| IVOD_ID |
17461 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17461 |
| 日期 |
2026-05-25 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
聯席會議-11-5-20,35-1 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期財政、外交及國防委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[1] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[1] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期財政、外交及國防委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2026-05-25T08:33:32+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-05-25T11:47:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:13:28 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/b41997f390c3528eb28ae05505236aa78588c3ebf0dc59bf601341028818003d8f888c1101554f965ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-05-25T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期財政、外交及國防委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查行政院函請審議「115年度中央政府保衛國家安全及強化不對稱戰力計畫採購特別預算案」案。(詢答及處理)【5月25日、5月27日及5月28日三天一次會】【預算提案截止時間：5月25日(星期一)下午4時】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:33:32 - 11:47:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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好 我們請主任秘書報告出席委員人數報告委員會出席委員與主法定人數好 我們現在開始開會請議事人員宣讀今天的議程 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1620.919 |
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1638.089 |
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報告事項115年5月15日立法院黨團協商結論決定事項列議二5月20日星期三下午2時30分邀請行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國防部長及相關部會首長列席報告特別預算案編制經過並備諮詢議案詢答完畢後即交審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1643.271 |
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1661.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
各黨團同意不提出復議本院議事初一百一十五年五月二十一日函為請本會會同有關委員會審查一百一十五年度中央政府保衛國家安全及強化對稱戰力計劃採購特別預算案經提本院第十一屆第五會期第十次會議報告後決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1663.826 |
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1691.837 |
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115年度中央政府保衛國家安全及強化不對稱戰力計劃採購特別預算案交財政委員會會同有關委員會審查討論事項審查行政院函清審議115年度中央政府保衛國家安全及強化不對稱戰力計劃採購特別預算案詢答及處理宣讀完畢好由我來介紹我們現場在現場的委員第一位林德福委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1696.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1705.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
吳秉瑞委員吳秉瑞召委我們今天來現場的官員有我們行政院主席總處的主席長陳淑芝主席長 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1706.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1731.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
以及我們公務預算處許處長歡迎您我們財政部莊翠雲莊部長歡迎您我們國庫署陳署長歡迎您我們賦稅署宋署長歡迎您我們公務署彭署長歡迎您我們國有財產署曾署長歡迎您我們財政資訊中心的張主任歡迎您 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1733.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1736.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
我們國防部部長顧立雄顧部長歡迎您好本次會議由財政外交國防委員會聯席我們今天安排的審查的是行政院函請審議一百一十五年度中央政府保衛國家安全及強化不對稱戰力計劃採購的特別預算案 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1756.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1766.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
現在將依序請下列相關部會首長就特別預算內容進行報告跟說明第一位我請我們行政院主計總處陳主席長進行預算內容報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1777.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1792.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
主席、各位委員、女士、先生今天應邀列席聯席會議就《中華民國115年中央政府保衛國家安全及強化不對稱戰利計劃採購特別預算案的編列情形》提出報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1793.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1804.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
自感榮幸當前敵情威脅日益援軍為確保國家安全維護台海和平穩定建構堅實防衛韌性我國急需強化不對稱戰力加速籌貨武器和設備行政院員提出強化防衛韌性及不對稱戰力計劃採購特別條例草案送請大會來審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1817.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1828.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
執行大會併案審查後於本115年5月8日審議修正通過平成修正為保衛國家安全及強化不對稱戰力計劃採購特別條例採購的範圍以軍購預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1833.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1860.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
項目違憲經費上限由1.25兆元修正為7800億元並奉總統於本年5月11日公佈本條例第6條規定經費上限7800億元包含第一批花價書預算上限3000億元以及第二批花價書預算上限4800億元以特別預算方式編列其預算編制不受預算法第23條之規定限制 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1863.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1889.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
會經立法院同意不得相互流用前項採購採一年一期方式編列期滿後後續預算及期成經立法院同意後分期辦理預算籌編及審議預算應與本條例通過一個月內就第一批發酵素預算案向立法院提出專案報告並被質詢請同意後使得籌措預算案第二批發酵素預算案異同 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1890.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1896.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
手续经费的来源得以用以前年度税金剩余或举借债务方式办理 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1898.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
1924.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
以特別預算方式編列的每一年舉借債務額度不受公債法第五條第七項規定的限制中央政府總預算及特別預算於本條例施行期間之舉債額度合計數不得超過該期間總預算及特別預算稅出總額合計數的15%本條例施行期間中央政府舉借的一年以上公債務未償餘額預算數應依公債法第五條第一項規定辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
1928.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
1934.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
國防部以本條例規定提報第一批採購項目總經費2,949億9,097萬6千元編制完成115年中央政府保衛國家安全及強化不退稱戰力計劃採購特別預算案主要內容一 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
1948.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
1963.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
稅出編列第一批部份項目經費88億1257萬1千元正式別全數為國防支出列於國防部項下那按採購項目編列情形簡要說明如下一 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
1964.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
1970.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
M-19A7自走炮39億2449萬6千元二海馬士多管火箭揮彈系統27億9938億7千元三反甲型無人飛機揮彈系統17億9501萬1千元四標板仿裝甲揮彈系統1億6298億7千元四無托士2B反裝甲揮彈系統及戰備存糧補充1億3069萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
1993.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2013.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
以上稅出經費所需財源881,257萬1千元全數以舉借債務支應以上報告敬請主席及各位委員女士先生會議指教並鼎力支持謝謝謝謝主計長的報告跟說明接下來請第二位我們財政部長莊部長進行預算內容報告說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2023.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2033.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
主席各位委員先進大家早今天聯席會議審查中華民國115年度中央政府保衛國家安全及強化不對稱戰力計劃採購特別預算案 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2035.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2056.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
以下僅就裁員籌措情形做簡要的報告根據保衛國家安全及強化不對稱戰力計畫的採購特別條例第六條的規定第五條第一項第一款到第五款項目的第一批發價書預算上限為新台幣三千億元第六款項目應等到取得 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2056.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2076.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
美國政府正式同意授予後依據第二批發價書核實編列預算案其預算上限為4800億元以特別預算的方式來編列採購是以一年一期方式編列期滿後後續預算及期成經大院同意後分期辦理預算籌編及審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2079.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2090.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
本條例所需的經費來源得以一用以前年度的稅計剩餘或舉借債務來支應本期不對稱佔立特別預算案的總經費編列88億元實行期間是115年度裁員的規劃全屬於舉借債務來支應依本條例第6條的規定每年度 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2101.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2112.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
債務舉借數不受公債法第五條第七項規定的限制但需控管本條例施行期間中央政府總預算及特別預算舉債額度的合計數不得超過該期間總預算及特別預算稅出總額合計數的15% |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2119.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2132.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
而且中央政府所舉借一年以上的公共債務未償餘額的預算數必須要符合公債法第五條第一項規定不得超過前三年度明目GDP平均數的40.6% |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2136.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2159.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
有關災務的管控情形第一個本條例從115年度推動執行並繼115年度中央政府總預算案新式戰機採購海空戰力提升計畫採購丹納斯颱風及728豪雨災後復原重建因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性花蓮馬太安溪煙射湖災後重建不對稱戰力等 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2161.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2183.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
特别预算案的举债合计数占该期间税出预算总额合计数是12.7%低于15%的规定上限第二个截至115年4月底中央政府长期债务余额的实际数是5.9929亿元占前三年度明目GDP的平均数是23% |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2185.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2201.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
至於一百一十五年底長期債務餘額的預算數是根據公債法第五條的規定按照一百一四年底中央政府長期債務餘額的決算數六兆零七百三十億元加計以前年度特別預算債務舉借預算數以分配 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2204.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2208.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
而還沒有執行的數目以及115年度預計的債務舉借數並且扣除債務償還數以後預估115年底中央政府長期債務餘額是6,8673億元佔前三年度明目GDP平均數是26.4%距離公債法所規定的債務存量上限40.6%還有14.2% |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2232.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2253.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
為財政永續以支援國家長遠的發展本部將依本條例公共債務法以及財政紀律法相關的規定根據落實債務的管控兼顧財政穩健與國家安全以因應涉經情勢的變化及重大政務所需以上報告敬請各位委員會議支持與指教謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2255.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2262.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
謝謝我們張部長的報告跟說明接下來我們請國防部部長顧部長進行預算內容報告說明主席 各位委員先進今日赴大院聯席委員會實施保衛國家安全及強化不對稱戰力 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2282.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2293.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
計劃採購特別預算編制概要報告,敬請各位委員先行指教在特別預算編制概要部分以保衛國家安全及強化不正 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2295.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2306.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
整體計畫採購特別條例第五條第一項第一至五款所定第一批項目總金額為新台幣2,949億9,097萬6千元115年辦理武器裝備購置整體後勤支援工程設施及採購作業費 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2316.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2334.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
共計編列八十八億一千兩百五十七萬一千元個案編制內容重點說明如後在M109A7自由泡部分規劃一百一十五至一百二十一年執行總經費是八百零六一六千五百七十二萬九千元一百一十五年 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2334.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2339.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
編列39億2449萬6千元海馬士多感火箭飛彈系統規劃115至121年執行總經費是1597億1403萬4千元那115年編列27億9938萬7千元反甲型無人機飛彈系統規劃115至121年執行總經費是330億 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2362.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2382.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
八千四百二十九萬兩千元一百一十五年編列十七億九千五百零一萬一千元脫市二批反裝甲飛彈戰備存量補充規劃一百一十五至一百一十八年執行總經費五十五億七千四百二十一萬四千元一百一十五年編列六千兩百六十六萬一千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2383.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2384.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
脫勢2B反裝甲飛彈系統規劃115至120年執行總金費60億2,636萬2千元115年編列6,802萬9千元標槍反裝甲飛彈系統規劃115至120年執行總金費99億2,634萬5千元115年編列1億6,298萬7千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2412.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2441.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
在計畫編列必要性部分,本次規劃採購海馬士多管火箭飛彈系統、反甲型無人機飛彈系統、標槍及托司2B反裝甲飛彈與過去五年對美軍購暗箱中均有納入籌貨為因應中共江蘇沿海發展策略,持續列裝新式戰機籌貨增打一體無人機、艦船與競爭飛彈等現代化武器系統提升隊友發動聯合來火力打擊、航渡、登陸等作戰有利態勢 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2442.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2455.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
使得原籌購資數量不足以應付反登陸作戰需求必須增購另外M109A7自走砲音具備GPS定位自動化設計指揮數位化指管期30公里以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2455.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2470.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
精準打擊等能力參照俄烏戰爭經驗第一面精準火力可打擊敵指揮所後勤設施通訊指管等作戰中心創造有力戰局因此向美籌購在計劃籌購的連戰效能部分呢檢視共軍戰術戰法以從灘頭突襲 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2475.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2486.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
轉變為海空立體快節奏奪島模式企圖奪取台海制空權削弱我軍防空量能及台灣我軍指揮管制續發動聯合三期進化作戰行動以達奪戰本島企圖以下從國軍執行整理防空及飛彈防疫聯合反登陸及聯合國土防衛三個階段之聯合作戰效能實施說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2498.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2524.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
在整體防空及飛彈防禦階段本次海馬式多管火箭飛彈系統可對300公里內的各式飛彈發射載台實施深遠打擊任務壓制共軍聯合火力打擊委託人獲得自製強攻中程反彈道飛彈系統各型反彈道防空飛彈及軟硬砂混合無人機反制系統可以現有的愛國者天宮與短程區域防空系統搭配AI輔助 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2524.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2536.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
決策系統形成更有效之權防衛防空佛王聯合反登陸部分聯合反登陸階段國軍應用聯合指管通知網請監偵與AI輔助決策系統實施分析請傳導引各式 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2542.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2561.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
精準飛彈、火砲與冰海攻擊型無人機等對敵登陸數據實施攻擊貫徹多域拒止,從成削弱之目標海馬斯多感火箭飛彈系統級M109A7制火砲可協力反艦飛彈對冰海制坍艦間敵各類高架子目標實施快速精準火力打擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2563.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2582.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
為若能獲得2N2型海獸戰術型無人機、垂直起降無人機及濱海艦艇型無人機將更有效快速識別敵船團指向並指引各式精準飛彈、小型自殺無人艇及濱海攻擊無人機對敵船團實施攻擊發揮早期預警、快速打擊效果與形成不對稱戰力 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2583.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2604.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
在聯合國土防衛階段,國軍部署大量艦載無人機掌握敵軍主力指向同步建置AI輔助決策系統、部隊決制應用套件及台灣戰術網路快速研判敵可能行動並建立共同圖像、加速擊殺鏈應用各式金融火力、反專甲飛彈與攻擊型無人機配合機動主角 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2605.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2624.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
重層削弱抵近戰力令作戰全程可運用可稀釋無人機反制系統反制共軍一二級無人機攻擊本次籌購之海馬士多管火箭飛彈系統M109AC自走炮可提供作戰區精準火力支援令標槍托式2B船裝甲飛彈及反甲型無人機飛彈系統可精準打擊敵戰車及裝甲戰艦為若能獲得大量艱深型攻擊型無人機AI輔助決策系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2632.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2644.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
部隊絕技應用套件及團戰式網路可稀釋無人機反制系統將提升其增級達於持久削弱作戰能力同時確保部隊安全中上所述MV-109、A7-128等五類裝備可適度提升聯合作戰效能 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2648.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2667.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
違弱要形成全方位防空火網、台灣之盾、不推正防衛戰力及強化持久削弱作戰能力等三要素,需同步建置指管決策、權益增資、無人與反制系統、中程反彈道陪戰及防衛韌性相關之各式彈藥及裝備生產線擴建軍備產能,方可優化不對稱戰力及防衛韌性,保衛國家安全。 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2672.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2690.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
你們要動的AC制補包、海馬斯多管、火箭飛彈系統、反甲型無人機飛彈系統、標槍反彈甲飛彈及托士2B反彈甲飛彈均以獲得美方發達書,建請大院統一編列本次預算,使官兵擁有完整戰力,保護國家安全。以上報告進行各位委員先進會議指教。謝謝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2692.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2693.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
今天上午十點半 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2713.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2728.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
截止發言登記但是今天因為高鐵有點問題所以如果有中南部搭高鐵上來的同仁需要登記我們另外再做另外的處理好現在依登記的順序請登記第一位的林德福委員開始質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2746.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2751.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
謝謝主席是不是請陳主席長還有莊部長還有顧部長好 請主席長 莊部長 顧部長委員好你好 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2763.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2785.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
我想我就開始賴總統昨天的花言又讓外界誤解因為賴總統昨天喊出說家庭主婦每個月至少零五千元外界以為是新設立的今天但是總統府新聞稿隨後指出提高國民年金給予每個人每個月五千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2787.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2808.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
統計到一一四年十二月二十五歲以上未滿六十五歲繳納國民年金的差不多有兩百八十四萬人外界以為賴總統對外所稱的家庭主婦是這群人可以每月零五千元要是這樣的話預算的出估每個月差不多要一百四十二億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2809.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2827.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
然而總統府新聞稿是指目前領取國民年金、老年年金以及老年基本保證年金65歲以上請領人數差不多188萬人那國民年金每月領取差不多4049元、4049元若未來修法每個月幾乎5000元 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2833.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2840.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
每個月要支付94億元預算是增加差不多20億元主計總數是編列預算財政部是負責籌措裁員因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2850.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2865.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
賴總統這樣輕率的花言讓外界誤以為只要是家庭主婦就能每月領取五千元那個主計總署跟財政部你們對國民年金預算編列以財源的籌措是不是可以說明一下以減少啊外界的誤會簡單而要來 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2869.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2885.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
這個部分包括我們六大社福那我們預計大概是7月1號開始要辦理一個新的一個調整那這個調整的部分呢就是譬如說六大社福調整多少我們國民年金也跟著調 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
2886.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
2896.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
那跟文憑年資金調到每個人由每月的4049條到5000元那增幅也差不多23.5%增幅增加的幅度是23.5%那半年的部分需要84.9%那以後116年度就全年度的因為這是搭配 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
2911.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
2933.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
六大社會的調整然後也跟著一起調整是這樣主計長還有莊部長其實像這些你要發言以前一定要很精準不是講了以後再來做修飾修正我認為增加是可以但是因為你們是行政系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
2935.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
2958.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
當然賴總統他是負責國安外交兩岸事務那裡面一些內政的問題你要提預算增加其實一定要跟行政單位要多了解多互動才能夠很精準的來做做闡述做說明跟大家講不應該這樣任意的花言我是希望你們一定要去要求那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
2959.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
2984.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
今天是討論軍購預算但全民也關心零到十八歲的全程支持計畫每人每月零五千元的成長津貼外界好奇是以年度預算編列還是要用特別預算來處理主計長我們預計以年度預算來編列因為你要是以特別預算因為特別預算對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
2987.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3001.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
不一定隨時就是會因為你要看整個國家的財政講實在話如果一個政策至少要推動18年以上北京認為應該要以年度預算處理是比較適當較為妥適特別預算來 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3006.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3020.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
預算制度的彈性補救的措施不宜常態化作為預算擴增的方式所以說財政部你認不認同應該是要以固定的年度預算來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3021.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3033.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
我想這個部分當然是尊重土地重處那用公務預算來支應對啦 絕對不能任意啦我希望好好的來處理這個問題那個副部長因為2026年1月F16戰機於花蓮外海失事 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3040.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3068.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
來墜毀那揮官到現在還沒有尋獲今年3月打撈到F16的黑盒子顧部長在立法院答詢時說大約要花一個月的時間來判讀那我請問顧部長美方是我已完成黑盒子的解讀到底F16失事的原因為何報告委員這個黑盒子的部分還沒有解答出來但是它的上面的一個飛行紀錄器的部分已經解出來了那目前在做實施調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3069.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3094.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
要積極一點 如何避免類似情況再次發生請顧部長說明目前國內的F16戰機的加裝自動防撞系統完成的數量 目前呢這個在今年的時候 在今年7月份軟體會上機在9月份之後 我們硬體的部分就會逐步逐步來到位你到底是2027年會整個加裝完成還是2028 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3097.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3101.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
前案結束的話是在117年117是換句話就是今年東西就會到貨 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3104.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3133.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
我是認為因為我們給的錢那還是要積極啦因為上週每個委員都收到包括這個主計總處提供的書面報告說明115年度中央政府總預算截至第一季的執行情形第三頁內容提到中央政府新式的戰機採購特別預算執行情形部分裝備未能如期交運沒有辦法按 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3134.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3143.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
預定的期程來撥款所至那主計總數的資料寫得輕描淡寫但計畫從109年到現在已經給了1529億元出去66家F16V一家都還沒有交付 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3152.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3180.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
那民眾對於美國軍購交貨的能力有所質疑因為我們是代表人民不是沒有道理啦這個議題我相信顧部長已經回答過很多遍了但本席還是希望國防部虛心的要檢討期待本次特別預算整個軍購項目每方都能如期的這個如質的來交貨以強化國安安全那個顧部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3181.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3197.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
你來做回應是,我們雙方會針對這個來成立專案辦公室那我們會用不管是會議的方式、駐場的方式然後我們會每月持續來掌握相關的進度然後每個會期也會跟大院來做報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3198.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3225.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
對啊 因為你最起碼讓大家知道尤其很多民眾都很關心我們希望立法院我們給錢我們代表人民但是一定要好好的去監督控管他整個時程那也希望能夠如期的進來我就不耽誤大家時間 謝謝好 謝謝委員好 謝謝我們結束林德福委員的質詢接下來請吳品瑞委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3235.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3238.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
主席麻煩請國防部顧部長請顧部長海馬市的這個系統之前的新聞有說到說怕因為已經那個時辰會不會來不及 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3261.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3280.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
所以之前有先是不是美國那邊已經有先幫我們墊了有沒有這樣的問題跟委員報告就是5月31號以前要付首期款那現在因為預算案已經經由行政院送到立法院了那就可以依照預算法的84條 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3281.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3304.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
那我們根據84條請求行政院核定同意我們可以來先行致用所以行政院我想預計會在5月31號以前會給我們核定先行致用那我們就可以先行付給這個美方所以這沒有問題 這個問題可以解決啦我們應該可以掌握這個期程如果本院沒有刁難的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3306.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3329.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
這個由行政院核定 因為現在案子已經送到立法院那現在也已經互違我想行政院核定 依照預算法84條應該可以來執行好 那這一次的本來的大計畫是8年一兆2500億的這個規模嘛那在審查預算的時候被藍白立委他們多數就會把你硬 深深砍成8700億嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3331.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3357.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
那中間這個差的是差商購跟差我們要自主研發投資的這部分嗎如果在暗箱的部分大致上來講就是說我們有包括職管決策的部分包括權益政治的部分也包括行為韌性的部分然後那個打擊的部分就少了那個委制給中科研的那個強攻的那個部分那另外我們一個台美共同研發去採購 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3359.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3387.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
這個部分也相當的重要所以這幾塊的部分我們想辦法要來補足那補足的方式大致上我們會來檢視我們現在公安部正在進行檢討說各個案項的項目那有些項目我們可能會要擺到明年就是我們現在開始編列明年的總預算雖然今年的總預算還在審但我們現在已經要開始編列明年的總預算所以我們要提出來有些可能要放進去 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3387.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3406.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
那有些可能跟主席總書商量可能可以列入一個追加預算案那另外有沒有要提特別條例這個還要看跟行政院討論的結果這樣所以能夠達到我們台灣保衛自己對抗中共這個侵略這樣子的目的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3409.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3435.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
我剛剛在這個報告裡面,事實上也有提到的就是說我們這些相關的,包括海馬,是包括喵東的A7還有標槍托士跟這個反專甲的無人機這個部分是可以提升我們的聯合作戰的能力但是我們要全面的整體的,因為我們當時在提出一照2500億的時候就是要求要全體的,全面的提升這個整體 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3437.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3459.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
連戰能力的這個能力,這個包括整體防空作戰能力,包括聯合反登陸,包括這個地面作戰的部分,那現在有一些部分如果缺乏的話,沒有辦法完成能夠完全能夠提升我們的連戰的能力的話,那這個部分我們想辦法會來補足,譬如說我們有一直講到我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3460.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3467.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
這個無人機的部分那無人機的部分有兩塊一塊是監偵的因為他不斷的去監偵才可以提供回傳這個相關的資訊來建構我們的這個擊殺鏈那我們現在無人機要進行這個遂行這個攻擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3476.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3493.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
在從對戰作戰的概念來講大量大量的無人機在這個不斷的來進行攻在濱海的這個乃至於到反登陸乃至於到地面作戰不斷的用這種具有這個成本效益的無人機來進行攻擊對我們來講是很重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3493.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3508.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
那更重要的就是說無人機如果能夠產生自主的產業鏈的話就能夠形成國防自主因為俄烏戰爭的經驗告訴我們如果我們無人機不能夠在地自主生產就是說從關鍵的組件到整機的系統整合然後到 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3509.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3531.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
完成的話我們都要仰賴外面的這個供應的話我們這個自主能力沒有辦法做到的話我們的這個韌性會大大消耗所以烏克蘭就做到了那烏克蘭的這個經驗告訴我們我們也要能夠做到我們特別是我們是一個海島的國家還不像烏克蘭它跟其他國家有陸地的接壤這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3532.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3555.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
你的說明很清楚啦但是我看到這幾天有個別的立法委員為了要推卸他刪除這個無人機發展這一些造成台灣困難所以編了另外一個理由說這無人機的產業都是綠油油啦這個都是民進黨想要貪污啦所以我是覺得他們在跟你發動政治抹黑跟攻擊攻擊這個產業 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3557.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3584.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
整個產業發展的這一群人而且這一群人很大群在台灣有幾百家廠商他全部都跟你說這是綠油油你這個怎麼樣子能夠讓國人知道說不是像他們講的這樣這是有目的的政治攻擊這是想要妨礙台灣的無人機產業的發展這對台灣整體防衛抵抗中共的侵略是有非常大的妨礙這是你們國防部要盡到的一個很大的責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3585.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3603.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
是 謝謝文哲我想無人機的部分我們現在不管要做跟這些民間廠商要做什麼樣的一個鏈接合作最重要的都是要有目的就是要提升他們的專業的一個技能他們本應該是有一定的專業然後再藉由我們的廠商供應來提升他們的專業技能這樣子整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3605.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3623.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
而且無人機的發展有一個特性就是它不斷地會迭代創新比如說今天的無人機到明天它要做怎麼樣子的一個更好的一個抗干擾更好的一個通訊的一個韌性的維護更好的自主導航更好的群峰的供給能力這些都很重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3624.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3652.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
那另外就是最重要的就是無人機的這個從關鍵組件到系統的整合相關兩三兩百多家以上的廠商是遍佈在全國各地的所以我想這個是整個關係到全國的這些每一個這麼多家的產業都建在裡面這個絕對不是只拿其中的一兩家說跟什麼來就來扣一個帽子最重要就是看他有沒有他的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3652.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3665.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
一個專業能力我想這個部分是我們所看重的好 加油這些工作都非常的重要請你充分的跟國務人說明讓我們大家能夠知道台灣團結一心抵抗這個外來的侵略謝謝好 謝謝委員謝謝我們結束吳秉瑞委員的質詢接下來請賴世寶委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3681.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3689.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
謝謝主席 一起各先進有請國防部的顧部長財政部的莊部長主席整組的陳主席長莊部長 陳主席長 謝謝您是 賴委員好部長請問啊140億第二期我們的特別條例140億美金的軍購確定沒有了嗎我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3709.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3737.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
根據五角大廈發言人他的一個回應,他講得很清楚就是說我引用一下他所講的,他說如同所有習慣能夠承擔的軍售跟安全協助事務跟相關細節,待總統做出最終決定那我們對台的事務政策沒有改變美國持續遵循台灣關係法相關的長久承諾所以你的意思就是外定啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3738.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3763.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
還沒有確定說要還是不要你們有看到他們回覆說對台的事務政策沒有改變美國將持續遵循台灣關係法相關的長久承諾川習會之後你們有沒有透過管道跟武甲大廈那邊取得聯絡我想我們都持續的在跟美國都有聯絡嘛戰爭部都有持續相關的聯絡所以這個案子還沒有死掉是不是這個意思我們審慎樂觀 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3766.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3776.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
審慎樂觀什麼時候會知道答案我沒有辦法完全能夠掌握說什麼時候能夠做成決定但是對台政策沒有改變的這有兩個意涵一個應該可以知道答案嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3780.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3806.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
我沒有辦法在這邊對這個委員做出什麼樣的承諾現在大家期待說因為川普說要跟Main人民台灣跟賴清德總統通電話現在電話也沒有通然後呢到目前為止發價書一直不給所以是雙數然後現在我們就要省這個一百一十億美金的軍購什麼時候開始交活 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3807.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3826.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
我們關於交貨的期程就每個案項是不一樣的最快什麼時候如果你要問具體的話不要具體 你要告訴我最快明年開始交貨吧 應該有吧沒有 要明年有一項 沒有 後年有吧相關最快的要從有的是從一百 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3829.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3846.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
117 117嘛 那就是後年嘛最快是後年嘛來 但是我們現在極限的給 欠我們的很多跟你舉幾個例子啦第一個 我們向美國買的PPS-77PPS-78 雷達2024就有發價了 所有的到現在為止沒有交貨再來 人稀釋啊 人來扛的 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3855.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3865.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
刺針飛彈已經經過十年到現在為止一顆彈也沒有交X16V不用講了今年絕對不可能交齊 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3874.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
3888.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
來 快點喔 快點喔喂 大家好 我是空軍常務長那個 關於雷達的部分其實這個資訊有點落差我們在前面兩次交了沒有嘛 你問我交了沒有我們都沒有付錢都沒有付錢 但沒有交現在還沒有完成預約所以我們的錢都還沒開始付但是發價書給囉發價書給了發價書給囉發價書已經簽好 那人稀釋 人稀釋的私生飛彈勒 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
3895.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
3911.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
報告委員 仁溪市次增飛彈第一批我們106元簽的那178套500枚會在今年第四季交運今年第四季 到現在 但是到現在為止一顆彈也沒有來 我們補償 F16V 今年不可能交期吧補償今年九月會開始交機開始交機 但是今年不可能交期嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
3918.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
3923.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
法委員如果說到這個年底沒辦法完全交接的話在預算面向我們會辦理保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
3947.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
3973.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
這個要那個啦來這個我要問一下這個財政部長啊我們這次的財政部預算是不是全數舉債是不是這88億是舉債全部舉債嗎88億舉債對好那個主席長啊是那個顧部長可以回去了顧部長可以回去了是主席長是 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
3975.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
3980.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
政府要花五千塊 大家五花一的不是這樣子啦 是國民年金 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
3988.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4006.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
國民年金把它加碼到五千塊我們有的人一提案就加到六千啦有的人就加到八千啦差有夠多啦大家以為普發現金五千塊懷疑還要死啊請問即便是國民年金要修法喔要花多少錢你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4008.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4028.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
四千到五千 現在你四千塊 多一點 要增加到五千 增加一千左右現在如果由四千調到五千 大概每個月會增加十四億那半年會增加八十四億 這個調整 那一年就是一百七十八億一年就是一百七十八億啦 這個錢怎麼來 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4031.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4056.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
這個部分我們就納入年度預算還有115年如果從7月1號開始執行那我們會納入追加減預算年度預算啊 那我再問主席長那個郭部長一起再上來好不好那部長請上來上來一下我請問主席長行政院長說今年明年要提調高4%針對軍公教 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4059.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4064.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
有沒有算過確定了嗎?是不是確定了?主席長,確定了嗎?確定了嗎?他說最少4%最好6%什麼時候會確認? |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4078.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4104.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
這個要問人總比較確定因為人總他在研擬的各方案當中他有很多種譬如說百分之幾百分之幾的調整所以這個部分人總都已經有跟院長來做報告也有跟相關單位討論我們希望趕快確定因為軍公教現在同後棚都這麼嚴重軍公教需要調心來 郭部長最後一件事情請問你 郭部長現在來講的話本門 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4108.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4131.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
現在沒有了4700億你準備要再提特別預算嗎還是說我們就年度預算盡力增加我們就有可能剛剛已經有跟委員報告了三種可能第一個就是我們有些項目會擺到年度預算有些我們可能辦理最佳預算那有些我們是不是要提特別條例我們還要聽行政院的指導不要再提特別條例了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4132.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4161.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
這個已經審過了你提最佳預算提年度預算比較容易爭取到在黑黨的支持上次我原在院會的時候好像也提到說有一個無人機產業特別條例是不是可以啊 那個你們可以提啊但是這個不要特別條例啊這個當然也都要研議啦 這個都要研議這個年度預算啦 我就跟你講財政部莊部長就很清楚按照現在股市的成交量今年最少增交稅增加5000億起跳 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4162.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4189.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
所以你明年度的國防預算可以多一點你們好像變得比較少 變7000多億國防部的預算今年是5614今年9000多億啊不是不是 那個算法國防部的預算就是5614那個您講的有包括 因為我們按北約的話有包括海巡 包括退伍費的然後還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4190.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4218.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
過去的特別條例有幾個特別條例就不是有一個兩年的韌性的特別條例還有一個那個海風戰力體徵特別條例還有一個F16V的特別條例然後還有預估金這一次的特別預算所以明年度的就期限多一年度啊只有現在這幾個案子嘛所以只有編八十八個跟我們原來預估的要差不多明年度的國防預算就期限多一這樣對吧明年度 明年度對 明年度你說金 你要編明年度的我講明年度 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4220.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4231.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
鮑委員我足跡長在這裡我還沒有跟他我們已經對媒體講了幾千多億啊沒有沒有我們還沒討論啊還沒討論這個訊息已經出來了沒有這個沒有沒有好OK謝謝好謝謝我們結束任市長委員的質詢接下來請陳玉珍委員謝謝主席請問顧部長部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4256.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4269.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
市政委員部長好 辛苦了 首先在這裡先向您表示感謝星期六我們進入國中九年級的畢業生因為金門大霧滯留國防部門相很幫忙六聯隊幫忙輸運我們金門的 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4274.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4288.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
國中畢業生回金門非常感謝所以我要跟你們表示我在金門長大跟軍人一起長大所以軍愛民 民進軍在金門是一個非常非常優良的傳統所以我們對 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4289.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4317.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
我本身對國防部的預算一向都非常非常的支持那尤其在去年年底的時候我們不是有通過這個幫軍人加薪這個部分嗎後來你們一直沒有編列嘛就是幫我們的這個國進弟兄加薪嘛然後這一次我們為了我們本來不審總預算後來我們決定審這個總預算因為我們在4月15的時候朝野有一個共識說要行政院在半年內提出軍人的待遇條例修正和保障措施那4月15到現在半年是10月15嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4318.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4336.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
現在已經又在編列116年度明年的預算了但是我們看到院長有說要把空間找出來怎麼幫軍人加薪那主計長說怎麼編列還沒有定案那到底軍人加薪這個部分你們到底是編還是不編 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4337.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4350.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
跟委員報告我想上次那個在做總預算互惠的時候已經有過一個決議嘛那這個決議就是說我們半年之內我們不但是要考慮到軍人也考慮到公教嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4351.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4371.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
我要特別請你思考你想想看部長我覺得你是非常偉大因為你本身是大律師那願意來擔任這個國防部長國防部長待遇上是非常低的平常如果以前你擔任律師一個case不用你就已經超過這樣的待遇超過這樣的收入了那你很願意為國來承擔這個重任那你想想看我們現在股票一直在漲我問了一下這個台積電的員工很基層的員工剛入職的員工年輕聽說就是200多萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4379.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4394.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
那我們軍人再加一點心你們就要考慮這個考慮那個我們要買這麼多武器這麼高科技的武器軍購案1.25兆國防部在編的時候眼睛都不會眨一下我不是說反對啊那在1.25兆中間或者以外我們這次過了7800億嘛還有好幾千億啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4400.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4420.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
你現在看好的武器就是要好的人才來操作一個連台積電的最基本的入職的員工可能大學畢業研究生畢業的電機系這一類的學生都有兩百多萬我們軍人這麼低的待遇你怎麼樣讓好的人才來為國家服務呢我覺得你要大刀闊斧你身為律師出身應該很有現代的觀念 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4422.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4438.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
幫軍人全面的制度化的改變嘛那好的人才可以為國所用嘛是不是跟委員報告齁第一個就是說有關軍公教的這個那你跟我討論軍人的部分就好了我知道我知道我先講一下有關軍公教整體條件的部分正在研議當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4439.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4463.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
那這個也包括就會涵蓋到軍人嘛這是第一點第二點就是說有關軍人的這個部分呢您剛剛也提到有很多軍人他有各項不同的一個家籍這樣的一個家籍他會延伸到說我們對於哪一些的人才我們要盡量把他留住所以在去年的時候那個調的就是用各項我們的家籍的部分比如說我們戰鬥部隊家籍部分就調得相當的高 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4465.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4494.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
所以接下來我們也已經在研議有關加擠的部分要如何再進一步精進然後進行進一步的調整那再結合金公教的調性的部分來提高這個軍人的待遇我先針對軍人部分來跟您請教第一個啦第一個軍人是要保家衛國嘛要站在第一線嘛要拋棄氣質啊很多軍人對我來講軍艦就像單輕一樣啊因為我可以充分的感受到嘛所以給他們很好的待遇是 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4495.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4508.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
不好意思說這是安家費嘛那你就應該你身為國防部長你來自民間你以前在金黃會也表現很好我們也有聽到嘛你是不是徹底的來想一下這個制度你像看1.25兆我們7800億還有好幾千億啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4511.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4535.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
是不是 國家並不是沒有錢啊這個幫軍人加薪 或者整個軍人待遇的調整也是國防預算的一部分啊對美國來講GDP要達到3% 5%多少幫軍人好的待遇也算是這個一部分不是只有買武器啊所以我希望你回去徹底的想這件事情不要說我們在野黨通過這個很不公平啊 那個多那個少你全面性的改嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4536.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4546.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
我看到科技業的這個員工待遇這麼高我就覺得你到底要什麼樣待遇才能吸引到人家真的願意為我國家賣命啊可不可以徹底的來想一下這個事情呢大刀闊斧呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4553.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4575.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
六月啦沒有我講你什麼時候給我答案咧一套真正好的制度大幅的增加嘛我們裡面讓國家來挑人不是讓都找不到人然後要拜託人家來當兵嘛大幅大幅的提高嘛跟委員報告現在就是說人總跟主席總害我們然後再加上行政院那我們等行政院定案之後就會對外投訴什麼時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4577.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4601.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
我不要那種小恩小惠的佳績啦這個要由院長來做最後的定奪好不好我希望你可以跟院長講好嗎好的武器就是需要好的人才你為什麼不抱著一個說我就是要跟台積電搶人才那種決心來幫軍人加薪呢是不是應該這樣做呢好不好你要編1.25兆買武器就可以編幾千億幫軍人加薪整個制度改變啦的確這才是一個好方法啊您不這樣認為嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4603.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4631.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
我想我們國安部立場一直不斷的持續不要這樣一點一點一點啦這樣你沒有辦法跟人家搶人才啦來 簡單的 因為時間很短我簡單的再講一件事情我們居門很多地方營區現在都用這個什麼屏風站起啦屏風站起那屏風站起整理以後後來屏風了以後現在就是屏風嘛問題是屏風沒有人去管理沒有管理部分國安部這部分可能要再加強這個可能請你給我一個報告因為以不給國家公會限制我們國安部都沒有預算啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4632.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4642.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
那就荒廢掉啊等到你要站起的時候他用不了啊都沒有用啊這個部分可不可以請你們那個你看一下我已經簡單的講了屏風站起沒有維護啊你們做表面巡查因為現在軍人也不多嘛廢棄物那裡都廢棄物而且變成一個防疫的破口啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4651.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4673.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
這個部長部長部長你有沒有在聽因為時間到了因為時間到了這個部分因為那一天問了我們國產署啊很多還是在國防部管轄範圍內啦很多營區 金門好多營區國家公衛整理了金門縣政府整理了但是他就變成因為沒有軍人嘛啊你們說屏風戰警我也理解這個意思但是我自己也去看了很多地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4675.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4692.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
沒有整理所以預算的部分我請他寫報告給我好不好部長好來像您報告跟允諾這個屬於我們產權屏風站起的我們都會定期去維護沒有啊我跟你講我上禮拜就去了好多我下學會從金房部那邊做個了解那如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4693.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4707.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
預算 預算 你們要編列相關的預算你們如果人不夠 居然現在沒有幾千個兵了如果人不夠 你們委託給金門縣政府做也可以 好嗎好 明顯的報告給我可以嗎我們後續要順便報告謝謝 我們結束陳玉珍委員的質詢接下來請賴會員委員再來請林黛華委員好 邀請郭部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4724.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4725.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
請部長好 針對這個國防預算的產業戰略支持國防預算是起點 落實本土產業是重點這是本席的重點那再直接跳到這邊來 這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4745.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4753.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
我們的專案管理的隱憂你們這筆預算2000多億的預算先低後高115年這起點編列不到總額的3%之後116年到121年是高峰那您如何確保如期如止 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4763.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4791.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
如預算的交貨呢本席會提出來是因為我們之前前幾年買的F16V戰鬥機66架防空魚雷防空系統共200億美金6700億台幣到現在都還沒有交貨我們現在馬上就已經要快要奉上兩將近3000億的預算那您怎麼確保它一定能夠如期如止如預算的交貨呢部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4792.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4819.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
現在主要雙方都會成立一個專案辦公室我們透過這個會議也好透過查場的相關的進度也好那麼透過針對哪些問題有問題我們跟美方做一個相關的一個資源的調配也好那來確保這個我們的相關的執行進度那這些相關的執行進度如果我們都會每個會期來跟大院做個報告這樣好 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4821.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4836.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
那在這邊呢希望不要再發生了這個6700億付出去到現在還沒交貨那現在呢你們的報告書裡面有很特別你買了這六項的武器那你們的都講到說 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4838.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4859.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
能獲 微弱能獲得如果呢我買了這些武器之外呢我如果呢能夠再獲得這個瑞鴛二型小型自殺無人艇才能發揮早期預警的不對稱戰力啦如果呢我買了這些戰力之後這些部隊這些武器之後呢也希望能夠復得TAK啦或TTN啦才能 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4861.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4881.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
提升這個集身擊打的能力啦或者你買了這些武器之後如果能夠獲得自製強攻中程反彈道飛彈系統等等這些無人機反制的系統搭配AI的輔助角色才能成為防火防所以本席對你這樣的報告我是認同的沒有本土研發的拼圖就無法形成全方位的火網 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4888.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4902.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
所以院警一本席認為無人機國家隊的落地藍圖就非常非常的重要了中南部基地有的就是機密機械加工工具區中南部有的是碳纖維複合的材料電機馬達 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4904.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4931.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
這個南部有的就是無人艇的產業線造船的產業當然再加上中北部的通訊資安跟AI的決策這驅動點就是中科院技術的發動機我們希望把關鍵的零件跟大批的量產線留在台灣打造一條龍的國家旗的國家隊那但是中科院產出的品質本息是非常高度的質疑我們字字的雲 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4932.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
4950.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
爆甲車 車高超過3公尺這在戰場上能夠掩護嗎那在瑞淵一行的缺點就是我們沒有辦法達到急增急達缺乏自主起降的能力需要人工的操作 本席在針對國軍 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
4951.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
4978.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
國軍無人機當中也在國防委員會提出質詢說這個無人機啊國軍的這個軍用無人機啊是不是關鍵零組件是自焦製品你們中科院院長說是喔我們訓練用的是用自焦製品喔但是訓練用的無人機難道不就是它的通訊指管系統難道不是正式的系統嗎這樣的系統從百公尺墜落下來是全部毀的這樣的系統是比無人機本身 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
4979.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
4983.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
還貴的所以這個中科院你又是一個驅動你發單你是一個技術的發單的發動機那今天你也講到說好我們買了這些武器之後也必須落產落實這個台灣的一個產業鏈不管是維護或者相關的養護好那 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5000.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5015.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
中科院您的這個品質又在哪裡呢好第二個本席要講的是拒絕戰力我買軍購它是一時的我要戰力的持續是在於你這個每個武器的全受其你的整體後備 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5016.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5031.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
好 本席要講的過去我們就思維在國外在美國買那就送回美國來維修現在我們跟美國買你的軍工授權的維修到底是怎麼談的你針對這2400億的美方發價書你是怎麼談這個軍工合作的來 部長請回 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5038.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5065.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
先雲報那個跟委員報告我們的委員所提的雲報就是我們的輪型的搖動工業的站腳車它的高度已經低於三公尺第三車在去年年底已經經過陸軍的測評IOT都已經通過我們預定我們在明年就要亮牆我講的是中科院的品質現在先來我再問工合因為只有六分鐘快點回答我工合你們在2400億要怎麼談 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5067.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5094.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
工合的話我們現在都是以談多少我們就編多少啊我們將國防資源運用的非常的重要所以2400億已經美方發家說你沒有談工合那你怎麼落地啊你怎麼落地台灣啊好那我們我再問之前我們對美軍購採購的工業合作落地於台灣還有多少經費尚未執行有23億的美元點 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5095.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5116.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
一點就是比照0.86美元現在都還在持續在洽談 接洽 藉由經濟部的公和小指化在促進我們的落地 在地的維修部分你現在講的是針對2400億未來亞盤的方向原則沒有 是之前的 委員剛剛講之前還有多少公和還沒有運用完23億點美元點 一個美元點是約0.86美元 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5122.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5142.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
所以到底還有多少台幣還沒有執行或多少美元還沒執行這過去的剛剛已經講了那個金額那我們現在的公合我們因為公合的外加那我們現在都要事前公合就是說他同意願意轉移這個關鍵的技術我們才同意用公合不然這個錢全部會外加上去所以我們現在的我覺得這個是重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5144.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5152.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
如果你今年買了武器只是繳保護費而沒有投資台灣的未來國防來帶動產業產業來支持國防那我覺得這2400億是有點是打水漂了沒有落實我的國防 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5160.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5162.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
我們之前我就說為什麼有漢祥IDF我們之前跟美國買的F51中正號零件授權的我方生產維修我們才有幾個漢祥的自己的IDF及之後台灣藍圈的教練機這就是公和的成果啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5177.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5186.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
如果你今天2400億沒有公合的話那今天我認為就是交保護費而不是投資台灣的未來所以在這邊我本行要求針對兩個五人機產業鏈的扶持計劃以及在地維修的談判進度這兩項一個月內能夠交本委員會來做說明可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5199.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5215.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
你要怎麼輔導 你這2400億怎麼輔導我無人機產業 你要落實在台灣啊你的在地維修如何在台灣啊我的理由是在繳保護費啊 而不是真的在支持台灣的未來啊我們會後再提出順便報告給委員好 謝謝我們結束林大華委員的質詢 接下來請賴會員委員好 謝謝主席 我請國防部部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5231.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5236.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
公安部部长好来喝一口咖啡没问题请部长 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5241.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5261.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
今天兩個委員會我們要審查軍購特別條例其實我們看行政院的軍購特別條例跟國民黨跟民眾黨的軍購特別條例顯然這兩個黨還有就是行政院的版本其實發生了很大的一個落差 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5262.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5282.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
好民眾黨在第四條特別就提出來提出來他把這個項目都寫死了他把所有無人機還有灰彈的一個數量各式的一個裝備我利用就是我們那個林鄭月娥委員她在講的無人機產業的那個她的一個扶持的一個計畫還有在地維修的一個談判的一個進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5286.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5305.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
希望就是一個月內你書面報告提出來可是在這裡我要請教部長可以就是說在這個特別條例裡頭把所有你們的經購採購的一個項目把它寫得這麼清楚數量要多少然後什麼種類要多少可以這樣子寫嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5307.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5324.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
特別條例因為它是一個條例不是一個預算案那條例的部分我們按照過去所有的條例的寫法它都是在寫能力的部分那能力的項目我們有七大類的能力項目那這些七大類的能力項目之後我們有包括軍購也有包括商購、偽製 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5326.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5342.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
還有台美共同合作的部分那我們把這些能力列出來之後要通過哪些預算還要等特別條例就像今天一樣我們還要再把預算案拿進來然後這個預算要通過之後才有真正能夠獲付到預算這樣是 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5342.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5356.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
沒有錯我想這個特別條例跟特別預算跟總預算其實是應該要釐清的非常清楚了顯然民眾黨犯了一個非常低級的錯誤繼續我們在看到了就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5357.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5377.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
民眾黨的前主席柯文哲他其實在整個兩年前的總統大選的一個政見裡頭他有特別提到了國防預算這國防預算裡頭他其實也有特別提到無人機人工智慧還有揮彈他問說這在台灣是不是有發展的可能性那顯然就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5379.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5394.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
民眾黨嘴巴喊的就是國防要自主實際上又砍掉了國防的自主性柯文哲人種查量 綜合大選兩年後民眾黨沒有看到了他們的真正的一個他們前主席要的是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5395.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5410.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
一年一起的一個編列害死了經購一定是的對美經購的一個特性我們當然希望它是長期的然後是跨年度的分階段的一個交貨然後是長期的一個採購那民眾黨的一年一起其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5411.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5428.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
會不會導致就是說沒有辦法簽長約增加價格的一個風險還有他會不會延誤交貨然後也會降低了美方的一個信任在這裡我想部長台海的一個狀況可不可以算是國防的一個緊急的狀態呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5429.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5446.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
這一次的經購的項目內容我們可以看到國防緊急的一個設那個措施那你對經購特別條例預算中限制特別的預算的使用跟額度是不是可以這樣的一個編列我想聽聽部長你的一個看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5447.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5469.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
現在就是說特別條例裡面它現在有幾個經過大家這個原來民眾黨提出來是將那個項目還有那個金額都寫死了我想後來民眾黨也改了所以現在就沒有把這個金額給寫死現在就只限於那個特定的這個案項 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5469.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5486.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
那特定的案項列出來之後那當然後面第一批第二批我們就要全部按照這個案項那另外他就是採一年一編那一年一編的部分呢我想一年一編就像剛剛主席長也報告我們今年就是編88億 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5487.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5509.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
那明年的部分到底能不能夠獲付會變得有點不確定不過我們還是在把我們的特別預算案裡面有提出一個全案的一個金額就是大概2949億多這個部分還是寫進來那這個的意思就是請各位參考即使是採一年一編的方式的話那全案的預算還是請各位能夠支持這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5509.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5522.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
好 部長辛苦了台海的情勢是要我們提升戰力可是在野黨他其實在程序上一直製造障礙所以你們非常辛苦部長請回我請主席講請主席講 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5529.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5555.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
主席長在預算法裡頭規定特別預算的一個審查程序跟總預算其實相同我們從84條裡頭去看到了可是預算法第83條他有特別提到了在4種情況之下你可以編列特別的一個預算那像重大的一個災變就在去年那個馬太安還有不定期的重大的一個政策就是說花旺現金 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5555.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5578.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
還有就是前瞻的一個計畫裡頭都可以用到預算法那他第一條特別講到了國防環境級的一個設施跟戰爭其實這裡頭非常的清楚了特別預算本來就是非常時期的一個制度那如果我們從預算法第84條裡頭我們又看到了就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5579.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5602.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
含合宜國防緊急設施跟戰爭的情形我們可以先支付一部分啦我們可以 這個完全 預算法83、84都寫得非常清楚是不是這樣子目前國防部也簽辦要先行支付的部分已經送到院裡頭來那我們正在處理這一件 要先行支付的案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5603.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5632.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
所以我們看到了就是在野檔基金撥測就是要讓你軟那驗版為什麼會排除預算法第23條呢我們當然看到了就是說他希望公共的債務他有更彈性的一個應用還有特別預算的核心就是要彈性嘛所以那個特別預算不等於是總預算可是我們也希望就是不是毫無限制的一個舉債 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5633.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5647.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
在這裡頭公共債務的一個彈性的一個設計我們看得非常的清楚可是我想今天時間非常短那就是說私底那個我請財政部把今天那個我要針對的一個議題私下再把這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5649.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5663.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
你的那個報告給本席我想這個就是亂啦大家辛苦謝謝謝謝我們結束賴慧媛委員的質詢接下來請陳俊宇委員好謝謝主席我們有請顧部長顧部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5682.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5686.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
這次特別條例通過上限7800億的對美軍購品項雖然這部分的預算應該是比較有共識 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5698.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5721.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
排除了我們國防部規劃其他的這個相關的案項那從我們先前多次的這個詢問過程中也了解到其實這些案項仍然有他的這個急迫性跟必要性所以今天我想就其中幾個沒有納入特別預算的項目來跟部長您做討論也希望能有相關的補救方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5721.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5749.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
首先是軍購產能興建或增建產線的規劃主要是因應我們國軍在平時訓練的需求有所成長對於暫時的這種高消耗或是海空域補給線受到封鎖的情境之下能夠更加的關鍵近期我們國內外對於彈藥的生產存量也有一些討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5750.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5762.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
那先前我們國防部規劃透過特別預算的這個編列希望能夠增加14條的這個產線來擴大生產能量部長您先前也有說明如果按照 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5763.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5781.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
深伏基金來編列一年只能編列4億啦齁那這個要很多年之後才能夠有14條產線的規模而年度預算的這個新增空間也相當的有限所以我們在這次特別預算當中沒有被納入是比較可惜 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5782.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5794.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
我想就這個部分請教部長對於原先14條的這個生產線所規劃的產能以及我們所需的戰備存量國防部目前打算用什麼方式來補強我們現在還是會 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5800.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5811.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
因為我們大概會就這14條轉線我們會一一來檢討啦我們會排一個優序啦也就是說優序在前的我們一定要納入 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5813.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5837.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
事實上會員跟委員報告有一些項目是屬於台美在共同要合作產製的所以這個部分我們會把優序擺在這個前面我們把這個優序擺在前面我們要跟主席總書院商量我們不管是擺入年度預算或是擺入最佳預算我們這個部分是要把它優序的部分一定無路無河要晃進來那有一些優序因為現在特別預算沒有過 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5838.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
5864.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
那如果真的容納不下的話那我們就把這個有些優序要往後延但無論如何14條產線有一些往後延的結果確實會造成某一些部分的一個我們的一個防衛韌性的一個弱化那所以我們現在沒有辦法的情況之下那就是最重要的部分我們把它擺在最前面那這個是沒有辦法的事情就是一定要這樣子做這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
5865.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
5884.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
好 那另外有關這個無人機反制能力的部分包括去年漢光演習期間有無人機連續多日侵擾我方的這個基地我們卻沒有辦法有效的來驅離反制檢察院在先前也有提出相關的報告 促請我們國防部確實能夠做到改善的檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
5886.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
5907.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
那原先在這個特別預算當中我們有納入這個可吸式無人機反制系統一次能夠干擾多架的這個無人機來提升部隊對於無人機侵擾及時反制的能力那國防部原先規劃籌購的這635套可吸式無人機反制系統沒有被納入是否 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
5908.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
5924.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
對於我們房屋造成什麼樣的一個缺口後續又有什麼樣的替代方案這部分是不是請部長您簡要說明一下這個部分第一個就這個我們現在這個可吸式的溫泉反射系統沒有納入之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
5926.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
5951.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
我們還是會檢討其他的這些相關的裝備因為無人機的反制有包括主動跟被動所以也不是單一的裝備所以我們就被動的部分不論包括這個偽裝隱蔽分散部署跟防禦護公室等我們會來做那主動的部分事實上反制無人機的這個部分也不是只有這一個可吸式的無人機的反制的部分還有可能有其他的反制無人機那這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
5951.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
5974.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
要怎麼去編列這個部分本來如果是多年期的也許我們可以考量我們基於這個無人機的反制無人機的反制也許也有迭代創新我們正在考慮也是要檢討要納入一定要納入至於用什麼樣的方式納入是放在年度預算還是最佳預算裡面這個部分我們正在檢討不過我們可能讓這個預算的額度在我們的現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
5981.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
5998.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
可以增長的這個國防預算的這個額度範圍之內我們也是去檢討這個相關的優勢好那我們也看到這個陸軍在去年1月設立無人機的訓練中心之後很快的在4月又升格為兵艦等級的這個無人系統訓練指揮部 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
5999.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6014.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
那這個部分我想請教部長無人機訓練中心在短時間之內可以升格為這個指揮部它的意義跟必要性是什麼那指揮部是否負責整合三軍在各類無人系統的這個教則和訓測的這個相關標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6017.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6033.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
我想我簡單回答一下就是說他最主要就是他轉型以後變成說教育訓練測評跟研發他都要負責啦但是整個來講他還是限於這個地面的無人系統那詳細的部分是不是請參謀長 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6036.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6052.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
簡單向委員報告就是他原本只是做師資跟操作手的培訓那在轉型為無人系統指揮部之後他增加了一個這個做法是就針對未來的無人機作戰的研究發展還有成立測考中心對我們的無人機專責部隊來訂定測考的標準好 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6056.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6084.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
那另外在這個陸軍的這個主戰部隊我們各個作戰區都依據任務的特性還有戰術的運用新增無人機的無人機大隊那這部分我們去年也曾經討論過想要再追蹤目前的進度大概是什麼我們第一支的這個無人機大隊是否已經編組成軍那預計在七月之前全數成編的規劃是否能夠如期達成 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6085.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6091.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
三個鑽區的無人機大隊已經都在七月份已經依照規劃完成編程 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6093.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6118.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
已經變成了但是現在可能會因為無人機的會有一些我們現在要還要購置一些訓練用無人機不然的話變成有邊無裝的一個狀況現在除了這個機友的這個Artis這個600以外那我們還有其他的這些包括濱海健身型的 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6119.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6133.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
跟濱海攻擊型的還有這個R-700我們還沒有到但是我們想我們在這個階段我們會盡量用訓練型的無人機來加以讓這些無人機大隊能夠能夠持續的來訓練這樣子好 謝謝 謝謝部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6138.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6166.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
那中共這個無人機的這個騷擾事件一定不會是目前看到的這個情形而已而且還會持續啦所以我還是希望說我們立法院不分朝野對於相關的預算來支持能夠讓我們相關的這些裝備儘早到位提供給我們國軍一個更加好的這個防衛的一個武器啦會不會請國防部持續努力是 謝謝謝謝敬意委員接著請燕秀召委質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6176.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6176.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
郭文貴議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6188.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6205.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
我先問一下剛才我聽到幾位委員的質詢我先請問一下顧部長就是有關於我們在美國聽證會上聽到海軍的代理部長提到就是說暫停軍售的部分你剛才也回應其他委員說後續審慎樂觀因為我們這一次條例我們後面還有140億的美金的發價書目前還沒拿到 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6211.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6226.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
那我們這個140億我們條例是一年之內也就是到明年五月之前如果拿到美國的發價同意書的話我們仍舊可以編列預算可以進來喔那剛才你回答前幾位有人說我們審慎樂觀那部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6229.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6236.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
您所謂審慎樂觀,我們跟美方有溝通接觸嗎?這件事情我們從媒體上看到,我相信你一定有跟賴總統開過國安的高層會議,那總統的指示是什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6249.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6264.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
部長您請回跟委員報告我想這個美方現在各部門都已經一再不管是這個這國務院或者是戰爭部都一再的說明這個也包括川普本人說對台的政策沒有改變這對台政策有兩個 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6265.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6291.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
我知道對台真的沒有改變到你剛才回應首先樂觀對台政策兩個意涵第一個就是說它維持台海和平是美國的核心利益這是第一點第二點如何維持台海的和平就是強化嚇阻強化嚇阻其中有一點就是在第一島鏈之中大家都要強化集體嚇阻那其中依照台灣干預法提供自我防衛武器的這個能力是裡面的重要的一環 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6292.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6302.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
所以他一直在強調對台政策的不便 而且強調台灣關係法的來疑是 部長 制定以來對我們的長久承諾在這一點上面 所以我們認為這些回應 我知道 部長 這些回應我從媒體上都可以看到只是我剛才 因為我們今天討論的是條例跟相關便利的預算我關心的是 後續這第二個140億美金的發價是因為到明年5月 你就要拿到嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6316.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6336.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
那所以你剛才回答的審慎樂觀是在明年五月之前我們還是有機會拿到發架書是不是對 我們對這個表示審慎樂觀那總統有沒有什麼樣的指示或者在這段時間你有跟美方誰持續的接觸嗎你才會回應說審慎樂觀吧我想我們跟美方的接觸我沒辦法在這裡做公開的說明但我們持續跟美方保持密切的聯繫 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6337.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6361.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
好那我第二個問題我要請教你就是說有關無人機的部分目前其實剛剛很多委員關注當然台灣要發展無人機產業我們也都樂觀支持但是有兩個部分無人機是軍用商用其實我覺得這都是未來台灣和軍工的合作這都是未來台灣可以發展重要的產業但是就是說未來商用的部分跟軍用兩邊能不能劃開劃得開 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6364.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6388.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
未來跟經濟部未來有沒有機會就是說怎麼去做後續的處理這是我關心的跟委員報告從俄羅斯戰爭可以顯示軍用跟商用的那一個所需要的這個那個要素對怎麼要去切開來對其實已經越來越模糊了有些商用的無人機啊你只要掛上火弓箭它就變軍用了 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6390.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6416.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
這個烏克蘭的運用上面非常的清楚所以我想在於我們在於有一個不管是商用或軍用商用的部分我們有一個共規的模式跟我們軍用有一個共規的模式只要他要再提升他只要再往上疊加提升重點在軍備局再加上火工的部分就可以成為軍用所以軍商用的界線在這個無人機這一塊已經越來越模糊 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6416.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6431.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
所以我剛才聽到你回答幾位委員是說未來明年我們可能用追加預算或編在我們國防部的預算裡面都有可能所以現在還沒確定因為現在明年的概算已經在最後的階段馬上就要送到主席總書這邊去做處理好那我最後一個問題我要請問因為我們今天是討論預算的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6438.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6453.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
預算的部分未來怎麼去做整體的處理就是說我們現在買的武器越來越多那國家所需要我們全力支持但是全售期的部分也是我們關注的因為你這邊多其他部會就會少 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6454.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6468.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
所以我就會想說你全秀旗的部分到底你的全秀旗是怎麼去看待那全秀旗的時間是多長我們才知道包括賴總統要的比如說老農今天要增加比如說小孩的大禮包要放進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6469.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6480.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
我覺得這些都可以討論但是國家到底有多少的錢可以做多少的事情因為武器買的多全售期也就會長那我也看到就是說包括這五項武器裡面我看到就是說我們的維持成本的佔比是0.85%到17%不等但是我也關注到美國學者針對37項武器的研究證實就是說維持成本的佔比合理的應該在55%到70%左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6497.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6516.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
所以我不知道我有可能我對這一方面我不是專業但是我關注的是未來整個部會的預算當國防預算越來越多的時候其他部會怎麼去減少或怎麼去做處理這是我關心的所以在維持成本的部分包括全售期的部分我們到底是怎麼去做編列具體的時間到底是幾年還有包括我舉一個例子來說 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6520.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6548.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
包括海馬是我們的飛彈系統的準線火箭我們現在編列的是4320枚那我們的戰術區域飛彈是420枚所以我舉個例子就是說這420枚飛彈是永久的存量或者是它有期限期限到我是不是還要再買那它有沒有編進來所以這個是我對於未來長久的預算編列關注的地方我先簡單的用幾句話來說明如果需要的話詹科士來跟您說說 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6549.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6578.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
第一個就是說我們新式的武器來一定會汰除舊式的武器所以舊式武器本來就有它一個維持成本然後我們把它汰除之後這個維持成本就減掉了那新式武器來的維持成本不見得會比舊式的武器成本來得高這是第一點第二點所有的武器來都有一個初期的備份在兩到三年之內這個是不需要有一個後勤的維持成本但如果過了兩三年之後會有一個後勤維持成本那後勤維持成本的比例就如同剛剛委員所指教的 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6578.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6594.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
根據每一個武器系統的不同它會有不同的維持成本所以我們在我們的預算案裡面最後一頁30頁裡面我們有一個估計全受期維持的一個後期成本從自走趴0.85%到17%嗎這個相關的這個%數 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6599.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6623.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
幫委員他每一個項目都是不一樣的部長主席講這個我就要請你們特別注意因為我們武器不是買一買過一陣子就要丟掉它的全熱洗時間很長所以你剛才提的我也都清楚但是對於未來維修也好相關它的壽命也好我們要一直編下去所以武器買越多你當然未來國防部的預算也就會長得越來越胖 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6625.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6652.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
那總統要去做其他的事情我覺得大家立法院我們大家都可以討論支持但是我們到底有多少錢做多少事情我們今天在審查財務會在審查這個預算的時候我們就必須要看得出來後續我們在審查其他無論是其他特別條例或者是追加預算我們才知道我們怎麼去做後續的處理所以我希望有機會可以看到更完整長期這些武器到底全售期時間是多長 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6653.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6678.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
每一個武器它的全壽級 它的壽命可能不一樣有的二十年 有的三十年 不等所以到底多長我覺得 組織總署這邊要有一個更完整 更細膩的資料才知道說 預估十年 二十年之後我的國防部買這些武器的預算到底要多少 因為還有維修成本總統要再加進來 老農今天要再往上加小孩的大禮拜往上加我覺得我們都可以討論 但是有多少錢做多少事情我們怎麼樣去做取捨這個就是我們要繼續討論的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6683.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6687.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
我們可以到您辦公室跟您做一個比較詳細的說明謝謝主席長 謝謝顧部長接下來我請林思銘委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6709.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6712.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
好 謝謝主席我們請那個部長 顧部長國防部顧部長請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6720.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6731.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
部長,我們首批的對美軍事採購特別預算第一批是2,949億9,097萬6千元今年我看到你這一次就先編列88億1,257萬1千元以舉債的方式來支應 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6742.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6758.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
採購包括海馬式多管火箭系統M109A7自走炮以及反甲型無人戰機飛彈系統等裝備那上週你證實國防部一直表示有需求的增次飛彈雖然已經兩年編列預算卻還有2121枚尚未取得發價書 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6765.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6783.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
那現在行政院所提出的這個首批特別預算扣除今年度編列的88億剩餘的打算採購的項目中啊已經有提出的採購單也收到發價書對不對剩餘的扣除這88億啊剩餘的都已經有收到發價書了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6785.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6807.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
您說這五個案有了嘛那另外2800多億呢剩餘的扣除這88億剩餘的是不是都已經收到發價數了不是 報告委員這個是整案的整案的發價數都有拿到就只有這88億跟委員報告 88億因為它是特別條例現在有個規定它叫我們要一年一編 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6809.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6828.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
因為過去的特別條例沒有叫我們一年一編那委員看一下就是說在我們的預算的案裡面25頁我們有提出全部的那這全部的這幾個案子2949都有拿到趴價書都有了嘛OK好都有了 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6829.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
6842.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
所以我想問部長我們先前跟美方採購的這些武器包含新式的戰機還有其他的武器現在都處在一個慈嚴教父的狀態中所以這個慈嚴的狀況目前到底如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
6848.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
6868.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
到底什麼時候可以來國防部有充分的掌控這些情況跟委員報告就是我們這個已經做過多次報告就是說持續中的案子現在有28個案子那其中25案都有提前交付或者是準時交付那有25案的其中的3案有延宕了就MK48跟AG154然後另外這個就是您剛剛提到F16B |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
6873.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
6901.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
那我們也提到了我們預計這個F-16B會在今年的第三季也就是九月之後呢會陸續來交付這樣子所以我們有充分掌握這些狀況嘛是 我們現在做成立專案辦公室來了解我想這個我沿襲李燕秀委員該質詢的就是說對於川普總統啊他在訪問中國大陸之後呢他表示說這個他的代理海軍部長表示說華府正暫停140億美元的對台軍售案 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
6902.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
6925.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
所以這是否表示未來任何的軍公案都會處於一個不確定的狀態我想我們看了一下他的發言事實上美國海軍的代理部長他事實上也提到說這些軍方案都是要取決於戰爭部長以及國務卿的決定那事實上後來戰爭部的發言也提到的就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
6929.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
6955.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
這個相關的細節就是有關軍售跟特別安全事務都是最後要由總統做出最終的決定就是美國總統做出最終的決定那他也提到說內台的政策沒有改變那美國也持續遵循台灣關係法相關的長久承諾所以我想我們從這個地方剛我也已經回答了就是說我們說明就是說相關的長久承諾台灣關係法就是要維持自我防衛的能力這個要持續提供相關的武器 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
6956.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
6969.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
除了應該說的您的解讀以外啦我想對於說這些武器啊這個我們看先前的例子嘛採購之後也是遲延交付啦所以我們國防部啊未來是否會提早 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
6972.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
6991.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
及早提出應變的一個相關的一個備案啦以免嚴重的影響我國的建軍計畫相關 雙方都會成立專案辦公室那我們會有駐場的人員然後我們會有緊密的會議然後我們會看哪些問題然後再來協調做一些資源的調度那我們每個會計也都會向委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
6993.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7021.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
我們這次通過的軍購特別預算是七千八百億如果美方軍售可能因為國際戰事彈藥庫純外交談判或美中關係而暫緩那我們是不是等於說我們先舉債先編預算最後卻只能被動的等待美方的一個決定國防部到底有沒有這個能力要求美方提出比較明確的交貨期程 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7024.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7042.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
你現在問的是指我們現在已經訂了第一批的第一批跟未來第二批啊第一批的部分我們現在編列預算進來剛剛講了我們會持續跟美方掌握相關進度也會每個會議都會向大院執行報告那第二批的部分沒有編預算啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7042.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7059.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
第二批的部分我想市部長當然還沒編啦但是我只是這個建議你就是說未來對這些相關的預算的一個採購我們不能被動的等待美方的決定如果這個影響我們建軍的一個計畫我想我們就被他一拖再拖啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7061.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7078.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
跟委員報告我們提出來這個不只是要求明確的交貨期程一定要對美方有所要求我其實跟委員報告其實我們不只是這個已經通過了這些軍購的部分我們事實上包括商購跟偽製的部分我們都是跟美方戳傷出來這個提出來一兆2500億 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7080.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7107.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
那現在有關所以其他的部分沒有通過的部分我們仍然透過我們其他的預算編列的方式來尋求這個解決那至於已經通過的這個軍購的部分我們當然會持續關注美方交貨的進度這個是我們所有委員都關切的事項這我們一定會來努力好 我希望這個官部充分掌握整個交貨的一個期程不能一拖再拖我想這國人非常的不放心 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7108.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7118.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
是 謝謝委員指教好 謝謝我們結束林思敏委員的質詢接下來請王定宇委員在劉許廷委員質詢之後 我們休息五分鐘好 謝謝主席 麻煩顧部長我們站規師有來嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7140.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7168.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
非常早我剛剛聽到國民黨委員當然他很關心國防提到說我們這個軍購案不能單看美方的決定我坦白講從以往不管哪一黨當總統如果對美軍購你不看美方的決定要看誰的決定這是一個賣方市場我們國軍籌貨裝備本來就充滿困難所以另外一邊要準備什麼呢我們的國產多來源當我們國家能夠造IDF |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7169.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7185.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
F16AB型當時就簽署下來當我們自己國家的萬箭彈發展出來HARMS他就同意了那已經爭取一二十年可是我們這次的國防特別預算把我們國產要國造的產線通通砍掉啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7186.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7210.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
一面說不能靠一個國家一面把自己國家要研製的東西砍掉我是覺得很可惜啦我現在要請教部長到目前為止我不管在院會質詢或者在委員會質詢我一直提到我們這一次的國防特別條例其實是有bug它有自愛難行的地方你看這一張這一張是美方的流程我加了一些中文註解 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7213.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7228.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
這一次特別條例一直說LOA發價輸來我們再來專報再來編預算那今天是聯審我們有跨委員會的同仁在那邊部長這一個條例這個內容至愛難行在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7230.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7259.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
就是說他說要等到我們跟立法院專案報告特別是院長專案報告之後我們才能夠籌編預算來不來得及這個實際上我們是一定要在這個跟美方磋商其實我們以往在PNA的時候就編預算了有公售意願之後我們就要籌編啦不然的話我們這些作戰需求文件系統分析到期程工項到整個整理獲得規劃書我們都有一定的期程嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7259.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7272.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
所以不可能說如果按照這樣講的話我們要到那個時候才開始進行預算籌編那個叫做來不及特別條例所以今天這個狀況其實是我們其實早就如果你要這樣講我們已經在進行籌編了那只是說我們順著這個特別條例的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7278.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7299.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
你們是根據這個特別條例但本席這邊一定要點出特別條例這個bug這跟黨派無關我真的期盼不管國民黨民眾黨的同仁聽懂我下面講的話韓院長知道了那天我跟賴世保委員跟陳鴻航委員提到一樣的問題李燕秀委員你也聽聽看這個跟黨派無關你也可以問過去國民黨擔任過國防部長的其實都知道這個流程 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7300.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7324.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
我們對美的軍購案 我們要先寄一封信叫request LOR去尋求什麼 你的初估報價 你的銷售意願那個叫price and availability P&A以往是在P&A的時候 我們國家就要編預算了那這個有兩個bug 一個叫時間上的bug |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7326.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7352.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
當我們得到LOR回函之後呢美國總統就要通知美國國會在通知國會之前還叫我們台灣還是保持機密預算那美國通知國會的時候台灣在做什麼呢台灣就要編列機密預算準備通知我們台灣的國會這是雙軌的等到美國國會同意或者美國國會可以不審因為它時間到自動生效 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7353.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7381.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
生效之後我們台灣的機密預算就轉為公開預算這多年來沒有改變過二三十年了然後呢 軌道走到這邊的時候呢美國國會這一塊又會出現一個新的報價所以報價沒有所謂的LOA報價LOA發價書不是報價書啦這個時候美國政府 因為這是軍售案就要去跟contractor 去跟合約商議價 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7384.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7408.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
然後台灣這個時候會根據初估預算送到立法院審查我這樣講沒有錯嗎好 市長我這樣講沒有錯這個時候其實是在LOA有時候是在一年前我們現在壓到LOA才要來談那這個時候美方跟那些溢價溢價來溢價去的時候他準備他得到美國契約商的報價的時候每一個報價數上壓年 壓時間壓幾天市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7413.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7425.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
通常壓幾天美國政府喔美國政府跟他的契約商議價的時候壓的那個報價有效期限是幾天90 days90天啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7426.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7445.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
那契約商給美國政府代議約的時限是90天為什麼90天他怕你拖久了這個報價無效啊會漲價啊會貶價所以那個報價期有效期限是90天這是在美國的手裡喔等到美國回過頭說來來來台灣我發LOA給你通常都已經過兩個月了 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7450.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7478.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
所以那個報價期限剩幾天剩30天LOA的效期只有30天是這樣來的部長跟市長我這樣講沒有錯嘛所以等到LOA這個報價的有效期 抱歉只剩30天然後我們立法院這個條例叫什麼LOA來 你先專報專報完了再來編預算預算編了 副委在國防委員會審查完出委員會再來黨政黨協商再來院會二三讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7479.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7480.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
報價變了來不及了 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7482.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7506.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
這是科學問題這跟黨派無關我們長期以來我們國軍在美國我們在DC有美團我們這個軍售案從以往到現在都是這樣子所以這一個條例有時間上的bug會來不及另外一個價格上的bug常常鬧著笑話嘛拿初步報價國會報價到契約商報價到LOA的簽約報價那個報價有四次不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7512.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7539.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
然後到最後整個繳完了美國政府幫你做audit幫你做審計之後才是真正的報價所以拿前面的初估報價來說那個報價怎麼少幾億少多幾億故意的話就惡意啦不是故意的話就外行嘛所以本席在那邊敦請我們國會的同仁國家只有一個國家利益都是一樣的這一個條例訂LOA真的會讓國防部摯愛難行 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7541.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7559.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
這個不解開來跟金額無關你根本是來不及這叫做來不及國防特別預算條例所以時間的限制啦我本來要問這個美國海軍代理部長的事情不過我提醒美國海軍代理部長講了一大堆最後講說那不是我的權限權限是Rubio跟Hexes |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7560.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7589.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
所以去詮釋他的話我覺得我們也不用樂觀也不用悲觀要審慎的去溝通跟因應這個代理部長高雄他是去參加聽證會那同一個聽證會Hexes講了大概三次說對伊朗的軍需沒有欠缺那最近好像和談要完成了所以有關這個美國新一筆對台軍售局勢還在演變中能夠叫牌的大概是川普所以也不用為這個海軍部長樂觀或悲觀我要提醒好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7590.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7592.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
謝謝主席 國防部長有請請國防部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7612.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7628.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
林委員部長早安 辛苦啦這順著我們剛剛王定宇委員的質詢往下講這當然啦 這個參議院的聽證會不是開玩笑的在上面每一句話都非常的具有政治上的影響力那他當然講的也是事實這個海軍代理部長有他自己的一個說法 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7628.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7641.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
但最終決定權確實要往上級來做城堡嘛這我想也是非常合理的所以剛剛他講說不要悲觀也不要樂觀方向上本席是同意的但不管怎麼樣核心原則是我們要務實嘛所以今天針對到底具體來講會怎麼走聽一聽國防部長的一個意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7645.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7668.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
現在這個可能是因為美伊戰爭的原因也有可能是因為川習會談判的原因等等反正這第二波發架書看起來還要延宕一段時間或者是有高度的這樣子的一個不確定性因為過去我們在審查特別條例的時候其實我想中華民國政府體系各個不同的單位當然都沒有辦法百分之百的掛保證這個本席願意尊重但是基本上當初都說 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7669.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7680.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
一定會來 時間早晚的問題也是有呈現這樣的訊息那部長最新的說法叫做審慎樂觀那這個到底來或不來 有沒有更具體的答案呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7681.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7710.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
跟委員報告我想最開始的時候美國事實上有給我們一個保證信函那就是相關的這個案項都已經給我們的有關這些執行的期程等等這些所以表達了明確的供受意願那當然我們必須說最後當然還是要取決於川普總統最後的決定那只是我們也看到他們一直在表明對台政策不變那依照台灣關係法的一個長久承諾不變那台灣關係法就是要 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7711.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7737.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
持續的提供防衛性的武器給我們所以我們在這個地方就國防部立場我們也跟美國戰爭部持續的保持溝通那我們認為 審慎樂觀的原因是因為我們認為在對台政策不變的情況之下那這裡面涉及到台海和平的核心利益是美國的核心利益然後也涉及到說要持續的提供防衛性武力是提供嚇阻的一個力量然後藉以維持台海和平所以我們還是審慎樂觀好 我們一樣順著部長的回答往下問 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7741.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7768.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
這個剛剛有講包含維持和平穩定是重要的這個國家利益要根據台灣關係法持續的來供售這個防衛性的武器這都沒有錯的這也是所謂的對台政策但請問部長這對台政策包不包含六項保證應該會包含吧是應該包含對不對可是它關鍵就是它只要有賣武器它就符合台灣關係法的要件嘛因為我持續供售武器所以你就可以講不變但問題是六項保證裡面其實其中有一項也就是大家最近很關注的嘛也就是說它不會跟中國大陸去商量 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7769.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7794.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
要不要給台灣供受防衛性武器對不對它是不能被列入談判的要件的嘛不能變成中美雙方談判的要件嘛這是美方對我們的六項保證那現在大家擔心的並不是台灣關係法台灣會不會從此以後不賣了而是在具體的過程中這樣子的一個軍售案未來有沒有可能一直變成中美兩大強權在互動的時候的這樣的一個談判籌碼現在大家擔心的是六項保證被挑戰如果今天這第二波發價書沒有辦法競速的準時的到來 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7796.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7812.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
他算不算六項保證的改變他算不算美國對台政策的改變請部長回答六項保證大概委員提到大概就第二個部分就是說他不需要徵詢中國的意見就是我們也注意到川普的發言因為川普的發言他事實上 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
7813.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
7840.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
在空軍銀行上面他有提到就是說是習近平先提到的第一個表示不是美方主動去提及的第二點就是他很快就會做出決定那也就表示是說這個徵詢中方的意見在六項保證這一個部分至少沒有應該不會說是要取得中方的同意在這一點上面所以還是取決於美國那美國說要在表示對我們的政策不變的情況之下所以我們會持續的跟美國戰爭部也報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
7842.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
7864.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
這個要持續溝通本席都肯定國防部的努力啦那你剛剛講說是只要他沒有主動爭取就不算我是為你捏把冷汗因為以前都沒有這樣的問題當然局勢變化的很快我也不會多為難整個國防部上上下下都很辛苦這本席願意理解但是具體來講大家還是要回到問題的本質啊那到底第二波發架書有沒有明確的時間表呢現在我們現在沒有辦法明確的回答委員的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
7865.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
7887.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
但是盡量啦好不好盡量對我們持續的持續在跟他溝通那我們就回到第一波的部分因為他講每一彈藥當然是國防這個戰爭部長講沒有這個問題嘛以目前國防部的情資各方面的掌握跟溝通啊第一波現在已經確定嘛變成三千多億馬上進入到預算審查的程序那麼相關的到貨啊順利的到貨有沒有辦法做明確的保證 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
7889.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
7910.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
我們就這個部分就是雙方會成立專案辦公室我也一再說明說時候會透過一個持續密集的會議然後我們會駐場然後來關切這樣子的一個產線的一個狀況然後我們也就執行進度我們會持續掌握我們也會每會期跟大院來進行報告所以你們要用成立專案辦公室很好啊我覺得這是一件很好的事專案辦公室誰抓總誰負責 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
7912.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
7932.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
專案辦公室的部分原則上在我們的部分應該是各軍種相關的軍種會成立一個專案辦公室那我們國防部各聯參也會成立另外一個監督的一個編組因為既然都已經國家決定投入大量的預算人民的民知民高當然國防是非常非常重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
7932.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
7956.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
但既然都編了相關的預算多少大家就各有意見各有爭執這我們就不管但是只要編下去了我們就要求軍購的部分要如期如質嘛其實要回到這個事情的本質所以為了會後針對專案辦公室的一些編組跟一些規劃這要提供詳細的資料以立預算的審查嘛我們總要知道誰要來負責督導相關的進度去確保這件事情能夠如期到位這部分請國防部會後提供可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
7956.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
7964.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
可以可以,我們會後再跟委員做一個報告主席,我請一下主席長我們針對預算一起講,政會市長沒有關係,謝謝,請回好,請主席長這個一樣,兩位一起聽這個我們有注意到,這包含立法院預算中心的評估報告等等還有我們自己的觀察,有提到這個過去,譬如說國防部來講好了一般的公務預算,針對這個裝備的籌購它其實寫得蠻清楚的,也就是說我有籌購品項 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
7983.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8007.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
我有籌購數量還有分年因為有些是長期採購嘛3到5年等等他會有分年預計的籌貨品項跟數量的詳細資料都在這預算的這個預算書裡面他會寫的比較的清楚但這一次這個特別預算案的六項採購計畫就沒有像一般公務預算的時候寫這麼清楚只有寫說我總共規模是多少上限是多少總量是多少但他沒有像一般公務預算裡面去提 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8008.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8035.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
各評價每一年的籌購數量這一點有一些落差啦那我們觀察一下好像特別預算的部分都沒有像一般公務預算寫的那麼樣的清楚這是不是請主計總長說明一下這是有行之有能的慣例嗎這樣子慣例是不是很好的有沒有一些改善的空間請你回答一下 謝謝是 我們特別預算是寫的是跟總預算是有點不太相同啦那這一個部分國防部的這一個說明的部分我請國防部的主計 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8038.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8053.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
我是國防部主席局局長有關這次特別預算書表上所揭露只有分年這個比較詳細的項目部分我要特別表達一下以往國防特別預算他是一次編列一次審議然後分年執行所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8053.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8075.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
我們會把每一年的分年的向量金額都列出來但是這一次的特別條例只有一年一邊所以我們今年送進來的預算就只有針對115年度有詳細去描述但是全案六個案子每一個計劃的全期程的預算項目我們還是有在上面做揭露以上跟我們做報告好 謝謝你的詳細說明這一樣啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8076.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8097.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
一樣馬上我們要進到預算審查的程序為了讓預算審查更有效率啦這個國防部就預先該提供該說明的部分請詳盡做說明這個主席總統剛旁邊打了有補充一些資料有什麼事要補充的嗎最後一點時間沒有一般我們特別預算也都是有列分年的計畫所以每一年大概編列多少也都會提供所以這個部分也是很清楚的謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8098.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8127.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
好 那就反正我們希望預算的審查能夠順利那相關的溝通的程序其實前期做得越仔細預算審查就會有效率啦我們只能夠說我們是個預估嘛因為他現在邀請我們一年一遍所以我們還是會估OK 沒關係你有預估也好或怎麼樣但就清楚序名嘛我想接下來進入預算審查大家不外乎就是要我要知道每一年的狀況然後能不能預計的交貨期程嘛跟未來的不確定這就請國防部多費心了 可以嗎是好 謝謝我們結束劉許廷委員的執行我們休息五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8135.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8136.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
上洗手間幫我調按鈕 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8225.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8230.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8258.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8261.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
谢谢观看下集再见 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8286.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8306.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8329.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8329.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
然後再進入 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8349.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8358.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
谢谢大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8398.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8414.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
OK,感覺不錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8443.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8451.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
好的 請大家盡速就座我們繼續開會接下來請李昆成委員主席 可不可以請大家都就座之後我再來問請官員盡速就座 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8471.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8473.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
我們今天委員質詢時間比較長 請官員盡速就座好 謝謝 謝謝主席那我們請這個顧部長還有陳主席長請部長 請主席長 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8493.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8516.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
大家都很關心這個海馬士多管火箭系統的第一期這個頭期款要5月31號之前要到嘛要付然後現在我看這個部長剛才也回覆就是說我們現在已經這個申請這個緊急動之頭期款對不對那這個頭期款的這個公文現在行政院核定了沒 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8517.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8526.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
我們已經送到行政院了那核定的我們還沒有收到不過我相信應該會在5月30號以前應該會拿到5月31號之前會拿到 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8528.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8553.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
那如果拿到之後批了就確定了嘛不用再送這個立法院了嘛對不對行政院核定就可以了行政院核定就可以了那應該沒什麼問題啦應該沒有問題應該沒有問題啦因為這個按照預算法規定只要行政院核定就可以了是不是對 我們就先行之用好 那至少這個第一批頭期款五月底之前這個支付美方面有問題就對了 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8555.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8571.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
應該行政院核定一下我們就可以支付那再請教一下這一個部長那主計長先請回好了那我們現在這個海馬市的這一個系統我們有11套已經在台灣是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8572.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8591.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
是,11套應該已經交付了有啊,我看這個媒體報導說11套系統跟64枚飛彈全速運抵而且完成手射,是不是?是那這個第二套,第二批次,18套的這個系統還有這個精準火箭,大概何時會送來? |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8593.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8611.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
依照期程目前是在今年今年年底會送來是這個我們錢已經付了嗎這個錢是依照依照它這個每一季的所謂的帳單然後依照這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8613.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8624.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
美軍與合約商的預約 他們執行的狀況來支付好 那這個預算是編在我們的年度預算裡面嗎所以是 這個是 這個29套裡面是年度預算的哪一年的年度預算每年 每周年編列 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8629.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8657.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
報告員我們今年因為海馬市多管火箭系統它交運提前的關係所以現在這筆主要的預算因為有新增所以會在今年115年的預算裡面做主要支付那116年後面大概主要按款就會逐漸進入收尾階段好那所以說這個總共這29套就是編在應該是編在去年今年跟明年的預算嗎對主要這三年的預算是不是對那這三年預算編多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8660.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8663.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
那如果按照你們所說的這個另外有18套系統是年底會到那我們現在特別預算要買的有總共82套對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8677.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8692.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
對 這次特別預算是82套特別預算是82套嘛那特別預算82套大概第一批何時會交付目前依照發價書的概估時間第一批交付的時間是11919 2030年那其實如果今年交了第一批 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8702.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8726.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
這個特別預算要買這個那其實到2030年這個時間上是不是不知道能不能加快這個部分依照前面購買海馬仕的經驗這是美方在估計的時候一個比較保險的數據因為我們前面海馬仕簽約之後事實上第三年我們就已經開始進入交運程序那我可不可以講說最晚在2030年第一批希望能夠交付給我們可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8729.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8756.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
我想還要等美方預約之後然後合約商的製造的進度因為現在也不是只有我們一個國家在要我知道 這個我們都在爭取那剛剛很多委員關心那接下來的因為我們只剩下780億那有些被扣掉了那有些要編年度預算有些可能編追加預算那你的優先順序排列出來了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8758.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8777.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
我們現在逐一在檢討啦我們現在逐一在檢討我剛剛也提到了譬如說我們的要擴增的14條的這個彈藥產線對 那我們剛剛也已經提到就是說我們的基金本身不夠那我們要編入預算的話那要看我們的預算成長年度預算成長的程度 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8778.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8806.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
那是不是要放在就是今年邊明年的預算或者我們可以有這個空間納入到我們的今年的最佳預算這個順序大概哪些是年度哪些是最佳甚至有些特別大概哪時候會確定項目我只能說我們要跟行政院這邊商量那至少八月底之前要知道了對不對因為九月新的預算又來了啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8807.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8811.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
我最後再請教一下那個 莊部長主席不好意思齁 我最後再 我一分鐘時間把它問完 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8831.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8849.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
這個新青安1.0政策7月31日落日那現在你們在研擬這個新青安2.0那大家外界在想說2.0大概會緊縮啦那我簡單就問啦因為我上個禮拜有問就是說我們現在有育兒大禮包那我上次有建議的不論是7到18歲的子女扣除額 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8850.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8869.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
那育嬰住宅解免房屋稅跟地價稅你們都可以正面的回應那我現在再問一下啦那是不是我們的新簽2.0雖然你們有緊說但是呢能否針對準備生小孩或是說家裡有兩個小孩以上的家庭我們在貸款上面給予利率的優惠有沒有辦法這樣做 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8871.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8884.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
跟委員報告7月屆滿以後後續的清安的要怎麼樣做那會委員剛剛的建議也許我們會考慮這樣的一個方向那是不是利率或是以其他的方式來做一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8887.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8913.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
寬緩的一些方式都是可以考慮的方向那搞不好這個禮拜四行政院又公布了啊行政院會這個禮拜四應該是就那個就有關人口政策也許是這個方面那親安的部分因為到七月底截止我們說我們的方案應該會在六月底的昨天我認為說你們很多都緊說但是我認為因為現在如果說我們要鼓勵生小孩養小孩那是不是說在這方面的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
8914.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
8933.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
在新青安部分我們利率買房子的利率可不可以再降低一點這個青安的部分我們會另外的考慮會另外考慮所以有可能往這方面來發展就對了因為利率已經有相當的一些輔助的話那是不是以其他的方式也是可以考慮的這樣子好我們結束魯昆城委員的質詢接下來請顏寬恒委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
8944.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
8948.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
主席各位聯席觀眾大家好 主席有請官部顧部長請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
8956.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
8983.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
是 嚴委員好部長好我上次向您質詢的時候有提到說您有提到說每個軍公安都會成立專案辦公室密切協調那並同時舉F16V為例說明美方已經透過兩單制的趕工生產那目前產線連同是非已經打59架但未來若是再次發生普遍性延宕台灣似乎 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
8984.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9009.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
沒有實質的求償手段那眾所皆知對美軍購的是走政府與政府的FMS模式那LOA往往缺乏一般商務合約的延遲罰款這些部分這個條款所以說這個不對等那面對美方履事 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9010.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9024.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
因全球供應內貨產能調節而延遲交貨國防部在簽署本次特別預算的全新發價書的時候是否有積極爭取若因可歸則於美方或廠商之 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9026.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9049.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
之事由嚴當交付那其衍生之相關費用應由美方或其之席來抵充有沒有這樣的一個對等的一個條款在裡面首先美國政府對外的軍售是全球一致的也就是說依照他的安全援助管理措施他是不賺不賠也就是他不會盈利也不虧損的方式來執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9050.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9077.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
所有針對這個軍售的相關的問題都是以協商的方式來解決的那這些條款相關的這些都對全球軍購國都一致適用的那支息的部分呢我們按照規定所有在FRB產生的支息都一律要匯回這個國庫的沒有辦法轉做他用那所以這個我想審計單位都會監督這個部分所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9079.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9105.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
沒有可能透過這個所謂賠償的這個機制放在這個軍售的這個案項裡面那這個一旦發生有任何這個執行進度交易期程跟衍生的影響的時候我們都是要透過協商的其實部長我上次有提到說被低估的真正被低估的是匯率吧因為每一次我們台灣台幣對美的匯率只要波動一塊錢就好幾百億的台幣啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9105.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9129.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
所以說尤其是我們這一次軍購這麼多金額這麼龐大那面對美國聯準會以及國際局勢造成的匯率不確定性那我們是會有建議一套說制度化且主動的匯率避險機制例如索匯或者是其他的金融工具我上次質詢的時候你說沒有啦你說沒有那我是想說可不可以來研議這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9133.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9151.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
我們跟委員報告我們匯到我們在美國的FRB的帳戶我們都是要根據審計單位的規定就是說我們哪一個案項那因此收到要付款的我們就要先匯到我們的FRB我們匯到FRB以後再根據美方的這個帳單的要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9153.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9174.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
要支付我們再放到那個Trust Fund裡面去所以這個他都有一定的流程的那放在FRB有產生的這些支息也是要匯回國庫所以我們這些錢基本上原則上就要擺在那個地方是不能夠隨便做其他的動用如果發生剛剛委員提到似乎要做其他的一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9175.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9196.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
一些衍生的用途或者避險的一些用途這個產生的風險也是相當高的如果假設未來又因為美方的政策轉變或者是尤其是在川習會後那現在國際政治對台美國對台的軍售政策也有一些波動 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9196.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9215.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
因為有些變化那未來因為我們的這個導致這些項目我們軍購的項目擱置或者是暫緩那我們已經截角到FRB的部分這些裡面的投機款或者是階段款那後續的包括退款保全或者是轉充機制都沒有這些都沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9217.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9233.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
匯款的什麼機制就是說我們已經結繳到FRB的FRB還是我們的帳戶沒有錯那因為美方的政策問題或者是對台軍售又發生了這個延遲或者是一些什麼樣的變化那我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9234.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9262.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
是否有明確的退款或者是保全這些部分這個機制有啊 就是說美方如果說有延宕他沒有我們就會我們有時候跟他協商停止支付以後會放在FRB的帳戶還是屬於我們的款項那這個就不會支付那如果全案結束之後大家會做一個清算結算之後如果有這個餘款的話這個案的餘款我們也是要匯回國庫那這個都是要接受審計部的監督的 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9264.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9286.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
所以其實我們國人真正擔心的不是只有軍購的問題主要是說我方投入這麼大量的國防預算可否建議獲得一個制度性的保障跟風險的控管這個部分我想如果因為美方的政策調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9288.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9313.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
產能的排擠或者是國際情勢的一個變化那對於這些相關所造成的這樣子的一些損失到底由誰來負責所以這部分希望國防部跟委員報告我要理解那個軍售的性質軍售的性質不是美方跟你簽個合約軍售的性質是美方對於你的安全承諾這是一個commitment |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9314.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9318.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
如果您把它當作是一個好像買賣雙方的合約來做的話來談這個軍購的話我覺得這樣子就沒有辦法有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9326.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9347.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
有一個清楚的一個了解FMF模式下我們所承擔的就是美國對我們的承諾而美國也對我們的承諾是說它不賺不賠然後它對所有的廠商跟我們一樣它都要去執行控管那麼它也有它的集合的制度它如果發現這個廠商的報價過高它也要把它降低這個廠商的執行進度不佳它也會催促它進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9353.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9368.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
這些都是基於他對所有的這些全球的軍購國他都會有這樣子的一個機制在運行這是一種安全承諾所以你要向國人說明清楚因為現在確實是很不清楚的一個狀態 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9369.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9395.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
尤其對於美國現在好像有一點誤解說好像以為美方是個賣方然後我們是個買方事實上軍購這個案子的概念不是是美國政府我們對美國政府所以我們每一筆錢都是敷衍美國政府我們在裝備盤我們沒有一筆錢這個龐大的預算都是我們國人的這個納稅的所這個而且跟委員坦白講全世界願意透過這個軍售 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9398.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9400.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
謝謝主席 主席有請莊崔雲莊部長請莊部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9427.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9438.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
我們讓顧部長休息一下那麼在莊部長詢答的時候如果複稅署這個宋署長跟國庫署陳署長如果要補充可以自行上網請宋署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9442.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9468.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
陳署長部長現在是報稅期我想要繼續剛剛李昆城委員所特別提到的就是有關新青安是不是修正然後未來可以對這個有這個兩位子女以上這個貸款的時候是不是有機會降低那麼我為什麼會程序他的問題是因為我們現在知道報稅期只要有子女的不論年齡多少都會有一個第一個減免的扣除額 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9469.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9493.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
然後如果說你有六歲以前學齡前的孩子一個兩個都有不一樣的扣除額第三個就是大學以後也有一個大學以後的扣除額但是本席聽到許多有孩子的家長他們特別提出一個質疑那就是對於他們現在正在就學從小學開始一直到高中 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9494.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9520.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
其實他們的孩子可能要上安親班可能要上補習班其實他們育兒孩子的教育費壓力一樣很大但是呢他們沒有這個學齡前的扣除了也沒有大學以後的學費的補助再加上孩子越來越大以後他們會面臨的是什麼房子要小換大 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9521.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9545.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
所以說本席要特別針對民眾在育兒上面的心聲搭配現在賴總統也宣布了就是要給這個所有育兒的家長從0到18歲有每個月的5000我們就是希望解決少子化的問題所以在這裡是不是可以請財政部包括負稅署 國務署去研擬搭配從新青安 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9546.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9565.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
去往後延伸就是像這種有小孩遇到小屋要換大屋的時候的貸款有沒有可能有更優惠的利率再來是在賦稅上面對於從六歲上學以後到上大學之前這一群家長他們面對的是多重的壓力 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9566.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9579.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
房貸的壓力小換大的壓力還有就是孩子要上安親班要上補習班這種其他的這種所謂學費之外的壓力是不是可以從這個部分減輕他們的負擔部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9584.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9600.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
謝謝委員的建議我們知道對於有關新的一個相關的人口政策的部分會提出一個全面性的一個戰略方向那這裡委員所提的有關租稅的部分對於這個未成年子女租稅的部分那在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9601.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9624.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
戰略裡面也會有考慮進去那對於居住的減壓部分也會考慮進去那至於那個親安的部分七月底屆期以後後續的一個方案呢目前大概也有一個方向那對於相關的您剛剛所提的部分都會考量進去是什麼樣的方式來協助這些婚育家庭他所需要的一個居住的一個需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9624.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9630.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
好 本席提到的希望能夠有全面通盤的這樣的一個研究這樣子可以說這個規劃會讓我們的所謂少子女化的部分可以有更進一步的解決方案會有更多的照顧措施好 那麼接下來我想要請問的是財政部跟主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9642.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9670.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
就是我想剛剛因為前面因為時間有限顧部長其實也做了很多的回應我就不再問他了因為我在國防外交委員會問他的機會很多這兩天我們看到的是兩天有數萬數十萬的民眾上街頭來挺國防而我們知道我們刪掉的絕對不是一個數字而是台灣之盾非常重要的作業系統現在在野黨要求就是要把這些放到逐年來做編列 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9671.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9675.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
砍掉的4700億如果我來除以8每年大概編列要將近600億剛剛本席前面提到的就是許多的這些所謂生育補助啊所有的這些減壓讓我們少子女化的問題可以來獲得舒緩那麼我就要請問了在國防跟民生的相關的底下那到底怎麼樣能夠來穩定我們的財政這非常的重要喔其實過去 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9698.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9720.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
我們也不是第一次編特別預算了包括過去遇到COVID的時候遇到這個天災地變的時候我們都有特別預算但這一次感覺上受到了在野黨的杯葛之後延宕到現在但是如果台灣之盾裡面少了作業系統那你就等於是買了電腦沒有啟動的應用的程式那擺在那裡是好看嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9725.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9729.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
那沒有整合你滑鼠連上去連不到電腦大家都知道那個箭頭不會動啊那麼其實有硬體沒有用那麼對於財政部負責管我們的稅入稅出主計負責我們的編列預算有辦法編下去編八年嗎那我們能夠等八年嗎那等於擺在那邊都生鏽了這個問題到底要如何來解決呢請問財政部跟主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9754.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9780.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
事實上它本身整個我們如果說一起8年它整個是每一年的高峰期不一樣所以它付款的時候有它的高峰期所以我們才會說以整個8年來算它的一個平均負債率或舉債的一個平均數那你如果說我今年剛開始我追加88億那對我總預算可能影響不是那麼大但是我明年就需要1000多億那它就會擠壓到我的年度預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9781.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9798.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
那所以這個部分就是必須要看說如果說在特別預算它它可以迅速又可以多年期然後又可以集中又可以大量這樣的優勢所以放在特別預算來編列這樣的影響是最好的但是現在被刪減的4700億到底是要用什麼方式來編列行政院政協國防部還有我們組總一起在討論說哪一些項目是適合在以特別預算或者是年度預算來容納 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9810.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
9830.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
這個部分也是正在研究我簡單來說因為時間有限我們看到的民意是支持這4700億的那麼到底現在是回到年度預算分8年每年編600億但是可能排擠到未來的下一個年度的某一些預算還是說您支持提出第二筆的所謂特別預算把4700億把它編進去 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
9832.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
9853.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
那他們正在討論而且他還要看他的性質而且每一年額度的多少也必須都去考量所以這個部分因為額度大了就受到擠壓那到底要擠壓哪些所以這個部分還是必須要整個做一個通盤考量以後再來做一個那主計長身為主計長你的建議是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
9855.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
9877.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
我們是建議是說像無人機產業的話如果可以啦是建議他用特別條例特別預算方式來編那其他的因為金額就比較小了這大部分是無人機產業而且是我們的重大的一個產業所以這個部分我們原則上是我會想說做這樣的一個建議啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
9877.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
9891.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
好 也就是無人機產業特別預算其他的在排擠性比較小的部分比較有機會回到年度預算來做執行是好 謝謝好 我們結束林楚英委員的質詢接下來請羅美玲委員謝謝主席 有請顧部長請顧部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
9911.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
9922.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
部長好 部長我們今天有翻頁了一下國防特別預算的預算書然後發現說這裡面有把對美軍購的項目還有數量 金額從115年到121年都有非常清楚的 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
9937.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
9948.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
提列出來喔那當然我們可以看得出來說特別預算呢它是具備長期的這個預算的這個規劃那對於廠商來說呢可以提供可預期的長期的這個訂單來強化廠商對這個軍工發展的這個信心呢也有利於擴產於 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
9955.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
9966.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
長期的這引發的這個規劃可是很可惜呢這次國防特別預算呢在野黨呢就是把它定調為就是對美軍購原先呢我們所規劃的這個AI的輔助系統還有這個無人載具啊還有台美合作國防自主等等全數呢都刪除了那在野黨說因為這個沒有解剖性呢其實這些全部 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
9983.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10010.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
都可以列入在一般的這個公務預算那原先呢尤其是這個無人載具無人機的這個部分本來我們現在應該是處於規模化的這個關鍵期那之前我們曾經就有對外說明了我們的願景是將台灣打造成為無人機民主供應鏈的亞太中心那我們的目標呢是在2030年呢我們的產值呢要達到新台幣400億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10012.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10016.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
目前我們也可以看到從2024年到2025年原先的產值從50億成長到129億等於是成長了2.5倍2024年到2025年我們可以看到整機外銷的產值是成長了20億倍從1.4億元到29.5億元這麼好的一個時間我們也看到說無人機 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10038.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10045.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
的這個商機也讓很多的這個無人機的這個相關業者呢投入目前有267家那從業人數呢大概是3000人所以我們看到一個非常非常好的這個願景那無人機呢它不是並非一個單一的產品它是牽涉到像飛控導航馬達引擎光電通訊還有AI辨識等等喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10062.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10082.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
这些都是一个非常完整的供应链对台湾来讲对台湾的这个相关产业来讲原先它是一个非常好的一个契机可是很可惜很可惜我们在国防特别条例把这些全部都删除了那在野党就说那你可以列入在 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10083.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10108.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
一般的預算裡面剛剛我們主席講也有提到絕對會造成一些排擠那甚至呢我們還看到我們還看到我們現在正在審這個審這個特別審這個特別預算之後其實我們還在審這個一般的預算本身有看到除了特別預算的這個無人機被刪除之外呢像軍備級的無人載具前章技術多元整合開發計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10109.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10133.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
也被在野黨的委員提案簡列那陸軍司令部的無人機反制系統呢也被提案全數凍結高達四億那另外還有海軍司令部的無人機反制系統呢三千多萬也全數百分之百被凍結好我們現在說這些都不是都不是那麼的急迫性國防特別條例 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10133.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10155.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
被刪除列入這個一般預算的這些之前的這些無人載具也全部被凍結不是被凍結是被剪裂所以我們在想在野黨的委員難道對無人機產業呢是有仇嗎所以我現在請問我們部長像我們無人機產業本來有一些很好的願景那經過這些之後呢未來會是一個怎麼樣的走向 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10156.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10177.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
我想委員提到一個重點我覺得它有三大意義規模化的三大意義規模化第一個加入我們全球的民主供應鏈第二個強化我們的國防自主韌性第三個符合我們迭代創新的一個需求那我想這三點都是我們現在要規模化的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10178.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10193.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
一個理由也就是說我們要規模化以後我們才能夠加入整個我們現在全球正在進行的這種民主的供應鏈然後排紅然後我們也要有規模化我們才能夠在一旦發生緊急狀況的時候我們有國防自主的能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10194.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10211.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
那另外就是說基於我們這個無人機我們的這個在半導體也好我們在晶片的製造也好我們在相關的這些您提到的這些相關的包括不管是飛控導航這些然後通訊AI辨識等等看看我們都有這個透過規模化把它 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10212.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10228.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
逐步的逐步的迭代創新來做提升那這些都是很重要的一個那國防部就是作為一個最大的需求單位那我們用這個需求來帶動一定的規模的產生這個是一個很重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10229.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10244.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
那因為在野黨一直有提到就是說你無人機產業我們現在這個要有急迫性要有怎麼樣但事實上無人機它就是一個很特殊的一個現在在新型態戰爭之下的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10245.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10264.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
大家都在看重的就是您提到規模化的關鍵期所以如果不透過這種長單具有經費穩定來源的情況之下這樣的規模化是沒辦法建構的那因為這個規模化的建構還不只只有台灣的本地的這個200多家的廠商要投入還有包括國外要繼續的跟我們國內來進行技術的 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10268.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10273.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
合作包括研發包括移轉包括共同生產這個力量還有這個趨勢我們不可以放過它 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10281.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10302.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
所以正义党就说他们声称说他们都支持无人机产业可是呢我们可以看到说不管是国防特别预算不管是一般的这预算不是山不是山就是就是洞像这种状况的话无疑当然是影响了我们整个无人机产业的这个发展嘛所以像这个的话我们有什么对策呢请问部长这部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10304.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10329.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
剛剛主席長也講了現在就是我想我們根據某一些案項有一些案項我們如果可以編入年度預算或是追加預算那如果真的要提特別條例要怎麼提這件事情我們也要跟行政院就包括主席總署財政部這邊我們好好來商量一下所以很可能會提一個無人機產業特別條例嗎部長這個還在思考的範圍之內 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10330.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10332.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
主席好 有請主席長請主席長 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10354.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10382.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
委員長我們條例過去在討論的時候多半比較跟國防部這邊在做一些討論所以今天難得主席長在我就跟您討論一下有關於錢的部分預算的部分現在在審115年的同時也在審特別條例的預算基本上我們有稍微對了一下就是說我們有很多延續性的軍購的案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10384.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10399.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
那我們去大概列了一下齁就是在我這頭影片上有好幾案呢應該是到115年就會到期所以我們大概計算了一下齁大概到期的那個數量大概會到118億左右主席長這個數字對嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10403.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10427.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
大概115年會到 因為可以釋放出115年到期就有兩筆嘛一個是新日戰機採購298海鷗398海鷗風戰力提升293有兩筆應該會有一些這個在年度預算的那個額度可以釋放出來主席長懂我意思嗎這是特別預算的 不是年度預算的 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10427.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10448.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
對,我說這個都到齊了嘛,這幾件啦,就是在,大家應該看到我的那個,所謂的那個投影片上面,大家看到,有好幾件是115年的嘛。國防部提供的吧。喔好,也許國防部會比較清楚一點。 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10449.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10473.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
那個都是多年期的延續的案子嘛我們去查一下那個跟委員報告你列的這個可能是持續性的軍頭案不是擺在特別預算的裡面那特別預算有兩個一個是海空戰力特別提升一個是F16B的那裡面還有一個韌性的特別預算對所以我說不是我的意思是說就常規年度預算來說應該會有一些額度會釋放出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10474.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10495.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
因為我們現在在討論上有一些這個計畫案軍頭的持續案就是這樣子就是說我們每年編但是一個多年期的一個計畫案那它今年可能會有多少要付款那就會在我們的軍事投資這個鄉下嘛就把它編到那裡去所以115年我們才會說持續案以外要新增再有新增軍頭案才只有84億 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10496.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10510.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
這些是軍事的投資暗巷我們要持續的護管那尤其這兩三年是一個護管高峰期所以我的意思是說是不是有些已經在一百一十五年就會結束明年度一百一十六我現在說的是一百一十六了會不會就有一些額度可以釋放出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10512.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10530.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
額度 對就是116我們還是會有持續的案子要報委員那個116是不會有有多餘的額度可以用就是這個到期還會有新的再加上去對 因為我們之前已經說明過了前面我們已經暫緩了12個重大案項高達760億了然後我們這一次特別預算案項裡面沒有納進去 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10537.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10553.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
執行的這些案項也必須檢討有部分會放在公務預算裡面是是是所以我關心的就是這一塊啦因為今天是不是 基地不排擠對就是我當然很關心說如果嘛因為現在看起來行政院這邊說有三種可能的方式嘛那我現在就問的是說年度預算上 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10554.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10570.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
還是說有可能會增加主委長有沒有可能像今年額度好像相較114我們現在省115大概還是增加大概200多億所以這個部分鮑委我們現在要確定的就是說我們在這一次總預算檢討完之後有多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10571.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10580.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
追加的額度可以容納接下來我們才去檢討後續有多少空間第一個就是說我們現在要編116年那我們現在要看116年主席總書給我們的國防預算增加到多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10589.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10609.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
那我們就要看我們現在沒有納入特別預算的案項還有我們本來就要新增的這些案項我們要排一個優序主席講對啊所以剛剛部長說你覺得116把他排進來那如果真的有一些不夠我想我們會建議主席總書讓我們同意擺入今年的最佳預算是大概是有可能會這樣來處理嘛主席講你覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10613.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10640.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
這個對於整個啦 國家的財政上您覺得這個因為大家很關心啦 我很關心啦 因為有些可能大家常說要編到年度預算去嘛是 那我們現在正在籌編116年度的一個總預算嘛那現在各大單位他會進行審查那中長程計畫或者科技預算包括我們法律義務應該編列的相關經費還有包括一些社會福利相關的一個經費那今年到底要不要調整 還有包括要不要調薪 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10641.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10646.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
所以這些都拿進來之後那我們還要看今年的那個國防預算到底是GDP要成長多少這個部分納入考量之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10659.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10678.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
因為北約說他能不能有多少的額度去承擔說他所要增加的一個金額對 甚至北約的時候我也大概算了一下我們剛剛過大概過3%左右如果我們要維持這個部分可能這個主委長可能還是要稍微傷腦筋一下對 如果要維持3%至少還可能要再增加國防預算要增加2000億那這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10682.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
10704.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
我今天要質詢就是現在想知道一下啦因為難得看到主席長因為這個是錢金費還是非常重要是所以這個部分其實我們一直都在試算試算說大概是需要多少那將來有沒有相關的排擠不用那這樣子在稅務的部分是不是能夠能夠支應這個部分我一再的在試算謝謝主席長 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
10705.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
10723.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
那我接下來就講這一張啦這一張就是剛剛也有前面委員他也在討論這個海馬仕的部分部長這個應該剛剛聽起來我剛剛聽前面這個委員問應該是沒有問題嘛因為5月31號好像要到期就是不管是簽署或是投機款看起來那個部長這邊都已經在處理了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
10724.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
10744.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
我們預算由行政院送到立法院之後就可以依照預算法的84條那也感覺為就是說我們同意就當時在協商也同意84條我們可以先行政院核定就可以先行致用所以海馬市應該現在是沒有什麼應該是OK的啦我想我們已經送到行政院行政院應該很快就會核定好感謝 謝謝部長 謝謝主席長 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
10745.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
10761.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
好 謝謝我們結束王安祥委員的質詢接下來黃建斌 黃建斌 黃建斌委員接下來王世堅 王世堅 王世堅委員不在來 黃仁 黃仁 黃仁委員不在接下來王逸川委員好 謝謝主席我們請顧部長 謝謝請顧部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
10778.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
10804.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
是 王委員好好 郭部長這個我看你們編的這個今年度的預算裡面有一個共同的用字叫做辦理武器裝備構置及備料整體後勤資源等所需經費這幾大項加起來大概八十四億多你可不可以大概講一下這個每一大項的這個內容大概是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
10805.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
10831.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
您說的是指我們全受期維持的後勤成本這一例?不是,就是你們每一個,你們現在總共有六大項嘛六大項裡面的每一個一括號都是辦理武器、裝備、購置及備料、整體後勤支援等所需經費嘛那在每一個都有個別編的,譬如說自走炮的部分,裡面編了39億多嘛對,那個是軍購款 這一些大概項目是什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
10832.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
10861.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
那個是軍購款 主要就是軍購他裝備款跟手機準備款講白話文一點 這個是什麼是一個頭期要付的錢還是第一年 第一年要付的錢不是頭期 第一年第一年就是說現在因為要求我們一年一編嘛一年一編的話我們就要有一個首期款還有我們的應該現在已經快到初期的配料還有第三季 第四季要付的錢今年 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
10862.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
10885.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
所以就統稱在每一項都叫這一個名詞嘛對對對然後他還有一個再會進一步有一個說明對好那你們的大概就是還有一項叫做採購作業費就每一項都一個採購作業費這個金額其實都很低這個是每年都會出現的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
10886.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
10911.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
對 每年都要編列 因為採購作業的話原則上就是我們跟美方預約之後我們包含在政府採購網上面做公告跟相關的行政作業所需要的錢那我們都是依照過去的經驗來核實編列好 接下來是你們把這些有些計畫我看是五年 有些六年 有些七年每一個不一樣 對不對那這裡頭的每一個數字啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
10912.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
10930.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
都是跟美方在這個過程中討論過的數字是吧報告員這個目前都還是屬於美方安援機關在發價書第一版發價書裡面給我們的預估時間確切的時間會等到他跟廠商預約完之後會再跟我們做確定然後我們再修訂發價書對我是說這個時間這個時間沒問題我說裡面的金額 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
10934.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
10955.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
就每一年你們都訂了一個金額這個金額是跟美方討論的過程中美方希望第一年第二年個別是多少費用然後你們再加上我們國內自己的作業費用然後去算出來的每一筆是 這個是美方給的初估的報價虛款值OK 那再請那個主席長請主席長 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
10963.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
10990.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
好主席長這個公安部的這個每一年這樣子編的個別的數字嘛這個站在主計總署的想法裡頭看法裡頭這樣子你們是尊重還是會跟他們討論我們也會跟他們討論有時候是額度的問題就是額度的整個成長的額度是不是要這麼大這個部分我們會整個做一個討論這麼大還有每年的配置呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
10992.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11006.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
也會跟他們討論一般美聯的配置原則上是尊重他們因為他實際要交款交款或者是說他貨有沒有到達這他們比較清楚所以這個部分我們尊重他那我們會針對整個額度的部分來做跟他討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11008.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11031.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
整個額度你們怎麼跟國安部討論?國安部就叫美國有一個討論的規定那你們怎麼跟國安部討論?不是,因為我們是針對他整體的需求比如說116年他提出的需求,那可能需求非常的大那我們可能在我們能容納的額度裡面去跟他談讓他要必須做優先順序的一個排列 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11032.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11054.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
那如果這樣子的話這一個是特別預算對不對特別預算又另外排除在那個特別預算裡面的東西是沒有放在總預算我知道那特別預算裡頭的這些額度啊每年他們現在國防部有算了一些數字就在我們這一本裡頭嘛那這裡頭這些數字各個年度的配置就尊重國防部好那總額呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11057.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11078.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
總而的部分也是尊重他們因為這是根據特別預算的部分他有特殊的一個需求有因為重大的一個緊急的需要還有本身必須要大量的購置這個部分我們也是尊重好 國安部的你們尊重那請問之前那個馬太安溪的那一個特別條例也就提出來你們也尊重嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11080.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11097.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
馬太安西條例的部分他是提出來但是很多他必須去現場看他是條例先通過主要通過原則性的東西然後再來就是現場去看原則上看出來大概需要多少再來籌編預算所以馬太安西的 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11098.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11114.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
狀況是跟這個有點不太相同然後他回來之後他工程會他還會再審查審查之後他才會審批預算編了之後工程會還會實際去做看去審查說議題報這個是怎麼樣符不合合然後才會 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11115.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11137.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
這個比較清楚啦那這個國防特別來這個因為涉及國防部就是他們這一個建案了蠻長一段時間嘛那這裡頭的這些數字項目原則上大概都會都尊重國防部對 跟委員報告大家就說這個特別事項會適量一個裝備款那裝備款就算美方的要求我們就是美方 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11139.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11156.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
過來多少錢我們就會付給他嘛那另外附屬工程的部分我們就會按照我們的相關的這些軍事工程作業所設來編那出國的經費部分我們就是按這個派員出國的審查計畫的審查作業的要點我們來編列何時來編列出國所需的經費採購作業會不會一樣我們有相關的關於國軍的這個採購跟外購軍品作業費的資用的項目跟編列的範圍我們就來編列那原則上 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11167.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11189.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
他就是一個雖然是一年一編啦但事實上你也知道他就是有一個總額嘛那我們每年就按照這一項的進度來編如果主計總署都尊重國安部因為這個國安部已經建了好幾年的案子嘛但是事實上我們也要接受審計部的監督啊好 OK 謝謝謝謝我們結束王逸川委員的質詢接下來請陳冠廷委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11198.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11198.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
我們請部長請部長是 政委好 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11209.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11227.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
好 部長好 部長我看接下來的特別條例通過之後再來就是特別預算那預算其實裝備的部分就是如同剛才很多委員都已經有提到的那就是一年一邊隨著接裝的狀況我們再付款嘛就是接到哪 付到哪 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11228.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11247.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
其實差不多每一季美方會給我們帳單我們就根據這個美方的帳單美方不賺不賠嘛反正美方給我們帳單然後依照進度我們就來付款主要可能在野黨可能提的案比較多的應該會是附屬工程吧你們現在已經有掌握到在野黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11247.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11263.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
的委員們目前提案的狀況嗎或者是在溝通的過程中提案好像要到下午下午嗎今天下午四點那在溝通的過程當中應該是沒有什麼阻力吧應該因為這個特別條例其實也審了蠻久的那裡面的 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11264.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11284.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
不管是自種砲、多管火箭、無人機系統,大概也都已經在條例的過程當中某種程度預算也大概都講過了,應該不會有太大的問題目前聽到是這樣,可能就是附屬工程或者是出國旅費最多就是部分的凍結或者是減劣,大概是這樣子,目前聽到是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11287.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11302.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
報告委員其實今年度的那個預算裡面有關附屬工程還在先規階段所以他的額度還是很低那這個部分先規如果砍了的話他就會牽動到後面我們的執行期程的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11303.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11320.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
所以這個先規如果說委員有提案要刪我們還是會全力去爭取因為畢竟這兩個部分它的工程是絕對不能延宕的應該是不會有這樣子的問題吧因為看起來大家已經對特別條例有共識了沒有會在先規的部分做做刪減的這個動作吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11321.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11337.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
對 因為就附屬工程的部分 今年能夠執行的期間也就剩下這些人那大部分都是在先起規劃這個部分那附屬工程的部分我們比較關心的是特別是在這個掩體啦 或者是這個主戰車堡的部分那 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11339.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11356.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
整個的基礎的作業那到接收應該不會有所謂的空檔就是或者是說不會有這個真空期間就是東西還沒有建好那裝備也來那可能沒有地方存放這樣的問題應該不存在吧所以這個因為很多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11357.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11378.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
相關裝備的交易大概在119年開始那我們就期望從現在115年做先歸然後一直到118年之前就119年之前能夠把所有包含到這個附屬工程裡面的掩體和彈庫相關的維保去一併把它完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11381.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11405.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
維護然後還有這個彈庫或者是這個主戰車堡等等我現在是有一個比較擔心的部分就是隨著現在的珠網行動大家也知道烏克蘭直接是滲透到敵後那直接把不管是有沒有在機庫的有在機庫的或者是直接存放在外面的他們直接用他們的無人載具來直接摧毀掉那所以我們未來針對這個主戰車堡輔戰車堡彈庫 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11410.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11430.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
這些比較重要存放我們重要資產因為我們花了很多的經費要買到這些高性能的武器特別是包含我們的發射車彈藥車這些都是還有這個直管車這些都是非常重要的軍事資產那我們竟然採購了這麼重要的軍事資產因為我們相信它能夠有效的來去遏止中共 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11431.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11450.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
如何存放或者是保護我們的戰力就非常重要那所以說我們現在的這個主戰車保或者是輔戰車保等等的我們現在的設計的考量是不是不能夠再用過去的標準我們相關的需求我們依據美軍的抗炸的準則裡面規範來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11452.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11478.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
我根據準則有沒有想說因為我其實不僅不想要進列不想要凍結我是希望說我們可不可以思考一下考量最新因為美軍的這種戰術等等的就很在適應現在的戰場的話可能會遇到挑戰我們有沒有辦法來考量一下最新的在烏克蘭也好在伊朗的各種戰損來怎麼樣加強我們在附屬工程上面的這個投資我知道說 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11479.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11494.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
最後的國會議員他們當然都希望刪減動但是對我們來講我們是希望我們的軍事資產得到保存那甚至我們要更好的規格或者是不是甚至更好的規格是不一樣的保護模式是不是可以請呃規制來思考一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11496.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11518.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
我們主要武器裝備的防護不是只有蓋這些掩體雕堡而已這是整個配套的所有配套的一環那這個部分包括外圍的反那個偵測然後電子漆又等等以及偽裝的假設施然後分散配置這個是我們作戰部門裡面他會有一個完整的規劃那目前在 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11520.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11534.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
可以公開的部分我們當然就是戰保的這個部分其他的因為屬於比較機敏性的部分所以不便在這邊說那其他的部分我們是用公務預算來去做補充嗎我們有很多個管道來做這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11535.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11555.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
當然公務預算的那個部分主要是偵測裝備的部分包含我們前面那個反無人機系統跟無人機偵測系統的那個部分就屬於公務預算的部分那其他的我們還有一些安排好 謝謝喔 我再次強調我們的軍事資產得來不易啦 我們也是經過 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11556.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11573.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
很多時間來跟在野黨溝通那現在這些高價值的軍備來了之後那如何保護這些我們重要的軍事資產那在一般預算也好要怎麼樣來去補充這樣子的能力我們要放在心裡因為說實在話戰場變化萬千嘛謝謝委員 謝委員指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11581.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11598.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
謝謝 我們結束陳冠廷委員的質詢接下來沈博洋 沈博洋 沈博洋委員不在林書斌 林書斌 呃 劉書斌 劉書斌 劉書斌委員不在鍾嘉斌 鍾嘉斌 鍾嘉斌委員不在陳永康 陳永康 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
11601.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
11619.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
陳永康委員不在好我們今天發言登記的委員舉行答完畢本次會議委員若有相關的預算提案請在今天下午4點前進送財政委員會會議室讓議事人員收件5月27號上午9點繼續開會處理預算提案謝謝我們散會謝謝休息謝謝 |