| IVOD_ID |
17387 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17387 |
| 日期 |
2026-04-28 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-5-8 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期第8次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
8 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期第8次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2026-04-28T08:32:38+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-04-28T16:11:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
07:38:22 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8398b1826590a60996052fc05adfb8a9722205e41a9780a3b1d480c4e0b4ea52df2fef25c5e6feb55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-04-28T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第5會期第8次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院民進黨黨團，建請院會作成決議：「一、立法院不分朝野堅定支持我國總統進行對外國是訪問，堅持台灣人有走向世界，與世界各國交往合作的權利。二、嚴正譴責中華人民共和國政府以脅迫手段迫使第三國撤銷我國元首專機飛航許可之粗暴行為，違反聯合國憲章、國際民航公約精神、外交關係慣例，並構成對第三國主權之公然干涉。三、促請外交部、駐外館處、國際民航組織（ICAO）之友我代表及所有可行管道，將本事件列入國際紀錄，且尋求國際民航組織、聯合國人權理事會等多邊機制之關注與因應，並就中華人民共和國對我國長期之脅迫行為，研擬完整之法律文件與政策白皮書，於年度外交報告中專章說明。四、呼籲世界上所有理念相近之民主夥伴，正視中華人民共和國對他國實施經濟與外交脅迫之行為，將其納入各國『反脅迫』（anti-coercion）之政策工具與立法檢討。並以具體行動聲援我國維護正當國際交往之權利，共同捍衛以規則為基礎之國際秩序、自由開放之國際航空體系，以及中小型國家免於威權霸凌之主權空間。中華民國是主權獨立的民主國家，任何外部勢力之脅迫、封鎖或打壓，皆不能改變我國走向世界、與民主夥伴並肩同行之決心。本院全體委員將超越黨派立場，團結一致，捍衛國家主權、民主自由與國際尊嚴。」是否有當？請公決案等2案。二、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。三、同意權之行使事項：本院司法及法制、內政兩委員會報告審查「總統咨，為最高檢察署檢察總長邢泰釗任期於115年5月7日屆滿，茲依法院組織法第66條第2項規定，提名徐錫祥為最高檢察署檢察總長，咨請同意案」案。（5月5日上午）四、審計長列席報告中華民國113年度中央政府總決算審核報告等案審核經過並備諮詢。（5月5日下午）五、4月24日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。） |
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發言會現在繼續開會對行政院院長施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢請今天我們進行的是經濟組的質詢現在請劉委員許庭質詢謝謝主席 左院長有請好 請左院長備詢 |
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1858.82 |
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1878.628 |
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六位好院長早安這個本期的質詢一向都是主題式的這一個題目我們講好講滿今天的題目是我們到底在維護公眾利益還是這個過程中包含很多的政治私心我要繼續追問台美關稅談判以及台美ART貿易協議的相關的問題請院長做好準備 |
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1879.668 |
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1905.968 |
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首先我們從這個馬鈴薯之亂開始說起最近這段時間大家都非常非常的訝異因為突然之間看起來檢疫的這個流程顯然是有很明顯的一個放寬過去在加工馬鈴薯加工食品如果有查出發芽的狀況原則上是採取整批退運也就是我們全面是用從嚴把關的方式站在思安的角度設計相關的行政流程 |
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1906.648 |
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1932.961 |
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但是最近突然之間風雲變色要變成用相對開放的方式改成竹坯茶宴或者是所謂您曾經講過的竹科茶宴我覺得很奇怪我請問一下院長馬鈴薯之亂或者是馬鈴薯標準檢疫流程的改變跟台美貿易協定ART有沒有直接或間接的關係請院長回答並沒有最直接的關係 |
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1934.582 |
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1950.62 |
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文字裡面他只提到說進口從美國進口馬鈴薯這個如果要變更現在的這個相關的內容的話要經過雙方的同意只講到這句話而已那我就覺得很並沒有這些細節來做任何的一個規範我跟委員補充一下喔所有的 |
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1951.481 |
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1971.393 |
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貿易的進出口的一個檢疫一定是雙邊經過諮商討論確認以後才會執行對 你講得很好雙邊諮商討論之後然後也許互相交換然後做出一些規則的修正跟改變對不對但是你這個馬鈴薯規則的修訂是在談判之前還是談判之後 |
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1972.213 |
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1997.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
我跟委員報告這個議題其實在過去兩三年我們就持續跟美方在做這樣的討論那我在這邊再次強調我們的所有的標準並沒有放寬我們也不會讓發芽的馬鈴薯或是有毒的你們所謂的有那個切剪的這些馬鈴薯進口這是我想確定的只是在整個的一個邊境檢查的流程中做了改變 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1998.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2020.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
那這個改變最主要的一個目的就是說因為在歷次的0.6%的這樣的一個比例不好意思我要打斷你啦因為你這些說法其實我們都聽非常多的啦那這是我們真實的說法我希望委員能夠相信我今天的問題啊不是要跟你爭執這些政策上面的細節我要問的是這件事情跟談判的關係啊左院長這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2023.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2035.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
簽約台美對等貿易協定發布簽署相關的新聞其實在今年的2月13號在我們播影片最下面但是你農業部修正相關的檢疫條件其實在1月的時候你就已經先預作處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2036.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2059.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
然後很奇怪的是在你預作處理的同時你在ART裡面還剛好就這麼寫著這個未來如果這個檢疫條件如果要再修正也許要國內壓力啊 食安的需求等等要再修正的時候你也不能片面修正囉我開放的時候我可以片面開放可是我現在修正因為有個ART放在這個地方所以修正之後啊我還要雙邊代表會商 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2060.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2083.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
這院長這感覺犧牲食安於前 旱死車門於後啊我請問你這個在整個台美談判的時候這馬鈴薯是什麼 門票嗎還是什麼交換的條件我還是跟委員報告我剛才說的雙邊諮商的部分那因為美國人是說一定要跟他討論那我們也會跟他討論所以是雙邊諮商的一個文字的一個敘述 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2083.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2101.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
人家現在 你現在是放寬人家比較容易進來你如果要再加嚴諮商人家會同意嗎但所有的所有的進出口一定是雙邊諮商討論到一個共識才會去執行所以基本上你就很樂意開放對不對不 我就是要問這個事情跟談判的關係院長 院長回答我問題就好 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2102.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2126.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
這個照理來講如果他是在協議裡面的一部分比如說我在協議裡面我開放了相關的這個檢疫標準我換到了其他比如說特定項目的降稅等等他是一個對等的狀態的時候你好好說服國內那也就算了對不對但是這個事情很奇怪啊就是協議裡面這不是協議內容是在協議之前你就先讓步然後協議的時候你把車門焊死說我不能再改這很奇怪 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2128.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2145.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
請問這個院長我們在馬鈴薯開放的時候我們急著展現誠意嗎還是什麼 你的理由是什麼你為什麼要先處理這件事情而不是把它放在嫌疑交換的一部分委員剛剛的時間序我們也看得出來這不是一朝一夕所形成的雙方對於進口馬鈴薯這個流程檢驗的一個變更 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2150.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2173.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
他的流程跟檢驗這不是一朝一夕形成的所以他是經過多年雙方的各種的談判內容跟這次的談判是無關的所以在這之前就已經談了很久若干因為我們也不希望我們跟國際的標準國際的規範國際的做法不對齊所以這個也是對齊但是很重要一點並沒有放寬或放鬆我們還是在 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2174.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2190.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
進口 美方進口的時候他還有嚴格的標準進到我們國內來我們還是要檢驗我剛剛跟部長講過我也跟你講一樣話不好意思 因為今天時間有限我沒有要聽你講這些政策的細節但你講跟談判無關如果跟談判無關怎麼剛好ARD裡面你就寫了規則未來改變要經過雙邊會上 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2191.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2219.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
政務的推動每天都在不同的角度不同的方向不同的面向一直在推動很多事情這個到了談雙方對進口馬鈴薯的細節談到了一個成熟的時候自然這個農業部他就會依照預告的工作我就問你嘛如果今天你本來就在進行一個ART的談判你把它放在ART的談判裡面作為開放的某一個條件可以換到別的利益的時候這樣難道不會比較好嗎你幹嘛先開放餘錢嘛我講這是不合理的地方在這裡嘛之前就在談了不是在談這個關稅時候才開始談的 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2221.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2234.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
好那你之前都在談那你到底換了什麼是你如果不開放這馬鈴薯美國人就不跟你繼續談判不跟你談ART不跟你簽ART是嗎他是我們的門票嗎還是你基於哪樣的一些政治的目的你要展現誠意你總要有個說法吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2234.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2257.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我說我們就必須有科學的根據跟對齊國際的做法那這個就是國際標準科學根據啊他國也這麼做那我們也希望我們去到其他國家的農業產品也不要被這樣子非常有這個不合理或是一個符合不符合雙方往來的一個對待你到底是為了雙方往來的需要還是你這麼主動的要擁抱所謂的國際標準啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2260.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2286.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
國際標準必須要對齊嘛國際標準必須要對齊好沒關係你這個回答大家都可受公平因為這個題目也吵很久了但是我要提醒你但是重點是我們沒有對國內的食品安全有任何的放鬆這個對齊國際標準的前提是我們不會放鬆國內的安全標準你認為這個沒有任何的放鬆嗎沒有本來可以整批退運現在不要整批退運你認為這不叫放鬆沒有我不跟你爭執這個事啦現在進來的每一顆都還是乾乾淨淨健健康康的 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2286.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2313.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
他都沒有長牙沒有發霉沒有帶土不過院長我真的是有點擔心問你這樣的回答沒關係我們後面還有相關的題目今天我覺得很奇怪就是我們今天在談ART這件事情已經不是第一次了這期在這個場合我已經是第四次在這個地方跟政府各個官員就教台美談判的議題包含我們第三會期的總諮詢第四會期的總諮詢關稅談判的專案報告那時候是跟政府院長加上今天是第四次 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2314.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2342.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
院長你還記不記得我在過去幾次質詢的時候我曾經提醒過你的是什麼有關於我們在談判的節奏把握我有沒有提醒你要注意一些事情你還記得嗎委員提了很多請委員再把重點再說一下好那我就放給你看好了好不好我們就放影片現在我提醒一下我們的談判團隊現在要把握幾個談判的變數所以我們一直在講掌握各地的政情跟國際局勢是很重要的這美國最高法院的判決現在看起來風向對於川普政府好像不太有利 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2342.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2358.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
很有可能從他們的大法官的角度這個片面由總統發布課徵關稅的舉動是會受到衝擊的同樣美國國會現在進入了癱瘓的狀態很多共和黨的議員也不見得支持川普的政策甚至對於很多關稅的案子在國會是封殺的請問院長知不知道這個事 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2361.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2386.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
訊息萬變我們也不敢做任何的揣測不過我們有做事先的各種模擬的分析在什麼樣的情況底下我們應該有進一步的什麼樣的因應以前我們大家都本來很急躁說要談我那時候講說不見得快速談是好的因為局勢一直都在變對不對那現在有一個機遇是這個是美國國內的一個壓力跟一個變數把握這樣的變數其實在談判上我們稍微有好不容易有一點點籌碼我不敢講多 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2387.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2410.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
那這個時候談判的節奏你們會照常進行嗎還是要加速還是要暫緩還是要做什麼樣的打算有把握嗎目前的節奏包括經濟部都很辛苦他一直要跟產業界講因為產業希望我們趕快談定趕快落點落在哪裡但是因為各種局勢啊現在的變化經濟部花了很長的時間跟產業講說我們已經準備好了所有的產業支持的方案所以一旦 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2411.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2438.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
到了該弱點發生的那一天我們就馬上會上路我提醒一下啦現在比如說日本韓國等他簽了都簽了嘛承諾就承諾了即便最後關稅被沒收那個協議都還在對不對但我們現在是有點機會因為還沒談成啊那如果有變數的話談判的節奏怎麼捏拿對中華民國產業的利益國家的利益是最好的我提醒院長要做好準備因為啊如果面對這種局勢的瞬息萬變即便是美國國內有它不利的因素我們當然要把握啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2438.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2468.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
對不對國安上面大家是好夥伴是盟友對不對但產業上我們不容任何威脅這也是應該要堅持的嘛如果我們對於這樣的局勢沒有任何因應變化跟策略的調整的話那人民就很難安心了嘛好不好我先提醒關稅的事情到這個地方善用一下機遇啊現在美國國內的狀況是我們可以利用的籌碼關稅談判的我希望看到一點新的或者是更多的進展因為你舉不出任何利多你只是在止損的情況下談的時候那他當然就是單邊主義我們就是被欺負的對象 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2470.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2486.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
院長這是2025年11月7號上一個會期的總諮詢我們一樣在這個位置你站這邊 我站這邊大家在討論這個關稅的進度我那時候就很清楚啦你剛剛都看到影片大家都看到影片提醒你說最高法院的判決對川普不見得很有利 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2486.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2507.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那時候你的回答是說做了充分的模擬隨時有應變的準備我今天之所以要重新回來談ART問題就在這裡了因為在整個ART談判裡其實大家都非常清楚唯一對我國可以稱作是利益的事情恐怕只有一件事叫做免於被對等關稅疊加所威脅 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2508.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2536.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
你的整個談判你的目的是不是就是這個我們爭取到合理的關稅而且我就是擔心嘛被對等關稅疊加然後你造成你跟競爭夥伴的差距競爭力下降對不對這是你們一路以來都在說的為什麼要讓步這些東西是為了要減緩這個狀況要免於被威脅所以當然要好好談這件事所以上次總諮詢我提醒你啊因為最高法院大法官的判決對於美國這個關稅政策來講是巨大的變數啊這個判決一旦成立 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2538.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2545.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
對等關稅就消滅我們在談判的對手最大的武器跟籌碼就消滅了所以我們可能可以找到談判的利基 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2546.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2575.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
好 院長我現在問你啦你說你有萬全的模擬跟分析對不對你有沒有模擬到當初我講的最高法院沒收了對等關稅這項武器 有嗎其實在談判的後段啊還沒有談妥這個ART的時候美國的訴訟已經存在了是啊我們那時候就預判大多如果這個訴訟對行政部門不利的話那他可能會採取其他的法律工具我們有緣判到這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2576.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2602.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
只是那個時候沒有真的把它當作一個已經發生的但是預判的工作都有做所以那在你的其中一個劇本之一嘛我覺得第二個不合理的我剛講馬鈴薯的先開放有很奇怪我覺得不太合理第二個不合理的地方就在這裡啦你如果明明就有所準備你的談判團隊如果是有所準備的話那你怎麼會先簽了協議之後才過一個禮拜人家判決就出來了勒 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2603.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2626.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
你對於他判決的可能的時間點沒有任何掌握嗎我們都在這裡我們無法掌握哪一天美國會判決我們只知道他有一定的時間判決會出來那我們如果提早在那個判決之前做好那至少我們可以確保一下我們在談判過程當中所有團隊的努力把我們想爭取的那事實也證明我們爭取到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2627.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2654.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
合理的關稅不疊加還有很多的豁免這個都爭取到了問題是現在對等關稅已經消滅沒關係之後後面再講現在我們是要確認這個內容的存在以及確保我們已經獲得了相對的待遇因為最後展現出來比這血淋淋的結果就是你讓東讓西之後結果你公布你張燈結彩你說你談得很棒你很努力這我都不否認我不會否認團隊很辛苦但問題是8天之後短短8天就豬羊變色這是一件很難看的事情啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2655.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2682.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
如果你已經預先掌握了有可能最高法院他就有判決是有變數你戰術性的延後一下公布的時間或簽署的時間這個本來就是這個才是你因應沙盤推理應該拿出來的理性決策嘛而且如果變數還沒有完全落板你就高調宣傳這難道你是模擬之中想要採納的事嗎你到底是在搞大內宣還是在認真談判啊委員事後當然我們可以做這種的一個分析啦但是你記得當時我也說過所有產業界都希望政府趕快談好 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2683.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2703.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
把這關稅談定讓大家有所依據訂單怎麼收怎麼去都有所依據這是當時的氣氛讓我們是一直在推這樣的一網間走你可以跟其他人講說你事後怎麼怎麼講但我這事前就講了我11月7號我就提醒你債錢所以我覺得這是很不合理我相信我們中華民國的談判團隊不會沒有預料到這件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2704.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2727.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
但沒有預料到這件事卻沒有做出合理的決定我覺得很奇怪我們的決定就是在那個時候爭取最佳的利益那我們也做到了那現在我們在確認這個利益的存在講以前的事也沒什麼意思來現在的狀況你總是要面對嘛來世界各國啊對於這個對等關稅被裁定違憲無效之後他們的反應是什麼院長你隨便舉幾個例子就好大部分的國家都希望能夠爭取同樣的待遇 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2727.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2756.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
同樣的待遇什麼叫同樣的待遇就是在談判已經談好的內容都能夠確定我認為日本大部分的國家都是這樣只有幾個國家他認為他不想去履行這樣的運動來我一個一個唸給你聽來印度啊本來印度是還沒談完的嘛欸農業部長請回了我看你一直站在那邊我沒有要為難你的意思沒關係你可以先回去坐沒事的等一下再上來就好印度談判沒有談完對不對他沒談完之後他怎麼辦他遇到大法官判決他怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2756.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2761.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
印度政府說他當然期待關稅可以有效調降但是貿易代表團傾向觀察判決的後續發展再決定是否要進一步推進談判來歐盟的反應怎麼樣歐盟遇到這樣的事歐盟是不是跟美國有先協議歐洲議會怎麼回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2781.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2798.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
歐盟他們本來就希望已經談好了不要再有所變動沒有再有所變動嗎那為什麼歐洲因為他這個122以後他現在是課的是10%的暫時性關稅是嗎那跟原來歐盟有一點點差異但是歐盟還是希望說他可以享受到最 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2799.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2825.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
優惠的這個待遇歐洲議會是直接講了要暫緩審批相關的協議因為說裁決後的計畫要採取相應的措施也當然要重新保持密切的溝通所以這裡是在看嘛 對不對我們也是跟美方我還沒問你們要幹嘛嘛 不要急嘛法國總統馬克宏說要評估相關影響並且做出合理適當的調整措施加拿大說要努力幫助企業跟相關工人 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2825.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2846.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
即便是日本,日本當然是非常親美的一個國家他也講說動搖了日美關稅協議的前提基礎但是因為跟美國關係很重要所以還是要加強相關的一個關係你剛剛馬上就舉日本為例我就把它講得清楚一點南韓政府說要以國家利益為首要任務重新審視簽訂的貿易協議這我就不多講了 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2848.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2859.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
世界各國的共通性是什麼我當然要謀定而後動嘛我要看一下對等關稅消滅之後新的局勢之後再做有效因應啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2860.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2880.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
對不對你現在問題是這樣院長那你剛剛也講部長剛剛也急著講我們也是這樣對不對我們要謀定合作對嗎是是嘛對不對現在狀況是什麼你現在還講因為我們在新聞界或者是在第一時間政府的回應的時候我覺得你回的也不乾脆啊你說什麼這個相關的談判還是對我們很有利的相關的文本還是什麼什麼你講雷大隊有的沒的 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2881.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2897.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
你不是一開始就講謀電的後動不就好了嗎為什麼我講要謀電的後動甚至要重新思考因為請問台美ART裡面有提到122關稅嗎我們的講法不同但是我們的目的是相同我們說我們要確認雙方已經談好的R的內容確保我們所得到的優惠的待遇 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2898.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2919.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
能夠秩序的下去 這個就是摩定我剛剛已經講了嘛 整個ART裡面你談的最大的重點就是你避免被課徵對等關稅嘛避免被課徵對等關稅就達成 因為他違憲了嘛那請問新的利多是什麼我要問的是這個啊報告委員 因為美國他還在重建他可能的這個法律依據所以他為什麼要提出三年以來 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2920.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2937.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
這個有可能是他在重建他的這個法律有可能對不對那請問現在的狀況所以我們持續跟美方溝通就是要鞏固我們原來已經談好的這個你回答這三個事就好了這我寫在上面第一個協定裡面現在你的文本協定裡面有沒有提到一二條款 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2937.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2958.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
沒有吧當然沒有一談的時候根本就沒有這件事怎麼會有122條款對不對那我現在問一下這個122條款因為你當初談完對等關係是不疊加的嘛因為122條款它是一個暫時性的它是一個暫時性的沒錯那122條款有沒有疊加本來的最惠國待遇因為它是暫時性的所以都是有的嘛對不對122是有疊加的嘛所以它在 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2960.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2969.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
尋求他的這個法律依據的時候不會用122 122是一個暫時性的但是暫時性的 沒有錯嘛但是對等關稅沒了嘛對不對 122是暫時性的嘛可是我們的ART |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2970.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2999.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
他擠的對等關稅已經沒了122現在又只是暫時性措施對不對所以其實對我們來講是沒什麼傷害的嘛所以你才講我有看經濟部的相關的回應嘛目前對產業的溝通還算穩得住局勢對不對因為你現在沒有壓力啊你現在沒有威脅嘛對不對因為現在是10%疊加啦對啦10%疊加嘛對不對但相對可控嘛比起那個30幾%疊加會死人的10幾%還算可控對不對現在也沒有對等關稅的威脅122還算可控那ART還有必要那麼急嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3000.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3028.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
我請教一下我剛剛提到就是說美國他可能會利用301還有其他的條例重建他的這個所以剛剛我講很多國家也有在預作準備這個我不否定你的談判團隊本來就要預作準備但是我要提醒這中間其實已經有蠻多蠻多不合理的地方剛剛你今天如果你早先面對關稅這個題目豬羊變色你的回應是很乾脆的我們跟世界各國看齊因應新的局勢我要全面停下腳步重新審視重新溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3028.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3054.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
我覺得大家對於這個東西的疑慮跟擔心會少非常多但是我必須很誠實的跟院長講我們看到的是我們還是很優惠啊你夾帶那麼多宣傳的要素在裡面幹嘛呢我們回到事實來談這件事就好我目前為止看到整個關稅的三個大的不合理第一個協定批准前現在這個ART你也沒有送立法院嘛所以當然沒有批准嘛美國也還沒有批准嘛對不對所以ART目前的條文其實是不生任何效力的對嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3055.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3082.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
還沒有生效還沒生效對不對至少我們今天有40幾組上面在講話協定批准檢所以我就講你馬鈴薯放寬的東西很奇怪嘛我還是要去強調馬鈴薯這些條件的改變是平常對任何產品的貿易條件都會改變你都在滾動式檢討嘛對不對我都幫你把詞講出來了但是自行放寬自行改變標準很奇怪啦這第一個不合理第二個你我剛剛跟院長講啦我都已經預言在前了 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3083.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3107.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
可能會有大法官判決這個變數你壓力可能會非常大可能會豬羊變色可是你顯然還是出現了翻盤鬧劇你還先張燈劫財再豬羊變色整個變進退失據第三個就是明明對等關稅都已經消滅了但我們的團隊還不面對現實說不管你要謀定或後動還好我是覺得政治都要重啟談判啊就算你真的要跟美國簽貿易協定你文本的文字總要改變吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3108.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3127.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
你總要爭取新的讓步空間吧美國也要對我們釋出善意吧對不對要不然現在對等關稅已經沒了啊所以我們的好處都不見了可是我們的開放都還在啊如果美國經過301的調查我們也做過合理的說明之後我希望雙方形式上你現在ART裡面有沒有講我形式上不是重啟談判沒有吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3127.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3151.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
我覺得形式上不要說是重啟談判是確認我們已經得到的這些優惠的待遇要確認確保我看了一下ART的文本如果我沒有記錯的話市長現在是分兩個部分一個部分是談判最後的結果我們希望鞏固但是另外一個是法律的依據那法律的依據當然先前他有了問題他現在在修正他的法律依據假如法律依據修正好以後我們希望那個談判結果不要改變 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3152.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3173.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
希望談判結果不要改變我的意思是說前面是我們開了馬鈴薯後面還開別的我等一下跟你講換到的是不課對等關稅這是以前的平衡嘛然後你現在講對等關稅已經沒了然後我們這些開放還在然後你現在又講不出來到底我們可以得到哪些白紙黑字的具體誘因然後你講我要維持這件事很危險而且非常不合理 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3173.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3190.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
我想跟委員報告其實在ART的談判過程中有一些301本來在調查的項目其實已經在談判過程中有一個比較好的結果所以我們如果確保我們的ART的一個談判的內容的話相對於可能對於301以後的調查的報告是有幫助的這是我們的重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3192.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3213.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
這個就跟我們剛剛談122一樣你有沒有白紙黑字寫進去嘛如果有白紙黑字寫進去你可以講說這是我換到的東西嘛我們就按照事實來根本我想301的調查他的調查報告沒出來可是相對裡面的內容在ART裡面已經有很好的共識的時候他們在301裡面就不會有比較嚴格的一個要求院長我只建議建議你這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3215.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3224.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
不要才在這邊堅稱對我有利整個結構都已經改變了你要謀定而後動我至少今天聽到了謀定而後動我稍微鬆了一口氣不要急啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3226.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3251.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
現在大家要繼續面對這個談判我給政府 因為最後剩7分鐘了 我還是要講一下這幾個原則 兩不兩要兩不兩要怎麼不應該不詐騙大家都看馬鈴薯之亂ART文本裡面可不只寫馬鈴薯馬鈴薯只是前菜而已來豬來牛才是大家比較擔心的事ART的文本我已經放出來給大家看了在他所謂宣稱的非關稅貿易障礙裡面直接提以後要終止 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3252.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3282.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
牛肉的竹箱茶宴跟冷凍茶葉程序有沒有這件事農委部長你可以回答了這個是衛福部邊境檢定但是相對的竹箱茶宴是在一個非常特殊的狀況是已經發現到有違禁的部分才會去竹箱茶宴所以我們過去對於所有的國家都是用抽批的方式依照他的風險如果風險太高才會達到百分之百就是所謂的竹箱院長這個我貼上去的內容應該沒有錯吧這就ART的文本 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3282.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3283.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
所以你就是要開放嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3302.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3318.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
我想我也不能這樣講如果以美牛來講過去的這個BSE的部分它在相關的規定是有規範的但是美國現在已經變為BSE可忽略的國家那可忽略的國家表示說他不必向WHO去通報 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3319.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3332.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
那相對的所有的簡易的遊戲的一個條文就是相關的規範就必須做適度的符合國際規範的更改好 又國際規範了我們又聽到這件事以前大家都講過嘛來院長右邊豬肉豬肉 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3334.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3355.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
大家以前開美牛的時候大家講過破窗會破窗那時候國民黨執政整個民進黨震天尬響喊重啟談判這不惜一切守護人民食安言猶在耳不乏現在的高官要員包含副總統 正副總統在內都講過這樣的話當初你們在野的時候市井的原因是什麼叫破窗嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3355.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3379.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
今天如果萊牛要開放 或者是要對齊國際標準接下來就是豬肉 對吧9號豬肉 有沒有如期發生所以無論是牛豬 我們原則是一樣的國人的安全 食品的安全跟國際的規範是同時要達成的ART裡面就寫吧 乙型受體數嘛這些詞幫大家再回想一下這個英宗旨啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3381.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3401.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
駐美國台北經濟文化代表處代表領域就是台灣嘛這機關對於豬肉及豬肉產品之百分之百逐批檢測已行受抵觸的做法也就是豬肉的逐批查驗你也要開放嘛對不對我沒有理解錯誤吧條文就是這樣寫的是嗎我們還是要抽檢驗的沒有說什麼全部都好像 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3403.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3430.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
門口一大開不是的還是要有檢驗的標準檢驗的這個還是會檢驗但是不是逐批檢驗所以我才講馬鈴薯之亂只是開始不過我還是跟委員強調在邊境的檢查所有的查驗都是依據風險只有他對於那個危害物質有的確近來會有檢查會逐批的查驗這個是一個非常重要的問題你可以花很多時間解釋這院長這是我提醒你 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3430.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3456.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
我為什麼要講不硬凹不詐騙我講的是對內溝通的部分如果你今天基於什麼樣的理由你可以清楚的跟國人大眾說明抱歉我們就是要犧牲這些事你早點講清楚的講不要摻這些有的沒的馬鈴薯只是開始食安的破口大家認定的破口沒有破口我想委員我還是強調我們說的你不相信然後別的網路的謠言你就相信網路謠言啦這個是謠言喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3459.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3480.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
我們並沒有做任何的改變我們進來的馬鈴薯都不會是有問題的就絕對沒有破口檢疫抽菸的程序改變我們也是有所依據的我跟你的建議只是這樣你與其花很多時間用很多話術去解釋你不如直面現實啦我之所以講這我為什麼剛剛講破窗效應這四個字很重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3481.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3488.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
因為當初你們講第一次大家在討論萊克多巴胺萊豬要開放的時候當初政府是什麼掛保證你還記得嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3491.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3514.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
來 這我們前院長你們前院長臉都打打下去 打很大力啊寫什麼 圖卡很會做嘛那時候大家講行政院最會做圖卡圖卡寫什麼 所有為了台美貿易協定的努力啊所以我們當然要做一點讓步嘛那是我們的門票沒有就沒辦法談CPTPP啦沒有就沒辦法台美貿易合作啦但是我們一定守護食安嘛所以豬肉一定要逐批查驗才進口 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3515.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3541.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
對不對什麼四大不變牛豬議題堅持立場你四大不變食安管理機制不變原產地標示不變院長變了沒有沒變啊你跟我講這樣沒變四大不變沒有變啊人家講竹皮你講竹皮茶葉才進口現在講竹皮茶葉要放寬你跟我講沒有變我剛才跟你講不要硬要不要搞詐騙你剛才講的四大的部分那個是沒有變的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3542.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3566.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
校園不進去啊產地標示啊原產地標示ART裡面有沒有寫原產地標示啊有吧說不應該再做產地標示啊只要符合國際標準就不能寫產地標示啊這個我們沒有變啊這個就是我們堅持的市面上市場上大家還是會清楚的看到這樣的標示你總有各式各樣的說法去談這件事但是你的今天的一言一行大家今天在質詢反正公開場合吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3566.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3582.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
都要經歷大家的檢驗大家相不相信 那沒辦法但我們總要把話講清楚很多事情這不是你講的這一套一套因為你當初的掛保證很多東西也出現裂痕這就是我講的破窗效應這也是為什麼我們很擔心這件事情的原因 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3583.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3609.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
這個事實就是進來的每一個產品它必須是健康的 安全的你講這個ART對我們非常好但是你總是忽略大家要付的代價如果它真的這麼好你就趕快跟大家把一次可能未來會遇到的事情講講清楚這是我跟你衷心的承諾但另外我們還是從正面 正面收尾大家又覺得吵架這面對談判的兩要要把握時局 要遵守承諾什麼叫把握時局啊院長下一個談判的變數是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3610.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3613.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
美國國內的下一個政治變數是什麼 你有沒有掌握啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3615.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3641.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
你是說美國的政局的改變 國內可能會遇到什麼事情啊政局的改變嗎 政局的改變啊 對啊 政局的改變落在什麼時候 是什麼樣的事件選舉之後嘛 選舉之後嘛 對不對所以你對時局 你其實是有概念的嘛聰明一點 既然你 我至少今天正面解讀你講謀定而後動 這非常重要因為人要變數啊 我之前也講美國的國會對於關稅政策可是很有意見啦他不會放任川普一個人用單邊主義的方式胡搞瞎搞 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3641.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3670.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
但是我認為國家的政策 外交的努力以及各種經貿的秩序它應該有一個常軌你可以有你的節奏 這我尊重但是你必須要非常坦誠透明的告訴大家我們可能會付出什麼代價然後你要遵守你的承諾你不要忘記你屢次宣稱在談判的時候你講啊 糧食安全 國人健康 產業利益跟國家利益如果ART的前提消滅好 謝謝謝謝牛委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3671.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3676.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
好 謝謝卓院長下一位請蔡春愁委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3702.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3706.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
院長好有請卓院長好請卓院長備詢蔡委員好院長好我們是第一次這樣面對面的一個執行今天我要跟院長來做一個就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3729.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3755.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
做台灣人口的一個結構問題來請教我們院長因為台灣目前已經面臨到少子化還有高齡化這樣的一個人口結構的問題而且我們的人口又都是集中在六都造成我們的人口不均勻所以在109年的時候我們就啟動了地方創生為我們國家戰略的一個政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3755.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3778.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
那我知道我們院長對於我們這樣的地方創生也有你的驗檢那在這裡已經有將近八年的時間院長你對地方創生這樣的一個驗檢跟期待有沒有落差請院長這兩年的時間 將近兩年的時間我們也看了各地很多地方創生成功的例子 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3779.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3794.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
那也謝謝過去國發會時代一直對地方創生做了相當多政策以及經費上以及在各種輔導上面的努力我們看了很多其實各式各樣都有有餐飲店有書店有這個各種地方特色的 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3795.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3814.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
我認為我們應該把它串聯起來讓它成為一個整個台灣的故事而不是單一點每個人都非常的成功但是一定也有那些不是很成功的如何互相經驗交流把成功的去協助那些現在還在努力中的甚至把成功的例子告訴現在想要走這條路的年輕人他們可以有這樣的一個經驗可以依選 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3815.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3829.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
我覺得國發會如果再做這樣的工作努力把它編織起來這個整個地方創生的地方網會更為有效好那謝謝院長我在這邊跟那個委員等一下謝謝院長對這個地方創生這樣的一個啟齊因為我們地方創生從 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3835.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3859.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
目前已經是2026年我們有一定的政策然後我們要到2030年的時候我們必須就要達到人口回流那院長你在對這樣的一個願景你有把握嗎是 包括很多的青農也回到他的故鄉去包括很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3859.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3880.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
在結婚之後他兩位夫妻也一起到他本來的地方回到他的家鄉去做努力那這個我對於這一鄉村來看從人口老化之後吸引更多年輕人回來從事地方特色這絕對有幫助的所以我剛才說應該把這個經驗能夠把它再編織成起來一個地方的地方創生活 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3881.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3899.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
對因為我們要驚人台灣嘛所以我們人口必須要也是要從六都引流回到我們的那個偏鄉地區讓人口能夠平靜化然後城鄉差距能夠拉進來不要整個資源都在六都嘛所以呢我們在那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3902.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3912.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
我們鼓勵年輕人親融回到我們地方來也就是所謂的舊文化傳承然後我們新文化的一個創新我要請教我們從108年到現在從1.0到3.0有沒有盤點我們目前成功的案例 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3922.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3945.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
有幾個點這邊跟那個委員報告我們110年到目前為止我們青培站這個部分總共佈置了大概148處那獎勵金的發放大概也有300萬你告訴我你現在有沒有盤點成功的案成功的點有幾個點有沒有盤點像譬如說在雲林雲林我們有一個案有一個成功的案子就是維勳農場 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3946.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3975.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
那這維勳農場的話它其實是一個地方創生非常成功的一個案例那這一個案例的話我們特別為了雲林這個地方然後把它把它轉型成為一個叫智慧農業那目前的話我們也是一樣持續的在推動類似這樣的一個計畫所以配合的整個我們所謂的六大區域產業生活圈的一個現況我們會對每一個生活圈不一樣的一個特性以及性質然後我們會大力的來推動所謂的地方創生 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3976.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3997.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
主委你真的確認你掌握了這個消息是正確的嗎就是雲林的這個維新農場你覺得他經營的非常好是嗎可以來作為示範嗎目前來講的話我們的回報是還算不錯的好那我們有機會再請那個主委我們到維新農場來參觀一下可以沒問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4001.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4016.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
除了這個維新農場之外呢我想我們當初呢選了一百三十四點從有農村漁村到中介城市一直到我們的原鄉我想每一個地方的特色不一樣那 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4017.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4031.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
請主委你能不能再除了這個這個是農村型的那還有沒有其他不一樣的一個成功案例來做一個分享像譬如說我們會結合那個地方創生跟那個所謂的社區的韌性 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4032.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4052.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
那我們其實都一直在組建這樣的一個量能比如說在宜蘭或者是台南這個地方像去年台南那個風災其實有一個團隊我現在名字忘了我那個會後的時候我再給委員那個名字那那個團隊其實配合的那個整個社區的韌性 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4053.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4077.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
然後在災害來臨的當時的話他就結合地方的一些力量然後把整個那個復原的方式把它組建起來好 那個主委那我請教院長那有沒有把握說這些人這些你剛剛講的成功案例連有都回來了嗎有回來嗎 有止跌嗎 有回來嗎 連有報告委員 他們我們是 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4078.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4101.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
就是青創基地他有一個規定你要在地蹲點五年六年所以他本來就在那邊然後他也做得非常好然後把這個成果可以擴散那你剛才講的就是說不管在偏鄉也好甚至原住民地區都有比如說他們回到原鄉以後他發現說這個土地可能受到農業的這個就是災害以後他會用比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4102.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4116.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
生態的方式來耕種苦茶油然後創造很多的附加價值出來然後讓族人更多的參與那產生一個地方創生轉型的一個很大的一個契機比如說包括金門或澎湖也好或者是 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4117.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4140.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
他們都有他們的特色他們原來的這個產品可以更精緻化我們就是要把地方的DNA把它發掘出來然後加以發揚那這個部分有一些部分都有一些那個偏鄉的有一些地方創生都做得非常好那現在我還要跟大家分享就是說因為我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4142.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4163.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
這100多個點慢慢慢慢淘汰到現在目前那剛剛主委也講不出到底有多少個點我們希望我們能夠去掌握目前已經成功的是哪些點而且這些點可以做來做為國內的一個示範點我想我們花那個院長你知道我們從1.0到現在已經花了多少錢經費已經花了多少錢 院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4165.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4190.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
經費部分再查一下因為這兩位都工部長是過去的國發會主任我現在是要跟大家講就是說我們錢已經花了將近300億下去了那麼我們希望能夠看到希望我們能夠把一些成功的案例拿出來作為我們國家的一個示範示範點然後正在努力的這些地方創生的人物來做一個學習 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4191.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4210.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
是不是這樣子所以我們希望你能夠掌握到一些成功的案例那現在有一個類似像農村型的它已經是一個成功的一個等型的話那一般這個農村它都是人口老化而且交通不便 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4210.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4235.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
那在這一個部分我們要如何來做一個協助而且如果是老化的鄉村是不是我們能夠把它變成它的一個地方創生做得非常成功的時候我們是不是能夠讓它作為如果是適宜老人來居住來當成一個養生村然後有地方創生然後又能夠吸引其他外縣市的老人到這邊來住那這個時候就應該要 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4238.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4256.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
政府來協助做一個美好報告委員農村現在最大的問題是二代跟他們第一代的時候他們如何接班那想法有點不一樣那經過大家的磨合以後甚至可以農村串聯起來大家一起來做現在在台南或者是南部已經有很好的成效 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4256.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4276.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
我希望主委跟如果委員有時間可以去走一趟我們希望我們可以做這樣的一個視察讓我們的一些成功的案例能夠讓一些還正在努力的年輕人來做學習然後讓我們這個地方創生能夠花揚光大這才是重要的我們花了這麼多錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4277.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4300.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
我們花了這麼多錢,我們希望我們年輕人有就業機會,因為金很台灣啊所以我們希望就是說,讓我們年輕人有機會讓他回到故鄉來而且能夠花費手藏,而且把地方的一些特色、在地的特色能夠把它發揚光大然後我剛剛講的農村型的類似這樣的一個,我們是不是也做一個考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4301.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4315.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
跟委員報告我們那個地方創生不只在台灣做我們也會把台灣的好的範例跟國際上面去做結果譬如說像我們每一年都會跟日本的一些地方創生團隊做一些交流一起看一些論壇因為時間有限 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4317.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4340.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
那我們就到這裡 我就是說有一些成功的案例能夠來作為一個示範有一些觀光亮點 也不一定它就是人口就能夠回流像我在報紙看到 我們的平溪 新北市的平溪它是一個觀光地 人口仍然 觀光人口仍然很多但是它還是人口在外流 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4341.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4363.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
一樣的迎寧縣的北港鎮北港是宗教聖地它一年有一千多萬人次來到北港但是它還是一樣人口外流那像這樣子的話我們有沒有查解是什麼原因都是觀光人口有但是在地人口還是在外流那這是什麼原因我們要如何來遏止如何來讓這樣的一個現象 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4365.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4391.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
不要再繼續外流能夠讓年輕人回流有沒有什麼政策來幫助這些觀光有量的地方那個地方創生我們會慢慢把它產業化譬如說像在雲林這個地方雲林這個地方我們都知道雲林有那個朝天宮那我們希望就是說把那個鄉客變成是遊客那甚至吸引一些青年回來回到回鄉去住地這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4391.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4419.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
那譬如說假如說那個北港的糖廠二號假如說今年能夠完工的話我們也會請那個文化部去跟在地的一些特色的一些藝術家還有一些有特色的一些業者那一起來從事所謂的文創的產業那另外就是說就好像剛剛我希望把那個鄉隔變那個遊客然後促進地方的那一個產業發展對鄉隔變遊客 遊客變產客這個是我們的期待那就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4421.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4429.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
我們還是需要我們當初的這個地方創生有五支建現在大概是設了四支了那還有一支建那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4430.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4455.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
院長或者是主委你們知道這一支箭是什麼箭是哪一支箭第五支箭我跟你講企業投入所以呢在這裡我們一定要鼓勵很多企業家能夠投入到一些譬如說香港的觀光園因為去年我才剛剛跟那個證交所爭取就是說把地方團隊的案例放在那個整個那個企業的ESG裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4456.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4475.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
所以現在慢慢企業知道就是說他做地方創生可以透過ESG來提升他的企業的ESG的品質表現事實上也有引進企業的協助包括這個中華投資公司他們有每年都贊助就是我們支持以後他們會贊助 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4476.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4492.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
他們當然導入一些企業的一些工序跟方法我覺得在永續就是一定要企業投入那企業要投入政府應該要做一個媒介那我們地方創生就在這裡然後我另外我是來自於雲林雲林是農業大縣在這裡我要跟那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4498.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4523.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
還有我們農業部的部長我們要請教就是因為我們的大蒜是我們雲林縣的一個重點我們在三四月都是在做採收那今年因為是氣貨變遷那知道這個過程農業部已經有做了一些措施但是我現在就是還是要在這裡跟農民發聲就是說除了 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4528.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4552.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
這個氣候變遷就變成常態了我們的存糧也太多了我們要如何來進口跟本產做一個調整不要讓農民的大蒜的價錢一直都是被壓制在很低的一個成本農業部有沒有做這樣的一個措施我跟委員報告其實大蒜的產業在雲林地區是一個非常重要的產業 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4553.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4567.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
那國產的大概4萬1千多噸然後進口大概1萬3千多噸表示說國產的還是大於進口的部分進口是補足我們國內的需求的不足但是今年好像是進口的存量還是很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4568.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4591.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
沒有,今年度的進口,因為進口是去年的部分,那是去年的部分所以在今年的部分,特別是你也關注的,在雲年的地區之前我們提出因為瞬間的採收造成一些價格低落,我們用28塊去協助這個我知道然後天然障礙,我們也開了天然障礙的一個救助 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4592.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4618.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
對這個我知道我現在要跟農業部講的就是說現在這個是氣候變遷這是一個常態那如何我們來做一個危機處理然後能做一個危機的一個評估然後提出一個政策出來我想這樣才能夠達到一個社會韌性我們一直在談的在總統常常在講我們要有社會韌性所以呢這一個評估這個我在這裡呢我就是希望我們的農業部能夠做 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4619.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4648.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
那個氣候變遷的一些配套出來好 謝謝謝謝蔡委員 謝謝卓院長下一位黃秀芳委員 徐富奎委員沈發慧委員之質詢均已書面提出請行政院書面答覆並列入紀錄刊登公報下一位請邱振金委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4658.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4662.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
主席好 我們先請我們卓院長還有我們農業部陳部長 經濟部龔部長請卓院長 陳部長 龔部長備選 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4679.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4708.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
邱委員好院長好 兩位部長好我想請問一下4月份初我們的強降雨我們投沙河溪議題15分鐘水位就漲到2公尺第二天我和鍾縣長一起就到現場去看當時也有請我們二屬的同仁一起過來其實我們看到這個問題是這樣就是25年前的河道工法當然沒有辦法應付現在的極端氣候 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4709.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4711.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
那我們看一下這個影片 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4713.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4741.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
這是一個問題另外一個問題就是說我們驅動橋被竹林雜木堵塞但是為什麼會堵塞每一次說要清魚的時候護魚團體就出來就出來說這個是我們泛島市營區的一個棲息地我想請教一下農業部管的是保育的魚經濟部管的是河道不管是魚或者是河道 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4741.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4762.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
那我想,院長,人命比較重要還是保育比較重要?我們任何的作為都是以人民的安全為優先,但是人要跟大自然相處,這也是不變的定義。當然,對,我現在意思就是說,我們每一次講到晴雨,就是碰到這些保育類的一些動物或者是魚類, |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4764.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4791.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
延遲了我們去該做的一些事情像這樣的一個嚴重的事情院長可不可以答應我們未來在這種事情方面我們是不是先考量我們人民的生命的安全所以我們在未來編的四年的縣市館河川以及更大的水流域的改善過程當中我們著眼的就是保障人民的生命財產安全這個是最重要的但是在做任何改善工程的時候要跟大自然和平相處所以要融在一起這個也是不錯的 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4793.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4813.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
對 這個當然我希望我們好好來解決這個事情啦不要每一次碰到環保議題大家就退縮了好不好該做的事情還是要做啦我跟委員報告就是遇到這種天然災害的時候特別是在非常危難的議題或其他方式的時候我們一定是以人民為優先不會說先去救這些保育業的動物這個就是絕對不會的 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4815.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4834.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
我希望這樣我們以後就秉持這個原則那天花湖水庫蓋好之後我想未來這種狀況可能就會減少那當天二合局去看的時候有四座橋需要改建那現在需要改建大概兩億多兩億多但是我們投鄉公所在財化法修改之後他每年大概多了五百萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4835.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4849.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
他的這一次的致富額就要達到四五千萬我想請教院長這個部分能不能納入在我們這個天花湖水庫興建的時候的這個整個配套的管理在這個施工上把它規劃進去不要讓地方來出這個錢嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4851.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4877.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
天花湖水庫是我們全國這個水庫珍珠串計畫很重要的一個據點如果這個串起來之後那全國的供水系統會更為安全那什麼時候會核電這個部分這個水利署經濟部他已經就天花湖水庫提出一個計畫當中我的意思就是這四座橋可不可以加在裡面行政院因為在審議當中應該很快因為有一定的流程這四座橋可不可以加進去 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4879.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4899.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
我回去再看一下這個情況你叫一個鄉公所你要叫他加四五千萬你要叫他十年不吃不喝因為原來已經送到行政院去是不是可以再加我要回去再check一下因為等於是計畫有所變更因為你叫他我們現在是叫他出18%他真的沒辦法負擔鄉鎮公所哪有這個能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4900.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4918.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
有啦 委員現在的這個財務法鄉鎮地方都出了很多現政府都有很多的經費啊好不好 這個是很緊急的問題因為你要興建這個天花湖水庫我沒有叫你另外再抓預算進來就併在裡面來處理嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4920.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4947.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
所以我剛剛提到我們回去check一下因為他等於是可能計畫要有所變更我們再來瞭解我們再來看最近這禮拜大家都應該看到聚焦馬鈴薯印度移工當然還有軍購炒得不可開交的時候大家忽略了其實魔鬼藏在細節裡面我們一個一個來看美國要賣豬肉牛肉來台灣要求不能茶廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4949.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4968.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
邊境不能多檢後市場也不能抽菸還要放寬殘留容許值這些你們都點頭答應了最離譜的是什麼連美國要求在檢驗的時候不能用隨解步驟釋放萊克多巴胺你們竟然也答應院長你知不知道這代表什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4971.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4988.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
這個檢驗的標準是跟Codex一樣的標準我們並沒有獨創一個什麼樣檢驗的標準以前我們是要水檢來做檢查川普的國際標準當然數據要好看程序要簡單那不能阻礙美國產品流通的速度院長你知道萊克多巴胺當年在藥廠開發的時候試驗的樣本是多少嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4992.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5018.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
六個那六個成年人的男性最後完成試驗的只有五個一個人因為劑量調高之後身體不適所以退出檢驗這也是歐盟跟其他地區禁用的原因那萊克多巴胺在身體裡是用結核鈦存在就像穿了這個保護罩過去我們台灣的規矩檢驗時要經過酸水解或酵素水解就是把這個保護罩去掉才能夠驗出腫瘤案 量案 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5019.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5033.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
那現在美方要求不能用水檢我們只要驗自由態在科學上就是技術性隱瞞你們準備把0.04ppm放寬到0.09那現在連這個尺都要改掉如果不水檢驗出來的0.08很可能實際含有0.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5038.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5063.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
我跟委員報告一下就是在整個邊境檢查那據我所了解那個衛福部在這裡的處理第一個部分就是你剛才講的就是拉克多巴的一個檢測方式適用水解的方式他其實是符合我們Codex標準因為我們的豬肉或者是我們也是要雙向在貿易的過程中相關的檢疫的標準要一致你不能說近來比較嚴民進黨強調是食安農林等現在變成美方壓力我們要容忍 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5067.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5095.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
我想這個部分跟我們的一定是確保我們國人的食的安全的前提之下再去檢討他的相關的一個檢測技術美國豬農要賣豬肉到中國大陸到歐盟他們可以透過美國農業部的這個USDA的這個無售肉精驗證計畫生產完全不含萊劑的產品為什麼美國人可以在中國生產這樣的無萊豬面對台灣卻要我們吞下去咧 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5096.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5118.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
我想我們台灣是在跟美國我們在做相關的貿易的過程中要有一致的標準我們台灣人的健康比大陸人低見嗎我想委員的話可能我必須稍微修正一下我們在所有的邊境的查驗跟相關的檢驗標準一定是在確保國人食安的前提之下去討論的 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5120.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5147.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
不會說任意的放寬而犧牲了國人的食的安全我們現在是美國要求什麼我們就做什麼我覺得我們的談判代表根本不是去簽約的而是去畫牙我跟委員報告我們的豬肉現在是上個飛機我們也希望銷到美國去那雙邊在豬肉的貿易之下的所有的檢測標準是要一致化的所以我們是以符合國際的一個標準來確保我們國人的食安再來我們看這個ART裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5149.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5177.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
我們台灣答應了什麼根據AIT協議第五節第五點四條之五你們承諾美國海關來台進行合規訪查我直接問美國官員進到台灣工廠需不需要檢察官陪同或者是我們官員陪同還是說他們隨時都可以進入他們來我們的領土執行他的公權力我們的法律又如何保障保護我們的這些產業院長你可以回答嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5179.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5208.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
到我們這裡來查訪必須依照我們這裡所有的規定跟標準那我們這裡的政府的公權力存在你們已經承諾讓美國海關來台進行這樣的一個合約裡面是有的那基業我這樣問我們也會到美國的地方去查場我們也會到美國的地方去查場我跟委員講因為你這邊講到是基於國安的部分所有的檢疫的部分必須去查場的部分一定是我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5209.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5231.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
符合美國的期待然後美國也符合我們的要求之下他來進行查場查場完以後我們的產品就能夠順利的輸到美國去如果沒有查場這個階段的時候後續的邊境的檢疫就非常嚴格所以我們雙邊在討論的時候這個查場是相對的都會先確保他的安全雙方都可以嗎我們可以去查他的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5232.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5255.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
我們很多像我們的牛子牛血輸進來的時候我們會到美國去看他們的廠是不是符合我們的期待不是說我們不能過去沒有說我們不能過去啊我們該查廠因為要不要查廠會根據你輸入的樣態然後該查廠的話我們一定會去查廠一定會去查廠那我再問那協議第5.4條之6的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5258.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5275.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
那如果中華民國跟中國簽署新的經貿合定美國就可以終止這份協議嘛對不對所以現在我們大陸釋出這個很多的利多我們連談都不敢談是不是因為簽了這個協議然後我們不能跟大陸去做這些合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5276.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5292.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
我想這是兩碼子的事情以我們農業來講我們重視我們的一些多元的市場的開發這是我們一直在努力的部分我們在簽任何的美國跟美國相關的農業的部分我們絕對不會考慮第三個國家是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5293.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5314.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
因為我看到這份ART的協定台灣承擔超過120項的強制義務美國卻只有不到15項連兩岸正常交流都被這個協議來鎖死民進黨是不是要我覺得我們政府不應該把我們台灣就壓單邊走到極端化應該要多元化剛剛部長也有這樣講對不對我們這個部分還是會堅持嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5317.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5330.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
我想我們一直堅持多元化的一個目標市場除了美國以外我們隨時也在跟澳洲 紐西蘭 日本還有歐盟在談所有的農產品的一個進出好那我再問 院長協議第6.1條台灣要開放並促進投資的產業包含電力 電信 礦產 基礎建設這點沒錯吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5340.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5355.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
這個雙向投資有來有往我們不管啦我們就講台灣嘛那過去這些產業是不是都是許可制跟限額制涉及這個國安審查要來我們這裡投資這種產業的過程當中也必須符合我國的法律標準規定如果他們要進來我們有說不得權利嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5359.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5387.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
我們有一定的資金的限制比例的限制甚至對象的限制我們都會有的而且這個限制都不會因為這樣而改變既然已經存在的這個限制我們都依法進行那美國如果說要進來咧如果美國說要求我們要開放呢他必須依照我們的雙方談妥的內容跟我國的法律來執行好那未來我們的能源電力關鍵資源這些產業政府的權利是可以限制還是只能管理不能拒絕 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5388.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5401.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
看看這個各該內容如果禁止外國人來投資的當然就沒有例外規定好那我再問齁這個台美MOU裡面齁企業去美國投資2500億美金這是天花板還是地板 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5402.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5414.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
這是雙方談好的一個投資的一個未來的計畫對 所以未來更多嘛所以這是2500億是最底嗎 最底價嗎不是最底價我們希望美黃希望我們有這樣的產業去讓我們鼓勵國內產業做全球的佈局 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5420.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5442.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
你6.6條規定台灣應促進策略性高科技製造外移這就是一個持續性的業務只要美國有這個需求這2500億就是第一波濟貧後續會隨著產業的集體搬遷而不斷追加這個NOU裡面也是這樣寫的沒有談到所謂這是第一波我們NOU說我們台灣企業會去美國大投資台灣政府會停 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5443.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5471.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
會去投資 ART 裡面直接寫實台灣要負責信用保證萬一賠錢或借錢 台灣政府要扛美國則出動銀行來負責貸款這就是我們台灣出保證信用保證基本上它也是一個金融的商業上的機制以前說去蓋牆 ART 現在的制度鎖定就是你的這個技術安全標準都要跟美國同步你去到那邊是一定要這樣 他們說什麼我們就要配合 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5472.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5494.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
沒有啊 這個是完全是配合我們企業界他在做立足台灣布局全球他有這樣的有訂單有這樣的期待那我們怎麼樣幫他寫因為我看到你們NOEU裡面說這個美國蓋園區ART寫得更直接變成台灣有義務要配合等於是把我們台灣最厲害的這個新竹科學園區直接布置貼上來 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5495.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5514.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
應該反過來講就是說美國要配合我們的台商在那邊獲得最好的待遇真的能夠在那邊接到訂單可是NOU說的是要提升美國本土的產能啊AIT說的是很直白喔就是說要推動美國製造所有的投資和制度最後目標只有一個就是讓美國的工廠動起來嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5515.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5530.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
這是我們產業的延伸產業力量的延伸美方從能源土地以及各種行政作業上都要強力配合我們MOU裡面說我們要多買美國的天然氣那ART直接把價格飆上去了444億美金因為天然氣我們主要是針對MOU又說了美國會給台灣232條款的官會優惠 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5536.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5561.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
那AIT把這個獎勵制度變成這個我們來招商然後給你們免稅把這些東西當誘餌讓我們台灣企業過去因為我們答應一定是我們覺得這樣對我們是有利的我們才會答應好啦我時間不夠最後再問一下這個院長我們行政院總署2026年6月就公布我們公務人員這個加薪的這個大幅調整這部分會做嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5564.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5585.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
公務人員加薪 對 對 對專業家族的大幅調整行政院的人事總署通過沒有 已經把這個計畫報到行政院去那他就會循公文的程序 學長支持嗎我們會全盤考量包括 有沒有機會在六月底明年度的 軍公交有機會挑先當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5598.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5616.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
好 謝謝邱委員 謝謝卓院長下一位吳啟明委員 蔡毅委員之質詢均已書面提出 請行政院書面答覆並列入紀錄刊登公報下一位請邱若驊委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5627.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5636.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
謝謝主席 請主席邀請行政院左院長還有公平會陳代理主委請左院長還有陳代理主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5652.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5668.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
邱委員好 院長好 院長本先有看到您在今年4月8日有出席2026Touch Taiwan的系列展那也有提到政府正在推動13項國家戰略產業以及AI新時代建設目標是讓百工百業和國人進入AI應用的時代 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5668.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5692.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
那打造全民的智慧生活圈並在兩年內協助14萬家企業升級轉型特別是中小微企業那這個方向本席也是支持的那我也要提醒院長一件事那現在AI時代已經來臨了政府的監管不能還在觀望那現在呢AI其實都已經進入到民眾的日常生活中了不管是生活還是工作上像早知道做簡報還有翻譯甚至是 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5693.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5701.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
整理會議記錄都會用這個工具把生成式AI當成日常的工具來做使用那本期也看到根據2025年台灣網路報告台灣有43.19%的民眾呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5706.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5731.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
他使用生成式AI其中8.54%的民眾他是付費訂閱來做使用的所以說這代表他不是少數人或是僅限於科技圈使用的小眾產品而是變成一種新的數位基礎工具那本系也看到了一個明顯的落差市場的機制已經成型了但目前政府在競爭治理上面呈現歸宿起步還在觀察的階段 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5732.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5758.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
公平會是到了今年3月18日才發布深層式AI競爭法的政策聲明這代表主管機關目前仍然還在整理問題建立觀察的架構而不是已經有成熟的治理工具了那院長當我們看到大家都已經在使用那企業都已經在買了那政府卻還在想著要怎麼管所以要問院長那現在深層式AI已經變成民眾的日常使用的生活工具了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5759.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5762.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
行政院還停留在觀察的階段會不會太慢了 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5763.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5792.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
報告委員我們今年所提出的這個AI新十大建設裡面就有剛剛委員所說的最終目的要建立一個全民的生活智慧圈這個是今年在AI新十大建設裡面提到的那裡面有十大項包括西光子 量子以及無人載具等等但是這個的推動這個的推動今年311億的預算也在大院審理的過程當中通過了之後我們當然可以按部就班不過我已經要求各部會 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5792.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5808.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
先做好各種的準備一旦預算通過能夠快速的上手因為我們在製造這個硬體製造上面我們是領先軟體是落後的我們現在是不是太慢了因為現在整個硬體我們是領先的軟體的這個整合是落後的可是我們現在看到在 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5809.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5835.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
在國際上歐盟已經立法了那英國他也從他也建立了監測的機制美國也開始針對這個市場啟動調查了嘛那我們台灣目前還在收集資料所以本席想要請問院長還有我們公平會主委我們什麼時候才可以進入實質的治理有沒有明確的啟程我稍微補充一下就是委員剛剛談到說我們還在收集調查其實是主要原因是在於AI這個產業目前正在快速的發展所以從公平會的角度從市場精神的角度來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5836.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5857.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
我目前不太敢太過於介入是因為它是一個動態競爭的過程所以在我們的政策聲明裡面我們特別強調我們觀察的重點是在於整個AI產業發展當中的幾個大力的因素主委您自己也提到其實這個AI的發展它的速度是非常快的我們也看到民眾覺得AI非常好又把它當作一個聊天的機器的拿來做報告然後拿來 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5858.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5878.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
做寫作的工具或是整理作為整理資料的系統可是真正市場的問題它不是在表面的服務而是在背後我們比較少去討論到的誰掌握算力雲端還有資料還有整個應用入口沒有錯吧是 這就是為什麼我們覺得我們觀察到這個問題但是同時我們也要注意到不要去扼殺企業創新的誘因 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5879.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5898.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
我知道公平會有觀察到這個問題你們自己也清楚列出七類的風險這七類的風險包括關鍵投入的要素之取得限制還有雲端業者他的自我偏好也包括了轉換成本還有搭受綑綁人才限制包括事業結合還有聯合行為這是公平會所提出的 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5898.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5915.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
我們也肯定主管機關現在也有看到深層是AI最大的問題不是誰比較好用而是未來會不會只剩下少數幾家說了算從而限制甚至掌控台灣整個社會從日常生活到商業競爭也包括學術的發展還有國家安全的整體未來 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5916.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5940.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
因為院長還有主委現在我們看到現在大家覺得AI很好用那我們習慣使用某一套AI的系統的話資料放在那邊流程也都是接在那邊的所以整個團隊就會習慣使用那一套系統那時間一久了就會出現一個問題未來會很難轉換主委您知道這個問題嗎為什麼未來會很難轉換我所謂的鎖路跟套路的效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5940.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5957.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
不過在目前這個階段我們觀察還是市場的可競爭性那你們有沒有去想到未來的轉換成本會越來越高那尤其對企業來說也是如此因為他們一旦被綁進特定的雲端系統還有模型生態系那久了平台就會牢牢掌握價格優勢 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5959.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5987.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
這個我們有掌握到首先跟委員報告就是說一旦消費者使用者被鎖入在某一個特定的使用模型裡面公民階段如果他是一個獨占者的話公民階段法是有規範可以處理的但是就目前我們現階段公平化的立場是我們要確保消費者在選擇過程當中他有足夠的替代選項可以選擇盡量避免在一開始選擇的時候就選擇錯誤然後事後被套牢這就是我們在政策說明裡面談到的可競爭性的概念 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5987.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5993.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
那你有沒有想到它未來可能會取得市場壟斷的地位這邊先請問卓院長您過去在使用電腦的時候您是用什麼系統軟體 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5996.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6017.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
電腦都是用Windows系統打開來的時候是哪一家哪一家 對是用什麼系統 牌子啊Windows 微軟系統沒有錯 都是用Windows系統那就像Windows系統一般嘛那未來不只價格會很難談而且選擇也可能會變少那到時候台灣我們面對的就不是有沒有導入AI是不是我們只剩下少數幾家可以來做使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6021.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6042.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
這個講法也是我們當初跟大院在討論AI人工智慧基本法的時候顧慮到一方面要讓它能夠研發發展一方面要對這些超越我們想像之外的要有所限制所以這個平衡現在大家都在想美國的標準歐盟歐盟的標準大家都在想這樣的平衡 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6042.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6051.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
其實簡單來講跟委員報告就是創新跟競爭如何取得平衡這是目前我們正在積極的觀察那委員所關切的問題其實我們都有持續在注意 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6051.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6078.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
那我們目前台灣的企業會不會在未來深層式AI的時代被少數的算力綁住平台你們有沒有去做過盤點像是針對它的雲端還有模型就是我們這個政策聲明其實是對業者廣泛的徵詢他們的意見所以當然算力的部分還有這個Data數據還有演算法這部分都是業者普遍關切的那我們會持續注意這個地方的發展如果說集中在某一個特定的業者那當然我們就會特別去關切 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6079.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6092.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
未來他是不是有濫用他掌握的這些優勢來排除其他競爭我們有沒有去思考我們未來是不是只剩下使用權沒有選擇權公平會你們要如何發揮功能避免有這樣的情況發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6093.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6109.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
就是剛剛跟我們講我們在一開始消費者在使用的過程當中我們盡可能確保他有替代選擇的可能就是我們所謂市場可競爭性那如果選擇以後那個被選擇對象變成一個獨佔他後續濫用消費者對他的依賴公平法是有可以來處理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6111.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6138.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
主委您也是在今年3月份在立法院公開表示目前台灣的AI生態系仍在發展的初期現階段的監管方向還是以事後為主同時也坦言AI它的演算法還有新型態市場行為可能會讓現行的法律難以做規範因此以著手研議修法其實這句話他很清楚的就在告訴大家問題不是沒有而是目前的工具還不夠還在準備中但我們都已經看到AI現在的發展那麼快速 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6139.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6156.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
可是我們沒有看到市場他的權利可能在往少數平台集中那所以當企業導入系統資料累積然後流程綁定了未來企業可能就離不開特定平台了那我們看到幾個問題到時候企業他們的資料可能就會搬不走他們模型也換不起流程也斷不開 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6157.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6180.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
到時候再來談公平競爭的話或是調整競爭的結構那代價和成本就會非常高而且影響的不只是科技產業也包含已經把AI運用在他們日常營運的中小企業所以院長要請教您既然公平會都已經承認現階段還是以事後管制為主行政院是不是應該來加大力道提高政策的成績是 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6181.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6202.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
委員今天整個的質詢的重點應該是提醒政府在這方面我們的腳步慢這確實是我剛剛說過我們在硬體製造領先軟體的融合整合我們是落後的所以現在在AI新時代建設裡面我們對主權AI還有算力中心我們也將當作十大項裡面的一個區塊要全力的來做現在我們在高雄的算力中心等等已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6203.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6231.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
出具這個雛形我們將來發展在全國各地那主權AI現在發展的比較慢但是速發部也一直朝這個方向跟國會各種的努力我希望我們有很快的速度把它整合起來我們在AI發展台灣具備優勢不過那是在硬體所以希望在軟體方面院長也可以以更前瞻更前瞻的治理方向還有更快的速度來提出一個具體的證件如果我們有主權AI能夠建立的更完整的話那我們更有自己的主權跟選擇性這個也是一個考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6232.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6255.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
主委這邊也提供給您一個建議面對深層式AI的快速擴張也希望行政院現在目前也不能只停留在原則宣示應該建立深層式AI的競爭風險跨部會盤點由國發會還有經濟部公平會速發部來共同成立一個盤點機制因為我們要定期的掌握算力雲端還有整個資料市場的集中情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6255.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6282.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
那也對大型平台他們在關鍵投入還有大售的綁定還有資料封鎖轉換成本上面的優勢我們也應該要提出更清楚的結合審查然後還有競爭治理原則跟我們包括這個AI新生態建設以及13項戰略產業我們第一個大方向大目標已經確定了我們往第二個階段就是每一個後端它都必須產生它相關的主要的產業是什麼它必須要著力的重點在哪裡它要發展的途徑 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6284.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6306.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
這個期程該怎麼樣我們才能夠編定下一階段的預算院長我們要確保就是這些本土新創還有中小企業在投入的時候他們也有公平的接取算力還有支援的機會好那接下來和院長討論數位平台那現在民眾消費的方式已經改變了不管是購物啊訂飯店還是找服務很多人都不是一家一家的找而是會先打開平台然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6306.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6325.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
到網路上面看排序看推薦這也代表一件事平台他提供的不只是資訊而是在實際決定誰先被看到還有誰排在前面誰有機會成交這已經是很多商家每天都在面對的現實公平會在2024年4月分別採訪agoda跟booking.com各100萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6326.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6348.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
那原因是兩家公司在關鍵字的廣告中呢他們使用競爭對手的名稱然後把原本要找其他業者消費者導回到自己的平台這樣的做法公平會也認定是混淆會造成混淆嘛我們的執法前提是任務關鍵字的廣告如果會造成消費者誤以為這個企業跟那個企業是彼此有關係的事實上並不是所以他誤導消費者去購買 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6349.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6366.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
他自己的平台其實對民眾來說其實很容易懂他明明要找A可是被平台半路帶去找B那其實平台的競爭他不只是在比價格那他也在比誰能掌握路口誰能攔截流量那誰能先接觸到消費者那對商家來說他們最重要的是他們不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6366.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6384.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
他們的商品不夠好而是如果平台沒有被看見他們就沒有成交的機會了那院長當平台透過攔截流量然後搜尋攔截還有攔截流量影響了交易那這已經不是單純的商業手法了嘛那而是公平競爭的問題所以政府有沒有發現這樣的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6386.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6411.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
這個公平度應該有處理的經驗你這邊難解的意思就是說因為有些比較不知名的品牌他利用關鍵比較知名的關鍵字來導引消費者去造訪他自己的網站那我們在我們的處理原則裡面我們的原則是基本上這是一個數位經濟從某個角度來看它是提供消費者一個更多元的一個角度所以但是它不能產生誤導的效果這些平台是不是多半來自跨國的公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6412.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6429.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
都有 本國的也有那請教主委之前UberEats跟Foodpanda的台灣業務結合案公平會在2024年12月25日就已經否決掉這件結合案理由是這項對限制競爭的不利益大於整體競爭的利益 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6431.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6458.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
那會顯著降低市場的競爭並可能損及合作餐廳然後還有消費者的權益那現在Uber改由裝軟投資的Grab準備再次進行收購公平會收到申請了嗎已經收到了我們現在目前正在請他們補件當中那也可以先請公平會這邊先說明你們的態度嗎我們的態度一樣就是按照公平法的分析架構來分析這個案子那這個案子跟之前的Uber Eats的案子最大的差別是在於之前的案子結合以後市佔率高達九成 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6459.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6487.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
那這個案子基本上還是維持雙戰但是很多我知道委員的關切他背後實際的控股的情況那這個就是我們審查的一個重點因為您聽到他的市佔率就是大於高達九成嘛那這也讓我們看到平台他不是越大越方便就好那當市場越集中我們談論市場的問題喔他商家的溢價空間就會變小了那平台的規則未來也會更難談嘛那消費者表面上有選擇他們其實還在懷疑同樣的一種的APP嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6488.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6515.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
那在背後的競爭者也減少了那這不只發生在外送平台也包括像是訂房還是電商廣告或其他服務平台型的服務那所以只要平台他同時掌控的流量然後他就不是一個中介而是規則的制定者那院長公平會過去已經透過像這樣子的外送平台結合案清楚示警平台過度集中會對消費者有危害那行政院有沒有更完整的數位治理競爭策略呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6517.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6534.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
剛剛主委所說的如果這種合併併購的方式它背後的力量我們必須清楚去查詢出來避免造成壟斷而造成不公平的競爭或是這個減損了市場的競爭能力那這個部分這個公平會議已經有現有的機制我希望公平會議在這個事件上要 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6536.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6557.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
加嚴來認清這個事實我們在審查一定會把這個背後實際的控股情況對 因為現在大量的交易都已經移到平台上面了那本席這邊也希望院長進行責成各部會 剛才本席有提到的像針對演算法 然後還有平台的排序規則與機制來責成各部會 建立一個共同判斷的機制好的 謝謝謝謝邱委員 謝謝卓院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6564.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6567.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
下一位請陳玉珍委員質詢謝謝主席 我們請這個卓院長請卓院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6590.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6616.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
前一陣子大陸提出惠台實驗政策其中有幾項跟金門有相關的就是有關通水、通電、通橋、通氣院長的態度如何有部分已經是在實施了水的部分已經實施了其他的我們還是認為我們跟地方政府好好的來商量在國家安全優先的考量底下如果確保當地民眾跟整個國防的重要的目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6617.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6624.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
我們逐項來探討通水的部分 您知道現在大陸供水占基本每天的水量是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6625.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6650.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
金門的供水現在每天大概需要2.6萬噸吧那現在大陸佔來的水是2.2萬噸但是我們自己的能量是可以調整的可以有彈性的我們先講現在的情形好嗎這個數據大家應該也都有了去年這個時候我也質詢過這個水的議題去年大陸的水供到金門就每日的供水量金門的水量裡頭有84%來自大陸供水 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6652.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6675.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
那到了今年這是我們的數據到今年115年4月現在已經達到88%了因為我們不要用地下水源避免這個地層下陷所以現在以前大陸的水站大陸供水站基本每日用水量的八成現在已經達到近九成了那所以其他的部分包括海淡湖庫都比例非常的低這個是一個現在事實對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6676.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6702.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
是的現在是一個事實嗎那我們一直剛剛院長也有在講到這個這個就是國家安全啊一直政府上如果中國的飲水萬一短期間斷掉的話地下水是可以供應補習的啦地下現在佔8%0%他八成多每天抽如果你說中國大陸今天如果把水源口關起來他今天我們一天我們地下水可以抽兩萬多噸是嗎那可以抽多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6703.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6718.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
對 那當然我們還是不希望這樣啦如果有這樣情形發生的話可以收多久啊所以我們現在為什麼啟動有那個海淡海淡廠嘛齁去年我就執行過這個議題啦那個郭智慧部長那時候經濟部長吧他有答應要做海淡廠現在進度呢現在在可行性分析 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6718.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6738.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
可行性分析我們現在幫這個地方政府代辦因為可行性我知道我有看到你們現在都肯定那我們現在海灘廠只有站大概只有一個廠四千多噸四千噸嘛那你現在未來的可行性分析你要做幾個呢可能會提升到目前是規劃是三萬噸多少三萬噸 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6739.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6752.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
三萬噸一個三萬噸的廠嗎一個三萬噸的廠嗎就是每天可以產這個很重要但是我沒有看到奇怪國發會國發會覺得這不重要是沒有寫到的計畫你看看金門 馬祖 澎湖三個離島 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6754.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6771.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
你看金馬棚三個離島的比較棚屋有11座 馬祖有2座棚屋大部分馬祖都是海盪 我們沒有嘛我們用大陸供水嘛但是馬祖還要再做 棚屋還要做 金門沒有啊我們看到114年到119年的供水改善計畫的時候怎麼沒有這個計畫呢還是要看實際需求啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6773.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6799.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
實際上現在沒有需求啊但是為了國家安全啊為了供水的韌性啊 應該要做啊所以我們現在做可行性分析沒有沒有 請問院長這個我作為委員報告現在經濟部水利署這個海淡廠的規劃還需要金門縣政府來一起把可行性評估給它完成所以中央地方是要合作做這件事情的政策很重要 你的政策決定很重要嘛現在沒有需求 因為全部的水都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6799.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6806.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
八成 九成都是大陸來的但是這個海戰場已經在進入一個可信心民主的準備階段所以您覺得需不需要做 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6807.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6826.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
長遠來看是需要做是需要做嘛 為了不要萬一哪一天到處都關起來需要做 那需要做我也支持做這是韌性嘛 大家都在講韌性做 請問計畫在哪裡114年到119年都沒有寫進來啊沒有 現在已經有可行性的這個計畫在規劃了然後呢 供水計劃175年啊 114到19寫在哪裡呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6829.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6846.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
不是不是 他現在是可行性的研究當中可行性研究的話就是什麼時候可以研究完成年底今年年底喔一個計畫的可行性研究事實上要一段時間做地質的了解然後等等研究的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6847.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6867.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
然後接著呢我們可能有海戰場就避免我們的韌性被掐住的時候到什麼時候會完整那個是可行性研究我說從可行性研究開始做到結束大概要多久那要看可行性的研究才能夠知道所以可行性研究有可能是不可行的 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6869.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6884.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
通常我們希望克服一些困難有困難就把它克服掉所以政策上我們院長是支持的我想知道政策變好 政策是支持這個是水的部分那我們希望這個動作可以加速不然的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6886.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6899.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
明天關水龍頭如果關個一個月不會 那個滴下水可以 現在滴下水可以支應我知道滴下水可以啊 你可以供應多久嘛這是供應多久的問題嘛然後你從台灣運過來很遠嘛所以委員的意思是中國政府隨時會把水關掉嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6901.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6929.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
不是抵制部來事務有以待之好不好你把他定位你把他定位為第一我沒有這樣講但是你把他定位做境外抵制我們就要做更多的準備地方的本來就應該自給自足嘛如果一個政權不以人民的生計為優先考量的話那不值得你這麼對他有信心沒錯 所以政權應該以人民生計為優先考量我們就要來講電我們來講電好嗎水的部分沖化已經那麼多年限制多年那所以電的話是不是現在台電在幫我們做電廠做得不錯所以在這肯定 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6929.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6945.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
那現在我們的電大部分還是自給自足但是每一年政府也是在台電虧了滿多錢應該說補貼很多錢好幾十億那待會也要供電這個我們接受嗎以地方的民生為考量接受嗎沒有啊現在我是問院長我在問政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6946.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6971.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
台電做得很好這點我們肯定我們就盡量是用自己的發電來滿足自己民生的需求但是如果接電我們是不是先接先來用對不對然後我們自己也要夠我的意思說我們先用他的我們自己也夠我們每年先省二三十億為我們中華民國政府先省二三十億現行的法規啊現在我們的法令上還是不允許這個行動不允許喔那所以如果政府想要做是不是法規上應該做修改 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6972.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6987.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
政府想要做的就是盡量把離島的電力發展水電是一樣的現在水可以接我想電爐也可以接電也可以接然後接著我們自己也建立我們自主供應的能力這個是並行不備的現在自主供應能力是有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6988.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7006.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
是 沒錯那產業如果繼續發展可能是不足嘛所以你們還要做11場12場11個12號機組嘛我聽說水進來已經如果大陸也接我們馬上一年省2、3、11萬一他把電也關起來我們也有自主的能力我說我們在這個同時同步並行沒有不好啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7007.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7023.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
院長你了解我先問院長公電驗法的規定目前是不允許所以修法可以吧那我們來修法我們來協助修法修法是說地方產業民生有這個需求不是啦那目前為止在離島尤其對金門跟其他離島我們在供電的系統上面你怎麼會覺得民生沒這個需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7023.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7050.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
目前的供應量是足夠的那你就看得太不夠遠啦現在台灣要做專利中心就是電不夠啊如果我們要接電過來我們有充足的電我們馬上也可以設立專利中心再把我們的路傳輸出去啊這我前天跟一個NVIDIA人討論到這個議題啊他說台灣就是電力不夠啊因為我們現在的供應量可以足以供...我知道我知道 我沒有說不夠那個部長我今天沒有說你不夠我也很肯定台電 謝謝我是在問政策的問題第三個 通氣嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7051.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7063.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
對不對 現在金門用怎麼樣發電院長金門怎麼發電主要是 院長 你要當院長是不是我問院長好不好 請他回答院長金門現在怎麼發電 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7064.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7089.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
現在燃油的發電 燃油嘛 用柴油燒燒燒成電嘛這樣是不是很大的汙染 重油啦重油也有 柴油也有 對 是很大的汙染 碳排量是不是很大因為我們也還有金酒公司啊這樣 因為它規模沒有那麼大啦規模不大 所以基本百分之那個柴油發電會造成空氣汙染嘛所以因為它規模不大 所以我們就必須忍受空氣汙染嗎我們基本的費就必須用費發電嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7090.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7119.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
但是基本上這個你不要回答我要問院長政策問題我肯定部長我肯定這個台電的表現謝謝現在這個水幫我們做好我想問政策問題我的意思是說氣這個東西也重要我們不一定要從大陸接其實沒有一定要說因為方便省錢這是從經濟利益考量那如果可以的話院長對於我們基本這個天然氣是幫我們做這個比如說我們也做一個接收站我們也希望可以接天然氣是不是也幫我們做一個可行性評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7120.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7146.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
如果民生跟產業有需要當然有需要 現在用柴油發電難道你只要用油發電嗎請經濟部請先去評估當地的需求那我們在如何解決目前的需求現在是不是用油在發電那是不是會造成空氣汙染以全球你們現在整個我們整個中華民國在講什麼減碳啊對不對 然後要蒸汽啊台灣大部分都用天然氣啊為什麼我還是要用柴油在發電呢第一個很貴 對不對 很貴 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7149.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7167.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
我們在思考有沒有比較環保的發電方式可以啊 如果有其他的 如果你還有更好的方法我們也支持啊我沒有說 天然氣是一個選項這是政府在推的嘛那你要把金門算這是台澎金馬的一部分台灣在做金門也應該跟著走啊我們為什麼一直要用油發電油發電很多空氣汙染啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7169.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7182.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
費會受到影響啊二次能源轉型是我們要全國來發展這個多元發展綠能我支持啊那金門的部門你怎麼跟我們幫忙金門當地地區也有相當的環境可以做這個工作因為現在天然氣一部機組就130萬千瓦 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7185.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7205.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
事實上遠遠超過這個金門地區的這個需求你說我們不需要我們不需要你怎麼不知道欸人家如果NVIDIA到金門設算力中心呢這個他就需要很多的電然後在金門設算力中心以後他運算台灣都不夠電啊所以他沒有辦法設啊你說前你剛剛我還在前一個委員質詢的時候還說全台各地你都要這樣發展啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7206.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7225.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
目前已經比較明確是在台北市台北市是設一個他的辦公室好不好我還特別問了一下不是在台北市說他是辦公室問題是電力不夠要有電嘛要有電那你現在跟我講說金門不需要那麼多電我需要你如果我有電我就可以做更進步的東西啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7226.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7254.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
你怎麼會反過來限制我們呢沒有現在需要現在是夠的我剛才提到過了現在可以現在就是產業不夠發展嘛跟委員報告我們在全國六大產業生活區當中金門離島我們是列為低碳生活離島那低碳你還給我燒柴油你會不會有點矛盾所以我說我們可以朝二次能源發展的多元綠能發展那打算怎麼做更具體一點給我具體的答案怎麼做你不要口號啊低碳啊熱火啊然後燒柴油 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7256.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7280.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
燒柴油發電真的 現在是燒柴油發電未來也許可以思考用氫能的方式氫能是不是 氫能好像我也研究過現在AI很進步所以我也上網查了一下這個氫能好像還沒有到那個階段所以你現在就要給我們解決的方法那你做一個評估好嗎我今天不要答案你告訴我你給我就是新的這個能源就是說或者是天然氣也可以吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7281.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7304.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
做接收站 做管線就不要讓金門 要讓金門走向低碳島那你不要用柴油再燒油來發電啊這樣是做不到的金門現在這個用電量跟未來的蓄電趨勢底下我們進一步來研究在二次能源轉型的情況底下如何來逐年檢討是否降低它整個燃油技術逐年要快一點 這個題目非常好可以快一點嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7305.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7323.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
好嗎可以嗎至少在我們賴清德總統2028年要競選年的時候有一個很好的答案出現啊這樣老百姓會覺得這個的確有在地方幫金門做事情嘛這個盡快給我們答案好不好趕快一個大的方向出來專家學者這麼多現在我們請經濟部討論這個農業的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7328.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7352.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
我覺得 院長我覺得水可以接電理論上接每年先省個30億然後如果他真的怎麼樣我們也有可以發電的這個我們沒有吃虧你知道嗎那先沾一點便宜也沒有什麼關係也沒影響我們自主有供電能力這不是吃虧的問題這一次吃虧就不得了了不會吃虧你本身有自主的供應能力你也有自主的供應能力所以我們要自主的供應能力那在這時如果接個電每年先省30億是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7354.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7376.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
政府還是有能力把離島的各項基礎建設做好我來幫助你修法沒關係我們政府還是有能力把離島的基礎建設都做好是是是 海灘廠要趕快那這是低碳啊 低碳要趕快做那個部長 經濟部長這個農業的部分齁在地農業發展 高粱齁金門高粱是農業保險齁以前投保率很高啦現在非常的低 你知道原因嗎金門高粱 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7377.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7404.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
我第一個跟委員報告就是之前的保險的部分因為當初的產量比較低所以所以他反而不容易得到理賠那現在產量比較高了所以我們現在正在積極的跟跟我們金門的這些農民講那我特別要感謝委員因為金門的高粱高粱酒有沒有是來自於台灣的這些高粱那也感謝委員這樣的一個促成 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7404.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7414.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
那持續的我們對於金門本身包括高粱包括小麥的部分我們現在要先去處理什麼他的基本的產量跟損失的數據有這個數據才能設計保險那我們現在在算他的產量跟損失的數據 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7426.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7451.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
一起算一下 包括現在兩個產業 肉牛跟乳牛 乳牛也列入嘛肉牛這個保險的部分 因為這是一個可以發展的產業對 酪農也是一樣 我想酪農的部分我們會比照肉牛也是一樣 我們會比照台灣的制度這個是不是也列入那個農業保險的部分 趕快幫我們評估一下好嗎我們現在全部在評估金門有的這些產品請你盡快做好嗎 好你有概念喔 好 那個最後一題 這個院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7452.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7478.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
部長不用了 院長 這個現在不是開放了上海的已經到金門去採線團了 上海早就開放到金門旅遊昨天剛剛到金門去採線我想知道現在不是說直航嗎 直航什麼幾個點28個點幾個點包機 我想說上海人到金門旅遊實在是很不方便飛到廈門再坐船 很麻煩你是不是幫我考慮一下 如果上海可以直接包機到金門來旅遊金門也可以做一個兩岸一個節點 金門現在就是一個節點兩岸的交流只要合乎對等 我們都願意 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7479.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7491.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
而且我希望雙方的小兩會能夠馬上展開小兩會大陸已經提出來了那你們跟大家討論我說對於上海開包機到金門旅遊這個你應該可以評估嗎這個可以評估嗎確保他來或是我們去就要長期是是是好 謝謝謝謝陳委員 謝謝卓院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7510.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7513.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
發言會經濟組織諮詢已諮詢完畢休息十分鐘休息之後進行財政組織諮詢現在休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
8116.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
8120.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
法院會現在繼續開會進行財政組織諮詢首先請吳委員秉瑞諮詢主席麻煩請行政院卓院長請卓院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
8152.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
8171.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
台湾跟美国的关税谈判之前很辛苦达成很好的成绩但是因为事情的演变川普的对等关税被美国的最高法院宣布是违宪 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
8172.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
8193.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
現在衍生說我們這個要重談那重談原因就是因為既然不能用對等關稅所以美國現在就是川普政府就都用301條款特別301條款調查進行那你可以跟我們講說大概什麼時程我們台灣可以跟美國完成這個特別301條款調查之後確定雙方的關稅嗎時間性怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
8200.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
8223.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
美方在4月28號左右跟5月初5月5號會展開兩場的公聽會分別針對產能過剩以及強迫勞動那之後完成之後的一段時間應該一週內我們就會如果對我方有提出一些什麼樣的一些意見的話我們會據事實來駕以說明那之後進行下去因為美方是對很多國家產生這樣的一個的調查所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
8225.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
8247.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
我們預判估計應該是到7月左右看能不能達到一個最終的一個結果第一個齁其實就商界來講他們很擔心的是不確定你一方面當然關稅高我們是很難過但是不確定也是另外一個問題你知道嗎因為我舉個例子 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
8248.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
8264.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
跟汽車業有關的業者就在講說大家都在等關稅什麼時候確定大家都在期待說美國的車主我來台灣可以進口關稅降低是不是可以買到便宜車所以使得今年的市場上車輛的購買目前就陷於比較遲緩的狀況這就造成這個產業上面他們的困擾 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
8273.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
8278.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
那你這樣這個有沒有可能可以早一點如果不涉及這個你剛剛講的那兩個所謂勞動的條件跟那個請消的問題這方面的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
8285.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
8310.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
哪一部分產業能夠快一點現在我們的最大的目的是一段時間能夠早一些來確定讓業者安心第二個我們更期待的是我們有沒有辦法確保到我們當初所談的R的內容確認那個內容以及確保我們所得到的優惠待遇當初談判的那個內容我個人認為是對台灣很有利 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
8312.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
8333.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
如果能夠確保在這個301條款調查之後能夠確保的話那當然是非常好那你對這方面的信心度到哪裡因為我們當初爭取到15%而且不疊加讓我們的競爭力是得到一個相當好的一個支撐同時有我們對我們國家單獨豁免的項目正是我們最重要的一些產業那現在它 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
8334.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
8356.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
這個IPA作廢之後其中的122是很多的品項是對全球都豁免了我們包括在內相反的有一些單獨對我們豁免的這個品項目前是沒有得到豁免所以我們還是認為回到ART的內容來講對我們國家的競爭力以及產業的保護應該是最完整而周到的所以朝這個方向來做那這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
8358.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
8368.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
這樣子的進行程度我是覺得應該多讓國人了解就是說我們進行的我們政府談判的這個方向對台灣有利的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8370.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8397.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
在ART的談判過程當中如果我們有到美方去做這個實體的會談我們之前 之後以及回來之後我們都會向國人做一些清楚的交代但當中有很多的視訊會議或是公文來來往往就比較沒有辦法但是一旦有重大的突破我們第一個會向產業來做說明所以我們對產業會做很多關懷的這個座談會 關懷之旅希望他們能夠做說明同時我們未來我們也希望跟國人做充分的說明因為你這樣做很好但是就在 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8398.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8425.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
給我的感覺因為我比較注意這一方面的新聞因為我們是在財政委員會就一直覺得這一方面的說明好像對社會的說明還不是很充足是不是可以加強我會請談判團隊無論是副院長辦公室或是OTM或是經濟部能夠跟我們大院裡面的各委員或是委員會來進行一個必要的說明那相關需要機密的部分我們再共同來維護院長我要跟你講一個概念 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8426.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8450.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
有一個概念叫做租稅法定主義那原因是哪裡這是跟從英國的大革命開始跟英國革命有關因為古時候的國王王權很高他要跟諸侯徵稅要跟人徵稅他就拿了嘛那後來因為打英法百年戰爭實在花費太大了後來諸侯受不了所以起來大革命那大革命之後最後就簽訂 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8451.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8478.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
過程最後就是簽訂這個大憲章最後就是我如果要徵稅要國會同意那在台灣在民主時代來了要徵稅要國會同意這個是第一個就是法律保留原則稅一定是法律保留原則你所有要增加國民的負擔必須跟國民之間有一個間接的契約關係那這間接的契約關係就是國民選出的國會民意代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8479.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8496.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
能夠同意你要徵稅的這個法律通過這樣你才能徵稅所以我們在租稅方面就叫做租稅法定主義租稅法定主義衍生了一個結果就是你的稅能不能收全部都是要法律規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8498.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8517.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
但是倒過來講法律規定之後你的稅也不能不收啊我現在舉個例子你現在的消費稅是5%你也不能說我今天行政院覺得我錢夠了所以我不要收5%我收4%或是說我哪一個地方就把你免掉除非經過修法對除非法律我是說法律保留原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8519.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8539.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
所以現在有一個很錯誤的觀念大家都已經因循這個錯誤的觀念我要在這個地方提醒你稅沒有什麼超徵的問題因為它全部都是法律的規定法律規定你該徵你就得徵啊所以沒有超徵徵數超過預算數但是徵收到的實質數額超過這個去年在 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8548.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8576.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
在決定今年度預算時候的預算的收入數估計數那預算數是一個估計啊我舉個例子我今年覺得我今年應該要自己估計我今年應該要賺200萬台幣結果到了年底結算一下我居然賺到240萬可能是因為我的這個營業額增高了那我可不可以講說多賺40萬我就不要就退還 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8577.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8602.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
所以剛剛講的租稅法定主義租稅保留原則就稅沒有什麼今天坦白講如果國家如果我們的政府所以法律沒有規定的稅多收一塊錢那個都是不可以的所以我在跟你講一個基本的觀念這個我們已經溝通過很多次了沒有超徵這個概念我聽你的說法非常正確那是實徵數高於預算數 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8603.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8623.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
那為什麼會預算數會做這個保守的估計呢這個第一個我們的台灣的公務人員就是在這一方面觀念是基本上是比較保守他希望能夠盡量能夠接近第二個他去年邊境年度的預算的時候他用的是前年的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8625.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8634.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
你知道嗎 用前年的資料來然後在去年的年中開始編列預算其實是去年的年初就開始編了然後要用在今年嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8635.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8664.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
所以這個訊息有落差兩年的這個問題然後他通常又不敢把那個GDP增長像去年我們增加了8點多的GDP那今年估計可能要增加7點多那這個數額是很大的但是他在編預算的時候他不敢這麼樂觀啊他都會想得比較保守啊所以那個預算數既然依照剛剛的觀念其實不會影響到實收的稅額 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8665.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8686.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
所以他就認為說孤寶守點也不要緊不過我昨天看到一個很擔憂的問題我們在野黨的同仁一個很偉大的發明說因為去年因為被他們這樣弄之後又普發了一萬塊還拿了一萬塊的新台幣在那邊說你看領錢多好啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8688.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8716.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
他覺得腸道的甜頭他覺得那個對於他在選舉上在罷免上對於選民的這個投票他們自認為是有影響所以他現在要把它入法化把錯誤的觀念入法化說以後啊我知道實收的預算實收的稅額比預算數高出15%以上的話他變成要把它入法說以後就是直接還稅於民這個也是錯誤的觀念 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8717.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8742.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
因為普發一萬塊錢連那個沒有繳稅的小朋友肚子裡的嬰兒都有啊那不是還稅於民嗎因為所謂還稅於民的概念是把已經徵收的稅款退還給繳稅的人啊如果這個是對的話那誰會退最多我認為各個法人台積電會退最多啦但事實上領到錢是自然人一個人領一萬塊嘛對不對那照理來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8743.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8748.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
行政權的核心就是經費、預算跟人事 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8749.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8777.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
那他現在把你這個預算的部分這樣弄而且用錯誤的觀念一直延伸一直延伸一直往前這樣子無限的這樣推演這錯誤的觀念如何推如何能夠匡正觀念先正確如果我們的社會因為遇到疫情遇到什麼天然災害有需要的時候行政院認為我的預算足夠我的經費足夠我願意把這一部分的錢直接 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8778.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8806.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
給我們的國民這是可以的但是必須是行政院提出而不是立法院提出因為立法院憲法有規定不可以為增加預算室提案啊那不能為增加預算室提案那我立一個法強迫你把錢拿出來可以嗎因為真正要發給會的人行政院嘛對不對所以我是覺得你們第一個他現在不經過委員會討論要直接進副二讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8807.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8833.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
這些人不講道理其實我覺得他們也不是不懂他們在做政治操作委員的講法非常的正確去年我們也講過比如說如果時增數超過預算數會造成稅基剩餘所以剩餘的使用我們是有限制有規定的必須先還債等等它有一套規定的再來全國要做這麼大的公共的建設像現在已經有計畫來還沒核定的軌道建設超過6000億以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8834.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8855.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
那如果錢都花給大家那這個公共建設重大的公共建設是無法來支應的況且還有很多的國防還有很多的社會福利我們每年要編足夠的預算在裡面那如果可以有時增數超過預算數的稅益剩餘我們在往後就可以下一年度增加這個福利啦增加建設啦增加其他種種而不是這樣把它散出去但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8856.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8882.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
終究是來自人民努力跟產業努力的結果我們一定是把它放到對人民對產業有利的方向去這個前提不會錯而且這個預算會讓貧富懸殊的這個差距可以縮減我們會調節的作用你用這個普發一萬塊錢的這個對於這個貧富縮減的那個效益不大啦所以他當然有諸多的考量但是我現在在跟你講說我最後那一句話他們現在在做政治的操作啦為什麼因為11月28號選舉又來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8884.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8903.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
所以他們現在進夫惡毒希望行政院反對說你這個沒有道理然後希望民進黨黨團反對這個沒有道理不應該是這個樣子他們就可以出去跟選民訴求你看我們直接要給你們一萬塊錢啊我們要直接給你們錢啊是民進黨在反對民進黨在黨啊那我現在是要說 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8904.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8928.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
我們如果了解他背後的動機是這樣子的話你要有以待之啊你要怎麼處理呢這個是不是要經過好好的討論不然很容易因為一般的民眾不能夠了解那麼多他沒有辦法了解那麼多所以人家在野黨要國民黨跟民眾黨加起來要直接又要把多收的稅金要直接給我們結果行政院在反對那到時候你 你要怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8929.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8949.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
所以這種政治操作又來啦以今年的預算來看我們也是因為去年這樣的處理我們今年舉債了將近3000億如果特別預算的話是超過4000億當國家把一筆錢用這樣的普發的方式出去之後我們要做公共建設等等就必須去舉債而來那對國家來講是得不償失啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8949.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8973.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
對於人民來講也許獲得了一部分的這種現金但是整個國家的基礎建設重大的發展是因而停滯的我們認為我們應該有必要有需要再強加說明這個部分好另外一點就是說他現在抓的點是你的時增數高於預算數超過15%嘛那然後另外一個角度是你預算編列的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8974.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
9001.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
你的稅數不要編的這麼的保守莊部長在身邊我跟他講過很多次了你要把未來的這兩年經濟成長率的這個增加值要估算在內而且我們的台灣的公司台灣的全體人民這麼的努力時我們的企業賺大錢賺大錢之後將來鼓勵發給股東之後還會個人所得稅所以那個有遞延效應 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
9002.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
9030.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
我是覺得我們財政部當然有這個能力只是大家不要太保守太保守就會產生這個結果其實這個問題的來源很長就是從那個什麼叫做稅改聯盟那稅改聯盟你就知道是什麼一回事嘛那其實是一個個案那個個案是因為他不願意繳稅他要把那個進施費當作你們當作說這等於是補習班的交的補習費類似這樣要收稅結果他說這個是證據他全部都不要繳 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
9032.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
9052.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
問題是從那邊來的啊所以一直錯誤的觀念一直被引導一直被引導我覺得財政部有義務要把這個做清楚的說明是好我們在稅收的估測上我們應該更精進然後做更接近事實的一個估測我相信會比較好好我們大家一起加油好不好我們要講謝謝委員謝謝謝謝吳委員謝謝卓院長下一位請廖先祥委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
9072.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
9079.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
好 謝謝主席 麻煩邀請我們卓院長請卓院長 以及我們的莊部長莊部長請備詢廖維好院長好 部長好這個我等一下要講的話雖然說我不一定認同但是我先順著院長的你們行政院或者是院長的一些法律的見解來討論這件事情也就是說李曾秀委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
9103.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
9118.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
我們之前行政院認為是有外國的國籍也就是說中華人民共和國的國籍他沒有放棄所以說他違反國籍法第20條的規定我們的當初的說法大概是這樣子在李貞秀委員這個議題上原則上大概是這樣沒錯吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
9119.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
9147.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
他沒有完成這個行為所以他有外國籍我們當初這樣認為那同樣的我想請問一下院長或者是部長如果說我們把這個大陸地區視為中華人民共和國的話那我們的台灣人如果在大陸無論是就業還是經商他的個人所得稅可不可以比照所得基本稅額條例的第12條的 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
9149.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
9167.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
國外收入來課稅我想這個部分對於這個課稅的部分相關的法規都有一些明確的規定那大陸地區有大陸地區的一個依照兩岸條例的一些規定是現行的規定是依照兩岸人民關係條例應該是大概24條的一個規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
9169.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
9193.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
那沒關係我現在就是順著院長之前在李貞秀委員這個個案上面的法律的見解我們把大陸地區視為一個國家中華人民共和國一個外國那為什麼我們台灣人民在外國的所得沒有辦法依照所得基本稅額條例的第12條的非中華民國來源所得的辦法來課稅院長可以回答這個問題嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
9194.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
9214.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
雙方的政治情勢的複雜性是歷史造成的我們正一步一步在釐清這個事實像李貞秀女士她的案例她不僅是國籍法在兩岸人民國籍條例當中她也沒有入籍十年的規定她也沒有達到我們單純討論國籍法我們行政院認為她違反國籍法還是你現在突然認為她沒有違反國籍法了 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
9218.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
9224.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
所以您認為他違反國籍法那依照您的法例那他有外國籍的身份那同樣的我們中華民國的國民在那邊的所得為什麼沒有辦法當作國外的所得 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9235.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9253.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
因為剛剛部長提到了科稅的原則有科稅稅法的各種的規定在聯合人民關係條例當中他有特殊的規定陸執配偶來我們這邊取的身分證他一樣有聯合人民關係條例但是我們當初沒有採納我們是用國籍法當作主要的訴求他要參選是一回事陸執來陸配來陸執是一回事來陸執他要參選是一回事 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9259.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9273.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
是啊那剛剛您就說了他違反國籍法嘛對不對我順著您的法令講違反國籍法有外國國籍對任何國籍都一樣外國的地方的所得沒有辦法當作國外的所得而是要依照兩岸人民關係條例的 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9275.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9295.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
這個規定來課稅那回到李征秀那為什麼李征秀不是依照兩岸人民關係條例的權利來參政你要參選你要當選必須在上選之前你必須放棄國籍當選之後的一年你要完成這個也規定的啊你不要放這個規定不去執行啊我順著您的法理嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9297.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9312.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
他有外國國籍嘛那稅法一樣啊 所得基本條例嘛您看一下嘛 第12條非中華民國來源所得嘛那就可以依照第12條來辦嘛那為什麼我們在大陸的所得不能依照第12條來辦呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9315.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9336.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
我們的法律見解應該要一致吧就是說我剛剛已經講我先不認同我已經有說我先不認同你們的見解但是就算我不認同我也依照您的法律見解來探討除了李貞修案的其他的這個現在要講的課稅的問題委員我們的講法你可以有不同的這個主張或是這個討論但是國籍法以及對於參選人資格的這個規定是 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9340.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9351.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
明明有寫在裡面的所以我尊重您的不用一直跳回來我就尊重您的見解所以為什麼我們台灣人在外國的所得沒有辦法依照所得基本稅額條例第12條這剛剛部長說過兩岸聯合國關係條例另有規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9355.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9377.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
參政也一樣兩岸人民關係條例利用規定啊如果大陸地區的什麼事情都用這個兩岸人民關係條例來講的話那自然會有國際法的問題嘛但既然我們扯到其他法了那就代表說我們大陸籍人士他也可以用其他法嘛對不對沒有你參政可以看國際法那為什麼繳稅我不能看所有的基本稅和條例 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9378.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9396.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
國籍法規定你參選當選之前就職之前你必須放棄對啊 這就是民文規定啊有什麼好爭執的呢大陸籍的人民可以適用國籍法嘛對不對那為什麼不能適用所得基本稅額條例的這個國外所得非中華民國所得稅的部分另外有稅的規定啊選舉有選舉的規定啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9399.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9427.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
院長我只是要提醒一下院長啦這個我們兩岸的關係當然是特別的那當您要決定要把一件事情把兩岸的從兩岸關係的條例裡面把它抽出來那你就會造成很多其他的一個問題就像我今天所提的這個所得基本稅的條例就只是其中一個問題如果你把它當作國外那為什麼它不能比照其他的國外來課稅呢這個就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9429.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9452.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
如何科稅有科稅的規定如何選舉公職有選舉公職的規定我想我點出了一個問題就是兩岸現在的一個問題那也是要政府要面對的問題雖然說我剛剛講了我不認同你的法律見解但是我依照你的法律見解在執行中華民國法律的時候在其他的法條上面就會出現其他的問題可以不認同但是你不能不認定法律的條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9453.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9482.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
我就剛講我就認同你法律條文你要認同所以說跳回來為什麼不能當作國外所得這是我們要去思考的一個法律問題好那下一個這個比較下面的事情你可以比較放心了這個你不用那麼緊張討論一些比較有關兩岸的事情我們要棒球的事情我們棒球的這個發展那其實在大巨蛋遠雄大巨蛋 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9484.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9495.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
這個開幕了之後那其實是一個里程碑那其實國內的棒球迷或者是球團還有一個下一個里程碑您猜猜看是什麼有關於球場的一個建制自建球場 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9496.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9519.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
我們現在所有的球團所使用的球場都是跟政府租或者是跟政府去做OT甚至是大巨蛋,大巨蛋也算是租就是變成民間的嘛對不對就變成說球團對於這一個球場的主導權常常是不夠的導致在使用上面會出現問題比如說前一陣子發生的台南亞太球場發生一些爭議那就會變成說 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9521.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9534.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
球團他很多事情他沒有辦法完成按照自己的想法來做一些規範比照我們國外就有不同的做法我們可以看一下國外的這個下兩張日本的北海道的一個球場 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9535.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9563.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
因為他們跟地方政府的關係不好啦都是跟地方政府關係不好所以他搬家了他搬到另外一個地方然後自建了一個球場那看下一張這在美國其實更加盛行美國其實球團自建球場已經是非常的平常的一個事情了那我想在這邊先暫停一下先請教一下部長可不可以跟院長報告一下說如果說我們的球團自建球場那自建球場的這個球場他的資本的 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9565.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9581.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
折舊照現行的規定應該怎麼算我想這個部分你提的這個個案一個第一個球團要自建球場他是以什麼樣的模式比如說以台北的大巨蛋來說他是透過促餐的VOT的部分來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9581.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9601.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
那至於您提到球團整個費用的怎麼支付我想相關法規裡面有明確的規定那這個部分我可能在手邊沒有資料大概啦我講了我查過資料大概是每年1.5%的一個折舊率所以大概要60年左右的時間才能夠完全攤提掉這個成本那國外的做法是怎麼樣我們參考一下美國 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9602.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9630.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
跟日本他們其實都突破了稅法上的一個限制因為你第一一開始球團的興建的時候會有大額的投資那投資這個投資如果說你要分60年才能攤提完的話這個對於未來稅負的減免他其實要花很長的時間才能夠把這個稅負減免完那加上通貨膨脹那這折抵的稅率的比例就更低了那我們有沒有可能就是說球隊要制建球場當然有很多很多的因素但我們今天在討論財政議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9631.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9660.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
那自建球場有一個很大的因素也是國外就看到了就是折舊率的算法有沒有辦法來參考美國或日本他們在第一年就給他100%的一個折舊讓這個球團在一開始初期的時候他就有比較多的一個現金流能夠來做支撐跟營運這樣子的想法不曉得院長您的想法我想委員您提出這樣的議題其實我覺得我們可以事後再來做討論跟演繹自己折舊率怎麼算 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9661.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9688.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
在會計作業上的規定規範是有國際的規範那以及在稅法上是怎麼規定我覺得可以再做另外的一個進一步的一個討論跟了解那院長您聽完部長的說明之後您的想法怎麼樣我們要政府掏錢那就完全民間自己去做那也是未來體育發展勢必會朝美國跟日本這樣球團自建球場那這個就是未來會遇到的其中一個問題我們現在能不能及早的來討論讓球團有更高的意願來 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9690.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9695.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
無論是在經營上面或是滿足求名的方面在稅法上面去做多一點的彈性 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9696.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9719.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
折舊的這個折算通常也是一個企業他的財務裡面很像重要的一個結構表示他的財產能夠穩固如果說一時間全部的折算對企業的好處到底到底是全面的嗎還是這個應該好樣的一開始假設我投入了假設隨便講個金額10億好了我11再抖第一年第二年他就可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9720.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9748.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
去抵我的企業的支出就可以扣掉我的盈餘就變成說我在前幾年的時候如果說第一年抵得掉的話我的盈餘我的繳稅就會變少是這樣的概念本身要有相當的條件他的財力要很雄厚等等當然要財力很雄厚才會來改球場這個可以在國內中信還是一些大的球團都很多請財政部跟專家學校演繹一下我們期待的是一個長遠的安定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9749.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9775.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
大家都能夠認為合理的而且對產業是有利的力道政府可以來多一些支持的力道這個是可以的對那會後所以說我也可以理解成院長願意針對這個課題來探討那後續是不是就責成我們的財政部那可能協同體育部運動部來跟球團探討一下那這樣子的一個方向會不會對於這些未來運動產業的發展是有更正面的幫助可以朝這樣的方向嗎院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9777.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9792.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
讓財稅制度更合理化一直是政府跟民間共同的一個期待那我們經過很長的努力現在我們有一套穩固的方式但是當然其中能夠更進步更符合產業的需要也更符合政府對業界的支持這個方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9794.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9821.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
財政部都可以跟這些專家跟業界去做共同討論這件事情老實講不是財政部的責任但是我們財政部可以從某一個角度的方面來協助國內的體育發展再麻煩院長跟部長那我要進入下一個議題那部長你可以先請回那我們請這個金管會彭主委這幾天大家討論的比較多的就是零股交易那零股交易目前前兩三天金管會大概說的就是可能提前到9點 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9824.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9834.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
從9點10分到9點啊沒關係可不可以趁今天這個機會您說明一下我們現在的方向那以及目前不開放一些可能融資金融槓桿操作或者是全面領股的原因是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9835.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9864.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
是謝謝委員我想也謝謝委員有這個機會讓我再跟大家做說明因為主要台灣的這個資本市場我們從今天來看已經是大概第六第七我們是要觀看國際上面他大概一個國際級的資本市場該怎麼做我們就會朝這個方向來研究美國已經全面零股交易了對不對對就是說零股交易的話因為過去我們大概都是以千股為交易的方式零股的交易確實在後面陸陸續續我們把它到比如說他撮合的時間讓他更有效率避免那個價差 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9865.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9886.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
那這我們也評估過就是說再來就是我們很多的個股價值已經高過比如說可能是百元千元甚至萬元那這樣零股其實金額也蠻大的所以我們就盡量就是說我們維持一個就是說對所有投資人都公平我們就開始去優化這個過程我們也逐步在做那第一個就是把那個交易時間還有交易的撮合的這些的效率盡量跟我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9886.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9901.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
整股是一樣的 這部分是確定要執行的嘛我們這個是朝比較正向去做因為這部分的那個可行性比較高而且是 那也就是如果說券商如果因為成本的關係可能不太支持這會是我們考量的因素嗎還是說我們是會站在 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9902.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9931.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
交易這個民間這一邊交易者這一邊的角度來看這件事情特別是一個資本市場裡面除了投資人還有中介人這些比如券商還有這些比如我們交易所這些都要考量但我們剛才講說把那個零股交易的這個方式呢盡量把它跟整股整成一樣交易的模式整成一樣那跟比如說改成一股交易又是不一樣改成一股交易那個問題就比較大了所以我們要持續來研議方向是確定的方向確定沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9932.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9953.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
優化交易的模式是確定的那另外這個融資的方面或者是金融槓桿方面這我們也在研究所以之前七五個好像是不太支持所以我們現在的態度是因為主要是這樣就是說過去比如說我們就當沖或是以槓桿來講假設過去那個金額那麼小其實它的需要性也不大但是我剛才講過就是台灣的股市 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9954.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9966.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
現在已經到達這樣一個規模很多的個股已經這樣所以我也責成我們兩個交易所也針對這部分所以目前沒有完全否定這個方案這兩個我們沒有完全否定這本來就是我們邁向國際級的資本市場應該要隨時都要去檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9970.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9992.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
所以目前就是從交易制度上面先從零股比照我們傳統的股市方面時間以及交割方式這個撮合方式那第二步我們繼續來研究我們的這個金融槓桿融資或當沖方面目前還沒有完全的拒絕還在研究當中我們對所有制度都持開放的態度但是因為我們還是要考慮到我們剛剛講 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
10001.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
10006.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
謝謝廖委員 謝謝卓院長下一位我們請省發會委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
10045.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
10046.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
主席 我們請卓院長好 請卓院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
10057.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
10075.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
社會好院長早辛苦了這麼一個早上我想這邊有一個事情比較急在利用今天這個總執行的機會來這邊請院長來表示意見與態度這個我們的我們立法院的這個未還委員會在明天 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
10076.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
10097.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
我們在這個有排定一個審查國民黨委員的一個提案跟一個民眾黨黨團的一個提案有關於空污法空污防治法的這個一個修正草案在明天就要在委員會審查而且要在委員會通過來這個要出委員會那這次我看這幾項草案的修法重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
10098.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
10115.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
除了這個第一個就是說他把這個空戶的許可這個許可證的效期縮短這是第一個重點第二個重點他授權這個地方政府可以自行決定禁用特定的燃料或者是燃料的限制用量這地方政府就可以自行決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
10116.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
10136.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
第三個就是說有關這個行政機關怠惰未審定的這個期間之後他把過去這次你如果怠惰未審定是由政府負責你可以繼續這個許可他現在把這個說如果政府機關怠惰未審定你這風險要由廠商來轉嫁給廠商這是第三個修法重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10137 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10149.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
第四個他空白授權地方政府他可以進行變更許可他在他自己覺得特定的條件這空白的授權給地方政府他可以進行的這個變更這個許可那這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10155.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10171.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
這個有關這樣子的修法草案上個禮拜這個工總全國工業總會跟這個廠聯會工業區的這個廠商聯合總會都有分別發表聲明認為說他們表示反對修法而且認為期期以為不可認為說這個衝擊非常非常的巨大 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10172.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10200.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
因為明天的委員會審查由空污法的主管機關環境部部長出席這個事情這個草案修正他其實不只是環境部的問題他試射我們全國包括幾個重大產業包括半導體產業鏈鋼鐵石化紡織造紙水泥甚至還有包括它的下游產業整個都還有甚至全國的能源跟電力的配置 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10201.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10220.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
這些相關的問題全部都受到巨大的衝擊所以這個不單純是這個環境部的問題所以我今天利用這個機會我想請這個院長就這個空污法修正草案你是不是能夠表達我們行政院的政策立場好 最近幾天我們已經陸續收到 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10221.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10250.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
也看到公開的資訊很多的工協會對這個修法表示高度的憂慮因為修法的內容讓地方政府的權限是提高了但是它既可以自行來減排也可以自行來加碼減量從此它可以在不完成審查的兩個月當中就讓整個案子成為沒有辦法繼續運用這不只限定的是任何一個用燃料的電廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10251.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10271.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
會影響到很多很多的工廠很多很多的產業好那即使說只限定在電廠電廠因為這樣子沒有辦法去發電那些工廠也沒有辦法去任何的生產營業所以影響所懼啊讓業界現在非常的恐懼那我們也希望透過在野黨黨團跟執政黨黨團能夠在 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10275.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10303.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
即將到來的這種討論或是協商或是修法的過程當中務必要以國家整體性為念不要造成各地方政府的這個權限被無限的擴大之後沒有限制各地的標準反倒不一樣那這樣中央的執法會非常的困難產業會無法適應所以這個部分我認為在修法過程當中要特別特別的注意這個事情很急啦因為明天就要審查明天衛環委員會就要審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10304.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10328.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
那這個後果非常嚴重啦你再放任這個地方政府空白授權認為他裡面的條文修正條案說地方政府認為國民黨的文字是這樣地方政府認為有削減加減操作條件是必要他就可以變更許可這個民眾黨團的更絕了他說地方政府認為有健康風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10330.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10349.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
有健康風險之餘他就可以變更這完全沒有任何的標準的空白授權這樣子這整個這個對於這我剛講過對全國的這個產業鏈能源的配置對於這個電力的這個穩定供應這些都產生巨大的影響了放在地方政府各地方政府都可以自行決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10350.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10377.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
我們的經濟部環境部對相關的問題現在都有一套標準在嚴格的執行所以我在這裡也呼籲在野黨能夠以蒼生為念真的是懸崖勒馬不要一意孤行那我也在這裡請卓院長我們行政院應該要堅定立場 據理力爭守護台灣的產業跟能源的穩定我會加強溝通讓這個事情能夠合理的解決好 接下來這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10380.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10395.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
我在這個過去的三次總諮詢都特別關心這個我們的這個有關於亞洲資產管理中心中我那時候提出他的核心就是所謂的這個台灣個人投資儲蓄帳戶TISA有關TISA的問題我在9月20號 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10397.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10416.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
是在立法院我第一個提出有關TISA的質詢我們行政院團隊很快的在6月23號就宣布TISA上線這部分我這邊先給予肯定我們在去年6月宣布TISA上線到現在差不多快一年的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10417.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10439.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
這一年的時間這個這中間當然還有其他的我在這個去年的10月我特別提出了有關這個也是我也是第一個提出了就是說參考美國的這個川普帳戶讓這個這個我們台灣的目前的這個兒少發展帳戶能夠普惠化能夠擴大那我看到我們院長院長在這個我們經發會的這個這個顧問會議上面表達我們要朝這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10446.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10467.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
這個所謂未來帳戶的方向發展那我在這裡首先請問我們院長或者是請這個部長回答就是我們目前有關未來帳戶我們的規劃時程是什麼時候大概什麼時候可以上路是先跟委員報告一下有關我們現在TISA的部分這主要是謝謝委員過去有三度關心這個議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10468.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10483.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
那我們在去年七月上線算是非常的順利在沒有租稅優惠之下我們平均一個月大概一萬兩千件的增加數我們現在的管理的資產部長時間有限你是不是能夠提一下我剛所談的這個未來帳戶它的規劃跟上線 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10487.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10514.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
未來帳戶的部分我們是只對這個兒少的部分那我們現在TESA主要主軸是針對成年人的部分我們接下來這裡會看這個兒少帳戶怎麼設計我們來銜接他的部分要銜接TESA因為兩個性質不同那如果我們這個兒少帳戶能夠未來帳戶能夠順利的上路未來他跟TESATESA主要是在於個人儲蓄投資這個是成年以後的事情這個銜接的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10517.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10541.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
我們現在的未來帳戶因為他對象是低收中低收所以他的局限性比較大那我們期待我們是不是有一個更加的財政能力把它往後延伸把它往後延伸那延伸之後就會產生原來的這些現在已經有的這些未來帳戶的對象他是不是可以有選擇性加入TISA因為有一部分錢是他自己出的那未來這個部分我們就可以用法律來 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10541.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10569.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
做更好的規範是不是讓大家更有機會在TISA裡面也養成個人的一個金融理財的能力也讓他實質上增加他的實質的收入非常好那我就是希望說我們這個有關目前的這個兒少發展帳戶能夠能夠普惠化能夠變成這個提供更多的在我們財政允許的情況之下提供更多的未來能夠跟TISA整個銜接這樣就非常完整但是我現在剛剛 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10570.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10590.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
打斷部長的報告很重要的部長在報告TESA這一年來的成果這一年來成果確實是不錯我們推動一年好像現在目前不管在開戶的開戶數或者是整個資金規模TESA的申購金額跟他庫存的金額整個都有大幅成長 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10591.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10615.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
但是這是第一階段了未來我們在這一年裡面我們整個基本上都是仰賴個人的自發參與的國民個人自發參與它的擴大大概到現在這樣做到12萬戶未來要仰賴個人參與要再擴大還需要一些努力這些努力我個人認為剛剛也有提到我個人認為我從第一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10617.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10641.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
租稅優惠絕對是一個重要最重要的一個因素了沒有租稅優惠的TISA你要未來你要整個要推動擴大規模我認為是有困難的租稅優惠的部分我知道說我們金管會跟財政部現在都一直在針對未來租稅優惠的部分來努力這部分因為時間的關係我們會後希望能夠了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10647.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10663.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
但是我現在要談的一個問題就是說在現行沒有出稅優惠的情況之下其實我們要擴大它的規模還有兩條路可以走第一個就是我們目前勞工跟公務員的這個在退休薪資的這個自提的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10664.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10681.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
如果我們現在這些能夠把這個勞工公務員的退休的部分在字體的部分能夠把它導入TISA那我相信這個因為這個有關勞工退休的部分在勞工在勞退條例的第14條他本來就已經有規定免稅的 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10682.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10709.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
已經有本來稅付優惠他就法定在那裡所以他把這個字體的部分投入TISA他就是享有本來勞退條例14條所規定的這些這樣子的這個出稅優惠所以在現在的情況之下就可以做我認為這是第一件事情可以做了這個部分這個我現在剩下4分鐘這個等一下請部長一起回答那第二條路我認為也非常重要就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10710.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10729.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
我們要讓導入企業參與TESA的相關機制就是說這些企業如果企業他能夠我們設計機制讓企業他企業自己提撥一些部分然後讓他的員工也提供一些提供一部分來投入TESA |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10730.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10749.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
那這部分第一個它就是它是在退休金以外的為這個員工所做的這個退休的一個第三支柱就是我公司反正我一種變相的加薪我公司也提供一部分的資金然後我的這個金額相對應的你這個由員工來投入資金那這樣子來投入這個TESA的個人儲蓄賬戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10759.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10780.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
這樣子的做法其實現在有一些企業已經在做了有企業在做但是我們沒有提供任何的鼓勵或者是其他的機制來鼓勵我們的企業能夠來做這個為員工來做這個個人的投資儲蓄賬戶這部分我認為是未來要擴大的一個很重要的一點這一點是不是我們這個請部長就是剛我所講的兩點 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10784.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10802.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
我簡單回答三件一個就是確實我們勞退薪資裡面本來就有自提的部分只是他這邊沒辦法自選但是這個部分只限於勞工那他是確實是現有既存的制度那其實可以這個方向也可以助力我們第三制度的建制 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10803.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10824.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
對那我們接下來在跟財政部在規劃的這個內容是針對全民的我們不限於職業別所以這個範圍更廣剛剛委員講的非常的正確就是說這部分可以來支持變成另外一個支柱我們現在是希望不要有職業別的這樣的一個全面式的那個適用的一個提灑的制度那再來剛剛講企業參與的部分這當然可能要尊重財政部那邊他們在一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10825.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10842.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
那租稅考量在我們過去在設計這個因為院長已經有指示我跟財政部部長針對這個所謂租稅優惠進行研議也非常感謝財政部在過程中提供非常多專業的見解我想我們會盡快來做這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10842.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10871.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
好這個我剛所講這個企業參與的部分因為現在我們的其實有很多的產業他不像每一個產業都像高科技一樣可以在那配股可以給這個員工加薪這個沒有但是現行的這個勞工的這些相關的這些退休的金額其實你要維持未來生計事實上還是相當的艱困所以我們鼓勵企業用這個TESA的方式企業提撥部分資金相對的資金然後你個人也提 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10872.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10889.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
提供資金去投入個人的儲蓄跟投資這樣子的做法其實現在已經有工廠在做了已經有相關的民間企業在做我個人認為說這個是我們應該要鼓勵企業做而且我們應該要有相關的政策相關的機制來鼓勵企業做 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10890.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10909.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
那在這裡我想除了我講這些相關的機制我這邊就請院長能夠考慮院長能夠考慮這樣子的做法是不是我剛所講的這樣子由企業來投入參與TISA這樣子的做法我們是不是從我們的這個公營事業從我們的國營事業從我們的這個相關的公普行庫從我們的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10915.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10935.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
金融的這個F4這些證交所 櫃買中心這些F4這些公司我們開始來試辦來開始推動推動讓由我們國營事業來來投入這些員工鼓勵員工引導員工進入這個開設這個TESA帳戶這樣子的方向不曉得院長是不是能夠努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10936.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10956.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
在司法上如果沒有異議而且雙方也都同意用這種方式我覺得往這個方向去做是一個帶頭的作用好 那我就期待我們行政院能夠這個在相關的在最短的時間內做出相關的規劃這一年來TISA確實是成果不錯那我們希望能夠更加擴大好不好好 謝謝陳委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10964.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10992.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
好 謝謝沈委員 謝謝卓院長下一位請葛如君委員質詢報告委員會現在在議場二樓旁欣喜的是花蓮縣手工業職業工會的朋友我們在這邊歡迎你們好 謝謝主席有請卓院長金管會彭主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10993.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10996.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
好請卓院長還有金管會主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
11006.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
11033.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
各位好 院長好 主委好我想OECD發布的數位經濟展望報告已經說了數位經濟的成長率是總體經濟的2.5到3倍因為數位經濟有零邊際成本的特性軟體 AI 數據等等實體資源配合在一起會是新型態的金融 數位金融所以當我們在討論到亞洲資產管理中心我們不應該只管理實體的我們數位的 虛擬的也都要 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
11034.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
11060.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
很高興看到院長在一開始就說了虛擬資產服務法草案是優先法案也已經送到立法院來我們也感謝我們的主委我們一起來討論我們這麼努力不外乎是希望能夠建立友善穩定安全同步發展的金融環境也要接軌國際跟時代本席在虛擬資產服務法裡面也有提出一個版本兩個部分想要特別拜託院長第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
11061.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
11080.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
專法通過這個VASP的業務會持續的成長穩定幣去年的總交易量就達到46兆美元年增長率是106%昨天的新聞亞洲佔比三分之二目前虛擬資產的相關業務是由金網會底下的政企局在主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
11080.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
11108.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
那這個我想現在做得很棒但是未來再放大的時候希望能夠量能能夠搭配得上所以本席的草案版本裡面有明訂要設立專責單位以及專責人員而且人數要以業務增減來調整以避免未來金管會的人力受到影響沒有辦法好好來發展這部分能不能現在請院長承諾未來我們多超前部署一下給金管會多一點的資源 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
11109.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
11120.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
看是未來政局局是要擴大還是說要未來成立新的這個局處這個院長可不可以先給我們的主委一個強心針說我們同意早一點部署 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11120.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11141.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
因應這個金融創新的各項業務我想也不只是只有虛擬資產那如果因應這個新的時代來臨需要去做更多的評估計算出未來業務量人員量如果有一個這樣的分析那當然政府會在跟民間一起合作進步的這個角度上來支持我們最組織上的檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11142.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11157.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
很好 謝謝院長我想這個金管會主委再麻煩您持續推進之前院長有同意確實有增加了14名人力那我們也希望未來在單位在人力上也持續的擴張同時院長也提到了要跟民間一起來努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11157.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11187.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
那院長我們新的這個草案裡面工會有提到說這個VASP工會虛擬資產的工會拿出一部分的經費來投入一個基金政府這裡可不可以也出一部分因為目前教育非常的重要市場的教育去阻詐來防詐讓產業民眾都可以有機會一起進步讓台灣的VASP業者真的去打世界賽但目前在專法裡面只有工會的投入那政府長期在VASP發展上缺席的話我想也不太好 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11187.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11209.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
是不是能夠評估一下前幾年以政府配對的方式公會有出錢政府可不可以就搭配譬如說業者出1億政府就出1億當國人越了解虛擬資產詐騙也就會越低那我想這一點能不能請院長同意這樣的一個方向有限時間限量的match研議一下可不可以一個月內跟本席一個報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11210.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11239.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
就請主委先來分析是跟委員說明就是剛剛提到就是我們該第一個提到人力的部分過去人總對我們非常的支持他也提供我們初期的非常充分的人力但是下一階段確實隨著業務量增加我們會按照剛剛院長的指示這個這來跟上人事的這個配置剛剛提到就是說我們有參看國外的很多的制度裡面也沒有類似像這種金融安全網的設計這個主要是會有這個構想就好像我們的銀行有存保 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11239.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11262.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
保險安定基金這樣的概念其實我們也看到了就是說國外大家比較像是業者自發式的做一些比如說當然因為我們稍微VASP有點這個比較晚 late follower所以政府可不可以再多補一些進去這我們會參考國際上的做法因為畢竟VASP剛開始那其實上距離這個過程我想我們還要經過大家的討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11263.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11278.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
能不能一個月內提供一份研議報告可以沒問題我想可以把國際上一些做法還有可行性替代方案還比如說過去我們類似的經驗我們都提供給委員參考台灣是數位之島 科技之島我相信我們可以做得比別人更好所以我想我們說不定可以領先 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11279.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11297.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
那另外這個我們也看一下這個投影片之前我們也展示出來其實希望能夠有這個政府銀行跟VASP業者三方合作的機制那現在也做得蠻不錯的我們也就給院長跟主委都一個掌聲那這個其實也是日本的做法分業監管各取所長 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11298.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11316.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
大家都有湯喝但是現在外國政府正在提供誘因要把整碗湯來端走院長您看一下這張圖這是世界各國為了推動虛擬資產的產業在租稅上給予產業的幫助我們看到泰國葡萄牙德國薩爾瓦多阿聯酋都有 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11317.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11336.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
那我想這個有一些是個人的租稅優惠有一些是間接的有些直接的有的是兩者並行的公司稅可以減少請問院長那現在雖然部長好像在猶豫他要不要上來但沒有關係我先直接講院長世界各國都對虛擬資產這個新生兒給予租稅優惠我們能不能 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11336.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11357.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
也規劃相應的政策我們說不定台灣可以變全球數位資產中心啊這不會比亞洲資產中心更差嘛例如我們豁免增值稅到2035年或者對合法合規的VASP業者五年內免公司稅我相信各國都在想要把湯都端過去我們能不能搶更多過來 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11358.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11376.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
我們這個Vespa業者真的非常優秀啦有點像紅葉哨棒隊都拿著木棒在打棒球現在政府很負責任的要進來了我們可不可以買最好的球套買最好的球棒甚至吸引更多的人才進來財政部能不能在一個月內提供一份研擬報告我們Vespa產業的租稅優惠 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11378.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11398.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
在那個虛擬資產服務法裡面有VASP這個部分那它的型態那些我們大家都已經跟金管會深入的了解那它的目前的租稅的制度呢還是當然現有的租稅優惠都可以用那我們剛剛提到的可以嗎但是如果要另外增加的話可能要提出一些具體的一些需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11398.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11417.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
或者是說要做稅市支出評估都必須要進一步的研議那部長可不可以跟產業來討論一下一個月內提供一份研擬報告給國人參考我想這個部分我們可以配合金管會的一些推動來做一些相關的研議那主委OK嗎我們會跟財政部研議相關的這個不好意思 院長你指示吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11418.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11442.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
因為我們過去在對於產業創新的產狀條例當中對很多新創的產業都有注稅優惠甚至投資抵減這個理念是一樣的那如果是這樣的話Vespa的產業我們是不是請財政部主導來研議可以嗎 院長我想這個部分我們可以跟金管會一起協同因為虛擬資產整個主管的法規是在院長我們需要一個leader您可不可以直接在這裡說請財政部來主導注稅的優惠 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11445.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11466.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
他們兩位的配合一直很有效率好 那就院長來負責囉好不好一直很有效率好不好好 那一個月內研擬可以嗎把這個方向勾畫出來沒有問題一個月我想全國民眾都在看產業也在看川普可能也在看啦院長可不可以答應一個月內研擬一下好嗎對 我們一個月內把這個大方向這個修法的部分也要 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11467.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11487.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
那當然當然提供研擬啦我們也很尊重行政單位好不好那另外關於購買比特幣的ETF本席在兩年前呢質詢的時候要求金管會不應該禁止國人用付委託來購買境外的比特幣ETF這是金融自由一部分我們很高興金管會從善如流啦主委勇於認識在9月當年9月份就開放 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11488.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11513.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
這幾年國際趨勢猛進的跟上美國加拿大香港等主要金融市場都已經陸續批准比特幣現貨ETF它變成一種標準化受監管的投資工具反觀我國的規範到現在2026年還是只能付委託而且對投資人有嚴格的限制這樣的一個情況可能會造成一般投資人的風險增加本土資金的外流 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11513.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11532.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
本地金融又錯失發展的機會院長我要在這裡跟您報告全球最大資產管理公司貝萊德旗下的比特幣ETF上市首年很少過去10年所有新發行的ETF紀錄341天超越黃金ETF的紀錄甚至成長比黃金快上5倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11533.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11554.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
尤其是我們國人這麼愛買ETF啊這個金管會如果限制太多可能民眾風險反而增加請問院長本席上週有看到金管會說近期會評估再進一步開放一般人來做這個付委託的購買那有沒有具體時程以及未來開放我國境內發行比特幣ETF有沒有評估跟時程 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11554.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11569.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
博主委請是 謝謝委員 委員兩個問題第一個我們對境外赴委託交易的部分確實前年的年底我們開放了專業投資人可以透過這樣我們也看到我們上次有答應這個大院是每半年我們檢討一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11570.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11595.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
第一次的檢討那個半年過後我們發現說這個現在還沒有成熟所以我們是保留那接下來半年後那個報告他們最近也送過來我們也看到就是說過去這個開放這一年多大概成交量是比較低就12億左右只佔整個副委託可能是0.06%還在非常開始的階段我們剛剛收到他們的分析報告我們現在正在看因為半年我們就會再重新評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11595.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11619.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
所以我們很快的就會把這個評估開放時間不好意思主委給我們一個具體的時間就是說他今天送過來我們答應半年評估一次嘛這次已經另外一個半年到我們就會評估評估如果覺得可以開放更大的範圍的話我想我們最近大概就會對外說明我們的評估結果好 最近啦不過我們還有提到境內發行的比特幣現貨ETF啦我想這個部分今晚會可不可以在一個月內給本席一個報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11620.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11635.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
因為境內的部分這個我們會按照我們vespa專法的進度的好那三個月好不好三個月可以嗎那個報告沒問題啊可以提供三個月謝謝那這個部長陳先生部長可以請回我這邊接下來要討論股票代幣化的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11636.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11659.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
納茲達克在上個月或SEC的允許特定股票得以代幣化的形式來交易結算紐交所也在這個月18號向SEC送件未來365天24小時蘋果的股票NVIDIA股票甚至TSMC的ADR都有可能在區塊鏈上面交易而且是不停歇的這其實就是RWA的一種形式 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11659.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11678.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
金管會的RWA代幣化的小組其實在去年已經完成驗證技術的可行性想請問一下主委後續規劃怎麼樣股票代幣化什麼時候開放因為這個跟院長報告這個東西一開放會造成磁吸的效應資金可能會挪移我們很可能會喪失所謂的定價權這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11680.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11695.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
這個時間不多所以主委能不能跟我們提一下什麼時候開放有沒有預計的時間謝謝委員我想主要是這樣我們現在有兩個軌道一個是虛擬資產交易VASP專法這一塊RW的部分因為台灣的法治架構是因為我們有政交法 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11695.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11719.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
我們假設是我們今天假設他今天的交易是同一個標的同一個管理的話假設我們的RWA是一個有價證券的部分的話我們會適用證交法的規定來處理嘛那另外RWA那個範圍有非常的多好像剛才講有些是非有價證券那是另外一個所以我們現在正在研究我們現在已經開始在做一些在未來交易平台的建構還就是我們第一波會上 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11720.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11744.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
上這個RWA的這個商品是什麼我們已經開始找吉寶還有我們的F4還有相關單位已經開過很多次會我們最近會定調這個部分因為在時間的時序還有基礎的建設還要做我想可能也沒有那麼快可能短期可能沒辦法上線主委會後能不能有人一起到我們辦公室來一起來討論一起來加進這方面的努力好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11745.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11762.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
最後剩一點時間麻煩有請楊總裁楊總裁到來之前我想交付一份比特幣Bitcoin Reserve for Taiwan的美國參議員的幕僚機構所幫台灣做的一份報告我想交給院長可不可以院長到前面我們交付給你 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11777.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11798.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
好謝謝院長為什麼我們一直在提這個戰略儲備因為這是我們金融韌性的一部分這份報告認為台灣適合一定程度一定量的比特幣作為儲備的資產因為這是金融韌性的一部分我們也可以看到現在連美國印太司令都已經公開表達比特幣是國家級安全資產的潛力 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11799.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11825.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
那未來如果再發生像伊朗宣布荷木茲海峽的通行費現用比特幣穩定幣或人民幣付款的時候我們才有能力因應嘛然而我們目前的國家儲備沒有比特幣也沒有穩定幣只有人民幣如果未來發生相關的情況難道院長想要付人民幣來通行海峽嗎我想上次詢答的時候我們感謝我們楊總裁啦說時空環境會改變改變的時候就會調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11825.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11849.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
但是我們該變的時候就要趕快大力的變現在院長在這裡請教一下院長這個央行有比特幣戰略儲備的報告那我們現在看到穩定幣也可能是這種方法風險可能更低我們的RWA的小組都研議的很多能不能請院長下指令研議一下如果政府將先從非常小的一部分外匯成底非常小 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11850.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11871.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
換成穩定幣或者代幣化的債券因為在極端狀況發生的時候這些黃金這些美元這些美債不一定外債外幣不一定好更換或者是去交易所以這一點RWA這種區塊鏈上的數位代幣就會是非常重大的我們的金融韌性的一部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11871.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11882.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
能不能請央行這裡或者是責成我們相關的部會院長能不能答應研議一下能不能在一個月內提出一份穩定幣或數位貨幣的國家儲備的報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11884.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11911.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
現在的資料顯示上沒有國家其他國家把這個比特幣列為外匯的存底不好意思您可能沒有看央行的報告現在已經有捷克開始這樣做還有越來越多的國家都在研議台灣的做法比較穩定的是說我們希望是不是能朝向發行一種穩定幣的方式來先進入到這樣的一個虛擬貨幣的世界裡面去我想未來的金融我們一起努力跟2300萬通貨一起努力好嗎 謝謝好 謝謝委員謝謝各位 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11915.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11939.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
謝謝卓院長下一位王正旭委員資質詢已書面提出請行政院書面答覆並列入紀錄刊登公報報告院會財政組資質詢已詢答完畢上午會議進行到此為止下午2點30分繼續開會進行教育及文化組資質詢現在休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
19379.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
19380.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
MING PAO CANADA // MING PAO TORONTO |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
21621.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
21636.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
包園會現在繼續開會進行教育及文化組織質詢張委員紅路之質詢已書面提出請行政院已書面答覆並列入紀錄刊登公報現在請翁曉琳委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
21660.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
21668.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
主席好 在這邊我先有請教育部的鄭部長還有文化部的李遠部長我們請教育部長跟文化部長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
21690.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
21713.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
兩位部長好我想我還是要再次重申本席質詢的原則在卓榮泰院長沒有依法一線完成他的憲政義務之前本席是認為違憲違法的院長是不配上台備詢的今天看到李院長您的手受傷了嗎不好意思 李部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
21714.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
21729.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
快好了 謝謝你的關心首先我就想要先請教李部長一個問題就是其實4月12號政協會之後大陸方面也公布了10項措施其中有一下就是要促進兩岸的影視交流 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
21730.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
21749.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
這個政策基本上它就是未來會鼓勵台灣的電視劇然後紀錄片 電影 動畫片等等可以在大陸的衛星電視頻道上面還有網路平台上面播送我想這樣子一個政策直接對於台灣的影視業者還有基層的從業人員來說 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
21751.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
21765.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
都是一個很好的一個消息那麼畢竟大陸的市場很大而且再說就是如果說能夠讓台灣的文化走進大陸讓大陸的民眾了解台灣文化之美其實這個是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
21767.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
21783.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
蠻不錯的一個方向那麼但是呢另外就是說我要再講就是其實近年來其實台灣也是有一些電影其實看起來好像在台灣的票房並不怎麼理想但是到大陸之後它的票房成績是非常亮眼 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
21783.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
21807.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
譬如說像是2018年的比悲傷更悲傷的故事在台灣當時就差不多是2.4億的台幣的票房還算是不錯可是呢到了大陸的那時候的票房呢就創下了42億台幣的驚人紀錄等於是比台灣的票房多出20倍那2024年就是前這個前年的的 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
21807.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
21825.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
周楚除山害的這部電影在台灣的票房不到5000萬台幣可是沒想到到大陸之後呢他的票房則創下了27億的新台幣這非常驚人的數字大概是54倍比台灣多54倍的這樣票房收入那麼遠見雜誌他在2026年的2月也做了一個專題報導是講說哪些台灣電影在大陸 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
21834.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
21857.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
创下高票房的记录也列举了10部卖作很好的电影大陆的官方现在也统计说2024年共有9部台湾电影在大陆上映票房合计大概是33亿的新台币2025年有8部在大陆上映的台湾电影票房合计大概是4亿 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
21858.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
21887.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
的這個新台幣所以呢由此可見其實台灣的電影在大陸是有票房的當然不是每一部都這麼的亮眼可是基本上還是對於台灣的電影產業來說他可以有一個額外的一個收入的管道所以本期想在這邊請教部長就說您自己身為這個電影人您是否支持台灣的電影還有電視劇等等牽引式作品到大陸去放映 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
21889.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
21917.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
謝謝委員問這個問題其實以現在台灣的電影工作者他拍電影的時候他目標已經放棄中國大陸的市場為什麼因為中國大陸市場他變化很大他有經過審查您剛才講那幾部他每一年從我們這邊進到中國大陸經過審查後他那個數字都不到10部我們台灣從中國大陸進來的中國電影抽籤就有10部 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
21918.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
21947.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
所以經過這段時間的考驗以後台灣的電影工作者拍電影不會考慮中國大陸市場的原因是它的變數很大你不曉得哪一部可以過哪一部不能過所以站在這個立場文化部會鼓勵所有的電影工作者努力的拍出一個電影可以走上國際然後在台灣票房在台灣票房好一點剛剛你講那個都是一個票房比較好的電影最近那幾部都是陽光女子合唱團 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
21948.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
21948.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
或者是 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
21950.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
21978.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
都是在台灣票房好到去中國票房很差換句話說我們兩個地方的文化因為這個基本上都有些客觀的統計數字也謝謝這個李部長剛剛的回應我想就是說您剛剛說就是我們的電影或是戲劇到大陸那邊他們這個審查那他們的電影來還有戲劇來台灣上映基本上也是被審查你可不可以讓我講一下因為我自己從事電影我很清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
21979.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
21996.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
台灣准許中國電影來用抽籤內容不審查抽10部如果他在金馬獎得到最佳影片最佳導演也可以來在國際上得到大獎也可以來台灣從頭到尾都是敞開心胸接受中國電影的但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
21997.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
22013.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
中國對外講台灣電影進來沒有限制幾部每一部都審查的結果就是我剛跟你講說包括電視我想部長針對這個議題因為本席的重點在於說現在大陸他們那邊已經有了一個開放的政策看起來未來 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
22014.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
22039.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
他们在审查方面或是他们是不是可以接受更多的数量的部分呢我们不知道但是至少对台湾的电影业者影视产业还有从业人员来讲我认为说这是一个机会那么当然像您刚刚讲的阳光女子合唱团的这件事情他们到大陆那里的去上映那因为当地的发行单位宣传的时候官方微博可能就出现了中国台湾地区的这样子一个表述 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
22040.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
22066.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
結果就被網路側翼狂攻擊那麼針對這樣的一個問題請問部長您是不是應該要給這個陽光女子合唱團他們這個公司給一些鼓勵因為畢竟如果說只是因為大陸的官方宣傳有這樣子一個問題那麼而給導演扣上紅帽子而且還說他們是創作者為了賺人民幣而屈膝投降 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
22066.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
22091.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
那甚至還說要趕快逼他們把輔導金退還我覺得像這樣子一個方式不是很好吧我認為說藝術歸藝術政治歸政治那即便在這個部分可能未來在執行上面應該要更細緻但是對於網路上面這樣的攻擊不知道就是部長是不是您身為電影人應該有出面要呼籲這些惡意的攻擊我謝謝你問我這個問題從這件事情開始到現在我都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
22096.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
22114.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
強調是中國那邊操作把它說變成中國台灣而且在網路上的操作非常明顯是來自中國所以我只會譴責中國我不會譴責我們台灣的電影工作者因為文化部的角色怎麼可能會一直譴責我們自己的人呢而且我要跟你講一件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
22115.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
22141.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
我們一直在傳播一個錯誤的觀念就是其實中國大陸的電視劇去年來到我們這邊6173小時我們台灣從頭到尾就沒有斷絕中國的文化來到台灣他不讓我們過去啊他不讓我們過去要問的一個問題就是說您剛剛也講得很好就是說我們其實現在台灣不管是OTD平台特別是Netflix MOD等等這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
22142.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
22159.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
所謂的網路的影視平台上面都可以看到非常非常多的大陸的電視劇但是我們到現在為止我們還有一個電影配合的十部片的管制您認為還有這樣的一個管制必要嗎我剛才一直強調我們的十部片遠遠超過中國大陸進口台灣的電影 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
22166.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
22189.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
十部電影用抽籤的所以很有必要要去做這樣的管制嗎我的意思是講說你現在是控制這個大陸的電影台灣十部片可是實際上其實都可以看得到對台灣人要看到中國的劇組打開OTD就可以看到我們從頭到尾都沒有阻止他的文化過來但是我們訂了十部 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
22190.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
22209.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
抽籤不管什麼題材我們都接受他只要是好電影中國大陸的電影從張藝謀到陳凱歌之後就沒什麼電影了我想這應該是兩回事了就是說台灣現在在OTT上面因為他沒有任何專法可管所以呢我們可以看到非常多的大陸戲劇電影節目 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
22211.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
22238.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
那麼但是到目前為止其實文化部底下還有一個有關於這種大陸影視作品來台灣一個配額管制那本席是要建議就是文化部這邊是不是也應該要去適時的做個檢討因為現在你這個電影每年十部進來就像你講大家他們要抽籤如果我們的心胸那麼開闊我們也不怕就是說大陸的這個電影來台灣上映會有什麼問題我們還可以有事後的審查既然如此的話那為什麼應該先請中國不要審查嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
22240.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
22264.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
我們電影過去他要審查最近那個會台實相還要照他的意識拍兩岸什麼什麼還要照他的意識拍才可以過去我們兩邊之間應該互相公平啊這個部分的話是文化部自己要去思考如果說你認為說我們的文化是夠有抵運我們也民眾有夠有文化的抵抗力的話基本上何必擔心何必在乎大陸的 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
22265.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
22269.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
這個電視影視劇電影來台灣我一直在跟委員報告我一直在跟委員報告我們台灣從來沒有阻止中國電影 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
22278.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
22303.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
我們金馬獎進去獎得主很多是中國導演是不是應該要採取更善意更開放的態度可以去檢討這是本席給文化部的建議當然你們還是可以繼續的限制好另外還有一個很熱門的問題很快問完待會要請另外的問題還要請教鄭部長就是這個大陸當紅鼓裝劇族裔的男主角張靈鶴準備要來台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
22306.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
22326.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
见粉丝那部长您说如果张宁赫来台湾的话一定会爱上自由的台湾也会感受到台湾政府不会限制言论自由不会限制创作自由所以一定会爱上台湾不过部长的这番谈话让我不禁回想起这个两年前当时胡歌大陆知名演员胡歌来台他 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
22328.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
22343.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
24小時非常快速的快閃行程還有奧運桌球金牌球員馬龍當時隨著陸生團來訪那時候其實民進黨政府就設下了重重的限制然後不是警告說你沒事就不可以離開飯店要不然的話就是全程緊盯 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
22344.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
22357.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
所以這其實是當時不管是馬龍或者是胡歌都還說如果我們在台灣的朋友要聚那很抱歉這次你們沒辦法聚我們就回北京或上海再聚所以這樣子的印象其實會讓他人會覺得說為什麼來到台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
22361.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
22384.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
連這個臨時想要出去買個宵夜或是去哪裡買買東西然後都不行好像台灣是變成像一個戒嚴地區沒有言論自由沒有行動自由所以本席是想說請教部長就說如果這次張凌鶴真的可以來台灣訪問的話您會真心的真心誠意的給張凌鶴吃喝玩樂隨處閒逛的行動自由嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
22385.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
22414.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
好 你講到這個我很想回答你我實在是不曉得族裔的詹靈鶴來台灣是什麼話題挑起台灣有很多戲 機生他的收視率就比族裔高為什麼你不講機生我們的這個男主角就是你一直要講族裔部長 因為現在族裔是一個很當紅的在台灣也是爆紅的這個服裝劇因為他現在所以你根本沒有看到你根本不知道你現在知道族裔在哪裡播放嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
22415.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
22442.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
我知道啊 我不會想看啊是 但是因為你不想看因為你拒絕去這個接受大陸的戲你基本上你已經用一個有政治的一個眼光去看待這些藝術的影劇所以本席也感到很遺憾因為你今天還當文化部部長不過看起來就是你剛剛講說張宁賀會愛上台灣但是事實上你不打算給他一個充分的一個行動資源我說他愛上台灣是因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
22442.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
22458.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
他一定會呼吸到台灣自由的空氣台灣政府不會限制言論不會打壓他也不會考慮他罷章但是會限制他的行動自由我剛剛已經說了您是不是可以同意給他一個充分吃喝玩樂隨處閒逛的自由他沒有來我怎麼知道可以吃喝玩樂呢如果他申請的話您會給他嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
22461.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
22470.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
你為什麼那麼希望他來呢我覺得好奇怪因為台灣有很多的粉絲我是代表台灣很多的粉絲來問這個問題這很奇怪嗎我覺得從頭到尾戰略是一個假議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
22477.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
22505.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
還要再請教這個正部長的問題我可以下去嗎不行因為不好意思因為這是不同的議題那麼接下來也要請教正部長的很快就是說事實上我們知道現在問題學生很多那在前幾天還有一個消息就是說現在國小老師然後發現才剛開學怎麼學生班上就有七個學生是帶電子煙那麼這個對於就是老師的管教其實也是產生了很多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
22506.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
22533.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
這個壓力到底是該收書包還是不該收書包可不可以就去沒收或是代管這個電子煙那麼從這個戈井案之後大家知道這個學校方面其實對於一些有這個問題行為有偏差有問題這些學生基本上一直都很難處理所以我想請問部長那您也曾經身為小學教師您認為說像發生這種狀況的時候老師要怎麼處理可不可以去收書包可不可以說是代管這些電子煙 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
22535.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
22551.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
我想我們這個電子菸現在目前它是在學校是禁止的那當然禁止的時候老師當然就可以看到學生持有的時候他當然就可以來限制他這一個持有這個電子菸那當然我們也會行這個校安的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
22553.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
22569.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
校安的一個系統學校裡面他們有一定的一個標準程序會來做處理所以就是說在班上老師還是不能夠直接去說小朋友你的書包打開給我看然後把這些電子菸代管還要再通過校安系統我想老師知道全帶有電子菸已經有明顯的證據 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
22572.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
22594.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
那這樣一個情況下他當然老師記憶在這個管教這個學生有一個好的行為那接下來其實本期希望教育部可以給我一份報告因為現在對於問題學生的輔導記錄到底是不是可以從小學、中學、國中、中學然後一直到大學他都一個完整的一個無縫轉移的一個這樣的一個過程那這部分因為我 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
22609.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
22629.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
我會想學校可以大家對學生及大學各自的一個保護不外學生的許多的行為上是需要真正的培訓與保護這是大學的一個基礎我想最後我把這個整個程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
22632.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
22656.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
好 謝謝那個不急答覆的部分請部長以書面答覆那謝謝翁委員下一位我們請林思明委員質詢報告委員會現在在議場二樓旁聽起的是台北市立景興國小的同學我們在這邊歡迎你們到立法院來 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
22661.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
22672.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
好 謝謝主席主席我請卓院長請卓院長備詢還有教育部請部長也一起教育部部長請備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
22679.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
22694.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
林國元好 是 院長好 院長關於新竹縣在前年2024年提出了新竹縣高中五大方案的需求我想我在上個會期以後跟部長還有您來詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
22697.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
22711.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
我們包含新設立縣立實驗高中、六家高中以及湖口高中的正班闊校還有文興國中與志強國中改制為完全中協總共經費薛徐35億 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
22713.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
22736.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
在前年2024年1月8日時任行政院副院長鄭文燦他訪視新竹科學園區實驗高中當時直接承諾行政院會負責幫忙承諾中央負責挹注有關新竹縣建校正班的經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
22737.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
22746 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
所以新竹縣政府就向行政院提報了申請補助35億元的新設學校及正班的經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
22747.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
22772.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
那同時我們在立法院教育委員會在同年的7月26號到新竹地區來考察當時的教育部次長張亮萬堅以及副組長戴淑芬也直接承諾負責會幫忙預祝有關新竹縣建校增班的相關的經費當然這也包含了苗栗以及新竹市 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
22774.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
22798.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
但是我們西竹縣就提報了建校增班的經費35億我想請問院長跟部長時間也過了快兩年了縣府已經將這五大方案提報到行政院請教一部來呈報給行政院是否已經有所補助目前補助的金額是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
22799.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
22827.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
好 謝謝林委員其中這個實驗中學一所還有兩所是高中的正班還有兩所國中的升格為完全中學那這個進度各有不同目前這個實驗中學進度今年這個A115年度已經可以已經設立要準備招生了是不是所以他另外兩個國中要轉成這個完全中學的也在今年跟明年度會陸續的改制完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
22829.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
22856.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
那所需的經費目前教育部是納入整個新竹整個的公立高中跟學校校舍計畫當中包括竹苗地區的整體的規劃我想這個議題我想不只本席關心另外新竹縣的另外委員新委員他也非常關心那麼在這個2024年的11月29號我看他的臉書 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
22858.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
22885.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
他也表示說他已經拜會行政院秘書長龔明新當時龔明新是擔任行政院的秘書長表示感謝卓院長您他是感謝您對這個案子的全力協助以專簽經費補助所需的經費所以我很好奇專簽補助的經費在哪裡因為我剛才還打電話問新竹縣政府教育局他說一分錢都沒有到位 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
22886.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
22903.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
學校都已經今年幾所已經在今年的8月就要完工還有幾所明年就要也是一樣就要完工了但是經費都沒有到位所以這些經費到底行政院未來要做如何的一個補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
22904.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
22919.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
剛剛我也報告過這個整體的經費納入竹竹苗地區公立高中的整個校舍等等的計畫當中所以已經不是專簽補助了教育部裡面有因為你當時是承諾是要專簽補助這是一個專案的計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
22925.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
22942.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
剛才你所提到的這個現在已經把它納入為這個就是大新竹地區竹竹苗的一個新興計畫的補助的一個經費裡面嘛院長您的意思是這樣嗎再請部長來說說目前進度前確實我們在今年因為隨著本來當時確實有這樣的一個計畫行政院這一個有三年的一個計畫對新興人口學校裡邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
22952.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
22972.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
的一個發展的一個這個興建或者校舍的一個建建有44億的這樣一個計畫但是後來因為去年這個財化法以後所以就變成他確實在地方的一個經費就多了那儘管地方的一個經費我們期待說國民教育在地方政府裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
22973.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
22994.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
地方自治的權責他能夠來承擔但是教育部也把它當作一個新興的一個計畫我們在今年也感謝我們大院同意這一個新興計畫已經可以動之我們在3.3億裡面第一期大概對這一個所謂的我們數位實驗高中或者一些偵辦的部門 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
22996.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
23015.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
我們除了有規劃會或者一些補助我想在這個部分我們就可以已經開始院長也在這個4月21號也這個通函我們中央部會新興計畫也可以開始啟動做這樣的一個補充說明您的這個說法我想我也非常了解跟理解 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
23016.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
23031.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
那剛才提到當初我想你我過去也多次詢問過你啦你們不管是國教署長都私底下告訴我說這個一定會專案補助那可能要經過行政院來同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
23031.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
23057.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
但是就是說因為財化法的問題所以你們對於這個到底要補助的成數是多少遲遲不願意給我一個非常明確的一個答案那剛才你也很明確的說明就是因為地方多了財化法的一個金額的挹注所以未來的金額的補助可能就會不多就盡量把這個事項交給地方去做自治但是院長我想你自己也了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
23057.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
23086.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
目前行政院的態度對於財化法是不執行的所以我今天為什麼要提出這個問題因為現在財化法就沒有執行地方沒有這個財源我們現在有財化法在執行財化法有執行嗎今年的預算就是依照財化法編的只是後來再修正的那個更嚴重的破壞到地方權利我這樣講 縣長其實我很想跟你告訴你這3.3億真的是杯水車薪 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
23087.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
23099.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
地方提報的是35億這3.3億包含了大新竹地區竹竹苗的整個這個三個縣市要共用的新竹縣市分配到多少 您知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
23100.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
23127.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
不過依照剛剛部長說剛剛委員答覆的財化法現在我們執行的財化法地方已經統籌分配稅款4615億是多了4615億竟然多了那麼多為什麼這一次在新興計畫的補助裡面只有3.3億啊多是多在地方的統籌分配稅款所以地方應該有更多的財力那他提報出來為什麼到現在都沒有下文呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
23128.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
23143.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
都沒有下文啊今年的預算今年的預算你也知道現在還在審當中新興的預算可以用其他的預算還在審當中所以院長你的意思是說如果今年的總預算總預算通過之後絕對不止這3.3億囉不過跟委員報告如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
23144.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
23164.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
大院能夠在審慎的來審議院版的裁划法那未來中央地方各種補助讓中央更有彈性更有能力更有調節力絕對會比現在的裁划法還要合理院長我要告訴你一件事我覺得你要跟蘇前院長來比你真的對於教育的關心你沒有那麼大器 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
23165.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
23192.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
這不是大器我告訴你一件事啊有錢當然能夠大器啊錢都地方拿走了 地方應該大器才對那我想過去依照這個舊的財化法蘇院長的時代一樣嘛我們財化法也沒有修正啊是啊 那是以前的財化法現在已經被修正了 委員這個不能本末倒置啊財化法已經被大院修正了一年地方多拿走4165億的統籌分配稅款這是事實 也是目前執行的財化法 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
23194.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
23220.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
蘇前院長在2022年的時候我想他親自到我們當時我們也是竹北地區整個全台四個新興的區域因為人家是少子化我們是逆成長孩子一直增加所以有新建學校的必要全台有四個縣市包含新竹縣的竹北市當時我們提報了24億上來建立四所國中國小 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
23223.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
23234.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
蘇院長到其中一個嘉峰國小去視察正在興建當中我跟當時的林維州委員我們邀請院長一起下去看 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
23235.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
23255.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
蘇院長跟當時的潘文忠部長他看了之後他馬上才是這個絕對是家長跟孩子的一個需求教育不能等待啊 教育不能打折扣啊所以馬上他就拍板定案 補助七成啊24億補助七成 大概16.8億 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
23257.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
23280.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
如果今年中央政府還能夠維持當年蘇院長那個時候的一般性補助跟計畫性補助我們當然可以朝這個方向來講但是你所知道的事實就是一般性補助已經大幅的減少因為4615億已經到了地方了我已經告訴你了我現在要的是最後的結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
23280.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
23306.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
我想這個過程我們不要再去論它了我現在就是問你如果以後這個財產法現在已經你們就是過了你們也不執行所以就回到原來的預算並非如此現在是有財發法的所以你還是有錢可以用那為什麼只補助到3.3億35億只補助3.3億這個比例你看連一成都不到人家過去蘇院長是到七成 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
23308.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
23326.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
我想主任長您要歷史留名如果您對教育是這麼關心的話新竹縣的縣民家長這些孩子會感謝您的你讓他們能夠就近入學這個報告委員你這樣的一個帽子我可戴不起 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
23326.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
23341.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
如果我們現在還有當年蘇權院長時候的統籌分配稅款的話那當然可以考慮啊事實不然啊我這個講法完全是為您好啊不是事實不然中央被地方拿走4165億的統籌分配稅款這個部分委員都不提我剛才這意思強調了如果說這個這一次的總預算附委通過之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
23348.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
23371.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
你還是補助這3.3億嗎我們要衡量財政能力衡量中央現在的財政能力我們有財務能力可以的話我們當然全力補助地方無論重大建設甚至包括委員所做的教育但事實已經不是這樣子了嘛這個就表示您對教育這一塊真的非常的小心怎麼會差距那麼大呢如果你說你補助五成完 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
23372.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
23397.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
對你肯定你只有一成不到耶而且新竹縣我該問你你分配到多少你可以回答我所以我才覺得說你怎麼會把這個案子我們多次的跟您拜託教育部這個案子給我們重視到目前新竹縣一毛錢都沒有拿到而且剛才告訴我3.3億只分配到1.2億35分之1.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
23402.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
23424.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
你看這個一層都不到委員您應該非常清楚源頭在哪裡就是整個中央地方的財政結構發生重大的變化一年4165億的通貨分配成本到地方去中央就少了這麼多的調節能力所以一般性補助降低計劃性補助也必須要做同樣的一個調整所以在裡面調整的功能就非常非常的小 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
23425.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
23449.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
那如果回到行政院現在在大院裡面還在審查的院版裁判法那我們有信心也有能力來做更合理的中央與地方的補助你有信心有合理一定要審查院版的裁判法所以如果說這個未來整個總預算通過之後我還是做最後的我不想在這個問題再浪費下去您願意多補助給新竹縣嗎不是只有這個1.2億而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
23451.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
23470.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
我會請教育部在審慎的評估在中央現在僅有的這種財政調節能力底下能做多少我們盡量做大家對您的觀感就會覺得行政院一樣的民進黨執政時代的行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
23470.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
23485.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
怎麼會差那麼多觀感就是因為委員你錯誤的這種論調造成錯誤的印象我印象論調都是非常的合情合理我想我也不會去隨便做批判從開始到現在您都不提這個統籌分配稅款這個案子查核法不執行我也告訴你 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
23486.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
23508.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
所以裁判法不執行前還是在你們的在行政院我們在執行的是已經修正過的裁判法委員你是不是時序有點錯誤掉你有執行修正過的裁判法我們三途通過的裁判法沒有在執行這個當然是上一個上一個修正案你已經說不執行了你現在說你有執行上一個修正案你說的是第二個修正案 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
23509.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
23533.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
回到如果是原來的版本那為什麼蘇貞昌院長他可以去一下大刀闊斧的補助計程一樣的裁划法因為他的裁划法是以前是被你們修正掉的裁划法修正後的你不執行啊回到原來的裁划法這個你誤會大了現在我們在執行的是新的裁划法我拜託你真的不要忽視難道地方沒有多拿掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
23535.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
23557.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
4165億的統籌分配稅款嗎委員你這個誤會很大你不執行根本沒拿掉怎麼會拿掉呢委員你這個誤會真的大不執行怎麼會拿掉呢你再回去看一下所以新興計畫也給你們了你這邊3.3億所以可見你對新竹縣的這個高中這五大方案是多麼的不重視你的記憶是有一些落差的我只剩33秒最後我要請那個李洋理部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
23560.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
23587.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
那個部長請回 鄭部長請回謝謝委員您好院長我想這問題我還是問部長比較好部長你從選手轉任主管決策上任到現在七個多月了國人對你都有高度的期待也希望您能夠以自身豐富的經驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
23643.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
23645.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
好 謝謝林委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
23683.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
23684.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
好 謝謝林委員 謝謝卓院長下一位請鄭振淺委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
23701.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
23705.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
謝謝主席 我想請一下行政院卓榮泰院長請卓榮泰院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
23713.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
23732.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
政委好來 院長好我想第一個問題的部分要跟文化部有關因為公視基金會的董監事的問題其實持續很多年都引起國人很大的關注公視其實是全民的公視我們大概都理解 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
23732.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
23755.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
那監察院在2023年就已經有發文糾正行政院跟文化部而且很具體的提到了幾件事情第一個是直接講到第五屆到第七屆的董監事的改選長期延宕那這個問題很具體那麼第二對於整個補提名的部分不積極然後對於整個制度沒有完全的法制化 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
23755.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
23783.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
那這個在五到七屆的時候監察院已經糾正過了現在第八屆 情況還是一樣同樣的問題還是一樣持續的一個上演當中那我們知道在去年的12月17號的時候就是第一波的一個董監事提名過了有四席董事 四席監事都過了不過到了4月9號的時候有八席的審查委員聯名 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
23787.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
23803.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
辭職導致4月16號的問題流會我想請教一下卓院長三年前就已經糾正了問題為什麼今天還卡在同樣一個坑裡面可不可以請院長回答我們要去研究這幾位董事他提出辭職的原因是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
23805.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
23825.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
他提出的辭呈原因的時候就表示就是文化部在提名就是新的董監事人選的時候不願意去提早去做溝通那麼在這個部分我們針對公共辨識法政黨協商出來的名單才數成這個董事會嗎所以任何的名單送進去就由委員來審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
23826.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
23853.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
理解這個都沒有問題我覺得就是理論上面來說的時候文化部可以直接提了沒有問題可是問題是我想請教一下因為對於整個公共電視法第13條它很清楚的基本上是一個高門檻的一個共識決的一個高共識的一個制度要三分之二的多數決才能夠通過那所以說行政院這邊不是提完名之後提了名單 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
23855.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
23881 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
就結束了文化部也不是想要怎麼送這個名單就送這名單因為你要達成三分之二的高門檻的共識這是一個很重要的一個法律的一個前提所以我們看到這個問題就是目前我們看到文化部他有一些回應他沒有提早去整合也沒有提早去建立共識就把責任推給了審查委員跟在野黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
23881.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
23909.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
那我覺得有些指控其實非常的嚴重啦比方說文化部長直接提到說就是今天的困境就是因為在野黨擱置所致不能怪我們其實我有個疑問是如果不能夠怪文化部那是要怪卓院長嗎卓院長提了一個不願意去溝通的一個部長導致現在公視的本監視一直卡在這個地方可不可以請院長做個回答委員您的這番話對李遠部長是非常的不夠尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
23909.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
23933.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
他花了很多的時間去尋訪各界適合擔任董事的這些人名單出來而且真的是耗費非常多的精神一一的去說服拜託了解尋訪去找人沒有問題重點是需要審查委員會同意三分之二高門檻同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
23933.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
23948.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
所以你找你花了很多的時間無用的時間去找到的人然後審查委員會不願意接受也沒有辦法提到審查委員會來審查委員會連審查都不審查就辭職那這是誰的責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
23948.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
23975.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
之前去年12月已經審查過一次所以顯然當時提出來的人沒有辦法讓審查委員會同意所以我在這邊的時候我想特別問到一個問題我想請教一下院長你知不知道第七屆的時候公視董監事審查委員的比例是怎麼樣的一個情況院長知不知道我知道每一屆公視董事都非常難纏 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
23978.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
23991.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
對 可是第七屆他也就順利第二次就順利通過了你知道第七屆的時候公視董監事的審查委員比例是怎麼樣的一個組成嗎部長知不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
23992.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
24019.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
第七屆公視董建市審查委員的比例部長知不知道用政黨比例啊對 政黨比例是多少多少10比5啊10比5 誰10執政黨啊執政黨10可是那時候是四分之三啊那個時候那五個人也是杯葛啊你稍微我們看一下2022年的時候第七屆的時候的人數比例也不是10比5不是你講的這個狀態 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
24021.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
24032.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
第七屆的時候公視董監事的審查委員民進黨有八席然後國民黨有四席當時民眾黨一席然後時代力量有一席 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
24033.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
24056.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
這樣子的一個情況的時候在2022年當時李永德部長的時候他第一次提也沒有通過可是他很務實的去處理去面對整個審查委員會的一個結構所以他在第二波的時候就順利通過有12席董事通過12席董事通過的時候其中還有9席 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
24058.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
24086.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
是一致決 四席委員全部都通過的這個就是溝通的一個能量嘛那我們現在看到文化部的時候呢就是沒有打算要做好好的溝通你找了很多人沒有問題可是第一波的時候去年12月的時候已經很清楚知道只有四席董事過關還有這麼多席沒有過關第二次議你要在提名的時候是不是要做更多的溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
24087.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
24109.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
我覺得溝通是很重要的 不會讓我回答 不打緊回答公示法裡面就是不能夠讓政黨介入 黨政軍退出才會用政黨比例派出社會公正人士所以現在的審查委員就全部都是政黨比例推出來的一個公正人士所以為什麼要政黨協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
24111.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
24130.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
他已經代表民眾我們不講協商我們講事前的溝通你連溝通都不願意嗎我以後的一個狀態部長你在這邊的時候你連事前去做溝通你都不願意我們看到你以前當作家的時候我以前曾經是你的讀者你在給要流浪的孩子裡面特別提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
24133.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
24150.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
溝通是教育當中最重要的一個工作你在寫到爸爸我要休學面對的時候你都特別強調溝通的一個重要性跟價值可是我不知道為什麼當作家小野的時候不斷地強調溝通寫得很好 講得很好 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
24151.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
24171.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
可是進到行政院之後感覺變了一個人連董監事的溝通都不願意去溝通你就覺得你自己蒙著頭去找到人出來之後審查委員就要買你的單哪有這件事情啊你怎麼知道我沒有溝通呢去年12月31號我約兩邊的人見面我非常低姿態的協調 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
24173.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
24198.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
我不用政黨協調我跟委員協調委員說他要面試要寫報告我全部答應從來沒有過然後有一個委員馬上退出他是我的學生他看出來這件事情是集體做我有個學生國民黨的學生馬上退出他知道這件事情個人不能夠決定的是團體決定團體決定就是要政黨協調 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
24201.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
24221.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
我覺得既然審查委員當時是按照政黨的比例推出來的人選你在溝通當中的時候你多花一些能力時間去溝通有這麼困難嗎可是我覺得當我們現在碰到這個問題的時候我們看到的情況是你直接把溝通講成政治勒索 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
24221.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
24250.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
把學生說成是綁架我覺得把責任全部推到了在野黨跟審查委員當中我覺得這是很難被人家接受的事情如果說你那個溝通的非常的有效率有能力的時候我覺得審查委員不會聯名辭職如果聯名辭職你都覺得跟你沒有關係都是他們自己的關係的時候那我覺得院長我覺得這樣子的一個部長在溝通的過程當中顯然是有問題的 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
24252.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
24279.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
部長已經跟委員講了連現在的溝通我都聽出來是委員有問題他講得很清楚啊他都有去溝通啊雙邊坐下來談那他也提到說自己一個學生的特例你也知道他不是沒有溝通你還在說部長沒有溝通那這個溝通溝通無效嘛溝通你要有成績比方說立法議局定案了第七屆的時候很清楚我剛剛可以比到一個地方第七屆的狀態的時候更清楚更是 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
24280.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
24299.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
民進黨的委員 佔據更高的一個比例可是 李永德當時 他都用更大的一個誠意去做溝通可是現在的情況 當巴西委員他們會直接逐秀而去的時候 反正他們講到你有溝通 現在是有溝通嘛第七屆等了一千天 能夠再多嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
24300.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
24303.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
現在我期待你們再派八個人過來我還是會堅持公司不能夠黨政軍介入你派八個公正人士 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
24320.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
24343.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
你要刷我的人公視原本就沒有黨債軍介入現在公視的狀態審查委員的時候政黨比例推出來的狀態可是文化部如果說要非常的二把覺得你推出來的人選審查委員都不能夠有意見的時候那我覺得接下來的一個審查可能也未必這麼容易就能夠過我覺得部長你以前書寫得很好也講得很好 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
24345.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
24360.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
溝通一直掛在嘴巴上面我認為你現在在文化部當中對於公視、董監視的溝通你一定要更盡一些心思而不是你覺得你講了之後大家都得要買你的這個單沒有這樣的一件事情審查委員他們也有獨立的意志好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
24361.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
24385.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
我始終如一我堅持公共電視黨政軍不能介入我們也希望文化部不要把黑手伸進公共電視裡面好不好公共電視那邊不是文化部一眼旁部長想要找什麼樣的人都是你的意志去行使如果說審查委員不同意的時候你就不同意你就直接在這邊直接去 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
24386.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
24410.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
抹黑審查委員跟在野黨我覺得這樣的溝通是無效的溝通我們希望看到小野時代的作家那個時候小野作家那個時代的一個強調溝通的能力能夠在文化部長的離遠的時候也能夠把它做得好好不好我看到的事實是八個委員要用自己八個委員的意志來影響改變決定整個提名的名單就是這樣子而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
24411.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
24427.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
八個委員已經是在二分之一了我們公視董監視的部分是要三分之二多數決啊你連三分之二多數決你連二分之一都沒有辦法說服你三分之二多數決怎麼去做到連部長提名的這個權利都要被完全收回去嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
24430.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
24456.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
不用啊 可是部長提名的時候重點是要能夠有效的溝通好不好重點有效的溝通這個部分我希望卓院長會覺得擔心我們希望公視的董監事不要在這邊延擋那麼久那委員應該認定部長有去溝通同意 請做有效的溝通請做有效的溝通好不好那我接下來想請教一下跟體育部有關 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
24460.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
24487.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
院長我想請教一下奧運雙金的運動部長運動部長的時候他是具有實權還是只是執政黨把他提名出來的一個花瓶或者是政治門面可不可以請這個問題問部長答覆會比較真實你覺得你是花瓶嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
24488.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
24495.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
我想我們上任以來做了許多的改變不知道委員您說的我知道你是不是花瓶你覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
24497.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
24521.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
還是你覺得你是執政黨的一個政治門面我個人覺得今天院長非常信任我那也讓我給予我很多機會去改變那希望在這一點上面也請委員指教我想請教院長你知道正事中正次他提出辭呈是在什麼時候你在什麼時候批准的 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
24522.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
24550.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
日期我真的現在記不起來但是傳來給我看的那個辭職信當中部長是簽過名的部長是簽過名的來 所以你是什麼時候辭職那為什麼4月9號的時候李洋部長在接受委員質詢的時候直接表示你是4月9號看了媒體才知道是媒體有問題還是那公文有人造假 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
24551.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
24565.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
部長請回答公委員您報告那當天公文確實在前一天有進入到我辦公室但我確實沒有看到你沒看到你沒看到那誰簽的我隔天備詢完之後回去簽的 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
24565.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
24585.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
你備許完之後才去簽的鄭次長現在的這一個請職的因為當天的時候這個地方因為媒體是直接講到說因為就是4月9號的時候院長已經批准了那我覺得這個部分因為坦白說因為李揚是雙金的奧運 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
24586.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
24615.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
的選手其實我們對他也有很多期待尤其是他之前捐出一千萬的獎金其實我們也都感同身受也都肯定李揚他對於整個台灣運動相關事務的誠意再加上他上任七個月的時候刪減了三億元的福編的經費我們都可以看出李揚他想要認真的來推動這個事情可是為什麼我會特別提到戰次辭職的時候部長好像最後一個才知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
24616.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
24619.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
再加上就是田徑 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
24641.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
24649.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
我們都確定這是一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
24663.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
24667.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
好 謝謝謝謝鄭委員 謝謝卓院長下一位請謝宜鳳委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
24684.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
24696.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
謝謝江副院長我想要請卓院長還有政部長吳祖偉我們請卓院長、政部長、吳祖偉請備詢謝委員好卓院長午安我想要請問一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
24711.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
24730.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
國發會它有預估2025到2028我們AI的人口的缺口即將要達到了35萬人那今年賴總統又宣布是AI的人才年我想要請問一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
24732.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
24749.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
現在我們怎麼樣子協助企業因為根據人工智慧科技基金會他的調查顯示台灣的產業AI化大調查裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
24750.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
24775.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
在組織端有44.7%的企業都沒有制定任何的AI人才的培訓那有61.8%的AI的企業他的AI應用是在組織之外那真正有把整個AI融入核心的企業的這樣子的運作只有6.6%那我想要請問鄭部長的 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
24778.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
24800.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
怎麼樣子不讓我們的AI教育只是成為學校的通識教育而是真的能夠運用到企業你從這樣子的一個調查看起來目前企業好像沒有辦法真的運用那還是我們在AI人才上面是真的缺乏呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
24803.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
24828.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
跟我們報告謝謝我很關心我們在AI人才的培育到這個學校的一個能量怎麼樣去加惠到這個產業的這個AI能力的一個提升確實我們這個隨時是AI科技的一個快速發展跟我們報告一個數據在去年的時候我們你說二刀流嘛對不對教育人才二刀流我們教育在中小學老師我們大概有兩萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
24830.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
24843.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
2萬個老師的一個這個在職徵人去年但是到今年在上個月我們已經增加到5萬人也就是說我們透過這一個許多這個研習這個老師的培訓徵人我們從 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
24846.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
24864.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
這個校長老師到家長我們也包含怎麼樣去使用這個科技AI的許多的注意事項包含老師的教學我們都有提供了這個你現在講的你不要只賴總統講二刀流你就講二刀流 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
24866.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
24880.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
現在AI的運用不只要二刀流三刀流四刀流五刀流全面性嘛是不是各科技都要跟AI運用嘛我只是舉我們老師的一個教訓已經有增加50% |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
24884.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
24912.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
另外就是在大學端我們有TICA我們從這一個前年的一個9月我們就開始從大學裡邊因為我們並不是每一個大學都像台城清教有非常豐富的AI專長的一個領域的老師我們也開始結合大學的資源你講到重點了是不是AI領域的老師甚至是在我們AI人才上都是缺乏的對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
24913.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
24927.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
我們再快速的讓新世代的這些大學生研究生他們也能夠儘管學校可能沒有這方面的專長我們也透過線上用這個結合台城清交的私資來協助我講的是源頭吳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
24930.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
24951.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
你也非常重視AI人才的共同的培訓你知道企業如果缺乏AI人才未來整體我們台灣要發展AI那真的就是怎麼樣子緣木求魚嗎是不是報告委員因為AI進展非常快速所以我們大部分企業社會需要的人才都是要在職在業培訓 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
24952.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
24981.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
我們學校教育當然是全民性在訓練現在的學生可是目前經濟部是很努力在推動在職培訓我們教育部的技職體系的學校其實也很努力在做產學合作所以從學校跟企業端政府現在都大力在培訓我們的AI的人才我知道你們都想要大力培訓可是從源頭就不夠我想請問你們有沒有考慮過 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
24983.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
25002.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
業界實質有沒有辦法導入業界實質就是從實務界AI界因為我們現在一直在推的是說什麼數位遊牧啊我們希望說這樣子數位遊牧他們的簽證可以比較久嘛那 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
25003.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
25019.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
這個部分還有我們希望向外攬財再就向外攬財到台灣來以及整個我們怎麼樣減少學用落差那我想請問過去行政院有沒有討論過業界失職 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
25023.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
25044.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
委員這個建議是很好你有討論過嗎?吳主委國會跟政府跟那個現在討論是不是?不是,我們討論過了我講跟委員報告,對不起我來打岔首先要感謝我們這個大院的支持在我們特別預算裡邊有提供了199.4億來支持這個攬財 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
25051.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
25057.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
包含我們也因為這樣提出了一個所謂類醫學院的包含這個產學怎麼樣合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
25058.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
25085.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
我們確實是有這個考慮到說我們怎麼樣去把業界在科技產業的這些知識能夠引進到大學裡面有一個共聘合併的一個機制那另外呢也跟委員報告我們確實教育部現在在規劃一個AI世代這個未來人才的一個想像圖像也確實引用了這個借用了我們像這個以前Google這個簡歷風還有我們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
25086.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
25106.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
鴻海的一個研究院的總經理他們的院長我們有許多業界來幫我們來規劃來想像我們在AI的世代裡邊我們未來的人才包含從小學到大學所有的這樣的一個能力我講的是從源頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
25108.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
25129.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
所以產業這邊已經開始剛才吳主委也特別提到產業怎麼跟學校裡面有提多的產學合作我們這一個事實上管道都是暢通的產學合作跟合併現在我們會同步進行所以會善用業界的私製人才所以產學合作跟合併所以在法律上沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
25130.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
25153.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
就是沒有問題的沒有問題那怎麼樣子在這幾年間就是2025到2028我們要解決這個35萬的缺口那怎麼樣子能夠擴大這種人才的培訓以及你不要再講二刀流了吧對不對 二刀流不夠嘛你為什麼不敢大膽的講 卓院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
25155.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
25184.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
為什麼不敢大膽的講二刀流夠嗎二刀流夠嗎你現在需要跨領域的合作各個領域都要介入各行各業百工百業現在你們在推AI在導入AI那你只有什麼二刀流那其他的都不用哪兩個科系哪兩個科系要是每一個科系都可能需要AI的導入是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
25185.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
25213.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
是的確對各行各業我們都會去協助所以我們也會發展相關的工具這個工具讓各行各業都可以使用那卓議員長那目標有沒有可能達成350萬的不是350萬35萬的AI人才缺口這個在我們AI新十大建設當中也有一個區塊是人才的培育跟資金的引入在人才培育當中從過去經濟部 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
25215.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
25231.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
跟教育部 國科會等等都有不同的計畫在做執行比方說我們有一個Steam的這個先進的人才的培訓就有一個4700位的人才希望能夠培訓出來當然人才培訓不是一朝一夕那我們在你有沒有辦法達成目標啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
25231.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
25248.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
我們既然設定目標就是逐步向目標前進逐步連來達成這個目標但是這個現在的困難度是業界也非常的欠缺各種的人才我們要從業界的業師來除非說跟學校來做大規模的這種產學合作或者困難還是有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
25248.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
25269.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
而且現在不只是在大學部分的AI的師資不夠所以我才提是不是叫業界師資然後在中小學高中的部分我回到彰化一看在偏遠在偏鄉的非六都以外的最大的縣市結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
25271.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
25279.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
不管是AI的失之也好不管是設備也好可能都有欠缺這怎麼解決呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
25280.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
25306.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
我們希望這個數位的落差我們能夠在過去的計劃能夠逐步的把它擬平起來各個城鄉之間數位的落差這個是在硬體設備上面的那至於說實質因為小學國中我們讓他提早進入到AI的領域當中絕對是需要的那他所需要的就不是那種最高深的而是基本的那基本的人才我們經過這樣的培訓是可以在學校裡面找到培訓的對象 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
25307.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
25333.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
卓院長你不要講得太快喔我跟你講這有陷阱喔問題是你問問鄭部長鄭部長你們是不是有針對13歲以下的學生你們有一個英才網易度這樣子的一個工具他說在防範學生私下使用通用型的AI就像CheckGDP還像Gimli我想請教喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
25335.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
25357.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
我們這樣子會不會有政策矛盾一方面我們希望學生可以趕快的銜接AI一方面我們又不希望他用AI當然我們現在在使用網路或者是科技的工具的時候你用Gemini用ChatGPT好像是日常一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
25358.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
25377.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
那你應該是教導學生怎麼樣正確的使用嗎這個就是教育的一部分不能讓他盡興依賴你這樣子來看吳主委你看一下如果這樣子中小學的教育會不會導致我們AI的政策有矛盾性 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
25378.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
25395.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
委員講的我非常同意就是說我們從小要教小朋友讓他知道AI的能力跟他的限制他可能會造成的危害讓他了解這一點然後老師要教他善用這個AI的工具在沒有指導之下讓他自己去使用的確是有危險 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
25396.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
25420.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
但是我們要善用嘛要教他怎麼樣檢查嘛檢查就是說我們運用Google找出來的資料是否有正確性嘛這都是我們大人我們在社會上大家都會正確的在想辦法在使用這個可是如果我們在中小學的這個AI教育以及AI師資大學都沒有了 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
25421.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
25447.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
我們中小學AI怎麼辦中委員包括委員所關心的跟所擔心的確實就是我們教育部現在所規劃的我們希望在小學階段裡面12歲以下他不要用深層式AI是在老師裡的一個指導怎麼使用因為許多的這一些深層式許多的一個資訊到底怎麼樣去判斷很多的東西能力他都是必須要被指導然後被引導被老師來教導然後慢慢的而且他不能只是 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
25448.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
25471.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
完全靠電腦生成所有的資訊所以代表中小學生不能用Google不能用Google因為現在Google已經你知道嗎我說Google已經都已經要讓學生建立一個正確的觀念我想在許多的一個學習過程我們希望他能夠更養成一個能夠提問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
25473.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
25502.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
而且能夠辨別這個訊息的一個真偽而且不是只是解決問題的時候只是把題目丟給電腦然後深層次AI幫他找答案我想這裡邊我們是有一套的從產業的專業到這個學科領域的專家我們事實上現在就是在討論這一個基本能力而且我們初步的那一個的規劃的圖像已經各個年級的一個目標能力的一個培養跟要怎麼樣有 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
25503.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
25519.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
使用這個科技的一些倫理這些我們都納入規劃那怎麼樣解決偏鄉以及就是目前AI失之還甚至我提到了甚至是雙語的教育也有失之的這樣子的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
25522.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
25542.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
我想我們確實在這一個部分這一個政策當我們今年的預算過以後我們事實上已經跟22個地方縣市這個不用等預算過啦這個現在就可以做了啦我們確實這裡邊包含地方跟中央怎麼合作讓所有的學生在未來裡邊我們逐年能夠每一個學生都有所謂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
25543.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
25559.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
這一個iPad能夠直接在學校裡面的學習包含我們的酷英網事實上我們都在整個網頁的許多的線上的一個學習的一個資源都已經開發好了而且這也都是結合AI裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
25559.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
25582.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
所以這個部分也利用這個機會跟委員報告我不是在說這個而是我們中央跟地方已經有一個合作模式包含電腦的採購中央有多少地方付多少都已經傳統了這還是賴總統所自己宣示的嘛今年是AI人才年嘛那我們怎麼樣培訓AI的人才嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
25582.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
25610.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
這個東西不用等預算這個東西你們整個行政院都應該大力去做啊是不是那你們沒有做導致於現在在基層在各縣市大家在找這個AI的師資在找雙語的師資等等的都面臨相關的問題未來在我們怎麼樣子全力發展AI產業的時候這都是一個非常嚴重的問題我希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
25611.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
25613.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
謝謝 謝委員謝謝卓院長 下一位請羅志強委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
25653.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
25673.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
主席有請卓院長還有鄭部長好請卓院長鄭部長卓委員好好 院長好委員好部長好 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
25675.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
25692.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
院長還有部長因為我這個會期到教育文化委員會上次在質詢的時候我也跟部長有說過所以我到我的選區的學校然後去拜訪然後去聽聽教學的第一現場的問題坦白講 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
25694.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
25719.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
很多校長家長老師跟我反映很多問題比方說也有老師反映所以我們政府有很多政令宣導所以為了要把政令宣導推下去就是在學校填了很多的所謂的他們的一個培訓課程可是充斥太多的一些培訓課程給他們的時候反而干擾到他們的教學的時程 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
25720.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
25744.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
那這一點我好想請院長跟部長能不能關心一下因為老師教學的重心終究還是在學生教學身上那我們的衛福部也好我們的運動部也好或是我們這個什麼經濟部也好所以確實有很多整體選考想做但是可不可以挑重點讓老師來去參加這些所謂的研習不要把老師的時間都綁進這個研習能不能請部長去關心一下這個問題可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
25746.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
25763.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
謝謝委員關心 確實我們也 我進來以後也看到這個第一線上的老師他們覺得有許多的行政的工作是繁複的 特別小型學校他的結構老師就 老師的編制就是比較 因為我們有增加了額外的這個補充的資質 但是還是不夠的 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
25765.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
25793.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
所以我們在這個今年等於我們已經全面的在已經完成盤點也就是說去年底我們完全的盤點我們大概在行政的減量裡邊我們大概就是說只要是等於說基本資料的線上有的我們不會每年再叫老師去填那另外一個是譬如說有一些routine每年要 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
25794.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
25810.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
報表的輔導工作的他從一個月每個月要填報的我們現在改為半年然後有一些老師的研習就是說我們也開始改為有一些是可以線上學習你不一定要週車勞頓甚至有一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
25810.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
25825.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
研習老師已經過去參加過了相同的一個課題他就不要再反覆的參加研習等等的我們大概有將近七成大概盤點了在這一個裡邊也跟我們報告我們有跟地方22個地方縣市政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
25826.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
25845.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
教育局去說拜託我們大家一起來努力因為確實老師應該讓他更多的重心在專注在教學把小孩子帶好首先我先代表這些老師跟部長說聲謝謝我今天也必須提出這個問題因為事實上我大概不到一個月前我拜訪很多選區學校 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
25846.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
25862.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
幾乎都共同提出這個問題所以那很好部長也看到這問題那第二個問題我也把大家心聲反應給我們部長等於是在教學現場我帶來聲音我給院長跟部長那第二個就是說因為少子化的因素事實上現在很多學校發生的一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
25864.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
25877.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
導護老師不足導護志工不足就是說為什麼因為我後來問說原因是什麼因為少子化學生變少其實家長也變少但是入口沒變少學生安全維護的入口沒有變少 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
25877.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
25896.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
那這時候就發現說導護志工的不夠造成說學生在到學堂上學的過程當中就會出現安全的問題我不知道部長有沒有掌握這一點院長有沒有掌握這一點能不能怎麼去想辦法改善這個問題是要增加導護志工的一個誘因還是怎麼樣那另外還有就是導護志工因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
25897.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
25925.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
現在新補的來源不夠所以他也有年齡偏高的問題有時候我們年紀大的長輩當然很熱心可是他有時候他們在馬路上在執行導護工作的時候有時候他反而是需要關心照顧的人那這個我也是在現場反映給我們部長跟院長可以嗎謝謝委員關心學生的一個交通安全我想交通安全本來也是特別國民教育得志體勤每五億均衡發展怎麼樣去 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
25926.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
25947.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
包含這個安全的一個教育這都是一個重要的一個特別對小孩子那另外我要跟委員報告就是說我們現在通學步道從交通部裡邊在各個縣市裡邊也在希望能夠讓學生到學校的這一個通學的步道它是安全的那感謝委員的一個提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
25948.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
25969.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
確實有一些我們一直希望中小學他就是社區的一個中心學生來自於這個社區怎麼樣社區的一些家長或者他不一定小孩子還有在學校讀書可能長大了畢業了他也能夠如果他行有一例也能夠來關照我想全方面的包含 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
25971.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
25991.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
地方的派出所警察局也都在上放學的時候我跟部長講就是這些都要配套啦有點那個核心問題是就是我去那個學校去訪問的時候就很多學校都共同提出導護志工的問題所以它不是一個單一學校的問題它是一個系統性的問題所以這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
25992.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
26015.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
也拜託部裡研究如果有什麼報告可以再給我好不好所以我會努力的把資訊提供給教育部並且來改善這個問題那下一個問題我要問我想院長你知道去年一一四學年度你知道一一四學年度各級學校學生總數是多少嗎各級學校這個數字我告訴你392萬392.8了 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
26021.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
26046.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
這個104 10年前是461.6萬所以10年少了68.8萬這是跟我剛剛前面講的問題其實有些相關性你會發現為什麼學生少家長數也少那它已經超過一個雲林縣人口數相當於1.5個台南市的學生全部都消失那這個部分還沒有到谷底你也知道現在少子化更嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
26047.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
26076.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
那114學年度全國國小學生總數是116.5萬那教育部預測說未來平均每學年會減少3.2萬118學年度就會跌破100萬那這個部分我在選區去拜訪的時候其實他們有點到一個解方我想提供一下院長跟部長他不是針對去減少學生的部分而是他們就開始出現學校 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
26077.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
26091.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
要必須減班的問題減班的問題因為學生越來越少可是其實現在也有學校的老師或是校長跟我反映說他說其實包括教育團說其實減班是沒辦法的事 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
26092.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
26114.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
在減班之前可以先做一個動作做一件事就是降低每個班級的人數以現行標準國小是每班29人國中每班30人他們認為是可以分階段再往下調整這樣可以優化所謂教學的品質減班數也可以變得比較少一點我不知道我們的部長院長有沒有研究過這方面的可能性 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
26116.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
26144.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
這是一個趨勢像我們以前在學校都是五六十人一班那現在你看打了六折了打了六折那未來的趨勢最近也有很多報導也是如此幾年之後整個人口數會往下降雖然我們現在極力用人口對策想要撐住那非常非常的賣力但是成效並不很顯見但無論如何面對這個教育資源我們希望教育資源在面對更小的學生更少的學生人數當中現有的教育資源應該做到更好 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
26145.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
26173.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
所以如果能夠朝這個方向來做的話請教育部來跟地方政府也來商量怎麼樣來解決目前這個班數數的問題非常謝謝院長至少我覺得院長有一個正面肯定這個方向那也請部裡面來研究因為也確實我真的在這趟拜訪收穫很多啦那很多現場的問題時候沒有去並不知道那如果大家幾個學校共同提出這個意見的時候就發現這意見他當然他們有想過所以這一點也就要麻煩我們的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
26174.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
26194.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
院長跟部長再多關心一下那再來下一個我就想請教院長就是說少子化是國安危機嘛這你認同吧對不對少子女化的問題一直是我們人口對策當中要去解決的那當然已經上升到一個對於國安層次的問題了我覺得坦白講啦這個應該不用問院長院長也會認同 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
26197.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
26209.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
我們的少子女化的問題真的非常嚴重你說比方說前年我們的出生薪生額還有13.4萬去年就掉到10.7萬今年應該會保不住10對不對 沒錯吧 院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
26215.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
26239.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
如果照趨勢來看那我們現在能來撐但撐不會在今年就發生效果可能往後一年兩年之後這我先把問題點出來就是說今年看起來院長也不覺得樂觀因為你看1月2月3月數字你就知道都還在繼續跌那已經到10.7萬那另外我跟院長提醒一下當然這邊國發會不在你知道國發會上面的有關於我們的那個新生兒的預測人數他那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
26242.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
26271.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
他的數字很有趣你要請他們好好去我都覺得幾乎是亂填的你知道嗎應該比現在實質上的高對 但是就是高很多高到不切實際當時的預估你起碼要面對問題我要講就是說我們在10年前我們的新生兒人數還有20萬對不對現在已經腰斬了看起來狀況還繼續惡化但是我要想請教一下我們的院長你知道現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
26274.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
26284.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
韓國他也是少子女化很嚴重可是他這兩年他們開始出現很大的反轉韓國今年二月新生兒接近兩萬三千人是同月份七年來最高 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
26285.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
26311.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
去年4月到今年3月登記懷孕的孕婦跟新媽媽人數總數達到35.1萬人比前一年30萬人增加16%然後他們的新生兒人數回升到25萬人今年可以回升到30萬人那也是他們出生人數從2024年7月起已經連續20個月呈現正成長上升總生育率是0.93人較去年增加0.1人 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
26313.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
26335.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
我真的要拜託我們院長就是責成各部會去韓國取個金好不好我們現在已經把韓國甚至日本尤其韓國我們列為很重要的觀察的一個對象國家他在一兩年當中能夠從0.8一直上升到0.9這個趨勢我們認為他其中一定有某些因素跟我們是相同我們可以來共同學習的 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
26336.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
26349.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
院長所以你打算定的目標有想好嗎我們的總出生率你有沒有什麼新的目標我這樣講賴總統在2017年當行政院長的時候我們的總生育率是1.17人 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
26350.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
26377.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
那他那時候定下2030年要把總生育率提高到1.4人可是到現在努力了8年結果我們生育率從1.17人掉到剩下0.695人我不知道院長你有沒有把握能夠回到2017年賴總統的版本能夠把生育率定到1.4人做得到嗎應該沒有一步到位的可能性但我們先從0.69開始我們往上升先到0.8、0.9什麼時候可以到0.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
26381.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
26386.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
我們現在在訂整套的計畫一年兩年三年五年 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
26387.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
26415.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
有沒有一個院長抱歉這不是刁難你因為我們在做公共政策我們設定目標一定有配搭的時間既然韓國可以在兩年之內有一個明顯的顯著我們可以充分的去吸取他的經驗跟我們國情相同的我們給這些年輕的家庭更多的補助更多的時間讓他有彈性獲得更多的人力協助我不直接說你兩年要到0.8但是往這目標努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
26416.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
26443.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
那我想這個先時間暫停一下先請那個我們鄭部長先回座我們請我們的議員李部長上來院長和部長我接下來放一段文化部補助過的歌曲 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
26444.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
26464.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
那我會消音因為說真的我的心臟不夠大可能文化藝術涵養也不夠所以有些的字詞我真的也沒辦法在國會殿堂播出來但是在播之前我也怕大家看不清楚那個圓文是什麼我把原句把它送給我們的院長跟部長我們時間先暫停一下好嗎2019年的篇幅 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
26485.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
26486.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
好 我們開始播放 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
26513.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
26534.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
院長部長不好意思我真的覺得我的心臟不夠大藝術文化音樂的涵養可能也不夠這首歌文化部補助70萬我想請教院長不為難你有辦法把裡面的歌詞唸給大家聽我都不敢放上去你有辦法唸出來給大家聽嗎 院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
26535.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
26555.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
我的文字造詣沒有那麼好每一個字你中文都認得但是我相信你念不出來部長你念得出來嗎是這樣子我覺得這首歌一直被大家拿出來吵它其實是2019年我們對遊戲音樂的補助對象是各式各樣有龐克有地下樂團這首歌 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
26557.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
26587.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
在當時就是拿到了補助所有的評審委員都給他過過的原因就是因為他是一個地下樂團我直接唸給你聽我沒有怪院長沒拜過部長因為那是在前文化部長任內就是鄭麗君的任內我們的補助上面寫得很清楚增進台灣流行音樂產業動態促進產業各環節多元發展提升流行音樂製作品質強化全球競爭力之影響力 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
26587.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
26609.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
補助的標準是這個那我還是要讓社會大大的公判那麼多的文化音樂團體需要補助這70萬也得來不易不是每個人都拿得到那你今天跟我講一個你們連歌詞都唸不出來的歌在這個地方得到文化部70萬補助我只能說我的文化藝術涵養沒有鄭麗君高啊所以拜託還是謹慎用公帑 謝謝好 謝謝羅委員 謝謝左院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
26619.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
26629.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
下一位陳樹越委員之質詢書面提出請行政院書面答覆並列入紀錄刊登公報下一位請蔡春籌委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
26653.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
26661.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
副院長好有請卓院長還有鄭部長請卓院長、鄭部長備詢蔡委好院長好我是來自一個基層的高中老師 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
26679.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
26707.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
我要引用親子天下三月的時候公布一個教師幸福感這樣一個名調還有許多媒體專題的報導都指出老師在教育現場壓力非常非常的大行政工作教師待遇還有校事會議好像是三座大山壓在基層老師的身上院長你是否有了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
26710.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
26738.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
現在老師的工作上的壓力確實是不是過去過去那個時代我們都尊師重道無礙無私的時代還有更早天地君君是類似這樣的一個但現在來看因為老師各種行政壓力情緒壓力教學壓力以及來自各種學校裡面團體不同在工作上互相的有一些工作上的交集還有學生多樣化的學生還有很多比方說 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
26740.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
26761.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
犯罪年齡下降會帶動校園還有校園毒品等等詐欺年輕化等等都變成老師很沉重的負擔好 謝謝謝謝院長能夠了解我們現在目前的一個教育現況那所以有快樂的老師才會有快樂的學生這一句話院長您應該是同意吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
26764.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
26776.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
院長應該是同意吧所以在這裡院長你是否願意跟我還有我們的正部長一起來解決交易現場的一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
26778.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
26795.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
當然當然願意我們願意從各角度各方面來解決對好那我們能夠來改善第一線老師的處境所以呢我們在這裡部長 院長你也表態了嘛我們一起來努力嘛好那我們現在呢要請教我們的鄭部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
26797.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
26806.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
部長教育部去年 去年底有說行政減量已經盤點150項 完成104項 達成69%請問鄭部長 這個69%是教育部自己盤點出來的項目的完成率還是老師實際行政工作的一個減少率 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
26820.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
26833.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
跟委員報告這確實是我們這兩年來除了我們國教署歷年來的許多的這一個行政業務跟低基層老師的座談這個的了解以外也是這兩年來我大概跟這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
26835.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
26865.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
基層老師的座談裡邊彙整了我們全面的盤點所以這裡邊我特別要跟我們報告比如說有許多的這個表單的一個填報屬於這個學校組織的網路上電腦上就直接能夠Download我們就不再請學校再來提報那另外一個像輔導工作過去是每個月月報我們現在減到半年才一次那老師的研習有許多的研習 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
26866.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].end |
26889.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].text |
怕老師的舟車勞頓我們有一些開始改線上的研習然後他有一些已經研習過的專業發展的研習活動我們只要他已經研習過也不希望他再參加類似這樣我們確實有很多的部分我們做了一個前面的盤點 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
26891.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].end |
26911.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].text |
謝謝部長的一個回答但是我還是很質疑學校的行政工作一般我們叫做教師兼教務主任教師兼教務主任教務主任他的行政工作一定這些行政工作所以你沒有辦法幫他減量 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
26913.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].end |
26929.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].text |
跟委員報告確實這個國教法裡面他這個主任由老師來兼任這是在明文上規定但是也隨著社會的一個快速變遷我們看到這一個學生人數每一個每一位學生都是每一個家庭的寶 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
26929.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].end |
26945.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].text |
所以我們怎麼樣去減少老師的工作壓力陳儒委員所說的能夠讓老師更專注在教學所以我們從今這個學年度開始我們也全面的去協助學校在學務人力上的一個補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
26945.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].end |
26961.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].text |
那從去年裡面等於這一年來我們將近有598位的學校裡面來直接補助他這一個教師人力增加一個人力或者給副組長的這樣一個今天看各地方縣市政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].start |
26962.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].end |
26978.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].text |
那另外我們國立的這個所謂的完全中學我們也大概有200多個學校也都可以這個校士人力的一些我們也希望就是能夠教師跟行政能夠分立讓老師還給學生讓老師能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].start |
26982.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].end |
27011.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].text |
真正的來照顧我們的小孩子小朋友讓我們的老師專心在教學部分然後行政工作呢我們未來希望就是能夠婚曆這個我在執行部長的時候我也提過就是說我們希望能夠教學就是教學行政工作跟行政工作我們把這兩個婚那個婚曆這個我想我們是未來要努力的地方對不對有一些部分的 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].start |
27012.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].end |
27038.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].text |
這個行政能力可以專職化這確實我曾經跟院長報告過我們怎麼樣在朝那個目標怎麼樣來中央跟地方一起來合作因為國民教育我們來檢壓老師的壓力國民教育中就地方的一個前者特別現在這個地方從今年開始以後他有非常豐富的這些教育資源直接下注到地方我想他們可以地方跟中央怎麼樣來合作一定可以來 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
27039.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].end |
27061.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].text |
讓老師有一個提升他的一個教學的心態部長已經說過非教學學務直接的這些工作未來考量有一個可以變革的方式讓我們想各方面的這個條件看起來這個方向也值得再去深一層去評估也請委員多多指教好 謝謝謝謝院長跟部長的一個努力我們也樂觀其成能夠希望真正能夠達成那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
27062.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].end |
27079.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].text |
專責化我們再來講一個校園的爛樹之前我們講過在親子的一個夜刊裡面我們有看到老師不幸福老師沒有尊嚴這個源頭是來自於校士會議的一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].start |
27086.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].end |
27109.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].text |
院長你可以感受到我在4月10號有辦了一個教師荒在公聽會上面最震撼的一句話就是宜寧縣斗右國中的一個校長他說現在基層的學校不是在辦學已經是在辦案了院長你可以感受到這一句話的背後的那種心酸嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].start |
27110.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].end |
27125.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].text |
就是校園裡面有一些特殊都是個別的案件經過這樣的一個組織他變成在裡面去了解事情的過程當中程序上我覺得應該可以更優化精進了以前在學校裡面家長會 校長 還有教師會 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].start |
27127.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].end |
27142.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].text |
這三個只要大家很和諧大概學校裡面會非常的寧靜 非常的安詳但是這個校式會議我覺得我們還是要做一個很大的一個檢查應該讓他的組織能夠比較更合理化去發展這個有待中央地方各級學校 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
27142.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].end |
27162.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].text |
要把老師的尊嚴還有管教錢要還給老師那我們的校園的氣候才能夠才有陽光照射進來要不然我們現在的校園氣候是烏雲密布所以在這裡呢我很沉重的呼籲我們教育部他的用意都是好的我覺得從這個用意的起點我們再來做怎麼樣的微調讓他能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
27163.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].end |
27179.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].text |
照原來設計的這種規範跟組織的精神下去執行會比較合理我們在今年事實上已經校士會過去因為本來對一些不適任老師的要解聘不續聘的 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].start |
27180.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].end |
27203.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].text |
這些要進入到校事會議但是確實在去年一整年委員剛才有一個統計數字變成大小事老師可能只是一個這一個班級經營或者一個上課上一句話上課可能需要做調整被人家提醒全部都進入到校事會議也早變成大家每次往往我們今年已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].start |
27205.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].end |
27232.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].text |
這個改變了嘛所以委員也知道我們現在這個匿名濫訴的這個匿名投訴我們不處理我們用分流還有許多的這些變革也跟委員報告我們也在監控OK好我們期待我們教育部的一個大大獲福的一個改革好謝謝部長那請主席呢我們時間暫停一下我們現在有請那個運動部里楊部長那請那個鄭部長回座 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].start |
27233.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].end |
27234.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].text |
來 我們請立東部長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].start |
27248.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].end |
27264.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].text |
委員您好好 院長請問一下院長你知不知道就是曾經我們有一個叫做台灣區田徑公開賽的這樣一個賽事然後後來被取消你知道這件事情嗎 院長我知道好 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].start |
27265.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].end |
27281.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].text |
那我現在就是要來請教我們李洋部長在執行的時候呢我在4月9號在執行的時候呢有執行我們的李洋部長就是說為什麼會停止那我們有 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].start |
27281.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].end |
27299.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].text |
雙方有做一個溝通然後我要請部長去了解以後跟本辦來做一個報告但是我沒有得到那個部長連結的一個報告但是我在報章雜誌看到的就是這個公開賽繼續辦但是他改了名字那我也很奇怪 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].start |
27300.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].end |
27315.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].text |
一下子說要辦一下子說不辦然後要辦的時候又為什麼會改名字那這個過程我們都不知道那這裡呢要請李洋部長來解釋一下為什麼本來就是台灣區填線公開賽為什麼會變成新北市的台灣填線公開賽 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].start |
27317.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].end |
27337.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].text |
跟委員您說明,那在當天委員您講完之後,其實非常多委員都很關注,感謝你關注我們這個運動賽事的舉辦那其實當天,這幾天其實一直都有跟這個田徑協會的我知道,這個你們都有協商了,我只是覺得說很好奇,為什麼你這個協商完之後為什麼沒有送報告來到本辦啊? |
| transcript.whisperx[664].start |
27339.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].end |
27354.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].text |
那我現在就要告訴你說你這整個一個協商的過程為什麼會變成台灣區後來會變成是台灣的名字然後後來會變成新北市這個名字這個整個協商的過程你順便報告給我就好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].start |
27355.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].end |
27383.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].text |
好 謝謝委員好 那再來我要請教一下那個李洋部長那個部長你是不是有說過運動防護眼對運動相當的一個重要不是只有受傷的時候然後是在整個一個訓練過程當中比賽過程他們都必須要參與所以這個了解運動員的一個身體健康還有就是一個恢復的狀況所以這個運動防護眼是最了解的是不是你說過 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].start |
27385.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].end |
27406.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].text |
對所以好那既然有說過那我現在要跟部長討論說目前這個運動防護員一個法例未接就停留在那個國民體議法的第10條是一個所選的一個行政命令它是叫做運動防護員那麼你是否來支持通過立法提升為運動防護師你同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].start |
27409.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].end |
27435.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].text |
跟委員您說明那這個部分確實有蠻多委員最近在提供這件事情那我們本部也是在探討運動防護員跟運動防護師這件事情因為現階段來講不管是過去的物理治療師到現在的這一個防護員希望有這個所謂的防護師這件事情我想這個牽扯的面向確實蠻大因為我們不希望有排他的我知道這個當然是牽扯很大我現在要問你的態度你同不同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].start |
27436.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].end |
27452.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].text |
防護員跟防護師會有一些不同就是把防護員提升到防護師這樣的一個經過國家考試這樣子你同不同意?官委員您報告這不是一個從沒有我現在先當然現在我先要以一個表態 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].start |
27452.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].end |
27480.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].text |
你覺得我們同是運動選手然後我們知道防護眼對選手對球隊都非常的重要那你對這樣的一個提升你有沒有這樣的同意的看法表態一下就好了委員我還是要跟您報告身為一個中央機關來講我們要盤點的事情非常多這不是一個表態或不表態的狀態而是我當然好現在那個李昂部長我看你是不敢表態啦但是我要跟你講就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].start |
27484.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].end |
27502.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].text |
這個111年的時候呢,在考險部在111年的時候就有做過這樣的一個調查,他同意而且你的黃啟黃次長,他也同意這個運動員的一個黃務員能夠提升到變成黃務師 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].start |
27510.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].end |
27529.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].text |
我在這裡也要跟那個里安部長還有我們院長表態因為我是支持但是這個必須要透過很多協調很多部會的協調這我知道所以呢但是呢我在這裡也要做一個表態說因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].start |
27531.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].end |
27553.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].text |
一個運動員要有很好的一個表現心理素質要非常好的同時呢這個運動防護師運動防護員他是不可或缺的一個選手的一個最大的一個幕後的一個英雄我相信李洋你剛剛有看李洋部長你有看到你的那個在拿到奧運金牌的時候呢已經也有表態過 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].start |
27554.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].end |
27577.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].text |
表態過了報告委員我很支持剛剛李部長在這裡的答覆非常的清楚他也認為說這個部長在這裡不是表態他是要表現工作做出來給大家看的所以不只是表態而已現在的運動防護員在現在我們重大的比賽當中政府跟球隊跟各個單項是非常非常的重視我們只要把這個重視一直拉高 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].start |
27577.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].end |
27587.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].text |
各種的照護對應中委員更重要就可以那院長因為台灣民眾黨在5月29號會召開一個我國運動傷害防護室的國家制度的一個公聽會那我們會邀請很多專家一起來集商來討論好謝謝蔡委員也謝謝卓院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].start |
27610.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].end |
27630.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].text |
報告院會本日排定質詢的委員均與質詢完畢謝謝左院長及相關部會首長列席答詢現做以下決定下次會議繼續進行教育及文化組織質詢另外5月5日星期二上午10點鐘繼續開會進行同意權之行使事項現在休息 |