| IVOD_ID |
17486 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17486 |
| 日期 |
2026-06-03 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-26-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
13 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2026-06-03T08:36:58+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-06-03T17:09:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
08:32:02 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/bfaf9b39ac01a685e66ab847b1d2194e51c73ad117d06306807a15c9b87617157810a38703fb203a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-06-03T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：(6月3日上午9時起)
一、審查「性別平等工作法」修正草案等100案。
(一)委員范雲等17人擬具「性別平等工作法部分條文修正草案」案。
(二)委員郭昱晴等17人擬具「性別平等工作法第十五條條文修正草案」案。
(三)委員萬美玲等35人擬具「性別平等工作法第十五條條文修正草案」案。
(四)委員黃秀芳等18人擬具「性別平等工作法第十五條條文修正草案」案。
(五)委員黃健豪等21人擬具「性別平等工作法第二十條條文修正草案」案。
(六)委員黃健豪等21人擬具「性別平等工作法第十九條之一及第二十一條條文修正草案」案。
(七)委員李彥秀等22人擬具「性別平等工作法第十五條條文修正草案」案。
(八)委員許智傑等25人擬具「性別平等工作法第二十條條文修正草案」案。
(九)委員吳宗憲等16人擬具「性別平等工作法第十四條條文修正草案」案。
(十)委員吳宗憲等17人擬具「性別平等工作法第十五條條文修正草案」案。
......(因系統字數上限，詳見議事日程)
二、審查「就業保險法」修正草案等88案。
(一)委員謝衣鳯等19人擬具「就業保險法第十條、第十一條及第十九條之三條文修正草案」案。
(二)委員范雲等17人擬具「就業保險法第十一條及第十九條之二條文修正草案」案。
(三)委員許宇甄等22人擬具「就業保險法第十一條條文修正草案」案。
(四)委員邱鎮軍等20人擬具「就業保險法第十一條條文修正草案」案。
(五)委員謝衣鳯等17人擬具「就業保險法第十四條條文修正草案」案。
(六)委員黃健豪等20人擬具「就業保險法第十條、第十一條及第十九條之三條文修正草案」案。
(七)委員林淑芬等23人擬具「就業保險法第十一條及第十九條之三條文修正草案」案。
(八)委員徐欣瑩等20人擬具「就業保險法第十九條之二條文修正草案」案。
(九)委員涂權吉等16人擬具「就業保險法第十條、第十一條及第十九條之二條文修正草案」案。
(十)委員王育敏等18人擬具「就業保險法部分條文修正草案」案。
......(因系統字數上限，詳見議事日程)
【綜合詢答，僅詢答】
【第一（一○○）案及第二（八十八）案，如經復議則不予審查】
(6月3日下午2時30分起)
(6月3日若上午議程尚未結束，待結束後接續召開)
一、繼續審查中華民國115年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部主管預算。(公務及非營業特種基金預算案)。
二、繼續審查勞動部函送財團法人職業災害預防及重建中心115年度預算書案。
【6月3日、6月4日二天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:36:58 - 17:09:00 |
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好 現在開會請組密報告出席人數報告委員會 出席委員9人 已組法定人數請議事人員宣讀上次會議事務 |
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立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議事錄時間115年5月28日上午9時至下午14時3分地點群憲樓801會議室出席委員林月琴等15人列席委員洪孟凱等9人列席官員衛生福利部部長石崇良及各相關部會主管主席盧昭吉委員現役報告事項宣讀上次會議事錄議事錄確定通過覆議案兩項請 |
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委員自行參閱討論事項審查一 國民黨黨團擬拒施治政基本法草案案二 臺灣民眾黨黨團擬拒施治政基本法草案案三 委員林月琴等19人擬拒施治政基本法草案本次會議經委員王玉敏代表國民黨黨團邱惠如委員代表臺灣民眾黨黨團及林月琴委員 |
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林月琴委員說明提案指去由衛生福利部部長室沖涼說明後委員林月琴等19人提出質詢均經衛生福利部部長室沖涼及各相關部會主管即席答覆委員圖圈及等二人所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報決議一說明及詢答完畢二委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資料者請相關機關於二周內以書面答覆委員另要求其限則從其所定三失智症基本法草案等三案令則其繼續審查宣讀完畢 |
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1641.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
請問委員會上次議事錄有無錯誤或遺漏之處議事錄確定本日會議分下午場次上午議程為審查委員範圍等17人凝聚性別平等工作法部分條文修正草案等100案及委員謝一鳳等19人凝聚就業保險法第10條第11條及第19條之3條文修正草案等88案 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1642.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1669.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
接著我們介紹在場委員王振旭委員林淑芬委員邱惠璐委員張家俊委員王玉明委員牛喜廷委員黃孟楷委員徐宇貞委員那接下來介紹我們的列席官員 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1672.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1694.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
勞動部洪森漢部長勞動力發展署黃玲玉署長勞工保險局白立珍局長職業安全衛生署林玉堂署長勞動及職業安全衛生研究所王厚誠所長勞動關係師王厚偉師長 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1700.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1724.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
勞動保險師 陳美女 師長勞動福祉退休師 黃維春 師長勞動條件及就業平等師 黃綺雅 師長勞動法務師 傅惠芝 師長全系部全省師 林戴帆 專委法規師 黃立榮 專委 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1731.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1759.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
蕭立榮專委抱歉 退輔師陳韻竹科長國防部資源規劃師人力資源處呂振芳處長副處長謝明峰財政部負稅署所得稅主胡士賢副組長教育部人事處任明坤副處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1761.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1781.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
國民及學前教育署林淑敏副組長法務部汪南君參事經濟部產業發展署李淳孝主任秘書人事處吳靜瑜專門委員國營事業管理師林漢龍科長商業發展署翁靜婷組長 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1790.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1815.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
中小及新創企業署謝國中組長 農業部農民輔導師吳信儒檢安濟政漁業署葉敬雄副組長衛生福利部旅建德政務次長社會及家庭署周道軍署長國民健康署衛 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1818.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1840.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
婦幼健康組林玉璇組長長期照顧師徐雨婷科長有到嗎國家發展委員會社會發展處張富林處長人力發展處徐曉敏科長 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1842.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1860.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
金融監督管理委員會法律事務處林嘉倩專門委員行政院主計總處公務預算處陳淑萍專門委員行政院人事行政總處培訓考用處蔡佩龍專門委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1871.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1897.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
現在請提案委員說明提案要旨兩部法一起說明那每位委員兩分鐘因為本次會議審查法案的委員提案版本眾多我們要請提案說明的委員舉手在一舉手的順序逐一請委員上台那好 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1899.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
1921.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
然後大家也要跟委員做說明 跟委員說明因為今天下午呢本委員會有另外安排了勞動部的預算審查的議程為避免影響下午議程的進行所以請各位委員在發言時務必要遵守發言的時間否則等下我們再站起來就請你們就要停止了請大家體諒配合那我們就找李淑芬委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
1927.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
1944.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那我們就照原來這個順序好不好以防原來的提案順序好了否則會造成一些來請目前現在來請林淑芬委員說明有道歉 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
1950.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
1973.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
好 各位今天我提出了四項的修法分別設計了性供法 救保法那這個四案是要回應的是在勞工在失業初期育兒照顧還有親自駕鎖的支持以及流產後身心恢復現行制度仍然不足的地方第一個就是失業的起步期我們希望從14天的等待縮短為7天 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
1974.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
1985.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
第二個育兒的照顧不能只停在子女3歲以前我們希望可以延伸到8歲以前因為我們需要這個親職假父母並不是要長期離開職場而只是需要短時間可談性使用的照顧所以只有更談性的話才會讓這些年輕的父母更想婚育第三親職假不能只有假也要有津貼的支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2000.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2009.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
所以我們在修法裡面希望能夠將新增加的親子假的津貼按前六個月平均月頭保薪資的60%計算與育嬰留庭的津貼期間合併計算第四女性流產後依法停止工作也應該有明確的工資的保障所以我們希望認證未滿兩個 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2025.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2049.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
月留產者要給予5天的產價 而且應該保障他的工資的給付 謝謝抱歉 我以為兩分鐘到了 原來只是一分鐘喔海外都青菜 簡單講一下這樣我要兩分鐘還沒算 你看我以為兩分鐘啦 害我都沒有講 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2055.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2056.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
來請張家俊委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2065.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2088.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
主席各位同仁掃此話已經是台灣迫在眉睫的國安危機要有效鼓勵生育建構一個生育友善的職場環境絕對是重中之重那我身為兩個孩子的母親非常能夠理解這些雙薪家庭全職爸媽的這個心情那勞工把 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2088.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2104.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
孩子帶到公司附近托育上下班順便接送不管能夠不僅能夠就近照顧更能大幅減少通勤的負擔那全台灣根據勞動部最新的調查全台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2105.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2123.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
100人以上的事业单位设置托儿服务或提供托儿措施的比例已经达到了78.3%这显示出大多数的雇主其实都非常愿意营造友善育儿的职场 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2124.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2147.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
那本席要特別肯定勞動部的努力今年就是剛剛修正了辦法把這個每年的補助上限從50萬提高到100萬那這是非常正確的方向那為了打破一些推動職場托育的關鍵主力嘉峻早在去年就率先提出性別平等工作法徵定第23條之一的 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2150.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2166.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
這個條文草案我主張只要雇主依照規定設置托兒設施在扣除掉政府給予法定經費補助之後剩餘的實質支出金額都可以直接從每年度的盈利 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2167.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2194.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
營利事業所得稅中來進行扣除那我想行政院也提出了版本那目前這樣子是一個朝野高度共識勢在必行的正確道路那請各位同仁 委員同仁可以共同支持為我們辛苦的臺灣勞工拼出一個真正安心友善的育兒職場 謝謝各位接下來請洪孟楷委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2207.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2233.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
主席 各位立委同仁今天本席所提出兩個修法分別都是處理家庭照顧以及友善職場以及處理就業保險跟AI時代的技能賠利但其實這背後有一個共通的核心就是我們的勞動制度必須要跟得上台灣家庭的型態人口的結構以及產業環境的變化我想這也是我們共同在未還委員會希望能夠給予 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2235.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2249.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
所有的爸爸媽媽以及老公朋友更多的支持因此在性別平等法裡面我們提出來希望產假育兒停薪以及彈性工時還有家庭照顧假能夠更貼近真實生活的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2250.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2270.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
但制度要推動不能只是喊口號也不能把所有的成本都推給企業也因此這次修法同時設計中央補助機制讓僱主能夠申請給付可以向中央主管機關來申請補助另外就業保險法其實最重要就是要回應AI人工智慧快速發展下面的勞動市場變化 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2271.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2299.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
AI其實已經改變了非常多的產業的工作內容以及技能需求未來受影響的不只是基地低技術的工作行政、設計、分析、客服、製造都有可能因為AI的導入而重新分工也因此明確AI技能的賠利以及產學合作跟轉職的支持並且設定一定比例的經費專款專用我們希望透過這兩個修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2301.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2330.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
不是零散的增加价别也不是单纯的增加给付希望能够建立一套更完整的劳动安全网从生育育儿照顾到失业转职AI技能赔利都能够纳入国家政策的视野唯有让劳工敢生敢养顾得了家庭也跟得上产业的变化台湾的劳动市场才会更稳定家庭才会有韧性国家的竞争力也才能够真正的往前走感谢大家谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2331.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2334.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
主席各位同仁大家好今天我們要來進行性別工作平等法的修正還有就業保險法的修正這個是非常重要的里程碑因為我們知道現在少子化的問題非常的嚴重去年 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2358.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2380.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
整個出生的人數只達到10萬人今年可能連10萬人都沒有所以已經是國安危機政府必須投入更多的預算來解決少子化的問題所以建立友善的工作環境非常重要那今天本席的版本在性別工作平等法裡面有四個重點第一個就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2382.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2392.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
減食不減薪導入遠距工作那現在這個勞動部也開始推動那我希望把這個民營可以延長擴大到12歲而且取消中小企業的這個門檻讓政府提供代班人力營運補償打造政府企業跟勞工的三營 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2403.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2420.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
第二個我們要鬆綁僵化的制度新增彈性的輕職假雖然現在政府有所謂的育兒假但是只有到6歲我的主張是要到8歲以下連國小低年級的孩子都可以請到這樣的一個輕職假減輕家長的負擔第三呢我們現在的產價只有這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2428.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2433.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
8週目前勞動部只延長到12週但是國際勞工組織的標準是要到14週所以這個部分呢我也主張應該至少要到14週或是委員主張的16週那第4個是我們希望企業可以設置更多的拓設施所以呢我們主張要加大 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2449.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2452.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
加大這個免稅的誘因直接入法目前雖然勞動部有但是並沒有明文入法所以這一個部分這個是我的版本另外在救保法的部分本席跟國民黨黨團同時都主張最重要的是照顧不離職我們希望可以發放這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2469.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2483.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
家裡面有這個需要照顧的老人的照顧津貼那每個月最高補助一萬塊最長可以發給24個月的這個制度真正實現照顧不離職 敬請大家共同來支持 謝謝好 謝謝 下一位請黃婕委員說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2495.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2513.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
好謝謝主席各位同仁大家早這一次行政院推出的大禮包我是非常的支持那我自己的提案裡面也都有包含這些部分但是關於勞動權益這部分我還有覺得可以做得更好的地方所以在我的版本裡面還有兩個額外的重點第一個是我認為產檢價應該要延長 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2515.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2543.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
那我知道說院板是維持七天的設計並沒有調整可是其實在衛福部自己建議的產檢時程裡面有14次的例行產檢那再加上這些超音波這個潤成糖尿病篩檢羊毛穿刺等等其實實際就醫的次數是很容易超過20次的那所以以目前這個七天半天拆成最多14次其實就是最多打平然後也毫無疑慮的情況下 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2544.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2570.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
那所以我也认为这个如果产检假延长的话其实是对产妇来说是会更有余裕他们能够做更完整的产检那再加上7月这个诊所的周收日要上路那周末产检的空间就压缩所以平常请假的需求只会更高所以我的版本里面是把产检假延长到10天那如果以半天来拆的话是可以到20次那这个政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2571.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2600.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
也是应该要全额的支应让雇主是不需要有额外的负担那另外我也认为应该要有生产的准备假我知道说院版把这个赔产假延长到14天我觉得很好但是如果请假是由只有赔产假跟赔产检跟生产的当下其实范围是很狭窄的因为其实准父母在产前要做的准备不只是去医院还有很多包括生产的准备课程还有安排各种新生儿的照顾等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2600.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2630.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
这些都应该是产前的准备但是并没有在请假的范围内所以我在我的提案里面是把产检假赔产检假还有赔产假整合为一个生产的准备假那只要说是相关的其实都是相关的请假是由而且把配偶扩大为家属让未婚的伴侣还有同居人都可以申请不会让这个非婚家庭排除在外以上是我的版本也希望各位委员届时能够支持谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2631.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2657.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
好 謝謝 下一位請林月群召委進行提案說明好 今天審查性別平等工作法跟就業保險法核心不是單純的增加價別 而是要回應一個很現實的問題現在的家庭要一邊工作 一邊育兒 一邊照顧家人壓力已經不是個別家庭支撐就可以解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2658.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2670.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
第一性別聘等工作法的修正是要讓制度從育嬰走向真正的育兒孩子不是三歲以後就不需要照顧六歲以下的孩子呢生病停託停課 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2670.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2699.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
打疫苗父母常常只能請試駕應稱甚至被迫在工作跟孩子之間二者一所以這次修法呢將育嬰留停的停薪的調整為育兒留職停薪並增加育兒假讓父母在短期照顧的需求發生時有比較彈性的制度可以使用這也和提案中將試用年齡延長的設計一致第二就業保險法必須同步的配套假可以請 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2699.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2727.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
但沒有經濟的支持很多家庭還是請不起所以救保法的配合性平法把育嬰留停的薪資的停薪的津貼改為育兒留職停薪的那個津貼並調整勤領的模式條件讓制度更明確讓請假的權利跟保險的給付都能夠銜接提案也增訂了就業保險的投保薪資的分級表目的是要讓給付基礎更貼近勞工的 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2730.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2755.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
一個實際需求所以我要特別強調少子化不是靠口號來解決真正要支持父母就是讓他們在孩子需要照顧時不會因此失去工作也不會因為過度承擔經濟壓力也不會讓照顧的責任永遠落在母親身上所以因此懇請各位委員支持這次修法能夠往更友善育兒更支持家庭更促進性別平等的方向前進謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2757.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2760.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
謝謝,下一位請邱惠如委員代表民眾黨團說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2767.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2788.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
主席還有各位同仁大家好那我想呢 少子化已經是一個國安問題了那過去2018年到2025年政府編列了5931億的預算在挽救少子化的問題但是錢越花越多 但是新生兒卻越生越少那我想最主要的原因是因為錢沒有花在刀口上 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2789.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2815.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
那什麼叫做花在倒口上就是看見父母的需求除了給錢緩解父母的經濟困頓也要給假跟不見托兒的措施所以我們台灣民眾黨看到父母的需求我們提出了修法版本首先第一我們把產價從現行的8週提升到10週那除此之外留產價由現行的假日也提升一倍的假日給母親除此之外我們呢也看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2816.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2837.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
生產準備價的需要性所以我們有賦予父親一個陪生產準備價讓父親能夠參與生產然後凝聚家庭的凝聚力進而提升父親的一個這個參與能力那再來留職停薪的部分我們把父母在3歲之前可以申請留職停薪假 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2838.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2847.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
育兒兒童的年齡從3歲提升到6歲那也因此把名字改成育兒津貼而不是只有育嬰津貼那可以請假的這個年份的日數呢從2年提升到3年那除此之外我們也創設了一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2856.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2869.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
親子假跟親子教育假親子假是父母在兒童8歲之前可以勤領那可以以小時跟以日為單位彈性運用這些日數然後進而因應疫情還有流感還有天災的需求那親子假也把它創建出來讓父母能夠參與兒童的這個學校教育活動避免錯失他們的童年那除此之外呢家庭照顧假呢我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2884.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2908.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
主張把家庭照顧假從市價獨立出來由7天提升為14天那除此之外再10秒除此之外我們也鼓勵雇主他去佈建這些措施所花費的經費扣除政府的補助之後可以從盈利事業所得稅扣除我想我們這些措施都是看到父母的需求給錢給假給 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2910.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2918.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
育兒的措施 希望少子化的問題能夠在不久的將來看到曙光 謝謝好 接下來請林倩琦委員說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2931.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2952.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
主席福惠同仁還有所有媒體朋友跟所有的夥伴大家好那麼在針對今天這個性平工作法本席這邊提出來第19條以及增訂了第23條之一那整個目的最主要是在強化育兒家庭的支持措施還有協助受僱者來兼顧工作與家庭照顧的這個責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2953.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2971.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
那麼最主要是要營造更友善的一個職場環境並回應我國少子化日益嚴峻的挑戰那麼近年呢整個我們整個國家在推動0到6歲國家一起養的政策而現行的這個性別平等工作法的第19條 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
2972.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
2990.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
雖然賦予受僱者為撫養未滿三歲的子女可以請求減少或者是調整工作時間但是減少工作時間不得請求報償那麼實務上許多家長也因為擔心收入減少也不敢申請那麼整個製作的成效也因此而大打折扣 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
2991.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3008.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
考量我們目前3歲到6歲的幼兒雖然已經進入了幼兒園但接受時間 疾病照護跟臨時照顧需要男人跟一般工作時間會存在一些落差因此本案是將適用對象由未滿3歲來擴大至未滿6歲的子女並將減少工作時間所減少之薪資改由主管機關來補貼 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3016.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3046.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
那么减轻受雇者在育儿期间的经济负担使整个制度能够真正被使用那么此外随着远距工作制度的这个成熟那么整个疫情期间我们也证明了许多工作形态具有这个远距的可行性然后现行的法治也没有提供育儿家庭相关的这个保障因此本案在这边也增订了23条之一来明定受雇者在100人以上的事业单位的受雇者 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3046.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3069.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
在撫養未滿三歲子女期間可以向僱主來請求遠距工作那如果僱主認為工作性質不適合遠距辦理也應以書面方面來具體說明不得因此而影響考積、全勤獎金或其他不利之處分那麼以上的這個說明請各位委員來支持感謝 謝謝好 接下來請牛喜婷委員說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3080.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3105.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
謝謝主席今天我們討論性別工作平等法及就業保險法的修法這我想我國面對嚴峻的少子女化國安危機生育率的探底已經是必須要朝以共同面對的重大議題那麼雙薪家庭現在是社會的主流而年輕的父母往往面對工作跟育兒蠟燭兩頭燒的困境它不是只是收入跟經濟地位的問題而是時間跟生活品質的極度匱乏 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3106.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3127.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
因此在制度上面做相關的修正我想非常有必要這個本席在113年11月15號這個任期剛開始其實就已經提了性命工作平等法第20條修正案這是將這個所謂現行的家庭照顧價這個淪為違德不足的問題要予以解決因為現在要併入市價計算 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3128.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3150.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
看得到吃不到那另外加上比如說最近這個長病毒高峰等等這樣的一個狀況常常都會讓這樣子的一個假期一下就用完了或者是流於形式這我想有修正的必要所以本席提案草案是把它改成幼兒照顧假並且天數跟市價完全脫鉤第二這個請假彈性化可以以小食為單位來做請假 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3151.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3170.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
符合年輕家長跟育兒的實際需求那第三是把政府補貼的部分這明確的入法這個東西當然希望不要造成這個企業太大一個衝擊政府既然要解決少子女化的國安危機就應該投入資源負起責任那麼最近我們也在提了新民法15、16、19、19之一條的修正案延長產價跟賠產價至14週對其 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3176.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3201.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
國際勞工組織的保護標準將育嬰留職停薪的適用年齡從未滿三歲放寬到未滿六歲並且友善彈性工時並且薪資造給可以讓僱主向中央申請全額補助當然在職務代理的部分我想職務代理協助的部分也可以申請補助這樣子我想可以減輕法案修正造成的一定衝擊就業保險法的部分我們主要的重點放在育嬰留庭的津貼加碼入法 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3202.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3219.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
把這個命令加發20%的補助的這樣子的一個行政命令改成法規的機制讓他的穩定性更加的加長發起期限也由6個月延長到9個月針對弱勢家庭則是百分之百全新發起這我想針對不同族群不同社經地位 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3220.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3238.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
與合理的照顧跟支持才能有效的讓大家共同面對少子女化的危機這我想是重大的民生法案提案委員也非常非常眾多希望審查過程可以順利盡快朝野共同努力讓這樣子的一個好的法案能夠盡速的三讀通過以上謝謝好 接下來請王宏威委員說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3243.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3253.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
好 謝謝主席我想我們現在面臨的一方面是少子女化另外一方面就是我們已經完全進入一個超高齡的社會所以就是說我們如果從兒童的福祉角度來說其實現在的家庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3259.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3276.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
照顧幼兒的其實不只是父母而已其實很多都是來自於主父母所以怎麼樣去打造一個友善育兒的環境變得非常重要所以在這邊跟大家報告我提出來的是對於我們的性 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3277.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3293.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
性别平等工作法第16条条文的修正也就是说如果是主父母一些很多的主父母其实他们仍然是受雇者那他要照顾有育婴还有照顾这个这个孙儿育孙 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3294.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3309.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
的部分也可以得以享受到育孙假的一个待遇所以在孙子女满三岁之前受雇者还是可以申请育婴留职停薪另外 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3309.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3333.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
那大家也知道從今年3月1號開始台北市是率全國之先讓家中有12歲以下孩子勞工只要在企業不減薪的狀況之下他可以減食工作然後呢這個工資由市府來做補貼那勞動部當然也有從善如流也提出來的一個相對的措施那我們希望這一項的這個優惠 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3335.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3359.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
能夠匯集到全國而不是單單只有台北市或少數的縣市所以也提出我們的性別平等工作法第19條條文的修正只要勞工有未滿3歲的子女可以擴大到未滿12歲子女他減少工作的時間的薪資可以由主管機關來做補貼就如同台北市政府一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3360.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3383.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
那另外我想很多我們的同仁不分黨派同仁也都提出來就是就業保險法的一個修正提高育嬰留職停薪從現在的60%提高到80%以上跟大會報告 謝謝接下來請謝一鳳委員說明抱歉 接下來請王振旭委員說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3393.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3419.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
好 謝謝主席 主席戈爾文同仁 大家好 以下就本席的新公法舊保法修正草案進行合併提案說明現行條文規定受僱者申請育嬰留職停薪僅限於子女滿三歲前行使然而小朋友在三歲到六歲之間正值進入幼兒園及銜接國民小學的重要階段常面臨群體生活的適應 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3421.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3442.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
疾病的好發以及心理醫護需求等挑戰家長擁有高度親自照顧的實際需求考量現代家庭育兒型態多元為了強化權力行使的彈性本席提案修正性供法救保法將育兒留職停薪和縮減工資規定的適用年齡由子女滿3歲前擴大到滿6歲之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3446.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3461.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
讓受僱者能夠依照子女不同的成長階段的實際需求來做彈性的配置不再受限於三歲之前的一個硬性的門檻以建構更具彈性的友善職場環境請各位委員共同支持 謝謝接下來請徐玉珍委員說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3477.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3502.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
主席各位同仁大家好本席這次提出的就業保險法第十一條條文修正草案核心的精神就是將現行的育嬰留職停薪在子女滿三歲前的申請的限制放寬至子女滿六歲前讓國家的制度真正能夠跟上父母育兒的現實台灣少子化已經不是未來的隱憂而是現在進行的國安危機 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3503.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3521.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
這幾天賴清德總統提到台灣人口對策新戰略的18項的措施從補助、托育、教育到友善職場都必須承認一件事情養育孩子不能只靠家庭獨自承擔國家社會跟企業都必須一起分擔即使 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3522.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3537.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
既然執政黨也承認問題嚴重立法院就應該把這個具體草案能夠立即推行的這個改革盡快的往前推進現在許多年輕父母想生不是不想生而是不敢生 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3538.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3554.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
因為怕生了之後呢 薪水追不上托育費工作保不住 生活也撐不住惠福部的調查指出托育費用必須控制在家庭所得15%以下家長才比較有勇氣能夠生養第二胎托育費用 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3555.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3581.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
送給保姆呢不管是送託保姆或托育機構的費用遠遠都高於15%更嚴重的是公共托育的資源仍然不足所以全國公司裡的托育機構比例約為1比4許多父母排不到公托只能承擔高額的撕托費用承擔不起的就只能犧牲其中一方的職來回家照顧孩子而且最常被迫退出職場的往往又是女性這已經不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3582.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3607.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
是育兒的問題也是性別平等的問題更是勞動力流失的問題因此本席主張育兒留職新天一不應該只停留在三歲以前孩子三歲以後到入學前仍然需要陪伴仍需要接送跟照顧所以本席懇請同仁支持本案讓育嬰留職停薪的津貼放寬子女滿六歲前真正減輕父母的 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3608.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3614.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
負擔讓我們的臺灣家庭的每一個孩子都能夠在國家更堅實的支持中長大 謝謝接下來請謝鳳委員說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3625.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3641.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
好 未完委員會大家好喔本席今天的提案是因為少子化以及高齡社會的問題那希望來優化產婦的以及家庭照護者的職場環境喔那就性別法第15條的條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3643.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3658.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
我的提案說明如下根據OECD的資料統計OECD的成員國有薪的產假平均的長度已經高達18.5週而我國現行的性別平等法所規定的8週那明顯有 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3659.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3660.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
以及为了减轻雇主营运负担 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3688.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3704.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
針對延長資產價期間得由勞工向中央主管機關申請相關的給付及補助喔那就救保法的第10條11條19條的提案說明有如下喔就是根據衛福部的統計我國 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3705.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3731.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
全国失能者失智者跟身心障碍者的长照需求已经将近了90万那估计全国的家庭照护者也高达了130万随着高龄化跟家庭结构小型化老老照顾与零家庭照顾者时代已经逼近那所以家庭照顾者关怀学会指出有四成需求高度仰赖家庭独立苦撑 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3732.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3755.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
許多職場照顧者面對家人失能的時候陷入辭職照顧的困境那為了避免這樣子要落實的話我們就提出了照顧留職停薪津貼給予有需求的照顧家庭照顧者30天六成薪的津貼補助再給予照顧者在家人面對重大轉折的邊框馬亂時期有足夠的經濟緩衝跟時間進行長照規劃跟支援連結 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3761.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3764.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
以上謝謝好接下來請張雅玲委員說明謝謝好那我的部分呢基本上就是說我想大家最近可以看到我們的對於家庭的照顧呢從過去的單一形式的補助到現在是從家庭整體來支持的方向來做思考所以在過去呢我們可能都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3789.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3806.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
比較沒有辦法讓男性的角色來參與那現在這整個方案上面我們也強化了許多的功能許多的價別讓爸爸媽媽都家長們都可以一起來參與一起來準備一起來照顧那我自己的版本呢其實希望淵源流亭這個把它改成到年齡提供到12歲 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3808.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3826.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
最主要是因为说我们现在可能很多的孩子在六岁之前他们可能会因为有肠病毒或是流感的部分幼儿园会停课但是事实上在小学的部分小孩子也还是会有流感或是肠病毒的时候需要家庭照顾像我自己呢前天才去接了小孩学校接了小孩因为小孩生病发烧了 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3827.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3848.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
所以我是希望說在12歲以前其實都蠻需要家長照顧陪伴的狀況之下是不是可以把月額留停來提高到12歲那第二個部分呢就是在這個產價跟賠產價的部分我把它擴大成為生產準備價最重要的一個概念就是說還是回應到因為既然我們這一次就是希望整體走到家庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3849.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3865.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
一起来准备一起来参与一起来照顾的话那我们是不是也可以让过去比较功能性的产价赔产价走到也是用支持的方式来去变成是生产准备价因为从国际的意义相关的研究就是如果父母的准备度越高 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3866.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3882.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
那這樣子對於後續去適應新生兒進入家庭的準備度也適應度也會比較高而是從國際的一些相關研究我們也可以看到方向是往這個方向發展的可是從生動盲的研究裡面我們現在62%的產婦從來沒有接受過產前教育 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3886.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3904.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
那69%的伴侶也沒有參加過產前教育可是呢其實產前教育對於家長來說非常的重要因為他是學習如何哺乳如何照顧一個新生兒還有家庭照顧安排的部分所以是希望在這次的版本上面生產準備價可以得到大家的支持 謝謝好 接下來請我們的勞動部洪部長並按說明時間15分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3923.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3936.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
主席各位委員各位記者朋友謝謝貴委員會邀請本人針對剛剛委員們提出來的新公法相關的修正總計一百案的這個進行報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3940.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
3961.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
争就一下委员所提的一些意见说明本部的意见那首先有关委员提案延长产假周数修订赔产赔单减及赔产假的天数以及延长孕留停子女年龄增订亲子假增订雇主办理托儿设施或措施之租税减免等部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
3962.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
3985.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
那一下做說明面對少數人化的挑戰希望在孕產養兒育女友善職場的方面提供支持本部已經提出性供法的這個條文修正草案並經過行政院在115年5月28號函請大院審議草案修正重點是延長延長產假期間為12週增加的是星期增加的四個星期的產假 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
3986.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4011.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
恢復健康的受雇者可以依照意願提前申請銷價針對雇主依勞基法第50條第2項所增加因己負之產價天數及認成未滿三個月留產產價之薪資由政府負擔另外放寬配偶的賠產檢及賠產價由7天增加一倍修正為14日以鼓勵共同育兒本次延長育嬰留庭子女薪 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4013.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4034.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
运营留停薪资子女年龄至6岁期间至该子女满7岁为止并修正名称为育儿留职停薪全面照顾学龄前儿童另外也将现行以日为单位的30日谈薪运留停调整为受雇 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4035 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4052.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
者有6歲以下子女因生病停託停課預防接種疫苗或其他是有需有親自照顧者可以申請月價共60日月加之日數及津貼之請領並入月流停月流值停薪期間及 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4054.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4080.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
津貼計算僱主提供托兒設施或措施者得就該支出金額200%限度內自其支出當年度所得額中減除透過獎勵租稅減免的方式來提升僱主辦理托育服務之意願那這部分是與委員提案的方向相符那本部是競表支持那針對委員提案有關於提高產檢價天數 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4083.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4098.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
那包括赔产检及赔产价更名为生产准备价放宽照顾孙子你可以申请运营留职停薪增订抚育未满三岁子女得向雇主请求远去工作增订长期照顾价或留职停薪 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4099.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4122.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
针对求职者遭受性别及性形象差别对待增订申诉与违法公布还有生理假未逾六日不并入并假并发给全新的部分因部分提案与现行机制或修法草案已有处理和替代或涉及到中高龄就业职涯的发展部分行业较难执行 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4123.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4146.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
所以我們認為需要審慎另外在延長育兒減少工時子女典禮及補貼或照給薪資部分將於政策執行一定期間評估企業與勞工執行的狀況那再來我們再請討論但我們會先用一個獎勵的計劃來執行那相關的意見請委員詳盡書面報告謝謝那針對就業保險的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4151.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4163.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
那以下說明首先有關委員提案舊保託保薪資分級表與勞工保險脫鉤以及延長孕留庭子女年齡至滿5歲或6歲前以及雙親臨滿6個月薪資給付期間可再延長的部分那為因應 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4172.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4186.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
国内少子化的挑战来建构安心怀孕友善生养的环境本部已经提出救保法条文修正草案并经行政院115年5月28日函请大院审议 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4187.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4207.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
那草案修正重点为增订就业保险投保薪资分级表进而提高急剧上限以提升劳工留停期间的实质薪资替代率并配合性工法的修法将育婴留停今天适用子女年龄延长至6岁以下 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4208.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4232.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
到未滿7歲前期間至該子女滿7歲並修正名稱為育兒留職停薪津貼令在給付期間也增訂雙親領滿6個月育兒留停津貼時得在勤領3個月最長可領9個月的津貼規定以鼓勵雙親共同育兒強化經濟支持與委員提案相符本部競表支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4233.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4255.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
那有關委員提案包括刪除就保就保險65歲以上加保年齡上限失業給付等待期由14日縮短為7日也提高就業保險第12條促進就業經費提撥率部分那有助於保障65歲以上的繼續工作且尚未領取 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4256.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4280.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
老保老年給付非自願離職一定期間之基本生活保障縮短失業被保險人領取到失業給付之期間以及讓本部可以因應未來國際經濟情勢及勞動市場變動事實調整現有或新增機制運用就保法第12條促進就業經費提供各項多元的 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4281.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4307.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
促進就業措施協助被保險人提升就業技能穩定就業委員的提案本部競表支持另外委員提案增訂爭議審議結果視同溯源決定的規定縮短民眾提起行政訴訟等待時間增列被保險人因災保法第85條第二款第三款第四款情勢之一定離職者為非自願離職室友 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4308.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4329.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
另外還有包括為辦理救保業務的定得洽請相關機構提供資料及系統連結依據針對違反救保法的投保單位徵定名譽處分等相關規定本部亦竟表支持那針對委員提案有關提高暈流停 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4330.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4346.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
津貼及幾付標準延長幾付時間雙親可共享津貼也包括兩層育嬰留職庭薪補助入法以及針對特定對象以及公務預算加給津貼照顧孫子女可勤領育嬰留庭津貼 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4347.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4372.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
保险效力自到职日起算针对特定对象延长失业给付时间放宽提早就业奖助津贴的保险年资条件减少提供求职记录次数等将还有包括将民法亲属纳入失业给付及职训生活津贴眷属加发范围新增轻职假津贴轻职教育假津贴 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4373.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4390.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
家庭照顾价津贴照顾津贴照顾留庭津贴因部分提案与现行机制或修法草案已可处理或替代或涉及就保就业保险积极促进就业的立法意识 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4391.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4416.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
有差異影響勞工求職意願及職業發展制度公平性加重救保財務及政府負擔的面向我們認為需要審慎那相關意見請委員參詳書面報告以上進行指教謝謝好謝謝洪部長說明現在開始詢答做以下宣告一有關本次會議各項書面資料均列入紀錄刊登公報二本會委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4417.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4446.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
訊答時間6加2分鐘 列席委員4加1分鐘 三10點半截止發言登記 四 委員如果有書面質詢 請於上會前提出 預計不受理 五 暫定10點半休息10分鐘 六 詢議本日不處理臨時提案 現在請登記第一位 丁瑞群召委進行訊答主席麻煩我們的洪部長有請洪部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4452.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4478.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
疫情委員早部長早部長我覺得為了少子化的一個衝擊總統上週宣布了推動18項政策打造公共支持的育兒體系我認為這個事實上是所有的育兒家庭都非常需要的可是實際上如何支持家庭讓家長能享受得到才是我今天要跟部長談的部長這次部分委員提出來我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4479.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4501.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
信工法第19條修正案表面上是參考了台北市的育兒減工時可是但本質上差非常的多台北市是事辦自願參與有補助上限跟預算的控管可是現在有些版本卻是直接全國法治化甚至改由政府貼補我們減工時的一個薪資這已經不是事辦了而是新的法定的一個給付 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4501.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4517.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
制度而且各版本差異非常的大有的放寬到12歲有的納入孫子女甚至還有家庭照顧者也納入那甚至取消呢企業規模的一個限制這些都是大幅增加財政跟行政成本所以想問部長說勞動部有沒有針對這個版本去做過預算的推估以及這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4522.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4533.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
法案的影響評估因為如果父母跟祖父母都能夠申請那同一個家庭的上限怎麼設那誰來查核怎麼避免重複請領部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4535.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4560.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
跟委員說明那當然現在彈性減工時的政策我想各界都很關注那在這一次我想行政院提出來的方案裡面其中有一項那我們也會來推動彈性減工時的一個獎勵的計畫那在目前其實勞工部跟行政院提出來的計畫裡面我們會把彈性減工時的這個子女的年齡也是拉到12歲 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4562.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4580.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
那但是很重要的前提是這個這個減工時的計劃其實是需要雇主來同意的也就是但是他的這個減少那一小時的工資是由政府來全額補貼可是是要由雇主來同意那這是因為其實各行業的工作安排的方式說實話差異很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4582.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4606.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
必須說真的有一些行業它其實真的不太容易直接來實施縮減工時的政策那如果變成勞工申請就必須要強制執行的話可能的確會造成很多企業上面的混亂那如果我們來看新公法19條條文的內容的話你就可以看出這個新公法19條條文內容它其實是一個強制性的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4607.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4633.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
所以在這個強制性的規定下如果要把全國所有的企業都一概而論的時候我們擔心他會忽視掉各個企業各個行業在工作安排上面的差異所以我們是希望能夠先用獎勵的方式來進行那我們會來補助那個小時的全額工資也包括這個值貸會加給津貼我們這都可以來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4635.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4655.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
也就是說政府的角色我們的工作是來降低雇主同意的門檻但現在我們這此時此刻恐怕還不適合是雇主強制性的接受那是各位請勞動部兩周內去針對這個各版本也還是要去提出來可能可行性的影響評估然後它預算規模才能夠去說服大家是要怎麼去執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4657.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4681.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
那第二個就是 部長相較於產價跟育嬰留庭的這種價比較長的價 企業當然還有機會找替代人力可是賠產價 育兒價 彈性工時的這種短期臨時的需求工作往往就會直接轉嫁到其他同仁的身上所以勞動部這次提出來的職務代理津貼方向是對的可是我要問部長是說 這個每天800元是全發給職務代理的勞工嗎勞工怎麼拿得到 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4683.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4702.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
勞動部會不會有清楚的指引確保我們今天真的拿到勞工手上如果僱主沒有發 少發或挪作他用的話有沒有查核跟我們的處理機制那我當然要追問有時候不是一個人代理搞不好是分散到很多人代理的話那今天是不是可以按比例分給不同的同事還是只能指定一個人的職務代理來領 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4704.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4727.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
是跟委員補充說明我們這個津貼其實就是要希望是雇主要真的付給了值貸那個同事那薪資單上面要有明確的值貸津貼這樣一個薪資名目那我們才會發給補貼到雇主的身上那現在的設計上面不會限只限一名的值貸我們會有一定人數的上限所以有彈性是是是 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4727.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4737.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
是好那下一個我要問的是部長這次的規規劃育兒減工時不減薪並搭配租代理的津貼跟新聘替代人力 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4737.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4758.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
的補助我一樣同樣非常支持這樣的方向可是要請教是政策不能只看補助金額還要看職場能不能真的執行現在依據我們的企業規模新聘的替代人力有2萬元的招募訓練補助請問部長這種替代人力的運用勞動部有沒有針對不同產業不同職類進行過可行性的盤點 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4759.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4785.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
根文說明其實我們有跟企業界討論過因為的確如果遇到比較長時間的請休比方說像產駕因為產駕勞工期產駕請休或者是暈流停的請休他比較不容易是靠這個同事長期的來指代的狀況所以可能就會需要有臨時的這個替代能力或者是他是可能他是一個這個定期契約的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4786.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4800.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
那企業是跟我們說他們其實願意來聘新聘的替代人力但是每個新聘替代人力可能都還是會有一定的訓練上手的時間所以我們這次的補助其實就是補助企業要去新聘人力前面的這個訓練上面的成本 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4801.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4815.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
那針對不同的行業當然會有不同的人才需求那這部分我想我們願意來跟很多各目的世界主管機關來去做討論比方說也許會有一些是幼保的人員也許有一些是比較是商業的這個這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4818.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4832.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
銷售的人員有些也許是不懂他可能會有不同的狀況但是的確他的樣態會蠻多的可能要跟目的世界主管機關來討論但據我知道的確現在是有一些企業目前也在做這樣的準備也讓他的人才擴的破可以讓他更彈性 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4833.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4851.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
那我先請教育部學前教育署副署長林淑敏我要問的是什麼呢也就是說今天你們自己的報告都有寫說我因為要針對於因為教育現場事實上是特殊性應該要去考量學生的受教權那政府的 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4853.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4879.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
有沒有現在你目前已經也自己講說要去針對各場域不同身份人員適用的橫平性為什麼學前教授因為幼兒園我們過去在做不當對待的調查的時候最常發現是老教師幾乎沒辦法請假過度負擔還要去肩負其他請假人的工作可是幼教現場事實上是一個裸播一個坑那你們現在是說建請要去審慎評估那不是你們要去評估嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4881.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4888.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
接下來你們會去做評估嗎應該不是勞動部評估是你們要評估不是嗎是我們這個會再一起做一些討論跟評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4890.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4919.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
好 那來我們的呂次長一樣的 就是教育部還有寫說要評估可是好像我沒有看到你們要評估 為什麼你們還有托嬰中心那如果托嬰中心幾乎都是女性在擔負如果她一旦請假的話 你怎麼去做完全沒有看到 你們只是講說我可以去考慮 甚至你們還有社工社工還有個案對於社工的信任度如果一旦這樣子的一個有人來做代理的時候那你們怎麼去處理這部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4921.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4922.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
OK我是不是請那個書長來請 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4926.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
4953.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
跟委員報告那托嬰中心現在在設置的規定上面除了設置標準要求的基本的人力之外那在規定上是有要求托嬰中心要備有相對應的備用的人力和後備的人力所以一旦如果是他的工作人力有因為這個請假等等的部分來處理的話會有而且第二點是因為市長我先打算你為什麼因為公立的我相信都沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
4954.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
4967.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
他有護士有主任甚至有一個行政人力現在搭配是這樣私立的是完全沒有如果一百個嬰兒的那他要搭配的老師大概二三十個那你這樣子的請假你怎麼去應對因為你的 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
4970.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
4990.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
即便是兒托法也沒有要求事實上現場的托嬰中心事實上是要去有餘育的人力幼兒園同時私立幼兒園也是同樣的問題這個園長如果五個老師假設請假的時候那你怎麼去搭配這些人力所以包含非營利幼兒園的確非營利幼兒園有兩個行政人力那要看規模九十個人以上才有 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
4990.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5015.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
那這樣的一個我覺得你兩部都要去盤點以外我也建起也就是勞動部應該要去針對針對產業要有替代人力的協助平台同樣教育部跟衛福部也要有因為你畢竟托嬰中心跟幼兒園都是照顧比較年幼的孩子我們不希望老師在過度負擔之後可能有情緒上的一個壓迫感 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5016.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5035.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
可能也會擔心事實上是對孩子有一些不利所以請兩部會去配合我們的勞動部我想我們會來跟幾個目的社會主管機關尤其是教育部跟衛福部來討論就是請大家在這個人力的破上面有沒有一個更彈性可以調度的設置的這樣的準備的空間再麻煩那請他兩部先請回 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5037.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5066.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
部長除了少子化以外我覺得我們也面臨高齡化的挑戰我們今天就討論在育兒可是事實上我之前就一直在跟部長這邊也質詢過也就是能不能像日本的介護那個政策一樣六成的有薪安排假他不是每一年都要給只是要有這樣的一個所謂的長照的安排假那部長目前我上次講說三個月要提出事辦計畫目前現在進度是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5067.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5082.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
長照3.0上路了半年需求評估出來了嗎如果出來的話目前規劃是不見得一定要30天可是一定要給為什麼因為也不是每一年要給是因為如果是被評估他已經要進入到長照體系的時候他需要這個長照安排價 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5083.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5097.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
跟委員說明的確這部分說實話我們還是要跟衛福部來討論在長照上面的需求情境那這部分我們還是正在跟衛福部討論那只剩一個月的時間就麻煩 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5098.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5120.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
那個部長可能要進化還是在必須要去確認因為尤其現在想到3.0就我知道啦他也是陸續的部分上路啦那在這陸續部分上路的情況下面未來他到底整體的需求情形假設說有所謂的空窗那空窗的樣態跟長短是什麼樣子這部分真的還是會需要重複 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5120.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5148.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
當然部長一個月內要趕快交了因為只剩下一個月的時間最後就是我們勞動部的那個桃竹苗的分屬公告苗栗就業中心的北苗台因建物的老舊漏水已經暫停服務了民眾要改到苗栗就業中心勞動部說法是說新舊站距離只有兩公里而那北苗台本來就是小型據點服務績效也不好勞動部回應說每個月才五個人次那我要追問的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5149.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5168.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
到底是績效不好還是苗栗市沒有就業服務需求還是勞動部的服務設計沒有把人找出來因為我認為苗栗市不是沒有需求苗栗市65歲以上的人口已經佔了兩成了那這代表中高齡就業跟婦女重返職場長照的照顧能力弱勢家庭的就業支持這都不是抽象問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5168.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5186.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
所以請部長具體說明兩件事情如果現在沒辦法立刻說明的話就請勞動部一個月內給我報告第一北苗台過去三年的每年的服務人次求職的登記數跟推介的就業數跟成功媒合率是多少和苗栗就業中心的 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5187.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5208.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
相比的話差多少第二勞動部有沒有分析過績效不好的原因是民眾沒有需求宣導不足還是交通不便服務時間不適合還是服務項目不符合中高齡跟弱勢求職者的需求如果長期服務人士低落為什麼沒有提早處理好那麼建立一套那個服務可敬性的評估標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5208.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5225.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
假設服務據點的品質跟服務的天數不是那麼完整或是一直沒有民眾來是不是應該定期檢討並提出具體的改善措施是委員好那我想主要應用考量北苗的就業服務台因為他的功能定位是在辦理檢疫的 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5226.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5253.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
求財求職的這個業務他不是在提供失業給付認定那也不是在做職業來諮詢那因為他的距離呢離那個苗栗的就業中心只有兩公里也就是說車程只有五分鐘所以民眾會很自然去選擇苗栗中心去辦理業務那每個禮拜呢有兩天提供服務每個月的服務人是因為低於五人所以我們認為實在是效益不是很佳那目前我們已經有先暫停營運那剛剛委員所說的後續我們對於這個設點的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5256.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5275.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
我們可能需要有更科學署長我不是反對據點診病可是不能用距離兩公里跟績效不好作為理由那個績效不好所以我剛剛跟你講說我為你提出這兩點請你提供報告就是你如果用這樣的績效不好到底是沒有貼切到他們的服務需求嗎那個委員這樣子好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5276.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5299.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
我認為今天針對這個區域包括整體的需求狀況我覺得可能不是看一個單點整體的需求狀況跟服務資源如何整合能夠更有效這部分給我們一個月的時間那我們來去再做一個評估然後我直接請同仁去跟委員辦公室說明好 謝謝部長 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5301.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5305.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
主席謝謝各位委員還有官員的出席 我想請勞動部部長有請黃部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5326.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5344.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
好好謝謝部長部長你們的這一位李伯昌法人重建中心執行長我先講一下他的時序他之前被人家檢舉博士論文抄襲他人的碩士論文並且在網路上有非常多的這個比較是高度重疊所以他4月30 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5346.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5360.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
的時候其實已經知道他被調查中那他5月13被媒體披露說他抄別人的碩士論文但是他4月30呢自己知道自己正在被調查中的時候用密件生了13個人的官 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5362.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5384.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
5月18學校就發布調查的結果很難看學校是直接在學校的網站上面寫說註銷他106取得的博士學位那他5月23就離職了所以這個速度很快他知道自己被調查4月30的時候他升了13個人的官5月13媒體爆出來他抄論文5月18學校調查結果出爐註銷他的這個博士學位5月23他離職 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5391.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5400.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
那我前幾天看其實你們網站還是他這幾天這兩三天偷偷換掉變成代理執行長是一位職業醫學的醫師你們連發新聞稿都不敢偷偷在網站上換掉我這邊有兩個事情想問你啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5406.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5423.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
因為他這樣等於是欺騙國家嘛他欺騙的不是只有學校他因為他的博士學位他可能升遷比較容易領到佳績領到獎金領到研究補助這些請問你的懲處要怎麼做你不能讓他的辭職變成切斷責任的防火牆啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5425.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5451.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
跟委員說明齁其實因為李前執行長其實在去年當然他到這個法人任職的時候他其實就有說他其實希望他在法人就是工作一年的時間他其實去年那到今年過年後2月過年後我先跟你說他提早離職對他本來說他做一年可是他5月23走了他提早走了他去年不是5月上任啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5453.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5473.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
他可以做到五月底啊他確定五月上任那我要說的事情是他第一個他其實在今年的過年前那再一次的有來跟法人的董事長表達他其實一年快到他其實希望一年後可以就一年到任的時候可以離職所以其實他原本就預計在法人 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5473.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5499.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
沒有你都沒有回答到我的問題我的問題是他因為博士學位所擁有的這些東西你們有沒有要把它依法追討回來並且調查當然如果因為博士學位而有的這部分我們會來相關的我們會來跟人事單位來討論所以你會發公文我什麼時候會看到你發公文給人事單位公文對還是你要自己開始啟動調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5500.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5528.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
就是我們當然會我們可以來處理但是我的意思是說如果有因為他是因為基於是博士學位的部分我們可以來處理但是我當時我們當時請他來法人的原因其實並不是因為他是博士是因為他原本就擔任過治安署的副署長然後也擔任過研究所的我的重點是你有沒有要追討回勞動部因為他的職務所延伸出來的我們會依法依規該追討的我們會追討 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5529.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5548.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
好那多久以內我們可以有調查報告還是你需要調查蠻久的時間三個月那第二個當然就是比較奇怪的地方我也想問啦如果你自己都知道你自己已經在被調查你的公信力有問題的時候這個時候可以發公文密件生十三個人的官嗎這是第一個問題第二個問題勞動部有發生潛力嗎有人在離職以前生十三個人的官這麼多嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5557.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5583.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
跟人說沒有第一個其實這些這些人這些人事的缺額的部分主要是在從去年的12月12號因為組織的編制調整以後會有的地圖的需求那我們其實是考量同仁的這個士氣所以是盡量是用內部升遷的方式來去處理那至於現在講到密件的部分其實本來人事相關的公文本來因為涉及到個資 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5584.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5608.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
個人資料的保護這個新聞稿都有包括也包括相關的法令及一般行政的實務向來都是用密件處理這個新聞稿都有我的意思是說他這個人公信力已經在被調查的時候了他是不是還擁有去評斷他的下面的人有沒有可以升遷的能力資格到任日期等等他是不是還擁有這樣子的權利呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5611.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5626.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
跟我們說明其實法人現在的這個相關的人事的處理其實都是主要是看在看包括專業能力包括工作經歷去做相關的評估的所以你的意思是說就算他公信力蕩然無存的時候你們也覺得他評斷的這13個人是OK的是應該要被 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5629.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5644.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
我們第一個我們是尊重我們當然尊重學校相關做的這些專業在學倫上面的調查但是在當時他確實還是執行長我們基本上在人事的處理上面就是依法依規來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5646.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5669.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
就是依法依規來處理好那我希望你把這些東西也放到你那個三個月調查到高委員是可以我們就是依法依規來說如果當然有不符合法規的部分但我們該修正就修正但是我們就人事的部分就是依法依規來處理也包括法人的同事很多他們都是必須要看他們的專業來去做認定包括評估他們的能力的 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5669.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5686.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
如果他已經在被調查的時候我是認為啦你那個時候就我不知道你知不知道Maybe你不知情但他這個速度人民看了很奇怪他已經在被調查的時候先升別人官然後媒體披露了以後學校跟著拿掉他的博士學位 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5688.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5707.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
一個禮拜後他馬上離職我們就是人事的處理就是依法依規來處理那就放在你的三個月調查報告是謝謝那下一個當然是非常多人關心的這個大禮包出來了以後我們民意代表也會被問很多細節所以你剛提到這個就業保險法性別平等工作法修法什麼時候你的版本會送到立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5708.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5722.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
上禮拜其實上禮拜已經通過院會已經送到立法院了好那我們希望可以盡快排因為剛剛也有聽到非常多委員的版本是很差異很大的所以我們希望之後再逐條討論的時候現在已經送到立法院了好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5723.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5744.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
那在這邊呢剛有委員講到在這個提案說明的時候說國際勞工組織他是希望訂到14週那這個是他們根據醫學上的看法等等的那我調查一下現在有14週日本、德國、瑞士、馬來西亞16週法國、新加坡、荷蘭等等的那請問這邊要部長回答說你會支持調整到14週嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5748.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5777.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
我們這次的方案是到12週那為什麼其實我們也請教過一些專家因為其實可能不是單單看產價因為也包括會考慮到台灣其實是有相關的留庭制度的那尤其是台灣的留庭制度其實是可以讓產價直接銜接留庭制度所以這兩件事情其實是可以一起併投來看的所以我們也請教過相關的這個包括性評的專家等等等等我們討論說其實目前我們是把方案設定到延長到12週 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5778.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5799.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
OK那這個等到每一個委員的版本都進來我們一起來討論因為也有一些醫學的論文他去比較每一個國家產後休息的時間跟母嬰的健康程度我們的確是認為現行的8週是太短的是應該延長可是到延長到什麼程度那也會有一些專家覺得可以考慮因為台灣是有留庭制度的國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5800.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5816.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
對所以尤其是他可以銜接來請很多我剛講的其他國家也有那我們來講一下其實這一屆很早就開始討論產價的問題齁那當時呢這個何佩珊部長然後還有今天出席的一位黃司長我放一下影片 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5818.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5836.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
他們都一直提到有懷孕歧視的問題他一旦請了他就沒辦法再回來對 這樣會不會反而造成他工作上的困擾他這個也實不實用我們不然你剛剛說會造成他什麼樣的困擾就是懷孕女性他反而他就業上的歧視會被歧視我覺得這個是兩件事其實部長講這個有點驚訝這完全是兩件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5839.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5856.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
那這個當時何部長說三個月會提出方案因為不同產業因應這個產價延長會有不同問題可是到今天喔勞動部都沒有提出沒有其實總統先提出的然後勞動部提出方案剛剛我也承接主席很關心的事情他說 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5857.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5867.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
這個之前他講到幼教的問題啦或者是比如說醫療院所啊老師啊百貨補習班等等的那您剛剛有講到說用直帶津貼那我想要問的是你們現在有評估哪些產業比較有問題那你多久內會溝通完畢因為剛剛您的這個答詢說你要分別的一一找這些產業做溝通嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5882.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
5896.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
第一個是我們的確有跟企業界去做一些討論其實我們在整個制度設計的時候我們也認為確實必須要考慮到企業界的情況所以包括剛才說就像8週12週這個問題其實我們也跟企業界有做一些意見的交換 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
5897.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
5912.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
那應該是說剛才其實特定有幾個特別大家關注的領域啦比方說剛才像是幼托或者是在學校裡面的狀況那我們會來跟包括衛福部跟教育部來討論這個怎麼樣有更彈性人才的運用但的確這部分會需要目的世界主管機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
5913.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
5931.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
我剛問得很清楚我說多久以內你會溝通完畢因為我們是民意代表我們會一直被問你們520就發出很多圖卡發完圖卡以後大家一直問我們細節結果現在質詢其實你們也回答不出來然後說要跟每一個產業做溝通然後要看他們的人力調配評估多久可以完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
5932.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
5953.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
那大家也會問我們嗎520發的圖卡什麼時候才要上路第一個是這個那第二個不同的產業也會問我們說那他們應該要怎麼做配套第一個在520發出的圖卡在勞動部這邊其實我們有很多會需要經過修法所以什麼時候上路當然會要看修法的期程 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
5953.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
5968.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
這也是為什麼其實在520公佈以後527總統發佈整個新戰略的整體內容28號我們就通過院會了所以聽起來你也是520才看到你是跟我們一起的時間看到的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
5969.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
5996.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
當然不是啊那你提早就知道這其實是演繹了很長一段時間你提早就知道那你現在應該也可以講所以我們包括我們設計包括直帶的津貼包括替代人的補助就是希望讓企業在人力運用上面有更多的餘裕而且得到政府更多的支持所以你應該講得出來你覺得你多久以內可以溝通完這些產業啊因為你是比我們還早知道的不是嗎我不是比你更早知道我們是參與這整個東西的設計是嗎要多久啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
5997.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6026.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
因為剛剛很多人的關心就是說比如說他是托育中心 幼兒園 補習班那個跟文說明像剛剛大家談到教育部跟衛福部我們可以在一個月內跟他們討論一個月內跟他們說產業討論那這也是您剛剛講到了啦我覺得大部分的人會想問說他是一個人拿800塊的津貼還是大家拿800塊的津貼因為他的值貸不一定是一對一有的時候是多對一那多位值貸的話他是有上限的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6028.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6045.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
跟委員報告我們現在的800塊是以育兒勞工請假一日800塊那他的職貸就看實際上面有多我們會有一定人數上限然後到時候實際上面真的這些勞工有領到職貸津貼的我們才會所以是一人800還是多人一起合領800 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6046.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6072.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
一個勞工請一天假的時候我們用800然後看他有幾個值貸那僱主實際上發我們的上限是一個勞工請假那一天是800所以如果是兩個人在做他的工作的話就是兩個人來分這個所謂的值貸其實它是一個加給的值貸津貼也就是可能僱主本身就他必須本來就負責值貸勞工的工資可是我們這是一個加給值貸津貼的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6073.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6078.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
好那你這個是會設上限嗎我剛好問你會設直帶的上限嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6080.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6103.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
這個部分我們現在正在跟因為我們會跟地方政府合作所以我們有一些細節會跟地方政府聽他們執行面上面的建議再做調整好那這個問題也是大家蠻關心的因為呢民眾他現在時間有限所以他大概就是靠您發的這個圖卡來吸收去了解這個資訊那這邊寫每天一小時早下班或 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6104.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6120.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
彈性上下班請問這個意思是說他也可以早下班也可以晚上班或者是在跟雇主協調如何彈性你們可以把它講清楚嗎這個做法是其實我們有提供這邊有兩個選項一個選項是他的總工時不變但是他是 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6122.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6139.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
調整他上下班的時間這是一種做法其實蠻多企業採用這種做法那也有一種是直接減少一個小時的工時那因為對於不同行業不同企業來說他實施不同的制度他的挑戰不一樣所以我們是讓他可以做選擇所以如果他是 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6140.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6157.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
设计是弹性上下班的这个做法而且他把它设定进他的工作规则里面的时候在这部分我们会给你奖励但如果企业认为他有办法可以做到减少工时一小时这个做法的话我们也可以奖励包括那一小时的补助但是你的减少工时一小时应该不只是早下班吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6158.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6185.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
还有包括晚上班应该也可以吧当然就是整体的减少一小时所以你第一句话之后可能要稍微修改一下就是减少公时等于是每天少一小时公时是 少一小时公时的意思好那因为民众其实都会想知道这些礼包分别上路的时程那之后我们也会一一来询问你因为有的是不需要修法有的是需要修法的是那之后我们会希望说可以知道每一项事情它上路的时间 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6187.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6200.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
這個計畫我們目前在跟地方政府討論在執行上面那大家怎麼一起來做合作也包括人力上面怎麼處理好謝謝部長謝謝主席好謝謝陳金威委員發言接下來請邱惠璐委員發言主席還有各位委員大家好好那有請洪部長有請洪部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6218.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6238.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
好 洪部長今天是想跟你交流依法行政的概念我想依法行政當然有法就應該要落實那沒法就應該補落洞那這個法當然最主要是針對性別平等工作法來跟你交流那我想上個禮拜三立法院這箱如火如荼在討論台灣未來帳戶但是另外一箱就是總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6240.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6260.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
在同天也公布所謂的18項大禮包那我們發現這18項大禮包其實跟我們的台灣未來帳戶有蠻多雷同的地方那除此之外我們也發現就是台灣民眾黨在過去一年兩年提出的修法草案其實好像也跟你們的大禮包 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6261.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6286.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
在其中有看到類似的銀資那我想跟您請教一件事就是關於第一件事就是鼓勵企業來佈建這個托兒措施那當然我們民眾黨提到說這些佈建的費用如果扣除掉政府的補助之後那可以從盈利事業所得稅當中來扣除這筆費用那現在你們提出的禮包是說你們的支出費用是要從營業所得稅扣除200% |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6288.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6299.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
我們看到大禮包的圖卡是200%但是今天早上我看到書面資料看到的是200%的限度內那所謂限度內就是150% 100% 50%就是可以到200的意思啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6302.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6330.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
所以意思就是上限是200那你們的大禮包我們會覺得說200就是一個固定的數字但是今天看到你們的那個所以您現在澄清是200%的限度所以有可能是10%、50%、150%、200%這個依據是什麼跟我的說明基本上就是200基本上就200所以你們那個限度內我們為什麼訂到200因為我們看到很多委員的版本其實只有大概就是100%我們為什麼訂到200就是要增加鼓勵的誘因 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6330.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6343.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
了解好所以就是例如說他支出是不是1000萬所得稅的扣除以我們的版本有可能1000萬但你的版本會200%就是2000萬的意思好ok好那第二件事想跟您請教說但是我們是有法律提案的 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6344.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6369.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
是 只是你們今天早上的那個文字說明叫限度內叫限度內 我只是在澄清到底是兩版 我們的信用法裡面是有法律提案的好 OK 沒有問題 好了解 那第二件事就是我們那個產價的延長我想我們當然產價延長是一個共識 各黨的共識 那現在就是說我們有流產價 流產價就是按現行的規定再多給一倍的價 但是好像 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6370.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6397.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
政府就是勞動部這邊好像對於這件事是沒有進一步提出一些政策有嗎在這次的修法裡面在這次新公法裡面我們其實也讓流產家原本是沒有薪資的部分讓他變成有薪我知道這個我剛剛有看到但我在講日數因為我們的未滿兩個月的流產是五日變十日然後未滿二到三個月的流產是一個星期變兩個星期我在講日數當然薪資我剛在書面報告有提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6397.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6419.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
那日數 假的部分 你剛講是前的部分不是在報告裡面 是在法案裡面直接就是有放出沒有問題 那我現在在講假 不是前的部分因為你好像回答我前的部分我們的確在這一次流產假的假的日數方面沒有增加對 是沒有增加 那是否因為流產其實身體也需要修復是否這邊可以來做一個考量其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6423.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6441.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
新聞報導我們這一次針對流產價部分除了剛剛討論的薪資以外原本現行的勞基法規定的產價然後流產價部分是三個月以上的流產價那我們這一次讓勞基法跟薪工法有其一在假的期間讓他有其一的規範所以勞基法那個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6442.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6463.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
也會有新增到三個月以下的流產就包含三個月到兩個月兩個月以下的流產分別都有增訂進去所以我們認為說階段性的現在先讓這個勞基法跟性供法的期間先讓他起因了解但目前沒有未來你們不排除嗎是這樣的意思嗎目前沒有未來不排除是這樣的意思目前沒有什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6464.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6479.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
就是我們有加倍啊我目前的這個日數是沒有增加對對對對對那未來是否有研議的可能性因為我們有提出這樣草案啊這樣草案到時候也會逐條審查那勞動部這邊是不是能夠給我們一點支持當然我覺得大家到時候是可以來討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6480.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6507.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
但是我們的確現在是處理是他的薪資的部分了解那現在就是這個育兒津貼嘛我想各版的版本有相當程度的公式就是津貼要提升然後那個請你的月數也要提升嘛那我看我們台灣民眾黨在兩年前就提出來了那勞動部這邊也跟上了那我們也樂觀其成那我想今天減少工時的問題很多委員之前有問嘛那減少工時當然目前就是減少一個小時的工時不得請求報紙 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6508.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6529.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
但是這個行政院這邊的大禮包就提到說可以提早一個小時下班那不減薪那不減薪我想我剛剛聽到您這邊的澄清好像應該是就是說雇主還是要給付如果提早一小時下班還是要給付這個員工那一個小時的薪資那至於政府的做法就是用一些獎勵計畫的補助把這一小時的工資補助給勞工嘛不然給雇主 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6534.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6564.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
那現在請問一個問題你要勞資獎勵計畫的內容的內涵是什麼可不可以一個月內給我們一個書面說明關於獎勵計畫的具體內容我先讓委員知道第一個的確在我們現在的獎勵計畫的設定裡面他是要勞資同意的所以要雇主他評估他企業的運作的狀況他是可以的我知道同意這前提我們都知道獎勵計畫的內容我們現在在獎勵計畫的內容因為現在我們也在跟地方政府在討論裁員我擔心的是裁員 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6565.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6585.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
財源我們都準備了準備啊就是要告訴我們講異計畫的內容財源我們其實已經做了準備已經也跟行政院討論了那現在是在執行的方式上尤其是要跟地方政府一起來合作執行的方式上我知道你當然有提到說就是為了企業不要讓他們運轉不過來所以其實不是強制的要那個但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6586.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6604.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
裁員要先準備好因為如果僱主也願意但沒有裁員可能就巧夫難為無名之吹我們其實有先做了準備裁員的準備那沒關係之後給我們書面報告關於裁員那我現在第二件事是想請教那個新少老的房子那我想新少老的房子僱主有事前房子一路事後的一個採取立即有效處 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6605.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6621.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
那個那個措施立即有效的一個處理措施那這個如果這兩個義務如果沒有達到的話其實就會有行政罰款那我想問一下部長勞動部是不是針對雇主這兩個義務如果違反是不是有確實開罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6624.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6639.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
跟委員報告這個法有明定如同剛剛我們說的所以地方政府如果企業單位沒有做到性供法13條第一項或第二項地方政府查明屬實當然會開罰那你們有掌握這個開罰的數字嗎就是一年大約幾件 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6642.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6659.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
我們那個基本上地方政府在開法以後我們有要求一定要在一個月內處分的一個月內上那個系統公告所以那個件數在網站上面其實都可以查得到我知道查得到但你們有掌握嗎那個件數一年大概多少件還沒有掌握 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6660.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6677.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
待會跟委員回報沒有問題那我現在有一個問題我想要請教部長其實這個是真實發生的就是有個護理人員在洗身室被病人的家屬偷摸大腿然後結果當然就是一個性騷擾事件然後醫院的處理方式就是把這個洗身室的 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6678.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6692.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
護理人員呢他的採取立即有效補救措施就是把A區換到B區但是洗腎室是一個開放的空間你換到A區跟B區其實在同一個空間視覺上都可以看得到對方那這個病人家屬就是這個這個叫什麼性騷擾的人他五天之後又陪他媽媽回來洗腎結果呢發現他的護理師被調走了卻勃然大怒說你以為你是鄉親的嗎誰要碰你啊那所以又被公然侮辱了一次那我想問一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6707.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6716.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
在部長的眼中呢到底這個犧牲是從A區調到B區是不是針對這個性騷擾事件的立即有效的一個補救措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6718.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6742.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
跟委員報告調動這件事情當然就如同委員剛剛提到的我們的法本意就是要做一個安全的他也採取補修措施是不是立即有效我想重點在立即要快然後重點在有效那我們現在整個制度上面設計如果當事人覺得說僱主你的安排仍然讓我處於是一種不安或危險的這樣的一個感覺的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6742.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6767.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
她可以跟地方政府做其實我在想這已經不是主觀的認知了她這是一個洗腎室完全是一個透明度非常高沒有隔間的一個區域然後她從A區域被調到B區域其實視覺都看得到然後找也找得到所以這顯然不是一個立即有效的補救措施我是這樣感覺這已經完全不是主觀的問題這也是一個客觀判斷的問題那當然這個案件也被這是哪一個縣市的 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6768.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6780.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
新北這個案件當然也被處理了就是有這個到法院去處理那這個案件那當然諸如此類的案件其實勞動部就是要確實開罰那現在重點剛剛市長有說要給我數據其實我自己已經去撈數據了從你們勞動部有一個裁罰查詢系統這個系統從106年開始那106年大概就是系統開辦的 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6792.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6807.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
我們其實只撈到22件場域是在醫療護理還有長照機構所以這顯示說開罰率非常的低非常的低那請問這個有沒有黑數還有跟護理人員的體感溫度相不相符 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6808.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6822.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
因為怎麼會10年了然後以醫療院所護理院所長照院所為關鍵字輸進去開罰率居然只有22件平均一年不到2.2件平均一年只有2.2件不到3件 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6823.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
6852.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
跟文說明你這邊指的意思應該是在醫療護理長照機構裡面不是說所有嘛對不對醫療跟護理長照機構幾百間上千間我覺得這事情分兩段處理第一個是只要有相關開罰的數據都應該要上網公佈這件事情我們會來做第二件事情是如果這個包括相關的查查或者是申訴的案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
6854.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
6862.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
我們不是去追求案件多我們不是追求案件多而是當如果真的有性騷擾事件發生的時候我們要怎麼樣讓包括可能被騷擾的人能夠有更這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
6871.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
6890.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
放新的條件來去申訴然後也包括包括相關的地方因為以我剛講的新店的這個案件嘛他其實就是沒有採取立即有效補救措施那這個完全已經被法院認證了我只是用這個案件來凸顯給大家看其實雇主對於採取立即有效補救措施其實他在 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
6891.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
6897.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
措施上力道上其實都還有加強的空間那如果有加強空間開閥產生恫嚇力讓他們進而去改善他們的行為我覺得這非常的重要問題是系統只看到過去10年遼遙可數的22件那我們覺得這跟護理人員的體感溫度差很多啦也存在黑數那為什麼我敢說有黑數體感溫度差很多因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
6912.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
6941.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
其實全聯會有委託這個專家學者來做一個計劃那這個計劃其實護理人員他們反映說他們在職場的環境遭受到性騷擾的比例其實高達40到60%那這等於是日常那可是從過去十年卻只有開罰一年不到三件那部長不好意思紅字是代表什麼意思紅字是你擔任部長之後開罰的件數我已經標示出來了在醫療機構只有六件 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
6942.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
6948.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
還有在護理機構沒有 長照機構只有兩件所以部長可不可以帶回去檢討如何強制的取締是不是擴大勞檢把它列為勞檢的項目是措施之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
6959.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
6973.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
好那因為時間的關係我最後做一個結語請部長呢針對大禮包的部分給我們法源依據當然您剛剛有講只是整理出來給我們還有裁員就是每一項大禮包背後的裁員請提供一個月那再來就是落實我剛剛 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
6975.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
6991.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
所說的 就是報那個嘛 獎勵計畫嘛 也是公務預算沒關係 那還有提出書面報告就是關於怎麼落實那個13條事前的防治事後的採取立即有效措施的對策好那就謝謝部長 謝謝那謝謝邱惠睿委員的發言 接下來請邱振鈞委員發言待會在我們的王玉敏委員發言 詢答完畢後我們休息10分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7008.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7009.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
好 主席好 我們請紅部長請紅部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7017.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7046.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
邱委員好部長好部長我們總統一直告訴國人現在台灣經濟成長大好股市這個平創新高薪資也不斷升級提升那政府還要帶頭讓全民共享經濟成果這番話聽起來今天的勞工其實是滿滿的幸福感但是勞動部最近自己公告的一份駕駛徵選的這個簡章卻直接戳破了這個國泰民安的粉紅泡泡 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7047.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7066.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
那帶基層勞工看清這個殘酷的事實那部長你們要找的部長駕駛要求身體健康品行端正無不良紀錄且具有小型車以上職業駕駛執照及經驗中央機關學校的限職公用 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7066.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7071.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
因為必須要擁有職業駕駛具備豐富駕駛經驗還要隨時待命負責長官公務車勤務的專業駕駛我們在勞工的最高守護勞動部眼裡到底值多少薪水 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7083.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7106.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
跟文說明第一個昨天其實我們在這個價值爭選的簡章裡面的這個數字其實就是物質其實在發現當下其實就已經下架了這是第一個第二個我們其實都會要來遵守行政院的要求也就是不管是約僱人員約用人員包括工友等等等等所以我們現在價值是用工友嗎用工友的這個新點嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7108.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7133.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
其實不管是約顧 約用 公有其實都要在最低工資的1.1倍以上我們目前查了一下基本上我們都可以用36000塊以上所以你們也覺得偏低嗎你們昨天公告的那個是偏低的嗎昨天是物質不是偏低的問題昨天就是物質那你也承認嗎對 昨天就是物質你們會改嗎物質已經下架了那我們也去算了一下其實我們要這個聘用價值我們都可以在36000塊以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7134.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7163.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
好那第二個我再請問一下今天排審的188個草案包含性別平等工作法還有就業保險法這裡面最早的委員提案是在113年初這當中修法的內容大概都聚焦在透過一點多一點的國家支持來增加國人生小孩的意願這些委員一上任就開始積極針對少子化的問題想辦法在裡面還有你過去也共同提案共同關心的版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7163.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7184.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
那我看起來很可惜行政院到今年5月28號才從這個大罷免的夢裡美夢驚醒想到要跟著修法你們勞動部去年在12月就已經預告了就業保險法的修正草案那行政機關法案在預告階段代表你們的勞動部站在勞工主管機關的專業立場認為應該給勞工 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7187.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7214.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
更完整的保障嘛那為什麼今天的草案我都沒看到行政院的版本第一個是在上個禮拜四其實已經通過行政院運用會了我想現在已經送進立法院那當然現在等待一讀應該等待一讀之後才會送到這個委員會裡面好啦你們那條文寫得好好的就是失業給付等待縮短期為七天 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7214.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7240.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
那高齡者納保促進就業這個經費提高到20%那雙薪各加一個月的津貼但為什麼行政院5月28號公佈的內容卻把這些對勞工有幫助條件一條一條都砍掉了勞動部寫好的版本在行政院討論的版本我跟你說明為什麼因為5月28號的內容主要是針對跟這個育兒友善的職場友善的部分那你現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7241.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7255.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
簡報上面包括失業給付從14天到7天高齡者納保就會出經費從10%到10%這些部分還是會有他不是在這一包送進來因為這一包什麼時候會送我們會盡快我們也希望盡快因為這一包還要送到行政院審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7257.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7284.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
育兒跟育兒有關的部分比方說剛才說像失業給付高齡者納保跟就業促進經費這些部分是要還要經過行政院審查但我們會盡快所以你會繼續你也會繼續堅持嗎當然當然當然這是這是我們的草案這是也是我們的主張只是這一次我們會先送進立法院先通過院會的是針對育兒有關也就是這個人口新戰略裡面在職場友善的部分我們先把這部分先送進立法院來對好 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7286.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7312.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
我希望快一點啦好不好當然我們也很希望趕快做再來這個移工的制度就是說近期我們看到很多關於移工的訊息包含僱主團體對家事移工制度有強烈不滿我大概整理了一下家事移工如果逃跑僱主就要面臨很長一段的空窗期照顧斷層沒人管那第二個移工虐待被照顧者的案件實有所聞那第三個 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7313.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7336.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
移工懷孕之後後續的照顧能力斷層雇主不知道怎麼辦那勞動部每次的回應有回等於沒有回啦那以現在勞動部現在的制度設計強調移工權益保障但對第一線的雇主特別是家庭照顧的雇主配套支持資訊透明與照顧空窗補位明顯不足那結果就是把 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7337.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7355.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
政府把這個制度責任往雇主身上壓卻沒有把這個協助做到完整現在的問題不是沒有保障我們的移工而是我們勞動部不是只要保障移工要把這個不能把這個成本壓力丟給雇主尤其是家事雇主 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7356.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7377.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
本來就是因為家中有失能者老人或者重大照顧需求才不得不聘請移工嘛如果今天移工一旦懷孕政府講的移工權益安置保護但僱主最現實的問題是人誰來補空窗誰來接照顧中是誰負責?根文說明喔第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7378.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7404.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
我們是很清楚意識到家庭類的僱主跟企業僱主其實應該是不同的家庭類的僱主是因為他在照顧資源上面的需求跟缺乏所以才必須要來聘僱家事移工看護工的方式來去因應他的需求那我們很清楚看到這一點所以我們目前也正在跟衛福部包括我剛才其實也還在跟衛福部的理事長在討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7406.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7420.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
那整體來說我們怎麼讓包括是政府能夠提供的照顧資源跟移工可以提供的服務的勞務我們怎麼樣來整合這裡面的資源能夠讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7422.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7439.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
這個家庭類的僱主尤其是重症的需求者能夠有更多的照顧服務的支持這部分我們現在很積極的在跟衛福部這邊來討論我們要用兩部的合作的方式一起來因應重症 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7440.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7458.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
重症的家庭类雇主他的需求包括刚刚我讲完现在就是现在的制度就是一旦移工失联雇主必须依法等待一个月的地补空窗我这个调了之前三个月那劳动部提出的配套是什么因为每年 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7460.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7484.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
這個喘息服務最多是52天而且他一天是10個小時他不是以24小時來計那面臨說24小時要不間斷照顧的重任家庭52天的服務到底能填補多少跟文說明你確實講到點了現在這部分包括喘息的天數包括其他類型的服務資源是不是可以增加這就是我們現在正在跟衛福部討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7487.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7514.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
這就是我要講的所以我們並沒有依舊覺得說52天好像就一定夠了並不是這部分當然是可以檢討的我們也跟衛福屋在檢討之中因為的確一個家庭內的僱主他可能會遇到很多不同的情境會需要政府跟這個國家更多照顧資源的協助你們要多久才可以有結果因為涉及到兩部我自己真的心裡面是很急我說我剛才也在跟呂市長我們才在下面在討論這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7514.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7536.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
那這部分可以給我 多久可以給我一個報告我們盡快好不好 我們盡快 一兩個月內好不好一兩個月內 這部分真的很重要我知道啦 所以我今天會提嘛那第二個 移工懷孕的理想與現實那根據勞動部提供給立法院的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7537 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7542.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
移工勤領這個勞保生育給付的人數110年是3632人111年就增加到了4900人那112年又增加到5687人現在113年又來到5800多人 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7553.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7575.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
那從110年到113年增加了2169人成長將近六成這不是少數個案也不是偶爾發生的事我要先講清楚當然這些我現在要講的這些數字是有勞保資格的可以領生意給付的移工多數多數家事移工如果沒有普通勞保是不在這個統計裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7577.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7591.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
所以現在問題更清楚就是說有申請勞保的移工生意給付的人數已經逐年增加沒有普通勞保的家事移工懷孕待產產後或攜帶子女的需要安置時又可能進入救安基金的支應安置體系 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7592.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7618.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
那 移工懷孕 尤其是家庭看護這個 看護工的懷孕政府的回答永遠很標準就歡迎大家打1955然後提供移工婦幼權益保障指引協助諮詢 協助安置 協助轉換但我要問的是 這些服務能不能解決雇主最困難的這個難題那 人誰來補 空窗誰來接 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7620.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7641.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
你現在問的這個問題其實就跟就是剛才上面那個問題的延伸就是當今天這個勞工他他發生了各種狀況的時候有可能會對這個僱主產生空窗這時候有沒有可能有更多的國家的照顧資源可以來填補這個需求其實跟我們在問的上面一個問題是一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7643.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7668.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
所以我們其實為什麼會非常非常重視這個我們怎麼樣子這個兩部的一起來合作來支應這些重症需求者他的照顧需求我們為什麼這麼看重的原因是在這裡因為我們就財務面來講就是說呃騙過一個家庭幫傭不含時數啊每個月成本大概將近要3萬元啊那碰到這個這個呃漁工懷孕的時候他又必須要繼續也不能夠把他 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7669.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7676.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
請辭嘛 他還繼續要聘僱嘛那這個部分對一般的家庭來講他的負擔是增加的非常的重啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7678.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7704.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
所以我現在講的意思是說我們應該有一個配套比如說救安定費然後我們跟僱主收錢是不是這些錢可以用在這些地方來協助我們這些家屬跟文說明第一個其實現在剛才在講的喘息的服務其實有很多就是用救安定費收到的錢來去做支應那未來我們對於提供的服務甚至可以花在這部分的錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7705.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7730.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
我們也可以覺得有檢討的空間好啦那我最後面我就要求三件事第一就是廢除或大幅縮減這個剛剛我們講那個空窗期建立人力調度的資料庫以確保僱主在空窗期能夠獲得及時合法的短期替代人力那第二全面檢討就業安定費的用途公開透明告訴我們這筆錢用在支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7731.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7747.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
家事移工雇主上面的具體的項目跟成效啦那第三個提出立即提出解決移工懷孕所造成的倫理斷層的具體的配套而不要給不是給一個這個知情的指引就打發掉可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7748.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7766.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
跟文說明其實第一個農部當然不是要去鼓勵移工懷孕但沒有要去鼓勵移工懷孕是當這個狀況發生我現在講的意思就是說秋瑋你好意思齁因為你自己也超過六分鐘我才超過三分鐘而已嘛對不對好不好時間已經超過快五分鐘我最後一題等他回答好不好那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
7769.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
7793.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
剛剛我講那三個你給我報告可以嗎可以可以嗎我現在講的就是這個好那多久兩個月好謝謝部長好謝謝邱政軍委員發言接下來請王育民委員發言好謝謝主席有請部長有請黃部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
7800.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
7802.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
今天我們討論新公法的修法第一個我要請教你5月28日賴總統開記者會然後也提到減少工時的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
7822.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
7830.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
那當時你在記者會上面呢我不曉得是你口誤還是你的意思是這樣你說這次修法呢是 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
7832.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
7853.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
要用合意制只要要雇主同意才可以這個減少工時你的意思是我們不入法就是說是需要勞資合意你才可以就是去請這個一小時是這樣子嗎跟委員說明第一個在這次修法裡面我們的修法草案的確沒有包括性供法19條 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
7855.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
7873.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
你的版本沒有沒有好我要說明為什麼第一個事情是因為其實目前在縮眼工時的部分我們即便是看這個尤其是現在台灣其實一些產業目前產業的經驗裡面不同的產業他的工作安排的差異其實很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
7874.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
7898.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
那如果你仔細看新公法19條它其實是一個強制性的條文也就是當勞工申請雇主就不得拒絕是啊那我們其實也跟很多產業談過他們都很希望這部分先用獎勵的方式即便是台北市的做法所以這只是一個獎勵方案嗎不是一個法律案嗎是一個我們要提一個獎勵方案也包括裡面要配套 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
7899.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
7926.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
這個配套就是要讓僱主同意的門檻可以降低這個就是我要先確立的因為如果是這樣會跟一般民眾的認知落差很大因為當時5月27號這個記者會出來之後事實上有一些育兒的家庭家長都好開心因為他覺得這變成是我們每一個人的權利我可以跟僱主就是要求每天減少一個小時而且是減食不減薪那結果剛剛部長的說法是這個是需要經過勞資合理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
7928.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
7947.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
是好那這樣子真的就差很大因為原來的這個新工法19條他其實是30個人以上的企業欲有未滿3歲的勞工都可以這個是他的權利每天可以減少一個小時的這個公司這個條文還是在的對 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
7949.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
7965.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
這個條文還是在的所以我們這次的獎勵計畫一樣是把小孩的歲數拉到12歲也沒有這個30人的企業的限制我知道 但是他有一個只要企業主不同意他也不申請企業如果覺得他實行這事情有困難的話確實是沒有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
7968.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
7986.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
在我們看到其他國家也是有這樣的設計的部長我今天就要特別提醒你就是事實上在114年的雇用管理就業平等的調查報告裡面就發現了現行性工法30條為什麼很多員工他在這個部分他不去申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
7988.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8006.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
因為過半數直接的企業他就不同意也就是說企業主握有很大的權利他認為你不可以申請其實員工也知道老闆的意思他其實就不申請那在這樣的一個情況底下我認為你會讓這次的美意大打折扣 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8007.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8025.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
跟我的說明這是為什麼我們這一次因為都在資方手上跟我的說明我們還是要想辦法讓雇主同意的門檻降低這是為什麼我們要設計全額的薪資補貼那個小時全額的薪資補貼既然你都做到這麼到位了台北48層那我們就如何我們是全額的薪資補貼第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8026.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8054.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
我們還設計可以給予直帶津貼的加級就是希望把這個門檻給降低但我還是要跟委員說明如果這一條變成是法規上面的強制的話我們目前問了很多的企業這的確有一些類型的工作比較容易做這樣子縮減工時的事情但有一些類型的工作他們要做到這件事情尤其是他的排班制度的部分會造成他們企業運作很大的困擾跟混亂 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8055.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8084.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
我們是考慮到這一點以後才認為我們在這個階段先用獎勵的方式來降低企業同意的門檻部長我覺得我剛剛前面的發言其實已經講到我們現在少子化坦白講已經是國安危機了我們現在幾乎是要拜託年輕人生小孩那你去拜託他你如果沒有讓他覺得這個環境對他的友善程度相較於過去其實是很大幅度的改變跟進步的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8086.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8114.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
這個拜託是無效的因為年輕人他也會看所以基本上你剛剛都已經講了你們的配套你這個整個都是還不是八成補助都已經全部補助了政府用這麼大的一個力氣結果你就插一個門檻你說我不要訂法律我不要讓員工說申請就可以申請我認為這個是你們真的要回去好好想想至少我的主張我認為應該就是搭配法令我們就是一步到位 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8115.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8131.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
我們就是政府的配號做主了所以我有底氣我要求企業配合因為坦白講一天一個小時你說會影響企業多大的幅度這個我這個都不相信不同的工作包括生產線工作上面其實這個就是之前你們的思維你們之前在 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8135.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8150.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
考量任何政策的時候你們都會說哎呀這樣這樣這樣所以呢都不可以你看今天提出法案的委員是很進步的委員們都走在前面你們行政是跟在後面那這件事情我認為你們可以回去再思考但是這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8151.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8179.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
我真的覺得已經到了要完全改變的時候我們就是給有小孩的家庭就是特別增加權力就是我所有的職場我就是允許有小孩的家庭我讓你可以每天減少一個工時你可以減輕你的負擔我真的覺得要到一個你的腦袋瓜整個到好好去轉變的時候了就像剛才前面有很多位其他的委員也的質詢大家也會考慮到在事業體運作的可行性 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8180.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8207.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
這些職場的制度一直以來這一件這個職場制度的進步或者是我們這一次包括提出方案的進展都是會還是同時也需要考慮到企業運作上面的可行性的那我們會盡量的降低我們願意盡量的來降低企業同意的門檻在各種可行的配套上面可是我的確是認為以現在就要用一個修法的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8207.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8213.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
給予強制性我舉個例子日本跟韓國他們其實有相對應的政府但一樣是雇主可以拒絕的 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8216.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8228.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
我們不能比瑞涵更進步嗎?我一定要落後在她後面嗎?委員這不是進步不進步的問題 委員這不是進步不進步的問題部長我還有很多問題要問你 你們自己回去思考 沒有問題這個是你們的權利 但是我認為就是我們真的要來做大翻轉了下一個 我要問你的就是你在記者會上面有提到育兒假的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8241.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8246.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
育兒假這60天是額外增加的還是其實就是原來的育嬰假 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8248.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8273.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
在育嬰留庭裡面我們是在整個育嬰留庭的兩年裡面你到底有沒有額外再加60天還是我這兩個圖表讓你選你記者會上講的所謂的育兒假是原來的育嬰假兩年再外加60天還是其實天數一天都沒有改變就是育嬰假原來的兩年育嬰假我們是要兩年有60天可以單日請來因應台信的需求是哪一個圖右邊還是左邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8277.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8299.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
我們是併入的啊併入的啊所以總天數一天都沒有增加嗎只是名詞改了嘛你把育嬰假改成育兒假嘛但很多家長都以為再播60天我以前是不能夠單日期的是在現在從今年開始從去年提出來的方案上面才可以單日期對但總天數不變現在的單日是30天啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8304.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8325.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
對 就是總天數不變那如果有一個家長但是單位請跟留庭的狀況就是不一樣所以有一個人如果他這個兩年的育嬰假他已經請滿了結果他的小孩三到六歲的時候你說這個放寬六歲以下還有育兒假請問他還有育兒假可以請嗎在目前的法規裡面是沒有的對 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8326.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8344.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
所以我真的認為你們不需要在那邊改變名詞造成家長的混淆你其實根本就沒有增加嘛你就是換了一個名詞然後把它寫說好像有增加我一定不是這樣子的董添樹沒增加什麼不是這樣子你剛自己已經講了第一個是說在大部分其實請預留因為兩年沒有津貼因為稍微限制津貼的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8347.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8354.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
我最後一個是你的這個我們的這個產價產價的部分事實上這個國際勞工組織你現在的8週規定是100年前的標準那國際勞工組織呢在2020年的時候呢它事實上也已經就是增加到了這一個14週了那你現在的修法你硬是自己發明了一個12週為什麼為什麼不直接跟國際接軌 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8376.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8398.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
跟委員說明因為其實我們也請教一些專業者其實大家是提醒說可能不是只丹漢展因為我們是可以讓育嬰留庭來銜接的我們有育嬰留庭制度是可以直接銜接的所以我們在考慮以後我們把8週確實覺得過短所以我們把它延長到12週可是後面其實還是可以直接再銜接育嬰留庭的制度的 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8399.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8427.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
這個我建議就直接跟國際接軌了至少也是14週代表說我們在這個部分因為國際只要講14週它是只單看產價的部分可是我們實際上面其實是可以在銜接雲流停的部分的好 這個我希望這一次我們整體的調整希望就是真的是一個大翻轉那這個部長你應該回去也調整一下自己的想法你現在擔任勞動部部長不是一直看資方的態度如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8428.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8442.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
我們並不是看資方的態度我們在要讓勞工的全力進展的同時可是我們確實是需要顧到其實很多事業單位他的運作就像剛剛前面很多委員都還在問我那如果他缺人怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8443.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8458.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
然後其實很多委員這一個修法律會有不同顧及的面向我們會努力讓勞工的權益可以進步可是確實都是會故意到事業單位他在運作上面的5月27號的記者會主題是 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8460.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8478.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
有善育兒 育兒大禮拜回到育兒的需求 希望這部分我們應該是要入法 就讓全國的家長 你有小孩的家長每天減少一個小時的工時 這件事情是你的權利 而不是要看老闆的臉色好 謝謝好 謝謝王玉敏委員發言 接下來我們休息十分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9091.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9113.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
好 現在繼續開會 跟各位委員說明因為剛剛早上有些委員可能不在由於今天下午本委員會另安排了勞動部的預算審查的議程所以為避免影響下午議程的進行 所以請各位委員發言時請務必遵守發言時間 請大家體諒配合那接下來請廖偉強委員好 謝謝主席 請洪森漢部長有請洪部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9124.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9148.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
部長好,這個禮拜我想全台灣很關注的除了我們今天的主題之外還有另外一個是computax,對不對?是那部長這個我想AI會不會取代工作是這兩年以來大家都非常關切的議題那黃仁勳執行長之前有表示這個全球製造業面臨數千萬的勞動力短缺隨著機器人跟AI導入 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9149.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9169.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
將會填補人力不足並帶動經濟成長那他也更說你不會被AI取代你會被會使用AI的人取代所以我想另外還有一個部分就是在世界經濟論壇的時候其實Google DeepMind的創辦人跟這個Anthropic的創辦人有一個很深度的對談也就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9170.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9186.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
這個人類看起來人類社會過去在農業社會進入到工業革命的時候這個人類社會有適應性可是他有的適應性是來自於農業社會到工業這個工業革命的時候他們有一百多年的時間適應新的工作適應新的工作型態生活型態 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9187.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9204.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
可是他們很擔心的是現在的這個AI的發展可能是一到五年或十年內會對於我們社會人類衝擊非常的大那這衝擊非常大的原因是太時間太短我們來不及適應這個不曉得這個部長同不同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9205.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9220.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
跟文說明我當然從這個人類的工作或哪些工作那些部長你就說你同不同意就是這個短期的衝擊會對於我們的人類社會還有勞動市場會造成很大的衝擊我們非常關注這個衝擊會不會發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9223.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9231.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
所以你不確定你也不同意說可能會衝擊很大這件事情要觀察嘛對不對好那觀察的話就要問一下喔就是部長其實這也是一個勞動權益的問題啦要觀察就是要知道這個勞動要怎麼調整那再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9241.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9255.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
IMF曾經有警告全球約有40%的工作會受到AI影響那已開發的經濟體可能更高達60%那台灣作為高度數位化製造業跟服務業都仰賴白領流程的經濟體 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9256.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9283.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
那你們現在你剛剛說要要密切關注那請問你們有沒有評估過臺灣哪些植物最容易受到AI的衝擊跟我的說明我們其實最近期其實也用各種不同的管道包括跟產業去了解目前臺灣的確以目前臺灣這個當下AI的發展是還沒有造成所謂很大程度的大規模的失業沒有但是但是我們的確也看到比方說在美國 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9284.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9300.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
的確在美國看到比較多是一些比較白領的工作比方說城市的這個設計員或者是一些行政資源或者是一些行政管理行政資源對或客服的人員現在會是在美國這邊比較多大家會 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9303.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9320.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
比較擔心他們的工作時間有限這個我想這個敘述我們大概都有了解那我就是想我們要比較明確的我們要明確一點就是說你的研究你有沒有說去研究到掌握到過去一年因為AI造成的之前或者是植物異動的 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9322.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9340.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
這個職位的中位數是多少你有沒有去做到這樣子的研究我們有跟一些產業在詢問目前其實我們還沒有看到目前這個當下還沒有看到很大幅度的之前的狀況所以你是用詢問的嗎現在的你們的做法是用詢問的嗎然後包括我們也會起一個計畫來去做這部分的監測 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9342.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9359.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
對請問你有沒有研究計劃呢但是他可能要一段時間因為AI的發展的確很快速但我們目前我先講目前我們看到產業狀況是台灣還沒有因為AI的導入而有大規模的失業或解雇這樣的狀況部長我覺得這樣的說法但是未來會是什麼發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9364.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9379.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
這部分的確還需要觀察部長說實在的這樣子的回答我有點擔心啊真的有點像鴕鳥心態喔其實這個世界頂尖的專家都已經講出這個短期的衝擊和植物的變動就算未來可能製造很大量的工作機會但是因為現在的變動比較劇烈那到底要怎麼讓這些轉型很重要我們並沒有樂觀以待 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9384.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9407.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
所以我剛剛的問題就是你的研究計畫那你什麼時候要出來的?你這個其實這已經一兩年的題目了所以我就要問你們你們有沒有做一份AI高風險職務清單?請問你們有做這個東西嗎?跟委員說明第一個他可能不是叫做AI高風險的職務清單但我們最關心的事情還是他的勞動權益跟勞動權益可能會影響的一些類型 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9409.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9428.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
包括會產生勞動權益會產生風險的類型你有做出研究報告你還做這個研究還是最終嗎我們當然其實包括比方說其實它不一定是哪一個職類裡面才會有而是在工作裡面比方說我想問具體一點啦就是說你現在有什麼成果 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9428.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9436.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
或是研究嗎?或者是你有個追蹤的機制嗎?因為現在看起來就是這個都可以用講的,講得很模糊,可是事實上本席要告訴我們我們這個研擬,研擬是不是?其實你知道在 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9441.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9470.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
本席之前在這個我們的委員會其實也早就提過動議喔在2024年底的時候吧當時跟陳昭志委員和陳景輝委員就有說過你們要去做這個研究報告其實到現在已經一年多了其實我看不到這個報告那我們擔心的就是說當已經來臨的時候我們沒有準備好才開始要輔導我們應該提前介入那我的意思你應該是要去盤點要有一個策略性的方式你先盤點現在有可能的衝擊其實這個已經我相信已經有大概的 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9471.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9478.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
我非常關注這件事情是所以非常關注非常關注所以我是建議你是不是可以承諾你們要在多久時間盤點出這個對於AI暴露高風險的職務然後並且建立一個AI職務影響的類似風險地圖或是風險清單那你這個清單可能還要去分類那你究竟要怎麼分類譬如說你是不是要分什麼AI輔助型的職務啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9494.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9514.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
或者是流程重組型的職務啊高替代風險的職務啊所以你在訓練執訓的時候你才可以這個精準的去輔導而不是漫無目的的訓練啊委員第一個因為現在AI的發展包括Agentic其實也是在這幾個月這半年的時間裡面大家才更大幅的使用的 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9515.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9540.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
所以我要說的是說因為AI的技術它真的是日新月異它的型態其實這半年跟過去的半年其實也有很大的差別所以部長你才要在結構上好所以這一定會是一個滾動性的監測的訊息它不是一份報告這份報告訂出來以後未來所有事情就會照著這份報告走並不是這樣子的所以部長我在問的就是因為我問到現在我是看不出來裡面有一個很具體或者是可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9541.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9555.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
我們會有一個監測的計畫我們會定期的提供那出來了嗎你的監測計畫是什麼時候出來你們現在怎麼監測的那多久會發布一次我們目前其實已經在執行中現在在執行中那你多久發布一次你的數據在哪裡可能半年對每半年發布一次那你們數據在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9558.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9587.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
還沒有 所以第一期都還沒出來嘛第一期還沒出來那你半年是什麼時候會出來今年底喔 今年底但是比方說我舉個例子你應該了解如果是去年做的時候當今天Agent還沒有這麼普遍性使用的時候可能大家在看的只是深層性AI可是在今年更多的事情其實大家看的是Agent的時候你就必須把Agent的應用場景跟情境也考慮進去所以它一定是一個滾動性的需求所以其實看得出來這個Agent的出現比大家預估的還要更早更快是 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9588.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9613.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
對,所以我就是擔心的是這個,我一直在講的所以我們要讓它是一個滾動性的監測的掌握而不是只是好像是一個final report這樣的方式我是要求你一個final report,它本來就應該是滾動性我們就是希望它是一個滾動性的方式你要有一個政策的指導,其實就是人工智慧基本法的第15條確保勞動權益,彌平技能差距,輔導失業就業其實這都需要後端的追蹤跟數據 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9614.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9635.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
還有去不斷的去知道第一線現場哪些被取代還有有計劃對 你也有計劃所以譬如說現在因為時間有限其實像新加坡他們也有在推動公司培訓的委員會由工會跟這個僱主共同盤點企業轉型的需求再搭配政府的補助把生產力提升 植物再設計 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9636.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9660.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
然後讓這公司跟員工的技能一起處理一起提升所以你是不是在這種大方向和結構性的部分你應該就要先提早準備然後以及你們的研究追蹤這個實時的追蹤到底要怎麼樣去追蹤這個變化這是很重要的所以你這部分是不是應該可以去做而且尤其是因為我們的整個我們整個現在轉型的部分經濟部補助企業轉型速發部推AI應用那國發會談 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9665.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9693.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
國家的AI戰略但是最後AI衝擊的勞工就是交給你們嘛交給你們要處理嘛所以其實這個部分你我覺得是要提早因應的不能說明第一個在我們目前持訓的系統裡面當然現在也是有導入AI相關的課程跟應用上面的推廣的這絕對有這是對勞工端的第二個對工會的部分我們其實有補助這些相關AI應用的課程那我想要問的是你有沒有去追蹤因為你剛剛一直有說要滾動檢討就是說你要那你怎麼追蹤你現在上課的效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9694.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9717.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
以及這些真的受訓的第一個他有沒有真的在就業在就業率多少那或者是他是在職的他接受了這個他回去他的公司的時候他有沒有實質的因為今天我們這當下但我手上沒有這個數據啊這當然是要去做最終的那尤其是因為前段我說比方說像去年我知道像去年很多的課程他其實還是教的是深層式AI的應用 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9718.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9744.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
可是今年如果今天大家要上課的話很可能大家是要處理是agent上面的應用沒錯但就是就是不一樣的對所以變化的很快這是很多政策跟課程設計者的挑戰好總結時間有限部長我沒有辦法說今天那這個人上完課他以後就不用再學了來他就AI的智能我完全理解我完全理解但是部長因為時間有限了我最後請你是不是可以承諾四件事第一個所謂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9745.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9768.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
AI的高風險職務清單就是說它被衝擊的還有預警儀表板這個部分的研究或者是追蹤這是不是可以承諾做到我們會有追蹤計畫追蹤計畫那你什麼時候出來給本席辦公室下半年吧不是你那是成果你現在追蹤計畫可不可以就是說你怎麼做的你可不可以先提供給本席辦公室我們兩個月給你兩個月對好那代表你們真的有在做嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9769.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9790.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
當然當然 兩個月那為什麼要兩個月才給我們如果你們已經在進行中心處我們兩個月我們把目前有的東西要做一點整理因為它的確在每個階段它的發展不一樣這個整理可不可以兩個禮拜兩個禮拜就是說你大概的方向 現在正在做的就像你剛才說Computex在昨天幾個科技業的大佬他新發布的東西跟前一階段也有很多的不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9790.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9819.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
沒有所以我只是說因為你這個追蹤的計劃其實也不會是等到它每一次發生的事情我們兩個月我們會提供給委員兩個月是不是好那第二個就是你企業AI導入跟勞工權益的揭露指引這部分你們現在有沒有做相關的指引各位這有在做我們其實目前的指引現在在分三個部分其實現在我們的指引有初步的草稿有初步的草稿對但是這個初步的草稿我們目前要正在跟企業實際上面應用的場景去做驗證 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9821.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9838.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
好那你這部分草稿已經有了可是我們要確認這個草稿的內容是不是符合現實裡面企業跟產業應用上面的需求目前正在confirm這件事情沒問題這部分但是你可不可以給個時間你預計有個出版嘛因為這一定是滾動式調整嘛指引會是滾動式調整的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9838.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9856.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
我們可以在這部分我們可以在一個月內把我們的規劃先提供給委員好規劃提供給我第三個是台灣版的企業AI培訓委員會這個是不是要去研議一下這個要怎麼跟企業端合作簡單來講你是也要幫政府在推AI不只是補助這些企業買工具轉型或者是 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9857.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9880.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
這個導系統提高效率其實也要想辦法去引導企業承擔轉型的時候照顧勞工的責任這就是剛剛本席說的像新加坡這種委員會他是不是你怎麼樣去鼓勵這些企業內部去成立這樣的委員會然後一起參與這個再設計然後復能員工跟委員說明第一個從勞動部的角度我們會第一件事情會是先從勞動權益可能會被影響的風險來切入來對勞動權益可能會影響風險這部分來切入 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9886.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9907.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
第二個是在賦能的部分來切入這是我們兩個很重要的路徑部長我具體建議我剛剛第三點這個請你回去是不是跨部會去跟這些經濟部啊抒發部國發會你去了解現在受到補助的這些他應該要優先讓你們理解也進去就是看到我們可以來跟不同部會討論對而且你要去跟他們說他們是不是可以往這個方向試試看嘗試 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9909.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9931.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
我們會跟不同的部會來討論所以這個部分本席具體建議你你應該去跟他們溝通溝通完你是不是給本席一個報告或者是一個簡單的摘要說明因為這時候你涉及到不同的部會所以可能要比較長的時間 兩個月好 兩個月我會追喔所以你要清楚知道說這件事情到底發生什麼我們一定會提供好 第四個是已經最後了因為已經超過快六分鐘了 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9932.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9944.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
最後一個就是政府AI補助案納入勞工影響評估跟再培訓的計畫這個也是一樣跟其他的報告一樣兩兩個月內好給本席辦公室好不好好謝謝好謝謝六位常務委員發言接下來請盧縣議召委發言好謝謝主席有請黃部長有請黃部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9966.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9985.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
今天主要是針對我們女性就是我們的孕婦的一些歧視造成的一些問題所以我們安排了這個性別平衡工作法那我想先問部長說你知道大概因為懷孕被解雇或者是之前的人大概有多少%嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9987.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10009.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
因為懷孕被這個這就涉及到懷孕歧視對這也是違法的對啊我知道那大概他的太陽大概就是在我們可能資料再提供給你那我大概念給你聽就是大概我查的資料是這樣結果之前大概45%調職或者是把薪資降低了大概有30%言語的一些歧視大概有15% |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10010.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10026.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
那因為這樣的懷孕造成你講的母數應該不是所有懷孕的人是所有在就業歧視或性別歧視裡面他在不同類型上面的這個圓餅圖的分配分配吧對那就懷孕的婦女來說他 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10027.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10047.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
因為懷孕這件事情它會產生焦慮的大概65%然後真正發生這些歧視的行為大概有30%大概念這個框架給你聽其實就今天的問題我大概就問三個問題就是說我們如何把勞工的產價拉近與工人員制度的落差第二個就是很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10049.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10069.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
家庭實際上是祖父母在照顧孫子女制度不能忽略隔代教養第三個就是原住民家庭跟偏鄉家庭面對托育支援的不足就業條件較不穩定照顧成本更高的這樣一個處境我們的月兒今天是不是應該有個更長期更差異化的一個支持所以我想就第一個問題來先請教部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10070.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10099.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
我們增加市州產價的薪資補助未來哪一項是政府預算支應然後每年預估說經費是多少第二就是說中小企業雇主先先墊付薪資再申請補助 勞動部能否保證說申請的流程簡單 撥款快速不會讓中小企業資金壓力更大再者就是延長產價是好事不過面對這些配套如果不足 雇主會不會在面試升遷任用的時候對育齡女性產生隱性的排斥 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10100.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10113.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
所以我就要知道說有沒有反歧視這個勞警跟申訴的配套就是針對剛才我所說的歧視的一個背景之下我們勞動部這邊有沒有一些具體的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10114.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10142.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
跟我們說明第一個這個就業歧視的問題我們其實非常重視所以相關的檢查或者是需要執法來開罰落實法律的部分我們一定會做這部分是沒有問題當然我們知道可能職場上面還是會有一些隱形的對於育齡尤其是對育齡女性的歧視這樣的文化我說這是一個隱形的文化這也是為什麼我們在這次修法裡面要非常非常強調我們希望鼓勵更多的男性來參與 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10144.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10164.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
也就是說今天如果所有照顧小孩照顧嬰幼兒的工作全部都集中在某些特定年齡的女性身上的時候那這個歧視就比較容易發生可是當參與的人變多了包括男性也必須參與進來的時候這其實是比較有助於去緩解這個隱形歧視的狀況的 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10165.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10187.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
所以一个是法的层次我们当然会去执法会去落实法尊第二个是在整体的这个职场文化的部分我们还是必须透过一些制度上面的设计所以现在为什么我们在查说这个以日寝的育婴留庭男性增加多这我们不是只是看说哇一半一半就很开心所以我们知道当男性增加多的时候也会对于过去 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10187.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10211.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
集中承擔責任的女性其實在壓力上面會得到緩解第二個他也可能會比較減少被集中去做排除的風險因為時間的關係是希望勞動部能夠提供三項資料給我就說你產價延長補助的財務的估算中小企業可以提供申請補助流程的那個草案也可以提供防止育齡女性就業歧視的具體措施好不好好 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10212.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10241.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
第二個就是我們剛剛說的育孫留子平均現在沒有在這次的考量之內不過我先讓部長知道說現在都會去大概1到5%是隔代教養再偏向是15到22%所以這個是非常大的我們剛剛估算大概我們現在當第一次祖父母的年齡大概是54.5歲也就是說其實祖父母都還在工作就必須要承擔這些實質上的所謂的育孫的工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10241.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10266.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
所以我們覺得是不是應該評估如果0到6歲不行是不是0到3歲可以來照顧孫子女然後能不能如果父母親確實有工作照顧困難是不是提出祖父母實際照顧的事實就可以來申請然後如何來避免父母跟祖父母重複領取津貼然後從先從五津貼留庭這個部分或者是部分津貼事辦開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10268.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10296.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
跟委員說明第一個因為因為留庭的制度其實是源自於包括民法跟包括兒少權益保障法裡面明定父母對於子女的保護跟教養的義務那其實這是基於法定的權利義務關係其實而來的其實因為在這剛才講民法跟兒少權利保障法裡面其實他的框定是父母是有責任跟義務這部分也因為這樣所以我們必須要設計留庭的機制讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10297.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10322.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
父母有一定的權利去行使他在照顧小孩上面的義務所以這裡面其實是會有一個法律權益上面的對應的事情那當然我知道委員其實一直關心像育孫的這樣子權益的部分但的確育孫在包括剛才在談的這幾個法律裡面比較沒有明定他直接的義務那第二個是其實如果相對比較高齡的爺爺奶奶如果為了 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10323.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10352.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
孫子而留職停薪的話其實就實務上面來看他可能相比於青壯世代的勞工他其實能夠再回到職場的挑戰可能是相對更大的那這這可能就是要非常審慎的地方因為的確其實中高齡高齡者的勞工他在職場上的挑戰又更多所以如果涉及一個制度讓他用這個方式去請的時候他到時候我們是會擔心他會不會他能夠重返職場的機會就又會有落差 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10353.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10378.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
因為是我們希望還是能夠可以研議啦好不好是好那就最後一個問題是原住民的部分我們知道原住民的扶幼比大概是29然後全體國民扶幼比是16.8然後我們的平均收入大概是一般家庭的0.63而已所以我就一直覺得說現在有一個6個月大幅延長到18個月然後如果是將近原住民身份能不能能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10380.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10404.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
劉庭那個津貼能夠再加幾百分之十這個部分政府有沒有這樣的考量你剛才講並不是六個月變成18我們其實是六個月如果雙薪都有請滿六個月的話可以再加三個月並不是他直接跳到18那第二個剛才委員講到說是不是這個劉庭其實我們在運劉庭的這個津貼的加給上面目前並沒有設身分別的差別 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10405.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10423.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
好那因為這個加給的這個這個這個津貼的這個比例吼其實他其實是來自社會保險的部分了吼所以的確是沒有我們並沒有正因為身份你說哪一個身份的類型他因為什麼狀況他的這個津貼的 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10427.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10446.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
補貼的比例就有變動的確是沒有這樣那是希望執政黨這邊人口對策的新戰略裡面我是希望不是要不要只看平均數還是要看實際被要被支持的家庭會原住民家庭確實有較高的扶幼壓力跟較低的所得承受力我覺得這是國家應該要精準支持的一個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10447.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10462.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
所以我希望勞動部還是跟園民會來做一個具體可行性評估報告至少可以讓我們知道說受益人需要年度經費、排富設計、財富來源或者是說是否先從低薪多子女園鄉的偏鄉家庭事辦開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10464.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10479.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
根本說明其實每一個子女他都有一份在雲流亭上面的權利的所以比方說如果你兩個子女的話你其實就有相關包含你的育兒價就是兩倍所以這部分子女的多寡跟他的權利其實他是有相對應的 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10480.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10503.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
那當然身份的部分其實目前是針對比較中低收入的身份的話他其實相對他的包括像事業給付等等等他的時間可以從六個月變成是九個月這部分是有的但是薪資的那個津貼的那個給付的部分其實是一樣的因為這是來自社會保險的處理對好那謝謝了那就是還是希望不要用再用一體私用來掩蓋不同家庭的落差是謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10505.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10510.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
好,謝謝盧憲宜召委的發言接下來請蘇清泉委員發言謝謝主席祝主席高票當選好,謝謝來,保定來,有請洪部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10531.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10539.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
選舉很難過選舉很難過的喔我問你喔現在大家都在銷購票、銷AI、銷晶片全部在參與這個就業在這個高科技有多少從業人口我看一百萬大概一百萬左右九十到一百萬然後傳統產業千萬萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10561.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10571.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
當然比較多那現在這裡的高科技大家又小小的薪水都年薪都幾百萬五百、六百、七百、八百 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10572.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10597.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
現在很多我們的醫生都不敢做,我們兩個同學都七八八半,要在這裡,我跟妳報告,主任醫師他要值班,然後在高科技也要值班,都一樣,但是他值班,他有五百、四百的年薪,他值班一個月十來萬,尤其PGY的都是十萬上下,在台大醫院的PGY,九萬塊而已, |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10600.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10614.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
在彩通華人醫院可以拿到十二、十三萬差很多不怪心理不平衡現在的年輕人不像你想的那樣所以這個是很麻煩的事那整個產業失衡那這邊一千多萬都低薪啦所以你今天在講這個平等化、性別都是低薪造成的我也有提兩個案 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10627.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10630.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
要雙清都請滿才能延長三個月請滿六個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10642.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10666.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
要停滿六個月 要請滿 因流年六個月所以爸爸媽媽都要六個月 六個月 對啊 後這年可以簽三個月 才可以多三個月這三個月你是多多少 用他頭保薪資多多少一樣喔 一樣是八成 八成啊你現在頭保薪資 現在連的上限到四萬五千多嘛所以我們要把它打開 你就把它調去十萬就好啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10672.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10684.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
市長市長你有反對嗎第一個這個投保薪資的上限他會牽涉到因為他除了睡暈留庭給付以外他其實也會是失業給付 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10686.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10712.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
他也是會是失業給付的計算的基礎所以我們的確也會需要考慮比方說假如像委員說的達到10萬那六成的失業給付算起來的話他一個月可以拿6萬那他拿6萬是比很多在工作的人還多也就是失業的人可能會拿的比工作的人還多畢業上限因為現在很多人他的薪資是高於這個4萬多塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10713.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10733.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
因為投保薪資都高薪低保嘛所以維吾我們是覺得4萬多的確這個上限應該要打開可是上限開到哪裡其實會有好幾個因素需要考慮對啦這個我知道啦你現在千一法動全生投保的部隊那麼龐大怕你斷不掉嘛我告訴你現在醫生組織醫師 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10736.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10748.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
他一個月 投保 健保你知道健保多少錢 以前是18萬 現在搞不好更多市長 現在是用多少錢投保 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10751.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10759.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
就是說醫生去投保,用健保給他求錢,5.25%那是很恐怖的,現在你這邊,他每個月都要錄檢報,錄到他要退休,都死了 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10769.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10783.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
捏四萬幾塊 拍八折 都捏兩萬幾塊 這差距太大在美國 美國醫師 他如果繳的社保很高他退休之後 他一個月可以領18萬台幣 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10785.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10795.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
18萬台幣,也不算多啦,18萬台幣所以如果回到台灣,繼續這個職業,他們如果超過18萬,美國要把他踢走如果要查就要把他踢走所以現在回到台灣,都希望可以兼職,兼職,不要幫他做這都是技巧啦我現在要講的就是,你現在這個薪資4萬6千多 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10811.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10839.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
四五八零零四五八零零你現在想應該有我們應該可以到五萬五萬不是十萬啦齁目標啦 目標十萬啦齁五萬啦 五萬啊所以你要八成還是六成?八成因為流停是八成就是說你講津貼喔 津貼是津貼因為流停今天是八成八成 啊現在又過來就是那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10844.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10866.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
產價8週變12週那4個月是自由決定還是強制各位說明其實是強制12週但是這個孕產媽媽她可以自己決定要不要提前消假她可以決定然後雇主不得拒絕 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10868.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10892.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
當然啊 趕快回來職場比較好啊因為各個孕產的媽媽她很多身體的狀況會不一樣有一些她需要比較長的恢復期有一些可能覺得她其實身體恢復差不多如果在有專業醫生的確認之下她可以提前回到職場有些她會說她不想要在家裡綁這麼久也有這樣的聲音所以我們這次在設計上面有一個給她自己選擇的選擇選擇權但是她選擇的雇主是不可以拒絕的 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10898.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10921.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
所以你現在是兩筆錢都有付就對了產價是產價,運營流停是運營流停,運營流停是八成他的投保薪是八成產價是他那四周他的勞工的薪資前面的八周過去是企業付目前就是企業付,目前八周產價的薪資就是企業付 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10923.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10951.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
那現在是多的這四週他的薪資 請的這個勞工的薪資是由政府來付就是投保薪資的出現不是 他原本的薪資他不是投保薪資產價並不是放在社會保險裡面的他原來的薪資啊對 他原本的薪資我們現在就是要就是我們這個薪資的部分我們全國的薪資百分百就是要付啊這樣就有差距出來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10952.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10966.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
顧主付完前8週是顧主要付錢你們不付嗎對那後面的那個多出來的4週是你們付對差請多少你這付多少顧主付完以後可以來跟我們請您補貼 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10968.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10989.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
插額就對了不是插額就是內四周的四周全額的補貼雇主來申請你不給雇主還是對就是雇主他先把這個薪資給付給這個員工然後他可以來跟我們申請說這個四周的薪資那由政府來補貼好那第二個剛剛講的津貼今天你說三個月那我的提案是提12個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10993.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11013.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
你說要拿去三個月,你就要他們爸爸媽媽都請六個月過了,待會可以請到一天,這樣好嗎?對你不說這樣很麻煩跟文說明,這裡面有個非常非常重要的考量,今天如果我不設任何前提,就把 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11014.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11040.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
运营留庭的津贴期间给延长的时候很有可能造成的状况是会大部分比方说都是由女性来请这个照顾责任又集中在女性身上所以我们这一次在制度的设计很重要的一个一个用意就是要鼓励男性来请这是为什么我们要两个爸爸妈妈都请满六个月才有多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11041.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11059.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
三個月的原因就是為了這個制度而現在在各個國家在設計育兒友善的職場制度裡面都非常強調要更大程度的設計讓爸爸來請的誘因而不是直接我就把6個月變12個月18個月如果這樣的話你可以想像 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11060.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11082.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
大部分很有可能在職場上面就都是女性必須承擔這個照顧的任務這可能會讓性別不平等的狀況加劇這是我們設計的誘因那最後再回到我剛剛第一個就是說這個產業失衡那這些高所得人都拉高我們的GDP拉高我們的個人平均所得但是這些傳統產業是沒有享受到嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11083.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11096.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
你做勞工最高領導人,你有什麼想法要彌補一下因為這差太多了,這整個都...一天的證交稅可以收到五十幾億,嚇死人 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11103.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11123.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
其實現在整個執政的團隊也是非常非常大的成高的程度在考慮我們怎麼用科技業的紅利所得到的國家的稅收來去協助這個更多廣大的基層勞工所以這一次為什麼我們會提出我們現在很多的方案其實我們認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11125.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11150.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
很多企業如果他負擔的部分我們政府可以幫忙出尤其是對這個中小企業我們可以幫忙出其實某個部分我們就是把科技業他繳稅帶來的紅利希望能夠變成是全民的福利或者是這科技的紅利變成全民或勞工的福利啦所以我們用這個方式來希望來補貼更多育兒友善可能會多出來的支出也讓企業更願意配合 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11152.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11178.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
我那天看到美國亞馬遜的老闆,光頭那一個貝佐斯嘛,娶一個老婆很漂亮那個他說美國的護士年薪是七萬五千塊美金他說年薪七萬五千塊以下的人不用繳稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11179.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11206.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
我覺得他很棒啊我跟他半夜爬起來跟他拍手希望有喔 表示說美國的護士一年是贏七萬五千元一年兩百幾萬所以我們台灣的大家的薪水都太低了嘛他說七萬五千塊年薪以下的人不用繳稅那這樣的話我們在座的很多人都不用繳稅啊我覺得這樣很棒啊你說這是貝佐斯的主張嗎對 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11208.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11229.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
他說這些營利事業所得稅跟個人所得稅要大幅的增加這樣才是公平公正啦我覺得這樣是對的所以普通人往這個方向來努力啦最高的好 謝謝好 謝謝蘇星泉委員發言接下來請林淑芬委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11240.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11243.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
好 謝謝是不是我們繼續請這個洪部長 有請洪部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11250.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11271.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
部長我們長期以來這個社會和政府就是一直把女人生產當成是女人自己的事情是個人的事情但是你知道你們這樣子對女人不友善那當女人不再生育當女性罷工的時候呢你就知道這個國家少子化沒有繼續有勞動力上的再生產是一件多麼可怕的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11278.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11289.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
大家現在才知道是國安危機所以想盡的辦法說我對你們好一點請大家多多的聲譽其實女人的生產女人的生產是國家勞動力在生產 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11294.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11315.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
所以這個是有國家公共利益促進的是國家整體的利益所以再也不要把女人生小孩當成是女人自己的生涯規劃當成是女人自己的事情當成是個別家庭的事情不應該只是這樣子但是呢我們也肯定這一次我們的政府願意從 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11317.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11328.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
不只是生育的這個小孩面的福利而是從職場制度面要來回應少子女化的這一個國安危機那我們也支持產價這個延長但是呢生產涉及的 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11333.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11345.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
不只是產婦上身體的恢復產後的健康新生兒的照顧還有這個家庭適應所以這一個生產的過程不應該把它理解是跟一般的這個價一樣在這種狀況裡面呢我們看到你我要討論的是產價8週增加為12週 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11354.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11375.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
以外的就是賠產價那我們知道賠產價還要加上賠產減價我們是放在一起的嘛那看起來好像從7天變成14天增加很多那你們說啊多出來這7天啊我們顧主先給付以後來跟政府這個申請補助但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11376.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11385.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
我們現在講增加這7天只有這7天真的足以支持產後初期的共同照顧嗎那在這裡我們要講說這個14天是不是足夠我們就要回頭檢討配偶在孕期陪伴產檢 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11397.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11422.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
這14天是產前產後共用如果你在產前要陪我們的太太陪這個辛苦的孕婦孕期就要陪伴產檢如果你照顧的周詳一點然後陪伴的多一點那麼他會壓縮到產後產出之後的這個共同照顧的額度所以這是14天啊你無論 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11424.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11427.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
生產前周到生產後就不周到生產後要周到生產前就不周到老實說啦所以我們現在講說在這個增加裡面你看你這個產價從56天增加到84天但是配偶的賠產減價 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11447.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11456.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
只有增加14天所以他的本來的這個賠產價的比例是4比1天修法以後是6比1啊你知道84比上14是6比1本來56比上7是4比1所以我們在看這個比例來看是 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11469.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11473.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
不夠啦 不要說倒退啦 是不夠的所以在這裡要支持的是說產價延長有必要 但是賠產減價更要延長我們要講說年輕人不敢生不敢養不是因為只有錢不夠因為時間不夠 因為照顧支持不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11491.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11516.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
所以聯合國的人口基金會執行長他曾經說許多人無法組建他們想要的家庭問題是在於缺少選擇而不是有沒有意願而已這個才是真正的生育危機現在修法的方向家庭內部的照顧責任仍然會落在女性身上啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11516.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11540.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
女性在已經高度參與職場但懷孕生產育兒和家庭管理仍然還是被視為是女性的主要責任這會形成雙重負擔也會影響女性在職涯收入升遷和生育之間要逼女人在生養小孩工作職涯上還是要做選擇就回到聯合國這個人口基金會所說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11544.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11566.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
其實是缺少選擇被迫選擇才是真正的生育危機而不是有沒有意願如果我不需要做選擇我都絕對有意願所以不是意不意願有沒有想生小孩是不要讓我們被迫選擇而今天在這裡我們講這個是因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11567.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11581.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
如果你的修法以後產假12週配偶14天2週很可能在家庭分工上從小孩出生的第一天開始就開始固定了固定什麼媽媽主責爸爸協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11585.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11594.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
這不利於建立共同的雙親共同照顧的分配也不利於降低女性在職場上的母職懲罰那為什麼我們要講務實一點好 這是理論啊 那務實一點的來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11599.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11620.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
如果你跟日本韓國都不要跟歐洲美國比啦跟日本韓國都是低生育率壓力很大的少子化的國家台灣的14天更顯不足日本已經設有出生時育兒休業就是產後育嬰假但是原則上他們還有純粹的陪產假 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11623.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11643.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
就是父親可以在孩子出生8週內取得合計4週28天的育兒休業不是出生時的那個產後育嬰假是純粹的陪產假而且他可以分兩次取得所以一共28天不是一般的育嬰假他是純粹陪產假28天韓國 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11648.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11663.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
韓國從去年開始配偶的賠產假從10天提高到20天延長為20日所以韓國是僱主要給他20日的有薪假而且可以在孩子出生後 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11664.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11686.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
20天內使用120天也就是說鄰近的國家日本韓國已經把男性從短暫的陪伴者變成往逐漸的往實際的照顧者的方向在推進所以在這裡我們如果14天是日本的一半日本28天打5折如果我們只有14天是韓國打7折 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11690.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11695.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
所以在冊子裡我們提出一個至少我的版本是賠產假至少18天至少18天有意思是說因為賠產檢 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11701.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11726.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
也很重要現在大家這個陪產檢這些爸爸他們都被迫怎麼樣你知道嗎現行就被迫只能選擇晚上下班以後週末結果週末變成最熱門排隊要等著看不曉得看到幾點早上要陪到等到下午然後晚上要等到半夜甚至有人要請特休去陪產檢 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11728.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11751.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
所以這個制度的設計沒有辦法鼓勵配偶從孕期到產後持續參與而是讓孕期參與跟產後照顧在同一個額度裡面相互排擠那在這種狀況下孩子剛出生的時候正是家庭照顧分工行程的時候最重要的就是孩子出生後最初幾週 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11752.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11769.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
不只是產婦的身體恢復期也是家庭照顧分工逐漸形成的時候誰請假誰照顧誰處理夜間未來就醫作息調整和家務安排都會在這個階段分工形成而且會固定下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11774.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11788.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
然後媽媽 媽媽12週 賠產和產檢2週很容易這個家庭的分工就是從小孩出生的第一天就形成媽媽主責配偶協助所以部長 14天變成18天可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11790.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11813.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
其實但這次我們是原本從7天然後把它做了翻倍我想當然現在大家對天數的討論我覺得我們當然也可以來參考大家的意見然後當然可以來做一些進一步的討論但是的確這個在各個天數上面也會有一些相關的需要考量的部分但是我想這部分我覺得我們是可以來討論了對 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11815.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11839.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
這個就是我一開始一開宗明義就跟你講的你當你把這樣的責任都丟在女人身上丟在媽媽身上當媽媽跟女人再也不想生的時候你就會知道你就會知道善待女性啊善待女性是多麼的重要那對女人來講就很簡單照顧了責任的分工 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11840.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11845.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
不可以不應該是這樣子我一個人蠟燭兩頭燒不應該是這樣子當法律給女性較長的照顧時間卻只給配偶較短的陪伴時間職場也會跟著預期女性才是這主要的育兒的這個角色 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11859.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11876.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
而男性就是我很快就要回到工作崗位了所以這種我們都知道從社會學的角度來看照顧責任的分工模式不會是自然形成的就是被文化制約被制度被職場跟家庭期待共同塑造出來的所以在這裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11877.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11898.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
我們是說14天真的不夠 我們提高到18天我也並不是認為18天就足夠 我不認為18天是最終的目標但這是這次修法至少應該達到的基本門檻但中長期對照日本的四周 韓國的20天我們也希望逐步要往更完整 更實質的配偶的產後照顧價來 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11902.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11916.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
來前進啦那更何況呢我們現在的產檢假七天第二個我就跟你講產檢假七天女人現在國健署補助了這個公費產檢幾次你知道嗎他增加到14次 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11922.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11937.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
然後每一次第一次產檢四周產檢一次第一次產檢開始四周產檢一次然後這樣子七天那等於是14次七天那每次都要四個小時你知道很多鄉鎮連婦產科都沒有很多鄉鎮的婦女她必須週車勞頓到大都市裡面去做產檢光是交通往返然後排隊 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11946.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11962.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
其實他就浪費掉了他的一天了一天了對很多女性來講很困難而且現在台灣女性生育率第一胎平均年齡31.84歲台北第一胎更接近34歲所以很多自費 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11963.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11986.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
進行的產檢檢查項目大家因為高齡孕婦高齡所以都覺得怕這個基因卵子退化基因變化所以這種狀況裡面我們要講是說其實很多的產檢增加了很多自費的項目大家都想要而這些女人而我們這些女人她們真的需要再增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
11987.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
11992.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
足夠的產檢的天數所以我們認為產檢的天數也應該要一併檢討可以嗎我想到時候我們來一併討論那18天可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12003.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12006.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
有沒有機會 賠產減價我們來做進一步的討論希望會是好的 正向的回應 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12018.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12044.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
好謝謝林淑芬委員發言那還是要跟因為剛剛早上外圍委員沒在這邊還是要跟道場委員說明今天下午本委員會有另安排了勞動部的那個預算審查的議程所以為了避免下午的議程的進行等一下我們還是會嚴格管控外圍是4加1分鐘所以請如果有沒有辦法答覆完畢的話那就請部會會後到你們辦公室去做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12046.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12055.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
待會在黃秀芳委員詢答完畢後 我們就休息用餐到下午一點繼續開會 接下來請廖先祥委員發言謝謝主席 麻煩邀請洪部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12072.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12100.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
部長您好這個女性在生產不只在分娩之後不只小孩子出生之後其實在被孕的過程中也都是非常的辛苦我想這應該是一個客觀不容忽視的一個事實那我知道我們勞動部最近有放寬家庭幫傭的申請的門檻也就是一名12歲以下就可以申請了跟過去比是有比較放鬆的但是過去在討論這件事情的時候或是過去在評分的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12102.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12105.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
常常都是小孩子出生之後才能夠算分嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12108.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12132.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
應該是小孩出生之後才能夠算分也就是說媽媽在懷孕之後她其實在她的不適的一個過程當中相對應起來她的不適並沒有辦法在這個點數上面去做加分或者說就算現在只有一名12歲以下的她也都必須要等小孩子出生之後她才有辦法申請那相關申請的程序大概最起碼要兩三個月以後那也就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12134.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12153.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
媽媽在剛剛小孩子出生的時候是最忙的時候這段時間她反而沒有辦法去申請家庭幫傭外籍勧傭來減輕自己的負擔所以我今天想跟部長討論就是這件事情有沒有辦法去做調整我的建議是能不能在可能在媽媽已經拿到了寶寶手冊之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12154.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12162.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
那它就可以比照它就是有一名12歲以下的小孩子去計算相關的點數不曉得這樣有沒有可行性或是說你們當初有沒有討論過為什麼沒有這麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12165.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12187.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
跟委員說明第一個其實當初其實在設計這個制度的時候比方就像大家其實很多前面委員提到的他如果在生產的過程中或者是剛產後這個時間其實在製作上面其實有給予他像產價是有給他像產價這樣子的一個恢復期的去做相關的應用了那我們並沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12190.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12195.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
預設說今天這個一個家庭家務裡面所有的事情全未來絕對都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12196.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12221.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
不只媽媽 父親也要負擔嘛那父親也是要照顧媽媽嘛都是丟給這個外籍幫傭去處理就是說他從他生產開始然後等等等其實相關的家務的負擔都是給所以我勞動部在上面寫說他是多一個選擇並不是強制每個人都要去請嘛對不對就是多一個選擇有需要的人他就會來做申請嘛那你講說或許有些人他不需要或者說他自己能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12223.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12237.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
負荷的來家庭工作分配的來那他就沒有這個需要嘛不是說我不是說他需要或不需要是在他生產的階段會有其他的制度來去支撐他在生產階段的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12237.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12254.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
但不是只有說好像所有東西我們都是期待只有透過幫傭來去處理沒有當然不是只有他嘛而是說有需要的人對所以有需要的人所以那我們也沒辦法在女性在懷孕的時候不是的時候好不要說不要說這個可能這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12255.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12282.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
媽媽手冊拿到之後那可能最晚三個月再嫁的感覺可能五個月你覺得這個時間五個月到生產這個時間比較久一點我們有沒有辦法讓他們提前去申請讓他在小孩子現在的制度是你出生了之後報戶口之後他才有辦法去申請我們有辦法讓他去提前提前去做申請那當然在他一出生的時候那馬上資格就有了就可以趕快進來現在的規定大概兩到三個月應該是沒錯嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12285.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12302.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
我們讓小孩子一出生之後有需要的在他們最需要的時候就讓他們進來我們接下來也會把其實相關的程序給簡化啦那這些程序的簡化應該也有助於其實可能可以申請到的時間可以縮短對我就希望這個目標就是媽媽在剛出生的時候在小孩子剛出生的時候是最手忙腳亂的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12305.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12314.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
有當過家長的應該都知道最手忙腳亂的時候有沒有辦法在他一這樣子出來的時候就給他們一些幫助有需要的人就提早給他們幫助 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12316.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12333.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
對 我覺得這可能要再研議要研究一下再思考一下我不是說一定要照我剛剛的建議說這個媽媽手冊出來就可以申請我不是這個意思而是說希望部長正視到小孩子剛出生的時候是媽媽跟爸爸最手忙腳亂的時候如果他們有這個需要的時候我們給他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12334.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12346.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
申請上面的一些便利最好是在分免前就能夠申請讓他們在一出生的時候就能夠有一個人能夠幫助他們不曉得這樣子一個方向部長認不認同我們可能這要研究一下好沒關係那 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12348.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12368.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
我當做你的研究是認真的會去研究吧會去認真的研究吧研究當然我們要去做一些研究那看多久的時候可以有一個初步的一個評估兩個月吧兩個月的時間好那我就等兩個月的時候請部長多多的討論那我講的問題也希望您能夠正式以上謝謝謝謝我們的廖憲祥委員的配合謝謝接下來請張雅玲委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12386.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12388.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
謝謝主席 有請部長有請紅部長好 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12393.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12419.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
謝謝部長好那我想最近大家對於這個家庭支持的一系列的方案呢包括不管是彈性工時或者是我們這個育兒假現在是要延長到6歲或是到0到18歲的一些相關政策我想大家都知道普遍社會蠻多家長都是很支持的那我也得到不錯的回饋那接下來呢我就想要再來跟部長來請教就是說我們現在是延長育兒假到6歲 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12420.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12449.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
但我還是我一貫的主張就是希望可以延長到12歲最主要是說我還是認為在6歲以後的小孩他還是沒有辦法獨立在家他生病的時候家長還是要照顧所以這個育兒假的狀況其實對於小學生的家長也還是非常非常需要的特別是在兒少法裡面我們的兒童也是12歲以下那這個所以我想要問一下就是說現在我們第一階段是延長到6歲那未來有沒有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12450.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12463.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
在評估一年之後上路一年之後再來去評估說再來延長呢跟文說明其實我們其實現在我們說是都到0到6歲可是實際上面是可以到未滿7歲 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12465.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12484.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
其實可以到未滿7歲那我們之前我們其實也勞動部其實也做了一些調查那不管是我們去詢問包括企業也包括受僱者那我們大概看到其實收到來的回饋需求最高的大概是到我知道我看過那份報告需求最高是到6歲然後大概到 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12484.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12505.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
未滿7歲還是有一些那當然未滿8歲就大幅降低所以我們其實當初會定之所以到未滿7歲有一個原因其實是基於這份報告的實證那當然我覺得我們是希望說先能夠我們現在設定未滿7歲是透過這份的報告的內容來去做設計的 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12506.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12533.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
那当然我们是希望说能够尽快的来修法通过那当然未来是不是有更多其他的需求我觉得我们当然也可以都在考虑可是我们是希望这个制度可以先用这个目前的这个需求的样态先来往前走那我的意思就是说因为我的诉求就是说我们还是需要看到六岁到十二岁这段家长的辛苦所以我的诉求其实就是上路一年之后我们是不是可以来到时候有一个研究方案吧或者是来延长有机会 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12534.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12551.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
持續的來觀察那再來另外一個問題就是說我們現在呢其實產價有延長到12週那我不曉得說因為有一些團體也是會擔心說這可能對於未來職場在聘僱女性的時候會擔心可能會因為她這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12552.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12578.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
產假很長會不會增加而且他這個生育後離開職場時間也變長就比較不願意招募女性那我不曉得說現在部長跟企業在談的時候或是現場的時候有沒有一些因應的做法這樣子各位說明我們還是要來說我們為什麼這麼重視男性在談性暈假裡面的參與比方說在5月的數據裡面男性請單日的談性暈假的比例已經超過女性了 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12580.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12605.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
對當這件事情發生的時候意思是其實在職場上面會來使用相關的價別去承擔育兒責任的不是只有女性了男性也會所以我的意思是說我們希望能夠讓更多的男性可以參與比方說現在的育兒價單日的育兒價他可以申請以後其實這個就比較能夠我們認為比較就能夠緩解這個隱性的 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12606.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12618.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
對於育齡女性歧視的狀況就是說因為團體現在擔心啦那我現在其實只是希望說部長是不是也可以藉此來說明就是說其實企業你們談的時候目前似乎上面大家其實蠻正向的 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12619.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12647.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
其實我跟文說沒有其實我們在跟企業談其實有些企業觀念走比較前面也有一些企業觀念比較沒那麼前面但我們都其實都會需要花蠻多力氣去跟大家去做溝通甚至我們也跟企業說其實大家把友善育兒的措施給做好這也有助於企業的流財跟攬財其實也有助於大家緩解可能大家現在遇到人力上面的問題我們在做各種情形的溝通可是因為企業的樣態真的很多沒錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12648.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12670.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
行业别也很多所以其实这个沟通其实从我们在制度推出前有找企业有找HR来讨论那我觉得在这之后包括在这立法的阶段我们会要持续的跟企业讨论对我想这个其实是一个提醒就是说未来我们一定会有一些企业的状况百种那劳动部要因不同种企业提出一些说法或是一些对 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12672.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12696.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
可能讓他們更了解這個政策的好處是什麼這樣才有可能讓真正的每一個家長都有機會用得到那最後一個我簡單問一下就是說其實因為我自己是訴求說把我們的產價跟賠償減價都變成是生產照顧價因為讓這個過去只是比較功能性的一個價別變成是走到家庭支持系統也比較符合這一次的整體的概念那我不曉得說部長您對這件事情的想法是 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12696.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12724.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
我跟委員說明 其實我們有看了一下民間團體的訴求基本上他們是 大家希望說過去包括產價培產價基本上他會主要是設定在醫療院所才能夠去使用的部分那接下來我們已經跟我們同仁討論了我們會透過解釋令的方式讓這些價別可以使用的範圍更廣比方說如果有相關的課程諮詢這些的部分都可以來去適用的好 那這個詳細的說明也提供給我們好 沒問題 謝謝好 謝謝張雅玲委員發言接下來請楊耀委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12734.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12736.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
謝謝主席 主席請教洪部長有請洪部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12742.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12765.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
部長好部長 總統府最近公布了台灣人口對策新戰略這個對於台灣整體來講是一件非常重要的事情因為我們掃紙化因應談了好幾年大概就這一次有了具體的戰略方向出來這個算是執政黨做了一項對台灣非常 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12770.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12793.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
有貢獻的事情可是呢戰略方向定了還是有一些問題要跟部長來做一下有關勞工的部分部分的事項跟部長做一下探討就在行政院所提的修法草案多數措施都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12795.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
12822.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
請領人數跟給付期間增加就是有關臺灣人口新戰略的部分我看涉及到你勞動部的部分大概有育兒留職津貼延長到9個月然後育兒假跟育兒留職挺薪延長到6歲產假、陪產假的延長等等總共有9項 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
12823.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
12850.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
那在行政院所提的修法草案裡面多數措施都是勤領人數跟給付的期間增加也就是說可以預期日後的支出一定會增加那請教一下部長就是修法後上述的年度增加支出大概是多少你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
12851.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
12871.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
其實我們目前提出來的計畫尤其跟勞動部有關的部分我們包括公務預算加上基金公務預算加基金目前是跟行政院爭取200億每年每年要增加200億我目前爭取200億 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
12874.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
12901.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
因為財政收支劃分法也修正了那中央預算也大幅縮水那勞動部除了增加這200億以外你們怎麼確保其他的政務推動不受影響你懂我的意思嗎這部分我們當然有跟組總確認所以因為當然這幾年其實台灣包括GDP包括科技業的發展其實稅收上確實是有些斬貨 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
12902.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
12917.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
所以我們在這些稅收上的掌握我們也覺得包括整個執政的團隊行政人員也覺得應該要多讓這些科技的紅利多用在勞工身上那我們其實是基於這樣子的想法跟念頭所以覺得說我們盡量在公運算裡面來去多做這樣的爭取 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
12921.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
12936.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
請部長記得剛才講的話,我覺得你的觀念是很對全民的紅利,其實我覺得弱勢的勞工真的優先享受我向來是反對普發一萬、兩萬、三萬的,應該要把錢做勢 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
12945.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
12960.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
正義性的分配不是表面上的我們很希望現在真的是這個科技的紅利那能夠變成是勞工的富利啦這個勞工的富利是說其實有挹注而且這個挹注對勞工來說 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
12962 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
12983.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
他又有能夠持續產生好處的效果比方說他協助了勞工在育兒上面的需求那這育兒上面的需求又能帶來台灣在整個社會發展上面的好處而不是只是花一次就沒了講到紅利我這邊插播一下就是部長勞動基金在四月份 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
12985.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
12991.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
獲利了1.1兆這個數據是對的嗎?是這個對於廣大的勞工來講算是最少對於基金的水庫 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13001.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13018.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
是一項很大的益助有幫助一定有幫助雖然我們3月份也虧了3800億那當然基金的操作有賺有賠我看一下我們今年的公務預算撥補是1300億 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13022.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13041.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
是不是?1300億那也就是說我們假如說除了剛剛部長講的經濟的紅利可以照顧到一般的勞工那我們基金的運作假如也可以參與整個股市的紅利 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13042.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13065.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
那對於勞工來講是雙重的保障那股市呢有起有落股市投資有賺有賠我希望部長能夠記住一個原則就是過去很常在股市崩盤的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13068.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13092.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
基金互盤我希望部長能夠堅持一個原則假如說我們是看好它跌下來還會再往上漲那當然在基金運作上本來就應該要逢低買進可是不要有互盤的概念 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13093.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13118.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
我一直很反對前投資人賺走了然後崩盤的時候罵政府這個非常的畸形根本說明我們基本上基金的操作都是由我們的運用級的專業操作那我覺得最重要的就是操作這專業是最重要的原則那各種的操作我們都希望因為這個基金是來自於勞工 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13120.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13145.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
繳出來的 勞工拿出來的這其實很多都是勞工的錢所以要以勞工的利益為最優先的考慮我剛才講的就是說你們在保管跟運用勞工的基金唯一的政策目的就是保障勞工並不在保障股市的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13147.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13163.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
這個跟我們以基金投入股市獲利是兩件事我希望部長跟部裡面的所有相關人員要有這個概念我們等於說這一筆基金其實我們只是代管而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13163.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13176.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
我們只是代管而已 我們不應該把它用在用在跟基金充裕勞工退休以後生活無關的政策的政策上是對嘛齁對欸這個 這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13181.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13200.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
我在這邊就是不怕死啦因為廣大的投資人大概過去幾次股市的起落就是一跌下來就希望政府的基金進去護盤我覺得這個也違背自由經濟的 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13201.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13215.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
的本質啦所以請部長記得我們插播這一段講太久了我最後問一個問題這很重要很重要的插播這個確實很重要部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13222.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13245.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
就業保險法修正第19條之3的立法說明有明確指出考量政府推動相關少子化對策措施可能有育兒留職停薪津貼的保險支出增加支出會增加那導致費率超過現行的保險費率這個問題你們會怎麼因應 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13250.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13269.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
因為其實舊保還是一個社會保險那舊保的財務其實是來自於這個政府所定的費率然後繳交出來的所以其實舊保的支出也不能夠無限制的支出我覺得最核心的無限制支出可是當然就像今天大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13270.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13298.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
我們也有很多委員其實對舊保的舊保經營的支出會有很多的期待那我們當然盡量的來去做某些考慮可是大家過了假設過了某些平衡費率的時候可能就有兩種選擇一種選擇是你要嘛就要提高費率那或者是可能就變成是要有其他的財源能夠挹注所以剛剛這個條文其實出於的就是它是一個德就是說你要嘛如果在費率檢討的時候變成是要 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13299.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13327.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
調整費率或者是可以由其他的這個財源來去做綠注各位我請各位報告我們這一次的6加3的條文我們都會在兼顧我們救保基金的財務跟政府的財政的可負擔之下來之一目前沒有要朝著調整費率的方向來處理那我講一個觀念就是政府財政 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13328.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13348.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
預注這個都是短期的而且這個是脫離保險整體概念的東西保險的整體概念就是收多少值多少這個才是正常的長久的方向當然短期間之內政府的裁員夠政府預注我並不反對 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13349.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13369.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
可是呢,費率適當的調高,這個可能是,反而是讓保險可以永續發展存在的重要觀念。跟姚文說明,我等一下講一下你的意思。但目前的確,我們現在是沒有要調整費率的打算。我也沒有說一定要調。 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13370.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13391.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
目前沒有,那我們會盡力的來維持包括這個社會保險尤其救保基金的財務的狀況跟他的穩健跟他的健康這部分我們會盡力來維持那就目前救保整體的基金的財務狀況還算是穩健的情況所以我們是在這個穩健的情況下面去做各種去應用上面可能的評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13392.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13413.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
那我也另外再講我的觀念就是說應該調整保險費率讓保險健全發展的時候其實我們也可以從比例分擔的部分因為政府本來就有準備錢要挹注嘛政府現在負擔一成 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13414.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13439.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
可以提高政府的負擔的比例然後雖然費率是提高了可是因為政府負擔的比例譬如說從一層調高到兩層三層那勞工跟僱主各相對應負擔的比例就低了這個不是結論只是說這個也是一個思考方向謝謝部長謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13443.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13450.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
好 謝謝楊耀委員的發言接下來請黃秀芳委員發言等黃秀芳委員質詢完畢之後我們就休息謝謝主席 我們請部長有請洪部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13462.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13489.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
部長好部長我想請教就是說我們在那個公共政策網路參與平台上面在5月25號有一則就是這個喝熱水就好取消生理假學校職場都一樣那這個理由他寫的理由有包含生理期只有幾天而已那其實不會痛那即便稍微痛喝熱開水即可緩解 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13491.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13511.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
那我想請教就是說部長你知不知道在這個公共政策的這個網路平台當中其實這個主管機關應該是國發會啦是嗎是那這個公共政策平台上面涉及這個歧視那還有違法的一個提議那我想說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13514.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13541.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
公共政策網路參與平台應該會有一個這個檢核的一個機制那有涉及這個歧視或違法的這樣的一個言語或這樣的提議應該在這個檢核過程當中應該可能就不會在這個網路上面讓大家這個連署所以我想請教就是說部長針對這個我們今天在討論是性別平等工作法那他也違反了這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13543.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13556.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
這個歧視然後也違法的這個狀況那我想請教部長你有什麼樣的看法就委員現在說的這個例子我想這樣的想法確實是欠缺性平的敏感度的 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13559.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13579.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
因為你們是這個性別平等工作法的這個主管機關就是說任何一個單位有違反這個性別平等工作法的這個相關規定的話其實你們是主管機關那針對這部分其實我是不是也可以請你們跟國發會就是說在這個網站上面應該是讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13581.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13594.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
當然就是說讓更多人能夠來參與公共事務可是在這個平台上面如果是充滿著歧視或違法的這樣的一個言語的話那是不是這個勞動部這邊也可以跟國發會這邊可以做一些檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13596.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13610.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
根本說沒有的確現在在這個國發會的這個這個平台上面公共政策的這個平台上面目前是由國發會來管的所以我們的確就勞募權限沒有直接能夠去去做這部分審核的權限 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13611.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13631.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
但是我們願意來跟國發會來討論一下那類似的狀況那是不是有一些其他處理的做法可是的確因為國發會這個平台他其實是一個意見收集的平台那這可能還是要來跟國發討論一下他在處理相關類型意見的時候他的政策或者他的原則是什麼這邊我有點難帶他回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13633.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13645.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
那我們是希望就是說這個有關這樣的類似的一個提議的話其實我也希望就是說勞動部跟國發會這邊應該要有一個既然有一個檢核的機制那應該勞動部這邊應該也要針對這一部分應該跟國發會這邊來做一個討論未來有類似這樣的一個狀況那可以用什麼樣的方式來處理好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13657.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13678.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
接下來我想請教部長我們看到這個虎航就是我們台灣飯工股的虎航在前陣子桃園市空服員職業工會他們有陪當事人這個當事人他是一個空姐 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13679.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13699.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
她就是懷孕 那懷孕之後 這個虎航他們的規定就是說空服員只要一懷孕就立刻強迫留職停薪那連轉調這個遞請的機會都沒有給所以會讓這個孕媽咪這個剛懷孕然後就被迫留職停薪 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13700.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13720.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
所以我看到後續桃園市的空服員職業工會也有陪當事人爭取權益桃園市政府性評會也有直接認證虎航是懷孕歧視懷孕歧視成立違反性別平等工作法 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13720.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
13735.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
那這個部分我想請教部長就是說桃園市政府這個性評會他有認定虎航懷孕歧視成立那也違反性別平等工作法所以虎航是就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
13736.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
13754.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
不應該立刻把這個員工就是強制留職停薪那他這個留職停薪沒有領的這個薪水是不是就是受到影響了嗎那這個員工在這段期間的這個獎金或者是薪水是不是要通通如實的這個計算還給這個空服員我請我們市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
13758.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
13776.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
根文報告像類似這樣的案子其實員工受到的損害是屬於一個權力事項是那我們現在整個法制面上面的這個權力事項的究極途徑地方政府會協助當事人如果他透過行政調解針對他所遭受積欠的相關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
13777.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
13786.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
剛剛委員提到的不論是工資或者是相關損害賠償的部分在行政調解部分處理那如果行政調解部分雙方沒有辦法達成一個結果的話進到依照勞動事件法進到訴訟我們會有法律輔助好 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
13792.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
13819.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
那我也看到虎航在這三年當中就是總共有13筆是違反勞基法還有性別平等工作法那在今年就在今年當中就有8件就是今年採儲的那我看到就是說在這個上個禮拜台灣虎航他們開股東會的時候他們就是自己覺得說他們今年的這個收 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
13821.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
13848.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
這個成長就是整個這個收益然後整個載客率都比以往還要高那他們自以為要就是說這個虎航就是優化勞動條件所以這個進行航線全面檢討那優化勞動條件可是我們看到就是說在這今年當中在這半年當中就虎航就有八件是違反這個勞基法或者是性別平等工作法 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
13849.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
13867.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
所以我覺得說這個虎航確實他是犯官股那如果是這樣子的話他收益越多然後他就是罰不怕嘛我看到他整個被這個桃園市政府罰還有30萬有15萬也有5萬那零零總總加起來總共有13件 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
13872.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
13897.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
總共有13件在這三年當中13件那在這一年當中就有8件所以像這樣子的一個這樣的一個上市公司而且是販官股的公司那既然就是說對於勞動部或者是我們這邊的一些法規都不遵守所以我想請教就是說像這樣子的話勞動部你們有什麼樣因應的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
13898.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
13926.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
跟委員報告我們大概幾個面向第一個是委員大概可以看到我們違法系統上面其實虎航像這種連續法或者是他其實違法情勢嚴重的地方政府的確就依著這個加重裁罰的相關的部分進行裁罰那當然我們也跟地方政府有聯繫大家都有一致的一致性的做法就是類似有違法事業單位我們在做教育訓練的時候他就務必要參加 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
13927.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
13929.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
那是誰參加公司違法的事業單位他一定要派代表參加他就罰不怕啊如果罰得怕的話他會這樣子一年當中就連續這樣子罰然後違反勞動條件或者是違反性別平等工作法 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
13946.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
13962.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
那因為同步其實讓他知道他違法提升他的法尊這是一塊那另外我們也會跟他的目的世界主管機關交通部跟他提到說這樣的一個這個他的違法類型違法太陽在目的世界主管機關跟我們勞動部一起協力 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
13963.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
13970.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
那你們現在有針對這一部分有做什麼樣的處理嗎我們其實已經首先先請地方政府針對這個該公司他的違法情勢的部分特別輔導讓他這個違法的部分去教他說其實工資應該怎麼計算工時應該要怎麼怎麼處理那性別的 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
13984.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14003.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
競評法的部分應該怎麼改善這個部分地方政府其實有在做是那我們後續會跟那個目的事業主管機關請他們也跟我們勞動部一起去協助這家事業單位要這個事法辦理員工權益事項好我覺得針對這樣的一個上市公司而且又犯關股的這樣的一個公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14004.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14025.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
既然是法律無誤啦所以我覺得說勞動部針對這部分我覺得應該也要再加強啦既然都是這個犯官股那你針對我們現在我們在討論的這個性別平等工作法或勞基法他都不遵守的話那你拿他也沒辦法反正他就罰錢罰錢也不怕 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14028.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14055.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
跟委員說明我想就像委員說的他其實是有犯管股的性質的的確是應該要更進一步的有更多的責任要來遵守政府的法律我們會來跟虎航來做更多的討論跟提醒當然如果還是有違法的狀況我想我們就還是會用落實法準的方式來去做裁罰好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14058.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14071.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
好 謝謝黃秀芳委員發言重新更正宣告 待會在洪孟愷委員詢答完畢後休息用餐下午1點10分繼續開會我們請洪孟愷委員好 感謝主席 麻煩勞動部部長有請洪部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14087.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14109.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
好 部長好 兩個問題我就直接來請教因為今天早上也傳出來是說我們勞動部這邊的駕駛有低於最低工資的一個級距沒有是物質 物質好來是 部長所以沒有人拿到物質 部長本身沒有要跟你吵架我現在要討論的是比較深入的問題不要 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14110.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14131.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
碰到就馬上觸動好不好物質是事實好來部長我其實今天就是論事物質就物質物質是事實來好聽一下我本席的問題29220到底是怎麼物質來其實這是本席想要後續來做討論的就是說因為2025年我們最低工資多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14132.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14140.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
2025年28950那2026年我們現在變29500嘛對不對那突然跑出一個29220會讓國人覺得奇怪是說為什麼會在勞動部這樣的一個偵採會出現這樣的一個數字對它就是一個物質所以它就是一個個人物質沒有任何的譬如說數字因為數字不會憑空出現數字不會憑空出現就是同一個物質 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14163.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14180.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
本席希望部長這邊再去了解一下是不是有相關的過去的系統或是相關的報表有這樣的一個狀況是不是還有低於我們的最低工資如果有才去做更正不要勞動部我們社會主管機關來帶頭去做這樣子的一個務職的事件好嗎各位說明來 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14182.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14206.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
你要強調物質就物質好不好沒有任何勞動部聘僱的人員他的薪資是低於最低工資這是我確認的事情本席現在提出來這是一個事實我們現在就事論事本席來問另外一個部分是剛剛的新聞出來了301關稅說要來媒體都已經有報導有沒有掌握美國商務部以強迫勞動為由 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14208.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14217.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
要建議對台灣增加10%的關稅我想請教我們到目前為止到這一個部分強迫勞動我們可以接受嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14218.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14240.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
跟委員說明第一個我剛剛早上我有看到這個標題因為我早上都在備詢我一早都在備詢所以剛剛出來的新聞快報我相信很多人大家都已經看到所以我看到標題但是我還因為我在備詢的過程裡面我還沒有時間能夠很仔細去看它的原文過去到現在到目前為止你可以接受說美國用強迫勞動這樣的理由嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14242.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14260.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
來對於我們你覺得他是一個你是身為勞動部長你覺得他是一個真真正正的理由還是他只是找一個名目因為同時間有那麼多國家我要看我還是要比較仔細的看他發布的內容所以目前還沒有辦法掌握因為第一個因為我今天早上都在備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14261.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14273.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
我剛有看到標題可是這裡面確實要仔細因為這涉及到包括很多國對國之間的這個包括貿易的談判過去談判的時候有沒有被美國講到是說我們有強迫勞動的一個狀況跟文說明的確在ART裡面是有針對強迫勞動的部分進行相關的討論與承諾在ART裡面是有這個主題的 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14290.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14308.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
那我們是不是現在也已經有因為我也看到勞動部也預告要做修法甚至也有很多的團體在做抗議甚至僱主也講是說這樣可能會成本大增但這個就是一個方向如果說我們現在勞動部都已經有預告要修法了結果現在美國還用這個理由來去加增10%那這樣會不會到最後我們變成是兩頭空 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14311.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14339.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
跟委員說明第一個所以想要提出來因為這個涉及國對國之間的事務任何的應對都要非常非常的審慎因為我現在的確我在現在我們還在備詢台上面答詢我還沒有仔細看到裡面的原文我現在整個早上我還沒有時間我等一下可以來了解一下內容也包括我也會跟OTN這邊經貿談判辦公室所以最快速度勞動部可以針對這個事情做什麼樣的一個回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14340.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14356.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
什麼時候來做回應 因為其實不是 部長我先來打問這個機會也感謝昭偉給我之後解這個內容就是不要說休息讓我在休息之前能夠先跟你討論就是因為本席認為這很重要而且當美國講出說我國他等於一竿子打翻譯傳人啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14358.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14376.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
強迫勞動 我覺得對於國際上也不是好的民生也因此我才會講是說利用這個機會請勞動部一定要正視這個問題沒有都應該要好好的正視回應也不能允許美國用這樣子莫須有的罪名拿來當成是我們增加關稅的藉口 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14378.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14398.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
兩點回應第一個勞動部現在我們非常重視國際上面對於防治強迫勞動的討論不管是來自國家或者是來自國際供應鏈因為的確來自國際供應鏈也有相關越來越重視強迫勞動這樣子的關注跟要求我們是非常非常的 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14399.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14421.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
在意也非常關注這樣子的趨勢因為確實沒有處理好的話它可能會變成是我們產業相關的貿易的風險第二個但是在今天這個發布的內容我還要再去針對他們發布內容的細節來去做相關的了解那這個部分的回覆的確從我們的角度從政府的角度要非常審慎 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14422.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14433.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
分析提醒加速作業不要用默序有罪名讓我們增加變成是增加關稅的藉口以上謝謝紅夢凱委員發言我們接下來休息好到時一點十分 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
16473.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
16496.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
好現在繼續開會還是要跟在場的委員說明因為今天下午本委員會有另安排了勞動部的預算審查的議程所以為了避免影響下午議程的進行所以請各位委員在發言時務必遵守發言時間請大家體諒跟配合所以五分鐘到外圍五分鐘到的話我們就會一起讓你停著那接下來就會 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
16497.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
16514.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
請我們的部會如果有需要要答覆的話就用書面來做說明 謝謝接下來請我們的李彥秀委員我請部長 有請洪部長李委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
16521.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
16536.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
部長我們的工廠法我們勞基法工廠法在民國60幾年就定了當時的產價就只有8週我非常遺憾我從上任第一屆立法委員一開始的第一年我就提出我們的產價其實遠遠落後日本跟韓國其他國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
16538.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
16550.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
但是不只是我立法院很多未還委員會當時的委員也都提出類似的版本認為產假只有8週是不足的我們要解決少子女化的問題我們要解決產婦憂鬱症的問題我們要讓產婦的身心照顧獲得改善我們應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
16555.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
16571.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
要去做把產價部分做調整但是我非常遺憾就是說從過去的8週這一天我等等我等了9年我們今天終於要去做調整那全台灣婦女也等了9年那我就要請問部長民進黨已經執政邁入第10年從105年到現在不管當時提了10週12週14週甚至還有人提16週這9年這麼多人的版本因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
16580.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
16601.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
政策不會是延續的為什麼今天才覺醒少子女化的威脅要做這樣子的調整那12週到底是依據什麼是跟有醫學的依據因為我看到日韓包括現在包括很多國家其實按照國際的標準都已經到第14週了這個是有國際的標準所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
16603.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
16603.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
跟文說明 第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
16620.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
16646.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
其實確實我們認為8週是不太夠的為什麼等到現在我在第一屆2016年2017年我就當選了我們認為8週是不太夠的所以我們認為應該要延長第二個是其實我們也做了一些相關的請教因為第一個台灣其實是有孕留庭的國家所以我們其實並不是只單看產價的部分而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
16646.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
16655.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
而是其實我們的產價其實它可以是直接銜接運流停的部分所以我們經過在這樣的評估跟權衡裡面我們才設計說從8週延長到12週你的12週是跟運流值停薪連接所以你覺得12週就夠在我看來因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
16664.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
16679.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
其他國家也有育嬰留職停薪的政策所以在我看來我們的十二州就我看來身為一個婦女生過孩子的媽媽來說還有比照日韓其他國家來說我覺得是為德不足要不就一次做到夠過去 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
16681.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
16702.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
這麼多委員提出這麼多的版本很多婦女也都在等待調整我在過去這麼多委員提出的版本為什麼衛福部勞動部都不肯好好去討論今天你們才覺醒覺得這個政策過了但是就我幫所有的女性已經生過小孩或者未來打算生小孩我跟部長報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
16704.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
16721.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
12週仍舊是不夠的我們還是落後日韓其他國家這是第一個我要提出來的因為我們要打造職場的友善環境我覺得就要一次做到足不要留一個尾巴我覺得我們沒有下一個九年可以等畢竟我們現在少子女化是國安不只是國安危機 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
16722.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
16743.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
它是已經是滅國危機我們要讓婦女沒有後顧之憂當然我們現在很多政策要去補足但是我覺得要做這一次要做到足我剛剛替媽媽留住所有的媽媽想準備當媽媽或繼續再當媽第二個小孩 第三個小孩的媽媽我要提出來說怎麼樣真正把這些產假真正請得到 用得到 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
16743.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
16752.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
就是說我們看到有善的環境很多越大的公司反而後面留職就是說再回到職場可以繼續留下來的反而效果其實我們從數據上看到是不好的就是說越大的250個人以上的大公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
16759.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
16783.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
反而就是后续可以停留下来继续就业的反而这是一个不友善的环境所以这个政策怎么去做处理就是规模越大的公司我们反而他就是继续回来上班的反而越来越少所以我们这个有没有相关的政策可以去做后续的处理我们第一个认为可能解读不是这样但是我们认为我们也希望能够让我有数据 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
16784.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
16807.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
我有數據啊但是我就說這個數據他會有後面的解讀嘛那我的意思是說第一個我們還是希望能夠讓更多來申請包括這個包括產價包括育嬰留庭的或育兒接下來的育兒留庭的尤其是女性能夠更多的在請完這些價別以後能夠繼續重回到職場我想這是我們的目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
16807.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
16830.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
所以這是為什麼這是我們大家的目標所以這是為什麼我們也希望能夠讓過去大家會覺得說這個育兒流停只能一次請一個月你的對策是什麼你直接告訴我你的對策是什麼其實我們也讓這個育兒流停他能夠更彈性的來請也就是說他現在是可以以日的方式來清零來回應可能是單日的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
16831.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
16842.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
你還是沒有 對不起我不占用別人的時間但我認為怎麼樣打造職場的友善環境不管今天你們提的12週我提的我希望足到14週怎麼樣讓回到14週產假請完之後他還可以繼續留在職場而不會被 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
16848.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
16874.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
而不會就是一個不友善的環境這個部分我覺得要有相關具體的政策否則很多女性還是會擔心我請到完之後我們基本上其實我們也做了一些研究跟了解其實基本上就是希望他能夠用更彈性的方式讓他去因應需求而不是讓他只能請的長因為請的長的確有可能請越長他回來的機會就會降低關鍵在雇主怎麼想怎麼去處理不是嗎好我們再讓別人時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
16878.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
16878.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
王安祥委員有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
16892.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
16913.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
部長,我非常關注今天的幾個議題,包括性供跟救保的部分。我早上來來去去,因為我現在在其他的委員會。剛剛李委員講到,我覺得非常幸運,過去我們產假8週其實大家努力了很久,因為過去大家的說法上,因為後面有所謂的留庭制度, |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
16914.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
16934.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
不過我很開心,我來了以後就提了一個產價希望能夠延長到10個月,就10週我看你們你主張是10週是是,我想這邊很快就變成12週了那當然我後面,後段的部分我們希望現在應該叫育兒留庭,以前育嬰留庭我們是希望能夠拉到9個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
16936.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
16960.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
不過現在看到這個部的版本就是6加3嘛就兩個都請完我就是透過這個十九條之三我覺得也很不錯不過接下來可能就要逐條有幾個問題我想請教就教一下部長第一個就是那個我看到那個勞動部的版本的十九條之二那基本上好像還是停留在六成因為現在兩成是透過補助的方式我不曉得這次為什麼不把它一步到位直接改成八成就好 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
16960.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
16989.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
呃跟委員說明了第一個因為他當然是我想委員很清楚這是社會保險啊好那尤其是救保他其實原本設計的主體他其實平常是在處理就業跟失業的問題是那因為我們的失業給付其實也是六成對好所以我們也覺得說呃今天在失業當失業給付是六成的時候是這個月流頂或月流頂的部分其實嗯在這個之間的橫評上面啊尤其是從基金出的部分裡面不應該去超過是 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
16990.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
17009.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
因為制度設計的原初最重要的目的其實是就業促進跟處理失業的問題所以我們還是讓它是留在六成但是那個兩成的部分我們還是會公務預算來補滿所以是八成是不會變的八成不會變這政策上面是絕對不會變的 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
17010.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
17025.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
OK好那第二個就是那個部長有宣示說那個電話板會打開嘛那現在45800的話因為現在災保是79800嘛其實可以對照的啦不過看起來好像目前好像說會五萬啦是現在那個精算的結果是不是可以大概跟大家說因為有好幾個級距五萬公里 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
17026.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
17048.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
第一个一样在这就就业保险里面其实他都还有另外一个很重要的是失业给付的部分今天我们也必须要去权衡一件事情是说假如我举个例子我如果在挑板上线如果拉太高的时候是我们也不希望出现说领失业给付的人拿到的薪资比方说高过拿 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
17050.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
17070.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
拿公司的工資對不對就變成說你明明沒有在工作你明明是失業的狀態結果你拿的錢反而比有工作的多所以這個部分也需要去考慮這是為什麼現在基本上我們是希望這一次把它脫鉤以後我們是朝向可能是五萬出頭的角度因為五萬出頭假如就是50600還是5300假設50600的話50600的話它如果你算六成的話大概是三萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
17078.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
17080.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
那3萬跟我們的最低工資其實是差不多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
17081.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
17110.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
所以部長的意思可能就是五萬出頭這樣子比較好對那主要是考慮到失業給付的部分那這部分就會跟災保是不太一樣的了解了解好那另外一個就是今天早上我看到也有其他委員在在在提這個事情那我也到交通委員會去去質詢過了就是有關於這個航空公司他們違反一些勞動法的部分那我想今天應該在性品這邊那早上委員也有提到有些這個現在很多航空公司這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
17111.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
17140.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
就以115年為例現在就有好幾起違反性平的部分可能是第7條或是可能是第21條我不曉得這個我們今天都非常希望就性平的部分不管是不利的待遇或者是希望他能夠請這種所謂的育嬰留庭育兒留庭或是很多產假或是一些新的假期我不曉得現在航空公司他們這個狀況上部長部長看法是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
17142.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
17162.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
第一個是今天早上其實也有委員關注這個議題那我想對我們來說其實很簡單這個法就是在那個地方法在這個地方該守法該遵守法規的就必須遵守法規所以法尊是最基本是因為我在江戶那邊因為我想這個航空公司最重要的就是他們的航權 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
17163.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
17177.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
他們有一個行權分配的綱要,我那時候問他,他們說可以問一下他們是目的世界組織機關,那對於勞動組織機關部長你覺得呢?有沒有可能把違反勞動法的部分納入到他們行權分配的綱要裡面? |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
17180.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
17206.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
當然這個是要看 這是民安局的權限從我們角度來說當然就是在勞動法規的部分必須要遵守對對對 因為我想可能我們有時候覺得財閥30萬覺得一般事業單位可能很多錢不過對航空公司可能還不算什麼所以希望這個建議可以我們再來進一步的討論以上 謝謝好 謝謝王安祥委員的發言接下來請李昆城委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
17214.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
17217.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
謝謝主席 我們請洪部長有請洪部長議員好部長好 辛苦了這次總統跟行政院所端出來這個育兒大禮包我們個人是非常的支持不過也有一些問題未來可能會產生一些問題可能需要 看有沒有需要來做一個調整現在就是我們對於這個微型企業微型企業的一個補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
17243.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
17272.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
那微型企業現在其實是佔我們所有這個全國的中小企業裡面佔的家數非常多查了一下大概有130萬家那130萬家這個5人以下的微型企業那現在就是說我們有一個育兒減工時的方案對不對那育兒減工時的方案就是說你是200人以下那當然就包含這個微型企業你有12歲以下的子女你跟雇主達成合意對 達成合意呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
17272.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
17284.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
申請每日縮減一小時的工時然後薪資照發然後企業如果配合實施的話可以來申請全額的補助嘛 對不對那現在重點在於就是說是合意嘛 對不對因為我們本來在這個性別平等工作法第19條也有規定啦那這個是 那後來我們當然是把這一個把它整個人數把它放寬然後這一個待遇當然也是更好 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
17297.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
17324.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
那其實在本來的第19條規定就是說你如果在這一個30年以上的這個雇主你本來就可以跟這個雇主來這個申請這個調整時間那當然我們現在整個都放寬了那可是現在就是說這個合意啊這個要跟我們的企業主老闆來講就是說這個比如說我要照顧小孩這樣子在這方面的話會不會有一些問題或是說難處理的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
17325.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
17345.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
根本說沒有因為其實因為我們各行各業他的工作安排的樣態其實真的差異很大有一些工作比較容易來做縮減工事但有一些工作比方說排班性的工作輪班性的工作他做縮減工事在他的整個人資的調度的制度裡面他的難度 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
17345.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
17368.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
真的高很多更不用講可能有一些還是中小微企業就像剛剛我現在就是講這個中小微企業這五人以下的企業少掉一個人就是少掉兩次他的難度又再更多所以這是為什麼因為我們現在的性工法19條它其實是一個強制性的條款也就是只要員工舉手說他需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
17371.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
17388.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
顧主是不能拒絕的因為台灣的企業樣態真的很多所以我們目前還是用一個獎勵的方式所以我們的政府的工作是包括我們提供那個減少那個小時的工資的全額補助也包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
17389.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
17407.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
如果要請紙袋津貼的相關的補助每天800塊那我們可以來補我們讓雇主願意同意的門檻盡量降低可是的確在這個階段我們認為還是需要牢固合議的因為我們看其他國家相對應的減少工時的制度其實雇主也是有拒絕的權利的 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
17409.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
17431.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
我的意思是說你現在是200人以下的企業都適用剛才所講的這些不是如果你有小孩12歲以下然後你其實就有可以就在我們的獎勵計劃裡面你就是我們納進來的範圍對啊對他沒有限沒有限企業規模 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
17432.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
17458.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
沒有現企業規模現企業規模是如果你在200以下企業的話我們對於企業會給予一些獎勵設計這個制度的獎勵所以我現在講微型企業嘛就包含在200以下企業我們會給你這些獎勵嘛對不對那可是還是要合一嘛對不對好那我現在意思是說啊能不能提供給我們企業主更大的誘因啊就是說你200以下能不能再區分譬如說我是真的是你200以下可能是中小微都有 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
17459.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
17484.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
那能不能特別針對微型的企業我們再多一些補助讓我們的企業主覺得說就算這個減少了一個小時去帶小孩他的損失比較沒這麼大那也讓這個我們的這個受僱人就是說我要去帶小孩我的我少這個小時那可能對於公司的影響也沒這麼大所以我意思是說分級能不能分級來做個補助啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
17484.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
17508.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
跟委員說明第一個我們可以來思考一下這部分是我們是可以來再做一些更細緻的思考但基本上在執行這個事情的時候在執行這個主題的方案的時候我們沒有要到修法沒有要修性供法19條也就是我們先不往一個強制性的規定去走那是在一個獎勵性的部分我們會覺得比較彈性我也沒有講說這一個一定要這個強制 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
17512.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
17525.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
強制一定要實施就是獎勵性的那我只是說我們用一個急劇的來做一個補助比如說你是在20人在50人20人或是5人這些的這個企業我們是不是用彈性的這個急劇的來補助然後來讓你這個方案能夠這個在實現上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
17530.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
17558.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
更能夠去做實施我們可以來做整體的考慮一下這樣子好就是說如果是按照這個級距來試算一下比如說五人十人二十人之類的因為你是兩百人以下都適用這個規範對不對那我是認為說在五人以下其實這些行業他們的企業主如果給他們更多的補助的話那我認為你這個對於育兒的這個措施會更容易去做實施聽懂了解好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
17560.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
17570.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
好謝謝以坤城委員發言接下來請王宏威委員王宏威委員王宏威委員不在接著請王振旭委員發言謝謝主席有請勞動部部長有請紅部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
17590.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
17605.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
首先非常肯定總統提出的臺灣人口對策新戰略相信在這個擬電的過程裡面部長跟勞動部同仁應該都非常非常的辛苦而且努力來推動這些改善臺灣少殖民化讓臺灣就業環境更友善的政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
17606.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
17623.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
那當然我們很希望那個修法能夠順利的通過不過通過以後未來如何確實的落實是更為重要的事情所以有三個部分要跟部長來討論第一個就是就職貸津貼跟替代人力第二個部分是如何將保障包含在 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
17624.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
17640.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
在職未滿6個月的雙薪還有第三點就是育嬰留領6加3的適用條件跟相關社會保險保費的支持協助這三個部分另外一個部分就是完善職代津貼跟替代人力我們也知道這個津貼的提高還有價格增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
17640.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
17655.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
大家都非常的樂意看到這樣的政策讓客戶少資歷的話困難可以持續的再讓他更改善可是如果能夠讓勞工敢請而且請得到會是政策落實的關鍵 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
17656.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
17671.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
那可不可以請部長還有同仁來說明一下在這個帶子津貼的部分的配套設計的規劃因為我們知道有一些人他不敢請示可能跟企業的雇主壓力、人力考量、資產文化等等的關係包括同產壓力 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
17673.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
17698.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
所以請問一下就是這個裁員預計會從哪裡來執行的具體規劃如果確保申請跟行政上的便利性如果執行起來很不方便的話相對來講他執行性可能性就變少如果確保今天會到協助勞工的手上如果確保這個補充替代人力的充足會不會造成在職勞工的超時如何確保請這個育嬰留庭的勞工 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
17699.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
17716.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
後來回到這個職場的時候還有工作可以做這幾點不知道部長可不可以再做一些說明或者是來請文剛剛提到的是減少工時的部分首先第一個層面就是說現在的性供法第19條就有相關的規定但是因為我們發現說經過我們調查其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
17719.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
17738.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
就如同委員提到的這個敢請的勞工其實比例並沒有很高那通常的原因會是在兩個層面一個是當然雇主他有經營上面成本上面的考量當勞工這個請假的時候他畢竟少了一個勞動力那對於勞工而言還有一個很大的壓力是同事要幫忙他 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
17740.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
17767.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
他減少工時那一小時的工作所以我們這一次的獎勵就從這兩個層面我們讓雇主知道說你同意了勞工其實你的成本是不會增加的因為那一小時的工資這個政府全額補貼那我們也讓這個育兒勞工最大壓力就是讓對面對同事不好意思所以我們對於同事如果有值代的時候其實值代津貼的部分就是值代津貼他其實是工資的一個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
17768.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
17792.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
所以企業如果願意給同事職貸津貼對於同事而言也是一種工資增加的一個正面的獎勵所以在這樣的一個機制下面其實會讓育兒勞工更敢請假因為他對於同事而言其實他的薪資津貼也增加那當然文剛提到的其實避免同事工作時間過長 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
17794.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
17801.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
所以如果育兒勞工他請的假是比較時間比較長的我們也鼓勵企業用替代人力的方式來避免職場上面的同事有過勞的狀況那如果他願意用這個新聘定期勞動契約的替代人力 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
17813.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
17831.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
我們同時也會補貼企業在招募跟訓練上面會多出來的成本行政人力跟成本上面我們也會有一個定額的獎勵目前的規劃大概是這樣子好 我們也希望在申請跟行政上的便利性也能夠讓大家在申請的時候可以非常順利 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
17832.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
17855.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
這部分就麻煩的持續再來加強第二個部分就是這個剛機會跟或這個轉職的雙性也應該有保障那不要讓這個在職的門檻成為這個育兒勞工的職業發展的障礙因為我們了解即使很多年輕的同仁們他們很可能在短時間裡面會有一些轉業轉職的可能性那依照性光法第16條 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
17856.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
17875.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
受雇者任職滿六個月以後才能夠申請這個育兒留職停薪慶功法1641也要在任滿六個月以後才能夠申請這個育兒假所以家長一旦轉職彈性措施就從全有變到全無這個影響真的是非常非常的大所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
17876.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
17896.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
在主條審查之前是不是可以能夠有機會再來評估育兒這個留職停薪育兒假的申請門檻可以透過一些方法來做處理因為我們也知道其實在2014年修法之前已經把一年降到六個月那可是這個六個月還是對一些年輕的 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
17897.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
17919.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
同仁們造成的影響是蠻大的在這方面有沒有機會來針對取消或者是降低或者是做分級的處理企業規模分級來衡量公司的顧慮這部分部長有沒有什麼想法因為可能確實對於很多企業來說還是會需要在你是就像 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
17920.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
17937.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
特休你還是會累積到一個時間點你工作到一個時間點你才可以比較開始有特休的的權利所以其實這個職場的制度通常他都是我們怎麼樣來擴大勞工的權利保障但同時也會要來去設想一些這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
17940.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
17959.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
企業他在運作上面可能怎麼樣的情境通常其實也會想到這些事情那現在當然目前我們還這次還是用六個月那六個月年資滿任職滿六個月以後那可以有這個月價這個請假的權利所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
17963.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
17973.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
但是如果你是轉職的話其實因為你的這個舊保的年資其實是可以互相累積的是並記的是並記的所以轉職的話我想其實沒有太大問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
17975.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
18003.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
我們看一下數據就是說我國生意這個年齡主要是在25到39歲之間那目前也發現年資未滿一年有34萬人一年到三年之間有94萬人也就是說很多年輕的這些同仁們事實上他們很希望有機會追求新的這些職業發展的過程裡面也希望不要讓這個美意因為這樣而受到影響就麻煩部長這邊持續來做了解跟研議 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
18003.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
18029.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
如果轉職的話他的留庭的期間是不會併記的了解是是好那最後就是有關的使用力跟雙照顧同步推進的部分我們也知道這個育嬰留庭的這個時間有30天未來會增加到60天那這個部分真的得到非常好的迴響所以我們可以看到最近貴婦所提供出來訊息5月份的單月男性申請的比重已經所入超過的女性達到50.5% |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
18031.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
18045.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
所以這部分就是有沒有可能針對於這個60天將來有沒有機會再討論再稍微增加 這個可能是一個可能性 第二個就是因應流田斷保人數的比例是不是能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
18047.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
18076.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
補助保費的必要這個部分也希望能夠在主條之前有機會能夠得到這個環境部勞動部這邊給我們一些資訊勞動部繼續勞保這個勞保的人數跟比例讓我們能夠做一個參考那第三點就是目前育嬰留庭雙簽請滿六個月的人數跟比例如果能夠這個比例的話相信我們未來在討論的時候可以更完整 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
18077.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
18077.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
好 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
18079.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
18101.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
這邊先跟我們報告就是剛剛委員提到既然我們育嬰留庭期間雇主的保費我們政府這邊有補貼那勞工的部分我們要不要考慮這個部分那先回歸到在制度設計上面其實補貼雇主我們的用意其實是希望可以降低雇主對於請育嬰留庭的勞動者就業歧視這個隱藏性的這個風險然後讓雇主不會覺得說勞工請育嬰留庭他其實是造成 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
18109.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
18116.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
這個僱主的抗拒或者是隱形歧視那至於勞工的保費的補助因為他的層面不是單單只有僅限受僱者那他其實在多年前這個議題大家也都有討論過 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
18124.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
18138.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
影響的層面會是在這個我有育兒可是我沒有請孕留庭或者是我是一個勞動者可是我是自營作業者那我的保費是不是政府也應該要補貼所以他的層面上面不是單單經費上面我們政府要補貼多少而是他會擴張到其實其他的勞動者在育兒的相關的協助上面是不是要比較辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
18152.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
18177.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
那另外就是在保險的相關的概念上面呢其實目前對於這個保費的補助大概概念上面都是朝向弱勢族群我們會補助所以這個部分的話可能會從社會保險的概念上面可能我們也是一併要考量了解所以才希望說在出條之前能夠收到相關的數據讓我們在討論的時候可以更周全 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
18177.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
18188.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
是因為這個事情當時其實是有討論但是的確舊委員說這個保費的補助確實難度跟挑戰是比較高的好那就麻煩了謝謝部長謝謝王振興委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
18194.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
18212.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
謝一鋒委員 謝一鋒委員 謝一鋒委員不在葉元之委員 葉元之委員 葉元之委員不在張家俊委員 張家俊委員 張家俊委員不在鄭振前委員 鄭振前委員 鄭振前委員不在林倩琦委員 林倩琦委員 林倩琦委員不在黃婕委員 黃婕委員 黃婕委員不在接下來請劉建國委員發言好 謝謝主席 有請部長有請洪部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
18222.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
18245.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
今天時間緊迫部長請快點上週總統公布台灣人口對策的新戰略其中有在回應本席在3月17號在日院總辭去的時候像總院長雲妮從現行的適用未滿3歲月有進一步擴大到6歲前都可以適用這就已經涵蓋上週總統公布18項的措施中 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
18251.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
18264.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
從0-3歲升級到0-6歲並改名為育兒假應該這樣沒有錯嘛對好那彈性的育兒假從今年1月正式散入之後根據勞動部統計申請人數是持續攀升以逼近1.2萬申請比數更衝破到2.4萬那其中5月 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
18268.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
18288.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
的單月男性申請更首度超越女性已經達到50.3%嘛沒有錯嘛這個破除過去的這個育嬰假都是由女性申請的純容刻板印象那也顯示這個政策方向是正確對平衡家庭的分工是有幫助的嘛所以目前育兒假從0到申請要升級2.0版然後成為0至6歲 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
18292.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
18321.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
也因此勞動部有規劃彈性的請假天數從原本30天增加一倍60天雙親都能申請因此合計是120天也沒有錯嘛這看起來很合理但是越想越不對勁因為這不是三年是六年的時間然後在小孩進到小學之前遇到的狀況就是60天的處理所以家長要跟小朋友說約定好了這六年每年生病10天 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
18324.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
18350.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
差不多嘛不能超過不然部長一定會糾正我這雙親都能申請啊所以他可以每年至少有20天所以他可以多一倍生病的時間又沒有錯嘛我們目前天數的設計是這樣沒有錯是啊是是但是我要提醒部長你知道內政部2023年已經公佈台灣的單親家庭突破70萬戶同時有一半 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
18355.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
18377.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
也是35萬的這個弱勢的單親家庭這個當時在規劃這個政策調整這個政策有把這樣的一個樣態把他納入在你整個規劃要提升2.0版的這個預額價嗎有嗎其實可能他是單親家庭但是他可能還是有兩雙方是可以照顧的蛤 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
18381.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
18403.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
單親是父母離異啊那你的可能的意思是你有調查過有盤整過還是我意思是說單親是父母離異可是他那不一定咧不一定啊對,除非他是可能我也是單親家庭長大的小朋友我爸跟我媽不是離異啊我爸是神威顯赫啊得道勝天啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
18405.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
18434.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
你有沒有把 我就想說你有沒有把這個因素納入這個樣態給他納入有不然他 你就這樣你就少60天啊不公平啊不公平嘛 對不對所以就是說我們單純把倍數增加那力量善嘛不過你沒有把這一群思考在這個整個你的新的一個政策力量善政策裡面那顯然這樣就會造成歧視也不公平有這樣的問題存在我只是提醒部長部長要不要思考一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
18435.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
18464.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
而且三十天的育嬰假在三年內或許還可以安排家長還心理上可能還有一些比較的盤算六年你要再叫他預先規劃五年六年的事情這有可能嗎因為草案還沒有正式審查所以我才請部長這邊再思考一下這個彈性育兒假真的是單純增加一倍就好嗎跟委員說明的確當然這個天數的拿捏都還是會但他各種的天數都還是要 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
18465.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
18494.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
做一個評估啦那我們的確這次選擇是說把原本的30天倍增到60天來去做使用那有些人他可能會是在前面用的多後面用的少或有些是前面用的少後面用的多他可以讓他相對是比較您的方向我決定是支持嘛對不對但是我就用剛剛這個例子或許我還有你跟我都還沒有思考到可能還有其他的一些樣態我們沒有思考進去就是簡單講就是可能就是所謂的特殊狀況啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
18494.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
18514.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
那這種措施跟我們怎麼樣的更直接的可以來讓這些的需求者有更大的一個受惠然後也不會造成歧視跟你說嘛最直接的單親家庭他就少一個人分擔六十天了這要怎麼處理這差一倍耶你要給一倍但是對這兩個他就是減一倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
18517.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
18530.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
我是說不要小朋友一出生就父母關係開始出現差異可是的確這個職場的制度其實他常常設置的時候他會有蠻多會需要進一步去考量的地方啦包括勞資之間這種種的 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
18533.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
18553.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
可行性的情境這樣子另外一點就是另外一個角度思考我這一點還是要特別提到不要酸性家庭只有120天單性家庭只有60天這部分我還是要特別請部長再思考一下另外一個如果今天遇到的是遲晚兒的家庭或是有些疾病就單純120天夠嗎這一塊要不要再一併思考一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
18559.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
18588.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
人家吃飯的家庭的爸爸媽媽是非常的還是罕病的小朋友等等諸如此類這種爸爸媽媽尤其是新手爸爸媽媽那是特別的特別挑戰特別辛苦因為制度是要讓國民能夠安生養安心養安心生那制度要再設計我們就應該更想像更多更設計更好的一個制度出來只是這樣做一個提醒好不好可以吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
18589.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
18609.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
我們可以綜合來想一下但的確就是說當把一個天數拉到很多的時候其實我們也會有點擔心比方說他在就業上面會不會遇到一些被標籤化的阻礙其實這邊這幾個但他每個因素都不是絕對的每個因素不是絕對的可是都必須綜合來考慮所以我們說我們來綜合來想 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
18611.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
18634.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
對啦就是希望部長可以綜合多方面的一些考慮跟這樣的一個設計才會讓這個制度更正完善應該是這麼說那我們對這個老公部對新手爸爸媽媽給予很多這個生意政策的支持跟補貼我想我一直講說我支持這個方向不過這個方法可能要在 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
18634.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
18650.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
跟細緻的一些討論跟調整而且我們也不是只有掃除到問題我們同時也面臨到超高齡的問題嘛對不對2025年到現在高齡者不代表不能工作我們在現在醫療技術發達65歲也不是摯愛的據點孫院長當時還2019年那時候是71歲你沒想到拿一支撞球桿全台跑脫脫 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
18662.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].end |
18675.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].text |
這年輕人未必還有辦法像他這樣的一個愧然跟精神所以我們在這邊我們在這邊108年定定的中高齡者及高齡者的就業促進法然後這108年65歲以上的就業是8.29108到現在11410.137年只有增加兩個百分點你不然就這樣成績你接受嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
18688.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].end |
18716.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].text |
跟委員說明其實我們認為還有在進步的空間所以我們今年其實我們也在規劃推出了一個更擴大的55plus的方案那可以讓這個中高齡或尤其是高齡者的就業上面有更多被支持的力道跟空間其實在我們方案裡面其實有在我們5月的時候其實已經上路了因為時間的關係喔我要再提供幾個數據給部長做參考這個民間人力公司在3月份 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
18717.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].end |
18741.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].text |
公布一個調查,45歲以上勞工最擔心的是這個年齡歧視找不到工作就佔了40.2嘛職業被年輕人取代29.3職能不足4.4那工作選擇變少是18.3那其實這個年齡歧視其實就是中高齡者及高齡者最擔憂的一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
18743.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].end |
18760.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].text |
並且有高達59.2的中高年上班族曾表示因為年齡在職場上遭到歧視那具體的狀況又包括這個被告知年齡不符合而不入局又高達62.6遭同事或主事貼標籤30.9優先裁員對象26.5這個部長知道這些數據嗎?有,我沒有看過你沒有看過嗎?我們怎麼因應? |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
18768.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].end |
18788.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].text |
去年新宇航空就因為違反歧視中高齡就業被桃園市政府開罰了30萬中高齡者及高齡者的就業出境在今天已經邁入了超高齡社會那絕對是有必要而且也是方向正確那如果這個就業歧視不解決這整個制度就會原地踏步 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].start |
18789.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].end |
18817.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].text |
跟委員報告首先因為年齡而對於就業上面權有些有些差別對待違反這個就業服務法的這個就業歧視這個當然就裁罰部分我們一定會做那另外我們為了避免企業誤踩紅線所以我們今年針對特別針對中高齡或高齡者遭受到的年齡歧視我們會把相關的判決相關我們認定的太陽把它逐一整理出來然後讓企業知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].start |
18818.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].end |
18836.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].text |
當他做什麼行為的時候會違反到這個法令上面的就業歧視這一點是我們今年會做的好 用案例提醒企業不得所換這些案例的情況不過我今天是要再度提醒勞工部提醒部長跟市長其實我們當時訂這個法的第28條開除民意65歲以上勞工雇主得以 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].start |
18845.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].end |
18859.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].text |
定期勞動契約雇傭資勞基網第九條規定臨時性短期性季節性特定性的工作得以定期契約這個關於臨時短期季節及特定性的工作之定義 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
18861.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].end |
18886.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].text |
又以該法的適應細則第六條這時間關係我就不再追溯,請部長、市長詳閱嘛我是在這來進行精神,其實早就去這個特殊情況才有定期契約不然都是不定期契約嘛,來藉此保障這個勞工權利那結果農作部在中高齡、高齡者的就業促進法中開通名業就允許契約給予這些65歲以上的定期契約 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
18887.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].end |
18911.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].text |
其實這無形間也塑造一個社會形象就是65歲不退休的你就只有能做這些臨時性的工作所以有媒體報導不少倫理英堂都有設置中高齡的專區然後彈性點進這個網頁裡會發現有不少的工作性質都是兼職的啊輪班是以時薪計算有的是半日班等等等就比較屬於刺激的工作了 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].start |
18912.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].end |
18929.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].text |
這個不能再知道了跟委員說明這是我們考慮過那我們也參考了一些其他國家的案例的確我們看到很多國家他在促進中高齡的工作裡面都會朝向讓他的契約制度更加彈性化的方式能夠讓中高齡其實出來參與的機會會再更增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].start |
18933.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].end |
18953.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].text |
所以這是為什麼我們現在在中高齡及高齡者的出行就會發體面其實確實在這裡面是有用一個讓他其實可以用停業的方式就讓他的彈性可以再比這個再多一些這樣子我不否認會有高齡者需要這樣的工時班次的但不是所有高齡者都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].start |
18955.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].end |
18966.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].text |
當然所以你們自己勞動部調查你們自己有調查一個是勞動部調查在113年的時候中高年級高齡者希望的工作室全部公使正式工作的就佔比76.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
18968.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].end |
18991.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].text |
也是希望非典型的工作只有23.83這是你們自己的調查如果以這個調查我們用最快的這樣的一個態度來正視這高齡者不代表他們不行了相反是在這個時代裡面更應該提供健全的職場讓高齡者 中高齡者能持續在職場上獲得自信跟成就而不是說有工作就應該偷笑 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
18993.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].end |
19020.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].text |
所以我要求要求專家學者勞工團體高齡者代表前面檢討中高齡者及高齡者就業促進化的相關配套措施因為日本跟韓國都有高齡者從事刺激的相關問題台灣有時候可以維持全世界是表率就由部長來帶動其可以啦一個月內謝謝主席謝謝劉建國委員發言接下來請牛喜婷委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].start |
19026.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].end |
19053.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].text |
謝謝主席 勞動部長有請有請洪部長部長辛苦了今天這個一百多個提案省起來應該會很辛苦但我想這樣子少子女化的問題解決總是需要強而有力的政策措施所以我想朝野大概難得有一致的一個共識但有一些細節的部分今天借用這一點質詢的時間來跟部長做一下探討 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].start |
19054.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].end |
19079.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].text |
因為我大概看了一下這個賴總統公布的18項各式各樣的措施裡面大部分都納入了就之後馬上會來的是院版的草案嘛那我想在黨委員個別提案版本其實也非常多詳細如何來做一些整合這不是我今天要討論的重點然後在法案審查過程之中大家就來共同討論總會有一個好的結果所以我們也樂觀其成但是有幾項這是這個部裡面有宣布過的就是說沒有進入這個修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].start |
19081.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].end |
19095.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].text |
範圍的第一個是有關於彈性工時其實它就是一件事就是有關於企業我們現在要鼓勵育兒要減少工作時間那麼減少工作時間當然就希望企業願意成全 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].start |
19096.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].end |
19119.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].text |
那企業願意成全你要給他誘因所以給他誘因的時候當然就要有不減薪當然就是由政府來做補助這邏輯當然非常清楚但是我想有關彈性工時不減薪還有相關的一個企業職貸的這樣一個補助觀念其實都非常好但是現在看起來在院版裡面並沒有相關的這個草案的內容表示說並沒有入法那我想請教一下部長在這一個決策的考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].start |
19119.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].end |
19134.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].text |
因為我是很擔心啦在沒有法源依據的情況之下宣布要做彈性工時然後予以薪資補貼但會不會到最後是指紋樓梯響到最後沒有辦法去做實行如果你覺得是不會的話可不可以做一下理由的清楚說明讓大家知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].start |
19134.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].end |
19158.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].text |
根文說明第一個現在在新公法19條裡面確實有減工時這樣的條文但是這個減工時的條文它其實是一個強制性的條文但是它是不得請求薪資那這個條文當然還是在的但是它有限制是小孩3歲以下或者是30歲以上的企業那我們的確是做了考慮也就是說因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].start |
19159.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].end |
19182.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].text |
其實各行業別他的工作樣態的差別很大有一些行業他有辦法做有一些行業他做起來的挑戰真的很高所以如果今天我們是把整個方案要用一個一致性的強制性的條文來去處理的時候可能會造成有很多的業別他實際上面在企業運作上面會出現很大的困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].start |
19183.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].end |
19209.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].text |
這是為什麼我們會在這個階段我們會先用一個獎勵性的計畫來去推動的原因可是這個獎勵性的計畫我們在範圍上面我們是抓到12歲的小孩我們是抓到12歲有12歲的小孩那我們也沒有特別去限制企業的規模也包括像直帶津貼的家計其實也沒有限制企業的規模不然我打斷你一下你剛剛講的都還我大概理解你的意思也就是說你實務站在執行的時候因為業界的樣態非常的廣 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].start |
19211.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].end |
19236.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].text |
所以你如果一條法案定時他就會有些人恐怕是沒有辦法執行好像是執行端的問題但既然他有業別適用的困難那不就是跟這個政策本身產生一定的抵觸嗎因為今天我們要推出這樣的政策去有助於大家降低工時鼓勵生育的時候如果因為實務上在部分業別有適用困難然後到最後寫得不清楚那他適用困難這個問題並不會解決嘛就還是會有部分業別到最後就不引用那是不是對這一群人來講就變相吃虧了就像剛剛劉建國委員講這個有雙清 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].start |
19239.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].end |
19264.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].text |
有些狀況特殊它就造成實際上的歧視跟不對等的待遇這一點不知道要怎麼處理我們必須要承認確實不同的工作樣態還是會有差異那我想我們的工作是第一個那個小時的工資我們全額補助第二個我們甚至還有職貸上面加緊的津貼的補助政府的工作是盡量讓僱主願意的門檻降低 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].start |
19266.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].end |
19280.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].text |
可是確實現在我認為還沒有辦法走到只要勞工舉手說他要申請雇主就一定強制性的不能拒絕的狀況所以在一個鼓勵的邏輯下面政府是盡力的讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].start |
19281.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].end |
19296.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].text |
雇主同意的門檻降低這是我們要盡力做的事情好 部長你務實的回答這個問題本行表是肯定但是你如果是鼓勵的話你要小心啦因為做政策宣傳的時候一向都話都講得很滿說減工時不減薪等等大家會以為這是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].start |
19297.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].end |
19319.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].text |
措施嘛大家到時候在法條討論的時候也一定會有相關的想法沒關係部長因為今天時間有限我也不耽誤你太多時間這個本期馬上也會有相關的一個版本我是有試著寫一些大家在法案討論的時候大家就集思廣益來共同處理另外一個小問題相對於這個這個這個減工時不減薪這個事情小問題就是你們講說婚嫁等等要一起延長對不對產假培養假有一些放在15條的修正案裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].start |
19320.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].end |
19349.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].text |
但是婚嫁沒有放在裡面你講婚嫁要延長但婚嫁走勞工請假規則啊對不對那勞工請假規則行政命令啊那你要不要提早宣布好消息先把它處理完確實婚嫁是在勞工請假規則裡面所以它不用去修修法嘛對啊那所以我們的確現在也在思考這部分要提前要來做的時機點那當然這裡面也涉及到我們包括我們執行上面的系統也包括我們會跟地方政府那也包括直戴津貼相對應的制度像直戴津貼的執行現在就在跟地方政府要正在討論之中 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].start |
19350.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].end |
19375.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].text |
有沒有相關的一個時間表因為我想很多馬上要結婚的人就很期待這件事嘛對不對如果它相對門檻沒有這麼高的話因為這一百多萬要討論一段時間啦對 我們會盡快啦但是因為這裡面涉及到在執行端尤其是我們需要地方政府一起來跟我們合作執行那目前正在跟地方政府要談好 你會後提供一下你預估的時間表相關的流程好不好我們希望可以早日看到好消息OK 部長辛苦了 謝謝謝謝牛喜婷委員發言接下來請陳瑩委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].start |
19398.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].end |
19400.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].text |
謝謝主席 麻煩請部長有請洪部長村委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].start |
19408.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].end |
19429.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].text |
部長好先前本席執行的時候有提到就是在勞動部職貸中心被法院認定被葉秀珊霸凌的Mandy在今年初接受媒體採訪露出之後最終還是被你們的李前執行長逼走了 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].start |
19430.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].end |
19447.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].text |
那在他離開旨在中心之前他放了一份離職公告在中心的這個LINE的這個大群組裡面那我怕就是不知道部長可能沒有看到所以我在這邊唸給部長聽喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].start |
19450.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].end |
19473.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].text |
他的title我不是离开职场只是从灾害现场撤离在正式离开前我必须留下这份真相当初我申诉主管霸凌经调查成立该主管已受惩处虽然他还有脸跟中心要求领取非自愿离职且如愿但我万万没想到 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].start |
19473.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].end |
19502.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].text |
一個宣稱預防職災的專責單位內部竟展開了一場針對發生者的集體報復最初接獲申訴時何前執行長曾言該位主管處理上有其壓力弄不好他也會下台但他不允許任何同仁在其任內受到霸凌如今回頭看前執行長的正職成了這家單位最後的良心而他的擔憂也成了事實 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].start |
19503.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].end |
19508.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].text |
不曉得面臨何等的惡勢力迫使其無預警離職細思疾恐 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].start |
19510.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].end |
19535.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].text |
一 惡意羅織罪名上演關關相護我引用中興正式公告提醒任用單位建議評估霸凌者是否釋認調查小組卻無視各司法中關於公共利益的豁免強行羅織罪名在人評會上前主管的新副經理更帶頭主張忌大過 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].start |
19536.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].end |
19565.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].text |
一个到处霸凌的惯犯被记晓过一个揭发真相的人竟然也要被记晓过这种把公权力当成私人报复工具的行为让人领教了中兴最真实的恶甚至有心腹放话要对我进行针对性的报复与威胁这就是中兴所谓的职场安全二崩坏的保密机制被出卖的伙伴 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].start |
19567.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].end |
19590.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].text |
忠英口口声声说保护证人结果却让资料精准外泄当初签署的保密协议成了陷阱中心院由恶意诉讼延烧到保护者身上由于发生的证人以及秉持专业的外部专家皆因资料外泄遭起诉并被前主管阿卡巴林冠范 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].start |
19593.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].end |
19615.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].text |
求償巨額款項連證人與專家都保護不了的單位有什麼資格談尊嚴三撤離災害現場我選擇離開是因為我不願與一群晦氣成性清算正職者為人清算正職者的人為伍這裡不願 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].start |
19616.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].end |
19636.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].text |
呃 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].start |
19639.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].end |
19667.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].text |
我想是這樣齁這位被法院再次判定霸凌案成立的葉秀珊呢在她霸凌別人的這個期間好2025年的9月她出書了在她的這個撰寫的這個書籍裡面的第5章有教大家如何防制霸凌那再來被霸凌的Mandy她離職了還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].start |
19668.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].end |
19688.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].text |
剛剛在裡面有特別提到了其中按照指引將這個葉秀珊調離主管職接受調查的何前執行長他也因此得罪了葉秀珊的靠山那他也因故被迫離職了那我不太清楚就是說到底 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].start |
19689.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].end |
19706.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].text |
上次有特別請部長再特別回頭去調查了解因為本席完全無法理解就是說像葉修山這樣子他的底氣到底來自於哪裡他怎麼樣 他為什麼有這樣子的底氣可以這麼囂張 這麼無懼無恐 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].start |
19709.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].end |
19735.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].text |
所以我想這個是部長希望你可以回頭好好調查了解的事情因為在這個被判定霸凌的這位葉秀珊的後面到底是誰如此的支持她好這樣子真正也是跟這個霸凌案有相關的這個幕後的黑手是不是還真有其人部長可以好好的再回去調查了解一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].start |
19737.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].end |
19765.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].text |
個人說明第一個去年有幾位在法人霸凌的申訴案基本上我們都是要求要依法依程序來做調查如果調查出來有霸凌成立的狀況那不適任的話基本上在去年我們都請這幾位主管把他請離了 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].start |
19768.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].end |
19795.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].text |
那這裡面當然涉及到一些個案也涉及到一些個資我不一定適合在國會的殿堂上面拿出來來細講但是我只能說這些相關的案件有申訴的有被申訴的我們都是要求依法依規調查處置有成立的不適應的狀況我們就把他請離 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].start |
19797.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].end |
19814.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].text |
我想我很高興聽到部長說要依法依規那但是依規依指引去處理調查的人也受到不公平的待遇他自己請辭啊你為什麼我都說他被迫被迫請辭 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].start |
19816.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].end |
19831.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].text |
他為什麼要自己請辭他好端端為什麼要自己請辭我想這個是部長你要回去好好了解的地方我今天時間有限我不在這裡跟你們探討這個問題我只是做提醒如果部長只是說因為他自己請辭了 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].start |
19832.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].end |
19850.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].text |
好啊那所以我想說的說這裡面涉及到一些個案性的細節每一個人涉及到一些個案性我不適合在我沒有要在這裡討論我不適合在這邊討論我沒有要在這裡再討論其他的細節我就說部長有些事情你要回去好好瞭解是 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].start |
19851.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].end |
19867.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].text |
我只是做这样善意的提醒就是每一个申诉案我们都要求一法一规调查处对如此而已那我不希望部长被很多事情蒙蔽我只是在这里很诚实的做一些善意的提出我也没有恶意那我想我们可以进入下一个质询的议题吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].start |
19869.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].end |
19894.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].text |
我們就這個就業保險法跟性別平等工作法的修正草案對於這個性工法的修正主要是要支持受僱者提高產假及育兒留職停薪的相關補助這裡面有一些是涉及到配偶申請的權利我想要先請教部長將來這個外籍勞工所生下的嬰兒育兒留停今天嬰兒的父親有沒有資格申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].start |
19896.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].end |
19910.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].text |
第一個是這個外籍的如果外籍的移工的話他其實是不適用救保法的所以他就沒有這個警惕就是現在的那個專法各位報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].start |
19911.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].end |
19934.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].text |
我們的救保法原則上是本國人跟外配都可以參加另外就是我們的就是外國專業人才延攬及僱用法的25條也讓這一些特殊的這個特定的專業人才可以參加就業保險那未來他參加就業保險就可以以法令給付但如果是剛剛委員講如果是移工的話那就沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].start |
19935.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].end |
19957.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].text |
好那我想那個移工的部分他們沒有辦法申請所以他也不會有就是嬰兒的父親有沒有資格申請的問題就他就不是參與救保的對象好所以那個那育兒留庭今天也因為育兒留庭今天就是來自救保線有救的都沒有好那我想就確認這個問題好謝謝謝謝陳英委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].start |
19966.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].end |
19969.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].text |
上午會議宣達全部結束 現在做一下決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].start |
19975.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].end |
19997.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].text |
第一 說明及詢答完畢第二 委員質詢未及答覆 請補充資料者請相關機關於兩週內以書面答覆委員另有求期限者 從其鎖定三 委員黃婕 吳宗憲 牛喜婷 吳佩奕圖全及所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].start |
19998.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].end |
20024.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].text |
委員范雲等17人明據性別平等工作法部分條文修正草案等100案及委員謝一鳳等19人明據就業保險法第10條第11條及第19條之3條文修正草案等88案尚未審查完略令則期繼續審查本日上午會議到此結束現在休息下午20 30分繼續開會 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].start |
21380.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].end |
21406.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].text |
現在繼續開會本日會議下午議程為第一繼續審查中華民國一百一十五年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部主管預算公務及非營業特種基金預算案二繼續審查勞動部含重財團法人職業災害預防及重建中心一百一十五年度預算書案接著我們來介紹我們的在場委員陳穎委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].start |
21410.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].end |
21437.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].text |
黃振旭委員介紹列席的官員勞動部洪森漢部長勞動力發展署黃玲玉署長勞工保險局白麗珍局長勞動基金運用局蘇玉清局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].start |
21439.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].end |
21464.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].text |
职业安全卫生署林玉堂署长劳动及职业安全卫生研究所王厚诚所长综合规划师丁玉珍师长劳动关系师王厚伟师长劳动保险师陈美女师长劳动福祉退休师黄维琛师长 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].start |
21466.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].end |
21478.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].text |
勞動條件及就業平等師黃琦雅師長勞動法務師傅惠芝師長秘書處呂美玲代理處長會計處林美信處長資訊處曾斐渝副處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].start |
21491.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].end |
21502.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].text |
財團法人職業災害預防及重建中心黃敬淳代理執行長行政院主計總處公務預算處陳淑平專門委員基金預算處劉亞斐科長 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].start |
21515.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].end |
21543.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].text |
接下來進行預算審查前先做以下宣告第一本日會議議程已於115年5月7日說明及詢答完畢第二本次審查公務預算案稅入科目以巷為處理單位稅出科目以木為處理單位基金預算案以各基金為處理單位五委員提案部分預算均照列 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].start |
21545.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].end |
21555.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].text |
3.本會召委會議決議與審查預算提案時保留於第二輪之提案委員不在現場者不再處理該項提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].start |
21558.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].end |
21581.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].text |
有關提案委員預算凍結案部分勞動部與各提案委員溝通結果如果提案委員同意併案凍結者請勞動部於本次公務及基金預算全部審查完略前將各同意併案凍結之提案案號及科目彙整後送主席台宣告後通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].start |
21583.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].end |
21591.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].text |
五 上述委員提案凍結之預算 除提案委員同意不須經同意後 使得動之者外 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].start |
21593.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].end |
21617.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].text |
文字均統一為須向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面報告並經統一後時的通知六 在本會審查中如有提案改為主決議或原主決議文字有修改者請行政單位於提案處理時宣讀主決議文字修正部分現在請議事人員宣讀115年度勞動部主管討論四項個案 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].start |
21623.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].end |
21636.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].text |
預算之科目金額及委員提案15年度中央政府總預算案勞動部主管收支部分一稅務部分第二款罰款及賠償收入第152項勞動部250萬第153項勞工保險局2亿8880 |