| IVOD_ID |
17465 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17465 |
| 日期 |
2026-05-25 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-36-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
15 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2026-05-25T08:37:20+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-05-25T11:24:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
02:46:40 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8d241381c4f8c7fcb28ae05505236aa71bd9da694aa5ee5a601341028818003daec8a137325252d85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-05-25T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：繼續審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於監察院主管（不含審計部及所屬）收支部分。
【5月25日、27日及28日三天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:37:20 - 11:24:00 |
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報告委員會初席委員五人以足法定人數請主席宣布開會各位委員還有監察院的長官們大家早安好我們就現在進行開會那首先先進行報告事項請宣讀上次的會議議事錄因為上次的會議議事錄就是累積三天所以會念大概七分鐘左右的時間所以還請大家稍安勿躁好那麼我們現在請開始宣讀 |
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立法院第十一屆第五會期司法及法治委員會第十四次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國一百一十五年五月十八日星期一上午九十二分至十一時五十一分五月二十日星期三上午九十四分至十時二十五分五月二十一日星期四上午九十至十一時七分下午二十至四十四十九分 |
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2229.435 |
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2258.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
地點本院紅樓302會議室主席委員林慶祺委員等12人列席委員鍾嘉斌委員等8人列席官員5月18日司法院秘書長高金之等人5月20日行政院人事行政總處政務副人事長張秋元等人5月21日總統府秘書長潘孟安等人主席莊交集委員瑞雄5月18日報告時項宣讀上次會議議事錄決定確定討論事項繼續審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於司法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
2258.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
2278.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
及所屬主管收支部分及司法院含送財團法人法律輔助基金會一百一十五年度預算書案決議一一百一十五年度中央政府總預算案關於司法院及所屬主管收支部分稅務部分第二款第二三項至第二十八項均無列數第二十九項至第五十五項均照列第三款 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
2278.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
2306.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
第十四項至第五十項均照列第四款第二十四項至第六十一項均照列第七款第二十四項至第六十項均照列第六十一項無列書隨處部分第四款第一項簡列媒體政策及業務詢討費兩百萬元整科目自行調整業務費一千五百萬元科目自行調整第一幕一般行政二百萬元科目自行調整以上共計簡列一千九百萬元其餘均照列改列為四十億六千四百五十九萬七千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
2306.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
2323.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
提案私案保留送院會處理通過決議38項第二項至第7項均照列第8項照列通過決議1項第9項照列第10項照列通過決議1項第11項至第14項均照列第15項照列通過決議1項第16項照列第17項照列通過決議2項第18項照列通過決議1項第19項照列通過決議1項第20項照列通過決議1項第21項照列通過決議1項第22項照列通過決議1項 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
2335.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
2359.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
第23項及第24項均照列第25項照列 通過決議一項第26項照列 第27項照列 通過決議一項第28項照列 第29項照列 通過決議一項第30項照列 通過決議一項第31項照列 通過決議一項第32項照列 通過決議一項第33項至第38項均照列中華民國115年度中央政府總預算案關於司法院及所屬主管收支部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
2360.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2383.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
審查完畢提報院會院會討論前須交由黨團協商院會討論時由莊召及委員略從出席說明而財團法人法律輔助基金會一百一十五年度預算書案業務計劃應依據業務收支轉投資固定資產投資及資金運營等項之審查結果隨同調整收支預算總收入照列總支出簡列業務成本與費用向下業務成本中用人 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2383.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2397.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
成本500万元其余均照列改列为16亿8320万8千元本期剩余增列500万元改列为500万元结缴公库金额及转投资计划均无列数固定资产投资及国库增拨基金额均照列 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2398.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2423.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
通過決議二項本案審查完略擬拒審查報告提請院會公決院會討論前不須再由黨團結賬院會討論時由莊召集委員瑞雄出席說明5月20日討論四項積聚審查115年度中央政府總算案關於行政院人事緊正總署及所屬主管收支部分及附屬單位預算非營業部分關於行政院人事緊正總署主管中央公教人員疾難救助基金收支部分決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2424.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2440.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
一百一十五年度專政部總預算案關於行政院任期金的總數及所屬主管收支部分稅務部分第二款第七項及第八項均無劣數第四款第八項及第九項均照列第七款第八項及第九項均照列稅出部分第二款第三項簡列業務費一百萬元科目自行調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2441.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2460.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
第二幕人事行政制政策規劃執行及發展五十萬元科目自行調整第二幕人事行政制政策規劃執行及發展向下公務人員培訓與考用中業務費至教育訓練費五十萬元以上公積減列二百萬元其餘均照列改列為二十三億八千九百七十一萬五千元本案本項提案三案保留送院會處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2461.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2476.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
通過決議二十六項第四項交列通過決議三項中華民國一百一十五年度中央政府總預算案關於行政院能事情政總署及所屬主管收支部分審查完畢提報院會院會討論前須交由黨團協商院會討論時由中央交集委員日總出席說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2477.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2500.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
中央公教人員集散救助基金收支部分基金運用計畫因依據收支預出撥補等項目的審查結果隨同調整總收入總支出本期剩餘均照列本案審查完畢提報院會討論前需交由黨團協商院會討論時由莊召集委任月熊出席說明5月21日討論事項審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於總統府主管收支部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2500.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2516.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
本日會議由委員、審發會等八人提出質詢委員蔡啟昌提出書面質詢決議一,報告及詢問答完畢二,115年度中央政府總預算案關於總統府主管不含中央研究院收支部分稅務部分第二款第一項及第三項均無劣數 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2517.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2533.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
第三款第一項及第二項均照列第三項照列通過決議一項第四款第一項至第四項均照列第七款第一項至第四項均照列最初部分第一項第一款第一項檢列業務費向下業教育訓練費50萬元水電費100萬元通訊費10萬元約用人員酬金10萬元一般事務費200萬元房屋建築養護費200萬元車輛及辦公器具養護費10萬元短程車資10萬元第四目研究發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2543.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2566.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
第一節國家發展研究及諮詢向下國政規劃與諮詢二十萬元第五幕新聞發布五十萬元攻擊檢列六百六十萬元其餘均照列改列為十一億五千七百二十一萬一千元提案五萬保留送院會處理通過決議實項第二項檢列業務費向下國內旅費四十萬元其餘均照列改列為二億四千六百二十三萬一千元提案六萬保留送院會處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2566.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2594.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
送院會處理通過決議四項第三項照列通過決議八項第四項照列通過決議六項中華民國一百一十五年度中央政府總議宣案關於總統府主管不管中央研究院收支部分審查玩具提報院會院會討論前須交由黨團協商院會討論時由中央召集委員熱衷出席說明此案本次會議通過自決議依例文字授權主席及議事人員整理四委員執行時要求提供相關資料或以書面答覆者請相關經安尽速送交個別委員基本會宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2598.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2620.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
好 謝謝 那麼先請問各位就上次的會議議事錄有沒有錯誤或遺漏沒有 沒有的話我們就議事錄確定那接著我先介紹今天到場的委員有林沛翔委員 然後陳昭芝委員 然後沈發慧委員然後今天應邀列席的官員主要是監察院的王士卓秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2621.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2634.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
王貞華副秘書長好那其餘的官員我就不再逐一的介紹然後請蔡衛銘單並列入公報記錄那本次的會議呢為三天一次會首日的議程我們排定討論事項繼續審查115年度中央政府總預算案 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2639.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2654.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
关于监察院主管不含审计部及所属的收支部分那由于会议的第三天的议程排定审查115年度立法院的预算案那么在此特别提醒那本次审查预算相关提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2655.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2671.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
会在5月26号中午12点截止收件于时就不予受理那请机关于之后会议处理提案之前先可以利用时间与提案的委员进行沟通协调那以利后续预算案审查 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2674.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2691.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
本日的議程討論事項前經本會第九次全體委員會議報告及詢答完畢我們的決議就是另定期繼續審查預算提案於5月6號下午2點截止修建所以在今天我們就繼續審查監察院的預算案 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2692.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2708.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那么我们就现在先进行讨论事项先请议事人员一并宣读本日的讨论事项个案的全部预算数以及所收的委员预算提案宣读时间大约两分钟先请宣读 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2709.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2721.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
115年度監察院稅入部分第二款罰款及賠償收入第61項監察院2990萬元第4款財產收入第68項監察院115萬4千元第7款其他收入第67項監察院25萬6千元稅出部分第6款監察院主管第一項監察院是1億5418萬4千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2736.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2761.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
繼續宣讀提案會證表部分監察院收入收支部分稅入第二款罰款及賠償收入第61項監察院為第一案稅入主決議部分為第二案稅出第六款第一項監察院業務費為第三案至第八案第一幕一般行政為第九案至第十六案第二幕議事業務為第十七案及第十八案第三幕調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2763.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2764.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
以上提案及修正內容請委員參閱書面資料 宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2794.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2810.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
好 報告各位委員那麼我們的預算數及所有提案均已宣讀完畢那麼我們進行討論之前就先說明預算案的處理方式那也依照委員會處理預算提案的慣例我們稅務部分就依照來源別以相為單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2811.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2816.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
稅出部分我們就以機關別以目為單位分別依序來進行審查各單位預算當中與處理的委員所提的真、三提案之後其餘未涉及的預算部分均與照列有關正式別稅出的預算就隨同機關別審查結果來調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2831.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2846.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
那預證提案經由整理除了將所有委員提案裝地成提案本並且在編列序號之後製作成會診表方便委員審查時參考那接下來就進行審查那請各位可以一併參閱提案本及會診表來進行討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2851.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2874.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
那麼另外也請機關注意那稍後經討論決議修正的預算提案經機關將修正內容經提案委員簽名同意之後就送交主席台並且列入公報記錄但審查預算過程當中如果有列行幕僚於首次答覆委員問題發言時那麼就請先自行介紹自己的職稱姓名以例公報人員記錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2877.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2900.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
好那麼我們就現在進行討論事項繼續審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於監察院主管不含審計部及所屬的收支部分那麼我們就先處理稅入的部分請先參閱提案本集會診表那稅入的部分的提案總共有提案第一案及第二案共兩案 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2902.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2913.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
那麼第一案我們已經改成主已經溝通完畢改成主決議然後已經提有書面報告了好那第二案的好 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2917.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2932.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
因為第一案的部分已經改組決議那改成書面報告所以我就先宣讀一下那個組決議就是稅入然後第二款罰款及賠償收入第61項監察院共兩案提案案號第一案那繼續處理好那我們就繼續處理第二款第61項監察院的組決議提案的案號是第二案 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2947.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2975.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
那第二案是張雅玲委員 因為這裡的話也是改成主決議第二案有沒有意見監察院沒有意見 那我們就照案通過主決議就是提案案號第二案 我們就照案通過第二案稅入第二款第61項監察院就處理完畢那接著好 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2976.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2995.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
那麼接下來我們可能接下來會處理稅出我們先講一下我們這次的稅出提案的處理原則那稅入處理完畢就繼續處理稅出提案我們就先做說明第一個就是處理時就依照慣例以目為單位逐目進行處理原則上就按照會診表所排列的提案順序 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2996.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
3018.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
先由各提案委員先就該目中的提案內容進行說明提案委員於該目如果有兩個以上提案時則請一併說明然後我們再由機關代表予以答覆之後呢就針對整目一起處理做成決議那委員如果有跨各目的提案則先行處理處理之後我們再以各目的順序進行處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
3021.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
3048.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
好 那麼我現在就來進行說出的部分請先參閱提案本集會診表說出部分的提案由於所說的委員提案當中的第三案到第八案第六款第一項是跨個目的提案所以我們就先進行討論那麼先由提案委員就提案內容進行說明那提案委員與本項如果有兩個以上提案的時候可以就是一併說明然後再由機關代表予以答覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
3050.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
3078.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
好那我們就開始那首先就是第三案到第七案這個就是分別有徐宇貞委員翁曉琳委員等等所提案那麼因為第三案到第七案是都有跟已經跟監察院這裡有溝通過那就是請大家看看有沒有意見或是提案委員有沒有再說明的 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
3083.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
3108.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
那如果沒有的話那麼我們就就照第三案到第七案就是按照溝通的結果通過這樣比較減省時間那如果說有在場的官員有需要發言的話那就還是可以提有需要再提嗎唯一的部分要請大院簡列金額請允許科目自行調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
3112.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
3138.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
這個當時已經溝通過了如果說沒有說可以科目字型調整的話可能就不依科目字型調整對因為這個是我們在當時的時候書面上面沒有寫的話那就是還是就沒有寫科目字條的話那就不可以科目字條好那麼接下來是第八 請 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
3141.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
3154.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
這個科目自行調整的部分,是不是能夠請監察員說明一下,你們現在如果科目不讓你們科目自行調整的話你們的影響,因為那時候可能你們在跟委員溝通的時候沒有溝通到這一點你們是不是說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
3159.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
3168.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
監察院報告,那因為這個三到五的部分全部都是一般行政,分別都有簡列,都是簡列一百萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
3172.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
3193.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
那總共大概檢列應該是4個,檢列100萬還有檢列200萬那如果沒有科目自行調整,然後就都合併的話就會變成100萬加100萬,再加100萬,再加100萬,再加100萬,再加200萬這樣子是不是能夠允許監察院科目自行調整,然後能夠合併處理就是能夠併案處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
3207.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
3223.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
因為這些部分因為就是從第四案到第七案這裡的話總共也是減列五百萬所以應該是跟科目調整沒有關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
3226.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
3242.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
對跟科目調整是沒有關係而且更何況那個時候如果說跟委員們都已經討論過那委員們可能不認為說可以同意讓科目自行調整的話那麼是希望就能夠維持跟委員的溝通的提案的就照案通過是 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
3244.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
3269.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
麻煩請王副秘書長我們先請王副秘書長先說明好了不好意思就是說第四案跟第五案是不同的委員一位是溫委員 趙偉另外一位是徐宇貞委員同時都要刪減那是不是能夠合併處理否則的話就是四會加五就是兩案就是一個400 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
3271.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
3275.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
對 合併會刪到超過一定的數字就會 通訊費會刪到兩百那這個說明一下那個監察院的通訊費的部分因為我們會處理非常大量的人民陳情案件那人民陳情案件每一件都是依法應該要回覆的然後另外有關於 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
3298.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
3307.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
比如說是溯院或者是相關的行政訴訟案件必須一定要用雙掛號那這些就是會影響到我們依法要用怎樣的掛號的等級可是會受到比較嚴重的影響然後另外它還有包括手機等等的或者是網路等等都在裡面那這個通訊費如果3到100加100對監察院的影響會非常大 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3326.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3343.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
那目前我們也很多案子都在調查中所以都要跟當事人都要有一些信件上面的溝通真的尤其是人民陳情案件我們現在一年大概是快要超過一萬六千多件這樣子對好來請省委員我想這個像第四案跟第五案他這個當初在溝通的時候應該是 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3354.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3368.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
在溝通委員的爭議,像他去找翁昭偉翁昭偉應該意思不是說我砍一百萬,那其他人在砍多少這應該是,這一百萬就是因為兩個不同委員提案同一條遇上科目,所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3369.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3397.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
監察院跟我們委員的這個協調的爭議應該是說我們整個業務費的這個部分就一百萬應該是這個意思那現在你如果不讓他科目自行調整你現在變成我這個委員那我今天如果五個委員提案我都說好可以刪一百萬就可以刪一百萬結果這樣刪下來就變五百萬了這樣不合理了所以我是覺得說是不是這部分我們讓他科目自行調整可以這個應該是同一個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3398.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3412.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
主席抱歉啊 就是我想說因為我們其他的我們在審查其他的委員會的時候我們也都會一起合併一起來處理一個樹木啦所以我想說是不是這個地方我們也就用過去我們處理的方式一起把它合併一起來處理一個大家都可以接受的樹木這樣子謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3414.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3422.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
因為這個案子是由本席跟徐宇珍委員兩個一起就是個別提案那也個別有3減100萬我本來是提案3減400萬後來經過監察院的說明就是說同意就是3減100萬那麼也是看到你們監察院過去這些年的這個通訊費的執行率其實也不高就大概差不多六七成左右那麼在這樣的一個情況之下那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3441.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3470.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
考慮到就新茶運的業務我是可以就是免免免與同意啦就兩個科目就是合併處理那麼但是是不是還是可以就是撿個總共加起來撿個150萬然後讓你們能夠尊潔使用嘛而且你們之前主要是前幾年其實大家執行率也就六成多五成多對所以呢並不是說是會全部都用掉那你們這次編了700多萬其實也是偏高的 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3474.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3490.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
謝謝趙偉那我想還是要再說明一下今年我們的使用這個通訊費相對會增加很多因為今年有個九合一的大選所以大選的時候我們的比率應該會比以前加更多那很多的所謂的執行率的數字有時候是因為比如說 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3491.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3516.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
像去年我們真的是因為整個預算被砍了所以我們的執行當然少後來因為有追加所以感覺上我們執行數少是因為後來又追加之後但是追加的部分也比例也很少所以跟總預算數來比真的是當然就是有執行率的問題否則的話我們拿到多少錢去年應該是執行率應該是將近是九成五以上這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3517.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3540.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
好OK那這樣本席也不堅持那就是兩岸可以合併就是通訊費的部分就是總共減列一百萬但是就是還指定科目啦沒有什麼科目自行調整然後不得留用雲芝然後減列一百萬那徐宇貞委員因為他不在不過就是我的部分我想我可以跟徐宇貞委員一起合併好那接下來呢所以第六案就是可以嗎然後第六案的話是國內旅費跟第七案 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3547.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3571.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
第六案已經溝通完畢第七案已經也溝通完畢了嘛好六七案那剩下就是接下來是第八案好第八案第八案的部分呢是涉及國外旅費的部分那這個案子是由本席所提案那在本席提案的部分主要是考慮到就是在這次監察院所提的國外旅費的規劃裡面呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3572.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3588.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
只有职员出国考察的去新加坡的这一题是比较清楚的考察AI政府部门的那么其他的监察院他监察委员的出国考察编列了265万2000元还有国外人权机构团体考察交流编列300万 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3589.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3591.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
專案性訪查調查兵的135萬 合計725萬其實都只是很概括的表述是要去亞太 歐美 紐澳等等地區去考察然後也沒有一個清楚的出國的地點以及出國的計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3605.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3634.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
所以我們沒有辦法知道說他的出國的必要性因此在此簡列預算400萬同時呢我們也凍結首長跟副首長因為政務需要出國訪問的預算是80萬那我知道這一屆的監察委員即將在7月31號就卸任所以在新任的政務首長副首長新的這個首長院長副院長沒有產生之前呢我想這筆預算就整個先凍結那這是本席所提出的 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3636.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3636.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
請遵循監察院說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3643.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3667.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
謝謝主席 就是這邊要是先建議就是第七案跟第八案因為都涉及國外旅費是不是可以先合併一起來看那至於有關出國旅費的部分那就人權會的部分呢就是人權會這邊最主要就是今年會出席的就是亞太區域國家安全機構論壇那目前現在已經確定地點是在約旦那其他的部分就由綜合業務處這邊說明 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3670.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3696.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
綜合Youtube這邊跟主席說明報告那有關於管理費為什麼沒有細節寫在預算書上面是因為時間上的差異在預算書是在大概七八月的時候去年七八月的時候確定那時候還不會確定說預計要去參加的會議的國家那像現在已經是確定今年我們以中華民國監察院這樣的一個會籍要去參加的會議是在十月的下旬在阿根廷有 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3697.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3723.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
以比例每週監察10年會這樣的一個相關會議那以上的報告不過就正如我們說的那個其實這個監察委員要接下來還看是不是能夠順利如期的被停營然後通過所以呢有些業務費的這個國外考察的經費是不需要就是說現在今年便利那麼高這是本期的看法那請陳芳瑞委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3725.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3740.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
謝謝召委我想這個應該你說這個監委改選之後的狀況怎麼樣拿來作為理由凍結我覺得這個是這個在法理上面是說不通的你也不能說因為明年縣市長選舉 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3742.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3759.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
還沒有選所以我們就預算全部凍結等到現場選舉新的現場產生之後我們再請動之我們不能先預設說我們預算的編列都是要預設這個機關是是按照日常常理 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3760.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3788.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
來進行的所以我覺得說其他我們針對他的這個每一個計畫他的計畫的內容我們如果有意見我們可以進行表達但是這個你說因為這個監委7月要改選那不曉得會不會順利所以我們先就把預算剪裂了或者是凍結我覺得這個法理上應該是不能用這種理由那再來這個出國考試我想這個剛才建安院有把 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3789.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3814.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
這個尤其是人權委員會有把這個我們這個出國的計畫詳細的跟大家說明那這些計畫我想就是說除非我們委員會覺得說那這計畫這個會不要去參加了或是怎麼樣不然這樣子的剪裂跟凍結他的預算我覺得這個是不是能夠大家再討論一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3817.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3839.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
好 那我也補充一下就是說因為其實這個是去年就已經編列的預算啦其實我們本來立法院就應該在去年來審查完了啦那而且因為他們其實是我看翁小玲委員其實是很在意就是說到底這明確性是什麼 內容是什麼嘛那我想剛剛其實國家人權委員會也說明得非常清楚所以我想說這部分我們是不是就可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3840.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3857.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
就是 如果這個 翁委員不堅持的話是不是就可以動 看是動結數少一點還是怎麼樣也可以聽聽看監裁會員的意見啦好 我們是 謝謝召委請 我們來說明一下我們對於七八兩案是不是有 妄同考慮的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3859.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3863.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
就是監察院呢因為國外旅費其實監察院一項編列都是非常的尊潔的然後呢因為監察院有非常多的參加國際組織相關的一個績效然後這也非常難得適用中華民國 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3875.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3896.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
檢察院這樣子的名義而且呢尤其是FEAR我們其實在去年才變成正式的會員所以今年十月下旬要去阿根廷的部分懇請那個立法院能夠支持然後呢另外就是國家人權委員會其實雖然我們只是觀察員可是每年或者是兩年都 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3897.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3919.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
都必須要去參加ABF的相關的會議這是一個難能可貴中華民國能夠跟國際有一些溝通的一個管道然後另外呢就是是不是懇請立法院能夠把第七案跟第八案能夠合併處理那就是併到召委的案件一併處理謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3925.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3930.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
是所以您的意思是講說第七案第八案我們就是合併起來就是減列400萬然後凍結80萬是吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3936.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3941.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
你要合併到我的案子的話就是減列400萬然後凍結80萬因為事實上這個監察委員監察院這次編的這個出國考察就像我說的我基本上蠻鼓勵就職員們出國去考察那專案性訪財調查這是有必要性以及監察委員他現在編了200多萬的出國計畫但是事實上就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3958.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3970.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
如同我說的就監察委員其實即將出缺那之後這個費用那麼如果說監察委員沒有補上的話那本來就也不能使用所以一種情況就是說我可以少檢列但是就是多凍結然後這個監察委員的這個考察265萬就是並同 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3976.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3997.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
院長副首長的政務出國費用這邊一併凍結那麼至於國外人權機構考察的部分呢我本期是認為說其實現在政府的舉債過高然後經費支出過大所以國外人權團體考察的部分呢也可以遵截使用啦對所以就一併在這個項目你們本來是編了是1296萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
4002.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
4011.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
如果說可以同意的話就是節內兩百萬但是凍結就是二六五加上八十萬就是三百四十萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
4014.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
4037.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
是 還請秘書長說明是這樣子 凍結的部分 因為今年只剩半年那在解凍的過程 可能時間是非常久可能會來不及我們很多的預算的應用上面的時程會趕不上所以是不是可以免凍結 這是第一點第二點就是說 這七八兩案一案是徐宇甄委員減列200然後昭緯這邊減列400 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
4041.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
4054.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
那是不是可以再用徐貞委員或是說召委這邊也要拜託是不是再給我們多一些的預算讓我們能夠在年底尤其代表我們國家出來出席相關的會議上面能夠比較順利 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
4057.823 |
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4081.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
是這樣的本席認為就是說是這個簡列是200萬徐宇臻委員已經簡列200萬那凍結的部分的話就是監察委員的考察編列的這265萬就比照像是首長副首長的證物需要出國等到就是說真的有院長副院長監察委員上台就是能夠順利通過上任之後那麼我們再來解凍 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
4083.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
4087.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
對 因為就這一屆的監察委員來說 他們其實晚上7月31號也要卸任啦 也用不到了對 如果說同意的話 那我們到時候就來請監察院這裡再來做處理再來寫案子好 請沈委員我想這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
4103.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
4122.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
這個是不是如果說大家沒有辦法達成共識的話我們是不是七八案我們因為這個我們大部分的機關在在國外旅費的部分我們都是保留到這個其實第七案是已經溝通過了那現在是第八案的部分那第七案溝通過兩百跟這個第八案它是同一個預算項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
4124.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
4141.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
所以是不是如果保留的話我是建議如果是這樣的話那第八案就保留那就是先維持反正就是因為第七案已經夠通過了然後所以第七案就減列兩百萬嘛那第八案的話就保留好那就請宣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
4164.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
4180.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
好 那麼針對現在我們稅出第六款監察院主管第一項監察院業務費提案案號第三案到第八案 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
4180.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
4200.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
我們審查結果就是改為主決議的是第三案那麼第八案是保留送協商那麼業務費的通訊費的部分因為我們當時有合併兩案合併我們就減列100萬那麼除了以上個案外我們業務費就合併是減列300萬300萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
4206.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
4212.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
好 那麼接著我們就處理在第一幕的一般行政提案案號是第九案到第十六案好 那麼我們第九案第九案是本席提出提案的那麼這個案子因為已經有通過了就改簡列一百萬 然後取消凍結 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
4231.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
4247.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
那麼接下來是第十案是陳昭之委員的案子是不是可以請陳昭之委員先做提案說明 謝謝民眾黨說明民眾黨的立場跟過去長期的民進黨的主張 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
4248.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
4268.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
是一致的都是認為監察院已無功能需要廢除蔡總統在2016年競選的時候甚至把廢監察院當作他的政見但是等到他們執政以後在2016到18而且是完全執政的時候卻未能真正履行對人民的承諾廢除監察院 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
4269.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
4294.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
那反而在賴總統上任之後面對在野黨提案要廢除監察院民進黨的立委包括柯總召他2024年講了這樣的話他說藍白題廢考監是要遂行這個假限改爭奪權的目的這個真的是把天地都翻了一轉那如此的言論跟過去行為的舉止都在顯示民進黨口中的廢監察院是 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
4295.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4310.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
就是跳票就是騙人那我想另外再講一些比較務實的部分監察院目前實際在進行調查案件的是很辛苦的調查官那事實上監察委這一年真正下去調查案件才十幾個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4311.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4314.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
我在質詢的時候也有跟秘書長再做個確認這一屆的監察委員有十萬個陳情案件那十萬個陳情案件跟一位監委平均一年調查十幾案這是非常懸殊的比例調查官很辛苦但監察委員的工作這個成效非常的差也因此讓很多真正有需要有爭議的案件被擱置了很多年包括近日才處理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4337.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4355.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
處理放了十幾年才處理蔡學良的軍中命案他媽媽這個是欲哭無淚但是到現在他覺得才發現一線熟光所以我今天我們在本黨的立場除了一般行政署是讓監察院辛苦的公務員薪水一定要保留下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4357.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4380.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
我們是主張把業務費全數全數刪除 請大家重新思考廢除監察院 請民進黨 請執政黨重新思考它長期以來包括我從年輕 我跟著上來的主張叫做廢除監察院那現在變成覺得好用啦 不廢除啦 很好用啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4381.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4392.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
所以民進黨對於這樣的預算提案不願意支持的話那不好意思 那個本黨的意見是堅持要就是保留協商 這個是 就是謝謝好 這個民眾黨的政治立場這個我尊重那這個關於監察 考試院監察院他 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4407.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4422.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
要不要廢除這個議題我個人也支持也支持討論也支持這個這個我們整個憲法五權憲法的檢討這個都支持但是你用這個把整個業務費全部刪掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4423.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4449.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
這個業務費你現在監察院這個機關在就算7月沒有通過人事權監察院這個機關還是在公務人員還是在那邊上班這些一般行政費用大部分使用的都是這些行政人員在使用再來這是第一點第二點今年選舉年你有關財產申報有關這些候選人的政治獻金的業務這些通通是用這些一般行政費用在運行 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4451.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4464.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
那現在你說要把整個預算全部通通剪裂全部都刪除那再來我們的這些年底選舉的這些政治獻金的申報怎麼辦這些財產申報怎麼處理所以這個我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4473.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4481.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
這個大家還是要理性一碼歸一碼你要談憲政體制是憲政體制但是你要談這個這個業務預算是業務預算這個整個喇喇的一點來講我是覺得這樣子是不對的那這個這個部分我希望說我們能夠能夠大家就預算項目來談預算項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4501.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4526.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
主席好那我想這個監察院要不要存廢我覺得這可以來討論啦但是因為現在如果要真的要廢的話那應該先來處理組織法啦但是現在組織法都還在用這樣子的理由讓它完全沒有辦法運作我覺得這非常不合理那再來第二個第二件事情就是說我看到那個委員上面是寫說社會普遍認為監察院已喪失功能但我想要講幾個案例來看看讓民眾來評論說這監察院真的喪失功能嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4530.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4556.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
最近今年樂樂就是沸沸揚揚的台中少棒狼屍案這個松志斌教練在2026年5月的時候監察院做了完整的調查所以呢我們大家才發現教育局台中市教育局盧秀燕根本沒有處置那再來還有在新北的土城圍棋狼屍案糾正新北市政府讓這個涉案教師早有前科的應該要更有監控嘛那第三個 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4557.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4572.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
南投大安國小校長性侵案全票彈劾涉案的這個劉姓校長因為她是在任教34年性侵多名的女童那再來還有這不過是這兩年而已喔台灣戲曲學院性侵案 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4573.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4594.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
那我想大家可以來公平監察院真的毫無作為嗎監察院的監察委員他們不是AI不是說什麼資料丟進去就自己調查完他們都要一案一案的去了解我過去也曾經在民間的時候我也曾經參與過我了解他們在每一個調查案裡面要談多少的人 多少的團體這是非常耗費時間的 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4595.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4613.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
所以我認為我們今天就事論事啦還是因為像我自己也有在提案希望我們監察委員可以去調查安置機構這六七年來有非常多的這個安置機構的性侵案這都非常需要我們的監察委員來做一些系統性的調查所以今天如果我們去 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4615.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4627.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
就這樣大比三減的話我覺得對我們現在許多系統性結構性的意見會有很大的影響所以我希望就是說這件事情上面大家還是要理性務實啦 謝謝好 那請那個陳還是我們先請秘書長這裡先回應好不好謝謝趙偉 我們請賦名 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4641.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4663.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
這邊監察院說明就是剛剛招思委員講到其實是說就是大部分都是調查官在做的那我這裡說明一下就是其實調查權的執行一定是監察委員我們是相關的規定其實協查只是協助而且是在調查委員的指揮下才能夠完成相關的調查工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4664.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4675.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
所以其實調查權的行使是監察委員然後另外說明一下就是一直統計到4月底就是上個月底是大概調查案件有1581案可是每一個案件大概都會有1到3位的調查委員在參與個案的調查會因為案件的複雜程度會有不同人數的監察委員參與所以用簡單的數學說 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4693.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4707.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
每一個委員每一年只調查10.1案這個算法是非常有問題的那如果說真的計算起來每一年每一位委員一定是調查大概是25案左右一定超過23案左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4709.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4713.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
然後呢另外除了調查職權以外監察委員的職權是非常多元的他要收受人民書狀那因為收受人民書狀這一屆大概已經超過9萬件已經超過9萬件比前幾屆都還要多的然後另外呢他們要中央巡查要地方巡查 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4728.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4732.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
要審查糾正跟彈劾案件然後另外呢還要審議相關的政府中央政府總決算跟地方政府總決算等等的然後另外還有財產申報的案件或者是利沖或者是 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4744.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4749.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
政治陷阱的案件這些都是監察委員的職權範疇那這一屆呢又多了國家人權委員會所以有幾位大概每一年都有十位左右的監察委員要去專責處理國家人權的案件所以委員的職權是真的是非常的繁瑣跟多元那僅用調查案件的數量來呈現 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4771.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4781.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
這個對於這個說明起來是不夠不夠完整的以上補充再請陳委員稍微請我再補充一點剛才陳委員所說的這個監察院要不要廢的這個問題如果說我們過去所謂的廢院就是說把院廢 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4794.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4813.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
但是監察權挪成三權 類似像三權分立這樣子的一個概念可是如果說在預算上面 基本行政工作維持資訊管理的預算三到九千多萬也就是把整個的預算 幾乎業務進行的預算幾乎刪除的話那已經不是廢院的問題 那是一個廢權的問題 也就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4816.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4844.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
這個相關的權都無從來執行了那無從來執行可是這個權還沒有做任何修憲的任何的一個表述之前其實這個權的存在還是對於人民相關的明末還有等等相關的這個民隱或者說他們的陳情事實上很多都是在監察院在處理之中所以如果整個這樣子刪掉的話這個人民的這個對於他自己的這個陳情案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4845.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4855.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
等於是在監察院這邊監察權這邊就完全沒辦法來進行了那這個沒有辦法進行對人民的影響甚巨所以還是要請大院三思 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4858.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4879.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
再請那個陳委員因為剛剛陳委員您提到那個財產申報業務就是說你可能沒有注意到這個部分我們一毛未刪就是3607011200這個項目預算金額一毛未刪所以這部分就請大家在這個我們是保留下來因為監督這個該有這個生產申報這個是要做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4883.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4903.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
然後剛剛這個張委員也提到這個提到幾個案子他們有做的但是一個委員一年十幾案這個工作量比起我們立法委員真是沒有不堪相比啊這個辛苦的是在職所以我們在職的這個調查官我們這個對他們該有的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4906.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4923.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
薪資福利我們都完全沒有去動到這個部分然後這個年復一年這個承諾年復一年每年都這樣講然後呢是不是永久就變成五權分立呢這個是你們自己不要的東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4924.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4949.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
啊每年都講一遍 然後就說現在沒有去修憲啊我也沒看到你完全是有修憲的動作啊你就是一直在這樣做那你叫我們這個從小被你們洗腦 被你們帶領引導這個政治信念的人你叫我們何堪啊 我今天坐在這個地方是代表我們這個民眾黨團非常痛苦 一直在執行一直在執行民進黨的當年所有的承諾 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4950.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4969.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
所以今天這個費監的事情,我們黨是堅持啦,如果大家覺得有困難的話,我們就保留協商啦否則永遠就是說,我們方向是我們不反對,我們討論,但是年復一年啦,太久了啦,放太久了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4975.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4986.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
其實我對於陳昭之委員這個講法看起來是語重心長但是可能有點搞錯了要廢掉不是監察院 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4987.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
5015.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
不是啦 不是因啦 你以為我沒有提出修憲然後用嘴巴在喊 這不是 這個是我們立法院的我們的職責啊是不是這樣說 要修憲 來啊 做來就沒關係了你民進黨從來啊 就沒有反對啊說透過憲政的一個手段來重新對於整個監察院的執掌重新的來做安排 可以啊 你說要修憲來跟副長 我也贊成啊 我兩塊錢給你簽 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
5016.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
5024.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
真的 民進黨也會幫你支持啊 做回來啊但是我們卻把這個又把它丟回來給監察院是我們留下一個尾巴啊應該叫他們不是叫我們啦 我們是要住地方的 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
5030.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
5042.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
我不是這樣說 大家隨便說的跟做的都不一樣啦所以我倒會覺得說啦如果對於現在監察院的提出來這些預算對他們的業務的一個進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
5046.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
5065.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
我們認為我們已經有其他適當的一個安排的話那我覺得都可以理性來做討論啊要不然我們其他人的職長要怎麼去轉移他們現在現有的業務該如何去做一個進行我們給人家預算把它抬掉讓人家做英人現在來做監察院的人喪屍喔你就抬到零的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
5070.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
5094.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
他們的薪水你也不能給他負責 都要留薪水 人家都不用做 天啊我們留得這麼好大家也要來做監察院秘書長 大家也要來做監察院的官員這個從整個中華民國的一個所有憲政底下的一個官員就變成監察院最爽 這個看起來好像也都不對所以我倒會覺得如果真的不能談的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
5095.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
5108.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
這個就不用大家揮那麼多啦這個講到最後 也傷感情啦不如就保留 應該保留 你們就保留嘛我看你們也有一部分 大家也 監察院也也很有禮貌 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
5112.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
5139.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
就有誠意去跟每一位委員我看這個序號暗號那個地方有紅字的就是都有去跟大家溝通溝通之後大家我看檢列有檢下來也有該組決議的就代表說大家在談的時候也會有去肯認監察院它還是有發揮它的一個功能真正檢列如果過度太大的話該保留我們就保留這我也沒意見大家在這裡回家就不用切菜要炸就拍拍感情這樣 以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
5141.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
5157.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
請那個陳昭州委員我在發言因為事實上今天談的我想就是執政黨的一個議題當然讓他們在工作人員是要被人概括在承受但是我要談的是那民眾黨提出修憲提案你們會簽嗎你們有簽嗎第一個第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
5163.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
5179.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
我這生平第一次走進國會第一個會期我們提出國會改革案也是貴黨長期幾乎我每一個大概可以提出十幾個重量級的立委都曾經努力的提過我們當時就是要把聽證調查權三權分立的那個聽證其中的聽證調查權移到國會來結果呢 被複議然後又被判違憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
5191.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
5208.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
你們根本就從頭到尾就是講的就不是真的就不是真的我以前是你說的你要就是廢掉啊就是廢掉啊你們就是一直在那邊滾滾滾然後一方面又過去講的話就不算數不算數就是不算數 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
5210.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
5231.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
你們主張你沒來就沒聽到就算了啦會假裝你以前也沒參加過民進黨啦民進黨長期主張就是要廢監察院啊那廢監察院考卷就是要併入這個行政這個立法行政就是很簡單嘛這兩個權利就是併入三院嘛三個院嘛但是你就一再不再不修憲你們傳全職這也沒有努力過你們何曾努力過 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
5232.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
5236.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
不要講門檻,這是一個你們的gesture,你們的態度問題,你們的態度講話都不尊敬,講話都不尊敬,你這樣250萬塊政黨票跑到民眾黨來了我跟你講,今天我還是把態度講清楚,為什麼是這樣,年復一年,年復一年就這樣混過去了嘛,對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
5251.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5263.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
朝跟野反正整個態度就都不一樣啦那個國會改革大家拼了那麼努力結果你們憲法大法官自己自己的大法官秘密就把它全部都翻掉了這個就是一個預備跟準備啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5266.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5285.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
全世界的國會議員都有聽證調查權啊那現在就落到那個監察委員沒有民意基礎的監察委員那個身上去了這個是我連這個不學政治的這基本的東西我都懂我懂的理由就是因為你們教的你們前輩教的好我今天把話講到這裡我也知道我也希望大家是今天是公事我也沒有做人身攻擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5286.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5314.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
就是把你們過去的主張你們前輩的主張第一版原創原位的民進黨的主張把在這個會議場講出來那我也把我們民眾黨的堅持立場民眾黨我可以告訴你支持台灣的是非常多純粹的這個支持戰術比率非常的高那我代表他們來發言那如果大家覺得說我也希望保持友誼但是公式還是要把它講出來我們的態度還是要講出來那我們就希望這個案子那就保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5314.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5320.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
是 我是想說這個案子是就保留協商呢那個沈芳如麻煩就最後一個發言好嗎好 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5323.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5351.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
這個我想這個政治語言我們在這邊就不再回應了我們是在審預算我們就希望說那大家每一個委員講的政治語言我們都尊重那剛剛也陳大志委員剛剛也有提同意說就保留寫長期它是一個跨節的它有不同的節我們後面好幾案都是針對這個這個一般行政這一幕裡面各節的這些預算那它既然是一個跨節要統要我們是整個保留到後面 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5352.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5379.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
進入後面的這些議案的討論我的主張是這樣好 那麼我們這個案子先保留協商那麼在這邊我還要再重新宣告一次就是有關於稅出第六款監察院主管第一項監察院業務費提案案號第三案到第八案的部分因為剛剛的宣告有些地方好像業務代行沒有聽得清楚所以我再宣告一次那麼第三案是改為主決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5383.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5400.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
第三改為主決議那麼除以上個案除以上個案外我們的業務費我們就合併那麼剛剛處理的這個跨目的業務費我們就合併減列業務費400萬元其中通訊費減列100萬國內旅費減列100萬國外旅費減列為200萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5411.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5414.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
好 那麼這個是再一次的宣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5421.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5440.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
第十案就先保留然後接下來我們就第十一案的話我們是已經有溝通了那麼就是本席所提出來的第十一案涉及到就是第八案的保留我沒宣告我再重複一下剛剛是講到第三案 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5445.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5449.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
我們現在重新再宣告一次我們第三案是改為主決議然後第八案是保留送鞋商 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5469.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5477.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
那麼剛處理的是第三到第八案的跨目的業務費那總共合併減列400萬好通訊費減列100萬國內旅費減列100萬國外旅費減列200萬好謝謝那麼好那再回到就是說我們審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5488.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5501.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
第十一案的部分是本席所提出的有關於約聘僱人員待遇的這個項目要原來是說凍結那後來經過跟監察院這裡溝通過之後我們就改凍結5%並且要提書面報告監察院這裡已經也都溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5510.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5526.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
完畢沒有問題然後第十二案的話是徐宇甄委員的案子那麼也經過跟徐宇甄委員溝通之後呢是改簡列一百萬然後取消凍結那徐宇甄委員這邊還需要再做說明嗎第十二案還是 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5528.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5549.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
市長主席 針對第十二案本次主要提案是覺得說監察院作為憲政的監察機關應該要展現更高的道德標準但是現任的監委跟前高官把公車挪作私用載狗美容這些監察院最後紀律委員會只是以道歉或是觸其注意懲處輕微 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5551.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5571.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
也無視於車輛的養護、保險跟司機的勞務藉由納稅人買單的事實所以當時是提案要求檢練兵凍結相關預算那經與部會溝通之後那監察院也說已經新修正公佈的監察院公務車輛跟駕駛人員的管理要點 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5571.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5590.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
也會強化管理的機制那希望政察院未來能夠依據新修正的管理要等於落實派車的審核跟管理機制杜絕工期私用的亂象也確保每一筆公帑跟車輛的資源要合法的合規的使用所以本案本席也同意就是改簡略100萬元謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5594.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5613.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
好 謝謝許委員的說明那監察院這裡還有不要補充的嗎因為這個案子已經跟你們溝通溝通完畢了好 請王秘書長這個section裡面可不可以第九案跟第十二案能夠合併處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5629.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5645.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
這兩目是不一樣的吧這兩目不一樣都是一般行政但是局委員的是在業務費那我的第九案的話是在一般行政業務費 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5659.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5685.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
我想這個部分就乾脆分開好了 好不好 就還是分開處理啦對 剛剛那邊已經都宣告了 然後這邊第十二案徐委員這邊的話也就剪裂一百萬而已啊 就乾脆還是分開處理啦能不能科目自行調整科目自行調整可以嗎科目自行 我們這次就是原則上就是沒有特別講說科目自行調整的話就是還是維持就是原來指定科目 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5689.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5691.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
第13案是吳宗憲委員提案 請吳委員說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5714.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5723.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
這次那個監察院預算案會前都已經有溝通了啦但是我在這邊還是要公開我凍結的理由我這次主要是就13.19.30那我們現在在討論第13案 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5726.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5743.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
我想這部分還是跟公務車濫用的部分有關係那我是肯定說監察院已經修正管理要點但是我還是要堅持要建立具體的流行機制包括實際行駛的紀錄還有事後的追蹤紀錄然後那個才能夠確保將來這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5747.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5766.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
監察院所提出來的管理要點能夠落實 集合否則你的要點出來了但是你又沒有相關的流行機制的話那這個要點將來要怎麼樣落實去管考 去集合 那就會有問題好 這個部分已經有溝通了好 以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5767.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5790.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
好 謝謝 那秘書長還要再回應嗎對 我想這個關於強化監察院內部的集合及管理機制本院一定欣然照辦所以關於這個十三欄吳宗憲委員所提出來相關的這些管理的相關的細節及看法我們會以書面報告來說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5797.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5809.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
那所以我們是不是就動11萬6千然後改書面報告說明呢是吧好好的好那沒問題那接下來的話第14案是林沛翔委員的案子麻煩請林委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5812.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5822.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
謝謝主席 主要是在這邊他只講一句就是說首長副首長出國訪問及職員訪問考察旅費老實講再過兩個月可能現在的首長跟副首長可能也不見得會在所以說我會覺得說現在以這個狀況來講的話是否這個編列這個預算是有必要的是很有考慮的原因那加上說現在自從 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5840.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5862.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
再加上說自從疫情之後其實我們也都知道這個視訊會議是大家都在用的不管是用Cloud也好還是用其他的方式所以我覺得如果真的要出國訪問這個等於這個預算編下去我覺得是有浪費工廠之一以上好那這個案子的話我們請秘書長先來說明謝謝我們請副秘書長說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5869.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5881.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
林委員這個案件是針對首長的出國考察的部分因為委員的山跟洞其實這筆預算是完全沒有了 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5883.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5905.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
是完全沒有了等於到零然後另外呢其實有關於首長的出國首長副首長的出國考察的部分其實在那個監察院呢以往呢是有院長或者是副院長帶隊出國有相關的國家國際機構的一個相關的考察那有首長跟副首長參與其實整個規格是 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5908.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5930.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
大不相同的而且以中華民國外交上面來講那麼困難的一個現在那如果能夠reach到比較難以達到的一些國際的機構或政治國家能夠這樣子的一個外交的一個突破其實都是因為監察院有首長或者是副首長代表然後而且帶隊出國考察 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5934.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5950.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
才有這樣子的一個成效所以是不是能夠請立法院或者是林委員能夠特別考量那是不是能夠不要凍結或者是三減數目能夠左減這樣子所以剛剛這個案子跟前面的國外旅費也是不一樣的嗯哼 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5961.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5977.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
這個是專門給監察院長跟監察院副院長出國的旅費這只有在39頁上面然後只有一行在2078國外旅費然後解釋欄在第40頁的第14項就只有一句話首長副首長出國訪問及職員出國考察旅費111萬8千 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5993.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
6014.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
我會比較擔心就是這種浪費公帑的作為是關於整個出國預算的旅費的相關的那個連結我是不是請給監察院說明是請給我們說明一下好麻煩可以請那王富敏再說明一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
6015.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
6036.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
對,有關於那個國外旅費的部分,那在案期前面審議過的案期的部分,那我已經確定檢列兩百萬元那案八的部分呢,目前還是保留的,還是保留的然後那如果是同樣的一個國外旅費,這邊再有這樣子的三動數的話,其實是會影響到我們相關的執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
6043.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
6060.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
但是看起來是不同的科目啊都是都是都是國外但是剛剛林委員的意思是說他這個部分是編的你們原來是編111萬跟我這邊前面第八案的提出的這個凍結是不一樣會涵蓋在裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
6064.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
6078.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
對,委員林是大的範圍,招委這邊是大的範圍可是他要刪,他也是刪整個1296萬裡面那林委員他是裡面的一部分,就是首長的出國的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
6080.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
6101.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
對還有職員還有職員因為今年我們有編30萬的職員出國考察職員這次是我們希望能夠去新加坡然後去了解有關於因為這次都是調查處的協查同仁出國的他們是希望到新加坡去了解因為現在是AI的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
6102.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
6102.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
詹委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
6126.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
6138.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
這個案子我想因為剛才在第八案的時候我們把整個這個國外旅費的部分都已經保留結商了而且這個現在第14案他是針對這個國外旅費裡面的有關院長副院長這些帶隊這個部分但是在剛剛整個國外旅費 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
6146.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
6166.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
這國外旅費的部分就已經保留協商那是不是這一案一併就跟第八案就一併就保留我們這國外旅費的部分一併保留後續協商好不好主席 抱歉我再補充一句就是說因為其實這個院長出國的這樣子的費用呢其實立法院也有像立法院院長韓國瑜才剛剛去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
6169.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
6183.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
法國跟英國做這些外交我想這部分對台灣也還是非常重要不管是立法院或是監察院啦這部分其實應該都是同等重要的那如果我們支持立法院院長可以出去做一些交流的話那我們應該也是 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
6185.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
6202.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
要來同等支持我們台灣的監察院院長可以就他的執掌去跟其他的國家做交流才對所以還是希望在這一筆上面就是誠如剛剛這個這個省委員講的是不是可以合併一起來處理或者是林委員不堅持我們就來做一些調整這樣子 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
6204.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
6215.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
好那這個案子看林委員先要保留協商跟我前面的第八案尊重抓委好那就那就是本案就和第八案就一起保留好那接下來第十四案是徐宇甄委員這裡提出的有關於特別案特別 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
6226.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
6243.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
第十四案是林沛翔委員 接下來是第十五案 第十五案是徐宇珍委員所提的特別費的案子 那麼已經有經過溝通了 看徐委員還需要再說明嗎 請謝謝主席 本期所提出的第十五案 提案的主因主要是在 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6244.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6264.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
監察院去年收受的於大概萬件的人民書狀可是立案的比率卻只有1.2%而且案件審查的標準不一也會遭質疑選擇性的辦案干預學術自由嚴重的傷害檢查機關的公正性另外還有就是剛剛提到的監委是用公務車的這個圍屍監院也採取比較寬鬆的標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6269.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6290.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
這個讓公眾幸福所以原本是提案要求全數檢列那跟監察院有來溝通過之後呢最終是同意檢列該項預算一百萬元但是還是要督促監察院要回應社會對於辦公正心跟內部機率的關切那因為監察院是全國這個在監督全國公園的最高機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6290.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6300.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
也更應該要嚴格要求內部的行政倫理跟這個廉政的一個紀律那也能夠以最高的標準來自我審查謝謝好那麼這是徐委員的案子然後因為之前已經溝通過了是改簡列100萬不好意思請 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6313.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6328.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
監察院這邊是不是能請求我們委員會我們在15案跟16案這兩案因為都是特別費相關的科目,是不是能夠並案一起來討論? |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6330.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6344.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
好15案跟16案對都是特別費那麼16案是本席的案子那麼我當時沒有同意說要簽的原因是就是其實我跟許委員都是同樣這個改減了100萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6347.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6352.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
但是因為本席這裡有凍結的條件有負凍結的條件70%那本席是認為說第一個就是也是希望說能夠等到監察院新任院長、副院長、運輸長就任之後呢那麼我們再把這個其他剩餘的特別費然後予以解凍所以那這裡的話是提出凍結這個七成 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6371.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6391.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
那可以 但是可以同意都是改檢列100是請 我們是不是 讓監察人再說明這個15 16案 那這個昭緯這16案呢如果先檢列100 然後再凍結7成其實已經超過原來的預算數已經超過原來的預算數所以是不是可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6393.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6397.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
超過原來預算數不會啊?對,動3如果動了100萬就剩下119然後如果原來219的7成是153萬這兩個加起來已經是253萬3千,已經超過原來的預算數 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6417.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6429.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
是這樣的那本席是可以就是核聚真委員兩個案子是合併就是減裂100然後但是動70%你就不是動減200了嗎就不是所謂減200 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6434.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6451.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
補留啦 補留啦 補留啦就是減劣一百萬我們就是說你如果減劣一百的話 你就減劣一百 你就有同意就減一百你現在你又減劣 又減凍 這樣定義到原來預算數又超過好 那就保留 我們其實就是減劣一百萬嘛 然後另外就是凍 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6452.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6478.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
所以我的意思就是說如果剛好徐遠這個地方減裂100機關這個地方也認為好吧就減裂100那就不用再給它凍結了因為你的預算書你都拿一半了因為這個凍結的原因也是因為想說這個之後等到監察院院長副院長還有新任的秘書長到任之後才解凍那當然凍結我可以凍少一點也是可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6479.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6500.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
因為簡略性的最嚴重的啦,我們都已經有採最激烈的簡略的是不是凍結的部分簡略性基於就是國家政府支出過高過龐大,所以所有特別費都應該遵截使用那凍結的原因的話就是考慮到就是要等到新任監察院院長、副院長還有秘書長就任之後然後再進行解凍 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6501.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6524.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
那這樣的話如果說是我們減列100萬然後我動節改動節30%這樣的話可以同意嗎可以同意的話我們就一起這兩個案子就合併處理了第15案第16案就總共就是減列啦我跟徐宇甄委員兩個加起來就是減列100萬是不是容讓監察院來說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6527.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6541.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
那委員如果說是我們這樣文字更明確一點就是說減電100然後是動三節預算以後的30%這樣可不可以動什麼三節預算就是三減預算後的30%這樣會不會比較明確是好不好可以三減預算後的30%可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6554.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6571.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
好那就請你算一下然後再提一個那個新的那個單子好了好那這樣15 16案我們就並案處理了好那接下來好那我們整目再做一個宣告稍等我一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6575.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6581.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
35萬7千元所以是35萬7嗎?好就凍結35萬7千元嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6593.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6596.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
沒有 沒事 八號你的基隆原種 你選的多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6619.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6641.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
還好耶因為紀詠蠻淡的我選立委的時候紀詠蠻淡的因為我是遇到三軍三軍因為一軍是那時候的縣立委才適應就他不選二軍然後一、二軍剛被提名完然後就被人家抓去補隊再補一個議員就是三軍所以在打之前就已經整個氣勢很冷 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6646.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6671.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
依然是這樣子,因為五五波嘛五五波然後又是賴清德清點,他就重心壓近了現在重心壓近了還要進三格,好累喔,進三格也沒那麼容易啊不管他,反正我就還是一樣做我的事情前幾天我跟魷魚柔酥啊,站到最後一刻,不倒下 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6687.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6693.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
好 我們現在進行第一幕一般行政提案案號第九案到第十六案的審查結果宣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6695.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6723.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
那麼本案這一幕裡面有第十案跟第十四案是保留送協商那除以上個案外就是本幕合併簡列三百萬元那麼並且針對簡列提案的要求依審查會決議處理那麼我們另外再凍結四百三十九萬一千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6725.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6743.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
並針對各凍結提案的要求依審查會決議提出書面報告後 使得凍之接著我們就處理第二幕的議事業務提案案號第四第十七案到第十八案我們請林沛翔委員說明兩個案子就合併說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6743.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6771.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
好 謝謝主席那第17案是有關的業務費的問題那老實說議事行政的編列之業務費在於提高行政效率複查監察工作的推動但是很尷尬就是說本屆的監察院目前查案率目前執行下來只有2%那成效不彰那相關的經費編列很明顯有所謂討論的空間所以本席在這邊减一半 動一半 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6771.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6789.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
然後這是針對這個第二幕第一項的這個議事行政第二項有關國際監察事務活動老師說我剛剛已經提過說國際交流活動其實它的必要性跟實際效益其實已經在這個疫情之後已經有大幅度的改變了而且這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6790.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6804.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
這種高額的差旅跟接待經費費的編列是不是有浮邊我覺得這方面我們應該想盡辦法來去以效率效果為優先然後來去重新再去整治有關國際監察事務活動的經費使用 以上好 那麼請監察院說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6814.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6841.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
關於第十七案的部分是議事行政其實議事行政其實這筆費用是最主要是我們要召開院會談話會召集人會議各常設委員會還有廉政委員會等等的或者是糾纏案件的審查會這些會議他們所需要運用到的引印機跟相關的一些議事費用紙張等等的那其實它的執行率 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6841.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6858.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
是非常的高的只是因為跟預算中心他們當時他們在統計的時候是在七八月但是去年呢七八月的時候監察院是有關於一般行政是完全被刪除所以後來是因為去九月的時候追加預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6860.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6885.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
進來以後才有辦法開始執行所以不是執行率2%的這是因為計算的基準有差別然後這些這些相關的議事費用因為一定都要用到這些比如說像影音機我們都是租用的還有一些用紙還有一些議事行政的那個部分然後另外第18第18案的國外旅費的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6886.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6908.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
這一點呢 監察院要特別的說明因為呢 這裡面有包括一部分是我們是邀請國外的外賓來國內來參訪來瞭解中華民國那其實呢 在五月份的時候已經有烏拉圭的人權的瓜地馬拉的人權的檢察長 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6911.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6936.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
他是要已經要在五月底已經要來了在十月份的時候還有阿根廷的監察使是要來中華民國那這些費用都是是固定的而且是一定要支出如果被煽動其實是會影響非常大那剛剛已經說明就是今年還要去那個伊比利監察使在 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6937.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6955.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
在阿根廷要召開年會那裡面還有包括我們參加這三個國際組織的會費每一年的會費那這個如果把我們一扇又動其實是這樣子其實費用當然是費用其實我們編列得非常的非常的尊潔 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6956.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6973.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
如果把他們煽動了這些相關的交流都要完全受到非常大的影響不管是議事行政或者是國外旅費的這個部分對監察院來講真的是非常的必要那我們也是編列得非常尊潔以上說明就來請林委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6977.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6996.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
本席在這邊講有關議事行政的第一項那是因為查案率2%不是你們用的錢2%那老師講查案率2%基本上是本屆查案率不是今天是第幾個會期的查案率第二件事情就是有關國際監察署活動那邊是說不同的經費你們用同樣的Purpose |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
7001.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
7025.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
是這個意思嗎?因為你們剛剛講說CDOCDO的話我記得沒有錯的話,台灣民主基金會也在補助啊那你們這邊也有列嘛那變成說剛剛在提到之前出國的費用也是CDO那變成說我就很好奇就是說你們現在已經變成是什麼只要是一個業務所有的國外的費用都可以報,可以留用是嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
7027.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
7040.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
我這邊要跟林委員說明一下就是說你一直在計算那個償率其實我們每件陳情我們都有處理不是說陳情來了然後我們就不理他 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
7041.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
7059.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
只是說最後陳情處理的過程有很多的方式第一個他進來我們開始在研究整個案情的內容那案情內容如果是確實有明確的內容因為有些陳情他並沒有辦法讓我們很明確他的主張啊他的想法是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
7060.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
7077.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
但是我們都會再去請教陳情人的基本的意見或者說覺得可以討論的我們也會含詢各機關了解說陳情人所說的內容是什麼所以並不是查案率只有2%我們每一件案子都會做處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
7078.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
7081.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
所以這個可能是對我們監察院業務的一個誤解啦才造成了這個林委員說應該要簡列這麼多所以事實上我們對每一個澄清人他的澄清的內容我們內部都有處理只是處理機制有些部最後 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
7096.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
7111.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
最後覺得說重大的然後內容不是說重大就是覺得說有名誒事實上有監委他本身基於職權認為應該要調查了才最後進行派查的工作所以事實上是每個案子都有處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
7112.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
7139.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
好 來 請張委員好 那這一個部分呢 我想 因為到底我覺得可能林委員也要說清楚啦到底那多少趴才叫做合理 才叫可以接受因為我想我們自己立法委員都會受到很多選民的陳情嘛但是可能實踐裡面也不是每一件都可以成立去進行啊因為有時候選民可能講清楚之後他覺得他不需要了或是他覺得他不想要進行了都有可能有非常多的理由會造成一個陳情沒有辦法進行的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
7142.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
7170 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
所以我覺得這邊來講而且剛剛我想不管是監察院都講得非常非常清楚他們每個監察委員不是說案子來只有每個人都是一個案子案子來去參與他可能會有好幾個委員一起去參與一個個案我想剛剛這個整個程序都講得非常清楚了啦所以我想這個還是希望就是林委員可以再思考一下再調整一下不然就清楚讓我們知道說到底要多少%才叫做合理的數字那另外一個部分就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
7171.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
7198.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
針對於國家國際監察事務活動我這邊也要給大家一個提醒因為今年兩公約我是有去的那我們也都有全程看這些監察他們的一些發表跟討論的直播那其實裡面主席就有講到就是說他們都有感受到這個預算的刪減對他們的影響所以他也有提到說是不是應該來拜訪我們的立法院那我會認為說這其實也攸關國家的形象因為這些國際委員都到很多的國家去做這些不管是訪問調查審查等等的 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
7199.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
7226.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
我是希望說我們今天就就事論事務實理性的來討論啦謝謝主席好 范委員因為剛剛那個林佩祥委員提到那個CDO我想解釋一下它其實是聯合國的一個公約消除婦女一切形式歧視的公約那它其實是馬英九的政績因為它是2012年在馬英九總統的支持下把它國內法化 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
7227.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
7252.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
那他其實是不管誰執政他監督的是政府譬如政府有哪些地方他會有建議書就是說應該要再修正處理所以下次林委員也許就是也可以去現場聽聽看那我想他其實是有非常多的專家NGO在這邊提供他們對政府的哪些政策覺得有一些問題那所以這是還蠻重要的國際交流活動那這部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7253.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7265.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
是馬英九的政績所以我是覺得他不分黨派就是可以讓他繼續努力啊好以上好請您委員主席如果兩邊沒有共識的話就送協商吧好我想這個兩個案子就是這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7269.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7296.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
這個與這個監察院這邊好了那討論結果沒有共識那我想這兩岸就送協商那另外有關於剛剛大家講的CEDAW的會議我在這邊這個作為召委我要特別要譴責這個法務部事實上還有行政院為什麼因為其實我們立法院立法委員們是在開會的前兩三天才收到邀請函根本完全不知道有開CEDAW的這樣的會議兩公約的這個人權會議所以這個基本上是法務部失職 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7299.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7314.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
而且在這個會議裡面其實據我了解這些國際人權委員也對於立法院過去的一些作為他們並不是很清楚監察委員也任意的批評立法院所通過的相關的法案 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7314.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7342.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
那這個部分都是對立法院有很大的誤解可是呢卻都沒有一個很完整很良善的一個溝通那我想就是說如果行政院有誠意希望能夠讓立法院的委員們能夠參與這個會議的話要提前作業而不是可能是被某些人提醒了之後然後才在開會的前兩三天才寄發邀請函給本院的委員當然我不知道是不是每一位委員都有收到 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7343.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7371.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
或許只有司法委員會的委員少數幾位有收到那我覺得這樣是做法是很不對的好那麼接下來呢我們在好我們接下來就來宣告我們第二幕議事業務提案案號第17案到第18案那第17案第18案經過剛剛討論的結果就是我們保留送協商那接著呢我們就處理第三幕的調查巡查業務提案案號是第19案到第23案 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7374.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7402.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
那第19案到第23案有吳宗憲委員 林茜琴委員 林沛翔委員還有徐宇貞委員 林沛翔委員等委員提案我們就先請吳宗憲委員來先說明 謝謝主席我想說19跟30我一起把我的說法說出來這樣比較節省時間第一個我想請教一下監察院不好意思 監察院請問一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7403.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7418.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
我在去年的時候我有提出案子就是有關我檢舉卓榮泰不依法編列軍警消預算他在違反公務員最基本的依法行政的義務不是權利喔 是義務 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7419.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7446.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
還有去年十月我當時有檢舉南台灣有很多起破壞國土的案子包括美濃天坑大平頂保護區變成垃圾山還有碼頭山廢棄物這些案子我想請問一下這幾個案子有沒有分案有沒有再動作因為完全沒有任何都沒有有任何的訊息請問是不是請市議委員會來說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7451.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7473.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
報告委員這個案子在115年1月14號我們司法預證委員會第六屆第六十四會議我們決議要求我們幕僚要針對這個案子特別的加以研究我們在這個月有提出一個研究報告那經過我們委員有激烈的討論針對到底這個憲政問題的一些討論過 討論大概十幾二十分鐘然後呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7481.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7505.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
呃他才是我們呢叫我們再修改一下然後準備提會準備什麼我們已經提會了研究報告已經提會了上上這次這個月就提會了大概他差不多有一百多頁所以你們說就憲政的部分是說呃因為我我我沒有與會嗎所以我不太清楚你說你們是就憲政部分激烈的討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7508.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7529.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
因為我覺得這個是一個憲法的基本概念就是說公務員可以不依法行政的我還是想不通可以怎麼做那當然我會尊重監察院的討論所以你們現在有這樣的進度對不對那這個報告我們是可以拿得到的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7531.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7558.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
你用麥克風好不好你看一下麥克風因為我們委員會是合一職委員會不是幕僚監察委員是委員會的主體所以要經過監察委會討論後由他們來決定那不是我幕僚可以決定的但是的確我們針對委員的指示委員會的召集人跟委員會指示要我們加以強加研究我們就討論著整個有關於權力分離的問題就這個個案 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7560.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7588.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
好 那這樣喔 如果你們說做出來的那個報告可以的話 那麻煩給我們一份我們也來拜讀一下啦 看看貴院的那個憲法的那個分析是怎麼樣報告委員 我們現在目前還沒有通過所以要等到通過以後 然後委員會決議是不是公開公開或不公開 那但是呢 基本上是有這份報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7588.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7613.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
沒問題我就說我這邊都是尊重那個櫃院過往的做法公開不公開我想一定會有他的理由啦那那個理由也應該是可受公平的那這個部分我必須要知道而且我必須要知道整個進度是怎麼樣因為我還是一個感覺是這樣因為我們這次立法院的預算中心有提出一份報告就說櫃院的國家人權業務費用遠高於那個調查監察業務費用 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7618.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7632.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
這是我們預算中心有提出來的其實這跟憲法的職權 憲法所設計的職權是有問題的我沒有反對人權的維護 未遇支持但是我要問的是說 這些預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7634.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7649.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
到底能不能夠真正解決我剛剛所提出來的一些問題比如說我說之前我提出檢舉的部分包括南台灣的很多起國土破壞的案件美濃天坑、大平頂保護區變垃圾山等等的這個案子其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7650.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7670.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
這個東西也跟人權有關啊我國憲法的第二章基本人權的部分本來就有包括到生存權工作權財產權甚至我們我國憲法第二章像22條他有說不違反公共利益下面的人民的權利都要予以保護嘛那既然這些都是屬於基本人權那 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7672.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7700.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
為什麼在我看來這些都沒有動作結果你們所謂的國家人權業務費用卻遠高於這些監察的業務費用所以這個是我沒有辦法理解的啦既然這些也都是國內重要人權的業務事項也是我國憲法第二章所規範的國人的基本人權那為什麼我到現在並沒有看到一個很積極的一個動作 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7700.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7716.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
因為如果說這些什麼天坑、光電濫墾、非法氣質監察院都沒有具體調查、追蹤、糾正這些這些都沒有做的話那你們所謂的人權業務會只剩下報告跟建議啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7716.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7731.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
那對國家一點意義都沒有然後剩下只剩下報告跟建議的這個業務還比真正需要你們去執行彈劾 糾舉 糾正 調查 審計的這個憲法上面的基本的權限 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7732.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7753.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
反而都沒有做就是你們把大部分 更多的錢花在只剩下報告跟建議對國家毫無建設性的事情上面我想這個東西 我的每一個論述我都接受大家的公平啦但是我看到的 目前我國的狀況是這樣所以我希望 監察院你們必須提出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7754.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7773.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
因為你們也知道我們會前已經有討論過了那我也沒有為難你們這你們也心裡很清楚所以我希望監察院必須要提出第一個重大國土案件立案跟結案的標準還有追蹤列管的機制還有人權業務如何轉化成制度改革跟法制的建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7774.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7793.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
要落實而不是說像現在幾乎都只有報告跟建議那一般人根本就無感那立法院也無感因為我想說這才是立法院凍結預算真正的目的我不是杯葛檢察院那像剛剛陳昭志委員所提到的過往民進黨希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7794.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7822.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
由五權變到三權那現在希望維持繼續維持五權這個制度的選擇我想各有利弊啦但是既然目前監察院你還在了一天而且我編列預算了一天麻煩回歸到憲法原本設計的位置把監察院的事情做好好不好這是我希望維護我國憲政體制這點麻煩你們一定要做到那我剛剛的要求你們可以做到嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7827.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7840.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
那個委員所提的三個提案那其實我們前面都有非常多的溝通跟說明那我們基本上會按照委員提案的內容詳細的提出書面報告以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7841.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7857.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
好 謝謝也麻煩你們注意一下立法院預算中心的提醒本院這邊有一些提醒貴院的幾個事項包括說你們預算的編列其實跟憲法職權已經不合這是本院的預算中心報告好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7858.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7886.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
好那麼謝謝吳宗憲委員好那麼接下來那因為這個案子的話是之前已經也也溝通過了好第十九案好溝通過了就是凍結凍結86萬1000然後改書面報告好那麼接下來第二十案是林建勤委員的案子那麼因為這案子也跟林長玉也溝通過了所以改組決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7896.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7917.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
所以第22案你經過通過就沒有問題那麼接下來第21案跟第23案都是林沛翔委員的案子要不要請林沛翔委員來說明您的兩個案21案跟23案現在我們是在第三目調查巡查業務業務費的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7928.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7946.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
好 謝謝昭緯 也是一樣 針對這個調查業務呢也是一樣 我們擔心是說這屆的誠信案件增加 可是沒有對應的查案率所以說難以具體量化新增預算的效益所以為了保持 為了追蹤這個效果 還有避免浪費公帑所以在這邊凍結加刪除 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7948.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7961.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
同樣的也是一樣有關委員國外考察本席的想法跟昭緯一樣如果能夠等到說下一屆的監察委員出來的話這個實質上的業務才會比較有意義所以說再次凍結兼刪除 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7964.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7982.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
那麼這兩個案子經常因為還要說明嗎因為其實之前也都講了那配強委員這邊的話會要有在討論時尚的空間還是說沒有的話我們就直接保留還是先讓那個黃秘書長這邊再說明一下好了我們再請秘書長說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7987.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
8016.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
有關於調查巡查的部分的確是說林委員是認為我們的派查率就是大概2%左右派查率偏低可是其實我剛剛已經說明監察委員他們要做的事情非常的多元而且繁雜不只是調查案件他們還要收受人民訴狀因為收受人民訴狀這一屆的確是已經超過9萬件數量非常的多每一案都要依法處理而且要依法含附 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
8016.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
8040.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
然後另外呢他們還要負責去中央巡查地方巡查然後處理糾舉彈劾跟糾正案件然後另外還要處理中央的政府的總決算跟地方政府的總決算等等的然後還有財產申報業務跟正式現金跟利益衝突迴避然後再加上這一屆有國家人權所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
8041.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
8055.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
委員的行使職權是非常的多元而且繁雜的那僅以派查率的高低來這樣子的說明呢可能是不夠完整的這是 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
8056.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
8079.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
這是有關於調查巡查的那個部分然後另外呢如果煽動我們的調查巡查費用其實上半年我們就按照預算法54條已經有些去執行的比如說地方巡查他們已經去各地去巡查也收受人民書狀那中央巡查各委員會他們也都去各地去各政府機關各部會 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
8080.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
8091.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
去巡查那調查的部分有諮詢旅館這些費用都已經在支出如果山洞的比例比較高的話真的會影響我們的相關的職權的一些作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
8096.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
8113.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
那有關於國外旅費的部分呢其實整個國外旅費的總總額的金額就是1296萬那它的各個的子目錄會散在不同的子目錄下那並沒有重複編列的問題一定整個總額就是1296萬那以上說明好 請省委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
8122.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
8137.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
好 我看這個21案跟23案大概就都是這個簡列一半 凍結一半那凍結現在已經五月了 等到我們預算協商等到預算整合 我們總預算通過然後再三個月的時間大概就是幾乎是全部無法凍結 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
8139.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
8159.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
那這個按照剛剛有講 按照預算法 例如四條 他們事實上這個上半年是可以動之的 他們已經有動之的一些部分這個 所以我想這部分可能很難 照這個林委員的提案這樣子通過那我們是不是就一樣把這個案子就保留到協商 我們大家再來 再來具體談 好吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
8161.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
8188.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
同意好那這樣的話我們這兩案就保留送協商好那接下來呃林對呃等一下因為那個呃林倩琦委員呃對林倩琦委員案中我們剛已經有講過因為他有溝通過第20案已經改成主決議了好的那接下來我們就等一下來宣告第19案到第23案第三目調查巡查業務的審查結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8193.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8210.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
我們第三目調查巡查業務提案案號第19案第23案的審查結果如下那第20案是改為主決議那21案23案保留受協商那麼除了以上個案之外本目合併凍結231萬8千元那麼並針對凍結提案的要求依照審查會決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8220.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8227.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
是要提出書面報告後 使得動之那接著我們就處理第四幕的財產申報業務提案案號是第24案到第25案 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8234.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8261.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
好 那麼這兩個案子24案跟25案是徐宇甄委員跟本席所提出來的提案那麼經過與監察院溝通過之後呢我們24案是改動50萬元並且要交書面報告後 使得雲芝 使得解凍那25案的話也是改動5% |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8263.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8279.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
百分之五二十八萬三千元然後改交書面報告所以第四目財產申報業務的預算案審查結果是提案案後二十四案到二十五案 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8280.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8297.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
那麼本目合併就凍結七十八萬三千元那麼請監察院針對凍結提案的要求依審查會的決議提出書面報告後使得動之那接著我們就處理第五目的國家人權業務提案案號是第26案到第35案 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8303.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8327.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
那麼我們首先先請陳昭之委員針對第26案提案來進行說明好謝謝主席在我提任何說法之前包括之前請不要有任何人說我是在做違憲的工作陳總統親自告訴我他在任的時候有兩三年完全這個預算監察預算是零從來沒有一個人說他違憲陳昭之這麼小大概你們也不要總統都這麼講了 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8329.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8349.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
那國家人權業務,國家人權業務我們也有相當的意見,立法院預算中心已經點出多項疑議尤其這個是115年的國家人權業務計畫當中的業務費預算案數是監察院本身的調查、巡查等核心業務的5到10倍之多 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8350.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8374.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
是核心業務的五到十倍之多那麼媒體政策跟業務宣導費預算數也都呈現上升的趨勢但過去實現率這個實行率偏低了而且很重要的花了錢也缺乏多元性的成效平和指標也就是說國家人權委員會的預算配置跟他在憲法下剛剛吳委員也有提到這個憲法下的職權 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8375.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8404.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
是完全沒有相符那115年度國家人權計劃預算案數較114年度追加後增加了11.76倍增加了將近12倍是監察院整本預算書當中各項業務計劃中增加最多的一個部分那我們看看過去國家人權委員會對於公務員被職場霸凌辛苦的警察、消防同仁沒辦法組工會 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8405.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8429.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
勞工被低薪欺壓、霸凌等狀況毫無建樹跟發言這些都是明明都是有關人權重要事項但是國家人權委員會毫不重視那這樣的組織適合叫國家人權委員會嗎我真的要打一個問號所以我們主張本黨主張要簡列八千萬元以上報告麻煩請范雲委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8436.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8461.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
我想這個部分我是覺得其實可以看一下那個國家人權委員會他們的報告我知道昭資委員也非常的支持人權的議題以我自己關心的議題來講的話國家人權委員會都是在對政府做糾舉譬如說以我們關心的教育部處理相關的校園的暴力的部分教育部的公務員就有被 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8462.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8485.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
國家人權委員會的報告糾舉他們有一些地方的失誤所以其實這個對監督政府的幫助很大那您剛講的工會的部分那我們其實也有看到那個國籍航空公司的女性空服員的服役規定的調查報告那的確就促使了所有的航空公司特別是國籍航空公司放寬服役規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8486.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8515.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
那瑞對空服員工會的訴求他們其實也有回應到那另外最近我也有看到就是以校園的那個性暴力的機制的話那其實教育部有的時候很難去處理大學那也是因為監察院的報告就有糾舉台大在處理校園性暴力的一個個案的時候那沒有依照法律的規定所以我想這些部分都有看到就是國家人權委員會其實實質上發揮了不少 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8516.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8535.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
他們在工作上就是說監督政府的機構包含像教育部然後剛剛講航空公司還有到台大這些機構所以我想那個招資委員也很關心人權那這個他的預算一億那你刪了八千萬等於就是要把整個國家人權委員做拿掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8535.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8556.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
那這個部分也有一點點背離您希望就是費考監然後實質上能夠做更有貢獻的事那我想這個部分我還是希望說招資委員為了這個國家的人權那可以少砍或者用動的方式來處理以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8558.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8582.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
三位委員好那這一部分我其實我想要釐清啦因為大家都一直很在剛剛其實不管是委員或成員都有提到就是國家人權業務的費用為什麼會高於監察因為我想待會可能要詳細的說明啦但我也想要再釐清一件事情就是說我知道因為今年我自己非常關心CRC嘛那我知道今年我們就要開始進行所謂的準備審查的相關事務啦那這可能也會這裡面的費用如果一起一億刪掉八千萬我有點擔心這會對我們國際審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8586.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8596.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
會造成很大的影響因為國際審查是知識體大的一件事情所以待會是不是可以詳細的說明這樣子的影響性到底是什麼讓監察院來詳細說明來請黃秘書長我請國家人權委員會執行秘書來說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8605.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8623.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
謝謝陳委員就是跟陳委員先報告一下就是其實我們今年的預算並沒有比去年預算多變很多那因為其實去年我們是因為預算被刪了96.93%那我們今年的編列數其實是比去年的編列數還要低那這是第一個部分先跟您報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8624.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8648.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
那第二部分就是國家安全委員會的業務從成立以來其實我們就不斷的針對各項的人權議題還有就是組織法所賦予我們的九大職權然後去一一的辦理相關的事宜那包括我們也辦理了陳情的申訴案件那目前受理案件也有八百多件那其中也有很多是已經有改善的那並且也有三個調查報告然後都已經公佈 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8649.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8673.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
那在最近的部分就是包括像今年我們要辦理的兩公約的審查會那以及接下來在7月份要辦理CEDAW就是消除婦女一切形式其實公約的審查會那以及到11月還要辦理有關CRPD就是身心障礙者權利公約的審查會其實這些部分我們都已經出具了獨立評估意見那正如剛剛張委員所講的因為我們馬上就要針對明年要辦理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8676.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8696.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
CRC就是兒童權利公約的審查會開始要做一些相關的業務包括我們也要去各分區去做了解然後也要了解這個各相關的這個兒童權利相關團體以及兒童兒童者本身也就是利害關係他們的一些情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8696.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8717.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
所以这部分其实是经费上面是非常的吃紧那包括我们今年其实要发布马上就要我们已经发布生性障碍者权利公约的独立评估意见但是其实同步我们照理应该也要除了有中文版英文版以外我们还需要制作点字版手语版以及这个就是所谓的一读版 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8717.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8738.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
那這部分其實目前都還沒有辦法執行那可是這部分其實會影響到整個的身心障礙者他在閱讀以及收取資訊的相關權利那另外也跟陳委員報告就是說其實我們目前陳情深所調查案有發布的有三案那其實我們還有受理一件是有關身心障礙者的大眾交通運輸工具這個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8739.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8756.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
那因為這個案子其實需要同時對視障、聽障還有肢體障礙者去做了解以及全省的一些入運方面的一些目前的服務情況所以這部分其實都很需要經費的挹注那另外就是國家安全委員會其實到目前為止已經發布了15個專案報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8758.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8785.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
提出的建議都已經超過了50項以上其中有很多建議已經有經過各部會去做一些改善所以其實相關部分我們都有公布在我們的網站上所以除了獨立評估意見另外我們這幾年其實還有針對新型的人權議題包括AI與人權然後發布了我們的意見書這個意見書其實在國際上都受到很大的肯定包括APF的會員國以及全球國家人權機構聯盟 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8786.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8813.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
他們都有特別取得我們這個意見書然後並且發布給他們的相關的會員國然後讓他們去做一個參處所以以上有稍微簡單的說明一下我們的目前辦理情形那至於預算的編列上面其實我們的預算就是針對我們組織法所要求我們的職權去做編列那並沒有影響到監察院的預算的編列數那以上就希望陳委員這邊再多餘考量那可以減刪的部分就麻煩陳委員這邊 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8817.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8824.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
我想針對這個案子 那麼是陳委員這裡你有再斟酌的可能嗎如果沒有的話 我們就保留送協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8831.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8843.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
國家人權有很多跌床架屋的部分過去做的部分我們覺得不盡滿意雖然剛剛張委員提到針對哪一些部會公務員被職場霸凌當然也是部會的問題警消組工會的問題也是部會的問題這個層級都是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8849.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8873.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
那現在至少有好幾個嘛監察那個國家人權委本身然後法務部各個部會其實很多的地方都可以在這個有這個疊藏家屋然後過去沒有評估啊錢花了但是我們沒有看到你們有一些個多元性的一個指標來做一些評估花錢就是要評估所以說這個我想是謝謝謝謝主席就是說我再說明一下然後請我們還是支持保留好嗎好的好 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8875.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8889.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
了解 好 那所以26案就先保留送協商那接下來27案 28案那個召委他要再說明一下我想因為待會我們後面還有幾個案子我們一起討論好不好我們說明一下尤其諜長叫這個我們先保留送協商因為待會27案 28案 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8893.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8906.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
29案、30案、31案都已經溝通過了那麼所以呢我想我們這邊就是先進行宣告就是徐宇甄委員的話就是國家人權業務這裏改簡列3000萬29案的部分是改簡列450萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8914.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8918.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
然後這27這個金額是併到27萬那麼第28案就本席所提出來的就刪減沒宣費的部分是改減列650萬那就是併到第32案 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8934.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8949.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
的這個刪減業務費3000萬裡面好那接下來然後30案的部分是吳宗憲委員這已經是改成都溝通了改成動15%好然後31案的話是林憲吉委員是改組決議那接下來我們請33案34案還有35案林沛翔委員來請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8954.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8960.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
好 謝謝主席 基本上 對不起 要先讓秘書長先講這邊有併案的請求 是不是請副秘書這邊27案的部分減列3000萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8970.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8995.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
現在剪裂三千萬沒錯那三十二案也是剪裂三千萬那如果合併剪裂的話就會變成六千萬那其實這樣子對於國家人權委員會的影響還是已經超過一定的比例所以是不是這兩案能夠合併處理我想這邊的話我們就是大概兩個委員就是有不同的意見所以就都還是分別處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9000.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9011.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
這個是不是保留好不好因為他們會無法運作那個三十二是不是不能併的話就保留好了去年其實你們也是可以運作你們去年不是只有一千多萬嗎保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9015.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9036.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
如果保留的話那就是原來的簡歷的部分就全部都回到原來的案子就代表說之前的溝通是沒有意義的應該是32而已喔32跟那個哪個保留其他的已經溝通完了嗎32跟27保留就好其實2732還有林培祥委員的33到35都要合併考量因為都是整個國家安全業務的第五目的經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9042.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9054.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
還是主席我建議一下好不好我們就先講完我們再一起討論合併我們還是先請林配項委員先說明好了這三案好 謝謝主席其實這三案的理由是一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9055.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9082.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
因為這次看到的編列的預算都會集中在研究媒體宣導合作交流跟委辦事項跟實質上的人權保障跟成效的直接關聯性未明所以說整個業務雖然業務包含了有關人權案件的處理跟制度改善成效之間的關聯性跟績效但是事實上還不明確所以說我在這邊還是建議說如果說剛剛這個檢察院已經講過這三案也要保留的話那我尊重檢察院的想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9082.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9088.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
因為這三個案加起來可能跟第26案其實是一樣太多以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9092.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9118.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
因為現在看起來就是說原來這個徐宇甄委員這裡是2729案要合併減列3000萬那本席這裡的話是32加上28案是可以合併減列3000萬可是這個部分應該分別處理了而不是合併減列那麼如果說是這個監察院這邊有意見的話那我們就是整目就是從26案 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9121.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9150.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
三十一案主決議這是可以沒有問題那就是二十六案到三十五案就全部都保留三十案跟三十一案兩個都是有溝通過一個是凍結嘛對不對然後三十一案是改組決議那所以現在就是二六二七二八二九三二 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9152.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9176.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
33 34 35全部都保留請監察院要仔細思考這個之後保留不見得對你們更有利請問一下28跟29可不可以合併考量就是都是沒宣布你是說27跟29嗎28跟2928跟29都是針對被宣布的對我現在就是不同意就是因為不同的委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9182.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9197.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
我想就保留好因為這個跟剛才前面我們的一樣就是說他們在協商的過程裡面是認為他們在這個額度裡面才可以運作你現在把所有其他每個案子談好的數字全部都分別並列那加起來總數 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9198.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9226.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
甚至如果有五個委員提案有可能會超過預算數這個是應該整個協商的過程應該不是這個爭議所以我是我想這個如果這個部分沒有辦法達成共識還是保留到時候總體來考量好 那麼就這個部分就整體就是全部都送保留除了剛剛宣告的30跟31案這已經都通過一個凍結改組決議之外好 等到第五幕我們待會再宣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9229.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9250.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9258.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9262.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
我們現在針對第五目國家人權業務提案案號第26案到第35案進行審查結果的宣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9284.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9287.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
好,那我們第31案改為主決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9289.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9305.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
那保留送協商的案件有第26案到第29案以及第32案到第35案那麼除了以上個案之外我們本目合併我們凍結1672萬7千元然後請針對各凍結提案的要求要依審查會的決議提出書面報告後使得凍值 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9316.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9338.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
那麼我們接著就處理第六目的一般建築及設備那提案號是第36案到第38案可是剛剛我們沒有針對第30案做宣告你是不是寫了凍結數裡面這個就是凍結數 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9340.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9369.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
好的 那麼好 那接下來的話就是剛剛第36案好 那請陳昭志委員說明 謝謝好 謝謝主席好 祕書長你現在可以稍微輕鬆一點這個案子我是請您先說明一下你這個中央空調 通風機監控等相關設備等相關系統改善工程那這比經費和古蹟維護有什麼關係我聽聽看你的說法好 謝謝那我先講一下疊窗架屋好不好不好意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9372.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9375.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
好來請黃秘書長我們會順帶一起把疊蟲教這個議題簡單來說明好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9382.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9406.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
那我快速說明一下 其實因為監察院職權主要是憲政職權所以是以彈劾跟糾舉不當的公務人員以及是違法失職的一些相關的情勢做糾正這種憲政職權是屬於事後監督的性質那國家安全業務呢 它是依照巴黎原則其實民間團體跟學者推動了20年才成立的 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9406.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9435.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
那我們的業務是依照聯合國的巴黎原則是以保護人權促進人權為主要的功能那也謝謝陳委員其實過去都很支持人權業務包括我們去年跟雙性人辦了一個全球的雙性人聯合大會也謝謝陳委員有到場支持那所以其實我們其實業務上面是跟監察院的業務其實是不同的那以調查雖然我們都有調查權可是監察院的調查它是屬於比較強行的調查就是行政機關一定要配合 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9436.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9461.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
而且掉牙後他可以透過糾舉彈劾糾正然後促進機關以及違法的施職人員做改進那國家安全會其實我們是有事前預防以及事後的一個功能那包括我們也可以做一些系統性的訪查針對全國的系統性跟結構性的問題那尤其是涉及人權的議題那我們就是做一個評估那後續其實就可以透過跟民間團體的合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9462.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9478.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
以及教育民眾讓民眾知道有這些人權議題然後並且取得共識這樣的方式它算是比較柔性的職權但是透過不斷的倡議跟不斷的努力那其實還是可以幫國家做很多的這個改革的業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9479.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9493.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
我想執行長就差不多了這個之前大概已經講了很多次了因為我們還是要回到我們這一幕來討論一點點補充一點點補充就是剛剛其實昭志委員講的是說各部會也都有做人權 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9494.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9522.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
那可是各部會是要做的是執行面的部分那國家人權委員會是在一個高度去看各個部會他們執行人權的一個狀況所以它真的是一個是可以事前預防事後還可以做到監督的一個這樣子的一個人權機構所以跟各部會並沒有跌床駕屋的狀況其實各部會是做人權的執行面這樣子以上各部會沒做好就大家各監督啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9523.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9543.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
我想針對這個議題我們就要討論到這邊因為有關於國家人權委員會的這個執掌還有他的做法就大家本來就有不同的意見其實各個部會本來也就有提出很多人權的計畫政策的面也不是只是國家人權委員會的事情好那我們還是回歸到就是說是剛剛針對36案36案還有沒有什麼要說明的有 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9546.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9574.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
秘書處說明跟陳委員說明一下委員您36萬的103萬4千元那個不是在古蹟區它不在古蹟區因為監察院的建築分成國定古蹟區跟非古蹟區那國定古蹟區的部分我每年編的都是專案工程它並不是例行性的維護那就是您所提的37案國定古蹟區今年只有編我們將近40年的消防設備 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9575.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9578.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
這個施工費它不是設計規劃它是整個施工還有二樓古蹟區的空調老舊空調的汰換成一級變貧的那只有這個是在國定古蹟區那103萬36案的103萬4千元這個部分是 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9591.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9613.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
我們目前辦公大樓飛鼓機區它的地下室的通風排風因為那個是車庫那整個抽風機是壞掉的那另外呢因為要配合消防的建築所以我從地下室到八樓所有空調空調通風管我必須要做一個防火閘門也就是溫度一旦 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9613.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9625.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
有火警那那個溫度過高的時候它的閘門會自動關閉那關閉的話所有的煙就不會透過空調的風管竄到各辦公室主要是這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9627.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9651.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
是我想我想先容我這邊說幾句話因為其實監察院我過去就是最近也曾經有去過確實監察院很多的建築物裡面的設備是老舊那麼因為這個部分的話跟涉及到就是未來這個監察院他的建築體的維護是想說如果說招職委員這裡可以通融的話那麼可以希望能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9653.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9674.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
讓這筆費用能夠少減一些或是說就我其實就是說想聽他們就是公開說明啦尤其是那個古蹟維護的部分那這個整體計畫那這樣可以嗎你們就說有一些整體有關古蹟的部分你這整體的計畫或是規劃你做個書面報告給我們好嗎那我們如果說你同意我們就改成主決議啊好好好 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9677.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9688.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
好 謝謝趙執委員這個對於就是維護國家的古蹟的區域維護還是有這個必要性那麼所以我們第36案我們就改成主決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9693.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9711.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
那這樣的話就改組決議內容再加書面報告那就請你們監察院將修正提案將提案再做一些修正然後改成組決議然後加書面報告然後再給委員簽名那第37案第38案因為已經也都通過了我們就也改成組決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9713.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9714.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
我們請秘書說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9736.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9753.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
像委員說明113年114年確實消防工程我們只有編100萬那因為消防工程整體的從規劃設計到施工它一定是跨年度的那會有所謂的35倍是誤解因為之前的100萬是規劃設計費用是逐年編列的規劃設計費用那今年到明年的這個3600萬是整個所有的工程費 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9763.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9787.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
它不是設計規劃費怎麼會有三千五百的工程費?全部全部就是國定古蹟區跟飛古蹟區所有的消防工程施工費整個工程費是三千五百萬就是汰換整個更新我也是提供這個機會讓你們公開說明這樣大家了解我們就改成主決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9794.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9804.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
好的 那麼現在我們就針對第六目一般建築及設備提案案號第36案到第38案的審查結果進行宣告那麼第36 37 38案都改為主決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9809.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9821.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
那麼接下來我還要先回到原來第五目我再補充一個宣告就第五目保留的提案第26案到29案第32案到第35案均以原案保留那我們就現在繼續處理第六款第一項監察院的主決議提案案號是第39案到第53案 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9837.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9862.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
那現場有委員要補充說明嗎好 那麻煩范雲委員沒有好 我快速問我是47案 48案47案就是我之前質詢也有提到就是關於兒童監察使的部分那這部分希望你們可以研議那48案就是就是國際審查中已經多次講我們有國家人權委員會組織法可是一直缺乏那個職權行使法那也希望你們可以研議以上 謝謝好 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9864.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9883.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
好那其他委員如果沒有這個再要說明的話那麼我想就是監察院也不需要再說明了因為都已經溝通完畢了好那我們就直接宣告那麼主決議是提案案號第39案到第53案審查結果就照案通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9885.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9894.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
那趙漢通過的總共有39案、40案、41、42、43、44、45、46、47、48、50、51、52、53案那第49案的話是修正文字通過修正通過好 那麼我們第六款第一項監察院的部分就處理完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9910.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9933.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
那麼本日的議程討論事項都已經處理完畢了那本席做以下的宣告那115年度中央政府總預算案關於監察院主管不含審計部及所屬收支部分審查完略提報院會院會討論之前還必須要交黨團協商院會討論時由翁昭吉委員小林來說明請監察院把36案改讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9937.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9947.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
麻煩請監察院將36案改成主決議的部分儘速提出修正案到主席台 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9952.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9973.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
那本日討論的事項通過修正的預算提案經過機關將修正內容經提案委員簽名同意後送交主席台並列入公報記錄那通過的決議依例文字授權主席及議事人員整理本日會議議程所列的事項均已處理完畢5月27號星期三上午9點繼續開會那繼續審查115年度法務部及所屬等預算案 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9980.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9991.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
至於就是立法院的預算提案的話是在明天明天中午12點之前要送到市委會秘書處好那麼我們就現在休息謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10012.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10012.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
主席 |