| IVOD_ID |
17481 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17481 |
| 日期 |
2026-06-01 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-35-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第19次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
19 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第19次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2026-06-01T08:31:02+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-06-01T17:33:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
09:01:58 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/7a505bc1fba11f2d7ccae23406c420092042dc10dca82677807a15c9b8761715dfc197e7034eedbc5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-06-01T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第19次全體委員會議【含秘密會議】（事由：繼續審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於國防部主管收支公開及機密部分（不含國家安全局部分）。（處理）（6月1日、3日及4日三天一次會）） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:02 - 17:33:00 |
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1847.399 |
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報告委員會初席委員五人已足法定人數現在開會請議事人員宣讀上次會議意思錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1857.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1884.356 |
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立法院第十一屆第五會期外交及國防委員會第十八次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國一百一十五年五月二十五日星期一上午九十二分至十二時三十三分地點紅樓三零一會議室出席委員陳俊宇等十四人列席委員賴士寶等六人列席人員外交部部長林佳龍及所屬人員國家安全局局長蔡明彥大陸委員會副主任委員沈有忠主席馬周吉委員文軍 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1885.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1895.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
報告是 想依宣讀上次會議思路 決定確定二 邀請外交部部長林佳龍國家安全局局長蔡明彥報告美中元首峰會後 地緣政治對新局 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1897.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1900.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
地緣政治新局對我國外交及總體國家安全之衝擊評估與因應,並請大陸委員會列席並備質詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1928.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1948.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
決定登記諮詢在場委員均已發言完畢報告及詢答結束二委員黃仁、洪玉祥所提書面諮詢列入記錄刊登公報三委員所提書面及口頭諮詢未及答覆或要求提供資資訊請相關機關於二週內書面答覆本會全體委員並附資本會委員令指定期限者從期鎖定宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1950.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1958.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
請問在場委員對上次的議事錄有遺漏或錯誤,需要更正之處?沒有那議事錄確定,請議事人員...抱歉抱歉 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1959.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1987.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
就我們上一次針對空軍規劃機場專用3000加侖消防車的這個部分那個籌購案我們那時候同意全案減列9000萬因為是為了要顧及整個消防安全所以我們這9000萬是可以從它的那個金額去減可是不可以去減量就它的那個配置的車輛數不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1988.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1995.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
不可以改變他們既然評估需要這麼多的車輛所以我們全案簡略的是它的單價的部分要從單價去省下來這個部分再補充一下 謝謝好 那請議事人員宣讀本日議程討論事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2010.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2036.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
討論事項 繼續審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於國防部主管收支公開及機密部分瓜胡不罕國家安全局部分 宣讀完畢現在介紹在場委員還有列席官員首先是陳永康委員牛雪婷委員馬文君委員羅美玲委員王玉川委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2039.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2064.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
那國防部列席官員部長顧立雄先生其餘人員請參考桌上所附名單本日會議繼續審查一五年度中央政府總預算案關於國防國防部主管收支公開還有機密的部分不含國安局的部分本日處理先公開後秘密現在進行處理公開部分請到協商桌提案處理提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2138.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2138.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
好那 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2149.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2167.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
有關國防部所屬預算案的審查我們先處理先前處理是到351案那我們現在開始從352案請國防部說明352案和353案其中353案請就全案建議的三動數及五年度建議的三動數分別說明謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2170.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2197.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
主席各位委員好憲兵報告針對案內352案353案是針對本部情報測量費所採購的多元運用行政用途無人機採購案本案經向牛委員辦公室馬委員辦公室來說明目前尚無共識建議本案能夠是否凍結1500萬並依照委員的指導跟管制事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2199.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2200.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
來管制實行完成書面報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2203.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2231.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
好那我們請田安委員說明謝謝主席352案一樣是多元運用行政用途無人機採購啦這每一個部門我們的標準都是一致的全部凍結專案報告之後一併解凍嘛因為我覺得把這講清楚由國防部來統籌規劃到底在各部門的一些詳細的規劃說明這我想這已遭公信是比較適合的所以前面幾個啦我給國防部參考因為前面幾個這個分別單位的時候大家都是想說保留嘛可能要再行處理嘛那這會看是不是要比照辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2232.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2260.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
這個請各位做參考 但本席非常堅持啦這個無人機的用途的專案報告是非常非常重要的我想這個對於國防部來說說明不是太困難的事對於社會大眾 對於我們監督也是有必要的事情以上 謝謝王定宇委員好 我只詢問一件事情我們這預算本來是去年要通過 今年要執行的今年度的財政年度已經過了一半那現在把它全數凍結專案報告後再來看看是否要解凍你們的執行上會不會有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2261.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2285.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
因為這不是小數 這如果是幾百萬或一兩千萬 那執行上還OK你這個金額比較大 一億多全數凍結財政年度已經過了一半了然後我們的會期雖然每一次都無限展延但不代表隨時都會開會去解凍或專報啦我請教憲兵這邊你們這個全數凍結對你們的執行上會不會有什麼困難那也跟同仁溝通啦 全數凍起來就不能凍嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2286.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2299.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
但是你如果有一些讓他先前面開始做一些準備動作因為我們的年度真的已經過一半了那他們來報告之後後續解凍可以跟上這個進度否則今年年度就過去了是不是請憲兵說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2303.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2320.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
現面說明目前本部現有的無人機的配附是119具就訓練需求來講各單位僅能滿足一個排的需求來操作另外本部針對非操作所也訓練了400多員 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2323.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2337.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
所以說簡單而言對目前的裝備的量跟我的需求量是還沒有達標但是剛剛我也講了這個病案到國防部的同樣的案件來保留說明本部來配合辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2343.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2366.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
謝謝主席本席的是353案這個也就是多元運用行政用途無人機的採購案這個因為各軍種都有那到現在還沒有辦法清楚的說明為什麼要這樣的數量而且一次編了5年那它到底是什麼樣的用途因為有些都說有1、2、3類那在不清楚的情況之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2368.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2389.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我們還是要求這個送保留協商因為我的是全案刪減因為如果說按照大家第一年的需求你是五年那你第一年編的我們留下來然後你其他後面多的可能就全部要刪啦那既然沒有公示我們還是送保留協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2391.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2418.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
跟馬委員說明 各軍種的行政用機其實它不叫行政用機 它是在行政院的統籌計畫裡面等一下還會探討到狀況的案子它就是叫做行政院的統籌計畫大概我們編了440億那這個案子也在我們部長的指導所以這個案子是各軍種區分兩個部分第一個部分假如是有共同供應契約因為行政院也主導了 他們會開出個公約 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2419.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2434.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
公約有的話就直接跟公約下訂為了讓單位他在訓練的時候我們還沒有得到攻擊機之前我們一定要有訓練機不管他平時比如說他平時空軍他會用在機場的跑道的巡邏等等的 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2435.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2454.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
那這個部分呢假如是沒有共約的就是由各軍種像那個憲兵可能是特殊規格的他就是由軍種來統一來招標而且我們部長又指導了不准再銷售到比如說陸軍你不准再銷售六金團八金團你就是要統一採購用批量去壓低價格讓我們買到最 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2458.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2481.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
便宜而且啊在平時啊因為而後啊我們大概供給機大概在今年下半年或明年才會取得之前啊平時用於巡管啊那個農業部也有啊那個教育部也有啊那個交通部也有啊這個是我們在配合這個行政的部分希望不要懸殊到凍結因為凍結他明年真的是沒辦法執行了啦就是說我們可不可以明年的份啊給他們去做一些採購的部分以上說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2483.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2501.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
因為我們已經看到有各軍種大概也都有一些訓練用的無人機那我們在過去也買了很多不管是偵查用各方面都有所以其實如果已經有的其實可以拿出來用因為我們上一次去看的時候事實上它的功能很差 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2503.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2531.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
包括抗干擾而且我們用非常高價去買的那些其實可以拿出來使用因為他對所有的偵查甚至比你現在訂的這個標準都還要高我們認為有時候他也必須要推陳那如果說在現在過渡時期然後還沒有辦法講清楚的情況之下這個部分我們還是明確要求那大概就是送協商因為沒有結論嘛因為像剛剛有提到共同供應契約的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2532.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2539.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我們有很多共同供應契約其實它是非常成熟的產品然後它的規格比如說我們要買電腦我們要買什麼樣它的產品非常多元所以其實由共同供應契約去採購然後去 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2549.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2569.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
然後讓各單位去採買那個沒有問題可是我們現在訂的規格已經是有點問題了所以這個後續可能還會再另外討論的那就這個部分如果沒有共識我們還是希望送保留協商因為沒有共識所以我們保留那再來是354跟354案到359案請說明接續報告354案到359案 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2580.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2592.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
這六案就是針對所謂的效益評估作業費DIO案來實施提案DIO案裡面有三案清兵器火控系統採購以及一二類無人機裝備採購以及通信網域正義傳輸裝置採購三個部分那首先針對354案 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2600.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2613.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
劉希廷委員提案經向辦公室說明建議後建議本案並馬委員提案來一併討論355萬林竹英委員提案經向辦公室說明同意修訂為主決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2615.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2631.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
接續報告356案委員馬委員針對輕兵器火控系統提案經向辦公室級委員說明後全額原來刪減改列全額凍結另外再向委員報告考量國軍作戰第一線官兵的硬殺能力明顯不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2633.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2656.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
無人機抗干擾及軟殺的科技有明顯提升且開裝備為新興科技經美軍測評及運用擊殺率為90%委員有提醒要以延長採購為優先確認才可以確保裝備的效能本部會以此為目標來辦理來保障官兵第一線的生命安全懇請委員知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2659.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2671.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
那是不是請提案委員能夠就他們同意這個國防部的說明來去併案354356359併案凍結完成說明報告之後就 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2679.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2699.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
這個本席最主要的一個質疑的重點是一個目前國軍各個單位都有一個無人機但尤其陸軍未來同樣也面臨城鎮作戰陸軍的無人機效應評估難道不能提供憲兵作為借鏡嗎所以憲兵提供的文件指出需求是一個夜間徵收 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2701.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2723.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
即使影像回傳城鎮作戰環境但這些其實得以入侵步兵,守備部隊需求高度的重複尤其是小型班排擠無人機,幾乎是入侵主戰場現在變成入侵的精測一次,憲兵再測一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2726.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2745.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
軍種各自以概念的驗證而且這一次實際採購武器數量已經接近了這個小規模的一個建制了所以這筆經費到底是做效應評估還是變相採購的一個前置作業所以這個是本席質疑的問題你們再做一個加強說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2751.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2764.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
這是一個做效益評估的經費我們剛聽到有的經費被動有的被要求全減說明不清楚效益評估其實就是要在做大筆投資之前把它弄清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2765.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2784.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
這個裝備剛才說起來是美軍在用但是是某一個國家的產品第一個我們也是希望應該說要求要直接跟生產國的生產廠商而不是經過中間這個要求是對的但我會建議同仁就是說我們現在面對無人機的侵擾太多樣了 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2785.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2813.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
有的用刺針去打是划算的有的用砲彈去打都覺得浪費錢所以這個清兵器的這一個火控系統其實是用子彈最廉價的子彈去打下大量而低廉的無人機騷擾所以這個測試對國軍的面對無人機的侵擾其實是很重要的一塊軍規軍用的大型的到一般的像那個薩希德的 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2813.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2829.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
那個其實都有要對應的武器那這個是用大量的包含FPV啦或者商規商用的小型四軸的騷擾如果我們沒有硬殺的能力的話就會發生我們在前線向小金門列嶼發生那個情形所以這一個裝備其實是美軍推崇 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2834.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2863.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
那我們未必要買單所以才會用小額度的去把它做這個效率的一個效益的評估啦所以我是建議說我還是要強調這個預算是去年要整的今年已經過了一半啦那現在如果憲兵你說全數凍結OK我尊重但我覺得像這種效益評估應該要去做做完了合用趕快配付下去因為我們現在好幾好多無人機單位有編制沒裝備這個情形其實應該要儘速改善否則那個危機是很大的 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2865.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2869.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
我們接下來是劉許廷委員 林柱英委員然後再是馬文君委員好 謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2874.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2899.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
這一筆款子下面有一樣有跟無人機相關的這樣子的一個作業那因為講嘛他們講說是要降低生產成本嘛要先做小型的實驗嘛但我們看了一下這個抓無人機算是一千萬左右但是有六架嘛那一架的單平均成本是一百多萬那我想要請教一下第一個這個是是因為它實驗所以才那麼貴還是說因為它的無人機比較大還是怎麼樣是不是可以提供一個比較清楚的一個說明啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2899.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2921.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
要不然你單就單價來看好像沒有降低成本的這種感覺嘛沒有這種時效的這種數字上看不出來所以是不是請國防部在這個地方待會兒可以統一說明的時候也做一下補充那因為這個案子很多委員都提案嘛到底額度凍結還是減點怎麼樣我們就尊重這委員會的集體決議好不好謝謝因為相提委員提的應該三五七吧因為三五六是三五四三五四三五四就這一包嘛就這一包 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2928.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2941.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
因為現在有分別有不同的,三五四案是屬於無人機的這個部分嗎?無人機的部分,因為剛剛是在討論清兵器的火控系統,是有另外一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2947.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2951.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
這次採購無人機有別於一般的真用武器無人機幾個特色的部分向委員報告包括強調它的飛鴻供應鏈 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2962.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2984.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
第二個可以同步剪接國際的Tag通訊系統然後具有夜間的高倍的徵收能力而且去干擾被干擾之後它不會迷航它會自衛返回的功能另外它的抗風防塵抗水等能夠把它等級提高能夠受天候影響的狀況最低另外就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2985.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2993.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
機身的結構也較刺激的為優,有一定的抗霧級能力以上是特色說明,所以單甲會比較高一點,以上報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2999.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3015.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
換我嗎好其實本席也有提就是355案但為什麼我會改成主決議我來講一下首先我會提案的原因當然重點是這是一個新興的計劃那在這個計劃過程當中一開始其實你們真的沒有明列到底是什麼原因那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3017.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3028.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
這樣的一個所謂的新興計畫裡面沒有寫清楚的時候我當然會提案希望能夠進行凍結要求你們的說明那在你們的說明當中可以看得到就是要針對未來的採購做一個小量的先來做試用我想這個對於現在不 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3035.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3040.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
身為委員不論是執政黨或在野黨的委員都希望錢是用在刀口上尤其是在這樣的預算的審查過程當中我們也希望能夠看到必要的支出那麼我自己個人是會認為如果是以一個小規模甚至於只是 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3054.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3079.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
一個兩個三架這樣的一個採購的方式其實本人是認同的那麼剛剛我其實特別再仔細看了你們給我的這個報告當中比如說這六架裡面其實是一類的無人機兩架嘛那兩類的無人機一架然後沉浸式無人機有三架所以一共六架所以其實是分別這六架是都不一樣的我覺得像剛剛牛許廷委員所要求的 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3081.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3084.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
說明應該就是這樣它並不是一千去除以六是吧其實是各自有不一樣的那如果是這樣的說明其實委員們就可以很清楚當然我不知道說是不是我辦公室得到的內容跟紐委員的不一樣還是紐委員的辦公室裡面沒有把這樣的訊息轉達給委員這個我不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3102.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3118.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
但是如果是這樣的一個說明包括你們的所謂輕兵器火控系統的25句然後包括通信網路增益傳輸的系統有一句等等如果可以是這樣的清楚而且它是必要性的來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3119.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3123.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
國軍內部的這樣一個試用那我就會認為這樣的預算就應該保留因為我們在討論的過程中如果在野黨不斷的質疑說你買來的不好用不合用或是剛剛有委員在發言說這個買了已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3134.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3139.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
不符合現行的效力或效益那麼這樣的預算不是就應該要讓它編列不應該動不應該刪嗎否則等一下後來我們在討論未來的時候你又說買來的東西不堪用不實用到底來做質疑所以我自己個人是認為我為什麼會把它改成主決議是因為我經過聽過 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3155.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3167.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
限制部的說明之後我會認為這樣的預算才是更應該保留下來然後對於我們未來的武器的採購才能夠真正的符合國軍的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3169.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3186.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
我這邊補充一下第一個就是說那個無人機的部分他是有含一類的無人機二類的無人機以及沉浸式的無人機另外有含操控系統跟彈射器他這個相關的這個價格都不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3187.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3204.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
那比如說以沉浸式的無人機是125,000有三架那麼第一類的無人機的那個部分是96萬有兩架那兩類的無人機那個款就會比較貴一點有300萬一架那這個主要就是剛剛憲兵已經有提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3204.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3224.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
那殲滅器火控的一個系統呢它最主要就是說它透過AI的追秒能力它可以在最佳的時機切除射手自動釋放那個槍機來實時射擊有效提升目標的命中率另外因為一併討論所以我再講一下那個通訊網路增益的傳輸的裝置是作為寬頻增加網域的擴散節點它可以在這個城鎮作戰的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3229.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3250.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
一種遭高遮障的一個環境之下快速機動建立一個一個通訊網絡那我這邊說明一下就是說我們現在DIO成立之後呢我們持續關注國內外民間科技的發展所以我們為了要協助軍種依照作戰的需求跟任務規劃決定方向所以我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3251.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3263.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
解決的方案所以我們會根據裝備的使用場景跟技術成熟度的考量我們分別選擇一個少量的採購測試或者是原型開發兩種途徑那少量採購的測試就是用一個少 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3267.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3295.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
少了錢然後針對經過初步評估有助於提升戰力的一個現貨產品我們採購少量工部隊使用來驗證這個裝備的實際的效能到底是不是符合我們的作戰需求那掀起驗證這個戰術戰法跟後勤的需求之後我們評估如果認為符合作戰效益我們再擴大建案跟部署可避免一次性大量採購但是卻不符合需求的一個風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3296.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3325.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
那現在相關的這些市面上有的這些新興科技都需要透過這種少量採購跟原型開發測試來能夠以相對低成本來快速驗證這個實戰可行性看到它的效能然後帶來一些作戰概念跟戰術戰法的革新我想這個是我們現在正在努力的一個方向那也是我們發展不對稱戰力的一個關鍵在這一點上面我們是請各位能夠予以支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3328.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3351.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
馬文之前我先想講幾句針對DIO的部分之前DIO的陳平是有來我們的辦公室首先我是對於這兩年多來還沒有網站這件事情你怎麼去偵案根本很多來自國內外的各個不同的企業跟我說他根本找不到你們他不知道怎麼找你們有些竟然還要跑去104能力領航才找到你們的電話我覺得這是一個非常扯的事情這是不對的 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3353.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3380.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
這兩年多你說要徵案那你要跟誰徵案他們都不知道你在哪裡的時候上次這個歐洲的代表來到我們亞創那個無人機產業園區的時候很多廠商說 蛤 有DIO那他們自己是AI相關的啊他們根本沒有辦法去參加你們的徵案啊他怎麼知道你們的徵案在哪裡有時候你們的徵案根本就找不到都是找過去的人嘛做過去的事情那這樣有什麼創新有什麼新創這個部分我還是希望大家可以檢討一下好 下一位委員是 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3383.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3385.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
謝謝 針對356 357還有358的部分剛剛一直有在提到DIO就是我們希望是新創創新的這一些產製品那也希望可以提高我們國內的這些能量然後發展不對稱作戰因為我們每次都這麼講 可是我們看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3407.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3419.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
從剛開始審的DIO的案子到現在憲兵可能也被要求不少那我們就這些來看如果DIO這些創新的這些產品 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3423.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3431.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
它是可能沒有辦法找到成熟的產品或者可以特別符合我們需求的那我們當然用這種模式可是我們看到這幾個案子從357這個自動瞄準的這個部分還有在剛剛有委員提到12類無人機裝備還有曾經是無人機還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3443.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3447.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
一個就是通信網域增印傳輸的這個裝置我們看357好了這個委員也有提到這個無人機的裝備採購那現在其實不管是一二類一二類已經是小型微型那可能都是很普遍的到處都有 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3463.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3465.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
隨機在市場上也非常多那陸軍也買了比如說像陳進式的無人機也都有我們也買很多不是現在統統沒有那你還要發展什麼你買的這個功能的目的到底是什麼你還要DIO它到底要發展什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3480.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3483.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
你的沉浸式無人機我們也都買了啊而且現在市面上非常多你現在在訓練用的或者我們之前在各軍種採購的也非常多所以我們不知道它的目的是什麼本來我們是不同意的用DIO的模式那現在同意357是凍結200萬跟其他委員一起 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3502.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3505.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
那另外358的部分,這個部分其實就是因為原來用的都是軍民通訊網那現在還有ATAC,ATAC未來是全軍要買的那你現在買的不過就是強迫器,你還要找人開發什麼這個部分我們也希望,因為這個部分消防署的特收其實也有買過 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3526.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3530.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
的預算也偏高,可是這個部分我們還是同意讓憲兵去採購所以他簡列200,動100那另外還有的就是大家一直提到清兵器火控系統採購我們可以看到之前有陸方他們無人機在侵擾金門的時候我們用石頭丟,那時候被笑了很久,所以我們去買了那個干擾槍 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3552.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3556.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
那時候說干擾槍很重要要應對這個部分可是現在發現干擾槍一點用處都沒有而且還不好用你現在根本不想用可是我們那時候編了很多的預算現在我們看到的這個AI的這個追瞄就是我們自動瞄準的這個部分剛剛有委員提到這個美軍非常推崇因為美軍已經買了 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3575.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3579.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
那已經有成熟的產品可是我們現在卻要用DIO的模式再去開發而且這一家公司它根本不是相關產業的它是做醫療用品的它根本對這個也不是內行的我們卻選擇這樣子的一個公司來做這樣子的一個發展它已經有成熟產品了為什麼我們捨棄不用然後還要再去做這樣子的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3603.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3606.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
研發然後他如果沒有成功就跟干擾槍一樣那不是小批量跟大批量已經有成熟的產品我們用不會的廠商去做開發這個就已經很怪了所以反無人機系統它是針對硬砂的之前都說已經有軟砂了那線兵率先來使用所以我們還是認為本來我們是全數刪減的因為我們認為根本就不應該用這樣的開發 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3632.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3656.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
它如果開發不出來它等於又歸零什麼都沒有所以這不是買少量說可以測試它不好用或者怎麼樣這個部分我們要求全數凍結希望去檢討它的方式請王委員我看到那個清冰器的它是驗證它的效益啦倒不是找人來研發不過我要提醒部裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3657.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3674.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
我剛才聽媽媽這樣講有點擔心就是說真正美軍用的那家公司是聲譽卓著的軍事裝備的公司是來自於第三國那在某個展覽上有另外一家跟他仿冒一模一樣名稱的公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3676.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3702.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
一模一樣的名稱公司卻是不具備能力的所以我剛才聽馬耀元在講的是這裡面會不會有假冒公司的部分因為那個在國際上好像有訴訟所以你們要注意不要被假的沒有能力的還是什麼的在弄醫療器材的我不曉得啦但我提醒你就美軍在用的那個裝備是一個第三國是一個長期有實戰經驗的公司絕對不是什麼沒有經驗的或者說是醫療公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3703.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3717.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
去年在美國被抓到一件就是台灣人弄的模仿一模一樣的名稱弄了一個Stand在那邊所以是不是裡面有混淆的部分請國務部裡面要注意這第一點第二點無人機進步很快 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3718.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3736.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
那毛雨頓反制無人機的系統當然就要跟著進步很快這是一個國際的趨勢也是不得不不像以往我們買一門這個155榴彈炮用個40年它還可以打現在的戰場你面對的裝備是不斷的更新這個我們提過很多次所以我個人是支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3736.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3756.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
DIO在眾多的民間的專業他可能做的是老人身心照顧的機器狗可是轉來做軍規的偵察兵那個一念之間在技術上嫁接上或者剛才講的這一個輕兵器的追瞄或者說他的AI的系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3757.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3786.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
他來驗證效益是合用的確實符合我們戰場上的需求的那他願意計轉我們就不是少批量在那邊研製弄逆向弓法能夠買得到合格的裝備給我們的士兵用就應該買可以合規的計轉就計轉這才會快DIO是站在巨人的肩膀往上發展的概念所以我會建議顧部長這邊DIO也好或者AI的導入在美國的戰爭部是直接屬於部長執管的 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3787.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3808.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
而不是在某個思向下那樣子的話其實就會發生剛才陳冠廷委員說的他本身還有其他業務阿不然人家不知道DIO在哪裡他都找不到你怎麼被你DIO嘛所以這個是一個DIO跟AI辦公室可以思考看看美國的戰爭部本來也是附屬在一個組織後來直接就隸屬 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3809.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3828.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
變成直屬單位比較專責然後它涵蓋每個層面另外我要請教這個國防部或者是憲民這邊我剛才聽到那個戰規司還是軍備局在說明說你們現在那個要用CI就是關鍵基礎設施他們有分三類嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3829.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3843.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
所以以後開出那個共同規格之後呢就去採購嘛共同採購合約的方式他就分三類加一餅三類可是我們這邊是分成五類所以你們這個是到底要怎麼套就是說我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3844.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3868.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
國防部當時的無人機是五類那CI關鍵基礎設施它反制無人機是分三類我現在不曉得它的無人機是分幾類而且到目前為止那個規格好像我還沒有看到有公告所以你們如果有一些是要按照那個共同合約的方式去採購它分類的方式跟我們軍中之前的說明講的方式到底一不一樣還是說這是兩個完全不一樣的系統是不是 請說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3872.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3894.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
先說明一下就是說剛剛委員的指教我們都會虛心來接受我想先說明一下第一個就是說國防創新小組也好現在那個AI辦公室也好基本上都是直屬在這邊辦公室那我們對於這些小批量採購的部分也是要經過聯參的部門然後跟軍政副部長會有一個聯席的會然後來 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3900.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3916.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
訓民這個有小批量採購的這個需求之後那藉由小批量採購用一個小額的經費然後來驗證是不是符合作戰的需求那所以也會提到這個我這邊來討論所以我們這個基本上來講對這個進行驗證的這個部分都是符合我們這個聯合參謀本部的一個需求這個這是 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3928.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3949.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
這是第一點那第二點就是說有關這些小批量採購的部分它都是以現貨的一個系統但是它合不合於就它的能力到底是不是如他們所宣稱的然後符合我們的需求這個部分都要經過我們測評之後我們才會再進入正式的建案的這個程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3950.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3966.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
那有關剛剛所提到我們這些要去透過的這些案項所應該要注意的事項我們都會來加以注意那以上我就這個部分先說明那個那看那個下面有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3968.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3980.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
主席 各位委員我這邊再做一點報告DIO它兩個精神一個創新研發第一個就是成熟的科技裝備小額採購我們做的這三案都是成熟的小額科技裝備採購包括剛剛委員提醒我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3983.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4012.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
當然我們所有的案件都是以原廠的規格來去作跡當然我們的理想狀態也是希望原來的廠商原廠部分來向我們實施採購這個部分我們會納入一個管制的閉管要項甚至包括如果是代理廠商他都要經過原廠的授權這個部分我們會做個確認商務商案建議能夠保留另外一點建議就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4013.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4013.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
356全數凍結356全數凍結 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4037.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4057.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
另外想向委員建議就是全數凍結你們執行有沒有問題你要講出來不要跑那麼快委員個別委員都希望把這些全部都凍結起來但你們在執行上會遇到什麼困難要講出來國人在看現在因為討論的案有一點有點現在是3544並357 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4065.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4066.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
354有沒有要併356還是只有併357 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4073.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4097.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
所以他354只有併357嘛對不對這是一個那355是林委員同意改為組決議嘛是那現在對那所以現在應該是354併357這一個案那另外一個是356一個案嘛另外一個是358一個案嘛是吧然後359是併35 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4104.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4130.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
黃委員提的應該是屬於那個就屬於我們要將這個這個是有包括輕兵器火控系統嗎還是屬於那個有關於那個增加網域的擴散節點來建立一個快速機動建立一個通訊網絡的這個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4132.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4158.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
還是有包括清兵器嗎清兵器跟無人機兩個案子清兵器跟無人機就這兩個案子那反而是那個以那個通訊網路增益傳輸作為那個裝置作為寬頻增加網路網易寬敞檢測這個不沒有是吧不是我說黃人委員的那個案子他到底是包括多廣 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4159.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4163.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
359 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4167.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4172.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
如果是這樣的話應該是牛委員提的是無人機嘛所以無人機354是併357嗎併359嘛好那另外356是併3 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4195.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4216.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
359嘛 對不對因為359也有提到那個火控系統嘛 對不對對不對 356嘛356你有留火控系統跟無人機啊所以356跟359都有討論到這樣子嘛 對不對好 那現在我們是不是就354並357那個部分354並357那個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4223.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4226.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
馬尾的意思是要怎麼樣我們兩岸並東一遷蘇豹同意我解凍這樣好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4231.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4238.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
五人機的部分是動一圈嘛然後書面報告就解凍嘛是這樣子嗎那這是一個那另外一個就是再來是三五 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4264.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4279.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
358那個部分358是那個網路網路通訊網路爭議來傳出這個這個部分還是要馬文提一下因為這個是我們跟跟美方那邊一起來來驗證的一個項目這個專門為了城鎮站 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4282.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4288.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
這個部分減劣跟那個凍結我把它講本來我們是全數減劣因為其實這個部分買強迫器而已啦你要開發這個很奇怪放在DIO很怪所以我們同意讓你減200是因為這個在網路上都可以查得出來200多萬就可以買到了可是我們編了400多萬所以我們才會有減劣的部分那凍100是希望後續說明清楚就好 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4310.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4313.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
那這個部分我想這是公開的價格我們偏高我們已經我們稍微減下來這樣其他就讓我們持續進行嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4322.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4347.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
這個部分是不是能夠不剪裂,因為這個部分可以凍結,但是不要去剪裂它你比網路貴一倍以上,網路的價格,對啊不一樣你教育訓練放在DIO很大一截,所以耳度不高而且它比較特殊是,它是一套不是,因為你的價格要說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4349.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4375.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
各位報告它不是單純的一個強迫器而已它主要功能是第一個它機型很小它的原廠的設計它這一套就是30柱那它透過這個小機子可以實施4、5G的信號的鏈接之外並這30個它可以構成一個區域性的網路強化系統所以說它對鑽石運用它是有相當的價值 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4379.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4392.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
你剛才講的還是硬體可是你剛才沒有用麥克風講的是這包含美軍來協訓的費用嗎包含美軍來協訓馬上委員質疑說協訓費用怎麼放在DIO這筆錢該花那放在DIO的原因是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4393.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4411.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
那這筆錢裡面不是只有硬體我們如果都只看硬體像裸機一樣當然價格都比較好像貴一點但是拋含了美軍來協訓來祭邪或者是什麼東西那可以把它說明清楚至於放在DIO的原因是什麼是不是憲兵這邊或者陳平思這邊可以說明清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4414.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4431.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
我在說明因為它這個部分它是在主要它是要成一個在任何基地台中斷的情況之下它成為一個區域的一個對對對所以它那個不是單純的一個強迫器這個概念的它這個對 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4433.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4459.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
對在ATEC我們的通訊認訊的維護上面是很重要所以我們要來驗證一下在我們高樓林立的情況之下有一些高樓的建築物內跟地下設施氣質信號非常的這個微弱那我們能不能結合ATEC的這個系統的信號能夠在這個小部隊戰鬥艦我們還是能夠達到這個訊息傳輸的這樣子然後再加上跟美方的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4460.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4481.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
所以部長現在DIO有一個任務是要新引進的裝備去驗證它的效益不只是研發做新的而是我要買這個新的我要大量採購之前先verify先確認它的效益是否可行再來大量採購所以DIO它的功能有包含這個嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4483.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4509.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
我請教一下有關通訊的問題就是說你的狀況是說如果Wi-Fi局部不通那它這個台可以提供你要不要用到微波或是要不要接Local的Fire不用通通不要它可以在整個機台中間它成為一個區域的一個通訊網絡然後它就可以ATT&CK裡面都可以通了也就是說它等於是 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4511.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4536.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
作為一個中心網絡的擴充點來提升一個傳輸的距離簡而跟委員補充這30台他只要有一台購得到一點點的訊號這30台馬上就會形成一個面試的串聯形成有效的一個通訊網域系統因為台北這個高樓林立我們要驗證一下看看到底有多廣 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4540.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4542.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
工事那就保留送卸商好了我們要提的是你DIO現在的裝置我們剛剛有講如果是美軍來指導那他的地下碉堡他們在很多地方的作戰的模式他是怎麼用的美軍已經用很多了我們現在要全軍都要買憲兵只是先買 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4561.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4567.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
那你這個部分我們也提到消防署的特收其實他也買過所以我們是用這樣子的一個價格來做一些相對的比較如果我們覺得這樣是你還把其他的都算進來那DIO到底他可以包山包海包到什麼程度我們不曉得你現在連那個一些技術的指導啦或者他來的會議啊或什麼你全部都要算進來嗎因為這樣跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4587.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4599.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
當初跟我們說明的那個也不太一樣那如果沒有共識這個就保留送協商因為這個只有編441萬就是因為他錢不多部長他不是錢你就是這是成熟那沒關係啦保留送協商因為沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4608.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4624.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
我們認為他不應該放在那裡了跟另外這個案子是一樣的火控系統也是一樣的如果說你們覺得這個你是一開始都編的很少錢有些案子可能高達好幾億可是你第一年編32萬就類似這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4627.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4633.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
你未來其實它要買的可能是全軍要使用的或者它可能會擴及非常多它的數量非常龐大可是你們在開始都會編很少所以我們更希望一開始你就走對的方向然後做對的事這是我們的目的你今天如果價格一開始都可以這麼高那你後面買的也都是這麼高啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4651.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4663.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
好那354跟357還有359併了1000萬併案然後凍結1000萬經書面報告同意後時得凍資那以354案的紐委員為主案第355案改組決議第356案跟358案保留那356全數凍結是不同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4678.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4689.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
那我們就按全數刪減的部分我們要保留協商 按我原來的提案全數減劣3564凍結之後 金蘇媒報告同意使得凍置嗎 是吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4690.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4707.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
你們現在說要保留356要 如果國防部認為說這樣子是可以可行的話那就那我們就凍結我們就凍結以後順便報告金同一二十個凍子因為我們要確認一下剛剛原來有委員指教我們會遵循來辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4710.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4722.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
那我們凍結那買okok好好了解好那那那宣言一下358案是保留嗎然後356案凍結2188萬9000元提出書面報告並經同意獲實的凍值好那我們繼續350360案請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4742.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4752.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
接續包括360案為本部訓練綜合作業費本費是一個年度的正常的經常性的支出 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4753.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4776.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
主要是辦理官兵的專長教育部隊訓練以及駐地基地戰備演習反毒等一般事務的訓練費那在這個訓場中委員 牛委員也特別關切到有關於裡面只有496萬元的那個訓場維護費是不是能量上沒辦法提升訓場的一個裝備的效益這也向委員報告那有關於訓場 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4778.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4790.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
中長期的工程整建在沒有維修價值的狀況下本部從今年到明年也陸續編列大概有10個案專注針對現場的現場專案的維修讓訓練效果提升 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4795.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4817.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
另外補充報告這三千八百三十三萬裡面有兩千兩百一十九萬一千元是定額下售給聯營的訓練經費那部隊已經走了訓練了半年內 急需這筆經費的依註那委員提案凍結三千萬 建議是不是可以改成組決議來實行 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4820.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4836.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
好 謝謝主席這我們偶爾要提敘一下基層弟兄的辛勞所以不然我們就改組決議好 現在好 你們看一下謝謝委員但那個相關的一些說明就是說修繕計畫也好 訓練機會也好一些詳細說明就請隨時跟本辦保持溝通好不好好 謝謝委員好 謝謝361案改列組決議第361案請說明接續報告361案為本部的設施修繕維護費與管理編列的是2億6884萬7千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4851.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4859.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
委員提案凍結一億元本案向委員說明本案主要是本部年度內各營社的修繕 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4861.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4876.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
針對現有建築的兵舍以及未來新興兵舍具有中華營區等六個案的修繕預算規劃其中委員有關切到惠敏營區的營舍修繕的部分今年僅針對惠敏營區的庫儲設施還有一個訓場來實施修繕 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4881.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4894.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
因為惠敏雲區的話它比較老舊45年了它的需求我們都是逐年的提升逐年的編列來改善官民租用的因息那特別預算會編也是針對物資囤儲的 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4897.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4910.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
改善跟那個預算的修站的性質是不同的特別向委員說明那本案也向委員說明後原來是委員提列是凍結1億元建起能夠減凍至1000萬元提出書面報告後來施設凍結執行請委員指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4915.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4928.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
好 謝謝主席這個不會只是有惠民營區這個部分因為惠民營區我們看到的是在前面的那個強化經濟社會及國民生國安任性特別預算其實已經有編列相關預算那到底哪一些東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4929.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4953.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
那分別哪一部分是做哪些事情這部分要有詳細的說明而且這也是表示你這幾年已經連續投入大額整修經費這當然這個營區在本期的選區我當然也樂見我的這個東西修繕得越來越好但是我覺得過程要清楚明白這是民意代表的這個責任所以我覺得功能重疊的部分要做清楚的一個說明那第二個就是中華營區的部分你編了一億四千一百萬元對不對那因為你講說我要有 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4954.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4983.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
新增的兵力做進駐嘛那我看這個根據本辦之間的了解兵力的進駐計畫已經排上去了也就是說最近兵力就要進去那你會不會造成兵力進駐的時候他同時在整修這中間的一些配套措施怎麼樣做安排我覺得這也要清楚明白那民生營區的外牆整修工程看起來美化的部分居多那是不是整個營區相關的設施都好了只剩美化還是說其他有更要緊的事情要做所以我想這一整包預算裡面分別各項指向我們都有一些疑義啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4983.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5010.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
那我是覺得這樣子啦因為我本來是做專案報告但我覺得因為一個營區修繕大家還要搞專案報告也蠻累的不如這樣啦我們就維持凍結的金額但是你就書面報告同意後解凍針對我剛剛講這三個問題你趕快把它寫清楚來嘛寫清楚來大家同意好那就趕快把它處理完那這也不是全因為你整包是兩億六嘛所以也不至於會立刻影響到你現在的這些工程的一些安排好不好所以我建議數的不變但我們把它改成書面報告同意後死的凍之看這樣好不好 以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5012.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5013.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
361案凍結一千萬元書面報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5040.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5052.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
OK好那國防部沒有異議的話就是凍結以議員書面報告經同意 指的凍制第362案接續報告362案為軍事單位裝備零附件制作以保修 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5061.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5084.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
那已經同意改列組決議了嘛對不對 是的我還是要提醒一下 憲兵近年來已經多筆的一個車輛汰換預算支持 那新式的車輛組不到位那最主要是本期支持必要的養父的經費 但也提醒指揮部應建立車輛維修成本 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5085.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5101.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
检机制避免形成一个新车磁吸增加维护费同步增加的现象谢谢委员363案到365案请检要说明363案到365案为后勤补给资源预算 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5102.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5120.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
本預算由牛委員跟馬委員來提列主要針對這預算內有兩個案項就是有關於庫儲及後期人力資源以及經理庫房貨梯設置的維護庫儲補給及後期人力資源部分本案364案本案 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5124.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5136.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
直接報告那個溝通結果好不好對啊直接報告溝通結果所以我們就刪減300萬元另外就是365萬同意刪減400萬元科目自行調整很請委員知道好那這個363案並365案刪減1400萬元科目字條免於凍結 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5146.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5150.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
那3400萬對363並3653.1400萬科目字條免於凍結好謝謝那364案3減300萬元科目字條 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5168.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5190.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
好 那接下來366案好 接續報告366案為特種戰術車輛錯過案 本裝備為太舊換新已經有協商結果的就直接講 經協商同意改列凍結1000萬提出書面報告後 使得同意動之 並且維持到好 主席我補充一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5192.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5194.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
就本案我們同意凍結一千萬那因為這個僅用公間車這個內政部警政署他們其實也有採購在這個部分因為我們看到全國軍只有憲兵買所以他後續的後勤為保要怎麼做這個可能也要特別去說明的部分金額就 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5214.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5240.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
比較高可是看你們怎麼運用那維保的部分可能要說明謝謝好366案同意棉雨山撿凍撿一千萬元經書面報告同意後使得凍資367案接續報告367案機動組結設施會已經同意改列組決議一次委員提供資料之後同意修為組決議好那就改列組決議367案改列組決議368案 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5245.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5250.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
請說明本案進協商建議改3.8百萬元科目自習條約請委員知道好對 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5257.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5278.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
沒有 因為它原來我們凍結數很高啦對 它原來凍結數比較高因為我們覺得好像必要性比較就是跟其他全國軍不一樣那後來檢列800是因為我們現在要特別提醒的就是這個女性同仁在這樣的數量 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5281.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5284.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
可能也要去考量他們的需求因為我們既然買跟其他全軍不太一樣的我們買白色的嘛那應該要怎麼樣而且防手槍的部分這個也要再做一些詳細的一個規劃考量謝謝好那就是改列3-800萬元科目字條 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5301.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5304.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
好第369案369案經委員協商改凍結200萬提出書面報告好369案同意改逆凍結200萬經書面報告後同意或取得凍資370案 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5316.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5324.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
本案列為主決議 懇請委員好 370案列為主決議371案371案 請協商同意預算照列好 371案同意預算照列第372案到373案請檢要說明373案是不是 並案自動現金 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5347.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5358.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
中電軍併案凍結併案凍結200萬所以372案併案373案併案凍結200萬元經書面報告後持的凍資可以嗎同意經同意後持的凍資372跟373我們是 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5378.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5381.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
這個部分我們想要補充一下就行 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5382.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5386.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
這個部分因為DIO是比較特別的其實它是紙商的所以其實廠商拿來展示以後然後給我們試用大概就我們自己決定它到底好不好用所以它的標準其實是比較浮動的有時候它的效益評估就是我們說的投過神就過的那種概念所以為什麼我們會特別去要求說它一開始應該要在對的方向往前走 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5411.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5418.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
那這個要買AI自動化的這個威脅曝險的部分應該基本上買成熟商品回來做測試 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5420.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5445.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
可是就要花一千萬這我們覺得你是成熟商品啊然後回來測試還要花一千萬這是有幾套或者要如何評估這個都必須要清楚的說明謝謝委員這邊首先跟委員報告的部分就是在這個測試的部分我們會一個專責的編組會從上面的這個政策部門到最基層 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5446.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5466.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
的這個官兵然後我們會選擇一個實戰化的場域來做這個測試那就有這個各層面的他的問題的回饋這很重要然後我們會持續要求這個承商做滾動式的修正因為這個網路的威脅變化是很快的所以我們要求他修正來因應這個威脅變化 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5469.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5479.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
後續軟體迭代更新我們希望在這次案子裡面獲得充分的驗證後續作為我們擴大部署的一個參考的依據 以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5480.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5489.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
好那372案並373案那總共是凍結200萬書面報告並經同意後使得凍結不是我們的結論減100凍400372案並373案減逆100萬凍結200萬凍結400萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5505.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5511.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
書面報告已經同意後實列動之科目自調這邊就是請委員這邊能支持凍結兩百萬然後書面報告可以嗎 馬委員還是三 凍結你們就保留協商好了因為你們原來講好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5522.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5525.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
我們很清楚的有提到說你買成熟商品這一個案子原來我們有意見是因為第一你在這個過程當中你一開始編列的預算如果900多萬老實說在國防預算裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5538.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5558.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
佔的非常低的金額可是為什麼我們會重視是因為你這個是廠商拿這個就是直接拿東西來展示然後就給我們試用然後我們決定要不要用或好不好用規格我們還沒有很明確的這些詳細的說明看不到那你 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5559.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5574.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
我們還特別提到說你這個成熟商品買回來做這樣的測試測試就花一千萬我們不知道你到底為什麼要花這麼多那國防部同意也是覺得這個就是凍結一百萬剪一百剪一百欸對 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5587.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5605.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
我們建議第一年全部都不要過好了因為你應該要清楚說明以後你才去用這筆錢我一直強調如果900多萬對我們來說很少可是我們有很多的案例都是後面你綁著十億百億這樣的預算前面可能邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5606.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5612.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
大概甚至幾十萬第一年只變幾十萬你剛剛買車那個也是啊你本來要買車的金額是很高的結果我們同意以後你現在又要變那我覺得這個不合理啦你回來做測試就花一千萬你就買成熟商品就好了因為現在這些都有成熟商品 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5628.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5657.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
那你就不應該用做DIO那如果這樣我們還是按照原來這邊在針對麻煩剛剛的那個承受商品這個部分給你們做一個補充報告那這個部分主要有三個這個子系統那這三個子系統之間彼此其實是一個獨立的那我們希望是說針對這三個有整合然後去關聯到我們需要的整個全貌這個可能網路害侵 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5657.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5680.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
那從這個點到這個線到這個面那整個全貌然後符合我們實際的這些作業需求這才是我們這次這個案子裡面最主要想要達到這個效益評估的一個其中一個目的志通電軍過去花了這麼多的預算有做這些工作嗎你們之前有很多的預算都用在這裡你們有去檢視過嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5682.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5696.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
你現在是說你們現在剛剛提到的那三個那個樣態你們做不到是嗎的意思是這樣子嗎目前是這部分比較欠缺的比較欠缺所以你以前的預算都用在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5696.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5707.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
你們以前編的預算非常高那你這三個你剛剛提到那個都不是很困難的事情結果你們現在說這是比較欠缺的那你應該要重新檢視我們這一次在相關的國防就相關的這些年度預算裡面我們到底用了什麼跟這些是重疊的因為你 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5717.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5735.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
經過這個紙商然後還要拿成熟商品回來測試就要花一千萬然後我們也不知道你拿要拿幾套然後你要怎麼評估我們都不知道所以如果是這樣子那我們這個部分還是原來同意的都已經要變卦了嗎還是要檢列你們想一想 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5744.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5760.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
因為這個案子的部分我們最主要就是說剛剛也提到了我們是要結合這個透過他的這個因為我們之前透過落點掃描往漏洞修補跟衛生監管這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5762.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5786.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
這個當然是有在做但是我們在透過這個資安數據的資料庫來透過資安的數據來收集跟分析系統之外我們還要結合這個AI的這個部分來輔助我們所以我們現在是想要透過這樣的一個結合用我們沒有用這個過那個後面案子什麼就過了我們因為這個就是一個DIO的一個案子然後要經過 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5788.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5816.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
甄選相關的這個適合的廠商嘛然後來做這樣的一個驗測通過了之後才有後續的問題所以這個沒有什麼綁後面的案子的問題那所有現在這些DIO的案子都是在要進行一個效益的評估那這樣的一個效益評估能夠完成才能夠去做那案子的金額本來就不多那所以如果再把這個案子再做一個刪減的話就 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5818.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5832.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
怕不容易來執行所以我們是希望委員是不是能夠統一用凍結的方式讓我們來說明之後然後經統一後使得凍之啦那委員可以嗎再補充一下因為好像沒有清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5833.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5841.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
大概知道我們動山的原因因為你這個是900多萬我們剪裂100萬其實主要是因為在這個過程當中我們過去直通電軍其實編了非常多的相關預算包括今年都還在執行當中還包括很多機密的案子其實都跟這些息息相關而且預算費用高很多所以剪裂100萬其實是讓你們覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5864.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5867.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
這個部分的金額希望你們去好好的做評估事實上對這個不管是哪一個廠商然後他們一百萬對他們來說應該不是重點最重要的是他拿出什麼東西來那這個部分凍結的部分我們是希望這個後續要說明清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5883.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5909.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
因為他絕對不是只有這個900萬的預算他牽涉到後面還有很多不管你是AI自動化還有我們威脅曝險還有所有你們剛剛提到的這些你大概都是已經重複了所以我們不認為說這個部分有這麼必要如果你們堅持的話謝謝委員那個三減的薪額是不是能夠再少一些就 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5912.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5925.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
那我們可以執行嗎這樣三檢再少一點那委員的指導我們會在這個後面書面包括最加強的這個說明到50好 同意謝謝委員謝謝372 373案併案齁那就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5942.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5958.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
以三期案為主案那減五十萬科目自行調整動四百萬書面報告後經同意時的動之是好謝謝再來三期四案同意改列為主決議是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5958.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5985.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
是 就委員所提的指導好 這一案有來說明因為主要這一筆經費是用在權動署的這個叫召所以當然我們希望說這個資通安全的演訓還是要更加的扎實我們也希望能夠轉化為一個具體的一個作為那因為來報告說這筆錢最主要是用在叫召 用在權動署所以這部分我同意就是改為主決議謝謝 謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5987.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6006.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
再三七五案那三七五案跟三七六案吼這分別是陳冠廷委員和馬文君委員並案這個檢列八十萬科目自行調整那就是同意下修三檢八十萬科目自行調整哇 怎麼印那麼多 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6007.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6016.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
377案這邊是馬文君委員所的指導那件請同意比照三軍審查 請行凍結十八一億四千七百六十二萬三千餘元那提後續提書面報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6039.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6060.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
那378到380案三案那這個部分已到這個馬文軍委員和王國元辦公室說明以後同意預算照列那381到385案那軍委馬文軍委員所提那說明如下 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6063.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6069.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
381案的部分同意這個檢列1000萬元科目自行調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6071.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6089.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
382案同意檢列350萬 科目自行調整383案同意檢列委員的指導是免於刪減想要下修洞解析的話對那這個部分因為是陸軍他這個網傳部隊的這個需求那陸軍在現場今天會做個說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6097.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6098.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
麥克風要不要匯進 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6107.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6129.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
委員好 我是陸軍事業部這個案子是三減七百萬因為這個案子總共是一千九百萬我們案子是做在網傳庫住設施這個部分它是強化它的訊號的品質所以建議委員是不是就是凍結七百萬我們陸軍會管制在第三屆辦理決標作業第四屆完成結案付款 以上報告好 那全部都說明完畢了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6137.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6147.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
384分85那384案同意凍結100萬那385案同意下修減列25萬以上請委員指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6154.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6166.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
383的部分我們減列700可是我們還是會動100因為你的那個工程的費用很高然後新增的原因都還沒有說明清楚這個部分我們動解1003700 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6174.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6192.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
388委員 這如果3700之後我們四個網傳的鋼棚會有一個地方就是北部的鋼棚受到影響沒辦法施作那這樣子的話是不是可以同意用凍結的方式我們後續再向委員做協調保留學商好 謝謝委員383是保留學商 不同意383保留學商好 那我們來詳細報導一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6202.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6212.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
從377開始377案比照入海空軍審查結果下修凍結10%114760 十萬三千元然後378解凍制377是凍結嘛對然後提出順便報告並經統一後時的凍制那378案跟379案並 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6230.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6239.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
三七八三七九三八零照列然後三百八十一案是同意下修減三減一千萬元科目字條 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6240.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6247.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
然後383萬減350萬客戶字條383案保留384案是凍結100萬然後書面報告後經同意此的動之385案減25萬元客戶字條是好那386案 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6265.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6269.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
386萬為馬文君委員 那這已同意這個凍結600 提書面報告386萬凍結600萬 經書面報告同意後 使得動之387案到388案 請說明這個分別為馬文君委員 華人委員說明那以獲同意併案凍結1000萬 後續提書面報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6290.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6291.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
那387並388案凍結1000萬經書面報告同意後 387 請說387案凍結1000萬因為這個全案有448億多要從114年到119年 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6309.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6332.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
那115年他本來應該在就預算書的內容他本來應該建置一些相關的雛形裝備比如說發電機還有傳輸骨幹的示範系統等等那這個招標的時候就已經拖了這個相關的期程那規劃書也拖了那什麼時候完成這個先說明一下好請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6339.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6352.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
跟委員說明這個案子我們目前正在上採購計畫的修訂在修完之後會呈報國防部做審查預計年底這邊來完成一處的示範站台這邊跟委員做補充那其他的也都會依照相關的節點來執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6355.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6374.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
因為我們看到這個都已經稍微延宕那這在未來它是不是可以如期的一個完成因為這個可能也會有一些問題環島光纖其實它也有機密性以前都是中科院做的那你現在把它委託出去 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6375.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6385.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
這個部分去年因為去年一整年今年大概也過了一半嘛進度也沒有那以前中科院做的時候有什麼問題嗎因為環島光圈他們已經做過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6388.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6413.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
為什麼現在不是有中科院跟委員報告本案從113年開始建案114年開始執行那也都依照委員的指導我們有採相關的機密採購來做案子的執行所以包含今年的相關的採購部分也都是以機密採購的方式來進行那以往是中科院來執行沒錯但今年我們就是以本次這個案子就是以 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6414.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6438.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
機密採購的方式來做招標來機密採購是你的採購方式啊可是他畢竟是一般的廠商所以他在很多的安全標準上面他當然就不太一樣所以這是我們也質疑的一個部分那另外過去像這種機敏式的機敏性的不管你在營區啦在很多機敏的這些處所其實都是有中科院那這一次不給他做是因為他做的不好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6444.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6449.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
也都是一樣 中科院它也是對 可是你畢竟還是有經過他們嘛那你現在直接違章是因為有什麼樣的狀況這個可能也一併的說明是同意凍結一千萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6458.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6483.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
包委員 中科院其實最後也是為這個外包上來質疑那這個部分我們後續會在這個書面報告裡面做說明就是減少服務費嘛所以未來其實相對的有很多你們大概也會這樣考量對不對所以中科院的角色已經應該會有所調整或改變對那有很多其實也可以啊因為中科院還做很多土建工程啊包委員有要補充的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6486.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6488.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
好 我同意馬委員的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6490.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6517.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
自動電晶的說明強調微波通信採固定頻率的傳輸可是固定頻率在戰時極易遭到敵軍的實施精準的電子干擾所以雖然會使用高方向性的天線遮蔽罩以及當發生頻率干擾立即調整發射的功效的時候但單純提高發射功力在電子戰中只是增加被敵軍 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6519.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6540.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
電站這個徵收定位的一個風險所以此外建制示範站台第一處是不是有足夠體驗驗證到環島第二路由或以現有第一路由之間的一個自動備援切換的一個效能所以這個是一個本身一個疑問所以我跟馬文靜凍結一千萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6542.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6559.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
好387案並388案以馬龍駿委員為主案同意下修凍結一千萬元書面報告並經同意後 使得凍資389案第389案為成冠廷 札韋的提案 已經向札韋辦公室說明同意改列組決議好 同意改列組決議390案到398案 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6567.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6575.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
第390案到390案分別為陳俊委員 王定委員以及王一川委員指導請委員同意修正為主決議請委員指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6581.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6597.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
好 390 390案同意改列組決議391案有講了嗎 還沒有390到392案OK 好 王委員跟這個王定宇委員兩個都王委員王應川委員好 我先 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6599.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6623.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
392案因為國安部已經在今年4月宣布那個三軍停辦軍歌競賽本來編了這個前那希望以後改成這種如果要宣揚這種事情改成比較數位化的讓更多人參與不要再叫阿兵哥在那邊練唱軍歌了那因為國安部已經在4月通令就不在軍內辦了所以這就改成組決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6626.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6647.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
謝謝王議長,然後王定為跟陳俊榮我也好我同意改組決議,但是終止要說清楚這個是有關我們陣戰綜合作業裡面的心腹心腹其實很重要對現代社會,尤其我們不管是職業軍人或者義務役來到部隊裡面,他來自社會 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6647.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6675.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
所以社會的分老越多行為差異的樣態越多那個專業要求越高我們看你們的那個地區新府中心我在這邊質詢太多次都要求要有證照那目前看起來我們證照取得的比例其實還是偏低像這個軍官的取得的證照比例29.85可是士官新府人員取得證照呢104個裡面只有兩個 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6677.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6695.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
那另外呢約聘僱的反而他取得徵照比例是比較高的那所以我們在部隊部隊這種高張力高壓力的環境下那心理上產生的問題第一個我們不應該列入所謂的缺點以往我們的國軍 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6696.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6719.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
官士兵很怕被你安排去看看完之後列個紀錄改天升遷職牙會受影響這觀念要改掉了他就是感冒他就是生病那生病太嚴重不管是肉體或心理的病該休息就休息可是我們以往國軍弟兄很怕被貼上標籤這個第一個要改掉然後我們專業心腹的證照制度可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6720.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6735.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
這個我們政戰局這邊要多一些心力去要求因為民間社會也在缺我不覺得你們可以招募到好的人所以怎麼樣去強化要求甚至於搭配我們那個軍事教育體系裡面去培養 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6736.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6751.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
軍職的官校的或者是他的專業的心腹人員這個未來其實是對部隊內部好穩定很重要甚至於他現在現在向外面因為吸毒導致心理偏差像是那個煙煙彈啊殭屍這種煙彈這種東西那個樣態不是專業的人第一時間還看不出來那你靠那些 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6757.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6786.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
不到2%的具備證照的士官最接近士兵的他怎麼觀察得出來那等到出大事了大家一起連坐這不是我們要的目的所以我可以改組決議但這個題目我們要持續追蹤下去怎麼樣強化專業的訓練甚至這一塊一直招募有問題的話我們的軍事教育體系是不是可以補強這一塊招募一些人而這些人在社會上也需要將來軍職離開回到民間他也可以去處理這是第一個第二個 善用外部資源 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6787.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6814.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
有時候我在部隊裡面沒事找輔導長然後就變成輔導長找你有事所以心理壓力已經大了可能家庭可能身體或者甚至於因為遺傳他很怕在部隊裡面被知道這個情形所以開個轉診單或怎麼樣讓他可以到尋求外部的心腹協助然後那一塊又可以受醫病關係的保護不會影響他在部隊裡面的職涯這個讓我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6816.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6835.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
職業的官士兵這些弟兄姊妹他在心理輔導上可以更放開心而不是在部隊內部體系所以善用外部資源國軍內部的專業證照制度透過教育體系把它建立起來這個是我期待政安局這邊可以強化的部分謝謝王定宇委員接下來請陳俊宇委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6837.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6851.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
我針對390案它本身是國軍新衛機制第二三級的輔導需要有專業證照的部分可是我們到查詢結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6853.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6873.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
114年6月底前這個部分 證照的部分都還沒有很完善我們偵證局也到辦公室說明之後確實有提出相對應的一個解決方式所以我們同意改成組決議可是我們還是持續希望我們偵證局關乎這邊能夠持續來精進這個心理人員的專業培訓 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6878.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6896.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
那足點能夠增加這個相關證照的一個新府人力的取得使我們新府公路回歸專業也能夠提升我們官士兵的一個心理照顧的效能以上謝謝陳俊宇委員393案同意改列組決議391案同意改列組決議392案同意改列組決議那393案請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6906.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6927.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
三百九十三案為陳菊委員指導 同意預算照列 請委員指導三百九十三案同意預算照列 三百九十四案三百九十四案到三百九十六案為劉喜廷委員 林楚英委員及黃仁委員指導 經過說明完畢 請委員同意修正為主決議三百九十四案 三百九十五案 三百九十六案同意改列主決議之前 林楚英委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6928.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6942.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
我的提案是395案喔其實本席是一直非常關注就是中國在社群媒體上面的操作我想在質詢的當中我也特別都有多次的說明喔那麼當然你們的回應是說征戰局是已經把所謂的新型態的樣態尤其是中國滲透的方式都透過教材內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6951.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6955.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
提防就是來加強我們國軍的心防但是就像我之前質詢也有提出來就是像僑社他會用假的僑社的方式然後來徵求軍裝也就是他們其實都不斷的在用新型態的手法所以我希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6969.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6996.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
真戰局在對於這些教材的部分能夠持續的精進然後做觀察所以我同意變成主決議但是我不動預算不表示說就覺得你們在這個過程中做得很好我還是希望你們能夠持續的在教材內容上面能夠隨時掌握這些脈動然後能夠來做精進謝謝委員指導謝謝委員394到396案都是同意改列主決議397案 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6999.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7019.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
397案、398案分別由馬雲君委員、陳冠廷委員指導 已說明完畢 建請同意併案凍結200萬元提出宿命報告並經同意後凍結 請委員指導好 那397案、398案那就用我的398案為主案那併案凍結200萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7025.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7051.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
順便報告並經同意後 使得動之399案399案到400案為牛雪婷委員執導也說明完畢 同意預算照列好 399案到400案同意預算照列 王委員也同意預算照列好 399 400案同意預算照列 4001案4001案為王安祥委員執導 同意修訂為主決議 請委員執導 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7053.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7074.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
所以我稍微說一下因為這個我在質詢裡面就是君子爸爸君子媽媽他們現在對這個請假其實有一些期待所以希望國防部這邊能夠在法制面上做一些規劃尤其像志願寺的部分讓他們因為外面企業其實趨勢都是這樣我們為了少子女化可以多給他們一些協助希望國防部能夠給我們一些報告以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7075.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7084.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
謝謝王委員那就是同意改列為主決議402案403案為馬雲君委員執導已經說明完畢同意預算遭列402案同意預算遭列403案403案為牛許廷委員執導已說明完畢同意修訂為主決議請委員執導403案同意改列主決議404案403案為馬雲君委員執導已說明完畢同意預算遭列請委員執導403案同意預算遭列405案 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7104.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7121.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
405案為滿意 請委員知道已說明完畢 同意3-300萬元科目自行調整 請委員知道405案同意下修3-300萬元科目字條406案405案為黃人委員知道已說明完畢 同意修訂為主決議 請委員知道406案同意改列主決議 407案 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7125.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7131.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
407案委員馬文君委員指導一項委員方式說明以獲得同意預算招列君委員指導402同意預算請馬委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7137.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7141.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
這個部分我們有同意他預算照列不過因為他每年增加的那個開會的金額或者出國的金額都一直在增加那這一次也增加了300萬我們看到他大概實際出國有5次 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7156.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7178.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
那有兩次印太一次台美工業還有一次台美軍備交流還有一次是歐洲可是我們發現歐洲都只去立陶宛這個部分我們也希望可以再說明一下那其他國家或者為什麼都只是限於單一的國家這個部分還是應該要說明清楚謝謝同意照列 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7182.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7185.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
好 謝謝407 同意照列408 請說明408 為毛岸軍委員針對中科院軍職的部分一項委員說明請同意改為主決議408 同意改列主決議409 案 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7202.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7224.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
409案委員陳靜遠針對整合靠譜會科技的重點也向委員說明建請同意預算照列410案委員黃仁委員針對國防工業產業合作的一個能量評估也向委員說明建請同意改列為主決議請委員知道409案同意預算照列410案同意改列主決議那411案請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7230.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7242.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
411案為羅美琳委員針對國軍營地被非法佔用已向委員說明建請同意改為主決議412案及414案為劉委員及王委員針對中科院民雄營區的一個整體開發本委已經向委員說明建請同意預算照列413案為馬文君委員針對中科院民雄航太營區的開發已向委員說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7257.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7280.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
這個部分有委員有一個下修的一個凍結的一個金額我們請仲坤來說明一下針對民雄園區的委員提案凍結已議書面報告後動之仲坤可以接受好來我們來宣告從411案411案同意改列組決議412案同意預算照列413案 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7288.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7313.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
這個民俊航太園區想跟馬文俊委員還是來稍微溝通一下我們是不是可以再稍微少一些些馬文可以嗎沒有只是因為是我們選區嘛所以就是我們很希望他可以發展得很好其實我們一直跟趙薇陳昭薇一直在關切這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7313.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7317.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
我們希望他做好我們一直有提到因為這是第一是國防預算第二中科院其實並不是專業單位像過去科學園區是國科會負責然後我們產業園區是經濟部管的這些我們台灣都發展得非常好照理說我們很希望其實是由專業單位來開發 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7336.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7339.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
那另外就是說在整個預算這個高達六十八億五千九百萬非常高的預算金額那今年他雖然編的預算不是那麼高可是他牽動後面有總體預算九十八億多六十八億多而且 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7354.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7359.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
對我們未來的一些無人機產業的發展其實也非常重要所以我們希望他一開始其實是好好的大家去做更好的規劃那另外我們凍結的原因很簡單就是你再怎麼規劃然後你要怎麼蓋然後要蓋多少廠房或者可不可以符合民間的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7374.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7379.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
因為如果我們不是專業的我們很難知道說明天到底需要什麼我們到現在還沒有看到相關的規劃而且他如果要損益兩平聽說要至少45年正常狀況之下所以當然我們有很多國家的預算他不是去考量我們是要盈利可是你至少如果他發展得很好你才有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7397.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7406.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
在這個損益兩平的情形會提早這個部分我們需要完整的一些規劃跟報告跟說明好 那王委員好 這一個案子我是跟陳冠廷召委立場一樣不要動輒那麼多啦其實這一個月國安部都有來報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7422.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7437.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
都已經有進度啦 然後進度看起來都很順利啦那不要動這麼多 要好好做事情因為這個民雄無人機對嘉義影響很大啦對民雄這個地方也影響很大 要拜託一下啦那如果院長應該不會影響到進程嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7443.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7447.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
413.凍結一億書面報告金同意或使得凍值414.同意預算照列415.前說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7464.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7479.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
本案委員尼委員針對國軍營舍的設施的改建以移交土地的活化已經向委員說明了建請同意預算策略請知道請說明這我還是要說一下啦因為軍備局很多閒置的土地嘛那大家講好就是說要移交給國產署嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7480.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7499.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
但移交給國產署之後其實大部分的土地很多土地是沒有進行合理的處分我們當然都希望閒置的公有地能夠合理的活化做什麼當然因地制宜但是要有合理的活化的一些進度某一些層面你有銀改基金等等如果有有效的活化譬如借給人家做停車場或者是什麼賺點錢也不錯稍微補充一點點經費的不足但你如果這只是移交給國產署 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7503.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7532.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
直接移交到國產署之後就沒有然後了丟給國產署處理國產署大概也沒那麼大的量能跟等等去做處理的時候那就變成只是把它轉出去然後你的銀改基金的收入我想也會受到一定的限制所以本席提這個案子就是關心這樣的一個事情啦那因為改組決議沒什麼問題但我希望這國防部這邊要積極主張啊我哪些東西我其實可以做預算照列是沒有問題的但我的意思是說這部分大家上點心嘛就是說我在這部分我除了移交之外我也要積極主張啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7533.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7555.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
我會想說可以創造收益的時候我也要積極促成好 我們希望看到這樣的事那我們作為選區的民意代表有一些地方上民意的需求市政府建設的需求可以做合理的媒合我們就積極促進但我不要積極促進的時候國防部也消極 國產署也消極那完蛋了嘛 好不好我提這案子的用意是這個希望大家可以了解我們再充分來做溝通 以上好 謝謝劉委員同意預算照列416案 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7561.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7565.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
416項為馬文君委員針對治安疫情的工程理事長委員說明了 建請同意預算策略 請指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7569.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7573.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
謝謝主席 這個案子雖然我們同意照列可是它調漲的那個預算金額非常高這四個單位進駐有國安會、速發部、資安院跟直通電軍那這個資安園區原本我們國防部引改基金負擔是20億可是現在突然要增加 這是暴增 增加成32億從20億到20億變成32億 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7598.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7614.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
所以他的全案金額從54億要調漲成多少這個總金額多少我們再跟委員說明你們還沒變對啊 預算沒變啊沒變你怎麼預算沒變啊我們增加支出變成我們要多付12億因為我們本來是20億變成32億23億 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7632.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7654.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
跟委員報告我是軍備局工程營產處那有關資安園區的整個編列預算是54億其中公共建設經費是編32億引改基金是21億那整個這個預算從執行到現在都沒有變過我們有增加預算嗎我們引改基金有增加預算嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7655.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7671.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
沒有就是211就一直都是沒有增加確定沒有增加是是是好好謝謝同意預算照列416案來第417案跟418案417跟418案分別為林委員跟黃任委員針對無人載具多元的開發計畫已向委員說明建請同意併案凍結1000萬提出書面報告後使得凍資請知道黃委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7683.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7698.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
因為本席擔心的是這一筆經費的一個龐大不希望變成花大錢說大話最後成果有限的一個計畫那根據軍備局的一個說明資料要借盡烏俄戰爭的一個經驗解決GPS的一個干擾 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7702.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7719.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
目標的偵測的問題烏鱷戰爭都這麼多年了那前線反干擾的技術日系業役結果我們還研究到117年才能確認我們的技術是不是成熟這樣一個落後技術的問題是不是也 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7721.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7736.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
這個間接證明各種金種現在或是未來用特別預算打算用各種無人機根本缺乏足夠的一個反干擾的一個能力所以這個就是我們今天產生的一個質疑那動心動血也要一千萬417案 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7743.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7764.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
這本席本來是動比較多啦但是跟黃仁委員商量一下稍微少動一點這是沒有問題的但一樣嘛這既然跟無人機相關有關這本席也是建議啦大家就是列入這無人機的專報啦專報之後再解凍好不好你稍微報告一下那個417418和馬文君委員後面提的421其實都是無人載機的統籌方案計畫我們建議一併討論好嗎那417 418 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7771.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7774.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
C7 C8變421那同意是去做三檢全案嗎421檢列5000動5000嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7788.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7804.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
四二一的話是檢列五千棟五千這樣子你願意這樣不是不是不是四二一無人載具的統籌多元開發整合計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7813.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7824.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
總金額是10.1億那現在直接減列5000的話我們第一年編了5億如果減列5000我們這11項技術我們真的很難做下去會有很大的風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7826.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7836.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
我們從前面開始講好了因為你說有11項主席可以嗎從419跟是嗎417 418跟421我們一起討論417 418跟421併案討論中所以麻煩要不要先看一下417 418跟421 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7860.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7870.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
好 謝謝 421的部分它這個部分無人載具前瞻技術多元整合開發計畫全案大概有10億115年就編了5億剛剛有特別提到說大概有11項的關鍵技術我們剛剛為什麼我說要看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7880.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7887.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
420跟419就是相關的有很多我們的開發計畫不好意思開發計畫的一些相關的關鍵技術我們都已經執行很久我們特別針對這個無人載具來說好了之前有快啟的案子這個大概也花 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7903.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7906.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
也花掉8.6億,它的關鍵技術哪裡不足因為它也是無人載具前瞻技術的這些開發案那另外還有無人機的部分,因為剛剛快啟是無人艇無人機有紅雀兼兵、瑞淵、騰雲、劍翔從小到大的無人機也都做過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7927.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7928.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
我們現在要問的是你無人載具前瞻技術到底還欠缺什麼因為你在無人艇的部分也做了無人機的部分也做了還有很多我們之前有一些相關的機器人的一些開發計劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7943.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7950.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
也做了那這些很多都是無人載具相關的關鍵技術我們現在要知道到底有什麼樣的內容因為看不出來另外要做到什麼樣的程度那你現在我們過去花這麼多的錢他到底不足的部分在哪裡這些都應該要清楚的說明那如果以10億那減5000萬應該不是很大的金額因為你過去已經花掉很多錢了 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7980.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7995.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
這11項關鍵技術是一直都存在的技術只是它必須要不斷的進步無人載具它就是這樣發展我舉一個例子第一個計畫是慣性導航儀經濟部產發署針對慣性導航儀跟我們的要求是它的size大小重量 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7996.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8014.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
價格要比現在降50%可是它的功率要比現在大50%所以我們花十億多三年的時間去做這個技術為什麼會在第一年就編了一半以上因為在第一年我們必須要在硬體還有軟體的演算法上就要全力投入所以我們用凍結來取代三減請委員支持 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8019.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8027.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
好謝謝院長補充一下關心導航其實你包括你在飛彈或者其他的部分其實你都都有用的如果要講到無人載具除了剛剛說的無人艇跟無人機以外我們中科院其實過去在 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8035.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8041.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
飛彈或者相關的一些武器系統裝備其實也都有所以剛剛舉的這個例子慣性導航的部分我們一直在講它到底還有哪裡不足那如果過去花這麼多錢用這麼長的時間都沒有辦法做好那你現在一年就想要把它達到功率增加50%然後你的價格降低50%我們覺得這個好像有點天方夜譚 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8061.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8079.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
就是你在過去百億千億這樣子花都沒有達到這樣的效果那你今年會有這樣的效果如果今年被減劣我不認為尤其是五千萬的金額而已對你們來說五億應該要結合過去的一些相關的技術成果去做一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8081.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8093.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
去一些總整因為不然感覺你是從頭做你過去如果已經有這麼多的關鍵技術已經花了這麼多錢已經做了那麼久我覺得應該這一個部分還是沒有辦法可以說服 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8094.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8098.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
來李院長我這邊說明一下他這個這一個計劃他是屬於經濟部的一個統統計劃裡面的一部分那由經濟部他等於說預算他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8112.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8131.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
由他們提列之後然後外加到我們國防預算裡面所以是對但是預算還是放到沒有還是由國防部來來來編列的那這個部分的11項的前瞻技術也都是經過跟國科會經濟部跟國防部還有中科院之間討論出來那 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8133.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8152.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
弄出來之後還要透過技術移轉給廠商來帶動我們無人機的產業發展所以這個部分的錢中科院它有負責要將這個等於說TIL的技術備援水準要把它提升到一個程度那這個部分還是請委員能夠支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8155.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8166.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
我們可不可以今年因為他是三年級的計劃我們今年先凍結然後下個會期我們會做一個今年第一年的詳細的狀況的報告再看可不可以解凍你保留嗎好417418421案保留然後419案 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8183.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8200.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
就并案保留吗419及420案为马文君委员分别针对公立设平的一个发展跟野战全身动力外骨骼系统的开发计划已经跟委员充分的说明建请同一并列改为主决议请委员指导 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8202.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8221.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
419跟420我們後來同意照列主要的原因是因為像我們現在又剛剛推回剛剛那個案子我們一直在強調無人載具我們已經花了很多的錢那你過去的經驗累積我們看不到用在什麼地方我們一直 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8222.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8242.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
提到說你現在不管是誰要我們出這筆錢可是你原來的關鍵技術照理說已經累積很多了我們剛剛唸了一堆從小到大的無人機還有你的無人艇其實都已經開發出來而且你們告訴我們它的成果非常好所以你在特別預算裡面也想編《瑞淵二行》 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8243.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8264.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
瑞淵二想要繼續推動就表示其實你有很多的技術是很不錯的如果除非有一個是假的那你吳仁廷也是你也告訴我們說做得非常好那這些關鍵技術都已經出來你又說還不夠然後想要讓他更好那好在哪裡我們看不到那我們以這419跟420來看好了公立電子社平產業應用發展計畫這個全案2億 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8272.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8273.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
115年是最後一年了吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8276.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8300.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
一一五年最後一年一一五年最後一年這個從一一二到一一五年他總共全案是兩億到現在其實你已經用到一億九了可是在最後一年你卻減列一千一百七十二萬我們要知道成果在哪裡雖然我們同意照列因為已經是最後一年可是你的成果在哪裡這是做功率放大器的原件開發那你會減少預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8304.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8307.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
會有幾個原因第一個做不下去現況結案第二個有成熟的發展直接就是用他人的成果成功的發展那第三個就是編太多不需要這麼多錢那總是有一個原因你已經把預算減下來在最後一年這是我們同意趙烈可是改為主學藝這也是我們說要呼應剛剛 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8328.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8335.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
我們保留協商的那個案子就無人載具的部分另外420也是也佔全身型動力外骨骼系統的開發這個全案要一億四千萬這個過去我們也有第一階段已經開發過了我們的外骨骼現在這個是第二階段又花又編了一億四千萬那可是你在倒數第二年我們之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8353.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8359.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
你也在減劣預算就跟剛剛那個案子一樣你預算也減下來減一千多萬那一億四你都可以兩個都可以這樣減那就是你之前已經花掉大半的預算了那它的成果呢我們要知道成果到底在哪裡不然到最後你們現在又起一個新案的時候又編了很多的預算然後告訴我們說那個很重要那外骨骼現在其實大家都看到很多國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8379.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8392.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
他的那個機器人都已經非常成熟了所以如果我們還在做這種外骨骼我們現在的研發的方向老實說大概已經落後了所以就這個部分他到底是什麼原因也必須提出來這個成果展示所以就這兩個案子我們再反推回來我們烏鎮載具也是就已經都花了很多錢那你總是有一個原因到最後一年為什麼把預算減掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8406.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8415.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
這個原因在哪裡這個也是呼應我們這個部分要檢列五千跟動五千的原因所以希望你們想清楚好謝謝419案並420案預算照列還是 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8424.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8431.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
一個主決議是哪一個是主決議是兩個併為主決議是兩個併為主決議主決議是419案420案併案然後併成一案改列主決議好呃422案到426案請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8441.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8459.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
第422案為林楚瑩委員針對於高雄總醫院發生系統當機事件提出指導現在已經開放了不斷鏈系統並採取雙迴路供電問題改善委員已同意改列組決議好林委員請說明謝謝好我提到的這個高雄總醫院 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8460.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8489.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
基本上我不是針對這個個案啦而是我希望透過這一次的提案應該是請軍醫局要前面的檢討各個國軍醫院的電源系統因為我們知道如果在平時的話各個國軍醫院它所肩負的這個所謂醫療上面的量能很重要但是如果到了戰時的時候它更是很重要的一個指揮中心所以一旦跳電就很多的系統都無法如期進行所以我同意改成主決議但是希望你們針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8490.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8506.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
設備老舊或者是需要汰換應該要有一個事前的掌握那麼備援跟銜接的部分也應該要做一個處理好嗎謝謝林委員那請協助林委員這些事情那同意改列組決議423案 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8517.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8532.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
423萬為毛英軍委員針對我們的電子商票等三項的採購的編列的明細需求規格還有這個預期的成效那感謝委員的指導那本案已經向委員說明了阿進請委員同意這個下修動並424案對 凍結500萬並向委員提出書面報告好 423跟424好 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8541.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8558.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
這個部分我們同意凍結五百萬不過這個裡面有很多的問題我們也希望軍醫局可以說明清楚因為這個從115年到117年要執行的這個電子商票的部分這個全案總共八千多萬那115年 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8562.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8573.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
編列的部分我們希望一開始這個大概分為傷患用的急救人急救用的還有韌性節點的裝置還有醫療後送管理系統那我們一般看到這個其他國家其實都已經有很成熟的產品了我們為什麼不直接買這是第一個我們還要做這樣子的這也是用DIO的模式嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8589.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8608.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
你還要所以有特別不同的因為你電子商票還有APP的軟體然後對他就是採購嘛所以其實他已經其他國家都是戴在手上我們特別選擇戴在緊掛式的他特別的原因是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8611.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8619.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
穿戴式的部分有很多種不過這個緊掛式的部分來講也是因應我們現在這個發現的部分來講它這個這樣的裝置的時候它本身自己的儲電量等等還有我們的APP我們特別提醒是因為包括美國包括其他日本可能韓國很多國家大家都用了很多國家而且這個也是非常成熟的產品那大家都選擇掛在手上它一定有它的一個特別的想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8639.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8642.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
因為既然如果他不好的話人家就不會這麼選擇那我們會去挑選不一樣的你必須要有一個充分的說明另外這個APP的軟體還有你像在醫療量能後送管理系統我們還要買平板電腦 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8657.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8662.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
萬一5G、4G中斷的時候因為在戰場上最容易發生就是我們的網路斷線所以第一你暫時要怎麼傳輸你軍民又沒有辦法通這是第一點第二個你有三千多個精藥醫療人員大概三千多個可是你的軟體才買一千多個所以到時候你是兩個人用一個那你精藥就買一千多個就好了啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8682.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8685.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
這也是一個問題第三個就是說你載台說是要用自己的手機可是到時候你要怎麼跟軍網通這個到目前你們都還沒有辦法說明清楚的還有醫療量能的管理就是說你要記錄傷員的這個要做這樣的記錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8702.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8723.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
因為記錄商員然後你要去回傳或用平板電腦去記錄這不是急救人員的還有救護人員還有醫療人員的工作所以我們去建置這個也很奇怪所以就這個部分我們先凍結可是我們剛剛提到的這些全部都要有一個清楚的說明謝謝馬委員那423案病422423病424 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8735.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8736.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
電子商票可能會面臨治安 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8754.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8769.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
一個防護與保密的一個干擾的一個挑戰電子商票傳說是國軍官兵的一個身份那商情即使未知如果遭劫或是一個破譯 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8770.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8790.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
那敵軍就可能立刻的知道我軍戰傷的一個狀況部隊人數在現代電子戰的一個環境下那戰場上的GPS以無線通信隨時可能會被敵軍強力的一個干擾那如果通信斷絕電子商票能不能轉為離線一個模式 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8795.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8811.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
這個暫存的一個資料通信恢復後如果自動同步如果遇到複雜電波干擾的一個癱瘓那是不是數位裝備反而不知道傳統的一個資本所以這個就是我們要凍結五百萬的一個原因謝謝黃委員那請終於報告的時候來回應這個黃委員關切的議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8815.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8823.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
那我們軍醫局審完之後我們先休息五分鐘那我們繼續425萬請說明好 145萬馬雲軍委員對針對戰備的這個部分來提出所以感謝委員指導我們本案的這個同意委員的提案減列500萬那科目執行調整好 425萬減列500萬科目執行調整426案請說明426案感謝委員指導我們向委員說明後同意這個預算招聯 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8842.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8864.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
426案同意預算照列427案425案是什麼3-500萬科目字條簡略500對好那427案427案感謝委員指導本案已經向委員說明建議同意預算照列427案同意預算照列428案 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8866.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8873.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
428案 感謝委員指導 本案已向委員說明 建議同意預算照列429案 同意預算照列 430案到432案 請說明430案 感謝委員指導 本案已向委員說明 建議同意預算照列430案 同意預算照列 431案 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8893.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8897.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
430項感恩委員指導本頁向委員說明建請同意下修簡列2000萬科目進行調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8900.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8922.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
431案 同意下修3減2000萬元科目字條 432案432案 建請委員下修簡列247萬元 凍結1000萬元並向委員提出書面報告 經同意後 使得動之 簡列科目 自行調整432案 同意下修3減247萬元科目字條 凍結1000萬元 經書面報告 同意後 使得動之 433案 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
8924.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
8930.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
433案 感謝委員指導 本案已向委員說明 建請同意預算照列433案同意預算照列 那我們現在休息五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9180.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9180.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
這裏是一間餐廳 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9207.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9223.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9227.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9232.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
這裏有個大廈 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9257.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9258.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
我們繼續開會 時間已經到了嗎 434案請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9284.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9312.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
434案之前已經到黃仁委員辦公室說明過了那經同意改列為主決議同意改列主決議435案請說明435案跟436案兩個是併案在一起處理那435案分別就是沈伯陽委員他提的就是要讓我們這個全民防衛動員這個資訊要普及那我們也在我們的這個網站上面已經公告了綱領這部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9313.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9342.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
那436萬就是羅美穎委員所提的就是我們的那個全民安全指引應該要再擴大來照顧弱勢那我們也在這個架構之下建置了這個無障礙的3A等級的這個台灣安全指引網頁那也協調內政部在他們的這個身心障礙專區要把這些相關的資訊再把它納進去讓更多的這個弱勢族群能夠來使用所以這兩個都是主決議好 我們請沈博洋委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9343.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9359.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
好 那我說明一下這個435案就是我覺得我們在這個省這個國防預算的時候最常遇到民眾的誤解大概兩大類第一大類就是跟無人機有關無人載具第二大類其實就是跟這個全民動員全民防衛有關 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9362.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9376.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
今天現在是在講全民防衛那我覺得這個全動數如果能夠再積極一點讓這些比較困難的一些知識讓全民能夠了解那這個可以減緩人民對全民防衛的誤解我最主要是因為這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9377.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9397.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
因為這個其中都說明過了除了這個動員準備剛臨每兩年測班一次之外希望他會有更白話的版本那我知道選動署人力上其實也是吃緊所以在看盡量用一些比較活潑或創新的方式可以在網路上盡量讓人民知道那我們就讓這個謠言能夠停止那這個台主決議我沒有意見 謝謝謝謝沈委員 接下來請盧委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9400.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9418.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
好 我們權動署推動的這個台灣全民安全指引我們又發現這個指引當中它其實是其實是缺乏對於弱勢族群比如說像長者 身心障礙者還有孩童它都缺乏了具體的安全的指引所以我們希望說權動署可以跟相關的單位來做一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9420.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9433.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
討論之後能夠做一個補強讓這個弱勢的民眾呢都可以了解災難發生的時候他要如何去求助跟自救那這部分呢我436案呢我同意改成主決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9434.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9438.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
好 435案 436案 併案改列組決議那由這個陳伯陽委員為主案437案請說明437案並439案兩個都跟委員說明過同意併案凍結500萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9456.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9463.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
好 王委員 統一併動好 謝謝437併439由王安祥委員為主案併動兩百萬元併動四三七跟四三九併動五百萬元那經書面報告 經統一後主席 439要說明一下好 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9477.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9478.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
好439同意凍結500萬不過因為這個預算115年編了5580萬那再比114年增加了3520萬我們看到這個相關的內容他大概就是要每個村裡會要辦講習那還有就是買緊急避難包這個部分我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9503.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9518.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
不同意就是買避難包的部分因為花費的金額非常高而且避難包我們在很多的單位其實已經買很多了那你這個預算裡面你光是這個就佔了一千六百多萬反而每個村裡去辦講習每個縣市才給三十萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9523.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9525.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
那30萬如果像我們那裡有13個鄉鎮你每個縣市30萬一個鄉鎮才2萬多塊你要去全部辦講習我覺得這個本末倒置了所以就這個部分我們希望他用在比較對的地方他怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9544.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9553.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
讓所有的民眾所有的人民其實很清楚的知道如果在很多特殊情況不管是戰爭發生或者像災害發生的時候應該要有怎麼樣的一個避難的準備或者應該要有什麼樣的因應要把錢用在這個地方而不是去買這些什麼避難包的部分而且你避難包這個才買幾個而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9568.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9580.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
只能買幾個所以它的用途到底是什麼這個部分我們要求一定要做修正437案並439案以437案為主案凍結500萬元書面報告經統用時的凍值430請問國防部435案436案是否合併一個主決議還是兩個主決議一個主決議好那4235 436合併為一個主決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9597.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9612.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
那現在438案438跟44棟這兩個案子都有跟委員說明過那委員是同意照列好 438案同意預算照列 440案同意預算照列接下來我們處理第440 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9614.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9635.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
441案跟委員說明過是同意減列200萬那科目自行調整免於凍結441案下3減200萬元科目自調442案442案跟委員說明過之後委員是同意預算3減2000萬科目自行調整442案3減2000萬科目自行調整443案 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9646.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9665.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
443案經過跟委員說明後下修凍結的預算為六千萬提出市面報告並經同意後使得凍結443案同意改例凍結六千萬元經市面報告同意後使得凍結444案跟委員說明後只有三減五百萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9667.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9672.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
444案3.5百萬科目字條445案那445案3.15百萬然後免於凍結科目字條445案3.15百萬科目字條446案446案3.5百萬科目字條46案3.5百萬科目字條447案447案3.2千萬免於凍結科目字條447案3.2千萬科目字條448案 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9697.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9707.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
448案也到委員辦公室說明過了那委員也同意科目照列448案同意科目照列預算照列 抱歉 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9712.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9725.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
449那449案也跟委員說明過了委員同意預算照列449案同意預算照列450案450案已經向王定委員說明同意依委員提案辦理凍結100萬提出書面報告後凍結 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9729.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9744.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
請委員說明我這一次同意凍結一百萬但是國防大學其實溝而不通我們尊重軍事院校教育體系原來的軍事文化但是國防大學在於學術管理上其實是會鬧笑話的 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9747.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9766.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
那個教授去指導學生也列為校外兼職去評論文叫校外兼職擔任自己家的社區管理委員會的委員叫校外兼職這個 王安祥委員在這邊啦這簡直是虐待勞工啦學術界殊勝的聽到這一定會笑那講那麼久了就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9766.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9793.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
之前反而跟中國那邊合謀在那邊開公司還用學校開董事會的那個弄那麼久結果現在矯枉過正把裡面的文職的軍職的教育人員我坦白講這個管理連放到部隊都不應當何況是軍事院校你們那個校外兼差職在教育部對於文學校的教職人員有一套管理辦法我們原來就應該是比照那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9794.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9819.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
後來不知道從什麼時候開始校外去參加什麼戰略學會義務職的叫兼職同樣擔任政府之間的委員叫校外兼職然後管到我後來看真的受不了是看到你們連自己家裡面社區管委會不小心選上了他如果沒有報備你們是要處分的耶自己家的社區管委會委員擔任委員叫做兼差 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9821.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9839.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
你們知道也不對你們今天來列席怪罪你們其實也不厚道啦不是你們的錯啦我坦白講不要管得像北洋軍閥在管部隊一樣這個真的會鬧學術圈的笑話那另外我們再不影響我們的邊接增加一個文職的學術副校長 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9840.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9855.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
來專職學術那你們也樂見這個本席表達表達肯定那我們也希望我們能盡速趕快排審那只修改一個條文就增加一個學術的副校長去管理這個學術上的業務他也了解學術界這樣會比較好那我們這個這個排審還在等這個委員會來排審所以那部分來修訂那這一次同意凍結100萬如果到 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9863.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9872.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
我們很快九月份又要審明年度的預算如果到時候還是這個樣子的話那我會請我們委會同仁可能我們對國防大學 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9873.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9894.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
那就到處來看怎麼刪減 讓你們有改善的依據吧否則這樣一直勾而不通 這個很可笑的一件事啦好 謝謝委員報告一下那個管委會那個部分已經修 已經現在都是免申請同意的項目其他的其他部分我們想 我們會提出順便報告跟委員說明 好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9900.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9926.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
謝謝主席剛剛有幾個案子我們都同意招列不過因為我們有看到其實像三個案子我們減列兩千還有減列一千五還有一個減列五百的部分光是這三個案子標語款就高達四千萬那可見其實我們在編預算的時候因為我們這個買的東西好像也都是像搬用帳篷啊單賓個人帳啦或者像這些裝備 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9929.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9945.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
大概都是相關的這種裝備而已那其實這個應該都是很容易就可以去知道他們的單價那所以在編列預算的時候我們還是希望可以更精實一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9947.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9968.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
好 450案 凍結100萬書面報告後 實在動之 451案451案為環南委員提案 已向委員辦公室實施說明 已同意修訂為主決議451案同意改例主決 452案452案為馬洪君委員提案 已同意預算照列 請委員知道452案同意預算照列 453案 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9973.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9997.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
453案到456案軍委馬文軍委員提案向馬文軍委辦公室實施說明第453案已經同意改為預算照列請委員知道453案同意預算照列454案到456案請說明454案這個向委員說明後同意改列預算凍結1000萬元提出書面報告後使得動之454案凍結1000萬元經書面報告同意後使得動之455案 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10003.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10008.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
455萬向委員說明後同意改列預算凍結下修100萬元455萬凍結100萬元456萬經書面報告後同意此的動之456萬請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10019.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10027.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
是456案同意預算下修凍結100萬元提出順便報告後此的動之456案凍結100萬元提出順便報告並同意後此的動之主席就這三個案子我們同意改凍結不過這幾個還是希望我們國防大學可能針對幾個 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10043.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10054.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
計劃的內容其實可能要去做一些修正或者要去檢討那第一個就是我們看到這個中正嶺跟復興崗校區室內體育教學設施整建的這個部分因為像中正的體育館它的廁所跟淋浴間的整建要花掉五百五百五十幾萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10069.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10092.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
這費用非常高那其實大家在裡面使用這個部分的應該應該這個看起來會過度豪華吧這個可能要檢討一下為什麼要別佔這麼高的預算那另外復興崗的部分像他會議室試聽教室辦公室他也花了300多萬因為還有廁所浴室的整建也花要花 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10092.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10096.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
大概六百萬所以這個會議室跟廁所預測整建他就用掉將近一千萬可是你這個是做體育館就體育館的體育設施的改善結果你通通把它用在這個部分所以你還不如有很多的錢因為是學校我們希望可以支持可是你們用在對的地方你還不如多用在實質教學的改善或者 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10119.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10123.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
怎麼樣讓它在這個像他們的如果是體育館它相關的設施應該要也是應該要用在相關體育設施上面而不是你體育館裡面要什麼會議室跟視聽教室還有辦公室這也很怪吧就是這些部分要一併的說明或檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10139.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10147.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
那另外就這個國防大學也是營建工程的這個部分現在專案也正在進行一般都是蓋好以後會順便拆那這個部分我們這個案子餐廳跟軍官的宿舍像他學生宿舍只蓋不拆而且還編 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10159.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10175.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
公務預算拆這是我們覺得比較不能理解因為當時你在蓋新房子的時候你把舊的拆掉照理說你就應該要把它清掉了你怎麼會後面又要特別編公務預算來做這個部分另外我們要蓋新的教學大樓這是115年到121年的部分那全案32億7千萬可是第一年只編了615萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10184.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10211.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
那第二年跟第三年也都是編幾百萬等於你115年到121年這前三年好像沒什麼事做你都是編幾百萬 幾百萬 幾百萬總金額是32億多所以其實你們這個部分大概在所以我們常常會發現有些到最後其實我們的工程會延宕的原因這個可能佔很大的一個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10212.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10215.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
這個教學大樓為什麼要設計這麼久或者要規劃這麼久或者前面的整個前置作業為什麼要三年這個也要檢討一下那另外一個案子也是蓋多功能的活動中心你前面已經有體育館了那兩者的功能是不是應該要去統籌的規劃因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10234.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10251.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
在教學項目上面去盡量提升因為經費對學校來說都得來不易那現在有這樣的經費我們希望去做一些通盤的檢討把它落實在更需要的地方這是我們同意凍結的理由那也希望提出完整的規劃說明謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10253.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10266.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
好謝謝黃委員那接下來457案457案為黃國均委員提案已自委辦公室說明後同意改為預算照列請委員知道457案同意預算照列458案 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10269.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10282.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
第458案 由黃文均委員提案 經同意下修三檢額度為500萬元 凍結下修額度為500萬元 科目自行調整 提出順便報告後此的動之 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10286.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10289.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
458案我們同意凍結500然後減劣500吧這個部分因為我們看到這個整個預算一年2億可是我們用在教學器材上面看起來是真的很少 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10302.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10306.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
大部分都用在硬體上面因為好像看起來只有理工學院他會買一些實驗器材啊教學器材可是有很多是用在比較奇怪的地方比如說不斷電系統各單位各買各的有的人買9000有的買8600可是也有人買到13000像這種小金額的價差就這麼高我覺得這個可能要稍微給他統一一下因為你是整體在運作嘛那像一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10332.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10341.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
這一筆錢其實是充實學校教育設備的可是我們發現這裡面有拿來買高爾夫球的器材有買籃球有買網球有買羽球還有買重訓器材還有買桌球還有游泳器材游泳器材要什麼 救生圈嗎500 挖鞋 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10356.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10380.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
補版跟挖鞋因為我們看到因為這是教學用的一些預算我們希望它真的是用在這裡我剛剛念了一堆大概都是運動、重訓、球類什麼不是不應該做一些體育設施可是我們看起來比如說高爾夫球器材這個是對我們學校的幫助是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10381.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10397.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
所以這個部分我們希望做一個修正跟檢討我們希望可以落實、充實我們的教學跟實驗的一些相關的一些設施好,458案3減500萬元科目字條,凍結500萬元書面報告進行通訊的通知459案459案為黃委員指導,以獲委員同意改列組決議459案改列組決議,460案 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10410.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10422.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
461案 馬文君委員指導 已獲委員同意預算照列461案 已獲委員同意預算照列462案 已獲馬文君委員同意預算照列463案 已獲提案委員 同意改列組決議464案 已獲提案委員 同意改列組決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10439.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10448.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
464 案為羅貝林委員的提案 以附委員辦公室說明請委員改列主決議464 案同意改列主決議465 案465 案為徐曉新委員提案465 案不予處理 區議員不在 不予處理 466 案 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10460.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10487.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
466案及467案為黃人委員的提案本部已付委員辦公室說明同意改列組決議466案同意改列組決議467案同意改列組決議468案468案為馬洪君委員指導以後同意改列組決議468案請說明好這個部分我們同意改列組決議不過這個部分我們請國防部要訂定一個標準因為什麼哪一些是可以公佈的比如像之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10489.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10509.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
還有會管主委他在個人臉書公佈海面態勢圖的部分還循序對外說明這是依政府資訊公開法可是他講的跟國防部公佈的內容是不一樣的所以他可以知道可是他可以這樣公佈嗎尤其在臉書公佈所以如果說有些標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10510.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10524.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
不太一樣然後動不動對某些對象大概就是洩密或者不應該公開可是有些人公開以後我們還去幫他打圓場我覺得這樣的標準會讓大家無所適從我們還是希望如果真的要讓全民知道的就把他公開講清楚然後國防部應該要訂定一個標準這是我們修正為主決議的一個目的謝謝468一同意改變主決議469案 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10539.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10544.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
469 為羅美玲委員提案 以附委員辦公室溝通說明 委員同意改列組決469 同意改列組決 473 為馬雲居委員提案 以附委員辦公室說明 同意預算招列 請委員指導473 同意預算招列 471 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10555.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10577.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
471案已向委員說明建議同意修訂提出書面報告後10個動之動決金額多少兩百萬元好471案主席不好意思這個部分說明一下因為我們國防部從112年就開始派了尚中紹 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10578.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10588.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
少校各议员在美国执行有关动员整备的相关业务到目前大概也三年多了这个部分一年大概就要720万的业务费 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10591.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10598.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
所以其實我們在現在我們看到權動署剛剛一年大概編了1771萬去美國要四次最高一次就花了800多萬其中最高的一次要花800多萬我們不知道你原來其實已經有派駐常駐的上中少校各一位了而且也執行三年多那他們在那裡是什麼樣的角色你還需要有這麼多的人去那裡做這樣的交流 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10621.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10625.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
一次花800多萬的這個旅費非常高所以這個部分我們凍結200萬必須要清楚的說明我們希望這些有關接的這些校級的軍官不要只是去當接待 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10637.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10645.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
好471案動解200萬書面報告已經同意厚實的動之472案472案已向委員送明報告過那同意凍結500萬提出書面報告厚實的動之472案凍結500萬經書面報告同意厚實的動473案473案也同意3減300萬根部自行調整473案同意3減300萬根部自行調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10664.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10676.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
474案跟475案為馬委員跟王委員合併的併案那我們也到委員辦公室說明過同意刪減100萬並動100萬科目事情調整並提出說明報告的適合動之474請公安部說就全案建議的三動數跟115年度建議的三動數分別說明好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10690.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10694.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
四七四跟四七五並案三檢100萬 動100萬對 115年度動115年度的 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10713.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10718.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
好 那就474案並475案474提案說明好 請說明474案我們是統一刪減跟凍結的數字那不過這個部分我們看到我們現在的一個台美交流的部分我們在 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10739.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10754.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
5年的時間大概編了2489萬這個以前其實也都執行過可是現在人數越來越多然後經費也越來越高我們一次會一次會然後大概有4次兵推吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10754.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10761.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
可是我們看到平均一個人每天每人每天三萬多五天就高達15萬就是美方來的人員15萬已經比一個少將中將一個月的薪水還要高所以我們到底是邀請什麼樣的對象然後需要的人數要這麼多我覺得這對我們整體來說可能也是那不然你就請少將或中將去指導就好了你邀請這麼多的美國人那他們的計價 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10783.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10797.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
又很高我就是覺得這些是有不合理的地方這也必須要清楚的說明474並475以474為主案那15年度檢列100萬元科目字條凍結100萬元書面報告金銅銀或石頭凍資476案請說明476案也向委員說明過3.9百萬科目字條整476案3.9百萬科目字條整477案 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10811.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10823.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
477 馬文君委員指導 以後委員同意改為凍結五百萬元提出書面報告並經同意後動之477 同意凍結五百萬元經書面報告同意後動之請說明這個部分這個陳進士訓練型無人機採購案這個部分大概是 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10835.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10849.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
編列的金額有一個是一千四百多萬一個是兩千萬那這些在預算書裡面也沒有寫工作計畫的項目然後我們規定五百萬以上都要揭露可是這些錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10850.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10875.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
我們發現說他放在國防部裡面只寫部隊訓練的教案跟訓練如果他是採購是實體的採購照理說他就必須要揭露了已經超過五百萬因為你一個是一千四百多萬一個是兩千萬可是你放在部隊訓練的教案跟訓練用這樣的名義去放這個預算所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10876.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10895.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
如果這個部分真的是用在這裡那今年這就是新增案那接下來其實你已經有授權給陸軍那你也買了很多的無人機那這個部分也要交代清楚不能不適當的其實他都不應該運用同意凍結五百萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10900.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10917.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
477案 凍結500萬元均同意後 申訴報告同意後 實得凍資478案第478案 為黃仁委員指導本案已向委員說明 同意改為主決議 請委員指導478案同意改為主決議 479案請國務部就全案建議的三動數 跟115年度建議的三動數分別說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10925.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
10931.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
479萬為滿委員指導本案已向委員說明同意改3減1000萬科目字條凍結100萬並向委員會提出書面報告使得動之請委員指導謝謝主席這個要提案說明謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
10945.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
10949.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
就這個部分是資深觀摩員年度評估以及雙方的交流的部分這個全案這算是軍購案全案有8243萬這個金額非常高因為原來我們從100我們用最近幾年來看112年113年114年115年其實每年都有編原來一年只要41萬美金 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
10972.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
10974.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
可是115年今年暴增成500萬美金大概是要1億5000萬以上這是非常高的金額什麼樣的資深觀摩員來台灣做評估或雙方交流必須從41萬是多少41萬是1500萬嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
10992.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11006.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
原來大概一年只要一千五百萬今年報成一億五千多萬我們不知道到底有什麼樣重要的人那因為有提到說像美軍上將現役的美軍上將是可以來的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11007.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11016.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
那我們人數為什麼要增加那麼多如果說我們每年都編照理說他們來做一些相關的評估或建議的時候不是應該我們越來越進步越來越好嗎他每年都會提供建議那為什麼會突然暴增這麼多這個部分應該要有清楚的說明這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11028.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11044.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
整平司也會有這個部分啦可是我們就是特別提到這裡這個軍事室兩年請人家評估也要八千多萬等一下一億多的這個是整平司的部分那我們也要八千多萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11046.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11058.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
這金額嚇死人一億多跟這個八千多加起來兩億多光是美國的這些人員我們不曉得對象有什麼樣的那個可是從一千多萬暴增成兩億多這個非常嚇人要清楚的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11064.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11070.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
好 那我們做宣告479案115至116年度全案檢列1000萬元科目字條115年度凍結100萬元經書面報告同意後使得凍資480案請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11079.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11090.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
委員好,482案及481案違反安軍委員關心參謀本部後期綜合勤務預算編列情形,以向委員半個字說明,建請同意480案預算照列,481案凍結1000萬,並向委員會結束書面報告後,使得動之。482案請說明。 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11104.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11119.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
482 為馬文君委員關心參謀本部設施修繕維護與管理預算編列情形 已向委員辦公室說明 建請同意凍結五百萬元並向委員會提出書面報告後 使得動之 恭請委員指導凍結五百萬元 提出書面報告並同意後 使得動之第482案第483案 請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11123.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11133.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
第483案為馬文君委員提案那以副委員辦公室說明或同意凍結的額度從30%調整到10%並於三個月內提出書面報告經同意後時的凍值請委員知道第483案凍結10%是然後書面報告經同意後時的凍值是 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11151.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11163.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
好第484案484案為黃仁委員提案那已附委員辦公室說明本案並馬文君委員的第488案合併凍結100萬請委員知道484案並488案凍結100萬元經書面報告後時的凍結是 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11174.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11198.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
主提案為484案的黃榮委員是485485是485還沒還沒然後第485案請說明485案為馬文君委員提案那已向委員辦公室說明那目前是凍結兩千萬並專案報告懇請委員指導485案請光復就全案建議的三動數跟115年入監的三動數分別說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11204.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11225.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
485是目前這個是以軍售案的方式來為美方來協助我們做這個網路站的一個能量我現在要講說485案你是動100全案還是怎樣115年度是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11230.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11244.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
今年年度是編的不是 簡列多少 凍結多少凍2000萬就只有115年的 485萬115年度凍結2000萬經書面報告同意後 使得凍之主席 不好意思 我要提案說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11255.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11257.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
就這個部分我們雖然是軍購案可是我們也發現這個還是有一些問題第一它發價所以還沒有來第二個這是在這個部分因為美方找的其實都是文職人員可是我們比較大的問題是我們也還沒有買這個總共四億七千將近四億八千萬就是五年的時間要花掉四億八千萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11285.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11285.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
這個部分我們要訓練一些相關的網路獵捕獵捕的人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11293.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11296.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
可是我們發現這個人其實很難找如果第一你找不到足額的人怎麼辦因為美方找的跟我們現在的不一樣我們找的是大概是我們軍職人員那軍人他是可以升遷的他是可以退伍的那你留不住人你受訓以後因為他用這麼高額然後也受訓這些訓練這些專業的人才可是你留不住的時候怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11320.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11344.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
因為我們發現到目前為止其實你找到的人數原來還是不足的所以就這個部分應該要清楚的說明而不是為了做而做那美方有的建議怎麼樣去我們這些目前碰到的一些狀況或者我們人員不足的部分應該要怎麼可以去做一些精進跟修正這個也可能要一併的說明清楚謝謝我們派一號辦理好486案 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11351.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11367.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
抱歉485案已經宣告完了好486案請說明第486案為馬文君委員提案以副委員辦公室說明請同意預算照列486案同意預算照列487案 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11368.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11379.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
是吧87案為馬文君委員提案那以附委員辦公室說明3減200萬元科目執行調整請委員知道請說明謝謝主席這個部分因為他辦公室自動化系統的維護這個你東西壞了修東西其實還要另外付錢可是你現在又編了 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11394.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11397.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
要請人請兩個人要260萬等於一年的年薪130萬然後就是做這些系統維護可是我們一般又有委外的維護維護費然後送休還要錢我覺得這個可能要稍微精進一下這可能還要浪費一些人力487案3減200萬元科目字條488案 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11419.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11426.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
488案 三減六百萬元 凍結一百萬並提出書面報告後動之 請委員知道488488已經併入484了484併488484併488 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11448.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11472.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
剛剛484是黃人委員的提案那也跟黃人委員報告過那就是併在488案來處理減600動100是這個部分我們說明一下好不好488案這個部分因為在整體的預算就是在比114年今年比114年增加了1450幾萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11474.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11497.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
這個增加的幅度高達百分之一百零二非常高那資通電軍其實已經買了很多的軟體而且現在也都在用了而且通知室是幕僚單位我們也不需要自己做所以就這些部分該減該省下來的預算我們還是建議要經省所以這個部分同意減列六百動一百 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11498.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11524.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
剛才已經488案已經併入484案了所以就是以484案的為主案然後凍結100萬書面報告後 經同意後實得凍結我們重新一次好了 再重新宣告減劣是多少減劣600萬以488案為主案 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11529.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11536.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
488案併入484案以黃仁委員為主案那是減列600萬元那凍結 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11556.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11570.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
1百萬元書面報告後取得動之那檢列的部分科目書面報告後取得動之檢列的部分科目字條489案489案金鄉委員辦公室說明3減1百萬動減1百萬元並提出書面報告後同意動之 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11578.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11584.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
489案 三檢100萬元 根部自行調整 凍結100萬元書面報告 經同意後 實得凍資490案490案 以附委員辦公室說明 或同意改納主決議辦理490案 同意改納主決議 491案491案 為徐巧興委員不在 不予處理 492案492案 以向委員說明 建立3.40萬 凍結500萬 書面報告後 實得凍資 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11609.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11617.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
492案 3.40萬元科目字條 凍結500萬元書面報導後 經同意時的動資493案493案為馬文君委員關心參謀本部載人工物車的籌補預算編列已向委員辦公室說明 建請同意凍結500萬並向委員提出 |