記錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1712.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1720.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
現在進行提案說明請問是否委員要提案說明好我們第一位張家俊委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1737.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1762.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
感謝昭偉那主席各位同仁大家早安台灣現在面臨年輕人不敢生不敢養是一個嚴峻的衝擊也是一場無聲的危機已經到了動搖國本的地步那內政部最新公布的人口統計資料今年5月份全台灣的新生兒人數 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1763.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1772.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
居然只有6832人跟去年同月相比直接暴跌了近兩成18.98%而今年前五個月加起來全台灣的新生兒竟然只有 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1782.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1806.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
39,020人如果按照这个令人绝望的速度继续掉下去我们今年全年的出生人口恐怕会直接跌破10万大关更可怕的是我们的人口已经连续29个月负成长生不如死5月份的死亡人数更是达到出生人数的2.2倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1807.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1822.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
那为什么会不敢生呢依然是那个沉重的四个字就是育儿负担那现行的育幼儿托育政策依旧让我们的家长感觉非常的卡关 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1822.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1840.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
就算今天運氣好抽到了公立或者是非營利的準公共幼兒園每個月零零總總扣除掉補助後家長還是要承擔數千塊不等的費用那如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1840.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1866.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
是讀私立幼兒園的家庭呢那就更辛苦了現行的這個學期補助如果把它平單到每個月裡面真的是這個杯水車薪壓得年輕的家庭喘不過氣來而且長期以來城鄉之間的育兒成本差距到現在也沒有得到根本性的緩解所以本席認為政府應該要負擔起 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1868.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1882.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
更多的托育责任所以我们提出幼儿教育照顾法第七条修正草案就是希望落实国家公共抚育共同抚育的责任 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1883.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1903.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
那首先呢要讓公立跟非營利幼兒園呢實現全額補助制使父母或者是監護人實現零負擔入學那對這個私立幼兒園則應該將補助標準提高至每月至少15000元將這個縮小 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1908.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1925.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
公共化跟私立體系之間的收費差距給予家長實質的選擇權各位同仁我們唯有透過最直接最實質的經濟幫助才能打破少子女化的衝擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1926.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
1951.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
幫家長減輕負擔也只有優化現行的補助機制我們才能建構一個讓家長感生感癢的社會支持體系這不只是在幫助現在的年輕父母減壓更是在提升國人的生育這個意願為台灣的下一代做關鍵的投資敬請各位同仁支持謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
1955.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
1959.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
好謝謝張家俊委員下一位王玉明委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
1967.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
1989.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
主席各位朋友大家早國家跟你一起一樣不能只是口號一定要修法落實誠如剛剛張家俊委員也提到非常多的數據我們少子化的危機其實已經變成是國安危機我們看到上個月新生兒的人數已經來到歷史的次低只有6832人 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
1992.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2012.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
人口連續29個月的負成長 年減19%這樣子的一個危機 需要政府有魄力 拿出更大的政策支持來讓我們的年輕朋友真的敢去生小孩 感受到國家跟他們一起一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2013.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2027.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那我們來看一下今天本席提出來的這樣的一個修法的意見呢就是希望在六歲以下的孩子無論他是念准公幼一般是立幼兒園公立幼兒園或非立幼兒園這些多種的體系 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2029.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2037.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
他們都得到政府強力的支撐我們可以看到現在就讀私立幼兒園的人數仍然高達184,891人佔整體的33.3% |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2044.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2057.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
他們現在要負擔的每個月的學費也是最高昂的我們可以來看下一張喔這個目前如果我們就讀公立的幼兒園大概平均第一胎他的負擔是1000塊非營利是2000塊準公 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2062.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2088.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
準公幼是三千塊一般的私幼落在一萬五之間喔那這麼懸殊的一個差額你可以看到這個父母親他有人選擇私幼是因為我們整體的公幼的量能不足即使我們辦了這個準公幼但是實行下來現在你可以看到有三成三的家長他的孩子一樣必須就讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2089.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2094.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
私立的幼兒園喔那在這樣的狀況底下這些家長的權益我們應該也要顧及因此本席今天提出來的這樣子的一個條文的修正就是在第七條裡面我們給這一些就讀私立的幼兒園每個月的補助不低於一萬五 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2109.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2126.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
但是我是有配套的在第43條裡面我們同時也規範這些私立的這些幼兒園你的收費標準你必須揭露而且不得無正當理由的任意的去變相收費或者是漲價 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2127.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2129.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
那如果有這樣的情況第52條還搭配了違規的處罰那這個就是要讓家長真的獲得支持而且也去抑制業者任意的漲價這是有相關配套的所以之前有民團提出來說通過第7條可能會有圖利的問題我想去 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2149.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2173.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
搭配了43條跟52條同步修法有了這樣的配套之後我想不是圖利業者而是支持家長我們讓就讀私立幼兒園的家長也可以感受到政府有力的強而有力的這樣的一個支撐那所以我要再次呼籲少子化已經變成國安危機國家一起養需要我們修法來落實 以上謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2176.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2192.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
好謝謝王玉敏委員第三個陳培鈺委員不好意思因為這裡有登記你登記的抱歉抱歉抱歉因為這裡有寫到 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2194.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2216.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
好 第四位林玉琴委員林玉琴也沒有說明 那你就林玉琴對不起 對不起 林玉琴委員你也沒有 那你怎麼都寫上去了沒關係 你就去講 我幫你解釋因為還有下一位 第五位好 接下來我們先請羅廷偉委員進行提案說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2222.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2227.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
好 接下來我們請台灣民眾黨黨團的代表蔡春筹委員進行提案說明主席 大家早安 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2241.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2261.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
有鉴于国家既透过公共化及准公共化教保政策持续降低幼儿家长的负担则对于就读公立幼儿园非营立幼儿园以及政府合作提供准公共 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2262.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2284.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
教保服務之私立幼兒園之幼兒更應進一步以法例明定其補助標準現行幼兒教育及照顧法第七條第六項所以設有補助規定為人屬授權性的一個規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2285.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2300.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
且為明文要求公共私立幼兒園非營利幼兒園以及政府合作提供準公共教保服務之私立幼兒園以補助後達到家長 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2303.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2326.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
免納協會、雜會以及中央主管機關一第43條第一項規定所定之材料會、活動會、午餐會及點心會之標準因此本席幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案以落實憑教教保政策減輕家庭育兒負擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2330.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2344.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
並保障幼兒接受適當的教育及照顧之權益 以上好 我們謝謝蔡春草委員的發言 接下來我們請羅廷威委員進行提案說明好 謝謝幼兒 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2354.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2379.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
教育及照顧法第七條條文修正我要提前說明帶第七條的給予支持我們也會共同呼籲我們王玉明委員所提的四十三條五十二條條文修正給予相關的幼教業者更多的監督不讓他們惡意的漲價腐亂編列巧立名目 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2380.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2408.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
教育是最重要的根本大忌也是影響著國家長遠的發展在這一次能夠支持我們所有的年輕家庭生兒育女敢生敢養我認為將這一次的支持來綁定教育是非常重要的面對少子女化的趨勢家庭育兒日益加重的一個負擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2410.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2428.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
我們看到之前國民黨所提出的每個月5000元我們也跟國人報告我們也希望提出幼兒教育的補助我們更希望能夠增加0到6歲相關的健保免費 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2429.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2457.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
這都是希望能夠讓每一個家庭真正被支持才敢生才敢養而現行政府所以推動准公共化還有公共化的公立幼兒園公托公幼許多的家長常常都非常諷刺的說抽公托公幼就像是抽大樂透這樣的一個相關支持措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2458.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2471.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
但是我們看到因為不同教保服務型態相關的補助仍然有差異特別是接受到私立幼兒園服務者其實際的負擔相對較重 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2474.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2488.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
乃至于补助的制度上仍有不一致未尽周延之处所以今天我们所提出的不管是第七条条文修正第43条给予更高强度的监督 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2490.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2505.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
52条也一样我们就是希望在民定政府应该帮忙补助接受教保服务的幼儿协助家庭更能够让他们在提供教育的服务过程当中 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2506.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2524.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
能夠因為有了補助每月無需繳費能夠接受私立幼兒園服務者每位還能夠有相對應的補助幼兒園的費用一萬五千元以縮減不同教保體系家長之間的負擔差距 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2525.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2544.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
提升補助制度公平性一致當然我們也樂見能夠進入到主條更細部的討論有的人說排除惡劣的人有的人說排除所謂富有的人這個部分我都希望能夠進入到實質的討論不要沒有討論就將這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2549.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2559.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
利益良善的法規就拒之千里也希望我們朝野立委能夠共同來支持做家庭的後盾0到18歲現在我們也樂見耐心的總統跟進 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2565.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2579.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
來發放五千元但是實際街訪訪查很多的年輕人還是說五千元根本沒有辦法讓他有感生感癢的一個念頭尤其現在又宣布社會住宅大量的減少興建 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2580.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2602.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
那負擔還是在只是將他們移往了別處有可能是房貸有可能是每月聯本貸利這些都是希望透過綁定教育減少教育的支出來讓他們的生活壓力減少 以上好 我們謝謝羅廷威委員的提案說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2613.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2635.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
提案說明完畢請接著我先補充介紹我們教育部部長鄭英耀教育部國民及學生教育署署長彭復原繼續進行報告請教育部鄭英耀部長報告時間10分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2648.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2661.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
主席各位委員各位女士先生大家早安大家好感謝各界對學前教育的關心今天大宴教育及文化委員會社會福利及衛生環境委員會召開審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2663.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2679.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
幼兒教育及照顧法修法草案本部應要列席並得聆聽各位委員各界先進及學者專家的寶貴意見自感榮幸本部請就委員提案計20案回應說明敬請各位委員指教一 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2681.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2693.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
委員徐欣盈等20人委員徐曉新等21人委員葉延之等17人委員黃仁等19人委員張家俊等19人委員羅廷偉等22人台灣民眾黨立法院黨團 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2698.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2724.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
委員羅志強等17人委員鄭振權等17人委員林倩琦等23人委員廖先祥等16人委員王玉敏等23人委員廖偉翔等23人委員葛如荊等18人及委員李燕秀等19人提案第7條有關就讀公立非營利及准公幼幼兒園者免費提高育兒津貼部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2725.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2734.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
首先在現行就學輔助與育兒津貼是透由我國少子女化對策計畫及相關行政規則據以辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2737.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2759.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
据执行弹性无需透过法例明定使能执行二相关经费是由中央及地方政府共同支应提高额度涉及重大经费支出尚需考量各地方政府意见以审慎原意建议维持现有做法二 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2760.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2788.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
委員陳培宜等18人提案第11條、第12條、增列第12條之一有關教保階段提供充足且專業之閱讀資源服務及教育部分閱讀文化之養成也整合於教保活動課程中本部並定有幼兒教保及照顧服務實施準則幼兒園教保活動課程大綱幼兒園及分班基本設施設備標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2790.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2805.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
教育部幼兒園閱讀推動實施計畫及幼兒園健康與安全教育參考教材等閱讀推動作為與委員所提方向一致後續並可再強化引導建議維持現行條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2806.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2830.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
三委員王玉敏等21人提案第25條第27條第28條及第54條有關修正教保相關人員違法事件調查相關程序加重負責人及其他服務人員違反通報義務罰則之規定及部分條文文字修正等部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2832.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2853.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
一中央法規標準法第十七條規定已可適用一二年八月十六日修正公佈後性別平等教育法規定並無自愛原建議維持現行條文二令現行條文及相關執法業規定通報及查詢有無消極 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2854.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2865.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
資格情形以行政調查期間因依法管制行為人暫時停止可達調查期間管制行為人不得接觸誘惑之目的 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2868.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2886.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
又照法第61條驗明文明定直轄市縣市主管機關得依行政法法第18條第2項處以較高額度之罰款基於現行已有相關規範以委員所提方向一致建議維持現行條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
2888.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
2914.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
是委員林月琴等16人提案第30條有關民定直轄市縣市主管機關因於法定代理人或實際照顧者申請調查相關資料時已提供部分本部約定定教保相關人員違法事件調查處理辦法民定直轄市縣市主管機關或學校 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
2915.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
2942.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
陳終極結議後應於15日內以書面載明事實及理由年同調查報告通知行為人事件關係又而知法定代理人或實際照顧者另有關監視器管理及調閱除於行政程序法第46條規定申請外本部國教署也函發高級中等以下學校及教保服務機構 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
2945.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
2969.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
監視錄影系統管理具體做法直轄縣市政府提供越南教保相關人員違法事件監視錄影系統涉錄影音資料注意事項據已辦理考量現行已有相關規範及機制原建議維持現行條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
2971.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
2995.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
五、委員抒情前等二十人提案第37條有關增訂教保服務機構採買食材應優先採用符合食品安全衛生管理法等相關法令及應公開是否含有已行受提訴等相關資訊部分現行教保服務機構公參一律使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
2996.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3007.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
活產豬肉牛肉食材且應訂定幼兒飲食餐點表並定期公佈每日餐點內容以家長之息基於現行已有規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3009.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3030.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
也建議維持現行條文六委員王一鳴等21人提案第43條及第52條有關增訂私立教保服務機構收費調整應揭露調整理由成本結構或政府補助使用情形及增訂相關罰則部分考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3031.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3051.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
2. |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3053.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3078.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
決議有關委員提案考量現行條文相關執法或行政規則頁有相關規範本部持續收集地方政府及各界意見滾動檢討相關制度及配套措施並兼顧誘生權益教育現場需求以及政策推動效能以上報告敬請各位委員不吝指教謝謝各位 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3080.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3103.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
好 謝謝鄭部長報告其餘提出書面報告機關代表除書面外有無口頭補充報告機關代表報告完畢相關書面資料請各位參閱並列入公報記錄現在進行詢答每位出席委員詢答的時間是6分鐘列席委員質詢時間為4分鐘均不再延長 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3107.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3130.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
發言登記時間截止為上午十點半委員如有臨時提案請於上午十點半前提出並於法院法案審查完畢再行處理處理提案時若提案委員及連署委員均不在場照案例不予處理首先請第一位登記的委員陳佩玉委員來質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3136.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3147.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
好 謝謝主席有請部長有請部長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3148.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3168.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
好部長早安今天雖然要談的是這個幼教法修法但是我還是要回到校師會議因為這幾天還是有非常多新聞在蔓延但我想我們想要先釐清一個事實也跟教育部這邊對照一下資料其實現在會有所謂的校師會議是在108年我們針對教師法進行修法當時修了29條而且我要說 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3171.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3189.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
修法的时候是在108年我当时应该还不是立委部长您也还不是部长可能现在现场知道这个状况的人maybe只有国教署彭署长对吧所以署长我有说错吗是在108年的时候我们针对教师法29条进行修法所以有了校师会议这个制度对吗署长 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3190.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3219.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
我們要處長回答 部長我們當時不在是的 我想確實當時教師法裡面只有在92年有對這個高級中等學校以下不適任教師有一個這個處理的注意事項只有到108年才開始把6月5號才把這個在教師法裡面納入了這些未來怎麼處理這個不適任的教師確實我想它是一個發展性的是一種演進我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3220.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3238.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
在那個年代我們都是關心教育但是我們並沒有參與這一個而且好 下一張回應部長剛剛的說法當時之所以會促成這個修法其實我想很多時空背景我就不再贅述但我要講的是當時在修法的時候其實教育部也做了非常多正確的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3239.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3251.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
包含啟動研商之後開了9場的專家學者研商會議在109年的1月到2月後來甚至開了教師團體研商也就是把老師團體都請過來開了4場會議到了109年2月到109年4月持續召開焦點團體座談到了109年4月 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3259.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3287.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
中央政府當然要跟地方政府溝通所以有很多法規一議的討論零零總總加起來經過了20場會議把所有在校事會議所有的利害關係人從老師、家長、學生然後校方都抓進來然後當然主管機關也抓進來所以我要說校事會議當時我們要解決是什麼就是有非常多在學校裡面的不適任教師他們的惡名昭彰影響了所有在學校裡面認真教書的老師 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3287.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3300.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
他們的好名被破壞了他們被拖下水所以當時我們為了處理這些不適應老師不論是因為教學不利或者是虐童事件當時其實社會的氛圍是這樣所以做了這個修法 對嗎 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3301.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3321.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
是的確實在108年之前107在那一個106這幾年裡面確實校園出現了許多這些額內的一個事件然後造成包含地方政府也在處理上也發現有一些困難所以才會有這樣的一個機制的一個啟動 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3323.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3341.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
好所以但是現在校師會議確實也被某些人濫用了確實這個情況我相信部長您也看到了很多民意團體也都看到了大家聲音都被聽到所以我認為我們現在制度如果遭到濫用我們就應該大破大立的改革這個我相信大家都認同所以往下看來下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3342.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3366.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
前一阵子我们不断跟教育部在谈所谓教师离县权我觉得这也是一个很好的开始谢谢教育部采纳了我们办公室提出来的建议叫做教师离县权我们目前看到教育部已经发文给各县市政府这个部分我要谢谢教育部的回应也要给教育部肯定可是我们看了相关的公文我们还是有一些担心我想还是要在这里跟部长分享几个我们的建议第一个 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3367.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3387.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
目前加班費跟換補休的補償機制有沒有在跟各縣市政府溝通各級學校溝通經費的運作是不是可行第二個教育部現在有沒有調查過老師的每個月加班的情況還有對老師來說回復家長訊息算不算是加班因為離線權可能就在這裡有灰色模糊地帶再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3387.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3402.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
其實現場老師最擔心的是什麼就是當老師主張他幾點到幾點是所謂離線權合法合理的應用的時候會不會反而變成被家長投訴的標的我八點以後我有我個人的時間然後我到十點甚至到隔天早上六點 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3403.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3425.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
老師主張他的離線權結果家長8點01分賴老師教老師硬要回一個不是那麼緊急的事情那會不會反而被投訴這個部分我想在相關的公文我們其實沒有看到太仔細的說明那我也不確定目前教育部跟縣市共同狀況如何但因為今天時間有限我就是把我們的建議提出來拜託教育部國教署再帶回去研議可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3426.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3455.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
好那接下來下一個關於今天又造反我們辦公室版本我還是要再一次強調我把閱讀納進來當然有我們重要的考量來下一張主要是因為我們從會考不論是國內外的考試美國的SAT法國的會考國際的PISA包含台灣自己的會考其實考題的形式都越來越長如果小孩沒有從小培養好的閱讀能力其實他很難應付像這樣的考試就算他不再主流教育他是實驗教育的學生他其實也還是要發展閱讀能力來下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3456.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3477.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
相关的数字我相信部长您是来自学界你一定非常清楚二到六岁是幼儿高等认知功能发展巅峰期而这段时间孩子们在哪里呢在幼儿园来下一张但是不要忘了家庭教育也很重要其实在很多研究当中也看到幼儿的认知数跟家庭社经地位有高度的相关我相信部长这个关系你一定非常的清楚好 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3478.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3502.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
回過來說 幼兒園也好 家庭教育也好如何給予家長在閱讀資源的支持部長我們整理了現在的版本跟我們辦公室的法案版本如果把閱讀的方方面面都考慮進來我們的版本其實兼顧到的事情非常非常多可是在教育部現行的一些辦法或司法當中有比較多都只是輔導性質或是鼓勵性質甚至層面不夠這個部分我們也許可以再討論 不過 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3504.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3532.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
我的版本相對容易今天另外委員的版本很多是要補錢給私立幼兒園家長的部分雖然他們主張是教育選擇權但我要說你們跟地方政府溝通了嗎因為才化法有很多錢從中央撥到地方去了地方政府要不要買單未來還是全部到教育部買單這樣合理嗎而私幼拿了這些錢所謂的家長教育選擇權可是我們卻沒有任何的法規規範這些學校有沒有過度的收費超額的收費不當的收費這些我都覺得很有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3533.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3544.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
那當然我的版本你們現在說法是說建議維持現行條例我覺得這個未來可以討論但是我要主張加錢那個部分我覺得教育部要再跟地方政府多交的溝通下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3545.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3566.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
好所以我想我就實質的建議相關幼兒照顧法在閱讀的部分我認為教育部可以再更加積極後續我們都希望有時間可以討論好來再下一張好再要請衛福部一起出來那署長也許可以先行回座好來關於消車司機匡變學生造成9人性侵6人受害史是未成年5人感染HIV |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3567.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3596.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
部長我們研究相關的法規發現了很多的漏洞來跟部長討論第一個這個校車司機他到底適用學生交通車管理辦法嗎當然是適用可是原來校車主管機關的法規目前他的執法是來自兒少全法的執法學生交通車管理辦法第二條縣市主管機關是縣市政府可是如果來看第十條針對駕駛的資格就規定不可以有本法第八十一條之一第一項各款這個本法指的就是衛福部你們主管的兒少全法 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3596.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3622.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
《兒少學法》裡面規定不可以有性侵害、性騷擾、性霸凌、兒少性教育、兒少性剝削這些司法判決跟行政調查一旦屬實都算對嗎衛福部可是呢現在這個案子它很麻煩的是這個校車它是委外給客運業者承攬司機由客運業者來聘僱是不是算學校運用的人員如果是的話按照《性別平等教育法》第30條運用人員要先去查詢他有沒有在不適任教室資料庫裡頭結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3624.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3644.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
他發生了很大漏洞所以教育部跟衛福部在這件事情上我認為你們應該已經開始研議了可是我們再把相關法規往後看喔來校方現在他不是實際雇主他難以掌握到底每天是誰派車出來如果今天有代班司機他也查不到所以如果是代班司機害學生出了事其實一樣在相關法規都規範不到所以來看校車司機的相關法規我們認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3645.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3666.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
相關的外包承攬管理模式包含校方的責任業者的責任教育主管機關的責任交通主管機關其實都應該要納進去我們具體的建議這麼多我認為衛福部跟交通部你們未來要比較頭痛去處理這個事情拜託你們教育部跟衛福部要坐下來一起開會來研議這個事情來下一張主席不好意思再一下下六分鐘真的太短了 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3667.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3684.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
再來兒少工作證這件事情我要回應校車司機性侵學生這件事情我們在看到衛福部你們公告的佈板裡面關於兒少工作證有非常多的bug回應到剛剛校車司機這一題其實不是只有校車司機出現類似的問題這幾年出現很多運動俱樂部的教練甚至有美術館的導覽員都藉由 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3686.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3700.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
工作之便利可以靠近兒少的機會性侵兒少的事情事情層出不窮沒有停止不論是從地方到中央我們都看見有法規的漏洞所以大家才會一直倡議兒少工作證可是在你們的法規裡頭呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3702.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3716.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
兒少工作證有個很大的bug你們現在把所謂接觸兒少時間很長的包含兒少保勞安置機構所謂兒少服務相關人員你們都納入了你們另外獨立一類叫做兒少工作者你們認為接觸兒少時間比較短的你們現在放在的是第六條105 106 109 116 119 131可是 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3720.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3743.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
衛福部根據你們的第六條兒少工作者的範疇你們現在只把教育訓練照顧放進去了我剛講了消車司機不包括美術館導覽員不包括運動部教練不包括而這些都只是我隨便舉例就可以看見的跟兒少有關的工作者如果你都不納入範疇未來這樣的事件兒少工作者沒有辦法繼續保障兒少我覺得這是一個很大的問題接下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3744.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3758.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
你們不本也把所謂的其他法律規定人員資格排除在外所以未來狼醫狼師狼社工會繼續都被排除在外這是我們兒童工作生要看到的嗎我認為不應該排除但是應該要怎麼做我認為衛福部跟教育部要坐下來討論配套再來還有105跟106的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3762.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3789.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
本来是说不能担任儿少工作者包含性侵儿少性剥削性骚等可是在行政调查方面只有性侵害属实这件事情我觉得问题也很大总之还有包含对儿少曾经有严重身心暴力家暴虐待等行为都不应该成为儿少工作证可以认证的对象但是你们一样没有排除所以我要说现在儿少工作证的样态在卫福部看起来相对保守但是我相信教育部你们在第一线跟儿少接触这么多的工作现场 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3790.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3806.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
一定可以收集到更多跟兒少一起工作的樣態提供給衛福部在修法的時候要一併討論以上我是不是可以快速請兩位回應一下謝謝委員的關心兒少的一個許多的一些發展上的一個權益確實我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3807.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3828.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
未來我們一定在教育部跟這個衛福部一定在這個部分我們一定會有一個更詳細的一個從教育現場裡面了解這個有一個更適當的一個SOP的一個處理的機制包含剛才委員所提的對這些105的第三款裡面應該改我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3829.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
3837.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
我完全認同這位委員所提的包含這個這些公車司機接送的裡邊的委外的我想都應該在每一個關卡要有一個明確的一個這個檢核點我想這才能夠確保我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
3845.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
3872.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
又發展了一個權益好 謝謝部長正向的回應當然衛福部我要再說一次相關現在的寫法真的太過保守我剛剛列舉的這些樣態我們辦公室很樂意在會後提供所有資料跟我們的研究內容給衛福部參考拜託未來在修法的時候一定要把它們納入其中 以上謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝請回座 謝謝下一位林月琴委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
3882.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
3884.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
謝謝主席有請部長有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
3894.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
3911.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
部長早 近期發生教師輕生的事件 再次讓社會看見教育現場承受很大壓力今天想來討論 怎麼樣在學校的校園安全不只是老師跟孩子們都可以在校園裡面學習 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
3914.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
3939.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
可是在講之前因為今天也要請教我們有關安全的問題之前先來針對我們今天即將審查的幼兒教育及照顧法的修法首先先請教部長看法因為目前諸多委員都提了修正第七條就是未來就讀公立私立非營運幼兒園准公的都可以全面免學費而就讀私立幼兒園者那每月還 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
3940.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
3957.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
補助不得低於一萬五千元這項表面上是在減輕家長的負擔可是我們也看到外界有非常多的質疑因為公幼跟非營利跟準工大概都是本來就接受政府的高度補助的話且有商費限制而且本來在 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
3958.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
3982.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
真的這三個都是有高度的監管可是市立幼兒園本身就是對於自由市場定價然後如果大幅度去提高補助的時候沒有同步跟非營利用跟准供一樣有建立收費那個價格的整個監管機制的話那當然我們會擔心過去准供的確後來就有發生一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
3983.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4004.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
譬如說政府貼補的可能又額外的其他所謂的中間上課的時間點由另外繳費的去哪些教室上課沒有的那又是在你原來是政府補助又到哪些地方上課我們已經過去就常看到這種現象了那所以想問部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4006.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4026.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
教育部評估如果過了這本項法規對中央財政的影響了嗎?有去做評估嗎?如果未來政府每年要投入數百億的那個補助私立幼兒園就讀那教育部有沒有配套?那配套是什麼?因為過去我們說准公就還有相關的監管可是都還剩發生一些狀況那這個真的確實是減輕家長負擔嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4030.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4050.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
跟委員報告確實我們這個為了減少這個年輕家庭父母的一些負擔在整個我國這個少子女化的一個對策計畫裡面這一個補助他只是一個選項之一我們更在意的是我們提供一個優質的幼教公托的一個幼教品質所以這裡邊有我們廣設 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4054.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4074.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
公立幼兒園裡面去廣設還有非營利幼兒園還有一個評價的我們所謂的准公幼那這個裡面我們確實透過希望讓家長有更多的選擇也用評價去接受一個優質的一個這個學錢的一個教育那也跟委員報告如果以這個委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4077.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4094.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
我們許多委員所提出的說第七條的一個修正希望能夠全部免費的話那麼整體來講假設私立幼園剛才陳如委員也提到他本來就比較是一個市場機制那如果全部免費然後給予1.5萬的補助的話那 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4097.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4119.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
教育部這裡邊大概每一年還要增加423億的一個支出所以我覺得教育部還要好好的那這一個部分呢看起來就教育部目前來講我們還沒有等於說某種程度這一個整個少子化的一個對策計畫裡面還有相當一部分是跟地方共同合作所以我們怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4120.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4138.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
在這個機會裡面我想是不是還是能夠以我目前的一個政策在未來財政的一個紀律上如果能夠允許當然沒有修法他本來也就可以來執行的所以以目前來看我們是這個建議說我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4141.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4164.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
怎麼樣去加強幼教學前的一個教育品質然後包含我們事實上每年也都對這些准公幼等評價的幼托我們每年也都有做一些教育品質的一個review事實上這去年來看我們大概也有四五十所的這個准公幼 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4165.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4185.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
我們因為平時不符合我們的需求我們是要求退場的所以我覺得安全還是很重要所以接下來就要來問因為除了幼照法修法之外我也要請教的是教育現場的安全網的問題違法事件的調查委員的這個遴選機制那因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4185.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4213.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
我在上任之前就很多次參與可是問題一直在存在尤其目前我們國教署回我們辦公室的資料說那先前跟我說國教署沒有統計資料後來我請你們調查六都的狀況可以看到各地方當然都有我們的專家學者的人才庫可是第一線的工會一直跟我持續反映說實際接案狀況就非常的不平均許多具有教學現場的經驗完成培訓的專家 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4215.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4237.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
長期大概是沒有聘用那你今天領選了這麼多結果為什麼沒有聘用因為就是固定用這個過去我在上任之前就已經發現各地方都有這種狀況就之前也跟你們提醒過結果你們還是持續地方政府還是這樣做如果這樣的話會造成什麼也就是說許多調查案長期由某一些特定的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4239.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4254.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
比如校長律師或是員長背景沒有現場實務的老師去參與的時候那團體大家就又持續還是跟我反映我說我過去已經就已經看到這種問題可是現在還是持續這樣子就你培養了培訓了這麼多人 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4255.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4276.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
你幾乎沒有被聘用那第一線的教師公會派去的授訓的代表重來那是因為公會嗎公會地方政府就不聘用那你們到底有去處理這個嗎所以我想問部長說你教育部怎麼去掌握目前人才庫實際被臨選臨聘的狀況到底有多少合格人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4277.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4300 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
放在那邊十年五年六年七年也不會去有任何那如果是這樣那到底為什麼要邀他們來當專案學者然後就讓地方政府固定就是用那四個人那三個人那五個人完全不會變所以我想問一下你如果確保這種調查機制真的可以納入到第一線尤其老師也沒有進到去當調查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4301.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4317.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
跟委員報告我們在今年感謝委員的支持在今年1月通過了校室會議的一個調查的成員已經有把教師他不是只是列席教師代表跟家長代表都是一個正式的一個委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4318.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4324.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
問題是地方政府通常不邀他們我們今年7月即將要舉辦的全國教育局所長的一個會議我們也會把這個議題納入一個重要的議題那個叫做御用的那就變成事實上你根本沒有辦法達到說教師的權利如果在被審查的時候有沒有被考驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4345.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4374.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
今年跟去年的同时期比较校士会里边确实这一个被投诉的里边受理的从82%已经降到22%我想这是一个非常良性的也就是说我们在整个那包含幼教在这个部分部长请去了解一下然后把资料送给我办公室另外一个就是我要延续上一题就是说如果老师被采取上课的话课程如果可以上线上 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4375.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4403.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
課程那就也是會有一個問題是說尤其是不當對待如果老師有被裁不當對待孩子就去上線上課程你怎麼知道他到底有沒有看那看的狀況又是什麼如果上完兩堂課之後他就會改變不當對待的行為嗎對孩子不當對待的行為所以我不太了解說為什麼因為你上這課根本就有具備那樣能力怎麼可以上線上課程所以也請你們要去檢討這件事情甚至 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4404.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4429.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
基本救命術這種要操作類的義務梗三因為如果在幼教現場如果孩子發生了這些東西這是要救命的怎麼一樣也可以上線上課程有關安全的有關不當對待的尤其是被裁處的老師那這是安全的你都還可以上線上課程那上完他到底有沒有救命的能力啊部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4430.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4448.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
我完全同意委員的一個觀點就是說有許多這個技術當然線上可以先學習但是實務的實際的操作這是一定要演練的可是我們現在都開放線上課程啊我想如果這樣這個我們事後來檢討一定要改善是拜託部長因為這個攸關到孩子演練的部分我們一定是實作 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4453.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4475.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
那另外一个就是我觉得最近我们近期修正的公立幼儿园教保服务人员的请假办法教育部把身心调试价纳入到制度我觉得这个方向很值得肯定可是第一线最大的疑问是身心调试价并入试价计算那怎么调试啊你还是要扣我薪水那我敢去我为了我的 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4478.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4497.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
我為了我的實際的薪水是不是就乾脆就不請假了那實際上還是等於不給薪的價別可是像台南市已經說會給薪那為什麼教育部說不給薪然後你現在造成各縣市給薪或不給薪的狀況不一所以如果當教保人員因為工作壓力已經產生身心這樣狀況我們也認為他不應該在現場去 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4501.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4517.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
帶孩子因為他自己就疲累的狀況那本來就是讓他好好的去休息可是如果請假意味著收入減少的時候甚至造成代班老師的負擔的增加那個其他老師負擔的時候那是不是誰就不會去請所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4519.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4535.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
我們看到今年教育現場面臨到家長申訴的壓力行政負擔跟人力不足的問題那你原本要有這個假事實上是讓他們去接住這些需要幫助的人可是現在變成是說還要用試假這合理嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4537.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4551.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
謝謝委員提醒我想老師的身心調適下本來就是希望能夠老師在一個更好的一個身心狀態下來指導我們的小朋友如果因為這樣我想這不是我們當時的一個當時的一個初衷所以我想這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4558.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4584.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
是不是責成這一個國教署彭署長跟勞動部在一個禮拜裡面把這樣一個問題能夠把它做一個處理因為我們覺得老師已經夠辛苦不要再叫他們還要用請示架所以部長麻煩就是希望你們能夠盤點這個調查那個違法事件輪財庫的運用的狀況提供給我們辦公室這些相關的資料那另外就是針對於就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4585.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4585.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
副市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4615.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4622.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
下一位柯志恩委員好我們先請正部長有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4636.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4664.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
部长好你上次到我们立法院是5月18刚好今天6月18整整一个月的时间那这一个月时间当中呢说是在全国发生非常多的事情包括这个所谓的校事会议闹得沸沸扬扬那当然是因为5月下去也发生了我们高雄来自你的故乡这个老师最多的不幸事件那你看到这么多声音对于校事会议的怒火部长你有没有同理你有没有同理 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4666.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4686.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
我想委員非常清楚我的背景我當然是非常不捨是你非常的不捨但是部長我相信你不捨可是你的行為外面表現出來你異常的冷靜你非常的安靜所以當老師需要有一個教育部長而且跟他們同樣背景出身的時候他們需要能夠被接住但這個時候如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4689.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4712.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
我还记得你一月的时候告诉我们我们在做这个执行的时候你说可能到七月的时候你会来好好地检讨我们这个校师会议现在是六月底了我觉得部长我要是你发生这么多事件的话我会为这件事情做出很多具体的一个承诺然后呢一月十九号的时候老师上去抗议校师会议部长你还记得那时候你对于这些老师的澄清的时候你记得怎么样回应的吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4713.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4739.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
你要记得吗1月19号全部的老师请委员提醒你应该说应该回到学校里面把小孩教得更好不要伤了我们对他们的支持老师当然想把小孩教得更好但是他们面前所处的一个环境很难让他们的心情很难让他们的压力有所宣泄那你部长也特别提到的终极目标就是废除校师会议回到教评会 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4740.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4749.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
部长你觉得我也知道改革很难一步到位你认为什么时候可以让这个校舍会议完全被废止这是你的终极目标吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4750.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4773.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
跟委員報告確實我們本來教師法裡邊但是因為108以後因為之前的社會的一個惡劣的事件108年就把他納入了教師法我了解你不要跟我談這個歷史我很清楚而且我覺得不應該只是因為老師兒童發生事件學生發生事件我們也要保護所以這個是一個制度的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4774.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4787.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
老师跟学生都需要被接住制度的完善很重要但是现在校事会议就发生了让很多老师觉得很委屈很多老师不愿再不你也很清楚嘛因为数据会说话嘛你看2024到2025里面 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4789.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4810.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
这个署长已经告诉我们这个部分了投诉案件1372件受理1000完成调查的还要达到解聘的所实在的仅受2.3%那大家就会认为这个比例这么样的低我们讨论了非常多次我们再看下一张所以呢你上次告诉我说同样比两个年代那个时候是82%现在降到22%但是22%跟你所承案的2.3% |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4816.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4840.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
你还是有九成的差距那这个差距里面表示有很多的老师在这个过程当中他们整个身心都受到非常大的一个波及所以说呢这才是我们今天对于校师会议里面的不成比率老师发出的怒吼面对这样的事情部长时间可以加速吗什么时候可以来终结或是给予一个更好的制度老师都在燃烧啊这怎么办呢跟委员报告 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4843.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4852.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
我對第一線上的一個教育現場並不陌生特別我這兩年包含我星期一還特別到這個恆春工商 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4853.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
4875.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
也就是說我去看基層裡邊確實有一些都會的他面臨的挑戰是大的但是有許多學校裡邊他們事實上校園的一個氛圍是非常好的家長親師是合作的這是我們希望達到的目標部長我們要對焦我們要對焦你不能拿一個我要是能告訴你 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
4875.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
4898.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
目前老師校士會議就引起這麼大的一個爭議我要跟委員報告陳主委員也看到我們這一個也感謝委員的支持我們一夜通過的事實上這樣一個校士會議的整個辦法的改變讓整個學校裡面老師有更多的一些受到的一個支持家長也你校士會議的改變讓老師受到更大的支持你覺得對全國的老師來說的話他們贊同你這句話嗎部長我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
4902.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
4908.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
許多的制度的演化他一定有家長來自於家長的習慣所以之前我跟委員報告的是我對特定的個案我非常的不熟 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
4918.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
4928.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
但是我們也必須要對兒少的兒童協同的一個權益所以我才說制度很重要制度很重要所以我跟委員報告這就是我們希望六月把所有的data出來之前也跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
4934.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
4961.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
你六月还要再继续收集我们七月会有一个关系所以还有一个月的时间不到一个月的时间你们到目前还在搜集资料需要有需要搜集都需要提到一个最简单的离线权你们昨天发函给全国的老师我看到那个公文但这个离线权是我五二九的时候特别把离线权这三个字把它提出来你们也告诉所有的希望能够加强的宣导除非是校园安全重大事件或紧急事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
4962.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
4980.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
尽量让老师不要在下课之后还要去做这样的处理的事件没有错吧那我请部长在这边公开的做出宣誓你支持老师在下班之后除了以上几个重要的事情老师有权可以不要接家长的电话部长你就做出这样的宣誓 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
4981.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
4991.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
這當然我是認同也支持這樣的老師是有權利的因為任何一個人都需要休息除非除非所以除非是緊急的幾項事件當中老師是有權可以保有他自己的私有空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
4998.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5014.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
不是有宣传我们的公文出去就是代表我的一个立场昨天6月17号公去今天6月18号我们20几号就已经提出来然后很多老师都提出来我觉得这是一个正确的方向我觉得是这个正确的方向起码老师不要因为 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5015.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5037.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
他没有接到家长的电话被投诉的时候他还要承受这是一个公开我给予肯定这是一个正确方向虽然有点晚第二个也是我在四大会议我在组织当中四个里面所提出来离线权部长已经公开宣誓了第二个合理的管教权限老师的合理管教权限应该受到一些的保障不是在一次的挫败当中现在很多我还是强调 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5038.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5063.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
孩子的行为孩子的一些的被老师做一些不当处置我们要保护他我们先回到老师但是有些严重的脱序的学生也会影响到其他的班级在美国在很多地方都有说如果让孩子安置抽离离开现场学校来处理被隔离我们目前为止有没有这样子一个措施可以让老师免于直接面对一个他可能会危急的一个情况 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5064.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5087.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
然后这些学生被抽离被安置被做后续处理的时候我们有没有额外的辅导额外的人力对这些被隔离的学生能够做出另外一个辅导有没有办法做到这个层面跟委员报告我非常认同委员刚才的一个提示我事实上已经责成我们主密这个邀集这一个国教署还有学特师整个还有 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5088.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5116.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
各個團體裡面開始去針對學生的輔導管教這一個注意事項我們有具體的16項行為怎麼樣去老師的管教錢要恢復然後有一些行為應該給予更具體的一些支持因為你這些叫辦法管理辦法層級不夠這個部分哪些該規劃說實在你要提高更高的一個規劃這需要時間但是我現在往這方面去處理能夠讓他把他的正當管教不當的管教把他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5117.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5140.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
把它塑造到一個法律的位置這需要時間我同意但是要現在目前要開始做但是你們目前做的有些時候收集資料連一個消失會議從過去到現在每個人都抗議那你還要到目前為止還要再收集資料7月最後的期限還有老師的升薪假如果老師在各縣市當中像新北他投資的千萬元但是呢老師要預約有時候還是沒有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5141.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5159.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
更不要说其他的现实特别是很多财政比较弱势的现实所以我个人认为给老师的身心健康跟权益保障教育部应该定立一个全国的标准这样不要是因为地方的财政不均让地方的老师就受到不平等的不一样的对待这个教育部可以做到吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5162.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5175.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
法律心理智商的一个支援度最后一个就是有关于我们今天的这个所谓的幼教的补助平权部长我只提一个公立私立非营利准公多轨非常多的系统 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5176.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5200.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
同工不同酬我们只问一个下面一个我们目前来说呢很多的时候再往下面一个对就是这个很多的时候呢非盈利的幼稚园的合格教师跟教保员的起薪跟薪资集聚都一样的部长你觉得这合理吗而且很多教保员在任职多年之后去代理幼儿园的老师的时候薪资竟然会被降到第一级你觉得这样合理吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5201.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5217.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
我們幼教老師經過18個學分還有包括非常多的檢定考試實習六個月結果他在非營利其他公立私立準公共都沒有就走非營利非營利的老師竟然跟教保員的薪資級距一樣就這個系統不曉得你覺得合理嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5221.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5243.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
就这个我只准非盈利委员所提这个基本上也有很多的看法委员也知道但是是一个议题所以我们会用一个月的时间找相关的方案好一个月的时间因为只有非盈利才有这种怪的现象我个人认为连私有都不会有这种现象当这么多轨道里面同工不同酬就表示它出现了问题所以署长一个月好不好好感谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5251.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5280.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
好 謝謝委員 謝謝部長請坐下一位有請羅志祥委員有請部長有請部長委員好部長我念一段話你來告訴我是誰講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5281.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5299.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
我不知道哥哥究竟承受了多少痛苦多少絕望才會走上這一條路有時候真的讓人忍不住思考現今的制度是否真的有能力保護那些長年默默為社會奉獻的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5300.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5327.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
一句輕易的指責一場隨意的檢舉外人看來只是程序但對某些人來說卻可能是一點一滴壓垮生命的重量部長知道這是誰說的嗎請問知道上個月25號高雄市一名資深的國小嚴姓教師墜樓身亡 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5328.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5355.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
他的妹妹沉痛的發文痛訴他哥哥所面臨到惡劣的教育現場然後呢一點一滴的壓垮了他的生命這就是今天在最前面為我們奉獻的老師們他們的處遇還有他們家人的心聲 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5357.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5385.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
我不知道部長你看到這一段的心聲我不知道部長做何感想自評論我是非常難過的是啊人心是有所的誰看到這一段痛苦的心聲都會覺得難過那我就要想請教部長這是個案嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5388.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5412.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
我們不希望我們當然某種程度希望他只是個案但是我們更希望從體制去減少老師的壓力包含一些無謂的干擾能夠讓他讓校園能夠讓老師回到他真正的專業秉持他的教育我來告訴你一年內就有三起基層教師墜樓輕生 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5416.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5433.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
那我再跟你講一個更恐怖的統計數字我要告訴部長教育現場到底有多惡劣你知道2021年教職員工自殺死亡人數是多少你知道嗎請問我已經知道8個人2023年10個人2023年你知道到多少人嗎到19個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5445.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5473.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
從2021年的8人到2023年的19人你暴增一倍不止那我再問你另外的數字不知道你有沒有看到台師大學生會以及師資生聯會上個月有公布一個調查數字他針對師資培育生你知道有多少師資培育生認為教師現在是不受社會尊重的七成 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5477.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5499.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
70.6%那有多少失之培育生他認為他們會擔心將來如果執教會遭到投訴或面臨調查八成34.9%的失之培育生明確表達不會投入教職我用這個做開場我想部長就能夠理解為什麼南韓的一齣戲劇 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5503.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5530.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
在台灣會引起這麼大的迴響因為部長我不知道你看過沒有啊我看了第一集我看我是不是看完了我看前五集的時候我心裡想的是這哪是南韓啊他點出的教育現場問題不是南韓的教育現場問題啊他點出的教育現場問題是台灣的教育現場問題啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5532.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5555.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
所以為什麼這幾周大家持續關注教育現場我剛剛從這個數字不小心就看到有多嚴重了多嚴重 已經不是個案了當我們教育現場系統性崩壞到這種程度老師今天要面臨霸凌的恐懼面臨檢舉的爛數面臨所謂的特權的介入各種的壓力 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5563.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5573.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
的時候當他對教育現場產生恐懼的時候我說過受害的不只是老師吧部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5574.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5595.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
是 當然我也跟委員補充說明南韓的這一部片子當時事實上南韓的教師團體也認為它並非南韓的一個教育現場他們也希望不要拍這樣一個影片某種程度它當然有一種提醒部長 我跟你講你講的我也都看過 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5598.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5625.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
處理方式那戲劇化的手法當然不可能啦不可能是這戲劇化手法但是他引起迴響不是因為那戲劇化的手法我就講吧今天我那天質詢次長我就講一個老師只因為在聯絡簿上寫了一句是不是數學要多練習結果就被家長瘋狂投訴瘋狂投訴 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5629.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5656.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
然後報價這劇情一模一樣跟委員報告就這一個委員所舉的例子我覺得那是學校裡面應該要挺身而出支持老師因為老師我告訴你啊誰不想挺身而出支持老師啊我直接問啦很多老師也都反映啊你現在老師的所謂的社會的尊嚴 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5658.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5684.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
在我們今天很多一些錯誤的結構跟制度體系之下你不要講是老師學校當你的制度本身設計出了問題的時候你就造成今天教育現場上老師面臨各式各樣的恐懼啊就像說我看到部長說你沒有做一個改革匿名檢舉不會見到不會接校事會議嘛對不對然後呢所以說 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5686.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5713.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
你們說有82%的檢舉案件進入校事會修正後降到22%嘛對不對是可是我要問啊請問匿名檢舉現在真的不受理嗎我們的新的辦法也感謝委員支持我目前是這樣一個執行但是地方會不會因為有特殊的一些案例這也是我們希望其實部長你剛剛回答就有保留了我當然支持今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5715.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5729.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
你要相關的檢舉你起碼也應該要負原則嘛是心智不受理那教育部我知道你也拿出來做一個改革主要回應可是啊還是會進到考核會啊不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5730.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5748.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
考核會是來自因為老師他確實行為有疏失但是有一些考核會他就是可能只是口頭的一個提醒我要講的是什麼我要講的是今天你光匿名選舉這件事情你現在制度體系之下它還是存在的沒錯吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5749.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5778.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
案例我不敢保證但是基本上我們制度的精神也感謝委員之前的支持那就是我們共同希望他往好的方向來走部長謝謝你啊我希望你從不敢保證在制度上讓他你敢保證不是嗎你都認為這是一個對的方向我也支持啊是可是你不敢保證是因為結構制度上你還有沒做好沒有做足的地方啊那我們就來想辦法讓這制度做足嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5780.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5809.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
事實上我們可以看到今天我們今天為什麼再三的提醒部長就是因為真的我覺得我們教育環境真的是已經受夠了已經受夠了民怨老師的處境大家都知道受害不只是老師啦當老師都害怕的時候受害就是學生的受教權受害就是國家的未來而部長你就是老師最重要的後盾 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5810.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5830.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
再來我想要講一下我們今天審查幼兒教育跟照顧法的第七條我相信部長應該也知道現在家長要找幼兒園其實都充滿焦慮因為它不只是教育的過程它是很多的焦慮跟壓力的集結 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5832.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5854.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
收集資料參觀學校申請放榜然後補有沒有抽中要不要備案下一步怎麼辦這些都是我們今天家有幼兒家長的日常沒錯吧所以我知道部長你們有講一些理由財政負擔是個理由可是呢今天只要是有少子化趨勢的國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5856.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5882.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
都已經大多或服的來去改善今天幼兒教育減輕家長的壓力跟負擔台灣今天如果說生育率比10年前增加個一倍兩倍那我跟你講我覺得沒有這個案子是嗎 不是啊我們比起10年前我們出生的人數是腰斬部長總知道吧那為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5883.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5911.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
因為就是對於家長來說的話那個負擔已經沉重到他們沒有辦法挺住啊一部分原因啦還有很多社會原因啦可是對政府來說我們能做的就是分擔他的壓力嘛這也是為什麼賴清德總統今天他的所謂的要這個搶救少子化開出這麼多的支票開出這麼多的政策那其實就是因為已經見到我們今天十年出生人數腰斬的這種現象 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5914.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
5943.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
所以我認為今天對於說家有幼兒的家長我們今天這個修法的討論就是來當他們的後盾啦謝謝部長謝謝好 謝謝請回座下一位葛禄君委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
5966.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
5981.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
好 謝謝主席有請久違的教育部鄭義揚部長有請部長待會是不是請委員好 跟我們換一下位置幫我代理一下 謝謝動一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
5987.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6003.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
好謝謝部長上次和您在立法院討論教育的議題是整整一個月前5月18號這段期間無論委員會怎麼樣的安排法案的公聽會或審查都看不到您本人 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6005.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6028.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
相較之下我們召委安排電競基本法的公聽會詢答、審查運動部的里昂部長都全程參與請盯各界的意見無論法案審查的過程怎麼樣至少大家對里昂部長的態度是給予肯定的但是我們教育界發生這麼多的問題結果我們的部長變成神隱部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6032.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6052.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
台灣一年內發生四起校內教師輕生事件剛剛也說了很多 羅志強委員另外有師生衝突 老師見血合理的教師管教權 校師會議存費調整大家都在關心但是禮拜一的公聽會 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6054.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6081.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
我們就在講校事會議就在講幼照法結果部長您缺席了上週教育委員會安排學貸三法尋答及審查全體委員部分黨派都非常支持學貸利息的補助同樣的我們也等不到部長您對這三個法案表達任何意見民眾對於教育部長審議教育部積極消極搞不清楚狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6083.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6111.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
整體來講真的是非常的消極這個作為非常不滿大家感嘆說難道真的要像韓劇這樣以暴制暴才能夠處理校園事件嗎部長我說了這麼多其實這張圖真的是為各界去傳達他們的聲音對你神隱的這樣的說法對這個批評你有什麼回應感謝委員提醒我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6113.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6142.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
對我省引的說法我事實上我是沒有辦法接受所有的裡邊的一個政策我們部內都有充分的一個討論那當然我也尊重體制因為許多的體制它並不是這一個一定是要求這一個部長再從過去來講那當然另外另外還有一個審查法案部長也不用來我們沒有法律規定另外還有一個我其實不太願意對外講 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6143.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6166.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
我最近身體確實有一些狀況所以很多時候我其實不願意在公開裡面去做一些我只能講到這裡先祝福部長身體一切平安啦 健康啦但是有需要因為您是公務啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6168.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6187.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
所以您的所有的狀況其實都在代替全國民眾在執行重要的職務所以大我小我以及這些狀況的區分全民對您的期待我想您也應該非常清楚所以我希望這個社會自由公平的情況之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6189.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6200.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
還是先祝福部長一切身體健康但是我們法案的進程我們所有部會都在關心的一些議題真的沒有辦法耽擱也沒有辦法就是說無止盡的等待學待我們要聽到的聲音如果說啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6215.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6225.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
部長休息 部會就可以代勞那我們需要部長做什麼其實大家就是非常看重您 才會對您有期待才會有這樣的一個說法 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6227.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6254.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
後面談論的議題啊每一樣都需要您啊那您如果又說生理健康的狀況我們大家都關心那這樣我們也會擔心重要的議題您到底有辦法花多少的時間在裡面沒有辦法推動當然委員我希望委員能夠具體的說明我們到底哪些政策沒有辦法推動因為我沒有出現 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6255.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6283.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
我想這一個要請問校士會議多丁會的內容你全部看了嗎因為整一夜以後事實上我們校士法學校一直在往好的方向走也感謝委員支持但是你們不能因為這樣抹黑我們教育部長期的努力這麼多老師親身這兩年我們跟地方各團體的所有的一個座談我們不是沒所本的部長您冷靜 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6286.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6306.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
我沒有辦法接受一直抹黑教育部一直抹黑鄭英耀教師會議那麼明確的證據他就往好的方向在改革沒有辦法不但沒有掌聲而且一路在這難道是我們希望對待的一個公務體系這些公務人員嗎部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6310.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6326.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
那我們全產會的代表在這個位置上撕掉這些文件你看到了嗎如果你們往好的方向改革都改到好了會有這些意見嗎會有這些公聽會嗎會有這麼多老師受到傷害會有全國民眾在討論鐵錢教育這樣一部片嗎部長啊您的命 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6340.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6358.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
是命您的健康是健康老師的命是命健康是健康學生的健康我自己出生於七成我對老師的權益我比任何人更在意那就用行動來表現我一直用行動來表現那 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6366.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6379.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
我感謝委員過去的一個很專業的提醒跟指導您說您用專業 您說您用行動當我們要提問的時候 您說我們部會同仁都有在做 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6380.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6408.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
我想全國民眾絕對關心您的狀況也絕對與百分百的祝福萬分的祝福十二萬分的祝福但是我想所有的議題大家都關心下一步而且也會擔心部長您在這裡面具體的思維行動到底是什麼這個校車司機的案件其實現行的學生交通車管理法 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6408.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6433.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
偏重車輛安全年齡駕照肇事紀錄多個小朋友受到HIV這樣的影響這是一輩子的事情這是不是健康這是不是安全這是不是命對司機的前科紀錄卻沒有相應的規定可以查驗你說要我們講出哪些事沒做我就問啊部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6435.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6460.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
你們研議修改了沒有學生交通車管理辦法改了嗎改了嗎或者另訂行政命令來規範校車試騎的資格條件相關查驗流程改了嗎 討論了嗎我剛剛有審略啦 但你知道這件事嗎九個人受害最小才15歲 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6463.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6489.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
已經發生多久了 6月13號耶已經將近一個禮拜了全民嘩然啊然後現在 你站在這裡跟我們全國民眾大小聲我沒有跟全國民眾大小聲對我大小聲也沒有對委員大小聲但是委員對我們所說的所以我們就回到具體嘛你們研議修改了沒嘛多久可以完成啊 還沒改 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6490.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6504.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
我們不能理解 不能體諒但是給你一個回應多久之內可以完成?多久?還要等多久?你看嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6508.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6521.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
跟委員報告部長非常的關心剛才也有回覆給我五秒講完清楚一點這個案件三月份衛福部發現之後再查更糟現在已經三個半月了這給我講完我只要五秒就好 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6524.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6548.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
這個事情從查驗到定期查詢就是禁用的查詢到定期查詢我們都有規範是不是這個案件讓衛福部把相關可公開的部分給我們查的時候我用七天的時間跟委員回報現在因為是衛福部跟行政法院方面單位包含刑事法院把它簽一個密件七天 但是署長有個地方你說不對喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6549.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6576.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
司機的前科紀錄是沒有相關規定查驗的喔你不要全部套在一起喔有了嗎 前科紀錄有相關規定查驗了嗎有 公文報告現在有一個重點 早上部長有講不管是學校自己的或是委辦的部長都已經很明白地講 正用查驗跟定期查驗都要受管束這件事情會相關的法規去檢視我問你已經有沒有有 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6578.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6594.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
在哪裡現在要查的是在今天下班前給委員相關的資料因為是在剛剛你講的這個辦法我們查給委員我們已經查過了只有車輛安全駕駛年齡駕照肇事紀錄健康他的前科是沒有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6595.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6623.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
良民的茶宴这些都会处理委员是不是容许已经处理了吗对对我们把比较具因为刚刚有跟委员报告两件事魏副部今天代表也在我也刚刚全序请教过因为这个是密件这个密件的调查我们尊重但是我们不容许任何一件这样的事情在教育界因此部长刚刚已经有宣示不管是我们的办法或现在的行政措施不管是学校自己办的或是委办的全部都要查好 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6623.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6632.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
七天嘛那我再請教部長署長也在校車司機不是由學校聘過而是公車業者、遊覽車業者或外包承攬的人員有在這個規範裡嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6636.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6662.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
我想他確實在規範裡面確實有所不足啦有所不足啦所以這個事情這個請教育部相關法規修訂一併期限內完成剛剛前面那一段七天後面如果有漏掉的再補足好不好那我希望趕快完成那不好意思 趙偉再給我一點時間因為今天我們關心部長的身體健康啦所以剛剛花去了一些額外的時間今天聯合報有刊登台北大學楊教授提出的意見這一次的案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6663.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6686.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
其實有一個議題說青少年受到性侵害甚至感染性病是沒有選擇可能不向外界求助那我們朝委其實也很關心可能有未成年感染沒毒的一些狀況那目前最大的通報黑數其實我們都沒有看到那我們是這個楊教授有說以瑞典的青少年健康諮詢中心UMO為例子 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6687.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6710.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
那也希望教育部可不可以研議啊去有一個青少年健康諮詢的體系因為現在是如果確診醫院需要告訴家長這個我們理解但對青少年來講這很可能會是一個心理的阻礙那可不可以兩個月內將一些比較好的參考國際的做法研議結果書面提供給本席可以嗎可以好謝謝那另外還有一個很重要的議題這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6712.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6720.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
青年扶擒的準備那這兩天媒體熱烈討論6月11號網路上出現學校青年扶擒動員準備分類計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6722.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6745.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
大家再次嘩然就一上網一找啊文件竟然就下架了就不見了請問部長啊這個文字到底什麼狀況啊然後我們一旦大家都去問啊結果找全網找不到那如果是教育部發出的計畫書為什麼不能在教育部的網站公告啊那還是說部長您因為什麼因素 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6746.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6770.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
可能會不會你連這份都沒看過那我們所知教育部都辭職不給我們這到底裡面有什麼秘密昨天晚上八點才提供每年都有行李因為台灣天災這個地震颱風多青年服勤動員準備分類計畫依據全民防禦動員準備法全民防禦動員去年前年有嗎前年有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6773.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6797.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
暫時支援軍事作戰計畫發給全部的學校有嗎 你看我們招委都吃驚啦這是每年都會每年都有學校都會有一個調查這個每年都有每年都有要暫時支援軍事作戰我們在防災各方面的社會任性我們都會routine的去調查請學校在整個不是 這一份每年都會發嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6798.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6813.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
一模一樣內容嗎內容每年會檢討修正每年都是暫時支援軍事作戰嗎欸我覺得部長啊你們不要不要玩文字遊戲喔上一次教育部發放青年服勤同意書全社會 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6814.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6840.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
任性還沒來啊大家都嚇壞啦這個什麼娃娃兵啊青年要去打戰啦我們不想去講什麼票投民進黨青年上戰場啦之前還講求正義要發一個同意書國防部顧立雄部長也說同意書這個沒有意義你們也停用了那現在同意書都不發了直接就全體都要服刑是不是你寫的啊暫時支援作戰啊不用同意啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6842.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6858.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
跟委員報告其實我們這個計畫是依照權動法還有災害防救法等相關法規所訂定的那它其實是鼓勵青年學生它是支援相關的避難引導或是社區關懷和行政服務等等不好意思喔您讀一下這個字好不好我框起來最下面那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6861.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6885.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
你剛剛講的好像包紮啦 學習啦來 可不可以請你念一下最後框起來的字對 這個是 可不可以請你念一下最後一個是暫時支援軍事作戰對嘛 但是這個是權鬥法的規定 作戰什麼 雙手戰戰場啊但是在我們的計畫裡面是寫的 不用拿手槍啊我們計畫裡面有寫到說不支援軍事還有警察的相關的職務 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6887.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6909.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
我們在計畫裡面有明確寫那請問全民防衛動員準備法裡面有嗎你依據那個法寫的你說我們不要那個法就說你要支援軍事作戰沒有關係我們講解決方法這個學生排除在暫時支援軍事作戰的對象之外可不可以請國防部提出修法把學生排除 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6910.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6934.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
既然你們裡面都說不要了嘛要法令來配合嘛那不然你說不要你不是違法嗎我們只是下面的一個青年服勤計畫它上面還有內政部的人力動員計畫所以它的戰時支援軍事作戰這些是針對其他的人力並不是針對我們的青年學生我們青年學生是排除軍事戰場這些的和平不是一切 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6935.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6954.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
沒有和平就沒有一切啦所以我想這個我們還是希望部長要承諾相關的法令要配合不要要把學生排除在暫時支援軍事作戰的對象不要再搞這些小動作可以嗎部長沒有搞小動作啦真正暫時的說我們是希望高中生相對成熟他 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6955.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6963.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
對社區老人扶弱包紮等等的這些疾難救助的他並沒有直接上戰場沒關係 全民防衛動員準備法沒有排除學生學生的議題就是部長的議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6970.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
6995.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
高中以上他本來就相對成熟他可以有簡單的高紮有一些疏散有一些協助老人等等社區民眾的一些協助那學生到底有沒有在暫時支援軍事作戰的對象之外他沒有上戰場嘛不要一直用上戰場這個去混淆視聽嘛好啦我們回去看這個細節啦最後啦AI方舟人的計畫你們總算交資料過來了謝謝啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
6998.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7025.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
那這個不是國王的方舟先給您肯定但五年總經費117億每年平均預算不到30億那支援最少的智慧教師培育計畫一年5000萬我們一起來努力之後呢我們會提供相關的例子愛莎尼亞哈薩克約旦新加坡阿聯酋泰國怎麼來做AI的公司協力公司的公司力的力師那我們一起承諾來往這個目標前但是啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7025.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7048.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
資源太少了 這個教師培育計畫一年只有五千多萬我給你一個警囊啦 希望你去找這個院長溝通的時候啊 給他說到底三十億是什麼概念 證交稅我們今年開徵 千分之三一天的股市交易就三十五億 一天五千萬是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7049.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7064.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
五千萬是多少半小時的證交稅就有了半小時的證交稅你要只用這五千萬去做一整年的智慧教師的培育完全不夠你就跟他說你就跟院長說一小時的好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7065.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7088.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
讓我們用一年好不好這樣就是兩倍了兩小時就是兩億了好不好所以我想部長我們要一起來爭取該做的我們把它做好那也再次敬祝您身體健康全台灣全世界的老師學生也都要平安健康好嗎我們一起努力謝謝委員好 謝謝時間到 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7089.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7118.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
是不是麻煩一下因為這個有關於校車司機對於小朋友的侵害我想所有的委員都非常關心那有關於剛剛所提到的學生交通車管理辦法那部長也有提到有一個部分可以有待精進是不是一樣是在七天後可以提供我知道你要先開完密件你才可以知道但是是不是有一些初步的草案可以先 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7120.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7137.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
一定要看完委外他都應該要進進去對對對就是說我們先不針對個案基本上是不是這一個管理辦法有一個精進的空間的草案是不是能夠7天內也提供給各位委員先看一下好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7139.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7166.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
好 這個特別拜託那另外呢對不起 最後一個我們那個116年度學校青年扶勤動員準備分類計劃書剛剛有說有新版嘛是不是這個是不是可不可以印下來馬上給委員一份現在給委員一份好嗎再麻煩你印一下 謝謝好 有請陳秀寶委員是不是請葛國勳委員幫我代理一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7171.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7185.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
有请好 谢谢主席请郑一耀部长谢谢部长吴元浩部长好 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7186.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7215.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
今天我們在這裡討論幼兒教育及照顧法修正案其實少子女化是國安危機政府是責無旁貸但是在落實良善政策的同時我們也必須更務實來檢視國家的財政紀律跟核心的錢權分配的問題那根據目前的推算如果將私立幼兒園的補助提高到一萬五千元每年將增加四百二十三億的財政支出如果進一步提高到兩萬元每年增加的負擔會來到六百一十二億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7216.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7229.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
這是一筆非常龐大而且非常就是長期的支出對教育部來講也是深具負擔並且呢其實私立幼兒園的收費是不一樣如果將金額直接定在法條內且沒有設立這個排付條款 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7232.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7253.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
一律是齊頭式的補助一萬五到兩萬呢會有資源分配不均的問題而且要說真正的討論起來這真的是有幼兒的家庭他們需要的嗎本席要強調這真的是有幼兒的家庭他們所需要的嗎更重要的是我們去年通過了這個才化法中央及地方的財政已經發生了根本性的改變 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7254.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7274.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
那過去在中央的裁員已經撥給地方了交給地方政府來自由自主運用那少子女化這個對策的經費向來是由中央跟地方共同支應那既然現在錢已經到地方那麼相關的責任跟權限是不是應該重新與各縣市政府進行溝通與討論部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7277.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7297.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
是的我想因為這個制度一改變以本來我們這個對兒少的一些家庭的一些照顧本來沒有修法我們就本以這個財政區在既有的一個經費我們怎麼去做一些支持對除了這個平價又拖 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7298.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7311.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
然後有公托有非營利到這個準公用這些我們事實上已經目前這幾年來已經增加了提供能夠已經達到提供2到6歲的小孩子 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7312.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7335.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
50萬的這樣一個救血的機會但是我們必須要看因為過去是以縣市做基礎布點去開發許多的這些公幼跟准公幼但是我們現在從368開始從縣市22個縣市我們發現它城鄉還是有一些分配上的不均所以我們從368區這個鄉鎮開始逐步去調整到現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7341.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7355.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
我們目前的手邊的資料已經到只有49區譬如說新北市這個都會的這些台中市新社區的這些原來的學校的布點跟這個溝通的一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7357.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7374.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
這個需求量確實有一些供需不均我們也把他列入了一些重點某種程度我們尊重家長的選擇權但是私立私幼他確實有一定程度的一個市場的一個機制那我們在意的是怎麼樣提供一個好的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7375.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7401.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
這個幼教的一個品質讓家長真正能夠就近滿足他的一個需求所以我們現在已經有幾個區他供需上確實有落差不符合家長的特別在都會區我剛才講台中市新北市我們都列入了在跟地方來協助做重點精準的一個布點不然跟委員報告我們現在全國已經提供52個就學的機會但是我們這些非營利 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7406.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7427.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
這個評價的大概滿足了家長有30將近36萬也就是說私立幼稚園大概有三分之一的家長他可能就近或者其他原因但是我想如果要全部免費這事實上已經政府投入很多因為這樣要讓私立幼稚園一次給1.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7429.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7456.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
事實上不一定是家長他會去讀私立幼兒園然後也可能造成私立幼兒園的一些經費上的一些浮動這本來都是地方政府我剛剛來請教您的問題是說基於就是說財化法之後整個財務的結構會不一樣所以說這個中央與地方的責任跟權限是不是教育部也應該跟各縣市政府重新討論所以我們現在就是要跟地方政府也把這個議題納進來我想委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7459.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7486.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
關心這個幼兒教育這本來是好事但是我們還必須要考慮到地方因為確實以今年來看這個行政院一般補助在屬於教育的跟教育部這一個總共有800多億事實上就直接到地方裡面才化法的一個關係都已經撥下去給地方了所以這一個部分我們也希望能夠跟地方能夠有更多的一些討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7486.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7505.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
好 謝謝部長此外我們現行的幼兒的就學補助跟幼兒津貼是透過行政院的國嫂子化對策計畫以及相關的行政規則來辦理那這樣的方式是有比較高度的執行彈性而且能夠隨著每年的財務狀況跟實際的需求來靈活的動態調整所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7511.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7530.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
有沒有必要硬性的透過法律明文來鎖死這個額度我想這個是應該大家去思考的那提高額度也涉及的重大這個國家財政的這個重新分配在財化法通過之後的地方的財源地方政府的財源是大增所以我們也不能再要求事事就要中央來 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7531.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7555.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
所以本席是希望建議就是說維持現有的做法並且讓教育部跟地方政府有更多協商及討論的時間那請中央政府中央跟地方政府呢通盤檢討錢跟權的這個分配之後再行研議所以本席其實在這邊也要誠實誠摯的也務實的建議主席對幼照法呢今天應該先尋答不要主條 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7556.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7578.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
讓教育部跟地方政府達成共識之後再來排審我們都支持守護孩子我們也都關注少子化的這個議題但是政策的制定應該是要用更嚴謹更謹慎的態度而且這個是不是實際是幼兒家庭需求的我們應該有更多的討論其實在我這邊我接到很多家長他們的需求表達是說他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7579.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7602.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
他們希望說像幼兒園他們二歲專班兩歲專班名額太少班數太少這個很多家長都在反映還有像延托費延托的時間太短或是延托費太高這也是家長的一個負擔所以今天我們要補貼他的學費是不是他需求是在學費是不是真的有理解到家長的需要我想這個需要更多的討論也參佐更多的意見部長你覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7603.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7621.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
謝謝委員提醒 確實我們現在的方向就過去公幼他是沒有延後 課後延後托育的照顧那我們現在一般的學校大概會延到6點 剩6點半有的只到5點 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7623.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7647.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
有部分 那也就地方現在開始也在協助地方政府也也在開始在請這個雙薪家庭家裡面有幼兒的家長包含寒暑假也都有開始鼓勵這個公托這個非營利等等的這個總共就朝看怎麼樣去支持年輕家庭有的到7點 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7648.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7667.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
所以我們必須要納入更多的意見來參佐對那個臨時需要幼兒照顧的以時、以每小時來計也都已經有一些辦法國教署在這個部分跟二十多個地方縣市教育局處也都在合作希望能夠建立一個更完整的支持年輕家庭在幼兒的照顧上 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7669.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7691.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
所以我們必須要有更多的討論 我參酬更多的意見這個部分請主席再思考 再給我一點點時間部長 我想請教你日前有高中球隊降落涉入不當事件 學生挺身檢舉但是卻在過程中發生疑似公務員截圖洩密導致校方得知後對學生施壓最終讓檢舉人因為承受過大的壓力突然撤案這個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7695.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7718.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
那這個情形就凸顯了校園吹哨者保護機制不足以及法治觀念的低落當學生他信任體制勇敢的來發聲的時候我們沒有提供足夠的保護傘反而讓他們獨自的面對來自校方的壓力簡直就是被迫提早面對社會不公平階層壓制這很荒謬但是實際上是發生了為此呢我本期希望教育部能夠從體制面來思考 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7720.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7744.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
我們先不論體育班以及專任教練 運動教練是運動部的全責但是這個是發生在學校裡面的狀況教育部就應該有相對應的補救方法第一個我希望說教育部這邊要落實校園的吹哨者資料保護就應該要加強行政人員跟校方的法治觀念沒有透過這種資料然後再去就是把這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7745.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7760.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
吹哨者把這個檢舉人的資料洩漏出去的我覺得這個本身是公務員的話這個法制觀念真的太低落了第二個部分呢是針對檢舉人短期內突然撤案的這樣的異常現象是不是應該建立一個更完善的訪視及查核機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7761.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7782.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
我們來釐清背後是不是有什麼不得已施壓的情勢而不是就我們直接把它結案因為檢舉人撤案了就直接結案這樣的做法是有瑕疵的是有符合SOP嗎所以教育部是不是應該跟台北市教育局來討論並且加強落實相關標準作業流程不只是台北市教育局 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7782.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7804.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
我非常同意委員的說法對吹哨者的一個各自權益的一個保障我們校士會議你先讓我講完第三個部分本席要求涉嫌對學生施壓的校方或者是校長或是公務員教育部應該有明確的輔導跟懲處的規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7807.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7827.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
我跟委員補充報告我特別取消失會議就是說我們已經對這個各自沒保護我們刻意法條上就刻意行責所以這一個部分來講陳委員說的這個吹哨者的權益沒有受保護他應該在法怎麼樣刻意這個責任我想我們這一個教育部跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7829.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7850.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
這一個世界當然是台北市我們希望22個地方縣市全部都要非常嚴肅來看待這件事情這才能夠保護真正吹哨子的一個前景我們要請教育部往你們省省的研議我們共同為學生打造一個能夠安心發聲免於恐懼的校園環境其實對於校式會議我們要防止爛數我們要保護學生跟老師 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7851.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7872.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
但最重要的本席一直強調就是說親師生之間的信任關係當這個基礎崩塌的時候未來親師生甚至校方要互相建立這個信任的機率就是零所以這個部分我希望教育部要很謹慎很審慎的來處理這件事情好嗎我們一直非常嚴肅的看待這件事情好謝謝謝謝主席謝謝校長謝謝委員部長好謝謝請坐 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7878.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7905.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
不好意思因為剛剛部長有點點有點有點需要喝個茶我想說休息五分鐘好不好我們然後今天中午的話有鑑於這樣的狀況那體恤部長的身體中午我會再安排就是吃飯時間讓大家休息我們先休息五分鐘謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7908.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7908.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8378.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8404.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
好下一位我們國務卿委員謝謝主席有請部長有請部長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8405.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8424.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
好部長辛苦了我看這個教育部其實反映的非常快剛剛其實我們就收到了這個116年度學校青年扶勤動員的準備分類的計畫那我想這不是只有這份計畫而已啦這個前幾天我相信這個教育部其實也出面的來澄清其實關於這個網路上的一些錯假訊息 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8425.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8452.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
那我覺得錯假訊息其實不應該拿來質詢台上再繼續的放大那根據這個全民防衛的一個架構當中其實高中以上的這些學生其實他們擔任的是所謂的民防跟行政支援的後勤的工作那並沒有參與所謂的什麼軍事作戰 軍事訓練等等這樣子的一個勤務所以在這裡也肯定這個教育部馬上就先把這樣子的一個分類計畫馬上就印給我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8454.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8474.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
好那我想呢今天其實就針對三個問題來請教一下這個教育部包含我們今天本來要主條的這個幼教法那另外呢還有校園毒品的問題那另外還有這個我們的校車安全的一個管理的這樣子的一個事件那我先講這個毒品的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8476.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8496.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
昨天法務部其實也正式的決議將這個伊東米子它列為所謂的一級毒品那我想呢校園喪屍煙彈的這個防治其實是非常非常的迫切那當然近期因為這個所謂的喪屍煙彈它快速的一個擴散當然我們也非常非常的擔心就是進入校園 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8497.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8519.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
那當然我們的教育部也宣布了在今年的這個九月就會開始導入所謂的這個唾液快篩的一個制度但是在這裡我想要提供這個教育部可能會有一些在執行面上的一些問題會出現第一就是這個唾液的一個篩檢因為我們知道就是關於這類的這個毒品它的代謝是很快的那也可能會 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8520.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8547.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
產生所謂的這個偽陽性的一個部分那如果我們在做這個拖曳篩檢我們是全面拖曳篩檢還是根據這個比較獨立的這些個案那如果說學生或者是家長他拒絕自己的孩子篩檢或者學生自己本身拒絕那學校應該怎麼處理那教育部有沒有給予方法是第一個問題第二個問題是我們怎麼樣去避免被篩檢的這些學生遭到所謂的標籤化 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8548.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8565.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
那教育部是不是已經有建立所謂的這個完成的隱私保護的一個SOP這也很重要因為畢竟我們也很擔心就所謂的這個偉陽性那變成這個孩子他造成了他其實我們不是在貼標籤但是我們還是要保護孩子為主 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8565.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8583.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
那第三個就是有教師工會他們也反映他們基層的人力那麼恐怕是不夠因為是非常沉重如果接下來還要新增所謂的篩檢或推動或輔導的一個人力的部分那我們的人力是不是充足這個部分我請教一下這個部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8585.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8601.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
謝謝委員關心學生的許多在成長過程裡面怎麼樣去隔離拒絕這個毒品的一個那確實我們現有的一個對這個校園的一個毒品房子裡面我們目前是用尿液 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8602.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8620.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
尿液來篩檢那這裡邊我們也要跟委員報告就是說我們並不是全面篩檢是對那些過去可能有一些細路或者早期我們希望能夠及早發現比如說有一些學生他的在學校的許多的學習作息看起來是有異常那這些我們才會 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8621.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8636.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
有一個SOP而且都是保護個人的一個學生的一個個資我們並不是用未來懲戒他是要早期發現來協助輔導他並不是要把他訴以刑法或者這一個懲戒 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8637.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8667.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
是從教育的觀點要幫助他那剛才委員所提的是那剛才委員說譬如說我們現在在今年我們會配合這個警政署採購五千五千劑的這個唾液是因為從警政署在過去在社區裡邊發現了這些所謂的這個尿液篩檢的這個伊托米子跟這個所謂的唾液有三千多筆的real data真正的 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8668.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8681.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
的data裡面相關性是百分之百那我們知道唾液它就比較方便因為尿液篩檢它還有一些可能會失真的一些或者替代就整個流程所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8683.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8702.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
教育部才會在這個部分跟地方縣市政府我們是不是怎麼樣來協助這些學生能夠快速假設他有異常我們快速來經過一個SOP的方式保護各支然後快速來協助他目前來看這個準確性還比尿液看起來都是完全是一致的 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8703.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8722.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
但是我還是要再次強調因為剛剛提出的這些問題其實我們最主要的就是我們要打造的是無毒的校園而不是充滿猜疑的校園所以其實在保護孩子的這個個人隱私的部分這個部分要處理得非常的細緻才行那第二個問題其實我相信剛剛其實有多位的委員都有提到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8724.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8747.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
上一次其實我提及這個台中又是台中那台中的某個國小2019到2024松信教練對53名的學童性侵的這樣子的一個事件之後那麼當然最近最引起大家震撼跟嘩然的其實就是這個校車司機的性侵的案件那我想根據目前我們的這個性評法還有我們的學生交通車的管理辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8747.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8764.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
那我们都规定要查询这个从业人员他的性犯罪的一个记录但现实是呢许多的校车他是外包给客运公司那虽然业者有说这个通常就是出示这个聘雇的司机他当时如果要来接受聘雇的话要要求他出示所谓的两名证 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8765.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8792.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
但是這位司機他在這四年橫跨四年他依舊在擔任校車的司機那我想這起的案件其實也暴露出這個校園安全的這個接送的環節其實可能出現了一些漏洞那我要提醒的是這個地方的地方政府的教育局到底有沒有落實盤點那在資格審查的部分查核的部分會不會只是流於形式 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8793.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8808.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
所有人都把矛頭對向所謂的中央的教育部但地方教育局沒有任何責任嗎這件事情我想是不是請部長來回應一下我想中央本來這個交通這個主任是中央當然歸教育部 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8809.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8836.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
但是地方我們現在發生的都是屬於國民教育高級中等學校以下基本上都是屬於地方教育的一個全車那怎麼樣這個租車這個不管是外包我我認為他必須要在整個流程上要有一個更檢核的意志機制我想這個部我教育部會跟地方來合作而且應該要扣以責任他一定要 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8836.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8858.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
從這件事情當中其實我們應該擴及全國所有的地方的這個不管哪一個縣市的地方政府的這個教育局我們開始要來落實所謂的這些司機的查核的一個制度來進行這個方案那這個是必須要做的我想對這些已經有坐監換科或者這一違法的這些一定不能讓他有機會來開交通車 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8860.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8885.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
另外這一起事件其實也凸顯到另外一個問題就是他有一些部分的學生因為情感上的一個操控或者是宗教上的一個對話產生這樣子長期受害的這樣子的一個案例那我想這個部分我們在情感教育或者我們在防詐教育還有性別平等教育的這個部分其實我們也看到了這可能會是另類的新型態的一種犯罪的動機 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8887.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8903.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
那我想這件事情其實給大家很多的啟發那我相信其實這個教育是非常長久的長遠的一件事情那也是非常重大的一個工程那這個部分其實我們不管是中央或者我們地方大家一起再朝這個部分再來進行 再來努力喔好 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8903.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8929.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
那今天因為時間的關係喔那在最後其實就是今天我們要談的這個所謂的幼教法的一個修法喔那我想呢近幾年大家都知道我們一直在推動所謂的應對少子化的這樣子的一個對策那目前其實二到六歲的幼兒入園率已經高達了86.4%那麼也代表了這個平價的教保的政策其實已經發揮了一些作用了喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8930.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8947.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
但是呢最近大家在討論這個修法有人就主張是要提高所謂的這個私幼的一個補助那麼要把這個補助呢要來做這個法定化這樣子的一個處理但我要提醒的是家長的權益要顧但是我們財政永續 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8948.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8978.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
不要破壞財政紀律這個部分也要兼顧因為剛剛其實我們聽部長的回應就是說如果我們每一個人要補助一萬五那等於我們的財政要多負擔四百二十三億對不對這個數字如果是補助兩萬那我們的財政可能要多支出六百一十二億好那我想呢當然這個如果政府持續的提高所謂的自由的一個補助但是這收費的監管 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8978.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8992.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
我們有沒有配套足不足夠如果監管不夠是不是有可能變成對我政府在加碼是沒錯政府加碼了學費也跟著漲了但是這個補真的有幫助到 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8993.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9015.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
需要的家庭吗或者是这些会不会最后变成是业者把它吸收掉那我想这个部分其实我们在整个所有的这个私有的收费调整的监管机制到底足不足够我们要怎么样来确保我们政府投入的补助是真正能够减轻家长的负担而不是变成变相的涨价 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9016.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9041.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
因為可能以業者來講以我所謂的這個CEO來講他可能會想說現在家長有補助啦那我就來提高我們的學費啊但最後到底是補到誰我們這個補助的這些不管是423億也好612億也好如果再破壞了所謂的財政紀律到最後其實沒有用在對的刀口上我想這個會變成另外一種 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9041.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9063.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
很大的一個負擔那以現行我們看到的這個行政的規則跟辦理的一個補助其實我們就是要保持它的所謂的執行的彈性嘛是那這個目前其實大家都已經在做了嘛因為我們要滾動式的來調整要因應現在可能物價的一些波動來做這樣子的一個調整這樣子不是已經有具有彈性的一個做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9064.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9092.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
所以我就說我們是不是也應該要精算中央跟地方財政的長期影響不是為了一時的這個數字犧牲將來未來的政策這樣子的一個穩定那另外呢我覺得要跟社會再更多的溝通跟對話因為那天其實在公聽會上其實我覺得我個人覺得其實我有參加那我也有發言但是呢與會的人士其實我覺得聲音是不夠的 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9093.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9114.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
那所以在這裡我想請教一下部長您的看法謝謝委員關心確實如果以現在第七條的一個修法的一個方向它確實會造成包含地方因為就是地方因為這個兒少的許多的這個的一個照顧 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9116.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9143.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
這裡邊事實上是中央跟地方要共同來承擔那如果我們直接的就把它入法那這一個第一個缺乏彈性第二個它可能也會造成一些地方到現在我們沒有一個比較清楚跟地方的一個我想是不是能夠陳委員講的多大社會的對話跟地方還有專業人士一致我想如果破壞了財政紀律然後這樣子的一個資源過度的傾向單一的 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9144.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9153.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
這樣子的一個體系 其實會造成很大很大的一個衝擊所以我想改革應該是穩中當中求進步啦應該要先從穩健開始求進步再跟地方其實還沒有達到一定的共識或者是我們的溝通 蒐集這些聲音其實還不夠的一個狀況之下我建議今天也許我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9169.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9194.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
上午是可以來做這樣子的一個詢答但下午如果要馬上進入主條這部分是不是還請主席能夠稍微考量一下因為我個人認為其實跟地方學者或者是第一線的教保人員甚至教師團體甚至家長其實我們都還沒有完整的一個對話跟溝通在這個部分如果貿然的就叫進行主條我想是不妥的好 以上謝謝 謝謝部長謝謝委員好 謝謝 請回座 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9210.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9218.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
下一位林一錦委員謝主席有請鄭部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9227.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9247.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
委員好部長好首先今天的主題這個幼照法的修正案多數委員的版本都提到說要幼兒就讀私幼的幼兒每月的補助不得低於新台幣一萬五千元那這部分本席有高度的疑議 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9249.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9274.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
因為現行我國少子女化的對策計畫裡面就有針對自行照顧幼兒或者就讀一般私幼的這個孩子要發放育兒津貼跟就學的補助賴總統先前也有提過這個台灣人口對策新戰略要推動0到18歲的成長津貼每人每月5000元 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9276.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9293.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
所以我想透過行政規則其實就能執行相關的補助那直接修法這個名列補助金額那透過立法大幅來增加支出且沒有指出資金的來源這很明顯是違反這個財政紀律 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9296.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9323.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
那好那再者我們現在因為少子化那升學壓力是向下延伸到這個幼兒階段那好有很多的公幼其實面臨到招不到孩子的窘境像我們台南喔今年3月開始招生的時候東區喔東區是我們台南這個最好的這個文教區喔好11所的公共化幼兒園有8所進到二招 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9324.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9342.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
然後有七所招不滿那還有一所缺額達到15名那公幼招不滿這個趨勢近幾年台南一直都有那好我要請那而且假設啦你對這個就讀私幼的每月如果按照這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9345.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9365.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
國民黨委員的版本每月要補助一萬五千元那會不會讓公幼招不到孩子的狀況更加明顯那所以我要請教育部有沒有試算這樣的補助那預計每年如果按照他們的版本每年要增加多少的經費支出那裁員要拿來 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9366.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9376.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
那地方政府願意一同負擔嗎那教育部有沒有評估這樣的補助對於公幼的招生會帶來多大的衝擊 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9382.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9407.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
委員所關心的就是也正是我們想應該要跟地方來問因為終究在國民教育裡面還是地方教育的前線但是中央怎麼樣跟地方合作能夠創造一個真正對年輕家庭有更好的輔助的力量我想這才是一個重點因為我們現在剛才我也跟其他委員做了報告我們過去是提供評價 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9409.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9416.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
這個幼托總共到目前來講已經有這個增加了4000多萬然後有 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9417.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9444.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
提供52萬個這個幼兒可以就讀的一個機會但是我們還是看到一些大都會新的一個都會裡面地方政府並沒有去考慮到因為新興社區的一個的這樣一個需求所以會造成造成有一些家庭他可能還要去抽籤然後等等的那所以我們現在的政策已經改變國教署在這邊非常用心用AI去把 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9445.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9466.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
原來368個區跟縣市現在已經縮減到我們聚焦到剩下49個區裡邊大概還供需上還沒有辦法滿足這個年輕家庭的一個就近就學的小孩子安置的一個需求所以我想這些東西都是非常 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9468.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9482.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
非常直接要跟地方來討論的因為我們說的從大數據我們現在掌握到各區的新生人口是多少然後兩到六歲多少然後幼兒園跟平價跟準 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9483.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9509.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
這些評價跟這個非營利能夠提供多少我們都非常精準掌握這一個數據所以在未來就是我們會把這個數據給地方政府然後希望他們來怎麼樣來協助我想算是一個非常科學的一個這一個人口的一個分布跟右眼的一個部件我們在未來就希望朝一個非常精準的不浪費資源也能夠滿足 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9510.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9535.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
滿足這個家長的一個需求所以看起來我們在看它並不是真正在補助家庭多少錢持平而論它並不是重點我們怎麼樣提供優質的幼兒教育然後能夠滿足家長的需求這才是我們整個在兒少的一個人口對策裡面主要的一個目的 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9535.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9559.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
就承諾部長說的啦不浪費資源怎麼樣雨露均沾到每個孩子的身上這還是最重要的那剛剛有提到就是說因為這樣子的狀況現在因為准工跟非營利的加入現在已經公幼已經像我們台南就已經常常照不滿或還要二招所以已經壓縮到公幼那如果說國民黨這個委員的版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9559.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9581.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
如果又通過的話那我想是一定對現在公幼的招生一定有很大的衝擊那就會造成資源分配不均所以我是認為那剛剛部長也有提到這個要跟因為這個義務教育國民教育其實是地方政府的權限所以我們勢必要跟地方政府做很大的溝通那所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9582.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9609.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
跟討論 而且才化法 修法之後現在中央已經有4000多億給地方所以我覺得地方如果要這樣的話地方也勢必要一起負擔所以我本席認為今天應該就是 我也要懇請主席今天應該是只詢答就好讓教育部有這個時間去跟地方政府做討論 做溝通然後看未來要怎麼走那如果這樣子要實施的話 或者 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9610.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9634.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
地方政府的意見是怎麼樣我覺得這應該做充分的溝通根據我國少子女化對策計畫2.0的報告裡面當中就有提到依OECD國家推動提升生育率的經驗提供高比率的公共化的教保服務是讓父母安心生養子女的關鍵策略 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9635.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9663.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
所以因此本席認為其實我們要持續推動公共化幼兒園特別在都市區人口這個稠密區要持續強化公共化的那個量能而且我們要加強兩歲專班然後擴大發放這個育兒津貼讓公幼還可以延長照護還有臨時照顧的服務會更完整那這樣子的話我們然後還有我們要穩定教保能力我剛剛提的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9664.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9689.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
才是我們再來在所謂的幼托教育最要努力的重點嘛這是一個集中資源可以解決的最好的良方那我現在跟你跟部長討論說那好我們再談到人力的問題因為照顧孩子就要有人力嘛那我去年有質詢過就是說現在公幼有推出說延長照顧的服務那教育部雖然有補助這個家制照顧服務的人力 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9690.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9711.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
但不管原所的規模大小我們現在都只有建置一個來補助一個的家制照顧人力那如果留院的人數多啦那一名的人力顯然是不夠那另外家制照顧服務人力他金融的職別是延長照顧服務人員所以就算他有教保人員的資格 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9712.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9738.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
他也沒有辦法採記他任職的這個教保服務機構的年資喔所以我覺得這會影響到人力投入的這個穩定性所以我想要請教教育部可不可以考慮就依照學校的規模來增加這個加制這個照顧人力然後另外有沒有這個規劃讓這個加制照顧的服務的人力可以採記過去的年資部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9739.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9763.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
我想委員的一個提醒非常有價值我們會來納入這個各縣市的幼教科來做一個把這個意見納進來看怎麼樣讓地方能夠有一個共識能夠有一個更好的一個幼兒照顧配套的一個措施好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9785.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9786.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
謝謝下一位蔡孫酬委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9801.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9813.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
主席好有請部長有請部長委員好部長好 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9816.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9840.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
部長前天上午我在民眾黨黨團的記者會上有媒體來詢問上週迎迎土庫山官網公布了教育部的一個學校青年扶勤動員準備分類計畫然後引發外界很擔憂是不是又要把學生的一個動員照冊 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9843.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9871.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
昨天教育部也有回覆澄清這個計畫主要是校園的安全還有災害應變教育不涉及軍事作戰軍事信念跟軍警勤務但是這一份公文的內容還有講到國軍二級一級加強戒備有這樣的一個字眼就很容易引發很多家長的一個擔心還有社會觀感不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9874.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9887.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
那我要跟部長講說其實學校每年都有在做這樣的一個民航演習也有在做那個你的計畫裡面的一些需要的一些名冊的那個分組 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9889.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9903.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
教職員工做分組 學生做分組一些防災救災防災的一些各組的一個名冊其實都有在做但是因為你這一份計畫裡面就有一些比較敏感性的一個字眼然後會讓家長 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9909.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9919.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
跟社會會有不同的一個看法所以我在這裡是要來跟教育部提醒就是說以後類似這樣的一個公文那裡面的內容有比較有關於比較敏感性的應該要能夠審慎的一個來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9929.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9943.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
那有效的一個溝通公開透明才不會引起各界的一個感受那因為是媒體問我所以我必須要跟部長質詢那我也請部長簡單的說明一下就好 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9947.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9965.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
謝謝委員提醒因為確實這一個本來就是從全民防衛的一個概念我們這些高中生這些中小學生基本上特別高中生我們希望他分組的不僅是颱風颱風或者這個地震或者有一些災害他也能夠協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9966.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9983.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
社區的種種都是一個民防防災跟行政上的支援他並不是要擅長差我想這個部分我們在未來的一個發文上我想我們把它講清楚以免造成這個社會不必要的一些擔憂 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9985.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10008.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
謝謝部長這樣以後我們請教一部在發文的同時一定要注意不要引起很多學生家長甚至因為高中學生本來未滿18歲在對於戰爭戰士來講他還是要受保護的疫情所以以後的志願我們就是要小心為好那 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10011.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10037.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
第二部分我要來請教部長就是昨天我也開了一個記者會就是有關於台中市一個社群中有家長反映國小五年級的學生在校內相約到廁所裡面去使用電子煙稍後有其他的網友也提供了該區的一個國中生在路邊使用電子煙的這些照片 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10038.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10062.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
那在教育部的一個報告裡面總是告訴大家說校園反菸反毒成效良好青少年整體的一個吸菸率微乎下降但是根據教育部提供給我們的數據高級中等以下的學校通報學生違反菸害環制的一個案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10063.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10066.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
在民國112年有203件113年有179件民國114年有18件 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10074.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10091.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
民國今年115年1月到現在的5月31號只有97件但是高級中等以下的學校的學生攜帶使用電子菸的一個校安通報件數民國12年有237件113年有499件民國114年有1692件那麼在這短短的三年 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10101.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10130.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
這個校園的電子煙通報呢爆增了7倍那我要請問那個部長就是我們看剛剛這個圖回到剛剛那個書記的圖我們這個圖我們看違反那個妨礙的一個案件其實它是下降的但是呢學校的一個攜帶電子煙還有呢少年毒品的一個犯罪事實上它是往上的那 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10131.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10147.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
我們要聽聽看那個部長你常常一直在說行政要減量行政要減量但是你看這些也都是學校校安協務處要處理的事情你想這樣有可能行政減量嗎那對這樣的一個的數據請部長你來說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10154.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10174.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
謝謝委員關心我們這個校園裡面的遺害毒品的這個防治那其實像這個攜帶這個部分過去是沒有調查的那因為這個委員們的一個這個要求所以我們也把這個攜帶這個部分也都列入通報所以這裡邊它就會變成 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10176.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10195.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
所有的老師校園的工作者他們也看到了這一個把整個希望能夠一起來防止淹害那把這個攜帶都做了同胞所以那個數據等於基本上校園就減少了黑數啦所以這個部分做這樣一個跟委員做這樣一個補充說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10196.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10207.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
那我也要讓那個部長還有我們教育部了解我們學校本來是一個教育場所那麼現在變成了養成不良習慣的一個場域因為會傳染學生攜帶這個電子菸它是無味的 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10215.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10239.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
然後它也很容易裡面有藏了一些就像一些毒品在這個裡面那因為它無味而又甜味也聞不到所以這個目前在校園裡面也有很多喪屍煙彈這一類的一個毒品都在校園裡面所以我們必須一定要要有來 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10242.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10270.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
怎樣來對於效應這些毒品如何來遏止他一定要拿出一個很有力的一個政策出來各位報告其實新政院最近在修那個毒味調理還有煙害防治法所以針對這相關的包括電子煙還有那個伊托米之類的這樣子的一個毒品然後可以採用唾液快篩這樣的一個機制目前都會修入進去 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10270.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10296.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
然後我們教育部也打算就是在9月的時候可以引入唾液快篩那唾液快篩它就是可以即時性的就是而且它準確度很高到96%以上那它可以即時性的就是驗出像唾液名詞這樣的一些毒品那我們可以及早發現及早輔導那我們也會做好相關的一些配套措施謝謝委員關心我們還是要重於疫防啦你現在這等於說就是唾液的一個篩檢 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10298.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10305.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
沒有錯 但是呢 我們一定是要事前的一個遏止嘛 一個治療就是說預防啦 不要讓這個毒品呢 在學校裡面呢 變成一個我剛剛講的不良習慣的一個倡議 這個對教育部來講就非常非常的諷刺了 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10316.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10342.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
跟我們報告我們確實都會入班宣導還有包含老師怎麼去增能去判定哪些這個電子菸還有一些可能變形的比如說像青少年很喜歡的這個珍珠奶茶甚至有一些已經那個形式都已經變成電子菸而且甚至有一些反帶這個毒品在裡面我們也都在透過老師的增能像高中 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10343.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10371.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
學校一定是全國一定每一班都班班進入去做宣導我想這個預防性的我們事實上也全面的跟地方政府都有在合作是 我知道近期教育部一定要展出你們的魄力因為問題太多了學校裡面校事會議也好現在還面臨到學生的一個讀評的問題我希望教育部真正要拿出你們的政策出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10372.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10387.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
最後一題我要來請教就是部長對於准公共化那個准公幼的一個入學新生的一個標準收費的標準那這裡呢就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10388.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10400.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
我們雲林縣呢在兩年前實施萬農就是實施萬保農的一個政策那雲林縣在兩年前呢它的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10403.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10427.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
出生率是全國最高的那現在我們這個是民眾跟我陳情的就是說在之前我們鼓勵因為少子化的關係我們鼓勵那個年輕人能夠多生產那現在我們萬寶龍的一個政策效應有了都有二胎三胎那你現在本來是 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10430.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10455.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
第一胎是補助1000然後第一胎家長要致富1000然後第二胎第三胎是不用錢的那你現在從115年度開始你第一胎要說3000第二胎家長要致富2000第三胎家長要致富1000那這樣看起來你算一算那是不是生的越多那家長的負擔就越重 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10456.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10472.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
那在這裡呢我要跟部長希望部長能夠對這個案件稍微了解一下然後從善如流是不是呢來考慮一下這個準公共幼兒園是不是有跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10474.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10494.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
有簽約那個簽約是不是三年簽一次那已經到期了嗎如果還沒有到期就不應該改變那如果是到期的話呢在這裡呢也來請教育部考量一下你的配套都還沒有出來之前呢這個是不是暫緩不要實施 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10496.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10515.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
謝謝委員關心這個準公幼那營營這個部分我想我們再來會後再來跟營營地方教育局教育處來討論但是也利用這個機會跟委員報告我們非營利幼而言的他第一胎3000他因為這個價格是 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10517.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10538.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
國教署跟非營利用去談的計算他們的成本所以你會看到在這個您的資料的這個左手邊這邊第一胎三千政府是幫他出一萬五百但是他隨著第二胎減少一千這個是由政府來吸收第三胎他只付一千也是政府來吸收那個差額 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10539.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10565.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
所以你不是說他是越多胎不是啊 你現在115年你改了啦那一個部分我想我們再來跟這個雲林縣來討論我想這不是 我也不能只雲林縣啦當然是要先跟雲林縣討論然後呢如果是全國都有這樣的一個問題就要考量了那我在這裡呢也誠懇的邀請部長還有我們國家署有空到我們雲林縣來好像跟我們的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10568.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10596.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
有一些出入那我們會後再來跟雲林縣再來了解看怎麼樣好 那個部長我們應該要來獎勵雲林縣啦雲林縣在兩年前出生歷是全國之罪是然後你這個直接就打壓打壓了我們雲林縣的這樣一個良好的一個政策那我們希望我在這裡邀請那個部長還有我們國家署企業呢到雲林來看看來走走來了解一下民情 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10596.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10611.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
我想我們會後馬上就會跟銀行線來瞭解這個整個收費上好謝謝那部長你聽說身體不舒服請部長要多保重身體那下午好好休息謝謝委員謝謝我很關心部長先請回座 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10640.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10650.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
請羅廷文委員質詢好謝謝主席有請部長有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10659.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10677.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
委員好好部長簡單扼要探討幾個問題因為前面委員也都常常在跟你在探討這些問題我們找出問題解決辦法現在針對這一份我們116年學校青年服刑動員準備分類計劃網路上刊登出來以後當然家長華蘭 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10679.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10696.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
之前有特別提到這個您有說全面停用那我認為在這一次又把它移花接木又再一次的補上我覺得這個部分就是在騙台灣的家長這個我覺得你們現階段應該要說清楚講明白當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10697.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10719.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
之前國防部也有說那如果有疑慮甚至沒有什麼實際的作為的話這個部分應該就直接把它廢除可惜最後沒有看到廢除反而有出現了116年這樣子的一個計畫我覺得教育部現在說法是只是防災我覺得作為一個教育部長我們希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10720.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10738.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
這些文字用語能夠更加的清楚明瞭不要讓人民在恐慌當中所以請你誠實的回答我們全台灣百萬家長喔我認為有幾個問題第一為什麼防災計畫要直接綁定國軍一級加強戒備 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10739.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10756.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
這些我們往後看他也有提到二級的部分當然我們也會講到你剛剛所說的你們的文字用語那為什麼國軍一級戒備學校就要開設青年報導站進行編組分配勤務這不是動員什麼是動員 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10758.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10781.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
所以我想第三當時你跟我們說會停用現在又說又有116年的一個計劃當然剛剛你們有說啊這裡面有提到一句關鍵的用語你們說軍警勤務排除在外這我以上這都你們寫的你們用的用字遣詞我都幫你們補上了我認為不夠白話文 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10785.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10797.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
你為什麼不直接寫更清楚相關暫時所因應到的這些用語直接寫上去都全面排除 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10799.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10822.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
不要寫得這麼不清不楚那我們看到這邊有一級加強戒備二級加強戒備青年報導站開設演練然後鼓勵青年各項演練當然也有寫到救濟的部分後勤的部分但是我想這些東西有提到動員都會讓家長非常非常的擔憂所以具體的問題請你回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10824.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10849.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
這116年度的學校青年扶擒動員準備分類計畫可不可以寫得更加直白可不可以寫得讓家長更加安心可以嗎跟立委報告不好意思因為我們的這個青年扶擒計畫它其實是依照權動法有要求說我們要訂這樣的一個計畫那所以我們相關的用戶也有依照像國安會還有國防部權動署他那邊我知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10850.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10867.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
有稍微解釋依據法令所以剛剛有委員講權動法也有寫支援所謂的戰情任務的時候這部分會讓大家有所疑慮那你說因為你的用語都是因為國安這邊給你的建議是不是可以有一個解釋版白話文版 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10869.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10881.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
我們之後會再跟那個相關的單位就是做一個反應就是未來的計畫的內容是不是可以讓我們再寫得更清楚明確一點讓家長可以安心這樣子所以再一次的請教部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10883.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10907.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
確定一下我們是全面排除任何戰情業務這些不會讓孩子上戰場是嗎本來這一個前途法的一個精神高中生這些未滿18歲本來他就是這樣一個目的我知道我現在就問你嘛你就直接回答我嘛所以是沒有問題的可以喔他事實上就沒有涉及到這一個所謂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10911.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10924.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
軍隊跟警察的一些情況我想大家家長會擔憂所以我們一定要問清楚講明白啦我想教育部在這個部分也做了很多的一些說明也感謝委員在世的幫我們澄清第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10925.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10939.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
我要看到我們後面這個議題有關於幼兒教育照顧法今天我們本週一的時候下午也有召開這樣子的一個公聽會現場有許多的團體來發表意見有幾個問題想跟你請教一下我們先看PPT我想補助的差距跟教育選擇的受限 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10949.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10962.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
以及不只是现在我们为了这个校事会议我们现在看到教保现场拥有许多的误解压力升高这个问题你有掌握到吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10965.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10985.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
我們一直在朝好的方向在譬如說剛才跟另外委員報告我們事實上延長課後的一個照顧包含這個寒暑假也納進來包含減少學生人數私生筆等等的有許多的配套的措施部長有做一個讚但做的不多 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10987.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11016.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
不會不多啦真的全面因為這個還是跟地方政府可能每個人的標準不同啦對你來說你覺得很多啦對第一現場所有的老師對我們民意代表我覺得不多啦好不好各自解讀沒有關係但是我要講的是現場狀況就是如此剛剛有委員也提到啊我們在講嘛補助差距會不會公幼沒有人讀那你知道為什麼現階段很多公幼許多家長不選擇嗎你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11018.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11038.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
當然就是剛才我想跟私有他課後的延長就課後延長的問題嘛那當然你們有提出相關的計畫希望鼓勵他們來把這個部分補上嘛但實際的狀況我上個禮拜接受媒體採訪私底下跟媒體在聊天也關心他他說他抽到公托了 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11038.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11059.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
我恭喜他他说他可能要放弃了很简单嘛因为他就是没有采用这个课后研托的部分嘛所以他没有办法他只好到师托嘛所以这就是有现在的不管是普助差距造成教育选择的受限嘛所以实际我们几个希望你能够具体的回应我们下一张PTT |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11061.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11085.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
教育的補助要逐步的平權這部分就是今天我們要來探討的那國民黨也很負責任的我們希望建立整個完整的0到6歲家庭支持計畫政策但就現在你的一個報告裡面你也有寫到初步方向是認同但是後續希望有更多討論機會形成共識對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11092.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11110.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
如果不違反這個財政紀律因為我們確實中央跟地方是合作的這個部分我想我們還是要跟地方先所以我現在先問你中間這一題成立教保的調和委員會他就像是調解單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11111.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11126.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
車禍前進法院先調解但是教保的調和需要專業的教保人士來成立這樣子的一個組織有這樣子的教保調和委員會你可以認同嗎可不可以直接回答我可不可以認同 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11129.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11147.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
謝謝趙偉提的這個建議那目前這個師生調和的這個案件的機制那我們看到有一個縣市他在研擬這樣一個配套高雄市那我們會了解校師會議他們也說校師會議前有一個什麼調和機制這個委員所提的那教保的這部分是不是也要納入 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11149.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11173.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
跟委員報告剛剛您提的是一個構想但現在都沒有在中央都沒有所以我說希望你們研擬啊不要只讓各縣市自己做嘛中央為主然後給予這樣子的一個指引鼓勵地方都要做這有沒有機會研擬一下非常感謝昭北直接就很民事的提了這一個那我們會列入跟相關不管團體或地方政府討論的議題部長您覺得呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11176.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11201.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
我想署長剛才也回答的一個很清楚我們會跟地方可以認同嗎我想這個調和的機制很重要啦他們願意來做這樣的我想我們的因為的確我們在公聽會的時候也有很多人在講到不只是補助很重要更重要的是他聽到很多的家長說我不敢生啊因為我怕生出來我的孩子會被虐待啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11202.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11217.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
這顯現出什麼第一我們許多的媒體在個案上放大讓許多的年輕家庭有這樣子的認為普遍台灣的幼教都好像會虐待兒童我覺得這是不對的 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11217.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11234.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
第二 親師之間的一些信任關係衝突開始急劇的惡化所以不只是我們現在的校師會議檢討我認為幼稚園或者是拖音中心這些狀況也一樣啊所以還是回過頭來問你 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11235.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11254.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
我們現在討論到校師會議我也為了這個開公聽會了你也看到公聽會的內容甚至有老師非常非常的生氣難過他講如果我告訴孩子你出了這個門門要關起來要不然冷氣會流失三次 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11255.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11274.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
給大家三次機會大家都還是一樣不關門 冷氣流失 浪費電源好 他這樣子停了冷氣結果被家長投訴請他站立反省被投訴有關老師的一些管教訓適當的班基金我們應該要支持老師的專業的一個班專剛才委員提到教保條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11283.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11299.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
是因為我們的這個幼兒園通常它的規模都比較小不像我們公幼或者學校裡邊學校是可能有幾十班幼兒園通常都是幾班它的老師它的編制所以這個不如我們還是跟地方政府一邊看 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11301.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11307.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
他們法治局有調解委員會也有一個所謂的教保調和委員會由專門的教保專業人員來處理這個調和的問題現在的中小學的規模確實有落差我知道所以要以縣市政府中央要鼓勵縣市政府去辦理這樣子的業務嘛我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11319.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11337.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
以幼保這個部分確實由地方政府來成立可能相對是適當的但你要給予指引啊是對不對你中央主管機關你要給予指引再來這也關係到我們現在校師會議嘛會前會要不要討論要不要調解嘛這都是有關於這部分聯動性的所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11337.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11357.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
我們現在看到我們在對於現在老師的權利有委員提出了離線權柯市仁委員也很關心我們一直在不斷的講在倡議現在在講說所謂的調和那還有一部分我要直接問你啦剛剛我就直接提到了我們公聽會有這麼多老師講這麼多的個案 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11358.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11382.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
甚至上次有一個老師被戳屁股然後呢下醫師不小心推開孩子然後孩子受傷啊他的這個校師會議相關的評比就成立了這個案件你知道嗎好那當然你會跟我講這個舊案舊案現在都有更新的那你也會跟我說我們因為更新了校師會議所以大幅度的減少這個我都知道我現在就問你一句話 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11383.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11390.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
校士會議你說6月要開始把這些數據收集你大概7月幾號要更新校士會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11393.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11415.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
不一定是更新,我們會檢討,但是七月底之前應該會有一個比較完整的輪廓因為我們是今年的一月才新的辦法,也感謝委員會的支持更完整的輪廓,我稱之為更新不為過吧逐步的檢討,讓它變得更好,這不是更新嗎?難道是更舊? |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11416.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11443.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
還是惡化所以如果你7月底前會有一個更新的版本那我7月底前將你的這個新的辦法我們會有一個完整的評估也會讓委員會有完整的評估就會有相對應的作為可能會更新出一個新的版本嘛逐步修正嘛對不對所以我就問你很簡單嘛現階段的校試會議如果我們要求你 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11445.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11468.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
不被查退回請你再修正以後提出新的版本可以嗎如果辦法是好的他似乎那辦法是你想啊不是我想啊所以我請你我現在退回去請你更新請你再逐步的修正再補一個新的這樣可以嗎我要跟我們報告啊如果從現在的數據來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11470.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11496.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
我想委員過去是非常充滿智慧的因為我們現在都往好的方向走那能不能讓他繼續走就說他有沒有一定要更改因為以我們現在的分流制度跟匿名的所有的包含各自的保密密已經這個揭露等於說沒有做到保密也刻以刑責等等所有的東西我想這一個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11497.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11516.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
我保留彈性但是我也要跟委員報告我們一頁修正的目前看起來是完好的讓學校裡面親師更能夠彼此有如果真的是好的禮拜一的公聽會我就沒有看到教師一片叫好啦當然有家長團體說不能夠廢除 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11519.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11547.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
但是我看到的會議是形成的共識是可以更新嘛可以逐步修正調整嘛所以你說1月我上禮拜才辦公聽會大家還是認為還是有更新的必要啊包括還是有許多的團體指出匿名檢舉的部分並沒有完全消失啊包括還有委員指出網路有同學在教要搞老師直接就用相關的消失會議就打到爆 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11548.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11572.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
允許匿名投訴嗎肯定不是嘛有人說用網路的部分他願意我們願意接受匿名投訴嗎所以我們還是希望匿名的投訴這個部分你還是要徹查到底有沒有這些機制完全的嚇阻匿名投訴我們都會做double confirm我們都會去做確認的所以在這個部分我還是跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11573.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11588.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
委員過去的一個支持大家的支持我們心存感激讓我們企業有一個更清楚的整個的一個數據的分析最後我要講今天我們挑出了幼兒教育照顧法來做逐條討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11590.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11616.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
我很难过我们来逐条讨论的时候这个时候才看到我们教育部愿意去对症下药刚刚有人提到不管是合格教师跟教保员的薪资问题到许多团体幼教团体跟我们讲他们现在以前为了久任奖金为了教师薪资不断的在发声都完全没有被重视到 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11616.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11632.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
然後現階段我們又看到了私生筆的問題有時候還是有很多沒有跟進私生筆我們一直有最高的標準可是逐步在進行但是真的有做到嗎現場狀況很多的幼教團體也很擔憂 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11633.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11658.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
跟我們報告我們公立的跟非營利這一個部分我們已經有99%降低到從今年開始從1比15降低到1比12所以是公國跟非營利嗎是是是對嘛那總公共跟所謂的私益這個就是我們一直在講的教育補助逐步平權抽到公國公用就是重大熱痛沒有抽到的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11662.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11688.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
他就是覺得 哇 為什麼我這麼衰所以我們才會說 要所謂的公托公幼免費施托施幼現在在討論要不要增大補助嘛我當然知道你施生比公托公幼已經完成了啊目前這一個評價未達八成公共化未達四成事實上全國以現在台中市事實上是相對多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11689.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11709.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
會後我可以把這個資料給委員我歡迎你提供相對應的資料但我還是要告訴你我們現在教育現場遇到的困境讓更多的年輕家庭能夠獲得到一個更好的一個你的資料我可以提可以參考一下但我還是要再講現在我們面臨到的就是家庭壓力太大 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11709.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11737.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
那現在我們喊出了每個月五千賴清德總統也跟進嘛從原本說國民黨有可能掏空財庫啊到現在賴清德總統跟進以後那我們在喊其他的一些政策的時候我們歡迎大家來質疑來檢討但是我們希望大家好好坐下來討論把事情能夠凝聚共識來幫助這些家庭嘛不要每一次我們在喊這些政策的時候就說我們的政策有疑慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11738.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11750.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
然後換成賴清德總統跟進的時候他就可以那是什麼標準我不懂啊我想不要賴總統說的都是金一羽兩眼我們講的都是好像是把我們的話當成是我們的話都是好像洪水猛獸啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11756.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11782.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
這個真的要特別拜託你剛剛提到的調和委員會校事會議還有身心調事架這些狀況都是教學現場最第一線大家一直在反應的希望你提出解套來說服我們我們可以不用做因為你已經在做了就是因為看到你沒有做好我們才今天負責任的提出方法謝謝委員提醒我想我們會持續的精進來努力謝謝羅委員請部長回座 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11798.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11815.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
好我們現場吳佩儀委員下一位尋答那在黃秀芳委員是他沒有在現場好就在黃秀芳委員之後對啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11817.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11827.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
好 我們在黃秀芳委員詢答完畢以後讓大家中午安排休息然後吃個便當下一位吳佩儀委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11842.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11851.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
好 謝謝主席因為今天聯席會議質詢委員比較多那部長生理不是我今天的問題也比較細節所以我請國教署署長有請署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11859.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11888.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
來 署長好我們今天是討論的是要教法的這個詢答那麼其實重點當然是說我們現在政府要怎麼幫助家長怎麼樣去支持家長減輕照顧的負擔這個我們都很贊成所以我覺得真正討論的重點核心在於說我們怎麼把政府的資源它確實的是挹注給家長那麼過去呢也是在立法院不分黨派大家支持之下現在呢我們的政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11889.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11907.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
投入很多的資源在幼教包括我們有公幼我們有公辦民營的非營利幼兒園我們也有準公共化幼兒園也就是我們邀請私幼來加入準公幼近幾年我們也大力推動的有職場互助的教保中心這些我們都投入資源所以我也非常的支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11908.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11931.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
那麼過去呢 這個准公幼也就是我們邀請私幼加入我們這一個公共化的這個體系呢我們台北市的成績其實做得相當好這個過去尤其柯文哲市長任內因為當時我也在市議會我們議會都支持柯市長卸任之前他做了一個報告就是在他任內呢這八年台北市我們的公共化幼兒園尤其是這個准公幼整個加起來我們從四成來到了七成 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11936.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11956.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
成績很好然後呢私幼也有百家的私幼加入我們準公幼這個成績我真的是要給柯市長肯定那麼後來的蔣市長也繼續延續這樣子的政策那今天我看到很多委員提案就是在問說奇怪政府竟然要補助這個錢為什麼不直接發給家長錢為什麼不直接發給家長然後呢為什麼要搞一個準公幼這麼複雜 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11962 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11977.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
確實我在當議員的時候因為當時這個制度剛上路很多像是員所或家長搞不太清楚規定有很多的相關的疑問來詢問確實是當時大家有這樣子的擔憂但我就看了一下其實我們從過去所有的幼教政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11978.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12001.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
經歷了不同年代不同階段因為有些問題我們有檢討所以有一些演變首先我要問的是說我們在現在的少子化對策還有整公共化幼兒園之前我們過去從2000年開始是不是我們曾經有發放幼兒教育券然後甚至還有五歲免學費等等這些幼教政策這個組長你有沒有印象是的那時候我在地方擔任局長所以委員講的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12007.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12033.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
是2000年的時候當時是發幼兒教育卷就是針對是五歲然後念私幼的我們政府每年補助一萬元的這個教育卷那2010年當時發布一個五歲幼兒免學費就是說如果你是念公立幼兒園免費那你如果念私幼的話政府就補助你一學期一萬五千元這些政策當時是透過修法立法還是用我們這個行政命令就是頒布政策的方式來實行署長你知道嗎對是的 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12038.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12065.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
當時對委員講的大概都有爬出過你是說當時在做這些幼教補助政策的時候我們有修法嗎沒有用計畫的方式來按照時事的情形發展按照家長的需求用比較計畫的方式很快的因應對所以我覺得第一個要理性是說我們幼教的補助政策其實不用修法這個行政命令就可以來處理了再來第二個是這過去當然立法院我們職責是監督也有跟我討論我們來看一下當時立法院的討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12068.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12068.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
這個影片放一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12074.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12089.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
其實我們這種所謂的現金補助其實我們這種所謂的現金補助其實我們這種所謂的現金補助其實我們這種所謂的現金補助其實我們這種所謂的現金補助其實我們這種所謂的現金補助其實我們這種所謂的現金補助其實我們這種所謂的現金補助其實我們這種所謂的現金補助其實我們這種所謂的現金補助其實我們這種所謂的現金補助其實我們這種所謂的現金補助其實我們這種所謂的現金補助其實我們這種所謂的現金補助其實我們這種所謂的現金補助其實我們這種所謂的現金補助其實我們這種所謂的現金補助其實我們這種所謂的現金補助其實我們這種所謂的現 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12104.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12123.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
私幼公共化其實都一直在做所謂的現金補助但是很明顯成效不好而且衍生很多問題包括很多這些現金補助事實上就會帶動很多私立幼兒園你發多少漲多少所以你說要實際達到減緩家長的負擔事實上並沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12127.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12145.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
好這是我們現在蔣灣市長當時的蔣灣委員在立法院同樣就是也是教文跟衛華聯席在委員會的這個質詢的記錄這個署長我想請教當時蔣委員說政府發多少結果私有就漲多少究竟當時有沒有這樣子的現象有發生這樣的問題過嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12147.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12167.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
在那個幼教卷的時候是的確有這個疑慮因此委員可以看到相關的法制上有設計當政府有補助的時候是要做審查的收費審查的是有這樣的一個有疑慮所以法制上有這樣的一個設計那他後來我們為什麼設計這個准公幼的制度呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12168.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12188.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
這樣的一個制度就是直接由政府來協助讓我們去救價格或是相關的六項合作機制找到了適當的源之後家長這一邊只要去控制他繳多少就好原來的一些怕帳多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12189.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12217.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
沒有用在那個幼兒教育上的這件事可以得到控制所以我們去處理到我們補助的部分不會變成有變相的疑慮因此準公共的這樣的一個機制去克服以前的一些困難讓相關的補助比較可以直接真正的協助家長減輕負擔只讓家長負擔多少就好 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12218.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12238.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
這個准公幼現在家長就是每月付三千嘛第二天兩千但是我覺得很重要的是第一個我們要控管他的收費有設一個天花板合作的機制上有控管第二點很重要的是我們要求要保障教保員的薪資因為教保員的福利要好這個環境好我們教學品質才會好這我覺得很重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12239.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12250.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
當時的討論我不在立法院但是今天如果說有委員要提案修法的話我覺得過去經驗一定要參考因為我們教育政策本來就是這樣子都是滾動式檢討的那麼在馬英九總統任內的教育部呢這是2015年的時候當時在立法院第八屆第六會期的會議同樣是討論這個我們今天討論這個幼照法當時你們教育部怎麼說你們教育部說 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12262.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12287.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
就之前發這個教育卷啊通通都發到業者口袋去了他說在民國89年也就是2000年的時候教育卷發多少學費就漲了多少也受到了監察院各單位的質疑那署長我要跟你反映一下因為我請你們教育部提供我資料這個20這等於是20年前20年前監察院有給你們這個調查有給你們提出來過這個建議那你們的報告呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12288.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12313.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
你們當時監察院提給你們建議的資料你們有沒有留存你們有沒有看過監察院只要給我們我們一定都會很認真的回應那會後下班前給委員好這個我希望你們要去把它找出來不管是當時監察院的意見或者是例如我們講市長當時的蔣委員過去立法院曾經有指出來的問題當我們如果要新政策上路之前過去的我們一定要來檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12315.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12338.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
就是說到底有沒有私有大幅漲價的事情發生是這個比例業者比例漲價是幾成漲價的費用幅度來到了多少各個縣市的狀況又是如何呢如果我說我們今天還要再去發錢而且錢是直接發到家長手中而不是像剛剛這個準公用這樣整體制度的設計的話一定要把之前有發生這樣子的亂象 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12339.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12350.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
這些數據我們要很明確我覺得我們才去討論新的政策這比較是負責任的態度否則假設我們新的政策上路結果造成家長反而他負擔沒有減輕結果學費都漲價那我不敢負責啊我們誰敢負責對不對因為我們真正的用意是說政府的資源要來幫助家長嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12357.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12383.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
那所以呢就是我也要拜託這個教育部因為准公化制度上路之後因為真的複雜也受到很多的挑戰跟質疑有基地我請教育部要繼續去進行檢討第一個是說我們准公的要點要滾動檢討那很多民間都有反映相關的心聲例如說這個因應物價我們收費的調整機制可不可以更有彈性第三個呢在准公架構之下我們補助可不可以再提高也就是說現在家長每月要付三千 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12384.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12407.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
能不能讓家長負擔再減輕我覺得這都可以來討論所以我要拜託教育部、國教署還有跟民間還有地方政府我們再就這個制度過去實行的狀況再多加來討論好謝謝謝謝委員的意見在下一期的時候我們都會把它納入是那最後呢因為剛剛前面耿如君委員在質詢的時候有提到台中市的校車性侵案 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12408.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12434.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
我贊同教育部這件事情你們真的要去審慎的來去面對跟應對這是我覺得非常的嚴重欸受害者9人年紀最小的15歲其中5個人感染到了然後呢我覺得最誇張的是這個案件竟然是中央的疾管署在疫調的時候才發現的台中市政府的教育局過去完全都沒有察覺嗎沒有通報過嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12438.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12457.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
然後最早的案件是在2022年欸2022年到現在這四年是持續發生的嗎?就要碰你媽媽去了解啊台中市政府教育局有沒有給你們報告?有沒有通報過?我覺得太離譜了我看這個事情是我們校安的把關層層都失靈了 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12460.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12486.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
委員今天提這個我們分兩點我用10秒鐘跟你們報告第一現在我們尊重疫調了他現在要保護受害者所以他現在是秘密中那我們也很希望跟衛福部合作還是要給我們我們才能知道身份來做很多的防範的處理的設計那委員也追這可能海中市交易局跟你們報告了 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12487.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12501.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
二二的時候是不是就知道這個我們在疫調的這個如果他允許的資料我們會詳查那我們希望衛福部如果資料給我們之後的七天內我們把這所有事情跟委員會做報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12502.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12529.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
按照我們現在法規有前科就不得擔任小車司機台中市政府有沒有負到資格查核的責任中間有沒有去做過稽查接送的這些管理有沒有再去執行第二個從2022年到現在中間有沒有過通報的記錄持續發生的案件都沒有察覺異狀我覺得太離譜了在拜託教育部你們一定要去介入這個事情要審慎的來去面對台中之前教練性侵案 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12530.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12551.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
台中市政府連受害者多少人都搞不清楚狀況在家長要如何放心好不好 拜託教育部請每一家去接受了解這個主題我們會一個一個詳查那只要這個具體的相關的身份給我們之後我們七天內一定回報委員會好 七天內請給委員會每一位委員報告好 謝謝委員謝謝委員吹噓 謝謝好 謝謝有請下一位委員 劉建國委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12566.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12579.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
好,謝謝主席,有請部長有請部長部長,還好吧?會很好部長好,有看過現在這個最夯的韓劇嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12583.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12590.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
這個片子基本上是在講韓國的交易現狀現況所拍出來的一個戲劇為什麼在台灣你會引起很大的迴響?部長的感受是什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12606.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12628.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
我想鐵錢教育事實上就我的信息理解當時要拍這個片子的時候韓國的教師團體事實上是極力反對的因為他跟韓國的現況是不符合的但是我們也知道就戲劇上的效果從過去的無愛無私我們年輕的時候或者心靈捕手或者台灣也有那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12635.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12652.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
我相信他當然都有一些戲劇跟也有一些教育上的提醒那台灣當然以現在的一個整體的一個社會我們看到少子化家長教育程度普遍也都提高了他對小孩子的教育當然也有一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12653.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12678.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
自己特定的一個方法所以對老師來講當然也有一定的挑戰我們只是講說不管對這個事情看法怎麼樣那因為台灣也有受到還蠻大的一個迴響這是其一啦但是台灣現在遇到教育執掌好像也不是過去仍然很嚮往的工作也有所謂的大逃亡這個現狀在持續發生當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12682.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12708.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
台灣的教育當然面對了一些挑戰社會的變先少子化科技產業對老師的一個流動當然都有一些挑戰但是我也利用這個機會跟我們報告我們事實上在許多國際的評比台灣的教育都是名列前茅我相信是更多大部分的老師雖然待遇差一點但是跟科技產業比起來但是我們的小孩子表現 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12709.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12728.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
還是在世界我們得到評級世界評比是OK的但是待遇少了一點譬如說以披薩2020部長已經有講到一個點待遇少一點那等一下我們來討論就待遇少一點我們是要解決問題對不對好那我們面對少子化問題的時候可能我們也要面對少私化的挑戰這部長應該很清楚在這個之前我先給部長看一個數據我從雲林來講112年 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12734.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12762.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
退休的是六三 一一三是六七一一四就已經增加百分之四 一百零七嘛到一一五的時候又增加將近百分之五十就持續的這樣的一個退休的一個比例主點在升高那當時我們有一個粗估就是去年部長表示大約每三十年會有一波的教師的退休潮那最近的一波預計是民國一百二十年左右嘛會不會提早 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12764.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12791.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
部長在整個掌握的情況之下會不會提早我用與你的例子來跟部長講那不只如此你看屏東的今年的國中小的老師就已經有高達224位名的教師要退休我要跟部長表示這個退休場會不會提早這是其一其二是不是牽涉到整體的待遇跟整體的管教環境我們是不是還有更多的提升的這樣的一個面向相關的計畫來做這樣的應應就這兩項就好 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12794.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12809.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
跟委員包括確實這兩年因為確實30年以我們過去預估30年是一個世代的一個這一個這一個更疊那這兩年我們確實看到了一些數據他這個退休老師是 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12810.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12838.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
增加的如果用30年30年理論上民國57年大概應該是在大概在117但是這裡邊有一些活動我們看到這兩年確實有有一些上升的一個趨勢那我們大概也做了一些一些的一些方式譬如說包含公衛STEM的老師公衛專班的STEM然後學士後然後包含我們對教師實習教師的一些工作津貼 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12839.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12857.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
的一些提升從過去的一些五千提升到一萬等等的我想包含老師的一些行政家津貼或者導師會或者一些終點會我們也都做了一些大概我從頭到尾沒有說部長沒有做嘛對不對我們在希望這些東西能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12861.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12880.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
也能夠讓有更多的有熱情教育的有承諾的這些年輕的這些未來的老師他們願意加入到海外現在退休的比例植物園在升高嘛對不對那補進來的老師的比例坦白講好像緩不濟急嘛雲林 你看在雲林115年度的時候國小開區60 入區53國中開區其實是入區70那總共開區134然後入區是123我是有雲線的例子來講啦那全國 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12891.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12908.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
應該也差不了多少那等於說好像都將近落差有10%左右那每年的退休潮又增加40%那相較之下對比起來我看可能在不用到120年左右這個少數化會比少子化來得嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12909.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12936.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
會不會發生那這發生的時候教育部要去如何做營業那你做了很多的配套措施政策的這樣的一個處理這個我都相信我也知道但是好像好像有一點趕不上來這是其一那其二剛剛講到待遇又講到整個職場然後最終我又有一個雜誌一個調查《親子體天下》雜誌今天三月就已經宣布全台國中小的教師信務感普遍的調查是信務指數僅50 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12938.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12966.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
同時有近六成的教師五年內他想要離開那這個部分部長有掌握嗎我們大概對民間的一些關心台灣教育的一些調查我們當然都有掌握有這樣的一個信息所以當然我們掌握如果他是確實是現狀是如此那剛剛部長講的幾項的這些因應的作為足夠嗎還是有需要再做一些更精準的相關的一些配套跟調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12967.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12996.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
我想確實在國民教育這個部分我們內部也在仿佛的去做人力的實施人力的一些義工然後我們也希望各地方政府對教師的一個待遇教育部當然訂了一些最起碼的一些標準那也希望終究國民教育在地方縣市政府我們也希望地方縣市政府裡面能夠怎麼樣去攬財留財有一些更 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12997.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13026.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
更多的一些這些支持的一些機制能夠出現簡單來講就教育部我們現在確保我們的師資培育是遠大於需求量的那但是這些師資符合教師資格他未來他願不願意投入到地方縣市政府我們當然也希望地方縣市政府跟我們一起來努力來鼓勵有一些更好的一些機制能夠支持老師願意去 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13026.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13052.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
當老師不然有許多我們像偏鄉宿舍我們現在偏鄉的老師我們大概普遍把它當作一個重點去帶偏鄉學校的老師的宿舍讓老師也能夠有一些安置包含之前有九任獎金等等的這些我們事實上都一直在努力來全面的來我是在預警是不是會這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13055.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13084.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
五年内会不会有台湾的国中小的教师的这个大桃李草花生啦我是在预警这件事情那我知道部长署长有做很多的相关的这些配套在做处理那能不能在你这整理配套里面必须要再去重新的再去做一个盘整之后再提出更精准更精确的一个方式不然应该不到120年可能这个教师的大桃李草 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13086.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13110.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
會在近期裡面去發生我不願意樂見這樣然後教育部當然要跟地方的教育處教育局要有一個教育是全面的不是只有中央政府的責任嘛地方政府更應該要責任龐大的夫妻更大的這樣一個責任那中央在跟地方還有透過相關的這些水財化法的一個調整之後應該賦予他更大的這樣的一個責任跟量能 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13111.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13128.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
我們才會抑制這樣的事情去不會發生嘛我的期待是這個樣子嘛所以我今天才特別用剛剛的韓劇還有我們國內相關的一些報導來跟部長提醒跟署長提醒是不是可以近期內針對教師尊嚴、教權、待遇 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13130.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13146.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
必須有相關的這個提升的保障的積極的作為那是不是隔兩個禮拜內給我們一個一個初估的一個方向跟內容我們有找時間以後才可以跟部長跟署長再做再做這樣的一個相關的建議跟討論可不可以可以可以啦好謝謝謝謝部長署長謝謝主席好謝謝劉建國委員的質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13160.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13170.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
下一位黃秀芳委員謝謝主席我們請部長有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13181.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13196.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
今天我們討論修正幼兒教育及照顧法其實我們也看到就是說政府長期解決民眾的一個負擔從公立的幼兒園然後總共共化 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13196.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13217.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
幼兒園然後到非營利幼兒園其實我也看到很多家長他們是有感的像非營利幼兒園家長可能一個月只要負擔2000塊甚至有的都不用再繳費所以其實還蠻多家長覺得是有感的今天我們討論針對私幼的補助的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13220.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13236.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
那我一方面也會擔心就是說如果補助私幼最低是每個月補助一萬五的話那未來這個原本這個總公共幼兒園這個原本也是私幼來加入的私幼來加入這個總公共幼兒園 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13237.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13260.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
那会不会到最后原本加入的这些总公共幼儿园的这些私幼他就干脆就不要再加入这个总公共化幼儿园就直接用私幼的这个部分然后接受我们的这个补助那会不会未来这个总公共的这个幼儿园就会被摧毁我不知道会不会这样子那我是不是请部长先说明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13262.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13284.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
谢谢委员提醒确实这也是我们所担心因为整个还是要做整体的一个评估大概是这样是好那当然我们也看到就是说这个私有的部分就是说我们现在看到是这个市场机制有的家长他可能觉得他这个孩子在这个私有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13285.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13312.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
照顾可能更好或者是学习更多因为私幼他可能有很多的社团或者是可能双语教学所以有的家长觉得这样的一个环境更适合他的小孩所以他就选择私幼那有的家长可能觉得我就在这个总公共化幼儿园或者是非盈利幼儿园就在我家附近所以我觉得方便那收费也合理也便宜 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13312.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13332.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
所以我就直接在這個我家附近的這個公托或者是總公共化幼兒園或者是非營利幼兒園來就讀所以我看到就是說像類似這樣的一個狀況就是說我們政府所補助的這個補助那每個月如果以 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13332.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13357.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
目前的這個要修法的這個狀況如果私幼最低補助每個月一萬五的話那因為這個補助都是直接進到我們這個幼兒的這個教保服務機構的金融機構直接開專戶直接進到這個專戶嘛對不對如果補助的話就直接進到這個專戶那會不會造成就是說私幼他直接就這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13360.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13388.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
補助多少然後其實他也這個家長也無感這個也可能發生這樣的一個狀況所以我們也希望就是說針對今天的這個修法我們希望教育部針對這部分應該要好好的去做一個檢討如果是這樣子的話第一個會不會把這個公托或者是我們的這個總公共化的這個部分家長未來我就直接到這個私有就好了我 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13389.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13416.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
或者是私幼他也不願意再加入我們的總公共化幼兒園會有這樣的一個狀況所以我希望就是說教育部針對這部分應該真的要好好的謹慎評估當然我們希望就是說能夠減輕家長的負擔或者是在未來因為這個總公共化幼兒園也好或者是非營利幼兒園或者是公托那他的這個下課時間大部分都差不多4點左右那 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13419.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13437.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
私幼他也許可以配合家長的時間延長照顧的時間所以未來我們是不是也可以再去跟這些總公共化幼兒園或者是非營利幼兒園或者是公托的部分可以延長照顧的時間我覺得這個應該都可以去做一個調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13439.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13461.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
那應該是中央這邊可以來做一個協助啦那另外就是說寒暑假也是所有這個家長碰到的一個問題那寒暑假那這個公托可能就休息那這樣可能也對家長來講也是一個非常大的一個困擾那這個部分我覺得應該也可以來協助那是不是可以請部長先做一個說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13467.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13484.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
我們更在意的是幼教的一個品質剛才委員所提的確實有一部分的這個私幼他的課後的一個等於說他延長照顧的一個時間確實是我們現在公立幼兒園裡面比較不足的 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13484.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13514.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
但是這幾年我們也看到了這一個所以國教署跟地方也全力的在協助請地方跟這個公立輔助幼兒園裡面怎麼樣去延長這一個照顧的時間包含寒暑假也納進來而且也開始編列有一些家長他儘管他沒有讀這個幼兒園但是臨時家裡有可能他平常在家裡自己照顧臨時有事就是一小時的一個托育 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13514.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13533.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
這一個都有這樣一個機制出來那當然我們這裡邊就是整體也跟地方縣市教育局處說是不是請他們也協助因為終究這裡邊的直接的一個管轄單位還是在地方教育局處所以是不是請他們也加把勁在這個公寓 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13534.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13558.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
公幼這個部分能夠更普遍的能夠增加這個延長照顧那當然教保員我們怎麼樣給他一些另外的一些大義家籍等等的這些我們都全面的在做許多的一些討論跟建立制度那目前非營利幼兒園在這個部分是相對是比較友善的所以非營利幼兒園目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13559.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13576.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
還在受年輕家庭的一個父母親的歡迎那我希望就是說家長提出來的這個需求我覺得應該是說整個教育的品質要變好然後托育的或者是我們在幼兒園的延後 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13576.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13603.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
课程延后的这个时间我觉得应该是跟中央跟地方能够好好的沟通那能够将这个小朋友在这个幼儿园的这个时间如果可以配合家长的话我觉得这个是对家长是更友善更好的另外我最后我提一个问题就是说我们最近有碰到这个老师就是一个高中的这个社团的一个老师那他在这个社团教这个表义课 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13604.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13612.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
就是戲劇他在教的當中可能言語有一個雙關語這二十幾個同學當中有兩個覺得不舒服後來在學校的性評會議當中就是說他有構成性騷擾可是情節屬於比較輕微的 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13631.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13649.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
那這個就讓這個這個老師社團的這個老師他演的是戲劇他教的是戲劇他說有一些戲劇他就是有一些雙關語所以讓他也覺得很灰心那像這樣子類似的狀況就是說他也被這個有 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13650.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13671.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
屬於這個性騷擾然後也在這個網站上面也會登錄也會公告嘛那變成說他每一次到一所學校要去應徵的時候因為這個網路上面就看得到說他曾經在某個學校有這個性騷擾的這個案件發生那這個案件他後來跟到另外一所學校他也會再做一個說明所以他會覺得說 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13674.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13682.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
這個造成這個環境對老師來講是不友善的啦所以我也希望就是說教育部針對這一部分如果說 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13685.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13702.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
情節屬於輕微或者是二十幾個同學之後兩個覺得不舒服的話類似這樣的一個狀況我覺得應該也要好好的再去思考一下就是說目前的教育現場其實對老師並不是那麼的友善其實這個狀況還蠻多的另外一個是學校的校長 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13706.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13719.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
就是說學生下課之後到學校外面的便利商店那這個學生坐在便利商店裡面可能就造成便利商店裡面的客人已經有一些影響了 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13721.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13736.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
那就打電話到學校裡面那當時已經下課了那學校就剩下校長在裡面那校長就出來外面就是到那個便利商店裡面去關心這個學生那就是把他原本的這個坐姿就把他請他把那個腳 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13737.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13752.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
放下來那這個學生就回去跟家長講家長就認為就是這個校長是性騷擾那性騷擾後來原本也成立後來這個校長他就生父生父完之後後來現在變成說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13754.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13774.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
属于管教的这个范围所以这个新少老就不成立了所以变成说其实很多的状况我们希望说孩子们在学校能够得到一个好的一个教育那让孩子们能够这个教育现场能够好可是另外一方面就是说我们也希望老师在这个教育现场 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13774.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13803.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
能夠不要因為這個家長的關係或者是怎樣讓他覺得說他要再繼續在這個教育現場我覺得壓力很大所以我覺得目前的狀況是這樣我希望說藉由今天的這個質詢也讓部長還有署長知道那未來屬於這樣的一個狀況應該是非常的多啦所以我們希望就是說讓學生能夠有好的這個受教的一個環境可是老師的這個教育環境 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13805.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13815.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
教學環境也要好我覺得應該是要相輔相成一起那這個教育環境才能共好所以我希望部長針對這一部分應該也要再注意好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13818.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13835.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
簡單回答委員確實有一些老師在教學裡邊他的一個我講教學活動的設計或者這些因為課程上的一些需要有時候也可以先把事前把教學活動裡邊跟學生也說明清楚以減少 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13836.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13860.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
不必要的一些誤解那另外還有一個就是老師在這一個班級經營裡邊我相信有時候我們也應該給老師有一些更大的一些教學專業上的一些空間這我想我們一併來研究那最近我也請竹蜜跟這一個哲成竹蜜這一個開國教組跟協特斯還有地方各個團體 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13862.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13875.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
有關這個學生輔導管教的一些辦法跟注意事項16項的一些具體的行為怎麼樣以時激進我想這我們也都列入最近在緊密的在討論中做這樣一個補充說明好 謝謝謝謝部長請坐 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13891.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13904.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
好 現場我們休息照先前的宣告中午安排休息讓大家用餐所以我們休息預計下午兩點繼續尋答 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
14625.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
14626.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
MING PAO CANADA MANGA |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
15988.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
15989.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
由 Amara.org 社群提供的字幕 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
17336.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
17336.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
由 Amara.org 社群提供的字幕 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
18009.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
18010.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
MING PAO CANADA MANGA |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
18715.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
18715.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
哦 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
18829.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
18831.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
感谢观看 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
19569.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
19573.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
好 現在繼續開會補充介紹下午列席的教育部張亮萬堅政務司長請葉元之委員詢答 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
19598.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
19599.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
主席好 慢慢請部長 謝謝有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
19612.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
19635.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
我相信那個最近教育議題很紅啦那當然是因為現在教育現場出現非常多狀況有國小老師秦深然後最近有一個韓劇早上也蠻多人問你的叫鐵拳教育問你看了沒那部長感覺上應該是沒看啦那是部長你有提到很多其他你看過的戲劇嘛對吧比如說你說 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
19636.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
19650.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
有早期的無愛無私心靈捕手危險遊戲魯冰花等等電影都對你很有啟發性那我想問一下部長像鐵拳教育這部韓劇如果你看你會有什麼啟發嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
19652.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
19670.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
我認為那不是教育啊不是教育我事實上桌上我就有放這個第一集我就有看但是我認為那不是教育不是教育嗎它不是教育當然那是戲劇嘛但是你知道為什麼這部戲劇可以這麼大的引起那麼多人的共鳴你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
19672.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
19700.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
不管是家長也好老師也好都在熱烈討論這部劇當然他戲劇所以他最後會有一個教權局一個督察他用了當然現實生活中不可能用的手段來處理很多問題可是您知道為什麼在台灣會這麼廣泛被討論嗎您知道為什麼嗎其實這個才是大家問你有沒有看的原因不是說你從裡面有沒有學到什麼教育的啟發不是而是到底為什麼這個東西會引起共鳴 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
19702.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
19725.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
我認為某種程度我不認為那叫共鳴是台灣的教育當然面對了一定的挑戰但是大家也有一些案例是我們所不願意碰到部長您不方便講我說共鳴當然是有共鳴因為它裡面演的東西很多都在台灣的教育現場上演 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
19727.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
19749.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
這才是問題啊譬如說第一集講到的校園惡霸這個我也常跟你討論嘛有沒有校園惡霸 有有沒有辦法處理 很難處理譬如說有講到學生因為被老師管教不爽就假造老師性騷擾他有沒有 這個我跟你討論過吧對不對 有學生在網路上講說怎麼弄走導師 只要檢舉他姓名就好也有啊還有有沒有爛訴 有爛訴嗎 家長爛訴嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
19752.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
19770.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
對不對 然後裡面有沒有那個老師選擇親生也有所以其實他演的很多都是我們台灣校園在發生事情那戲劇的效果就是有一個英雄把這問題用一些現實生活不可能出現的方式把它解決了那台灣這邊有發生這樣的問題我們怎麼去解決我覺得這個是大家關心的問題嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
19776.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
19804.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
不能說完全透過戲劇的慰藉而是說現實問題這麼嚴重我們怎麼解決那韓劇其實演的是真實狀況就是他們發生的狀況那我給布朗看一張照片你知道這張照片是什麼嗎你應該不知道沒關係我告訴你這個是2023年韓國12萬老師罷課走上街頭的照片那個時候發生什麼事那時候發生也是韓國一大堆老師輕生 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
19806.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
19822.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
特別是有一個國小年輕老師23歲在學校裡面因為管教學生的衝突後來引起學生不爽學生呢就辱罵老師家長濫訴後來這個老師也受不了就選擇了這種方式結束生命當時啊這2023年從2018年到2023年韓國大概累積了100位老師輕生 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
19828.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
19848.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
非常嚴重所以12萬老師用請假用找退各種方式走上街頭然後把那天定為好像什麼公立什麼教育放假日之類的就定了一個日我是不想要我們台灣走上這一步可是台灣現在狀況其實也是蠻嚴重的 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
19850.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
19875.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
我不知道教育部有沒有去統計啦我們可以看因為這個資料是前幾年的資料有一個老師自殺的一個資料這個是銀山到112啦因為我們最近是最近大概一年就三位老師輕生嘛然後這個是各學制教師自殺自傷的狀況你可以看這個紫色的線到112年 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
19877.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
19903.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
國小的部分就整個上去南韓的問題也是國小最為嚴重所以現在我們大家去思考說怎麼給老師最好的支持保護老師其實就是保護孩子啦我聽到很多是家長跟我反應說怎麼去保護他們班的老師我舉個例子比如說他們班的老師請了五個同學喝飲料因為他覺得那五個同學進步最多 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
19904.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
19909.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
請他喝飲料結果第六個同學成績很好他說老師你怎麼沒有請我喝飲料你霸凌我所以家長就投訴老師 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
19910.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
19934.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
那老師說沒有啊我只是鼓勵他們進步啊家長不管你就是霸凌你讓我的小朋友不舒服結果進入到校事會議老師不甘受辱啊那我留之挺心所以老師是現在請假當中結果別的家長看不下去他說欸這老師很好啊結果就是因為有人爛輸他被調查然後他不來上課我們半邊沒老師啊所以是其他老師來拜託啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
19936.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
19940.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
我這種個案我們只能拜託教育部怎麼去讓整個環境導正不要變成說 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
19942.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
19967.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
讓一些好老師家長支持的老師一個一個離開的校園這是我們想要去解決的問題那我也有聽不管是次長或之前上次您沒來啦沒有來上次那個次長說他說我們現在改革以後比如說本來是要具名改成匿名現在改成具名分流什麼已經讓投訴的案件變少嘛而且成案只剩兩成對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
19968.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
19997.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
你們是有講到這個數據嘛但是這個數據其實不是說有成效啊而是它可能反映一個現象現在很多老師都防御式教學啊那剛剛我講那個請飲料老師他不請飲料就沒事啊他請的飲料被投訴搞到自己流知停心所以如果很多老師知道這個案例那我就不要請飲料了啊不做不做嘛然後有的老師是因為管教學生學生講話管教老師學生不爽家長去投訴 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
19999.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
20009.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
結果被進入校職會那我不要管教可以吧你睡覺你只要不要吵到別人就好你安心睡吧現在變這樣啦那就不會被投訴啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
20010.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
20035.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
所以我是希望教育不要拿的那些數字好像覺得有成效我們要去了解它背後的原因就好比說你不要開車就不會發生車禍一樣老師都防禦新教學當然就不會得罪學生就不會被投訴問題也有可能是這樣那有幾個建議我建議一下部長第一個我們要有一個教育的資源中心就像韓國一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
20037.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
20062.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
現在老師都是獨自去面對這些問題真的 太多老師當被信呼到校士會議的時候都是獨自面對問題上次你們有來我跟那一天那個次長分享一個案例宜蘭的老師被學生從後面捅鋼門捅完之後後來他有推學生學生有撞到後來他就被送到校士會議校士會議最後的結論是說雖然學生有戳中他的鋼門 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
20063.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
20085.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
但是老師也不能夠去傷害學生 所以他畢竟生氣了那在過程當中 那個家長一直嗆那個老師說你被戳中肛門又怎麼樣老師很生氣喔 我寫個黑板要被戳肛門喔家長是這樣的態度那是不是其實應該有人跟家長講說 欸不能這樣子你學生今天會戳肛門 那以後會做什麼其他事情今天不尊重老師 以後會尊重社會嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
20087.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
20114.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
沒有人去講這件事然後行政人員在旁邊非常冷漠所以老師本人覺得沒有人在支持我啊當我今天面對這個現狀的時候是我一個人在面對所以教育部能不能夠不管是學校不支持老師也好或者是什麼單位不支持老師我們要去建立一個教師的支持系統讓教師覺得說大家是跟他們站在一起的我覺得這件事情是很重要那希望部長可以去做啦第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
20116.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
20133.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
校士會議上次我有講它叫做有罪推定這個你應該也知道嘛上次有一次我們在總質詢的時候我有跟卓榮泰院長提到這個事情卓榮泰院長也覺得不能有罪推定司法上是無罪推定可是校士會議的做法就是自證清白啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
20134.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
20161.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
自認清白就是有人這樣指控你請你告訴我你沒有這就叫有罪推定可是那一天那個來的那個朱次長一直說沒有條文沒有條文沒有所以就絕對沒有我不能接受這樣的態度啊條文沒有但是現狀就是有啊那如果有造成問題的話我們就要去想辦法改變啊改進就像您之前所提出來的辦法如果匿名太腐爛我們改句名啊這就是一種做法而不是我們把眼睛摸起來說條文沒有就沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
20163.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
20185.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
部長您可以接受嗎本來我也同意民主法制的一個社會就是無罪推定這也是也感謝委員之前我們這個大家的一個支持我們這個校士會議做的調整校士會議還是一樣有罪推定啊這個要改啦這個絕對不是委員說有罪推定就有罪推定 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
20185.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
20194.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
有 就是自證清白就是有罪推定自證清白就是有罪推定自證清白就是啦 部長我們不要在那邊玩文字遊戲然後再來 再來啊為什麼現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
20204.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
20221.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
校士會議出現那麼多狀況即便你分流然後進入到校士會議大家還是很不能接受除了有罪推定之外就是我們現在是怎麼去看待校士會議這件事情嘛當初人本基金會跟你們教育部在推這個東西的時候你看人本基金會執行長怎麼講他受訪的時候他說什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
20222.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
20240.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
他說哎呀老師你們的冤屈其實也不會對你造成什麼問題啊他覺得不要因為一個無效的投訴去推翻過去親師間的信任哇這個人要站著講話不腰疼啊說風涼話每一個老師被送到校室的會議他最後即便是清白可是過程當中他受到兩到四個月的調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
20241.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
20254.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
他要不斷證明自己沒有這才是我們這麼一步來很多老師因為這樣心灰意冷離開校園所以為什麼現在大家不想當老師結果人本基金會的人說不要這樣子不要因為一個人無盡要投訴 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
20256.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
20275.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
是這樣子嗎校士會議的初衷是什麼校士會議的初衷是你們很擔心說如果有不適任老師校評會失事相互就讓那些不適任老師不能離開校園這個我支持如果不適任的話當然我們站在兒童保育的角度一定要這樣子做 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
20275.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
20301.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
可是這個制度走到現在是大概你除以2%的不適合老師造成整個教育現場的失序那我們當然就要重新來思考一下這個制度還走不走得下去嘛就當初在推動的人說爛樹就爛樹啊老師你不要好像講老師玻璃心一樣而這樣的一個基金會跟你們一起在主導教育政策我真的很擔心啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
20303.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
20321.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
沒有人說第三方機制不好可是第三方機制如果造成更大的問題的時候這就是我們要來檢討的時候了嘛你還是可以維持第三方機制啦沒問題啦可是它的具體做法它的操作方式人選各方面已經要到了調整的時候了 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
20322.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
20343.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
跟委員報告我們一頁就是做了調整啊所以過去的老師代表家長會代表都只是列席我們這一次在第一關的時候就老師代表教師代表也都進來了只有一位社會公正人士三個人來決定這個老師他的許多的行為因為我們也相信大部分老師 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
20344.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
20373.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
他是認真的他不是每一個人都要背我們都是反映現在狀況啦那你就你們一直在辯解反而會讓基層的人更覺得你們離他們很遠我沒有辯解我跟基層老師是站在一起的你繼續思考一下到底有哪些東西可以調整那現在有一個狀況就是譬如說台南有個老師一直被投訴被投訴四十幾次前面都沒事但是家長一直找各種理由一直投訴他 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
20373.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
20399.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
到最後學校跟他講你都被投訴那麼多次了我不處理你跟家長說不過去啦所以最後處理他你去了解一下現在到底教育現場是什麼樣的氛圍你去了解一下什麼樣的氛圍會造成這個狀況好不好不要以就是你們講那個數據沾沾自喜什麼立案已經從八成降到兩成我們從來沒有沾沾自喜對不要完全不因為你們現在都是在講這個東西嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
20401.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
20422.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
那我只聽到很多你們講這個數據的時候大家都不買單嘛為什麼不買單就是數據沒有反應背後的現實嘛所以請你繼續加油在針對教權的維護還有改革校士會議的這一塊或者是說用什麼方式來取代校士會議請你繼續加油繼續努力我想這個心情跟委員是一致的好不好然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
20423.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
20450.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
鐵拳教育主要是反映了大家對台灣教育的擔憂不是說像你講的跟心靈捕手什麼滷冰花什麼一樣什麼啟發性代表你現在還不知道大家關心的議題在哪裡所以請部長繼續加油謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝預言之委員部長請回好 我們下一位資訊的委員吳思耀委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
20456.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
20457.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
謝謝 有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
20467.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
20490.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
委員好部長辛苦了今天您身體為樣依舊在委員會來面對各黨委員的監督大家辛苦了針對校事會議的問題我想多數的委員我們跟教育部站在同樣一個戰線同樣一個立場我們一定要保障孩子 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
20491.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
20505.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
我們更要支持老師所以校事會議要改革校事會議要優化我們要重建校園的信任關係而不是製造校園的對立 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
20506.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
20531.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
我想我們的立場是一樣的但是如果很輕率的就把已經在進入革新或者這幾年來一再的來優化的校式會議的制度一再的去汙名化去製造校園的師生之間或跟家長之間的對立我覺得這就不是改革的真諦我們要理性來看待我們繼續加油 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
20532.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
20549.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
回到今天要修右照法非常遺憾要說立法院的違憲加碼有一樁立委大開支票就逼國庫買單做得到嗎財源在哪裡 下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
20550.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
20574.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
還是要附送一下只要總預算沒有完成審查我這個列表會一直的一直的來提醒到今天為止預算被延到292天我們昨天終於完成了國科會跟故宮的審訊好事往前一步但是運動部跟文化部的預算還是沒審 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
20576.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
20584.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
如果今天的議程能夠進入預算的審查就如昨天審查的經驗很可能今天就已經讓運動部的預算完成委員會的初審文化部的預算也能夠往前推進所以我還是希望預算是民生有預算才能做事 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
20599.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
20621.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
但是呢今天我們看到立委的提案立法委員不做立法院立法委員不審預算立法委員不顧名聲但是爭相的來加碼提法案的修正立法院不做立法院立法院要搶當行政院我們都尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
20622.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
20641.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
但是不能違憲但是不能違反預算法但是不能違反財政紀律法如果一再的用立委的片面修法增加國庫的支出罔顧了財政的紀律無視財政的現狀更何況的本末倒置啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
20642.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
20663.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
你通過了一堆加碼的法案那預算不審預算沒過錢在哪裡下一頁我總整一下這個會期在教科文的錢坑法案A加B加CA是什麼就是上週我們審查的學代三法的加碼版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
20664.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
20688.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
如果照在野黨委員的提案因為執政黨委員的提案被丟包啦所以如果照在野黨委員上週的提案的版本學貸三法會增加國庫的支出是至少100億多則400億B ABC的B就也是教育委員會排審的營養午餐專法 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
20690.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
20712.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
當中的一個條文是要增加國庫中央的負擔就是現在22縣市全免的營養午餐費全部要由中央買單那這樣中央又要增加138億支出今天呢又來了今天排審的幼兒教育及照護法 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
20713.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
20740.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
增加的預算15個版本少則增加400億的國庫支出多則600億所以部長我替您算好了A加B加C光這個會期教科文委員會排審的這些立委片面增加國家支出無辜財政紀律的法案A加B加C至少每年教育部要增加638億到 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
20744.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
20750.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
1138億的支出我的資訊應當是正確的吧教育部有這麼多預算嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
20752.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
20779.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
教育部裁員在哪裡呢而且我們更要說立委要責成政府擴大對人民的照顧可以但是我們來看看現行的制度是沒有做到還是沒有做好我們可以來檢視下一頁行政院正在做的0到6歲國家跟你一起養我們不管是對於公立非營利準公共幼兒園的這些減免的 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
20782.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
20791.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
費用有36.5萬幼兒受惠每年中央已經投入505億對不起是國庫投入505億中央440億地方65億另外 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
20797.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
20811.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
如果是獨私幼或是在家自己帶的20.5萬名的幼生國家每年投入180億第一胎每個月給5000第二胎給6000第三胎給7000而這180億裡頭同樣中央負擔157億地方也要負擔比較少23億 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
20821.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
20832.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
所以國家正在做這是行政權行政權橫著我們的財務狀況能做的我們一定做這是現在進行式您也是推手啊下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
20833.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
20855.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
而未來剛剛是國家正在做這是國家就要做將要做的從0到6歲擴大到0到18歲部長您有算過嗎我們0到18歲全照顧賴總統卓院長希望能夠在國家財政有能力的範圍之內成長今天每個月5000 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
20857.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
20869.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
以2500是直接發給孩童2500是國家替你提撥預存預計每個兒少從0到18歲國家至少投入154萬的照顧而這整體0到18歲國家全照顧的計畫每年國家會再投入1850億 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
20881.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
20899.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
錢當然可以花但是這是行政院去橫著他要面對不同的面向所有的國家財政把優先順序能力可負擔的部分羅列出來的範圍部長這個政策是不是就可以擴大照顧我們非常多的年輕世代 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
20901.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
20922.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
各位報告確實是這樣因為當時從0到6歲到後來這一個擴大到0到18歲他事實上是具有一個教育的一個發展性對每一個青少年他的整個發展未來他事實上是有一個教育的一個教育跟這一個生涯發展上的一些我們看到的一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
20924.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
20953.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
机会包含这一个6到18岁如果我们看到每隔夜2500在未来的这一个政府确保TISA的搭配里边确保他最少的一个利息是不低于银行的利息而且长期这个投资每一个青少年以后他读大学或者高中毕业以后他要出国或者要创业等于第一桶金大概就有了 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
20954.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
20980.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
所以說剛剛回到前一頁國家投入505億加180億還有下一頁國家未來每年再投入1850億加總起來國家對於0到18歲的國家全照顧大概每年就已經會有2500、600億了這是行政權可以針對財政做得到的地方想方設法做 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
20981.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
21003.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
努力做做更多做更好這是行政權下一頁但是現在幼教法的第7條有15個版本立法委員不斷的提案爭相的加碼如果就這個第7個條文裡頭提出來的針對公立非營利準公共幼兒園的學生幼兒 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
21004.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
21015.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
全免他的學雜費每年要再增加150億如果是私立幼兒園在家自己帶的津貼更是有每個月領一萬五到領兩萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
21018.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
21036.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
這樣子國庫會增加每年250億到450億所以我說立法委員加碼很容易開支票很簡單這個案子提一提大家抄一抄每年國家又再增加400到600億更不要忘了在野黨委員另外又提了台灣未來賬戶總體來講國庫要再支出4500億加起來5000萬億 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
21045.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
21063.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
國家再有錢再有能力拜託這些立委提案之前我們好好跟行政部門好好磋商裁員在哪裡做得到的我們努力做但不是這種片面修法的方式一再的增加預算最後一頁了 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
21065.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
21084.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
所以说我是很遗憾的来面对今天幼兆法的提案我们支持扩大对儿少的照顾政策能做的一定做加码做总统也提升了0到18岁的全照顾但是现在的幼兆法第七条有四个问题 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
21084.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
21102.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
就是第一個他無視於現行的照顧措施已經盡可能的普及跟盡可能的全面他無視於這個現況執意要加碼第二個如果要擴大對幼照的照顧其實用行政命令就可以辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
21103.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
21131.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
不需要強制修法可以更精準照顧可以更快速上路第三個增加的經費不是只有中央政府喔立委開支票中央買單之外還有地方要共同支應的部分喔地方政府同意嗎難道最後立委修法之後又如法炮製就像營養午餐一樣立委說好好好以前地方有分擔現在全部收回中央府 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
21132.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
21155.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
国家再有钱也不可能这样用啊最后一个回到幼教的整个市场机制如果针对私校的津贴大幅的加码那么会破坏了整个市场的机制我想我这四点提醒部长您的comment是什么是不是认为这个提案我们真的应当要听看听 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
21155.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
21182.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
更嚴峻 我想陳如瑋所提的確實這樣的一個制度上修法造成的一些衝擊應該讓中央跟地方有一個更全面好好來商量因為影響不是只有中央啊 是所以說我真的希望等一下啊 朝偉看來可能又要逐條了我真的覺得不要為快而快討論也不是過水快轉 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
21183.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
21208.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
如果這些時間省下來 省預算我們的運動部跟文化部的預算今天應當就已經完成審查了所以呢 沒有預算怎麼花用沒有預算 再多的錢坑法案你一樣沒有錢可以動之希望能夠我的喊話讓在野黨的委員能夠再三思大家辛苦了 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
21210.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
21228.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
謝謝吳立華委員謝謝啊對不起對不起對不起對不起對不起對不起抱歉抱歉因為下一位我一直看著吳立華委員抱歉抱歉抱歉抱歉抱歉抱歉真的抱歉謝謝吳思耀委員那個鄭天才委員 持續 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
21231.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
21255.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
也跟吳立華委員特別問下禮拜您當召委啦如果你願意把時間給我的話我來排審預算也沒問題如果你有需要的話因為下禮拜是您我要尊重您好召委有請這個部長有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
21263.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
21286.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
委員好部長好祝你這個健康祝你健康謝謝今天這個教育文化委員會安排陪審這個很多委員所提的這個有關育兒教育及照顧法第七條的修正條文這樣的一個修正條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
21288.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
21312.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
事實上文字或是金額大家都可以討論而不是向教育部直接就說建議維持現行條約因為確實現在的少子女化是國安的危機非常非常的嚴重而這些經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
21314.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
21343.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
因為大家都知道超徵稅收所以行政院不斷的提特別預算最近行政院會又通過特別預算特別條例所以總統也宣布0到18歲所以不是沒有錢而我們要整體的去看我們的教育的政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
21344.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
21369.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
好我們先回顧我們回顧一下九年國教本來是六年的義務教育在民國57年之前開始規劃要提升我們的教育你想想看民國57年以前這個經濟 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
21372.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
21400.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
多麼多麼的困難當時的總統當時的行政院院長為了提升所有國人的教育雖然當時是還要反攻大陸的階段以國防預算為主的那個年代但是會去提出為了提升全國國人的教育 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
21403.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
21430.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
提了這個九年國教如果沒有九年國教聖天才不可能有機會念國中因為我的家庭各方面沒有辦法去念初中我們要去回顧這樣的一個演大的一個這樣的一個制度的建立接下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
21432.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
21458.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
剛講了國民教育變成六年加三年一百零二年制定了高級中等教育法第四條規定九年國教再延長為十二年國民基本教育這個就是作為一個教育部你們要去跟行政院去協調跟主計總處去協調 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
21461.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
21489.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
经费就要立法透过法律的制定能长长久久而不是透过一个相关的作业计划随时会被改变把它制度化长远的规划高级中等教育法102年6月27号公布施行变成12年国民基本教育 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
21492.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
21502.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
一百年六月二十九号制定了这个幼儿教育及照顾法那时候的嫂子离婚还没有像现在那么的严重 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
21505.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
21529.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
所以當初一百年的時候制定了這個幼兒教育機制度現在是一百一十五年了也十五年了也該好好的去檢討何況我們面臨的是少子女化的國安危機所以要向下延伸是應該的應該要向下延伸 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
21531.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
21559.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
12年國教再向下延伸三年還是延伸四年全部都是義務交易這個是一個作為一個交易部行政院要去推動的現在立法委員要提供這樣的一個機會大家好好的討論怎麼樣成為一個向下延伸 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
21561.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
21585.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
所以今天的提案也有這種意味向下延伸的意味而且把它法律制度化這是應該的非常非常重要的部長可以嗎謝謝委員的指教確實我們現在對幼兒的一個照顧我們也怎麼樣去 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
21586.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
21596.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
以幼兒教育的一個品質跟所有的家長減輕他的負擔本來就是我們既定政策現在在努力的一個方向所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
21597.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
21619.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
包含今天在討論的第七條的這個修改也是來自於我們也希望說因為它確實影響的層面很大中央跟地方還有各個團體裡面今天我們不僅只是增加教育預算而已而還有很多的問題面向我們怎樣真正的去貼近 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
21621.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
21642.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
年輕家長他們所需要的一個幼兒教育的一個方式跟品質這才是我們所在意的超徵稅收很多所以才也不是問題就是怎麼樣教育部要去爭取要去協調當然透過立法是最好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
21643.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
21670.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
所以這個部分在討論的時候大家可以再好好的去希望教育部能夠支持最後107年1月11號修正了原住民學生就讀專科以上學校學雜費減免辦法到現在已經有8年5個月超過8年5個月都沒有調整請教育部 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
21671.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
21677.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
能夠編列明年度的預算也就是現在正在籌編現在正在籌編預算請部長務必要在116年度的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
21686.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
21702.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
能夠調高原住民就讀私立大專校業學生的學雜費減免的數額因為這已經是8年多沒有調整請部長能夠回去好好的去籌編預算能夠增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
21704.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
21729.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
謝謝委員長期關心原住民的教育包含他們的協調會的負擔那事實上我們現在也在研議怎麼樣去拉平公私立的這些協會協調會上的一些差距在原住民這個部分好謝謝好謝謝好謝謝鄭天才委員請坐有請武力華委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
21736.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
21762.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
謝謝主席 有請部長有請部長委員好部長好 端午節快樂現在外面大雷雨 大家辛苦了今天非常謝謝羅昭偉安排了又照法的一個詢答因為我自己來自教育界 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
21763.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
21785.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
我很清楚知道我们的法案名称叫幼儿教育及照顾法所以它首重的是提供士林的一个教保服务帮助我们的幼儿能够身心健全发展受到最好的照顾部长是这样吗是 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
21786.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
21803.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
那部長我跟您說我不要講太遠因為我們做民意代表其實接受陳情是日常但是呢今年的大年初一請您看一下這張照片這是大年初一的一大早 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
21804.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
21832.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
我呢去了一個我沒有去過的不認識的一個家庭對著那四個孩子送禮物給他們給他們發紅包然後呢為他的爸爸媽媽我在那個地方示範要怎麼帶小孩爸爸媽媽看了好開心覺得自己的孩子好聰明那我要跟部長講這就是我接受的陳情 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
21834.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
21863.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
為什麼呢 因為寒假的時候 您都知道學校會做課後照顧有一個幼兒園的園長陳琴他跟我講說委員 你可不可以重視一下這個情形他說這個樣的情形越來越嚴重他說自從發了育兒津貼之後有很多孩子該去上學讀書了父母不給他上學 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
21865.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
21889.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
那因為我已經離這個年代很遠了所以我問他說為什麼他說因為爸爸媽媽捨不得育兒津貼所以捨不得給孩子去上學我說育兒津貼很多嗎但是他說父母很需要那是發生什麼事情呢這個最小的弟弟啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
21890.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
21917.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
因為姐姐哥哥都讀國小了剩下他一個人在家裡所以呢他每天要走三四十分鐘自己走到學校在那邊等哥哥姐姐放學等放學之後再開開心心的跟哥哥姐姐一起回家那這個幼兒園園長看不下去要請他進來教室一起上課小朋友也不要也不敢 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
21919.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
21945.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
那他問我怎麼辦我說法的事情先擱一邊我們以實際的行動去關心所以呢我在大年初一特別帶著紅包一人兩百塊帶著禮盒我去他們家拜年我說我也是校長我說你們的小朋友好可愛他也不知道我是立法委員我在那個地方餵他的四個小孩子 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
21946.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
21971.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
在那個地方做示範教學你看看園長告訴我六月的時候好消息立委前去關懷的孩子今天來六兒園報名了因為他的爸爸媽媽知道受教育很重要但是這件事情是在去年的四月園長就有跟社會處反應但是都沒有獲得合理的回應部長你知道為什麼嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
21973.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
21997.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
因為學前教育不是義務教育無法可管就算爸爸媽媽為了領育而今天他不願意讓小孩子去上學無法可管因為不是義務教育這個你應該很清楚所以為什麼我這樣子講我覺得我們很關心的 你看在另外一篇 你看 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
21999.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
22025.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
我常常接你看又是為了領補助你看學校老師告訴我發展遲緩兒可是家長要的都是育兒津貼所以我蠻難過的甚至很多人還吵著有的陳情父母為了要領育兒津貼逼學校開離園證名單好所以我想請教一下部長我們現在來看一下全國的教保服務機構的數量 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
22027.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
22032.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
這是我跟國教署所知公立幼兒園2429間佔比是35.2%非營利的419間準公共的2096間也就是30.4%私立的1803間也就是26.1% |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
22052.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
22069.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
職場的互助教保中心134間原住民的部落互助教保中心14間為什麼我要這樣子講我想要請教一下我看到115年的預算中心這個地方你看看從108年109年110年111年一直到114年我們看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
22075.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
22084.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
公立幼兒園他被裁罰的比例非營利的比例私立的比例私立108年被裁罰是98.59%109年99.35%甚至有同一年度同一個違規事項被裁罰三次以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
22097.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
22123.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
我要說的其實我不是那個我真的很願意為了讓父母願意生孩子養得起孩子真的一萬五我都覺得可以我不是在講這個我是在講我們幼兒教育及照顧的目的是為了讓每一個孩子能夠獲得應得的教保服務讓我們國家的未來主人翁能夠健全的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
22124.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
22135.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
所以我看到那些需要早療的孩子身心障礙的孩子這幾年毀了毀了好多孩子都在家 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
22138.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
22162.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
我非常的傷心這個問題我已經是呼籲很多次也很多的學校老師在反映這件事情但是因為它不是義務教育我們也不知道該怎麼辦所以這個部分我希望我們能夠去思考我們各個性質幼兒園的比例我們公共量能的目標我看到目前呢是來到 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
22166.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
22186.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
64%這個跟國際上這些OECD的這些國家相比是相同的水準甚至是更高的水準所以我們目前我們到底是要做什麼我覺得很多的事情更需要我就一問一答好了舉個例子假設我們真的在 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
22187.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
22216.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
幼兒照顧法第7條去修正我先講我沒有反對其實這些幼教團體也有來辦公室跟我我很支持我真的覺得養孩子很辛苦現在物價高漲我沒有反對但是我在意的是我請教一下如果這邊改寫說接受私立幼兒園服務者每位幼兒每月補助不得低於新台幣15000元我請教一下這一些接受私立幼兒園服務的補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
22217.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
22235.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
是中央買單還是地方買單共同分擔所以會面臨到地方的態度對不對那給誰呢是直接給學校還是給父母 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
22240.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
22251.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
因為我們撈不到他去讀公立幼兒園準公共還有這些所謂的非營利他只要撈不到他就認定他就是一萬五要入帳對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
22253.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
22276.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
所以他沒有就學也是被認定一萬五入帳好所以現在當我們變成一萬五的時候我擔憂的是什麼我贊成但是配套做事要做好你看看目前的公幼因為政府直接入五千假設是第一胎五千可能家長還會自付一千塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
22277.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
22303.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
但是一旦變成政府是一萬五補助的時候家長都不用付了嘛對不對好那非營利呢如果他自付一般來講是自付兩千元準公用自付三千元一般來講是這樣那如果我們補助到一萬五的時候部長你應該可以想像的到我們的公用非營利準公用會怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
22311.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
22328.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
因為你也就是補助五千啊不用繳錢啊但是他知道如果他不讀或去私立他有一萬五我們這些公幼 非營利準公幼會怎麼樣我最起碼可以想像準公幼一定會趕快回到私立幼兒園那家長的心態呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
22330.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
22354.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
所以我希望說教育部不要落入我們是存好心要做好事結果反而是存好心最後變成對幼兒不利這個是我必須要提醒的地方因為我在教育現場看到就是這個樣子那我特別同情的是當我們越來越多的育兒今天我的原住民的這些幼兒很可憐啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
22355.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
22378.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
因為部落除了學校的公立幼兒園或者是鄉公所一鄉一個幼兒園很多部落是根本沒有幼兒園也沒有什麼所謂的准公共頂多這幾年有一個叫做部落托育班可是這個部落托育班我剛剛有講了全國推動十幾年二十年就十四間部長你知道原因是什麼嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
22381.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
22390.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
找不到公共空間找不到政府願意補助找不到公共空間所以當外面都這樣的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
22392.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
22421.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
有沒有人想到原偏鄉的幼兒怎麼辦我們反而是希望拜託教育部國教署政府應該大量的投資蓋這一些公共空間讓我們可以辦文化健康站照顧老人讓我們可以辦幼托機構照顧我們的孩子這樣子才對不是嗎我寧可大家把錢應該要往這個地方去原偏鄉的孩子受的教育不好是拖垮整個國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
22424.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
22451.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
所以我一直希望說一個國家的韌性就是在於看他最脆弱的那個環夠不夠有韌性所以不能棄守原偏鄉我希望政府要關注這個問題投入更多所以包括一些弱勢的問題我都很像我們的身障全法我們的特教法這一些身心障礙的孩子都沒有寫到幼兒的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
22451.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].end |
22462.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].text |
或者是我們的中等以下特教無障礙設施設置要點也沒有寫到幼兒園我們的很多法令都沒有針對這些身心障礙的幼兒他的衛生設備的規範去做 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
22467.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].end |
22494.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].text |
納入如果我們要修應該是好好的把這些不足的地方好好修那這個是我的訴求那我也希望是不是兩個禮拜針對我今天所提出的問題希望教育部給我一份書面報告可以嗎可以好謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝吳昭偉非常感謝您的分享收益良多一起努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
22497.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].end |
22514.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].text |
謝謝您的支持我們繼續來檢討讓他更好謝謝下一位王振旭委員對不起對不起我應該要先念王育敏王育敏王育敏再下一位王振旭委員不好意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
22522.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].end |
22531.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].text |
好 謝謝主席安排今天的這個優照法的修正草案那就請教育部政部長有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
22540.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].end |
22555.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].text |
今天就從這個教保公共化目標不應改變的這個大前提之下有兩個議題來跟部長請教第一個就是教保公共化目標不應改變第二個議題就是這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].start |
22556.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].end |
22585.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].text |
健全公幼寒暑假的這個家托服務的相關的內容也要請教部長我們也了解這個補助師又是一個資源挫制這樣的民團有提出這樣的擔心我們可以看得出來這個托育及就業政策催生聯盟他們其實是很謹慎的希望能夠呼籲在修法的過程需要有更多的討論或者是要有把握一些更大的細節 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].start |
22586.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].end |
22611.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].text |
那我國從2018年推動這個私立幼兒園準公共化政策以來至今已經引導超過2000家的私立幼兒園跟政府簽約提供超過24萬個平價的收託名額在這個過程裡面政府也持續投入資源來擴大公共化的教保服務預計今年還會累積政策的這個公共化幼兒園將會超過4000半這個量能其實是逐漸的在擴大當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].start |
22616.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].end |
22633.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].text |
這項數據也印證了政府長期以來以增設公共化幼兒園為主並服役準公共化機制的政策主軸來切合民眾對平價、較保的需求也是社會大眾與多數的托育團體共同的期待 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
22633.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].end |
22657.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].text |
那這次的這個又叫好的修法方向裡面是想要針對未加入準公共的這個純私立的業者提供每升每月一萬五千元以上的補助那這個部分相對的是意味著政府就必須要額外的編列有三百億元的預算將公共資源沒有其他條件的要求之下投入不受 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
22658.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].end |
22672.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].text |
價格跟品質管制的這個私有的市場那這個是剛剛所提到民團所擔心的這個資源挫制的一個修法方向那台灣其實已經建立了完善的這個准公共化政策的這個體制那私立業者如果想要在營運上 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].start |
22673.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].end |
22689.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].text |
的確想要爭取這個托育補助的需求的話那理論上應該要申請加入政府的準公共的機制並接受相關的公共化管制那這些管制呢就要包括全收費的上限那教保服務人員的薪資保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].start |
22690.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].end |
22707.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].text |
幼兒園的評鑑還有建築物公共安全以及教保私生幣這些核心的規範這個是比較符合大家共同的期待那這些管制基礎是要保障家長的權益學童的安全跟教師勞動條件的一個必要的底線 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].start |
22709.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].end |
22734.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].text |
那如果要放寬補助限制的話我們擔心就是等同像市場釋出了一個錯誤的訊號容許沒有受管制的這些私有市場在不承擔政府管理的前提之下來共享公共資源那將這回實質削弱的現行準公共化政策的引導功能那基於這個公共資源的有效配置跟要保品質的把關所以針對今天的修法其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
22735.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].end |
22758.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].text |
大家也有相對的疑議那也需要能夠繼續充分的來討論那這邊有一個數據也請部長一起來參考我相信部長應該很清楚根據這個檢察院今年發布的一個調查報告指出2024年總公共幼兒園的受裁罰的比例有8.3%顯著低於一般私立幼兒園的13.7% |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
22760.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].end |
22785.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].text |
意思就是說一般私立幼兒園的受裁法比例其實是遠高於準公共幼兒園所裁法的比例那這項數據明確的證實私立的幼兒園在簽約成為準公共幼兒園會由於學會的上限還有教保員最低薪資以及政府在建築物公共安全消防設施跟施生比以及教保服務品質等各層面的嚴格監督跟定期的評鑑 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].start |
22786.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].end |
22804.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].text |
確實有效的降低了違法比例保障了第一線又有了救血安全所以這邊想要請教部長的就是那如果今天經過大家討論修法通過的話那教育部將要額外的編列這個300億元的這個預算是否會造成排斥原來的這個增設公共化跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].start |
22806.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].end |
22824.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].text |
公共幼兒園規劃的這樣的目標那更嚴重的是不是擔心一旦不受這個管理的這個私幼也可以領取托育補助的話那是否會造成總公共幼兒園大規模的退場本來是影響了學童家長跟教師的權益部長你的想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].start |
22826.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].end |
22841.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].text |
確實謝謝委員關心我們這個年輕家庭幼兒的一個照顧我想如果這個第七條修訂過這個失效每個人每個小孩補助1.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].start |
22843.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].end |
22861.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].text |
事實上是要423億因為連這個公幼婚姻利跟准公幼全部都免費另外以我目前剛才委員特別關注到的確實私校私立幼兒園的整個品質裡邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].start |
22862.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].end |
22879.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].text |
比較以目前的監督的機制是比較薄弱的我想國際上也一直OECD也一直會希望這個幼兒的照顧是以這個公共化的一個概念來看政府在整個品質跟這個幼兒的一個教育上 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].start |
22881.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].end |
22909.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].text |
他們是會比較全面而且品質是比較好的這也是我們一直很擔心說如果這錢不是錢補助而已錢補助裡邊的未來的整個監督的機制包括這剛才也有吳委員特別提到錢領了然後不入園或者很多的東西我們都要包含未來地方到底要承擔多少的分擔多少的一個經費這都是整體要有一個更完整的一個討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].start |
22909.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].end |
22931.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].text |
好 謝謝部長這麼完整的說明可是我們也知道健全這個公幼寒暑假加多服務其實也是大家非常期待的這也是我們目前一個重點在推動的一個方向因為從前面的這個裁法資料裡面可以看到公立幼兒園依然是對兒童是最安全而且是讓家長最有保障的一種教保環境 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].start |
22932.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].end |
22954.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].text |
過去大家對於這個公立幼兒園一直都是趨之若鶩那家長其實普遍焦慮的痛點反而是說那個時候名額太少中介率過低可是隨著這公共化班次的擴增現在公立幼兒園已經不再像之前那麼樣的這個可以攔取攔你抽到可以去上這個公立幼兒園可是令人遺憾的就是公幼卻逐漸轉變成只有 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].start |
22956.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].end |
22965.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].text |
後援的這個家庭才有辦法就讀的地方對廣大的這個雙薪家庭來講就是公幼依然是看得到吃不到的遺憾那剛剛部長有說明說還會持續的精進那根據這個兒福聯盟的調查顯示 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].start |
22970.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].end |
22993.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].text |
家長之所以不選擇品質優良的公立幼兒園主要有兩大原因一個就是無法配合寒暑假的照顧空窗期以及每日放學時間過早上下班來不及接送分別到達59% 將近60%的這個百分比的這個可以讓我們繼續改善的部分那這部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].start |
22994.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].end |
23023.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].text |
如果是寒暑假的這個托育空窗期仍然實時存在的話那相對於這個全台無數的沒有後援的雙薪家庭來講真的是很難承擔之重感謝委員的提醒而胡聯盟2023年的調查確實他發現了問題那這兩年這個國教署也跟地方縣市教育局處做了一些溝通合作目前我們暑假有開班也就是說因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].start |
23024.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].end |
23041.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].text |
年輕家庭他們很多小孩子去讀書他不會這個父母親沒有放寒暑假所以我們現在暑假已經公幼裡邊已經到94%也就是說這兩年事實上地方政府也看到了問題大家都希望能夠把公幼 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].start |
23042.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].end |
23061.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].text |
對年輕家庭的這個小孩的一個照顧能夠提升他的一個服務的時間跟品質所以也利用這個機會跟委員做這樣一個補充說明我們現在公幼已經到94%暑假是有也有這個提供這個服務的不像以前寒暑假就全部這個放假了 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].start |
23062.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].end |
23074.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].text |
所以聽起來是已經改善到一個很好的程度讓家長可以放心的去做好讓他們在托育的過程裡面其實是很安心的好 那就謝謝部長謝謝好 謝謝委員請回 部長請回 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].start |
23085.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].end |
23098.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].text |
好 羅明財 羅明財 羅明財林淑芬 林淑芬 林淑芬蔡易瑜 蔡易瑜 蔡易瑜張家俊 張家俊 張家俊今天登記質詢的委員均已發言完畢詢答結束對於委員質詢時要求提供相關資料為 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].start |
23099.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].end |
23126.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].text |
及時答覆的部分 請相關機關尽速以書面答覆另外有委員徐欣怡 林淑芬 傅坤琦 王育敏 林倩琦 蘇清泉 陳金輝提出書面質詢列入記錄 刊登公報 並且相關機關以書面答覆繼續 我們進行法案主條審查 未立於討論我們現在下去你先 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].start |
23127.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].end |
23136.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].text |
然後請議事人員現在進行法案主條審查請議事人員宣讀條文並進行討論與協商討論時如果新增修正都已經一併宣讀就請宣讀請宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].start |
23164.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].end |
23192.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].text |
第五 教育及照顾法第七条 委员需信任等提案第五项第五项据所修正为正统一法则来争断征定其中接受公立幼儿园总公督幼儿园勤奉营令幼儿园公务者和公务者组织公务也无需缴费接受私立幼儿园公务者及幼儿园公务者组织公务者与新的幼儿园公务者 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].start |
23192.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].end |
23202.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].text |
好現在進行幼兒教育及照顧法條部分條文相關修正草案逐條審查第7條條文修正由委員徐信穎等20人等15個提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].start |
23215.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].end |
23230.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].text |
好 我們現在先有請委員來發表意見好 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].start |
23249.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].end |
23265.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].text |
好我先報告一下因為教育部長人說不太舒服所以他想要先行離開那沒關係我先處理這件事情我們先休息休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].start |
23406.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].end |
23408.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].text |
好現在繼續開會好我們現在呢因為有委員提出了這一個動議來我們請宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].start |
23427.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].end |
23454.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].text |
建議現行政府推動少子女化對策計畫擴大平權教保服務量多年相關就學輔助育兒津貼政策已有法源依據並具彈性調整空間而此次修正草案多為民定行政部門大幅增加支出之提議涉及憲法財政紀律相關規定影響政府重大財政支出每年預算增加幅度高達數百億衝擊現行托育 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].start |
23457.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].end |
23458.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].text |
好 現在處理動議有沒有人有異議 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].start |
23487.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].end |
23488.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].text |
好 有異議 清點人數清點人數完畢了嗎好 在場委員四位因為我們表決需要有三分之一也就是十位才可以表決所以現場不處理動議我們繼續 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].start |
23518.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].end |
23537.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].text |
來我們繼續討論現在進入到幼兒教育及照顧法修正草案第7條條文修正有委員徐欣盈等20人所提出15個提案現在進行開始來請提案人說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].start |
23544.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].end |
23565.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].text |
台灣民眾黨團有本席覺得因為今天詢答已經我覺得很清楚了所以我覺得就直接處理法條事實上面對少子化的這樣的一個危機我想朝野政黨都非常心心念念我覺得可以來處理法條 以上好 那是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].start |
23567.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].end |
23595.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].text |
我們現階段因為有委員提就直接處理法條就保留嗎建議保留那有沒有意見好多數大家都沒有意見沒有好那我們就繼續進行保留謝謝下一條第七條條文修正有委員徐信鼎20人等15個提案保留送院會處理下一條 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].start |
23600.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].end |
23613.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].text |
主席 不好意思我剛進來有點太趕了我先確定一下 不好意思我先道歉 各位委員不好意思我們要繼續討論對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].start |
23615.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].end |
23641.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].text |
對 羅志強委員一直繼續討論那剛剛第七條的部分我還沒有發言 對不起不好意思 因為我們已經保留送院會處理已經決議對 因為第十八條剛好培育委員這個是你的所以從這邊開始我知道我知道您可以說明 沒關係好不好好 沒關係第十八條因為您所提到的版本都是有關於小朋友閱讀的部分也是利益良善所以你是提案人麻煩您可以就你的十一條來提出說明 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].start |
23646.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].end |
23661.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].text |
讓你把握任何情緒想法,並順利在大家手上體驗,並實現任何技術,修正於平等工作,並不像你,任何人都要修正任何技術,修正功力,任何人都要修正任何技術,任何人都要 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].start |
23664.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].end |
23683.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].text |
好 謝謝主席我的部分是第十一條謝謝主席給我發言的欸 等一下 可以嗎可以啊可以可以 好 發言的部分但我剛剛第七條的部分一開始有點漏掉我還是要補充那是不是待會也拜託懇請主席給國教署一個說明的機會就是關於那個費用的部分啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].start |
23685.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].end |
23706.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].text |
我們還是有很多擔心擔心的部分包含現在其實才化法的部分因為錢很多到地方去了從上一次的營養午餐我們也聽到署長有報告關是國產食材的部分然後如何分攤的費用還有營養教育食農教育的部分其實很多錢算起來必須要地方政府一起分攤所以必須跟地方政府討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].start |
23708.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].end |
23726.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].text |
關於幼兒教育的部分其實現在必須有很多業務是中央跟地方要討論要分工那現在我猜想你們應該還沒有討論定案所以剛剛在第七條的部分我其實想要補充說明就是有太多太多的事情沒有跟地方討論我其實很擔心那另外還有講說 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].start |
23729.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].end |
23752.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].text |
我們其實我知道早上主席你在你自己的提案說明的時候你有提到說大家會不會擔心很多私校的機制是沒有辦法被處理的其實這也是我自己所擔心的所以我會說今天這樣保留送出去是不是好事未來我們在保留出委員會要去協商的時候是不是還有機會討論我都不是很確定但我要說現在如果我們來看整體世界上對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].start |
23754.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].end |
23778.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].text |
如果把多數的金額預算去補助所謂私利托育這個部分我們會很擔心價格難以控管學費會上漲政府的資金被業者吸收家長不會完全受惠這些擔心並不是本黨委員講的而是在OECD2025年的報告書裡面就說了所以我們才會有公托啦準公托啊非營利幼兒園這些事情就是希望促進更大量的服務公共化 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].start |
23778.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].end |
23806.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].text |
但是保留原來的私幼體制還是希望可以照顧到家長的教育選擇權但是如果未來假設在野黨團不管是國民黨或民眾黨最後決定藍白河去決議通過三讀通過這個東西那未來這些私幼他要不要接受教育部的管制要不要有相關的法規進入或者是這個預算到底要從哪裡來其實我現在是非常擔心的早上也有委員講到現在私幼的部分是16萬人那假設用這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].start |
23806.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].end |
23830.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].text |
現在各委員的版本提案會花掉300億然後再加上30多萬人現在在所謂公立系統當中然後再把各委員的提案放進去花了100億也就是將近這400億多出來今天這個版本的預算裡面到底要從哪裡來我還是非常擔心所以我想雖然剛剛已經喊保留了我還是希望未來再多加討論而且拜託國教署等一下說明你們如何跟地方政府溝通好 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].start |
23831.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].end |
23838.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].text |
那我自己第11條部分當然是從閱讀的部分切入我已經講過很多次但是我要說目前越來越多國家對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].start |
23840.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].end |
23867.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].text |
幼兒閱讀這一塊的重點這件事情是提出越來越多的警告跟相關的研究那尤其是在AI這兩年變成世界熱錢跟熱潮的去處的時候更多學者專家是更擔心幼兒長期接觸電子產品的時候會影響他的大腦發展甚至影響到未來的認知學習能力還有情緒控管能力這件事情所以我希望入法化所以我其實在早早就提出第十一條的修正條文是希望把教保服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].start |
23868.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].end |
23893.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].text |
納入跟閱讀有關這些內容好那以上那主席我是不是可以懇求我剛有請國教署回應的部分待會給他們時間一定要讓他回應我答應你好謝謝主席不好意思因為雖然我是主席但是我也想用委員的身份講一下話第十一條條文修正我是覺得裴育委員提的這個東西立一兩三非常棒我們是不是就照委員陳裴育等18人提案通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].start |
23901.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].end |
23926.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].text |
OK當然啦我都只能用問句嘛對啊好那現在恢復主持那請問誰要發言好吳委員謝謝好謝謝主席其實我今天都沒有版本啦但是我依然很關心是的沒有錯所以我還是希望留下發言紀錄當然當然我的意思是說因為考量到 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].start |
23927.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].end |
23953.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].text |
我們過去的這個所謂的育兒津貼從兩千五變三千現在是變五千那未來呢還會有所謂的成長津貼加五千我的意思是說育兒津貼也好成長津貼也好它最主要就是少子女計畫的一個對策就是希望大家敢生敢養 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].start |
23954.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].end |
23969.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].text |
敢結婚可是我覺得今天我們在談的是幼兒教育及照顧所以我非常贊同未來我們的育兒津貼成長津貼就算到兩萬一萬五我相信我們都舉雙手雙腳贊成因為這個是真的讓家長 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].start |
23973.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].end |
23996.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].text |
她真的是負擔很重可以養育孩子可以去補習啊去讀私幼都沒有關係但是我真的覺得說可是如果要單獨的在這個法裡面針對特定的幼兒園去做這樣的一個法令就如我剛剛質詢說的我比較擔心未來會衍生其他反而是沒有辦法讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].start |
23996.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].end |
24018.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].text |
我們的幼兒教育照顧的目的被達成所以我還是希望說這個部分我之所以沒有提出版本我認同就是要增加育兒津貼成長津貼但是我覺得在法裡面去做這樣的一個文字的修法我是覺得說還是需要去考慮考慮謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].start |
24020.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].end |
24042.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].text |
好 那待會是郭玉琴委員 秀寶委員 村丑委員發言那也跟我互動啦 跟那個吳立華委員報告因為您的說法非常認同所以我們早上有提案說明的時候有提到就是王育敏的版本42跟53條修正的時候希望能夠去控管那個私幼的 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].start |
24044.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].end |
24056.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].text |
財務還有不能夠讓他們巧立名目監督私誘把他給框架起來不能夠惡意漲價之類的所以待會主要討論我們再繼續探究謝謝對對對一起加油那下一個郭玉琴委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].start |
24057.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].end |
24084.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].text |
好 我跟文林華委員一樣其實這個部分我也沒有特別提我們自己的版本但是我在想如果說是要針對這個補助那要強行入法 直接入法其實我比較擔心的就是說這個入法之後變成比較僵化了那變成沒有可以調整的一個彈性那另外其實我們也會擔憂就是這樣子的一個補助會不會被 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].start |
24085.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].end |
24106.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].text |
私有變成另外一種變相的漲價那到底這個補助是補助到這個私有的業者身上還是補助這個其實早上其實我在質詢的時候其實也都已經提到了那另外就是涉及中央跟地方的這個經費的分擔那是不是也應該要跟地方政府來做一個比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].start |
24109.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].end |
24126.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].text |
細緻上的一個溝通啦那也要廣納更多的一些教師團體還有一些學者他們的一些意見那我們也擔心說這個補助是過度傾向在某一種特地的體系那反而會犧牲掉其他的一些公平性喔好 以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].start |
24130.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].end |
24154.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].text |
謝謝主席其實在今天這個法我沒有提自己的版本但是針對我們今天要修這個法其實早上我在宣導的時候我有提到我覺得說在這個中央跟地方的討論到底這個經費如何支應然後相關的經費負擔比例或者說相關的權責的部分如果還沒有都釐清而且沒有凝聚共識的話那其實你貿然這樣子去執行對於到底 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].start |
24158.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].end |
24181.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].text |
家里有幼儿的家庭他们所得到的这些津贴是不是在点上是不是他们所需求的那我早上也举了一个例子其实现在很多双薪家庭有幼儿的家庭他们对于比较希望能够去调整的部分呢除了说两岁以下的两岁的专班这个部分名额太少那还有就是说这个 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].start |
24183.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].end |
24199.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].text |
下課之後呢那等父母來接的這個時間呢但是沿托的這個費用呢對他們造成也是一個負擔但是你今天補貼在學費上到底對他們相關的這個孩子在托育的這個部分呢能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].start |
24200.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].end |
24206.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].text |
協助到他們多少而且我們在這個制度裡面並沒有說針對排富這個狀況是不是說相關的條款去討論那我也想教育部這邊其實很倉促沒有跟地方有一些共識的情況之下整個的資源的分配是不是均衡 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].start |
24221.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].end |
24240.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].text |
再加上我們現在相關的這個就學補助跟津貼其實我們都是有相關的行政規則在辦理那這樣子是非常靈活且非常彈性的那現在如果透過這個法規明文的把這個額度鎖在這邊那以後如果有需要調整的時候還是要必須經過修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].start |
24242.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].end |
24256.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].text |
這樣子一個很大的動作來做調整那如果有比較緊急的狀況其實沒有來得及因應的話我想對我們幼兒教育這個補助的這一塊呢也許對家長的這個及時的這個需求沒有辦法做很 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].start |
24257.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].end |
24285.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].text |
很彈性很靈活的這個調整喔那所以我本席其實一直覺得說應該維持現有的做法而且希望說教育部跟地方政府有很就是充分的協商以及討論但是今天我們主席就覺得說又開始進入主條那如果在討論的這個過程裡面就是因為就是一個沒有共識所以就是這樣保留保留我覺得這個好像也沒有充分的去進到我們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].start |
24286.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].end |
24302.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].text |
立法的這個過程裡面應該要廣納意見的這個部分那我只是希望說我們的權跟錢的這個分配應該要地方跟中央是有共識的之後我們再來修這個法以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].start |
24307.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].end |
24313.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].text |
趙薇 謝謝給我這樣的一個機會因為剛剛是下雨而且我們民眾黨那邊也在開會所以兩邊跑 所以有一點遲到謝謝給我這樣的一個機會因為台灣民眾黨提出的是第七條當然尊重趙薇的意思說保留但是我還是要針對我們的版本再做一個說明台灣民眾黨的版本是聚焦在 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].start |
24333.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].end |
24344.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].text |
公立幼兒園非營利幼兒園以及政府合作提供准公共教保服務的私立幼兒園我們最主要是要主張將現行的得市實際需要補助這計畫提升為制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].start |
24352.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].end |
24379.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].text |
制度性的一個保障那使父母或是監護人免納幼兒接受基本教保服務所必要的主要費用落實平價的一個教保還有減輕義兒負擔那我們的版本呢事實上是最折衷沒有把金額入伐而是把這一個金額的一個彈性呢給主管機關來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].start |
24382.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].end |
24403.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].text |
當下的需要來做調整所以呢我們也希望教育部呢能夠來試算一下我們的版本到底呢增加了多少那是不是在你的預算裡面那到時候呢在保留在討論的時候希望也能夠把台灣民眾黨這個版本呢來一起納入考慮以上 謝謝好 謝謝是羅志祥委員請說 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].start |
24410.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].end |
24430.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].text |
我們現在那個剛剛一個培育委員有講嘛我看那個主管機關對11條好像有一些意見所以待會可以先聽聽主管機關對第11條意見是什麼再進行討論 以上好 謝謝請主管機關就11條陳培育委員版本來提出建議 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].start |
24437.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].end |
24452.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].text |
好謝謝主席謝謝陳委員還有羅委員剛剛所提就11條的部分那我們覺得閱讀真的是非常重要因此我們有不管是相關的授權執法的準則或是相關的計劃都滿 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].start |
24454.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].end |
24473.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].text |
多元而且面向上是兼顧到各種地方政府的情形還有各種原所的需要以及各類幼兒的發展情形的投入所以是不是這一條因為涉及到目前的執法已經非常多計劃也蠻多元那麼我們最近也投資買書2.2億是不是陳請委員我們可以因為現行已經有相關 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].start |
24481.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].end |
24487.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].text |
行政規範做得蠻完整的那如果這樣的一個彈性其實也蠻可以與時俱進如果定在法律裡面包含等一下的條文等等會不會有一些會變成如果這裡特別提某一項那還會有很多項也要同時提出的話恐怕這樣子也許對現場在工作上 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].start |
24504.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].end |
24519.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].text |
以及我們用原來的行政規則上的彈性是不是要兼顧時我建議這一條是不是可以先保留來我們再就一些詳細地方上為什麼特別又談到地方是因為剛才委員們也有提到前一條要討論的的確那除了這一條之外前一條更是委員今天一早到下午也還有很多的高見我覺得我記起來之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].start |
24532.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].end |
24548.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].text |
非常的受用我分為三大點來跟委員們報告我們所獲得的這個訊息第一大點大概有超過十個人次的委員在相關的訊息中去表達 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].start |
24550.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].end |
24578.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].text |
各類的員會不會受這個補助的衝擊進而影響到了九年來的努力這個如果沒有跟地方政府做一點討論行政機關在這九年相關的評價的公共化的這麼多年的努力是不是地方投入了這麼多的智慧跟努力是不是要尊重地方第二點 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].start |
24580.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].end |
24603.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].text |
在整體的品質上地方政府持續在公共化跟部裡面一起努力也在準攻這邊的努力當然在私立幼兒園大家也一起協同努力下大家似乎更看重的是用應該跟地方合作的既有的錢好好處理還有好多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].start |
24604.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].end |
24621.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].text |
更急迫性的例如兩歲專班目前兩歲專班這個缺口已經雖然增加了非常多但是仍然差距一般性兩到未滿六歲的差距了將近百分之三十這樣子沒有銜接時 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].start |
24623.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].end |
24647.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].text |
我們所談的要為年輕家庭能夠好好有一個好生養的環境似乎他就有一個非常明顯需要極大努力的那個缺口那個需要滿聚焦的投資那我們也看到了非常多爸爸媽媽在相關的工作上目前的環境需要的是一種靈活因應他們的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].start |
24648.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].end |
24659.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].text |
那可以需要非常大的人力資源的協助所有園所讓爸爸媽媽在受目前入園率那麼高但是他失之彈性到 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].start |
24660.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].end |
24684.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].text |
那下課呢他還是沒有辦法來接所以就有很多的零拖也好延拖的照顧也好有非常多的目前當前即時要的需求再加上地方政府如果溝通之後顯然會有非常多更好的觀點時大家一起來推相信會取得一個政策努力的 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].start |
24684.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].end |
24711.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].text |
具體的正當性跟未來會把這個政策推動的更有效來完成家長需求這個期待的滿足是不是給我們時間7月份來跟地方政府有一個就今天各委員所提的各大面向非常寶貴的意見有一題一題的跟地方政府來報告跟研討也回報我們教文本委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].start |
24712.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].end |
24741.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].text |
好 謝謝那羅志強委員請說我想是否第七條先行處理送駐委員會OK 好那因為剛剛已經有先宣讀了我再次補充幼兒教育及照顧法第七條相關修正草案已全部審查完略並按擬據審查報告提請院會公決須交由黨團協商院會討論時由羅昭吉委員庭委補充說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].start |
24742.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].end |
24764.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].text |
以上宣告 謝謝 我們繼續照下一個條文來處理那因為剛剛第11條陳培育委員的這一個版本那國教署是希望保留啦 再行討論好 那我們是不是就照國教署的建議此條此條保留送院處理好 謝謝我們培育委員也支持保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].start |
24773.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].end |
24790.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].text |
送院會協商對對對對好第12條條文修正也是陳培鈺委員等18人一個提案那目前這個版本就只有培鈺委員好有請問有需要發言嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].start |
24793.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].end |
24820.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].text |
好 那培育委員說給國教署直接說明第12條 謝謝謝謝昭偉培育委員所看到的這個的確非常的重要那培育委員也長期一直協助我們知道我們在很多的不管執法或是計畫上給我們很多的指導之後的投資那目前也蠻靈活另外也特別照顧到關心到3C的等等的那目前也在做相關法案以及相關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].start |
24821.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].end |
24839.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].text |
配套措施的處理那是不是比照剛剛的那一條因為這是不是容許讓我們有機會跟地方政府有一個七月份的探討那一起來做處理我們也建議先保留來聽聽地方實際在運作時給我們更寶貴的意見 謝謝好 培育委員保留可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].start |
24840.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].end |
24865.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].text |
好謝謝主席我簡單回應一下因為確實不論是3C產品的使用辦法或者是買出的資源或者是閱讀教室的部分當然都是我長期在意的非常謝謝國教署一直以來都有配合然後也推進所以我才會想要入法但如果未來還有更多要跟縣市政府溝通確定資源的部分我們就可以保留未來拜託國教署教育部持續跟地方政府溝通謝謝好以上宣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].start |
24866.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].end |
24889.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].text |
第12條條文修正有委員陳佩玉等18人一個提案保留送院會處理那我也必須發言一下呼應陳佩玉委員的一個入法需求那最近英國也在討論說小朋友這個用社群媒體的相關限制要跟進澳洲那我就網路觀察 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].start |
24890.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].end |
24907.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].text |
對於網路留言就說台灣也希望有機會能夠透過立法來更限制小朋友在社群媒體的使用避免被同儕啊 比較啊所以我覺得看到有委員在幼照法這邊的提案我覺得其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].start |
24909.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].end |
24927.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].text |
他的初衷很像也希望國教署好好的研議不只是幼照法甚至是能夠結合速發部在重要的法令上能夠限制國外的廠商大家一起來努力以上主席我問一下那所以如果11 12保留是跟您剛剛第7條一併保留送宴會嗎你要怎麼處理是同一包還是分兩包 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].start |
24933.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].end |
24959.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].text |
那會怎麼處理我這兩條會怎麼被您處理你希望我怎麼處理想跟你請問一下因為如果是送願會的話那既然大家是今天一起討論要嘛就一起送願會那不然你我剛剛為什麼會這樣問因為您剛剛特別說第七條保留送願會但是我的十一條我沒有聽到是保留送願會還是保留下次協商所以要拜託主席才是那我們可以根據您的才是再有所討論這樣好不好好 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].start |
24960.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].end |
24984.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].text |
那我想一下 我們邊討論下一條邊討論 邊想好不好好 因為我先主張一下喔 就是保留本來就是可以保留但是保留的下一步是再協商 在委員會裡面協商還是送院會 因為送院會就等於是要去三讀表決也不經過韓院長的協商了嗎正常我們還是要協商啦送出院會 送進院會我也是覺得還是要 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].start |
24985.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].end |
25002.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].text |
沒有就看我們要在委員會處理還是院會協商但我個人認為要尊重執政黨我們還是會在所謂的協商那凝聚更大的共識而且再來我也要跟民眾黨在凝聚共識我們也要協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].start |
25002.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].end |
25004.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].text |
基本上我們是出去委員會由我召開協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].start |
25034.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].end |
25059.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].text |
11 12待會我們就推到哪裡就到時候我一定最後結論還是要把你送出去嘛好不好我也不會把你留在委員會丟包你嘛好不好因為你這個我就已經呼應說這個是為小朋友好的嘛對不對好我看怎麼樣處理你等我一下好不好待會我們第25條條文修正喔有王玉明等21人一個提案請大家看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].start |
25071.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].end |
25072.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].text |
好 有沒有委員有意見對 我們參考王育民委員的版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].start |
25083.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].end |
25109.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].text |
好 第25條這條主要是配合這個性別平等教育法的調次的修正那教育部認為依照這個中央法規標準法目前實務執行上沒有什麼太大的一個摯愛只是調次的調整而已那我想應該沒有什麼太大問題無傷大雅好 那我們是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].start |
25112.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].end |
25131.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].text |
就保留宋淵慧協商因為無傷大雅嘛不會影響嘛 對不對好 那不會影響那就趙王委員玉敏21人提案通過無傷大雅啦好 謝謝那我們這一個第25條就趙委員王玉敏等21人提案通過 謝謝第27條條文修正有委員王玉敏等21人一個提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].start |
25150.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].end |
25158.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].text |
好第第17頁好來27條這個基本上呢有沒有委員請 郭育群委員 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].start |
25163.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].end |
25180.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].text |
27條其實理解大家對於這個護兒就是安全的一個初衷啦但是想要請教一下這個教育部就是現行的條文對於所謂的這個通報的查詢是不是已經有相關的規範那委員的提案他是說只要涉及或是跟這個教保服務機構 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].start |
25181.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].end |
25206.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].text |
就應該要依規定來辦理這個通報資訊的收集那但是我也擔心就是這個資訊的標籤化對於所謂的這個教保同仁的一些焦慮所以是不是建請這個教育部應該要聽取更多教保人員他們團體的一些聲音在預警機制跟保障勞權之間取得平衡那這條我建議是不是可以請國教署發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].start |
25209.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].end |
25235.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].text |
謝謝趙偉剛剛郭委員是有建議說還是再審慎一點那我們也覺得因為這會涉及到教保同仁在這方面一些認定所以我們還是尊重保留一下會比較好那尊重因為政黨還是要到時候協商處理第27條條文修正那有委員提保留那主管機關也覺得謹慎一點好我們就保留送院會協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].start |
25239.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].end |
25251.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].text |
第30條 對不起 第28條王玉民委員等21人一個提案請大家看一下 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].start |
25270.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].end |
25298.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].text |
郭益勤委員請說第28條這個教育部已經有說明了現行執法其實已經有規定這個行政調查期間依法停職那涉及犯罪的違法的事件本來就應該可以同時辦理行政調查這一點其實我是認同教育部的這個說明應該是可以維持現行條文我請向就是維持現行的條文這樣有沒有委員有其他意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].start |
25304.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].end |
25324.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].text |
行政主管機關的意見剛剛顧議委員有幫我們解釋得很清楚我們覺得現在的條文應該就可以處理是不是我們就維持現在的條文好 我們尊重那第28條條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].start |
25331.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].end |
25357.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].text |
有沒有委員有意見好不好意思因為有委員有意見為了審慎主理那我們還是不好意思可能麥克風建議保留好 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].start |
25359.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].end |
25383.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].text |
那 保留啦齁 那有委員提案保留那我們就第28條條文修正有委員王玉敏等21人一個提案保留送院會處理第30條條文修正有林月琴等16人一個提案我們林月琴委員的條文麻煩大家看一下第19頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].start |
25393.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].end |
25400.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].text |
郭月琴委員喔 對不起我想說你會發言 不好意思好 我幫月琴委員發言一下不好意思好 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].start |
25401.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].end |
25429.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].text |
因為固定發言 抱歉抱歉好 我幫月秦委員發言一下主要是因為我知道現行條文的寫法教育部認為說已經有相關條例可以處理可是月秦委員家這邊的寫法請大家注意他是說直轄市縣市主管機關於注意其他兒童隱私或資訊後因於法定代理人或實際照顧者申請調查相關資料時提供是把現在第一線的現場好像這邊沒有辦法照顧到的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].start |
25430.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].end |
25451.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].text |
放進去這樣那我不確定教育部你們跟衛福部在討論調閱相關資料的時候是不是真的有約情委員看見這個現場的困境導致於沒有辦法提供相關資料尤其是所謂的實際照顧者因為法定代理人我們可以理解喔可是在很多催加的情況下有人一直點頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].start |
25452.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].end |
25476.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].text |
在催加的情況下實際照顧者到底可不可以真的被納入或者是過往在實際照顧者想要去調閱相關資料的時候其實主管機關是不願意給的我覺得第一線一定有這個狀況所以才會有這個寫法所以是不是可以請國教署說明一下好 謝謝 請國教署處理 回應 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].start |
25478.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].end |
25508.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].text |
陳偉業議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].start |
25508.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].end |
25537.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].text |
申請的時候或是我們在聯同要給這個調查報告的時候會提供所以有含實際照顧者所以在現行的這個授權執法就這個比較強度比較強的就已經提及跟要求要這樣處理是不是委員這一個所提在母法中因為有時候就像委員在這兩年跟我們看到了一個需求我們馬上在執法有一些處理所以執法在處理很多的臨時的特殊情形在因應上 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].start |
25539.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].end |
25552.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].text |
變動性的彈性因應比較足夠那是不是建議用線型的條紋然後我們用授權的指法來靈活的因應各種的需求是 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].start |
25554.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].end |
25571.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].text |
因為坦白講主管機關的說法但是現場培育委員也覺得有其必要性的可能當然不一定因為委員不在對我不是本人但是為求審慎我也不能夠說這一條就照 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].start |
25573.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].end |
25594.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].text |
原條文啦齁公平處理剛剛王玉敏的我們保留那林月琴的也應該保留進入下一個環節來討論為求謹慎也希望不要怪衣漏腕所以第三十條條文修正由委員林月琴等16人一個提案保留送院會處理現場可以嗎可以好可以謝謝下一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].start |
25600.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].end |
25610.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].text |
也是我們陳培宇委員的提案 第32條之一條文修正 要 增訂委員陳培宇等18人 一個提案是不是請陳培宇委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].start |
25612.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].end |
25638.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].text |
好 謝謝主席我快速的說明它是跟著前面的條文當我們有了資源 有了課程 有了人員之後我們希望在所有的幼教場合都可以設圖書館或市當然我寫的是德社啦 不是英社然後要寬列圖書採購預算跟訂訂閱讀課程因為我們現在感謝教育部在前年通過了我們的國教法22條的修法就是每一年現在至少有3億元可以採購書籍 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].start |
25639.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].end |
25666.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].text |
但是假设在幼儿园的部分我们在0到6岁可以做更多努力当然绝对是好事可是因为前面条文都保留所以我想我就个人主张保留没有问题我们后续一并讨论但是我想未来在子法也好在魔法也好协助家长协助老师做更多幼儿阅读这件事情绝对是我们这个时代在推进AI的同时必须回到基础工程来去努力的事情谢谢好 请主管机关回应谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].start |
25668.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].end |
25689.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].text |
好 謝謝委員 我們尊重你就建議因為我們七月分會跟地方政府就包含第七條等等的一些溝通那是不是在保留 謝謝委員好 那我們就先保留也等那個國教署七月的時候溝通一下那我想委員的提案也是利益良善那此條保留送院會處理 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].start |
25695.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].end |
25715.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].text |
第三十七條條文修正由委員蘇星泉等二十人一個提案請委員有沒有意見他沒來他沒來怎麼辦沒關係現場問其他委員有沒有什麼建議好那我發言好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].start |
25716.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].end |
25736.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].text |
好 主席我發言專業發言 請說好 我沒有要幫蘇清泉委員echo啦沒關係 沒關係好 我其實是要提出另外一個可能的擔心啦當我們在講遺體受體術基因改造新鮮食品及其初期交通食品的時候會不會掛意漏腕啦其實我們之前在講很多的跟食物有關的事情我個人從營養午餐的角度切入我覺得會有掛意漏腕的問題那當然現在我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].start |
25739.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].end |
25765.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].text |
事實此刻喔孩子們每天吃的營養午餐是99.5%以上的國產食材那根據所有委員所擔心的事情不論是疫情受體數啊 基改生鮮啊這些都已經在相關的辦法裡面那甚至衛福部也有相關的辦法教育部也有那再加上還有資源跟財政的補助那我想這件事情從教育部的角度你們應該不會鬆懈我相信你們不會鬆懈那我也建議就是維持現行條文不過因為所有委員不在我也不能代替 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].start |
25766.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].end |
25769.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].text |
他發言 等一下就尊重主席的才是跟教育部的說法 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].start |
25771.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].end |
25796.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].text |
那我也講一下好是郭益勤委員請說當然其實大家都注意非常重視這個幼兒的食安不過我們也要考慮就是說這樣子的一個提案的一個修法會不會有疊床加屋那之後是不是要哪一些能列哪一些不能列其實要列根本列不完會有這樣子一個問題所以是不是就是因為提案的委員有沒有特別來說明那這一條是不是就一樣也是保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].start |
25799.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].end |
25828.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].text |
羅志祥委員請說明就建議保留吧好那由委員都提案保留我們也是在麻煩國教署是不是七月的時候會有這個機會探討一下一起把這個部分列入議程第三十七條條文修正由委員蘇星璇等二十人一個提案保留送院會處理接下來是第四十三條條文修正由委員王玉敏等二十一人一個提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].start |
25831.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].end |
25846.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].text |
那有沒有委員有意見趁委員還沒舉手的時候那我先表達一下那這個就是第43條我想當然有其他的團體特別在呼籲不要 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].start |
25848.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].end |
25864.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].text |
變成是補助幼教團體而是幼教業者也不要只是照顧到他們而是真正的照顧到家庭所以這個是絕對我們要支持所以我是呼應第43條有值得探討的必要 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].start |
25864.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].end |
25892.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].text |
那當然是希望能夠照案通過甚至是要不然就是保留送協商但是我早上看到王玉敏很清楚的說明43跟52都是為了要防範我們的相關收費的機制不要被巧立名目惡意漲價變成我們在補助家長的時候反而又讓業者有這個漲價的空間出來所以我們還是要繼續的有這樣子的一個框架的 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].start |
25893.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].end |
25912.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].text |
法規所以王玉明委員的這個說明我是覺得應該可以支持以上陳佩玉委員請說那但是我就想既然王委員不在跟著前面的條款我們是不是就也就我就爭取保留啦主席謝謝好 右委員提案保留沒有意見喔好 沒有意見保留送院會處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].start |
25916.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].end |
25944.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].text |
送院會協商處理你剛剛都沒有宣告我的有啦有啦有啦有啦有啦有啦培育委員你的我絕對不會主席主席我們等一下再一條一條到底你所謂的送院會等一下每一條都要唸對對對你到底要送哪裡要講清楚是我們委員會再次協商還是送韓國瑜院長主持的協商還是你要直接送院會路過去這樣要跟我說清楚主席好 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].start |
25944.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].end |
25973.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].text |
基本上都是送院會處理那送院會就不是委員會送院會處理就是路過的表決喔沒有啦送院會協商處理因為我們的環節跟大家報告送院會處理雖然是這樣講喔因為基本上他都是這樣寫啦送院會處理公版是這樣子但是我們還是要經過政黨協商因為他有所謂的各自意見嘛那可能要冷凍期一個月對吧那我們還要磋商一下到底有沒有可以精進的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].start |
25976.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].end |
25986.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].text |
好第52條條文對不起我剛剛的48條就是保留送院會處理現在第52條條文修正有委員王玉明等21人一個提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].start |
25991.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].end |
26016.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].text |
好 趁委員也還沒有舉手的時候也再次跟大家補充喔這個跟52跟48都是結合剛剛我說的啦王毓民委員特別有提這個罰款讓這個有罰款的部分才可以去賀止不管是違反超收啊甚至是惡意漲價啊或者是相關的一些法令危害到家長的這個規避檢查啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].start |
26020.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].end |
26035.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].text |
才會有的罰款所以我認為52更重要啦因為沒有罰款前面講什麼都沒有用那設立呢罰款就可以讓我們的框架能夠執行當中不會讓業者有漏洞以上有沒有委員有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].start |
26040.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].end |
26063.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].text |
主席謝謝我可以理解大家很擔心自己立了一個法以為要解決問題但可能創造了更多的問題所以王玉敏委員早上確實有特別發言關於這個罰緩的部分但是既然我們前面都保留我是不是也可以主張這一條也一併保留謝謝好尊重委員的提案那其他委員有沒有其他意見沒有意見好 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].start |
26065.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].end |
26081.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].text |
第52條條文修正有委員王玉明等21人一個提案保留送院會處理第54條條文修正有王玉明委員21人等一個提案請大家看一下27頁好那委員還沒有意見我就先跟大家報告這一條也是一樣有罰款的部分也是希望說後續能夠有 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].start |
26095.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].end |
26124.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].text |
突發狀況遇到這些違法事項的時候可以處理業者好郭姓委員請說好第54條這個針對這個加重隱密通報的這個法則當然我是認同這個保護幼兒他們的這個初衷啦但是也要去評估它的副作用因為現行我們的這個罰款已經能夠依照這個行政法行政罰罰處以這個比較高的額度對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].start |
26125.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].end |
26139.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].text |
那我想這個請教育部也說明一下除了加重罰款以外那行政上我們怎麼樣精進這個通報的流程加長宣導其實才能夠真正成為孩子的守護網所以這個部分是不是也就保留還是是因為碑玉委員有舉手麻煩您好 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].start |
26149.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].end |
26158.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].text |
那我們就保留齁好保留送院會處理大家沒有意見齁好那我們就送院會處理好主席要宣告了齁好 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].start |
26174.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].end |
26201.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].text |
好 委員蘇清泉等20人擬據幼兒教育照顧法第3C條條文修正草案審查完略 擬據審查報告提請院會公決須交由政黨協商對不起 須交由黨團協商院會表決時 由柔柔召集委員補充說明表決 怎麼會出現表決兩個字對不起 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].start |
26204.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].end |
26223.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].text |
院會公決 對不起我重新再一次 抱歉委員蘇洵前等20人擬拒幼兒教育照顧法第31條條文修正草案本案逐條已處理完畢 審查完畢擬拒於審查報告提請院會公決本案須交由黨團協商院會討論時由羅召集委員補充說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].start |
26233.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].end |
26261.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].text |
委員徐欣怡等20委員林月琴等16人拟據幼兒級照顧法第30條條文修正草案審查完略拟據審查報告提請院會公決本案須交由黨團協商討論宴會時由羅昭吉委員 庭委補充說明委員王玉敏等21人拟據幼兒級教育照顧法部分條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].start |
26263.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].end |
26288.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].text |
審查完略拟據審查報告提請院會公決本案須交由黨團協商院會討論時由羅昭吉委員補充說明委員陳培宇等18人拟據幼兒教育及照顧法等11條第12條第32條之一條文修正草案審查完略 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].start |
26289.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].end |
26299.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].text |
理據審查報告提請院會公決本案須交由黨團協商院會討論時由羅昭基委員庭委補充說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].start |
26307.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].end |
26326.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].text |
委員王玉敏等21人拟據《幼兒教育及照顧法》第43條第52條條文修正草案審查完略拟據審查報告提請院會公決本案須交由黨團協商院會討論時由羅昭吉委員補充說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].start |
26330.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].end |
26341.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].text |
本次會議自入授權主席確認後即上傳立法院全球資訊網公開報告委員會今日議程處理完畢現在散會謝謝 |