| IVOD_ID |
17415 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17415 |
| 日期 |
2026-05-06 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-35-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
14 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2026-05-06T08:38:42+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-05-06T12:48:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
04:09:18 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/7a505bc1fba11f2de2c43aff6c47feb9d7ab20ad3fda10e692d343e5acb26ceb69334aab0317cd2b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-05-06T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議【含秘密會議】（事由：一、邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告業務概況，並備質詢。
二、審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於國防部主管收支公開及機密部分（不含國家安全局部分)。（僅詢答）
三、審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於國防部主管非營業基金：（僅詢答）（一）作業基金：1、國軍生產及服務作業基金。2、國軍老舊眷村改建基金。3、國防醫學大學軍事教育基金。（二）資本計畫基金－國軍營舍及設施改建基金。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:38:42 - 12:48:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1325.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
1328.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
部長還在受訪齁還沒有來齁那我們先等一下他 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1394.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1405.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
報告委員會出席委員12人已足法定人數那我們現在開會我們請議事人員宣讀上次會議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1406.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1410.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
立法院第十一屆第五會期外交及國防委員會第十三次全體委員會議議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1436.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1465.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
報告四 想依宣讀上次會議議事錄決定確定二 邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告國防部創新小組將新興科技運用於不對稱作戰知效等分析與未來發展並請衛生福利部國家科學及技術委員會列席並備質詢國防部部長顧立雄整合評估施施長描繪分報告委員陳俊宇等14人質詢均由國防部部長顧立雄政治作戰局局長史順文軍備局局長林文祥 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1466.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1491.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
陸軍司令部參謀長陳建應空軍司令部參謀長李慶然國家中山科學研究院院長李士強及國家科學及技術委員會主任秘書林廣宏等即席答覆決定一登記質詢在場委員均已發言完畢報告及詢討結束二委員黃仁所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報三委員所提書面及口頭質詢未及答覆會要求提供資資訊請相關機關與二周內已書面答覆本會全體委員並複製本會 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1494.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1502.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
委員令指定期限者從期所定宣讀完畢請議事人員宣讀報告事項及討論事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1504.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1526.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
報告事項 邀請國防部部長顧立祥報告業務概況並被質詢 討論事項一審查一百一十五年度中央政府總預算案關於國防部主管收資公開及機密部分 掛無不函國家安全局部分 僅詢答二審查一百一十五年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於國防部主管非營業基金 僅詢答一作業基金 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1526.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1527.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
現在介紹這場委員及與會官員首先是崔永康委員謝謝賴世保委員謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1555.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1583.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
接下來我們介紹國防部列席官員首先是部長顧立雄先生常務次長陳文興中將全民防衛動員署署長廖建興中將總督察長是總督察長盧建忠中將參事石文榮中將政務辦公室主任孫立芳中將政治作戰局局長史樹文中將 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1584.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1595.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
軍備局局長林文祥總長組計局局長謝其賢總長軍醫局代理局長陳元浩總長戰略規劃師司長黃文啟總長戰略資源規劃師司長藍靜婷女士法律事務司司長吳亦聖總長政評司司長廟偉芬女士國防採購室主任趙雅萍總長 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1614.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1633.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
政風是主任陳世偉先生主機是主任王慧金女士人事是主任吳婉樺女士人事參謀次長是次長王志輝中將情報參謀次長是次長謝日生中將作戰及計劃參謀次是專謀次長是次長侯嘉倫中將 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1642.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1658.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
後勤參謀次長是次長李鳳翔中將通信電子資訊參謀次長是次長謝俊山中將訓練參謀次長是次長郭俊德中將陸軍司令部參謀長陳建義中將海軍司令部參謀長朱惠民中將空軍司令部參謀長李慶蘭中將 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1671.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1681.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
後備指揮部參謀長薛淵全少將憲兵指揮部參謀長文念忠少將陸軍後勤指揮部參謀長梁永坤少將自動電軍指揮部參謀長周文祥少將軍事情報局執行長李永康少將 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1699.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1724.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
電信發展室執行長林振偉上校國防大學教育長林承忠少將中正國防幹部預備學校校長張維朝少將國家中山科學院研究院院長李世強先生行政院主計總署公務員徐振榮主計總署公務預算處專門委員陳台偉 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1727.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
1731.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
行政院主計總署基金預算處專門委員戴全芳 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
1736.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
1757.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
本日會議邀請國防部顧立雄部長報告業務概況並審查一五年度中央政府總預算案關於國防部主管收支公開及機密部分不含國安局的部分與附屬單位預算計四項基金案請作詢答報告區分為公開及機密兩部分先公開或機密方式詢答先秘密或公開時間並記 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
1762.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
1775.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那本委會6加2分鐘非本委會10分鐘10點半截止發言登記如果有臨時提案請10點半前提出11點左右是巡查狀況進行處理現在請顧部長上台分別就業務狀況預算案公開部分報告謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
1784.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
1801.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
主席、各位委員先進,今天應要致大院委員會實施業務報告,首先感謝各位委員長期來對各項國防施政的支持本次業務報告就當前國際情勢與整體安全環境及國防施政要項兩大面向進行說明,敬請各位委員指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
1802.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
1825.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
就當前國際情勢與整體安全環境首先說明區域安全情勢當前國際戰略環境高度不穩定全球地緣風險升溫加以全球輝帶威脅跨國網路攻擊假訊息滲透目標頻密均形成嚴峻之安全挑戰美中戰略競爭持續影響全球安全格局 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
1827.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
1853.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
美國揭示以實力換取和平之理念,主張保衛美國本土,同時發展新式武器系統以確保軍事優勢中國則持續積極發展,趨以拒止能力,持續擴張軍備台海位處第一島鏈核心及國際航道關鍵位置,牽動印太軍事平衡與行業安全日本體認到台海的衝突,不只是 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
1855.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
1871.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
台灣面臨的威脅也攸關日本切身安全利益,積極提升經濟應變能力美軍一強化日非澳的海空基地建設,支持各國與台海從事自由航行活動就中國對台威脅部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
1872.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
1894.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
中共持續透過軍事演訓常態化及灰色地帶行動,對我施加壓力,企圖破壞台海現狀,亦對區域和平與穩定造成衝擊。去年底,共軍與我周邊海空域執行大規模針對性演習,並以周邊海域進行實彈射擊,加大對我之軍事恫嚇。 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
1896.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
1906.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
此外,共軍隊員台海聯合演訓與區域常態化,由延轉戰風險升高除軍事演訓外,中共更經常現行外離島 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
1907.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
1937.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
禁間使水域及台灣海峽中線周邊假借執法巡查企圖形塑台海內海化之假象,否定我國管轄權此外,中共對我之威脅已延伸至網路與資安領域並用網攻部隊並結合民間駭客組織企圖透過入侵我關鍵資訊基礎設施對我國家安全形成嚴峻挑戰整體而言,中共對台侵略已呈現軍事威嚇常態化 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
1938.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
1958.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
灰色地帶行動多元化之發展趨勢本部除持續嚴密應用聯合情建生機制掌握共軍動態外並透過跨部會協調及跨國交流等多元管道全面掌握區域情勢並藉由重要戰力籌建以適應當前敵情威脅 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
1961.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
1978.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
在國防施政要項部分,首先報告國軍戰備應處,中共於114年12月29日宣布以台海周邊執行針對性經驗及發射進航區等複合式軍事行動,本部立即開設應變中心,下達立即備戰操演,掌握 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
1979.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
1995.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
全班敵請威脅動人,派遣軍機艦及時應駐,同步整合海巡組艦船並航監控,航空配戰部隊保持高度警戒三軍地面戰備部隊,議定實施戰備偵訊及聯合作戰計畫演練 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2001.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2009.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
維持高戰備與快速反應能力,嚴防工軍有緣轉戰。此外,為有效應對工軍演訓期間政治作戰資訊傳閃,本部統籌規劃三軍部隊威脅應處及備戰實況影片,使國內了解工軍威脅太陽及國軍應處作為。針對工軍本次演訓,每日 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2025.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2048.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
韓、非澳、紐英、法德加、立陶宛、瓜地馬拉、印度及歐盟均嚴正聲明表示維持台海和平穩定對區域及全球安全繁榮具戰略重要性反對於武力或脅迫片面改變現狀令國軍已於突發狀況處置規定立定各項敵情威脅模式及襲擾類型之應處使各單位均熟練處置權責,發揮統合力量 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2054.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2074.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
在颱風作戰計畫的整備方面,為強化立即作戰及快速反應之高戰備能力由本部編程專案小組參與近期戰爭力政及與友盟實戰經驗以抵犯台可能行動藉以修訂完成115年聯合作戰計畫,支撐防衛部首目標達成 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2078.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2100.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
二、年度實戰化演訓因應防衛作戰概念變革、新興武器、裝備、籌貨及兵力結構調整,並任務導向為戰而訓原則。制定國軍整體訓練方向,各項訓練要求均要求導入實戰化理念與課程,使國軍各級部隊能達成快速反應以維持高戰變能力之目標。 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2101.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2114.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
今年初既有漢光演習,立即備戰操演另外新增聯合作戰計畫預演以及以實兵方式進行之聯合防禦操演等聯戰行動預演藉由演練過程 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2118.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2145.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
中不斷檢視指揮與參謀作業、兵科協同與軍種聯合等機制確認志願與被志願單位聯合行動今年漢光42號實兵演習維持10.9頁演習重點聚焦分散制指管作業、預想間敵區作戰並結合縣市政府執行2026城鎮任刑演習等科目全程採實兵、實地實時、實裝及實況方式推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2148.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2168.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
此外今年起由陸軍執行新式兵科基地訓練全程區分前置訓練戰術及戰力建設等三個階段其中戰術建設由以往的五天四夜調整為十天九夜晝夜連續不間斷並利用假想敵引導部隊實施突發狀況處置使參訓部隊完訓後具備執行防衛作戰任務的能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2174.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2187.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
令本部以訂定無人機訓練政策規劃基礎專長駐地基地及貨幣交易召集訓練以聯合演訓等訓練類型再由軍種教準部指導專職訓練機構 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2190.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2219.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
執行準則發展、教育訓練及測考事項、全面提升訓練效能、建構無人機整體作戰能力三、重要戰力籌建本部於114年提出兩項特別預算首先感謝大院通過因應國際情勢強化經濟、社會及民生國防任性特別預算本部於115年至116年執行軍民直通作業環境任性以設備效能提升等六案可快速提升國土安全任性 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2220.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2242.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
另外強化防衛韌性及與不對稱站立特別條例草案行政院所採購之行政院版所採購之香糧均以敵情威脅研判為依據進行審慎規劃,籌募後將達成空中重建攔截網等七大目標目前特別條例草案已分別於 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2243.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2260.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
4月15及20兩度協商,懇請大院支持行政院版特別條例,以力發揮國軍的重要戰力籌建為有效強化部隊戰力,結合新157貨裝起程,以規劃組成冰海作戰指揮部將納入海軍機動雷達、飛彈車主及無人飛行載具,以力執行冰海作戰與禁岸防禦任務 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2269.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2294.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
在國造戰力方面,新式高焦機,旗艦交機56架,國艦國造持續推動新型救難艦等艦岸潛艦沿巡艦E逐項執行海上測試在對美軍購方面,美方於114年12月18日公布M109A7自走炮等8項進行智慧國衛程序,能大幅精進我多餘的具體能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2295.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2317.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
四、強化防衛韌性為因應中共可能之軍事行動預警時間縮短本部持續從指揮管制等層面全面精進防衛韌性在指揮管制方面持續推動機動部署強化指管系統能力與備援在後勤補給方面本部運用 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2318.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2325.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
特別預算採購燃油、整建彈藥庫及軍品庫儲等設施,有效提升戰備存量以及庫儲的安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2329.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2354.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
配合兵力結構調整與新式裝備結裝,針對不符作戰需求的裝備進行通盤檢討汰除並持續優化資源配置在醫療資源方面,規劃在今年執行9項次的軍工民營醫療整合演練新增醫院疏散撤離等4項驗證科目另外維持暫時血液供給穩定,本部於114年啟動國軍捐血機構等 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2357.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2386.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
捐血機構建制專案確保血液需求穩定供應達成國軍整體醫療韌性五反制認知作戰與統戰審討中共持續從多重面向對我國實施認知作戰並操作疑軍及分化友盟等論述動搖我國防衛意志與對外安全合作基礎形塑有利其統戰敘事之社會氛圍近年更透過網路勾引 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2386.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2408.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
勾連接觸官兵,除脅迫交付機密執行外,甚至引介同胞加入組織為有效反制中共認知作戰,本部以建制大數據輿情系統,針對爭議錯假訊息適時反制並積極結合官兵愛國教育及全民國防教育,強化國人及官兵媒體識讀能力與敵情意識 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2409.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2431.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
一用軍民多元船上管道,擴大宣傳國軍重大演訓成果,提升建軍力,以彌聚愛國信念,爭取國防投資支持,以強化國人心理韌性此外,為防渡敵敵諜滲透,本部已另頒國軍社民人員安全調查規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2432.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2460.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
強化人員揭秘資格審查中共對台的認知作戰與統戰威脅由單點滲透轉變為系統性部件官部除應用現行機制由專責單位監控及反制外亦將加強跨部會共同應處並透過國際戰略溝通以有效降低對我的影響在防範滲透部分建立官兵保防素養與正確認知透過完善內控機制確保國家安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2461.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2488.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
六全民防衛動員為強化民眾對威脅之認知與防衛意識本部一百一十四年九月發布全民台灣全民安全指引發放至全國各家戶及相關單位為提升後備部隊戰力擴增十四天教召訓練員至一百一十五年起不再實施五至七天教召另外提升訓練強度一百一十五年的教召訓練依作戰計畫在迎聯戰術地 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2490.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2508.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
地區報導、訴贏以及私訊、領專長互訓及作戰計畫演練、結合部隊編制武器訓練至重點於人襲式反裝甲武器、人襲式反空飛彈及無人機訓練提升後備戰力對新型作戰形態之適應能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2509.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2516.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
為強化中央與地方政府零災應變與動員能力,115年規劃4至8月辦理2026城鎮韌性全民防衛動員演習採無劇本方式實施,驗證地方政府以緊急狀態下的指揮調度能力2026城鎮韌性防衛演習規劃在8月7日及13日分區實施 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2538.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2566.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
驗證手機告警系統發布時效與警報的涵蓋率並執行人車管制及疏散病人演練,提升民眾對空襲威脅之應處熟能度7.前瞻新興科技因應人工智慧快速崛起,本部於114年10月成立專案辦公室逐步推動本部具備AI治理能力規劃與國內外產業合作,引導入具有AI功能之相關技術及成熟商品 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2567.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2595.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
令同步建立數位資料治理制度,奠定堅實智慧技術基礎環境國軍秉持以科技取代能力原則,選擇適當延期試行無人載具輔助警衛勤務辦法做法選擇以116年上半年完成成效評估與成果報告衛星應用方面,配合國家自主應用衛星發展,提升全天候監證能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2596.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2618.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
本部國防創新教室積極接觸民間承受商品及創新技術,115年,契經已舉辦46場次商情交流,利用嚴刑開發、少量採購途徑導入部隊應用,未來將擴大引進新興裝備,使國軍具備最新科技水準,提升整體國防戰力,拔深化國際安全合作。美國114年12月簽署《2026國防授權法案》,強化 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2624.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2648.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
延續強化台北安全合作,在多邊與雙邊交流部分本部配合政府整體外交政策,以積極拓展與其他有盟國家之交流國軍派遣駐外武官與駐在國執行軍事外交任務同時透過高層互訪與邀訪有盟國家軍事代表,就台海情勢等議題交換意見以爭取國際社會對我國家安全之支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2649.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2666.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
此外,國軍持續規劃各軍種戶外執行專案學訓,汲取實戰經驗,透過派遣校級軍官赴國外智庫研習,強化與國際智庫與安全社群之互動,拓展我國防外交影響力。 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2668.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2692.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
9.官兵生活照顧,在服役環境方面,自106年起推動刑案專案、課陣持續辦理嶄新專案、計畫興建官兵營舍等25案陸續招標執行為充實整體資源與能力,鼓勵人才長留久用本部以114年掩體5項調整方案,均獲行政院核定生效,實施後留營成效增加5.2% |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2696.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2715.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
檢見心智待遇提升已有正面成效在身心照顧方面國軍建構心理衛生體系結合民間醫療與輔導資源提升官兵心理韌性與部隊適應能力為協助官兵因應突發財務困難本部自115年起針對育嬰、醫療等欺劣急難事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2717.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2725.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
七類急難事件提供官兵低利急難貸款,將持續協助官兵適時獲得援助,使其專注戰訓本務,無後顧之憂。 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2728.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2746.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
10.經濟內部管理,在幹部管理與領導統一方面,強化幹部管理職能與領導素養,以自主管理等原則建立互信合作之團隊文化,為防度危安風險,每年執行戰技術及飛航安全督察,主動發掘淺層危害。 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2748.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2758.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
重大演習期間編組戰場督察小組確保任務安全遂行在軍紀與安全回顧工作針對違法犯紀案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
2759.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
2774.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
依法究責,並就各案進行檢討與測定,並透過案例宣導,持續提升官兵法紀議事。此外,國軍持續推展連結教育,落實採購集合與品鑒機制,確保採購品質與連任軍風。11.國防法案研修,為遏止與嚴懲現役軍人對敵人 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
2782.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
2806.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
為宣示效忠之行為本部拟據《陸海公軍刑法》第24條修正草案增定處罰條款加重不盡其應盡職責而降低罪之法定刑及增定其預備或陰謀犯另建議近年境外敵對勢力透由各種途徑拉攏吸收軍中跑者針對軍官士官違反違反法律規定不發喪屍停職 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
2808.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
2830.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
領受退組給予相關規範擬拒入海空軍軍官使官服役條例修正草案本部推動軍事審法修法令同步制定軍法官人士條例與軍事法案局、軍事檢察組、組織法等法律各進行法制體力調整作業,予以本會期含送大院審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
2832.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
2858.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
面對當前快速變動之國際形勢以日益複雜之安全環境本部持續務實推動各項國防施政並透過強化訓練作為及加速先進武器裝備籌貨其實國軍部隊達到可立即出戰之高戰備狀態讓共軍認知到進換台灣所付出之成本遠高於利益以確保國家安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
2858.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
2886.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
以上報告敬請各位委員先進指教本部一將持續虛心聽起建議推動各項國防政策謝謝那預算報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
2909.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
2923.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
接續實施本部115年度預算案報告,那承蒙各位委員先進對國防預算的支持與督測,再次表達誠摯的謝意。近期中共企圖以常態化為黑色地帶洗澡,對我國家安全造成嚴峻挑戰。 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
2925.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
2947.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
國軍貫徹防衛固守,重申嚇阻止軍事戰略構想,陸立戰備整備工作本部一百一十五年度主管單位預算編列五千六百一十四億元處優先義助人員維持所需,並致重於建構不對稱戰力強化防衛韌性,提升後備戰力及後指揮射地帶應處能力等要項戶屬單位預算編列六百五十四億 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
2949.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
2971.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
為聖湖基金、眷改基金、軍教基金及營改基金等四個特種基金均依照設置目的妥適規劃運用,懇請各位委員先進給予指導與支持接續由主席局長謝其源中將、政戰局局長石順中將、經營局代理局長陳元浩少將及軍備局局長林文祥中將向各位委員報告,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
2983.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3001.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
主席各位委員先進面對當前嚴峻國際情勢與區域衝突中共不斷對我灰色地帶洗腦加大針對性威懾行動國軍持續陸立各項戰訓準備工作落實建構自我防衛能力本部115年度主管預算5616億6272萬6千元公開部分編列5371億4859萬8千元災暴如後 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3013.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3028.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
115年度施政重點在陸力戰備整備強化防衛力量方面面對今年預需頻密軍事威脅國軍積極推動國防自主並透過對美軍構及多元合作等管道建構不對稱戰力強化防衛韌性115年度持續執行陸軍新型戰車 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3034.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3059.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
遠程精準火力打擊系統等案編列預算815億7341萬6千元在結合實戰情況提升訓練成效方面中共持續採小規模多批次長期且連續性洗腦加大對台軍事威懾力度為適應敵情威脅藉立即戰備操演、焊光演習等時機結合作戰場景實戰化訓練建立聯合作戰默契 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3063.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3072.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
面對新興科技多元威脅情境持續優化資訊系統運作效能精進指管系統機動能量編列預算210億7747萬8千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3076.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3104.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
在導入科技技術、電機研發能量方面為落實國防自主除持續執行基建國造外推動攻佔即時遠訓系統夾艙徵購等新增軍事投資建案並參考世界軍武科技發展趨勢以不對稱作戰為核心啟動國防先進科技研究由中科院整合執行計畫運用於航太載具等運用領域電機武器系統研發能量 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3105.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3112.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
編列預算606億4883萬4千元在續機後勤量能提高資源效率方面為確保新興裝備妥善籌建N1A2T戰車等裝備維保能量維持部隊整體效能另外增加戰鬥持續力 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3125.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3150.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
籌購標槍飛彈等各式彈藥提高零附件及油料戰備存量建構堅韌後勤量能兵列預算1426億9471萬9千元在扎根能力培育、尋碩專業職能方面能力為國軍部隊戰力根源為廣納優秀人才加入國軍運用多元宣導強化招募效益令屆派訓軍事深造教育班隊 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3152.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3162.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
擴充國軍高階專業人才增進整體素質並透過薪資待遇調整與官兵生活照顧提高留營意願鞏固部隊戰力編列預算2043億4156萬1千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3167.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3185.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
在擴大居民整合堅實防衛韌性方面總統強調韌性不是被動承受衝擊而是主動塑造未來的積極作為為提升全社會防衛韌性國軍城鎮韌性演習聚焦民防設施整備關鍵基礎設施防護驗證在災害來臨時社會與民生運作無虞後備軍人選從不再限制戶籍地選員 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3191.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3217.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
以快速恢復戰力滿足部隊動員需求令14天教召結合戰術地區達成動員及完成備戰目標編列預算64億7298萬5千元在落實全民國防堅定團結信念方面依據全民國防教育法以教育為核心推動全民國防教育引領國人體驗國防事務將國家安全觀念融入國人生活領域編列預算16億919萬3千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3221.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3239.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
在優化生活環境完善照護品質方面為使官兵全心投入建軍備戰持恆推動生活照護措施營舍改善方面積極設施優化及加強老舊營舍整修新府措施方面辦理心理健康照護及宣導提供官兵多元輔導服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3241.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3257.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
醫療照護方面建置野戰智慧醫療系統提升戰場存活率懲罰與救濟方面陸海空軍懲罰法修正及軍人權益事件處理法經總統公布完備軍人懲罰及救濟制度編列預算175億6264萬5千元預算編列概況稅務預算編列76億2853萬5千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3267.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3273.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
稅出預算編列5,613億6,272萬6千元區分人員維持2,007億6,988萬5千元主要為人員心想保險等法定局域作業維持編列1,990億4,248萬6千元公開部分1,901億739萬7千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3289.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3297.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
後勤維保維持各式主要武器裝備妥善等1568億626萬1千元通信資訊辦理通信電子及各項資訊系統管理維護等68億2837萬元教育訓練辦理戰演訓任務部隊訓練等123億8060萬4千元軍事行政環境保護第一背景等140億9216萬2千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3317.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3319.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
軍事投資1615億5035萬5000元公開部分1462億7131萬6000元區分國內產製17句話108案603億6562萬2000元新增計劃65萬40億7400萬4000元對外採購815億9011萬6000元執行24案 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3346.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3367.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
土地活化兩億四千一百五十七萬四千元配合政府辦理土地釋出活化運用結語面對嚴峻敵情威脅及不斷攀升地緣政治風險本部妥適編列一百一十五年度預算敬請各位委員宣敬支持與指教接續實施國軍生產及服務作業基金報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3370.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3390.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
國軍生產及服務作業基金下轄生產醫療服務福利及文教軍人儲蓄膚食供應等六個事業主要任務是建立軍事武器裝備生產體系國軍官兵醫療照顧等相關工作陸力達成支援國防施政任務緊救業務計畫及預算編列情形災暴如後業務計畫概況生產事業 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3396.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3404.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
計劃生產兵工類、經理類、測量類及製圖類產品合計2934項醫療事業計劃提供門診醫療服務651萬餘人次住院醫療服務180萬餘人日及病患膳食服務126萬餘人日服務事業計劃提供餐飲服務31萬餘人次住宿服務2萬餘人次及球場服務9萬餘人次 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3424.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3435.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
福利及文教事業計劃辦理福利品配銷4億2499萬餘元發行報刊834萬份軍人儲蓄事業計劃辦理軍人儲蓄存款234億8300萬元副食供應事業計劃辦理國軍官兵副食品統籌購辦1億1425萬餘輪次預算編列情形預算收支 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3452.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3462.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
業務收入方面425億1924萬5000元主要系軍品生產銷貨國軍醫院醫療等各項收入業務成本與費用方面414億4382萬8000元主要系軍品生產銷貨成本醫療用品與耗材等費用業務外收入方面9億4975萬2000元主要系存款利息收入等 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3481.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3485.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
業務外費用5億7205萬3千元主要是生產事業第205場光中營區土屋整治經費年度剩餘14億5311萬6千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3495.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3498.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
財務概況115年底預計資產總額774億2104萬5千元負債總額207億7847萬2千元淨值566億4257萬3千元構建固定資產編列45億2122萬1千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3516.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3537.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
專案計畫 二十一億九千六百一十四萬五千元主要系執行國軍台中總醫院新建醫療大樓等八案繼續性專案計畫一般建築及設備計畫 二十三億兩千五百零七萬六千元主要系更新營運發展所需之一般建築及設備執行細項請參閱結語本基金以軍事武器裝備生產及服務官兵為導向 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3546.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3574.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
敬請各位委員先進指教並鼎力支持繼續報告國軍老舊眷村改建基金115年度預算案主席各位委員先進國軍老舊眷村改建基金是依據民國85年公佈的國軍老舊眷村改建條例所設立本基金設置目的在加速更新國軍老舊眷村提高土地使用經濟效益 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3575.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3590.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
運用眷村土地興建住宅照顧原眷戶及志願役現役官兵保存眷村文化協助地方政府取得公共設施用地及改善都市景觀總計完成千件改建基地及國眷宅86處安置眷戶69,364戶現緊急業務計劃及預算編列情形災害報告如後業務計劃改況積極區劃漁屋及店鋪辦理嘉義市建國156村等改建 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3602.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3622.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
基地漁屋架售資源易現役官兵加速回收興建成本及降低維護管理支出並根據委請財政部國有財產署辦理台北市富華新村等處改建基地漁屋及店舖標售作業以有效益助基金收益並辦理台北市華人新村等村子輔助購宅查額款 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3623.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3652.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
結報、稅刑、眷戶安置工作預算編列情形業務收入編列四億六千兩百八十九萬兩千元主要是辦理架售及標售漁屋及店鋪的銷貨收入及貸放原眷戶優惠貸款利息收入等業務成本與費用編列五億兩千兩百三十九萬四千元主要是認列架售及標售漁屋及店鋪的興建成本補捐助地方政府辦理眷村文化保存開辦費及結報輔助原眷戶購宅差額款等 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3653.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3673.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
業務外收入編列7億1873萬6千元主要是漁物店鋪土地的租賃收入及營運資金支息等業務外費用編列3億2313萬2千元主要是列資舊有捐赦處理費及支應土地處理作業費不足款等年度剩餘收支相抵後即剩餘3億3610萬2千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3677.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3694.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
會加速去化漁屋,提高土地使用經濟效益,活絡國內經濟,改善都市景觀及推動眷村文化保存工作。本基金將持續依眷改計劃期程,完成既定任務,進行各位委員先進指教並鼎鼎支持,並順利達成施政目標。 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3708.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3724.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
主席 各位委員先進 現由軍醫局進行國防醫學大學軍事教育基金115年度預算案報告國防醫學院軍事教育基金於114年8月1日起 奉行政院同意修訂名稱為國防醫學大學軍事教育基金 並自115年度預算實用 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3727.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3756.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
本基金自113年度成立,除政府循预算程序之拨款外,并增加自筹收入裁员,扩充教育经费规模,延揽师资,强化跨域合作及教学研究致用弹性。以精进军政医学教育的品质及研发的绩效,促进校务及国际学术交流发展,有效支援国军备战任务。现仅就115年度业务计划概况及预算编列情形,灾暴如后。 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3758.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3776.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
業務計畫概況 辦理國防醫學大學教學訓輔及研究發展事務115年度營運目標為執行大學部及碩博士研究所之學員生計2077人執行產官學建教合作研究案398件等營運目標預算編列情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3780.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3800.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
分為預算的收支主要是業務的收入編列9億1495萬3千元主要是教學研究輔助以及建教合作及學大費收入業務成本與費用編列9億3476萬1千元主要是教學成本的業外收入編列4157萬7千元主要來自受證及校內各種場地的租金收入 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3809.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3824.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
業外費用編列2,663萬8千元主要是致用於管理停車場及宿舍的場地來設備致用年度短處收支相抵後短處486萬9千元短處由撥用公積來填補 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3830.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
3831.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
財務概況115年預計資產總額9億6790萬2000元負債總額為3億259萬8000元淨值6億6530萬4000元 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
3845.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
3871.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
構建固定資產115年固定資產建設改良編列1億6430萬3千元主要是辦理專案計畫以及配合學校運用實際需求編列情形如後專案計畫編列1億2814萬5千元系三軍總醫院及國防醫學大學之充實軍政醫學設備太舊新增補重教學等研究的設備儀器 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
3873.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
3893.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
編列的項目區分為機械及設備共一億兩千七百八十萬五千元主要是採購新世代的高精準核酸定序儀等品項十項設備編列三十萬主要是提升醫學教育品質所需的視聽器材一般建築及設備 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
3895.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
3911.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
計畫共計編列三千六百一十五萬八千元主要用於學校的營運基礎設施的汰換以及國科會等機構的建教合作以及教育研究的設備依資金來總共編列在政府補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
3911.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
3921.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
編列2,625萬8千分為機械及設備2,056萬5千元主要用於購置自動流動床、照力機組等設備10項設備共編列569萬3千元主要是新增教學所需的空調自籌編列990萬元主要用於建造合作之設備儀器採購 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
3938.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
3952.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
本基金115年除由政府預算補助外自籌收入較144年度成長約6.4%用以提升教學研究延攬師資以及設施改善等 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
3953.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
3975.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
主要是因應人工智慧及強化我們的韌性的醫療設備導入了創新的消學以及高階的科學儀器並且推動各個學院的資源跨域及整合協作及效果多元化的經營來提高自籌收入懇請各位委員先進指導及支持以議軍事教育基金之順利執行謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
3987.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4013.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
國軍營舍及設施改建基金115年預算案報告主席各位委員先進本部為落實政府照顧國軍官兵政策於民國87年度經行政院核准成立國軍老舊營舍改建基金自101年度起為有效運用國防資源擴大基金用途將一般軍事工程及設施預算納入本基金執行並更名為國軍營舍及設施改建基金 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4014.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4026.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
推展老舊營舍及設施簡建工作改善官兵生活品質現緊舊業務計畫及預算編列情形摘要報告如後1.業務計畫概況2.205場簽建專案計畫3.營運國家重大經濟建設配合高雄市 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4031.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4047.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
多功能經貿園區都市發展規劃辦理營區騰浪藉由營區釋出所獲收益益助營改基金辦理第205場簽建及居住重置以發揮最大經濟效益共創國家、地方及國軍商運局面 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4048.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4069.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
千建工程委由高雄市政府代辦115年度持續辦理光復營區工程驗收契約結算及生產線機具裝設及測試等作業二資安營區專案計畫一財政部加強國有不動產活化運用計畫透過整合行政院數位發展部及本部 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4070.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4094.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
資通電軍指揮部等單位於中信營區建置資安營區與統整國家資安防護能量達成資安及國安之政策目標新建工程委由內政部國土管理署代辦115年度持續辦理工程施工及建造等作業三、老舊營舍整建計畫為提升官兵駐辦環境落實照顧國軍政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4095.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4115.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
本部積極推動國軍老舊營舍整建努力營造安全舒適及功能健全之營區以提供官兵更優良之訓練環境及生活品質115年度即執行炮兵官廟湯商營區興建工程等25案此次辦理工程施工及建造等作業是 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4116.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4142.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
工程及設施整建計畫為有效運用國防資源配合國防戰備任務需求自101年度起逐年編列經費辦理興建國軍工程及設施115年度執行航特部270營外離島港型設施興建工程等試案持續辦理工程施工建造及契約結算等作業二預算編列情形基金來源編列178億71萬6千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4146.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4160.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
財產收入以儲分不適用營地移交國有財產署辦理、土地活化資、權利金、租金、其他財產及利息等收入計163億4,322萬2千元政府撥入收入合計13億5,198萬7千元供庫撥款收入依行政院核定資安營區及高市府濱海連外道路攔斷工程由供庫挹注10億 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4174.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4198.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
9790萬政府其他撥入收入依行政院99年指示核納本基金來源清徹之不動產均因透列總預算由本部與財政部國有財產署互編稅出稅率預算以轉賬不撥款方式列計土地存貨資產原115年度依行政院核定營改基金來源清徹即新生攬零散地整11處土地及拆遷補償款 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4200.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4207.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
作價撥入數2億5408萬7千元其他收入罰款計1億550萬7千元基金用途編列215億8111萬8千元第205場簽證專案計畫執行光復大樹北紀中科院林園營區分案編列70億5540萬8千元資安營區專案計畫執行資安營區一案編列11億6840萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4229.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4243.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
老舊營舍整建計畫執行各單位老舊營舍搬遷及整建工程共25案 編列125億8092萬工程及設施整建計畫執行國軍工程及設施整建共4案 編列6億4879萬6千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4246.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4258.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
一般行政管理計畫執行本基金業務所需的營地的維管、人事、行政等作業費及來源清澈無法處分之土地剔除作價數編列1億2,759萬4千元年度轉折暨轉折37億8,040萬2千元由以前年度基金餘額自印結餘 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4268.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4285.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
為慈恆完善官兵照顧本部持續加強國軍老舊營舍整建規劃及設施改建工作提供官兵良好工作環境及生活設施敬請各位委員先進指導並鼎力支持必使國軍營舍及設施改建基金業務順利推動以上報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4287.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4302.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
好 謝謝我們補充介紹陳俊宇委員沈伯陽委員謝謝那我們確認議事錄請問在場委員對於上次會議議事錄有無遺漏或錯誤需要更正之處好 那議事錄確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4305.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4315.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
那現在公開報告結束我們接下來進行秘密會議那我們要進行清場等一下移動的時候請全部由前門出場參與秘密會議的人員由後門通過偵測檢查後進入那我們請議事人員清場 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
5229.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
5230.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
OK |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
5368.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
5387.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
現在登記公開諮詢委員開始詢答那我們請陳俊宇委員上台諮詢好,謝謝昭爾,我們有請顧部長我們請顧部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
5394.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
5412.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
部長早部長面對中共越來越嚴峻的軍事擴張還有相關的侵擾威脅我們要建構一個堅實而且符合大家所期待的全民國防體系那兵力當然是重中之重的一個問題那我國軍從這個113年度開始將義務役恢復為一年期 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
5418.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
5444.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
在今年已經實施到第三年那我想就這個部分跟部長您來做一個討論目前執行的這個成效還有未來我們精進的相關規劃那根據國防部所提供的這個資料齁一年起的EWE增級的人數已從這個113年這個6千多人攀升到去年已經到8、9千人了齁那預計在今年可能會 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
5445.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
5466.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
突破一萬一千名的義男入營那有機會比去年增加近兩成的兵力而在增級人數快速成長之下我們要檢視政策是否能夠落實讓義務役真正能夠形成我們國軍戰力重要的一環尤其在增級的人數逐年增加的情況之下對於基層的壓力 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
5467.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
5483.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
也是逐漸逐步的提升那去年監察院也提出一份調查報告指出這個新訓旅的基層領導幹部存在人力的缺口甚至這個步兵營存普遍存在缺少裝備的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
5485.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
5505.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
包括中型戰術輪車以及相關的通訊設備在進訓裝備上都出現短缺的情況等等還有因為基地訓期的週期造成相關的缺漏問題等等我想請問部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
5507.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
5524.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
在我們捕食基層幹部的人力缺口以及義務役部隊所缺少的裝備上我們國防部是否已經有具體的一個改善方案那目前義南是否都能夠受到完整的一個基地訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
5526.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
5545.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
跟委員報告,現在我們一年期的EWE當然會逐年增加,尤其特別是在這個他從大學畢業,因為現在113年開始所增給的大部分都是沒有到大學念的所以會人數上會相對少,但是預期到了116 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
5548.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
5567.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
一六之後,那一五一的人數會開始增加那一五一因為是現在變成一年,所以他必須要接受一個完整的訓練所以我們現在是從他的這個新訓,這個開始那麼到這個駐地,然後再到基地,然後再到這個聯測 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
5569.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
5597.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
然後我想就這個部分我們做給他一個完整的一個訓練之後呢這個EVE的這個戰略能力就透過這樣比較紮實的訓練以後可以在訓練部分讓他成為一個具有一定的這一個專業能力的一個兵力我們日後會將這些兵力然後再用 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
5598.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
5612.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
教召的方式,因為我們教召以後要改成年年師訓教召也先改為兩週我想透過這樣的方式,然後再盡量以援兵歸援衛的方式我們讓他持續維持這樣的一個作戰力 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
5617.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5645.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
政府去年也有宣布一年級的EUE會實施新式武器的訓練包括反裝甲的火箭還有次增飛彈以及無人機的操作等等都是要讓訓練更紮實的一個規劃但執行的情況是否確實符合預期之前有媒體報導指出有部分的藝男在退伍前幾天才接觸到新式的武器訓練課程恐怕會造成他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5646.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5670.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
只是流於形式的情況沒辦法真正熟悉裝備的操作或是受制於裝備數量不足訓練有限可能會受到訓練完整性也有差異的落差別這部分我想請教部長是我們要怎麼確保義南在受新式武器訓練的過程能夠符合相關的完整性 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5671.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5684.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
並且有多少比例這個藝男在訓練後真正能獲得新式武器的專長認證那今年在新式武器的訓練上有沒有其他新增的相關規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5685.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5708.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
我們現在114年的8週陸午訓練,本來就有增加反裝甲,就是包括紅準火箭彈,還有短程防空,就是人襲式的,然後還有無人機無人機的部分,我們現在是在115年把它調整,就是說從原來是4個小時,我們把它提升到12個小時 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5709.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5722.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
體驗到12個小時,它就會就無人機的起降跟飛行它就可以有一個基本的操作能力再接下去以後,它分化部隊之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5722.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5745.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
那依照部隊的編制來施訓所以就有一個駐地專精基地跟聯合演訓的幾個階段來熟練武器操作的性能我想一年的話,我們會一直努力在有關於它各個階段的訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5747.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5776.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
那所以這一次也會規劃就是說我們這個現在以這個守備旅來講那我們要邊時守備旅那現在有邊時的布衣營那邊時的布衣營的部分我們會我們也會實施新的基地的一個訓練就所謂的CDC2.0讓他能夠有一個比較確實的一個基地訓練然後我們也會有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5777.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5802.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
有一個評鑑,之後再參加三軍的聯勇,這個部分我們也會來實施部長我們訓練後的專長認證比例大概是多少?因為委員的意思是,我們應該要有區分不同的專長,所以這個是不是信誓是屬於你? |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5803.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5823.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
委員好 我是新市市長跟委員報告有關我們這個專長認證的部分那為了因應這個新市武器的接裝他有個人的專長跟整個組合的專長那這個部分按照每一位他的職務都會接受這些專長才可以招募這些這個武器裝備所以目前執行上是沒有問題的 跟委員做個說明沒問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5827.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5854.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
在這個會期我們行政院實施這個施政報告當中從今年的115年將一年期的這個義務役編成步兵營並配合這個聯兵旅進訓所謂的這個聯勇操演那我想這代表是我們守備部隊不只是單純的人力補充而是要轉變作為這個陣地防禦還有防禦還有火力資源協調能力的一個戰鬥單位那 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5856.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5879.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
這個部分我想了解的是由EWE組成的步兵營在參與聯勇操演或是漢光演習的時候他的任務分配和角色是和我們常備部隊有什麼樣一個區隔那國防部是否會制定專門的這個評鑑標準來測試我們EWE還有主戰部隊共同遂行的這個聯合打擊能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5880.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5903.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
這部分是請部長說明一下剛有講過訓練的部分的話,他要入訓練駐地然後這個專長,然後之後我們也講過說要進入到聯勇之前還有一個基地那要通過之後才進入聯勇所以他要守備旅的這個部分,他針對這個步兵營他的一個拘束跟守備的任務,我們會根據這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5907.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5928.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
任務的性質,我們會相關的評鑑所依據的準則,我們會針對指揮參謀作業跟野戰的一些藥物還有實戰設計來實施一些測考所以我們特別會針對他的任務來建立一個量化而且具體的一個戰力的指標 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5929.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5954.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
好,那謝謝部長,那也請國防部持續的精進我們相關的訓練對對,因為接下來就是說義務役他有一年那這個義務役有一年跟委員特別報告,他對於我們日後有一些基層的士官然後甚至是基層的軍官的補充我們也會有一定的計畫也就是說日後他 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5956.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5982.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
他不一定要轉志願役,但是他即使不轉志願役,我們也會讓他能夠轉成士官或者是甚至轉成軍官,這樣子的話就能夠更充實我們基層所需要的幹部能力好,謝謝部長好,謝謝陳俊宜委員,接下來我們邀請陳永康委員上來質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
6001.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
6010.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
主席 有請顧部長我們請部長部長早受限於時間 我用幾個簡圖就教於部長我們特別談到往下走 不能動 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
6031.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
6051.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
我向部長特別提出來我們國防部成立了這個DIO辦公室實際上這個美國DIO辦公室在2015年就成立了當時是由Ashton Carter當部長的時候他也跟我提過這個事情那麼我們學習別人的精神 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
6052.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
6073.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
那DIU当年的重要性并不比不过DAPA可是DAPA当年的预算很大他的研究发展计划有些非常先进可是其他的平行的单位呢跟不上结果他的计划好计划搁置一两年再等别人技术提升 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
6074.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
6096.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
現在呢因為進步太快所以DIU的時間是非常短的就有好幾個分散的辦公室同步進展然後把商業的high tech然後融入國防作為他的國防安全因為這個的重要性在我們的國防報告書跟預算需求內沒有反映出來我們強調這個台灣之盾 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
6101.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
6126.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
很多的武器装备是由继续下一张是由军售来买可是军售买的是硬体装备有关于台湾之盾里面的系统整合他有很多要引述美国现今AI发展的科技 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
6128.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
6154.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
這個部分並不是美軍現用的那不是美軍現用的就軍售沒有因此可以用直接商售DCS可是我們國內一直現在把名詞叫做軍購商購跟國內和製造就美國的立場來講是軍售FMS也包括軍售融資FMA |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
6155.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
6171.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
FMF或是軍援甚至總統特別授權法案PDA在這個之外直接商售這全部都是軍事採購那我們把商購變成了好像是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
6173.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
6187.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
特別的案例其實美軍沒有用的東西我們要買就是走商售DCS還是要透過美國的審查但過去的批評是因為跟其他國家買的時候有些弊案 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
6188.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
6209.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
事实上在完整的合约框架下由美国的直接制造厂商取得出口许可跟台湾的末端实用单位军总或中科院直接对接这个是可以避免当年的弊端那前提是要有一个完整的合约框架 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
6211.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
6224.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
律师要全程参与不是一个小案开个标由律师得标我来参加这个案因此在重大的军事采购合约里面律师会计师费用的占比要提高 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
6228.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
6243.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
我們委託中科院有些優勢當前科技創新中科院扮演的角色這個東西我們都了解可是在這個部分在我們的特別條例裡面它的重要性凸顯不出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
6245.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
6272.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
所以要民宿出來不是軍購商購是軍購裡面是FMSFMF甚至有FMA美國無償送給你甚至有PDA另外再加上直接商售DCS這都是美國對我們的援助選項而不是商購就會產生問題那我們再看下一個題目這個非常複雜 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
6274.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
6299.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
這個就是一個台灣之盾的概念右上角就是國軍持橫強化戰力這都是我們國防部公布的資料去年的特別預算加今年的特別條例列選可是這些東西呢在台灣之盾內它是裝備它並不是系統的整合請你看中間這張圖你的武器有軍售有商售 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
6300.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
6329.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
你的系統整合有軍售商售有國產那這裡面美軍沒有的裝備他就無法軍售因為台灣之盾是我們的系統架構所以這裡面就變成美國的國防廠商用高科技來介入可是這是商售因為沒有講明白大家只看到硬體採購那同樣在這個右邊這個圖裡面的你要整合空軍的 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
6331.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
6343.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
環網強化環展他是洛馬公司雷神公司我們又要把這個整體防空的IBCS整合進來他是洛格North Garment |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
6344.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
6369.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
雷神諾馬這幾家公司誰當主合約商在軍售裡面並沒有顯示那商售要來做因此這個部分要做說明這些整體整合再加上TTN現在TAC這些全部整合進來所以三軍的指管跟Sensor到Shutter這個整合裡面有很多的部分是要透過商售不是商購 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
6370.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
6396.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
但是因為沒有說明白所以了解度就比較差了那在這個圖整合起來再下一項DIO的角色就DIO的辦公室就很重要未來DIO要離開整合評估室他要直接屬於部長辦公室這樣子才可以跟國科會其他的先進單位或者智庫做整合 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
6397.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
6423.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
那同樣也是像美國的DIU一樣他有不同的辦公室他的人才還要再增加那只有這種方法下執政在野大家了解了這個系統的整合並不是只受限於硬體的採購特別條例不能只涵蓋這個我用最後一張圖給大家看一下我們用公開的情資透過AI的技術 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
6424.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
6447.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
我们把全世界FIR的航区跟民航公司在哪一个点赞要向FIR的地区国要做接头告诉我航路管制有没有冥想到别的我曾经在另外一个出国的单位上飞机上面就告诉我我们的管制区居然是在美国的 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
6450.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
6470.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
加州涵蓋了太平洋所以這些航管的每一站的圖的接觸點這些資料都可以反映到我們的COP並不是只限於防空識別區我只是把這個東西提供部長做個參考有關技術功能的資料我們跟部裡面同仁大家在互動分享請部長回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
6473.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
6501.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
剛剛委員提到那個系統整合的部分確實是最重要的這一塊那這一塊的部分我想如果可以的話我會私下我們請中科院跟您做一個完整的一個說明這樣子我們也許會比較好一點這可能還不到我們可以公開說明的這個部分那至於DIO的這個部分我們現在是比較著重於在 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
6503.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
6525.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
比較成熟的這個市場的這個現貨的商品裡面我們用小批量採購的方式來實行驗證那剛剛委員提到的這個商購不應該去把它商售也好商購也好不應該事實上美國這邊他事實上也一直在 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
6526.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
6549.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
再說明就是說,我們要快速形成我們的關鍵戰力,商購是一個很好的管道。不管您講的相關的武器裝備或是系統的部分,這些如果能夠透過商購的程序,是可以快速的來形成。 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
6550.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
6574.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
當然美國也在改革他的軍售相關的流程但是我想商購確實是一個我們可以來快速的一個途徑所以我當然也希望就是說我想委員都有參加這些機密專報我們也有公開的事項有做一些說明所以有關這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
6575.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
6601.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
相關所 透過商購所需要獲得的那我想我也應該也會加以支持我補充說明啊2025年美國的軍售總額度跟商售的額度比商售已經成長超過軍售也就是說快速反映先進的科技在美軍還不能夠完全變成的標準軍制 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
6602.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
6623.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
透過FMS的時候商售給國家的額度已經成長了但商售的前提我再向部長建言所有的商售專案必須要有完整的律師會計師團隊不能用一個案子去開標找律師而且只做個層因為完整的合約框架非常複雜需要有像部長這種專業的 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
6625.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
6645.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
我們過去在國外也學習過這個談判的過程中往往很多但書條款這個force majeure因素如果講不清楚前面一廂情願後面完全不能控管所以商售是更重要的是一個完整的合約框架以上我提出這個建議是我們會謹記委員的建議會來落實好謝謝部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
6652.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
6664.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
非常感謝陳永康委員的質詢那也謝謝對這個上售的說明以及從2016年開始就對DIO DIU的關注那接下來我們請羅委員謝謝主席 有請部長是 羅委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
6682.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
6700.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
部長早 部長日前宜蘭金六節新兵訓練中心發生了台日雙重國籍的異難那遭到這一個連長以歧視性甚至是不堪入耳的言語羞辱那件事件發生之後連長已經是調離了現職然後移送司法機關來偵辦可是我們發現在這件事件當中這位異難第一時間他並不是像我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6710.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6721.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
985專線這個申訴專線來做這個申訴反而是第一時間呢到網路平台去做救助所以我想請教是不是說我們整個這個申訴管道其實是出了這個問題啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6722.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6726.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
因為曾經我曾經看過這個應南的他在這個我們的這個網路平台他有提到他把他跟這個連長之間的這個對話呢有一一的列出來其中連長甚至去跟他講說你去打1985我也沒在怕因為我很習慣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6743.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6771.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
這是四月份發生的這個事情我想請教國防部到底我們這個申訴專線到底有沒有發揮它的功能因為第一時間居然是到網路平台去做求助我想請教一下像我們的國防部或是政戰局我想請問一下在這個一南還沒有到這個網路平台求助之前我們相關單位知道有這件事情嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6773.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6780.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
我講1985由總督長負責委員好,我是總督長,針對委員剛剛提示的1985專線的功能,我這邊跟委員報告因為1985是24小時的專線,那裡面隨時都會有人在待命,而且接聽1985的案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6796.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6820.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
那在案件收辦之後我們會立刻再去做分辦屬於人事後勤或是其他相關的專業我們會由各業館在兩天之內要去做一些基礎的查證跟回覆那我們1985這邊管制所有的進度那也會把這些相關的資訊通報給不管是侦探局或是法律司來做相關的協處以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6821.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6835.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
所以正常的程序應該是這樣 可是我們發現這位異難 他第一時間並不是打這1985那我想請教 在這個 在他還沒有在這個網路平台求助之前我們1985有接到他的這個所謂申訴的電話嗎 請問督察長有嗎各位報告 我們沒有接到他的申訴電話 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6843.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6868.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
所以他是不敢因為被連長嗆聲所以表示說因為連長講了一句話你去打1985我也沒在怕因為我很習慣了表示說這也不是第一次喔所以連長可能是仗著說過去我再怎麼樣用言語羞辱或者是怎麼樣的方式來對待他的下屬的時候好啊沒關係啊你去打1985啊我也沒在怕沒在怕的原因是什麼官官相護嗎還是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6870.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6886.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
這個事情有去了解嗎?像過去到底發生了多少類似這種的事件然後呢 讓這個義男不敢打1985然後呢 必須向外求助這部分有去了解過嗎?跟委員報告 我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6889.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6913.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
1985這個專線,那麼我們確實在就這個來打進來,我們確實有進行相關的控管那這位一男他沒有打這個1985,那當然也許就是如委員所講的也許他並不那麼相信1985能夠給他的這個申訴帶來一定的功能那所以就這個1985的相關的這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6917.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6940.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
應該要讓官兵更能夠意識到1985是一個可以來幫他處理相關事情的一個管道這件事情我們會來精進來看看如何讓整個官兵能夠理解1985專線設置是能夠確保我們對於他任何所遭遇的狀況的一個處理的獨立性 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6944.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6969.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
所以我們都希望說他這是一個個案可是本席真的不相信這只是個案所以我在想可能有很多這服役的異難他們真的是遭受到這個霸凌等等可是就是對1985沒有信心所以不敢打這通電話怕打了這通電話之後他會遭受到更加嚴厲的這霸凌所以我在想國防部一定要重視這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6970.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6995.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
因為國軍呢我們說我們要現代化不是只有武器要現代化還有服役的環境要優化我們的領導文化我們的軍中人權我們都要來重視喔所以除了說有這個我們有這個可能讓印南都不敢打的1985專線之外那我們到底平常的國防部對於這個基層幹部的這個領導教育人權教育還有反歧視教育等等我們到底有哪一些方案跟目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6996.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
7011.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
發生這種事情之後總不能說我把這個連長汰除或者是說做處罰就沒了因為這事情後續可能還會發生到底我們要如何如何改進這個基層幹部的這個領導文化跟教育請問委員這個問題確實是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
7015.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
7043.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
一個值得我們來深思的問題,那當然這個涉及到領導統一,涉及到管教適當涉及到軍機的維護這些等等那要怎麼樣子來強化所有的這些領導統一適當管教的一些作為等等,然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
7044.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
7071.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
也要兼顧這個軍中的人權我想這個部分我們會政戰局還有法律師,也包括法級教育這個部分我們會來我會請他們做一個全盤的一個檢視,然後怎麼樣在全盤的來實施一個讓全體官兵都能夠理解的這樣子的一個做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
7072.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
7090.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
所以我是覺得真的是時候來做檢討了那尤其是近年來我們發現常年定居在海外那在這服役年齡歸國很多他們可能就是學著父母親到海外去定居那到了服役年齡到的時候他們就歸國服役的意難 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
7090.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
7119.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
那我們之前有發現過就是說有些義男他是不熟悉中文或是軍中的生態結果他在部隊生活當中出現了不適應甚至遇到霸凌的這種狀況所以像在2014年的時候所以我們修了軍權法的第37條第4項我們規定就是針對副省人語言不通的這情形呢要有同意協助的這個制度那我想請問一下那我們法也修了那目前人力的配置狀況是如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
7120.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
7147.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
我們對於同意人員的儲備是如何我們是如何來做一個配置我想請問委員講的同意是指在部隊裡面還是到權益保障在部隊裡面或是說大家遇到有任何需要申訴的時候當他語言不通的時候像這個同意的協助我們到底人力的配置是如何申訴的部分應該是有這個部分檢法律是 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
7149.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
7172.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
委員好 我是法律事務室的司長 跟委員報告有關軍人權益保障法第37條第4項的規定所謂的附審原則上是以書面審查為主必要的時候可以請相關人員來到現場實施說明有關於同意的部分我們現在是如果有需要的話我們會協請台灣高等法院踏一個特約的一個同意的人員名冊 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
7174.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
7197.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
會按照我們相關人員他的國籍跟他的需求我們會請他來協助對 目前的狀況是這樣子所以我們自己軍中的話其實並沒有這方面的人力的配置所以要等到進入到高等法院的時候再請高等法院再來配置同意人員所以我們的做法是這樣這個是指在副省的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
7197.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
7218.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
OK 那如果是在軍中呢 如果在軍中發生語言不通的話我們軍中有所謂的同意人員的這個配置嗎我也好 我是政幹局局長 跟您做個報告現在目前有關於對於從國外回來 語言不通的一些議難其實在入伍的時候 議政人員會通知那麼我們在接訊的單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
7219.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
7230.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
他們會派遣 尤其跟他同梯的我們會先了解他的背景狀況跟他的語言能夠表達的程度然後優先由他同梯 然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
7233.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
7254.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
會懂得他的相關語言的來協助那麼另外我們單位的幹部也會跟他的家屬等等保持聯繫然後知道從哪邊切入去協助他那這部分的機制我們已經有那現在最近的其實我們陸軍的興訓單位也有這樣的案例那我們也都去了解他確實有提供這樣子的一個協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
7256.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
7277.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
如果同梯的話沒有懂得他的母國語言的話那怎麼辦我們會盡力去找到跟他能夠對接的相對語言的人力那這個部分比較多的除非有特殊的語言那我們還是要另外再尋求有關於其他的法治的協助這個部分就是跟法律師所提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
7278.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
7294.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
所以局長聽起來我們在這個同意人員的配置的人力的配置說實在真的很不完善我們就是看狀況而定看起來是這樣這個與時間的關係我對這個同意人員在國防部這個人力的這個配置我需要一份報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
7297.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
7325.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
我們來檢討一下有關尤其是在部隊委員關切的可能不是在他申訴或者是副審階段的這個部分我們會你們是說等到高等法院需要的話你們在那個嗎那如果是在部隊裡面部隊裡面如果有語言不通的一個狀況的情況之下要怎麼來做這件事情我們需要有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
7326.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
7354.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
有一個全面的檢討來OK好以上謝謝謝謝委員好我們謝謝羅委員接下來我們請林楚茵委員謝謝主席主席有請顧部長還有權動署的廖署長請部長請廖署長謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
7359.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
7385.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
部長好部長我上個禮拜有針對那個退役少校呂女士的案子來跟你做質詢不過今天我想要再進一步的來詢問因為就是星期一媒體有做了一個報導那就是呃呂女士她登上了解放軍的軍艦之後除了公開讚揚這個中國解放軍的軍力之外她回來還甚至於發了一篇微博但重點在於說她的這樣的一個說法馬上 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
7387.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
7410.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
就被CCTV還有就是中國評論新聞網所引用喔那麼我會提到這件事情是我想請問一下呂宇詩現在她的身份到底除了是退役軍官之外但是如果根據我們現在的現行的陸海空空軍士官服役條例的第五條 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
7411.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
7439.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
退役的所謂校官退役年限退伍年限是58歲那麼我稍微查了一下他現在的年紀可能大約是56或57言下之意他是不是具備有備役軍人的身份我為什麼會問這個是因為媒體發現現在相關的主辦主管機關必須要針對他的言行來進行行政調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
7439.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
7455.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
那麼到底是退府會還是國防部所以我想請問因為退府會現在說他雖然退伍了但是他是備役軍官的身份如果是這樣未來叫招還會找到他那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
7456.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
7482.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
這樣就會變成到底他的主管機關是國防部還是退輔會會不會形成兩邊踢皮球結果這個案子沒有人來做行政調查所以部長目前對於權動署有沒有了解然後或是部長這邊有沒有了解到底他現在目前試射這樣的一個行為配合中國統戰的這個行為他到底他的主管機關是國防部還是退輔會 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
7485.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
7494.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
他應該現在還具有備以的身份那他現在主要是涉及到兩條列33條之一是就是說如果會以這個有 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
7497.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
7521.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
不得與陸方的黨政軍有任何形式的合作行為這一個那這個的話依照那個適應細則的規定他的主管機關是由陸委會來決定那我們廣布的立場是我們願意來承擔就是說如果他指定廣布不過我最近好像剛聽到是陸委會已經指定 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
7525.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
7551.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
請問給退府會所以我想我們沒有在推脫任何這件事情的狀況我們本來就是說因為他跟當時的九之三的那個張又翔的那個不一樣因為張又翔他那部他是直接講到那個直接少將以上嘛那所以這個部分他是以身份來做認定那這個是以合作的情節性質那不能定制的話是由陸委會決定現在陸委會已經確定是由退府會 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
7553.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
7565.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
那麼本席其實因為時間有限不好意思部長要打斷你那麼我再做一個提醒那就是言下之意他在58歲之前他還有可能會接到叫招令會不會軍官不會因為超過12年就不會有叫招 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
7570.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
7590.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
所以言下之意就是對他來說他在這件案子上面就由退府會來進行這個相關的行政調查跟國防部這裡就沒有關聯我說我們國防部沒有都願意啦就是若有決定那若有決定退府會也好國防部也好我們都我們國防部都願意也願意 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
7590.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
7606.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
那麼就這個問題如果釐清的話那麼剛好就是我要來講下一個那就是其實本席在2024年省2025年就是今年就是預算的時候其實我也曾經提起就是在我們的預算書當中有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
7607.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
7623.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
社團的補助叫做中華軍史學會而這個中華軍史學會呢他從2016年到2026年每年大概有70幾萬的補助那補助下來之後10年大概拿了944萬大約是近千萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
7627.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
7640.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
但是部長你知道嗎,這個所謂的民間社團,它的設置居然是設在北安路807號後棟。我想您對北安路807號應該非常清楚,它就是設在國防部的營區裡面。 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
7642.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
7669.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
那麼這一個單位他說它是一個民間的學術單位它的成立的宗旨是激勵研究學術交流跟國際合作但是我翻了一下預算書裡面這一次您所提來的這個預算書當中的第十頁到第十三頁當中有關於社團補助就只有這一個社團而且為了這一個社團國防部還特別設立了 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
7672.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
7691.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
這個辦理中華軍史學會補助預算執行的考核的辦法那麼請問一下國防部為什麼要補助一個這樣的民間社團而且讓他還能夠設置在國防部裡面而我看了這個李監事大概 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
7691.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
7711.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
全部都是退役的军官而这个协会当中呢只有理事长跟秘书长而且他们都是无己职那么请问一下为什么国防部要特别补助这样一个单一的社团而且让他把他的会址放在国防部的后洞里面呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
7712.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
7738.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
委員好 我是政辦司主任這個部分我跟委員做個說明有關於對於軍史協會的一個整體的補助的部分國防部主要是坐在這個主管機關的一個角度希望就是在針對軍史的相關的學術研究等等領域能夠協助那麼在研究的深入的層面還有它的不管是廣度等等各方面能夠有一個發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7739.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7763.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
那麼這個部分基本上只有少部分的一個金額的補助那麼他設止這一段 我在想我們可能還是要再去了解一下他所以言下之意他對國防部來講他不是一個有特殊關係但是只是鼓勵軍事研究本席不反對軍事研究但是重點是這裡面有特別寫到這些預算就是讓他來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7766.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7773.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
這個經費包括開會員大會啦然後辦理活動那您知道他在去年辦了什麼樣的活動嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7775.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7799.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
他去年辦的一些活動基本上在申請補助的申請國防部補助的部分那麼都需要把他的活動計畫等等這些報到我們這邊來去做一個審查好我來告訴您2025年10月他辦理了一個叫做抗戰勝利暨台灣光復80週年學術研討會我想本席其實在這邊也曾經說過 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7800.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7820.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
中共特別利用所謂抗戰勝利80年來做這個跟聯合國成立80週年還有台灣光復80年來做一個台灣屬於中國一部分所不可分割的法律戰結果這一個由國防部所支柱 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7821.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7835.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
補助成立來辦活動的單位居然來配合中國的統戰論述這就是您剛剛回覆我他來辦理活動另外本席進一步的來跟你們要了這些名單 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7837.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7862.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
結果讓我在媒體上就輕鬆的找到了他的現任理事蔣海安曾經是48位退將接受統戰邀宴的名單當中而他的監事謝台喜則在2011年曾經參加過中山黃埔兩岸情而且還被登在中國的黃埔軍校當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7862.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7878.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
有照片出來而且網站的Banner還寫說促進中國統一所以我要強調的是國防部不能只給錢但是不管他在辦什麼樣的活動甚至於配合中國的論述剛剛為什麼我會特別 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7881.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7896.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
從前面的這一個退役的海軍將領來談起那就是如果說今天有一個退役將領因為登上了解放軍的軍艦國防部認為應該要處理那麼請問一下國防部每年編了七十幾萬補助的這個單位他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7899.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7917.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
沒有現在有任何的法律責任但是我要講的是一個態度那就是他可以參加有統戰色彩的活動在裡面擔任理監事那麼如果是這樣的話我就請問國防部如何跟第一線的國軍說我們現在是要 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7918.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7945.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
反滲透我們的敵方陣營在哪裡如何來對他們做所謂的忠誠教育所以我特別點出這個問題我只想講就是對呂律師來說我們要做處理那麼這個七十一萬八千的補助本席會提案全部砍掉因為他已經完全不符合現在國防部所應該要有的所謂忠誠教育跟觀念我不知道部長或者是 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7947.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7962.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
國防部怎麼來看這個問題?謝謝委員提醒,有關他的禮監事的組成,他的產生的方式,我們會再下去加一個了解,但是剛剛委員提示這個確實是非常重要,我們在他去年辦理相關活動的時候,我們也曾經特別提醒, |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7963.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7991.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
避免陷入中共利用所謂抗戰這個議題來對我們進行認知戰進行統戰的這些行為我們事後也會針對這個部分請問讓它核銷了嗎去年十月辦了這個活動你們也提示了那讓它核銷了嗎應該核銷了對不對這個部分我們要再了解一下好對我來說這樣的一個存在如果沒有真的具有它實質的作用而只是掛羊頭賣狗肉這種預算我會把它全部都砍掉謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7992.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
8005.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
然後對於為什麼要設在國防部裡面 請你們後續給我一個報導 好不好謝謝林楚瑩委員那待會王定宇委員諮詢完畢後 我們休息五分鐘我們請王定宇委員上台諮詢好 謝謝主席 麻煩部長我們請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
8028.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
8042.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
是 王委員部長辛苦過去本席在這邊質詢的時候也謝謝部長我們那時候說我們買這些打得遠飛的高的這些新型的武器但陸軍的步槍這些清兵器也很重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
8043.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
8062.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
那當時我們在新研製的T112我們認為說應該把這個紅點瞄準跟雷子器列為標配當時部長說對應該列為標配這可以加速我們新兵的訓練時程跟成效對於瞄準對我們步兵的存活率也有幫助 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
8062.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
8091.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
可是現在呢T112配發先從憲兵261營開始那我去了解一下基層的反應我必須要確認一下是不是有這樣的情形第一個第一批製造出來的T112齁有時候我們到205去打那個槍不錯就好像我們去看人家那個散步路齁都做得不錯真漂亮然後買回家之後就長得扁扁的跟原來長得不一樣我們現在這T112發下去故障率偏高槍管品質不好是不是有這個情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
8093.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
8122.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
有的話 精進計畫是什麼報告委員 我們到現在我們撥了500隻出去在使用中沒有回饋到這個情形 下去我們會了解這是我第一次聽到 我跟委員說反應不好我們會去做一個受訓調查那反應不好 未必是故意的也許是我們在製造當中有什麼問題要精進它 因為你後面是數萬隻在造嘛對 今年要1萬6千隻你前面這邊已經要回饋回去是第二個 你們當時標配的瞄準鏡跟雷子器 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
8124.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
8139.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
現在有配下去嗎 製造量跟上了嗎跟上了 跟委員報告 當時陸軍統建的確實是沒有每個都配一到委的指導還有我們的中央區局長 陸軍也在明年又再編一個案子116到118也買了數量 所以現在沒有標配現在沒有標配 所以沒有全配嘛 明年在118年之前都會變成標配 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
8148.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
8176.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
因為這個不是對外採購,這是我們國防自主的,401做的嘛對,徐曉鑫委員也問過了,我們在118年啊,按照陸軍的統建委有我們生殖中心401所以現在配發下去的槍,並不是都有他原來的建案的尾字就沒有標,可是在明年會把他追到全部都標配到161718建案,因為這個要修作序的部分,我們馬上就...去年已經講要做了,結果你們沒有做耶報告委員也不是說沒做啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
8178.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
8192.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
這個統計的部分因為建案期程不能去改他的作案需求所以後面我們有現在列這個是基層我從基層官兵得到的回饋不見得對也許要個人感受這個回饋我們回復但我覺得你們要納入考量第三個我們現在訓練有沒有空炮彈來訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
8193.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
8211.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
空包彈的話5.56的會在已經恢復量產了所以就是沒有嗎 現在沒有嗎之前已經因為戶限嘛3月已經恢復了可以生產空包彈了所以就是以後會有我現在問的之前沒有之前真的是不夠因為陸軍也跟我們反應過 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
8212.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
8234.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
阿陸軍這次委制了三百萬的話我們在年底之前會交軍我們去買強攻阿買什麼什麼我都覺得對啦齁但是步兵的單兵輕武器甚至我們陸軍常常勤儉持軍齁勤儉建軍這個東西空炮彈怎麼會到現在才開始準備要建呢齁再來M249扳用機槍也沒有空炮彈這都老傢伙勒老裝備勒M249是7.6在九月份 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
8237.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
8260.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
我們有分3月份跟9月份所以要今年9月份以後才有,以前沒有嘛這個也是我現在問才有問以後才有,問以前沒有嘛再來踢拐舞搬用機槍我們知道我們的機槍大概要大量更新了這都太舊了你陸軍應該陸軍應該最有感受搬用機槍如果用彈匣上的話打一打就卡彈對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
8263.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
8284.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
卡彈率很高啦那個陳常委長誠實回答嘛面對問題才能解決問題嘛搬運機槍是不是很容易卡彈我現在要火力壓制啪啪啪就要排除這遇到戰時怎麼辦就是說我們的搬運用機槍用彈匣射擊兩發就要卡彈變成用酸凍式機槍打兩發拉一次有沒有這個情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
8286.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
8311.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
報告委員 應該任何的槍跟彈匣的平常的檢診如果說的確在彈匣方面有受到外力的撞擊它原本的設計是不會這個狀況你們都是高階降臨的啦正常的故障率跟偏高的故障率你們應該都知道了有沒有這個情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
8312.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
8321.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
所以我要再下去做一下了解你現在不了解 你是參謀長可以現在不了解我跟你講 這個槍舊了確實故障率偏高我們知道那這個戰力怎麼辦對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
8326.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
8340.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
這個是火力壓制好用的 包委員我跟您報告有關於不僅僅是這個搬用機槍包含到整個的步槍的彈匣配附數委員也非常關切我們配附數當時講的是什麼我們要提升嘛因為從二屋戰場來看我們原來配四個那個幾分鐘就打完了你玩什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
8344.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
8369.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
所以我們現在是11個我們現在第一個依據委員的指導跟著依據委員的建議還有部裡面的指導我們的確把彈匣數量提升那原本的數量裡面他有我們也去重新做一個檢診不然到不羈腔的彈匣也就是說有這些狀況不佳的問題很簡單你剛好講到我下一條問的我們的彈匣配付量現在有沒有有沒有符合我們要求增加的量 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
8370.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
8399.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
7加2加2包委員向您報告 上次跟您報告過所以製造單有跟上來剛好在這邊我問下一個有關T122的問題要讓部長了解我們的雷子器到底是不是軍規的花那麼貴的錢你們到底用的是不是軍規的你知道玩具槍長買到的雷子器都比我們的稱頭雷子器可見光低光夜視快瞄標定 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
8400.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
8402.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
我請問軍備局你們現在雷子器有這些功能嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
8406.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
8434.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
跟委員報告 按照我們的作息需求我們的雷子次是具有的可見光還有一些的相關的功能還有包含射程尺寸的倍率部長就這一件事情 還有局長我們都希望國軍用到好的裝備花那麼多的錢要用在對的地方我們要求雷子系列標配或者紅點瞄準列標配是希望提升我們單兵作戰的能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
8435.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
8459.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
那我們在這邊監督的是政策執行面是各位來控管你們現在買的雷子器就我們401兆的雷子器跟國際現在通用的雷子器到底一不一樣比就知道了你去拉斯維加斯的玩具槍展買到的雷子器比我們用的還好規格對一下就知道了就我沒有少付錢喔我沒有少付錢那我陸軍的弟兄用到的雷子器為什麼要比人家差夜市 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
8462.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
8489.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
低光 可見光 快瞄 標定我如果這樣的價錢可以買到這樣子的東西結果我們401造出來的這個功能不到一半那就不行啦而你的標配八萬把槍配下去十幾萬把槍配下去那你配越多它就變災難啦部長你對這個事情有什麼看法是 我看到它的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
8492.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
8504.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
這個能力,他有提到這個雷射的範圍可見光要大於150公尺,不可見光是大於600公尺,可見光的功率要6小時,不可見光的功率應該是3小時。 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
8511.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
8519.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
那就這個部分委員提到了跟其他的部分的比較我想我下去請他們了解一下這只是裝備其中一項我們現在要買這麼多裝備那當然有的是國際標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
8525.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
8550.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
那我們國造不是不好我們當然要自己掌握我們的這個兵工相關的來源嘛那就是一個標準我花這個價錢我要求這樣子的規格做出來有沒有符合然後第二個標準是我花這樣的價錢韓國日本各國的軍隊一樣的錢而且也可以買得到的我們的規格有沒有落後人家我們現在連夜視鏡都落後人家雷子器也落後人家 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
8552.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
8576.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
我一方面我對我們基層的弟兄姊妹我們覺得捨不得嘛再來我們國家的納稅人的錢不應該是這樣用的嘛所以T1122新式的步槍我們去看去測都不錯交付的槍的品質有沒有一樣這是第一個故障率有沒有偏高使用的反饋的心情它到底用起來感覺怎麼樣你後面才能夠調整然後應該配下去的裝備有沒有達標 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
8579.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
8598.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
這個部長跟使用方消費者是陸軍那軍備局應該去了解來做調整否則大量下去了以後再出問題我們就很難說了好不好這個是有關的部分我最後借一分鐘問一件事情各位請問我請教部長這個是政策面的在 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
8601.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
8615.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
2022年當時我印象是邱國正部長美國的NDAA公開寫Regional contingency stockpile for Taiwan就在台灣建置所謂的區域緊急應變儲存庫 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
8618.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
8643.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
這個不是說是我們台灣要用是為美軍 他們在菲律賓也有 以色列也有我再講一次就是區域緊急應變儲存庫這個STOPPILE那本來我以為這個問了不能回答可是當時的邱部長公開回答了說有我印象是上半年的定期會我問那他回答說我們正在選址啊等等的那現在我看到2025年的國防報告書 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8644.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8671.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
我們這邊也寫美行政部門要求美行政部門要求喔 美國行政部門這是我們國家自己的報告書喔落實為台灣建立區域緊急庫存計畫就這個東西所以我現在請教現在2026年了這個計畫有沒有執行我想這個是不是能夠私下再跟委員做說明所以這不能公開回答可是你們寫在報告書裡耶然後邱部長當時是公開回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8674.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8692.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
邱部長說不能夠講說很明確但起碼往這個概略計畫已經有個方向他就站在你現在位置回答說我們今年正在處理當中我的意思是說美國的NDAA是公開文件嘛2022年說要求要為台灣建置這個緊急應變儲存庫 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8696.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8712.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
然後我們在2025年我們台灣自己的國防報告書說要求要求美國行政部門落實這個所以可見誰要來做這個緊急應變庫 美方我們是要求方 因為他們要做這個事情所以這個案子目前可以透露進到哪裡了 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8713.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8741.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
我們先跟委員報告一下第一點那個我們國防報告書裡面是直接摘述美國NDA他的說法那因為這個事情NDA是2022喔你們是2025喔我們的國防報告書裡面我們是引述美國國會他的友台法案對我們跟我們有關的這個項目我簡單講我的問題我看到你們寫的是要求他們落實所以是不是這個案子到現在還沒落實 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8744.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8763.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
你懂我意思嗎?2022年他講了嘛2025年你們講說落實一下那我簡單對語譯學的了解就是還沒落實啊啊你們不方便講我不勉強因為這個很重要啊那這個stop pile是為他們所用還是我們要用的? |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8765.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8793.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
如果說有STOPPILE的話當然不可能只有為美方所用因為一個STOPPILE在他們的原文講法是他們及友盟都可以用嘛在特定地點原本就會針對美方跟友盟的需求那目前亞洲這個STOPPILE有哪些地方我知道菲律賓有啦日本好像也建設了還有琉球琉球嘛琉球日本跟韓國有OKINAWA日本本島跟菲律賓嘛那中東是以色列嘛所以很明顯台灣是在這個STOPPILE的整個連鎖計畫當中的一環嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8795.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8818.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
但是有沒有落實其實蠻重要的那你們不方便回答我尊重基於國家利益但是我覺得有些計畫寧可早做不要慢這個東西是攸關安全的事情好不好好 謝謝部長好 謝謝維揚好 謝謝那我們現在開始休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
9183.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
9207.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
那我們按鈴好 謝謝那我們接下來請黃建斌委員好 謝謝主席我們有請顧部長我們請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
9215.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
9215.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
是,黃委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
9216.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
9244.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
柏廷宇 部長好我們今天要審查的是國防部115年的預算那國防部主管的年度預算今年是高達五億五千六百一十四億元那比一百一十四年增加了八百七十五億那這增加的八百七十五億主要是在人員維持作業維持跟軍事投資三個項目上面那光是人員維持跟作業維持的費用就佔了預算的三分之二這就是本期之前在委員會提到就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
9245.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
9260.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
養人跟養武器其實是最花錢的那不想你跟我都當過兵雖然我當兵的時候擔任的是軍醫我是醫護士那不代表我們戰死的時候不用上戰場那一旦開戰那所有的正規軍種全部都要上去沒有所謂的前方跟後方的問題那 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
9262.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
9279.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
尤其是這個專業的自由義士兵他更是主導戰場的重要的武器那我們今天購買的這個新式武器來太舊的武器不是不只是因為要符合現在的戰爭的形態那更是因為我們新式武器相對對人力的需求他會比較少 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
9280.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
9310.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
那它也可以減少我們少子化對我們國軍人員的這個壓力嘛那但是暫時的時候專業的這個人員士兵一定會有所損失那我們有沒有辦法足夠的去補充這些專業的軍事人員就是這一次的重點那如果專業的士兵傷亡太多我們又沒有辦法補上那可能就會發生有武器結果就沒有人可以操作的這種困境所以擴大各兵種的專業士兵的士兵庫就非常的重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
9311.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
9319.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
甚至讓後備的人員的能力來操作這些新式武器俄烏戰爭就是一個很好的例子我們當兩國都面臨戰爭時會有大量的人員傷亡 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
9322.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
9346.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
他就必須要徵召大量的新兵上去就因為你的新兵訓練的時間太短也會導致新兵傷亡的機率變高尤其是現在都在運用大量這無人機的戰場更需要專業的這個操控的飛手那這些專業士兵絕對是我們戰爭時候非常重要的資產而且不論是實施打擊或投彈或是徵收 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
9349.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
9371.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
飛行手都必須熟悉整個掌握飛行的技巧才能在暫時的時候發揮他的戰力但是我們訓練的量能跟人才夠嗎我們國防部說要人人都能夠操控無人飛機這是很好的目標但是我們現在的訓練的需求跟國防有辦法趕得上不然打仗的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
9372.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
9395.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
武器就是打武器跟糧草那尤其是專業士兵的多跟少那攸關整個戰局的這個發展那我們今天在國防部的預算報告裡面國防部提到很多要加強某某訓練但是對於怎麼樣擴大專業士兵庫還有如何進行具體的描述比較少那武器的操作都是要靠基層的士官兵 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
9397.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
9418.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
讓訓練更多的專長士兵在戰時絕對是好事這邊再請國防部在會後再提供相關的補充的資料就是你們訓練的相關內容另外在上個禮拜我們經濟部在院會有報告無人機產業推動的成果本席有注意到我國無人機主要的製造廠家都在西部跟北部 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
9419.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
9435.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
那花東地區只有一家那本席了解就是因為可能西部它有科學園區還有它的整個產業園區都集中所以方便各家的零件互補還有這個組裝那但是如果今天戰爭發生的時候這些區域絕對是供給的重點目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
9436.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
9459.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
那從俄烏戰爭到現在烏克蘭還可以持續的阻止俄羅斯進兵最主要原因是他保有他的生產基地他可以無人機一直在生產然後持續的生產那為了避免我國真的在戰爭的時候西部無人機的基地被攻擊的時候國防部有沒有考慮把部分的量能生產量能移到東部去 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
9461.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
9476.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
那當這個不幸戰爭發生的時候,我們東部還是有一定的生產的這個能力,然後維持無人機的數量那同時你也可以讓整個花東的產業有不同的發展面向,也可以均衡東西部的這個產業的差距我覺得如果我們有一定的生產的 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
9486.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
9492.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
能量這個才有可能如果現在的這樣子的不要以無人機來講以現在的這樣的規模 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
9495.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
9523.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
我看還是會集中在西部我們要預防這樣的情況你全部都放在西部跟北部那這個一定是暫時的重點目標嗎有沒有可能有這樣的規劃我覺得從安全觀的角度來看應該是一個好的事項因為我們其他的部分都有這樣進行這樣的規劃不管是我想有一些我們沒有辦法做過多說明但 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
9524.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
9549.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
這當然是一個很好的idea那但是這個部分絕對可能沒辦法從商業的角度去看要從國安的角度去看這件事情對要從國安的角度去看謝謝部長那另外要跟部長來請教就叫說是有報導指出我們中科院有研製這個M6A3的這個戰車的數位射控全電力砲控以及高解析的觀瞄系統那據了解現在都已經通過實彈射擊作戰的這個測評 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
9552.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
9566.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
那這個系統中科院規模跟他也規劃要跟我們的這個義大利廠商合作向國際來銷售那同時也爭取我們陸軍460輛的這個M60A3的戰車後續的升級訂單但是經過國防部全面評估現階段的兵力整建目標M60A3戰車後續性能的升級量並沒有納入 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
9579.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
9591.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
這個M6棟戰車不只是我國在使用像土耳其、以色列、沙烏地拉布這些國家都還在使用如果說我國透過國際合作來進行改良未來也有機會能夠進軍國際武器的市場提高我們台灣在國際的軍武市場的地位 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
9596.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
9611.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
這同時也可以大大改善我們現有這個M60A3的這個戰力嘛那我們也一直強調說要提升我們具體國防的量能那我們看韓國他的戰機 他的坦克 他的火炮系統都被多國採用我們是不是也可以把握這樣的機會然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
9616.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
9643.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
當時我們國防部為什麼還沒有遲遲沒有升級現有這個M60A3的理由是什麼那專科院你現階段有沒有規劃讓M60A3參加國際的這個防務展然後進軍我們國際的這個武器改裝市場跟委員報告M60A3相關的套件我們的確是透過美國的DSRA公司在做國際行銷那目前有兩個國家跟美國正在洽談中 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
9645.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
9652.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
有這樣的規劃嗎?因為我們在看這次在預算裡面沒有提到要升級的這些原因是為什麼?這個不在今年啦後面可能會有機會那未來有機會朝這個方向來發展嘛對不對這個合作應該也是這應該不需要編列這個不用 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
9667.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
9675.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
跟委員報告M60A3是我們中科院研發的針對入軍的部分目前也如同委員講的IOT已經過了那沒有說入軍現在就不建要不要建我們等到了這一兩週 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
9690.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
9716.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
陸軍正式的IOT的報告上來之後我們會請相關的中科院等等的人員針對當時的測評項目還有我們延改的金額的CP值做最後的定案現在沒有說不做跟委員報告我們現在等正式的報告上來好 謝謝院長的報告跟委員報告因為M60A3它主要還有一個引擎換裝它要做整個大的整修因為我們要全部把它換上新的引擎才有戰力 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
9717.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
9736.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
好 謝謝部長的說明 謝謝院長 謝謝黃委員 接下來我們邀請沈博洋委員好 謝謝主席 邀請部長我們請部長 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
9743.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
9760.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
是 三位非常好 那這個因為剛剛我在機密會議已經先問了一些所以這個時間上應該只剩一點點那我先想問一下 我先往後問好了就是第一個就是我們現在有為期14天的這個教照 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
9762.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
9777.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
那剛好也是在一年前在解凍的時候就剛好也是去年五月的時候那個時候我有稍微提到就是說我們現在這個訓練是內容是越來越好那當然還有兩個點一個就是說我們要如何讓他後來到民間之後他有一些新的專長 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
9778.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
9808.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
那我們本來是按照他原本服役的專長來去搭配他的教照的內容那如果說他又有一些新的專長如何能夠應用在教照這是第一點那第二點就是說對於已經過了一些教照期間但又很想要報效國家的這種人也有嘛那時候在解凍的時候我們有稍微問到這一點那不知道後續這一整年下來我們對於這種有民間專長的人那他在教照裡面有沒有什麼一些特殊的規劃這件事情目前的大概進度如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9809.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9823.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
我們現在叫召的順序會有最先我們有兩件事情要那個一個是符合他的我們所需要的掌權所以指名申請這一塊另外一個我們最重視就是主戰部的鞭屎然後立即 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9824.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9846.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
能夠形成戰力所以這個援兵歸援衛尤其四年內的然後每年叫招那這個是讓我們快速能夠讓這個主戰部隊所以這兩塊是最重要的也就是說所以指名申請是最高那指名申請這個要各單位要提上來這個指名申請要管制這個民間算場的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9851.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9878.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
也就是說他的重點是要做到他在當兵的時候可能沒有這個專長那可是他下去之後他有那個專長那這個時候指名申請會把他放在一個變成我們放在一個庫裡面然後另外主戰部隊的優先鞭死這個部分是我們現在最重視我們現在要把他鞭死之後能夠立即擅長那所以接下來才是這個要接受再進一步相當 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9879.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9896.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
一個時間的一個臨戰訓練的這一塊的部分那我們這屬於第三的部分那最後當然是戰後補充這一塊所以這個整個是要有一個相似的規劃那這個部分整個資料庫的建置是很重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9898.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9922.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
這樣聽起來這一年是有這個進展之後在這個預算審查的時候我就還會再繼續追這個相關的進度那接下來因為時間的關係我想再問一下我知道這個因為今天這個霸凌相關歧視相關的我看前面有些委員問如果有時間我待會再問我想先問一下這也是在去年也是在這個預算期間的時候就是對於這個高雄左營的這個都市計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9923.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9950.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
那時候有說就是有一些四處要蓋的這些高樓有可能形成國安的風險那個時候我記得在那個時候的參謀長有在去年的時候有回應說要去了解一下狀況那現在是否針對這件事情後續目前是不是有國安的危機就是有沒有可能它的高度過高或者過度臨近他能不能看到什麼目前來講這件事情的進度如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9954.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9976.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
因為現在目前的劃定的範圍是由左營軍區營運按照現在基線劃定的範圍所以說目前的限高的部分是沒有做相關的限制但是有相關的罰則會再按照要塞地帶處理法的相關罰則有做處分那如果說有相關的違反的相關規定的話會按照相關的處分去做議處 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9979.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
10002.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
簡單講就是說,我們現在按照這個要塞堡壘地帶法,或者是我們現在所規範的所謂海岸戰3D中央軍事設施管制,區以近縣間的範圍來劃定公告及管制作為的規定,我看了一下,大部分都是針對這個軍用機場,等等這些飛彈陣地等等這些,它距離這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
10003.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
10026.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
安全的要求來做但是對其他的這些基地在周圍那個的高度呢他並沒有做這樣的限制那所以他當然按照規定他是不可以對基地內來進行測量、攝影、描繪等等這些那不然的話會有一些行者但確實如委員所講的因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
10028.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
10045.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
因為沒有對它高度有做限制那台灣確實地狹人稠那很多基地可能在一開始的時候還是在可能40年前是荒郊野外可是40年後呢已經是一個一個到處都是高樓林立的這個狀態所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
10047.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
10066.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
這個部分我們確實沒有辦法在兼顧國安跟這個人民的需求這個部分取得一個就樓高這個限制上面來講確實取得一個兩全因為我覺得這個是一個麻煩之處但剛剛有提到就是說那當然如果他今天已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
10066.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
10087.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
假設他今天做了像剛剛講的測量描繪他看得到那個有相關的法則事後的這個沒有問題那就是說我們要如果要事先預防的話現在顯然還是有不足之處那這個呢我們就再來討論看看看要看要怎麼去預防這件事情我們總不能說等到傷害如果真實發生我相信應該會有很多可以預防的措施那這個就是之後再討論那因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
10088.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
10109.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
時間的關係 那針對這個軍中可能現在有一些像之前委員問的霸凌的啊還有一些權動署這個相關的這個推廣跟規劃的問題我等到在審預算的時候這個要討論這一個凍結或刪除的那一個時間點我再來詢問好 謝謝委員謝謝沈伯陽委員接下來我們請王安祥委員上台諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
10120.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
10140.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
謝謝主席,有請部長我們請部長我們現在今天在審國防的預算所以我們最近在研究的結果有一些所謂的建軍的 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
10143.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
10147.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
這個原則想要救教一下那第一個我們就提到這個所謂的無人機的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
10150.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
10172.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
那無人機的部分大概我們分兩類嘛一類就是所謂的堅真式的一類就是所謂的攻擊式的我上次在那個資訊的最後面的時候有提到這個事情那這個我列出來是在這個公開的那個特別預算裡面不過我們看到在常規預算裡面其實我們也買了一些無人機嘛包含這個或者是偽製或者是其他的方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
10173.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
10200.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
那我大概是不是請問一下就是我們那個尖針跟那個攻擊型大概配置的設計大概是怎樣以這個你們可以講的部分可以跟大家說一下攻擊型的部分因為它都是原則上來講如果是以這個自殺式的話它就會變成是消耗性的就是它一次攻擊完以後那以這種無人機的攻擊的概念來講它必須是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
10203.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
10220.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
低價大量消耗這種就是比較自殺型的嘛對對對他一定會去消耗比如說我要我要現在弓箭對不對那他我一定要先消耗他的那個防禦的系統然後盡量去消耗之後我後面再有根據比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
10221.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
10237.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
高價值的一些譬如說我們反艦會有雄二雄三魚叉這些在進行攻擊所以無人機的運用在我們太陽作戰你可以看得出來就是說大家現在在太陽作戰的狀況上面變成說它是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
10238.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
10262.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
以具有成本效益的觀念來進行一個比較低成本然後大量消耗的這個環境的方式來做那這個美伊當然像伊朗就用shared對不對那烏克蘭跟俄羅斯現在也都大量在用這些無人機對因為那個尖針型的對於就我們常說無人機的眼睛那個數量上我們現在配置上大概覺得這樣的數量上會不會太少還是說你們有什麼樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
10262.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
10270.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
健身型的無人機的配置上來講就要看這個無人機的我們也必須要考慮到他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
10273.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
10298.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
因為他有一個距離然後導控的距離他有他的一個見證的能力坦白講他的價格都不一樣是不便宜是是是那另外像這個攻擊型的他那個有一些剛剛部長說導控的距離這個有的我們看到這個距離非常短這個在實施作戰的時候到底他使用的操作方式大概是怎樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
10302.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
10320.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
我們先講攻擊型,像沉浸式FPV它基本上距離很短,它是在確定目標之後由人去操控然後去攻擊那個特定的目標所以它不需要太久的飛行時間,可是像投彈式的或是近程的中程的 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
10321.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
10349.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
它的飛行距離比較遠然後它的籌載比較大在這種情況下它的滯空的時間就會比較久一點因為它攻擊的目標跟對象就會跟沉浸式的有很大的不同所以這四種無人機的數量是我們去經過模式模擬之後精密的計算從遠、中、近的這個過程當中我們的消耗數量所列出來的最基本的一個額度 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
10351.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
10379.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
事實上現在從相關現在作戰運動上來講這個這個這個架數事實上還不夠還不夠真正面臨面臨的這個戰局我們主要目的還是先建立一個自主的一個能量的一個提升你如果自主能量不能夠提升你不可能再暫時的出去進口無人機所以這個烏克蘭的教訓給我們就是一定要能夠在落地生產 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
10380.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
10401.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
快速OK 這個剛剛都大概是比較偽製啦然後相關的部分那另外就是這一次那個軍控裡面OTIS啦齁這個好像也有一些這個人在說這個OTIS的這個效能好像不是很好然後上次我們在國軍好像在測試的時候好像狀況還不是非常非常OK不曉得這個部分OTIS的部分是不是這個次長跟大家做一下說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
10402.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
10418.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
發表我們針對Altius 600跟我們未來的籌購的Altius 700L這個部分這兩個它不是沒有國家在使用這種新型式的無人機它最大的特色就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
10419.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
10442.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
這些公司可以不斷的針對戰場上面所發生的這種狀況進行調整跟更新這是它的優勢可是這些新興的科技產品因為它迭代的速度很快戰場上面到底是怎麼樣產生它的影響它的效果事實上原因很多然後這些原因事實上作戰部隊它是不會對外透露的 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
10443.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
10452.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
因為這次美軍用伊朗好像用很多盧卡斯那個成本也比較低好像又是不一樣的作戰的思維作戰場景不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
10456.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
10474.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
所有的東西都是一分錢一分貨就是小幸這種無人機它的作用就是它比較便宜可是相對的它在某一些功能上比如說抗干擾它可能就會比較受限所以它在使用的時候會有它特別的安排並不是隨便什麼地方都可以用那我們針對這些武器裝備的採購 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
10478.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
10503.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
對,我想說一個大的picture,大概你們國防部的想法整個建制的想法是什麼?就是各類型的因為我們這幾個案子都是走軍購案走軍購案我們一定會要求美方在交運之前必須完成相關的測試來滿足我們的需求然後接裝之後也會依據台灣我們可能遇到的問題去做事實的修改 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
10503.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
10513.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
所以接莊的部分是我們派人去訓練嗎?我們要派人去訓練,要做接莊訓練他們也會派人來這裡協助我想這個很重要我上次質詢的時候有講到A7很多討論後來我們去審批文件發現好像有一個所謂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
10526.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
10551.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
可以做一些協助的FDCV這樣子的東西,不曉得國防部有沒有考慮到這個事情?有關於指管車的這個部分因為我們是屬於防衛作戰性質基本上我們的整個指揮體系未來M109A7的這個部分我們是希望能夠結合TAC跟TTN它的這個鏈路去走 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
10551.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
10574.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
因為我們不像美軍他是攻勢作戰他到了境外之後他必須在射擊陣地裡面有自己的指揮導控能力我們不是我們就是在這個地方原本各地的指揮所分散的單位他射擊單元裡面我們原本就可以做佈置所以這個對所以我的意思是說因為很多人說他這個比較笨重嘛是不是有這樣的裝備以後可以補步 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
10575.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
10576.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
我們現在以履代型的車輛來講的話在烏克蘭的實戰經驗裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
10591.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
10618.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
輪行自走砲的部分確實有展現它的優勢但是輪行自走砲的那個大量服役也是最近這幾年的事情所以美軍基本上大部分的步兵師、機械化師他接裝在上面妙動就可以起好 所以我覺得這個因為這個科技進步得太快啦那我們在省域上有很多這個不少問題啦那問題在就教國防部感謝大家的回覆好 謝謝謝偉 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
10622.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
10633.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
謝謝 王立強委員 接下來我們請劉許廷委員上台咨詢 謝謝謝主席 國防部長有請請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
10641.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
10656.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
是 林委員部長午安今天有兩個問題跟您做一下探討目前台灣的各式機場當然除了民用機場之外還有所謂的軍用機場或者是所謂的軍民合用的機場但是從法規制度的角度 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
10658.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
10683.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
針對這種飛航管制、航空器、航空人員、航空站管理現在都還是只有民航法、民用航空法那當然這個民航法開宗民義當然是為了民用航空的相關的配套做一些法規的規範但是因為實際上有些居民合用或者是軍用的部分那它總也跟航空有關所以現行就本席的了解跟軍用航空相關的一些法規制度它等於散落在各個條文裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
10684.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
10704.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
比如說民用航空法的第六條第一項比如他就講如果航空器要在軍用的這個飛行場降落應該要怎麼怎麼怎麼怎麼做或者是說這個要塞堡壘地帶法對不對講說軍用飛機場這個怕什麼賽哥啊什麼東西的深處進入等等的這樣配套寫在要塞堡壘地帶法裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10705.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10723.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
那國家安全法裡面也寫了要防軍事設施的安全然後如何來劃設管制區以及相關的境線艦線好 它是寫在國家安全法最後的噪音管制法這機場難免有噪音啊那這噪音管制區怎麼來做配套來處理啊它也就寫在噪音管制法裡面那這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10725.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10746.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
國防大學的研究裡面有講這個軍用機場的管理法制的研究裡面有講這個軍用機場它除了是機場以外它其實也是營區嘛所以它當然也要符合軍用管制的各項項目包含非安物理排除強制設法人員的離開人員貨物郵件的檢查特殊標準回送或劫持者的特殊處罰要加重還有機場污染管理問題等等它其實是 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10747.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10773.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
應該是要有一套完整的法規作業的系統所以啊這個國防部在105年12月的時候曾經有討論過這個軍用航空法有提過草案那麼本期今天想要稍微了解一下這部分是這一部分這個最後好像沒有下文或者是沒有進度這個國防部在這個地方的考量是什麼呢是覺得現行法規已經完備還是說有什麼另外的思考或者說推動上有什麼障礙我想要了解一下國防部針對這件事情的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10775.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10800.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
各位好我是空軍消防長 請那軍用航空法確實如您所說的我們之前以105年開始討論那這個我們也持續的在會相關的法律單位法律師我們這個案子也前一陣子去年也才會過法律師有一些相關的問題在裡面必須要還要克服那像軍用航空器有些軍用航空器的認定軍用航空器的使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10801.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10823.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
那目前的營區我們還是用都是依照全國軍就是您剛剛提的我們用這個軍事安全維護條例目前來維持這個整個軍事基地裡面的安全那這個法案目前還在審還在討論是你們國防部內部在討論嗎還是已經進到行政院的平台還沒有進到行政院還是國防部跟空軍執行部在討論的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10824.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10847.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
你們有什麼明確的時間表嗎 或者說這件事情其實也沒有那麼緊要沒有 我只想要了解一下國防部對這件事情的想法因為我是好意啦 就看到這個散落在各地 有時候修法的時候這明明就一兩條跟你們有關係 就修法的時候你們要跑來其實是很不效率的嘛 既然就針對這個軍用航空器也好 航空場地也好其他有特案規範的 也有一些研究支撐是有其必要的嘛那是不是這部分應該要來加速來做處理呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10847.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10872.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
所以這個部分也跟您報告目前還沒有一個明確的時間表說什麼時候會完成但是我們持續在進行部長您覺得這件事情這個優先性如何我的理解是對因為軍航空法裡面可能有一些比如說涉及到說誰有優先的一個那這個部分可能有需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10873.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10899.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
要再做一些跨部會的一些事情本期是好意啦就覺得說既然有這樣的一個需求可能就有這樣的一個可能性所以關心一下這樣的事情不過因為我們現在跟民航的單位我們都有一個當然你在現行的法規下已經有一套運作的機制我想應該是OK啦但是我想法規制度如果可以完善是好的我今天特別開這個題目的原因是因為大家都開始說無人機越來越重要對不對在各個部會裡面有些行政專用國防部也有不同的 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10900.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10925.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
取到去採購也好或者是製造或者生產有無人機的事故但現在無人機的管理是這樣就是說現在無人機因為它這個是一個新的概念嘛那從一般民用的民間使用的無人機啊大體上它也一樣有權利義務的規範嘛因為大家會擔心無人機掉下來啊或者是造成一些這些衝突大概慢慢的逐漸進入納管那麼在納管的時候基本上是由這個所有人要負不可抗力的損害賠償責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10926.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10948.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
換言之還是操作無人機的人或者是無人機的所有者他不管是故意還是過失只要造成損害他一定要負責因為這是要控管風險你也不能說有逃的機會造成使用上的一些困擾所以當然就有這樣子相關的一些規定所以要配合這樣的規定的時候當然就有保險等等的狀況去避免發生墜落或者是各式各樣那種的意外 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10948.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10976.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
好那現在我們今年的陸海空軍憲兵其實都有編列多元運用之行政用途無人機採購預算這算不算軍用無人機應該算嘛對不對在國防部範圍內這個應該是行政院統籌關於我們行政用的這個部分的需求的部分對我現在問的是說這些無人機到貨或你們開始使用之後在我剛剛提的這可能發生的問題的時候是要比照民安法對不對要負不可抗力之責任應該是這樣對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10979.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10996.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
我想我們剛剛委員有提到會透過保險的機制來處理那另外就是有關空域的部分現在經過行政院的協調已經畫設出無人機的一個相關不同類型的無人機的一個飛行的空域有要補充說明嗎可以的沒有關係我們把它講清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10998.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
11013.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
那個委員說明的是行政院的統籌計畫嘛統籌計畫裡面他範圍包含農業部啊交通部啦我們都已經訂立了相關的一個採購規格那平時啊都可以農業部啊可以跟交通部可以去循環境啊或者是那暫時他也可以歸我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
11017.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
11030.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
國軍還使用那剛剛講的空域都有綠定的有分小型中型跟大型的好像比如說大型的都有一些機場的部分我們都配合了相關的簡化程序讓廠商在申請的部分非常容易取得來促進我們無聯機的發展以上說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
11031.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
11046.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
好 從大的角度為什麼之前要再去提所謂的軍用航空法就是因為也許有軍用這樣的一些相關的需求那我想這應該也屬於航空器可能吧 這樣的範圍總要有一個清楚的一個界定我想這構成了這個一定修法的一個正當性大家可能要思考一下怎麼使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
11047.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
11070.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
當然你在現行的法規制度下面你已經有一套的作為所以我也要談一下現行法規我們再看115年的相關的預算裡面海軍跟憲兵這個可能我們可以交換一下意見好像我沒有看到本席至少沒有看到說有編列無人機相關的保險費用這部分是有另外的考量嗎還是說純粹是有一些特殊的處置的方式這個要不要說明一下增進彼此的了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
11072.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
11092.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
委員好 我是海軍常務長 有剛剛委員指教的 我們這個無人機確實是沒有這一款的確實是沒有納入保險因為當初它是急於採購 它是經濟部的統籌的一個採購但是使用完畢之後 我們會按照它操作程序 我們後續會編列它的這個保險 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
11093.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
11109.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
但是其他的無人機的計畫保險跟訓練都有包含考照都有含在這個裡面所以因為採購程序還沒完備但是有涵蓋在那裡那我就謝謝你的說明啦這是海軍嘛對不對剛剛還有憲兵呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
11110.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
11137.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
一樣的狀況嗎?我們都一樣的狀況一樣的狀況,還沒有採購所以完備,後面要注意本期有發現,所以就提醒一下今天要談這樣的質詢,其實不外乎是因應新型態的狀況在法規上、在配套上、在保險上面我都希望國防部做充足的準備部長還有什麼要補充的嗎?沒有,我只是補充,你剛剛講的就是說不管各型的無人機那我們現在在訓練上有需要一定的空域那我們也要預防有相關的這些問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
11138.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
11152.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
包括所以提到這個保險的狀況那還有這個無人機他的作戰的一個運用我們會盡量依照實況來進行那這些要怎麼樣確保他的這個不至於損及這個我們現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
11154.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
11176.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
因為面對這個新型的無人機的這個運用總是要大家要把配套跟制度完善這本席的本意也是如此所以才特別提可能也許軍用航空法它是一種方法嘛然後就界定空域等等有一套比較完整的法規系統大家要調整要什麼的時候它也有一個統一的這個架構啦所以本席是支持的我就希望這個溝通的過程跟政策的配套能夠盡量的完善 好吧好 謝謝 辛苦部長 謝謝了好 謝謝林委員接下來我們請許曉鑫委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
11190.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
11192.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
呃 謝謝主席 我們是不是能夠有請顧部長請部長呃 是 許若瑩 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
11201.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
11227.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
部長好今天想要跟你詢問一些有關於我們軍官權益的問題喔那我想呢我們是在看到整個行政院開始去放身心調試假是從114年的10月開始上路那官兵呢在請身心調試假的時候我想要問一下有沒有被申請但是被拒絕的案例那從114年的10月上路至今的話這種申請被 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
11228.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
11242.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
拒絕的案例 全軍目前總共有幾個例子這個資料我可能要下去了解一下你確定需要了解嗎 還是旁邊有普通呢要了解一下要了解 還是你們沒有統計呢你們有統計嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
11245.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
11272.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
目前都有在統計目前都有在統計那為什麼會沒有數字啊目前我們從這個月起都在統計從去年十月份開始我們就陸續在統計從去年十月份如果你有陸陸續續在統計的話你最起碼年底的時候去年十月到年底你最起碼會有個數字嗎你這個我覺得我沒有辦法你這個理由我沒辦法相信你是什麼時候開始做統計的你認真回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
11273.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
11295.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
報告委員 我個人是從去年11月開始就開始在統計那你為什麼沒有辦法給出統計的數字呢目前我們是沒有為什麼 為什麼你有統計但沒數字有統計但沒數字的原因是什麼這個數據後續來跟委員做個報告你有統計但沒數字 那這個月怎麼樣我當問你這個月好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
11296.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
11309.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
目前這個月或是你給我其中一個月的數字就是你們一直告訴我說有統計我為了你又說沒數字好那有人申請被拒絕吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
11311.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
11334.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
目前沒有這個狀況因為我們都想宣導了沒有人申請被拒絕你現在是所有的媒體朋友這麼多的這個軍人同袍都在這裡你告訴我請身心調適駕沒有人申請被拒絕你要為自己的言論負責真相是不僅是有人被拒絕的大多數人連送箭都不敢送我來講一下他 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
11335.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
11351.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
駐紮在左營,單位保密那官兵陳情反應他要請身心調適假,已經要請了但是卻被告知海軍司令部下達電話記錄說身心調適假現在有主管的裁量權 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
11352.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
11376.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
要有突發狀況家庭變故或是要有正當理由才可以請那我想問一下海軍參謀長其實你不一定知道因為我們剛好交接的時間是比較不確定的所以我為什麼我要問有沒有統計的原因也在於我不能確定他是在您上任前還是上任後所發生這樣子的一個情況那可不可以說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
11378.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
11405.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
为什么我们的基层官兵我不认为是您要求的可是说基层官兵在请身心调试假的时候他的主官告诉他说海军司令部他的理由是海军司令部说我们身心调试假在军方有主管裁量权要有三个突发状况家庭辩护跟正当理由才可以请但是请身心调试假不应该是要有这以上三个理由啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
11407.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
11429.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
我們有這樣的內規嗎報委員 這個狀況我是確實要下去了解來 你們真的要下去了解 因為呢我們的相關的請假規則裡面按照第十一條的規定軍官士官依前項第二款跟第四款請身心調試假 權責主官不得拒絕 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
11430.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
11456.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
這是依法不得拒絕所以我才講你們為什麼要有清楚的記錄就是說有多少人請了這個假的原因在於如果你們自己都沒有統計而底下一層一層的或許不是我們高階比如參謀展的要求但是他們一層一層的為了讓大家能不要請講了很多的理由犧牲掉了我們軍人的權益好那 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
11459.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
11479.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
這個部分這樣子 兩點 第一點我想我們應該會下去了解一下有關他的身心調適假的申請因為他可以主動提出然後並不需要 但是另外第二點就是跟委員報告就是說他還是有一個限制就是說如果在暫遠性任務期間啦所以我想我們下去再因為他這邊寫得很清楚嘛因為你不能違法嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
11484.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
11512.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
這個法律上規定的就是說軍官士官依照第二款第四款他去請的時候你不能拒絕嘛那你如果你有額外的情況的話那你也要另外去做記載嘛就說今天他跟你請的但是如果好假設今天正在演訓期間所以有什麼樣特殊規定他不能的話你們最起碼你要有記載可是現在我問那請問統計記錄在哪裡你們是拿不出來的我有一個訴求我想要跟部長了解一下有沒有可能就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
11514.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
11536.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
有請假的那讓他們能夠是有記錄的就是說你官兵申請的話呢你有留記錄不核准的話上面有著名理由嘛比如他是因為正在進行演訓任務或者是人力不足或者是有戰備需求因為我知道國防部可能跟其他的公務單位有不一樣的地方我可以理解 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
11537.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
11563.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
但是現在如果變成用一個口頭用一個電話沒有留下痕跡就讓大家失去了身心調試假的機會這無異於讓我們的軍官士官喪失他們應有的權益所以第一個我想在這邊請託的事情是讓他們在請假的過程當中你可以是線上的你可以是申請的但是你最起碼你回覆對方的時候那有留下痕跡第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
11564.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
11588.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
建立每季申請跟核准比率的管制雖然這個是屬於臨時性的請假但是國防部你最起碼要去了解各單位的每季申請核准跟駁回的次數如果一個單位會一整季都沒有人申請的話你們也需要了解一下是真的沒有需求呢還是這些單位有可以請假有人想請假但是不敢請假的情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
11589.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
11610.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
因為身心調適架它的目的都在於去舒緩整個整體公務人員他們的情緒的壓力避免後續產生生性問題甚至有自槍的情況嘛好 第三個請假跟心理輔導還有身牽脫鉤身心調適架它不等於生病不等於異常這一點我覺得我們要核心訓明 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
11611.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
11640.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
所以不應該自動進入到約談、新府、家訪或是個案追蹤這個不然的話我們就變成軍方的體系跟其他公務的體系我們對於身心調適下的看法跟處理方式是不一樣的除非官兵他有請求協助否則請身心調適下的人我希望他不要被標籤化也不能去影響他後續的考積、升遷或是派遲所以我想要請問一下我剛剛所講的這三點那部長您的看法如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
11641.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
11660.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
我想委員指教的我們會來檢討,因為來按照您所提的這些訴求的方向來看看,因為我們應該是可以要求就是說各級主觀就他不核准的理由來明確續明這件事情,然後再 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
11661.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
11672.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
如果當然就在演訓期間吧,任務結束之後再給予準價我想這個部分我們都可以來研討,然後來您講的說是不是要做個記錄等等,我們來進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11673.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11692.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
好,因為這個事情其實對我們一般的這個士軍官來說是非常重要的那又因為他們的這個特殊性嘛就是說,因為這個我理解,我要再次強調,我理解國軍的特殊性那所以他們如果碰到演訓期間有例外情況的話,那可能沒有辦法請 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11693.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11717.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
但是也不能成為就是大家未來約定俗成讓身心調適假在國軍裡面不復存在的理由所以希望我們的部長還有我們各級單位長官們都能夠重視這件事情讓身心調適假在國軍裡面可以形成一個好的良性的慣例也可以保障跟注重國軍整體的心理健康跟發展好嗎我請蓮姨跟各軍總來研討好 謝謝部長 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11724.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11743.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
好 謝謝許曉鑫委員接下來我們邀請王逸川委員上台質詢好 謝謝主席我們請保定和權動署署長是 王委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11754.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11777.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
副長我請教一下焦蓋酒,焦金國,他們在國防部的定位,那個地方是什麼概念?定位是什麼概念?那是一個園區、一個部隊、一個軍庫、一個...你現在在管嘛,全動數在管嘛,那個地方是... |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11781.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11788.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
是一個讓人去這套的地方,去那拜拜的地方?應該都是營區裡面整個是一個營區裡面你們現在開放的時間是固定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11798.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11823.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
沒有每天報告委員 那個時間都是固定的沒有每天每個禮拜有休息每個禮拜有休息一天好 那平常除了休息那一天 大家都可以去是好 那他去到現場會有多少這個軍官阿兵哥在那裡顧那個都有我們的那個儀隊會在那邊差不多幾個 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11828.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11853.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
日常差不多那個他有分嘛就是大溪跟那個頭寮大概這個因為這個派遣進駐應該是我們聯一但是我如果沒記錯應該都不會超過一個排的兵力OK那他除了這些阿兵哥以外其他有一些業務的費用差不多多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11857.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11859.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
一個月18萬一個月18萬就是官兵生 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11865.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11894.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
18萬跟委員報告就是那邊的桃園管理組他總共有23個官司兵還有聘僱他們的生活還有維護這兩個營區的一個29.4公頃然後還有一個是0.9公頃那池湖營區是目前的產權單位是軍備局那那個大溪就是經國先生的他產權是屬於那個總統府第三局跟這個委員這樣報告是我覺得聽起來比較好聽喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11895.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11909.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
都沒把單位管 是我講怕不費啦 怕不費我們只是負責那邊的平場的委管跟人員的進出還有他們官兵的生活 阿為什麼你們要把人家頂灰阿不用 這個是這個部分是 如果是 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11910.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11928.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
一般的團體過來是由他們自己去訂然後自己送進來不是我們去幫忙代訂跟委員做報告所以現在都沒有在代訂花圈花籃?是目前的話暫時沒有那如果他們有這個部分我們是不做這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11928.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11953.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
就做這個業務的做這個業務,那如果說有需求或是他有比較這個部分我們會下去了解之後再跟委員做報告,相關的報告我是問說最近還有人在頂啦,你們這樣幫人頂啦最近沒有我建議都不讓人家幫人頂啦那是營區來的,營區的人還在倒頂灰,怪怪的是你們這麼高的官兵,你說二十幾個,還要幫人頂灰 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11956.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11966.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
這個檢討一下,檢討一下第二個,這個地方聽說酒駕,就介紹他們的家族在裡面,最近有在討論說要把他刷回去中國,報導這個訊息你有接收到嗎?我這邊沒有新聞也沒有看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11980.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
12000.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
新聞你給我看了啦,不然來接受啦沒有啦,我這邊沒有全董事務家有沒有沒有來接觸,所以謠言一場不曉得,我們都不知道這個訊息有人這樣嫌疑啦,請全董事務研究一下,保證你關心一下,全董事務研究一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
12004.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
12014.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
因為想要跟他們倆,這算二百十幾、三千萬,每次去跟他們拜拜的人,台北人都是台北人,整齊啦,整個所有的台北人,放在中間廟裡面,這樣拜得方便,不用再定期遭到逃亡 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
12025.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
12041.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
研究一下,就是說他如果不刷檔去中國,也不一定放大那個地方因為東京紀念燈,本來你們就有...東京紀念燈,本來現在就有什麼...那些憲兵、閱兵,他們就放在那裡嘛,那也是你們的人嗎?我們現在是在廣場上面那裡面沒有啊?沒有啊那裡面現在誰在搞?應該是文化... |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
12053.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
12058.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
現在有一個大同巷子,該說的不是威權的象徵,明明就是威權的象徵,轉型正義就在那裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
12069.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
12081.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
先去研究一下,因為這個全黨事務這條也不太對我建議啦,因為有人也這樣建議,是不是把他們兩位領袖刷來台北啦適合的地點就是東京紀念堂,那個地方直接改名叫威權統治 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
12094.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
12122.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
要一個什麼館,這樣大家如果要去擺比較方便,這建議一下這看高雄人了解一下,不用出佈局,你就看研究一下,一段時間我辦公室大家再探討一下,補充你關心就好,這你不用表達立場你只要說補充這叫你沒有關於,因為這全棟宿,關於營區裡面有那些所以你研究一下好不好,也不用具體有什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
12123.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
12136.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
什麼答案啦,就研究看看有可行啊,不可行,還是說這樣社會會大動蕩起來還是怎樣研究一下,這樣好不好主要是我看到在醫生裡面有一條叫十八萬的 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
12138.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
12161.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
十八萬一個月賺幾塊,我也不知道你本地長要幹什麼阿兵哥本地人很漂亮,軍官士兵本地人很漂亮為什麼會有一筆業務的費用十八萬多,一個月一萬五千塊這聽起來都怪怪的,問你們的內容在做什麼你們也說沒有,一般官兵的內容而已這受理很奇怪 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
12166.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
12188.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
好啦 這個給你們台積十八萬聽起來也怪怪 可是你們也講不出個所以然為什麼會有一個地方一個月花一萬五千塊 邊境國防部的權動署的醫生來電 好不好好 這個就請你們再分析一下 好不好 好 謝謝好 謝謝王一川委員 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
12199.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
12224.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
好 接下來請陳冠廷委員發言感謝主席那我們先請這個國防部長請國防部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
12233.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
12261.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
是 陳委員好部長好 部長現在越來越接近川習會那我想請教一下 假設我們這個特別條例相關的這個進度如果是在川習會之前沒有辦法把它解決的話或者是沒有進程的話 那會不會有什麼樣的後果會不會面臨到這一個作為這個中國去干擾或者是成為他們談判的傷害台灣的一個可能性 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
12262.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
12284.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
我想官媒立場還是會認為會有損於台美的這個信任在長期以來在這個部分的信任關係的建構會有一點傷害會不會成為他們談判之間可能會傷害到台灣的這個國防能力上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
12285.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
12308.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
我想美國有一再的說明我們對我們的這些有關軍事的交流方面軍事的合作上面還有我們相關的這些編列預算都經過雙方共同研討出來這個部分他們一再說明應該不會有所影響但是我想他們也表達就是希望我們盡快 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
12309.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
12318.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
能夠這個通過這樣相關的預算來落實這個自我防衛決心的一個承諾那這個部分當然他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
12320.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
12349.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
有相關的一些認為我們應該要儘早通過的這樣子一個期待好謝謝部長部長今天我們談到DIU談到DIO那我還是一樣上個禮拜我有一再提到DIUDIO它是一個制度化的一個外部的創新的一個對我們來講是一個入口它是可以讓企業學員政府能夠常態提交技術跟合作想法的一個方式那這是他們的網站這是美方因為他們很早十年前就已經有正式開始了 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
12350.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
12361.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
那為什麼一直強調ZIO的網站的建制跟優化因為如果我們 下一頁齁如果我們的真案的入口還是用傳統的邏輯的話那ZIO必須從公告室徵求 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
12363.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
12389.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
那還是跟過去一樣的話那我們就沒有辦法走向常態化的接受創新這是一個最基礎最基本的一個要求那我知道說我們這個自己的DIO它從正式開始是兩年前嘛對不對兩年多前到現在兩年多前到現在不是說沒有時間喔是有時間給的那如果我們還是用這樣子的方式的話那你民間的企業根本沒有辦法理解這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
12391.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
12406.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
國防軍事的這種參與的方式沒有辦法讓彼此知道說你需要什麼我能提供什麼沒有辦法建立一種常態的溝通的管道的話那這個DIO就是只是另外一種過去的這種方式而已我們不希望是這樣子我們來看一下上一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
12409.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
12428.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
最上一頁裡面他其實有各種不同的角色你可以是這個提供創新這個議題的提供者你可以是過去曾經在國防部工作過去曾在軍隊工作你已經離職了但是你現在在新創產業裡面你希望提供你的能力你的技術你希望主動把你的 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
12429.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
12453.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
能力資訊提供給國防部讓未來國防部在那時候知道說有這麼一個公司在所以我們就不用每次來去開說明會那不知道是來的人會是誰應該都知道是都是因那一群人嘛在同樣的池子裡面那如果對方有這樣子的作法的話我們是不是可以來去學習一下那我還是要強調BIO是個已經算是個老組織了已經是十年前了我們來看一下烏克蘭的 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
12456.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
12482.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
有沒有聽過BRAVE1不知道部長有沒有聽過BRAVE1這個國防科技協作平台一個cluster一個cluster 對那我們也不要求說因為我們現在是在基本上是兩年前在學習美國十年前的做法那但是烏克蘭在實戰當中他已經直接去開發創新應用到一個新的平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
12483.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
12502.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
這個平台 它把新的企業 把新創公司 把科學家 把軍方 把政府把這個創投的這些工作者 全部都連在起來它不僅僅是這樣子它可以說是一個 你可以把它講成是亞馬遜 軍用的亞馬遜如果說 這些士兵 它如果能夠上傳 經過證實 經過確認已經有擊殺的 它還可以拿取換取點數 來去獲得更新的裝備 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
12509.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
12512.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
那我們現在的DIO或者是DIU也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
12516.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
12539.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
我們還是如果還是這樣子動不動三個禮拜四個禮拜八個禮拜然後我們再開一個這個徵求會的話其實他沒有辦法快速的因應他戰場上的變化他沒有辦法快速的因應我這個無人機我可能這個要改變像是我們講到的嘛這個通訊被破解了我們要快速來去配備新的通訊的這個韌體 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
12541.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
12560.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
要來去快速配備新的投彈的方式要來去快速的配備這個機體上面的更新等等的以前過去的話要重新研究重新研製然後再去等到他製造出來的時候也不知道符不符合戰場的需求就如同大家講的嘛符合戰場需求不是要最快的 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
12561.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
12585.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
我不是要最大的我是要最能夠適應戰場需求的那怎麼樣能夠有一個平台能夠讓在第一線因為我們現在講的是未來可能衝突發生時候的一個創新的平台我們現在在現在的DIO DIU也好它是在成平時間的創新平台那我們也要思考說怎麼樣可以兩種平台都能夠再結合使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
12585.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
12608.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
那我們跟烏克蘭沒有邦交 我們跟烏克蘭沒有直接的這種管道我們都可以理解 但是可以從中得到的是 因為他們是第一線直接去在做的 我很希望有能夠這樣的做法那另外一個在成平時間比較能夠做的 比較能夠推動的我是建議國防部可以參考美國的Hacking for Defense的模式 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
12608.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
12623.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
那他是由美國國防部他支持的這個大學的課程讓學生直接學生直接跟國防情報社群合作那直接把真實的國防跟軍事安全的這個議題提出解放 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
12624.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
12648.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
那一樣他們有他們自己的這種網站那官方他們自己有把這個過去他們軍方提出來的問題是什麼solution是什麼那總共目前是有三四千個學生參與六十六個大學加入已經有六十二家的新創了已經有六十二家的新創那我們現在希望是說把這個國防的創新生態圈把它做起來因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
12649.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
12677.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
說實在話每一天的變化都已經是超過我們的想法了每一分鐘每一天戰場上的變化從烏克蘭到中東的這個場域都有所以我想請教一下現在這個Hacking for Defense的這個模式我上次幾個月前我們在質詢說官方部長說部長有說到有已經開始在執行了那現在這個有沒有辦法在國防科學研究中心的架構下來試辦看看就是擴大來去辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
12682.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
12691.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
市長,您剛才提到的很多國外的這些創新的做法,以及美國DIU的這些創新的這些構想,包括還有烏克蘭你剛講的BRAVE1, |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
12697.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
12717.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
Defense for Hiking 這樣子的這些想法我們都認為非常的創新也非常的好那都值得我們國防創新小組去未來去效仿和學習的那但是因為創新小組畢竟就是只成立了兩年那我們現在就是初步把一些機制建立起來譬如說原型開發小批量採購去做驗測 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
12719.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
12742.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
像這樣的方式慢慢建立之後未來還有更多的可行創新的一些做法我們都可以來學習效法那您指導的部分包括網站的建立我們也都有在做構想了那希望很短的未來我們可以做更多的創新那當然還有一些法規上面的限制確實也必須要考量所有的採購就是政府採購法現在只要超過150萬的這樣子的 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
12746.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
12768.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
不管是任何的採購案都是規範在政府採購法之下那在法令還沒有辦法突破的情況下我們現在也還沒有辦法像美國那個Other Transition Act那樣子的不必受到他們聯邦採購法的限制如果說有沒有您覺得這個是一個必須要改變的話那是不是在法律上面我們要做一些怎麼樣建議上的修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12769.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12798.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
是 之前也有委員建議那應該就是要找相關的主管機關我們一起來研究那是不是有院版的這樣子的修正方案的話我們才能夠繼續去推動OTA這樣子的做法如果在暫時上面我們現在先思考如果在衝突狀況之下我們能不能夠快速捂獲我們現在看到的這個platform就是在衝突狀況之下快速捂獲那它是一個基本上是戰場上有需求 證明上有效就可以快速直接由中央跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12799.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12816.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
我國當地的廠商直接來去購置這樣的裝備立刻送到前線那當然這個是因為在暫時狀況他們緊急命令或者是什麼樣的狀況之下授權他們的烏克蘭政府做這種事情那我們現在的話就比較偏向美國的臣民時期的做法好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12821.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12833.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
我想我們應該還是按照DIY他們的做法來做然後來做一個這樣子的見證因為烏克蘭那個部分他是整個下放到各級的指揮官好像都可以進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12834.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12855.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
那是暫時的狀態所以當然跟現在不一樣不過部長我還是知道就是說我們現在當然是陳平時期先用美國的DIU我們是DIO那我們不用在暫時的時候馬上重新再想該怎麼辦怎麼辦怎麼辦因為已經有現成的狀況出現所以我們現在就可以趕快做好專案的研究萬一啦希望永遠都不要到那一天然後衝突時期的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12856.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12881.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
就會有一個比較完善的機制出來我們已經請陳平次做一個評估規劃我們跟中國比較不一樣的地方是因為中國做什麼事情他都要經過很長很長的行政的程序然後永遠都要提到最上面最上面的最後一個人拍板那我們有機制我們有制度我們有整個民主機制在所以我們跟他們更快速的做不一樣的事情好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12887.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12888.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
好 謝謝陳冠廷委員 謝謝那接下來我們是請馬文君委員好 謝謝主席 麻煩請部長你好 我們請部長還有軍備局局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12920.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12949.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
部長好部長今天大概是我們國防部的業務報告那也非常多的單位大概都有提出來我們目前正在審議的當然還有我們的國防的相關的特別條例還有我們這個總預算的部分還有基金的部分可是我們還是很希望就我們所有整體的國防支出因為以目前來看今年度的編列還如果包含特別預算的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12950.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12971.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
其實金額已經非常高我記得部長上一次有提到我們在對美的經貿談判RT這個部分 ART的這個部分其實我們沒有把國防的這個預算把它列入談判對不對上一次部長是不是有這麼提 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12973.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12998.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
呃我的了解是就ART的這個部分沒有應該沒有納入我們國防的系統可是我們顯然有喔如果按照這樣的那個呃我們現在目前可能有一些訊息出來是有達到3%以上啦就是我們GDP占3%以上事實上這是非常不合理的部分我的了解是這個是總統他之前做的承諾然後呃那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
13000.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
13022.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
的一個表示所以這個部分納入ALT的那個談判本來就是非常不合理因為如果經貿談判其實不應該把這個部分列入這是一個基本的原則上一次部長也提到那我們後續可能會看到可是現在這3%的標準其實我們早就達到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
13023.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
13044.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
以我們今年度編列的九千四百五十億的這個公務預算還有包括我們去年一千一百多億的這樣子的一個特別預算其實這個已經超過一兆那以今年的跟委員報告那個九千四百多億是含年度預算加這一個退府費還有海巡然後還加我們預計要通過的這個特別預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
13049.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
13076.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
沒有我們預期通過的特別預算不含在裡面光是我們的94沒有一照2500億沒有含有有含在裡面委員好跟委員報告那個115年的9495億裡面其中國防部的年度預算是5614億加上海巡署還有輔導會的相關預算以及剛剛提到的特別預算跟基金預算因為你們今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
13077.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
13085.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
對美國今天如果你只是對國內那你就不需要把海巡跟退伏會全部拉進來剛剛為什麼我們會特別提到說你在對美經貿談判的時候把國防的占比GDP占比3%以上把它列入就是因為你們要對美國交代 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
13095.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
13110.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
因為你按照NATO的這樣子的一個計算方式把所有相關的全部納進來所以你才有9450的這個部分再加上1100多億如果你們要這樣算那它就是已經高達光是公共計算就已經高達3.32% |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
13111.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
13128.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
九四是我們預估特別條例通過的情況之下在一百一十九四怎麼會含特別預算的一兆兩千五百億你是說把它拆開年度這樣子嗎是 當時在去年的八月二十一號行政院院規會記者會那時候的預估 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
13129.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
13152.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
你把它預估進去因為至少會通過一部分如果你預估只通再把它算進去的話它還是高達3%以上那高達3%以上的GDP也就是說我們今年度我們的總預算大概3兆的規模現在正要審可是大概3兆的規模等於我們國防支出每3塊錢的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
13155.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
13176.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
就有一塊錢是在國防支出其實它已經是會相對影響了這是我們要提到的因為這樣子的高的佔比三塊就一塊囉所以我們的教育我們的醫療我們的社會福利我們其他的基礎建設我們還有很多很多的人事費用其實在這個三塊裡面其他的都只佔兩塊那這一個部分我們更希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
13182.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
13204.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
他可以精準到位而且是真的可以做到國家安全防衛而且我們買的武器裝備其實是好的或者至少是符合我們的戰力需求或者符合我們自己的需求我們現在來看看我們先舉幾個例子因為還有很多那我們有些在預算的時候我們再來討論我想要請教軍備局長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
13208.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
13217.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
軍備局又買燒雞瓜了嗎跟委員報告我們的火藥線我們在4月15號我們又買燒雞瓜了嗎 簡單回應就好我們買燒雞瓜要製作3機要105戰車站的發射藥4月30號可是上一次巡打的時候我記得局長有說我們三一批已經買夠了而且在短期之內不會再買對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
13234.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
13243.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
燒雞瓜我上次沒有買過上次買的是108年燒雞瓜108年我們一公斤買多少這個我沒有看價格就是在108年那現在我們買的這次絕標金額是1300多萬1000多萬我剛數據沒有看得很清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
13252.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
13270.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
這一次一千多萬對對對好那這個案子需要輸出許可嗎跟委員報告自從你上次針對我們RDS的指導之後我們這個蕭雞瓜問過經濟部它均勉通用所以它就是沒有輸出的許可的限制那雖然聯合國說高於80%就會變火照藥可是我們從108年申請到現在都是以化學藥品來做輸入的好我想要請教局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
13281.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
13299.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
因為他這個如果在聯合國我們在招標須知上面沒有要求因為以前發生過從黑市買來走私品所以有丟臉國際因為有如果你要達到標準我們在招標的招標文件的規格我們純度是要多少91 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
13301.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
13327.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
91嗎還是99我是91以上我的招標文件是90幾啦那99其實就是火藥就是非常明確的火藥那聯合國跟國際法規相關的規定80以上就叫火藥80以下是化學肥料或者化學原料啦那我們這一次招標的這個部分它是99%從國外買來對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
13330.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
13353.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
是好那他如果在99%他規定是火藥所以他不可以運輸或者他就必須要輸出許可那他是怎麼克服這個部分他假如沒辦法運輸跟輸出許可按照我們的合約就是解約我們也不可能減價輸出所以他必須要輸出許可可是你又剛剛說他不用因為我問過經濟部他是屬於居民通用到目前為止 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
13354.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
13357.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
可是我們買的是火藥好那現在問題來了他可能是買80%以下的純度對不對這個得標廠商我驗收一定要91我不可能給他減價說是那你要怎麼驗收如果他買來的時候他是化學怎麼驗我們205會驗怎麼驗我們會送我們自己205我們有實驗室或者是第三方我一定要驗到我不可能讓他 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
13380.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
13387.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
合約91我們先說邏輯 局長我們先說邏輯它可以運輸它不需要輸出許可所以可見它的純度是80%以下那80%以下它可以你把它買進來以後你說要驗收老實說不需要驗收就知道它的純度一定沒有達到百分之九十幾因為九十幾它就是火藥就不可以運輸它就必須輸出許可這是第一個第二個 當你說要你說要 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
13410.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
13429.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
驗收 那國內的廠商可不可以做 國內為什麼沒有辦法做跟委員報告 因為這個產品啊它的濃度是很高 按照委員的推論是它出口不可能會有99 一定會81那是不是我們驗收這個部分會有用濃度低的來取代高的 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
13430.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
13433.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
不可能 因為108年也是用這樣去採購過的因為你上次 上一次也提到我們在講那個RDX的時候你說有很多在運送過程他就必須泡水因為他的濃度不可以那麼高你回來會再處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
13450.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
13466.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
中科院也會處理我們國內大概只有中科院我剛剛提到說為什麼國內的廠商不可以做比如像很多製造化學肥料的這些廠商其實他們都有這些原料也可以買這些原料可是他不能做的原因是因為我們規定像要做成製成火藥類的只有中科院還有我們相關軍備局也是都是跟中科院買的所以就這個部分他買回來以後一定要加工處理這是第一個問題他買的是不純的 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
13479.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
13488.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
那如果你可以這樣買那你國內的廠商就可以做了啦你不是你像這樣的原料你都要從國外進來才可以這是第一個問題好像有特別幫某個廠商量身訂做啦第二個買回來以後你要怎麼處理因為你明明知道它就不是火藥的原料你的規格裡面就是要99%結果它80%以下你要如何驗收老實說不需要驗收都知道它 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
13509.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
13529.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
根本不達百分之九十幾沒有達到你的標準可是你卻收了而且這個部分我們之前經常會被詬病說我們的炮彈不急發就是因為純度不夠啊你甚至以前曾經有六十幾%的濃度的所以我們一把它裝上去以後我們到時候不急發這是我們現在的問題對不對所以你覺得這個是可以買的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
13534.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
13544.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
跟委員報告我們108年也是如此的採購剛委員給我們的事情我們交代的就是指導的事情所以這個廠商他買進來的菲德檢驗局長你簡單回應就好了這個廠商買進來的如果不到我們的99%就解約我們現在持續還要再問的就是說知道這個案子是誰得標嗎這個我就 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
13557.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
13569.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
貿易商他應該是有代理我們有國際貿易法跟槍槍槍炮彈藥管制的輸出許可的廠商都可以所以你違背了我們上一次的主決議我們上一次的主決議就是希望在我們在採購的時候因為上一次就是有 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
13574.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
13591.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
馬桶商還有工廠行上面可以去拿到這樣子的一個標案我們現在這一次得標的廠商是一家電子公司他是做電子零件的包括電器開關配線器材還有電子零件他從來沒有做過任何的政府標案 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
13592.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
13615.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
而且他第一筆做政府的標案居然是攸關我們國防安全的這個火藥的生意他以前從來沒做過那國內中小企業轉型真的是讓人家嘆為觀止從上一次的之前的小吃店馬桶商還有茶葉商還有工程行是一樣的而且你立即在四月份又標出這樣的一個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
13616.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
13638.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
從來沒有做過他居然可以去買到這樣連我們一般人都不知道包括軍備局長我認為在這個標這個案子的時候因為五千萬以上要到你除非這個案子你早就知道他要標而且得標的過程你都很清楚那要追究的就是局長你本身如果不是像這樣子把它化整為零然後讓一個電子廠商從來沒有做過這樣標案的拿一個純度不夠的如果來交貨 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
13644.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
13650.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
我們要怎麼樣處置剛剛您說要解約嘛嚴格檢驗那時候在得標的時候為什麼我們不知道還是讓他得標這樣一個電子廠商他有營業項目都是符合的這是經過我們採購單位營業項目是你在採購須之上面給他訂出一個什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
13663.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
13692.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
具備槍砲彈藥 刀械輸出入業或國際貿易業所以你就已經在幫人家量身訂做了嘛所以這一家廠商一個從來沒有出過政府標案的一個從來沒有做過我們國防部生意的他可以很快的 很迅速的知道我們要買燒雞瓜燒雞瓜這個如果你不是講火藥很多人還以為是化學肥料他就是用化學原料把它進口來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
13693.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
13717.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
然後這樣的濃度如果我們把它接收下來又重複我們之前發生的問題這個部分我們希望可以給出一個清楚的交代好不好明知道已經剛發生這樣的一個標案你們在四月份又重複把這個這麼重要的火藥的原料來源給一個電子廠商他只做配線 他只做電子零件 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
13718.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
13733.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
這個部分有什麼看法我們會按照委員的指導嚴格檢驗依合約辦理假如不行我們就解約什麼叫依合約辦理他必須要達出99%我的合約這樣寫我就解約你會減價驗收嗎因為我們沒看到合約你會減價驗收嗎不可能那他要怎麼處置農農都可以達到99% |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
13742.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
13744.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
退官所以其實現在看起來這個標案其實應該就是解約一途了108年現在115年所以像這樣子這麼重要你如果缺的他得標囉 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
13760.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
13776.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
所以這個過程到底是怎麼一回事必須要清楚的說明我們一而再再而三發生類似這樣的事情這就是我們要嚴審國防預算的一個原因這個部分我們立即我想委員不應該說這有什麼一而再再而三這樣的講法他已經一而再再而三啦我們上一次說的馬桶上或者其他他本來就不應該如果你要放寬 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
13786.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
13807.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
這個不是一再它就是它又發生啊你就是又發生啊所以我現在再舉一個例子不好意思主席再一分鐘就好我簡單的講一個我們在國防部其實也買了一款沉浸式的FPV無人機我想要知道這單價大概是這個是什麼牌子可以看得出來嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
13808.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
13813.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
這個報價八萬塊,這是訓練用的我們想要知道這是用什麼經費買的?國會預算還是特別預算?這個曾經試的無人機 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
13828.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13841.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
這個是訓練帶用型的這個是公務預算麻煩要查一下這一筆公務預算這個無人機的戴式眼鏡我們可以看得到就左邊我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13844.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13849.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
我們的國軍弟兄戴的那個戴式眼鏡蝦皮賣的價格2880塊廠商給國軍的報價是一個5000塊這個很容易取得而且它是一模一樣的你們下去可以去查一下因為你把它 它拆開 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13863.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13885.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
他居然這樣就可以賺這麼大筆然後你整架的報價是八萬塊這個部分我們在所有的國防運動我們都希望他可以好好的去運用在我們的像我們所有的武器採購的這些裝備上面那這個部分我先提出來那時間的關係我們希望查查以後可以訊出可以給我們一些相關的書面資料跟結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13891.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13893.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
好 謝謝王文君委員 接下來我們請鍾嘉斌委員上台 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13904.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13925.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
主席 在上的委員先進 列席的政府計劃司長 官員 會長 工作夥伴 媒體 記者 女士先生有請顧部長 還有中科院的李院長那另外呢 我們請軍備局的林局長 那麼資源規劃司的藍司長還有整平司的苗司長 以及國防採購室的趙主任 請在旁邊協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13929.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13950.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
部長我這裡標題很清楚 採用美軍進擊採購來應對快速疊帶無人載具的戰場需求來取代我們目前的機具規格我們先看一下 目前無人載具疊帶迅速 那我們採購模式有區分所以根據我們媒體的報導 部長說我們要逐年分批採購 確保疊帶更新 這個報導沒有錯吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13953.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13973.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
我想我們的逐年的分批採購本身就要升級嘛分年就要升級就像我們買一代戰機 要買二代戰機 要買三代戰機那請問這個迭代無人機的戰場使用是按照月份的那我們的更新逐級的更新是按照年份吧 是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13975.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
14003.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
我想越來越會以這個軟體的部分的更新的期程來看的話週期就會越來越快好 很好 這個一個進步的趨勢 往下看我介紹一下 大家都看過美國的職棒大聯盟它可以從新人聯盟 它可以從1A、AプランA加 然後2A、3A上去那你自由球員也可以自己加入你認為你夠的職格這是美國式的選拔制度結果美國把這套制度用在他們的軍品才可以往下看 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
14004.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
14010.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
現在叫做美軍的無人機優勢計畫他的複製者計畫當中呢他說什麼他是以月為根心然後呢25家競逐11億的自殺無人機的訂單同時他也用了戰場的實證去驗證這些因此呢他是個螺旋型的開發基層的去實測那分階淘汰您覺得美軍的這個無人機優勢計畫可以參採嗎我想我們現在無人機的採購也會循著這個很好 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
14032.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
14048.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
這個概念之下來進行這樣子的一個訂單創新那我幫你試你一個方式啦比如我舉例假設我們四年內含研發改良我們要取得36萬架的無人機假設第一階段三個月我找一百架廠商只給他一百架的訂單我一次就會拿到一萬架 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
14049.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
14066.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
過了六個月之後我挑出五十家我給他五百家的訂單第二次我可以拿到三萬五千家第三階段我給他更久的時間研發升級二十五家來競標可以來加入那我給他每家三千家的訂單我這個階段可以獲得七萬五千家依序到最後 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
14067.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
14086.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
四年的時間我最後挑出三家廠商最後跟他採購各五萬架總共我在這個四年內我能取得五個迭代的無人機總數高達36萬這是我試用美軍的這個優勢計畫去做一個模擬那部長了解這個樣的一個設計方式吧來來院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
14090.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
14113.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
所以這個需要一次一筆很龐大的持續性的預算才能去支撐這樣的計畫所以說我們要告訴大家為什麼這次國防是用特別預算因為特別預算在四年內我有這樣的一個配置量但是我在採購的時候我是透過這樣的機制所以我是支持跨年度的特別預算方式但是採購的時候要有相應的這樣的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
14113.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
14141.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
部長 所以我們現在可以降低一次性的大量採購到一些不適用的產品的風險從此我們在評比的過程可以讓廠商持續優化事實上我知道台灣的廠商 無人機廠有去參加美軍的優勢計畫而且呢 他們怎麼樣他們可能沒有晉級到第二階段就是沒有拿到那個比較大的訂單但是呢 你一樣可以參加他下一集只是你沒有前一集的訂單去支持你的研發部長 我這樣描述你大概了解我的 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
14142.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
14146.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
是 對 但是這個這邊當然有一個問題當然就是在於我們現在的 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
14147.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
14176.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
量產的規模不大 廠商數沒有辦法擋到這樣子所以你看越到後來的採購量就越大它會刺激廠商去做整合 而且他們會限制產線其實台灣的無人機的我們的供應鏈是足夠的是有那個能力的 只是他們現在看的均用商規他看的商規是什麼 世界市場所以他不會投資 譬如說我們的光電球 我們的雲台他覺得別人有地方製造抱歉主席再給我一分鐘時間 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
14177.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
14197.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
好,那我們來看一下,這種情況之下呢,我再舉例啊,假設有個電玩,GTA6,我們想玩這個遊戲,我要去組裝電腦,有的人重視CPU,有人重視顯卡,有人重視記憶體,有人重視螢幕,但是不會有要玩這個遊戲,我制定了完全一樣的規格,我會根據我的預算性能來做組合,重點是他不要能夠玩得動這個遊戲,這是電腦玩家的思維,我們來看一下, |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
14201.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
14203.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
我們現在的五人機是怎樣?我們現在的招標規格是怎樣?以設定規格啊 籌載要5公斤啊你的續航要30小時啊 飛行半程50公里啊你的話速要4K啦 變焦32倍啊但是一旦戰場實測 它的規格到了 但是呢 它的雲台不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
14216.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
14234.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
或是晃動無法做影像判別所以說我們現在一直業界都在反映我們這樣的一個所謂的機具的硬體規格要去適應我們未來的戰場需求要把這個想定很清楚譬如說我要求你在GPS受干擾的情況下你能完成自主飛控或者說你的模組化的開浪架構你能完成業界的精準辨識那廠商他要怎麼去混裝那是他的事情只要我戰場實測能通得過請問部長你接受或支持這樣的一個思考嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
14246.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
14258.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
萬維在一開始第一階段您剛也講我們要很多廠商都能加進來所以軍備局現在是先用硬體規格來開沒有錯但是到第二階段開始之後我們是以戰場實測最後出來的優勝者開始逐步來篩選所以好幾個階段嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
14261.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
14273.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
對 而且後面都是以作戰實際需求為主 而不是以規格為主好 很好 這樣的宣示呢 這樣的宣達才能讓現在國內的供應鏈的業者 他很清楚不然每次看到我們的招標規格就來抱怨最後 部長 最後兩個 結論請國防部參採美國無人機優勢計畫建立剛剛建議的分批採購篩選的進擊機制 可以考慮嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
14283.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
14312.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
我想我們會朝這個方向來努力當然這個週期的當然我們根據我們自己的需要好 第二請公安部提出區域機敏後的可能戰場需求跟通用介面來評估可不可以納入招標條件其實廠商需要從你們的需求使用者的需求來組裝你們所需要的產品可以嗎對 我們本來就是會盡量朝通用介面當然需求就是屬於我們依照我們戰場的所需要的能力來進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
14314.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
14330.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
呃要求這樣子好謝謝部長謝謝院長謝謝三位四位哈謝謝謝謝中央嘉賓委員接下來我們請楊瓊英委員楊瓊英委員楊瓊英委員不在鄭振前委員鄭振前委員鄭振前委員不在賴思寶委員賴思寶委員賴思寶委員不在林倩琴委員林倩琴委員林倩琴委員不在林坤澄委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
14341.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
14344.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
好 謝謝主席我們請部長 顧部長是 立委來 部長 辛苦了 到中午了 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
14353.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
14378.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
請教一下部長就是這個呂理事他這個媚中的這個言論到現在也將近兩個禮拜了啦那這個兩個禮拜現在就是說陸委會認為說他違反這個兩個人民關係條例第33之一條然後呢這個現在就是說要請這個呂理事來到案來說明那推幅會是認為說呢因為呂理事現在具備後備軍人的身份 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
14379.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
14397.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
應該要先由國防部來進行調查而非退府會那我不曉得說國防部跟退府會現在對呂女士這個案子到底的態度是怎麼樣那何時會請她來做說明我在之前有回答委員的的質詢我們已經說明了就是說按照兩條例的 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
14399.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
14413.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
就有關山山鳥之一的主管機關他跟九字山鳥有點不一樣因為九字山鳥是指退役的少將以上的那那個部分是由廣布所以張又俠的案子當然是由廣布那這個部分他是由陸委會決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
14414.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
14439.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
那所以我是我已經表明說陸委會假設決定是國防部就是國防部懲戒那假設有退伍會退伍會就是懲戒那我們現在好像我們的了解是陸委會已經去喊給退伍會請退伍會來主辦所以確定現在確定是退伍會嗎確定退伍會那退伍會會不會退給你們因為退伍會就是說因為他具有那個後備軍人的身份啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
14441.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
14463.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
所以現在是我只能夠說如果他希望我們官部來主辦我們就承擔絕對沒有問題的那只是說我有聽到消息說好像是陸委會有去案給推因為這件事情快兩個禮拜了然後到現在退府會跟國防部還沒有決定說哪一個部會要來請他當然說我跟委員說一個沒有在 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
14467.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
14489.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
互相那個推的問題 這個是第一點 第二點因為這個部分它跟那個93不一樣 因為它按照兩岸條例的這個我知道 這個規定是由陸委會來決定所以陸委會決定是誰就是誰 我想我們沒有問題啦那陸委會現在決定是 推輔會是不是 確定那推輔會 它如果不接就推給國防部咧 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
14491.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
14516.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
因為他的意思就是說因為他具有後備軍人的身份嘛他建議要由國防部啊那如果這樣子是不是國防部就接下來因為我不希望說這個案子變成兩邊在那邊推喔我希望很快沒有兩邊在那邊推那陸委會已經確定是退伍會退伍會也同意接了也同意接了嗎確定我的了解是如此因為這個案子其實就很簡單但是我不希望說因為行政議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
14517.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
14541.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
現在看到說這個退伏會說這應該國防部沒有沒有 我覺得這個新聞不曉得怎麼出來的我們從來沒有說我們不接這個案件好 那就確認就好 就在這邊確認就是說陸委會他現在就是請退伏會來做處理那你說退伏會他也確定了那不要說退伏會後來就說沒有喔 這個應該是國防部來做處理喔不要這樣子就好了啊不會不會 如果有這樣國防部一定願意搶接 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
14542.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
14553.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
我不希望這樣子發生啊如果會已經請這個推幅會來做處理了那結果呢這個又再推來推去我不希望因為我希望趕快到外來做說明因為他現在還在外面嗆聲啊有法就辦我啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
14555.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
14580.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
就辦它 就去辦它那再請教一下這個部長這個我們在3月13號立法院已經有通過了先授權國防部簽署包含海馬式多管火箭飛彈系統等四案的這個發架書那現在授權你們先去簽約了嘛那現在將近兩個月的時間了那現在的流程是怎麼樣到達哪個地那個階段了 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
14581.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
14600.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
那簽署發價書之後在一定的時間就會有要付首期款的問題對所以我的問題是說我們現在四個發價書我同意你們授權先簽了對不對那簽了不是說這個案子就OK了嗎簽了之後還是要付錢啊對不對那所以我就問說我這邊還要說明一下授權我們簽發價書這不是一個長 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
14605.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
14620.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
常態應該有做因為過去都是我們先取得美方的公設意願我們就先送預算進來還沒有知會國會前就以精密預算知會國會以後就公開預算然後還是預算先審因為預算有了我們才能夠簽發價書嘛那當時就是因為發價書來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
14625.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
14646.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
那時間又很緊迫 那預算沒有過那我們才需要立法院授權簽授權但是如果預算還是遲遲不過那當然還是會碰到那個手席款付款的問題啊所以我就是要問部長就是說你現在授權你們先去簽了還是要付錢給人家嘛那美方的Daylight是有沒有這個DaylightDaylight是何時 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
14649.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
14672.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
目前我們走疫苗階段的是海馬市海馬市剩下的三個美方還沒有給我們時間海馬市的這個部分時間就是5月31號就5月31號你就要付錢了就要付首期款要付多少海馬市的這個部分首期款大概是8億多左右台幣 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
14673.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
14686.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
好 那所以是5月31日是Date Line嘛 對不對 海馬式的 是Date Line那如果5月31日 因為我們現在條例還在審嘛那可能會拖到這個參席會之後了那如果在5月底 條例沒過 預算沒過 那怎麼辦那很可能這個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
14691.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
14707.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
美方已經講得很清楚了就是他最後一封給我的信裡面同意延遲的時候後面的但書就是5月30日要沒有附首席款這個案子就會被取消講得很清楚了所以這就是壓力了嘛這就是我們的時間的壓力了 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
14708.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
14734.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
因為現在大家覺得說簽了授權書給你們那好像說這個事情就解決了沒有啊 簽了授權書只是說我們是延長本來就是要給錢了那可是因為我們就是希望他能夠延長這個時間所以呢這個先授權你們先跟他們簽但是呢你還是要付錢嘛那所以現在司長意思是說5月31號海馬仕是定來沒有付錢就取消那取消之後咧 重新再排一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
14736.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
14745.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
如果我們需求的話就等於作業要重新來一遍從現在爬一遍要一年多的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
14747.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
14770.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
海馬市之前從我們遞書發架書一直到12月知會國會他們加速作業也用了8個多月的時間那正常的狀況之下如果不是在雙方密切合作的前提之下我們是後面再提出的話那個時間應該就不可能是8個多月做得完就至少超過8個月而且價格勒?價格是一定會往上調 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
14771.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
14782.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
對啊 所以我就在問人說這個Daylight是合適 那另外三款咧三款他還沒有通知時間還沒有通知時間要看他的預約時間有定那時候說有可能有第五項的無人機發價書有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
14785.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
14807.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
Altius 700M跟ISR600的這個案子目前發價書還沒有過來因為他們當初700M在計算價格的時候那個陸區單元指揮部出了一點錯他有通知我們所以這個案子他在重新做計算所以現在對我們來講最急迫的就是其實我們也最需要的就是海馬遜系統它就是電線就是5月31號那部長那怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
14813.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
14837.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
希望 希望 儘快通過如果沒有咧 是不是就像市長講的就是重來一次 排隊 而且不一定買得到剛剛市長已經說明了相關的狀況就是像市長所說的就是這樣子就是有可能買不到 要排隊 重新來一次對 我想海馬斯對我們非常重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
14839.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
14855.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
好 我看得出你們也很無奈啦好 那我是講喔就是5月31號我是覺得喔大概機會不大因為現在這個川喜會在5月中然後韓院長又要出訪我們不是只有條例過 條例過還有預算我們要預算過才行 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
14859.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
14882.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
好 謝謝部長 市長 謝謝主席好 謝謝李委員葉延芝委員 葉延芝委員 葉延芝委員不在已登記諮詢委員出不在場均已發言完畢報告及訊號結束本會議有黃仁委員提出書面諮詢請列入登錄公報委員書面及口頭諮詢未答覆或者要求補充資料者請國防部的二周年委員書面答覆文有約定期限者從其所定好 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
14894.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
14909.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
15年度中央政府總預算案關於國防部主管收支公開及機密部分及附屬單位預算及四項基金案本路完成報告及詢答令則其繼續審查預算提案於5月12日下午10時截止收件 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
14910.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
14933.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
那最後我忘記跟部長提到就是我們中埔鄉有一位紹興的這一個商員那他是還沒有甦醒 將於6月20號退伍那我們還是希望說如果可以的話請國防部來去予以協助下去本日會議到此結束 散會好 謝謝再拜託了 他這個有在跟我們陳情 |