| IVOD_ID |
17469 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17469 |
| 日期 |
2026-05-27 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
聯席會議-11-5-26,20-1 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境、財政委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[1] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[1] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境、財政委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2026-05-27T08:33:39+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-05-27T11:24:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
02:50:21 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/bfaf9b39ac01a685d0d05b47c73760f486a976789303406b601341028818003d1d01e6519b62c09e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-05-27T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境、財政委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、繼續審查國民黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「臺灣未來帳戶特別條例草案」案。
二、審查委員郭國文等18人擬具「臺灣兒童及少年投資儲蓄帳戶條例草案」。
【逐條討論，不詢答】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:33:39 - 11:24:00 |
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SPEAKER_01 |
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SPEAKER_02 |
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10242.91971875 |
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10245.53534375 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
404.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
412.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1608.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1632.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
好 現在開會 請組密報告出席人數報告臨席會出席委員15人 已組法定人數本會議成為繼續審查國民黨團 臺灣民眾黨團凝聚臺灣未來帳戶特別條例草案審查委員郭國文等18人凝聚臺灣兒童及少年投資儲蓄帳戶條例草案接著介紹在場委員我們介紹林業勤召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1634.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1652.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
王振旭委員 蘇清泉委員 陳金輝委員 邱振鈞委員 廖偉祥委員 屠群集委員 林德福委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1662.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1679.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
介紹列席官員 衛生福利部部長施崇良社交署署長周道軍社工司副市長楊雅蘭法規會參事陳信成國發會專委專進文人力發展處科員林益潔行政總處預算預算處專委陳淑萍 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1690.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1716.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
財政部政務次長陳永勝負稅署署長宋秀玲國庫署副署長馬曉慧金融金融多管理委員會副局長黃仲豪勞工保險局副局長李靖韻勞動基金運用局副局長劉麗如 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1720.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1733.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
學權教育署副署長戴淑芬法務部參事汪南鈞如果委員要持續發言請到這裡登記請持續發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1750.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1753.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
我們一層先進行程序發言,請聯繫前召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1763.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1792.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
主席各位委員我今天要針對程旭先表達立場因為這個議題不能被簡化成誰比較願意給孩子錢真正要問的是哪一套制度比較公平比較穩比較能執行也能夠讓家庭受惠那因為現在現階段那不以修法或是另立特別的條例來做政策上路而且現在正在今天要討論要公佈加上目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1793.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1820.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
家長對於原來的成長津貼本來就比較期許也希望能夠快速的能夠讓他們可以運用那既然現在已經是參考既有的育兒津貼跟幼兒的就學補助等幾副的行政經驗要用點跟年度預算機制來先行推動這不是規避國會的一個監督是因為預算能來要送進立法院來審查這樣子的話讓政策事實上是 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1821.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1837.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
會卡在我們的程序實體帳戶的開戶我們的資訊系統的建置甚至呢我們的專責單位的設置以及財源爭議在裡面我個人是非常支持國家投資0到18歲的兒少但制度不能只看 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1837.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1860.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
名稱好不好聽那我們的帳戶的制度如果設計成有錢家庭存越多我們的扣稅越多收益不足還要由國庫來保底的話那公共資源就可能變成高所得家庭的理財的一個工具目前我們看今天要討論的版本會讓家長把自由款項存進帳戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1861.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1886.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
而主張所得稅要列舉扣除可是問題是真正經濟弱勢的家庭我們的日常生活支出收入已經佔比非常的高我們看到現行的我們的兒少未來教育及發展帳戶那只有四成事實上只有六成的存戶這六成當中有七成有確實去做存款可是有的中間還會因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1888.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1905.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
沒辦法有錢卡住所以根本就是可能沒有餘裕的自存那有些家庭也沒有所得稅可以扣結果最後受益比較大的是誰反而是有能力自存所得稅率也比較高的家庭所以呢會造成呢貧者越貧 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1906.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1934.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
負責月付事實上貧富差距會拉大那更嚴重的是我們目前看到今天要討論版本還設計說自存款每年每帳戶最高10萬而且沒有排付那又有最低的一個收益保證不足部分由國庫來撥補這代表什麼有錢家庭真的可以存滿可以扣稅可以累積資產那弱勢家庭可能沒有錢存沒有稅扣最後還要看著國庫替有錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1935.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
1964.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
資產的家庭來保底這不是縮小貧富差距這事實上是把家庭原本有的貧富差距呢帶到我們的兒少政策裡面讓貧富差距越來越大所以我認為這一點必須要講清楚兒少政策的目的不是讓本來有資產的家庭多一個被國家保證收益的帳戶更不是讓孩子從一出生開始就因為家庭自存能力的不同被制度放大差距 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
1965.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
1991.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那公共資源應該優先支持我們的孩子跟家庭尤其是弱勢而不是讓高所得的家庭多一個理財加速器讓弱勢家庭變成盤光者因此我要特別強調成長津貼現在端出來的0到18歲成長津貼是我們的事實上是給付行政不是限制人民的權利給付行政本來就是比較寬裕的行政 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
1992.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2004.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
形成空間政府可以依財政狀況政策需求跟實際執行的經驗先用要點來辦理那讓家庭可以先領得到制度先跑的動機 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2004.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2024.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
這比一開始就把制度寫進到特別條例裡面反而更有彈性也能夠因應後續的狀況來做調整所以我覺得給父行政的優勢就不是要求家庭先要有自存的一個能力政府直接給父讓孩子不必因為出生比較有寬裕的家庭才能得到支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2025.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2040.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
的資格這事實上是才是比較接近鵝哨政策應有的公平性我覺得鵝哨政策要做就要做得長久越是要長期承諾越要守住我們的財政紀律用特別條例特別預算硬推看起來很快可是但未來財源怎麼來 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2042.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2063.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
會不會有排擠到長照跟健保跟托育社會救助跟災害應變這些都不是小問題行政院如果用年度預算來編列的話保留國會的審查也保留政府面對到不同需求的一個調度空間這才是比較有責任的一個負責任的制度的設計所以另外 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2064.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2091.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
六歲以上的兒少也不是政府少照顧而是政策分成兩階段一段事實上是家庭現在可以使用的一個成長津貼一段事實上是孩子在18歲後要面對到升學就業創業時的一個起步的資金這叫做現在支持未來起步不是把人民既有的權利扣住所以少子化也不是孩子18歲以後有沒有一筆賬戶就能解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2091.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2112.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
家長現在面對的事實上是托育費教育費接送照顧跟請假的一個困難職場如果不彈性居住有壓力的話那我覺得這些問題如果不解決不處理的話家庭不會因為18年後有一筆賬戶就突然感生感癢所以我支持現在目前既然行政院已經要有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2114.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2131.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
0到18歲的省長今天是不是應該以那個為主而不是今天又要硬要推另外一個帳戶那這樣子的話我們看到今天這樣版本並沒有解決問題以上謝謝好謝謝林玉琴召會的發言接下來請王玉敏委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2144.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2150.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
主席 各位委員 各位美麗朋友 大家早我想今天很謝謝我們盧仙一召委就是排了稍微來賬戶的這樣的一個逐條審查大家都知道這個法案從去年12月 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2159.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2162.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
由國民黨跟民眾黨兩黨的黨主席已經召開記者會對外宣布這樣的一個法案那在委員會裡面我們也經歷過詢答而且也召開過公聽會今天就是應該進入逐條審議的程序那如果個別委員對於個別的條文有些什麼意見通通都可以在逐條審查的時候把意見提出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2185.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2188.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
第二個我要講這個兒少未來賬戶事實上已經討論很久那剛剛有委員提到說這個0到18歲的成長津貼這個是賴總統在這個520當天他才臨時拋出來的所以哪一個法案提出來比較早當然是兒少未來賬戶更何況他的版本裡面也提到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2210.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2218.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
因為他現在他的版本還不確定待會可以就交部長他是說六歲以下發津貼六歲以上有一半要提撥出來也一樣是這個兒少未來賬戶的概念所以我覺得這個賴總統應該是跟進這個國民黨跟民眾黨的版本我想他應該也是思考過也覺得這個兒少未來賬戶是可以推更何況民進黨還有郭國文委員的版本今天他不在現場 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2239.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2254.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那這個民進黨裡面其實之前也有委員是支持這樣的一個兒少未來帳戶的概念最後我要講的是我們現在面臨整體少子化的議題政府要堆出來的方案不只一個津貼方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2255.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2258.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
兒少未來賬戶讓我們的兒少未來有信心國家跟家長幫他存一筆錢他將來在18歲之後有一筆可自由運用的基金這個也是讓我們的兒少對於未來的生活其實是更有信心那這個也象徵著我們國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2272.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2274.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
這個照顧我們的下一代我們不是只有口號我們是有行動的更何況如果我們看到先進的國家美國跟新加坡這個都是我們希望可以去跟上他們的腳步的他們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2287.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2293.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
下一代可以擁有這樣的未來賬戶我覺得這個最近賴政府都在說我們經濟有多好家多好當我們經濟很好的時候當然照顧下一代就是我們的優先也是我們的重中之重因為台灣如果還要繼續有未來我們把每一個孩子照顧好然後把我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2309.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2330.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
的政府財政有餘裕多照顧好我們的下一代我想這個是未來應該要努力以赴的一個方向所以我希望今天的審查等一下程旭大家各委員發言完畢之後請召委我們就進入到主條大家好好的來討論謝謝好謝謝王玉明委員的發言接下來請陳金輝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2346.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2376.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
主席 各位委員還有在座各位官員大家早安 大家好我想在這邊幫大家講一個今年非常驚心動魄的數據我們今年二月的出生人口是中華民國建國以來的最新低大概是六千人跟去年的同期也就是去年的二月比起來去年是一萬四千人那我認為現在這個少子化的程度已經是國安等級最危險的程度了 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2376.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2383.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
所以今天有機會利用各種政策的討論可以協助解決少子化的問題我認為都應該要拿出來討論並且讓大家一條一條的討論那我們在野黨是在去年大概12月25號我記得是聖誕節的時候藍白兩黨共同宣布說要做台灣未來賬戶而做這個台灣未來賬戶的過程也是經過兩邊的主席兩邊的智庫 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2404.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2419.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
無數次的對接包括我本人也都有參與然後去參考非常多先進國家的做法所以它是把一個社會救助的概念變成一個人口永續戰略的概念我們覺得很震驚的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2420.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2435.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
距離我們講這個台灣未來賬戶到今天到賴總統5月29日突然拋出兒童未來賬戶而且他居然只有六個字改兩個字我們叫台灣未來賬戶他把它改成兒童未來賬戶中間隔了146天啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2440.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2460.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
這146天呢民進黨的委員跟官員是怎麼攻擊在野黨的我在這邊一一念給大家聽但是我希望今天的這個討論還是可以在平和的狀況之下因為大家已經被賴總統的髮夾彎甩出去非常多次了之前不管是何能啊不管是普發一萬啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2460.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2473.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
大家都幫他論述的不得了結果他熊熊某一天就拋出說他也支持河門他也要普發一萬那現在他又要每個月發五千而且還發到18歲並且呢他還把台灣未來帳戶修改兩個字變成他的兒童未來帳戶那這146天在野黨是怎麼被攻擊的呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2482.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2485.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
民進黨吳少偉委員說畫大餅加劇財政惡化非國家之福我想知道這個核電一開一關大概花了幾千億之後我們要把它算清楚到底是國家之福還是國家之難現在花在小孩的身上還會嫌少嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2500.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2509.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
張雅玲委員說制度裁員不明的嘴炮搶錢立法王世堅批評有點荒謬啊林昭偉說會排擠剛剛他都講得很清楚拉大貧富差距等一下我會一點一點的論述之前這個帳戶是哪裡失敗然後他到底有沒有解決貧富差距之前這個帳戶的開戶率非常低 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2522.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2530.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
而且家長續存的這個終止率非常的高所以我也不曉得之前這個賬戶哪裡有解決到貧富差距了那我們的衛福部當時還發了新聞稿批評台灣未來賬戶他說兒童是台灣國家未來的主人翁政府一定盡全力的照顧但是普惠式的台灣未來賬戶恐會造成財務資源排擠 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2547.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2561.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
次長面對質詢的時候也說立法不能只談理想不談代價未來政府利益良善但是策略跟方法大有問題未來可能債留子孫 複製階級不平等也無法真正解決少子女化 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2562.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2582.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
今天我想問一下在座的官員委員我們是要解決台灣人口永續人口戰略的問題你們之前的批評已經在520賴總統一一打臉了他不但要做而且他還要做得更大他傻逼傻得更大如果依據你們的說法的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2587.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2607.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
這個我是希望說今天雖然說大家還要等行政院的版本等等的可是上一次我們已經在上一個會期就是有非常多民黨委員發言說爭取一定要有一個公聽會的機會我們也詢答了我們也公聽會了然後藍白也端出版本還有很多委員其實也寫出自己的版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2608.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2614.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
那我是希望大家不要再雙標下去了因為這146天什麼都不動作現在才叫大家要在這裡繼續等請問民進黨是罵政策還是罵提出政策的人同樣是兒童未來賬戶同樣的永續的概念藍白題就是錢坑撒幣債留子孫賴清德題就是照顧下一代投資未來我覺得我們要用 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2634.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2652.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
最多的手段不管是從哪一個委員會只要是有助於少子化的政策我們都需要討論那我們在未還委員會當然就是提出未還相關的法案所以我很感謝昭偉今天的排案我也很希望昭偉等一下可以讓我們有機會一條一條論述謝謝 非常謝謝大家共同關心這個議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2657.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2683.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
謝謝陳清輝委員的發言提案委員說明提案要之前先做以下說明本聯席會在上會期一五年一月十二號聯席會議依舊國民黨黨團臺灣民眾黨黨團聯聚臺灣未來帳戶特別條例草案說明及詢答完畢本日就先增資委員郭國文等十八人提案以上事提案一併審查本日緊就提案進行提案說明不另作詢答 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2685.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2697.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
針對郭台銘說要跟行政委員會做個採審說我們先不等什麼意思那個行政委員會有要求說要行政委員會跟行政委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2704.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2721.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
好 針對剛才程序發言的時候 有委員說要等行政院版本嗎 可是就我們先進入主條 現在提案要職 時間兩分鐘 請邱惠璐委員說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2732.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2732.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
好 那就不用 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2736.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2758.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
接下來請衛生福利部時事部長併案說明都說明了嗎 也不用了嗎好先做以下宣告循例本日不處理臨時提案有關本次會議與各項說明這要列入進入刊登公報現在請醫生人員宣讀提案條文內容會有修正動議請一併宣讀現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2766.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2793.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
委員郭國文等18人提案法案名稱臺灣兒童及少年投資儲蓄賬戶條例第一章張明總則第一條為因應少子女化趨勢協助家庭減輕育兒負擔促進兒童及少年之長期資產累積提升其成年後之經濟自立能力並透過長期穩健之資本市場投資方式建立全民共同支持下一代發展之制度特制定本法 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2798.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2813.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
第三條本條例所稱主管機關為在中央為衛生福利部在直轄市為直轄市政府在縣市為縣市政府主管機關與目的事業主管機關應就本條例規定事項對涉及相關機關之業務應全力配合之 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2814.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2840.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
前項主管機關及各目的事業主管機關權責劃分如下一章主管機關兒少投資帳戶之政策法規與法案之規劃推動執行解釋及監督其他統籌之業務等相關事宜二金融主管機關兒少投資帳戶之相關管理措施之規劃推動執行解釋及監督三財政主管機關兒少投資帳戶之補足稅捐減免等相關措施之規劃推動執行及監督 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2842.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2868.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
第二条本条例用词定义如下一台湾儿童及少年投资储蓄账户以下简称儿少投资账户指一本条例规定以儿童或少年之名义开立供其满18岁前自行存款与政府薄付相对提拨款之个人投资账户结金额则指个人账户内的总额二开户人只完成开立儿少投资账户之儿童或少年三次存款指以 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2869.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2898.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
开户人名义自行存入其儿少投资账户之款项。四、政府相对提拨款值。政府依儿少投资账户开户人自存款金额相对拨付存入之款项。五、投资收益。指与其儿少投资账户内资金运用所配获之收益。第四条中央及各相关目的事业主管机关掌理下列事项。依儿少投资账户之政策法规与相关措施之规划定定宣导及国际交流。 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2899.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2916.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
二、儿少投资账户之开办存款与提令机制之规划协调及监督三、对直辖市县市主管机关执行儿少投资账户相关工作之监督协调及奖励四、其他全国性儿少投资账户之相关事项 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2917.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2934.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
第五条直辖市县市主管机关长礼下列事项一儿少投资账户之推动执行及宣导二对儿少投资账户开户人及其家庭提供相关协助服务之规划及执行三其他地方性儿少投资账户之相关事项第六条 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2936.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2960.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
本条例适用对象为自本条例公布日施行后出生未满18岁之中华民国国民且在中华民国境内有住所并年度居住中华民国境内满183天者第七条主管机关为开立与管理而扫投资账户相关工作所需经费以及政府相对提拨款由中央政府编列预算支应其余由各级政府编列预算支应 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
2962.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
2984.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
第八条中央主管机关应定期邀集学者专家及相关机关代表协调咨询及推动儿少投资账户相关事项前项学者专家及机关代表任意性别不得少于三分之一第九条中央主管机关应就儿少投资账户之参与情形进行研究并定期公布结果第二张张明张户开立及管理第十条 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
2985.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
2998.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
兒少投資帳戶之開立收支保管與管理等業務轉由中央主管機關委託金融主管機關辦理之本條例之自存款或政府相對提撥款與投資收益應存於兒少投資帳戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3001.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3016.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
第十一条直辖市县市主管机关知习辖内涉及之儿童及少年符合第六条所定条件者因自知习之日起一个月内主动通知其法定代理人或最近亲属任意人申请开立儿少教育发展账户 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3017.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3038.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
请向申请因填据申请书并则立每月自存款金额自存款存入实现及是否委托政府代为操作之声明向该管制小市县市主管机关提出经审查核准后由各该主管机关列册报中央主管机关转请金融主管机关依第十条第一项规定开立而上投资账户 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3039.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3058.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
莊主管机关得适制度推动情形及家庭负担能力公告可责定之每月自存款及年度自存款上限金额开户人之法定代理人或最近亲属任意人得依家庭经济状况向指向市县市主管机关申请变更原则定之每月自存款金额 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3060.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3080.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
金额准后由各该主管机关列册保障主管机关通知金融主管机关办理变更开户人自儿少投资账户开立后第二年起其法定代理人或最近亲属任意人得申请变更前项每月自存款金的每一年度以变更一次为限第十二条开户人其法定代理人或最近亲属 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3081.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3098.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
因依照主管機關核准之每月依責定之自存額款金而存入兒少投資帳戶至開戶人滿12歲止但有特殊前行者得於當年度終了前補刑存入開戶人年滿12歲後開戶人其法定 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3099.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3117.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
代理人或最近親屬人得持續存入資存款其存入金額不受簽條則令金額之限制開戶人於年滿18歲前不得提領其兒少投資帳戶內之款項但有第17條第18條或第20條所定情形之意則不在此限第13條中央主管機關應與個別兒少帳戶投資 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3122.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3134 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
帳戶實際存入之自存款金額按月核算並撥入同額之政府相對提撥款前鄉政府相對提撥款每一開戶人每月以新台幣1200元為上限積累計總額以新台幣144,000元為限 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3136.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3159.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
符合下列各款情形之一之開戶人莊主管機關得以每月新台幣一千二百元補助其自存款十年該補助款不納入前項政府相對提撥款制計算依據社會救助法所定之低收戶或中低收入戶資格者二依據兒童及少年福利與權利保障法相關規定安置二年以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3160.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3189.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
由法院指定直銷市縣市主管機關兒童及少年福利機構負責任為監護人者三其他經中央主管機關公告指定者第十六條金融主管機關因定期編制兒少投資帳戶之自存款政府相對提撥款投資收益及其他相關資訊提供中央主管機關轉資開戶人之息第十五條兒少投資帳戶內之投資收益其年化報酬率不得低於當年銀行二年期定期存款平均利率 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3191.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3211.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
加计当年度消费者物价指数年增率之和计数前项收益如有不足由国库予以补足其补足金额已不超过该账户累积自存款总额之一定比例为限其补足方式计算基准及相关事项之准则由中央主管机关会商财政主管机关定之 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3212.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3226.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
第十四条,儿少投资账户的投资商品应由金融主管机关设置儿少投资账户基金委员会以下简称委员会审议核准。前项委员会应由政府机关代表、专家学者及相关机关代表组成及设置。 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3227.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3246.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
组成、任期及运作等事项是准则由金融主管机关定之。前二项核准制投资商品应符合下列条件,其审查准则由金融主管机关定之。一,符合儿童及少年生命周期特性之证券投资信托基金或指数股票型证券投资信托基金。 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3247.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3272.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
2.基金不得收取申购或赎回手续费且基金经理费率不得高于年率1%3.不得包含杠杆型、反向型或其他高风险或衍生性金融商品委会应定其检讨以核准投资商品之适合性必要时得要求调整或停止试用开户人之法定代理人或最近亲属任意人责定由政府代为操作而扫投资账户者 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3272.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3293.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
因减负同意代钞之书面声明,向直辖市县市主管机关申请经核准后,其账户内之款项由政府依规定代为投资运用。请向政府代钞之投资原则、资产配置、风险控管、资讯揭露及其他相关事项之准则由金融主管机关定之。第三章,张明账户请领及结清。 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3295.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3317.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
第十七条,直辖市县市主管机关应与开户人满18岁前一个月通知其办理儿少投资账户款项之请领并结清账户。开户人依前项规定办理请领及结清账户时,其投资收益部分应依所得税法规定缴纳综合所得税。单开户人将儿少投资账户内这款项依规定转入台湾投资。 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3318.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3334.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
储蓄账户则不在此限期转入之资格程序及相关事项之准则由金融主管机关定之开户人于年满12岁至未满18岁期间得申请勤领期而上投资账户内款项且以就学就医或才艺训练等必要支出为限 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3335.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3354.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
其提領以每年一次為限提領總額度不得超過賬戶內款項10%傾向提領因減負用途相關證明文件經直轄市縣市主管機關審查符合規定者轉請經營主管機關辦理為減負證明文件或經審查不符規定者不得於開戶人年滿18歲前提領 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3356.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3386.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
开户人于年满18岁之日起10年内因死亡,且为依第一项规定办理勤领及结清账户者,得由原位其开户之法定代理人或最近亲属任意人申请提领该账户之自存款及其资习并结清账户,经直辖市县市主管机关审查核准后,得转请金融主管机关办理。开户人于年满18岁之日起10年内前项所定权利人为依规定申请勤领并结清账户者, |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3387.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3415.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
其儿少投资账户内所余款项归属国库第18条未满18岁至开户人因死亡罹患严重疾病或为严重身心障碍时其法定代理人或最近亲属任意人得向直辖市县市主管机关申请提令儿少投资账户内之款项经各该主管机关审查核准后转请金融主管机关办理提令并截清账户前项所称严重疾病及严重身心障碍之规范为由中央主管机关公告之 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3416.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3436.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
第十九条开户人不在符合第六条所定适用资格且未依本法规定于期限内办理而上投资账户之勤领及结清者其账户内属于款项归属国库之下是县市主管机关于全项期限借满前应以书面或其他适当方式通知开户人或其法定代理人 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3437.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3464.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
第二十条开户人向指向市县市主管机关申请退出而烧投资账户该管主管机关因自其申请日期一年内派员辅导辅导后开户人仍决定退出者得请领该账户内之自存款及其投资所得并结清账户该账户之政府相对提拨及其投资所得归属国库第二十一条开户人办理账户结清后不得重新申请开立而烧投资账户 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3465.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3489.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
第四章張明負責第二十二條開戶之兒少投資帳戶內這款項均不記錄其他法規所定之家庭總收入或家庭財產且不得作為抵銷扣押供單保或強制執行之標的第二十三條這項是縣市主管機關的結合民間資源運用社會工作人員對符合第十三條第三項且連續三至六個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3490.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3505.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
未存款之开户人、法定代理人或最近亲属进行辅导及提供相关协助。第24条主管机关得依前条所述之对象进行规划与办理财务管理生涯规划及轻职教育之教育训练。 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3507.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3522.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
请向相关教育训练与辅导主管机关的结合主管机关或专业团体提供专业服务第26条主管机关为执行本条例相关工作所需之个人资料的恰请相关机关够法人团体或个人提供之 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3523.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3551.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
受请求者无正当理由不得拒绝第25条主管机关得接受各界捐款用于协助符合第13条第三项对象之儿少投资账户以及前两条规定事项第27条本条例实行前已参与中央主管机关依相关规定办理之儿少教育发展账户方案者得申请将该账户内所余款项转入依本条例规定开立之儿少投资账户转入程序及其他相关事项之准则 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3552.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3578.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
有中主管机关定之第18条本条例自公布日实行宣布完毕现在进行讨论事项台湾未来账户特别条例草案等两案之主条审查每条条文先请行政单位说明现在进行本案主条讨论现在讨论法案名称先请卫部说明 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3584.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3604.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
好 主席各位委員 那麼有關於這個法案名稱為台灣未來戰務特別條例那因為它用特別條例就會回歸到我們預算法83條的規定那麼屬於用特別條例 特別預算那麼應該要符合國家緊急狀態或面臨戰爭經濟狀態變故等等而且這個長達13年 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3610.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3624.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
的這個特別條例所以這個名稱跟設計上的恐怕在整個立法體力上就有一個問題存在所以以上說明謝謝部長請主席總書發言說明接下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3637.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3665.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
委員各位委員代表大家好那預算法83條的一個特別預算它其實在法的一個意義上它就是會有一定的一個期間那津貼福利津貼的部分它是一個延續性常態性的東西所以它基本上是不適合用特別預算來處理的 以上好 請各位委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3673.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3688.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
謝謝主席也謝謝剛剛主管機關相對的說明那我們先來看一下這個中國國民黨立法院黨團跟民眾黨立法院黨團所提出來提案的法案名稱 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3689.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3710.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
他的法案名稱叫台灣未來帳戶特別條例那依照剛剛的說明我們了解這個特別條例裡面他就會添會編列特別預算那根據目前預算法第83條的規定行政院因國防緊急設施或戰爭國家經濟 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3713.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3726.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
重大變故重大災害或不定期或數年一次是重大震勢的時候得提出特別預算所以從這個法律架構上如果用特別條例來處理的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3728.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3753.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
似乎目前這些內容並不符合所散開這喜相的這些內容所以從這個特別條例的法律設計來看的話呢好像不太適合來當作這些主要內容的這個要處理的方式那如果是郭文貴以前18年提案的這個法案名稱的話呢他叫做台灣兒童及少年 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3754.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3778.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
投資儲蓄賬戶條例那就沒有特別條例這樣的這些法案名稱所以用特別條例來處理的話可能要非常非常的小心那另外公聽會的時候 召回召回中聽會的時候其實有淡江大學的蔡教授他也特別提出說兒少補助政策若採巨額一次性或特別預算的方式來強行撥補的話呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3781.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3801.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
將會在國家有限的稅出預算當中產生嚴重的擠壓效益所以長期穩健的少資歷化的對策必須建立在常態預算的編列跟國家整體財政收入的永續精神之上不宜跳脫預算法與公路預算的正常體制以免對現行 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3803.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3831.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
是有年的基礎托育跟教育補助造成不可逆的實質傷害所以如果說從這個法案名稱來看的話目前我們看到這個國中兩黨所提出的這個法案名稱稱為台灣未來帳戶特別條例似乎不是很符合現有的法律條例的設計所以這部分我們是可以請大家再多討論那也先建請這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3833.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3857.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
這條第一條可以先以保留以上好好發明稱保留現在審查現在審查第一張張名好 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3870.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3875.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
第一張照明照這兩個案子 照案通過第一張照明照國中兩黨及郭國文的18人把名稱照案通過照案通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3886.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3901.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
現在審查國中兩黨第一條條文以及對應我們郭國文的第一條請林業勤委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3903.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3912.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
在這邊我還是要再三的去強調今天要去做這樣子一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3914.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
3937.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
為什麼我前面講說會加大貧富差距所以剛剛曾經會有人講說我怎麼有自答 沒有從頭到尾我都認為今天沒有錯我們的台灣兒少未來教育及發展賬戶的確存的人事實上是只有六成那其中七成事實上是有存款有四成沒開戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
3939.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
3958.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
那個東西在做的時候它事實上是社會救助的概念本來就是要幫助弱勢那為什麼我今天提到說今天如果今天我們要通過這個台灣如果我們要通過台灣未來賬戶的話會造成貧富差距更大是什麼因為這邊本來就有家長自存所謂的企業贊助這一塊就會讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
3960.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
3974.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
有钱的家长呢他自己自存更多如果刚刚提到说台湾刚刚如果提到儿少未来教育及发展账户针对弱势就是有困难就是因为弱势本来他要 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
3975.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
3999.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
有這樣子的一個存款本來即便存500都有困難所以應該如果今天政府有錢的話也要先照顧弱勢所以從頭到尾都沒有沒有抵觸到說我的理念所以不知道剛才為什麼陳金輝委員會去講說什麼如果的確啊那個事實上是社會社會救助社會弱勢啊那你家你如果用了這個今天要去討論這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4003.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4008.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
特别条例的话反而事实上是让有钱的人更有钱那若是 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4009.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4036.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
事實上反而會是在這一局裡邊事實上是被邊緣化不是嗎所以我要先行提這一件事情另外一個就是說今天第一條第一條聽起來是說明未來帳戶立法的目的那政策目標列了五大項可是整個政策目標呢不明一個未來帳戶除了因應我們的嫂子女化還要解決跨世代貧富差距我覺得他沒有解決跨世代貧富差距 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4037.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4059.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
馬上就現世代就讓了貧富差距更大了還有弱勢人才培育那我也不知道那個人才培育在哪邊還有保障創業資源教育資源政策目標混雜不清那因為我覺得少子綠化不能只單靠單一的工具OECD2024年的報告就指出 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4059.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4080.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
少子女化牽涉到住房的成本托育資源薪資的停滯工時過長職場性別不平等的交織性問題無法靠一個單一政策來貼補需要我覺得整體的一個政策的組合而且總說明那邊我就覺得事實上參考的 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4082.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4098.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
案例事實上是適當的比如英國的兒童信託基金CTF早就因為財政困難跟政黨輪替就終止了新加坡的兒童發展帳戶事實上除了此帳戶外還有教育儲蓄的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4100.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4126.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
制度跟住房貼補跟有薪育嬰假等完整的配套事實上美國的大而美的法案呢美國一次性的提供每位新生兒1000元的美金美元的啟動金我們提高到一次5萬元你看美國的人均的GDP是我們的兩倍我們卻要挹注的事實上是超過他們的近一倍的錢所以而且今天如果要講說 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4129.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4134.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
說我們是在解決貧富差距台灣的未來帳戶的這個設計家長自存高達一年十萬企業贊助款一年高達五萬還可以抵稅那我 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4144.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4169.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
经济良好的家长他的企业可能事实上比较有可能是幸福企业弱势呢事实上他很难会遇到有这么好的企业主还可以帮他去提五万因为又可以抵税为什么我们的原来的税收可以去来贴补更高而可以去支应去这些比较有能力的家长那18年后呢存好存满的护育孩子跟几名依靠政府贴补的弱势孩子 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4170.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4194.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
光本金差距就高達180萬再加上18年的投資富力成長的話所以如果那個資產的落差甚至會擴大到250萬甚至到300萬以上這真的是在解決我們的貧富差距嗎所以我不認為說他還可以什麼解決世代的貧富差距簡直是在擴大現代此時此刻的貧富差距以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4197.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4222.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
現在請楊耀委員 楊耀委員發言完請王玉明委員我想是這樣子因為第一條就是立法的目的我們的草案名稱是特別條例特別條例通常是在處理緊急臨時性的重大問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4223.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4252.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
那我想所有的人都知道少子化跟跨世代的貧富差距它本身就不會是一個短期的問題所以我們用特別條例然後用有時間性的來處理這樣子一個長期性的問題可能就會更造成世代之間的差異 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4254.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4271.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
懂我意思嗎就是說在條例的實施期間內的12歲以下的兒童有得到國家的財政挹注特別條例過了以後時間過了以後就沒有了 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4275.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4287.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
那這個第一很明顯的違背特別條例本身在制定的方向跟用意 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4288.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4311.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
它是有緊急跟時間性的就是說用特別條例然後我們看要處理的問題就不是一個短期性的問題我覺得假如說真的一定要處理就是乾脆不設年限 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4313.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4339.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
這乾脆不是在連線 不是不是我們現在是不是不是我們現在是是在討論一個是在討論一個立法的概念就是說它看起來就不會是一個是一個短期性的問題那不是短期性的問題卻用特別條例來處理這個我想大家大家就是應該要好好的思考這個問題啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4342.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4356.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
那個討論這一題之前我想要請是不是衛福部部長可以跟大家說明一下今天那個賴總統提出的少子化大禮包其中有一個是6到18歲他說要提撥2500 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4358.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4368.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
也是進到帳戶那這一個的做法到底是什麼因為現在外界對是每個月這個做法是什麼因為事實上他這一個跟我們現在在談的稍微來帳戶事實上性質是很雷同的 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4373.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4392.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
那剛剛有些委員是反對那我也要請教就是說那賴總統這一個呢他到底他用預算來源是什麼然後他需不需要立法是不是要在今天的立法裡面是合併在一起因為不能是總統一個人說了算啊對不對總統一個人說了算的東西那更沒有保障了他又不是永遠當總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4394.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4404.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
所以就是說這一套制度到底要怎麼做我覺得剛好今天我們在討論那個方向性是不是一致的是不是請部長先說明我們再繼續討論好不好來請部長說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4412.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4438.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
主席跟各位說明目前行政院的規劃我們是跟之前我們的育兒津貼的做法一樣它是用成長津貼的方式來操作那麼在0到6歲的時候是以現金給予的方式就跟我們現行的育兒津貼一樣每個月進到父母或者是照顧者的帳戶裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4439.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4458.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
然後到了六歲以後呢那麼這個五千元呢就會有一半兩千五百到前面的做法繼續發那麼另外的兩千五呢就會放到一個我們主管機關所開設的一個帳戶裡面那麼它是一個大水庫並不是個人的實名帳戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4459.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4487.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
那這一筆錢呢就會放在這裡面讓我們委託操作讓他可以有這個收益然後到了18歲之後再由這個兒少本人來領取所以他並沒有個人的帳戶的開設所以在整個行政作業上不需要去有開戶這個動作那是等到他18歲的時候領取所以他是一個延遲給付的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4487.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4504.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
那他是每個月兩千五嘛對不對我們不會用每個月兩千五我們是用一整個人數然後可能一年撥一次進去一個人是多少啊算人頭一個人一樣是兩千五對啊那不是就是一個人兩千五嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4509.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4524.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
一次播就看那個有多少人啊對啊 所以還是按人口啊就是一個人2500嘛你只是半年 每個月2500然後半年播一次嘛 對不對不是 是播到我們大水庫我知道啦 但是播就是你是半年會播到那個大水庫的帳戶嘛對對啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4527.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4531.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
那請問這個跟我們現在在討論的,國民黨跟民眾黨提出來,我們是0到12歲,然後每個月播,其實也是同樣的概念,就是18歲的時候就是可以領啊,只是金額的不一樣,還有年齡的不一樣,那你的預算來源是哪裡? |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4547.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4562.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
我們是循預算法32條33條納入施政計畫編列年度預算在立法院審查通過後執行所以你是用公務預算對那這個預算可以討論嗎那你這個預交實施多久你的法源在來自於哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4563.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4587.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
法源就按照預算法就像我們現在的育兒津貼一樣不是啊你這個政策你也可以隨時喊卡跟育兒津貼一樣啊不是啊那你這個就沒有一個立法的原則不會家長更沒有更沒有信任感啦你的法源依據都沒有什麼不會你也不是永遠當部長啊總統也不是永遠當總統啊你們離開之後下一任說改就改了不是嗎沒有啊育兒津貼現在也是這樣做沒有啊下一任說改就改啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4588.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4617.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
這就是沒有立法保障嘛這個比起我們今天討論的更沒有保障剛剛有民進黨的委員說這個用特別條例沒有永遠的保障那就是立法啊那立法不是更有永遠的保障你這種政策性的真的說改就改了啦第二個呢我們的這個設計上呢不會有自存款那不需要開戶所以對民眾來講方便第二個不會擴大貧富差距的問題所以你有排富是不是不是沒有自存款 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4618.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4637.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
沒有自存款這跟這個有什麼關係呢自存款那是家長自己在提撥出來你政府你如果講成這樣子你政府如果講成這樣子那除非你有排骨啊有能力者才會有提自存款沒能力者他沒有自存款所以它是不一樣的所以我們這個是一樣的公平不會有自存款的設計 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4638.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4654.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
一樣的公平在我們現在討論的台灣未來賬戶政府撥的也一樣啊大家一視公平啊不一樣因為它後面還有整體利益分配以及國庫必須撥補的問題那是不一樣的整個設計上完全不同你這邊還公務預算支出你國庫沒有撥補喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4656.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4681.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
我們對每個人的撥補是一樣的我們的兒童未來賬戶也是都是一樣的現在這個設計是個人不同每一個人的賬戶裡面都不一樣不是 政府撥補的都是一樣的所以這個都是公平的不一樣 你多的就補得多因為它每一個人的賬戶都不同你要撥進去的時候每個人所得也會不一樣我們的法條裡面有收入多 補得多嗎因為它有保證基本收益 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4683.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4709.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
保證基本收益啊你講哪一條你講哪一條我們可以拿出來討論可是主席這樣會不會太跳躍勢啊你剛剛不是要依序來嗎你剛剛想到一條就討論一條如果這樣子我下次發言我可以問好幾條啊不用這樣處理啦現在第一條你就回到第一條嘛你這樣看起來很像總體討論耶這不像是主條討論耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4714.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4729.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
這個第17條這個是個人第17條對不足的時候都要每個都要保障他的這個兩年定期存款利率所以每一個人的帳戶多者領的補得更多 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4735.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4753.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
主席這制度上討論已經混要了好 沒關係我們還是回到那個主條討論我們剛才登記委員我這邊有登記接下來陳金輝結束完是郭國文郭國文結束是邱惠蔚邱惠蔚結束是李昆成委員好不好不好意思 陳金輝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4754.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4770.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
好 剛剛我也覺得有一些委員很跳躍式的在討論那如果要討論第一條大家就好好討論第一條不要再跳去別的地方不過我補充一下剛剛部長所說的我翻了一下第十七條就是保障定存的利率 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4771.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4789.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
然後保障收益然後再來呢自存款是鼓勵任何人都可以生小孩提高生小孩的誘因到底我們現在不是在專注少子化嗎主席因為剛才很多委員也已經在講後面的東西了像我也是剛才講第一條啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4794.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4813.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
剛剛很感謝羊羊委員提出說特別條例是為了應付緊急重大的問題等等的那我想跟大家講一下現在我們小子化的狀況是有多麼的緊急這個生育率叫做0.6950.695是世界上還沒有國家出現的數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4814.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4839.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
這個是去年去年本來衛福部跟行政院跟我們說有一個13萬新生兒保衛戰最後到年底總諮詢的時候說應該可以撐到11萬結果答案出來是10萬多然後今年每一個月每一個月都是20%的下跌跟去年同期的數字比我不知道什麼叫做緊急這個已經夠緊急了吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4841.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4859.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
我們跟世界倒數第二名的國家是有一個極大的落差所以今天並不是在討論說這個特別條例有沒有辦法可以解決少子化而是每一個委員會不管是跟少子化任何提高誘因的方式我們都應該要拿進來討論所以我們今天就是拿進來討論嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4861.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4887.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
那我講一下剛剛這個過去的兒少帳戶因為剛剛部長也有點自己在打自己以前這個衛福部的帳戶的臉因為你以前其實就是可以家長對準那以前的問題是什麼以前的問題是第一開戶的程序很繁瑣然後審計部多次的點出各縣市推動不力高雄的開戶率曾經只有三四成 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4888.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4909.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
那我們現在是想要把開戶的流程變得比較容易一點第二個是你就是之前就已經有家長對存的概念了嘛衛福部以前就有家長對存但是誘因不足啊還有最後他很多人是沒有辦法繼續把它存下去的所以我們其實就是在落實賴總統的政見 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4912.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
4936.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
因為我們提出這件事情的時候衛福部是一概的反對但是520賴總統在台上清清楚楚的說出他要做這個未來帳戶然後讓每一個小朋友有一個看得到未來的制度當他成年的時候就有低桶金可以做未來教育就業創業租屋買房的重要支持那他也可以去他也可以去深造 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
4937.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
4942.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
那這個跟落實人才培育發展是哪邊對不起來是很符合的吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
4943.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
4960.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
那我們本來就不是處理單一的問題而是我們現在所有委員會都必須要動起來不管是內政不管是教育不管是財政不管是觀光交通所有的政策本來就應該環繞手指畫來做並且有貼近嘛那這是一個未來發展資本的問題就賴總統520都認可這個方向所以我覺得應該要支持我們這個版本的通過才對 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
4975.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
4989.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
這個主席我要說明一下跟我們現行辦理的兒少教育發展帳戶不同那個有對存的是針對的是中低收入戶跟弱勢家庭的兒少才有對存 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
4991.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5010.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
那那個對存下呢因為未來我們有成長津貼也提高他的能力可以去存戶或開戶然後政府再對存進去對於這些弱勢的家庭兒少是有絕對的幫忙這個是搭配在一起的但是今天這個對存這個這個自存這個叫自存是不一樣的結果續存的人很少嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5014.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5030.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
我们现在才需要去用成长津贴或者是我们在六大生活津贴补助全面调高的时候呢那么提高他的能力能够去去自存进去那个儿少弱势儿少的教育发展账户那个设计是不一样 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5031.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5058.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
完全不同好請郭國文委員謝謝主席我剛剛我聽到那個藍白兩黨跟部長的對話我還是拉回來關於這一個兒少的這個投資儲蓄帳戶的這個條例而言我個人基本上提出的最主要概念其實是需要家庭政府跟企業從三方的角度當中來創造一個兒童的未來的可能性 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5059.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5081.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
那從家庭的部分為什麼我會主張有自體然後企業相對的提撥那政府相對的提撥而搭配在股票市場當中隨著資本市場成長而成長那之所以會這個概念其實是相對於啊原來的兒少專夫當中一個他是有特定對象的現在呢是一定年齡底下不分特定對象 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5082.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5102.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
但過去的兒少專戶當中呢它是一個存量的概念而不是一個流量的概念你單存量的概念你可以拿到的這個資本利得是非常微薄的可是你如果用流量的概念來說的話搭配整個資本市場的年化率超過10%的話那所創造出來的財富才是真正可以達到累積的效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5103.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5127.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
那為什麼說家庭要有責任政府要有責任呢因為過往我們把養兒育女的概念放在家庭的責任當中太重因此現在面臨少子化的問題國家也應該要有相對的責任也就是說國家之所以會有這個政策的原因是來自於這邊而我們公共預算之所以要提撥的一個原因的正當性也是來自於這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5128.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5146.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
那我看到呢今天衛務部所提出的這個內容當中相對而言比較於過去是有所進步的有的增加了一個流量的部分增加流量的部分可是還是有稍嫌不足的地方你如果2500是成長津貼的話那你另外一個2500你放在投資專務的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5147.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5171.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
那相對而言那2500成長津貼如果說我沒有那個需要這個津貼我是不是可以丟到投資賬戶呢這可以討論的嘛這除了字體之外的部分的一個津貼的移轉這個在制度上其實可以保留彈性的可是字體的部分也不是什麼罪惡嘛為什麼因為我們的勞工退休金賬戶的時候就有所謂的字體啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5172.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5193.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
那字體是每一個人財務管理的問題將來他累積的財富延遲性的給付金額會有所不同這也不是所謂的貧富差距這是大家對財務理財的概念的不同而已啦所以我是覺得字體加碼其實這個在在制度上的設計其實是可以調整的 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5194.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5219.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
這種調整的部分不論我個人的版本也好或者衛福部的版本也好就是可長可久制度的設計本來就要可長可久怎麼會像是藍白一樣只有13年的期間呢那13年之後那些小朋友怎麼辦那藍白設計的版本當中真誇張連那個手續費還有0.1的我就要問一下金管會的人有沒有來啊現在檯面上0050最低的情況底下都是0.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5221.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5241.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
這不符合台灣的現實上的一個收費標準嘛這非常清楚嘛所以我是覺得現階段而言啦我也覺得衛福部不要以現有的制度而置滿你既然已經突破了既有的制度當中把它加一個流量的一個設計但是呢你的自體的空間能不能保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5242.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5258.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
或者呢 你的這個成長今天能不能移轉來讓創造出小孩低桶金的時候從小桶會變中桶 中桶可以變大桶這是有可能性的 這不是沒有可能性的那你就通過我的版本就好啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5260.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5284.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
你跟大家都喊贊成你就通過我的版本就好啦那個 趙偉我們國民兩黨跟郭國文委員的版本都有共識是衛福部的沒有字體那個不好我跟你講啦字體 我現在在跟談一個概念上的問題嘛我在談一個概念上的問題你如果對我這麼很好 待會我就通過我的條文就好沒有 我跟你不一樣你們只有13年 我是可長可久 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5285.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5304.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
差很多好不好而且你們只有一次性的概念你們沒有一個家庭的概念你們沒有一個流量的概念那個真的不是一個賬戶了你不是官員你不要拿麥克風對我質詢啊這個要一個什麼叫TISA什麼叫TISATISA的部分就是一個投資的概念嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5305.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5316.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
拉長你要拉多長啊你一下子你就提撥了1400多億台灣的整個國家預算的負擔擴重嘛沒有沒有沒有沒有我跟你講我跟你講你們那個但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5317.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5337.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
它基本上的金額是不同那基本上你們一次是五萬然後這種設計方式所以拉回來說我說這制度上要如何可長可久要能夠兼顧不同面向的一個責任來創造小孩的低桶金的可能性我是覺得要回到這邊來 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5338.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5354.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
我肯定外部的部分呢它現在有增加一個流量的概念可是流量的概念呢不夠有彈性希望這個流量的概念能夠多一點彈性的情況底下我覺得這低桶型的設計還有小朋友未來的人生的起點才會更加有所保障好 請就候陸委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5359.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5373.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
主席還有各位委員大家好那我本來要論述的那個觀點一其實已經被國國文委員講走了因為我在想那個勞退薪資嘛雇主不是要提撥6%的勞退金給勞工嘛那其實有鼓勵那個勞工相對自體的部分那為什麼自體這個制度在勞退薪資裡頭沒有人去討論貧富差異那為什麼這個自體的制度來到TFA的這個帳戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5385.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5397.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
就有人要討論貧富差距所以我覺得不要模糊焦點我覺得自體他其實提供給父母就如同郭國文委員所說的依據自己自身的財務狀況多了一個多元的選擇彈性的選擇自願的選擇所以可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5401.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5416.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
不適合把貧富差距的概念拿來這邊做進一步的借題發揮或發揮那除此之外我要講的第二個觀點就是說因為剛剛也有委員在質疑說為什麼TFA帳戶可以落實人才的培育那我們這一筆 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5417.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5443.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
人生的第一桶金其實只限於五個用途第一個用途就是就學然後再來就就業然後再來房屋的公屋款再來租金還有再來就是創業基金那當然這些就業就學跟創業基金當然都指向這樣的一個目的人才的培育所以我覺得我們的設計跟立法理由並沒有漢格以上說明謝謝請李坤城委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5447.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5457.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
好 謝謝主席那剛剛我們這個財委會才審完跟國防部一起聯席審完這個軍購特別條例當初我們要提這個軍購特別條例的時候那在野黨怎麼講編入這個年度預算就好啦我們就是這個每年度編預算就好啦為什麼要用特別條例好 現在反過來現在反過來我們現在在這個未還委員會然後呢 在野黨又提出來一個這個這個這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5476.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5504.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
未來帳戶有特別條例那為什麼不要編在這個年度預算裡面要編一個特別條例咧所以這個態度跟邏輯都很矛盾就是說他們覺得說這個不重要就編入這個年度預算他們覺得很重要就編入特別預算所以這個是基本上是那個邏輯是矛盾的那第二個我想請問一下這個部長我們現在這個兒童津貼 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5506.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5520.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
我們現在兒童津貼我們有利用有特別設一個條例來給錢嗎我們現在是不是用這個這個衛福部有這個未滿兩歲的兒童育兒津貼一個森林住業要點 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5521.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5543.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
還有教育部有一個補助地方政府發放兩歲以上未滿五歲的這一個也是一個作業要點嘛我們現在是用作業要點來發這個津貼嘛那也沒有說一定要有特別條例才能夠發錢嘛我們就用這一個作業要點就可以來發錢了啊那怎麼可能說換了一個政府就不發錢那那個黨一定選不上 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5545.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5569.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
那所以說如果目前按照這個作業要點那我們就可以來這個發展這個兒童津貼的話那同理可推嘛那我們現在把這個範圍這個從0到6歲然後呢延長到18歲那理論上也是可以用這個所謂的這個作業要點來發這個津貼嘛這是第二個那第三個就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5572.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5581.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
這個帳戶的問題啦那我再請教一下部長我們現在這個勞退新制勞退新制我們有要特別開立一個帳戶嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5584.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5608.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
還是說這個只要勞工還是用勞退心智政府就用一個虛擬的一個帳戶按照你個人的身份證字號來設立一個虛擬的帳戶那反正你的錢就提撥到那邊那未來我們的這一個2500塊的這個所謂的這個兒少的這個帳戶是不是也是利用這個勞退心智這個概念 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5609.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5613.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
我們有設立一個虛擬的帳戶然後呢每個月我們就提撥2500塊我看部長是一直點頭啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5618.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5646.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
大概是不是這個概念嘛虛擬的一個帳戶就是有點類似這個勞退薪資這個帳戶的這個概念嘛就不用特別我啊我還要再去銀行開一個帳戶就不用對啊那這樣不是利用現有的要點現有的做法然後把到0到18歲我們這個政府要給這一個這個家長的這一個育兒津貼那現有的法制都可以做啦那不就很好了嗎那這樣就很好就按照這樣子來做就好了好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5649.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5670.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
跟委員補充說明我們的育兒津貼是在100年就101年就已經開始了只是逐年有在按照這個這個狀況去調整所以一開始的時候一個月是2500所以這個是從101年開始就已經以以我們的這個給付行政的方式在進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5674.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5678.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
好 請陳金輝委員 接下來陳金輝委員 接下來是林益勤召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5680.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5707.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
剛剛就是郭國文委員反映說我們不要質詢但其實我們是想附和他因為郭國文講的真的是非常的好那今天也跟我們藍白白白一起來討論因為他講到說要有個人要有政府要有企業這完全就是符合我們版本內容因為剛剛部長倒是覺得不是部長不好意思有一些委員倒是覺得說有一些人他可能沒有企業這樣子不好但是郭國文委員是贊成有個人有政府有企業的 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5708.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5725.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
那另外還有委員說到不可以自提將會造成貧富差距結果郭委員又說自提是個人財富的規劃大家本來就可以按照自己資產狀況來提所以自提不是原罪那我現在覺得是不是我們就送保留因為看起來我們這邊跟郭國文委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5728.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5737.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
概念幾乎都很像反而是部長跟委員跟郭國文的版本不太一樣然後也不太贊成他的想法要還是你們自己協調一下我們這邊先先送保留好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5744.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5761.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
我還是要再次強調雖然剛才我們的邱委員講說沒有啊 不要一直在講說擴大貧富差距那如果根據現在的條例大概除了政府給每位孩子的啟動金跟補助款外家長每年還是可以自存最高10萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5762.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5791.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
那家长的雇主也能替员工子女加码存入五万且享有抵税的优惠可是一个高收入家庭的孩子自存款跟企业赞助款如果每年存好存满的话18岁账户本金就可以累计到196万可是如果是家庭孩子来讲的话如果家长没有稳定工作没有多余的钱这本来就是很残酷的现实嘛所以最后只能只剩下政府投入的16万光是本金差距就有180万怎么没有贫富差距呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5791.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5807.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
那上次公聽會開公聽會的用意就是要讓我覺得很多專家學者來看這件事情那可是我覺得如果公聽會講完之後大家也很多學者是持反對那我覺得公聽會看起來是過水的為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5808.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5828.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
因為上次公聽會本來就有很多公安學者就已經有高度質疑像蔡明芳教授就指出該草案無法真正解決少子化問題並直言在貧富差距的基礎上繼續談平權就是繼續維持貧富差距甚至擴大貧富差距那我們台大的鄭麗珍教授也 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5828.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
5847.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
提醒以資產累積方式投資兒童的政策方向並非不可行可制度上設計要非常精緻否則讓不同家庭的資產差距的話出現會出現巨大的斷層可現在的規劃的這個台灣未來帳戶特別條例裡面根本就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
5848.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
5875.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
踩中了他讲的这个雷点不是吗那甚至叶崇洋教授也认为说政府应该投资在公共托育而不是投入到金融市场他甚至批评这个该制度不是在投资在未来的孩子身上而是在投资在金融市场上那事实上投资在有钱人身上怎么会没有贫富差距所以我就不懂说为什么一直要把我们的儿少未来教育及发展账户 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
5876.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
5896.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
去混淆然後一直在講說這個事實上是擴大不是當初我們的未來教育及發展商戶也就是弱勢的那個是社會救助可是如果你那邊本來就對於弱勢他本來就產生很多要存款上的困難了結果你又要再做這一個的話那 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
5897.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
5920.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
加上家長自存跟企業贊助都有結稅那怎麼會是把這些錢用在一個提振反而是提振有錢人反而事實上針對弱勢反而沒有幫助呢 以上好 第一條我們今天討論很久沒有共識那我們就保留那現在審查國民黨黨團 臺灣民眾黨團第二條及郭國文等18人第三條 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
5937.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
5963.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
我覺得這個定位就有衝突因為現行的兒少教育發展帳戶組織待會事實上是社救師他本來就是社會救助核心事實上是社會救助那台灣未來帳戶自稱社會投資怎麼而且可能演變為排幅排平甚至擴大貧富差距就主管機關通一樣放在衛福部這個就不太理解這個定位似乎很大衝突 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
5967.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
5996.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
好 陳婕蕙委員好 剛剛很明顯的看到這個執政黨委員之間的看法落差就已經是蠻大的人了那我想講一下因為剛剛很多人一直講到說公托公用或者是津貼等等的我跟大家回顧一下我把數據整理過了過去十年大概花了六千億而這六千億的八成到九成大概都是花在你們所講的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
5997.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6025.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
這個津貼啦教育部啊衛福部啊等等的結果你們覺得這個可能不會改善少子化你們那個改善少子化了嗎這10年的少子化是雪崩式的下降但是你們那個6000億的確是花了八九成的錢都在裡面喔所以很明顯的你們那個也沒辦法改善少子化是非常的極度快速的下降啊那我們會把主管機關定在衛福部其實不是沒有原因的 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6026.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6055.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
因為過去的這個兒少發展帳戶本來就是衛福部來主管也由衛福部來負責相關行政作業換句話說你們不會很陌生並不是從零開始那當然根據了解大概你們累積了一定規模的資金有20億元左右過去是由衛福部來推動現在來承接擴大升級成台灣未來帳戶衛福本來就跟其他部會比是比較有制度經驗的主管機關所以我們一開始把主管機關定為衛福部是希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6056.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6082.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
行政的責任可以清楚不要一開始讓各部會之間推來推去那當然我們也理解如果這個制度進一步涉及基金管理賬戶收支保管投資運用就不是為何不單獨可以處理這部分如果行政機關認為應該由勞保局協助賬戶的收支跟保管由勞動基金運用局協助基金的運用跟管理我們都可以一起討論看未來條文要怎麼樣寫的最精準謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6091.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6097.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
請問各位還有沒有意見沒有意見就保留現在進入國民黨黨團 台灣民眾黨團第三條郭國文的18人第二條 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6123.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6126.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
各位媒介如果沒有的話請行政機關說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6134.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6157.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
这一款主要都是在谈名词定义那么名词定义里头又涉及到拨补款的时机额度这个整个体力上的写法是有一些比较不同于我们 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6158.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6171.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
像郭國文委員的版本他不會有這個額度金額等等因為這個純粹就是名詞定義這個條文上可能需要修改請問鄭旭委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6180.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6200.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
謝謝主席我們這個第三條主要是針對於這個本條例的用詞的相關的定義一共看到這個國中兩黨的版本裡面有提了包括123456各方面的這個定義那在這個定義裡面像它的第五 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6202.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6221.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
自存款的部分是以開戶人的名義來自行存入其台灣未來帳戶的款項每年會每帳戶以新台幣12元為限至開戶人到12歲為止那這部分其實在當天供電會的時候有很多的專家學者 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6222.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6243.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
非常非常的擔心我把他們的擔心提出來也跟大家在這邊共同來確認一下包括台大的鄭麗珍教授他就發表他的專家核心觀點認為說從資產累積的社會福利哲學來看的話政策設計的核心必須是協助弱勢跨越 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6244.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6261.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
階級的鴻溝如果在國中兩黨提出來版本裡面允許高額的家長自存並給予政府保證收益與租稅減免就是後面處理的部分的話那在實務上呢會面臨嚴重的這個所得逆向的淘汰 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6262.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6277.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
那中低收入與邊緣家庭因生活基本開銷龐大根本無力進行儲蓄而高資產家庭呢則能夠存滿上限的這個套取國家的紅利那這個會導致富者越富貧者愈貧 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6278.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6296.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
利用國家的預算來擴大世代貧富的不均就好像剛剛部長所提到的所以這部分可能我們針對這個定義的地方還有他的這個內容真的需要來整勝請大家再來演繹以上好 接著請林育群召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6299.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6325.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
雖然這邊在講的是定義可是我們還是要講因為有講說每一個款項到底都有金額我覺得參考美國大而美的法案的啟動金只有1000美金那美國人均的GDP僅一半而已那可是我們啟動金卻可以給到5萬那我們是有比美國的那個政府的財力更雄厚嗎甚至我們的GDP就跟他們不太一樣第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6329.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6355.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
現行的我們的兒少教育發展賬戶的經驗就已經很清楚的是只有三四成的符合弱勢家庭的那個事實上是他根本沒有辦法開戶他連五百塊都拿不出來因為最大的原因就是真的沒有錢可存那忽略弱勢處境的這樣的設計就是結果就是什麼我們現在多數人拿到政府普哈的基本款的話不至於二十可是家長好像多 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6356.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6384.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
高收入的家長可能多了一套利滾利的投資工具我實在看不出來這樣子的一個設計真的有能夠去解決我們的問題因為500塊都存不起可是法案卻真的事實上是針對於設定每一年最高可存10萬自存款那甚至5萬塊的一個企業的贊助款那真的就還是僅有利於我們高收入的一個家庭那真的對弱勢反而真的差距會更遠以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6388.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6407.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
那我本台是没有共识我们就保留接下来进行国民党党团台湾民政党党团第4条郭国文等18人第4条先请为何不说明额报告委员会因为这个 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6408.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6431.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
第四條主要談中央主管機關展禮事項這個涉及到整個條文的設計所以我們建議先保留看到最後的這個設計再來再來討論這個職長事項好那這條保留接下來進行國民黨黨團台灣民眾黨團第五條郭國文的18人第五條請回覆說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6433.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6461.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
那這個也是涉及到整個這個制度的設計在地方主管機關上應該辦理的事項所以建議保留好保留好第6條保留接下來進行應該還好吧第6條就單純第6條可以用對啊第6條就單純了對一起一樣的12歲一個是18歲 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6464.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6469.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
我先念完然後我們現在進入第六條國民黨黨團台灣民眾黨團第六條及郭國倫等18人第六條先請問夫說明這個兩個條文的差 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6485.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6491.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
102年102年現在是幾歲102年現在是13歲所以好像這個對不起來就條文還是不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6504.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6522.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
這兩邊的設計是不一樣一個是公佈實施起初生一個是從公佈日起後初生才適用那一個是以102年9月22號以後初生做切點這兩個適用對象是不一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6525.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6554.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
那個他第六條之所以那個藍白版本會有這樣的設定其實他是有一個起氣的一個時間概念啊也就是說呢他從102年9月出生然後13年也就到1159月為止就是有一個段落式的但是不是延續式的就是這個版本裡頭最大的盲點的地方但是我這邊起點是隨著法案生效而生效作為起點也沒有所謂的終點他這個法案是有終點的所以他只照顧一個general這樣13年的小孩 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6554.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6576.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
那13年之後的小孩怎麼辦這問題點是最大的盲點南北最大的盲點是在這邊所以這個條文內容是不一樣那這個本條保留對啊不然外部有沒有修正的意見保留嗎OK好 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6582.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6589.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
現在進行國民黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團第七條郭國文等18人第七條那有主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6592.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6613.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
我想這個條文當中的這個題目款項其實跟現在衛福部所設計的內容當中那個池部長我想也需要跟您對話一下你們現在的部分放到一個大水池當中那你如果透過類似像代鈔的概念代鈔那我要請問一下你代鈔的資本利得回歸到是這個整體的帳戶還是個別的 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6618.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6646.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
你如果整體賬戶的話那變成是以後國家會減少提撥而已你知道嗎你不會因為這個資本利得而讓每一個人而有所獲利你懂我意思嗎如果放在這個賬戶當中是五萬你理當你就要如果我個人賬戶是你就要回饋給我這一坨金舉兩個例子一個呢目前勞工退休金這個專戶當中也就是企業所屬的名稱的這個專戶資本利得操作的結果就會歸到企業裡頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6648.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6674.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
個別的勞工不會因此收益而是減少了雇主提撥的金額可是你如果放在一個個人帳戶之的話你是分配給每一個不同的人每一個人有一個account這個account當中你如果成長我就隨著你主持成長我就可以增加這才會有流量的累積所以說你這個設計其實是讓國家收益並沒有讓這些小朋友收益 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6675.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6704.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
如果說你是整體account的話那沒有太大的意義啊你這個流量是另一種存量的概念不是真正的流量部長你懂我意思嗎所以你不應該這樣設計才對啦你們這個東西過度保守啦我說的在的而且你2500的部分成長今天不一定要那麼多人需要成長今天你這個設計是未來的一桶金才是最關鍵的嘛不是生活津貼的概念嘛有需要全民都需要生活津貼嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6705.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6730.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
如果不需要的話你應該讓他可以提撥到去所以說你回到一個account每一個account的概念那成本不會很大老實講那成本不會很大因為一年出生的小孩大概多少十萬人以下這成本形成成本怎麼會很大呢所以部長我請你三思一下你不能用一個總體的大水池的概念這個沒有真正的流量的概念他不會隨著資本成長而成長而讓他的未來的所得增加而增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6736.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6760.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
陳千惠委員就是我們還是很很很謝謝郭國文委員的發言不用謝謝委員 贊成我的版本就好了剛剛有一位那個委員說我們的條例是不是不夠謹慎說我們雙標這個時候就可以用條例但是我們的版本是把裁員規模還有期程是寫得很清楚的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6761.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6779.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
那我覺得當然我們現在是設13年但如果他做得好他繼續延續下去當然是沒有問題因為我們後面也有寫他的優點就在於每三年檢討一次其實現在藍白委員比較擔心的是每年放進去的錢越來越少因為我們現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6780.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6797.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
每年的新生兒是以一萬多人在下降的今年是沒有辦法預期但其實衛福部其實你們也可以去統計現在有在做產檢的人是多少你們幾乎就可以知道說今年你們明年第一桶金 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6798.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6816.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
放進去的會少多少這個是一個最恐怖的問題所以假使這個13年的期程你們可以基本上維持或者是如果還可以稍微升高那就很值得慶祝了我現在是擔心我們明年要放進去的錢是驟降大概是這樣子概念那本條是沒有公司我們就保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6829.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6838.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
现在进行国民党党团台湾民政党党团第8条郭国文等18人第8条请为一部说明 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6844.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6861.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
這個條文是針對這個制度上來做做咨詢代表因為這個有協調因為這個我就不了解因為這個制度的設計裡面都有提到要協調 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6863.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6888.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
我就比較不清楚這個地方的協調是什麼就諮詢推動大概是可以理解但是還有一個什麼協調這個就比較不理解這個立法者的意志因為這兩條條文都一樣能不能就照案通過保留啊保留好那就保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6893.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6912.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
現在進行國民黨黨團、台灣民政黨黨團第九條郭國文等18人第九條好 請問不說明這個看起來第九條的意旨是希望對這個制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6913.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
6938.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
進行研究然後來公佈研究的參據所以但是兩個版本當中有的是三年一次一個是定期如果是要這個到底是這個制度上的參與情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
6940.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
6966.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
執行情形做研究應該本來就是會進行的所以是不是要這個條文的存在是不是可以不必要有這樣的一個情形因為已經有上面那個第8條如果未來有那個制度的話就大概不需要第9條 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
6973.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
6999.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
好 我們的版本就是明併說中央主管機關要做一個法律效果評估剛剛有講到這個少子化對策計劃其實就是缺少了這個評估所以我們不知道我們投進去這八九成的錢到底是應該要繼續投還是應該要改變還是以前的問題有沒有改善那剛剛有很多人提到說家長的 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7001.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7018.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
這個加入或者是企業的加入到底是不是一個正面的效果那這個當然也是經過每三年一次的法律效果評估我們就可以知道這個制度的開戶率怎麼樣家庭的參與情形怎麼樣對孩子的資產累積有沒有幫助 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7019.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7048.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
對小子化政策有沒有正面影響然後對雇主協助他的員工去投資在家庭協助他的員工去成立家庭對雇主是不是一個正向的流財的一個概念那當然如果效果好就可以繼續擴大如果有地方不好我們就來檢討滾動式的調整這是一個成熟的政策設計所以我們的好處就是把定期檢討寫到法律中讓這個制度未來可以不斷的修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7048.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7066.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
而不是變成另一個花錢但是沒有人追蹤成效的政策謝謝好 林玉琴再問既然這政策事實上前面都沒有辦法先行評估到底需求或整個狀況而且前面條文都保留的話那我覺得建議第九條也是保留對 對 好 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7069.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7080.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
好 保留第九條好 我們就保留第九條現在進入第二章 專戶肢體領與群領國民黨黨團 台灣民眾黨黨團郭國文的示範是第二章 戰戶開立及管理請問不說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7097.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7114.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
因為這個章名涉及到下面制度的設計所以可能還是要先保留好那我們第二章章名保留現在進入國民黨黨團台灣民眾黨黨團第十條郭國麟的十八人第十條前衛補說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7127.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7143.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
這個兩個版本有不同一個是直接就指定了勞工保險局來辦理那一個是由中央主管機關來委託金融主管機關辦理這個有很大的差異性所以可能需要再討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7153.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7178.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
不一樣就保留吧好那第四條保留我們建議國民黨黨團民、台灣民眾黨黨團第十一條因為第十一條跟前面的第十條有相關聯性所以建議保留第十一條保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7180.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7187.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
我们进入国民党党团台湾民众党党团第12条国共党18人第11条请外部说明 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7194.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7214.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
所以這個也是有很大的差異一個是通知法定代理人一個是通報主管機關所以這兩個設計制度設計上是不一樣的完全是不一樣的所以可能也是要請大家再討論或者事先與保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7221.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7237.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
我们保留国民党党团台湾民众党党团第12条郭国荣党18人第11条我们进入国民党党团台湾民众党党团第13条郭国荣党18人第12条请为何不说明 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7243.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7270.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
這兩個設計上也是很大落差一個是到這個每月折訂之後呢一個是到18歲一個是到12歲然後後面也有不同的設計一個是就結束了那一個是後面還有續存所以這個也有兩個版本上的差異性也是很大看看是要再討論或者是保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7271.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7297.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
是是我補充一下謝謝主席我想針對的就是那個我們第13條那就是民眾黨他們跟國民黨提的最後最後就是說開富人在錢向存入那個自存款的期間內不得提領台灣未來帳戶的結議金額這個結議的金額但是他有一個但書就是第19條跟第21條的鎖定的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7300.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7326.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
不在此限就是說他要死亡他是要身心障礙才可以那相對的相對的就是郭公委員的這個條文應該是想的比較周全就是說基本上這個就是一個社會福利那他希望就是說可以就學就醫有這個需求的時候我們還是不在這個此限所以我建議大家再討論看看謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7334.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7353.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
因為剛剛部長一直有提到說他建議可以修改一下可是他其實沒有講出他的修改的意見所以今天部長這邊是沒有對案也沒有修改的意見那我是想問一下到底你們具體的規劃是什麼時候才要把比較詳細的內容說出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7355.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7367.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
因為剛剛看到這個即時新聞有顯示說賴總統11點半要開記者會公布他的想法那是不是因為這樣子所以部長現在並沒有要把更多的細節釋出 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7374.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7400.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
好 那我們就保留國民黨黨團台灣民眾黨團團第十三條郭國麟等十二條我們現在進入郭國麟等十八人第十三條請問不說明因為這個跟前面的條文也有關聯性是不是也先保留好 那我們保留郭國麟等十八人第十三條我們現在進入國民黨黨團台灣民眾黨黨團第十四條 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7405.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7426.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
請問不說明這個就是有一個免納證與稅額度還有企業贊助也有免稅這個就是剛剛一開始就提到這個是會有社會公平性的問題所以這個原則上應該是保留或者是賦予這個列入這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7429.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7458.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
好 我們先保留國民黨黨團 台灣民眾黨黨團第14條我們現在進入國民黨黨團 台灣民眾黨黨團第15條郭國倫等18人第16條請為我部說明這個主要是要這個也是一樣這個設計到前面有什麼啟動金 輔助款 什麼資存款這個跟前面都有關聯性所以可能也是一併保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7461.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7466.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
16條主要是在對這個制度運作上的監理但是因為前面也是有很多已經保留了所以可以牽扯到這個監理事項所以這個也建議保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7489.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7494.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
好沒有委員說明那我們就請先保留國民黨黨團台灣民眾黨團第16條我們現在進行國民黨黨團台灣民眾黨團第17條郭國文等18人第15條主席我補充說明一下請問補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7519.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7538.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
這兩個版本的相關條文還是設計上有不一樣幾乎我們在處理基金賬戶的時候都會有一個最低收益條款不論是其他的社會保險都是如此 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7538.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7568.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
那17條藍白的版本他只有處理到兩年定存利率的一個收益為標準而已那本席的部分又加一個當年度消費者物價指數也就是CPI的部分這樣的加總其實才會有這個累積的可能性否則的話你搞不好還會邁拉斯的可能性你又沒有加這個CPI的條款的話這是本人的提案的版本內容跟藍白不同的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7571.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7590.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
那個趙偉剛剛那個新聞傳出來11點半賴清德總統他要交代記者會要對外去宣告他的這個整個的政策那因為部長就在現場我覺得部長應該要很清楚的告訴大家我剛剛就要求要清楚的 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7590.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7605.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
告訴大家就是說你應該要知道等一下總統要頒布的版本是什麼不會連部長都不知道啊那就拜託那個是不是可以請部長因為我們現在在審的這個是息息相關部長應該清楚跟大家講第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7606.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7623.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
就是說這一個的裁員他這個第一年因為是0到18歲嘛然後再加上一個是發津貼然後一個是這個6到18歲你2500你就是要變成是撥補那0到18歲反正就是一個人5000塊就對了 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7625.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7651.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
這個錢總共是多少錢就是要撥出來的款項是多少錢那主計長在這邊對不對就是要確定那個從什麼時候要開始撥補然後金額是多少然後那個錢是從哪裡來我覺得這個部分因為部長跟主計長都在這邊應該要跟國人說明清楚另外一個我剛剛質疑過的你這個是沒有法源的僅憑 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7654.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7677.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
賴總統開記者會那他會不會想了半年之後又覺得不妥就修正然後家長就空歡喜一場會不會有這樣的問題他政策的不穩定性你如果不是透過一個立法的保障難道是憑總統一句話嗎有這種事嗎而且他涉及到的範圍這麼大又是0到18歲那我覺得這件事情剛好今天我們就在審議這個衛福部部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7679.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7699.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
就是應該有責任跟外界說明清楚在他欠缺法源依據的情況底下他怎麼樣去承諾就是確保這個0到18歲如果從現在開始出生的到18歲這18年間不會有任何的變化因為基本上是要透過立法的保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7700.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7726.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
這個才會是一個穩定的變化剛剛這個民進黨的委員還在說這個國民黨這個什麼零到13號這個是階段性的這個不穩定連這個你們都要批評那個賴總統一句話現在等一下要開記者會這個更沒有保證啊那這一塊怎麼去確保政策的持續性跟穩定性你不透過立法嗎衛福部不透過立法嗎那我覺得這些問題請這個衛福部講清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7729.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7755.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
好 請李坤昌委員好 謝謝主席那我再重申一次我們現在有育兒津貼那育兒津貼呢也沒有用特別立法來發這個育兒津貼那我剛才說過了我們現在就是有這個育兒津貼的這一個森林住業要點那用這個要點就是法源依據不是說這個賴總統的一句話那今天就要發五千然後要發多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7756.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7774.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
政府要發任何的津貼一定都有法源的依據那這個法源依據目前就是有作業要點利用這個作業要點來發這個津貼這已經發了這麼久了然後發了這麼久我也沒有聽到在野黨委員說怎麼可以發呢你們又沒有這個特別條例又沒有法制化怎麼可以發呢沒有嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7775.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7793.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
發多少年了那所以說既然今天已經有這一個註冊要點那大家也領得很開心那我想說用這個要點既然可以來發放這個津貼那本來是0到6歲現在是0到18歲這沒有什麼矛盾的地方這個是有法源依據的那請不要再說這沒有法源的依據了 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7795.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7809.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
那個是行政單位說改就改的大家都知道這不是透過立法院立法程序的今天我的意思就是說這個法源依據是有的這個不是說誰的一句話今天要發多少錢過去的兒童今天就是由法源依據在領了 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7813.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7833.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
過去的津貼在領了啊那過去在野黨也沒有說沒有這個津貼就不能領啊政策穩定性就是要透過立法院單獨立法通過我們這個津貼領多少年了領多少年了發多少年了我們才可以確保這個承諾是永久的是持續的不會因為賴總統只要是民進黨執政這一定是持續的我們不會永遠執政啊重點在這裡啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7835.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7844.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
這個不是這個目前就是目前這個作業要點這個作業要點就是在領啊那領了多少年你知道嗎通過通過已經領了多少年難道難道國民黨執政就把它廢掉嗎國民黨執政就把它廢掉了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7854.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7864.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
現在有這個今天不是沒有法源運鏡沒有法源運鏡怎麼發錢呢沒有法源運鏡怎麼發錢呢沒有法源運鏡怎麼發錢呢這是你們剛剛的邏輯你們自己不要忘了我們先請一個部長說明接下來部長說明以後請邱副委員跟林淑芳委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7874.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7892.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
好我想跟各位說明剛剛我之前也提到育兒津貼是從101年開始實施每月2500然後經過時間的更迭之後那麼增加了所以他並 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7893.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7916.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
並一個好的政策就會持續下去那麼101年我想大家也知道當時候的執政黨那麼現在也持續的在執行所以一直都沒有什麼特別的立法而是透過行政機關提據施政計畫依預算法編列預算送立法院審查通過之後執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7917.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7937.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
那這個成長津貼未來的成長津貼就是這個循這個現行的育兒津貼的方式來執行規模的話因為我們現在是每個月5000然後到18歲所以那麼每年的預算大概在1800億左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
7939.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
7957.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
那但是還是會有中央跟地方那麼依照財化法那麼來做的這個分擔今天也是一樣看財力等級會去做分配這個就跟育兒津貼的方式是一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
7961.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
7984.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
其實我要講的概念很精簡就是說沒有法源其實就很容易遭令細改那我們台灣不是就是一個法治國的國家嗎那法治國國家推崇的不就是依法行政嗎那你行政的前提你要有法律請問沒有法律如何落實依法行政這四個字那如果所有的政策都非常的好只需要有立法委員的共識或人民的共識就能夠執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
7985.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8013.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
如果這個前提真的存在的話那請問一下軍購特別條例為什麼要費心的讓他三讀通過那我想其實就是在於也是一個依法行政觀念的弱勢所以就是依法行政非常的重要然後不要雙標對於自己有好處的或沒好處的依法行政這個概念就是浮動性的我想人民是不樂見就是有立法委員這樣操作以上說明好請林時光委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8014.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8037.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
好各位就我想再問大家就是說我們大家提這樣的一個法案的目標是什麼難道不是因為少子化的政策那因為少子化的政策這個正本清源的議題那我們想我們到底要怎麼做才能夠讓這些年輕的夫妻他們願意生敢生那他們最重要的問題就是要養可是我們這個版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8042.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8048.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
在野黨提的版本有一個很大的問題它不只是裁員穩不穩定的問題還有一個很大的問題就是說原則上要等孩子滿18歲以後這些資金賬戶的資金才能用於就學就業職業訓練創業租屋和購屋而這樣的設計對一個經濟收入很穩定的家庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8065.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8084.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
或許是一種長期循序的安排但是對於若是近貧或特殊境遇或照顧負擔比較重的家庭特別是大多數的現在的年輕人的家庭而言他們考慮的可能是台灣話說一句話說親家就不夠了,要再爬山 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8088.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8104.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
所以他需要的是現在馬上每個月都給他錢每個月都拿到錢這才是比較實在的所以在這種狀況裡面國家的支持他必須在小孩出生生小孩 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8105.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8113.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
需要的時候就馬上給他支援如果你這筆錢要放18年對他來講是沒有鼓勵的性質他覺得太乾淨這個難關他就過不去了他哪有辦法等到18年以後所以這種狀況裡面你看到我一生出來我生了一個小孩0到6歲他需要托育 需要保母需要營養 需要醫療需要有人來照顧而這些照顧的配套要進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8134.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8152.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
那他念書了到國小階段了他要課後的照顧國中階段需要學習的輔助高中的階段需要就學的穩定高中階段要交通住宿計值的銜接所以這一種需求是扎扎實實每天每個月就需要錢的 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8153.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8179.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
在這種狀況裡面呢你如果錯過了你要他等18年以後才能拿的話成年以後的這一筆賬戶當然很好也很棒也很需要可是呢在18歲以前因為家庭條件不夠他年輕人不願意生或是因為家庭裡面的經濟資本的落差造成每個家庭裡面0到18歲階段 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8181.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8204.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
小孩所得到的資源不夠他這裡面等到18歲再來領這筆錢未必可以補得回來成長過程當中就已經這18年產生的落差18年來我每個月有錢的家庭他給小孩什麼樣的東西而我沒有辦法國小階段要給小孩什麼東西而我沒有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8205.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8222.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
高中要給他什麼而我沒有辦法都沒有拿到錢然後這種沒有辦法從0歲累積到18歲你叫18歲以後再給你這一筆錢這個落差真的不一定可以馬上補得回來所以我個人是支持說你每個月給他 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8224.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8241.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
在剛出生的時候給他或許對年輕夫妻來講他才願意對他們來講或許他才是一個真正的馬上的立即的立竿見影的在困頓當中給他們一個勇氣給他們一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8246.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8268.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
多少添一點資源給他們這樣比較務實啦所以其實我個人是認為說你最大的問題這個版本最大的問題就是說好像看起來很穩定的裁員可是是看得到吃不到在18歲以前看得到吃不到但是18歲以後我這個落差我就輸人一輩子已經輸在那裡你這裡要來補這個落差補得動大家都剛剛有很多人講過 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8276.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8294.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
這個洞還越插越大看起來18歲以後可以領可是18歲以後有錢的人的家庭和他的雇主拿了國家的逆補貼這都抵稅抵走了他們給這個他們的孩子的越來越多然後呢沒有錢的家庭然後他不是一個好工作的 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8295.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8322.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
他在18歲以後所拿的這個賬戶的錢跟那個有錢的人的小孩的錢落差也是越來越大啦所以這個還是一個抵稅之後的逆補貼國家把這個錢補貼到有錢的人身上國家把這個資源補貼到經濟富裕的家庭身上所以0到18歲沒有拿到現金已經產生落差18歲以後要開始領錢又是一大 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8323.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8340.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
落差而且是國家對有錢人的補貼比國家對窮的人的家庭的補貼更多這個逆補差又拉拉開了這樣一個大的距離雙重的雙兩個階段的0到18歲也這個兩個18歲以後的這兩個階段的落差都是這個法案很明顯存在的問題了 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8348.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8357.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
好我們請林玉晴到發言後再請陳建復委員陳建復委員或是劉瑟斌委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8360.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8384.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
應該不是講說這個政策永遠不檢討要不要法制化而是現階段不應該把修法當成政策上路的前提因為現在已經總統也提到要有0到18歲的成長津貼應該是馬上能夠讓家庭領得到制度跑得動再依執行的情況來檢討是否要提高法 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8385.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8410.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
歸的一個位階為什麼因為剛剛就一直在講因為今天也是一直以要點來執行那這個才是比較務實的做法如果制度本身會讓有錢的家庭存越多那稅扣稅事實上是越多那收益還是由國庫來保底就像剛剛林淑芬委員講的如果一旦18歲 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8412.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8438.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
有錢人家庭存豪存卯可以拿到196萬弱勢家庭拿到16萬一差180萬欸那怎麼會是照顧弱勢呢那反而真的是貧富差距很大所以如果把它寫進法律不叫保障是把不公平來讓它制度化而是要政策要穩定但不能穩定的是擴大貧富差距以上好 林子芬 我要補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8439.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8466.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
好 我再補充好 抱歉 我講兩句就好好 OK就是說我們是希望從出生就給錢啦這樣才實惠啦就是一生出來就給錢比較實惠啦而不是等18年以後再一個 再來等著零零到18歲零到18歲都五千嘛OK現在也都五千現在也都五千 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8472.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8492.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
我稍微補充一下我稍微補充一下因為剛剛還是有委員持續的提到企業家長不過你們不能一邊說很支持郭國文委員一邊又反對這個概念嘛一邊又反對這個概念那我現在是建議大家真的不要混為一談 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8493.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8520.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
現在講的好像我們沒有津貼的版本在野黨委員最近提出非常多津貼的版本並且是用現在最流行的字叫做對齊我們希望每一種家長都可以有他自己的選擇不管他是選擇公托不管他是選擇私托不管他是希望在家裡自己顧可是我們希望可以對齊這個津貼這個也是現在執政黨最喜歡用的一個概念就是我們要把它對齊 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8521.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8537.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
所以這個版本我們已經有提了那企業家長的納入一起去整個國家幫忙養小孩這個也是這個也是郭國文委員他希望部長可以三思的嘛那今天我們先姑且不論今天因為今天我們也有我們自己的版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8539.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8559.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
這個錢是家長呢他每個月用完津貼他maybe並沒有足夠的一日可以做儲蓄所以國家協助你幫你的小孩做儲蓄並且國家協助你投資這樣子你的小孩可能到18歲也許他不得不跟你分開的時候不管他是去就學或者是他去就業 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8560.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8587.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
那至少每一個在台灣出生的小朋友都會有他的第一桶金那也不要再去講說這個會擴大貧富差距擴大貧富差距我們可以調幼嬰或者是弱勢提升對存這個都是我總諮詢提出來的方法我們也可以拿出來討論這個我們也支持並且其實不管是Google版本或者是我們的版本都是有設定在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8588.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8603.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
雇主或者是家長提撥進去也是有設定一個上限但這個上限如果要討論大家也可以列出來討論嘛對那我現在認為啦因為一個每一個月每一個月都不到一萬的出生 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8604.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8627.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
每一個出生人都非常的寶貴每一個出生人我們都必須要同事一視同仁同步的去守護他們那當然小子化除了我們在這邊講的津貼還有這個未來賬戶我們在黨委員比如說最近很多在財委會他們也在討論說六歲以下有國家的津貼可是六歲以上有花了很多錢在安親班補習等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8629.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8654.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
這些都希望可以納入這個扣除等等他們也激烈的在討論中而且財務部部長也說他要拿回去研擬甚至我們在內政委員會也有提到說這個社宅是不是優先給有生小孩我覺得這個是多管齊下多管齊下我們所以我們不針對單一個法案去討論他到底有沒有去紓緩少子化的問題我們是多管齊下在做謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8660.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8678.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
剛才部長有提到現在其實都有育兒津貼我們那個部分的確是透過其他相關的法律當然是現在透過有辦法來呈現的但是今天我們之所以注意到這個問題還包括的是賴清德總統他在前幾天的時候特別講到的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8679.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8693.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
一到零到六歲之後呢是這個兩千五就五千元嘛那零到六歲是五千元那之後呢六到十八歲的這個五千元當中一半要進入到的是TESA的兒少帳戶那他 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8694.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8698.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
今天主要是討論到是這個帳戶當中難道不用入法嗎因為你每個人2500元的話呢他今天講到是受益應該有300萬人300萬人的那從他6歲之後是到18歲300萬人當陸續的那每個月是這樣的錢然後到了18歲這其實都有相關的要需要管理啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8719.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8747.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
在管理之后还要监理啊那我今天最重要就是问的是部长您这边的部长是不是对TESA的儿少账户怎么样的去处理那这边怎么样去对应起来那不要入法吗而且另外第二个问题是过去在107年部长也说的没错就已经有儿童及少年未来教育与发展账户条例就有一个条例但是它最重要是针对的是弱势的对不对低收入的弱势这一部分那 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8748.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8766.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
現在的這個如果戴總統的TESA的兒少的TESA的這個兒少帳戶的話呢那這一部分他過去都有一個針對弱勢的就已經有個帳戶條例了那現在同樣在屬於TESA帳戶難道不需要條例嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8768.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8787.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
你不用的話 你怎麼 你這個 你說清楚 大家全部公正起來大家都通過實況轉播都可以知道說 你有這部分 好 就是說那不用監理嗎 不用管理嗎這個絕對是不可能的那你可以用你過去打你棒出的弱勢的這個帳戶的部分的一個管理的部分 一個條例耶好 那請你來說清楚看看 謝謝好 六個鄉委員 李昆城 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8798.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8802.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
其實我是這樣覺得我昨天總質詢禮拜二總質詢的時候也講過其實這個就是在野黨提的時候好像是什麼都有問題都排擠了健保 排擠了長照當初我在當主席的時候我想旁邊的專委我們都一直在討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8814.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8817.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
那個時候都講說財務的問題包含主基總署也說錢不夠還要舉債有人說這個是叫做這個透支財政沒有財政紀律但是我想賴總統一提大家就拐了一個彎 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8829.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8837.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
那我覺得這件事情就是轉過來講其實這是兩件事剛剛有說到是育兒津貼津貼其實我們非常的認同而且我們在野黨也提了加碼就是對其補助津貼的部分是一定要加碼所以現在賴總統提到是一萬我們認為津貼應該是一萬五至兩萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8850.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8874.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
所以這個部分我們這是另外一件事我們可以另外再討論但是賴總統裡面也有提到這個2500要放到投資帳戶裡面所以這是今天才要討論的事情這個所謂的投資帳戶那我想郭公文委員也有提跟在野黨版本其實都有類似的概念其實這個部分我想很重要的一個原因就是要讓這個投資孩子的未來讓他們在這個整個成長的過程中除了育兒津貼 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8881.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8909.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
直接解燃眉之急讓這些零到六歲的家長可以好好的帶小孩之外我們也很重要的就是這個條例有個很重要精神讓財務理財的觀念放到小孩子的人生當中其實這才是真正可以讓他們緩解所謂的貧富差距我想郭文委員一直提到的存量流量跟配置這是非常好的概念這是巴菲特常常在講的概念 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
8910.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
8936.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
所以這個存量流量是啊 沒錯啊沒錯啊 我很認同啊所以我想這個就是這個郭國文委員跟我們在野黨有共同的共識所以這是兩件事我覺得不要混為一談我們在野黨也很負責任的希望月二津貼可以對其加碼補助謝謝是你對我有共識好 謝謝六位小朋友現在請到坤城委員好 謝謝主席那這個其實我剛才提到的說 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
8937.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
8961.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
這個育兒津貼是剛剛部長有提到是101年就開始那101年那時候是誰執政國民黨執政應該是吧所以那時候就有育兒津貼了然後那時候也是用要點來做處理這是第一個那時候就延續下來那第二個就是說因為我剛有提到就是說這個所謂的投資帳戶就是說6歲到18歲有2500塊的投資帳戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
8966.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
8990.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
那我剛才我特別問了一下部長那因為部長這剛才是用點頭啦那或許等一下你再說清楚就是說因為我剛才是講說是不是像勞退薪資一樣我用一個虛擬的賬戶那我們每個月就是有2500塊進去那我們對弱勢的我們在這個多譬如說是1比1的這個在補助嘛那所以呢既然現在勞退薪資已經可以這樣子做了 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
8991.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9004.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
那是不是我們未來這個額紹的這個投資的這一個帳戶是不是也按照這一個老退心智這個虛擬帳戶來做處理啦那我想是不是等一下請部長再做的清楚的說明謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9006.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9032.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
好請郭國文委員謝謝主席我想那個延續昆城的那說法剛剛我就教育部長部長有沒有一個明確的答覆就是說你放在一個大水池裡頭的這個部分的話你以後能透過所謂的代鈔的模式代鈔模式其實就是可以獲得資本利得問題是資本利得是歸帳戶所有人然後這個帳戶總體的帳戶所有人是政府他不是個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9034.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9060.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
這樣子你只是減少你後面的提撥義務而已並不能累積到個人的身上也就是說他沒有一個真正投資或流量的概念的一個累積那他的所謂的一桶金其實非常有限你知道嗎你是立法一種存量的概念不是真正流量的概念如果真的是用這個2500的概念的話我自己提的案子是2400經過這個年化率12年之後他可以累積到第一桶金是144.4萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9062.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9082.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
這是第一個概念你要去跟社會說服的是最後最後結果到底是多少這才會真正一統計嘛否則你就沒有所謂的未來性的可言另外一個部分呢有相對提撥你其實政府其實有相對提撥不是我們在相對提撥不是家長在相對提撥你有2500對2500嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9084.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9099.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
那我這2500如果說是不是有一個自選的機制我不要用成長津貼我可以直接投入到個人帳戶那這樣子投資帳戶裡頭這樣子累積速度不是更快嗎也就是說呢這意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9101.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9126.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
144乘以2叫288那288以後你再倒推回來來計算的話我剛剛算過一個月你等於是給他一個小孩子兩萬然後他如果累積起來的話到288你想一想到18歲拿到288那不少不論他要留學或者他要創業人生充滿一些可能性就會創造出來家長會比較放心我以後的這個小孩我除了生養 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9129.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9148.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
未來的人生我們都把它想好了這個才是一個一連串的一個政策思維啦部長 否則的話你這會縮水政策的原也會不見沒有公司我們就保留我們等一下請問你有沒有要講一下請部長回應一下你有沒有要講一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9153.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9179.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
我知道等一下我們先宣告在前衛國務部長說明我們宣告國民黨黨團台灣民眾黨黨團第17條郭國文等18人第15條保留那前衛國務部長說明好跟各位說明那麼在我們目前的兒少教育發展的這個帳戶有條例那為什麼我們現在做這個成長今天不需要條例因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9180.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9209.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
在這個弱勢兒少的教育發展的這個帳戶他有自提款的部分他是可以讓這個弱勢家庭他去提自存進去然後政府呢再對撥進去所以他除了有固定的這個開戶金那另外還會有對撥他是一個Mutual的概念去做就是對弱勢家庭的照顧 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9210.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9224.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
那麼在未來這個成長津貼的部分呢他是以一半現金一半先預存在滿18歲的時候再提領所以換言之他還有2500的現金可以自行運用 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9225.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9246.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
那麼對於弱勢而燒來講他就可以把這個2500放到弱勢而燒的那一個發展帳戶那個是有條例去保障的那麼他對那個是有的但是在成長經驗這個部分呢我們沒有對自存款因為這個部分會擴大貧富差距所以我們沒有去做這個自存款 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9246.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9267.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
所以這邊呢純粹就是一個這個福利津貼的方式去發放所以它是一致性的所以它不需要特別再去立法那至於郭委員的這個建議呢我們都會納入在未來操作的時候我們去考量所以目前並沒有綁定STISA好 王一鳴委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9268.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9292.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
好 我們從上午討論到現在我覺得大家真的把很多事情混在一起談那我們今天討論的是這個台灣未來賬戶或者你說兒少未來賬戶都可以那這個講的就是我們對於兒少我們要投資然後我們也是用投資的概念來管理這所有的基金所以它未來的這個發展性 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9293.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9316.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
跟它的可獲益性這個是會超出你原來補助津貼的概念的所以它是完全不同的制度設計所以我們在講的是這件事情那剛剛討論的時候很多民進黨委員一下子就把津貼拿進來一下子又把救助的概念就放進來這個真的是兩件事到目前為止我覺得這個民進黨郭國文委員我要表達適度的肯定 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9317.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9331.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
您的發言呢真的是相對很清醒就是說你在討論的過程你的脈絡你的邏輯都很清醒那你講的東西我覺得我們的衛福部部長是完全不想理會而且也聽不懂的就是他 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9332.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9358.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
竟然把賬戶拿掉然後他就說這個會擴大貧富差距這個是你就是亂改一通把這整個兒少未來賬戶他所有的精神你那個跟著是改的叫四不像好不好你那個什麼都不是你的這個版本那就是改的叫四不像那這個就是你的就是一個拼裝版就是擠擠盲盲拿出來然後只是為了切割在野黨的版本在野黨講說0到12歲那你們就發明一個6到18歲就是說要有不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9362.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9389.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
我覺得不用為了這個不一樣事實上你們如果冷靜的思考國民黨跟民眾黨的版本跟郭國問委員的版本我們在立法的精神跟方向性上事實上是一致的這個符合這個未來賬戶的精神你提的那個我忘了怎麼提了你提的那個真的是拼裝版就是完全破壞掉原來的這個法案的精神第二個我要講 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9390.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9411.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
你剛剛已經提到了賴總統所提出來的這個0到18歲所有的經費高達將近2000億我就問各位這麼高的一筆預算在野黨沒有反對但是你給民眾的承諾你這件事情真的不需要入法然後穩定的實施嗎特別是你提到的6到18歲你就是有點要比照這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9415.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9431.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
兒少未來賬戶的概念但是又不像的這一塊你通通你說都不用透過立法那請問全國0到18歲的父母親要相信民進黨政府的一句話嗎是這樣子嗎這樣就可以做嗎那過程不需要透過立法院的監督有這麼的草率嗎連弱勢的兒少的這個賬戶都需要有一個條例了 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9436.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9454.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
你現在告訴大家說擴大到6到18歲的通通都不需要條例我們自己來就好了然後你的主張只是說因為他有自撥款不是那麼一回事第三個我要講今天賴總統願意加碼在少子化的議題我們都沒有反對但是那個過程 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9455.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9472.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
我覺得那個過程很重要他到底有沒有好好思考這個政策到底是怎麼產出的你們產出的時間有多長你剛剛講了一句話就替縣市政府很擔心他今天要開了一個支票又要地方政府買單了那個津貼是地方政府要自付的那你要拉那麼長0到18歲你都沒有先商量他們的財源有沒有問題那個很窮的縣市就是財政很困難的會不會撥不出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9480.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9485.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
這個配套有想好嗎然後急急忙忙就是想要對外宣告但是我感覺你們的配套是匆匆忙忙 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9488.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9511.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
那個賴總統要急急忙忙宣布你們是匆匆忙忙在後面就是趕快追趕人家一問就說那個修法那個我們再來研議要怎麼做我們再來商量就是太匆忙了我覺得像立法院委員提版本我們還有尋導還有開公聽會這個才是正辦法重大的法案絕對不是這樣子衝突的丟出來以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9512.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9515.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
好我們現在進入國民黨黨團台灣民眾黨黨團第18條郭國麟的18人第14條請為何不說明好 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9525.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9550.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
那這個18條跟第14條郭委員版本的14條呢主要都是在談這一個帳戶的運用投資的方式那當然這個看起來郭委員的版本是比較細緻比較這個精確那但是因為他這個涉及到主管機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9552.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9560.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
這不一樣它上面就是要有主管金融主管機關來定制因為前面的條文是保留的所以這個條文那麼可能也是需要保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9562.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9587.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
好 請郭委員好 謝謝主席我想首先感謝王一鳴委員對本席的肯定不過制度上設計的內容來說基本上我們真的需要細緻的地方也不是這個法案而已包括在野黨很多法案我都更加需要細緻化就如同我這個第14條為什麼要規範的這麼詳細呢其實它是真正在落實一個所謂的TISA的精神 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9588.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9612.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
然後就是你在即便你投資的時候你也有一定約束跟限制不要過度炒作的可能性也就是說呢你在自選的過程當中呢你也要避險所以我其實在創造一個避險的機制也就是說你在投資項目當中你不能有槓桿型的反向型的或風險高的或衍生性的類似這種金融商品都應該予以排除 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9613.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9639.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
然後他會有一個委員會去設定一個追求整體市場管放型指數這樣子的年化率才能符合大的一個走勢的年化率這樣的長期持有才會有一個累積的一個作用那如果說相對保守的一個家長的話他可以透過代鈔的機制的一個選擇也就是說他可自選也可以代鈔但是前提是有避險的一個機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9640.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9660.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
那這並且其實是透過委員會來篩選所謂的投資標的所以這樣的方式的情況底下才能相對確保這一個真正在18歲成年之後的這些以後的這些年輕人可以一個屬於人生的地桶金 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9661.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9685.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
那我是覺得即便呢如果政府部門我們現在衛福部沒有提出版本的想像的話你如果依照目前為止在既有的制度上要做延伸要做調整要做設計的話一定要有一個說服力的一個最後的final的結果也就是說到底呢經過你這個制度的調整之後他在18歲之後他可以領回多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9686.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9708.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
他在18歲之後可以投資他未來人生的哪一個部分到底是教育或者是創業或者是結婚或者是什麼樣的面向的選擇之後他會有所依據而不是眼前的五千元除以二配置在兩千五兩千五的這種方式我覺得最終的那個結果才會有比較說服力這政策的誘因也會比較強好 劉思明委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9711.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9734.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
好 謝謝主席剛才在石部長的說明當中也跟我們講到了區分出來五千塊錢當中如果在六到十八歲的時候是有兩千五百元是津貼那另外的兩千五百元的部分就是TISA 兒少帳戶他已經有機會講到說這邊就是要賄賂法沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9738.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9759.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
好那就是一個有一個帳戶嘛對不對那如果你沒有這樣的一個情形就是你運他就算你說的大水庫可是這一部分郭國文委員就包括是在野黨也提出來了這裡面的版本就說就是只要是有再存到一個大水庫但是不可行你沒有辦法去讓每一個帳戶的實際上面要 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9761.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9780.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
讓這個立法目的上面要對的是能夠成長的就是要能夠每個人就是小孩子他到18歲的被授意的這個對象沒辦法去領導個人授意而是真正這個帳戶裡面所影響到的是政府的部分所以請部長您真的是要了解到 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9781.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
9808.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
財務的這部分如果可以更清楚的話就是跟財政部的或是金管會的了解之後去提出來因為郭國維你看他剛才其實已經講了苦口婆心講了這麼多之後他現在我不曉得他為什麼離席但是要清楚的是這個慶祝最重要的是要知道你贏一個出來的政府出了兩千五百萬兩千五百元然後給了六到十八歲他的目標要種清楚還是真的是讓錢可以讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
9809.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
9835.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
我們的小孩子青少年到18歲的時候可以領到如果那個效果目的沒有弄清楚你就說一般這麼多的錢然後結果後來還是領到的話還是由政府去受益因為就是一個大水庫去由政府受益那怎麼讓他去領到這個部分呢我請部長您真的是要從內部裡面的橫向的跨部會的聯繫當中要清楚那當然等一下我們我就是這樣子請教要了解這個財務規劃部分做好就對了好 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
9836.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
9845.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
好那我們本條也是沒有共識我們就保留我們宣告國民黨黨團台灣民眾黨黨團第18條郭國文等18人第14條保留現在進行國民黨黨團台灣民眾黨黨團第三章帳戶請領及結親郭國文等18人第三章帳戶請領及結親請問不說明嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
9866.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
9888.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
因為這個章名兩邊是相同啦所以這個沒有意見好 章案通過針對我們國民黨黨團台灣民眾黨團第三章及過國人典18人第三章也是保留嗎 保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
9891.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
9919.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
好那我們現在進行國民黨黨同台灣民眾黨黨同第19條郭國麟的18人第17條請衛部說明這個涉及到最後的秦嶺跟傑青那他的主管是地方主管機關那因為在前面的這個中央地方的責任呢那個任務呢並都保留了所以這一條應該也建議保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
9922.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
9928.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
好我們宣告國民黨黨團台灣民眾黨團第19條郭國麟等18人第17條保留我們現在進行國民黨黨團台灣民眾黨團第20條郭國麟等18人第18條請回覆說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
9943.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
9971.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
這個條文本身有涉及到這個開戶之後因為他是一個未滿18歲的開戶人因為死亡或者是有一些重大疾病的時候那麼則由他的法定代理人跟最近親屬因為這也是一樣他後面還有跟前面的一些制度的設計有一些關聯性所以建議還是保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
9973.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10002.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
好那就保留我們宣告國民黨黨團台灣民眾黨團第20條郭國文18人第18條保留我們現在進行國民黨黨團台灣民眾黨黨團第21條郭國文18人第19條請衛部說明這個也是一樣這個都牽涉到那個結清這個整個制度設計到底是中央主管機關還是地方主管機關這個也建議保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10007.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10009.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
也建議保留這個也是整個還有自存款跟企業贊助款這兩邊不一樣那我們就保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10032.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10055.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
我們現在進入國民黨黨團 台灣民眾黨團第23條郭國文的18人第21條請會不會說明這個也是整個制度設計的最終啦所以也建議保留好本條保留我們現在進入國民黨黨團 台灣民眾黨黨團第4章負責郭國文的18人第4章負責請會不會說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10062.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10089.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
這個也是有關於使用之後還有那個相關的這個財產處理一些相關問題還有這個程序啊所以這跟前面也有關聯性所以建議保留好本章保留那就一併宣告嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10092.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10097.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
一併宣告國民黨黨團 台灣民眾黨黨團 郭文哲18人第四章保留第24條 第25條 第26條 第27條 第28條郭文哲18人第22條 第23條 第24條 第26條 第25條 第27條 第28條保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10129.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10144.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
這以下決議臺灣未來戰後特別條例等兩案願以審查完略並按凝聚審查報告提報院會討論院會討論本案時有如召委現已補充說明請問本案是否交由黨團協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10159.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10176.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
本法案條文中引言調次及法制用語調整授權議事人員整理相關立法書明授權行政單位提供本次聯席會議議事錄授權主席核定後確定有無異議無異議通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10178.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10180.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
本次會議到此結束現在上會 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10214.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10224.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
我喊一下好了 先看中間先看中間然後看右邊右邊那台然後看左手邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10238.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10239.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
好 OK好 謝謝謝謝 |