| IVOD_ID |
17398 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17398 |
| 日期 |
2026-04-30 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-36-10 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第10次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
10 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第10次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2026-04-30T08:31:03+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-04-30T11:28:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
02:56:57 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8d241381c4f8c7fcb2fe689bc7515e1bd6a76734f739918293824e7b654fef38896df79a45ed380b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-04-30T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於法務部及所屬主管收支部分。
二、審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於法務部主管「法務部矯正機關作業基金」收支部分。
三、審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於法務部主管「毒品防制基金」收支部分。
四、審查法務部函送財團法人臺灣更生保護會、財團法人福建更生保護會及財團法人犯罪被害人保護協會115年度預算書案。
【僅進行詢答；預算提案於5月14日下午2時截止收件】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:03 - 11:28:00 |
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1796.09 |
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報告委員會 出席委員六人 以足法定人數 請主席宣布開會好 這場的委員 還有法務部的長官們 大家好那麼我們現在開會首先先進行報告事項 請先宣讀上次的會議議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1815.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1840.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
立法院第十一屆第五會期司法及法治委員會第九次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國一百一十五年四月二十九日星期三上午九時至十時四十一分地點本院紅樓三零二會議室出席委員陳昭志委員等十一人列席委員鍾嘉斌委員等三人列席官員監察院秘書長黃士卓等人主席翁昭祺委員小林報告事項宣讀上次會議議事錄決定確定討論事項審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1843.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1857.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
一百一十五年度中央政府總預算案關於監察院主管不含審計部及所屬收支部分本次會議有委員陳昭芝等七人提出質詢委員蔡其章等四人提出書面質詢決議一報告及詢答完畢二本案令定期 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1859.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1874.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
繼續審查三委員執行時要求提供相關資料會議書面答覆者請相關機關禁書送交個別委員及本會四審查會委員針對本日議程所列討論事項之預算提案請於五月六日星期三下午二十前送交本會預時不予修理宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1878.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1891.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
請問各位委員上次的會議議事錄有沒有錯誤或遺漏沒有的話我們就議事錄確定接著我就先介紹到場的委員以及應邀列席官員首先介紹的是莊瑞雄莊委員還有陳昭志陳委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1894.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1923.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
那接下來我就介紹今天列席的官員有法務部鄭明謙正部長黃謀信政務次長還有型態造型檢察總長法務部的矯正署林憲明林署長還有高檢署的張檢察長法務部調查局的陳百利陳局長法務部廉政署的謝明冠謝署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1925.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1943.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
還有福建高等檢察署金門檢查分署的毛友貞檢察長法務部法醫研究所侯寬仁侯所長法務部司法官學院吳循龍吳院長法務部行政執行組的廟卓然署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1946.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1969.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
其餘沒有介紹的列席代表就請蔡院名單本席不再逐一介紹並列入公報記錄由於本次會議我們這個是針對法務部的預算所以列席的官員很多因為我們會議室的座位有限所以在隔壁的301會議室也安排了各地方的檢察署檢察長等等列席代表的位置 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1970.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1981.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
現場也有電視螢幕可以即時的收看審查會詢答的情形會議當中委員如果有詢問到相關的主管事項的時候再請坐在301會議室的這些長官們再移到備詢台這裡來做答詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1992.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2014.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
另外本次議程排定討論四項總共四案分別為第一案審查一百一十五年度中央政府總預算案關於法務部及所屬的主管收支部分第二至第四案審查法務部主管的法務部矯正機關作業基金毒品防治基金的收支部分以及財團法人台灣更生保護會等一百一十五年度預算書案 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2016.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2035.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
本次會議僅進行詢答那另外特別提醒的就是我們審查預算的相關提案在5月14號的下午2點截止收件於時不予受理那請機關於之後會議處理提案之前呢要可以利用時間先與提案的委員進行溝通協調以利後續的預算審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2039.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2040.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
主席 各位委員女士 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2064.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2074.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
今天應邀列席大院第十一屆第五會期司法法治委員會情理委員會議報告法務部主管115年施政計畫及收支預算案 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2074.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2097.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
深感榮幸 緊就本部主管1.4年中藥業務辦理進行以及1.5年施政重點主管預算案及附屬單位的預算向各位委員提出報告進行指教法務部主管的業務狀況根據落實武打奇岸政策執行綠燃灑灰速戰策略推動新式待返的策略行動綱領落實打炸行動綱領強化服務業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2099.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2120.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
兒少保護及防治家庭暴力聯絡研修指控防治法公益戒閉者保護法在14年7月22日正式施行打造勇敢戒閉安心保障的戒閉友善的文化推動聯合國反貪污公約自主的審查機制精進專業矯正處理的模式協助收容脫離詐騙並成功 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2122.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2136.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
更生推動矯正機關科技安全網建設計畫建構堅韌安全的智慧監獄出行提升矯正同仁的待遇去年7月1日起合法審慮危勞性的勤務津貼 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2137.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2147.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
推動溫暖有感的柔性施法設置跟新生保護服務據點施法保護醫療關懷聯盟也督導飯堡協會結合53名醫療照護專業人員以37個地方長照身上結構合作提供長照的服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2156.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2177.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
行政執行署應用AI模型導入AI數位轉型簡化流程提升效能加強致歉大負的執行專案也配合檢查機關主託執行變價案件提升犯罪被害人未來受償的可能性調查局配合行政院強化涉及國家安全或重大利益公務人員特殊查核的一個政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2178.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2207.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
辦理特殊查核防止境外敵對勢力滲透對付國際交流提升打擊跨境犯罪能量偵辦電腦及網路犯罪防止假訊息那另外強化國際司法付諸我國以馬紹爾群島共和國簽署《刑事司法付諸條約》另以勝利西亞德國簽署《司法付諸協議》分別在2014年5月及6月生效那完成兩公約第四次國家報告中英文版的發表研修民法、離婚法制 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2208.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2219.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
14年鄉鎮省調解的一個案件數逾14萬件稅入部分本部14年稅入法定預算新台幣93億1040萬元執行結果決算數是112億3173萬2000元執行比例是超過120.64% |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2232.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2245.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那稅出部分本部主管14年稅出法定的預算數是44819621萬元 執行結果決算數是441億3113萬1000元執行比例是98.3%各項業務計畫推動順利那115年施政的一個重點及一起績效是遵行五大其案政策強化 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2260.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2284.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
企圖及懲罰策略安定秩序守護公寓更是推動司法改革應用AI提升效能營造司法友善的環境促進人權保障及轉型正義落實國際人權規範完備現代法制完善洗錢防治體質推動國際司法互助合作落實國安防護科技輔助預證健全矯正處域機制復歸轉型連接不漏接 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2288.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2302.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
推動柔性司法政策發展多元關懷業務深化司法保護業務落實聯合國反貪污公約完備反貪污法制推動科技化行政執行措施關懷弱勢完善程序提升執行效能 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2304.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2314.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那稅入15年的一個稅入部分本部主管15年稅入的預算編列90億186,000元加14年93億104萬元減列3例多減列比例是3.32%主要是違法罰金及反起訴處分金等收入減 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2325.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2333.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
檢列手製那稅數部分115年稅出預算共編列508億365萬4千元較14年法定預算呢488億4567萬1千元增列59億5798萬3千元增幅比例是13.29%最主要是要維持所屬機關人員的一個維持基本營運資訊設備太久等 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2353.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2370.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
另外還有簽建會整修會336億7716萬6500萬配合重要施政計畫編列預算那其他是請參閱書面的一個資料那附屬單位的預算矯正機關作業基金及那個毒品防治基金請參閱書面的一個資料那 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2373.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2402.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
本部主管15年預算案去配合施政計畫及業務重點因各項要推廣並就目標效益整體的一個檢討審慎橫著各項的一個需要來編列的那本部依預算法41條第4項規定將15年本部主管裁判法人預算書送大院審議詳細編列情形指引情形稍後將由該裁判法人董事長為各位委員來報告 以上報告敬請各位委員鼎力支持 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2405.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2422.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
好 謝謝曾部長那接下來我們再有請財團法人犯罪被害人保護協會及台灣更生保護協會的董事長張斗輝張董事長來進行報告那麼兩岸就一起一併進行報告發言時間三分鐘好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2425.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2438.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
主席 各位委員 各位女士 各位先生以下請就我們泛寶的業務執行情形以及115年度的業務推動重點及預算編列情形而要報告如下服務的量能截至114年12月進行收看3,555件服務268,318人次較去年同期增加35%另外114年業務執行的情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2451.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2472.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
第一個 我們落實重大案件機制的關懷第二 完善國民法官法案件關懷的服務措施擴大律師酬勤及專業協助規範另外 與法府合作推動律師培訓推動新生保護服務據點 成立司法保護醫療關懷聯盟 結合民間企業提供重商培養人輔導 深化跨域合作 精進人力的培訓 組織發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2473.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2485.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
那115年的1月5推動重點以建立永續專業包容的犯罪被害人知識服務為核心落實聯合國SDGS的永續發展為目標那預算的執行情形累計實收數3億9206萬7252元執行率100.86%累計支出數4億2819萬9312元執行率114 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2499.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2519.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
那115年的預算配合的一個重點的編列進行收入及支出的編列較上年度增加1,404萬2千元主要是要接受政府補助收入及民間的捐助款增加相對半各項業務活動支出隨之增加對於本會115年度的預算還進行各位委員與事 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2523.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2541.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
現身予以鼎力的支持另外舊耕保的一個業務114年度耕生保護會配合行政與新世代反讀策略行動綱領提供耕生人心理諮商心理輔導租金補助津貼就業穩定獎勵金求職就業補助就業全請獎勵金 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2546.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2562.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
緊急生活物資等各項的服務以及強化安置處所提供全省29家短期收容居住並服務以就業基訓及心理諮商輔導新增開發協力廠商以及提供重大事故及災害時生活困難之救助還有透過實際面訪或電訪關懷更生人針對多元緊急 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2567.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2591.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
或具符合性議題的個案 施以複數輔導及密集追蹤 落實貫穿式的保護暨服務20,052人次 開發及輔導更生人創業推動無息創業貸款 提早進入監所服務提升未來接受服務的意願促進社會友善接納 減少對更生人的負面標籤推動更生藝術的平台 協助更生藝術家推展作品提高知名度 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2592.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2614.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
優化家庭支持的專業服務修復與家庭的關係本會115年度的業務計畫的重點請參閱另外本會在既有的技術上會更新努力務其我們更生人的富貴社會的自力更生能夠適應社會生活並預防災難本會115年度預算案一一計畫需要何時編列請請主委委員可以支持謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2617.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2623.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
好 謝謝那接下來我們再請更生保護會的董事長 毛董事長來進行報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2632.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2654.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
主席各位委員各位女士先生大家好財團法人更生保護會轄管金門連江兩縣專責人員三人承蒙大院各位委員女士先生給予更生保護工作熱心指導跟支持在此表示最深的敬意謝意以下請就114年度執行績效預算情形以及115年的業務重點跟預算編列的情況分為幾個項次向各位報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2655.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2669.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
首先就是就114年業務執行重點跟績效摘要說明關於創新的技職訓練部分我們在金門監獄推動了頂經往事農場讓學員在耕作的中可以體悟一分耕一分收穫的價值觀念 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2670.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2692.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
並建立規律作息勤奮工作期望有效能夠戒除吸毒跟矯正不勞而獲等偏差行為在水電職類我們114年中有9人參訓其中8個人順利取得了室內配線丙級技術士也就是電匠的一個證照那這個證照的取得我相信能夠對我們學員的就業的競爭力以及讓他這個出獄之後的就業能夠無縫的接軌 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2697.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2724.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
另外我們持續的在金門有開辦手工麵線班跟燒餅班讓更生人在不同的領域都能夠培養出一技之長其次是關於貫穿式輔導跟家庭支持我們深信更生人要站得穩家庭支持是一個關鍵因此我們秉持了貫穿式輔導的理念讓家庭關係緊張的收容能夠修補關係提高高風險家庭的支持讓他們能夠順利回歸家庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2727.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2743.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
另外在春節端午節跟更生保護節我們總共關懷了98人次的貧困個案家庭提供了衛助金跟生活輔助再者就就學就業等全方位的保護網絡我們結合了就業中心跟協力雇主 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2745.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2766.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
輔導45人次的穩定就業同時針對跟生人跟子女的就學提供獎學金參考書跟資助學渣費一共77人次那140年度的預算執行情形收入的部分那這個業務收入跟業務收入一共829萬較業預算有所增加主要是因為捐贈的收入跟現金鼓勵的收入 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2767.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2778.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
超出預期那支出的部分我們秉持著尊潔的原則有效控管業務支出大概759萬那相抵之後呢結餘大概是703,883元那115年的業務計畫重點跟預期的績效呢首先就是精進多元技職訓練跟就業輔助 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2788.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2816.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
加强入监宣导强化出监转衔强化毒品更生支持方案健全更生保护服务网络健全专业训练扩大服务能量最后就是倡议社会接纳促进多元共荣我们将持续结合各界的资源利用董事顾问专家学者志工等不同领域的专业提供多元的服务以同理包容的角度协助更生人复归社会自力更生适应社会生活并预防再犯 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2816.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2826.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
那這個部分我們編列的預算都是何時來編列也懇請各位支持跟指教 謝謝大家好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2828.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2844.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
那麼現在機關代表報告完畢相關書面的內容就請各位參閱並且列入公報記錄那麼我們現在就開始進行詢答那本會委員詢答的時間為8分鐘必要時候可以延長2分鐘那非本會委員詢答時間5分鐘並不再延長 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2848.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2858.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
好 那麼我們就先 其實好 上午10點30分截止發言登記那請登記第一位委員 莊瑞雄委員 請發言謝謝主席 我想總長要來這裡質詢請法務部 政部長好 請政部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2873.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2896.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
委員長今天是我們整個業務報告跟預算的一個詢答那我想首先來救教我們正部長我今天早上其實我看那個臉書啊那個中信的臉書我嚇了一大跳我看到你那個大頭的一個帥照說你今天要到台中中紀球場中信兄弟你要去開球嗎要去參加這個盛會 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2902.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2926.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
要參加盛會這個大家又聽不太懂了中信啦啦隊很聰明樂天啦啦隊也很聰明你今天下午要去參加第一個就是有一點讓人感覺社會大眾會覺得有一點反差你的職務嘛 法務部部長 朝夕糾正剛剛媒體在問我的時候我就說你不要覺得意外 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2927.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2936.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
小弟我是台灣自然大聯盟的會長我接任會長以後 台灣地檢署 各個地檢署跟柏油有關的地檢署檢察長我都去拜訪 很簡單 走 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2942.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2949.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
有人打假球 拜託他們要做監控我問你 你今天去球場是要做什麼你不知道人家啦啦隊最聰明的 你有準備嗎我告訴你 中信啦啦隊最聰明的是什麼樂天啦啦隊最聰明的是什麼你現在在求救 我看你們下面沒辦法 我就幫你倒卡抽一條 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2969.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2986.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
謝謝委員的關心今天我是抱著很開心的一個心情去這是非常好的事情啊這個非常好的事因為我們都是屬於國球棒球的一個球迷事實上我小孩子小的時候我就是想帶他到棒球場去看這個棒球的比賽還玩那個波浪舞 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2987.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3011.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
所以你就是去看啦啦隊的對嗎?這啦啦隊當然是我們一定會去看到啦啦隊非常好啊 職棒的啦啦隊看起來多陽光 多正面 多青春你有拍我們職人看那個特定的 看起來都不會流血但是你會看起來都紅了你知道嗎?我們台灣的這個職棒的啦啦隊是全世界有名的因為有些外國的那些啦啦隊那些明星就跑來台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3011.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3022.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
加入我們啦啦隊的這個團隊所以在一個現場講得太空了一個舉例一個你說太有名有名有名到一個你都講不出來中信 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3025.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3029.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
我們去目的是要宣傳打詐反會選宣導還有那個反毒的這些的宣導委員你也知道在那個場合我們法務部就像剛才講說我們是做嚴肅的機關奇怪怎麼會去那個那麼有歡樂國球的那麼有興奮的一個場合 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3045.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3062.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
那個就是我們是希望透過這一種的一個歡樂我們的球迷那麼多而且我們還沒有設置攤位那個做一些比較更生活化的一個方式去去做一個法治的一個宣導讓我們結合這個活動更容易去更多人去接觸我們這些的一個精神你去應該跟他說我叫做法務部長我要發揮強棒我要打擊毒品 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3072.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3075.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
你若是老闆要玩瘋,你要玩瘋什麼?我不能說治療玩瘋哪一隊啊玩瘋這個詐欺,玩瘋這個毒品,玩瘋這些會選玩瘋會選很好啦,你若是老闆要去山鎮,要去山鎮你們這裡的詐欺啊,法務部長去其實可以講好多那這樣我下次自私給你解釋一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3096.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3102.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
我阿公要玩瘋 我要那個三振那個詐欺三振這些毒品 三振這些秘訣讓我們國家更好對於看到我們法務部跟我們整個不管是職棒或者職纜這樣的一個連結有這種場合我們其實在立法院裡面對於法務部其實各個政黨對你們監督也非常嚴厲但是這個監督裡面我們都期待法務部可以做出很好的一個成績 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3126.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3141.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
雖然有點斜槓有點反差但是還是非常開心看到說我們法務部去結合整個民間尤其是整個運動這樣的做結合是好事啦對你們整個業務來講的話是好事的但是對於今天整個預算的一個報告裡面有幾個問題又來救教部長就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3149.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3169.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
我們國家司法科學研究院的定位有幾個問題就是說你現在要改名就是說你的能力有沒有去升級1999年司法改革會議裡面說要強化法醫的鑑識的一個量能我看到了2017年的時候司法國師會議裡面要建立國家級的一個鑑識的一個制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3171.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3189.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
兩年前我們2023年我們就推動司法科學研究院那問題來了你這個研究院你到底是名稱升級還是你功能升級 制度 設備 人力這個部分你有沒有實時去做一個提升啊我看你這個預算裡面編了八千多萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3193.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3215.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
法務部你沒有看在司法法治委員會大家一直這樣尤其是台灣民眾黨也好啦 還是國民黨也好好像也你們K得滿頭包啊但是我們也必須要去肯認翁召偉還有我在當民進黨 我們在當召偉我們對於整個雖然大家嚴厲監督你們可是對於預算的部分喔你們講的有道理喔是沒有人去動你們是大力給你們做支持喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3215.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3221.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
那所以呢你說你原來這個8000多萬你預算規模你今年增加了18%你的案量裡面從3100多件又去提升了也去創新高可是你這個結案的天數同樣的你本來44.4你現在也到成變成很明顯的拉長50天所以我的問題就是說你現在整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3237.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3249.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
專任的醫師 四個你還要去跟長期 你要去靠一些兼任的嘛這所長 何官仁你很清楚的嘛你明天請假嘛明天請現在你假嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3251.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3271.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
還沒改所以我要問的就是說我們現在說都是超載那你超載以後我們現在談你超載沒辦法去改革你現在談升級你這到底是要擴編 未來你是要擴編如果人員你沒有去增加的話我跟你講你這個就是空轉我請部長你簡單的最後一個回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3273.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3292.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
跟委員報告,事實上本來是懷研就班就是三個業務組那現在我們會擴編為五個專業的一個單位五個啦那另外他那個還要增加一個司法科學審議會事實上是我們希望至少目前我們先把它做一個擴編一個擴編的一個方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3297.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3311.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
另外還有我們也有一個鑑識的實驗室的一個目的因為我們現在實驗室有好幾個監驗室但是各個獨立的我們希望說國家科學研究成立我們是做一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3313.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3333.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
一個在科學建設這樣成立一個單一的國家級的建設機關不要說現在以這個各自來散落在各個機關我給你結論啦,不然時間沒多少,我給你結論啦這個我們給你倒幾期啦你這個預算其實都很小啦在我們立法院看起來預算都很小啦但是立法院最在意的是說你攏了,你衝了有搞嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3335.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3337.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
你這套你把它衝下去完整不會你的實質功能你要把它給發揮出來好不好我認為這個部分啊應該去把它做一個完備啦你國事會議啊開那麼多座啊我們在立法院也講這麼久 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3351.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3379.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
看到這個預算規模我都覺得你要去把那整個制度去做一個完備那還差很遠那這邊我們再來努力第二個就是大家在談我看監察院很多的一個報告就是整個統一的一個制度這個其實有時候人權的保障裡面我們都會發現說還是停留在一個口號就是制度上有缺失你在訴訟上你在法庭上不管是你在檢察官在偵查或者法院在審判 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3380.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3406.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
那這個過程裡面,你如果發光或是檢測我問的位置,那些筆又聽不懂,這個案沒辦法審所以你這整個通譯的一個制度裡面,我看監察院有多次的糾正,說你沒有那個專業訓練你這套存在,沒有人去答應有時候你那個翻譯,你當事人文書的翻譯,當事人也看不懂那你原住民的部分,我看這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3407.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3426.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
在本院裡面很多原民的委員大家也一直在強調這個問題啦就是說有時候也沒有同意也沒有輸這個常常都影響到整個訴訟程序最後產生無限制的一些在那個地方浪費一些司法的一個資源所以我要請教的就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3427.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3446.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
你們看我們人的訓練的問題,那第一,你們有那個專職嗎?我看有的被告沒到,同意到,這樣也不算錢,那請委員給他五百塊我看監察院糾正你們這個,我也覺得有點不可思議啊那甚至於有一些都已經超出,同意的一個工作的一個範圍啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3448.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3461.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
所以這就是這個部門要怎麼制度化 把它導入一個比較專職的一個統一的制度不然你們要怎麼統一 我以前在開店的時候 我覺得要怎麼統一臨時工這個部分制度上你們有沒有想說 怎麼樣去完善不然監察院下報告 那個報告看你們有沒有參與 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3471.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3486.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
跟委員報告,事實上我們現在有一個特約的同意名冊這個是有外語、客語跟手語還有原語的那這些同意事實上我們跟委員關心像原住民這部分有40人涵蓋有12個組25種的語言那委員關心訓練的那個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3492.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3503.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
那的確這個的確是要再做一個更精進的那我們這部分落實司法禁用權那現在目前是基礎是4個小時那專類11個小時那總共是我意思就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3510.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3534.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
我們有這個制度 我們就把它真正去把它做一個充實啊不然立法院很多委員去關心把整個制度的一個建立那建立起來以後呢 有時候你感受不到檢察一直跟你們講啊 部長你也講啊司法的禁用權啊 沒有錯啊你就突然你 那有時候一句話說不對之後 整個人生翻錯料了人家一個人被告整個人生全部都毀掉啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3535.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3545.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
都也有可能所以制度方面你該充實人力的這個你必須你這個不能開玩笑矯正的我今天就說不夠了時間都不夠兩樁都要忙但是我認為我們法務部 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3550.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3564.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
提出來的這些預算規模其實根本就不大啦司法法制委員會絕對可以來支持但是我們也要求制度面的一個建制功能性的一個提升應該做到 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3566.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3566.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
接下來請陳昭之委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3599.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3602.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
謝謝主席 有請部長好 有請部長委員長博定台的外外好朋友小金剛 鍾瑞雄一直要逼問你最喜歡哪個啦啦隊隊員幸好你守口如瓶即便你心中有名單 不然講出來以後就無完無了的了這我不能去講說喜歡誰了部長我今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3624.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3627.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
今天我想跟您討論一個最基本的人權問題在一個人被關起來以後不管他是被羈押還是說服刑其實他還是有健康權跟醫療人權這一點部長您同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3641.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3647.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
這個我想每個國民不管是不是在就是其實在收容中我們認為還是有這醫療人權的一個保障好謝謝部長那部長近期的這個監察院報告你說我要做要用監察院報告他剛才小金剛也用監察院報告因為你們可能比較會在乎115年4月23號那個不幾天前點出來說小政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3663.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3664.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
這個報告你們同事應該都有那監察院甚至還說這句話說話比較長 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3682.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3695.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
法務部對相關會計務管理及督導作為尋屬流於刑事請問部長是否接受監察院的說法那你是否同意說監察院認為蔣正義的體系確實存在這些問題呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3698.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3724.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
我們要謝謝委員的一個指教那監察院的一些意見那我們也我們再來做一個我也督導那個整個矯正署有關你這個醫療的這個這個醫療的這部分的完善這邊我們再來做一個加強那這部分是不是我請那個署長來對就監察院的這個他做哪些的一個精進的一個作為做一個簡單的一個因為下面我還是有一些繼續相關的問題那個是署長嗎林署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3729.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3744.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
在報告你服氣嗎這份報告監察院的報告報告委員監察院的報告我們尊重我們內部也不斷的在做滾動式的檢討其實我們生活人的一個醫療的話我們都跟那個衛福部前有那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3746.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3772.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
這個健保特約醫院他怕意識到我們機關來做這個醫療門診目前的制度我知道我們大家都有理解但是現在就提出了一些注意但我知道很多事情不可能一步到位或是做到圓滿那我是不是可以就說他們這次提出來一些想法我大概就是您留在這個備詢台上我再來請教您好了那也讓部長也夠了解我不需要談個案但是很多事情醫學也是從個案到通案的 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3773.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3791.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
過去一段時間社會有關注 特殊關注因為有被報導柯文哲在收容期間的就醫安排當時我們就強調其實對每一個病人都一樣就生病的人你有正確的診斷才會有後面正確的一個治療那當時擔任這個醫療小組的趙景仁是台大的前權威教授這個謝炎陽教授指出 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3792.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3809.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
他說他的症狀 我們就不談個案症狀可能涉及多種嚴重疾病他不是監所裡面單一的一個一般的門診或醫務室可以處理的所以部長您認為矯正署的各個處所目前有足夠的醫療量能夠處理收容人跟受刑人的醫療問題嗎就是您認為是足夠的嗎這部分我 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3815.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3840.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
因為我們現在跟衛福部是有做一個合作這個合作那我想這部分我們會回去但那個也有那個問題因為我先生也負責過在衛福台北醫院的時候是跟這個北鎖是合作的那其實社會真正關心不是說哪一個人的健康問題而是說整個制度因為為什麼有人可以外醫不管是介護就醫 保外就醫那有人不行 那有沒有標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3841.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3848.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
部長 法務部有沒有一套全國一致的客觀評估標準還是說你現在是由各監所他們自己去做判斷的我們那個是 這部分是有一個制度的我們是有醫生的一個 醫主的這樣的一個這樣的一個制度部長 我問這個問題是因為監察院報告講得很清楚目前最大的問題之一是萬一流程缺乏明確的標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3868.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3885.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
那當時法務部也有回應你們會去建立客觀評估的標準緊急送醫的一個機制並深化定期聯繫的這個機制確保急重症的收容人能夠獲得醫療救護那所以我才想請這個部長是不是說明一下你們現在對這件事你們的回覆有沒有進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3888.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3910.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
事實上有一個矯正機關收容人緊急外醫的一個檢視表那這邊是有一個很明確的跟標準化的一個評估但他提出報告之後你們有做檢討嗎因為他一定認為不夠不好不足嘛所以他才會把這一點放在他的報告裡面啊他們說外醫流程就到外面去就醫流程缺乏明確的標準喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3913.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3919.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
這個是有明確的標準那委員關心的這部分我們會再跟衛福部我們這邊會再跟衛福部再做一個演算不會我們會跟衛福部再做一個開會我們再來做一個討論加強這部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3932.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3955.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
那什麼情況送醫誰來決定要多久要內處理這些關鍵問題其實都應該有一套清楚的規範如果沒有就會變成各監所做法都不一樣沒有這個就是有同一個標準這個就是有醫生看醫生專業醫師的意見因為檢察院報告裡面寫出很多案例耶就是說明說你們是還沒有一致的標準這個是有標準的有明確的標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3958.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3963.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
但是捐殘報告寫得很清楚 這些都是專家提出來的意見就請你們參考 第一個應該要思考內部管理規範是否合理是否合乎人權 時代不同了 很多地方都一樣即使受刑人 收容人 也要是就這個議題來討論第二個 其實沒有很多醫院願意負責這一塊你們很多大概都也被迫要去做 衛福部醫院尤其 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3982.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4001.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
因為耗費很多人力而且收益這個是有限就是整個應該是誘因是不足這是第二個問題第三你現在每年是用專案的方式補助嘛那你醫院終究會被整個醫院的營運成本人力它是會越來越高的它終究會被迫減少縮減服務項目因為誘因也不夠誘因也不夠但整體說來這個監察院的報告也說整體說來最大問題還是人力跟資源不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4011.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4031.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
所以這個部分如果說你們要做好這個事情我們也一樣啊在預算在這個都可以支持啊就是人力預算不足署長您了解今天的重點那個報告您應該有看到吧有那幾天前一星期前是嗎是是是我們都有拜讀全新的啊我們拜讀不過他偏重個案的情形是比較多的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4032.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4046.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
他偏重個案的一個描述但是你要有人去做判斷等一下最後我想有一些數字再請你們看能不能近期看我願意尊重你們的時間那作業時間我想要了解那對於監察院提出的這個建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4047.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4058.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
法務部就是你看到報告嘛你就不會把他放著嘛你就看基本上你是不是有一些要對應的做法你不可能不去理他那這個可不可能我先建議兩週內啦直接我們可以再討論有三件事情第一個緊急外溢的 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4065.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4081.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
觀察評估指標評估的頻率有沒有定更細緻化的明確標準作業程序公所屬的矯正人員去遵循如果有什麼時候開始使用這是第一點我希望放在裡面的第二個人力跟資源量能如何補上你們如果缺監察員說你們有缺 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4085.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4111.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
那什麼時候再怎麼補上你怎麼強化特約醫院的這個誘因怎麼想辦法讓他們跟你們有做好的合作第三個麻煩那個請你們去了解一下因為我過去從來常看不到這個數字我特別知道過去十年來受刑人從保外就醫出去之後到陰疾病死亡未回監這個比例的統計為什麼因為其實我第一張的投影片我就這邊有提到這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4112.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4132.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
私改會三個月連續收到三起監獄延誤送醫致死的案件的陳情所以我第三個東西是過去十年我可以有這個資料嗎受刑人從保外就醫大概判斷一定要送出去就醫了到他因為過世了因為疾病過世了所以他沒辦法再回監這個資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4133.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4142.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
我可以知道嗎 這個比例的統計 沒問題齁那這樣兩禮拜有搞不好兩禮拜 部長 署長說可以齁對 剛剛幾個點嘛你們要怎麼樣努力去改善你們人力資源怎麼讓這個醫院 合院醫院可以好好跟你們配合嘛不要隨意解說這個服務項目然後第三個我想知道過去有沒有這個狀況過去就過去 但是我們要知道說是不是因為延誤就醫造成的這些總統遺憾 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4161.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4169.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
因為所有收容人跟授權人他還是有他的健康權醫療權好嗎這個基本的醫療人權問題應該都有資料才對因為你們是會定期去對法外就醫的人去有一些調查報告訪視嘛這一定是資料是現成的嘛好 謝謝謝謝部長 謝謝署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4184.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4196.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
好謝謝陳委員那剛剛陳委員所關心的議題然後這個相關的所知那也請法務部到時候也提供給我們私委會然後每位委員都各一份好嗎好謝謝接下來我們請翁曉琳委員進行詢答 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4216.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4242.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
好 謝謝主席在這裡有請部長 正部長還有矯正署署長另外就是法治司的副司長好 有請部長對不起 不是 應該是叫做檢察司副司長 對不起好 有請部長 矯正署署長檢察司副司長 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4245.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4254.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
部長好 那麼我剛剛聽到莊瑞雄委員說您今天下午要到這個週季棒球場去開賽應該是去開賽嗎去開球嗎還是直接去開球參加開球的一個電影對啊 好像我剛剛稍微google了一下新聞您這個之前也曾經 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4266.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4291.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
去幫中信的直攬也去開球過吧這個最主要是因為我們好沒關係這個我當然也覺得說法務部能夠去做這樣的宣導也是挺好的是那不過就是說是在部長您去開球可是我們今天要談另外一個司法人球的問題也希望就是部長要能夠這個有關心我們有些 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4293.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4318.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
涉及到司法人球不斷地被貼來貼去的問題那麼我想昨天下午的新聞有一個新聞不知道部長您是否有看到就是講到有一位高雄的一位女士因為她之前喝醉酒然後在超商鬧事打傷了員工那麼之後檢察官在第一時間在偵辦這案的時候就申請羈押 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4320.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4341.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
在最近因為這個起訴所以就移審到法院那法院就不同意再繼續申請羈押然後檢察官就三度提起抗告都被駁回然後所以昨天這個高雄地獄的法官然後就做了一個裁定要求這位這個這位這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4346.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4367.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
這位女士以後每週三的下午兩點半要去向高雄地檢署的公訴檢察官去報告那當然這個新聞出來之後也引起輿論嘩然大家想說是不是這個法官做了很奇怪的這樣的裁定可是其實本席更在意的是說不只是今天我們看到這個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4370.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4380.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
有關於羈押裁定遭上級法院撤銷駁回之後那麼在高雄這個案子是三度都維持不羈押那麼最後雖然說 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4381.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4405.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
法官做了這個裁定大家覺得很驚訝可是事實上在數年前也曾經有發生過這個羈押是五度五官的案子在台北地檢署檢察官他有五度申請羈押都遭台北地方法院駁回然後又再五度的提起抗告那高等法院則是四度的發回這個案子一直到了第五次才駁回檢方的抗告 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4406.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4430.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
所以本席想請教部長的是說如果說一個羈押的案子可以到底一個羈押的案子可以抗告幾次以我們現在制度來講是一次兩次三次五次還是可以無限次沒有上限的一直抗告現在是以現行的法制是沒有限制那我想這個還是用個案的一個羈押的必要就從那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4432.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4443.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
個案看看就是再去檢視有沒有合乎到法律規定的羈押的一個必要就個案的來做一個認定是的當然就是說就現行的抗告制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4444.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4471.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
看起來的確是沒有自說的限制所以他會陷入一個無限循環的一個問題那當然我知道大法官其實之前也講得很清楚羈押應該是人身自由最嚴重的干預所以在處理羈押問題的時候必須要考慮到符合比例原則以及最後的手段性那麼就高雄的這個案子來說因為這等於是酒醉之後的犯案 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4472.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4489.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
那麼檢察官當然考慮到他之前還有些前科所以後來就申請羈押羈押也一段時間了那麼但是呢對於他在申請羈押法院後來不准然後又一次屢次的這個提出抗告這個部分來抗告又發回喔那麼我想就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4490.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4505.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
對於一般老百姓來講可能不太了解這實際上街的過程但是本席更在意的是說有關於司法制度的公正性跟橫平性我們基本上我們擔心的就是說司法不應該不只是錯判 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4506.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4520.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
最害怕的最令人擔憂的就是他們有一個終點當一個羈押案件可以抗告發回然後再抗告再發回那這個制度本身來說就出現了很嚴重的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4522.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4537.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
那之前包含本期在內也有別的委員我們有提出相關的修法認為說未來這個羈押抗告的次數是不是應該有所限制或者是說直接就交由上級法院自為裁定那請問部長您對於這個議題的看法是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4539.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4555.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
我們這個是最個案的話因為個案每個個案情節的一個不一樣但是以這個個案來講的話是高院是支持檢方的一個抗告他是認為抗告有理由而而發揮來耕採的那 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4558.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4583.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
那另外一個剛才委員有關心就是說是不是要有次數的限制那事實上這個有限制到一個監督權因為事實上有羈押的必要檢察官是有監督權是有表示意見可以做一個抗告我認為這個是一個檢察官行使在法庭監督法官的一個行使那我想這樣以這個個案來講它是有攻擊性的 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4585.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4612.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
那我想這個檢查那個抗告這個已經這次又提起抗告再昨天又提起抗告了4月29號謝謝部長因為我想繼續製度性的問題那我想這個個案這部分就是說當我們看到如果說是申請羈押抗告它變成一個是無限循環然後對於到底要不要羈押檢方跟院方互相這個踢來踢去那其實最後受影響的仍然是那個當事人所以呢本身希望就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4614.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4629.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
法務部這裡要能夠去檢討這個制度因為就像我說的不僅是我本席還有其他委員我們現在已經也提出了這個有關於羈押抗告的相關的修法這個法案應該是會積極的推進那麼我們希望說到時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4630.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4635.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
法務部可以針對這個議題好好研究我想這個議題我們就到這裡我再做一個補充其實現有之事有不是沒有終點那個高院可以自為裁定也就是說我們這一看高院認為說這個還是有道理 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4646.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4666.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
高院也可以自為裁定這也是本席所提的修法的方向最好就是由高院就自為裁定了所以你們也支持這個修法方向我想現行的法案應該可以無限次數的提起抗告其實那個次數不會無限次的下去就是以實際上的一個實務上的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4667.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4688.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
不過只要有提起抗告高院就可以自委裁定反而就有這個制度好聽起來應該法務部是支持的好那接下來呢我要再針對剛剛其實陳昭志委員已經有提到了就是近期我們監察院有提出一份糾正案那在這個糾正案裡面主要就針對矯正署以及多個監所 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4689.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4707.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
它接連發生了有醫療處置失當弱勢的收容人遭霸凌甚至是介護人員他涉嫌封祭不法等等這些嚴重的案件那由這些案例裡面其實這個案例其實還蠻多我整理起來大概有六種案例那麼在這個高雄女監呢當時是發現就是有 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4711.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4730.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
糖尿病的收容人他的血糖非常非常低結果都昏倒了然後也沒有人可以去幫忙而且當時也沒有緊急的使用像備用砂糖或正確的操作血糖機所以導致就是說是有這樣子的一個意外發生那麼也還有在鹿草的分間 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4732.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4743.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
一位收容人他跟人家衝突就發生就撞牆就撞牆之後倒地不起那這中間其實也有這個也有這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4744.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4769.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
監所的管理人員去巡視可是也沒有發現就還是其他的收容人通報之後然後才發現這個問題那在台北看守所同樣的也是有出現這種醫療處置不當的問題然後導致昏迷時間過久那麼在鹿草分間還有發生就是也有收容人他跟人家就是由拉扯打架然後導致就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4771.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4787.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
受到重傷因為跌到跌撞受重傷那之後身上也還出現了像入窗啊借窗啊等等啊這是代表說這個尖鎖的可能是在生活管理上面也都失靈那麼也還有像是武陵的外溢間有發生就是收容人 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4787.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4811.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
那麼跟其他的收容人然後發生有管制物品上面一些糾紛等等的所以像這些問題其實凸顯出其實我們的監鎖管理的確是出了很嚴重的問題不僅是在醫療上面那麼甚至就是在平時整個監鎖的管理都沒有很到位那麼也有發生就是說這封記人就是監鎖的 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4813.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4832.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
這看守所這個去突襲這個安全檢查然後也看到有一些收容人那麼甚至也有偷保管物品等等的那麼也有戒護人員違反勤務的規範那所以我想這邊請教部長跟署長的就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4834.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4859.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
對於像這種剛剛講的這種介護管理的問題那麼現在很多介護人員他也不是醫療專業那在你們現在的矯正機關縮容人緊急萬一檢視表當中的這種意識判斷你是不是都是用肉眼去判斷你沒有一個科學的一個輔助的工具去判斷對這部分的話是不是可以請部長或是署長來我請署長來回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4863.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4888.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
報委員 委員剛剛問到的都是個別的個案的問題其實剛剛提到是高齡女監的她的血糖過低的問題其實她一入監的話 我們都已經在監控她了她的血糖值都在我們監控的一個措施之下那可是為什麼還會出現這樣的情況呢當初是那個管理員 那是值班制的管理員她去那個夜勤的管理員 在值班制的她拿到那個血糖的檢測儀是故障的 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4889.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4915.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
那我們中央台的那個主任管理員從監視器看到說這個送人還算是一個正常的情形請他去更換一個新的那個的那個血糖的那個監測以來然後再給他試用砂糖的話他都慢慢的就恢復正常的其實血糖過低他其實很危險的很容易就是一下子休克就死亡所以說他一直都在我們監控之下會壞掉這不是代表說你們平常例行性都沒有去檢查啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4915.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4927.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
對然後剛剛講的像這種這個收容人在監獄裡面還會發生入窗戒窗然後也有些是倒地被撞傷了然後巡視人員去巡視都沒有發現我想這個不是只是單一個案這其實也凸顯出確實在監所裡面的很多的醫療處置是適當的你們的管理也出現瑕疵我認為說 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4940.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4957.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
監察院今天提出這個報告它已經指出了現在有關於預鎖的管理不當的問題我們矯正署這裡不能說我們只是尊重監察院這份報告更重要的是說你們要從這份報告裡面去了解你們要怎麼去改進 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4958.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4986.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
對 如果說你們沒有錯我相信以前的檢討委員他不可能去指責說你們有哪些疏失所以這個部分的話希望你們能夠積極的檢討然後看剛剛這個陳昭智委員有說希望能夠請矯正署這邊提供保外就醫的相關的資料這又讓本席又回想起就是有關於像是我們矯正署對待受刑人他也是雙標嘛像我們陳水扁 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4987.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5010.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
前陳水扁總統他就可以保外就醫十年他的身體健康狀況也很好就算他當時在監所的時候身體出現了狀況那本身也認為應該要重視受刑人的他的身體的健康他們的健康權仍然是不能夠被剝奪被忽略的可是醫好了之後總是可以回監 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5011.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5041.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
服刑吧繳證署到現在也都完全沒有作為那你對照起監察院所做的這份報告裡面提的這些受刑人他們所受到的待遇這真的是叫天壤之別也難怪大家會認為說是不是我們的法務部我們繳證署這裡就是都是權貴司法權貴的這個處遇本期這邊希望說法務部跟檢察署跟繳證署這裡能夠多多關心多多關心去處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5042.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5055.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
處理好有關於這個精索管理還有醫療方面的問題那接下來就是有關於預算的部分本席很快的再講其實矯正署呢每年基本上都有編列所謂的科技經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5057.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5073.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
要去強化智慧科技的安全升級那麼在這個之前也編了大概17億要去做科技安全網的建置計畫那麼在近期也還有一個叫做獸行人科技設備輔助監控示範的延續計畫它看起來你們編了蠻多錢是 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5076.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5082.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
之前是17億那麼最新的這個受刑人科技設備輔助監控計畫也編了這個幾千萬那麼但是呢我們看到其實還是出現了很多的漏洞像我們剛剛講的在外衣間適同作業的這個情況就是受刑人他可能去從事打掃或是這個煮飯這些作業的去做這些事務的時候他就跟其他受刑人然後中間有私下交易做一些這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5106.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5126.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
違法的一些事情那所以就代表說你們科技監控還是出了一些問題嘛出了蠻大的問題就沒有辦法去了解實際上的這個受刑人的情況然後包含受刑人在獄所昏倒你們也沒有發現對所以你們在做現在的這個系統你們到底你們重點是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5127.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5149.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
跟委員報告現在這個系統我們是改善我們的基礎設施把我們的那個建設系統都更數位化所以全部都我們要改光纖的傳輸跟那個數位監控的那個攝影機所以說我們現在是先所以你們有包含有增加攝影機嗎還是你們只是改善那個通訊傳輸那個基礎設施你剛剛講說提升到提升到光纜從攝影機到光纖的傳輸然後到我們儲存的設備到全國我們建設一個平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5156.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5178.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
可以從我們中央這邊就可以看到全國各機關目前的監視監控的錄影的狀態都可以而且可以回溯從錄影裡面可以看到各監所的話當初的話它的一個監控的設備的運作狀態的好啦反正總之本席是要提醒就是法務部還有矯正署就是說科技安全它不應該只是一個運輸人書上面的名詞你們還是要落實 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5179.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5202.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
今天也变了这么多的经费要去扩充或说是强化这个相关的科技监控的设备那就应该要好好的做而且不只是说你增加设备而已你这个相关管理人员他在科技操作上面的提升还有做未来然后如何让他们的管理能够更科技化更有效率 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5203.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5229.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
更人性化我認為說這是法務部跟棗證署必須要再加強的好不好所以請你們這個部分要特別要去進行檢討然後要好好的去把監察院所做的這份這個糾正調查報告要細讀然後重新重拾就是要好好的做一個檢討好的那以上謝謝謝謝翁委員謝謝部長署長還有副司長 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5246.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5263.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
那麼接下來我們有請張雅玲委員謝謝主席 我們有請部長好 有請鄭部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5267.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5290.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
委員早部長早我今天主要想要跟部長討論兩個問題有一個是有關於我們有一個新時代智慧檢查AI科技計畫另外一個就是跟小年矯正學校有關係的題目首先我先來問這個AI科技計畫因為我看到你們的預算裡面有編列但是我還是要提醒我們的部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5291.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5307.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
就是AI用在司法就要小心再小心因為一個不小心一個誤判出錯都可能影響的是一個人的人生部長應該是認同我的一句話而且這是一個輔助性的對 但是這個輔助性我就要想要來請教一些細節因為這個計畫內容裡面包含了就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5310.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5337.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
用AI自動產製案件量大重複性高的刑事案件結案書類像是我們最近有非常非常多這個詐欺的一些相關的案件所以會透過AI來自動生成被害人記錄還有訓練AI來分析筆錄建議偵查方向並且比對卷宗資料提供決策建議那我想要了解就是說當我們要做這個AI輔助計畫的時候我們是有 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5337.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5363.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
是怎麼樣形成這樣子的一個想法是我們看到了其他的國家有相關的案例或是相關的研究所以我們這一次才做這樣子的事情嗎各位報告這事實上是從111年就開始因為那個AI的一個運用的確是可以提升我們行政效率對但是現在是因為有哪一個國家嗎因為在我們沒有說用AI來取代所有書類的製作跟案件的偵查 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5364.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5376.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
那就是說我們也要運用因為的確是AI在因為這個是一個全球化的一個趨勢那我們有做一個示範我們現在做一個示範的一個計畫那另外就是說我們剛委員有關心到像那個我們那個詐欺的 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5381.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5402.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
我們現在目前就起訴的護表就是包括被害人跟車手取管那個護表那個護表事實上是我們說以我們現在的卷證的資料去把它提取出來的其實我想要關注的只是說因為我們現在其實看不到任何一個國家透過AI來協助對不對我們其實沒有相關的案例吧對不對我們應該是全世界第一個嘛它那個是用AI的像以前外國某個國家就是說他們用整個AI來做一個辦案因為這個哪一個國家這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5411.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5424.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
我自己是查不到資料沒有我是說有一個國家就我有報告要調查後來被那個國家禁止他是用案件整體用AI的用人工智慧來摘來取代所謂案件的處理那現在我們這個計畫內容我們是只有在一個一個在比較機械型的這部分用AI來做一個攻擊而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5433.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5448.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
這個還不是說不能盡信當然就是委員關係的這完全是要做一一的一個再來一個一個驗證我知道但是就是為什麼其他國家沒有做到連我們這樣子的程度都沒有因為大家其實都有一個擔心這是團體也有告訴我們就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5449.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5467.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
一般我們在行政輔助上面風險層級是低的但是在做一些辦案的輔助來說風險相對是高的因為我們其實有很多的機敏資料例如通訊資料、定位資料、金融資料或是網路活動記錄這些都會跟人民的隱私有關係如果沒有一個清楚的界限那科技偵查 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5468.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5493.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
可能就會變成打擊犯罪慢慢變成了擴大收集人民的資料所以是說只要開始使用其實風險就存在了那雖然說現在只是一個示範計畫我也有收到你們的回覆是說未來正式上線的時候會依照人工智慧法的一個風險框架來去做一個分析這樣子所以我也想要請教部長就是說因為其實蘇發布的AI風險分類框架其實已經公佈了 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5494.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5502.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
那未來大概預計何時法務部會依照這個框架來對於現在這個AI科技計畫來進行完整的風險評估呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5505.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5531.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
現在人工智慧基本法我們會依照人工智慧基本法來做一個風險的一個支付對啊 奧斯說什麼時候啊預計啊 因為現在已經公佈了嘛所以你們的排程大概是什麼時候還是你們這個計畫不是今年要上市我們這部分都有在做一個隨時的一個檢視啦那跟委員報告事實上我們這個這個計畫是什麼時候要上線啊你們預計在什麼時候要上線啊開始這個這部分是不是我要請檢查師傅好啊 可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5534.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5562.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
跟委員報告 目前它是一個三年期的科技計劃目前是在試辦 在四個地檢署試辦會蒐集四個地檢署試辦的回饋意見希望可以透過科技化的方式輔助甲官就機械性 事務性事務性的事情可以不要重複浪費甲官的人力所以這個是在115年是延續之前未完成的計劃所編列的預算嗎從111年開始就是三年期的現在是第二個三年期的計劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5563.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5591.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
對吧 是第二個三年期的開始嘛 對嘛那這個第二個三年期你們預計在什麼時候要開始呢我們就是目前開始就是都是第二年第二期的開始然後現在都是還在試辦當中那試辦的就像跟委員報告的就是我們現在就是希望可以深層檢疫的比方說像酒駕的書類 食用毒品的書類好 我懂你意思了就是說你們現在是已經開始了嘛因為延續性嘛 對不對是延續性嘛 好啊那因為其實過去沒有AI風險分類框架嘛因為過去書發部也沒有嘛那現在已經有了那是不是可以依據這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5593.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5613.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
框架來做一個完整的風險評估呢我們初步的研判我們有檢視我們覺得是不至於產生人工智慧基本法第五條所列的高度的風險目前研判是不至於那將來正式上線的時候我們會按照人工智慧的規定來處理那這樣子的話你把你們的評估報告送到我們司法法治委員會好不好好是謝謝委員什麼時候可以送給我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5614.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5631.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
如果一個月你們都已經做完了不是嗎評估都沒有問題為什麼要一個月初步的檢視評估但是要提供委員的要寫的再更完整一些那這樣要一個月嗎那應該只是強化而已吧兩個禮拜可以嗎好不好謝謝謝謝委員那再來就是也是一個提醒就是說因為其實AI |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5632.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5650.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
我們要來談這個AI偏誤的問題因為AI基本上它就是看我們倒給它什麼樣子的資料然後它就有可能會產出什麼樣子的結果所以倒資料這件事情就要非常非常小心所以我想要了解就是說因為我們司法的資料從來都不是中性的嘛對不對它有可能是 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5650.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5666.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
有哪一些案件經常被偵辦哪些族群經常被盤查哪些地區可能被列為高風險哪些人的說法可能比較容易被信任都可能放在這個資料裡面所以我想要了解我們現在在事辦裡面有沒有去做相關的偏誤測試呢檢測這個是就酒駕跟詐欺案件有做這樣的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5675.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5695.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
我們現在示範就是用酒駕跟詐欺案酒駕跟詐欺是嗎對好喔 那我想問一下就是說我們因為酒駕跟詐欺裡面可能也會稱實到不同樣態的被害人嘛可能會有兒少嘛 對不對可能也會有性別的這個部分那我們是不是會有一個外部就是邀請外部的專家一起來評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5696.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5714.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
我們這個系統上面會不會有可能因為這些人相對比較弱勢然後造成了他的一些資訊的偏誤然後或者是說可能他比較不善於表達然後就變成在AI的資料上面呢就讓他承受了更高的被標記的風險有沒有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5714.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5737.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
我想這部分跟委員報告其實我們現在AI是只是一個輔助的一個工具它是用我們現有的卷證資料去做一個解決溝機而已對 但是卷證資料就有可能會有偏誤因為大量的訓練之後所以我們現在才問說會不會有這個偏誤的測試這個還是做人工的一個在做最後還是要人去做最後的一個檢測 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5738.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5752.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
好沒關係那我們再來瞭解一下你們如何去做這個資料的序列因為我們這個AR的資料不是從外面不是從外面那個資料去收取的我們是現有資料因為我們現在用人工都是一一去挑去整理那這樣反而會錯誤 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5754.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5773.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
其實這個AI的應用可以讓我們這些的除了行政提供效率以外也那個正確性是做一個提高的這個我們沒有去從外面的那些資料去做對但是就算是我們的過去的醫療診斷資料在其他國家也是會擔心說這可能會有標記上面訓練所以最後有最後人工的確認就是人工的一個還要再做一個驗證 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5778.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5794.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
所以沒關係因為我想我們就約時間來了解你們如何去做這些資料的倒進去好不好你們怎麼倒這個資料你們這個流程是怎麼做好不好我們約時間因為我今天還有其他的問題要問好那再來就是說我想要問矯正學校矯正署謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5798.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5818.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
因為我們過去在談少年矯正學校其實常常把這個四個矯正學校的性常常都是一概而論一起來談他們的預算人力、儲育、寄訓等等可是這個四個學校其實落差有一點大像是名陽它比較是接近少年刑罰的一個執行其他三個比較是感化教育然後他們轉變成學校形態的時間也有落差對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5819.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5844.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
所以變成是說其實這四個學校可能需要的支持都不太一樣那我想要了解我們過去在編列預算的時候我們是怎麼去編列的那我們這次因為剛好去年也有被這個通案刪減了一千六百多萬嘛那你們又是如何的配置這個刪減是四個學校直接除以四一千六直接除以四然後就大家一起分還是你們是怎麼樣去分去分這個編列跟刪減的部分可以簡單說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5846.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5864.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
謝謝委員的關心其實去年我們被刪除1600多萬我們看各機關他的需求再去做一個平均的刪除大概會影響到他們機關的一些建築的維護一些設備的添購還有一些專業輔導人力的聘請那我們看各學校他的需求去做不一樣的一個刪減 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5866.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5882.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
那另外至於說我們三所感化教育的學校跟一所那個刑法制定的學校我們的事實是整體都包括在裡面我們看各學的狀況我們就平均分配的所以基本上你們就是以學校提出來的需求去做一些刪減或是編列對嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5884.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5903.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
好那我想要了解就是說因為我這次具體的時候啊那其實學校有反應就是說因為我們刪減的預算其實直接影響的是學生們這些我們是看敦品中學嘛就是直接影響到他們可以接受心理諮商輔導的次數但是我想有一個非常重要的重點是 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5903.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5922.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
因為這些孩子終究是要復歸社會我們的目標其實是要幫助這些學生回到社會但是如果我們去刪減這些心理支持輔導的次數的時候就會影響到他們未來離開這個學校之後會不會有可能再犯是不是能夠順利銜接這就是一個非常關鍵的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5923.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5948.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
所以我希望說未來我們在做刪減的時候當然我還是希望啦因為當天我也是有要求我們的矯正署要把實質的影響具體的提供到我們司法法制的委員的手上那我們所有的委員很清楚的知道你今天三的這筆預算到底對於實質的現場上特別是我們的少年們造成什麼樣子的影響那這份資料我知道是兩個禮拜所以應該是下禮拜會到那我剛剛也有聽到說 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5949.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5978.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
就是我們的主席他也非常關心我們的監所的一些人權所以我也希望說這份資料我想要再追加是不是可以對於監所的一個處境上面我們的去年的預算刪減實際上對他們的影響是什麼那這樣子我們的委員會接下來要做審查的時候大家會更清楚的知道說我們今天所關心的到底跟預算有沒有關係那我們在預算的刪減的時候或凍結的時候就要更謹慎小心可以嗎 這個是不是可以一併的來提供給我們所有的司法法制的委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5979.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5994.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
那接下來就是說在我們未來真的如果委員們下手就是還是有刪減的時候呢拜託可不可以不要去刪減到我們孩子的心理諮商跟特教支持好不好可以嗎好謝謝好謝謝張委員那接下來我們邀請審判會委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6014.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6038.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
主席我們請部長好有請部長委員早部長早我想我們今天是有關於這個我們這個法務部的這個今年度的這個預算的相關的這個審查收支部分的報告那我想首先我大概就幾個我們法務部我個人比較關心的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6040.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6056.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
首先這邊有這篇新聞稿,應該這個事情部長知道了,就是在這個月,我們北檢的法警出包,所以讓他直接進行離開,事後再逮捕 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6061.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6084.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
但是我們看到這個紅字不能標出來目前委派督導主任進行調查全案依刑法163條公務員縱放或這個便利脫逃罪來調查這個我們在這個月我們其實有針對我們法院的法警相關的這些制度我們有做過專案的會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6086.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6110.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
那今天這個部長來,我們想就我們目前的這些高檢署、地檢署我們這些法警的配置,以及相關的權責問題來跟部長做溝通其實這個法警,你看剛剛我們看的那個新聞法警必須要面對,他如果有這樣子的疏失,要面對刑法公務員重放或便利脫逃罪,這樣子的罪責的追究 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6111.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6140.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
但是事實上我們法警的這個行使職權的法律依據卻非常薄弱這部分這個我們警察一般的警察有這個警察他的這個一般警察的職權行使他有這個警察職權行使法作為依據那目前這個在各這個高檢署及其他各地檢署的這些法警他的法律依據是什麼部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6142.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6147.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
它這個裡面就是一個行政規則就是一個台 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6148.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6171.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
就是一個執行 法警執行職務隱形之域事項裡面的一個當作他的一個職權的一個依據對 他其實法警 法警職務的法律依據是法院組織法法院組織法授權的定的這個實行規則第二三條 第三項這個他是就地方法院那第69條在准用我們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6174.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6188.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
高檢署跟檢查分署最高檢查署再準用法院的罰警設置然後在這個第23條第三項他在授權其管理辦法由司法院會同行政院定制 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6189.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6217.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
所以我們現在地檢署的這個我們這個各檢察機關的這些罰警他負擔了這麼大的這些剛剛講的這些包括刑法上的責任那他也有許多包括他的職權包括還要辦理這個拘提搜索逮捕解送體解等等這些強制行為但他的法律依據卻是只有法律法院組織法所授權的行政辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6219.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6224.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
這個你要部長我們是不是應該要檢討檢討法警的職權行使的依據我們是不是應該給他法制化的做更強的法制化的依據這部分我請黃正志來回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6238.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6260.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
各位報告這部分目前當時是一個行政規則規範在法未接的部分現在法院處置法是司法院主管的法規司法院現在已經在修這個法院處置法就法境的職長、職權、職等相關的編制它做一個同案性的規範所以目前正在修法當中市長這個按照這個釋字第535號 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6266.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6284.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
所謂依法行政原則行使職權應該以作用法為依據作用法為依據那現在的作用法依據在哪裡我們未來要怎麼樣當然現在目前它是組織法詳細做規範那最主要的是在行訴法上在作用法上是行訴法上最好的行訴法上落法令的依據是最好 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6285.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6289.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
這部分我們部長我們法務部是積極來做這個給予法警執行職權的法律依據我們主動來做好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6296.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6322.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
你這個法警你要負擔這麼大的責任但是我們這個法律依據放在那裡你現在是要用法院組織法再下去規範它還不是作用法啊你按照釋字它就是應該以作用法為其實這樣才是依法行政嗎理論上它應該作用法 刑訴法規範那我們會跟司法院來延長是不是院警都會碰到這個問題對最好是在刑訴法做一個規範我要談的重點就是這個就是你要給這些法警 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6323.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6335.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
行使這個職權的法律依據,你應該要用作用法來做啦你現在用法院組織法這樣子是不行的啦這個好,這個是他的職權依據,次長你先請,剩下再跟部長溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6339.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6355.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
剛剛講的是他的職權的法律依據那以我們目前法警的 我看我們各檢察機關法警的人力現在這樣的人力跟得上我們司法的需求嗎我這裡有統計 從108年到115年 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6362.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6381.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
我們的這個預算原額,就看預算書裡面的預算原額從646人,108年646人到這次提出來115年的這個預算書他的法定原額是735人這個,今年的預算原額跟去年預算原額看起來就只有增加12個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6383.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6391.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
這樣子我們的偵查案件 我就實際來統計以這個台北地檢署為例 台北地檢署這個他從108年的案件從45萬件 現在到將近70萬件 69.4萬件那這個增加就增加25萬件 但是他的人力 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6409.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6427.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
人力這樣子計算起來一個法警以台北地檢署來說一個法警要面對所應對的案件要超過三千件其實超過三千件所以這個有關法警人力的部長你要不要做一些說明還是有什麼樣的規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6430.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6446.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
剛剛委員報告 事實上我們從109年到114年有5年的增援 事實上罰金有增加到78人的確是我們業務的膨脹 包括打砸 反毒等等的業務非常膨脹 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6447.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6464.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
事實上不是只有法警缺我們包括檢察官檢視官書記官全部都缺法警這部分因為的確是非常的一個辛苦所以我們現在有用保全的部分來取代部分的一個保全更薄弱了你法警的法律他那個有些因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6466.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6487.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
一些門禁的話以前是門禁就是由法警來擔綱那現在是用保全的來做一些這個保全他沒有法律授權他的這個強制執行但是因為其實包括法院跟檢察署就是因為法警都不夠所以就用保全的這部分來做那部分來做一個的確是委員非常了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6487.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6510.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
好 這個我很了解啦 但這個部分我是覺得我們應該要規劃了不能夠長期 你現在給保全保全那完全沒有法律上的執行議題我們再來爭取預算嚴格 但是我也希望說我們能夠那人力配置的部分還有問題喔 我這裡 這個部長你看我這裡舉出來 我們的福建高等 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6511.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6540.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
檢察署金門檢查分署總共幾個法警我記得一位一個啦一位整個金門一個法警其他就是有些用保全的來但是按照你們的這個台灣高等檢察署及所屬各級檢察署的法警執行職務陰刑注意事項裡面的第十點你們說解送人犯在兩名以下者應該要派解送法警要派兩人光這一條你金門就做不到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6541.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6564.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
這邊如果有人犯的話,我們會請金門地檢來協助對啊,壓解,光壓解人犯你們自己規定要兩個人壓解結果你只有給他一個罰警謝謝委員關心這個罰警的人力不足問題這邊我們來努力,我們再來爭取預算原格的確是我們預算原格有些真的這個法定原格都到天花板了 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6565.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6586.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
好,這個部分我請部長要重視的,不要放在那裡,反正法警坐實了,他出事的要用刑法辦他然後要給他一個法律的職權依據也沒有,人力的配置也這麼吃緊,他們的職務這麼重然後你用保全,保全根本就沒有法律給予他任何職權的依據 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6588.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6598.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
好部長這部分請我們到時候在預算審查的時候有關於相關的這些罰警的這些預算原額的部分我們再來討論那另外 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6600.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6615.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
這個我針對廉政署啦再來針對廉政署廉政署這個我看我們廉政署的這個在預算書上面所提的這個工作計畫有廉政業務的工作計畫計畫內容裡面第四點提到了說要督導政風機關要這個收報機關政風狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6621.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6631.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
其中有一個重要的很特別的叫做推動食安廉政平台共同執行食安集合會同參與及收集食安情資食品安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6635.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6650.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
這個部分我們包括 請問這個包括哪一些稽查跟查核的措施 有關試案的部分是 那跟委員報告 有關於試案平台我們政風這邊扮演的角色 主要是協助情資的收報 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6651.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6678.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
還有會同來稽查那食安它食品安全的稽查它的行政財處原則上還是有各機關他們的全管單位來主政譬如說像農業局或食藥處還有市場處等等那我們這邊正風過去稽查我們稽查學術市場主要的稽查項目有幾項一個是有沒有那個保密洩漏 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6680.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6707.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
有沒有違反廉政倫理那有沒有進行正當的程序那有沒有人身安全的一個疑慮這個我們都會回來都還會填一個表因為你們寫在你們的工作計畫裡面食安廉政平台我認為是很重要的工作所以我就要了解說那你們到底有多少預算在執行這個食安廉政平台跟這個食安稽查會同參與 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6708.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6726.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
只有找不到任何一筆預算跟委員報告現在實安平台編在中央業務裡面但是卻沒有任何一塊錢的預算在做這個實安稽查平台因為你們這些預算全部都是由各單位去編不是由你們私人我們自己連署它的業務費還有各機關的正鋒他們的業務費去營資的 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6729.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6750.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
對 你就編到各機關裡面去啦你們自己根本有關於食品安全你們就是我就沒有看到預算那你們這個整個這個所謂推動食安廉政平台的這個實施計畫我看這下面還分成兩個層級喔分成這個廉政食安廉政平台之下你們還設了這個食安廉政工作小組 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6752.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6760.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
一樣沒有任何預算那這個你們的這個按照你們食品安全年任工作小組實施計畫裡面經費支應寫說執行本小組專案任務所需經費由小組成員隸屬機關年度預算去支應 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6769.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6787.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
我們是居於督導 廉政署是居於督導的一個角色 督導政風業務的一個執行那政風的人他配置在各機關其實你們這個就是會同稽查啦 其實所有的大概就是所有的這些食品安全的這個相關的稽查工作你們應該要會同陪同會同去稽查 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6788.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6810.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
但是你們會同稽查之後最後廉政署你整個在整體的這個制度責任上面看起來我看不到什麼樣明確的分工我有跟你們索取你們的這個成果啦歷年的成效啦那歷年的成效你們有給我就是有關於你們說我們的成效是這樣啦有關食安廉政情資 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6811.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6831.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
你們追究刑事責任的有11件就從104年你們算從104年5月到115年3月那刑事責任的有11件行政責任的有3件澄清相關責任的有257件請問一下組長這什麼叫做澄清相關責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6832.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6861.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
這個就是我們有收到檢舉之後 那我們的政風單位他去查去查 結果大家都沒有責任查了之後認為他沒有違法沒有違法齁 所以我看你們這樣子 情資總共271件裡面大部分都是沒有責任的啊只有刑事責任11件 追究行政責任3件從104年到115年的11年耶這個是針對廉政的部分 就是公務員的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6862.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6880.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
那你們這個我還看你們的這個對不起時間我最後一點時間我看你們有一個這個實案稽查廉政服務紀錄表這個紀錄表這是由誰填寫我們有一個工作小組我們那個同仁去稽查正夢同仁去稽查回來之後他會填載 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6882.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6898.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
另外在現場還有另外在田場按照你們的這個廉政工作小組食品安全廉政工作小組的執行注意事項裡面你們說小組成員會同參與食安稽查如果這個你們僅屬於外部的輔助協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6900.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6925.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
你們如果遇到這個遇到這個拒絕質疑質疑或者是拒絕配合你們原則上予以尊重也就是人家不讓你們進去你們就不進去這是你們定的原則那如果人家不讓你進去你不進去你要他如何去填寫前面的這個表因為主要這個實案的稽查他的權管還是各個那個機關他的一個相關的單位那我們是會同 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6925.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6948.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
我知道你們是會統是聯合稽查對聯合稽查你們寫在你們的這個聯政署的這個重要工作內容之中他那個委員報告他那其實聯政署是一個政策的指導單位他認為這個實案的政策很重要所以他會指導函會給地方政府跟那個包括那個主管機關他們去規劃去做執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6950.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6958.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
所以但是你們的這個工作你們要這個會同稽查的人他要負責填這個是實際負責稽查的那個執行單位去做填寫的去做一個稽查的一個結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6964.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6988.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
對 就是由我們會同的這個政風人員填寫嘛對不對對 它那個不是聯政組出去喔是因為有業管單位的譬如說衛福部或地方主管機關它有的政風同仁對 有他們的正同因為稽查權是在那個主管機關嘛對 我要講重點說它要陪同 它要負責填這個食安稽查聯政服務紀錄卡對 它這個是依照聯政組的一個指導指導的要求 督導的來填寫 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6992.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7012.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
你們要求他原則上予以尊重這個我覺得你們就是在報告在全責上面寫的很重要但是實際上看起來最後的結果這11年查了刑事責任的11件行政責任的3件我覺得這個是有值得檢討的地方啦我希望說能夠是不是能夠這個我 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7016.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7029.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
請問這個就這個現場包括這些政風人員那目前是不是有明確的SOP他的權責規範他的工作指揮關係他的權限的界限我希望你們能夠提分報告給我好不好好謝謝好謝謝沈委員接下來我們有請范雲委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7051.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7053.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
有請部長 謝朝偉委員好部長早安我今天是要針對刑法的妨礙性自主罪章能不能夠改採積極同意 跟您討論是部長應該知道 現在的教養趨勢 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7072.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7092.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
越來越重視不管是兒童或者是甚至包含就是青少年大人他們的自主意願比如說以我們這邊看右邊這個是2020年衛福部的社家屬的性別平等教育的教材就直接告訴大家身體是我自己的 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7092.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7118.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
那上面的標題是我說可以才可以那我們也看到現在的教育會教導小朋友說可不可以跟你一起玩那你要等到對方說可以才能一起玩可不可以坐在你旁邊也是可不可以借你的玩具也要得到對方的同意那我們可以一起吃飯嗎當然也要得到他們的同意那日常大小事都需要徵詢對方的同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7119.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7132.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
當然信也應該要徵求對方的同意啊那部長想請問您就是在信這個事情上您認為要不要徵得對方的同意就跟吃飯借玩具一起玩一樣謝謝委員關心這個一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7139.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7161.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
那事實上這個有關於妨礙性自主罪那個積極同意權這部分那跟我們現在當然我們現在的過程要件的呈現的方式是不一樣的以前是自主不能抗拒那個強制自主不能抗拒那後來在民國八十八年有修正文字就違反了醫院就來保護這個性自主權 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7162.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7180.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
那我想醫院的話很多的方式不是說我很明確的跟你講說我不願意他只要有身體的動作或一些的判斷他是不願意的他是沒有同意的那我想這部分在一個過程要見應該是有他的一個該當性了 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7180.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7197.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
那所以部長從你剛剛講就是受害者必須要表達出譬如說身體的動作證明他是不願意的那這個不就是跟我們的教育趨勢是不同嗎教育趨勢是說你要得到人家的同意才可以借人家的玩具 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7198.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7226.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
你現在沒有得到人家的同意甚至那個玩具的擁有者喝醉了然後你就因為他沒有辦法證明他不同意在你們的法院裡頭這個人就可以把他的玩具拿去玩您覺得這樣合理嗎像委員提的就是玩具如果說他當然沒有爭取到同意那直接就拿去拿去當然是不是就是一個的確是在一個禮貌上的確是只是禮貌嗎這個法律上沒有問題嗎玩具的一個問題那小朋友去拿 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7227.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7253.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
玩具就是別人的擁有物對但是這樣的話因為有不符合所有的意圖這樣要成立的一個其他的所以玩具一定要得到人家的同意身體不需要嗎委員有提到就是說我們是不是把一個他的不願意改成要積極的一個同意的一個同意權那事實上這個的確是一個很大的一個不同的一個思維很大的不同意很大的改變 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7254.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7268.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
那個是一個改變那這部分是不是這部分的過程要建是把它說違反意願改成說我要同意同意那怎麼去一個呈現那其實以目前來講的話維也醫院是有用客觀的情懷去綜合判斷的我剛才我講的那當然就是綜合判斷的一些的 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7273.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7292.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
這個客觀的證據對不對是不是就把責任變成是受害者必須要證明自己有抗拒有怎麼樣他如果喝醉了被性侵他沒有辦法提出證據他沒有辦法證明他有抗拒他身體並沒有動我想這部分委員關心這個問題這個的確是要為基礎我想我們就會提出帶來行修小組來做一個討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7299.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7328.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
所以您也認同就是說我們可以去討論可以討論還不一定認同但是可以討論這個當然是可以做一個行修就一個討論因為這個是還是要廣大各界的意見好那我今天就是跟您講各界的意見像您講的您非常的了解目前的妨害性自主的定義以刑法2A1條是必須要就是其他重點在違反其意願之方法而為性交者 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7329.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7351.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
所以他把這個構成要件的責任放在被害人身上被害人必須要有證明他有抗拒就像您剛講的身體要有反抗等等陳昭如台大法律系的教授就講到這個還是一個不能抗拒的幽靈如果你有機會抵抗不抵抗你就沒有辦法讓這個性侵罪成立 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7353.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7377.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
我想您剛說要聽各界的意見從2012年起婦女新知基金會就已經開始倡議這個定義應該要改成積極同意現代婦女基金會2017年也倡議Only yes means yes沒有同意就是性侵而不是說沒有抗拒就不是性侵這完全不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7378.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7387.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
因為是舉證責任在誰完全不一樣那立新基金會這些都是不一樣的基金會不一樣的婦女團體2018年還舉辦國際研討會那在場的婦女團體都大力倡議瑞典也有積極同意權討論台灣是不是可行 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7396.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7413.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
您說各界這邊我們看一下國際的例子剛剛是國內的倡議瑞典2018年就修法了性行為必須出於自願不能再以暴力或脅迫為構成要件採積極同意模式Only yes means yes |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7414.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7443.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
法國也在去年通過修法因為他在一個法國馬松性侵案件明定未經同意的性行為就構成性侵正式把同意納入刑法定義條文指出同意必須是自由給予知情具體事前而且可撤回的並強調不能以一方的承諾或未反應像我們剛講的喝醉酒他就沒有辦法反應你不能以這樣就推定為同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7445.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7473.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
國際不是這樣連日本日本還沒有到這麼的積極同意可是呢他兩年前都修法明定不同意要件他是更嚴謹的譬如說服用酒精或藥物就沒有辦法表達不同意沒有給予對方表示不同意的想法的時間這個就是所謂的不同意還有要件也越來越趨向所謂的積極同意了 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7475.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7488.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
歐洲45國簽署的伊斯坦堡公約也告訴大家積極同意必須基於自由意志所以我是覺得這應該是時間了1999年的確修法有了一點進步 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7491.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7508.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
可是違反意願這四個字還是在討論被害人有沒有拒絕當時為什麼不立刻報警當時為什麼身體沒有表現出不願意等等造成被害人的二度傷害可能很多人嚇到了沒有辦法反應 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7509.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7527.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
那積極同意是在討論一方有無取得另一方的同意你有事先詢問他嗎你在怎麼樣情況下他在怎麼樣情況下跟你說同意你怎麼確定對方真的想要跟你發生性行為他是在強化性自主的同意權 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7528.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7550.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
那也要跟部長講其實我們的最高法院已經白紙黑字在慢慢改變了這個定義的內容你看這個2021年的任何人要與他人發生性關係之前必須要得他人民事同意才可以否則就是違反意願的性侵害犯罪行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7551.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7577.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
所以他在判決上已經直接把民事同意就是願意這個事情等同於他的判決的內容所以到目前為止有165件判決援引這個觀點那可是呢這個最高法院的2021年的判決還不夠普遍以我們看到的報紙新聞您看一下這個是今年3月的新聞 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7578.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7600.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
一個喝醉酒的就是女性被性侵後來檢察官以他沒有求救沒有外傷不起訴加害人或是行為人那家屬出來抗議律師就要求是不是能夠檢察官是不是看看有其他的條文的趁機性交等等所以這個法條讓受害者 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7602.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7631.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
像這種喝醉酒然後他認為他被性侵的完全可能落入沒有求救沒有外傷所以我想從婦女團體2012年提出到現在已經14年了法務部可不可以動起來可以研議嗎有這麼多的國際例子這麼多的國內的婦女團體呼籲了14年那是不是可以來研議積極研議積極同意的定義的可行性好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7632.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7639.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
這部分我們會請法務部的刑法修正小組來討論這個議題因為我們裡面有實務界跟學術界來做一個討論這個實務界跟學術界的性別比例是多少可以告訴我們嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7653.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7678.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
跟委員報告目前那個行收委員的男女比例大概接近1比1那很好那希望也能夠有相關的性別議題的專業一起參與討論好嗎也有性別議題的委員在裡面那多久可以給我一個相關的報告呢這個還要再招會那個是不是我們請那個政治因為他是主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7679.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7708.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
我是行修召集委員會主席因為這個涉及到我們要蒐集相關的立法例我已經幫你蒐集了很多了當然就是說原則上我們委員會是每個月召集一次它有一定的排程所以它不是說今天就可以排入更何況它有立法例的研究或相關的實務見解的蒐集那你知道性侵案現在就是說已經累積一年會多少然後已經在台灣譬如十年內有幾件嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7711.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7732.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
是非常非常多的我看到的數字是十幾萬所以它是一個非常破戒的一個人權的議題各位報告我們目前的過程要見是違反意願嘛跟積極的統一當然我們現在實務上透過一個透過一個一個司法實務上的見解去形成是剛剛委員也提出來有些最高法院大概也達到同樣的目的 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7733.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7752.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
可是我剛剛給你今年三月的一個新聞一個九歲的女性受害者然後檢察官認為說因為他沒有反抗然後家屬抗議律師起來請用別的法條等等還在找一個法律幫助他所以你這個定義就限制了這群人他沒有辦法伸張正義嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7753.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7780.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
我意思是說目前的構建要件底下事實上透過實務上見解的形成也可以達到剛剛那你們修法的時候為什麼要透過實務的見解當時修法有這種檢察官當時修法是民國88年到現在畢竟30年前的修法現在時空已經不一樣了現在的倡議是積極的同意的倡議好那我們倡議了14年了可以積極討論我們刑事協調組就是要解決這種困境把目前這30年來的見解做一個研討那我剛剛只是在問說多久我可以得到報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7782.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7797.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
我們要排入我們的一層那不能還要半年吧兩個月可以有個初步的報告嗎對 我們也許我們再下週 下次就來討論好 那兩個月內我可以有個初步的報告好不好看你們的初步的進展好 謝謝好 謝謝范園委員接下來我們有請賴市保委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7814.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7820.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
謝謝主席以及各位先進有請保護部的這個部長 鄭部長好 有請鄭部長國研好部長你好那麼有一個會議叫做國際的兩公約第四次國家報告國際審查會議台灣好像這裡 你是團長對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7842.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7846.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
他是那個你是團長喔那個張師長師長是團長部長是團長啊部長是團長啊對不對他是承辦師啊來有人跟我反映所以把這個表列出來給立法院的時間不錯給監察院時間也不錯監察院有人選的齁結果單位一樓框啊我現在全部沒有全部列完後面還有第二配置第三配置 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7872.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7875.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
每一個單位給1分46秒 還是要說什麼啊1分46秒 每一個都是1分46秒啊你這個叫糊弄人家啊 要不然你就不要給這麼多單位啊不然怎麼每個單位給1分46秒 這到底是怎樣啦是什麼是 一上來打個招呼 政府長你好啊就下去了 1分46秒 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7894.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7917.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
我請那個陳辦事長來市長好 委員好 我跟委員報告一下這個部分是 為什麼這樣第一個是他們參加是可以報名讓他們來參加那因為參加的團體非常的勇於太多那所以說後來其實後來我們有一個召開有一個說明會有民間團體的這個委員他有做一個說明就說各個這個團體他們可以去結合 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7918.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7924.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
前面第一個就有四個單位結合你乾脆你就是說要結合乾脆這樣子比較不然的話這個看起來是消遣人家嘛你可以列出來agenda列出來你看到消遣人家給人一分四十六秒我上去講開始你好我好就下去了就變成這樣還是要給他一點發言權啦因為這個部分我們還是尊重那些國際 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7945.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7952.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
那這個不是 我要問的重點 部長您能看喔 這個計畫要花多少錢這個現在838萬對 快1000萬囉這個請問去年有沒有辦這個是幾年才一次對 四年才一次 去年沒有辦 前年沒有辦沒有 這個四年本來就是對 我知道 我現在跟你講就這個這一筆錢根本預算沒有省 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7974.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7985.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
你怎麼可以用呢 我都列出來了這個錢八百多萬 八九百萬根本我們都沒有審耶而且這是新興計劃喔因為去年沒有辦 前年沒有辦這是新興計劃這不是舊的計劃抓四年 四年編一次每年審慮算我們很假 我這次編五年我們立法院都不要審哪裡有這樣子的 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8004.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8029.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
這個部分是屬於我們的法定義務就是說在這個人權會議裡面他每四年就必須辦一次人權我們要撰寫人權報告然後讓所有的政府機關包括民團他們的平行報告所以這個錢是要四年前的錢不是啊是你這個錢啊每四年要辦一次要省錢對啦是這個錢啊這是去年的這今年的預算啊今年的預算在這裡啊沒有省啊沒有省這不是信息計畫你怎麼可以用呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8030.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8033.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
他是刑事機關怎麼可以用呢所以是我們的規定你不可以用這個錢喔你要用你的預備金可以你去用預備金 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8045.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8070.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
來來來 這個錢怎麼用我們都沒有審欸 你怎麼可以用呢這跟委員說明一下因為這個計畫是編在我們一般行政的原來的辦理法制及兩公約人權的業務向下阿沒有審阿 為什麼還沒有審阿依照預算法54條的規定在上年度的執行處的範圍所以你是留用了啦不是留用 是控管在上年度執行處的範圍我跟你講喔 等一下我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8071.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8072.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
現在死刑辦還有多少人 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8088.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8094.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
目前確定是三十五三十六吧已經執行一個死亡一個死亡不是執行你執行一個是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8104.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8130.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
部長是不是執行一位嘛你執行一位嘛後來又死一個嘛所以我本來36歲死掉一個35歲那有的高達70歲了你現在怎麼處理啊請問你現在怎麼處理啊死媳婦你怎麼處理啊你還替她再上訴非常上訴加上走憲法法庭還怎麼樣 偷因為民進黨政府就是要廢死啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8132.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8137.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
如果廢死我就就執行有一位執行一位執行你可以看喔這個你可以看剛才翻到第一頁啊翻到第一頁你原來的團體你看到你們這裡面的推動廢死啊台灣廢死推動聯盟啊就是這個啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8154.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8172.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
你們這個活動就在支持支持廢食啊就很清楚啊你今天真正的想怎樣這就是啊的確因為目前還有一些的救濟程序還要再做一個處理啦那這個處理那這部分目前都是還在現在其實這個社會其實這個社會啊不能夠容忍像炸雞飯等等我們我們在這裡提出的邊形啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8183.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8210.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
社會迴響很好的部長你有支持編刑嗎這個編刑這部這個已經在行修我們在本部的行修小組有討論那這部分是才保留的一個意見所以不支持這部分是我們是比較因為這個有疑慮違反兩公約還有一些違反兩公約兩公約是歐洲的啊你不要忘了我們的政策歐洲國家沒有歐盟啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8210.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8220.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
歐洲國家沒有那個邊形對啦我知道你就是follow歐盟啦但是不要忘了講廢死就是歐盟在講廢死的美國都有死刑啦美國沒有邊形對我知道美國有死刑啦對不對所以以現在來講不要忘了川普這一任上來是什麼他簽了一個14173號的行政命令要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8237.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8241.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
政府的部門終結第一頁的優待政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8242.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8270.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
第一愛啊 你知道第一愛了齁就是所謂的多元 平等 包容等等這個就更離譜了那川普一上來說 這是民主黨的東西我不要 統統不要以性別來講的話 多元性別他也不要以未來就是男生女生川普是這樣子啊 我們現在抱著川普的大腿問題這個 現在變成我們分開了這頭跟著川普 身體跟著歐盟變這個樣子部長你要說什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8272.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8288.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
目前是確定有時間有一些的救濟程序還要再做處理那這部分如果終結的話我們就依法處理嘛依法處理我問你這個啦就是川普現在的走向走回保守路線 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8290.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8316.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
不再走回不再像過去這樣子說非常的liberal這種的做法法務部怎麼看我問你這個事情這部分我們就沒有研究因為我們還是沒有我們目前還是沒有廢除死刑這個死刑還是在執行我們跟美國的那個美國也沒有廢除也是執行死刑我們目前也是有在執行有執行死刑的案子最後一題了齁我跟你講一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8320.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8325.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
要我們的檢察長在不在要台北檢察長王檢察長是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8332.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8342.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
這個事情啦 北檢要興建北檢業務大樓十幾層就在中正區 澳區中華路那裡車水馬龍當地的里長 當地的通風團隊你們拒絕溝通他已經跟我們的法治委員會陳情了好幾個 也找我們的招委 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8352.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8375.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
檢察長要去溝通啊是里長帶頭反對啊我就跟你講喔你如果沒有溝通裡面因為會影響動線裡面裡面你知道一個一個現在你說檢檢察大樓什麼要搬到那裡的話未來的交通一塌糊塗啊你們都規劃也沒有跟當地的人講然後這個這個當地怎麼講你們都不聽就是要改 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8378.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8407.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
跟委員報告這個不是事實事實如此實際上我們非常積極的跟里長進行溝通其實早在111年的時候當時前立委林昶佐委員他就曾經召開過協調會然後我們在112年我們不管說是管縣的遷移或者是地質的專探或者是我們進行拆除工程我們全部都有邀請里長到場而且讓他表示意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8408.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8437.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
那另外就是說我們在去前年跟去年當中我們也多次去拜訪他而且也不斷的跟他進行意見上的溝通甚至都有一些的LINE的一些記錄我們都有保留那另外我們在114年的10月份我們還召開了李明說明會但是是里長他不進來他要在門口陳情那我們也是去接受了他的陳情書那另外呢我們在今年的4月28號 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8438.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8450.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
我們本來就要 再要召開一次的李明說明會但是呢 里長他也表示反對 他希望我們不要召開所以這並不是我們不願意溝通 相反我們非常積極地進行溝通這個我們的趙委也知道這個事情 這個事情好好處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8456.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8477.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
好不好 引起當地很大的民怨引起當地很大的民怨 因為那個地方是鬧區那個地方的交通非常的busy然後你要在那裡蓋 你們的整個 大家會想到說未來求車進來啦 什麼的東西密喇叭啦 這個那種心理的衝擊非常大 當地的李明 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8478.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8497.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
來找我好幾次其實那個區不是我的選區啦但是都來找我了這個部分交通的問題我們都要請交通技師進行規劃評估這一點跟委員報告我們不會影響到交通你要去認認口通部長訂一下因為民怨士氣啦謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8500.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8513.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
不好意思順便請教檢察長就現在這個北檢的業務大樓已經在蓋了嗎已經在動工了嗎是目前還沒有現在只是圈地而已嗎還沒有動土但是已經都在規劃中了好了解好謝謝好接下來我們有請洪孟楷委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8533.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8549.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
好 主席謝謝 麻煩請鄭部長好 有請鄭部長委員好好 鄭部長 鄭部長我想剛剛賴思寶委員他是財經財政專業資深委員所以說其實點出來這個預算的使用的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8551.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8576.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
確實啊那個兩公約我們這邊有了解是說在四年一次的這個開會那這一次其實除了主要會議服務有八百多萬以外是不是還有包括說審查的出席費用以及機票費用都是我們這邊來出這部分我要請那個誰來好簡單講所以我們總共出多少錢所有的預算所有的預算包括場地費租借費以及出席費等等大概將近一千萬一千萬左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8578.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8604.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
1142萬嘛對不對10201020好還有包括因為有包括審查出席費以及機票費用這個是法務部給我的資料嘛是但本時要講的是啊這就凸顯了一個什麼問題就是說如果剛剛法務部講的是這是編列在一般行政業務費下的預算來做支用的話那是什麼那就代表說過去四年才辦一次那剩下三年咧沒有這一個業務所以這1000多萬其實是撫編了 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8608.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8629.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
你一般業務你一般業務你如果說依照你們剛剛的講法這樣子的話一般行政下面一千多萬三年都用不到這一筆錢啊你等於是匡列多這一筆錢啊不然你沒有餘餘額可以這樣用那如果說這個是一個新興計畫的話照理講你在立法院還沒有三讀通過之前預算還沒有審查之前他是不能致用的 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8629.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8658.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
那不管怎麼樣本席只想強調該用的錢要花在刀口上不會要馬而不吃草但是很多的民間團體其實也有跟本席跟很多意見反應就是說這一些所謂的專家學者他們來到底跟我們國情符不符合以及他們講的部分譬如說很多人那些專家學者名單其實也都是所謂的廢食廢食委員廢食專家廢食學者但台灣就不是這樣子啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8659.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8689.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
國情85%都是反廢死的時候結果我們每四年一次請他們來花一千多萬人民的納稅錢吃好住好不要講吃香喝辣啦但吃好住好是事實啊住五星級飯店是事實啊那結果用了這一些預算然後結果民進黨政府在過去總預算沒有通過的時候不想辦的業務就說沒錢就說立法院沒有三讀想辦的業務像這種要邀請廢死專家學者來台灣的一千多萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8690.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8701.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
一般行政就擠得出來我覺得這其實是蠻離譜的事情來 部長不過本席今天還是要針對法務部整體年度的預算來做討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8702.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8721.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
我看到幾個部分你自己也講到說打詐其實非常重要本期在上個禮拜也在立法院感謝我們所有立法院委員以及韓國瑜院長都共同出席我成立一個全球打詐的促進會那其實韓院長他自己也提到就是說詐騙真的還是猖獗尤其是像去年高達20萬件的詐騙數以及高達900億的財損 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8727.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8754.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
那我成立這個所謂的全球打詐促進研究對策促進會其實想的是什麼我們不要閉門造區所以新加坡有用邊形打詐這是一個辦法我沒有說一定要所以我們現在也提出說用公投的方式就是說讓人民來決定說你願不願意我們有更積極的態度但除此之外有沒有看過最近在LINE上面其實已經傳了快半年了我相信很多在座應該都有收到泰國 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8755.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8780.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
他們有新的打詐的對策是什麼是他們認為如果說你真的有被電信詐騙的話其實銀行端有責任通訊端有責任因為你怎麼會運用這樣的一個服務讓詐騙集團來使用到最後詐騙那你這一些金手的金流單位或金手的電信單位都沒有責任所以可以協助被害者來跟銀行端或是電信端來做球場 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8781.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8804.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
我想請教一下兩個部分因為這個是網路上的影片很多人傳給我那我想請教法務部有沒有針對去了解研究這是不是泰國真的政策以及他們怎麼做能夠做到這一點那還有我們能不能參考這個方向來去讓更多人有一些責任進一步不會每個人都變成是這些大公司不會變成是詐騙集團的幫兇部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8810.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8838.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
你有沒有看過這個影片現在還要還是本席以後需要把那個放出來讓大家看一下因為我想LINE上面已經傳蠻多的我已經接收到這部分我們再來了解那個有關泰國的一個做法那也就是說是不是銀行端的也要跟那個一個要負一些的民事的譬如說連帶的一個責任這部分我們再來跟金管會我們再來做一個所以部長有沒有看到這個影片 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8839.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8862.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
這部分我是沒有真正的一個資料沒有看過我們有沒有同仁看過這影片不會都沒有吧我們再來了解還是說我們再來了解本席不怪你因為今天我沒有請同仁準備這樣的一個PowerPoint但是本席本來以為是這個已經傳到Line上面很多人都在轉傳然後網路上已經討論非常多甚至他回想得非常好是因為他認為我簡單講 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8865.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8880.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
30秒就是說被害者他會被被害的時候被詐騙的時候很多人都講說你就是貪心啦你就是想多啦那可是實際上為什麼被害者會被詐騙集團相信是因為詐騙集團清楚明白講出他的個資 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8881.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8900.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
你爸爸叫什麼名字媽媽叫什麼名字你戶籍地址在哪裡也因此被害者就相信詐騙集團是真正的銀行然後才有後續的金流等等的部分那所以第一為什麼個資會流出以及銀行有沒有做一些相關把關或電信業者有沒有在這個中間過程裡面來協助防範 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8902.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8927.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
那這些泰國影片上面講是說泰國把這都變成是相關希望大家能夠負起相關責任那我們就想如果說泰國能夠這樣做他們一定也是三獨立法通過才會有法源依據才能夠有法律來去做執行那我們能不能去研究一下人家怎麼做這樣有沒有成效以及我們能不能在國內也來推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8930.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8949.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
謝謝委員 事實上委員提的就是新加坡其實有關於銀行跟平台分擔賠償責任的部分那這部分是有這樣的新加坡也有 是那這部分我們 我想請 因為台高檢這部分有一個平台有一個聯繫跟各部會的跨部會的一個平台我是不是請那個張台高檢張檢來做一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8954.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8970.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
這也不用說明因為看起來我目前還沒有去研究嘛我們直接去了解一下透過我們的平台去跟新加坡去跟泰國政府了解一下你們現在怎麼做然後做的成效怎麼樣那當初有沒有人反對我相信第一個反對一定是銀行嘛他覺得說 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8973.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8993.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
會不會增加我的責任但是銀行如果說他要賺我們人民消費者的錢我錢存在你這邊你總是也要不能那麼容易的就被詐騙集團把我的錢轉走我們那個本來台高檢有一個平台這也跟金融機構還有電信業者他們有一個聯繫的機制那我想委員這個問題我們會反映出來但是不能只是問 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8993.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9012.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
金融機構或是電信業者的意見因為如果說你問他意見那不是電信業者 這個是主管機關這跨部會的一個聯繫的因為打菜一定是跨部會的一個合作嘛所以我要的是不是 部長您先聽我說我要的是說我們先來了解到底別的國家怎麼做以及有沒有成效 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9013.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9040.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
有成效我們來學習沒成效我們不一定或是說他做了之後根本沒有效果那我們不用跟進但我覺得最基本是至少去了解人家怎麼這也是為什麼我會說全球打詐對策促進會最主要用意就是詐騙不是現在是國際化詐騙不是台灣的問題詐騙是全世界的問題那各國政府有不同的國情跟不同的積極度以及不同的反應能去針對詐騙集團 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9042.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9051.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
我們能夠做的 除了我們現在做以外我們也參考別人做得不錯的 我們學習做得不好的 我們警惕 避免我們犯錯那這部分我們會蒐集好 蒐集那這樣子多久時間能夠給我們相關資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9060.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9084.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
三個月 一個月 不好意思感謝我們很積極認識我本來以為是三個月才有辦法但是你現在講一個月那就一個月了我們就來再盡快啦因為現在人家已經在做了所以我覺得要這相關資料這是官方跟官方比較能夠直接要這些資料有些時候立法委員我們要去跟別國政府還是真的有一定的難度那最後啊 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9086.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9097.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
詐騙真的還是儘管你們的數據表格講的我都肯定第一線的同仁甚至檢察官我知道都有很多人想要離開就是因為詐騙案太多所以負荷不了 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9098.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9122.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
基層員警也很辛苦但詐騙到目前為止我不敢講說我們的成績真的很好你今天晚上還要去宣傳我們的打詐成效這個一定要去做一個還要去宣傳我們的電子煙成效我們一定要做一個法律宣導我先請教一下是球團邀請你還是我們法務部主動說我們打詐很險本來就是有一個聯繫的一個技術所以是誰主動嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9126.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9143.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
這本來就是我們就一個聯繫的就是我們跟檢察機關跟球團這部分我們本來長久就有一個聯繫的機制了所以聯繫包括說每個球季要安排法務部長開球一天因為我想我們要反詐打詐 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9145.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9162.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
還有反會選的一個宣導我相信要走向更多跟民眾可以接觸的宣傳為什麼沒有意見今天重點是今天有沒有看到網路上有球迷的爭議我相信你應該有看到剛好像中壢衝委員有詢問但本席現在站一個比較持平的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9163.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9177.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
我真的比較持平我是兄弟匠名大家都知道我寧願用一個比較持平的立場就是說第一如果說今天真的大家做得很好或是說今天業務都做得欣欣向榮無傷大雅你來開個球然後能夠幫兄弟像今天贏球但是如果說今天是我們業務都還沒有做得很好然後結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9186.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9208.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
你只要先跟我講 到底是我們法務部主動要求說欸 部長不錯的來安排這個開球還是說球團就說 拜託請部長來到底是誰我想這個是長久以來的一個合作的機制啦連這個都沒有辦法部長本席這樣真的沒有辦法接受我這苦笑啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9209.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9234.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
我真的強調我寧願站在一個比較持平的立場就如果說我們今天能夠鼓勵我們的同仁大家努力看球多一點人來看球總統也有開過球啊國民黨民進黨的政治人物縣市首長也有開過球但是我現在強調的是為什麼今天就是您去被很多的球迷在問而且下面留言 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9234.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9262.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
那大家主要是什麼大家就認為是說你今天名目第一也不是運動部突然法務部那法務部來然後說開球然後說我們要宣傳打炸跟宣傳電子菸禁止電子菸然後到最後我們現在在問的是說到底是法務部主動說部長不錯我們來開個球還是說球團邀請說部長德高望重我們請他來那連這個都沒有辦法講清楚那我更懷疑說是不是還是有預算配合 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9265.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9284.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
我們在透過那個一個平台聯繫的那個哪一個平台那麼好可以聯繫我們現在當地的檢察機關開球團事實上都是有一個聯繫的機制所以會安排這樣我們來做一個更大規模的一個一個反匯反毒的宣導我想委員應該你應該會支持我們打炸要全民一起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9284.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9301.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
那如果說有球團我支持全民一起來但是我看不懂說你丟一顆球跟我們打仗什麼丟一顆球之後詐騙集團瞬間就害怕了就消失了我沒有要丟球我們是做一個擺攤位我們是做一個你不是今天要去開球嗎我沒有我沒有我沒有要開球現在沒有要開球了本來就沒有安排開球 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9302.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9312.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
是上一次開球嘛對不對那球團昨天在被罵到現在我沒有要開球本來就規劃我們兄弟向的粉絲專頁上面就講說是開球貴賓啊那個開球貴賓 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9315.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9340.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
只有致詞 我是做一個致詞致詞所以你去講 公開講個話詐騙集團就害怕就不行好啦 部長部長 這個我整體的發言好我整體的發言我只想要跟您說的是我都肯定基層的同仁的辛苦但是上位者真的拜託把心思放在我們的本業務業務做得好自然立法院會支持這個訪會選先導我部長來帶頭來做一個訪會 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9344.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9369.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
緩毒跟打詐的一個宣導我想這個是一個大家一起來這個就是應該業務做得好立法院支持但如果說是一些業外業務真的我覺得我還是建議盡量避免好不好謝謝好謝謝洪孟凱委員我想洪孟凱委員的意思也是希望法務部能夠更致力於就是你們主要的詐騙業務啦那宣導的部分的話就是可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9370.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9397.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
利用公餘時間然後再去做宣導那接下來就請總嘉賓委員發言好 主席 再當委員先進列席政務機關事長 官員會長 功能夥伴記者 美麗女先生有請我們法務部正部長還有我們的沒有矯正署有沒有矯正署 有矯正署的署長林署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9403.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9417.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
委員好部長好 署長好其實在立法院裡面唯有免論免責權的是我們立法委員所以有時候立法委員問政搞錯了搞烏龍那您就一笑置之就好但是如果我講錯了您要告訴我好不好好 先問一下來 請問監獄裡面什麼人最多 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9421.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9434.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
建立受刑人最多的還好你又跟我說壞人最多沒有錯受刑人最多而且太多了在14年我們核定的容額是6萬但是呢實際容額超收了4.5%超超2700那麼我們有幾座監所 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9439.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9451.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
51有51 好那麼超收的部分怎麼辦我們看一下哪些人超收會造成什麼呢第一 抑震壓力受刑人人滿為患他有兩個情況一個是青年化一個是高齡化簡單講如果那個問題問就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9454.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9479.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
年輕 什麼人最多 年輕變多了 老人變多了我們因為青年 因為詐騙後 現在法官都會判不再給他緩刑 就是直接入監單單這四年就增加了4%高齡化 老人犯罪 大部分很多是因為酒駕那也增加了 也跟我們人口高齡化好了 請問 當我們超收了 多了一些年輕的 多了一些老的阿伯 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9480.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9486.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
我做的是那個那個酒駕不是說貪污的那個預證超收那我們法務部的對策怎麼辦這部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9490.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9513.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
那目前的話我們的確是有超收的一個成長的一個趨勢那我們現在有新的一個遷建 遷建擴建的一個政策那最近也巴德外一間跟那個彰化所以你說超收我們都多蓋一些新監獄你覺得社會會支持嗎不然就再一直要持續在的持續更新 不是蓋更多的監獄好不好講清楚 你不要說我們監獄不夠 越蓋越多 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9516.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9543.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
就是先見後簽那教法官說盡量不要盡量判緩刑盡量判一刻罰金盡量不要怎麼樣 可以這樣嗎輕刑犯當然我們是不會盡量用多元廚藝的一個方式那是不是另外就是減少回籠這個是最最最積極的嘛幫助復歸社會那麼什麼樣的人最有可能回籠呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9544.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9555.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
也不要再跟我說壞人喔 什麼樣的人年輕的人啊因為越早進去他未來在他的生涯當中又可能因為重複犯罪再進來 對不對所以怎麼樣下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9557.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9580.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
怎麼樣去讓這些青年增加的年輕的受刑人讓他在裡面受好矯智不要重複犯那過去我們有一個少年儲育就是避免什麼年輕他心性未定跟成年犯關在一起可能會受影響所以到監獄裡面是什麼進修加急出來更兇更狠有沒有所以我們那時候少年儲育是這樣目的可是現在成年改為幾歲18歲 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9582.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9598.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
所以相對的現在青年人的社會化延後可是呢他卻在監獄裡面的比例增高所以年輕人好勇鬥狠你們監獄的管理上會不會有困難避免他在裡面結幫結派出來復歸社會不成又再度回籠是不是重點工作之一部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9599.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9629.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
這部分的確是增加那個心理師因為社會社公司各管事這部分的一些的人力的一個充實安排來做一個輔導所以我們怎麼樣要充足的人力但是人力又不夠往上一頁上一頁我就說了我那時候在2024年兩年前我就說過要推動什麼智慧監獄包括監視器減輕人類負擔有效的防止受刑人的鬥毆署長有沒有做 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9629.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9658.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
這個關於科技監控我們一直都在實施當中那我們目前有17億的一個科技監控網的一個設備在推行當中所以有在推動了來部長繼續問我來問一下來目前我們人力不足高達1比11那我們的司法特考缺額最多的也是監控管理員我現在問部長管理人力不足法務部的對應對策是什麼法務部的對應請部長回答下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9660.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9679.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
我給你三個選項 徵求預算擴編 還是繼續跟社會擴大招考你覺得哪一個比較可行我認為 同步進行吧我認為都不是很好的預算擴編 受限於政府法令 人總你就通不過對不對擴大招考拜託那個委員來跟我們來人總來 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9683.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9684.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
小學生答題 老師都把正確答案放在最後一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9700.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9712.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
最後一個是什麼有一個叫通訊診療可以讓你們的人力負擔減輕啊你擴大編制彈劾容易你要擴大招考很多人就不來考啊你們缺一堆什麼 為什麼通訊診療呢 往下看 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9714.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9733.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
好 我要再往下看所以呢 你知道嗎最耗費預診人力的業務是去管預診的工廠嗎五個人可以看管五十個到一百個啊但是你借戶就醫要幾個一個司機 兩個管理員一個受診人出去看醫生去年104年有3.7萬人耶到114年變成24.7萬人耶為什麼受診人越來越容易生病嗎什麼原因沒有錯 老化啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9741.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9764.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
所以介護送醫如果二十四萬乘以三要耗費一年要耗費七十四萬的人力一個人是要耗費四小時欸你叫監所管理人怎麼排班部長怎麼辦剛已經給你答案了答案在這裡你們是不是有一家叫做秀傳張斌秀傳醫院他說在矯正機關用通訊診療什麼是通訊診療知不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9765.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9789.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
醫院醫生不用到監所來監所的受刑人也不用到醫院去然後呢主要是針對什麼慢性病的受刑人是不是這樣子署長是不是有這個那你們有沒有統計目前大概實施後效果怎麼樣有多少人使用目前跟委員報告目前我們南投看守所跟太原經濟都有分別跟秀傳醫院還有跟高雄醫院我就問你有多少使用成效怎樣啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9791.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9805.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
人數並沒有實際跟他統計但是個別都有部長我跟你講因為我這個事情已經找過你們的黃次長了他現在要去桃園選舉我也問過了衛福部的林次長他們都有相當的了解其實通訊診療針對的是慢性病 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9807.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9830.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
心血管 糖尿病那這些年事已高的人入監服刑他通常需要什麼 定期的回診但是你回診要浪費三個人力通過視訊通訊診療 醫生可以隨時掌握他的境況如果沒有掌握的話會有什麼情況就119叫人家趕快緊急送醫啊知不知道過去一整年 我們集中症送醫的有多少人 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9832.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9853.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
部長知不知道來有沒有119送急診的有外醫總共是35408人你看吧你看吧所以呢像這些高齡化受刑人高齡化之後如果你把他的慢性病注意好就可以減少你們人力的耗損部長你同不同意這個同意但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9854.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
9858.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
那怎樣我們會積極來推動你這時候如果叫我說中委員你去跟衛務部講一下拜託他們幫我來幫忙我一定幫你幫忙這個比去找人總容易那是不是我們就去好我們有個時間去去找那個石部長來往下看所以呢我們說解放這個管理的人力落實矯正受刑人我們不要讓受刑人增加是透過管理跟醫療減少他們回來減少讓他們可以順利的復歸社會也減少我們預證的人力耗損 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
9881.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
9888.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
所以導入科學工具包括我們的科技工具包括監控跟醫療 是不是你們又要做的 署長你們年度預算有沒有編這些經費跟委員報告 我們這個要先跟醫院那邊做協商醫院只要願意的話 我問你A你答B我問你說要導入科技工具你們預算有沒有編 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
9900.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
9906.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
那個預算都我們整體在編好啦部長我知道齁署長還需要熟悉業務部長我問部長部長署長還需要熟悉業務請趕快的請他落實這些矯正業務我們要能夠讓受薪人得到有足夠的人力管理讓他可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
9915.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
9930.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
矯正護規社會但是要減少我們預證的人力耗損來最後的結論請針對我們監所容額的超收管理人力的缺額所以給我一個現況統計報告我要知道一下到底是缺到什麼顏度還沒有要叫你叫對策好不好現況統計可以做得到嗎因為我去索制拿不到啊因為沒有在做統計啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
9937.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
9958.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
現在突然拿不出來不是說現在啦我說你們好好地做準備今天問到的範疇我要來對我們監所的受刑人的情況先做一個整體相關的了解部長可以嗎可以第二個目前全台灣有51個矯正機關請法務部針對你們的通訊診療目前只有三個點未來可不可以設計一個目標數提出一個計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
9960.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
9962.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
那個我們要做一個通盤的計畫那我要去拚連任 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
9978.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
9992.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
好那就三個月好不好部長請督促我們的矯正署我們的相關的預證機關也可以透過跨部位的合作來解決目前我們監所收容人的情況也可以提振我們預證的效率好不好謝謝好謝謝莊嘉斌委員那接下來我們有請蔡議員委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10010.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10033.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
好 謝謝昭偉 那有請部長有請鄭部長委員好部長 現在事發委員會 今天生意不怎麼好馬上就到我的外委員會那我想跟部長聊一下 現在台灣監獄普遍還是有超收的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10035.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10059.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
那在這種超收的一個情況之下我們長久以來在推動的就是說基於受刑人他們基本上我們還是希望他們有個人的一個床位的這個問題那又遇到超收那又遇到說我們想要推動這樣的政策那法務部到底要如何來落實這件事情呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10062.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10086.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
跟委員報告事實上當然一人一床這是一個我們追求的一個目標那到今年二月的時候因為矯正機關目前統計的資料是有49,002床那床位的配置率是八成那我們一直也會努力的往前推當然是持續往前推但是你看各個監獄這個超收率真的是看起來都蠻嚇人的 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10088.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10109.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
像桃園監獄第一名 超收率是42台北看守所到了34這個超收率是很嚇人的對 它的確這部分當然像桃園那邊桃園外醫監現在也開始在啟用了 陸續在對 我知道桃園外醫監正在啟用部分要變成監獄的像台北那邊也是蠻擁擠的就是超收比較嚴重所以他們有一個簽件計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10113.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10139.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
部長這會延伸到我接下來要問的問題所以外遺間的功能大概你們認為越來越少了所以讓監獄來取代外遺間就可以了這樣嗎以現在的矯正政策來說現在還是我們在推動因為現在外遺間的那個條例現在外遺間的人數是很少的啊現在有在放已經少到了說你說桃園外遺間他就要把它切出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10140.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10158.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
一部分變成監獄的一部分,外溢監就是要縮少了這是我看到的現在在調整的方向所以表示外溢監的功能弱化那監獄需要更多的監獄的空間來關這些受刑人變成現在我們的矯正政策會變這樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10161.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10175.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
那個跟委員報告其實外醫監的確是人比較少那現在陸續再放寬然後這個我想會做一些的調整這些那個受刑人到外醫監會持續的增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10176.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10193.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
受刑人到外遇監人減少當然一部分是因為修法我們希望把重刑犯不要進入到外遇監那現在開始已經放寬了那現在陸續會增加對 可是重刑犯還是不進去嘛但是外遇監他的矯正功能基本上跟傳統的監獄還是有不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10196.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10208.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
他更重視的就是讓這些受刑人他以後如何去快速的適應社會也就是我們要避免這些受刑人重複的犯罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10209.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10234.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
我們希望他出來後就可以確實的更生然後賣得反嘴整個這個司法這個矯正系統裡面這才是我們要推動的一個目標啊所以部長事實上這又呈現幾個問題第一個就是說你們都沒有發現嗎你們最近對於不管是外議間的審查或者是假釋的審查都延宕很久 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10236.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10260.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
照理說我們這一個月已經處理了這些外議監跟這些假釋的人員應該在當月份至少要處理完結果你們動不動就是拖了一個月甚至拖了一個多月甚至到了快兩個月這樣的一個時間的一個辦理的一個速度呢事實上只是會造成整個問題是往後就是沒有一個妥適的一個解決嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10262.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10285.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
這是第一類效率的問題效率的問題我搞不懂那第二個咧就是我想要跟部長聊一下就是說我們整個矯正的一個體系就是希望這些更生人要更生那延續剛剛很多人在講炸妻現在這麼多炸妻犯那這些炸妻犯尤其是這些車手他是年輕化的年輕的一個犯人 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10286.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10315.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
而且這些車手會重複的不斷的犯罪那你們到底有沒有一套的更生計畫因為這樣的一個犯罪他跟毒品犯不一樣毒品犯是因為他成癮的關係所以他會再一次的吸毒過去很多監所都是這些毒品犯重複的一直進來現在不一樣變成詐欺犯那你們針對詐欺犯詐欺犯的這些更生人有沒有一套獨立的更生計畫我想要請教部長這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10316.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10338.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
這個是在建立的收容這部分那個角色因為要復歸社會所以有一套的一個計畫這部分是不是請那個蘇貞好我是想要了解說這一些炸雞飯我們如何遏止他既然他就被關了那也出來了以後可不可以就不要再去當車手了我們有沒有怎樣才是落實讓他有效的更生呢跟委員報告一個炸雞飯的一個矯正需要多面向 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10339.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10356.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
從他法律的一個素養到一個他的個人的經濟的一個還有他投資的理念還有他的就業他的工作他的技能跟他那個家庭的一整個的一個影響全面的所以說每個受訓人呢在監裡面的我們都他定有個別處於計劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10357.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10378.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
當然啦 每個個別人他有不同的一個背景環境造成說他會去當這個我都了解 但是你們總是要一套不同的去面對這樣這群年輕的受刑人這群車手是年輕的他跟傳統的犯罪又不太一樣這一群車手他們可能是對社會事務不清楚他就亂去做車手 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10380.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10398.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
所以我們有五大面向的所以包括說原生家庭的問題也有原生家庭所以事實上法務部你們應該我們現在在打詐很重要可是打詐的這一塊已經讓這麼多車手他們未來就是要到監所去執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10399.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10417.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
那這些到監所執行後 又怎麼讓他們不再回來 不再犯罪我覺得這才是我們整個矯正系統 要說不然這些人都二三十歲重複犯罪 犯了一次 再犯了一次 然後加重再加重後可能他們真的到後面 過了最長的時間 關起來就四五十歲了這些人 大家說 人生缺角 本來缺角 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10423.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10438.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
所以這是一個社會問題那既然有這個社會問題存在我希望法務部我們應該更積極的去面對這一群車手他們犯罪以後怎麼讓他們離開他們原始的犯罪集團 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10439.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10454.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
他們也許說必須要離開他原生家庭到一個更好的環境去需要有進一步的收容如果他真的是處在一個很高犯罪的一個環境裡面也許他需要不同的一個收容方式直接有一套方式你們要去想嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10454.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10478.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
有有有 它跟毒品犯罪是不一樣的耶我們目前也請專家學者來訂立研究計畫就我們目前處遇的時事情的績效再給我們做個評估 給我們做個建議所以說對這一方面我們是很積極的在看待這個詐欺犯尤其他年齡層比較低的問題未來的話他犯罪歷程有可能會這個延續很久時間的問題這個是我們同步都有注意到的一個事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10478.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10501.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
是啊 就是說他犯罪歷程會延續很久嘛所以這個人他未來這個車手未來要怎麼讓他真的要改過自新然後真的要去做 去變一個正常的一個人生那才是真的要更生啦所以這個人我覺得你要密切的輔導他們不是說他們這個人被判刑 做車手 拿去刮刮出來之後一般流流氣 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10502.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10531.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
出去之後有可能他感覺工作上太累不然回來做廁所再躺一天再睡這要遏止他們也是要靠你們的系統持續追蹤啊所以說他觀念我們要首先跟他導正不要耗義務啦不要想說賺這個快錢那另外從法律層面我們跟他宣導讓他們習慣於工作那又回到我講的啦這些人他可能需要在透遊外溢間去媒合讓他去工廠去外面工廠去有一份正常的工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10532.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10553.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
這樣下去我覺得他就真的需要你讓他趕快去有一個正常的工作至少他在姦扶行的時候也可以透過一份正常有薪水的工作讓他出獄後延續著這個套路給他享受我是覺得說這就要去做不是讓這些人去拐起來拐起來後給他處理處理後就犯罪 怎麼回來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10555.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10581.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
這樣的話是一個失敗的矯正政策會會會原文的指導聖事我們會朝這方面積極的努力來做積極努力啦因為這個打炸事實上要事實上第一個面對就是這麼多車手這些車手年輕人我們希望他們改過自新我們也希望他們可以找到人生開啟的第二條路好不好是是是最近話又沒有就要合作整合更多資源來做這一塊嘛好不好好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10584.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10585.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
好謝謝蔡委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10588.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10612.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
好的 今天所有登記發言的委員都已經發言完畢 詢答結束那委員質詢時要求提供相關資料或者是以書面答覆者就請相關機關盡速送交個別委員以及本會委員蔡奇昌 許宇珍 吳宗憲 林倩琦等委員所提的書面質詢就列入記錄並刊登公報同時也請相關機關以書面答覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10617.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10645.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
好那麼本次會議呢就進行到此討論事項所列的四案關於法務部及所屬主管收支部分的預算案報告及詢答完畢就做如下決議我們會令定期繼續審查那審查會委員針對本日議程所列的討論事項預算提案請於5月14號星期四下午2點之前提出於時不受理好的那我們今天會議就到這邊結束現在散會謝謝大家 |