| IVOD_ID |
17412 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17412 |
| 日期 |
2026-05-06 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-19-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
12 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2026-05-06T08:31:07+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-05-06T12:24:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:52:53 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/16eb79f0bb3b77dbe2c43aff6c47feb9bdae56b7a60aa52c92d343e5acb26cebd8303337e8530e055ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-05-06T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：一、併案審查：
(一) 本院委員萬美玲等17人擬具「水土保持法第二條條文修正草案」案。
(二) 本院委員林岱樺等18人擬具「水土保持法第二條條文修正草案」案。
(三) 本院委員林倩綺等16人擬具「水土保持法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。
(四) 本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「水土保持法第二十三條、第三十二條及第三十三條條文修正草案」案。
二、併案審查：
(一) 本院委員謝衣鳯等17人擬具「山坡地保育利用條例第二條條文修正草案」案。
(二) 本院委員萬美玲等17人擬具「山坡地保育利用條例第二條條文修正草案」案。
(三) 本院委員徐富癸等17人擬具「山坡地保育利用條例第十五條條文修正草案」案。
(四) 本院委員羅智強等16人擬具「山坡地保育利用條例第十五條條文修正草案」案。
(五) 本院委員林岱樺等18人擬具「山坡地保育利用條例第二條條文修正草案」案。
(六) 本院委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具「山坡地保育利用條例第二條及第三十七條條文修正草案」案。
(七) 本院委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具「山坡地保育利用條例第三十七條條文修正草案」案。
(八) 本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「山坡地保育利用條例第十條、第三十四條及第三十五條條文修正草案」案。
三、併案審查
(一) 本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「農業發展條例第六十條條文修正草案」案。
(二) 本院委員楊瓊瓔等25人擬具「農業發展條例第六十條條文修正草案」案。
(三) 本院委員邱志偉等21人擬具「農業發展條例第六十條條文修正草案」案。
(四) 本院委員邱志偉等21人擬具「農業發展條例增訂第六十五條之一條文草案」案。
(五) 本院委員邱鎮軍等20人擬具「農業發展條例第三條條文修正草案」案。
(六) 本院委員陳超明等16人擬具「農業發展條例第六十條條文修正草案」案。
(七) 本院委員劉建國等18人擬具「農業發展條例第二條條文修正草案」案。
(八) 本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「農業發展條例第十條之一及第六十九條條文修正草案」案。
(以上所列三案併案詢答)
【5月6日及5月7日二天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:07 - 12:24:00 |
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663.268 |
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MING PAO CANADA MANGA |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1114.721 |
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1115.742 |
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MING PAO CANADA MANGA |
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1311.24 |
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1312.312 |
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MING PAO CANADA MANGA |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1459.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1478.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
谢谢观看 欢迎订阅 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1500.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1501.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
谢谢观看 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1566.561 |
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1567.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
MING PAO CANADA MANGA |
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1644.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1649.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
MING PAO CANADA MANGA |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1856.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1862.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
請主密報告出席人數報告委員會出席委員13人已足法定人數現在開會進行報告事項請宣讀上次會議議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1867.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1876.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
立法院第十一屆第五會及經濟委員會第十一次全體委員會議事錄時間115年4月9日星期三9時至12時41分115年4月30日星期四10時10分至12時19分地點紅樓101會議室主席委員邱映穎等14人列席委員賴志寶等14人 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1887.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1899.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
列席人員115年4月9日星期三農業部部長陳俊濟等115年4月30日星期四國家發展委員會主任委員葉俊賢等主席召集委員邱志文115年4月9日星期三8號事項宣讀上次會議事錄決定確定談論事項一 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1904.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1923.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
審查一百一十五年度中央政府總預算案關於農業部及所屬單位預算部分二審查一百一十五年度中央政府總預算案有關第二期款執行司及縣市政府第七項一般性補助款農業部主管第一幕農業部第二幕林業及自然保育署及所屬第三幕農村發展及水土保持署及所屬第四幕漁業署及所屬 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1924.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1943.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
第五目動植物防疫檢疫署及所屬第六目農糧署及所屬第七目農田水利署部分預算三審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於農業部主管農業作業基金農田水利事業作業基金農業特別收入基金及農民退休基金 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1945.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1969.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
討論事項合併詢答農業部部長陳俊濟報告後委員邱益穎等21人提出質詢經由農業部部長陳俊濟等及其答覆登記發言委員除不在場者外區域均勻發言完畢詢答結束委員陳昭明及徐欣穎所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報書面質詢和未及答覆部分請相關單位於一週內以書面答覆並複製本會委員另有要求期限者從其鎖定決定詢答結束並定期繼續審查115年4月30日星期四討論事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1974.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1997.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
1.審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於行政院稅務預算第五款第一項DMU即國家發展委員會及所屬擔任預算部分2.審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬擔任預算分應業部分關於行政院主管行政院國家發展基金離島建設基金華東地區永續發展基金及促進轉型正義基金台灣事項合併詢答國家發展委員會主任委員葉俊賢報告後 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1998.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2000.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
请不吝点赞 订阅 转发 打赏支持明镜与点点栏目 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2026.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2038.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
好因為在場為人數足三人請問各位同仁上次會議意思錄有錯誤沒有錯誤意思錄確定接下來繼續進行討論事項請一併宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2042.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2043.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
討論事項 1. |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2043.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2044.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
病人審查1. |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2044.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2052.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
本院委員萬美玲等17人 委員林丹樺等18人分別擬據 所讀保持法第二條條文修正查案等二案2. |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2052.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2057.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
本院委員林健吉等16人擬據 所讀保持法第三十三條條文修正查案3. |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2057.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2063.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬據 所讀保持法第二十三條第三十二條及第三十三條條文修正查案2. |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2063.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2065.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
病人審查1. |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2065.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2066.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
本院委員謝業鳳等17人 委員萬美玲等17人 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2070.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2077.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
委員羅志強 等16人委員林大漢 等18人分別擬據三波地保育利用條例第二條條文修正草案 等4案好 更正委員謝一鳳 等17人委員徐富鬼 等17人 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2090.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2106.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
委員萬民等17人委員林鄧漢等18人分別擬據三波地保育利用條例第2條條文修正草案等3案2.本院委員徐育復培等17人委員羅志強等16人分別擬據三波地保育利用條例第15條條文修正草案等2案 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2108.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2135.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
3.本院委員鄭天才等17人擬拒三波地保育利用條例第2條及第37條條案修正查案4.本院委員鄭天才等17人擬拒三波地保育利用條例第37條條案修正查案5.本院台灣民進黨黨團擬拒三波地保育利用條例第10條第34條及第35條條案修正查案3.並案懲罰1.本院委員呂一林等16人委員楊瓊怡等25人委員邱志偉等21人 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2136.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2158.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
委員陳昌明等16人分別擬據農業發展條例第60條條文修正草案等4案2.本院委員邱志偉等21人擬據農業發展條例增訂第65條之1條文修正草案3.本院委員邱振軍等20人擬據農業發展條例第3條條文修正草案4.本院委員劉建國等18人擬據農業發展條例第2條條文修正草案5.本院台灣民眾黨團團擬據農業發展條例第10條之1及第69條條文修正草案案宣布完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2168.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2194.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
好 我們現在在場委員有邱穎委員 林建啟委員 陳超敏委員 鄭振淺委員那我們稍微介紹一下與會的政府機關上農業部部長陳俊濟農村發展及水土保署署署長陳俊炎農糧署副署長陳啟隆林業及自然保育署主任秘書林允忠農田水利署主任秘書朱孝恩 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2196.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2224.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
農業金融署主任秘書李一新經濟部農業署署長吳志偉援助民主委員會土地管理處處長謝雅潔內政部國土管理署國土計畫署檢任政工程師陳富毅財政部國有財產署檢任秘書游淑滿交通部陸政級檔案司檢任計政湯如燕環境部環境管理署組長許正雄 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2226.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2246.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
法務部參事廖江憲好謝謝那本日議程所列討論事項有三案分別為水土保持法山坡地保育利用條例及農業發展條例部分條文修正草案本日進行詢答及宣讀條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2250.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2257.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
那現在我們請這個提案委員說明提案要旨首先有請陳超明委員說明提案要旨 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2267.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2295.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
首先本席僅就農業發展條例第60條修正案做提案的說明以往針對野生動物造成的農損是以防治為止例如電維網、防療網等但是今年野生動物侵擾日益增加例如台灣的猕猴野豬都從南部跑到北部來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2296.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2320.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
根據農業部統計,臺灣米火至少已侵害到14種果實及32種蔬菜,會造成耕種類、水田等農作物的危害。而且,其他中小型農類同樣會著食稻米、玉米、豆類等作物。 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2321.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2335.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
就像本席的選區,縣裡最知名的沙塘席就受國外的影響十分明顯那我在執行裡面也提出了好幾次雖然依照野保法第21條第一項 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2338.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2361.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
針對野生動物造成農業損失達一定的程度得以獵捕或宰殺但陳埔的農民往往不熟悉法令,跟去台殺生一樣希望與野生動物共存,進而導致農業損失日益加重 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2362.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2380.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
那這裡面有一個問題這些農民要如何去獵捕如何去宅殺請外面人來獵捕來宅殺搞不好比你補償的成本還要高我請部長多多考慮一下我講了好幾次希望你能接受這樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2382.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2407.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
再來因此本席體育案修正農挖條例第60條將野生動物造成的農損納入天然的災害救助補助範圍讓事前的防治災禍的補償能雙軌並行降低農民的損失我再強調一次部長好好考慮一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2408.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2429.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
當你請人來獵殺或宰殺的時候那些農民大概要去請誰不然你要有補治我們不曉得如果去殺搞不好我們被殺了注意一下 謝謝謝謝陳昌明委員我們接下來請林倩琦委員來進行說明提案要旨 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2440.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2464.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
謝謝主席我們府院同仁還有媒體朋友大家好那感謝今天有這樣子的一個提案讓本席能夠針對這個水土保持法第33案來提出提案的一個修正那這次本席針對這個水土保持法第33案的這個修正主要是在回應近年山坡地違法來開發的事件那這個頻傳那麼現行的裁量 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2470.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2494.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
財閥不足 導致水土保持制度嚇阻力明顯不足的一個問題來進行修法那麼近年來多起山坡開發 山坡地開發事件那常常見到沒有依照水土保持計畫來施工甚至涉及不可開發地區的一個違規整地造成大面積的一個陌路那麼水土流失的風險也升高對周邊居民的生命財產安全構成 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2496.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2509.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
很大的一個威脅那麼先前那個高雄的幾個案件裡面也有一些因為沒有依照這個核定計畫來施工那麼引發社會的一個高度的一個關注那麼也凸顯現行的罰則與實際開發的規模及公共風險其實很不相當 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2516.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2522.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
那現行的規定對於此類的違規行為僅處新台幣6萬元以上30萬元以下的一個罰緩那麼對於大型開發的行為而言這個罰緩的成本其實過低沒有辦法產生嚇阻的效果因此本案的第一項修正重點就是將罰緩提高那麼到30萬元到300萬元以下那提升希望對於這種大型開發的這個案件提升行政裁罰的強度 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2543.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2571.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
那最主要是讓違規的成本不再低於守法的成本那麼此外呢如果違規行為已經導致水土流失或毀損水土保持的設施那麼現行的刑責是6個月以上到5年以下的刑責喔那但是山坡地一旦遭到大規模的這個破壞往往都具有高度的不可回復性甚至造成崩塌、淹水跟下流居民的一個重大災害因此本案同步將刑度下限來提高喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2572.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2595.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
那麼以更符合重大違規行為對公共安全跟國土保持所造成的一個實際的危害那麼對於山坡地違法的一個開發不能再讓低度的裁罰成為破壞國土的幫兇那麼更應該來強化更強制制度的一個制度面來守住公共安全的一個底線那麼以上請各位委員來支持本案謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2599.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2603.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
謝謝林建祺委員的說明我們接下來請洪富祥委員代表台灣民眾黨黨團說明提案要旨好 謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2611.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2633.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
那我想今天的提案說明主要是在於說我們這幾年非法稻財土石違規的一個整地回田廢棄物跟山坡地水土保持失靈案件層出不窮所以從高雄若干的相關的事件甚至包含台南大樹光電場域等這樣的爭議可見那這個東西已經不是單一土地違規 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2634.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2662.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
而是他已經橫跨土石資源的管理農地的保護水土保持廢棄物的流向地方的稽查跟整個形式追溯的一個系統性的結構漏洞那目前現行的制度對於惡意盜採借牌的規避人頭地主人頭成豬人工程土方假合法徵棄制等樣態其實欠缺足夠的嚇阻力行政罰則是過低的 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2663.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2688.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
那麼在停工命令跟恢復原狀的執行不太容易積聚車輛沒路的不足跨機關的資訊的斷裂所以不法業者會把華凡視為是他的營業的成本那這些所造成的國土破壞農地的流失 地下水跟波地的安全的風險大概最後是我們地方的居民還有國家社會來共同承擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2689.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2708.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
那這個問題呢說實在的審計部早在111年的中央政府總決算的審核報告就已經揭露監察院更原始在114年提出了第006號的糾正案這個糾正案就是整個我們在迎接剩餘土石方的制度失靈而這個失靈的終點 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2710.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2726.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
也就是廢棄物這些都會到農地、漁園、山坡地跟水保地所以農業部不能夠置身事外必須支持農地端禁止回田坡地端的話我們要提高處罰水保端我們要強制整戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2727.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2749.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
同時要進到一個跨部會的土方流向的一個管理的一個平台來追蹤那從這樣的起點到終點主要牽扯到土石採取法、水土保持法、山坡地保育利用條例跟農業發展的條例所以我們在先前本席在經紀人會的質詢已經要求經濟部跟地礦中心就土石採取法 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2751.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2771.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
罰則不足跟管理失靈的問題那經濟部也在當時承諾在兩個禮拜內提出對應的願板的一個修法那這個地方我們想整個東西不是只有放在違法的採取土石本身這個包含整個農地的違規的使用廢土回田水保破壞跟災害風險的擴大 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2773.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2795.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
那尤其在這種汛期將至的時候這些的事前的預防事中的及時阻斷事後的強制護人跟追責的完整的一個整理的鏈所以我們希望在這樣子的一個法令的修正當中能夠來強制來提高嚇使這種系統性的一個違法事件的一個發生以上說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2798.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2803.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
謝謝黃衛祥委員的說明我們現在請農業部陳俊基部長就委員提案進行報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2818.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2835.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
趙委員還有各位委員大家好那今天經濟委員會審查水土保守法第二條第23條第32條第33條的一個修正條文的草案以及山坡地保育利用條例第二條第10條第15條第34條及第35條及第37條的修正草案農發條例的第二條第三條第60條第69條的修正條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2843.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2856.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
修正草案以及農發條例增列第10條之一第65條之一的一個草案那以下我想農業部就委員的提案做如下的一個說明那第一個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2860.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2889.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
第一個部分是有關於那個水土保持法的部分那水土保持法的第二條的部分那包括萬美林委員跟林大漢委員所建議的就是由我們原來的行政院農業委員會改制為農業部那這個部分我們想我們支持這樣的一個修正那第23條是牽涉到違規非農業使用的處理的部分那是由台灣民眾黨團所提到的部分那所修法的重點大概分為兩個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2890.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2906.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
那第一個部分是希望處罰是以案次的處罰修正為案日的一個處罰那同時鎮定未經同意而甚至開發的這個相關的現籍整複及屆籍未整複的裁罰以及待遇履行的一個規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2907.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2930.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
那農業部這邊基本上我們支持這樣子一個擅自開發經營及使用行為的採發的一個修法方向我們原來是支持但是針對整個條文的一個修正我們建議是以現行的23條第二項擅自開發之處分為基礎來進行修正然後來強化 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
2932.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
2958.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
採取的一個手段並在明確的規範改正的對象及義務以利於實務的執行那至於說按次改為按日的部分那事實上我們參酌的法務部含釋及多數的一個實務的裁罰的一個做法那現行大概都是以按次的方式來做處理那另外經濟部也預告的土石採取法的第36條的修正的部分意義也改 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
2959.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
2982.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
改成暗刺的部分 所以我們建議是維持暗刺的部分那隨時保則第32條的部分那是台灣民眾黨所提高 提出來的就是提高它相關的一個罰金的部分那基本上提高罰金 我想農業部是支持的但是我們是建議維持 就是我們定上限不定下限 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
2982.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3005.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
那這樣的話可以保留刑事的一個裁量避免輕微的一些違規的部分遭受到過度的一個裁罰但是我們定義的是上限的部分那第三十三條同樣的就是這邊台灣民眾黨團所提的按次修正為按日以及提高相關的行政划環的部分還有提高罰金的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3006.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3029.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
那還有另外提高刑責的下限由六個月變一年以上那農業部這邊的立場是提高罰金跟划完的上限的部分我們是支持的就是不定下限然後由法院做相關的一個裁量的部分那第二個部分是划環的部分我們建議是維持下限六萬元的一個規定那最主要是 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3029.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3058.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
避免一些低強度或小規模的一些違規的一個行為的時候容易造成這種違罪重罰的一個情形因為它是行政罰款的部分那罰金的部分我們建議是現在目前就是我們提高上限但是不定下限的部分那至於刑度的部分我們認為六個月其實已經不得一顆罰金了已經可以做相關的一個處置所以是建議維持六個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3059.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3082.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
另外第十條的部分,三波地保育第二部分,三波地保育條例的部分第二條的部分是機關民生的改變,我們基本上支持這樣的改變那第十條的部分是針對不得濫砍的部分,台灣民眾黨團所提到的就是徵定未經同意不得擅自啃食或從事相關的一個開發行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3083.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3098.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
那農業部的意見是未經同意甚至開發因為刑事罰則是構成要件然後我們同意這樣的一個看法但是在本條現行的條文裡面已經有涵蓋未經同意之意涵所以建議說維持現行的一個條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3100.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3126.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
那第15條的部分是有關於徐惠奎、羅志強委員所提到的針對修正山坡地開發的時候增加了一個人身安全之餘的部分開發者應付損害賠償責任那我想基本上我們也認同就是委員所提到的相關的山坡地開發的時候有危害人身安全的時候也應該要有適當的處理但是在現在的條文裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3126.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3138.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
我們以明定發生的災害那這個災害其實已經包括人身安全及產能安全的危害所以我們也建議維持現行的一個條文那第34條台灣民眾黨團所提到的是針對竊贊刑罰的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3143.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3156.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
那提高相關的一個罰金那我們基本上也是支持這樣子的一個定上限不定下限的部分但是這個罰金可能要配合水土保持法的第32條修正來一併來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3161.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3187.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
那第35條的部分是有關也是違規裁罰的部分那同樣是按次改成按日以及相關的行政划環的提高那基本上農業部也是支持有關於那個裁罰的上限提高的部分但是也建議說這一條應該也要配合水土保存法第33條的修正一併來處理那第37條原保地的管理的部分是由鄭真才委員所提出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3189.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3207.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
針對部落的部分賦予原住民查明及訴請法院緩緩是規定那這個部分我想是由原委會原住民委員會來主政所以我們會尊重原住民委員會的一個行政的立場第三個部分是 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3210.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3225.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
農發條例 第三部分農發條例 農發條例大概也是一樣第二條的部分配合行政院的組織改造由農業委員會改成農業部我想我們支持這樣的一個修正那第三條的部分是用詞的部分那包括邱振軍的 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3226.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3250.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
等人所提到的將天然災害的定義提升到母法的位階然後明確的陣列因氣候異常導致病床之災害以統一天然災害的認定標準那基本上我們建議現行是維持現行的條文因為天然災害的種類已經在災防法裡面去明定了 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3251.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3278.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
那明定的過程中如果農發條例再去定天然災害的定義的時候可能不同的法之間對於名詞的定義可能會有一些競合的作用所以我們基本上是希望說維持但是我也了解委員非常關切的當病蟲害的一個問題但是我個人認為病蟲害如果是因為集團天道所造成有區域性普遍性或一致性的災損的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3279.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3292.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
是應該而且這個災損是超過農民的預期的時候是應該可以去做相關的一個救助那這個救助後續可以在天然災害救助辦法去明定就可以做相關的一個採用 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3295.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3324.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
第60條的部分也是有關於天然災害救助的部分是包括呂議員所提的就是增列天然災害的定義以及因為野生災害危害得以救助的部分那我剛才已經提到了天然災害救助本身跟災防法已經有定義的避免不同法之間的競合的部分但是我也同意就是有關於天然災害如果是屬於病床害的部分它的病床害的危害有區域性一致性的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3325.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3342.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
那農民沒有辦法及時的去做相關的防範的時候是應該給予適當的一個處理那這個處理可能後續直接在天然災害救助辦法裡面去訂就可以了不用在母法裡面特別去把它強調那另外有關於野生動物的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3343.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3360.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
那基本上野生動物在認知上是不屬於天然災害同樣的就是跟剛才的解釋是一樣但是我們也知道野生災害就是野生動物可能會造成適度的危害但是我們現在農業部正在處理就是說因為野生動物的危害它並不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3361.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3380.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
一起被危害的他可能是零星的然後他可能是連續的可能今天明天後天都來那我們正在研議說怎麼樣去做這樣的一個界定如果適當的界定完了以後我想我們也會提供相當的一個補償的一個措施那另外邱志偉所提的也是同樣天然災害 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3381.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3405.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
還有病床在森林火災及野生動物大面積不可抗治的時候得以救助那基本上我們還是希望維持現在的條文但是如我剛才講的病床的部分我們應該可以在天然災害救助範圍裡面去處理野生動物的部分如果說我們確定了怎麼樣去實務面怎麼樣去實施這個救助的時候我想我們也會用專案的方式去明定這樣的一個處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3405.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3411.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
那森林火災的部分現在目前已經有相關的一個規範就在那邊了 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3413.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3441.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
接下來第60條的部分是由陳超明委員所提到的野生動物的部分那剛才我也提到了野生動物現在最困難的是在實務面我們怎麼認定那那個認定的部分因為它是零星的它是點狀的然後它是時間是連續性的部分那我想我們這個部分我想我們後續在實務面訂完以後就可以用適當的方法去處理那楊瓊英等25人所提到的就是先進災害的額度應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3442.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3460.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
是近一年消費物價指數叫前一年調整然後每兩年定期調整那我跟各位報告就是跟各位委員報告天然災害救助辦法裡面的額度的部分我們現在已經制度化每一年調整一次那第二個部分是有關於天然災害的救助的額度我們是用 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3461.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3483.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
生產成本當作基數來討論的來設計的而不是用物價指數因為物價指數不見得能夠反映到生產成本同樣的生產成本的提高也不見得反映到整個物價指數的調整所以我想也請委員支持就是我們在天然災害的部分不一定要定在母法 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3484.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3495.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
去做這樣的一個能力我們農業部現行的機制就是每一年就檢查一次特別在今年度我們大幅的去做相關的一個調整就是一個例子 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3497.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3523.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
那第十條之一的部分是有關於台中民眾黨團所提到的就是針對農業用地除了天然原土或是有機質改良外不得回田 砂石 瓦塑 糊泥土等那在這邊農業部的意見是因為現在的條文在農花條例的實施細節裡面已經有明定了而且在地方政府並有訂有自治的一個條例那已經可以做遵循的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3523.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3543.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
那第二個部分就是民進黨所提到的就是除了天然原土或有機質的部分那基本上天然原土是非常難認定的因為所有的土壤都是從原始的岩石開始風化而成為土壤的部分如果用天然原土的時候那事實上在 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3544.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3566.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
界定上更為混淆那反而會產生很多認定上的一個困擾那第69條的部分是台灣民眾黨所談所提的處理相關的一個罰環的部分那我想基本上在非清法裡面區域計劃法或是都市計劃法裡面已經有相關規定的一個罰則以及限制改善復原的強制執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3567.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3587.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
那為了避免行政管制的重複以及查法的法律競合的部分那我想我們建議說在農法條例不必放這一條以免避免不同的法律事件的一個競合那最後一條是65-1條的部分那是由邱志偉等21人所提的希望規範主管機關針對職業病 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3590.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3613.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
與傷害因素的部分防治的部分及設備護具的研發應該積極的進行研究跟推廣那我想本部是支持這樣子的一個徵定但是建議說並訂定相關辦法後面幾個字因為相關的這些職業病的因素防治設備的研發是持續在做的不一定說要訂在辦法裡面去做相關的一個處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3614.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3639.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
那基本上也感謝所有的委員提出相關的一個水土保持山坡地保育利用及農發條例的部分條文的修正那這樣的修正其實它可以遏止重大的一個違規然後持續照顧農民的一個生計那同時守護農民的健康那我想條文後續到了主條討論的時候我們再來看有沒有什麼樣的方式可以來處理上好 謝謝部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3644.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3660.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
那有關本次會議各部會所提的書面報告請委員自行參閱並刊登公報本任議程所列討論事項合併詢答分開處理委員執行權原例作以下宣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3661.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3688.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
第一 委員發言時間本會委員五分鐘必要時得延長一分鐘非本會委員四分鐘二 上午十點零分截止發言登記首先請登記第一位的邱奕穎委員進行發言謝謝主席 我請一下陳部長有請陳部長 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3695.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3723.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
部長我想順著您剛剛的這個報告說明的部分先跟您請教一下這個天然災害救助辦法的部分我想很多的委員各種不同的版本包括我們過去在執法裡頭名列的這一些所謂的天然災害現在都要把它放到農發條例的母法裡頭去這看起來是不是感覺上有點鐵窗架屋但是我想跟您討論一個議題就是野生動物 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3725.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3747.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
這件事條文有的人是寫保育類我想請教猴子是不是保育類不是猴子不是保育類他已經降到一般野生動物了猴子算是野生動物是您知道在偏遠的山區的農民對於猴害這件事情其實是苦不堪言痛恨對他們來講這個猴子的侵害 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3753.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3781.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
侵蝕他們的果樹果物遠遠比我們現在列的這些什麼颱風啊龍捲風啊 豪雨啊都還要嚴重那我們有什麼解決辦法除了我知道過去有裝了有一些設施啊什麼裝電網啦這個驅趕啦這對猴子都沒有用耶那未來比如說這個野生動物已經入侵到了這個農田入侵到了民宅損害這些農作物我們有什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3782.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3811.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
我跟委員報告就是說當然野生動物的部分我們的立場是不要放在農法條例但是不是代表不處理那基本上野生動物我們現在在考慮任何的一個執行要可執行啦那特別跟他強調的猴害影響很嚴重甚至比天然災嚴重是什麼他一直連續每天整個每天的部分那我們怎麼去認定在什麼的基準點去做認定還有就是說他可能是跳著不同的農戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3813.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3823.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
點狀的或者是所以我們現在我已經跟內部同仁講我們基本上我們會朝補償的方式來處理只是其實你們有沒有做過部長我請教一下你們有沒有做過這樣的一個數據圖喔比如說 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3829.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3847.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
台北市最近鼠患很嚴重所以開始有人在APP上面設置了幾個點標示出來哪些地方老鼠會特別多好那在偏遠的山區你們有沒有可能去做類似這樣的那你們就可以很精準的掌握到底哪一些山區的喉害特別嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3848.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3867.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
那對那一個山區的農民來說其實我們等於是特別關注特別觀察他們的果物受損情形進而你可以其實可以進一步的知道要怎麼樣來協助他們有沒有辦法去做到這件事情我非常謝謝委員的建議齁那這個部分在我們的天然災害的一個看在APP就可以直接利用啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3868.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3894.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
包括我們現在遊蕩犬有沒有 也是由大家通報的所以我就看在VPN上面是可以做到這件事情的所以我想我們會啟動這樣的一個機制但我想這個可能很多農民其實都還不太清楚我覺得這個可能還是要多一點宣導啦 這個避免我每次只要去到這個納瑪夏啦或者是不要到那麼遠 到六龜 到山林甚至在我家 在美濃有時候那個在 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3894.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
3907.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
大廳 廳堂裡面的食物 隔天早上起來全部不見了 全部被猴子吃掉啦所以我想猴害的問題 我覺得可能建置這樣的一個主動的觀測系統其實是非常重要的 這個也來跟農業部來請教啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
3911.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
3939.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
第二個就是說風災之後復耕我們一直在講水土保持剛剛談到的是在山坡地上開挖建置大型的光電板所做的這些水土保持我要跟您請教的是更小型的比如說我們的農民他常常是在跟我們的林保署租地耕作遇到了颱風來的時候這個樹倒了 路塌了可是農民是不可以任意開著怪手去整地的正式會被罰錢的 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
3940.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
3962.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
那就這個部分有沒有更精進的作為我們當然你剛剛講說哎呀來報備一下林務署都會同意但有些時候農民在搶復耕那個時間比什麼更可貴啊我想跟委員報告就是特別您剛剛講的這些比較小規模的農民的部分可能要看他的位置如果在2000公尺以上的時候那相關的這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
3964.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
3984.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
就是應該是2000立方公噸就是那個土方的量如果大於它的話可能要有相關的計劃如果小於它的話我們已經跟農村水保署提到的就是只要有一些基本的報備的部分看怎麼處理甚至於有一些是應該農村水保署來做的反而是應該農村水保署來進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
3984.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4006.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
你等到農村水保署來都太晚啦,那都經過兩三天你風太陽來,風也來,樹葉倒去,你比如說過一陣子啦,現在開始水蜜桃要開始盛產,再過一陣子孫子也開始要生啦,你如果等到大雨,風太陽下山,樹葉炸在路上,他可不可以自己開一個小怪手小山嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4007.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4022.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
弄一弄那還要報備報備在等你們核准可能又要一兩天不是我個人覺得說緊急的情況的處理跟一般例行的處理要切開啦那像剛才講的天然災導致所以你們有沒有緊急處置的作業辦法這個能不能來制定 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4026.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4046.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
八號委員我們是每個月都用衛星去比對那個變異點那變異點比對好之後我們每個禮拜比對出來的分送給縣市政府縣市政府會派員去看他有時候是一個一個中耕除草的方式就不會涉及財閥所以這部分會以實務去認定那如果超那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4048.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4064.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
2000立方公尺以下的土方他是用簡易水保設施簡易水保計畫那我們也在規劃說如何協助農民來做簡單的簡易水保計畫的申請不用再找那個那個代書來協助也省一筆錢這部分我們在努力中 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4065.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4093.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
這個署長你們現在講的都是一些比較固定式的我講的是風災過後的緊急救援我知道署長提的是一般的正常的方式那我剛才提到我願意回去以後跟農村水保署這邊就是天災過後的緊急的復原的部分應該做一些切割你的緊急復原狀態可以有一些什麼樣的快速便捷的方式是可以讓農民去依循我覺得這個應該要做不只有住水保署還有林務署可能這個部分也都要這個部分我想回去的話我會針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4094.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4117.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
天然災害過後的緊急的恢復的一個措施能夠便民讓農民可以第一時間就處理我想你朝這個目標來做我想我們一直在講這個山坡地保育今天主席拍了這個議題我再一分鐘部長這個讓您看一下這個大概都是山坡地這個種植光電板的狀態在去年大家都一直在講大樹河山光電廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4118.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4139.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
其實不只是大樹河山光電廠 全台灣有非常多的光電廠其實都蓋在山坡地上面 在偏遠的山區甚至也有石虎棲息地的山坡地森林 把它挖起來直接就種植了光電板所以我們在對於水土保持這一塊 跟能源政策這一塊 如何去取得共同點 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4140.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4164.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
那現在大家提案說要加重裁罰啦要逐日罰啦逐日去罰款這個我我認為可能會有一點治安難行但是就這一些案場來講他們其實都有申請過水土保持計畫水土保持計畫申請了之後誰去做後面的負責監督誰去了解他到底有沒有暗圖施工到底有沒有違法擴張 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4166.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4187.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
這個部分其實才是我們在管理上面一個很重要的機制第二個未來的山坡地山坡地的保育山坡地是不是還要持續做光電的開發是不是還要持續核准做光電的開發這個有關乎到政府未來的能源政策的走向我想這個不是我們今天在這裡談水土保持法就可以處理的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4188.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4216.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
我想非常謝謝委員的一個建議那特別是像你這邊看到的應該都是經過農地變更以後去處理的部分那特別是水土保濕我們也發現到不能光電的設計就是他提新辦事業或者水土保濕計畫很漂亮可是他做的時候可能糟糕了那我們用什麼樣的監督的方式處理雖然說現在是地方政府來負責監督但是我想我想應該可以用一個更積極的態度去做這樣的一個確認才對 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4217.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4234.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
所以我想很多的東西還是環環相扣那我剛剛跟您討論的這個跟農民有切身關係這個部分我覺得這個會比較迫切希望這個農業部能夠早日研議好不好好謝謝委員好謝謝邱議員委員接下來請鐘嘉斌委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4249.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4271.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
主席、在黨委員先進、列席的政府經貿組長、官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體記者、女士先生有請農業部陳部長、水保署陳署長、農糧署的陳副署長以及經濟部能源署的吳署長部長好部長好、兩位署長好、副署長好部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4273.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4302.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
我們知道檳榔園有兩種啦私私有兩種在台灣檳榔園一種是山坡地的大部分在南投屏東的幾乎都是平地的檳榔園是不是這樣子好那你那個麥有沒有開麥克風好是那平地的檳榔園我先問一下平地的檳榔園那個地是不是農地應該是農牧農地啊那種這些檳榔的是不是農民是啊可是檳榔是不是農作物 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4303.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4329.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
現在應該也是沒有啦,現在檳榔不是農作物只是沒有,不做救助、不做輔導對啦他也是農作物啦基本上種檳榔的農民都說我們種的不是農作物啦因為在我們農業部的發掘是沒有在幫我們顧的啦那農業部這樣的為難之處是監察院有糾正嘛是因為檳榔園它有兩個危害一個是水土保持的危害但是屏東比較沒有這個問題第二個是國民的健康風險,是不是這樣是 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4330.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4357.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
所以呢監察院要求我們農業部要去執行什麼?檳榔廢原轉作看到廢農民就緊張了我們來看實際成果12年從45700到36600減少不到兩成接下來你們又推動了農糧署要推動了廢原轉作兩年平均每年只有200公頃在這個速度下去要180年180年我們都不知道在哪裡了可能監察院也不在了那這個案怎麼辦?問題在哪裡? |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4359.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4374.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
為什麼?我們來看表層的問題跟底層的問題表層問題是誘因不足嘛,覺得補償的轉做的機會不夠嘛但是深層的問題是什麼?是農村老農化冰冷風的喔,都年尾有啊,人手手 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4375.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4391.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
剩下很辛苦的 不過什麼都老人工第二老人他沒有年紀大人沒有辦法做技術的學習所以這樣的轉作沒有辦法去落實的情況之下當然他為了要有收入很難廢嘛 對不對所以他們怎麼來改 我們往下看 來 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4392.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4419.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
所以我們一直在不斷地強調說為了要顧到水族保持,遇到國人健康檳榔的肺源轉作我們在屏東的平地要多元結合包括我借用林保署的林下經驗的概念變成設施農業讓這樣的一個作物選擇可以高價的作物然後這個價值要高一點像生薑的價值比較高,芹菜的價值比較高然後密集地栽種農業部知不知這樣的方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4419.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4433.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
我想委員也都是提出這樣的一個建議然後我也跟委員回應我們是支持這樣的一個方向就是檳榔平地的這些檳榔的部分能夠改成做溫室型的這些適當的作物去做這樣的處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4434.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4444.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
所以要知道問題出在哪裡 其實在我們看到的檳榔園 它離部落不會太遠但它有幾個情況 它的土地第一個不規則 都是坤掛的小塊一兩分啊 兩三分啊 零碎 這裡一撮 這裡一撮所以狗的人都騎摩托車 這裡順順的看一看 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4453.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4475.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
但是呢 我們如果要轉做 你說溫網市 造價高啊但是目前如果配合上屋頂型的光電加上儲能就有銀行的融資 就有受電的收益來分攤這是不是符合農業部的方向基本上我們也是朝這個方向在規劃包括溫室結合儲能的部分然後看看有沒有什麼樣引導相關的這些業者能夠一起來共同合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4476.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4496.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
那因此呢 文章就是提出了一個溫網租換貸在去年的風災造成很多溫網的損害之後我們就發現農民這樣兩三個紅胎他就都 錢都掉了那如果用租的有產物保險用來取代貸款來購買那麼農民就免備債但是政府呢 透過農業保險 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4497.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4522.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
透過那個包括農信寶的支持就有資金那溫網呢用租的他有受電收益是不是你支持租換代這個構想農民就免備債我想我也支持這樣的一個方向但是整個租的興建應該還是要由業者我們不是講業者而不是政府蓋的也會去租但是政府要創造什麼要創造條件嘛譬如說如果你有農業保險 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4523.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4542.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
如果你有產物保險那麼這個設施損害了有保險支撐嘛對不對是然後呢你的資金有農信保來幫忙有農業金庫來評估能夠去市場的估值那企業就願意投資農民他就可以不用自有資金來處理是不是這樣子是好那我們來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4542.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4562.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
所以我在去年8月12的院會我說強固型的溫網以租換代事辦計畫您說絕對支持請問現在事辦成效如何我現在跟委員報告我也曾經跟很多溫室業者去做談過那基本上因為去年很多溫室受損所以他們基本上還沒有時間想要這一塊但是他們第一個考斷就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4563.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4583.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
等他們南部這些溫室復建完了以後他們願意去蓋然後我們也找了一些業者特別一些特定的業者他也願意在那邊做示範的概念去處理他們現在在規劃已經談過了一輪了那個署長副署長有沒有示範的業者跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4584.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4604.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
有一些業者包括南部的這個公司或是中部的合作社其實都已經有在洽談你會給我一個清單我來輔導我覺得我來輔導跟你們輔導一樣都需要我想我們會後可以提供這樣子有意願的農企業他們願意進去那農企業他要做這個事情他一定要考慮到什麼他的收益所以我們來說儲能結合農業設施來強化電網 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4607.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4632.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
我在上藏州的院會也請教過啊院長也說好啊你也說應該可行啊可不可以把儲能列為各種農業設施的附屬設施可不可以我想現在已經在這麼做了已經在這麼做了嗎我幫你盤點了一下法規往下看農貓條例第8條8-1第二項還有你們的所謂的申請農地就是說設施的農需使用第27條還有這個一樣的28條第一項都寫什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4637.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4658.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
自用為主你看嘛 農業設施在45平方米以下的產品申請建造 而且僅能自用喔這裡面所說的設施只有這些喔而且呢 不得附屬設置綠能設施外這個法規都還沒有調整嘛 你怎麼告訴我說已經可以做了呢所有的農業附屬設施包括什麼 電感 電箱 配電 不包含儲能欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4660.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4685.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
不過我想我們現在在農業發展條例裡面剛才裡面提到的就是在45平方米之下是已經可以我們要解決兩個問題一個問題就是說我放寬這些儲能設置的設置的點位第二特別在溫室旁邊結合的部分這個必須要放寬第二個部分是有關於原來次用的它是不是可以準購就是賣給台電這個部分要跟農業組織對這個能源在你旁邊來蘇長你說一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4687.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4709.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
現在你們規定的儲能它只能收我自己的那個溫網上面的光電板我不能收別人光電板的電來我的儲能可不可以現在在農地上面是不行的對那是誰的法規限制了是農運署的法規限制還是農業部的法規限制了我的理解是那個當初在限制就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4709.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4728.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
土地地用的那一塊好像就限制住了所以是農業部限制了因為農業部認為這農地農用所以我這個農地農用上的農業設施的儲能他只能收我上面的光電板的電這樣讓他少了很多調度的機會他如果他可以順道的把處理周邊的光電板的電都透過這個儲能來跟台電進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4731.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4751.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
價位差的交易那這樣的儲能設施人家就有新辦的意願不過我想農業部很願意針對農地你蓋溫室以後附屬這些儲能設施我覺得這個我們可以解但是儲能設施能夠收哪邊的電可以賣的部分我想我們在經濟跟經濟部有個雙市長會議我們可以在雙市長會議去正式的考論 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4751.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4781.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
好 一定要喔 因為這個問題我在院會多次提出院長也責成經濟部跟農業部要趕快做可不可以承諾你們雙市長會議什麼時候給它解決兩個月內我們一個月開一次我們在這一次的雙市長會議就把它弄正式的議題然後討論的結果我們會跟委員說明很好 我期待你們有進度那接下來很快的 那麼強固型溫網已租換代的事辦計畫剛剛也問過了嘛 對不對那現在包括說漁業的養殖已經事辦了其他農業項目有沒有在辦呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4782.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4799.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
你說未來比照啊 去年八月是要講的沒有 現在部分就是特別是強調就是強固型的溫室本身因為我們在找溫室業者一定是溫室業者願意才能夠往下走啦所以還是在尋找當中對 還在尋找 因為他們現在正在忙啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4800.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4813.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
他們沒有時間跟我們談這個區塊我跟部長說明我對商業市場的了解現在在忙的都是原來的溫王的建置業者其實會用租賃型的是要新的進場 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4815.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4840.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
新的要進場 因為他不是幫農民蓋好固定型的他如果要是以租換代 用租賃的方式那他的一定要系統化 模組化他一定要有一個龐大的市場你請教一下 你看過人家正在辦桌子的啦 土地財富啦他的桌椅是不是都租的對嘛 因為有龐大的辦桌的市場這些桌椅的租賃業就會出來這些桌椅的租賃業跟原來的餐廳是沒有關係的 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4841.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4859.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
這些桌裡的租賃業不是租給原來餐廳的,它專門是因應什麼?版德來我在整咖,你應該了解版德是怎麼版的了解所以這個部分,可不可以幫我們去思考一下請新的農企業來思考進場,以租換貸就是用租賃來取代購買的方式,可以嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4859.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4882.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
我現在是在跟溫氏他們有一個協會有一個工協會然後看看有沒有有一些資金比較大的規模比較大的他有興趣的時候我們看怎麼樣去跟他合作他們還是要市場規模如果有一定的規模他就會投入他的租賃就會有流通性如果規模太小他跟固定設施沒什麼兩樣你了解了好那就拜託部長剛剛講的事要伺候給我兩位署長跟副長答應了謝謝主席 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4887.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4904.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
謝宗教兵委員號 超時4分鐘接下來我們請洪義祥召委好 謝謝主席有請這個農業部部長請農業部陳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4914.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4935.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
我想今天我們大概前面的提案說明大概都說明過那我是覺得其實我們民眾或社會大眾看到這些不管是破壞我們的農地、山坡地、水土保育地的話基本上其實我們看了都非常的痛心那這些不法的集團說實在的他們的獲利都是驚人的 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4937.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
4963.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
這個動輒都上億了最少最少都是幾千萬所以為什麼我們想要說很多的委員加上本黨團想要來做這樣子的一個事情其實就是我們認為這個違法的獲利是驚人這個交保程度是蠻低的所以這個我想部長應該也同意這樣子的一個事件是吧我非常同意所以我剛才也講了我們希望說那個罰金的上限可以拉高 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
4964.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
4968.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
那我的意思是說因為通常我們在做這些東西的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
4969.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
4997.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
你也知道中華民國的社會法官這裁員權是很高的所以我們弱指定一個提高罰款的上限但是不去定一個下限當然有時候你會說有一些老農民在自己的土地倒一些垃圾就被罰但我覺得我們再更積極思考這起碼是可以商議或者是去想這個辦法比如說它的違規的累積次數對不對或者是它的這個面積 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
4999.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5020.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
這個大小多大那我們去訂一個這樣子得一個罰則因為我覺得我看過這麼多的案例基本上來講這種交保的品就是那個成本太低我就把我當成我犯罪集團的不罰所得所以我是覺得說這個農業部可以再積極思考另外的話就是說為什麼說這個以前的 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5021.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5040.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
按次的處罰我們覺得不是很好因為那個次他就是一個進行式我今天弄完了讓你裁罰的時候基本上到底這邊他每一天都在倒然後這個到底是算一次還是兩次我早上倒一次下午倒一次還是說我明天倒幾次所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5041.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5054.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
為什麼當時我們想要說把它按日我們希望能夠提高這個嚇阻的作用保護我們的農地保護我們的這些的山坡地所以這個部長是不是可以做一個這樣子的考慮不過我想謝謝委員對農地的關心 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5056.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5081.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
第一個部分就是委員所提到的就是它本身的一個違法的樣態它可能有大有小然後實踐上有多的時候所以我們在定上限然後由法院根據個案它可以有它的一個裁量權那這樣的話也會避免到您剛才說的在家裡做一些小動作的時候也被罰巨額的這些下限的部分這是我們當初的想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5081.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5100.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
對但是我覺得可以再細膩一點就是說因為你想嘛我自己的農地老農民到的那個面積或是程度嘛不會很高所以它也不是所謂的違規是一個非法集團的樣態我相信這些東西你們從上訴這些案件都可以看到很多我覺得在這個下限的罰則可以再針對這種東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5103.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5132.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
去做更清楚的一個規範對不對寫在條文因為這樣子來講我們在做所謂的法官的裁量的時候我覺得比較會有一個依據不然這個時候我們看到的還是會被破壞這個部分我想我們進到主條討論的時候我們再看法院部內的同仁那第二個部分按日跟按次的部分我在這邊強調就是如果說用按日因為實務上大部分都按次因為按日有很多在實務面不可執行就是地方政府每天要去看 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5133.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5155.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
那每天再去處理這個相關的裁罰書然後再寄送要到第二天了因為送達才開始計算所以每天就重複做這樣的動作所以按次加上一段時間一個限定好一個禮拜或兩個禮拜一定要改善如果沒有超過這個一段時間的時候就變成另外一次了所以用這種方式在實務上操作是比較可行的 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5156.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5171.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
好這個我們想到逐條可以再來討論再來就是說省紀部在110年就已經點出這一些的問題因為他最後整個當然這個到了監察院這邊的話也是 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5171.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5189.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
他114年在糾正所以他這裡頭點出幾個問題第一個像你處理方案的位階過低所以為什麼很多的委員需要在農發條例或者是這些山坡水保把它加重或者是把它寫得更清楚一點那在這裡頭他也在這個報告裡頭審計部的報告也寫了他說 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5194.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5219.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
農業部等主管相關機關研商如何有效利用營建剩餘土石方中符合農作使用之土質提供農民使用所以這一段跟我們的講的說天然原土適合農作之有機質改良土我們想要表達是這個意思啊那不然的話就是也想請教部長什麼叫符合農作使用之土質 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5220.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5243.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
那你們怎麼去驗證這件事情我跟委員報告齁這個可能有一個觀念要釐清的就是所有農地你用土壤外面的土壤去做不能說傾倒去改良的時候會因為每一個土壤本身的質地不一樣需求不一樣而會去調整而不是說一定是什麼土才可以所以我們現在的土一定是經過土質廠過濾過濾完了以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5246.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5264.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
分成不同類別的土質的時候是由地主依照他的土壤的需求而去購買他是用這種方式去處理而不是反過來是由土質場那邊直接倒過來的所以我們是絕對反對由土質場那邊原來的土直接倒在農地這是我們堅決反對的 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5267.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5285.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
因為最後我們看到的結果是那樣子所以怎麼樣子去幫他做這樣的事情我覺得這個是農業部可以再積極一點再來這整個報告裡頭看到就是說農業部對於農業發展的條例完全都不是很支持我們去修這樣的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5286.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5298.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
那我是覺得這件事情是因為我們想要幫農業部提供一個比較有強而有力的這種法律的依據不管是在沒路機具恢復原狀尤其恢復原狀因為過去這裡頭我也 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5301.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5315.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
禮拜一我也去花蓮這邊看過整個農地的富裕對不對這個是一個很繁雜的工作那農民的生計我覺得這個對他們是很重大的影響所以我覺得農業部應該積極一點不然最近農業部的評價不高 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5317.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5337.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
我如果去做這個調查搞不好你會比書發布好一點點而已因為包含你的馬鈴薯、花生米這些進口動物用藥到動物美容地形化去很多所以我是覺得我們希望幫農業部提供一個比較強而有力的法律條文來嚇子在我們珍貴的農地上做廢棄 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5338.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5360.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
不過第一個部分我跟委員說明的部分就是依現在的相關的法律有如果農業部在訂的話那牽涉到法律裁罰的競合的部分那到底誰該罰那就會變得比較混亂的一個部分所以我們才會說不是我們不重視農地我們農業部一定重視農地而且因為已經有相關的法律的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5361.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5385.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
因為如果相關法律有,我們就不會產生那麼多問題監察院跟審計部也不會提出那麼多糾正同樣的,你如果說現在的法沒有辦法去執行都是有法法的機關,你在農業條例在定的時候原來的問題還是存現所以我跟他說我支持所有的法則是往上拉的那這樣的一個情況之下是有可以嚇阻的一個作用 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5385.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5400.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
我是讓農業部再積極性的一個思考最後我插一個小問題因為這個是最近的時事也想問一下農業部對這個看法因為我們這個農產的檢驗標準有38種農藥174項農產品農藥的標準重大變動通通放寬就是在昨天這個食藥署這邊我不曉得這個農業的MIL殘餘標準我們有是真的因應這些美國的這種關稅條去放寬嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5415.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5428.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
我跟委員報告齁所有的農藥的MIL訂定是由食藥署做的然後這個MIL的訂定會根據國內的需求而去做一些優先的處理所以我第一個我還是要去強調 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5430.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5447.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
這一次衛福部所提出來食藥署所提出來是跟美國進口的產品是無關的它是適用於全國的適用所有的進口的種類這個不是說針對特定的國家阿福瓶跟特安博我們覺得這些好像都是一個致癌的一個農藥的東西所以我是覺得農藥 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5450.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5469.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
要兼顧我們的健康嘛對不對所以農藥的實施這個才可以我要跟委員報告齁農藥所有的農藥都有它的毒性所以我們為什麼要訂它的最低殘留的一個標準在這個殘留標準之下而且是經過很嚴謹的科學的一個計算每一種作物的不同的農藥的殘留都有標準的 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5472.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5499.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
不管美國對我們關稅這種是怎樣我覺得這件事情國人的健康對不對我們的這些農藥殘留標準我覺得真的是不應該所以我才會說這個跟R的完全一點關係都沒有這是我們持續的在滾動我們農業部的防檢署跟我們的毒藥所一直在跟食藥署在檢視我們國內的農藥的殘留量因為農民要防治有新的藥有舊的藥要退場 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5500.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5518.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
那這個部分我想我們農業部也提了一個我們農藥風險的十年減半的一個計畫那也朝這個方向把劇毒農藥都退場這也是為了我們的那個國人的一個食安的一個把關好啦 請農業部遵守立場好不好 今天第一項我們一定會 謝謝謝謝洪義祥委員 謝謝陳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5530.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5540.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
好 接下來我們就請鄭振淺委員質詢謝謝主席 我想請下農業部陳部長農業部陳部長 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5549.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5566.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
因為今年1月的時候我在上個會期當中說我曾經質詢過就是農業部農糧署在2010年就開始實施大宗蔬菜播種量跟公苗預警的一個資訊那因為實際參與種植登記的農民比例偏低的問題那您當時確實確認了這樣子的一個問題的一個存在 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5570.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5595.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
那你這邊也特別強調說農民配合登記的意願不高那會導致一些登記數字跟實際的生產的存量產生明顯的一個落差那導致蔬菜價格可能會有暴漲暴跌的一個情況那您當時有提到說二月份的時候會推出新制請問一下新制上路了沒然後新制怎麼執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5597.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5622.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
我跟委員報告我們致力於整個種植登記的一個推動那大概有分為幾個階段第一個階段就是所有的申報系統過去是沒有串聯的像種水稻要申報種旱作要申報然後有一些我們天然栽救助以後要申報我們把後台的所有的製造部現在已經做了串接所以相對的現在全台灣的種植特別是多年生的果樹因為它種了以後第二年 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5623.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5642.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
不會再不容易再換所以針對除了短期業災類以外大部分的作物我們都能夠掌握它的面積跟它的產期那因為之前講說二月份要新資要上路嘛可是現在上路了沒基本上我們內部已經上路了因為內部上路然後外部還不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5642.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5665.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
不是因為第一個部分就是我們所有的種植登記希望說掌握全台灣種植的樣態的這些數據這個數據是為了應付後續如果第一線的公所需要這個資訊的時候我們可以立即提供所以我們現在也在跟地方政府的特別是區公所的人員在做對接把這些有效的這些種植的資訊讓他們知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5666.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5688.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
OK那部長我在想說我會特別在1月份質詢的時候這個5月份的時候繼續在追這部分就是我覺得東西有點重要啦那希望說我們現在不是只有內部在做我們希望外部也確實能夠知道那我這邊也特別提到一下日本跟韓國他們也都有類似的一個制度那日本他們從 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5689.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5715.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
1966年有蔬菜生產及運銷穩定法那它很重要的部分就是把那個指定產地跟指定的一個就是產品蔬菜產品做一個很清楚的一個納入那如果說指定的蔬菜價格低的時候政府會補貼那韓國狀態從1977年開始有農漁產品分配價格穩定法這樣的一個部分那他們基本上的時候呢也是用一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5716.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5735.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
平均價格如果低於基準的一個價格的時候政府會補貼這個狀態所以原則上他們都是用補貼的方式來提高這樣子的一個那個就是制度上面的一個透明度跟公開那所以說我在這邊我想特別請教的是說像我們因為今天也有在修農業發展條例 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5736.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5762.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
那我們是不是有可能把那個農民的種植登記的義務跟領取天然災害現金補助的一個資格把它做一個適度的一個連結那這樣子也許能夠從制度方面的時候能夠讓農民他們更有意願來參加這樣的一個制度可不可以請部長做一個簡單的回應第一個部分您剛才所提的日本跟韓國的例子據我所知它並不是一個說價格低到某個程度政府就啟動補貼我想應該不是這個意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5764.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5791.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
那後續我想我們可以請同仁再去精準的去把日本跟韓國的這個做法跟委員說明第二個您剛才說的就是把種植登記跟相關的後面的天然災害做連結我個人覺得在實務的操作面我們可以我做種植登記其實有一個目的就是在天然災害的時候能夠更快速的做現開的部分但是這個是在實務上的作為沒有必要放在因為母法都是在 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5791.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5808.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
OK沒問題喔那我們希望說透過不同的制度面的時候能夠讓這樣的一個制度能夠盡快的落實然後另外一個部分呢因為在韓國當中他們其實有把那個魚產品的時候有一起納入我們有沒有可能把魚產品也納入我其實我們做所謂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5809.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5830.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
種植登記甚至於是計畫性生產的這種概念的時候不管在容量的部分在餘的部分在蓄的部分我們是同步啟動的部分所以剛才特別講的是我們跟公所在對接就是要希望把這些更清楚的資訊讓公所承辦人員知道以後那未來農民去申請的時候他只要調資料庫 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5831.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5846.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
我們希望這樣的一個登記制度的時候能夠盡速然後盡速有效的落實然後讓台灣的這個相關那個農藝產品的時候價格能夠更為穩定那我接下來想請教在ART這個事情的時候因為在 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5848.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5867.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
勞動節的假期當中的時候那漁業界他們也上街頭了因為在ART當中是有一個部分就是對於移工招募費這個部分有個新制度他希望讓招募費變成零對於移工的負擔的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5869.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5886.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
因為如果招募變零的時候呢很可能這個成本會轉嫁到雇主的身上那台灣這邊的漁業幾乎用非常非常大量的漁工針對這樣的一個部分的時候農業部、漁業署這邊是表示說我們在 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5887.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
5901.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
那個規劃配套的措施那我這邊比較疑惑的情況是說我們這個配套措施當中的時候是不是就是三年後就是直接生效然後就讓所有的那個雇主他要去 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
5902.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
5927.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
付所有的一個海外漁工他們所有的一個招募成本我想我要趁這個機會再次澄清就不是說所有的招募費就全部由雇主來負擔因為現在仲介所收取的付用費用有所謂的仲介費然後還有所謂的服務費的部分如果說你有服務對漁工服務 漁工就要付費那這個部分要非常清楚的去了解的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
5928.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
5949.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
所以我們現在針對所有的仲介在收的部分我們會更透明化的去做這個清單的比對那有一些是該移工付的就一定是移工付那有一些是比較可以討論的我們會拉出來所以不是說過去的仲介費他們是說什麼六千塊美金一律是由雇主來付我覺得這個資訊是不對的那第二個部分就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
5950.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
5978.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
我上個禮拜才招所有的農漁會的那個各農漁會來討論他們最憂心的就是新進的漁工不會捕魚啦那我們農業部願意針對這個新進的漁工做訓練的部分做一些協助那這樣子的話讓他在他的船上在捕魚的時候能夠更有效率我覺得是他們需要的我們會來處理所以後續所有東西最後三年還是要立法 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
5979.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
5999.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
還是要去立法的部分所以在這三年之間我們會盡可能去釐清哪一些是雇主該付哪一些是移工該付的部分我想我們會把它更更清楚的釐清那個要釐清這個部分要到三年還是我們在短期一個月內可以把這個部分把它做適度的一個釐清哪些部分其實是 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6000.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6021.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
雇主要付的那些部分是移工因為他有一些受到一些服務必須要付費的部分這個部分可不可以很清楚地有一個list清楚地把它定義出來我上禮拜在跟那個漁會溝通的時候因為每一個地區每一個漁會他所了解的仲介的收費標準都不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6022.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6040.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
所以我現在就是請漁業署針對各地區的漁會它的招募的這些仲介費的相關的明細去做一個蒐集以後去做分類然後再看看說哪個差異所以它需要一點時間但是絕對不是三年後再做我們現在已經在做大概多久的時候可以給我一個很完整的 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6041.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6064.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
我想是不是可以容許我們至少三個月因為我們內部要收完以後做分類做整理三個月給本席一個很清楚的一個這樣的一個成本的一個對他中間收取的費用的項目跟他服務的項目還有甚至於雇主本來就有在付的像吃飯睡覺其實現在說不要錢但是這個就是雇主的成本啊理解那個我在想說我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6067.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6084.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
絕對會支持就是移工的一個人權這沒有問題可是我們也不希望就是因為這樣的一個新的一個政策跟制度的時候導致台灣的漁業受到很大的一個影響因為台灣現在漁業的倫理幾乎都是用移工來補足的 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6085.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6110.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
所以這個部分我們希望說能夠去做一個比較清楚的分析包括說是不是對遠洋的漁業的影響跟對於近海漁業的影響或沿近海的狀態或對小型漁船的影響這個部分所以我在最後再補助再問一個問題就是說農業部會不會考慮對於小型漁船這邊的部分如果政策改變之後可能可以給他們一個適度的補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6111.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6130.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
不過我想這就是我們所謂的措施但是我比較不喜歡用補助這個次元因為相對的整個移工的部分從養殖漁業延進來漁業到遠洋漁業還有不同的樣態的部分所以我要先去了解他們現在仲介所收的還有他們遇到的一些困難政府是可以支持的部分就正如委員所說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6131.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6147.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
我們在重視漁業人權的前提之下我更要重視我們台灣漁業的發展這是我們一定要努力的那我們希望能夠很具體看到就是農業部這邊怎麼來支持我們的漁業這個部分那我最後我丟一個問題出來就是因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6149.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6164.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
我們在整個海洋漁業的一個產業制措施當中的時候也有特別一個部分就是對於那個漁業用油的一個補貼的一個部分那漁業用油補貼的時候因為最近有一個朋友的船是被發現他們去 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6166.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6194.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
就是轉賣我們這個補貼的一個用油那針對這個部分的時候我們農業部這邊有沒有一些更精準的措施可以來避免我們本來是政府的一個好意結果被誤用去做一個倒賣或者是一個漁業用油補貼這樣的一個機制可不可以請部長做個簡單的我想非常簡單的講我覺得像這類的這種不法的行為雖然是少數但是絕對 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6195.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6223.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
要有一個機制去控制那現在我們基本上在漁業用我們用AIS去確認它的軌跡那不是在那邊在某個地點一直在那邊繞那表示說它那邊它沒有在從事捕魚的行為的時候我們回來會嚴加的去做這樣子的一個集合的動作所以我也要求漁業署這邊針對美燒船在加油的時候之前的軌跡的本身的一個所謂的去確認的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6224.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6249.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
我希望用導入AI的方式可以去做一個確認它有真正的在某個時間去做某個漁場的捕撈它一定要用軌跡去確認的部分理解那因為這個部分你講說用AI進來做這樣的一個部分我在想說因為我們之前的一個辦法是從96年開始到現在已經很久都沒有改變那我們希望有新的一個機制然後去做一個比較好的一個集合的一個狀態 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6250.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6265.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
不要讓政府的一個美意變成不肖的人士他們去倒賣油品這樣的一個狀態那另外就對於主腹肌這個馬力這個部分的一個標準的時候我們也希望對於腹肌的這個部分能夠有更有效的一個掌控 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6266.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6280.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
對 這個也是另外一個重點剛才委員非常關心這個祖父基本身它的一個影響會牽涉到後續他們在加油的時候的一個數量的部分這個部分我想我們之前應該跟漁業組討論的時候也希望他們針對這個部分做精進 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6281.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6296.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
OK 好那希望正在這部分的時候我們能夠進一步提出一個更有效的一個做法不要讓這樣子的一個政府的好意我們用公帑去支援這樣子的一個漁業動力的一個補貼的時候結果後來被誤用了我覺得這不是很好的狀態 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6297.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6316.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
特別是我們針對漁業用漁物補貼的相當多包括免營業稅、貨物稅還有14%的補貼然後這次加差還hold得住那跟國外的漁物真的差價很大啦我們不希望這種事情再發生OK好那請這部分繼續加油謝謝好謝謝鄭振銓委員接下來我們有請陳廷飛委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6326.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6331.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
謝謝昭偉 我們是不是請部長好 有請部長部長因為現在氣候變遷非常嚴重那其實我們現在是必須強化整個土石流的防治這是我們非常重要的而且再加上我們整個坡地的韌性 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6354.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6370.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
這個現在也是我們在做水土保持非常重要的一個環節那我們到底要怎麼提升我們在整個農業山坡甚至所有土石流的一個韌性化的狀態呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6371.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6391.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
不過我想整個一個系統性治水椅其實它不能只看山坡地它應該從上游的集水區的部分就是盡量讓我們這些土石不要崩落在上游的溪流然後在中游的這部分要怎麼樣讓它不要崩落在它上游的這個溪流 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6391.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6417.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
沒有 我想除了例行的監測以外我們在本身的西湖本身會有不同階段會有一些類似藍沙壩的部分或者是用MBS為主的方式去做的剝砍西湖的剝砍的方式去防治第三個部分就是這些變異點我們針對可能的大規模崩塌跟不安令屠殺的區域我們都會標示那我想請教一下你們現在的監測點 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6419.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6434.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
都完整的布點了嗎我想我們針對大規模幫他我如果沒有記錯的話9948處的這些便衣點然後我們針對風險最高下面有所謂的保全對象的大概有70應該是78還是98大概100100左右98個左右這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6440.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6464.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
都已經有布點了布點了那你們的監測系統有透過整個科技去做什麼樣的一個調整嗎有我們現在目前特別是針對AI的部分也做了一些因為布點下去以後你要隨時看它的變動化量化過去都是用人記錄以後再去比對現在都用AI的方式後台連線以後去做這樣的處理全部都連線嗎我們還是有部分的 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6467.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6489.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
9000多點是我們現在知道我們現在是90幾點下面有高風險區有保全對象的我們就會做所以你現在98個有保全對象的你們有用AI去做監測所以只有在保全對象的部分那其他上游所發生的這些監測點目前還沒有拉到我們的科技系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6490.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6506.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
有 我們現在就是98處這個部分是從上游的變動點他隨時得到一些警訊然後這些警訊如果超過異常的時候他就會通知下面的保全那保全對象本身的一個那個逃避防災的演練我們也持續的在協助對啊 那請問這個演練什麼時候進行為什麼關我們台南我們並沒有感受到我們有做這相關的演練我想請那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6520.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6541.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
報告委員 像我們都有土石流專員的訓練像今天在農業部就有土石流專員的授證那我們也分配各縣市政府都有做防災的演訓你們都會用哪一個時間在演訓就是在這段期間 訓期來之前一直到五月間都還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6542.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6570.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
好 那你們有固定的時間 比如說我希望的是說在我們訓練前 我們有一個比較大規模而且是比較慎重的而不是說今天只是我叫你來 然後上個課 演練一下不是這樣 而是我們要慎重其事把它當成是一個我們必須要嚴正面對的一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6571.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6592.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
根文報告我們除了兵退伍以外也有實際的演練那另外由我們中央應變中心這樣幫他編也有一個全國性的演訓工作那有說是全國嗎 對但是各縣市怎麼去配合因為分別一年大概有分配兩個縣市就這樣的實際的演練所以是逐年來輪動的 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6593.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6621.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
所以是你們用每年兩個縣市去配合做這樣的一個演練工作並沒有每年每個縣市都這麼做實際的大型的操演沒有每個縣市每年各縣市都有相關的兵推跟實際的演練那如果說該縣市比如說台南市他希望每年都做 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6622.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6644.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
未來每年都做 那我們農業部可以幫忙嗎?柯委員辦我們就敬畏來支持啦喔 要拜託 因為其實我認為啦齁我們現在大家都好像覺得 啊 沒這麼剛好啦會發生在我家啦可是常常就是那個給最沒有準備的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6645.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6662.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
我想大家都不會認為說丹納斯在去年會對台南造成那麼大的影響絕對沒有想到可是它真的就發生了而且一發生大家束手無策因為從來沒碰過太久太久沒碰過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6663.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6677.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
所以我覺得我們必須嚴正以待對於每一個可能造成的風災雨災事前演練然後把每一個人該做的都定位 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6678.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6706.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
也就是說事情發生之後好我們的土石流的演練員你該怎麼做還有我們村里長該怎麼做還有我們各區的區公所該怎麼做然後他可以取得哪一個資料像剛剛部長說我們有做啊我們從最上游的那個土石易崩區我們從源頭就有在做管控了 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6706.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6728.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
可是這個管控 誰知道這個資訊然後當那傳輸下來 萬一沒有辦法達到所謂的這些緊急的防備 該怎麼辦但我們就希望在緊急的時候 這些訊息都可以通都不會遭傷 最好是這樣 但是萬一呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6731.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6743.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
我覺得我們在做很多的所謂演練就是說在最完整的時候最達到我們原來計畫當中的是什麼狀況萬一在這當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6748.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6765.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
有一個環節漏死掉了它又會變成什麼樣子我們要做什麼樣人力的支援去補足到不會有意外發生我覺得這是政府要給人民這樣的一個期待而且六年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6766.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6789.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
我非常謝謝委員的建議跟提醒喔那基本上我剛才說有針對下游的保全對象本身所在的地方政府都有所謂的疏散的避難的一個相關的一個計畫然後針對保全對象的清澈更新也非常重要因為有人會進來會出去那您剛才所提到的就是說我們現在是 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6790.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6809.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
用縣市去輪然後大家來觀摩那是不是每一個縣市都能夠去做這樣的事情我覺得我們是支持的部長我可以請求我們未來其實台南市我們要做到防災防汛的SOP我們每年都要做 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6810.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6839.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
所以我們希望在台南 因為我們的山區也很大我們山區很大 您清楚的從藥税 藥水 藥水 車子一直到東山 北河 這裡整個都是那我希望說未來我們這整個連線都能夠去做山區的一個防汛準備土石流等等 任何一個防汛的準備然後我們會再做一個海線的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6840.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6863.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
所以我覺得這樣子才能完完整整的讓人民可以警惕我非常同意 但是相對的這個部分我們會跟地方政府一起來合作因為也絕對不可能說中央自己下去把你這次地方做所以我想中央政府有這樣的想法我一定支持我們希望先跟部長說或許明年我不在這裡了 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6865.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6890.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
我也不在這裡或許明年我不在這裡但我已經拜託你們都會在我們所提的就是這樣的一個方向我們一定每年都要做這樣的一個演練這是我開的支票在防汛期之前就要去做的在防汛之前就要開讓每一個人都就定位知道萬一發生這種不幸的土石流的狀態我們該怎麼去防備 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6893.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
6920.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
好這是我所開出來的支票也拜託未來我們農業部要配合會我們一定會支持謝謝好謝謝陳廷輝委員不過也謝謝部長我稍微comment一下那個整個這個土石流的監控你從上游中學校這邊這所有的感測器網路通訊電源的供應然後你們常常都講AI |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
6922.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
6950.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
我就要問你們AI的模型是哪一個判讀的標準有多少數據去做追蹤這些都是很嚴謹的一個科學跟工程第二個我去看了馬帕安西的這個防災演練這不是只有農業部的事啊當然內政部交通部等等所以你要做這些整個大型的疏散絕對不是只有你農業部能夠做 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
6951.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
6972.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
所以這個有時候也要在院會頭跟公共工程我們會這個曾經的政委督導這個要確實啊不然你這個每一個縣市都會有這個問題啦不只我們這個未來這個我們台南市有這個問題花蓮就有這個問題都還沒解所以我覺得這是很嚴重好 接下來的話呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
6974.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
6981.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
等一下待會張家俊委員質詢完畢之後休息8分鐘接下來我們有請楊瓊英委員質詢感謝主席楊瓊英發言請部長請陳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7000.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7023.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
我們一直在討論怎麼樣協助農民那同時天然災害的部分因為地球暖化的問題所以衍生有很多的相關所以本集跟我們的委員也共同提出要怎麼樣去調整因為我們目前所天然災害達成的那補助的可能只有它的成本一成不到兩成所以對農民來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7026.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7045.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
對最農民來講是很難過的一件事情尤其現在因為物價指數一直調高人力這個物力相關的配套設備等都不斷在提高所以我們就提了這個第60條的一個修正我希望你能夠支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7046.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7069.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
那但是我今天在你們的回覆的資料裡頭我非常的不滿意你們全部都認為通通都不需要都不需要調整那本席要請問喔上一次本席也跟你討論因為地球暖化病蟲害的問題還有野生動物的問題去導致這一些都沒有納入你在天然災害的項目之內上次你回答本席 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7071.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7080.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
說你們要一個月內去討論將這些的因子是不是加入要一個月內去討論對不對你是不是答我本行如此那現在呢有沒有在討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7082.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7101.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
有有在討論那這個資料誰寫的我沒有這個要怎麼打屁股我沒有你竟然直接白嘴黑字說通通都不要你今天當部長你在現場欸答應一個月內要討論報告委員我非常尊重你我們可以我還沒有回答你不要生氣齁那你怎麼可以寫這個文字出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7102.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7129.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
你們寫的是誰 我要查出寫的是誰這麼不尊重你們的部長啊部長在現場待一個月內去討論你竟然白紙寫A字你們的部署打臉部長啊我想我先回答一下第一個部分我們在法案裡面我承諾委員說病蟲害本身如果它的一個發生已經超乎農民的 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7130.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7156.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
可以控的情況之下應該給予適當的救助我們在設計這個那這個部分是在天然災害救助辦法裡面就可以處理的不需要在母法這邊去做處理那在母法不能處理的原因是因為災防法裡面對於天然災害的定義已經有了如果它那邊的定義跟我們農發條例的定義不一樣的話就會有法律的進合的部分所以第一個我們有做第二個就是說我們建議是不放在母法 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7158.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7185.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
法律定競合因為我們看到目前你們所補助即使現在兩成多農民還是很辛苦所以我們也是希望能夠讓農民有一個尊重至少你答應一個月內要怎麼樣去討論那你不能完全直接白紙寫黑字那等於是部署打臉你你說不放在母法那你有沒有告訴我們要怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7186.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7201.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
對不對 你完全沒有所以本席還是建議你我們實質討論 因為我是很尊重你我更尊重你 真的對 那互相尊重就不要讓你的部署打臉你白紙寫A字 對不對你讓主席台也都傻眼了我們來 不管什麼個性我們共同的目標要怎麼照顧農民比較重要所以你一個月後必須要答覆本席不要白紙寫A字亂亂寫來 接下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7214.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7224.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
我們要討論5月6號的時候美國貿易代表署在2026年這個貿易障礙報告當中台灣的章節他清楚地寫出了 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7226.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7245.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
這個臺灣的農藥最大殘留容許量審查表它表示關切那要求臺灣在尚未訂定標準的時候直接接受美國的標準直接要接受美國的標準那所以你衛福部呢1月9號預告了 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7246.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7257.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
預告了農藥產有容許的這個量的標準修正草案而且衛福部在4月份的時候也正式發布總計 總計 異動有38種的農藥174項的農產品的一個標準那個部長你的看法呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7265.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7287.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
第一個我想委員是非常明理的我們在所有的過往在農藥的這些產流標準我們不斷的跟食藥署在那邊討論針對國內的部分你同意食藥署如此嗎就直接對齊美國的標準是不是你有沒有你的立場本期要問的是你農業部有沒有你的立場我絕對有我的立場你的立場是什麼我這個立場是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7291.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7306.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
這些媒體所報導的是激進式謠言因為所有的174項跟美國的對等關係是一點關係都沒有的跟美國的對等關係是沒有的這是美國的標準還是你衛福部制定的標準您看一看174項的農業的標準農業部長請問 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7314.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7321.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
部長這174項38種農藥那你說等一下請教是不是對齊美國的標準我要跟委員報告喔請回答本席的提問那你就應該去問食藥署 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7330.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7352.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
因為農藥的標準是食藥署定的你今天是農業部長耶我關切的是這些農藥的標準在國內的使用的情況我知道的144項的農藥的部分不是全部都是您說的對齊美國的標準因為它跟ART沒有關係你現在告訴我們的是說它公佈的38種農藥它鬆綁的這個標準不是對齊美國 是嗎你這樣答覆本席嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7360.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7372.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
我可以這麼講喔對國內的部分是根據我們農藥所相關的這些農藥的殘留的研究以後提供給食藥署做建議所以你同意你同意雙綁這跟雙綁沒有關係這是跟農藥的標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7376.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7394.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
為什麼要改?什麼關係?這跟我們每一年都有新的農藥、舊的農藥退場所以很多農藥它是非常嚴謹的標準去檢測的它跟任何國家的簽署都完全沒有關係這是部長你說的喔!他說沒有對齊美國喔!他的預告沒有對齊美國喔!沒有對齊,是根據我們跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7398.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7423.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
農業部跟食藥署針對相關的農藥的標準有相關的毒性的測試的結果去訂定的不是說誰說了算好一句不是誰說了算是要以國人的健康風險為最重要現在你告訴我們答案四月份他的預告是沒有對齊美國的標準的你告訴我們的第二個我具體要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7424.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7444.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
因為你是農業部長我們都一起在守護我們的農民我們的農產品因為食安是零農人的台灣的農產世界級棒是因為我們有安全有低殘留這是我們非常重大的特色也是我們台灣最信任最寶貴的 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7446.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7470.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
這個不容許去打破這個信任而且呢我們知道如果衝擊到本土的農產品跟市場的一個信任那等於食安的標準又鬆動農民競爭力同步的下滑這雙重的風險是在於你農業部長必須要把關的我另外跟委員我跟委員報告昨天食藥署 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7472.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7489.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
昨天食藥署在開這個是外面因為有人謠傳這個連我們的合作社長都起來抗議因為你隨便去說什麼農藥放寬這個東西沒有所謂的農藥放寬它是根據每一個作物品項的農藥的殘留量去做定標你這麼回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7491.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7516.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
我要告訴你 我們當部長您當部長 我要要求的也就是我們的安全低產流是台灣農產最珍貴的所以因此食安的標準我們不容許同時農民的競爭力不能下滑這是站在你農業部長我具體要求的那我最後一個問題請教 ART 的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7517.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7531.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
美國的花生零關稅上次你告訴我說要轉做什麼甘薯啊你說這個是媒體亂換話我沒有講過沒有還對很好我們透過質詢就是要讓社會大眾不緊張接下來寬皮肝的這個關稅要從35%降到10%是不是屬實啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7539.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7550.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
寬皮竿每年進口的量只有我們總消費量我們寬皮竿每年大概10萬噸然後相對的進口量只有大概1000多噸左右而已是占不到1%數量不管我們要怎麼樣協助以台中地區 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7557.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7560.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
部長你知道我們台中地區我了解我們的木骨乾、我們的湯乾、我們的甘蜜、柑橘類我們占了四千公頃耶我們占了全國的三分之一我要跟委員報告喔看來我們從美國進口比我們台灣的柑橘還要貴 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7574.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7601.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
所以本來就要進口的而且它進口的時間點是剛好是我們的另外一個選項我打請鄭惠本席的提問你說價格比較貴但是我們在講關稅的問題35%降為10%它的單價會比原來的還要便宜所以因此雖然我們的柑橘比台灣貴啊對對你不能這樣子講嘛你現在它比以前的便宜嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7602.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7620.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
他比以前的便宜嘛35%降為10%但是還是比台灣貴啊但是比台灣貴你不能這樣邏輯去計算嘛沒有台灣有你要怎麼樣保障我們的柑橘啊你一定相信我們台灣的寬皮柑有它的台灣的風味你一定支持台灣產品嘛你為什麼要去care那個美國進口的 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7621.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7628.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
哇 你當農業部長問我這一句話我真的有傻眼當然是我們要好好的支持我們的台灣農產本席跟你討論的是關稅從35%降回18%會不會有什麼衝擊呢不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7639.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7650.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
我沒有看過這樣子的行政所長他只有占不到1%的產量然後價格也比台灣貴你有這個guess說不會我也要請你嚴肅的去控管保障我們的農民我一定保障我我也來自台中本席要告訴你一句話 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7663.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7673.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
你不要用數量多少去評論因為我們用客觀的數據去了解我們不能說我不能按照一個關稅降低一個害怕台灣的農業沒有那麼脆弱的台灣的農業是有韌性的 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7678.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7697.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
台灣的農業沒有那麼脆弱有耐性這是台灣農民最大的一個光榮但是因為這個光榮你要保證他的光榮而不是讓他成為貿易的受害者這不是貿易的受害者我們這樣的一個情況之下是讓消費者在不同的季節有更多的選擇 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7698.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7722.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
他的進口量不高他的價格比台灣貴不要答非所問我們是針對關稅35%降為18%的這個部分對不對所以你要好好的去管控怎麼樣保障台灣農民的一個光榮這才是最重要我們會做更好的市場區隔你要去做好風險的一個管控這是本席跟你討論的重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7725.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7743.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
好 謝謝我們楊瓊委員等一下喔 我最後再補農業部一刀啊上次我叫你們去看Art的書今晚談判談出來的東西你們一定要去跟我說好好看有沒有去看 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7745.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7768.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
我補你一刀好了ART3.3.59自動承認農藥MRL我方略無標準,須直接接受美方數據獨立主權,招架空好啦,我也不跟你弄了,隨便接下來我們請張家俊委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7772.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7799.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
主席我想請部長部長冷靜啊冷靜冷靜如果我們可以很專業的客觀的去討論一個問題我想都不用這樣子沒錯所以呢上次跟您討論那個美國花生進口有標示不清及洗產地的問題您說美國花生在台灣製成花生醬等加工品 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7799.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7817.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
是實質轉型可以標MIT那我想請問部長您支不支持把花生原產地標示清楚如果您支持的話農業部願不願意提出相應的修法提案呢我想上次在委員會質詢的時候是根據現在的一個規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7817.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7836.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
那針對台灣的花生我相信你來自雲林業知道台灣的花生的特色所以我一直強調我們一定要想辦法讓台灣的花生做一個品牌的區隔我甚至於已經開始在設計台灣花生雲林產製台灣花生的這些Logo那讓我們真正的台灣的花生能夠讓消費者知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
7836.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
7850.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
所以標示清楚這一點您也提及我們一定會做市場的區隔用我們自己台灣發生的這些標示來處理我的意思是說那我們法律的部分修法提案你們也會有版本嗎法律的部分不是我們農業部 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
7852.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
7875.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
那本席會提出那也希望農業部要支持就是說我們一定要依法有據讓我們的花生農有保障那也呼應我們那個農業部在做的我們一定會讓我們台灣花生做很好的讓消費者一看就知道這是台灣花生因為我們影響的你如果沒有依法有據的話他業者他愛怎麼標怎麼標啊不是只有你一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
7876.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
7902.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
業者也不能說愛怎麼標就怎麼標這個有一定的規範所以我們就是要修改它的法律在地面可以解釋的時候我一定會支持我們也希望說不只支持花生業者因為它是連帶的它有花生農 它有脫殼業者 加工業者它是一條龍影響上千人上萬人的產業鏈所以我還是希望說部長可以支持產地標示明確這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
7904.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
7922.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
另外有一個嚴重的問題就是面臨關稅衝擊我們上次有討論過就是我們台灣的鰻魚跟台灣鯛雲林也是重要的產地價格現在其實是起起伏伏我想要知道說不曉得農業部有沒有相關的救市措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
7923.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
7947.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
我第一個部分 鰻魚的部分我大概兩個禮拜前才跟鰻魚相關的業者座談過那一個非常重要的關鍵就是日本現在在拉我們台灣的鰻魚是拉的比較少 是它拉的對岸的是比較多 是但是日本同時也希望我們的頭旗鰻苗能夠可以外銷 是我們有沒有一個交換的條件 我特別講就是說如果日本願意 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
7948.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
7966.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
將我們的活慢能夠輸入到日本多一點的時候我們就可以考慮我們在慢的部分做適當的頭期慢可以適當的那這個大概討論要多久才會有結果呢第一個現在我們已經透過相關的駐美代表然後業者他們也了解了 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
7967.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
7970.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
所以他們現在也發現到說現在的外銷他們開始有在動有比以往還動的部分然後另外我們針對蔓梅爾也有相關的外銷獎勵去支持他們有更多的產品去外銷那部長我想要也特別請求部長幫忙這些業者 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
7984.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8012.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
就是針對鰻魚 台灣鯛的這些養殖業者是不是能夠啟動一個救助機制提供低利或者是無息貸款紓困的措施來幫助這些漁民度過難關因為他們現在飼料錢一直加然後賣其實真的是賣沒什麼的走啦所以這個真的是卡住了所以部長會不會考慮可以啟動這個低利貸款或無息貸款我想基本上就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8013.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8035.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
一般的農業的貸款其實已經是非常低利 農民就可以貸款我們現在有啟動相關的加工跟凍儲的這些機制能夠將產地的一些蔓苗先做如果可以再加上這個 因為這個其實花不了多少錢但是讓他們心中有一個比較安心的感覺不一定沒可能大家都可以吃的這個我想我會請我們農金署這邊來評估好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8036.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8063.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
如果能夠支持農民的相關的措施我們盡量會做支持漁民這些相關措施麻煩因為真的他們現在壓力非常的大那另外我想要請教部長的是其實農業有一股生力軍就是退役的親農那退役跟親農這兩個詞放在一起好像很矛盾但是其實一點也不因為有一些職業軍人他們是很年輕就決定換跑道 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8064.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8076.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
有的30幾甚至20幾就選擇退伍那他們退伍之後領到的也不是終身月奉喔是一筆金額非常少可能就是一次性的這個退伍金但是呢因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8079.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8106.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
因為這個退伍金我們的這個農業部規定就是說把它當作是社會保險的老年給付所以20幾歲30幾歲領的這筆安家費就等於是好像是他60歲65歲以後的養老金那這個比例跟原則邏輯我想是說不通的我是不是可以請這個部長說明一下說有沒有什麼機會可以為這一個退役的青農來解套呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8106.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8130.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
我想第一個我們在農業的退休儲金的部分已經開放了已經開放這些退役的他領原來的勞保的部分他可以可以從事農業然後同時可以來參加我們的以前我們的退休儲金只能農保現在我們已經開放了讓他參加了所以他可以參加退休儲金的時候他又可以重新累積他的退休的縫 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8131.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8156.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
本席所知我們農保是假設他繳費25年他就可以開始領老農年金嘛對不對是那所以假設他其實15年吧老農金是15年15年好那15年假設他今年才30歲他如果願意轉農保你為什麼不開一條路讓他轉農保呢他可以轉農保啊可以轉農保嗎怎麼現在跟我說不行耶我會請 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8157.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8175.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
你說跟委員報告那個退伍的親農他從事農會工作他可以加農保我知道他加農保之後他15年後還可以領老農津貼嗎那他現在老農津貼是不能領因為他涉及到社會保險涉及到這個就是我們要修改的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8175.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8202.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
因為他領了一筆二十萬因為他領了一筆五十萬他就永遠沒有辦法領老農津貼這是不合理的也不公平那等於是我們農業部一直在想說希望說讓這個青年返鄉啊然後鼓勵鼓勵年輕人就是回來其實你們這樣子的只差一步你就是把他往外推你讓他沒有一個安心的就是退休制度所以我也很希望部長既然今天你知道這個關鍵點關節點 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8205.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8225.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
他可能二三十歲他就已經退役了他要加入他要當親農他可以加入農保但是他不能領老農年金這是一個不合理的狀況所以我希望部長是不是真的可以健康因為我也看到這個問題所以我先解開了農民退休儲金讓他們可以來參加農民退休儲金那 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8226.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8252.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
要讓他以後老農年金可以領的話就簽得到全國的八大社福基金的老年人給付的這些要件因為他之前已經領過了那你覺得我們要怎麼修改呢這個決定不是說我們改了這個就可以因為他簽得到八大社福基金我們大家一起來討論大家一起來討論因為這是一個不合理的狀態有沒有因為您說不合理可是對於不是參加這種曾經是軍人的他也不合理啊因為這些軍人多領了一些錢嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8253.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8279.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
所以他可能領了20萬 他可能領了30萬然後他一輩子都不能領老農民金你覺得這個比例原則呢他也是一個不公平所以我想怎麼樣做橫平性我們可以再來思考那希望農業部為了保留這一群珍貴的青農返鄉青年可以做一些作為我想我們一定鼓勵我們的青農能夠進來包括用什麼誘因讓他進來我都願意去想好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8283.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8288.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
好 謝謝張耀瑞 謝謝部長好 那接下來的話我們休息8分鐘 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8767.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8792.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8822.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8822.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
谢谢大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8917.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8918.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
好,現在我們繼續開會,有請賴瑞榮委員質詢謝謝召委,請陳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8934.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8963.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
部長 去年風災跟雨災其實造成了高雄的原鄉包括茂林桃園跟納馬巷很多的一些災情那當然也謝謝農業部跟各部會全力的協助後面的一些工作但現在因為也慢慢進入到汛期階段那整個所有的一些包括復建的工作可能要請農業部要加速來進行要協助區公所裡面加速來進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8963.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8988.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
所以我想我們會持續的去關注特別在汛期的時候在之前去年受害的這些區位是不是能夠如期的完成這我們一直在關注能提前的要提前完成那如果還有可能要跨過汛期那可能要盡量減損它可能造成的一些影響對 二次的災害我想我們會盡量因為它可能還在進行當中但是有造成的災害這個可能請農必要我還是要請部長這邊要專人專案的方式去協助他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8988.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9005.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
有我們已經在5月20號的時候就已經有要安排5月25會安排在整個這個去年受到災害的這些區域的工程我們會逐一的去檢視所以5月25會來安排的對好那另外因為經費的部分當時的這三個園鄉有61件5.6億也謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9011.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9032.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
5.66億也謝謝整個支持了但是這個部分很多在執行面上面我看了一下有很多幾乎都還在設計跟整個規劃當中這個可能要請農業部還是要跟區公所這邊協助特別區公所人力上也非常有限那也要怎麼協助他們能夠加快這些設計發包跟整個施工的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9032.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9052.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
也謝謝委員的關心事實上我們也發現說因為地方政府的人力的問題特別在相關的人力的問題那我們在思考就是我們中央的那個農村水保署的部分是不是有一些輔導團隊能夠協助他們更快的能夠提出這個規劃的一個設計的方案用這樣的方式中央跟地方合作的時候才能夠加速 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9052.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9072.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
這個也要請中央介入協助因為要辦就單就一個區公所裡面幾個人力而已他要承辦這麼多的案件的話絕對那個時間會是多餘這個我們也了解所以我說我們中央農政水保署會有一個輔導團會下去去協助所以525那一次會有一起處理的事情嗎那也有專案的團隊進行協助的三個原鄉的區公所 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9073.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9097.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
好 謝謝那再來我請教一下其實網文網啦先講一下騰芝好了騰芝也是一樣在去年的時候也是說這個颱風跟豪雨的影響它整個休園了那這個什麼時候可以修復完成什麼時候可以來復原這個預計是年底會完工然後4月會開園對 明年4月會開園預定是到今年要 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9098.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9114.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
要今年要開園嗎但是這個看來是要延期了嗎對看起來是這樣因為那個施工的進度好像不如預期那我們一定是希望說在今年年底一定把它完成這個還是要請部長盯緊這個速度了那所以現在可能要延到明年來開園 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9115.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9140.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
我們現在遇到一個問題就是從去年的這麼多颱風以來有很多工程在進行所以那個工程的量能在做的時候可能往往就會有很多工程去delay這個部分我想我會專案請我們的那個林保署這邊去特別去加強工程不要掉來掉去這邊做兩天然後那邊做兩天然後每個工期都變延長我想我們看有沒有什麼樣的機制來協助他們這要盯緊因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9141.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9154.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
去年確實多數都在中南部這邊那因為也造成那因為當時也很多的同時間也都在發報都在執行當中那確實這段時間比較缺工的狀況我覺得這一塊可能要請農業部這邊還是要專案來協助南部這一塊要不然這整個就像剛剛部長講的這個整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9158.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9176.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
工程延期甚至於很多造成整個開園的時程往後延因為騰芝算是高雄南台灣一個很重要的一個區域希望能夠盡快的開園讓市民有一個很好的一個休憩的空間所以現在延到明年4月是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9177.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9206.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
四月開圓年底會把它全部完工然後完工以後四月可不可以再更提前我想我會再請林保署那就盡量提前好不好如果四月能完工的話那能夠在明年的過年期間或更之前讓大家能夠我覺得這對促進很多外地來到當地去的話也都很有幫助啦除了道路以外啦道路以外其他的部分可以先準備我們就先來準備希望大家把更多人潮帶進去裡面也能夠帶動東高雄的一些發展不管是觀光休閒 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9206.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9226.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
風險等活動 多一個點 總是多一個大家多一個去處 帶動地方的一些商機我有注意到這個 我們知道部長網文網的部分在高雄出沒而且有專家有示警不排除已經繁殖在19次了 這個部長有沒有關注到這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9228.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9257.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
我想這個網文網的部分這個我想要先跟委員說明之前我們就想要列入就是禁止輸入的這些結果很多人覺得說我想要自己養有什麼不可以那這個就實際發生了當你不想養的時候你一氣質就會造成很大的困擾特別是網文網本身它的成長非常快速又非常巨大人家看了就會害怕了所以我們在現在這個我想我們會啟動一些比較專案的方式來協助做這樣的清除 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9258.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9284.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
我可能要請部裡面也要用專案的方式不要讓他等到群聚就像那個綠葉溪一樣當他形成了一個那就不好處理那現在大家已經關注到這個議題的時候我也希望農業部用專案的方式我們現在已經用專案方式想要來處理我們不要再發生像綠葉溪那樣子一開始有點有點就是不是那麼那麼積極的去移除的時候就會造成後面不可收拾的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9284.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9309.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
最重要是這個網紅榜它又巨大啦而且它這麼大的時候同時它又有一些危險性這個它會產啦這些不管是動物或是人類都會有一定的壓迫所以我們希望這個部分還是要盡快地去做處理不要讓它蔓延開來對 我們一定會積極地處理所以有專案的方式有專案的方式來做處理好 那專案的資料是不是你再給我一份好 我們再把我們的遺書專案遺書的方法跟方式再提供你 對好好 謝謝部長好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9315.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9329.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
好 謝謝委員 謝謝部長接下來我們有請謝依鳳委員質詢好 謝謝莊委 我想要請陳部長請陳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9337.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9365.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
喂好 陳副長早安我第二條應該沒問題吧我說我的水保法的第二條應該沒問題沒問題啊 對不對其實我也是希望說農業就是說農業部提升以後我覺得應該要在水土保持上面負擔更重要的責任尤其現在是極端氣候那我想請教一下就是農業部在水保法三條他說維持按次 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9366.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9390.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
那不是按日喔那在實際執法當中有很多的這個露營區喔那被罰之後就是還是繼續的營運喔那你如果不按日的話你按次那你怎麼樣處理這個解決這個問題我要跟委員解釋一下喔按次一定要加上一個一定期限那個期限可以縮短一點限期改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9391.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9410.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
那如果按日的話變成說每個地方政府一定要每按日的話你每天都要去看看完以後還要寫單字還要裁罰裁完以後要送達那又可能兩天或三天那這樣子在實務上的操作是比較困難那我們是建議說按次但是那個限期改善的時間可以縮短 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9410.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9431.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
那這樣的話也能夠達到同樣的目的喔好那我們希望說就是因為在實際的執法當中就是當然啦就是說現在的那個政府官員還是有面臨到就是很多的問題那我們解決啦那我們還是希望能夠改善這個水土保持的相關的問題好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9431.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9446.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
我想謝謝委員 我想您關心的時候就保證我們一定會更積極的去做但是在修法的過程中我們會考慮到實務的操作面可不可行如果真的是很困擾的時候我們訂那個法 等於說是沒辦法執行也不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9447.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9469.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
好那還有現在的極端氣候導致我們的病蟲害已經是常態化這個問題喔那很多農民他們希望可以就是申請病蟲害的災損你知道有時候病蟲害也會變成一個災損那這個部分有沒有一個基本的依循的方式以及未來你應該要怎麼樣規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9470.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9485.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
我想也非常謝謝委員一直關切這個病蟲害造成的一些作物的損害那一般人認知上說病蟲害是應該可以用藥質防治的那我在內部討論的時候我灌輸了一個概念就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9486.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9509.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
天然災害除了對作物影響以外也會對病蟲害整個的生育週期也會有影響當它的生育週期改變到讓農民沒有辦法及時的防治的時候就應該有適當的補貼但是這個補貼要去看喔因為它跟一般的病蟲害防治又不一樣它必須要有區域性而且要有一致性跟它的一個情況那這樣怎麼認定那個基準表 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9510.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9539.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
對 我們現在就在設計這樣的一個基準表因為它跟一般的如果零星的病種害沒有人防治有沒有那可能是個人的問題如果一個區域都變成這個普遍的現象的時候那相對的就應該可以去處理所以我們現在請同仁開始去做這樣的一個更細緻的一個規劃以後如果可以的話我們就會在天然災害救助辦法裡面去處理它就不需要在母法裡面去訂定因為母法本身的災防法本身有天然災害的定義我們怕 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9540.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9541.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
兩個法本身的天然災害 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9542.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9570.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
救助辦法裡面就可以去處理了就可以處理了可以處理這一種因為極端氣候所造成的病蟲害再損嘛對不對是那什麼時候可以出來我想這個部分我們會盡快因為我也知道訊息已經到了然後我也不希望說下一次再遇到這種比較區域性普遍性的這種病蟲害而沒辦法達到救助所以我也要求我們同仁盡可能在一個月之內能夠把它訂出來然後完了以後我們經過專家會議討論以後我們就會公告 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9573.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9598.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
好 那希望儘快好不好有一個基準的認定的表格然後讓大家可以有依循的這個方向那還有就是說現在農地有遭到非法回田土跟爐渣的事件那導致於就是說我們的農地沒有辦法耕作那這對於糧食的安全會造成非常嚴重的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9600.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9622.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
那我想說請問你就是說是不是能夠禁止就是說徵地回田土的這個條例我要跟委員報告我們現在農地大概74到81是我們確保糧食安全的一個面積的總量的部分然後我們農地的改良如果用到外面的土的話的前提是這個農地是需要改良的 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9624.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9648.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
所以它的土壤會根據每一塊地的土壤的質地不一樣而做調整而不是像外界所說的你只要符合這個農田的土壤就可以倒進來因為這樣倒進來就反而造成一些不可收拾的一些禍端所以我們在相關的實施細節裡面就訂了非常清楚農地改良一定是農地的需要這前提然後需要了以後你必須經過土資廠去做過濾選擇適當這塊土地用的這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9653.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9667.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
這些土壤的殖地才能夠進來對 可是你真的要改就是說真的要解決這個廢棄土回田的 回田農地的問題因為這個部分也跨就是說有牽涉到跨部會對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9669.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9685.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
對 就是農地是農業部嘛那廢棄物又是環境部嘛那還有一些內政部所管的營建的相關的廢土的部分嘛那這怎麼樣子做一個統籌性的 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9685.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9710.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
我跟委員報告其實這個案子我們在行政院已經有召開多次的跨部會的相關的會議那以農業部的立場本身土壤如果要用外來的土的話一定是農地改良需要你才可以做這件事情而不是說農地不改良沒有不需要你還是可以回田所以回田那個廢棄物包括土砂磚塊建築物廢棄物的話是餘地不准的這個我想我們會堅持 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9712.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9737.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
對那是不是那你覺得說如果在農發條例裡面對我們在實施細則裡面就已經很明確而且現在執行已經有實施細則裡面就有了執行細則裡面就已經很明確了所以不用再定在法對是這樣的方式那希望說能夠就是說進速做跨部會的那我們一直在做處理這幾乎每個禮拜都有在開會都有開會是不是那為什麼都沒辦法解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9737.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9760.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
沒有 這個現在大家不同部位之間在處理然後現在應該有很大的進展就是這些回天這些廢棄土的部分的佔自償有沒有 在規劃這個佔自償的部分啦而不是在農地的部分 農地的部分相對的因為我們的堅持相對的問題比較小好 好 謝謝好 謝謝委員好 謝謝謝一鋒委員 謝謝部長接下來我們有請邱志偉委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9768.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9770.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
謝謝主席 次別有請農業部陳部長好請農業部陳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9780.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9807.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
這個部長好今天討論農發條例我大概有兩項提案首先請教你這個農發條例我增令65條之一針對主管機關就疑似從事農業的職業性傷害及殖民因素防治設備及護具研發等事項要進行研究教育 輝廣及合作以維護農民健康我請教您 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9808.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9834.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
從100年到112年,農保對象十大疾病前三大是甚麼?這個你可不可以回答前三大,每人都一樣喔如果你們不能掌握代表說你們沒有這個狀況那個職業比例大概就是農藥種土跟這個種樹我的提案上面都有附表你都沒看,然後你就寫報告出來的你都沒看 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9835.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9850.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
前十大我只問你前三大而且前三大每年都一樣就代表說因為他在種農作的過程中所造成的這個疾病我確認的部分就是農藥跌倒 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9851.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9878.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
跌倒是比較多啦你去看農保對象十大疾病醫療費用統計表我都已經幫你整理好了從100100年的每年每年3.38萬點一直增加到112年的5.63萬點增加0.66好排名第一的是腎炎腎症候群就所謂的急性腎衰竭跟慢性腎臟病對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9880.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9897.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
對,那是農藥造成的第二個,杭尿病類,每人都一樣排名第二名了第三名是高血壓疾病這個署長嗎?這位是署長嗎?不是,這是我們的副處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9901.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9927.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
你農保的這個對象他們疾病醫療費用支出的狀況是用在哪些疾病你要很清楚啊這前三大你都講不出來那我要怎麼對你們期待呢對不起喔 這個很抱歉喔委員 這個我們後續會來改進好 你看看從你們報告中你們也同意本席的這個修法 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9928.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9952.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
你要有針對這些疾病去做這個因素的探討防治的工作設備有沒有相關設備跟護具的研發然後你要把進行研究之後你要去推廣要教育農民能不能把這些疾病因素把它降低來維護農民的健康嘛是好那這個部分你們同意的話如果修法通過這個是由哪一個單位來執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9954.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9968.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
我想這個部分還是在我們的輔導師裡面去處理那輔導師本身針對這個東西會跟其他的學校還有包括有一些環境跟台大跟環境醫學有關的這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9970.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9995.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
醫學會來做處理所以你要開始編列預算是你說輔導師作為執行單位然後你要編列預算你要有一個概況大概要編多少預算來執行這些工作我想分兩個部分第一個部分就是說為納入現在職業災害的部分我們怎麼樣去了解它的因果關係的部分能夠盡可能把它納進來這是一件事情第二個是輔具的部分我同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9996.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10018.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
我在質詢您的重點是說前三大包括腎臟疾病、糖尿病跟高血壓過去十幾年來都是前三大一定跟他的職業有相當的關聯性或從事的工作內容有相當的關聯性你要把它研究出來然後防範讓這個腎炎或者糖尿病或者高血壓能夠降低嘛我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10019.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10042.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
這樣子就是我可以用科技計畫的方式由專案專人去委託做相關的研究這個一定會去做的因為他做可能會因為特別是糖尿病高血壓的部分研究是前端嘛那你要應用怎麼樣去防範後面的防範教育的部分就是由副老師這邊來做一些有效的推廣你看10年之間增加0.66倍從3.38萬點到5.63萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10047.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10061.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
我希望提案的內容你們要注意看一下我提案寫了很久耶我們做了很多的研究 提供很多資料你們都沒看我拿我的提案給你 問你你也答不出來很抱歉喔 我想我們會改進這個可能工養稅再加強另外這個今天農糧署有在嗎 副署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10070.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10089.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
糧食的韌性很重要啦從產地到社區的這個韌性的供應量我希望能夠快點盡致完成我們大宗雜糧我們是依賴進口對不對是然後這個蛋白質跟油脂供應這個韌性會受到影響是因為大家都靠進口進口的 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10090.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10102.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
然後暫時的配給系統你這個最末端的沒有一個整合的一個體系就是說你如果暫時的配給系統你這個末端要怎麼樣去整合目前沒有這個問題沒有這個整合機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10105.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10134.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
市委員報告就是全市委員會任性裡面針對暫時或是比較比較高危險的時段裡面那已經有跨部會包括中經濟部的部分我們有一個聯合的一個調度的一個系統那以農業部來講我們除了米以外我們主要的糧食的一些來源我們要掌握然後包括它的供應站包括它的配銷站這個都有一個完整的系統只是這個系統現在目前並不方便對外公布 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10135.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10140.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
那我只是一個問題說針對雜糧的部分雜糧你要落實雜糧的轉作然後潛在自給率你要設計一個動源機制這部分我給你們具體的改善建議這部分可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10149.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10169.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
我覺得應該可以第二多城市的民間儲糧跟社區配送節點在執行面部分給你們一些建議對這個也很好就是說很多東西並不是用公糧的倉庫的角度來看善用現在目前私人的這些庫存的部分然後當作一個動員或需要的時候一個整理我覺得這個我想我們會來加強 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10172.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10177.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
因為時間到了 這個我身為召委要遵守這個諮詢時間 不能無邊際諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10181.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10206.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
這個其他的部分還有幾個議題我改成這個書面好 謝謝謝謝委員那請您再重視一下這個我剛剛所提的兩個問題是因為這個因為同是農作造成他疾病造成影響你們要去研究出來會 我們會來另外這個糧食擔心特別雜用的部分你們立即有一個處理的方案是謝謝好 謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10208.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10212.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
謝謝邱委員 謝謝副長接下來我們有請呂毅林委員質詢謝謝主席 請陳副長請農業部陳副長 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10233.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10254.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
委員部長不論是我們台灣的原生的野生動物或者是外來的入侵的這個物種都有危害我們農作物的這個案例讓我們農民的辛苦的耕作一夕之間就被野生動物給吃掉或者是破壞但是農民他們只有默默的接受完全沒有辦法應付這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10256.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10268.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
所有的這個侵害他們農作物的這些事情只能自認倒楣那因為我們的農業天然災害的那個救助辦法裡面就是沒有把這個野生動物這破壞農作物這個作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10271.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10294.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
天然災害的一個範疇所以讓他們沒有辦法來申請應該得到的一個補助所以本席跟多位委員都希望能夠在母法裡面將這個野生動物所造成的農損可以列為天然災害的一環讓我們農民得到應有的補償不知道我們農業部你們對這件事情的態度跟立場是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10294.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10320.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
第一個部分就是野生動物侵害到特別是在農作物跟山區的邊緣這邊的確有非常多的農作物受到影響那我們必須要去解決這第一個重點第二個部分您剛才說的就是把它在農發條例列入天然災害的定義裡面那因為現在目前天然災害的定義在災防法裡面就有很明確的定義如果農發條例定義的跟災防法定義的不一樣的時候會產生一些漢格的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10320.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10345.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
所以我們認為就是在天然災害裡面我們現在在處理食物面就是說因為喉害或其他的害它本身是有時間連續的一個時間不像說天然災害有沒有一次性就可以確認的它可能今天來採兩顆明天來採兩顆後天來採兩顆部長你講的我了解所以我們會用專案的方式去研議研議食物上怎麼處理的時候我們就會來啟動 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10346.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10366.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
好 那像是台灣的迷惑方式的話 你們就是用那個我們的用電網啊或者是這是被動式的防護 被動式的但我們現在用更積極的就是說 如果真的受損的時候那我們只要能夠確定怎麼樣去計算它的受損率跟它的 因為它不是區域性的嘛啊怎麼樣去做 只要設計出來的話 我想會跟委員一起討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10368.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10377.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
那另外就是像那個利列西他在南部的話就啃食了這個紅豆田還有這個埃及的這個聖環他會捕食了這個餘溫裡面的那個餘苗這些都是屬於強勢外來入侵的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10384.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10394.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
這種方式那我們對入侵的方式的話只有用移除或者防治或者復育的計畫在這樣子的情形之下我們就會希望說我們會有專業的團隊來做一些專業的訓練來幫助捕殺像民眾來捕捉這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10401.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10410.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
這個天然入侵的這些強制入侵的這些物種嘛那現在的話我們看到這些數量沒有減少反而增加你看從2023年到2025年從5萬8萬到26萬將近成長了三倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10416.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10432.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
5倍這樣子多 如果像這樣子數量來的算的話將近在目前台灣將近有80萬的這個這個這個歷練期這個情形那我不曉得我們移除的這些策略有哪些的有漏洞的地方 未來你們怎麼調整呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10432.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10458.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
不過我想看這個數據應該從另外的角度來看就是從前年的5萬多到8萬多到去年的26萬那表示說去年我們其實啟動了跨縣市跨區域的一個專案的一個移除的小組因為濾淚器會跑來跑去的時候所以我們更強的力道去抓去捕殺的時候包括如果一般的民眾經過授訓也可以來捕抓然後有些獎勵所以它的數量才會增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10458.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10477.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
那你們培訓跟那個加強的部分都在中南部啊現在已經往北移了包括新竹苗栗都發生這種通報所以我說我們會啟動更大的因為在去年的部分大概是從嘉義以南的部分我們有呈現現在目前從台中甚至於新竹這邊我們也會有一些相關的團隊我們也會來轉來防範訓練一些專業的人士以埃及盛環來講也經過前幾年的努力現在我想估計全台灣剩下不到50隻啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10486.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10504.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
是 部長雖然說我們都有這種方式會用移除的或者防範的但我們希望部長你這邊的話把這些數據統計起來找一些我們的農業保險公司可不可以把他們這些的災損把列入一個協助救助的這個方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10504.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10519.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
可以嗎我想我們可以請農金署來做研議但是任何的保險都必須要基本數據啦所以你們可以收集這個數據啊對我們開始去收集然後看看說什麼時候適當的情況之下農金署會來評估是不是可以用一個農業保險的角度來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10520.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10547.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
至少我們農業保險的話可以分散農民的經濟風險這點你們來具體的對 包括您剛才講的那個野生動物影響的時候我們看看可不可以用一個保險的概念去處理這個部分這個都是我們在討論的過程我們協助我們的農民好不好那接下來本席想請問一下因為我們在上個禮拜也都問過你了有關馬鈴薯的問題我們檢疫標準都一直下降都放鬆了委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10548.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10570.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
檢疫標準完全沒有變完全完全沒有變以前是發芽就全部退貨啊現在不用啊現在拋出來丟掉就好了現在更嚴謹到我們到了那個加工廠的指定地點去挑的時候是真的是竹科的挑有業的竹科挑這樣的話更能夠確保而且這些發芽的在邊境在海關的地方那你要竹科挑請問一下人力 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10571.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10583.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
補足了沒有 沒有 這個是由業者他透過輸送袋的部分在我們的監督之下 業者你看你就放心了是嗎對 我想在我們的監督之下監督怎麼監督你不是都丟給業者了嗎 不是那個整個的貨櫃封簽 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10588.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10613.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
到送到指定地點開櫃都是由我們的房檢人員去處理的那在挑的過程中不是說我們都不在那邊在挑的過程中這麼多好幾萬噸的過程中房檢人員會站到那邊看嗎會在那邊一顆一顆盯嗎會在那邊去看然後他們挑完以後合格的部分跟不合格的部分那合格的部分我們再去看完了以後我們才會發所謂的檢疫合格證他能夠進到後市場 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10613.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10621.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
我們希望我們部長這邊說到就要做到我們一定做這樣子所以我們的所有的東西我們都沒有對好接下來想請問一下部長因為我們講到馬林署的這個檢疫的標準我們回過來講一下在美國2025年對於外貿這個貿易障礙的評估報告裡面有特別提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10637.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10657.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
就是稻米有貿易障礙這稻米的貿易障礙就是說我們採取這個配額制度在每年只能夠配額到14萬4720公噸的稻米進口是零關稅超過了部分每公斤是45元請問一下我們這個配額制在這次談判中有沒有要放寬 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10657.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10677.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
我想第一個部分我要非常清楚的跟委員報告就是在J4R的討論的內容我們確定的內容裡面我們稻米是不調降任何的關稅我們做這樣子的維持完全都因為你所有的關稅都不調整的話配額也在配額也在那配額外還是馬關在14萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10679.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10686.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
144,720公噸是確定在那邊的那是WTO的市面上的是5萬多噸然後由政府的部分是9萬多噸那這個9萬4千多噸裡面美國大概有6萬4千多噸那這個部分都是照原來的機制在走 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10700.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10706.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
因為我們沒有做任何的調整就跟現在是一模一樣的所以我要在這邊承諾就是我們的配額制配額制是一定還是有配額制這個進口的供頓數是一樣是144,720供頓這是我們的底線 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10715.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10724.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
不能再放寬我想我們在R的內容都已經確認了所以我不希望有任何的外面不實的訊息說我們會調整所以今天也給部長你澄清底線在這邊所以你們要嚴守底線不能再放寬我們已經確認這個內容了所以我們也擔心就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10732.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10761.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
外界常常講說我們阿德要重談那個重談的部分那就另外一件事情了所以我們不希望要這樣子外界擔心是你們一直放寬從馬鈴薯現在又花生又橘子現在稻米是我們最重要的國產的農作物所以請你們嚴守底線好不好我想我們農業的談判第一個看整體的第二個看個別的品項我想我們還是秉持農業部會照顧農民農業的立場我們一定會真正的去照顧我們的農民好 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10761.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10788.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
部長 我們現在講進口的 那出口的部分呢那出口的部分 我覺得我們談得更好第一個部分就是我們取得的261項的豁免 就沒有對內關稅好 那部長 直接關係 就不談261項我只談一項 我們的香腸跟肉鬆 有沒有出口美國你們有沒有談你如果加工的時候就可以 如果加工本身加工的肉皮 香腸跟肉鬆應該是可以的吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10789.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10817.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
有談了嗎?有去談嗎?這個不需要談因為本身熟食的部分有經過加工一般我們會談這個東西就是有防檢疫的問題包括生鮮的豬肉的部分才需要去做這樣的一個談所以我們有加工產品本身所以不擇意思我們現在有外銷到美國嗎?這個我要確定這個我要確定但是我所認知上只要是熟食的部分是可以外銷的香腸跟肉鬆不需要檢定有沒有?應該知道美國現在是沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10818.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10833.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
那為什麼沒有 你們沒有談嘛不是 這跟談是兩件事情我們在談防檢疫的時候 那你們協助有沒有出口我們一直在協助我們國內的這些所以我請你們去談因為有廠商說他沒有出口 沒辦法你們沒有在支持 你們沒有訪問去談我們會來瞭解這個議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10836.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10856.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
所以我們要增加我們整個農作物的這個競爭力農業部出面要談好不好我們一定的一定會你們就沒有談才沒有外銷有談就有外銷啦有一些東西就是針對生鮮的部分因為房檢的部分我們會更直接的去談部長你剛剛講了是熟食就可以了嘛那熟食的部分有一部分是 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10857.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10865.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
我要看詳細的 詳細的為什麼不能出口的點心啊我們要協助我們的農產品快消不要只讓人家進來我們自己都不敢快去餵消我想我們會來處理好 謝謝好 謝謝李育銀委員謝謝部長接下來的話我們有請鄭天才委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10890.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10916.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
主席有請園民會有請園民會就請這個內政部還有農業部他們不用上來了就請這個部長來聽 不用上來就麻煩聽今天審查本席所提的山坡地保育利用條例 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10918.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10945.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
本席看了延命會的報告真的是很沉重延命會的報告裡面提到本會以原住民保留地權利回復及管理利用條例草案建議相關條文一致該條例草案並同審議要請這個處長回去跟主委詳細的說明我今天的質詢是 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10947.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10974.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
山坡地保育令條例啊這個修正之前的條文啊105年11月30號公布的條文耕作前地上前繼續經營滿5年者才可以無償取得土地所有錢當初本席以及六國動力委等提出這個修正要刪除這個5年 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10978.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11002.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
107年 延民會的報告一樣 跟現在一樣認為山坡地保育用條例37條修法刪除5年等到制定屠害法的時候再來當時的說法是這樣我們強烈的要求經過多次多次的協商協調才完成刪除 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11004.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11031.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
后来人民会把这个35年列为你们的政绩非常非常的遗憾我们看当时的公务员民国76年台湾省政府的公务员对于公有土地增编原住民保育地的处理原则原住民于77年2月1号以前使用祖先遗留迄今继续使用的土地 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11032.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11057.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
檢附相關證明文件就可以申請真化編維研助人保留地經過研民會行政院核定就可以如果當時的公務員也像現在一樣等到制定法律修正山坡地保育利用條例當時沒有土海法了是以一個處理原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11059.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11076.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
將國有的土地、公有的縣有土地、鄉有土地都可以正化變為原住民保留地是祖先留下來的土地原住民的潛意是一點一滴蒸氣的很難一步到位啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11078.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11107.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
好我們看原基法20條第二項原住民族或原住民所有使用這土地海域其回復取得處分計劃管理及利用等事項另以法律定之這個就是原住民族土地採原住民族土地及海域法的這個法律的一劑所以當初行政院曾經 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11109.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11138.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
96年11月2697年2月15104年7月7號105年2月1號行政院送到立法院的名稱就叫原住民族土地及海域法的草案那因為送來的時間比較晚都是立法院最後一年或是最後一個會期所以沒有完成蔡總統在105年8月1號向原住民族道歉的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11138.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11165.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
也向原住民主承諾我們會加快腳步將原住民主最重視的原住民主土地及海域法送立法院審議現在已經快十年了我們看行政院在司法法治委員會105年6月27號報告特別提到行政院秘書長親自報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11168.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11184.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
本院將在下會期提出原住民族土地及海域法本院就是行政院下個會期就是指106年的2月1號開始的會期106年2月1號開始的會期沒有所以園民會啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11193.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11222.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
从106年105年之后105年520之后是延明会没有把屠海法送到行政院连出延明会都没有了连出延明会的门都没有所以行政院就没有没有办法送来所以延明会是违反延济法二十条违反蔡英文总统的承诺 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11223.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11248.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
也違反了行政院對立法院的承諾回去好好跟主委報告不要再提什麼原住民保育地管理用條例你的報告裡面提到基於以下理由建請不宜徵修第一個修正條文中的部落定義上代離親怎麼會有寫這樣的用詞 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11249.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11271.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
部落定義,信之以義,還說抵觸憲法平等前移原基法第二條部落就有定義了定義還不夠清楚嗎?原民會依據這個定義已經公告了700多個部落原民會已經公告了當然不是你的業務,但是你應該問 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11278.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11296.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
中規處已經公告了700多個部落了原住民族傳統智慧創作保護條例申請人以原住民族或部落為限部落就可以當為原住民族傳統智慧創作保護的一個專屬前人文化資產保存 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11307.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11336.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
也是一樣已經這麼多了文化部你看貓公部落是文化資產的保存者好多部落啊是文化資產的理繞部落文化資產的保存者啊都有啊我們看這個山坡地百綠利用條例第37條第三項有下列情形之一者得由政府承受適有土地原住民保留地那因為原住民保留地啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11338.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11363.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
現原住民移轉對不對所以他的移轉非常的少幾乎沒有就算有非常的少也因為原住民保留地這樣的一個狀況又是做到在偏遠地區所以基本上沒有什麼市價沒有什麼市價可言啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11363.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11391.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
你要按照徵收的時候依照市價對原住民是非常非常的不利反而以前的土地徵收條例公告限值加市成以前的徵收條例公告限值加市成我們現在就是因為有這種狀況才會修法增累原住民保留地政府你要承受你要買回來還是怎麼樣的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11392.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11417.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
要以土地的公告限制加市成比照之前的以前的土地徵收條例我們把它立法明定這有什麼不對呢有什麼不好呢這是有利於原住民的而事實上確實是沒有施加可以參考啊你用公告限制對原住民是非常非常的不利啊最高法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11418.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11437.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
民事大法庭108年度台上大致第1636號裁定已經裁定借民登記是無效的所以我們要把它明定在法律裡面為什麼還要等條例呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11439.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11449.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
這個時候先有什麼關係呢?屆民登記就是無效啊你園民會就要去處理啊要訴請返還啊而不是放任放任啊不用回應 你回去我可以稍微說明一下嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11457.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11483.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
很簡單的說明一下你的說明在你的報告裡面我已經看得很清楚了我已經很詳細我簡單跟委員報告一下說第一個就是說有關於委員在37條第一項第二項針對部落作為原保地取得這樣子一個主體的部分其實我們方向上是支持的只是說我們會覺得說部落作為私有原保地取得的一個主體的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11484.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11507.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
他的一些相關的一些配套機制的部分是不是要更完整一點再來推動會不會比較好一點比如說因為部落我們有741個部落那741個部落是不是每個部落他都願意選擇以公法人作為法律地位這個部分每個都不一樣處長我沒有說要用公法人 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11508.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11537.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
工法人部落工法人之所以沒有辦法執行是延民會的帶動沒有依延基法第二條之一來訂定部落工法人的設置辦法包委員聽我講先聽我講雖然部落現在還不是工法人我剛剛舉了舉了幾個例子啊原住民族傳統智慧創作他可以成為 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11538.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11560.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
持有人啊但是那是動產所有權的取得的部分一線型的部落它是非法人團體它是沒有辦法取得所有權的法律明定它就可以我舉個例子很多東西我們原住民就要去突破相關的法律父母親啊父母親可以協議 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11562.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11585.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
以父親還是母親的姓為姓是從原住民身份法開始突破的後來的民法才寫我們的你要知道嗎後來的民法才寫我們的父母可以寫以前的民法是怎麼樣只能姓父親了我們原住民身份法給他突破 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11587.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11616.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
內政部也沒有說不可以啊今天內政部的報告也沒有說不可以啊部落也沒有說不可以啊我們就法例明定所以我們應該想辦法去突破事實上部落就是本來就有部落的土地啊為什麼要登記在國有本來就有部落的土地啊當然如果說是根穩報如果說部落有他的一個法律人權的話是更好因為趙偉已經站起來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11617.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11639.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
回去你好好的詳細的跟主委報告主委是寫法律的今天的報告真的是很難過我們要一點一滴的想辦法去爭取原住民族的權益回去跟主委報告謝謝委員好 謝謝鄭天才委員接下來請賴世寶委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11651.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11654.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
謝謝主席有請農業部的陳部長有請農業部陳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11662.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11678.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
部長你好最近大家一直在討論因為ART可能要重彈因為被美國的高等法院說是違法的還要退稅高額的退稅部分但是大家就突然發現因為USTR美國的官報總署 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11682.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11701.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
它的內涵跟我們簽的慢慢的被揭露跟我們行政院講的一個中間很大的落差發現到我們如果按照這個來的話某種程度的一個這個我們農產品進來台灣的話有食安的危機啊比如想 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11702.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11730.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
大家以前茶盆店的 前幾天是茶盆店的發一個馬鈴薯書台 這個不要講了這個花生靈官 所以這個不是我今天要談的重點我今天要談的重點是禽流感的疫區你們居然從州把它縮小到郡這裡面來講的話 就大幅的放寬了禽流感來講的話我就想到 我就想到說我們現在對於 請問你金門現在是不是禽流感疫區 是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11732.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11757.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
金門的前流管不能進來這邊他是不是疫區請問金門是不是我要跟委員說明一下我們台灣本身如果因為前流管是因為候鳥造成的只要那個場發生了以後三公里做管制所以沒有所謂的疫區或被疫區的部分金門的蛋可不可以帶進來那現在金門的蛋可以手提的有限量嗎大批的運可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11758.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11781.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
智用可以那有大批運過來的批發業 不可以不可以嘛 對你金門是我們的領土都不可以結果現在對美國的大方的開放變成是美國從原來是州有群流感 整個州管制現在變管制一個軍我跟你講 我跟你講我跟你講我跟你講我跟你講我跟你講我跟你講我跟你講我跟你講我跟你講我跟你講我跟你講我跟你講我跟你講我跟你講 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11785.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11810.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
變成Gene的部分是跟日本對美國是一樣的那我們也對歐盟歐盟也是10公里本身的部分10公里問題是美國那個州很大像加州就很大所以相對的我們在實務上在國際規範還有在國內我們的管制是3公里的一個3公里好那就請問你以加州為例我比較熟悉的加州 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11811.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11825.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
我就問你 那個工地裡面有瓊流桿你是不是整個加州通通把它封掉不是 是那個工地封掉那個工地封掉整個工地是移動管制而且不能從那個工地輸到台灣來 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11828.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11843.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
原來是整個州啊你現在變成康迪對不對所以我要跟委託一下你現在可不可以放寬了嗎原來是不一樣的因為因為情流感南加州有情流感原來是整個加州的東西都不能進來了結果你現在放了啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11844.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11867.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
我要 群流感本身它是一個候鳥造成的一個傳染為主的部分那在日本 在歐盟都是比較嚴格 我們反而你看喔 你講才你講喔可是你要想喔 它是屬於高病原的高病原發的群流感HPAI 是那金門的是低病原群流感H9 N5 N2 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11869.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11893.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
你對金門管制這麼嚴然後對美國這麼爽你這裡面差很多啦差很多啦這必要就是我覺得是不能類比這樣的因為金門本身的管制的部分是他本身的禽流感本身的異區還有他其他的動物的部分他的自己的管制本身是沒有符合相關的一個要求的部分你下次想啊 這個部長啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11893.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11900.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
你對美國這麼大方art的簽下來這個也放那個也放然後對我們自己的領土金門還是這麼摳我還是要強調金門的這些管制的老產品跟我們這次開放是兩件事情喔不能做比對而且我們本身在國內的13公里去做金門的禽流感是低不原的 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11922.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11951.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
美國那是高病原 你放這麼深 金門這麼遠所有的蜥蜴的產品不只是禽流感它可能還有帶有其他的這個病原跟病毒所以金門還有其他病毒喔沒有 還有 我說禽類跟蜥類我們的管制作為所以我們對於少量次用的部分我們是允許的但是大量的部分可能它帶來的風險金門的豬肉跟香腸該不該帶進來 金門的豬肉跟香腸豬肉跟香腸的部分也是次用的部分吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11952.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11968.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
資用的部分是可以的資用都可以但是拿來賣的不可以就這個意思對 那個賣的部分就是屬於大量的部分那大量的部分那你覺得他三年 現在就不三年了你不要奇怪我要跟各位報告所有的管制作為都是根據風險來做設定的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11969.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11991.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
金門的你們管他不進來是因為還有一個政治考量就厲害的啦金門是我們的領土怎麼會政治考量因為他靠近廈門那是風險的關係那是風險你們還是頭腦政治的頭腦不是那是風險的關係因為你們要放寬今天的一個說你們要回應今天就讓你回應要放寬174項的農藥產業標準把PPM再提高 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11996.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12022.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
異動的涉及到這個芬普林 阿芙比 特安博 福塞德等等38種農藥174項的農產品的標準這些都用於美國的農產品有不能產品會有致癌的風險比如說芬普林柑橘類由0.5ppm提高到2ppm放寬有的農藥容許值放寬百倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12025.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12050.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
我還是跟你講昨天食藥署已經有記者會也確認了基本上我們這個農藥殘留標準的檢討是每年在滾動檢討的那以114年來講他持續在檢討分兩個部分國內的需求或是整個國際貿易的需求那這個部分都要去針對我們專家本身相關的到底要多少定多少殘留量他的毒性他的毒性為依據 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12051.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12056.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
我問你這樣對不對嘛因為我實驗到了對啊這個數字對不對嘛你對我放寬百倍了這個沒有這個相關的沒有這個跟放寬沒有關係是我們所有的農藥的殘留一定在這個標準值內是對我們比如說豐盛你的農藥的值從0.5到2 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12070.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12090.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
那就是方寬多少方寬40倍啦方寬40倍啦我要跟您講喔所謂的MIL就是在這個劑量之下是安全的然後衛生部那邊有一個ADI就是每人每天攝取的總量的部分一個是總量管制所以我們所有的農藥的產業力量都是根據科學根據專業的一個我告訴你最後一句話啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12096.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12112.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
我善意的認真的提醒農業部不要ART簽下來我們的農產品這樣完全失守我們的食安失守這個東西很可怕啦這個農業部來講或是以行政團隊來講我們一直確保我們的糧食的安全我們也確保國內的健康發生什麼靈官要進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12121.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12141.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
沒有 相對的所有的我們要看整體的農業的相關的一個談判的一個成果那個體的部分我們也會持續的去做一些支持的方案那飲料的部分請問你啦現在現在美國的農村民的大局進來齁你不要想說他在比例很低啊幹什麼的未來一定很多啦請問你 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12143.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12150.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
你準備了多少錢來幫助這些受損害的農民我想我們基本上我們現在預計用300億的農安基金300億不夠嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12155.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12173.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
我要跟委員報告這次案子談出來其實是我們的機會我們要趁這個機會去做產業的轉型那轉型的過程需要的經費我們會去支持包括包括你講的花生的話我們會更多的力道去做台灣花生的市場區隔做我們生產這方面的沒有其他我們都評估了像 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12177.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12205.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
最近媒體報的寬皮肝寬皮肝進口不到1%而且它的價格比台灣還貴它只是一個替代性的以後就會進來就很多了啦這個東西 你要考慮一下我想委員大家都有疑慮但是我們很清楚的告訴各位我們台灣的寬皮肝跟美國進來的這個柑橘的部分是兩個是不同屬性的三季熊在當行政院長的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12206.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12230.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
受進口損害基金就1000億了結果現在這次你大舉放寬容產品才準備300億我要跟你們講當年的WTO是對所有全世界各國但是這次我們只是跟對日本本身我們得到一個非常好的一個成果所以跟單獨對美國跟單獨全部面對全世界這是兩個不同層次的一個挑戰謝謝了 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12232.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12246.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
好謝謝這個委員那接下來的話陳超明陳超明陳超明委員接下來我們請蔡易瑜委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12264.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12267.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
謝謝主席那我們是不是有請部長有請陳部長部長好部長我現在有貼我第一頁這個有五個屬於農業的設施 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12284.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12308.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
那其中有包括大家最熟悉的溫暖室那也有包括豬寮、雞寮還有那種沒力的木耳寮也有這個菇寮那我們現在在現行的一個老農津貼的暫行條例那有所謂的排付條款那我們現在行政院的版本跟部長你所支持的排付條款的金額應該要從500萬因應著現在整個物價的一個上漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12313.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12327.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
那這個排富條款會提高到1025萬這個是一個修法的方向那可是咧因為我有太多的農民在跟我反映這件事其中就有包括種植木耳的農民他在跟我說 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12330.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12346.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
我這樣舉的這樣五張照片部長你知不知道哪一些會被記錄這樣的一個建築物會被記錄在老農津貼暫行條例應該要被排附的這個是房屋就是不動場 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12347.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12373.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
現在幾乎都沒有 都會納入計算都會納入計算嗎對 但是我認為一般農業的生產設施是不應該納入的所以在這次修法的過程中我想雖然說我們在條文裡面沒有去做處理但是我會支持就是說真正的農業生產設施你不能把它當作一個財產去當作排富因為排富基本上是以居住的為主的或是其他的利用為主但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12375.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12397.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
純粹農業生產 像您剛才講的這些雞寮 香菇寮因為沒有這個設施 農業就沒辦法經營啊對 所以目前大概只有溫網是不會計算溫網是另外的 溫網是現在農業的部分它就是被視為農業設施其他的這一些可能就是它有硬體啦所以它就被計算但是呢 它就不是在住嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12398.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12417.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
他就不是在祝他有這樣的一個建築物存在基本上就是為了要從事這些農業不管是他是續產還是說他這個木耳鳥或香菇鳥被記錄到排富我覺得對這些農民相對不公平就如同部長你也認同這樣的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12419.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12442.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
所以我們後續在處理條例的時候我想也可以將這個部分拿出來討論我們看怎麼樣處理好 那未來就是在處理條例我覺得這部分真的也要去注意第二個想跟部長再聊一下就是說丹納斯風災那已經從去年7月到現在5月已經10個月也即將要一年了 時間事實上過得很快 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12443.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12445.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
但是時間過得這麼快對很多農民尤其是這一些這些機場就是機社或者是租社他們因為丹納斯受到損害那 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12459.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12481.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
趕快讓他們收這件事拖很久到目前為止應該還有400多件沒有完成驗收那沒有完成驗收當然就會影響到他們去申請這個補助款但是我們也知道說因為工程到了每一個階段就有一個付款的一個壓力那這個補助款一直沒有下來對於這一些因為丹納斯受損然後他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12482.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12498.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
還要花錢去修繕他們整個整個一個設施的事實上壓力是很大所以時間過得快但是相對的這樣的一個行政流程到現在還跑不完那我想部長這個有沒有辦法檢討要怎麼來加速呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12499.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12517.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
第一個部分我們如果農業部可以協助的地方就是相關於這些案件申請的縣市我們邊有一些所謂的業用人員就是按新計酬的業用人員來協助他做這個事情還有我們有個輔導團隊去做他的一個用視訊去驗收但是現在卡到有一個比較致命的就是說很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12519.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12544.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
經費我們撥到地方政府地方政府要經過市議會同意以後才能納入地方政府的預算才能夠開始做後續的處理所以這個這個變成就是縣市政府因為不同的縣市本身他對於他我們補助的東西他要納入預算然後經過他們的縣議會或市議會來同意才能做那這個部分我覺得後續我們應該要要避開這個這個這個線路路線 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12547.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12569.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
因為要透過地方政府 這個很明顯因為地方政府的驗收這個量能不夠嘛你現在說好 政府就去嫁人 這個可能又有地方政府另外一道程序所以這個能不能用專案的方式 直接說針對不同的縣市 因為丹納斯最嚴重的就是台南 嘉義 高雄嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12569.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12587.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
那能不能用專案的來協助這一些來把他們驗收的工作把它完成我曾經考慮過用開口合約的方式因為你進到縣市縣市又要去招聘又要去公告又要去選人的時候那個速度會變慢那後續如果再發生類似這種情形的時候我覺得用一個開口合約 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12589.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12611.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
用一個開口合約的方式 由各地方政府依照他的需要我們有一定的人員提供給他們的時候 這樣會加速他們的效率那現在就可以啟動這樣子這個我現在看說 現在目前如果是卡在驗收本身 那也許可以協助如果是卡在地方政府的預算要經過議會審議通過 那這個部分就沒辦法處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12613.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12621.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
好 就我目前了解應該是在驗收這一段 是 這個我了解那如果是不是跟地方政府再溝通一下好 那最後一個問題就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12623.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12641.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
針對一些農產品的進口議題啦那事實上我想跟部長聊的就是說因為WTO以及現在跟美國R的談判事實上一些農產品的進口當然這個是對等我們希望我們的台灣農產品出口相對的這一些國外的農產品也會進來台灣這個當然是談判 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12644.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12672.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
都會變成一個雙邊必須要對等的一個要求但是我總是會想要跟部長說因為畢竟台灣的農產品跟像美國這樣的國家他們用大規模就是大農的一個政策跟我們台灣小農的政策這個還是有很大的落差所以台灣畢竟在小農政策下我們農產品出來的時候如果正好又有進口整個農產品的價格就會下滑 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12673.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12695.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
我舉例,像我們嘉義的六角就會盛產馬鈴薯馬鈴薯事實上台灣是不多,但是我們嘉義六角這裡有在產馬鈴薯它的產季就差不多在兩年的前後,大概一到三月那如果像花生,它們就一整年就冷卻它們有冬作跟秋作,就有不同的產季你如果水産品,像我們台灣的蚵仔,它就差不多在五月到九月,就是差不多在中秋 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12699.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12723.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
中秋節進行 這是額外產季那這一些現在當然有在進口但是我們有 部長您我們能不能去跟這些進口商說因為他們可以進口沒有不對但是中時階的進口商他們可以稍微調配一下不要跟台灣的產季去撞齊比如說馬鈴吉他就在這月到三月這段時間他們收斂一下他們收斂一下這段時間比較不要進口 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12728.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12752.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
比較不要進口,然後抓好農民,一段時間他的農產品出來的時候價格會穩定這也不影響到進口商,因為進口商他們自然有他自己的價格但是不要因為他自己的價格去衝擊到我們自己,我們台灣的農民他們正好,他們的這個農產品出來的時候所以保留這事實上可以去跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12753.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12769.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
跟跨部會啦,和這些政高雄來溝通一下說你們就算可以政高,也要拼開我們台灣的農民這個產品回去生存的時候我想跟委員報告,據我所了解的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12770.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12795.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
這些進口業者跟在產地收購我們產品的業者之後是同一組人馬啦所以他們本身有自己的調度的一個行為但是我在這邊更要強調的就是說當然沒有錯我們的產地本身有沒有辦法用一個類似我們一直在推集團栽培那集團栽培它後面的通路都已經確認了這樣前端的種植就不用擔心說量多價就跌啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12796.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12818.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
用這種方式去確保我們台灣的農產品的一個量這是一個非常重要所以我們對非常多的作物都會推動比較大量的集團栽培的方式來協助那當然我們也可以跟進口商去說就是為了台灣的農業我們應該適度的做一些他們內部的一個調度這個我想我們也會來努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12818.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12846.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
我估計可以溝通看看,盡量跟他們溝通我們一直持續在溝通嘛對,就是說就撇開嘛而且如果是同一組人的話,他也會去算嘛對不對,就是說至少可以今年就要修行的時候,他們進口箱就稍微收斂一下他們就是撇開的時候,他們才有進口我想我們會更積極來跟這些進口商來看看怎麼樣去處理會比較好一點好,那再麻煩部長,謝謝好,謝謝差異委員,謝謝部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12848.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12855.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
何欣淳 何欣淳 何欣淳委員接下來我們請盧憲一委員質詢謝謝主席 有請我們園民會縣委會主長 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12875.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12891.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
我們針對第37條就是山坡地保育條例這邊有幾個問題請教當然這時候我們推這個法案就是為了要擴大土地取得移轉對象到部落來落實公法人的地位所以這是遏止我們的屆民登記的亂象來鳴聽國家主動查明跟訴請返還的義務 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12895.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12907.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
第三个就是民地政府承受土地的补偿基准保障原住民财产的权益所以我想知道最核心的问题就是非原住民建民登记原住民保留地到底有多严重 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12910.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12930.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
陳律師委員所關切的其實非原住民藉由屆民登記的方式去取得實質取得使用原住民保育權益的部分其實是蠻嚴重的所以針對委員在我們300條137條所提的屆民登記的一些禁止還有就是一些配套抽屍的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12930.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12948.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
方向上是支持的但是我跟委員報告就是說因為我們原民會報到行政院的原住民保留地山坡地管理利用條例的部分針對建民登記的部分在第13條的草案的部分有更完整的一個配套一個機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12948.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12974.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
譬如說 譬如說在原住民保地移轉之前移轉之前受讓人受讓人跟讓人的部分要先拒絕他們不會讓非原住民獲得實際使用的權利這個部分是不是容委員等一下我們在逐條討論的時候我提一些具體的修正條文建議謝謝村長 因為時間的關係另外可能還是需要你的書面報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12975.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12991.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
我想知道就是說這十年來疑似建民登基於住民土地而保留地的案件有多少有多少陳情有多少的檢舉有多少的行政調查有沒有多少去移送司法這些我是覺得還是要有一些數據出來讓我們知道它的嚴重性接下來就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12991.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13016.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
原民會作為原住民主土地權益主管機關有沒有建立一個說疑似屆民登記的案件資料庫去懷疑說這樣是不是有一個潛在的風險所以就是說有沒有能力做原住民保留地做異常遺傳分析也就是說你可能做一個行政查核的線索去查到比如說一些異常的資金流向 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13017.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13026.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
或者說因為土地登記遺傳的那個平反啊所以就做一個行政查案的線索你就可以做更具體的一個所謂的查報的動作是 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13027.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13046.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
好那最後就是說我想要知道現在我們要把它土地要歸還給部落嘛那部落公法人目前現在還在四半的階段我想知道說不要讓公法人只是一個名義所以是不是部落公法人是不是在這個國土計畫下呢原住民主土地的使用計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13048 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13065.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
他可以是一個申請主體嗎第一個問題第二個他是不是只是一個被諮詢的一個單位而不是說去參與的他的一個擬定國土計畫的一個擬定第三個就是部落共法人跟行政機關共同管理部落周邊的自然資源第四 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13066.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13083.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
部落会议如果做成自身同意的议决的时候对目的事业主管机关是否有具备实质的法律拘束力第五若发生个别是有地主同意可是单部落会议集体反对的利益冲突的时候目前的配套措施是什么 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13084.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13101.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
第六 最後一個問題就是附條件同意政府有無建立追蹤管控機制確保廠商或機關在後續開發中有沒有落實承諾這樣我跟陸委報告就是有關於部落國法人的部分就是我們今年已經開始擴大 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13101.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13122.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
事辦那個部落公保人的部落數已經達到10個這個部分那我們是希望藉由這樣子一個事辦計畫的部分讓部落公保人他實際上針對剛剛委員所關切的6個議題的部分他在實務運作上他是不是能夠有足夠的量能去承接這樣子的一個法律主體的地位然後去 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13123.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13139.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
去實施有關於國土計畫法它一個申辦的主體區域計畫法或者說智商同益機制等等這些相關的一些量能的部分我們透過這樣一個示範計畫今年已經從5個把它擴大到10個這樣子一個情形去推動那當然就是說如果這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13140.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13167.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
推動一個結果的話那我們會做後續我們訂定部落公法人實施辦法這樣一個重要的一個參據大概是這樣子謝謝處長就是說如果這些問題沒有清楚的答案我是覺得說部落公法人這些機制啊只是會讓主任覺得很像行政更複雜啦而不是讓治理更清楚所以我還是希望園民會這邊能夠多加努力好不好是我們會配到機制把它完整之後會再提出來我們具體的實施辦法謝謝處長謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13172.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13190.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
謝謝胡憲宜委員謝謝林倩琦 林倩琦 林倩琦委員謝龍介 謝龍介 謝龍介委員葉元芝 葉元芝 葉元芝委員林楚英 林楚英 林楚英委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13192.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13217.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
好 登記發言委員除不在場外其餘經理發言完畢 詢答結束二 委員謝龍介 陳超敏所提書面質詢列入記錄並刊登公報書面質詢和未及答覆部分請相關單位於一周內以書面答覆並複製本會委員並要求期限者從期鎖定 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13218.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13233.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
那麼討論事項所列三案合併尋答結束那現在請議事人員宣讀所有條文若有修正動議及附帶決議請一併宣讀行政機關可以先行離開 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13238.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13262.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
水土保持法部分條文修正草案委員萬美玲等人提案第二條據中 中央修正為農業部與同現行條文委員林黛華等人提案第二條同委員萬美玲等人提案台灣民眾黨黨團提案第二十三條第一項及第二項據中按次處罰修正為按日處罰增訂第三項在公有或私人山坡地 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13263.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13284.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
國公有靈區他人私有靈區內未經同意而擅自開發經營使用者除一第33條案日分別處罰外主管機關應令其立即停止一切行為並命其獻其整復藉其不辦理整復或整復不完整者 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13285.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13306.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
因案日連續處罰至遵行為止並由職轄市縣市主管機關代為整複及清除其設施其費用由行為人負擔現行條文第三項 第一為第四項 與同現行條文台灣民眾黨黨團提案第32條第一項罰金修正新台幣200萬元以上500萬元以下 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13307.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13336.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
第二項致死及致重傷罰金分別修正為新台幣一千五百萬元以下罰金及新台幣一千萬元以下罰金第三項罰金修正新台幣一百萬元以下罰金與同現行條文委員林倩琦等人提案第三十三條第一項續文罰金修正新台幣三十萬元以上三百萬元以下罰原第三項據守刑度修正處一年以上五年以下由其徒刑 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13336.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13354.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
於同現行條文台灣民眾黨黨團提案第33條第一項續文罰金修正為新台幣30萬元以上300萬元以下莫具增訂或未經同意而擅自開發經營使用者等文字第二項劇中按次處罰修正為按日處罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13356.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13384.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
巨莫修正所需费用除未经同意擅自开发经营使用者由行为人负担外应由经营人使用人或所有人负担第三项违反随图保持技术规则自使及自重商罚金者分别修正为新台币200万元以上500万元以下新台币1000万元以下及新台币800万元以下罚金 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13385.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13413.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
山坡地保育利用條例部分條文修正草案委員謝依鳳等人提案第二條去中中央修正為農業部於同現行條文委員萬美玲等人提案第二條同委員謝依鳳等人提案委員林黛華等人提案第二條同委員謝依鳳等人提案委員鄭天才等人提案第二條同委員謝依鳳等人提案台灣民眾黨黨團提案第十條去中增訂未經同意等文字於同現行條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13414.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13437.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
委員徐富奎等人提案第15條第一項具中增訂及人身安全等文字與同現行條文委員羅志強等人提案第15條同委員徐富奎等人提案台灣民眾黨黨團提案第34條第一項罰金修正200萬元以上500萬元以下罰金第二項致死及致重傷罰金分別修正為 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13437.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13446.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
新台幣1500萬元以下罰金及新台幣1000萬元以下罰金第三項自災罰金修正新台幣100萬元以下罰金與同現行條文台灣民眾黨黨團提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13450.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13479.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
第35條第一項序文罰金修正為30萬元以上300萬元以下增訂第一款違反第10條規定未取得同意擅自實施開發經營使用者現行條文第一款及第二款第一為第二款及第三款第二項據中按次處罰修正為按日處罰及莫具增訂除未經同意擅自開發經營使用者由行為人負擔外應由 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13481.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13505.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
經營人使用人或所有人負擔第三項自災自死至重傷罰金分別修正為200萬元以上500萬元以下1000萬元以下及800萬元以下與同現行條文委員鄭天才等人第37條第一項第二句莫具增訂或部落等文字增訂第六項依第三項由政府承受之私有 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13505.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13530.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
原住民保留地 其土地價值以公告限值加事成為計算基準現行條文第6項 第1為第7項 與同現行條文委員鄭天才等人提案第37條 增訂第6項非原住民屆民登記原住民保留地所有權者無效 中央原住民族主管機關應查明並 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13532.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13558.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
訴請返還現行條文第六項 第一為第七項並徵定非原住民借民登記之返還等文字 於同現行條文農業發展條例部分條文修正草案委員劉建國等人提案第二條據中 中央修正為農業部 於同現行條文委員邱振軍等人提案第三條 徵定第十九款 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13559.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13588.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
19.天然災害只因颱風、墳峰、龍捲風、豪雨、陰雨、冰雹、寒流、旱災或地震所造成之災害或因氣候異常導致發生並從害之災害與同現行條文台灣民眾黨黨團主議案增訂第十條之一農業用地應維持其農業生產功能與自然生態農業用地除符合農業使用目的之天然 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13589.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13604.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
原土或适合农作之有机质改良土外不得为砂石砖瓦混凝土块营建剩余土石方废弃物或其他不适合种植农作物 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13606.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13629.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
之堆置填埋或回填前項所稱天然原土有機質改良土之認定標準來源管理使用方式查驗程序及其他應遵循事項由中央主管機關會商有關機關定之委員呂玉玲等人提案第60條增訂第二項前項所稱之天然災害指因颱風、焚風、龍捲風、豪雨、陰雨、冰雹、寒流 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13634.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13651.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
旱災地震或野生動物保護法所定保育類野生動物所造成之損害現行條文第二項第一為第三項及修正條次增訂第四項前項現金補救補助或低利貸款辦法各 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13652.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13678.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
及政府單位應建立通報機制及宣導措施其相關辦法由中央主管機關定之現行條文第三項第一為第五項與同現行條文委員楊瓊穎等人提案第六十條增訂第四項第一項現金救助所定金額由中央主管機關參照中央主管機關發布之最近一年消費者物價指數較前次調整之前一年 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13678.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13704.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
消費者物價指數成長率每兩年定期調整公告之但成長率為零或複數時不予調整 與同現行條文邱志偉等人提案第60條 增訂第二項前項所稱天然災害 汐止 陰 颱風 焚風 豪雨 陰雨 冰雹 寒流地震 乾旱 蟲災 森林火災 保育類野生動物危害及其他 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13705.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13713.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
大面積不可抗力之自然現象所造成之損害現行條文第二項及第三項第一為第三項第四項與同現行條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13715.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13742.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
委員陳昌明等人提案第60條除第一項聚首增訂或野生動物保育法第21條第一項第二款之請示及第三項著作文字修正與同現行條文委員邱志偉等人提案增訂第65條之一為維護農業勞動力之健康及穩定中央主管機關因編列預算並會同中央衛生主管機關就疑似從事農業之職業性傷害及 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13744.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13765.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
疾病之因素防治設備及護具研發等四項進行研究教育推廣及合作並訂定相關辦法台灣民眾黨團提案第69條增訂第三項違反第10條之一規定擅自於農業用地堆置填埋或回填砂石磚瓦混凝土塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13766.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13778.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
營建剩餘土時發廢棄物或其他不適合種植農作物之物質或非天然原土或適合農作之有機質改良土者 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13778.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13803.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
處新台幣60萬元以上300萬元以下罰款沒入其施工機具並應限期令其清除改正並恢復原狀藉其未改正完成者應按日連續處罰至其恢復原狀為止並由直轄市縣市主管機關代為恢復原狀其費用由行為人負擔與同現行條文宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13810.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13810.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
三坡地保育條例 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13832.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13856.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
三坡地保育利用條例第37條修正動議提案人鄭天才委員等4人第37條三坡地範圍內原住民族保留除依法不得私有外應輔導原住民或部落取得承租權或無償取得所有權原住民取得原住民保留地所有權如有依轉以原住民或部落為限修正第4項 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13858.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13874.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
修正第四項修正第四項或部落違憲 據莫修正為或部落違憲修正第六項依第六項由政府承受之私有原住民保留地 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13875.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13888.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
其土地價值以公告限值加市成為計算機者第七項非原住民借民登記原住民保留地所有權者無效中央原住民族主管機關應查明並訴請返還 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13893.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13918.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
第八項 靜默修正為非原住民卸名登記之返還及其他輔導管理相關事項之辦法宣讀完畢好 本日討論事項三案均已詢答結束及宣讀完畢並定期繼續進行審查謝謝大家 現在散會 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13970.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
13970.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
谢谢大家 |