| IVOD_ID |
17452 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17452 |
| 日期 |
2026-05-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-36-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
14 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2026-05-20T08:35:32+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-05-20T10:25:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
01:49:28 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8d241381c4f8c7fc28af0f0e72e77d22a91284a5a3d0aa8b601341028818003d8ba0c4ac32f59bbd5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-05-20T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：一、繼續審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於行政院人事行政總處及所屬主管收支部分。
二、繼續審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於行政院人事行政總處主管「中央公教人員急難救助基金」收支部分。
【5月18日、20日及21日三天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:35:32 - 10:25:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1749.444 |
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1768.063 |
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來 我們繼續開會介紹到場的委員跟應列席的觀點我們先介紹到場 在場的委員這不用說了 這個最專業的今天又特別美麗的我們翁曉琳委員這 因為頭要吹到大聲這樣不然待會要預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1771.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1788.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
接著我們介紹應邀列席的官員我簡單介紹一下政務副人事長張秋元副人事長還有公務人力發展學院副院長廖英長廖副院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1790.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1814.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
阿哥繼續 其餘列席的機關代表我們就不再逐一介紹請參院名單並列入公報記錄那我們今天本日會議三天一次會第二天的一個會議議程的排定我們就討論事項繼續審查115年度中央政府總預算案裡面關於行政院人事行政總署及所屬主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1815.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1825.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
收支部分及中央公教人員急難救助基金收支的部分所列的兩案我們前面經過本會第12次全體委員會會議報告及詢答完畢決議均另定期繼續審查預算提案在5月13號下午2點截止收案今天我們就來繼續審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1838.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1849.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
那現在進行討論事項我們先請議事人員一併宣讀本日的討論事項個案的全部的預算數及首收委員的預算提案宣讀時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1854.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1869.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
討論事項第一案115年度行政院人事行政總署稅務部分第二款罰款及賠償收入第七項人事行政總署第八項公務人力發展學院經營五列數第四款財產收入第八項人事行政總署 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1870.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1884.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
三十二萬二千元第九項公務人力發展學院三千八百九十九萬九千元第七款其他收入第八項人事行政總署八萬七千元第九項公務人力發展學院二十二萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1886.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1915.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
稅出部分第二款行政院主管第三項人事行政總署二十三億九千一百七十一萬五千元第四項公務人力發展學院三億六千零七十九萬五千元討論四項第二案行政院人事警政總署主管一百一十五年度中央公教人員疾難救助基金基金運用計畫請參閱預算書總收入六百二十八萬元總支出一百零五萬四千元本期剩餘五百二十二萬六千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1919.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1934.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
繼續選讀提案會政表部分行政院人事行政總署主管授誌部分稅出第二款第三項人事行政總署為第一案至第四案第一幕一般行政為第五案至第十案第二幕人事行政之政策規劃執行及發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1936.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1955.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
為第11案至第25案主決部分為第26案至第41案第二款第四項公務人力發展學院第二幕訓練輔導與研究為第42案主決部分為第43案至第44案以上提案及修正內容請委員參閱書面資料選讀完畢能預算數 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1963.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1987.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
我想是不是可以在今天正式討論之前我有一個程序性的問題我想說再確認好嗎好就是說是有關於就是我們這次討論的預算案因為在上個星期我可能比較晚到所以就不太了解後來我們整個的處理的程序是怎麼樣那我的建議是說是不是今天就是有關於這個已經如果說委員跟機關達成 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1989.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2014.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
對於提案已經達成有共識已經改了決議或是改了內容的話那麼是不是即便這個委員他不在場可是我們予以尊重他們的跟機關談的結果那麼如果說是委員這個中間可能有到但是中間有離席站著出去是不是他們的提案可以等到他回來的時候呢然後我們再一併做宣告或是用保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2015.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2033.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
那這樣的話也可以就是尊重預算就不管翁委員你當召委或者我當召委大家都一樣啦那其實是我們的慣例喔慣例都是不在場的委員的提案其實我們之所以說不處理的原因是你在二輪的時候啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2034.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2045.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
你本來 或者差異失常的時候 本來就可以提出來所以黑也不差 你說比如說歐盟委員你現在不在 你的提案我就不處理不處理你現在是二輪的時候 你照樣可以拿出來 一樣的意思是 我了解當然可以在二輪可以再討論但是只是說是把戰場又放到二輪那如果說只是說短暫 暫時離開那譬如說可能中間不上洗手間 或者是有道場啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2062.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2078.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
有稻草的我們就完全沒有稻草的話那當然就不予處理是不是我們可以保留這樣一個彈性然後也跟委員這樣的說法是更細緻啦就是說有稻草暫時離開跟沒有稻那確實是不一樣那我們就這樣子啦就沒有來的我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2081.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2107.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
提案我們就不處理那比如說你提案沒有來我們就照慣例就不處理他要再提案的話在二輪他本來就可以再提出來那你現在講的這部分就是說有來那先暫時離開但是我們不知道他當時還要回來如果有共識的當然沒有問題那當然如果說在會議結束之前他都沒有回來那當然就不處理好啦那就不處理對對是然後不過剛剛就是還在講就是如果說是沒有到委員但是之前已經談好提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2108.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2128.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
就是跟機關達成共識的有達成共識的當然就按照共識啦那第二個像剛剛翁委員特別提醒的就是說你有到那暫時離開我們就先保留但是要會議結束之前沒有我們就循慣例就不處理他要再重新提案就在二輪的時候再來就好了好不好好謝謝謝謝翁委員翁召偉的提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2135.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2156.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我們預算數跟所有的提案都已宣讀完畢我們進行討論以前先說明預算提案的處理方式就是說依照委員會處理預算的一個慣例稅入的部分我們叫來源別以向為單位稅出的部分我們就依機關別以目為單位來分別依序 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2157.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2183.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
來進行審查那各單位預算中於處理委員所提的增三提案以後其餘會涉及到預算的部分我們就照列那有關正式別稅出的預算隨同機關別審查結果來做一個調整那預算提案經由整理除了將所有委員提案裝訂成提案本就是這個地方提案本上次今天也有我們每次預算都會有 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2186.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2190.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
並在編列序號以後製作成會診表我們手上也應該有發給大家方便委員審查的時候參考接下來來進行審查請各位一併參閱提案本跟會診本來進行討論稍後經過討論決議修正的預算提案請機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2207.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2227.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
將修正內容經提案委員簽名同意以後呢記得要送到主席台才算並列入公報紀錄那審查預算的過程當中如有列席的幕僚在第一次答覆委員問題發言的時候也拜託麻煩一下自行介紹一下不然那個對話就不知道誰跟誰在講話請自行介紹職稱姓名 臂力公報人員的紀錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2235.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2255.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那我們現在來進行討論事項第一案繼續審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於行政院人事行政總署以及所屬機關的收支部分那我們先來處理稅錄的部分稅錄的部分因為沒有委員提案 稅錄的部分我們就照列 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2259.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2263.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
稅路我們處理完畢繼續處理稅出的一個提案我們先做說明我們處理的時候依照慣例是用木為單位那竹木進行處理那原則我們就按照這個會政表所排列的提案的一個順序請大家參考一下先由各提案委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2278.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2281.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
先就該目中的提案的內容來進行說明提案委員在該目如果有兩個以上提案時則一併來做說明再由機關代表予以答覆那之後呢再針對整目啊一起來處理然後來做成決議那接著處理稅出的部分請參閱 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2298.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2321.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
提案本跟會總表的說出的部分提案那由於所收到的委員提案當中第一案到第四案是第二款第三項跨個目的提案這是跨個目的提案所以先進行討論先由各提案委員就提案的內容進行說明那提案委員在本項 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2322.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2329.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
如有兩個以上提案的時候呢 則請一併說明再由機關代表來予以答覆現在是不是請這個是一到四案都是我們翁委員的是不是請一併來做說明好不好 再請機關來做答覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2347.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2370.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
好 謝謝主席 本席在這邊提了一到四案都涉及到有關於業務費 通訊費還有按日案件 計資籌金 一般事務費等等這些預算案的刪減那麼在第一案的部分本席這裡提出的這個業務費刪減主要的原因也是因為人種在1.5年度的業務費的預算編列為1億5500 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2376.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2380.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
47萬多那麼這個比去年這個成長了32%增加了3775萬那麼有鑑於就是說我們現在這個中央政府總預算整個很這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2391.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2415.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
這編列的過高而且這個政府的經費應該要開源節流要俊傑的支出那麼同時呢我們也看到就是其實人事行政總署在先前對於這個有關於公務公教人員有沒有拒絕的這件事情在處理上面可能有不當廉潔的問題所以呢本席在這裡有提案就是要簡列 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2416.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2440.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
業務費三千萬而且不得留用雲芝並且要凍結百分之二十那麼同時呢這個凍結的部分呢就等行政院人事行政總處有發函重申公務人員如果說沒有簽署拒絕不會有任何不利處分和懲處之後完成了這個法文之後呢那麼才可以進行解凍這以上這是針對第一案的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2441.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2445.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
那在第二案的部分是針對有關於通訊費的刪減的部分那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2453.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2469.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
原來也是認為說人總的這個通訊費在今年編列過高那麼如果說從12到14年來看那麼事實上他們的執行率也大概只有六成左右不到七成那麼沒有必要要編列過高的 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2472.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2477.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
通訊的經費所以本席在這裡有提出要刪減他們的通訊費150萬那麼但是經過跟人事總處的協調之後呢那麼就改成就是業務費50萬那這部分我們已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2488.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2504.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
有達成了這個有已經談定了就是改成就是刪業務費減列50萬然後科目可以自行調整這是第二案第三案的部分呢則是有關於按日案件祭資酬金 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2508.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2528.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
那麼這個部分也是同樣的問題就是他們在過去編列的按日案件計資酬金的部分其實執行率也沒有很高大概只有七成左右那麼事實上也沒有必要增加這個過多的預算費用所以考慮到 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2530.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2547.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
這國家的經費要遵截支出所以在這裡就予以刪減減列75萬而且不得留云芝那經過跟人事行政總署討論之後也是改成刪業務費然後減列50萬然後科目自行調整那第四案的部分是針對一般事務費的 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2555.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2559.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
一般事務費的刪減那麼同樣的就是在他們這次的一般事務費的115年的編列比114年是這個多增加了35%就增加了965萬那也就是他們今年是編了3717萬那比去年又多了 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2578.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2592.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
965萬成長幅度高達35.7%那麼事實上也是基於同樣的理由就是這個政府的舉債高達4千億政府各單位應該要量入為出尊潔公帑那麼所以本席在這裡是 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2594.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2615.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
提案刪減150萬同時因為人事總署過去有承諾說要將《軍公教條新法》赤化的草案送交立法院審議但是已經經過了一年多沒有看到有任何的動作將這個法案有送到立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2615.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2630.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
所以本席在這裡也提案就是檢列150萬不得流用雲芝而且凍結20%那麼等到人事行政總署將軍公教條件法制化草案送到立法院審議之後然後裁刑凍之以上就是本席所提的次案 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2632.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2652.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
好謝謝翁曉琳委員的說明機關回覆之前我看這樣子我看有共識的部分這個都有溝通嘛要我溝通以後第二案跟第三案那個部分就有共識了第二案就改簡列業務費50萬科目自行調整這沒問題嘛好那第三案溝通過以後就改簡列業務費50萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2662.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2680.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
科目自行調整,可以齁?好,那我們是不是請機關站隊於第一案跟第四案因為這是在這個科目,這個是AOA科目第一案跟第四案一併再跟翁委員來做一個說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2682.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2709.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
好 謝謝召委首先要感謝翁委員翁委員在極度忙碌的狀況之下還是有撥很多時間跟我們做討論那也剛才第二案跟第三案也謝謝翁委員的協助我們也做了說明翁委員也同意做一個修正那第一案跟第四案的部分我現在先就第一案的部分跟翁委員來做報告那第一案的部分大概是翁委員關注的兩個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2710.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2735.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
那一個是有關於這個預算的部分預算的部分這個成長比例的部分那最主要原因是因為114年的通案刪減的幅度是比較大的然後我們又是比較小的機關那個預算規模是比較小所以它的比例看起來會是大 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2736.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2759.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
那這個中間有一個落差是我們114年其實有辦過一次的追加預算那一次的追加預算大概是追加了1576萬元那所以如果並那個追加預算進去以後這一次的今年度的這個預算的增加大概是2198萬元在這個科目裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2762.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2789.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
那增加的是哪些必要的項目我跟委員報告一下就是增加項目主要都是一定要去處理的事情那第一個就是我們北棟大樓的屋頂因為它已經三四十年的房子那漏水那漏水我們就必須要做這個費用的分擔這個大概有兩百一十一萬七千元這屋頂的漏水還包括那個空調箱的修繕 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2790.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2809.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
另外就是有民眾建議我們那個B1的公共空間因為有很多民眾一直在用所以希望這個大樓能夠有無障礙廁所我想這個也是應該過去做不足的部分這個部分大概是這樣子然後我們自己的這個天花板的老舊 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2811.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2824.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
這個也是關於同仁的安全的問題所以要拜託委員協助,這個有174萬這是增加的部分然後另外比較大筆的是跟第四案有一點關係,這是出國 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2825.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2852.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
出國訓練跟出國進修那出國訓練大概增加了一千一百九十七萬三千那出國進修的部分大概三百五十萬那這個也是因為去年的這個通案刪減幅度比較大那後來追加的時候因為時間也比較緊迫所以這個中間就沒有再持續的去做追加因為也要能夠執行才追加 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2853.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2881.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
那這個部分我要跟公務員報告就是特別就是因為現在那麼國際化的環境之下我們還是希望我們的文官這個能夠跟國際有接軌的機會那跟國際有一些互動然後對這個世界的趨勢能夠有這個即時的掌握這個部分大概是花給全國的公務員不是人總處自己本身的同仁的費用 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2882.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2902.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
那這個大概就兩筆,然後另外是服務獎章跟公積獎章、楷模獎章的證書等等的這些費用這個也是要給我們全體的公共同仁,給他獎勵的時候用的這個大概增加了579,000塊錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2905.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2931.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
那這個大概就是我們整個的預算之所以會有這樣的變動那我也很抱歉因為委員的工作量實在是太大所以大概就是到今天的現場再跟委員做一個說明那第二個部分委員剛才希望我們這個重新發文去把它講清楚這個部分我覺得我們能做的部分我們可以來做了 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2932.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2950.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
那第一個要跟委員說明的就是這個其實媒體有夠報導然後主管機關陸委會也有出來解釋那個媒體報導跟事實有一點落差就是沒有要求限職人員每半年要去簽一次的這個問題這個陸委會大概也有做過說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2954.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2969.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
那是只有出任跟調任才需要去做這個聚集這個是第一點那第二點就是委員非常關心我知道委員非常愛護我們公交人員這個我們都知道我們是主管的機關我們心裡應該是一樣的那就是現職員 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2971.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2990.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
沒有簽的到現在也沒有人被懲處沒有人被懲處因為現在他本來就工作在那裡所以並沒有被遣除但是委員關心的的確是一個問題因為媒體會這樣報就表示可能我們的公共同仁會有些疑慮是不是可以講得更清楚那這個部分我們就來處理這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2992.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3004.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
那我要拜託委員說因為我們預算整理很少然後我把它報告清楚然後也請委員來協助是不是這個案子可以幫我們改成組決議然後我們來提報告給委員然後發文我們來發我們把這事情說清楚這就要拜託委員了委員那麼愛護國務院應該也會愛護幾乎愛護我們人事總署 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3015.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3019.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
謝謝副任事長的回答我們可以理直氣和的來談這個事情剛剛副任事長說我公務繁忙看起來是說我沒有仔細看你們的回覆事實上你們給我的每一個預算案的回覆說明我都有看 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3041.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3059.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
在我記得第一案你們給我回覆裡面完全沒有講到像您剛剛講的那麼仔細沒有列表你們到底要修什麼項目然後要做什麼事情我看之後非常的模糊所以我認為說既然是這樣的情況的話更何況就是說以去年的情況來說就算是追加了預算也是追加了1500萬左右嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3062.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3076.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
那麼已經也符合也夠用了那既然這樣的話為什麼還要再多增加了三千多萬那我認為說這是不合理的地方那這個地方的話就是基於就是國家的這個舉債已經高達四千多億我們又不斷有很多的特別預算的這個支出那政府機關本來就應該要尊潔使用經費要尊潔使用那基於這樣的一個想法所以我提出減列三千萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3088.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3102.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
那麼至於就說你剛剛講的對於公務人員的拒絕的這個問題的確就是引起了諸多的廣大的應該說引起了廣大的公教人員的質疑以及不滿那麼我認為說 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3105.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3128.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
主計總處應該有這個責任要再把這個事情講清楚那既然剛剛富仁市長也說了可以就是要再重新發函把這個事情講得更清楚至少就說是如果說公教人員他沒有出他不是出任或者不是調任的情況之下就算他不拒絕那麼也不會有任何不利的影響那既然如此那麼就 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3130.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3157.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
這個大大方方就在趕快重新發個函然後這個讓公教人員不會就心裡面始終就是忐忑不安不知道是不是今天有什麼沒有作為然後馬上機關又予以懲處或是列為這個管考就特別注意那我認為說這個部分的話應該要去做那麼因為我現在對於這個我們的政府機關包含人事行政總在內我沒有信心所以我一定要負解動條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3159.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3168.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
我解凍的數字我可以調整但是一定要解凍我一定要看到你們實際上有做了才可以解凍好 這是以上我的堅持好 請審發會委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3173.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3188.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
主席現在我們這個第二案第三案現在已經達成共識了第一案跟第四案我想這個性質上是針對這個整個人事行政總署的第三項的預算性質上是它的統三統動 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3189.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3213.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
那是不是我們先,這種統山統棟是最後大家先,我們先就竹木的討論因為我們等一下還會在竹木裡面去山這個去凍結這個那完了之後我們再來整體來看搞不好我們這竹木山了就已經超過它所凍結竹木凍結就已經超過它凍結的樹木了所以是不是我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3214.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3236.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
程序上面我們先逐目的這些案件案子我們先來討論那最後再來討論這個剩下第一案跟第四案這兩個這個等於是統山統棟的部分也有道理啦那一跟四它因為這個部分列在是因為它是跨目啦因為是跨目所以說你看那個第二跟第三我們剛好可以達到 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3238.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3257.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
有溝通過的,我們就先把它處理掉,那第一跟第四,現在沒關係啦,待會給翁委員知道他你要的是行政部門的一個說明啦,倒也不是說要用到預算的一個簡略,來好像說有一點對你們刁難,也不是啦,剛剛也做說明,但是呢,剛剛 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3260.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3277.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
這個省委員的說法其實我們也可以把它對照下來一跟四因為這是刮目不然我們就先保留一下待會兒大家先往下再看好不好可以嗎來那我們一跟四就先保留那接下來呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3280.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3280.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
第一案你們機關的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3298.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3324.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
你如果說會有共識當然也好委員拜託啦這個是不是不要動的部分我們會去做這件事那委員剛剛講的就是我們也接受啦就是我一個比較具體的建議是我們是不是就是凍結一個數字然後一個經費然後我們就三個月內提報告這樣那是不是可以凍20萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3329.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3348.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
我凍結百分之十還差不多然後呢那個檢列的部分的話基本上也還是要檢列啦因為這個你們是增加了三千七百多萬對所以呢我基本上的話如果說是考慮到說你們說還有同仁要出國去進修等等的話那麼大概檢列個一千萬左右然後凍結百分之十這樣可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3350.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3371.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
對 可以的話我們今天就 報告 報告委員 因為只有 或者是說我們沒有啦 不要喊價啦 就是說你們提出那個必要性再說明一下 因為你那個減劣的部分還是到一千萬所以你們沒有共識嘛 沒有共識就等一下先保留一下 等一下回來再處理啦 好不好來 這樣 接下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3374.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3388.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
現在接著從第一幕開始那依序來進行討論請參閱提案本跟會成本先由各提案委員就內容進行說明提案委員在本幕如果有兩個以上提案的時候請一併說明再由機關代表來做答覆那我們現在的第五嘛第五案改組決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3401.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3422.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
對,第六案我們已經跟委員報告了,國安委員同意改組決議OK,好,所以今天他沒來是合理的,他就想說,他就跟你們說好了第六案,我們就按照慣例,陳昭之委員還沒回來,我們就不處理那第七案,吳宗憲委員也不在,我們就不處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3425.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3430.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
那個有溝通過了第七案改凍結業務費50萬書面報告第八案改組決議第九案 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3442.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3462.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
這個你跟他們溝通好嗎?你這錢內85元,請翁委員來做說明我想這個是基於就是有關於特別費的部分,那麼還是同樣的理由啊,現在這個政府支出大幅增加所以呢,能夠尊潔使用就尊潔使用,更何況我覺得人事行政總署在薪錢的表現也沒有特別關照 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3464.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3482.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
我們公教人員有很多的事情 該做的東西也沒有做所以人事行政總處的人事長 副人事長難辭其咎那在特別費的部分 本席認為說應該還是要減劣九成然後三減八十五萬 而且不得流用雲芝 以上這樣啦 特別費保温 我們就都先保留了 好不好那第十案呢 就改組決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3494.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3521.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
11案 啊沒有沒有沒有 那是一般行政 我們這裡就先處理那是第二幕的喔 抱歉第一十案有跟委員報告過 委員同意改組決議對這個第一十案 有有有 改組決議了 已經宣告了 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3537.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3555.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
那我們第一幕一般行政提案案號從第五案到第十案第六案我們不予處理那第五案第八案第十案改為主決議那第九案我們就先保留那凍結呢凍結就是五十萬嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3556.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3578.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
提案案號第七案那並針對各凍結提案的要求依審查會決議來提出書面報告以後 使得動之那我們接下來來處理第二幕這個人事行政的政策規劃跟執行及發展提案案號從第十一案到第二十五案第十一到二十五 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3587.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3609.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
第十一案陳昭志委員這條我們照慣例沒有到場的我們就沒有處理那第十二案就已經溝通過了改為主決議十三案十四案我們就不予處理那第十五案我們是不是先請包括那個有共識的保安先處理掉這個阿伯 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3612.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3630.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
十六 改凍結人事行政的政策規劃執行及發展三十萬跟書面報告這有溝通過了好 那十七案是改凍結公務人員培訓及考用業務費十萬還有書面報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3633.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3642.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
第18案 改凍結零三公務人員培訓與考用業務費10萬書面報告19案徐毅臻委員改組決議然後20案改簡列50萬科目自行調整凍結100萬書面報告21案改組決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3662.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3683.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
23案改組決議24案取消檢列然後改凍結300萬書面報告那25案改組決議那我們現在回頭再來看一下從第15案翁曉琳委員請說明第15案嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3688.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3689.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
第15案主要是針對人事行政總署所提出的出國 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3699.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3724.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
出國考察的經費那麼這一次他們派員出國的計畫總共編了五項計畫那出國的地點都是新加坡、馬來西亞那等於是五個計畫全部都是排在新加坡跟馬來西亞然後這次的就是他們基本上的這五個團 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3727.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3744.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
呃的派出的人數應該是11人哦11人然後呃7天好他們現在是講7天可是呢本系不了解就是說是你都是在同一個地方然後呢呃而且編了五項的考察計劃這有必要就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3747.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3772.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
分成五個不同的計劃去我是支持就是我們公共人員要出國去看看然後出國去考察但是去的地點都是同一個地點而且呢有必要去11個人嗎如果說你考察的類型計劃上我覺得看起來是大同就是沒有差別很大是不是應該要精簡人力就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3774.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3787.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
這個可以濃縮到就是五個人然後呢分別就是去的時候呢就把這些議題就一併考察一併做個研析報告就可以了但是不需要就是說額外的又再編列 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3789.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3817.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
比較多的經費然後同時派了11個人一起去似乎沒有這個必要了所以本席提出來的這個想法就是出國考察經費應該要遵截使用提案簡列50萬並且不得流用雲芝並且凍結20%等到他們說明清楚之後然後重新提報過這出國考察計畫才可以同意准許使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3818.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3842.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
好 那接下來請張雅玲委員好 這題雖然沒有提案但是我聽翁小玲委員這樣講的時候我也覺得蠻納悶的為什麼都去馬來西亞跟新加坡我覺得這真的是有必要說清楚然後特別是說因為到底為什麼需要這麼多人次是因為考察不同的部門嗎不同的項目嗎我覺得這可能待會也要講清楚就讓大家比較能夠理解到底得到了什麼對於公務員的精進又是什麼這樣子 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3844.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3867.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
是啦,你是都沒地方去,都自己照顧而已,說明一下不是啦,不是這樣,就我另外一個思考,跟委員報告那,因為過去大概是比較零善事的,可能一團是兩個人然後一個人,那就一個業務,譬如我們有五個業務處那可能有人是管資訊的,管AI的,有人是管這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3870.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3894.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
友善職場的、勞動權益的、有人管相關的培訓的有人管退休、輔具、福利的這些其實它有不同的業務別所以才會編在各個不同的這個業務計畫裡面看起來好像是有五個案子這樣子大概是這樣就是它的業務是不一樣的那考察的這個項目也是不一樣的過去因為是零善的 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3895.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3919.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
那零散的就會造成的問題就是它整個這個完整度上面譬如說我們去考察一個國家那只就它的這個原額的管理部分去做了解那其他專業部分可能沒有被了解到那中間到底有什麼互相的影響其實在做比較研究上面是有一個會有缺陷在就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3920.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3947.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
比較容易有那個建樹不見林的那種狀態那我們今年就是特別把它調整就是希望比較集中力量去看某幾個國家所以今年選的就是新加坡跟馬來西亞就是在亞洲裡面算是這個新興國家裡面算是發展得不錯的那也跟我們的文化類型是比較接近的那 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3949.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3968.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
把它集中,把它集中,那看的它是一個完整的,是從頭看到尾的是一個完整性的,然後能夠比較深入的去探討它整個整體的這個國家它整體的人事制度到底是長的什麼樣子而不是片段的去說,我去看它的組織 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3970.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3989.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
那可能沒有看到他的這個這個待遇或者是沒有看到他的這個退休補續等等那只是把這些把它整合起來那他的這個運作上面是我們今年的規劃的構想大概是這樣的集中資源然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3990.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4018.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
當然也很感謝游泳園體游泳園也是支持就是說讓一些關鍵職務的公務員能夠跟國際有一些對接有這樣的經驗其實對未來我們國家的發展是好的不是說一直在國內這個就是對他的國際接軌跟那個前瞻眼光上面其實都會有一些影響啦也是說我們去做考察去做了解去做研究然後一方面也是對這個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4019.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4035.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
的一個經驗的一個培訓這個是我們今年去做這樣的調整的主要的原因還是要拜託委員能夠多給我們支持因為這是我們的構想跟委員做一個比較詳細的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4041.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4062.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
我這樣聽完我大概比較理解就是說看比較完整性的這樣在制度上面一起在推動的時候才不會有一些可能落差但是我還是很好奇就是說因為我們還是因為整個其實國家也非常多那澳洲對於公務員的照顧來說其實也是非常非常好的那我就不太理解去馬來西亞 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4065.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4075.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
是因為預算的考量所以你們沒有辦法去比較遠的地方嗎還是怎麼樣因為整個亞洲來說應該澳洲整個整體對公務員的照顧制度上面都是更完整的 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4077.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4102.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
你們兩個大委員說這個就五十萬了你們的行情都這樣沒了當然啦你們是在講那個就是請他們來做說明啦不然兩位大牌的委員在講這個五十萬的不然這樣子啦就是都有說明啊那個簡列的部分我們就取消簡列要凍結看要加什麼樣的一個解凍的一個條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4104.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4121.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
王委員你覺得按什麼情況之下可以解凍 因為金額很小我知道其實這個確實他的出國的考察經費是不多總共140萬左右那但是就是說從這件事情來講就可以凸顯出就是人事情總署在編列預算的時候在寫這出國考察計畫也不清不楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4124.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4129.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
而且確實是讓人家容易產生懷疑為什麼都是去這個地方的話分五個不同的計劃那麼看起來如果說一個團出去的話其實一個人也是過大了大概差不多六個人左右我覺得還比較適合六到八個人左右然後你都編到十一個人十一個人同時出去我覺得這也不是很合情理了 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4149.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4174.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
不過既然就是說剛剛這個莊委員講了嘛我們也基本上也站在就是鼓勵公務人員出去考察那檢列50萬這部分我可以同意就是我就不檢列但是我要求要凍結就你們要把這個計畫重新調整完之後然後我們看過沒問題我們再解凍好那第15案就取消檢列那可是要凍就凍5%好了好不好凍個5%然後凍5% |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4178.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4182.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
然後解凍條件就是書面報告使得動之好謝謝委員的支持那你的書面料你要寫給我們委員我們寫給委員看就是要呈送給我們所有的委員看所有司法委員看5%費用多少算一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4207.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4207.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
7萬9千7萬9千那麼麻煩 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4227.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4242.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
我們都是 沒有啦 我們大部分都是幾趴幾趴再去算因為這樣喔 這樣宣告的話對不起 七萬零九百七萬一千啦 七萬一千啦委員謝謝 謝謝我幫我們國務院感謝我們委員我給你們 委員會給你們一個委員輪番論戰是為了七萬多謝謝啦 謝謝啦來 阿咧 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4256.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4257.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
七萬一千書面來還有第翁委員第22案請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4276.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4294.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
那麼第22案呢基本上是涉及到人事行政總處這裡所編列的公務人員培訓與考用費用裡面的教育訓練費那這教育訓練費也是選送公務人員出國進修研習那總共編了4425萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4300.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4325.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
事實上這筆費用比去年要大幅成長90%左右增加了2750萬可是我們也是看到他說的要去考送公務人員出國進修的項目內容事實上沒有什麼新意而且去看的東西不是以前你們就有做過 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4327.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4354.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
所以我的意思說其實就這個教育訓練應該要做一些新的規劃而不是就是同樣的議題然後常常都是做同我看一下因為我忘記他們剛剛慢慢來對因為他們有講到就是他們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4366.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4381.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
就是他們送出國考察的部分 抱歉我這邊我沒有對他們說他們高階文官的考出國訓練的項目又包含什麼近鄰轉型社會韌性然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4385.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4398.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
還有就AI 2.0智慧國家轉型那這些議題不是過去就都已經就不是一個算是一個新興值得要去做 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4402.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4426.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
做這個學習的這樣的議題這是很老的議題了所以我認為說如果說是現在我沒有編列那麼多的計畫派高階文官然後去德國奧地利波蘭然後去學這些內容有這個必要性嗎來機關代表請說明一下台灣的AI的發展可能比德國波蘭都還要好比奧地利德國波蘭都還要好 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4427.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4455.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
那近鄰轉型也是一個很舊的議題了然後社會任性這已經也是老掉牙的議題所以我本其實認為說這個送高階文官出國培訓我基本上支持但是你們的想法要有一些改變不能夠都是用這種老議題以這個名目然後送這個官員出國而且要真的這些國家他們的發展是值得我們借鏡的 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4456.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4480.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
看你們是要去學習,還是要去交流,還是要去宣揚國威,說明來都有,跟委員說明,謝謝翁委員這個我還是要先抱歉一下,雖然翁委員都很認真看我們提交給他的報告但是可能我們的表達能力要再精進一點那我現在就用現場的口頭說明,再跟翁委員做一個報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4481.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4508.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
就是首先我講經費的部分啦經費的部分大概就是跟剛剛第一案我報告的一樣是因為去年度的這個通案篩檢的幅度非常的幅度大後面因為那個時間也有限所以追加預算的部分也是有限度的追加所以這個會有一點落差那所以才會有這樣的一個幅度啦那剛剛翁委員其實我們很感謝翁委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4510.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4521.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
也認為這個到國外去做一些互動在公園是必要的那歐元關心的部分是內容的部分內容的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4523.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4542.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
一個我們是對接國家的政策我們現在國內在做了幾個重要的政策像AI 因為它的這個速度非常的快可能幾個月就一個世代它迭代的速度相當的快那當然剛剛昭偉其實也講到了我們還是 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4547.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4561.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
在培訓的過程也一直強調請我們自己的公務員要有自信像剛剛公務員提到的那有些我們是不是做得比別人家好那比別人家好的部分我們可能就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4562.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4582.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
也利用這個培訓交流的部分也做一些分享也對這個國際社會做一些貢獻有時候台灣做的中華民國做的很好的是哪些所以AI的部分的確是這個好像美國這個體系新加坡這個有幾個國家其實是跑得比較快的 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4584.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4599.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
歐洲國家對所謂這個倫理的部分是比較關注的其實它是不同的思維不同的向度那也不是說它那個思維向度不值得我們參考有時候就是我們一定會講這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4601.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4619.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
快速的運用這個有效應用跟所謂安全的管理上面那些將來可能會造成的輪迴問題等等的其實都有參照的這個需求我們才做這樣規劃不過這個委員跟我們這個提示的我們也是很受用就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4621.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4649.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
像這些培訓的部分本來就應該要快速的去迭代這些東西就內容雖然這個大的主題是對焦我們自己國家政策那內容到哪個國家看什麼這個部分我會比較具體建議說這個還是拜託委員支持我們然後那個內容的部分我們再我們提報告來跟委員報告清楚希望也可以符合委員的期待 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4652.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4679.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
不過就是基於現在你們正在編的經費其實坦白說也蠻高的啦那麼我想這個整個政府的經費應該要遵截使用所以我可以同意就是少動但是檢列還是要檢列檢列400萬然後凍結的部分的話可能就是就是以就是希望你們能夠提出一個更完整的一個派員出國計畫然後還有就是題目培訓出去考察的題目也要與時俱進 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4680.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4691.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
我不要又都是看起來都是相同的什麼淨零轉型啊 社會任性啊 智慧國家這都已經是老掉牙的議題那凍結的話我可以同意就是凍結大概百分之五凍結百分之五 減淚的部分可不可以拜託委員我先問一下啦 都什麼人去啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4704.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4714.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
我讓我的那個...說明一下 看都哪些人去看翁委員會不會給你們支持 您是都想去報告委員 我是人事總署 信用處的處長我是陳雅玲那要跟主席跟委員報告我們是 這個是我們很重要的一個班期因為我們希望說能夠培養國家的中階 中高階跟高階的人才我們分別有這三類的人員來做選訓 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4730.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4733.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
那這三類不只是中央包含地方也一起會參加那這個班期呢因為這個是國家的一個重點發展人才我們希望說他不只是跟國外交流我們也希望他們相互交流所以這是我們辦理的這個目的那我們會選擇不同的主題班期那這個班期都是對接國家政策的一個發展的一個需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4751.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4755.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
它的那個層級像中階就是科長九等主管以上的這樣的人才那第二個中高階就是十一職等的副處長因為他未來是處長的接班人那再來是最高階就是十二職等的國政班我們是用十二職等以上的人員因為他們未來有可能就會變成是部會首長所以我們是用這樣子的一個結構來做班期的一個規劃跟選訓 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4778.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4784.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
那我們在這個調訓也是非常嚴謹的就是除了機關來做推薦之外我們還會去做訪查就是這個人確實是國家的一個重點的一個發展人才而不是只是來受訓來出國而已我們是用這樣的一個角度來做處理那處理完了之後他們在過程裡面其實是去做這個考察每一天都要交出國的一個訪查的一個報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4808.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4835.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
那最後呢還會有一個整體的一個成果報告那成果報告也會我們還會找外部的一個學者專家來做點評就是說我們希望他是真的能夠跟國家的一個政策去做接軌然後能夠對於國家的一個整體發展能夠具有貢獻那這是我們的一個目的所以才會這不是人種的同仁去參加訓練是中央跟地方的公務人員的一個交流的一個平台以上報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4838.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4864.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
我可不可以提一個建議就是因為現在其實這個旅費上面這個出國的經費其實都有在提升那因為這個也是重點的項目我拜託委員就是可不可以讓我們簡略我們現在其實不太清楚你到底要派多少人你們預計派多少人然後平均每個人的費用是多少對 因為我在這裡看的話你是一個人出國到100萬嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4866.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4868.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
包委員我們這個因為我們分成這樣的一個班期那所以像我們因為我們其實為了要也是要準節支出所以我們國政跟高齡他們會一起出國所以總共多少人次嘛你告訴我嘛你這邊寫40人嘛對這邊是40人40人編了4400多萬還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4884.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4903.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
就後面還有兩個就剛剛那個是中高階跟高階的部分那再來是中階就是九等的部分我們也是規劃有40人的一個班期那我就建議就是說你要把這件事情都講清楚你們預計多少人然後平均每個人的這個花費預算是多少如果說以我 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4904.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4931.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
以你們回覆給本席所看到的這個說明來講的話我看到就是四十個人啊四十個人然後呢分成兩班嘛然後每班差不多二十個人然後你們就編了四千四百萬你四千四百萬平均一個人的出國經費要一百萬這已經是過高而且出去有多少每個團員他出去要學習多久的時間你們都沒有講清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4933.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4945.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
是非常Rough的這個我跟委員很奇怪這問題在公教的部分在野黨跟執政黨有時候都常常被罵的部分就不太好好像今天立場有點轉變但是還是請說明清楚就好 來 張委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4950.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4965.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
我想就是說在這個部分聽起來翁委員在乎的就是這個細節上面並沒有陳述的非常清楚讓我們在監督的時候並不確定說因為你剛講的蠻清楚的啦可是可能提供給翁委員的這個報告上面並不清楚啦所以我自己在想說因為的確 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4968.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4995.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
剛剛聽起來是一個非常完整的接班計畫那自己我自己過去在企業在外商也都有這些接班計畫再加上現在的機票也非常非常貴那是不是呢可不可以提出你們詳細的說明那我們就減少一些可能簡略的部分還是希望歐元支持因為畢竟我覺得我自己在看因為我自己很關注AI的部分因為AI的這個更新跟AI的治理在全世界都是一直持續的在推進所以我覺得這塊對台灣還是非常重要但是就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4996.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5007.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
到底做什麼事情 成果是什麼這些都要非常的明確這樣子對於我們在監督這些預算的時候會比較真的是為人民看守這個荷包啦 好不好好 徐議政委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5009.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5024.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
謝主席本席也有提案第20案是針對這個部分那其實我想我跟溫委員的看法都是一致的就是說針對我們這個文官的培訓因為其實編的預算相當高嘛後來你們來說明說大概有4255萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5027.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5038.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
那這樣子的一個一筆這麼高的費用尤其是現在其實現在我們省總預算已經到五月份了那其實已經大概過了一半的時間了是不是還需要用到這麼高的一個經費嗎那剛剛我想處長有做了一個說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5042.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5061.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
那我們大概也理解說你們大概希望能夠培訓中高階文官的一個這樣的一個用意但是呢事實上我們覺得現在最大的問題還不是中高階文官而是就是已經離職就是年輕公務員離職增加基層的缺額也難補還有工作的這大的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5063.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5090.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
這個沉重的負擔讓他們不願意再留在公務體系所以說既然是要做這個相關的一個培訓的相關的工作我覺得也要朝著這個方向去思考啦所以後來當然我想這個預算你們已經編列嘛所以後來我是同意簡列50萬凍結100萬但是剛剛翁委員特別講到就是說到底我們這些人員你們派出去的40人花費的部分是不是真的要花費到那麼多錢那還有就是說一樣的問題就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5091.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5110.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
我到哪個地方去培訓 是不是一定要到這個地方好 現在就講好 這個整個的這個經費是相對我們需要尊潔的那很多地方其實都也許也許這個亞洲國家就有很多可以值得我們去做這個文官培訓的一個工作不見得要跑到歐洲 跑到其他地方好 以上 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5113.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5139.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
來 呃 沈發威沈委員這條不等了就要來你們說不下去 我等了就要來做決定喔 來這個 我想這樣子啦齁因為這個 剛才翁委員所提的這些意見齁其實最主要是希望你們能夠做細節清楚的說明啦齁那因為這個22案跟這個我們徐域森委員的第20案齁他其實是同一個 同一條預算啦齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5141.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5163.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
那是不是翁委員能夠同意就跟徐宇貞委員這個一樣併案我們就是這個數字就改檢列50萬那凍結100萬那我們主要的目的是要他提書面報告之後才能凍結這100萬的部分那是不是說能夠就併案就按照這個第20案徐宇貞委員的這個數字我們來整個併案併案凍結那翁委員你看嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5168.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5188.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
是這樣子這個我還要重申我基本上是支持我們的這個高階文官公務員然後出國去培訓去考察但是整個計畫要清楚然後更何況就是現在就已經四五月了五六月其實到年底之前大概這筆費用也很難會全部花掉更何況就是你們真的編列經費過高真的叫過高那麼徐宇甄委員這邊是減了50萬雖然我這邊是提400萬我真的覺得400萬應該要全減 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5197.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5203.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
但是你想說給你們一個機會那我認為還是要減我可能就是減100減100萬然後因為剛剛有講你們實際上那只需要4200多萬嘛4250萬左右所以連同最虛與證我們這邊總共就是減150萬然後凍結5%然後請你們提出這個相關計畫好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5221.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5226.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
那應該 要不要凍結100萬嘛 好吧就凍結100萬 我就不凍結5%如果說凍結100萬 那20案的50萬是一起併案凍就不是說他要凍50萬 你再凍100萬沒有 就是併案凍100萬 但是我要求他要再減100萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5244.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5262.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
減劣啦 你本來說減劣五十萬他現在變一百萬所以你不是外加再減劣一百萬不是減劣的部分就是他說我們兩個加起來減劣一百五十萬我的意思是說翁委員的意思他是說他的一百我的五十他說這兩個並非一起就一百 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5271.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5287.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
兩個一百啦好不好 兩個加起來一百啦很好玩的 今天執政跟在野的立場感謝郭委員的幫忙而且你們凍結一百嘛我覺得就減裂一百五十萬 然後就凍結一百萬啦這樣的話我想應該沒什麼問題 對他們來講綽綽有餘啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5289.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5312.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
這樣啦 我跟你們折衷一下啦 董委員 我折衷一下啦如果沒有這一點 我就要保留了 我看這樣討論這麼久了 罰這費他們不利喔那我沒有意見 那我沒有意見 好不好 我這個主席我就比較中立就我是認為啦 講那麼久了 讓四位委員 也把時間花在這一個第22 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5313.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5330.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
二十二案這邊有很長的一個時間 差這個五十萬 我也折衷一下啦就是說你那個檢列簿我們就一百啦 那個凍結的部分看要幾%啦檢列一百 可以啦齁 那凍結的部分要幾%也一百 書面值得動之好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5340.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5368.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
就尊重昭偉的意見啦沒有啦 我就大家盡量調和感謝各位委員跟昭偉的支持 謝謝這樣你們20到21科目要不要進行調整好 好因為我們病案嘛我們現在就兩個病你現在檢列我們都是不是都是檢的是那個公務人員培訓考慮費用啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5369.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5393.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
我們是減這個費用欸 4200多萬的 4400萬的這個費用不要有什麼科目之心調整是啦 沒啦 我會這樣調整的原因是因為二十案那個徐委員的部分是科目之心調整我不知道你們兩個會不會一樣 創意見會不會一樣啊那如果這樣的話那就不要併案了啊 那我這邊我就是減50啊然後就是 那我就不 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5394.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5396.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
如果分開的話那我這邊減50的話還是動5%你們要做報告給我好吧那就這樣子吧減50動5%是 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5422.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5438.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
要書面報告啊書面報告要給我那你們三個月內所以你們的這個就不能夠派人出國去考察你們需要那麼久的時間嗎好好吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5440.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5449.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
來第二幕人事行政的政策規劃執行跟發展提案第11案到第25案我們11、13、14案我們就不予處理12、19、21、23、25就改為主決議那簡列100萬這個除了以上個案以外本幕合併簡列100萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5466.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5488.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
那第二十跟二十二科目就自行調整二十二就沒有了對對對就二十案二十案科目自行調整不是沒有自行調整我是二十二案還是有啊二十是徐委員的部分他們有溝通好了那凍結 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5491.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5500.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
全部就678萬4千元這個並針對各凍結提案的要求依審查會的決議提出書面報告後使得動之那我們繼續主席請問一下這個24案我提的這24案可不可以這個簡短時間說明一下好不好來 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5518.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5535.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
二十四案你們都有公示取消檢列改動300萬數目報告但是我這邊是想要還是要說明一下我是很支持我們運用AI提升行政效率但是這個計畫因為牽涉到各自的問題所以我們針對包括去識別化 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5540.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5567.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
全線的控管 資安的驗證的部分我是覺得這個要特別的謹慎那當然這個人事總署有到本席辦公室說明這個計畫會跟國家高速網路跟計算中心合作相關的資安的風險然後把它降低那但是呢因為這個部分的話我們覺得審慎把關非常重要所以說我後來就同意凍結300萬然後請他們三個月內到我們向司法法制委員會提出書面的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5568.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5585.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
那也說明AI系統見證的內容資料使用的邊界還有資安防護的一個措施還有廠商管理的權限跟這個資料如果外洩的話這個責任的機制那已經同意厚實的動之那以上 謝謝好 謝謝許委員的說明那再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5595.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5612.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
這樣我們剛才那個跨目的部分大家看會審表的第一跟第四我們現在再回頭處理一下就是翁委員你這兩項看有什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5625.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5637.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
是不是請機關代表這邊再說明一下就是剛剛其實 歐委員對我們的要求其實我們大概都能 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5639.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5654.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
應該都能符合就是我們重新再發一個公文把它講清楚吧這讓大家不要疑慮那那個預算的編列部分大概剛好我大致做過說明這兩案都一樣就是因為114年的這個同案刪減的幅度比較大 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5654.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5676.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
所以然後後面因為追加預算的時候時間已經比較短所以沒有這個沒有辦法執行的部分他也不會去辦追加所以這個那個數據的落差是會是這樣產生的那今年這是我們盤點過必要要辦的就剛剛譬如剛剛那個其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5677.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5697.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
剛剛二十二案其實也有提過了,就是剛剛出國那個是有那個費用大概就一千多萬都已經增加的部分其實也有講過了那剩下的其實就是我剛剛報告的那個大樓的漏水,這個無障礙的公共區域的廁所等等這些追加 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5700.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5727.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
那預算上面大概是這樣的狀態那業務的部分就是剛剛提到的就是我們再來把它發文講清楚第一案那第四案的部分就是軍公教育人員待遇調整條例那個案子翁委員很關心也給我們這個常常給我們提醒那我剛剛會前也有跟翁委員報告就是我們也一直有在跟院裡面去 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5729.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5758.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
去推出溝通這件事情那現在都持續在進行我們會再努力來進行那具體的我們是建議說如果不能改成主決議的話如果不能改成主決議的話是不是用病案凍結的方式來做處理然後我們也把我們後續去處理完的一個情形比較清楚的跟這個委員會跟立法院來做書面報告的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5760.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5776.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
所以如果尊潔公堂不需要浪費這個立法院確實都會去要求啦但是因為這個簡列跟凍結機關代表這邊也說明了啦這樣委員這邊看還有沒有什麼看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5778.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5797.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
因為是因為你們就講不清楚造成誤解所以會被檢列現在今天我看你們也講得這麼清楚那等一下再來做決定來張委員我想就是針對第四案因為我看了前面就是第二案第三案的確是那個質詢率都不佳但是第四案其實質詢率已經有高達九成四其實還算 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5797.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5826.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
還不錯啦所以我只是在想說是不是在這個部分上面的確該做的把它做好然後法治化的部分目前就是因為其實大家最在乎的就是不要是一個浮動式嘛公教人員最在乎的就是說我們可以有一個透明的穩定的機制那這個目前也都有在相關的進度因為上次我有關心所以說是不是在這件事情我想所有的司法法治委員會都是非常在乎軍公教的一個支持國家有沒有好好的照顧他們所以我只是在想說因為這些東西最終還是回歸到我們的軍公教人員身上嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5826.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5847.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
所以是不是說我們也可以調整一下這個凍結的跟檢列的數字這樣子不要影響到我們實際第一線公務人員的一些相關的福利制度這樣謝謝福度是說要多少大家要做決定這樣翁委員他這樣說明之後我看本來是因為他講不清楚嘛那現在他也跟你這樣的說明以後檢列的部分是不是可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5849.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5872.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
我檢列可以少檢但是因為你們的確是增加幅度很大而且呢今年已經到五月六月了事實上你們本來就是質詢率過去也沒有那麼好那麼所以呢我可以同意就是少檢列更何況我們剛剛後面講的出國的考察計畫還有派員培訓計畫我們都已經給人事行政總署都少檢列了所以這個部分的話我認為還是要檢列就是看數字的部分那至於凍結的部分的話我堅持要凍結 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5879.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5896.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
這個凍結可以少凍重要是說你們就應該要完成剛剛講的一個是重新再發一個解釋函然後要清楚的告訴公教人員沒有拒絕不會有任何不利的影響那第二個部分就是說有關於軍公教待遇調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5896.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5919.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
法案的部分我要講就是昨天這個卓榮泰還在說對軍公教的調薪他們這個基本上會來做然後要和解共生等等之類的一些話可是呢我現在看到就是卓榮泰真的是說一套做一套他當什麼和解共生現在有多少的法案是押在行政院院會的我當然我也知道說人事行政總處的痛苦你們從113年12月底的時候你們就已經把法案送到行政院院會 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5925.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5946.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
行政院院會聽說已經審訊完畢可是為什麼遲遲的都一直不送到立法院這是我覺得很好奇的地方然後行政人事總署有沒有積極的或是很強硬的去跟主任太院長說這法案既然審訊完畢沒有問題就應該要送到立法院呢沒有嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5949.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5958.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
好啦 我要處理預算啦 啊不然這樣啦所以我第一次講說 為什麼我要認為說他們基本上在他們的業務上面沒有做好啊所以就是編列那麼高的預算也不合理沒關係啦 啊不然就這樣啦 現在翁委員要遷就檢內部 他可以檢啦慢慢 說到這看起來好像也不是一個報復性的提案再溝通一下 所以這個兩岸就先保留 好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5977.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5981.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
對啦 先保留啦 要不然在農會你們這大委員的時間委員可不可以我們講一個沒有 議員保留啊 議員保留啊你們待會要講那個時候再去講 再溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5990.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6014.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
那協商的時候我們再來討論 跟你們再溝通一下那稅出第二款行政院主管第三項聯繫行政總署業務費提案案號第一案到第四案那保留的是第一案跟第四案那除以上個案以外 業務費合併減列一百萬那科目自行調整 案號是第二跟沒有沒有沒有 那個就沒有了好那 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6024.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6029.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
那裡沒有科目自行調整有溝通過嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6031.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6058.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
好 那科目自行調整的部分是案號第二案跟第三案那我們繼續來處理第二款那第三項人事行政總署的主決議提案案號26案到第41案那第26到30案這個照案通過的部分 26到30案 32案報告召委 那個20案也是科目自行調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6058.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6084.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
二十 二十案也科目自行標準 好 那就二十二當時我 二十 有講了 有講了 有講了 有講了您注意聽 來 那接下來照案通過的部分是二十六到三十案 三十二案 三十三案 三十五到三十七案三十九案 四十案 就照案通過那修正通過三十一案 三十四案 三十八案 第四十一案 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6085.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6109.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
那第二款第三項人事行政總署處理完畢我們繼續來處理第四項公務人力發展學院第二幕訓練輔導跟研究提案案號第四十二案四十二案 那就改四十二案這個是已經溝通了嘛對 這個委員同意凍結五百萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6114.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6130.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
那個事實上這個已經溝通了就取消檢列改動解訓練輔導跟研究500萬書面報告好那就第二幕第42案就凍結500500萬那 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6134.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6148.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
並針對各凍結提案的要求依審查會決議提出書面報告後使得動之那我們接下來來處理第二款第四項公務人力發展學院的主決議提案案號43到44案那43案到44案的案通過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6154.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6160.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
那個 昭緯我可以一分鐘嗎來來來 發問女委員 抱歉我忘了關注昭緯謝謝大家 因為我的題跟剛剛這一樣雖然已經通過就是主決議3943我簡單講一下就是我質詢的時候有提到人事行政總署辦的中高階公務員培訓計畫那發現有一個性別的落差 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6174.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6201.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
那希望人總這邊可以研究一下為什麼這個落差想辦法改善那升官的這個執訓的部分也是一樣從113年底的統計原本女性佔60%在委任官跟兼任官中可是到了檢任就只剩39.7那希望人事行政總署去做統計跟研究有沒有可能改善以上 這個都是主決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6203.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6205.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
機關代表要不要說明一下我們會提這個報告說明好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6216.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6236.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
主席不好意思那個42案的部分我也說明一下就是有關這個部分是針對我們的一個政府領航人才發展計畫的部分因為它總共115年到119年編列了快4億今年就大概有將近1億 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6238.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6262.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
但是呢我們發覺就是說他預算書沒有這個完整的揭露他的計劃期程還有相關的這個年度經費分配績效目標跟後續的財政負擔讓我們能夠了解全貌那當然這個部分因為這個計劃有將近4億所以我認為說應該是針對這個AI導入相關的這個相關的他們想要達到的一個流程改善行政效率這還是要有完整的計劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6263.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6286.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
所以我就是同意凍結五百萬等行政院人事總處的人法學院兩個院內像我們立法院的司法法治委員會提出書面報告說明計劃整體的期程還有年度經費的分配課程跟認證設計還有實作成果的追蹤以及機關導入成效經同意後使得凍值以上 謝謝我們同意你的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6288.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6303.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
謝謝許委員那我們本日議程討論事項第一案已處理完畢做以下的宣告115年度中央政府總預算案關於行政院人事行政總署及所屬主管收支的部分我們就審查完畢提報院會院會討論前須交由黨團協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6309.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6327.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
那院會討論的時候由莊召集委員瑞雄來做說明那今天保留的兩岸因為機關代表也要特別在這邊叮嚀要再跟翁小玲召委這個地方再去做溝通跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6328.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6347.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
上岸 上岸 上岸 跟他溝通一下啦 他跟他洗腦一下啦 他的立場跟你們一樣的 會跟你們做照顧啦 不用擔心啦你看他們每天都慈眉善目 這樣 看著你們都是跟你們頂領我們會再跟歐委員報告的更清楚一點是啦 來 阿 吳委員未能進來 有什麼特別要發言喔來 阿杜你說 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6350.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6369.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
我今天就是審查這個人總預算我在這邊是要感謝人總人事長還有副座我真的是要感謝啦因為對於那個書記官還有地方人力的協助其實幫忙很多啦因為很多時候我們不這樣做人力流不下來那我們現在希望的 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6370.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6386.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
是希望第一線能夠更多人留下來所以我今天要講這個重點不是說加錢補人有時候更根本的是我們要怎麼樣讓基層的公務員 第一線的公務員他們敢做事那最近我們觀察到一個狀況就是說像水利土木公務這些專業證照的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6388.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6403.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
他們不想當公務員他們寧願拿證照去民間機關去找工作所以我們今天在留下他們的時候其實要更用心啦不是只有待遇不足的時候不足這個問題而已很多時候甚至是不尊重他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6404.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6425.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
那我自己當法治局長或是我以前當檢察官的時候我知道很多基層公務員最害怕的是他們還要面對陳情的壓力他們不是只有那個薪水的問題陳情的壓力 關稅壓力 還有一些程序上面的風險這些都是很大的問題啦所以我們就是說那個歐委員 歐委員 你等一下 還有一案 還有一案 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6427.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6449.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
所以說搞到最後其實大家都不想做事也不敢做事所以我提案的核心其實很簡單就是說我希望說人種不是就做後端的原額管控還有管理懲處啦也要跟那個廉政組或是對一些那高風險職務建立前端的那個風險辨識法治教育還有預警機制我是希望這樣子啦這樣子也是留財留下這些人的一個方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6450.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6470.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
因為有太多人跟我說他們不是不想做事而是不知道做了會不會出事所以變得最後就是不敢做所以行政效率就會變得不好那我希望我們因為人民他不會非常中央地方他也不會去管是哪一個機關卡住他只是說為什麼我要的東西政府做不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6471.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6500.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
所以這部分麻煩再注意一下所以今天審人種運算只是在提醒說你們管的不是只有人事流程啦而是整個政府能不能夠撐住讓第一線公務員他們覺得我有尊嚴我要留下來我敢做事其實我的要求只是這樣因為這個才是治理的關鍵好不好而不是流於表面因為我看到現在公務員一直流失這麼嚴重其實專業有專業的人的公務員流失更嚴重我們一堆檢察官同學都跑光光了 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6500.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6525.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
這是我擔心的地方 留不住人才好 謝謝來接著我們進行討論事項第二案繼續審查115年度交通政府總預算案附屬單位的預算非營業部分關於行政院人事行政總署主管專案公教人員急難救助基金收支的部分因為沒有委員提案 所以預算我們均照列 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6527.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6533.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
討論事項第二案已處理完畢 作以下宣告本案審查完畢 提報院會討論前須交由黨團協商院會討論時由莊召集委員瑞雄來做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6542.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6560.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
有關本日議程討論事項通過修正的預算提案請機關將修正的內容經提案委員簽名同意後送交主席台均列入公報記錄通過的決議依例文字授權主席及議事人員來整理那本日議程 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6563.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6592.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
本日會議議程所列的事項我們都已經處理完畢了那明天上午9點我們繼續來開會審查115年度總統府主管那當然不含中央研究院預算案委員針對總統府的預算提案如果尚未提出請送交委員會來收案必立預先我們來做一個會診使明天的一個審查可以更有效率那我們現在休息謝謝大家 |