| IVOD_ID |
17488 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17488 |
| 日期 |
2026-06-03 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-23-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期交通委員會第16次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
16 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期交通委員會第16次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2026-06-03T08:33:52+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-06-03T12:41:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
04:07:08 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/f826c2e4afc302dde66ab847b1d2194e552cff921016ef4a807a15c9b8761715d50c7e72fe604efd5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-06-03T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期交通委員會第16次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算。
二、審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。
三、審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部數位產業署單位預算。
四、審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於國家通訊傳播委員會單位預算。
五、審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於國家通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播監督管理基金預算。
六、審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於國家通訊傳播委員會主管有線廣播電視事業發展基金預算。
【本次會議僅進行詢答；開會事由一至六預算提案截止收件時間：6月10日下午4時】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:33:52 - 12:41:00 |
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嗯 |
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1573.424 |
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好 出席委員已足法定人數我們現在開會請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第十一屆第五會期交通委員會第十五次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國一百一十五年五月二十五日星期一上午九時十五分至十二時四十四分下午一時九分至一時三十六分 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1595.464 |
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1608.664 |
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地點本院紅樓201會議室出席委員洪孟楷等14人列席官員東風部常務次長林國賢等主席林昭吉委員郡縣報告事項宣讀上次會議議事錄決定議事錄確定討論事項一至九 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1612.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1638.07 |
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繼續審查一百一十五年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部中央氣象署等單位預算及附屬單位預算直轄市及縣市政府一般性補助款交通部主管第二幕至第四幕決議本日預算審查結果照協商結論通過二本日通過之決議文字授權主席及議事人員調整三第一案至第九案均審查完畢內容如審查結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1638.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1663.178 |
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交通部中央七項署單位預算一稅入部分第二款第146項第三款第119項第四款第158項第七款第155項均照列二稅出部分第十四款第三項照列本項通過決議十三項觀光署及所屬單位預算一稅入部分第二款第147項第三款第120項第四款第159項第七款第156項均照列 |
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1668.94 |
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1675.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
二 稅出部分第十四款第四項改列為八十九億九千八百零六萬八千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1676.769 |
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1698.167 |
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本項提案一案保留,送院會處理本項通過決議二十二項,實銷市及縣市政府一般性補助款第二十七款第六項第四目照列公路局及所屬單位預算,依稅務部分第二款第一百四十九項,第三款第一百二十一項,第四款第一百六十一項,第七款第一百五十八項均照列 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1698.928 |
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1727.229 |
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二 稅出部分第十四款第六項照列本項通過決議三十六項直轄市及縣市政府一般性補助款第二十七款第六項第二幕照列航港局單位預算依稅務部分第二款第一百五十一項第三款第一百二十三項第四款第一百六十三項均照列第五款第九項站照列第一幕非營業特種基金聖雲腳庫十億六千七百六十九萬八千元站照列 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1727.97 |
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1740.638 |
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第七款第160項無列數二歲初部分第14款第8項照列本項通過決議16項直轄市及縣市政府一般性補助款第27款第6項第三目照列 |
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1742.168 |
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1755.594 |
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附屬單位預算營業及分營業部分1 交通部主管航廣建設基金1 業務計畫因依據審查結果隨同調整2 基金來源用途及餘處1 基金來源改列為99億5611萬2000元2 基金用途照列3 本期短處改列為3億2315萬3000元3 結繳工庫照列4 通過決議五項 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1767.459 |
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1783.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
2.交通部主管臺灣港務股份有限公司和臺灣港務港勤股份有限公司、高雄港區土地開發股份有限公司1.業務計畫因依據審查結果隨同調整2.營業收支1.營業總收入改列為260億4560萬3千元2.營業總支出改列為163億8091萬1千元3.稅前建議改列為96億6469萬2千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1796.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1809.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
3 服務成本隨同審查結果調整4 轉投資計畫照列5 重大資建設事業照列6 資金運用因應審查結果隨同調整7 通過決議20項 散會宣讀完畢好 我們稍後等會員到期我們再來處理議事錄我們要先介紹在場委員外美林委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1826.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1850.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
我們現在介紹列席官員數位發展部部長林怡靜部長自通安全署蔡福隆署長數位產業署林俊秀署長國家自通安全研究院林盈達院長財團法人台灣網路資訊中心黃聖雄董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1853.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1878.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
財團法人電信技術中心鄧維中執行長財團法人資訊工業測驚會范俊毅執行長國家通訊傳播委員會陳崇樹代理主委行政院主席總署公務預算處顏于平檢任視察基金預算處楊靖儒科長 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1882.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
1900.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
本日進行數位發展部自動安全署數位產業署國家通訊傳播委員會單位預算審查以及通訊傳播監督管理基金有限廣播電子事業發展基金非營業預算審查那我現在先進行報告請速發部及所屬單位進行報告我們先請林部長報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
1911.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
1932.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
主席各位委員大家好今天應邀列席貴委員會報告本部主管115年度施政計畫重點及預算編列情形深感榮幸感謝各位委員對於本部各項業務的支持與指教以下僅就115年度施政計畫重點及預算編列情形摘要報告如下 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
1933.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
1962.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
首先在115年施政计划重点方面为落实建构信任平权任性永续自由多元创新成长的数位台湾施政目标并扣合落实五大现代产业及AI新十大建设等上位政策的蓝图本部以一加强打价二发展软体产业三强化资安任性以及四建构数位政府为四大施政主轴携手产官学员打造创新安全而且以民为本的数位国家 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
1963.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
1971.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
再來在115年度預算編列情形1在稅務部分115年度稅務預算編列為24.53億元較114年度預算24.6億元減少0.08億元 約減0.33%主要是因為撥付通傳基金比率由14%增加至15%還有頻率及電信號碼使用費等規費收入減少 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
1990.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
1997.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那在稅出部的部分115年度稅出預算編列104.04億元較114年度預算包含追加預算的58.22億元增加45.82億元約增加78.7%包含本部編列29.53億元自通安全署編列15.16億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2011.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2027.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
数为产业署编列59.35亿元主要编列重点分数如下一在加强打诈工作方面为提供民众及时查询与通报可疑网络诈骗讯息的服务以提升诈骗侦测效率及防范能量 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2027.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2048.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
持续守护网络环境安全115年度预算编列4.59亿元较114年度预算增加1.0亿元透过精进网络诈骗通报查询网串联公司部门打诈能量扩大打诈好人队的阵容迅速拦阻及下架诈骗讯息另外 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2049.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2070.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
經近第三方支付能量登錄作業,透過事前防範、事中查證、事後查核三階段的控管防範犯罪集團進入產業並取得能量登錄資格以及建置第三方支付服務產業聯防平台透過與產業共享情資、快速識別並防堵來自高風險商家的詐騙行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2072.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2100.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
在发展软体产业方面为吸手软体产业运用AI算力走向产品化建立台湾AI产业生态系115年度预算编列42.85亿元较114年度增加26.07亿元主要是配合AI新十大建设计划强化数位创新动能推动各行各业数位转型升级强化资通讯技术开发与创新应用 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2100.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2112.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
促進產業AI賦能及推動資安產業發展透過算力資料人才行銷資金等五大政策工具加速AI應用與數位轉型升級 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2115.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2138.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
3.在強化資安與通訊韌性方面為強化資安防護能量建構陸海空多元應變網路韌性115年度預算編列15.25億元較114年度增加11.3億元透過完善資通安全管理法等制度的優化研發AI主動式防禦技術以及推動Semi-E |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2140.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2160.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
1187半导体资安标准等面向提升国家资安防护建立全社会资安韧性另外强化灾时通讯网路持续运作能力提升我国海底通讯电缆韧性布建多元卫星网路提升整体通讯网路韧性确保我国在紧急状况下仍能维持通讯运作 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2161.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2185.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
四 在加強數位政府建設方面我們優化政府數位服務與韌性打造高效智慧政府115年度預算編列8.61億元較114年度增加3.8億元辦理與人生事件為基礎的政府服務整合跨機關服務從出生就學就業到中老提供一站式的數位服務以及建立 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2186.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2206.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
政府任性服务环境机制推动机关资料传输安全以及建置政府各类发放作业共用基础平台另外建置数位凭证皮夹APP从开放超商储货逐步扩大应用场域提升民众对数位凭证皮夹理解便解我国民众日常生活 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2208.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2232.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
總結來說本部115年度預算案系配合政府整體施政目標秉持零基預算精神並橫著各項計畫輕重緩急優先順序妥適編列敬請各位委員鼎力支持謝謝好謝謝林部長接下來我們請自動安全署蔡署長報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2250.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2268.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
主席 各位委員今天應邀全壘報告本署115年度施政計畫重點跟預算編列情形深感榮幸首先感謝各位委員對本署業務的指導跟支持各項任務順利推動接下來請報告115年度的施政重點跟預算編列情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2268.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2294.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
那一百四十年度稅務預算八千億元結算數四百三十二萬六千九百十八億元那資金歷史百分之五四零八六那就是國家中情研究院繳回補助款採購按維繳還款等相關的繳付數那稅務部份是一百四十年度的預算數是七億五千三百四十九萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2295.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2324.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
那結算是7億366萬元 執行率是93.39%那110年度的施政計畫重點就是有相應這幾項第一項是為我們完善國家治安的應變機制然後我們積極推動資本安全管理法相關執法修正作業明確關於各項的這個治安業務的這個相關的這個法制的這個機制那第二項是有關於提升關鍵基礎設施的治安韌性那加強治安聯防跟演練的機制提升關鍵基礎設施的治安防護能量 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2325.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2351.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
三是有關於公司協力情緒分享跟交流優化台灣電腦網路危機處理中心的相關資安防護的處理量能然後持續委員國家中安全的通報應變網站履歷相關的資安的這個通報跟應變的作業那是有關於輔導跟培訓機關的相關資安的量能持續來辦理相關資安治理成熟度跟評估的機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2352.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2373.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
那第五是推動AI信心資安科技的應用跟合作應用AI強化資安治理及資安集合資料分析等等相關那呃協助民間資安廠商來相關漏洞的審查跟諮詢相關的服務那一百十年度的預算編列請請加是呃稅率編列是二十萬三千億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2374.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2401.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
那較上年度增加二四三七點五百分比那輸出部分是編列書五億一千六百四十六萬八千元那較上年度增加七億八千七億八千七百四十七萬九千元整那增加百分之九十二點五七那預算編列的情形如下一般行政兩億四千六百七十八萬七千元中央型業務十二億六千六百三十八萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2405.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2417.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
那接下來是有關於計畫的內容的這個說明主要是第一個是有關於整體政府中安全防疫技術跟系統韌性強化計畫的這個部分那這個部分主要是有這幾個一個是有關於這個打造 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2421.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2443.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
兼任安全可信任的這個國家推動相關政府的資訊系統數位安全韌性的相關的這個措施主要的效益是建立政府機關兼資訊系統共用跟整合的機制提升系統效能跟整個資源應用的效率另外也圓覽了相關的資訊專案人才來支援政府機關的強化資訊系統運作跟韌性 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2445.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2467.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
以彌補政府機關之間的數位系統的這個切口那另外是有關數位政府的資安生態防護的推動計畫那主要的效益有擴大推動調訓跟人才培育機制持續優化資安殖民的訓練內容提升我國資安實戰人力跟人力的供給那第三個是有關於政府數位韌性強化計畫那主要的效益是強化資安聯防機制接軌國際資安聯防的相關的防護趨勢 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2472.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2486.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
第四個是資安治理AI化的計畫主要的效益是盤點資安治理所需的關鍵報表跟資訊藉由相關的資料的分析加強相關的這個字畫查詢跟資料驅動的這個決策 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2488.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2509.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
那第五項是AI網路主動式防疫關鍵技術的研究那這個主要的效益是可以提高資安防疫的效能透過AI的主動防疫的技術來提升相關的威脅的預防預警等等相關的這個能力那第二項是有關於關鍵機構設施的資安防護計畫那主要效益是可以建置相關的資安團隊來擴大相關的這個關鍵機構設的這個檢測 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2514.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2530.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
那第四項是有關於數位信息分析的計劃研發那主要效益是可以提升對於數位化威脅的相關的一些應變的速度跟偵測的速度那以上是我們115年度的相關的這個整個施政的這個重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2530.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2558.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
那我們主要的目的在落實國家資本錢政策的推動相關的資安法的相關修正之後的相關的落實還有關鍵基礎說是韌性相關的公司協力還有情資的聯防等等的那另外也推進AI新興資安科技計畫的合作跟壯大我國資安產業那以上都是預算都是配合政府整體施政的目標那也希望各委員會支持跟指教謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2565.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2567.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
好 謝謝蔡署長我們接下來請數位產業署林署長報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2580.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2607.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
主席各位委員大家早那今天應邀列席會員會報告本署一百一十五年度施政的計畫重點跟預算的編列情形請深感榮幸感謝各位委員長期對本署各項業務的支持跟指教以下請就一百一十四年度預算執行情形是一百一十五年度施政重點以及預算的編列情形跟大家報告首先是一百一十四年度的預算部分稅務的部分一百一十四年稅務預算是八十萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2609.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2629.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
決算數是五千一百多萬那執行率達六千多%那主要是因為廠商違反了炸機犯罪條例以及各執法以及洗錢房執法等的花園收入那在稅出的部分114年度稅出預算是25億決算數也是25億多那執行率是98% |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2630.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2651.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
那有關115年施政重點的部分我們是依循國家西方工程等三位的政策藍圖並且配合本部要推動AI產業強化治安以及落實打造等施政主軸我們來擬定我們115年的施政重點包括第一完善國家數位的產業的發展基礎主要是建立算力來增加算力池並且輔導知乎業去發展雲端服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2655.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2681.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
並且透過數位建模 數位雙聲等應用來這個支援公共及產業的需求另外也要系統性的培育數位人才縮短這個產權落差第二是普及AI的創新應用的部分我們協助業者投入AI技術的開發我們會整合工協會 服務業及地方資源來擴大AI的產業的效益另外我們持續推動AI以國際標準的接軌以及相關的認驗證的體系來加速這個可信任AI的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2685.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2698.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
我們也會應用自動機科技另外透過公司協力來強化堵炸跟堵炸的機制另外我們也會建立通報查詢來對可疑訊息的處理第三個是推動資安產業發展來強化產業資安的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2701.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2710.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
我們會發展臺灣的資安的關鍵技術並且深化自主資安的能力另外透過培育資安的實戰人才我們也會搭配企業的資安檢測驗證輔導等來強化企業在的相關的防護機制另外我們也會輔導產業資安來合規以便打入國際公立另外我們也會導入資安認驗證的制度跟標準來提升產業的防疫運變能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2726.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2743.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
第四是我們要強化這世代通訊技術的發展我們會加速業者來提升他們5G專屏專網的整合技術另外我們也會結合衛星通訊AI模組等跟業界一起開發具商業用的價值跟應用服務並且我們會建立試驗的場域 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2745.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2753.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
第五 佈局前瞻科技的部分我們會推動高齡科技跟在宅醫療的應用我們會導入輔具 永續照護等來符合現場照護的需求並且帶動基層醫療結構的 醫療機構的數位轉型另外我們也會發展智慧機器人的軟體整合AI感測 邊緣預算等導入包括醫療 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2767.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2782.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
路流跟生活道路等服務業的場域那在115年預算編列的情形在稅務的部分稅務的預算編列是98萬那叫上年度那個80萬增加了17萬多主要是要收回前年度計劃的結預款 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2784.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2792.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
那在稅出的部分115年度稅出的編列是59億多那較上年度25億多增加了33億增加了130%那以下跟個委員報告第一個是一般行政我們編列2億7千多萬主要是維持這個本屬人員的維持的維持費用跟基本的行政的費用那較上年度2億6千多萬增加了339萬約大概1.26%主要是減類的這個營運基租金等等的 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2813.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2819.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
另外我們陣列的調整待遇行政事務等537萬另外在數位創新動能的這個部分我們編列56億教生年度的預算23億增加了33億約增加145%我們依序來說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2829.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2855.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
首先是我們資通訊數位服務升級的這個部分我們編列27億較上年度19億 增加19億主要辦理幾項工作第一個是知乎業的數位轉型的雲服務的推廣 等計畫我們編列了19億但是我們也減類了這個數位共榮這個1900多萬但增列了智慧與靈就是有關跟智慧跟這個健康商務產業的一個聯合的相關的部分我們編列13億多 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2858.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2881.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
再來第二個是辦理數位產業的跨域軟體機盤等計劃我們編列了7億5千多萬 較上年度增加了5億3千多萬第二個是策進數位跨域應用的部分我們編列29億 較上年度增加14億主要是辦理這個產業的AI的針對中小企業辦理去推動產業AI便利工具的以及補助計劃的17億多 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2884.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2911.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
另外有簡列的沙倫智慧智能等4千多萬 增列智慧城市等計畫9億多 進增加的是9億5千多萬那第二我們辦理金創計畫的AI相關的計畫我們編列4億多 較上年度增加了5千多萬另外我們智慧防炸還是編列3億多 跟上年度一樣另外的話智慧城鄉 呃 呃 城鄉建模跟數位雙生我們編列了4億多 較上年度增加了4億3千多萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2912.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2939.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
那EDU已經我們編列了300萬左右跟上年度一樣那結局的部分是本署負責推動數位經濟產業發展的重責大任所以我們會有一些補助業者進行AI 治安 知乎等創新技術解決方案的研發我們其實也會獎勵獨立遊戲開發業者去開發屬於臺灣特色的產品另外我們推動百光百焰普及AI的應用還有一些新興的科技包括衛星包括智慧機器人相關的技術的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2940.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2954.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
所以我們希望配合一百一十五年主要是配合政府的市政目標我們也衡量了這個計畫的輕重環節我們敬請各位來可以支持並祝各位身體健康事務委員謝謝大家好我們謝謝林署長那我們接下來請NCC通傳會陳代理主委報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
2975.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
2994.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
主席各位委員大家早今天應邀列席就通常會115年度單位預算與附儲單位預算案提出報告感謝各位委員對通常會各項業務的支持與指教以下僅就115年度施政重點與預算編列內容以及114年度預算執行情形提出檢要報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
2997.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3016.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
1.115年度施政重點本會依據行政院115年度施政方針及經濟社會情勢變化編定施政計畫因應科技匯流鼓勵創新服務及技術發展促進通信傳播市場公平競爭及產業健全保障消費者利益建構多元與普及的通信傳播經營環境 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3018.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3026.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
提升广电节目品质与新闻专业自主强化媒体自律机制保障国民通信传播权益以下请做重点 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3027.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3047.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
摘要報告一鼓勵通訊傳播新技術及服務發展因數位匯流趨勢建構傳播產業健全發展法治環境本會透過法規適度調整引導產業正向發展並延參先進國家電信設備技術標準及審驗規定修訂我國電信設備技術規範測試程序及審驗規定提升我國電信設備審驗品質同時 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3056.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3084.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
本會將我國電信及設備省運經驗與亞太地區經濟體主管機關分享以深化我國與亞太地區各經濟體間的合作促進我國與亞太地區電信產業發展二 促進通信傳播市場公平有效競爭及產業健全隨著全球自通信技術發展日益千里逐步實現產業數位化本會檢討特定電信服務市場導入不對稱管制的必要性 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3085.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3102.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
依據特定電信服務市場界定結果採取相應的電信營運監理策略作為促進產業健全發展並持續進行整體通常產業觀測例如AI通常技術應用服務防炸策略等產業發展與監理趨勢及市場調查注意 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3107.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3115.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
政策破壞維護消費者權益三保障國民通訊權益本會精進有線電視技術監理收集歐美 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3116.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3126.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
日韓、新加坡等國法規研究國際有線電視工程技術發展趨勢辦理有線電視系統節目音量實測驗證並重新規劃有線電視網路頻譜資源分配與利用輔導業者開創平台多元應用帶動數位經濟與智慧生活保障通訊傳播服務的消費者權益本會辦理電信事業賬戶作業查核並 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3143.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3166.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
督責電信事業落實用戶資料的查核與登錄作業以保障用戶權益並依行政院核定新世代打擊炸機行動綱領2.0強化機關協力提升防制電信詐騙功效參與行政院資安匯報及內政部法務部高檢署刑事局等多個防制電信炸機跨部會平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3167.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3188.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
對於利用電信服務所行使詐騙將與電信事業公司協力導入AI技術辦理攔阻及警示機制有效遏止詐騙案件及保障民眾財產安全五 建構普及的通信傳播經營環境促進多元文化均衡發展本會願意有限電視發展基金根據辦理補助偏遠及離島地區有限電視普及發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3190.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3207.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
並推廣有線電視數位加值服務及自播推廣地方文化節目促進地方多元文化發展與紮根與潮讓民眾享受更優質更多元的有線電視收視品質及內容六提升廣電節目品質及新聞專業自主強化媒體自律機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3209.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3233.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
本會透過辦理廣電從業人員專業訓練,提升業者掌握法規內容,並增進其法律及自律知能,以提升新聞專業自主及強化自律機制,並輔導業者提升節目品質與從業人員的專業素養,上進媒體社會責任。為使各界了解電視新聞頻道播送情形,本會定期發布電視新聞報導、觀測報告及傳播監體報告,以促進社會對廣電媒體表現的了解, |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3240.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3263.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
其強化公民投入及參與媒體內容監理、促進媒體治癒公私協力完善網路治理本會就我國社會大眾對網際網路傳播議題的意向進行調查了解國人態度、網路素養程度及相關變化趨勢作為本會推動政策及各部會涉及網際網路傳播法令修訂的意見參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3264.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3284.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
并透过召开多方利害关系人会议让平台业者建立沟通桥梁办理多元课程与活动强化民众网络素养能力同时透过申诉系统的运作与相关主管机关合作落实网络内容防护机制二100亿数年度预算编列情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3285.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3301.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
第一部分單位預算部分稅入2.37億較上年度減少2300多萬主要是減劣增長費及許可費稅出部分編列7.7億較上年度增加3400多萬主要是增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3302.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3325.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
新建構別樣5G、6G及低軌衛星發展政策計畫、增業人士費、土地租金及中央華光特惡辦公廳設新建等相關經費二、通訊傳播監督管理基金附屬單位預算的部分基金來源4.7億較上年度增加3000多萬主要是規費收入分配由14%提高到15% |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3327.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3341.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
基金用途部分編列5.10億較上年度增加300多萬主要去增列基礎設施經理計畫委託辦理設備省運費以上基金來源及用途相抵後短處3500多萬較上年度預算減少2700多萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3345.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3361.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
三有限基金部分基金來源2.6億較上年度預算減少900多萬主要是有限金是收入提繳參佐以前年度決算進行辦理繳費所致有限基金的用途部分編列2.64億較上年度減少 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3364.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3380.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
500多萬主要是配合提繳收入減少簡略撥付地方政府及捐贈公司計畫的經費以上年度經費來源及用途相抵後有限基金剩餘230多萬較上年度減少約388萬114年度預算執行情形請委員參閱書面資料結語本會115年度單位預算案通常基金及有限基金 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3391.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3418.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
需基於有效推動本會業務 申請本會職責的前提下予以妥適規劃編列懇請各位委員先進對本會預算案所列各項計畫及經費予以支持與指教 謝謝好 謝謝我們全部主委補充介紹在場委員 陳慶隆委員李崑哲委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3421.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3445.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
好請問各位委員對於議事錄有沒有意見好沒有意見議事錄確定我們先進行詢答先宣告以下事項詢答時間初期委員6加2分鐘列席委員4加1分鐘委員發言登記於10點30分截止各位委員如果有提案請於10點前提出以便議事人員會診我們暫定10點30分休息10分鐘現在請登記第一位委員萬美玲委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3456.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3460.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
好 謝謝趙偉 我們先有請速發部的林怡靜部長好 謝謝秦 林部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3467.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3485.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
委員早安好 部長早部長在上個禮拜的時候有一個互動資通公司是它旗下有一個企業的簡訊平台Everybody是那在5月26號的那一天呢它發出一個聲明我覺得這個聲明本席看起來覺得非常嚴重喔是它表示呢它遭到了駭客的入侵 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3485.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3505.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
而且這個駭客還在暗網當中去販售相關的個資那重要的是這個簡訊公司它在全台灣市佔率是第一所以它的服務對象涵蓋著銀行、政府機關、上市櫃企業、醫療院所甚至於一般民眾也非常的多所以以上這些項目我們就知道涵蓋的影響層面非常的廣 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3508.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3532.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
那麼這個速發部在5月30本席也看到你發了一個新聞稿說你會在6月2號到該公司做行政檢查同時你會去要求這個業者說如果資料有洩漏的話那應該要儘速讓當事人知悉然後讓當事人方便採取補救的措施那你也說了說請他們要發布治安的警訊讓我們的政府機關去評估這個風險還有回報的處理情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3535.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3542.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
看似在這個新聞稿上好像做了一些完整的回應跟處理但是我覺得當中還有很多地方是需要來檢討的第一個呢影響這麼大的一個簡訊平台他被害了他自己在5月26號發布聲明5月26號那一天如果沒有記錯應該是禮拜二吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3554.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3574.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
還是上班時間內但是速發部一直在5月29號其實本席當時辦公室跟速發部反映這件事情並要求是不是能讓我們了解一下速發部對這件事情的處理跟了解的狀況到哪裡但是部長很遺憾的是速發部的同仁回覆我辦公室說這不是我們的業務可能要問經濟部 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3576.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3596.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
這就像過去本席所說的常常抒發部遇到一些狀況的時候都說哎呀這是警政署那我就比較不理解就抒發部如果遇到事情同仁都說要嘛就是警政署沒有處理好要嘛可能是經濟部來處理那我不知道抒發部扮演的角色是什麼那再來既然5月29號那天就跟你提完以後所以5月30我們看到這個新聞稿出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3599.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3606.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
對於回復本席的這個要求算快但是對於5月26號這件這麼重大一個私安事件來說我覺得有一點慢到離譜所以我想請問一下部長5月26號那個時間點您這裡第一時間有沒有掌握 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3618.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3636.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
OK 這件事情我們的確速發部有改進的空間因為26號這個事情發生以後的確一開始我們的許多同仁們對於說這個事情的責任歸屬到底是誰就是說花了一些時間在討論後來我知道以後我就馬上跟他們講說不管這個事情是怎樣我們先處理我們這邊速發部該處理的就處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3639.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3663.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
那委員也看到我們在後來就是應該就是5月30號就發布那個新聞稿那個就是我要求我們同仁馬上就去處理先不要管說這個事情到底是書發布是通傳會或者經濟部以我們政府來講就是一體的該處理就是處理那件事情的話就是如同我們在新聞稿裡面我們分三方面來處理第一個就是我們去做這個我剛剛本席已經說過了那重點是5月26號那個時間第一時間你們有沒有掌握 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3668.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3696.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
我們這個事情是有掌握只是因為這個是一個簡訊代發的平台那簡訊代發平台他的作業過程是說他的客戶把這個電話就因為他是一個簡訊代發的平台你要知道有多少個資在他的手上這非常嚴重的嘛沒錯好 那麼你發了這三個聲明說我要做這三項措施喔那第一個喔你說6月2號要到這家公司做行政檢查那不曉得現在檢查的情況是怎麼樣是 這件事情我們是不是請那個庶產署署長來說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3698.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3720.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
重點說明好嗎那我簡單的說明就是我們612有去那也有發現這個是個自然事件那他這個自然事件有沒有攻擊到有保存各自的伺服器的話目前的資料還沒辦法知道所以我們正在請他補充資料我們要來釐清他有沒有各自外洩的一個情況那目前他目前所提供的資料所以你們是到他公司去還是電話聯絡我們是到他公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3723.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3742.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
有沒有又請了法律、資安專家 目前我們請了法律、資安專家跟著刑事警察局也去了那目前他的資料還沒辦法判斷 無法掌握那所以如果我今天要請教一下說到現在為止啊到底知道有多少企業或有多少這些使用的人那他的資料被外洩我們現在是一無所知是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3743.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3758.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
目前的資料沒有辦法判斷不過應該行政警察局那邊還沒有接到相關的這個各自外線的通報所以我們目前也是在緊鑼密鼓的要求廠商提供資料緊鑼密鼓嗎是我們請他進駐提供資料我們要來釐清是 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3759.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3786.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
好應該這樣講啦就是我們洋洋灑灑的說這三大點要做但是呢我們到底就是做了沒有做到什麼程度得到什麼樣的效益喔而不是新聞稿發了就沒有了那再來我想請教一下剛剛有提到嘛部長我們現在有很多的這個政府單位也跟這家公司是有合作的不曉得速發部有沒有掌握我們現在有多少的這個政府單位這個機關是跟他們有合作的那這當中有沒有這個資料外洩 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3787.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3804.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
我們現在最關心的就是說目前公務門有26個公務門使用他們的服務非公務部門有695個總共他們有721個主要客戶這個是我們掌握到的您可以再說一次嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3806.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3829.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
有26個公務部門是使用他們的服務但是我們現在最重要就是111那個簡訊政府的簡訊並沒有用他們的所以這個是很多民眾最關心的一部分那個部長我其實覺得你的同仁平常跟你相處的好嗎還算不錯吧還算不錯那我怎麼覺得常常他提供給你的資料跟提供本辦的資料都是不一致的 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3832.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3842.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
這個我不知道提供是什麼資料請說明他到底是對您不滿還是對我辦公室不滿應該不至於吧現在我手上看到的資料就是你現在跟政府機關合作的其實有68個機關對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3845.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3852.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
跟委員報告就是說68個機關是我們從政府機關那邊他們請他們去回報的那剛剛部長報告的是說是我們去調查那個互動之中所提供的資料所以這個並不是說資料來源是一樣的你要把它整合好給部長啊那因為時間的關係不一樣因為我們是在上禮拜 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3865.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3887.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
不管是什麼原因你都要給一個正確的數字嘛那這很嚴重啊如果我們政府部門我們自己的機關到底有多少在使用這家平台而這家平台是被害了政府部門這國家安全耶是不是這樣的數字你們提供給部長跟提供給本辦委員辦公室都是不一致的那你往下面你怎麼查怎麼確定你將來查的資訊是正確的所以我覺得這個以後不可以發生喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3892.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3919.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
資料資訊是怎麼樣你要整合好再給部長不要讓部長在這裡每一次打詢這個資料都有出錯我覺得這樣是不對的好不好所以你告訴本辦說我們現在有68個機關那目前有36個機關去把它停用了另外有32個機關也進行了這個簡訊平台密碼的一個更新那本席要講的就是說如果只是進行密碼更新足不足以應付這一次駭客這個入侵我想書發部部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3922.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
3922.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
好 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
3922.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
3952.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
這個回頭內部可能還要螺絲拴緊一點那蘇發布作為我們資訊安全的中央主管機關有這樣的事情我覺得第一時間要掌握好不好接下來呢也是很重要的事情我們這個Facebook跟這個IG的某公司Meta嘛他現在被美國加州告上法院這事情部長知道而且呢他說了Meta公司是在知情的情況下刻意的從大量詐騙廣告中獲取巨額收益 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
3952.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
3966.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
甚至於在Meta公司自己外流的內部文件當中都還有透露說這個費用他還把它列為違規收入那甚至於提到說Meta內部有一套機制只要這個反詐騙抓得太兇會影響到他這筆收入的話這個系統就會自動降低詐騙的查核力道 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
3972.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
3974.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
我覺得這件事非常嚴重我們看到近年來台灣的詐騙可以說是人人深惡痛絕成熟不窮那現在看到從這個Meta的IG很多的假投資假名人代言或電商購物等等許多人都被騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
3989.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4009.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
我們在看到警政署的詐騙儀表板上面他說平均每一天被詐騙的金額高達超過1億甚至本席看了一下在6月1號當日就破了1億6千萬的被詐騙的金額所以非常可怕那訴法部看起來部長剛才針對Meta現在被告到法院去是知道的 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4011.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4023.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
這個非常不應該我們的立場非常嚴重我們這個立場事實上跟加州這個法院事實上是一樣的過去在一年多以來我們也是我們也對META的一些行為我們開罰而且我們跟他強力的溝通認為他們不應該這樣做 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4026.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4050.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
當然不應該啊 絕對不應該啊但是呢現在是這樣講喔我們都知道不管在台灣或者是在美國手上法律有點曠日廢時啦所以呢現在大家判決出來之前有空窗嘛那這個空窗你要怎麼去應對這件事情基本上是從兩方面一方面是透過美國政府的溝通因為在過去一年多以來每次遇到那個美國政府的官員或者是那個國會議員來台灣的時候提到就是說台灣對於這個反那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4054.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4072.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
假訊息還有詐騙訊息的怎樣應處的時候我總是可以跟他們提到這件事情就是說我們現在一個很大的問題來源就是來自於貴國的那個Meta這家公司那另外我們也透過這個輿論的力量就是包含美國的輿論我們就是要要求Meta他一定要改善那我們也去跟他做道德勸說這個商業道德勸說 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4075.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4096.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
我聽起來就是你不斷在呼籲跟道德勸說我們實際上已經要求他有改進了但是這個呼籲跟道德勸說看起來力道還是不太夠他們現在已經用他們的AI去訓練以後去主動去移除去年到夏天就已經移除了780萬則我同意還是要有作為啦但是我們去看喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4096.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4117.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
不管我們行政院打詐中心我們就像您剛剛說的我們要求Meta可能還要修改他的演算法他可能要去重複詐騙內容這個識別的機制建立官方身份驗證等等我們都有在做但是第一個Meta到底有沒有遵守第二個Meta到底做了多少我們要求他做到100分那他做了百分之多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4117.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4145.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
是 我們現在對他們的那個作為還是不是很滿意但是至少是他有在進步了就如同我剛才講的去年7月他們就已經跟我們講說他們已經下架針對台灣的詐騙訊息已經下架780萬則那現在已經又過了一年那部長就像您講的就像您說的我們有要求但是我們也不太滿意但你身上有一個武器我怕你忘記了我當然提醒你一下你看依照現行的詐欺犯罪危害防治條例當中我們有規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4146.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4165.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
就是網路這個廣告平台業者他應該要去揭露廣告刊登跟出資者相關的訊息如果有這種詐騙的那他應該要去主動下架但是如果沒有做到的話我們可以處罰他那違法我們可以出50萬到1000萬以下的罰款可是情節重大的話我們可以處罰新台幣250萬到1億以下的罰款那你開罰了多少次 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4170.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4189.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
我們現在4次了開發多少金額17850萬這樣算多嗎不算多我們這個不能說是多也是少因為這個事情就是依法去處理但是也跟委員報告現在其實最討厭的是說因為我們這個法律都是管廣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4190.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4214.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
但是他現在一些詐騙已經流竄到Thread平台上面Thread平台上面那不是廣告那是UGC User Generated Content我們法律事實上沒辦法去處罰那個地方那個地方也是全世界所有的政府覺得最頭大的一些部分因為我們必須在打詐跟保護民眾的言論自由當中我們取得一個平衡點好 部長如果我理解我想最後一點提醒你一下因為我已經超過時間蠻久了 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4216.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4241.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
這個Meta被起訴的這個文件當中我們看到一個數字就是他的違規收入其實高達了兩千兩百億台幣所以我們現在這樣罰他就四次然後就一千八百五十萬我覺得對他來說不痛不癢沒有這個罰還的這個大刀在手上我希望大刀闊斧如果真的有這個情節重大該重罰就要重罰那不要輕重好不好是 謝謝委員的支持好 以上謝謝 加油啦謝謝好 謝謝外媒連委員的發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4246.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4249.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
接下來我們請陳青榮委員發言好 謝謝召委麻煩我們國家中心傳播委員會陳代理主委好 請陳代理主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4271.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4297.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
委員長好 陳代理主委早我這邊先有一件人事案跟你確定一下我們行政院昨天有核定我們NCC我們的人事調眾有沒有這件事情有有嘛就我所了解是我們原來的祖密 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4299.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4308.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
黃祖密刁鎮參事,那祖密是由我們中規處的溫處長來挑選為祖密,對不對?是,沒錯好,那我請問陳代理主委,這樣的人事調動是你所提的嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4319.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4348.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
是你決定的嗎是我們提建議權那因為根據這個人事組織的相關規定是行政院來核定這樣你提的建議權嘛然後報給行政院來核定嘛沒有人指示你嘛是你所提的那我請教你你的任期應該到哪時候會結束到七月三十一七月三十一號結束那你在結束之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4349.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4371.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
在NCC的人事調動大幅的調動我剛剛只是舉例我們的主祕要任參事 處長審主祕其他的一起都調動請問一下你為什麼要做這樣的調動在你任期剩下一個多月是這些人是這個問處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4374.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4398.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
你跟他組的不錯,所以趕快把他升組密然後原來的組密跟你不好,把他冰起來,這調查人士嗎?跟總召報告,其實組密跟這些主管,其實我們到相組都密切合作對,都很好,都很好那你為什麼在你即將卸任之前,你來做這麼大幅度的調動? |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4399.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4422.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
更總的報告就是因為我們要增加十二指等相關同仁的一些歷練那因為黃主任大概應該是明年後年大概也要退休了我們必須要在經營上有所傳承所以我們所以陳代理主委你對NCC的使命非常重大雖然你剩下一個多月的任期 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4423.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4449.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
你還是使命非常的重大 對不對所以你願意為NCC的人士做這樣大幅的一個調動那我先問你既然你對NCC有這麼重大的使命那我們NCC的委員啊一直到現在還沒有提行政院也不提人選你有沒有跟行政院來提出啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4450.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4468.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
跟總統報告有我們有跟行政院提了幾次應該至少三次以上至少三次本席在三月份的時候也跟你提到嘛那本人在總執行了也跟院長也執行了那你對 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4469.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4498.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
既然對NCC這麼有使命感那這個NCC的委員一直沒辦法來補齊那我們也面臨七月底就團妹嘛就整團全部的委員通通離職了那NCC在沒有委員的情況之下你在昨天做這樣的調眾在昨天由行政院來核定 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4499.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4517.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
那我想請教那會不會延伸成我們檢查總長的這樣的一個案例到時候ACC通通沒有委員就由我們的主任秘書來代理主任委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4521.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4529.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
你覺得有可能嗎 會不會是做這樣的安排我在這邊就做這樣的一個猜測 一個揣測 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4531.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4557.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
是不是要做這樣的安排跟總召報告根據我們NCC的組織法第五條規定就是政府主委均出缺或者無法行使職權時行政院指定委員來代理對 一定要委員嘛主任委員沒有 副主任委員沒有才由行政院指定委員嘛所以照你現在的一個講法是不可能由組密來代理 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4561.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4579.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
但是條文沒有明明講說如果沒有委員的時候要怎麼處理對啊 條文沒有講啊如果沒有委員的時候是不是就由組密來代理今天這樣的人事安排就是有這樣的基礎我在這邊就做這樣的揣測 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4582.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4602.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
NCC是獨立機關今天你代理主委你今天要做到你有風骨在你卸任一個多月前你來配合行政院做這樣的人事安排準備複製檢查從長的一個模式我想我們在這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4604.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4616.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
我們是認為陳在立主委你真的是很優秀但是在最後如果來做這樣的人事安排我們真的對你有所遺憾 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4617.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4642.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
跟總召報告那因為在NCD介紹有個4-613號解釋理由說國家所有行政事務是由最高位階層控制的你都了解啦你的無奈這個我會了解的那我在這邊請教我們現在預算在審查嘛預算在審查所以今天的垂行我就請教了 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4644.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4658.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
那我們NCC的預算要怎麼來省 已經停擺在一起嘛七月底團妹 然後現在要省他NCC的一個預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4660.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4677.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
那我請教陳代理主委那再來的審查預算是不是要由我們剛申任為我們主任的溫祖密亞來作為預算的審查的一個報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4678.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4706.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
跟說明最後預算的執行也是要由剛升任的溫祖密亞來做預算執行的一個擔當跟負責是不是這樣跟我們報告8月1號以後NCC的機關首長是誰這個是還是未知數這邊我沒有辦法評論但是就是說同仁在自己的職位上該做什麼事情都該做那預算的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4706.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4710.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
因為是屬於我跟代理主委講預算我們委員我們委員會也會盡責的審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4715.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4738.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
但是這樣的一個人事調動 我認為我們NCC的一個尊嚴 當然無存 那我在這裡也要再次的強調NCC作為我國通信 傳播監理的核心機關 攸關國家安全 打炸防制 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4739.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4755.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
媒體的監理跟通訊的資訊 其正常運作本來就是NCC最基本的一個責任當行政院刻意的一個擺爛 直不提名委員 嚴重的怠惰 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4756.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4774.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
如今甚至可能一腳踩破NCC獨立機關的顏面直接深入政治的黑手身為獨立機關的代理首長我們稱代理主委NCC已經面臨生死的存亡 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4775.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4798.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
期待陳代理主委你拿出你應有的態度在最後的任期當中應該要拒絕這樣政治性質介入的人事安排並向行政院再次的請命應該儘速的提出NCC委員的人選這樣也才能夠讓我們社會 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4802.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4825.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
能夠看到我們NCC的獨立風骨好 謝謝委員後半部分的NCC的委員提名部分我會持續跟行政院方面來澄清反應好 謝謝謝謝總召 謝謝委員好 謝謝我們曾慶隆總召的發言謝謝存在的諸位接下來我們請李崑哲委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4833.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4836.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
謝謝趙偉 請一下林益進部長好 請林部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4846.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4863.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
委員長部長好電子菸是新興毒品的一個核心的載具那我們看到衛福部國民健康署在1至4月有公布了一個官方的統計這個統計就是說針對網路違法販售電子菸他有進行監測下架了11425件的商品而且他針對境內外 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4877.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4896.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
違法網站實施了3361件的停止解析DNS的封鎖其實就是下架啦 沒錯那帳面的下架率啊他們官方的說法是99.3%那其實我們看到他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4897.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4914.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
下架率 帳面的下架率說是99.3%但是實質的流通率啊 帳面下下架率跟實質流通率我認為是有很大的落差啦那因為我們看到檢警跟法務單位啊針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4916.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
4927.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
近期查獲的一坨米子就是俗稱的喪屍煙彈是他這種新興毒品的案件最近的呈現 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
4929.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
4951.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
他是不減緩針啊 是不減緩針那我們看到很多起的毒價造成嚴重的傷亡案件也引起啊社會的憤怒跟討論 是那這顯示這種電子菸作為新興毒品的核心載具啊在黑市跟網路平台的實質流通率啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
4952.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
4969.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
已經不是現行的這些行政下架措施會得到有效的意志來讓你說明一下是委員說的沒錯那我們知道現在在網路上這些賣電子菸或者是一些違法的毒品的這些還是在發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
4971.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5000.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
這些在賣這些違法的電子菸和毒品的人他當然不會在網路上直接寫說我要請問你要不要賣買電子菸或者請問你要不要買伊托米紙他一定會用他的所謂的黑話譬如說他這個電子菸的那個菸具他叫做叫做主機那我們就是通知那個所有電商平台就是做關鍵字的那個那個封鎖事實上這個是衛福部給我們所以現在那個你在網路上在一些電商平台上你搜尋主機他可能跟你講說沒辦法然後一些那個毒品 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5001.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5029.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
就叫糖果所以是有一陣子我不知道現在是不是還是這樣就是說為服務通知就是所有這些電商透過我們通知電商平台就是網路上不能出現糖果這個單那個關鍵字那這個就是事實上所有這些這些問題都是貓捉老鼠的問題那我們必須取得一個平衡我們不能說過度的限制譬如說我在網路上真的就通常連糖果一般正常的糖果都買不到部長我要提醒你你也提到貓捉老鼠 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5030.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5049.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
目前數位部我認為只是採取打地鼠的這種執法的方式有沒有其他的這些防制的措施我們現在看到雖然數位部一直說要下架這些電子煙那相關的這些違法的販售網站 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5050.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5067.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
還是春風吹又生那我們現在所採取這些違法網站你用這種停止解析就是下架的處分只是一種事後的被動的一種追緝而已新興毒品的這些電子菸的賣家 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5068.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5086.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
他們其實數位能力也不會比你們差啦因為他利用這種境外的免洗網域以及自動化的動態的DNS的這種轉子啊他在原網址被你們下架被你們封鎖的幾分鐘之內 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5087.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5105.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
它就在境外的伺服器無縫的重建網站那目前這種防治措施你們到底有什麼改善的方式那我們也希望說現在我們行政院也要提出相關的這一種 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5107.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5119.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
陰害防治法的修正草案就是要增訂網際網路業者風險管控機制要增訂這個部分其實我要提醒部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5121.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5137.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
電子業的權責機構是衛福部但是相關的主管相關下架的機關是數位部網路平台這些技術本質或是實名制或者是相關的這種跨境的管轄權 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5139.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5157.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
核心的主政業務都是在數位部那未來我們要針對這些修正你們相關的預計的執行計畫是怎樣來簡單說明一下事實上委員剛剛已經指出幾個重點第一個是跨境第二個就是春風吹又生的這個問題因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5158.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5173.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
他那個一個網站如果被我們用DNS、RPG的方式把它封住了他就趕快再去設一個新網站所以我們現在那個能做的事情就是跟他比速度現在只要衛福部通知我們的那個TWNIC我們現在是在兩個小時之內就會馬上下架 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5174.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5202.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
所以那個就是說我們想衛福部那邊當然還有發現還有他那個認定的這個時間但是只要他一通知我們兩個小時就讓他下架就讓他每一個網站他存活的時間越短越好因為一個網站被下架以後他去建立一個新網站不需要那麼多時間但是他通知他的潛在客戶說我設立一個新的網站這個需要很長的時間通常至少要一兩個禮拜這些客戶才會知道說他設立一個新的網站但是我們這邊只要兩個小時 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5204.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5222.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
你必須要更積極有效的防範這些合法的販售網站在被你們封鎖下架之後它很快的在幾分鐘之內就可以無縫的重建一個同樣的網站你們到底有什麼更具體的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5222.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5241.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
那你相關的我剛才請教林部長就是有關於這些網路業者相關的風險管理機制你們到底要怎麼有效去執行我們另外一個做法就是利用AI的技術去做網路的巡檢我們就是用AI去網路上去巡查說有這些可疑的譬如說他用的這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5241.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5264.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
那個語言啊譬如說糖果啊 煮雞啊這個雖然那個一些他們的黑話那個如果發現有類似的話我們就主動會去讓那個我們會跟衛福部合作主動讓他們知道說有這些可疑的網站請他們趕快去檢查我們就一樣就是縮短所有這些那個非法的網站它的存活時間然後縮短我們發現所需要的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5266.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5283.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
部長你的責任非常重大你除了相關的數位的產業以及資安的這些防範更重要在打砸方面以及現在新興毒品的這一種重要的核心載具就是這種電子菸的插器下架 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5284.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5303.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
必須要有更明確的成績讓社會大眾來檢驗那我們除了這些之外一信卡現在也成為一種數位洗錢的新形態那我們看到一信卡跟傳統的點數詐騙結合低價的這種代購的囂張那我們看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5309.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5326.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
有很多的這種 炸團啊 它利用合法的電信加值業者來假造啊 數千萬元的一信的訂單利用這種高度的 高度的客製化 但是啊 它又 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5328.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5356.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
它又沒有需要這種實體的物流因為它只需要QR Code就可以了那這種特性它來自由的定價那在於支付海外供應商的名利將巨額的資金合法的匯往海外境外那最後再轉帳或者是兌換虛擬貨幣它其實徹底切斷了國內的這種金流的追查 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5356.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5385.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
另外就是傳統點數卡的詐騙他現在也結合第三方低價的代儲業者那將被害人購買的點數以四到六折來囂張變現那其實我們在目前的管理我認為有兩大的這樣的一個漏洞第一個就是缺乏預警的一個機制第二個就是沒有落實平台的監督 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5387.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5398.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
缺乏預警機制就是說像這種一信卡竟然出現了單一的一信卡的賣場單月的銷售達到70萬筆但是卻沒有什麼評價的這種離譜的現象平台業者掌握大數據他們這種高數量的 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5412.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5427.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
賣出卻是低評價沒有人去針對這個有什麼評價就是有問題就是速發部跟金融監管機關啊那個eSIM卡跟SIM卡是NCC這邊主管的不是速發部主管的來NCC也說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5433.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5457.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
跟委員報告一性大概有兩種是本國電信業者發行的還是國外電信業者或者國外MVMO發行的那聽剛剛委員的質詢聽起來應該是國外的電信業者所發行的因為本國要發行一定是要做KYC所以這邊因為它這種高額而且是純數位沒有實體物流的跨境貿易它出現這種金流與物流的 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5458.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5473.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
不服啊他的一場申報跟難解機制是有問題那林部長我還是要請教你也讓NCC來做個說明之外那蘇哈部在過去都是著重防範消費的詐騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5474.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5496.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
那他並沒有強制這些電商平台落實數位賣家的身份審查就是KYC以及洗錢的這種通報的機制那所以我要請教你們有什麼更好的處理方式我們有這種第三方的 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5497.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5520.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
的這種相關的機制嗎事實上委員講到一個重點因為我們國人事實上也都知道去國外的網站去買這個eSIM卡事實上有很高的資安風還有各自的風險但是現在就是目前的法律還是說國內的那個三大電信公司他要賣eSIM卡都必須做那個事實的查核還得臨櫃去辦理但是在海外的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5521.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5547.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
那個eSIM卡去購買的時候並沒有做KYC這個部分所以這個地方我們會跟那個NCC密切合作就是說因為民眾因為為了圖方便還有那個圖那個價錢低去買海外的這個eSIM卡這是非常危險的那海外的這個eSIM卡因為這個是在海外而且這個eSIM卡在海外它也不是說違法的這個我們的確是比較那個比較難去管所以我們是希望說跟NCC合作讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5548.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5564.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
國內這個合法的eSIM卡的那個申辦流程簡化而且它的價格降低那這樣子國人知道說有國內跟國外的可以選擇那他一定會選擇國內因為國內的eSIM卡比較安全部長我還是再次提醒你像這種電子菸的 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5567.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5582.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
權責機關當然是衛福部但是主管下架以及相關的這些平台的技術本質或者是相關的跨境的這一種管轄權或者是相關的實名制都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5583.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5598.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
蘇花部的一個重要的職責這種異性卡也是一樣相關的業務當然是NCC但是有關於換售的這些平台的處理啊以及相關的這些點數卡的問題啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5600.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5628.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
蘇發部跟NCC必須要密切的來討論更好的機制來保障國人的權益是 跟委員補充報告20秒上次其實在4月份在院會的時候也有香港委員提問這個國內並三大業者發行異性的部分只要是既有業既有用戶的話其實它不用零貴了這部分那個效率已經改善了但是價格上因為國外的很多都是有些是特殊國家它的成本相對比較低但是本國業者發行異性現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5629.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5643.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
既有用戶的話其實不用領貴了已經在 我們已經開過會必須提出更有效的一個做法以上好 謝謝委員好 謝謝李昆哲委員 謝謝部長跟主委我們接下來請侯孟楷委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5655.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5661.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
主席謝謝,麻煩請我們林部長跟NCC代理陳主委好,請林部長跟陳代理主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5667.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5691.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
好幾個議題快速再一次請教其實剛剛部長講很多委員都關心電子菸獨駕的問題很嚴重因為電子菸最重要是它不只是違法的工具它更是現在有可能是毒品吸食的載具是但剛剛部長我必須要糾正你一件事不是只有所謂的黑化這個本席從過去到現在已經質詢了很多次 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5691.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5716.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
甚至不用黑化只要打電子煙三個字就可以搜尋得到這才是本席覺得最離譜的事情好 那我請教如果說一個搜尋引擎他都可以讓不用黑化或說他隨意只要打你剛剛講這個關鍵字就可以搜尋得到這個違法的網站來販售的話那個平台有沒有責任平台有沒有責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5718.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5730.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
對 譬如說我也之前也跟委員講就是說譬如說我們今天就要討論電子菸那如果說Google把這個電子菸的關鍵字通通屏蔽掉的話那我們今天的對話也那個Google也搜尋不到平台有沒有責任沒有 這個這個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5733.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5753.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
平台當然是要想辦法配合我們這個合作但是如果說在做關鍵字封鎖這個事情基本上從過去到現在本市已經提出來了嘛本市已經強調了嘛如果說你今天你平台要收費我相信這一些違法的業者他也有付費給平台他的關鍵字才會跑到前面嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5754.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5768.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
那一樣啊如果說平台今天他有收費他有收取廣告費用那他就應該要有把關的義務啊怎麼會讓違法的網站我們就問毒品能不能在台灣販賣 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5770.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5798.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
不行嘛槍枝能不能在台灣販賣不行嘛那一樣是非法的電子菸卻可以因為它附了廣告給平台就可以讓它的搜尋跑到前面請問委員是哪一個平台我們去跟它溝通你剛剛講了啊Google啊Google你這個search第一個它不是廣告的話那我現在講說Google譬如說它搜尋電子菸不是不是我們是為了本席剛剛特別查了就是本席剛剛特別查了 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5799.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5811.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
不管是你剛剛講我就講的電子菸三個字或者是你剛剛講的那關鍵字我不想要再贅述是因為我不想要幫人家打廣告我也不想要讓大家知道說原來還有這個黑化可以找這個管道 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5812.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5835.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
莫名其妙嘛 但重點在於是說今天 今天 部長 這完全不好笑我不知道說為什麼你還可以這樣子嬉皮笑臉你每次都說我嬉皮笑臉 但是你講這個話 這個就是苦笑 這個不是嬉皮笑臉部長 兩個事情 第一 從以前到現在 苦笑 全民參要苦笑 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5837.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
5861.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
被毒蟲撞死的那些無辜的百姓才要苦笑你們是主管機關從以前到現在我們都一直一而再再提醒你如果說找平台過來講我們會配合去處理這個事情我們管的是網路平台就是網路平台是你們管所以說現在我才會那麼的要求就是網路上不應該要可以公開很容易讓人家買到 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
5863.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
5876.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
我以為有什麼具體的建議嗎我從以前到現在我就講過了你應該要開發平台啊開發平台平台如果說有賺取廣告費用你應該開發平台你應該也平台更多的責任啊有做了嗎請問他哪一條如果他違法我們一定會開發 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
5879.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
5886.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
沒有違反我們冤害防治法嗎沒有違反我們相關的打詐相關的法令嗎所以如果說是違反了冤害防治法所以到現在我們今天這樣講這個就是我過去到現在一直認為說民進黨政府就在踢皮球 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
5896.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
5910.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
速發部衛福部你看要分那麼細這個是衛福部管的這是速發部管的速發部雖然管平台但是它上面賣電子菸我們也看到了也可以搜尋得到了但是速發部就說那是別人管的不是我們要這樣子政府幹嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
5913.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
5918.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
要成立一個束髮幕幹嘛那跟以前沒有成立束髮幕的時候不是一樣嗎部長我們回到這個問題您講的問題是說本身從以前到現在就一直告訴你說你應該有公權力你應該要來處理這些工具你應該要處理你應該要讓這些平台知道不能讓我們的國人那麼輕易的可以搜尋得到你認為這些獨床是在哪裡搜尋到哪裡買到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
5941.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
5960.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
我們來處理我們這邊衛福部就是你從頭到尾沒有處理違反了我們這邊訴發部所主管的這些法律我們一定會開罰那但是如果是違反了煙害防治法照剛才委員所說的因為煙害防治法的確就是衛福部主管的能不能開罰這個要看衛福部那邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
5961.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
5979.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
這個不是踢皮球 這個是政府運作的基本的分工絕對不是政府運作的分工我比你更了解 十幾年前我就在地方政府待過就是因為我了解地方政府 我了解中央政府的運作也因此我才會跟你們講是說你現在這個心態就叫官僚心態 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
5980.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
5990.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
你現在這樣的一個心態就叫踢平球心態你這樣子的心態就叫做是我自炒門全學的心態來部長我想請教部長部長聽好部長聽好本席的問題聽好本席的問題所以如果說我在Google可以搜尋的到電子驗然後出現一個非法網站的話那這樣算誰的責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6001.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6024.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
那衛福部發現通知我們馬上就會讓他下架所以這算誰的責任這個是我們兩個部會的責任啊對啊 就像打棒球打棒球球打到三壘的時候三壘手接到傳給一壘這是三壘手的責任還是一壘手的責任這是三壘手接球是三壘手的責任然後在一壘把那個刺殺出局這個是一壘手的責任這個我們就是政府的分工跟打棒球是一樣的那跟你沒有關係嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6024.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6040.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
那說話我就是等於說你在浪費了本席六分鐘的時間從一開始我不是開宗明義就講是說如果今天平台我可以搜尋到不用任何的黑話只要打電子煙三個字就可以搜尋到他的官方網站那你還說你沒有責任那我想請教平台有沒有責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6044.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6068.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
平台收取了廣告費用讓這個非法網站可以在他的平台上面優先被收取到有沒有責任有啊 那就對啦所以我不知道速發部部長今天前幾個委員有執政黨的委員所以就大家奄奄細刻刻氣氣的在野黨的委員提出一樣的問題就要這樣子大呼小叫苦笑 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6069.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6080.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
我跟你講全民才要哭笑沒有 因為你剛才那個我這個跟你講說實在話有一點人身攻擊啦我沒有人身攻擊從頭到尾我都沒有人身攻擊是你的態度讓全民看到我們不知道速發布在幹嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6082.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6100.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
過去只會點面線現在只會推卸責任除了這樣你們書發部還要幹嘛我都不想講重話是因為本席還很尊重所有書發部的同仁但是如果說主事者用這樣的態度本席沒有辦法接受然後我們做了這麼多的政績我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6101.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6129.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
這個委員應該看一下我真的看不到如果說今天我都還可以用Google直接搜尋電子煙三個字就可以搜尋到非法網站的話你不要跟我講你做了什麼政績來NCC代理主委代理主委是再過兩個月您的任期也到期七位委員的任期都到期那現在到底行政院要用什麼樣的一個方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6130.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6158.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
來做處理跟我們報告目前因為全責在行政院那邊目前你也不知道 都不清楚那行政院院長已經違法了一百多天了該怎麼辦因為如果說到了7月31號真的沒有你的任期也到期了是那NCC的組織法裡面我們有講是說有所謂的代理主委制是因為要有委員的資格所以現在還有委員的資格是你們三位嘛那可未來 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6159.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6180.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
未來如果說假設到7月31委員都沒有資格了那NCC就要停擺了嗎跟委員報告這兩點第一點就是剛剛本會的組織法第五條確實是有委員的時候沒有主委的話是委員來代理但是法律上的唯一解釋就是說沒有寫的部分他並沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6181.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6207.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
明文規定說沒有委員的時候那個機關首長是要如何來處理這塊沒有那就回到第二點就是NCC第一屆的時候有那個613號的大法院大法官的解釋就是行政事務的話全國行政事務統一由行政院來掌握所以這一塊就法理上應該是憲政機關就是大院就是立法院跟行政院互動的議題就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6208.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6230.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
NCC沒有委員的時候 那機關首長要如何代理這個是大院跟行政院要面對 要互動的議題這不是我們要面對的議題啊這個是行政院已經違法了如果說連違法的行政院院長跟違法行政院都可以這樣子不釋法律無誤的話那我們不知道是說我們要怎麼樣教導國人要依法行政 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6231.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6260.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
你剛剛還提到是說法令明文規定第四條已經寫非常清楚了第五條寫非常清楚了那現在第五條沒有委員任期才可以有代理那如果說現在七位委員任期全部到期了那還要再找一個沒有委員資格的人來代理嗎現在有人傳是說有可能是有組密來代理啊那未來到最後變成是說我們七位委員都沒有然後只有一位代理 代理的組密 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6261.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6287.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
然後變成是一人的獨立機關一人可以做七個人的獨立機關的事情你覺得有可能會發生這個事情嗎你可以接受嘛以身為NCC的委員代理主委這段時間獨立機關嘛撇開藍綠嘛今天是民進黨執政嘛但哪一天如果說國民黨執政國民黨的人也做那麼荒謬的事情那不管藍綠 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6288.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6313.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
你可以接受嗎你可以接受說七個委員都到齊然後沒有任何一個委員獨立機關就讓一個沒有委員的資格的人來代理然後變一人獨立機關各位報告從法律上來解釋如果這個而且6132有您解釋行政的指揮監督管理事項是統一行政院來掌握所以這一塊的話代理主委我只問你可以接受嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6314.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6336.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
我個人認為應該是說機關能夠運作比較重要然後法理上機關可以運作比較重要所以不用依法行政就法理上也必須要站得住講所以要依法行政嘛任何機關要運作都因為它有法源依據對 法源包括不然我們也不需要訂立所謂的組織法訂立相關的法令啊是 沒錯但是法源也包括大法官的解釋 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6338.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6365.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
主委我最後一分鐘啦 我只是請教因為最近的這個醫美診所的偷拍案非常的嚴峻那本席也提出來就是無線的這些設備不管有線無線設備其實它很大的一個範疇都是在NCC的主管範圍裡面那本席之前也提過像日本 韓國其實都有明文的規定就是禁止販售這個所謂的偽裝式的攝影機因為你要做閉路電視 要做攝影機 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6367.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6380.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
就是比如電視攝影機 這個是很清楚的但是有一些業者把他偽裝成時鐘偽裝成布娃娃 偽裝成這些部分那可能他就有犯罪的意圖那現在NCC這邊召集相關部會開會討論立場跟建議是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6385.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6413.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
好 根本的報告其實這個案子行政院也關心行政院召開至少三次會議那大致方向是就是從四個面向第一個面向都是個案上已經在處理就檢證所在處理的那行為面向那藉由醫美診所相關的後續處理他們也在follow up法務部也在處理第三個是場域的加強管制這部分那不管是運動部還有消防衛福部他們也在處理那剛剛委員提到的是設備面的部分因為剛剛確實你的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6414.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6439.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
確實是因為有些是專管攝影機後面直接他沒有用RF沒有用攝影直接接記憶卡那種提示最近的一些個案某些大學的那些提示是屬於這種這種情況之下其實那行政院有初步分工都是主政單位是經濟部那NCC是協助單位就是說這種設備面的進口在邊境管制那邊都是我們跟經濟部標準檢驗局來做把關 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6440.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6450.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
就是有攝影平台一定要經過NCC的認證沒有攝影平台部分 標準局也一樣會有處理那現在 我知道不是啊戴主委你講那麼多都講起來我現在問題 我問題很明確吧我們問題是問是說偽裝式的攝影機有人建議說要採取實名制 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6457.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6475.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
有人建議是說要仿照日本韓國就是不得販售那我想要問的是說現在NCC主管機關不管是有社評的是屬於NCC主管嘛沒社評的是屬於經濟部主管嘛但NCC協助嘛但不管怎麼樣你都有責任跟你都有立場那請教一下NCC的態度是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6475.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6504.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
是 這個我們是經過相關行政院開會基於日韓 他們韓國韓國提出過這種立法 說要發售端實名制提過好幾次但是因為正反的利用正當利用跟違法利用其實都很難區分所以他們都沒有通過因為考量這個正當使用跟違法使用都無法通過所以我們認為說應該是做實際可行一定程度的邊境管制為主就是實名制端 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6506.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6518.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
所以你要一定的實名管制一定的邊境管制是什麼樣的一個標準本席現在在問最後了我已經要收尾了沒有問題那個最後是不是可以給邊境管制這個部分規範可以給本席一個資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6527.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6556.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
好 我會後面給書面資料給委員好 本席在這個議題上面還要持續的追蹤因為這關心到是全國大家共同的隱私的一個安全所以說我們一定要嚴格把關 好不好好 沒問題謝謝好 謝謝委員好 謝謝侯木改委員我們接下來請林俊憲委員發言那我們在陳書業委員發言之後休息十分鐘好 感謝主席本席邀請我們書發部林部長好 請林部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6563.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6581.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
委員長 部長今天很多委員都關心這個獨駕問題這幾天引起非常大的一個民怨那這個事情越來越嚴重所以我們舉獨駕造成的社會危害幾個數字給你參考如果我們以2023年做基準就是兩年前23、24、25這三年前做基準2023年取締的件數有315件24年 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6591.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6593.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
增加7倍到2619件是然後2025年 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6598.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6623.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
又是前一年的2.3倍到8659件等於到今年的1到4月4700多件我預估今年大概會到14000件所以今年就等於2023年大概取締件數成長了44倍我想單一犯罪行為很少 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6626.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6643.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
這麼樣快速可怕的增加然後獨駕造成的死傷2024年死傷就以交通車禍的分級90件不幸11人死亡85個人受傷去年 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6645.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6661.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
重大死傷就到266件 增加了兩倍是19個人死亡225個人受傷是就這麼嚴重的一個狀況所以難怪引起很大的民怨以及大家高度的關注是第一個為什麼這麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6665.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6685.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
多的一個毒價是一個很重要的原因啊表示這個毒品啊蔓延的速度很快是那很容易取得是網路上都有在賣所以這個這也是為什麼很多人希望啊我們相關政府部門要負起責任是趕快來面對這樣的一個對台灣社會啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6686.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6712.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
這影響非常重大的危險行為毒品的網路交易以前它會有一個特殊的地方是那麼你知道它會有一個比如說它會有一個圖案是一隻雞還有一個蛋是我們老保長你知道嗎我不知道你注意看我給你看這三條是它都有一個雞的圖案它旁邊一顆蛋是這就是它賣的就是這種喪屍蛋 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6714.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6740.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
但是會抓啦 這個衛務部抓 警政署抓所以他們現在這種轉移的平台他幾乎不在電商販賣了 他轉到了社群平台啦所以你來看喔 監測到的網路違法案件就一萬一千多件啦當然你們現在是怎樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6741.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6765.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
你們的作業是衛福部抓到 國運署抓到就通知你們下架 是不是這樣是 那我們這個也 除了就是說他們通知我們以外我們也跟衛福部合作 現在就是必須用AI的方式就像那個委員指的這個都是非常好的案例就是用傳統的關鍵字我們去搜尋 是搜尋不到的那這個有些是圖片 那這個時候都必須用AI的技術才能有辦法去主動去找出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6768.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6793.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
這應該是數學部處理的 數學部已經把一些違法的網站有3361件 你把它 讓他看不見了就降低他的解析 停止他的解析 就有3361個網站所以他們現在通通跑到社群平台來 在翠 在IG 在Meta社團 Telegram 社群平台 很多啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6794.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6823.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
所以接下來SWAP這裡還有什麼樣的一個積極的做法現在另外我們就是除了說我們跟衛福部用這個AI的方式去防毒以外我們也是積極的去找那個Meta這些公司希望他們也用同樣的AI的技術他去把這些做那個銷售的這種銷售這種煙毒這種違法商品的這些貼文跟帳號把它移除掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6823.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6843.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
這個事實上有兩部分一部分是請他們用AI的方式去掃描這個貼文或者圖片的內容另外一個他事實上他可以去找說這些關聯性譬如說有一個已經被下降Meta配合性如何Meta我們不是很滿意但是過去一兩年事實上是有在進步我們必須平心而論我因為時間的關係我再跟部長做一個交換 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6844.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6851.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
交流讓你做參考我們現在這個詐騙的統計過去一個月每次詐騙案最多的都是MetaMeta佔所有詐騙案的84%幾乎都是美國每10件詐騙案有超過8件 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6864.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
6880.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
以上都是跟Meta有關係那最近啊又出現在什麼地方農產品你等一下最近那個季節性的農作物上市玉荷包芒果鳳梨所以現在啊一大堆這種詐騙的販賣農產品 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
6884.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
6894.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
是那發賣農產品喔因為那一般人台灣水果很好吃消費才最便宜是也想到可以幫助農民是所以這個很多人受騙是買育兒包啦買 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
6896.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
6912.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
最近發現有一些賣蒜頭 山竹 荔枝 桃子 酪梨 芒果 鳳梨等等這台灣民眾對台灣農業的信任感正在被這些詐騙集團給傷害到所以我覺得蘇法部應該嚴肅來跟農業部這個也是跨部會你們要去做啦你都幫蘇法部要趕快啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
6921.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
6939.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
你現在施工喔 那不就是煎鍋了造成啦 消費者不敢去買我們台灣的那種網路上的農作物啦所以基本上你們最好有一個認證標章啦我的建議啦要不然你現在賣芋頭包 賣芒果一大堆 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
6940.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
6967.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
我覺得這個委員這個建議非常好那我們馬上會去找那個農業部我們看能不能用一些認證標章這個認證標章對於那個合法的那個而且是地方的農業一定會有很大的幫助我覺得這個建議非常好尤其最近高雄的育兒包出來育兒包最多啦因為育兒包的每一年就這一兩個月有它產季很短那數量大家搶 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
6968.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
6993.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
所以很多人就去網路上買高雄的玉荷包啦台南的芒果、鳳梨我要為這些在社群平台上經營的在地小農還有小商家我要幫他們講話啦因為過去這也是農業部輔導他們有些東西你可以自己賣可以省去中間商所以他們就去幫忙賣那現在整個幫忙都賣掉了那他們以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
6998.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7007.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
這個消費者跟他們之間的信任感就沒有了所以我們對這些認真耕作誠實經營的小農不應該賠帳不應該受到這些詐騙集團的一個傷害所以我建議跟農業部我們應該討論一個真實的認證標章讓消費者有信心也保護這些辛苦的小農 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7028.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7052.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
所以更便捷更可信的這樣的一個驗證方式是不是蘇澳部能夠來跟農業部做進行跨部位的一個合作非常感謝委員的建議因為通常我們在防範這個詐騙會有白名單策略跟黑名單策略那委員建議的就是白名單策略那白名單策略我們之前那個比較沒有想到非常感謝委員的提醒我們會馬上去進行好謝謝部長謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7055.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7061.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
好謝謝我們林俊賢召委也謝謝部長接下來請陳樹越陳樹越陳樹越不在我們現在休息10分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7089.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7089.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
好 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7671.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7678.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
好 我們現在繼續開會 接下來我們請何新淳委員 何新淳不在接下來請徐副委員發言謝謝主席 有請我們書報部林部長好 請林部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7699.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7717.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
委員長早安部長早部長現在進入AI的時代所以你們相關的業務我想未來也會面對很多的壓力跟責任那尤其我想現在目前我們對岸對於我們這個文攻武嚇甚至作戰的威脅從來沒有消失過 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7718.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7745.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
所以我知道我們署發部今年也特別正業了這個數位政府的資安生態防護的一個推動計畫還有政府的數位韌性的強化計畫資安治理的AI化計畫還有我們相關的網路主動式防禦的一個關鍵研究計畫這些的經費大概高達六億五千多萬但是目前根據我們審計部113年的中央政府總預算的一個審核報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7747.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7766.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
關於這個關鍵基礎設施的各項的一個領域的資通的一個安全通報途徑尚未一致而且對於我們這個領域資安防護的基準也還沒有訂立一個標準所以我個人認為是部長這個資安署對於我們這個APP的資安管理目前還是面臨很大的一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7767.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7788.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
是不是有面臨人力上的問題還是什麼樣一個技術上的問題可不可以先說明一下是 我們現在那個資安署對APP的檢測是主要是以那個中資APP那為什麼我們都檢測那個中資APP為主呢第一個就是因為依照那個中國的那個國家情報法第七條的規定就是說那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7790.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7807.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
就是中國的人民或者是組織都有支持協助與配合國家情報工作的責任他意思就是說我們這個民眾上傳到中國伺服器的資料中國政府隨時可以去調研而且是為了情報工作都可以我們認為這是一個相當大的風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7808.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7823.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
那我們現在一方面是在檢測一些中資的APP那另外一方面我們是希望把這個制度跟這個技術把它建立起來那如同剛才委員所講的我們現在的確是檢測的速度比較慢那我們希望能提高這個量能 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7824.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7853.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
部長我覺得檢測的速度真的不能慢啊這個非常涉及到國安的一個危機那尤其我想你們上個禮拜公布了這個四款的中資APP的資安的檢測結果確實發現這些APP在即使關閉的狀況之下還是會持續進行背景的一個資料收集甚至把我們相關的一些通訊錄甚至一些傳輸資料還是會傳送到中國境內的伺服器就表示他們這是有計謀式的一個修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7853.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7861.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
是那我們以高的地圖為例我想這個問題我也在委員會追蹤了很久是從所有的檢測項目裡面不管是 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7862.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7885.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
安卓系統或是我們iOS系統各檢出了甚至有8項到11項的問題點所以現在目前我知道我們政府部門我們是公開禁止這些的APP但是一般民眾使用率還是很高那面對我們抒發部除了提醒民眾小心這樣的一個警語之外有沒有更積極的作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7886.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7914.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
我們現在除了禁止公務部門使用以外我們譬如說在校園裡面我們也會透過教育部的教育的網路我們就是在學校裡面Wi-Fi都會阻絕這些有高風險的這些APP另外在iTaiwan由政府資助的免費的Wi-Fi的網路我們接下來也會都把這些高風險的這些APP給攔阻那我覺得最重要的還是民眾要知道說 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7915.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7930.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
有多大的風險因為如同剛剛委員所講的我手機都已經把這個APP關掉了結果他還在背景裡面還在蒐集我們這些資料我想一般民眾如果真的知道這個實情的話他知道這個實情的話一定會覺得說這個是非常不應該的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7932.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7948.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
我記得我上次諮詢部長的時候,部長您有特別有說未來要啟動跨部會的協調,甚至國安部相關的部會進行這樣的一個業者進行一個適當的一個隱蔽的一個措施,那目前您有邀集Apple、Google跟微軟這些系統來開會了嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7949.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7969.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
有我都有跟他們開過會那我們也會跟那個因為這個主責機關還有這個是國防部那國防部那邊會有一些他的考量到底是要哪些要怎麼樣處理地圖要怎麼處理這個我們已經跟國防部討論過那國防部那邊會有他們的政策考量跟處理他會告訴我們要如何要處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7970.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7986.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
部長,因為我還是要提醒一件事情,你看像我們圖面上,我們的國防機密都呈現在這個圖字上面,那因為中國製的APP他們在台灣,通常沒有設立分公司,也沒有一個合法落地的一個代理商, |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7986.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
8002.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
那所以未來針對這樣的一個無落地代理甚至直接境外提供服務的一個高風險的APP作為我們的主管機關難道我們沒有任何的實質管轄權嗎未來要怎麼因應這些的有可能發現國安危機的一個問題怎麼來做防範 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
8002.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
8027.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
事實上如果說有這種狀況的話那個感謝委員提供這個訊息我們會去跟他溝通請他們移除這些資料然後如果他們拒不配合的話那我們當然就是可以依照我們這個國家的法律要求Apple跟那個Google把他這個App下架部長我覺得啦我們一定要有強硬的手段要不然他們你要求他們不理你的話你也沒辦法那我們要一些行政手段怎麼處理啊是 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
8030.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
8043.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
我原說的沒錯啊所以那個如果他們拒不配合我們就會要求把他的APP下架甚至我們應該主動是不是來警告下架封鎖我們也要我們自己的作為啦是好部長我想這個你要採取強硬的手段好不好是了解謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
8044.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
8067.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
部長 那我請教一下您最近有沒有聽到很多年輕人在養龍蝦有 當然有齁 是你自己有養嗎有 有養有養齁對於這樣的一個養龍蝦的一個這個open crowd的部分你自己個人這個是好事還是壞事這個事情齁 因為它的影響力非常大因為以前的這個深層次AI都只能陪我們聊天那現在譬如說我要去日本旅遊七天的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
8067.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
8096.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
以前他只能幫我規劃行程他現在幫我規劃行程以後他直接會幫我訂機票訂那個旅館什麼通通幫我處理好了能力非常大但是也非常的危險因為他也會那個刷我的信用卡一不小心他就把我的信用卡刷了一個大洞出來事實上我本身就遇過這個事情對部長所以站在你的角度你認為這是一個數位分身好的工具嗎還是認為這是未來有可能是一個自然的另外一個我們沒有辦法防範的一個漏洞 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8097.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8116.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
它的確是一個數位分身事實上已經到實體的分身的那個數位跟實體合體的分身它能力很大但是現在因為這個一個新的技術出來的時候通常資安就有很多很多的漏洞那我在三月的時候去美國參加叫RACC那個全世界最大的資安大會幾乎整場大家都在談那個龍蝦的資安問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8119.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8144.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
那這個也是很大的商機但是短期之內真的是風險非常大在短期之內那個除非自己有比較強的信心要小心很小心但是我們現在就是積極的讓跟台灣的這個資安業者還有當然有國外的業者合作我們希望趕快把這些那個資安的防範因為是新出現的技術把這個那個通通做起來而且這個會是本身資安就是一個商機 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8145.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8173.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
陳如部長剛剛講的部長你自己也有在養龍蝦你也發現這個不管是上網調用工具甚至買賣股票都非常的好用但是我們資安運上個禮拜也有公布了這樣的一個資安檢測的一個報告也證明了我們目前AI代理人的工具非常脆弱如果說這個網頁有被植入所謂一個隱藏語意的一個指令有可能你在電腦裡面所有的資料你瀏覽過的東西甚至信用卡的憑證一瞬間就 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8174.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8202.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
是我原本講的完全沒錯那怎麼辦因為你是專業你是要怎麼防範一般鄉親不曉得年輕人現在趨之若鶩是怎麼樣避免這些年輕人被受害就是在短期之內要非常非常小心真的是要提醒所有的民眾你去養龍蕎的時候要非常非常小心然後看到那個所有的那個說明還有你安裝新的功能新的那個那個skill或者是各種那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8204.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8217.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
都要很小心那在中長期我們想辦法就是跟資安產業合作趕快提供一些工具能讓一般的民眾都很方便快速的把這些資安漏洞堵起來這點我還是要提醒部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8219.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8242.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
因為這個絕對會是未來很多人會使用的一個東西一個工具那我們在人工基本智慧基本法裡面有明定你們要推動一個AI風險的一個分類框架這個標準什麼時候會公布這個已經送行政院了然後這個風險分類框架如果順利的話應該什麼時候一個月內 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8244.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8263.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
應該 如果順利的話 因為我們已經送行政院了我想未來對於這樣的一個消費型的一個AI工具我想部長我們應該要更積極 甚至在我們不同的宣傳媒體裡面要提醒大家 合用歸合用啦 但是方向很大的啦所以要注意啦完全同意 感謝委員的提醒好 謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝徐睦恆委員 謝謝部長接下來我們請許智傑委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8281.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8284.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
謝謝主席 我們請部長好 請林部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8291.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8315.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
委員早安部長好我想AI時代部長真的很辛苦謝謝首先先表示感謝就是現在全世界數位龍頭都到台灣來了是我還特別憋了一個揮打的徽章這是去買的是像這兄弟他們都有做對 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8317.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8332.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
所以你要看就是現在全世界都到台灣了那昨天我有看到新聞那個部長也有去開幕那在這個時代裡面就是台灣除了是台積電的龍頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8334.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8351.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
富國神山之外那我們的AI如何在其他的應用方面昨天我也有看到聯發科跟他們設計一個未來筆電可能有一番革命那在這個部分我們政府能做什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8352.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8369.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
我們現在在台灣的AI硬體產業已經是世界上的超級強國軟體比較弱我們有一個機會就是主權AI所謂主權AI好像譬如說前一陣子我們跟金管會還有台灣16家大型金融機構 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8370.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8387.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
其實主要是那個金融機構他們合組了一個聯盟然後再開發一個主權AI他的概念就是說我們現在如果問Chad GPT或者Gemini問一些金融的問題結果他回答了講得頭頭是道可是他是依照美國的法律或者是新加坡的法律那我們就是希望建立一套那個台灣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8388.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8415.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
那個金融主權的AI那我問他金融的問題他就依照台灣的法規來回答我們那這個本身第一個可以解決台灣的問題第二個這個是對民間產業是一個商機再來就是說我們台灣如果建立這個訓練主權AI的這個能力以後我們還可以外銷譬如說其他的國家其他的那個就是開發中國家或者是就是美中以外的國家他需要建立主權AI的時候我們也希望能把這個技術輸出 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8416.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8444.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
那現在台灣的主權AI做到什麼程度呢現在事實上民間已經有那個成立公司了那據我們了解他們的狀況還不錯我不敢講相當不錯那也不方便講說是哪幾家公司就是由台灣的軟硬體公司大型的軟硬體公司合組了這個專門做那個主權AI的公司然後到那個東南亞所以上一次你跟我提過說有11億個Token |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8446.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8468.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
對現在呢現在應該是13億13億13億個token 這個是我們的資料 這個我們內部就是我們台灣的資料這個是台灣主權AI訓練語料庫的所以你大概估計應該是什麼時候或者是我們要做到什麼程度才算是有主權AI的水準到位 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8469.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8492.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
OK 如果說是一般性的AI模型的話13億個Token的確是不夠啦但是如果說我們要做那個金融主權AI的話那我們就是去請那個跟金管會去合作然後把那個金融方面的這個資料尤其是政府擁有的著作權的資料釋放出來時間、格局大概要到什麼程度我們希望是在 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8493.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8512.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
三到六個月之內我們就是找到足夠的資料讓台灣的AI公司可以訓練他的主權AI的模型OK 三到六個月我會把時間記下來然後看看部長到時候那個成果要呈現給國人看這樣好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8512.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8538.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
好 沒問題啊 沒問題啊雖然有點壓力 但是我們一定會努力的當然啦 有壓力才會進步嘛好 謝謝 謝謝委員好 那這個部分我想包括AI軟體的應用嘛就是說 主權AI的模式 AI應用軟體的新創那未來可以推到全世界其他的國家目前我們應該是20名內了吧 全世界 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8540.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8561.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
應該是實際的實力應該是20名之內是沒有問題當然有各種不同的評比方式但是就是說整體我們台灣的AI實力應該是相當強的對啦就是說之前我記得去年是21嘛今年應該是20名內了沒看到現在最新的報告那當然我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8562.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8586.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
而10名對我來講是不滿意的嘛 對不對是我想部長也不滿意嘛是啊 我不滿意 希望更好所以 至少趕快先進入前10名嘛好 我們會努力 是一年有沒有機會喔 別這樣啦 這樣壓力太大了我們會努力喔 謝謝盡量努力喔 我想這個部分是全世界都在看嘛你看全世界 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8588.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8611.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
AI together都到台灣來了所以台灣要怎麼創造變成世界的軟體的態度也是我們努力的目標所以這個部分麻煩部長努力一下那另外就是說剛剛副國委員也提到就是AI我現在其實想到就是一個AI時代的品德教育風險風險當然是 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8615.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8633.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
你說沒有風險是不可能啦包括詐騙其實我們真的很討厭啦那部長也被詐騙過啦我說的AI詐騙你不是說你也被刷了很多錢嗎那個不算詐騙那算是控制超出你的預期 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8635.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8661.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
對那我想這個部分要怎麼樣去控制是你看中國有那個插編產業鏈是AI插編產業鏈是這個部長應該都清楚了是你就是花了一點小錢然後再來就是身為是然後再來就是學生作業用AI做是交給老師是這個未來其實通通交給AI變成他本身的學習力是就一定會降低沒錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8661.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8690.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
那他都讓AI去做他基本上就是一個欺騙是所以就是說在現在的情況下剛剛那個福鬼委員有提到在AI基本法坦白講我一直希望AI基本法應該是在速發布的啦是被藍白把他一挪到其他委員會我是覺得很可惜是但是在這個情況之下我們能做什麼或者是說將來有沒有機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8691.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8707.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
其實國科會當然他是很重要啦是但是AI基本法照理來講應該在速發布是最適合啦是所以將來有沒有機會調整回來這個到時候我們還要立法院再溝通嘛是 謝謝委員在這個情況之下就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8709.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8728.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
我們能做的現在在國科會那邊但是我們一樣該做的事我們一樣去先設想到先出來做所以在AI時代的品德教育這一部分不知道有沒有什麼規劃我先再舉一個那個教育部的例子你可以看到教育部現在他在推那個AI素養教育 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8730.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8746.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
那跟數學部有沒有做結合甚至AI要有品德其實人更要有品德吧但是人的品德是教育部應該做的數學部可能管不到那麼多啦但是你從AI時代的品德教育跟教育部結合 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8747.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8772.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
然後我也會要求教育部就是說人的品德教育其實在現在這個時代網路謾罵啦霸凌啦然後小錯誤無限上綱啦其實人好像已經脫離了很多品德的教育了那這些東西我們需要大聲疾呼需要重新再來更加的重視所以我們先從AI時代的品德教育做起那部長有沒有什麼想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8772.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8787.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
我們現在會跟譬如說跟衛福部就有合作由衛福部去出一些題目就是兒少跟性平的題目讓我們去考那個AI各種AI模型我們現在有一個AI評測中心AIEC那我們會 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8788.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8817.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
每週都會去評測全世界大概140多種主要的那個大型語言模型那等到那個衛福部把這個兒少跟性平的這個題目交給我們我們就去那個做評測然後去出那個成績單讓那個全台灣所有國人都知道說哪一些那個大型語言模型在兒少跟性平還有這些道德方面哪些做得比較好哪些做得比較不好那委員剛剛也提到就是有教育部那個部分那我們也會跟教育部去合作譬如說我這幾個介紹未成年 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8818.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8847.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
少女的影片對對如果是AI做的這樣他有沒有辦法對我這個就是我們要做一個評測還有另外一個就是說我們也會那個跟那些大型的那個公司像是Google啊Meta還有那個Line他們去商量就是說如果由他們的那個工具產生的AI的影片的話或者影像他一定要做標示有的是顯性標示有的是隱性標示但是都要讓人家可以知道說這個是AI產生 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8848.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8877.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
就提醒那個民眾時間差不多我最後再給部長拜託您一個任務啦就是說現在因為AI基本法在國科會但是這些相當的風險以及要怎麼樣給蘿蔔或者怎麼樣給鞭子然後要掌握到一個什麼樣的程度我是建議書法部可以做這樣子的思考啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8878.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8903.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
是沒有問題就是說從數化部我們本來就應該給你們做的但是雖然現在在別的單位但是我覺得你們還是該做啦是沒錯這個我們一定會做所以就是說在這個AI的風險跟AI時代的品德教育我是給部長這個題目啦是AI時代的品德教育是那怎麼跟教育部結合是那怎麼樣從 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8905.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8918.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
其實從到AI的管理到回到人性的管理啦是所以不管是同理心啦人性關懷啦科技倫理跟誠信啦數位的公民責任跟一般的公民責任是我想這個時代 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8920.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8944.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
進步的太快了這些傳統的應該要重視的好像少了所以我希望說部長這一個部分可以多一點思考好 沒問題那下一次有機會我再來運聞其詳就是部長思考之後我們應該用務實的怎麼樣推動然後在蘿蔔跟棍子的這個平衡我們提供了什麼樣的具體的方式這樣講比較具體 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8947.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8963.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
這樣子我們才能夠有一個將來怎麼樣去調整這個AI洪流AI的紅利AI的對全民的好的影響之外那個壞的影響我們如何去避免所以也請部長這一部分多做一個比較大的思考 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8964.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8989.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
我們用一個整體的框架來推好不好這個框架就拜託部長來想我會陪你們一起推啦這個任務交給你們因為你們比較內行嘛但是品德教育是我最重視的所以我希望說在這個時代再加上我們的這一個對人的品德教育的部分做一個整體的思考好不好好沒問題那這個就麻煩部長好謝謝委員好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8993.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9013.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
好 謝謝許智傑委員 謝謝部長接下來我們請陳雪生委員發言好 謝謝召委 是不是請林部長好 請林部長 訴發部林部長委員早安 林部長早 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9021.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9046.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
單位之間通訊像上次台北車站發生去年12月連續殺人的事情台北車站那邊的鐵路警察跟我們的地區警察消防都沒有聯絡上所以我講說台鐵也好高鐵也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9047.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9072.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
台鐵也好高鐵也好那個機場也好他們之間系統通訊系統能夠做一個連貫是不是請部長這邊能夠看看怎麼做我們去了解一下去研議一下好沒問題如果有什麼做不好的地方麻煩你通訊整合機制來整合無線電頻率及各類的系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9073.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9102.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
我們現在政府就是說在那個在那個任性方面我們在都為了天災或者是如果有那個衝突那個區域衝突的時候我們那個有一個都有一些詳細的計畫那通訊方面我們第一個要保障的是指揮系統然後再來是救災系統然後再來是重大的民生設施然後再來是一般民眾的通訊的需求我們會依照這個順序那我們都有那個列出這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9103.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9112.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
所謂的優先順序表然後也有一些計畫雖然這些計畫有些並不方便公布但是這個事情我們都有在做 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9112.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9138.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
沒有這很好啦,我最近也跟你們那個貴單位視察張貞潔有沒有我們常常也會做一些互動啦所以你們打詐的成果幹什麼,他也跟我解釋的很清楚謝謝委員的支持我覺得有必要啦你常常跟委員之間能夠做一個互動有沒有讓委員能夠了解所以對書發部也好,對ACG也好,對中華電影也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9139.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9168.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
是大家有了解以後啊是就一些問題就解決了嘛是沒錯謝謝我人的支持省預算也比較好省一點非常感謝非常感謝另外就是那個海宮海鴻宮啊66號平台船是我們東營那邊不是有一條船嗎是上次我也跟你在這邊說明過嘛是那條船碰到亂流然後沉沒嘛是打到那個東營島去是把這個海海三號 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9169.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9193.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
也沒有弄斷,那海巡就把他帶到港內,然後找了一條平台船來,那平台船很大,來幫忙修他是救護車的一個概念,海巡把人家扣留在那邊,也沒去告也沒幹什麼後來我有請蘇巴部那邊去處理,現在處理狀況怎麼樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9195.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9213.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
現在我們是不是請那個市長說明一下應該是已經離開了嘛劉市長你說明一下是 報委員謝委員隨詢那平台船跟那個擱淺的漁船都已經離開了那至於那個船長部分目前為止還在南竿那根據我們目前了解大概六月中旬會開庭開庭 對 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9215.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9237.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
有人告他嗎因為海巡署有去做舉發的動作嘛那是不是有人告這個部分海巡署去舉發那東興是中華電信的啊你海巡署只舉發什麼因為破壞海染的話現在有可能有涉及刑法但是這個只是涉及而已但是因為相關市政還是要司法單位訴人是我受傷了你去告什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9239.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9259.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
你幫我去告,我沒有叫你告啊是,我沒有告,只是說海巡署部分他就有權責,剛剛委員有提到嘛,他就跟檢察官有去做備案的動作那檢察官認為什麼?呃,鮑委員這個檢察官司法不公開,我真的...司法不公開?我身法不公開,所以我確實...那你海巡告他什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9260.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9286.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
這個因為我看到目前在所有的資料之後他把遺送給檢察官檢察官有做筆錄這是以公開的訊息把人送給檢察官對就是船長的部分有告他嗎這個包委員我不清楚海巡有沒有告他你也不知道海巡應該只是遺送要不然我打電話問我來問海巡有沒有告他他馬上就回答我了是你們連這個都不去問喔因為這個涉及到你們也太扯了吧是是是 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9287.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9312.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
立法院那邊在關心這個事情是不是這個船長的狀況怎麼樣還是船員的狀況怎麼樣船員都已經回去你們有沒有告他你們都不知道都無法掌握因為這照檢察官的偵查部分跟檢察官什麼關係啊根據我了解誰有沒有告誰問當事單位問海巡就知道了是你有什麼告人家這個報告委員我真的不清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9312.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9337.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
人家船來救援,關他什麼事?你把海嵐撞壞也是那條船嗎?是漁船的問題,跟救援船有什麼關係?我們會趕快去跟海巡那邊去了解一下不是我來問,你們才回答我你們都應該要掌握這個狀況我們下次會改進 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9339.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9354.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
不是下次,還有下次喔?你下午就給我回報這個事情?沒問題沒問題好不好?跟這個船長一點關係都沒有啊船長很像又中風又什麼什麼的我們很麻煩欸,你們派個人去照顧他好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9356.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9382.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
我知道部長這邊有派次長,在18、19號要到東引去,因為海南3號修好了那你們看我非常感謝我也拜託縣長,也交代那邊的鄉長你們去,我不知道能不能去那不能去的話,次長,牛市長有沒有去?幫我一邀有齁,你去 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9384.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9398.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
你去我叫他們給你註冊高陽酒好了好不好因為你動作快一點嘛好不好還有你們跟海巡啊地檢署沒有傳你們去喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9400.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9417.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
沒有,因為我們處理的是比較技術方面的問題對於海上發生什麼事情,我們這邊比較少涉入船長趕快讓他回去好不好我想蘇巴部跟我們立法院的互動越來越好了是不是是,謝謝委員還有部長請問,請NCC陳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9431.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9453.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
委員好陳志偉你7月31號是退休還是委員屆滿任期屆滿任期屆滿以後呢如果沒有其他的公職的一屆安排的話就退休了退休你原來不是主任秘書嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9453.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9480.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
是 我依然是長城文官沒錯那你就繼續幹走任秘書就好啦不代理啦前例大概比較難以以往NCC有很多長城文官出任委員後來大概都退休那你就退休那你退休以後又是來代理應該不會這樣子吧沒有 我們在座同仁你們看一看我們這是 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9482.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9504.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
是民主嗎?台灣在實施民主嗎?這個體制內規定NCC委員出缺要趕快把人選送到立法院來嘛那立法院來行使同意權嘛是不是這樣那行使同意權你立法院如果不通過的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9506.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9534.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
我就用代理的方式合理不合理上禮拜提秘書長 院秘書長有對媒體講比如說正在徵詢當中你說哪個秘書長行政院秘書長行政院秘書長對誰講跟媒體他是誰啊這裡是立法院 他對媒體講他是誰啊 他代表總統代表院長代表院長的幕僚長代表院長他的幕僚長這裡是立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9536.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9558.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
如果要立法院同意的東西我們立法院沒有通過然後行政院就可以代理派人代理嘛對不對我們三讀通過的法令如果行政院認為不爽就不附屬嘛是不是這樣不附屬檢察總長送來我們不同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9559.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9583.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
那可以找個人代理是不是這樣那以後還要所有要經過立法院同意的事情行政院也不必把名單送到立法院來太麻煩了就直接派人代理就好了嘛代理的人也是他的目標嘛是不是代理檢察總長也是想幹檢察總長沒有通過嘛那他代理嘛一樣啊像NCE主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9586.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9607.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
本來是你嘛對不對那後來不是你嘛後來我沒有通過沒有通過就你代理嘛那以後不要立法院同意啊各位這就是中華民國的民主是民主嗎這不是哪個黨派的問題啊是這樣的嗎民主是這樣的嗎民主這一堂課是這樣上的嗎選舉委員會也一樣如果這選舉委員沒有通過的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9614.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9634.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
那由行政院來派代好 那你們是什麼你們是超然獨立的機關超然獨立的機關可以由行政院來派代的話那還超然獨立什麼 各位你們拼命理這是民主嗎不是民主 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9643.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9647.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
那個習近平有這樣搞啊 沒有啊是不是 習近平有沒有這樣搞 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9650.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9678.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
跟委員補充報告就NC的部分就是民國97年大法官4-613號有解釋行政的機關的事務由行政院統籌來大法官喔好來你講大法官更好玩現在大法官幾個剩三個是不是三個也可以當家作主大法官只要剩一個就可以了我跟你講一個也可以OK啦我跟你講啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9679.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9703.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
比總統權力還大啦這是大法官啊我很瞧不起我心裡面呸我跟你講我吐口水不可以這樣嘛我很喜歡台灣這塊土地欸但不是這樣搞法啊是不是我內心的世界我也從來沒有去罵過誰啊主委我有罵過你嗎你問蘇巴部部長我有罵過你嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9705.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9733.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
我從來沒有欸你們的預算我都在幫你們維護欸是不是,即使將來交通委員會要審預算我們國民黨的系統可能也會砍你們預算我還會幫你們維護欸他們還說我藍皮綠骨,我什麼骨啊什麼藍皮綠骨嘛我們講道理嘛,講制度嘛,不可以這樣子啦我上次跟你們講那個名嘴 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9735.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9754.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
鳴嘴在那邊一講說那個誰那個蔣萬安是讀稿機30個嘴巴通通讀稿機讀稿機全部都來了說我說要退黨全部都來了30個說陳雪生要退黨很霸氣講要退黨這幹什麼啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9758.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9776.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
你們那個管理一下好不好打分數怎麼打的對電視台有沒有打分數啊你不能說讓這些名嘴在那邊拿那個什麼錢三千五千的我們尊重他的直播內容如果有違法的話我們會依法處理你們違法了幾件你們罰了多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9778.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9797.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
那個主委啊違反事實大概這幾年都有總共發21件我們要有良心懂了沒有要有良心 要有良知我今天沒有質詢你啊 算跟你上了一課好不好也謝謝召委 謝謝好 謝謝曾博士委員的這個精闢上課的發言謝謝我們主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9815.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9837.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
下一位登記質詢發言的委員黃建豪委員請黃建豪召委好謝謝主席我們一樣請林益晶部長好請部長委員好部長好部長好這個稍早之前孟愷委員提到關於這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9839.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9865.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
電子煙的部分那因為我想今天內政委會其實也排了一個專報在針對我們這個獨駕相關的法令要修法但其實我們在很多地方也談過一件事情修法一定要修法要加重懲罰一定要加重懲罰但是今天會有懲罰的問題是事情已經發生了所以核心你是說我們源頭怎麼管制包含說現在所謂電子煙嘛剛剛部長提到說你可能要黑化其實孟愷有一件事我也是引述他的這個言論就是說真的 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9866.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9884.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
我完全沒有用什麼黑化我就是用電子煙上網搜尋是你就會找到這些平台它現在就在我們的就是Google上面就找得到了是那再看一下有確定什麼有確定說主管機關是衛福部沒錯所以衛福部會通報你們把它封鎖我們看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9886.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9897.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
達到封鎖了所以封鎖之後有的網站點進去之後用電腦用平板點進去之後他會顯示說此網域已經遭到封鎖是但是呢我用手機欸點的開欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9900.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9923.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
我用手機可以點的開喔這是我用我剛剛自己的手機實際證實的這件事情因為同仁傳給我傳到我們的工作群組LINE嘛所以我用LINE的這個第一個是我用LINE的這個這個直接用他的APP打開的時候他的網站是直接打開的然後我在同時在選擇說然後我用Google Chrome開啟也可以開啟所以這件事情我想這個就是一個破洞 這個漏洞啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9924.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9933.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
那再往下走它其實還可以實質上的去做相關的一些交易它都是能夠直接做那像這個網站來講它是2015年就存在了所以我要問的是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9935.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9963.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
今天網站上有這樣的事情那到底這個是誰的業務這個是誰責任到底由誰要來把這個源頭的這個電子煙的販賣管道來把它阻斷是誰的責任OK 就如同我剛才講的就有點像打棒球就是說那個對方打出滾地球到三壘的時候三壘手接到球要傳給一壘那現在就是等於說衛福部有點像三壘手他負責把這個球那個接到要傳給一壘那我們這邊就是去處理嘛那 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9964.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9990.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
委員提到這些問題我覺得非常好也希望說委員能把這些資料都提供給我們那必須在幾個方面說明如果說是在委員的手機上可以看得到第一個我們要去看一下就是DNS RPZ這個機制是不是您用的那個DNS Server試看是哪一家我們找找看他可能現在沒有加入我們這個DNS RPZ這個聯防的平台但是我也必須跟委員解釋就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9991.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10010.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
我們現在用的這個DNSRPC是各個民主國家裡面通常會採行的方法它封鎖的是網域而不是網址網域就是一個譬如說那個www.abc.com這是網域我們是在這個層次封鎖但是如果在那個網址就變成104.83.255.67等這種網址的話因為現在全世界大概只有四個國家會在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10018.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10032.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
層面做大規模的封鎖就是中國俄羅斯然後北朝鮮跟伊朗那通常民主國家因為為了要保護那個網路言論自由還有這個網路世界的一個算是一個大家那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10034.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10048.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
一個共識就是我們不會在那個IP的這個層次封鎖所以這個地方是比較困難一點就是我們必須在那個保護那個國人的安全跟保護國人的自由其實我要問的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10050.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10064.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
我的手機也沒試過說我做過什麼特別的設定我要講的是說其實我要提醒一個點說比如說剛剛我講的一個破口是什麼我在電腦上面在平板上面開不了我第一時間在我手機也開不了可是如果我透過LINE |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10065.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10083.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
的這個APP那個網址我點進去我就打開了打開完之後我再用同樣從那個介面上面去選擇選擇用控制開啟嘛也可以順利進去了就可以交易了然後也可以下載的APP而且不是只有一個網站在這個頁面裡面其實是兩個網站所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10083.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10103.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
我當然覺得說你剛剛講說衛福提供你們去封鎖這有封鎖確實有做了但問題是到底他還有多少的漏洞這應該是你們專業才對啊我沒有做特別設備我沒有去做任何的這個去繞貨怎麼樣他就是直接的如果今天我想買我就可以直接買了當然我是沒有買我是說這個東西是可以做到所以到底問題出在哪裡我覺得這個是速發部應該要去針對你們的專業去調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10109.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10129.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
這可以嗎 部長可以 這個我們要盡快去了解那也麻煩委員把這些網站還有這個操作的過程提供給我們那我們馬上會去查我稍後就傳LINE給部長讓你知道說這個網站在哪裡至少是兩個以上所以我覺得這個還是這個我講 這個不是黑話他就真的 我就抽尋電子菸而已真的做這件事情而已 好不好好 沒問題好 那接下來一樣討論也是蘇巴波這個業務就其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10132.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10153.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
我們現在講到講飛鴻供應鏈那這個飛鴻供應鏈到底要到什麼樣的層級包含說我們現在很多公務機關在買錄音筆影音機視訊設備等等的都希望說他一定要做到所謂飛鴻所以有大陸廠牌的話要主管機關要去做相關的這個限制那這個業務的主管機關當然就是數位部嘛但我們遇到一個問題是很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10154.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10170.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
公務機關的同仁他們很不好意思跟你們講透過立法院來發聲他們發文去問蘇衛部說到底這個東西可不可以買這個東西到底怎麼樣那蘇衛部每次的回應原則上就是給提出一個風險的指引那你沒辦法很明確的說可以買 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10171.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10198.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
還是不可以買所以到最後這個風險則要回到各業務機關裡面去所以我要跟你說其實有這個法律那要這樣做那其實實務上我們講在撇開所有各種立場實務上今天市面上你要買到所謂錄音筆你要買到這些不是最高端的不是高階的這些電子商品的時候它最大的廠牌最便宜的或最好用的最流通性最高的就都是大陸製中國製啊是那到底要怎麼樣公務機關要能夠怎麼繞開去買到 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10201.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10213.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
符合法令的東西又或者是說會不會說其實這些入資廠商他隨便去投資一個歐美的品牌他進來他算入資還是算外資這個問題我覺得是數位部你們在列 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10215.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10241.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
要不然開白名單要不然開黑名單要不然大家公務機關同仁會無法配合這個政策嗎 部長是委員說的狀況我們有掌握到的確現在在這個危害國家自通安全產品的管理上面的確是不夠明確所以我們現在那個資安署現在有在做整個流程的改善整個系統制度的改善那我們希望說第一個我們要去看這個每個 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10242.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10259.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
那個產品它有這個廠牌還有它的生產地這個是必須分開來處理因為有些是譬如說是美國或者台灣的廠牌在中國大陸生產這到底能不能算算不算危害國家自動產權產品這個我們必須釐清那另外一件事情是說那個我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10259.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10275.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
那個很多的零組件我們必須把它列出來所以我們現在要求那個廠商必須在申報的時候必須說明他提供他這個報表然後我們就用廠商自主申報的方式我們來做管理那是不是我們請那個資安署署長再做進一步說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10276.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10280.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
謝謝文剛的這個提問那的確是有關於危害國家專業產品我們主要是風險來管控相關的這個他的這個情況那當然的確提到如果是屬於中國廠牌那當然因為他相對的風險就比較高那我們當然就是在危害國家專業產品的範圍裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10294.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10315.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
那剛剛也有提到包括產地各方面所以剛剛部長也特別指示整個在我們這個整個審查過程應該是簡單的我們就先處理那我們會去看看有沒有紅色公務員例如說他的一些縫表就是零組件的部分他有沒有一些邏輯運算的功能那如果有邏輯運算跟聯網的功能那基本上他可能會判定是說他可能是有一些相關比較高的外國家產品的風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10318.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10346.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
那如果都是一般沒有的一般的像說像這個風扇啊等等的沒有這種邏輯運算功能的話那我們就會判別說它沒有危害的這樣一個風險好 我們希望數位部會盡快把這個指引要很明確也要讓公務同事 至少公務機關同仁要很知道說因為其實這個東西不是只有中央部會議你說到各學校各地方政府轄下的各機關每次問就講這個其實是很困擾那再來看到其實依據這個母法第九條裡面也是有一個bug就是說在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10348.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10368.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
本法實行前即便它是可以專案方式使用危害國家自動安全產品者在本辦法實施後可以繼續使用這到底什麼意思就是說你這個法律你擺在這邊但你又明白講說這個東西會危害國家自動安全它是這樣的產品結果它還可以繼續使用那不是很奇怪的事情嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10370.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10398.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
是跟我們報告因為已經購買了所以基本上還是可以繼續使用但是要有相關的安全管控的措施台北安部長說一下就是說有時候譬如說我們的那個治安院他要檢測那個中國大陸一些產品的安全性還有研究它的各種內部的那個設計等等那這時候我們的治安院就必須去購買一個中國大陸的產品那這個產品原來是在我們的這個黑名單裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10399.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10421.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
但是這個時候因為我們要研究這種產品我們當然要去買嘛還有一些研究單位譬如說他想要做中國大陸研究那他當然得去購買一些中國大陸的那個不管是軟體或硬體的產品或是那個資料庫等等這時候我們就是專案去核准這個是這條法條的主要意義好那第七條也是啦就我要最後最後結論就是你看 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10422.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10447.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
這個定期確認有我其他題材發生這個責任是第一線承辦員做還是你們數位部來做這個東西我覺得要講清楚是這樣子就是說講這個專案控管的話就是由機關的資安長去核定然後再報書報部這邊來核定這個是整個一個流程的部分那基本上還是看它這機關自己本身管控它的風險就是有沒有這種資料傳到中國大陸去等等相關的風險還是大家來看相關的風險以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10449.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10468.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
好 最後啦 反正這個東西就是說 這個整個資安的問題喔當然現在多種非紅 本身都支持啦那這種事 重點是要能夠符合現實啦總不能說 我就買不到 我只能去買大陸的那結果你又說我違反資安 這個事情我覺得這個責任你不能讓第一線同學承擔 是數位部應該擔起說那你們確定這沒問題 可以買 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10470.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10497.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
所以怎麼樣 而不是只提供說風險評估讓你風險你自己地方業務單位自己決定就是這個風險到底能不能 可以買 不可以買這個決定這個責任 應該是專業單位而不是在地線同仁 可不可以部長完全同意 這點我們會繼續改進我事實上也注意到這件事情了 我也要求我們同仁一定要把這個地方改進不要讓那個地方的那些公務機場人員增加他們困擾好 部長謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10514.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10526.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
接下來請邱若驊委員發言謝謝主席 請速發部林部長好 請林部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10532.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10560.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
委員早安部長早同樣電子菸非法電子菸在網路上販售的問題啊那剛剛召委就已經指出了嘛那現在還可以在網路上看到電子菸在販售那是不是代表速發部平台治理破功了呢你們在平台上你們6月1號的時候就已經有表示嘛速發部會用AI來掃讀還有違法的網站全面來阻擋可是現在網路上還看得到那你們到底是有什麼確實的作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10562.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10582.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
就是我們用AI的這個方式我們跟衛福部他們合作嘛然後為什麼要用AI的那個處理就是如同我前面市長有講過就是說因為這個販賣這個電子菸他們常常會用一些黑化譬如說用主機帶剛剛張維有說到其實不用就是輸入黑化像你剛才稍早講的糖果還是什麼其他的替代制嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10583.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10611.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
電子煙三個字就可以在網路上找到我們現在看到不管是網路商城還是社群平台還是搜尋引擎嘛還有跨境電商的販售那對社會已經造成高風險了那在過去113年乘114年預算的時候就已經有委員提出要說要要求速發部針對搜尋引擎然後對電子煙然後還有非法網站的屏蔽還有這些相關的資訊被搜尋被導流被販售也要求速發部來做管理那速發部這兩年來做了什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10613.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10632.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
我們就是盡量把各種漏洞都堵住這個之前我們常常講不管是在打造或是在防堵這個違法產品上面就是我們這個好人跟壞人是不斷的攻防我們不斷的把各種漏洞給堵住但是壞人在把我們舊有的漏洞堵住的時候他一定會去尋找新的漏洞那今天我們就針對電子菸嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10636.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10648.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
從113年有委員已經提出,就已經提出了那針對這樣跨境的電商,還有網路導流的問題,主要的電商平台還有搜尋引擎,你們跟業者開過幾次正式的會議這開過幾次正式會議,抱歉我沒有這個資料,因為不見得是我去開這個會的 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10656.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10665.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
謝謝委員的詢詢這個我們總共開過7次會議大概有10個部會以上那總共部會有提出58項的需求我們都把這個媒合起來一個一個解決有開過7次會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10671.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10694.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
從哪一年開始?從2013年吧從2013年 因為我看回去在2024年12月的時候卓院長就已經有指示要求速發部要研議要運用數位科技還有強化查詢網路販售電子煙的器具那也要求速發部還有跨境機關來做合作源頭阻斷電子煙的流通並強化 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10696.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10722.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
查氣網路還有電子、煙具的部分那蘇巴部你們查氣了幾間跟委員報告因為一夜市的那個網站其實產生的蠻快但是我們現在有三個層次的管理跟兩個層次的下架三個層次就是要請這個電商一定要源頭管理所以我現在是問因為卓院長就已經有指示了嘛要從源頭來做查氣並且要預防性的下架所以我今天要問這兩年來你們下架了多少個網站 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10725.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10731.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
跟委員報告去年114年的話電子菸是2103件那毒品的話是25249件那今年的話到5月底截止的話是電子菸是4103件那毒品的話是14件網域的部分剛剛已經說有開過7次會那也請說明是跟哪一些平台業者開的會 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10748.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10767.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
我們有四大西都西的平台另外我們管理的七個平台還有總共有十個部會還有那個三家的主要電商的一個工協會然後大概十個部會以上是那部長因為現在族群的問題是嚴重那這邊出發部可不可以做一個通報的平台呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10768.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10785.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
是 我們是希望就是希望利用以前那個我們做那個打詐的那個通報的機制因為那個通報機制是盡量用電子化的方式可以加快我們的速度那這個我們有在跟衛福部你現在打詐是針對詐騙嘛像是金融相關的然後民眾可以上你們的打詐APP去輸入網址 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10786.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10813.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
那接下來只要民眾發現有異常像是關於販售電子菸等相關或是機子還是你說的黑話你們用AI掃描之外那民眾可不可以也把這些網子放在這個打砸APP上面呢這個我覺得這個委員這個建議非常好那我們會往這個方向去研議事實上我們也是希望往這個方向去進行因為這樣的話可以加快整個處理的速度還有能量那你們什麼時候可以研議出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10814.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10832.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
跟委員補充我們現在就有一個平台請各部會把新的關鍵是upload上來新的關鍵我稍早有聽就是部長老師說是你們都是由衛福部來跟你們告知因為那個Domain Knowledge來看他有時候那些是屬於是電子菸這個其實可能要專業才能夠判斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10833.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10857.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
即使是電商 即使每天上架那麼多 這不容易所以會 像主管機關它就會給我們關鍵字每天上來關鍵字電商就可以如果你們要等主管機關跟你們告訴你們這些關鍵字的話那就太慢了嘛那你剛才也有說網路它不斷的上架你們下架之後又有新的網址出來那現在我是想要問那針對打 像是你們打炸你們有做一個APP那同樣的是不是有看到這樣子販賣電子煙或是煙油的網址 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10860.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10889.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
是不是同樣也可以做一個平台放上去 由全民來做通報是 委員這個建議非常好我們往這個方向去發展事實上我們很希望能有這種功能那對我們整體的這種違法商品不單單是典型的但是什麼時候可以做得出來我們要開發系統我們再提供資料給委員開發系統的時間是多長我想你們速發部做一個系統出來不會很久吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10890.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10907.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
這個其實系統本身應該還好但是會有一些因為現在前端確實是衛福部還有法務部還有警政署相關機關可是後端目前我們看到毒品的濫用抒發部你們責無旁貸後端的擴散網路平台治理是在抒發部沒有錯吧是 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10907.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10925.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
OK 沒問題那我也請部長交辦盡快希望我們可以透過網址來做通報好 謝謝委員的建議針對APP 蘇巴部近期也發布了四個中置的APP那我想要請問這是最新的版本嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10927.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10938.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
你說最新的APP嗎還是對這APP是最新的版本嗎應該是最新的版本請那個那個治安署是謝謝委員我想我們今天要用這個最新的版本來做驗測 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10939.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10960.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
所以我們看到這四個APP其實在台灣有一些他們已經改版了然後包括在中國他們也不是目前也不是使用也不是這個APP的版本所以我想要了解你們這一次就是拿出這四個APP來做資安檢測你們的標準是什麼為什麼只挑這四個APP呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10961.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10989.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
我們是根據在台灣地區目前民眾使用比較多的這樣的還有一些餘力的這些APP我們在做自然檢測那你們是依照下載的你們是依照下載量還是使用人數還是民眾檢舉還是你們自己認定他有國安的風險所以才只挑這四個APP根本包括使用下載率因為使用民眾到底有多少其實我們沒辦法得知但是我們是根據下載率下載率等等來做相關的這個挑選 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10991.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11012.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
所以他所謂的風險行為是完全是由訴法部來判定嗎當然是根據這些相關跟民眾有相關的包括一些各自的外洩隱私權還有包括像高德地圖有相關的這些數位足跡行動的這些地理資訊等等相關的風險來做判斷先請問一個問題如果他今天已經修正風險之後你們還會判定他是一個去告風險的APP嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11014.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11030.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
如果已經修正過我們當然可以再做檢測然後再去做一些相關的這個公告那你們的週期是多久目前大概就是幹部長這邊也有指示大概我們兩到我們大概兩到三個月我們都會重新再做檢測 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11031.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11056.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
兩到三個月重新檢測那其實現在不管是中置的APP那也有民眾反映喔那其實不管是像是在網路購入平台或者是說Facebook還是Meta那也有很多詐騙行為在上面進行希望我們 治安的管理當然非常重要那也希望可以擴大不只是針對中置的APP然後也不是只是發新聞稿告訴民眾這個APP有風險你們有沒有後續的作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11057.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11084.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
的確就是委員講的這不一定是中資APP其實其他如果說我們國人常使用的APP如果說它的一些相關的治安風險包括說各自演示前不當的存及使用的話其實我想我們都會拿來做檢測之後發布給就是我們的民眾去注意到這些風險那希望你們可以提供更完整的名單既然你們有做檢測的話好沒問題那委員這邊如果對於哪一個APP有什麼疑慮的話也歡迎跟我們說 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11086.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11114.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
好謝謝好謝謝熊榮華委員謝謝部長接下來我們請魯明哲委員發言好謝謝主席有請我們數位部林部長請數位部林部長我們資安院林院長請資安院林院長資安署蔡署長請蔡署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11116.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11142.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
好 早上次4月8號質詢裡這個特別談到我們治安院發生內鬼的問題這個事情就是說在一個多月以前他們已經來跟我報告所以我都會掌握到這個狀況那因為一開始我們也不曉得說那個牽涉的範圍到底是多大所以這個當然是在這個調查的過程當初是非常重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11143.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11158.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
所以我也希望你跟治安院好好去講一下這件事情不能說誰犯錯就抬起來其他沒事大家繼續我覺得絕對不可能這件事情我覺得有嚴重的管理問題要去處理管理上的問題絕對會處理這不管怎樣我們絕對會處理謝謝委員提醒好現在回來看我們4月8號你給我一個詢答一個答案當時我們的院長林院長也站在旁邊了院長你可以上來一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11170.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11188.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
我看你支支吾吾的回看這影片我自己都快我覺得快笑出來了我真的很佩服你們這個請問一下那個部長你先答一下好了現在你當時就說4月8號問你嘛一個月之前大概3月你知道嗎然後到現在為止剪掉5月12號又衝進去 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11192 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11213.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
是我覺得這丟人真的丟人丟到世界去了搜索第二次那請問一下你查你現在查狀況怎麼樣查到哪個層級還要檢調進去抓人還是你自己知道那個跟委員報告一下並不是因為我沒有辦法所以才找那個調查局因為本來調查這種事情就是最好除了自己內部 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11214.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11235.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
調查以後我們是希望由調查局來調查這個是比較客觀的那該查得出來這樣有些事情這樣才查得出來那你行政的部分你到底做什麼來我們來看一下這明明就有很多的一個憲報然後有很多吹哨子很努力的在人群中一直舉手 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11236.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11262.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
相關的人員 今天你的署長上來 你是董事 你代表董事會待會問你喔 你不是署長喔你們董事到底幹了什麼事 到底懂不懂事 待會你要說明一下喔1月20號 吹哨子就向卓院長喔來舉報我們林院長處罰 是真的假的 不知道嘛我每次都講說是假的 你要把它還一下 清白嘛 對不對如果是真的話 我們還在裡面質詢什麼 什麼東西啊然後你們1月23號 這個院長轉給你們喔 你們由你們數位部 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11265.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11280.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
回覆 當事人 這個案子喔 正在調查中你知不知道這個檢決案 調查如何 請說一下是你數位不回的嘛是 那個 呃你沒有看過那個案子嗎舉發那個 呃 處罰 你指的是這一條嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11285.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11302.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
還是那個簡單來講內容就是舉發這件事情不是到副主任有可能是院長的一個指示林院長這個的部分你有沒有看到這個訊息過因為如果是照這個訊息來講因為是向卓院長舉發那通常這種舉發算是他檢舉我們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11306.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11321.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
資安院的林院長那你們回覆立案調查中會有結果就回覆這個回覆沒有啊你們調查結果出來沒有還是誰知道你們誰在調查我們請那個資安署署長來說明你們這個有收到這個案子有調查結束沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11322.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11336.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
跟委員報告就是有關於檢舉院長的這個部分因為院長是一個管理者所以是交由董事長這邊來處理要董事長嗎對因為院長的事情你董事你們董事會三個月開一次在事發之後你們開過幾次董事會開過兩次其中三次董事會有沒有處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11344.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11361.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
這個部分是由不是冤枉就把它聲冤嘛如果有事實人家拿這麼多事實在裡面的話到底這個事實是不是真的你們有沒有討論這個事情有跟委員報告就是說因為院長的事情所以我們特別在董事會裡面我們請監察人組一個專案的調查小組做一個調查那也找外面的專家就是法律的專家跟學者一起參與這個調查小組做調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11369.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11391.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
調查結果之後有送給這個董事長這邊來你們那個李董事長是不是在護航我也不清楚你們覺得丟人還丟得不夠丟人丟得不夠很多事情你們自己如果發覺是事實你們還要說大家來查我然後會不會真的查好了我相信早晚就事實會露出來嘛那部長再請教你 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11392.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11418.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
你上次請教你的時候你不知道事情的範圍你現在看起來還是沒有很清楚那當時林院長好像也答得不清楚並不是說我不清楚因為在調查的過程中當然有正反兩方的意見那我現在如果公開講這些事情的話這個對於這個檢調這個過程我們通常都會講檢調不公開嘛那我事實狀況都會掌握到那可以說的部分就是可以說不能說的部分我當然不能說啊否則我本身會違法是 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11420.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11436.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
那如果真的違法的人還站在這邊我們來質詢還在跟他聊這個案情會不會有一天會變得很無聊啊我真的很擔心這個事情啊當5月12號第二次搜索向上發展已經有三個人涉案現在第四個人許副主任會不會向上延伸呢那我請問一下這個林恩達院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11438.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11455.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
院長我請問一下你覺得這個事情只有兩種發展的可能性比較有可能第一個是這三四個人自己偷偷做偷偷做就莫名其妙這個三四個人就串在一起了一起一心一德去做一件事情這是一種可能性自發性第二種是根本是一個行政的指示 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11456.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11478.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
行政指示這個用社交工程來去攻擊我們自己的這個部分是一個行政指示就你知道這個許副主任這個上面有你們不管是院長副院長有沒有人指示透過這個郵件組織的漏洞來去做社交工程的一個練習你知道這一個行政指示還他們自己幾個共謀 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11481.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11505.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
這是許到目前為止就是許副主任他的指示那這個部分當然就是目前我們的行政調查看到的那當然檢調有兩波的約談第一波的約談主要是根據我們的院內掌握的在伺服器上的數位足跡 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11506.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11516.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
去鎖定幾個對象做約談那這一波約談之後我們有做解聘的動作因為違反這個勞動契約裡面不得試探飛機業務的機密第二波約談是根據檢調所掌握的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11531.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11557.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
這個個人電腦跟手機上面的數位足跡那我們會找檢調來介入調查主要的原因也是在這裡因為我們沒有公權力去介入去調查同仁的個人電腦跟手機林院長請問一下你跟那個涉案的第一次涉案的那個彭組長彭組長彭敏軍組長你們本身之前熟不熟啊在你來資安院的時候之前熟不熟啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11559.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11568.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
在我們在資安院裡面才變熟的那當然有很多他是你在資安院前身的資安卓越中心的同事對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11571.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11590.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
對那有人說他是你的愛將但我沒證明這怎麼回事因為這個事情很奇怪嘛這個事情在你們治安院一般這種不管是用駭客去練習這是誰的工作是檢測中心的工作檢測中心的一個不同單位怎麼會交代這個前瞻中心這個組長 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11594.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11619.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
3月19號去年3月19號你有沒有開過一個會議委員可能把這個部分跟社交工程演練的部分跟這個漏洞的部分搞在一起你去年3月19號開會主管會議內部在業務討論中間有沒有討論到自然社交工程郵件供給跟線上報告社交工程你還記得這個會議嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11623.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11646.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
他有跟我提說要做比較高強度的社交工程演練那我當時有同意你有同意嗎我同意當時彭敏軍主管跟你的報告的題目叫做資安院社交工程郵件攻擊分析在那邊報告完之後到底是誰准的啊你剛剛講說你有同意嘛所以你同意了這件事情嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11646.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11661.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
你同意這件事情然後事情是不是就後續發生呢到底是怎麼回事這跟後面的後續他們所開發的系統去找去用透過這個各種伺服器軟體所以你同意的是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11662.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11684.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
同意社交工程其實原本很多人搞不清楚什麼叫社交工程跟駭客什麼關係啊駭客覺得寫程式去攻擊太麻煩了而且這種陌生的東西大家現在都很警戒社交工程就用你的朋友好像我的上司寄一封信給我用你熟悉的人事物去騙比較快所以你用這種社交工程做郵件攻擊你確認你也承認了3月19號你有同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11686.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11707.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
這件事情那同意這件事情只是你不知道說這個事情他們是這樣去做沒有他們就是供給供給跟你報告的郵件主機啊就供給啊供給把資料拿出來委員那個我只有同意社交工程演練沒有同意去利用漏洞這兩件事是獨立的 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11708.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11732.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
那他們後續有用到利用漏洞去抓院內的資料那個是另外一件事那是我沒有同意的 我也不知情不是就在找哪裡可以有漏洞去攻擊嗎那所以內部會議的一個重點啦其實我講真的開會又不是你一個人一堆的資訊都傳出來了那也寄到了卓議院長的辦公室也給數位部了 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11733.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11751.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
那董事會也知道了因為在去年這件事情之後六月份 居合市調查報告這兩個人都離職了一個姓劉 一個姓劉寫一個報告 詳細一清二楚3月19號發生什麼事結果 向上報董事會 董事會你們在幹什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11753.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11781.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
你李董事長帶這些董事來做什麼向上報告了向院長向部裡面舉這個人要檢舉人舉手舉到這種地步啊他這邊請問一下你當時這麼多人知道包括這麼多人知道你郵件組織有漏洞有漏洞你不修復然後呢這個前瞻中心的彭靜主任根本他不是你們檢測中心的他被交辦這件事情來做一個演練這件事情齁七合四 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11783.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11803.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
兩位人員他的報告裡面都有描述得很清楚所以我來問你這件事情是因為你們的集合報告也寫得很清楚我不知道要怎麼說了那我再看在第二次搜索的前一天我不知道你們是不是得到現報了你們開了一個馬上開一個緊急會議嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11806.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11834.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
你們緊急會議都在講啊裡面內容是什麼緊急會議管理飢餓暴第一114年3月就3月就是19號嘛特殊社交工程演練專案起源本來是要確認院內的email server有沒有存在漏洞和辦理不符合演練目的你們自己都去檢討這件事喔抱歉我們當時你同意的向他們去演練不符合演練目的這是你們內部的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11835.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11864.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
飢餓表啊 文件啊6月25號你們自己要有答案嘛第二執行方式未符合既有標準流程全責全責分工嘛再來第三114年3月都在講這個特殊社交工程演練專案冒用主管同仁的名義供電子郵件使用違反員工資訊安全的責任其實你們在這個檢討報告就是說我們幹了違法的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11864.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11876.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
我們又幹了違法的事情不管是私訊管理 個資法就是我們去年3月這場會議不管是你主導的會議居然允許讓這個事情去持續的發生你有沒有責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11878.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11900.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
跟委員報告這個部分我有部分責任就是說我們這兩件事一個是說社交工程演練的發動必須要有一定的程序那當時我沒有完全照那個程序所以有在集合式的檢討裡面說這個演練必須要有一定的程序第二個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11901.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11925.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
剛剛委員講的這個漏洞是另外一件事就是說他們利用這個漏洞去做後續的各種抓群院內的資料這個是另外一件事那剛剛委員把這兩件事結合起來一起講就會變成混淆混淆了這是兩件不一樣的事所以你准許他用社交工程去做一些這個不管是類似駭客的東西所以都不用監督 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11926.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11940.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
主要抱歉我交代了一件事情讓他去做但是他怎麼樣去做他怎麼打這麼用力我沒有叫他打這麼用力我的天啊你們後面他還持續在交代就不用監督你們不用持續監督 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11941.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11959.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
不用回報 你這個主管會議是不是一個月開一次他進度 誰來去監督啊你們治安院這樣搞的話我們就很沒有信心你知道嗎很沒有信心董事會 董事會你代表我最後問你一下算了你其他也不要講你們這個董事會到底在幹什麼你們現在人家這個資料是去年年中的計劃報告 去年啊就給你們董事會了你們董事會董事長在包屁是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11970.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11994.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
不是啊 這整個的一個事情搞成這樣搞成這樣然後在3月 去年3月份的一場會議剛剛院長說我也同意了但是社交工程那社交工程 你問駭客是什麼嘛就透過什麼人脈 然後去攻擊那攻擊什麼你現在在怪他攻擊的太大力或者方式 莫名其妙請問一下你們在董事會有沒有討論過這個問題啊這是5月11號 前幾 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12000 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12023.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
不久前的一個報告是董事會裡面會針對這個集合式的這個集合的計劃跟集合結果會做一些相關的這些討論這個是會有的那至於說這個細節部分我想在董事會裡面不會談到這麼細那剛剛院長特別提到電子設計工程的這件事情來講整個過程中或許有些瑕疵不過院長的用心呢是希望說更仿真符合真實的狀況才會用到 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12025.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12046.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
院內同仁的一些名義來送這個社交工程郵件我想出發點還是希望說讓提高同仁在這個治安上面的一些相關警覺這個應該是檢測中心來做的為什麼他跳過給其他單位由彭組長來做你們都沒有去了解嗎所以在程序上剛剛院長也說明了就是說那個程序上的確是有一點點根據程序內來講的確是有點瑕疵好啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12047.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12072.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
就是一點點會發生一件大事部長最後我還是拜託你因為內部行政調查有它的急迫性是你司法去調查最終的一個可能結果一年兩年如果要靠這個這樣是不行的是好不好這部分我們希望你們內部有一些努力謝謝OK 謝謝委員好 謝謝魯冰哲委員 謝謝部長 謝謝院長接下來請宗教編委員發言宗教編不在接下來請王宏威委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12082.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12088.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
謝謝主席 請我們速發部林部長林部長部長早上我有開一個記者會就針對你們每一年都有一個所謂的活動會議影音記錄的標案連續四年都標給同一個工作室 同一個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12110.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12128.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
那這個工作室 洛斯影像工作室的負責人叫做簡孝化那他過去呢 也參與過你們抒發部的一些工作特別是唐鳳 這個部長還有政委我想請問一下 抒發部裡面有人認識這位簡孝化先生嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12129.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12156.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
我認識啊認識好那請問他在書發部裡面的角色到底是什麼事實上剛才也有那個電視台的記者問我類似的就是委員要開記者會嘛我就解釋說其實那個這位簡先生他做的這個事情就跟這個記者都很類似的就是他們在那個收音還有那個錄影還有做那個直播後面的後製然後直播的後製不是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12157.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12173.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
不是那個委員因為有時候有一些國外的那些會議那他希望我去參加或者是我們部內其他的那個次長或者是主任去參加但是我們沒有時間或者是沒有這個經費那個出國的經費包含國內的都2000多萬的經費還不夠好來再講然後我們這時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12179.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12193.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
這時候就是會錄製一些致詞那我接觸到的部分是這個部分那就是我要那請問一下簡孝樺是不是你們速發部的員工不是不是但是你們都認識他因為他長期長期好所以所以他基本上應該是廠商對不對是就是標案的廠商 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12200.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12222.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
那請問一下那過去在你們書發部尤其唐鳳的線上會議啊或者是這個媒體他在這個專題的平台裡面他可以自稱為說他是這個政委辦公室的人或者是說唐鳳辦公室的專案顧問所以我要請教一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12223.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12237.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
他是嗎 就是你是辦公室的顧問跟你是政委辦公室的人跟你是標案的廠商的負責人這中間的分界到底在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12238.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12257.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
這個事情由於是當然是唐鳳部長的時候我還沒有來蘇發部所以請我們那個策略司司長說明一下我跟委員報告這個檢消化這個弱勢公司是我112年5月到蘇發部來認知這個標案就存在那當然是執行到年底之後到去年還有沒有存在 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12258.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12279.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
今年還有沒有存在?有所以你從112年的5月來的時候就一直存在所以沒有錯連續幾年通通都標給這個洛斯影像工作室請問一下這樣的工作是只有我們台灣只有這家公司這家工作室能做嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12280.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12296.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
不是我要跟委員報告因為策略是我們公關在各部會裡面不管國會公關都有獨立的任務編組但是在說話部分其實它是一個科在負責所以我們大概是應實際業務需要所以去辦理的這個標案所以說 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12297.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12315.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
整個的執行過程這標案有沒有公開招標有公開招標但是非常神奇的是都是只有這一家工作室來得標是這樣嗎這個當然就是依照政府採購法我們去招標的結果當然就只有這一家廠商來投只有這一家廠商所以做這種會議記錄剪輯或者來部長沒有辦法參加的時候來訪問一下部長然後部長有一個影片所以我們全台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12326.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12347.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
只有這一家工作室能夠來標案會不會很神奇我會跟委員報告我們大概就是採公開招標方式那到底有多少廠商來參與投標那當然我們就是看廠商的意願所以這中間有取決於履歷的條件或者是我們招標的金額當然也會去限制的一些投標廠商 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12348.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12369.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
我在之前抓到中選會連續幾年都包給三立我抓到我們的原委會連續數年大概都是五六年只包給民視他們的講法都跟你一樣都是採取公開招標但是只有他們來標我也沒有辦法就是只有標給他那另外因為你112年你112年就在我們庶發部負責這些相關的業務那請問一下他一直說他是 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12377.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12396.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
政委辦公室的人你們沒有覺得很奇怪嗎明明知道他是廠商但他都一直對外自稱說是政委辦公室的人或是唐鳳辦公室的顧問你們沒有覺得很奇怪嗎我跟委員報告因為這個若是來承攬我們的標案我們就只針對履約的內容去處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12398.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12414.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
至於他自稱什麼不在你的因為他對我本人他也沒有曾經跟我說過他是政委辦公室你這個到網路上到現在都還有喔他自稱唐珀辦公室專案顧問說我是政委辦公室的笑話 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12416.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12430.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
這都是網路公開的資訊你們都沒有看喔所以跟委員報告你們看到不會覺得奇怪不會因為第一個我是112年5月以後認識他所以請問一下他跟之前的唐鳳政委是不是交情很好 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12431.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12444.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
這個可能要問他這個我就不是很清楚了所以你就不清楚了是是是所以你們看到他在網路上自稱是唐鳳辦公室的人也不覺得有什麼奇怪不是我跟委員報告因為他跟我簽的採購契約就是雙方嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12447.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12456.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
那我們就依照企業的內容去驗收去執行至於跟他對外聲稱什麼只要沒有影響到我這個標案的內容我們當然不會去過問我在這邊要特別指出因為我非常重視沒宣費的使用我們現在已經發現實際因為各部會那種過度集中於單一媒體或單一公司的情形非常非常的嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12471.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12487.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
讓我們不解我剛才若以部長講的他所做的所謂的會議記錄的這些影音我覺得台灣台灣沒有沒有上百也有上千吧工作室也好公司也好這個各個各項的公關公司都有 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12488.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12512.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
可是為什麼述發部成立以來幾乎年年而且金額從原來的八十萬到了一百一四年已經增加到一百二十萬而且永遠都由這一家工作室來得標你說沒有貓膩 沒有奇怪我想大家很難取信於社會大眾所以我在這邊再度的要求不要每次都以所謂的公開招標為由 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12516.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12529.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
因為這種連續好幾年都單一完全集中於單一公司 單一媒體每個都以所謂的公開招標為由然後其他公司通通不來標不奇怪嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12531.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12555.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
因為其他公司都知道了你們幾乎都指定了謝謝委員的垂詢那大概這個一年80那剛剛委員講到120萬這個是大概18個月所以除起來大概還是一年是80這特別說明第二個委員大概有說明到說長年來都是單一個廠商來投標的這個部分我們就接受委員的建議我們回去會檢討謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12556.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12569.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
好 不要再繼續都是單一廠商 我覺得很難取信於社會大眾好不好 謝謝是 謝謝委員好 謝謝好 謝謝王國煥委員 謝謝部長接下來我們請謝龍介委員發言 謝龍介不在現在請楊瓊瑩委員發言謝謝主席 楊瓊瑩發言 邀請部長來 請林部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12593.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12614.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
市長早安部長好詐騙已經成為台灣的民眾最有感的治安問題之一是政府成立了打架國家隊通過了打詐專法要求社群平台配合下架詐騙的廣告但是民眾最關心的是什麼呢是詐騙到底有沒有變少 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12615.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12640.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
如果說詐騙的案件跟財損是持續的居高不下那麼政府花了那麼多的人力花了那麼多的預算法制的一個改善那實際的成效到底在哪裡那我們看到最主要的接觸來源仍舊集中在Facebook、Instagram、LINE、Google這些的廣告應該是Stripe現在一直在增長 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12640.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12657.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
一直在掙扎好你這個回答非常好既然你知道主要的來源已經掌握可是為什麼我們每天所碰到的還是這麼的多民眾打開手機還是能夠看到大量的詐騙的廣告我給你一個數字從今年的1月1號到4月30號Meta |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12662.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12691.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
所屬的社群平台所涉及的詐騙案件是將近一萬四千多件他的佔比就像您說的最多的84.31財損13億多他的財損比例是顯性的86.2%那顯示Meta所屬的社群平台是詐騙集團最主要的詐騙廣道所以在這樣的一個情況之下 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12692.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12710.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
你既然已經掌控那你平台所接獲的檢舉後呢你平均多久請他下降你重複刊登的詐騙帳號到底有多少裸犯的廣告的名單 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12712.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12727.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
請說明關於那個平台借貨選舉以後平均多久的下架那這個我們一直在掌控多久3.5個小時3.5個小時下架在Facebook上重複的部分呢累分的部分呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12728.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12755.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
重複的部分因為現在那個在Meta上面的那個犯罪的模式他們是會用那個開了那個帳號以後他在下面在開那個粉絲頁粉絲頁上面在放那個廣告等等那這個資料是掌握在Meta那邊所以我們已經要求Meta他們用他們AI的方式去移除這個重複刊登詐騙廣告的這個帳戶然後他截至去年7月對不起我們最後的數字他們7月跟我講他們已經下架了780萬則的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12759.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12784.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
那個內容 針對台灣的這個內容他們就是用這種方法來查詢的另外他們在全球780萬有 這個絕對有重複所以他們也跟我們講說他們在全球下架了430萬個就是這種重複下這種詐騙廣告的這些帳號不過這個430萬不是單單對台灣的因為很多的是之前在柬埔寨這詐騙園區裡面的這些就像太子集團他們這個詐騙的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12785.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12790.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
部長請問針對於平台開發的有多少件我們現在開發事件總共是1850萬開發事件財經1850萬是 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12797.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12812.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
這哪些平台招這個採訪Meta所以我們必須要好好的去防堵怎麼樣精益求精的方案出來接下來本席要請問蘇發布在115年度裡頭你編列的詐騙相關的經費是4.5億多左右那你是為了要強化科技辨別的這個防詐服務同時在整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12823.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12850.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
這個詐騙的這個通報查詢平台跟辦理詐騙違法事證收集跟這個情資的這個部分呢來共享所以部長我要請問一個最核心的問題也就是書法部每一年你投了大量的打詐預算那麼請教你的KPI是什麼是下架廣告數量通報件數平台配合率還是詐騙財損的實際下降 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12852.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12874.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
我們現在主要的KPI就是委員講的前面兩件事情我們現在下架的網站通報查詢網站下架廣告數量已經累積到46萬件然後通報數量是有90多萬件然後呢那個平台這個配合當然就是我們剛才講的就是3.5個小時他就會下架這個是我們主要的那個KPI至於那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12874.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12874.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
對你的本業 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12904.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12920.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
你的本質剛剛您說的您是KPI第一個下降廣告數量第二個通報件數第三個平台配合率但是我要告訴你的是民眾所要看的不是你下降了多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12920.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12949.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
而是我的錢有沒有被騙這是重點 也就是詐騙財損有沒有實際下降才是我們民眾所需要的沒錯 這個就像一個棒球隊一樣每個人有每個人的那個譬如說三壘守三壘 游擊守游擊那我們就是數法部我們守的就是那個網路的這個部分你守的是網路的部分 但是現在的現象財損並沒有下降而且在增加你的末端是在增加 你要怎麼樣去防堵 所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12950.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12965.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
我個人要告訴你你是不是要去檢討現行的機制也就是新的平台責任強化這個方案是您說呢我們一定會努力一定會努力在想辦法改進的 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12966.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12986.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
你怎麼想辦法改進 你告訴我們 你們到目前為止他的財損是增加的 是民眾非常難過的所以在這樣的情況之下 請問你可以怎麼樣去調整 你多久時間可以調整你的新的平台的這個責任強化的一個方案 告訴社會大眾你多久時間可以告訴我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12992.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13011.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
你討論新的方案你多久時間可以告訴我們如果說要整體的那個財損數字的話這個真的是要問內政部的那個打炸智慧中心那前面三項這個我剛剛已經跟董元報告過了下架廣告數量到現在是46萬件通報數量是96萬件平台配合率下架是百分之百如果時間的話是3.5小時檢討現行的這個機制有精進的空間你們去討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13015.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13033.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
我們的目的是要讓詐騙廣告上不了架我們要讓假帳號活不下去我們要讓詐騙集團賺不到錢這才是我們運用了這麼多的人力這麼多的預算我們要達到的一個目的是 同意 完全同意好 謝謝好 謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13035.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13043.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
好 謝謝楊瓊瑜委員 謝謝部長接下來我們請鄭振賢委員發言鄭振賢 鄭振賢不在請洪維強委員發言 洪維強不在現在請武麗華委員發言謝謝主席 有請部長好 我們請林部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13063.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13092.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
委員早安部長好大家都很關心關於詐騙那最主要的原因是因為近年來這個詐騙的數量或者是財損的金額或者是翻新的手法都令人責捨啊甚至國際間已經把我們封為詐騙之島所以我看到我們速發部在115年的業務報告其中你們的四大施政主軸之一就是落實打詐行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13093.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13109.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
那我知道你們就是負責管理這些網路的廣告平台也好或者是第三方支付的這種金流的源頭但是我想說速發部其實可以拯救國人那另外一個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13110.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13137.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
打仗掃毒因為我最近接到太多太多的陳情都請我們立委要關心目前關於這個喪屍煙彈的一個氾濫的情形那我們每天打開新聞也都可以看到毒價這樣的一個報導所以可以想像其實這個問題已經非常的嚴重那我想請教一下行政院這邊有沒有給書發布任務了 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13139.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13163.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
事實上有跟我們任務就是我們要跟衛福部密切合作把這個網路上的這些販賣電子菸還有這些毒品的這些不管是網站或者是網頁或者是商品一定要盡快地把它阻絕盡快地把它下架我想這個部分想要了解一下就是目前你們能夠做AI自動偵測掃描的平台軟體網站有哪些 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13168.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13187.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
這件事情是不是請我們素材署說明一下主要是國人接觸最多的包括Meta的幾個網站包括Facebook、Trade跟Instagram還有Google跟LINE還有就四大平台我們都會掃描還有C2C的電商LINE可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13188.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13202.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
LINE可以掃到那因為他有說是秘密通訊的部分就沒有辦法所以是有破口的秘密通訊的部分的確是因為有一些那速發部有沒有反制的方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13204.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13222.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
LINE的部分分成兩個部分一個是公開的廣告還有公開的頻道這個地方我們當然會去掃描會去阻絕至於說民眾他自己的私人通訊因為這個受到憲法的保障人民有秘密通訊的自由除非我們明顯的事證知道說他已經在犯罪所以我們沒辦法去看他 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13223.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13247.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
內容那我們現在是在努力在跟LINE去溝通那我們就希望說LINE他希望用一個科技的方式去掃描他的內容但是因為LINE他是一家日本的公司他非常的保守所以我們很努力在跟他溝通我們希望他能配合那你們有沒有去想過可能會有哪一些破口有哪些平台例如抖音可以處理嗎是 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13250.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13270.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
抖音也是我們納管的平台之一它目前的配額度都蠻好的所以如果我們有一些叫下架的話它其實是蠻容易配合我其實是特別關心因為它有點像老鼠會等比級數的增長其實關於這個所謂的喪屍煙彈因為它很容易藏匿也很容易購買取得 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13271.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13281.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
那加上呢現在這個電子煙的載具煙具也造成很大的麻煩當然我們都要齊頭並進但是重點是我要講的是速度它成長的速度非常的驚人所以在速發部這個地方我們特別希望就是能夠發揮到功能我剛剛有講速發部可以拯救國人不是只有打炸掃毒我們可以做很多的事情我們寄予厚望 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13297.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13321.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
所以這個部分我是想說是不是可以在一個月內其實一個月是有點慢啦但是我是希望說能夠怎麼做既然行政院已經交付任務那怎麼樣去針對這一些電子菸載具網路販售這個部分有什麼因應之道我希望一個月內給我報告好不好那另外一個部分我也關心就是NCC |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13323.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13338.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
通傳會為什麼我關心在去年發生一個很驚人的事情啊那就是竟然當時的颱風造成霧露力道它斷路嘛就會斷電嘛然後就會斷網嘛但是呢 好扯 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13339.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13364.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
因為大家那時候正在關心馬太安事件結果是第三天剛好那個地方廠商他有衛星電話才有辦法把消息傳出來我真的覺得2025年發生這樣的事情不可思議啊那過去我其實知道的是我們做蠻多特別是在前瞻的之後像我自己的部分我有關心光是在山區 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13365.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13369.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
建置5G基地台112到113兩年間208座那改善這些山區林道通訊柄子呢也有13處強化這個基地台的也有37座那我看了你們這次115到118 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13382.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13397.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
新核定的這個偏鄉通訊網路數位韌性計畫你們有特別這個很好你們也說是延續前瞻計畫的經驗持續的規劃但是呢我看了一下我就有點看不懂 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13397.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13417.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
我感到很憂心因為115 116 117 118你們都有所謂的KPI要累計的件數但是與過去光是跟112 113這兩年相比相差甚遠 差很多然後呢我又看了你們11年度各機關通訊改善需求案件預估 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13419.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13435.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
只有六案有行政院客委會行政院內政部南投縣政府衛生福利部我就不曉得說原鄉咧原民會呢是不是可以說明一下是跟委員報告兩個部分第一部分當初那個是中華電信有 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13436.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13451.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
有OneWeb後來是透過這個蔓延方式來處理那謝謝委員當時有垂選也有在督促那第二部是一棒接一棒在111年8月27日數位部成立之後這個原來這個前瞻的部分原來是NC執行後來就是由任性的主管相關機關來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13452.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13479.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
那這邊我們還是會同這個書發部這邊來來繼續來處理那偏鄉的5G的基站建設那一向是我們NCC跟跟中市這個數位落差的相關機關都會一併來處理那其實過往這個有些合併案的時候我們也要求這個存續公司都是病人家公司也會持續來加強要求那未來只要偏鄉地區有需求我們大概 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13480.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13497.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
除了這個常規上的常規上的一些任性的建設的一些規劃之外只要個案上偏向必須有需求地方有需求我們都會非常都會積極找找業者來攜線看看哪邊然後來幫他們找一些資源來拼 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13498.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13523.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
謝謝主委我就喜歡你剛剛說只要偏鄉有任何的需求即便不在計畫內你們都會支持那我現在就是跟你講一個需求因為前瞻計畫的時候原民會有做一個iTRAP i部落那對很多偏鄉地區的人來講他可以取得這個免費的網路他們覺得很好但是呢聽說前瞻計畫結束了之後要交給地方如果地方又不管 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13524.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13550.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
那這到底要誰要管因為很多地方的議員都在地方的議會都在質詢這件事這部分我相信我們可以跟蘇發部或找相關機關來來商討看如何來改進好那謝謝齁那這個其餘的部分齁我想會後的部分我們再來討論齁好謝謝主委謝謝主席好謝謝吳立華委員謝謝主委我們接下來請葉元之委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13566.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13591.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
主席 請NCC主委好 請陳主委博恩官博恩好 那個上次跟你問過現在NCC好像到7月就會沒有委員了嗎是那我上次說請你跟卓委院長講一下NCC沒有委員會造成什麼狀況不知道你有跟他講了嗎有 至少講三次那他的態度是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13592.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13606.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
那個院裡頭大概說都有廣泛徵詢各界的各界人才但是都不好找不容易找喔是喔那他有廣泛徵但是不好找所以NCC就沒有委員了 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13607.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13622.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
就沒有委員了就是因為卓永泰跟你講說他知道這個事情很嚴重但是呢不好找所以乾脆就不要有委員那主委戴主委您這個就您的看法啦NCC這樣子還算是一個獨立機關嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13624.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13650.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
獨立機關我們當初為什麼會成立NCC這個背景你應該也知道嘛知道對不對仿照美國的FCC覺得要有一個獨立的機關監管媒體嘛政治不要深入到媒體裡面所以要有一個NCC結果現在NCC的存廢啊是看行政院長他有沒有積極廣泛的去找委員我相信如果他認真去找還是有人會想要做但是他不認為這個事情重要嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13651.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13678.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
所以就擺爛了6月 您的任期到6月底嗎到7月31號然後接下來我看媒體報導是說要指派一個代理主委是吧這是報派報派的嘛 代理主委然後呢NCC就從獨立機關變首長制然後因為是行政院指派的指派的所以就聽行政院的然後就可以更可以把政治的手伸到媒體 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13679.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13696.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
不會發生這種事情因為組織法九條二項六款等等其實很多都是委員會保留事項沒有委員會就沒有無法組成委員會沒有委員會很多重大的決策重大的法令自修都沒有辦法做那代表說行政院不認為這些事情很重要沒有人做也無所謂 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13697.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13723.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
不是 但是還有其他這個不用委員會處理的層次的部分有些是我們外面機關處理的戴主委你也很為難啦因為問題不在你啦我只是透過跟你的詢答凸顯我覺得行政院根本就在開玩笑嘛從來不把這個NC的業務當一回事七月底就沒有委員了然後你自己覺得很嚴重很多事情會停擺但行政院長官不當一回事 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13724.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13741.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
那這裡凸顯NCE好像可有可無嘛沒有沒有那我可以看你們的報告啦你裡面有一個業務是說要你們還是要致力努力讓有線電視普及化我想問一下喔有線電視訂戶的這個最高峰是2017年嘛當時全台灣有526.9萬戶嘛現在剩幾萬戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13746.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13756.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
大概掉了十幾%所以剩幾萬戶四百多萬四百三十一萬是嗎是好那結果你們的業務還是要努力的讓有線電是普及化 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13758.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13779.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
我光看這個報告我就覺得NCT根本沒有跟上數位匯流時代沒有 我們是致力於讓它如果這世界潮流我們是要期待業者能夠做一些對應的轉型你的報告上面講說你們就是要致力於讓有線電視普及化你們報告上面寫的是沒錯 有些是偏向那些地方很需要的現在在講什麼現在是在講說數位匯流啦那有線電視為什麼會出現減線潮 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13785.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13808.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
我看你們報告這樣子寫就知道你根本就完全沒有這個概念嘛現在就是因為數位匯流很多OTT平台嘛很多年輕人他已經不看有線電視了嘛他轉到網路上面去所以當有年輕人他比如說他自己變成一戶的時候他就不會去接有線電視因為他的主要都是以網路為主嘛才會出現這個有線電視訂屋下降那你現在是你現在策略是努力向年輕人去推廣有線電視嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13809.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13825.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
不是 他們現在都是幫助服務一起提供很多有線電視都是早期可能是買有線送寬頻現在有很多是寬頻跟有線其實是幫助在一起服務所以你講的這些都是很細節啦但是大的潮流就是數位匯流嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13825.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13841.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
所以我建議我是說NCC應該去如果因應數位匯流時代你要思考的是怎麼樣鬆拔歸鬆綁面對不同的平台其實都在做同一件事情可是你對有線電視的管理是非常嚴格但對其他的平台你是沒有辦法管理也不能管 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13841.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13866.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
那既然是這樣子應該要鬆綁這才有因應數位匯流啦那我覺得現在沒有委員沒有委員那是行政院造成的但你們也可以去思考一下如果今天NCC真的停擺那如果假設有人倡議廢掉NCC你們是不是可以針對你們的業務特別是這種違背潮流的東西可以做個改革好不好這個你們去規劃一下我們就其實在以時俱進來做我們促使SO來做轉型 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13870.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13886.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
對啦 就看不到嘛 好不好謝謝 謝主委啦因為反正你在兩個月啦希望在下台之前可以針對好不好這個剛剛講的事情做一點事情好 那主席再給我兩分鐘吧我問一個簡單的事情 問一下速發部謝委謝謝 謝主委兩分鐘 簡單的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13893.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13909.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
可以嗎 有齁部長 關心一下打炸很快跟您問一下蘇巴部的打炸這塊主要是在網路上面主炸那有一個 你們有做一個網路的詐騙通報查詢網之前我也有關心過 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13909.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
13936.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
那我是覺得在介面上面可以再做更好一點然後才可以幫助主詐這是你們的介面我們現在秀出來的部分你可以輸入這個可疑的網址然後手機號碼跟驗證碼然後接下來你們就會去查譬如說這個網址牽涉到內政部的或者衛福部的或什麼部你們就會轉給主管機關讓他去查查完之後你們就會告訴民眾說這到底是不是詐騙對吧是而且會下架通知會下架我知道那我們接下來看那我覺得有兩個問題第一個問題是 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
13939.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
13966.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
下一頁好不好一個問題是這個是你們的比例在FB上面被通報是最多的然後Google然後再來就是Instagram等等但是在LINE這塊就比較少那其實LINE上面的詐騙是非常多非常多可是為什麼你們在你們的網站上在你們這個通報網上面LINE的比例比較低有一個很主要的原因我直接告訴你是因為LINE不好通報 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
13967.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
13993.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
因為在你們的介面上面主要是以貼網址為主所以LINE不好通報很多人就不會在這個上面通報可是實際上LINE可不可以通報呢其實可以你還是有辦法我沒有做那個嘛就是你還是可以把LINE把它轉成一個網址貼到這個上面但是因為大家都不知道所以就失去了一個就是用這個通報網去檢舉LINE的機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
13994.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
14022.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
那我希望說在這個介面上面你們可以做一點改良是好不好把這個LINE因為LINE這個詐騙很多是你要嘛就是宣導說怎麼去把LINE的東西轉成網址你去宣導這個事不然就是你在介面上做一個比較針對LINE的使用者友善的部分是非常謝謝委員的建議我們會朝正方向發展那如果委員這邊還有比較具體的一些建議或者是訊息的話麻煩再提供給我們再提供給你們然後還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
14024.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
14037.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
後面還有一個問題就是你秀出那個介面因為現在很多人是他看到一個網址他就貼過來你就通知比如說FB下架但是那個帳號會一直貼 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
14039.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
14054.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
他會一直貼啊是所以網路上就有在講啊嘿他說我有通報審核了但是但是對方就一直貼啊是那你那你為什麼沒有除你們除了把那個網址下架之外你沒有辦法把他的帳號是做一個處理嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
14055.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
14083.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
是這個地方我們有在就是要求Meta把這些重複的這些發這個詐騙的帳號就是下架那他們也做了一些作為看起來還做得不夠好我們會請他們那個改善因為他們只有在他們在後台他可以很清楚的看到哪幾個帳號是相關聯的不單是同一個帳號有時候他這些帳號是用同一支手機或同一個email去註冊的這個其實那個Meta那邊都查得到我們會要求他們謝謝你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
14085.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
14109.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
對 否則網友就說我一直防不勝防因為很多貼文其實都一樣的都是一樣的只是他貼很多次是那你只是把那個貼文下架但帳號還在所以沒有辦法這樣進行就是Thread還是對都一樣啊都一樣啊因為Thread的那個記事不太一樣Thread上面也有啊對 都一樣啊OK對 這是一個型態是是 這個是一樣我覺得你印編譽傳做這個通報網就把它做到好啦好 謝謝謝謝委員謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
14112.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
14135.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
好 謝謝葉元之委員 謝謝部長接下來我們請劉昊委員發言謝謝召委 還有請部長好 我們請林部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
14140.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14154.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
委員午安部長午安那也謝謝部長上次那個我剛好臉書也遇到被詐騙所以那時候部長也是神救援那時候是Facebook的部分但是這個部分剛才一路的今天的許多的資訊那 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14156.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14183.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
我個人是要謝謝部長但是全民的詐騙的部分的防堵雖然那個資安治理的成熟度那其實這個部分還是我們需要來做一下檢視那在行政院的國家發展委員會制定的資安治理成熟度的評估機制分六級在二十多年來的一個資安發展那你認為在目前政府跟民間企業的話在這個幾級的評估值那目前的話大概是達到什麼水準 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14185.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14205.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
這個事情是不是請資安署署長來說謝謝委員剛剛的提問就是有關資安治理成熟度部分應該是月二三十五級那三級應該是說你有一些相關標準的一些SOP等等來追尋那目前我們政府機關A級跟B級我們希望說它至少達到三級以上這樣的一個資安治理成熟度那達到了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14207.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14224.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
第三集那還有多少的進步空間當然因為像第四集是因為他不斷的這個精進第五集他也是創新等等的那這個都是要各機關大家一起來努力好那沒關係那這個就是做一個開頭那因為看了許多的一個預算書裡面寫的確實都非常漂亮 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14226.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14253.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
那包括AI治理數位任性TRO的雲端備援主權AI後量子密碼多模態分析智慧防詐名詞都非常炫但是民眾最想知道目前詐騙有沒有變少那想請教一下部長那目前來講的詐騙案件在這個剛才也看到原子委員嗅到許多的詐騙媒介的一個平台跟這個數量那這個今年的金額啊那跟去年比較起來啊那現在年過了快要一半 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14253.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14278.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
那今年的詐騙金額有沒有信心能夠比去年的總額還要低因為跟委員報告那個因為這個詐騙是行政院各個部會要共同努力的那我們現在速發部負責的主要是網路的詐騙這個部分那現在最近的趨勢那個看起來是說網路的詐騙是有在減少但是原來很多的詐騙轉回那個原始比較原始的那個電話詐騙還有實際拜訪這是第一個趨勢那另外一個趨勢是那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14282.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14304.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
在那個Facebook上的那個詐騙廣告已經大幅減少但是很多的詐騙轉到Thread那Thread上面這不是廣告它是由使用者的貼文它本身並不是廣告還有再來就是在模仿名人的方面原先都是那我想請教一下那今年的這個詐騙的金額有沒有把握比去年的這個金額還要低 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14305.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14324.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
這個我們會跟內政部一起努力啦有信心嗎整體的這個還是必須請政府回答這個不能詐騙等一下那個圖品的部分也要跟您討論那因為這個部分還是要建議一下就是審計部同時也指出在目前AI掃描主要是涵蓋Meta的資料庫那Google、YouTube、Line、TikTok的平台其實並沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14325.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14346.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
完整納入表示說目前的這種防炸的部分是處於一種選擇性巡邏的狀態所以說包括深圍的AI有沒有即時的識別能力甚至包括要即時能夠把它防堵或下架目前來講在這個的處理上有沒有跟其他的部會有一個跨的平台的聯防的系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14347.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14364.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
OK 關於身為AI的部分那我們現在就是跟那個GoogleMeta還有Line等這些大平台我們就是跟他們溝通就是說在我們現在就是要求第一個就是由他們的工具產生的身為影像或者是 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14364.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14385.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
影片一定要那個有標示這個標示有顯性標示雖然隱性標示那我們希望他是顯性標示就是說這個是身為產生的還有另外一個就是由第三方的工具產生的那個身為影像他們也要想辦法去偵測說他是不是AI產生如果偵測得到他一定要標示好那直接跟部長也提到那 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14386.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14412.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
第一就是說剛才想說身為影片的這個標示的部分其實我們辦公室團隊其實也預料到出發不會這麼回答那所以剛才大家稍微也花了半個小時搜尋一下其實多數的這種AI生成的影片過半以上其實都還是沒有這樣的標示啦不管是臉書或者是包括TikTok的部分其實多數還是沒有標示啦那我也看到市長就是也是有點頭顱倒算啦所以說我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14413.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14437.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
看如何能夠來精進啊這個部分再加強那同樣的說在2025年的詐騙的金額是893億啊那所以本席也希望說在今年的部分的話是這個金額能夠是降低那同樣的剛才在月圓之委員剛剛有提到的這個詐騙的媒介平台啊這讓我想到在上個月我去竹山的時候婦女會跑行程的時候他們一直在提到小紅書的問題啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14439.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14463.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
那本席還是覺得因為目前來講速發部他還是一個治理平台的概念他不是選擇平台來治理或選擇平台來修理所以說大家想要問一下現在小紅書的部分他目前是網頁被封那APP仍然可用那相關的這種狀況來講在許多的民眾懂得當然還是可以用APP在使用那這樣子的部分在防詐 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14464.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14484.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
或是身為影片的部分那書法部到底有沒有來協助或是介入一起處理首先就是講說那個像小紅書這樣的那個APP裡面的身為影像那個事實上因為中國他在法律上對於這個身為影像的要求是非常嚴格的所以就我們了解他們這個在這個中國的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14487.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14515.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
這些那個APP裡面照理說這些身為的影像他都應該要是有標示的那這個我們會去注意那至於說那個小紅書的那個那個網頁這個下架風阻這個是內政部的決定內政部打造指揮中心那他們的主要原因是因為他們發通知給那個小紅書請他們配合的時候他們的反應就是沒有反應這個是內政部他做的決定那我們書發部是執行的單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14515.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14534.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
其實我還是要建議一下,速發部可能跟他們是有相關的一個連結、聯繫的平台,但是內政部並沒有。那通常內政部有時候如果少數的官員故意的用意識形態來去做任何的政策或是溝通的時候,通常被得到已讀不回,不管是中方或是美方都是有可能的啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14535.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14550.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
所以說還是建議說速發部其實在這種平台的部分有效的管理才能夠有效的協助民眾去做一個防詐所以說在這個部分小紅柱的部分是現況啦但是沒有關係就是至少來講在裡面有關於詐騙風險的部分還是請速發部多費心 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14552.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14577.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
是 謝謝委員提醒那同樣的就是在剛才那個毒品上市煙彈那主要是金流物流資訊流那但是金流的部分的話其實境外的網站那下單金流在境外所以不好追查那物流的部分有時候他們那種上市煙彈他們是透過這個物流司機他們在運送那所以到時候有狀況的時候其實物流的這個司機他等於是他就等於是運送毒品 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14578.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14602.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
但是在資訊流的部分才能夠實際去解決那目前只有封鎖是在搜尋引擎的前面的幾個網站但是實際上要把這個上時驗彈的部分來去協助警政署來去解決的話其實速發部會扮演關鍵角色在反向追查的這種甚至包括上時驗彈的話那速發部有沒有這樣子的系統跟方案甚至說有沒有這樣子執行的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14602.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14625.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
OK 在上市煙彈這方面的防堵第一個我們當然是會用AI的方式跟衛福部配合第一個先趕快的去找到販賣的網頁或者是網站再來就是我們快速的封鎖下架這個也是需要跟衛福部配合因為由他們來發通知給我們我們這邊就會馬上下架 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14627.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14641.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
再來就是我們希望能用我們過去打詐的經驗像網站通報查詢網等類似的機制我們也希望說接下來能用在這個打擊毒品方面讓民眾也能去舉報讓我們也能快速的去確認然後快速的通知各個網站去下架 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14642.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14671.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
稍微我再借一下一分鐘本起來是覺得說像衛福部這邊跟速發部這邊確認完了之後才進行這個回頭來講去鎖定以及包括找到源頭那其實這個部分當然時間有限也沒有再問部長說到底那這一個月或上個月甚至從今年度到現在的話大約有多少件事用這樣子的一個案件或是包括成功來破獲的一個案件我們來就是那個簡短回答數字即可 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14675.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14688.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
今年的話我們在透過DNSRPZ然後這個停滯解析電子菸跟毒品的網域件數的話分別是4100件到跟14件破獲是14件嗎是封組網域的部分那剛剛報的那個數字是一個網域不是一個件數而已那14件的話是 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14701.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14717.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
14件是毒品的部分那封住網頁的話其實有時候系統它可以直接封住啦但是這個部分就是等於是把它屏蔽掉的意思但是問題是今天來講的話回查到源頭的話總共14件那我坦白講以目前來講我們看到這個毒品地圖它不斷的擴散的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14718.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14743.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
甚至連南投縣的草屯南投祖山都有淪陷所以說本席還是要建議說抒發部在這個部分跟衛福部或是跨部會的一個治理平台的一個溝通上可以轉換為主動出擊的角色因為我們必須要來去嚇阻或是直接來去查獲這些所有在賣毒品或是喪食煙彈的源頭我們才能夠保護我們的年輕人跟過敏謝謝委員的提醒謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14753.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14774.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
登記諮詢委員均已發言完畢 我們做以下決定第一 報告及詢談完畢二 委員傅坤祺 何欣淳 洪玉祥 謝榮介 陳素月委員所提的書面諮詢列入紀錄並刊登公報三 委員於諮詢中要求提供相關書面資料或為其答覆部分請訴發部 通傳會及相關單位緊述以書面答覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
14776.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
14796.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
針對今日會議註以下決議115年度速發部資安署速產署通傳會單位預算及通訊傳播監督管理基金有限廣播電視事業發展基金分業預算審查報告及巡查完畢令定期進行處理委員提案於6月10日下午4點截止收件散會 |