| IVOD_ID |
17371 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17371 |
| 日期 |
2026-04-22 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-23-9 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
9 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2026-04-22T08:35:03+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-04-22T12:53:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
04:17:57 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/f826c2e4afc302dd7a173d75aaeaa1338e5526a8fc169b6eb1d480c4e0b4ea52fdf628e7dd7a14755ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-04-22T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查(一)委員葛如鈞等20人及(二)委員黃健豪等18人分別擬具「電信管理法第三十六條條文修正草案」案。二、審查(一)委員陳雪生等23人及(二)委員傅崐萁等25人分別擬具「有線廣播電視法第十條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「有線廣播電視法第十條及第五十八條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「有線廣播電視法第五十八條條文修正草案」案及(五)委員黃健豪等18人擬具「有線廣播電視法第十條及第五十八條條文修正草案」案。三、審查(一)委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「廣播電視法第五條之一及第四十四條之二條文修正草案」案及(二)委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「廣播電視法第四十四條之二條文修正草案」案。四、處理114年度中央政府總預算附屬單位預算關於國家通訊傳播委員會主管預算凍結案計13案。【開會事由一至三僅進行詢答；開會事由二第(五)案，如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:35:03 - 12:53:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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Zither Harp |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1504.915 |
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| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
出席委員已足法令人數我們現在開會請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第十一屆第五會期交通委員會第八次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國一百一十五年四月二十日星期一上午九時至十二時地點本院紅樓二零一會議室出席委員萬美玲等十四人列席委員洪玉祥等二人列席官員國家運輸安全調查委員會主任委員林信德等 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1533.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1542.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
主席黃昭吉委員建豪報告事項宣讀上次會議議事錄決定議事錄確定邀請國家運輸安全調查委員會列席報告業務概況並備質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1545.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1572.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
本日會議由國家運輸安全調查委員會主任委員林信德報告後暨由委員洪孟凱等14人提出質詢均經主任委員林信德及相關人員分別予以答覆決定一報告及詢答完畢二委員洪玉祥所提書面質詢列入記錄並刊登公報三委員於質詢中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答覆部分請國家運輸安全調查委員會盡速以書面答覆散會宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1577.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1602.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
好 那個我們意識度稍後再來確定那我們現在先介紹在場委員翁曉琳委員葛如居委員以及現在列席的官員國家通訊傳播委員會代理主委陳崇樹主委數位部部長林一進部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1605.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1633.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
再來是國家統一傳播委員會主任秘書黃文哲同樣是NCC綜合規劃處處長溫俊瑜基礎設施處處長梁柏舟平台事業管理處處長詹奕蓮電台與內容事務處處長林慧玲網際網路傳播辦公室參事監主任詹文旭法律事務處副處長謝佩穎 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1637.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1658.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
主計師主任陳月淳在速發部資源管理師司長曾文芳任性建設師司長牛杏仁數位策略師司長蔡壽權法治處副署長吳怡倫數位產業署通訊傳播組副組長陳惠惠 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1664.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1690.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
經營管會政企局證券發行組副組長陳湘瑩內政部民政司專委戴淑黃經濟部商業發展署副署長劉雅娟法部專委邱離芬行政院主計總署公務預算處專委林培源基金預算處專委戴群芳 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1693.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1713.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
好 我們再補充一下在場委員 萬美玲委員到現場我們現在處理報告事項二 有關114年度國家通訊傳播委員會主管預算解凍案計時案 請議事人員宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1716.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1733.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
報告事項二處理一百一十四年度中政府總預算附屬單位預算關於國家通訊傳播委員會主管預算凍結案計時案國家通訊傳播委員會函檢送通訊傳播監督管理基金一至七一新增決議第一項修理保養及保護費預算凍結一百萬元案 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1734.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1756.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
二新增決議第二項專業服務費之辦理行動通信及有限電視採取案件輸送費及法律諮詢費預算凍結十分之一案三新增決議第三項服務費用向下推展費預算凍結五分之一案四新增決議第六項雜項設備租金預算凍結十分之一案五新增決議第七項服務費用之一般服務費預算凍結十分之一案 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1757.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1783.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
六 新增決議第八項盤點亞太經濟合作會議會員經濟體推動符合性評鑒程序現況遭遇困難及嚴提深化合作方案委託研究預算凍結十分之一案七 新增決議第九項傳播事務監理計畫預算凍結十分之一案國家通訊傳播委員會函檢送有限廣播電視事業發展基金八至十八 新增決議第一項有限電視普及發展與災害復建補助計畫預算凍結六百萬元案 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1786.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1802.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
9.新增決議第二項有限電視普及發展與災害復健補助計畫向下捐助補助與獎助預算凍結十分之一案10.新增決議第三項捐助補助與獎助超高畫質與數位應用加值服務建置費預算凍結十分之一案 宣讀完畢好 宣讀完畢那我們做以下決定報告四項 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1811.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1820.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那個我們剛剛的這個報告事項二的部分我們待我們本位委員到現場到期之後我們再進行後續的這個決定喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1831.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
1851.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那我們現在接著進行本日的會議討論事項我們先審查電信管理法有限廣播電視法廣播電視法修正案及處理114年度國家通訊傳播委員會主管預算解凍案G3案我們先進行提案說明請提案委員說明提案要旨我們第一位我們先請翁曉琳委員提案說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
1860.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
1880.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
主席還有在場的官員委員還有媒體朋友大家好我首先先感謝黃金豪召委排案審查有限廣播電視法和廣播電視法的修正案那今天我也提出了兩個修正案核心的目的其實只有一個就是要讓廣電三法關於黨政軍退出媒體條款的規範內容邏輯是一致的把不合時宜的處罰機制修正過來 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
1885.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
1888.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
其實大家很清楚過去黨政軍退出媒體的法規因為對於間接投資的定義不清楚而且處罰對象也不合理那麼他不處罰投資持股的 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
1898.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
1922.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
政府政党反而是处罚被投资的媒体业者也就是把政府政党违法的账算在媒体业者的头上那么导致实务上也出现很多不合理的处罚那这对于媒体经营业者来说是非常不公平而且也影响产业的公平的发展那今年1月30号的时候本院呢已经三读通过了卫星广播电视法的修正案 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
1922.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
1928.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那麼當時我們也採納了NCC的對岸明確規範了黨政軍退出媒體的法則也就是第五條及第五十條那麼我們將處罰對象從媒體經營業者然後轉為落實監督違規的政府與政黨那法規要處罰的是真正具有控制力的政府政黨和特定人員而不是懲罰被投資的媒體 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
1947.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
1961.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
但是這樣修法利益良善了對媒體業者有利的法案行政院卓榮泰至今都還沒有附屬這個法案賴清德總統也沒有一線來公布這部法律那嚴重影響到損害業者的權益雖然說民進黨政府違法違憲擺爛不公布法律但是呢這不會影響立法院要撥亂反正修改惡法的態度和決心 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
1976.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2003.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
有盡於衛廣業者、有廣業者和廣電業者這三種媒體本質是一致的那麼廣電三法黨政軍推出媒體的精神和規範邏輯也是向來是一致的因此法規本來就不應該有差別待遇那本席這次提出的這個法案的內容就是直接引用去年已經通過經過NCC認可的條文目的就是要讓這三部法律的標準是全部同步 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2005.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2030.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
這件事情在去年這個法案在去年的交通委員會審查物管法的時候大家其實都已經討論得很清楚了那麼朝野也有共識那為了要讓產業有更明確的遊戲規則並且落實我們已經達成的修法方向那讓我們就盡快的把這三部法規補齊調整一致完成最後的一里路那最後也謝謝希望所有的委員都能夠支持這項修法以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2035.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2044.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
好 我們謝謝翁小玲委員然後因為我們現在在場的本委員會已經打法定人數請問一下我們各位委員對議事錄有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2046.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2066.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
有意見嗎沒有好沒有意見議事部確定那我們現在處理剛剛的報告事項二做以下決定報告事項預算解凍案114年度中央政府總預算附屬單位預算案決議個案書面報告已送達均予以備查提報院會好那麼接下來請葛如軍委員進行提案說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2075.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2098.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
謝謝主席各位在場的立委同僚以及列席官員全國關心衛星通訊發展的朋友們各位媒體記者朋友大家好今天要向大家說明為什麼我們要提出電信管理法第36條修正案原因非常清楚就是台灣的通訊韌性不能等而且不能再孤注一擲不能單押在海底電纜上我們應該要一起全面提升台灣的通訊韌性 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2099.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2125.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
這件事非常具有必要性和急迫性根據國防部印製的當危機來臨時的小局書啊台灣在面臨軍事威脅的時候可能出現的重要情境之一就是重要基礎設施受損多數海底電纜遭到破壞導致大規模的網路癱瘓而我國目前的通訊卻高度的依賴海底電纜強化通訊的韌性早就已經不是技術的問題而是國安的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2126.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2151.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
這次修法的目的就是要讓台灣的通訊架構從過去單一依賴的路徑走向更安全更多倍元的多元網路本席要在此嚴正的提醒世界各國早就已經為了新的衛星科技打開法規的大門台灣已經沒有時間也沒有條件在原地踏步了今天NCC的書面報告特別提到了日本 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2152.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2172.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
韓國、荷蘭、菲律賓、越南等等的國家為了強化山區、離島、偏鄉、海上的通訊覆蓋包括搜救以及急難甚至國家安全的一個狀態都已經紛紛透過法規鬆綁或者專案認定的方式和STARLINK合作推出手機直連衛星的服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2173.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2194.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
甚至進一步將衛星通訊視為災害應變的重要的一環換句話說日本可以 韓國可以 荷蘭可以 菲律賓可以 越南可以為什麼台灣不可以問題就在於我國現行的電信管理法第36條對設置使用電信資源的公眾電信網路者 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2194.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2216.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
人設有董事長國籍以及外國人持股比例的限制這使得外國通訊業者即使有意來台提供服務也很難直接進入台灣市場法規如果不調整台灣就算知道要提升通訊韌性多元衛星也會永遠被法規制度卡關本席要再次強調此次提出的修法版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2217.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2237.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
並非毫無根據的全面開放而是授權主管機關專案審查專案核准也就是說只有在主管機關綜合考量我國公眾電信網路安全電信資源使用以及市場發展國家安全以及公共利益以後確認沒有不利影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2238.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2267.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
才可以放寬現行限制這不是放棄把關而是讓政府在保守國家安全的前提之下替台灣爭取更多的選擇更多的備援更高的通訊韌性今天其他國家已經把門打開積極的引進新一代的衛星通訊技術台灣如果還在用過去的法規把國際衛星的多元服務擋在門外受損的將不會是特定公司而是我們中華民國的國家安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2268.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2289.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
所以這一次的修法是為了讓台灣真正的建立陸海空三萬一體的通訊韌性的架構讓我們在平時有更多的選擇在災時有更多的備援在非常時期能夠維持國家的運作我們所有的一切包含要了解前線的戰事要運用我們的國防的系統都需要網路 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2290.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2313.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
多元的衛星的通訊所以不只是陸海空甚至包含太空都應該在我們的範圍當中別的國家可以台灣沒有任何理由不行我們再次誠摯的呼籲朝野各個政黨行政部門與社會各界共同支持這一次的修法讓台灣的通訊安全通訊韌性真正跟得上時代也跟上國家安全的需要謝謝大家的支持 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2316.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2327.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
好 謝謝葛如君委員的提案說明那我們接下來請列席機關報告請這個NCC國家中心傳播委員會陳崇樹代理主委報告 法案跟凍結案一起報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2343.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2369.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
主席各位委員各位女士先生大家好那今天應邀列席貴委員會就審查委員葛玉君等20人擬拒定管法36條在委黃建豪等18人擬拒定管法36條草案提出本會意見敬請指教國家通訊傳播委員會對委員所提各修正草案的回應說明提案重點請參閱書面資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2372.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2398.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
本會議件一 現行電信管理法外置限制的說明現行電信管理法第36條第4項到第6項對外置限制對象為設置使用電信資源之公眾電信網路者考量使用電信資源的公眾電信網路攸關國內網路安全資源利用等公共利益而無線電頻率屬於稀有資源涉及電信網路訊號數位軌跡等記錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2402.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2423.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
已由我國人民取得及經營較為妥適故設置此類公共電信網路者的組織型態及負責人資格有特別規範除法律另有規定外應符電信管理法第36條第4項及第5項分別規定董事長應具有中華民國國籍及股份公司的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2424.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2453.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
以使能承担责任令也要维持一定比例的本国资本限制比例与电信法时期相同外资直接持股比例不得超过49%直接加间接不得超过60%这个也是符合我国当年加入WTO入会服务业承诺表对于外国人持股的最低标准二目前国际卫星在台湾落地得提供的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2454.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2482.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
國立衛星業者在符合我國電信管理法36條的外資規定下目前在臺落地的提供服務並遵循相關電信事業登記申請無線電頻率申請營運計畫及網路設計劃核准以及通訊監察機關認可等規定國立通訊衛星業者也可以跟我國電信業者洽談合作由我國電信事業提供衛星通訊服務及遵守電信法鎖定的義務 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2484.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2501.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
例如中華電信與OneWeb合作提供衛星通訊服務模式就是外國衛星公司他僅提供容量供本地登記的電信事業從事衛星通訊服務且為直接提供衛星通訊服務給台灣的終端用戶使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2502.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2523.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
由本地業者申請使用頻率外國電信通信公司可以不需要申請使用頻率及登記為我國電信事業並在電信詐騙防制的部分由合作的我國電信事業負責辦理三 國立外信業者在臺灣營運的法尊營業部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2525.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2553.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
委員提案修訂電信管理法36條僅系放寬外資比例國際衛星通訊業者如果想要在臺灣經營還需要辦理事項配合的義務有以下幾點第一因為國際衛星通訊業者不透過代理商則需申請平均使用取得電信資源一電信管理法需要辦理電信失業登記而且相關公司登記還需要仍然要依公司法來辦理二 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2554.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2576.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
國際微信業者在臺落地提供服務除了需要符合電信管理法36條外資限制規定外還需要遵循有關定時4月登記、申請無線電頻率、申請營運計畫、網路事務計畫及通訊檢查機關認可此外還要需負擔一般義務、特別義務及指定法定義務等法尊義務 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2578.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2606.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
這包括通訊監察義務提供緊急電話遵守頻率秩序配合緊急動員等又外國的公司如果登記使用電信資源的之後NCC依據特別義務的電信事業任命標準認定業者應要負責的特別義務如定型化契約服務品質終者服務通知加入電信消費爭議處理中心等 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2607.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2626.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
三國際衛星通訊業者辦理電信事業登記後他的訊物如果是經過國外電信網路接接到我國的國際交換機最後由我國通訊網路連接到國內的售貨用戶的話此類通訊是為國際來話必須導入國際來話攔阻機制如果他的訊物是國內化物則應該比照現行防炸的機制來辦理四 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2637.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2663.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
NCC為電信事業監理機關涉及事業治理與消費者保護等且與電信事業的營運計畫管理有關事項應配合本會的規定辦理五目前開放外資限制的國家如日本、荷蘭、菲律賓、越南等仍然要求其應該在該國設立公司或設置Gateway以落實通訊監察六 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2666.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2678.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
如果你放寬使用設置電信資源的公共電信網路者他的董事長國籍及外國人持股比例就放寬的標準放寬的範圍應該要具體明確使得合理預見電信產業經營的資格三 給予 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2689.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2717.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
NCC委定事業監理機關有關增進36條第9項放寬衛星通訊技術使用電信資源及公共電信網路者的董事長國籍及外資比例限制建議人應審酌國際衛星通訊服務對臺灣公共電信網路安全、電信資源使用情形、電信服務市場整體發展國家安全、監禁障礙區防堵及其他公共利益等因素 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2718.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2738.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
並以傾聽多方利害關係人意見後予以綜合通盤考量那第二份報告關於有廣法廣電電視法的修正部分提案重點各個委員的提案重點部分請參閱書面資料本會意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2743.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2760.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
衛星廣播電視法的黨政軍條款第五條及第五十條已經在今年一月三十日三讀通過廣電三法的黨政軍條款建議為一致性的處理對委員所提草案個別意見如下一 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2760.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2789.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
有廣法第四條部分委員陳雪生版本與未廣法第五條只有放寬比例上的不同委員版本是10%衛星廣播電視法三途通過版本是1%二委員傅坤祺版本將進行投資區隔但是不得介入及控制這個條款在實際上難以認定黨軍條款恐怕也不易執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2790.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2805.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
三 温晓琳委员仅删除党军条款的罚则部分这一部分对违反党军条款没有罚则这将会使得党军条款失去预期的功能 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2807.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2828.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
4.委員問小林版本第四案修正58條第二項仍以系統經營者為處罰對象規則對象相對不合理建議參照衛廣法三讀通過的版本來做一致性處理2.廣播電視法的部分兩案第一案委員問小林 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2829.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2838.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
版本第五案修正44條之二第一項第二款到第四款及第二項以民營廣播電視事業及廣播電視事業為處罰對象 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2841.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2859.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
其規則對象不合理 建議參照今年1月30日刪除通過的衛廣法50條議項的規定來修正二 委員溫小林版本第六案僅刪除黨徑條款的罰則部分那建議這個還是要比照這個衛廣法來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2863.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2887.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
結與本案涉媒體的中立的維護及產業的發展NCC認同廣電三法的黨軍軍條款可修不可廢立場並俯以相關配套措施建議考量為一致性處理第三個報告部分關於NCC114年度主管的附屬單位預算解凍報告部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2890.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2908.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
114年度通訊傳播通訪基金傳播室監理計畫下的服務費用及退場費的預算凍結十分之一的部分為落實大院總預算的要求本會在108年起及開始辦理廣電媒體專業素養賠利及公民賠利推廣計畫在 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2912.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2931.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
廣電媒體專業培訓培力的部分我們針對廣電從業人員辦理專業培訓以提升法規認知強化智力及提升內容品質在公民培力的部分我們對於社會大眾辦理公民培力以增進傳播產業的認識提升媒體素養基本能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
2931.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
2957.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
二 依據神經院主計處規範計畫中非禁由媒體辦理的宣導經費例如活動、說明會、宣導品等應編列推展費本計畫編列五十萬元用於專業訓練及供應培力宣導品製作三 本會將持續辦理此計畫透過多元推廣方式提升廣電專業人員的素質促使業者自播優質節目 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
2959.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
2967.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
二、114年度通常基金網際網路傳播計畫向下的服務費用的推展費凍結二分之一的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
2969.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
2994.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
本項預算是本會配合相關辦理相關宣導活動及製作宣導品包括委託民間團體辦理兒少上網安全教育宣導及各級校園宣導網路素養活動委託專業廠商辦理網際網路內容防護機構的宣導品製作委託辦理民眾網路素養培力及業者教育訓練計畫等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
2997 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3009.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
三114年度通財基金網際網路傳播計畫向下媒體政策及業務宣導費預算凍結二分之一部分為向社會大眾宣導 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3010.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3037.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
網路平台額紹防護設定方式與台灣網路新聞自立聯盟成立的相關事宜本會運用本項預算設計製作網路平台額紹的設定懶人包以使民眾了解防護的設定以達成提升公民網路傳播素養的目標也辦理台灣網路新聞自立聯盟成立的記者會以宣導 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3038.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3058.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
宣传其协力规划的网络新闻自立机制的方式使民众知悉网络新闻的申诉管道同时吸引更多网络新闻业者自愿加入达成促进网络平台业者自立的目标以实现保障言论自由维护使用者权益建立安全可信赖环境 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3059.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3080.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
以上三件報告 答應關切議題本會均以詳語說明 相關預算及相關法規修正本會的進步 敬請各位委員會議支持好 謝謝陳榮書主委那我們接下來請訴發部林一慶部長報告部長我們掌握時間喔 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3090.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3107.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
主席各位委員各位女士先生大家早今天書房部應邀列席貴委員會就審查委員葛如君等20人及委員黃建豪等18人分別擬具《電信管理法》第36條條文修正草案提出書面報告並被質詢進行指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3108.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3123.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
電信管理法第36條董事長及國籍及外國人持股比例之限制是我國在民國91年1月1日加入世界貿易組織WTO時談判互惠與承諾的底線電信管理法依據 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3125.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3148.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
電信管理法具以明定相關的要求確保市場市區為增進我國的通訊韌性我國自民國111年底起及積極開放並受理電信事業申請衛星通信用無線電頻率配合配截至目前為止已經有四家本國的電信事業分別與OneWeb SES |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3149.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3165.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
UtelSat以及Astronis等國外衛星業者合作依循電信管理法相關規定向本部提出申請通過審查並獲配頻率順利將國際衛星服務引入台灣考量外資持股限制攸關我國對 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3167.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3192.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
WCO的承諾以及整體經貿利益電信管理法第36條修正案需就其政策影響 廣泛收集各界意見北部將與通常會 經貿談判辦公室等機關共同研議以上報告 敬請指教好 謝謝林益基部長那其餘機關所送書面報告 我們都列入紀錄 刊登公報 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3194.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3213.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
我們現在進行詢答先詢答以下事項詢答時間出席委員5加2分鐘列席委員4加1分鐘委員發言登記在10點30分截止各位委員如果有臨時提案請在10點前提出以便議事人員會診我們暫定10點30分休息10分鐘現在請登記第一位委員外美林委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3222.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3228.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
好 謝謝昭偉那因為時間有限我想是不是可以請陳重樹主委跟林盈靜部長一起上來來 請陳主委 請林部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3235.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3254.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
委員長好 謝謝我想先請教一下我們的陳主委那上一次在備詢的時候本席有聽到你說針對現在行政院是不是有提出NCC的這個委員新名單你現在是不知道但是呢你隨即也表示說七月底之前如果沒有辦法去補足這個人事的話恐怕未來是完全無法運作 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3255.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3272.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
那但是我們依據通訊傳播委員會的組織法規定我們知道在屆期前三個月必須要提出新的委員的人選名單但是呢這個時間點呢就是四月底那也就是剩下八天的時間了那目前針對現在新的提名作業進展到哪裡了 主委知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3273.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3299.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
各位報告這部分我這邊是毫無所惜到現在還是毫無所惜但是雖然我們知道NCC的提名權是在行政院的手中可是您現在是代理主委我想也不應該置身事外尤其是當這個7月底一到NCC其實就如同空城一般那也是您自己所預期的可能業務就會停擺了所以主委都沒有去主動跟行政院討論過相關人士嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3301.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3313.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
有跟行政院相關的長官有在討論有在反映這件事情相關的長官是誰比方說院長辦公室啊或者政委 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3314.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3341.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
院長我想我看過您的資歷在NCC裡面其實您待的時間蠻久的有做過科長 檢任記證 三個處的處長 竹密等等所以其實你對NCC的作業是非常了解的其實本席認為你應該就你的經驗跟專業其實要跟行政院這邊加強溝通甚至於你可以推薦一些人選所以我不曉得到現在為止剩下八天新的人選都沒有出來是因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3342.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3349.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
現在我們在這個專業領域的人才找不到還是說其實專業與否不重要是不是自己人才重要所以是哪一種 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3351.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3371.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
因為過往有提名過兩次有一些處理的經驗昨天在院會院長有做一些說明我相信院長應該會有一些考量再處理你的相信不重要但是你用專業去建議是比較重要那所以呢人選制沒有出來剩下八天我想請教一下是不是您有被甄選要連任 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3373.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3399.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
目前沒有那如果徵詢您的話,您會連任嗎?你表達意願,我們才知道將來要怎麼去處理啊我相信適合擔任委員的人,台灣人才聚集,應該所在多有我相信如果可以的話,我將把這個用餘空間留給院長所以不想做了,不想繼續連任?不是,這是尊重院長的選擇 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3400.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3428.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
好我想我們還是要加快腳步了好不好好謝謝那我們陳主委可以先請回謝謝您然後接下來我想請教一下我們的林部長部長我看到書發部在4月15號的時候有發布了一個徵求民間自行規劃申請參與AI算力中心的一個BOO案對不對一個公告那希望用促參的方式把企業來投入建置AI算力中心那當然就是說這個參與的機構應該要有一定比例的算力 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3429.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3443.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
然後提供政府學術單位無償或者是優惠的來使用這可以協助我們中央企業在這個合理的成本或優惠的成本之下取得算力的資源我覺得本席覺得這個構想其實真的非常的好也支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3445.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3471.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
這個4月15號我們這個案子出來以後申請的時間是到5月14號一個月的時間那請問一下部長我們原本預計你預期有多少家企業來申請因為本席之前有聽有看到媒體也講說好像我們鴻海也會來所以當時我們就覺得真的很棒啊那所以你預期有多少家那現在有多少家來申請了目前實際第一案的應該就是鴻海一家鴻海有來申請了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3475.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3493.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
要講清楚耶 鴻海有來申請了嗎現在還沒有還沒有 那部長你怎麼可以說還沒有你在這裡回答我本席說鴻海有來申請跟我們報告他已經有在我們公告之前他有提出規劃構想書不是嘛 提出規劃構想是一件事嘛我本席問得很清楚 鴻海來申請了嗎部長 鴻海到底來申請了沒有啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3499.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3514.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
沒有現在還在政策公告的期間啊還沒有截止啊是嗎那所以洪海來申請了嗎此時此刻本席在這裡詢問嗎政策公告還沒就沒有嘛對不對公示的是沒有但是他之前已經跟我們密切聯繫而且他還提出了那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3514.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3523.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
密切聯繫所以你認為他百分之百一定會來提出申請這個我不能保證所以不能保證就應該就現狀此時此刻本席在委員會問你你當然就應該要現在我沒有要你保證我剛才的問題你要聽清楚本席是在此時此刻問你有多少家來申請你跟我說鴻海結果鴻海現在此時此刻是沒有提出來的誰要你保證你有什麼本事來做保證 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3539.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3560.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
是完全同意這就是我要講的我沒有這個保證所以你要據實回答呀在委員會可以隨便用答詢的喔是抱歉不可以這種答詢的態度啊是不是沒有要你保證沒有人能夠保證鴻海會不會來但是你要據實答詢嘛你要據實答詢這件事很重要你能明白嗎所以你以後會據實答詢嗎現在有多少家來申請了部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3568.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3593.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
現在有多少家來申請了 部長您是部長是吧部長現在有多少家來申請現在還在公告期間我們剛才四個已經說明了到目前為止我問的問題很清楚到目前為止有多少家來申請那如果說照這種定義委員您這樣的定義的話是沒有現在一家都有零嘛 這有什麼好定義不定義很清楚就我問你答因為現在還在公告期間嘛到目前為止中文到目前為止不夠清楚嗎到目前為止有多少家 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3600.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3624.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
因為在公告期間所以沒有好 到目前為止沒有嘛 對不對那很簡單的問題嘛所以就是我們要加強嘛剛剛本席也說了這個構想我覺得很好可是如果到目前為止都還沒有人申請那我覺得我們是不是要加強一下嘛我當然知道公告期間啊難道按照你這樣講的意思是說5月14號自然就會很多嗎不要這樣講嘛今天在這裡備詢就是答今天的事情嘛是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3625.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3650.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
是完全同意完全同意以後要照這樣做好不好部長改善一下那另外據本席所知道國科會的國網中心在去年我們有成立一個台灣算力聯盟那部長知道這個聯盟嗎知道那這個聯盟其實也很棒就是說我們要擴大算力的應用推廣來結合產業或者是學術然後公共單位的需求但我看了一下我個人覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3651.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3670.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
跟速發部這一次BOO的這個案子的這個目標或是方向其實蠻雷同的那我不曉得說未來如果說目前我們是零但是在5月14號之後如果有企業我們來申請了以後那我們成行以後是不是會把這個資源呢併入到這個聯盟裡面去有這樣的想法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3671.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3690.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
基本上這是兩個不同的目的我們速發部主要是要提供產業界足夠的算力那國科會的國網中心主要是要提供政府單位以及研究單位包含那個大學等那有足夠的算力所以我們速發部這個案子我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3691.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3713.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
這個算力是會收費的基本上因為這是商業營運然後國網中心它提供的這些算力有的是會有優惠的價格那有的是會是以免費的方式提供給政府單位所以還有費用不同的問題是好那但是我在想喔因為我們現在喔不曉得就是部長知不知道我們整個公部門現在的算力中心有建置的有多少你有去了解過嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3714.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3729.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
因為這是國 如同我們剛剛講的這是國科會國網中心那邊的職責所以我們大概知道但是因為數據我的記性沒有這麼好我沒辦法在那邊講出那個很明確的數字那如果說委員這邊有需要的話很好本席非常喜歡你這種務實的答詢是 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3730.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3756.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
那我覺得這樣講啦就是說我們政府現在有在提倡嘛要建設AI之島所以我們知道AI很重要 算力很重要那既然我們國科會現在其實也有很多的計畫在走那訴發部也在做可是看起來訴發部也不算是在國科會這個聯盟之下而是我們單獨有一個我們自己的作用嘛但是呢 未來到底我們整個政府它一個公部門是一個整體的我們怎麼去整合那我想聽你這樣講是以國科會為主不是訴發部為主嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3758.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3786.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
我們是不同就是說產業的算力需求由我們抒發部這邊來主責來解決然後政府機關跟學術單位的算力需求由國科會來負責解決這個是我們的分工好可以我同意我想分工很重要那當然整合很重要這未來當然我們跟國科會這邊再來討論就是分工之後那我們怎麼去統合這樣的一個資源所以這個部分就希望這個案子不錯那希望這個部長繼續加油好嗎謝謝委員的支持與鼓勵謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3788.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3807.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
好 謝謝萬美玲委員的發言 謝謝部長接下來我們請李昆哲委員發言謝謝主席 請一下NCC陳代理主委還有蘇華部林部長好 我們請陳代理主委跟林部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3810.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3832.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
我先請教一下NCC的主委根據美聯社的報導芬蘭他們很早就將這個國家教育的課程納入媒體的識別的一個基本的能力甚至從3歲開始就已經在設計相關的教學內容這是我們看看我們台灣2025年的 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3835.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3860.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
台灣網路報告有近六成的民眾啊自認他能夠辨識相關的假訊息但是真正去動手查證的大概只有13.6%那這也顯示我們在相關的假訊息的識別以及相關的教育的這樣的一個能力啊其實是相關的有很大的一個落差那 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3862.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3890.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
我們對於相關的這一些假訊息尤其是AI假訊息它其實是正在破壞民主社會的這樣的一個媒體的嗜讀的一個能力那數位平台的源頭管理是非常重要我認為我們必須要來參考歐盟的一個法規那有兩個我認為非常重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3891.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
3919.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
第一個就是AI生成的標注的要求第二是平台的責任第一個我們對於標注的要求就是這種生成式的AI它的不管是圖像音訊或者是影片的這些內容它AI系統的提供者它必須要確保它這些內容是可以用機器的這樣的一個可讀的格式 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
3922.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
3941.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
來清楚標示它是AI生成的第二個是平台的責任那平台的責任生成的內容生成的責任當然是比較屬於提供者但是呢在大型的線上平台像Facebook啦像IG啦他們啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
3942.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
3965.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
他們的責任也是非常重要 我看歐盟的法規不管是世衛服務法或者是相關的AI法案他們都是採取聯訪的這樣的一個角色他們認為說這些平台必須要具有偵測的技術而且要確保這些標記它不會在相關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
3966.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
3986.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
內容傳播的過程當中被刪除那我們會不會參照這樣的一個歐盟的法規來請主委說明一下是跟委員報告分兩個部分在傳統廣電部分我們自己能夠在做業者端跟民眾端培力的部分導入AI的議題的一些教育訓練在 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
3989.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4013.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
網際網路這一塊我們大概113年度起因為相關的平台還有AI的興起CHAT GP之後大概也相對比較成為熱潮之後也是從兩個部分從業者端平台端跟民眾端來分頭進行那這幾年大概都有辦相關的一些賠利像去年不管是在 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4015.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4039.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
民眾端我們辦了好幾場然後業者端也辦了好幾場大概都是會持續來處理業者端另外一個關鍵的核心要求就是要請業者我們在相關的預算或是相關的政策已經有在做初步的這樣的一個防止AI生成式的這樣的一個AI的假訊息的這樣的一個處理但是還是不夠啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4040.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4051.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
那我們必須要提到學者所謂的AI假信、自信的這樣一個嚴重的狀況就是說我們的社會有七成的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4053.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4076.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
表示自己啊能夠判斷而且很有自信的會認為這是AI的相關的深層的影像圖片音訊等等但是呢實際上他的準確率卻只有六成而已卻只有六成而已這就表示啊NCC過去在相關的媒體的這樣的一個試讀教育啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4077.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4093.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
是完全跟不上技術的演進這是一個很嚴重的問題那我們NCC每年都有編列這樣一個媒體試圖的這樣的一個推廣的預算那內容就是應該要與時俱進我看我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4095.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4109.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
現在這個媒體試讀的這樣一個推廣的預算到底有多少是用在教導民眾能夠識別這種深層次AI的特徵來說明一下我們請主任來補充說明阿華委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4113.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4126.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
那針對成人的部分我們的預算金額規模大概就是500萬那另外針對IWIN兒少的部分那有一部分教育訓練也是針對我們對於這一種 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4129.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4152.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
媒體的這樣的一個要求對於這種深層式AI我們必須要清楚的要求標示的要求而且平台的責任要落實對於相關深層式AI的這樣的一個民眾的AI假信的自信的這樣的危機必須要重視我請教一下書畫部 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4154.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4171.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
我們蘇華部從2022年開始有開放電信事業申請相關的衛星通信用的無線電頻率那期間也擴大開放相關的衛星頻率的用途等等那我看到有很多的新系 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4173.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4191.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
就是都已經在台灣落地而且都已經開始提供服務了那數位部也在2024年啊年底也採用SES的中軌衛星跟OneWeb的低軌衛星在台灣跟離島部間的770點的非同步衛星的應變網路那2025年我們也持續維運196個關鍵的這個站點那我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4202.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4229.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
要了解說我們對於相關的進程啊亞馬遜計畫最快也要在今年的下半年就要覆蓋台灣相關的網路啦那中華電信也在爭取相關的獨家代理那技術多元化也是未來一個方向那應變的機制也非常的重要啦那尤其是海嵐斷線或是通訊受損的時候啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4230.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4248.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
那優先都會將這些衛星的頻寬調度給國防、醫療、金融等關鍵單位那在防災救災三難的時候它也是很重要的一個使用那低軌衛星是我們暫時通訊的一個最後的保險 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4250.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4272.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
那目前的這些敵軌衛星的星系他們都是屬於外資的外資的星系那今年年底我們政府到底有沒有能力跟這些外資的星系來簽署相關具有法律的約束力的這種國家緊急通訊的優先權來 請說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4274.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4291.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
是 現在如同委員所說的現在主要的這些新系都是國外的廠商那國外廠商他要進到台灣的時候我們依照目前電信法第36條的規定必須由台灣的業者來營運就是說他們外商他不能 占股不能超過50%然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4295.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4313.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
這個事情我們會持續的跟這些星系去溝通那包含就是說大家很關心的STARLINK事實上我們也主動去跟STARLINK去做接觸那STARLINK他們的那個態度其實很有趣他們就跟我們講說目前因為台灣的4G跟5G的那個涵蓋率太高了超過99%所以他們評估認為說台灣這個市場剩下的他們的那個商業空間比較小所以他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4319.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4347.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
那個就是對他們來講這不是個高優先順序的市場但是我們認為說這個可能是真實的狀況也可能是他們談判的一個技巧那我們速發部不管怎麼樣會努力跟他們那個去談那這種談判的過程我想我們都知道就是說這中間有很多的攻防有很多的那個談判的那個技巧那我們這個都會去做我們是覺得這種具有法律約束力的緊急通信的優先協議是非常重要的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4347.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4371.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
我們當然又是說如果發生極端的狀況那這些外商會不會因為地緣政治的壓力單方面的斷訊這是非常嚴重的一個問題那數位部也預計在研發的這些國產的衛星的接收設備目前的自治率到底是有多少來說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4372.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4391.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
因為通常這種衛星星系它的衛星跟它的接收器都是搭配的它這個不是公開的就是公開的規格所以譬如說那個Amazon Leo它的衛星就必須搭配它的接收器然後Starlink就必須搭配Starlink的接收器 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4391.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4419.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
那這些接收器目前很大一部分它供應鏈都是在台灣可是它實際的那個銷售都還是在這些信息手中那委員提到的就是說如果萬一台灣發生緊急狀況它會不會毀約那如果說到時候有毀約的話這絕對要負法律責任那現在如果說是由台灣公司來代理的話那這個法律責任會是在於台灣這個代理公司跟這些那個國外的公司之間的那個B2B的一個糾紛 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4420.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4447.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
但是如果是民間的話直接他直接來賣的話變成是台灣的使用者直接跟他總公司那這個對我們來講的確會比較麻煩部長我具體的建議我們在中華電信或者是數位部在要求這些相關代理的時候就應該要將本地的地面站點管理權以及緊急頻寬的保障必須要納入合約 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4448.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4462.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
第二就是說我們要加速衛星的相關資安的這些標準的一個檢測那應該要建立跟國際接軌例如歐盟他相關的漏洞的這些檢測的技術規範必須要接軌 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4464.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4485.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
另外就是要擴大衛星的這些多元軌道的運用就加強中軌跟低軌的混合應用就是來分散單一星系失效的這個風險最後讓你來補充說明是非常同意那個委員的建議這個是非常好的建議我們要盡量都用多元因為這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4487.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4489.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
請諸位跟部長嚴加督促相關的工作內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4517.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4547.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
謝謝委員提醒跟支持謝謝好謝謝李貫哲委員的發言那我們接下來請魯明哲委員發言好謝謝主持呃有請我們這個NCC陳代理主委還有數位部呃今天部長來哈好我們請陳主委也請林部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4552.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4570.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
其實接續因為上次本來要問我們林部長但是因為時間不夠今天正好兩位都在一起因為那天我們林部長特別說上個月月底這個月初集體台灣非常多的LINE的用戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4572.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4596.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
帳戶消失了然後我記得當天的林部長特別說是兩個小問題就是LINE發生了有一個小問題然後台灣大哥大不管是語音信箱的小問題兩個小問題加起來變一個大漏洞那這樣的一個情況當然那故事我就不講了那怎麼樣進入在觸發了這個電信業者的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4599.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4605.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
他原本的預設的一個密碼我想請問一下先問一下我們陳代理主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4606.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4635.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
這個因為當天我覺得看到世衛部的新聞稿有請教你們你們對於不光是這件事情啊發生的整個三大電信業者都有做一個盤點嗎有當天我們立刻都通知三大電信業者做一些風險的一些指示都是很多立刻都把語音新加的那些功能都關掉那後來也陸陸續續都把這個預設密碼還有這個全部都關掉變成說一定要回去改掉原來密碼才可以啟動 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4636.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4651.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
這是當天的第一個動作那第二個動作我們也請電信偵查大隊請他去LINE那邊了解背後有沒有什麼炸團的一些順便去蒐集一些情節來做後續的一些follow up |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4651.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4673.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
不過這個要跟主委特別提醒一下針對於這些業者我坦白講因為現在不管是不管要詐騙的這種電腦的駭客的概念他們都要推陳出新所以今天當然發生一件事你再盤點一件事我真的是覺得你們兩個相關主管單位我覺得也要要求這些業者 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4675.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4691.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
你要這種能夠往前的一個管理尤其對於資訊安全自己的安全那個部分我覺得這個很重要那再來就是部長部長其實這個事情發生到現在我一直碰到很多當天的這個受害者你知道嗎但我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4692.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4706.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
這很奇怪你覺得你寫了一輩子的日記裡面有你十年的日記這個是千金難換的然後放在一個很保險的地方結果他的密碼被偷了然後說解決好了都沒問題了 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4707.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4725.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
然後還一本空白的日記說我解決了 OK你存了十幾年的相片用相片寫日記但現在是LINE的基本功能真的很多人生活就是這樣的連這個人電話都沒有他的好友五千位裡面有三千位完全沒有電話的 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4726.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4752.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
趴著他丟新的電話簿空拍丟給你我處理囉 我LINE處理了我覺得這個有點離譜因為我碰到一堆三四個朝我重新加LINE了他這個苦啊 他說這莫名其妙啊也沒人說人道歉啊 不知道幹什麼啊就一個個加五千萬的朋友他現在加到一千多位了可是我覺得造成的困難非常嚴重就這樣就結束了是不是 你覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4753.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4770.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
我覺得那個LINE在這部分的話處理不是很好應該那我們也是跟他們溝通過因為這個是基本上他們是一個商業的服務他這個事情他應該是考慮到那個客戶的這些想法那因為那個LINE他當然他的說法是說他擔心是 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4771.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4786.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
那個中間在盜用的過程中那個盜用的人他把裡面加入了什麼訊息什麼什麼他這種講法那因為我們其實我們跟我們速發部跟LINE溝通我們有時候也是覺得說非常的辛苦因為日本人總是那個第一個做事比較謹慎一點我們這樣講比較比較不會那個就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4790.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4809.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
那個日本人就做事很謹慎很謹慎那相對的就是很慢很慢然後什麼事情就是想這個想那個那我們會作為書發部我們是個主管計畫我們會督促他們想辦法就是幫那個客戶所以我覺得這都需要跟他溝通啦我的朋友名字你也不還我對不對有些其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4810.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4832.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
在整個害的過程中他是他的權利我的密碼被他偷了是別人去登登陸我的那個基地是我的資訊裡面是可是你在解決完這個之後我的資訊很多根本還在是但是只是因為你覺得很忙啊算了啊有可能有危險可是對人家來講是半輩子的記憶朋友我倒是覺得在這要溝通一下好如果說 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4833.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4845.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
我是這個被盜的我願意負責啊你照片還我照片給我怎麼樣好啦就算你你檔案還給我不是從LINE的這個角度也要有一個機制嘛怎麼可以這樣的我是覺得希望能夠藉這個機會溝通一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4848.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4872.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
是 好不好那也請委員多幫忙因為有時候那個LINE會是說是因為日本他的那個政府的一些相關法規等等那如果我們能透過那種像說那個國會外交的方式去跟日本政府溝通一下讓LINE可以有這個一些比較法律上的鬆綁讓他可以處理得快一點不要說這每件事情叫不錯不錯部長你把球都給我們了謝謝我們未來有努力最後一個問題問一下我們陳主委是陳主委我要請教一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4878.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4890.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
那天很多的媒體包括電視也都報導他說台灣大哥大當天的客戶是主要受災戶的一個群體其中發現原來的台灣這些用戶最慘 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4893.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
4909.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
那我就覺得你們當然處理了嘛預設密碼直接接客服嘛我知道嘛可是你都沒有想見是是誰為什麼我有這麼多的客戶他是只有在我台灣大哥大裡面的從前一年 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
4911.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
4930.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
過來的台灣之星客戶就表示如果有一個駭客他已經知道哪些是台灣之星這有指標性的有標籤性的他根本知道裡面的資料你覺得這有沒有特定資料外洩的這樣的疑慮啊你聽到你看到這個新聞還是經過你查不是這樣這個很奇怪喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
4932.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
4950.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
台灣大哥大這麼多的客戶群體舉個例子喔你所有的大哥大裡面只有女性的是要被騷擾他怎麼去辨別一個門號是男性還是女性他怎麼辨別是源台灣之星所以我覺得最有可能是源台灣之星的團體 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
4952.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
4969.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
發生了問題把這個資料露出去了要不然就是台灣大哥大在接駁的這個半年不到半年之間發生問題這部分你有沒有想到有沒有去了解一下為什麼一個特定的群體到底我跟你都沒辦法判別 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
4970.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
4990.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
台灣大哥大給我一個電話請問一下他是台灣之星的台灣之星客戶還是原本是台灣大哥大我們怎麼會知道嘛這個部分你要不要去查一下了解一下所以剛剛跟委員報告說我們請電信隊去做後續的一些找一些蛛絲馬跡看看有沒有後續的相關一些進一步的一些調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
4990.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
4994.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
我覺得這個事情還是要盡量搞清楚是原來資料在台灣之星階段就已經外洩了還是在這個再來這個事情要整個做我們所有幾大電信都體檢一下好不好就這樣了沒問題謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5016.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5044.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
好謝謝魯明哲委員接下來我們請林俊憲召委發言好謝謝主席本席邀請我們NCC代主委好我們請NCC代主委邀請我們數法部林部長好請林部長召委長朱委長朱委長跟部長請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5046.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5060.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
我們非常重要的強化國家的通訊韌性是這是哪個單位管的這個是我們速發部的韌性司所主管那法規相關法規是誰在管 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5061.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5090.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
像電信管理法有些法規是書發部管有些是NCC在管以那個電信法來講的話電信法就是我們NCC主管的一個法律所以這種通訊的韌性強化建立這必須要你們兩個單位要來合作我們現在的通訊網絡大概就是陸海空以一般國家來看的話陸地就是我們例如基地台 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5092.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5114.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
例如海底電纜那現在呢經過這幾年全世界都看到了這種透過空中的通訊載體例如像這種低軌衛星是非常重要的尤其在非常時期從俄烏戰爭從伊朗之前之前伊朗因為有一些民眾抗爭 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5118.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5133.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
伊朗政府就封閉了所有的通訊當時也是透過低軌衛星來提供免費的連線來突破伊朗軍事的政府的那種用軍規的網路封鎖 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5137.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5162.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
那這其中我們也看到剛剛有幾位委員關心過我們海底電纜其實在不用說非常時期啦在平時啊應該就經常發生過被割斷甚至有蓄意的人為的來破壞這種大概佔了八成以上的因素那陸地的你像基地台的通訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5163.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5184.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
其實在這次的颱風 台南是發生的我們就感受到它的脆弱性所以我們也強化陸地的基地台我們現在有一種所謂的抗災型的強化它抵抗天然災害這種基地台另外也有 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5185.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5200.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
海底電纜以外另外最常講的就是那如果空中的低軌衛星的建立現在很多國家也都往這個方向去不曉得兩位對這點有沒有什麼看法來這個主管到後面說 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5201.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5227.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
是 根據我們報告 確實這個韌性是疊加的基本部分是NCC 認定為CI部分是數位部那海地星空的統一結合都是在通信基本原理上都是它的多路由多倍元的概念那當然是以曝顯的程度比較不容易遭受打擊的應該是非同步衛星目前台灣也是朝這方向來逐步擴建 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5228.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5252.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
那我們有朝這個方向去嘛那其實我們現在的法律規定是非常嚴格的啦我們電訊管理法 再引進去主管的法律嘛我們規定如果你要到台灣來如果我們要引進低軌衛星的話現在幾乎這個技術都在國外嘛在歐洲 尤其在美國嘛最出名的就是星鏈 馬斯克的星鏈 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5253.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5272.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
但是他到台灣來的話第一個像這種使用電信資源來提供公眾電信網路的這個老闆要有中華民國國籍這是我們規定的第二個外國人如果到台灣來投資他持有的股數股份不得超過49% |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5275.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5298.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
也就是說那幾乎等於限制外國公司不可以到台灣來因為他持有股份不可以過半直接間接的總股份數不得超過60%那以這樣的條文來限制恐怕就國際目前既有的啦既有的能夠提供信念服務服務的低軌衛星服務的公司恐怕就攔你進到台灣來 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5299.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5317.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
跟委員說明一下 其實目前這個條款是講的是說他不能直接來經營 但是他可以透過代理商所以像現在那個中華電信就是我們比較透過跟他合作那這樣的合作 國外公司接受嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5318.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5343.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
目前就只有STAR LINK接受然後Amazon還有那個Eurostar還有那個OneWeb他們都接受那實際上以目前的世界的主力啦坦白講還是那個STAR LINK因為他最早從這裡嘛是所以我是覺得那我們電信管理法有沒有可能來放寬他的彈性 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5346.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5366.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
如果說能放寬彈性的話那當然是對蘇發布在跟STARLINK進行溝通協調談判的時候因為這個是新的東西新的科技所以很多國家藉由的法律通通沒有辦法來應付這種狀況我現在看到很多世界上很多主要國家都開始有 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5367.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5383.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
有對於法令上增加彈性的一個做法是你像日本、韓國、荷蘭甚至菲律賓、越南他們都採取比較開放的做法也就是透過專案審查的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5385.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5401.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
來在風險當然有一些前提啦在風險可控在國家安全以及未來電信產業的發展不影響的之下來做來引進國際企業和技術在法令上有這樣的一個彈性的做法不知道NCC的看法怎樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5401.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5417.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
是跟趙偉報告這一塊其實其他國家最近有些鬆綁其實他是有綁定一些剛剛趙偉所講他有些前提比方說跟他一些貿易簽FTA等等有一些綁定一些條件那歐洲特別是西歐很多國家他外資全部放掉其實他對國家對數據主權的 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5420.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5437.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
把關他價值還存在因為各位別忘了歐洲最厲害的武器就是GDPR這個跨境的個資傳輸資料傳輸他都有嚴格限制所以即便是我們講荷蘭好了他即便外資全部放掉我不管你可是他還是要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5438.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5461.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
目前最受歡迎的那家立委公司在他們還是要設Gateway那這種情況在亞洲國家剛剛我們報告所提到一些日本他有設Gateway那菲律賓也有那其他的越南也好他是綁定一些貿易上的條件所以其實現行的條文其實就如剛剛部長所講的要操作一定可以操作 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5462.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5487.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
那現行的條文大家看這個目前畫面這邊前面不管是第四項第五項的前面逗點的前面那個前提除法律另有規定外法律另有規定包括條約那我們目前跟假設某些國家有簽FDA或者說跟跟美方的目前那ART假設條款裡頭有些符合的話其實也可以豁免所以既有的法律就有一定的彈性嗎你意思是這樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5488.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5508.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
是的沒錯就是以前面的規定除了法律另有規定之外那另外有跟召委報告就是說對本國業者的一些衝擊因為大概STARLINK的第二代以前大概相對衝擊不大但是第二代之後他因為衛星間我用時間的關係第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5511.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5532.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
我們是要考量在這種新科技新技術的這個時代我們現有的法令會不會影響到未來我們建置國家的通訊韌性安全如果有必要我們當然要思考如何來解決法令鬆綁的問題看有沒有必要性 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5534.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5555.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
第二個你看一般在一個國家他其實在這方面他越來越有貪心做法我給你看日本在日本這個照片在我左邊這個照片這是日本Big Camera裡面他公開就任何消費者都可以去買Starlink的設備 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5557.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5586.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
你回家就可以自己裝了那右邊是日本Costco的照片你看它整個整堆好像雙的民眾隨時可以買回家自己裝所以在這方面因為你不可能所謂的基地台尤其是陸地通訊建制我們光是講偏鄉的這個網路落差通訊落差就不知道講了多少年政府不知道補助這些電信公司多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5587.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5605.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
就沒有辦法消除所以那個通訊死角那種城鄉的數位落差就這樣了那像這樣有這種新的技術你就不會有通訊死角這種大部分都是沒有辦法得到正常網路通訊的地方他都可以買回去自己裝 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5606.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5630.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
但是你看台灣在這方面已經相對落後了他們已經是變成一種民眾你可以自己考量你有必要就等於民生用品一般啦大型的量販店通路你都可以買的到啦在台灣我們還在討論法規的問題所以這個其實我們已經相對的在這方面我認為政府應該要加快腳步好不好好 謝謝我們NCC 謝謝我們說法部 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5633.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5662.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
好 謝謝主席好 謝謝委員 謝謝召委好 謝謝我們林議員召委感謝兩位那接下來我們請洪孟凱委員發言好 主席謝謝麻煩請我們NCC代理主委跟我們訴發部林部長好 也要請代理主委跟林部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5666.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5695.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
好 代理主委我先請教因為本期一個禮拜前也利用總質詢時間請教卓榮泰院長說我們NCC委員還有三位目前可能7月31號就到期那依法令規定是三個月前要提出相關的名單送立法院來做審議嘛那卓榮泰院長他當時跟我講法是說他要盡力找人但沒有十足把握但實際上來講只剩一個多禮拜就4月30號了 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5696.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5708.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
那我還是一樣老問題啊我不知道說您現在代理主委當然現在委員人數不足你們也有一些業務沒有辦法推動那更重要的是卓榮泰院長在這段時間有沒有請教過您的建議報告委員目前沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5710.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5733.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
目前沒有也沒有所以卓榮泰院長他的心態現在是怎麼樣我沒有辦法想像就是說立法院行政院大家國事如麻但是該做的事情應該要做獨立機關已經過去人選出來我們也講了只要好的人選立法院不會刻意的阻撓但是我們希望你真的是能夠提出優質的人選 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5735.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5749.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
那半年過去了上一次NCC四位委員是在去年11月投完票那現在半年過去了到目前為止人選還沒有出來那如果說在一個禮拜之後還是沒有人選出來那這到底帳要算誰的 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5750.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5778.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
你人選沒有出來立法院就沒有辦法審查我相信召委不管是藍營召委綠營召委大家都一定會馬上來做排案就如同我們預算附委之後馬上來做預算的一個解凍或是審查這個本來就是立法院的權責那但是如果行政院連名單都不送出來立法院要怎麼辦代理主委這個問題大家都很關注是啊我關注你關注但就感覺只有卓榮燈院長他 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5780.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5797.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
沒有很重視的感覺啊不然的話他問一下請你去聊一下問一下說到底現在NCA業務怎麼樣然後如果說有沒有人選你有沒有具體的建議專業建議甚至代理主委問說你願不願意徵廚也沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5800.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5825.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
我相信到月底還有一段時間應該行政院應該會 八天我們就等著看因為我不為難你因為這不是你的全責可是我只想是說再一次點出這個問題想要請教的是到底民進黨政府現在有沒有把國人心心念念放的優先順位先擺出來還是什麼事情都可以推中共打壓NCC提名人士應該不是中共打壓吧也不應該吧來吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5831.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5847.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
我們來討論一下因為今天我覺得這個新鏈的議題防衛韌性或是我們的這個通訊數位韌性非常重要本席也很關注那我們也看到了就是說速發部有相關的意見但速發部的意見我剛剛看了一下那個說明比較像是說還要再做研議 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5848.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5868.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
沒有絕對支持也沒有絕對反對因為現在主要卡到幾個點嘛第一是說我們國內的36條有規定是說不能超過外資不能超過50%那法定就框住了但一樣的道理看看日本跟韓國我覺得日本韓國是可以做比較的為什麼因為第一離我們近第二產業相對 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5870.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
5896.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
相近還有說實在話他們是我們也是算競爭的夥伴嘛所以人家有往前超前了那我們也應該要迎頭趕上先說台灣的4G 5G的普及率高所以好像星鏈對我們這個市場沒有那麼的重視但我查了一下資料當然這資料可能各國政府他不同的數據判斷可是我查了以 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
5897.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
5916.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
人手一機的普及率來講手機上網普及率台灣佔87%到90%左右日本佔90%以上韓國更高但95%到98%所以換言之韓國日本其實以人手一機手機上網的普及率其實還比台灣高 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
5917.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
5935.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
這是一個數據那另外第二個部分是說我們想要請教到底低軌衛星對於日本也好韓國也好他們現在正在推行那有沒有增加他們防衛性那他們怎麼做能夠避免被詐騙集團濫用利用這有沒有去做了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
5935.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
5962.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
是有跟委員報告都是幾個重點第一個日本韓國他們可以做到處理其實就是因為他們有一些籌碼上跟對方在做一些折衷你只是說這個訓練對韓國是因為跟美方有簽FTA所以他的外資條款可以豁免可以排除適用那日本的話他是因為斯大林在日本有多位有在當地落地 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
5962.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
5977.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
那以目前的情況如果我們信用條款如果直接沒有修改的話其實STAR LINK願意配合的話都可以做因為既有的已經來落地的OneWeb也好其實都已經這麼做了那以 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
5977.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
5999.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
Starlink最近新的第二代的它的Starlink第二代它是可以做那Inter-Satellite Link就是衛星間直接丟那個中繼信號的話這一塊對未來的產業的發展衝擊是比較可怕為什麼因為最近Starlink取得52項的專利它可以在 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6000.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6016.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
改變這個Tracking Area Code的這種情況之下他可以以後目前手機支聯Starlink大概只能傳Text都傳文件然後簡訊而已未來他傳影音傳影像大概就相對沒問題是就等於是網速更快對 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6017.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6033.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
那某種程度的話他可以立刻取代掉所有地面的一些行動業者所以這個對產業的衝擊很大是產業衝擊是一個部分但一定要有本國業者的角色主委你剛剛沒有聽本席的問題本席問A你答A啦齁我先說因為我也看到說本 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6034.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6056.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
你講的我們也都理解就是說他等於是互相競爭嘛本國業者譬如說三家業者他們是要設基地台那如果說今天STARLINK來他不用設基地台那他也一樣的網速的話那可能很多人就會選擇因為他不用基地台他就變成是說他涵蓋面比較廣如果說一些譬如說山區海邊原本他基地台比較少的地方他的收訊比較弱 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6057.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6072.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
那可能那些民眾他就會被Starlink給吸引走但這都還不是本席的問題因為那個是市場公平競爭的機制但本席看到的是我不要說因為我們放寬了Starlink進來之後發聲說有業者現在宣稱可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6074.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6101.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
詐騙集團可能這些非法的集團他會利用Starlink這樣的衛星然後本國沒有辦法去追蹤所以我現在想問的是日本政府跟韓國政府怎麼樣解決這個問題對就是我剛才還沒來得及跟文回答就第二部分是日本怎麼處理呢因為他街會在日本落地所以他在這個通訊監察就是英文叫lover intersection的部分他可以實質從physical layer就已經掌握了 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6101.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6129.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
那韓國他也在洽談而且韓國是有本國業者參與所以在這國家安全通信監察治安防護防打炸等等他是一定的掌握度那如果如果說我們這邊如果在本國參與跟涉基位這兩個部分我們都沒有辦法掌握沒有辦法在台灣實現的話其實這個是相當危險的所以以主管機關立場當然束發務還沒有表達意見林部長我看你後面一直在微笑 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6130.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6151.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
代理主委你現在講法就這個也是本席我們認為未來在修法的時候一個很重要的一句真參考如果說你剛剛講這兩個先決條件都沒有辦法做到的話換言之開放STARLINK來台灣會容易就變成是說他內容是什麼通訊是什麼我們沒有辦法有任何地步的掌握有掌握但是就會像 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6152.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6169.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
譬如說我們過去的一個狀況譬如說社群媒體平台它沒有在台灣設落地那也因此它在社群媒體平台上面的一個詐騙廣告或我們第一時間沒有辦法那當然後續我們因為通過相關法令我們要求社群媒體平台它自律也好或說他們做相關的規範才有做 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6171.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6191.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
規範所以變成未來如果說這樣的話有可能是需要依賴企業自律而不是我們政府公權力站在地線是這樣嗎我已經講到重點了存外商沒有本國業的參與的話在打仗在治安上的防護的效率速度上大概會存在一個都是會比較疑慮這是第一個第二個就是剛剛提到的數據主權問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6195.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6207.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
在歐洲國家特別西歐很多外資筆記都完全放掉了可是他還是要求他的要那個STAR LINK要在當地設定為那我們在做相關修法的時候能不能堅持跟要求這一塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6207.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6229.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
其實最簡單 現行的條款都可以達到因為新條款是制度上 先天上就是國安到位 by design就已經放在那邊了當然如果說我們國家安全需要的話其實可以分階段to B to government to G可以先做只是目前對方目前比較沒有意願因為土系他自己講說他會覺得是說如果要開放就要全部開放嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6230.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6252.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
所以說某種程度上這就是永遠都是角力但本席還是強調的是站在我們台灣2300萬人的第一主權還有安全以及韌性上面我們做一個綜合最有利的選擇好這個部分是未來修法的時候進入到主條我們會再討論但我最後一分鐘我要再請教一下那日本我們現在看到有兩個做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6253.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6272.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
大家媒體也看到第一 日本去年他們政府部門宣布說他們也要不要把權力或說技術全部掌握在STARLINK上所以他們投入了1500億我不知道日幣或是台幣這個幣值我沒有見但1500億要打造日本的新鏈這個新聞有看到吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6273.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6288.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
所以換言之有可能如果說他們現在投入打造日本的芯鏈的這個技術未來有可能變成是說不會是全球獨家只有芯鏈這一個公司那麼的成熟也許日本也有他們的獨家技術我們變成是說有多元管道也可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6290.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6314.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
採用另外第二個是日本他們現在宣布說2027年他們駐外使節管等於是外管先採取使用新鏈尤其是在比較容易發生天災或是比較容易有戰爭的國家他們的駐外管是用新鏈的系統來去做這個通訊避免日本國人在那個國家裡面失去 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6316.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6327.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
聯繫發生重要事業聯繫那我覺得這東西就可以思考一下這當然可能要跟外交部一起來討論可是如果說連日本他們都已經想到是說我們也許台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6328.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6347.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
我們本土境內沒辦法但是至少我們的外管尤其像一些我們的友邦是不是能夠那裡的駐外單位他們也可以來使用新鏈這樣的一個通訊技術未來可以跟我們國內的這個暢通管道更無虞因為我們有些友邦的基礎建設真的沒那麼好 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6348.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6370.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
這可不可以研究一下其實我也能講到重點 剛剛日本舉的例子日本本身也要發展自己的衛星產業所以在台灣如果如果地基業者有角色的話這一部分台灣的衛星發展才不會說完全就是被Bypass所以那兩個 那另外第二個部分可能就跟外交部也比較相關那束發部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6371.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6386.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
能不能提一下那這樣子本期這樣的一個建議是不是能夠找外交部來討論看看有沒有需要來去做一個更強化至少我們國外的單位回來台灣的這個通訊以及我們在那邊的國人的通訊能夠有一些保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6387.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6404.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
是委員的這個提議非常好那我們會跟外交部那邊去做建議不過這個事情因為第一個是外交這個牽涉到那個機密的事情可能就是說數八部沒辦法直接去做必須由外交部去做另外一個是說因為如果在一個那個譬如說是 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6406.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6434.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
非洲的哪一個國家 那那個必須當 接受當地法律的規定這個就不是我們 那個NCC跟數碼規定好 但參考一下日本的因為日本現在已經做了 他們宣布2027年他們全球的駐外使節單位都會用衛星通訊來跟他們國內保持原本就已經有的通訊 他們維持但是他們多增加星鏈這樣的技術來確保真的發生天災或是戰亂的時候他們的國人還是可以跟日本政府來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6435.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6446.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
取得聯繫 好不好 我們參考一下是 好嗎 謝謝委員的提醒跟支持 謝謝好 我們謝謝侯孟愷委員的發言謝謝部長跟主委我們接下來請陳樹越委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6458.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6466.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
好 謝謝主席 請主席邀請NCC陳代理主委還有數目發布的林部長好 請陳主委跟林部長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6475.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6494.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
今天委員會就是針對電信管理法第36條的徵求條文進行討論我們看到有關電信管理法針對公眾電信網路外資的限制在原本的條文裡面對外國人直接持股的股份總數我們歸電是不得超過49% |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6497.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6524.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
直接及間接持有的股份總數不得超過百分之六十那同時就是說以股份有限公司為限的話董事長應具有中華民國的國籍那我們今天有看到我們就是召委的版本跟葛如君委員的版本那召委的版本裡面當然就是最後面當然就是說經主管機關核准則就是不受第四項後段及第五項之限制這是他們就是這兩個版本的最終的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6525.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6545.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
訴求 照我的版本我們看到它是有比較更細緻的規範 當然就是說針對網路安全或者是國家安全及其他公共利益的無補利益影響有這樣子的一個條件的限制不過這兩個版本都是應該最主要的目的就是要放寬 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6547.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6566.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
外國人直接持股的比例就是外資的這個限制那我現在在我想要請教一下就是以目前我們現在的電信管理法第36條對外資的這個限制的現行條文裡面我們是否讓所有國外的這些低軌衛星的業者確保 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6568.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6595.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
沒有其實oneweb還有其他SES等中國也好大概都遵行現行的戰略條規定來進來也跟委員報告其實現行的規定其實當初我們加入WTO的時候的跟多方在談的情況之下那是基本當時的一些基本要求其實過往早期電信法的事情海蘭也要求必須要follow這個外資條款外資限制條款其實都不是問題只有他們願意配合的話都不是問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6596.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6619.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
是 就是他們要配合的話這些都不是問題嘛那尤其我們目前也已經有這個跟OneWeb就是已經有合作的關係嘛我記得之前在我們在審預算的時候我記得之前唐鳳部長也有說明過嘛我們目前書法部的就是跟OneWeb的帝國衛星的一個合作部件的狀況大概是怎樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6620.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6635.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
目前情況 我們在台灣部建了770個那個點就是所謂的User Terminal所以OneWeb在台灣運行都是順暢的那當然是受到因為我們的預算被砍的關係所以那個我們實際維域的點會比較少一點190個而已 OK |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6639.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6660.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
是 所以其實如果說要以國家安全為前提為考量要來放寬這個外資的限制倒不如就是說支持預算嘛讓這個預算通過來支持我們部件更多的這樣子的接收的原盤嘛 是不是是 請委員多多支持 謝謝是 那 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6661.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6680.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
所以我們剛剛就是就我們主委跟部長的一個回答我們就可以知道說其實以現行的條文根本不會去影響到我們台灣就是有關這個電信業者跟就是這一些低軌衛星的這些業者的一個合作嘛對不對對實質上是不會影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6680.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6695.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
而且先天設計上可以讓本國業者也有參與本國的衛星發展技術也可以做一些銜接然後國安、治安、打炸大概相對效率上也有一定程度的保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6696.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6715.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
是 好 那我們再來看就是說本席有看到就是說在2023年7月的時候其實就有一則新聞就是這個彭博勝有一個新聞標題報導就是說馬斯克欲全權掌控在台的低軌衛星持股所以不利台灣推動數位潤性 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6717.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6729.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
所以我們看到今天這樣子的一個增修條文要放寬外資的限定不免讓外界質疑說這樣子條文是不是特定在替這個信念在解套 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6731.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6751.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
主委跟部長看法如何我們法律條文寫都是一般性的一般都是通案適用所以如果再更好的如果現行條文改的如果超越過往當然是現行修正條文當然是沒問題但是現行修正條文會有幾個疑慮大概有兩個 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6752.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6774.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
情勢變更就是STARLINK SPACE它目前的那個第二代的衛星它可以它沒有要求在每個國家陸地國家設Gateway不設Gateway最大的問題是數據主權的問題就是說它是用邏輯設計上提供資訊給你不管是通電清查不管是你做它一些資料使用的一些追蹤那些都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6775.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6793.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
不是physical layer不是基礎層以上的若你有設備業的話他是從基礎層開始提供給你這個會實打實的一些掌握對國家安全對通訊對治安會比較掌握但對業者的發展兩個部分對衛星產業的部分如果沒有本國參與的話大概也比較不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6793.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
6816.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
那對本國的電信業者 孤網也好 先網也好第二代的Starlink它未來可以取代掉這個行動通信的可能大增因為它最近取得52項的新的專利這個是讓它以後傳這個影音都可以目前它手機之前只能傳簡訊 是相對差但是它第二代的衛星之後 它這些功能 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
6818.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
6835.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
突然變得很強這個對未來產業會有影響所以我也要觀察對本國產業的影響所以我們才建議說要多聽相關利害關係人的看法是 那個本來想接著問就是放寬公眾電信網路外資持股限制可能產生的影響那剛剛主委都有講了 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
6836.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
6865.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
所以其實我們也都知道就是說我們從平常的這個媒體報導就可以看得出來這個馬斯克他是極度傾中的而且這些都不是這些都是有事實根據的因為他都屢次公開發表親中的言論向中國市所以我們也覺得說如果未來這樣子的一個親中企業掌握我們台灣的關鍵基礎設施我們就是台灣如果面臨緊急狀況的時候我們的風險是否可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
6866.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
6886.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
就是說在可控的範圍之內 我覺得這是我們擔憂的所以這可能會讓我們國家更陷於這個危險的一個境地那另外我們也看到就是說 即使星鏈它也是成為詐團詐騙的一個使用工具因為這個都是有事實發生的一個記錄因為在緬甸詐騙園區被 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
6891.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
6913.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
圍剿之後那他也急速的死灰復燃因為他就是大規模的利用這個星鏈上網那所以我們台灣也有這個詐騙集團用馬斯克的星鏈加深尾技術去盜用這個就是照片這個臉臉的識別所以去進行詐騙所以我覺得說這個星鏈未來如果進入台灣市場 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
6913.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
6935.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
我們要怎樣去監理 如何監理 這個都是我們要去很慎重的去考慮的一個地方對 所以我講的重點就是說在治安上的一些效率 配合度效率如何因為過往在打仗上一些國外公司 國外數位平台公司的配合度其實曾經是一個很大的挑戰那如果沒有本國業者參與的話 這個挑戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
6937.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
6961.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
存在的風險是相對比較大的 如果有本國參與的話這個風險可以達到一定程度的掌控 效率也可能會比較提升所以這才說是都要通盤考量 一時關照的所以我們覺得說 這個是否要放寬這個外資的一個限制我覺得這真的是一個非常要慎重的一個議題那再來就是說 未來我們台灣是否可以發展自己的低軌衛星 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
6963.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
6989.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
目前這個TASA就是台灣的NSP後續的國內的原來太空計畫室其實有在發展自己的體系那如果說國內業者假設例如這個STARLINK有國內業者參與我相信這個技術的一些傳承的一些參與可以有利於本國的衛星發展這也是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
6989.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7018.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
要考量的因素那如果就今天外資全部開全部豁免的話那本國要要如何去借機如何學習這一塊的可能性就消失了這個也要考量所以我覺得說為了國家的安全考量我們台灣也應該要積極發展自己的地位衛星那我想我們台灣的人才基地我想這個部分也有帶我們就是NCC跟速發部去做這個資源的一個整合希望我們未來 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7018.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7039.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
可以有朝這個方向去發展好 謝謝好 謝謝委員謝謝委員的支持 謝謝好 謝謝陳書業委員也謝謝我們部長跟主委待會委員許志傑詢答之後我們休息十分鐘那我們休息結束之後再來處理這個臨時提案那我們接下來請何新淳委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7045.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7050.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
好 謝謝 見好招委那我們是不是請數位發展部林部長好 請林部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7057.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7084.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
部長好我想我還是比較關心民生議題喔那這個詐騙喔這個打詐國家隊喔大家都是對數位發展部期待非常深啦希望能夠呢數位發展部用專業用你們跟平台的溝通用很多很多的方式要深入民心讓大家有感覺得國家打詐隊是有效的啦但是呢我今天要問的是喔讓大家覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7086.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7089.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
我去年6月有質詢TRADE的廣告之前沒有納管當然我也很高興我們政府數位發展部也從善如流我6月質詢 9月就納管 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7104.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7131.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
因為那時候大家對Trade開始可以除了發文發圖發照片之外那個詐騙量越來越多所以我們要求了這Trade的廣告要納管要落實身份驗證就是實物制廣告的投放的揭露詐騙內容一定要儘速的下架就納入在我們這個網路平台的這樣子一樣的一個規範裡面但是來下一頁我們發現 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7133.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7138.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
廣告審查重演之後,這個炸團反而又更厲害了現在轉換手法,這個不僅僅是媒體也有報導過有很多的店家,他自己開始發文,發文什麼?因為他們的名稱,他們店家的商品 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7156.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7168.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
資訊等等被冒用了所以為什麼這個是最上面的詐騙型手段第一個透過廣告投放實名制他們沒有辦法通過認證之後所以他開始利用什麼熱門的關鍵制 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7172.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7190.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
熱門的關鍵字包括商品可能是電玩啊日用品啊現在最夯的是什麼化妝品之類的他開始利用這個關鍵字假冒真實店家的名號那大量的投放複製這個相關的內容文章那取得演算法的關鍵字推薦 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7192.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7210.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
那很多民眾不曉得所以呢可能就會下單下單之後呢就是誘騙民眾私訊那取得個資或者販賣假貨那這個就是現在Trade上面廣告沒有辦法了那就換什麼換冒用真實店家 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7211.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7228.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
冒名鋪文又騙民眾的個資跟榨取財物這個是現在新的手法而且非常大量下一頁你看喔我們從這個推上面看到許許多多的店家的無奈的澄清文 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7229.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7254.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
而且這些文章是大量的被傳播那不僅僅是民眾的財務被榨取店家的名譽也受損我的服務處也有很多人來陳情那很多人打電話來跟我說什麼他訂的貨他沒收到或是他訂的貨呢是一個劣質品來要求他店家要賠償那還跑來服務處問說那我們需要法律諮詢那我們該怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7255.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7281.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
好 那這實質上面該怎麼辦那第一個報警 該由警政署來辦第二個 平台的下架的速度慢傷害一直造成這個新聞也已經很多次報導過那很多有的這個社群的這個因為他這樣子的一個文章被冒名擴散影響到他店家的生意甚至讓他坐不下去會倒店所以脆上面的詐騙問題到現在有增無減 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7285.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7303.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
這個部分其實我就是要來跟我們部長來請教一下在下一頁尤其警政署也提過事情這TRADE的詐騙量顯著的增加而且依法我們現在依法是要儘速下架因為如果越快下架的話第一個可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7304.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7322.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
確保民眾被詐騙財物的風險降低第二個店家被冒名的這個頻率或者是他受到的損失可以降低這個問題是在於我們到底能不能第一個下架的速度快可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7323.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7343.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
是 跟委員報告那個處理這個Thread這種詐騙那個基本上我們可以從三方面來著手第一個就是加快通報的速度那我們在這邊要呼籲就是說民眾如果遇到有這種可疑的那個訊息在Thread上面有可疑訊息的話請下載使用那個網詐通報查詢網把這個事情那個通報上來 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7344.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7369.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
那同胞上來就是第一個部分然後第二個我們要加快那個確認這個是不是假店家的這個速度那因為我們以前比較沒有處理這種店家你們現在如果要確定這個下架之前的程序大概要多久的時間我們如果是找那個譬如說之前公眾人物的話只要公眾人物一確定的話我們大概我們現在平均應該是幾個小時之內我們就幾個小時五個小時兩個小時之內 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7372.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7396.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
這是有名的公眾人物兩個小時以內可以下架那請問一下我剛剛講的這個跟委員報告其實這個問題就在於說如果有人仿冒謝金河的話我們就可以去那個聯絡謝金河或者他的那個辦公室的助理啊但是有些這個店家我們也不認識我也不知道他在哪裡所以這個是我們要解決的問題來來來上一頁無奈的店家的無奈的陳清文已經在推上很多了耶知道啦新聞報導也報導很多次了 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7399.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7421.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
甚至有人還會因為這樣子而倒閉是的 我也不是這個意思我的意思是說我們已經跟謝金額或者是張忠謀或者黃仁勳的辦公室我們已經取得了固定的聯絡方式但是這些店家可能都是第一次被人家冒用然後因為全台灣有這麼多的店家這個事情其實也不是我們抒發應該這樣講如果說有名的公眾人物你取得 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7427.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7448.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
溝通管道可以聯絡的管道你可以處理那我們現在針對這麼多店家被冒用被詐騙集團利用那民眾的財務受損店家的名譽受損那我們針對這些無奈只能在網路上勾成親吻的這些店家我們可以提供什麼樣的專線什麼平台可以幫忙 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7451.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7479.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
當然就是我們要趕快跟這些店家聯絡但是因為這些店家都不像謝金河或張忠謀那麼有名所以我現在就是要跟委員解釋就是說我們會朝這個方向去努力我們想辦法利用其他的機制去跟他確認譬如這個可能需要經濟部或者是內政部就是警政單位的協助我們總是要做確認否則的話有人萬一那個謊報不是 再上一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7480.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7488.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
部長我之所以為什麼要確認我們能不能提供一個管道或平台讓這些受害的店家可以找得到 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7489.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7513.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
解決或者是找得到政府的支持 你要知道像這些詐騙的假網拍 居罐 轉網 上司 煙彈 竄生 毒品的第二大宗也就是說現在這些店家被冒名 他買賣的商品可能不只是他自己所推銷行銷的商品 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7515.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7533.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
甚至是透過這些店家因為他們被冒用了所以變成是一個販賣毒品 毒品交易的一個網路下的地下管道那這個是一個很可怕的一件事情很多的家長會擔心是因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7534.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7554.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
用這樣的管道這些毒品的取得非常的隱密而且快速跟方便這個是對我們整個社會來講大家是不能容許的也是希望政府要拿出魄力能夠積極因應所以我才會說也許你剛剛講不是只有數位發展部的責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7555.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7571.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
那我要求的是數位發展部在跟平台溝通下架的速度要快第二個對於這些名譽受損的店家或者是被冒名的店家或者是因為這些管道變成是毒品的一個這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7573.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7595.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
交易流通的一個線下的管道要跟我們警政署好好的來合作嘛不是嗎那你除了警政單位除了你數位發展部那我們平台這些要求他競速下架的一個時效性不能說有名的公眾人物我可以要求兩個小時以內下架那這些店家 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7596.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7622.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
再次跟委員解釋一下 這個處理分成三段 第一個是通報第二個是確認 第三部分是通知那個平台下架我們政府是不是要有一個機制來呼籲大家說你們被騙了或是被冒用了是不是可以有一個通報的機制是 這個就是我們的網照通報查詢網就是我剛才講的就是網照通報查詢網就只有那一個查詢網我們速發部是負責這個 然後如果要用內政部的話那就是用那個165打詐專網 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7625.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7640.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
那個內政部有他們的服務內政部的那個165基本上他們是必須處理已經成案就是已經有財損的那我們速發部這邊會處理一些還沒有造成傷害的我們事先處理這是我們網站通話查詢網的目的所以我們要鼓勵民眾多多使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7640.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7663.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
今天警政單位有沒有啦 我不知道啦但是我還是提醒訴法部啦因為這些數據是你們網路的詐騙通報裡面呢 由數字來看近30日的通報數據過去催戰通報比例的28%近7日 這是最新的數據近7日來催戰通報比例已經高達64%那表示 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7666.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7681.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
這一個新型的網路詐騙的在Trade上面這個平台上的案件量是非常急劇的暴增那如何來打擊如何保護我們民眾跟店家的權益我覺得第一個要快第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7682.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7710.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
你要多久的時間內把這個相關的單位找來把你剛剛說的從通報第一步第二步第三步把這個完整的SOP能夠提供給我們所有受害的店家也好影響的民眾權益也好能夠呢及早的來防範而且讓他們可以知道從哪裡可以得到政府的支持好委員我們那個提出那個說明報告給您好不好好啊多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7712.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7727.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
兩週內我們提供兩週內你給我書面報告那我書面報告裡面要求你們要把跟相關單位的一個協商或者是開會建立的機制內容細節都要寫清楚說清楚好不好是可以沒問題好謝謝委員好謝謝何定成委員的發言那接下來請這個許志傑委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7743.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7766.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
謝謝主席 我們請NCC主委好 謝謝 請NCC陳代主委主委好主委好 我們NCC現在有三位委員嘛是 目前現在三位任期到什麼時候今年7月317月31 那我們卓院長也希望說趕快再提嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
7767.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
7796.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
是 昨天大院會有提到你要呼籲就是在野黨盡量能夠國家的需要不要再阻擋了那萬一他們再阻擋如果我們卓院長盡力但沒有十足把握如果提出來沒有過那到了7月31以後是不是就委員全部都卸任了是的 沒錯那到時候NCC怎麼運作 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
7797.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
7821.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
大家都雖然想像大家都很焦慮很焦慮所以NCC的公務員就停擺了這個問題是大家都會覺得不應該讓它發生我知道其實不是你很焦慮我也很焦慮以前監察院曾經有監察委員全部都沒有半個人的記錄那 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
7825.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
7848.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
監察院裡面的業務就全部都停擺所以這個其實我們很不樂意看到啦那也希望說卓院長能夠盡快我知道這不是你決定啦但是卓院長盡快再溝通啦那也希望在野黨真的是為了國家的正常運作那不要再擋了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
7849.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
7870.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
因為現在有很多民間 事實上有很多包括宜萍業務 包括其他很多需要委員決定的都卡住了嘛對 沒錯所以這個我們就再一次的鄭重的呼籲啦就是希望左院長盡力溝通 那在野黨真的不要再擋讓我們NCC可以正常的運作好 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
7873.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
7901.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
那之前其實我有跟那個NCC也質詢過就是網路媒體剛剛星淳也問了嘛就有很多這一種詐騙那這一種新聞的自律那NCC也也訂了網路的使用的指引嘛那現在就是網路的他們也有一些自律的聯盟對 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
7903.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
7925.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
那再來就是說AI應用的新聞也越來越多了嘛所以年輕人在寫新聞有些時候就直接用AI來寫嘛那這個的審核機制或者是指引主委你們NCC的看法是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
7925.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
7955.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
是跟委員報告分兩大區塊傳統媒體部分上次跟委員報告過說我們委託製作會那個已經跟業者跟專家學者都已經溝通過那業者自己國際工會也好電視學會也好他們都提出自己的版本那我們近期也會再開再找電信業者來再對接一下雙方的一些共識希望這個傳統廣電的部分的AI指引能夠進一步優化 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
7956.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
7975.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
至於網路上的部分我們網傳辦這邊大概預計要提出五個指引就是當初就是比照這個當初DSA那些印法那國內目前這個當初訴訟法比較沒有辦法推社會各界沒有共識的情況之下我們用軟法處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
7976.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
7992.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
五個指引裡頭去年推出的申訴救濟跟透明度的指引那另外一個OTT還有這個法規適用的指引這些東西往陸續還有相關一些透明度大概陸續今年明年都會提出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
7993.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8009.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
那AI的部分AI的應用部分我們最主要是要讓民眾還有讓業者都能夠持續的一些進進那正如這個先前也有人提問過說因為AI大概是從前年開始比較爆發性的所以在應用上我們希望這個與時俱進在 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8012.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8036.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
在民眾端的素養培力跟業者端的這些部分我們都有持續來投入大概113年從我們網路這一塊的培力的一些宣講宣導也好還有議題的設定都已經有包含這個AI的部分簡單的講啦主委就是說你這個指引前面已經寫了三個那還要到明年嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8037.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8060.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
我們總共預計我們是持續在滾動檢討五個職業裡頭兩個已經去年年底已經推出來了那另外三個部分我們今年預計會起碼會推出至少一個啦那就是包括剛剛跟委員報告所提到的現在AI速度這麼快那使用者這麼多 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8065.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8087.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
AI這一塊因為是統合在我們的其他AI基本法的一些架構下我們有做配合行政所屬機關做一些相關的一些一些協調性的一些處理包括這個該有的執法該的行政規則該納入都納入那我們剛剛跟委員報告過在我們的我的意思是說這樣子速度到明年會不會覺得太慢 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8090.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8108.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
我們會持續在傳統廣電部分我們是已經在優化版本已經出來了那這個至於這個網路媒體的部分在我們其實當初我們去年版本也有一個版本那今年有在台灣這個網路媒體這個這個這個協會的我們請他持續優化這個也會把這個AI從種植到分植裡頭的一些項目裡頭其實他 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8115.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8140.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
本質就是要報導新聞網路新聞一定要以事實為基礎那這一塊的話就是牽涉到事實查證所以最基本的概念就是該標示就要標示你講這個我們都知道啦現在我們就希望說不要等到明年啦因為這個指引你趕快定出來讓那個所有的業者有一個方向可選那這個你先把這個當方向定出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8142.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8165.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
這個還要等到明年我覺得現在才四月傳統媒體部分我們一定今年會定改因為我們大概是下個月就會再跟業者在第二次開會來對接所以今年部分我們大概應該就下個月開第二次座談會來收斂因為他是開過他們有他自己的意見他們自己提出版本嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8167.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8196.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
網路的這一塊我們有持續在推在目前在網路新聞業者他自己雖然有訂規範有訂指引那我們未來我們這邊在既有原來另外三個指引裡頭如果可以包進去的我們會把它強化啦我們會考量說需不需要再進一步把它獨立出來我們也會一定拿去考量重點就是說你們今下個月會再開公聽會收斂嘛對那收斂這些意見嘛是所以你比如說六七月 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8197.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8221.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
其實這個大家都等很久了啦那我想自律或者是說你沒有辦法用硬法那你至少軟法的方向你先把它指名讓大家就是有一個規則可選嘛所以這個世間還要等太久我是覺得這個真的是不合時宜現在速度這麼快的時代尤其是AI速度更快那你現在都要拖那麼久 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8222.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8244.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
我們是預計在上半年就是7月底以前會把他對呀 你看7月31搞不好以後就沒有委員啦但是該做的我們常理委員會持續努力所以是不是在7月31以前就趕快把它做完好 我們朝著目標來努力好吧 最後一個我簡單要求啦就是說那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8245.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8259.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
訊號遮蔽器這個已經有業者違規那我想你們也有負責說要表示開罰所以他們也有撤除但是這個太多了 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8260.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8283.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
這個我想很多到的網路去買都有買得到那是不是這個部分我們要怎麼樣去防範蔚藍那叫你們主動去查可能你們也查不完啦我們有找這個電商平台有跟他們宣導也謝謝數位部他們的那個數產署有幫我們在電商是他們主管有幫忙幫我們宣傳達說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8287.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8308.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
上架的產品裡頭這些是違禁品不得上架我們是盡可能就是不斷的去把不該上架的器材都給他拿掉那事後的部分事後如果有民眾檢舉我們也會去處理所以對你剛講的沒有錯我是建議就是這樣就兩個方向一個方向就是電商 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8309.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8328.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
因為你要去抓抓不完啦但是你用電商當作源頭嘛源頭如何去減少或禁止類似的案件的發生這是第一個第二個就是開放民眾檢舉你們也應該再open宣傳讓民眾知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8328.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8352.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
就這兩個動作我們要做才能夠是減少這樣一個違法的行為所以我是認為宣傳當然這個有案例新聞有播出來當然就會有宣傳的效果啦那電商的源頭的部分我認為你們可以再加強好我們會持續加強就減少這樣子一個不好的行為再繼續發生好不好好沒問題好謝謝好謝謝委員好謝謝許志堅委員的發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8357.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8359.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
謝謝我們主委那我們現在先休息十分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8381.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8382.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
鲍鱼 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8405.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8420.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
謝謝觀賞 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8422.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8423.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
鸡蛋糕 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8450.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8472.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8475.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8476.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
沒有啦 不去打啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8969.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8991.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
好 我們繼續開會 我們現在先處理臨時提案 請議事人員宣讀臨時提案一 鑒於政府機關經營社群媒體的成效良語直接影響政策品質 溝通品質及政府形象不完整之評估機制 同導致社群營運流於形式與資源浪費 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8992.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9012.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
原此要求數位發展部應依照五大共面之衡量指標建構一個政府機關社群服務之營運與檢核機制以完善各機關社群服務之評鑑辦法並請於一個月內向本委員會提出書面報告提案委員黃建豪、邱若驊、魯明哲宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9015.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9027.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
好 請問各位委員跟機關有無意見那一位委員我是提案委員我沒有什麼特別意見想問一下這個現場委員有意見嗎沒有齁 看看機關這邊有沒有要修正文字還是有什麼意見表達市長你來電會議會議先討論之後等一下再出文 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9042.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9050.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
我們先等一下這個機關好沒關係欸張偉那我們這個原則上是在那個12345 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9073.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9091.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
第七行的後面因為數位發展部早於民國106年那時候我們還沒成立所以那時候這一份文件是國家發展委員會所以我們說事實上數發部這邊我們改掉就是國家發展委員會瓜湖目前由數位發展部承接 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9092.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9121.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
然後就是就是數位發展部找剛剛這六個字我們把它刪掉改成國家發展委員會瓜葫目前由數位發展部承接瓜葫這樣那接下來在倒數第三行的部分委員提案建構一個政府機關那我們中間建構一個改善政府機關社群服務之營業與檢核機制然後以完善 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9122.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9150.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
各機關社群服務之平均化這個我們就刪除然後並請一個月內向本委員會提出書面報告這樣那你那整句話你改完之後整句話可以再重複一次對 這如果改的話就是建構一個改善政府政府機關社群服務之營運與檢核機制並請一個月內向本委員會提出書面報告好 謝謝沒有意見那我們就改一個完整的版本這樣好 再麻煩你們好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9152.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9163.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
好 那說明後修正通過那臨時提案處理完畢如果有委員對於上述提案要補簽可以列入紀錄並刊登公報那我們現在繼續進行詢答請陳青龍召委來發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9174.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9188.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
好 謝謝主席那在這裡我來邀請我們NCC的陳代理主委還有我們蘇拉部的林部長好 請陳代理主委跟林部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9189.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9214.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
好 首先我們就直接我們代理主委跟部長早那今天我想我們最重要的針對我們電信管理法的一個修法第36條的修法我相信今天早上我們陳代理主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9214.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9241.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
也回答了我們很多委員的質詢當然我們這個修法的提案那我們也都有了解那在這裡針對外國人的這樣的一個股本跟外國人的持股比例這些要求那我想我在這邊就直接問我們這個陳代理主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9242.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9244.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
我們這邊的態度怎麼樣針對這個修法針對我們對這樣的一個可能對我們的國際通訊的這樣的一個開放我們的態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9258.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9283.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
跟總召報告都是幾點第一點就是現行的條文如果沒有修正其實是可以操作的那如果說針對國家認定國安或者政府部門的需求的話其實可以另行比方說考量跟對方洽談土壁或土基就是government另外特別處理比方說採這個專用電信的話就完全不會適用36條用50條就可以處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9286.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9300.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
第二個意見補充第三個意見補充是那性情的條文跟如果要修正因為要考量這個數據主權跟國安等等我建議我們這邊是建議說還要多聽相關人的意見以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9301.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9326.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
那從我們主委這邊我們談到就是說其實這一部修法目前如果不送吧其實就現有的一個規定現有的條文應該就可以來容許我們這個國際的這樣的一個低軌衛星進入到我們台灣的市場對不對是 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9329.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9348.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
應該沒問題所以目前事實上也有好幾個業者跟我們國內在配合嘛國內業者配合對這總到目前的畫面上所顯示目前都是選現有的條文走進來帶台灣落地的對啊所以基本上有沒有修改條文等於說 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9349.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9374.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
基本上不影響我們現有的國際衛星通訊進入台灣市場那如果依主委剛剛的意思如果有進一步的需要可能要再多聽多了解是不是真正的有這樣的必要對不對好 那我在這裡我們第二頁好不好我要了解的那個我們下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9376.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9387.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
我們也知道目前整個最重要的一個衛星通信系統最主要目前我們一般民眾啊擔心的是詐騙的問題嘛 詐騙的問題那當然對國家來講對我們來講國安的一個風險也是非常重要那今天如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9399.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9415.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
我們對這個微信通信這樣的一個系統就剛剛主委所談我們沒有我們的一個國內我們的業者沒有我們的一個要求完全開放給外國國際進來這樣對整個國安的風險會有一個顯出的一個影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9425.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9452.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
那就這樣我是不是在這邊再請我們主委你針對詐騙跟公安風險這兩個項目你們來做一個說明好不好是跟總裁報告這個詐騙防詐獲的治安部分其實就涉及到說有本國業者參與的情況跟沒有本國業者參與的情況它的效率上的呈現出來就是不太一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9453.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9477.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
這個已經在平台那邊已經發現已經淺現那至於國安這一塊其實它是兩個面向它是互相矛盾的就韌性而言任何低軌衛星特別是這個STARLINK它是韌性最好的但是國安上呢國安上它其實另外一個面向它的第二代它其實可以在台灣它可以不用設Gateway不用設Gateway的話另外國安問題來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9479.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9495.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
因為樹地主權不在我們台灣這邊所以這個會是矛盾的現象那是矛盾 相互矛盾那照片的部分我們從過去的經驗沒有國人的產育我們未來能夠來可控性我們就降低 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9496.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9524.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
所以這一方面也請你們評估那另外這樣的一個修法會不會違反我們電信管理建立自主的一致性我在這邊也提出這樣的一個建議就成如剛剛主委所談我們目前的36條其實就可以來運行那如果為單一的一個廠商如果來 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9526.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9548.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
調整開放那會不會違反電信建立制度的一致性那也會形成我們市場排擠還有我們所謂我們自己電信管理法我們自己所談的公平競爭原則所以我在這裡還是要建議有關於這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9551.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9576.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
最近管理法36條是否修正了真的還要更加的審慎多以評估那也要保障我們通訊的主權這樣一定要去做到審慎的把關完善的配搭而能降低我們剛剛談的不管是詐騙不管是國安這樣都能夠把風險來降低好 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9578.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9594.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
那在這裡我要再提一個另外一個主題就是我們現在我們有很多的一個民眾大家感受到非常困擾的就是偷拍偷拍這個狀況我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9598.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9622.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
目前還想在網路搜尋成為一個關鍵字那透過真空攝影機來進行偷拍我們從今年從2月到現在我們已經有好幾個案子是涉瑞數目的案件那我們民眾在我們政府的公共政策網路的參與平台也提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9623.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9652.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
希望就真孔攝影機啊能夠來做源頭的管理那這個真孔攝影機啊我們一般業者都標榜齁它是經過我們NCC的審核尤其在我們網路平台在販售齁在平台在販售就是說經過我們NCC的審核這個合格那就變成合格 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9653.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9674.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
就合法然後這個偷拍的風險就全民來承擔那我想說我們在審查這個是怎麼去審查NCC怎麼去審查是跟總統報告真孔攝影機大概分兩大類一個是無線一個是有線無線部分他會利用這個攝影頻率去傳 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9676.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9691.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
那這一塊就有NCC的角色NCC在管啊對不對那如果是有限部分那個是屬於一般商品一般商品的話即便是無限的話一般商品大概經濟部的BSMI就是標準檢驗局那邊也會有一些處理那如果源頭上要管制 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9691.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9717.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
假設說全台灣有公司說這類產品就不要再製造了那恐怕就是相關這個商品的主管機關他如果取得說我想不要把主管機關推到經濟部就覺得有色品的部分還是在我們這邊那網路平台現在在販賣在購買非常的方便 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9717.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9737.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
我想我們速發部這邊也針對網路平台這邊的販售我想今天在這邊提出來是希望我們包括NCC包括我們速發部能夠針對這樣的一個無限的真空攝影機這樣在平台的 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9740.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9767.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
這個方便的購買放售那也看到了我們審查合格既然我們有審議有審查我們應該是不是兩個部會啊做一些探討討論來檢討我們現在的制度可能不能就來反映民意來溯源來管理啊這個部分我想說請我們代理組委跟部長這邊做一些研究好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9768.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9775.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
沒有問題 我們會找相關部會來討論說原來如何來處理好 以上謝謝 謝謝兩位 謝謝謝謝總召好 謝謝我們陳慶隆總召的發言 謝謝我們部長安主委接下來請陳雪生委員發言好 謝謝趙委員 是不是請 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9810.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9825.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
陳書偉請陳書偉請問一下那個衛星廣播電視法第五條第五十條一百一十五年一月三十日通過了這個行政案公布了沒有?復署了沒有?行政案沒有復署沒有復署 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9827.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9855.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
沒有附屬那現在有限電視這個咧如果通過了也不附屬的話你們準備怎麼處理啊因為不附屬的後續的效果的效果部分我們因為權責不在於我們都尊重啦但是我相信如果說個案上發生在未廣法的情況未必會發生在有廣法跟無廣法這個政治領域下的專業 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9857.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9874.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
你們這破壞了整個法規體系啊你們沒有辦法嗎你通過委員會你們自己有委員會啊對不對復屬不復屬全職不在NCCNCC這邊比較沒有辦法來處理你們怎麼應對這樣呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9876.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9902.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
那如果就今天這個召委排的案子的部分我們基本上是支持我們的意見是說要跟衛廣法當初三讀通過版本一致的就是我們是支持這方面的方向來處理不是我們審的幹什麼你審了好半天行政院不復甦你審的也是白審的啊浪費那麼多人力在這邊跟委員報告如果是純粹就黨政界這一塊的條例修正我相信應該共識度滿高的應該不會發生這種情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9907.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9923.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
所以我問你,49台是不是新聞台?目前是請教說綠的還是藍的?還是白的?以NCE的立場,NCE不分藍綠,就是說看看有沒有違規來處理不分藍綠齁來,我來隨便找一個你們的誰?綜合國家處你做什麼回答?49台是藍的還是綠的? |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9936.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9961.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
他一直罵國民黨罵民進黨,你就看得出來那邊是誰的嘛,你沒看電視嗎?你們NCC如果不看電視的話你們還NCC喔?是藍的還綠的?還?評論嘛罵,他沒有講過哪一台的好話沒有不認為說他是藍或是綠我這樣喔?我過去看一下醫生好不好?你整個神經麻木啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9964.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9975.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
那個國小國中小孩都聽得懂啊你聽不懂啊公務員保持行政中立那我們是...那梁處長咧?你看49台是哪一台?是綠的還是藍的?呃...報告委員我家沒有有線電視所以我...喔你家沒有,好那你請坐平台,平台事業處詹處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9990.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10013.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
是綠還藍的五十台好了啦五十台好啦民視啦,民視哪一台是藍還是綠的我們其實都尊重每個電視台自己的那個立場好你請坐啦,不為難你們了你也不敢回答是不是,主任委員不敢回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10014.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10021.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
黨政軍退出媒體我來立法院十幾年了國民黨執政的時候民進黨要求黨政軍退出媒體現在黨政軍全力的介入媒體49、50、51、52、53沒有講過國民黨一句好話的 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10041.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10068.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
趙少康那台TVBS也沒講過綠的一句好話的這個有什麼關係嘛白是白黑是黑你被顛倒跟搞核能一樣不搞核能的時候你搞核電的話台灣會怎麼樣怎麼樣你聽聽看好不好所以前幾年吳宗憲委員在總諮詢的時候他也不要做院長上台 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10069.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10093.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
他直接講了五分鐘啊 騙啊不要啦 不好吧你們NCC有沒有超然獨立大聲一點講 有沒有超然獨立目前我們都有目前我擔任委員之後相信過往的委員也是依法行政前幾年李昶祖密到我辦公室來 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10094.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10123.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
英俊挺拔年輕有為現在這個頭髮你看看什麼頭皮膚也孬了歲數也大了你經過藍綠委員的洗禮我真的很同情你謝謝委員我真的也不要給你太多壓力你審議上我也不曉得怎麼辦要把你刪掉又不給你做事對不對給你錢嘛你又在那邊胡搞瞎搞我預算很少是大部分的零頭不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10124.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10139.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
你怎麼超然獨立法,你講嘛113年投訴案件有多少件,你講投訴案件投訴案件新聞喔新聞有112年你們罰了有5件,罰了260萬廣告的呢?廣告多少件? |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10148.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10160.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
廣告罰了一千零二十萬,一百一十二年,一百一十三年不見了,沒有監督了嗎?沒處理了?沒處理了?都處理了,有有都有圖表這裏面有沒有處理? |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10162.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10180.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
就是有些要上委員會的沒辦法處理其他大概有些是很明確的比方說酒類超時不該的時段來播送酒類廣告那些我們都有處理投訴什麼意思嘛投訴以後到你們那裡就石沉大海四個字我們都有在處理就是照有些是處理多久了 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10182.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10195.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
多元意見的比方說他有沒有違反事實查證這些東西要上委員會的你不要跟那個昨天我質詢那個運銷那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10214.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10234.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
欸 多久了跟委員報告 其實我們的程序說一個吊帶 一個請業者打阿福園有涉違反事實的請業者提他臨委會然後上我們諮詢會議 然後上委員會議有些配上委員會 剛剛跟委員報告過比方說他酒列時段播出不對的話 我們就直接裁罰了有些上委員會的設計在對面你沒裁罰啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10235.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10254.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
你沒裁發你媒體監管你要公平公正嘛對不對是你沒有啊你根本沒辦啊這哪個單位辦的舉手來請舉手不是沒辦都有都有都有就是委員心目中的A顏色跟B顏色的台其實都有被罰過 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10256.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10280.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
主委啊你們做理事吧真的啊前面講打詐你打詐又沒做是不是你又沒監督媒體你又沒監督還有260萬還有1000萬罰一罰不管多或少總算也罰了一點你把中間再把他幹掉中間現在也開會也通過了你們來個不附屬我覺得我們立法院在幹什麼也不曉得你們在幹什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10282.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10308.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
你們平常在那邊沒有沒有就是剛因為報告過了有些在上委員會之前的程序我們都有同仁都持續在進行該上諮詢會都有在處理就是我主委啊是國家的政事啊政務啊我們要正常的運轉你知道嗎不要大家在那邊打混啦你知道嗎我們都可以在一個無政府狀態是不是不要是一個無政府狀態這樣有問題不好啦好不好好 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10310.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10335.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
你們媒體監督這個很多,你去弄一弄,看看找個時間找個誰給我回報一下好,沒有問題既然我一直盯上了嘛,總要總起來啊,看看怎麼回事啊,好不好?是,好好,最後一個問題問你一下那個誰?是林部長嗎?是海嵐海嵐是你這邊還是? |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10337.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10342.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
兩邊都有,都是疊加的,CI部分是初步我再跟你講台馬3號海嵐,障礙 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10347.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10365.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
大陸一條漁船飄到我們東宇來東宇的船來去求救大陸就來了一個救援船這個救援船我想是應該經過許可才能夠進入我們的港區進來以後一定刮到海嵐海嵐3號然後海嵐3號發出警告訊號 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10368.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10385.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
警告信號一定通知海巡說有不明船隻來了現在海覽誰去碰他就是國安法三個字不是告訴哪一段是國安法那這樣很奇怪海巡跑去碰這條船 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10387.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10408.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
這是個救援船,跟紅石智慧一樣你現在把他抓起來了,你不放他回去,你就放在我們這裡問地檢署,地檢署說你們沒告,不告不理海巡說我只是你們通知我把船固定在那裡剩下就是你們開會 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10410.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10438.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
你們開會一個禮拜過去 兩個禮拜過去 三個禮拜過去欸 人家這個救援船很貴的啊是 我完全理解是 那個 委員水師這裡面是什麼問題呢有法律的問題嗎是 那個 跟委員報告這件事情我們會請就是各個單位我們去協調加快處理我說這個狀況就好像是高速公路上發生一個車禍結果兩照雙方就把車子停在路中間結果後面的車子都堵住了什麼事情都不用做那就趕快我們該蒐證的就蒐證該那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10441.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10460.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
那個測試的就測試然後趕快就讓大家不管是那個救援船那個他回去做他的事情然後趕快去進行修復然後後面的法律的這些事情我們再來走這個程序不要讓所有事情卡在那個地方救援船來救他救他要跟你碰壺一下救援船要賠錢嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10462.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10488.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
這個事情抱歉那個是不是請任信司司長來來市長劉市長謝謝委員長期關注那根據我們現在掌握的狀況是航港局預計在4月24號就會開會那開會以後會確認他新的這個施工計畫呢是不是符合規定如果符合規定的方式去施工的話那雙方都不會提告就因為中華電力也不會提告但如果他沒有按照新的施工計畫去施工的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10489.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10514.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
後面可能就韓港局跟中華電信都會追究其行政的處罰跟賠償責任,你上報告這個叫什麼家衰啊,國語家衰有沒有,國語是不是叫家衰我救援團關我什麼事啊我跑去救他,然後我還去賠償什麼等一下來個幾千萬,不曉得一億兩億的,這什麼意思啊一個救護車我要去救人嘛對不對,兩趟發生車禍我去救 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10516.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10536.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
我救護車去,發生車禍的事情還想我救護車把人家撞了,或是撞傷致死或是幹什麼的,救護車責任還更大。現在國安法碰到海海的問題又扯到國安法了,到底是不是國安法? |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10537.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10565.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
真的很困擾欸你們趕快把這個事情釐清好不好因為這個救援船真的費用很高啊我知道那個了解委員的意思就是說這個法律的事情當然是交給法院去處理但是我們這個速發部現在就趕快去溝通想辦法讓這個事情趕快該修復我們現在最重要的是趕快把海馬三號這個海欄把它修復然後那個救援船就是讓它能去繼續去做營業因為那個之前委員提到三號這個據我了解是蠻輕微的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10567.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10593.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
滿清委但是這裡面有責任你能夠放人家回去趕快放人家回去吧我們趕快去聯絡協調你們動作快一點因為我覺得底下基層的部門他也做不了主你們在上面的長官稍微用點心好不好你講一講一句話給他一個民視的方向好做好不好謝謝好謝謝謝謝好謝謝召委好謝謝陳景深委員的發言接下來我們請徐富奎委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10607.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10631.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
謝主席有請恩熙熙陳代理主委來請陳代理主委大家好主委好主委我想今天是針對這個電信三法的一個修正的一個草案的討論那當然這個我們回顧台灣的一個民主化的一個歷程黨政軍退出媒體不應該只是一個口號 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10631.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10661.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
那但是今天看到我們在野黨提出的這幾個修正案雖然打著接軌國際行政變靡的一個旗號那實際上面我們看到是在鬆動我們國家的一個防線甚至模糊我們黨政軍跟媒體的一個界線那這樣子站在NCC的角度我想我們的未來的發展不能是犧牲我們民主任性做一個代價也不能讓我們的關鍵通訊基礎建設跟公共論壇的一個空間缺乏一個嚴格的監理那所以我想主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10662.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10680.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
針對這樣子今天在黨提出的修正案將我們的處罰對象從媒體事業改成投資人那在事務上面對於市場上廣大的一個投資人NCC是不是有足夠的一個查核能力或行政手段可以來做一個進行一個裁處請諸位回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10681.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10709.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
是跟我們報告這一部分分成兩個區塊第一個是衛星頻道部分第二個區塊是有線電視的部分有線電視的部分我們大概去年在修衛廣法的時候我們大概有請同仁去跟業者來檢視盤整盤點過有線電視的部分以目前衛廣法的那個條文的部分是可以處理的都沒有超過1%間接投資都沒有超過1% |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10710.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10739.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
那衛廣頻道的部分就我們當初手上有當初違反黨証券被裁罰的案件來盤點過也沒有超過1%但是進一步去盤點正在申請的去年有通過衛廣法64條那他類頻道的一些購物台是有一家是超過1%但是其他的其他部分大概都還是在1%以內所以衛廣法通過的那1%其實是相對已經是可以處理到 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10740.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10767.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
完滿整的就是應該是可以處理啦那因為關係超過1%納價業者我們也跟他溝通過他未來應該是還是有方法可以去處理的主委當然我想這個針對這樣的1%的一個門檻那你們是不是有進行過一個產業的影響評估會不會對於我們整個這個我們的整個市場甚至這個整個發展上面會有受到一個很大的一個瓶頸 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10769.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10771.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
基本上我們也有評估過說這條紅線劃過去之後對業者衝擊還有對這個研究市場的一些影響那因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10781.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10807.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
去年底後今年年初在討論衛廣法的時候其實有其他委員也有提供相關的意見比方說上市公司這個一趴的股東其實相對都很大所以我們大概這一塊當初畫一趴這個紅線是有多方面的考量那這一部分的影響評估其實在當時在處理衛廣法的條文的時候已經有一定的程度的一些投入 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10809.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10838.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
主委我想本席我們也認為我們任何的一個法案修正都必須建立在確保新聞自由跟國土這個韌性的基礎上面不能去犧牲我們台灣民主最珍貴的一個輿論的一個淨土那這第二個部分我想還是要請主委帶主委來幫忙雖然你們的任期到七月底結束那剛剛我看你幾個委員在討論這個事情主委如果七月底之後真的都沒有補人NCC會不會關門大吉 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10839.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10857.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
我們不希望這種情況發生但是到四月底提名的還有八天我們相信行政院應該會處理我們相信各界業界也好大家都不希望這種情況發生我們希望這種情況我認為這種情況應該不會發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10859.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10881.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
那另外我想我在委員會也多次有請主委幫忙針對這個高抗災基地台的一個設置那前陣子我想買包我們蘇衛部的林部長也有給我們很正面的一個回應那但是我們的很多的鄉鎮公所也有提包了一些地點那但是我們現在服務處這邊也接到很多鄉鎮的陳情對我們一般基地台的建置還有一些安全的一些疑慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10882.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10909.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
那甚至會有一些抗爭的狀況那我想未來對於這個NCC要改善這個區域通信的部分當然這會面臨到兩難的一個困境我們又要通訊品質但是有些鄉親不願意設置就會造成有些地方通訊上的一個困境那主委NCC在跟電信業者對於這個機器台設置的部分是不是有針對這個選址的一個考量還有對於人體的部分是有做相關的一個評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10910.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10935.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
是的 有 其實在我們那一些執法也有規範比方說高中以下不能設然後離一般住宅一定公尺看到公寓大小一定公尺裡面也不能設這些都有在考量在內 也有規範這個從電信總局以來都已經這種規範那剛剛委員提到重點是因為機台沒有程度是個閒物設施所以我們也提倡鼓勵業者說要使用公家機關的一些基站提供土地 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10936.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10956.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
提供建物來處理那這一塊我們都持續努力目前有800多處的是公家機關提供的地點那針對委員關心的這屏東地區那謝謝委員在之前有提出這個今年2月有提出這個屏東縣有9個鄉鎮還有19個地方的醫學需求我們也找業者來去現場去 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10958.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10985.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
去勘查然後後來也考量既有的地台的調整方向功率方向功率或天線角度之後目前大概今年度還會再增建七個七個基站大概就是霧台一個 佳東一個 獅子鄉一個 仿山一個那林彬會有三個這樣子好 謝謝主委我想這個要加快速度最好能夠在汛期之前能夠把它完成好 主委請回謝謝那我們有請我們蘇衛部林部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10992.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11019.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
委員好 部長去年11月我們有報導這個中國有個高德地圖部長知道這個訊息嗎我知道那您自己本身認為這個甚至國台辦已經把這個什麼我們這個能夠精準精算到台灣紅綠燈的描述跟測到一個資訊表示這個對我們這個整個國人的行蹤居住地甚至社交的一個軌跡有嚴密的監控我想部長對這個有什麼看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11020.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11042.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
這件事情我們非常的關注所以我們有去做一些那個分析跟了解那目前我們知道的狀況是說高德地圖裡面的關於台灣的地圖資料不是他們自己收集不是他們自己建的他們是跟荷蘭一家叫做Heart Technology這家公司去購買的資訊進來然後再來是他們紅玉燈描述的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11044.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11070.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
估計的這個功能它並不是串接台灣交通部或者地方政府的資料庫而是它利用它的使用者的那個在紅綠燈前面等待的狀況它去推估的所以它這個功能它當然是有在宣傳宣傳說很厲害事實上只有說在那種交通比較繁忙的那個紅綠燈入口而且有比較多使用那個高德地圖的這個狀況下它才有辦法推估 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11072.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11084.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
但是我們覺得說最嚴重的事情是什麼就是說依照中國的國家情報法的規定就是說中國境內的組織跟人民都有責任必須支持還有配合 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11088.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11105.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
中國政府的情報工作也就是說這個所有民眾這個上傳的個資都可能會有一天中國政府就是突然講說我要這個資料然後他就直接調取了不像說我們台灣我們個資保護法等等所以我們就速發部現在那個資安署已經在針對這個APP進行那個檢測一旦 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11109.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11122.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
確認說有這些狀況的話我們會第一個我們會那個就是要求所有的公部門就是不能使用高的地圖然後我們也會勸導民眾盡量避免使用高的地圖因為這個資安風險非常的大 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11124.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11153.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
部長那你們有沒有掌握到針對這個APP的部分是不是可以回傳到中國境內的伺服器受益資料目前來瞭解是他這個很多的個資都會傳回中國大陸所以我想包含我們這個總統府還有國安部相關一些我們關鍵的基礎設施聽起來他們都好像有所掌握了甚至透過一些吸收我們一些台灣人作為一些情資收集的一些管道那未來你們有沒有跟陸委會跟國安單位研究怎麼樣嚇阻這樣的一個情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11155.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11183.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
我們有跟陸委會跟國安單位我們都有在討論這件事情那目前的高德地圖它的主要的使用者應該是往來台灣跟中國的這些台商那目前使用的人數還不是很多那我們現在是希望說用那個第一個是用勸導還有其他的一些方式就是降低它的使用量但是我們認為說還不需要去做那個直接的封阻那因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11184.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11199.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
直接的公主有時候我知道最後還是要提醒就是我們未來的這個數位的防衛不應該有這個漏洞是應該再跟外部委員來強化是這應該要積極的努力是好謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝我們許副委員的發言也謝謝部長那接下來我們請邱若驊委員發言好謝謝詹委主席有請NCC陳代理主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11213.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11214.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
好 我們請陳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11222.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11251.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
主委早 主委好主委先和您討論OTT目前OTT串流服務在台灣已具相當的規模了那它的商業模式也從過去單純訂閱現在已經逐步走向多元化那它也正在快速發展中那今天要請教主委相關的風險管理然後還有也跟防範詐騙有關那我們先看到OTT它的平台掌握用戶的帳號還有付款資訊還有使用資料那它以帳號為核心像是使用者的E-mail |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11251.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11267.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
密碼還有付款資訊那常見的狀況是有帳號外流還有盜用共享濫用黑市帳號等這是相關的問題嗎那現在已經發生有假帳號共享還有假訂閱優惠盜用帳號轉賣那想要請教主委要如何來管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11268.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11274.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
是跟我們報告其實ODT的部分我們在111年其實110年5月25期之後通過一個草案對外公佈當時的立法的 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11283.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11309.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
方向大概是說改為行為管制然後當時也有公告說達到一定規模的話必須要來登記然後來可以特別義務那但是方向上還是抓大放小的層級化的一些義務但是當時對社會各界包括業者包括是您講的是當時的OTD轉發嗎那我這邊請教主委您認為它是什麼樣的服務型態我們當時是想要管的那現在它是什麼樣的服務型態呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11309.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11335.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
他還是架構在internet上頭的一些這個主要是以PG都是專業型的一些內容產出的一些東西所以他算是類電信嗎對沒錯他算是類電信嗎因為他跟電信服務一樣他提供通訊的傳輸還有傳送訊號那可是他在法律上明確又是不一樣的嗎跟OTD目前他不能被歸在電信管理法沒有錯吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11337.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11344.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
國內的法制是這樣但國外有些南韓國家其實他是有些是用電信來的那這邊請主委說明目前針對治安的問題有沒有最低標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11345.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11371.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
治安部分嗎對 治安的部分治安部分 治安社會 相關治安總局官但是OTT的部分我們會我們近期會其他的營運的管理部分我們會提出一個軟法的指引來出因為它現在是不受電信監理可是它有類似電信的使用者的規範還有影響它影響層面非常廣那現在因為它也確實它用戶規模很大它也涉及帳號還有資料那它也會影響公共利益 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11371.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11399.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
所以我想要請教主委目前我剛剛有請教我們有沒有明確的保護法像這都有可能造成各自外線還要衍生詐騙的問題那要如何來管誰來管跟委員報告即便他現在沒有一個完整一個compact的一個作用法但是其他網路上的各個行為之對應的相關主管機關比方說剛剛委員提到了他消保問題之消保法其實一樣可以處理他的各自假設出了一些問題一樣可以處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11401.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11428.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
現前一些個案部分其實就有個資法的一些適用我們MGC這邊當時也有直接去處理所以目前資安的風險是可以由個資法來做管管嗎個資部分其實是有個資法的規範那對沒錯那我剛剛也提到因為它目前平台正在快速的變化中那像是Netflix還有HBO Plus它目前也導向也有導入廣告那面對這樣廣告的風險因為它也會存在著它過去是純訂閱那現在它有廣告加上訂閱 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11429.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11437.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
那很可能會有第三方的廣告出現在這個平台上面那其中的它的內容還有它的導流風險誰來做管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11438.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11462.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
如果他廣告涉及到一些跟詐騙有關其實現有有一些打造條例其實也有相關的處理那如果涉及到其他的一些這個虛偽不實如果看他涉及到的情況假設他涉及到一些虛偽不實或有相關的一些刑法也好或是其他的一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11462.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11474.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
其他個別的法律都會有一個使用它差別只是說它完整管理它主要管理它營運的這個作用反應所以你剛剛有提到就是ATD專法你們目前ATD專法的進度到哪裡了 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11475.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11500.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
因為我們114年提出過草案當時社會沒有共識所以還是停在草案階段那後來因為NCC委員會沒辦法組成所以現在我們有持續在更新那你們是怎麼樣去管理跟約束業者的基本上就是說我們目前的最後一版本目前手上的那個最新版的這個草案是說是抓大放小 層級化管理達到一定的規模我們會納管 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11502.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11524.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
只是當時在遵循各界意見的時候包括本國業者跟國外業者他們的看法會比較會有一些對立那我們也持續在遵循各界意見所以目前只有草案我們希望可以有更完整的包括平台他必須要負責然後也包含風險管理還有他內容的治理還有因為他必須要對他的平台透明度也要完整的 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11524.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11542.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
對 我很講到重點所以我們目前雖然印法作用法目前沒有辦法處理但是我們用軟法指引我們都會推出 OOTD 的相關的指引那 OOTD 剛剛我們提到的重點透明度的部分不管他是跟客戶民眾的一些申訴救濟透明度這個指引我們在去年已經公佈了 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11543.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11560.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
所以也希望NCC不只是要求業者要自律啦因為當時候的討論111年討論可是到現在他現在已經有廣告他上面已經有廣告了嘛那當時是沒有的嘛所以這個整個整個平台跟過去是不一樣的那這邊也請NCC多加留意我們會與時俱進 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11561.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11576.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
好 謝謝主委 那再來我也有 本席也有結果呈現民眾反映目前國內像是165詐騙還是1925安心專線等公益服務會因為業者不同的關係存在不同的收費門檻然後還有語音提示的差異那NCT這邊有沒有掌握到 有沒有進行討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11577.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11603.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
有其實前幾天這個媒體也有披露他重點就是說目前1651955等等那目前相關機關大概是借借中華電信部分那其他非中華電信的電信業者他必須要去轉借到中華電信那邊去那會有一些接續費的問題那目前因為其他比方說165好了這個遠程台客大他本身也要那這邊本身想要問的是所以你們這邊有沒有召集三大電信業者去討論的呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11604.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11632.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
我們平台住友軍找業者但是相對的做過165的是內政部你們有找業者什麼時候找業者的應該是這禮拜跟上禮拜有在處理然後方向上其實大概是我請這個相關部會也是這禮拜還是上個禮拜因為我這邊了解到目前是還在研議中嘛衛福部然後還有內政部那我這邊想要了解為什麼不是NCC去主動的去找這些業者然後跟其他部會一起共同來討論看能不能制定一個統一的標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11633.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11661.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
跟委員報告這個新聞貸處理的階段我們同仁其實就有跟業者來非正式的去了解溝通那後續會朝向什麼樣的收費呢後續朝向是說相關部會衛福部也好啊我們是指三大業者他們會怎麼樣來去做收費像針對這樣子的公益短馬報告委員那個主要是因為主要這兩個那個特別號碼的主政機關包含內政部警政署的165那 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11663.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11680.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
通常這種東西如果需要供應的話其實三大業者在過去其實以165專線來講它民國94年就配合警政署它第一個它有三大業者有做客服端所以我們現在確實看到它的那個收費標準還是有存在落差嘛那三大電信它的 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11682.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11710.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
他的營收都是破千億所以對社會觀感來說我們是希望可以朝向就是有一個標準的收費門檻或是朝向能不能就是都是免費他們主要那都是免費部分可能因為林郡縣委員辦公室也曾經找討論這個問題那內政部警政署說他同意配合編列預算來支應這部分因為既然你們已經有召開過會議了嗎那也在提供本席辦公室你們的會議記錄我們提供書目資料給委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11711.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11732.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
OK 好 謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝邱若驊委員的發言下一位登記質詢發言的委員黃建豪 趙偉請黃建豪委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11739.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11743.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
好 謝謝主席 主席我們先請數位部林部長請速發部林部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11754.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11781.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
部長早部長我想一開始先討論一下我們剛剛那個臨時提案的部分其實先問一下就是數位部認不認同之前當然剛剛在提案裡面有討論到這個是當年國發發了篇文章介紹各國政府在探討政府部門經營這個粉絲專業這種像社群平台的時候有幾個指標一個是基本資料社群廣度社群互動社群關係跟貼文影音等等這五個構面這樣子的一個概念你們書發部現在認不認同這樣子的一個分類 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11785.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11807.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
是因為這個是基本上是認同的OK是今天會提出來就是因為其實我覺得很多你們應該也有注意到很多民眾也講這件事情就是說其實政府的資訊政府各個各個單位各機關大家都有或是被要求要去有臉書的時候設立臉書有IG的時候設立IG有IG的時候設立IG然後有YOUTUBE的時候設立YOUTUBE |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11808.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11824.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
是所以每個單位至少可能一個最多可能四個到五個社群平台是它的資訊是非常的碎片化是所以對民眾的困擾是說我要找相關資料的時候我可能我不一定能夠馬上找到我要的資訊那對數位部的期待是說你們有沒有機會去解決這個問題因為其實我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11826.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11843.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
進來的公務人員大家經過高考普考進來之後特考進來之後他的本職專長理論上他應該是專注在所謂行政業務上面在各項法令解釋上面所以現在變成是各單位為了去應付說我要有這個社群媒體我要去要求我各單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11844.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11859.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
好一點的可能部裡面一個或是一個團隊那可憐一點的可能一個科一個處裡面一定要一個所謂的新進的人員去擔任所謂數位小編去擔任這個小編的工作就他跟他本來的這個工作的職能是有一定程度的落差那 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11859.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11885.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
更有錢的當然外包嘛去找行銷公司去處理等等那我問說其實數位部有沒有機會去做一個相關的整合把先把盤點一下各單位到底目前有多少的那種所謂的殭屍型的賬號或是沒有沒有根本沒有在互動的或他的他的這個點閱率非常低的這種做一個盤點包含去去做去做去做這樣的整合之後把維護的成本跟人力更集中去做管理你們願意做這個你們可以做 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11886.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11901.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
可以做這件事情嗎謝謝委員提醒我們會我們應該可以做這件事情那也跟委員報告事實上通常因為我是來自於產業界通常產業界會有一些退場機制那就是有一些那個不好的產品或者是不好的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11902.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11928.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
推展狀況不好的網頁都會退場那當然在行政我們在政府部門裡面這個機制就是說會有一些政治上的考量但是我也是認為說應該就像委員所講的有些其實已經關注程度不是那麼高什麼應該有一種就是退場的機制這樣子的話整個環境會比較健全而且對於我們政府單位的公務人員來講他的負擔也不會這麼重 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11929.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11952.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
好 謝謝部長 我希望大家對數位部的期待 當年你們成立的時候當然大家對你們有不同的想像 但是至少這個你們作為這個政府機關 這個政府龐大組織管理數位的這部分應該是大家共同的期待所以我們希望說這部分還是由你們來整合啦 好不好是 謝謝部長留著 繼續我們請那個NCC的陳代理主委一起過來討論這個事情喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11954.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11976.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
我想我們今天這個提出的修法幫電信管理法他們討論到這個衛星發展的問題預算或說各項的這個組織組織單位到底我國這種衛星通訊這個產業發展到底是NCC管呢還是數位部管呢還是太空中心管還是其他單位在管到底誰在管你們兩位可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11978.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11996.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
NCC管制電信事業是提供一般民眾電信服務的衛星業者至於國內衛星的產業發展 比如說它的供應鏈或發射器材或相關的一些東西不在NCC的資產範圍內 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12000.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12025.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
我想委員主要的疑問應該是在於產業推動產業推動分幾個部分第一個就是說台灣事實上在國際的衛星產業鏈裡面佔有非常重要地位很多的產業鏈都在台灣這個部分因為只是提供零組件還有這些component這個是經濟部在管的發展自己的衛星系統是由國科會的TASA |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12026.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12040.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
就是太空中心那邊主管的但是韌性在使用上面等於說速發部這邊負責的主要是要透過使用這些產品來加強台灣的韌性其實是這樣你可以看一下我們先 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12041.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12067.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
不管我們看旁邊兩個日本跟韓國日本當然他們自己是由首相親自擔任宇宙開發戰略本部的部長去做相關的整合工作那韓國呢是開個CASA宇宙航空廳把過去不同的單位做一個整合因為韓國其實跟我們很像韓國以前當然也是分散在各部會裡面有像有一個像NCC的單位有一個像說服單位那現在把它整合起來成為同一個單位那未來我國的這個衛星所謂的衛星發展不管是要 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12067.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12088.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
先待會討論修法的問題但是在這個發展衛星發展的過程裡面有沒有可能做一個整合的一個部會出來還是有一個主責單位因為現在就像剛剛部長所回應的嘛包含主委提到了嘛現在等於這件事情就衛星產業或是所謂太空產業這個事情它事實上在各單位裡面是那包含說預算的部分分配 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12091.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12116.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
有研發有應驗我們監理補助的部分可以跟TASA申請像數化部也可以申請經濟部也可以申請產業升級那管理的時候又是NCC在管理然後再來是驗證的時候TASA要求的是活動安全然後數化部要求的是數位認証跟治安NCC要求的是電磁干擾跟通訊品質所以這個產業在發展的過程裡面他要去驗證他要去申請他跑行政流程的時候他必須跟各單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12116.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12134.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
去討論去磨合然後這個事情會造成什麼結果這個事情當然造成我們產業的發展一定會比別人慢一點點吧因為我要先比如說我可能先看數位部先看ACC的電信管理法我符不符合電信管理法我符合之後來跟數位部討論數位部討論OK之後去找經濟部討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12136.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12147.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
所以在整個流程裡面我們的這個產業就會比別人落後一點所以說在這個整合的工作上面有沒有機會未來不管是數位部或NCC到底誰可以做一個主管的機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12148.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12169.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
跟委員報告了解委員所關切的這個事情但是我們也必須說因為台灣的產業的特性就是做水平的分工全世界只有少數應該就只有一家就是STARLINK它自己發展衛星而且自己發射衛星其他的大部分的公司像說 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12170.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12195.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
Amazon Leo它在發射衛星的時候也是找那個SpaceX就是那個STARLINK的母公司去發射的那在台灣的話這個分工會非常的細譬如說一座那個印刷電路板的做那個module的那基本上台灣大概都是在做這種比較是分工的這個狀況那台灣自己到目前為止並沒有那個專業的衛星發射的公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12196.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12210.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
確實就是說這就是我剛剛提到因為我今天如果假設今天有人想要做今天如果Elon Musk如果在台灣他搞不好也做不出Starlink啦是我們講從預算來看這個現象就是說今天數位部你也編了3878萬要進行這個國際衛星服務商鑰羅地的這個先期研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12215.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12241.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
那NCC呢也編了830萬說要做這個衛星通訊新網路形態的監理政策就是說不管是NCC也好 SWIFT也好大家都希望說去研究怎麼樣讓這些所謂的國際上的這個衛星能夠落地但實際上發生的就是大家都編了預算也都希望做這個事情但實務上發生的就是實務上就是現階段大家要用所謂的衛星呢他必須透過中華電信然後現在也只有Wi-Fi可以正常來使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12242.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12265.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
它沒有辦法像我們剛剛包含說其他委員包含軍線委員和其他委員展示的你去日本或去國外你去Costco你去路邊的商店你就可以直接買到衛星接收設備它可以自己來使用就是台灣什麼時候今天我們提這個所謂電信管理法的修法我們的終極目標或它的期待就是希望說回到電信管理法本身電信管理法第一條你本身就是要鼓勵說 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12267.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12290.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
這個更開放多元的通訊更多的這個競爭的機制讓這個通訊能夠更加的自由可是回到我們今天要所謂修的電信管理法第36條本身就是因為它有很多的限制導致這件事情不會發生我想問一下主委到底現在NC的態度因為你剛剛在回覆其他委員的時候一直跟我 我一直聽我在那邊一直提到一件事情是說你覺得現在不修法我們也可以做到 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12291.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12309.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
修法後本來期待的結果所以沒有修法的必要性目前是不是這個這樣子的政策的發展就是現行的條文36條不修正其實葉子願意來的話其實都不是問題因為其他one web都已經落地了那從 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12313.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12330.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
我們講的個案上的那家公司他雖然在過去數次對外表示說是我們的法規造成他的障礙但是我們在跟美方正式官方的討論像這次討論在ART的時候其實美方沒有這個需求這次公務員報告是確定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12333.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12356.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
主委有時候我覺得我們對話的時候要同一個頻率啦美方不一定有這個需求當然他市場很大他不一定要我這個市場我說美方沒有對台灣反映說你台灣這方面的法規有調適的需求來我們來問一下請問一下數位部數位部部長如果今天你去跟Stalin談他現在是如果他如果他如果今天Elobox如果突然突然認為說他想要進台灣市場他就可以進來了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12357.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12381.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
事實上這個事情是這個答案是部分因為照理說他只要雙看他要不要讓步如果讓步依照現有的法規他那個股權不要超過50%的話他就可以進來可是他們就是很堅持就是說他們希望佔多數的股權那事實上之前我們台灣政府跟那個STAR LINK談判就卡在這個地方所以我們現在就是我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12382.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12400.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
現在也去詢問說STARLINK你到底如果說我們那個法律那個就是可以討論的話可以談的話你有沒有興趣結果那個STARLINK現在給我們的答案事實上是那個也算是蠻特別的他就說因為台灣的那個4G跟5G的人口覆蓋率已經超過99%這上次我們討論過那其他委員也跟你講過這個相關數據了 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12404.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12429.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
是但在你們的報告裡面有提到說包含日本韓國荷蘭菲律賓越南也都是他們也都有相關的限制但他們同時已經開放跟可以使用了是那到底其實核心就是說那如果別的國家他們能夠做到在相關法令限制也符合他們的條件他們也有國安問題你說日本沒有國安問題嗎他們當然也有國安問題大家這麼近所以說在這個限制同樣的情境之下他們到底怎麼去做到開放讓民眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12430.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12448.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
一般民眾他想用的時候他可以這個自由的選擇他需要的他一樣當然可以選擇local可以選擇本地電信沒問題但他如果今天他比如說住在偏鄉或他今天出國他要出外他能夠找他可以自己去買到這個設備那在家裡可以使用或是出國可以使用這樣子的情境在台灣什麼時候才會發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12449.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12465.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
所以這邊跟趙偉補充就是就以韓國好了韓國他能夠落地其實都是出籌碼交換或者前提的一些確保韓國用什麼來交換FTA日本用什麼交換 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12466.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12490.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
他在日本有落地Gateway歐洲國家外資全部開掉用什麼來交換用GDPR確保下的一些Gateway是當地落地以上簡單補充因為Gateway跟本國業者參與其實是互為這個互補的可以讓這個國安的一些國安的確保還有通訊監察治安的部分可以達到實打實的一些掌握 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12491.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12506.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
好 主委這個部分我們希望說我們修法我們努力往這個方向來推動啦但是行政上面你們要怎麼去談判或說你們覺得需要什麼條件我覺得在後續修法的過程裡面我們希望能夠好好的來討論終極的目標說這最後的一個結果我們還是希望說台灣的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12510.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12528.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
通訊市場台灣的這個通訊自由或通訊品質能夠做到至少像國外這樣但是看到我可以自由的交易而不是說現在說到很多法規限制導致沒辦法使用這是我們提這個修法最初的這個初衷希望大家能夠支持以上好不好謝謝謝謝張偉謝謝張偉的支持謝謝好謝謝黃建豪張偉 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12544.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12546.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
好 接下來請耿如君委員發言好 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12564.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12577.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
好 謝謝主席今天安排電信管理法第36條的詢問我們一起來關心台灣的國家通訊網路韌性的問題首先我們有請這個NCC的陳代理主委好 我們請陳代理主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12585.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12608.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
本席先前曾在上個會期總質詢的時候關心行政院所屬的各個部會對於通訊任性的立場不一致的問題直到目前為止NCC主管的電信管理法第36條還是有您剛剛提到的限制設置使用電信資源的公共電信網路者董事長要由中華民國國籍設置使用電信資源的業者 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12609.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12623.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
外國人直接持股總數不得超過49%直接及間接持股總數不得超過60%因此很多的外國衛星公司無法直接向台灣提供服務我覺得我們文字要清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12624.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12640.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
不要一下可以來八成公司的架構可能可以來然後我透過誰來怎麼樣怎麼樣繞兩圈繞三圈我覺得這個我們都不是這樣因為各國已經都做給我們看了我們是最需要網路的國家我想大家都非常的清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12641.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12656.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
那即便這個速發布這個一直提到說強化國家認訊為政策目標數位認訊 通訊認訊但受限於這樣的一個法規其實台灣距離建構多元通訊網路真的還有很長的距離那我們今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12657.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12685.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
看見NCC審查報告我們看見一位英雄本席要感到非常欣慰為什麼呢因為感謝主委支持我們真正的通訊韌性的強化跟發展我們在法律修正案草擬的過程當中我們也不諱言有多次跟NCC的業務單位來進行溝通得到很多建議那NCC您在報告裡面就有提到如果要放寬電信管理法第36條設置使用電信資源之公眾電信網路者的董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12686.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12701.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
國籍和外國人持股比例限制就放寬標準放寬範圍應具體明確這一點本席完全同意本席的修法版本本來就是要賦予主管機關專案核准的權限尊重專業嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12702.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12727.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
如果NCC要以執法來明定董事長的國籍或外國人持股比例的放寬標準或放寬的範圍或者專案的條件本席表示支持那我們再次要謝謝主委在任內勇於承擔讓台灣的國家通信任性真的是要朝向正面積極那我也希望主委請回我這給您鼓勵因為您展現了這樣的一個方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12727.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12733.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
那我相信我們看得到出口那我們先請這個接下來請速發部林一進部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12742.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12759.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
委員好部長好本席聽了4月8號速發部的業務報告的質詢部長當時答覆我們黃建豪召委的質詢提到對速發部對政府來說台灣有越多衛星通訊的選擇越好是這非常的棒是那對於部長的立場本席相當認同 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12760.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12781.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
有越多越大範圍的通信越好你說4G 5G還是有3G收救的問題還是有偏鄉的問題還是有緊急狀況的問題我想本席很認同您的整體概念這其實也是本席和黃建豪召委共同提出個別提出電信管理法第36條修法的目的台灣位處真的很重要的戰略位置 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12782.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12803.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
沒有網路我們沒有辦法經營商業沒有網路無人機很可能在緊急狀況也沒有辦法操控我們沒有辦法理解前線的戰事維持國家的通訊人心真的至關重要我就要問部長正當現在Right this moment本席在質詢部長您的時候部長知道負責我們國家國際和國內通訊的25條海欄當中有幾條是斷線或部分斷線的狀態嗎Right this moment |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12808.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12828.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
網友都很關心你應該要記在心中吧我沒有連線我那個腦子沒有連那個internet所以這個可能要查APP我們是不是請那個任信司司長好 那任信司司長趕快回答25條裡面現在有哪幾條有幾條斷線或部分斷線報委員這應該每天每分鐘都要關心的嘛編那麼多預算來 多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12828.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12849.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
基本上國際海嵐總共是15條國內海嵐是10條所以跟你們報告那昨天我看到資料是7條海嵐現在有故障那其中一個故障的地方是很偏遠在馬來西亞那一端根本不是在台灣這一端但是我們還是把它統計出來沒關係嘛 斷網率多少%28%啦其中斷線最久的多少時間你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12851.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12870.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
包委員244天包委員我們平均在沒關係啦你不要說什麼我們海欄怎麼樣28%的海欄是有問題的然後你說有的很遠我們沒辦法處理沒關係任性很重要嘛國防部印製的小局書就講了大規模的網路癱瘓多數海欄遭破壞這非常危險 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12871.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12899.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
台灣在非戰時期我們就已經有28%的海瀾網路那如果緊急狀態不是更可怕嗎我想速發部主責的通訊人員不是要讓我們遇到這樣的狀況嗎跟委員說明一下那個的確這個我們非常關心但是所謂的那個28%有故障所謂故障並不是全段很多海瀾因為海瀾裡面每一條海瀾裡面都有很多條心不好意思部長我沒有提問啦你不用在這裡替海瀾決斷那怎麼樣半段90分段 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12900.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
12921.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
99分段我們都不要派船那你們預算要不要再重新來討論一下我想不是文字遊戲好不好我想我們有共同的意識把台灣阻礙國際的衛星業者提供服務的法規限制拿掉讓台灣在通訊更多元更廣冒這有其必要性我是在找我們的共通性 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
12922.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
12948.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
非常同意謝謝委員理解我會給你時間就給你時間因為我這個時間很有限那部長本席真的要再次強調衛星通訊服務的市場本來就是一個雙向的選擇我們今天要先把法規的門打開我們不能說美國要叫我們修美國對我們法規有沒有意見我們怎麼可以叫美國對我們的法規有意見呢如果真的有這樣的會議提供資料但沒有關係我想我們是有共識的 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
12949.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
12967.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
提高國外衛星通訊服務來台的意願這一點本來就是我們的責任增加台灣衛星通訊選擇的多元性對於強化台灣的通訊韌性有正面積極的幫助尤其剛剛提到的一些廠商像STARLINK已經開始運行二代衛星 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
12968.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
12994.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
這是目前最先進的通訊網路裡面一定也很多台灣的晶片結果呢我們目前您提到的一些簽約的衛星服務商沒有辦法採用也還沒採用我們不應該也不能用法規來限制住國人使用最新衛星通訊科技的權利我們希望朝野共同支持啦我們剛剛也感謝非常多的委員也都共同跨黨派來支持所以也希望部長我相信我們一起來具體認識一起來往前可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
12995.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13019.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
非常感謝委員長接下來還有一個細節因為這個影響到民眾的權益加一點點時間就是說部長我要來跟你討論速發布的打詐業務本席FB帳號就在前幾天被詐騙集團仿造了一個1比1的帳號來進行詐騙假帳號一字不漏的轉貼我發布的文章極可亂真主動就發邀請給我的朋友還邀請他們加入 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13020.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13039.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
這個我啦 我啦 這個假的我啦所創立的LINE投資群組還先謝謝他一直支持我的法案耶他說 一起建立富裕的社會免費加入投資群組然後呢 我趕快高速的飛奔到一個地方叫做打炸通茶網 為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13040.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13056.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
我們也花了預算結果我有用手機認證才能投案對不對其實你知道我是誰結果完成通報程序以後啪一聲在0.1毫秒的情況之下運作非常順暢的跳出這是低風險的案件還強調會優先處理高風險案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13060.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13072.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
請中低風險案件要耐心等候每一分每一秒我的朋友都在收到這些詐騙訊息叫他要去加入部長本席當時非常確定自己遭到詐騙集團假設帳號結果訴發部的通報啊卻判定低風險案件請問訴發部 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13076.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13098.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
通報的標準是什麼跟委員解釋一下因為這個也是之前有那個立法委員要求我們就是說必須利用AI的技術進行出判有要求很好啊因為這個是AI進行出判那依照我們的系統就是說接下來就會應該跟那個委員的辦公室聯絡然後只要委員這邊那個確定以後那我們後續就可以馬上處理了 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13099.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13121.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
您回去聽一下你的直播啦我想黃仁勳被騙要打給黃仁勳葛如君被騙要打給葛如君我都已經報案者是本人我已經提供我的手機了我甚至已經知道你是我知道我是誰了我想這裡有精進的空間AI模型不要自己立刻亂用完全同意AI模型有精進的空間還告訴民眾詐騙案件是屬於 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13123.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13141.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
低風險沒有這個就是AI我人講的完全沒錯就是因為AI的模型的判斷一定會有一些誤差所以我們還是需要人工來判斷這一點是我們都同意的會做事的人找辦法不會做事的人找理由找理由就說AI有問題完全同意我想不是這樣不是我們現在耐心處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13142.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13161.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
那結果現在如果很多人都遇到這樣的問題持續的造成損失我的朋友說不定都加入這些群組啊只要委員趕快回覆說這個是真的是詐騙那這個就是我已經報案了我已經報了什麼叫做我回覆你仔細說清楚什麼叫做我回覆你這個APP還有額外回覆功能嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13163.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13192.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
就是有人報案以後我們會跟那個當事人做確認嘛對不對那如果是這樣的話那會後我們再把那個委員再加入沒關係我先跟部長講啦沒有什麼回不回覆所以這個AI要提升好不好這個服務要提升本席被創立假帳號的案件因為向訴發部求助無效啦我沒有無效啦現在你再跟我求助我現在馬上就處理我是國會議員我可以在這裡向你求助 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13192.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13211.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
台灣千千百百萬個受到這個問題的人怎麼辦網站通報查詢網網站通報查詢網就被你弄到低風險不要再玩文字遊戲了每一分每一秒上三月份的詐騙金額是多少一個月詐騙金額是多少你有沒有刻在心裡嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13214.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13239.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
有沒有刻在心裡49億台幣啊因為整個一點多隻獨角獸每一個月所以不要在這裡玩我們已經討論了將近兩年了對嘛 那有沒有改進有啊 當然有改進啊有改進 改出了一個功能叫做AID風險沒有關係 我再問請教部長你認為政府官網上是不是應該存在下列內容色情文字與圖片髒話 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13241.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13256.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
詐騙集團的LINE ID廣告文件文字詐騙集團廣告文字民眾被盜的身份證民眾的個資這些應不應該出現應不應該出現不應該出現是很遺憾喔部長我們從第一天來到這裡跟您講 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13258.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13273.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
網詐通查網要好好的請部長通查一下這是網詐通查網的圖片我不好意思唸出來你要不要唸出來網詐通查政府部門的官方網站這是不是掛在Moda的官網底下是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13274.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13283.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
部長回答是不是跟委員報告一下網站通查網的網頁是不是不在資訊上也有別的委員本委員會的那個委員之前是還是不是這個是網站通報查詢網的網頁內容沒有錯啊對嘛所以你要不要 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13293.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13313.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
我們不要念字了啦 這個字有點小啦因為在這個會席有其他委員跟部門的問題就是說為什麼我們把這個訊息提醒民眾知道說有這個風險不堪入目的文字我真的不好意思念出來字有點小我這不念出來啦 大家看網路的直播啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13314.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13342.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
LINE ID詐騙集團LINE ID在剛剛網站上對還是不對我們就是告訴我們這個網頁的目的就是要告訴民眾這是不對的這是詐騙那幹嘛要秀出ID我們就要告訴人家說這個ID是有問題的啊不然呢那我剛剛已經問您了嘛那好啊那把詐騙集團的廣告文字全部放上來把廣告詐騙集團的資料好那各自呢各自呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13343.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13350.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
假冒民眾的身份證 各自所以不要 真的不要再這個我想我們是一模一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13352.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13376.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
我還把他各自的人全部都在網站通查網該打蒙的圖片就要打蒙該去除的文字內容就去除我已經講了 您剛剛也講了我現在講的所有內容我都是一年前都提出過模糊處理很難嗎有沒有這個技術這需要AI嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13377.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13390.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
不需要嘛所以沒關係啊維持網路安全的環境我們一起由速發部做起所以部長你剛剛也同委承諾打炸通茶網何時可以完成改善我們一直在改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13391.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13410.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
那你如果說要定一個時間改善那是不是那個時間之後我就不改善了嗎不是吧我是持續在改善啊我一直要往改善如果說定了一個期限反而變成說我那個期限之後我就要再持續改善您回憶一下您剛剛講的這句話是您給全國的師生做了最壞的示範你叫我交作業 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13412.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13434.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
那我現在如果教我告訴你我什麼時候教了我以後就不用教作業了嗎我完全原話喔所以不是我們不要玩文字遊戲我們都當過學生也當過老師所以什麼時候可以提出嘛什麼時候可以我還尊重您耶什麼時候可以提出改善我每個月都要提出改善如果要的話那我剛剛提出的問題您也說不應該存在的問題什麼時候會改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13440.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13454.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
我想委員你也是AI的專家AI一定有False Positive跟False Negative的問題我剛剛講的不雅的文字不雅的 不對的 爛ID有問題的圖片 色情的東西這個不用AI喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13455.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13482.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
對 但是我們這個量這麼大你知道我們委員我們每天接收到多少的量如果說每一件我們都是用人工去檢查的話那你這樣會累死我們的人而且會讓我們整個打詐的系統癱瘓掉所以我們為什麼要用AI就是為什麼要用自動化方式處理就是因為我們要避免我們的打詐的系統被人家癱瘓因為這個詐騙集團他們也知道這個事情事實上所有的犯罪都是會用這一招想辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13482.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13497.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
部長 主席已經站起來了我們都是技術人爛ID可不可以用RACX來處理是對嘛圖片有不雅的 有人臉的我可不可以打懵這需要什麼很高強的AI嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13499.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13518.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
好 葛委員我們好不好所以我想部長我們互相尊重我們也尊重我們也尊重昭偉好不好您現在沒有辦法答應時間我再給您最後一句話的回覆有沒有辦法三個月內半年我們剛剛提了三個月內我們一定會有一些改善很好是好 謝謝我們謝謝部長有一件事謝謝昭偉謝謝好 謝謝葛委員發言也謝謝部長接下來我們請楊瓊英委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13540.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13545.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
謝謝主席 楊協發言 邀請NCC好 請NCC陳代主委主委好我們114年的調查報告當中呢也就是說依賴家用電話的民眾已經降到2%那單純使用手機的手勢突破了5成達到了52.6那顯示市化功能正在快速 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13569.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13598.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
被這個行動通訊來取代那尤其到16歲到25歲的年輕族群完全不會去使用家用電話的比例已經高達74.8%26到35歲也達到了72.5%這代表什麼呢代表台灣通訊使用已經出現了明顯的世代落差那年輕人全面的這個手機化高齡者卻仍留在這個世化的一個時代 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13599.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13624.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
那在這樣子的一個情況之下呢我們又看到高齡者他還是依賴高度的依賴這個室內電話因為他也怕說這個手機沒電他也怕說收訊部這個不穩或者是緊急狀態的時候他沒有備月備緩的這個通訊那在這樣的一個情況之下呢我要請教主委室外電話持續在下降 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13625.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13642.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
那高齡者卻是高度的依賴的這個情況呢那政府也應當要照顧高齡的這個通訊需求所以我們針對於未來市化的網路跟公共通訊的資源你要怎麼樣去調和跟整合 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13645.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13662.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
社化是屬於過往部分過往其實本來是一個國家電信的最基礎最根基的然後其實在國安上過往本身也有行網沒有的好處行網其實打仗的時候又發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13663.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13689.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
對方發動電子戰 行網大概也掛掉 過往是有它的好處所以剛剛問人提到說 市化的使用年輕族群大概越來越少 這個是全世界趨勢是典範轉移 這個無可避免但是在照顧使用市化的既有的族群裡頭特別是等於中高年齡以上的部分那針對這部分我們從好幾方面來處理 第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13689.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13717.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
如果一般在房價上那目前的市化的一些語音警示的部分國際的話都已經做了那未來這個不顯號部分中華電信已經在我們要求下下個月就會開始來推動主委你談到這裡我們就直接切入第二題的一個討論也就是在3月25號的時候NCC推動的隱藏號碼來電語音的一個警示中華電信他率先先進行來示範 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13719.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13736.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
那在預估下個月三大電信業者也會全面的來導入那市化的部分是安排在六月份的時候來跟進那你指示出我們這個中華電信失敗以來我們看到了成效 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13736.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13739.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
因為業者告訴我們說已經主動這個斷話4萬筆主動斷話4萬筆那對於長者的這個高風險族群尤其是長者最怕就聽到電話就被詐騙的那請教主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13753.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13775.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
高齡的是最依賴在事化的這個部分也是最容易被騙的這個族群那為什麼會擺在六月份是不是六月份會不會執行之呢因為現在這個詐騙的這個橫行到讓人民非常非常的恐懼跟恐慌尤其長者我們要怎麼樣好好保護他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13776.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13793.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
所以本校請教 既然中華電信它示範的是有效的那我們在試劃的部分到底什麼時候會真正的來落實呢好 跟委員報告這個試劃部分我們跟中華電信要求的結果他們是零二分一定會上路 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13793.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13815.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
一定會上路我個人也是希望我們可以好好的去宣導一下讓這些長者知道隱藏的電話他就是有危機了那麼我們又做了這樣的動作可以更圍堵這些詐騙集團這些詐騙的這個案件對不對對 所以這邊我們也非常謝謝中華電信配合 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13816.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
13840.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
透過各方的管道趕快好好去推廣接下來本席要跟你我個人跟你討論的就是說AI生成影片那它的聲音它的圖片快速普及這些技術變化的非常的這個深化那所以因此在媒體使用AI素材的比例也持續的在升高 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
13841.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
13854.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
那目前外界所最擔心的是什麼呢是用了AI卻沒有揭露那導致觀眾不知道分辨不知如何分辨到底是哪個是真的畫面 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
13856.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
13882.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
哪些是深層的這個內容所以 安心心你在3月25號的時候有承諾以延益廣電媒體AI應用的指引 是不是啊是 各位報告這部分我們已經跟業者專家兩輪了 業者一輪了我們下禮拜就會找業者第二輪預計這個5月底前會收斂會來處理那剛剛我們提到第二個重點如果傳統的廣電媒體 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
13884.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
13910.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
使用這AI沒有標識造成民眾誤導的話其實過往華視就發生過我們也處罰他這個沒有事實查核沒有影響公共秩序罰他兩張50萬的處分兩張50萬的這個處分那所以你現在第一輪的一個討論是包含了查核機制揭露跟標識 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
13913.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
13935.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
但是如果僅此如此 那是屬於什麼 行政指導有沒有強制力 請教他的反應是在未廣法 住院法裡頭如果他是超越了違反事實查證的部分一樣構成未廣法或無廣法的一些違法構成要件 一樣會被裁罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
13936.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
13962.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
一樣會被參訪因為大家深怕如果只是一個行政指導沒有強制力的時候那會變成出現標示不一致它的規範寬鬆甚至導致在整個處理的過程當中它是模糊的一個狀態那反而會讓AI內容成為資訊戰跟假訊息的一個新破口對 我很講到重點就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
13964.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
13979.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
虛擬報導他最大的重點是要要符合事實要事實查證這一塊他的影片來源不管是AI生成或非AI生成只要他成就了這個有違反事實查證的部分一樣會被裁罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
13980.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
14000.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
一樣會被裁罰所以我們也有一個建議那主委你來這個討論看看是不是規劃後續你納入這個憑鑒換照跟裁罰的這個依據那這樣子是不是他的強制力越輸入會更強其實我們的憑鑒換照本來就會考量他過往換照前的前一次憑鑒以來的裁罰紀錄這個也會被包進去 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
14009.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
14033.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
因為剛剛在討論的時候詐騙是現在全國人民非常的不安剛剛說到的數字今年度一月份觀光這個通報的被詐的就一萬多件他的資金啊顯性出來是70億以上每一個月都是雙位數而且都在增加我們相關部會都會持續來努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
14034.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14050.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
所以這個部分一定要把關 非常的重要沒有問題 我們要緊急把關 謝謝委員好 謝謝我們楊瓊英委員的發言也感謝我們陳代理主委我們接下來請張宏祿委員張宏祿 張宏祿不在接下來請翁曉琳委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14059.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14066.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
謝謝主席 那麼我這邊請陳重樹代理主委好 我們請陳主委你好 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14072.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14097.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
是陳代理主委你好NCC委員會議其實從113年12月1號因為人數不足停擺到現在那麼根據你們去年年底所發布的資料到目前那個時候已經積壓了489件是需要委員會審議的案件我想請教到目前為止又增加了多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14099.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14114.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
這個被羈押的案件就是沒有辦法繼續審理的案件到目前為止已經累計了有多少件是跟我們報告614件就有614件了那大致上是什麼樣類型的案件呢最大宗是董金氏經理人變更223件然後換照案有154件 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14118.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14126.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
好那麼其實這些蠻重要的董監事的變更還有換照案如果說董監事媒體業者的董監事無法變更的話那變成這個也會影響到整個業者的運作對他的經營運作那針對這個問題的話就是還有換照案要也是那麼目前AC的做法基本上是都是發函叫業者 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14139.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14155.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
如果涉及到換照的話就是基於公共利益繼續撥出這是特殊時期的變通做法那針對董建市的變更案呢你們也是一樣嗎還是說就是准許他們自己先變更了沒有因為很多公司法登記需要主管機關同意之後他們才能變更 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14156.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14180.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
那所以變得像這樣一個情況之下的話其實NCC委員禁訴補齊是非常重要的一件事吧是沒錯那針對NCC的這個委員的這個補齊這件事情我不知道現在NCC包含您在內有沒有就是去函給行政院長或是不斷的提醒行政院長要趕快補提名因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14182.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14203.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
就是你們現在三位委員到7月31號就要任期屆滿那之後可能NCC就會出現完全沒有委員的狀況是變成一個空殼子跟我們報告其實我們都有透過相關管道比方說跟NCC的政委啊或者相關院長辦公室的一些重要幹部幕僚都有反映過依照NCC組織法第四條的規定其實只要是 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14211.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14238.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
NCC委員的出缺沒有達足的時候行政院長就應該在三個月內補足提名的這個是依法行政院長就應該要做的事情可是我們看到現在卓榮泰他就完全藐視法律然後該提名也不提名而且呢這個問題很嚴重就像剛剛講他涉及到媒體業者他的經營運作他董建是無法變更還有涉及到換照的問題所以目前的情況之下就是你們容許這些業者在 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14238.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14265.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
沒有得到正式合法執照那繼續營運嗎就是不得已的法律未定狀態下的大家要求取最大公義的一些方式所以你們現在還有進行相關處罰案件嗎有明確違法比方說酒類廣告不應該在不應該在開拍之前播出的話我們都照法覆您剛剛有講到這個之前曾經針對華視他的AI的影片因為可能沒有揭露訊息說你們處罰他50萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14267.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14292.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
有做成這個處分嗎那個是七個委員時代做的是七個委員時代所以是更早的時候做的不是現在這三個委員時代做的那麼本席是認為說這個希望NCC還是要趕快去催催卓榮泰他既然當行政院長他就必須有這個義務責任要去補足提名那麼這個前一段時間NCC才剛慶祝20週年的週年慶 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14297.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14305.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
我現在真的很擔心這NCC會不會就此消滅在卓榮泰的手上如果說沒有委員在即時補足的話那接下來我們的預算法案是要由誰來出面呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14315.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14343.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
這問題很嚴重的對不對在第一波的提名然後第二波的提名就算第一波提名是因為他們後來中間又撤回了嘛也錯了也很久第二波提名就算是不通過要趕快再提出第三波的這個名單我不知道現在行政院是都找不到適合的人嗎台灣的這個通訊傳播法律經濟人才記記這總統他是都找不到適合的人來擔任NCC委員嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14344.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14372.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
我真的很擔心因為畢竟本席陳晶也是NCC委員我不希望看到NCC就此消滅或是說以後乾脆就把NCC又拆回到又走回20年前的回頭路以後部分的處事就移到速發部或是部分的處事就移到交通部是不是要回到過去的時代呢獨立機關它有它的存在價值當然人很重要你沒有人這個機關就無法運作 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14374.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14400.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
更何況我們剛剛講的他衍生很多的相關的這個NCC的發照處分等這些問題這也非常就是影響整個廣電媒體業者的權利勝據所以本席今天希望就是陳主委您回去之後還是盡速的趕快的最好是能夠面見卓榮泰告訴他這個問題的嚴重好 我盡可能努力好 以上謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14404.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14427.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
好謝謝翁小林委員的發言也謝謝陳主委接下來請葉元之委員發言好謝謝主席麻煩請那個NCC代理主委好我們請陳代理主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14432.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14452.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
葉委員好戴主委我是想要來瞭解一下NCC沒委員會怎樣剛剛你有提到沒有委員所以導致於很多家電視台或媒體沒辦法換照對不對是還有一些董事沒有辦法換人嗎對不對對還有一些相關那個立法執法也好 法律也好都沒辦法推出NCC的版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14453.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14472.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
沒辦法推出NCE版本因為你剛剛提到的像換照換照我是覺得還好啦沒換照也不會怎麼樣反正這些媒體假設他有違法的話比如說播出一些法律不允許的那你就罰他嘛對不對本席其實主張根本不用換照啦裁罰部分如果動不動就要換照的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14473.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14490.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
那就會出現你們之前隨便把一些批評政府的電台關掉的狀況沒換照還好啦反正他有違法你就罰他透過法律來約束然後董建市是屬於比較屬於公司治理有沒有一些是跟民生比較有關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14491.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14516.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
有關就比方說有線電視的頻道頻道的上下架變更因為車子要營運計畫營運計畫也是委員會保留事項也需要由委員會組成才能處理那個代理主我跟您請教一下因為我記得那個時候有在前一兩年前面一位主委被問到說如果NCC委員沒過半會怎樣他是講說iPhone 15沒辦法上市 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14517.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14545.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
但現在iPhone15不但上市了iPhone17都上市了各位報告那是七個委員時代最後要他們四個委員要畢業前就是要結束任期前把訂定一個授權的執法讓這個比較省著空間比較小的部分不是組織法九條二項六款裡頭的這個經營權的登上邊跟處分的部分給他授權來處理所以換句話說就是有一些是技術性的問題嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14546.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14572.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
他不是說非怎麼樣啦就是可以解決的嘛但是那時候他為了恐嚇大家就說15沒有上市可是後來還是上市啦所以其實是有辦法解決啊可是他不去講那個辦法但他就跟你講說沒辦法上市所以國人會覺得NCC為什麼都在亂講話他明明就上市啦他講話的當下納稅執法授權辦法所以他有一些作為是可以讓他上市他不去講那個作為他就直接說無法上市結果後來上市就打臉NCC嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14573.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14599.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
所以我覺得這也就是NCC為什麼你去看很多民調大家對NCC的滿意度都很低就是很多類似的原因累積起來的所以順為代理主委我覺得你們也有責任要捍衛你們自己機關的榮譽感就是不要讓一般民眾覺得說NCC好像有跟沒有好像沒什麼差別那我現在想要跟你請教現在委員的狀況有三種第一種是全部都有 滿了 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14600.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14614.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
然後有過半的這個當然就是什麼都可以運作嘛第二種情況是大概就像你們現在這樣只有三個沒過半所以有些事情你剛剛有提到是沒辦法做第三種最慘的情況很可能會發生因為包括您在內 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14615.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14630.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
好像任期也到七月就到期了嘛對 我們目前剩下的三位任期全部到今年七月全部到期然後呢 行政院長卓榮泰院長到現在還是吊兒啷噹的我看有其他委員問他說NC委員要不要提他說 我努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14631.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14651.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
他說我努力他不是說我確定可以他說我努力所以到時候提不出來他就說我努力不夠或是我努力也辦不到就是他連一個決心都沒有所以很有可能出現一個狀況是七月以後NC沒委員那請教一下七月以後NC沒委員和現在有三位委員差別在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14651.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14680.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
差別在剛剛委員所提到這個當初有授權的部分那些很多很多比較相對於省酌空間比較小的一些裁員案都不能處理像是進口器材啊 設明器材啊 終端設備那些進口包括iPhone等等之類就是完全沒有委員的情況連剛剛講的那些比較吐息吐民眾的部分大概都都沒辦法處理就會痛了所以你看你看我們這個你有跟卓榮泰院長講這件事嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
14681.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
14710.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
你有跟他講嗎他有沒有像我剛剛問你一樣問過你說有三位委員跟沒有委員的差別他有問過你這件事嗎任何本人是沒有沒有你看他不在乎啊如果他在乎就會問了啊無論怎麼樣起碼提三個過來嘛對不對你提了三個起碼可以維持現在的運作啊然後連三個都沒有你如果過三個或過一個是不是就跟都沒有不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
14711.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
14722.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
0跟0.1還是有差別有差別嘛對不對所以他連1個都不提提1個還是有差也都不提我覺得等一下回去之後你是不是跟行政院講一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
14723.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
14741.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
就是說現在院長感覺你吊啷噹的但是七個有七個的運作方式三個有三個運作方式但都沒有的話連你剛剛講什麼無線攝頻這些都沒有辦法處理了嘛沒錯嘛是這影響很大是不是請他最起碼提個提一部分出來好不好你跟他講這個是嚴重性 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
14742.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
14765.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
你跟他講一下這個嚴重性啊 戴主委好不好 等一下結束之後就跟他講一下好 我盡可能好 然後再來問一下因為在去年NCC那時候有引發一個750之亂嘛那針對一些就是二類的射頻器材都說要繳750塊的規費那四月份發生事然後後來因為那個規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
14768.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
14779.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
那個委員會說要求改成核備改成審查所以就給他推翻了可是按照NCC的規劃其實你們去年四月的時候你們是想要停政一年而已啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
14780.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
14808.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
換句話說停政一年到現在一年已經過你們還有可能會做出這樣的事嗎絕對不會跟委員報告其實那個執法修因為大院這邊有做一些處理所以原來我們修的那個已經失效了就是等於說回到前一版就是沒有修的情況所以也不會再提了因為我看你們去年是說停政一年感覺上好像一年後你們還想要再越越遇事不會不會所以現在就是完全都不會完全都不會做這個事回到前一版 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
14809.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
14822.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
OK那剛剛我跟你講那個記者要跟院長講就說起碼要三個嘛或兩個一個也好你不能一個都沒有你要跟他講這個很重要有機會的話我來跟你們我們有機會你是歌員耶好 謝謝好 謝謝偉 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
14826.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
14841.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
好 謝謝葉遠之委員的發言 謝謝我們陳主委接下來請鍾嘉斌委員發言 周耀明不在接下來請林倩琦委員 林倩琦不在接下來請蘇清泉委員 蘇念泉蘇清泉不在請林楚瑩委員 林楚瑩不在 接下來請游浩委員發言謝謝早委 那有請NCC主委好 我們請陳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
14860.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
14880.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
主委好那延續剛才院之委員以及萬美委員還有翁曉琳委員所提到那目前的話因為即將要在4月30號的話其實總統院長他就應該要提出這個人選名單那其實這個主委您有被徵詢過是不是就是後面會持續嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
14882.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
14906.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
目前目前沒有沒有嘛那剛才其實葉元志委員有提到三位跟林其實在你剛才所回應的部分其實還是有所差別那其實本席也是一樣的立場跟建議其實還是要請主委能夠跟卓院長提一下那也希望說後兩週的部分如果有排相關的一個包括備詢的時候還可以說一下就是卓院長的一個回覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
14906.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
14927.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
因為其實畢竟這個時間上是有限必須要提名單那這個名單的部分也不能夠急救張甚至也因為這樣子用情熱式的方式 左院長提的名單如果他不是是一個社會各界可以接受的一個名單的話那其實再也當然還是必須要嚴格的來去看這些人選是不是正確的 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
14928.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
14950.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
那同樣的如果今天這些名單的人選他是在社會各界大家評估起來是覺得一個公正還有專業還有客觀合理的部分我相信其實在野黨也會有民眾他們的期待還有希望能夠通過嘛那最主要是看這個人選是不是適合啊所以我覺得其實今天在野的監督其實是代表著民意的監督 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
14951.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
14977.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
那我相信其實主委一樣可以跟左院長反映說其實我們也期待他提出的名單但是同樣的在這裡也要做出呼籲就是這個名單的人選啦他還其實還是要讓社會各界是可以接受因為在之前來講有些人選不被接受不管他的政治立場偏頗或者是包括他在許多的一個媒體或者是電視的話他有特定立場那所以說那時候是有這些問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
14979.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
14994.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
所以那時候採名單沒有過那所以重新再提的名單總是希望是亮眼同時是社會各界的話都可以接受因為也有許多的委員的提名是在野黨也是支持那所以說也請主委把這些話也帶給院長好不好是好沒問題OK好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
14995.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
15011.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
那剛才我就接了我們建豪委員跟葛羅街委員提的這個提案那其實我們是都表達支持那同樣的在這個低軌衛星的部分那其實現在來講它的外資比例那它其實回頭來講是在一個主權的問題主權的比例 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
15012.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
15039.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
那在這個放寬之後還投資進來但是控制權的如何能夠掌握那這個部分我想請教一下主委因為其實低軌衛星的話它不僅是一般的電信服務它同時它是暫時的時候取代這個台藍的通訊命脈還齋實的是唯一可指揮鏈的一個基礎設施那像目前的這個比例上那要如何來確保這個關鍵時刻的話訊號一樣是能夠給台灣使用還有這個是政府決定嗎還是到時候會回到他們比例的董事會來決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
15041.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
15061.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
是 跟委員報告大概從幾個方面來講假設今天郵駕國外的第一國衛星在台灣落地那台灣發生比較特別的緊急時刻他衛星訊號假設他跟本國月子沒有合作他突然中斷發生類似之前烏克蘭的情況一樣的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
15063.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
15089.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
那種情況就變成說他在台灣落地本身就已經是要接受本國的一些相關作用法的規範他違反我們這個定性管理法會有一些相關的處罰的機制那如果他跟本國業者有合作那本國業者跟他必須要簽有私契約的關係比如說你的信號供應必須要不中斷或什麼之類他違反會有私契約上的一些責任問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
15090.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
15107.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
那對公部門對作用法會有一個處理那跟回到委員所講的如果特別時期那因為目前其他電信事業必須要遵必須要服有法遵事項什麼法遵事項動員就是相關動員緊急動員相關一些規範相關動員的時候其實就會有排這個priority就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
15110.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
15130.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
軍警指揮體系會優先使用那種層次的部分的流量的一些控管會在那邊處理那種情況之下也是一種法尊會做一個處理那同樣的就是也就剛才主委所提那因為如果說暫時不能用的通訊那就不是備援那就變成是換取了 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
15130.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
15154.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
那在目前國際間的話有些低軌衛星的一個服務它存在著實務上是限制軍事用途跟保留服務的種子權還有一系列的政策來調整它的服務區域那像剛才有所提到的除了這個罰款依照合約的這個部分那到底有沒有辦法確保還在暫時的時候這個低軌衛星的使用我們還能夠保有這個指揮權跟控制權 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
15155.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
15177.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
這些都是事前假設某一家已經在台灣落地落地前我們給他照給他平均使用序格的時候就要講好這個條件白紙黑字寫好甚至於做成付款等等之類的那這個部分除了白紙黑字寫好還除了罰款之外還有其他有拘束力的做法嗎拘束力做法就是對相關作用法的規範你違反東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
15179.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
15202.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
因為坦白講一件事就是他們這些科技的一個做衛星的這些大型的國際企業來講他們是不一定怕罰款他們有時候他們這種企業再去影響戰爭的這種控制的話其實是超乎一個國家的對這就是委員所講的這重點就任性而言他是絕對一等一大家毫無疑問他是任性最好 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
15203.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
15217.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
數據主權這個操控的這個就不完全是對等的這必須要一併考量那目前來講的話這個部分會朝向就是多元的方式來看這個外資的這個廠商或企業嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
15219.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
15242.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
目前就是說已經來台灣落地的其實他都用現行的法令來進來台灣的那未來如果說要多元來發展甚至於說我跟委員報告就其他國家亞洲國家也好有些是外資完全拿掉的其實他背後都有一些籌碼或前提的籌碼的交換或前提的到位來確保比方說韓國韓國是用什麼來交換FTA |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
15245.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
15269.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
貿易FTA來交換他外資排掉日本用什麼交換就是他用他的那個在日本落地所以他樹立主權他可以實打實的掌控所以說我們也不希望我們是用發芽馬鈴薯來交換但是最主要的話是說那像這樣子相關的一個溝通跟協調的過程中就是軍方或國防部有沒有參與到低軌彗星如果開放外資的討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
15271.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
15297.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
相關的場合是有在討論那是外部會議是正式的會議嗎是沒錯是沒錯喔好沒關係我後面再追那最後還是回頭來講我們希望說像這樣子第一委會已經是涉及到不管是暫時的任性以及暫時的任性那希望他能夠嚴格被把關現在審查的時候不要留意刑事審查因為這種的話已經是有種接近於是國安的一個外包 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
15297.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
15321.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
那所以說在這個外包的過程中還如果外資的進入能夠像葛禄君委員所言是提升他的技術跟他的能量甚至提他的防衛韌性的話那當然我們一定是給予支持但是如果說控制權的話我們的國安命脈是掌握在其他的跨國企業身上的話那其實在這個部分我們都還是要嚴格把關那同樣的在NCC在審查的部分還是請主委這邊能夠確實能夠落實 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
15323.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
15345.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
相關的這些會議以及說在這個合約上的這個部分盡可能也可以讓民眾安心是沒問題所以我們建議說這個案子還是多多聽取多方利害關係人的意見讓大家有個共識說如果是一定要選擇就沒有100分沒有100分的情況下我們必須要做一個取捨的話也讓社會上有個共識OK好謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝尤浩偉的發言謝謝我們主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
15353.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
15374.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
接下來請蔡議委員發言 蔡議員蔡議委員不在登記諮詢委員均已發言完畢我們做以下決定報告及詢答完畢委員諮詢中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答覆部分請國家通訊傳播委員會以及速發部及相關機關盡速以書面答覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
15377.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
15401.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
針對本日會議討論事項一至三的個案我們並作以下決議均另定期繼續審查接下來與討論事項四預算解凍案無關的行政機關可以先離席現在我們處理討論事項四預算解凍案第三案我們先請議事人員宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
15404.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
15432.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
討論事項四處理一百一十四年度中央政府總預算附屬單位預算關於國家通訊傳播委員會主管預算凍結案計三案國家通訊傳播委員會函減送通訊傳播監督管理基金一至三一新增決議第四項服務費用之推展費預算凍結十分之一案二新增決議第五項服務費用之推展費預算凍結二分之一案三新增決議第八項網際網路傳播計畫向下媒體政策及業務宣導費 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
15433.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
15454.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
預算凍結20%案 宣讀完畢好 宣讀完畢個案 請問各位委員有沒有意見好 沒有意見 我們做一下決議討論事項四 個案均同意動之 我們提報院會本次會議結束 散會 |