| IVOD_ID |
17375 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17375 |
| 日期 |
2026-04-23 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-20-10 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
10 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2026-04-23T08:36:57+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-04-23T13:24:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
04:47:03 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/b41997f390c3528ee063c99885a10fc27f3131a64391cf64b1d480c4e0b4ea522b1b891200cbf9d75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-04-23T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請財政部莊部長翠雲、農業部陳部長駿季、衛生福利部石部長崇良、行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿就「馬鈴薯輸入之邊境管制、檢疫、查驗等機制如何保障國人食品安全，及後市場抽驗預算執行情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
二、審查中華民國115年度中央政府總預算案有關主計總處暨審計部、審計部臺北市審計處、審計部新北市審計處、審計部桃園市審計處、審計部臺中市審計處、審計部臺南市審計處、審計部高雄市審計處部分。（僅詢答）
三、審查中華民國115年度中央政府總預算案有關第27款直轄市及縣市政府第3項一般性補助款-財政部主管第1目財政部、第2目國庫署；第13項一般性補助款-其他第1至8目。災害準備金。第二預備金。（僅詢答）
【預算提案截止時間：4月23日（四）下午5時】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:36:57 - 13:24:00 |
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| transcript.pyannote[3876].end |
17217.74534375 |
| transcript.pyannote[3877].speaker |
SPEAKER_19 |
| transcript.pyannote[3877].start |
17217.74534375 |
| transcript.pyannote[3877].end |
17217.82971875 |
| transcript.pyannote[3878].speaker |
SPEAKER_19 |
| transcript.pyannote[3878].start |
17218.55534375 |
| transcript.pyannote[3878].end |
17218.65659375 |
| transcript.pyannote[3879].speaker |
SPEAKER_14 |
| transcript.pyannote[3879].start |
17218.65659375 |
| transcript.pyannote[3879].end |
17218.96034375 |
| transcript.pyannote[3880].speaker |
SPEAKER_19 |
| transcript.pyannote[3880].start |
17218.96034375 |
| transcript.pyannote[3880].end |
17219.07846875 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1390.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
1416.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
好謝謝我們今天議程比較多我們現在開始開會請議事人員宣讀今天的議程好我們報告我們今天委員會的出席人數請主任秘書報告今天委員會出席的人數報告委員會出席委員與主法定人數好謝謝我們現在開始開會請議事人員宣讀今天的議程 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1417.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1437.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
報告事項 邀請財政部莊部長翠雲、農業部陳部長俊記、衛生福利部石部長崇良、行政院主計總處陳主計長淑芝、舊馬鈴薯進口之邊境管制、檢疫、查驗等機制如何保障國人食品安全及後市場抽菸預算執行情形進行專題報告並備諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1440.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1453.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
討論事項1.審查中華民國115年度中央政府總預算案有關主計總署暨審計部、審計部台北市審計處、審計部新北市審計處、審計部桃園市審計處、審計部台中市審計處、審計部台南市審計處、審計部高雄市審計處部分僅詢答2. |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1467.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1488.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
審查中華民國一百一十五年度中央政府總預算案有關第二十七款直轄世襲縣市政府第三項一般性補助款財政部主管第一目財政部第二目國庫署第十三項一般性補助款其他第一至第八目災害準備金第二億備金僅選達宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1490.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1513.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
好 我們今天的議程安排第一 邀請財政部長莊翠雲部長 農業部長陳季俊衛福部石崇良部長 行政院主席總署陳淑芝總署長來包括馬鈴薯輸入之邊境管制 檢疫查驗等機制如何保障國人食品安全包括後續市場抽驗預算執行的情形進行專題報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1515.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1545.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
并被质询第二项是审查中华民国一百一十五年度中央政府总预算案有关组织总处即审计部审计部台北市审计处审计部新北市审计处还有审计部桃园市审计处审计部台中市的审计处审计部台南市审计处审计部高雄市的审计处部分请答询第三项是审查中华民国第一百一十五年度 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1545.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1546.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
我們等一下會有 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1573.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1595.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
好我們等一下會有六個單位進行預算報告包括內容等等第一位我待會請行政院理常務副秘書長進行預算內容的報告第二位我請財政部阮次長進行專題預算報告第三位我請農業部胡政次進行專題報告第四位我請衛福部莊市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1597.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1622.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
进行专题报告第五位请行政院主席总处陈主席长进行专题报告第六位请审计部陈审计长进行专题报告好现在我介绍一下我们在现场的出席的委员包括第一位吴秉瑞委员第二位严匡恒委员 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1625.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1647.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
好我現在介紹一下我們今天在現場的所有的行政院的同仁第一位我們行政院的常務副秘書長李國新歡迎您我們行政院的主席總署主席長陳淑姿主席長歡迎您我們包括主席總署的李祖密李君李祖密歡迎您 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1648.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1663.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
综合规划处的陈处长陈梅英陈处长欢迎您公务预算处的许永毅许处长欢迎您基金预算处的潘处长欢迎您谢谢会计局算处的林专委欢迎您 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1665.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1688.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我们综合统计处的蔡处长欢迎您谢谢我们国事普查处的潘处长欢迎您我们主计资讯处的吴处长欢迎您我们人事处的刘处长欢迎您我们秘书处的张嘉瑜主任欢迎您我们包括郑峰主任陈主任欢迎您 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1689.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1694.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
接下來請主計事的詹主任歡迎您今天在現場還有審計部的陳審計長陳瑞銘陳審計長歡迎您還有我們今天副審計長也在現場林副審計長歡迎您 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1705.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1734.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
还有我们审计部的主任秘书林主秘欢迎您谢谢我们第一厅的厅长周厅长欢迎您第二厅的陈厅长欢迎您第三厅的张厅长欢迎您第四厅的张国清张厅长欢迎您第五厅的陆冠胜陆厅长欢迎您第六厅的朱曼如朱厅长欢迎您副审室的主任黄主任黄美兰黄主任欢迎您 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1735.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
1742.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我们资讯处的温代理处长欢迎您我们总务处的肖处长欢迎您 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
1743.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
1772.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我们人事室的主任黄炳黄主任欢迎您我们会计室的黄雪玲黄主任欢迎您我们振丰市的黄继德黄主任欢迎您我们今天还要来包括我们教育农林审查处的叶处长欢迎您我们交通建设审查处的王处长欢迎您台北市审计处的洪处长欢迎您新北市的审计处的处长李处长欢迎您 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
1773.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
1796.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
桃园市审计处的张处长欢迎您台中市审计处的张处长张汉京张处长欢迎您我们台南市审计处的王处长欢迎您高雄市审计处的陈处长欢迎您金融市审计处的吴主任欢迎您宜兰县审计室的刘主任欢迎您 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
1797.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
1820.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
新竹县审计室的庄主任欢迎您新竹市审计室的郭主任欢迎您苗栗县审查室的杨主任欢迎您彰化县审计室的谢主任欢迎您南投县审计室的李主任欢迎您榆林县审计室的杨美冠杨主任欢迎您 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
1822.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
1822.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
還有嗎 還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
1852.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
1880.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
還有新門縣審計室的吳主任歡迎您我們財政部的政次阮政次歡迎您謝謝我們財政部底下推動促成司的張司長歡迎您我們今天國庫署陳署長歡迎您我們今天賦稅署的宋署長歡迎您我們關務署的彭署長歡迎您我們國有財產署的副署長郭副署長歡迎您 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
1882.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
1891.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我們財政資訊中心的副主任李副主任歡迎您我們今天還有邀請農業部的政務次長胡政次歡迎您謝謝我們動植物防疫檢疫署的署長杜署長歡迎您國際事務司檢任記政鍾記政歡迎您我們農糧署的副組長歡迎您 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
1910.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
1936.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
衛福部的長賜 莊仁祥 莊長賜歡迎您我們食藥署的副署長 蔡副署長歡迎您我們馬上進行預算內容的報告因為我們今天報告的內容跟質詢的內容比較多也拜託大家盡量簡短重要來做報告說明第一位先請行政院理常務副秘書長進行預算內容報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
1943.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
1961.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
主席 各位委員 女士先生今天應邀列席貴委員會並就1.5年度中央政府總預算案有關直轄市及縣市一般性補助款災害準備金及第二預備金等預算編列情形提出報告自感榮幸 請檢邀說明如下 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
1962.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
1983.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
財政收支發放法修正後 2015年度地方貨配中央統籌分配稅款達8841億元較2014年度大幅增加4165億元各四縣政府已有適足的財源支應其自治事項所以我們的補助事項勢必配合做合理的調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
1983.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2004.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
本院修正中央對持家室及縣市政府補助辦法 擬定一般性補助款補助範圍包括具經常性、普及性、基本建設或維運性質、財政均衡等四項15年度中央對持家室及縣市一般性補助款合共編列2500零億元與114年度相同 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2008.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2022.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那依照災害防救法第57條規定實施該法災害防救的經費由各級政府按鎖定應辦事項依法編列從91年度起我們每年都編列災害準備金20億或50億14年度為了及時因應災害緊急應變的需求均編列50億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2032.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2054.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
預算法第二十二條規定第二倍金在總預算中設定之其數額是財政狀況決定之經橫著第二倍金最近三年度實際動之情形一五年度編列第二倍金八十億元敬請各位委員鼎力支持使各項政務能順利推動謝謝並祝各位健康愉快 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2056.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2059.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
主席 各位委員先進 大家早安 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2080.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2099.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
今天貴委員會邀請相關部會就馬鈴薯輸入之邊境管制檢疫查驗等機制如何保障國人食品安全及後市長抽驗預算指引情形提出專題報告並審查中華民國一百一十五年度中央政府總預算案有關本部 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2100.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2129.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
補助地方政府辦理畜生案件 績效獎勵及撕裂煙品查緝刑警本部檢要報告之下第一個馬林署輸入的邊境管制機制部分進口人輸入生鮮或者是冷藏的馬林署除了要填具進口報單向海關申報之外也要向農業部房檢署辦理這個職務檢驗還有要向衛福部的食藥署申請這個食品檢驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2130.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2144.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
那海關查核進口貨物跟報單申報的貨名重量產製的國別是不是相符並且收到這個房檢署跟資料署 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2145.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2171.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
檢驗合格的通知資訊之後才可以辦理放行的作業或如果經過相關的主管機關檢疫不合格的話進口人就應該依照各該機關的通知辦理退運或消費海關在貨品放行的第二天都會將進口的資料傳送房檢署及食藥署供其執行境內後市場的管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2172.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2198.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
那有關這個補助地方政府辦理出餐案件績效獎勵部分為鼓勵地方政府辦理民間參與公共建設案件本部依照相關的規定115年度編列出餐獎勵金共計新台幣5億元那麼出餐案件的獎勵金包括簽約獎勵金跟考核獎勵金簽約的獎勵金依照前一年度簽約案件的民間投資金額核算並在預算額度內調整發放 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2202.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2224.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
考核獎勵金是依照地方政府前一年度促餐業務受考核成績按等地核發20到100萬元地方政府得運用該獎勵金辦理促餐案件的可行性評估先期規劃、耐震評估、招商作業、旅業管理及法律執行等事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2226.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2244.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
那第三個有關補助地方政府辦理失菸查緝情形那麼依照菸海防治法等規定菸菌徵收的金額0.95%要平均分配給中央跟地方查緝 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2246.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2271.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
把撕裂煙品來使用那至於輔助各地方政府經費的分配指標為平均分配佔20%人口及面積各佔12%查獲案件及數量各佔24%近三年經費平均執行率佔8%另外經過本部跟審計部所屬審計處是查核地方政府有未專款專用情勢的話那每案會扣減 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2273.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2293.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
總貨配數的百分之五115年度本部編列補助地方政府金額跟往年相當接近為一億兩千三百五十萬元那波供其執行查緝業務所需的經費如失焉的倉儲費用、檢驗銷毀設備費、教育訓練及通信費用等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2297.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2317.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
本部將持續透過辦理促餐及茶企業務考核督導地方政府落實促餐獎勵金及茶企經費的專款專用來鼓勵地方政府推動民間參與公共建設案件並提升茶企私菸的菸品效能以上簡報告 謝謝謝謝阮市長的報告跟說明第三位邀請農業部胡政次進行專題報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2340.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2343.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
趙偉還有各位委員大家好那 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2344.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2365.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
大院貴委員會全體委員會邀請本部就馬鈴薯輸入之邊境管制檢疫查驗等機制如何保障國人食品安全及後市場抽驗預算執行情形進行專案報告緊就馬鈴薯輸入之檢疫部分提出以下報告雙重把關 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2366.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2387.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
食安標準不變為強化輸入馬鈴薯之邊境管理本部與衛生福利部採取雙重把關之嚴謹立場以確保我國農業生產環境安全及國人健康農業部作為檢疫主管機關核心任務在於維護農業生產環境透過嚴謹 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2392.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2410.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
嚴格禁止花芽或帶病馬鈴薯輸入防篤其流或者是流作種植種源而導致病蟲害傳播同時衛生福利部負責食品安全與品質監測針對農藥殘留、重金屬殘留及含有 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2415.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2433.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
有害物質例如茄簡進行查驗藉由兩部會之專業分工與協同合作確保發芽腐爛及發霉的馬鈴薯不會進入國內市場維護食品安全品質標準不變第二點 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2434.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2451.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
美國加工用馬鈴薯檢疫條件重點說明,我國加工用馬鈴薯部分仰賴進口,主要進口需求月份為每年的7月到4年的1月,而且以美國為主要的進口來源國。 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2453.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2472.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
以供應國內需求針對115年2月6日公告實施之美國產加工用馬鈴薯輸入檢疫條件重點分數如下在美國輸出前的管理加工用馬鈴薯輸出前需取得美國檢疫單位出具的檢疫證明書並規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2474.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2491.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
加注證明該批馬鈴薯已經施用花芽抑制劑且僅供加工使用如果發現有花芽附帶土壤或者是有八種我們所關切的病蟲害就不可以輸入 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2492.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2511.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
那到達台灣的邊境我們進行了這個邊境抽驗輸入人必須向農業部黃檢署申請檢疫繳交美國檢疫證明書同時聲明該批馬鈴薯輸入之後是作為加工有 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2512.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2538.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
檢疫人員檢疫是否有附著土壤是否沒有病蟲害有沒有花芽的狀況才評定檢疫合格在這些做法事實上跟過去相同那衛生福利部食品藥物管理署就按照他的規定進行查驗如果檢疫人員發現有花芽就通知 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2540.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2565.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
衛生福利部食藥署進行切檢的檢測如果有超標就不會流入加工體系當我們檢出花芽花莓或者是腐爛的處理的時候我們怎麼樣來進行相關的流程事實上我們已經確認沒有切檢超標的馬鈴薯如果有花芽花莓或者腐爛的情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2565.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2585.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
就由農業部防檢署與衛生福利部食藥署共同合作要求業者整櫃推運、銷毀或者是將該批馬鈴薯封監後直接送到配合檢疫的指定區域在加工前在本部防檢署監督之下由業者 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2586.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2607.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
逐批、逐貴、逐科選別檢查將花芽、花莓或腐爛的馬鈴薯整顆棄置銷毀不會進入加工程序也不會流入市場那挑選過程仍然是邊境簡易的一環我們將持續依據國際規範與科學風險的評估原則審慎檢視 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2614.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2630.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
並滾動檢討相關防檢疫措施還有食品安全的相關措施兼顧貿易變節化並與衛生福利部密切合作透過輸出前管理邊境查驗到加工端這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2631.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2651.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
的管理層層把關確保進口馬鈴薯符合檢疫及食品安全規範維護國內的農業生產安全以及國人健康以上報告好謝謝農業部胡政次的報告跟說明接下來我請第四位衛福部莊長次進行專題報告謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2661.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2685.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
主席 各位委員先生 女士先生今天大院財政委員會召開全體委員會議本部呈邀列席報告深感榮幸資就馬鈴薯輸入之邊境管制檢疫查驗等機制如何保障國人食品安全及後市場抽驗預算執行進行提出專題報告 敬請各位委員不吝會與指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2686.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2699.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
衛生福利部負責食品衛生安全對於輸入馬鈴薯的食安管理規範及做法沒有放寬維持不變包含衛生標準輸入查驗流程以及對於違規產品的處置 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2702.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2725.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
輸入馬鈴薯由農業部及衛生福利部雙重把關農業部負責發芽等檢疫議題衛務部負責衛生安全加工用馬鈴薯在輸入台灣前應符合農業部的檢疫條件規範抵台後在邊境尚需通過檢疫及食品衛生安全查驗以及後市場抽驗之把關 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2727.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2749.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
馬鈴薯無論在任何階段都要符合衛生標準等食品安全規定我國針對馬鈴薯定有包括輪迴減在內200ppm的限量規範有腐爛發霉輪迴減超標等情形皆應予以整顆丟棄不得流入加工用途 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2749.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2759.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
在邊境管控環節,本部食品藥物管理署執行輸入查驗,依產品風險進行抽樣檢驗檢驗項目包含農藥殘留、重金屬及龍奎鹼等項目,經檢驗不符規定,要求產品退印或銷毀 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2771.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2785.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
對於經農業部檢疫發現有發芽問題的整批馬鈴薯將先由農業部監督業者剔除發芽整顆馬鈴薯再由衛生單位執行抽樣檢驗龍葵檢經檢驗不符合規定整批銷毀 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
2789.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
2807.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
本部以國人健康為最高原則將持續與跨部會密切合作於邊境查驗及後市場抽驗確認馬雲署符合相關規定共同把關本部陳大院各委員支持教育監督在此靜置現場並請各位委員繼續支持謝謝謝謝我們衛福部莊長次的報告跟說明接下來我請行政院主計總處陳主計長做專題跟預算內容的報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
2823.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
2834.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
主席 各位委員女士 今天的榮幸意邀列席貴委員會來報告以下僅就本總署114年度施政績效115年度施政計畫重點預算案編列情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
2839.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
2858.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
還有直轄市和縣市一般性補助災害準備金和第二預備金等科目預算便利請請提出報告第一個先就本總署114年施政績效部分稅基和會計部分以編制完成115年度中央政府總預算案和附屬單位預算中計表 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
2859.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
2874.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
於114年8月29送請大院來審議那第二個就是編制完成114年度中央政府總預算追加預算案中央政府單納失颱風及728豪雨災後復原重建特別預算案 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
2875.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
2896.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
也是在114年8月29审议通过三编制完成中央政府总运营国际情势强化经济社会及民生国安任性特别预算于114年10月17审议通过编制完成中央政府马发联马太安西厌涉无灾后重建特别预算案于114年12月2号 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
2898.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
2908.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
審議通過編制完成113年度中央政府總決算及附屬單位決算終極表及中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫替世祺特別決算在114年7月29日審議通過二統計業務部分本總署按時編佈物價和國民所得各項精涉的統計並不斷強化與國際接軌提升統計服務能量 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
2925.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
2937.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
令普查和抽樣調查業務部分分每年辦理一次的普查作業進程完成114年農林業普查試驗調查研擬115年工業及服務業普查規劃構想並持續按月辦理人力資源調查與受雇員工薪資調查及完成112年國戶統計報告及113年家庭收支調查報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
2949.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
2971.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
二本總署一百一十五年度施政計劃重點一稅基和會計部分持續強化中程計劃預算制度落實臨機預算精神配合當前政府施政重點和便一百一十六年度中央政府總預算案及附屬單位預算及中計表並加強特種基金財務控管提升會計決算和財務報導品質並協助機關強化內部控制監督作業二統計和普查 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
2977.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
2993.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
普查及抽樣調查業務部門將持續精進各項精涉統計辦理技術以及提升統計服務效能並依普查作業進程辦理每年一次的農林漁牧業普查實地訪查與工業服務業普查試驗調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
2995.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3005.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
各單位詳細重點請參閱報告內容那本種出115年度預算案編列情形稅入編列139萬3千元那稅出編列17億9千136萬4千元比 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3010.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3031.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
比114年度預算數增列3億5038萬元主要是增加每年辦理一次的每5年辦理一次的農林榆木葉普查正式查訪作業經費2億7696萬1千元以及辦理每5年一次的公安服務業普查第二次試驗調查作業經費2893千元詳細編列內容參閱14月至18月那至於直轄市 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3042.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3051.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
115年度直轄市和縣市一般性補助款按災害準備金第二預備金科目編類請請115年度編類直轄市和縣市一般性補助2501億元災害準備金50億元及第二預備金80億元檢要說明如下一般性補助款的一個直轄市和縣市一般性補助款 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3063.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3086.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
因為財政收支化分化修法以後地方貨幣中央統籌分配稅大增4165億元115年度達8841億元各市縣政府已有4組財源支應其自治事項為落實地方自治精神確保各市縣政府所獲增財源能夠妥善運用及使全體國民受到均等的照顧及補助事項施必助 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3089.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3110.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
配合做合理的一個調整配合調整的事項主要是包括中央對直轄市案限制補助辦法第二條一般性補助的補助範圍包括經常性普及性基本建設或違運性質財政均衡等事項115年度直轄市案限制一般性補助款分配情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3113.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3130.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
本總署也邀集中央各機關和各市縣市代表共同延伸確定有關各項補助經費的內容和用途說明如下經常性普及性基本設施和維運性質的專項補助1764億元那主要包括教育部主管813億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3133.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3155.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
辦理遏制未滿6歲的一個幼兒教育與照顧衛福部編列 主管編列337億元是未滿2歲嬰兒嬰幼兒的一個照顧交通部主管編列155億元是辦理TPAS行政院通勤月票執行計畫安生模圈道路交通系統建置的一個計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3157.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3180.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
以上各主管部會委員115年4月17黨團協商結論將由其所屬委員會審議社會福利經費406億元是補助各市縣政府低收入戶身心障礙老人婦女青少年等兒童的一個經費財政均衡補助及考核獎勵331億元主要是保障115年各市縣政府貨幣中央統籌分配稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3185.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3193.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
一般性補助款和計畫型補助款不低於114年度貨配合度在他的準備金部分現行中央政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3195.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3211.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
自九一十一年度每一年編列災害準備金二十億元或五十億元一百一十四年度考量台灣未處地震帶及受極端氣候影響各種災害規模頻傳規模逐漸擴大為即時因應災害及應變需求均編列五十億元第二預備金的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3219.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3228.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
以112年、113年、144年度為例分別申請94、83和99億元經行證人家控管實際核准動資分別73億和77億元均在手邊的第二預備金範圍內核准利是78、88、78所以中央中央企制 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3244.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3264.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
總預算自籌編至今通過執行已上去一年所以為因應年度進行中發生籌編預算時未予考量事項臨時正式按照客觀環境所以我們橫走計三年度實際動資請以115年度編列第二預備金80億元以上報告 敬請各位委員請指教及支持 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3267.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3268.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
主席 各位委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3284.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3309.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
僅檢要報告之下113年度中央政府總結算及附屬單位結算及總計表中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第四期特別結算本部以依憲法規定的期限完成審核各縣市政府年度總結算亦經各地方審計處事在法定期限內完成審核提出重要審核意見2456項 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3313.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3334.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
114年度的中央政府半年結算報告 本部已完成查核各主席政府半年結算 已經本部地方審計次數在法定期限內完成查核提出重要審核意見63項3 更新強化審計功能以60串新核心價值未來6年以諸位審計 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3336.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3346.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
永續審計、破壞熱性審計及共生善治等四大面向除夕、生化、監督、洞察前瞻的三大政府的審計功能專業發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3348.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3368.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
並處事以創新思維進進審計業務 四更細優化審核報告編報內容及諸性揭露除細深化重要施政議題查核專章並彙編行政機關優良實務案例推廣扣竄情形及優化總結算審核報告諸性揭露 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3369.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3386.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
導致多元的資訊科技推動數位審計發展 具體作為包括磁吸、客沖、數位審計模組及工具應用大數據分析與AI輔助審計 並推動公司部門集合單位專業交流與分享 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3387.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3393.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
及建立審計資料中心統整應用查核資料6.加強審計培力後職專業發展除去促進審計專業培訓鼓勵數位住址學習並擴展國際審計視野 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3402.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3430.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
七 更新推展公民參與 近三年度已完成專家諮詢計五百五十三次並發布一千七百九十五軸的重要審計資訊八 在審計綜合績效方面 審核一百一十三年度結算依法修正稅入收入結算增列十六億元減列十六億元依法修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3431.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3450.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
稅出支出結算 增率42億元減率54億元考核各機關之績下並報告監察案者66案提出重要建立改善意見341項認為有可能提升效能及增進公共利益提出建立意見1013項提出議警性意見232項 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3455.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3464.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
稽查財務上司維持報請監察案處理者上案移送司法機關偵辦者5案通知各機關查明處理者117案 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3467.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3487.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
一百一十四年度預算情形本部級首職一百一十四年度稅務預算兩百五十一萬元累計收收兩百八十六億元稅務預算十七億九千六百三十三萬元累計支付十七億九千四百四十二萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3488.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3517.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
二、一百一十五年度施政計畫重點包括一、六十監督履行財務課則強化洞察提升施政效能邁向前瞻斬惡趨勢脈動以及創新思維啟動審計革新三、一百一十五年度預算編列情形本部即所指一百五十年度稅數預算案共編列兩百三十二萬元稅數預算案共編列十八億餘元 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3519.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3534.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
治安各機關單列預算分數如下 省紀部單列預算編列14億元省紀部台北市省紀處單列預算編列8,250萬元新北市省紀處單列預算案編列7,552萬元桃園市省紀處單列預算編列6,671萬元台中市省紀處單列預算編列7,289萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3548.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3570.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
台南市審計處單位預算案編列7354萬餘元高雄市審計處單位預算案編列8981萬餘元以上為本部及所持115年度施政計畫重點及預算案主要說明敬請主席 各位委員 女士先生會議支持與指教謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3574.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3588.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
謝謝陳審計長的說明跟報告那接下來我們開始答詢我先做以下的宣告每位初期委員發言時間8分鐘必要時的延長2分鐘每位列席委員發言時間是4分鐘今天上午10點截止發言登記現在依登記的順序請登記第一位嚴寬恆委員進行質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3600.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3607.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
主席 各位歷史觀人大家早主席有請農業部胡次長好 請農業部胡政次先請我們那個主計總署的陳主計長陳主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3626.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3643.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
委員好主席長早先跟你討論民生方面的問題主義總署的主要工作是針對社會指標國民所得家庭收入調查及各項物價指數的進行統計但是我們今天要討論就是說這個數據本身如果無法反映真實 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3644.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3671.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
那政府的市政方向是否會產生偏差這個有很大的一個疑慮101年家戶可支配所得中位數佔平均數比例是87.45%但是到了113年已經降到84.55那這顯示家戶所得平均數的成長遠快於中位數所以所得分配不均的趨勢越來越明顯那主計總數對外發布的五等分位倍數從101年到113年 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3674.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3700.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
只增加了0.01倍那這個數據呈現幾乎是完全沒有變動無法解釋這個民眾對於說薪資分配不均身為壓力巨大的感受落差那是不是可以解讀說大眾所關心的這些分配問題已經無法單靠五等分配倍數來展現這是第一個問題第二個問題就是我們家庭收支調查的樣本數從103年以來長達11年都維持在 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3704.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3709.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
16528戶這11年以來全國總加戶數母體增加了超過97萬戶以桃園為例母體戶數這11年來增加了26.48%但是本數卻始終是1500戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3727.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3740.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
第十七期調查的可支配所得便利數介於1.6%到1.9%是民國84年以來各期最高的這就代表統計誤差正在擴大 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3743.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
3754.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
那民眾要知道如何對這份數據有信心那我們身為專業的統計單位嘛那什麼時候要開始著手校正有沒有要校正先問我們主計總署這兩個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
3758.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
3787.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
我們一般抽樣的一個案件數並不是重點啦而是說抽樣的一個那個有沒有精準就是那些樣本有沒有精準分層有沒有分層的好不清楚請你大聲一點好不好就是說我們抽樣的樣本數並不是說因為我們是整個22縣市全部去做抽樣嘛那大概如果個兒直轄市做差不多1500個樣本這樣子但是問題就是說你有時候增加樣本不見得說對它整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
3788.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
3811.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
有很大的一個那個所以本身我們目前一般像我們是抽出1.9嘛1.8那但是也都高於每日的一個抽出的樣本那所以這個部分就是看我們分層抽的一個準確度這個部分我們是會加強這個部分那你如果增加樣本數不見得能夠增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
3811.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
3837.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
那怎麼樣能夠增加準確性啊所以這個部分我們就會盡量來研究那我請我們這個處長跟您報告一下就是說怎樣來改善這個盡量簡短好不好 時間有限其實在做調查的時候那個樣本數不是很絕對的我們再抽得好的就好所以我們在分層這一部分我們做了很大的精進我們結合大數據的那個內政部那個國土資訊系統那個整個分層我們大概 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
3839.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
3855.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
所以目前的整個那個雖然是一萬六千多戶但是我們的那個整個便利係數有沒有控制大概那個千分就大概在那個百分之二以內所以這個部分是大概這個部分好再請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
3856.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
3885.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
收支調查是政府制定社會福利最低工資還有付稅調整的重要指標如果說系統性的偏差我們剛剛提到這個部分的話都將會失之毫厘失之毫厘就是差資千里所以在政策的制定如果因為這是偏差那可能就會導致後面整個整個一個系統性的一種不完整性一種敗壞那我再提到就是說像 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
3887.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
3906.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
我們看到這十五個執行率連續三年到四年未達八成的基金特別是國立空中大學還有國立文化機構作業基金還有課發基金這三者連續四年執行率甚至不到四成所以連續四年執行率不到四成這代表這些計畫從頭到尾都在亂編 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
3910.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
3935.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
你們有經費有編制但是呢這樣子的一個執行率那麼低那根據預設法第66條你們隨時可以派員赴各機關實地調查實際的一個情況那你們到底有沒有去調查有沒有善盡督導考核那各種這個基金他會計制度實施狀況的責任有沒有去督導跟考核啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
3935.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
3948.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
那如果有 為何執行率會這麼低那如果沒有那就是代表說主計總署執行現況完全脫節僅靠資本來管理上千億的特種基金預算來 總長 主委總 呃 總委長 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
3951.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
3977.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
我們大部分都有請同仁到各基金去做輔導啦如果像這些那剛剛談到的那個科學園區管理作為基金這個部分執行比較困難大部分主要是台中啦台中那個園區他擴建二期那個局長那個時間有限啦我想說預算不是提款金所以納稅的錢不能亂花我要求是不是一個月內提出改善報告好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
3977.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
3984.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
好 那個先請回主席 我們那個農業部次長來了嗎農業部正次來 有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
3997.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4022.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
來 副市長委員好我們從小這個小時候就被長輩或老師或者是家長告知說馬鈴薯這個發芽有毒不能吃如果發霉或是那些都不能吃有毒那但是只要說一袋馬鈴薯裡面有一顆兩顆我們基本上整袋就都丟掉了整袋就不敢用了但是現在我們政府告訴我們說只要剔除有問題的馬鈴薯 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4024.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4039.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
而且加工用的馬鈴薯這個龍許的那個那個所謂的龍奎鹼的一個毒素龍許只要放寬到200ppm那其實這個龍奎鹼是很毒的他不只是會破壞我們的細胞他甚至還有神經神經的神經毒素啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4039.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4064.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
所以輕則就是嘔吐腹瀉然後痙攣但是如果嚴重的他血液血壓下降發燒還有神經系統的病狀甚至於死亡所以說你怎麼有辦法確認說你發現這一顆丟掉其他的沒問題這第一個啦那第一個是辦法假設這些是流入的加工端啊流入加工端那到時候誰敢吃誰要負責啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4065.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4089.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
你們邊境防疫也好,農業部也好,衛福部也好,然後邊境防疫讓他進來,然後到了加工端那這樣子你要告訴國民說沒問題,沒問題拿掉了我們一年從美國進口五億顆啊,五億顆,那有多少人可以去抽檢?有多少人可以去檢查?有辦法五億顆都看過嗎?這我不相信啦,這我不相信,沒有人做到滴水不漏啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4090.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4107.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
還有外部說文宣上面說會進行市場沖運我們要等到他聯絡市場聯絡加工端變成食品之後再去沖運那這樣子到時候這些本來是美國業者要自行處理的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4108.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4136.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
現在跑到我們台灣之後然後由我們台灣政府要多自人力物力然後去抽撿然後我們的基友人員還有我們台灣的加工業者我們台灣的人民變成白老鼠變成有這個中毒的風險他本來是他們國內美國要自己處理的現在變成我們台灣要幫他處理所以我們台灣現在我們的農業部、衛福部還有我們這些部會所長好像是在替美國服務咧不是替我們台灣人服務咧 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4137.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4162.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
這部分我想時間有限啦我們台灣的食品安全不可以一退再退啦縱使要討好美國也不可以一退再退啦這部分那我想時間有限我就要求我們農業部這個部分跟我們惡業部要從實要怎麼樣能夠完全的檢測這五億顆的馬鈴薯要怎麼樣滴水不漏做到你們可不可以提出一個說法 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4163.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4185.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
在檢疫的部分,農業部是負責檢疫啦那剛才委員,你講到農奎檢,農奎檢那是衛福部,因為這個是食安的問題在檢疫的部分,我們是針對三樣啦一個就是說,你這個進來,你有沒有八種病蟲害第二個,有沒有帶土第三,你有沒有發芽,發芽有沒有超過0.5公分市長我知道,農業部有農業部的職責,衛福部有衛福部職責 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4187.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4188.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
我們要做到低水不漏 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4226.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4232.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
主席 麻煩請審計部陳審計長請主席講審計長委員好聲揚早齁我們外交部有捐助一個民主基金會啊那我捐助的章程的內容你了解嗎?了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4249.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4278.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
他是為了要主要的目的是因為中共在全世界打壓我們我們有邦交的國家不夠那所以為了要推廣這個外交的工作所以放在國會可以辦一些國會外交所以董事長是本院的院長對不對那他原來捐助成立的目的是為了要推廣民主跟自由這一次啊台灣中國國民黨的這個黨主席去中國訪問 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4280.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4306.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
他申請基金會補助申請基金會補助補助要給補助計畫他申請說明書上面說他是去中國推廣台灣民主自由的理念我看全程的新聞媒體從頭到尾沒有講到台灣沒有講到民主沒有講到自由 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4307.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4322.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
那這樣我想要請教說省進部的立場我們這個補助提一個書面文章所作所為都跟這個書面的表示不相干或是甚至做相反的工作這樣可以申請補助嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4325.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4346.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
這個基金會它有一些規定,如果你要申請補助或者足行都要依照基金會的相關規定來處理這一個部分,外交部是它的主管機關外交部在財團法人法裡面,外交部要負責查核 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4347.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4372.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
如果有問題外交部要給他一些相當的...是外交部查核不是台灣的這個民主基金會這個組織在查核因為他申請基金他申請480萬是向台灣民主基金會申請喔我現在要問你的就是說他申請的申請書的內容說要去中國推廣台灣的民主自由這個制度給中國了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4373.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4390.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
但是我看到整個媒體報導各種新聞完全都沒有這些內容啊我的意思是說 我就是要問你這個問題我的申請 如果有一個人的申請書跟他所作所為完全不相關甚至背道而馳 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4392.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4412.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
那這個事情基金會應該要怎麼處理基金會要根據他整個執行的狀況來先第一段他要審核他要審核完以後才來進行第二階段如果他同意或者是他不同意外交部是主管機關也要把關 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4415.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4437.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
第三段如果這個問題確有那個的時候我們也會督促外交部你要好好的來處理那這個案子啊報導或者去了解他還沒有辦理核銷作業我請教你假設他真的這樣核銷啦假設他這樣核銷因為現在準的單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4438.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4462.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
現在是本院的院長在當這個基金會的董事長啊那他裡面的董監事如果就給他過了假設啦我現在是假設性問題那你審計部最後能有什麼作為我們這一個案子如果他過了那外交部他再次主管機關依照財團法人法所以你意思是說外交部可以跟立法院的 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4463.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4477.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
當院長所主持的民主基金會跟他講說你這個使用的項目跟你的作為跟你事實上你的申請完全不符所以外交部可以跟他講說不可以發嗎這是他是主管機關所以外交部要用公文告訴立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4478.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4504.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
院長所主導的民主基金會不可以補助是這樣的意思嗎這一個是要看他的事實依照他的事實來認定他的事實經過外交部認定有一些瑕疵或者是有一些剛剛講的一些假設的問題那外交部要主管機關要基於他主管機關的監督立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4506.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4526.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
那外交部 我再問一個繼續假設性的問題外交部如果已經正式發文給民主基金會說這不符合目的結果民主基金會還是一定要補助 那會怎麼樣那你們本紀不能有什麼作為我們會依據外交部的一些發文或查核的結果來處理這些相關的賬戶問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4528.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4550.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
相關賬戶問題什麼問題他就是給他假設退一萬步講說真的給他的480萬然後外交部也根據你現在講的原則跟他審核說因為不符合這個目的那也不符合你的作為所以不應該給予補助可是民主基金會仍然要給他補助的時候你們審計部最後能做什麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4552.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4571.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
我們會進行 要外交部在督促外交部來做處理如果外交部會做適當的處理我們會給外交部相關的那外交部能做什麼樣適當的處理就是他主管機關主管機關問題是那個民主基金會他就覺得他比你大 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4572.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4591.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
我們在立法院 多少人講說我就是比你大啊我要給你要怎麼樣做壞事人不得到制裁 你要去制裁外交部我是因為是假設外交部已經正式跟你回答說這不符合規定你不可以補助 那台灣民主基金會仍然要補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4592.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4618.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
國家有國家的體制要依照國家的體制那我現在就是要問你國家的體制嘛你們審計部是不是要送監察院還是要移送這個檢調單位處理我是要問你這個啊我要是督促外交部外交部就替他的職責跟他講說這不合法了當然他外交部有不合法但是這個案子堅持在那裡我們審計部當然會去了解啊了解完了以後如果事實就如假設一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4619.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4646.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
那當然是說有的事我們就會送監察院啊我們就會因為這個如果有不法的我們送檢調啊這個是當然是我們手持部的職責啊中華民國的立法院現在加起來的多數黨立法院的多數黨簡直就是太上皇了你送監察院也沒用了他監察院預算都不給你過監察院的代理院長跟我講說他們很可憐連電梯都沒辦法開啊因為電費都被刪光了 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4650.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4676.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
親口跟我講的所以現在就是無法無天啦我現在跟你講我們大家講清楚外交部有他的職權他應該去查核那外交部如果已經據實以告跟他講說查核的規矩查核的結果不符合規定不應給予補助這所有兩種結果有一種就是民主基金會從善逐流嘛那我就不補助另外一種就是民主基金會說不我仍然在補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4678.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4688.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
因為我的董監事 我人多啊所以我的董監事仍然要補助那補助了之後你給他送監察院 沒關係啊 監察院等於是被他廢掉了 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4690.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4710.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
所以我來講 我們很美的啦台灣的國會現在就是 我就是比你大啦就是有人說 我就是比你大國家的體制什麼東西都不重要好 我是要讓你了解說你有可能會面對將來有可能會面對這樣的困境請你回座啦我不是對你回敬 我只是說我問的問題該怎麼處理 你要想清楚請回座來 我們請這個 關務署 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4720.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4749.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
親愛的官現在這個發芽馬鈴薯這個查核標準有沒有變動報告委員是指檢疫的部分檢疫的部分是農委會房間署不是啊你們不是要配合嗎那不然就請農委會跟這樣的衛福部都一起上來大家一起回答制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4750.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4753.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
在我們這一次改變的部分在簡易的部分我們是這樣子本來如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4767.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4794.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
因為馬鈴薯進口有三種一種是種薯進來做種那第二個就是鮮食用的第三個就是用加工用的那過去啊這個鮮食跟加工只要驗到有花芽超過0.5公分或者是有其他這個龍奎鹼超過200ppm在衛福部這邊查到這個的話 餘率退那目前鮮食的部分還是維持本來的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4795.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4821.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
那加工的部分如果我們發現在邊境外部發現200ppm以上這個馬上就必須要退那如果他的這個有帶土有8種病蟲害那另外就是他的花芽超過了0.5公分以上的話我們會要求這個推運或者是銷毀不能帶土也不能有病蟲害 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4822.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
4845.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
那這一次的改變就是以前整個都退運這一次是不是還要進一步檢驗加工的部分加工的部分對那這個加工的部分標準是不是跟日本的標準相同比日本還嚴因為日本只有驗兩種病蟲害不是啦我是在講那個發芽的部分發芽的部分日本沒有管他不管發芽的部分日本發芽的進口發芽的他也加工對 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
4846.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
4869.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
因為他們只要美國提出那請惠福不回答剛剛講到那個龍奎鹼在發芽的部分產生的這些的有可能產生的這些的有毒物質要怎麼處理這個部分就是其實那個馬來西亞有沒有發芽跟龍奎鹼的濃度也不一定相關所以我們現在就是說我們其實整個檢驗的標準整個實驗的標準全世界一直都沒有標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
4870.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
4897.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
一直都沒有改變那這個龍奎減200ppm是從107年就訂到現在全世界有沒有一致的標準目前大概加拿大這邊也有採用這樣的標準只有加拿大嗎還有對加拿大那日本有沒有日本不驗啦因為日本生產很多馬鈴薯所以是日本本身也在處理馬鈴薯這個東西國人關心就是有人會利用這個東西是天尼 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
4897.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
4919.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
要求再要求然後再製造台灣跟美國的緊張然後之後再拿這個東西打說政府無能沒有辦法保護人民的食品安全他們的目的是要講這個這是要做政治操作所以請你們要小心回答請你們一定要把這件事情向國人清楚地澄清好不好好 謝謝吳秉瑞委員執行接下來我們請第三位林德福委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
4934.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
4940.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
謝謝主席是不是請陳審計長還有財政部的阮次長還有農業部的胡次長還有衛福部的張次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
4959.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
4985.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
還有食藥署的蔡副署長委員好那個審計長你好因為我國花生進口辣椒粉含工業用的蘇丹酮素等食安的事件危害國人的健康引發民眾的恐慌那審計部有提出這個專案審計報告同樣的道理 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
4989.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5012.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
本期也希望審計部針對馬鈴薯食品安全的議題進行一個專案調查從農業部、衛福部、馬鈴薯加工廠所在地地方的衛生渠道到底投入多少的預算設備確保民眾食品的安全尤其是實驗室的檢驗能量是否足夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5013.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5042.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
本期是希望說審計部啊會後啊能夠給我們所有立委啊一份書面的報告可以這個很重要按照過去這個衛教宣導都在告訴民眾勿食用花芽的馬鈴薯然而近期馬鈴薯的爭議啊許多網紅分享不正確的信息告訴民眾切掉花芽部分的還是可以食用 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5044.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5066.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
現任食藥署江志剛署長在2018年在台大當醫師的時候寫了一篇文章看見綠頭的薯條怎麼辦內容提到花芽的馬鈴薯龍葵鹼含量則在1000ppm其中花芽的馬鈴薯這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5071.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5089.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
龍奎鹼含量更高達2000ppm可見專家都認為花芽馬鈴薯食安風險非常的高那我請問衛福部遇到花芽馬鈴薯建議民眾要如何處理衛福部有關花芽馬鈴薯一定是整顆丟棄不能使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5089.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5104.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
要丟棄嘛那媒體報導說林口長庚醫院臨床毒物中心的主任顏忠海指出即使僅有少數馬鈴薯出現化藥的情形其所含的龍葵鹼 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5105.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5124.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
能可能污染同批其他正常的馬鈴薯呼籲主管機關應要加強龍葵鹼的抽驗不管今天進口美國馬鈴薯是加工用的還是實用的最後都是到消費者的市場變成民眾吃下肚 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5124.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5142.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
你不管是加工也好其他進口也好幾乎都是下渡那為何使用馬鈴薯輸入簡易條件馬鈴薯花芽必須整批退運而加工的馬鈴薯花芽後卻換寬整批馬鈴薯有條件的進入加工廠處理你的看法勒 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5143.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5152.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
報告委員,現在的做法是這樣,如果是農業部在邊境發現有發芽的馬鈴薯,那他們會把這些發芽馬鈴薯剔掉,那我們會針對這批馬鈴薯,會再去做抽驗,這個有關龍葵檢 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5162.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5188.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
那當然如果驗出超過200ppm就會整批退運本席是希望農業部跟衛福部要以民眾食品安全作為優先所以本席也希望說加工馬鈴薯花芽應該整批退運你不能留存因為留存以後都會到消費者身上讓他們來承擔食安的風險你認不認同這個有關花芽部分可能是農業部這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5190.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5202.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
對不對 你們要說清楚講明白啊花芽不代表就有龍葵茧因為那個必須要在經過花芽不代表就有龍葵茧因為花芽在0.5公分以內的話那個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5205.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5231.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
都會被承認的日本人根本就不檢查有沒有懷疑你不要講日本我們今天是針對我們食安食安的風險因為你為什麼整批進口加工就可以來做處理不加工的話你就是只要有花學它確實有龍葵鹼有花芽就要整批退這個裡面就是考量到為什麼食安是多重要啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5232.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5241.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
對不對 不要把人民的那個健康來開玩笑沒有錯 我也是國民啦我的家人我的親友都是國民我們非常重視這一塊啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5242.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5263.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
那在農業部的部分我們是防疫主要是說防疫就怕這些流入的馬鈴薯它流到田裡面又去種種的時候把國外的病人菌把它帶進來這個是我們所擔心的至於食品安全的話這個要麻煩衛福部來做回應本席先跟財政部跟農業部確認啦美國加工用的馬鈴薯在海關的貨品號 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5265.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5273.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
列的號碼是不是07019000-003因為昨天我的助理有特別打電話去聯繫農業部的防檢署確認而農業部在4月15日衛防委員會書面報告裡面提到新檢疫條件2月6日 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5286.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5300.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
實施到現在為止上有美國加工用的馬鈴薯輸入但是本期請助理查了一下上述貨品號列的馬鈴薯今年3月從美國進口的馬鈴薯數量有137公噸 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5303.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5319.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
價值是221萬新台幣外界沒有辦法分辨哪些是加工用的馬鈴薯哪些是實用的馬鈴薯那我請問農業部跟財政部美國加工用與實用的馬鈴薯都在一個貨號如何來避免外界的誤判 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5320.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5334.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
是 報告委員到目前為止美國進來全部都是現實用的都是生鮮的 沒有加工的那第二個我們也發現這個貨號是相同所以已經跟財政部提出申請相信在最近的這個時間以內財政部就會給我們分開 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5336.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5357.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
那因為美國的這個加工用的這個馬鈴薯啊七月之後才會進口所以這一段期間我們應該財政部因為人民很關心這個事情因為根據媒體報導 衛福部對進口馬鈴薯目前才一般的抽批 查檢那抽驗率2%到10%而已那請 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5362.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5389.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
這個衛福部分別說明美國食用與加工用的馬鈴薯依規定抽檢龍奎檢含量超過200ppm時會如何處置不管是否食用或加工都是整批退運或銷毀嗎包委員就是如果我們一旦驗到這個龍奎檢超過200ppm我們整批退運也就是說它一批裡面可能有三個貨櫃這三個貨櫃就是退運或銷毀一定不能進入到我們的市場 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5390.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5413.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
因為人民非常重視就是這個食安的問題農業部房檢署邊境除批茶葉馬鈴薯打開貨櫃發現馬鈴薯花芽依現行的規定可封存然後運往加工廠若該批馬鈴薯食藥署沒有抽到茶葉 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5415.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5428.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
農業部是否會通知食藥署去補查驗該匹馬鈴薯的龍奎檢到底有沒有超標會不會 說不會因為如果龍奎檢超標那請問各主管機關你們要如何處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5432.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5443.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
就是我們會驗龍奎檢重金屬跟農藥殘留這三項只要超標就一定退運或銷毀我是希望說這個要嚴謹農業黃檢署打開貨櫃沒有發現馬鈴薯花芽但是藥署抽到要檢驗龍奎檢請問該批馬鈴薯是否需等化驗後出爐才能將整批貨櫃送往加工廠加工 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5459.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5483.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
對 一定是這樣 是 一定要等他的確沒有超過兩百多億因為現在的老百姓他們非常非常關心有關於馬鈴薯的融回錢因為這個跟很多民眾在吃馬鈴薯以後到底會不會產生食安的問題我認為這個是非常非常重要我希望各行政官員本著良心 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5484.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5511.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
自己吃才能讓一般的老百姓吃啦你不要說因為我檢驗的時候然後這個上面規定怎麼樣我要是去放寬然後到最後出問題那時候亡羊補勞都來不及了啦我們要事前去杜絕緩緩那這個最後一個議題關於中央政府永續發展政府的債券目前看來財政部 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5512.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5526.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
115年115第一期的公債金門大學這個校舍興建外發行金額為新台幣4億元年期為30年那我請問財政部115年是否還有其他計畫會發行永續發展的債券 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5531.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5545.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
我們除了金門大學的這個永續件的發行之外另外我們就是高雄的航空站那金額是790億那我們現在在福島他能夠發行永續債 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5547.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5576.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
那這部分我們會積極來推動目前除了中央之外我們也希望地方政府能夠加入來發行所以現在目前中央跟地方已經發行了大概345億所以未來我們會跟金管會還有櫃買中心我們合作尋找相關案員來發行相關的永續債好 這樣我了解其實剛剛前一位委員所講的有一些我都聽不下去 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5577.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5605.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
大家都很清楚 沈記長那個竹記長你上來我請教你你那個電會說電梯沒有電沒有電會可以支運可能嗎那是經常門啊你就是預算沒有過一樣可以發會啊那個都是在騙老百姓不是他如果沒有編預算就不能沒有編預算拜託電會沒有編預算你每年都編了沒有編預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5607.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5625.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
經常門欸那不是資本門欸對不對你組計長你做那麼久難道連這一點你都不懂嗎對不對因為他業務全部被減的百分之九十七啦九十七啦去年的時候經常門都可以用去年用的今年都可以用 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5626.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5646.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
對不對你就是預算沒有過也可以用大家心知肚明對不對不要騙老百姓經常門啦你的水電該用的本來經常門就可以用資本門我不敢講因為一般經常門主要是人事費和業務費為大宗啦那再來譬如說 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5648.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5675.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
電匯沒有嗎所以它可以流用的部分你這個電匯沒有嗎你大宗的被減掉很多債不要去扭曲啦電匯每年固定編的你喔身為主計長你一定要講實話讓老百姓清楚我們是針對問題不要去扭曲去騙我們沒有扭曲啦好不好謝謝好謝謝林德虎委員的質詢下一位請我們召委李燕秀委員質詢請 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5678.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5687.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
謝謝主席我可不可以邀請農業部胡政次以及衛福部莊次長以及相關食藥署的同仁一起上來謝謝委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5692.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5710.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
次長你好這一次有關美國馬鈴薯進口的爭議我剛才回應說我們很多規定都沒有調整但是檢疫署在今年2月6號對於檢疫的條件其實還是有做調整把它分成加工跟先時分流的管理這個管理是調整的對不對這個管理的調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5713.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5718.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
我個人認為真正的風險不是一顆丟掉或要不要挖掉的問題真正的風險是目前的整套配套措施能不能去撐得住這個調整的機制對於國人食安的風險到底是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5731.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5755.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
我就看到現在的防線設計關鍵字關鍵字就是指定加工廠我們現在有一道邊境管理第二道就是送到指定加工廠不合格的我們要整箱整顆的銷毀那合格的才能合法的輸入那我要請問我們現在境內關外的新規定指定加工廠的廠商有幾家我覺得是17家申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5759.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5767.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
有在進口有17家申請為國內的指定加工廠指定的地點有幾處?進口商有幾處?指定的地點有幾處?那有足夠的篩選機器嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5774.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5788.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
我們現在總處理量未來預估馬鈴薯的總進來的量到底有多少公噸有沒有辦法處理消化馬鈴薯進口約四成的量就是進口占比約四成的量有沒有辦法去做這樣的篩選機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5790.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
5815.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
報告委員是這樣子如果在邊境我們檢查到他如果你不要再重複之前講的話因為你現在增加了你新做的這個調整機制有分成進口跟加工跟鮮食有問題的我們送到第二關你第二關我的問題是你第二關沒有把關好我第一關邊境發生問題我的加工的那個篩選的地點沒把關好放了水 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
5817.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
5837.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
那吃到東西就是國人的健康問題你懂我的意思嗎我知道我邊境的同仁管得很辛苦看得很仔細你後面指定加工廠處所以我剛才為什麼這樣問你我問你說你到底有幾家廠商然後指定的地緣到底有幾處未來的總處理量可以有多少公噸要不然 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
5838.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
5861.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
進來這麼多我只有能力看那麼一點都塞在那邊或者沒有仔細看後面這是我們食安的問題這是我第一點要凸顯的問題房間署一再的強調邊境的檢查加上加工廠的篩選你們有雙重的機制但是這個監管機制是不是像我們現在檢查大蒜一樣大蒜我們看到有沒有跟土合在一起我們是用這樣的判定機制嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
5862.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
5890.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
目前我們是減一還是我們是不定期的你是每一顆都看還是說我們在不定期的抽查在邊境我們是如果申報來的話比如說有每一批每一批我們是抽減百分之六十以後會再增加嗎因為以後跟美國進口馬鈴薯量可能會再增加你會再增加抽減的計次量嗎這個百分之六十已經很高了 包委員因為一般都在百分之五 百分之十以內 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
5892.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
5912.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
所以所以你也不打算再調高就對了沒關係不是你的答案你認為60%已經很高我不知道國人滿不滿意我個人是不滿意的那我現在在問一直在講日本模式總理長一直在講日本模式日本模式對於相關的加工廠有明確的稽查機制也有罰則我們現在有沒有我們有啊已經有了嗎有啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
5914.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
5928.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
你相關的罰金包括廢職指定資格的門檻你現在都已經有完整的機制我們如果再同意就是同意一般是如果查驗到我們就退運啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
5930.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
5938.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
有沒有罰則機制如果他有漏檢查或者有什麼樣的弊端的話有3萬到15萬我們用植物防疫檢疫法裡面第17條第一項的規定是罰3萬到15萬來換國人的健康3萬到15萬國人可以接受這個是我提醒的點 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
5948.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
5975.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
我希望你們回去再思考一下胡次長我現在請衛福部的次長我現在要把焦點從看得見的發芽轉到看不見的化學殘留剛才大家一直在談龍奎檢但是事實上有另外一個問題房間署這一次的新規定有強調說要求美方在輸出前要在那個發芽要塗一個發芽抑制劑叫做克普芬要再塗一個發芽抑制劑 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
5975.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6004.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
克普芬是好東西嗎看起來它可以抑制馬鈴薯不要太快發芽但是塗了之後對身體克普芬從國際的評估標準我看到的它對於造成身體的內蜂蜜干擾還有輕人代謝致癌會有疑慮所以這件事情塗了這個事情抑制它發芽但是塗了之後對身體卻有傷害那我再回來看那個次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6005.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6021.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
克普芬我們現在在歐盟的標準是0.2ppm那我們現在是30ppm對不對我沒有講錯嗎這個標準我沒有講錯嗎歐盟對於克普芬的殘留是0.2ppm |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6028.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6032.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
不過其他各國都是30,其他各國都是30沒關係,我講的標準沒有錯,我沒有亂講嘛我們台灣,歐盟對於克普芬的殘留容許值是0.2ppm我們台灣目前容許殘留值是30ppm好,除了一個輪迴檢之外我們現在要求美方競選馬鈴薯,亞圖 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6051.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6059.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
克普芬這個東西但是我們卻高於歐盟的這個標準是150倍這個150倍對我們身體的傷害是造成內分泌的影響還有包括致癌的影響這個我覺得是你們要去思考的那我現在再請問就是說包括克普芬還有包括克普芬產生的代謝物三粒本胺克普芬因為會產生三粒本胺我們未來 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6077.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6089.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
有沒有抽檢的比例除了大家說看到這個發芽的部分其實看不到的是另外一個對我們身體的隱憂這是我擔心的那我們到底有沒有抽檢的數據跟抽檢率有沒有設定這個標準有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6090.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6119.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
有 這個都有那包委員 這個其實都107年定下來的那跟其他 雖然歐盟是0.2但是美國整個都是30因為我擔心我們現在大量進口美國的馬鈴薯因為台美貿易的關係我也不反對但是國安的需要我是要把關的不管你是什麼時候定我覺得國安不能夠忍受現在我們對於科普分包括三立本案的殘留值超過歐盟的150倍這是我要提醒你的地方是跟其他國家都是30% |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6119.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6136.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
不要各位講這是跟美國Codex一樣但是對歐盟卻高於150倍我相信對國人來說食安過去蔡政府是五個洞現在在內政府變成七個洞十個洞我相信是國人不能夠接受的大家國人對於喜歡吃薯條吃馬鈴薯片 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6139.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6164.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
因為大家都特別是年輕人很喜歡吃這個對身體是長遠的影響這也是我在那監督的立場署長我要提醒的地方你們回去思考我認為國人不能接受你們要開放這些東西對於殘留值的標準要再嚴格把關比照澳門的標準是我要提醒的地方我的時間到我先接下來請主記長你們先請回主記長我最近我還是要關心一下不是主記長對不起沈記長 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6169.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6183.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
最近台灣有幾個重大的公共工程的爆發的事件我在媒體上有看到包括第一件是移民署的防彈背心採購案第二個是我們包括月初我在媒體上看到的是七街碼頭城鄉工程案 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6187.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6203.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
這些廉政署現在已經接獲已經介入調查包括在媒體看到的相關的一些事件我們審計處也會不會也介入調查也會不會去進一步做了解會因為剛剛講的那個黃蛋背心是我們審計部查出來的好 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6204.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6228.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
主席講 這個第一個案子是因為採購的偽劣品蒙混這是一個重大的工程的一個弊端那另外一個是重大工程異地失作看起來好像圖利 包括工程延宕這共同的問題都是履約審查跟監督的機制失靈了就是在工程還在進行當中我不希望每一次都是審計處在事後我們才發現問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6230.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6251.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
在執行契約的過程當中我們如果能夠發現問題當然是更好所以目前包括我們七階的工程我剛剛指的第二項是255億的工程港澳公司表示施工的計畫包括建造審定包括變更施作的地點會不會影響招標的條件跟公正性 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6252.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6273.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
不是港務公司說了算 我要提醒就是說我覺得包括防彈背心案也是就是說都是事後我們才發現問題所以我覺得我們勢必要再更有想辦法或用不同的一些工具 輔助工具或者用不同的機制去對於正在進行招標的相關的案子不定時的去做更多的抽查 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6274.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6284.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
通而來說對於採購的一些項目包括重大工程我覺得有沒有涉及契約條件實質的變更內容我覺得我們也應該要有更多的一些啟動的專案調查機制列入我們平常在重點審查的項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6295.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6299.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
這個齊結總經費高達950億所以不容讓他這每塊錢都是民脂民膏我們不要事後才發現事後才發現罰款不是我們的目的 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6314.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6328.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
那我另外一個主席講 我要提醒我們最後的記者給我最後一張圖我們現在機關的改善每一年我看到說有七成好像改善但是還有三成仍待改善我覺得這個三成的部分25%仍待改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6330.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6359.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
所以我覺得怎麼樣有更多的工具跟牙齒讓我們審計處對於各單位待改善的項目比例應該逐年降低想辦法了不然我給你人對不對我們去年我們多給你一個副主計長又給你人地方也增加人我都希望我們的審計單位可以發揮得更好包括我們電腦輔助相關科技AI輔助工具可以做更多的查核這些比例 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6359.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6374.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
我希望都可以降低可以抓出來然後改善我們現在各單位在執行的相關的業務跟招標的項目可不可以我們都會這一種沒有改善的我們都會追蹤再來啊這些沒改善的大部分都 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6375.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6377.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
通知相關單位像這一種的會一直堅持不改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6391.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6409.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
有問題的不改善就給他明年預算就給他少一點啊對不對多的錢沒有給其他表現好的單位啊不然誰被審計到有問題的不改善預算來照樣給他這審計處再跟不再沒有意義嘛對不對主席想點頭了我們明年我會繼續追好不好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6418.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6443.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
接下來請賴世保委員質詢謝謝主席以及各位先進有請我們農業部的次長胡政次請胡次長衛福部的莊廠次財政部的阮次長三位長官一起 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6448.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6470.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
委員好我要請教農業部還有衛福部長官這個很簡單的就是一個問題就是行政院長說進口的馬鈴薯要竹科檢驗做得到做不到這個在加工廠裡面或者在配合檢疫的指定加工廠裡面事實上是可以做得到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6471.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6493.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
邊境 邊境進來邊境的話我們沒有百分之百邊境做不到啦 那個那個衛務部呢 來莊次長做得到嗎依照規定我們是抽驗 就是驗百分之二 百分之四如果不合格全部退是不是對 或者消毀是不是對 退運或消毀來 莊次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6496.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6521.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
請問你海關邊境進來的有多少人海關多少人可以檢驗馬鈴薯的多少人人數是吧我們沒有專門為這個設定一個專門的團隊我只知道八十幾個人你們做得到嗎儲物科這樣檢驗做得到嗎全部我們加起來就是在運用人力大概一百多人是啊這個你知道進來有幾個來 農業部的長官來來來 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6526.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6533.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
我們進來一批多少幾顆啊幾顆最近進來不是一批現在一年的話是兩萬七千噸啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6534.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6539.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
幾顆啦幾顆一顆大概300公克所以一櫃的話25公噸進口的量喔一萬噸的話是3333萬顆2300多萬顆2.7萬噸的話將近一億顆一億顆不只一顆喔算起來快五億顆喔一億啦大概一億一億顆 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6560.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6582.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
他可能每次去選 我做不到啦不是 院長的意思是在加工廠裡面是逐批 逐櫃 逐科啦那個是在加工廠裡面我們做我講的是因為他給人家感覺是邊境管理啦邊境的話我們如果驗到不行就整櫃就退了所以這個就很明顯的他這個東西不讓腦子發熱啦說可以逐科去檢驗啦逐科去驗嘛 然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6587.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6615.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
可以的壞的就把它退掉哪裡有這樣子 這整逼退啦對啊 現在就是這樣子啊要整逼退啦 整逼退啦使人民的食安遠高於沒有任何的政治利益可以來交換啦這個請我們兩位長官要把守這個齁這個某種程度等於農業部跟衛福部打臉行政院的院長的講法啦好 兩位請回喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6616.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6639.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
我請教財政部的次長 阮次長委員好現在因為中東戰火 每天一天數電到底是要停火不停火 要停止封鎖不停止封鎖不知道變化太大了所以就有人想到說今年的報稅能不能夠延後一個月報稅可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6640.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6663.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
跟委員報告我們去年是因為美國宣布我們有一個對等關稅32%所以那時候為了考慮到民間的需求所以我們是有展延一個月但是今年到目前為止我們現在股市已經上了三萬七了所以整個來講股市上非常穩健所以目前是沒有這樣的規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6668.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6691.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
沒有這樣規劃 去想一下喔 過兩天你可能就重溫了喔總之請你來問的話 院長一答應你就乖乖答應喔這你們應該想的喔來來來 問問你啦 你是管這個國庫的財政部這次取得國票的經營權 老實講這是一個全世界都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6692.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6702.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
工轉民啦 沒有民轉工啦這是開世界潮流的倒車啦齁只有一個 也變成第九家的光谷航空喔是吧對嗎 委員的意思是 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6707.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6726.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
第九家的公股黃金黃金現在八家范公股現在第九家你回答是不是嘛 第九家嘛目前當然 因為還沒改選完嘛改選完就變第九家嘛改選完以後要看改選出來以後的結果他想要這麼小的一個size這麼小的一個國票金 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6727.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6752.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
你為什麼要併他只有一個原因我再猜了只有一個理由嘛也要推動公共併嘛結果以後他要併到我的公共銀行裡面因為現在民間銀行的金空越來越大越來越大我也要有競爭力所以我想辦法我也提升我的公共販公共的競爭力才有道理不然的話我實在想不出道理為什麼要推這個東西啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6753.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6773.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
其實跟委員報告 其實最主要是國票清 那麼這個二十幾年來內鬥不斷內鬥跟你有關的 你這件事跟你有關的公股的 潘公股一直都在裡面 可是呢一直沒有辦法解決這方面的問題內鬥就多了喔 內鬥就多了喔 何止這都有 你就介入 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6778.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6800.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
沒有講真話 市長 你在這裡沒有講真話整頓國家金融的程序啦好偉大 你怎麼可以這個長臂拐斜的拐到民間這個全世界自從蘇聯解體以後 全世界就一股公變成民的熱潮 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6802.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
6813.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
全世界都是名誉...宮古的、韓國的變成名誉化比較多而不是像現在是開倒車所以只有一個原因啦我猜啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
6814.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
6833.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
你準備要推動 進一步的推動公共病目前是沒有這樣的規劃我現在跟委員報告我們現在會介入這個案子因為老實講 國票監控是我們現在所有監控裡面最少的我們要介入其實主要就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
6840.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
6857.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
市長啊 你今天人蠻力 你今天都言不由衷啦我這個沒有時間問你了 現在真的好好的問你這一題啊今天叫言不由衷 滿口胡話啦好 請你回答我們請一下陳主席長喔謝謝請一下陳主席長跟沈記長一起沈記長 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
6862.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
6867.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
2031年人均GDP高出日本韓國一萬塊我們的主計總數平均薪資四萬八 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
6883.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
6906.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
請問主席長平均是四萬八六成以上的領不到平均薪資啦現在景氣是都集中在AI概念股你知不知道如果今天我們股票說剛才講了財政部長說一直漲很熱三萬七、三萬八如果把台積電抽掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
6907.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
6922.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
有人給他算一算啦如果把台積電今天沒有台積電我們大概就兩萬億我們就兩萬一千點我們就兩萬一千點所以這是暴力的台灣非常嚴重的經濟荷蘭病 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
6923.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
6950.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
我查了我們現在今年1月到3月上市股票漲幅大於高盤大盤的211家11%左右上櫃116家8.33左右上市櫃公司總共有1933家換言之現在台灣老百姓是只要你的資金都沒有去買股票的話你就相對吃貧富了 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
6952.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
6973.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
如果你要不要買到AI概念股 那你也一樣就變這個樣子 就變這個樣子所以我們是嚴重的扭曲 哇好看 非常好看這個叫什麼 賺的指數賠了股價 不賺錢主計長 我們再看下一張 我再給主計長看一下有沒有機構發布 樹民經濟信心 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
6979.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
6984.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
警戒掌網下滑 消費醫院下滑 股市投資下滑37%認為今年的GDP 超過7%因為你講7點 主計長說過7點多吧超過7%的37%60%認為CPI要超過2%這個數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
6999.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7015.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
是老百姓普遍人心聲不到四成的人認同你的講法說我們今年GDP會高於7%即便高於7%也都是AI概念股台積電如果抽掉只剩2萬億你有沒有回應一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7017.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7043.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
對就是AI概念AI的部分的確佔重要的部分但是其他它也帶動其他沒有啊我的沒有啊對所以它譬如說它上游的原料啊那擴充產能廠房增添設備沒有啊帶動建材還有金屬這些的一個成長所以它不是只有AI概念回到上一章你就可以看嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7045.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7054.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
你這個大盤,這大盤就是台積電撐起來的嘛大一大盤的只有11%嘛上櫃的大一大盤的只有8.38%就很明顯加起來不到兩成啊那我要上升喔,我們沒有所謂荷蘭病啦因為荷蘭病它只是集中一個產業但是我們其實相對的產業其他其他傳統產業也有上升只是它上升的幅度沒有RI的一個那麼大 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7072.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7088.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
所以這個部分我們也要看你去查看我都跟你講數字啦好啦 主席給我十幾個信你請回吧好 謝謝來 沈縣長最後一個問題 沈縣長你有糾正過我要替台北市政府降花回來吹的水庫長期被台電壓榨它回吹水庫過去四年一度店賣給台電1.5到2塊錢左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7097.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7122.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
光電4塊到5塊 風電有時候高達7塊錢一年它賣了2億度電了所以等於我們一年來講的話台北市政府就被台電坑了4億啦檢察院糾正過你們糾正說收購匯率偏低現在還偏低 全部檢察院對這個事情怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7123.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7128.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
因為這個是綠電喔因為它水利發電是綠電綠電光電4到5塊風電有時候高達7塊5到7塊但是為什麼翡翠水庫就給它收1塊半到2塊錢而已過去4年 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7138.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7147.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
這一個部分是我們審計部去查的有這樣的一個現象後來監察院在看我們的審計報告的時候會把這個問題再調查一次所以他們提出糾正這個我們會繼續追蹤 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7164.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7184.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
我們會追蹤怎麼樣是一個合理處理的方案把一個事情 把他合理就是台電加價嘛對不對這個是我們同仁努力的最後一個 現在什麼高德地圖啊在台灣很好用的就是一個APP |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7186.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7206.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
裡面就是放這個讓紅綠燈描述很準的結果說這個可能有治安的問題可能要什麼 一個非紅供應鏈我就問你 請問非紅供應鏈是不是在神蹟部的神蹟範圍裡面要查所有的零組件通通不可以沾到大陸一點點 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7207.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7232.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
這一個部分我們要看國家的規定國家的規定如果都是說不可以為什麼會規定不可以是不是合理我們也會進行了解所以這一個部分就是我們審計在做的每次審計不容易做到一個舉例我們要發展無人機無人機全世界最大戰略力是大中國大陸 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7233.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7252.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
百分之七十關鍵民主建也來自於中國大陸所以你阿拉伯阿拉伯你看剛才講高的地圖這個我們不是跟大陸買的啊是跟荷蘭買的啊可是呢它什麼樣它裡面有一點東西是大陸的啊就變成這樣沒來沒去都會遇到 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7254.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7279.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
所以這個規定啊 它任何的規定啊我們會注意到它規定的一個造成是不是普遍的不適合我們會提出我們軍人穿的衣服 對所以我們也在查你的投標稀珠是怎麼規定的去好好去落實 如果做不到也要讓行政部門知道這個其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7280.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7289.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
不容易做到啦好 我們謝謝 後續的再請用書面回覆喔好 接下來我請第六位 林黛華委員 質詢好 有請主記長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7305.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7317.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
好 本席要針對這個國營事業特別是台水來就教我們主計長我認為在台電糖水 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7318.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7341.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
台電中油它的財務好嗎不好那你們怎麼救呢那你們無非第一個就是我們專案特別預算那第二個我們這個年度的稅收超徵你全額的撥補那現在願意讓中油跟台電差別匯率 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7342.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7361.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
中油它可以有浮動油價台電它也可以有離風跟尖風的一個差別電價台水有沒有針對高耗水高用水的用戶給予它較高的匯率的工具沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7371.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7397.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
北水有 台水就沒有台水你們有啦在王部長任內有開一個叫做耗水費誰收啊 水利署收去充實他的水資的作業基金所以台水還是沒有所以他既然不能你要求他開源那節流他完全都沒有辦法有任何的開源的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7398.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7417.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
那節流呢他只有負債好所以我們來看你們現在呢又需要這講到了電網韌性幾次的颱風水也太重要了所以呢也發起了這個水韌性所以呢積極的這個降漏八年八百億八年八百零八億的降漏計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7418.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7429.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
本席就用這個公共計畫來看台水長年負擔公共建設當中所造成的財務黑洞好我們來看台水面臨結構性的夾殺 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7431.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7445.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
它雙重的重壓國營私業就是台水配合國家政策跟自身財務永續之間的遭受劇烈的矛盾既要配合政策要建構水韌性的社會安全網要減碳這樣的一個國家級國際級的這樣的一個目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7450.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7463.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
那呢但是他面對公共工程當中他的這個通膨包括現在從此今年開始我們的漏水工程以及進入到深水區什麼意思?簡單的工程都做完了現在就那個比較困難的地質呢非常的這個崎嶇入段崎嶇地質非常的 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7473.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7475.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
所以在雙重壓力之下出口又封死他 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7489.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7513.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
水價長達30年未調整的僵局聽好本席不是支持漲水價我身為國會議員身為民意代表這個是政治議題就民生的角度就工業的跟民生農業用水的角度包括工業用水的角度我都在這個應該要考慮相關的因素我不是鼓勵漲水價但 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7515.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7534.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
至少本席倡議的這個高耗水的企業台積電你要不要課啊課啊你知道你現在給他的耗水只佔他如果你課徵他的比照北水的耗水率那個幾乎佔了他百分之一啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7535.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7551.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
整個成本感覺好像幾百億在他整個營收幾兆的那個幾乎是幾百分之幾的成本你不讓台水去渴出口又封死他所以現在808億的公共預算降漏 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7552.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7574.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
那其中634億的固定資產成本是誰在乎?台水在乎喪失自我修復的財務彈性所以呢本席要點出的是台水的財務破動並非源於管理不善而是被政策物價雙向的擠壓而剝奪了他定價權的必然結果好我看主計總處啊您到底呢是這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7577.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7581.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
這個裝睡的人呢覺不醒了你是沒看到這樣的預算幻象嗎你們給他的808億給他20億的增資4年80億每年20億的增資喔好那我們看喔114年去年這個審計部給他的決算虧損這個49.7億 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7598.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7607.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
今年行政院預算稅前虧損竟然行政院自己說你預估會虧多少錢今年會虧69.15億喔擴大政府核定的降漏計畫增資每年給他20億這誰都看得懂啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7615.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7621.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
你今年預計他會虧69.15億你今年八十億分四年要求他增資只給他20億會虧69.5億你只給他20億那又不給他出口讓他針對高用水用戶去收也沒有你們也不給他財務預算專案的預算的年度預算給他也不給然後呢這個超收的稅收也不全額撥補好那這個增資啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7645.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7649.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
這個還是有貓膩的什麼貓膩在裡面這個針織啊 台水區負擔什麼責救跟攤體啊所以你們給支持他去做漏水工程你們都給的不爽快啊好 那核心是什麼本席要問了 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7661.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7685.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
四年總計八十億的增資 這是你們給他的喔連這個彌補單年度的虧損都遠遠不夠 更遑論支撐未來高達八百零八億的降漏計畫這是在推動建設 還是看著國營事業慢性破產什麼叫做慢性破產 除了八零八億他一定做越多虧對過之外 他現在負債多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7686.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7703.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
一千億啊這一千億怎麼來都是這樣來的都是推動公共建設而來難道是董事長總經理跟所有的主管把錢吃掉了嗎他們經營不善嗎沒有耶這現在背負的一千億跟銀行借錢來辦這個降漏 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7706.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7725.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
從全部都借錢欸好我說你們還是沒看到這個假性資產的投資說好了8084投資這個一般商業的基礎回收的回收期是10到15年那其實這個8081就商業的角度它的內部報酬率是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
7726.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
7746.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
負2.7耶 表示說絕對料 做多少料多少然後回收好啦 勉強啦 我們一定要給他算回收啦因為他有很大的這個社會外部效益啊給他算到外部會社效益之後 他也等42年回收耶我本來一般就10到15年就回收了 因為你說要他自負盈虧啊結果勉強的把社會公益心算進去 也要42年啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
7752.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
7779.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
這個社會公益性 強化社會的水潤性我們減碳這不就是典型的公共建設的性質嗎當然要由國家專案預算全額支出而非迫使國營失業來負擔然後來看審計部這個審計部也非常的有趣 審計長您就看一下 等一下你再來回應你們說先看到第六頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
7779.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
7785.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
你們很有趣喔你們這個台水把你們的審計部的意見跟我們立法院報告好啦這邊是112年的報告以嚴謀或依改善措施持續辦理的你們羅列的五項112年其中的第四項說台水你有問題會配合國家經濟建設及永續發展每年投入巨額資金辦理重大興建計畫為部分計畫工程進度落後及 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
7809.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
7832.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
完成後經濟效益未達預期目標允宜研謀善策哇 這個請神仙來我都不曉得哪一位神仙能夠解決台水的這個負擔完全不給他出入這個也不給他後備的資源只叫他你做你就賠吧那你叫他怎麼研擬啊好 那我們就以808億來看剛才那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
7837.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
7866.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
對你投入倍增這句808億喔你是這個施工工成本是標準的喔過去台灣一公里的管線我只要700萬今天因為勞力成本通膨包括你經過的路段已經進入了這個降漏水的工程的深水區所以你現在暴增你一公里的管線成本是1000萬增幅40%工程效益的銳減因為降漏困難度的越來越高現在每公里找回的漏水量 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
7866.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
7882.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
大幅減少了百分之五十也就是說省計部啊你看到了說這種投入倍增效益減半的投資模式但是呢為了公共利益的強行推進讓國營事業獨自承攬暴增的單價跟地檢的 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
7886.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
7900.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
效益將直接託還其財務健康那我不知道您的審計的報告有意義嗎言再把這句話我覺得講得真好言謀善策你的善策誰能夠提供啊好再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
7902.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
7912.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
我們這個政治口號 我說我們要政策目標 808 把它開了可以達到什麼目標一百二十年時我的漏水率要降到10%然後這個微幅的降幅從113年的11.99%要經過8年之後降2.22%的漏水率巨大的代價是台水必須8年內燒掉808億再加上它現在1000億的負債 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
7929.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
7947.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
這種比例原則 私人投入808億 僅收取了百分之二零二億的漲幅這不是違背了比例原則政府還為了達成政治口號 而不惜犧牲國營事業的存續嗎好 但是我要講 本席是支持808億的 你不要以為我不支持因為這808億啊 接下來的二零 好 謝謝 謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
7952.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
7955.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
這2.22億換算的結果是每年省5910萬噸每年省5910萬噸的水我要不要做 要做啊它相當於曾文水庫的11%到12%的有效容量 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
7968.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
7995.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
它相當於家庭用水如果一個家庭的平均用水一噸是1000公升的話這樣子的每年的這個省水率5910噸的這個每年的省水可以讓16萬個家庭不間斷的使用整整一整年好來看台北市淹沒城市這樣每年省下來的5910萬噸的水如果鋪在台北市的話可以淹沒全台北約21.8公分 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
7997.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8018.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
好 那要不要做 當然要做成本與效益的措置的舉證 誰獲利誰買單本席再整理一下 台水公司跟中央政府跟社會大眾財務的負債台水是承擔了808億的巨額負債 跟其中的631億的固定資本中央政府是預算赤字 成功隱藏 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8019.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8036.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
本來這80814你要你的負債的你把它叫台水收了你成功你國家預算赤字成功的隱藏零負擔你社會的效益台水是沒有現金流回報剛才我講很清楚了但是中央政府跟全民享有抗抗的韌性跟減碳紅利 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8038.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8041.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
投資效益他承受了-2027的虧損型的專案42年無法回本中央政府跟社會是無需承擔任何的投資風險政治紅利是什麼台水你這個虧損啊這個經營不善啊結果政府他明早達到的是120年的漏水率的降至10% |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8058.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8069.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
這一頁台水的不可能三角我再次的凸顯了營收成本的天花板跟資本支出的失控跟政治強制的綁架最後來我要求社會任性不應該由國營事業獨自舉債對主計總書跟審計部的最後我本席的結論台水的縮帖講得很清楚了 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8082.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8090.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
這一筆八年八百億要符合你中央政府的降水率降到百分之十去在台水說啦我這個投資無法回收的我邊際消費是會遞減的我虧損會持續擴大的好台灣是一個降水豐沛卻是會缺水的國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8106.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8124.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
為什麼台電的強化電網韌性你政府可以編預算十年五千六百四十五億去支持他的電網我們人民不用你憑什麼用水韌性的成本百分百讓台水獨自的來收買單這個主計程車只要你一句話 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8126.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8150.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
計劃該做 全民受益政府買單 如果降落是國家級的氣候防禦工程的話那就應該要讓中央專案預算全部支持提止台湾的潛水 主席長你認不認同 用中央專案預算支持台水808的預算用中央專案預算去解決他1000億的 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8153.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8174.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
好後續請用書面回覆林委員因為已經超過五分鐘要不要演繹那個你用書面回覆我們用書面回覆我們也會請經濟部來做整個一個演繹好謝謝謝謝主席長來我們結束林道化委員的質詢你的答案就是這樣他哪能夠自負盈虧啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8175.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8189.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
好 謝謝林委員來 請回我們等一下因為今天質詢時間非常的長等一下在內會委員 委員質詢之後我們休息五分鐘讓大家上洗手間請大家把握時間盡量在質詢之內因為我們今天質詢的議題比較多專案報告時間比較長來 接下來請羅樹斌委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8207.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8212.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
好 有請農業部次長跟衛福部次長來 請衛福部次長 農業部何政次 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8228.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8241.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
委員好兩位次長好那我今天呢最主要的討論的議題是在對於美國輸入的這個馬鈴薯當中的檢疫條件的過程因為現在我們可以看到說因為事情爆發之後呢農業部跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8243.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8253.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
衛福部就做了很多的這樣子的一個修訂我覺得這是好事但是我們最重要是看到為什麼當初會有這樣一個結構第一個我們看到的是1月21號的時候就有一個修正案的預告它是要調整美國產的加工農業加工用的馬鈴薯的分流管理本來應該是要60天的預告期現在只有14天 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8264.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8277.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
那第二個呢 2月6號正式公告之後呢它刪除了來發芽禁止輸入的這個底線都在放寬那就是邊境放行讓這個有發芽症狀的馬鈴薯可能可以輸入那當然第三個我們看到是說呢這個是特別是專用到對加工業我們也很清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8283.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8301.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
但是這個加工用當中呢是有些就直接到的是那個加工的設備工廠當中但是這個地方的說如果都已經過了邊境這一關了之後他進入到工廠去了這部分檢疫的部分可以到工廠的嗎好那第二部分呢這裡面就是還包括的是第三第四個就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8302.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8310.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
我們的要求就是或是美英或美方的要求說他在輸入到台灣的之前還必須要用發芽抑制劑來去清洗是做這樣的讓他可以不要再發芽等於說讓我們的民眾們在介於他會發芽的會有這個龍回檢的這樣子一個有毒性的這種傷害之下或者是說我們用一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8324.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8329.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
發芽抑制劑它可能會對我們的一個肝臟這些部分會有這個傷害尤其我們這個標準呢還比歐盟它現在有放寬了是到0.2的ppm可是現在呢我們是30ppm那這樣的一個差異性我就想問的是農業部跟衛福部 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8346.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8370.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
你們在這個當初的時候你們是採取什麼樣的立場或是你們在參加當初因為這個是根據這個理由上面很清楚他是要根據是要因應要這個我們台美的關稅協議的這個生效在這裡情況之下想問一下當初我們的我們在談判的你們有商量我們談判的這個協商過程嗎還有說說你們在你們是什麼樣的情況是因應到這樣的台美是被告知的嗎先問這兩個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8375.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8384.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
在農業部的部分我們如果是先時用的話所有的規定沒有變那如果是加工用的話我現在是問加工嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8386.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8405.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
是 那加工用的話 我們農業部的角色是三個第一個我們先看有沒有帶土壤帶土壤那個必須要推第二個它有沒有八種病蟲害第三個市長 你的問題 我的問題是在於說你們在當初的在MOU 天定跟ART的放行的時候你們當初有沒有去參與這樣子的一個談判的過程我沒有參與你們在農業部有沒有參與 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8413.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8438.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
農業部 其實我們另外有一位次長因為他現在人出國 我是代理他來備訓我不曉得他是不是有職業參與到這個那衛福部呢 莊次長報告委員 這個食安的議題的檢驗部分我們一直都沒有變 從107年到現在所以驗了龍葵檢 還有剛剛的那個液壓器 液壓數的部分都是依照當時的規定 都沒有改變以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8439.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8445.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
但是我的問題是在問說你們當初衛福部有去參與到我們在台美關稅談判當中嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8448.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8476.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
我們沒有這個議題啦 就巴亞的部分不是我們的對 沒有嘛就是沒有 結果全部都是因應到你們事實上是要被事後通知的所以才趕著要在1月21號的時候可能有些結果就沒有沒有 應該是說這整個在整個內容沒有這個檢驗的問題啦對 但是問題是因為這是農業部的問題農業部他把這樣子一個檢疫的條件把它放寬了是這個部分那這裡所造成的效果是我在想 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8477.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8496.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
農業部你們這邊應該說因為現在沒有人證明說你們有參加可是就我們現在談判那邊沒有看到這樣的一個人在裡面這就是顯示出來你們現在遇到這樣的問題的時候你們等於是被事後告知是以我們的要關稅的降免為代價但是可是你們現在的樣式我在想說如果說 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8497.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8518.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
我們的這個市域型沒有在現在4月份爆發出來是不是當然我也知道你剛才有說過現在的這個進口的要去加工的部分是7月才會進來但是如果是他們進口進來了直接後來在防疫上沒有知道而且我們根本就是不太理解的話呢到時候就是廠商呢這個進加工的 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8519.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8542.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
有問題的可能有問題的馬鈴薯就直接進入到加工廠去了然後就直接被製造出來讓民眾去使用了這樣子的一個狀況呢是不可能會出現的是很有可能會出現的所以這樣會說當初我們的農業部還有包括我們的衛福部遇到這個情況這樣的情況是不是根本就是沒有把我們人民的健康都代價 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8544.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8572.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
檢疫的條件沒有放寬這個要跟委員來做說明有有有檢疫沒有放寬啊檢疫的部分你們是已經允許有發芽症狀的馬鈴薯加工的進入啦怎麼會沒有不是他那個是本來是所有的加工也好 鮮食也好是違反三種一套標準在農業部分我們檢疫發現就馬上就退 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8572.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8592.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
我們現在是說你們這邊部分是在說加工的部分直接還到農業直接還到加工廠去好這個部分我看到你們的態度上面事實上沒辦法就是自治務就是不要再問到這裡因為我們現在看到不然的話你們現在為什麼這裡這兩天的時候農業部跟衛福部的官員一直出來在講說我們會真正 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8594.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8610.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
卓院長他也很清楚的說了我們都會逐項的就是整櫃都會去看這個部分就是在做防疫防疫保養的動作嘛好我就這樣子講他說這部分喔我想要就是這個程序上面的一個過程流程我希望說農業部跟尤其特別是指農業部要這個過程要跟本席來做一個書面報告可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8614.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8632.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
蘇貞報告可以交我還是跟委員報告一下發芽率我們最近這幾年檢查都像去年只有0.6所以其實目前我們是負責發芽的問題你發芽率很低是為什麼你加了疫菌劑啊疫菌劑下去啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8634.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8646.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
所以我跟你講我們就先講到這裡因為我還有其他部分要講但是我想用書面報告來呈現因為這裡面有看到的整個政府團隊裡面為了人民的健康的部分的把關事實上是不夠的好我們就現在沒有放寬啦沒有放寬我們用書面報告給委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
8650.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
8652.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
農業部在南投民間鄉的焚化爐的用地的問題上面我們看到的是部長他在4月16號前幾天前他說了在民間鄉的焚化爐它這邊都是一個農業的特農地 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
8671.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
8689.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
那他就說呢他會到目前到16號為止他沒有受到南投縣政府的農地變更申請喔沒有喔沒有喔但是他是特定農業區喔那我們現在看到往下看了喔繼續往下看可是呢在這個農業特定區當中我們可以看到行政院在114年去年的3月28號呢就已經呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
8691.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
8694.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
我們繼續往下看財政部的次長請上台我們看到的是財政部的次長請問次長能不能暫停一下時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
8722.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
8732.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
次長好我們看到複稅署在去年的3月20幾號就已經給了我們看到是另外一個問題是我當然要請到是這個審計部的部長陳部長請你上台現在講的是另外一件事情在南投縣的政府我們現在就先讓部長上台 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
8749.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
8764.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
這個陳部長要跟你講就是南投縣政府他用了這個專款專用的環保基金來去買了這個國土地 國有的土地大概一萬一億元這個部分那可能有違法之嫌啦這邊要跟大家講的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
8765.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
8785.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
看到是剛才農業部也說了 部長說了它是農地 農業專用地然後但是呢國產署這邊就已經給了移的地那這邊呢尤其在資金的上面呢在買的這個地因為特定的環保基金呢它事實上它並沒有用到市售可以去買地它在政策是在買地的部分呢確實有出現就是這邊要請教的是要請 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
8789.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
8814.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
陳部長您知道這件事情嗎知道那這部分您的看法是怎麼樣因為看起來有一些爭議啦其實能不能買地他有一個收支保管應用辦法他那個收支保管應用辦法裡面是可以買設備但是我們要如果要去查他的立法說明能不能買土地因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
8816.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
8836.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
設備是一般在會計上土地是包括在裡面但是立法因為很多的立一個法都會有立法說明我們會整個了解以後給委員一個報告好可以那另外的農業部次長你們的部長已經說了是要農地農用這部分你們的看法是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
8837.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
8864.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
對 因為特定農業區的話我們希望在台灣有限的這個土地要作為農用因為這個是非常好的一塊這個特農區那你們就是會堅持這樣的情況嗎我們會 但是因為它我們還沒有送過來我們不曉得他們當時他們會做怎麼樣的一個結論如果送過來的話我們會站在基於保護農地的立場我們會希望這一塊地應該是用在農用上 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
8865.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
8880.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
OK 好 謝謝農業市長有這個意見另外只是請陳部長留下來 其他的就請回最後一個部分呢 就想要簡單的去回應一下就是說我們看到的是 想要針對的是 能源競速的做結論好 就是 我也許就講 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
8881.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
8904.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
我們看到的是在審計部在一百三年決算報告當中提出了六項的這樣子一個整體上面對總體所得分配的這個內容但是在因為我們看到那個效果裡面尤其在財政就是在這個薪資這部分它事實上九七成還是低於這個員工的平均數的情形那總之總共我本來有很多部分要去講包括在學校的部分等等的那最後我就想是說想要問的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
8907.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
8928.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
針對這一個你們所做出來的決算報告對行政院各部會裡面的民生措施為達目標或者是財務的維持上面你們審計部做了什麼有沒有給他們做一個具體的時程建議有沒有更強烈的苛責行動因為貧富不均看來越來越嚴重是國際的風險我們這一個部分會每人查 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
8929.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
8948.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
查到有一定的成效才會結束所以114我們還會繼續查包括改善措施好 那個詳細的改善措施謝謝 感謝劉主席接下來請賴慧雲委員賴慧雲委員質詢完之後我們休息五分鐘 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
8953.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
8956.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
謝謝主席,有請主席長跟沈記長 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
8963.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
8992.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
委員好 好 那個兩位早安我想延誕了235天那2026的總預算終於互違了那也是今年的總預算從去年的9月1號送進立法院一直被拖 拖到政協會過後終於在前天4月21號互違我想這個是民主化以來在立法院的頭一招 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
8993.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9015.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
那立委要在基數基數的這個會期裡頭審議算這個也嚴重的打亂就是立法院以往向來的一個常態一個會期主要審法案一個會期主要審議算的節奏那在這裡我想特別特別在跟那個沈機長在做一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9018.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9039.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
請教 審計法第21條就是說審計機構或審計人員對於一個機關違背預算或有關法令的不當支出得事前拒絕或事後剔除追繳這個是不是就是說如果預算花超過的話要不要追回 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9040.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9045.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
因為我們的財務租蓄是在這個預算範圍裡面來執行我們是希望因為現在6月才要審5月現在開始在審到6月才會通過因為預計在6月通過我是希望當時因為我們的預算法有一條是說你可以按照上年度的執行情形來執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9066.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9074.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
可是我已經花了 超過了對 我是希望在預算在立法院審議這個問題各位立法委員在審議的時候希望能了解這一點能夠給行政部門當時的依照規定來做的要不要追回因為原則上如果立法院決定的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9087.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9110.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
我們是會給審計意見說你這個是超過你的預算數這是我們在預算監督預算執行的基本原則沈記長要不要追回當然是基本原則應該是我們會追這件事情好謝謝要追回沈記長你請回 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9113.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9137.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
我想這個先動資的一個預算動資的一個預算然後被大砍過頭了那我在這裡請教主計長像你今天就是在未來你要省的一個總預算我們的公務預算裡頭有編了一個國外的理會46萬1千可是去年是44萬5千 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9139.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9151.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
那如果被砍到比去年的44萬5千還低的話那你怎麼樣支應還是要勞勢動眾又去追加預算你打算怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9152.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9179.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
所以這個部分我們也懇求就像院長講的希望能夠盡量來寬列預算因為我們因應中東一個戰爭本身有很多的一個在預算還沒有追加之前它也有很多一個業務的一個需求所以必須要從原有的經費去做調整支應所以這個部分如果像去年一樣也是譬如說去年像出國禮會是大砍百分之六十是啊 梅軒也大砍百分之六十 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9180.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9206.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
那其實監察院他是全部砍97%幾乎只剩下人士會那所以這個部分本身支援是有困難所以我們再三的請求也再三的拜託各位委員這方面能夠寬烈預算讓我們好能夠來因應中東戰爭的一個相關的一個整個動漲措施的一個調適那另外呢我們也會辦追加但是追加可能就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9206.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9222.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
在比較後面才會來辦理追加或者是特別預算這個部分也必須要等到行政院政策系的一個做決定那才能夠去做說到底是要辦理怎麼樣所以你還是要看行政院就是說怎麼樣的下一個指示 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9223.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9249.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
那如果你從預算法第54條裡頭它規定的非常清楚預算沒有通過以前只能依照上年度執行的執行數來執行可是我們如果對照那個會計的業報我們發現今天執行數比去年的執行數高那主席長你要解釋一下這怎麼辦還有就是說本席看來這個是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9251.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9274.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
針對的中央政府在總預算還沒有通過以前還是中東戰爭這些元素以前你已經花了比同期更多的錢那這裡非常清楚就是說你不僅累積了分配數去年增加就是年累積數累積實現數都比去年增加那你要怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9275.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9303.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
所以這個部分就是讓公務人員行政執行方面感到為難的一個地方所以我們一直在說就是這個部分就請貴院還有來能夠儘速把總預算來審查通過就要審了啊就要審了啊對啊延宕了235天要審了那如果像這樣子這個法條又是硬梆梆的定在這個地方的時候然後你們都已經是 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9304.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9327.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
超支了那怎麼辦你要回答我的問題是是我要跟委員報告我們是以整年度來看而不是說一個季啦所以只要整年度我沒有超過那個那個原來所謂的決算數的這個部分所以我們現在是到將近第二季 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9327.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9355.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
你是用整年度嘛那我告訴你的是同期嘛所以說你就是回到整年度好 那個主席長我再請教你如果你今年度的預算數比去年度的預算數還高的話那今年度的總預算案到目前沒有過理論上應該所有動資的上限應該是比去年實際執行的一個預算那個額度 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9356.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9380.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
額度還會那個更低才對對因為你們的收益節省嘛你不敢亂開嘛可是法定的義務收支可以不可以刪如果中央政府法定的義務收支的事項譬如說他人事會他的債務支出他的社會保險社會津貼然後還有最嚴重的軍公教優存的利息補貼你可以刪嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9382.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9411.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
這原則上依法律義務的一個部分我們希望委員能夠盡量支持因為這個刪了將來也是必須依法必須依規定在編列回來可是如果有些委員支持有些委員不支持的話那怎麼辦所以這樣整個造成一個行政程序的一個重複因為為什麼這個被刪減的部分依法律義務我們必須再回編所以這個回編的部分就要再一次的一個追加預算或者是透過另外年度的一個預算再來補齊 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9412.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9436.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
是嘛 所以我想大家非常辛苦我如果用一個那個疾管署的案例你看還議的預算95億至少被立法院通案三減三減大概3783萬這個都是非常嚴重的一個問題所以我想就是也在這裡就是跟審計處跟主計處就是拜託啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9440.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9458.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
這個當然大家都非常的辛苦尤其在這一年多以來大家非常辛苦大家就是要省預算你們大概要想出一個比較妥善的一個說明的方式我們再三懇請貴院能夠手下留情能夠寬烈預算 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9459.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9477.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
好 主席長 那個五年辦一次的農業 農藝牧普查是不是已經開始了是已經開始了嘛 從4月10號開始了那要到6月30號那我想這個跟主席長提醒 你來自於台南 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9479.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9503.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
台南是所有我們這一次縣市調查的一個指標我們的農戶是最多的是超過超過了11萬那這個11萬是占全國普查那個91萬戶中的12%那你在台南投下了多少資源做多少的一個宣導 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9506.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9532.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
我們這個宣導是這樣像各縣市的部分是由各縣市去辦理那我們自己本身也有編列1600萬在整個做農林漁業普查的部分來做一個宣導所以這個部分我們今年就是五年一次的農林漁業普查我們除了加強人力的一個改善還有一些系統的一個改善你丟了多少的一個預算在這個全國最大的一個直轄市 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9533.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9535.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
因為這個其實是非常重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9538.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
9563.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
一千六百多萬但是縣市我們也有補助六十萬那地方政府呢地方政府我們就補助六十萬美容區公所、鄉公所他甚至提供有摸財品的一個誘因這個當然就是說要大家認真的去重視龍一木的一個普查聽說獎金是十萬塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
9565.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
9567.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
沒有 我們也有提供獎金100萬 頭獎是10萬那100萬分配到全國去對 也有提供這樣子主席長 這個龍魚木普茶對農民有很多的好處 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
9581.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
9602.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
所以我們我來自於就是那個農業的那個選區所以我對這件事情非常非常的一個重視我希望就是說你能更加精準的配置補助的經費然後也對症下藥就是切工還有這個老龍那個人力老化的這一些問題還有產銷的一個失衡 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
9604.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
9626.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
還有避免果件傷容改善在地的農業基礎的一個特別的依據然後跟著詐騙集團來了現在現有存在的你要大家去網路上來做普查的一個調查那成效好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
9628.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
9649.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
目前是成效很好目前為什麼會成效很好就是說會在網路上報的大概都是青龍青龍已經報了差不多了然後詐騙詐騙已經跟著來了所以我們希望就是說你書面報告就是說這個你們怎麼預防這一個詐騙好不好給本席知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
9650.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
9659.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
好 谢谢我们感谢谢谢我们来会员委员的质询我们休息五分钟五分钟之后我们开始王世坚委员的质询谢谢大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
9691.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
9691.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
請下台 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
9745.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
9746.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
這裏面是一間餐廳的餐廳 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
9773.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
9781.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
好,我們就打個小卡,公園一趟,我們就打個小卡,公園一趟,我們就打個小卡,公園一趟,我們就打個小卡,公園一趟,我們就打個小卡, |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
9804.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
9806.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
我已經死定了我已經死定了我已經死定了 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
9840.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
9842.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
你吃別家啦,你吃別家的啊啊我吃別家的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
9870.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
9871.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
下雨了 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
9889.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
9890.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
謝謝你們辛苦 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
9922.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
9922.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
9994.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10003.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
好 我們現在繼續開會接下來我請王世堅委員大家請陸陸續續就座好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10005.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10012.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
還在洗手間沒關係但是那個大家保持安靜一下來謝謝王世堅委員謝謝主席我請衛福部莊次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10052.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10055.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
莊市長這次針對我們自美國輸入馬鈴薯這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10060.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10088.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
防疫檢疫的標準這個部分所以我們特別找你來那這個問題針對馬鈴薯輸入台灣那麼他的檢疫這部分的條件現在變成是由關務署還有貴部的食藥署以及農業部檢疫師他們處理我特別沒有找農業部跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10090.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10099.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
關路署上來了 不用 農業部你請回因為農業部我什麼都管但是什麼都管不好所以你請回你請回 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10101.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10126.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
那關務署說實在話是無辜啦關務署其實主要是要針對查緝走私違禁品毒品以及關稅徵收管理後那他們本身也已經夠忙啦所以這一次實在是也無妄自在多了這樣子的一個任務所以彭署長請回請回請回所以其實最主要關鍵我們輸入這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10130.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10154.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
的農產品最重要是要檢疫看他這個是不是會對國人健康產生影響所以最關鍵是你們啦你們的檢查啦你們的檢查我們就是要針對是否含有龍葵檢來做檢測那這個部分就是屬藥物屬就是屬 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10155.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10169.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
那個你們衛福部的責任啦食藥署就是要針對這個部分可是很清楚的針對龍葵檢的檢驗那在我們台灣目前只有兩個機構 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10171.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10199.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
我們目前有六個機構可以檢驗啦又有多少了嗎沒有就是有兩個是認證的其他也是都可以檢驗沒有認證的我們敢給他做嗎而且每一次檢驗檢驗龍葵你知道嘛你是專家每一次檢驗需要五到七天的時間三天三天好就算你三天我們每次進口啊這個頓數我們有百分之 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10200.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10226.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
我們有進口的數量是佔高達15萬噸如果以顆數算那是數百萬顆上百萬顆以上那我請問這麼大的量你要來檢驗就算說檢驗一次要三天在你看只有兩家機構之下我們這個檢驗的量能夠嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10229.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10250.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
是這樣子我們現在是用抽驗的方式所以像從113年到現在總共馬鈴薯進來1652批所以我們就是抽2到10%目前我們是檢驗的61批大概4%左右那這個部分事實上量的目前是一風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10251.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10273.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
那如果需要的話我們會再加驗現在量能就已經不足了喔那現在因為我們本來就是我們如果查到我們如果查到發芽我們現在不是整批退欸不是了嘛應該是說驗到龍奎檢超過200批驗我們整批退他一批如果有三個貨櫃三個貨櫃都退 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10275.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10299.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
對啦 我是說 但是如果以農業署那個檢驗的方式啦現在沒有檢驗如果是以發芽 以目測這個標準你沒有整批所以量會增大嘛對 鮑偉 如果說是有看到就是農業部有看到有發芽的部分那他們會把它剔除那我們會針對這一批的部分你放心啦 農業部看不到的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10299.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10304.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
我們會針對這一批去做檢驗我已經認為必須全部寄望於你而且實質下去驗為什麼好你現在說我現在就跟你講投一關用龍奎檢驗好這是第一項第二那之後再來就進來啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10324.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10338.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
進來就是加工用的這些變成後端茶葉後端茶葉就是用食品工廠他們自己的管理或者我們怎麼樣去抽茶 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10339.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10357.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
但是在這一個部分我想莊市長你也很清楚我們國內的食品工廠加工廠參差不齊我們都會定期去查核你查核的量能是怎麼樣我請問你查核的量能是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10361.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10389.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
我跟你講我們說我們這一次同意同意說加工用的馬鈴薯那這樣子就是說我們不整批退啦我們說比照日本的標準很好光是日本在後端這個加工處理方面他要做這一個薯條啊他們就必須要第一個他們有指定的工廠日本政府自己下去指定 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10391.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10403.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
要5A級的食品廠才可以做而且特定的品牌要經過日本政府同意第二個他們要有一定的機器設備這個機器設備這個機器設備是可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10412.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10433.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
這個機器設備是可以具備它高度自動化的色澤與形狀辨識機器它是這樣子 色澤跟形狀自動辨識才能夠進入它的加工程序我們有這樣的要求嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10435.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10452.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
報告委員對於我們國內的食品加工廠我們本身就有要求要去做一些業者第一個就是業者本身的設施設備本來就要符合相關的規定那在於他開始製造的之前他本身除了要自主的 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10453.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10479.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
檢驗自主管理之外自主監測那是它自主的第一層第二層的部分必要的一個規模之下可以由第三方來驗證那另外有一個就是委員非常關心的衛生單位的稽查那衛生單位有中央跟地方共同合作的專案稽查之外地方也會依它的產業特色去做稽查我們中央跟地方的稽查第一點都量能不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10480.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10499.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
那這個我不怪中央說是不是監督配合不利不是因為各地方政府這樣子的案量也太大了在我們食安法通過之前在這一個部分我們地方政府實在是力有未待啦好了那這樣我這次就只問你就光這個書 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10502.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10523.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
這個馬鈴薯的部分馬鈴薯最重要百分之百加工的就是薯條嘛我現在就問你嘛就光是日本他們說的必須要有色澤與形狀辨識設備這個部分有或沒有我告訴你我問民間的這個相關食品加工廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10525.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10547.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
他們連聽都沒聽過啦 人家都很老實回答承認嘛那所以啊 我們要 我們說我們輸入我們的條件要比照日本那我們也相對也要有比照日本的設備跟工廠這樣的機制才能比照不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10549.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10569.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
委員您所關心的就是你只說人家他們進口他們拿一些可以寬一點可以輕鬆一點這是好喔這對大家各國之間貿易的往來這對我們台灣也不是不利我們對人家進口的友善方便通關相對他們也要對我們方便 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10570.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
10588.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
在農產品的部分但是食品健康的部分怎麼辦還有我再問你莊市長你是專家那如果製成製成薯條或薯餅以後後端你有辦法再去查驗農窺檢嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
10589.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
10599.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
不可能啦 不是嗎在傳統市場啦或是像全聯超商這邊我們會去抽煙還有原料單我們會去抽煙 對那個已經經過油閘 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
10604.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
10630.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
經過徵阻 經過N項程序以後我看我們不管食藥署或地方政府衛生局連一件也不會去查啦報告委員如果這個產品進入到工廠工廠裡面的產線從一開始我們工廠有稽查專案我們再去查的時候我現在就請問你可能我問的跟你問的不太一樣嘛我就問你你現在是不是趕快通令這些有做 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
10633.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
10647.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
馬鈴薯加工的這些工廠請問他們有沒有說自動化的色澤與形狀辨識設備有沒有好不好委員您關心的是選別機對不對那就是一個包括它的形狀 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
10648.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
10663.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
都比照日本的標準選擇機裡面包括一開始原料去做一些選別然後包括設置的部分那這個部分我們可以再去我們會再跟工廠確認但是基本上這是一個工廠的基本設施設備那麼那個莊市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
10666.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
10687.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
還有最後我請教一個問題就是關於我們重要的藥品的管制因為最近國際上有一些紛擾比較不安先前我們在進口藥品的部分就已經碰到一些干擾那這個問題就是說過去長期以來我們都沒有主動去查核這些重要藥品的量 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
10688.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
10712.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
能的這個部分結果這個部分我們都是讓藥商來向我們他們反而是藥商主動必須跟我們報備那我們反而沒有反向去主動要求我們有立法是他們一定要跟我們報備如果說六個月之內有缺藥什麼他一定要跟我們通報這個事實上是有法可以罰這個是讓他來報備我們沒有主動去查查 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
10718.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
10743.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
我認為針對主要的藥品我們會去查工廠也會針對藥商報備來的那現在怎麼會這些重要的藥品有缺貨呢主要有時候是因為突然它原料有缺貨或是說他們工廠要改建那這其實有時候是就是會發生類似這樣的狀況這個我下次好好跟你談一談謝謝你 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
10746.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
10763.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
謝謝王世堅委員王世堅委員剛指導的高包包指定加工廠的部分有沒有這樣的量能跟有沒有這樣的設備可以去做篩檢這是我剛提出來的請莊次長這邊做完整的書面答覆接下來我請李坤成委員 謝謝謝謝主席我們先請這個陳署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
10782.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
10798.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
委員好主席長好現在我們才要來審查今年度的預算其實今年度的預算應該是去年底就要審查了你們這一次的115年度的總預算稅率是編列2兆8623億稅出是3兆350億 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
10805.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
10819.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
那是在去年的8月29號就送到立法院來了所以超過230天終於要覆為審查了那其實在上禮拜的時候我有問過這個主計長面對這個中東的戰事那其實去年在編預算的時候也沒有遇到 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
10820.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
10840.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
然後呢 這個上次有跟主席講 提到就是說這個各部會面對這個中東戰事所需要的經費你說各部會大概統籌下來 需要大概1292億啦那時候我有提到說 那是不是用這一個用特別運算的方式來做處理那主席長那時候回答說 那也是一種方式啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
10841.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
10861.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
那想請教一下主席長因為現在預算是附為審查了那應該有機會在五六月的時候通過啦那所以現在院裡面的態度呢因為的確我們還是需要這一筆預算那這筆預算來因應中東戰事那現在院裡面的態度是用特別預算呢那還是用這個追加預算的方式來做處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
10862.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
10877.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
因為目前還沒有定案啦因為如果說特別預算就要擬定特別條例先經過立法院來通過如果用追加預算就是照時間直接辦追加預算那第二個呢當初是提1292億這個是各部會提報的一個數據那還沒有經過它整個的一個補助期間或者是說單價和細節去完成審查但是陸陸續續 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
10889.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
10914.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
如果以中友來講他除了吸收他那個價格到目前為止是114億左右這個部分但是其他他還有吸收要吸收一些成本因為現在他進貨的一個成本每一個貨輪他都漲價漲得非常的多所以這一些的成本的吸收將來要怎麼樣去做編列預算來給他做一些補貼不然的話整個中友他的一個財務狀況就會越來越壞 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
10916.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
10919.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
主席長意思是說將來如果不論是特別預算或是追加預算金額會比這個1291還更多就對了那這要看你編列的期限是多少譬如說我如果說補助三個月譬如說我有對所謂的交通的部分公共巴士或者其他的一個補貼 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
10938.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
10967.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
那這個部分公共運輸的一個補貼那這個部分他要看你補貼期間的多少那因為他有一個油價的上限那我們現在是動漲他有達到上限要補助開始補助或者是說到什麼時候截止或者要不要補計程車或者是其他的一個相關的中油的他補貼的這個部分要怎麼補貼台電的天然氣的部分要怎麼補貼這個部分都必須要一個一個去算那各部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
10967.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
10991.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
譬如說你講的經濟部或交通部或農業部他們已經有一個目前需要的一個數字這個補貼的一些預算送上去所以你才會給我1291億這個數字這是最初期的最初期的所以我才問說那如果我是聽主計長這樣講那是不是這一個因為戰事也不知道哪時候會結束聽聽打打的那所以最後有可能這個數字會再比這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
10992.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11013.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
超過這個數字1292億就對了是的也有可能啦因為目前我們請他們陸續提報但是這個部分因為像中油的話它吸收的成本非常的多以現在來講它的成本就是整個是高漲起來那將來一定要做有一些的一個補貼不然它可能那所以要用特別預算或是用最佳預算都還沒有確定就對了 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11013.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11019.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
但是的確是需要這筆錢 這筆預算我們這一個穩定物價或是說對於各行各業的補貼其實已經陸陸續續在開始在做了那我再請教一下主席長總預算附有附帶的條件附帶條件就是說要行政院在半年內提出有關居能待遇條例 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11036.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11057.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
還有這個警察人員人事條例的相關修正案還有其他有關軍公教的保障措施那我請問一下主席長那當然這個目前這部分我們是先釋憲了但是因為在野黨有要求然後為了這個讓總運算能夠審查那所以行政院這邊看起來是有讓步啦就是說主委長是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11058.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11077.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
對於這兩項的修正案還有軍公教整體待遇調整的想法應該還可以有加強的地方更符合國軍的照顧也照顧到國家財政的紀律也符合憲政的精神請問一下主計長那這個要怎麼做因為看起來就是要再追加預算了嘛不然你們去年就是沒有這筆預算啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11080.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11102.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
這個部分我要跟委員報告 院長有指示未來將以體制健全、法治完備、公平、恆平、財政永續這四大原則來做整個檢討整體軍公教的待遇所以這個部分不管是在公平性、恆平性還有財政永續的基礎上 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11102.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11120.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
是要怎麼樣那人總還有跟相關有一些政務委員都一直在開會在模擬這個整個相關的一個我的意思是說這個四個條件那最後要完備但是呢你要符合這個比如說在野黨他們的要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11120.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11143.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
那我看起來就是最後你必須要用最佳預算的方式來做處理啦因為你去年沒有編這些預算嘛對不對你是講說軍公教、警校或是說整體的這個公務人員的待遇的調整那看起來就是要再追加一筆預算啦我們會看將來的一個討論出來的一個結果我們來做整個一個裁員的研議 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11144.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11159.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
阿對啊我的意思是說啦因為你不可能沒有回應嘛你變成說你有回應的話這筆預算在去年你們編的時候根本就沒有啊對不對那到最後變成還是要用最佳預算方式來做處理啦有點像是去年的這個進發補償條例的方式了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11161.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11186.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
我們必須要看整個實施的日期因為院長要裁定說實施的日期看實施的日期到底是什麼時候然後來確定說第一個我們的裁員第二個實施的日期有可能比如說明年那就是弄在這個明年的預算就對了這也是一種方式就對了那你們現在在編概算了吧現在編明年的概算了對不對所以應該就把這筆預算把它想進去了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11188.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11215.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
現在目前還沒有金額因為現在討論的一個還沒有定案這個一直在人總一直在提方式跟一些相關的一個單位來做討論那我的意思是說似乎就是可能要用這一個行政院自己提不管是條例的一些調整或是說我們自己主動提到說如何再讓這個軍工教育這個待遇能夠再增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11216.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11238.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
那一定最後是提到錢的問題嘛就是預算啊那看起來如果說是在明年實施那當然就是屬於明年的預算了那可能今年就不一定用最佳預算的方式來做處理了啦大概是這個方式嘛是不是好 OK謝謝主席長那我請這個財政部今天是阮次長來嗎還是誰次長好 請次長那你邊走我邊問啦這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11248.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11266.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
2025年 去年 按照你們的資料全國的賦稅收入是3,879億 創歷史新高連續五年呈現正成長然後呢 高出預算數最多其實就是證交稅啦證交稅超出預算數234億 其實是遺產稅但是呢 看起來我們的稅率是增加的 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11277.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11287.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
但是呢 這也是從2021年來首次出現的短針跟運算數相比呢 去年的10針的進額叫運算數短少了143億元那 請教一下市長 這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11293.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11319.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
我們的賦稅收入增加但是實際上又短徵,那短徵原因在哪裡?其實我覺得最主要最主要因為署長最主要是因為他去年就是我們在去年結算申報的時候前一年的時候我們是有給他分期或者延期申報那到這個去年那麼申報 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11320.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11345.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
去年申報的時候他就整個要補回來基本上我們雖然是說有一點就是說時申數比預算數要少一點但是少的非常小就是在1%以內非常精準所以我們去年的預算數的估列是非常精準的沒有啦你們算是那個增交稅就不精準啦增交稅一來一往就差了快400億欸你們是 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11348.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11354.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
本來是編2500億,減列了193億,但是實際上超出預算數是234億,我是說一來一往就400億了,這部分就不精準了有時候是這樣,稅收我們編制到執行真的是有一個落差 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11370.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11396.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
真的是很難掌握不過就去年來講我們按來切去所以我是覺得說就是說時增數達到這個預算數大概百分之九十九點幾也就是說差距真的非常小雖然有時候有些稅務是多的那我再問一下啦因為這是其實是今年度的預算在這邊討論因為你們去年收多少今年都已經知道了嘛那明年度的預算呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11400.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11400.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
政交稅是連續8個月維持正成長 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11420.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11442.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
現在在估明年的這個預算數還有這個證交稅這方面的話應該是不至於再低估了吧其實我覺得這個國際政經情勢這個變動非常的快速啦有時候還很難說現在就說得準啦這個風雨飄來的時間台灣都屹立不搖了在中東戰事突然期間這個股市 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11448.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11470.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
這個跌跌漲漲 台股還是 我看今天本來有到3萬8對 但是後來還是會掉下來對 我的意思是說 因為第一季第一季其實你們時增數是有增加的啦我是希望說你們在預估這個證交稅這方面的話能夠再估準一點啦不然你們這一個 去年你們認為說今年這個股市沒有那麼熱 還減劣 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11472.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11488.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
簡略的增加稅 實際上沒有啊 還增加了兩百多億啊另外我跟委員順便報告一下就是說我們從今年第一季第一季我們就是全國數來講比上一年同期大概增加一千零一十五億但是就中央來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11489.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11496.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
中央其實是少了這個353億因為財務法的關係 因為財務法的關係請市長用書面做回覆待會再請林思敏委員我們待會開放12點開放現場可以使用便當那請林思敏委員 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11522.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11529.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
謝謝主席 我請農業部的胡次長還有衛福部莊次長兩位次長好 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
11542.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
11545.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
請問食用馬鈴薯輸入的檢疫條件,農業部在107年的相關規定是怎樣?對於這些發芽的馬鈴薯,是不是可以輸入? |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
11558.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
11584.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
在輸入的部分,我們農業部是做三項檢疫的工作第一個,你如果帶土的話,那個絕對不足107年的規定是怎麼樣?是,就是這三項,我們檢疫的部分帶土的,或者是有八種病害的、病蟲害的還有花芽超過0.5公分這三項是我們檢疫的5毫米以上的芽體就不得輸入嘛對,所以這個要全部退運,或者是銷毀市長,我請問你當時的規定為什麼要這樣規定? |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
11588.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
11608.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
因為帶土的話我現在不是問你帶土的我問你發芽的因為發芽的部分有可能它會流入市面會去種會種毒嗎不是種毒是會去種啦種在田裡面我說吃了會怎麼樣不是吃的是食藥署他們所主管的所以你不管吃的問題對對對我們是負責檢驗的那就請那個董事長可以回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
11612.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
11626.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
報告委員,如果一旦農業部有看到發芽的部分,他們會剔除,但是我們會針對他們那一批沒有發芽,我們會去驗如果驗出龍骨鹽超過200ppm,我們整批都會退印 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
11628.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
11650.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
市長我問你,我現在問你,吃了這些發芽的馬鈴薯,有可能有什麼後遺症,會不會中毒啊?你從醫學的角度,我們就不介意,不介意發芽就不介意吃吧,不介意吃嘛,吃了會有什麼後遺症,會有什麼後果,可以跟大家分享一下嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
11653.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
11675.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
如果吃了會造成身體什麼樣的不適嗎?因為你介意不要吃就可能看含量多少啦,會有不等的症狀如果說那個含量,發芽的他可能會就是那個節儉的濃度會比較高嘛或者未成熟的,吃了就會造成人體的不適嘛那會有什麼症狀? |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
11677.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
11703.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
可能會有嘔吐、神心性的一些症狀就是會有噁心、嘔吐、腹痛、腹瀉輕微中毒者一至二天內他會自動痊癒重者則因劇烈的嘔吐導致脫水、電解質不平衡及血壓下降更嚴重者會造成昏迷、抽搐、呼吸重疏、麻痺導致死亡 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
11705.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
11720.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
所以我看到我搜尋了一下我們全國各縣市政府的衛生局啊都在呼籲說請勿食用發芽的馬鈴薯那你的意見呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
11721.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
11737.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
我們也是呼籲民眾如果看到芭芽就不要吃所以吃了就是很可能造成我們身體健康的危害所以衛福部的立場是跟全國各縣市的衛生局是一樣的有做這方面的宣導那我再請教農業部 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
11745.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
11772.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
胡市長 是那你在今年的2月6號你就公告訂定對於現在美國產加工用的馬鈴薯輸入檢疫條件做出調整是請問為什麼做出調整調整就是把本來進口的不管是先時或者是加工如果一旦查到的話就退運那後來2月6號調整是把先時的跟加工的把它分開 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
11773.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
11785.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
用途不同因為先時進來先時跟加工但是你現在是針對加工的部分有沒有你就是讓他不是像這個我們剛才講的發血有發癌的就全部不得輸入你現在是讓他輸入 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
11786.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
11809.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
然後再去做篩檢不是我們有三道把關第一個就是我們如果檢疫的時候發現有發芽的部分我們就會跟這個如果他發芽的太長了或者是比例太高了比如說達到兩三成我們也會要求他退孕或銷毀那如果很少因為過去這幾年來平均 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
11810.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
11838.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
查驗到發芽是只有0.6如果我們發現了以後我們會要求這些進口人他要提出一個改善計畫其實市長我想問你就是說你新的法規跟舊的法規為什麼要做這種調整你原本規定就是說只要超過5毫米發芽超過5毫米就不得輸入嘛那你現在為什麼再去做不一樣的改變現在是放寬嘛不是 用途不同啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
11839.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
11866.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
他說他這個發芽的長度是多少是你再去查 請加工廠來查驗是不是這樣不是 我們查驗的不是加工廠查驗是他如果要進來的話因為我們有做海關查驗喔不是你查驗 誰查驗不是 我們有檢疫人員在海關就檢查到了如果有的話而且情況不是很嚴重那這樣的情況我們會問這些進口的人你願不願意那是抽檢還是每一顆都查 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
11866.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
11896.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
你怎麼查那個很簡單我們錢莊貨在一個貨櫃裡面錢莊貨那個很肉眼就可以看得到了因為它是用網帶網帶一個貨櫃有幾顆馬鈴薯一個貨櫃25公噸對啊應該25公噸是應該是上萬顆有吧有有有8萬多顆8萬多顆我們是肉類可以查可以啊因為從這個疫病蟲害也好或者是土壤也好那個就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
11897.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
11921.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
除非說有懷疑它懷疑說這個有黑色斑點我們把它送到我們的實驗給廊長所我們現在的整個我們就是對馬鈴薯的輸入我查到了資料出進口的冷凍馬鈴薯外馬鈴薯種屬除外生鮮或冷藏的主要的輸入國是美國約佔85%還有澳大利亞約佔15% |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
11925.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
11944.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
那我請問你,你這次是針對美國的加工再做一個調整那澳大利亞進口的部分呢?照原來的方式就排除啦?按照舊法規?他們如果只有針對美國因為那個是美國產加工馬鈴薯的輸入檢疫條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
11946.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
11971.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
那澳國的呢 澳洲的呢澳洲他就是照目前他沒有跟我們談那你為什麼要這樣子去做區別呢美國跟澳大利亞為什麼要做區別因為美國給你們施壓是不是不是 這個是本來我們就不斷的兩國之間的諮商這個是一直都在做的所以我說其實我們對美國產家公用馬鈴薯輸入嫌疑條件二月份做這樣的公告 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
11972.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
11992.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
其實放寬這個條件就是針對美國這個地區進口的馬鈴薯來做變更調整嘛這整個談判我們就覺得是非常不公平啦是,在國際上啊其實也都只有針對加工啦針對加工,沒有箱子加工那澳大利亞的你為什麼不把他歸類進去因為事實上我們要勾的 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
11994.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12014.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
我們在民國94年的時候那時候就一致性跟每一個國家那後來陸陸續續有國家之間的相互諮商107年的規定跟現在你2月份的公告只針對美國的加工的馬鈴薯做出新的一個公告其他國家你就說剛才跟我講還是用舊的法規 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12015.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12032.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
所以你為什麼要為美國良心地做一個新的輸入檢疫條件因為其他的國家沒有提出 因為事實上我們要公告之前所以我們就放寬美國的馬鈴薯不是這樣子啦 因為國際之間的貿易就是這樣的慷慨其實我剛才我想 剛才這個 衛生部莊市長講得很清楚發芽的馬鈴薯確實不適合來使用啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12039.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12051.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
不管你是加工後的也是不能吃啊吃的就是為他們國人的健康啊所以在法官上我們真的是要更加的慎重啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12052.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12076.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
如果經濟部做這樣的一個開放我想真的對國人的健康其實2月6號公告之前我們在國內已經有公告讓我們的公共政策討論我們有公開14天那在WTO我們也提出公告給他們都沒有任何意見剛才我們也很多委員關心說你未來對加工廠的選別監管 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12078.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12106.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
大家很關心如果這些加工廠他們如何去去檢測出這些發芽的馬鈴薯是不適宜的所以你未來加工廠的選別監管你將會如何進行在加工廠裡面我們會會同衛福部在加工廠 事實上那個加工廠指定的地點其實我們是準用那個保稅區他所有的監 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12107.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12121.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
他的標準就是你車子就是貨運車要出來的時候要先貼封條要封尖然後的GPS要那個車子的能量足夠嗎?這個保稅區裡面所有都必須要設因為過去是沒有嘛現在就加入這樣一個規定嘛所以你 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12128.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12157.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
一定是要更需要更多的人力嘛所以你檢驗人力足夠嗎我們會比照過去過去就沒有這個規定嘛你小心加入一個規定比例不大啦那個會就是我們所抽到的那個太低了0.6而已所以會增加人力沒有錯0.6就很危險了現在你講0.6或許進來的不止0.6啊這有一個黑數存在啦市長你們不要太有信心啦不是上 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12158.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12180.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
在美國他要進來的時候他們美國國內他自己就要做檢驗了我在書面檢查我剛都看了你不要書面檢疫證明他們提出來你們就同意他進來了我們還要檢查啊你才去送到加工廠去做檢測嘛不是不是海關就先檢查啦所以美國進來完全是書面的檢測而已嘛美國當方面說我這個是沒問題的我這個是沒有發芽的 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12183.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12185.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
那你們未來到底是採取每批都檢驗還是抽樣的檢驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12197.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12216.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
這個問題很重要在邊境的話當然是抽樣 邊境講說每一顆都要抽到檢驗那個是在加工廠裡面 加工廠裡面我們是逐批這個比如說這個申請人他有這一批裡面有三個貨櫃逐批 逐櫃 逐顆在加工廠裡面我們全部逐顆 每一顆都會檢驗 對 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12219.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12220.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
本期對於國人的健康是 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12247.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12256.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
很堅持的健康的破口絕對領農人請相關人員這是衛福部莊次長農業部胡次長財政部的公務署彭署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12276.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12301.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
記得之前有一個是雞蛋之亂雞蛋之亂完了以後就是塑膠袋之亂現在要突然變成一個馬鈴薯之亂我們總是要健康治國啊不可以什麼事就是以亂來治國亂你亂中有序 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12307.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12328.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
民眾不相信啊我想請問一下就是衛福部是,我也好請教一下莊次長是請問那個小朋友啊小朋友幾歲可以開始吃馬鈴薯 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12333.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12359.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
副食品應該是三、四歲之後吧有的兩、三歲就開始吃了喔對啊 對不對好 問題都來了喔小朋友兩、三歲就被餵食的時候他怎麼會知不知道說馬鈴薯上面有沒有發芽大人應該都會看到另外應該是說問題都來了喔那大人天下 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12362.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12391.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
無不是的父母如果大人爸爸媽媽自己帶的話他一定不會拿有發芽的馬鈴薯給他吃啊問題來了我們打開報紙每次看到一些都是虐童案你那個保母帶的時候小朋友如果是每個小朋友都會哭哭鬧鬧的正常嘛你遇到那個黑心的保母 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12393.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12418.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
他就看他小孩子在那邊哭哭鬧鬧他就換了一招不打不罵他就一直餵他吃有毒的餵他吃這個發芽的馬鈴薯這鮮食用的馬鈴薯跟加工用是不一樣的這不用他出力啊報告委員就是說在這種屬於加工用的應該跟你剛剛講的那些是鮮食用的應該不太一樣啦市長有的都你在說啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12422.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12447.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
小朋友兩歲三歲四歲他怎麼會知道說應該是加工應該不加工黑心的保母一塞過來小朋友傻傻的來了嘴巴就張口啊就這樣吃吃吃就吃了半天肚子裡面全都是發芽的馬鈴薯吃了怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12449.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12469.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
因為沒有這樣的 這是一個假設的議題啦那因為市面上 事實上我們都把關得非常好跟農業部這邊其實是雙重把關這樣事情應該不會發生所以你要讓國人都相信你是好 那哪一天如果有剛剛講的情況出現的話你要怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12472.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
12491.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
你說不會嘛這一定是不會啦那你用什麼方式來保證絕對不會跟委員報告就是說在只要在海關的時候農業部有發現有發芽的這個我們都就是就是類似在檢驗200ppm就會把它全部退後你講別的就算你講到海關來我講海關的事給你聽海關叫做關物署 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
12501.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
12522.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
黃署長你做得很辛苦海關的編制人員現在多少報告委員大概4200個以前多少人曾經有到6、7千人以前7千人現在4千多人現在海關啊它光是查緝毒品查緝 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
12526.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
12545.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
其他的一些什麼電子煙啊等等的就忙不過來啦你在搞死所有海關人員啦剛剛莊市長說每一批都要檢查每一顆馬鈴薯都要檢查不能有渙水摸魚 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
12548.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
12576.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
所以每個都要查嗎署長你有辦法每一棵馬鈴薯都查嗎怎麼查你說給大家聽包委員這個部分我們海關還有房間署還有這個衛福部這邊都有分工啦那海關是做這個查緝走私跟透漏關稅這是我們的查緝重點那食品安全的部分檢疫的部分那都是由房間署跟這個食藥署這邊大家分工來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
12577.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
12596.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
所以馬鈴薯一顆一顆檢查是誰來檢查房間署是主題茶宴那換房間署剛剛都聽了他現在四千多個編制人員已經不足了我們現在海關回來也很辛苦你現在還沒有什麼非洲豬瘟 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
12598.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
12625.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
現在有嘛我看所有的工作人員是有那個檢查啦以前是沒有檢查的現在國外回來都是要排隊檢查有沒有農產品有沒有帶肉品防治非洲豬瘟已經整死了這一些第一線的關務署的同仁了今天要再多一個馬鈴薯好那你剛剛講的是叫做 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
12628.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
12638.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
房間署房間署是杜署長杜署長請問你你有沒有吃過馬鈴薯有 我很喜歡吃所以我一聽到我就一定要問清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
12651.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
12674.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
不然你在台灣有很多的炸薯條或者是黑薯餅就是薯餅每次吃我吃我怎麼知道到底有沒有問題所以我們會以後再把關現在由你來檢查你這個房檢署有多少員工 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
12675.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
12692.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
房間署大概就五百多個人多少五百多個人那如果扣除一些休假請假的情況並假平常在工作崁位上有幾個人八百位委員我還分為動物跟植物 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
12693.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
12707.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
動物跟植物那你所以馬鈴薯是植物嘛你動物扣掉那剩多少人那但是報告委員現在這個的任務上我們大概已經在做已經在做準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
12708.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
12734.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
所以因為它是從高雄分署進來所以我們現在已經在制定整個流程跟檢驗那我們會跟食藥署在第一關CIQS的時候就嚴格執行這個所以這個馬鈴薯變成是一個我們防禦的大敵這樣子然後馬鈴薯以後只從高雄關進來大部分都是從高雄關入關 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
12734.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
12753.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
那從基隆不行嗎當然可以啊但是我們的標準是一致的我們的標準一定是一致的就依照這個標準去做執行那也會執行訓練沒有問題你講給別人聽聽還可以啦那一天我才去基隆關我們去考察你有沒有去過 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
12754.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
12767.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
有 基隆關最近大概就是觀光貨輪不是貨輪等一下署長再講給你聽我們去看所有的現在的電子商務 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
12769.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
12796.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
快遞的郵件你知道一天有多少量快遞郵件是關務署為主政那動作的檢疫是我們來搭配好 那請問那個杜署長是快遞進來的東西如果裡面有假有一包一包的那個薯餅是只要沒有生爆炸薯條講起來 薯條三兄弟啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
12797.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
12808.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
如果從那邊進來那你也查不到啊報告立委我們的是殷司檢疫項目那炸薯條他不是殷司檢疫項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
12810.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
12825.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
我們所有的都是檢疫的項目以現在進來來講其實生鮮一年大概2.7噸那主要是涉及病蟲害根帶土那其他一年進口的15噸它包括有冷凍進來有調製進來那這些有的是做馬鈴薯泥馬鈴薯澱粉甚至於做其他的用途 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
12832.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
12845.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
對那這個是整個跟關稅跟食品比較有相關那我們只就病蟲害的問題你的意思就是說你們一共有一百多個人然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
12847.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
12862.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
要我們國人來相信你100個多人可以把這個防護做得滴水不漏不會有發芽的馬鈴薯進來來干擾民眾的健康問題報告委員這是我們的職責 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
12864.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
12876.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
我們一定要全力以赴那另外跟您報告非洲豬瘟的時候那個剛剛講的手檢區也是我們負責的所以我們也都是這樣子在培訓你講得很辛苦啊你也講得很認真啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
12880.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
12901.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
可是你又叫國人怎麼樣相信那成堆成山的馬鈴薯然後有你們100多人在把關然後不會出問題報告委員剛剛我們這個次長也有講以去年114年為例那它的不合格率只有0.6也就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
12902.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
12926.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
合格的部分大概都可以通關但不合格的部分我們就會專批然後送達指定的地點那會提改善計畫那在嚴格的要求之下那這個區域是會等同或比照社區的監督之下足跪、足批、足科來做篩檢我們的原則就是這樣足科啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
12930.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
12950.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
對在加工廠的時候我們的原則就是這樣竹科的意思就是說不是新竹那個竹科不是不是不是竹科的你的意思是說一顆一顆要檢查是我們覺得監督業者來做這件事情你講的話說得很漂亮不是這個做是一定要做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
12950.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
12979.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
那你一顆一顆很難想像啊你這打過人 呈現三萬顆你怎麼弄報告 報告委員他的申請是一批一批進來的那一批一批進來 以我們現在在於邊境的檢驗啊其實也是如此整個的他的沙網 燉袋的時候也是這樣子來檢疫的你們有沒有檢討過是到底是誰是那個trouble maker |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
12980.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13007.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
以前就沒有這個事情為什麼現在如臨大敵然後把一顆馬鈴薯變成是大家覺得是健康危害的一個首惡然後我剛舉那個例子你講得很認真哪一天有一個小朋友被虐童結果智商變差或者身體出了狀況原因就是為他吃有毒的馬鈴薯 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13009.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13035.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
報告委員我想就有兩個層次第一個 美方進來的時候就要把關三強到我們這裡也是一樣會嚴格把關我們一定不會讓有不合格的流入到我們的市場跟加工廠要我們相信一百多個人還有相信你講的話好 謝謝我們羅秘財委員的質詢接下來請郭國文委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13038.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13063.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
謝謝主席,有請農業部跟衛福財政部的代表接著是主計長委員好市長為什麼每次講到這種有爭議性的議題,相關的單位講話都像公文一樣,就不用白話文的語言怎麼講都講民眾聽不懂的語言,到底出了什麼狀況? |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13065.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13080.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
民眾聽不懂所以說一個馬鈴薯的事情搞到馬鈴薯之亂我就問一下嘛那個進口檢疫是財政部是不是還是衛福部還是你們房檢局檢疫的部分是我們負責有沒有翻寬 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13087.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13111.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
標準有沒有放寬?沒有那我再問一下檢驗的比例有沒有放寬?沒有這兩個就是重點啊這兩個重點講清楚就好了好不好市長請回那我再問一下衛福部衛福部最近有一個洗產地的這個高雄市議員邱余軒的老公他的公司大發食材行 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13112.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13136.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
分別進口中國跟越南進來的芝麻跟香菇更惡劣的他們是用貼為台灣的產地的標籤這明顯是其產地賣給高雄的學童來吃還怪法規誤導市長啊說一下好不好這件事情有沒有裁罰有 這個部分溫局已經罰八萬了這個事情也還沒有發生 這已經發生了 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13137.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13165.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
對 國安局已經裁罰8萬那另外因為涉刑法詐欺所以已經移送這個檢調那我會持續追蹤沒有 目前已經送這個檢調了 這已經是發生了事實這才是需要大力去裁罰的事情啊 對不對同樣實案問題怎麼會有兩種標準呢實在非常奇怪那我們請衛福部先回去一下財政部也先回去一下 各位單位先回去我請那個主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13171.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13196.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
主席長總預算終於開始審了這大概破天荒喔最快你覺得刪讀的時候大約什麼時候上一次的紀錄是6月15刪讀啦隔一年啦你覺得判斷一下這我希望是盡快能夠盡快大約嘛你心裡頭要一個譜嘛如果出估這樣應該至少是要在6月下旬啦大概多少6月中下旬吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13196.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13218.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
就可以三讀審完了真的喔我們希望如此真的假喔那六月中下旬是妳現在的期待啦是啦希望啦但是如果是這樣子的話牽扯到一個問題啊執行率的部分怎麼辦有沒有掌握會不會妳到時候執行率又出問題那明年的這個立法機關立法院又說執行率不加給妳砍預算會不會這種狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13219.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13248.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
目前的確會有這樣的一個狀況就是說他有一些該發包的他可能是因為他經費沒有結續所以他發包的金額沒有達到他預定的一個額度那現在如果說要趕的部分這個部分就是說要盡量去追趕一下執行力很有壓力啊可是如果過度注重執行力時間有限的情況底下品質可能就會有憂慮啊這個部分也是我們盡量要跟各單位來請他們來講你還要跟審計部講一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13249.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13267.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
到時候這樣寫的時候不要一直怪行政部門要寫說因為立法院不審預算引起到行政部門 敢不敢這樣寫審計長是因為立法院的關係他敢 他點頭了你就不用上來了好 接下來再算了說那如果是六月的話那我問你啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13268.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13295.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
老榮津貼 國寶年金 八大社福津貼來得及什麼時候送追加預算 民眾都非常期待啊這三筆預算 兩筆追溯到1月1號另外呢 是7月1號總共的金額啊 高達355億欸民眾充滿期待如果按照這種方式 那我就再請教一下主計長您預估的這一個時程大概什麼時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13297.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13319.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
我們應該是 因為現在我們已經開始籌編116年度的一個預算那是明年的事情 我現在問你追加預算的部分但是追加預算也大概是跟他差不多一個期間 因為為什麼大概幾月 能不能說個時間點大概八月底八月才能送八月送的話 要等到通過的話 民眾是不是都要等很久要等到什麼時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13321.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13348.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
反正本會本院非常的勤勞認真啦 研會啦會一直研下去啦所以我們還是希望說這一次預算的一個115年預算審查能夠跨年預算因為最佳預算它不是那麼快的一個能夠通過所以如果穩定物價的一個相關的措施而且這還是很順利喔你六月的時候中旬通過三讀喔年度預算喔接下來你才會 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13349.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13371.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
通過這個追加預算喔這前面快後面才會跟著快喔但是我也跟委員報告勞農年金和國保年金這些的相關的條例他還沒有過啦喔還沒有過喔對對對你看這樣拖下去就更久了不是嗎相關的條例還沒有過就拖下去更久而且你後面還有軍公教加薪會不會加薪啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13373.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13377.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
這個人種的那邊他是有這樣的規劃這個捧份怎麼辦 也是用最佳預算這個最佳預算會不會一併處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13384.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13410.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
一併會處理一併處理嘛如果軍工要加薪的話就跟前面的這個津貼年金一併處理嘛那穩定物價的那個部分呢1300億怎麼辦是這個部分呢就是要第一個當然它多少是要看戰爭的一個期限啦那第二個還要看說補貼的一個項目的期間到底是多少所以必須要其實做一個台式可是現在無限期休戰啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13411.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13436.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
所以現在就是說我們要看行政院整個財市所以不一定會編?這1300億不一定會編?因為目前就已經有中油的部分包括台電都有一些支出其實是應該要做一些的填補如果有辦追加預算是應該要一次辦或者是說要辦特別預算這必須要看行政院的財市啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13437.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
13454.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
所以說這個要怎麼收處理 對一般就是說我們希望能夠在八月底也就是說三大福利軍公教加薪一併在八月底盡可能把它提出來還有穩定物價 因為軍公教加薪比較不確認軍公教加薪這個部分是不是提出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
13455.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
13482.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
要看人總這邊了解了解但是人總已經在朝向這個方向了好我那個本席再就叫你一個問題除了這個預算之外中央發債的部分目前只有4億這個以行公債的部分也就是說我們整個審計部之前提到財政部在推動非營業基金的發行永續發展債券的時候兩年多一件都沒有辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
13483.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
13509.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
終於有一件要辦了結果發現多少四億然後我們去看一下台北市、桃園、高雄合計起來多少兩百八十四億那就很奇怪了現在到底是中央比較缺錢還是地方比較缺錢明明財發法過了之後我們就少了四千多億我們完全不緊張耶主席長這是怎麼一回事為什麼整計部這個提出的報告中央不理不睬是不是吃大鍋飯習慣了 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
13512.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
13540.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
大家想說預算編一編就好不用另外去籌組財源不用去找銀行你去想一想喔你這肆意一放出來馬上啊就被搶空了為什麼因為我們公債的發行量很低嘛所以你永續發展基金的這個發行很多銀行很多金融機關或者是郵政儲軍馬上會來搶你應該透過這部分來彌補現在你的預算不足這個不是最好的時機嗎 主席長 是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
13541.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
13553.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
是 但是這個部分比較偏財政是不是請財政部好 財政部來 請財政部等一下 還有你 還有你 等一下不好意思 我一直以為是你 誤會你來 那個軟刺 來說明一下 為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
13557.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
13574.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
跟委員報告現在目前中央中央跟地方都一直在推中央目前就只有一筆是4億另外有一筆是高雄的航空站以前出餐的部分大家也做得心不甘情不願 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
13576.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
13589.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
現在這個永續發展基金的這個債券其實發展其實更容易因為很多人搶手永續發展債券基本上你們要用一個什麼樣的誘因跟機制來要求中央相關單位來發行 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
13591.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
13608.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
我們現在是先請除了中央跟金管會還有櫃買中心合作來尋找按援之外阮次既然你上了台剛剛人家主計長就說你你是主政單位您一個月之內你要提一個什麼辦法來鼓勵中央相關部會來發行這個永續發展債券來籌措這個資源 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
13614.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
13635.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
以面對現階段預算不足的壓力好不好是我完全了解用一個月的時間好不好我們繼續來推對你們主政你們就要去推嘛我們已經在推了好不好已經在推還不夠嘛你如何刺激他們給他們業績壓力KPI怎麼樣的方法讓他們能夠提早提出來好不好我給你一個月的時間來刺謝謝委員長謝謝最後一個部分那個主席長還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
13640.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
13664.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
你看我們要求地方政府有個災害準備金的部分要總預算1%一般而言這個災害準備金本息為什麼這麼care在北部相對比較少動用到災害準備金可是在中南部的部分呢1%往往都不足往往不足的時候都會跟中央來爭取可是中央呢要求地方1%可是中央變多少中央政府變0.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
13667.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
13669.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
照說至少要編303.5億缺口足足差了250億 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
13676.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
13704.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
欸 那個 主席長這個災害準備金要多編一點不是說我們要怎麼樣這反倒是備而不用嘛你都要求地方一person為什麼中央不能多一點呢不然我們還要跑去民間募款大家搶食中央的這一步稀少的預算而不夠的情況底下卻責任呢下放到給其他人包括民意代表給一些民間團體這樣不對嘛你這個應該多編一點啦主席長你的看法怎麼樣能不能說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
13705.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
13718.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
我們已經逐年在增加了啦速度不夠啦 我知道啦 之前21現在50億啦那以前它只有對地方有規範1%對中央是沒有規範對我知道 還會微乎其微嘛現在中央責任越來越大了之前中央不都下去 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
13721.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
13722.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
謝謝主席 請這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
13749.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
13754.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
主計長還有農業部上次提到離島公共工程的問題我們有請主計總處跟工程會開會你們要來討論離島公共工程的營建成本現在規定是多三成 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
13774.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
13791.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
對 以前是百分之三十嘛那我們現在就請就是說讓他不要做限制就不做限制我有看到你們給我回覆是是是不做限制不做限制可能你也要在這個相關的這個法律或辦法裡頭比如說你的這個共同性 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
13792.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
13805.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
我們會在116年度就做這樣一個規範對 要寫在裡頭因為如果你完全不做限制到時候事實上基層的公務員有時候什麼事也不敢做比較明確 比如說您是說由地方來實際訪查嘛應該怎麼做給一個辦法寫在裡頭寫清楚對 我們會參照公共工程委員會給的意見然後把它列入我們預算編列一個標準裡面來做規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
13819.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
13847.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
是 因為原來事實上在110年度開始本來就有寫說可以有一些一些單價單位如果特殊需求可以續名旅遊 但這個是例外嘛對不對 但是我們的金門的例外這麼多就已經變成是一個常態那我是希望在你們的辦法裡頭比較明確一點讓地方工程在這個不管要招標 不會說招標12次流標然後以後每次一直提高那個後面的款項一直增加也做不了 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
13848.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
13869.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
而工程的延宕也除了時間成本以外事實上預算也要越來越高事實上是對政府反而不利這個麻煩你在今年的就116年的這個共同性費用編列基準表把它寫出來或者要做一個比較明確的函式也可以好這個麻煩你好謝謝主席長好那接著我們請這個沈記處沈記長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
13873.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
13887.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
你好 辛苦了我們金門地方有很多以前是實行戰地政務那戰地政務的時候比如說有很多隱形的地雷比如說軍方 國防部 官部像以我們現在施工環島的難路來講很多有廢棄的軍用油管 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
13891.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
13913.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
國防部在當初有做一些軍事設施啦那後來沒有用以後應該理論上是國防部的責任應該去把它拆除嘛那我們現在有在做一些相關的施工的時候遇到一些軍用的設施要嘛有的要保存要嘛有的要拆除那這些東西呢這個國防部並沒有編列專款專用都是由這個地方政府在跟這個申請這個離島建設基金來 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
13917.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
13941.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
來做這些就是比如說這個廢棄油管來講以這樣來講是來做這些拆除的工作那利用建設基金是要幫助離島建設發展那這些東西是國防部當初他遺留下來的那這個邏輯上來講當初這些遺留下來也是國防部的東西嘛那國防部本身其實是有預算是不是請省紀部可以督促這個我們國防部可以落實這個責任的這個法理原則就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
13942.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
13957.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
他們留下來的東西他們應該編專款比如說幾年內你把它清掉就像以前清地雷一樣不要再由離島建設因為離島建設現在已經是比較少了那要做離島的建設發展那這個國防部並不是沒有預算嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
13958.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
13983.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
他有預算嘛 他可以專款專用編列一個幾年的比如說五年的一個清除計畫 針對當初的佔地政府的那些設施嘛這個是讓符合國有財產法的管理機關應該維護管理廢棄的責任當初是軍方管的 基本是軍方管 所以設施也是他們埋下來的那他們現在就應該把它清除那當然也可以委由地方代辦但這個財源的部分是請省計出來協助要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
13984.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14004.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
謝謝 依照國防部的規定 這是國防部的責任所以我們已經喊請國防部查明第二個 我們審計部會做聯合審計因為牽涉國防部 也牽涉金門地方政府所以我們做聯合審計就是由我們第二廳 國防廳和金門審計處聯合把這個問題做一個徹底的了解來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14010.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14017.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
那個我想你們單位很有力啦也很有執行力也做得很好有請你們就是多多督促國防部這個好謝謝您好謝謝現在請那個農業部 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14022.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14050.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
那個農業部特別是這個動植物有房間署來 署長也有來嘛好 署長好這個您看一下齁 這個金門齁金門是 沒關係 市長也可以啦齁市長是農業農糧署的嘛齁 那署長是是 你也以前在農糧署嘛對 對嘛 那署長是也是 我們這是講防疫齁 今天要講這個防疫金門跟這個 金門是屬於台澎金嘛 中華民國一部分嘛齁那日本是外國嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14051.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14075.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
但是你看同樣發生這個牛結節這個牛結節診這個事情日本的牛有牛結節金門的牛也有牛結節這個有安全規範世界安全規範說谷歌雞是一個安全產品這沒問題你們的態度是日本的牛有牛結節可以進口不受限制但是金門的牛有牛結節就全面封殺不能進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14077.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14085.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
你們是不是對外國比對自家人還寬容同樣的事情金門的牛不能進來但是日本的牛可以進來台灣本島 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14090.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14110.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
那哪一位要回答謝謝陳委員的指教那事實上因為以金門來講確實是對於這個大陸的這個太相近你是因為距離近嗎有他是因為距離所以因為金門的距離所以金門很多東西都要被限制嗎陳委員我再說明一下現在以目前來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14113.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14114.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
就我最近在講的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14131.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14150.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
我先問妳 日本的牛為什麼可以進啊日本的牛節節診的牛可以進喔 不上限喔金門的牛就是不能進啊 我只是要公平待遇我現在再說明一下 是因為在金門它的牛級的管理並沒有落實跟徹底沒有落實嗎 妳看我現在也覺得我們的那個 耳邊已經虧了百分之百了 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14154.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14180.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
我可以進一步再跟委員長報告我沒有注射率98 你們覺得注射率94耳標的這個聽掛已經快要百分之百了你們是要要求到百分之百是嗎報告委員 確實它在牛脊的管理上有很多放牧的那個地方確實是沒有辦法完全掌握到那我請問一下喔 你有沒有完全掌握到日本的牛每一隻牛都有做耳標啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14181.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14200.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
日本他們有沒有我們只要發放這個的部分就是有沒有日本有沒有有沒有去查過沒關係有查有查產地絕對有派員去查產地我不要管你產地我先問你你要求是難道你的要求是百分之百的耳釘掛牌嗎對不對這是你們的要求嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14202.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14226.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
這個是不是你們要求巨木法的要求好沒關係這就是牛如果金門牛要開放要這樣子嘛對不對對這個標準我可以接受我可以接受反正你要要這個標準我不是不能接受好不好好那就接著我們看怎麼做嘛第一個外國進口牛你也必須要一樣的標準這個我是這樣要求的就是外國進口牛你不要讓我到日本去考察發現日本的牛沒有這樣做我們要去查場而且他輸入的 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14227.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14252.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
是非議點非議點他一定要符合國際規範才有可能他的牛會進來對 國際規範來講牛節節診金門的牛不能進來但是日本的牛不受限所以你告訴我你先告訴我你的標準在哪裡我們照標準做沒有關係我們會配合好 我們配合怎麼做有兩個方向而且最近口蹄疫以大陸來講又新型的口蹄疫大陸跟我什麼關係大陸有口蹄疫不是金門有口蹄疫因為兩岸太密切了 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
14253.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
14270.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
那台灣也離大陸很近啊台灣也離中國大陸非常近啊 以全世界來講為了保護整個產業 我們一定要有所作為不是 你不要把金門從台灣切開嘛金門就台澎金馬的一部分嘛我們是就防疫的角度上可以開它多少進就要進 一公里就要進 一百公里進不進 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
14275.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
14290.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
我先跟你討論解決方法第一個我想這個自主溯源系統是不是第一個我們農業部來協助做自主溯源所有的金門的牧場我們都一直在協助我們地方政府也會要求地方政府協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
14291.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
14303.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
包括我們會協助在預算上面你們看是不是要做什麼溯源系統啊QR code啊雲端資料什麼履歷證明這個請你們編列相關預算請地方政府現在做這個我們會協助我們再來討論經費的問題好嗎什麼經費啊你不編列經費他講的叫做什麼不是因為報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
14310.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
14322.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
你們不編列經費然後也不給他進口你們是不想讓這個產業活不是這樣子因為有很多的事在財化法以後是在地方政府你們不編列經費不可能要一條路走嗎你就不支持這個產業嘛要依照財化法的分配學者去做 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
14328.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
14353.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
你又不幫忙 又要限制我要說明 你願不願意幫忙嘛我們願意接受輔導 我們願意接受規範你們願不願意幫忙嘛我們本來就在幫忙我們本來就預算相關這方面幫忙 那地方政府去做幫話委員你也知道 我們都一直在幫你是說你們沒有錢是不是不是沒有錢 而是一直在選擇沒關係 你看我多少錢 需要多少錢我幫你從別的地方選下來好不好 我幫農業部從別的地方審下來來做這個吧好不好我們到審議的時候 我看需要多少錢我看你哪一個部會的錢 哪一個農業部來的錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
14356.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
14368.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
比較浪費我們三下海來這邊做嘛好不好 這我們來協助你齁然後另外來那日本 你告訴我日本的牛你們每一隻牛都有耳標對不對這是你說的喔我們會跟他們這樣說但是牠出口的時候牠一定要符合我們的諮商談判的檢疫的條件金門也有茶廠金門是國內喔金門是國內 你第一個觀念你們每次的觀念都是說比如說青牛桿的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
14385.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
14404.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
比如說禽流感的時候我講禽流感好了禽流感的時候金門沒有禽流感什麼屏東哪裡都有禽流感金門的雞蛋也不能來台灣你們每次都說因為金門離中國大陸比較近所以什麼都不能進來你們根本就不能把金門當作是以家人來看待的知道嗎因為我們的防疫角度上我們是依照風險的高低制定不一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
14405.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
14412.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
而且我們跟他們作戰體系是一致性你們跟日本作戰體系是一致性我講的是在國內所有的我們的防禦體系是在大家都是在 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
14422.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
14433.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
同一個陣線上所以為什麼日本的牛可以進來你這樣回答為什麼金門牛一樣標準金門牛不能進來檢疫條件我還是在想刷房居生的檢疫條件對就是因為地理性嘛那我跟你講那這一題等於病蟲害那這一題等於無鐵嘛因為金門島就是奔不走嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
14438.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
14460.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
我們來協助好嗎協助可以啊 別預算了我剛不跟你講我們來協助 協助看這個層面其實不一定只有經費啦有些也是在基礎上經費是最基本的是最低協助啦基礎上我們可以協助我們一定都幫忙好不好謝謝請陳玉成委員再辦考察去了解一下好 來接下來我們結束陳玉成委員的質詢接下來請鄭天才委員大家盡量保持安靜邊吃便當保持安靜謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
14478.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
14491.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
主席有請主記長還有沈記長請陳沈記長委員好兩位我們看這個嚴兵會115年度的預算115年度跟114年度來做比較的話是增加了 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
14508.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
14535.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
七千兩百二十三萬增加了七千兩百二十三萬五千元但是呢這樣的增加那為什麼我們就以幾個例子啊幾個例子原住民族住宅四年三期計畫這個行政院核定的計畫一百一十四到一百一十七年度 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
14536.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
14565.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
建構及修繕住宅的經費每年是一億三千八百萬但是一百一十五年度只有編列四千七百三十萬元不足九千零七十萬元這麼重要的尤其是我們援助民主的住宅自由力跟一般國民少了少了非常的多 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
14567.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
14595.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
請問一下主席長你了解嗎?主席長因為這個部分我幫你查一下目前我們再查一下這個部分那照道理我們如果說每一年1億3我們應該會主有編列啊它是增加7億多不是增加7千多萬因為剛剛上年度比較是增加7億多你說什麼?7億多不是7千多萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
14596.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
14619.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
百萬千萬億 七億多 七億兩千兩百三十三萬五千元增加這麼多 卻是這麼重要的民生需求對不對 住是最重要的 卻是少了這麼多 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
14622.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
14640.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
這個請主席長我們再查明一下不只是這個跟民生很多減少的你們回去去了解一下到底什麼問題然後錢又亂花這個跟省紀長也有關係主紀長跟這個主紀長原住民組委員會從114年度去年開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
14651.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
14677.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
事辦所謂的公法人事辦計畫以這個115年度來說每個部落事辦計畫一個部落120萬元去年只有100萬今年提高到120萬元而這樣的一個事辦計畫違反原住民族基本法 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
14678.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
14707.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
因為它對應的是原住民族綜合發展基金根本原住民族綜合發展基金按照基本法的規定是沒有這個部分另外啊就業基金也不符合原住民族工作權保障法的就業基金的資用相關的這些尤其是按照原住民族基本法的規定第二條之一啊必須要 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
14708.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
14735.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
定定啊 演兵會必須要訂定部落之核定組織部落會議之組成結一程序及其他相關事項之辦法必須要先訂這個法規命令才可以成為部落公法人現在根本就沒有這個辦法都沒有沒有發布啊你去辦 你去試辦有什麼用呢被試辦的 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
14737.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
14764.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
被事辦的部落他沒有公法人地位如何能有成效呢所以這個部分啊這個主計長如果一個部落一百二十萬如果這個法規公布發布施行之後你知道原住民有多少部落嗎七百多個部落你有辦法支付那麼多錢嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
14766.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
14769.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
對不對所以要請省紀長啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
14771.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
14799.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
要查核 要審計好不好好 我們已經這個案子就已經給他他的效益怎麼樣我們已經在查了這效益不符合啦對 不符合基金的用途我們會提出我們的審計意見我們去做了解好 謝謝再請審計長就這個部落工法人示範企劃詳細的再回覆鄭天才委員接下來請林倩琦委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
14800.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
14817.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
林憲齊 林憲齊不在 接下來請羅志強委員有請財政部阮次長 農業部胡次長以及衛福部莊次長胡次長 莊次長 阮次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
14831.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
14859.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
我想請教阮次長進口馬鈴薯將會整櫃檢查每一顆拿出來檢查請問這句話誰說的我跟委員報告我先問你這句話誰說的嘛我原句有quote錯嗎阮次長這個我不太清楚是誰說的但是我跟委員報告胡次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
14860.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
14883.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
你也不太清楚誰說的我沒有在場但是我據旁邊的了解卓院長有提到說如果進到加工廠的話有花芽的我們會逐顆我引的就是卓院長的原句啦當然你們後面怎麼補充我們待會來看嘛好不好可以齁那我想請問齁這個每年進口美國馬鈴薯大概多少公噸15萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
14887.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
14901.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
15萬公噸對 當中當中生鮮跟加工的27000公噸其他的13多萬公噸那個是調製的或者是已經做成這些馬鈴薯泥這個冷凍進來的那15萬公噸大概是多少顆馬鈴薯 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
14906.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
14927.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
那個已經變成加工那個就不是一顆一顆進來如果一顆一顆進來是多少兩萬七千公噸的話大概是將近一億顆我想請教一下那檢查如果說檢查一顆要花多少時間檢查用機器這樣讓它滑動的話很快我想請問 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
14929.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
14938.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
我們到底要怎麼做到把這一億顆都拿來檢查不是 報告委員在邊境的時候啊邊境有農業部 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
14940.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
14960.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
農業部不是講 最後還是講2%到多少%不是 那個農業部是60%衛福部的話 他們剛才是說所以做得到 每一棵拿來檢查做得到不是 那個檢查是在進到我們的這個加工廠還沒有讓它合格可以加工之前我來回頭來做比較嘛 好不好那我想請問 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
14962.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
14990.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
這個我們知道馬鈴薯發芽會有龍奎鹼毒素嘛所以過去的做法是不是一發芽腐爛就整批退運沒錯吧有幾種做法我們是負責鹼液那龍奎鹼的部分那個是為何不我講的是只要有發芽腐爛就整批退運嘛過去的做法吧對謝謝你啊那現在新的ART變成是出現發芽或品質異常不再一律整批退運嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
14991.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
15019.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
而是要改到送到指定加工廠嘛來區分逐顆來檢測就是來進行選別把發芽腐敗或發霉的個體剔除並整顆銷毀嘛對不對對如果嚴重的話也是會整櫃都退一櫃我想問你啊這算不算放寬啊以前的做法就是整批退沒有放寬這叫沒有放寬沒關係我們就看國人怎麼想啦事實上你可以看到一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
15021.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
15048.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
過去實務上為什麼採取有花芽腐爛就整櫃退運因為我們政府有這個條件有這個能力去逐批逐顆篩選嗎現在有這個能力跟條件嗎所有的做法是一樣的一樣的啊整批退運跟進來逐批篩選是要一樣喔在邊境我們是邊境檢查完之後啊如果有花芽的部分我們在林業部的部分我告訴你啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
15049.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
15068.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
放寬就是放寬你放寬之後改變做法要的是食安品質的把關那是後面在講的可是你不要連第一段都想要矇騙今天消費者嘛沒有因為如果只要我直接講現在不僅沒有整批退嘛你把腐爛發言人篩選責任請交給誰這個是這個是衛福部衛福部就交給你啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
15075.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
15088.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
包委員只要有發芽的部分那就是農業部他們當然會把它剔除掉啦那這些這一批沒有發芽我們會去檢驗它的農魁檢超過200ppm一樣整批把它退貨是 拜託一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
15089.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
15100.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
你剛剛說腐爛發芽就要交給那個衛福部不是吧發芽腐爛還有這個花莓這個是衛福部他們會去檢查請問誰篩檢誰篩檢本來誰篩檢現在誰篩檢喔那個您現在所講的那個是在是在這個加工廠裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
15108.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
15130.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
在加工廠裡面去加工廠去的嘛不是那個還沒有入境那個必須要在那邊我先舉個例子齁你可以舉一個例子告訴我過去啦在邊境檢查有把整批貨櫃內每個物品都拿出來檢查每個馬鈴薯拿出來檢查有做過嗎以前我們是全部所有的這個建築的馬鈴薯60%我們的做法是60%抽檢人力不允許答對了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
15138.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
15158.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
過去人力不允許才會有所謂整批退的情形你現在跟我講你改變出來那請問要擴兌多少人力國際上每一個國家都一樣不是只有台灣啦那個邊際本來就是這樣子我告訴你食安的折扣沒有拿什麼國際不國際台灣食安標準變寬了以後你後面的責任要多多去加強是後面的問題所以最後我還是一個很快的結論結束時間到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
15161.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
15180.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
做不到就不要亂承諾一顆一顆怎麼減啊花芽的部分我們花芽的部分我們會一顆一顆減因為花芽率只有百分之六這個我們過去的經驗所以一花芽的我們會百分之百這個是絕對沒有問題謝謝委員的關心好 謝謝我們結束羅志強委員的質詢接下來請楊瓊英委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
15195.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
15218.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
謝謝主席 陽前發言 我們直接請農業部 財政部跟衛福部阮市長 胡市長 莊市長委員好好 這個政府到底是怎麼了 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
15219.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
15244.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
一個馬鈴薯發芽明明就是以前只要有看到發芽的整櫃退回或者是整櫃銷毀現在為了這個NTE ART在談判的過程當中到底是誰答應的實案是沒有推入的實案也是絕對是零容忍的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
15245.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
15252.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
那到底是誰決定要退讓退讓這個食安請問原本是有 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
15253.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
15275.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
只要櫃子裡頭有一顆就整個銷毀或者是整個退運那現在決定只要把那個發芽的或者是爛的丟掉但是以四十尺為主四十尺一顆好幾?進來有幾萬顆?有幾顆?這是二十五噸啦二十五噸大概八萬幾顆八萬三千幾顆 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
15279.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
15284.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
八萬多顆啊那在這個密閉式空間在運送的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
15285.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
15310.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
那他那一顆爛掉 潛伏期一到三天 嚴重的是七天那你把那一顆到這個臨選 臨別的這個工廠裡頭去選那請教 誰選啊現在台灣的量體有幾家可以選有幾家工廠自己選有合格幾家有合格幾家 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
15312.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
15321.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
有合格幾架那個不是合格不合格那個是有必須要申請啦他要申請你先申請就給你申請才可以做啊幾架幾架幾架來衛福部幾架 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
15329.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
15338.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
講了快兩個禮拜沒有辦法讓民眾清楚進口的業者有21家要領選的這個工廠有幾家發覺有一顆爛掉的你要送到這個工廠去領選有幾家目前有幾家目前不合格只有兩家我們有在驗而已一個40尺的貨櫃就有8萬顆 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
15358.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
15373.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
我們只有兩家你住的來嗎?你住的來嗎?你住的來嗎?一年我們進口的有15萬名事實上就是業者要改善計畫那這個部分就是我們的慰安局會跟慰安局督導所以目前有兩家嘛 對不對你可以幫你領選的 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
15379.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
15394.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
報告委員在邊境只要查驗不合格就退運那剛才所問到的是說如果要到一個指定場所那指定場所就衛福部來講曾經有申請過指定場所是有兩家業者曾經來申請過的這張還可不可以做還可以幫你領 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
15401.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
15418.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
我們在當下不合格當下他必須提改善計畫的時候就衛生局就去現場查核這個在食品衛生安全是業者有需要的時候提出來衛生局去監察這個是食品衛生安全的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
15419.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
15437.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
那你說你沒有退讓以往你只要查到一顆絕對整櫃退現在重點是在查到一顆把那個爛的拿掉其他的可以來篩選甚至有告訴我們我們為一顆一顆來篩選你有這個能力嗎報告委員你們有這個能力嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
15442.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
15457.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
報告委員您剛才所問的部分是檢疫的部分那我剛才所說明是食品衛生安全當下如果查驗我們先從第一個階段為什麼已經兩個禮拜還是沒有辦法給我們的民眾講清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
15459.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
15472.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
誰可以回答這個問題農業部在目前美國如果使用跟加工的話他會在今年的七月之後到明年之間他才會進 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
15474.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
15497.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
不管進不進 政府已經告訴我們 你二月份公告的嘛對 我們已經準備配套措施 已經我們跟衛福部兩個部會兩個部一起來 正在討論當中很快就會定案正在討論當中很快就會定案 所以還沒定案不是 因為七月才會進來那昨天 前天 大前天 這幾天告訴我們的叫我們放棄一顆一顆檢查 會落實嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
15499 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
15525.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
做得來嗎沒問題啊 這個可以做啊這個沒問題一顆一顆檢查沒問題花芽的進到加工廠不是這個好幾億顆不是這樣因為花芽率只有0.6一顆一顆檢查是嗎沒有錯啊進到加工廠的話進到加工廠的部分過去是只有0.6就是進口的0.6才會有花芽檢到才會有花芽那檢出來0.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
15526.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
15542.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
到這個指定加工廠之後我們就會去請這個加工廠他要有監視器然後這個封條要貼回頭他現在可以給你遴選的做兩家有來申請的但目前還沒有所以你一定要詳實讓民眾到目前為止我們只有一個要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
15544.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
15569.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
食安的問題絕對不能退讓對啦你告訴我們目前的方案你的人力夠嗎我們要請問這個在加工廠在挑選用機器挑啦由他們加工廠派專員然後用監視器機器還是要有人去看有人去操作啊專人監督啦所以我們一個結論也就是食安的部分一定 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
15569.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
15585.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
是零容忍 不可以馬虎第二個 我們絕對不贊成整櫃裡頭有馬鈴薯發芽的因為其他的部分不是那一顆跳掉就好了其他的交互感染的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
15587.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
15601.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
那個是龍奎減或者是橡木感染的話報委員只要他那一批有發芽的我們都會去抽驗只要有驗出龍奎減200ppm以上都會退運 整批都會退運是 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
15602.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
15627.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
所以本席還在這邊還是強調校園的食安我們絕對是一定要把關國人的食安我們也一定要強制安全你們到目前為止所有的配套沒有一個部門可以說明清楚所以讓國人非常的憂心所以我們希望你剛剛又給我們透露一個現在才農業部跟衛福部在討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
15628.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
15656.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
你們的方案 本級個人希望你們要好好的去把你的方案弄出來你們真的 你要推讓 你還是要把關因為至少你的食品做出來 你的薯條薯片你正式把它貼上嘛我這個來源 是有經過這個櫃子裡頭的是有這個發芽的部分 含有發芽部分所剔除的這個原食材讓民眾可以安心嘛 可不可以這麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
15658.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
15685.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
可不可以這麼做 那個是後市場 後市場對啊 可不可以這麼做 但是我也不可不可以這麼做 我花牙的 我花牙根本進不到加工廠啊花牙就被挑掉了 她的錢無期嘛所以到現在還是講不清楚把你們的方案趕快提出來 謝謝楊雄一委員 跟以前一模一樣啦因為我們等下委員會有臨時提案請列席的委員把握時間四分鐘 鍾嘉斌 鍾嘉斌 鍾嘉斌委員不在接下來請郭益晴委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
15693.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
15711.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
好 謝謝主席喔 那有請農業部的房間署還有衛福部的食藥署衛福部莊次長 食藥署蔡副署長以及農業部胡次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
15714.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
15732.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
瑋恩好我想這個馬鈴薯的問題大家問了很多我就另外一個問題也是我一直在追的這個問題我想今天剛好兩個部會的這個組則或單位其實都在包含我們的房間署包含我們的學校署都在我剛剛才從8樓上來那剛剛也質詢了這個衛福部部長雖然我們這個動物新鑰是7月1號我們確定是之前要註銷了 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
15736.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
15760.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
這已經確定註銷了但是現場我收到許多來自一線的動物醫師獸醫師他們還是在跟我說目前已經有一些所謂的藥廠已經開始傾向所謂的選擇性的供貨也就是說他們開始在擔憂過去我人用的藥品我現在可以用的但是現在已經開始他們因為法規的不清楚因為配套的不清楚因為我們的管理機制不清楚所以他們現在開始藥廠限縮了 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
15762.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
15783.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
也會影響到整個所有的這個毛小孩他們在就醫的一個權利那我就要請問了如果就像剛剛這個衛福部部長他提供給我的這個資訊我們今天早上呢一進辦公室就說了這個資訊他說我們回到所謂的這個用藥的部分我們回到緊急用藥的平台但是我請教一下我們的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
15786.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
15791.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
食藥署你知道這個用藥平台申請流程大概要多久嗎可以告訴我要多久嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
15793.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
15817.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
如果我今天毛小孩躺在那邊要等著急診請問等到所謂的緊急用藥要申請的平台請問大概完整下來要多久兩到三週對不對謝謝委員請問一下我的毛小孩躺在那邊我兩天都等不下去我兩個小時都不能等我要等兩到三週我是不是直接打給寵物殯葬業比較快 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
15820.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
15824.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
謝謝委員一直關注這個問題我們也在檢討就是說我下午就會在立法院開一個一線的獸醫師他們來到現場反應這樣子的一個困境因為這個問題三天兩頭就會出現 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
15840.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
15855.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
負面表列願不願意為什麼我講正面表列跟負面表列現在我們採用的是正面表列正面表列我舉例100種可以用但100種之外的我每一個都要跑流程每一個如果新加進來的都要申請對不對負面表列是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
15856.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
15870.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
負面表列我只要匡列不管是食藥署還有獸醫師他們有共同的共識我把不能用的先匡進來剩下的讓他們可以回歸到他們可以有用藥的自主權可以有調劑權這個部分的負面表列有這麼難嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
15872.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
15879.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
報告委員這涉及到人用藥的部分到底它的母數有多大我們不知道然後731張有1萬多張的藥證所以這個的母數太大而且主要是在人用藥這一點的話他們專業的理解如果大家都有這樣子的一個本位主義的考量人藥就是衛福部嘛那動物用藥就是我們農業部嘛是不是這樣我們兩邊是這樣嘛 中間要設一群 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
15902.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
15930.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
中間這一群的空裝級請問到底誰要來負責下午我們來座談會好好的聽一聽可以嗎可以請聽一線的聲音嗎不然這種事情三天兩頭就會出現我的辦公室已經疲於奔命了因為整個立法院大概只有我在追這件事情但問題是我們有三百四十萬隻的寵物我有兩百多萬的四組的一個家庭我擔心的還有一線生育師他們沒有用藥自主藥師公會他們還要再加進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
15931.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
15942.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
一個莫名其妙的一個角色我們到底這件事情可以撐多久啊是的 謝謝謝謝委員真的打從心裡真的謝謝委員的關注跟協助那現在731項已經到731項那731項公告為就整個轉為動保用藥所以大概轉為動保 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
15951.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
15977.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
動保用藥但是因為我們大家都知道動保用藥我們的這個族群是比較小的所以藥廠開始有考量啦過去這動保的用藥我有的是可以用人藥來做代替嘛比方說輸液就是嘛但現在因為這個限制下去了我人藥變成獸醫師他不能取用人藥所以我就說負面表列才能夠根本解決這樣的問題我們一起來研議好不好各方的意見我們都尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
15977.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
15978.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
現在開始處理臨時提案供應案請議事委員宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
16007.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
16036.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
按由原農業部動植物防疫檢疫署於115年2月6日公告美國產加工用馬鈴薯輸入檢疫條件將加工用與先食用分流管理就前者規定發芽、發霉、腐爛者將直送指定加工廠並於選別階段整顆氣質銷毀微查該新這支相關配套卻複製缺乳恐損及民眾食品安全諸如農業部雖予詢答時表示現有17家加工業者 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
16037.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
16053.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
違確未能說明已申請為指定加工廠之數量與檢疫量能,遑論放行、押運等配套機制,再者就指定加工廠之管理。農業部固認為得以《植物防疫檢疫法》第17條第1項及《統法》第24條第1項第6款規定,處3萬至15萬元罰還,然該規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
16061.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
16078.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
乃細課與輸入人或其代理人申請與完成檢疫義務而非對指定加工廠之管理而有勿用法令之餘此外對加工用馬鈴薯之查驗比率行政院卓院長榮泰曾稱我們會整櫃檢查每一顆拿出來檢查據農業部卻抵觸 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
16081.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
16109.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
卓院長榮泰之宣示及其對民眾食品安全之重視警院每批抽驗60%顯著商行政院關係食品安全之政策方針原要求農業部於7日內就上開問題向立法院財政委員會提出加工用馬鈴薯進口檢疫配套作為包括但不限於指定加工廠之資格條件管理規定法院依據及查驗比例之精進作為之書面報告提案人 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
16110.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
16134.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
李燕秀 羅明采 林思敏 陳玉珍 劉淑冰宣讀完畢好 請問一下對於這個臨時提案那個陳玉珍委員我覺得是不是我們應該要寫說按照這個卓中泰院長的宣誓就是說進櫃的時候整櫃檢查每一顆拿出來檢查照這個方式去執行嘛這是院長的莊重的宣誓吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
16135.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
16160.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
我們要求他執行要這樣做嘛報告的時候是不是有請他寫這樣子就是到時候進來的時候每一櫃喔整櫃檢查每一棵拿出來檢查這樣國人才能放心嘛 不然就不要進口啊好 呃 主委院長的文是那個農業部來對不對 主委院長是說整櫃檢查每一棵拿出來檢查這非常好的做法 事實上應該是要讓他不能進來啦對啊 發芽的 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
16166.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
16192.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
要改成發芽的爸爸主席院長他所講的是在因為有發芽所以我們進到加工廠那個我們是絕對要怎麼可以進到加工廠再來啊你要去那個加工廠那個加工廠還是在境外還沒有進到那個如果說有發芽有花莓或者是有腐爛的話那個挑掉一棵都不能進加工廠啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
16192.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
16218.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
所以即使到接工廠 其實他還是在保稅區裡面還沒有入境你挑掉那些不表示其他沒有挑掉沒有被感染啊我是看獨立專家寫的所以因為我們在邊境上的時候0.6%所以你們要照這個組長說每一顆都要檢查喔對啊 他是有發芽的啊你沒有檢查怎麼知道沒有發芽啊就是因為檢查檢查到了所以我們才要每一顆啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
16219.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
16240.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
一櫃裡頭有一顆就要全部整櫃那是不能入境喔那是在保稅區裡面的加工廠保稅區裡頭會有加工廠是吧保稅區現在就有加工廠有一些加工廠本身就有加工所以如果沒有在保稅區裡頭的加工廠就沒有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
16242.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
16258.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
我們會要求跟保稅區一樣的這個要求的標準不是不是他都進不來怎麼要求咧不是因為現在的狀況是他已經進不來了嘛照你的說法怎麼要求咧不是有一些保稅區就是在加工廠裡面咧就是他經過灌入署如果有的加工廠沒有在保稅區內你怎麼要求那個我們會 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
16259.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
16284.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
要求他們全部都要用監視器所以你已經讓他入境了啊這樣子你還是讓他入境啊那個還沒有我們還沒有簽發沒有在保稅區的加工廠你要怎麼讓他我們要求他完全跟保稅區一樣的這個條件所以還是有入境啊因為他沒在加工廠那個沒有入境因為我們檢疫症沒有發的話他不能去做加工對他東西已經入境但在那個標籤上還沒有入境啦對 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
16286.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
16313.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
所以實體已經入境但是在法律層級上他還沒有入境而且我們沒有簽發檢疫統一書這樣的話他就不能夠你們為什麼一定要讓發芽的進來啊為什麼不就讓他在海外就不要讓他進口為什麼要那種檢驗能力你們太辛苦了吧因為那個是加工在加工廠你們為什麼要讓發芽進來你們沒有那麼你們的量能沒有那麼大我們今天一個牛呢你都沒有預算可以幫我們做你有多少預算可以做這個事啊你有多少預算檢查每一顆馬鈴薯 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
16314.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
16342.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
這個是因為我們每一年的需要量很多而且那個發芽率很低對啊 基因要量很多你就沒有那麼多人可以檢查你的量能做什麼那發芽率很低你如果說一顆檢到整個給人家退回去的話在國際上的貿易談判上的話有很多的國家就說你這樣我也要求你這樣所以你不會檢到一顆就把它檢批退回去就對了是不是過去 目前在先時用也是這樣子不會就對了所以如果有一顆發芽你也不會整顆退回去喔在先時用的是這樣子喔就是這樣子喔發芽也是可以進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
16343.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
16359.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
不可以 發芽也不可以進加工廠來意思就是說講清楚一點如果整顆檢查到有一顆發芽的你們整櫃每一顆拿出來檢查對不對不是 先知的就退了就退了但是如果它是用加工用的加工用的而檢到有一顆它發芽的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
16361.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
16367.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
那如果是加工的檢查到有一顆有發芽的你就整櫃每一顆都會檢查對不對這個檢查量能是由你們檢查還是由加工廠來檢查 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
16377.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
16399.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
所以你是要給民間 所以這個檢查的責任是賦予民間嘛不是你們公務部門檢查嘛 對不對不是 我們去監督 我們也會派人去啊你們就是監督 但是用加工廠來檢查就對了 對所以我們的食安要依賴在加工廠的道德良心上面喔不是 不是 這個這個 媛媛你不要講這樣 講得很害羞沒有沒有 沒有 不信不信 大家都去抗議加工廠不是抗議加工廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
16401.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
16420.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
你們要監督嘛你們沒有量人嘛你們要監督我相信你們會監督嘛那加工廠一顆一顆檢查嘛對不對好但是你們不一定有你們沒有量人一顆一顆就是說工部門沒有量人一顆一顆檢查但是私部門可以這樣做對不對所以我們當然是要依賴私部門要有這個良心啊不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
16421.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].end |
16429.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].text |
那個會有監視器監督啦而且我們到最後看他這樣分類是不是清楚可以的話我們才會核發檢疫症啦就是他監督的那個能力那大家還有沒有看到的時候剛剛有睡了覺眼睛沒有睜開那一顆就跑過去不會啦不會不會不會嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
16439.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].end |
16457.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].text |
一進來的話我們都是消費者我也可能輸到委員也可能輸到所以你為什麼要讓他進來呢你為什麼要增加自己的麻煩呢就不要讓他進來啊就全部退回去為什麼要分先時跟加工呢就全部退回去不就一了百了一勞永逸嗎其實就是這一次這樣分類以後以後把篩選的責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
16461.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].end |
16478.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].text |
放在加工廠 那就依賴他的道德良心嘛我相信他們有良心 我不是說他們沒有良心不是 那個要在指定地區 指定地區不是說他隨便在他的房間裡面就婚我知道 我知道 就是按照一顆一顆這樣過去嘛他有時候也有疏忽嘛 也不一定啊因為檢疫率百分之百啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
16479.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].end |
16501.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].text |
但是我們會去做最後的...你們會去做我知道那你們就不會百分之百如果我們直接把他退回去我們不就沒有擔心這回事嗎因為雙方的談判到時候他們也可以這樣報復我們為什麼要做這種談判呢為什麼不做國內的食安最重要呢你可以把金門牛說距離位置金門牛地理位置都可以不用進來了你台灣已經見到粉島了我們就先把關倒退金門的口蹄壓不爽跟我們說的口蹄壓不爽 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
16503.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].end |
16512.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].text |
我不反對你們我不反對我不反對嚴格我不反對嚴格我支持嚴格我支持嚴格你馬鈴薯要給我嚴格嘛為什麼全台灣的食安會可以不要嚴格我沒有反對你阻止喔我說你要輔導嘛我不反對我不反對真的我不反對嚴格嚴格是食安我非常支持那馬鈴薯不重要嗎很重要啊加工產品不重要嗎都很重要啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].start |
16528.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].end |
16554.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].text |
有一顆有犯就是退回去啊談判談不完回去再談啊因為這兩國談的因為我們馬鈴薯也有出口啦是嗎 再談嘛國會也會要求我們同樣的條件國會給你壓力你不能回去再談嗎我們要給你壓力啊這國際的談判不是所以就是因為你們沒有辦法談判說老百姓可以承受這個風險嘛大家都很重視食品安全但是要尊重專業啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].start |
16554.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].end |
16559.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].text |
尊重專業就說老百姓要承受這個風險就對了你也是要老百姓承受風險嘛絕對是沒有風險的狀況之下我們才會去答應沒有風險你保證沒有風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].start |
16568.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].end |
16586.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].text |
最低的風險啦最低的風險啦最低的風險不是沒有風險嘛對不對但是沒有風險是我們共同的目標啊沒有風險就是讓他不要進來就完全沒有風險嘛是不是你們不要那麼辛苦嗎你們幹嘛要那麼辛苦你們幹嘛要那麼辛苦增加你們的量能你們很辛苦啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
16587.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].end |
16605.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].text |
談不好的人回去再好好談到好嘛國會給你壓力嘛 老百姓給你壓力嘛我們的意見我們非常尊重我們也會帶回去做在整個政策上的那個郁真偉我覺得他開放2月6號這個公告回到經濟委員會看這個公告是不是到時候回到經濟委員會去做審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
16607.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].end |
16609.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].text |
因為這個不屬於在我們財務會但是我們財務會的部分我們今天就是做這個臨時提案但是它這個公告的內容是屬於在經濟委員會裡面那如果我們回到經濟委員會把它拉回來做審查因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].start |
16622.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].end |
16651.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].text |
從今天的這個專案報告還有大家質詢的結果仍然就對於他未來能夠在加工的地點去做怎麼樣的審查把責任都給民間還有地方的稽查人員有沒有這麼多的人力其實這個對實案來說還是有很大的漏洞跟恐懼那這個我想國人自己國人都看得到這整件事情我們今天就先就這個臨時提案看在文字上大家有什麼樣的意見我們先來去做調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].start |
16654.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].end |
16678.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].text |
文字上你哪裡要做調整是文字上事實上我們已經跟助理已經有交換過意見你稍微念一下你希望做什麼樣的調整有修正的部分就是在提案的部分第六行現有17加工業者事實上是17進口業者那個加工是不是把它改成進口那另外再往下的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].start |
16683.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].end |
16706.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].text |
倒數第六行第七行稱我們會整櫃檢查每一棵拿出來檢查的前面是不是就加上三個字花芽的等一下這個前面是行政院左院長農太誠稱左院長有說花芽的這幾個字嗎他如果有你就可以寫啊有啊他的意思就是這樣你不能改他的話這腎上作恨給他加字喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
16707.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].end |
16723.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].text |
他就是發芽進到那個加工廠挑的時候我們是租客董事長這樣子啊因為這是左院長講的話你不能給他改啊他有說發芽的有沒有程度檢查當時我想補允你都不知道他的意思就是在加工廠裡面啊他有沒有這樣講 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
16725.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].end |
16745.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].text |
主任長有沒有這樣講主任長是我們會整櫃檢查每一顆都拿出來檢查你不能把主任長的話你怎麼可以自己解釋一下全世界在海關沒有百分之百每一顆所以你說的是主任長說的話是做不到的我們現在只是引述他的話他的意思就是花芽的啦花芽的我們會你先應對他的意思嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].start |
16745.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].end |
16766.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].text |
我知道啊 我知道卓院長就是他就是這個意思不是在海關那個一億多顆有多少可是我們每個老百姓聽起來都覺得他不是只是指發芽的啊如果會把他解釋成委員一直認為是那個事全世界沒有人這樣做市長 這個是卓院長講話我們只是引述他的話嘛 對不對我們只是引述他 我們並不是要改他的話這樣都會誤解啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].start |
16768.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].end |
16791.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].text |
因為全世界沒有那他就必須在總質詢讓大家知道其實次長你不需要堅持因為卓院長講的話其實都有錄音帶都有影音現在在網路上在電視上國人都看得到那我覺得因為你們農業部其實有很多其實去做說明你們用力自己去做說明說卓院長的意思是什麼那但是就不要去改卓院長那個次長我提出一個建議就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].start |
16793.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].end |
16820.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].text |
院長的字不要改他的話語不要改但是你在農業部這邊的就可以說僅願於每批於邊境檢疫上面每批有發芽的這做抽驗啊不是這個所有的所有進口的所有進口的我們會去抽六成啦會去抽六成不是發芽的我們才抽就每一批要抽百分之六進口的兩成是每一顆嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].start |
16822.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].end |
16824.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].text |
所以我就講前面要加三個字花芽的我們會 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].start |
16845.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].end |
16871.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].text |
市長這我來幫你我到時候有質詢我問一下院長他是不是講的是發芽的讓他來自己解釋他的話好不好你不要幫他解釋嘛你不要堅持因為我們就叫卓院長因為你要提報告報告的說明你們再去說明我們的話你不要改好不好我們的臨時代你不要改但是因為我們只是要一個書面報告回覆你再報告回覆你可以說明清楚卓院長的意思到底是什麼好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].start |
16872.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].end |
16897.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].text |
那後面還有一個請願邊境檢疫上十批查六批每十批查六批就是百分之六十啦百分之六十啦那個那個所以那個郁正兒他就是沒有百分之百嘛好不好就是沒有百分之百對啊然後接下來是不是再加一句話各位委員請我大概說明一下這個在 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].start |
16901.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].end |
16917.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].text |
在這一個逗點之後再加上如有花芽的逐一檢查哪裡就是我們要加進來就是現在就是這個每10批抽菸6批那後面逗點之後如有花芽的逐一檢查 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].start |
16920.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].end |
16936.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].text |
市長 剛才我質詢的時候你就是這樣回覆我我跟你講 你的回覆你就乾脆因為我這個就是要一個書面 完整的說明跟報告針對今天所有委員對於這個馬鈴薯進口的這個修正的條件你就在你的報告裡面說明清楚因為你剛剛 你剛剛就是這樣回覆我你現在又來修正你的說法跟我的 我覺得沒有必要 我就是要一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].start |
16942.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].end |
16963.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].text |
完整的說明報告我們今天不是要做一個決議我們今天還需要做決議說那個沒有以前不能進口我們今天沒有要做決議就需要一個書面報告餒對我們會交啊七天內我們會交我現在是怕說因為各位委員名字都在列在上面了你如果上面所寫的這個組決議到十年後二十年後被我們的後代子孫笑啊覺得啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].start |
16970.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].end |
16986.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].text |
所以我就說 把他修正好一點的話 問政品質很好啊所以你剛剛說的是 左院長說的整櫃檢查每一顆拿出來檢查會不會後代子孫笑嘛那你要去跟他講啊 市長市長 你這樣在羞辱我們財政委員會的委員喔你指的是說 我們這樣子寫我們剛剛執行的委員會不會國人笑不是 把它改成更好一點 更精準一點啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].start |
16994.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].end |
17015.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].text |
因為我剛剛就是這樣回覆你們卓榮泰院長就是這樣子講的我一個字都沒有增加剛才我在質詢的時候你也是這樣回覆的我也沒有增加你的字我也沒有減少你的字你現在告訴我說我剛剛質詢會不會被笑如果是這樣的話我就收回啦好不好因為現在快一點了大家都 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].start |
17016.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].end |
17034.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].text |
我只是因為怕一點兩點我今天耗到五點我也跟你耗到在這裡市長就是發芽的那三個字不要加啦因為那三個字是左院長說的嘛我們前面有寫行政院左院長陳稱嘛那如果他要解釋是發芽的我們可以再問他讓他有機會解釋嘛你不要自己幫他詮釋嘛左院長說沒有這個決心每一顆要檢查啊你太小看他為國人捍衛食安的決心 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].start |
17048.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].end |
17052.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].text |
第17家進口業者其他都不改?其他都不改就照原來的臨時提案來就照這樣好不好有沒有意見好沒有意見那我們就照這個臨時提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].start |
17076.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].end |
17083.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].text |
報告跟說明及答詢完畢委員質詢未答覆或請補充資訊請相關機關於一週內已書面答覆委員另有要求期限者從其所定 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].start |
17105.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].end |
17111.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].text |
中央民國115年度中央政府總預算有關主計總署審計部審計部台北市審計處審計部新北市審計處審計部桃園市審計處審計部台中市審計處審計部台南市審計處審計部高雄市審計處第27款直轄市及縣市政府第三項一般性補助款 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].start |
17129.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].end |
17145.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].text |
財政部主管第一目財政部第二目國庫署第13項一般性補助款其他第一至第八目災害準備金第二準備金均另則其繼續審查本次會議委員若有相關預算提案請 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].start |
17147.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].end |
17165.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].text |
今天下午五点前送到我们财政委员会会议议事人员收件本次会议议程已进行完毕让不在场的委员补题书面咨询一并列入记录刊登公报并请议事人员协助处理我们今天散会谢谢大家大家辛苦了 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].start |
17182.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].end |
17183.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].text |
谢谢大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].start |
17214.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].end |
17215.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].text |
好來你按在左邊 |