| IVOD_ID |
17393 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17393 |
| 日期 |
2026-04-29 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-36-9 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
9 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2026-04-29T08:33:31+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-04-29T10:41:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
02:07:29 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8d241381c4f8c7fce2f02a5732d1cf8dd130dc5500f44be0b1d480c4e0b4ea52987c0f239b752b695ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-04-29T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於監察院主管（不含審計部及所屬）收支部分。
【僅進行詢答；預算提案於5月6日下午2時截止收件】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:33:31 - 10:41:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
177.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
179.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
嗯嗯嗯 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1644.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1658.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
報告委員會出席委員六人已足法定人數請主席宣布開會各位大家早安那我們現在就開會首先先進行報告事項請先宣讀上次的會議議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1659.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1670.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法治委員會第8次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國115年4月23日星期四上午9時至11時12分地點本院紅樓302會議室出席委員陳昭資委員等11人 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1675.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1687.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
列席委員謝龍介委員等11人列席官員法務部部長鄭明謙等人主席莊昭吉委員瑞雄報告事項宣讀上次會議議事錄決定確定討論事項1. |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1687.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1694.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
並案審查行政院司法院含情審議民法清除邊部分條文修正草案等19案2. |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1694.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1701.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
並案審查行政院司法院含情審議民法清除邊施刑法增進第7條之1條文修正草案等7案 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1702.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1721.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
本次會議有委員陳昭芝等八人提出質詢委員林佩祥等五人提出書面質詢決議報告及詢答完畢第一案及第二案均另定期繼續審查委員質詢時要求提供相關資料或以書面答覆者請相關機關尽速送交個別委員及本會宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1727.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1740.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
我們現在首先先介紹陳昭智委員在場的陳昭智委員還有今天主要是審查監察院的預算案所以有黃士卓秘書長還有王曾華副秘書長到場 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1743.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1757.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
那其餘沒有介紹的列席代表就請參院名單本席不再逐一介紹並列入公報記錄本次議程的排定審查是115年度中央政府總預算案關於監察院主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1758.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1783.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
都寒審計部及所屬的收支部分那麼本次會議呢就僅進行詢答那麼另外特別提醒的是審查預算的相關提案我們會於5月6號的下午2點鐘截止收件於時就不予受理那請機關於之後會議處理提案之前呢就利用時間與提案的委員可以進行溝通、協調再以利後續的預算案的審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1786.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1791.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
好 那麼我們就現在首先先進行機關報告請監察院的黃秘書長來進行報告謝謝 發言時間五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1799.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1824.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
主席 各位委員 大家早安 大家好監察院秘書長黃士卓僅代表監察院報告115年度預算案口頭報告敬請各位委員指教概要說明如何第一115年預算編列情形本院115年預算系配合本院施政計畫核實編列編列情形如下稅務預算 稅務預算編列新台幣 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1827.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1850.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
三千一百三十一萬元主要為違反陽光事法之規定予以裁罰之收入出售本院公報與公職人員財產申報資料專刊之收入稅出預算編列十一億五千四百一十八萬四千元各種工作計畫編列情形如下 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1851.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1870.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
一般行政編列九億一千七百九十三萬六千元主要系用以支應人事費全院基本行政工作維運監察職權行政資訊系統維護以及資通安全防護軟體授權等經費議事業務編列九百二十一萬兩千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1871.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
1890.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
主要系辦理各會議議事所需影印機租金資料印刷等費用以及推動國際監察事務費第三調查巡查業務編列1721萬9千元主要系辦理調查巡查澄清案件所需專家學者出席費國內外旅費以及物品等經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
1891.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
1896.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
4.財產申報業務編列 主要系辦理公職人員財產申報、政治現金申報、利衝突迴避及遊說業務以及相關系統維護等經費5. |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
1896.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
1897.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
國家人權業務編列 主要系辦理國際人權公約 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
1912.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
1932.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
獨立評估意見及監督人權政策研析及人權報告系統性訪查人權侵害案件或所處所受理人權陳情申訴案件拓展人權推廣及國際合作交流等相關業務第六一般建築及設備編列七千八百二十七萬四千元請參閱下列 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
1935.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
1943.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
第二大點114年預算執行情形低稅入部分本院稅入14年稅入預算304萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
1949.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
1974.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
一四年稅入決算數為三千七百九十五萬七千元在預算數之比例為一二六點三五稅出部分本院一四年度是稅出預算九億一千八百八十萬九千元以下請參閱第三大點一四年業務概況第一陳情調查彈劾糾舉及糾正業務既有收受數狀一萬五千五 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
1979.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
1981.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
15546件 調查報告254件 談熱案27案 糾舉案1案 糾正案89案 函請各機關改善237案 巡查及審計業務請參閱 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
1994.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2019.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
第三 陽光法令宣導及廉政業務有陽光事法相關的業務採行多元化宣導方式114年即有137場次而廉政案件即有737案以下請參閱第四 國際交流本院於114年9月3日至5日 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2020.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2026.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
主辦2025年第37屆澳紐及太平洋地區監察使年會暨人權國際研討會EPO年會 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2031.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2057.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
交流監察跟人權實務工作以下請參閱13年本院於巴拉圭舉行之第28屆伊比利州美洲監察使聯盟FEO聯會上與會員大會或全體出席會員一致通過本院成為FEO區域外正式會員14年10月監察院首度以區域外會員身份參加第29屆FEO聯會並參與FEO執行委員會之改選 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2061.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2081.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
鑑於本院已成為FEO的正式會員為深化與FEO執行委員及會員國際關係15年可積極規劃洽邀阿根廷科瓦多省代理護民官以及瓜地馬拉人權檢察署檢察長及美洲國家人權機構網路執委會委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2085.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2097.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
訪台並規劃出席預計於10月賈阿根廷舉辦第30屆FEO年會人權業務國家人權委員會自2014年迄今完成兩公約 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2098.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2121.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
第四次國家獨立評估報告消除父母一切形式歧視公約第五次國家獨立評估報告以及身心障礙者權利公約第三次國家報告獨立評估意見以下請參閱國家人權委員會依針對反歧視法人工智慧基本法等相關法律提出立法及修法意見請參閱本報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2124.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2133.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
為落實人權教育持續國家文官學院國家教育研究院等機關合作廣泛推動人權教育 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2134.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2148.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
為強化國內外人權交流14年2月辦領2025數位人權國際工作坊11月印亞太地區國家人權機構論壇APF邀請再次以觀察人身份赴斐濟參加第30屆會員大會暨雙年研討會分享國內人權實務經驗以下請參閱 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2155.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2175.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
是節育 以上僅就本院15年度預算編列情況14年度預算執行情形及業務概況作簡要報告本院積極發揮監察職權促進及保障人權為公益把關設立未來經疫求精盡情指教支持 謝謝各位委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2178.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2202.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
好謝謝黃秘書長的報告那麼我們現在機關報告已經完畢相關書面內容就請各位參閱並列入公報記錄接下來我們就開始進行詢答那本會委員詢答時間為8分鐘必要時得延長2分鐘非本會委員詢答時間為5分鐘並不再延長上午10點30分截止發言登記我們就先請登記第一位的陳昭志委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2209.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2212.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
謝謝主席 有請黃秘書長好 請黃秘書長好 秘書長早秘書長 四年前就塵埃落定的林志堅入門案最近監察院稱說有民眾 這個案子因為接到民眾陳情所以監察委員本於職權必須啟動調查程序他必須開始調查這個台大國發所 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2234.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2258.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
在這個當時的撤銷程序我想請問監察院是不是只要有民眾的陳情監察院真的就會啟動這個調查程序嗎就是我問的說只要有民眾陳情你們就會啟動這個調查程序嗎這當然不是必然的關係但是這一次的調查當然以委員的對外的說明是基於民眾陳情來進行的 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2261.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2278.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
您最近對媒體說了 監察院一屆大概有十多萬件的案子那這十萬左右的案子 都會處理嗎 都會調查嗎沒有辦法 但是我們基本上都會盡量予以陳情的民眾 予以函附 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2279.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2301.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
相關的看法例如有些裁判案件真的我們監察院也不能已經司法裁判的案件監察院也不能對於這個相關的裁判做深入的追究我們來看一下數字剛剛跟您報告說有一點點落差但是我們查詢的時間去年監察院收受的人民書賬總共有1500 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2304.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2311.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
15549件那合派的調查案件就有186件你知道這個比例是多少嗎 你有算過嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2313.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2334.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
監察院在前一篇的新聞稿剛剛我談到的那個說是因為民眾陳情但基於職責他必須啟動調查程序但是因為收受的陳情案跟調查的數據實在落差太大了所以我非常好奇秘書長只有1.2%有這麼多一萬五千多件但事實上進行核拍調查只有186件 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2335.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2344.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
那監察院所說的這個機遇職責必須啟動調查到底是基於什麼立案標準是哪一種身份的民眾陳情才算數呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2345.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2368.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
這個完全是由監委依照法律行使職權來進行所以我們是監察行政沒有辦法去干涉你可以了解他們的立案原則立案原則是有法定的一個規範是有一個法定規範這個立案原則是可以我們這邊有像那個法制其實我也看過上面寫的條文是說得立案調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2369.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2397.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
這個德這個是非常的詭異也就是監察委員他有選擇權他做或不做他有選擇權不是說所有的案子所有陳情他都要立案調查德那這個德以我自己提過我也提過陳情案我在2018年3月向監察院提出這個台灣代理與育母法置換 刻不容緩的陳情文這麼多年沒下文2018年到現在沒下文咪索你可不可以幫我協助我調出來重啟調查呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2397.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2422.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
我沒辦法 那個還是但是我會把將您的陳情啊 跟您的建議帶回去這是我個人 然後是為了眾多台灣的這個病人對 我來請監委 你們也不管啊那這個到底立案調查 得立案調查那我應該可以了解整個 整個什麼篩選這個案子嘛那到底是哪些身份人講的有算數啊哪些人不查啊那個秘書長就是 我要繼續再請教你 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2424.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2450.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
上週監察院的人權委員會的新聞稿就發布了空中宗室蔡學良這個案子非常久了槍擊死亡命案的調查報告我非常謝謝監察院終於對這個案子做出調查但我必須問秘書長秘書長你知道嗎?到底蔡學良的媽媽游瑞銘女士她是多久以前提出來的像監察院就一再陳情這個案子嗎?你知道嗎?你有概念嗎?她陳情了多久? |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2453.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2469.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
第一次提的時候 你不知道嗎第一次什麼時候提什麼時候第一次提出陳情就是他孩子啊他到處去像立委像很多地方陳情啊像總統啊都有啊應該97年就開始申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2471.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2497.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
97年 20幾年事件發生之後沒多久事件發生他就開始但是他正式跟監察院陳情至少從2013年是洪仲秋案嘛也是軍中的案件我就知道至少那個時候開始他就開始蔡媽媽就開始向監察院陳情了一二十年嘛根據就說一二十年下來你們才有一個調查報告結果出來那調查結果也確認喔有許多單位是有疏失的喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2498.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2523.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
秘書長一個媽媽失去了孩子而且有冤有弊有冤案有弊案在其中結果監察院的這個讓他等了這麼久等了一二十年這種立案派查的狀況不用檢討嗎不用檢討嗎秘書長您至少也可以了解說怎麼收案法然後收案的到底進行多久就算你不能是監察委員行使監察委員的職責但是這個數字應該要有啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2524.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2547.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
我曾經擔任這個藥害救濟經驗會董事長啊我們也不能夠去介入整個藥害救濟的專業評估但是我們都有統計數字啊有多少件進來做多久這個過程怎麼樣我們都會了解啊標準用的是什麼這是專業是交給他們去做那你不可能沒有資料啊99年金山進行調查有提出調查報告要求國防部做一些改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2552.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2575.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
做一些改善 人命都沒有了 媽媽都哭了幾十年 眼淚都乾了好 再來 我就說為什麼我覺得你們選擇權太大了去年12月在野黨好幾位立委 記憶猶新吧親自到監察院遞交彈劾卓榮泰院長的陳情書原因是因為很清楚的證據 就罪證確鑿 叫做不附屬才化法 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2576.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2593.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
這個就是毀線亂證啊兩個禮拜前翁委員翁小林委員還問了秘書長你立案進度那你回答說還在研究中兩個禮拜又過去了那請問你們研究結果如何誰在研究啊是監察委員嗎還是幕僚單位到底要研究多久我總可以了解吧我們預計這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2595.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2608.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
這個在司法預證委員會我們請司法預證委員會等一下來說明上禮拜我跟翁委員答覆的部分事實上我們已經這個研究報告已經要在下個月的司法預證委員會送進去司法預證委員會進行體會討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2614.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2631.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
這樣是代表成案了嗎就是代表已經要立案調查了嗎你這樣講說要去做開會討論立案調查最後還是要監委來回覆這個問題他本身最後這案子的立案行政的部分就是要很積極嘛我們已經具體的把整個的那個行政調查的相關的資料以及研究的內容提報給監察院的委員是證據的確證最早 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2642.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2664.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
這個字太清楚了 這個憲法讀一讀再看一下所以說秘書長 社會大眾把監察院當作廢物院跟肥貓院也不是沒道理啦 它不是憑空污衊的林志堅的論文案更濟密現在還被翻出來 想要幫他重新洗白嗎那同樣是四年 他任內的也有人提12億的新竹棒球場的弊案 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2665.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2687.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
調查四年安安靜靜那個也是最正確找啊大家都看得到啊圖片啊有人受傷啊這個選手大概現在是一個廢物棒球場吧所以這個等於說四年前林志堅他的論文他的個人作用讓民進黨這個學術倫理大概這個顏面盡失那現在他又想要用自己之力不管他是請誰去陳情他會讓監察院口口捍衛的這個監察權蕩然無存 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2693.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2711.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
對不對所以這個大家都看很清楚啊監察院調查效率會隨著人會隨著被調查對象滾動調查喔你自己人派公務車就口頭道歉那這個有人的放的有人一放放那麼久有人一放有人就趕快幾年前要把他撈出來你是重新要有新的政治動作嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2713.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2732.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
這個案子報告委員沒有辦法去說明說這就是針對林志堅案但是確實監察院目前有這個案子但這個案子是在113年的4月9號就已經立案了立案然後一直查處到最近然後經過媒體的揭露 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2733.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2752.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
我才說連辦案的效率行政也可以幫忙瞭解嘛這整個要審查過程啊我們在醫療這個對人命相關啊都會有一個時程嘛一個案子辦多久嘛是停停走走還是根本不想辦我們會督導我們所屬在效率上面再積極提升 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2752.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2754.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
所以啊秘書長難怪人家說監察院你們當時說業務費不夠啦衝擊諸多監察委員的業務但是現在你還有餘意再翻出林志堅的這個案子來調查某個程度代表監察院還是有能力運作啊還是有水電有衛生紙啊可以供監察院同仁使用啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2770.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2798.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
那是去年追加減之後勉強總共的業務費加起來就是全部的三成勉強讓這個機關還能夠在日常的業務上面我的意思是說你這個案子也可以把它重啟那該做的不是可見你們的調查作業需要用的預算可能還是足夠啦還是足夠啦絕對是不夠的請你要把我們的這個訊息帶回去請監察院這個效率不要大小眼不要大小心啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2799.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2818.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
要好好調查新竹棒球案的弊案還有卓院長的彈劾案可以嗎 可以把我們的訊息傳回去嗎你沒有辦法負責任但你至少可以把我的訊息傳回去不然我是對空氣講話我們每次來立法院一定把委員的心聲跟替人民喉舌的內容帶回去給監議院這是一定的 這當然是一定的好 謝謝民事長 謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2834.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2844.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
接下來我們請汪小林委員進行詢答好 謝謝主席 在這邊有請黃秘書長有請黃秘書長秘書長好 是 謝謝在上一次本席在 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
2855.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
2879.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
這個質詢的時候呢也提到了就是對於第七屆的監察委員提名的事情啊那麼不知道就是秘書長之後有沒有把本席所關切的就是總統到底會不會提名監察委員的這個事情有傳達給總統總統府那邊知道嗎應該會如期的提出監察委員的候選人吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
2880.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
2890.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
我想我們會透過我們的行政系統院長這邊來傳達我可能不好不方便直接對總統報告那可能就麻煩代理院長要去傳達這件事情因為其實監察的業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
2896.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
2914.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
這個案件量大而且呢也攸關就是人民的這些陳情的案陳情的事情那都跟大家的這個權益相關所以我希望就是說監察院那裡可能還是要適時的去反映就是有關於 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
2916.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
2927.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
監察委員候選人提名的事情那麼那本席其實也還關心就是有關於秘書長您在這個未來去留的問題因為事實上因為秘書長這個職務是政務官理論上應該是會隨著 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
2934.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
2952.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
監察院的副院長還有這一屆的監察委員同進退喔那麼如果說是在7月31號因為這一屆的委員應該是做到7月31吧還是到7月31號嘛那7月31號之後那秘書長您就會跟著一起同進退了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
2953.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
2976.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
這我講依照慣例是會提出辭呈我們依照慣例會提出辭呈是所以如果說是在下一個就是假設這個監察委員不是無縫接軌的話那換句話說監察院的秘書長可能又會空一段時間空缺一段時間這必須依照慣例來進行我是不是請副秘書長他在監察院40年簡單的說明那請秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
2980.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
2993.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
請複密有關於等到這一屆到7月31號結束那秘書長是會依照程序提出書面的詞呈給總統府這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
2995.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3012.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
那上次也是這樣 也是有提出來是給總統府 他不是應該是按照你的監察院組織法是由院長任命的所以理論上他應該是由跟著院長同進退嘛 是不是有提 也有提 對 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3012.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3016.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
好那本席要提醒的是說因為你看我這裡有大概看了一下在歷屆的秘書長幾乎都是跟監察委員們同進退的所以本席其實也很希望就是如果我們監察委員能夠無縫接軌的話那黃秘書長或許您還有繼續留下來的機會因為才剛上任沒多久的時間嘛那麼但是呢如果說萬一這個監察委員沒有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3039.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3058.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
行街上的話那麼變成黃秘書長你可能會是這個比較短命的院長就是短命的秘書長就是在任期上面了那麼這本市會覺得比較遺憾好那麼接下來本市另外再問一個問題就是我在上次因為有關注到 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3060.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3087.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
監察院的委託調查案件很多比例很高啊比這個派查案件應該是說在從第四屆第五屆第六屆的這個監察委員的委託調查案件是成這個暴增在第四屆的委託調查案件當時只有一屆就是第四屆的六年任期只有一屆的委託調查案件第五屆 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3088.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3110.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
就前一屆的監察委員當時的委託調查案件是86那到這一屆到目前為止到115年的3月委託調查案件就高達3809件其實這是一個非常驚人的數字相對於委託調查案件是非常多倍的成長 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3112.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3127.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
派查案件就是真正監察委員自己去查的案件呢卻明顯下降啊那麼第四屆當然到時候的自己的調查派查的案件比例是他的案件數是最高高達差不多2800件然後第五屆是將近2000件然後第六屆然後則下降到大概1700件左右那本席想要了解的就是說那為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3136.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3162.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
監察委員現在很多應該自己要去調查的事情自己不去做卻又委託給其他的指定機關去做調查我這邊舉個例子來講好了如果說今天有一個陳情案他是陳情針對法務部那麼監察委員會不會又把這個案子又指定給法務部讓他委託他又去調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3165.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3186.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
跟委員報告 關於所謂委託調查案 它的法源依據是監察法第30條這已經是明定在法律上的依據所以我沒辦法在這邊代表上一屆的委員等等上上一屆委員說明為什麼他們沒有運用這個權利但是這個權利的運用確實是法律所賦予的 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3186.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3207.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
另外一個他這樣的一個作為張出立法的理由是為了希望能夠做一些簡易的調查以及派查的先行程序也就是說有些事情不用進入到派查然後大局調動調查官以及委員去查案然後就可以得到一個不錯的一個結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3207.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3220.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
也在這個三千多件裡面我們也平反了三百九十八件到現在為止三百九十八件利用委託調查的方式來進行平反的案件好 謝謝秘書長的說明那麼其實剛剛秘書長這樣講我會認為說我們這一屆的監察委員太善用監察法第30條這個委託調查的這樣的一個權利 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3234.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3258.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
事實上第430條的意思是監察院於必要的時候可以就案件指定案件委託其他機關調查是在必要的時候那看起來就是監察委員可能認為有太多太多必要的時候反正我基本上就是把這些案子就委託給其他的機關去做調查某種程度對外界來看會認為是不是在規避自己的 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3259.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3272.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
應盡的責任應該要去行使的派查或調查權反而他把這個調查權呢又委託給其他的機關去處理而且委託的機關也不知道是不是就是同樣是被陳情被檢舉的機關本心其實認為說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3277.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3290.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
這個有關於委託調查的部分監察院應該要自己要去討論有關於他使用的時機而且剛剛我們聽這個秘書長說的就是委託調查的這3800多 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3293.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3308.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
的案件當中大概有300多件所謂的平反是之後應該又回到監察院裡面然後再去進行派查不是 直接就在這個檢疫調查過程中就替人民解決了問題大概有398件到目前為止 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3308.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3328.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
那這個也是讓我們的調查相關的工作 查核 派查的相關 能夠有效率的來進行所以基本上就是由那個被陳情的機關 他再做一個自我審查嗎是的 是的 等於是我們要求他自我審查 點出了疑慮 點出了疑問之後 他們自我的改進所以相當程度其實也是一種求援兼裁判嘛因為你剛剛講說300多件被平反 那就代表說可能還有3000多件 基本上是 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3333.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3339.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
這個被檢舉的調查自己有沒有錯誤的機關他認為他自己沒有問題啊調查報告回來之後就算是沒有給民眾平反我們這邊也會就調查的內容他們回覆的內容做相關的審核然後如果有問題我們還是會拒於指摘然後如果這個案件發現他們委託調查沒辦法解決問題最後還是會進入到派查這個系統讓監委直接跟調查官 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3362.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3363.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
直接進入到調查的系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3368.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3396.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
這個請監察院提供的資料就是說請你們將你們委託調查的案件的指定機關幫我做就是提供給我一個比較清楚的數據你們都是指定給哪些機關有多少的案件可以提供這個資料給我嗎我把相關委託調查的相關的工作跟您說明接下來本席還要再講的就是說事實上因為從你們的這一屆的監察委員的派查案件數來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3397.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3417.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
其實的確是蠻少的本席幫你們算了一下這個監察委員總共二十九人然後任期六年以你們現在的派查案件只有一千六百九十一件到三月我就算是如果說以這個數字來看的話大概平均每人一年大概只有處理十件十個案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3418.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3437.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
就算是如果說算到7月31號你們突然突飛猛進做了很多的調查案件大概平均一個人也就差不多15件吧我們花了那麼多的經費監察院每年也編了將近10億的經費但你們處理的案件數事實上是很少的 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3438.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3461.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
那人民的陳情案件又這麼多那看起來你們的確是蠻多的案子其實是擱在那裡沒有處理或是慢慢的處理我們是不是委員容我跟第五屆做一點比較第五屆的派查案件大概是1882件我們現在目前為止是1572但是我們有398件也就是這些平凡案件3000多件這些都是經過委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3464.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3483.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
我希望監察委員要一屆比一屆的認真如果總是不能總是跟過去比更何況這一屆的監察委員是當時是有等於是都是民進黨政府他自己一手提名的這麼多的監察委員所以呢這些監察委員是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3484.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3491.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
他沒有積極的去查民進黨政府裡面有哪些官員違法失職以至於案件數量這麼少因為每一屆的監察委員他的政黨的比例他的性質不太一樣那這一屆的監察委員很清楚的 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3500.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3519.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
那百分之百都是民進黨政府提的然後當時根本沒有經過審查全部全數都通過那明明我們就看到這十年來我們的政府出了很多的問題有非常多的弊案從農業部衛福部尤其是疫情的時候大家看到這麼多的弊案就好像也沒有怎麼去查 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3520.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3539.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
所以這是本席要講的就是說當然這不能夠說怪罪於祕書長因為我今天只是要把這一屆監察委員的問題點出來那麼接下來您說這一屆委員容我回應一件事這一屆委員有一個比較大的特色在過去沒有就是國家人權委員會的成立 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3540.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3555.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
國家人權委員會的成立是從這一屆開始結果它每年會有十個委員將至少至於一半的時間放在國家人權委員會的工作上面是 謝謝秘書長你提到這個國家人權委員會本席認為這就是個跌床架屋的組織 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3556.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3580.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
監察院應該好好去辦正事國家人權委員會的這相關報告坦白說幕僚作業就可以了啦然後寫好了報告之後再由監察委員去評估實際上這些監察委員真的重要的公務機關違法失職的案件你不去辦然後都去弄一些人權委員會國家人權的案子國家人權你看法務部也做司法院也做教育部也做 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3581.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3595.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
幾乎很多機關都在有他們自己的人權的政策或是也在做相關的人權研究所以本席是希望下一屆的監察委員能夠真的好好的把注意力放在 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3597.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3601.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
相關的派查案件上面 要查案件上面那接下來本期還有一個問題也是剛剛陳昭志委員有提到了就是監察院現在就是要來審查有關於林智堅論文抄襲案那這個林智堅的論文抄襲案當時是發生在2022年到現在已經將近隔了四年五年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3620.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3646.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
那麼這一屆的監察委員他們上任是在2019年也就是說是當時林志堅的論文抄襲案發生的時候這些監察委員他們當時就已經在任了他們如果說認為說是台大那邊的這個台大學校的論文審定委員會可能有違反學術倫理或是在審查的流程有問題應該要積極的 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3649.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3676.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
依職權啟動調查可是我現在聽到秘書長還有之前副秘有講的就是說現在監察院案子是怎麼樣都是要等待陳情又有陳情人陳情之後才會去調查嗎這根本與法不合啊這是你們的監察權就應該依職權啟動調查所以這不禁讓人懷疑就是說到底現在陳情人是誰是林志堅本人嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3677.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3705.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
我們沒辦法瞭解這個案子監察行政沒辦法瞭解這些事情當然之後就會知道陳情人是不是明智姦因為在先前不管是像是浩鼎案當時的翁啟惠院長或者是還有這個有兩度彈劾陳龍翔檢察官的詢問窮案等等其實看起來很多時候就是陳情人可能也許就是自己當事人 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3707.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3715.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
對 那在這個案子裡面就是讓大家也會對於監察院監察委員到底有沒有真的認真的 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3716.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3732.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
去行使他們的職權這件事情感到疑惑都要快卸任了還要差三個月就要卸任了然後這時候再重啟調查來得及辦完嗎這是113年的113年這是113年啟動的案子現在才開始要進行調查本身要更正不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3739.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3751.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
他調查了將近快兩年的時間並不是說他本身這個時候才開始啟動調查你能不能再講清楚這個案子到底是什麼時候開始調查的13年的4月9號所以當時就已經有這個澄清案了 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3757.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
3784.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
對 所以調查了兩年多而且這也不一定是 我們委員並沒有單指說是任何一個個人那包括剛剛委員所指摘的某個個案並沒有是這樣子 它是以在學術相關的案件但是它不是單指個人的案件我想請秘書長最後用很短的時間再告訴我們到底現在這個陳情案件是什麼時候成立的你可以告訴大家是什麼時候成立的嗎太查的時間是13年的4月9號 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
3785.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
3813.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
派查時間是113年的4月9號 當時就已經成立了對 這樣兩年前了兩年前 所以你們準備 現在還在調查中這個整個的調查機關呢調查機關被調查機關或是當時的相關機關教育部以及台大教育部以及台大 是所以從113年到現在 是那是監察委員才要開始認證的去辦案 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
3814.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
3838.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
還是說現在已經準備要結案了這個我沒辦法替委員回答這個問題就是說他的最後的結論等等這還是屬於調查的內容總之就是這個案子這個監察院似乎也沒有說得很清楚所以讓外界會誤以為說你們是2026年然後才正式啟動調查那麼如果說之前13年就立案了那為什麼要拖拖這麼久 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
3839.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
3863.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
然後這個案子連林志堅抄襲的在法院都已經判決定業了因為他們事後是和解嘛那林志堅自己的論文被撤銷他也沒有提起訴訟嗎他有向台大提起訴訟嗎有去告台大嗎這我不瞭解沒有嘛這我不瞭解所以就對大家來講大家覺得說這個案子都已經都已經確定了那你現在突然之間監察院又說我要來這個調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
3867.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
3894.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
台大然後調查教育部這是蠻奇怪的這就大家會有什麼會質疑說這一屆的監察委員那麼是不是都是選擇性辦案而且看起來是要在這個現任之前然後就給民進黨政府再交一份成績單嗎好那麻煩請你們回去這個轉告監察委員們希望這個案子趕快就有一個什麼結果趕快就 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
3896.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
3908.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
就這個案子要做出來不要再拖拖拉拉謝謝委員指教謝謝謝謝翁委員然後秘書長這個論文案這麼認真做這個棒球場案要趕快加快這個效率 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
3921.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
3942.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
好那麼我們先確定議事錄由於議事錄之前已經宣讀完畢還沒有確定所以現在我們就來確定議事錄請問各位委員上次的會議議事錄有沒有錯誤或遺漏好沒有我們就議事錄確定謝謝大家那接下來我們就有請張雅琳委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
3952.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
3954.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
謝謝主席,有請秘書長好,有請秘書長委員好秘書長好,我想先請教一個問題因為我剛剛聽到我們的召委呢,在問了一個問題就是我關於國家人權委員會,我認為這有點疊床加屋但我確認過一下資料,這好像是在2019年通過三讀的,對嗎?我這樣在理解是正確的嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
3974.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
3989.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
是的所以這是其實是當時的政黨的共識嘛對不對國民黨還有當時的時代力量親民黨跟民進黨我們所有人的共識所以在那個的共識之下依法成立的組織對嗎是的好喔那我了解那我想這邊也是做一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
3989.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4012.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
曾經還有另外一個部分我也有提到就是說我們現在的監察委員裡面呢基本上有很多其實是我過去的民間夥伴民間團體的夥伴但因為其實也有一個我們的副院長李鴻鈞嘛對不對他其實是過去也曾經擔任過親民黨對不對是所以我想這個其實從這個名單看起來其實他是有來自於不同領域的人士對吧是的 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4013.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4029.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
所以我希望大家在看這個名單的時候呢不要因為說是民進黨執政民進黨提名就代表說這些人都是非常偏向民進黨的因為我認為我們現在監察委員真的非常辛苦我還是要替他們說一句話就是說當他很勤勞的時候呢又說他是我們的打手 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4030.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4049.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
當他好像覺得他沒有在做事的時候又覺得他是個廢所以我覺得不管怎麼樣他動責得救啦我覺得還是要回到看他們做出來的一個成果報告可受公平啦我想監察院的態度應該是這樣子吧是 謝謝委員替監察院在這方面做清楚的一個陳述我們的委員確實都是入彼從公啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4049.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4075.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
那當然也都是針對很多不同的人民的陳情的案件極盡所能的希望能夠平反包括剛剛提到的蔡園這個案子他這個已經也非常明確的說他的槍傷絕非制裁就是T65K2步槍不是用T65K2步槍制裁已經排除了 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4075.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4105.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
所以應該會有一個非常新的一個查證的方向會進行我想因為過去我們這邊其實跟監察委員也都有一些陳情案不管是台大女生涉及案或者是之前台東的幼稚園的問題那其實都非常感謝監察院提出了一個非常完整的報告讓我們在這個制度上面讓這些人民還有力量持續在前進持續在捍衛自己的權利所以這部分也是要表達監察院的努力跟感謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4106.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4124.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
謝謝那接下來我想要邀請我們的這個秘書長呢是不是有機會來看這部電影《詩樂園》是的上個禮拜呢這個《詩樂園》的導演其實就是之前拍攝《火神的眼淚》的這個蔡迎娟導演她花費了非常多的時間呢重新收集了資料做了很多的填調 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4125.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4154.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
來拍了這一部有關於安置機構兒少的狀況的一部電影叫做失樂園那其實呢我認為這裡面呢有一個有句話讓我非常的印象深刻這個裡面因為他們是一個安置機構嘛所以安置機構主任呢對他離院的孩子說因為他們在安置機構18歲就要離院了他對這個18歲的孩子說我希望我能夠活到來你是你來參加我的喪禮而不是我去參加你的喪禮 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4155.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4177.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
這句話代表是什麼意思是其實因為很多的安置兒少在18歲以後他離院之後這個制度沒有人再協助他沒有人接住他了所以很多的兒少在18歲以後都沒有一個很完善的人生所以我是希望說我們是不是可以在這個今天接下來就是要來跟秘書長來討論有關於安置機構的問題所以秘書長會去看這部電影嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4182.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4200.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
委員的推薦我會去看好啊我覺得您的推薦剛才也讓我非常有興趣我覺得這也是一個我們未來在兒少相關議題上面很重要的一個紀錄片這是值得看的一部電影好啊 謝謝那接下來就是說因為其實我們不管是從第一次2017年的國際審查也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4201.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4226.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
在第二次的國際審查也好其實他們都一直不停的強調一個清楚的原則就是機構安置是一個最後手段孩子不應該優先送到機構裡應該是留在家庭或是類家庭的環境那同時他們也有提到說是不是可以有兒童監察室我想監察院都非常清楚因為民間也是一直有這樣子的呼籲跟倡議所以我想請教就是說我們在 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4229.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4247.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
剛剛講就是希望他們盡量減少在安置機構裡因為我們從2013年到2017年其實我們在南投的安置機構發生了21起的性侵案件那在長期未通報未查核甚至還有未立案的安置地點其實對於兒少的身心其實產生了非常大的一個影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4248.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4271.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
甚至後來我們還是出現了不管是台東台北在2024年我們也調查了有關於成人機構安置身心障礙兒少的這個問題但是我認為我們可以從這一系列的個案裡面我認為是說我們一再的糾正可是還是會有失靈的狀態那我不曉得說監察院會認為這是屬於個案還是制度上的失靈呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4271.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4291.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
我不敢講叫做制度上的失靈但是在制度上確實對於安置家庭或是安置機構有一個見解上的衝突很多時候因為家庭安置的不足等等這些問題所以最後很多的報告還是建議要強化這個機構的量能也有這樣的一個報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4293.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4308.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
當然我們也有一個身心障礙福利服務去機構化之配套措施的研究本院也有開始進入的相關的研究也提出給相關的機關做參考好喔那秘書長我不知道這邊可以請教一下因為我們之前雖然 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4308.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4323.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
可以看到我這張表上面就有講到我們現在其實2024年有調查這個成人機構嘛那我們在2018年也有調查這個人力的問題我們因為可是問題是個案持續的在發生嘛我們是不是可以針對安置兒少的機構做一個通案性的調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4324.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4331.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
可是那個是身心障礙不是嗎但是我們講的不是只有身心障礙是通案和安置額上因為安置額上的類型非常多元嘛這是我們的起步這是建設案的第一步我們未來當然還是會針對我們會把委員的意見提回去 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4344.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4370.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
院裡面針對相關的這個兒少的安置是否是跟機構跟家庭的之間的這些相關的議題來做一個比較這個我覺得委員的主席我們監察院會拿回去做研究我們再約來聊這個細節那另外一個部分就是說關於兒童監察室或是獨立兒童權利監督機制那我不曉得監察院的看法是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4371.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4391.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
監察室我們已經上次的委員的執行在范雲委員有提出那我們也答應他兩個月兩個月提出研究報告好的 謝謝你那再來還有另外一個就是說我不曉得說秘書長最近有沒有看到我們有關於遊蕩犬跟人之間的衝突案件頻繁從去年的 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4392.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4419.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
應該是暑假吧高雄永安漁港有一位老翁去游泳的時候被遊蕩犬咬死嘛然後另外還有今年大概是三月左右有彰化的婦人去菜園種田的時候被遊蕩犬攻擊了兩百多個傷口然後最近也還有遊蕩犬追逐小朋友結果小朋友摔到水溝裡去等等的這個問題那我是希望說可不可以請監察院一起來調查一下我們現在這個機制上面是不是有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4420.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4427.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
因為你可以看到這張圖我們的預算一直在增加已經突破兩億元了可是我們的遊蕩圈的樂區畫設也持續在增加而我們也發現說這個重疊性很高就是說112年的 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4436.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4453.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
從這個遊蕩犬樂區到113年還是遊蕩犬樂區到114年還是遊蕩犬樂區那到底這個政策下去有沒有辦法解決人民的問題是不是有效的這個東西我們是不是可以來檢討農業部的這個制度因為過去其實田丘景委員也有關心過這件事情但是當時應該是兩三年前了吧對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4457.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4477.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
我們確實有針對個案來做過研究也對地方政府提出相關的參考意見但是我們查過了我們對於這整個遊蕩犬的通案並沒有做通案研究是不是委員的建議我們帶回去給檢察院應該是做一個通案型的思維那我們來回報到院裡去 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4479.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4495.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
好 了解喔 謝謝喔那再接下來就是說我想因為我的時間有限啦我就先來講我們的預算的部分因為接下來就要進入審查了嘛那我發現說我們現在呢我們的115年的一個預算呢我們比之前增加了0.57億可是我們的業務反而減少了 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4500.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4518.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
這個0.08億元那其實國家人權業務佔了非常非常大的一部分那當然我知道我不太確定但是這個想要跟您釐清的就是說因為其實我們今年有這個國際審查CRC國際審查那接下來還有CDO還有不同的這個CRPD也都要審查了那我不曉得說是因為這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4519.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4536.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
這個編列的原因是因為我們要對應這些國際審查而產生出來的業務費用那我也必須說我是百分之百支持的喔最重要的是說我們必須要跟國際接軌那這個就是一個非常重要的人物所以是不是可以簡單說明一下為什麼會有這樣子的一個編列的方式呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4536.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4540.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
我們每年的編列根據一個國際審查報告大概總額會用到將近525萬其中第100萬是我們在寫這個所謂的人權公約的國家審查的時候需要100萬跟外界做溝通互動 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4554.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4572.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
整個台灣的狀況這100萬是這樣其實接著270萬是要做因應的工作以及所謂的我們無障礙的也就是說所有的都可以看得到所以基本上就是前沿性研究就對了150萬是要拿來跟國際做溝通最後拿來做最後的修訂版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4574.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4592.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
所以總額大概每一個國際公約的國家審查大概花到525萬左右好 因為我時間差不多了所以我想我就簡單提出幾個重點那我希望監察院要提出這些的說明完整的說明報告到我們的委員會因為接下來要做審查了 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4593.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4601.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
那最主要還有一個東西就是我也有發現說我們在這個職業安全衛生的角度的話我們其實在115年度也有8億8852萬是用在機關的運作上面那同樣的我們的資訊安全也有6102萬元因為你們是屬於A級資安機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4615.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4636.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
你們有很多國家的機敏資料所以這個出現資安漏洞的話對於國家來說是有非常大的影響所以這個部分我希望到時候在這個報告上面都要完整的說明它的重要性在哪裡那再來還有一個是新建消防系統工程3600萬最重要就是因為我們的消防設備是76年的時候建制了 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4637.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4665.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
非常老舊防火功能不足那我還是要強調因為上次其實我就有關注這一題因為我認為我們在裡面工作的每一個公務員都非常重要因為他們的不管是性命也好或是他們的資歷也好這些公務員都是國家的保障所以我認為這個部分一定要好好的守護大家的安全因為如果沒有守護的話我們不僅是可能有風險存在還要受刑罰的一個刑責跟罰款對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4666.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4687.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
是所以期待大院審查後通過相關的預算對好那就是說因為其實我們去年呢被刪的很多啦被刪的非常非常多那甚至像人權業務的預算幾乎是完整的被刪除所以今天我問的這些問題就希望你們一定要提供一個完整的說明報告給我們司法法制所有的委員好嗎謝謝謝謝謝謝委員指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4691.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4714.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
好謝謝張委員那接下來我們接下來是省發會委員省發會委員省發會委員不在鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員不在蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員不在那接下來我們有請范雲委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4722.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4739.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
謝謝昭緯 有請黃秘書長有請秘書長委員好秘書長您好我想今天我的主題是關於國家人權委員會如何可以更積極地去促進跟保障人權 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4741.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4758.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
這個部分是監察院國家人權委員會的組織法我們看了一下其實會發現裡面雖然有談到國家人權委員會的職權可是卻沒有提到職權怎麼行使也就是所謂的沒有職權行使法 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4759.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4769.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
剛剛我看到召委也在關心就是國家人權委員會是不是跌床駕屋的問題我想我們應該回顧一下就是當時夏業 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4773.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
4801.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
當時我們的國家人權委員會是參考1993年的巴黎原則下一頁巴黎原則可以看到就是他其實裡面有規定法律要獨立運作獨立政策獨立跟財務獨立那剛剛翁小林委員關心的議題他可以看一下巴黎原則其實當時第九屆的立委在討論的時候本來也有人主張放在總統府下面可是總統府比較容易變成是行政權的一部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
4802.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
4830.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
所以希望獨立在行政院之外是因為這樣子才放在監察院不過當然我想所謂的諜床家務如我們進一步來看應該是思考現在監察院的預算都被傷害的情況下其實就做不到巴黎原則的財政獨立了對不對財務獨立所以我想回來問秘書長人權委員會的委員跟監察委員的職權有何不同您可以簡單告訴我嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
4831.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
4847.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
我想人權委員會的職權是以人權為核心我們相關的這個我跟您說明一下監察委員是行使彈劾糾舉糾正等權具強制性人權會則專注於系統性的人權政策檢討與建議透過建議合作倡議或與國會合作共同推動人權業務之落實 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
4858.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
4878.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
您現在講的是業務的內容可是就於怎麼去行使的話還是沒有作用法他們各自有一個獨立的系統這樣子所以他們的人權委員會他也會有一個委員會做出決議之後這個跟監察院的決議沒有互相干涉 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
4880.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
4903.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
我想就如同外界有一些誤解譬如說這一次我們看到監察院的預算被刪就發現他在財務上沒有獨立另外如何法律獨立運作獨立政策獨立符合原本我們成立國家人權委員會的聯合國的巴黎原則其實我認為還是有改善的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
4904.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
4934.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
不知道祕書長有沒有聽到公民團體一直主張應該要有一個獨立的職權行使法能夠確保它相關的各種的運作的部分社會的聲音我們有聽到沒有聽到那其實剛剛我問您說監察委員跟人權委員有什麼不同除了您剛剛講的範圍內容譬如說人權委員是系統性的關心人權議題外其實還有很多不一樣的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
4935.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
4958.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
人權委員會他是在事前主動介入積極促進保障人權只有任何違反人權的疑慮的事件他可以事前主動介入這個是根據巴黎原則可是監察委員他不會主動介入行政過程他是事後被動監督所以其實就介入的時機本身就很不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
4959.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
4974.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
那如果我們來看他的職權行使對象的話你也會發現不同根據就是我們的人權學者監察委員主要是監察公部門人權會的委員他基本上是涵蓋公司部門這個秘書長您認同這樣子一個區分吧是這樣沒錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
4979.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
4997.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
所以我認為人權委員會的使命跟職責的確是蠻需要專法進一步釐清的我知道我在今天的報告看到你們也有跟澳洲做交流不管是監察的部分交流人權的部分交流那不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
4997.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5014.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
有沒有了解一下長年被評為A級的澳洲國家人權委員會的運作以我辦公室查到的資料他也是有非常獨立的法源來規範他的職責跟功能那這是我們看到的澳洲的例子 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5014.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5037.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
而如果大家覺得澳洲太遠,它比較是所謂的西方民主國家那我們亞洲的鄰居南韓,同樣是新興民主國家你如果看南韓的國家人權委員會,它有非常詳盡的規定職權行使跟政府部門的關係,然後政策如果違反人權的話怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5038.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5044.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
那這部分都有詳盡規定他的職權行使的細節那所以請問黃秘書長您認為國家人權委員會的職權行使 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5050.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5073.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
如果兩個給你選的話放在監察法當中比較好還是另訂監察院國家人權委員會職權行使法哪一個會比較符合我們剛剛所講的巴黎原則跟這個人權會的期待委員我們這個不是我個人的認為啦我的喜好而是在立法院第十屆 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5075.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5100.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
108年的時候通過監察院國家人權委員會組織法時候有做成附帶決議他說因配套修正監察法明定受理申訴期限完成調查調查結果及訪視報告應與公開等規範於半年內將修正草案函送立法院審議所以我們在109年5月的時候才函送的監察法修正草案裡面專訂了人權專章這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5103.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5127.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
我想從附帶決議的角度來講當時的確就是希望你們盡快能夠有職權行使修監察法也許是一個最快的方式那我現在問你的不是立法院的附帶決議而是從巴黎原則來講就是如何符合人權會的期待然後符合巴黎原則才不會有外界批評就是說好像功能不清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5127.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5143.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
跌床駕屋這一類的批評呢我想監察院就是在台灣的法治的要求下一定全力符合巴黎人權公約全力的去做目前的狀況他沒有辦法做到我們剛講的財務獨立法律獨立運作獨立政策獨立 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5146.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5163.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
這個可能是以獨立這件事情看它獨立的概念是什麼基本上我們在監察院在行使的過程委員的職權行使應該都是獨立在運作我們沒有人包括我們監察行政在內都不能干涉 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5163.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5192.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
那這一次的立法院的濫砍動山預算沒有影響到你們國家人權委員會的運作嗎當然有影響對啊 是怎麼樣的影響就是說整個的預算讓我們沒辦法實際的進行剛才報告的很多的工作其中有包括公約的審查國家審查報告 國家報告等等這些都受到很多的影響當然我這邊也是不是也請我們的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5193.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5200.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
執密來簡單的就細節再說明一下所以委員如果可以的話就是那個主席我還剩多少時間 對 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5203.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5228.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
還有兩分鐘 好 那您簡要說明是 就是從去年預算被刪開始那我們就是等於是很多重要的業務就沒辦法做像什麼樣的重要業務無法做對 比方說像我們有一個是屬於身心障礙者的搭乘大眾運輸工具這一個調查案身心障礙者的權益的相關的報告跟大眾運輸的就無法做了是 是 是還有其他的國內的 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5230.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5250.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
若是團體的權益被影響那大部分就是比方說還有一個是像去年本來要進行有一個有關是氣候變遷對原住民的影響氣候變遷對原住民的影響這的確影響很大山林的面貌會不一樣原住民有不少是依賴山林維生或者是在這些地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5250.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5276.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
那另外就是我們有個兒童權利監測機制這一個專案那這個專案我們就是就幕僚這邊我們已經就我們可以做的我們就是發佈兒童權利的監測指標集那可是後續應該是要找兒少代表一起來做互動了解以及再就兒少的陳情的權益跟相關的機制要做一個相關的系統的研究案那這部分也是都先暫緩 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5277.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5305.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
好 謝謝喔至少我們看到因為財務並沒有獨立性喔那就會在這個所謂的政治鬥爭中可能目標原本是監察院然後就影響到國家人權委員會的對弱勢人權您剛所講的身障者的權益原住民的權益還有兒童的權益現在惡虐事件這麼的多真的非常的需要獨立的這個監督喔那所以我想最後剩下30秒喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5306.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5333.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
所以請國家人權委員會您針對如何訂定獨立的職權行使法怎麼樣能夠讓它更法制化政策財務運作參考國際的標準給本席一個報告好嗎因為我們辦公室看到即使如您所講監察院的修法的內容也並沒有涵蓋巴黎原則要求的部分是不是可以給本席一個報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5334.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5350.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
可以先暫時跳脫已經第九屆我們現在是十一屆的附帶決議那清楚的告訴我們怎麼樣更能夠符合巴黎原則國家人權委員會當時的依據好嗎是我把委員的建議帶回去我們內部會再做報告再跟您說明好謝謝范雲委員那接下來我們有請羅志強委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5367.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5380.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
主席有請黃秘書長好有請黃秘書長您好你好秘書長好我想念一段話你們告訴大家是誰講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5381.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5407.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
制度上的錯誤就是提名制度的錯誤大家想想看監委未來可能要調查總統行政院長及其他有權利者的業務結果他卻是由總統提名而且總統可能身兼黨主席最後下令以黨紀要求通過這樣的話被提名人和後來的當選人如何不受政治力的影響這段話誰講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5409.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5434.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
謝謝委員指教我針對一下沒有辦法記得是誰講的抱歉我告訴你2014年7月秘書長你在參加立法院行使監察院院長副院長監察員統一權公聽會上說的話公報上都有寫所以對自己講過的話還是記性要好一點點謝謝指教我想請問一下秘書長這段話你還認同嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5437.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5464.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
我現在在這個位置上面我對於學者時代講的話我沒有辦法在這邊給你做這個回應沒關係啦 民主黨也不為難你啦謝謝很明顯你也不能夠面對你的過去嘛你過去說總統兼黨主席下令黨紀通過這樣的話被提名跟後來的當選人如何不受政治力的影響但是沒有關係你還講了一句話我就很認同 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5466.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5475.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
你說風骨才是最重要的沒有風骨作文寫得再漂亮提名的人的代表性再好在我們看來都是一場空 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5476.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5500.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
這句話我認同 我相信這句話你應該也沒改變吧對不對謝謝委員指教我對於封堵這一次我對我自己的要求也非常嚴格來 你還講了一句話你說第四屆監察委員追殺前朝官員針對當朝的中央政務官只彈劾了四次其他四分之三的案子都是彈劾事務官這是你說的對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5501.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5526.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
是好 那我想問本屆民進黨執政的第六屆監察委員彈劾了幾位當朝的中央政務官有的 我們這邊有一些資料政務官喔我們是講事務官喔我這邊一下唸給我聽嘛 政務官哪些人嘛政務官的那個比例有沒有時間暫停一下好不好好的 不好意思好 那時間先暫停 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5538.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5562.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
我們沒有統計政務官的資料只統計中央跟地方的資料我是用秘書長的標準講啦你講的是針對當朝政務官彈劾四次其他都是彈劾事務官所以你這叫做追殺前朝官員喔沒關係啦我告訴你至少我沒有看到任何喊得出名字的中央政務官 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5563.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5582.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
被你們本屆監察委員彈劾你可以把名字講出來因為我來這邊的時間這邊有沒有相關的報告謝曉欽還有李伯道他是什麼 次長不 他是政務官政務官部長謝曉欽是什麼職務當時被彈劾的職務是什麼元仁會的主委非常好李伯道是法院的院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5593.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5614.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
那我要告訴你 你們批評的 還有另外一個什麼李伯道 他是什麼職務被彈劾的就之前法官性騷案的那個司法院的什麼司法院懲戒法院的院長 那時候就說性騷他的法官助理我直接說啦 我再幫你講清楚一點啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5615.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5640.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
民進黨執政後 只有一位叫得出名字的中央政務官被彈劾你剛剛講的那兩位 我坦白講啦一般社會大眾也不太認識這兩個人啦只有一個 我幫你講 你知道是誰嗎民進黨你知道是誰嗎只有一個啊就是管宗明 叫做前朝的政務委員因為他寫了一篇社論 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5642.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5665.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
結果呢 被我們民進黨執政的監察院來查核秘書長你也批評過一段話 師父你講許多眾所矚目的重大案件根本無法彈劾這是您在批評第四屆監委的時候說的話有說過嘛 對不對公報上也都會寫來 我來告訴你 你講得太好了 你就是預言家 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5667.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5691.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
賴清德的大弟子 前行政院發言人陳忠彥涉及性招待 官說為私 輿論沸騰監察院 以壓倒性的票數 反對彈劾陳忠彥陳菊愛將陳啟玉涉光電弊案 前行政院長蘇貞昌早就接獲檢舉監察院也是聞風不動你的前任李靜玉秘書長 用公務車送愛犬去美容 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5692.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5710.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
也一樣監察院也沒彈劾啊 不聞不問啊然後接下來我們只看到什麼我不客氣的講 我只看到像高永成施壓段怡康的曲棍囚案的辦案檢察官因為不成功兩度彈劾他 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5711.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5739.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
高永成不但對提告的林志堅的調查官余政煌也發動以監察委員的身份發動了政治清算介入卡管案也很努力認真的查了35年前的舊案來鬥侯友誼半藍不半綠我要說啊這個風骨我覺得我也算見識的到了但是呢我知道米蘇亞你剛上任這些講你也不公道 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5740.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5757.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
也不公道可是我要講就是現在的事啦監察院現在突然要查四年前新竹市長林志堅碩士論文案的台大學倫審查機制與標準約詢台大前社科院院長蘇鴻達沒錯吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5759.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5778.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
我沒說錯吧這個派查時間是在113年的4月9號不是現在不是今天是兩年前就進入派查來那沒關係就不是你現任我說過帳不能算你對不是你當秘書長的時候但也是在本屆監委發生的事沒錯吧是在本屆監委謝謝好來 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5783.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5808.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
監察院怎麼回答大家 你說這是民眾陳情嘛 對不對本於職權必須啟動調查嘛 沒錯吧 監察院是這樣回答的嘛 對不對這是監委的對外說明 因為我們院裡也不能去介入他的案件非常好 非常好 非常好米蘇朗你自己都說這屆監察院有10萬個陳情案件嘛 對不對預估啦 預估將近是10萬件到目前為止 啟動調查約尋當事人幾件 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5814.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
5827.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
10萬件有幾件?你預估的10萬件啦約尋當事人沒關係啦,事後報告送給我啦我看你的報告裡面光成立調查案件也就200多件啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
5829.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
5850.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
那這前面再加說你今天有所謂的約談的 我講約談喔約談的案件有幾件派查案件有1500多件我說約談 以及約談當事人的案件幾件基本上幾乎約談的比例 在派查裡面的比例都非常高派查幾件嘛派查1500多件10萬件 1500多件 比例也算非常高啦 肯定啦 好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
5851.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
5877.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
那我要告訴你針對那九萬九千件沒有派查的當然包括預估啦講預估不準啦我這樣繞回來好了因為十萬件是你講的嘛如果你包含預估位啦到現在為止到底幾件嘛因為很多的澄清案件的內容我先確認一下到現在為止幾件嘛不要跟我講預估那預估加起來十萬件嘛現在幾件監委現在任期幾年啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
5879.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
5891.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
這屆幾年了五年半快結束了五年半多了所以十萬件也差不多啦不是嗎你遇過六年十萬件現在也都已經快認滿了算你九萬件好不好可以吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
5892.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
5916.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
有吧 八萬件嘛 直接告訴我了嘛沒關係 算數學 一千多件 八萬扣一千多件 七萬九千件但是有很多陳情案真的也是沒辦法進入派查的程序沒關係 我知道啦 我只是告訴你啦 我只是告訴你 現在我就告訴你啦我要為這七萬九千個所謂的陳情的民眾來跟我們的監委大人申冤啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
5917.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
5942.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
為什麼幫小智查學倫不幫這7萬9千的民眾查冤屈我告訴你為什麼我要說啊林志堅新竹棒球的案子查了幾年啊新竹棒球場的案子查了幾年啊四年啦四年啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
5944.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
5949.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
但是目前暫停調查因為在等檢方的最後的確定我們才能夠繼續進行才會確實我跟你講我也在中央政府當過差啦我告訴你檢方的刑事偵查跟監察院的所謂的監察彈劾是不衝突的 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
5974.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
5996.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
所以這個也不足以構成你們的所謂延宕的理由但是沒有關係因為這個案子涉入了許多檢方調查的內容我們這邊沒有檢查權所以變成沒有辦法深入了解你總要有個理由講啦我就接到你的理由嘛就檢方在查所以四年不動嘛動不了啦 不要講不動啦不動可能你也不贊成啦謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
5998.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6023.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
論文案發生也在四年前台大撤銷學位的審定報告書早就寫好已經到教育部了林志堅當事人他一度向教育部提出訴願隔年撤回訴願當事人都認了此案早已結案我要講的是這七萬九千件的冤屈你覺得太小不好好查或是覺得很難查不查或是覺得不重要不查沒關係你監察委員的判斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6025.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6052.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
可是你們那麼大張旗鼓那麼認真努力讓我就覺得監察委員好像好像蠻閒的啊林志堅的這個學輪案可以再翻過來重查已經定案的事情外界怎麼看就我們小智很棒啊小智很有關係啊比那7萬9千的民眾要後台硬啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6055.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6075.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
四年前的案子 新竹棒球場的案子 悄然無聲 現在到四年後開始重啟學倫案我最後還是講一句話啦 秘書長 我今天必須本於職權職權這個事 但是我沒有怪你為什麼 因為我知道你秘書長也管不了監委啦 我講的沒錯嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6077.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6096.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
沒錯吧所以我也沒有怪你可是但是我要告訴用這個立法院我們今天立法委員職呈來告訴大家監察院到現在那麼多人對他有意見不是沒有原因的謝謝我們秘書長謝謝委員執教好 謝謝羅委員請先回首好 接下來我們有請莊瑞雄委員發言 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6107.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6109.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
謝謝主席 有請我們監裁院黃秘書長有請黃秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6116.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6139.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
你應該也聽到了立法院對你們監察院其實你聽起來大家對你們期待很多可是你聽起來有時候你會覺得我們像神經病一樣把你們的預算砍了將近百分之百砍了百分之九十六點多要求你們做的事情也很多當然因為整個政治的一個局勢以目前的一個結構來看的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6141.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6158.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
各個政黨對監察院看法會有所不同但是因為我們今天整個預算的一個詢打我想簡單的來請教秘書長就是說去年我們這樣子近乎歸零的一個預算的一個刪減對於你們今年整個人權政策的一個規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6160.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6182.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
因為你們今天沒錢嘛 今天預算沒通過嘛會不會產生 你們自己本身這個監察院這樣的一個大院也產生的對於整個預算的編列的時候 寒蟬效應你們今天說 反正還不會過啊所以你們在各個單位在編列這個預算的時候啊可能擔心被亂刪啊 變得保守 甚至於自我的一個限縮我要先請教你的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6184.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6195.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
自我限縮這是監察院絕對不會做的事情就是說我們還是在大院大聲疾呼 極力爭取也要請大院各委員能夠在審查之後能夠來通過相關的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6200.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6225.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
那至於說人權會相關我們很多的預算包括人權的相關預算確實在去年的刪除之後造成重大的影響尤其在國際交流上面因為人權會以及監察院在國際交流上面我們做了許多的突破跟國際的監察相關的組織做非常多的聯繫也成為台灣外交的一個非常具有貢獻的一環所以我覺得這個應該也影響到了整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6228.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6257.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
人權以及監察的一個行使當然在許多的案件上面也造成的包括調查上或是說內部的相關的人員的工作上的一些困難包括沒有預算所以的環境也受到影響這點也要請大院能夠體認到我們監察院的目前所碰到的困難能夠在預算上面會與協助這個都環環相扣 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6258.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6279.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
立法院對於整個憲政結構各個機關裡面我們也擔綱整個監督的一個責任同樣監察院對於行政部門你們又對他們又有監督的一個責任以去年來看的話你這個國際監察組織那個澳紐跟太平洋地區的監察使年會 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6280.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6306.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
這個部分這個是其實對台灣來講的話用中華民國去參與的這個是很重要的一個國際上的一個平台還好去年我們臨時又把它給補上去了還好有去把它補上去了我要講的就是說你整個去年國家人權委員會預算你一刪掉了就是刪了快97%那你幾乎就是歸零你太多的計畫多項的一個計畫你直接就其實就是停擺了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6306.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6332.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
那你停擺以後你像那個什麼心理社會障礙者的一個就業權加勢移工的勞...移工的勞全還有校園師生對暴力的一個機制然後強迫遷徙這些專案啊這個到最後齁這搞不定要讓整個人權的一個工作停擺那我要請教秘書長就是說那你今年的編列的一個預算裡面這些有沒有再放進去各單位會不會因為被刪減變成說 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6334.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6356.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
自我閹割啦 然後保守的一個編列你們今年會這樣嗎我們不會 我們還是把剛才委員所指教的那些專案會編列在我們今年的預算裡面所以還是要請委員能夠指示那個當然你要放進去啦你像比如說國際人權的部分你如果被刪掉的話在本席看起來啊 這個都是制斷我們整個外交的一個管道是的 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6356.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6371.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
那個就太可惜了就是說這個人權外交裡面其實對一個國家來講的話它不是只有一個選項它是台灣我們整個生在國際上生存的一個戰略那我要求啦秘書長我要要求的就是說你們應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6373.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6401.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
多去談一下整個國際會議的一個重要性避免像去年一樣就誤刪掉整個國際人權的一個預算這個是很重要的一件事情啦那但是呢每一年上億的預算裡面大家也會去看啦像譬如說你研究四千萬你訪查三千五百萬推廣這個如果因為百分之九十六八被刪掉那其實是一個假設的一個增加也就是說你們這錢要花一堆錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6403.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6423.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
那個制度裡面要有成效那個才是一個重點那我直接問啦就是說你們到底有改多少制度你們修多少案件你政策改了幾項這個其實還是要有一個數字還是要有一個成果啦成果應該要去做一個呈現啦那你像譬如說 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6428.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6452.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
因為時間也沒有很多啦我要特別來針對一題就是說你們出國巡查的部分出國巡查本來我們也在法庭的職長嘛你們不是只看國內而已國外你們本身要去看你們到底有沒有實質的一個成果也就是你的預算的一個重點裡面你巡查加考察這1700多萬嘛這1700多萬出國禮費是265 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6458.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6472.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
民眾也會想問啦不是只有立法院會想問啦你們去那裡到底是做什麼有抓到問題嗎或是說你們去後 當年這樣去後有沒有去對外觀提出一些糾正看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6473.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6479.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
我們做監護員也很想走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6489.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6505.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
然後回國之後有寫調查報告但是在巡查的內容在過去確實疏於提出相關的報告但是確實也有一個報告出來但是你看到東西沒有啦我告訴你 在立法院的立場你如果沒有看出一些東西來 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6506.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6510.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
立法院就會認為你就是去觀光啦 去旅遊啦不過我認同委員我支持 我跟你講我們不是 你們巡查 你們監督的不是只有行政部門不是只有國內國外有很多外館 那個去看法定職責沒有人會講什麼可是立法院會比較在意的是說你有說出什麼話沒有你說沒有東西我就跟你說 你們去那邊 去法國 去德國 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6531.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6540.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
有好算嗎 大家也想這個 一定要想這個但是那個還是有另外一個通案線的報告那一趟 還是有通案線報告但是巡查的內容 你有沒有辦法提出秘書長 我講很簡單就好那個通案線報告有 有書面你說兩項我聽就好說你們去外面去巡查之後你們感覺說 喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6550.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6554.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
你都無視於我監察院的存在我一趟出門就抓出這麼多缺失來糾正你們你也找兩行來說服立法院以2013年為例有一個出國考察的通案性調查報告是犯罪及被害人程序參與權及保護 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6572.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6591.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
我是說你們出國的部分啊對啊現在是出國的部分到哪一個國家發現這個問題啊這個是日本另外有一個政府辦理古蹟歷史建築及考古遺址等文化資產保存人才培育現況之困境與探討這也是去日本考察我國農業綠能發展與現況這到哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6595.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6608.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
這到哪裡沒有啦 我說巡查啦你不要只說考察啦 考察怎麼玩的啦不是 巡查跟他的這個通案研究是放在一起的是嘛 我就知道嘛我就有跟你講說你們的法定職長還有去巡查嘛那為什麼要巡查 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6610.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6615.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
巡查的內容確實在過去是疏於做這個要改進我跟你講你既然編了這個錢監察委員監察院立功在外館到我們國外的不是境內的到國外的這些行政機關你們有法定職長你們可以去看你們可以去做巡查你們也去了既然是巡查有巡就要查查了以後你至少要讓國人知道說我這個巡查去 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6637.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6642.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
我是有發揮功能的我第一個想法是什麼我會把委員的旨帶回去大力的建議我們的委員會以後要做這兩件事你如果巡查了兩頁回來委員跟我的認為說有功能 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6658.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6684.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
支持 跟你們支持你們都去巡查回來了沒有啦 我包在裡面裡面有講 我就問你兩樣就好啦有巡查出什麼沒有啊我們的預算遠大過這個數字所以有其他的我們幾乎每一個都有報告啦就只有您體脂災的這個巡查確實疏於報告但是有附帶了一個去國外通案當場的通案性研究的一個報告現在連立法院立法院如果要出國考察 考察回來 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6687.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6691.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
假的你也要假到嚇到一半讓人感覺你知道嗎啊你這個監察委員你們也編了預算去巡查啦你們沒有看到東西你們說包在什麼地方我真正問你巡查出什麼兩件就好讓國人有感的發揮你的功能的話立法院不是不能支持喔我們也不可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6707.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6720.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
讓整個行政部門在海外的讓他們都無視於好像是說他們愛怎麼樣就怎麼樣你那個監察權可以去發揮功能的你們就完全沒有去做到這也不對啊我們會大力建議這件事情我這樣跟你們建議啦巡查你們就弄出一塊讓你真正有成績這本地就你們應該做的事情啊好不好是 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6728.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6743.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
好不好那預算的部分我們也期待啦人權委員會喔這個可以增加整個台灣在國際上的一個能見度的要盡力的去做一個說明啦今天台灣應該用台到存很多啦應該剩下的就是人權這一塊那這一塊的話我也不認為說在野黨會給你亂砍啦因為這一些對你來講的話你像我們翁專委來講的話他也非常有人權概念的但是問題是你要講出他那個必要性在什麼地方好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6758.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6777.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
這個真的是台灣至於普世價值我們是踐行的在各國來比是最好的一個榜樣之一啦所以這樣的一個榜樣這樣子的一個榮耀應該讓全世界知悉讓他們也成為台灣的好朋友我們攜手推動台灣的民主以及普世人權的價值好 努力說明 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6780.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6808.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
謝謝剛剛莊委的很多非常好的建議他對監察院愛之深 責之切那基本上就是裡面提到的幾個問題包含就是巡查 考察還有你們這個還有什麼調查這些業務要把它分開來寫對 否則的話你們現在整個混在一起然後大家會認為說你們考有必要到國外去考察嗎其實如果到國外去巡查一些外館這可能更 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6809.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6831.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
符合你們監察權的這個行使那我還記得在去年在審查監察院的相關預算的時候當時就是說要到這個日本北海道去考察黑熊保育嘛所以那時候也是引起了很多的爭論就是說有必要到日本去做這樣的考察嗎那總之就是說在你們的115年的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6832.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
6851.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
的說明裡面就這一塊的確是不清不楚如果可以的話我也希望監察院能夠提出一個比較清楚的補充說明然後把這個部分你們如果未來有考察考察計劃是什麼巡查要到哪邊去巡查好然後把這些資料提供給我們我們才方便去做更 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
6852.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
6870.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
具體和詳盡的審查好不好好那就麻煩是不是可以看是一個禮拜還是就可以提供給我們好嗎好相關的這個訊好一個禮拜好下禮拜就是麻煩提供給我們相關的這個資料好那接下來我們就請徐宇珍委員發言謝謝主席我們請黃秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
6881.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
6903.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
好 有請黃秘書長黃秘書長您好我想今天我們是針對115年度的總預算進行一個詢答那我想其實對於監察院來說是大家都知道是憲政史上最高的一個監察機關所以人民期待監察院要做的其實就是糾正政府的為師然後糾舉 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
6907.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
6924.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
這個彈劾我們失職的官員這應該是我們主要的核心業務是嗎 是的那我們來看一下喔就是今年度你們所編列的預算我們可以看一下就是有關你們在調查巡查的業務編列了這個1721萬9000元然後在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
6930.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
6935.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
國家人權業務編列了1億1151萬元那我們可以看到幾乎是我們這個調查巡查業務的5.84倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
6947.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
6956.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
那其實剛剛您也提到嘛 我們的核心業務應該是陳情調查談和糾舉相關的這些業務可是呢 國家人權業務編列卻佔了監察院全部業務的42.86% |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
6962.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
6977.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
那也是義事業務的10.92倍還比去年還成長了11.76倍請問監察院的本業是監察政府還是在推廣人權因為你看一下你們這個預算的編列讓人家會有這樣子的一個這種這個錯誤的一個的一種解讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
6983.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
6997.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
委員所指摘的那個數字的部分其實整個來講人權業務其實它本身是一個因為它為了獨立性比較強所以它有很多的業務費是直接編在它的向下 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
6998.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7025.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
那其他的你看到那其他那幾項其實都是整個監察業務所以你要把它總和加起來看那總和加起來是怎麼樣總和加起來的話大概是一億多也一億多的監察業務相關的相關的費用了所以你一般行政就占了這個九億多嘛那你其他我的意思是要表達是對於一般不管是一般的人民或者說我們立法委員我們認為監察院你主要的職責應該是彈劾糾舉嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7028.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7048.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
澄清調查這些相關的業務而不是在只是推廣人權可是目前看起來你們的業務的這個佔比推廣國家人權我沒有說推廣國家人權不重要而是你那個佔比會讓人家有這種懷疑就是說監察院現在是已經不做這個調查 巡查 糾舉相關的業務而只是在推廣國家人權嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7050.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7072.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
委員您誤會了這個數字我想這個也是預算中心的說明我跟您報告您看到這一般行政議事業務調查巡查業務財產申報這四項從九千多到九百多一千七到一千七這四項應該加起來一起看也就是說整個監察業務原始的一個規模就是這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7073.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7099.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
那你這三個加起來也不過就是 一億三千四百多你說哪一個九千九百二十一萬 一千七百二十一跟一千七百這樣怎麼會一億多對啊就是九千一般行政九千嘛然後意識業務九百多調查巡查業務一千七然後是財產申報一千七這加起來大概總共是一億三千四百多 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7101.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7117.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
這是屬於監察系統在使用的那國家人權業務它是獨立的它裡面有許多的行政上面也是直接編在這一億多裡面所以它是兩個一個獨立的一個系統在進行就算是兩個這樣獨立的系統是不是也幾乎各占一半了 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7120.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7143.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
各占一半的意思對那這樣大家的感覺是覺得我監察的我監察院我應該是要以彈劾糾舉這個這個這個陳情調查這相關的業務為主嘛而你現在是剛剛你就算是做這樣的一個說明也也是各占一半啊對各占一半對啊那現在到底監察院是在監察這個我們的這個政府的這個缺失 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7144.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7167.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
還是在推廣國家人權 我想要請教的事情是這樣委員如果你往前推演 過去的幾年就是說在沒有國家人權業務進到監察院之前我們的預算也大概是一億多所以也就是說 多編了一億多就是要讓你們去推廣這樣的人權那這些年來 剛剛我們也聽到了嘛就是我們一年的這一屆的案件 一年的案件大概 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7168.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7175.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
大概差不多一萬五千就如果有人民澄清啦一萬五千間嘛然後你現在已經快六年了嘛大概九萬件左右嘛那你的意思就是說經過這些一屆有這個將近九萬件那你們原來編列就是一億多的預算事實上是都夠這樣子的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7187.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7215.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
其實當然這是過去的預算規模我們沿用過去預算規模來其實真的如果是要大力的再去增派所有的案件確實這個預算規模也值得未來法院來支持我們增加因為你們現在看起來是一半的重心都放在人權這個推廣人權可是不曉得民主黨上次我也有請教過您就是人權委員會在四月初的時候要求暫緩外籍幫庸新制可是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7216.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7237.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
卻沒有人理會為什麼呢因為呢他說你上次回答我說人權委員會只有建議權沒有這個糾正權那人權委員會做了這麼多的事情結果他只有一個建議權也沒有人理會行政院也不採納所以請問編列了這一億多的人權預算實際效果在哪裡難道就只是辦辦活動啊然後這個發發聲明做做宣傳這樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7239.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7260.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
他的實益非常多 請人權委員會執密來細部的說明他的功能因為時間的關係我覺得事後你再告訴我但是事實上我覺得大家會覺得你人權委員會這個一年編列了一億多的預算應該是要彰顯他的功能而不是說只是推廣那推廣是什麼就我剛剛講的難道就是這樣子發發這個辦辦活動這樣就叫推廣到國外走一走就叫推廣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7265.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7290.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
我覺得這個部分會讓大家覺得這個錢沒有花在公帑上那另外的話呢我再請教您就是說監察院的這個媒體政策跟業務宣導費是900萬元結果權數也是編列在人權業務上原來你們的監察業務核心的監察業務包括說比如說像政治獻金卻反而沒有編列任何一毛錢請問一下這是為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7292.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7293.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
財政署署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7322.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7339.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
我們會去做那個就是簡單請教你就是你這九百萬元是花在什麼地方就是沒宣費用完全是人權費用我們對啊就是人權嗎就是你們真正應該要宣導的反而沒有宣導嗎那為什麼要編這九百萬做人權的宣導呢你已經有 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7341.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7367.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
報告委員我先大致說明920人權宣導是國家人權委員會經過大院在法制上予以成立之後我們必須要將相關的工作做推廣所以這個才有這筆錢至於那個宣導的相關細節是不是我請植密來說明這個事後再給我這個相關報告因為時間的關係我只是要說明的是說監察院要讓大家覺得你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7367.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7389.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
到底該做些什麼事情 而不是都做一些說實在以後大家會想到監察院 想到都在做人權規管而不是真正你們的核心的業務那尤其是監察院在4月21號有公布2022年的選舉政治現金查核成果記者會上那有監委提出政治現金太透明可能會造成地下化 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7390.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7393.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
還有境外勢力可能會對捐贈企業秋後算法請問一下這樣的說法是監察院正式的立場是指監察院就是認為現在政治現金太透明然後這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7406.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7416.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
透明的規範太嚴格所以要請這個監委發布這樣的一個重大的一個制度的訊號嗎這個訊號的發布並沒有通過監察相關的所以是個人嗎 是監察委員個人的 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7422.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7450.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
在各方面的牽合這個是委員在他的記者會也就是說因為他是這個一個廉政委員會的召集委員那他在公布這個政治獻金在今年呼籲現在政治獻金已經可以設立專戶的日期以外呢也說明了許多政治獻金在過去我們常看到的幾個被圍屍被我們糾正或是說裁罰的地方因為剛剛你講並不是你們的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7452.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7468.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
在現場說了這樣子的他個人對於看到政治獻金長期產生的問題但是監察委員在記者會上尤其是公布這個2022年的選舉這政治獻金的查核成果應該是代表監察院的立場吧而不是說是他個人的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7470.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7487.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
尤其是他說的這樣子真的會讓人家誤解會讓人家誤解說現在是監察院認為政治獻金這種方式太透明所以不利於這個企業的捐贈還是說告訴大家就是真的要地下化我覺得反而會讓大家有這樣的誤解這是監察院是不是有這樣子的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7489.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7510.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
這我想他的說明並沒有通過監察院相關的一個程序最後成為監察院正式的那請問一下我們一般的民眾要怎麼知道哪些是有經過你們監察院相關的程序哪些是沒有我們看到媒體報導出來跟著記者會就認為那是不是監察院現在是要做這樣子的一個改變了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7512.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7530.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
我們的改變那時候是有說明的部分是未來修法的這個部分這是事實因為他們的所有修法的內容修法內容當天那個我們陳處長都在現場說明細節我再請他來說明一下請說你來說明了修法的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7531.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7554.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
報告委員其實那個我們召委他其實是把我們這個現象做一個觀察那他其實並沒有否定這個公開透明的機制他其實在講說可不是我們已經發展到現在完全透明然後網路也做公開分析那是不是我們也要去檢討或是說去注意到透明跟安全還有捐贈醫院的平衡如何檢討如何這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7557.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7577.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
是 這個部分我們就是對 你們有做檢討嗎因為這個是那個召委當天他提出來他的一些觀察因為這樣會讓人家感受到就是連本末倒置那現在人民還需要這個監察院來查政治陷阱嗎如果連監委都這樣講的話大家會覺得那是不是真的會有這樣的一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7579.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7597.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
你們並沒有提出解放 而只是先點出問題那會讓一些真的 尤其今年是選舉年針對政治宣言的部分 大家也會說原來會這樣子喔 那我是不是也應該要流向地下化反而我覺得會有一個錯誤的宣導所以我覺得監察院應該搞把自己的立場講清楚 好嗎好 謝謝好 謝謝徐委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7604.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7630.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
現在所有登記發言委員都已經發言完畢了 詢答結束那麼委員質詢時要求提供相關資料或以書面答覆者就請相關機關盡速送交個別委員及本會那委員蔡其昌審發會林倩琪吳宗憲所提的書面質詢就列入記錄刊登公報並且請相關機關以書面答覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7632.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7646.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
好那麼本次會議呢我們就進行到此那討論事項關於監察院主管不含審計部及所屬收支部分的報告及詢答均已完畢那麼本席做如下的決議那另定期繼續審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7648.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7677.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
然後審查會的委員針對本日議程所列的討論事項預算提案請在5月6號星期三下午2點之前提出於時不予受理好的那我們就現在散會好今天謝謝大家那就再麻煩請你再提供相關的補充說明好不好就是把那個預算經費裡面再講得更清楚一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7681.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7689.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
都會有發生一些問題那他們比如說他們經濟爆炸或者是性擾亂是啊 |